Was out and about today, didnt see many bananans though when I passed the depot only 5 were there meaning 7 were out somewhere. Only one station on Bury line seems to have had the yellow branding though at another the previous corporate colour stripes had been covered over with black tape on signs. Ticket machines had been installed at every bury line station bar Bury itself (only saw a couple of Pid posts though) there seemed to be a techinician team working their way along the bury line from Victoria doing the final connections on the machines and removing the covers as they finished though they were only switched on at Victoria. Victoria had its old machines turned off with a sign stick on saying no longer in use. Piccadilly was similar with the ones recessed into the wall but you wonder at Victoria and Picc are they going to replace the old ones with new machines or leave holes in the wall/platform where the old ones used to be.

Service was normal though there were 4 out of service trams parked at Bury, 3 on one platform and one on the other (each driver passing the staff halt was being warned). Also my first time actually seeing a ticket inspection with the stop towards bury after the halt 5 staff guarding the tram doors while it waited at the platform while one worked his way down checking tickets. Seemed pretty inefficent. (offtopic as well Pic mainline had signs up saying ticket inspection at all times from 1st March and there were ticket inspectors everywhere).

Coming back from Bury couple of old ladies was talking too saying it was their first time on a tram despite living here all their lives, they were asking about stops and where to get off so I was answering their questions, they also noticed a new tram we passed and said 'look a new tram, and its yellow! that will brighten up the city', they also complained that Pic gardens used to be all gardens when they were younger too and the hideous wall, though they said it being a noise break made sense and it wouldnt be there if it wasnt needed.

Also on way to Manchester was sat with two retired drivers from Wigan/Atherton discussing how the route used to be in their day, no Salford Central and no way to get to piccadilly from Salford.

Ticket machines had been installed at every bury line station bar Bury itself

Theres 7 machines installed on the Platform

http://i39.tinypic.com/3463si1.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/20kq61e.jpg

3003 was taken out of service at timperley around 8 this evening, looks like they're still having door issues.

3003 was taken out of service at timperley around 8 this evening, looks like they're still having door issues.

I was on 3002 the other day and one of the doors opened on the wrong side. It quickly shut but it wasn't half unnerving.

Work has now started on several of the ECC line stops for the installation of the new ticket machines, concrete bases are being laid as we speak.

Moving Manchester GMPTE Part 1 video. Metrolink, map, etc, MIPIM video.

VDt5oX-WJ84

Don't know if this is known yet? Those that follow the plans will know.

Reply Retweet Moving Manchester: All Metrolink expansion complete by 2016. New city centre route will run via Albert Square, Cross St and Exchange Square.
about 3 hours ago via web

From pepsi_dave http://www.bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=164784&start=1530

Routes been known for months, first time ive seen a date attached to the Smartcard though. But the bolton trials been done and GMITA has released the funds to procure a system so a couple of years isnt unreasonable.

One thing I feel compelled to say about that MIPIM video is that the speaker is totally uninspiring. Surely MIPIM is all about marketing and selling the city? Despite the generally positive content, that talk was monotone and dull.

One thing I feel compelled to say about that MIPIM video is that the speaker is totally uninspiring. Surely MIPIM is all about marketing and selling the city? Despite the generally positive content, that talk was monotone and dull.

If you want a laugh, turn on the youtube closed captions (CC) I tried it on the GMPTE part 1 video and it bears no relation to what he says at all and is highly amusing for its random garbage.

I'm surprised by David Leather's speech. When I worked for GMPTE, his speeches to staff were confident and upbeat. This sounded like he'd had enough.

Ticket machines had been installed at every bury line station bar Bury itself (only saw a couple of Pid posts though) there seemed to be a techinician team working their way along the bury line from Victoria doing the final connections on the machines and removing the covers as they finished though they were only switched on at Victoria. Victoria had its old machines turned off with a sign stick on saying no longer in use. Piccadilly was similar with the ones recessed into the wall but you wonder at Victoria and Picc are they going to replace the old ones with new machines or leave holes in the wall/platform where the old ones used to be.


Big hairy son claims no new ticket machines at Bowker Vale.
Seems to be singled out. (The station not him).

Hi dad

Sorry couldnt resist that one.

Now on my jaunt to Robin Hood City today, I paid at Heaton Park on the old machines,

Hi dad
Why you...!

I didnt notice it last week because its usually a boring document with occasional insight into Metrolink fleet status, but the performance indicators have had a nice change.

Go to page 7
http://www.gmita.gov.uk/download/2987/item_07_quarterly_progress_against_performance_indicators

Host of new stats including Spads, RTA's, accidents, etc. The only thing it doesnt tell you is fleet availability targets like it used to.

Confidential's Freedom of Information Act request to Metrolink answered

Jonathan Schofield gets an answer - at last - about how much Stagecoach are paid by Greater Manchester Passenger Transport Executive

http://www.manchesterconfidential.co.uk/News/General/Confidentials-Freedom-of-Information-Act-request-to-Metrolink-answered_10630.asp

You can feel his dissapointment at £18.1m being a reasonable figure and less than the ticketing revenue. Dont tell him that they are spending over 100m a year on capital improvements though :)

June 2008.Changed a bit since then:)

Looking at track bed towards Chorlton from Manchester Road Bridge

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/5579/img8414fm0.jpg[/QUOTE]

Usual MEN negative reporting I see. In fact I see that a goodly number of the comments associated with the article criticised the negative angle. Unusual for MEN correspondents.

Is there anything the MEN does like?

Council meetings....nope thats all I can think of.

In the not so distant past, local journalists used to attend the full council meetings, planning and if need be other newsworthy committees.

Then get ratted in the council bar, where the real stories could be ferretted out from clr greyhair and so on.

In the very old days, the MEN used to place the minutes of MCC alongside the House of Commons, so rumour is!!

Is there anything the MEN does like?

Stories about 'celebrity' non-entities.

I had to laugh to myself yesterday when I was stood at Piccadilly Metrolink Station, and a middle-aged/retired couple, who sounded like they were from down south, walked in through the door near the taxi rank, stood around for a while with their suitcases, whilst commenting on how small they thought the 'train' station was in comparison to the buildings size from outside. Ha, they were stood there for a good while before they asked the guard what train to get, who proceeded to direct them to the actual station concourse. I have no idea where they were going, but I presume they weren't going to Eccles, Alty, or Bury.

No docs yet.

OUTLINE APPLICATION for the construction of Burton Road Metrolink Station

http://www.publicaccess.manchester.gov.uk/publicaccess/tdc/DcApplication/application_detailview.aspx?caseno=KZF2AWBC6K000&searchtype=WEEKLY

New Metrolink Service Documents Available

http://www.gmita.gov.uk/downloads/file/3006/item_09_metrolink_service_performance

http://www.gmita.gov.uk/download/3007/item_10_additional_metrolink_performance_measures

http://www.gmita.gov.uk/download/3008/item_11_deployment_of_metrolink_travel_safe_officers

I read these so apologies beat me to the post, but highlights:
Metrolink performance update, 8 yellow fruits in service

Metrolink Service failures
o A tram failure at Bury on the 14th December disrupted services for 45 minutes in and out of Bury. Arrangements were made for passengers to use Metrolink tickets on First Bus Services 135 and 98 between Bury, Radcliffe and Whitefield.

o On the 14th December, services on the Eccles line were suspended for 40 minutes when a tram experienced an electrical fault.

o A tram failed at Ladywell with a traction fault causing service suspension on the Eccles line for 55 minutes on the evening of the 19th December.

o Failure of points at Bury due to adverse weather conditions disrupted service for 1 hour on the morning of the 22nd December.

o The failure of a tram between Bury and Radcliffe on the 23rd December and the subsequent failure of the rescue vehicle due to the adverse weather conditions disrupted services for 55 minutes blocking all routes in and out of Bury station. Arrangements were made for passengers to use Metrolink tickets on First Bus services and all trams were turned at Whitefield until the failed units were moved at 08:28 hours.

o Services on the Eccles line were suspended for over 11 hours on the 5th January (from start of service until 17:29 in the evening). This was a result of compacted snow in the points and also on the on-street section of the Eccles line.

o A tram failed at the start of service on January 21st with a major air leak. Eccles line services were disrupted for almost 2 hours with trams being turned at Salford Quays.

o A tram was withdrawn from service on January 22nd with a traction brake controller fault after the driver reportedly was unable to drive over 2mph between Ladywell and Weaste. The vehicle was returned to Queens Road after being out of service for 1 hour 20 minutes. This caused delays to the service on the Eccles line with trams operating between Piccadilly and Weaste during this time.

o On January 26th during the evening peak, the driver of a double unit inadvertently activated the steps which were then stuck under the platform at St. Peter’s Square. The service operated between Bury and Piccadilly with Eccles and Altrincham services turning at GMEX for approximately 50 minutes.

o On January 29th a tram failed with a compressor fault whilst returning from Eccles, suspending Eccles line services. After an hour the service resumed and the vehicle was coupled to another and returned to the depot.



Two vehicles were out of service during Periods 9 and 10.

• 2001 remains long term out of service. Recommendations as to how the issues with the tram can be resolved have been submitted by an independent specialist funded by the Operator. The matter has now been escalated within the Operator’s organisation to ensure that the required attention is given to implementing the recommendations.

• 1009 has entered the special modification programme and is expected to be returned to service by mid March.

Additionally 1001 and 1003 have been fitted with TOS, two trams a week will be fitted with completion expected in May.

2000 extra standard fares were issued in Jan 26th-Feb after return of ticket inspectors following City Centre bedding down

Report on travel safe officers (ticket inspectors/stewards)
http://www.gmita.gov.uk/download/3008/item_11_deployment_of_metrolink_travel_safe_officers

70% of breakdowns were on the Eccles line. Coincidence? :hm:

Though it is good to see the :banana: :banana: :banana: 's and the inspectors making a difference.

3008 was smooth as, well, anything today!

Question:

Are GMPTE/Metrolink prepared for the signalling strike affecting services between Timperley and Altrincham, that part of the route being under Network Rail control?

Its under Network Rail wire supports, but I dont believe it uses any of their signals, the lines are completley seperate despite running next to each other, just that the Network rail controls works access.

AFAIK the signals and crossing gates are under heavy rail control, by Deansgate Lane signalbox. Signal identification plates on Metrolink lines refer to control under 'DJ xx'. I can't imagine the gates being left down all day (for numerous days) being popular with local residents either.

I can't imagine the gates being left down all day (for numerous days) being popular with local residents either.

It would make Navigation Road station next to useless anyway, as you'd have to jump the barriers to access it from the Timperley side. If it's going to be a problem at least they can turn back at Timperley Station.

• 2001 remains long term out of service. Recommendations as to how the issues with the tram can be resolved have been submitted by an independent specialist funded by the Operator. The matter has now been escalated within the Operator’s organisation to ensure that the required attention is given to implementing the recommendations.

• 1009 has entered the special modification programme and is expected to be returned to service by mid March.

Additionally 1001 and 1003 have been fitted with TOS, two trams a week will be fitted with completion expected in May.

2000 extra standard fares were issued in Jan 26th-Feb after return of ticket inspectors following City Centre bedding down

Report on travel safe officers (ticket inspectors/stewards)
http://www.gmita.gov.uk/download/3008/item_11_deployment_of_metrolink_travel_safe_officers

I hope they manage to fix 2001. I thought they would end up scrapping it.

Does the "special modification programme" allow trams to be used on the Eccles lines too?

I've noticed quite a few of the trams have been fitted with TOS now.

Its under Network Rail wire supports, but I dont believe it uses any of their signals, the lines are completley seperate despite running next to each other, just that the Network rail controls works access.

The route from Timperley Siding into Altrincham is controlled by Network Rail's Deansgate Junction Signal Box and so will be affected by any industrial action. If Network Rail use supervisors or managers at key signalling centres it may be that they man the box but I wouldn't bet on it.

Yes the special modification programme is the first mid life refurbishment programme which allows them to run on Eccles, its almost finished now after taking 4 or 5 years and then they can start on the second programme of mechanical/electrical upgrades, and the interior refurb and exterior repaint.

GMPTE advises passengers to plan ahead for strike day travel

Passengers in Greater Manchester are advised to expect disruption to public transport during the planned industrial action by railway workers next week.

The RMT union is planning to strike for four days immediately after the Easter break, from Tuesday 6 to Friday 9 April.

This would have a significant impact on rail travel, and demand for buses and trams is likely to be much higher than usual if the strike goes ahead.

The strike would also lead to Metrolink services between Altrincham and Timperley being suspended for the duration of the action, as this section of the track is operated and controlled by Network Rail.

If the strike goes ahead, replacement bus services will run at the same frequency as the trams between Altrincham, Navigation Road and Timperley. A normal tram service will operate from Timperley to Manchester city centre and on all other Metrolink lines.

Paul Lucas, Operational Service Planning Manager for GMPTE, said: "Rail passengers planning to travel between 6 and 9 April should be aware of possible changes to timetables because a significant number of trains are likely to be cancelled, diverted or delayed, with no service operating at all on some rail lines.

"We would advise all passengers to take these possible disruptions into account when planning journeys, to allow for extra time for travel and to check services before setting off by calling National Rail Enquiries on 08457 48 49 50 or visiting www.nationalrail.co.uk.

"We are confident that rail operators will do their best to manage any disruption as effectively as possible, but a significant impact on services will be inevitable.

"Passengers should, however, expect a high level of demand on all forms of public transport, especially at peak times, during the industrial action."

Rail passengers are advised to check www.nationalrail.co.uk for the latest service information. Detailed information will be available from early afternoon on Thursday 1 April.

Metrolink passengers can check www.metrolink.co.uk for details of the replacement bus services that will be available if the strike action goes ahead. Staff will also be on hand at the affected stops to support passengers.

Bus users can plan journeys at www.gmpte.com or by calling Traveline on 0871 200 22 33 (Calls from landlines cost 10p per minute. Mobile and landline networks may charge additional tariff costs.) Lines are open from 7am to 8pm Monday to Friday and 8am to 8pm at weekends.

PR

The strike would also lead to Metrolink services between Altrincham and Timperley being suspended for the duration of the action

Looking forward to the MEN's "More Metrolink chaos as travellers face misery" story tomorrow.

Have noticed 1005 and 1015 joined for a while now and in service at odd times. It looks like 1005 has no mirrors or cameras fitted at the end where joins 1015 so that explains it !!

just left work and at the top of the hill was 3013:banana:

I can't imagine the gates being left down all day (for numerous days) being popular with local residents either.

Damn right..... I live near Deansgate Crossing (not in one of those horrendous new flats might I add!!). Its an absolute pain in the arse when they decide that "maintainance" will be carried out on the barrier and the road is closed - without warning, all day!!!

On another note - is there a policy of running the :banana: 3xxx :banana: as reliefs. I've noticed on numerous occasions that if a :banana: goes towards Alty between Deansgate and Navi, then a 1/2xxx will follow on without a manchester bound tram in between. Is this planned or just a coincidence of timing!

Metrolink are doing an easter egg hunt. Between Now and 10pm Monday 6 stops have posters of eggs in them and if you can find them all you win a prize.

www.metrolinkpromotions.com

http://www.metrolinkpromotions.co.uk/images/Metrolink_Egg.jpg
No, not her :(

Sod the girl (not literally), I want a giant chocolate egg.

Silver lady 11 (I'm calling them that even if nobody else does...:lol: then the drivers can call them bitches if they don't like driving them..:lol: here's a banana to make the others feel better:banana:) was out today. Tell you what... they don't like going round corners the way they screech and shudder and that includes the windows vibrating. Why are they being driven sooooooo slooooooowwwww?

Preference time

A. Riding

Banana over Silver Lady

B. Eating

The woman over the chocolate.

Preference time

A. Riding

Banana over Silver Lady

B. Eating

The woman over the chocolate.

you cheeky boy

Preference time

A. Riding

Banana over Silver Lady

B. Eating

The woman over the chocolate.


1. I don't ride bananas I eat them

2. I'd rather eat the egg, It won't nag when it gets older

B. Eating

The woman over the chocolate.

Even if she's a silver lady?

I am not David Soul neither.

http://i41.tinypic.com/2m7u2qs.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/beuipw.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/2508bnl.jpg

3,800 complaints as Metrolink battled the Big Freeze

Dean Kirby

April 07, 2010

Tram passengers made more than 3,800 complaints to Metrolink as it battled to cope with the worst winter weather in 30 years.

More than half of the 2,288 phone calls and letters sent to the network between December 14 and January 10 were about disruption caused by the icy weather.

Another 1,520 complaints were made between January 11 and February 7 – mostly about a spate of problems on the Eccles line.

A report prepared for transport chiefs says: “The main causes of disruptions to the service were adverse weather conditions.”

It says 10 major incidents caused delays of more than 30 minutes between December and February.

Services were suspended on the Eccles line for more than 11 hours on January 5 because of snow on the points.

A tram also failed on the same line on January 21 because of an 'air leak', which disrupted services for two hours.

Another tram was withdrawn from service the following day after the driver reported it had developed a fault while travelling being able to drive at more than 2mph between Ladywell and Weaste.

The report for Greater Manchester Integrated Transport Authority's Rail and Metrolink Networks Committee says services were also delayed on January 26.

It happened after a tram driver 'inadvertently activated' the steps, which were then stuck under the platform at St Peter's Square.

A tram also failed with a compressor fault after returning from Eccles on January 29, suspending services on the line for an hour.

Problems with ticket machines on the Metrolink system prompted nearly a third of complaints made between January 11 and February 7.

Those at Navigation Road and Radcliffe drew the most complaints and engineers are now trying to find out why.

More than half of complaints received about lifts and escalators were about the lifts at the Timperley Metrolink stop, which are to be refurbished.

The report comes a month after transport chiefs were told that the extreme weather had caused a number of trams to break down.

Salt from the roads formed a slush in some trams' engines. Others broke down because their compressors failed, which led to problems with suspension systems, brakes and doors.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1203196_3800_complaints_as_metrolink_battled_the_big_freeze

New Ticket Machines in Operation!
I don't know about elsewhere but the new TVM's at Radcliffe and Whitefield are are up and running for passengers to use (well, one was temporarily out of service).
Are these the first stations outside the Central Zone to have the new machines up and running?

As far as I have seen (haven't been to Bury itself in ages), along the Bury Line, the new TVMs are in place at Besses, Prestwich, Heaton Park, Crumpsall and Woodlands Road. How are the Eccles and Altrincham Lines coming along?

New Ticket Machines in Operation!
I don't know about elsewhere but the new TVM's at Radcliffe and Whitefield are are up and running for passengers to use (well, one was temporarily out of service).
Are these the first stations outside the Central Zone to have the new machines up and running?

As far as I have seen (haven't been to Bury itself in ages), along the Bury Line, the new TVMs are in place at Besses, Prestwich, Heaton Park, Crumpsall and Woodlands Road. How are the Eccles and Altrincham Lines coming along?

Central stops have had the old machines removed now. Eccles line has the foundations built but no machines installed yet. Cornbrook has the machines so I assume they have been installed down the Altrincham line ready to switch on. I imagine once these 2 lines are on work will start to install on the Eccles line then the Bury and Altrincham lines old machines will be removed before Eccles are turned on then the old ones removed on that line a few weeks later.

I didnt see any at Sale so I dont think all the Altrincham line stops have them yet.

Some do and some don't, Navigation Road has one, but foundations for 2 more, Timperley has some and I remember seeing a few other when I was up there last weekend. None switched on that I saw though.

Thre is a wierd thing at Timperley though, they put foundations in for the ticket machines on the Manchester bound platform when they refurbished it last year, but then built one of the shelters in front of these, so they've put some in a but futher up the platform, almost as though they changed thier mind about the location or size of the shelters (or just planned it badly).

Maybe changed their mind from one to two shelters?

I didnt see any at Sale so I dont think all the Altrincham line stops have them yet.

Sale has them, but not switched on yet.

3 on M/cr bound

2 on Alti bound

Installed at Stretford, but not up and running yet. Don't think they're installed at Old Trafford yet.

Sale has them, but not switched on yet.

3 on M/cr bound

2 on Alti bound

Really? none on wed just the old ones in the ticket office.

Really? none on wed just the old ones in the ticket office.

You must of been walking around with your eyes closed as they have been there for about a month now.

The only platform furniture was a single wall mounted bin, no benches or anything else.

Quickly captured a new tram leaving GMEX today - didn't have time to set up correctly so just placed on the platform - but you get the idea!

Metrolink 3003 tram leaving GMEX (http://www.vimeo.com/10854886)

(note wait for it to be converted - should be in half an hour :) )

10/04/2010 - Sunday 18th April - Engineering Work
Due to engineering work the Eccles line will be closed on Sunday 18th April.

Passengers requiring to travel on the Eccles line should board the tram as normal and transfer to the replacement bus service which will operate between Trafford Bar and Eccles.

Metrolink would like to apologise for any inconvenience this will cause to your jour


Own goal there by GMPTE. Same as everywhere else these days, try not to speak in plain language !! No Eccles service, so board the tram as usual or am I reading it wrong..lol

10/04/2010 - Sunday 18th April - Engineering Work
Due to engineering work the Eccles line will be closed on Sunday 18th April.

Passengers requiring to travel on the Eccles line should board the tram as normal and transfer to the replacement bus service which will operate between Trafford Bar and Eccles.

Metrolink would like to apologise for any inconvenience this will cause to your jour


Own goal there by GMPTE. Same as everywhere else these days, try not to speak in plain language !! No Eccles service, so board the tram as usual or am I reading it wrong..lol

Yeah, it should read "Board an Altrincham bound tram to Trafford Bar and transfer to a replacement bus service which will operate between Trafford Bar and Eccles."

Some pics I found on Flickr of the work carried out in the City Centre in 1990 for the arrival of Metrolink.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31072252@N06/4521276168/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31072252@N06/4521267926/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31072252@N06/4520619251/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31072252@N06/4520599469/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31072252@N06/4521247244/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31072252@N06/4521223122/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31072252@N06/4521209946/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31072252@N06/4521182352/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31072252@N06/4521155412/

Passengers wishing to travel on the line to Eccles should board the Altrincham tram and transfer to the replacement bus service which will operate between Trafford Bar and Eccles, calling at all stops.

There will also be a replacement bus service for passengers travelling from Eccles towards Manchester, calling at all Metrolink stops along the route up to Trafford Bar, where passengers can continue their journey on the Altrincham line.

Normal tram services will be restored on the Eccles line on Monday morning. The Bury and Altrincham lines will be unaffected.

http://www.gmpte.com/2009_news.cfm?news_id=9002855?submenuheader=3

http://i41.tinypic.com/2m7u2qs.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/beuipw.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/2508bnl.jpg

Quite strange to see the coupler covers being taken off on one side of the tram. Could happen on the eccles line soon!

http://i43.tinypic.com/2q37yfb.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/2cwlg6s.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/2sbpun4.jpg

Has anyone noticed but the edge of the platforms at SPS, is already staring to look tatty the paint and finish is peeling away....

They just used white gloss and then after the freezing temperatures, it cracked and started peeling. Some of it actually started to peel less than two weeks after it was applied. I guess they need to use something more substantial and weather resistant.

I had a thought today. The original proposals (1984) included lines to Glossop and Marple. A year later 3 similar looking stations (Flowery Field, Godley, Ryder Brow) opened on these lines. I was thinking if the new stations were linked to the proposals, can anyone help me ou?

They just used white gloss and then after the freezing temperatures, it cracked and started peeling. Some of it actually started to peel less than two weeks after it was applied. I guess they need to use something more substantial and weather resistant.

So its going to cost them double now as they will have to be completely repainted..:ohno:

You should see what the freezing weather did to my garden furniture, its been completley stripped of the weather proof paint back to the wood.

Do we know if 3012/3013 are entering service soon, or have we seen all there is to see of the M5000's until the upcoming updates?

Do we know if 3012/3013 are entering service soon, or have we seen all there is to see of the M5000's until the upcoming updates?

No reason not to expect 3012/13 to enter service soon. But I would not expect more deliveries until the new depot opens in july (I think). I could be wrong tho.

No reason not to expect 3012/13 to enter service soon. But I would not expect more deliveries until the new depot opens in july (I think). I could be wrong tho.

I believe 3012 hasn't arrived yet (unless in arrived this weekend) there was some faults with it so they sent 3013 instead! I could be wrong though¬!

I believe 3012 hasn't arrived yet (unless in arrived this weekend) there was some faults with it so they sent 3013 instead! I could be wrong though¬!

As I understand it 3013 cannot be used until the full line of sight TOS system or at least a complete route including access to a depot is commissioned. It has none of the original signalling equipment fitted and so is not compatible with Bury to Altrincham in the current state. The Phase 3A batch of 28 were always going to be TOS only. 3012 is the first to be delivered fitted with a complete set of both signalling systems equipment. 3001 to 3011 were wired for TOS and fitted with Phase 1 kit but did not have the TOS kit fitted before delivery to allow prompt delivery. They will be retrofitted along with the 1*** and 2*** series over the next few weeks (or months) to allow them to be used with both signalling systems during the changeover. I was told 3012 was expected this weekend. I would imagine once the Eccles Line and City Centre are converted and there is access to Old Trafford Depot the first few of the Phase 3A trams might see some use, but could be some time off.

Does anybody know why it is that when I'm getting a train, I can specify my destination as a Metrolink zone (which works out far cheaper than separate train and Metro tickets), but I can't buy a ticket to a rail zone from a Metrolink machine? I know that this used to be possible. Is it just a difference of the new machines, or had the facility been removed from the old machines before they were decomissioned?

I will certainly be writing to Mr Purdy to encourage its re-introduction. A single from Walkden to Victoria costs £2.90, a single from Victoria to Cornbrook costs £2.00 - £4.90 in total. If I buy a ticket to Metrolink zone H from Walkden station, it costs just £3.40 - that's a saving of £1.50 - over 30%....

Does anybody know why it is that when I'm getting a train, I can specify my destination as a Metrolink zone (which works out far cheaper than separate train and Metro tickets), but I can't buy a ticket to a rail zone from a Metrolink machine? I know that this used to be possible. Is it just a difference of the new machines, or had the facility been removed from the old machines before they were decomissioned?

I will certainly be writing to Mr Purdy to encourage its re-introduction. A single from Walkden to Victoria costs £2.90, a single from Victoria to Cornbrook costs £2.00 - £4.90 in total. If I buy a ticket to Metrolink zone H from Walkden station, it costs just £3.40 - that's a saving of £1.50 - over 30%....

I may have to investigate this further before I write to Metrolink. A section of their website says that multi-modal tickets are not available in the city zone, and I was examining one of the machines at Victoria. I'll have a look at Cornbrook ticket machines later.......

Old style TVMs still sell them, I've gripped plenty of white tickets, but I can't recall checking any new style ones, although have seen them inside peoples' wallets/purses.

Fares finder on the new Metrolink website fails to mention them either. Big oversight if they have forgotten!

Yeah youve never been able to buy rail tickets from city centre tvm's. Not tried using a new machine further out as until recently their hasnt been any running.

Yeah youve never been able to buy rail tickets from city centre tvm's. Not tried using a new machine further out as until recently their hasnt been any running.

As you say Metrolink TVMs never sold Tram/Rail tickets in the City, I guess we will have to wait for the suburban machines to be commissioned to check out their availability elsewhere.

Metrolink website information up the spout again. I have just checked the website for service update and found that they tell us a 6minute service is operating between Bury and Altrincham all via Piccadilly. I decided to check with Customer Services where a very helpfull lady (Julie?) told me that the direct trams were running and my next direct Bury service from Altrincham was just approaching from Navigation Road. If she knows this why can't the Control Room get it right yet again? I note that she has obviously asked them to update the site correctly now. This sort of misinformation happens too often and despite what Messrs Purdy and Morris keep telling us it doesn't seem to improve. Perhaps when Control have very little 'controlling' to do after TOS is implemented things will improve.

Stagecoach plan to cut Metrolink emissions

April 20, 2010

Drivers, managers and other staff on Manchester’s Metrolink are to be trained to reduce the amount of carbon pollution generated by the tram system.

Metrolink is operated by transport giant Stagecoach , which has announced a new sustainability strategy that will also see its train, bus and coach drivers trained in ‘eco-driving’ techniques in a bid to cut carbon output by 150,000 tonnes a year by 2014.

The company is investing a total of £11m in the scheme.

It is targeting an overall reduction of three per cent in carbon emissions from its fleet of vehicles.

Group chief executive Brian Souter said: “We have made significant progress in recent years in reducing our carbon footprint, but we believe more needs to be done.

“That is why we have developed a five-year investment programme with stretching targets for improvement.”

The Scottish company, which employs 30,000 people, will put its drivers through courses that teach them how they can use less fuel by monitoring the way they accelerate, brake and change gear.

The scheme to encourage energy efficient driving techniques will also save cash through increased fuel efficiencies and Stagecoach estimates its investment will pay for itself within two years.

Drivers on Sheffield’s Supertram system will also be given the same training as part of the initiative.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/business/s/1222616_stagecoach_plan_to_cut_metrolink_emissions

At the same time GMPTE are purchasing 65 Diesel-electric hybrids for the Metroshuttle and some additional yellow bus services. Unlike before where the metroshuttle was tendred out to an operator to provide its own vehicles and operation now the contract will be to operate GMPTEs fleet of green vehicles.

At the same time GMPTE are purchasing 65 Diesel-electric hybrids for the Metroshuttle and some additional yellow bus services. Unlike before where the metroshuttle was tendred out to an operator to provide its own vehicles and operation now the contract will be to operate GMPTEs fleet of green vehicles.

I read about this in December. Will the buses therefore not be first bus branded, assuming that GMPTE develop their own branding like the tram?

I dont know, The trams arent Stagecoach branded unlike in Sheffield where they actually own the franchise.

I read about this in December. Will the buses therefore not be first bus branded, assuming that GMPTE develop their own branding like the tram?

Can anyone point me to the details of this? I'm interested to see how Metroshuttle will progress and what sort of buses will be gained. If they had any sense, they'd brand them in a similar way to Metrolink (perhaps with a different colour, but still sporting the go-faster dots and livery) and interlink the two onto a single map. That would be excellent! (Can any clever soul perhaps whip-up a map to show this?)

just a quick idea of how the bus could look in 'local' livery...

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab80/iheartthenew/BUS.jpg

like I said, 'quick' ;)

That looks like something from South Park! lol ..but great first attempt.

Nice one! I like the idea of having a common branding across the different services. Perhaps it will come in next April if the new Authority gets the go-ahead.

In the meantime, I hope that Metrolink will now get rid of the turquoise as quickly as possible. Although badly faded in many situations, it is still a more dominant colour than the more delicate yellow/silver, and the two together make a terrible clash. Presentation is everything, and for a uniform to work it has to be uniform!! :banana::banana::banana:

Nice one! I like the idea of having a common branding across the different services. Perhaps it will come in next April if the new Authority gets the go-ahead.

In the meantime, I hope that Metrolink will now get rid of the turquoise as quickly as possible. Although badly faded in many situations, it is still a more dominant colour than the more delicate yellow/silver, and the two together make a terrible clash. Presentation is everything, and for a uniform to work it has to be uniform!! :banana::banana::banana:

I agree. Turquoise is a ghastly colour.

The stations on the Eccles line look odd with the new machines and old decor.

Any ideas when they will install the new signage and paint everything yellow on the Eccles line?

I agree with Johnny, It will be good to see the branding expanded onto other transport, integration and all that :nuts:

Just been having a massive clear out and I found this

Bit of a blast from the past. Cut out from the Guardian Tuesday January 14th 1992

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/Metro92.jpg

Stop in its own length at 50mph, no wonder that journalist went flying during a demonstration :P

I might be in the minority here but I don't think I'd want the metrolink brand on the buses. It would feel like when GMPTE were proposing the same colour scheme as GM Buses for the trams, orange and white. Although we're aiming for integrated transport here, I think the different modes should have their own identity. Its too much to have the same colour scheme on different vehicles. Maybe if they used the symbol, but changed the design?

I might be in the minority here but I don't think I'd want the metrolink brand on the buses. It would feel like when GMPTE were proposing the same colour scheme as GM Buses for the trams, orange and white. Although we're aiming for integrated transport here, I think the different modes should have their own identity. Its too much to have the same colour scheme on different vehicles. Maybe if they used the symbol, but changed the design?


I totally agree..I prefer the trams to be a separate entity, and some how they would them lose their individuality as a transport system in their own right if all transport in GM adopted something similar.

Metrolink
Trams
Yellow and silver

Metrobus
Buses
Orange and silver

Metrosprint
BRT
red and silver

Metrorail
Tram-trains
Old gold and silver

Metrocab
Taxis
Pink and silver

Metroboard
Skate board
Lime and silver

Metrospin
Mobility wheelchair
Silver and silver

http://www.treehugger.com/los-angeles-brt-orange-line346.jpg

Metrolink
Trams
Yellow and silver

Metrobus
Buses
Orange and silver

Metrosprint
BRT
red and silver

Metrorail
Tram-trains
Old gold and silver

Metrocab
Taxis
Pink and silver

Metroboard
Skate board
Lime and silver

Metrospin
Mobility wheelchair
Silver and silver

Motability Vehicles
Brown and Silver

Motability Vehicles
Brown and Silver

Crikey!! What if you happen to be colour blind?!?

edit: that was more in response to Heaton's post :)

Heaton, you've missed out the colour for the Monorail!!!

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/images/stories/large/2008/12/17/sub79735851.jpg

Indeed the corporate Transport network of our great conurbation is missing the following.

MetroUno
monorail
Tealand silver

Metropush
cycles
Yellow, black and silver


Metrojacktars
speed ferries down the ship canal
Blue and silver

Metrodibnah
tourist barges along the Cheshire ring canals
Victorian purple and silver


I kid you not but the local bus company in prestwich has seemingly bought a bus I am sure was once in the Transport musueum in Cheetham Hill. Some orange and white thingy with Southern on the side!?!/

Now thats a joke!

They aren't really a transport system in their own right though, they are one of three modes of public transport in the area, and it wouldn't do any harm for them to be considered in the wider context rather than as 'competition' for buses.

This isn't the same as the livery debate though, I grant you. Not too sure what I make of the current livery tbh. It's interesting to look at some Dutch examples though, where all modes are run by the same operator in the same or at least similar liveries, which are quite nice (RET/GVB with the trams, buses and metro in Rotterdam and Amsterdam respectively, and HTM in Den Haag, although what will happen under the newish tendering regimes who knows).

The Metroshuttles will need all the sponsor names all over them as they pay for them.

I'm not normally one to complain about Metrolink, as I understand the limitations they are under. However the service on United matchdays is completely unacceptable.

I've been stood at Stretford for more than half an hour waiting for a tram towards town, and it has been absolutely impossible for anyone to get on any of the four trams that have so far arrived (there has been 6 in the other direction in that time)

I understand there is a need to get people from town to OT, but there is an obvious need in the other direction too, as the situation has been like this for a while. I don't understand why nothing seems to be done to address the situation.

I'm not normally one to complain about Metrolink, as I understand the limitations they are under. However the service on United matchdays is completely unacceptable.

I've been stood at Stretford for more than half an hour waiting for a tram towards town, and it has been absolutely impossible for anyone to get on any of the four trams that have so far arrived (there has been 6 in the other direction in that time)

I understand there is a need to get people from town to OT, but there is an obvious need in the other direction too, as the situation has been like this for a while. I don't understand why nothing seems to be done to address the situation.

In case you missed it, it was called TIF and funding the Trafford Park route. Which would have no doubt freed up (matchday) capacity and overcrowding (or at least eased it) on the Altrincham route. People voted no. Yet, people still complain when they can't get on a tram?


They aren't really a transport system in their own right though, they are one of three modes of public transport in the area, and it wouldn't do any harm for them to be considered in the wider context rather than as 'competition' for buses.

This isn't the same as the livery debate though, I grant you. Not too sure what I make of the current livery tbh. It's interesting to look at some Dutch examples though, where all modes are run by the same operator in the same or at least similar liveries, which are quite nice (RET/GVB with the trams, buses and metro in Rotterdam and Amsterdam respectively, and HTM in Den Haag, although what will happen under the newish tendering regimes who knows).

Exactly, all public transport in the area should wear the same livery, otherwise people cannot see it as a 'system' merely 'competitors' against each other. Its like with false branding of the heavy rail system. People still call it 'British Rail'.

In case you missed it, it was called TIF and funding the Trafford Park route. Which would have no doubt freed up (matchday) capacity and overcrowding (or at least eased it) on the Altrincham route. People voted no. Yet, people still complain when they can't get on a tram?

I voted 'yes', and helped out with the 'yes' campaign, but I very much appreciate your patronising tone nonetheless.

Does not getting TIF explain why seemingly all the 3000s, which would provide significant extra capacity, were parked up at Queens Road yesterday?

I'm fully aware of the issues caused by the rejection of TIF, but I don't buy this argument that all the problems can be blamed on that, or that genuine criticisms of the operation can be dismissed because of the outcome of that vote.

In case you missed it, it was called TIF and funding the Trafford Park route. Which would have no doubt freed up (matchday) capacity and overcrowding (or at least eased it) on the Altrincham route. People voted no. Yet, people still complain when they can't get on a tram?




Exactly, all public transport in the area should wear the same livery, otherwise people cannot see it as a 'system' merely 'competitors' against each other. Its like with false branding of the heavy rail system. People still call it 'British Rail'.

Still dont like the idea of it...:ohno:

Theirs still the issue of the transformer capacity on the Bury line and at the end of the Altri line which restrict the nuber of units till their upgraded, works approved but dont know when its scheduled. In a couple of months there will be a cornbrook-Media city service too as a fair number walk from eccles line it will mean half that line has more capacity for normal eccles line users.

Exactly, all public transport in the area should wear the same livery, otherwise people cannot see it as a 'system' merely 'competitors' against each other. Its like with false branding of the heavy rail system. People still call it 'British Rail'.

I know it was a bit tongue-in-cheek but I actually quite like heatonparkincakes's idea regarding using a similar livery with a different main colour. Its makes public transport appear standardised (which it hopefully will be if smart ticketing ever comes about) but also keeps different modes distinctive and would make Metrolink's appear a bit less of a Merseyrail rip-off....

Why is it that the 3xxx seem to have been taken out of service? My kitchen window looks out onto the Altrincham line and I've not seen one since Friday!!!

Why is it that the 3xxx seem to have been taken out of service? My kitchen window looks out onto the Altrincham line and I've not seen one since Friday!!!

Quite true! Not a single :banana: seems to be running today!??
What is going on?

Maybe the delivery of new suspension components arrived?

TVM News. The Yellow'uns are now in service at all Bury Line stations (not sure about Besses). Bowker Vale looks a mess as they've been built into the wall, in the same place as the old ones, so you can see half eroded breeze blocks on either side, the peeling roof of the old station office. I hope they sort this out when the station gets its yellow transformation.

I hate to moan, because the machines have obvious advantages (payment methods, season tickets, multi-lingual option, card tickets etc) but the 'sticky coin' stress hasn't gone away. Meaning half of the time you still have to scratch your coins on the machine to get it to work. Does anyone understand the science behind this!?

Plus they take ages compared to the turquoise babies which just needed two pushes. It's OK at stations which have more machines (eg Radcliffe, which has five), but at stations with just two, the queues for tickets in the morning are much longer, meaning people miss the first tram that arrives!

Never heard of this scratching thing, sometimes on vending machines I have to give the coins extra inertia before their recognised.

Theres 3 tests run by machines on the coins to check their value and whether their genuine. Firstly they check their diameter (either through sorting with different diameter holes or optically), then their magnetic response and on more expensive machines the coins weight too.

Pound coin pieces take a severe scratching at Navigation Road before the TVMs accept them. Also, considering Navigation Road's machines are the most complained about on the system, why are they the last on the Alty line to be replaced. Surely common sense would have suggest replacing them first!!!!

Why is it that the 3xxx seem to have been taken out of service? My kitchen window looks out onto the Altrincham line and I've not seen one since Friday!!!

It's political, the GMPTE should have paid Stagecoach a bonus for getting them out in service early but they have now backtracked so Stagecoach have seen their arse and withdrawn the Bananas until the PTE pay up.
Thursday there was only 4 out on Directs (so they didn't go past the PTE Offices) Friday only 3 out on Directs, Saturday and Today None out! unsure if we will see any next week! :bash:

It's political, the GMPTE should have paid Stagecoach a bonus for getting them out in service early but they have now backtracked so Stagecoach have seen their arse and withdrawn the Bananas until the PTE pay up.
Thursday there was only 4 out on Directs (so they didn't go past the PTE Offices) Friday only 3 out on Directs, Saturday and Today None out! unsure if we will see any next week! :bash:

FFS! They better get it sorted.

No double trams in the morning is sh!te!

Also, considering Navigation Road's machines are the most complained about on the system, why are they the last on the Alty line to be replaced

The ones at Stretford are in operation. Only problem being that if there is any sunshine, it makes it very difficult to actually see the screen!

It's political, the GMPTE should have paid Stagecoach a bonus for getting them out in service early but they have now backtracked so Stagecoach have seen their arse and withdrawn the Bananas until the PTE pay up.
Thursday there was only 4 out on Directs (so they didn't go past the PTE Offices) Friday only 3 out on Directs, Saturday and Today None out! unsure if we will see any next week! :bash:

I can't quite believe what i'm reading there. Ridiculous.

It's political, the GMPTE should have paid Stagecoach a bonus for getting them out in service early but they have now backtracked so Stagecoach have seen their arse and withdrawn the Bananas until the PTE pay up.
Thursday there was only 4 out on Directs (so they didn't go past the PTE Offices) Friday only 3 out on Directs, Saturday and Today None out! unsure if we will see any next week! :bash:

I don't undertsand that. Surely any bonus would be due to Bombardier for prompt delivery and commissioning. Stagecoach would only get involved when they are handed over fully commissioned. Playing politics with a public service is unacceptable. Stagecoach should still have enough tram to run three doubles if they are maintaining them right, even Serco managed that!
Whatever the reason it seems strange that all of them have disappeared unless some fleet wide fault has been found.
As for running extras for football I guess Stagecoach won't run any extras unless GMPTE request them and pay for them to be operated, remember it costs extra and it's GMPTE that pocket the additional revenue.

It's political, the GMPTE should have paid Stagecoach a bonus for getting them out in service early but they have now backtracked so Stagecoach have seen their arse and withdrawn the Bananas until the PTE pay up.
Thursday there was only 4 out on Directs (so they didn't go past the PTE Offices) Friday only 3 out on Directs, Saturday and Today None out! unsure if we will see any next week! :bash:

surely if it is the case that Stagecoach are due extra money for early operation of trams it must only apply to the 4 "Media City" trams which have been delivered but technically are not required until the MC line opens. (Ditto any Phase 3a trams as well)

Contractually, the 8 original trams to increase capacity are surely supposed to be in service by now? Perhaps why some :banana:s were out on directs on Thurday/Friday and none at the weekdend (no peak doubles contracted on weekend)

It must be that the extra trams for media city are not being used now until line opens or GMPTE cough up.

Oh the benefits of the private sector.......

surely if it is the case that Stagecoach are due extra money for early operation of trams it must only apply to the 4 "Media City" trams which have been delivered but technically are not required until the MC line opens. (Ditto any Phase 3a trams as well)

Contractually, the 8 original trams to increase capacity are surely supposed to be in service by now? Perhaps why some :banana:s were out on directs on Thurday/Friday and none at the weekdend (no peak doubles contracted on weekend)

It must be that the extra trams for media city are not being used now until line opens or GMPTE cough up.

Oh the benefits of the private sector.......

Looks like the political problem is solved, if it ever existed! At least 2 M5000s have been seen at Altrincham Interchange this morning already. I would agree with Vince that the 8 should be running whatever.

Looks like the political problem is solved, if it ever existed! At least 2 M5000s have been seen at Altrincham Interchange this morning already. I would agree with Vince that the 8 should be running whatever.

Yeah, one departed Sale towards Manchester this morning as I was coming down the steps.

Then about 4 minutes later another one arrived which I got on. It's the first time I've been on an empty-ish banana!

The destination read "Victoria" though. Not sure why?

The destination read "Victoria" though. Not sure why?

Presumably it was going back to the Depot. They display Victoria as that is the final stop on the way to QR.

Well I didn't see a single Banana passing through Vic today. So I went and had a look down at the depot for myself.

I could see 9 yellow trams so a couple must be out. A few photos...

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/P1000397.jpg

Not a single original tram in sight

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/P1000396.jpg

The illusive 3013.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/P1000398.jpg

3001 is still broken :(

Just saw a banana just outside cornbrook on its way to bury.

Oh yeah as a side note. I couldn't see tram 2001 anywhere outside the depot today. So perhaps they might finally be fixing it. Hoorah!

Does anyone fancy knocking up an imagined original tram in the new banana livery?

Does anyone fancy knocking up an imagined original tram in the new banana livery?

Why? Images have been posted a few times of what they will look like. The design company mocked some up.

Must have been on garden leave that day. Sorry.

I think Heatonpark might like to see a properly photo-shopped version rather than a drawing.

Here we go for the drawings anyway

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/metrolinkyellow2ui7.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a260/Geeves8612/metrolinkyellow1wp3.jpg

Looks like the political problem is solved, if it ever existed! At least 2 M5000s have been seen at Altrincham Interchange this morning already. I would agree with Vince that the 8 should be running whatever.

you might see the odd one or two out during peak like this morning but they then got took back into the depot! they seem to be only sending them out if there are not enough 1xxx or 2xxx for normal service! :ohno:

you might see the odd one or two out during peak like this morning but they then got took back into the depot! they seem to be only sending them out if there are not enough 1xxx or 2xxx for normal service! :ohno:

no end in sight for this row about money then. i hope this doesnt permenantly soul relations between stagecoach and GMPTE but i always wondered why they cant run metrolink themselves? surely it would be cheaper?

Got on a yellow one before but it was during rush hour from Victoria to Alti. Saw one or two others about.

no end in sight for this row about money then. i hope this doesnt permenantly soul relations between stagecoach and GMPTE but i always wondered why they cant run metrolink themselves? surely it would be cheaper?

My thoughts exactly. I really don't like Stagecoach, so I hope that their contract isn't renewed. Does anybody know how long the contract is?

Cheers Local Lad.

I spoke to a painter last week and knowing my curiosity with the tram, she muttered about public art and how far behind it is with contemporary trends.

Turquoise, she argued was a seventies colour. Used by the Metrolink in the 90's.

Yellow a 90's colour, used again two decades latter.

Perhaps she laughed. Metrolink will be purple in 2025.

She looked pallid and interested and myself, flushed and confused.

Perhaps they should be black then? It never goes out of fashion. Brums trams are purple but then theyve got a horrible horrible Metro logo.

Mancunian white and Sunglow orange, along with the wavy M logo. Timeless classic, that most recognise.

If Stagecoach and First (buses) can paint a few vehicles in 'heritage' liveries, why can't Metrolink?

As someone who remembers GM buses but wasnt aroun in the SELNEC days, that livery is really really 70's. The short lived Wigan Bus Company had a great maroon livery that copied the vintage Wigan Bus Company livery, wouldnt go out of date as its a vintage anyway.

no end in sight for this row about money then. i hope this doesnt permenantly soul relations between stagecoach and GMPTE but i always wondered why they cant run metrolink themselves? surely it would be cheaper?

I think Stagecoach's contract is for 10 years from May 2007, I also seem to recall that there was an option to extend this beyond 2017.
Legislation prevents GMPTE from directly operating the system as with all the light rail systems. Our elders and betters in Whitehall seem to think that this results in better efficiency (lol).
I still reckon that any payment due from GMPTE in respect of M5000 use would not be due to Stagecoach but Bombardier. Stagecoach will operate and maintain whatever is provided by GMPTE. Obviously they have minimum levels of serviceable trams to provide and the easy option would be to use the newer and more reliable M5000 fleet. this is what happens when contract lawyers and accountants get involved. The public interest gets forgotten.

If Stagecoach and First (buses) can paint a few vehicles in 'heritage' liveries, why can't Metrolink?

They want a concistent brand?

Thats true, and it is something to admire that their the only tram system in the country not to have done full body adverts (though Tramlinks put a stop to it since being bought by Tfl).

I would hope that if GM gets TfL powers over public transport that we could enact the same policy over Bus livery.

I for one would much prefer if those nasty Rangers colours of Stagecoach and the even more vile sick pink of First Buses was replaced by something uniformly more ascetic and stylishly Mancunian.

Unified Liverys nice, I would just want unified ticketing however. Theirs a few towns in England and Scotland that still have municipal fleets and I want to know how theyve got away with it?

Blackpool Transport is owned by the council - most of the trams are in the cream and green municiple colours -( and some in the Metro costlines as are the buses).

Certainly gives a sense of unity.

As for Metrolink - the one colour scheme is best - it is MetroLINK not just for Manchester - so if you have trams in one colour scheme then you need to have some in the other borough colours as well! Logistacally not good. (mind you the Blackpool trams run to Fleetwood which is not part of Blackpool borough!).

Perhaps they should be black then? It never goes out of fashion. Brums trams are purple but then theyve got a horrible horrible Metro logo.

yes , it looks like a snail and maybe the eccles trams should have a snail on the side too

Unified Liverys nice, I would just want unified ticketing however. Theirs a few towns in England and Scotland that still have municipal fleets and I want to know how theyve got away with it?

Because they never sold them, the councils established private limited companies solely owned by them to transfer their municipal fleets to. They are still governed by the same bonkers laws regarding competition and the need to operate as a for-profit organisation rather than a council service.

A photo of Queens Road Depot in the small hours, taken I hasten to add legally in the course of work.
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/34837661.jpg
All the fleet except for 3012 which was out on test runs between the depot and Bury all night.
Apologies for the quality but it was taken with my small hand held Canon Ixus40 so I just had to point and shoot.

Yep, that depots full :P

Technically they went over even its expanded stabling capacity when 3013 arrived.

With all the trams ordered so far (and queens road at max capacity) theirs 26 slots left at Trafford with trams for Airport, Oldham TC, 2CC and any other expansions like Trafford/Stockport/Airport Loop still to be ordered.

Yep, that depots full :P

Technically they went over even its expanded stabling capacity when 3013 arrived.

With all the trams ordered so far (and queens road at max capacity) theirs 26 slots left at Trafford with trams for Airport, Oldham TC, 2CC and any other expansions like Trafford/Stockport/Airport Loop still to be ordered.

3014 is due to arrive at Queens Road this week!

Trafford Bar should be open at least for stabling within the next couple of months, but if theirs some problem perhaps they will be storing them over night at Bury?

Trafford Bar should be open at least for stabling within the next couple of months, but if theirs some problem perhaps they will be storing them over night at Bury?

At the rate they are arriving again space will be a problem very quickly, with 3014 arriving this week the night stabling and movements will be difficult and time consuming. Additionally power capacity could be a problem with so many trams on the depot. Does anyone know if the planned power upgrade at Queens Road has been completed yet?
Out stabling at Bury or Piccadilly would need security staff and also restrict the ability to isolate the overhead for engineering work.

Thats why I was thinking Bury, its a sheltered secure site thats close to the depot. Piccadilly might be good in theory but you cant segregate it from the rest of the station and the tunnels are fairly vulnerable.

Suppose they could go crazy and just keep them moving all night on shakedowns and training.

Was reading on Edinburgh Trams and theyve got self lubricating wheels to stop the squeel when doing tight corners. Perhaps that should be added to feature requests on the first mid life refurbs.

Thats why I was thinking Bury, its a sheltered secure site thats close to the depot. Piccadilly might be good in theory but you cant segregate it from the rest of the station and the tunnels are fairly vulnerable.

Suppose they could go crazy and just keep them moving all night on shakedowns and training.

Was reading on Edinburgh Trams and theyve got self lubricating wheels to stop the squeel when doing tight corners. Perhaps that should be added to feature requests on the first mid life refurbs.

It used to possible to close off Bury platforms at the entrance from the bus station but I don't think it is now. Bury could stable 8 trams, Piccadilly in theory slightly more using the sidings and platforms. Running a few through the night would be useful in Winter perhaps to help reduce the icing of the overhead.

All the T68 fleet have a graphite based lubricating system on the motor bogies for that reason. Its a spring loaded lubricant stick which bears on the corner between the flange and tread. I don't know if the M5000s have it, I would imagine they do. The Docklands Light Railway have a similar system. It is really intended to reduce tyre wear and rail wear.

Theyve got a sandite dispenser but no lubricant I dont think.

Altrincham could probably station 4 trams at night...?

its not really a securable site is it? I mean you can hop fences to get in

How about Cornbrook viaduct then? - they've stored them there before.

Yep, that depots full :P

Technically they went over even its expanded stabling capacity when 3013 arrived.

With all the trams ordered so far (and queens road at max capacity) theirs 26 slots left at Trafford with trams for Airport, Oldham TC, 2CC and any other expansions like Trafford/Stockport/Airport Loop still to be ordered.

What are the tram capacities for both Queens Road and Old Trafford Depot's?

Oh your right I messed up figures (I did them only last year too, my poor memory)

T-Bar recieved planning permission on condition no more than 46 were stabled there (I used 56 in my figures above)

Queens road originally built for 25 (and not expanded when eccles expansion) its now been expanded to hold 44 http://www.volkerrail.co.uk/bin/ibp.jsp?ibpDispWhat=object&ibpPage=S5_FocusPage&ibpDispWho=STNI_ITEMS%5El4191&ibpVersion=0&ibpZone=S5_GroupNewsb&ibpDisplay=view&

total stabling capacity 90
Currently 26 T68, 6 T68A and 13 M5000 = 45
Another 35 ordered = 10 spaces left not including Airport/2cc/whatever in future

T-Bar recieved planning permission on condition no more than 46 were stabled there (I used 56 in my figures above)



Is that because they could only fit 46 trams on that site?

No, noise and environmental pollution concerns. I think they originally applied for more though not seen the proper app, only a layout diagram with more stabling (61 I think) and the approval conditions.

Edit:
Yep dug up the original plans which had stabling for 61 trams, and the planning approval http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/twa/dl/archive/applicationsfortheproposedgr5621?page=1 which adds the restriction no more than 55 trams may be on the site at any one time. So I was right the first time, should have trusted my memory more :P

So the double checked 100% accurate (3rd attempt at) proper figures are

Queens Road 44
Trafford Bar 55
total stabling capacity 99
Currently 26 T68, 6 T68A and 13 M5000 = 45 + another 35 ordered = 80
spaces left not including Airport/2cc/whatever in future 19

Trafford bar their legally prevented from storing more than 55 even temporarily,while Queens Road managed for a decade at 7 or 25% over capacity seeing that image I would say the new 44 stabling spaces is pretty much the most they can squeeze into the site.

No, noise and environmental pollution concerns. I think they originally applied for more though not seen the proper app, only a layout diagram with more stabling (55 I think) and the approval conditions.

Ahh right. Bit daft really. It's not gonna cause much noise. It's not as if they speed around the depot.

There's no houses nearby really either.

All the fleet except for 3012 which was out on test runs between the depot and Bury all night.
Apologies for the quality but it was taken with my small hand held Canon Ixus40 so I just had to point and shoot.

The depot was so full you missed 3003 which was out on the Altrincham line all night.

On the subject of the ever increasing number of trams arriving and the available space for them, one possibility thats been mentioned is for them to be kept at the new depot. They could make their own way there under power during an overnight possesion and then be pushed into Old Trafford depot by the SPV. Much like was done at QRD during the recent expansion of the stabling roads.

It was mentioned a while ago that the second depot will have to be ready to accept trams by July (I think) anyway, as this is when the new junction for the Oldham line is being installed, which means no access to Queens Road for a week. Buses running between Vic and Crumpsall and what not. :)

Thats another 4 trams in the meantime :P

The depot was so full you missed 3003 which was out on the Altrincham line all night.

On the subject of the ever increasing number of trams arriving and the available space for them, one possibility thats been mentioned is for them to be kept at the new depot. They could make their own way there under power during an overnight possesion and then be pushed into Old Trafford depot by the SPV. Much like was done at QRD during the recent expansion of the stabling roads.

The one that got away then!
Obviously we only saw 3012 leave before we got on the track for our job. I assume 3003 must have already been southside.

well untill the gmpte pay the money they owe stagecoach you won't be seeing many bannanas in service!!

well untill the gmpte pay the money they owe stagecoach you won't be seeing many bannanas in service!!

It's a ridiculous situation, I'm surprised the MEN hasn't picked up on it.

well untill the gmpte pay the money they owe stagecoach you won't be seeing many bannanas in service!!

I don't know about that; I was on a banana last night between Piccadilly Gardens and Cornbrook - 3004 I believe. It was way past peak hours - getting for 8 o'clock - so it can't have been necessary to operate a 3xxx at that time....

It's come straight from my depot managers mouth why do you think there has only been 2 or 3 in service out of the 10 that are ready to be used and the last two weekend There has been none out.

It's come straight from my depot managers mouth why do you think there has only been 2 or 3 in service out of the 10 that are ready to be used and the last two weekend There has been none out.

Do you devote all your spare time thinking of different ways to be negative about Metrolink?

Do you devote all your spare time thinking of different ways to be negative about Metrolink?

How is he being negative if he's providing facts?

It's come straight from my depot managers mouth why do you think there has only been 2 or 3 in service out of the 10 that are ready to be used and the last two weekend There has been none out.

I don't doubt you for a moment; although, even within companies such as Metrolink, rumours and speculation can propagate amongst staff.

I'm simply saying that if Stagecoach are being spiteful, they would only be operating M5000s if it was absolutely necessary to maintain contracted service levels. At 8 o'clock at night, when no direct services are operating and frequencies have been reduced, they should be able to meet service levels without having to use any M5000s, so why do they continue to do so?

There may be a perfectly logical explanation. I don't know, I'm just asking.

i work for metrolink and won't be saying what job i do:) but when i say it came straight from the depot managers mouth it did. All so one of the bombardier lad's was telling me they are finding it hard to do there checks and downloads because the trams are not out in service:bash:

Do you devote all your spare time thinking of different ways to be negative about Metrolink?

How is this negative? If true - and I've no reason to doubt it isn't, given the obvious lack of 3000s in service lately - it is a disgraceful situation.

We know the MEN love a bit of negativity, but blaming everyone's concerns on negativity, like blaming all the problems on TIF, is not helpful.

Like Priscilla says, why are new trams out in service in off-peak hours if they are deliberately trying to not use them?

There are of course many reasons - but I am interested to know what it is, if you do work for them.

sounds like company gossip to me, even amongst managers it can be way off the mark

3013 was parked in the middle of the OT depot around 5pm on Saturday.

Just spotted this story on MEN Online. http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1238784_tram_boss_in_dreaded_man_email_blunder (http://http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1238784_tram_boss_in_dreaded_man_email_blunder)
It's the apology the guy was sent that made me smile.

How about Cornbrook viaduct then? - they've stored them there before.

When the city zone was being updated, about 20 trams were stored at G-Mex overnight. Could be a solution for future problems?

3013:banana: onwards will not come with ats and other bits and bobs missing of it:nuts: so they will only be able to go in service when the new TOS " tram operation system"is fully up and running on all parts of the system. so all :banana:s from 3013 onwards will be kept out of the way at the new oldtrafford depot :)

3013:banana: onwards will not come with ats and other bits and bobs missing of it:nuts: so they will only be able to go in service when the new TOS " tram operation system"is fully up and running on all parts of the system. so all :banana:s from 3013 onwards will be kept out of the way at the new oldtrafford depot :)

Sorry I am confused, what are "ats"`s and keeping trams from 3013 onwards out of the way, is this good or bad news?

Well 3014 was on test midday Wednesday on the Bury line.

Sorry I am confused, what are "ats"`s and keeping trams from 3013 onwards out of the way, is this good or bad news?

ATS = Automatic Tram Stop, if a tram goes past a red signal the breaks come on. this feature will not be on trams 3013>>onward so they can't be used until the presant system is updated with the TOS system. so they are going to be stored at Old Trafford Depot.

Well 3014 was on test midday Wednesday on the Bury line.

Seems strange to be able to run it without ATS in the midst of passenger services. I onder what the Railway Inspectorate would make of that? Perhaps Stagecoach have been taking shortcuts to try to get their alleged bonus!

Just spotted this story on MEN Online. http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1238784_tram_boss_in_dreaded_man_email_blunder (http://http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/1238784_tram_boss_in_dreaded_man_email_blunder)
It's the apology the guy was sent that made me smile.

This Aidan chap has been a constant problem for the Metrolink. Apparently he is a nuisance every time his service is unsatisfactory by even the smallest of margins.
I don't see why he has it in for the Metrolink so much.

I may have to investigate this further before I write to Metrolink. A section of their website says that multi-modal tickets are not available in the city zone, and I was examining one of the machines at Victoria. I'll have a look at Cornbrook ticket machines later.......

My suspicions have been confirmed. I noticed yesterday that the new TVMs at Cornbrook have finally been switched on. As I was travelling to Heaton Chapel, I wanted to buy a combined Metrolink/National Rail ticket, but there was no facility to do so.

As it happens the old machine was still working, but I was 20p short of the fare!! :doh: Sod's law - if the new machines had the ability to provide these tickets, I could've used my card.... :gaah:

Are you sure? You select the saver tickets option from the first screen then have an option of weekly/monthly season tickets or Tram+Bus, Tram+Rail and Tram+Rail+Bus.

Theirs two types of machines as well, one will say in black along the top 'Single and return only' and the other will says 'saver and season tickets' or something like that. I usually buy the all day tram ticket for £4 and pay by debit card.

Are you sure? You select the saver tickets option from the first screen then have an option of weekly/monthly season tickets or Tram+Bus, Tram+Rail and Tram+Rail+Bus.

Theirs two types of machines as well, one will say in black along the top 'Single and return only' and the other will says 'saver and season tickets' or something like that. I usually buy the all day tram ticket for £4 and pay by debit card.

You're right - the day saver tickets are there. I think the tram and train one is £6.30. I didn't want a day saver though - a return from Cornbrook to Piccadilly plus a return from Piccadilly to Heaton Chapel is definitely a lot cheaper than that!!

I just wanted a simple return ticket from Cornbrook to Rail Zone 1. As I mentioned, that was available from the old machine - it was £2.80. :ohno:

Incidentally, did you know that if you buy the Metromax ticket you mentioned from Cornbrook, it only costs £2.90!! I've bought it myself a few times when I've known that I'm going to making more than a couple of journeys...

I hadnt noticed, being in Rail Zone 3 the tickets are quite a bit more expensive, its £3.30 for a return train ticket alone offpeak. I can buy a train+metro ticket in Wigan thats a bit cheaper £6.70 or something I think.

3015 arrived at Queens Road depot yesterday, No dought it will be tested at Queens Road Depot then stored at Old Trafford Depot, same as 3013 and probabilly 3014.

3015 arrived at Queens Road depot yesterday, No dought it will be tested at Queens Road Depot then stored at Old Trafford Depot, same as 3013 and probabilly 3014.

any more news on the row with GMPTE?

I'v got a reasonably reliable source that says its all rumour mongering, and theres a simple explanation behind it, but didnt go so far as to say what

I'm pleased to have joined the forum having been a "reader" for some time.
I have some good news on the new ticket machines. You can still book through to heavy rail zones 1, 2 and 3. It's a bit misleading because you have to select Day Saver Tram + Train but it does then give you a choice of the three rail zones. I had to ring Customer Services to discover this. If only they had consulted regular users before configuring the machines!

Well its all software, can be patched later to make it more intuitive based on public feedback. Going to have to be patched to add Media:City soon anyway.

Was playing cricket today and didn't see ONE tram go past on the Bury line - what's going on?

This Aidan chap has been a constant problem for the Metrolink. Apparently he is a nuisance every time his service is unsatisfactory by even the smallest of margins.
I don't see why he has it in for the Metrolink so much.

If he is an Eccles line user, I don't blame him. I despise working in Salford Quays and relying on the tram. I must admit service has improved slightly of late, especially in the morning, though it's still hit and miss in the evenings. Not sure about the other lines but during Peak, Eccles is not fun from a passenger perspective.

Was playing cricket today and didn't see ONE tram go past on the Bury line - what's going on?

United Utilities power cut in Bury.

This Aidan chap has been a constant problem for the Metrolink. Apparently he is a nuisance every time his service is unsatisfactory by even the smallest of margins.
I don't see why he has it in for the Metrolink so much.

Maybe Metrolink has been a problem to Aiden? Maybe if you had to use the Eccles line all the time you may agree:)

Maybe Metrolink has been a problem to Aiden? Maybe if you had to use the Eccles line all the time you may agree:)

Well he claimed in the paper the only time he had used a tram was the only time he had ever been late for work, now it emerges he has a massive file of complaints.

Are the trams going more slowly than they used to - before the bananas?

A member of Metrolink staff explained a halt/delay to me by saying that the banana trams were slower and so our old tram had to wait to allow the banana ahead to get clear, i.e. we had caught-up with it. After this comment all my old tram journeys have felt slower and it does seem like a while since I experienced one of the high-speed (off-peak) white knuckle rides of the Bury "wild mouse" service.

Are the trams going more slowly than they used to - before the bananas?

A member of Metrolink staff explained a halt/delay to me by saying that the banana trams were slower and so our old tram had to wait to allow the banana ahead to get clear, i.e. we had caught-up with it. After this comment all my old tram journeys have felt slower and it does seem like a while since I experienced one of the high-speed (off-peak) white knuckle rides of the Bury "wild mouse" service.

I understand that rather than them being slower there are speed limits that only apply to the M5000s due to the poor ride at the moment. Presumably once the ride problem is solved by whatever means these restrictions will be lifted.

A bunch of Bananas operating on ECC line today, good to see them back

I'm pleased to have joined the forum having been a "reader" for some time.
I have some good news on the new ticket machines. You can still book through to heavy rail zones 1, 2 and 3. It's a bit misleading because you have to select Day Saver Tram + Train but it does then give you a choice of the three rail zones. I had to ring Customer Services to discover this. If only they had consulted regular users before configuring the machines!

I have just now double checked this with the new TVMs at Cornbrook. Single or return tickets to Rail zones 1, 2 or 3 are NOT available, or if they are, it is not obvious how.

If, as you describe, you press the train/tram/bus button, you are presented with an option of how long your ticket is for, i.e. day, week, 4 weeks etc. Then you are given the option of tram only, tram and bus, tram and train, or all three. If you choose tram and train, you were then asked to choose a rail zone. There were no further options - you are just asked to pay the price of £6.30, which is the price of a daysaver ticket for trams and trains.

Even if it had been possible to do it that way, it wouldn't have been very obvious. If you ask me, it would make much more sense to have one of the main destinations on the front screen called 'Greater Manchester Rail Stations' or similar. That could lead to an option to select rail zone, and then, just like with every Metrolink destination, you could be presented with the prices of single and return tickets before selecting and paying. Not rocket science is it?!:crazy:

I've just tried one of the machines at Navigation Road and yes whichever Rail Zone you select the fare is always £6.30! Obviously the software was not properly tested before installation. They should have asked a group of regular Metrolink users to test the software beforehand. I've just spoken to Metrolink Customer Services. They said that they are aware of the problem and of the fact that some passengers are paying more than they should be. I was told that a software change is in the pipeline to enable passengers to purchase single and return tickets from Metrolink stations to heavy rail zones in GM but it is not known how long this will take to implement.

I can now confirm that a second m5000 vehicle is being stored at the trafford depot.

Apparently 3001 is there

Chatting to a driver yesterday, there is a second rumour reasoning the disapearance of the M5000's. In so much as they are destroying the track with the amount of vibration etc, this does sound more reasonable than the first to me. Probably incorrect though

Double Post

The new GPS systems that have been added to the tram roofs are already starting to rust, seems the stands have been made from something not protected from the Manchester weather.

Apparently 3001 is there


Yes it is.

Apparently 3001 is there

Chatting to a driver yesterday, there is a second rumour reasoning the disapearance of the M5000's. In so much as they are destroying the track with the amount of vibration etc, this does sound more reasonable than the first to me. Probably incorrect though


The Eccles line must be M5000 vibration proof, plenty of :banana: spotted going Picc-Ecc over the last few days, according to posters on the 'construction' thread
;)

lol, well it has very little rail running being mostly slower street running. But for the record its not a M5000 problem alone. To turn tighter corners than heavy rail light rail vehicles have their wheels slightly angled rather than vertical. At high speed this makes them more prone to swaying as the lateral motions are picked up by the angled wheels. This gets worse when the track is worn (and the M5000 is worse on those sections of the Altrincham line which are still original and havent been replaced after the previous partial replacement). Docklands vehicles are reportedly suffering this problem quite severley now too as their track has started suffering the same ageing.

The soloution is either the added suspension that the second batch are reportedly recieving, slighly altering the wheel angle, or replacing those old bits of track still not replaced.

funny you should mention the DLR, I went to Excel (the exhibition centre in docklands) the other week and the DLR did rock way more the any M5000 i've been on! it was a packed train so we were standing (or tying too.... :( )

lol, well it has very little rail running being mostly slower street running. But for the record its not a M5000 problem alone. To turn tighter corners than heavy rail light rail vehicles have their wheels slightly angled rather than vertical. At high speed this makes them more prone to swaying as the lateral motions are picked up by the angled wheels. This gets worse when the track is worn (and the M5000 is worse on those sections of the Altrincham line which are still original and havent been replaced after the previous partial replacement). Docklands vehicles are reportedly suffering this problem quite severley now too as their track has started suffering the same ageing.

The soloution is either the added suspension that the second batch are reportedly recieving, slighly altering the wheel angle, or replacing those old bits of track still not replaced.

Angled wheels! How does that work? The wheels aren't angled. They profile of the tread and flange is different. As far as I am aware the T68 and M5000 have the same profile. The problem is as you say suspension settings and track condition.
Docklands vehicles have always ridden far worse than Metrolink trams and at far lower speeds as well. I haven't ridden on the newer DLR sets but the earlier ones have always shown that sideways motion.

http://www.railway-technical.com/whl001.gif
http://www.railway-technical.com/whl002.gif

http://www.railway-technical.com/whl001.gif
http://www.railway-technical.com/whl002.gif

I misunderstood your comment re the angle of the wheels. You were obviously referring to the conicity of the wheel tread. Yes trams have a slightly different profile, in fact I believe that all the UK systems have different profiles. The principle behind the coning is that the wheels should steer round bends due to the slightly changing circumference of the inner and outer edges of the tread. The inner and outer wheels on a curve will want to move over to the outside of the curve but because of the difference in diameter theyshould be guided back to a central position again thus steering the wheels round the curve. This works well on railways with large radius curves. The problem with tramways is that the tight curves push this technology to the limit and the flanges start to do the steering. Also on straight track the wheelsets start to wander from side to side slightly causing a phenomenon called 'hunting'. This is what causes the side to side motion of the tram and can be exaggerated by the suspension if the dampers aren't quite right.
As I said the M5000 and T68 have the same wheel profile but obviously have totally different suspension settings, a bit like performance cars they need tuning to the conditions they are used under.

Labour's £10bn pre-election spending spree faces review

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/may/19/labour-government-spending-spree

"The scale of Labour's pre-election spending spree is revealed in official records showing that ministers spent at least £10.5bn on one-off projects in their last four months in office.

The 60 schemes signed off by ministers between January and last month are all under review by the Conservative-Liberal Democrat coalition and could be cut....

Some £986m of transport projects were agreed by Labour this year. The Manchester Metrolink extension, the new Luton-Dunstable Busway service and improvements to the Tees Valley bus network are all now included in the coalition review."


Could someone slightly more informed than I clarify what aspects of the extension would be under review?

The only bit the governments funding is two 3km stretchs which connect phase 3a to the rest of phase 3b (and 6 trams) since constructions already started and it would be pointless and impossible to suddenly take out 'c' in an A-B-C-D line I think its fairly safe. Midland Metro Extension on the other hand may be in danger.

Also reported that Wigan-Salfords joint £400m Building Schools for the Future program could be in danger, £285 was to be spent rebuilding most of Wigans high schools and bringing them uptodate as well as located where theres need after a similar project in primary schools was completed some years back. The program itself had recieved final approval from the government but some individual elements within it (how the money was divvied up) had only achieved programme entry status. Thats my main worry about cancellation.

The only bit the governments funding is two 3km stretchs which connect phase 3a to the rest of phase 3b (and 6 trams) since constructions already started and it would be pointless and impossible to suddenly take out 'c' in an A-B-C-D line I think its fairly safe. Midland Metro Extension on the other hand may be in danger.

Also reported that Wigan-Salfords joint £400m Building Schools for the Future program could be in danger, £285 was to be spent rebuilding most of Wigans high schools and bringing them uptodate as well as located where theres need after a similar project in primary schools was completed some years back. The program itself had recieved final approval from the government but some individual elements within it (how the money was divvied up) had only achieved programme entry status. Thats my main worry about cancellation.


Hopefully the coalition won't go back on long overdue spending in the UK's lowest per capita tax spend region (Greater Manchester)... I've writen a very strongly worded (Oh look at me!) letter to John Leech (Lib Dem - Withington and ex shadow transport minister) and asked that I can post the response on this website. So hopefully at some point this week we can get some clarity on where we stand on the Metro 3b extensions.

:soon:

To be fair to John Leech he's responded and is currently on the phone to Norman Baker getting some assurances about Metrolink. I think he's more than angry about the article in the Guardian.

Quick quote from Mr Leech (hot off the press):

"Given that the coalition agreement has included Lib Dem manifesto commitments on investment in the green economy, it would be ridiculous to cut funding for Metrolink".

I've asked to post Norman Bakers response on the internet. I'll keep you all posted. Nothing but a 100% guarantee will be good enough for me though. I'm sure you all feel the same way.

The only bit the governments funding is two 3km stretchs which connect phase 3a to the rest of phase 3b (and 6 trams) since constructions already started and it would be pointless and impossible to suddenly take out 'c' in an A-B-C-D line I think its fairly safe. Midland Metro Extension on the other hand may be in danger.


Unfortunately for Midland Metro I think Watcher could be spot on here. More on their Transport thread here:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=403381
The only possible saving grace might be that the LDs could want to retain at least some of their greener credentials and act as a balance against Tory Transport cutbacks. We live in hope! Birmingham is now being left tragically behind as the biggest conurbation in Europe with the lowest level of urban rail provision.

It makes us wonder how this happened. What did Centro do wrong? Even with Geoff Inscape who did so well for GMPTE they've not been able to stir up the same level of support for light rail there. Now I don't want to be critical but maybe something can be gleaned from this thread about the level of enthusiasm for light rail in the WM. This "Trams" thread lay moribund for months while posters were incessantly thumping out comments about Metrolink past present and future, and as you'll see it's also been dead since March. You would think people would be more engaged:http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=403381) Bit sad really.

(PS there is another fascinating discussion going on here:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=434881)

Mark O - it's a cultural thing in Birmingham. It's Motor City in lots of ways. People generally won't get out of their cars and a lot of their restaurants and developments are next to massive car parks (Brindleyplace, Mailbox etc.). A lot of people live much further out than in Manchester and therefore supplying Trams to central parts of Birmingham won't help them to get back to Solihull, Worcester or Shropshire or where they've travelled from. Social division appears to be more noticeable in Birmingham and it looks and feels much more like a North American city in it's demographics and car use than a typical British one. I'm sure a lot of rich Brummies wouldn't ever get on public transport unlike say people from Heaton Moor/Cheadle/Bramhall who would.

Further to that, the bus network in Birmingham is excellent - you can get around the whole conurbation easily (if you know the route numbers). And if you drive, there are motorways everywhere, with the A38 going straight through the centre in tunnels (although it's a nightmare in the rush hour).

Yeah with relatives in Birmingham I do envy their wide roads, but thats proper urban planning a century ago for you. Their heavy rail network aint a patch on our own however so perhaps thats where they should focus, was also huge public outcry against the metro expansion asking why it was needed when people could just walk. The only positive sign of public acceptance is one stop where the residents sucessfully petitioned to block it during initial construction they are now petitioning to get one built instead seeing the benefits.

A few more nanas were out and about today :-

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_5579.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_5577.jpg

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_5573.jpg

Is this the headshunt . . .

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx61/Johnny_de_Rivative/100_5575.jpg

Headshunt!?

I don't remember that stop being on the Metrolink map ...

My dictionary says a headshunt is a small length of track at terminal stations to allow a locomotive to change carriages.

Why its on the Display? no idea.

My dictionary says a headshunt is a small length of track at terminal stations to allow a locomotive to change carriages.

Why its on the Display? no idea.

To Metrolink staff it is the length of track where all the depot sidings come together at the far end of Queens Road Depot!

lol, well it has very little rail running being mostly slower street running. But for the record its not a M5000 problem alone. To turn tighter corners than heavy rail light rail vehicles have their wheels slightly angled rather than vertical. At high speed this makes them more prone to swaying as the lateral motions are picked up by the angled wheels. This gets worse when the track is worn (and the M5000 is worse on those sections of the Altrincham line which are still original and havent been replaced after the previous partial replacement). Docklands vehicles are reportedly suffering this problem quite severley now too as their track has started suffering the same ageing.

The soloution is either the added suspension that the second batch are reportedly recieving, slighly altering the wheel angle, or replacing those old bits of track still not replaced.

I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that the phase one metrolink vehicles at least had standard heavy rail wheel profiles, due to most of the running being on former heavy rail track which was NOT renewed when the Metrolink was built.

See the "phase one" section here:
http://www.lrta.org/Manchester/Track.html
It says they specifically ground the street running rail back to the heavy rail profile to make it compatible! I imagine this is why our trams seem to use the flanges so much in the city centre and are noisy round corners.

Could the problem be instead that the M5000 suspension was designed for more conical wheels, but they have been fitted with standard rail wheels without much adjustment to compensate?

Well its interesting question, apparantly all german rails no matter the type of traffic they convey are ground to a standarised 1/40 while 1/20 seems british standard other countries have different pgrinding profile standards, some types with different shapes of grinding. But im no expert on this just skimming some engineering articles.

I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that the phase one metrolink vehicles at least had standard heavy rail wheel profiles, due to most of the running being on former heavy rail track which was NOT renewed when the Metrolink was built.

See the "phase one" section here:
http://www.lrta.org/Manchester/Track.html
It says they specifically ground the street running rail back to the heavy rail profile to make it compatible! I imagine this is why our trams seem to use the flanges so much in the city centre and are noisy round corners.

Could the problem be instead that the M5000 suspension was designed for more conical wheels, but they have been fitted with standard rail wheels without much adjustment to compensate?

Basically you are right. However the inside face of the flange is thinned to allow it to run on grooved rail. As I indicated earlier the tight curves found on tramways mean that the flange on the outer wheel on a tram negotiating a curve will always tend to be in contact with the running edge of the rail causing wear. This is pretty well irrespective of wheel profile, in fact some of the most modern low floor trams which don't have solid axles are the worst for this probelm as they don't steer well at all.

To be fair to John Leech he's responded and is currently on the phone to Norman Baker getting some assurances about Metrolink. I think he's more than angry about the article in the Guardian.

Leech is a decent bloke, and actually cares about public transport. I imagine he was far from impressed that Hammond's first priority as Transport Secretary was to talk about 'ending the war on motorists' :|

Metrolink suspended yet again in the rush hour last night between Old Trafford and Altrincham due to overhead wire problems yet again. I feel sorry for the passengers on the 263 bus who have paid for their weekly ticket and can't get on due to the innefficiencies of another operator which then allows it's passengers to use their ticket free on the bus.

The driver just forgot to press sync on the display control when he changed ends at pic undercroft so all it will show is head shunt!;)once he has done this the next stations will be displayed .

I take it the M5000's have been deemed 'fit to fly' this weekend. There was LOADS operating on all the lines (especialy the bury line) on saturday.

Yeah I was on No 2 banana this evening from Bury to my secret underground station to Heaton Park orangery.

Yeah I was on No 2 banana this evening from Bury to my secret underground station to Heaton Park orangery.

is that where the bunker is?

Well that wouldnt be a secret if I told you.

You aren't going to grow many oranges under thr ground.

Looks like most of the new TVM`s on the ECC line now working, with no less than three new machines at ECC stop.

^^ been like that at ECC for at least a week. Two new TVMs at Ladywell on Saturday not working, still had old ones in situ.

Broadway are on and Harbour City are being worked on this evening.

Ticket Machines at ECC stop have been causing problems for passengers but inspectors are still charging passengers what they would normally pay at the machines.
If the machines are broken I really do think that passengers should be allowed to travel for free.
Still, I am pleased at the growing number of inspects on-board trams. Even if it means getting your ticket out every now and again, it does mean less people getting away with a free ride. Almost every time the inspectors have been my tram in the past couple of months, they have caught someone off-guard, which means their work is worth-while.
Looking forward to seeing the Bananas back in full service this weekend - a friend is coming over from Huddersfield to witness them for the first time so it should be a treat!

Ticket Machines at ECC stop have been causing problems for passengers but inspectors are still charging passengers what they would normally pay at the machines.
If the machines are broken I really do think that passengers should be allowed to travel for free.
Still, I am pleased at the growing number of inspects on-board trams. Even if it means getting your ticket out every now and again, it does mean less people getting away with a free ride. Almost every time the inspectors have been my tram in the past couple of months, they have caught someone off-guard, which means their work is worth-while.
Looking forward to seeing the Bananas back in full service this weekend - a friend is coming over from Huddersfield to witness them for the first time so it should be a treat!

Why should the trip be free if the machine isn't working? At least the Inspectors are only charging the advertised ticket price rather than the Standard Fare (when caught with no ticket) of anything up to £100 or £50 if paid promptly.

To be fair to John Leech he's responded and is currently on the phone to Norman Baker getting some assurances about Metrolink.

Not sure if you've seen it, but John Leech has just published a piece on his blog about Metrolink...

On Monday I was invited by Cllr Keith Whitmore (Chair of Greater Manchester Integrated Transport Authority) to view the progress of the Chorlton Metrolink along with the local Chorlton Ward Councillors.

We were invited to a special tour of the new South Manchester Metrolink line to see how far the project has progressed since work started last year shown round by the Metrolink project managers.

I was delighted to have the chance to see what progress has been made over recent months. Now that you can see the tracks being laid it feels as though Metrolink will be in Chorlton soon. Last time I visited the site it just looked like a building site. Now it looks more like a tram line for the 21st Century.

The progress that has been made is fantastic and we were shown around site with this notable progress to report:

* Several structures along the line are being refurbished, with work ranging from grit blasting and refinishing to deck and parapet replacement.

* Construction of the new route is also continuing apace in other areas. Concrete retaining walls at Trafford Bar have been constructed to enable the junction with the Altrincham line to be installed.

* Track slab and rails are now in place along much of the new line and foundations are in place at the Firswood ands Chorlton stops.

* At the St Werburgh’s Road stop, piling work adjacent to Elladene Park has been completed and construction of a footpath ramp from St Werburgh’s Road bridge down to the cycle path and the new stop is well underway.

* A new lift shaft and a staircase off St Werburgh’s Road, to the level of the cycle path, are being installed.

The 1.7-mile extension to St Werburgh’s Road in Chorlton will run south from Trafford Bar along a disused railway line, with three new stops at Firswood, Chorlton and St Werburgh’s Road. The Metrolink is all on schedule and is due to open in spring 2011, despite what the press are reporting to the contrary.

There have been mutterings about the fact that Metrolink is going to cancelled, members of the ITA have been reassured, and I have been personally reassured during discussions with the Minster for Transport and am absolutely certain Metrolink will be delivered as promised. I even offered the MEN journalist a £500 bet so that he could put his money where his story was, but he refused.

http://johnleechmp.wordpress.com/2010/05/26/metrolink-on-track/

Thanks for that Henry.

I hadn't seen it and I hope (like Mr Leech) that everything is going ahead as planned. If John Leech does send me any further info from the Transport Minister I'll put it on the site (if permitted). However it does worry me that he can't get a cast iron guarantee and that Crossrail seems to be being protected unlike everything else.