Edited by Jasonhouse

I split this discussion of Amendment 1, which is the proposal on the ballot Tuesday to change the way property taxes are collected in Florida, off from the Element thread.

Enjoy!
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I don't expect this economic recession to go away lightly. There are a number of problems that have finally set off alarm bells nationally (though the problems have been evident for a while). Though Florida has a knack for coming out of crisis before the rest of the country, it won't do that with something (ridiculous) like Amendment 1 passing. The economic situation, I don't see improving vastly enough to help encourage development until at least 2009 - depending on how leaders react to the problems and try to offer actual solutions instead of band aids.

I don't expect this economic recession to go away lightly. There are a number of problems that have finally set off alarm bells nationally (though the problems have been evident for a while). Though Florida has a knack for coming out of crisis before the rest of the country, it won't do that with something (ridiculous) like Amendment 1 passing. The economic situation, I don't see improving vastly enough to help encourage development until at least 2009 - depending on how leaders react to the problems and try to offer actual solutions instead of band aids.

I give Amendment 1 about ZERO chance of actually passing. I know a ton of people who are voting, and not a single on is voting for it.

i know of more people that are voting for amendment one than against it

I give Amendment 1 about ZERO chance of actually passing. I know a ton of people who are voting, and not a single on is voting for it.

Most people I know are wishy washy on it, knowing that it is going to screw up the budget for years. People are sick of half assed solutions which screw things up more than the original problem did.


ps... I'm totally against it. I want a real reform bill that stops rewarding certain parts of the population for no reason other than they have political clout, and punishes everyone else to make up for it... I can't believe the SOH thing was ever considered Constitutional in the first place.

I'm voting against it.

I'm voting against it: reform, not relief. I look at some of the Letters-to-the-editor in the Times and people say "This is a good first step" when talking about Amendment 1 -- the problem is, it's not a step. This is the legislature's solution to the problem. They won't put something else out there to further change the situation. Not in an election year.

They have barely done anything on Homeowners insurance besides the special session a year ago... They did nothing during the normal session on either situation... THe Legislature in FLA is stagnant as bad as Congress in Washington. Partisan and ideology rule more than results.

Element will be fine and completed. TWELVE may begin later than simply when Element is topped out / near completion... I don't think Novare will drop the ball on either property though.

I wanted them to wait until November so I could simply vote no for Amendment 1. I'm sick of the gov't. giving us sloopy solutions to our problems, do it right! :bash:

I say Element is topped off by Late June, Finsished by August, and we see TWELVE start by November.

i know of more people that are voting for amendment one than against it

Are they Republicans? One of my friends said its a Republican vs. Democrat type of thing. Most Republicans will vote yes while most Dems will vote no.

Republicans passed it and Democrats opposed it, but a bunch or Republicans are lining up against it now too. Trust me, vote no on Amendment 1. It's poor legislation. It'll provide very little relief, it'll exacerbate existing equity problems, it'll be a nightmare to administer by local officials, it won't substantially help the economy, and it will make the system significantly more difficult to understand. It's not a solution, it's a compromise. The better solution was thrown out by the judge and this is just the leftovers. A lot of people say that it will undefund local government, but they are still riding high from the steep increases over the past five or six years - they'll survive. Future revenues from ad valorem tax is capped at Florida per capita personal income so property taxes won't significantly increase in teh near future. They'll shift revenue sources to user fees and such. But Am 1 is not a good way to change the property tax system. Please vote no. I'm in the middle of it and know it well, please vote no. The constitution reform committee or the Legislature will come up with something better this spring if we turn this down now.

Republicans passed it and Democrats opposed it, but a bunch or Republicans are lining up against it now too. Trust me, vote no on Amendment 1. It's poor legislation. It'll provide very little relief, it'll exacerbate existing equity problems, it'll be a nightmare to administer by local officials, it won't substantially help the economy, and it will make the system significantly more difficult to understand. It's not a solution, it's a compromise. The better solution was thrown out by the judge and this is just the leftovers. A lot of people say that it will undefund local government, but they are still riding high from the steep increases over the past five or six years - they'll survive. Future revenues from ad valorem tax is capped at Florida per capita personal income so property taxes won't significantly increase in teh near future. They'll shift revenue sources to user fees and such. But Am 1 is not a good way to change the property tax system. Please vote no. I'm in the middle of it and know it well, please vote no. The constitution reform committee or the Legislature will come up with something better this spring if we turn this down now.
We hope!

I'm a Republican and I notice that this is just a cheap solution to make the people believe everything will be better again.

Are they Republicans? One of my friends said its a Republican vs. Democrat type of thing. Most Republicans will vote yes while most Dems will vote no.

I am a registered Republican as well. As a matter of fact, so is the rest of my family (except 2). In total I know 12 Repubs and 2 Dems that are all voting against it. However, I still say it will probobly pass, but I am a bit more sceptical that it can pass now than before...so I do hope it does not.

Steve

Polling has never shown it passing that I am aware of.

It needs 60% to pass... I just don't see that happening.

Yeah, support is there, but not enough.


Polling at 51%
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/jan/26/na-yes-on-1-lacks-60-threshold-poll-shows/


One thing to note though... I think the poll is flawed because it is polling Rep and Dem voters equally... There's no way that the respective turnouts will be equal on tuesday. Reps have delegates to vote for, the Dems don't.

I think it will be quite close, but will hopefully fail. Anything which retains SOH in any form is in my opinion a failure by elected officials to live up to their promise to reform the system, which is partly what got them into office in the first place.

Voting against it as well, with any luck it will not pass.

Voting against it as well, with any luck it will not pass.

Everyone:),
my friends,
I'm even on this issue,
and Not voting at all,
because I see the problem ,
Living here in MIAMI for the past 44 years, and watching taxes kill us down here, and Now moving to Spring Hill,
florida, retiring March 1, this year,after working for Miami-Dade County for over 31 years, and taking the Lump Sum investment plan and leaving My most loved City , It's the Taxes and Insurance that's making me move my wife and I to a more lower cost area, and That's North of Tampa, in Spring Hill,
it;s so much cheaper and better way of payingthe bills,
even the water bills are lower than MIAMI !!!, and seeing how low the property taxes are up here in the Tampa Area,
Is why many of the Latins in south florida is for this Amendment one.
the Latins do like to get out and vote,
believe me, I know,
I have a Cuban boss, a Cuban foreman ,and a Cuban partner,
and thye all vote, and with their growing relatives who are voters , they also get and vote ,
It's the Taxes here in Miami are out of control,
more than any where in the State.
I see Gas is cheaper by almost 15 cents here in the Tampa Area,
and many people in the Tampa Area are paying alot less than South florida,
Insurance rates are killing us here in Miami,
It's outragious !!!
Flood insurance, Car insurance,. health insurance.
No wonder there are more Chapter 11's and divorceses here in South Florida,
I just sold my place here in Broward, and I', outta here, soon,
But , I still Love MIAMI as my Home,
and I'll never stop talking about the City I grew up in, and Loved all my life :cheers:

I'd vote against it too.

Chuck does bring up good points though that need to be taken to thought. There are people of Florida that need a tax break. It seems like this particular amendment wasn't well thought out and it needs more time to be worked out correctly.

That said, should we give out tax breaks so people that can't really afford to live in a high-end neighborhood or expensive locations can now live in one? No. However, the big cities of the state like Tampa, Miami, Jax, Orlando etc. should all be accessibly livable in one part of the city or another, for people above the poverty line.

^That's the problem with this, it's going to help some people getting hurt by the inherent inequity of the SOH system by putting even more of the burden onto basically just new arrivals to FL. It's pretty messed up when you realize that our tax code will soon send the message to property owners, "don't come here because we'll tax you higher than anyone else just because you're new, and if you leave don't ever come back because we'll do it to you too"

Remember for those who can vote, vote no!

I don't think people understand that growth in the state has been slowed by a factor of 10, due to government mismanagement over the past 15 years or so. A complete lack of meaningful oversight of insurance, massive legislated property tax inequities, no plan for modernizing our state tax code without adversely impacting literally millions of lives. And not only does the government have no plan for transit, but actively destroyed a citizen initiated one. That's not a government for the people, that's a government unmistakably against the people.

This proposal will not fix any of it, so why should we tinker even more with a broken system? The answer is obvious, we shouldn't. Furthermore, the solution isn't to further kill an underfunded government by cutting its funding (taxes) even more, it is to give government what it needs to solve our collective problems and hold the people doing the leading accountable for their actions. Our problem isn't that government gets too much of our money, it's that our government has too little accountability.

^ I'm almost about ready to say they should just use an income tax and cut people's property taxes out almost entirely. Its more fair and doesn't harm newcomers to the state.

http://media.myfoxtampabay.com/youdecide/jan08/leaderiframe_property.html

With 50% of the vote in, Amedment 1 has 65% "yes" votes. Kinda a shocker.:ohno:

http://media.myfoxtampabay.com/youdecide/jan08/leaderiframe_property.html

With 50% of the vote in, Amedment 1 has 65% "yes" votes. Kinda a shocker.:ohno:

Florida Future:),
Our Tampa Bay master and friend,
maybe a shocker to the Tampa Bay area,
But for all of South Florida from Ft. Pierce to Key West it's a winner !!!
and the people of South Florida are just FED up with Taxes.:cheers:
It was a amendment that should have been passed `10 years ago,
It's Taxes !!!
we in South Florida are just Fed up with the over taxing,
Gas Taxes out of control,
Property taxes , out of Control
Water and sewer taxes , out of Control
Fire and Rescue Taxes , out of Control
Police Taxes, Where are the police when you really need them , and the 911 calls , high taxes for that and why so long to get those calls to get to your emergency,
That Denise Amber Lee could be still alive today,
If they responded to some 911 calls of seeing that mother of two screaming in that green camaro,
and no response to catch the car before the guy shot her through the head and buried her.
So sad,
half a penny tax for a County Hospital,
a half a penny tax for a Bus system that we the taxpayers of Miami-Dade County don't use !!
you show me a Taxpayer on a county bus !!!, and I'll Eat my words here and delete myself !!!

,

^Well good for South Florida then. :yes: It is what they state has appeared to chosen so far, I'm just personally concerned about it. :dunno:

61% precints in and "Yes" has 64% of the vote. Remeber it needs 60% to pass, so it still could drop down that much and not pass. Still a ways to go.

Looks as though amendment 1 is going to pass, unfortunately...

It's somewhat ironic that the realtors have supported this too. They have failed to see that this amendment will choke off the future waves of first-time homebuyers and also hurt relos. Very shortsighted in my opinion.

Even though I'm a homesteader, I actually wish now that the courts rule this unconstitutional and strike down the SOH program. That's our only hope now of killing this trojan horse.

Florida Future:),
Our Tampa Bay master and friend,
maybe a shocker to the Tampa Bay area,
But for all of South Florida from Ft. Pierce to Key West it's a winner !!!
and the people of South Florida are just FED up with Taxes.:cheers:
It was a amendment that should have been passed `10 years ago,
It's Taxes !!!
we in South Florida are just Fed up with the over taxing,
Gas Taxes out of control,
Property taxes , out of Control
Water and sewer taxes , out of Control
Fire and Rescue Taxes , out of Control
Police Taxes, Where are the police when you really need them , and the 911 calls , high taxes for that and why so long to get those calls to get to your emergency,
That Denise Amber Lee could be still alive today,
If they responded to some 911 calls of seeing that mother of two screaming in that green camaro,
and no response to catch the car before the guy shot her through the head and buried her.
So sad,
half a penny tax for a County Hospital,
a half a penny tax for a Bus system that we the taxpayers of Miami-Dade County don't use !!
you show me a Taxpayer on a county bus !!!, and I'll Eat my words here and delete myself !!!

,

Congrats, you might save a couple of hundred dollars.

Even though I'm a homesteader, I actually wish now that the courts rule this unconstitutional and strike down the SOH program. That's our only hope now of killing this trojan horse.
I have never understood how SOH could have been considered Constitutional in the first place.

I am extremely concerned and a disappointed that this passed. For years I knew I would have to move out of this metro and state to live in the kind of place I want to live in, but I held out hope that after Gov Bush and the crop of loonies we had in the state Legislature were gone, there might be some hope that something intelligent would emerge. In fact, the opposite has occurred. Florida has greatly hastened its rush to the bottom.

Sorry to the people who voted 'yes', but I wholeheartedly reject the 'Wal-Mart society' you're trying to force onto everyone else.

^ Totally agreed. Sure, paying taxes sucks, but you know - it funds things we all need. I wonder how many jobs will be lost across the state due to A1. How many lives? All so a few people could save a couple of hundred dollars. (I have a good feeling cities and counties will increase millage rates and we'll actually see that savings go away.) I'm very disappointed in Florida today...

I ended up voting "yes" on the amendment, even though my conscience told me to vote "no". :ohno:

I ended up voting "yes" on the amendment, even though my conscience told me to vote "no". :ohno:

Your not alone. I spoke to far too many coworkers and friends late yesterday whom had changed their minds at the last minute. The majority of those people switched because of fear and/or confusion.

I am speaking with people today about it, and many of them voted yes because "Crist thought it was a good idea." So much for educated voters. I think many people gave up and just picked yes.

I found out late last night it passed (I'd been out all day)... Every election Florida as a whole never ceases to amaze me with it's stupidity.

And to the fools who think this is "a good first step" -- It's no STEP! This is IT. This is the solution the legislature put forward! They'll move on to fondling the cable industry and telecos like usual this spring, they'll steal more money from education and put it in a fund for pet projects.

Congratulations! They pulled the same act with Homeowners insurance. "It's a good first step" - WRONG. ONLY step. They've proven too inept and too divided to actually solve anything.

whats with all the haters.

you honestly cant believe that 65 percent of the voting public are unable to make informed decisions.

The majority of those people switched because of fear and/or confusion.

The amendmaent did have too much packed into it, making it to confusing. I heard that several times from voters. When I read the amedment my head spun. :nuts:

Meanwhile Crist had his face everywhere on T.V. saying "it'll cut your taxes" and of course in the confusion people would take him up on that.

whats with all the haters.

you honestly cant believe that 65 percent of the voting public are unable to make informed decisions.

Yes, I can. Because they routinely screw themselves over in their own ineptitude. Check the comments. "I was scared" "people were confused"

Florida's public education systems is one of the worst in the country... That's always evident when it comes to the elections. I wonder if I should give Brian Blair and the HCBOCC a free pass because they keep getting elected by a majority in their districts? SURELY the voting public is putting a good person in office to serve

Republicans have a very myopic view of the world and the governer showed us that again. Tax cuts are not a panacea. They only help temporarily. The local municipalities will have to cut jobs and services, and at the end of the day the millage rates will probably go up and counties and municipalities will just increase fees to make up for some of the short fall. The sad thing is that the education system and the children will suffer probably the most, but hey it is worth it to save what probably amounts to 15-20 bucks a month.

Congratulations! They pulled the same act with Homeowners insurance. "It's a good first step" - WRONG. ONLY step. They've proven too inept and too divided to actually solve anything.

Another tax cut unlikely this year as Democrats balk at Rubio's plans
By DEANA POOLE
Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, January 30, 2008

Although Gov. Charlie Crist has promised that the successful property tax amendment Tuesday is just the first step, don't count on another property tax cut from the legislature this year.

Because that constitutional amendment is projected to cut $9.2 billion in property taxes during the next five years, Senate Minority Leader Steven Geller said he doesn't expect the state Senate to cut property taxes any further in 2008.

Geller, D-Hallandale Beach, pointed to the hits that local governments have been forced to take through a five-year, $15 billion property tax rollback mandate that the legislature passed last summer. And now the amendment will mean $7.7 billion less for counties, cities and special districts and $1.5 billion less for public school districts.

"We're not going to do more," Geller said.

That stance could stall the plans of state House Speaker Marco Rubio, who said Tuesday he planned to push for further property tax cuts regardless of whether the ballot measure passed.

"I think it's gone beyond just property taxes," Rubio said. "We have an affordability problem in Florida. I don't think this amendment ... is going to make Florida that much more affordable."

Rubio probably will push for a tax cut similar to one he has backed in the form of a citizens petition. The proposal would cut taxes by an estimated $8 billion by capping the total property taxes on any property at 1.35 percent of its taxable value.

But as of Tuesday morning, the group had collected only about 125,000 signatures, well short of the 611,000 signatures it needs by Friday to put the issue on the November general election ballot.

Rubio acknowledged that the proposal's success depends on whether he can find enough support in the Senate.

But one of his chief lieutenants, House Majority Leader Adam Hasner, R-Delray Beach, said voters' strong support for the amendment bodes well for future tax-cutting proposals.

"Today's vote is the first step, not the last, in providing the property tax relief that Florida's homeowners, businesses, families and seniors so desperately need," Hasner said. "It would be a serious mistake to think that the passage of Amendment One is the end, because the truth is this is just the first chapter of our effort to reform Florida's unfair and inequitable property tax system."

Meanwhile, state Rep. Carl Domino, the father of the idea to make Save Our Homes portable from one homestead to another, agreed with Geller that it would be tough to get property tax legislation passed in the Senate this year.
Domino, R-Jupiter, noted that the constitutional amendment required bipartisan support last year that might not be as strong this year. Because this is an election year, the minority-party Democrats may be less willing to cross party lines to pass Republican-sponsored legislation.

Crist's next move is unclear. Although the Republican governor repeatedly has referred to the amendment as a first step, he hasn't said what the next step would be - or whether he would be a part of it.

"We need to cut them more to be general and precise," he said in response to a question about what more he wanted done with property taxes.
Some are looking to the Florida Taxation and Budget Reform Commission for the next move.

The panel, which meets every 20 years to recommend changes to the state's tax system, can bypass the legislature and put constitutional amendments directly on the November ballot. Its chairman, former House Speaker Allan Bense, has said he would wait until after the primary to weigh in on proposals for cutting property taxes.

But there is little doubt that voter approval of the amendment is a victory for Crist, who is entering his second year in office.

He put himself at the center of the pro-amendment campaign. The plan that voters approved is the same one he advocated during his 2006 campaign to become governor.

It was shelved temporarily when legislators compromised on another proposed amendment that would have eliminated Save Our Homes and replaced it with a homestead exemption of as much as $195,000. But when a judge struck that amendment from the ballot, Crist pushed the legislature to replace it with this amendment in October. He has traveled the state ever since, urging voters to approve it.

His face dominated pro-amendment commercials, campaign literature and billboards, and he helped raise more than $4 million for the "Yes on 1" campaign.

"I feel a responsibility," Crist said recently. "This is something I think is very important to the state. I happen to be her governor. I wanted to do everything I could to help Florida and get this passed."

Supporters believed his popularity would translate into support for the amendment. But not everyone was so supportive.

Irv Slosberg, a House Democratic consultant and former state representative from Boca Raton, said he believes the tax amendment will hurt the governor. "I think he made a mistake," said Slosberg, who lost a bid for the state Senate in 2006.

"Property taxes aren't going to drop like a rock - maybe like a leaf," he said. "I don't think it will do much of anything except hurt some people."
Domino gave Crist credit for helping get the amendment passed.
"There's no question: He's provided genuine, real leadership," Domino said. "He's put himself on the line for this."

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/state/content/state/epaper/2008/01/30/a10a_ELEX_PROP_TAX_ANAL_0130.html?cxntlid=inform

I'm not quite certain that the yes/no votes had much to do with being republican or democrat. I'm a republican and I hated this amendment.

Rubio didn't like this amendment either - he just did a terrible job at backing the 1.35% proposed amendment.

For anyone wanting the 1.35% amendment on the ballot in November. Guess what? It's too late. Friday is the deadline to get 600,000+ signatures and they currently have just 125,000.

I can just hear the halls of our Florida Capitol echoing with laughter - targeted at the suckers the politicians duped yet again (us, the people...).

whats with all the haters.

you honestly cant believe that 65 percent of the voting public are unable to make informed decisions.

Yes I do believe that. George W Bush was elected then re-elected...

I really think its old people that made amendment one pass indefinetly. Seriously almost every senior I talked to about 1 they said "well hey its saving some money" even though they knew it was a couple hundred and that other taxes would go up. Real estate agencies also were going for this, I had a debate with my mom saying we would save money when in reality we have only had this house for a year.

It takes many years just to save a nice amount of money. I think it just led down to confusion and desperate times that this passed. But hey when I finish college and start looking for a house I guess Texas is looking pretty good right now. Since you know that all first time buyers and out of state buyers will be screwed over.

It's a shame. The voters chose a short-term gain (another $25k exemption and the ability to move) over long-term equity and fairness. The $25k TPP exemption and the 10% cap are meaningless. Now we're stuck with it and that's all we're going to see. The constitutional reform committee no longer has a mandate to fix the property tax system, so they'll let it drop. The Legislature feels like they have done their job and they'll do the same. So that's all we're going to see.

And ten years from now (or sooner), we're going to see another property tax revolt because of the lack of fairness. We're shifting our tax burden to first-time homeowners, non-residents and businesses and guess what - they're going to leave and never come back. The economics of this state are really going to suffer.

Top all that off with the fact that it will be a nightmare to administer, especially by underfunded local government officials, plus it'll be too complicated for most people to understand and we have a real mess. Congrats voters, I hope you enjoy what you think you got. I just wish the court throws out the whole mess like they did the first amendment.

Nice cheery outlook, isn't it?

^^ Right on point, Tallaman. I must admit, I wasn't at all surprised that Amendment 1 passed. And even though I didn't support it, and yes, I certainly see much trouble and frustration ahead, I just can't seem to muster up as much disappointment in those who voted "yay" this time.

My Reasoning:
I believe Amendment 1's passing serves as a reality check. Unfortunately, a far-greater number of homeowners are struggling just to remain Floridians than many may realize. So, if one combines the troubling foreclosure stats with the number of residents who have already been forced to move elsewhere, along with increased economic and financial distress, it really shouldn't come as a big surprise.

It appears to me that a majority of those who showed up at the polls felt compelled to support any "relief" (perceived or real) over nothing at all. As home equity/values, wages, and personal savings decline, the costs of goods and services (i.e., everything) continue to rise.

Truth is - financial pressures + no relief = give me what's behind curtain #1, Monty. Amendment 1 was the only prize offered behind the only curtain on the election stage.

The success of the measure's passing, I suspect, also reflects an utter lack of voter confidence in the Representatives gathered in Tallahassee. Fact is, many voters probably considered the consequences of it not passing and asked themselves, "what next?" Oh, that's right; responsible, representative leadership will come to pass and all will be well in the Kingdom! :drunk: NOT!

Bottom line:
Self-preservation will trump long-term equity and fairness concerns every day of the week.

just something to consider... :cheers:



Yes, I can. Because they routinely screw themselves over in their own ineptitude. Check the comments. "I was scared" "people were confused"...

Maybe we should tell 'em to call 1-800-ASK-GARY :banana:

I couldn't resist, John. :rofl:

City, County Get Out Scalpels As Amendment Forces Budget Cuts

By ELLEN GEDALIUS and MIKE SALINERO, The Tampa Tribune

Published: January 31, 2008

TAMPA - Government workers were bracing for layoffs Wednesday and local officials were looking at which public services to cut after voters overwhelmingly passed a property tax amendment that will slice city and county revenue by tens of millions of dollars.

The property tax amendment approved Tuesday is expected to have a $12 million impact on Tampa and $70 million on Hillsborough County. The city currently receives about $162 million annually in property taxes; the county, about $800 million.

Leaders at City Hall and the County Center said layoffs are inevitable because personnel costs are about 80 percent of their operating budgets.

County Administrator Pat Bean said layoffs will include top administrative staff.

"I don't want the end result to be that people that leave our organization are all at the lower end of the pay scale," Bean said. "I want to make sure no one is spared just because they're at a certain level."

Mayor Pam Iorio said the city "will go through a process of identifying vacancies and, unfortunately, full positions, making sure we do it in a way that's as fair as possible."

Even without the amendment's passage, she said, layoffs would have been likely because of a slowing economy and tax rate cuts mandated by the Legislature.

The challenge, Iorio said, is to figure out how to make cuts without residents noticing a significant change in the level and quality of city services.

Iorio said she will not raise fees to help offset deficits because she doesn't want to charge more for services during tough economic times.

The city parks department, with its $37 million budget, could be especially hard hit, said Santiago Corrada, neighborhood services administrator.

"I would imagine they're going to be looking at some reductions," Corrada said.

Iorio plans to meet with the city council Feb. 13 to discuss the budget. That same day, county commissioners are holding a budget session.

County Commissioner Al Higginbotham, an Amendment 1 supporter, said residents sent a clear message to government to make do with less.

"Is it going to be unpleasant as a decision-maker? Yes, but I was put in this position to make those decisions."

Commissioner Kevin White said he's worried programs for the poor will be cut.

"Even though this provides minimal tax relief to our citizens, the greater damage is going to be in cutbacks in services and potential job losses for our county employees," White said.

58% Approval In County

Despite opposition from government worker unions, Amendment 1 enjoyed broad support in Florida, passing with 64 percent of the vote. In Hillsborough, about 58 percent of voters supported the constitutional amendment.

Sixty percent was required for passage.

The amendment doubles the homestead exemption from $25,000 to $50,000, although the savings will be less because school taxes are exempted. Homeowners also will be allowed to transfer their Save Our Homes tax benefits to a new homestead. Businesses can exempt up to $25,000 of tangible property, and will be protected by a 10 percent cap on annual valuations.

The Tampa Police Department doesn't expect to escape the budget-cutting process. The department is looking at ways to be more efficient, possible reorganizations and what positions could be eliminated, spokeswoman Laura McElroy said. The department does not plan to lay off patrol officers or dispatchers.

"Our priority is to maintain the same level of service," McElroy said. "If you call 911, you should not know there have been cuts."

During last year's cuts, the department had to trim $3 million from its roughly $120 million budget. At least seven people lost their jobs, but no street-level police officers were eliminated.

Iorio said she doesn't plan to cut from the fire department; she wants to hire more firefighters to staff a new station in New Tampa.

The county probably will not be able to shield the public safety sector from cuts. Law enforcement and fire and rescue services account for about $480 million of the $1 billion in annual operating costs. One effect might be more delays in plans for jail expansion.

County Budget Director Eric Johnson said it's a mistake for tax reform advocates to suggest that $70 million in reductions can be made without touching public safety. He and other county officials objected to statements made last year by Gov. Charlie Crist accusing local governments of using scare tactics in suggesting police and fire departments would be cut if property taxes were reduced. "I guess nobody gave him a civics lesson on how much of local government spending is on public safety," Johnson said.

Schools Under Pressure

Budget-cutting started last year, when the Legislature passed a plan that forced local governments to cut their tax rates. The county eliminated 442 county jobs, including 97 full-time positions.

The city implemented a hiring freeze, which remains in effect. Only critical positions are being filled. Iorio also laid off about 120 employees and made service cuts, mainly affecting the parks department.

Though schools are not supposed to be affected by the tax cuts, Hillsborough's school system has been looking at improvements to efficiency for more than a year, Superintendent MaryEllen Elia said.

She noted that schools face possible funding cuts next year because of a stagnating state economy. "But we're going to wait and see what we need to do to make it through and make sure this has the least effect possible on our classrooms," Elia said.

Reporter Ellen Gedalius can be reached at (813) 259-7679. Reporter Mike Salinero can be reached at (813) 259-8303.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/jan/31/me-city-county-get-out-scalpels-as-amendment-force/

^ Totally agreed. Sure, paying taxes sucks, but you know - it funds things we all need. I wonder how many jobs will be lost across the state due to A1. How many lives? All so a few people could save a couple of hundred dollars. (I have a good feeling cities and counties will increase millage rates and we'll actually see that savings go away.) I'm very disappointed in Florida today...

Ultimately, that's all this will inevitably be... A political shell game... The more powerful state politicians can pad their own resumes with irresponsible, deficit creating 'tax cuts', and so what if their dangerous, destructive solution royally screws up local govt budgets and the economy? The stateys aren't the ones who will have to campaign for reelection after having to raise local taxes to stave off municipal insolvency.

The entire thing is a scam, and ill informed voters fell for it hook, line and sinker.

I posted the following message about 6 months ago in a different thread in response to all those opposed to amendment 1. However, I got no response. I am interested to hear the views of amendment 1 opponents in regards to the newspaper article written in August 2006. Thanks!



[TAMPAGUY75 -- Written 6 months ago]
For the last few weeks, I have read several people commenting on how horrible things are going to become if property taxes are slashed next year. I've also read reports of how they are going to have to cut services like public transportation, library hours, etc. Furthermore, we have city workers who have actually lost their jobs due to this impending doom.

That said... I came across this article from last year that I think is worthy of a read. (I think the real issue is how horribly the city and county have managed the windfall of surplus cash over the last few years due to increased property values.)

Revenue: growing, growing, gone

By AARON SHAROCKMAN
Published August 19, 2006
St. Petersburg Times

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/08/19/Ta...ing__gro.shtml

Tampa property tax receipts
2001-2002: $97.7-million
2006-2007: $167.7-million
+72%

St. Petersburg property tax receipts
2001-2002: $64.4-million
2006-2007: $103.4-million
+61%

Clearwater property tax receipts
2001-2002: $30-million
2006-2007: $55.5-million
+85%

Property insurance rates doubling. Gas prices topping $3 a gallon. Trash bills, water bills, electric bills - all going up.

Whatever it is, it seems to cost more these days.

Don't expect your local government to help.

Cities, counties and school boards across Tampa Bay are using your money to grow at record rates, sucking in huge increases in property tax revenues and in return offering only marginal cuts to the tax rate, if any.

It has become a shrewd political maneuver in this era of robust property growth. Politicians can tout new parks or libraries and cut your tax rate. But the bottom line is, you're paying more. Much more.

Since 2001, the size of local government across the area has nearly doubled. Five years ago, the city of Tampa took in $97.7-million in property tax revenues. This year, it expects to collect $167.7-million, an increase of almost 72 percent. The city of Clearwater's property tax revenues skyrocketed 85 percent in the same time.

With all that extra money, what did you get?

"People live on a budget. And when the budget gets tight, people have to tighten their belt," said Hillsborough County Commissioner Brian Blair, who has pushed his government for substantial spending cuts. "Government should be no different. But for some reason, it plays by different rules."
Local governments have plenty of explanations for the rising budgets, and they mirror residents' woes: Property insurance costs have skyrocketed. Pension funds are thinning. Gas prices are up. So is the cost of health insurance.

But unlike most residents across the Tampa Bay area who have to do more with less, governments are able to take more in taxes to make up the difference. The city of St. Petersburg, for instance, will cut its tax rate by at least 5 percent next year, but will still collect $10-million more in property tax revenues.

Why? Because the value of property keeps going up.

Hillsborough County has seen similarly dramatic gains in property tax revenues despite cutting the tax rate in each of the past five years. This year, commissioners have tentatively approved their largest rate reduction in at least two decades.

A booming population in Pasco County demands more fire, police and other services, said budget director Mike Nurrenbrock, explaining his county's increase in tax revenues. The Sheriff's Office alone wants to add 98 jobs to keep pace, Nurrenbrock said.

And Pinellas County government plans to grow 12 percent next year. By comparison, the state budget grew about 14 percent. Millions of dollars are being pushed into social services programs, including help for the homeless and the creation of below market housing.

The county also is pushing a modest tax-rate cut, about 3 percent.
County Commission chairman Ken Welch said that those who call for more dramatic tax reductions in these flush times raise valid concerns. But where should government cut?

The money that houses and feeds the homeless? The money that pays for the transportation needs of workers or helps them afford rent?

"The lines really blur when you are on the ground, so to speak, in the midst of battle," Welch said. "Philosophy goes out the window."
From a broader perspective, however, local government spending appears wildly out of control.

City property tax revenues have doubled in the last six years, according to a state analysis, more than twice the rate of personal income growth in the state. School board revenue collections have increased 70 percent since 2000 (the state mandates much of that share), while county governments have collected 80 percent more, according to the study.
Local governments have an "insatiable appetite for money," said David Daniel, vice president of governmental affairs for the Florida Chamber of Commerce. "And at the end of the day, it's our wallets that are getting squeezed."

Clearwater Mayor Frank Hibbard is hearing the complaints. But whenever the city contemplates reducing some service, he also hears people argue against the cut.

"We need to get to a point where people applaud and re-elect people because they don't do something to them," said Hibbard. "They don't add some new service. They don't add some new facility."

"Unfortunately, it seems like government is always growing," said Safety Harbor's interim Mayor Andy Steingold. Steingold is paying $5,000 more in property taxes himself this year. "I feel it, too."

Most governments wait until summer to lay the bottom line on citizens. And even then, most don't see the televised public meeting or understand the obtuse newspaper story.

Many area residents found the grim reality in the mail this week, in the form of county Truth in Millage notices.

Property taxes on the Oldsmar condominium Vanita Hall rents out have tripled in four years. Her Truth in Millage notice was just the latest bad news for Hall, who is struggling to keep up with the risings costs of her four rental properties in the Tampa Bay area.

Hall will have to pay $1,800 in property taxes on that one condo alone, she said. She paid $600 in 2002.

"What are they doing that's different?" asked Hall. "I don't see anything for that money. Water's more expensive. Electric is more expensive. What gives?"

Bert Swain, the co-owner of Rollin' Oats whole foods market and cafe in St. Petersburg, is facing a double whammy familiar to small business owners who don't get the 3 percent tax bill cap that most homeowners get.

Swain, 55, already has seen his insurance rates triple in the last year. This week he received his Truth in Millage notice - he will have to pay $12,422 next year, $2,400 more than in 2006.

"I think every one wants to know, 'Where are my taxes going?' " Swain said.

In Hillsborough County, the government started budget talks this year with a staggering $149-million surplus, said Blair, a county commissioner.
But before commissioners could even consider a tax rate decrease, $112-million was already spoken for, sucked into the county operation.

The county did cut its tax rate, but Blair said it missed an opportunity for real relief. Using the entire surplus, the county could have cut its overall tax rate by almost a third.

"What bothers me is, we have people waiting to the very last day to pay their utility bills because they can't afford it," Blair said. "And we have all this money - that's theirs - and we think we know how to spend it better than they do."

Times staff writers Melanie Ave, David DeCamp, Will Van Sant and Bill Varian contributed to this report. Aaron Sharockman can be reached at (727) 892-2273 or asharockman@sptimes.com.

My disagreement with amendement 1 was based on it supporting and actually enhancing a protected class that shouldn't exist. SOH was intended to protect seniors from being taxed out of their final home (big note there - it was for their final homes, not their springpad homes until they bought a larger and more expensive home). What we have today is a large group of homesteaders enjoying benefits that were never meant to be directed at them. Now we hear people complaining that they feel trapped because they want to buy a new home, but don't want or are not able to pay the taxes that any new homeowner would be faced with.

I agree 100% that our local, state, and federal governments must cut back. We've been on a drunk spending spree and the effects will be devasting unless we cut back.

I do have a problem with the state telling local governments how to cut back, when they can't even demonstrate that they themselves can cut back. However, the local governments got themselves into this mess by not listening to their constituents. How many years have people been wanting tax relief - all to fall on deaf ears in our local governments (goes for all gov't, for that matter).

It's ironic to me that Pinellas voted for amendment 1 - which will take money away from schools, and then voted for the extra sales tax to go to schools... What's up with that logic?

Q, I understand why it passed, I just don't think voters understand the long-term implications. Am 1 received greatest support in high-value areas like SE Florida from people that stand the most to gain in the short run. They want to buy another house, but they don't want to pay more taxes. Now they get it all (DudeinTampa's protected class), and the non-homesteaders get stuck with the bill. Tampaguys article is an excellent example of how poorly locals managed their money (windfall), and that's not to say that state people did any better (But state budgets did not increase nearly as fast). In spite of their crying, locals will cut pet projects and not education or emergency services. But over the long haul, services will erode, business and renters will bear the brunt of shouldering the tax burden homesteaded residents are passing along thanks to SOH and increased exemptions. This will drive prices up. The usual new residents, first-time homebuyers and small businesses will be less inclined to move in knowing they'll bear the full burden. Maybe Florida is overpopulated already and this is a good thing, I don't know, but we will feel the pinch in the economy.

Plus all of the porting caps, increased exemptions, 10% caps, $25k TPP exemptions, etc. make the whole thing much more difficult to understand and administer. I read an article in the Sarasota Hearld this morning in which it quoted a commisioner in Manatee saying that if the Manatee tax base loses any more value their revenue will decline. He's a commissioner and he does not even understand that the maximum millage rate caps imposed by HB1B last year apply to ad valorem revenue, not to the rates themselves. They need only to adjust the millage rates levied on their tax base to produce last year's revenue plus per capita personal income growth. That's the main reason counties took the money over the last five years - it's getting too hard to understand. Am 1 makes it much worse, and much less fair. BTW, Is the poor guy at Rollin' Oats still in business?

I posted the following message about 6 months ago in a different thread in response to all those opposed to amendment 1. However, I got no response. I am interested to hear the views of amendment 1 opponents in regards to the newspaper article written in August 2006. Thanks!

I think the same thing I thought then... The article was kinda silly, and is a bit intellectually dishonest if you ask me... It opens by pointing out how much inflation has raised the cost of everything over the past several years, and later points out that much of the rise in cost for local govts was due to hiring 'life service' workers like police and fire rescue just to maintain the status quo while growing... Yet throughout, it has this whole, "the government's employees are screwing you over and laughing all the way to the bank" vibe to it. I think that the article's message is baseless, giving its own evidence that much, if not all of the increase is consumed due to the obvious... Inflation, and maintaining the status quo as we grow...