In order to keep all the other threads on topic, I've created this boxing ring thread. Please keep within the rules of this website, otherwise argue away.

I can see this thread getting :lock: very quickly.

Might I start off with the first thread...

In the perfect Vancouver we would have...
1. Mass rail transit network, including commuter rail, Skytrain, Metros, and DMUs to efficiently transport a large number of people.
2. Local rail transit network, including streetcars and LRTs, where corridor densities do not justify the use of mass transit, or to get people closer to where they need to go.
3. A complete bus network as a stopgap measure where rail transit is not cost justifiable or simply not affordable, and as a community service to reach people as close to their doorsteps as possible. Buses will also be required for the small percentage of people who are too scared of trains to ride them, yes I know a few.
4. Roads are strictly used for short and medium haul freight traffic, local freight delivery, emergency vehicles, and any general traffic which cannot be served by mass transit such as those carrying hockey gear (please do not bring hockey gear on transit, PLEASE [I've been guilty myself back in my college years *embarrassed*]...), going camping, etc.
5. Rail has been proven to be way more economical and better for the environment for hauling medium to long-distance freight so freight rail capacity should be a priority as required.

I take the 25 from UBC and I always manage to get the one bus that some of the hockey players take after practice. And holy hell, I never played hockey but I've heard aobut their tales of stinky hockey gear bags - it stunk to high heaven!!!

At least I was kind enough to Febreeze my hockey bag before getting on public transit lol.

urbanfan, I'm surprised the other threads didn't get locked yet. I just wanted to have a central squabble place instead of polluting the other threads with squabbling.

Public transit needs to be very frequent and easily payable. For example, someone who drives a car would expect to get on waiting 5-10 mins max and swip a card (even credit) to pay for the fare. There also needs to be a place to sit for a trip longer than 5-10 mins. Otherwise, I see little reason for someone who drives everywhere to take public transit. In fact, I know people who would rather be stuck in traffic in their own car even if it takes longer to get there.
Also, laws and artificial costs of owning a car will not force people to take transit. Instead, people who can afford it will probably drive their cars in spite, and there might be a small percentage who actually switch to public transit.
Anyways, it's clear that transit needs to be more frequent, accessible, and faster than a car in order to get people who currently drive to take it.
Obviously there are situations where you need to take a car (i.e long trips and vacations), and there is nothing transit can do there (greyhound = drug dealer express).

there is nothing transit can do there (greyhound = drug dealer express).

I find the whole train/transit/bus = crime haven argument quite flawed. Those who argue this often forget that cars are also tools for criminals.


Public transit needs to be very frequent and easily payable. For example, someone who drives a car would expect to get on waiting 5-10 mins max and swip a card (even credit) to pay for the fare. There also needs to be a place to sit for a trip longer than 5-10 mins. Otherwise, I see little reason for someone who drives everywhere to take public transit. In fact, I know people who would rather be stuck in traffic in their own car even if it takes longer to get there.

i agree with you....i can't blame people in the suburbs for using their cars when transit is incompetent with full buses, slow routes, and infrequent schedules. A bus coming every hour at rush hour is ridiculous. Time is money.

The way I see it, driving my car has no down side. All the negative things people point out like pollution don't affect me. Smog is blown east into the fraser valley, it never hangs in Richmond. And as for climate change, I'll be long dead before any significant changes happen.

In other words, you're a selfish ass-wipe.

Obviously there are situations where you need to take a car (i.e long trips and vacations), and there is nothing transit can do there (greyhound = drug dealer express).

I may be a minority but I for one enjoy taking the Greyhound whether it's to get back to Mission/Abbotsford from Vancouver to go to work (family lives out in Vancouver, I usually stay there for Sunday and commute back to Abby Monday morning), i love just being able to sit back and relax. It's the Greyhound/West Coast Express that got me thinking that I would so pay extra for a premium transit service around town and seems I'm not alone judging by the number of people who take the West Coast Express TrainBus on the weekend. Of course if I'm going camping or picking up supplies to renovate my home I have no choice but to use my car, but if I'm going to Edmonton to visit friends or my 2006 vacation where I flew (I know so bad....) to Ottawa and took a bus all around the east coast from there, the Greyhound is an excellent mode of travel. I find in Canada there is a greater portion of middle class people who take the Greyhound, unlike the US. Taking the Greyhound in the US is pure torture, they definitely deserve their drug dealer express reputation there but fortunately the US has a decent intercity train system to compensate. Greyhound Canada definitely doesn't deserve that rep.

In other words, you're a selfish ass-wipe.

That comment made my day :lol:

Yeah D I like the Greyhound too. I took it last week to go up to Kamloops to see my parents. I see nothing wrong with it. For some odd reason they even cancelled all the stops after Chilliwack to Kamloops, so my total trip time from Coquitlam to Kamloops was only 4 hrs 10 min which is pretty amazing for a bus.

To add to the whole transit thing, MOST of you have posted logical and good points for the benefits of transit, and when vechiles are more appropriate. I will add that after selling my car I have lost 15 lbs, and I have a lot more energy from the extra walking I do, and no longer have to bother trying to do cardio at the gym haha.

To be honest I only miss my car for going to get groceries (mainly for the time is money factor, and I can only carry so much at a time :P) and at night time out around the tricities area when I go to the casino or to my cousin's house, cause service time is terrible as most of us know.

I find the whole train/transit/bus = crime haven argument quite flawed. Those who argue this often forget that cars are also tools for criminals.
Eh? I wasn't implying that. However, if you have ever taken a greyhound bus for a longer route (12+ hours), you will see people shooting up, going crazy, and even physically and verbally attacking you. In fact, I believe the bus I was on from Jasper to Vancouver had to make 2 stops for the police to arrest people...it was ridiculous. :ohno:
Although not generally, there is plenty of crime on transit (in Metro Van) in certain areas. This would include the last couple of stations of the Expo line (from New West onward), East Van bus routes at night, and a couple of others. Although something is finally being done after a couple of deaths and dozens of assaults.

To add to the whole transit thing, MOST of you have posted logical and good points for the benefits of transit, and when vechiles are more appropriate. I will add that after selling my car I have lost 15 lbs, and I have a lot more energy from the extra walking I do, and no longer have to bother trying to do cardio at the gym haha.

Lol I'm jealous you actually lose weight if you take transit. I maintain my weight when I take transit at least 4 times a week and gain my weight if I don't... I guess I'm just eating too much. *embarrassed* Time to calorie count... eat less and take transit 4 times a week. I may actually get a bike and bike to work this summer. Transit out in the Valley really sucks. I could probably bike from Mission to my office in Abby in about the same amount of time as taking transit. There are some big service improvements coming this Fall, the 31 Valley Connector frequency is improving to 15 minutes.

Eh? I wasn't implying that. However, if you have ever taken a greyhound bus for a longer route (12+ hours), you will see people shooting up, going crazy, and even physically and verbally attacking you. In fact, I believe the bus I was on from Jasper to Vancouver had to make 2 stops for the police to arrest people...it was ridiculous. :ohno:
Although not generally, there is plenty of crime on transit (in Metro Van) in certain areas. This would include the last couple of stations of the Expo line (from New West onward), East Van bus routes at night, and a couple of others. Although something is finally being done after a couple of deaths and dozens of assaults.

o_O....people do that???

I've never taken a Greyhound, I wouldn't know.

i once took the greyhound from chicago via detroit to toronto.... it wasnt that bad... bus was half empty and people were normal

In my mind, I would keep Greyhound separate from public transit. But while on the matter of Greyhound, it only brings up my wish that we had more commuter rail like in Europe. There was a fascinating hour-long doc on CBC Newsworld about why North America hasn't really embraced it to the extent in Europe.

And as for northwest2k, no downside? Now I know he doesn't drive....driving in Richmond sucks. The people don't know how to drive, there's never parking. Well....there's nothing in Richmond that I can't get with a 10 minute Skytrain ride to downtown.

Yea aren't turn signals illegal in Richmond? And I heard that all the street signs and stop lights are for decorative purposes only.

In my mind, I would keep Greyhound separate from public transit. But while on the matter of Greyhound, it only brings up my wish that we had more commuter rail like in Europe. There was a fascinating hour-long doc on CBC Newsworld about why North America hasn't really embraced it to the extent in Europe.

And as for northwest2k, no downside? Now I know he doesn't drive....driving in Richmond sucks. The people don't know how to drive, there's never parking. Well....there's nothing in Richmond that I can't get with a 10 minute Skytrain ride to downtown.

Driving in Richmond is a breeze. There's hardly ever any congestion. People know how to drive, thats just a stupid stereotype. And no parking? :lol: Stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Really? Stupidest thing? Then I guess you haven't read all your postings in this forum then.

I'll be long dead before any significant changes happen.

Hope you're not planning to have any offspring.

TAking transit is way cheaper for me. I don't mind the wait times just as long as I save a buck. haha

o_O....people do that???

I've never taken a Greyhound, I wouldn't know.

Yes. That was the last time I took Greyhound. I seriously thought it was some hidden camera joke or something...
The bus reeked of urine and alcohol, and the people on it were close to the type you would find in DTES. When I got on in Jasper it was fine, but only 5-10 people got on there...the fiends got on along the way. The only fun part was when a bear started chasing one of them at a rest stop because the idiot never heard of a toilet before.

The only fun part was when a bear started chasing one of them at a rest stop because the idiot never heard of a toilet before.

lmao...

ive done the greyhound across the country a few times... its not so bad

I've done it a few times between Edmonton and Vancouver and Calgary and Vancouver... The bus broke down on the Coq TWICE... and once it blew a tired in Banff and we had to wait there to get someone from Calgary to come and fix it... But honestly, except for that, it really wasn't that bad.

London Ontario

Driving from North -> south

(masonville to white oaks)

30-45 minutes by car

1 hour by bus

EDIT: I thought this was a sub-forum of the Canada forum, NOT the BC forum. So forgive the Torontonian perspective on it.

This summer I finally broke down and purchased my first car. I've lived on my own in the suburbs just north of Toronto's city limits for about a year now, and up until this past summer managed to get by without a car.

While it is more expensive, having a car has opened up many doors to me. I can now goto grocery stores that are cheaper, rather than having to go to the one down the street. As someone mentioned earlier, transit needs to be affordable and easy to pay for, neither is the case in Toronto. GTA transit is fairly expensive, plus there is little coordination between the TTC and suburban YRT transit systems, meaning I may have to pay double for my trips. Plus my cash flow is fairly limited, and it is difficult to purcahse fare with debit or credit cards, even at subway stations!!! With my car, I can purchase gas on my credit card and earn Air Miles, and I can transverse city limits without a second thought.

I've also begun to put my car to work for me, doing courier work during the week. Even if I wasn't doing this, I now have the freedom to work in a much wider region, rather than along near by bus and rail routes. And yes, I enjoy driving too.

All this said, I don't see myself as simply pro-car, but pro-transportation. I support all forms of transportation improvements, whether it be for cars or transit. I believe transit should have ROWs and signal priorities as much as possible to allow it to be competitive with cars, especially in high density areas. I also believe stop spacing should be appropriate to both the density and form of transit used to encourage both fast and convenient access to transit.

I also support improving highway infrastructure in Toronto to help get motorists into and around the city. I do not support Toronto's strategy to tax car owners $75 per year for owning a car, all while planning to tear down a major highway. I also do not support increasing parking rates at transit stations, as the best transportation plan is to get people to drive to rapid transit from lower density areas and then take transit into and around higher density cores.

cars fit in too - i don't get the anti-car mentality - they serve a useful purpose