LILLE - Le Grand Stade (50,186) - EURO 2016 [Archive] - Page 10

michał_

December 21st, 2011, 01:19 PM

Let's for a moment not question SA's 3rd world status. Now name one stadium of the world cup that was built on schedule. And no, Cape Town Stadium was not. It was still built only 6 months before the World Cup which is not FIFA's deadline, though it was acceptable

According to God aka Wikipedia:
Construction of the Cape Town Stadium, located on the Green Point Common, began in March 2007. In 33 months
Cape Town Stadium was officially handed over to the City of Cape Town on schedule on 14 December 2009

Right, I forgot Wiki is always the answer. So if it says that Fratton Park is 100,000 (and it does, or at least did yesterday), you'll believe it? And schedule does not mean the INITIAL schedule presented to FIFA. For comparison - the stadium in Gdansk, Poland was delivered almost on schedule, but this was an updated schedule, that prolonged construction for another 6 months. So that is still a delay compared to the primary schedule. The Warsaw National Stadium was delivered on schedule (theoretically) in November 2011, but that is still a delay of half a year compared to primary plans. All the mentioned grounds were delivered 6 months before the tournaments (at best! works in Warsaw are ongoing). While the Lille stadium will be ready several years (!) before Euro 2016. And you have a problem with that, because....???

Axelferis

December 21st, 2011, 01:42 PM

Captured renders from 3d visit:

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/2267/virtualaerial.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/88/virtualaerial.jpg/)

opened roof
http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/7210/virtualcoupe.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/856/virtualcoupe.jpg/)

closed roof:
http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/8175/virtualroofclosed.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/854/virtualroofclosed.jpg/)

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/2167/virtualroofclosed2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/641/virtualroofclosed2.jpg/)

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/983/virtualcoupe2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/208/virtualcoupe2.jpg/)

http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/7308/virtualcoupe3.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/802/virtualcoupe3.jpg/)

VIP spaces (not 100% finished by 3D modelization)

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/1537/virtualloges.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/84/virtualloges.jpg/)

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/5508/virtualloges2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/710/virtualloges2.jpg/)

http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/1706/virtualloges3.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/828/virtualloges3.jpg/)

parcdesprinces

December 21st, 2011, 02:11 PM

http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/9729/sigesn.jpg

Whatever the color, I hope they'll choose folding seats and not the same crappy bucket seats as we can see in almost all french stadiums.

Axelferis

December 21st, 2011, 02:15 PM

i won't be surprised with this stadium & company if they chose the worst one :ohno:

Except lyon stade des lumières which is made by a great and specialized cabinet in stadiums (populous), France doesn't know to realize correctly a stadium from A to Z :bash:

www.sercan.de

December 21st, 2011, 03:50 PM

You have to ask the company.

At TTA the company wanted one of those seats
http://i942.photobucket.com/albums/ad268/attarena/koltuklar/DSCF3548.jpg
http://i942.photobucket.com/albums/ad268/attarena/koltuklar/DSCF3552.jpg

Fans protested. We do not get the ones we wanted, but still better :)

But the seats at the bench are bad
http://i942.photobucket.com/albums/ad268/attarena/OCAK_2011/8ocak-varyap/36.jpg

The old ones at Ali Sami Yen were better
http://i51.tinypic.com/16h93t4.jpg

Axelferis

December 21st, 2011, 05:14 PM

oh seats in TT arena for bench are not that bad i like them.

But trust me for the seats in tribunes i think it's dead definitively.

People here seem don't care and i won't engage a fight for this city :ohno:

The stadiums will be like this and people when they'll make shots will realize how poor it is.

Especially architect pics we'll see in magazines and papers.

It's the reality here because people use to attend matches in crap venues (stadium+grimonprez) then they don"t care of colour of seats.

I won't use the term of "sheeps" :D

www.sercan.de

December 21st, 2011, 06:16 PM

Believe me the situation was the same here.
So many people said "Sercan, why? Seats are seats."

I arrange via e-mails a meeting between Galatasaray SK and Allinaz Arena seta designer. But the prices were to high.

playolive

December 23rd, 2011, 06:32 PM

some pics from the facebook

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.289523597757617.65236.272499799459997&type=1

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/402924_297458283630815_272499799459997_859229_2031929150_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/386003_297458430297467_272499799459997_859230_144318377_n.jpg

playolive

December 23rd, 2011, 10:05 PM

some pics from http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ligue1/lille-grand-stade-lille-metropole-t24-8085.html?sid=54f4f9809db9f56ea62bfa2ee3a039c3

Thks to rappha59

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/8647

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/8646

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/8645

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/8643

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/8642

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/8641

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/8637

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/8636

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/8635

playolive

December 25th, 2011, 03:12 PM

merry christhmas ;)

Laurence2011

December 25th, 2011, 11:03 PM

merry christhmas ;)

merry christmas, am little bit drunk, good :)

playolive

December 27th, 2011, 02:52 PM

My panoramics pics from april 210 to december 2011

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/3593/panoavril.jpg

http://img815.imageshack.us/img815/300/panojuin.jpg

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/5948/panojuillet.jpg

http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/1954/panoa.jpg

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/8356/panooctobre.jpg

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/5884/panota.jpg

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/3862/panodecembre2.png

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/2569/st835861stitch.jpg

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/7785/st835949stitch.jpg

mars 2011
http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/8901/panomars2.jpg

avril 2011
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/8920/panoavril11.jpg

juillet 2011
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/3153/panojuillety.jpg

Août 2011
http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/4903/panolille1aout11.jpg

septembre 2011
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/2194/p10305352.jpg

Octobre 2011
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/9018/panolille1221011.jpg

novembre 2011
http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/2851/panolille1.jpg

decembre 2011
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/4233/p1040338z.jpg

final report
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/4417/lille20111225221112.jpg

playolive

December 27th, 2011, 02:54 PM

11 juin :
http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/7442/p1020378sch.jpg

19 juillet
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/2663/p1020605sch.jpg

19 Août
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/6064/panodevantaout11.jpg

24 septembre
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/4375/p1030545sch.jpg

22 octobre
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/9426/panodevant221011.jpg

25 novembre
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/2893/panodevant.jpg

26 décembre
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/8163/p1040322stitch.jpg

final report
http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/8151/lille20111225220012.jpg

playolive

December 27th, 2011, 02:55 PM

11 juin
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/7545/p1020386m.jpg

19 juillet
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/6412/p1020611n.jpg

19 Août
http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/5471/p1030339.jpg

24 septembre
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/9937/p1030547fw.jpg

22 octobre
http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/7264/p1030692g.jpg

25 novembre
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/9700/panodevant2.jpg

26 décembre
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4415/p1040329k.jpg

final report
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/605/lille20111226161819g.jpg

playolive

January 6th, 2012, 03:11 PM

new pics from https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.289523597757617.65236.272499799459997&type=1

official facebook of this stadium

and from http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ligue1/lille-grand-stade-lille-metropole-t24-8340.html thks to rappha

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/407228_305040236205953_272499799459997_887482_283594678_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/391913_305040296205947_272499799459997_887483_2140472671_n.jpg

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/8876

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/8875

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/8873

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/8872

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/8870

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/8868

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/8867

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/8865

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/8863

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/8862

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/8879

playolive

January 9th, 2012, 04:58 PM

just 2 movies

QTOvTXUC8vw&feature=channe

SEA5KPRtCvU&feature=channe

playolive

January 10th, 2012, 07:16 PM

nobody is interested in this stadium ? I don't understand ...

yet there to pics every week.

RMB2007

January 10th, 2012, 07:20 PM

^^ The Lille stadium fanboy that is Axelferis scared everyone off!

playolive

January 10th, 2012, 07:31 PM

But no me, with my many pics , no ?

This the lille's stadium not of axel, so talk about this stadium...

Slam321

January 10th, 2012, 07:51 PM

michał_

January 10th, 2012, 08:33 PM

I'm like Playolive I don't understand, that's one of the best new arena in construction and there is no reaction. Maybe, that's because the LOSC is not yet a "big" club. Not a big recognition yet there are great players like Hazard, Cole or Sow.

You have a thread of 115 pages. For God's sake, what did you expect? :)

Slam321

January 10th, 2012, 11:01 PM

Yes but only 15 pages since 6 months, no real discussion and we're at the end of the project.

Marsupalami

January 10th, 2012, 11:25 PM

Axel is bombastic, and frankly this stadium is meh I'll be glad for photo's though!

robbery4774

January 10th, 2012, 11:59 PM

Yes but only 15 pages since 6 months, no real discussion and we're at the end of the project.

Ok i will start. Lille is a small club with an average attendance of 16.900 but also because of the small stadion (18.000). Also ligue 1 lost a lot of attraction so i think a 50.000 for Lille is crazy!!!

30.000 would have been enough i guess.
Now you have your discussion :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:

Slam321

January 11th, 2012, 12:32 AM

b5254

January 11th, 2012, 01:51 AM

I'm like Playolive I don't understand, that's one of the best new arena in construction and there is no reaction. Maybe, that's because the LOSC is not yet a "big" club. Not a big recognition yet there are great players like Hazard, Cole or Sow.
Not many people cares about Lille. That's the truth.

And I also think the arena will become interesting when you start to see how the solution with the pitch etc. will work out. Then this thread will boost.

WesTexas

January 11th, 2012, 01:55 AM

I like seeing pictures of it but of course, Axel has forced the "THIS IS BETTER THAN ANYTHING IN THE WORLD!!!" theme down our throat. Many dont want to post in here because that troll will jump all over you and take up 5 pages arguing with him self.

ManoWar99

January 11th, 2012, 10:39 AM

boring stadium plus crazy frenchmens (lille supporters) = 116 pages :))

rmsg

January 11th, 2012, 11:46 AM

New pictures?

Axelferis

January 11th, 2012, 11:49 AM

1/ I think people wait to see the stadium running for real. We 're too far from the final version to make a true judgment. Things have considerably progressed but all cranes and works don't allow to have the right vision of stadium

2/ Lille has not the same visibility that club like marseille,lyon,Paris. it needs to win & win to maintain a reputation. They work for this but with the new PSG it will be hard to stay on TOP 3 which will be dedicated to OM,OL & PSG for sure in the next 5 years.

3/ the stadium itself is great despite terrible mistakes (seats coulour,opened concourses :ohno: ) . The fact it won't have appealing aspects like changing colours like allianz which give a true identity of the venue (red for losc matches, blue for French national team of football and rugby, white for concerts & spectacles...) Not the main aspects but importants when you want a identity.

4/ for the ones who criticize me i 've changed my signature since a long time...Then no excuse that i am a "provocateur" toward you.

And frankly(trust me) i am very less enthusiastic for this project than before. Some aspects have disapointed me a lot. Plus since i visited Wembley which took my heart as the best venue in Europe and certainly in the world, i don't have the same feeling now for Lille new one.

Wembley represent what i like. Lille is good & innovative but it doesn't take my heart anymore :mad:

Very good project but not the best (yes i admit it!)

AshVentini

January 11th, 2012, 12:52 PM

It did have some potential to be an interesting project....But when i see seats like that... they will kill any goodness with cheap cost cutting?

Maybe this is becoming an experiment vs a project?

Time will tell.

robbery4774

January 11th, 2012, 04:29 PM

Great, I'm happy, a discusion :lol:

First, Lille is perhaps a small club in Europe (what's the definition of small?), but in France, more and more, it represents the future of Ligue 1, an offensive game, greatest of infrastructure (Stadium + Training center), young and promising players...
For the 50,000 seats, That's sure, it's a bet, but some things prove that's not delirious:
- actual stadium is still full ( in reality, the stadium has less than 18,000 seats)
- for the moment there is 16,000 subscribers for next season(they plan to have between 25,000 and 30,000 subscribers).
- prices of seats are very accessible

We can plan 35,000 persons for parties against "little" teams and 50,000 against PSG, Marseille or Lyon.

Ok we will see. i think this stadium is way too big. And i think it's crazy to build such a big stadium for 2,3 games in year.
Even when 30.000 will come and visit it will look empty and the atmosphere will lack because of it. With a smaller stadium the atmosphere would be much better and people would enjoy more to come back visiting the stadium.

Look at Benfica, Porto and especially Sporting. These 3 clubs have one of the most beatiful stadiums in the word but they can't fill it besides in some special games of the year (derby, cl...)
And i guess french league isn't much morea attractive than portuguese. And also i don't think Lille will play international every year and have such a big support.
Look at Juventus they are record seria-A club first in seria a right now but can't fill their brand new and great stadium. (41.000=>37.000)

playolive

January 11th, 2012, 04:50 PM

this stadium has builded not only fot football match. It's for the football + arena+ and shows. If lille had built a football stadium 100% it would be for 35/40000 spectators. this stadium was chosen by politicians not by the club. And its use is multiple. So 50,000 is a lot for football but great for versatility.

and a movie from http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ligue1/lille-grand-stade-lille-metropole-t24-8460.html

thanks to jessemarcel

cHyoYfh5-Zo&list=UUlcQpor6ZUn21rauDI7wAVQ&index=1&feature=plcp

Axelferis

January 11th, 2012, 05:05 PM

50000 seats is the good number!

below that impossible to organize at least a 1/4 final during euro 2016!

Lille is able to fill 50k for "big" Ligue 1 matches the 3-> Lyon,Paris,Marseille + the possible last match of each season around april & may for a decisive place or the title.

For Champions league match all would been "sold out" on the basis of each attendance in the past for this competition.(SDF,Bollaert,Villeneuve d'Ascq)

50k is the good choice. I would have chosen 52k because we know that 2000-3000k seats are not sold for security reasons

hseugut

January 11th, 2012, 06:13 PM

The stadium looks good but the roof's beams are a little bit too proiminent to my opinion

robbery4774

January 11th, 2012, 06:13 PM

WesTexas

January 11th, 2012, 06:40 PM

This project has kind of lost its luster since we first saw all the original renderings.

Slam321

January 11th, 2012, 08:31 PM

Ok we will see. i think this stadium is way too big. And i think it's crazy to build such a big stadium for 2,3 games in year.
Even when 30.000 will come and visit it will look empty and the atmosphere will lack because of it. With a smaller stadium the atmosphere would be much better and people would enjoy more to come back visiting the stadium.

Look at Benfica, Porto and especially Sporting. These 3 clubs have one of the most beatiful stadiums in the word but they can't fill it besides in some special games of the year (derby, cl...)
And i guess french league isn't much morea attractive than portuguese. And also i don't think Lille will play international every year and have such a big support.
Look at Juventus they are record seria-A club first in seria a right now but can't fill their brand new and great stadium. (41.000=>37.000)
I think we can't compare Portuguese league with French league. In France, it's realy more open, each year there are surprise teams (Nancy, Toulouse, Montpelier). There are lot's of outsiders like Rennes, Saint Etienne or Bordeaux. Personnaly, I love this french league. That's possible there's not stars but a lot's of talentuous young players.

robbery4774

January 12th, 2012, 12:11 PM

I think we can't compare Portuguese league with French league. In France, it's realy more open, each year there are surprise teams (Nancy, Toulouse, Montpelier). There are lot's of outsiders like Rennes, Saint Etienne or Bordeaux. Personnaly, I love this french league. That's possible there's not stars but a lot's of talentuous young players.

Yes, of course french ligue 1 is much more entertaining and stronger league. But average attendance isn't much better.
But let's hope ligue 1 gets a a boom because of the new stadiums like Bundesliga.

Aka

January 12th, 2012, 03:23 PM

Yes, of course french ligue 1 is much more entertaining and stronger league. But average attendance isn't much better.
But let's hope ligue 1 gets a a boom because of the new stadiums like Bundesliga.

Is it?

Tommeur

January 12th, 2012, 05:01 PM

Is it?

Yes. The topclubs are just as strong or even stronger than in Portugal (when did Portugal have two clubs in de second round of the Champions League? France the last five years...), but the smaller clubs are much stronger than in Portugal. Porto hasn't lost for fifty matches, that would never happen in France.

Aka

January 12th, 2012, 06:33 PM

Yes. The topclubs are just as strong or even stronger than in Portugal (when did Portugal have two clubs in de second round of the Champions League? France the last five years...), but the smaller clubs are much stronger than in Portugal. Porto hasn't lost for fifty matches, that would never happen in France.

When was the last time that France eventually won anything?

PORTUGAL

European Cup
4x Champions
5x Runners-Up

UEFA Cup
2x Champions
3x Runners-Up (one of those times with two Portuguese teams in the final, how many times has France done that?)

Cup Winners' Cup
1x Champions
1x Runners-Up

UEFA Super Cup
1x Champions
3x Runners-Up

Intercontinental Cup
2x Champions
2x Runners-Up

FRANCE

European Cup
1x Champions
5x Runners-Up

UEFA Cup
0x Champions
4x Runners-Up

Cup Winners' Cup
1x Champions
2x Runners-Up

UEFA Super Cup
0x Champions
1x Runners-Up

Intercontinental Cup
0x Champions
0x Runners-Up

2010-11 Champions League Group Stage
Olympique Lyonnais-Benfica, 2-0
Benfica-Olympique Lyonnais, 4-3

2010-11 Europa League Round of 16
Benfica-Paris Saint-Germain, 2-1
Paris Saint-Germain-Benfica, 1-1

2010-11 Europa League Group Stage
Lille-Sporting, 1-2
Sporting-Lille, 1-0

2009-10 Europa League Round of 16
Benfica-Olympique Marseille, 1-1
Olympique Marseille-Benfica, 1-2

2008-09 UEFA Cup Round of 16
Paris Saint-Germain-SC Braga, 0-0
SC Braga-Paris Saint-Germain, 0-1

2007-08 Champions League Group Stage
Olympique Marseille-FC Porto, 1-1
FC Porto-Olympique Marseille, 2-1

2006-07 UEFA Cup Round of 16
Paris Saint-Germain-Benfica, 2-1
Benfica-Paris Saint-Germain, 3-1

2005-06 Champions League Group Stage
Benfica-Lille, 1-0
Lille-Benfica, 0-0

2004-05 Champions League Group Stage
Paris Saint-Germain-FC Porto, 2-0
FC Porto-Paris Saint-Germain, 0-0

2004-05 UEFA Cup Group Stage
Sporting-Sochaux, 0-1

2003-04 Champions League Final
FC Porto-Monaco, 3-0

2003-04 Champions League Quarter-Finals
FC Porto-Olympique Lyonnais, 2-0
Olympique Lyonnais-FC Porto, 2-2

2003-04 Champions League Group Stage
Olympique Marseille-FC Porto, 2-3
FC Porto-Olympique Marseille, 2-1

2002-03 UEFA Cup Third Round
FC Porto-Lens, 3-0
Lens-FC Porto, 1-0

Paris Saint-Germain-Boavista, 2-1
Boavista-Paris Saint-Germain, 1-0

2001-02 Champions League Group Stage
Boavista-Nantes, 1-0
Nantes-Boavista, 1-1

2000-01 UEFA Cup Fourth Round
FC Porto-Nantes, 3-1
Nantes-FC Porto, 2-1

1997-98 Champions League Group Stage
Sporting-Monaco, 3-0
Monaco-Sporting, 3-2

1997-98 UEFA Cup First Round
Bastia-Benfica, 1-0
Benfica-Bastia, 0-0

1996-97 UEFA Cup Second Round
Metz-Sporting, 2-0
Sporting-Metz, 2-1

1996-97 UEFA Cup First Round
Montpellier-Sporting, 1-1
Sporting-Montpellier, 1-0

1995-96 Champions League Group Stage
Nantes-FC Porto, 0-0
FC Porto-Nantes, 2-2

1995-96 UEFA Cup First Round
Farense-Olympique Lyonnais, 0-1
Olympique Lyonnais-Farense, 1-0

1991-92 UEFA Cup First Round
Salgueiros-Cannes, 1-0
Cannes-Salgueiros, 1-0 (4-2 in pso)

1989/90 European Cup Semi-Finals
Olympique Marseille-Benfica, 2-1
Benfica-Olympique Marseille, 1-0

1989–90 European Cup Winners' Cup First Round
Belenenses-Monaco, 1-1
Monaco-Belenenses, 3-0

1988-89 UEFA Cup First Round
Montpellier-Benfica, 0-3
Benfica-Montpellier, 3-1

1986–87 European Cup Winners' Cup Second Round
Benfica-Bordeaux, 1-1
Bordeaux-Benfica, 1-0

1984-85 UEFA Cup First Round
Sporting-Auxerre, 2-0
Auxerre-Sporting, 2-2 aet

1980-81 UEFA Cup First Round
Sochaux-Boavista, 2-2
Boavista-Sochaux, 0-1

1978-79 UEFA Cup First Round
Nantes-Benfica, 0-2
Benfica-Nantes, 0-0

1977-78 UEFA Cup First Round
Bastia-Sporting, 3-2
Sporting-Bastia, 1-2

1974-75 European Cup First Round
Saint-Étienne-Sporting, 2-0
Sporting-Saint-Étienne, 0-0

1971-72 UEFA Cup First Round
FC Porto-Nantes, 0-2
Nantes-FC Porto, 1-1

Vitória FC-Nîmes, 1-0
Nîmes-Vitória FC, 2-1

1970–71 Inter-Cities Fairs Cup First Round
Vitória SC-Angoulême, 3-0
Angoulême-Vitória SC, 3-1

1968–69 Inter-Cities Fairs Cup Second Round
Vitória FC-Olympique Lyonnais, 5-0
Olympique Lyonnais-Vitória FC, 1-2

1968–69 Inter-Cities Fairs Cup First Round
Olympique Lyonnais-Académica, 1-0
Académica-Olympique Lyonnais, 1-0 (OL won on a coin toss)

1967-68 European Cup Second Round
Benfica-Saint-Étienne, 2-0
Saint-Étienne-Benfica, 1-0

1966–67 Inter-Cities Fairs Cup
FC Porto-Bordeaux, 2-1
Bordeaux-FC Porto, 2-1 (Girondins won on a coin toss)

1965–66 Inter-Cities Fairs Cup
Stade Français-FC Porto, 0-0
FC Porto-Stade Français, 1-0

Bordeaux-Sporting, 0-4
Sporting-Bordeaux, 6-1

1964–65 European Cup Winners' Cup First Round
FC Porto-Olympique Lyonnais, 3-0
Olympique Lyonnais-FC Porto, 0-1

1963–64 European Cup Winners' Cup Semi-Finals
Olympique Lyonnais-Sporting, 0-0
Sporting-Olympique Lyonnais, 1-1
Sporting-Olympique Lyonnais, 1-0

1962–63 European Cup Winners' Cup Preliminary Round
Saint-Étienne-Vitória FC, 1-1
Vitória FC-Saint-Étienne, 0-3

So, how stronger is that to you?

Aka

January 12th, 2012, 06:38 PM

And having more teams capable of winning the championship doesn't make it stronger. Or is the MLS better than the Spanish League?

Axelferis

January 12th, 2012, 08:19 PM

Portuguese championship is stronger than france i already said it last year

For me the top 4 of europe are constituted by

-England
-italy
-Spain
-Germany

After we have 2 efficient championship
-portugal
-Netherlands

France isn't in the 6!

We have to prove more & more!
We are nothing in european leagues for the moment

We have to build our stadiums and fill them.

I want more humility for our league because we are nothing for the moment.

Money coming from qatar could help to change things in some years but we have to work harder

Slam321

January 12th, 2012, 08:56 PM

I'm don't agree at all.
Portuguese and Netherlands teams have the chance to have a calendar very more simple than French teams (fewer parties and inferior teams).
Rio Ave, Madeiro or Breda are surely less good than Valenciennes or Evian-Thonon.

Findecan

January 12th, 2012, 09:05 PM

Axel, let me know, what do you think of that ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficient#Association_coefficient_.28.22League_coefficient.22.29

Axelferis

January 12th, 2012, 09:12 PM

Only counts for me the european trophies ;)

And for the moment we have only 2 wheras Netherlands with Ajax alone has 4 champions league, uefa cup and cup of cup...(belong to the same clubs which won the 3 competitions ->barca,liverpool,Bayern,juve)

Portugal has 4 champions leagues...

Then i don't care UEFA index which just an allowance to participate to european cup but not an obligation to win.

Findecan

January 12th, 2012, 09:24 PM

Only counts for me the european trophies

Ok, so if we take your logic, we're not just behind Portugal and the Netherlands, but also behind countries as Belgium, Russia, Scotland and Sweden, who all win more european trophies than France (I also count Europa League and the former C2).

Then i don't care UEFA index which just an allowance to participate to european cup but not an obligation to win.

But this ranking takes into account the regularity of teams in each country, rather than the isolated performance of one or two clubs
Personally I prefer to have a consistent championship with 3 or 4 favorite teams and even 3 other outsiders rather than a championship without suspense where only two clubs win everything every year.

Slam321

January 12th, 2012, 10:24 PM

We are at 20,000 subscribers for the next season :banana:

Axelferis

January 12th, 2012, 10:59 PM

Findecan-> in numbers of european trophies we don't even beat Belgium!

Now stop words for our clubs! They must win to have higher consideration.

Then let's prove on the field and not on uefa index

robbery4774

January 12th, 2012, 11:18 PM

Findecan-> in numbers of european trophies we don't even beat Belgium!

Now stop words for our clubs! They must win to have higher consideration.

Then let's prove on the field and not on uefa index

Don't be so hard with your league.
Ligue 1 is clearly 5 best league in europe. Marseille, lyon and now Paris are good clubs and will perform in CL not too bad in future.Lille, rennes and some other smaller french clubs are always good for a surprise!

Axelferis

January 12th, 2012, 11:19 PM

no i maintain portugal is better than us!

We have to work harder! point

michał_

January 13th, 2012, 02:32 AM

I'm don't agree at all.
Rio Ave, Madeiro or Breda are surely less good than Valenciennes or Evian-Thonon.
Exactly that. France may not have that much success lately, but the whole league represents a level that Portugal and Netherlands simply don't have. Portuguese have got the big 3, incidentally intruded by Sporting Braga. The Dutch have their own big 3, intruded by Twente and AZ. But apart from that there are teams that are way, way lower in terms of class. In France the difference between best and worse seems a lot smaller.

But I also think Lille hasn't got the potential for this stadium. Lens - maybe. But not Lille. And I'm not saying this to make 'we know who' furious.

Aka

January 13th, 2012, 02:57 AM

Aka

January 13th, 2012, 03:00 AM

In France the difference between best and worse seems a lot smaller.

Like I said before, the difference between the worst and the best teams in MLS is even smaller. Does that make the MLS better than the Spanish League? Is the gap between the small and the big clubs in France thinner because the smaller teams are good or because the bigger ones are not doing their job properly? I know that in the NBA that means huge quality, can you say the same for Ligue 1?

robbery4774

January 13th, 2012, 10:28 AM

I'm sorry, but nothing tells me that smaller French teams are better than smaller Portuguese teams. I'm not saying they're not, but how do you know they are? Because France is a better country than Portugal?

Yes, we have crap in our league, but everybody has. If you take out the biggest clubs in every major league what do you get?

Benfica and Porto win so many matches because recently they became too much strong for the rest, while in France I can't say the same. OL used to be good, but now it lost some sparkle, OM has proven to be beatable, PSG usually fails... the rest....

I mean, Lille was French champion last year and yet they were beaten twice by Sporting that had one of the worst teams I can remember. If the champion is in that level what can you say about the rest of to league?

In fact, I believe it would be better for France if they had two or three teams that were always on the top. This "war" between Porto and Benfica made the two level up to beat the opponent and France needs someone to do it too, instead of having this "Bayern attitude", where they have the team to win every Bundesliga, without any major rival, and yet they lose some to much smaller clubs.

And probably a bit more love for the game too.

P.S.: I mean! C'mon! Wake up! You're France! You shouldn't be discussing if you have a better league than the Portuguese one. Do something to raise the level!

Of course you can't compare them because they don't play each other. But In Portugal the Top 3 Porto, Benfica and Sporting reach for 95 % 1-4 place. Even they play crap they can be sure to play EL at least. So they have a regular income they can expect.(Braga is new in this group) And because they play regular in Europe they can attract much better player than the rest of the league. and Again they will reach it. Also Porto or Benfica can focus much more on Euro-games because they still rule Portuguese league
The cycle of succes...

In french ligue 1 there are 7-10 clubs who can reach a Euro-place. No club besides Lyon or now Paris with their billionaire can't be sure to reach a good place every year. So clubs like Lille don't have the security like Benfica and spent too much.

btw: Real Madrid and Barcelona are probably the best club in the world, but in my opinion the smaller spanish clubs are worse than in England, Italy and Germany because of the inbalance tv-deal in spain.

I prefer a competitive league than a Two-horse race, even these two horse also dominate the champions league

Axelferis

January 13th, 2012, 11:29 AM

I'm sorry, but nothing tells me that smaller French teams are better than smaller Portuguese teams.

+1000

Braga reach to an european final which we are unable to do with a "small" or "medium" team

We lack in France some humility :ohno:

@Michal-> next season we'll see how many people come in this stadium but don't forget that before playing at Villeneuve d'ascq , Losc used to play in their historic stadium which was full at each match then please don't judge like this the capacity of the project

michał_

January 13th, 2012, 11:48 AM

Like I said before, the difference between the worst and the best teams in MLS is even smaller. Does that make the MLS better than the Spanish League? Is the gap between the small and the big clubs in France thinner because the smaller teams are good or because the bigger ones are not doing their job properly? I know that in the NBA that means huge quality, can you say the same for Ligue 1?
As a person watching games of the French league and some others quite often I can say that YES, it means high wuality football.

@Michal-> next season we'll see how many people come in this stadium but don't forget that before playing at Villeneuve d'ascq , Losc used to play in their historic stadium which was full at each match then please don't judge like this the capacity of the project
And you should also remember that no one should analyse the suitability of this stadium by first season. Because this will be the season in which many people will come there only or primarily for the stadium. The hype will pass and then we'll se if Lille had the potential to keep people coming.

Findecan

January 13th, 2012, 12:14 PM

I mean, Lille was French champion last year and yet they were beaten twice by Sporting that had one of the worst teams I can remember. If the champion is in that level what can you say about the rest of to league?

You are pointing one of the reasons why our country have so few european titles. In the mentality of the french clubs, only the Champions League deserve to be performed correctly, because it's the top of european level, and because it makes money. The Europa League is the second european division, and is not profitable. More, it's even a problem because you have to play 2 games per week. So, many of our clubs prefer to concentrate on the national championship to qualify for a European Cup they will not play correctly the following year.
And this mentality is a shame, because honestly the Europa League is the only competition within range of our clubs. The level of the Champions League is too high.

P.S.: I mean! C'mon! Wake up! You're France! You shouldn't be discussing if you have a better league than the Portuguese one. Do something to raise the level!

I think the arrival of the Qatari investors in PSG will increase (and has already begun to increase) the level of our league, with the arrival of some top players (for the moment Pastore) and of experimented coach (Ancelotti).
And with all the new stadiums for Euro 2016, we can expect increased revenue for our clubs in the near future.

Findecan

January 13th, 2012, 12:29 PM

But I also think Lille hasn't got the potential for this stadium. Lens - maybe. But not Lille. And I'm not saying this to make 'we know who' furious.

Dude, today Lens is in depths of the Ligue 2, and they're far to be back in L1. At the same time, Lille became champion and won the cup last year, they are still well placed this year, we can think that they will play the CL regularly (or at least the EL) in the coming years. So, today the LOSC in the new top club of the North of France.

And even if they don't win the RC Lens fans, the population base of Lille Métropole is big enough to fill the stadium.
I'm not saying it will be full for every game, but I think they can aim for a 35-40k average.

Chimaera

January 13th, 2012, 12:44 PM

^^ Little off-topic but in reply to Findecan's post (#2323): I prefer my club to remain financially independent and healthy, cherish its (more than 120 years old working class club in its case) unique identity and build from that, as hard as that might be on a local, national (e.g. the local, judicial and political problems of getting a new stadium approved and built) and international level (unfair competition, countries with different laws and rules, clubs with astronomically high debts that can get away with it etc...)

michał_

January 13th, 2012, 12:57 PM

Dude, today Lens is in depths of the Ligue 2, and they're far to be back in L1. At the same time, Lille became champion and won the cup last year, they are still well placed this year, we can think that they will play the CL regularly (or at least the EL) in the coming years. So, today the LOSC in the new top club of the North of France.

And even if they don't win the RC Lens fans, the population base of Lille Métropole is big enough to fill the stadium.
I'm not saying it will be full for every game, but I think they can aim for a 35-40k average.

I'm not saying who is where today. I'm talking about the potential for development and filling a big stadium, which I'm sure Lens has, of course in the right conditions, while Lille not necessarily. I can name several clubs that had great runs like LOSC and these runs turned out to be just short episodes in a rather unliked life. Meanwhile Lens are, as you put it, in the depths of the Ligue 2 and still attract crowds. Half a season behind us they have a 22,500 avarage which is still a decrease by some 30%. Imagine what attendance they could have if they were a successful club right now. And when they will return, I doubt Lille will have any argument to "win" their fans.

By the way - it seems they started installing seats in the upper tier. Is it true? And did I see correctly that they are RED? :)

Axelferis

January 13th, 2012, 01:35 PM

plus Lille has a bigger palmarès than lens!

Don't forget this point!

The better club of north of france on a historical plan is LOSC not lens ;)

playolive

January 13th, 2012, 04:23 PM

Return at the project :ohno: . weekly pics .

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=309185052458138&set=a.289523597757617.65236.272499799459997&type=3&theater

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/394551_309184979124812_272499799459997_898909_1175844711_n.jpg

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/381634_309185052458138_272499799459997_898910_1171188448_n.jpg

RMB2007

January 13th, 2012, 06:58 PM

Ah, so they're getting ready to add the roof cladding. Any news on what seats they opted for?

Axelferis

January 13th, 2012, 07:05 PM

the cladding for roof has debuted last month. It progress very well and i think by the end of february this part will be finished.

The facade also in great progress:

Thank rappha59 from infostades.fr:

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/1042/sam8446.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/26/sam8446.jpg/)

But... i don't understand those vertical bars because they don't appear on maquette :dunno:

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/205/img9530u.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/266/img9530u.jpg/)

Axelferis

January 13th, 2012, 09:57 PM

pics from Elisa facebook page:

hydraulic pillars to lift and move the pitch :cheers:

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/3383/fossebas1.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/844/fossebas1.jpg/)

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/9712/fossebas2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/39/fossebas2.jpg/)

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/1452/fossebas3.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/24/fossebas3.jpg/)

http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/6729/fossebas4.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/860/fossebas4.jpg/)

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/8100/fossebas5.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/832/fossebas5.jpg/)

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/5595/fossebas6.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/834/fossebas6.jpg/)

MarqueeMoon

January 14th, 2012, 11:51 AM

Axelferis

January 14th, 2012, 12:00 PM

Lille will have the most modern arena in France, if not Europe once it's finished. Chapeau!

:lol: i abandoned this idea cause of the seats but reading that reminds me how sold i was for this project!

Modern? yes we can affirm that next september we'll play in the best stadium of Ligue 1 while the others new ones (Lyon,marseille) arrive in 2014.

I really think despite we 'll lose certain great players (eden hazard) the other teams of L1 will be amazed and should be shy to play us in this jewel.

Trust me it's not my prefered stadium in Europe & the world but it's relevant to say that next season it will be the best for french L1 :bowtie:

The two things (i repeat) that dispointed me are:

-colour of seats
-opened concourses in winter.

But it's exciting to imagine that next september we'll attend match there.

I have my seasonnal ticket already reserved.

For the moment the total of seasonnal ticket are around 20K

they plan 25k.

Slam321

January 14th, 2012, 01:22 PM

That stadium will be an absolute stunner, for both, its design and multifunctionality, but what baffles me is the fine traffic infrastructure with that enormous parking and direct road links. Hard to believe a rather mediocre town, in comparison to its size and cultural importance in the whole country not just the very North, like Lille will have the most modern arena in France, if not Europe once it's finished. Chapeau!
You know, Lille is an important city in France, we are in a crossroads between London, Brussels and Paris. There's a very important population. And at the cultural level, Lille is underestimated, but it's a very nice and beautiful city. Do you know that's the city of Charles De Gaulle?
This arena is just what correspond at our city, modern (we have lot's of really good and inovative start ups) and the good size.
I promess you, Lille is a very great city ;)

parcdesprinces

January 14th, 2012, 01:35 PM

Yes, of course french ligue 1 is [...] But average attendance isn't much better.

Don't you have checked the average attendance figures of the Ligue/Division 1 vs the Primeira Liga, recently... I mean since the past 30 years or so ???

;)

Axelferis

January 14th, 2012, 03:07 PM

the old city is interesting to visit.

Lille has the reputation it deserves: some good things and a lot of rubbish quarters
not on par with beautiful lyon or Bordeaux which represents France in much better way than Lille

The problem of this city is that it isn't well balanced unlikely the majority of french cities.

The old town is quite good but the south... :ohno:

If i had the power i would destroy 50% of the city at least and redone it with waters and beautiful things like they did in london for docklands.

But the stadium is a look toward the future and this why the things must reach this level of quality now here.

Stop mediocricy and look at the future.

MS20

January 14th, 2012, 04:28 PM

Don't you have checked the average attendance figures of the Ligue/Division 1 vs the Primeira Liga, recently... I mean since the past 30 years or so ???

;)

You checked the population of France and Portugal recently? Ligue 1 average attendance is very underwhelming.

robbery4774

January 14th, 2012, 04:34 PM

Don't you have checked the average attendance figures of the Ligue/Division 1 vs the Primeira Liga, recently... I mean since the past 30 years or so ???

;)

Sy my mistakes Portugal 11.000 and France 19.000.
But Portugal has 10 million population and France 65 million.

btw: Stadium looks great!

parcdesprinces

January 14th, 2012, 04:53 PM

Ligue 1 average attendance is very underwhelming.

Tell this (first) to the Italians and their Serie A....

:runaway:

MS20

January 15th, 2012, 07:10 AM

Tell this (first) to the Italians and their Serie A....

:runaway:

No arguments there. Italy is almost exactly in the same boat as France. The only difference between Italy and France is that Italian football developed with cities having 2 pro teams, as opposed to the one-team development in France. This has given them an extra team to bump up averages in large metropolitan areas.

If Paris, Marseille or Lyon had another pro team like the bigger Italian cities, they would also probably be around that Serie A mark of 23-25,000.

Not much point in criticizing Portugal though, they do reasonably well considering their entire league is propped up by 2 cities.

Slam321

January 15th, 2012, 12:24 PM

And in France there are clubs which are situated in very small cities: Auxerre (35,000 inhab), Sochaux (4,000 inhab), Lorient (50,000 inhab), Ajaccio (65,000 inhab), Thonon-les-bains (32,000 inhab). That's only the population for the city, without the total urban area, but that not change anything because areas around cities are small.
Do you think that's more easy to fill a stadium in Auxerre with the 35,000 inhabitants than 2 stadiums in Milan with 1,300,000?

robbery4774

January 15th, 2012, 08:07 PM

Axelferis

January 15th, 2012, 11:31 PM

@robbery4774-> the reason is simply: Paris is full of incompetent people who don't have a vision of sports in the world.

In the 80's there was another team MATRA Racing paris which used to challenge PSG in big crunch! But financially the company MATRA held by Lagardère wasn't a good affair.

Lagardère decided to sell it beacame an amateur league club.

Matra racing had players like Luis fernandez & Enzo francescoli.

Today Leonardo said on a french tv show that it's not normal for paris to not have a training camp that challenges what exists in madrid,munich or milano.

it's not normal for such a big city to not have a big dedicated stadium.

paris SG used to be run by incompetents guys.

Now Ancelotti is there and players recognize that even for a training session things have considerably changed.

All is summarized: If paris hadn't 2 or 3 efficient clubs it's just because incompetence.

Not only question of money but just incompetence of managers who aren't able to finance a big training camp academy :ohno:

Lille has a magnificient training camp and have since decades far less money than paris :

http://www.losc.fr/club-lille/domaine-de-luchin

Paris is full of incompetents but with the new owners things will change

Slam321

January 16th, 2012, 12:29 AM

I think, that's just in the mentality of french to have only one club per city. But you have like in Germany cities very nearby like Lille - Valenciennes and Lens (40km between each club), or Saint Etienne and Lyon, Nice and Monaco. I like repatition like it's at present, one club for Paris that's already too much :lol: (I hate PSG like lot's of provincial).

robbery4774

January 16th, 2012, 02:20 AM

You see the investment of Paris as a threat for your clubs like Lille to destroy your competitive league or as a chance that Paris will improve the whole league 1??

In germany the situation is worse with Berlin in comparison to Paris-situation. In Berlin there are right now only two clubs which play in professional football.

Hertha BSC Berlin which play first league and is a club from the west
and Union Berlin which play second league and is a club from the former east.

So Hertha gets less support from the east-part of the city and west don't care about Union. Hertha can attract 40.000 till 50.000 but berlin people simply not love football as much as the supporters from the other clubs, so this great city will probably not play in Europe for the next 10 years because also the management of the club is incompetent. But in germany nobody cares that Berlin has only a mediocre club in comparison to other big european cities.

But probably it's sometimes better when not everything is focused on one city. I find it kind of strange how in England everything is focused on London.
football, tennis, athletics, concert, events, economy, musical, museum, culture, tourism. :cheers:

Axelferis

January 16th, 2012, 09:34 AM

You see the investment of Paris as a threat for your clubs like Lille to destroy your competitive league or as a chance that Paris will improve the whole league 1??

i don't like qatar and its money. But new PSG isn't a threat for L1 . It's a chance to see teams to be more motivated and played better.

Teams like ,Lorient,Nancy has beaten paris at parc des princes demonstrating it's possible to play them.

And if in the future PSG becomes stronger trust me a lot of team will come at parc des princes and play with 10 players back :lol:

Things won't be so easy for paris.

And Lyon won 7 titles one after one from 2001 to 2008. If PSG succeed to do it they won't be the first to realize it :tongue2:

Euro 2016 will change the face of our stadiums and will begin to looks like german ones

Pragmatus

January 16th, 2012, 05:07 PM

Hi all,

That's my first post, but I've been reading you for a few weeks :)

Very interesting discussions :

French League Vs Portuguese League :

In my opinion, French people should wonder how a 10m country is more competitive in european comptetitions (CL+EL). With less money, they're able to do a better job regarding player scouting and training. Most French teams should learn from Porto, Benfica... I think it would be more constructive to admit they're better and to try to understand why.

Qatar :
Qatar bought PSG, Al Jazeera (a qatary channel) bought a part of domestic TV rights + all international TV rights for Ligue 1. Clearly, Qatar is a chance to the whole French League, its attractiveness and its competitiveness.

Only one "big" team in Paris :
I totally agree with Axel : the main reason is incompetence. From business world and also political world. I don't know how things are going on abroad, but here in France, cities councils ("municipalités" in French) like to take part in clubs management. And sometimes, for unclear political reasons, they repell investors. One example : Stade de France is located in Seine Sant Denis. Red Star 93 is a historical club in this area. I'm pretty sure this team would fill the SDF with a little investment and a good ranking in Ligue 1 (currently they play in the 3rd league). I can't understand why no onvestor have bought the club, but I won't be surprised if politics have played their part to prevent that.

Nice to meet you,
A PSG fan,

BTW : I like the LOSC and their stadium project. If more french teams have shared this ambition, I'm pretty sure the level of the league would be much higher

Axelferis

January 16th, 2012, 05:16 PM

@ pragmatus-> you're welcomed :)

You have a realistic vision of things.

Pragmatus

January 16th, 2012, 06:04 PM

Thank you :)

Slam321

January 16th, 2012, 06:55 PM

You see the investment of Paris as a threat for your clubs like Lille to destroy your competitive league or as a chance that Paris will improve the whole league 1??

I'm shared, I think that's good for the image and competitivity of French league in Europa. But for me that's just the opposite of what I like in Football. I'm not against money in football, but money which is won by results of the club, merchandising, tickets... Not by the billionaire money. I'm disgusted because since 10 years, my favorite club, Lille, build his history with its results, with time and love. And in one year PSG will be champion with money. That's so more beautiful to win with sweat and blood, than with money.
But, I'm idealist. :)

Axelferis

January 16th, 2012, 09:46 PM

:nono: i disagree!

Paris is paris and needs a strong club!

Why qatar doesn't invest in Lille according to you? Because paris is THE place in France and deserves to attract the best investors (with marseille the only 2 in France to have won a european cup)

10 millions people ! one of the 2 most important cities of europe with london (which has several clubs)!

It's not normal than the biggest urban area not in the french top 3.

They have a story when they won cup of cup in 1996.

Lille has big companies (decathlon,auchan,etc....) which NEVER invested in this club. It's the fault of companies of North region if Lille delays its growth :dunno:.

The frilosity of those companies disabled its rythm of good perspectives on economical plan.

Lyon has jerôme Seydoux (pathé cinémas company) who invested and helped jean michel Aulas to build Olympique lyonnais.

I hope this new stadium will reach an average of 25-30 spectators because we have ALL to build a new era with LOSC.

Slam321

January 16th, 2012, 10:17 PM

Yes you can have partners and shareholders but with limits. You can't talk about Lyon like you talk about PSG. Lyon is a great exemple of what is the good management in football. Lyon was a really sad club, Jean Michel Aulas, has done a wonderfull work!
But Axel, we don't have the same vision of football and fortunately. When I go to stadium, I go to suport my club, you, you go to see a show.

Axelferis

January 16th, 2012, 11:30 PM

Slam

Lyon isn't a "sad" club.

I go to stadium to see a match of football. But i am realistic in which environment football evolves nowadays.

Where do you think the LOSC was in the 90's ?

In league 2 because lack of money and full of incompetence (not a decent training camp they used the field near the salle de sport around the citadelle/champ de mars :wallbash: )

Where is Strasbourg now? Management is the key today:

Do the right choices at the right time. It's the only truth :dunno:.

Losc did very well with Luchin camp training. They knew at the early 2000's that they needed a true new stadium.

If you don't want your club disappear one day, all corporate belt now integrated and new commercial zone integrated are a necessity.

I don't know how we could do in another way when english,spain,italian clubs win each year trophies etc...

We have to wake up .

parcdesprinces

January 16th, 2012, 11:57 PM

I'm disgusted because since 10 years, my favorite club, Lille, build his history with its results, with time and love. And in one year PSG will be champion with money. That's so more beautiful to win with sweat and blood, than with money.
But, I'm idealist. :)

No, you're just jealous, dear ! :D

And add to this the fact that apparently you have a very short memory, or maybe you're too young to remember clearly... 'Cause do I need to remind you that PSG of the Canal+ era was a great team, during the 90s and even later in the early 2000s (till 2004).
PSG, during the 90s, played 3 European semi-finals in a row (in the 3 European cups), followed by two finals (including a victorious one):

96-97: Runner-up of the Cup Winners' Cup
95-96: Winner of the Cup Winners' Cup
94-95: Semi-Finalist of the Champions League (btw the PSG was very unlucky during these semis against Milan that year)
93-94: Semi-Finalist of the Cup Winners' Cup
92-93: Semi-Finalist of the UEFA Cup

A thing ^^ that none other French team managed to achieve, especially Lille or Lyon (Lille which played in Division 2 during a large part of the 90s, if I'm not mistaken..)... BTW, because of these 3 semis and 2 finals in a row, Paris-SG was ranked 1st in the 1997-1998 very official UEFA clubs ranking: Another thing that none other French team ever achieved.

And don't forget either that PSG since 4 years after its birth 42 years ago (and its first promotion into the Division/Ligue 1), has NEVER been relegated in Ligue/Division 2, which makes this Club the oldest un-discontinuing participant of the League.... ALL the other L1 teams were already relegated, once or more, since then.

Not to mention that PSG is also the only French club who achieves to win a cup every one season out of 2 since 10 years (and has reached 8 domestic finals in the past 12 years).

All this is not that bad, eh ?
(It simply proves actually that in terms of regularity PSG is one of the best French teams.)

So, as a matter of fact, IMHO, it's the past 6 years or so in the PSG history which were abnormal, and not this season, nor the past one, nor the 90s' seasons.

Neda Say

January 17th, 2012, 07:07 PM

No, you're just jealous, dear ! :D

And add to this the fact that apparently you have a very short memory, or maybe you're too young to remember clearly... 'Cause do I need to remind you that PSG of the Canal+ era was a great team, during the 90s and even later in the early 2000s (till 2004).
PSG, during the 90s, played 3 European semi-finals in a row (in the 3 European cups), followed by two finals (including a victorious one):

96-97: Runner-up of the Cup Winners' Cup
95-96: Winner of the Cup Winners' Cup
94-95: Semi-Finalist of the Champions League (btw the PSG was very unlucky during these semis against Milan that year)
93-94: Semi-Finalist of the Cup Winners' Cup
92-93: Semi-Finalist of the UEFA Cup

A thing ^^ that none other French team managed to achieve, especially Lille or Lyon (Lille which played in Division 2 during a large part of the 90s, if I'm not mistaken..)... BTW, because of these 3 semis and 2 finals in a row, Paris-SG was ranked 1st in the 1997-1998 very official UEFA clubs ranking: Another thing that none other French team ever achieved.

And don't forget either that PSG since 4 years after its birth 42 years ago (and its first promotion into the Division/Ligue 1), has NEVER been relegated in Ligue/Division 2, which makes this Club the oldest un-discontinuing participant of the League.... ALL the other L1 teams were already relegated, once or more, since then.

Not to mention that PSG is also the only French club who achieves to win a cup every one season out of 2 since 10 years (and has reached 8 domestic finals in the past 12 years).

All this is not that bad, eh ?
(It simply proves actually that in terms of regularity PSG is one of the best French teams.)

So, as a matter of fact, IMHO, it's the past 6 years or so in the PSG history which were abnormal, and not this season, nor the past one, nor the 90s' seasons.

Wow that's called a trip to memory lane! I was in my teens! George Weah, David Ginola, Rai... I went to the Parc for the first time when I turned 14. Crappy game PSG Vs Nice tied a dreadful 0-0! Never went again! Moved to new places! But I never forgot how beautiful the Parc could be on a sunday afternoon in the spring! Never forgot how boring football could be either!

Paris doesn't have a second club in L1 cause nobody was ever able to make a valid business case for it! Red Star FC was pretty close at one point but collapsed and has been trying to rebuild ever since! all the project tied to the SDF were the results of political moves and they all failed miserably in a very well deserved way! Today we are seeing a resurgence of the 'small clubs' along with the rise of 'mega clubs' it's all good in my book as long as we don't get the ridiculous Spanish scenario in which the champion can only either be FC Barcelona or Real Madrid.

Nobody should ever compare French football and English (or British) football. In England clubs are the result of the will of many one or businessmen working together to build up a club and they get the support of their community to a certain extent! In France a club is the result of political decision first and foremost and sometimes they get the support of the local businessmen! It's a cultural thing! Every decision has to be made in one place by one person. Things are changing slowly thanks to strong minded people like Aulas in Lyon, or the late Louis-Dreyfus in Marseille.

Slam321

January 17th, 2012, 08:08 PM

I see Axelferris like parcdesprinces don't understand what I've said.

@ Axelferis: please read what I've said!!! :ohno:
I don't say Lyon is a sad club, I've said it was. They were a sad club before, like the Losc. I'm not against football with merchandising, commercial zone...
I've wrote a memory on this subject.
My conclusion was you can build a great club with intelligence, good management, investment in the infrastructure (stadium, training center, shops dedicated)... But I've wrote too, it have no interest to build a club with just money of "mécénat" (I don't find the equivalent in english).

@ Parcdesprinces: I'm not jalous, I promise you. But I don't dispute the fact than PSG is a good club which has won lot's of trophees. It could be in Reims, Marseille, Saint Etienne or Monaco, it would be the same :yes: Don't you think it's sad to win trophies just by money? Do you think it will be great when Manchester City or Malaga will win trophies just by money of Qataris?
And why, I'm bitter, that because I think LOSC could win other trophies if there was'nt money in PSG.
That's fine for you, too bad for us and the rest of Ligue 1.

Axelferis

January 17th, 2012, 08:44 PM

Ok slam.

But money is not all.

Red bull salzbourg+Athletic Bilbao have beaten them despite their millions €€€.

True football exist and Lille,Lyon,Marseille don't need excuses. Marseille has beaten PSG 3-0 then it's possible to play them.

The new stadiums will add cash in their budgets.

Do you know that PSG has NOTHING in term of property?

The camp des loges training centre is built on a ground that belongs to the...army! :lol:

Even LOSC has a patrimoine now with the domaine of Luchin which belongs to LOSC and is the headquarter of the club.

trust me PSG will be the favourite each begining of championship but not the winner yet .

Leonardo,jean claude blanc & El khelaifi know that others clubs are in advance compare to them concerning the duo new stadium+camp training.

They are not sheltered yet .

Pragmatus

January 18th, 2012, 12:06 AM

True !

... And I hope they will invest money in facilities and not only in players... Cause facilities will remain while players will leave :)

By the way, Manchester City belongs to Abu Dhabi, which invest fund is about ten times as large as Qatar Invest Fund (http://www.fondssouverains.com/article-31452762.html).

Slam321

January 24th, 2012, 06:42 PM

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/s720x720/406934_312145595495417_272499799459997_905790_1923449136_n.jpg
a pic which dates of 18/01

Axelferis

January 24th, 2012, 07:42 PM

very compact stadium

good for ambiance :)

michał_

January 25th, 2012, 01:13 AM

very compact stadium

good for ambiance :)

Sounded almost as if you weren't sure about that from the start ;)

Divided into three tiers - dramatically bad for supporter-created atmosphere.

Axelferis

January 25th, 2012, 11:14 AM

oh you know the kop will be in the 1st tier north stand tribune. it will be enough to listen their chants .

i expect a big resonnance and good acoustic.

Slam321

January 26th, 2012, 09:15 PM

Yes, it will be one of the best architecture stadium for ambiance. Very compact and closed with the roof.
http://www.grandstade-lillemetropole.com/photo/flash/bigger/est.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/409452_317251911651452_272499799459997_920490_499881512_n.jpg

Axelferis

January 26th, 2012, 09:24 PM

i truly think that other teams of L1 will be impressed when playing there next year.

i can't imagine a lot of teams win there in L1.

Only the parc des princes have a "comparable" bowl (2 tiers vs 3 tiers)

If they replace eden hazard by the combo marvin Martin+ boudebouz coming from sochaux the basis of the way of playing will be maintained and surely efficient which them.

Losc could do well next season despite PSG super financial surface

Slam321

January 26th, 2012, 10:06 PM

I think Axel, you underline a thing very important for the Losc. The stadium Nord doesn't impress opponents. Next season with this stadium, I think that will be totally different and we'll have a great advantage!

Axelferis

January 26th, 2012, 10:11 PM

even a match with an attendance of 25k could "terrify" dijon,valenciennes,caen,sochaux etc...

Lille arena with "only" 25k will be more impressive than caen d'ornano or sochaux bonal or stade du hainaut valenciennes 25k :lol:

The structure amplify this general feeling.Team must transform it into a fortress!

michał_

January 27th, 2012, 03:25 AM

oh you know the kop will be in the 1st tier north stand tribune. it will be enough to listen their chants .

i expect a big resonnance and good acoustic.
Sorry Axel, but this stadium does not provide a kop...

And your expectations of great acoustics may end up with dissapointment as the complexicity of the roof structure may in fact distort noise.

Not mentioning that I have absolutely no idea where you got the dream that other players will be too impressed by this stadium to win from.

even a match with an attendance of 25k could "terrify" dijon,valenciennes,caen,sochaux etc...
Lille arena with "only" 25k will be more impressive than caen d'ornano or sochaux bonal or stade du hainaut valenciennes 25k :lol:
How is a half empty stadium better than a smaller one packed to capacity? Players don't just fold and give up when they see a retractable roof. They see it, say "nice" and play football. Lille may have a great streak at the stadium, it will surely be a boost, but your way of thinking sounds as if it was supposed to get the scores itself.

MS20

January 27th, 2012, 03:46 AM

There is research that show that fans have no effect on visiting teams. Playing in front of big crowds can actually inspire players. But, playing at home has an effect on a referee though, who is more likely to favour the home team over the course of the season. And if Lille can build a regular attendance of 30,000+ then it will go a long way to putting pressure on referees, and finally putting Lille in that class with the top French teams who benefit from having large fan bases. The bigger the team, the more influence you wield over referees subconsciously. And you get the sense that Lille are moving towards being a "big team" by European standards, mainly because of the stadium and the untapped potential of Lille-Kortijk metro area.

Axelferis

January 27th, 2012, 11:05 AM

@michal-> your constant comments anti lille stadium reveals that your not a fan of this project i know it is your freedom i accept it

But please be relevant in your critic: Losc president has said several times they want a great acoustic and this stadium (according to him) will have it. He 's a movie producer and he explained that with his experience of entertainement he want a great acoustic. He met engineers . The bbusiness belt has the same windows glass door than wembley-> they are not on the same plan but are oblique each on the other to make the echo effect happens

I was at wembley and we we were 20 during the visit tour. The guide asked us to shout "HELLO WEMBLEY" to make the effect. It was stunning to hear that in live :okay:

Lille arena for sure is not wembley but it has this windows business belt design+ a compact architecture.

I'm sure it could easily be one of the best acoustic performer stadium here in france. i bet you :cheers:

I mainatin that a lot of teams will be impressed the first time to play in "new french era stadium".
The others stadiums will follow in the next years (lyon,nice etc...)

Just look how is hard to win at valenciennes stade du hainaut. only bordeaux with chance has succeed this season.

A kop? of course it will be in the north tribune.All categories of groups (DVE +the others will be at one stand)

michał_

January 27th, 2012, 02:32 PM

@michal-> your constant comments anti lille stadium reveals that your not a fan of this project i know it is your freedom i accept it
Ha, no I'm not a fan of this project, because I'm really fan of very few projects. I like the stadium, find it uninspiring, but extremely modern and surely among the best in Europe when done. I just see your enthusiasm as completely unrealistic, that's why I sometimes mess with you ;)

But please be relevant in your critic: Losc president has said several times they want a great acoustic and this stadium (according to him) will have it. He 's a movie producer and he explained that with his experience of entertainement he want a great acoustic. He met engineers . The bbusiness belt has the same windows glass door than wembley-> they are not on the same plan but are oblique each on the other to make the echo effect happens
I didn't say it won't have good acoustics, I said it may not have it. It's not like I want anything bad for LOSC.

Lille arena for sure is not wembley but it has this windows business belt design+ a compact architecture.
You do realize that you just compared the Lille stadium to one of the most criticised stadiums in terms of atmosphere? And you actually used the business belt as an advantage while it may be a killer to atmosphere?

A kop? of course it will be in the north tribune.All categories of groups (DVE +the others will be at one stand)
A kop is a single-tiered steep stand (originating from the Spion Kop hill). Liverpool's got one, Borussia's got one, St. Etienne's got one, my home Wisla's got one. Lille hasn't got one. If you mean a section for the fanatics, I'm sure you will have one (and hope to see it in good voice some day), but it's not a Kop.

Axelferis

January 27th, 2012, 04:57 PM

ok for the kop

but this :nono:

You do realize that you just compared the Lille stadium to one of the most criticised stadiums in terms of atmosphere? And you actually used the business belt as an advantage while it may be a killer to atmosphere?

is rubbish statement.
Wembley is very good.it's not the fault of this stadium but the pathetic team playing in it

Axelferis

January 27th, 2012, 05:05 PM

Photos from Eiffage facebook:

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/8493/janvier2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/716/janvier2.jpg/)

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/2916/janvier3.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/708/janvier3.jpg/)

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/3598/janvier4.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/716/janvier4.jpg/)

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/8020/janvierx.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/6/janvierx.jpg/)

http://fr-fr.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.318031281573515.71316.272499799459997&type=1

b5254

January 27th, 2012, 09:28 PM

First tier is too flat. Second tier is too small.

But it might be good atmosphere anyway... let's wait and see.

Axelferis

January 27th, 2012, 10:38 PM

rubbish!

First tiers will be good

I made a rapid mock up to give the feeling:

http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/4866/tribunebis.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/854/tribunebis.jpg/)

the feeling of 50k will be there

Slam321

January 27th, 2012, 10:45 PM

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/9854
a pic from Rappha59 from info-stades

playolive

January 30th, 2012, 02:10 PM

A comprativ from april 2010 to this day

comparatif depuis avril 2010. sachant qu'il manque mai et juin (impossible de faire le pano avec ces photos de juin !!)

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/3593/panoavril.jpg

http://img815.imageshack.us/img815/300/panojuin.jpg

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/5948/panojuillet.jpg

http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/1954/panoa.jpg

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/8356/panooctobre.jpg

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/5884/panota.jpg

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/3862/panodecembre2.png

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/2569/st835861stitch.jpg

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/7785/st835949stitch.jpg

mars 2011
http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/8901/panomars2.jpg

avril 2011
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/8920/panoavril11.jpg

juillet 2011
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/3153/panojuillety.jpg

Août 2011
http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/4903/panolille1aout11.jpg

septembre 2011
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/2194/p10305352.jpg

Octobre 2011
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/9018/panolille1221011.jpg

novembre 2011
http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/2851/panolille1.jpg

decembre 2011
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/4233/p1040338z.jpg

janvier 2012
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4750/p1040485f.jpg

Final report
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/4417/lille20111225221112.jpg

playolive

January 30th, 2012, 02:11 PM

11 juin :
http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/7442/p1020378sch.jpg

19 juillet
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/2663/p1020605sch.jpg

19 Août
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/6064/panodevantaout11.jpg

24 septembre
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/4375/p1030545sch.jpg

22 octobre
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/9426/panodevant221011.jpg

25 novembre
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/2893/panodevant.jpg

26 décembre
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/8163/p1040322stitch.jpg

30 janvier 2012
http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/2152/panojanv12stmaclou.jpg

rendu final
http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/8151/lille20111225220012.jpg

playolive

January 30th, 2012, 02:11 PM

11 juin
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/7545/p1020386m.jpg

19 juillet
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/6412/p1020611n.jpg

19 Août
http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/5471/p1030339.jpg

24 septembre
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/9937/p1030547fw.jpg

22 octobre
http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/7264/p1030692g.jpg

25 novembre
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/9700/panodevant2.jpg

26 décembre
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4415/p1040329k.jpg

30 janvier
http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/2240/p1040481j.jpg

rendu final
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/605/lille20111226161819g.jpg

playolive

January 30th, 2012, 02:13 PM

one video :

XAiy4YIDDk4&feature=channe

Axelferis

January 30th, 2012, 08:07 PM

thank you much :)

parcdesprinces

January 31st, 2012, 02:00 AM

When will they put the cladding ? I mean, I can't wait, especially because I always stated that I won't give my final opinion regarding the exterior design as long as I won't see the clad. ... :)

playolive

January 31st, 2012, 10:01 AM

When will they put the cladding ? I mean, I can't wait, especially because I always stated that I won't give my final opinion regarding the exterior design as long as I won't see the clad. ... :)

On this February... :banana:

ManoWar99

January 31st, 2012, 11:01 AM

ok for the kop

but this :nono:

is rubbish statement.
Wembley is very good.it's not the fault of this stadium but the pathetic team playing in it

Wembley is one of the most criticized stadiums. It's funny you are comparing it to Wembley. My biggest fear is that this stadium will be a corporate popcorn eating stadium. Your excitement for the project is truly scary!

Axelferis

January 31st, 2012, 11:14 AM

Corporate stadium?

What is a corporate stadium?

ALL the stadiums are designed to welcome ALL type of spectators.It is the reality of our era :dunno:
A lot here doesn't accept this.

-A fan who want to sing , sings
-A white collar who want to eat ,drink caviar & champagne do it.

This si the reality of a stadium today.

Only europeans continue to criticize it. But americans do those type of stadiums for decades.

If wembley seems to sleep it's because the bad team which play in it. Could you tell me what english national teams has made good since New wembley has been built??
Nothing!

I repost this video when TRUE players were at wembley:

g0NT6aUwN8c

Today why spectators will emphaze for bad palyers i see everitime in the pitch of wembley during international matches?

parcdesprinces

January 31st, 2012, 12:24 PM

Only europeans continue to criticize it.

Have you ever set one of your feet in a college stadium in North America (for example) ?? No, I guess you haven't.. ;)

Axelferis

January 31st, 2012, 04:30 PM

Dear, What the hell are you talking about?
What a college american stadium has to do with a historical place like wembley?

The purpose is not the same.

Ambiance is certainly hotter in american campus stadiums due to all those hot springbreak girls & boys :lol:

How do you classify the next jean bouin & arena 92 ? ;)

parcdesprinces

January 31st, 2012, 04:43 PM

:ohno:

playolive

January 31st, 2012, 04:54 PM

exuse me, i talk about the reality :sad2:

thks to rappha59 http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ligue1/lille-grand-stade-lille-metropole-t24-9015.html

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/10020

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/10019

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/10016

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/10017

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/10018

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/10015

Axelferis

January 31st, 2012, 05:07 PM

:ohno:

Stop your superior attitude and explain yourself! :bash:

alwn

January 31st, 2012, 07:28 PM

Stop your superior attitude and explain yourself! :bash:
Axelferis you are not in your gabon to ask explain. When you are in Europe you have to behave civilized. Otherwise France will show you the way back

playolive

January 31st, 2012, 08:01 PM

Nice pics, isn't ?

stop blabla....

Axelferis

January 31st, 2012, 10:02 PM

Axelferis you are not in your gabon to ask explain. When you are in Europe you have to behave civilized. Otherwise France will show you the way back

i'm french ! Where are you from?Europe? Which europe ?
Your words are just ones of a racist guy.

Please leave this discussion.
Thank you :)

Playolive-> pics are good. thanx

alwn

January 31st, 2012, 11:07 PM

Now I'm more quite, you r a direct descendant of Charlemagne. lol
almost cheated me.. I was thinking you are Swedish :)

Axelferis

January 31st, 2012, 11:56 PM

Ok I come in PM you'll see i don't joke with you.
:gunz:

Andre_idol

February 1st, 2012, 12:42 AM

Thanks playolive for the pics ;)

Axelferis

February 1st, 2012, 10:54 PM

Pics from Elisa facebook:

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/5624/face1i.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/513/face1i.jpg/)

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/497/face2wb.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/833/face2wb.jpg/)

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/7070/face3v.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/14/face3v.jpg/)

http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/116/face4h.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/546/face4h.jpg/)

Pragmatus

February 2nd, 2012, 12:52 PM

Thanks all for the pics.

It seems clear there will be business "loges" between second and third tiers. What about the gap between first and second tiers ? Business loges too ?

Axelferis

February 2nd, 2012, 01:32 PM

Gap between 1rst and 2nd tiers? i don't understand. The gap wich has a function of vomitory?

New pics:

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/5014/face5z.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/404/face5z.jpg/)

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/3308/face7n.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/191/face7n.jpg/)

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/7523/face8p.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/444/face8p.jpg/)

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/1854/face9n.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/190/face9n.jpg/)

http://img815.imageshack.us/img815/9594/face11.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/815/face11.jpg/)

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/3707/face10.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/835/face10.jpg/)

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/82/face6.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/406/face6.jpg/)

from elisa facebook

Pragmatus

February 2nd, 2012, 02:35 PM

@Axel : sur l'une des photos, on voit un grand espace entre le premier et le deuxième étage. C'est peut-être un effet de perspective depuis la prise de vue, mais l'espace paraît tellement grand qu'on pourrait y placer des loges. Je pense que c'est simplement la perspective qui donne cette illusion.

(sorry for english speaking people, I feared misunderstanding in the Shakespeare language)

Axelferis

February 2nd, 2012, 03:46 PM

Il est vrai qu'il paraît grand mais c'est une entrée donc elle doit être suffisamment large.

De là à ce qu'il y ait des loges un jour à cet endroit rien ne me surprendrait surtout au niveau des places que l'on qualifierait de présidentielles même dans le premier anneau.

Un jour pourquoi pas."L'appétit vient en mangeant"
Pourquoi pas imaginer un jour un resto panoramique pour accroître encore les recettes pour eiffage
A valenciennes c'est comme cela qu'ils ont procédé. mais bon le stade du hainaut n'a pas de ceinture business.

Valenciennes stade du hainaut
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/1563/capturedcran20100225001.jpg

Pragmatus

February 2nd, 2012, 04:03 PM

Understood, thx :)

playolive

February 3rd, 2012, 09:54 PM

two pics from eiffage website https://www.facebook.com/pages/Grand-Stade-Lille-M%C3%A9tropole-Officiel/272499799459997?sk=wall

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/417446_322719871104656_272499799459997_932423_1370052490_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/421787_322719697771340_272499799459997_932422_1206202557_n.jpg

gavstar00

February 4th, 2012, 01:09 PM

From looking at the moveable half of the pitch in position above the static half I've noticed something. Currently the moveable half is jacked up and not connected which is obviously the norm while it's finished and attached to the rail mechanism. What were to happen if say the moveable half say slipped its rail well after construction is finished and they had to jack it up again to fix it; surely the jacks in such a scenario would cause massive damage to the static half of the pitch and associated sprinkler lines etc.?

Densetsu

February 4th, 2012, 01:13 PM

The roof looks a bit low and close to the ground which might create a suffocating atmosphere.

Axelferis

February 4th, 2012, 01:30 PM

@gavstar->I 'm unable to answer you with details i'm not an engieneer sorry :dunno:

@densetsu-> Not as close as to old trafford one ;) . Anyway we'll have a terrific acoustic trust me!

Thanks to rappha59 from infostades.fr :)

http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/02/04/120204013816961462.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120204013816961462.jpg)

http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/02/04/120204014954587501.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120204014954587501.jpg)

http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/02/04/120204013938210857.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120204013938210857.jpg)

http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/02/04/120204014010440265.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120204014010440265.jpg)

Slam321

February 4th, 2012, 01:33 PM

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/10254

Laurence2011

February 4th, 2012, 11:08 PM

Ok I come in PM you'll see i don't joke with you.
:gunz:

Grand Theft Auto: SkyscraperCity

Axelferis

February 9th, 2012, 12:49 PM

Latest news:

-According to ELisa directoc of the the project some delays are possible.
2 days ago during an interview he leaked a "bomb" -> the complex could be ready for december 2012.

Losc president reaction was rapid and expressed his incredulity with the news. He wasn't aware of this and his rant has spread newspaper.
" All of this doesn't concern football but the arena. I just want to have my stadium" he said.

To summary, the football configuration should be ready for august 2012 for LOSC.
The Arena mode (removable field) and concerts& spectacles bid should be ready for december 2012.

-A system of heating is set for the "small box" (6000 seats). But the rest of stadium won't have heating system :dunno: ...for the moment.
-for the grass lumino system are scheduled for all the pitch even when split
-10 restaurants around the stadium inside the aparts/hotels building +integrated in the parking part which has a view on the esplanade/parvis
-seats will be fixed on march/april window
-same period for poly tubes which make the cladding.

Some pics of rappha59 of infostades.fr:

http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/02/09/120209125739626397.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120209125739626397.jpg)

http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/02/09/120209125817651858.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120209125817651858.jpg)

http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/02/09/120209125853973430.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120209125853973430.jpg)

http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/02/09/120209125658555425.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120209125658555425.jpg)

Pragmatus

February 9th, 2012, 03:42 PM

Thx for the news.
I hope Seydoux is right and the LOSC will play there in August.
However, I wonder how can Elisa finish the arena configuration once the grass is set ?
I guess the main point is the underground system ?

Axelferis

February 9th, 2012, 06:02 PM

The reason is administrative+juridic.

There was a delay of 6 months at beginning due to the justice appeal concerning the authorization to build.

Elisa then try to use this reason to make an "official" delay based on the fact they have the right to do it due to initial administrative delay.

By this way in a case of a "light delay" (september rather than august) they won't be charged to pay penalities of 50 000€/day appearing in the contract until the stadium is ready.
They try to increase their lauch window from august to december without being prosecuted for delay and pay penalties

They play a sort "bluff game" to protect themselves of financial penalities for non respect of initial schedules"

What a bast*** company :ohno:

Neda Say

February 9th, 2012, 06:55 PM

by 'juridic' you mean legal? right!?

Axelferis

February 9th, 2012, 07:01 PM

yes sorry.

No problem for august 2012 said elisa director:

http://www.lemoniteur.fr/147-transport-et-infrastructures/article/actualite/873953-grand-stade-de-lille-une-livraison-en-deux-temps

only the arena configuration will be delayed until fall 2012

Marsupalami

February 10th, 2012, 07:15 AM

wow! theyve actually speeded thing along !
didnt think it was ever going to be finnished at the snails-pace of earlier.

Slam321

February 11th, 2012, 01:02 PM

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/396518_327302270646416_272499799459997_942867_1350798261_n.jpg
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/395461_327302520646391_272499799459997_942869_149909898_n.jpg
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/421149_327302590646384_272499799459997_942870_1603267962_n.jpg
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/426402_327302660646377_272499799459997_942871_638979170_n.jpg
http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/407149_327303010646342_272499799459997_942875_414040921_n.jpg

Luis87

February 11th, 2012, 03:38 PM

Great pictures. I really like this stadium.

Axelferis

February 11th, 2012, 05:52 PM

you do well ;)

michał_

February 12th, 2012, 04:47 PM

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/396518_327302270646416_272499799459997_942867_1350798261_n.jpg
[...]

The photos seem to show that there will be quite little sunlight available for the pitch. Same seems to apply for ventilation if all the facades will be covered with cladding. Have these issues been dismissed in France?

Axelferis

February 12th, 2012, 07:14 PM

where have you seen a possible sunlight pass?

michał_

February 13th, 2012, 04:41 AM

where have you seen a possible sunlight pass?
That's the point - there only seems to be a very modest open space directly over it, as if sun was supposed to be always at its highest point. Some stadiums with retractable roofs face this kind of problem, naming Amsterdam Arena. Not sure about the Dusseldorf one.

parcdesprinces

February 13th, 2012, 11:43 AM

The photos seem to show that there will be quite little sunlight available for the pitch.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure sine a while that the pitch will be synthetic because of the issue you pointed out + a lack of aeration. (maybe not from the opening, but within a year or so they will change the natural pitch for an artificial turf)

Axelferis

February 13th, 2012, 01:16 PM

Not before 2016 for an artificial pitch.

But i see a lot of stadiums with high tribunes and not artificial grass.
Just a question of willingness to keep in good health this turf

michał_

February 15th, 2012, 12:50 AM

Not before 2016 for an artificial pitch.
Why not? It's still a long time before the Euro and in 2016 UEFA will probably install their natural grass for the tournament anyway.

Axelferis

February 15th, 2012, 11:48 AM

because Losc doesn't want it.
Elisa director confirm that no artificial turf before 2016.

Axelferis

February 15th, 2012, 05:19 PM

news!!!

the virtual website tour has been updated:

-Rugby configuration available
-Arena sport available
-concert arena configuration available
-concert 360° configuration available

visit here :

http://www.grandstade-lillemetropole.com/cms/maquette-virtuelle.html

http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/02/15/120215053738497915.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120215053738497915.jpg)

http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/02/15/120215052651761772.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120215052651761772.jpg)

http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/02/15/120215054322386348.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120215054322386348.jpg)

:cheers:

Axelferis

February 16th, 2012, 01:17 PM

more explicits virtual renders:

http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/02/16/120216012058272178.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120216012058272178.jpg)

http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/02/16/120216011530885590.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120216011530885590.jpg)

http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/02/16/120216011605568204.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120216011605568204.jpg)

http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/02/16/120216011642557541.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120216011642557541.jpg)

http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/02/16/120216011712612145.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120216011712612145.jpg)

http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/02/16/120216012252726648.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120216012252726648.jpg)

http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/02/16/120216012356712372.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120216012356712372.jpg)

http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/02/16/120216012446839698.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120216012446839698.jpg)

http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/02/16/120216012519182960.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120216012519182960.jpg)

http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/02/16/120216012554223886.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120216012554223886.jpg)

http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/02/16/120216012633516102.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120216012633516102.jpg)

http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/02/16/120216012752474841.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120216012752474841.jpg)

http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/02/16/120216012817344938.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120216012817344938.jpg)

http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/02/16/120216012954752175.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120216012954752175.jpg)

http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/02/16/12021601302627198.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=12021601302627198.jpg)

http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/02/16/120216013103697443.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120216013103697443.jpg)

http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/02/16/120216013128140763.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120216013128140763.jpg)

http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/02/16/120216013657929490.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120216013657929490.jpg)

Axelferis

February 16th, 2012, 01:46 PM

http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/02/16/120216014950662779.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120216014950662779.jpg)

http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/02/16/120216015040150890.png (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120216015040150890.png)

http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/02/16/120216015113586947.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120216015113586947.jpg)

http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/02/16/120216015148913624.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120216015148913624.jpg)

360° scene configuration:

http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/02/16/120216015243145990.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120216015243145990.jpg)

http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/02/16/120216015307149993.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120216015307149993.jpg)

http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/02/16/120216015356793329.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120216015356793329.jpg)

http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/02/16/120216015429428093.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120216015429428093.jpg)

http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/02/16/120216015455473997.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120216015455473997.jpg)

http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/02/16/120216015600107432.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120216015600107432.jpg)

All those pics show that we have a "beast" of events there :cheers:

robbery4774

February 16th, 2012, 02:06 PM

Very nice picture!

This stadium will be a boost for the whole area!!! I hope you qualify with this stadium for the cl.

gavstar00

February 16th, 2012, 02:13 PM

True, but there are history of arenas/stadiums that have the ability to host various events that never do. Have any events outside of Lille football matches been confirmed for the stadium?

Pragmatus

February 16th, 2012, 03:03 PM

I'm not afraid for that. There is no other facility of this kind in the North of France, and even in the whole country.

Axelferis

February 16th, 2012, 03:23 PM

-Football:
25 matchs/year

-Arena indoor:
8/year

-Spectacles/concerts:
9/year

http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/02/16/120216033156975915.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120216033156975915.jpg)

Slam321

February 16th, 2012, 04:58 PM

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/422730_331582273551749_272499799459997_951721_1951838666_n.jpg
http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/408955_331582670218376_272499799459997_951723_112314047_n.jpg
http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/426635_331582803551696_272499799459997_951724_1047788830_n.jpg

juanico

February 16th, 2012, 06:13 PM

http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/02/16/120216033156975915.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120216033156975915.jpg)

Cups (French Cup + League Cup) + Champions League : only 4 matches per year... Very optimistic on Lille success in these competitions :lol:

parcdesprinces

February 16th, 2012, 06:19 PM

^^ chuuuut !!!! Tu vas te faire incendier ! :D

:runaway:

Having said that, I think it's still better to be sure (humble) for a minimal number of games, than to claim a very hypothetical: "LOSC will play a dozen of cup games per year in the next three decades"...

So, they are right IMO on this matter (humbleness, etc).

Axelferis

February 16th, 2012, 06:20 PM

it is a low forecast i think.

they are a little bit stupid at the company which conduct the project.
(carlton hotel case, delays to finish the whole stadium or corbeil essone hospital for examples :| )

Hansadyret

February 17th, 2012, 02:36 AM

Looks nice. How many seats in that basketball configuration?

Sebast

February 17th, 2012, 11:50 AM

Looks nice. How many seats in that basketball configuration?

30000 seats

Axelferis

February 17th, 2012, 12:23 PM

30000 seats but i think they will use 25000 configuration the main of time or only if a french national team handball or basketball plays there .

Axelferis

February 24th, 2012, 02:31 PM

stadium could be ready for august according to Eiffage director pierre berger.
He says that the "spectacles small box" is already a success-> Madonna management took informations about the place.
French federation of tennis want a davis cup week end here.
The same for french rugby federation :cheers:

Le directeur général du groupe de BTP Eiffage, chargé de la construction et de l'exploitation du Grand stade de Lille Métropole a assuré vendredi que l'enceinte pourrait ouvrir ses portes dans les prochains mois. «Nous allons livrer le stade pour le football avant la fin de l'été, en septembre et peut-être en août», a déclaré Pierre Berger lors d'une conférence de presse à Paris, au lendemain de la publication des résultats 2011 de son groupe. L'objectif du LOSC est de pouvoir en bénéficier pour le deuxième match de la saison 2012-2013, après un premier à l'extérieur.
«Un succès fou pour la Boîte à spectacles»
Mais ce stade ultra-moderne d'une capacité de 50 283 places n'accueillera pas seulement des matches de football, puisqu'une Arena de 5 300 à 29 500 places pourra aussi être installée sur la pelouse et se soulever ou glisser si nécessaire, pour être le théâtre de nouveaux autres événements sportifs ou autres (basket-ball, volley-ball, tennis, patinage artistique, handball, boxe). «La Boîte à spectacles connaît déjà un succès fou, on ne s'est pas trompés, a confirmé Monsieur Berger. Madonna et Johnny Hallyday se sont renseignés pour donner des concerts. La Fédération française de tennis veut organiser une rencontre de Coupe Davis et la Fédération de rugby des rencontres internationales». (Avec AFP)
http://www.lequipe.fr/Football/Actualites/Le-grand-stade-bientot-pret/265791

Slam321

February 24th, 2012, 03:40 PM

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/400984_336780533031923_272499799459997_963960_551686622_n.jpg
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/424093_336780736365236_272499799459997_963961_1198235156_n.jpg

Slam321

February 24th, 2012, 04:15 PM

They begin to put polycarbonate tubes for the cladding!
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/417117_336805759696067_272499799459997_964239_2132400801_n.jpg
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/418210_336806156362694_272499799459997_964240_566318664_n.jpg
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/402015_336806626362647_272499799459997_964249_1505900154_n.jpg
They disassemble orange tubes which secured the roof
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/423590_336806966362613_272499799459997_964250_492263693_n.jpg
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/419690_336807403029236_272499799459997_964258_1576339208_n.jpg
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/402543_336808006362509_272499799459997_964261_1617427903_n.jpg

Axelferis

February 24th, 2012, 04:17 PM

They start the cladding :banana:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=88850810&postcount=2440

parcdesprinces

February 24th, 2012, 04:42 PM

Ah, finally !

I'll wait a little bit longer before giving my definitive opinion about this clad... But for now I'm not a big fan.

Having said that, I think this clad will be great at night, but not so sure it will in the daylight, especially during cloudy days. But let's wait & see...

Axelferis

February 24th, 2012, 04:44 PM

i think it will make debate like the shard tower and its cladding :|

The best of it will be at night but we could be surprised on a sunny day!

Pragmatus

February 24th, 2012, 05:37 PM

Thx for the link.
The bare tubes ARE the cladding ?

Axelferis

February 24th, 2012, 07:31 PM

yes :

http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/02/24/12022407422975438.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=12022407422975438.jpg)

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/417117_336805759696067_272499799459997_964239_2132400801_n.jpg

RMB2007

February 24th, 2012, 07:37 PM

Erm, there's nothing going behind those tubes, meaning the people on the concourse will still be exposed to the elements?

Axelferis

February 24th, 2012, 07:54 PM

that's the problem :|

Only business+ press part will have distinctive glass windows that separate their place from the rest of concourses.

press room here:
http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/02/24/120224080452172237.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120224080452172237.jpg)

But spectators in the exposed concourses will be sheltered by a roof glass part don't worry :) you can see it on the maquette pic i posted 2 posts above

parcdesprinces

February 24th, 2012, 08:19 PM

that's the problem :|

Indeed, like I already pointed out from almost 2 years now.. :bowtie:

(and some Lillois insulted me because I pointed this issue out...not you Axel, I know ....but some other biased Lillois did, especially on 'your' dear infos-stadesNPDC forum ;))

Axelferis

February 24th, 2012, 09:56 PM

I have no NPDC forum here or away ;)

I'm international if i can say...
A lot bashed me to criticize all the time Lille on french section.
I'm just realistic when i give my opinion for paris ,lyon,Lille, london , NYC
i'm impartial.

If a project is better in Lille rather than in Paris i say it.

And this lack of protective glass avoiding wind in the concourse is a stupidity i pointed months ago too :wallbash:

Eiffage announced that the cost of this stadium impacts their results.

for me they are just stupid! They don't care of the wind because they (and all others politics,stars, businessmen) will be located in business vip ring with caviar and champagne :bowtie: in heated receptions rooms...

It's not like this you do a stadium today.

I hope in the future they will make something because i don't believe they could keep this stance if they want to organize events in winter.

Women & children who want to go to WC during a spectacle will have to face a cold wind like it was the case previous weeks?

I can't believe it :nuts:

Axelferis

February 26th, 2012, 10:02 PM

video of the road leading to the stadium:

xp2gzx

playolive

February 27th, 2012, 12:51 AM

some pics to today

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/4555/p1040523yy.jpg

http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/559/p1040524t.jpg

http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/737/p1040530z.jpg

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/4773/p1040531t.jpg

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/5142/p1040532z.jpg

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/3816/p1040533r.jpg

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/1281/p1040534qv.jpg

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/1640/p1040538y.jpg

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/350/p1040541kr.jpg

http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/5726/p1040543.jpg

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/1617/p1040546k.jpg

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/5418/p1040547w.jpg

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/5621/p1040550ph.jpg

http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/3678/p1040555my.jpg

http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/3671/p1040553b.jpg

playolive

February 27th, 2012, 12:52 AM

comparatif depuis avril 2010. sachant qu'il manque mai et juin (impossible de faire le pano avec ces photos de juin !!)

http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/3593/panoavril.jpg

http://img815.imageshack.us/img815/300/panojuin.jpg

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/5948/panojuillet.jpg

http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/1954/panoa.jpg

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/8356/panooctobre.jpg

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/5884/panota.jpg

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/3862/panodecembre2.png

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/2569/st835861stitch.jpg

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/7785/st835949stitch.jpg

mars 2011
http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/8901/panomars2.jpg

avril 2011
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/8920/panoavril11.jpg

juillet 2011
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/3153/panojuillety.jpg

Août 2011
http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/4903/panolille1aout11.jpg

septembre 2011
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/2194/p10305352.jpg

Octobre 2011
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/9018/panolille1221011.jpg

novembre 2011
http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/2851/panolille1.jpg

decembre 2011
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/4233/p1040338z.jpg

janvier 2012
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4750/p1040485f.jpg

fevrier 2012
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/7615/panolille1fev12.jpg

Final report
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/4417/lille20111225221112.jpg

playolive

February 27th, 2012, 12:53 AM

11 juin :
http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/7442/p1020378sch.jpg

19 juillet
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/2663/p1020605sch.jpg

19 Août
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/6064/panodevantaout11.jpg

24 septembre
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/4375/p1030545sch.jpg

22 octobre
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/9426/panodevant221011.jpg

25 novembre
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/2893/panodevant.jpg

26 décembre
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/8163/p1040322stitch.jpg

30 janvier 2012
http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/2152/panojanv12stmaclou.jpg

26 fevrier 2012
http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/4779/panostmacloufev12.jpg

rendu final
http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/8151/lille20111225220012.jpg

playolive

February 27th, 2012, 12:54 AM

11 juin
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/7545/p1020386m.jpg

19 juillet
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/6412/p1020611n.jpg

19 Août
http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/5471/p1030339.jpg

24 septembre
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/9937/p1030547fw.jpg

22 octobre
http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/7264/p1030692g.jpg

25 novembre
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/9700/panodevant2.jpg

26 décembre
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4415/p1040329k.jpg

30 janvier
http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/2240/p1040481j.jpg

26 fevrier 2012
http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/9642/p1040528m.jpg

rendu final
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/605/lille20111226161819g.jpg

Axelferis

February 27th, 2012, 10:07 AM

Works in progress:

http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/02/27/120227101121318463.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120227101121318463.jpg)
http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/02/27/120227095119311954.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120227095119311954.jpg)
http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/02/27/12022709520791249.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=12022709520791249.jpg)
http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/02/27/120227095308568215.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120227095308568215.jpg)
http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/02/27/12022709535435985.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=12022709535435985.jpg)
http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/02/27/120227095438414255.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120227095438414255.jpg)
http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/02/27/12022709554527450.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=12022709554527450.jpg)
http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/02/27/12022709562855432.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=12022709562855432.jpg)
http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/02/27/120227095741375186.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120227095741375186.jpg)
http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/02/27/120227095845950218.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120227095845950218.jpg)
http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/02/27/1202270959306212.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=1202270959306212.jpg)
http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/02/27/120227100011265206.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120227100011265206.jpg)
http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/02/27/120227100057461469.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120227100057461469.jpg)
http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/02/27/120227100203949715.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120227100203949715.jpg)
http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/02/27/12022710024954260.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=12022710024954260.jpg)
http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/02/27/120227100334875412.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120227100334875412.jpg)
http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/02/27/12022710042464405.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=12022710042464405.jpg)
http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/02/27/120227100516399804.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120227100516399804.jpg)

http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/02/27/120227100659567077.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120227100659567077.jpg)
http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/02/27/120227100748297978.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120227100748297978.jpg)
http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/02/27/120227100850262755.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120227100850262755.jpg)
http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/02/27/120227101003911017.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120227101003911017.jpg)

mossimoh

February 27th, 2012, 09:18 PM

Nice, especially with a roof!

Axelferis

March 2nd, 2012, 05:56 PM

elisa facebook official pics:

http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/03/02/120302060529350813.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120302060529350813.jpg)

http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/03/02/120302060637976002.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120302060637976002.jpg)

http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/03/02/120302060707340316.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120302060707340316.jpg)

playolive

March 9th, 2012, 02:21 PM

some pics

thanks to rappha59 from http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ligue1/lille-grand-stade-lille-metropole-t24-8985.html

03/07

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/11580

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/11579

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/11577

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/11576

03/08
http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/11601

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/11598

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/11596

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/11616

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/11608

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/11606

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/11605

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/11603

playolive

March 9th, 2012, 02:23 PM

some pics from official facebook https://www.facebook.com/pages/Grand-Stade-Lille-M%C3%A9tropole-Officiel/272499799459997?sk=wall

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/426787_345054608871182_272499799459997_985720_1567049812_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/421323_345054698871173_272499799459997_985721_1122133166_n.jpg

Gottardi

March 10th, 2012, 05:46 AM

Does anyone know the cost of the retractable pitch?

Slam321

March 12th, 2012, 08:58 PM

No, sorry there is'nt any detail of this cost

Some new pics with the visit of David Douillet (ex Olympic champions of Judo)who is now the Sport minister.

http://www.footlille.com/medias/thumbnails/galeries//Evenements/Saison_2011-2012/12-mars-2012-Visite-David-Douillet-Grand-Stade/LOSC04.jpg?w=600&h=400
http://www.footlille.com/medias/thumbnails/galeries//Evenements/Saison_2011-2012/12-mars-2012-Visite-David-Douillet-Grand-Stade/LOSC05.jpg?w=600&h=400
http://www.footlille.com/medias/thumbnails/galeries//Evenements/Saison_2011-2012/12-mars-2012-Visite-David-Douillet-Grand-Stade/LOSC06.jpg?w=600&h=400
http://www.footlille.com/medias/thumbnails/galeries//Evenements/Saison_2011-2012/12-mars-2012-Visite-David-Douillet-Grand-Stade/LOSC07.jpg?w=600&h=400
http://www.footlille.com/medias/thumbnails/galeries//Evenements/Saison_2011-2012/12-mars-2012-Visite-David-Douillet-Grand-Stade/LOSC08.jpg?w=600&h=400
http://www.footlille.com/medias/thumbnails/galeries//Evenements/Saison_2011-2012/12-mars-2012-Visite-David-Douillet-Grand-Stade/LOSC09.jpg?w=600&h=400
http://www.footlille.com/medias/thumbnails/galeries//Evenements/Saison_2011-2012/12-mars-2012-Visite-David-Douillet-Grand-Stade/LOSC10.jpg?w=600&h=400
http://www.footlille.com/medias/thumbnails/galeries//Evenements/Saison_2011-2012/12-mars-2012-Visite-David-Douillet-Grand-Stade/LOSC11.jpg?w=600&h=400
http://www.footlille.com/medias/thumbnails/galeries//Evenements/Saison_2011-2012/12-mars-2012-Visite-David-Douillet-Grand-Stade/LOSC12.jpg?w=600&h=400
http://www.footlille.com/medias/thumbnails/galeries//Evenements/Saison_2011-2012/12-mars-2012-Visite-David-Douillet-Grand-Stade/LOSC13.jpg?w=600&h=400

Slam321

March 13th, 2012, 07:48 PM

Some aerial pics which dates 2 weeks ago
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/428331_347568851953091_272499799459997_991926_1907160093_n.jpg

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/430075_347569441953032_272499799459997_991929_517047669_n.jpg

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/422114_347569895286320_272499799459997_991934_906058521_n.jpg

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/420391_347570091952967_272499799459997_991936_931570934_n.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/417318_347570875286222_272499799459997_991937_728750171_n.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/417318_347570875286222_272499799459997_991937_728750171_n.jpg

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/421280_347571238619519_272499799459997_991941_1977817822_n.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/418520_347571345286175_272499799459997_991942_1079789254_n.jpg

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/419616_347571455286164_512160715_n.jpg

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/422599_347571591952817_272499799459997_991946_330402873_n.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/427425_347571711952805_272499799459997_991949_915133352_n.jpg

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/429873_347571821952794_272499799459997_991950_1917689375_n.jpg

Sebast

March 13th, 2012, 08:01 PM

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/du-niveau-2-sur-la-boite-a-spectacle/thumb/11815

playolive

March 14th, 2012, 05:44 PM

awesome :banana:

tommassi

March 14th, 2012, 06:02 PM

Whoa. I liked the stadium... but with these las few photos it's starting to look a little bit too cavernous for my taste. Too dark, not enough natural light in it. Don't know...

Pragmatus

March 14th, 2012, 06:24 PM

I think the roof can be more open than that (?).
Natural light won't be a problem for evening games. It may be a problem for the pitch though.

DimitriB

March 14th, 2012, 07:11 PM

amazing !!!

Axelferis

March 14th, 2012, 09:29 PM

pics from inside by benoit59 from infostades.fr

http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/03/14/120314083607448488.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120314083607448488.jpg)

http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/03/14/120314083707229830.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120314083707229830.jpg)

http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/03/14/12031408373449564.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=12031408373449564.jpg)

http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/03/14/120314083805281419.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120314083805281419.jpg)

http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/03/14/120314083835589510.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120314083835589510.jpg)

http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/03/14/120314083920153793.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120314083920153793.jpg)

http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/03/14/120314083943458337.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120314083943458337.jpg)

http://nsa22.casimages.com/img/2012/03/14/120314084024361777.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120314084024361777.jpg)

Axelferis

March 14th, 2012, 11:18 PM

from elisa official facebook:

Workers putting the waterproof lay on the top of the retractable "spectacle box"

http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2012/03/14/120314102533409705.jpg (http://www.casimages.com/img.php?i=120314102533409705.jpg)

playolive

March 16th, 2012, 05:58 PM

new pics from official facebook http://www.grandstade-lillemetropole.com/
and https://www.facebook.com/pages/Grand-Stade-Lille-M%C3%A9tropole-Officiel/272499799459997?sk=wall

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/11955

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/11956

Thks to van basten from http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ligue1/lille-grand-stade-lille-metropole-t24-10590.html

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/11959

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/11957

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/11965

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/11964

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/c-est-le-printemps/thumb/11963

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/11962

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/11961

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/11960

Slam321

March 22nd, 2012, 08:37 PM

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/12210
http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/12209
http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/12208
They put seats on the "show box", the rest of seats will be put at the begining of april.

playolive

March 22nd, 2012, 09:42 PM

the article :

http://www.grandstade-lillemetropole.com/cms/mars-2012.html

March 2012: News Item World Cup stadium

Work of the new stadium:

February 18: end of the laying of the 62 plagues high envelope stage. All framing members are well placed now.

February 22: removing the first anti-poaching storm underneath the south mégapoutre cross. Other braces, large metal structures oranges that were used to maintain the structure during high winds are dismantled since mid-March (see photo 1). Indeed, all the plagues (low and high) in place, the braces are no longer necessary for the stability of the structure, now that all the plagues has landed.

February 23: the laying of the first polycarbonate tubes has started on the East side. 33 km of tubes are required to form the envelope of all the new stadium: 12 500 units. 13 000 sleeves will be used to hang these items down the 66 plagues. This operation will last four months (see photo 2).

To date, 1,300 people work daily on the site.

Coming up:

The installation of 50,000 seats the stadium will start in early April, they will be degraded light gray around the lawn and in the gray fly high to disappear from view under the roof.

Work of the Box Entertainment:

The 5,500 seats in the Box Shows are being laid on telescopic stands to make car in the pit gauges vary the shows (see photo 3).

Seams in the metal shelf of the Box Entertainment is now closed. As for the mechanical elements (triangular structures placed on the shelf width), they are being assembled. These elements allow to roll the tray of half-meter by 60 meters to the rails and onto the southern half of the ground (see photo 4).

o.S.T.mus.tis.nt.

March 23rd, 2012, 12:21 AM

http://www.info-stades.fr/forum/ressources/image/thumb/12210

Is this the final distance between the stands?
If it is, how will the people get to the stands?

rmsg

March 23rd, 2012, 04:34 PM

I still can't believe that this stadium is for 50000. It looks like 30000-35000.

kronofr

March 23rd, 2012, 04:42 PM

I still can't believe that this stadium is for 50000. It looks like 30000-35000.

look carrefully on the left of the last photo.
Some stands are missing.
It will be truly a 50K stadium.

Evil78

March 23rd, 2012, 05:07 PM

I still can't believe that this stadium is for 50000. It looks like 30000-35000.
I think together with the indoor-sports court. In football mode, probably about 35k...:dunno:

Pragmatus

March 23rd, 2012, 06:46 PM

No : 50K for soccer

b5254

March 24th, 2012, 12:17 AM

How about the naming of the arena? Any news?

And when will the first football game be played? What teams?

Andre_idol

March 24th, 2012, 01:05 AM

I still can't believe that this stadium is for 50000. It looks like 30000-35000.

Was about to say the same...

Anyway, can´t wait to see that thingy work :banana:

Also, do the "tubes" of the cladding have lights (LED) on them?

Jex7844

March 24th, 2012, 01:28 AM

Wow, great set of pics guys...:)

Le Grand Stade is a jewell, I'm looking forward to seeing it for real once finished.

By the way, what are the workers installing on the facade, are they neons?

:cheers:

Pragmatus

March 24th, 2012, 09:49 AM

How about the naming of the arena? Any news?

And when will the first football game be played? What teams?

Naming : work in progress (I guess)
First football : it is planned for July 2012, with the new L1 season. It will be of course the LOSC (Lille team) against another L1 team.

SpicyMcHaggis

March 24th, 2012, 09:53 PM

Is the basketball/handball part going to be used by any of the clubs (at least for major games) or is it mainly for bigger international events (Eurobasket etc) and concerts?

Fizmo1337

March 24th, 2012, 10:34 PM

Naming : work in progress (I guess)
First football : it is planned for July 2012, with the new L1 season. It will be of course the LOSC (Lille team) against another L1 team.Would be nice to see Lille play the future team of Hazard as a way to officialy open the new stadium.

Pragmatus

March 24th, 2012, 11:33 PM

I think it won't be possible cause they may be short of time for the first game of the season...

sgroutage

March 24th, 2012, 11:50 PM

del

parcdesprinces

March 25th, 2012, 12:57 AM

How is this stadium being funded?
By the club or state?

By Lille Municipality via Eiffage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eiffage).

playolive

March 25th, 2012, 01:49 AM

Naming : work in progress (I guess)
First football : it is planned for July 2012, with the new L1 season. It will be of course the LOSC (Lille team) against another L1 team.

first match planned for august 2012 ;)

sgroutage

March 25th, 2012, 11:17 AM

del

parcdesprinces

March 25th, 2012, 03:04 PM

^^ It's a public-private partnership (Eiffage + the Lille local authorities)

So, yes, the LOSC will lease the stadium to... Eiffage actually (Eiffage being the stadium operator for the next three decades...)

Axelferis

March 25th, 2012, 03:22 PM

Losc pays 7 million €/year to play there
They forecast at least 20-25 millions € /year with matchday revenues.

I think it was the good thing to not have the whole debt only for the stadium and just rent it.

But, if rumours of emirati (abu dhabi) are true (michel seydoux according to the rumours want to sell his shares to a rich emirati owner) why not imagine that the stadium could be took over by new owners ...

But for the moment the club is well managed and have the most well paid player of the Ligue 1 (Eden hazard)

For the "non believers" of a 50k feeling you must have in mind that the constructor had restrictions and avoid to have farest seats.

You just have to chack the virtual tour to realize the view is very good and we don't have some cable in the 4 corners of stadiums like some has somewhere in Europe ;)

This stadium is not only thought for football , that's why you can't have "valencia"esque seats to attend a basket or handball match.
We have an integrated indoor there and this was why the reason of the first slow slope.

Just wait june or july to see the result.

sgroutage

March 25th, 2012, 03:47 PM

del

b5254

March 25th, 2012, 04:27 PM

What events are already decided to be held at this arena?

Axelferis

March 25th, 2012, 07:08 PM

Those forecasts are very poor Axelferis, not even close to the Deloitte Football Money League Top 20!

On a par with some English 2nd division clubs.

Its a shame French clubs don't try to purchase their own stadiums, the increased revenues might help them compete!

We are in france and don't have the same mentality or passion sorry.

those forecasts are based on 25 000 regular tickets/season

If they can reach one day 35000-38000 be assured that around 30 millions € /season is matched.

Do you know how many millions € they produce on matchday for the moment at satdium nord?

poorly 5 millions €! :ohno:
You realize the "jump" they make by coming in this new stadium (500% growth on tickets :nuts: )

The budget this year was around 85 million.We are from far from english clubs which generate big cash and debts.

Are you happy to know that english and spanish clubs are the target of "financial fair play" ?

If you aren't man city you cannot survive.

Our french clubs are well controlled because we have the basis of rules which definite finacial fair play since decades.

The problem in England is inflation when you can pay 800000£/month some guys who don't play :bash:

We don't need to generate 80 million € on matchdays to pay overrated players ;)

What events are already decided to be held at this arena?

-footbal (losc matches)
-concerts (madonna promotors took informations)
-indoor(handball championship world 2017 will be there too)

Hansadyret

March 26th, 2012, 07:13 AM

We don't need to generate 80 million € on matchdays to pay overrated players ;)

You need to if you want to compete in champions league:)

What will happen to ligue1 clubs if Hollande wins the elections and taxes the best paid players 75%?

Axelferis

March 26th, 2012, 02:21 PM

this 75% is a joke :lol:

I don't think he 'll apply it.He recognized this tax would bring 'only' 350 million/year

It is a electoral context and he says this to please to popular working classes.

such stupid idea won't benefit to our country.

And to be competitive in Champions league you need to keep our young national players who want the premier league as a first choice.

I'm sorry to repeat but it's not good to envy countries which have clubs with billions debts.

It's not a safe business model.

In US sports you have a salary cap to avoid manchester united or valencia cf situations.

We don't need this inflation on wages. Yes the premier league is the most spectacular and viewed championship but please it's not in a goo economic situation.

playolive

March 27th, 2012, 04:32 PM

a video from losc's official website

interview of business director of losc at "grand stade"

http://www.losc.fr/losc-tv/videos/grand-stade-lengouement-des-abonnes

playolive

March 30th, 2012, 04:48 PM

some pics from official facebook : https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.357416314301678.78709.272499799459997&type=1

:banana::banana:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/528370_357417444301565_272499799459997_1017895_1459405768_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/525548_357418074301502_272499799459997_1017900_1544200469_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/547969_357418594301450_272499799459997_1017903_2047701213_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/385692_357418880968088_272499799459997_1017905_638581074_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/559953_357419127634730_272499799459997_1017907_1580691379_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/530671_357419184301391_272499799459997_1017908_815014050_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/485341_357419267634716_272499799459997_1017909_164891631_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/533914_357419347634708_272499799459997_1017910_852608612_n.jpg