It sucks that the CentrePointe skyscraper is not going to be completed before the 2010 World Equestrian Games. Damn construction delays might have been the reason.

yes, and the construction went off the fast track.. so they can take their time now.

Listen to the crickets chirp and the birds sing. Can you hear it? :D Mr. Webb, welcome to the recession. Join the crowd.

Yes, sadly, alot of great projects have been canceled and/or scaled back dramatically. :(

Yes, sadly, alot of great projects have been canceled and/or scaled back dramatically. :(


Listen to the crickets chirp and the birds sing. Can you hear it? :D Mr. Webb, welcome to the recession. Join the crowd.

^^ I was hoping we wouldn't have to go through this again. The Lexingtonian forumers know. These holdups are not recession-related. The delays here are short term. Lexington is not used to large projects, and is not familiar with the time it can take to get a building of this size off the ground -- that is why the press is commenting so much on the pace of the project. The holdups on this project are typical of any project that was going on before the recession.

Heard that Dudley made some comments about the project but didn't get to hear them. Anyone know what he said? Thanks

http://www.kentucky.com/181/story/819063.html

"If CentrePointe financing fails, Webb has plans B and C, he said"

Developer Dudley Webb told the Lexington Forum on Thursday he has a Plan B and Plan C for financing for the CentrePointe project and if those plans don't work, he will look for fill dirt to level the site and plant grass.

Also, Webb said he remains optimistic that funding from his unnamed, deceased, financial backer will still come through. He said assets of the international investor's estate are being held in numbered Swiss bank accounts.

Conversations with the man's family indicate they are aware of his commitment of $250 million to finance Webb's luxury hotel and condominium project on West Main Street in downtown Lexington, Webb said.

Their concern is, on the advice of their attorney, that the funds are there, Webb said.

Recently, Webb and the family reached a compromise that Webb will not look to them to finance CentrePointe if the money isn't the estate.

Webb was notified in late September of the death of the major investor in this project, Webb said. The investor had signed an agreement to provide the funding for the project in June 2008.

Webb and his nephew Woodford Webb are developers for the proposed project. A major portion of the land is owned by businessman Joe Rosenberg and his family.

Webb said he had evidence one year ago that the investor had earmarked $550 million for three projects in the United States, one of which was CentrePointe.

When Webb revealed in April that the investor had died without a will, concern was raised about whether the building would be built. Lexington Vice Mayor Jim Gray said the community had been hoodwinked.

"Believe me, neither the Rosenberg family or we would have gone in and torn down buildings if we didn't think the funding was there for building this project," he said Thursday morning.

Webb also revealed that an original partner in the CentrePointe, John Anderson, backed out of the project a year ago. Anderson had lined up financing with a bank in Atlanta, Webb said. Anderson has developed other project including Marriott hotels, Webb said.

Webb's Plan B includes another unnamed investor, he said. Plan C, he said, involves an unnamed bank "in the states that is interested in getting involved in helping us do this deal."

Earlier in the week, Webb said he had an offer of 20,000 cubic yards of fill dirt that could be used to level the site. If The Webb Companies could get the dirt for free, it would spread it and plant grass, he said. But he said, he "would hate to spend $200,000 to $300,000" to fill the building site hole when in 90 days, construction might begin.

However, he's tempted to take that step, "to shut these people up," he said, referring to the critics of the site.

Thanks. It will be interesting to see what happens. I hope the original financing comes through as that seems like it would be the quickest. I would hate for it just end up being grass.

Fucking @#$^. Centrepointe is all but dead, and now he states he can get fill dirt in to plant grass to "shut these people up." Thanks Webb for demolishing numerous historic properties -- including the oldest commercial structure in Lexington, and replacing it with... a block of dirt.

so at the end he says construction might begin within 90 days. that is around the beginning of september. I would take that date lightly tho.

Demolition company files lien against CentrePointe
By Beverly Fortune - bfortune@herald-leader.com

The demolition company that razed 17 buildings last year to make way for the proposed CentrePointe development on West Main Street has filed a lien against CentrePointe LLC for non-payment.

The lien for $73,000 was filed last week in the Fayette County Clerk's office for the cost of labor and materials in removing fill underneath the parking lot in the middle of the block.

Diversified Demolition president John Conley said Friday that cleaning out under the parking lot was a request that came at the end of the work to clear the block. "I have not been paid in full," he said. "The $73,000 is the balance owed."

A portion of the parking lot covered the basement of the old Graves Cox building, which had been torn down many years ago.

"There was a lot of concrete fill in the basement of that building," Conley said. "When they tore it down, they had to fill in that hole and they put everything in there."

Of the lien, "It's just business. There are no hard feelings," Conley said.

"I did not want to do it," he said, adding that a lien must be filed within six months of the completion of work "or you've lost your rights."

CentrePointe developer Dudley Webb has told him that "as soon as the financing comes through, he will pay me," Conley said. "In any of our business transactions, Dudley has always been honest with me."

Webb did not want to comment on the lien. "There are a number of issues involved," he said.

The CentrePointe project is for a luxury hotel and condominium project on West Main Street in downtown Lexington.

:bash:

Fucking @#$^. Centrepointe is all but dead, and now he states he can get fill dirt in to plant grass to "shut these people up." Thanks Webb for demolishing numerous historic properties -- including the oldest commercial structure in Lexington, and replacing it with... a block of dirt.

You have no idea if it is 'all but dead'. I agree the delays don't look good, but really we have no clue if they can or can't do it. I would hold off on the vitrol until we have a few more facts, but hey that is just me. I like to have some idea of what I am talking about before cussing people out and calling them names, but to each their own.

Webb's conduct throughout the entire proceedings and his demeanor, especially towards the media, is inexcusable. The truth is being revealed that his game plan was never in place, his financing was insecure, and his constant delays have revealed more than a few cracks. Blaming the weather, then the Transportation Cabinet (which my sources at the KYTC reveal that was NOT the case), then a death, and now this.

Webb's conduct throughout the entire proceedings and his demeanor, especially towards the media, is inexcusable. The truth is being revealed that his game plan was never in place, his financing was insecure, and his constant delays have revealed more than a few cracks. Blaming the weather, then the Transportation Cabinet (which my sources at the KYTC reveal that was NOT the case), then a death, and now this.

That's all true, but what do you expect a developer to do? They are not public servants ... they serve themselves and that's it. It's fine to be mad at him, but he did not act unpredictably.

If you want to be mad, be mad at the public servants that let this thing go through ... and or held this thing up (either way and I think both deserve some blame). Gray and his band of miscreants including the HL stalled this project just long enough for the economy to tank and the financier to die. The mayor and his minions, in response to the others, pushed it through full speed until all the buildings were laying in a pile of rubble. Presented with this divided front from the government, Webb did what was best for himself, demo the buildings first and foremost to end the controversy - very predictably. I truly do think Webb tried to fast track it to meet the games deadline (why wouldn't he, your guaranteed a sold out hotel for weeks), but once that could not be feasibly accomplished ... then everything hit the brakes. Throw in the recession and the funding dying (literally) and you're left with a massive hole in the ground right in the middle of our downtown.

Mostly, I still blame Gray. His rhetoric and fanning the flames caused a controversy where there should not have been one. Webb controlled the block legally and was entitled to demolish it if he wanted to. With no legal option, Gray turned to the court of public opinion to try to stop it, which only stalled the inevitable. Gray should have seen the writing on the wall, voiced his strong opposition in a meeting, and left it go at that. The first thing to go wrong with this project was Jim Gray ... and it was all downhill from there.

Oh, I totally agree with that statement and there is blame on both sides unfortunately. Part of the problem also lies with Lexington's government -- a lot of talk but no action. New plans for downtown development that never make it to the enforcement stage. Designs that are never completed. And so forth. It's frustrating to know that many of these could have had a visible and true impact on DT, but since many were never put into action, we are left with mediocre structures (e.g. Vine and Mill).

I am hoping for the best (and maybe a little too optimistic) for this project. But.. it was very inappropriate for him to say the "shut these people up" part to the press! When you have a large portion of the people against you, that's no way to sway them in your direction. If you are going to be a spokesperson for a project, you shouldn't be talking to the public like that!

I think something that we've learned from this whole fiasco is that the people of Lexington really do care about development. They want to be involved in how the city grows. It's something that everyone in this city has an opinion about. And that is a lesson that developers are going to be taking note of in the future.

I dont buy the argument that "no one is going to want to build in Lexington after this" because if there is money to be made someone will be here to make it. But they will hopefully do it differently next time.

Hopefully there will be a public input process and more transparency in the future as a result. We may have lost a new tower but we may also have gained a better towers in the future.

Too soon to say though...

It really is too soon to say. This project is certainly not dead. It is far more alive than Museum Plaza, for instance. So, even though I have been critical of our chances, the credit markets now are certainly not as tight as they were last fall and this is still a very feasible project to sell to creditors. Lexington is prime for more development ... and that block, of all blocks, is likely to generate a new tower for downtown. Webb may well pull a rabbit out of his hat with this project over the summer. It may not wind up quite as tall as we hoped, but that lot won't sit empty for long.

What the council needs to do though, is assure that one project takes up that whole block. What we don't need is that lot redivided into 6-10 different projects with a Walgreens and whatnot. Keep that lot together. If it takes 5 years to develop or 15 years, so be it.

What the council needs to do though, is assure that one project takes up that whole block. What we don't need is that lot redivided into 6-10 different projects with a Walgreens and whatnot. Keep that lot together. If it takes 5 years to develop or 15 years, so be it.

I don't get your logic here?

So you want one over massive project that would probably fail as opposed to smaller projects that would fit with the rest of the scale of downtown and wouldn't be as hard to fill if they were to go out.

Don't we need another drugstore in downtown anyway?

I don't get your logic here?

So you want one over massive project that would probably fail as opposed to smaller projects that would fit with the rest of the scale of downtown and wouldn't be as hard to fill if they were to go out.

Don't we need another drugstore in downtown anyway?

Absolutely I want one massive project rather than breaking that block up in many pieces. Why is a massive project any more likely to fail than a small project? At least the massive projects fail early, and don't leave empty buildings.

If there is anywhere in town where we are likely to get a new tower, that is it. Towers just don't come around everyday and if we need to be patient, than we need to be patient. The absolute last thing we need is infill in that lot and a bunch of new one-three story buildings.

I don't care if we wind up with one massive tower, such as Centerpointe, or if we wind up with 2-3 mid-rise buildings as part of one project, but I don't want this parceled out an sold to the lowest bidder, because inevitably some junk will take up some of our most prime real estate.

I agree with Whosville about the desire for a single project block. The time necessary to aggregate a city block will dissuade most urban developers and the partial block developments are not cost effective.

No matter what happens the detractors of the Webbs claim that they were "hoodwinked". A high rise like the Financial Tower, a mid-rise like Vine Center or a three story like Marketplace and whether they take a whole block of just part, they will be claimed as failures even though they are all leased at near market wide norms.

Who here remembers the foundation of the Hotel Lexington that sat pit-like until Kentucky Central came along and finished it as an office tower. That had to be nearly two years and there was not this hue and cry of running the developers out of town.

I think the highrise was too much for Webb. He should build something like these two projects that take up the whole block instead: http://www.triangleconstruction.com/m@b_june09/index.htm and http://www.riverplacesc.com/ A building doesn't have to be tall to make an impact. No, I don't think Centrepointe is dead but I do think it is on life support. Hopefully, he'll be able to get financing but I won't hold my breath for that during these hard economic times.

Lexington moves to strengthen appeals process against downtown demolition
By Beverly Fortune - bfortune@herald-leader.com

The city took the first step on Thursday to prevent the demolition of buildings in the downtown Courthouse Area Design Zone until after the Planning Commission can hold a public hearing and take action on appeals.

This proposed change in the zoning ordinance is in direct response to what happened last year on the CentrePointe block on West Main Street, for which the Courthouse Area Design Review Board approved demolition of an entire block of buildings.

Preserve Lexington filed an appeal with the Planning Commission, but the buildings were torn down while the appeal was pending.

On Thursday, the Planning Commission's zoning committee approved the change. The full Planning Commission will consider the change at its June 25 meeting. The Urban County Council will make the final decision.

If the change is approved, when an appeal against demolition within the Courthouse Area Design Zone is filed with the Planning Commission, the building inspection and engineering divisions will be notified. (Anyone may file an appeal.)

"Once that happens, there will be no building or demolition activity until after the Planning Commission holds a hearing and makes a decision," said Bill Sallee, manager of planning services.

The hearing must be within 90 days of the filing of an appeal. All Planning Commission decisions can be appealed to Fayette Circuit Court.

The Courthouse Area Design Zone was established in 2001 to encourage growth and redevelopment downtown while preserving the area's uniqueness. Any exterior changes to buildings in the zone, new construction and demolition must be approved by the Courthouse Area Design Review Board.

Part of the CentrePointe project fell within the zone, giving the board authority over the fate of 14 old buildings.

If I was Jim Gray and I secretly wanted to demolish a block of eyesore liabilities and replace it with a village green, but without looking like a heartless villain, this is pretty much how I'd do it. Ha ;)

Seriously, though, anything is better than what used to be on the site, historic or no. A nice village green in that location would actually be pretty nice. Library to the east, Irish pub to the west, classy restaurants to the north, girls sunning themselves out on the grass, kids tossing a frisbee, the horse carriages rolling past... I can almost feel the breezes already. :) Surely the cynics at the Herald Leader can't object to that?

Still, is a village green preferable to a big shiny new hotel? Hard to say. I personally still hope the project happens. But Lexington has a lack of real parks downtown, and it would also be a great location for outdoor concerts, festivals, plays, etc. Heck, even bring back the farmer's market.

I won't be upset either way. And Lexington will have rid itself of a bit of blight.

ACtually Lexington has a bunch of parks downtown. They have Cheapside, Gratz Park, the Courthouse Park, Pheonix Park, Thoroughbred Park, Triangle Park. All have green space and most can host concerts, etc. While more is always nice, I think it is too important a block not to develop it somehow. Also, it is probably worth $5M+ which is a hell of a price to pay for a park. Something will go there with in 5 years I would almost guarantee. The Webbs do not like to inventory land. Lots of people who own land downtown like to hang on to it forever, but the Webbs are not one of them. They are builders and managers, not land speculators. Something will happen.

The property is currently valued in excess of $20 Million, which the city does not have to spare for park space that they cannot develop and about 4x the value of property identified for the new City Hall.

Also Triangle and Thoroughbred Parks are owned by the Triangle Foundation and are not city parks.

But they are downtown parks open to the public, so for all practical purposes they are. BTW, any idea how the liability works on those parks. I doubt Webb would just let people on the space even if it was grass for fear of being sued. I was wondering if the city could manage them somehow and therefor provide a buffer for liability purposes. Hopefully it doesn't come to that.

^^Let's wait till that issue comes along before we worry about that. Chances are, construction will start in a few months. That's not very long in the whole scheme of things.

But they are downtown parks open to the public, so for all practical purposes they are. BTW, any idea how the liability works on those parks. I doubt Webb would just let people on the space even if it was grass for fear of being sued. I was wondering if the city could manage them somehow and therefor provide a buffer for liability purposes. Hopefully it doesn't come to that.

AM590 had someone on from Lexington Forum last week after the breakfast talk about Centrepointe and temporary uses. He stated liability was the major delay (that is often not considered by many in the public) in the land being turned into a temporary park. He mentioned that the city could lease it for 6 months or whatever to assume some liability, but that would mean the city has to come up with an appropriate amount of money to pay the lease. Obviously, money is hard to come by at this time.

Any increase in the cost for the overall property only puts the larger project at risk for lack of profitability. It would be great to use that land for something aesthetically nice while financing for CentrePointe is seeking financing, but if it puts the entire project at risk then I don't think it is worth it

Bad management. This makes me so mad. Having a big unused dirt lot right in the middle of your city is like having a herpes sore on the lip of a ugly gender confused asian :bash:
http://i43.tinypic.com/2yzn1gy.jpg

Bad management. This makes me so mad. Having a big unused dirt lot right in the middle of your city is like having a herpes sore on the lip of a ugly gender confused asian :bash:


You want to step outside? :rant: Don't make me get Bloo Q Kazoo on you. :bash: :cry:

WHAT...this died?

WHAT...this died?

Not that i'm aware of. If this was proposed in Greenville, it would have been dead two years ago. Seeing how it's in Lexington though, I would say it has a good chance of getting built. :)

Webb agrees to temporarily spruce up CentrePointe site

LEXINGTON, KY - Developer Dudley Webb announced today that his company will begin filling-in the block-sized, barren depression left by the demolition of buildings to make way for construction of his delayed CentrePointe hotel/condo/retail high-rise. Plans call for trucks to begin hauling soil to the site on Monday. The dirt was contributed by The Buckingham Companies, builder of The Lex apartment complex on South Broadway.

"I think there was general interest in the community in getting this done," said Webb, who is awaiting word on the financing of CentrePointe, stalled by the 2009 death of an unidentified foreign investor. "Everybody wants to get the downtown looking the best that it can be, even if it's only on a temporary basis."

Webb said the Buckingham companies has agreed to help load and haul dirt from some 20,000 cubic feet of soil excavated to construct The Lex. "We'll bear the rest of the expense," he said. "It's twice what we need, but they've welcomed us to take whatever we can use of that dirt."

The dirt will be spread and the site recontoured, Webb said. "And then we're going to add six inches of additional top soil and make it green. Then we'll figure out whatever other improvements we're going to make to the property at that point."

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Seems like there are too many on here that want this project to fail.

Seems like there are too many on here that want this project to fail.

I'm pretty sure it has already failed :lol:
It was a poorly designed building anyway so ya I'm glad it failed

How can you be glad this failed? You didn't like the design, so your happy with the failure. We could have used the jobs, the revenue boost, the skyline boost, the excitement boost ... etc.

And, even though I was all along one of the biggest skeptics (almost entirely because of the economy), this project is not dead and we shouldn't officially call it dead. The grass is a very bad sign, but it seems Webb was sort of forced into that by the city (for some unknown reason - why would the city want to stall this even further and make it more expensive?).

This is different than the projects in Louisville and Nashville and other places where financing never was in place and it was dependent on leasing large percentage of the condos ... here, at least if we believe Webb, the financing was in place and is simply on hold pending divestiture of an estate, which does take time.

I know you all think Webb is evil right now, but the more I hear from him, the more he impresses me. This guy will probably go down as one Lexington's best corporate developer in its history. The development business is not a pretty business. If you don't make money, you don't get to build more buildings. Webb has been far more willing to work with the city than other developers. He was willing to take a public lashing from our insane vice-mayor (maybe someone can explain to me why we even have a vice-mayor). Was willing to stand outside his house and grant interviews to a hostile press. Is willing to cost himself more money to temporarily fill in the site. Was willing to work with the city to get a TIF which he didn't need or want.

I probably wouldn't buy the guy a drink right now, but we don't need to tar and feather him either. Be patient. Buildings like this take time even in much larger cities. He has put the whole thing together in a horrible economy ... I can't want to see what he does if the economy improves next year. He will develop this block in a big way, whether it is this design or some other. You don't spend all that time and effort to put all those properties together if you don't plan on doing something big.

Other cities don't demolish a block of buildings, find excuses to delay the project (i.e. permits, state highway's fault, then an investor died long before) and then plant grass to soothe over the anger.

Lexington has done it twice and we should have learned our lesson after the first. Anyone remember the Governor Wilkinson proposal for the World Coal Center at the former Phoenix Hotel? He had the former hotel and historic property demolished, only to suddenly lose his funding. Excuse after excuse came by until the city demanded he grass over the park -- because of the NCAA games that were going to roll in that year.

So it remained a park for a while until Park Plaza and the library was built.

I also remember that former Governor Wilkinson was not smart enough the understand that housing that many high-powered coal company executives in one building would raise the suspicions of numerous Federal agencies (FTC, ICC, etc). He had the State to fall back on and in their taking a portion of the property, had to build something. Hence the parking garage and then selling the air rights for the apartments in order the make the project work.

Wilkinson was a well connected development idiot who quickly found himself out of Donald and Dudley's league. Many of his developments languished or went into foreclosure, while one of the Webb projects did so quickly. Not surprisingly, it was the one in which Wilkinson had forcibly made himself a part.

Wallace Wilkinson was an idiot. This is not the same thing, IMO. I tend to agree that we they were too quick to tear down the buildings, but something will happen on this site. The Webbs will get the project done. I hate that it has come to this, but hopefully it will all work out. I really like the building and would love it if it happens. I think it is exciting and a great addition to downtown. How can you cheer others failure. Even if you hate that the buildings were torn down, they are gone now. Everyone should be rooting for this to get built at this point. Even if you don't love the design, and no design in history has had 100% approval, we should all agree it is better than a hole in the ground or a big patch of grass. People amaze me sometimes. I have never understood taking pleasure in someone else's failure, especially when that someone is trying to do something to improve your city. Look, I don't like the design or concept of Hamburg, but I don't want all the stores to fail. It hurts the city and ultimately, that is what I am rooting for, a successful, vibrant city and failed projects don't lead to that.

Wallace Wilkinson was an idiot. This is not the same thing, IMO. I tend to agree that we they were too quick to tear down the buildings, but something will happen on this site. The Webbs will get the project done. I hate that it has come to this, but hopefully it will all work out. I really like the building and would love it if it happens. I think it is exciting and a great addition to downtown. How can you cheer others failure. Even if you hate that the buildings were torn down, they are gone now. Everyone should be rooting for this to get built at this point. Even if you don't love the design, and no design in history has had 100% approval, we should all agree it is better than a hole in the ground or a big patch of grass. People amaze me sometimes. I have never understood taking pleasure in someone else's failure, especially when that someone is trying to do something to improve your city. Look, I don't like the design or concept of Hamburg, but I don't want all the stores to fail. It hurts the city and ultimately, that is what I am rooting for, a successful, vibrant city and failed projects don't lead to that.

Well I think it is the wrong project for the city thats why I don't want it to succeed. It caters to the rich for one. It ignores everyone else in the city. Also the way the Webbs have gone about everything about this project just pisses me off. I know you all will say that its private property and they can do what they want with it or whatever. I personally really disagree with this. A project of this scale should involve the community and try to work with it rather than completely ignore it.
Also the Webbs have successfully killed Vine Street over the past 30 years and they have had a history of generally messing things things up.

So that is pretty much why I want this project to fail. Give me a new project that will actually help the city and then I'll want it to succeed.

How did they kill Vine St? That was Urban Renewal projects. People bid on those projects and the people in charge awarded the projects.I personally don't like the way it all turned out, but hindsight is 20/20. This was happening in nearly every city in America. They wanted downtown to become a business district so that it wouldn't become entirely empty. It isn't beautiful, but they were more successful than people give them credit for. The reason downtown is able to come back now is there are people there and it wasn't just left to fail.

So you don't like things to be built that cater to rich people? Why shouldn't they cater to rich people? There isn't a decent hotel in downtown Lexington, or Lexington in general for that matter. Why shouldn't there be one? You don't think bringing in tourists, conventioners and business people, adding jobs, adding to the skyline and increasing the property value help the city? What pray tell do you propose building?

How did they kill Vine St? That was Urban Renewal projects. People bid on those projects and the people in charge awarded the projects.I personally don't like the way it all turned out, but hindsight is 20/20. This was happening in nearly every city in America. They wanted downtown to become a business district so that it wouldn't become entirely empty. It isn't beautiful, but they were more successful than people give them credit for. The reason downtown is able to come back now is there are people there and it wasn't just left to fail.

So you don't like things to be built that cater to rich people? Why shouldn't they cater to rich people? There isn't a decent hotel in downtown Lexington, or Lexington in general for that matter. Why shouldn't there be one? You don't think bringing in tourists, conventioners and business people, adding jobs, adding to the skyline and increasing the property value help the city? What pray tell do you propose building?

Because most rich people are assholes. It is really that simple. They only care for themselves rather than the community. That is why we shouldn't make projects that ignore everyone else. Also the hotel part isn't really the aggravating part it is the 20 stories of million dollar condos that would sit on top of it. Also I really don't see the point in having to stay in a hotel that is much fancier than a hyatt or hilton.

Well I think it is the wrong project for the city thats why I don't want it to succeed. It caters to the rich ...

What do you think every farm within 30 miles of downtown does? Keeneland?

Catering to the people with money is the way of life. I agree they are not as involved in the community and whatnot, but they build their own communities ... in expensive high-rise condos and gated suburban subdivisions. You don't see them because they don't want you to. They have their own communities, but if those communities provide jobs for our normal communities ... so be it.

Because most rich people are assholes. It is really that simple. They only care for themselves rather than the community.

It's been my experience that people who say things like this don't actually know many rich people, and have a caricature in their head of what rich people are like. It's usually motivated by jealousy more than anything.

Are there rich people who are jerks? Of course, just as there are poor people who are jerks. But many of the most generous, compassionate people I know are wealthy. They are grateful for what they've been blessed with and they give back to the community in lots of different ways, and it bothers me when people assume they're "assholes" just because they have money.

I'll probably never be wealthy myself, but does this make me hate the rich? Of course not. Nothing destroys communities faster than divisiveness and animosity between the social classes that need each other.

Also I really don't see the point in having to stay in a hotel that is much fancier than a hyatt or hilton.

I don't see a point in owning a car much fancier than a Ford Taurus, but I'm still glad Porsches and Aston Martins exist, and I don't begrudge people who own them.

Because most rich people are assholes. It is really that simple. They only care for themselves rather than the community. That is why we shouldn't make projects that ignore everyone else. Also the hotel part isn't really the aggravating part it is the 20 stories of million dollar condos that would sit on top of it. Also I really don't see the point in having to stay in a hotel that is much fancier than a hyatt or hilton.

This might be the most closed minded, rediculous statement I have ever heard in all of my life. So, because they have managed to have success in life they are assholes? Do you know any rich people who haven't been your boss? They are like every other section of people, some nice, some pricks, some generous with both time and money and some not.

You basically are saying that since you don't care about staying in a nice hotel, no one should. Why do you get to decide how nice something is? It isn't just rich people staying there either. They are lots of middle class people that like to splurge on a vacation and stay at really nice hotel. Or people on honeymoons or for a birthday or anniversary that want to make it special by staying in a nice hotel. Why do you get to decide that they shouldn't and that they are assholes? I stayed in an expensive hotel the night I got married and barely had two nickels to rub together but I wanted it to be special. Get out and see the world some, try to meet some people outside of your social economic cirlce. It certainly doesn't sound like you have.

Also, this isn't a even a Four Seasons or something, it is a slightly nicer Marriot.

BTW, Woodford Webb is probably the nicest guy I have ever known. He is incredibly giving and I have never known anyone who knew him who didn't love him.

I wouldn't go as far as to say the Webbs are the nicest bunch of people around, but to extend that argument and say that "most rich people are assholes" is an awful argument to begin anything with.

Most of the money that is donated to charities and to the arts is not by the middle-class. Yeah, a $20 here and there is nice and all, but these organizations need hundreds of thousands, and millions more. Who will front that money? The government? Hah.

Bill Gates, Buffet and Clinton are some of the largest philanthropists in the world, thanks to a free market and a capitalistic economy that makes this possible. I am considered 'rich' amongst my peers, yet I'm one of the bigger philanthropists in my neighborhood. I am humble, don't seek the lavish riches and respect where I came from -- and most rich individuals are the same way. Who cares if they spend their money on that BMW or Lambo instead of charities or art museums? It's their money; they earned it and the government has no role or right to dictate how one spends their own earnings.

Is it under construction yet? :D Oh wait...:lol:

I see I ruffled some feathers here lol
Well at least I got the thread going a little bit again even if it is off topic to a degree

gt I can see you took some of my words out of contexts and you are using some bad aguements to back up your statements.

First off I never said anything about just because they are successful they are assholes, rich and successful mean two different things

Also you said why do I get to decide how nice something is. Well let's see here maybe because it is my opinion and that is why I said "I don't see the point"

Also as I said before the hotel part doesn't bother me all that much so I really don't mind if you stay in a fancy hotel

Oh and Citizen I do happen to know quite a few rich people but unforturealty I am from the Suburbs where people try to distant themselves away from each other and flaunt there money. A lot of these people think because they have money they are better than those who don't. Which is where I draw my conclusions from. If it is not from personal experience then where should my opinions come from.

I am considered 'rich' amongst my peers, yet I'm one of the bigger philanthropists in my neighborhood. I am humble, don't seek the lavish riches and respect where I came from -- and most rich individuals are the same way. Who cares if they spend their money on that BMW or Lambo instead of charities or art museums? It's their money; they earned it and the government has no role or right to dictate how one spends their own earnings.
Seicer I wish there were more people like you out there

Oh and one last thing. If you haven't been able to tell already I really don't care at all about being "rich". I really would much rather live minimally and give as much as I could back to people who need it more.

That is all for now sorry for getting off topic

Is it under construction yet? :D Oh wait...:lol:

Here's to hoping the city of Greenville falls into a massive sinkhole.

somebody should post pics of the dirt. we should be documenting little bits of progress like this.. I would but i'm out of town for a while.

I will try to get a pic of the dirt early next week. They have a large earth moving truck and several other trucks on site and have started spreading dirt around over the rubble that was there.

I will try to get a pic of the dirt early next week. They have a large earth moving truck and several other trucks on site and have started spreading dirt around over the rubble that was there.

The worst part is that they have all the equipment that you would expect to see if construction is actually starting. So, you drive by and think ... that's what that block should have looked like right now.

CentrePointe update: Timing is everything. (http://tomeblen.bloginky.com/2009/07/08/centrepointe-update-timing-is-everything/)
By Tom Eblen, Herald-Leader Columnist, July 8, 2009

Today’s meeting of the Courthouse Area Design Review Board offered a few updates on CentrePointe, the massive downtown development project that 16 months after its announcement remains a mirage.

Darby Turner, the attorney for developer Dudley Webb, said Webb is in Europe working to secure financing for the $250 million project from the estate of a mysterious, unidentified investor who is said to have died last fall, leaving the hotel-condo-office tower in limbo.

“We hope to have that (financing) in 30-to-60 days,” Turner said. But he quickly acknowledged, “We’ve been saying that, frankly, for some period of time, but all in good faith.”

The three review board members present seemed understandably skeptical. A year ago, they accepted Webb’s argument that he needed quick permission to demolish a dozen buildings on the block, including one dating to 1826, because his development was too important to delay.

Turner said today that once financing is secured, excavation work could begin within a month. Digging down three stories for an underground parking garage will take about three months. Then, foundations must be built before the proposed 35-story tower can begin rising from the ground.

The big issue, of course, is financing. The global economic meltdown has stopped similar projects worldwide dead in their tracks. The demand for big four-star convention hotels and luxury condos just isn’t what it used to be.

Because CentrePointe sits inside the historic overlay district of the old Fayette County Courthouse (now the Lexington History Museum), the review board had to give permission for the old buildings to be demolished and CentrePointe to be built.

The board gave that one-year permit last November. The permit won’t expire until November, but Turner was appearing to ask for a one-year extension. Now.

The board was confused. Why would Webb want an extension that would expire in July 2010 rather than asking in the fall and getting one that wouldn’t expire until November 2010?

Turner said having more lead time would “give assurance to our investor that this project is still doable in Lexington.” He also said he wanted to avoid someone trying to challenge an extension in the fall.

What Turner didn’t say — but several people were thinking — was that it also would move the next renewal request, if there is one, to July 2010 instead of November 2010, when the mayor and Urban County Council members must stand for re-election. CentrePointe’s public credibility isn’t what it used to be.

Asked about that after the meeting, Turner said politics had nothing to do with his request.

Review board Chairman Mike Meuser, a lawyer, wanted to delay action on Turner’s request until the board’s next regular meeting in October. But a staff attorney told him that wasn’t allowed under city ordinance.

“It just doesn’t make any sense to me, either for the applicant or the community or the board to reauthorize these permits now,” Meuser said.

Still, the board ended up approving the extension request. Legally, it seemed to have no other choice.

In other news, Turner said J.W. Marriott, which Webb says plans to put a luxury hotel in CentrePointe, wanted interior design changes that will require some architectural revisions, such as moving elevators.

But Turner said the exterior design hasn’t been changed. I guess that means it still looks like some of those developments I saw going up around Atlanta in the 1980s.

While the review board was meeting at city hall, a bulldozer was rumbling around the CentrePointe site, three blocks west on Main Street. It was spreading fill dirt recently brought in so grass can be planted.

Despite the latest “30 or 60 days” estimate, I’m not holding my breath. CentrePointe may defy the global economic odds. Construction may really begin in a few months.

But I think a better bet might be on who will get next summer’s mowing contract for the empty block in the center of Lexington.

As a side note, the Centrepointe (http://urbanup.net/index.php?catid=445) article has been updated regarding the latest delays.

Centrepointe: fast-tracked and now stalled (http://urbanup.net/index.php?q=blog#94)
Authored by Sherman Cahal on July 15, 2009 at UrbanUp

Centrepointe (http://urbanup.net/index.php?catid=445), proposed on March 3, 2008, is a $250 million, 35-story skyscraper in downtown Lexington, Kentucky. Bounded by Main, Vine, Limestone and Upper streets, the development consisted of a four-star, 243-room hotel, 77 residential condominium units, retail and restaurant space, and offices. The tower would also incorporate LEED features, including green roofs and energy-efficient windows along with other sundries.

The rendering of Centrepointe was criticized from nearly the beginning, with the most vocal cheerleaders coming from Vice Mayor Gray and numerous bloggers, calling the skyscraper out of synchronization with the harmony of the downtown core -- dominated by small- to mid-rise mixed-use structures. Gray pointed out that the Downtown Master Plan, which was completed only several years prior and involved input from hundreds of citizens, called for a maximum building height of 15 stories in the downtown core. Others also lashed out at the generic design and the partial removal of Phoenix Park across the street that would make way for additional retail and parking.

Centrepointe's proposal called for the removal of one entire block of unused and active buildings, some of which were historically significant. Included were two of Lexington's oldest commercial structures -- the Rosenberg structure.

You can read and comment on the latest UrbanUp blog post here (http://urbanup.net/index.php?q=blog#94).

It completely baffles me that Gray - who owns a construction firm of his own - is regarded as a credible critic. Every single Herald-Leader article loves to point out "by the way, Vice Mayor Gray is opposed!" And yet they never think it's newsworthy to point out that he arguably has a conflict of interest.

THIS IS JUST TOO FUNNY!

"Massive rain caused Centrepointe Lake to begin spilling into the streets of downtown Lexington on Tuesday August 4, 2009."
http://media.kentucky.com/smedia/2009/08/04/17/469-090805Rain2.slideshow_main.prod_affiliate.79.jpg

Reminds me of "the pit" in downtown Greenville: http://www.flickr.com/photos/restedtraveler/476267279/

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_lPOV8FZAOCI/Sni7APNjTQI/AAAAAAAAA4w/RdMwFa15peg/s400/dudley+lake.jpg

http://tomeblen.bloginky.com/files/2009/08/centpte.jpg

I guess we all know what the dog thinks of the whole situation...

The property drained a lot better before the complainers forced him to fill the area with clay.

Now it will barely drain at all.

Pretty sad when even the dog knows what's going on. :lol:

The property drained a lot better before the complainers forced him to fill the area with clay.

Now it will barely drain at all.

I could basically have written your reply for you. So predictable.

I could basically have written your reply for you. So predictable.

So you are saying that the situation now is better than it was before. A graded field that holds water and will not grow grass. And I am saying that a prime construction site, ready for building to begin is better than a mass of derelict, mostly empty buildings that were "vibrant" for 4 hours a day(at most). Maybe we are both too predictable.

So you are saying that the situation now is better than it was before. A graded field that holds water and will not grow grass. And I am saying that a prime construction site, ready for building to begin is better than a mass of derelict, mostly empty buildings that were "vibrant" for 4 hours a day(at most). Maybe we are both too predictable.

Wow. I'm not sure how me posting a couple of amusing pictures means that I am saying that the situation now is better than it was before. I could care less whether or not there is fill dirt on that spot. It looks like ass either way.

My point was that when I was posting those photos, I knew that you would come on and say something about how the land wasn't flooding before those commie bastards made Webb fill it in. And you did just that.

I could care less whether or not there is fill dirt on that spot. It looks like ass either way.



If you "could care less", then why not go ahead and do it? I'd be more impressed if you couldn't care less. That would show that you were incapable of caring any less than you do now.

Sorry....it's just a pet peeve of mine.


Carry on.

If you "could care less", then why not go ahead and do it? I'd be more impressed if you couldn't care less. That would show that you were incapable of caring any less than you do now.

Sorry....it's just a pet peeve of mine.


Carry on.

Point taken.

Just as a clarification, the "commie" bastards didn't close the Dame. The capitalistic market and free market forces did that. The Webbs didn't take the properly illegally, didn't conspire to shut down every nightclub that was there... they only acted on what they thought was the best use of the land, and as one of the last large parcels that was available in a package, they took up the offer.

Now, have they been the nicest bunch? No. But that doesn't equate them to a communist.

Just as a clarification, the "commie" bastards didn't close the Dame. The capitalistic market and free market forces did that. The Webbs didn't take the properly illegally, didn't conspire to shut down every nightclub that was there... they only acted on what they thought was the best use of the land, and as one of the last large parcels that was available in a package, they took up the offer.

Now, have they been the nicest bunch? No. But that doesn't equate them to a communist.

Yargh. I guess I need to be perfectly clear on this forum so I don't get misunderstood.

The "commie bastards" comment was a joke. I was making a jab at the Webb supporters who act like those "complainers" don't believe in the free market and capitalism. I was in no way directing that towards the developers.

There are several groups around town that have made it their passion, or duty, to complain about anything that could look derogatory about CentrePointe. Some of them are associated with Ace Weekly and some with another blog.(and Dame, I am not saying that you are one of those complainers). One of the most vocal is Jim Gray and every chance he gets to say something, the Herald-Leader has to print it, then Tom Eblen gets to comment on it.

It has been suggested that the city take this project away from the Webb's and give it to another developer who will do the job right. The phrase used is "eminent domain", which used this way in Kentucky is illegal. That does sound like "commie bastards" to me, yet these folks are upstanding local businessmen and economics intelligent people. One local blog has called for a somewhat forced "central planning agency" to ensure that the plans get carried out. Wasn't this the hallmark of the Soviet Union and red China? Didn't they both fail in the long run?

Of all the possible scenarios that faced the old Dame building, extensive remodeling, continued lack of maintenance and the demolition(which happened) for new construction, it is clear that the business could not have continued in that location. Holding a grudge due to an economic situation makes no sense.

There are several groups around town that have made it their passion, or duty, to complain about anything that could look derogatory about CentrePointe. Some of them are associated with Ace Weekly and some with another blog.(and Dame, I am not saying that you are one of those complainers). One of the most vocal is Jim Gray and every chance he gets to say something, the Herald-Leader has to print it, then Tom Eblen gets to comment on it.

It has been suggested that the city take this project away from the Webb's and give it to another developer who will do the job right. The phrase used is "eminent domain", which used this way in Kentucky is illegal. That does sound like "commie bastards" to me, yet these folks are upstanding local businessmen and economics intelligent people. One local blog has called for a somewhat forced "central planning agency" to ensure that the plans get carried out. Wasn't this the hallmark of the Soviet Union and red China? Didn't they both fail in the long run?

Of all the possible scenarios that faced the old Dame building, extensive remodeling, continued lack of maintenance and the demolition(which happened) for new construction, it is clear that the business could not have continued in that location. Holding a grudge due to an economic situation makes no sense.

I too shall beat the dead horse! Or rather critique the horse beating...

Forcibly transferring ownership from one individual or consortium to another is known as expropriation which is not a hallmark of communism but rather socialism (two very different things that are often lumped together as one in the same)

Eminent Domain is not even a good description of this suggestion (not critiquing you Carto, I know you were just quoting) because eminent domain is the forcible transfer from private to public ownership. Expropriation is the forcible transfer of property or assets from one private individual or group to another.

Carry on.

The city would have to use eminent domain to obtain the property, hence transfering the property private to public and then sell the land to someone else.
BTW, who the hell do they think would/could do this project? The Webbs are the largest developers in town and are the only developer in town that has done major downtown highrises. I seriously doubt a developer from another state is going to come in right now and do it. You can't get funding for a towner in NY or Chicago much less Lexington.

The city requires you to seed with in 14 days of the end of grading which is pointless because grass won't germinate at these temperatures. They really can't do anything until this fall. Until then it will be a mud pit.

The city would have to use eminent domain to obtain the property, hence transfering the property private to public and then sell the land to someone else.
BTW, who the hell do they think would/could do this project? The Webbs are the largest developers in town and are the only developer in town that has done major downtown highrises. I seriously doubt a developer from another state is going to come in right now and do it. You can't get funding for a towner in NY or Chicago much less Lexington.

The city requires you to seed with in 14 days of the end of grading which is pointless because grass won't germinate at these temperatures. They really can't do anything until this fall. Until then it will be a mud pit.

Cousins Properties of Atlanta: http://www.cousinsproperties.com/ They're planning a mixed use project for downtown Greenville. Can't see why they couldn't for Lexington.

The city would have to use eminent domain to obtain the property, hence transfering the property private to public and then sell the land to someone else.


As I have stated before, the use of eminent domain to give or sell to another is against KRS 416.675(3). The law is very clear and specific. If the city takes it by eminent domain, then it MUST be used for civic purposes. No ifs, ands or buts.

Looks like they adding more dirt so it doesn't pond anymore.
I know they can't take it by eminent domain, I was just pointless pointing out that if they did it it would be eminent domain.

Grass seed going in...

http://www.kentucky.com/latest_news/story/901031.html

Woohoo. :banana: We're saved. :lol:

Woohoo. :banana: We're saved. :lol:


Asshole. Why are you obsessed with this project falling through? You make me sick.

^^He was also obsessed with Museum Plaza failing, matter of fact g-man is happy of any development that fails outside of Greenville.

They're being mean to me. :cry: I'm telling my mom.

^^Internet flamer of the year.......g-man

Is there really NO new news going on with Centrepointe? Did they secure new finiancing or what? Word in town is this is still going to happen... but I see no evidence of it. They need to get this done.

There's been nothing in the media about Centrepointe for a couple months now. I may try and email the Webb Companies again. I got a response several months ago regarding the official height but I didnt get a response last time when I asked if any progress had been made with financing.

Got a response...

Documents have been signed, but we are still awaiting our funding.

Thanks for your interest......

Dudley

That's great Ian, nice work getting some kind of info. I hope something starts to happen there by the end of the year!

The thing that makes me nervious about this is they installed a sprinkler system, not cheap. That seems to me to be a bad sign as they seem to think it is going to take a while. Who knows, in the grand scheme of this project, a basic sprinkler system is a drop in the bucket. I do hope they can get it going though.

Meh, i'll believe it when I see it. In November, they'll probably say another six months.

i dont know if this is a good or bad sign or nothing really... link below

www.cptlex.com

Hmmmm...interesting. Hopefully it doesn't mean they're redesigning the building and making it smaller.

Not sure either...

State approves far lower TIF funding related to CentrePointe

By Scott Sloan - ssloan@herald-leader.com
A state board gave final approval Thursday to the Urban County Government's plan for public improvements around the CentrePointe project but dramatically reduced the amount of state money for the projects.
The city intends to make several major improvements, estimated to cost $298 million, to the Phoenix Park and courthouse area surrounding the proposed hotel complex.
The initial plan was for the state TIF participation to amount to $112 million, but the final approval Thursday came with $69.8 million. The decision to lower the amount followed a review by an independent consultant.

http://ad.doubleclick.net/ad/kentucky.news/breaking_news;c2=breaking_news;c3=breaking_news_homepage;!category=breaking_news;template=article;pos=center6;group=rectangle;sz=300x250;ord='+_krdDartOrd+'? (http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/kentucky.news/breaking_news;c2=breaking_news;c3=breaking_news_homepage;!category=breaking_news;template=article;pos=center6;group=rectangle;sz=300x250;ord='+_krdDartOrd+'?)

"LFUCG has also reviewed the report and agrees with the findings and the reduced amount eligible for recovery," the state said in a memo outlining the TIF deal.
The idea behind tax increment financing is that in blighted urban areas, development creates new tax revenue that the city would not have if the land stayed neglected.
What the city wants in the way of public improvements at the site is a tunnel to connect Phoenix Park to the high rise; a pedway to connect the Financial Center garage to CentrePointe; a 331-space underground Phoenix Park garage; a new Phoenix Park; restoration of the old Fayette County Courthouse, Cheapside Park and courthouse plaza; and a permanent site for the Lexington Farmers Market with a covered structure, sidewalk improvements and public art.

Reach Scott Sloan at (859) 231-1447 or 1-800-950-6397, Ext. 1447.

the website is back up too.

Well, let's hope something good comes from this.

http://www.wkyt.com/home/headlines/62424547.html

Fence around Centrepointe will be put back up

According to the Mayor's office Dudley Webb, the Centrepointe developer, will be putting a privacy fence back up around his property.

The chain link fence came down earlier this September leaving a lush green field open with no trespassing signs in it's place.

Apparently the fence coming down will only be temporary, the Webb company applied and was granted the right to construct a new fence along the city block.

Meanwhile the property is being visited by UK students as a class project. Students are working to see what the best use of the space would be for the city.

The Mayor's office also says the Webb company will allow the city to use the property in some capacity during the World Equestrian Games, but would not specify how the field would be used.

That last sentence makes me believe this thing is a very long way from getting built if at all.

That last sentence makes me believe this thing is a very long way from getting built if at all.

Hard to see it any other way. Sad. That is a year off, meaning no plans for even starting construction for a min. of a year. Yikes. It will be interesting to see what eventually goes there. Something will, it is too prime a location.

BTW, what kind of privacy fence? If it is a 6 foot tall wood fence that you can't see through I am going to be incredibly annoyed. i would rather have the chain link than that. I hope you can at least see through it to the grass. I wish the city could lease it for a nominal fee so that people could at least use the space. It is nuts to have an entire city block be sowed in grass right in the middle of town that no one can use.

How unusual is this whole thing? i.e. could the 550 ft tall originally planned stucture still see the light of day? Or is it 99% dead? Where there delays with the Lexington Financial building? Or any of the 30+ story buildings in Louisville?

This sucks. Would have been a perfect addition to downtown. And Lexington would have had the state's tallest.

Was at the Florida game Saturday looking at downtown from the stadium thinking how good Centrepointe would look there with the present structures.

Most large developments will see delays and set backs in some form or another but typically not on the scale we've seen with Centrepointe.

Waterview Tower in Chicago was already rising nearly twenty stories out of the ground when it got shut down due to financing. It was supposed to have been 89 floors. Now no one knows what will happen to it.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i120/Iandependant/000000000000000.jpg

http://www.wkyt.com/home/headlines/62424547.html

Fence around Centrepointe will be put back up

According to the Mayor's office Dudley Webb, the Centrepointe developer, will be putting a privacy fence back up around his property.

The chain link fence came down earlier this September leaving a lush green field open with no trespassing signs in it's place.

Apparently the fence coming down will only be temporary, the Webb company applied and was granted the right to construct a new fence along the city block.

Meanwhile the property is being visited by UK students as a class project. Students are working to see what the best use of the space would be for the city.

The Mayor's office also says the Webb company will allow the city to use the property in some capacity during the World Equestrian Games, but would not specify how the field would be used.

haha I know all of those people in that interview :lol:
unfortunately I am in another studio so I did not get to go to the site

If you guys want to know what they come up with I can post some pictures of their work. Right now they are just working on site analysis for it though

Horse farm fence being built around CentrePointe site downtown

The horse farm motif is used everywhere from our jail to our schools. Why not on an empty block in the middle of downtown Lexington?

Work started Tuesday to erect a four-plank fence, typically found at horse farms, around the CentrePointe block where a hotel and condominium project has been proposed.

"We wanted to dress it up, make it look nice, developer Dudley Webb said. "We told the community we wouldn't leave it an eyesore."

Workers from Myers Fencing of Nicholasville set fence posts along the CentrePointe lot in downtown Lexington Wednesday. Installation on the fence, which will be painted black, is expected to be finished Friday.

Seven employees from Myers Fencing in Nicholasville began setting 120 fence posts around the perimeter of the block Tuesday. John Jackson, one of the workers, said he expected the fence to be completed Friday. It will have five gates, one on each corner and a service gate on the Vine Street side, and will be painted black.

Webb said that in addition to the aesthetics of a having a signature horse farm fence around the property, the 2-acre site is being enclosed to prevent vandalism, such as trucks or all-terrain vehicles ripping across the block, tearing up the grass before it gets established.

"We spent a lot of money down there to beautify it, and we certainly don't want it destroyed," Webb said.

Asked why people wouldn't respect the grassy plot, Webb chuckled. "Based on prior experience. We had terrible rains over the weekend, and we have mud holes down there we're trying to cure. We put those 'no trespassing' signs in those areas to keep people out."

Webb declined to say whether the block would become a public-style plaza or whether the public would have access at all. He has offered it as a venue to the 2010 Alltech FEI World Equestrian Games and to the LexArts, possibly for HorseMania 2010.

"We haven't talked to our insurance carrier. We would have to get a special rider for those types uses, which we can do with very little problem," he said.

Several people have asked whether there will be actual horses there. No, Webb said. But a fence company employee jested with a passerby Wednesday, saying retired racehorses would be pastured there.

A complaint about dangerous sidewalks around the block was lodged with the city several weeks ago. David Jarvis, director of code enforcement, said The Webb Companies was contacted about making repairs. The site is still covered by a demolition permit, which prevents the city from citing the developers, he said.

The sidewalks will be repaired when the fence is completed, Webb said. "We'll meet our responsibilities."

After old buildings were razed last year, the block was alternately a dust bowl and mud hole, depending on the weather, until it was seeded with Kentucky bluegrass this summer.

Beautification has included clearing demolition debris, spreading top soil, installing an irrigation system, seeding it and now building a fence. How much has that cost?

"Substantially more than we intended," Webb said.

But until something is built there, he said, "This will be a good interim use."

^^So weird

Now all they need to do is put real horses on site and we'll have yourselves a winner. :lol: :D

Actually... I think that would be freaking amazing. To go to Downtown and see horses grazing!! I LOVE it. And the thing is, I'm not even joking. If it's just going to be a field for a year, why not do something interesting for the city next summer?

:nuts: so what the hell? centrepointe's future isn't even directly addressed. are they still "trying to get financing"? are they saying it's 100% not happening within the next year now? are they still committed to getting this done? or is this a museum plaza never happening phantom project now?

the main financier passed away. money was "tied up" etc. that was months ago. no news on that front?

i was expecting the steel to be 20+ stories up by now :bash:

From my perspective of watching Lexington grow for over forty years, whenever a proposed project get stalled by the economy or contested to the point of rejection by the neighboring public, something DOES get built eventually. The final product is usually not as well designed or built and usually much more expensive in total cost to the general populace.

Will this ever get built? I don't know, but the entities involved do not seem to be willing to give up and sell out. The have been known to sit on property for long periods of time before and appear to be doing so again.

Mayor Newberry has not claimed either way that the project is still a go or is dead. The mayor is supportive of all developers who may propose a major building or project such as this and I would expect that from a mayor. There are not two competing projects for this site and the mayor has not chosen sides, even though there are some who would have you believe that.

If this were to follow the path of the Newtown Pike Extension, and languish for years or be built in the next three, how much will it affect the regular taxpayer in the end?

There's a lot of impatience too, since downtown Lexington hasn't seen on a development of this size in years. They probably don't remember how much time it can take to build a project in the hundreds of millions of dollars. The initial delays may have lead to a better development, since more time was spent to answer the public's design critiques.. instead of rushing into construction.

The delays don't matter. If this tower takes three or five more years to start construction, it will seem like nothing in the long run. Nobody will care how long it took to build a few decades down the road. The biggest issue of this building shouldn't be the time it takes construction to start, but should be that we get a good development on this property.

Ther's some merit to that. Afterall it took the Lex several years to start and its a much smaller project. However, a lot of the impatience is probably also coming from the continual setting of and then rolling back of timelines from the developers. That probably isnt helping matters.

You're right Ian604, the developers have duped a lot of people into believing that construction would start overnight. It probably would have started soon too, if the city hadn't stepped in and appealed this project right away, delaying it. When the original timeline was thrown out, the impatience started.

For comparison, does anyone have any memory/info as to how long it took for the Lexington Financial Center to start vertical construction? Or the more recent Aegon and Hummana buildings if not?

Them implying that they won't be doing anything for a year+ just seems very odd to me. If they don't have answers about their financing yet... fine... but they are predicting they won't have finacing for the next year as well?

Makes no sense. Can someone explain this?

B/c even as far as the world games etc. it would be much more impressive for visitors to see Lexington working on a major project such as this vs. a empty grass lot with a planked fence :llama:

Makes no sense. Can someone explain this?

B/c even as far as the world games etc. it would be much more impressive for visitors to see Lexington working on a major project such as this vs. a empty grass lot with a planked fence

I agree with you hipster. I believe that the developer has agreed to not begin construction until AFTER the WEG is over. This seems to be the collective will of the community, although some see this as a hopeful sign that it won't get built at all.

Lexington is a very superficial place. A whole lot of image over substance and most of us don't want to be seen without our make-up on, our clothes straight and looking our best. I think that it would be a feather in our cap if we could be in construction mode when the world come to our door. I think that it would look like the city is more recession resistant the others on America. I would not want to see all of downtown torn up, but this one section may not be so bad.

The problem, as I see it, is the festival that they will be throwing in conjunction with the games. A showcase in the spotlight without the ugly warts of the last block of poorly maintained buildings. The images that our guests take home with them will run far deeper than the looks of downtown.

But I don't think Webb would care about the WEG time frame. I would think they would start tomorrow if they could. Hence my wondering what the heck is going on. The primary financer passed away... they stated months ago they're are looking into alternate financing... and zip updates since then. Now it seems they are saying no construction for a year, I just don't get it. Are they using the WEG as an excuse for more time to get the financing in order? Or just stalling while still holding on to this prime downtown real estate considering other options?

"I think that it would be a feather in our cap if we could be in construction mode when the world come to our door."

Exactly. Especially with the state of the national economy. So I don't see them "holding off" until the WEG is over.

Personally, I was just really happy for the city that they got this project and I don't think people(the naysayers in particular) appreciate how HUGE a deal this is for the city and how this would pay off for the city indefinitly into the future.

Even simply the aesthetics of adding a 550 ft tower and how that reflects on the city adds up in innumerable ways ... how we go from one(arguably 2 counting Kincaid, but not really) "big city" tower to two(vs Louisville and thier half a dozen or so). Not even counting the life this would add to downtown which is starting to head in the right direction after years of stagnating... a Malone's to draw/keep people down there itself is huge, plus the bars and shopping that'd be part of the package etc. And expect the need for rooms to grow with the eventual new basketball arena, 10,000+ seat Commonwelth Stadium expansion and the freeing up of Rupp to host more events which Lexington really needs.

Also note the "4th Street Live"-type potential of a block of entertainment options that's already forming.

Drives me nuts driving by that block everyday with nothing but a billboard of what's supposed to be there. Hence my previous question, did the LFC have delays like this? Or Aegon etc.? Maybe I'm just being impatient.

http://i35.tinypic.com/15mz2g7.jpg

http://www.freedomkentucky.org/images/9/97/RevisedCentrePointeDec2008.jpg

"Comparable Developments in Other Cities

Frost Bank Tower, Austin, TX

In 2003, Austin, Texas experienced a similar development situation. A proposed 33 story skyscraper was vehemently opposed by the city's creative class. The concern with the skyscraper, Frost Bank Tower, was that the four walls of the massive structure would not engage the city through providing accessible retail and restaurants at the street level. When completed however, the building featured several retail and dining options that all but hid the view of the large skyscraper from the street level. Despite the concern raised over the building, The Frost Bank Tower was voted best new building in Austin for five consecutive years.

Museum Plaza, Louisville KY

A nearly identical development took place in Louisville, Kentucky. In 2006, plans were made for a massive three tower, 63 story skyscrapper to be built on the river in downtown Louisville called Museum Plaza. The structure would house an art gallery, a hotel, the University of Louisville's fine arts program, a park, luxury condominiums, and a parking facility. Estimated costs for the project grew to nearly $465 million. House Bill 549 enabled the project to secure one-fourth of its funding publicly however due to continued financial complications, the project was halted in 2008 and has yet to continue."

http://www.freedomkentucky.org/images/thumb/2/20/FrostBank_000.jpg/150px-FrostBank_000.jpg
Frost Bank Tower, I'm sure we're all familar with MP

Bob Quick, Commerce Lex President, and Woodford Webb, Commerce Lex Chairman & CentrePointe Developer, will be on Kentucky Newsmakers on WKYT at 11AM Saturday morning. The interview will include a segment about CenterPointe.

Whoever finds a link to this footage, please post it as soon as you find it.

Bob Quick, Commerce Lex President, and Woodford Webb, Commerce Lex Chairman & CentrePointe Developer, will be on Kentucky Newsmakers on WKYT at 11AM Saturday morning. The interview will include a segment about CenterPointe.

Did anyone catch this? I just caught it as it was going off on my computer, so I missed it. Was any light shed on where this project stands and if will move forward soon? I really hope Lexington does not have a big empty lot until after the games. I'd prefer construction over that. At least it would prove something will be built.

Anyone catch it?

Re: Woodford Webb on KY Newsmakers.

It was actually a fairly short Q&A. No real news. See link, you may have to adjust the preview to see the portion related to CentrePointe, between 18:30 and 21:36.

http://bit.ly/saHOC

thanks for the link!

q: "Is there any updated timetable you can give us this morning?"

a: "Well, nothing uhh.. that uhh.. I would venture to give right now... We hope that we can start construction tomorrow. We hope that the horse fencing goes down tomorrow, and we start digging for the underground parking tomorrow. I don't know that it will happen tomorrow, but I think it will happen sooner rather than later. It's a terrific, privately owned block and it could really enhance our downtown.."

thanks for the info. was out of town and missed it.

Thanks for the updates, I was out of town and missed the program.

So- are they saying Centrepointe, as planned, is still a go? No downsizing etc.?

"Thank you for posting! Your post will not be visible until a moderator has approved it for posting."

Well, that's new.

here are two editorials by Dudley Webb (in response to editorials by two other individuals) in the Herald Leader and Business Lexington. Not much said but he does say he is still in talks with hard rock cafe and house of blues, but i really think both of those are a far stretch for lexington.

http://www.kentucky.com/589/story/1011678.html

http://www.bizlex.com/Articles-c-2009-11-11-90359.113117_Webb_responds_to_critical_editorial.html

here are two editorials by Dudley Webb (in response to editorials by two other individuals) in the Herald Leader and Business Lexington. Not much said but he does say he is still in talks with hard rock cafe and house of blues, but i really think both of those are a far stretch for lexington.

http://www.kentucky.com/589/story/1011678.html

http://www.bizlex.com/Articles-c-2009-11-11-90359.113117_Webb_responds_to_critical_editorial.html

Nowhere in either of these articles does it mention the Hard Rock Cafe or House of Blues. You are trying to cloud the issues again.

"As to the suggestions from several that we should try to land either a Hard Rock Café or a House of Blues as an entertainment venue for this project, I have done so, and contrary to what Mr. Morris and Dr. Kouns have said or believe, both are still interested and our discussions with their site consultants are continuing."

business lexington article. no apology needed...make sure you know 100% before you bash.

Anything new?

This thread is depressing, to say the least.

Well nothing new when it comes to the actual Centrepointe building but several people including myself found other uses for the site. Here is the link for a video of the Centrepointe flash mob snowball fight that took place a few days ago.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlOlgFt4WRA

Hahaha that's hysterical! I wanna play!

Wow. I guess you can chalk this project up as DEAD.

Unreal.

^^ show me your sources.

Here was the last update:

Financing is being secured from the dead financer. It was commited "unconditionally" - meaning that under no circamstance will the Webb Co's not receive the funding. They will receive the funding no matter the "condition". It just takes a lot of processing since it was in a Swiss bank account.. some of the most secure accounts in the world.

Also, the Webbs claim to have a backup plan B, as well as a plan C for the project.

Until you have sources, you shouldn't just go declaring this project dead. I'm not saying that the Webbs are being 100% truthful at the moment.. only they and their company know that. The term you are looking for is "on hold".

Also, the Webbs have agreed to allow the public into the lot for a few occasions, including the World Equestrian Games, if digging hasn't started yet. That is probably a good indicator that they don't expect the funding to be released for a while.

Lexington has shown a lot of impatience on this project. This waiting period will be short compared to long-term effects that the new block will have on the city, financially, and asthetically.

Rumor has it the Swiss guy sent all his money to somebody in Nigeria shortly before he died. Hopefully thats not true and this thing gets built!

Where did you read/hear this, Cashville?

This will probably bring me a lot of flak but here goes.

I have been watching the downtown streetscape progress for a while and have noticed that the sidewalk work along the CentrePointe property is only near the new curb and gutter. The Parks Department is spending much capital in maintaining the grassy area and recently installed two metal farm gates. This leads me to believe that the project is NOT dead.

I hear from sources that the "fenced pasture" will be used during the WEG as a staging area (probably in conjunction with the Spotlight Festival and other downtown activities) and then be available for development. The last inkling that I got was that something will be announced BEFORE THE END OF THIS WEEK.

I am anxiously awaiting the news reports but I don't expect it until Friday.

http://www.bizlex.com/Articles-c-2010-06-09-93055.113117_New_Design_for_CentrePointe_Submitted.html

Lexington,KY-A scaled down 25-story plan for the CentrePointe hotel/condominium project in downtown Lexington -"sans pointe"- was unveiled today by the Webb Companies.
...
Today was the deadline to submit a revision of the most recent 35-story version of the proposed hi-rise, which itself was a reduction from the original 40-story tower.
...
Developer Dudley Webb declined to comment for this article.

The new design will be reduced to 23 floors and 288 feet tall

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i120/Iandependant/centrepointe.jpg

The new design will be reduced to 23 floors and 288 feet tall

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i120/Iandependant/centrepointe.jpg

So much for the state's tallest, still a nice design though :cheers:.

So we got all excited for two years for this.

Does anyone have an updated skyline photo with this in it?

Where are the developers going to get financing? The couldn't get it then. How are they going to get it now? The new design of the building looks okay, but I still don't expect it to get built sadly in this economy. I've seen proposals like this from local developers in other cities including Greenville where the plans have been down-sized numerous times and the projects still haven't gotten built. Fool me once: shame on you. Fool me twice: shame on me.

I think that they have gone from somewhat grand to somewhat bland, but I guess that is what the people of Lexington want in the long run.

I was just wondering when the cptlex website will be updated with the new renderings... In the past, they would be up by now. Does anyone else think there will be other revisions before this is said and done...for better or worse?? Does anyone think there is any way we could still wind up with a new tallest?? Just curious on your thoughts.

I wouldn't be surprised if there were some more small design changes but I think the scale of this project is far more financially realistic in that current state of our economy.

The previous design would probably have worked out before the crash but I don't think it's realistic now.

I was just wondering when the cptlex website will be updated with the new renderings... In the past, they would be up by now. Does anyone else think there will be other revisions before this is said and done...for better or worse?? Does anyone think there is any way we could still wind up with a new tallest?? Just curious on your thoughts.
The renderings did not appear on their website until they had approval from the CADRB and thus approval to build. This set of drawings has not had such approval and is scheduled for a hearing on June 30.

So we got all excited for two years for this.

Does anyone have an updated skyline photo with this in it?

Usually me or superfly mike models the building to make a skyline shot. I've been thinking about modeling one to put in google earth and get some skyline pics.

Revised CentrePointe proposal wins approval of design review board
(http://www.kentucky.com/2010/06/30/1331020/revised-centrepointe-proposal.html)By Beverly Fortune
bfortune@herald-leader.com
http://www.lex18.com/images/CPT-Aerial-20100630-small1.jpg
A controversial proposal to build a 25-story building in downtown Lexington cleared another regulatory hurdle on Wednesday, but there's still no money to build the long-stalled CentrePointe project.

The Courthouse Area Design Review Board unanimously approved a new design for the project, which includes an upscale hotel, 63 condominiums, ground floor retail space and 50,000 square feet of office space.

Attorney Darby Turner, who represents The Webb Companies and developer Dudley Webb, acknowledged that financing has not been secured for the proposal, but said he had met with two large banks recently and both had shown interest in the project.

About 40 people were in the audience on Wednesday for the meeting, some of whom urged the board to reject the proposal.

Julie Good, executive director of the Blue Grass Trust for Historic Preservation, urged the board to insist that developers demonstrate they have adequate financing before approving the CentrePointe design.

However, Turner said there is nothing in city ordinances that requires proof of financing, ability to build or for the developer to reveal his business plan. He said the developer has $17 million tied up in the project, including the land.

The only question before the Board, Turner said, was whether the design complied with design standards of the Courthouse Design Zone.

Webb said after the meeting that economic circumstances over the past two years have been difficult for his project. But those hindrances are changing "slowly but surely," he said.

"There is a lot of interest on the part of lenders to get back into the market, contrary to what has been said here today," Webb said.

He said he is "optimistic" CentrePointe will get financing and that construction will begin this winter.

"We'd like to see the actual start of physical construction start this winter, dig the hole, and come back out of the ground with the parking garage in the spring," he said.

Wednesday was the fourth appearance before the board by the CentrePointe developers. In June 2008 they received approval for a 40-story CentrePointe and permission to demolish 14 buildings to clear the block bounded by Main, Vine, Upper and Limestone. In November, 2008, developers asked for changes to the design. In July, 2009, they requested a reauthorization of their permit to build as it was ready to expire.

On Wednesday, the developers were seeking another one-year extension of their construction permit, this time for a scaled-down version of the building.

Billy Van Pelt, design review officer for the board, presented findings that analyzed the new design, found it to be in compliance with the Courthouse Area Design standards, and recommended approval.

Good, of the Blue Grass Trust for Historic Preservation, spoke at the meeting, saying the height of the proposed building was not in compliance with either the Downtown Master Plan or the Courthouse Area board's own standards.

"At 25 stories the CentrePointe building will be 55 percent taller than what's called for in the Downtown Master Plan," she said.

Rob Morris, a blogger on local issues, said he thought the issue the board should decide was not the CentrePointe design, but "whether this design is even possible."

The local market for expensive properties is overbuilt, Morris said. Currently, 75 million-dollar residential properties are for sale in Fayette County. Only five have sold since January, and eight sold in 2009, he said.

On that basis, there is a 13 to 15 year supply of million-dollar homes for sale, he said.

Webb said not all the condominiums will cost $1 million. For 14 smaller units, described by Turner as hotel-room condos, the starting price will be $300,000. The most expensive penthouses will be in the range of $2.5 million.

Webb called the units "affordable."

"They obviously can't exceed market or you can't sell them," he said. "We're not suicidal."

business lexington article

Board approves redesigned CentrePointe
(http://www.bizlex.com/Articles-c-2010-06-30-93499.113117_Board_approves_redesigned_CentrePointe.html#print)Financing uncertain in uncertain economy

by Tom Martin

June 30, 2010

Lexington,KY - A redesigned 25-story CentrePointe hotel/condo/retail project proposed for downtown Lexington won the unanimous approval of the city's Courthouse Area Design Review Board (CADRB).

The design was scaled down in response to market feedback, according to attorney Darby Turner, who went before the board representing the Webb Companies and developer Dudley Webb to request that it reissue a city permit to build within the board's area of oversight.

The new plan proposes reducing the height of the project from 497 feet to 287 feet - 23 stories devoted to occupation, the remaining two housing mechanical apparatus and other uninhabited space. The tower is a "stepped" form that becomes a slender tower.

It was the fourth time the CentrePointe developers have gone before the board.

As with the original plan, unveiled in 2008, the new design by CMMI Architects of Atlanta includes a J.W. Marriott Hotel with space for 237 hotel rooms, plus 63 residential units. And there would be 50,000 square feet of office space which, according to Turner, is spoken for by a single prospective tenant.

The project, stalled when financial backing collapsed, still lacks financing. Turner told the CADRB, however, that he has met with two national banks and both are interested in the project, noting that "activity is beginning to pick up."

Opponents of CentrePointe appeared as well and asked that Webb be required to document that he has adequate financing for the project before the board approves the project.

Turner responded that the city does not legally require that a developer prove he has financing.

A letter from Marriott International,Inc. that was included with the developer's filing for re-issuance of their building permit confirmed the hotelier's continued commitment to working with the Webbs. The letter, signed by Thomas D. Papelian, stated, "understandably, challenges in the economy and throughout capital markets have caused project delays and have required certain programming modifications in regard to the scale of the project."

The hearing came as a survey by McGraw-Hill Construction, a unit of McGraw-Hill Cos, found 39 percent of U.S. construction companies say project financing has become harder to obtain. A majority said the current market continues to decline. The survey received response from some 2,000 contractors and engineers, nationwide.

And in an indication of a down market for luxury real estate such as that proposed for CentrePointe, FirstAmerican CoreLogic, a firm that tracks real estate and mortgages, says its data shows the percentage of $1 million-plus loans more than 90-days delinquent rose to 13.3 percent in February, half again as high as the 8.6 percent overall overdue rate.

The million-dollar delinquency rate has exceeded the overall past-due rate since April of 2008, according to the company.

wow...that is majorly scaled back. BOO!

I actually think this has a pretty good chance. They have the hotel, apparently have most or all of the retail and office spoken for and had 'interest' from 50-60 people on the condos. The only thing that has any real risk is the condos and part of those are 1 bedroom units that will be used as hotel suites when not in use so they have the ability to have some cash flow even if they can't sell them immediately. I wish it were still as tall, but a new 25 story building in downtown would be a nice addition and I think will be an attractive building.
BTW, why is the Blue Grass Trust still on this, there are no longer any historic buildings. Their opposition seem vindictive at this point. They lost the battle to save the buildings so they are against the project. That ship has sailed, at this point building something is clearly in the best interest of everyone. Also, why on earth would the city need to know if the Webbs have financing? I understand if they were want to demolish buildings but again, that ship has sailed so what does approving the plans have to do with the financing? Do they ask if Ball Homes has financing before approving an apartment building in the suburbs?

BTW, why is the Blue Grass Trust still on this, there are no longer any historic buildings. Their opposition seem vindictive at this point. They lost the battle to save the buildings so they are against the project. That ship has sailed, at this point building something is clearly in the best interest of everyone. Also, why on earth would the city need to know if the Webbs have financing? I understand if they were want to demolish buildings but again, that ship has sailed so what does approving the plans have to do with the financing? Do they ask if Ball Homes has financing before approving an apartment building in the suburbs?

Look across the street there is still historic buildings. They aren't only concerned with the buildings on that block but the area as a whole. Also that Ball Homes argument is actually relevant. Look up the Miller House on Chilesburg Rd. and you'll see what I mean. It is an architectural masterpiece and was almost destroyed but was saved because people saw its relevance.

There is a 30 story office building right beside it and a 20 story apartment building on the other side. There is also a 15+ story historic office building on the side of the street you are talking about.I am glad the part that borders the street is only going to be 3-4 stories and think that it will be an appropriate scale for what is around it. If we are going to build up in Lexington and not out this is by far the most logical place. If you go north or south from there you are bordering historic residential areas with 2 story buildings.

I am glad they saved the Miller House but that isn't actually relevant because there are no buildings on the Centerpoint block, just grass, so why does the city need to know if the Webbs have financing?

It really IS a nice design, even though it's " downsized " ! If it's ANY consolation to disappointed Centrepointe fans, many grand project's throughout the USA are experiencing similar changes. A major hotel expansion, in my own (Illinois) hometown, also underwent a controversial redesign and overall reduction. Let's face it! The market's nothing like it was, for luxury condos and hotel projects, before the Great Recession hit. With so much economic instability, still in existence, potential financiers and lenders are not taking risks with few buyers. Nevertheless, the revised Centrepointe's STILL a great addition to Lexington's skyline. It, sure as hell, beats nothing!

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i120/Iandependant/2011-06-01-SGA-massing-stud_aurora_standalone_prod_affiliate_79.jpg


Eblen: Will the saga of CentrePointe have a fairy tale ending?

Keep your fingers crossed. There seems to be a real possibility that the ugly duckling proposed for that vacant lot downtown could be replaced by a swan.

Developer Dudley Webb, unable to finance the 1980s-style tower he proposed to replace the block of old buildings he demolished, has taken a new approach. With help from Mayor Jim Gray, Webb has hired one of the world's best up-and-coming architects to rethink the design of his hotel-condo-office-retail project, CentrePointe.

Jeanne Gang of Studio Gang in Chicago will present her initial site plan Thursday at the first of at least two public meetings in Lexington. Stop by the Lexington History Museum at 4 p.m. to hear from her, Webb and Gray — and contribute your thoughts.

Gang said in a telephone interview Wednesday that her design is rough and flexible at this point because she wants input from more people who live in Lexington. She also wants help from Kentucky architects to give the block variety and local flavor.

I found Gang's concepts for the development encouraging. She wants it to be pedestrian-friendly, compatible with its surroundings, unique to Lexington and "a place that is interesting to be."

Gang envisions a cluster of buildings along Main Street — like there used to be — rather than a single edifice. The buildings would include a variety of locally designed, contemporary architecture that complements in scale and design the 19th and 20th century buildings across the street. "It will give it that authenticity and feel without it being forced," she said.

The new CentrePointe — it really needs a new name, by the way — would have two towers instead of one. The shorter tower would house offices and the taller one would have a hotel and condos. The size of the towers would depend on the tenants Webb secures, but Gang said she would use computer models to show where the shadows would fall to help place the towers so they don't hulk over Main Street or neighboring buildings.

Gang has designed amazing buildings all over the world, so why is she bothering to work in Lexington? Gang said she was familiar with the controversy surrounding CentrePointe from her visits to the University of Kentucky's College of Design, and she sensed a opportunity to create something special.

She was impressed by Lexington's rural land preservation efforts and historic downtown architecture, she said, which together offered the possibility for creating vibrant urban space on the block. "It is truly a livable city," she said. "And this is truly the heart of Lexington."

Also, Gang said, she was impressed by the mayor's commitment to design excellence. "He gets it," she said. "That makes a huge difference in deciding where we want to work. So many places don't get it."

Gang's creativity and reputation may well be the key to Webb securing the financing and tenants he needs to transform CentrePointe from a failure into a success. And for the city, it could mean the difference between another generic concrete box and a landmark Lexingtonians will be proud to have at their city's heart.

New centrepointe rendering of the two towers with the tallest being 388 ft! http://tomeblen.bloginky.com/2011/07/13/see-studio-gangs-newest-centrepointe-designs-here/#lexky

http://tomeblen.bloginky.com/files/2011/07/centrepointe1.jpg

http://tomeblen.bloginky.com/files/2011/07/centrepointe2.jpg

Now, what's not to like about that ? I'm sure someone will find something.

I am seriously loving this design.

This is EXACTLY what Lexington needs but of course people will always complain just to complain. Now you'll hear it's too modern when before it was too big and bland...what you gonna do. Oh well I'm gonna stay positive and hope construction starts this fall!

It''s just a matter of "you can't please everybody" With a project like this, that will be such a part of Lexington's identity, a lot of people are going to have strong feelings about it.

I like that the height is about 30'-40' shy of LFC. It'll keep us from having a crescendo and drop-off effect on the skyline like the old 550' design would have done.

With the addition of all this new housing to the urban core (not just Centrepointe but the last boomlet that brought us the 500's, Nunn building, MLK condos, Centercourt, Main & Rose, etc... a modest but noticable increase) and the addition of a couple grocery stores, some good upscale restaurants and soon a new-title bookstore in addition to all the used bookstores peppered around the periphery of downtown I think we're building a solid groundwork for the next uptick in downtown construction.

I'm encouraged that we're not just seeing new retail establishments but new kinds of retail and not just new restaurants but new kinds of restaurants.

I think a new hotel two blocks further from the convention center will give tourists more access to the rest of downtown, especially to the South Hill and North Limestone districts which have a lot of local character that a tourist may have been less likely to stumble upon previously.

I went ahead and changed the title :)

The design is amazing!

I like it, but it does seem a costly concept. I hope the Webb's go for it and do not scale it down.

Still need to give the Webb's a lot of credit through this process. That we arrived at this day is just as much a credit to the Webb's as it is to Gray.

Hope the hotel commitment holds. Really, 10 floors of this building is a rather small hotel, so perhaps the hotel could be talked into taking a few more floors. Anyone have a sense of whether J. W. Marriott is still on board?

The condo component is rather small (7 floors), it seems, so getting enough commitments for them shouldn't be too difficult in Lexington's improving real estate market.

I could certainly see this one happening soon with the improving economic picture. Starting construction by the end of the year is probably too optimistic, but I could see this starting up in the Spring.

How long did it take to sell out the condos in the now Hilton Hotel building and how many of them were to locals?

I have been told that the condo commitments for the original design were strong despite the high price. Those commitments have not wavered, even with the current economy. There are still some who will pay for the privilege of owning such a place with that kind of view.

I would guess the the Marriott is still in the game, otherwise their name would have been removed from the existing signs a while back. being a smaller hotel allow them to be much more upscale.

I still expect foundation work by the first of the year.

Link to a skyline sketch with the new tower incuded

http://www.smileypete.com/LargeImageWindow.lasso?-token.largeimage=/placedimages/327AE0NKy2C99EA9.lg.jpg

Another angle on the model from the Main Street side.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i120/Iandependant/3508580.jpg

^^ Sweet. Lexington is getting a great structure with this tower. Awesome design. Can't say enough good things about it, really. :)

Superb design and very awesome for Lexington!

Nooooooow we're talking. More of this:

http://www.smileypete.com/placedimages/327AE0NKy2C99EA9.lg.jpg

and this:

http://www.archidose.org/Blog/ascent1.jpg

and this:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_m1r2SueKxx4/SJZ7hhFTLTI/AAAAAAAACR8/8Dp-rDQ1tBM/s400/louisville-museum-plaza.jpg

because Kentucky can do better...

than this:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1179/1078019078_c6868b90a3_z.jpg

^^ Totally agree!

Where are the developers going to get financing? The couldn't get it then. How are they going to get it now? The new design of the building looks okay, but I still don't expect it to get built sadly in this economy. I've seen proposals like this from local developers in other cities including Greenville where the plans have been down-sized numerous times and the projects still haven't gotten built. Fool me once: shame on you. Fool me twice: shame on me.

A year and a half later....nothing has changed with this opinion of mine. Here is one reason why: http://www.kentucky.com/2011/10/27/1937419/architect-jeanne-gang-no-longer.html

Oh my have the renderings changed since the 1st page. I really like the first design, I think the base looks great.

With the termination of architect Jeanne Gang, the design gets yet another revision:

http://media.kentucky.com/smedia/2012/02/15/19/20/tIUAu.AuSt.79.jpg
http://www.kentucky.com/2012/02/15/2070368/architects-present-new-preliminary.html

http://media.kentucky.com/smedia/2012/03/01/20/31/s7icb.AuSt.79.jpg
http://www.kentucky.com/2012/03/01/2091067/latest-incarnation-of-redesigned.html

http://media.kentucky.com/smedia/2012/03/01/20/28/1pvtNh.AuSt.79.jpg
http://www.kentucky.com/2012/03/01/2091067/latest-incarnation-of-redesigned.html

Kentucky.com (http://www.kentucky.com/2012/03/01/2091067/latest-incarnation-of-redesigned.html)


Latest incarnation of redesigned CentrePointe block gets positive reception
By Beverly Fortune — bfortune@herald-leader.com

Posted: 8:27pm on Mar 1, 2012; Modified: 11:32am on Mar 2, 2012

http://kyfbackupdata.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/centrepointe-aerial-view.jpg

About 200 people turned out for a public meeting Thursday at ArtsPlace to see the fifth and latest design for Lexington's downtown CentrePointe block, and the reaction was mostly positive.

"I'm excited about it. It shows the benefit of opening up the planning process," said businessman Gay Reading, owner of the Greentree Tearoom on West Short Street.

"The exterior of the hotel, if you look at it closely, is almost lacy the way it's broken up," Reading said. "It's a far cry from the Stalinesque look of the original CentrePointe design."

The layout of the block is similar to what Chicago architect Jeanne Gang proposed when, at the urging of Mayor Jim Gray, developer Dudley Webb hired her to come up with a new vision for the block. The block was cleared in 2008 and has been vacant ever since. Financing never came through for the project. Without a clear explanation, Webb let Gang go after she did a master plan for the block and hired EOP Architects of Lexington.

EOP presented its design Thursday and encouraged feedback from those in attendance. The plan calls for a glass-and-limestone hotel tower at the corner of South Upper and Vine streets, a nine-story asymmetrical office building at Limestone and Main, and four low-rise buildings along Main Street for street-level retail and apartments on the floors above.

A glass building with what looks like leaning tree trunks on the exterior was shown for the corner of Vine and Limestone. A 45-foot-long, glass-covered pedestrian walkway, lined with retail shops, cuts through the block to connect Main to Vine street.

The four Main Street buildings, each looking unique, were designed by four architects — Graham Pohl, David Biagi, Dick Levine and EOP.

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Read more here: http://www.kentucky.com/2012/03/01/2091067/latest-incarnation-of-redesigned.html#storylink=cpy

A larger version of the above pic:

http://tomeblen.bloginky.com/files/2012/03/CentrePointe0001.jpg
http://tomeblen.bloginky.com/2012/03/01/looks-great-see-latest-centrepointe-designs/

mmmmmm...... I liked the last revision more. >_>

mmmmmm...... I liked the last revision more. >_>

Yeah, there's no doubt that Jeanne Gang's design was a notch above but she had a falling out with the developers and that was that. At this stage I think people in Lexington just want to see something get off the ground.

Gang's work doesn't slay me.

Yes, I realize full-well that I've blasphemed.