The Asian Century is a term used to describe the belief that, if certain demographic and economic trends persist, the 21st century will be dominated by Asian politics and culture, similarly to how the 20th century is often called the American Century, and the 19th century the British Century.

Our Asian neighbors and the Asian Century


Remember the "Asian Century"? Back in 1998 it seemed to have ended even before it had begun. The so-called Asian Tigers had collapsed almost as suddenly as they had arrived on the world economic scene. Pessimists argued it was all a bubble and that rebuilding would take a decade or more.

Here we are in 2004 and it's time to talk about the Asian Century once more. But this time we are talking about an Asian Century that's very different from the one envisioned five years ago. Now the giant in the left-hand corner is China, growing in leaps and bounds, gorging itself on steel and other commodities from around the world.

But the even more unexpected development is that India has suddenly become part of the Asian Century. Call it India Shining, India Rising or whatever you will, it's a development that the world hadn't really foreseen. An economically powerful

India would be, "the second pole" that would make the region more powerful than anyone had imagined.

Now, everyone is rapidly redoing their calculations. As Jean-Pierre Verbiest, assistant chief economist, Asian Development Bank said in early December: "New and very large tigers are growing up. PRC (China) has now joined the group, and India is increasingly on its way to join, and will do so in the decade to come. Together, the new and old tigers will make the twenty-first century Asia's century."

India is never going to be an 800-pound gorilla like China -- at least not in the near future. But it could become a powerful 500-pound beast that will pull far more economic weight than anyone had ever expected back in the early '90s when its foreign reserves were still in the single-digit billions.

Is this pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking? Let's say it won't happen overnight -- and, as always, there are lots of ifs and buts. India's interaction both with China and South-east Asia are still at relatively low levels. But there are signs of a fast pick up.

India-China trade has, for instance, climbed from a paltry $300 million in the early '90s to around $5 billion. Similarly, two-way Indo-Asean trade is around $12 billion currently, but the Government is convinced it will climb to $30 billion in three years.

These figures are important because the Asian century is looking a whole lot different from what it did five years ago. That era depended heavily on exports by the South-East Asian nations to richer countries like the United States. Today's Asian Century will be fuelled by entirely different factors.

Firstly, there will be inter-regional trade among countries like India, China and the smaller nations of the region. Verbiest points out that "Typically, for all these regional economies, the share of total exports going to China has doubled since the start of 2000. China has already overtaken the US as the main export market for Korea (about 20 per cent of Korea's exports)."

Verbiest adds: "Long-term growth estimates indicate that the size of India's economy could reach about $1 trillion a decade from now, about double today's size. In a decade, China and India together would have an economy about the size of that of Japan today, but a fast expanding and dynamic economy."

For once the Indian government appears to understand the opportunities that are coming its way. When Atal Bihari Vajpayee addressed Asean earlier this year his speech was all about bits, bytes and the need to boost trade. Also, the Government is talking about free trade zones with countries like Thailand.

Back in the early '90s, Fortune wrote a lengthy cover story on the Asian miracle without even once mentioning India even tangentially. Today, somebody has started a magazine called Asian Century -- and it talks about everything from Bangalore's software professionals to Indian shopping malls.

Says the magazine editorial: "The fastest-growing technology companies in the world are Asian -- Wipro, Huawei, ZTE, Samsung and Infosys. And lately, we see that the buyers of what were previously American-funded regional infrastructures -- the Flag Telecoms, the Global Crossings and so on -- are Asian."

Any of those names sound familiar?

The Asian Century, again.
The Philippine Star
July 9, 2007


Our busy ex-president, Fidel V. Ramos has organized a lecture on “10 Years After The Asian Financial Crisis” on July 18, 2007. This could be interesting if controversial questions were to be asked. The written invitation is entitled “Where Are We Now?”. It then enumerates a number of questions. How did we survive the 1997 Asian financial crisis? Why have we lost our edge over our Asian neighbors since our emergence from the crisis? What is being done by both the private sector and government to regain the ground we lost due to the crisis?

The date of the lecture, July 18, is the same day that IMF approved a credit of $1billion to the Philippines to help stave off the effects of the crisis in 1997. The former president must be remembering those days when at the tail-end of his single presidential term so carefully nurtured to bring up the Philippines to emerging tiger he had to bow out in the midst of a crisis not of his or the country’s making.

The question is whether such a meltdown which caused so many bankruptcies and loss of jobs across Asia can happen again? It especially hurts because it was about the time that media were full of articles on the coming Asian Century. It was totally unexpected.

Contrary to received wisdom it did not begin with Thailand but with Japan when it hinted in early May 1997 that it might raise interest rates to defend the yen. Although the threat did not happen, global investors began to sell Southeast Asian currencies and set off a tumble both in currencies and local stock markets. On July 2 after using $33 billion in foreign exchange, Thailand announced a managed float of the baht. The Philippines also intervened to defend the peso. Malaysia did more than that and did not suffer meekly the onslaught on the currencies of the region.

Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir went on the attack and accused “rogue speculators”. He singled out financier George Soros and called him a ‘moron’. He would later take back his accusation but the shot had been fired. Others picked it up and pointed to conspiracy theories on just how and why it happened. After all, at that time Asia was in a roll. Pfft went the first announcements of an Asian century. I remember Asian specialist Robert Elegant writing a book on the ‘Asian Century’ that warned the West, particularly America it did not know enough of the region. Well, it never came to that. Mahathir told delegates to the IMF/World Bank annual conference in Hong Kong that currency trading is “immoral and should be stopped” and described his foreign critics as “cockerels crowing arrogantly but with the tail-feathers mired in feces.” George Soros answered, “Dr. Mahathir is a menace to his own country.”

Before long besieged Asian countries were knocking for help at IMF’s door. At the APEC Summit, leaders of the 18 Asia Pacific economies endorsed a framework to cope with financial crises. It was not Asia alone that was hurting as the contagion spread to other countries including Russia and Brazil. Analysts, in remembering 1997 are quick to point out that many improvements have since been made among them regulatory transparency and supervisory oversight, corporate governance, risk management, and the quality of economic data. Likewise central banks were made more independent and government debt reined in.

Across Asia, governments saw how current account deficits in trade and investment flows can make them dangerously vulnerable. Through the years reforms put their economic houses in order, focusing on improving investment policies on export capacity, maintaining low currency values and building current-account surpluses. Among the measures taken the most notable is accumulating massive amounts of foreign exchange reserves. In this China leads with its central bank holding more than $1 trillion. After the financial crisis governments in the Philippines and Indonesia encouraged greater foreign capital flows through major investments. So lessons were learned.

But more significantly Asian countries want a bigger say in the world’s financial system instead of being left to its mercies in a crunch. When asked what Asian countries have done since David Kang, who teaches about the Asian political economy at Dartmouth said in a recent TV interview that a similar crisis in 1997 is unlikely to happen. “Asian countries have created their own center of economic stability since the time of the Asian financial crisis. They’ve done two things. The first one is to horde currency reserves, particularly US dollars, in massive amounts - hundreds of billions of dollars - to make sure that they don’t have a balance of payments crisis like they did in ’97. China leads the pack with almost a trillion dollars. The second thing that they’ve done has . . . begin to work within themselves to try and create more trade zones, and not exclusively within Asia - they’re trying to make free trade zones with United States. But in many ways they’ve decided that they have to, you know, take their own economic futures into their own hands. So are we to see finally the long predicted Asian century?

Business heads urge Asia to start showing global leadership
Inquirer Business

SINGAPORE -- (UPDATE) Asia must start to take a leading role in tackling pressing global issues including climate change, business chiefs said Sunday at the World Economic Forum on East Asia.

The region's increased economic might has resulted in higher expectations for Asian countries to come together and play a bigger part on the world stage, they said at the start of the two-day forum.

"There is a perception, I think well established in the world, that the 21st century is going to see a growing Asian leadership and one of the objectives of these two days' meeting is talking about the Asian leadership and what does it mean," said Carlos Ghosn, president and chief executive of carmakers Renault and Nissan.

Despite its economic success, Asia is still perceived by the international community as lacking the common ground that would allow it to tackle global challenges, Ghosn said.

"Today there is a perception that when you take Japan, China, India, Korea, Southeast Asia, the common things shared by the different countries are not substantial enough," Ghosn said at a media briefing held on the sidelines of the WEF.

"People would like to know how all these countries are going to be able to establish one agenda, one common agenda, particularly to address some of the common concerns that the world has," he said.

E. Neville Isdell, chairman and chief executive of the Coca-Cola Company, also called for a larger Asian voice on the future of the global trading system that has benefited the region in the last decade.

"The one that I want to focus on is really the world trading system and how that has benefited Asia to such a major degree because we all know the wonderful story of the number of people who have come out of poverty in the last 20 years," said Isdell.

"We sit here today with considerable bad news over the latest discussions around the Doha Round and I think that certainly I would appeal to members of ASEAN to have become more involved for their voices to be heard, and clearly, with regard to the Doha Round," he said, referring to the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations.

The Doha round of global trade talks is currently stalled due mainly to deep differences over agricultural subsidies and trade tariffs among the key trading powers.

The multilateral talks, dubbed the Doha Development Round, were launched in the Qatari capital Doha in 2001 with the intention of ensuring that poor countries taste the fruits of freer global trade.

In her opening address to the forum, Philippines President Gloria Arroyo said the region had a number of able leaders as well as institutions such as the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) that give it direction.

"The real issue is the rapid economic rise of the region at a time when the global order has undergone enormous swings," she said, citing the rise of China and India as well as the influence of "the global war on terrorism" on the US role in the world.

"The US is the major political and military player. It has been preoccupied in the Middle East, in Iraq, in other crisis areas. This has left the perception of a leadership deficit in Asia," she said.

China and Japan have "stepped up their game," notably over the crisis on the Korean peninsula, she said. China and Japan are among six nations which have held talks aimed at resolving a standoff over North Korea's nuclear program.

"Yet this is the interim game: The real issue is how the region will handle the next 20 or 40 years," Arroyo said, calling for Japan to play a leading role in promoting the integration and security of East Asia.

"We would also like to see Japan playing a leading role in contributing to integration in the region, and maintaining and pursuing international peace and security as we try to forge the East Asia community," she said.

Japan, China and India are active in the East Asia Summit, which promotes community building and a political, economic and security dialogue between ASEAN and its regional partners.

The leadership obligations of China and India will also increase along with their economic might, Arroyo added.

She said the region faced a series of contradictions including increased integration and prosperity that exists alongside the likelihood of greater income disparity.

"Balancing these contradictions will be the test of leadership in the region," she said.
Other delegates also cited income disparities and said key problems faced by the world's fastest-growing region included urban congestion, poor education, and inadequate infrastructure.
Ghosn said the only point at issue was how Asia is going to assume global leadership, and how fast.

"There is no doubt that...this century is going to be the Asian century," Ghosn said. "We are still at the beginning of the century. You still have 92 years to go.

So here's the question, with the economic reforms and developments happening in our country......ARE WE READY FOR THE ASIAN CENTURY?

there's no Asian Century, today it's more to Global Century. I read Dr. M's book he said it's not Asian Century as people had predicted before.

If China and India's current economic growth could be sustained - yes, an "Asian Century". Would the Philippines be ready to take advantage of this? Well, we have to maintain close ties with both China and India. Our Filipino Chinese would play an important role. We also probably have to open up more to India and Indians.

there's no Asian Century, today it's more to Global Century. I read Dr. M's book he said it's not Asian Century as people had predicted before.

Dr. M? as in Mahathir Mohamed?!! I thought he was the one who originally envisioned a united Asia...isn't that a bit conflicting, I always thought he's pro-Asian that's all?!!

The "Global Spotlight" is clearly on Asia, and not even the US can deny that, I reckon in the future, global economic and political policies will be heavily influenced by Asia. China along with India will become huge consumers of raw materials and resources, and the Philippines is in perfect position to take advantage of that. I think the rise of those two Asian Giants will ultimately lift the whole region, SEA in particular (population obviously play a huge part).

he's indeed a pro asian and united asian but he doesnt see this as Asian Century...i forget the title of the book. He said that this century is not asian alone but for the whole world. Which clearly yes, we see united states and its allies policing the world, india with their it genuises and china flexing their economic prowess. when all globalization take place soon, it's not just by asian countries, but for all countries to compete on a level playing field.

a united asian does not necessarily mean that asian conquering the world in economy and military might and political. the world will be balanced by US power and Asia with their emerging and mature economy. and let's not forget europe.

Global century....

Kahit anu pang century yan, Century Tuna, Century egg or whatever, the Philippines should always be prepared to tag along. Kawawa kasi tayo, di tayo makagawa ng sariling wave on our own.

The "Global Spotlight" is clearly on Asia, and not even the US can deny that, I reckon in the future, global economic and political policies will be heavily influenced by Asia. China along with India will become huge consumers of raw materials and resources, and the Philippines is in perfect position to take advantage of that. I think the rise of those two Asian Giants will ultimately lift the whole region, SEA in particular (population obviously play a huge part).

Correct. While our politicians are busy debating about Garci, impeachment, etc. Australia is positioning itself as part of Asia in order to benefit economically from this "Asian century". Australia has successfully captured the Chinese tourist and overseas students market (billions of dollars of export/year). Australia's robust economic growth at the moment has also got a lot to do with their mineral exports to China.
Darwin in the state of Northern Territory is being promoted by the Australian government as the "Asian gateway". Many big time Asian gamblers regularly fly down to Sydney Casino or Crown Casino (Melbourne) for a few days gambling. The money they spend would make our so called big time gamblers here look like beggars.

That's why I said this country got so much potential . We haven't even attracted the well heeled tourists yet.

Kahit anu pang century yan, Century Tuna, Century egg or whatever, the Philippines should always be prepared to tag along. Kawawa kasi tayo, di tayo makagawa ng sariling wave on our own.

century tuna is phil. made :D

Kahit anu pang century yan, Century Tuna, Century egg or whatever, the Philippines should always be prepared to tag along. Kawawa kasi tayo, di tayo makagawa ng sariling wave on our own.

Very good point and I agree 100%. The Philippines and the entire Filipino nation should not worry too much about where it is today economomically as compared to other nations. I think that that is not material at all at this point in the history of the Philippines. Instead the entire country should unite and work as hard as it can, and together, make the difficult political decisions in finding solutions that will improve the living standards of the majority of the people. If the country can do this collectively, there is no doubt in my mind that everthing else will fall into place.

Let us all remember that during the middle of the last century, we we were one of the leaders in Asia but it only took 2 generations to change all that. We can reverse this trend - we already have the right foundations in place - all it is going to take is to gather enough courage for our political leaders to make the difficult political decisions for the good of the many.

century tuna that is
caldereta, i like

century tuna that is
caldereta, i like


hot n spicy century tuna my favs

China and India along with smaller but not much less dynamicand rising economies South Korea, Indonesia and Vietnam the major engines propelling Asian economic growth.

It's just a pity that poor economic management, political instability, ethnic and religious divisions and heavy reliance on foreign remittance has turned the Philippines from being one of the most prosperous post-WW 2 Asian country into the state that it is today. I hope the Philippines will pick up its game for the sake of its people, of which the population growth is rising too rapidly for such a small landmass.

Dunno where to post this, maybe this thread is appropriate. Is this a sign of the Asian century?

BSP to support creation of Asian Monetary Fund
http://gmanews.tv/story/50397/BSP-to-support-creation-of-Asian-Monetary-Fund

The Bangko Sentral ng Pilipinas on Tuesday said it will support the creation of an Asian Monetary Fund, an idea that has been shot down by the International Monetary Fund, but which has been warmly accepted in the region.

BSP Gov. Amando M. Tetangco Jr told reporters that Asian central banks are already moving in the direction of creating a regional counterpart to the International Monetary Fund. Tetangco said that despite the objection of the IMF, regional central banks have realized the need for greater regional cooperation because economic relations within Asian countries have become even more intertwined.

"What is significant now, aside from financial facilities that could be provided by an AMF, is the regular policy dialogs. If there is any policy that needs to be discussed, it can be taken up for the good of the region as a whole," Tetangco said.

The proposal to create an AMF gained ground as central banks in the region raised fears of future financial shocks similar to the crisis that hit the region in 1997. Regional financial leaders believe that an AMF would be more adept at dealing with crisis the scope of what hit the region ten years ago.

"We will support such an initiative as long as we would avoid duplication. The role of such an organization should be complementary to what other multilateral agencies are already doing," Tetangco said.

"I can not over-emphasize the importance of regional cooperation. This was absent before the 1997 crisis and had it been present, a lot of it would have been avoided," he added.

The IMF was also under fire for prescribing economic and financial measures that affected the political balance in some countries in the region.

The AMF was initially proposed to be formalized out of the Chang Mai Initiative which was an offshoot of the Asean Swap Arrangement to include China, Japan and Korea. The AMF was intended to assisting member countries experiencing difficulties with their balance of payment, a move largely spearheaded by Japan.

Subsequent proposals expanded the AMF to include the US and other countries to form an Asia Pacific Monetary Fund intended to provide a regional complement for the IMF.

When it was first brought up, however, the IMF said it did not support the thinking that any region had unique requirements that would necessitate the creation of a regional monetary fund.

The criticisms against the IMF, especially during the 1997 crisis, on the other hand, stemmed from its inability to anticipate the contagion and wield its gigantic bureaucracy to be able to act quickly.

The AMF was seen as a possible institution that would be more immediately responsive to the region's concerns, especially in the institution of an early warning system.

It's good that the government is moving ahead to promote bilateral relations with ASEAN member-countries despite the present lukewarm participation of rich countries.

With Villar, a shrewd businessman, as the Senate president, I expect better performance from the chamber. Both chambers of Congress should work towards being less confrontational, with each other and with the executive branch. No more derailing important projects, which only frustrates investors - such as the Northrail project which was politicized by Drilon and Co., to the dismay of the Chinese.

I've read somewhere that it's just the start of the century. We still have a long way to go and it's very early to look into this Asian Century when we haven't even finished the first decade of the century. But heck! With all these signs and things falling into place, it's almost attainable. China and India are becoming the world's economic powers. ASEAN is an emerging trade bloc in the world. Most Asian countries befallen by the Asian Financial Crisis have overcome their problems. This is our time. I hope nothing hinders it. Or just yet.

It's good that the government is moving ahead to promote bilateral relations with ASEAN member-countries despite the present lukewarm participation of rich countries.

The movement is not within ASEAN alone. Remember, it's an Asian Monetary Fund that is likely to be established during the century. ASEAN+3 is readily moving to this establishment, with the South Asian trade bloc giving support to this endeavor. I hope this pushes thru, along with the free-trade agreement with ASEAN members. :)

^^

In response to your question the other day (somehow it went missing); Australia is geographically part of Asia hence "Australasia". But this does not guarantee that they could ride on the economic growth of the region. This is why Australia is promoting closer relations with China, India and Asia as a whole (to a slight disappointment of the US). While our politicians are busy about local "issues" (eg. Garci, election cheating, investigations, debates, etc.) Australia has a long term plan on how to capture the Chinese, Indian market. Darwin for example which is much closer to Indonesia than Sydney is being promoted as Australia's Asian gateway.

^^ I don't remember even mentioning Australia in my very single post in this thread. Are you referring to me?? :?

beats me bro...don't stress about it..

Ok lets compare our country's progress from our asian neighbors.

Continental Asian links:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=95


Our first neighbor to examine is VIETNAM.

Economy - overview:
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/vm.html#Econ
Vietnam is a densely-populated, developing country that in the last 30 years has had to recover from the ravages of war, the loss of financial support from the old Soviet Bloc, and the rigidities of a centrally-planned economy. Substantial progress was achieved from 1986 to 1997 in moving forward from an extremely low level of development and significantly reducing poverty. Growth averaged around 9% per year from 1993 to 1997. The 1997 Asian financial crisis highlighted the problems in the Vietnamese economy and temporarily allowed opponents of reform to slow progress toward a market-oriented economy. GDP growth averaged 6.8% per year from 1997 to 2004 even against the background of the Asian financial crisis and a global recession, and growth hit 8% in 2005 and 7.8% in 2006. Since 2001, however, Vietnamese authorities have reaffirmed their commitment to economic liberalization and international integration. They have moved to implement the structural reforms needed to modernize the economy and to produce more competitive, export-driven industries. Vietnam's membership in the ASEAN Free Trade Area (AFTA) and entry into force of the US-Vietnam Bilateral Trade Agreement in December 2001 have led to even more rapid changes in Vietnam's trade and economic regime. Vietnam's exports to the US doubled in 2002 and again in 2003. Vietnam joined the WTO in January 2007, following over a decade long negotiation process. This should provide an important boost to the economy and should help to ensure the continuation of liberalizing reforms. Among other benefits, accession allows Vietnam to take advantage of the phase-out of the Agreement on Textiles and Clothing, which eliminated quotas on textiles and clothing for WTO partners on 1 January 2005. Agriculture's share of economic output has continued to shrink, from about 25% in 2000 to 20% in 2006. Deep poverty, defined as a percent of the population living under $1 per day, has declined significantly and is now smaller than that of China, India, and the Philippines. Vietnam is working to create jobs to meet the challenge of a labor force that is growing by more than one million people every year. Vietnamese authorities have tightened monetary and fiscal policies to stem high inflation. Hanoi is targeting an economic growth rate of 7.5-8% during the next five years.

GDP (purchasing power parity):
$262.5 billion (2006 est.)
GDP (official exchange rate):
$48.43 billion (2006 est.)
GDP - real growth rate:
8.2% (2006 est.)
GDP - per capita (PPP):
$3,100 (2006 est.)

The way this country look at this time:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2302/1516027322_00c0f894d8_b_d.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2142/2154589862_49f3e8e117_b_d.jpg

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http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1025/1351843442_a2021bd67c_o_d.jpg

More photos from Vietnam:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2002/2155092496_8e342c19ff_b_d.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2006/2154593020_402c879814_b_d.jpg

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[IMG]http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1312/1462051281_bce053278e_b_d.jpg[/IMG

Ho Chi Minh's subway dreams
By David M Lenard

http://img124.exs.cx/img124/8126/hcmc-metro-map.gif

Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTjCZc11u-c


HO CHI MINH CITY - In the past five years, with the outside world paying little attention, Vietnam has made major progress in building key infrastructure facilities that will, in the not too distant future, help the nation to shed its reputation as one of Asia's least developed countries. For example, the My Thuan Bridge, a spectacular pre-stressed concrete suspension bridge, now connects 10 Mekong Delta provinces with Ho Chi Minh City (formerly Saigon). The Ho Chi Minh Highway, an expressway that will link Hanoi and Ho Chi Minh much further west than the current National Highway 1, is slowly snaking its way south from the capital. In central Vietnam, workers are steadily digging the Hai Van Pass tunnel, which will cut hours from the Hanoi-Ho Chi Minh road route by allowing truckers to pass under, rather than over, the immense mountains separating Danang from Hue. Hanoi itself boasts a spanking-new airport.

It is now Ho Chi Minh City's turn. Some time in 2005, the government has confirmed, ground will be broken in the southern commercial metropolis for Vietnam's first subway system. Rumors that a metro was planned for Ho Chi Minh City have circulated for years; the Vietnam edition of the Lonely Planet travel guide has been mentioning it since the mid-1990s. But gossip became official reality this June, when Prime Minister Phan Van Khai approved plans for the first two underground lines.

The need for better public transport is indisputable. Ho Chi Minh City's streets are choked with traffic, mostly motorbikes, which are packed handlebar-to-handlebar in rush hour. Economic development has only exacerbated congestion and its accompanying problems of air pollution, respiratory illnesses and vehicle accidents - all three of which are getting worse by the day.

In spite of horrendous traffic conditions, Ho Chi Minh has had one of the lowest public-transit usage rates of any Asian city. According to official studies, less than 5% of intra-city trips have used public transportation in recent years. During the late 1990s, nearly empty buses could frequently be seen trundling down the city's streets. In a kind of self-fulfilling spiral, these low passenger numbers persuaded government officials not to invest further in mass transit. In reality, the number of bus routes was so meager and the quality of the buses was so low (1950s-era buses could still be seen until just two years ago) that people living in Ho Chi Minh City simply preferred motorcycles as a more convenient and comfortable alternative.

In 2003, a brand-new, air-conditioned bus fleet suddenly materialized, and passenger numbers soared overnight. Prosperity in Ho Chi Minh City has also increased to the point where, for the first time in the country's history, significant numbers of Vietnamese are contemplating purchases of private cars. National auto-sales figures are low but heading rapidly upward. Because cars are so much less efficient than motorbikes, it is clear that the colonial-era street network simply cannot handle a substantial uptake of private cars. The looming transportation crisis seems to have spurred Hanoi into approving the metro project much sooner than many observers expected.

Lines 1 and 2
Construction is expected to begin next year on lines 1 and 2, which will both terminate on Ham Nghi Boulevard near Ben Thanh Market, a tourist landmark and transportation hub. Line 1, 10.6 kilometers in length with 11 stations, will head northwest from Ben Thanh on Cach Mang Thang Tam boulevard, skirting the western edge of Tan Son Nhat International Airport, before terminating at the Tham Luong bus terminal. Line 2, 10.4km with 11 stations, will also head northwest, sharing stations and track with Line 1 up to the Tao Dan station, before turning southwest on Nguyen Thi Minh Khai and Tran Phu streets, and continuing west into District 5, Ho Chi Minh City's historically Chinese district, known as Cholon. The line will continue west all the way through Cholon, into District 6, before terminating at the An Lac bus terminal in Binh Chanh district.

Surprisingly, it appears that Tan Son Nhat Airport will not be directly served even though Line 1 will travel at surface level so close to the runways that passengers will be able to see taxiing aircraft from the trains. According to Le Hong Ha, vice chairman of the DoCPW's (Department of Communications and Public Works) urban metro preparation unit, there are plans for an airport station eventually. However, the Vietnamese government also intends to build a new international airport on Ho Chi Minh City's outskirts and downgrade Tan Son Nhat to a domestic-only airport, so it is possible that officials simply do not see an airport station as a high priority right now.

Other lines
There are ambitious plans to expand the system further. Line 3 will travel from the intersection of Hung Vuong and Ly Thuong Kiet streets, in District 5, north to the Hoang Van Thu station of Line 1, ending at the Lang Cha Ca traffic circle in Tan Binh district. Line 4 (which, from the look of it, may turn out to be continuous with Line 3) will start at the Lang Cha Ca traffic circle and continue east under Hoang Van Thu Boulevard through Phu Nhuan district, along Phan Dang Luu and Bach Dang streets, before ending at Van Thanh Park in the eastern part of Binh Thanh district.

The exact route of Line 5 is unclear, especially in the downtown area; the route shown on the map is an educated guess. Published sources have said it will start at the Ben Thanh Market hub and proceed south/southeast from downtown, probably under Nguyen Tat Thanh street in District 4, before ending in the Ho Chi Minh City South new development area in District 7. However, an unpublished DoCPW planning map acquired by Asia Times appears to show this line also continuing northwest from downtown along Hai Ba Trung, Phan Dinh Phung and Nguyen Kiem streets, heading north into Go Vap district along Nguyen Oanh and Le Duc Tho streets, before terminating at National Highway 1A in the far north of the city. Finally, Line 6 will travel from the already mentioned Tao Dan station in District 1, northeast along Nguyen Thi Minh Khai and Xo Viet Nghe Tinh (Soviet Union) streets, before ending at the Mien Dong bus terminal in northern Binh Thanh district. The planning map appears to show that all six lines will ultimately be extended to distant suburbs of the city.

Planners also intend to eventually construct a staggering total of four ring roads to augment the two already built or under construction, additional axial roads, container ports, surface rail lines, and other facilities. Amazingly, a monorail system by Marubeni-Hitachi Corp is also under serious consideration. It is unclear where the monorail will run or to what extent it will be integrated with the subway system.

Construction timeline
The planning process for Lines 1 and 2 is much more advanced than for the rest of the system. Pre-feasibility studies were completed last year and more detailed full feasibility studies are now under way. According to Vietnamese news services, the government has already acquired 53 hectares in Tham Luong and Binh Chanh districts for the terminal depots of these two lines. A full technical survey, the last step before construction can begin, will follow. Several Vietnamese sources have stated that construction will begin in 2005. Vice chairman Le told Asia Times that construction would probably start by March.

Reports about completion dates have varied. Numerous reports have given 2010 as the target date. However, a more recent Vietnam News Service (VNS) story said the completion date for the first two lines had been moved up to 2007. Given the bureaucratic, financial and technical hurdles that remain, to say nothing of Vietnamese contractors' lack of experience with subway construction, meeting this more ambitious deadline while maintaining international standards of quality will be difficult.

For Lines 3-6, the picture is murkier. Le said the next four lines are still in the pre-feasibility study stage. However, when asked whether it would be wise to wait before Lines 1 and 2 are completed before initiating construction of other lines, he indicated that work may, in fact, begin on additional lines before the first two lines are complete, provided financing is found. The state media have avoided specific predictions about starting dates for Lines 3-6. However, given the five-year planning calendar used by Hanoi and the high level of foreign investment interest in these projects, it seems safe to assume that at least some work will be under way before 2015.

Foreign players
The Vietnamese press has mentioned many foreign companies in connection with the project. At the moment, the most important player appears to be Siemens, the German multinational conglomerate. In mid-2002, Siemens signed a memorandum of understanding (MoU) with Le Thanh Hai, chairman of the People's Committee of Ho Chi Minh City (a position equivalent to mayor), and is now considered the front-runner to become the prime contractor for Lines 1 and 2.

A Siemens source confirmed to Asia Times Online that the company intends to become a major contractor. However, final agreement has not yet been reached. The firm helped to arrange the completion of a pre-feasibility study for the two lines, which was conducted by the German government agency CEDIS and submitted to city officials this July. Siemens is now coordinating with the German government to arrange project financing since the Ho Chi Minh City government's budget will only cover 30% of the two lines' estimated US$876 million cost. Press reports have said that additional financing will be provided by the German and Austrian governments, a Chinese railway-construction group, and German banks, although financing arrangements are not finalized yet.

Russian firms, including Moskovski Metrostroy (Moscow Metro) Co and Jobrus Ltd, are also interested. Both companies have had extensive project-related dealings with Vietnamese officials and have signed MoUs for pre-feasibility studies, design and project financing. Vice chairman Le stated that the Russian firms probably would not be involved in Lines 1 and 2 but may become contractors for Lines 3-6. At the moment, they are conducting feasibility studies for other lines, which must be submitted by the end of 2005 for them to be considered for the construction of these lines.

Other foreign companies said to be interested in the project include Mitsui, Hitachi and Nissho Iwai (Japan), Systra and LOHR (France), Louis Berger (USA) and Samsung and Rotem (South Korea). Samsung intends to join forces with Rotem, a rolling-stock manufacturer, for at least one line and is now seeking Korean government loans to that end. Mitsui has met with Le Thanh Hai to discuss the subway project, and a Hitachi source said his company is interested in becoming a subcontractor in the future.

Construction plans
Ho Chi Minh City's location on a river delta has led to concerns about soft soil and potential flooding problems. But these concerns seem unfounded. Numerous expert sources, including vice chairman Le and Dr Mikhail Krestmein, leader of the Transportation Design Institute of Moscow, have said the city's geology will not present a problem. "The soil here is harder than the soil in Shanghai and San Francisco," according to Le, and both of those cities have built successful metro systems.

The lines themselves will be constructed about 20 meters underground using tunneling methods instead of the cheaper, but more disruptive, cut-and-cover technique. It appears that virtually all tracks will be laid under (or, in a few cases, over) major streets. Ho Chi Minh City's many wide, diagonal boulevards, which mostly follow the same routes laid out by colonial city planners in the 19th century, seem purpose-built for subway construction and the proposed lines will take full advantage of this. By tunneling under streets, contractors will avoid the need to condemn buildings above ground level; this will save both time and money since property owners will not have to be compensated.

System design
Little is known about the likely physical appearance of the system. Concept sketches, for example, have not been released. However, Le did say that the system "will conform to international standards". The lines will be color-coded, as with most subway systems, although the actual colors have not been decided upon and may differ from those on the Asia Times Online map. Le also stated that a special transit police force, as exists in the New York City system, might be put in place.

Certain other features of the metro are now known. For example, many reports have said that fares will be set at VND2,500 (about 16 cents). But Le said the fare amount remains to be determined though it will definitely be set low to attract riders, even if the system loses money as a result. The trains, which will run at 80km/h, will have a capacity of 700-1,000 passengers and will arrive every five minutes during peak hours. A common transit farecard, which can be used in buses as well, will be available; metro officials are said to be paying close attention to the issue of integration with the bus system.

Staff training
Since Vietnam lacks a pool of workers with metro-related skills and experience, training engineers and managers for the metro will present a significant challenge. In March, a training course by foreign experts was organized for 40 engineers and officials in Ho Chi Minh City. According to Le, Vietnamese universities such as the University of Transportation in Hanoi will have special departments dedicated to metro training in future. Officials have observed subway training institutions in Bangkok and in Russia and will presumably set up the Vietnamese system along the same lines. The government also intends to send students overseas to study rail engineering. Finally, some workers with the Vietnamese National Railroad will be retrained for metro duties.

David M Lenard is a freelance writer now working in Ho Chi Minh City.

(Copyright 2004 David Lenard)


Ho Chi Minh City readies for building of metro rail 03/01/2008 HCM City (VNA)

Construction of route No. 1 of the city’s underground rail system will begin this month, an official from the Ho Chi Minh City Urban Railway Project Management Unit has said. Tran Thi Anh Nguyet, deputy director of the city’s URPMU, said it would involve construction of the first station on the Ben Thanh-Suoi Tien line in District 9’s Long Binh ward.

The 19.7 km route will run from Ben Thanh Market in District 1, along Dien Bien Phu street in Binh Thanh district and the Ha Noi Highway , to Long Binh station. The first 2.6 km from Ben Thanh market in the downtown area would be built underground, she said.Nguyet said construction of the actual line would begin next year and the work would be completed in mid-2013.

According to the official, test runs were scheduled between July and December 2013 with the Ben Thanh-Suoi Tien route becoming operational in early 2014. She revealed that district agencies had begun paying compensation for houses and land taken over for the project, and the process would be completed this year.

The city’s Department of Transport and Public Works has said the lack of mass transport like metro was the reason for the worsening traffic congestion. With public transport meeting just five percent of the city’s transport needs, private transport, mainly private cars and motorbikes which account for the rest of the traffic, is not only blocking roads but also causing environmental problems.

Ha Noi Highways, which connects HCM City with Dong Nai and Ba Ria-Vung Tau provinces, faces serious traffic problems. Without a subway system, 5,000 buses are required daily to meet the rising demand for transportation on this route by 2010. This would mean a bus departing every 10 seconds.

Meanwhile, the metro will be able to carry some 526,000 passengers daily.

Nguyet said the metro would only cost a passenger 6,000 VND compared with 9,500 VND (at the current petrol price of 13,000 VND per litre) to travel the 20km between Ben Thanh and Suoi Tien by motorbike.

In April last year the city People’s Committee approved construction of the country’s first metro route between Ben Thanh and Suoi Tien at a cost of 1.1 billion USD, with 83 percent of it coming from Japanese aid.

The Japan Bank of International Cooperation will provide 904.7 million USD, and the city the rest. The city’s transport development master plan for the period until 2020 envisages developing three monorail lines totally measuring 37 km and six metro routes of a total length of 107 km at a cost of 5 to 6 billion USD. The city administration hopes the public transportation system will carry a quarter of the commuters by 2010 and 50 percent by 2020.-Enditem

More vietnamese progress infos here:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1003

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=588

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=568965

Vietnamese Highway & Toll:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2711703219807887029

Do you guys think this thread appropriates to put it here? I just do not want you guys to get any trouble from some sensitive nations.

what's the point of this thread? just coz we monitor it, doesnt mean we can change the fact that they're getting better than us. and if that's not the point of this thread, then it's in the wrong place because it's noting about the philippines.

Do you guys think this thread appropriates to put it here? I just do not want you guys to get any trouble from some sensitive nations.Certainly not. In this case, the Philippines is in the bad light not the nations you were talking about.

what's the point of this thread? just coz we monitor it, doesnt mean we can change the fact that they're getting better than us. and if that's not the point of this thread, then it's in the wrong place because it's noting about the philippines.No. I think I know what the thread starter has in his mind. It should not only be to monitor what other countries have but also to compare their policies and programs that made their country more prosperous than us. I hope that would be the case. I'm not interested about where these countries are now. I'm more interested on how they were able to achieve their goals.

I agree with XP. It doesn't always have to end in a bloody cvc. I think this thread is a good venue to to know how our neighbors are working, highlight the positive ones, and improve on the negative.

:lol: This thread should be renamed The Envy (Why Can't We Do That Too) Thread. Also, the word "monitor" conjures up an image of Big Brother watching, but we all know that we're not that in terms of our standing in Asia.

This is just my opinion and I'm entitled to it. :colgate:

^^hahaha... I agree. wahahah...

ako nagseselos na rin :lol:

^^nagseselos o baka naman naiinggit?

whoa. akala ko envy and jelousy pareho lang. nice. hehe.

anyway. now i dont know what i am. i may be envious.

Ok. Actually, I've been wracking my brain for several years now, thinking how these nations specifically Korea and Taiwan in the 70's, Thailand and Singapore in the 80's have surpassed us. They say we were the "2nd richest" in Asia in the 50's and 60's just behind Japan. And now, Viet Nam is poised to take over us by at least 10 years! What happened? Some say it is because of our protectionist policy that deters foreign investment. I've read something before about Import Substitution and Export Oriented growth policies. So what are those? Let the discussions begin!

envy [en-vee]
Noun A feeling of discontent or covetousness with regard to another's advantages, success, possessions, etc.

jeal·ous [jel-uhs]
Adjective Feeling resentment against someone because of that person's rivalry, success, or advantages.




www.dictionary.com

What's the point of reposting stuff from other countries here to "monitor" them. Just check out their branches and threads. You can discuss comparisons here if that's what you really want.

envy [en-vee]
Noun A feeling of discontent or covetousness with regard to another's advantages, success, possessions, etc.

jeal·ous [jel-uhs]
Adjective Feeling resentment against someone because of that person's rivalry, success, or advantages.




www.dictionary.com

way ahead of you. thanks tho. hehe. i use either one when i'm feeling either one.

I'm not interested about where these countries are now. I'm more interested on how they were able to achieve their goals.

^^ exactly.. this should be the scope and limitation of the thread. and i love how you put this issue into perspective. apir! :)

compared to our other Asian neighbors, i feel what we failed to accomplish and maintain is still the good standing of our educational system.. it abhors me that some people pass high school without even having a good backbone of our country's history, as well as having a verbose understanding of languages to play with.. but that is another story..

now, i agree that the budget for 2008 must be focused on infrastructure development, but i feel that the educational system must be secondary to the top priority. our asian neighbors have invested heavily on R&D, yet still we have failed to accomplish this... we must take a good look into positioning the philippines as the hub for education again..

I'm not sure if this thread should go on, we'll just post progress of our neighbors, whine about the depressing inefficiency and corruption of our government, and then back to step one. This thread will go absolutely nowhere fast.

@JP: hmmm... apir! hahaha... mahilig ka sa appear huh.. :jk:

Yes. We need to do something about our education. But I think the government is in the right track now with regards to arresting budget deficits so there would be more money to spend for social services and infrastructures.

@lou: Well, if we will just keep on whining then perhaps we should just close this thread. BUT if we would discuss something about programs and policies, then we would see something constructive. ;)

I am jealous, I should marry a Vietnamese. hehehe

I am jealous, I should marry a Vietnamese. hehehe

^^ Tama si AH-Raja, for putting up his post... Aminin na kasi natin na we're down, "System of the fuckin down".... Sa totoo lang inis na inis me magsusurf sa Vietnam thread. Afterwards, I admit it already and now I am enjoying their famous economic boom....

Ang gusto ko sana, wag po natin gamitin ang sobrang talino ng mga Pilipino. It's really too hard to think that we're too much intelligent peoples in SE Asia and yet we're suffering. Guys these people are just quiet and they are working.

My goodness, bawasan kaya natin ang sobrang yabang. We have to work it by heart and now is the best time.

Pag punta ko lang ng Japan, ang yayabang ng mga Pilipino doon. Akala mo kong sino. Shit! they don't even have a legal papers.

We're doing good now... Please naman, we have to help each other. Especially church people, they can save us not by pointing and blaming each other but helping government programs....

"Action speaks louder than voice..."

^^baka masyado mo lang iniisip na mayabang sila.
minsan kailangan ng konteng yabang hindi lang sobra. thin line between confidence and arrogance i guess.

i think it's a useless thread ,just creates cvc atmoshpere.
especially these other SE asian countries are so competitive and obsessed about rankings of SE asian GDP or who's gonna take over whom 10 , 20 years from now. they have countless threads about that.
besides you can just read about respective countries progress in their own forum, if you're really interested, why bother reposting it.

Sa totoo lang, medyo mababa ang pagtinging ng mga Pilipino sa mga Vietnamese... I guess it's time to change that...

Actually if you ask someone about Vietnamese, sagot nila mga mahihirap na nabiktima na gyerna ng Amerika at patuloy na naghihirap ngayon kasabay ng Cambodia at Laos... Tssskkkk....

Tingnan muna natin sarili siguro bago humusga sa iba...

$20b 2007 Foreign Investment sa Vietnam, nakakaingit di ba.... $2.1b lang for RP... Houston we have a problem... he he he.....

yeah that's true. at sinasabe pa nila na refugee. marami bang pinoy na mahilig manglait at mangmata, pero hindi naman lahat.

^^ That's true guys, but we can take advantages from them by learning economic process that's makes a stable economy...

Someday I'll be dreaming about the Philippines being a rich nation with approximately no family in the under poverty level.

Ang sarap gumising sa kinabukasan na ang lahat ay masaya...

mabilis kasi silang kumilos at gumawa, yun lang ang diprensyia. pag sinabeng gagawen, gagawen , kaya napapaniwala nila ang mga foreign investors. tayo unsad pagong.

Someday I'll be dreaming about the Philippines being a rich nation with approximately no family in the under poverty level.

Even rich industrialized nations deals with their own impoverished segment of the population. No nation is exempt from that.

isasarado ko na ba ang thread? ay, feeling mod ako. hehehe

^^ eh anong oras na ba ? bukas pa ang mga malls di ba?

isasarado ko na ba ang thread? ay, feeling mod ako. hehehe

If only you could, right? ;)

Vietnam grew about 8% in 2007, Philippines grew about 7% so really were not that far behind. In fact, we are still ahead of them in terms of GDP. So as of now, the Philippines still has the better economy but if we don't keep up with our infrastructure and anti-poverty plans, they will surely catch up to us and surpass us in the near future.

MOD, yeah i guess you can modify the title of this thread in anyway that should make it more appropriate, sorry i just couldn't find any better terms, so if u have something in ur mind which u think is better, pls. Thanks.

My thread is for studying how they were able to sustain their economic progress, and comparing the strategies that our neighbors have been doing for the last 20 yrs, hoping that our country can learn some lesson from them too. Because there are things that we might have been missing something that we should have been doing in the past.

Therefore, dont be envy with them, instead learn something and approach it with positive attitude. Be happy for our asian friends and appreciate their hard works, and they deserve an economic miracles.

^^ Tama si AH-Raja, for putting up his post... Aminin na kasi natin na we're down, "System of the fuckin down".... Sa totoo lang inis na inis me magsusurf sa Vietnam thread. Afterwards, I admit it already and now I am enjoying their famous economic boom....

Ang gusto ko sana, wag po natin gamitin ang sobrang talino ng mga Pilipino. It's really too hard to think that we're too much intelligent peoples in SE Asia and yet we're suffering. Guys these people are just quiet and they are working.

My goodness, bawasan kaya natin ang sobrang yabang. We have to work it by heart and now is the best time.

Pag punta ko lang ng Japan, ang yayabang ng mga Pilipino doon. Akala mo kong sino. Shit! they don't even have a legal papers.

We're doing good now... Please naman, we have to help each other. Especially church people, they can save us not by pointing and blaming each other but helping government programs....

"Action speaks louder than voice..."

Thanks for ur supportive attitude. I dont mean any harm here in any against our asian friends or to our fellow countrymen.

We cant just blame ourselves though for being too proud, because i believe this is just a hangover since we used to have something to be proud of before. Well that attitude is due to be changed though, kasi nagbabago na talaga ang tadhana. Its true, the vietnamese people are very humble and friendly, this is based on my experience, since i got a couple of vietnamese friends myself. So we should always respect our asian friends and be courteous to them. They earned it and they deserve it.

:cheers:

What's the point of reposting stuff from other countries here to "monitor" them. Just check out their branches and threads. You can discuss comparisons here if that's what you really want.

Thats one of the reason why im bringing their positive threads here for us to watch their progress, and not to insult us or make us envy (its up to us though) but for us to learn something. Anyway, there are no much pinoys who were regularly checking their threads, cuz we are too focused in here, so why not brining it closer to us? They have something that are considered as a good example to follow, such the likes of disciplines.

Thread renamed. :colgate:

south vietnam, like the philippines, had a culture of corruption. But it's likely that the corrupt vietnam war era officials have gone to the US or have been executed by now :lol:

What we can learn from our Asian neighbors: their economies, infrastructures, and other developments?

united states of souteast asia, one currency, open policy even to singapore etc etc in order to go head to head w/ humongous united states of a and united states of europe

Kahit dito sa amin sa Portland, very simple lang ang observation ko dito about Vietnamese and Filipinos.

Filipinos here would rather eat at a Vietnamese soup ("Pho") place than in a Pinoy restaurant. :D

Bakit? Kasi mura na, mas masarap pa ang luto ng mga Vietnamese restaurants. :lol:


Seriously, what we see on our neighbors are usually the things that we don't have. But those things that we have are not seen by our neighbors.....

King makita man nila kung ano meron tayo, puro kayabangan at kapalpakan ang sa atin.. :bash:

Nasa diyaryo pa at telebisyon minsan... :lol:

^^haha... hindi lang minsan, palagi kamo.

anyway, I love the new title of this thread.

So, ano ba talaga ang ginawa ng mga neighbors natin kaya sila umunlad? Ano yung mga major factr? Is it culture, politics, religion, etc? Any economist in the house?

^^ Economically beat your neighbors...

Honestly, not a single program of the church and private medias now really helps Filipino people. Infact they have participated so much in the downfall of the Philippines. tsskkk!!!!

Kahit Presidente, direktang minumura ng mga media men sa aire... :ohno:

Kahit dito sa amin sa Portland, very simple lang ang observation ko dito about Vietnamese and Filipinos.

Filipinos here would rather eat at a Vietnamese soup ("Pho") place than in a Pinoy restaurant. :D

Bakit? Kasi mura na, mas masarap pa ang luto ng mga Vietnamese restaurants. :lol:


masarap talaga ang pho. pag nakakakita nga ako ng pho bac lagi kong pinapasok :lol:

in fairness, talagang mas masarap magluto ang vietnamese dahil sa french culinary heritage nila. tayo naman spanish, which my book is not as sophisticated.

I also love their spring rolls! At saka yung beef spicy noodles nila! yum yum... their version of bbq is also good :)

Here's how I see it. Vietnam still has a long way to go before they overtake The Philippines economically. But their pace is rapidly growing.

Vietnam has the advantage of low labour costs. Also, they work without complaints. Another advantage is they don't have labour unions unlike The Philippines.

Labour unions is a problem in the Philippine industry especially with groups such as KMU. Once they enter, they can cause problems. That's what happened with Mattel when they decided to move their factory from The Philippines to Thailand when labour groups moved in and caused a strike, demanding higher wages.

One advantage though with The Philippines are the Special Economic Zones. Industries located there are much harder to be infiltrated by union groups.

thats very sad of how you think about the union :no: whygrudge against the common worker?

thats very sad of how you think about the union :no: whygrudge against the common worker?

That's because some of these unions have communist principles and can get abusive.

And you know how much I hate communism!

no i dont know you and your communist idea
maybe youre thinking the other way around w/out unions, the company's management can misrepresent, be very abusive and, some occurrences, wont even pay its employee.

^^haha... hindi lang minsan, palagi kamo.

anyway, I love the new title of this thread.

So, ano ba talaga ang ginawa ng mga neighbors natin kaya sila umunlad? Ano yung mga major factr? Is it culture, politics, religion, etc? Any economist in the house?

First of all, lets thank our one and only moderator, kiretoce.

AS for our topic, yes you got valid questions there ms. marientoinette (meron ka bang mas maikling nick? ang haba kasi hehe). I think its mostly by our religion and culture, and then thats when the politics comes because they are just the result of those 2. IF you notice that most catholic dominated nations in the 3rd and 2nd world class, they have similar difficulties and problems. And there are dozens of different bad and good politics in the world, depending who are running it. For me, we are both good and bad in politics, and bad politicians made us look like the asian losers because they are too good in twisting the politics in the philippines. Somehow these bad politicians were just too greedy to keep the Pork Barrel in our government! Hehehe yan nanaman ako sa sistema...

Anyway, i think our christian faith has something to do with our economy, well not much though. Somehow, we dont have discipline. Just take a look at these hypocrite jeepney drivers, they display their goddess and saints but the way they drive is like a road killer! What more of those thousands who do the same way? With all their rosary displayed and hanged at their front windshield, and what? Nantututok sila ng baril at tatakutin ka kapag na-cut mo sila? Oh well.... How about our corrupt politicians? Aren't they came from the catholic faith? Im talking about our bad fellow christians. I mean if you are a christian, and caims to be one of the true christian, then why not show and demonstrate it?

TAke a look at UK, Canada, and the USA. They are dominated by christians too, well mostly by protestant christians, but they do have good culture and they are indeed good in politics.

Am i right?

Plus our culture, tapon dito tapon doon.... Wala na tayong batas na nasusunod... :bash:

tsinoy, yes its true. When it comes to lunch time, i mostly go to vietnamese restaurants, because they are not only delicious, they are more healthy as well, compared to our local filipino stores that sell pinoy cholesterol-rich food! Yuuckyyy! Too much mantika! Tsaka di sila consistent sa pagtimpla! Kung magiging patriotic din ako eh, ayokong suportahan ang kanilang unhealthy food! Gusto ko na ngang magreklamo eh kaya lng wala kasi silang "Suggestion Boxes" at ayoko naman silang sabihan, tsaka di ako magaling mambola... Oh well, ayaw naman ng misis kong sya na ang magsalita hehehehehe.....

Here's how I see it. Vietnam still has a long way to go before they overtake The Philippines economically. But their pace is rapidly growing.

Vietnam has the advantage of low labour costs. Also, they work without complaints. Another advantage is they don't have labour unions unlike The Philippines.

Labour unions is a problem in the Philippine industry especially with groups such as KMU. Once they enter, they can cause problems. That's what happened with Mattel when they decided to move their factory from The Philippines to Thailand when labour groups moved in and caused a strike, demanding higher wages.

One advantage though with The Philippines are the Special Economic Zones. Industries located there are much harder to be infiltrated by union groups.

Unions are for lazy people as well. Indeed you are right and i totally agree with you! :cheers:

First of all, lets thank our one and only moderator, kiretoce.

AS for our topic, yes you got valid questions there ms. marientoinette (meron ka bang mas maikling nick? ang haba kasi hehe). I think its mostly by our religion and culture, and then thats when the politics comes because they are just the result of those 2. IF you notice that most catholic dominated nations in the 3rd and 2nd world class, they have similar difficulties and problems. And there are dozens of different bad and good politics in the world, depending who are running it. For me, we are both good and bad in politics, and bad politicians made us look like the asian losers because they are too good in twisting the politics in the philippines. Somehow these bad politicians were just too greedy to keep the Pork Barrel in our government! Hehehe yan nanaman ako sa sistema...

Anyway, i think our christian faith has something to do with our economy, well not much though. Somehow, we dont have discipline. Just take a look at these hypocrite jeepney drivers, they display their goddess and saints but the way they drive is like a road killer! What more of those thousands who do the same way? With all their rosary displayed and hanged at their front windshield, and what? Nantututok sila ng baril at tatakutin ka kapag na-cut mo sila? Oh well.... How about our corrupt politicians? Aren't they came from the catholic faith? Im talking about our bad fellow christians. I mean if you are a christian, and caims to be one of the true christian, then why not show and demonstrate it?

TAke a look at UK, Canada, and the USA. They are dominated by christians too, well mostly by protestant christians, but they do have good culture and they are indeed good in politics.

Am i right?

Plus our culture, tapon dito tapon doon.... Wala na tayong batas na nasusunod... :bash:Just call me XP. ;)

no i dont know you and your communist idea
maybe youre thinking the other way around w/out unions, the company's management can misrepresent, be very abusive and, some occurrences, wont even pay its employee.

You dont have to have a union in your workplace. What we really need are laws and enforcers of the laws. Example, in canada we have the Ministry of Labor, who are watching our employers here and making sure they are abiding the laws and give the benefits of the workers who are entitled to. So if a problem occurs in the workplace, one of your option is to go to the ministry of labor, and im telling you, they are really quick to respond, and penalize any employers who are proved of wrong doings and any violations of labor codes here. I dont know about the philippines, but im sure agree with Wanch, unions can be really bad and abusive! That's why its always better to have no union. Anyway, its only for the lazy workers!

Just call me XP. ;)

Ok XP. :)

no i dont know you and your communist idea
maybe youre thinking the other way around w/out unions, the company's management can misrepresent, be very abusive and, some occurrences, wont even pay its employee.

We're talking about the Philippines here. The abuse more come to the labour unions.

If people's dwellings are indicators of development... then one can glean Vietnam's vibrant economy from these. These were all taken from my sister's album from a recent visit... I especially like the house in the last 4 pictures...

http://inlinethumb13.webshots.com/39436/2924912370101994864S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb26.webshots.com/30681/2173067400101994864S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb62.webshots.com/23293/2326287620101994864S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb56.webshots.com/27063/2512559100101994864S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb09.webshots.com/40328/2240608030101994864S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb02.webshots.com/38721/2317771750101994864S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb14.webshots.com/15181/2765548390101994864S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb41.webshots.com/39400/2165294480101994864S600x600Q85.jpg

^^If those are their best, mas mayaman pala tayo!!! :)

I am amazed at how well-preserved these colonial structures and monuments are... even as new ones rise to challenge their dominance...

http://inlinethumb38.webshots.com/20069/2963369220101994864S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb12.webshots.com/30667/2057519360101994864S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb44.webshots.com/34539/2194251840101994864S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb50.webshots.com/42289/2579090270101994864S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb39.webshots.com/36070/2391166280101994864S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb48.webshots.com/29487/2757744920101994864S600x600Q85.jpg


The streets are wide and clean... The parks are green and well-manicured...

http://inlinethumb42.webshots.com/40489/2587293850101994864S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb33.webshots.com/24160/2344916720101994864S600x600Q85.jpg

^^If those are their best, mas mayaman pala tayo!!! :)

I can't answer that. Though the disparity between rich and poor must be greater in our country since a foreigner friend who had lived there for more than a year commented that he was surprised to see vagrants in Manila which he never chanced upon in Saigon or Ho Chi Minh...

Vietnam is a communist country, remember?

Vietnam is a communist country, remember?

Yes, it's a socialist republic.

The streets are wide and clean... The parks are green and well-manicured...

http://inlinethumb42.webshots.com/40489/2587293850101994864S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb33.webshots.com/24160/2344916720101994864S600x600Q85.jpg

Probably because it isn't choked by cars and buses, the motorcycle still is the transportation of the masses in Vietnam. Although, with an ever increasing middle class with money to spend, I predict that those once wide and clean streets will be crammed full with smoke belching vehicles soon.

They are also suffering from heavy traffic. I read numbers of vietnamese complaints on their threads.

Anyway, technically speaking, we are still ahead of them, but they are a serious threat to overcome us in the near future, if we dont fix our political, poverty, insurgency, and governance problems. You know we dont wanna end up competing with cambodia next time after vietnam.... Its gonna be too much na!

BTW, check this out, a french-vietnamese hospital:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=LL6WdFoZIBg&feature=related

Aren't we done yet about vietnam? Who wants to move on here and examine our next asian neighbor, Cambidia?

Here is a couple of preview (walang tatawa huh):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=gEZEYSF7H7A

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xG982cT9sCI&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2H7qSNDvGcE&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=tvyIY7SNvm0&feature=related

Look at their traffic, its even worst:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GYXWpYChpYA&feature=related

^^ Yeah, let's move on. Cambodia seems nice. :colgate:

I am amazed at how well-preserved these colonial structures and monuments are... even as new ones rise to challenge their dominance...

http://inlinethumb38.webshots.com/20069/2963369220101994864S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb12.webshots.com/30667/2057519360101994864S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb44.webshots.com/34539/2194251840101994864S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb50.webshots.com/42289/2579090270101994864S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb39.webshots.com/36070/2391166280101994864S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb48.webshots.com/29487/2757744920101994864S600x600Q85.jpg


The streets are wide and clean... The parks are green and well-manicured...

http://inlinethumb42.webshots.com/40489/2587293850101994864S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb33.webshots.com/24160/2344916720101994864S600x600Q85.jpg

I envy these places for our "supposed" heritage sites in the Philippines, especially those in Manila. A lot, and I mean A LOT, of our colonial infrastructures are not well taken care of, must I say neglected. Just look at the Manila City Hall, it looks like crap! (Well, not architecture-wise, but how the building looks. It looks SOOOO old when it could be kept immaculately clean.) I just can't keep thinking why that structure and its environs should be neglected that way. I mean, it's so pretty and it could be a monument itself. It has stood time and all but it's treated that way. I pity it. :no:

why just Vietnam? What we can learn from Singapore perhaps?

I envy these places for our "supposed" heritage sites in the Philippines, especially those in Manila. A lot, and I mean A LOT, of our colonial infrastructures are not well taken care of, must I say neglected. Just look at the Manila City Hall, it looks like crap! (Well, not architecture-wise, but how the building looks. It looks SOOOO old when it could be kept immaculately clean.) I just can't keep thinking why that structure and its environs should be neglected that way. I mean, it's so pretty and it could be a monument itself. It has stood time and all but it's treated that way. I pity it. :no:

It's because many Filipinos don't know the histories of their heritage. We have this mentality that the past was evil and nothing was accomplished and that we even fail to realize the potential and reality of our cities. We always resort to say, "colonial mentality" to anyone - in terms of having to appreciate our colonial past.

how about Jakarta? Ang bilis nila.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/acen_keren/jakskyline.jpg

how about Jakarta? Ang bilis nila.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/acen_keren/jakskyline.jpg


Nice eh? Mukhang mas marami pa yata silang skycrapers kesa sa atin...?

Bangkok
http://www.thaiflyingclub.com/images/linkTFCpicturestodownload/picBangkok3PhotoTomClaytor.JPG
http://www.janovebrenden.no/Sommerferie%202002/Bangkok%20fra%20fly%207.jpg

Bangkok's Int'l Airport, seem to be not that far away from the urbanized city (parang distance lang ng sangley at luneta):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/pon/Donmu.jpg

Kuala Lumpur
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/96/281088455_3eb2ceb588_b.jpg
http://static.flickr.com/102/259540634_5d17c645c5_b.jpg

Lets compara nga:

Metro Manila
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/3041/2198963037bb2f2258eebmv6.jpg
http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/667/ortigas4ml5.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2384/2186467668_6dea355519_o.jpg

Ito panlaban natin sa vietnam:
http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z133/ron973/DSC01401.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b358/thomasian/100_9053x.jpg (http://s23.photobucket.com/albums/b358/thomasian/?action=view&current=100_9718x.jpg)


Eh ito?
http://images.inquirer.net/media/networkindex/images/pic-01130530360613.jpg

Perhaps we can learn from them how to allign our roads nicely next time, and give some proper zoning to our cities. And those squatters??? They should really be enforced!!!

This is vietnam's not-so-good housings:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2279/2132316467_ef0afaba25_b.jpg

Likwise, they also have some similar problems like ours:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2365/2187659255_c90baebb5d_b.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2025/2152546170_f687caaf56_o.jpg

Its about time to take notes...

why just Vietnam? What we can learn from Singapore perhaps?

Post pics and ideas, sir...

Next is Indonesia:

Economy - overview:
Indonesia, a vast polyglot nation, struggles with persistent poverty and unemployment, inadequate infrastructure, pervasive corruption, a fragile banking sector, a poor investment climate, and unequal resource distribution among regions. Declining oil production and lack of new exploration investment turned Indonesia into a net oil importer in 2004. The cost of subsidizing domestic fuel strained the budget in 2005, ultimately prompting the government to enact a 126% average fuel price hike in October. The resulting inflation and interest rate hikes dampened growth through mid-2006, while large increases in rice prices pushed millions more people under the national poverty line. The economy accelerated throughout 2007, but keys to sustained future growth remain internal reform and building up the confidence of international and domestic investors. The high global price of oil in 2007 increased the cost of domesic fuel and electricity subsidies, which consume a significant share of government spending. Significant progress has been made in rebuilding Aceh after the devastating December 2004 tsunami, and the province now shows more economic activity than before the disaster. Unfortunately, Indonesia suffered new disasters in 2006 and early 2007 including: a major earthquake near Yogyakarta, an industrial accident in Sidoarjo, East Java that created a "mud volcano," a tsunami in South Java, and major flooding in Jakarta, all of which caused additional damages in the billions of dollars. Donors are assisting Indonesia with its disaster mitigation and early warning efforts.

GDP (purchasing power parity):
$845.6 billion (2007 est.)
GDP (official exchange rate):
$287.4 billion (2007 est.)
GDP - real growth rate:
6.1% (2007 est.)
GDP - per capita (PPP):
$3,400 (2007 est.)
GDP - composition by sector:
agriculture: 12.4%
industry: 47.7%
services: 39.9% (2007 est.)
Labor force:
108 million (2007 est.)
Labor force - by occupation:
agriculture: 43.3%
industry: 18%
services: 38.7% (2004 est.)
Unemployment rate:
9.7% (2007 est.)
Population below poverty line:
17.8% (2006)


New Airport is underconstruction:
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/acen_keren/cgkfuture8ns.jpg

Ano nga pala sinabi ninyo? DMIA ang ating future? Cge tignan natin kung kaya nyang talunin ang laki ng bagong ginagawang airport dito:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=466638




http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/acen_keren/image002.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/acen_keren/image0042.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/acen_keren/image004.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/acen_keren/image0062.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/acen_keren/image006.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/acen_keren/image008.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/acen_keren/image010.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/acen_keren/image012.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/acen_keren/image014.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/acen_keren/image016.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/acen_keren/New_Si4.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/acen_keren/New_Si5.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/acen_keren/New_Si6.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/acen_keren/New_Si8.gif

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/acen_keren/New_Si9.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/acen_keren/New_Si10.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/acen_keren/New_Si11.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/acen_keren/New_Si12.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/acen_keren/New_Si13.jpg

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/acen_keren/New_Si27.gif

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/acen_keren/Small_NewAirport.jpg





14 October 2006

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/acen_keren/New_term2.jpg

11 March 2007

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/acen_keren/S5003319.jpg


CGE SABAY TAYONG LAHAT NA MAGLAWAY!!!

Why do I feel like I was transported back in time....oh, yeah....now I remember, this thread is beginning to look like....

CvC

:ohno: Tsk..tsk..tsk..better watch yourselves, this is walking on thin ice. :nono:

I can't answer that. Though the disparity between rich and poor must be greater in our country since a foreigner friend who had lived there for more than a year commented that he was surprised to see vagrants in Manila which he never chanced upon in Saigon or Ho Chi Minh...

Actually Malaysia has the widest gap between the rich and the poor in SEA.

Why do I feel like I was transported back in time....oh, yeah....now I remember, this thread is beginning to look like....

CvC

:ohno: Tsk..tsk..tsk..better watch yourselves, this is walking on thin ice. :nono:

Its becoming like that but again, this is The Philippine forums so Filipinos have the homecourt advantage :D

Where's the poll.

I want to vote for my beloved country the Philippines:D

I need to reactivate my multiple accounts now.:lol::lol::lol:

^^I am really jealous of that new airport...

I felt small just looking at it.

But I am happy that the government is giving infrastracture high priority coz we sorely need those to attract foreign investors.

philippines have no appetite for sporting facilities. We're really behind that. Vietnam has proper sports complex, Indonesia, Malaysia and Thailand has many. We can only afford sit amongst Cambodia and Laos. Shameful. Or GDP PPP is much higher than those 2 countries but our sporting facilities are awful.

What we can learn from neighbours? We must learn to instill sporting culture in the society. Give support to our athletes and emphasize on proper training for youth.

We're not talking about the things we are supposed to talk about. I guess, the economy thread would be more appropriate. :ohno: Kimber's right, it's starting to become a CvC thread. I'm disappointed.

OK, here are my questions to change the course of discussion:

what could we learn from our neighbors?

why do they have lower costs of production than us? (electricity, wages, etc) what should we do to make it at least at par or lower than them?

...which means more foreign and local investments

what's wrong with our bureaucracy? why can't we be more efficient and fast than our neighbors? do we need more laws?

does our system of government hinders economic growth? or are we just too protectionist compared to our neighbors?

what are the bright spots or promising sectors in our economy that we should maximize and develop?

any suggestions?

Watch this video, hopefully this will inspire all Filipinos...


Video by Bigfoot Entertainment

E1tGCYfKRC8




..

Why do I feel like I was transported back in time....oh, yeah....now I remember, this thread is beginning to look like....

CvC

:ohno: Tsk..tsk..tsk..better watch yourselves, this is walking on thin ice. :nono:


My apologies, i didn't mean to harm and sound negative from any of my recent posts. Im just showing to everyone how successful the indonesians are in sustaining their economic growth and how they able to build an airport without any hussles. This is something that we filipinos should look at and ask our selves why? If our indonesian friends were able to start building an airport wort billions of dollars, why can't we when in fact even the indonesian government is facing some corruption scandals?

Whats CvC means btw?

OK, here are my questions to change the course of discussion:

what could we learn from our neighbors?

why do they have lower costs of production than us? (electricity, wages, etc) what should we do to make it at least at par or lower than them?

...which means more foreign and local investments

what's wrong with our bureaucracy? why can't we be more efficient and fast than our neighbors? do we need more laws?

does our system of government hinders economic growth? or are we just too protectionist compared to our neighbors?

what are the bright spots or promising sectors in our economy that we should maximize and develop?

any suggestions?

First of ll, I think our government should have more control in our media, because the media can sometimes do more harm than good to our public by sometimes exagerating things, or by misinterpretation of reports by its journalists. Or perhaps, our journalists should retake their training and professionalism.

I believe that the government system has something to do with how fast our progress should be. Because there are actually dozens of impending laws that haven't been passed yet, and it affects our bureacracy in the philippines in a bad term. That's why we need an effective government system that can control our people and guide us to do the right thing.

I agree that we do have some good things happening under GMA. The tourism industry for example is enjoying its highest collected revenue ever so far in the history of the philippines, and it is a potential boost for our economy, and is beneficial in the long run. In fact tourism itself can help us sustain our economic growth and provide us more revenues to help our government fund its numerous programs and projects from our economic, social, educational, and all other government sectors. Tourism is billion dollar revenue.

Take a look at china, japan, malaysia, indonesia, and thailand who so far enjoying the most inflock of tourists from all over the world among all the asian nations. Our country is in fact a potential hit if only we can develop our infrastructures specially for tourisms, including modern airports, hotels, theme parks, security, and other water and land transportation network. The priority of the developments have to be at the right areas though like near our tourist spots.

:cheers:

Watch this video, hopefully this will inspire all Filipinos...


Video by Bigfoot Entertainment

E1tGCYfKRC8



..


Its encouraging.

BTW, was there any plans to put up a cable ride system there aound the banaue rice terreces? Tnx.

Whats CvC means btw?

It's a term from a bygone era here on SSC. It means City vs City, or Country vs Country. It was fun while it lasted but also a headache for mods to keep the peace in the threads and to referee staunch combatants that will the defend the honor of their respective turfs. :lol:

^^ The big difference on this one is how we show the better side of other SEA Nations and the things that we really should have.



(in short, we don't have a lot of those things that our neighbors enjoy.) :lol:

Compare to our neighbour, we lack (physical infra):

bridge
tunnel
sports complex
historic building preservation
strong military (now it's like more politically-inclined military, more politics than equipment)

on par :

airports (despite NAIA 3 fiasco we still have acceptable airports)
rail transportation (the first country in SEA to have MRT)
seaports

undergoing :

international class highway

^^

Reminds me of Nick Joaquin's essay, "A Heritage of Smallness"

Thanks kiretoce! Now i know why hehehe....:lol: Ok next time ill try my best to keep away from posting anything near it.... :)



Compare to our neighbour, we lack (physical infra):

bridge
tunnel
sports complex
historic building preservation
strong military (now it's like more politically-inclined military, more politics than equipment)

on par :

airports (despite NAIA 3 fiasco we still have acceptable airports)
rail transportation (the first country in SEA to have MRT)
seaports

undergoing :

international class highway

I agree. One thing though, that DMIA expansion plan may bring us a little bit at par with them specially w/ the indonesian new int'l airport that is being built right now. Pero syempre kulang parin sa runway ang DMIA kahitna matapos na yung plano nila dun.

ALso we really need to put up a BRT system! :banana:

Compare to our neighbour, we lack (physical infra):

bridge
tunnel
sports complex
historic building preservation
strong military (now it's like more politically-inclined military, more politics than equipment)

on par :

airports (despite NAIA 3 fiasco we still have acceptable airports)
rail transportation (the first country in SEA to have MRT)
seaports

undergoing :

international class highway

I agree, our highways are becoming world class...But we really lack in those areas mentioned above, especially in bridge designs and historic preservation -- these are the two areas which the government must also pay attention...

oh i dont see this as a CvC at all... it would be that if we keep on boasting about what we have and what others dont have... but the trend here, being the reverse would be more of an eye opener! we have no reasons to say ouch when what hurts is actually the result of what we did and what we failed to do...

when can filipinos be inspired to do better things...??? we don't have to be mediocre on microscopic achievements coz we can accomplish bigger things... i hope politicians get to see this thread...

and as for us forumers here, i know it sucks, and to some extent i feel the same way when we get to some sort of comparrisons between us and them... but hey, aren't we supposed to be more tolerant on the wider world of facts... one reason why we never have the momentum to improve is because we limit what we see to the things that we wanna see... its a whole world out there that matters, and whether we like it or not, we will BE compared, and that happens more than how much we think it happens... it is because of PRIDE, why it hurts when the state of our sorry nation is revealed...

i had an uncle who works for the american government (early-mid 1990s) and who helps vietnamese refugees here in RP, what amazed me is that when we visited their "village" i was expecting merciful conditions but what i saw was a flourishing community, almost complete with basic services... people are poor, yes they are, but the general appearance of their community was a lot better than most of our villages... and i have come up with these observations:
1. they (vietnamese) pay attention to details... in the general appearance of their community...
even bamboo fences are carefully measured and painted...
2. they have a system... we also do, but they give importance to theirs...
3. they practice their rights RESPONSIBLY!

Hehehe..this thread is still alive. The name of the thread has been changed kindly in a resonable acceptance ;) ^^^^ I agree with you about vietnamese. You can see from their colorful houses. I don't know if this's true from what I have heard that vietnamese will repaint their houses every one or two years.

oh i dont see this as a CvC at all... it would be that if we keep on boasting about what we have and what others dont have... but the trend here, being the reverse would be more of an eye opener! we have no reasons to say ouch when what hurts is actually the result of what we did and what we failed to do...

when can filipinos be inspired to do better things...??? we don't have to be mediocre on microscopic achievements coz we can accomplish bigger things... i hope politicians get to see this thread...

and as for us forumers here, i know it sucks, and to some extent i feel the same way when we get to some sort of comparrisons between us and them... but hey, aren't we supposed to be more tolerant on the wider world of facts... one reason why we never have the momentum to improve is because we limit what we see to the things that we wanna see... its a whole world out there that matters, and whether we like it or not, we will BE compared, and that happens more than how much we think it happens... it is because of PRIDE, why it hurts when the state of our sorry nation is revealed...

i had an uncle who works for the american government (early-mid 1990s) and who helps vietnamese refugees here in RP, what amazed me is that when we visited their "village" i was expecting merciful conditions but what i saw was a flourishing community, almost complete with basic services... people are poor, yes they are, but the general appearance of their community was a lot better than most of our villages... and i have come up with these observations:
1. they (vietnamese) pay attention to details... in the general appearance of their community...
even bamboo fences are carefully measured and painted...
2. they have a system... we also do, but they give importance to theirs...
3. they practice their rights RESPONSIBLY!

Thanks for showing your support on my thread.

I also intend to post some of our asian friend's beautiful images for inspiration, so us will learn a lot of lessons from them as we admire their disciplines and dedications. :cheers:

gUMQhnSYAHA

^^ he he he... the economic craze has just reach Philippines...

The question after 15 years would be... What other nations have learned from experiences of the Philippiness.. he he he..:cheers::cheers::cheers:

it's not the uturn slots that's the problem. it's the helter skelter maniac ways filipino motorists drive. if they stayed in their lanes and drove like normal people there would be less accidents.

We're not talking about the things we are supposed to talk about. I guess, the economy thread would be more appropriate. :ohno: Kimber's right, it's starting to become a CvC thread. I'm disappointed.

OK, here are my questions to change the course of discussion:

what could we learn from our neighbors?

why do they have lower costs of production than us? (electricity, wages, etc) what should we do to make it at least at par or lower than them?

...which means more foreign and local investments

what's wrong with our bureaucracy? why can't we be more efficient and fast than our neighbors? do we need more laws?

does our system of government hinders economic growth? or are we just too protectionist compared to our neighbors?

what are the bright spots or promising sectors in our economy that we should maximize and develop?

any suggestions?

actually I thought this thread will go along these questions you've posted XP. but this thread is clearly just stating the facts that we already know... And comments like "sama-sama tayong maglaway" is very disappointing.

I'm thinking more on the idea that we could act like a "think-thank" group or something, where we could discuss things more sytematically. For instance we could highlight a particular area like land Transportation. We could then talk about what kind of system we have in place, see what other countries have, and think on how we could adapt their methods and make it work for our country.

I mean we could be our own senators/cabinet here, less the politics. ^^

actually I thought this thread will go along these questions you've posted XP. but this thread is clearly just stating the facts that we already know... And comments like "sama-sama tayong maglaway" is very disappointing.

I'm thinking more on the idea that we could act like a "think-thank" group or something, where we could discuss things more sytematically. For instance we could highlight a particular area like land Transportation. We could then talk about what kind of system we have in place, see what other countries have, and think on how we could adapt their methods and make it work for our country.

I mean we could be our own senators/cabinet here, less the politics. ^^

You mean Think Tank, not Isip-Salamat... :lol:

Anyways, I think this thread is really stating those things that we don't have and to discuss them fully if we can have those or why we can't and not having any of them for some reasons.

The best thing that the government can do or us Filipinos is to have an objective and set guidelines and priorities. It would be much better if we focus on one subject - deal w/ it and finish it. Then off we go to the next. What I noticed from our side is although we have a lot of projects and proposals we tend to try to handle it all at once like we multi-task. Let me make it clear, multi-tasking is good if you can handle what you think you only could handle. But in our case, we're just trying to squeeze everything in just a single handful. And then that's when everything falls down. So, it would be better if we focus on things one step at a time.

By Barth Suretsky
Undated

My decision to move to Manila was not a precipitous one. I used to
work in New York as an outside agent for PAL, and I have been coming
to the Philippines since August, 1982. I was so impressed with the
country, and with the interesting people I met, some of which have
become very close friends to this day, that I asked for and was
granted a year’s sabbatical from my teaching job in order to live in
the Philippines.

I arrived here on August 21, 1983, several hours after Ninoy Aquino
was shot, and remained here until June of 1984. During that year I
visited many parts of the country, from as far north as Laoag to as
far south as Zamboanga, and including Palawan. I became deeply
immersed in the history and culture of the archipelago, and an avid
collector of tribal antiquities from both northern Luzon, and
Mindanao.

In subsequent years I visited the Philippines in 1985, 1987, and
1991, before deciding to move here permanently in 1998. I love this
country, but not uncritically, and that is the purpose of this
article. First, however, I will say that I would not consider living
anywhere else in Asia, no matter how attractive certain aspects of
other neighboring countries may be.

To begin with, and this is most important, with all its faults, the
Philippines is still a democracy, more so than any other nation in
Southeast Asia. Despite gross corruption, the legal system generally
works, and if ever confronted with having to employ it, I would feel
much more safe trusting the courts here than in any other place in
the surrounding area.

The press here is unquestionably the most unfettered and
freewheeling in Asia, and I do not believe that is hyperbole in any
way! And if any one thing can be used as a yardstick to measure the
extent of the democratic process in any given country in the world,
it is the extent to which the press is free.

But the Philippines is a flawed democracy nevertheless, and the flaws
are deeply rooted in the Philippine psyche. I will elaborate… The
basic problem seems to me, after many years of observation, to be a
national inferiority complex, a disturbing lack of pride in being
Filipino.

Toward the end of April I spent eight days in Vietnam, visiting
Hanoi, Hue, and Ho Chi Minh City. I am certainly no expert on
Vietnam, but what I saw could not be denied: I saw a country ravaged
as no other country has been in this century by thirty years of
continuous and incredibly barbaric warfare. When the Vietnam War
ended in April, 1975, the country was totally devastated. Yet in the
past twenty-five years the nation has healed and rebuilt itself
almost miraculously! The countryside has been replanted and
reforested. Hanoi and HCMC have been beautifully restored.

The opera house in Hanoi is a splendid restoration of the original,
modeled after the Opera in Paris, and the gorgeous Second Empire
theater, on the main square of HCMC is as it was when built by the
French a century ago. The streets are tree-lined, clean, and
conducive for strolling. Cafes in the French style proliferate on
the wide boulevards of HCMC. I am not praising the government of
Vietnam, which still has a long way to travel on the road to
democracy, but I do praise, and praise unstintingly, the pride of
the Vietnamese people.

It is due to this pride in being Vietnamese that has enabled its
citizenry to undertake the miracle of restoration that I have
described above. When I returned to Manila I became so depressed
that I was actually physically ill for days thereafter.

Why? Well, let’s go back to a period when the Philippines resembled
the Vietnam of 1975. It was 1945, the end of World War II, and
Manila, as well as many other cities, lay in ruins. (As a matter of
fact, it may not be generally known, but Manila was the second most
destroyed city in the entire war; only Warsaw was more demolished!)

But to compare Manila in 1970, twenty-five years after the end of
the war, with HCMC, twenty-five years after the end of its war, is a
sad exercise indeed. Far from restoring the city to its former
glory, by 1970 Manila was well on its way to being the most tawdry
city in Southeast Asia. And since that time the situation has
deteriorated alarmingly. We have a city full of street people,
beggars, and squatters. We have a city that floods sections
whenever there is a rainstorm, and that loses electricity with every
clap of thunder. We have a city full of potholes, and on these
unrepaired roads we have a traffic situation second to none in the
world for sheer unmanageability.

We have rude drivers, taxis that routinely refuse to take passengers
because of “many trappic!” The roads are also cursed with pollution-
spewing buses in disreputable states of repair, and that ultimate
anachronism, the jeepney! We have an educational system that allows
children to attend schools without desks or books to accommodate
them. Teachers, even college professors, are paid salaries so
disgracefully low that it’s a wonder that anyone would want to go
into the teaching profession in the first place. We have a war in
Mindanao that nobody seems to have a clue how to settle.

The only policy to deal with the war seems to be to react to what
happens daily, with no long range plan whatever. I could go on and
on, but it is an endeavor so filled with futility that it hurts me
to go on. It hurts me because, in spite of everything, I love the
Philippines

Maybe it will sound simplistic, but to go back to what I said above,
it is my unshakable belief that the fundamental thing wrong with this
country is a lack of pride in being Filipino. A friend once remarked
to me, laconically: “All Filipinos want to be something else. The
poor ones want to be American, and the rich ones all want to be
Spaniards. Nobody wants to be Filipino.”

That statement would appear to be a rather simplistic one, and
perhaps it is. However, I know one Filipino who refuses to enter a
theater until the national anthem has stopped being played because
he doesn’t want to honor his own country, and I know another one who
thinks that history stopped dead in 1898 when the Spaniards
departed!

While it is certainly true that these represent extreme examples of
national denial, the truth is not a pretty picture. Filipinos tend
to worship, almost slavishly, everything foreign. If it comes from
Italy or France it has to be better than anything made here.

If the idea is American or German it has to be superior to anything
that Filipinos can think up for themselves. Foreigners are looked up
to and idolized. Foreigners can go anywhere without question. In my
own personal experience I remember attending recently an affair at a
major museum here. I had forgotten to bring my invitation. But while
Filipinos entering the museum were checked for invitations, I was
simply waived through. This sort of thing happens so often here that
it just accepted routine.

All of these things, the illogical respect given to foreigners
simply because they are not Filipinos, the distrust and even
disrespect shown to any homegrown merchandise, the neglect of
anything Philippine, the rudeness of taxi drivers, the ill-manners
shown by many Filipinos are all symptomatic of a lack of self-love,
of respect for and love of the country in which they were born, and
worst of all, a static mind-set in regard to finding ways to improve
the situation.

Most Filipinos, when confronted with evidence of governmental
corruption, political chicanery, or gross exploitation on the part
of the business community, simply shrug their shoulders,
mutter “bahala na,” and let it go at that. It is an
oversimplification to say this, but it is not without a grain of
truth to say that Filipinos feel downtrodden because they allow
themselves to feel downtrodden. No pride.

One of the most egregious examples of this lack of pride, this
uncaring attitude to their own past or past culture, is the wretched
state of surviving architectural landmarks in Manila and elsewhere.
During the American period many beautiful and imposing buildings
were built, in what we now call the “art deco” style (although,
incidentally, that was not a contemporary term; it was coined only
in the 1960s). These were beautiful edifices, mostly erected during,
or just before, the Commonwealth period.

Three, which are still standing, are the Jai Alai Building, the
Metropolitan Theater, and the Rizal Stadium. Fortunately, due to the
truly noble efforts of my friend John Silva, the Jai Alai Building
will now be saved. But unless something is done to the most
beautiful and original of these three masterpieces of pre-war
Philippine architecture, the Metropolitan Theater, it will
disintegrate. The Rizal Stadium is in equally wretched shape.

When the wreckers’ ball destroyed Frank Lloyd Wright’s Imperial
Hotel in Tokyo, and New York City’s most magnificent building,
Pennsylvania Station, both in 1963, Ada Louise Huxtable, then the
architectural critic of The New York Times, wrote: “A disposable
culture loses the right to call itself a civilization at all!” How
right she was! (Fortunately, the destruction of Pennsylvania Station
proved to be the sacrificial catalyst that resulted in the creation
of New York’s Landmark Commission. Would that such a commission be
created for Manila…)

Are there historical reasons for this lack of national pride? We can
say that until the arrival of the Spaniards there was no sense of a
unified archipelago constituted as one country. True. We can also
say that the high cultures of other nations in the region seemed,
unfortunately, to have bypassed the Philippines; there are no
Angkors, no Ayuttayas, no
Borobudurs. True.

Centuries of contact with the high cultures” of the Khmers and the
Chinese had, except for the proliferation of Song dynasty pottery
found throughout the archipelago, no noticeable effect. True.

But all that aside, what was here? To begin with, the ancient rice
terraces, now threatened with disintegration, incidentally, was an
incredible feat of engineering for so-called “primitive” people. As
a matter of fact, when I first saw them in 1984, I was almost as awe-
stricken as I was when I first laid eyes on the astonishing Inca
city of Machu Picchu, high in the Peruvian Andes.

The degree of artistry exhibited by the various tribes of the
Cordillera of Luzon is testimony to a remarkable culture, second to
none in the Southeast Asian region. As for Mindanao, at the other
end of the archipelago, an equally high degree of artistry has been
manifest for centuries in woodcarving, weaving and metalwork.

However, the most shocking aspect of this lack of national pride,
even identity, endemic in the average Filipino, is the appalling
ignorance of the history of the archipelago since unified by Spain
and named Filipinas.

The remarkable stories concerning the Galleon de Manila, the
courageous repulsion of Dutch and British invaders from the 16th
through the 18th centuries, even the origins of the Independence
movement of the late 19th century, are hardly known by the average
Filipino in any meaningful way.

And thanks to fifty years of American brainwashing, it is few and
far between the number of Filipinos who really know - or even care -
about the duplicity employed by the Americans and Spaniards to sell
out and make meaningless the very independent state that Aguinaldo
declared on June 12, 1898.

A people without a sense of history is a people doomed to be unaware
of their own identity. It is sad to say, but true, that the vast
majority of Filipinos fall in this category. Without a sense of who
you are, how can you possibly take any pride in who you are?

These are not oversimplifications. On the contrary, these are the
root problems of the Philippine inferiority complex referred to
above. Until the Filipino takes pride in being Filipino these ills
of the soul will never be cured.

If what I have written here can help, even in the smallest way, to
make the Filipino aware of just who he is, who he was, and who he
can be, I will be one happy expat indeed!*****

kalokohan lng yan

You mean Think Tank, not Isip-Salamat... :lol:

Anyways, I think this thread is really stating those things that we don't have and to discuss them fully if we can have those or why we can't and not having any of them for some reasons.

ay sorry po.. haha... nagmamadali kasi ako nagtatype nyan, baka makita ako ni boss:lol:

I remember my Labor Code prof who handles Labor cases. He himself admitted that the government is babying the workers.

Tignan mo naman, yung mga 'bonuses' eh halos gawin nang mandatory rather than incentive sa mga vey productive workers. Kaya tuloy, pati mga tamad, kasing rami yung nakukuhang bonuses ng sa mga nagtratrabaho talaga.

bump... :wave: re:thread title... there is so much to learn, we just don't want to..... imo lang po.... :cheers:

Hey guys

Just wanna correct: the airport shown here is not located in Jakarta and is not our main hub. Its located in Makassar in Celebes island, around more than 800 km from Jakarta and is the hub for Indonesia's eastern isles. We're building several airports starting this year, the largest of which is Medan Kualanamu (hopefully done by 2010). But then again, Indonesia is a huge sprawling archipelago where air transport and airports are sorely needed.


If you want my opinion, one of the main reason for Indonesia's economic growth, other than the traditional strong-man rule and a policy of economic regional integration, is that Jakarta is part of a geographically compact economically integrated arc starting from Bangkok to Kuala Lumpur to the center in Singapore and then moving southward to Jakata. I think this area is much more economically integrated and thus it is easier to benefit from one another. While Manila is far from Southeast Asia's economic centre.

^^that airport is awesome,its good to know that Indonesia is fast catching up with Asean neighbors.

Hey guys

While Manila is far from Southeast Asia's economic centre.

Nope. Its not the distance that affected our economic slump in the past 30 yrs, rather it was mostly due of our misgovernance by the elected people in the government.

This is the current ASEAN economic triangle:

THAILAND
SINGAPORE
INDONESIA
PHILIPPINES
VIETNAM
BRUNEI
CAMBODIA
http://a537.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/125/l_55b9a1b2b517da853d07926b385c7720.jpg

And this is the one you were claiming:
SINGAPORE
THAILAND
INDONESIA
MALAYSIA
BRUNEI
CAMBODIA
http://a166.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/108/l_75e2d2385568cd2608f18acbad422ae5.jpg

Manila is in fact the original center of southeast asian economic triangle and not singapore. Singapore is farther out west from the north american, south american, and northeast asian economic powerhouse. Manila was the main hub of trade from all over the world for centuries because of its strategic location, thats why the philippines were originally called, the "Pearl of the Orient", w/c now was transfered to the singaporians because of its british-inspired economic growth.

Watch out we are fast catching up though and taking that glory back to us slowly but surely. :cheers:

^^lol I was gonna say a similar sentiment, claiming Singapore is the economic centre of SEA now.....better move it back to where it was decades ago.

Yes, but I said an economically integrated area, not geographical proximity per se. The region is compact because it is served by good transport network and because there is high amount of economic connection especially to Singapore. A large amount of Indonesian money is kept in Singapore and it is Indonesia's, Malaysia's and, although I'm not sure, probably Thailand's biggest economic partner in Southeast Asia. The geographic arc is integrated in that respect with Singapore as its centre. Singapore is a major processing centre for much of Indonesia's natural resources for instance. 30% of Singapore's high end apartments, for instance, is bought each year by Indonesian. So, we are more integrated together.

I hope the Philippines continues to grow, but I doubt it would ever be Southeast Asia's economic centre.

Yes, but I said an economically integrated area, not geographical proximity per se. The region is compact because it is served by good transport network and because there is high amount of economic connection especially to Singapore. A large amount of Indonesian money is kept in Singapore and it is Indonesia's, Malaysia's and, although I'm not sure, probably Thailand's biggest economic partner in Southeast Asia. The geographic arc is integrated in that respect with Singapore as its centre. Singapore is a major processing centre for much of Indonesia's natural resources for instance. 30% of Singapore's high end apartments, for instance, is bought each year by Indonesian. So, we are more integrated together.

I hope the Philippines continues to grow, but I doubt it would ever be Southeast Asia's economic centre.

I hear it from alot that Malaysia will overtake Singapore as the economic centre of SEA.

As for now, I see two centres in SEA which is Singapore and Bangkok. Singapore serves as the centre for the Malay countries which includes Malaysia, Indonesia and Brunei. Bangkok is the centre for the Indo-Chine part of SEA including Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam and to some extent, Myanmar.

As for the Philippines, you're not gonna believe on my next post!

Nope. Its not the distance that affected our economic slump in the past 30 yrs, rather it was mostly due of our misgovernance by the elected people in the government.

This is the current ASEAN economic triangle:

THAILAND
SINGAPORE
INDONESIA
PHILIPPINES
VIETNAM
BRUNEI
CAMBODIA

And this is the one you were claiming:
SINGAPORE
THAILAND
INDONESIA
MALAYSIA
BRUNEI
CAMBODIA

Manila is in fact the original center of southeast asian economic triangle and not singapore. Singapore is farther out west from the north american, south american, and northeast asian economic powerhouse. Manila was the main hub of trade from all over the world for centuries because of its strategic location, thats why the philippines were originally called, the "Pearl of the Orient", w/c now was transfered to the singaporians because of its british-inspired economic growth.

Watch out we are fast catching up though and taking that glory back to us slowly but surely. :cheers:

Here's how I actually see it. Here you go Indistad

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a41/hkwanch/map.jpg

Yes the Philippines is part of South East Asia and ASEAN but it's economic zone and partners are more that of HK, mainland China and Taiwan.

The Philippines especially Manila is closer to the regions I mentioned compared to those of Singapore/Malaysia/Indonesia. Manila is only an hour and 30 min flight to HK while its around 4 hours to Singapore.

Alot of multinational companies in Manila have HK as their regional centre instead of Singapore. This is primarily because of distance. And more Philippine businessmen deal with HK then with Singapore.

And if you at the history of The Philippines, HK plays an important role especially the country's independence.

To Wanch, I agree. Filipinos travel a lot to Hongkong compared to Singapore. I have been to Jakarta and Surabaya in Indonesia (biggest and 2nd largest city), I can say that Manila and Cebu are comparable if not better than those cities. Yes, we have our own share of problems but definitely we will get over these and our economy is growing plus a lot of optimism nowadays.

whoah it's triangle vs triangle thread

To Wanch, I agree. Filipinos travel a lot to Hongkong compared to Singapore. I have been to Jakarta and Surabaya in Indonesia (biggest and 2nd largest city), I can say that Manila and Cebu are comparable if not better than those cities. Yes, we have our own share of problems but definitely we will get over these and our economy is growing plus a lot of optimism nowadays.

Its strange cause I hear more SG stories and travel than HK ones from Manilenos :eek:

Note that several Philippine companies have their investments in HK or in The Mainland. Examples would be of course, San Miguel.

IHdTLEGoKm4

^^ if i'm not mistaken, san miguel is the leading beer brand in HK.

I like how you put it Wanch and to some extent it makes a lot of sense. Indochina has got their own "little club" so to speak (Thailand, Vietnam, Myanmar), and so does the "Malay" nations (Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia). Due to the geographical proximity of Manila to Mainland China, Taiwan and HK it does make a lot of sense that Philippines can become more integrated with the mentioned countries/territories (economic wise of course) compared to the rest of SEA. Having said that; in this day and age, geography or distance doesnt really matter much.

^^ if i'm not mistaken, san miguel is the leading beer brand in HK.

Oh yes it it though The Philippines has the "original" taste :D

Oh yes it it though The Philippines has the "original" taste :D

Kaya pala iba lasa ng SMB sa HK, lasang 65% lang, kasi that's how much SMB brewery own its shareholdings. :lol:

I like how you put it Wanch and to some extent it makes a lot of sense. Indochina has got their own "little club" so to speak (Thailand, Vietnam, Myanmar), and so does the "Malay" nations (Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia). Due to the geographical proximity of Manila to Mainland China, Taiwan and HK it does make a lot of sense that Philippines can become more integrated with the mentioned countries/territories (economic wise of course) compared to the rest of SEA. Having said that; in this day and age, geography or distance doesnt really matter much.

In a way it does. But also connections and partnerships. Most of the Filipino companies I know and I deal with are already familiar and are connected to HK businessmen. My friends tried to deal with Singaporean clients but faced a bit of discrimination since Singapore would mostly side with either Malaysia or Indonesia.

On the other hand, Malaysia keeps a very strong tie with Singapore and so is Indonesia. Thus Singapore becomes the economic hub for these countries.

As for Singapore, note that it was part of the The Federation of Malaysia back in the mid-20th century but because of disagreements, Singapore left.

Kaya pala iba lasa ng SMB sa HK, lasang 65% lang, kasi that's how much SMB brewery own its shareholdings. :lol:

Kaya biihira ako uminom ng San Mig sa HK.

whoah it's triangle vs triangle thread

:lol: Zing! :bow:

That's an interesting way of looking at it Wanch. I don't think though that Bangkok is the centre of a mainland Southeast Asian industrially-economically integrated area because, simply, Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia does not have a significant industrial economy. Bangkok is certainly the industrial centre of Thailand, but although I'm not sure, I do think that Bangkok is probably also pretty integrated with Malaysia and Singapore.

Plus, I don't think the "Malay triangle" as you picture it in the map as being fully accurate just because the industrially connected area is still really limited to the Malay peninsula, Singapore, some parts of Sumatera and Java. But all in all, a pretty interesting discussion!

That's an interesting way of looking at it Wanch. I don't think though that Bangkok is the centre of a mainland Southeast Asian industrially-economically integrated area because, simply, Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia does not have a significant industrial economy. Bangkok is certainly the industrial centre of Thailand, but although I'm not sure, I do think that Bangkok is probably also pretty integrated with Malaysia and Singapore.

Plus, I don't think the "Malay triangle" as you picture it in the map as being fully accurate just because the industrially connected area is still really limited to the Malay peninsula, Singapore, some parts of Sumatera and Java. But all in all, a pretty interesting discussion!


In fact, it was Singapore, Malaysia, and Indonesia who were the main contributors of the ASEAN economic growth during the early 1990's. Now its more like Thailand, Malaysia, Philippines, Brunei, and Indonesia, who are in the major contributors and currently sharing the biggest growth of the ASEAN economies, with Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia as the other beneficiaries of these triangles. Because of this economic diversity in southeast asia, more than 10 years ago they came up of a new Economic Triangle plan spearheaded by the governments of the said countries and the Philippines who wanted to be back again and share the growth, to unify the ASEAN economies as i have previously posted.

Perhaps, because the Singapore is too small for any economic expansion and is indeed already developed, it was not included in the latest planned of economic triangles in contrast to what i and Wench previously illustrated. Although it will still play some important role to sustain the said economies and as well as it is still belonging to the southern triangle. As we can see there are the Northern, Southern, and Eastern ASEAN Growth Triangles.

http://www.wtec.org/loyola/em/f02_03.gif

BTW, Papua New Guinea is still isolated.

Determined to bring these underdeveloped areas into the mainstream of development, the heads of the governments of Brunei, Malaysia and the Philippines discussed the concept of forming a sub-regional economic grouping as early as October 1992. After a series of disucssions among the leaders of those four countries, BIMP-EAGA was formally established on 26 March 1994 in Davao City, Philippines. During its establishment, our leaders cited the trading links which existed even before the 16th century, when these areas were part of the Asian trading route that stretched from North Asia to as far as India and the Arab Peninsula.

With the reported $10 billion investment in the philippines by the Kuwaitis late this year, plus the planned Bay City development in Manila in 3-5 yrs that worth another $10-15 billion investment as well, this country will emerge and may become the newest Tiger in southeast asia in the coming years. That total investment of $20-25 billion will also easily devour the previous $10 billion investments shared by the governments of Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, and Thailand, on their first five years of growth 10 yrs ago.

REGIONAL ECONOMIC COOPERATION
One of the most important developments in the world trade system in the 1990s has been the emergence of regional cooperation. The end of the Cold War reduced political tensions between countries in Asia as well as globalizing production processes and increasing vertical integration. Cities like Bangkok, Kuala Lumpur, and Singapore have been lifting their populations out of poverty in part through cooperative arrangements with neighboring countries. Transnational economic zones have utilized the different endowments of the various countries of East Asia, exploiting cooperative trade and development opportunities. Transfer of technology and manufacturing between nations has allowed them to develop sequentially. Information technology has improved linkages between economies and put remote regions in contact with the world. The private sector provides capital for investment; the public sector provides infrastructure, fiscal incentives, and the administrative framework to attract industry. Regional cooperation is now considered the means of enhancing economic development and providing economic security within the regions. Trade among ASEAN members accounted for more than 23% of all trade by member nations in 1994, topping that of any of the group's major trading partners.

Singapore has concentrated on becoming the technology center for Southeast Asia, sending labor-intensive operations to low-cost neighboring countries like Malaysia and Indonesia in special mutual cooperative trade and development arrangements known as growth triangles or growth polygons. The Southern Growth Triangle, also known as SIJORI (Singapore, the Johore state of Malaysia, and Riau Province of Indonesia), was formed in 1989 and covers a population of about 6 million people. It attracted $10 billion in private sector investments during its first five years. Such regional economic cooperation has occurred in other Asian regions as well, spurring economic development. Growth triangles are expected to be a continued driving force for growth in Asian economies throughout the 1990s. Four growth triangles have been established since 1989, involving parts of 11 countries. As shown on the map, Fig. 2.3, there are currently eight growth polygons in East and Southeast Asia, with additional triangles being planned. For example, Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar, Thailand, Vietnam, and China's Yunnan Province have been discussing ways to develop the Mekong area since 1992.



Indonesia–Malaysia–Thailand Growth Triangle. The growth triangle comprises Sumatra (Indonesia), the eight southernmost provinces of Thailand, and eight states in Peninsular Malaysia, with a total population of more than 65 million. The year witnessed a substantial deepening of the relationship between ADB and the growth triangle cooperation initiative. Following their first summit in December 2005, the leaders of the countries asked ADB to help them develop a 5-year road map and action plan to rebuild dynamism and refocus the initiative. This road map was prepared and submitted for endorsement at the second Indonesia–Malaysia–Thailand Leaders’ Summit held in Cebu, Philippines, January 2007. The summit endorsed ADB’s status as a development partner of the growth triangle. The ministerial meeting in September 2006 in Selangor, Malaysia, requested ADB’s assistance in implementing the road map after its formal endorsement, including the development of flagship cooperation projects and the creation of financial mechanisms for increasing public and private investments in infrastructure and other sectors. Under a new regional technical assistance, ADB will also help the countries improve project implementation, coordination, and monitoring, and identify sectoral opportunities for private investment in regional projects.

Brunei Darussalam–Indonesia–Malaysia–Philippines East ASEAN Growth Area. ADB is the regional adviser to the growth area. At the countries’ second summit held in December 2005, a road map and action plan were endorsed for subregional cooperation. ADB helped implement the road map, in part by launching a trade and investment database. The database is an important tool for decision makers to monitor and quantify developments in the area, and to prioritize investment projects. Stakeholders can now access the database through the website of the Brunei Darussalam–Indonesia–Malaysia–Philippines East ASEAN Growth Area Facilitation Center. Cooperation in easing trade also gained momentum. Senior customs, immigration, quarantine, and security officials from the area attended the first task force meeting on customs, immigration, quarantine, and security in August 2006, organized with technical assistance from ADB and the German Agency for Technical Cooperation (GTZ). They agreed to accelerate developing the area’s cooperation framework for customs, immigration, quarantine, and security to pilot-test the implementation of ASEAN agreements on easing cross-border movement of passengers and freight across land and maritime borders.

ADB helped prepare a draft action plan for development of the transport and energy sectors. In 2007, ADB will continue to support the area’s infrastructure development (transport and energy sectors); trade facilitation (harmonization of customs, immigration, quarantine, and security; and cross-border transport facilitation); and its efforts to improve coordination and monitoring with technical assistance approved in 2006. ADB will also explore opportunities in cooperation with other donors in the areas of agro-industrial development and environmental management.

http://www.wtec.org/loyola/em/02_07.htm
http://www.adb.org/Documents/Reports/Annual_Report/2006/southeast-asia.asp
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1992/10/05/76921/index.htm
http://unpan1.un.org/intradoc/groups/public/documents/EROPA/UNPAN001412.pdf

Trade between Philippines, Chinese mainland hits record high
(Xinhua)
Updated: 2008-01-25 17:56


The trade volume between the Philippines and the Chinese mainland last year surged to a record high of $30.62 billion, the Chinese embassy in the Philippines said on Thursday.

The bilateral trade growth in 2007, an increase of almost ten-fold from $3.14 billion in 2000, is prominent, said Liang Wentao, China's Economic and Commercial Counselor in Manila.

The 2007 trade volume surpassed the $30 billion goal for 2010 that was set in 2005 when Chinese President Hu Jingtao visited the Philippines, he said, adding that the average annual increase over the past seven years in bilateral trade between the two countries is at a high of at least 35 percent.

"Since the start of the 21st century, the vigorous growth trend (between the two countries) is very prominent. By year 2006, the trade volume hit $23.41 billion or 360 times as much as that of 1975 when the two nations established diplomatic relations," the Chinese embassy official said.

The increasing trade volume between the Philippines and the Chinese mainland "strongly indicates the huge development potential of bilateral trade," he said.

The Philippines is the Chinese mainland's 19th biggest trading partner, and fourth among the ASEAN countries. Other ASEAN countries include Brunei, Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar, Singapore, Thailand, and Vietnam.

On the other hand, the Chinese mainland is now the third biggest trading partner of the Philippines, and China as a whole, the biggest if Philippine trade with Hong Kong Special Administrative Region and Taiwan Province are included.

The diplomat attributes the consistent trade growth to the continuous strengthening of the friendly bilateral relationship.

"The frequent exchange of high-level visits by the leaders of both countries has greatly promoted the comprehensive cooperation between two sides in every field," he said.

Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao visited the Philippines in early 2007, while Philippine President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo visited China four times in the year alone, which "breaks the record ever made by a leader in visiting a specific country," Liang said.

The Chinese diplomat said from 2000 to 2007, the balance of trade between the Philippines and China has always been in favor of the Philippines, increasing from $220 million in 2000 to $15.62 billion in 2007.

Chinese exports to the Philippines consist of electronic products, textiles and clothing, steel, and light industrial products, among others. On the other hand, he said Philippine exports to China consists 80 percent electronic products.

"The trade complement between two sides needs to be enhanced," the counselor said.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2008-01/25/content_6421890.htm

I don't really think that these growth triangles are very much an expression of economic integration as it is political designs. The Riau-Singapore-Johore triangle maybe one of the few that can call itself truly economically integrated, but, for instance, the North-Celebes-Sarawak-Southern Philippines one is hardly economically integrated and hardly an industrial centre. Plus, you're down-playing Singapore's role in the geographic Arc I was talking about earlier as a service centre for the entire zone: as a financial, technical and knowledge centre. It is the only mature economy for the region and plays an important central role for trade and industry for the countries of Malaysia, Indonesia and Thailand.

I think Vietnam is probably more integrated to China than we think. I'm not sure how much China-based FDI Vietnam receives. In Indonesia and Malaysia, the biggest source of their FDI actually comes from financially loaded Singapore. It would be interesting to see where the Philippines obtain most of their FDI. For instance, Indonesia received a little more than 10 billion dollars of realized FDI for the period of January-November 2007 and the biggest investor (about 3.7 billion) comes from Singapore.

Plus, I doubt that Brunei would have much of an impact on the overall economic growth of Southeast Asia as its economy is very small.

i like the circle better, it never ends
i dont like triangle with its 3 corners

I agree, our highways are becoming world class...But we really lack in those areas mentioned above, especially in bridge designs and historic preservation -- these are the two areas which the government must also pay attention...

world class naman talaga ang highways natin, ang problema limited lang ito, kung lalabas kana sa malalaking syudad, hinde na masyadong maintained

That's an interesting way of looking at it Wanch. I don't think though that Bangkok is the centre of a mainland Southeast Asian industrially-economically integrated area because, simply, Myanmar, Laos and Cambodia does not have a significant industrial economy. Bangkok is certainly the industrial centre of Thailand, but although I'm not sure, I do think that Bangkok is probably also pretty integrated with Malaysia and Singapore.

Plus, I don't think the "Malay triangle" as you picture it in the map as being fully accurate just because the industrially connected area is still really limited to the Malay peninsula, Singapore, some parts of Sumatera and Java. But all in all, a pretty interesting discussion!

When we look at it, Thailand is the most developed country in the Indochine part of South East Asia followed by Vietnam. That's why alot of those from Thailand's neighbouring countries (except Malaysia) are moving into BKK for better opportunity and work.

interesting discussion. But from my amateur observation, other than San Miguel, Filipino dont have other conglomerates/companies that really stands up and have their brand/company name well known. Malaysia and Singapore, their companies especially construction, finance, telcos, oil and gas player has long venture out from their countries to seek business at the other parts of the world.

Singapore's government investment arm Temasek, a cash rich company, despite few negative publicity from its dealing with Shin Corp of Thailand, acquired shares in some notable companies (you can google yourself about temasek). Malaysia's Khazanah Nasional is following their footstep but more modest in its approach as Malaysia's economy is less mature than Singapore thus opportunities in investing at local companies are abundant. However their hold stakes in two of Indonesia's top 10 banks (PT bank Lippo). Indirectly owned another bank through CIMB group. You can find their investment portfolio in their website. Although less impressive than Temasek, they're learning from them. I wonder if any Philippine Government has their own investment arm like Temasek and Khazanah. We can learn from that.

while Singapore and Malaysia send their companies abroad to source for jobs because of limited opportunities and saturated market at home, Philippine send their workers oversea to get cash. I've been long opposing this policy as it deprives our country of best brain and drive prices up (e.g. in healthcare sector).

I see the way of Malaysian and Singaporean companies go abroad for me it's a natural process of economy. Certainly their economy is smaller than the Philippines but like it or not they have taken a step forward and it would take us years before we see Philippine companies venture out abroad.

I somehow agreed with indistad, geographical may be an important role in economics development but Singapore, Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia are clearly situated in a densed area of economic activities in SEA. You can see they have the busiest strait (Malacca strait), Port Klang, Port of Tanjung Pelepas and Singapore Port, Changi Airport, Suvarnabhumi and KLIA. Singapore-Kunming heavy rail line. Etc etc.

Their airlines. SIA has a stake in Virgin Atlantic and Tiger Airways. Air asia Malaysia spread their wings to Thailand and Indonesia. Indonesia's Lion air is in the midst of setting up their venture in Australia. Our airlines, may be a good quality per se but seems to like the comfort of home and refuse to venture out. Even shutting down the market for Tiger Airways.

Conclusion is i think Philippine companies lack competitions. We must open up our market to encourage foreign business to invest here. Then, of course FDI will flows and maybe we can compete with Vietnam in attracting more money from abroad.

I don't know when will the Philippines get back their Pearl Of the Orient status, despite strong growth but we're still behind (at least moving). Talking about growth the small Singapore registered higher growth than us.

I'm just an amateur, i welcome any correction and suggestion.

I don't really think that these growth triangles are very much an expression of economic integration as it is political designs. The Riau-Singapore-Johore triangle maybe one of the few that can call itself truly economically integrated, but, for instance, the North-Celebes-Sarawak-Southern Philippines one is hardly economically integrated and hardly an industrial centre. Plus, you're down-playing Singapore's role in the geographic Arc I was talking about earlier as a service centre for the entire zone: as a financial, technical and knowledge centre. It is the only mature economy for the region and plays an important central role for trade and industry for the countries of Malaysia, Indonesia and Thailand.

I think Vietnam is probably more integrated to China than we think. I'm not sure how much China-based FDI Vietnam receives. In Indonesia and Malaysia, the biggest source of their FDI actually comes from financially loaded Singapore. It would be interesting to see where the Philippines obtain most of their FDI. For instance, Indonesia received a little more than 10 billion dollars of realized FDI for the period of January-November 2007 and the biggest investor (about 3.7 billion) comes from Singapore.

Plus, I doubt that Brunei would have much of an impact on the overall economic growth of Southeast Asia as its economy is very small.

FDI of Vietnam (20 billions last year)
1.Korea
2.Taiwan
3.Japan
4.Singapore
5.HK etc.

but the highest are from US going in through third parties.

Yes, but I said an economically integrated area, not geographical proximity per se. The region is compact because it is served by good transport network and because there is high amount of economic connection especially to Singapore. A large amount of Indonesian money is kept in Singapore and it is Indonesia's, Malaysia's and, although I'm not sure, probably Thailand's biggest economic partner in Southeast Asia. The geographic arc is integrated in that respect with Singapore as its centre. Singapore is a major processing centre for much of Indonesia's natural resources for instance. 30% of Singapore's high end apartments, for instance, is bought each year by Indonesian. So, we are more integrated together.

I hope the Philippines continues to grow, but I doubt it would ever be Southeast Asia's economic centre.

The Philippines has all the elements to become SEA's economic centre. If we Filipinos get our asses right and stop politicking and corruption we can become SEA's richest country. I know I'm being an optimistic here, but according to a PricewaterhouseCoopers' study, Metro Manila may become the richest city in SEA by 2020 and is ranked 30 among other cities in the world! Kaya natin to, at makakaya natin to!:cheers::cheers:
SOURCE (http://www.citymayors.com/statistics/richest-cities-2020.html)
Among SEA countries:
*City Urban Area / Country
Est GDP in 2020 in US$ /Est Annual Growth 2005-2020

1. Metro Manila, Philippines
$257 Billion, 5.90%

2. Jakarta, Indonesia
$253 Billion, 6.50%

3. Singapore, Singapore
$218 Billion, 3.60%

4. Bangkok, Thailand
$180 Billion, 4.80%

5. Ho Chi Min City, Vietnam
$98 Billion, 6.50%

6. Hanoi, Vietnam
$73 Billion, 6.60%

7. Bandung, Indonesia
$69 Billion, 6.70%

8. Yangon, Burma
$33 Billion, 4.80%

The Philippines has all the elements to become SEA's economic centre. If we Filipinos get our asses right and stop politicking and corruption we can become SEA's richest country. I know I'm being an optimistic here, but according to a PricewaterhouseCoopers' study, Metro Manila may become the richest city in SEA by 2020 and is ranked 30 among other cities in the world! Kaya natin to, at makakaya natin to!:cheers::cheers:
SOURCE (http://www.citymayors.com/statistics/richest-cities-2020.html)
Among SEA countries:
*City Urban Area / Country
Est GDP in 2020 in US$ /Est Annual Growth 2005-2020

1. Metro Manila, Philippines
$257 Billion, 5.90%

2. Jakarta, Indonesia
$253 Billion, 6.50%

3. Singapore, Singapore
$218 Billion, 3.60%

4. Bangkok, Thailand
$180 Billion, 4.80%

5. Ho Chi Min City, Vietnam
$98 Billion, 6.50%

6. Hanoi, Vietnam
$73 Billion, 6.60%

7. Bandung, Indonesia
$69 Billion, 6.70%

8. Yangon, Burma
$33 Billion, 4.80%

Well that's an interesting analyis... What more if we finally developed the planned Manila Bay City? :banana:

Trade between Philippines, Chinese mainland hits record high
(Xinhua)
Updated: 2008-01-25 17:56


The trade volume between the Philippines and the Chinese mainland last year surged to a record high of $30.62 billion, the Chinese embassy in the Philippines said on Thursday.

The bilateral trade growth in 2007, an increase of almost ten-fold from $3.14 billion in 2000, is prominent, said Liang Wentao, China's Economic and Commercial Counselor in Manila.

The 2007 trade volume surpassed the $30 billion goal for 2010 that was set in 2005 when Chinese President Hu Jingtao visited the Philippines, he said, adding that the average annual increase over the past seven years in bilateral trade between the two countries is at a high of at least 35 percent.

"Since the start of the 21st century, the vigorous growth trend (between the two countries) is very prominent. By year 2006, the trade volume hit $23.41 billion or 360 times as much as that of 1975 when the two nations established diplomatic relations," the Chinese embassy official said.

The increasing trade volume between the Philippines and the Chinese mainland "strongly indicates the huge development potential of bilateral trade," he said.

The Philippines is the Chinese mainland's 19th biggest trading partner, and fourth among the ASEAN countries. Other ASEAN countries include Brunei, Cambodia, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar, Singapore, Thailand, and Vietnam.

On the other hand, the Chinese mainland is now the third biggest trading partner of the Philippines, and China as a whole, the biggest if Philippine trade with Hong Kong Special Administrative Region and Taiwan Province are included.

The diplomat attributes the consistent trade growth to the continuous strengthening of the friendly bilateral relationship.

"The frequent exchange of high-level visits by the leaders of both countries has greatly promoted the comprehensive cooperation between two sides in every field," he said.

Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao visited the Philippines in early 2007, while Philippine President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo visited China four times in the year alone, which "breaks the record ever made by a leader in visiting a specific country," Liang said.

The Chinese diplomat said from 2000 to 2007, the balance of trade between the Philippines and China has always been in favor of the Philippines, increasing from $220 million in 2000 to $15.62 billion in 2007.

Chinese exports to the Philippines consist of electronic products, textiles and clothing, steel, and light industrial products, among others. On the other hand, he said Philippine exports to China consists 80 percent electronic products.

"The trade complement between two sides needs to be enhanced," the counselor said.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2008-01/25/content_6421890.htm

That is exactly what our government should be doing, developing that philippines' northeast asian triangle as what Wench illustrated to us, with China, HK, and Taiwan as our "other" triangle economic growth partners. This is also good because we can't just rely too much from our american trade partner... Actually i think the philippines should also look more to invest at our middleastern asian friends... :banana:

^^we also have to develop our economic ties with EU and Latin America esp Mexico, Chile and Brazil. They are growing really fast. We could learn from them esp that we almost have the same culture.

For the 2020 prediction, these type of calculations are very fickle. It requires a constant (or constantly increasing) amount of growth rate for the whole period. The problem is that, growth rate is also a fickle thing which will have to take into account many conditional factors which will likely change in the coming years. Such calculations, for most of the time, will likely amount to almost nothing.

I don't really think that these growth triangles are very much an expression of economic integration as it is political designs. The Riau-Singapore-Johore triangle maybe one of the few that can call itself truly economically integrated, but, for instance, the North-Celebes-Sarawak-Southern Philippines one is hardly economically integrated and hardly an industrial centre. Plus, you're down-playing Singapore's role in the geographic Arc I was talking about earlier as a service centre for the entire zone: as a financial, technical and knowledge centre. It is the only mature economy for the region and plays an important central role for trade and industry for the countries of Malaysia, Indonesia and Thailand.

I think Vietnam is probably more integrated to China than we think. I'm not sure how much China-based FDI Vietnam receives. In Indonesia and Malaysia, the biggest source of their FDI actually comes from financially loaded Singapore. It would be interesting to see where the Philippines obtain most of their FDI. For instance, Indonesia received a little more than 10 billion dollars of realized FDI for the period of January-November 2007 and the biggest investor (about 3.7 billion) comes from Singapore.

Plus, I doubt that Brunei would have much of an impact on the overall economic growth of Southeast Asia as its economy is very small.

I just illustrated to you the newly southeast asian economic growth triangles, without disregarding the singaporian's important role. I said newly established eastern growth triangle, and not the existing southern triangle where singapore is already included.

^^yes. I agree. There are many things that could happen in 23 years. It's just a prediction, anyway.

^^we also have to develop our economic ties with EU and Latin America esp Mexico, Chile and Brazil. They are growing really fast. We could learn from them esp that we almost have the same culture.


I agree. Specially now that the RP government hve reinstated the Spanish Language. :cheers:

Interesting FDI figures for Vietnam. They are truly being integrated with the Northeast Asian economies. It actually mirrors what had happened to the Asian Tigers in the 1990s: with most source of growth from Northeast Asia. After the crisis, we see that more investment and trade figures occur on a regional level for Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore indicating increasing economic integration.

I agree. Specially now that the RP government hve reinstated the Spanish Language. :cheers:And India too. I'm just glad that we are not so dependent on the US unlike before. At least we wouldn't be that affected... I hope.

a lil bit :)

Interesting FDI figures for Vietnam. They are truly being integrated with the Northeast Asian economies. It actually mirrors what had happened to the Asian Tigers in the 1990s: with most source of growth from Northeast Asia. After the crisis, we see that more investment and trade figures occur on a regional level for Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore indicating increasing economic integration.


What Vietnam??? Philippines though was the least affected by the asian flu...

THIS IS ANOTHER THING THAT WE SHOULD BE DOING, THE IMPLEMENTING OF BRT SYSTEM:


Bangkok's new form of mass transportation - the Bus Rapid Transit or BRT - is expected to boost property prices along its route, according to the research team at leading property consultants CB Richard Ellis.






Bangkok, Thailand (PRWEB) August 31, 2007 -- Bangkok's new form of mass transportation - the Bus Rapid Transit or BRT - is expected to boost property prices along its route, according to the research team at leading property consultants CB Richard Ellis http://www.cbre.co.th



The BRT is a bus system. The buses will mainly travel on exclusive lanes with no other traffic; however, the buses will share lanes with other vehicles in some parts of the route. The buses are also designed with a GPS system that will give them priority at traffic lights. The Bangkok Metropolitan Administration will buy specially designed buses with a maximum capacity to carry 80-140 people per ride and the buses will depart every 5-10 minutes.

The first BRT route will start at the Chong Nonsi BTS station, run along Narathiwas-Ratchanakarin Road, to Rama III Road, across Rama III Bridge onto Ratchadapisek Road, and end at the Ratchada station of the extended BTS route to Thonburi.

The BRT project was proposed by Bangkok Governor Apirak Gosayothin in 2004, but it was only in January 2007 that the project was actually started. The project is expected to be ready for public use by the end of the first quarter of 2008.

The majority of buildings along the route are residential. There are currently about 14,000 to 15,000 completed condominium units along Narathiwas-Ratchanakarin and Rama III Roads. Some 5,900 condominium units are under construction. These projects are expected to be completed in 2007-2009, effectively raising the total condominium stock in the area to over 20,000 units in the next two years.

Also, there are currently close to 500,000 sq.m. of office space and some 53,000 sq.m. of retail space in the area. Retail developments along the route include Makro Sathon, Future Mart Plaza, and Tesco Lotus.

CB Richard Ellis believes that the better accessibility brought about by the BRT will increase demand for land and properties along the roads; however, the appreciation of properties will be closely linked with the quality of the bus system's service.

Land prices along established mass transit routes such as the BTS and MRT have risen substantially as people switch to using the mass transit system.

"The magnitude of the impact that the BRT will have on the property development in the areas along Narathiwas-Ratchanakarin and Rama III depends on the quality of BRT service. Some of the key factors to the success of the BRT system are the reliability and frequency of the buses. If the BRT proves to be a success story, the areas along Rama III and Narathiwas-Ratchanakarin Roads will be another location that both property developers and home buyers have to keep an eye on," said Mr. Navaphol Viriyakunkit, a Research Manager at CB Richard Ellis.

Transportation infrastructure such as mass transit systems always have a major impact on property development in metropolitan centers around the globe. In Bangkok, the BTS and MRT systems have gradually changed the way city dwellers in Bangkok live and commute. The change in lifestyle of people living in the capital has continued to affect property development in many ways.

Condominiums along mass transit lines have recently become popular among city dwellers who sacrifice larger space for closer proximity to the city. Access to a BTS or MRT station has become a critical factor in determining the success of retail and commercial developments.

Existing residents along the proposed route will look forward to the opening of the BRT route which if successful, will not only improve accessibility and reduce commute times, but also add to the attractiveness and value of properties along the route.




Source: PRWeb: Business Real Estate

http://extrarealty.blogspot.com/2007/08/cb-richard-ellis-thailand-predicts.html

Strategies Enhancing Bus Rapid Transit Development In Asean Developing Cities - A Case Study On Bangkok Metropolitan Administration Project

http://pubsindex.trb.org/orderform.html
Source Data: Transportation Research Board Annual Meeting 2007 Paper #07-2733


Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) has increasingly become an attractive urban transit alternative in many Asian developing cities due to its cost-effectiveness, flexible implementation, and high performance. Nevertheless, it still seems difficult to introduce the BRT to these cities because almost all of their city structures have been developed under a solely road transport development city plan and a weakness in land use control giving rise to many problems, such as urban sprawl, traffic congestion, and air pollution. The purpose of this study aims to introduce strategies to support BRT implementation in Asian developing cities, such as a strategy to integrate appropriately the paratransit into BRT as being a feeder along the BRT corridor to supply demand. These proposing strategies are evaluated by applying demand forecasting and emission models to the BRT project plan of Bangkok Metropolitan Administration in Thailand. It has been demonstrated that the proposing strategies could effectively improve the BRT ridership, traffic condition, and air pollution emission of the entire system in Bangkok. This study could be further extended to include strategy recommendations if a BRT system is introduced to other Asian developing cities.


http://pubsindex.trb.org/document/view/default.asp?lbid=802372
----------------------------------------------------

I know why the RP government is not really keen on implementing the BRT system because they wouldn't be able to collect that much revenues from these private bus companies. Not unless if they find some way to... :cheers:

FROM INDIA:

Innovative Bus Systems Offering Affordable, Clean Urban Transport for Asia


AGRA, INDIA (8 December 2004) - At a time when many of Asia's cities are choking from the mass of vehicles on the roads, bus rapid transport (BRT) systems offer one relatively affordable, clean, and sustainable solution to urban pollution and public transport snarl-ups, according to an ADB official.

Under the BRT system, a section of the road, preferably the central part, is dedicated to buses that work like a light-rail transit system. BRT improves the quality of traffic on roads by putting the buses on a separate track, providing bus stations with level boarding and alighting, pre-pay systems, covered shelters and a place for users to park their cycles. Buses stop at designated stops, are clean, well maintained and the bus staff are well trained.

Realizing the importance of developing safe and sustainable urban transport systems in Asian cities, the ADB-supported Clean Air Initiative for Asian Cities (CAI-Asia) has launched a pilot project to develop a sustainable model of urban transport (PSUTA). The project is being tested in Pune, Hanoi and Xi'an. "This project will highlight that expensive rail systems are not the only solutions to public transport problems," says ADB Lead Transport Specialist Charles Melhuish. "There are other public transport possibilities, which these cities must consider. The Bus Rapid Transit system is one such solution."

This concept was pioneered in Curitiba, Brazil in 1970s. Curitiba has a good medium sized BRT with buses that can carry 280 passengers each.

A large number of cities in Latin America have started using a BRT system and several in Asia are considering it to meet their mass transit needs. BRT systems are currently operating in Kunming, People's Republic of China; Taipei,China; and several Japanese cities. They are under construction in Jakarta and Beijing and are being discussed in New Delhi and Seoul.

One of the most successful BRT systems in the world is in Bogota, where former Mayor Enrique Peñalosa borrowed from the Curitaba example to create not only the TransMillenio BRT, but also developed quality spaces for pedestrians and bicyclists.

But Bogota is not just about buses. "We had to build a city not for businesses or automobiles, but for children and people from all walks of life. Instead of building highways, we restricted car use," he says. "We invested in high-quality sidewalks, pedestrian streets, parks, bicycle paths, libraries; we got rid of thousands of cluttering commercial signs and planted trees. All our everyday efforts have one objective: Happiness," he says. According to Mr. Peñalosa, Governments must understand that parking on sidewalks is not a constitutional right.

"Till about 80 years ago, most people walked to work. Automobiles have enabled us to expand our cities and convert them into monsters," says Stockholm Environment Institute Research Leader Professor John Whitelegg. "We now build cities that respect vehicles and not human dignity. To me public transport is a matter of human rights. Roads are not safe for pedestrians and cyclists and there is chaos on the roads created by a huge population of private vehicles. The cities are noisy, the air polluted is, there's excessive traffic on the roads and the quality of life has deteriorated."

The World Health Organization estimates that urban air pollution annually contributes to about 800,000 deaths and 4.6 million lost life-years worldwide. A large percentage of the air pollution comes from vehicles. According to World Bank estimates, globally more than 1.17 million people die in road accidents every year, with 70% of these accidents happening in the developing countries and 65% involve pedestrians. More than 10 million are crippled or injured.

Many policymakers and governments believe creating a safe and environment-friendly transport system will cost millions of dollars. However, many environmentalists believe that it is actually the lack of political will to solve the urban transport problem, which leads to projects such as the BRT being overlooked.

"It is difficult to get governments to request us for support for urban transport. Most requests are made for big ticket projects like national highways", says Mr. Melhuish. If governments were to spend money on improving the urban public transport system and creating walkways, which are pedestrian and cyclist friendly, residents would be happier.

A BRT system can be 10 to 100 times cheaper to carry out than a rail system. "It provides metro level service at almost 1% of the cost. It can be planned and implemented in just three years," says Country Director for India, China, and Bangladesh of the Institute of Transportation and Development Policy Karl Fjellstrom. "What is important is to think about bus lanes, operations, management, and infrastructure all at the same time. Bogota spent US$6 million just on planning. On the other hand, Brisbane did not plan their system well and ended up spending US$11.2 million on redesigning just one BRT station."


The regulation of BRT and integration of non-motorized transport are important for successful implementation. "The success story of BRT system development in Jakarta through Indonesia Livable Community Initiative project has shifted approximately 14% of busway passengers from private car," says Indonesia Transport Researcher Tory Damantoro. "The existing busway system, however, lacks an integrated feeder system. Public transport route restructuring and institutional reforms are facing huge barriers due to conflicts of interest from the different stakeholders and sectors."

To succeed a public transport system has to encourage a shift from private transport and reduce congestion on the roads. It has to be seen as convenient and safe both for its users as well as pedestrians and cyclists.

"A sustainable transport system must provide mobility and accessibility to all urban residents in a safe and environment friendly mode of transport, which is a complex and difficult task," says Prof. Dinesh Mohan, of the Indian Institute of Technology in New Delhi. "Pedestrians, cyclists and non-motorized rickshaws form the most important part of mixed traffic."

In Indonesia, this situation has created an opportunity for cycling to become an environmental-friendly feeder for the BRT system. "The initiative is to provide a network of cycle paths as one of the busway feeder systems, says Mr. Damantaro. "Several preliminary outreach programs have been undertaken such as simulation of cycle paths and a 'bike-to-work' programme. Providing cycle paths will promote this mode of transport and change people's perception on cycling and other nonmotorized means of transport."

CAI-Asia has organized this week's ADB-supported workshop on Better Air Quality (BAQ) 2004, in Agra. Almost 650 people from 35 countries across the world are participating in what is the largest air quality workshop in Asia. Through presentations and focused discussions, BAQ 2004 will contribute to improving the science on which Air Quality Management (AQM) in Asia is based, strengthening the governance structure for urban AQM, and developing stronger stakeholder networks on AQM in Asia.

http://www.adb.org/media/Articles/2004/6447_india_baq/

You should also look at TransJakarta, probably the best BRT system in SEA, modelled after Bogota's TransMillenio.

You should also look at TransJakarta, probably the best BRT system in SEA, modelled after Bogota's TransMillenio.

yeah i checked it but couldn't find any photos yet... most of its parts though are still being constructed if im not mistaken...

Well that's an interesting analyis... What more if we finally developed the planned Manila Bay City? :banana:



That is exactly what our government should be doing, developing that philippines' northeast asian triangle as what Wench illustrated to us, with China, HK, and Taiwan as our "other" triangle economic growth partners. This is also good because we can't just rely too much from our american trade partner... Actually i think the philippines should also look more to invest at our middleastern asian friends... :banana:

WENCH???

Anyway, when I look at it, The Philippines doesn't need to be SEA's economic centre. First world or a highly developed country would be enough.

The Phillippines needs to foster stronger ties with China for investment and trade. It is already booming immensely but there is so much more room for growth, the sky is the limit. The investment climate has to be improved. Currently there's way too much regulation and red tape. A stable, simple and transparent business climate is the key in addition to sound fiscal and monetary policies and more efficient government spending which should be directed especially at infrastructure but also improved education. Manila should be the main hub for Chinese investments and trade in southeast Asia, what it has to do is to grab the opportunity. Sure, the Phillippines would be more dependant on China, but when the reward is a substantially higher growth rate and poverty alleviation, it is a good bargain. :)

WENCH???

Anyway, when I look at it, The Philippines doesn't need to be SEA's economic centre. First world or a highly developed country would be enough.

bakit nga ba wench ako ng wench... sorry dude... first world? oh thats for sure is enough! :cheers:

The Phillippines needs to foster stronger ties with China for investment and trade. It is already booming immensely but there is so much more room for growth, the sky is the limit. The investment climate has to be improved. Currently there's way too much regulation and red tape. A stable, simple and transparent business climate is the key in addition to sound fiscal and monetary policies and more efficient government spending which should be directed especially at infrastructure but also improved education. Manila should be the main hub for Chinese investments and trade in southeast Asia, what it has to do is to grab the opportunity. Sure, the Phillippines would be more dependant on China, but when the reward is a substantially higher growth rate and poverty alleviation, it is a good bargain. :)

Not too dependent though, there are others like the south american and middle eastern nations. Because what if china falls, right? :)

Here's the thread on TransJakarta:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=314069

how about Jakarta? Ang bilis nila.

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t285/acen_keren/jakskyline.jpg

I agree. If all of their skyscrapers were placed in a single location, it will look denser than Makati, IMO. I also think they have more skyscrapers than Bangkok by looking at this photo.

manila and jakarta looks similar eh

Here's the thread on TransJakarta:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=314069

hows everything in jakarta? do you still have some problems with squatters? tnx! :)

I don't think the squatter problem will be solved anytime soon now.

I agree. If all of their skyscrapers were placed in a single location, it will look denser than Makati, IMO. I also think they have more skyscrapers than Bangkok by looking at this photo.

Jakarta has an LA style where you have high-rise buildings surrounded by low-rise structures. And most of them are in a single location which is within central part of the city.

The skyline if more linear where you have skyscrapers built around Jalam Thamrin and nearby areas. Though some spread from left to right

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a41/hkwanch/googleearth/jakarta.jpg

Makati's skyline is more rounded up and has a Manhattan style density

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a41/hkwanch/googleearth/makaticbd.jpg

Both skylines are great but here's how I see it.

Jakarta

+alot of buildings being buiilt, well balance in terms of height, good combination of residential and offices, good architecture, well layed out

-lack of supertalls or anything over 700 ft.

Metro Manila

+dense, well clustered, well balanced in height, some buildings over 700 ft.

-too many residentials better balance it with some commercials, lack of iconic scraper or supertalls, needs more variety in architecture not just concrete.

Anyone knows the population figure for the metropolitan Manila area, counting the latest migrants to the city? Could it surpass 20 million people in a few years?

Here's the thread on TransJakarta:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=314069

We need this kind of bus system in metro manila, especially in EDSA. The highway is getting too cramped because of the buses. This will also avoid colorum too. I thought jakarta will be having their MRT?

Jakarta is in preparatory stages of making a single line of MRT, which is pretty ridiculous. Its planned to be completed in 2014 and is being payed by the Japanese.

How much is 700 feet? We're building several buildings that are taller than 200 meters.

Jakarta is in preparatory stages of making a single line of MRT, which is pretty ridiculous. Its planned to be completed in 2014 and is being payed by the Japanese.

How much is 700 feet? We're building several buildings that are taller than 200 meters.

Wisma 46 is 262 m / 850 ft. Its arguebly the most iconic in Jakarta. The average skyscraper in Downtown LA is around 700 ft which I sometimes used. Shinjuku on the other hand have their average height between 600 to 700 ft.

I'm not in favour of BRT in Manila. And if they do, the government has to be really strict on enforcing its routes cause there are undisiplined drivers in Manila's streets and some of them would cross the lines.

Manila is better off expanding its railways and metros.

BRT is good, but building its dedicated lanes might add up in Metro Manila's problematic traffic. Not unless if they can control the number of buses and jeepneys operating in manila to lessen the traffic.

Anyway, why don't we just first upgrade our regular bus services across the region, similar to the BRT in terms of ticketing system, scheduled routes, and with all the BRT's bus features, but have no dedicated bus lanes?

^^ unless we expand our roads. which is obviously difficult? impossible?

^^I guess, widening of roads is not impossible only if the government has the will to do it...Manila badly needs wide roads and avenues same with other cities in the country.

i think we also need to improve our sidewalks. i saw wide and beautiful roads in the philippines, but the walkways suck really. i won't be surprised why people would even use part of the road as sidewalks, you just have to look at it and it'll speak for itself.

i think we also need to improve our sidewalks. i saw wide and beautiful roads in the philippines, but the walkways suck really. i won't be surprised why people would even use part of the road as sidewalks, you just have to look at it and it'll speak for itself.

The only thing is some areas in Manila and parts of Rizal don't have space for pavements :eek:

But those in the CBDs have some nice walkable ones

^^ unless we expand our roads. which is obviously difficult? impossible?

Some laws should really be implemented against those businesses and residential establishments that build their houses right beside the national roads (that are opened for the public traffic/transit) without any sidewalk separations.

Its not impossible though to rebuild the road widenings in our street. But streets like the one we found along adriatico or padre faura in manila, they are unavoidable, its more like a permanent markings. Basically, buses can still operate along the 2 lane roads, but any BRT busways cannot be built there.

BTW, here are some cool photos for our BRT buses:

http://a406.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/88/l_79117c11eeed6beec3b5257797bbd19d.jpg
http://a331.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/82/l_7051de97b1ae0fd66a0c9050c913471a.jpg
http://a532.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/39/l_17e348da1bef0a91d972f27a5adff963.jpg
http://a42.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/38/l_c3bd82e34c27abc6056a6a2983fb8c11.jpg

This is just saying that BRT stations doesn't have to be elevated all the time, and so the buses doesn't have to be like the ones in transjakarta. Photos are from the canadian city of Vaughn's BRT system with no dedicated busways.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/41/75920020_80b2fe726c.jpg?v=0
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2037/2086805602_5f9674d291.jpg?v=0
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2117/2086019775_654bb18083.jpg?v=0

BRT Bus stations/terminals
http://transit.toronto.on.ca/images/gotransit-2303-01.jpg
http://transit.toronto.on.ca/images/gotransit-2303-02.jpg
Ticket vending machine
http://transit.toronto.on.ca/images/gotransit-2303-05.jpg
Bus stop
http://i.pbase.com/g4/00/116400/2/60282129.VivaBusStop_2.jpg

Nice eh? :cheers:

^^Yup..i've seen those...the VIVA system really is a good model for how to build an efficient BRT system thats integrated into the city streets.

i like the second pic, it looks like an elongated beetle car!

http://pic60.picturetrail.com/VOL1698/10588304/18969014/303652641.jpg

Jakarta has an LA style where you have high-rise buildings surrounded by low-rise structures. And most of them are in a single location which is within central part of the city.

The skyline if more linear where you have skyscrapers built around Jalam Thamrin and nearby areas. Though some spread from left to right

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a41/hkwanch/googleearth/jakarta.jpg

Makati's skyline is more rounded up and has a Manhattan style density

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a41/hkwanch/googleearth/makaticbd.jpg

Both skylines are great but here's how I see it.

Jakarta

+alot of buildings being buiilt, well balance in terms of height, good combination of residential and offices, good architecture, well layed out

-lack of supertalls or anything over 700 ft.

Metro Manila

+dense, well clustered, well balanced in height, some buildings over 700 ft.

-too many residentials better balance it with some commercials, lack of iconic scraper or supertalls, needs more variety in architecture not just concrete.

^^ This could actually be the reason why the Jakarta CBD would look more massive compared to the Makati CBD when on aerial view. Jakarta's buildings are scattered, while it's otherwise with Makati's situation.

Regarding the type of buildings being built in and around Manila/Makati, I agree that most of them are residential and we lack commercial high-rises. Well, it's a good manifestation that a lot of residential companies are confident in Manila's/Makati's ability in providing good business for them. But I do think that commercial high-rises are indeed a better indicator of good business in a particular location.

Those buses look wicked. Manila badly needs those types of buses and a BRT system. Our city streets are all clogged out.

^^ Yeah, the buses look good. But I think it will only look good in Makati, Ortigas and BGC. :D

^^ This could actually be the reason why the Jakarta CBD would look more massive compared to the Makati CBD when on aerial view. Jakarta's buildings are scattered, while it's otherwise with Makati's situation.

Regarding the type of buildings being built in and around Manila/Makati, I agree that most of them are residential and we lack commercial high-rises. Well, it's a good manifestation that a lot of residential companies are confident in Manila's/Makati's ability in providing good business for them. But I do think that commercial high-rises are indeed a better indicator of good business in a particular location.

Its the same as KL, most KL high-rises sprouting up are condos. Even in HK or NY the majority of high-rises are residential and its the same trend in Miami, Panama City, Vancouver or any other major city. But still, the tallest and most iconic buildings in Metro Manila right now are still commercial/office. And there are lots of them especially in Makati and Ortigas. Note that some condos in the CBDs are used as office space.

High-rise condos are becoming the trend these days if not, mixed used scrapers kinda like The Burj Dubai

i like the second pic, it looks like an elongated beetle car!

http://pic60.picturetrail.com/VOL1698/10588304/18969014/303652641.jpg

Its futuristic too!

But still, the tallest and most iconic buildings in Metro Manila right now are still commercial/office. And there are lots of them especially in Makati and Ortigas.

I never realized that until now. Oo nga no? PBCom, GT Tower, LKG Tower and UnionBank are some of the country's tallest towers, which are commercial ones. But I'm waiting for the Lopez Tower and the Entertainment City's Observatory Tower (Whatever you call it! :D)

I never realized that until now. Oo nga no? PBCom, GT Tower, LKG Tower and UnionBank are some of the country's tallest towers, which are commercial ones. But I'm waiting for the Lopez Tower and the Entertainment City's Observatory Tower (Whatever you call it! :D)

You're forgetting the Petron Megaplaza which is supposed to be the third tallest building.

^^ Oh yeah. Forgot that one. :)

Power of discipline (http://www.sunstar.com.ph/static/dav/2008/03/10/feat/power.of.discipline.html)

When I was still in high school, one of the most often-quoted lines was: "Sa ikauunlad ng bayan, disiplina ang kailangan." Literally, it means that what we need to make this country progressive is discipline.

If only, at that time, Filipinos followed that mantra, the Philippines would have been along with Singapore now in terms of progress. During a leadership conference, Singaporean Prime Minister Lee Kuan Yew shared how he built his country from nothing to where it is today.

"A showcase of Asia without poverty, without the overcrowding, or space," observed one author.

To think of, barely a generation ago, Singapore was far worse than many of its peers. When Lee Kuan Yew first started to lead Singapore, he asked his think tanks to visit neighboring Asian countries like the Philippines, Indonesia, Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia, and figure out what they don't have.

When his people returned, they gave him a unanimous observation: they lacked discipline. So to differentiate Singapore from its neighbors, he decided to build his country on discipline.

In a speech delivered during a graduation at the Silliman University in Dumaguete, Menardo G. Jimenez, explained to the new graduates what discipline is really all about: "This meant that if Singapore promised something to its people, to its foreign investors, and to other countries, it will be fulfilled. A disciplined country and a disciplined people - that's what he built Singapore on."

"No one achieves and sustains success without discipline," wrote 'New York Times' best selling author John C. Maxwell.

Bertrand Russell agrees, "Nothing of importance is ever achieved without discipline. I feel myself sometimes not wholly in sympathy with some modern educational theorists, because I think that they underestimate the part that discipline plays. But the discipline you have in your life should be one determined by your own desires and your own needs, not put upon you by society or authority."

You may be talented, wealthy and famous, but without discipline, you are nothing. As author H. Jackson Brown Jr. reiterated, "Talent without discipline is like an octopus on roller skates. There's plenty of movement, but you never know if it's going to be forward, backwards, or sideways."

George Washington, the first American president, noted: "Discipline is the soul of an army. It makes small numbers formidable, procures success to the weak, and esteem to all." David Campbell pointed out: "Discipline is remembering what you want." Four-time Oscar winner Katharine Hepburn observed, "Without discipline, there's no life at all."

An unknown author once penned: "Discipline, like the bridle in the hand of a good rider, should exercise its influence without appearing, to do so; should be ever active, both as a support and as a restraint, yet seem to lie easily in hand. It must always be ready to check or to pull up, as occasion may require; and only when the horse is a runaway should the action of the curb be perceptible."

Do you think Filipinos are disciplined people? Allow me give you an illustration. In 2000, I went to the United States for the first time. I was waiting for our plane at the airport in Manila. When it was time for boarding, I was surprised to see people forming a line when boarding of passengers started. No one rushed; only those whose seats were called joined the queue. I observed that most of the passengers were foreigners - Japanese, British, Australians, and Americans. There were only a few of us Filipinos.

It was a different story at all when I returned home. We were Detroit airport and there were so many passengers, mostly Filipinos and balikbayans. When it was time for boarding, all passengers rushed towards the two attendants who were collecting the tickets. "Sir, we are boarding only those from 51 to 65," the attendant explained. "And yours is 24C." The male passenger replied, "But I came here first. So, allow me to board first then!"

It was total chaos. The scene reminded me when I was boarding from Davao to Manila. But then, Detroit is not in the Philippines. We were still in the United States and these people were already behaving like Filipinos - rude and without discipline. As for non-Filipinos? They were at the back, just waiting for their numbers to be called.

"Man must be disciplined, for he is by nature raw and wild," commented German philosopher Immanuel Kant.

^^that article says it like it is. My friends tell me that the reason they like going back to the Philippines for vacation is because it is so laid back there. Everyone just relaxes and does whatever they want. At the time I didn't really know if that was a good thing or a bad thing. There was a time when our country's economy ranked second only to Japan and that was only about one generation ago. Now were struggling to catch up to our ASEAN neighbours. Without discipline you go nowhere.

I agree completely with this:
An unknown author once penned: "Discipline, like the bridle in the hand of a good rider, should exercise its influence without appearing, to do so; should be ever active, both as a support and as a restraint, yet seem to lie easily in hand. It must always be ready to check or to pull up, as occasion may require; and only when the horse is a runaway should the action of the curb be perceptible."
Unfortunately it is easier said than done.

Checking into Bumrungrad Hospital
The hospital in Bangkok is attracting a growing number of American patients seeking high-quality care for a fraction of the cost at home

by Bruce Einhorn

Bumrungrad, one of the top hospitals in Thailand, is trying to attract more patients from the U.S. and other countries.

Curtis Schroeder, the American who runs Bumrungrad Hospital, the top medical center in Bangkok, decided a few years ago to try marketing the hospital to insurance companies in the U.S. "We came up with the concept that Americans would want a health-care product that would take advantage of lower prices" in Thailand, he says.

The response was pretty underwhelming. "We couldn't get anyone to return our phone calls," he says. "We were looking at a lot of closed doors." And those executives who did speak to Schroeder and his team told them that selling Thailand as a medical destination to employers and employees in the U.S. was impossible. "They said Americans will never go overseas," Schroeder says.

More and more Americans are checking into his hospital, though. Last year, 65,000 Americans went to Bumrungrad for in-patient or outpatient treatment, up from just 10,000 in 2001. And of those 65,000, about half of them were U.S. residents who flew across the Pacific to Thailand for medical care. (The others were American expatriates living in Thailand or other parts of Southeast Asia.) Many of the patients from the U.S. were uninsured, taking advantage of medical costs in Bangkok that are just a fraction of those in American hospitals.

"A Symptom of the Problem"

The Thai hospital has been a beneficiary of the crisis in health care in the U.S., where some 47 million Americans are without health insurance and health-care inflation is becoming a bigger concern for companies. "We are not positioning ourselves to be the solution to America's health-care problems," says Schroeder. "To some degree, we are a symptom of the problem. We are a very glaring example that there is something wrong. Otherwise [the American patients] wouldn't be coming. They're not coming because they like Thai food; they're coming because they have no other choice."

Schroeder is expecting the numbers to keep growing: Last month, Bumrungrad announced an alliance with Blue Cross & Blue Shield of South Carolina, with the American insurer agreeing to cover expenses for members who travel from the U.S. to the Thai hospital (BusinessWeek.com, 3/13/08). Bumrungrad has recently arranged for executives from other insurers and their corporate clients to take what the hospital calls "familiarization trips" to visit the Bangkok facility.

Other hospitals, including some in Singapore and India, have also teamed up with the South Carolina insurer, which is betting that some members with high-deductible plans in the U.S. would be willing to travel abroad rather than having to pay thousands of dollars out of pocket for operations in American hospitals. "We are working with groups to consider a global health-care option that would provide more of a financial incentive for employees to travel abroad for care," explains David Boucher, assistant vice-president of health-care services at Blue Cross & Blue Shield of South Carolina.
A Boon to the Bottom Line

And more insurers will be getting in on the act, predicts Ruben Toral, the chief executive officer of Mednet Asia, a consulting firm that has advised Bumrungrad and other Asian hospitals. "Health care won't be too much different from manufacturing," says Toral. "It's going to start to move to lower-cost areas. In the next five to 10 years, we will look a flattening of the health-care world and will see insurers allow policyholders to select and choose medical options from a worldwide base of providers."

Medical tourism has helped Bumrungrad's bottom line. Revenue from foreign patients rose 14% last year, and non-Thais now account for 55% of Bumrungrad's business. In a Mar. 7 report, Phillip Securities analyst Rutsada Tweesaengsakulthai calls Bumrungrad "Thailand's leading private hospital" and predicts that revenue will grow 11.5% this year, to $618 million, with profits (after stripping out exception earnings from a sale in 2007 of a medical software subsidiary to Microsoft (MSFT) rising 12%, to $41 million.

The big problem, though, is that Bumrungrad is now too popular. It has a 70% occupancy rate for in-patients and outpatients, much lower than its bigger rival, Bangkok Dusit Medical Services. Bankgok Dusit doesn't get as many Americans but it attracts more international patients overall, with 649,000 checking in last year. Bumrungrad "is restricted by its tight capacity," wrote KGI Securities analyst Rakpong Chaisuparakul in a Feb. 20 report. That's one reason Bumrungrad's stock price has sagged, down about 15% for the year and trading near its 52-week low.

Bumrungrad has just started an expansion plan that should boost its capacity by 20% by 2012. Schroeder expects Americans to continue traveling to the hospital. "Medical inflation [in the U.S.] continues to outpace normal inflation and I don't see that reversing," he says.

Source: BusinessWeek

Power of discipline (http://www.sunstar.com.ph/static/dav/2008/03/10/feat/power.of.discipline.html)

When I was still in high school, one of the most often-quoted lines was: "Sa ikauunlad ng bayan, disiplina ang kailangan." Literally, it means that what we need to make this country progressive is discipline.

If only, at that time, Filipinos followed that mantra, the Philippines would have been along with Singapore now in terms of progress. During a leadership conference, Singaporean Prime Minister Lee Kuan Yew shared how he built his country from nothing to where it is today.

"A showcase of Asia without poverty, without the overcrowding, or space," observed one author.

To think of, barely a generation ago, Singapore was far worse than many of its peers. When Lee Kuan Yew first started to lead Singapore, he asked his think tanks to visit neighboring Asian countries like the Philippines, Indonesia, Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia, and figure out what they don't have.

When his people returned, they gave him a unanimous observation: they lacked discipline. So to differentiate Singapore from its neighbors, he decided to build his country on discipline.

In a speech delivered during a graduation at the Silliman University in Dumaguete, Menardo G. Jimenez, explained to the new graduates what discipline is really all about: "This meant that if Singapore promised something to its people, to its foreign investors, and to other countries, it will be fulfilled. A disciplined country and a disciplined people - that's what he built Singapore on."

"No one achieves and sustains success without discipline," wrote 'New York Times' best selling author John C. Maxwell.

Bertrand Russell agrees, "Nothing of importance is ever achieved without discipline. I feel myself sometimes not wholly in sympathy with some modern educational theorists, because I think that they underestimate the part that discipline plays. But the discipline you have in your life should be one determined by your own desires and your own needs, not put upon you by society or authority."

You may be talented, wealthy and famous, but without discipline, you are nothing. As author H. Jackson Brown Jr. reiterated, "Talent without discipline is like an octopus on roller skates. There's plenty of movement, but you never know if it's going to be forward, backwards, or sideways."

George Washington, the first American president, noted: "Discipline is the soul of an army. It makes small numbers formidable, procures success to the weak, and esteem to all." David Campbell pointed out: "Discipline is remembering what you want." Four-time Oscar winner Katharine Hepburn observed, "Without discipline, there's no life at all."

An unknown author once penned: "Discipline, like the bridle in the hand of a good rider, should exercise its influence without appearing, to do so; should be ever active, both as a support and as a restraint, yet seem to lie easily in hand. It must always be ready to check or to pull up, as occasion may require; and only when the horse is a runaway should the action of the curb be perceptible."

Do you think Filipinos are disciplined people? Allow me give you an illustration. In 2000, I went to the United States for the first time. I was waiting for our plane at the airport in Manila. When it was time for boarding, I was surprised to see people forming a line when boarding of passengers started. No one rushed; only those whose seats were called joined the queue. I observed that most of the passengers were foreigners - Japanese, British, Australians, and Americans. There were only a few of us Filipinos.

It was a different story at all when I returned home. We were Detroit airport and there were so many passengers, mostly Filipinos and balikbayans. When it was time for boarding, all passengers rushed towards the two attendants who were collecting the tickets. "Sir, we are boarding only those from 51 to 65," the attendant explained. "And yours is 24C." The male passenger replied, "But I came here first. So, allow me to board first then!"

It was total chaos. The scene reminded me when I was boarding from Davao to Manila. But then, Detroit is not in the Philippines. We were still in the United States and these people were already behaving like Filipinos - rude and without discipline. As for non-Filipinos? They were at the back, just waiting for their numbers to be called.

"Man must be disciplined, for he is by nature raw and wild," commented German philosopher Immanuel Kant.

Masmalupet jan yung naranasan ko.

I was riding the jeep, there was this college girl who was familiar to me by face because she was from my high school. Nagpara siya ng tatlong beses sa may bungad ng intersection, hindi tumigil yung driver. I don't think hindi narinig nung driver, but itatabi niya lang para di makadagdag sa traffic. Parang shungaks yung abbae yung, sabi ko sa malumanay na bnoses, 'itatabi lang'.

Alam mo ba ang sabi sa akin "pakialam mo ba kasi"
Sabi ko "miss, intersection yan!"
sabi niya "bakit ikaw ba yung driver"
sabi ko, miss nakitang mong intersection yan. be a responsible citizen naman
sabi niya ng padabog "okay, fine"

Grabe siya, may nakasulat na nga dun na no loading/unloading, para pa ng para!

sana tinulak mo na lang para makababa. j/k

I was lurking through Singapore threads a while ago & I'm really envious how their heritage structures blend perfectly well with modern skyscrpaers. I hope we could do that too in our country. It's not yet too late.

sana tinulak mo na lang para makababa. j/k

kung ako ihuhulog ko siguro. j/k

Masmalupet jan yung naranasan ko.

I was riding the jeep, there was this college girl who was familiar to me by face because she was from my high school. Nagpara siya ng tatlong beses sa may bungad ng intersection, hindi tumigil yung driver. I don't think hindi narinig nung driver, but itatabi niya lang para di makadagdag sa traffic. Parang shungaks yung abbae yung, sabi ko sa malumanay na bnoses, 'itatabi lang'.

Alam mo ba ang sabi sa akin "pakialam mo ba kasi"
Sabi ko "miss, intersection yan!"
sabi niya "bakit ikaw ba yung driver"
sabi ko, miss nakitang mong intersection yan. be a responsible citizen naman
sabi niya ng padabog "okay, fine"

Grabe siya, may nakasulat na nga dun na no loading/unloading, para pa ng para!which reminds me of this girl too sa QC naman. Gusto niyang pumara sa gitna ng kalye. :lol:

mahit and run sana yung mga taong ito lalo na kung may sign boards na nakasulat. LOL:banana:

mahit and run sana yung mga taong ito lalo na kung may sign boards na nakasulat. LOL:banana:

hoy sobra ka naman, ginagawa ko rin yun minsan, ang tumalon sa jeep. hahahaha

di kase yan sila dinadakip ng pulis/mmda eh. dapat multahan na yan.

I was lurking through Singapore threads a while ago & I'm really envious how their heritage structures blend perfectly well with modern skyscrpaers. I hope we could do that too in our country. It's not yet too late.


kapag matuloy sana yung plano ng PAGCOR's entertainment city at manila bay for 10 billion dollar investment, aangat talaga ang bansa natin, malaking revenue yan para sa turismo....

^^

SEA Macau na niyang ang Pilipinas. Sino kaya ang magigin Filipino Stanley Ho?

Sometimes I wonder what other nations can learn from us.


:lol:

^^ The Papaya Dance is making waves overseas, if that counts. :rofl:

^^ Yeah, that new dance fad and the "minimized the greed" government procedure on contracts. :lol:

Sometimes I wonder what other nations can learn from us.


:lol:

eto natututo daw sila mag tinikling:lol:

Mexican school kids learn RP's Tinikling dance
03/25/2008 | 06:07 PM
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MANILA, Philippines - Mexican kids may soon find themselves leaping and prancing to the agile Tinikling dance when the Philippine cultural pride is taught in a primary school there.

The Department of Foreign Affairs reported on Monday that Divina Trinidad Carolino-Gay-ya, trade assistant at the Philippine embassy in Mexico that a Mexican teacher in charge of the LDS Lomas Ward Primary at the Guadarrama Chapel, Mexico City requested earlier this month for Tinikling dance lessons for her students.

“Ms. [Catalina] Davis requested Ms. Carolino-Gay-ya to teach her class one of the famous Philippine folk dances, the ‘Tinikling,’ as part of their future activities," the DFA said in a statement.

Embassy officials delivered a briefing about the “pearl of the orient seas" last March 4 to the Primary, composed of schoolgirls aged 8 to 10, as part of the school’s project to “learn, understand, and appreciate the culture of other countries."

The Mexican schoolchildren were introduced to the Philippines through a video presentation of the “Wealth of Wonders (WOW)" and served some of the country's popular food like lumpiang shanghai, pansit and carioca (powdered glutinous rice formed into balls and dipped in melted sugar).

After the video presentation, the kids were surprised to receive a pair of pearl earrings as tokens.

“A grateful parent commented that the token made her daughter feel very special," the DFA said.

Philippine Ambassador to Mexico Antonio Lagdameo is optimistic that the exposure of foreign school children to Philippine culture would promote friendly relations between the two countries.

Tinikling is a famous Philippine cultural dance that usually involves four dancers: two holding the bamboo poles and another pair dancing. The dance imitates the movement of field birds called “tikling" as they are dodging the bamboo poles set by rice farmers. - Mark J. Ubalde, GMANews

dito sa amin sa taiwan natuto na rin sila mag gamit nang mga dirty tactics sa election, pinoy pa daw ang hired killer/assasin last time:ohno:

Many economic experts and investors both foreign and local have noted that the Philippines lacks an industrial base in manufacturing. Specifically, We lack the manufacturing capability for the basic materials necessary to build consumer and industrial products both for domestic use and export. It is so sad to note that we are so rich in raw materials and yet we lack the infrastracture to process them into more value added products. Japan, S. Korea, Taiwan do not have as much raw materials as we do so what is the missing ingredient that enabled our neighbors to surpass us? Aside from the fact that our ex-dictator sank us deep into debt and robbed us blind, what is missing is an efficient power source due to the fact that most basic industries require lots of electricity to run foundries and machineries to process minerals. If there is any consolation to Mr. Marcos, his vision of putting up the 11 major industries back in the 70s would've accelerated our country's development and the mothballed Bataan nuclear power plant would've helped lower the cost of power in our country. What industries should we establish? Here's an ideal list;

1). Integrated Steel Mill
2). Aluminum Smelter
3). Zinc Smelter
4). Nickel Smelter
5). Copper Smelter
6). Chromite Smelter
7). Magnesium Smelter
8). Petrochemicals Plant
9). Carbon Black Plant
10). Silicon Wafer Fabrication Plant
11). Finished Rubber Processing Plant
12). Lead Smelter
13). Pulp and Paper Mill

As fate would have it Marcos' plans were derailed in large part because our country was destroyed from within by George Schultz and his economic hitmen as exposed by Lyndon Larouche of the Economic Intelligence Review. Read it and your eyes will be opened.

Schultz and the Hitmen Destroyed the Philippines
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2004/site_packages/econ_hitmen/3150philipp_coup.html

It is common knowledge that within Asia our power rates are second only to Japan and our labor rates are no longer the cheapest so Is it any wonder then that our neighbors are getting more foreign direct investments than us. Just look at these statistics;

Number of Nuclear Power Plants

Japan - 18
S. Korea - 4
Taiwan - 3
China - 3

Putting up a new nuclear power plant would be too cost prohibitive nowadays for our country although it would still be a feasible solution considering its track record worldwide. But recent developments in China might be the better long term solution for our energy inefficiency. Here's the link;

Maglev Turbines 1000x more efficient than Windmills
http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/26/maglev-wind-turbines-1000x-more-effiencient-than-normal-windmill/

I believe that we are weak in manufacturing. Not only do we have a few manufacturing that is Filipino-established, but also many of our manufacturers produce 'low quality' products. Yes, there are those who produce world-class but there are only a handful. And many of these products are for exports only.

Don't you find it ironic that countries that do not have many natural resources and fertile lands like us are very progressive? Singapore has almost none, Japan too, South Korea, Taiwan but these are countries with good economy.

I agree that it is a sad reality but at least our manufacturers are providing employment. All is not lost for our country. In fact 28 quarters of continuous growth under GMA somehow prevented our country from slipping into an economic crisis. All the negative effects of the bad policies and exploitation done to us by our colonizers and bad leaders cannot be remedied overnight. No matter how bad GMA is perceived to be no one can argue about our country's improving situation. In fact the poverty level now has greatly improved and unemployment has been reduced. We should support her inspite of the recent scandals. The American people supported Bill Clinton inspite of his sexual misconducts coz the economy was booming during his time.

Pls. tell me what is the reason why we are expensive than other SEA?

I agree that it is a sad reality but at least our manufacturers are providing employment. All is not lost for our country. In fact 28 quarters of continuous growth under GMA somehow prevented our country from slipping into an economic crisis. All the negative effects of the bad policies and exploitation done to us by our colonizers and bad leaders cannot be remedied overnight. No matter how bad GMA is perceived to be no one can argue about our country's improving situation. In fact the poverty level now has greatly improved and unemployment has been reduced. We should support her inspite of the recent scandals. The American people supported Bill Clinton inspite of his sexual misconducts coz the economy was booming during his time.

Our so called growth under GMA is attributed to the inflows from OFWs, which brings in money, money that spurs trading of goods, which are now mostly imported. Hardly any is now locally made. The growth is therefore creating a bigger problem: more lazy juan tamads waiting for their OFW relatives to remit money for them to spend. For every 100 pesos that is traded with imported goods, how many people benefited? Less than 10 for sure. Because these are just the tinderas and bodegeros. If these goods were locally produced, it will mean benefiting people with work: factory workers, drivers, purchasers, admin staff, etc. Add to this the side business that develops: carinderias/cafeterias, sari sari stores, shuttle services, etc. Of course, the same 100 peso goods will still be purchased by the same OFW's families. But now? Nope, its made in China, Vietnam, Cambodia, but hardly made in the PHilippines.

^^ Yah, but remittances are part and parcel of our GNP. Our GDP, which is the most reliable measure of value and products and services WITHIN our country has significantly increased during GMA's term, reaching a 7.5 last 2007, the highest in 30 years. This can be attributed to GMA's sound economic fundumentals, fiscal reforms (such as the 12% VAT), as well as fiscal discipline - all which keeps our economy afloat despite the global crisis on food and oil, even if it has a negative impact to her popularity.

Our so called growth under GMA is attributed to the inflows from OFWs, which brings in money, money that spurs trading of goods, which are now mostly imported. Hardly any is now locally made. The growth is therefore creating a bigger problem: more lazy juan tamads waiting for their OFW relatives to remit money for them to spend. For every 100 pesos that is traded with imported goods, how many people benefited? Less than 10 for sure. Because these are just the tinderas and bodegeros. If these goods were locally produced, it will mean benefiting people with work: factory workers, drivers, purchasers, admin staff, etc. Add to this the side business that develops: carinderias/cafeterias, sari sari stores, shuttle services, etc. Of course, the same 100 peso goods will still be purchased by the same OFW's families. But now? Nope, its made in China, Vietnam, Cambodia, but hardly made in the PHilippines.
I never been agree with balikbayan box , I think its better to give money. Most of the time you can buy cheaper products in the Philippines. Btw saying that only 10% of the filipino benefit from ofws' money its incorrect. The relatives actually do live in the Philippines and they are consumers too and consumers create jobs , No money no jobs ! Just think about the banks , and the department stores and schools.
On the other hand I'm an Ofw and you are right that most of my relatives in the Philippines are all lazy bastards waiting only for overseas money !!!
I believe that we are weak in manufacturing. Not only do we have a few manufacturing that is Filipino-established, but also many of our manufacturers produce 'low quality' products. Yes, there are those who produce world-class but there are only a handful. And many of these products are for exports only.

Don't you find it ironic that countries that do not have many natural resources and fertile lands like us are very progressive? Singapore has almost none, Japan too, South Korea, Taiwan but these are countries with good economy.

I would trade all our resources and our politicians with the Japanese politicians , then let's have a comparison after 20 years let see what happen.

As many country we should start producing quality products , we can't beat the chinese they are really too cheap even for us !

Porknight, I didn't say 10%, I said 10 people benefit from a sale of 100 pesos. When you talk about department stores, schools, these are big establishments. They have more than 10 employees, yes, but they don't sell 100 pesos only. They sell millions a day. Stores that OFW families spend the money people like you send back. True, they provide employment. But what is the ratio of people employed to the amount of sales being done? Again, the same money that is remitted will always be spent by the same recipient, but mostly on imported, traded goods, that are not produced here in the Philippines. The point here is that if that same OFW remittance is used to purchase a locally produced goods, it produces more employment through the manufacturing sector, and the same department store, school you mentioned, will still be there. But now, there is a bigger employment base.

That's assuming the juan tamads are still willing to work. You can see so many pot bellied standbys already, in the middle of the day.

^^ Yah, but remittances are part and parcel of our GNP. Our GDP, which is the most reliable measure of value and products and services WITHIN our country has significantly increased during GMA's term, reaching a 7.5 last 2007, the highest in 30 years. This can be attributed to GMA's sound economic fundumentals, fiscal reforms (such as the 12% VAT), as well as fiscal discipline - all which keeps our economy afloat despite the global crisis on food and oil, even if it has a negative impact to her popularity.

Our government is relying too much on that remittance you mentioned. What GMA is doing is as you said, keeping our economy afloat. But the Philippines will never prosper and will be left behind on the next industrial/world economy boom, by other countries that put an emphasis on manufacturing, be it industrial or agricultural. We can see that already, even among south east asian countries.

Of course our GDP is up, that's because the OFW money inflows has to be spent here in the Philippines. When my friend migrated to the US around 7 years ago, I remember telling him that he belonged to the 3000 daily new OFW that the government reported leaving the Philippines at that time. And that was 7 years ago. Include those that left more than 7 years ago, and those that continued to leave from that time till now, combine all their savings they can do, sending these back to the Philippines, and there you go, an industry in itself.

That's why our peso appreciated without a strong export manufacturing sector, as the main export by the Philippines IS the OFW.

Porknight, I didn't say 10%, I said 10 people benefit from a sale of 100 pesos. When you talk about department stores, schools, these are big establishments. They have more than 10 employees, yes, but they don't sell 100 pesos only. They sell millions a day. Stores that OFW families spend the money people like you send back. True, they provide employment. But what is the ratio of people employed to the amount of sales being done? Again, the same money that is remitted will always be spent by the same recipient, but mostly on imported, traded goods, that are not produced here in the Philippines. The point here is that if that same OFW remittance is used to purchase a locally produced goods, it produces more employment through the manufacturing sector, and the same department store, school you mentioned, will still be there. But now, there is a bigger employment base.

That's assuming the juan tamads are still willing to work. You can see so many pot bellied standbys already, in the middle of the day.
Atleast is something having more people having jobs its really something. I don't really know the situation down there the last time i was there was 6 years ago , But I remember that many sectors were not covered by Filipino products so I think its normal to buy imported. Btw I see more and more filipino products here in Italy than before , only food for now In the asian mini markets they got usually a big spot . whic is nice . What I really love to see here is Mango , They sell here terrible mangoes from north africa and south america and they don't have the best in the world one ?
Probably I was thinking that the philippines having a limited land can't produce enough to sell in all part of the world.
Our government is relying too much on that remittance you mentioned. What GMA is doing is as you said, keeping our economy afloat. But the Philippines will never prosper and will be left behind on the next industrial/world economy boom, by other countries that put an emphasis on manufacturing, be it industrial or agricultural. We can see that already, even among south east asian countries.

Of course our GDP is up, that's because the OFW money inflows has to be spent here in the Philippines. When my friend migrated to the US around 7 years ago, I remember telling him that he belonged to the 3000 daily new OFW that the government reported leaving the Philippines at that time. And that was 7 years ago. Include those that left more than 7 years ago, and those that continued to leave from that time till now, combine all their savings they can do, sending these back to the Philippines, and there you go, an industry in itself.

That's why our peso appreciated without a strong export manufacturing sector, as the main export by the Philippines IS the OFW.

This is really bad , they have to use the money of the OFWs to make more money they can't always rely on them . Many of us want to see improvements and older Ofws are willing to come back when they had enough money to start new business but the government should give more positive responses.

Our government has become too shortsided, too reactive, instead of making long term plans, and being proactive. Selfishness and corruption has really taken its toll on our economy, and more importantly our culture.

There was a group that wanted to build a petrochemical facility in the Philippines some 10 years ago. We scared them away. T3 fiasco turned off a lot of foreign investors. When we have wishy washy policies that keep on changing every administration change, or even during the running administration's term, where sometimes its a 180 degree change, and totally disregarding any firm contracts in the past, really tells foreign investors: whoa... a deal is good only if you remain the flavor of the month. Don't you miss the roads that were built by the Americans, Japanese, and hey, even the Koreans, roads that were so smooth, compared to now where you know it was locally built, rough rides, and substandard where in a few years, cracks and potholes develop. You didn't see that with the foreign contractors.

What's left? Philippines now more of a trading post than a manufacturing country. But mind you, there is no problem being a trading post: look at Hongkong, and even Singapore for example. They thrive more with trading rather than manufacturing. As long as it is done right.

Don't you miss the roads that were built by the Americans, Japanese, and hey, even the Koreans, roads that were so smooth, compared to now where you know it was locally built, rough rides, and substandard where in a few years, cracks and potholes develop. You didn't see that with the foreign contractors.



Funny how your statement just reminded me of another one of my experiences while vacationing in the Philippines. While being driven around inside my Aunt's car, I noticed that roads are bumpy even though they were cemented. I was riding inside a car, not an old car but rather a well maintained SUV and it was a noticeably bumpy ride even though the road was cemented. Just an experience and not meant to bash good ole Philippines.

^^^^^^Ive also driven and still driving on cemented roadways and asphalted roadways here in the United States so somehow I have a basis for comparison. Again not to bash the Philippines but sharing experiences.

probably because most philippine manufactured autos and suv has no real good suspension..LOL I guess it depends on where you actually drive in the philippines, but then again comparing to US there are still alot of roads that needs to be improved in the Philippines. Baka naman gusto mo lang masiguro na ma-emphasize nasa USA ka rin...he he

That's assuming the juan tamads are still willing to work. You can see so many pot bellied standbys already, in the middle of the day.


Problem also is that most Filipino companies "discriminate" thus a lot of Filipinos cannot find jobs..

1.) Should be 21-25 y.o. only OR should be less than 30 y.o. :bash: (In Singapore, lots of old people working in McDonalds)

2.) Should be at least 5'6 :bash:

3.) Should submit NBI, Police, and Barangay Clearances (Isn't one more than enough????).. So meaning past offenders who are now reformed are automatically disqualified from having a job.. Even those with cases (like napagbintangan lang) are automatically disqualified from having a job;

4.) Should have pleasing personality

5.) Should be a graduate of BS Computer Science (even if the job involves typing documents in Microsoft Word or some simple programming that even an idiot can perform);

6.) Should be an accounting or business ad graduate (even if the job is only a teller in a bank or a cashier)

7.) Should be a college/university graduate (even if the job is just an assistant or a barista in a coffee shop)

....and a whole lot more...


and then there's the hidden requirement:

--> Should come from UP, Ateneo, LaSalle, etc.


...and here's a hilarious requirement:

- Submit a full body picture (found this ad in a hospital recruiting Nurses) :bash:




.....

...and here's a hilarious requirement:

- Submit a full body picture (found this ad in a hospital recruiting Nurses) :bash:




.....

With or without clothes:omg:

Problem also is that most Filipino companies "discriminate" thus a lot of Filipinos cannot find jobs..

1.) Should be 21-25 y.o. only OR should be less than 30 y.o. :bash: (In Singapore, lots of old people working in McDonalds)

2.) Should be at least 5'6 :bash:

3.) Should submit NBI, Police, and Barangay Clearances (Isn't one more than enough????).. So meaning past offenders who are now reformed are automatically disqualified from having a job.. Even those with cases (like napagbintangan lang) are automatically disqualified from having a job;

4.) Should have pleasing personality

5.) Should be a graduate of BS Computer Science (even if the job involves typing documents in Microsoft Word or some simple programming that even an idiot can perform);

6.) Should be an accounting or business ad graduate (even if the job is only a teller in a bank or a cashier)

7.) Should be a college/university graduate (even if the job is just an assistant or a barista in a coffee shop)

....and a whole lot more...


and then there's the hidden requirement:

--> Should come from UP, Ateneo, LaSalle, etc.


...and here's a hilarious requirement:

- Submit a full body picture (found this ad in a hospital recruiting Nurses) :bash:
.....
Yeah even for salesmen/ladies positions on a department store they require atleast 2 years or more at college according to one of my many cousins.
Then I really hate when the require pleasant personality . Not everybody were been blessed with beauty .

Its unfair , I can understand for positions like prostitute you need to be beautiful but for being a nurse , saleslady/man , cashier in bank.. ecc.
You don't need to be good looking , you just need to be smart .

With or without clothes:omg:

^^ Lol I guess with the clothes on , but you get more chances without.

Problem also is that most Filipino companies "discriminate" thus a lot of Filipinos cannot find jobs..

1.) Should be 21-25 y.o. only OR should be less than 30 y.o. :bash: (In Singapore, lots of old people working in McDonalds)

2.) Should be at least 5'6 :bash:

3.) Should submit NBI, Police, and Barangay Clearances (Isn't one more than enough????).. So meaning past offenders who are now reformed are automatically disqualified from having a job.. Even those with cases (like napagbintangan lang) are automatically disqualified from having a job;

4.) Should have pleasing personality

5.) Should be a graduate of BS Computer Science (even if the job involves typing documents in Microsoft Word or some simple programming that even an idiot can perform);

6.) Should be an accounting or business ad graduate (even if the job is only a teller in a bank or a cashier)

7.) Should be a college/university graduate (even if the job is just an assistant or a barista in a coffee shop)

....and a whole lot more...


and then there's the hidden requirement:

--> Should come from UP, Ateneo, LaSalle, etc.


...and here's a hilarious requirement:

- Submit a full body picture (found this ad in a hospital recruiting Nurses) :bash:


.....

That is deplorable. :ohno:

that is what happens when you have an oversupply of workers. they can be picky.

Why are we being surpassed by our ASEAN neighbors?

1.) Corruption: not only money but in abuse of power and all those typical corrupt doings.
2.) Filipino Crab Mentality: when one sees another progress in living, he will try to drag that person down to get even.
3.) Filipino Officials' Ignorance of the Law

some are the examples:

a. Our congressman bent our constitutional laws as seen in bypassing the senate for the constitutional convention to change the constitution thinking that the word "CONGRESS" in the constitution only pertains to the lower house (house of representatives=congressmen).

b. A lot of our officials who are in office may be lawyer but are really unknowing to the real word for word meaning of the laws. Most of them do practice law but are unable to fully internalize it.

c. The Present Memorandum of agreement between the MILF and GRP panel that seeks to expand ARMM. The GRP-MILF panels almost agreed to an agreement without even reading the first ARMM creation bill:


August 1, 1989
REPUBLIC ACT No. 6734

AN ACT PROVIDING FOR AN ORGANIC ACT FOR THE AUTONOMOUS REGION IN MUSLIM MINDANAO

ARTICLE VII
The Legislative Department

Section 2. The Regional Assembly may create, divide, merge, abolish or substantially alter boundaries of any municipality or barangay in accordance with the criteria laid down by existing law subject to approval by a majority of the votes cast in a plebiscite in the political units directly affected. It may also change the names of such local government units, public places and institutions.

-in this case, no plebiscite is made and the MOA was concealed from the local executives and legislatives of the provinces affected by the recent MOA.

4.) Vote selling/buying: we keep on saying for truth in the electoral system when most of us continue to sell his/her vote. We ask for change and change when the problem is ourselves.

5.) Lack of National Will for Public Officials

6.) Public Officials' Lack of Fear to the People : many public officials in the Philippines think they have all what it takes to do what they want.

7.) Presidents Who Do Not Respect Public Opinions, Polls, and other Critical Meters.

I really envy how the media and the public influence the gov't here in taiwan. If only we could learn from them i think it's not far that we can achieve a better gov't and that the rights of the citizens are always protected.

What do you think bro? yes or no?

Nope, has never learn from the past yet.

nope.

i can only say it has matured if corruption is eliminated or even just minimized.

Nope, particularly on how people deal with politics.

nope, still very immature as of now.

Funny how your statement just reminded me of another one of my experiences while vacationing in the Philippines. While being driven around inside my Aunt's car, I noticed that roads are bumpy even though they were cemented. I was riding inside a car, not an old car but rather a well maintained SUV and it was a noticeably bumpy ride even though the road was cemented. Just an experience and not meant to bash good ole Philippines.
^^^^^^Ive also driven and still driving on cemented roadways and asphalted roadways here in the United States so somehow I have a basis for comparison. Again not to bash the Philippines but sharing experiences. Funny how your statement just reminded me of some of my experiences driving around Los Angeles and the good ole I-405. I sometimes switch between a Tahoe or a Suburban. One thingy I noticed about the good ole I-405 was that it was just as bumpy as the South Luzon Expressway. Or that North Luzon Expressway leading to Angeles City. :lol: I frequently go to California, moderately to Illinois, Nevada, New York and Texas as well. :lol:

On my last trip we drove from San Diego (convoy with many pitstops) all the way thru L.A., the beautiful CA countryside and its many asparagus farms & all the way to San Jose and San Francisco. The roads were generally nice and smooth but I felt there was no huge disparity in bumpiness.

In the same way I felt there was this needless & pointless comparison between the world's strongest superpower and a developing Southeast Asian nation. It's kinda tacky. Sure, we got problems but the bumps are just as bumpy as any I had seen in North America, China and Europe. Ei, not meant to bash but merely sharing experiences :lol: :lol: Viva Filipinas!

Problem also is that most Filipino companies "discriminate" thus a lot of Filipinos cannot find jobs..

1.) Should be 21-25 y.o. only OR should be less than 30 y.o. :bash: (In Singapore, lots of old people working in McDonalds)

2.) Should be at least 5'6 :bash:

3.) Should submit NBI, Police, and Barangay Clearances (Isn't one more than enough????).. So meaning past offenders who are now reformed are automatically disqualified from having a job.. Even those with cases (like napagbintangan lang) are automatically disqualified from having a job;

4.) Should have pleasing personality

5.) Should be a graduate of BS Computer Science (even if the job involves typing documents in Microsoft Word or some simple programming that even an idiot can perform);

6.) Should be an accounting or business ad graduate (even if the job is only a teller in a bank or a cashier)

7.) Should be a college/university graduate (even if the job is just an assistant or a barista in a coffee shop)

....and a whole lot more...


and then there's the hidden requirement:

--> Should come from UP, Ateneo, LaSalle, etc.


...and here's a hilarious requirement:

- Submit a full body picture (found this ad in a hospital recruiting Nurses) :bash:




..... Wow, the list has grown since our time. Yup, Requirements 1, 2, 3 and 4 were also in vogue back then. Also #7. Oh yeah, the time immemorial hidden reqt - UP, Ateneo and LaSalle. Pity, pity, pity those who can't get into the big 3... :ohno:

^^ imho, it is very easy to get a job. mapili lang ang ibang pinoy. kung baga ma-arte.

kung hindi nakapagtapos ng elementarya, high-school or kahit college., edi tangapin ang pag-janitor or crew or tindero... ang daming trabaho, marami lang tamad..

^^that is true, madami sa atin ang pinili ay hindi magtapos ng pag-aaral....so dapat marunong silang tumanggap ng katotohanan na mahirap silang makapasook sa matitinong trabaho o high earning job. as what @leechtat said madami talagang trabaho, andyan ang pagja-janitor o crew sa isang food chain, mag-apply sa MMDA bilang hardinero o metro aid, kargador sa palengke, etc.

kung isasang-tabi ng pinoy ang kanilang pride (hindi po yan detergent), bababa dramatically ang bilang ng unemployment sa bansa. masyado nating minamaliit ang mga disenteng trabahong ito. ang payo ko naman sa mga nakaka-angat, hwag nating matahin ang mga ito o kaawaan, sa halip bigyan natin sila ng respeto at karangalan sapagkat ang mga ito ang pumupuno sa mga trabahong ayaw nating gawin. sila'y nagtitiis na magpakapawis sa ilalim ng araw habang ang mga mambabatas natin ay nagpapalamig at pakuya-kuyakoy sa kongreso at hindi man lang naisip na bigyan sila ng mga benepisyong nararapat sa kanila.

tayo pa nga dapat ang magturo at iniidolo sa Asia sapagkat una tayong tinuruan ng demokratikong pamamaraan ng pagkilala sa mga manggagawa.

kung hindi nakapagtapos ng elementarya, high-school or kahit college., edi tangapin ang pag-janitor or crew or tindero... ang daming trabaho, marami lang tamad.. Yes, this 2nd line (above) is correct and I can agree to it up to a certain point.

Howbeit this 1st line (below) is not really accurate and can be unfair. Moreover, there is a disconnect between this line and our posts (lord C & I). ^^ imho, it is very easy to get a job. mapili lang ang ibang pinoy. kung baga ma-arte. See, we were talking about college graduates & Philippine employers. IMHO, the factors enumerated by the other poster are true, I had also experienced half of it in my lifetime. :)

i guess we can learn from thailand, singapore and malaysia's tourism infrastructures. :cheers:

i guess we can learn from thailand, singapore and malaysia's tourism infrastructures. :cheers:

It took a military coup for Thailand to boost its tourism.

nakakatuwang isipin na ipinagmamalaki natin sa buong mundo ang nangyari sa ating bansa 22 taon na ang nakararaan. marahil alam nyo ang sinasabi kong ito. dalawampu't dalawa na mula ng magkaisa ang taong-bayan na tahakin ang EDSA para ipakita sa buong mundo na tayong mga Pinoy ay nanguna at tagumpay na ipinaglaban ang kalayaan laban sa rehimeng diktaturya...pero ano? patuloy at paulit-ulit lang nating binabalikan ang EDSA hindi para gunitain ang kaganapang ito kundi ipagpatuloy ang labang dapat ay tinapos na natin 22 taon na ang nakararaan.

sinasabing nasa atin ang Asia's first modern non-violent proponent of political reforms, forerunner of Gandhi and contemporary of Tagore and Sun Yat Sen. Ganyan ipunyagi ng mundo ang dakilang si Gat Jose Rizal... ngunit sa kabila nito naghihikahos tayong isa-ayos ang sistema ng ating bansa.

sa bansa naka-base ang International Rice Research Institute ngaunit sa kabila nito, tayo pa ang nangunguna sa pag-iimport ng bigas sa ating kalapit-bansa.

isa tayo sa nangungunang progresibong bansa sa Asia at kasama sa pagtatatag ng ASEAN...pero asan na tayo?

Ano nga ba ang pagkukulang natin?

nakakatuwang isipin na ipinagmamalaki natin sa buong mundo ang nangyari sa ating bansa 25 taon na ang nakararaan. marahil alam nyo ang sinasabi kong ito. dalawampu't lima na mula ng magkaisa ang taong-bayan na tahakin ang EDSA para ipakita sa buong mundo na tayong mga Pinoy ay nanguna at tagumpay na ipinaglaban ang kalayaan laban sa rehimeng diktaturya...pero ano? patuloy at paulit-ulit lang nating binabalikan ang EDSA hindi para gunitain ang kaganapang ito kundi ipagpatuloy ang labang dapat ay tinapos na natin 25 taon na ang nakararaan.

sinasabing nasa atin ang Asia's first modern non-violent proponent of political reforms, forerunner of Gandhi and contemporary of Tagore and Sun Yat Sen. Ganyan ipunyagi ng mundo ang dakilang si Gat Jose Rizal... ngunit sa kabila nitonaghihikahos tayong isa-ayos ang sistema ng ating bansa.

sa bansa naka-base ang International Rice Research Institute ngaunit sa kabila nito, tayo pa ang nangunguna sa pag-iimport ng bigas sa ating kalapit-bansa.

isa tayo sa nangungunang progresibong bansa sa Asia at kasama sa pagtatatag ng ASEAN...pero asan na tayo?

Ano nga ba ang pagkukulang natin?

nationalism

Asians are nationalists and patriots.

They love their nations very much.

In the Philippines, nationalism is a dreaded disease.

In NIC countries, nationalism is a badge of honor.

^^Weeeeeee umiral na naman ang pagka pessimistic, tama uunlad nga Pilipinas sayo pare...Salamat..:lol:

Pessimistic ng Pinoy pasok!

Para sakin hindi nationalism/patriotism ang kulang kundi ang disiplina:bash:!

^^Weeeeeee umiral na naman ang pagka pessimistic, tama uunlad nga Pilipinas sayo pare...Salamat..:lol:

Pessimistic ng Pinoy pasok!

Para sakin hindi nationalism/patriotism ang kulang kundi ang disiplina:bash:!

Weeeeee.... umiral na naman ang pagka-pessimistic ng isang poster.

Pasok!... ang mga taong gusto puro magaganda lang naririnig...

Tama ka, hindi uunlad ang pilipinas sa iyo pre pag ganyan mga reaksyon mo.

magbasa ka nga uli tol.

Kulang sa Pinoy, pagiging makabayan.


Yan disiplina mo wala yan. Panahon ni Marcos, disiplinado nga pinoy pero saan tayo umabot.

Alam mo disiplinado ka nga, binebenta mo naman kababayan at bansa mo, e di wala rin.:bash:

hindi masama ang pagiging positibo sa buhay...pero tulad ng kasabihan.."masama ang sobra"

ang sobrang positibo sa buhay ay nakakabulag

ang sobrang negatibo sa buhay naman ay nakakapilay

subukan nating umalis sa tanikalang kinalalagyan natin at buksan natin ang ating isipan para tingnan sa malayo ang "panorama" ng riyalidad/ katotohanan

kapag nagawa mo na ito, malalaman mo na nasa Quiapo ka na kung saan halos lahat ng sasakyang dumadaan ay patungo sa iba't-ibang dako ng syudad. ngayon mag-desisyon ka kung saang landas ka patungo:)

hindi masama ang pagiging positibo sa buhay...pero tulad ng kasabihan.."masama ang sobra"

ang sobrang positibo sa buhay ay nakakabulag

ang sobrang negatibo sa buhay naman ay nakakapilay

subukan nating umalis sa tanikalang kinalalagyan natin at buksan natin ang ating isipan para tingnan sa malayo ang "panorama" ng riyalidad/ katotohanan

kapag nagawa mo na ito, malalaman mo na nasa Quiapo ka na kung saan halos lahat ng sasakyang dumadaan ay patungo sa iba't-ibang dako ng syudad. ngayon mag-desisyon ka kung saan ka patungo:)


Agree.

Tingnan mo yung mali tapos planuhin mo kung paano maitatama.

Hindi puro dapat magaganda ang nakikita sa labas kasi baka yun pala bulok na ang nasa loob.

We should know our weakness in order to surmount it.

And I know the Pinoys can do it.

We are lacking in both discipline and nationalism. But in reality, our people are not much different from the other Asians around us. If we delved deep into their histories, we find their societies before were like ours.

Nationalism and discipline can be fired up, jumpstarted or galvanized by a charismatic leader or a well organized group. We need leaders that know how to take charge. It may be well worth noting that most of our Asian neighbours are hardly the chaotic democracies we know of... for example, we can learn from these leaders on how they galvanized their nations and whipped them up into Nationalism, thence on to discipline. These are my 4 personal favourites. The success of their respective countries speak for themselves. :)

Deng Xiaoping inherited a China in chaos and led market reforms to transform China into what it is today. The best of both socialism and the free market.
http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo332/mercato2008/Resources/225px-DengXiaoping.jpg
Ho Chi Minh fired up the imagination of the Vietnamese into winning against all odds. He galvanized his people into Nationalism. Due to his legacy, Vietnam though ravaged by war is fast overtaking the Philippines.
http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo332/mercato2008/Resources/225px-.jpg
Mahathir Mohammed was a firebrand and led his country to greater reforms w/c eventually transformed Malaysia into what it is today. Another one who galvanized Malaysians into Nationalism.
http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo332/mercato2008/Resources/225px-Mm_un.jpg
Lee Kuan Yew galvanized a young nation into what it is today. His book From Third World to First is a sterling summary of how they did it.
http://i389.photobucket.com/albums/oo332/mercato2008/Resources/225px--1.jpg

^^ and all of them were dictatotors....stupid marcos

^ true.. sometimes im inclined to believe that what we truly need is a big government, authoritarian like these 4, in order to get things done in our country. Asian countries are best run by strong leaders, with soft authoritarian approach, limiting the democratic principles to basic at least at its infancy stage. this country has not seen discipline since the US military bases and Marcos. we have not a government to respect and "fear" and trust after the walls fell down in Malacañang and Subic and Clark. we have learned to depend on a large power: the Spanish, Americans, American-puppets up til Marcos. And after we've become free from these regimes, can we truly say we are free in terms of economics? Last time we were an economic power (2nd to japan) we were under those regimes. (we lost it with a crazy Marcos) but these Asian countries prove it can be done with a benevolent fist (unlike Marcos) but still a fist! :D

but doing anything drastic may hurt, lets see first how far our American Style of Democracy can go.. hehe

....we're in the east, the most powerful nations that have come from this place have been authoritarian,..maybe it's time to stop following western ideologies and embrace our nature,..filipinos as a people require a strong hand, anything too soft and they'll find ways to wiggle out their own way....

I would still prefer a democratic system, no matter how flawed it is. We have seen how an authoritarian system could do in its worse. What if another dictator would end up like Marcos? We can only wish that there would be a benevolent dictator, but what if there's none? We can argue that ours is a very flawed democracy but despite its weaknesses we are still able to hold firm after 25 years. Our economy might not be the best but certainly it is not lagging anymore. Thanks to authoritarianism, we became the sick man of Asia.

Some argue that the western type of democracy is not suitable to our culture. How can we say so when we haven't even gotten close to what was a supposedly democratic government? We may have elections and free speech but that doesn't make our political system a democratic one.

There must be something wrong with our culture. Our semi-feudal, regionalistic and family-centered political culture must be hindering us from becoming a true democracy and therefore, forbidding us to enjoy the fruits of democracy. We proudly boast that we are a "democracy", but our culture doesn't reflect that. From the very basic unit of society, the Filipino family, to the very top, the state, everything/everyone is centered and are dependent on the head or "Pang-ULO" (Pangulo, Head, Apo) and their cohorts, the oligarchs. The people merely perpetuate that, in exchange for a few silver coins, just as Judas had betrayed the Messiah. That is not the true teaching of democracy.

In the case of the US too, their forefathers have reservations granting too much freedom to their citizens. Some even suggested giving unequal votes based on educational background, social class, or population of states, etc. They even have to fight a civil war because of slaves. After 200 years, they are now the only remaining superpower in the world. Despite the weaknesses of their leader, their institutions could still make up for what their leader could not do. That is the beauty of democracy. In an authoritarian system, everything collapses, as the leader fades.

^^ actually our democracy, is more absolute than that of the US, we rely on popular vote, the US has an electoral college, with a two party system, the ability of a person to run for higher office would depend a lot on the support of his party, especially the leaders ,superdelegates(party leaders) are a factor on both sides...