Not 100% sure this can be done but why can't they start withdrawing the worst 12 one by one and removing the signalling system and put it in one of the new M5000 and at least boost the fleet with more reliable fleet! Maybe then have the T-68's on the doubles then? Or could this give us the Oldham line?

Usually use 10% of its value lost each year, so first year 750k, second year 675k, 3rd year 607.5k, etc... so thats what 80-100k today?

Not 100% sure this can be done but why can't they start withdrawing the worst 12 one by one and removing the signalling system and put it in one of the new M5000 and at least boost the fleet with more reliable fleet! Maybe then have the T-68's on the doubles then? Or could this give us the Oldham line?

It all depends on how many of the later M5000s were built with the wiring for the old signalling. It would seem that the first 17 must have been. Also the equipment installed on 3001 to 3017 isn't exactly the same as that on the T68 fleets. It's manufactured by different companies and has been reverse engineered to match the functionality but may not share the same on board wiring.

As for the Oldham Line withdrawing 12 T68s and moving the kit to 12 M5000s out of store would only give us the same number of trams that we have now so not enough for Oldham.

Just so some of you know if it affects you, if there is disruption on the Altrincham line and you are advised to use the 263 bus, then find out that the driver doesn't know anything about it and charges you, it's correct. Arriva don't have any way to contact their drivers as they don't have radios.

Unless their inspector is in Piccadilly to inform the drivers then they will know, but the ones that have already left or are in Altrincham won't know. This also applies to the 63 to Eccles on sundays and in the evenings.

I think in this day and age, not having radios is unacceptable, although they do give them mobile phones, they need to be switched off when driving.

Now who owns Arriva? Deutsche Bahn. And it seems they don't have plans to fit radios either. Not good.

And now we have this:

https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Metrolinks-Shocking-Service/133951930057544

Recognize one name who was vocal during the C charge debate.

Let them whinge. I will say it again, I have encountered no problems up north to Bury.

Every other day I pass over the motorway at Besses and I see traffic delays.

Usually use 10% of its value lost each year, so first year 750k, second year 675k, 3rd year 607.5k, etc... so thats what 80-100k today?


At that rate we could buy our own tram in a few years.

SSC Mancunia Ahoy!

Anyone wish to image that one.

Few updates on the Transport Fund in here, though you have to wade through a lot of history of the programme.

http://www.agma.gov.uk/cms_media/files/6_greater_manchester_transport_fund_update.pdf

For Metrolink it suggests their going to bring forward a proposal to purchase another 20 trams before September, that the Trafford line has been redesigned to significantly increase its GVA and is now has a good business plan waiting for funds to come from somewhere. Wigan Inner Relief Road is back on the waiting for funding pile after Government withdrew support. The £50m stations improvement project is also waiting for funds, their going to try and get them from the next round of rail refranchising. East Lancashire Railway project is at the 'reviewing study data' stage. £165m for SEMMMS has been greenlit by the Government who want an accelerated program but its local contribution financing of £89m wont be available for some years and so work cant start, their proposing to do the Metrolink interface and utilities diversions in the vicinity of the Manchester Airport City site in the interim so that it doesnt slow down Airport City development.

Manchester Airport has renegotiated its £50m Metrolink contribution since the main works wont start till 2014 or so. Instead of giving £25m in 2012 and 2013 it will now give £10m in each of the next 5 years, to compensate for the later financing their also throwing in another £1m.

Reading this from the non Metrolink forum am I right in saying that the 20 new trams will be ordered this summer?

If so, surely one we get TMS it is goodbye T68s.

Reading this from the non Metrolink forum am I right in saying that the 20 new trams will be ordered this summer?

If so, surely one we get TMS it is goodbye T68s.

I read this at work in one of the work circular emails I still get from my former job and I texted a few people who I thought might know and the general opinion was hopefully yes to what you too are thinking Kurt.

One suggested that it will be gradual than in one sudden closure. Half scrapped for parts and the rest sold off if a (gullible) suitable buyer can be sort, I am sure there is some back door eastern Eurasian city that could do a mend and make do job on them.

At 15k I am sure some various transport museums would be curious. If I win the euro il ions tomorrow don't be surprised to see one in Heaton Park this summer.

By the way rumour is that the boys in blue paid a visit to Metrolink today. Heard anything that can be transmitted on here Kurt?

Reading this from the non Metrolink forum am I right in saying that the 20 new trams will be ordered this summer?

If so, surely one we get TMS it is goodbye T68s.

5 Other Metrolink Capital Programmes
5.1 Other Metrolink Capital Programmes include a number of projects to enhance the overall quality of service for passengers. This includes a programme to replace the existing fleet of 32 T68 trams.
5.2 Proposals to replace 12 of the existing fleet of T68 trams were approved by the Combined Authority in September 2011. The latest financial projections have been prepared after allowing for the costs relating to the acquisition of an additional 20 trams to replace the remainder of the existing T68 fleet. Detailed proposals will be submitted to GMCA for consideration in relation to the procurement of additional trams before the expiry of the current contractual option period in September 2012.

Metrolink Trafford Park
4.3 The redesign of the Trafford Metrolink line has significantly improved its forecast GVA return at the Greater Manchester level. This would further strengthen the case for the investment as and when sufficient funding is available to extend the GMTF programme.

Does seem like they are planning on having all the T68's replaced, they may have found they can just afford it with some spare cash in case the future lines don't generate the money. But that's it. No spare money for anything.

Redesigning of the Trafford Park line? New or the extending it to Port Salford?

Just a rough idea,
If we took the old signalling out of 5 or 6 T68's, and then permanantly coupled them to another 5 still fitted with the signalling, then fit the old signalling removed from the first tram's to M5000's....Then youve got 5 Double units and 5 Extra M5000's.
If this is a stupid idea forgive me......07:30AM is early for me.

I thought that 3018 onwards weren't built with the wiring loom to allow the old signalling to be retrofitted!!

Just a rough idea,
If we took the old signalling out of 5 or 6 T68's, and then permanantly coupled them to another 5 still fitted with the signalling, then fit the old signalling removed from the first tram's to M5000's....Then youve got 5 Double units and 5 Extra M5000's.
If this is a stupid idea forgive me......07:30AM is early for me.

Unfortunately not. Each tram in a double unit needs its own equipment as the ATS and VRS are independant in each tram.

I thought that 3018 onwards weren't built with the wiring loom to allow the old signalling to be retrofitted!!

The original intention was that only 3001 to 3012 would be cabled, but that obviously changed. Thats why I wondered whether a standard wiring scheme was fitted to the whole fleet rather than having to design and procure 2 different cable forms and fit them. The cost of the extra cable would be fairly small compared to the extra design and testing specifications particulary given that the first add-on order after 3012 was only for twenty odd trams.

I remember an engineer telling me that in the first 20 trams there were actually three differing specifications and equipment layouts.

Reading this from the non Metrolink forum am I right in saying that the 20 new trams will be ordered this summer?

If so, surely one we get TMS it is goodbye T68s.

Best Metrolink news related news I've read all week. :banana:

Hope they do find and agree the funding ASAP.

Would that make 94 M5000's?

I'm wondering what the faults causing the breakdowns are. Is it's the same thing making it a common fault or something different each time? Obviously, if it's a common fault then perhaps they could do checks to try to prevent future breakdowns, or just patch them up and make a wish.

If the trams are to be replaced soon, then is it worth spending cash on them, although what is the cost of the breakdowns in terms of replacement bus services and paying operators to accept tickets on service buses? Then of course the cost in terms of image. How many passengers will find permanant alternatives due to the uncertainty which in turn brings revenue down further. Word of mouth can be either a good or a bad advertisement.

One perhaps positive thing about this weeks problems is that it maybring things to a head, and makes them do something about it. They surely can't allow this to keep occurring willy nilly with the same apology coming out each time.

I remember an engineer telling me that in the first 20 trams there were actually three differing specifications and equipment layouts.

Just to clarify Watcher - I assume you are referring to the T68s here?

Dean Kirby has just asked me to provide comment for an article in the MEN about the failures.

I have sent him the following..

Although I have plenty of comments and thoughts on the issues affecting Metrolink, I personally have not been affected by any of the issues this week, although my wife has.

My only comments would be that I hope TfGM can find the money to buy 20 more M5000s to replace the unreliable T68s at the earliest opportunity. I suspect that would have a seismic effect on the quality of service provided. Likewise, somehow Thales need resolve the TMS problems asap as I am sure that will improve the communications to the customers and the ability of RATP to deliver an improved service. On which point I do think that the public are being kept very much in the dark about the severity of the TMS issues, what they are doing to resolve them and how long they expect passengers to put up with a substandard service whilst the issues are being looked into.

All the best, keep up the good work.

Dean Kirby has requested comments on Greater Manchester Transport via Twitter...

Drop me a line at dean.kirby@men-news.co.uk or DM me if you have any news or views on transport in Greater #Manchester

Just to clarify Watcher - I assume you are referring to the T68s here?

No the M5000's, there was the 4 ordered for MediaCity, 12 for Altrincham-Bury then the ongoing numbers for the expansions and they were all a little different under the hood.

Following the suggestion on the Metrolink web site I have emailed them asking for information on what the official line is with regards increasing the M5000 order by 20 and whether the Oldham line will open with TMS or block signalling.

Don't expect much but thought it worth asking.

Following the suggestion on the Metrolink web site I have emailed them asking for information on what the official line is with regards increasing the M5000 order by 20 and whether the Oldham line will open with TMS or block signalling.

Don't expect much but thought it worth asking.

What about using The Freedom of Information Act?

What about using The Freedom of Information Act?

Tried that last year. Got nothing other than what we already know.

FWIW, Dean Kirby is using my quote in the paper tomorrow. He is running an article on the mid-life refurb / M5000 replacement issues.

Whenever money is involved Governments tend to clam up and cite commercial confidentiality.

Had quite a long chat with Dean on email this afternoon.

He seems like a very good bloke and despite what people on here may say about his attitude towards Metrolink I am pretty sure he wants the best for Metrolink and the city.

Whenever money is involved Governments tend to clam up and cite commercial confidentiality.

Yes and I can see why they would be very reluctant to give commitments - I can't help wondering if this is what happened to Croydon when they failed to open on time in 1999, and for several months had to run replacement buses, substituting for a service that had not been there !!! (I remember after watching Preston North End make a draw at Brentford in about 2000, I went from there to Wimbledon to try out the tram to Croydon, but found myself on a number T1 bustitution!).

And with all this talk of litigation under the Freedom of Information Act etc., are we not in danger of unnecessarily mithering TFGM, and distracting them just when they are very very extremely busy trying to sort things out - for nothing more than our own curiosity?

A curiosity which I share very fervently of course, but sometimes it is more exciting to wait and see what happens, when it happens, rather than have incorrect speculation followed by disappointment, no?

btw . . . I wonder what was said at the Committee meeting to-day about potential opening dates for Oldham? (No, I won't be zapping them a FOI request!!)

:colbert: :banana: :colbert: :colbert:

I am very aware of this, but I do hope that TfGM have a press office that can deal with such requests without impacting on those delivering the solution.

Either way, I only asked for the current, official line, as such, I am interested in what they state as the current line on the M5000s and hopefully a line from some report on TMS that has not been published but is safe for public consumption.

I'm sure your intentions are fine, Catsy, but just help me with how the press office finds out the information to give us, without troubling those who are delivering the solution?

I'd hope that the project provide reports on a regular basis that get recorded in an internl library.

I'd hope the press office have access to that library and can pass on the information.

For example, the request about the current position on the M5000s should be documented in some TfGM document / proposal that will be going to a committee.

Likewise, Thales must be sending over many reports as to what is going on. It would, I would hope, down to the press office / legal department to decide what should be released and not those dealing with the problems.

Wonder if this is a T68...

Due to an earlier failed tram at Prestwich services are currently experiencing delays on the Bury line. Metrolink sincerely apologis...

Wonder if this is a T68...

Hi

I sure they was broke down tram near abraham moss metrolink stop before too but I'm not too sure.

How much is a T68 worth? I know I guessed earlier but I should have asked my Mrs seeing as she's an accountant :)


This is what she said:

"For an asset with a historic cost of £750,000 with a residual value* of £24,750, using a reducing balance method of depreciation over 30 year. Ignoring the time value for money, by the end of the 21st year, the net book value of the asset (carrying value) is £68,868.56"


*The residual value is pretty much the very approximate scrap metal value of a T68 :)

Iheartthenew

She's right - that's what would be shown on the balance sheet if the tram was still being used.

As soon as it is scrapped it is only worth its scrap value though, unless some mugs pay more to take them for their own network.

Just so some of you know if it affects you, if there is disruption on the Altrincham line and you are advised to use the 263 bus, then find out that the driver doesn't know anything about it and charges you, it's correct. Arriva don't have any way to contact their drivers as they don't have radios.

Unless their inspector is in Piccadilly to inform the drivers then they will know, but the ones that have already left or are in Altrincham won't know. This also applies to the 63 to Eccles on sundays and in the evenings.

I think in this day and age, not having radios is unacceptable, although they do give them mobile phones, they need to be switched off when driving.

Now who owns Arriva? Deutsche Bahn. And it seems they don't have plans to fit radios either. Not good.

Purely a Manchester issue. Other more complex networks manage it.

Disruption on various TOC/Tube (LU, First, GoVia, NatEx, etc.) lines in London - tickets accepted on various London Buses (Abellio, RATP, Go-Ahead, First, Arriva, etc.)

Disruption on Midland Metro or London Midland City (GoVia) network, tickets accepted on West Midlands (NatEx) buses.

When GMML ran Metrolink, it ran the same (if not, similar) radio network that GM Buses ran.

No the M5000's, there was the 4 ordered for MediaCity, 12 for Altrincham-Bury then the ongoing numbers for the expansions and they were all a little different under the hood.

No the first 12 were definitely all the same and it would seem that at least as far as 3017 were as well. It could be that 3018 onwards have no Phase 1 signalling wiring. The first 2 batches were 8 for Bury Altrincham doubles and then 4 for MCUK. The next order was for Phase 3A.

Why is it that when tram broke down or that like signal problems somewhere is allway on MEN website, yeah when bus broke down or train broke down or even signal problems at Victoria or Piccadilly is never in?

Metrolink fails again: Broken tram at Prestwich brings more delays to commuters

Metrolink passengers are faced even more disruption tonight after another tram failed on the network.

Bosses said a failed tram at Prestwich this afternoon meant commuters were experiencing delays on the Bury and Altrincham lines.

It is understood the tram has been cleared from the line, but there are knock-on delays.

A spokesman said: “Metrolink sincerely apologises for any inconvenience this afternoon.”

A 12-minute service is operating on the line to Eccles and MediaCity, and on the South Manchester Line.

The breakdown is the latest in a series of delays faced by disgruntled passengers.

A tram heading out of Manchester broke down on Mosley Street at 10.25am yesterday, causing delays to other services stuck behind it.

Passengers also faced delays on Tuesday after the points failed at Cornbrook and then Trafford Bar.

Services were also disrupted last week when two trams broke down, one on Tuesday and the other on Wednesday.

Tram bosses have already issued an apology for this week’s disruption.

A spokeswoman for Transport for Greater Manchester, which owns the network, said: "We do understand how frustrating it's been for passengers as there have been a few problems over the last few days which have been un-related. We do always try and get things moving again as quickly as possible.”

Because to be fair, they are happening all the time at the moment.

With a bit of hope the silver lining may be these high profile problems may bring the end of the T68 a little faster.

No the first 12 were definitely all the same and it would seem that at least as far as 3017 were as well. It could be that 3018 onwards have no Phase 1 signalling wiring. The first 2 batches were 8 for Bury Altrincham doubles and then 4 for MCUK. The next order was for Phase 3A.

No, he was complaining that they are different to maintain, three different versions in just the first 20.

Another reason for TMS asap to standardise the M5000s.

I'm getting Tweets from the unoffical Metrolink stating that normal service is running about every 30mins - much more regular than usual.

These are triggered when the official site is updated.

I'm guessing this means someone at Metrolink towers is updating the status on a much more regular basis. Guessing, possibly totally inaccurately, someone at TfGM has requested that RATP are more on the ball and provide more frequent updates to the customers about the state of the service.

I presume the real test will be when a fault occurs and clears and how rapidly they inform us then.

I'm getting Tweets from the unoffical Metrolink stating that normal service is running about every 30mins - much more regular than usual.

These are triggered when the official site is updated.

I'm guessing this means someone at Metrolink towers is updating the status on a much more regular basis. Guessing, possibly totally inaccurately, someone at TfGM has requested that RATP are more on the ball and provide more frequent updates to the customers about the state of the service.

I presume the real test will be when a fault occurs and clears and how rapidly they inform us then.

I suspect this is more to do with the cynicsm of Unofficial Metrolink than
TfGM/RAPT updating more frequently. Why update if nothing's changed?

I suspect this is more to do with the cynicsm of Unofficial Metrolink than
TfGM/RAPT updating more frequently. Why update if nothing's changed?

I think the tweets are automated for when the website updates.dunno.

I suspect this is more to do with the cynicsm of Unofficial Metrolink than
TfGM/RAPT updating more frequently. Why update if nothing's changed?

It reassures passengers that the last message is up to date and accurate. That's the theory, anyway. Didn't work on the BA flight from Miami on Sunday, where the passengers were treated to the "Get ready to ditch" automated message by mistake.

Piccadilly Closure-

Went for a nosy whilst on tour on my last shift, appears they're working on the pointwork/general track in the undercroft as I expected.

Slightly off topic but great vid here of happenings in Blackpool...http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=572141&page=20

We noticed at Bowker Vale yesterday that on the station Building the pillars are installed for the PDI's....but if the station buildings are being demolished then why do they have them? (I would upload a pic i just havent found out how)

We noticed at Bowker Vale yesterday that on the station Building the pillars are installed for the PDI's....but if the station buildings are being demolished then why do they have them? (I would upload a pic i just havent found out how)

Project management fail?

Either that our change of plans after the PID went up 2 years ago.

Metrolink chiefs review plans to replace 'unreliable' older trams after four break down in a fortnight!

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1471553_metrolink-chiefs-review-plans-to-replace-unreliable-older-trams-after-four-break-down-in-a-fortnight

Metrolink chiefs review plans to replace 'unreliable' older trams after four break down in a fortnight!

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1471553_metrolink-chiefs-review-plans-to-replace-unreliable-older-trams-after-four-break-down-in-a-fortnight

Yes, but as usual it doesn't actually say anything that they haven't said before with different words and phrasing does it?

What they need to be saying is that the older trams won't be refurbished, no more modifications will be done. Any cash set aside to refurbish or modify them will immediately be put into use to fit any signalling requirements in the 31 sitting idle at Firswood so that within months there will be noticable improvements before summer sets in and the usual overheating problems arise.

Until TMS works and Mosley Street remains open, then any un modified T68s that are reliable would be coupled together to make the doubles available as required. It means 16 remaining as 8 doubles meaning that at long last the promised capacity increase is realised.
The only downfall to this is not being able to double even more up in the meantime for football matches etc, although inbound there would be no problem, and with the 2 extra lines running (mediacity and Chorlton) then its the same capacity as now if not more.

A while back they magic'd up £24 million to buy 12 new trams, so in the meantime they need to magic up another few hundred grand or whatever it takes to get what they already have working before any new extensions run. Many of the new trams on order aren't required anyway for about 3-4 years so when the T68 replacements arrive then they can be for the airport line.

when bus broke down

When the 192 breaks down you get on the one behind and get on your way that's why. I have never known a bus breaking down to stop all buses on stop running on that route for hours.

http://newsmanc.co.uk/2012/01/23/manchester-man-makes-the-perfect-tram-journey/

^^

Worth a read. Made me laugh anyway.

http://newsmanc.co.uk/2012/01/23/manchester-man-makes-the-perfect-tram-journey/

^^

Worth a read. Made me laugh anyway.

:lol:

That story really made me smile. Especially the last line!

Well that brightened up my day.... Someone with a great sense of humour.....lol

Manchester trams 'damaging city's reputation'
24 January 2012 Last updated at 12:41

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/57239000/jpg/_57239852_53623040.jpg
Transport for Greater Manchester apologised for the disruption and said it was investigating the incidents

Manchester's tram network is "unreliable" and is "damaging the city's reputation and economy", a local MP has said.

Graham Stringer, MP for Broughton and Blackley, said failures on the Metrolink network services over the past week are "unacceptable".

Four trams broke down on the network causing many delays for travellers.

Transport for Greater Manchester apologised for the disruption and said it was investigating the incidents.

Labour MP Mr Stringer said: "It is bad for Manchester's image.

"It is absolutely vital that buses and trams turn up to get people to work.

Read More (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-16699824)

http://www.radiotimes.com/episode/pck2x/confessions-from-the-underground

One of the 'confessions' will be they store dead bodies upright in broom closets until they can be removed.

Read More (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-16699824)

So Stringer decides to pubilicise the problems even further thus damaging the area's reputation even more. What a self serving moron!

Stringer has made no secret of the fact he personally is no fan of Metrolink, but what is annoying is when he uses his political influence to voice his own opinion in relation to this. I think all of us agree that improvements need to take place, but the local politicians need to get behind Metrolink and TfGM to assist them in making it better and bringing the improvements it needs - if they want to moan about it and do nothing else, they belong on the MEN webpages and not in local politics, where they should be doing all they can to restore Metrolinks reputation as a flagship transport system.

I wonder if these same people will be boasting about their involvement in the project when the new extensions are up and running!

Read More (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-16699824)

A politician who has probably never used the Metrolink, let alone at rush hour, is commenting on it. :lol:

Delays at 11pm?!


A 15 minute delay on the Eccles/MediaCity line.

A 12 minute service is operating on the South Manchester Line between Victoria and St Werburgh's Road.
Delays on Services of up to 15 minutes on the bury line.

I know its not metrolink related but what a sight this morning at victoria, a double headed steam train arriving over the far side of the station and it was about 10 carriages long maybe more.

Delays at 11pm?!

As well as thursday evening about 930 to 955pm.

There were quite a few choice comments from the passengers.

Was it any of you on 1018 to Bury this morning?

Talking to a bloke from Worsley and his Polish wife about the trams and related issues?

The things the bloke was coming out with sounded like they were taken from here.

If so, I was sat 2 seats in front of you with the Mrs all the way to Bury.

I know its not metrolink related but what a sight this morning at victoria, a double headed steam train arriving over the far side of the station and it was about 10 carriages long maybe more.

I have seen that going over the Viaduct on the Bury side of Victoria a few times since I moved into the Green Quarter. Only out of the corner of my eye though. Anyone know when/what times it goes through Victoria? I would love to be a bit closer to it when it steams through. Is it related to the East Lancs Railway??

I have seen that going over the Viaduct on the Bury side of Victoria a few times since I moved into the Green Quarter. Only out of the corner of my eye though. Anyone know when/what times it goes through Victoria? I would love to be a bit closer to it when it steams through. Is it related to the East Lancs Railway??

Could be a charter service, I went on one several years ago on the Orient express to Bath it was a superb day out, ( and everyone dressed for Dinner on the way back, defo no jeans or tee shirts) well worth the money.

Could be a charter service, I went on one several years ago on the Orient express to Bath it was a superb day out, ( and everyone dressed for Dinner on the way back, defo no jeans or tee shirts) well worth the money.

I just looked on the ELR website and they have a steam loco up there this weekend.
http://www.eastlancsrailway.org.uk/news/?item=10

As this stretch of line rarely used, it is ideal for the regular charter specials to use it.

I just looked on the ELR website and they have a steam loco up there this weekend.
http://www.eastlancsrailway.org.uk/news/?item=10

They have a number of steam locos up there all the time!

Could be a charter service, I went on one several years ago on the Orient express to Bath it was a superb day out, ( and everyone dressed for Dinner on the way back, defo no jeans or tee shirts) well worth the money.

It was the Winter Cumbrian Mountain Express Victoria to Carlisle via the Settle and Carlisle Line apparently.http://www.uksteam.info/tours/trs12.htm

As this stretch of line rarely used, it is ideal for the regular charter specials to use it.

Which stretch of line is rarely used?

Which stretch of line is rarely used?

Between Guide Bridge and Stockport, or Stockport to Altrincham, the mid Cheshire line, etc.

Are tram drivers allowed to use their phones while driving? It was stationary at the time as the light was on red, but I was still shocked to see a driver very blatantly distracted in the cabin.

Between Guide Bridge and Stockport, or Stockport to Altrincham, the mid Cheshire line, etc.

Stockport to Altrincham has an hourly passenger service each way between Piccadilly and Chester along with a fair number of freight trains. Guide Bridge to Stockport is as you say not heavily used and as is famously known has only booked passenger train per week. It is used for empty stock workings between Newton Heath and South Manchester though.

Are tram drivers allowed to use their phones while driving? It was stationary at the time as the light was on red, but I was still shocked to see a driver very blatantly distracted in the cabin.

They aren't supposed to use mobiles no. Although should the radio not work they may resort to calling Control on a phone I suppose.

It was the Winter Cumbrian Mountain Express Victoria to Carlisle via the Settle and Carlisle Line apparently.http://www.uksteam.info/tours/trs12.htm

Not usually double-headed though. Usually top-and-tailed, with a diesel (47) on the back in case the steam loco fails!

They aren't supposed to use mobiles no. Although should the radio not work they may resort to calling Control on a phone I suppose.

There was a picture posted on Twitter last week of a Metrolink driver playing on his iPhone with his feet up, whilst driving a tram.

EDIT: Here's the picture: https://yfrog.com/oer2haej:iphone

Not usually double-headed though. Usually top-and-tailed, with a diesel (47) on the back in case the steam loco fails!

Last year it was Double Headed with a 47 on the back.....

I know it's a while away but is Metrolink likely to run extra trams for the Stone Roses gigs at Heaton Park? I'm guessing it'll finish around 11pm and 70,000 people to get back into town will be a nightmare if it's only one little tram every 15 minutes until midnight!

Will they run doubles and more frequently to disperse the crowd quicker? How's it worked at previous Heaton Park gigs?

Last year it was Double Headed with a 47 on the back.....

Isn't the 47 on the back to provide the electric heating and auxiliary supplies?

Not usually double-headed though. Usually top-and-tailed, with a diesel (47) on the back in case the steam loco fails!

All the currently advertised "Cumbrian Mountains Express" workings are advertised as double headers

All the currently advertised "Cumbrian Mountains Express" workings are advertised as double headers

What i saw this morning was a double header and was an awesome sight to see, it made everyone on the platform turn and comment even the inspectors that were there. Just wish i had been closer and had a decent camera or video camera with me

Isn't the 47 on the back to provide the electric heating and auxiliary supplies?

A lot of the time yes, along with air break supply if the steamer doesn't have its own compressor (not all do. They just use the pressure in the main res pipe to release the brakes)

But if the stock is dual heat and has dynamos for lighting then it's not needed

I know it's a while away but is Metrolink likely to run extra trams for the Stone Roses gigs at Heaton Park? I'm guessing it'll finish around 11pm and 70,000 people to get back into town will be a nightmare if it's only one little tram every 15 minutes until midnight!

Will they run doubles and more frequently to disperse the crowd quicker? How's it worked at previous Heaton Park gigs?

When Oasis played they closed Heaton Park station altogether. I assume the rationale is that it forces people to walk to the next nearest stops, dividing the crowd up and stopping them all from arriving in one huge mass, and risking crushing, etc. It also meant that some people who would have used Metrolink to get to the city centre if Heaton Park had been open (like me), just walked instead.

I assume they will run doubles on a 6 min frequency, but I'm just speculating.

When Oasis played they closed Heaton Park station altogether. I assume the rationale is that it forces people to walk to the next nearest stops, dividing the crowd up and stopping them all from arriving in one huge mass, and risking crushing, etc. It also meant that some people who would have used Metrolink to get to the city centre if Heaton Park had been open (like me), just walked instead.

I assume they will run doubles on a 6 min frequency, but I'm just speculating.

the decision as to whether to close a stop or not is generally made by the Police on safety and security grounds. Heaton Park isn't really that suitable for large crowds.

What i saw this morning was a double header and was an awesome sight to see, it made everyone on the platform turn and comment even the inspectors that were there. Just wish i had been closer and had a decent camera or video camera with me

I'll bet it turned a few heads yes. This video give a flavour of the spectacle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LelsaBB01XI

I'll bet it turned a few heads yes. This video give a flavour of the spectacle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LelsaBB01XI

Yup that gives a bit of the feeling of what it was like and is the same train i saw.

Great video, over the weekend in the summer months I get the joy of seeing the steam trains passing by at my local station it is a great sight to see for sure.

They aren't supposed to use mobiles no. Although should the radio not work they may resort to calling Control on a phone I suppose.

Nah this guy was just texting, got it out, used it for a minute, put it back in his pocked. Did it a few times. I wrote down the tram number and the time of day it was just in case it would be worth reporting it to TFGM but obviously it's not that big a deal :)

When Oasis played they closed Heaton Park station altogether. I assume the rationale is that it forces people to walk to the next nearest stops, dividing the crowd up and stopping them all from arriving in one huge mass, and risking crushing, etc. It also meant that some people who would have used Metrolink to get to the city centre if Heaton Park had been open (like me), just walked instead.

I assume they will run doubles on a 6 min frequency, but I'm just speculating.

As I recall they ran trams well after the end of service to get people back to Manchester from Bowker Vale.

As I recall they ran trams well after the end of service to get people back to Manchester from Bowker Vale.

That's right. The exit was off Middleton Road not Bury Old Road which purposely tunneled people to Bowker Vale, not Heaton Park.

As said, it is felt that Heaton Park station was not adequately safe for huge crowds. It certainly is not now which with the temporary entrances.

I would not know if the re building wil be completed by the concerts or whether it will be suitable. Not that I care I will open my window and enjoy it for free.

Nah this guy was just texting, got it out, used it for a minute, put it back in his pocked. Did it a few times. I wrote down the tram number and the time of day it was just in case it would be worth reporting it to TFGM but obviously it's not that big a deal :)

It actually is a big deal. If its such a crime to use your mobile driving your car just think about how many more people he's putting at risk whilst driving a tram or bus.

Lol, Im getting Nexus Metro adds viewing this page!

They've been doing Driver training today in the City Centre, a tram with about 6/7 driver's going around. Presumably just starting to get the drivers from late last year trained on the lines we have, but who knows!

the decision as to whether to close a stop or not is generally made by the Police on safety and security grounds. Heaton Park isn't really that suitable for large crowds.

Nothing to do with the Police, the event Safety Advisory Group (SAG) accept advice from all parties, Metrolink advise them on how they can manage, and they accept or not.

It will be the same set up as Oasis as it worked well

Nah this guy was just texting, got it out, used it for a minute, put it back in his pocked. Did it a few times. I wrote down the tram number and the time of day it was just in case it would be worth reporting it to TFGM but obviously it's not that big a deal :)


Oh yes it is :bash:

It is a big deal BUT whats the worsr that can happen assuming block signalling and the driver knowing roughly where he is in the block? Its not like on the road if it was a coach driving doing it and veering lanes or into omcoming traffic is it?

It is a big deal BUT whats the worsr that can happen assuming block signalling and the driver knowing roughly where he is in the block? Its not like on the road if it was a coach driving doing it and veering lanes or into omcoming traffic is it?

Errr...No ifs, no buts, he is responsible for the safety of his vehicle and all those aboard it. He should be concentrating 100% on his job, his attitude is unacceptable. I hope he was identified from that picture and sacked.

I agree no ifs no buts - and he absolutely should be reprimanded BUT (and I am doing the devils advocate thing here) in the context of Metrolink as compared to Road Vehicles...

I agree no ifs no buts - and he absolutely should be reprimanded BUT (and I am doing the devils advocate thing here) in the context of Metrolink as compared to Road Vehicles...

Would your assessment be the same if he missed seeing an obstruction on the track and that went on to cause a derailment? Block signalling only protects against tram on tram incidents, the driver is responsible for keeping vigilance and minimising the chance of incidents. Remember the tram unlike a train is capable of stopping more often than not if the driver sees something on the track.

Would your assessment be the same if he missed seeing an obstruction on the track and that went on to cause a derailment? Block signalling only protects against tram on tram incidents, the driver is responsible for keeping vigilance and minimising the chance of incidents. Remember the tram unlike a train is capable of stopping more often than not if the driver sees something on the track.

How does the Docklands Light Railway manage to do without drivers then?

How does the Docklands Light Railway manage to do without drivers then?

by running grade-separated throughout; no level crossings, no street sharing with vehichles, no pedestrian access across route.

^^ and good detection of alien objects in the way.

The first time I used the DLR (we're talking mid-90s), my grandparents, brother and I were at the front (as it's cool and we were in the 6-10 sort of age range). Heading north from Island Gardens, we stopped about ten foot away from a football that had landed on the viaduct and was touching the track. We were stopped for a couple of minutes and then reversed back into the station. Annoyingly, in the wait for the train to leave again, we'd detrained, so lost our front seat. The word was 'something on the line' causing the delay and when we passed the same spot, the football had gone.

by running grade-separated throughout; no level crossings, no street sharing with vehichles, no pedestrian access across route.

They do have problems with obstructions on the track occasionally. They make good use of CCTV as well. At the start of each day they have to operate a sweep train manually driven for a return trip on each line before a driverless train can run just to prove the line clear. There was an accident a while ago where a guy was killed after falling onto the track at a station. The Control Room were alerted of someone on the track by a member of the public but allowed a train in under automatic control having checked by CCTV whether a report was true. In the darkness they failed to see the guy. RAIB were quite critical of the way they operated in those circumstances.

So what if he goes through a red light on the block signalling sections, the brakes come on and throws everyone standing and perhaps sitting ,forward? They could be killed exactly the same as in any other road vehicle.

And, the tram drivers drive under the same rules as any other roaduser, they are not a special case.

However, I really do no approve of photos, videos ,times etc being given on this or any other internet site. If someone has a problem, then it is their decision whether to report it or not. It also narrows down what they want you to see or hear and is biased,and is not always the full situation. Relating a general story is a different thing. I feel it's a very cowardly way of dealing with a situation, if not bullying,and harrassement to put photos of someone on the WWW without their permission first. Even if it's wrong, and if you feel so strongly about it,make a complaint, and let it be dealt with by the company. Who is perfect? Would you like it? Personally, I would like to see the photo removed from here.

Seems strange a few weeks ago when I suggested in a joke that if TfGM had to admit that they had bought the wrong signalling kit and that heads should roll, especially as it may have been millions of pounds of public money (my money as well as everyone elses), that is was considered a bit over the top and yet the baying has started to get someone sacked , which is what it will be in this case. Remembering of course that signalling is, as well as brakes is the most important thing on a tram. Were the controllers at Queens Road sacked for allowing 2 trams to run in opposite directions towards each other on the same stretch of track save time? No!
Double standards there I think, but then some sad person wasn't there clutching their dummy, sorry,mobile phone looking for their 5 minutes of fame I suppose.

Not double standards at all, we know the tram driver was contravening safety policies and possibly the law.

We have nothing whatsoever to suggest anyone at TfGM has done anything wrong whatsoever with regards TMS and Thales.

They do have problems with obstructions on the track occasionally. They make good use of CCTV as well. At the start of each day they have to operate a sweep train manually driven for a return trip on each line before a driverless train can run just to prove the line clear. There was an accident a while ago where a guy was killed after falling onto the track at a station. The Control Room were alerted of someone on the track by a member of the public but allowed a train in under automatic control having checked by CCTV whether a report was true. In the darkness they failed to see the guy. RAIB were quite critical of the way they operated in those circumstances.

In a way Freel, it does make the sound of driverless tube trains without platform screens quite questionable, especially with the amount of people who try to commit suicide or fall of the platform. Even one is too much, and there may be no chance of anyone at all making an effort to stop the train making the end situation even worse.

Manchester City Council are launching a Manchester Loves February campaign, as part of I Love Manchester launched last year.

One part of this monthly campaign is money-saving deals on public transport with 'Metrolink bosses understood to be finalising a deal for passengers that will be announced to coincide with the launch.'

What this will be, we'll have to wait and see. Could be discounted travel, competition to win free tickets or possibly free travel for everybody on the Metrolink for a day.

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1472450_month-of-bargains-for-manchester-loves-february-campaign

I would say odds are a free day, though they have given away season tickets to coincide with the food festival.

So what if he goes through a red light on the block signalling sections, the brakes come on and throws everyone standing and perhaps sitting ,forward? They could be killed exactly the same as in any other road vehicle.

And, the tram drivers drive under the same rules as any other roaduser, they are not a special case.

However, I really do no approve of photos, videos ,times etc being given on this or any other internet site. If someone has a problem, then it is their decision whether to report it or not. It also narrows down what they want you to see or hear and is biased,and is not always the full situation. Relating a general story is a different thing. I feel it's a very cowardly way of dealing with a situation, if not bullying,and harrassement to put photos of someone on the WWW without their permission first. Even if it's wrong, and if you feel so strongly about it,make a complaint, and let it be dealt with by the company. Who is perfect? Would you like it? Personally, I would like to see the photo removed from here.

Seems strange a few weeks ago when I suggested in a joke that if TfGM had to admit that they had bought the wrong signalling kit and that heads should roll, especially as it may have been millions of pounds of public money (my money as well as everyone elses), that is was considered a bit over the top and yet the baying has started to get someone sacked , which is what it will be in this case. Remembering of course that signalling is, as well as brakes is the most important thing on a tram. Were the controllers at Queens Road sacked for allowing 2 trams to run in opposite directions towards each other on the same stretch of track save time? No!
Double standards there I think, but then some sad person wasn't there clutching their dummy, sorry,mobile phone looking for their 5 minutes of fame I suppose.

No double standards at all. We don't actually know what happened to staff involved in the incident you refer to and it is not necessarily instant dismissal as an investigation would have to take place into the circumstances. I am sure however MRDL would be interested in the report and photo. I don't condone knowing about the incident and not reporting it.

I've also seen a tram driver with his feet up playing with a mobile phone on an evening service. It was dark, so I can't tell if it was that guy, although presumably it was.

I decided not to report it because I bizarrely figured it was a one-off, but clearly it's happened a few times and if I see it again I think I'll note it down and contact TfGM. I hate to be such a jobsworth about it but it's just unprofessional and irresponsible to do this, especially as so many would kill for this sort of job, especially these days.

No double standards at all. We don't actually know what happened to staff involved in the incident you refer to and it is not necessarily instant dismissal as an investigation would have to take place into the circumstances. I am sure however MRDL would be interested in the report and photo. I don't condone knowing about the incident and not reporting it.

Whilst I totally agree with you, the correct way of making a complaint is to make it to the company involved and let them deal with it.

The unacceptable way is to put pictures on the WWW and let a kangaroo court make decisions and assumptions based on the sometimes biased and limited information that the complainant wishes you to see. BTW if this is true the driver will be sacked, no warnings, also I do know the outcome of the other incident, but then again, it's not going on here or any other www site as I don't think it's appropriate to do so. I think it's completely sad and wrong to use the WWW to harrass people before making a complaint as it could in some cases predudice the outcome, one of the examples being the disabled man who made a complaint on youtube about the network rail employee refusing to put the ramp down at Piccadilly station last year and the inevitable outcry that came before the incident was reported. There was no action taken as he hadn't done anything wrong. It's just WRONG.....

Out of interest how on earth is discussing the driver a kangaroo court?

What influence does this discussion possibly have on the result of any action taken by RATP against the driver?

Of course it's a kangaroo court where the public has declared someone guilty before a complaint has even been made in the correct manner to the appropriate company involved.

Perhaps some have forgotten about the woman who went to the MEN and got her face slapped all over the front page declaring she had been chucked off a bus for breast feeding her baby and even lied about reporting it to the comapny invloved. It hit the papers, the interent and even newspapers in the US till the country was baying for his dismissal etc. All she was after was compo and no complaint was ever actually made.

Every second of CCTV was watched and the only identification made was from her picture in the MEN and the driver actually helping her onto the bus with the pram. She never came forward or answered any letters etc.
How would you have felt if you were the driver involved or any of his friends and family and the first you knew was via the media? These people make me sick. So far, that's two examples of how wrong it is.

So we're going to have to agree to disagree.

Who has found who guilty though?

As far as I can see all that has been said is that unless there is good reason he should not be using his phone.

A couple of years ago we discussed the cars getting impaled on the bollards at Market St that went all over the media.

People on here, like the BBC, Sky, ITV all said that the car drivers were in the wrong.

What is the difference?

I'm not talking about this situation in isolation. I'm talking about in general.

Funny you mentioning those barriers.This morning I was talking to someone about the barriers on Cross Street. Apparently all the buses have been diverted for a few weeks due to them not working. He said that if nobody had hit them recently then they wouldn't be maintaining them....lol
So when the tram comes along there what's the chances of the barriers going up and only allowing trams through. When it was a bus street the general traffic blatantly ignored this in the knowledge there was never going to be a penalty, hence the barriers. How will they police it better for the trams?

Ach! I sat behind a driver today who had his feet up and was reading a newspaper.




Then he put it away and off we went :)

News on Metrolink promotion as part of Manchester Loves February campaign. Basically, it's two for one with a voucher after 6pm for people travelling into the city centre.

Metrolink - 2 passengers to travel at the same time with one ticket and a free voucher - Offer is valid for the four Tuesdays in February 2012 (The voucher is only valid on the date of purchase of ticket. Inbound travel to City Centre (Victoria to Deansgate/Castlefield). Offer valid for tickets purchased after 1800 at non city centre stops. The free voucher will be available to download on the website www.metrolink.co.uk

http://www.visitmanchester.com/feb

NTSB? How very American.

I'm inclined to agree with Motortownman
The evidence on the face of it seems to suggest wrong doing but my initial feelings are that the person taking the photograph is in the wrong. If you feel that strongly then report it. Don't start posting on here, publishing photo's for all to see without giving the guy being accused the chance to represent himself. If you were making a complaint/grievence about a colleague you would be reprimanded over doing something such as posting on the net. Of course, in this context you can't be reprimanded but the morality and principle remains the same.

London Underground documentry on, staff saying the 'normal service operating' announcement is a load of bull as they know that on the ground theres been an incident or all the services are running late. The announcement is only changed when a certain percentage of services are running late and is centrally rather than locally updated.

Aye, I watched it too Zero. Should be compulsory viewing for all the MEN begrudgers who prattle on about how wonderful the Underground is.

Very few people who use the tube or DLR on a regular basis holds out in the same esteem as the Metrolink bashers do.

The only thing I didn't like about that program was the actors, that women was walking around shaking like a shitting dog as if some crazy killer was hunting her down.

London Underground documentry on, staff saying the 'normal service operating' announcement is a load of bull as they know that on the ground theres been an incident or all the services are running late. The announcement is only changed when a certain percentage of services are running late and is centrally rather than locally updated.

The thing with this is if you arrive at the Tube and you expect to find a Tube every 4mins and they are all running late and you have a 5min wait then that's a good service as you get pretty much what you expect. However if you find a 8min wait when your expecting 4mins that it's not a good service. It's got nothing to do with actual services it's about the experience now of what a person off the street is presented with if that makes sense.

The definition of what a good service is so vague then it's almost pointless. It's just what you expect to get is what matters. To most Tube user actual trains running late or drivers late is meaningless if they see what is expected. It's an operational thing. However on the mainline is very different with trains timed at every point.

Well what was said was that the central line information (which is distributed through various channels from one office) is only updated if a certain percentage of services are operating 15 minutes or more late, so for example a 15 minute or more gap on one part of the line wouldnt trigger a public information update if services were alright elsewhere on the line. This is akin to no warning of delays on the Altrincham line being made because the services to Bury were operating fine at that moment.

I thought it was an excellent programme

Hope that people are on hand to take some snow-pictures of the trams and tramway if the predicted snowfall comes tomorrow! :banana:

Well what was said was that the central line information (which is distributed through various channels from one office) is only updated if a certain percentage of services are operating 15 minutes or more late, so for example a 15 minute or more gap on one part of the line wouldnt trigger a public information update if services were alright elsewhere on the line. This is akin to no warning of delays on the Altrincham line being made because the services to Bury were operating fine at that moment.

It comes from Network Operations (actually really nice guys up there), but as I said its how you see it on the ground. LUL have said themselves it's based on how the public will see it and all Tube lines run the same system. As you put if there is a large gap, then it would change but a 15min gap on the Tube for the most part is like an hour without a Metrolink, something major would have occurred. A gap of 15mins would be closer to severe disruption with LUL.

Good service - normal running, extra minute or so is also under this
Minor disruption - you will notice longer journey times, you may want to use alternate routes
Severe disruption - avoid the line, major delays

You may have trains running late but the public gets trains within the expected time then it a good service despite how late they are running. TfL has moved away from operational lead info and is now giving out experience based information.

Actually an incident causing major delays on one part of a line would be shown on all parts of the network. More than once they've announced minor delays and severe delays on the same Tube line and show this in the website.

However it doesn't alway follow it's own rules, as, for example this morning I expected a 4min service on my trip on the Northern Line and was greeted to a 10min service while announcements of good service was being made by the local station staff, also on the new rainbow boards and on the web.

Hope that people are on hand to take some snow-pictures of the trams and tramway if the predicted snowfall comes tomorrow! :banana:

Thats if the trams continue once its here lol

Was great fun year before last, stations under massive quantity of snow.

Thats if the trams continue once its here lol

Glass half full...lets all give up!

Breakdown at deansgate castlefields and now I've just walked past a metrolink crew fixing points at Piccadilly gardens...massive backlog of bury bury Eccles. Lol. Looks like points are frozen or something. He's currently using something that looks like a garden rake without the handle to dig around.

Bury trams diverting to altrincham. Looks like the points are stuck towards Mosley street then. Bury seemed to have escaped break downs recently....

Sorry for the bombardment of updates but it's quite amusing watching these people scratch their heads. 7 trams now squashed together at piccadilly gardens.

Breakdown at deansgate castlefields and now I've just walked past a metrolink crew fixing points at Piccadilly gardens...massive backlog of bury bury Eccles. Lol. Looks like points are frozen or something. He's currently using something that looks like a garden rake without the handle to dig around.

Out of interest reeces.... was it a T68 that broke down??

Out of interest reeces.... was it a T68 that broke down??

No idea about the breakdown to be honest, they were announcing that over the Tannoy for a good while and I saw that written on the metrolink app this morning (about 11 although it's still saying that now). I kinda hope it was though, as it will help towards the cause of getting rid of them even sooner. Fingers crossed it wasn't a new one.

Point problem at Broadway now.

Seems to be a lot of points issues in the icy weather today.

Could be a charter service, I went on one several years ago on the Orient express to Bath it was a superb day out, ( and everyone dressed for Dinner on the way back, defo no jeans or tee shirts) well worth the money.

I sometimes go to Bath Spa from Bristol Temple Meads, usually on the delayed Westbury class 150 set. It's not the same.

Point problem at Broadway now.

Seems to be a lot of points issues in the icy weather today.

It's rumoured that it's a bit more of a problem than a points failure at Broadway. Not sure what though but they've put a bus service on between Eccles and MediaCityUK.

Freel - any rumours on the overheard conversation that was reported on here a couple of days ago and any possible implications?

The suggestion that EML is opening soon with the undercroft no longer being the turning point, rather Sheffield St.

From memory, do the traffic lights not require TMS, as such, this suggests some sort of confidence in TMS if true???

Freel - any rumours on the overheard conversation that was reported on here a couple of days ago and any possible implications?

The suggestion that EML is opening soon with the undercroft no longer being the turning point, rather Sheffield St.

From memory, do the traffic lights not require TMS, as such, this suggests some sort of confidence in TMS if true???

I've not heard anything no. The traffic lights need part of the TMS yes, but that seems to work reasonably well on the Eccles Line. The problem would be Sheffield Street but the conversation quoted seemed to indicate that some form of manual working would be used didn't it.

Possibly, grapsing for straws at the moment.

Bury line suspended due to weather conditions.

I'm not getting overexcited for the EML opening soon. I remember Metrolink said that they were pushing forward to open Oldham ASAP due to the lack of rail link. I discussed this with a driver and he said he hadn't heard anything about the EML opening soon. Sorry to drop spirits over it :/

It's rumoured that it's a bit more of a problem than a points failure at Broadway. Not sure what though but they've put a bus service on between Eccles and MediaCityUK.

Is that hinting at what I think it might be hinting at - I sincerely hope not! :ohno:

Bury line suspended due to weather conditions.

From Metrolink website:
04/02/2012 - 19:20 hrs Tempoprary Suspension of Bury Line
Metrolink Services

The Bury line is temporarily suspended due to a technical problem caused by severe weather conditions.
Passengers may use Metrolink tickets and passes on the 135 bus service.

Due to a technical problem in the Broadway area, services between Broadway and Eccles have been temporarily suspended.

A tram service between MediaCityUK and Piccadilly is operating.

Metrolink are operating a replacement bus service between MediaCityUK and Eccles until further notice.Metrolink tickets and passes will be accepted on this service.

Metrolink apologises for any inconvenince this may cause.

http://www.metrolink.co.uk/todaysdisruptions/index.asp?id=25

Thats if the trams continue once its here lol

Honestly i was joking when i posted this hope i wasnt a jinx

Bury running again but with delays.

Tram stranded at Broadway after wheels disconnected from track when passing the junction. MediaCityUK to Eccles service disrupted.

https://twitter.com/#!/quaysnews/status/165861810849841153

Bury line suspended due to weather conditions.

Bury Line back but with delays. 19:40.

Tram stranded at Broadway after wheels disconnected from track when passing the junction. MediaCityUK to Eccles service disrupted.

https://twitter.com/#!/quaysnews/status/165861810849841153

Do you think they might mean 'derailed' :bash:

OfficialTfGM TfGM
#Metrolink services on the Bury line are now back up and running. Compacted snow affected a set of points. Apologies to anyone affected.
1 minute ago

At least it wasn't a tram fault!! Wonder if it was the depot crossover or at Bury??

Bury Line back but with delays. 19:40.

TfGM's Twitter feed says 'Compacted snow affected a set of points.' Tickets still valid on the 135

http://twitter.com/#!/OfficialTfGM/status/165884221829812224
http://twitter.com/#!/OfficialTfGM/status/165884587027861505

I'm not getting overexcited for the EML opening soon. I remember Metrolink said that they were pushing forward to open Oldham ASAP due to the lack of rail link. I discussed this with a driver and he said he hadn't heard anything about the EML opening soon. Sorry to drop spirits over it :/

No I agree overheard conversations have to be treated with great caution. I would expect Oldham to be a much higher priority than Ethiad Campus or whatever its called. Droylsden is way off being ready yet. There's a minimum of a months work just to wire up to there before any substation commissioning or any other form of testing.

19:40 hrs Suspension of Eccles line

Metrolink Services

Passengers on the Bury line will experience delays due to a earlier fault caused by the severe weather.
Passengers may use Metrolink tickets and passes on the 135 bus service.

Due to a technical problem in the Broadway area, services between Broadway and Eccles have been temporarily suspended.

A tram service between MediaCityUK and Piccadilly is operating.

Metrolink are operating a replacement bus service between MediaCityUK and Eccles until further notice.Metrolink tickets and passes will be accepted on this service.

Metrolink apologises for any inconvenince this may cause


I'm surprise that Chorlton and Altrincham line is not been affected by weather?

Rain in Sale, snowed this morning but no snow lying on the ground now.

Freel - any rumours on the overheard conversation that was reported on here a couple of days ago and any possible implications?

The suggestion that EML is opening soon with the undercroft no longer being the turning point, rather Sheffield St.

From memory, do the traffic lights not require TMS, as such, this suggests some sort of confidence in TMS if true???

They said few weeks ago that Oldham line will be next new line to opened, so unless they open line to Mumps then week or two later the open line to Velopark?

Duplicate post deleted

I wouldn't take anything for granted, pretty sure they are playing things as they change.

Is the curreny date for the Oldham line not autumn 2012?

Also, just from the untrained eye the EML looks a lot more ready than the ORL.

I wouldn't take anything for granted, pretty sure they are playing things as they change.

Is the curreny date for the Oldham line not autumn 2012?

Also, just from the untrained eye the EML looks a lot more ready than the ORL.

Last time I hear it was June/July when Oldham line might open

I wouldn't take anything for granted, pretty sure they are playing things as they change.

Is the curreny date for the Oldham line not autumn 2012?

Also, just from the untrained eye the EML looks a lot more ready than the ORL.

No ORL is virtually finished as far as Mumps and trams are running right through from Queens Road depot occasionally. Irk Valley junction still needs finishing but a single weekend would see that done.
EML is in a similar state as far as Velopark but given the shortage of suitably equipped trams ORL is a better prospect. The June/July date quoted by Andrew came from an Oldham Council meeting and I would treat it with the same caution as all politicians statements:ohno::ohno:

So it appears it was what I thought it was at Broadway - oops! Hope it isn't too serious and can be sorted quickly before the MEN start their usual reports, highlighting Metrolink's failings, but not mentioning buses, cars and trains and the problems they have.

Was amazed to see a story about First buses on their site today, but the first comment summed up my thoughts exactly!

I do like reading comments people put on Oldham Chronicle about Metrolink :lol:

http://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/news-features/8/news-headlines/66208/tram-workers-in-line-of-fire

I do like reading comments people put on Oldham Chronicle about Metrolink :lol:

http://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/news-features/8/news-headlines/66208/tram-workers-in-line-of-fire

Oldham has been in decline for years and hopefully Metrolink will help regenerate it. I guess it will all be forgotten in a couple of years.
Anyway I suppose this discussion should really be on the extensions thread.

^^^

Typical insular small town mentality. Sounds like Royston vasey.

Passengers may experience significant delays on all services due to severe weather conditions.

"Severe" You have to laugh.

How will trams get to Oldham and Rochdale when there is a light dusting of snow?

"Severe" You have to laugh.

How will trams get to Oldham and Rochdale when there is a light dusting of snow?

Perhaps you need to get out a bit, there a lot more than a light dusting here in Ashton and Oldham right now. Its been snowing continuously since around 12 midday.

Piccadilly Spur has not long reopened, was sat in Burger King watching them melt out the ice with a torch and a tonne of antifreeze. 1st tram passed over them Not In Service, the next one straight after was back running as a Bury tram, then the next straight off to Altrincham. Was impressed with how quick they got it all running again after it was melted out! :banana:

Piccadilly Spur has not long reopened, was sat in Burger King watching them melt out the ice with a torch and a tonne of antifreeze. 1st tram passed over them Not In Service, the next one straight after was back running as a Bury tram, then the next straight off to Altrincham. Was impressed with how quick they got it all running again after it was melted out! :banana:

That's taken quite a while to get fixed then. I commented this afternoon about that set of points being stuck.

Piccadilly Spur has not long reopened, was sat in Burger King watching them melt out the ice with a torch and a tonne of antifreeze. 1st tram passed over them Not In Service, the next one straight after was back running as a Bury tram, then the next straight off to Altrincham. Was impressed with how quick they got it all running again after it was melted out! :banana:

And that is the essence of it - we all know Metrolink has its problem, but it is also clear the people working on the ground are mainly doing the best they can with the kit they have to provide us with a good service. When it goes wrong, it inconveniences people, but sometimes we should perhaps spare a thought for those who get it going again for us. Sounds like this evening is proving to be challenging - glad I've stayed at home this evening.

Perhaps you need to get out a bit, there a lot more than a light dusting here in Ashton and Oldham right now. Its been snowing continuously since around 12 midday.

I'm not specifically having a go at Metrolink, but just this country in general when it snows.

Were an embarrassment really.

That's taken quite a while to get fixed then. I commented this afternoon about that set of points being stuck.

They got working again earlier... I saw a Picc bound tram a few hours ago. I'm guessing they froze over again since. (or another set of points, or even just the opposite point blade)

I'm not specifically having a go at Metrolink, but just this country in general when it snows.

Were an embarrassment really.

I agree, a bit of snow and ALL transport comes to a halt.... look at the list of bus services that are cancelled/rerouted :bash::bash::bash:

Even the busy, main route, buses are suspended....

That's taken quite a while to get fixed then. I commented this afternoon about that set of points being stuck.

What makes you think they have been out of use all that time. There was no mention of problems late afternoon or early evening until the Broadway problem happened. By the way I understand the tram involved at Broadway has returned to Queens Road. No details though.

As Andymark says spare a thought for all those working out there in all conditions, I know i've done it.

I'm not specifically having a go at Metrolink, but just this country in general when it snows.

Were an embarrassment really.

The problem with this country is that everyone expects to carry on regardless of what nature throws at us. People need to accept that snow and ice will cause problems. Frozen water is hard and also slippery! Grit doesn't work unless there is sufficient traffic to work it into the frozen snow. its no good expecting a gritter to drop salt and melt fallen snow. Tramway points in the street are fitted with heaters but they can't cope with frozen slush falling off buses into the blades. Why can't people just adapt to the conditions. Disruption this week hasn't been restricted to the UK its been across Europe.

The embarrassment is the continual wingeing.

Ive been in Picadilly area today, got into picadilly from the train and told to walk to Market Street, we hung around the Gardens watching them try to dig out the set of points that split the Bury service's and the Deansgate services, 1023 had been detrained by the points indicator, 2006 and 1013 had had there passengers kicked off in the Gardens stop.
2 vans showed up and played around inside the electronic boxes.

What makes you think they have been out of use all that time. There was no mention of problems late afternoon or early evening until the Broadway problem happened. By the way I understand the tram involved at Broadway has returned to Queens Road. No details though.

As Andymark says spare a thought for all those working out there in all conditions, I know i've done it.

Oh maybe they got them working again and they refroze or something but I was in picc gardens earlier and the points were stuck (about 2pm-ish I think) all bury trams being diverted to altrincham. There were 7 trams squashed together at picc gardens at one point.

I agree, a bit of snow and ALL transport comes to a halt.... look at the list of bus services that are cancelled/rerouted :bash::bash::bash:

Even the busy, main route, buses are suspended....

I bet you'd be embarrassed if you tried to drive a bus sideways down Mill Lane in Haughton Green last evening not knowing where you were going to end up in and if you were actually going to stop though:lol::lol:

As you may see it's just after 5am and I have another day of stress ahead not knowing what's going to happen, luckily, most passengers realise their journey will be longer, delayed or diverted.
It doesn't help to hear comments like that kriis, no really it doesn't.:ohno: What happened to the days when people used to say " God, am I glad to see you? Thanks!" Long gone me thinks.

I bet you'd be embarrassed if you tried to drive a bus sideways down Mill Lane in Haughton Green last evening not knowing where you were going to end up in and if you were actually going to stop though:lol::lol:

As you may see it's just after 5am and I have another day of stress ahead not knowing what's going to happen, luckily, most passengers realise their journey will be longer, delayed or diverted.
It doesn't help to hear comments like that kriis, no really it doesn't.:ohno: What happened to the days when people used to say " God, am I glad to see you? Thanks!" Long gone me thinks.

Well I'm sorry if I offended you but how I mean is there never used to be this panic when there was a snowfall. I have a friend from Finland who lives in both countries at various points of the year and he tells me how embarrassed he is at how England copes with what is a light snowfall to him. It is currently -25C in Helsinki and a lot more snow than there is here and, according to HKL's website, there are no reported disruptions on their tram system. :bash:

There are no disruptions to our tram system at the moment either.

The question is what happens when they have a large down pour of snow?

They may have put the investment into their system so it can cope much better than the UK systems as they get so much more snow than we do. But is it really worth another 10-20pence on each ticket so we have the kit to clear the snow that falls a couple of times a year?

There are no disruptions to our tram system at the moment either.

The question is what happens when they have a large down pour of snow?

They may have put the investment into their system so it can cope much better than the UK systems as they get so much more snow than we do. But is it really worth another 10-20pence on each ticket so we have the kit to clear the snow that falls a couple of times a year?

I'm not just on about the trams.
Ask the people who were stranded in the city centre last night because all their buses had been suspended. Which no doubt resulted in more traffic on roads, making it more dangerous, when they had to ask people to drive to the city centre for a lift, and back....

Wonder who made he decision to can the buses?

Somebody in authority in a public body or someone in a private commercial organisation making the decision for totally different reasons?

Well I'm sorry if I offended you but how I mean is there never used to be this panic when there was a snowfall. I have a friend from Finland who lives in both countries at various points of the year and he tells me how embarrassed he is at how England copes with what is a light snowfall to him. It is currently -25C in Helsinki and a lot more snow than there is here and, according to HKL's website, there are no reported disruptions on their tram system. :bash:

I agree entirely.

Probably fear of litigation these days thanks to the rise of no win no fee claims that didn't exist in the good old days.

The whole country comes to a grinding halt when something like this happens, its the usual attitude of "we dont/wont get that type of weather here", well the last couple of years has proved this to be wrong, we are just not prepared for it, in Canada, many parts for the US, Scandanavia, are all well prepared for the Winter and carry on just about as normal, but we bury our heads in the sand (or in the case snow) and hope it wont happen.

Wonder who made he decision to can the buses?

Somebody in authority in a public body or someone in a private commercial organisation making the decision for totally different reasons?

The no 67 (First) was running, on time, this morning.

Probably fear of litigation these days thanks to the rise of no win no fee claims that didn't exist in the good old days.


You're right there. I know everyone latches on to the dreaded 'elf and safety' phrase but the legislation does make it harder to justify keeping services running. The company has to take into account its 'Duty of Care' to its employees and therefore if there is a risk of accidents causing injury they will make a decision to suspend services based on reports from the staff out there actually experiencing the problems.

Where I lived in Ashton in the 1950/60s it wasn't unusual for the bus services to be suspended during winter snow falls, they were turned back short about a mile from the final terminus and people had to walk the last bit, no-one complained they just got on with it! We are all too wrapped up in the culture of expecting someone else to do everything for us instead of getting off our backsides and helping ourselves.

Rant over!

The embarrassment is the continual wingeing.

I'm fed up moaning about whingers! Your point is well made, Freel. I'm certain the trams, buses, etc would have carried on had they been able. You don't need, either, to imagine the headlines when someone gets hurt after a bus accident caused by ice, because we have seen them before. They never compliment the driver for trying.

Me, I took the dog for an invigorating walk, then turned up the (excellent) central heating here at Dunwhingin.

Well I'm sorry if I offended you but how I mean is there never used to be this panic when there was a snowfall. I have a friend from Finland who lives in both countries at various points of the year and he tells me how embarrassed he is at how England copes with what is a light snowfall to him. It is currently -25C in Helsinki and a lot more snow than there is here and, according to HKL's website, there are no reported disruptions on their tram system. :bash:

I'm not offended at all and there wasn't a panic yesterday from what I saw. I'm thinking that you maybe don't know what it feels like to be driving a very long, wide vehicle that may weigh up to 15 tonnes when full up and with an automatic gearbox! :lol: Try getting that up and down hills or even cornering and see what happens, and with every eye watching you and hoping you get them there safely!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSskfXqo6sg

However over a foot of snow had fallen in some areas yesterday. Some services were rerouted for a short while then when the snow cleared went back to normal, and some weren't. At one stage yesterday, I had to miss a whole section of route out because of selfish car parking. Normally, the turn may have been possible but with a struggle, but then again, maybe not. There was no way I was sliding round a corner downhill between two illegally parked cars,so I missed it out, and told the depot. Later, apparently the next driver did the same. Someone was sent out to check it and it was withdrawn till end of service.

You're right there. I know everyone latches on to the dreaded 'elf and safety' phrase but the legislation does make it harder to justify keeping services running. The company has to take into account its 'Duty of Care' to its employees and therefore if there is a risk of accidents causing injury they will make a decision to suspend services based on reports from the staff out there actually experiencing the problems.

Where I lived in Ashton in the 1950/60s it wasn't unusual for the bus services to be suspended during winter snow falls, they were turned back short about a mile from the final terminus and people had to walk the last bit, no-one complained they just got on with it! We are all too wrapped up in the culture of expecting someone else to do everything for us instead of getting off our backsides and helping ourselves.

Rant over!

I was brought up 12 miles outside of Glasgow and the buses went off sometimes for a week at a time because they couldn't get up the hills, or if they did, they couldn't get back down safely. The Blue Trains did their own thing and sometimes got diverted to a different town altogether. (now there's something different.)

I was only 16 at the time and once had to walk all the way home from Glasgow after work, then set off at 6am and just hoped I would see a bus or that a train may turn up. You would use imagination, get the bus to there, then maybe the subway, maybe another bus ,then the train, then walk, maybe sadly, I saw it as a bit of adventure. The word used to get round the street when someone heard a bus after a few days and you were grateful when it did turn up.


As for services going down now. Sorry, but there's absolutely no "Underlying Reason" for that one. Sorry, no paranoia theory I'm afraid..... Awwww.

So there's no litigation, no lawers etc..... just good old common sense like it has been for the last 30 odd years! Every effort is made to try to give the best service to as many areas as possible, but sometimes it can't be done, remembering of course that there is a human being sat driving who may have been doing so for over 5 hours and be hours late!

If a driver feels it's unsafe to drive along a certain stretch, he doesn't have to go there. Nobody can force him to either, because if anything happened , he is accountable if he does it knowing it's not safe. He would then stop and radio through and advise and wait for confirmation or divert to somewhere nearby if it is a safer way. If the next bus comes along then radios in, or it's apparent from what the first driver has said,then that section of route is suspended till it's checked out. If the weather changes like it did last night, then it's reinstated. So maybe have a bit more respect for the professional drivers who have everyone's safety at heart. Driving a car is a whole different ball game in slippy weather, in fact it's really safe knowing that the front isn't going to slide into the kerb everytime you stop, or the back will end up in front of you....lol

It seems the gremlins have paid a vist to QR. 1010 has just passed me with both headlights and rear lights lit at both ends!!!

It seems the gremlins have paid a vist to QR. 1010 has just passed me with both headlights and rear lights lit at both ends!!!

1025 was doing the same the other week.

Do we know which 12 T68s are about to be retired?

Presumably the work has already started on moving the signalling kit over to the M5000s so the odd one may already be gone for ever.

Quite sad really given the service they ahve give to the city.

Do we know which 12 T68s are about to be retired?

Presumably the work has already started on moving the signalling kit over to the M5000s so the odd one may already be gone for ever.

Quite sad really given the service they ahve give to the city.

I'm guessing the ones which don't yet have the bumper etc will be the first to go. So...1017, 1018, 1019 and 1020?

Do we know which 12 T68s are about to be retired?

Presumably the work has already started on moving the signalling kit over to the M5000s so the odd one may already be gone for ever.

Quite sad really given the service they ahve give to the city.

U think it be ones that keep broking down that go first?

U think it be ones that keep broking down that go first?

Nope, they'll definitely want to keep those babies in public service for as long as possible, I'm sure they love dealing with failed trams :-p

Anyone planning to take advantage of the 2 for 1 Tuesday evening offer as part of the Manchester Loves February campaign can now get their voucher from the Metrolink website.

http://www.metrolink.co.uk/voucher-code.asp

Metrolink need one of these I think...
http://www.raitio.org/ratikat/helsinki/hkl/hkltyo/harjavaunut/2122kuvat/2122_05.jpg
http://www.raitio.org/ratikat/helsinki/hkl/hkltyo/harjavaunut/2122kuvat/hkl2122_191210_juto_a.jpg

They are already suitably painted!!!

BTW it's car 1022 from the Helsinki tramway in Finland.

:lol::banana::banana::lol:

moved..

There's a separate thread called "Metrolink phase 2cc and future" that's dedicated to questions such as that one :-)

moved..

There's a separate thread called "Metrolink phase 2cc and future" that's dedicated to questions such as that one :-)

ooops sorry

Don't be, it's not exactly obvious :-) nice map btw!

Just spotted this story on the GMP website. I don't think anyone has posted this one before. Thankfully nothing major but still a stupid thing for someone to do.

Tram seat set on fire
http://gmp.police.uk/mainsite/pages/C66FB00AC8B6C6C180257996005F367D.htm

Been having a look into some of the new reports for this month from tfgm. This answers some questions. The option for more trams only runs until September this year and the other big piece of news is they've budgeted for the rest of the T-68s to be replaced. Won't find out until the Summer but its certainly good news that theres a plan in place.
Item 14 page 21 which can be downloaded here...
http://www.transportforgreatermanchestercommittee.gov.uk/downloads/file/4282/item_14_greater_manchester_transport_fund_update

5 Other Metrolink Capital Programmes

5.1 Other Metrolink Capital Programmes include a number of projects to enhance the overall quality of service for passengers. This includes a programme to replace the existing fleet of 32 T68 trams.

5.2 Proposals to replace 12 of the existing fleet of T68 trams were approved by the Combined Authority in September 2011. The latest financial projections have been prepared after allowing for the costs relating to the acquisition of an additional 20 trams to replace the remainder of the existing T68 fleet. Detailed proposals will be submitted to the first meeting of the TfGMC Capital Projects and Policy sub-committee after the TfGMC AGM on 15 June, 2012 and GMCA for consideration in relation to the procurement of additional trams before the expiry of the current contractual option period in September 2012.

Just spotted this story on the GMP website. I don't think anyone has posted this one before. Thankfully nothing major but still a stupid thing for someone to do.

Tram seat set on fire
http://gmp.police.uk/mainsite/pages/C66FB00AC8B6C6C180257996005F367D.htm

It had a mention in the MEN a last week too.

Been having a look into some of the new reports for this month from tfgm. This answers some questions. The option for more trams only runs until September this year and the other big piece of news is they've budgeted for the rest of the T-68s to be replaced. Won't find out until the Summer but its certainly good news that theres a plan in place.
Item 14 page 21 which can be downloaded here...
http://www.transportforgreatermanchestercommittee.gov.uk/downloads/file/4282/item_14_greater_manchester_transport_fund_update

Hmm, so they have to find the funding relatively quickly then. It also means we will definitely have a 4000 series of vehicles for a phase 4 in the future. I wonder how different the Trafford Centre/Port Salford line vehicles will be :banana2:

Well in theory the purchase of 20 more would extend the options by another 20 months.

Hmm, so they have to find the funding relatively quickly then. It also means we will definitely have a 4000 series of vehicles for a phase 4 in the future. I wonder how different the Trafford Centre/Port Salford line vehicles will be :banana2:

"The latest financial projections have been prepared after allowing for the costs relating to the acquisition of an additional 20 trams"

Wouldn't this part of that statement hint towards funding already being identified, with debate before any approval?

I dont think the financing has been found yet, this is refering to the revenue cost and its impact on extensions which are part financed by profits.

Just spotted this story on the GMP website. I don't think anyone has posted this one before. Thankfully nothing major but still a stupid thing for someone to do.

Tram seat set on fire
http://gmp.police.uk/mainsite/pages/C66FB00AC8B6C6C180257996005F367D.htm

This is on MEN website, do anyone which tram is was that set fire to seat?.

Teenager hands himself into police after Metrolink tram seat set on fire

A teenager has handed himself into police after a tram was set on fire in Bury.

A group of men aged between 16 and 20 walked onto a Metrolink tram on Sunday, January 2, and set fire to an item before and leaving it on a tram seat.

The gang then got off the tram and left the item to burn until the driver was alerted and the blaze was extinguished.

Following an appeal a 16-year-old presented himself to police and was interviewed under caution. Inquiries are ongoing.

Anyone with information should phone police on 0161 856 8162 or the independent charity Crimestoppers, anonymously, on 0800 555 111.

Latest Metrolink Commitee Docs (http://www.transportforgreatermanchestercommittee.gov.uk/downloads/file/4289/item_05_metrolink_service_performance)

Nothing interesting really


On the 18 October 2011 at 10:02 a vehicle failed at Stretford
outbound with a compressor fault. Metrolink passengers were able
to use their tickets on the commercial bus service between
Altrincham and Piccadilly. At 10:40 the failed vehicle was
successfully moved to Altrincham.
€
On the 7 November 2011 the start of service was severely
disrupted due to a high number of vehicle failures. Metrolink
passengers were able to use their tickets on commercial bus
services for Altrincham, Eccles & South Manchester lines.

€On 25 November at 07:45 a Driver reported 6 scaffolding trucks
blocking the lines at Anchorage in protest. Police were called and
a mobile response was despatched from Queens Road Depot.
Metrolink tickets were authorised to be used on commercial bus
services. At 09:15 the trucks were moved and normal service
resumed on the Eccles line.
€
On 29 November 2011 at 14:00 a car drove into an overhead line
stanchion at Shudehill. It was a serious incident and the police
closed the whole junction. Services operated Bury to Victoria with
the Altrincham and South Manchester Lines turning at Piccadilly.
The Eccles service was not affected. At 20:24 the Police cleared
the scene and a normal service resumed.
€
On 30 November at 05:40 points at Queens Road Junction lost
detection. These points are used to route trams from the depot to
the inbound line for start of service; however, they failed after the
first services had left the depot. At 06:29 the fault was repaired.
€
On 30 November 2011 at 12:08 Police stopped Metrolink services
through the City Centre due to the TUC organised march. At 12:55
authority was given for normal services to resume.
€
On 2 December 2011 at 10:40 a vehicle failed at Piccadilly
Gardens following electrical testing work. All services were sent
direct across the City. At 11:46 the vehicle was moved and
services resumed to Piccadilly Undercroft.
€
On 7 December 2011 at 07:42 a vehicle failed on High St Inbound.
At 07:55 services on the Bury line where turned back at Victoria
and the Altrincham, Eccles & South Manchester services were
turned at Piccadilly. At 08:34 the failed vehicle was moved and
normal services resumed.

€On 7 December 2011 at 12:50 a tram was involved in a collision
with a car at the junction of South Langworthy Road and Kansas
Avenue. Services to Eccles were re-directed into Media City with
no services from Media City to Eccles. Metrolink tickets were
authorised to be used on commercial bus services. At 13:20 the
scene was cleared by the Police, safety checks were carried out
and the vehicle was moved back to the depot. There were no
reported injuries.

€On 7 December 2011 at 13:28 a tram collided with a female
pedestrian on High St. Police and Ambulance were requested to
attend. At 13:56 the pedestrian was taken to hospital and services
resumed through the City.


€On 10 December 2011 at 12:02 a vehicle failed at Pomona. Eccles
services operated to Media City and Metrolink tickets were
authorised to be used on commercial bus services between
Piccadilly and Eccles. At 12:59 normal services resumed.

2 vehicles were out of service at various times during the Period.

Vehicle 1016 was out of service in Period 8 after entering the
Special Project Programme in mid-November. It returned to
service on the 30 December 2011.
€
Vehicle 3007 was out of service from 11 - 22 November 2011 to
be fitted with the ATS (Automatic Tram Stop) equipment.

Service Updates

There was one planned closure for Period 7 which was as follows.

From 23:00 on Saturday 29 October and all day Sunday 30 October,
there were no services on the Altrincham, Eccles or South Manchester
lines. Due to a cracked rail, essential maintenance took place on the
cross over at Deansgate-Castlefield

The operator has recently implemented a strategy to make proactive
service announcements relating to the next tram. This has had a positive
reception from passengers and impact on complaints during service
disruptions. Work is on-going to refine this strategy and deliver
continuous improvement to customer service.

Interestingly it says T68 refurbishment is still under development with the number to remain in service unclear at the moment. 14 M5000's available for service each day on average (so more than 14 with signalling).

The operator has recently implemented a strategy to make proactive
service announcements relating to the next tram. This has had a positive
reception from passengers and impact on complaints during service
disruptions. Work is on-going to refine this strategy and deliver
continuous improvement to customer service.

I would like to think WE as forummers may have finally been taken notice of..:banana::banana:

I think WE as forumers probably had bugger all to do with it, unless anyone formally contacted TfGM / RATP about this outside of the fourm.

Personally, I cannot believe anyone would be paid to read the amount of drivel that we talk about on here.

Personally, I cannot believe anyone would be paid to read the amount of drivel that we talk about on here.

haha I would love to be paid to read this forum!!! :lol::nuts::lol::nuts:

I'm sure they rather read the drivel on here, rather than the drivel that comes of the MENs comment pages hey?

Enjoy. :banana:

On a side note.

Axis looks God damn beautiful! :drool: Get it built please.

Manchester Confidential.

Exciting Video Action: Metrolink's Sexy VT

Fly-through (OK rumble-through) video of Metrolink's Second City Crossing

http://www.manchesterconfidential.co.uk/i/IIM/4NYV_M.jpg

Well, sexy, if you like trams, and infrastructure. In that case this is really hot stuff and we've got our sweaty hands on it.

The video shows trams scooting through the city centre on the proposed 'second city crossing' down Princess Street and Cross Street, then through Exchange Square and into Victoria Station.

This short extra line is needed because the number of trams using the city centre on the single existing line is already a problem.

When additional lines to Ashton, Didsbury and Oldham and Rochdale open, it would be reckless to expect the Piccadilly Gardens lines to take all that weight of traffic.

The video shows the controversial re-positioning of the Cenotaph in St Peter's Square and also no Wheel of Manchester in Exchange Square.

That's because the Wheel is to disappear in April, and while the city council would like it back no site has been found to accommodate it.

The Wheel apparently takes around half a million rides a year. Still it's had a good run.

Anyway that aside, the graphic modelling on the Town Hall and other buildings in this video is superb.

By the way work on the line is due to start in 2013 subject to planning permission and so forth.

F0fcSlF84u4&feature=player_embedded

Interestingly it says T68 refurbishment is still under development with the number to remain in service unclear at the moment. 14 M5000's available for service each day on average (so more than 14 with signalling).

I don't think that is necessarily so. I read this to imply there are 14 sets of equipment available to fit to M5000s and that any one time 14 are equipped. Once the tram is wired and has the necessary connectors fitted it would be relatively easy to move the equipment from one tram to another. That has frequently been done in the T68/A fleet when spares have been short.

They dont appear to be hot swapping since 3007 was out for a quite a while being refitted to add it back.

I see a other tram broke down at Piccadilly garden this evening:ohno:

20.02 Delays to All Lines

Metrolink Services

Due to an earlier failed vehicle in the Piccadilly Gardens area, we are currently experiencing delays to all services.

Metrolink apologise for the inconvenience this may cause

I posted this in mistake on the extension forum earlier.

I had cause to use Metrolink between Altrincham and Piccadilly and return today. What a contrast the 2 trips were!

Inbound from Altrincham at around 10 this morning excellent fast trip on an unmodified T68.

Outbound at around 3 this afternoon from Piccadilly it was back to the Metrolink we all know and love(not). Waiting at Piccadilly it quickly became apparent that all was not well despite no announcements. An M5000 standing in the Ashton platform quickly disappeared into the sidings to keep out of sight. Eventually reappearing bound for Eccles, with no other arrivals I took this to Mosley Street to await either the next direct or a later tram from Piccadilly. After around 15 minutes an M5000 appeared outside Burger King with Altrincham displayed but it was beaten to Mosley St by a T68 from Piccadilly which I boarded. A good run to Old Trafford was brought to an abrupt halt with a 7 minute wait for a green signal. A leisurely run to Stretford was followed by another lengthy wait for a green. A muffled radio message came through but no PA followed. Arriving at Dane Rd another stand at a red, a radio call I overheard implied a failed tram ahead. Still no driver PA. A passenger knocked on the cab door to ask the driver to close the doors so the heaters could warm the passengers rather than the whole of Trafford. Following the same pattern we eventually left Brooklands and on departure the driver actually managed to make an announcement but only to tell the packed tram that we would be terminating at Timperley due to a preceding tram having failed and that there was another tram 2 minutes behind, yes you guessed it was the M5000 from Bury that had followed us down. After a lengthy wait our tram went forward into the siding to turn back to town. The almost empty M5000 arrived and finally allowed us to complete our journey.

Sorry about the lengthy tale but a couple of points occurred to me during the trip. Firstly no PAs were heard at any of the platforms we were held at and the driver made no attempt to give any info despite at least 3 radio calls being overheard. Secondly why tip out a full tram at Timperley into the freezing rain when 2 minutes behind there was an almost empty tram which could just as easily have been turned. Metrolink Customer Care in action yet again. Right through the incident the website was telling us that Normal Services were operating. Although come to think of it that was true!

Yes this lengthy text will be sent into TfGM as a complaint. No doubt it will be passed straight to RATP without any TfGM investigation so they can give their usual whitewash.

They dont appear to be hot swapping since 3007 was out for a quite a while being refitted to add it back.

I noticed that in the minutes too. I wonder whether it was actually waiting for parts or whether it really does take that long to refit once it has been fitted once before or whether there was some other hidden reason.

Yes, more problems tonight. Vehicle failure somewhere in the city centre causing delays. There's nothing surprising or remarkable about that, but two things struck me:

1. Customer announcements are welcome but inaudible at Victoria if a train is on the nearby platform

2. This wasn't a night to be standing in the cold outdoors for long periods. So I felt sorry for some of the older people waiting and especially the bloke with the 3-4 year old son in tow, none of whom could compete in the scrum for a place on the packed single unit that arrived after 15-20 mins of waiting

I think WE as forumers probably had bugger all to do with it, unless anyone formally contacted TfGM / RATP about this outside of the fourm.

Personally, I cannot believe anyone would be paid to read the amount of drivel that we talk about on here.

Sorry LNG was just trying to be positive, I apologise.

Sorry.

I was just trying to be realistic.

From TfGM...

Dear Mr ABCDEFG
Thank you for your comments regarding Metrolink. I would like to apologise for the delay in responding to you.

The service failures experienced in the last few weeks are being reviewed by the Metrolink operator, MRDL, and actions are being developed to limit the impact of them in the future. Each vehicle failure involved the older vehicles from the fleet - T68s - of which there are 32. The recent problems all involved T68s that have been in service since 1992. T68s are considerably less reliable than the new M5000s and we are fully aware of how that can affect services. That is why we are in the process of replacing 12 of these original trams. A link to the press release on the issue can be found below. We are also reviewing the possibility of replacing the rest of the T68 fleet.
http://www.tfgm.com/tfgm_news.cfm?news_id=9007865?submenuheader=4)
We recognise that many parts of the system would benefit from additional capacity and we are currently examining ways in which we could increase the number of double units operating on the Bury and Altrincham lines, particularly during the busiest times. There are constraints impacting on the ability to provide additional doubles and live passenger information, predominantly driven by the delays to the new Tram Management System (TMS).
However, we are in the process of investigating how we can overcome such constraints and provide a service as soon as practicable that will meet the expectations of our customers.

I can confirm that when the Oldham Line does open it will operate using the TMS system as is the case with the Chorlton Line.
I trust that this response serves to answer the concerns that you have raised. If I can be of any further assistance then please do not hesitate to contact me.

Yours sincerely




XXXXXX YYYYYYY
Customer Relations Officer




_______________________________________________________________________
This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon this information by individuals or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender immediately and delete the email and any attachments.

As a public body, Transport for Greater Manchester may be required to disclose this email or any response to it under the Freedom of Information Act 2000, unless the information in it is covered by one of the exemptions in the Act.

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Personally, I cannot believe anyone would be paid to read the amount of drivel that we talk about on here.
It will be part of somebody's job description. A good friend of mine used to be paid, IMO, a good wage by the national trust to buy EVERY daily newspaper and go through each one looking for articles relating to the trust!!!

It would appear Metrolink are after drivers again!

It will be part of somebody's job description. A good friend of mine used to be paid, IMO, a good wage by the national trust to buy EVERY daily newspaper and go through each one looking for articles relating to the trust!!!

Council press officers have to do similar.

It will be part of somebody's job description. A good friend of mine used to be paid, IMO, a good wage by the national trust to buy EVERY daily newspaper and go through each one looking for articles relating to the trust!!!

Yes newspapers but not internet forums.

You do have marketing companies now that compile the chatter on social media (twitter, facebook, forums) on behalf of their clients.

Following the same pattern we eventually left Brooklands and on departure the driver actually managed to make an announcement but only to tell the packed tram that we would be terminating at Timperley due to a preceding tram having failed and that there was another tram 2 minutes behind, yes you guessed it was the M5000 from Bury that had followed us down. After a lengthy wait our tram went forward into the siding to turn back to town. The almost empty M5000 arrived and finally allowed us to complete our journey.

This is quite regular: turning a tram short at Timperley then slotting it back on time to leave back inbound to the City. You only need to llok at the shiney rails in the trunback siding.
Whilst the original destination blinds om T68s had "Timperley" as a destination, don't think the dot-matrixs have it at all.

There is a general lack of platform announcements on the Altrincham line when there are times in the city when it seems every tram is announced.

You do have marketing companies now that compile the chatter on social media (twitter, facebook, forums) on behalf of their clients.

Not to mention its cheaper than having to buy papers.

The reason for all the Metro delays is revealed ....

Another cracking story from News Manc. :okay:

Even more interesting are some of the comments from people who seem to believe it is true :bash:

http://newsmanc.co.uk/2012/02/09/news-metrolink-has-been-giant-social-experiment-admit-transport-for-greater-manchester/

You do have marketing companies now that compile the chatter on social media (twitter, facebook, forums) on behalf of their clients.

At a lot of companies sites like these are actually blocked. I know that this forum was certainly blocked at Metrolink during Stagecoach days, I don't know whether it still is.

I do like reading comments people put on Oldham Chronicle about Metrolink :lol:

http://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/news-features/8/news-headlines/66208/tram-workers-in-line-of-fire

Oldham is full of small town, narrow minded, inbred dole scroungers. I am so glad ive left the shit hole. Been away 3 months now and being honest Im not home sick and dont realy miss the place. Good on Metrolink it will probably help the decent folk of Oldham get out of that crap town much easier because to be honest the dump needs demoliting. I've always tried to stick up for my home town but the people there just fuck me off.

10/02/2012 - 23.00 Partial Suspension of Services
Metrolink Services

Due to a failed vehicle at St Peters Square and a points failure at Deansgate-Castlefield, there is currently no service operating on the Altrincham, Eccles and South Manchester line to St Werburgh's Road.

A service is operating between Bury and Manchester Piccadilly only.

Metrolink apologise for the inconvenience this may cause.

^^ Oh dear.

NEWS | Metrolink has been ‘giant social experiment’ admit Transport for Greater Manchester

http://newsmanc.co.uk/2012/02/09/news-metrolink-has-been-giant-social-experiment-admit-transport-for-greater-manchester/

Several sets of t68 up and down the Bury line at the moment (3:30 and seen 4 in the space of 10 minutes) any reason?

- Correction, M5000's too, its like a full service! If they were in service.

Preventing ice build up on the overhead, possibly some training too.

Preventing ice build up on the overhead, possibly some training too.

Well I know one of the drivers that was out testing one of the substations up the Bury line tonight. Wouldn't be surprised if there was ice breakers out after that too.

Ive noticed a 1000 series tram returning through Victoria at about 04:30 most mornings this week. Just the one though.

Does anyone know when the One Stop short-hop fares are going to be introduced...?

Thought they had?

If I travel to Stretty from Dane Rd it is the same price as Sale, despite bing in different zones.

Both are £1.20 a single and £1.50 return.

Oh right, my mistake, St. Werburgh's Road to Chorlton is £1.20, I had assumed one stop fares would be a little lower than that :-)

One stop fares were in from the start on South Manchester line.

I find it strange that a one stop fare costs about half of the fare all the way to Victoria! :-/

I know, I would expect something in the 80p/£1 range.

It's about the average, slightly less, compared to bus fares where the fare stages are usually about half a mile apart.

One stage can be between £1.10 and £1.50 depending on the operator. Two stages £1.50 and so on. If you got on at Chorlton on the 22/23 and went to Stretford it is 2 stages therfore £1.50. If you were to count St Werbs as Nell Lane and go to Morrisons it would be £1.50 on the bus.