Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) - Compiled Threads [Archive] - Page 9

olineil

January 21st, 2010, 06:47 PM

ITDP Post: (http://www.itdp.org/index.php/projects/update/transjakarta_transforms_jakartans_travel_behavior/)
The Jakarta Post (http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2010/01/09/transjakarta039-transforms-jakartans039-travel-behavior.html)

From The Jakarta Post
See the original post here.

Ratna Yunita, Jakarta

Jakarta is the capital city of Indonesia with some 8.5 million inhabitants and about 3 million additional commuters during weekdays.

No wonder, since metropolitan Jakarta is becoming the largest and most populous city in Southeast Asia. These numbers result in a series of problems, one of which is the transportation system.

Since the 1970s, the Jakarta administration has tried to reform Jakarta’s transportation system by producing policies to solve congestion problems.

Those policies have been confirmed by experts who have recommended that that the most appropriate mode of transportation for Jakarta is the one that can transport as many people as possible, in a fast, safe and affordable manner.

The latest and most significant change was made during the Sutiyoso era when the former Governor of Jakarta promoted the Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) system which has become known as Transjakarta. Launched on Jan. 15, 2004 with an initial total of 12.9 kilometers in service length, Transjakarta, also became known as the busway.

It has been criticized by many since it has taken over a lane from previously normal road space, reducing space available for other vehicles.

Beside these critics, there is much appreciation for the existence of the Transjakarta especially from its users. They say that Transjakarta is a breakthrough in the Jakarta transportation system that has increased their mobility. Many of them have chosen to leave their private cars at home and take the Transjakarta to work.

“I took Transjakarta from home to the nearest shelter to the parliament building. I save 40 minutes during peak hours compared to driving my own car,” said Nusron Wahid, a parliament member.

Transportation problems can be solved not only by making physical changes to infrastructure, but also by gaining public support. The system is now serving eight corridors with a total of 124 kilometers in road length, served by a total of 385 single buses and 23 articulated buses, so public acceptance is important in making the system successful.

The number of Transjakarta passengers keeps increasing over time. From January to November 2009, Transjakarta served approximately 6.8 million passengers per month, which is an 11 percent increase from the same period last year.

However, public acceptance could still be boosted. There has been an initiative by the users to increase public acceptance by establishing a forum where they can exchange information and discuss how to improve the system.

The forum, named Suara Transjakarta (Voice of Transjakarta), was launched on Feb. 2, 2004. “Transjakarta is a boon for the Jakarta transportation system that brings not only new physical infrastructure, but also adds new socio-cultural trends to Jakarta public transportation,” said David Tjahjana, Coordinator of Suara Transjakarta.

Indeed, there is a huge behavioral difference for Jakartans between using the old transportation modes and the Transjakarta. Before the Transjakarta era, people could easily hop on and off the buses anywhere they liked, mostly not from the provided bus stops and shelters.

In many cases, this anarchy led to traffic chaos and accidents. There were reports of passengers being hit by other vehicles when attempting to get on and off buses, which did not always stop appropriately at the provided shelters.

Meanwhile, Transjakarta has its dedicated shelters so that passengers do not need to be afraid of being hit by other vehicles while hopping on and off the bus. These physical changes have led to behavioral changes in travel.

However, there are also concerns regarding passengers’ behavior while using Transjakarta buses.

First, there are still passengers who are not patient enough and force their way forward to get closer to the shelter door, instead of queuing. The front-liners - duty officers at the shelters - frequently have difficulties calming down those impatient passengers. Some front-liners even said that that overcrowding invited pickpockets to become active on the busways.

Second, passengers’ frequently ignore to give priority and give up their seats to elderly people, pregnant women and the disabled. Transjakarta management has put visual printed warnings on this inside the busways, but some people still completely ignore them.

Third, passengers, who cannot get seats, are frequently reluctant to proceed down the bus and they often opt to stand near the entrance door, thus obstructing others getting into the bus. Their attitude makes the buses appear to be more crowded, while actually they could still take more people standing in the aisles. As a result, passengers in the next bus shelter often do not want to board the bus, which seems more crowded than in reality, and wait for the next one.

These examples of poor behavior have caused inconvenience to other Transjakarta users. To deal with those problems, the Suara Transjakarta has set up a public education program via the listed group service, website and direct campaign events, mentioning the “dos and don’ts” in using Transjakarta.

The forum members also do “word of mouth” campaigns by advising other passengers who they meet with, especially passengers who behave improperly during trips. Hopefully, these campaign programs will help change the improper behavior of some passengers and persuade them adopt good habits.

The writer is Communication Specialist at the Institute for Transportation and Development Policy (ITDP) Indonesia.

spearhead

January 21st, 2010, 08:00 PM

Hmmm tsk yan kasi ang kagandahan sa pinoy politics, mas umaasenso sila kesa sa mga projects na dapat nilang tinatapos para sa bayan, wala eh, puro tyan muna nila ang inuuna. Anak ng tupa talaga...... :no:

greenshields

January 22nd, 2010, 01:01 AM

Exactly!

They don't just talk, they walk the talk. Since it is under construction now I am speculating that the studies started about 2 years ago during which nobody from the Philippines heard about BRT. I guess this just goes to show that our countries leaders is kinda stuck inside the box. Thankfully, the Cebu City leadership has a head that thinks outside the box of Philippines norm.

The Pre-FS for a Metro Manila BRT was conducted in 2007 and previous to that, a BRT workshop was held (sponsored by ADB I think) in 2006. The Pre-FS results were presented to the Metro Manila Council by a team that included UP's National Center for Transport Studies, Clean Air Initiative for Asia and the DOTC Road Transport led by Usec Lontoc. Sadly, MMDA didn't push through with the FS despite the availability of funds from the WB (at the time already with MMDA) and their commitment to do such when the pre-FS was conceived and approved for funding by the USAID.

olineil

January 22nd, 2010, 03:06 AM

The Pre-FS for a Metro Manila BRT was conducted in 2007 and previous to that, a BRT workshop was held (sponsored by ADB I think) in 2006. The Pre-FS results were presented to the Metro Manila Council by a team that included UP's National Center for Transport Studies, Clean Air Initiative for Asia and the DOTC Road Transport led by Usec Lontoc. Sadly, MMDA didn't push through with the FS despite the availability of funds from the WB (at the time already with MMDA) and their commitment to do such when the pre-FS was conceived and approved for funding by the USAID.

Well isn't that sad?

RonnieR

January 22nd, 2010, 05:29 AM

RonnieR

January 22nd, 2010, 05:40 AM

BRT Bangkok , taken last Sept. 2009
http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd350/RonnieR_2008/BangkokholidayAugust28toSept1158.jpg

olineil

January 22nd, 2010, 02:22 PM

I was just wondering on the ridership of Transjakarta, with the 6.8 Million passengers transported or let's say, an annualized of 81.6 Million that rode Transjakarta in 2009 with 124 kms. in road length. This is the reason why the city government is pushing for their very first MRT. The traffic jam in Jakarta is getting worse.

This really pales in comparison versus the 149 Million that rode the LRT system in Manila for the same period in 2009. LRT 1 and 2 cover 29 kms. of road length. You still have to add MRT 3, which has more ridership than LRT. MRT (17 kms.) has at least 450,000 passengers per day, or an annual ridership of 162 Million. So, LRT and MRT both carried at least 311 Million passengers in 2009 for the 46 kms. road length. This will increase further this year once the loop of LRT connecting MRT will be completed. :)

sources: LRT 1 ridership hits all-time high at 149.44 M in 2009
By EMMIE V. ABADILLA
January 7, 2010, 2:43pm

The Light Rail Transit Authority (LRTA)’s 2009 ridership totalled 149.44 million passengers for the Baclaran-Monumento Line (Line 1), breaking the highest record of 145.83 million passengers set half a decade ago, in 1994, LRTA Administrator Melquiades Robles announced.
http://www.mb.com.ph/articles/237324/lrt-1-ridership-hits-alltime-high-14944-m-2009

That is good and bad. For one, we also can't deny that Transjakarta also pales in comparison to the construction cost of the 3 systems in Manila. The Ridership is also being artificially pumped due to the unusually low prices of tickets because of the over subsidy by our National Government. Despite this feat - record breaking ridership and all, the 3 systems are still loosing money and the biggest looser of them all is the Taxpayers who keeps on subsidizing Manila peeps just so they have a better life every year. :ohno:

Transjarta admittedly is not the epitome of efficiency and ridership as compared to what Transmilenio & Curitiba has achieved. Transmilenio has surpassed the daily passenger capacity of NYC subways system per day and at a very low cost. Even all the criticism, transjakarta has transformed that rather hopeless & gridlocked city to a more livable and humane city. I don't know maybe they still lack the cumulative policies to favor public transport but we can't deny the benefits it has brought to that city.

Sky Harbor

January 22nd, 2010, 02:26 PM

^^ Again, the LRT is not losing money and in fact is making money. It's the MRT that's definitely losing money, to the tune of billions of pesos a year.

olineil

January 22nd, 2010, 03:38 PM

^^ Again, the LRT is not losing money and in fact is making money. It's the MRT that's definitely losing money, to the tune of billions of pesos a year.

LRT (the company itself) may not be loosing money but we can't deny that their income is due in part(majority) of the subsidy the government is doling out per ticket sold. Good for the company but bad for the government when that money could have been used for other social projects. MRT is a much sadder story. At the end of the day all three systems are loosing money and punishing the taxpayers. If the government drops the subsidy to an acceptable level, say 20-30%, I would keep quiet with my retorts. But the questions are:

1) would the systems still attract the same numbers of passengers considering
that majority of our population is poor?
2) would LRT still have positive income?
3) would any financial institution be even willing to fund any lrt/mrt projects?
4) would any lrt/mrt proposal in Manila be even feasible?

Those few questions would rise up. If the government removes the guaranteed income, no sane financial institution would fund this projects.

b_two

January 22nd, 2010, 06:44 PM

question:

can roads in metro manila accomodate 2 dedicated lanes for brt use?

olineil

January 22nd, 2010, 07:36 PM

question:

can roads in metro manila accomodate 2 dedicated lanes for brt use?

Why not? Question is how much are we willing to give up on our driving previlidges for a better and more humane metro. Medyo may ugali kasi ang Pinoy lalu na yung medyo nakakaangat ng konti sa buhay. Likas ang kaartehan maturingan Lang na sosyal. Kagaya ng nagpopost sa cebu LRT thread, tawag nya sa BRT bakya!

TagaCebu

January 22nd, 2010, 08:07 PM

Let me rephrase it. Which financial institution is funding it? .....Tommy O. has got nothing to gain politically f.
It is part of the national project of DOTC.
If they can do it in Manila, why should we stop them from doing it here!
Just imagine:
Your father in Manila gave your younger brother all his share of inheritance. Your brother went to Cebu and splurged his money in Pagcor, beautiful women and bought the 2011 BMW Z4 sDrive35is.
http://img.worldcarfans.com/2009/12/medium/2556123.jpg
He lost all his money to Pagcor, sold his car too and was dumped by all his women. Your brother went back to Manila to ask for forgiveness.
Your father was so happy and declared.
Let's have a feast and celebrate. For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found." So they began to celebrate.
......
Meanwhile, the older brother was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on. "Your brother has come," he replied, "and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound." The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. But he answered his father, "Look! All these years I've been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!" "My son," the father said, "you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found." (Luke 15:11-32)

olineil

January 22nd, 2010, 11:52 PM

^^
:drool: :drool: :drool:

pinkdoraemon

January 23rd, 2010, 01:57 AM

A BRT system is definitely feasible for Metro Manila. We even have wider roads than Bangkok. Sana magka C5 BRT muna for the meantime para masubukan.

greenshields

January 23rd, 2010, 06:09 AM

Why not? Question is how much are we willing to give up on our driving previlidges for a better and more humane metro. Medyo may ugali kasi ang Pinoy lalu na yung medyo nakakaangat ng konti sa buhay. Likas ang kaartehan maturingan Lang na sosyal. Kagaya ng nagpopost sa cebu LRT thread, tawag nya sa BRT bakya!

That's why I've lost interest in posting there...napaka-self righteous...LOL!

Anyhow, we need a lot of political will and social marketing for the BRT to succeed. Di pa nga naka-construct ng initial line puro obstacles na especially in Cebu. The photos above on Bangkok's BRT shows that in a corridor with a rail line if the demand is there, a BRT can be justified. So a BRT along EDSA can be feasible and another one that will coexist with the future MRT 7 (Commonwealth?) is also possible. But there really has to be a shift from private car use to public transport.

metrosuburban

January 23rd, 2010, 01:47 PM

Bangkok's BRT stations even look better than Seoul's.. love it! May BTS na, may BRT pa, may subway pa and tons of skyways.. and they continue progressing inspite the odds in their country since the coup.. Can't believe all these, too fast :)

MatudNilaBaby

January 23rd, 2010, 06:07 PM

It is part of the national project of DOTC.
If they can do it in Manila, why should we stop them from doing it here!
Just imagine:
Your father in Manila gave your younger brother all his share of inheritance. Your brother went to Cebu and splurged his money in Pagcor, beautiful women and bought the 2011 BMW Z4 sDrive35is.
http://img.worldcarfans.com/2009/12/medium/2556123.jpg
He lost all his money to Pagcor, sold his car too and was dumped by all his women. Your brother went back to Manila to ask for forgiveness.
Your father was so happy and declared.
Let's have a feast and celebrate. For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found." So they began to celebrate.
......
Meanwhile, the older brother was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on. "Your brother has come," he replied, "and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound." The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. But he answered his father, "Look! All these years I've been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!" "My son," the father said, "you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found." (Luke 15:11-32)

Tommy O was given a flash back during the Sinulog Grand Finale on the choo choo train that cebu used to have during the american era. if that was feasible that there were a handfull of people living in cebu during that time, how much more now that cebu is fast becoming the haven for many visayans and mindanaonons. if there are only bridges linking the provinces, everybody wants to be a cebuano or at least link to cebu. ergo, the cebuanos deserve the lrt/mrt just as much we want brt.

olineil

January 24th, 2010, 03:32 AM

Tommy O was given a flash back during the Sinulog Grand Finale on the choo choo train that cebu used to have during the american era. if that was feasible that there were a handfull of people living in cebu during that time, how much more now that cebu is fast becoming the haven for many visayans and mindanaonons. if there are only bridges linking the provinces, everybody wants to be a cebuano or at least link to cebu. ergo, the cebuanos deserve the lrt/mrt just as much we want brt.

That's actually great. But let us remember that During the American ERA, the Philippine Peso was 1:1 with the US Dollar. We were considered as the most industrialized nation in Asia next to Japan.

Rail is definitely needed in our country but heavy rail, not only for long distance travel but to bring down cost of transporting goods. When it comes to Urban People mover such as LRT/MRT... why push for it now when there is an alternative that could potentially deliver close to what an LRT can offer at a fraction of the cost and without heavy burden to the NG and LG. That's just my case here. When the time come that we can really afford such luxury then by all means build it.

RonnieR

January 25th, 2010, 09:20 AM

^^ Again, the LRT is not losing money and in fact is making money. It's the MRT that's definitely losing money, to the tune of billions of pesos a year.

Yes, LRTA is making money. I believe that once MRTA increases its fares, they will become profitable. In addition, they have US$200M project - automation of fares, purchase of new coaches, etc.

That is good and bad. For one, we also can't deny that Transjakarta also pales in comparison to the construction cost of the 3 systems in Manila. The Ridership is also being artificially pumped due to the unusually low prices of tickets because of the over subsidy by our National Government. Despite this feat - record breaking ridership and all, the 3 systems are still loosing money and the biggest looser of them all is the Taxpayers who keeps on subsidizing Manila peeps just so they have a better life every year. :ohno:

Transjarta admittedly is not the epitome of efficiency and ridership as compared to what Transmilenio & Curitiba has achieved. Transmilenio has surpassed the daily passenger capacity of NYC subways system per day and at a very low cost. Even all the criticism, transjakarta has transformed that rather hopeless & gridlocked city to a more livable and humane city. I don't know maybe they still lack the cumulative policies to favor public transport but we can't deny the benefits it has brought to that city.

LRT (the company itself) may not be loosing money but we can't deny that their income is due in part(majority) of the subsidy the government is doling out per ticket sold. Good for the company but bad for the government when that money could have been used for other social projects. MRT is a much sadder story. At the end of the day all three systems are loosing money and punishing the taxpayers. If the government drops the subsidy to an acceptable level, say 20-30%, I would keep quiet with my retorts. But the questions are:

Those few questions would rise up. If the government removes the guaranteed income, no sane financial institution would fund this projects.

It is not unique in the PHilippines to guarantee big ticket projects. Since it is a government project, naturally, there is a guarantee clause in the contract as these projects normally involves billions of dollars.

I believe that ridership in LRT/MRT will remain high even if the fare will increase since it is the safest/fastest mode of transportation in the capital. The working class/students will still embrace MRT/LRT. Just a correction: poverty level in the capital is not high compared to the national level of 26%. GDP per capita of Metro Manila is thrice the national GDP per capita. So, ridership is not a problem.

Anyway, let's not focus on Transjakarta as you keep on posting their BRT. Have you been to JKT? I don't want to say more things about it since I love that city and have close friends (Indonesians and Pinoys) who still live there. I'm visiting the place again later part of this year. Just a hint: our traffic is not bad at all. :)

Anyway, BRT Manila should be pushed for C5. It's in the pipeline and I hope the new MMDA Chairman and DOTC would implement it.

olineil

January 25th, 2010, 05:35 PM

Yes, LRTA is making money. I believe that once MRTA increases its fares, they will become profitable. In addition, they have US$200M project - automation of fares, purchase of new coaches, etc.

It is not unique in the PHilippines to guarantee big ticket projects. Since it is a government project, naturally, there is a guarantee clause in the contract as these projects normally involves billions of dollars.

>> Yes I am aware... and it is a sad reality that was pioneered by the American & British Governments which which we all know can afford to do so since their economy, GDP, and per capita can support it. This has been highlighted by sir Zid either in this thread or the Cebu LRT thread.

I believe that ridership in LRT/MRT will remain high even if the fare will increase since it is the safest/fastest mode of transportation in the capital. The working class/students will still embrace MRT/LRT. Just a correction: poverty level in the capital is not high compared to the national level of 26%. GDP per capita of Metro Manila is thrice the national GDP per capita. So, ridership is not a problem.

>>> I hope this is true now but as far as I remember it... during the early years of MRT implementation... ridership was very low and the ticket were like more than P30-40 if you go end to end. They were not able to compete with the buses because the bus fare was way lower and people still chose to use the buses. So if you think that's the case... why o why doesn't the MRT and LRTA increase their fare? Here is the thing... as per mentioned here, MRT fare without subsidy should actually be P63 (cant find the exact fare... it should be around there), anyway if they increase the fare then of course the the government will lower it's subsidy engagement(which I prefer)... hindi naman pwede na i-increase nila yung fare tapos ganon pa rin kalaki yung subsidy ng government. Now the question is how could MRT earn when even if you increase the fare it will still end up to be P63 total... so lugi pa rin. I think the problem with MRT is inefficient ang business sytem nila... there is problem somewhere where money gets wasted for nothing kaya lugi. The other potential solution is to minimize or totally replace the traditional bus & Jeepney system with BRT para yun lang ang choice ng tao sa EDSA... this could potentially result to a profitable MRT & BRT in EDSA. Of course MRT should increase their train frequency and the train lengths para mas efficient ang movement ng tao.

Anyway, BRT Manila should be pushed for C5. It's in the pipeline and I hope the new MMDA Chairman and DOTC would implement it.
Agree!

superpilyoako

January 25th, 2010, 06:35 PM

i can feel noynoy aquino here. geez.:ohno:

hydraulics

January 26th, 2010, 12:23 AM

olineil

January 26th, 2010, 12:40 AM

why is it so hard for you to understand. you cant apply BRT to cebu city because cebu city is very small, we even have reclamations because we are running out of space. we cant expand anywhere because on your front is sea and on your back is mountain, think about it. LAND AREA! LAND AREA! LAND AREA! PUT THAT IN YOUR BRAIN! cebu city has to be MINIMALIST!!!

why don't you put this in your brain instead. ITDP & Wolrd Bank doesnt think so. That in itself says more than enough. You don't support brt but you support at grade lrt? Where is your consistency when you say Cebu doesnt have enough space? At grade lrt will occupy same or more space than brt. Nuf said. :)

olineil

January 26th, 2010, 12:48 AM

RonnieR

January 26th, 2010, 03:18 AM

>>
>>> I hope this is true now but as far as I remember it... during the early years of MRT implementation... ridership was very low and the ticket were like more than P30-40 if you go end to end. They were not able to compete with the buses because the bus fare was way lower and people still chose to use the buses. So if you think that's the case... why o why doesn't the MRT and LRTA increase their fare? Here is the thing... as per mentioned here, MRT fare without subsidy should actually be P63 (cant find the exact fare... it should be around there), anyway if they increase the fare then of course the the government will lower it's subsidy engagement(which I prefer)... hindi naman pwede na i-increase nila yung fare tapos ganon pa rin kalaki yung subsidy ng government. Now the question is how could MRT earn when even if you increase the fare it will still end up to be P63 total... so lugi pa rin. I think the problem with MRT is inefficient ang business sytem nila... there is problem somewhere where money gets wasted for nothing kaya lugi. The other potential solution is to minimize or totally replace the traditional bus & Jeepney system with BRT para yun lang ang choice ng tao sa EDSA... this could potentially result to a profitable MRT & BRT in EDSA. Of course MRT should increase their train frequency and the train lengths para mas efficient ang movement ng tao.

Agree!

i can feel noynoy aquino here. geez.:ohno:

You're talking of 1999 when MRT started its operations. Our GDP has doubled since then! Metro Manila's GDP per capita is now at least $6,000 but some put it at $10,000 per capita. In 1999, minimum wage was P180/day and now it's P350/day. Things have changed my friend. :)

You might be surprised why superpiloako mentioned Noynoy. He is perceived as anti-LRT/MRT since he wants to investigate LRT South Extension just now because he is running for president despite the fact that this project has been reviewed/discussed/approved years ago. So in effect, Noynoy's investigation is in "aid of election" instead of "in aid of legislation".

RonnieR

January 26th, 2010, 04:26 AM

^^olineil: I post this new and related issue for your reference on urban/rural poverty.

RP must close gap between urban, rural

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Tuesday, 26 January 2010 00:00
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BY JUAN T. GATBONTON Editorial Consultant

We Filipinos have always believed our country’s so fertile that if you stuck a stick anywhere in its soil it would grow. This is why the most recent Social Weather Stations (SWS) report that involuntary hunger in our country is reaching record levels gives you quite a jolt.

Yet that is just what Mahar Mangahas’s bright survey group found in its early December sounding of the national condition: “Almost one in four Filipino households reported itself going hungry in the past three months.”

Some 4.4 million households—24 percent of the total—said that “they experienced hunger at least once in the past three months.” Of this number, 4.7 percent said they were hungry “often” or “always” during the quarter.

Through the distance of decades, I recall the scientist Dr. Rodolfo Florentino of the Food and Nutrition Research Institute, who in the late 1970s—when “Operation Timbang” revealed malnutrition to be both severe and widespread among young Filipino children—would wryly say, “There is enough food to go around—but only if it’s distributed equally.”

Poverty still largely rural
The reality of growing hunger is shocking all the more because most of the Filipino poor still are rural people.

Arsenio Balisacan, the University of the Philippines economist whose field is poverty studies, notes that “despite rapid urbanization in recent years, poverty in the Philippines is still a largely rural phenomenon. Nearly two thirds of our poor live in rural areas, with the large majority of them dependent on agriculture for employment and income.”

Unlike neighbor-economies, whose growth has been both higher and sustained longer, our economy still hasn’t expanded enough to bridge the gap between its urban and rural sectors.

Our economy still has many characteristics of the colonial “dual economy.” This is an economy in which modern industries, mines or plantation agriculture exist side-by-side with backward sectors, with little interaction between them.

Our urban and rural sectors have few linkages and there is minimal technology transfer from the advanced to the backward sector. One telling detail is that only one out of three Philippine enterprises makes use of the banking system.

No trickle down
Our policy failure was to carry on with capital-intensive import-substituting industrialization long after our neighbors had switched to labor-intensive exports.

By so doing, we cut off the mutually beneficial linkages between agriculture and industry, constricted job opportunities and concentrated the benefits of development on the landowning, industrial and professional elite.

Until now, our economy’s fastest-growing components—labor export and its domestic counterpart, business-process outsourcing (BPO)—are enclave industries.

Similarly, our biggest exports, of electronic components and finished garments, have negligible effects on the home economy.
We import the raw materials, then reexport the assembled components. Agricultural exports account for less than 5 percent of our foreign earnings.

Highly unequal society
One reason income inequality among us is so high is that growth is so narrowly based. Metro Manila and its two satellite regions, Central Luzon and Southern Tagalog, produce 65 percent of domestic output and income. And while the center of modernization may be bringing “spread effects” to neighboring regions, those regions more distant actually experience “backwash,” as the modern economy sucks away both their capital and their most enterprising inhabitants.

In 2006, the richest 10 percent of Filipinos enjoyed roughly 23 times more income than the poorest 10 percent. Since the recession is raising poverty levels worldwide, our income gap may have risen even more since then. In South Korea, by comparison, the income gap between the highest and the lowest 10th is roughly eight to one.

Stepchild of development
We’ve been treating agriculture as the stepchild of development—though in the rest of East Asia agrarian reform became the foundation of industrial development. Yet manufacturing—on which our would-be modernizers placed their hopes of jobs and development—is in long-term decline. Even in the electronics and semiconductor devices sector, we should move up to higher-value manufacturing.

Right now, our biggest problem is how to employ 2.8 million undereducated and largely rural young people unable to fill the jobs the modern economy generates. (Call centers hire no more than 3 percent to 5 percent of all the applicants they interview.)

Turned in on itself in a kind of “shared poverty,” farming still employs over a third of all our workers—though it contributes less than a 10th of yearly growth.

The modernization we strive for should include industrializing our agricultural systems and processes. Not only must agriculture feed successive Filipino generations. It must also exploit export markets in rising industrial economies opening up through globalization.

There are newly rich consumers for high-value agricultural products in fast-developing powers such as China, South Korea and India.

Narrowing gap
The two halves of our dual economy, we must bring together by developing industries that use our agricultural raw materials. We should stop competing on lower costs or higher productivity. Instead, we must turn to high-value crops and fisheries. Our scientists in these fields are apparently among the best in the world.

South Korea reached its economic eminence by its dynamic concept of comparative advantage. We should seek our own global niche: low-cost manufacturing isn’t where we’re competitive. But before we can do that, we must give our poor the human capital—the foundation of good health and basic education—they need to make the best use of their lives.
http://www.manilatimes.net/index.php/top-stories/10336-rp-must-close-gap-between-urban-rural

Sorry for being OT

TagaCebu

January 26th, 2010, 05:49 AM

Let me add this to put in your brain too..you see the bang for the buck of BaRaT.

All I can see is BARAT for BRT!
You know what you get when you are BARAT,
I rather be BORAT not BARAT of Cebuskastan.
http://www.theradreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/116215165108_borat2.jpg
Again, What is your problem?
It is part of the national project of DOTC.
If they can do it in Manila, why should we stop them from doing it here!

TagaCebu

January 26th, 2010, 11:22 AM

Let me add this to put in your brain...alloted budget for Bicol International Airport to be built in my home city! .. you see the bang for the buck of brt.
SFWAhXi_Ncs
We need hydraulics to compute the LRT sustainable structure strenght.

TWK90

January 26th, 2010, 11:50 AM

I was just wondering on the ridership of Transjakarta, with the 6.8 Million passengers transported or let's say, an annualized of 81.6 Million that rode Transjakarta in 2009 with 124 kms. in road length. This is the reason why the city government is pushing for their very first MRT. The traffic jam in Jakarta is getting worse.

This really pales in comparison versus the 149 Million that rode the LRT system in Manila for the same period in 2009. LRT 1 and 2 cover 29 kms. of road length. You still have to add MRT 3, which has more ridership than LRT. MRT (17 kms.) has at least 450,000 passengers per day, or an annual ridership of 162 Million. So, LRT and MRT both carried at least 311 Million passengers in 2009 for the 46 kms. road length. This will increase further this year once the loop of LRT connecting MRT will be completed. :)

sources: LRT 1 ridership hits all-time high at 149.44 M in 2009
By EMMIE V. ABADILLA
January 7, 2010, 2:43pm

The Light Rail Transit Authority (LRTA)’s 2009 ridership totalled 149.44 million passengers for the Baclaran-Monumento Line (Line 1), breaking the highest record of 145.83 million passengers set half a decade ago, in 1994, LRTA Administrator Melquiades Robles announced.
http://www.mb.com.ph/articles/237324/lrt-1-ridership-hits-alltime-high-14944-m-2009

BRT in my opinion, is just a preliminary measure of introducing proper public transport.

In busy corridors, rail is definitely preferred.

In Kuala Lumpur, the riderships for the two LRT lines in 2008 are as following :

Kelana Jaya line (29 km) : 58 million

Ampang line (27 km) : 51 million

For monorail, it was 21 million in 2008.

Sky Harbor

January 26th, 2010, 12:02 PM

My only concern with a BRT system on C-5 is its lack of connectivity to the rest of the SRTS. So far, it will only connect to the SRTS at Katipunan, and even then I bet the stations will not be seamlessly connected. There really needs to be development of additional interchanges with the SRTS before thinking of developing a corridor that would be dependent solely on C-5 commuter traffic.

kratos1211

January 26th, 2010, 01:25 PM

This really pales in comparison versus the 149 Million that rode the LRT system in Manila for the same period in 2009. LRT 1 and 2 cover 29 kms. of road length. You still have to add MRT 3, which has more ridership than LRT. MRT (17 kms.) has at least 450,000 passengers per day, or an annual ridership of 162 Million. So, LRT and MRT both carried at least 311 Million passengers in 2009 for the 46 kms. road length. This will increase further this year once the loop of LRT connecting MRT will be completed. :)

Correction:
LRT1 is 149.44 Million passenger and LRT2 is 62 Million passenger
Total of 211 Million passengers for the LRT System + MRT3 of 150 million passengers for a overall 2009 passengers carried on both system at 363 million passengers

source Yellow Line (http://www.lrta.gov.ph/line1_kpi.htm), Purple Line (http://www.lrta.gov.ph/line2_kpi.htm) Blue Line (http://www.dotcmrt3.gov.ph/ridership)

MatudNilaBaby

January 26th, 2010, 01:32 PM

Let me add this to put in your brain too:
LRT: $30,000,000 per kilometer
BRT: $5,000,000 per kilometer

Potential LRT subsidy per ticket P40 or more per ticket sold:

P40 x 200,000 unrealistic projected ridership per day = P8,000,000/day
P8,000,000 x 30 days = P240,000,000 per month

P240,000,000 x 12months = P2,880,000,000/ year. This is equivalent to the alloted budget for Bicol International Airport to be built in my home city!

That is P2.88b per year on top of the construction cost of $600m payable in 25 years that will eventually end up to $1.2B.

How about that to ponder upon. Your good with numbers and I believe and hope you see the bang for the buck of brt.

now this boils down to your bicol international airport over cebu's lrt/mrt project. you dont need an international airport in your home city. you just need to upgrade your airport to regional standards. cebu is ripe for a comprehensive mass transport system and the national government sees it to be viable to keep up with the growth and development in the island province.

olineil

January 26th, 2010, 01:38 PM

do you actually read this thread? Or your just cherry picking information so could justify to yourself your stance.

Those number were discussed here by either a posted article, information from sir zid who was involved in both two feasibity studies of lrt for Cebu. Gullas is pointing out that 200,000 passengers per day is projected for Cebu. Which was deemed unrealistic when the allignment proposed was t go thru osmenia blvd and Capitol area, and all the more became more unrealistic when he said he wants to make it a straight line.

Were did the 40 pesos come from? It was also posted here and that rate of subsidy is the factual amount to subsidize Manila mrt. Actual tickets for Manila mrt without subsidy is around P60. Minus the P15 the pulic is paying is equals to P45 the NG is doling out per ticket sold. My figures may not reflect the exact amount but you get the picture unless you have the brain of borat.

Now considering that the realistic passenger count is actually less than 200,000 people that is why I said the subsidy for a Cebu lrt may end up more compared to Manila since their not gonna hit the profitable amount of passengers.

Do you understand, Borat?

olineil

January 26th, 2010, 01:46 PM

now this boils down to your bicol international airport over cebu's lrt/mrt project. you dont need an international airport in your home city. you just need to upgrade your airport to regional standards. cebu is ripe for a comprehensive mass transport system and the national government sees it to be viable to keep up with the growth and development in the island province.

No it boils down to P2.88b subsidy payments every year that could be used for other infra and social projects either in your city, your province, or any other province that badly needs it. I was merely pointing out the amount to be equivalent to the budget for BIA to make it clear that its such a huge amount that can actually build other big ticket projects in other parts of the country than just paying subsidy to AMA which in the end also ends up earning 100% from the original $600m construction budget.

olineil

January 26th, 2010, 01:56 PM

BRT in my opinion, is just a preliminary measure of introducing proper public transport.

In busy corridors, rail is definitely preferred.

In Kuala Lumpur, the riderships for the two LRT lines in 2008 are as following :

Kelana Jaya line (29 km) : 58 million

Ampang line (27 km) : 51 million

For monorail, it was 21 million in 2008.

Hi TWK90. Just for comparison sake may I ask how much is you national government subsidizing per tickect sold on average from the 3 lines. If you have the information.

bakasaurus

January 26th, 2010, 02:31 PM

ferny123

January 26th, 2010, 03:03 PM

Let not this become a debate of our economy:

No I wasn't asking you. I am well aware why... it is just a figure of expression to to let out my disgust on why our beloved country had faltered too bad in the last 3 decades.

I am not stuck in the 90's as well... I am well aware that pinas had made headway economically, but wether we like it or not, or the financial community use the "Sick man of Asia" or not... we have to admit that our country's economy is not functioning very well. Our macroeconomics is being bloated by the remittances of OFW's like me. That is not a good GDP indicator. Take away the OFW remittance and you will see clearly that our manufacturing, industrial, financial, BPO, etc. industries will not carry our country to properity. Yes I have to admit the signs are heading up but it is not doing so in the full potential of our economy, thus I am calling it "SICK". Again wether we like it or not, our economy is "SICK".

You say our countries manufacturing business is getting better? How come everytime I shop around to buy some clothing... All I see is "MADE IN CAMBODIA, VIETNAM, INDONESIA, MALAYSIA, CHINA" if I want to see a "MADE IN THE PHILIPPINES" mark I need to go to the Filipino store and the sad part is there were some items there that I was sure a 100% Filipino Brand but when I looked at the source it says "MADE IN INDONESIA" how sad is that? How would you then justify that our economy is getting better when our own manufacturing base is now outsourcing it to other SEA countries?

Thus my conclusion, our countries economy is "SICK" (meaning its not well and is not producing to its potential).

i think if something is made in that country it cannot be sold there. if its a foreign brand

olineil

January 26th, 2010, 03:17 PM

You're talking of 1999 when MRT started its operations. Our GDP has doubled since then! Metro Manila's GDP per capita is now at least $6,000 but some put it at $10,000 per capita. In 1999, minimum wage was P180/day and now it's P350/day. Things have changed my friend. :)

You might be surprised why superpiloako mentioned Noynoy. He is perceived as anti-LRT/MRT since he wants to investigate LRT South Extension just now because he is running for president despite the fact that this project has been reviewed/discussed/approved years ago. So in effect, Noynoy's investigation is in "aid of election" instead of "in aid of legislation".

That's good... I'll repeat the question again. If Manila has a per capita of $6000-10,000 why then doesn't the LRTA and MRTC increase their minimum fair so that the National government can now decrease the subsidy and use it to other needed infra and social projects outside manila.

I posted this in the Cebu LRT thread:

Lets assume that P40 is the government subsidy per ticket sold. Not the exact figure but you'll get the picture:

P40 x 200,000 passengers per day (Cebu ridership projection) = P8,000,000/day

P8,000,000 x 30 days = P240,000,000 per month

P240,000,000 x 12 months = P2,880,000,000 per year of subsidy.

That is for cebu projected alone. The 3 manila lines will be humongous since its ridership is much higher.

Passenger count based on Kratos post.
LRT (yellow line)
P40 x 413,888 pax pex day = P16,555,520

P16,555,520 x 30 = P496,665,600 per month

P496,665,600 x 12 = P5,959,987,200/year

MRT (Purple)
P40 x 172,222 pax per day = P6,888,880

P6,888,880 x 30 days = P206,666,400

P206,666,400 x 12 months = P2,479,996,800/year

MRT (Blue Line)
P40 x 416,666 pax per day = P16,666,640

P16,666,640 x 30days = P499,999,200

P499,999,200 x 12 = P5,999,990,400/year

So imagine that unnecessarily high subsidy put to work on other parts of the country to spread the development and the distribution of wealth. That's all I am against with.

i can feel noynoy aquino here. geez.:ohno:
@Superpilyo: your notion is rather shallow. I am not Anti-LRT, I am anti ridiculous subsidy, and Anti-Manila Imperialism. There is way too much development in Manila to the detriment of the countryside.

^^olineil: I post this new and related issue for your reference on urban/rural poverty.

RP must close gap between urban, rural

PDFPrintE-mail

Tuesday, 26 January 2010 00:00
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BY JUAN T. GATBONTON Editorial Consultant

We Filipinos have always believed our country’s so fertile that if you stuck a stick anywhere in its soil it would grow. This is why the most recent Social Weather Stations (SWS) report that involuntary hunger in our country is reaching record levels gives you quite a jolt.

Yet that is just what Mahar Mangahas’s bright survey group found in its early December sounding of the national condition: “Almost one in four Filipino households reported itself going hungry in the past three months.”

Some 4.4 million households—24 percent of the total—said that “they experienced hunger at least once in the past three months.” Of this number, 4.7 percent said they were hungry “often” or “always” during the quarter.

Through the distance of decades, I recall the scientist Dr. Rodolfo Florentino of the Food and Nutrition Research Institute, who in the late 1970s—when “Operation Timbang” revealed malnutrition to be both severe and widespread among young Filipino children—would wryly say, “There is enough food to go around—but only if it’s distributed equally.”

Poverty still largely rural
The reality of growing hunger is shocking all the more because most of the Filipino poor still are rural people.

Arsenio Balisacan, the University of the Philippines economist whose field is poverty studies, notes that “despite rapid urbanization in recent years, poverty in the Philippines is still a largely rural phenomenon. Nearly two thirds of our poor live in rural areas, with the large majority of them dependent on agriculture for employment and income.”

Unlike neighbor-economies, whose growth has been both higher and sustained longer, our economy still hasn’t expanded enough to bridge the gap between its urban and rural sectors.

Our economy still has many characteristics of the colonial “dual economy.” This is an economy in which modern industries, mines or plantation agriculture exist side-by-side with backward sectors, with little interaction between them.

Our urban and rural sectors have few linkages and there is minimal technology transfer from the advanced to the backward sector. One telling detail is that only one out of three Philippine enterprises makes use of the banking system.

No trickle down
Our policy failure was to carry on with capital-intensive import-substituting industrialization long after our neighbors had switched to labor-intensive exports.

By so doing, we cut off the mutually beneficial linkages between agriculture and industry, constricted job opportunities and concentrated the benefits of development on the landowning, industrial and professional elite.

Until now, our economy’s fastest-growing components—labor export and its domestic counterpart, business-process outsourcing (BPO)—are enclave industries.

Similarly, our biggest exports, of electronic components and finished garments, have negligible effects on the home economy.
We import the raw materials, then reexport the assembled components. Agricultural exports account for less than 5 percent of our foreign earnings.

Highly unequal society
One reason income inequality among us is so high is that growth is so narrowly based. Metro Manila and its two satellite regions, Central Luzon and Southern Tagalog, produce 65 percent of domestic output and income. And while the center of modernization may be bringing “spread effects” to neighboring regions, those regions more distant actually experience “backwash,” as the modern economy sucks away both their capital and their most enterprising inhabitants.

In 2006, the richest 10 percent of Filipinos enjoyed roughly 23 times more income than the poorest 10 percent. Since the recession is raising poverty levels worldwide, our income gap may have risen even more since then. In South Korea, by comparison, the income gap between the highest and the lowest 10th is roughly eight to one.

Stepchild of development
We’ve been treating agriculture as the stepchild of development—though in the rest of East Asia agrarian reform became the foundation of industrial development. Yet manufacturing—on which our would-be modernizers placed their hopes of jobs and development—is in long-term decline. Even in the electronics and semiconductor devices sector, we should move up to higher-value manufacturing.

Right now, our biggest problem is how to employ 2.8 million undereducated and largely rural young people unable to fill the jobs the modern economy generates. (Call centers hire no more than 3 percent to 5 percent of all the applicants they interview.)

Turned in on itself in a kind of “shared poverty,” farming still employs over a third of all our workers—though it contributes less than a 10th of yearly growth.

The modernization we strive for should include industrializing our agricultural systems and processes. Not only must agriculture feed successive Filipino generations. It must also exploit export markets in rising industrial economies opening up through globalization.

There are newly rich consumers for high-value agricultural products in fast-developing powers such as China, South Korea and India.

Narrowing gap
The two halves of our dual economy, we must bring together by developing industries that use our agricultural raw materials. We should stop competing on lower costs or higher productivity. Instead, we must turn to high-value crops and fisheries. Our scientists in these fields are apparently among the best in the world.

South Korea reached its economic eminence by its dynamic concept of comparative advantage. We should seek our own global niche: low-cost manufacturing isn’t where we’re competitive. But before we can do that, we must give our poor the human capital—the foundation of good health and basic education—they need to make the best use of their lives.
http://www.manilatimes.net/index.php/top-stories/10336-rp-must-close-gap-between-urban-rural

Sorry for being OT

Actually thank you for posting this. It just further solidifies my defiance against ridiculous subsidies in the MRT lines in Manila. The money being spent in subsidizing tickets in Manila could have been used to extend SLEX to matnog, or NLEX to Aparri, build the Southrail to international standards, build the northrail faster and let it reach to cagayan and ilocos regions, rebuild the Panay railways, build the Mindanao Railways, build the Cebu trans-axial highway, build & upgrade more airports or whatever is deemed necessary to spread development. All this could help in developing the countryside and start spreading higher income base all over the country and not just Imperial Metro Manila. I hope you guys understand where I am getting at here. Peace!

TWK90

January 26th, 2010, 03:29 PM

Hi TWK90. Just for comparison sake may I ask how much is you national government subsidizing per tickect sold on average from the 3 lines. If you have the information.

I never heard any subsidies on LRT or monorail tickets before.

Ownership wise, the operator of the two LRT lines, RapidKL is a government owned company. RapidKL is the operator whereas the infrastructure is owned by another government owned company, Syarikat Prasarana Negara Berhad (SPNB).

RapidKL is subsidiary of SPNB.

Sky Harbor

January 26th, 2010, 03:41 PM

superpilyoako

January 26th, 2010, 03:49 PM

That's good... I'll repeat the question again. If Manila has a per capita of $6000-10,000 why then doesn't the LRTA and MRTC increase their minimum fair so that the National government can now decrease the subsidy and use it to other needed infra and social projects outside manila.

I posted this in the Cebu LRT thread:

Lets assume that P40 is the government subsidy per ticket sold. Not the exact figure but you'll get the picture:

P40 x 200,000 passengers per day (Cebu ridership projection) = P8,000,000/day

P8,000,000 x 30 days = P240,000,000 per month

P240,000,000 x 12 months = P2,880,000,000 per year of subsidy.

That is for cebu projected alone. The 3 manila lines will be humongous since its ridership is much higher.

Passenger count based on Kratos post.
LRT (yellow line)
P40 x 413,888 pax pex day = P16,555,520

P16,555,520 x 30 = P496,665,600 per month

P496,665,600 x 12 = P5,959,987,200/year

MRT (Purple)
P40 x 172,222 pax per day = P6,888,880

P6,888,880 x 30 days = P206,666,400

P206,666,400 x 12 months = P2,479,996,800/year

MRT (Blue Line)
P40 x 416,666 pax per day = P16,666,640

P16,666,640 x 30days = P499,999,200

P499,999,200 x 12 = P5,999,990,400/year

So imagine that unnecessarily high subsidy put to work on other parts of the country to spread the development and the distribution of wealth. That's all I am against with.

@Superpilyo: your notion is rather shallow. I am not Anti-LRT, I am anti ridiculous subsidy, and Anti-Manila Imperialism. There is way too much development in Manila to the detriment of the countryside.

Actually thank you for posting this. It just further solidifies my defiance against ridiculous subsidies in the MRT lines in Manila. The money being spent in subsidizing tickets in Manila could have been used to extend SLEX to matnog, or NLEX to Aparri, build the Southrail to international standards, build the northrail faster and let it reach to cagayan and ilocos regions, rebuild the Panay railways, build the Mindanao Railways, build the Cebu trans-axial highway, build & upgrade more airports or whatever is deemed necessary to spread development. All this could help in developing the countryside and start spreading higher income base all over the country and not just Imperial Metro Manila. I hope you guys understand where I am getting at here. Peace!

tinamaan ka? i didn't see your name in my previous posts...:ohno:

shallow notion. yeah right. i can feel you. you're just like the other people who mock Manila so much and it's developments. if only we can place our MRT/LRT, airports, skyways and freeways just to shut you up. kid, Manila needs it, I'm not sure if your place can handle it.:ohno:

can you imagine Manila without any of these, might as well lets just remove all the new airports in VisMin, powder SCTEX/NLEX/SLEX, balst all new bridges, derail the MRT/LRT/PNR tracks just to be fair with you.:lol:

just to remind you, Bicol will get a new international airport. it it will also be subsidized by the whole nation, together with all the other projects mentioned, it just so happened that Manila is too crowded, thus more projects should be develop.

the problem with you, you just complain so much, no wonder you're also getting some good bashing in Cebu LRT and PRT thread.

and don't you dare tag us Imperialist, but you can if you think and accept that you're really under us.:bash:

kratos1211

January 26th, 2010, 03:51 PM

You sure know how to play the game bai Olineil.:lol:

I now curious, if P60 is the actual cost per passenger ticket, then P60 x 150 million passengers of MRT3 = P9 billion a year.
MRT3 was built $600M or P30B ($1=P50 for easy computation)
Let add interest 0f 150% for 25 years to make P75B,
straight amortization for 25 year(MRT3 contract) comes to P3B/year
P9B - P3B = P6B for operation & maintenance/year
Is it really that expensive to operate a LRT? or the people behind MRT are grossly inefficient or earning big time on the side.
Or the P40 subsidy is an exageration.

olineil

January 26th, 2010, 03:51 PM

I never heard any subsidies on LRT or monorail tickets before.

Ownership wise, the operator of the two LRT lines, RapidKL is a government owned company. RapidKL is the operator whereas the infrastructure is owned by another government owned company, Syarikat Prasarana Negara Berhad (SPNB).

RapidKL is subsidiary of SPNB.

better start digging then ha? Hehehehe. There should be a subsdy somewhere. Singapore subsidizes their mrt lines ahough on a win-win ratio. Based on stdies there is no single rail line in the planet that is not subsidized. I just differs on how much subsidy is provided.

olineil

January 26th, 2010, 03:53 PM

I now curious, if P60 is the actual cost per passenger ticket, then P60 x 150 million passengers of MRT3 = P9 billion a year.
MRT3 was built $600M or P30B ($1=P50 for easy computation)
Let add interest 0f 150% for 25 years to make P75B,
straight amortization for 25 year(MRT3 contract) comes to P3B/year
P9B - P3B = P6B for operation & maintenance
Is it really that expensive to operate a LRT? or the people behind MRT are grossly inefficient or earning big time on the side.

Right on!

bakasaurus

January 26th, 2010, 04:08 PM

tinamaan ka? i didn't see your name in my previous posts...:ohno:

shallow notion. yeah right. i can feel you. you're just like the other people who mock Manila so much and it's developments. if only we can place our MRT/LRT, airports, skyways and freeways just to shut you up. kid, Manila needs it, I'm not sure if your place can handle it.:ohno:

can you imagine Manila without any of these, might as well lets just remove all the new airports in VisMin, powder SCTEX/NLEX/SLEX, balst all new bridges, derail the MRT/LRT/PNR tracks just to be fair with you.:lol:

just to remind you, Bicol will get a new international airport. it it will also be subsidized by the whole nation, together with all the other projects mentioned, it just so happened that mManila is too crowded, thus more projects should be develop.

the problem with you, you just complain so much, no wonder you're also getting some good bashing in Cebu LRT and PRT thread.

and don't you dare tag us Imperialist, but you can if you think that you're really under us.:bash:

Please read up and don't get personal. Olineil is not blaming people from Manila when he says Imperial Manila. And he at least goes the extra length and effort to post intelligently and support his arguments with data or relevant facts.

I agree, the government should start spreading the wealth through our roadways and maximizing interconnectivity. This would also help Manila solve a lot of its problems (water supply, congestion, traffic, pollution, urban poor etc etc).

The fact that Metro Manila and its 2 satellite regions account for around 65% of the country's GDP is a bad sign. It can 't be helped that it has reached that status now, but it's time something should be done about it.

olineil

January 26th, 2010, 04:11 PM

tinamaan ka? i didn't see your name in my previous posts...:ohno:
shallow notion. yeah right. i can feel you. you're just like the other people who mock Manila so much and it's developments. if only we can place our MRT/LRT, airports, skyways and freeways just to shut you up. kid, Manila needs it, I'm not sure if your place can handle it.:ohno:
>>> Well isn't it the moral thing to do? Build other needed infra projects in the provinces para hindi na pumunta sa manila ang mga taga probinsya?

can you imagine Manila without any of these, might as well lets just remove all the new airports in VisMin, powder SCTEX/NLEX/SLEX, balst all new bridges, derail the MRT/LRT/PNR tracks just to be fair with you.:lol
>>>No I can't imagine Manila without such infra. Yes it is needed but the fare subsidy is just too unjust and unnecessarily high. 20-30% subsidy would be better not 80%.

just to remind you, Bicol will get a new international airport. it it will also be subsidized by the whole nation, together with all the other projects mentioned, it just so happened that mManila is too crowded, thus more projects should be develop.
>>> Exactly my point... Manila is bursting to its seams and building more infra in Manila only wont solve that over crowding. We need to develop our countryside so the exodus to Manila will be minimized. At least every region should have a regional center that can compete close to what Manila & Cebu can churn out. But how are we gonna attract investors in the the countryside when the infrastructure that support high-tech industries is only available to Metro Manila?

May I also remind you that all Bicolanos subsidize Manileños so that they pay lower electricity rate? Bicole electricity rate is P9/kwh so that you can enjoy P3/kwh there in Manila? Thats why I am so sick and tired of subsidy.

the problem with you, you just complain so much, no wonder you're also getting some good bashing in Cebu LRT and PRT thread.

and don't you dare tag us Imperialist, but you can if you think that you're really under us.:bash:
>>> No I don't complain... I speak the truth. If the truth hurts and I get bashed... I doesn't matter to me. As far as I am concerned I make credible debates over my issue and not just merely go against the proposed LRT just for the sake of opposing it. I provide other solutions to the problem and not just complain.

bakasaurus

January 26th, 2010, 04:25 PM

It's just that, the corporation that built these systems are guaranteed for their profits, and the government (the guarantor) will make sure of that. And we must make allowances for other hocus pocus as well. hehe.

I wonder though, does somebody have any data about the price elasticity of demand (PED) of MRT and LRT in Manila? People keep saying students and the bulk of riders will be affected by an increase in the fare (hence, lesser percentage of government subsidy) and the patronage as well, but I have not come across any research about this.
Of course, there are going to be complaints, but I have a feeling the bulk of the riders would still patronize the LRT and MRT even if the fares are increased a little.

superpilyoako

January 26th, 2010, 04:29 PM

>>> Well isn't it the moral thing to do? Build other needed infra projects in the provinces para hindi na pumunta sa manila ang mga taga probinsya?

which is currently what being done today. hello? you keep on talking about projects that are 10- 20 years old, long ago before the development of the countryside and balik probinsya programs started.

>>>No I can't imagine Manila without such infra. Yes it is needed but the fare subsidy is just too unjust and unnecessarily high. 20-30% subsidy would be better not 80%.

>>> Exactly my point... Manila is bursting to its seams and building more infra in Manila only wont solve that over crowding. We need to develop our countryside so the exodus to Manila will be minimized (already started). [/COLOR]At least every region should have a regional center that can compete close to what Manila & Cebu can churn out. But how are we gonna attract investors in the the countryside when the infrastructure that support high-tech industries is only available to Metro Manila? (i believe that Clark and Subic in Pampanga/ Zambales are more hi- tech than Manila and Cebu)

May I also remind you that all Bicolanos subsidize Manileños so that they pay lower electricity rate? Bicole electricity rate is P9/kwh so that you can enjoy P3/kwh there in Manila? Thats why I am so sick and tired of subsidy. (i think you also forgot to mention Cebu, you also mentioned that before when the issue about the Cebu BRT/LRT is starting, you are against another subsidized project)

>>> No I don't complain... I speak the truth. If the truth hurts and I get bashed... I doesn't matter to me. As far as I am concerned I make credible debates over my issue and not just merely go against the proposed LRT just for the sake of opposing it. I provide other solutions to the problem and not just complain.

then if you're so sick and tired, go and live here, because for now, no one can solve your issue.:)

TagaCebu

January 26th, 2010, 09:02 PM

....Of course, there are going to be complaints, but I have a feeling the bulk of the riders would still patronize the LRT and MRT even if the fares are increased a little.
If the fare increase case is for the uncomfortable, shaky, crowded, smoke
belching ride, buses will be abandoned like the Kaoshiung. A jeepney is more
efficient and practical. The reason IS that RUSH HOUR does not happen the
whole day. Mepz2 - Employee Shuttle is even better than BRT.
http://www.cebu-people-express.com/images/042c789a9d1140b0a_sbp.jpg
LRT however is an infrastructure on line with Cebu City fast growing urbanization.
Cebuanos are not, not, not BARATOT("cheapskate").
Our Home is Cebu. Who cares about other airports.
We have Hotels that proud Cebuanos cannot even afford.
We can buy and eat at places comparable, cleaner and better than any western Malls.
So we are wishing to ride LRT more expensive
than any SUV or car, the richest Cebuano can buy.
What is the problem with subsidy? Our taxes pay Mayor Osmena, Mr. Zid.,
everybody in government and their pet projects.
Cebu wants LRT which image we can be proud of.
Take that cheap BARATOT("cheapskate") somewhere else.
They built NRP and SRP but against LRT which will benefit us!

kalbongdad

January 27th, 2010, 01:12 AM

too much ado about nothing....di ba nag decide na ang cebu city na brt...out na lrt?....:lol:

Maxxclip

January 27th, 2010, 01:14 AM

No I don't complain... I speak the truth.

you're not complaining... so what is the truth?

TagaCebu

January 27th, 2010, 03:05 AM

KAHIBULONGAN DILI TAGA ATO-A AYAW NILANG LRT SA CEBU.
kADOGO NI LAPU-LAPU SULTI-AN NATO SILA ULI MO SA INYOHA.
MGA BISDAK BANTUGON NATO ANG TAGA MAYNILA,LUZON
UG MGA SU-YA SA CEBU

(1)olineil zerocool
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Legazpi City|NJ, USA
Posts: 43 says: why don't you put this in your brain instead. ITDP & Wolrd Bank doesnt think so....Cebu doesnt have enough space? At grade lrt will occupy same or more space than brt. Nuf said.
__________________
"In Honor of Former Senator Raul Roco, One of the Best Presidents we never had...." Born:October 26, 1941 Naga, Camarines Sur
Roco was married to Sonia Cubillo Malasarte, who is from Bohol.

(2)kalbongdad bald meat
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: pangasinan at the moment
Posts: 1,201
too much ado about nothing....di ba nag decide na ang cebu city na brt...out na lrt?....:lol:

kalbongdad
posts a lot in Metro Manila LRT and MRT Lines Thread 16.. ..
Hopefully he is not discouraging LRT in Cebu. the LOL emphasized is not favorable.
mukhang doable ang partial opening...dahil ang mga bubong ng dun sa may bal market nakakalahati na....
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php p=50775655&highlight=#post50775655

RonnieR

January 27th, 2010, 03:18 AM

olineil: It is odd that when LRT was approved for Cebu, people from Manila never complained about this huge project for that city but the complaints came from people in Cebu including you.

As cited in the report, there is really a problem in wealth distribution in this country. The poorest region in the country is found in Southern Mindanao. When Pres. Arroyo built huge infrastructures in Luzon, Visayas and Mindanao, not a single complaint was heard from the capital. In fact, we are very happy that finally, there is a President who takes care of development outside the capital. She travels a lot to the provinces and your province will have a new international airport as well.

So, why can't we just accept the LRT in Cebu, the BRT, and all other infrastructures rather than hitting on subsidy issues. Once all these infrastructures are in place, the standard of living of the people will improve, more businesses will come, more employment and our economy will grow.

RonnieR

January 27th, 2010, 03:25 AM

Because the rich refuse to ride the LRT, and increasing fares will risk alienating the millions of students and employees dependent on the rails for getting from point A to point B. The issue of LRT/MRT/PNR ridership demographics is less of who the target market is, but rather an attitude problem. In elite circles, it's a common conception that only the masa ride the rails, and that they rails in themselves are unsafe.

The attitude problem is transcendental across all forms of transportation: whether it may be a pedicab, tricycle, multicab, jeep, FX, minibus, bus, metro or commuter rail, the rich will refuse to ride anything other than their own cars or a taxi.

I guess you're referring to the rich who have multiple cars but the middle class or those who have one to two cars also ride the MRT/LRT. In fact, during the fuel crisis last year when price of gas hit at P62/liter, a lot of car owners rode the trains. :)

RonnieR

January 27th, 2010, 03:28 AM

Correction:
LRT1 is 149.44 Million passenger and LRT2 is 62 Million passenger
Total of 211 Million passengers for the LRT System + MRT3 of 150 million passengers for a overall 2009 passengers carried on both system at 363 million passengers

source Yellow Line (http://www.lrta.gov.ph/line1_kpi.htm), Purple Line (http://www.lrta.gov.ph/line2_kpi.htm) Blue Line (http://www.dotcmrt3.gov.ph/ridership)

Thanks for the correction. Once the loop is completed early this year, the ridership will increase. The government saw the wisdom in building more rails in metropolis. MRT 7...etc. I hope that LRT South Extension will be built by Pres. Villar (hehehe).

RonnieR

January 27th, 2010, 03:31 AM

So imagine that unnecessarily high subsidy put to work on other parts of the country to spread the development and the distribution of wealth. That's all I am against with.

@Superpilyo: your notion is rather shallow. I am not Anti-LRT, I am anti ridiculous subsidy, and Anti-Manila Imperialism. There is way too much development in Manila to the detriment of the countryside.

Actually thank you for posting this. It just further solidifies my defiance against ridiculous subsidies in the MRT lines in Manila. The money being spent in subsidizing tickets in Manila could have been used to extend SLEX to matnog, or NLEX to Aparri, build the Southrail to international standards, build the northrail faster and let it reach to cagayan and ilocos regions, rebuild the Panay railways, build the Mindanao Railways, build the Cebu trans-axial highway, build & upgrade more airports or whatever is deemed necessary to spread development. All this could help in developing the countryside and start spreading higher income base all over the country and not just Imperial Metro Manila. I hope you guys understand where I am getting at here. Peace!

So, why the objection of LRT and BRT combined in Cebu? I support this move so Cebu, the 2nd largest after Metro Manila in economics scale, will have its own share of huge infra projects. Don't bother on the subsidy as long as Cebu will grow. In the years to come, these subsidies will eventually decrease.

There is an on-going project of TLEX or Tarlac La Union Expressway. Once it is completed, travel to Baguio would be cut by half from 6 hours to 3 hours. It is connected from NLEX to TLEX or from NLEX - SCTEX - TLEX.

bakasaurus

January 27th, 2010, 04:15 AM

Now this is getting too personal bai. I am a Cebuano but I somehow don't find your rally call very appealing and moving. In a way, these people are also from the provinces outside of Manila and they are in better position to understand us.

Please continue arguing with the merits of the LRT. But stop this singling out and the personal tirades. Non-Cebuanos are always free to post here.

RonnieR

January 27th, 2010, 04:29 AM

mAiNsTrEaMhunter

January 27th, 2010, 04:44 AM

IMO lang ha. hindi kasi pwede magkasabay ang LRT and BRT sa cebu ngayon dahil sa ridership sir @ron. and i believe you know that sir ron. cebu needs to decide which should go first. the more expensive LRT or the more practical BRT. the question here is which one should go first ba. me, and the rest of my friends here in SSC-Cebu are one in saying that we are not TOTALLY against the LRT proposal. ang amin lang kasi ang practically at this point in time. medyo hindi pa gaano ka rami ang tao sa cebu para masupportahan ang ganito ka mahal na infrastructure project. what? will we wait for 5-10 years para magtriple yung populasyon sa buong metro cebu para masabi namin na nagcomplement na talaga ang BRT and LRT namin dito? na walang nalulugi sa dalawa? no hindi pwede yun. dapat hinay2x muna. for sure kung sasabay itong dalawang ito, meron talagang malulugi at sayang talaga ang pera ng taumbayan. ;)

id say they don't complement each other at this point because both proposals traverses the same route. there should only be one public transport that will serve one single route at hindi dalawa kasi ang tendency nyan merong mawawalan ng pasehero sa dalawa. malulugi yung isang transpo operation so baka sa bandang huli pagsisisihan pa namin kung bakit dalawa yung nagaagawan ng ridership and eventually, merong isa na magsusuffer dahil nalulugi ito sa kabila. yun lang. :)

kiretoce

January 27th, 2010, 04:46 AM

Post away folks! :colgate:

Link to Thread 1 (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=589987&page=51) in the Archives. :okay:

x12y12

January 27th, 2010, 05:28 AM

ok po. .... ganito... brt muna kasi hindi pa kaya ng bulsa ng gobyerno ang mrt/lrt.... kung kaya man sana there is a question of population to support mrt/lrt kasi kung puro subisidy na naman ang gagawin ng gobyerno walang patutungunguhan ang bansang ito.... lalaki na namn mga utang natin eh baon na nga tayo sa utang....wag nga tayo masyadong tumingin sa labas. ayusin muna natin kung ano kailngan ng bansa sa ngayon... now we can think of long term plan(mrt/lrt). I think ang kailngan ngaun is i set muna ang path for mrt in the future... then pag me pera na at medyo nababyaran na natin utang sa labas at tsaka tayo magngangawa tungkol sa aesthetic. system muna baguhin bago aesthetic. brt can work.. its a known fact. isip isip muna bago pulitika...

yun po ciao=)

TagaCebu

January 27th, 2010, 05:54 AM

too much ado about nothing....di ba nag decide na ang cebu city na brt...out na lrt?....:lol:

out na lrt?....:lol: <---arguing with the merits of the LRT

Now this is getting ...bai. ....Please continue arguing with the merits of the LRT. But stop this singling out and the personal tirades.

You're a real Cebuano, malambing mahia-on.
Transparency does not mean singling out or getting personal.
THERE ARE LIMITS TO DIVERSITY.
A relief of tensions through diplomacy and confidence building measures assumes bilateral response.

Peace is achieved for fear of mutual destruction.

TagaCebu

January 27th, 2010, 10:08 AM

ok po. .... ganito... brt muna kasi..... brt can work.. its a known fact. isip isip muna bago pulitika...
This is not a known fact!
BUT THIS IS THE TRUTH !!!
Despite its remarkable accomplishments over the past quarter-century,
it is clear that Curitiba's public transportation must pursue a new direction
in order to reverse the current downward trend. The city government is well
aware of this need, and wants to include surface LRT as part of its program
to improve service quality and compete more effectively with private autos.
Curitiba Mayor Cássio Taniguchi announcedthat a 19.5-km (12.1-mi) Metrô Leve ("Light Metro")
LRT line would be built along the Eixo Norte-Sul, replacing bi-articulated buses. (http://www.publictransit.us/ptlibrary/specialreports/sr1.curitibaBRT.pdf) <--click to read the facts.
====================

Rather than aesthetics, it is the image.
Kahit kubo ang bahay, buying Levi's maybe the first buy with the first pay !
The concept of infrastructure like bridges, highways and LRT
is not to save but to direct the economy.
If Mahmoud Ahmadinejad decides to put a dirty nukes
at Strait of Hormuz, there goes the fossil fueled transportation.
The Cebu City government can prioritized geothermal energy
to run the LRT and other strategic businesses.
In fact, Cebuanos are paying more money for fuel than any parts of
the country today. Of which, the city has never solved.

A small fishing town for example cannot afford
thereby will you build a bamboo bridge?
All politicians will promise that before elections.
===================================
http://www.calgarytransit.com/pdf/Calgary_CTrain_Effective_Capital_Utilization.pdf
LRT Success Story
LRT was selected because it would provide a cost effective means
of delivering an attractive, high capacity service with a higher level of reliability,
speed and comfort compared to conventional bus service.

x12y12

January 27th, 2010, 12:24 PM

yes. its. go to china to see it for yourself.

what your talking about is just 1 country. go elsewhere to see if they have the same outcome. dont generalize something just because 1/100 failed. think also of the system that they implemented kung bakit ganun ang outcome nila.

but do we have the money now. we need a mass transport now. thats the question now? even this brt can materialize in 4-5 years time. what more lrt??? another question is kaya ba ng population ng cebu an ishoulder ang cost of operation meaning if they need to increase the ticket cost para kahit break even alng, akkayanin ba o subsidy na nman ng government to.,..as I've said before utang utang na tayo. kung kayan ng cebu government na ishoulder ito then thats good but if not and aasa na naman sa national government para ma augment ang operation then how?/

look at germany, very nice DB trains whatever. but do you think its profiting or even break even lang .... No. Its highly sibsidies by the government. Hindi tayo ganun kayaman para amg subsidies ng subsidies. even with the population of 90 mil german can't support this. kumikita lang sila dahil sa transfere of goods thru railway system kaya at least medyo hindi pabigat. and lrt is just mass transport not transfer of goods.

ok equation

cebu = booming ecomony = mass transport urgent= lrt/brt= population?=cost of operation? = cebe government can shoulder?

china = booming econmy= mass transport = lrt/brt = no question about poplution = no problem about cost of operation because of their poplution and econmy

germany = rich country = logistic hub for the continental europe= population cans support = government can shoulder

greenshields

January 27th, 2010, 12:34 PM

Why stop LRT in Cebu? BRT and LRT surely will make Cebu a better place for everyone.

Well said. Regardless of what's built first or what Cebu City (or Metro Cebu) chooses...we should advocate for an efficient and effective public transport system for the city. The same applies to other cities in the Philippines that require better transport systems than tricycles, multi-cabs and jeepneys.

greenshields

January 27th, 2010, 12:40 PM

It would indeed be nice for a BRT system to be finally constructed and operational in the Philippines. Metro Manila was the first to conduct studies (thru USAID) but failed to follow through (not thanks to MMDA). Cebu now is doing its own studies (thru WB) parallel with a strategic public transport study for the metropolitan area (thru DOTC). There are a lot of questions or issues articulated in other threads most notably in the Cebu LRT thread here and there are really good points on both sides of the table (i.e., LRT vs BRT). We can only watch and hope that the government (both the national and local levels) don't bungle opportunities to improve public transport by letting politics and other interests drown the merits of a proposed system like BRT.

hydraulics

January 27th, 2010, 01:36 PM

why don't you put this in your brain instead. ITDP & Wolrd Bank doesnt think so. That in itself says more than enough. You don't support brt but you support at grade lrt? Where is your consistency when you say Cebu doesnt have enough space? At grade lrt will occupy same or more space than brt. Nuf said. :)

goodluck!

x12y12

January 27th, 2010, 01:39 PM

sureness my dear....kung me pera gobyerno mo. very efficient yang sinsabi mo(brt+lrt) kung angkop ang population mo. pero kung parang taxi lang yan na tumatakbo ang metro kahit aaalog alog. maawa ka naman sa future ng sambyanan. utang ulit most likely

mano bang amghintay tayo ng konti pag medyo kaya na ng gobyerno(for lrt). eh medyo naghihintay na pasahero mo. eh di mag brt muna.

Sleepwalker

January 27th, 2010, 01:44 PM

^^As per a post before, having LRT in Cebu is just like buying a car, but can not be used later due to lack of fund to buy fuel or for maintainance... :)

If not carefully planned, LRT in Cebu would just become a liability than an asset.

superpilyoako

January 27th, 2010, 03:30 PM

superpilyoako

January 27th, 2010, 04:22 PM

we here are so in favor in either BRT or LRT for Cebu. but on a personal thought, mukang mas ok muna ang BRT becase of ridership issues nga, and eventually Cebu can add another(LRT).

too bad someone really just can understand this.

and he's also causing us headache on the Manila thread.

geez.

olineil

January 27th, 2010, 05:01 PM

I am not against Cebu lrt totally perse. I am against it being built when a better & fitting solution presents itself (that is BRT). Better and fitting in a sense that it is economically viable at our current state of economy and per capita GDP. Isn't it better if the $600M proposed budget for Cebu lrt be used to build a metro wide BRT system for Cebu rather than a 14 or so kilometer only. Saying this, operating it at little to no subsidy and potentially making money rather than loosing during operation? Why build it now when we all know that is gonna be a liability rather than an economic asset?

Did I say I am against infrastructure projects in the provinces. Do you see post in other infra projects to just go against it? I support Mindanao railways, BIA, sctex, etc. Heck do you even see me post anything against Manila mrt on the thread itself? If I point out the flaws of it on the Cebu lrt thread, that is because I want to show to the people interested about building an lrt in Cebu that it is not feasible for now. Metro Manila has 12 million plus residents with 3 lrt/mrt lines but that population couldn't even make it profitable. How much more can a metro Cebu population of only 1 million plus support a $600m project with a projected P2.88b annual subsidy support it to profitability. That is why I support BRT. It is economical, practical, and more holistic( ty t@gacebu) than an LRT line. That's all folks.

superpilyoako

January 27th, 2010, 05:12 PM

I am not against Cebu lrt totally perse. I am against it being built when a better & fitting solution presents itself (that is BRT). Better and fitting in a sense that it is economically viable at our current state of economy and per capita GDP. Isn't it better if the $600M proposed budget for Cebu lrt be rated used to build a metro wide BRT system for Cebu rather than a 14 or so kilometer only. Saying operating it at little to no subsidy and potentially making money rather than loosing during operation? Why build it now when we all know that is gonna be a liability rather than an economic asset?

Did I say I am against infrastructre projects in the provinces. Do you see post in other infra projects to just go against it? I support Mindanao railways, BIA, sctex, etc. Heck do you even see me post anything against Manila mrt on the thread itself? If I point out the flaws of it on the Cebu lrt thread, that is because I want to show to the people interested about building an let in Cebu that it is not feasible for now. Metro Manila has 12 million plus residents with 3 lrt/mrt lines but that population couldn't even make profitable. How much more can a metro Cebu population of only 1 million plus support a $600m project with a projected P2.88b annual subsidy support it to profitability. That is why I support BRT. It is economical, practical, and more holistic( ty t@gacebu) than a n LRT line. That's all folks.

geez.

how many times?:ohno:

the LRT in Cebu is just a proposal (a thread was just made for that).

what they'll have is a BRT sytem (approved).:cheers:

BRT will be effective and Cebu (i'll bet on this).:banana:

and how many times should we tell you that the MM LRT/MRT are not flops?

they're profitable (beacuse they theyre just flops, then the system will just shut down- MEANING DOUBLE FLOP, and Metro Manila will just end up in flip- flops- HAVAIANAS, IPANEMA and DUPE Lines):lol:

(i wonder if you really understand it or you just wanna accept it?):ohno:

another geez for you.

superpilyoako

January 27th, 2010, 05:15 PM

to you (you know who you are):

geez.

how many times?

the LRT in Cebu is just a proposal (a thread was just made for that).

what they'll have is a BRT sytem (approved).

BRT will be effective and Cebu (i'll bet on this).

and how many times should we tell you that the MM LRT/MRT are not flops?

they're profitable (beacuse they theyre just flops, then the system will just shut down- MEANING DOUBLE FLOP, and Metro Manila will just end up in flip- flops- HAVAIANAS, IPANEMA and DUPE Lines)

(i wonder if you really understand it or you just wanna accept it?)

another geez for you.

olineil

January 27th, 2010, 07:57 PM

geez.

how many times?:ohno:

the LRT in Cebu is just a proposal (a thread was just made for that).

what they'll have is a BRT sytem (approved).:cheers:

BRT will be effective and Cebu (i'll bet on this).:banana:

and how many times should we tell you that the MM LRT/MRT are not flops?

they're profitable (beacuse they theyre just flops, then the system will just shut down- MEANING DOUBLE FLOP, and Metro Manila will just end up in flip- flops- HAVAIANAS, IPANEMA and DUPE Lines):lol:

(i wonder if you really understand it or you just wanna accept it?):ohno:

another geez for you.

Hayyyy....:bash:

I know it is just a proposal but it does pose a threat to the loan possibilities to build the BRT. And it is counter productive for Gullas to peddle this project to the Public and keeps on saying that it will be at no cost to the National Government. That definitely not true! For the BRT to succeed completely it needs the major support of the public and the local governments. But what Gullas is doing is counter productive to the rather already fast moving project of BRT... it will just add an unnecessary impediment to this great project.

Who told you that MRT/LRT in Manila is earning money? Just because LRTA has positive income doesn't mean it is profitable. The point that the government needs to heavily subsidize the tickets means it is loosing. It is because of this guarantee clause that it is earning money. Yes LRTA has positive income but at least 80% of that came from your taxes and the rest of the Filipinos. Which part of that don't you understand? I didn't say shut it down just because it's loosing money... don't put words in my mouth... it's already there so just keep on using it. I am merely pointing out the flaw of the Business Model of the LRT/MRT and I believe that there is a better Win-Win solution for the current condition. Meaning:

1. Government still subsidizes it but at a lower rate.
2. Increase the fares to a realistic level.
3. Find inefficiencies in the system so as to eliminate waste.
4. Improve it's image and service so that all classes of society will use it.

Just to mention a few....

All these will definitely add to the profitability of the system and thereby actually becoming an economic asset rather than an liability.

olineil

January 27th, 2010, 08:07 PM

olineil

January 27th, 2010, 08:32 PM

I'd like to continue posting about BRT here and would like to keep it as civil as possible to everyone and stop wasting time doing BRT vs. LRT. I'd like to see intelligent questions about the system and what are benefits it can bring to our country's cities. I am gonna stop posting anymore on the other thread so that they can have a LRT party there and we'll have our BRT party over here.

To start with: From Transmilenio Thread over at Colombia Forum:

En fin...

Pongo esto como para ir reactivando el foro:

TRONCAL CALLE 26

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COMO SABEN ESTE NO ES EL DISEÑO FINAL DE ESTE TRAMO. EL DISEÑO FINAL DEL PLAN MAESTRO DEL AEROPUERTO ES EL QUE LO DEFINE.

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PORTAL EN EL SEPARADOR DE LA VÍA. COMO SE VE SE,SE MEJORARÁN LAS ZONAS VERDES.

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ALIMENTADORES A LA TERMINAL DE TRANSPORTES Y A LA ZONA COMERCIAL Y RESIDENCIAL DE EL SALITRE

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MEJORA DEL ESPACIO PUBLICO (PLAZOLETAS)

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AQUI SE HUNDIRÁ LA CALLE 26 DESDE PASANDO LA 30 HASTA CASI COLSUBSIDIO. EL PUENTE DE LAS AMERICAS SE ELIMINA. HABRÁ UN GRAN PARQUE ENTRE EL CONCEJO Y LA CLINICA SAN PEDRO CLAVER

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ESTACION Q CONECTARÁ LAS TRONCALES 26 Y CARACAS. GRAN TAMAÑO, CON BAHIAS PARA TAXIS.

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ESTA DIAPOSITIVA CAMBIÓ. SEGUN PARECE, EL PARQUE DEL BICENTENARIO HARÁ QUE SE HUNDA LA 26 ENTRE LA CARACAS Y LA QUINTA, UNIENDO POR ZONAS VERDES EL CEMENTERIO CENTRAL Y EL PARQUE DE LA INDEPENDENCIA

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ESTACIÓN CONECTADA POR TUNEL PEATONAL CON LA ESTACION DE LAS AGUAS (ZONA J)

TRONCAL CARRERA DÉCIMA

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http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/1404/64037646bo2.jpg

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/2223/78475449sx4.jpg

Este es el portal (o estación terminal) de esta troncal. Quedará en la localidad de San Cristóbal cerca a uno de los más grandes templos de la ciudad (el del 20 de julio). Tendrá plaza ferial y CADE (lugar donde se pueden pagar todos los servicios públicos y otros servicios del distrito). El terreno estaba ocupado por una fábrica de tubos.

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/9674/25803388xi6.jpg

Aqui ven como es el diseño de la avenida así como el de la calle de acceso al portal, que será por tunel.

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/5476/49649634vy2.jpg

Aqui llegarán servicios alimentadores que servirán a varios barrios hacia el este de la estación.

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/5976/86552364rv9.jpg

Esta estación ya estaba en otro post pero la pongo de nuevo. También llegarán servicios alimentadores aqui. El acceso a la estación podrá hacerse a través de un puente peatonal sobre un nuevo intercambiador vehicular.

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/5711/64953018ui2.jpg

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/3280/67411232kn5.jpg

En esta imagen se ve una de las intersecciones más usadas peatonalmente en la ciudad. Su diseño contempla una estación para evitar el desplazamiento hasta la estación Av.Jimenez de la linea Caracas.

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/1493/010oo8.jpg

Esta será la estación terminal provisional por el lado norte. Si se decide rodar Transmilenio por la Av.Carrera Septima, esta será solo una estación más. Pero si se hace metro u otro modo de transporte, sería la ultima estación de la Décima hacia el norte.

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/4407/72780957kv3.jpg

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/5758/011km5.jpg

La estación será la unica en el sistema que estará ubicada bajo tierra totalmente, con respiraderos en un corredor ambiental que se ubicará por encima, al nivel de la avenida. Se diseñó de esta manera por el corto ancho de la avenida y para no afectar los bienes culturales proximos como el Museo Nacional.

olineil

January 27th, 2010, 08:34 PM

Source: (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=935364&page=2)

Más renders de la estación Museo Nacional en el Centro Internacional (Troncal Carrera 10ma) y los de Estación Central:

Estación Museo Nacional | Espacio Público:

Desde la torre Colpatria

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/IzacBlue/ESTMUSEO04.jpg

Desde el Hotel Tequendama:

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/IzacBlue/ESTMUSEO05.jpg

Desde el Hotel Ibis:

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/IzacBlue/ESTMUSEO06.jpg

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/IzacBlue/ESTMUSEO07.jpg

Desde Ciudadela San Martín:

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/IzacBlue/ESTMUSEO11.jpg

Desde el Museo Nacional:

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/IzacBlue/ESTMUSEO08.jpg

Desde Parque Central Bavaria:

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/IzacBlue/ESTMUSEO09.jpg

Desde el ex-R&S:

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/IzacBlue/ESTMUSEO10.jpg

Desde la iglesia de San Diego:

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/IzacBlue/ESTMUSEO14.jpg

Estación Central:

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/2069/est26.jpg

http://www.bogota.gov.co/portel/libreria/jpg/estacion-central-01.jpg

http://s3.amazonaws.com/elespectador/files/images/mar2009/254cd23f5895cf26d6eae8e7dc6a51a3.jpg

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/5562/estacioncentralbogota.png

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/534/nuevabogota.png

superpilyoako

January 27th, 2010, 09:05 PM

:ohno:
Why don't you just debate intelligently rather than get personal?

Here's for you to think about and the other one over here: watch at 2:25-2:51 if you are interested.

cFGPWULpmAI

i think this is too much for you.

everyone is debating with you.

so i don't you if you really understand us or what.

thank you by the way for your invitation, but no thanks.

i had enough of this.

masyado na tayong makulit.

eh obvious naman na ang issue is on subsidy.

how about this, you go here, lets have some chat or beer, than we can talk about your sentiments.

and if you like, you can stay here, para atleast you can enjoy the subsidy.

the end sir.

TagaCebu

January 28th, 2010, 08:15 AM

....they're profitable (beacuse they theyre just flops, then the system will just shut down- MEANING DOUBLE FLOP, and Metro Manila will just end up in flip- flops- HAVAIANAS, IPANEMA and DUPE Lines)
....i think this is too much for you.
....everyone is debating with you.
....so i don't you if you really understand us or what.
...thank you by the way for your invitation, but no thanks.
...i had enough of this.
...masyado na tayong makulit.
...eh obvious naman na ang issue is on subsidy.
...how about this, you go here, lets have some chat or beer, than we can talk about your sentiments.
...and if you like, you can stay here, para atleast you can enjoy the subsidy.
the end sir.
Nagtulisok na jud akong Huna-huna.

Sa ilaha, uyon jud sa LRT.
Sukad gihisgutan bahin ani sa pagina upat dinhi sa atong lantugi
Nikalit lang ug ulpot ning mga suya-on.
Samokan kaayo ang ilang kinabuot.
Nagkabaluktot og kinatay lang inenglisan
Hibau-an jud nako nga dili taga-atoa
Ingon ana jud, ig tawag nako sa 1-800 og 866.

TWK90

January 28th, 2010, 09:40 AM

I am curious what kind of LRT planned to be built in Cebu.....is it tram or the elevated LRT?

RonnieR

January 28th, 2010, 09:45 AM

I am curious what kind of LRT planned to be built in Cebu.....is it tram or the elevated LRT?

This is a DOTC-AMA LRT project for Cebu. DOTC is a government agency in charge for Transportation. It is elevated LRT but I'm confused with the announcement of our government officials. They said LRT - MRT for Cebu

Excerpts:
"The Department of Transportation and Communication (DOTC) and AMA Group Holdings Corp. will launch on Saturday an information drive on the benefits of the proposed P27-billion Light Rail Transit-Mono Rail Transit (LRT-MRT) project in Metro Cebu.".

"The first phase is the 21-kilometer LRT from Mandaue City to Talisay City passing through Cebu City. The second phase is a rail line from Talisay City to Dalaguete town to the south and the final phase, another rail line to the north from Mandaue City to the municipality of Sogod."

I don't know how you interpret that :)

RonnieR

January 28th, 2010, 09:49 AM

^^ related article:
LRT to link airport, sea ports, bus terminals in Cebu: DOTC
December 30, 2009
http://www.sunstar.com.ph/cebu/lrt-link-airport-sea-ports-bus-terminals-cebu-dotc

By Elias O. Baquero

THE proposed Light Rail Transit (LRT) being pushed by the Department of Transportation and Communication (DOTC) for Metro Cebu will definitely link Mactan Cebu International Airport with domestic seaports and bus terminals.

Engr. Manuel F. Galindez, chief of the engineering and planning unit of the Cebu Railways Project Office (CRPO), said that although DOTC is also conducting the planning for Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) the best mode of transport integration system would still be the LRT or the Mono Rail Transit (MRT).

For updates from around the country, follow Sun.Star on Twitter

Cebu City Mayor Tomas Osmeña is pushing for the BRT.

Galindes told Sun.Star Cebu that the Cebu MRT will be linked to Mactan Airport as agreed during the DOTC consultation meeting on July 31, 2007.

Osmeña was present during that consultation, he said.

Galindes admitted that they really need Mayor Osmeña’s support for the LRT-MRT project.

He is hoping that the mayor will change his mind, considering that majority of the Cebuanos are in favor of it.

He cited the statement of Dr. Robert Lim Joseph, chairman of the Tourism Educators and Movers (Team) Philippines during a weekly 888 News Forum at the Marco Polo Plaza, that both the MRT and BRT should consider servicing tourism points in the entire province.

Tourism

Reacting to Joseph’s statement, Guiling A. Mamondiong, DOTC undersecretary for railways, has said that these mass transport systems will be connected to seaports and major bus terminals of Metro Cebu to boost the tourism industry.

Last Sept. 17, DOTC forwarded to the National Economic and Development Authority (Neda) for its favorable action the project feasibility study of the Cebu MRT.

This is under the Build-operate-transfer (BOT) project, pursuant to Section 10.7 of the Implementing Rules and Regulations (IRR) of Republic Act 7718 otherwise known as An Act Authorizing the financing, construction, operation and maintenance of infrastructure projects by the private sector.

This law mandates the head of the agency (in this case DOTC), to inform the approving agency, (Neda), of its receipt of an unsolicited proposal.

Galindes said that the proponent of the project of AMA Group Holdings Corp. estimated the cost at US$602 million.

TWK90

January 28th, 2010, 09:59 AM

This is a DOTC-AMA LRT project for Cebu. DOTC is a government agency in charge for Transportation. It is elevated LRT but I'm confused with the announcement of our government officials. They said LRT - MRT for Cebu

Excerpts:
"The Department of Transportation and Communication (DOTC) and AMA Group Holdings Corp. will launch on Saturday an information drive on the benefits of the proposed P27-billion Light Rail Transit-Mono Rail Transit (LRT-MRT) project in Metro Cebu.".

"The first phase is the 21-kilometer LRT from Mandaue City to Talisay City passing through Cebu City. The second phase is a rail line from Talisay City to Dalaguete town to the south and the final phase, another rail line to the north from Mandaue City to the municipality of Sogod."

I don't know how you interpret that :)

LRT - Monorail? Erm....that sounds like a system of 3 lines, with a mix of LRT lines and monorail lines...

First phase = LRT
Second phase = ?
Third phase = ?

This is from my understanding from the report that you posted :)

okidok

January 28th, 2010, 11:24 AM

Hi all! I'm a newbie to this forum and the BRT thread caught my attention.

to superpilyoako: The last I heard about the Cebu BRT proposal is that it's the study that was approved and not the project yet.

to olineil: Good suggestion, keep the discussion as civil as possible. There are corridors wherein BRT is more appropriate and there are those wherein LRT is. In really congested corridors for example, an elevated or underground LRT (provided the soil can support the superstructure) may be more appropriate. In not so congested corridors and where road networks can still be expanded, BRT makes more sense because it's a lot cheaper. I guess it's not fair to simply generalize which is better. But as you suggested, let's drop the comparison and focus on questions.

To start with, what are the important considerations in building BRTs? First and foremost is demand, like in any other venture. You may say, shouldn't it be obvious? Yeah, but there had been cases wherein the availability of right of way took precedence over demand, such as in the Edomex in Buenavista, Mexico, where the availability of an existing old railroad right of way influenced the selection of the mass transit corridor.

So what else do you think should be considered in deciding whether to build BRT?

Eager to hear what you guys think. :lurker:

MatudNilaBaby

January 28th, 2010, 11:27 AM

LRT - Monorail? Erm....that sounds like a system of 3 lines, with a mix of LRT lines and monorail lines...

First phase = LRT
Second phase = ?
Third phase = ?

This is from my understanding from the report that you posted :)

you got it right!
phase one is within the cebu metropolitan area comprising of the cities of talisay, cebu, mandaue, and lapu-lapu,
phase two is from metro area of talisay down south to dalaguete town, and phase three starts from metro area in mandaue city up north to the town of sogod

olineil

January 28th, 2010, 01:41 PM

olineil

January 28th, 2010, 02:17 PM

Source: (http://itdp.pmhclients.com/index.php/microsite/brt_planning_guide_in_english)

5. Corridor Selection
BRT network should be prioritized through the following Considerations:

1. Maximize the number of beneficiaries of the new BRT system.
2. Minimize negative impact on general traffic.
3. Minimize operational costs.
4. Minimize implementation costs.
5. Minimize environmental impacts.
6. Maximize social benefits, especially to lower income groups.

Corridor Identification:
First step is the demand analysis as per okidok pointed out. It is found on chapter 4 of the guide. Then key areas needs to be identified.

1. High demand areas.
--a. Existing services
--b. Central Business District
--c. Educational Centers
--d. Large commerciall centers
--e. Business parks & Industrial areas
--f. Areas of rapid urbanization

2. Major Arterials
3. Secondary roads

Page 154 - 155
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v653/olineil/BRT/154.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v653/olineil/BRT/155.jpg

ivanc

January 28th, 2010, 04:03 PM

but the proposed LRT will pass by osmena blvd, fuente... but if ever LRT does get implemented, i hope na it would not pass these areas... parang masisira yung open-ness ng lugar, lalo na ng fuente.. (and i think it would bloat the cost kung i-underground ang osmena blvd section ng lrt)..

maybe they could just do with the straight line from mandaue to talisay

highway mandaue - mabolo/hippodromo - imus road - pdel rosario - n. bacalso - south highway... and have buses or "mini-brts" on the train stations to take you to other parts of the city. parang HK.

Sky Harbor

January 28th, 2010, 04:07 PM

TagaCebu

January 28th, 2010, 05:35 PM

^^ A light rail system does not need to be elevated. Personally, I'd love at-grade LRT running through Osmeña Boulevard. It just so happens that our political leaders, when making major infrastructure decisions, can't seem to think outside of the Manila paradigm. Light rail does not mean elevated! :down:

"One size fits all" will mess up Cebu unique topography
and history. Manila for example is a marshland.
As Sky Harbor points out:" our political leaders..can't seem to think outside of the Manila paradigm."

Modern LRT in Calgary,CA and Phoenix USA prove
against THE MYTH OF ECONOMIC ADVANTAGE OF BRT.
Cebu looks forward to a higher standards of living of the Western
cities of which maintenance and operations-cost are main factors.

This is an Accounting Report, neither a Project Study nor innuendos.
http://www.calgarytransit.com/pdf/Calgary_CTrain_Effective_Capital_Utilization.pdf page 7 (http://www.calgarytransit.com/pdf/Calgary_CTrain_Effective_Capital_Utilization.pdf)
ON CAPITAL COST OF LRT
Was LRT a wise investment? A 2001 report by the United States General
Accounting Office -“Mass Transit – Bus Rapid Transit Shows Promise” 2 -
suggests that for many cities, Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) may be a more
cost effective alternative than LRT for providing higher capacity
transit service. This report found that BRT system capital costs,
in the cities under review, ranged from a low of $200,000 to $55 million
per mile while capital costs for LRT systems varied between $12.4 and $118.8 million per mile.

Today, Calgary’s LRT consists of 42.1 kilometres (26.3 miles)
of double track, with approximately:
• 82 percent at-grade surface operation in a protected right of way,
• 8 percent in tunnel,
• 5 percent on bridges,
• 5 percent within the downtown transit mall.
---------------
These values are based on expensive labor with cadillac health and retirement
benefits and layers of mark-ups cost on materials and other related
to infrastructure.
The $600m cost estimate using Calagary's LRT percentage distribution
with local labor, environment, construction and other cost would drop
drastically much below the AMA Group proposal with no detail cost?
We can almost sing: "There something in the air!"
------------------
LRT using side streets like Sanciangkco and C. Padilla
will make it accessible sa real people,"Massa" or whom our politicians and elites
call "little people"

http://railforthevalley.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/calgary05.jpg
This will cause an economic boom in these areas.

---
If our small town of Balamban can build these ships
, Aboitiz should partner with Siemens and build LRT
sell it to Manila and to the World. Local maintenance and
material support of the LRT can also happen.

http://www.thici.com/imgs/downloads/sc109.jpg

BUT,We have to get LRT at any cost regardless for this reason below:
This is how politics up North operate.

http://karl-garcia.blogspot.com/2009/11/shipbuilding-why-we-import-vessels.html<- for full report link.
While FBMA has been building the training vessels for Great Britain’s
armed forces in the past months, it has also tried to enter into a
contract with the Philippine Coast Guard and the Philippine Navy.

Ironically, though, the Philippine Government prefers to have the
Armed Forces of the Philippines’ training vessels built in Australia,
often at a higher cost, Stillwell said.

okidok

January 28th, 2010, 06:10 PM

wow! very informative. thanks.

(currently figurin' out how to attach photos in SSC)

:lurker:

kevinb

January 28th, 2010, 07:34 PM

olineil

January 28th, 2010, 09:08 PM

Wow. Those photos are very beautiful @Neil. Once Cebu gets this project finished, Cebu will be more beautiful.:okay:

I hope whoever handled the Cebu BRT feasibility study would start their study in Naga as well. Ü

Most probably Kev! Those guys would definitely be the people from ITDP and most probably the involvement of Collin Brader and a local planner such as Paul Villarete (Zidlakan) Cebu City, Planning Division. Enrique Peñalosa (Former Mayor of Bogota and Initiator of Transmilenio) is the President of the organization.

olineil

January 28th, 2010, 09:11 PM

wow! very informative. thanks.

(currently figurin' out how to attach photos in SSC)

:lurker:

Your gonna need an image hosting account like "Photobucket.com" and use the "url of photo" tag without the quotes to paste here.

ivanc

January 29th, 2010, 03:13 AM

This report found that BRT system capital costs,
in the cities under review, ranged from a low of $200,000 to $55 million
per mile while capital costs for LRT systems varied between $12.4 and $118.8 million per mile.

so BRT is more affordable pa rin

ivanc

January 29th, 2010, 03:24 AM

http://railforthevalley.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/calgary05.jpg
This will cause an economic boom in these areas.

this photo.... remove the railways on the streets and the power cables dangling from the top and change the train to a bus and you get a BRT

http://imaginativeamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/imagi_brt.jpg

greenshields

January 29th, 2010, 03:37 AM

Wow. Those photos are very beautiful @Neil. Once Cebu gets this project finished, Cebu will be more beautiful.:okay:

I hope whoever handled the Cebu BRT feasibility study would start their study in Naga as well. Ü

Naga City should make representations to DOTC, ADB and WB. The latter development agencies would have facilities to conduct FS. ADB now is considering a study for Davao City along the lines of the Cebu City initiative and DOTC has allocated funds. However, I think the election ban's put a hold on the DOTC side of the bargain. I'm not sure if the ADB can proceed and how advanced are the talks with Davao City.

CGYanon

January 29th, 2010, 04:41 AM

^^ A light rail system does not need to be elevated... :down:

like the Metro all over Phoenix AZ. kaso di pwede sa Pinas, dami tigas ulo. :lol:
http://www.treehugger.com/plr-train-arriving.jpg
http://www.streetfilms.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/phoenix-rail-poster.jpg

CGYanon

January 29th, 2010, 04:49 AM

or the Railrunner. i took this train from Albuquerque to Santa Fe, New Mexico.
http://judysjottings.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/dscn0651.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5f/Rail_runner_nmrx-104.jpg/800px-Rail_runner_nmrx-104.jpg

RonnieR

January 29th, 2010, 05:12 AM

TagaCebu

January 29th, 2010, 05:42 AM

A new forum is needed:
Proposed Cebu BRT Development Project

=============================================
This forum's topic is:
Proposed Cebu LRT Development Project
There is no mention of BRT, Tartanilla ,or HOV, Express etc..
The prevalent opposition of the financial issue is a disconnect
to the topic: Proposed Cebu LRT Development Project .

-------------
LRT is a preferred mode of Mass Transportation of everybody.
We hope to express our views to appointed and elected responsible officials
especially to DOTC in the execution of their mandate.
We thru the power of the Web participate for
the government is for the people and by the people.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Excerpts of DOTC and related orders:
http://www.dotc.gov.ph/mandate.htm
EXECUTIVE ORDER NO. 125
DOTC mandate
SECTION 4. Mandate. The Ministry shall be the primary policy, planning, programming, coordinating, implementing, regulating, and administrative entity of the Executive Branch of the government in the promotion, development and regulation of dependable and coordinated networks of transportation and communication system, as well as in the fast, sale, efficient and reliable postal, transportation and communication services.

To accomplish such mandate, the Ministry shall have the following objectives:
-Promote the development of dependable and coordinated networks of transportation and communication systems;
-Guide government and private investment in the development of the country's inter- model transportation and communication systems in a most practical, expeditious, and orderly fashion for maximum safety, service, and cost effectiveness;
-Impose appropriate measure so that technical, economic and other condition for the continuing economic viability of the transportation and communication entities are not jeopardized and do not encourage inefficiency and distortion of traffic patronage;
-Develop an integrated plan for a nationwide transmission system in accordance with the national and international telecommunication service requirement including, among others,radio and television broadcast relaying, leased channel services and data transmission;
-Guide government and private investment in the establishment, operation and maintenance of an international switching system for incoming and outgoing telecommunication services;
-Encourage the development of a domestic telecommunication industry in coordination with the concern entities particularly, the manufacture of communications/ electronics equipment and components to complement and support as much as possible, the expansion, development, operation and maintenance of the nationwide telecommunications network;
-Provide for a safe, reliable and efficient postal system for the country.

http://www.lrta.gov.ph/eo603.htm
Executive Order No. 603
Sec. 2. Creation of Authority - To carry out the foregoing transportation
policy, there is hereby created a corporate body to be known as the LIGHT RAIL
TRANSIT AUTHORITY, hereinafter called the "AUTHORITY", which shall be primarily
responsible for the construction, operation, maintenance, and/or lease of light rail
transit systems in the Philippines, giving due regard to reasonable requirements
of the public transportation system of the country. The principal office of the
Authority shall be in the Metropolitan Manila Area, but it may be establish branches
and agencies elsewhere within the Philippines, as may be necessary for the proper
conduct of the business and the discharge of its functions. The Authority shall be
attached to the Ministry of Transportation and Communications.
-------------------------------------
[EXECUTIVE ORDER NO. 210]
July 07, 1987
AMENDING EXECUTIVE ORDER NO. 603, ENTITLED "CREATING A LIGHT RAIL TRANSIT AUTHORITY, VESTING THE SAME WITH AUTHORITY TO CONSTRUCT AND OPERATE THE LIGHT RAIL TRANSIT (LRT) PROJECT AND PROVIDING FUNDS THEREFOR"

TagaCebu

January 29th, 2010, 05:47 AM

or the Railrunner. i took this train from Albuquerque to Santa Fe, New Mexico.
Will you please compare the train ride, if you would have taken Greyhound?

MatudNilaBaby

January 29th, 2010, 05:54 AM

Will you please compare the train ride, if you would have taken Greyhound?

i have taken an amtrak train from la to denver and took the greyhound bus ride back to california. i bet thats hard to compare.

okidok

January 29th, 2010, 09:12 AM

Your gonna need an image hosting account like "Photobucket.com" and use the "url of photo" tag without the quotes to paste here.

Thanks! I was able to do it na in the "Funny Signs in the Philippines" thread. By the way olineil, who are the local consultants working on the Cebu BRT F/S, aside from the people you mentioned? I just know from a friend that it's World Bank -funded.

okidok

January 29th, 2010, 09:23 AM

Hi guys! I was asked to post this invite in the infra sub-forum, but I haven't participated in any thread except this one on the BRT. This is from leechtat in the SSC Metro Manila Meets thread:

I would like to sponsor an event for Skyscrapercity Manila. We shall hold this event at The Grove by Rockwell Events Pavilion. Events organizers, please PM me. Let's do this.

the thread:

thread (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=635889&page=378)

:cheers1:

RonnieR

January 29th, 2010, 10:42 AM

Hi guys! I was asked to post this invite in the infra sub-forum, but I haven't participated in any thread except this one on the BRT. This is from leechtat in the SSC Metro Manila Meets thread:

the thread:

thread (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=635889&page=378)

:cheers1:

hi okidok...welcome to SSC.

redjieredz

January 29th, 2010, 11:51 AM

Cebu City BRT Studies, Phase 1 has already done... :banana::banana::banana::cheers:

CGYanon

January 29th, 2010, 02:56 PM

Will you please compare the train ride, if you would have taken Greyhound?
once lang ko nakasakay ng greyhound from Baltimore to New Jersey (na-cancel yung flight ko kasi). the waiting was a pain, 'twas horrible. and there's so many stops. i hated it.

i have taken an amtrak train from la to denver and took the greyhound bus ride back to california. i bet thats hard to compare.
i took amtrak in Baltimore, i thought it was fun. the train was kinda old, but not bad eh! greyhound sucks, yea i know!

olineil

January 29th, 2010, 09:40 PM

Cebu City BRT Studies, Phase 1 has already done... :banana::banana::banana::cheers:

That's great! Hope to see posts and data about the first phase study. Would love to hear it from Sir Zid cause he is the indisputable official source regarding this project. :banana::banana:

Sir Zid? Paramdam ka naman po.

Daizuke

January 30th, 2010, 02:01 AM

Foreign experts to ensure BRT is affordable, safe

Sun.Star Cebu. (http://www.sunstar.com.ph/cebu/foreign-experts-ensure-brt-affordable-safe)
January 30, 2010.

AFFORDABILITY, the passengers’ safety and comfort will be priority concerns when proponents finalize the plans for Cebu City’s Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) system, foreign consultants said yesterday.

Foreign consultants from the Integrated Transport Planning (ITP) said they are now halfway through developing the BRT model for Cebu City, which is seen to be operational by the end of 2012.

ITP Director Colin Brader assured the public yesterday that fares for the BRT will be similar to jeepney fares to make it affordable to commuters, amid concerns that it will be an expensive public transport system.

In a recent survey among public transportation users, the ITP learned that the leading concerns of the public with any form of public transportation are their safety, security and comfort, and the affordability of the system.

“They’re very worried that BRT will be more expensive so we want to say that we’re aiming for the BRT to be comparatively cheap, with the same cost as the jeepney fares. We want to provide a high level of service at a similar cost. We want to assure people of that,” Brader said.

At City Hall yesterday, Brader met with city officials, representatives of government agencies and other stakeholders from the transportation sector to discuss updates on the pre-feasibility study for the BRT.

ITP is a specialist transport planning consultancy that focuses on the delivery of integrated sustainable transport. It was appointed by the World Bank to identify and prepare a public transport concept plan for the city.

The group just finished the first phase of the study, which includes assessment of the local situation and gathering data on the number of public transport users and what potential users expect from the bus system.

“It’s understanding what the people want from the BRT... We’ve started looking at what is achievable. If you consider the BRT development from one to 10, we’re on stage five at the moment so we’re halfway there,” Brader said.

ITP has already identified the 15-kilometer BRT route but has yet to determine the project cost, which was earlier pegged at P1 billion to P6 billion.

The initial 15-kilometer Talamban-Bulacao line will pass through Osmeña Blvd. It will eventually connect to the South Road Properties (SRP) and major shopping malls in the city.

The consultants hope to complete the pre-feasibility study by the end of June, and the feasibility study by the end of the year.

In the survey among potential users of the BRT, Brader said they found out the concerns of the commuters, which he said would be addressed by the BRT.

“What they’re very concerned about with the operations of the jeepney is their security, where they are vulnerable to theft and other security issues. And that’s the number one thing we have to address. Second is their comfort... We also have to consider the cost and price. In the jeepney, the biggest advantage is that it’s very cheap so people can use them quite easily,” he said.

Brader told reporters after their meeting that potential users are worried that the BRT would not be as affordable as jeepneys.

Even with the large investment needed for the system, Brader said it is possible to keep the fares low, since the infrastructure needed for the BRT will be shouldered by the government.

The day-to-day operations of the BRT will be supported by the income generated from the fares.

“We’re pretty clear the system will support itself with the fares that are similar to the jeepney level,” Brader added.

The BRT that Mayor Tomas Osmeña is pushing works like the train system, but uses buses instead of train coaches and bus lanes instead of train tracks.

The buses are stairless. Passengers pay at the specially designed bus stations in the middle of the road, accessible through pedestrian lanes or overhead walkways.

bakasaurus

January 30th, 2010, 02:22 AM

Nice to hear about some progress here.

olineil

January 30th, 2010, 02:34 AM

okidok

January 30th, 2010, 03:13 AM

bakasaurus

January 30th, 2010, 03:34 AM

Sleepwalker

January 30th, 2010, 03:37 AM

Just an idea: to save on capital investment cost, perhaps the local government of Cebu would like to explore how their BRT can qualify for "incentives for green transit options" from global organizations which give those. I've seen Beijing's BRT and heard they were partly funded by green incentives.
:cheers1:

I hope Sir Zid can see this one...Nice idea... :cheers:

MatudNilaBaby

January 30th, 2010, 03:47 AM

Just an idea: to save on capital investment cost, perhaps the local government of Cebu would like to explore how their BRT can qualify for "incentives for green transit options" from global organizations which give those. I've seen Beijing's BRT and heard they were partly funded by green incentives.
:cheers1:

world bank who is funding the studies and hopefully on the whole brt project is keen on global warming and climate change issues. im sure they would be endorsing the use of green technology on this project.

jpdm

January 30th, 2010, 04:23 AM

What happened to the plan to put up a BRT in Taguig?

okidok

January 30th, 2010, 04:50 AM

Hi folks! :)
I started a new thread on the Renewable Energy Act and its implications. If any of you guys are interested to post, go to this thread (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1056587)
Cheers!
:cheers1:

okidok

January 30th, 2010, 05:08 AM

Hi again folks! :)
From the moderator:
^^ Your thread merged with another similar thread (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=869502) already in existence.
Cheers!
:cheers1:

greenshields

January 30th, 2010, 08:03 AM

What happened to the plan to put up a BRT in Taguig?

Hayun...dream pa rin ng Ayala, hehe. Joking aside, I hear they're talking with possible partners including Meralco to put up that BRT. One idea is to have it like the electric buses in San Francisco. Not much progress though and Ayala have since augmented their Fort Bus fleet with HM Transport buses (one of the companies who have a few CNG buses in operation). Designated stops sila sa loob ng Fort so I guess its precursor, if ever, to a good bus system there.

mAiNsTrEaMhunter

January 30th, 2010, 09:06 AM

YEHEY! GO BRT!!!! :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:

RonnieR

January 31st, 2010, 05:56 AM

Hayun...dream pa rin ng Ayala, hehe. Joking aside, I hear they're talking with possible partners including Meralco to put up that BRT. One idea is to have it like the electric buses in San Francisco. Not much progress though and Ayala have since augmented their Fort Bus fleet with HM Transport buses (one of the companies who have a few CNG buses in operation). Designated stops sila sa loob ng Fort so I guess its precursor, if ever, to a good bus system there.

HM buses look old....unlike the original Fort buses which look modern.

I think Cebu will have their BRT ahead than Manila's.

TagaCebu

January 31st, 2010, 06:26 AM

FOR THE HONOLULU HIGH-CAPACITY TRANSIT CORRIDOR PROJECT (http://www.hawaiiapa.org/pdf/2009_news_AIATransitReptFeb09.pdf)<--Click for full report.
Comparing the latest City estimate for elevated rail ($5.3 billion)
with the uppermost estimated cost for at-grade rail ($2.5 billion),
a 20-mile LRT system would allow the City to build a transit system
for one-half the cost, thereby reducing taxpayer funding. Comparing
construction time of the Phoenix at-grade system (4 years) with the City’s
estimated elevated construction time for Honolulu (9 years), at-grade LRT would allow
the City to build a transit system in less that one-half the time.
2dw588OJLUU
Difference per mile of an above-ground to an at-grade (street-level) rail

Blackraven

January 31st, 2010, 08:33 AM

For Cebu:
Bus Rapid Transit should go first.

Opinyon ko lang naman ito :)

Blackraven

January 31st, 2010, 08:36 AM

IMHO, I wanna see for myself and witness the first Bus Rapid Transit system in the country.

And as such, the Cebu LRT project SHOULD take a back seat (though we'll look upon it once the need arises).

Two centavos :)

TagaCebu

January 31st, 2010, 09:38 AM

At-grade Manila needs BRT now.
At-grade Manila Style Today not for Cebu.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_yXvPSpjIArA/SLf1cE51Q4I/AAAAAAAABHs/mTNyUAm1nSA/s400/IMG_2738.jpg

An unidentical twin rides an improvised railroad cart called
trolley on Nov. 18 in Taguig City. Pushing this trolley, their mother gets
P10 for every passenger.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3234/3045641710_3bc1c60e9d.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6e/Philippine_National_Railways_Manila_squatter.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p271/digitaljay/random_MG_1973depression-1.jpg

RonnieR

January 31st, 2010, 12:13 PM

^^ That's the thing of the past. There are no more squatters along rail tracks in that area. It's now cleared.

The new commuter trains are running.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y24/nakayome/PNR_Updates/P5060111-1.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_hac0Jx4d5lY/SjZBC7ME7II/AAAAAAAABZY/HoavMIZczqM/s400/dmutestrunjun15+copy.jpg

May I ask you, what is the purpose of posting those old trains with squatters in this thread???

Be updated with Manila news. Go to Rail thread.

okidok

January 31st, 2010, 02:59 PM

HM

I think Cebu will have their BRT ahead than Manila's.

Very likely. Looks like Cebu officials really exercise political will on this one.
:cheers1:

TagaCebu

January 31st, 2010, 09:22 PM

^^ That's the thing of the past. There are no more squatters along rail tracks in that area. It's now cleared. The new commuter trains are running. May I ask you, what is the purpose of posting those old trains with squatters in this thread???
Be updated with Manila news. Go to Rail thread.

Thanks for supporting ideas of the beauty and comfort of today's Manila LRT/MRT.
It shows exactly why we want it in Cebu.
-------------------
Blackraven Location: Makati (in the Philippines)
For Cebu: Bus Rapid Transit should go first. Opinyon ko lang naman ito :)
Postings like Blackraven's is distracting to the issue and unfair to Cebu.

This thread is Cebu LRT Development Project Thread.

TO the purpose of posting those old trains with squatters in this thread
because... if BRT runs along that routes squatters would not have been
possible. It also shows the level of safety of Trains to co-exist with people.

CEBU WANTS Manila's LRT
Z4duXhWILF0

hydraulics

February 1st, 2010, 03:20 AM

WHAT CAN YOU GET FROM A BUS????

March 28, 2009, 11:13pm - Naga, Cebu – A COLLISION between a 10-wheeler truck and a mini-bus killed 14 persons and injured four others in the highway of Barangay Tuyan, City of Naga yesterday dawn. Two of the victims remain unidentified as of press time.
Among those killed were a 10-year-old girl and her mother, the two drivers and a cook for Sulpicio Lines Inc.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_eOQA8UzOj50/Sc78NYxf61I/AAAAAAAABGE/PEgU5IOo22k/s400/Nagacity_accident_tulay_cebu.jpg

Duha ka mga tawo ang patay, apil ang 8 anyos na batang lalaki while mga 40 kapin ang nangaangol sa pagkahulog sa usa ka mini-bus sa Barangay Busay. nia ang giingon sa driver kai nawad-an siya ug brake.
two people killed and at least 49 other people, including the driver and his helper, were injured.
8 year old boy, and a woman 44, both residents of Babag 2, a mountain barangay of Cebu City, were declared dead on arrival, said SPO4 Ronilo Ermac.http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee357/graphicare/ac.jpg

Accident in Sibonga
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3455/3392191830_0c33b7f2fc.jpg

May 02, 2009 12:00 AM CEBU, Philippines - One died and four were injured in an eight-vehicle road mishap at the national highway in barangay Tungkop, Minglanilla town the other night. According the traffic investigator SPO2 Renato Masangkay, the accident was caused by a Carcar-bound minibus, which rear ended a cargo truck loaded with soft drinks. Before it stopped, the mini-bus hit six other vehicles, including a balut driver’s motorcycle, and ran through the fence of a private residence. It was the second crash involving a mini-bus and a truck in the south since March 28, and revived concerns about the failure to enforce rules against speeding. At least 14 persons died when a mini-bus and a truck collided in the earlier accident in the City of Naga.

ONE man was killed while three were seriously injured in two road accidents involving motorcycles. A mini-bus crushed the head of motorcycle driver in Compostela town Sunday afternoon. the driver of the motorcylce was headed north onboard his Ramstar motorcycle when an Isuzu Elf passenger mini-bus tried to overtake him. But the mini-bus hit him instead. He fell off the motorcycle while the minibus was still running. His head hit the pavement and then the minibus ran over him, killing him instantly.

And counting. this happens almost everyday or week i dont think that the BRT is a good idea. its like when you ride your life's at 50/50. the most important thing is life, you cannot buy life. so how many life would you spare for this brt. well for me i'd rather spend all my money than be dead

Help victims of Cebu road accident, Palace orders DSWD MANILA, Philippines - Malacañang has ordered the Department of Social Welfare and Development (DSWD) to provide assistance to victims in a grisly predawn road accident in Cebu province.

hydraulics

February 1st, 2010, 03:24 AM

i hope and wish that all drivers will be as good as olineil so that no accidents would happen

twIco

February 1st, 2010, 09:37 AM

i think there would be less accidents in BRT coz all of it has some corresponding routes, am i right??

mAiNsTrEaMhunter

February 1st, 2010, 09:48 AM

^^
not necessarily their route but being inside a dedicated lane minimizes accidents. also, the mere fact that BRT has a central command center can monitor moving BRTs and BRT drivers to be on constant alert whenever the command center transmit data to them. ;)

RonnieR

February 1st, 2010, 10:28 AM

Thanks for supporting ideas of the beauty and comfort of today's Manila LRT/MRT.
It shows exactly why we want it in Cebu.
----

I support both LRT and BRT for Cebu and even in Metro Manila. :cheers:

TagaCebu

February 1st, 2010, 11:23 AM

i think there would be less accidents in BRT coz all of it has some corresponding routes, am i right??

The track fixes the exact direction where the train is going.
There is no such thing as overtaking in rails....

All cars and buses today have steering wheels.

Sleepwalker

February 1st, 2010, 11:34 AM

^^For rail system, there is also what we called as "derailed".

Englehart

February 1st, 2010, 01:57 PM

olineil

February 1st, 2010, 04:12 PM

ivanc

February 1st, 2010, 04:18 PM

The track fixes the exact direction where the train is going.
There is no such thing as overtaking in rails....

All cars and buses today have steering wheels.

there are train accidents too, FYI.

http://www.newsinferno.com/wp-includes/images/Train-Derail-3.jpg
http://www.funnyphotos.net.au/images/train-accident-into-a-car.jpg
http://www.animedimension.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/disney-monorail-accidents.jpg

and by the way, those bus accidents are for unorganized bus routes... not BRT (I'm not saying BRT has no accidents.. but the pictures shown are not BRT)

mAiNsTrEaMhunter

February 1st, 2010, 04:21 PM

di rin eh....... panu yung mga driver na pasaway.... na mahilig mag overtake.....
theres nothing wrong naman with BRT eh ang problem lang is nag proposed sila when everything is ready na... in short wrong timing sila pede nila kada station may bus stop para sa mga destination na hindi madadaanan ng LRT or MRT o kung anu man.....

eh how come they'll be able to overtake when one lane is ONLY available for them. i presume the city will also install barriers to isolate BRT from the private transport.

what do you mean they were proposing when everything was ready na?
anong wrong timing?

are you from cebu? kung tutuusin nga, mas wrong timing ang LRT/MRT kasi kung kailan malapit na ang eleksyon, ganun na lang ka-agresibo ang mga proponents nito. kay tagal-tagal na yang issue na yan and every election period nalang ibinibida talaga ng congressman na yan ang LRT/MRT. pero hanggang ngayon ba, san na yung sinasabi nyang LRT/MRT sa cebu? WALA! sabihin na lang natin, 10-16 years na ata yun! wala pa ring dumadaang LRT/MRT sa cebu!

eh ang BRT, ngayon lang pinagusapan at natural, eepal naman itong congressmang ito para ibida ulit yung proyekto nya dahil tuwing eleksyon lang nya ito ibinibida sa mga cebuano!:bash:

IMO, sa tingin ko mas merong pang pag-asang marealize ang BRT kaysa sa LRT for now. ;)

olineil

February 1st, 2010, 04:23 PM

i think there would be less accidents in BRT coz all of it has some corresponding routes, am i right??

di rin eh....... panu yung mga driver na pasaway.... na mahilig mag overtake.....

theres nothing wrong naman with BRT eh ang problem lang is nag proposed sila when everything is ready na... in short wrong timing sila pede nila kada station may bus stop para sa mga destination na hindi madadaanan ng LRT or MRT o kung anu man.....

Yes BRT routes are fixed and there will be dedicated lanes with barriers that discourage encroachment of mixed traffic into the Bus lane but permeable to buses if the bus needs to use a mixed traffic lane to overtake say a disabled bus. BRT runs at a maximum speed of around 40kph similar to LRT speeds thus minimizing the possibility of accidents due to over speeding. The potential of accidents happening will rely mostly on mixed traffic vehicles obeying the laws and the BRT dedicated lanes much like on an at grade LRT.

regarding the "Pasaway" drivers... a BRT system will minimize it or would drop it close to zero since the BRT Bus Captains will be paid in Fixed salaries rather than the boundary system which promotes the predatory driving due to the competition for passengers. BRT operators are also paid by the kilometer traveled of each rather than the number of passengers boarding it.

Sleepwalker

February 2nd, 2010, 02:37 AM

mAiNsTrEaMhunter

February 2nd, 2010, 05:21 AM

^^
maybe Gullas needs to stop this sabotage and empty promises among Cebuanos! how many years already did he tried to share with us his vision of an LRT/MRT running in Cebu and yet, until this very day, its still is stocked on his drawing board.

probably! i guess Osmeña must have been too uneasy, he can't anymore stand another 10-16 years for Gullas' LRT/MRT to prosper and be a realization that's why he decided to visit Bogota and see for himself its own BRT running. the only problem here is that Osmeña is the mayor of the only INDEPENDENT LGU among Metro Cebu mayors who is at the same time, severely strained ties with the governor of the Province of Cebu who then unfortunately is a close ally of the one's proposing this LRT/MRT project!

RonnieR

February 2nd, 2010, 05:36 AM

mAiNsTrEaMhunter

February 2nd, 2010, 05:41 AM

^^
no. mayor tom is running but not for the mayoralty post sir @ron. he is eying the congressional seat of the cebu city south district.

well, that's the interesting part of it come election day. :)

TagaCebu

February 2nd, 2010, 09:56 PM

^^Guys, do you think that this sudden re-appearance of LRT proposal is some sort of economic sabotage?...Hehehehe
It might be that the purpose of it is to hinder the development of BRT?
I just don't like how they brought up this LRT thing. Now you see, now you don't.
The fixed rail is attractive to infrastructure global investors.
(Metro Manila) MRT consortium was able to raising $378 M from asset-backed bonds to finance the construction.
http://www.pia.gov.ph/?m=12&fi=p090727.htm&date=07/27/2009
This standing was affirmed b International Ratings Agencies like Moody's.
...To Decongest Metro Manila, the Philippine National Railway system
from Tutuban to Buendia is now operational.
Various infrastructure projects were ongoing construction address the traffic
situation of Metro Manila that include the construction of the Metro Manila Skyway Stage 2, MRT/LRT loop, C5-NLEX-SLEX link, and the Northrail-Southrail link Phase 1.

-------------------------
BRT WILL COMPETE WITH JEEPNEYS: (http://www.busrapidtransitsystem.co.za/archives/147)<-- FULL REPORT
The occupants of a minibus taxi opened fire on a BRT bus in Soweto on
Tuesday evening wounding a policeman and passenger, Johannesburg police reported.
“The taxi that was following the bus starting shooting at it… the two people
were shot in their legs but are alright,” inspector Kay Makhubela said.
He confirmed that the shots were fired from a Toyota Quantum minibus, at
around 19:00, which apparently followed the bus as it was driving past the Nancefield Hostel.

An unidentified passenger and a policeman was both hit in the leg and also
wounded. Both were taken to hospital.No arrests had been made and it was
not clear how many people were on the bus at the time.

The Bus Rapid Transit system was unveiled with great excitement on Sunday.
Fearing it would destroy their livelihoods, taxi operators have expressed
opposition to the project.

ivanc

February 4th, 2010, 03:05 PM

-------------------------
BRT WILL COMPETE WITH JEEPNEYS: (http://www.busrapidtransitsystem.co.za/archives/147)

and LRT wont? remember, maraming sasagasaan na jeepney and multicab routes ang proposed LRT sa Cebu.

the implementation of LRT or BRT in Cebu will compete with the existing mode of transportation (jeepneys, multicab, minibus, KMK) since it will cater to more or less the same riding population/demographics...

olineil

February 4th, 2010, 05:41 PM

and LRT wont? remember, maraming sasagasaan na jeepney and multicab routes ang proposed LRT sa Cebu.

the implementation of LRT or BRT in Cebu will compete with the existing mode of transportation (jeepneys, multicab, minibus, KMK) since it will cater to more or less the same riding population/demographics...

BRT is not supposed to compete with the existing PUJ, multicab, minibus, kmk. In as much as possible... the proper way to implement BRT is to absorb most if not all "Jeepney Operators & Drivers" to become a part of the new corporation that will manage the new system (e.g. Transmilenio SA (http://www.transmilenio.gov.co/WebSite/Default.aspx)). If we let the old system to compete... we will have the "New Delhi BRT" dilemma which Sir Paul Villarete is well aware of and I have reason to believe that they are gonna make it right from the beginning as much as possible.

Again, "Where a BRT corridor is introduced, all antiquated systems in that corridor will have to be phased out or partially relegated to Feeder status so as not to compete with the new system thereby ensuring maximum profitability for the BRT system, share holders, & the government".

olineil

February 4th, 2010, 05:41 PM

olineil

February 4th, 2010, 06:12 PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v653/olineil/BRT/Myth.jpg

olineil

February 4th, 2010, 08:02 PM

Source: (http://itdp.pmhclients.com/index.php/microsite/brt_planning_guide_in_english)

Page 120 (BRT Planning Guide)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v653/olineil/BRT/Mistakes1.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v653/olineil/BRT/Mistakes2.jpg

greenshields

February 4th, 2010, 11:55 PM

Excellent info on BRT...of course there are many good sources for these in the net including the ITDP site. I maintain that there is really a need to finally have one operational BRT in this country to show how effective it can be. A lot of "critics" seem to associate BRT with "Bus" rather than with "Rapid Transit."

greenshields

February 5th, 2010, 12:04 AM

and LRT wont? remember, maraming sasagasaan na jeepney and multicab routes ang proposed LRT sa Cebu.

the implementation of LRT or BRT in Cebu will compete with the existing mode of transportation (jeepneys, multicab, minibus, KMK) since it will cater to more or less the same riding population/demographics...

Whichever will be built first, LRT or BRT proponents should do a lot of social marketing. I think that was what the Cebu City government has been doing since last year. Only, the focus was and still is on the proposed BRT because of the current pre-FS being undertaken with WB support. In the case of LRT, I guess the proponents should get their own thing going by putting people on the ground rather than concentrate on giving interviews and posting items in newspapers. Pogi points for the articles/interviews maybe for Gullas and Mamondiong but that's just on paper. What we want to see in Cebu City is for them to do some work rather than dwell on documents made years ago that was never updated nor validated.

hydraulics

February 5th, 2010, 04:13 AM

there are train accidents too, FYI.

http://www.newsinferno.com/wp-includes/images/Train-Derail-3.jpg
http://www.funnyphotos.net.au/images/train-accident-into-a-car.jpg
http://www.animedimension.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/disney-monorail-accidents.jpg

and by the way, those bus accidents are for unorganized bus routes... not BRT (I'm not saying BRT has no accidents.. but the pictures shown are not BRT)

can you post something that's within philippines only for example @metro manila.

TagaCebu

February 5th, 2010, 04:41 PM

... ..the case of LRT, I guess the proponents should get their own thing going
...rather than dwell on documents made years ago .. was never updated
nor validated?.

DOTC's mandate, and the cities of Manadawe and Talisay want LRT.
Cebu City Government is blocking LRT for financial reason!
If Manila has it, who is stopping LRT to be in Cebu?

Yet, Cebu City built SRP and NRP which both are contributing
to Cebu City financial problems.
Today, 300 million is needed just to pay the interest.
Mandawe took a good portion of NRP
Talisay is trying to get their share of SRP
SRP for example is built for the rich! Jeepney drivers are not even allowed.
The City has also failed to run Bus business like Kaoshiung Buses.

Despite financial stress, NRP and SRP contributed to Cebu City progress.
The point is: LRT definitely and surely will contribute to the image of
a modern Cebu City, to the pride and benefit of all Cebuanos
gMJV5CH5F7I

fengrun

February 5th, 2010, 04:50 PM

anything that is most cost efficient, with quick delivery is what should be implemented. If BRT is easier and cheaper to implement then go for it. Cebu City will be the pilot testing for BRT in the country. Personally I would go for BRT instead of LRT.

Its the first in the Philippines. This will put cebu in the Philippine history.

hydraulics

February 5th, 2010, 05:01 PM

i dont expect much. i wish you had a mayor like duterte or bayani fernando when it comes to traffic. IN CEBU 1.narrow highways+BRT 2.AIR POLLUTION+BRT 3.crowded+BRT 4.unorganized 5.jeepneys+BRT 6.garbage everywhere 7.high man power cost cause people are all gone driving jeepneys/BRT in the future 8.no proper road signs 9.electricity shortage 10.water shortage 11.lots of drunkards on the streets everywhere even in executive villages, very very very unsafe place to live. 12.crime rates for ex. frat/gang wars, mini bus accident+BRT 12.un-organized buses like KMK and so on.

FACTS:
Diesel exhaust contains dozens of toxic chemicals and chemical compounds that, according to the California Air Resources Board, may cause or contribute to an increase in mortality or serious illness. These include several highly persistent, bioaccumulative, and toxic (PBT) chemicals: polychlorinated dioxins, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs), naphthalene, mercury, cadmium, and lead. Other toxic constituents of diesel fuel include a number of known human cancer-causing agents such as formaldehyde, acetaldehyde, benzene, and 1,3-butadiene
Diesel-powered engines emit particulate matter that can aggravate asthma and other respiratory problems. Children may be especially susceptible to these health risks, and fine particulates can penetrate children's narrow airways and lodge deep within the lungs.
DONT LET THIS HAPPEN TO YOU!!!!:
http://www.taconichills.k12.ny.us/webquests/noncomdisease/lungcancerpic.jpg
http://whyquit.com/whyquit/KimScar.JPG
sir please A LITTLE PENNY WONT HURT
YOU'LL NEVER KNEW WHATS INSIDE YOUR LUNGS UNLESS YOUR SICK AND REQUIRES A SURGERY

hydraulics

February 5th, 2010, 05:10 PM

@ivanc not all drivers in cebu are like Michael Schumacher. there are many2x reckless
drivers here unlike bogota they are really strict when issuing drivers licenses.
there are many tests conducted. when i got my liscence in Dubai i failed THREE times but here i got a perfect score on the exam no sweat

TagaCebu

February 6th, 2010, 02:48 AM

Cebu City not province is No. 1 (http://globalnation.inquirer.net/cebudailynews/news/view/20100205-251402/Cebu-City-not-province-is-No-1)<-click for full report

Cebu City Mayor Tomas Osmeña yesterday
corrected President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo'sstatement
that Cebu was emerging number one destination for business.

He said it should be “Cebu City.Way labot ang probinsya! (The province is not included) ” he said.

But Rory Jon Sepulveda, Capitol consultant on information and revenue generation, thought otherwise.

He reminded the mayor that the Cebu Property Ventures Development Corp. (which manages the Asiatown IT Park) is a creation of the Cebu province and Ayala Land Inc.

“Instead of claiming the credit for the success of the BPO-IT here, he should think about it (CPVDC).
And it’s never too late for him to say, thank you to Cebu province because
without the province there’s no IT Park,” Sepulveda said.
--------------------------
Somebody is making this a political issue on an election year.
This reflects the attitude toward a DOTC's project on LRT
which will benefit the Cebuanos in modern City of Cebu.
The statement discourages cooperation as united and one Cebu
The president's week-long tour was to visit people who
represent the whole Cebu and have benefited from National government.
--------------------------
President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo visited ...call centers..
as part of her week-long tour to highlight this administration's cyber corridor projects. nationwide. (http://www.gov.ph/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2002875&Itemid=2)<- full report

hydraulics

February 6th, 2010, 03:58 AM

Sleepwalker

February 6th, 2010, 04:06 AM

So, your point is?

By the way, nice try with your simplistic way of bashing Cebu...I wonder how Cebu become so unique with squatters and garbage.

I agree that oil prices in Cebu is much higher than that in Luzon and Mindanao, and Cebu province already file a case for this matter.

With regards to food and electricity, are you sure Cebu is more expensive than Manila?

If you want to show negative of Cebu, you can do it but you should be fair and factual.

betro

February 6th, 2010, 04:16 AM

@ sleep ayaw na tubayi si hydraulics nagpapansin rana.

ivanc

February 6th, 2010, 04:24 AM

can you post something that's within philippines only for example @metro manila.

fortunately, there has never been any major accident on Manila LRT, thank god.
I was giving TagaCebu a wake up call that accidents happen in train systems too... if you read back on the posts, you'll see his posts on "no overtaking on LRT since they go on railways"..and i agree on that, that there will be no overtaking, however, accidents do happen, (train collision, derailed...)

ivanc

February 6th, 2010, 04:29 AM

BRT is not supposed to compete with the existing PUJ, multicab, minibus, kmk. In as much as possible... the proper way to implement BRT is to absorb most if not all "Jeepney Operators & Drivers" to become a part of the new corporation that will manage the new system (e.g. Transmilenio SA (http://www.transmilenio.gov.co/WebSite/Default.aspx)). If we let the old system to compete... we will have the "New Delhi BRT" dilemma which Sir Paul Villarete is well aware of and I have reason to believe that they are gonna make it right from the beginning as much as possible.

Again, "Where a BRT corridor is introduced, all antiquated systems in that corridor will have to be phased out or partially relegated to Feeder status so as not to compete with the new system thereby ensuring maximum profitability for the BRT system, share holders, & the government".

exactly... i did not mean na sabay silang tatakbo sa isang route.. what I meant with what I said is that the BRT will be serving the same people/riding public currently served by jeepneys, etc... so if you look at it from a jeepneys perspective, the BRT is competition, and its existence will cause the jeepneys to be phased out in that route..

ivanc

February 6th, 2010, 04:34 AM

feel gani nako usa ra na sila ka tawo ni tagacebu...

betro

February 6th, 2010, 04:41 AM

TagaCebu

February 6th, 2010, 07:24 AM

feel gani nako usa ra na sila ka tawo ni tagacebu...
Hydraulics expertise in Math is evident of his professional skills.
We have both independent thoughts for we are not influenced by local
politicians. Our support are for our benefit and for the future of our children.
In fact, big government spending should be decided by a referendum.

We are contributing our ideas to Cebu LRT Development Project Thread.
It would be fair, that Gullas and the province should also invite the bloggers
together with Mayors of Mandawe and of Talisay discussing the Pros
and Cons of LRT while putting aside personal and political issues.

The people of Mandawe and of Talisay mayors who will have to commute
between their cities have been blocked by Cebu City especially
by the head of local Cebu City government.
Let us build this LRT and push for Tri-Cities urbanization.
We do not care who the politician is gets the credit!

TagaCebu

February 6th, 2010, 07:31 AM

Pls be factual and fair to Cebu. But i cannot blame you during your younger days you lived before in the slump area beside a landfill with a very narrow road and full of traffic congestion of trisikad.
Hopefully you mean slump area and not slum.
Hydraulics might own a whole blocked inside a city area.
You might be his tenant.

tigidig14

February 6th, 2010, 10:50 AM

may slump Area pala, kala ko slum lang..lol

betro

February 6th, 2010, 12:07 PM

Hopefully you mean slump area and not slum.
Hydraulics might own a whole blocked inside a city area.
You might be his tenant.

Hehehe thanks for the correction you might be his neighbor. :lol:

TagaCebu

February 6th, 2010, 12:49 PM

Hehehe thanks for the correction you might be his neighbor. :lol:
You actually guessed it right.
It's that big slump mountain area within Banawa overlooking the City.
He might be a Villalon.

greenshields

February 6th, 2010, 02:58 PM

hydraulics

February 6th, 2010, 03:29 PM

http://i763.photobucket.com/albums/xx271/janoxbes/Untitled.jpg
in surveying they call this cut and fill (earthworks)
level the mountains in consolacion and earthfill it into the cansaga bay and what we have? a bigger new cebu city. what a genius idea :applause:

TagaCebu

February 6th, 2010, 11:39 PM

Pretty desperate pitch for LRT...LOL! FYI, a lot of us actually support LRT for Cebu City. I think we're just being level-headed in assessing what is really possible in the next few years rather than depend on a proposal like Gullas' which seem to appear only during election campaign period.
DOTC's mandate is quite clear and is shown in its website. The question that needs to be answered is if the agency is consistent in pursuing this mandate given that their plans are contradictory.

TELL THIS TO CEBU CITY MAYOR why he continues to block LRT
for financial reason, while supporting SRP and giving away parts of NRP
both of which are unfulfilled financial successes.
Philippines has a good Treasury bond rating maybe a source of funding.
A good infrastructure in a long term process is better
than a transitional short sighted infrastructure in a short term that we will affect
generations. This is understanding how government projects work.
We have a pro-Cebu President now and hoping to have continued support
of a New Pangulo from the National government.
Look for a candidate who would need the Cebu's vote and will keep on
or better to give more support to Cebu City's interest.
Regardless to party affiliation, a good guide is a choice and
support candidate of action for Cebuanos and not the promises to their party.

TagaCebu

February 7th, 2010, 08:29 AM

http://www.forexyard.com/en/news/QA-What-election-issues-worry-Philippine-markets-2010-02-07T061110Z

Sunday February 07, 2010 10:11:06 AM GMT

PHILIPPINES-ELECTIONS/ (Q+A, PIX)

MANILA, Feb 7 (Reuters) - Four main candidates are vying for the Philippine presidency in May's election, but no clear favourite, in part because the incumbent is not running and also because the candidates have not fully revealed their platforms.

Analysts say the presidential race will hurt local markets in a big way if the elections do not produce credible results, while a smooth transition of power will likely boost investments in local stocks and bonds.

Here are some questions and answers on major economic and political issues markets want the top four presidential candidates to address:

HOW WILL YOU TACKLE CORRUPTION?

BENIGNO AQUINO - Aquino's phenomenal rise in popularity polls can be traced to an outpouring of emotion after the death of his mother, the country's revered democracy icon Corazon Aquino, in August 2009 and his campaign promise to fight corruption in government.

He vowed in his political ads and on his website to be the country's first and most determined corruption fighter, but has not given much details. In his first address to the business community last month, Aquino said he plans to develop a scorecard to assess various infrastructure projects against benchmarks transparent to the public.

Unlike his other main rivals, he has not been involved in any corruption scandal and has lived simply in the same house he grew up in.

MANUEL VILLAR - Billionaire lawmaker Villar, who has caught up with Aquino's ratings in the latest opinion poll, has been linked to a multi-million dollar infrastructure project allegedly inserted in the national budget. His opponents say the project was aimed at benefitting his family's property companies under Vista Land & Lifescapes.

He promises to fight graft, which he said has contributed to poor delivery of services and bad infrastructure, but also has not given details.

JOSEPH ESTRADA - Former president Estrada was ousted from office in 2001, later convicted of plunder and then pardoned by President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo. He has denied any wrongdoing and has vowed to fight corruption and nepotism. Estrada was known during his three-year rule for throwing midnight parties with gambling and drinking buddies.

GILBERTO TEODORO - Although former defence chief Gilberto Teodoro has never been involved in any irregularity, his close association with Arroyo, who has been hounded by corruption issues since 2005, weighs him down.

During his term as defence chief, Teodoro stopped several multi-million dollar deals, including the acquisition of combat helicopters and munitions for mortars, grenade launchers and helicopter gunships due to allegations of bribery and contract fixing. He has said corruption in government can only be minimised, not eradicated, through a carrot-and-stick approach.

HOW WILL YOU LIFT STATE REVENUES?

AQUINO - Aquino has an economics degree but no experience as an economist. He has said he would not impose new taxes or increase tax rates, and simply improve on revenue collection with more serious implementation of existing measures to curb and punish tax cheats and smugglers.

He said he would pursue the rationalisation of fiscal incentives given to investors as part of his vision of low tax rates for all.

But analysts are nervous about how exactly he will tackle the revenue shortfall given his little executive or managerial experience and the tough task of cleaning up corruption and red tape at the revenue agencies.

VILLAR - Villar has vowed to be prudent in state spending to cut the budget deficit, now at record levels, and raise revenues. He has said tax collections can be improved by strengthening an existing rewards system to encourage revenue agencies to meet their targets. He also supports the rationalisation of fiscal incentives.

ESTRADA - Estrada has not given details on his fiscal programme but in his short-lived presidency during the Asian financial crisis, he kept a tight rein on spending to limit the fiscal shortfall.

TEODORO - Teodoro is widely expected to continue the current government's fiscal programme, but he has said he will push back by a year to 2014 a goal to balance the budget. He said he would keep the 12 percent sales tax and improve on tax collection efficiency but gave no details on how he would do it.

He said he would favour borrowing more to finance the country's budget deficit if credit conditions were favourable.

HOW WILL YOU ADDRESS SECURITY ISSUES?

AQUINO - In his website, Aquino said he will pursue a broadly supported peace deal with Muslim rebels that will address decades of neglect. His running mate and the leader of his political party, Senator Manuel Roxas III, opposed a government deal expanding the autonomy for Muslims that led to an escalation of conflict in Mindanao in 2008.

VILLAR - He has said in public debates that poverty is the root of the the peace and order problem in the southern Mindanao region. He said state resources must be poured into the region if the government was serious in uplifting the lives of people in Mindano.

ESTRADA - He advocated iron-fisted policies to defeat communist and secessionist rebels during his administration and is expected to assume the same stance when elected.

TEODORO - As a former defence secretary, Teodoro is well placed to tackle the communist and Muslim insurgency issues. Like all the other candidates, he favours holding peace talks to end the insurgencies that have killed more than 160,000 people and displaced 2 million. He has also said the government must invest in increased police and military visibility in Mindanao to eradicate private armies. (Reporting by Manny Mogato and Rosemarie Francisco; Editing by Bill Tarrant)

olineil

February 7th, 2010, 09:43 PM

exactly... i did not mean na sabay silang tatakbo sa isang route.. what I meant with what I said is that the BRT will be serving the same people/riding public currently served by jeepneys, etc... so if you look at it from a jeepneys perspective, the BRT is competition, and its existence will cause the jeepneys to be phased out in that route..

To put it in a better perspective BRT will eliminate the competition. But the elimination process is rather inclusive in a sense that it will not totally put operators and drivers out of work but rather will be ported to the new system. Unlike the LRT alternative, that system will definitely compete with the existing transpo system since the benefactors of the system will only be the private consortium (AMA) who will build the system in the first place. This process leaves the jeepney operators & drivers to dry. While a BRT system will not only become beneficial to riding public, but beneficial as well to the existing jeepney operators & drivers of cebu since they will become a part of a new profitable company.

The way I see it, once Cebu BRT becomes established and the business model becomes efficient and profitable enough... these cebu operators might just become the source of new or partial funding for future BRT systems in the country. Just like what happened in Bogota... most operators there now had become millionaires that they are now able to invest as service providers for other BRT systems in Colombia and the rest of Latin America.

How about that? :cheers:

diehardbisdak

February 9th, 2010, 08:48 AM

...mura'g ako'y nauwaw ani para ni Tomas!

Cebu City not province is No. 1 (http://globalnation.inquirer.net/cebudailynews/news/view/20100205-251402/Cebu-City-not-province-is-No-1)<-click for full report

Cebu City Mayor Tomas Osmeña yesterday
corrected President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo'sstatement
that Cebu was emerging number one destination for business.

He said it should be “Cebu City.Way labot ang probinsya! (The province is not included) ” he said.

But Rory Jon Sepulveda, Capitol consultant on information and revenue generation, thought otherwise.

He reminded the mayor that the Cebu Property Ventures Development Corp. (which manages the Asiatown IT Park) is a creation of the Cebu province and Ayala Land Inc.

“Instead of claiming the credit for the success of the BPO-IT here, he should think about it (CPVDC).
And it’s never too late for him to say, thank you to Cebu province because
without the province there’s no IT Park,” Sepulveda said.
--------------------------
Somebody is making this a political issue on an election year.
This reflects the attitude toward a DOTC's project on LRT
which will benefit the Cebuanos in modern City of Cebu.
The statement discourages cooperation as united and one Cebu
The president's week-long tour was to visit people who
represent the whole Cebu and have benefited from National government.
--------------------------
President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo visited ...call centers..
as part of her week-long tour to highlight this administration's cyber corridor projects. nationwide. (http://www.gov.ph/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2002875&Itemid=2)<- full report

MatudNilaBaby

February 9th, 2010, 11:33 AM

...mura'g ako'y nauwaw ani para ni Tomas!

mogawas lagi gyud ang pagka kaliwat hambugero or egoistic attitude be. cebu city cant be what it is today without the province likewise cebu province can not attain it premier status without cebu city. ug sa biology pa there's symbiotic process going. ug mao na iyang kina-iya ang katong taga lungsod dili cebuano kay ang taga syudad ra. that's a very divisive attitude among diehard cebuanos dili angayan padayonon sa iyang katungdanan kay mora naman hinuon siya ang magpabida.

RonnieR

February 9th, 2010, 11:50 AM

these are things cebu differs from other places

oil prices in Cebu higher, food and electricity very expensive compared to other place even in metro manila, power shortage, slums, garbage everywhere, high crime rates in minors, congestions of roads the government should have provided free ways long ago, very narrow roads definitely not a world class. i dont know but i cant see any progress in cebu but instead its deteriorating this is just an advice

What's the connection to your description of Cebu on the proposed LRT? Your description of the city certainly is unbelievable.

Electricity rate: How much is the kw/h in Cebu?

Food: really? I am from Manila but I can assure you that food there is cheaper than Manila. I'm not talking only of upscale restaurants but also those of "turo-turo" or carinderia type.

Slum: not really worse

Garbage everywhere: Where??? I hope you're not referring to the dump site. The streets are generally free of garbage.

High crime rate: Well, I saw lots of tourists in Cebu in downtown, CBD, uptown - testament that crime rate is not high. I even used my cell phone while walking in Colon.

Very narrow roads: drop the word very. Yes, their roads are narrow but not all. This is the reason the government is planning to modernize the transport system of the city/province thru LRT or BRT.

I can see a progressive Cebu with all those projects there. They have Asiatown IT Park, Cebu Business Park, the charm of old downtown, the huge bridges, a dynamic night life.

The facts cannot be denied. It is still the number one tourist destination in the country, the number one emerging BPO center, and finally the second most important city after Metro Manila. :)

olineil

February 9th, 2010, 04:28 PM

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/1227/772512940fdd7a3caaabzv3.jpg

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/705/1315408245695949d9a4oeg6.jpg

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/6193/1353442480521a0e598abqg0.jpg

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/3439/1353689348b55fb8c865ofk1.jpg

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/953/1372262347b50064328fowi4.jpg

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/3170/13750985436d2ee89499ogl1.jpg

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/8474/13806933297683df24beony4.jpg

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/9550/1433833937ab9530dcabbxc5.jpg

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/2684/1439683756f5b00a0edabhj6.jpg

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/9108/1465795414f143c5796ebgx6.jpg

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/3017/14697500374940be6245ozg1.jpg

http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/1839/1470316071a739179b12bgy4.jpg

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/3284/14711754460781f5f957byg7.jpg

olineil

February 9th, 2010, 04:34 PM

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/3923/1509642529a6f9f8943cbbg8.jpg

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/2927/bogotatransmilenio02av4.jpg

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4759/bogotatransmilenio03fy2.jpg

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/6122/bogotatransmilenio05ps9.jpg

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/5295/bogotatransmilenio06oo7.jpg

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/7106/1547093669fa9da78027oga4.jpg

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/4056/1547963534fc1dd5283eogz5.jpg

olineil

February 9th, 2010, 05:49 PM

Bogota's Bi-articulated Bus
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/3194/2048192405194cf7637ebsw3.jpg

Cycloruta - the the bikepath component of Transmilenio
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/853/20481176238f78962760bnr6.jpg

olineil

February 9th, 2010, 08:09 PM

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/1728/imagen40859432jb1.jpg

olineil

February 9th, 2010, 09:01 PM

Quoted from Bogota forums:

Fuente: www.worldexpress.com (http://stephenrees.wordpress.com/2008/04/07/back-to-the-future-bus-rapid-transit/)

Adriana said, on April 7th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
I agree that BRT has much untapped potential, especially for North America… but I also feel that in North America there has been too much generosity in bestowing the BRT moniker on what, compared to international best practice, are enhanced bus systems, not rapid transit systems.

After travelling a bit in Colombia and researching the stellar TransMilenio system in Bogota while there (it really is amazing), I am firmly of the mind that a similar system could do wonders here and even generate developement nodes (with sufficient investment in stations). Interestingly in Spanish they call TransMilenio a “Sistema de Transporte Massivo” (STM) or “Mass Transit System”.. there is no equivilant term for “Bus Rapid Transit”.

To me, the stations were the most impressive part of the system.. They are fully enclosed, have station entry with smart-card turnstiles, and if anything feel like skytrain stations, and set the system well apart from “the bus” thus making it appealing even to car owners.

Numerous other countries are now building systems after the TransMilenio model (Malaysia, China, and *three* cities in South Africa), they’re looking to the best and it isn’t in North America… I even encountered a delegation of politicians, planners and engineers from Capetown who were on a study tour of international best-practices in BRT. I believe their stops were in Guayaquil, Pereira, Bogota, somewhere in Brazil and Leon Mexico.

BC ought to follow suite, in a globalizing world there really are no excuses for ignoring international successes simply because they are someplace “different”. As costs of land and oil rise beyond the reach of larger portions of the population we may begin to have more in common with many of these places and can learn from them.

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/7024/tranmileniotq7.jpg http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/462/tranmilenioiiao5.jpg

Transmilenio since 2005 has reached 104,000 pphpd That's massive!

TagaCebu

February 9th, 2010, 10:57 PM

Philippines' Arroyo signs law on 2010 spending budget (http://asia.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20100209/tbs-philippines-economy-budget-8bedc88.html) <-CLICK FOR FULL REPORT
Reuters - Wednesday, February 10

MANILA, Feb 9 - Philippine President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo signed into law on Tuesday
a measure that sets a budget of 1.541 trillion pesos this year, up 8 percent from 2009,
including stimulus ...with the economy seen expanding at a faster rate of 2.6-3.6 percent
after last year's tepid 0.9 percent growth.
...our vow to ramp up social spending, but in doing so we will not be breaking the bank,"
Budget Secretary Rolando Andaya said in a statement.
...assumes a budget deficit of 233.4 billion pesos, or 2.8 percent of GDP, this year.
...Arroyo vetoed lawmakers' move to reallocate 64.6 billion pesos from the government's
proposed interest payments to various projects because of the absence of funding sources.
....Without new revenue measures, the executive branch will have no cash support ..Financing
the 64.6 billion pesos worth of earmarks and insertions through borrowings will push up the
deficit to 358 billion pesos, or 4.3 percent of GDP," he said.

The education department will get the lion's share of the budget, at 174.9 billion pesos,
followed by public works with 135.6 billion, the interior and local government department with
66.45 billion pesos and the defence department with 57.84 billion pesos, Andaya said.
(Reporting by Karen Lema; Editing by Rosemarie Francisco)
----------------------------------
OBAMA FOR HIGHSPEED TRAIN AND
CEBU WANTS LRT INFRASTRUCTURE... some of that 135.6 billion for public works.

greenshields

February 10th, 2010, 12:40 AM

Great photos of the Bogota BRT. A lot has been written about Transmileno in Bogota. I'd like to think that South American cities were among the first to embrace BRT as a viable but effective alternative to investment intensive (read: expensive) urban rail systems where ridership is not suitable for rail and financial resources are limited. There's actually another great line in Curitiba, Brazil which was developed before Transmileno and serves as a textbook case for transit oriented development.

olineil

February 10th, 2010, 12:44 AM

See the starck change in Bogota, Colombia after Transmilenio.

Caracas Street Before:
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/2598/dibujo1qf2.jpg

Caracas Street After:
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/8375/dibujo2tm3.jpg

Another Before & After:
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/2309/contrasteay8.jpg

Oh wish to see this holistic change to cebu very soon in the next 5-10 years! :cheers:

hydraulics

February 10th, 2010, 04:06 AM

What's the connection to your description of Cebu on the proposed LRT? Your description of the city certainly is unbelievable.

Electricity rate: How much is the kw/h in Cebu?

Food: really? I am from Manila but I can assure you that food there is cheaper than Manila. I'm not talking only of upscale restaurants but also those of "turo-turo" or carinderia type.

Slum: not really worse

Garbage everywhere: Where??? I hope you're not referring to the dump site. The streets are generally free of garbage.

High crime rate: Well, I saw lots of tourists in Cebu in downtown, CBD, uptown - testament that crime rate is not high. I even used my cell phone while walking in Colon.

Very narrow roads: drop the word very. Yes, their roads are narrow but not all. This is the reason the government is planning to modernize the transport system of the city/province thru LRT or BRT.

I can see a progressive Cebu with all those projects there. They have Asiatown IT Park, Cebu Business Park, the charm of old downtown, the huge bridges, a dynamic night life.

The facts cannot be denied. It is still the number one tourist destination in the country, the number one emerging BPO center, and finally the second most important city after Metro Manila. :)

blah blah blah WHATEVER!
look at my idea previous posts its genius!

hydraulics

February 10th, 2010, 04:13 AM

RonnieR

February 10th, 2010, 07:58 AM

blah blah blah WHATEVER!
look at my idea previous posts its genius!

Self proclamation of your intelligence? Unbelievable. After bashing Cebu City, okay....genius, indeed.

Sleepwalker

February 10th, 2010, 08:15 AM

^^Give him chance, @RonnieR. :) It is not the lack of knowledge that is dangerous...It is the illusion of knowledge... :)

greenshields

February 10th, 2010, 08:24 AM

:lol:^^Give him chance, @RonnieR. :) It is not the lack of knowledge that is dangerous...It is the illusion of knowledge... :)

TagaCebu

February 10th, 2010, 09:59 AM

They are "Ramblings of an Eccentric Soul."

RonnieR

February 10th, 2010, 10:09 AM

They are "Ramblings of an Eccentric Soul."

or confused souls :)

olineil

February 10th, 2010, 10:40 PM

2SjkCFDz76g

Rea Veya uses SCANIA buses
NnQQOicGbro

Construction videos
_s3IpfXTIc0

olineil

February 11th, 2010, 04:09 AM

Great pics of Rea Vaya... I Particularly love the station artwork, the station itself and the infrastructure quality!

.....courtesy of ITDP.....if these have been posted, my apology!....

....just imagine the day Joburg can be without this crap below....

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Gaonet/3490974025_4f980cb477_b.jpg

....and now the Rea Vaya dream come true......who knew???

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Gaonet/3490975875_7b99f2e3b7_b.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Gaonet/3490974597_a77044a8f4_b.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Gaonet/3490977887_a338b5962d_b.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Gaonet/3490976595_7d68de8d3e_b.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Gaonet/3490980497_501335b7f5_b.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Gaonet/3490978547_5b23bdd347_b.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Gaonet/3490982399_0bd79b81af_b.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Gaonet/3490981055_b0aa696c8d_b.jpg

olineil

February 11th, 2010, 04:11 AM

Check out the streets... their pretty narrow but they seemed to have managed to fit it in. :cheers:
And those artwork! Man, their awesome and so Hip!

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Gaonet/3490984421_2d334b8802_b.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Gaonet/3491793636_3609371427_b.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Gaonet/3490985267_8ed5f88630_b.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Gaonet/3491795544_56dcdc5123_b.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Gaonet/3491793636_3609371427_b-1.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Gaonet/3491797946_ae4ff36771_b.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Gaonet/3491796160_97b6435e5c_b.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Gaonet/3491799130_3c82dc4ccf_b.jpg

olineil

February 11th, 2010, 04:18 AM

At city center
http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/9875/dsc1097.jpg
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/1483/dsc1091.jpg
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f119/Puleza/P1180330.jpg

olineil

February 11th, 2010, 04:22 AM

Can't stop! Just look at those lovely stations!

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2611/3719539999_9b4de93917.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3514/3719539995_60e11c1da3.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3464/3719539991_2ebd3a6cdb.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3453/3719539989_7042309f55.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3512/3719539985_b90cf507b8.jpg?v=0

The awesomeness:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_gWFx8ixB-YM/SoFk3c7QiBI/AAAAAAAADQE/8Eu5o7lQxEc/s1600/11%2BAugust%2B2009%2B%2B308.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_gWFx8ixB-YM/SoFk3PTBrUI/AAAAAAAADP8/rueHwqNKweI/s1600/11%2BAugust%2B2009%2B%2B309.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_gWFx8ixB-YM/SoFk26-e8eI/AAAAAAAADP0/EGI-3GD8AR0/s1600/11%2BAugust%2B2009%2B%2B310.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_gWFx8ixB-YM/SoFk2j1pG3I/AAAAAAAADPs/s-hRWpmJdz4/s1600/11%2BAugust%2B2009%2B%2B311.jpg

Courtesy http://jhbdaily.blogspot.com

olineil

February 11th, 2010, 04:33 AM

Pure coolness!
Art @ Rea Vaya

West gate 1
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss302/P_Sy/P1180883.jpg

http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss302/P_Sy/P1180884.jpg

West gate 2
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss302/P_Sy/P1180886.jpg

http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss302/P_Sy/P1180887.jpg

West Gate 3
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss302/P_Sy/P1180888.jpg

Mooi Street
http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss302/P_Sy/P1180900.jpg

bakasaurus

February 11th, 2010, 08:46 AM

Or just simply ramblings.. Hahaha. This thread is amusing.

bakasaurus

February 11th, 2010, 09:13 AM

Whoaah!!
This is the one in South Africa right?
Splendid set there bai Olineil!

Can't wait for Cebu BRT hehehe. We can even do better!

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x31/Upington/Gaonet/3490985267_8ed5f88630_b.jpg

The setting in this photo is almost like Colon!

mAiNsTrEaMhunter

February 11th, 2010, 10:43 AM

Self proclamation of your intelligence? Unbelievable. After bashing Cebu City, okay....genius, indeed.

have you come across people who have DELUSIONS OF GRANDEUR?!
pretty much this person thinks about himself. :lol:

olineil

February 11th, 2010, 01:45 PM

MatudNilaBaby

February 11th, 2010, 01:55 PM

have you come across people who have DELUSIONS OF GRANDEUR?!
pretty much this person thinks about himself. :lol:

Ay! Dementia, Schizophrenia, Alzheimer's, Parkinsons Disease:lol::lol::lol:

mAiNsTrEaMhunter

February 11th, 2010, 03:06 PM

^^
sir @matudnila, all four of those diseases you mentioned are denegerative diseases of the brain caused by aging which obviously is understandable, but delusions of grandeur? personality disorders that is? oh, they're dangerous!. :D:D

bakasaurus

February 11th, 2010, 04:43 PM

You can verify the symptoms sa DSM IV..hahaha.

greenshields

February 12th, 2010, 12:49 AM

And I can imagine how it is in India where there are also successful BRT's.

TagaCebu

February 12th, 2010, 11:23 AM

Genetically predetermined — biologically based talent
is not a mental health disorder.

Historical geniuses and visionaries have Asperger's Syndrome.
Michelangelo might have had it. So, too, may Einstein, Socrates
and Jane Austen. All are claimed to have had Asperger's syndrome,
a form of autism.
-----------
The same posthumous diagnosis has been made of other historical figures, among them the scientists
Charles Darwin, Isaac Newton, Albert Einstein and Marie Curie,
the poet WB Yeats and Pop Art giant Andy Warhol.
Microsoft boss Bill Gates' personality quirks have been compared to those of an autistic.

Thus it is thought possible that some maths and physics experts, far from being bright
but anti-social misfits, may actually have had Asperger's like the British mathematician
Richard Borcherds, the 1998 winner of the Field's Medal - the Nobel Prize of the maths world.

Mr Spock of Star Trek is an extreme example of someone driven by logic and systemising,
but who has no interest in the feelings of others, But he is very much a caricature.
---------------
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39158000/jpg/_39158949_einstein_main_203.jpg
This is evident when his avatar was suddenly changed when socially, the forum made remarks.
of his genetically predetermined talents.
------
RECENT EVENT:
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/wave-hello-to-the-surf-genius-with-aspergers-1797025.html
Clay Marzo 20-year-old of Maui, who exploded on to the scene at Puerto Escondido in Mexico
.. . .with his first pro victory, and is now being dubbed the most naturally gifted surfer
of his generation, has a high-functioning form of autism called Asperger's syndrome.
-------
We so called normal people need to look up to visionaries.
This reflects the positive side of this gene, that people with it can contribute in many ways.
Being single-minded, it gives them the chance to focus on something which interests them.
Their talents are not diluted by the everyday interactions that take up so much time for the rest of us.
--
"The main treatment for Aspergers is self-understanding and self-acceptance," adds Dr Attwood.
"The problem is that people will talk of suffering from it. No. You don't suffer from Aspergers, you suffer from other people.
I want people like Clay to be admired, for people to say they've got talent. Don't feel sorry for them, applaud them." (http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/wave-hello-to-the-surf-genius-with-aspergers-1797025.html)