VANCOUVER | BC Place Renovations | Completed [Archive]

mr.x

January 24th, 2008, 02:30 AM

Posted by officedweller:

I think we can say it's official - BC Place is staying put and will be rehabilitated.

http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/20080131/documents/pe3.pdf

In the fall of 2007 the B.C. Pavilion Corporation (PavCo) met with the City Manager and staff
to discuss their desire to rehabilitate the BC Place Stadium; and their need to have some
certainty about the development potential of the stadium site in order to know what level of
financial return they might have to support the rehabilitation. The stadium site is the only
one in NEFC that has never had any development allowances under the NEFC Official
Development Plan. PavCo feels it is critical to achieve the ODP amendment by the end of
2008 in order for the Province to commit to the funding for the BC Place rehabilitation
project.
Staff is supportive of the stadium rehabilitation. It is an important piece of the downtown
tourism and event infrastructure, with 200 event days a year, generating $58.1 million in
economic activity in 2007. It hosts football games and concerts, but equally importantly it is
the Province's largest trade and consumer show facility. These functions are not ones that the
new convention centre can or should accommodate. The stadium’s location is ideal from a
transportation sustainability perspective. It would be costly (and unsustainable) to demolish
and rebuild the facility somewhere else, even if it were possible to find an appropriate site.
Staff therefore supports undertaking a work program to develop and assess an ODP
Amendment for the stadium site, in parallel with work on the NEFC HLR. The work program
and schedule are summarized in the report and is aimed at achieving a Public Hearing and
enactment by October 2008.
In terms of effect on the NEFC HLR, work will continue. While on the one hand there will be
some delay, on the other hand the knowledge that the stadium will remain simplifies the HLR
by reducing the options that need to be considered for that site.
PavCo is proposing to pay for the costs of rehabilitating the stadium through the sale or lease
of the surrounding development sites. They propose that the rehabilitation of the stadium be
considered the sole public benefit. Because the stadium is a publicly-owned and operated
facility which is unique and critical to the downtown and city economy, staff feels that, in
principle, the stadium rehabilitation should be considered the primary public benefit, noting
that a final decision on this matter would be taken by Council at the typical time, when the
ODP amendment is reported out in fall 2008.
In terms of staffing and resources, the HLR has a fixed budget, costs funded by the City. The
budget will not cover the additional work on the stadium ODP. An additional $290,000 will be
required. PavCo has offered to cover half the cost, with a contribution of $145,000. It is
recommended that Council approve funding up to $145,000 for the other half of the needed
resources, with the source of funding to be the 2008 Operating Budget, to be determined as
part of the budget process.

Rhino

January 25th, 2008, 03:47 AM

wow , mr X you got a little pissed there . Usually thats my dept. ;)

mr.x

January 25th, 2008, 04:41 AM

wow , mr X you got a little pissed there . Usually thats my dept. ;)

lol, i wasn't pissed...was kidding around. *sarcasm*

aastra

January 25th, 2008, 05:32 AM

The roof of the Pontiac Silverdome is only partially supported by air pressure now, yes?

Pontiac
http://football.ballparks.com/NFL/DetroitLions/front.jpg

Indianapolis
http://football.ballparks.com/NFL/IndianapolisColts/aerial.jpg

Minneapolis
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/north_america/united_states/minnesota/minneapolis_metrodome1.jpg

Syracuse
http://emc.syr.edu/tour/images/domeAerial.gif

Tokyo
http://www.japanican.com/japaninfo/Images/area/mesh/130401.jpg

Vancouver
http://www.vancouveraerials.com/flt2/22-2199-16a.JPG

deasine

January 25th, 2008, 06:01 AM

lol, i wasn't pissed...was kidding around. *sarcasm*

got me there.

Ewwww... they all have that same crisscross roof pattern... I wish we can have a different one for the new roof... though I doubt that's even possible.

mr.x

January 25th, 2008, 06:15 AM

got me there.

Ewwww... they all have that same crisscross roof pattern... I wish we can have a different one for the new roof... though I doubt that's even possible.

It's possible.....the only problem is that it wouldn't inflate.:nuts::lol::banana::bash::cheers:

Jim856796

January 25th, 2008, 06:17 AM

Nutterbug

January 25th, 2008, 06:27 AM

In retrospect, does anybody regret not getting a baseball team, with the drug scandals, strike and all?

aastra

January 25th, 2008, 08:11 AM

BC Place has never even held a baseball game.

Pretty sure they've played MLB exhibition games in there. Back in the heyday of the Jays.

Yep. Here's a good thread (checkout "Vancouver Baseball Fans Raise the Roof"):
http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=31872

It seems like a lifetime ago, but we were all pretty baseball crazy for a few years there. (not literally ALL of us; just many more of us than nowadays)

mr.x

January 25th, 2008, 08:22 AM

wow...
http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=30934&stc=1&d=1193677301http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=30935&stc=1&d=1193677311

http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=30936&stc=1&d=1193677404

Overground

January 25th, 2008, 10:24 AM

http://www.japanican.com/japaninfo/Images/area/mesh/130401.jpg

lol...had tickets 5 rows back to see Madonna there in 93 but left a couple days before. Gave my buddy the ticket for free which he really enjoyed!

mr.x

January 25th, 2008, 11:01 AM

from a previous plan from Civitas design:
http://www.civitasdesign.com/projects/bcpln.jpg

30 more years for the dome?
Province wants to build towers near BC Place to pay for refurbishment

Frances Bula, Vancouver Sun
Published: Friday, January 25, 2008

BC Place isn't at death's door after all. The Crown corporation that manages Vancouver's stadium, which achieved national fame last year after its inflated roof blew out, is trying to work out a deal with the city to keep it going for 30 more years by acquiring the right to build towers on the land around it.

The money from those developments, likely a mix of residential and office space, would be used to pay the 25-year-old stadium's expensive maintenance and refurbishment costs.

The decision to hang on to the stadium comes after several years of speculation that the provincial government would tear it down, speculation that was fanned by some of the people eyeing the valuable piece of downtown land for development. The speculation reached fever pitch last year when the roof on what's billed as the world's "largest air-supported domed stadium" ripped and then collapsed during a period of heavy snowfall.

Bob Rennie, the condo marketer who has enormous influence on Vancouver development, said then he thought the stadium should be torn down.

On the other hand, said Vancouver city planner Trish French, tourism and hotel officials were anxious to see it stay because of the benefits it brings them. The stadium, which is home to the BC Lions football team, generated $58 million in economic activity last year.

French said one benefit of PavCo's request is that at least it gives the city a clear idea of what is happening in that area.

The staff report notes that PavCo also says it wants the stadium rehabilitation to be the only public benefit the city gets out of giving density.

That's an unusual request in an era in which Vancouver planners routinely negotiate everything from social housing to film theatres to daycares from developers, in return for giving them what is becoming increasingly valuable space in the downtown.

In a staff report going to council next Thursday, planners recommend pushing through a special process by October to revise the plan for the northeast False Creek sector and figure out exactly what the deal should be.

In a previous study, city planners had tentatively suggested that the land available on the site could support 730,000 square feet of development, with three towers of 14, 16 and 30 storeys.

French said city officials don't want the proposed towers to be strictly residential buildings. Instead, the city has high expectations for the site as a job space, she said.

PavCo chairman David Podmore, who was appointed in April, said he has no firm figure for what it will cost to upgrade and maintain the stadium for the next 30 years.

But he did say the roof, which was meant to last a maximum 25 years, will have to be replaced.

The Crown corporation would also like to upgrade the concession stands and public areas, including the restrooms and the plaza outside.

"With the capital improvements, if we can get everything pulled together, I hope we'll have a really good asset," he said.

The potential deal is already provoking sharp differences of opinion among the councillors who have to decide on it.

Non-Partisan Association Coun. Suzanne Anton, part of the majority on council, said she's wholeheartedly in favour of preserving the stadium and allowing building on the spare land around it to finance that.

"There's a huge environmental argument for not tearing it down," said Anton. As well, there's an economic one, since replacing it would cost perhaps $1 billion, she said.

Anton said there's also an esthetic side benefit.

"The stadium is not one of our most beautiful pieces of architecture," Anton noted tactfully of a building that has been frequently reviled and nicknamed by some the "boiled egg in bondage." She said with development around it, "it has the possibility of making it into a more interesting facade."

But opposition Coun. Raymond Louie said he has problems with the deal, although he doesn't object to giving the provincial government some development rights in order to salvage the stadium.

Louie said it's not enough for the city to get nothing more out of the deal than the stadium as a public benefit.

"I disagree with that. They should get something but it's underutilized land. ... It's inappropriate not to get more [than the stadium rehabilitation]."

He also said it's unfair to allow the stadium to jump the queue ahead of three other major landowners who were all supposed to be part of an official-development-plan review.

GM Place, the Plaza of Nations, and Concord could find that they end up getting something less than what they wanted because BC Place has been allowed to jump in ahead of them, he said.

It will take $290,000 to go through the planning process for BC Place.

PavCo has offered to pay half of that. The other half will come from the city.

fbula@png.canwest.com

This is great news. Looks like we're on our way to getting a renovated stadium for sure.

I'm glad Anton is on board, but Louie is getting on my nerves. BC Place is a huge facility, I'd like every dollar available going towards renovating the stadium....rather than god forsaken daycare or even more parks (they're everywhere at False Creek!). And obviously, Louie must have forgotten that BC Place is a vital Olympic venue with a 2-year deadline to do everything - thus, why the stadium is getting a queue jump.

Ravman

January 25th, 2008, 10:53 PM

officedweller

January 25th, 2008, 10:58 PM

Personally, I think the benefits to the City should be sufficient public benefit (although a medium sized conference facility was previously proposed by PavCo for the site an could function as a public amenity).
If he says that the stadium site (owned by the Province) is underutilized, then so is the front lawn of the Art Gallery, the courtyard at Robson Square, Victory Square or even Stanley Park - do those have public beenfit or should every dollar be squeezed out of them?

officedweller

January 25th, 2008, 11:02 PM

Office and condo towers could be flanking BC Place in the future
Jan, 25 2008 - 8:50 AM

VANCOUVER/CKNW(AM980) - We could see office and condo towers flanking BC Place in an effort to finance costly upgrades to the aging dome.
The city and Pavco - the crown corporation that runs the stadium - are set to study development options which could include high-rise towers, all in an effort to extend the life of the stadium for another 30 years.

An older land use plan for the area proposes three towers surrounding BC Place, but Pavco chair David Podmore says that could change.

"I really think reference to that old plan is not appropriate. We're going to go through an exercise with the city and also cooperatively work with the adjoining land owners to come up with a new plan."

He says contractors are already bidding on a replacement roof, but upgrades to the outdoor plaza, washrooms and concessions are also on the wish-list.

mr.x

January 26th, 2008, 03:58 AM

i must say that Louie is not against the idea but rather there can be better things the city can get from these buildings. The entire area is new of a major renewal and i know concord owns most the land next door and with gm place getting a tower as well there must be things the potential developer can do to give back to the city like adding some green space or what not

Did Louie forget about the cultural precinct a block away? (future home of the Art Gallery)

Isn't gaining a rejuvenated stadium and a more lively area enough for the public/city?

There's a fine line between being reasonable and greedy....Louie is being greedy.

phaedrus

January 27th, 2008, 04:29 AM

i have to agree with the fact that it is one of the symbols of vancouver and it would be a shame to see it go.
renovations would be the way to go

mr.x

January 28th, 2008, 12:23 PM

from vancouversun.com

Indoor Olympic flame poses problem for organizers

Miro Cernetig
Vancouver Sun

Monday, January 28, 2008

Lausanne, we may have a problem.

We all know the global epicentre for the Winter Olympics in 2010 is going to be BC Place, our mushroom in bondage.

All the medal ceremonies and flag raisings will unfold inside our domed stadium. The world's TV cameras will be beaming images of those gold, silver and bronze medals glinting under the Olympic flame, safely out of the winter rains.

But here's the dilemma the International Olympic Committee brain trust, based in Lausanne, Switzerland, is now facing. Exactly how do you fire up the Olympics' perpetual flame -- the main cauldron cannot be extinguished for 17 days -- inside a covered stadium?

If Mr. Wizard was giving you an analogous science experiment to try at home, he might say it's a bit like sparking up a very big candle inside your family's tent. It wouldn't seem much at first, but if you do it for 17 days non-stop, better bring lots of antiperspirant -- and a gas mask. It's going to get hot and smelly in there.

This gives rise to a dilemma for the IOC -- which likes to have its iconic flame near the globally televised medal ceremonies -- and the Vancouver Olympic Organizing Committee.

The committee aims to have the most memorable flame-lighting ceremony of any previous Winter Games.

Never before has anyone tried to put the torch inside an enclosed building for the duration of the Games. It's an Olympic first. But it's also going to be an Olympian exercise in air conditioning.

To give Olympic organizers a helping hand, I called one of the top experts in the field, to see if it can be done. His name is Sam Shelton, a mechanical engineer at the Georgia Institute of Technology, who helped design the cauldron in Atlanta, the one that was lit by Muhammad Ali.

"You want to put the flame inside? That's a first," he said, when reached at his office. Then he laughed. Then he said, "You'd have a fair bit of heat and you'd have to deal with the air quality. But I guess it can be done. But it will be expensive."

Then he laughed again.

What would probably be needed, it turns out, would be a mega-ventilation system, one that might be especially designed to sit just below the Olympic flame, to suck out the heat and any contaminants the flame might cause. It wouldn't be unlike one of the negative pressure fans on those fancy new stoves that suck the air downward and out of the house.

Of course, that gives rise to another problem in a covered stadium, where the roof is held up by pumping in massive amounts of air. Any sudden change of pressure and the roof could go saggy, or even collapse. Not something you want when the world is watching.

Still, with the proper engineering -- and enough money -- the quandary can be solved.

But there's another notion being floated, too, it turns out, that would be much more expensive. Why not put a retractable roof on BC Place, maybe in time for 2010?

This idea is now being blue-skied at high levels of the provincial government. It's being kept top secret for obvious reasons: After the retractable-roof debacle at the Montreal Olympics, and the cost overruns at Toronto's Skydome, stadium roofs are a tricky business to sell to Canadian taxpayers

But a retractable roof at BC Place is being considered as part of the plan to revamp the stadium and keep it around for at least another 30 years. The taxpayer wouldn't likely be on the hook, either, since a development plan for BC Place unveiled last week would give developers a chance to build highrise towers around the stadium in exchange for revamping the inside of BC Place and replacing its aging roof.

A retractable roof is an idea that sits well with Olympic officials, now worried about the torch. It would solve all the engineering problems associated with putting the Olympic flame inside for the duration of the Games. An open roof could also make for a better show, opening up more possibilities for pyrotechnics and fireworks exploding out of BC Place. As well, it guarantees the stadium would be cool enough during the Games so that the world wouldn't see Vancouverites watching the Olympics opening ceremonies in their T-shirts, as if they were holding a Summer Olympics.

A retractable roof for BC Place would be a pretty good legacy for Vancouverites, too.

Permanently enclosed stadiums are pretty well passe, a failed experiment from another age. Transforming BC Place into a modern, retractable-roof stadium would add utility and value to this public asset -- and avoid the tens of millions of dollars it would cost to tear it down. Opening up the stadium to the possibility of sunshine also means a chance at hosting a baseball franchise and perhaps even offering a new home for professional soccer.

But there's another problem here: Time.

The clock is ticking down fast on the arrival of the Games, which begin here Feb. 12, 2010.

Can a retractable roof be built on such a tight timeline?

Or is this a good idea that came too late and will need to be delayed until after the Olympic cauldron is extinguished and moves on?

Nothing, after all, would be worse for Vancouver, and Canada, than demonstrating to the world we're a nation that can't finish a roof on time.

mcernetig@png.canwest.com

mr.x

January 28th, 2008, 12:31 PM

What Are They Waiting For, Start Construction Now! 24/7!

This is amazing, i'd never thought they would be doing this....but i know that i shouldn't keep my hopes up. I guess this is what they meant by "starting construction in February 2008 without all the designs finished", according to the previously leaked info i posted in the other topic. I assume they meant the roof? Things like concourse, seating, and luxury box renovations can go ahead first without the roof plan done.

But can they do this in 2 years, 2 weeks, and 4 days? The clock is ticking....this is turning into Athens 2004.

officedweller

January 28th, 2008, 10:33 PM

Another problem would be structural support - the top rim of BC Place stadium is cantilevered out and I doubt it would be able to hold a steel structural roof. They would have to build a separate structure over the stadium like Safeco Field in Seattle.
In addition - drainage could be a problem as the floor and stands of the stadium were not designed to allow storm drainage.

Ravman

January 28th, 2008, 10:36 PM

mr.x

January 28th, 2008, 10:44 PM

when you have gordo running the show all you get is empty promises.. everyone knew that bc place is enclosed in that unusual air pressure and they are revealing the problem now? we knew that there needs to be an olympic flame? seems like the liberals dont know what they are doing as usual. now watch, the liberals are going to get on of their supporters to "fix" the problem at a high cost to the public.... they are creating a disaster for the next govt if they dont get elected

I doubt they are revealing it just now, they've probably had this working behind the public eye for at least a few months now. Certainly, the roof deflation in December 2006 caught their attention.

With regards to how we would pay for these improvements, don't forget that this won't be taxpayers money. There is land on the stadium site that is unused and will be sold to developers for condos and office towers.....and this land is worth hundreds of millions. They could basically go on a spending spree on the stadium, on whatever they have from land sales.

EastVanMark

January 29th, 2008, 09:05 AM

[QUOTE=aastra;17946458]The roof of the Pontiac Silverdome is only partially supported by air pressure now, yes? [QUOTE]

No, its still air suported. Its just that steel girders were added to the framework to give the roof added support to prevent the disaster they experienced in 1985. (pretty much the entire roof came off the structure). Their roof was only a single skin whereas BC Place has two layers.

EastVanMark

January 29th, 2008, 09:20 AM

This is not related to the issue, but I heard on Wikipedia that the BC Place Stadium was built to attract a Major League Baseball team in the 80s and 90s. BC Place has never even held a baseball game. It is a rectangular football stadium. If it had served as a baseball venue, it would be the Vancouver version of the Metrodome.

BC Place has hosted several preseason baseball games. In the early days, the dome hosted annual exhibition series which were to be a test of the level of fan support in the city.(which overall was pretty good). In the mid 90's, the Seattle Mariners kicked around the idea of playing 20-40 regular season games up here in efforts to boost revenues to help keep the Mariners in Seattle. (and playing in the dreadful Kingdome). Instead, they built Safeco Field and Vancouver was left on the outside looking in.

Ravman

January 29th, 2008, 10:18 AM

mr.x

January 29th, 2008, 11:07 AM

We must not get ahead of ourselves here... It will be very interesting to see who gets the property and what the selling price would be before we jump to any conclusions... but lets just say there are lot of improvements that can be done to make it last for 30 years.

Given how much CBC Vancouver made by selling its parking lot for developers to build two condo towers, I think we're looking at at least $100 million - probably a lot more.

officedweller

January 29th, 2008, 11:41 PM

Hopefully they'd put some into an ongoing operating fund rather than blowing it all on the renovations.

Plumber73

January 30th, 2008, 03:40 AM

Nutterbug

January 30th, 2008, 03:43 AM

They could build a cauldron atop Terry Fox Plaza.

mr.x

January 30th, 2008, 04:14 AM

Who says the flame has to be inside the stadium? Have it outside, save the money and risk. Given there's not very much time, it would be silly to rush a design through just for the sake of having a flame indoors. Pretty strange they're thinking about this now.

The thing is, it's IOC policy that the Olympic Stadium crowd be able to see the cauldron lit "live" (not in front of a videoscreen). And I'm sure the IOC is pressing on that matter. They've given Vancouver 2010 quite a bit of leeway already.

mr.x

January 30th, 2008, 04:30 AM

Retractable roof for the Dome?

B.C. PLACE
By BOB MACKIN, 24 HOURS | January 29, 2008

B.C. Place Stadium's next roof could be retractable.

"We're looking at all options, including air-supported, non air-supported," said David Podmore, chairman of B.C. Pavilion Corp. "We are certainly looking at options that would allow for opening."

Podmore is compiling a renovation budget wish-list for the provincial government. A new roof could be installed before the 2010 Winter Olympics. If it is retractable, it won't be rigid like Seattle's Safeco Field or Toronto's Rogers Centre.

"Any options we're looking at we anticipate will be fabric roofs," he said.

The 25th anniversary of B.C. Place's opening is June 19.

Plumber73

January 30th, 2008, 05:11 AM

The thing is, it's IOC policy that the Olympic Stadium crowd be able to see the cauldron lit "live" (not in front of a videoscreen). And I'm sure the IOC is pressing on that matter. They've given Vancouver 2010 quite a bit of leeway already.Really eh? Damn IOC.

mr.x

January 30th, 2008, 05:18 AM

Really eh? Damn IOC.

Damn IOC? They gave VANOC an extra $160 million in "The Olympic Program" sponsorship revenues, let VANOC save $25 million on NHL-ice surfaces.....what else do you want from them? Replace the Olympic flag with the Canadian flag?

koolio

January 30th, 2008, 06:38 AM

Damn IOC? They gave VANOC an extra $160 million in "The Olympic Program" sponsorship revenues, let VANOC save $25 million on NHL-ice surfaces.....what else do you want from them? Replace the Olympic flag with the Canadian flag?

LOL, nicely put.

And I always figured that the damned air-supported bubble will prove to be a problem. Hopefully they build a retractable roof before 2010. It should be doable, seeing how any paper work involving the Olympics would no doubt be fast-tracked.

By the way, are there any examples of fabric-based retractable roof that is mentioned in the article?

mr.x

January 30th, 2008, 06:42 AM

LOL, nicely put.

And I always figured that the damned air-supported bubble will prove to be a problem. Hopefully they build a retractable roof before 2010. It should be doable, seeing how any paper work involving the Olympics would no doubt be fast-tracked.

By the way, are there any examples of fabric-based retractable roof that is mentioned in the article?

No, but the recently built Cardinals Stadium (which will be hosting Superbowl this weekend) has a teflon fabric retractable roof:
http://www.lectrosonics.com/PressReleases/phoenix/cardinal_stadium.jpg

http://dailyheadlines.uark.edu/images/Eisenman_stadium.jpg

That's all I can think of with regards to retractable fabric roofs.

Overground

January 30th, 2008, 07:46 AM

I saw a show on that stadium and it looked amazing. The turf pitch rolls in and out of the stadium too like the one in Sapporo. The retractable translucent fabric roof is made by a company called Birdair. They have also done something similar to Houston's Reliant Stadium and did The O2 in London, and many others. Check it out - http://www.birdair.com/projectGallery/browse.aspx?id=stadiums

Reliant Stadium
http://p.vtourist.com/1284110-Travel_Picture-Reliant_Stadium_Houston_Texas.jpg

EastVanMark

January 31st, 2008, 01:55 AM

koolio

January 31st, 2008, 05:19 AM

But in all of those cases, there is extensive truss work that supports their respective roofs. BC Place is not designed for this and the logistics and cost of adding them would be extremely complicated and cost an enormous sum. (probably as much as if not MORE than half the cost of building a new stadium from scratch). Keep in mind that for all of these stadiums, the cost of the roof is almost ALWAYS the most expensive part of the whole project.

Yeah. I honestly have no clue what the organizers are planning up. There really is no cheap solution for this, and I doubt the private investors would be willing to spend $600 million or something of that sort.

mr.x

January 31st, 2008, 05:25 AM

Yeah. I honestly have no clue what the organizers are planning up. There really is no cheap solution for this, and I doubt the private investors would be willing to spend $600 million or something of that sort.

But surely, the provincial government would (maybe not $600 million, but certainly hundreds of millions). The gov't has been on a spending spree high lately.

Ravman

January 31st, 2008, 07:33 AM

lets just wait and see what they choose... it would be interesting and cool to have a retractable roof....but the cost is something that we ought to keep our eye on as well...

mr.x

February 1st, 2008, 06:17 AM

From David Podmore on Global BC's News Hour:

"We're looking at all the concession and food services in the building, the washrooms and the public plazas, the concourses and the circulation areas...you know, to see what we can do to bring them to up today standard."

When asked about a retractable roof:

"Well, that would be my hope, but there is a lot of work to be done to determine if that is actually feasible."

The city councillors at yesterday's public meeting were all very unanimous in supporting a rehabitated stadium. As well, Global BC reports that the renovations would cost at least $100 million. That's quite a bit more than what Torino and Salt Lake spent on their stadium renovations.

Vanman

February 1st, 2008, 06:31 AM

I don't understand why they didn't come up with these plans like friggin two years ago. The government knew that BC Place was a shithole before we were awarded the olympics so why only now at the very last moment are they considering extensive renovations/ the possibility of a retractable roof?

Ravman

February 1st, 2008, 06:35 AM

true that and besides the state of the concession stands ( trust me i know) are horrible... they are in desperate major need of a overhaul to ensure no one gets sick...

mr.x

February 1st, 2008, 12:16 PM

Revamp plan for BC Place gets fast track

Kelly Sinoski, Vancouver Sun
Published: Friday, February 01, 2008

VANCOUVER - The City of Vancouver will fast-track a redevelopment plan for the lands around BC Place Stadium to ensure the 25-year-old dome is renovated in time for the 2010 Olympic Games.

Councillors agreed unanimously tonight to a proposal by BC Pavilion Corp. to have staff review the official development plan for the 6.56-hectare site by October.

PavCo had asked the city to amend the development plan for the area, which is part of the False Creek North Official Development Plan, because it wants to sell some of the vacant land for commercial and residential towers and put the money toward refurbishing the dome.

The company will contribute 50 per cent of the $290,000 study, which is expected to go to a public hearing in October when the report is finished.

Councillors voted to support the proposal, maintaining that BC Place is a huge draw for visitors and a boon to tourism and the economy. The stadium generates about 200 event days a year, resulting in $58.1 million in economic activity in 2007.

BC Place is hosting the opening and closing ceremonies for the Olympic Games.

Coun. Suzanne Anton said it is good news the stadium will be refurbished and kept on the site.

"I know for the last few years now we all feared that the stadium would come tumbling down but it's standing firm now," she said. "It's very good for Vancouver that the stadium is back on solid ground."

However, the proposal to speed up the stadium development plan, without the inclusion of other areas of False Creek north, has frustrated some residents who say they are still waiting for amenities such as a park to materialize.

"This plan has been hatched in secret behind closed doors," said Patsy McMillan, of the Citygate Inter-town Community Group and False Creek Residents' Association.

Coun. Raymond Louie suggested amending the proposal to include the entire area but the motion was rejected after staff said it didn't have the workers or the time to complete the entire project by October.

The fact that other players, such as the Plaza of Nations, Tri-Power Developments and Concord Pacific support the proposal also swayed the majority of council to reject the amendment.

The development plan, which was started last May, was intended to be finished within 13 months but was delayed by the city's inability to recruit staff for the project and the three-month city strike.

The decision to hang on to the stadium comes after several years of speculation that the provincial government would tear it down, speculation fanned by some of the people eyeing the valuable piece of downtown land for development.

The speculation reached fever pitch last year when the roof on what's billed as the world's "largest air-supported domed stadium" ripped and then collapsed during a period of heavy snowfall.

koolio

February 2nd, 2008, 01:48 AM

Report by October? This doesn't leave much time to get anything significant done.

Ravman

February 2nd, 2008, 02:05 AM

isnt it great to see companies like concord pacific, tri-power et al use their force to get their way...

Plumber73

February 2nd, 2008, 03:02 AM

I'd be really shocked if they actually go ahead and do a major alteration of the roof at this stage. A replacement doesn't sound as big a deal. I'm hoping for the best of course.

Damn IOC? They gave VANOC an extra $160 million in "The Olympic Program" sponsorship revenues, let VANOC save $25 million on NHL-ice surfaces.....what else do you want from them? Replace the Olympic flag with the Canadian flag?That was meant to be tongue in cheek. :tongue2:

mr.x

February 2nd, 2008, 04:15 AM

Global has just said it is possible the Olympic cauldron would be lit inside the stadium, be raised up through an air lock chamber in the roof, and then it will be seen outside of the stadium.

Overground

February 2nd, 2008, 05:12 AM

^lol...okay...I'm stumped. An air lock thing going thru the teflon? Perhaps this is also where they would like to release the pigeons as well!:lol:

mr.x

February 2nd, 2008, 05:48 AM

^lol...okay...I'm stumped. An air lock thing going thru the teflon? Perhaps this is also where they would like to release the pigeons as well!:lol:

i would laugh so hard if the air lock chamber puts out the Olympic flame....it would be like one of those candle snubbers.:lol::lol::lol::nuts:

mr.x

March 1st, 2008, 03:08 AM

Major renovation plan in the works

B.C. PLACE
By BOB MACKIN, 24 HOURS
FEBRUARY 29, 2008

B.C. Place Stadium is getting a new roof and maybe a new name.

The B.C. Pavilion Corporation's 2008-09 to 2010-11 service plan, published yesterday, said "B.C. Place will undertake a major renovation plan, including a roof replacement, to keep it viable for at least the next 20 years."

It also said naming rights may be put up for sale. However, International Olympic Committee rules prohibit Games-time advertising, including corporate venue names.

Chairman David Podmore is working on a plan to refurbish the 25-year-old taxpayer-owned stadium. The service plan said work is expected to begin during the 2008-09 fiscal year. It also forecasts $41.65 million for capital projects through 2010-11.

PavCo, which also operates the Vancouver Convention and Exhibition Centre, is facing a labour crunch. Most staffers average 44 years old and have been with the company for 15 years. The mandatory age 65 retirement policy has been scrapped.

"Replacement of their skill sets is difficult in the current market." B.C. Place has a particularly high turnover because of event schedule fluctuations.

Neither Podmore nor PavCo CEO Warren Buckley could be reached for comment

DKaz

March 1st, 2008, 09:24 AM

Yay new roof! Hopefully it's retractable. What are the preferences here, make it look as close to the original as possible or totally scrap the puffy marshmallow look for something more aesthetically pleasing?

koolio

March 1st, 2008, 08:06 PM

Hopefully work starts sometime during the summer. There really isn't that much time till the Olympics. I wonder if the BC Lions will have to relocate for the time being due to the renovation.

Neda Say

March 1st, 2008, 10:21 PM

Relocate! Ok but where?! I don't see any other suitable facility in the lower mainland able to shelter the Lions. Vancouver is years behind schedule with the waterfront (dead or alive, I don't know) stadium. Swangard or Thunderbird stadiums are way to small and their accessibility to big crowds might pause problems. Lighting, safety comfort... also1 I'm all about upgrading BC Place for the olympics but getting it all "pimped up" with a retractable roof before late 09 is very optimistic, especially if the Lions keep playing there!

gameseven07

March 2nd, 2008, 12:28 AM

Since when do you need concrete piling for a simple replacement of the current roof? Simply, you wouldn't.

And anyways, do they not release doves during the Ceremony? You need an opening in the roof to allow the doves to fly out otherwise you'll have the doves circling the interior of the Stadium for the balance of the ceremony trying to find an opening to fly out when they can't, which would look absolutely ridiculous in front of a worldwide TV audience of 3 billion...

This article reinforces the concept of a structure around the Stadium to support a Retractable Roof:

http://www.theedgedaily.com/cms/content.jsp?id=com.tms.cms.article.Article_5f29b516-cb73c03a-1d7b2220-e3fdfed5

jlousa

March 2nd, 2008, 01:06 AM

There will not be a retractable roof on BC place, they also no longer release doves at the opening ceremonies.

mr.x

March 2nd, 2008, 04:55 AM

gameseven07

March 3rd, 2008, 03:15 AM

How were you able to get that 24 Hrs online article dated Feb 29 yet there was nothing in the magazine version about the Stadium?

Are there articles they post online that don't go into the mag version?

jlousa

March 3rd, 2008, 06:03 AM

That isn't from Feb 29ths issue, Mr X took it from a SSP post I made, i had left the date off, why he added one I'm not sure you'll have to ask him. It's from the Feb 20 issue.

mr.x

March 6th, 2008, 10:46 AM

originally posted by raggedy13:

New roof by 2010
Crown corporation that runs BC Place studying options

Jeff Lee, Vancouver Sun
Published: Wednesday, March 05, 2008

There will be a new roof on BC Place in time for the 2010 Winter Olympic Games.

But whether it will be the familiar air-supported roof that has graced Vancouver's skyline for 25 years, or a more modern open-centre roof has not yet been decided.

David Podmore, the chairman of PavCo, which owns BC Place, confirmed Wednesday the Crown corporation plans to replace the roof in the next 700 days, in time for the opening ceremonies of the Olympics.

He said the corporation is looking at a number of options: an identical inflated teflon dome, a rigid covering, a fixed fabric roof, a retractable fabric roof, or one with an open centre.

Podmore would not say how much the new roof would cost, but pledged it will be recovered through the development of condominium towers on property Pavco owns at the corners of the stadium.

That project [to redevelop surrounding stadium lands], which has not yet received city council approval, is still in the concept stage and would not start until after the Games, he said.

A report assessing the options for the roof is nearly complete and will be sent to the provincial cabinet within a month, he said.

If he had his choice, Podmore said, he'd swap the air-supported dome for a more efficient retractable open-centre roof that would free Pavco of crippling energy bills that exceed $1.4 million a year.

"I think it is pretty obvious that if we could get rid of the air-supported feature, that would be great. It does impose constraints on the building in terms of what you can do," he said.

"I think if we are able to get there, we would more than likely cover the seating and hopefully have an opening over the centre field."

Podmore said Pavco's choices will be limited to options that can be completed in time for the Games.

"Obviously, we wouldn't undertake it if we weren't confident it could be done."

He also said only proven technology will be chosen.

"There are different systems around the world. I will tell you that we are looking at proven technology," he said. "We don't really want to invent something."

Because BC Place was built to support an inflatable roof, changing the roof system would also require structural changes and upgrades, including "beefing up" support structures, he said.

"The technical answer is that this building is designed to work in compression, so that everything is working to pull that building in," Podmore explained.

"If you introduce a system that places a load on that compression ring, the tendency is that is pushing the building out."

An engineering assessment of the building is being done. Pavco has also hired Dominion Construction as a construction manager.

Pavco officials began exploring options for a new roof last summer, following the accidental deflation of the dome in January 2007 when an end panel blew out. The accident sharpened debate about whether the stadium should be torn down or retained.

Ultimately, the government decided the province needs a stadium the size of BC Place and that it made no economic sense to take it down.

"I think the accident, if it did anything, was to make a lot of people think about this building," Podmore said. "My own impression is that people sort of ignored the building and that it brought them to think about it and realize it's a pretty valuable building."

Pavco asked for tenders for replacing the current roof from the three companies in the world that build air-supported structures - Bird Air, Fabri-tec and Hi-Tec. But it also decided to look at whether a more modern form of roof could be built.

"We have those bids and we are currently evaluating them. We are also looking at other options," Podmore said. "We are trying to assess the full range of options for the building, what the cost of those might be and the timetable for construction."

Warren Buckley, the CEO of Pavco, said the corporation looked at a number of stadiums around the world, including the Pusan Dome in Korea, the new Durban soccer arena and the Commerce Bank stadium in Frankfurt, as well as Wimbledon, which is being covered with a retractable roof.

All of those use technology that didn't exist when BC Place was built in 1983.

"I think the reality is that there are other treatments and opportunities for us now that didn't exist before that are really quite exciting," he said.

By converting to a retractable roof, Pavco would eliminate a major drain on its finances. Podmore said the cost of keeping the roof inflated is roughly the same as the corporation's $1.4 million annual deficit, which is covered by provincial taxpayers.

Podmore said the decision to replace the roof isn't being driven by the Olympics, but rather by the fact the teflon dome is at the end of its functional lifespan.

"It served us really well and it shouldn't be a surprise to anybody that it needs to be replaced. It's no different than your own home," he said. "There is a maximum of about four years before we have to replace it. So what we are endeavouring to do is to replace it before the Games."

© Vancouver Sun

mr.x

March 6th, 2008, 11:47 AM

That said, this is an incredible development!

Warren Buckley, the CEO of Pavco, said the corporation looked at a number of stadiums around the world, including the (1) Pusan Dome in Korea, the new (2) Durban soccer arena and the (3) Commerce Bank stadium in Frankfurt, as well as (4) Wimbledon, which is being covered with a retractable roof.

1) Pusan Dome, Korea (or rather more commonly known as Busan Stadium). It is obviously a fabric roof.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1890000/images/_1892766_busan3002.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1016/681057746_6b826697cc.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/49/147530466_8ce2c79643.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/45/147530433_3a32130e5e.jpg

2) Durban Stadium - South Africa World Cup Stadium in 2010. It appears that the roof is also fabric.
http://satwentyten.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/durbanstadiumview3.jpg

http://www.2010safwc.com/King%20Senzangakhona%20Stadium%20Durban,%20South%20Africa.jpg

http://www.stantgsm.com/extra/Pics/cam18_nacht_02.jpg

3) Frankfurt Stadium - retractable fabric roof
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/25/37745529_43a37e2a71.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/56/172214506_6683c9a627_o.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/63/172213353_97ef7f6a33.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/49/118172750_893b024d2b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/33/47964162_f9fad38a8f.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/28/61090310_98e8687132.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/162/405090500_56036e148a.jpg

4) Wimbledon - rigid retractable roof

http://blogs.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ianwylie/centreroof2300-thumb.jpg

http://blogs.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ianwylie/Roof%20Closing%202%20outside%20view300-thumb.jpg

http://www.construct2012.co.uk/jpeg/290/6008054.jpeg

I'm personally really digging something like the first three options: Busan, Durban, and Frankfurt.....and especially Frankfurt if we decide to go with the retractable roof route. Not so much of a fan of Wimbledon, not to mention it would be costly to build....and we wouldn't be able to build it in time for 2010 considering it's a rigid steel structure.

You'd think they would hurry up and make a decision already....David Atkins needs to know what he is working with.

Overground

March 6th, 2008, 07:50 PM

Wow...this is fantastic news to wake up to!! I'm gobsmacked as I had convinced myself they would just keep an inflated dome. The energy cost bit is a key selling point for replacing it with something else.

gameseven07

March 6th, 2008, 10:15 PM

Will events such as BC Lion football games and trade shows/conventions still be able to go on inside BC Place while a Roof is constructed above?

Or are we dealing with a project of such magnitude that the floor area would have to be worked on also?

nova9

March 7th, 2008, 03:41 AM

there's already a thread for this topic.

deasine

March 7th, 2008, 04:44 AM

FH7_zA-T7-U

Why isn't it working ARGH but view the link

Edit: There we go

This work (above) is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 2.5 Canada License
http://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-sa/2.5/ca/80x15.png

mr.x

March 7th, 2008, 05:27 AM

Retractable BC Place roof could cost $150 million

Jeff Lee, Vancouver Sun
Published: Thursday, March 06, 2008

Replacing the inflated roof at BC Place with a retractable one would cost $150 million or more and be one of the most ambitious retrofits of an air-supported stadium roof, according to the primary supplier of such systems in North America.

Peter Fervoy, the business development manager for Minneapolis-based Uni-Systems, said his company has already been asked by Birdair, the manufacturer of BC Place's signature Teflon-coated roof, to supply detailed information about how a retractable roof could be installed on the iconic Vancouver building.

And a Birdair official confirmed Thursday that PavCo, the Crown corporation that owns the world's largest air-supported stadium, is also considering new "green building" technologies including photo-voltaic solar panels with which to generate electricity.

Fervoy didn't know how much it would cost to replace BC Place's 500,000-square-foot soft-top roof with a rigid structure, but said his company has installed many of the fabric and retractable roofs on new football stadiums built in the U.S. On average, those roofs cost about $150 million each.

Even if BC Place opts to install a fixed fabric roof without a retractable section, the cost would likely start at around $100 million, he said.

"That would be a good starting point," Fervoy said, adding that changing the roof system on an existing stadium would be more complicated than on one being built new.

On Wednesday David Podmore, the chairman of PavCo, confirmed the corporation is exploring replacing the 26-year-old dome with a number of options, including a fabric structure that could include retractable panels. Regardless of whether a new roof system is used or the existing fabric is replaced, PavCo still intends to finish it in time for the 2010 Winter Olympics.

He would not discuss the cost of a new or replacement roof, saying a feasibility report has not been completed.

Tourism Minister Stan Hagen said Thursday he expects PavCo to submit the report to cabinet within a month. He confirmed the province intends to replace the roof before the Olympics.

Fervoy said PavCo requires the new roof to be finished by November 2009, when the building would be turned over to the Vancouver Organizing Committee. Meeting such a tight schedule is possible but difficult, he said, especially since companies doing such work are extremely busy right now.

"It would require an extremely aggressive schedule to complete," he said. The average time it takes to design and install such roofs is about 36 months, although Uni-Systems has done it in as little as eight months.

"We get excited anytime we hear the words "retractable roof," period," he said.

Bill Barden, Birdair's director of architectural development, said there has never been a total replacement of an air-supported roof system the size of BC Place.

In 1999, Birdair replaced the roof of Syracuse University's Carrier stadium, which is roughly two-thirds the size of BC Place.

Birdair has installed fabric roofs on more than 65 stadiums, including a sister dome to Vancouver's, the RCA Dome in Indianapolis, Ind.

That building will be demolished later this year when construction is complete on a new stadium using a retractable Uni-System roof.

Barden said PavCo asked Birdair for a quote on replacing the existing system. It wanted information on new technologies, including solar panels and rain and wastewater recovery systems. He did not want to disclose the bid price Birdair submitted, noting that two other competitors, Hightex Group and Fabritec Structures, had also submitted bids.

London-based Hightex installed the fabric on the Pusan Stadium, Berlin Stadium and a soccer stadium in South Africa, three projects PavCo said it looked at when considering a replacement system.

California-based Fabritec deals mostly with smaller fabric applications.

Warren Buckley, the CEO of PavCo, also clarified Thursday that although PavCo is considering a new fabric roof over seating with an open centre, it would still require a retractable covering because the stadium is used heavily for trade shows. A permanently open stadium roof such as the one in Munich, Germany would not work.

"A constant, permanent hole in the middle of the roof would not be considered," Buckley said.

"We've looked at it, but when you consider the number of trade shows we have, it would just kill our business. And the last time I looked, it's not sunny every time the B.C. Lions play."

Well, that basically throws out the Durban and Busan options.

mr.x

March 7th, 2008, 05:48 AM

CTV News Report, March 06

5dPfJOeCHGg

mr.x

March 7th, 2008, 11:13 AM

Three firms vie to replace B.C. Place roof

By BOB MACKIN, 24 HOURS
March 07, 2008

Will B.C. Place Stadium become Canada's second "Big Owe?"

The 25-year-old dome - opened seven years after Montreal's Olympic Stadium - is getting a new roof before the 2010 Winter Olympics.

"You're going to pay more because it's a rush job and you have more limited options as to what you would put on the roof because of the Olympics," predicts NDP critic Norm Macdonald.

24 hours reported on Feb. 20 that taxpayer-owned B.C. Pavilion Corporation would replace the air-supported fabric roof and spend $41.65 million on capital improvements through 2010-11. Chairman David Podmore said on Jan. 31 that he prefers a retractable roof. He wouldn't comment Tuesday on funds he may seek from cabinet, but did say VANOC won't be paying for the project. Podmore wants Vancouver city council to amend density regulations so that excess land outside the stadium can be sold to developers.

The $126-million stadium opened June 19, 1983 on time and on budget. Its first event was 25 years ago this Sunday when Queen Elizabeth II invited the world to Expo 86. By contrast, Montreal's French-designed Olympic Stadium wasn't finished until 11 years after the 1976 Games. By 2006, the building cost $1.6 billion.

Podmore said Koch Hightex of Germany, BirdAir of Amherst, N.Y. and FabriTec Structures of Costa Mesa, Calif., are vying to replace the roof. Vancouver's Dominion-Fairmile is working on pre-engineering. He denied media reports from Malaysia that CEPCO of Kuala Lumpur would supply concrete poles to reinforce the structure.

Major B.C. Place renovations were never contemplated in Vancouver's Olympic bid. In 2006, the government said the roof would be worthy for the Games and beyond. :haha: :yuck: :haha: :yuck: It ripped and collapsed on Jan. 5, 2007 under the weight of snow and ice because the roof-heating system was not used.

Dome to get a roof overhaul
In time for the 2010 Winter Games

Marc Weber, The Province
Published: Friday, March 07, 2008

B.C. Lions president and CEO Bob Ackles said Thursday that it's too early to tell what kind of short-term impact the replacement of the B.C. Place Stadium roof might have on his club, but the announcement is welcomed.

"Any improvements they make are going to have a positive effect on the B.C. Lions," he said. "There will likely be some inconveniences, but it's going to be a really positive thing."

Crown corporation PavCo, which operates B.C. Place, has confirmed that a new roof will be among several upgrades to the 25-year-old, 60,000-seat stadium, and that it will be in place for the 2010 Winter Olympics.

One option is to replace the fabric and maintain the current pressurized system, but PavCo is also considering bids for a retractable roof, a ridged closed roof and one that would cover the stands but leave the field uncovered.

Ackles said he expects to know more about the potential impact of construction on the Lions' schedule in the next couple of months.

"That's something I couldn't even speculate on right now," he said.

"But if they're going to have a new roof by the Olympics, then they'll probably have some pretty solid news in six to eight weeks."

mweber@png.canwest.com

© The Vancouver Province 2008

Neda Say

March 7th, 2008, 09:04 PM

Getting natural light in the stadium would be nice! Any improvement made would be nice but the deadline is so tight!

gameseven07

March 7th, 2008, 09:14 PM

The news said the roof will be a Fixed Price project. One of the bidders Koch Hightex did the Millenium Dome in London.

This is from Dominion's site:

Design/Build or "Turnkey" is a system of contracting where there is a single source of responsibility for both design and construction.

The advantages of design build over other forms of contracting include:
Early confirmation of price - before committing to the expense of a complete design or purchasing property, owners can be provided with a guaranteed maximum price for their project.

Single source of responsibility - nothing falls between the cracks between the design and construction teams; enables owners to focus on their own business. Consultative, collaborative approach
to building

Schedule enhancement - design build format enables overlap of design, approvals and construction to save both time and money. Facilitates ordering long lead time items

Trade and supplier input to the design ensures budget compliance and optimizes the selection and detailing of systems, finishes and massing

Design build now represents more than 30% of all non-residential construction
Built into every Dominion project from the beginning, our integration of services means that the experience and resources to take your project from site identification through to completion is available from a single source.

Ravman

March 7th, 2008, 11:01 PM

hmm the further truth of the incompetence of the liberals... first they said that there wont be a new roof and now they say there will be.... well as an employee of the stadium... i wonder if they could actually complete it... i highly doubt it but hmmm a good idea

gameseven07

March 8th, 2008, 01:46 AM

Didn't David Podmore say a Retractable could be done within a year? I'll take him at his word.

What rumours are you hearing around the Stadium?

Ravman

March 8th, 2008, 01:49 AM

well considering the length of time it takes to replace a lightbulb of example, we cautiously optimistic but not willing to bet a penny!

gameseven07

March 8th, 2008, 03:14 AM

well, do these 3 existing bids not contain a guarantee clause saying the project can be completed on time?

mr.x

March 9th, 2008, 12:20 AM

The entire stadium renovation will possibly cost $250-MILLION.

Oops, Liberals discover BC Place needs pricey Olympic refit after all

Vaughn Palmer, Vancouver Sun
Published: Saturday, March 08, 2008

It was May 2006, a committee room in the legislature buildings, and the Opposition was raising prophetic concerns about BC Place.

Was the aging stadium ready for Olympic opening and closing ceremonies? Would taxpayers have to foot the bill for a major refit?

Not to worry, the B.C. Liberals insisted. Though completed back in 1983, the stadium was good for another two decades.

"It is not anticipated that BC Place will need a significant capital infusion," minister-for-the-Olympics Colin Hansen said.

The government had budgeted a mere $2.5 million for the touch-up. The full amount to be covered out of the existing budget for the 2010 Winter Games.

The New Democrats weren't persuaded. Guy Gentner, MLA for Delta North, had been perusing the BC Place service plan and offered his reading of the state of the stadium.

"BC Place stadium is close to its end," he declared, "The roof is ready to fall down."

Yep. That's exactly what Gentner said. May 1, 2006.

The Liberals scoffed. The roof ready to fall down? Where did Opposition members get these notions?

"The member is talking about guaranteed life," replied Olga Ilich, then the cabinet minister for BC Place. "The guaranteed life was 25 years, but that doesn't mean it is going to fall apart in the 25th year."

With proper maintenance, she insisted, "the roof is expected to last another 15 or 20 years."

Gentner again: "So we have assurances from the minister that the roof at BC Place is safe up to and beyond the Olympics?"

Right, Ilich replied. "It should last up to the Olympics and beyond."

Eight months later -- Jan. 5, 2007 -- the roof did fall down. "Human error," they said at the time. But the roof-collapsing tear in the fabric dome exposed BC Place to more than the elements.

A year after a hasty repair job, the roof that was going to last up to 20 years is now said to be in need of replacement in relatively short order.

"There's a maximum of about four years before we have to replace it," government-appointed overseer David Podmore told my colleague Jeff Lee this week.

Moreover, Podmore added, given the age of the roof, "it shouldn't be a surprise to anybody that it needs to be replaced."

Not to Gentner, anyway. But the Liberals ought to be a little red-faced.

Then again, that's not likely when you recall their lack of shame on the convention centre overrun, which is another project Podmore was brought in to rescue.

The no-more-than-four-years estimate on the remaining life-span of the roof poses a dilemma, because the Winter Olympics are scheduled to fall in the middle of that time frame.

"What we are endeavouring to do is to replace it before the Games," Podmore said. But with less than two years to opening day, that would be cutting it fine.

Recall, too, that the overrun on the convention centre expansion was the result of a rush job.

As to the potential cost of this boondog . . . er, project, my colleague Lee has extracted some preliminary estimates.

Figure at least $100 million for a replacement fabric roof, $150 million for one of those nifty retractable jobs.

Not including other costs, like the need to beef up the supporting structure of the stadium if the roof technology changes.

Throw in a state-of-the-art upgrade of the BC Place interior and you've got a tab maybe 100 times larger than the $2.5 million the Liberals were touting two years ago. ($250-MILLION STADIUM RENOVATION)

Needless to say, the government has rethought who should pay. No longer is it to be Vanoc's responsibility, which was (quoting Ilich) "our expectation" back in 2006.

Now the Liberals say the stadium improvements have nothing to do with getting ready the Olympics. (Where do people get these ideas?)

And at this point it would be unfair to stick Vanoc, which has done a better job of getting its costs under control, with the tab for another miscalculation by the provincial government.

The New Democrats baited the Liberals about the looming costs to taxpayers one day this week. But the latest minister in charge of the stadium, Stan Hagen, insisted "this is good news for British Columbia."

No need to mention he's the guy in charge of making feeble excuses for the $400-million overrun on the convention centre job.

Taxpayers need not be concerned about having to cover the cost of refitting BC Place, Hagen insisted.

The project will be financed through the sale and development of public land around the stadium.

Liberal cost accounting: If you sell the silverware to pay for a new roof, that's not a drain on your household finances.

Besides, Hagen assured the legislature, the government will negotiate a "fixed-price contract" for the BC Place renovations.

"Put us down as being a little skeptical," returned NDP House leader Mike Farnworth.

Me, too.

vpalmer@direct.ca

koolio

March 9th, 2008, 02:26 AM

I knew this was going to happen.

EastVanMark

March 9th, 2008, 11:16 PM

$250 million for renovations? What a waste! For double that amount, a new stadium could be built entirely. Like getting a $5000 stereo system for a $400 car.

Ravman

March 9th, 2008, 11:30 PM

i totally agree... the stadium needs a massive overhaul and its not just the roof that needs improvement.... trust me i do work there lol and see the behind the scene things....

mr.x

March 9th, 2008, 11:41 PM

$250 million for renovations? What a waste! For double that amount, a new stadium could be built entirely. Like getting a $5000 stereo system for a $400 car.

I'd rather spend $250-million on renovations rather than building a new facility....BC Place is still a very functionable facility, all it needs is a major re-do like the one proposed to put it back to world-class and state-of-the-art standards.

Don't forget that you'd need to spend $500-million to demolish BC Place first. You can't implode it with all of those buildings and the viaduct next to it, you'll have to tear it down section by section which is a long an tedious process. After that, a new stadium of similar size but of more grandeur would cost well over $500-million.

And we're also trying to do all of this in time for the Olympics.

gameseven07

March 10th, 2008, 03:14 AM

Has anyone yet realized that a Fabric Retractable roof system WON'T HOLD SNOW LOAD?

The CommerzBank Arena in Frankfurt is closed between November and March for this snow risk reason:

http://www.commerzbank-arena.com/ go to FAQ section

The University Stadium in Arizona has no problems cause of their warm climate.

Look at Safeco Field in Seattle and SkyDome in Toronto. Both cities have cool rainy or cold climates and both have roof systems that are solid metal.

Montreal's Olympic Stadium is closed between mid November and March or so for snow cave in risk with their membrane roof that covers the O. One would hope there's not a cave in this November as they're hosting the Grey Cup!

Please show me an example of a Fabric Retractable roof on a Stadium in a city that can get snow.

EastVanMark

March 10th, 2008, 05:39 AM

I'd rather spend $250-million on renovations rather than building a new facility....BC Place is still a very functionable facility, all it needs is a major re-do like the one proposed to put it back to world-class and state-of-the-art standards.

Don't forget that you'd need to spend $500-million to demolish BC Place first. You can't implode it with all of those buildings and the viaduct next to it, you'll have to tear it down section by section which is a long an tedious process. After that, a new stadium of similar size but of more grandeur would cost well over $500-million.

And we're also trying to do all of this in time for the Olympics.

While yes, it is functional, it still is out of date. (See why the Canucks left the Pacific Coliseum; also still a functioning arena). Replacing seats and putting up a new second rate retractable roof does not a state of the art stadium make. It doesn't have enough skyboxes, a proper roof, air conditioning, sound system, concession facilities, and ZERO by way of club seats (something that has become a must for modern stadiums, and cannot be built without a major reconstruct).

As for the demolition costs, the roof can easily be taken apart, and 3/4 of the stands have no structures close to them thereby making an implosion a viable option. The remaining stands could be torn down using the same methods used to tear down Vancouver's Empire Stadium (32,000 seats). The cost to tear that stadium down was $1 million The cost to implode Seattle's Kingdome was about $10 million. (And that had a concrete roof). So even factoring in inflation, the demolition job shouldn't cost more than $20 million. However, thats not the only option. The city of Chicago built a stadium within an older stadium for under $500 million. And the stadium in Vancouver is in much better shape and has more amenities than were enjoyed in Chicago.

Somebody here has posted (correctly) that the stadium in Frankfurt has issues with snow loads. I'll go one step further and give another example of an umbrella style retractable roof that doesn't do well with snow either; our very own Olympic Stadium in Montreal Canada. Much like the talk now, they too rushed to build something quickly before the Olympics and look where they ended up...why in the world would we want to follow in their footsteps?

gameseven07

March 10th, 2008, 05:57 AM

then where do things stand? where do we go from here? are we between a rock and a hard place?

gameseven07

March 10th, 2008, 06:08 AM

EastVanMark

March 10th, 2008, 06:24 AM

What the situation is in Frankfurt is not so much that the Stadium has to be absolutely closed in winter, just that the Retractable roof has to be rolled up for the winter months, making for essentially an open air stadium from November through March.

BC Place is a year round facility in contrast to CommerzBank Stadium which is basically a soccer specific stadium not used that much through winter.

Well if it snows here in Vancouver, just roll up the Retractable roof. If a convention or trade show is going on when it happens to be snowing, well too bad I guess it gets cancelled until the snow changes to rain and the roof can be unfurlled again. If it's a football game when it happens to snow, well the game will still go on. The fans will be under cover.

Regardless, drainage pipes will have to be installed in the floor in the unlikely event snow falls and the Retractable roof has to be rolled up and the floor / field should get wet for a short period of time.

Face it. Snow is very rare in downtown Vancouver. It's rare that a situation would present itself that we would get such an amount of snow in downtown Vancouver (BC Place is on the water at sea level) that the roof would have to be rolled up due to heavy snow conditions.

I say the situation, while not perfect, is doable and workable.

You can't just "cancel shows". Most shows follow specific schedules and the cancellation would cost a lot of people to lose a lot of money. (i.e. promoters who put on the show and sublet spaces to companies showing their prouducts, companies who paid to be there in exchange for a chance to display their products, and finally consumers who paid for tickets to see them) So you could all but kiss goodbye any and all shows between the months of November through March. And what if it starts snowing DURING an event. What, they supposed to say, " hey I know you paid to get into the event but could you go home now cause we need to roll up the roof"? Also, like in Montreal, even though their hasn't been an issue with the roof for years now, they still won't allow it to be open during some of the winter months just out of fear of something happening. That is just but one of the reasons why the province tried to sell the stadium to the city of Montreal for a dollar. (they declined). Constructing something even more fragile here and risking all that is just plain dumb.

koolio

March 10th, 2008, 06:42 AM

EastVanMark

March 10th, 2008, 06:54 AM

I think that its neither possible nor desirable to build a stadium within a stadium vis a vis Soldier Field in Chicago in order to save a few millions. The old Soldier Field was a completely different structure compared to BC Place.

By the way, if this goes through (which it seems it will have to now that the Olympics are imminent) how will the waterfront stadium proposal be affected?

I agree it may not be desirable,( the new soldier field ranks among the lowest NFL stadiums in terms of amenities and comfort), but it is possible. Heck, down the highway they built an arena within an old arena, but again with predictably poor results. ( The Sonics will leave Seattle if a new arena isn't built).

deasine

March 10th, 2008, 06:55 AM

Maybe not the Commerzbank Stadium style of fabric roof because there is no arc whatsoever for the snow to slide off to! I'm pretty sure the Cardinal Stadium roof structure would be able to support a little snow because of the arc. One must take into account that Vancouver doesn't get that much snow too often, and usually when it does, it comes in the form of wet snow (rain).

If the arc was done properly, snow would be able to slide off the stadium roof.
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/8190/bcplace2gg2.jpg
Photoshop of BC Place with retractable roof ~ Source: Cosmodog at SSP

isaidso

March 10th, 2008, 08:47 AM

Never been there, but couldn't they just take the roof off for the Olympics? This would solve the major concerns regarding stadium integrity during this event. BC Pavillion Corp. could use the proceeds from the land sales next to the stadium to fund the construction of a completely new stadium on the same site after the Olympics.

Everyone would get what they want. Vanoc and the IOC would be happy since the roof problem is solved. Taxpayers would be happy since no rush job that escalates costs would occur.

$250 million seems like too much to pay for a refurbishment. Spend a bit more and get a new facility. It seems the only thing preventing a new stadium is the time constraint. A new stadium can't be built for 2010, so just wait till after the Games.

I suppose there would be drainage issues since the stadium wasn't built to deal with rain, etc., I doubt an open air BC Place would be so bad. I do like BC Place Stadium, but other options need to be considered.

D J M K

March 10th, 2008, 06:52 PM

i have to admit, i think BC Place Stadium is the ugliest building in Vancouver and i hate watching any type of event there. the acoustics are just horrible and the seating is even worse. (to give away my age, i was at the Vancouver whitecaps opening game at the stadium. moving indoors was the worse thing that team ever did).

i was convinced that if vancouver did not get the olympics, that bc place would be replaced by condos. however, now that we are going to keep it, i have my serious doubts that renos would be completed by 2010.

Overground

March 10th, 2008, 08:50 PM

Never been there, but couldn't they just take the roof off for the Olympics?...

I suppose there would be drainage issues since the stadium wasn't built to deal with rain, etc., I doubt an open air BC Place would be so bad. I do like BC Place Stadium, but other options need to be considered.

This is what I thought of before but the time involved where the inside of the stadium is open to the elements could be, like you said, a drainage issue as the stadium was not built for that. Then there is the question of roof coverage for the fans from the elements...rain. And you know that would be a big problem with some people and Vanoc would probably agree.

On the flip side. I suppose preparatory work before could be done regarding drainage and a temporary 'stands' roof could be used for the Olympics until a permanent roof was put in. Though the temp roof would cost money it might be cheaper in the long run in case a rushed permanent roof was done now and it turned out to be a lemon.

gameseven07

March 11th, 2008, 08:30 PM

The Sun article said they were also looking at a Stadium in Berlin. Which one could that be? Could they have mistaked that for the one in Frankfurt?

quote: "London-based Hightex installed the fabric on the Pusan Stadium, Berlin Stadium and a soccer stadium in South Africa, three projects PavCo said it looked at when considering a replacement system"

mr.x

March 12th, 2008, 07:09 AM

A rush job to raise a new roof for BC Place in time for the Olympics is an unaffordable risk

Vancouver Sun
Published: Tuesday, March 11, 2008

No one ever made it to the Olympics without dreaming big. So ambition is no sin in preparations for the 2010 Winter Games in Vancouver.

But there comes a point in any contest when you are far enough ahead that what you have to lose becomes more important than what is left to gain.

We're at that point in considering whether to replace the roof of BC Place before the opening ceremonies, now just 23 months away.

VANOC'S COMING UP ROSES

The Vancouver Organizing Committee (Vanoc) has done a great job of getting venues ready for the Games, largely on time and on budget. Based on what we've seen so far, we're confident that when the attention of the world focuses on British Columbia, we won't be embarrassed by facilities that aren't ready.

Following the collapse of the roof of BC Place last year, legitimate concerns were raised -- belatedly perhaps -- over whether the inflatable structure was still sound. The analysis done since then is that the roof will need to be replaced eventually, but we can count on the existing structure not to spoil the big show with a similar collapse during the Olympics.

When PavCo -- the Crown agency responsible for the stadium -- revealed earlier this year that it was considering a plan to replace the roof, PavCo chairman David Podmore told The Sun that, while it would be nice to have it done for the Olympics, he was confident a new roof would not be required to ensure the Games proceed without the international humiliation of a catastrophic collapse.

So a new roof in time for the opening ceremony falls into the category of nice, but not necessary.

Still, if a new roof is needed within the next few years, why not throw it up in time for the biggest show BC Place will likely host in the foreseeable future?

The first reason is the cost. As we have already seen with the Vancouver Convention Centre expansion, now about $400 million over the original estimates, there are two vises that will put the squeeze on PavCo if it tries to have a new roof in place for the opening ceremonies.

First is the hot construction market, with double-digit inflation for labour and materials.

Second is the ironclad end date. BC Place has to be ready for Vanoc by November of 2009. No doubt PavCo can find someone willing to guarantee the roof will be ready in time, but everyone involved will understand it is a rush job and stiff premiums will have to be paid.

As Sun Olympic reporter Jeff Lee discovered from companies capable of taking on the job, those will be premiums on a job where the base price starts somewhere north of $100 million.

DELAYS ARE UNAVOIDABLE

Even with expensive guarantees from a contractor, PavCo can't eliminate the unacceptable risk that, even with the best planning, unforeseen delays could mean the job does not get done in time.

And as British Columbians have seen with the convention centre expansion, the fast ferries and other hastily launched projects, the best planning is rarely found in rush jobs.

We're winning the race to get ready for the Olympics. Adding the challenge of a new roof for BC Place in time for the opening ceremonies is an unnecessary risk we can't afford to take.

© The Vancouver Sun 2008

On the cost of replacing BC Place roof the conventional way

Jeff Lee
Vancouver Sun Blogs

Last week I followed up on a lead uncovered by my columnist colleague Miro Cernetiq, who mused that government might be considering replacing the aging BC Place Stadium's air supported dome with a retractable one.
David Podmore, the chairman of PavCo, the stadium owner, and Warren Buckley, the CEO, confirmed in an early-morning interview that yes, plans were being drawn up to replace the roof; either with an "in-kind" teflon job like the one in place, or with a more modern one that would eliminate the high utility costs the crown corporation has to pay annually.The plan was accelerated by the January, 2007 deflation of the dome, the first in its 26-year history.

Of course, neither of the men wanted to name prices, saying that they were reviewing bids submitted by three companies for the simple replacement of the roof. (Those companies are Birdair, Hightex and Fabritec. Birdair installed the original roof and has maintained it for the last 26 years.)

Podmore and Buckley also didn't want to project costs for the more expensive retractable version.

I followed the front-page story with another one in which Uni-systems, the U.S. company that does the majority of North American retractable roofs, said it would cost about $150 million.

I was unable to get anyone to tell me the comparative costs of simply replacing BC Place's dome with another skin.

Until now.

On Friday, while in Courtenay on assignment I ran into Stan Hagen, the tourism and sport minister, who is also responsible for PavCo.
He didn't want to be held to a firm price, but he admitted that the order of magnitude for a new air supported dome is about $20 million. So there you have it: $20 million for a new (old) roof and $1.4 million a year to keep it inflated, or $150 million for a new retractable roof, to be paid for through the profit of commercial development on spare PavCo land. One last note: Podmore says there is no truth to a news report out of Malaysia that a company there is in discussions to supply materials for a "Winter Olympic stadium." At least not BC Place.

Officials open to new roof
2010 Games organizers await word on design

Damian Inwood, The Province
Published: Tuesday, March 11, 2008

Vancouver 2010 will need to know by the end of the summer whether a new roof for B.C. Place Stadium is closed, open or retractable.

Olympic committee CEO John Furlong said the 2010 opening and closing ceremonies can be easily modified to work with any design.

"Whatever the decision is, I hope it has more of the long-term interests of the community in mind than just Vancouver 2010," said Furlong. "We will obviously be happy with the venue that we have. If the venue has flexibility . . . it will give us things we could do we otherwise wouldn't be able to do. But there are things we're able to do in a closed stadium you can't do in an open-roofed stadium so, either way, we'll have a great show."

Last week, B.C. Pavilion Corp. chairman David Podmore said he'd like to see a new roof on the stadium in time for the 2010 Winter Games.

B.C. Lions president and CEO Bob Ackles welcomed the idea but couldn't say what kind of short-term impact it might have on his club.

Furlong said Olympic organizers will spend the next six to eight months designing the concept for the opening and closing ceremonies.

"We'll work with the venue that we have and, either way, we'll modify the work that we're doing to suit that," he added. "If they make a change, great. If we are left with the same roof, we'll act accordingly."

He said the International Olympic Committee would not need to approve such a change, so long as Vancouver 2010 can deliver a top-class show.

He said that in Olympic opening ceremonies there are usually several, "How did they do that?" moments.

In Lillehammer in 1994, it was when a ski jumper delivered the Olympic flame and in Barcelona in 1992, when the cauldron was lit by a flaming arrow, Furlong said.

dinwood@png.canwest.com

© The Vancouver Province 2008

Name game's prattish

David Pratt, The Province
Published: Tuesday, March 11, 2008

Repeat after me: "I [your name] do hereby invoke the 'Enron curse' on all companies that slap their monikers on stadiums and arenas that used to be named for our history, our province and our city."

May their beer be warm, their nachos cold and their PVR stuck on Leafs TV.

B.C. Place is about to get a new roof. What it does not need is a new name.
Things are looking up ... way up ... for B.C. Place Stadium these days.

David Podmore, the chairman of PavCo, which owns B.C. Place, says the Crown corporation will pay for the roof through development of condominium towers on the property it owns at the corners of the stadium.

Nevertheless, the temptation to sell out can be overwhelming. In Chicago the Cubs and Wrigley Field are for sale.

As part of the deal the team is now willing to surrender the naming rights to the ballpark.

What's the price of 92 years of history?

Experts expect those rights could be worth over $10 million a year, bringing the total value of the team and park to close to $700 million.

In January the Cleveland Indians sold the rights to Jacobs Field for $60 million over the next 16 years.

The Jake is dead! Long live Progressive Field!

Next year the New York Mets will move into their new stadium. Goodbye, Shea Stadium ... welcome to Citi Field.

The company agreed to pay the Mets $400 million over the next 20 years just for the naming rights. The Yankees will also move into their new home next year but it will remain Yankee Stadium. Instead, the team is selling sponsorship opportunities in the park for as much as $20 million a year.

That's the approach the Boston Red Sox have taken.

This season Fenway Park has added 400 seats down the left field line now known as Coca-Cola Corner.

The company will have a sign 43 ft. long and 12 ft. high right next to the Green Monster.

It's the same story in the NHL.

There are only three teams in the entire league that have not sold out the names of their arenas (Detroit Red Wings, New York Rangers, New York Islanders). The Vancouver Canucks tried to cash in when they opened their new arena in 1995 but seriously undervalued the property. General Motors landed the naming rights for a mere $844,000 a year until 2015.

The plague of corporate-name disease is so widespread the leagues could break down their teams into divisions.

The Money Division: TD Waterhouse Arena, TD Banknorth Garden, RBC Center, HSBC Arena, Wachovia Center, Bank One Ball Park and Bank of America Stadium.

The Airport Division: Air Canada Center, American Airlines Arena, Delta Center and the United Center.

The Eating and Drinking Division: Coors Field, Miller Park, Minute Maid Park, Tropicana Field, Pepsi Center and Heinz Field.

Rise up, British Columbians! Vow never to let another corporate name poison your lips.

If not, it's guaranteed those cigar-smoking fat cats will have you watching the opening ceremonies of the 2010 Winter Olympics at Colonel Sanders Place.

You got a problem with this? David Pratt can be heard Monday to Friday, 3-7 p.m. on TEAM 1040.

© The Vancouver Province 2008

EastVanMark

March 12th, 2008, 09:53 AM

Dave Pratt, welcome to the modern world. With all the events it hosts, BC Place should be able to fetch $2 million a year for naming rights. Now IF we had ANY kind of head office presence in this city (thank you again city council), a bidding war could have taken place causing the price to go as high as 6 or 7 million a year.

gameseven07

March 12th, 2008, 10:35 PM

feel free to vote in the poll as to what you think will be the final chosen design:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=593599

gameseven07

March 16th, 2008, 01:03 AM

There's been severe damage to the Georgia Dome teflon roof in Atlanta due to the storms and tornado. How will this influence a decision on our roof?

gameseven07

March 25th, 2008, 01:56 AM

In the next week or so the expectation is that Pavco will deliver the Final report on BC Place renovations, both the business case and feasibility study, to Provincial Cabinet in Victoria and ultimately into the hands of the Premier for a final decision.

If you needed an example of how renovation costs can be expensive, never mind a nice roof, how about $ 250 million just to renovate Rexall Place in Edmonton! Yikes!:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/2008/03/24/arena-report.html

Ravman

March 25th, 2008, 07:43 PM

Gordo raising a new roof?
By BOB MACKIN, 24 HOURS

Will it be a green convertible for Premier Gordon Campbell when he appears at BC Place Stadium before next week's Vancouver International Auto Show?

Sources tell 24 hours that Campbell will announce what technology has been chosen to replace the roof at the 25-year-old 2010 Olympic stadium. It might be a retractable roof, which could mean the energy-using fans that keep the fabric roof aloft would be shut down.

Crews of German-speaking surveyors have been spotted around the dome in recent weeks, suggesting that Koch Hightex may supply the material. The company's retractable work includes two tennis stadiums in Germany and a bullfighting arena in Madrid, Spain. It has also supplied fixed roofs for stadiums in Berlin and Busan, South Korea.

This could be when Victoria invokes the Significant Projects Streamlining Act to ensure the most important construction job for the Games is finished on time. The fast-track law was enacted Dec. 2, 2003 - exactly six months after Vancouver won the 2010 bid.

D J M K

March 26th, 2008, 12:08 AM

Hightex can do some amazing things with fabric. i believe they helped on the Burj Al Arab in Dubai as well as other things. however, they do much more than retractable roofs.

http://www.hightexworld.com/page/start.html

D J M K

March 26th, 2008, 12:17 AM

brentwood mall also has a fabric roof that (i believe) is suppose to resemble the north shore mountains. i think it looks quite sharp and a similar idea would be kinda cool for BC Place.

Ravman

March 26th, 2008, 02:11 AM

brentwood mall also has a fabric roof that (i believe) is suppose to resemble the north shore mountains. i think it looks quite sharp and a similar idea would be kinda cool for BC Place.

the last thing we want is a dome with a roof like that...

i am not saying the brentwood mall looks ugly nor does canada place but you cant start to put in a funky room in a small structure ( yes i know its huge in terms of the diameter... approx 3/4 of a mile) but the structure type is different.

gameseven07

March 26th, 2008, 02:39 AM

drum roll please...

deasine

March 26th, 2008, 03:26 AM

the last thing we want is a dome with a roof like that...

i am not saying the brentwood mall looks ugly nor does canada place but you cant start to put in a funky room in a small structure ( yes i know its huge in terms of the diameter... approx 3/4 of a mile) but the structure type is different.

haha yeah. Do we need another Canada Place-like building in downtown?

gameseven07

March 26th, 2008, 07:14 AM

A flat roof like the CommerzBank Stadium in Frankfurt would look awful when looking at BC Place from the side. At least with the dome, the white dome gives the stadium some height, some structure.

With a flat roof, which this may turn out to be, the Stadium will look similar to what it looked like while the roof was hanging down deflated.

You think that will be an improvement over what we currently have? Not in the looks department certainly...

You see, the way BC Place was designed, in a sort of ellipse with seats all around, the Stadium looks best with some sort of curved roof atop. A flat roof just doesn't seem to fit the current design.

I'm just getting this feeling that the Government will unveil some sort of flat roof design, a rigid structure, so that there's no chance of a deflation due to human error.

With a rigid roof, if one panel fails at least the whole damn roof doesn't come crashing down...

deasine

March 26th, 2008, 07:52 AM

The roof must have some sort of curve no matter what; otherwise, the snow will just crash the stadium down. That's unless of course we have a roof-warming system or huge arches that support the roof.

But that's ugly. Let's just have a retractable roof that keeps a similar shape of todays BC Place.

gameseven07

March 26th, 2008, 08:50 AM

CommerzBank Stadium in Frankfurt was designed in such way that the flat roof fits the style of the Stadium. Any roof addition for BC Place will have to have some sort of curve or it'll look like crapp.

gameseven07

March 30th, 2008, 09:46 PM

Why did Campbell cancel the announcement? What's up? Project cancelled?

Ravman

March 30th, 2008, 10:58 PM

the thing with campbell is that he is going to wait to announce it at a time where he can maximize the media attention... right now the media is focusing on the minister of flip-flops and therefore not a good idea...

gameseven07

March 31st, 2008, 01:55 AM

It seems like there's a connection but problem is they had said on Wednesday that the Roof announcement wasn't happening on Saturday, yet the Premier says he didn't hear about John Les's resignation until Friday on the tv news... I'm suspicious...

so I suspect that it's quite likely the Premier got advance notice of John Les's resignation possibly Monday or Tuesday last week and then decided to kibosh Saturday's announcement. 24 Hrs ran the Gordo raising roof article on Tuesday.

I find it hard to believe the Premier didn't have some advance indications that something was up with John Les. John Les would have to have given the Premier some advance notice or he would lose credibility in the Premier's eyes. You don't just drop the bowling ball on the Premier's feet like that unless you never want to get back into his Cabinet.

24 Hrs has pretty good connections so there definitely was a kibosh. These controversial announcements like to be done on Fridays so that by Monday everything will have smoothed over.

I would like to believe the Roof and John Les are two different pots of soup and not to be mixed regardless of what Campbell is saying publically.

I mean publically David Podmore is dancing around and saying no decision has been made yet on the roof, but we all know that privately the winning design has been chosen and the winning bidder is already secretly working on preliminary details but the winning bidder is sworn to secrecy and is in shutup mode, and the two losing bidders haven't been told anything yet and for good reason.

The winner knows in advance, the losers are kept guessing so they don't spill the marbles in advance. Happens all the time in public-private partenerships. I may be wrong here but likely am right.

valleyflyfisher

March 31st, 2008, 02:21 AM

Where was it printed about the timing of the roof announcement? I never saw/heard anything on any newscasts, or newspapers last week and I am sure they would have been on top of it had there been.

gameseven07

March 31st, 2008, 04:05 AM

post 126 above

Ravman

March 31st, 2008, 04:49 AM

i was speculating there earlier... i figure the announcement was going to occur on saturday but i didnt hear about the cancellation of it on wednesday, so i figure the cancellation occurred late on friday .

gameseven07

March 31st, 2008, 06:45 AM

Nope, Podmore dismissed it Wednesday or late Tuesday:

BC Place roof still up in the air
PavCo expects to recommend replacement option to province soon
Jeff Lee, Vancouver Sun
Published: Wednesday, March 26, 2008
A decision on what kind of roof will replace the Teflon air-supported dome of BC Place has not yet been made, the chairman of PavCo, the building's owner, said Wednesday.

David Podmore said the Crown corporation is still studying options for the stadium and has not yet concluded whether a simple replacement of the air-inflated dome, or a new retractable one, will take place.

PavCo has made no recommendations yet to the provincial government, but expects to do so soon, he said.
"We're going through this very thoroughly, looking at the different options, and trying to get to a point where we can make a recommendation," he said. "It is quite complicated, and when I come forward with a recommendation I want answers to all the questions you are going to pose and should pose."

Nearly three weeks ago, Podmore confirmed to The Vancouver Sun that PavCo intends to replace the roof in time for the opening ceremonies of the 2010 Winter Olympics and Paralympics. He said at the time that a report recommending options would go to government within a month. And he acknowledged that PavCo is exploring the idea of installing a retractable roof that would require engineering upgrades to the stadium.

On Wednesday he gave no indication of which roof he prefers, but hinted that it will involve a complex process.
"I also want to be able to give a very full explanation of budget, the schedule, the logistics, how we are going to manage whatever program is recommended. We're working as fast as we can, and we want to do it soon."
He dismissed media reports speculating that Premier Gordon Campbell might make an announcement at Saturday's auto show in BC Place.

"I am not aware of any intent to make an announcement at the auto show," he said.

gameseven07

April 2nd, 2008, 11:02 PM

The roof is leaking again. More roof problems over the weekend and Global TV showed water dripping down.

And before you say the word "Condensation", keep in mind the Olympic flame burning for 17 straight days could create enough heat to cause the dome to rain.

mr.x

April 3rd, 2008, 12:47 AM

Ravman

April 4th, 2008, 01:23 AM

the roof is leaking.... ahhahahah you guys just found out... lol oh my... seems like you dont even know half of the stuff that goes on in there lol

valleyflyfisher

April 4th, 2008, 03:53 PM

Ravman, here is your chance to enlighten the mass's, do tell, what is the other half of what goes on at BC Place?

gameseven07

April 4th, 2008, 06:43 PM

I was at the Monster Turck show and I was told that the problem with the Stadium is not what you can see...

it's what you can't see... the stuff that's not exposed to the public... could mean broken pipes, cracked walls, broken machinery, stuff the public doesn't see, stuff behind walls...

I thing RavMan may agree with me on this...

I went to PlayDome and was quite disappointed with the state of a lot of what I saw... it's a building in disrepair, a building that has not had very good upkeep... if you're not going to spend the money to fix things up, the place will fall apart...

the roof is atrocious, water stained and covered with soot, it's a disgrace

safe to assume this $ 250 million that the Government will announce for Stadium rehabilitation will not all go into a new roof

Ravman

April 4th, 2008, 10:27 PM

ahahah gameseven07... its true.... there are areas that are off limits and so yeah... some areas like the booths on the 4th floor are nice but others areas are in need of repair... its a huge huge place and there are cars and what not that drive in there so the place does get dirty but there are other areas that need major repair. the roof is one but there are other things...

gameseven07

April 4th, 2008, 11:15 PM

Lions owner Braley says he knows of a Plan A and a Plan B and knows what the recommended plan will be.

Interesting scenario having a Plan A and a backup Plan B. I suspect lots of times in design and engineering you have a backup plan in case the primary plan is rejected or deemed not feasible.

But a Plan A and Plan B is an interesting development as there are two directions this could go.

I suspect one plan is a Retractable and the other Plan is a Fixed if the Retractable is a no go. Then again Plan B could be an Inflatable where Plan A is the Retractable but I can't see Plan A being the Inflatable and the Plan B being the Retractable. I would think the bigger project of the two would be the Plan A.

Neda Say

April 5th, 2008, 12:46 AM

Ravman

April 5th, 2008, 05:45 AM

everyone calm down and wait and see what they decide to do and dont get your hopes up for feb 2010....

gameseven07

April 7th, 2008, 01:47 AM

well if you needed proof that a new BC Place could cost half a billion, look at what Minnesota had planned for the Vikings with a Retractable:

gameseven07

April 7th, 2008, 01:48 AM

well if you needed proof that a new BC Place could cost half a billion, look at what Minnesota had planned for the Vikings with a Retractable:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_kmafp/is_200509/ai_n15357523?tag=rel.res1

skyboi

April 7th, 2008, 02:12 AM

mr.x

April 7th, 2008, 03:14 AM

gameseven07

April 8th, 2008, 07:23 AM

you can change the thread title from "proposed" to "confirmed!" here too

Ravman

April 8th, 2008, 10:25 PM

the official announcement has yet to be made

gameseven07

April 10th, 2008, 01:48 AM

I'm starting to hear rumblings the announcement from Victoria could come next week

there was a big Pavco reorganization announcement this week

and it involves a huge amount of funding for BC Place, well into the 9 figures

jlousa

April 10th, 2008, 01:59 AM

The guy in the orange vest has connection in Victoria????:ohno:

gameseven07

April 10th, 2008, 03:34 AM

Hey JLousa, sorry to burst your bubble, but you said in February on the other Forum that there would be an announcement about this in two weeks. That was back in February. This is now April.

Leftcoaster first said they would start work in February and do the bubble roof in 5 months, then backtracked and said there were no firm plans decided on.

It's not the first time in history a grandoise plan has been put together by only a select few. Neither you nor Leftcoaster are part of that "few".

Furthermore, neither you nor Leftcoaster are the Premier of British Columbia, neither of you are elected officials, and unless you and Leftcoaster are willing to identify yourselves and your roles in the City of Vancouver, whether they be managers or senior officials or planners, then gladly stop coming on these forums and shooting down everyone and everything that comes along.

Neither of you knows what the final design is. Nobody does. Not even I do.

I also see that you and Leftcoaster, if the man in the orange vest wasn't enough, are now picking a fight with someone else on the other forum arguing about building heights.

JLousa I also see in the other forum that in your argument with a towerguy3 over the Whitecaps stadium, you agreed that you were "overpaid"?

JLousa and Leftcoaster, what are both of you privy to with regard to goings on inside the Premier's office?

nova9

April 10th, 2008, 06:52 AM

Not to harp on anyone gameseven07 but jlousa's contributions have been numerous - especially if you are also on SSP. I've only been on here for a few months but I can already tell that jlousa pulls a lot of weight in terms of credibility. just my $0.02.

deasine

April 10th, 2008, 07:55 AM

Let's just stop attacking each other personally and directly know.

Ravman

April 11th, 2008, 01:11 AM

From Question Period today! This is only the BLUES version and an official version will be published tomorrow.

B.C. PLACE ROOF REPLACEMENT

N. Macdonald: Two years ago the NDP asked this government if the roof of B.C. Place needed to be replaced before the Olympics, and we were assured that the roof was fine. Subsequently, it has collapsed. It is discoloured. It has recently had water dripping from it. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
The question is simple. The chair of the board responsible for B.C. Place says the roof needs to be replaced. He says the roof will last a maximum of four years, minimum undetermined. He says it should be replaced before the Olympic Games. The question: is the provincial government committed to replacing the roof of B.C. Place before the Olympic Games? [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Hon. S. Hagen: Mr. Speaker, I can't tell you how pleased I am to receive the question from that member, because that member had never been inside B.C. Place until three weeks ago when I arranged a tour for him. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Interjections. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Mr. Speaker: Members. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]
Continue, Minister. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Hon. S. Hagen: I can tell you that the chair of the board of VCCEP is preparing a number of alternatives for government. Government will consider those alternatives and move forward. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Interjections. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

Mr. Speaker: Members. [DRAFT TRANSCRIPT ONLY]

jlousa

April 11th, 2008, 04:21 AM

gameseven07 are you implying that you are not Towerguy3?

It is no secret who I am, I don't use an alias, I do not promote who I work for as I don't speak on behalf on them when I'm here. Quite a few people on here and SSP know me, they respect my wishes not to publicize those details. It isn't hard to figure it out though if someone wanted to.

I'm just a guy that likes to eat a nice steak, has lots of useful information, who also happens to be severely overpaid. :banana:

deasine

April 11th, 2008, 06:19 AM

mr.x

April 11th, 2008, 06:33 AM

Haha I was thinking gameseven07 was towerguy3 too heehee...

o_o it took you that long? i knew right away when he made his first post.

deasine

April 11th, 2008, 07:50 AM

o_o it took you that long? i knew right away when he made his first post.

I just didn't want to point it out :lol: Sometimes my randomness goes nowhere... let's not embarrass myself =)

Ravman

April 11th, 2008, 10:56 AM

BLUES TRANSCRIPT!
Hon. S. Hagen: I can tell you that the chair of the board of VCCEP is preparing a number of alternatives for government. Government will consider those alternatives and move forward.

so the govt is going to be putting in a new roof.... its like official since the govt is not taking the question on notice or saying that its under investigation or before the courts like they do with virtually everything else...

gameseven07

April 11th, 2008, 04:40 PM

a number of alternatives?

gameseven07

April 11th, 2008, 06:36 PM

Ravman, thank you so much! Is there any way you can say where that whole transcript can be found?

gameseven07

April 11th, 2008, 06:44 PM

found it:

http://142.36.155.4/hansard/38th4th/H80410y.htm

gameseven07

April 11th, 2008, 08:51 PM

just so you all are aware of who N. Macdonald is listed above:

Norm Macdonald (politician)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Norm Macdonald (politics))

Norm Macdonald is the member for the riding of Columbia River-Revelstoke in the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia. He was elected in the 2005 as a member of the New Democratic Party of British Columbia.

Mr. Macdonald is the Opposition Critic for Tourism, Sport, and the Arts.

Prior to running for office, he was principal of Nicholson Elementary School in Golden and has more than 20 years teaching experience. Mr. Macdonald was also previously a city councillor and mayor of Golden.

Ravman

April 11th, 2008, 10:41 PM

ahahha glad you found it on Hansard....

gameseven07

April 11th, 2008, 11:42 PM

looks like Macdonald saw the dripping too... most of the dripping happened on the Saturday the Premier was there so Stan Hagen must have arranged Macdonald see the roof first hand, and he noted how stained and pathetic it looked...

good time to show an opposition critic the condition of the roof when it's dripping... PERFECT TIMING!

gameseven07

April 19th, 2008, 10:50 PM

So Pavco's recommendation to Cabinet is a Retractable after all:

U.S. stadium expert questions retrofit rush

B.C. PLACE

By BOB MACKIN, 24 HOURS

Work continues to prepare B.C. Place Stadium for its pre-Olympic roof replacement.

Crews from Surrey's Mud Bay Drilling were seen extracting core samples from outside the stadium this week. If the provincial government "green lights" B.C. Pavilion Corp. chairman David Podmore's retractable roof preference, the site of the 2010 Winter Olympics' opening and closing ceremonies would need major external reinforcement.

"Anything is structurally feasible if you have enough money, " said Lee Slade of Houston, Tex. stadium roof engineering specialist, Walter P. Moore.

"Is it feasible to get a retractable roof built by February 2010? Y'know, my company has made its reputation on doing things that have never been done before, but I think that would be almost impossible in that time frame to do a retractable roof."

Podmore told employees in December that he recommended renovating the 25-year-old stadium and replacing its roof. He said in January that his plan, including the budget, would be public by the end of March.

Slade said there have been considerable innovations in concession facilities, suites, light and rigging and marshaling since the early 1980s heyday of air-supported, fabric roof domes.

"I'd be interested to see what a retractable roof and renovation of that building would cost and whether it would be, in the long run, much cheaper to build a new building," Slade said. Vancouver's 2010 Olympic bid did not contemplate major renovations at B.C. Place.

jlousa

April 19th, 2008, 11:14 PM

Wow you still haven't figured it out. :ohno:

Let me convert this to a math equations.

A=(Today)=(April 19th, 2008)
B=(Roof replacement)=(5 months)
C=(Retractable roof)=(more then 18months even if no problems)
D=(Vanoc handover)=(Nov 09)

1) A+B<D (no problems)
2) A+C>D (big problems)

Answer = Press conference by Pavco "We would have loved to have upgraded the stadium to a retractable roof, but after careful consideration of all options we have decided not to risk a potential embrassment of not having the stadium complete in time; and have decided to err on the side of safety by choosing to replace the existing roof with one of similiar style. This will not cost the taxpayers any money and will be completely covered by selling excess land that Pavco does not require for operation of the stadium. This project will be completed on time and on budget.

Translation, they never really wanted to go ahead with a retractable roof, but not to upset those that do, they have dragged their feet for long enough that a retractable roof is no longer even an option. Hence they can claim their hands are tied. Oh and I get a steak.

gameseven07

April 19th, 2008, 11:38 PM

Multiple choice test:

1. Crews from Mud Bay Drilling in Surrey are drilling around the Stadium because:

a) they're searching for gold

b) gold isn't good enough, they're searching for diamonds

c) they're extracting core samples for Stadium work

2. German speaking crews were doing surveying around the Stadium because:

a) they were visiting cause they like Vancouver and they don't mind if Koch Hightex pays their airfare and accomodation

b) their sight guages were actually cameras and they were taking lots of photos of the mountains to take home to show their families

c) they were doing surveying work for the Stadium

jlousa

April 19th, 2008, 11:47 PM

1) d) they're extracting core samples for Stadium work (nothing to do with a retractable roof)

2) d) they were doing surveying work for the Stadium (nothing to do with a retractable roof...think replacement roof)

Funny how there is a perfectly explainable answer to those questions.
Have you figured a way to make A+C<D?? No one else has.

gameseven07

April 20th, 2008, 12:56 AM

JLousa, are you suggesting David Podmore and Warren Buckley have no credibility?

gameseven07

April 20th, 2008, 01:23 AM

Read the article. The article clearly states, and I recall Podmore was quoted as saying in January, the Retractable is the preference of Pavco. How much clearer does it have to be?

They're not going to recommend that to Cabinet if they don't know it can be completed on time.

Therefore, Pavco has come to the conclusion, based on assessments from their experts and consultants, that the job can be done on time.

Not based on some testimony from some engineer in Texas who hasn't even seen the plans. He probably doesn't even realize, and evidently you don't either, that the whole BC Place Stadium was built in 22 months. The whole stadium. Not just the roof.

22 months. That's as many months as from now to the Olympics. They built BC Place Stadium in that span of time in 1982.

End of story. You think senior officials at Pavco are willing to put their credibility on the line by holding a press conference and saying "hey guys I'm sorry but we just don't have enough time to get the job done cause we fiddled around too long" when they know the response from the media / public will be "well why didn't you pinheads get onto this a bit sooner"?

Furthermore, David Podmore and Warren Buckley have been associated with BC Place for the last 25 years. In the ealy 80s David Podmore was a planner for the Expo development and Warren Buckley was the Stadium's Marketing Manager.

David Podmore wasn't appointed to his position within Pavilion Corporation by the Premier of British Columbia because he conducts the Corporation's matters in the way you suggested as to how the fictitious press conference should play its way out.

These two individuals didn't work their way up the ladder by talking foolish and being deceitful to the public such as you suggest.

Shame on you for even suggesting such total nonsense!

jlousa

April 20th, 2008, 03:13 AM

I stand by what I've said, there will be no retractable roof built in time for the 2010 Olympics. I'm confident enough to have placed a bet on it. My reputation is on the line of there being no retractable roof for the Olympics. I won't bash David Podmore or Warren Buckley as I have no reason to. I will bash the claim that a retractable roof can be designed/built/installed before Nov/09 on the budget they are able to spend.

A retractable roof serves of no economic benefit. The only usage it could serve is half a dozen Lions games and maybe half a dozen other events a year this is all weather pending. The biggest consumer of the stadium is trade shows which require a closed environment and a retractable roof does nothing to assist them. There is an economical argument for a fixed roof, there is none for a retractable in our city. Most people remember why BC Place was built to replace the open aired Empire Stadium, it rains here. Most people would prefer not to see an additional $150Million over what they could recoup from their land sale go towards something that is of no use almost all the time. You seem to think I have some personal agenda against a retractable roof, fact is I'm looking at this logically and not as a fanatic.

gameseven07

April 20th, 2008, 05:08 AM

and spending $ 400 million on a new Art Gallery also serves no economic purpose and is a ridiculous waste of money

deasine

April 20th, 2008, 05:39 AM

Hoh wow I'm not going to waste my time arguing on that... you've got a lot to learn. And btw, wrong comparison there.

gameseven07

April 20th, 2008, 04:40 PM

JLousa, you're forgetting one very important factor. One reason that is motivating the Government to consider all its options.

There is one primary reason driving the Government's interest in a Retractable roof. You are correct that it's not the BC Lions, Trade Shows or Conventions. I agree with you there.

I don't disagree with some of your economic arguments. And I would somewhat agree with your economic arguments if Trade Shows, Conventions and BC Lions games were the only events happening inside BC Place over the next 700 days.

But there is one thing you're not considering that the Government is.

What do you think that ONE thing is?

D J M K

April 20th, 2008, 06:22 PM

for me, its all about analyzing the potential risk and reward.

personally, i think the risk of not completing the retractable roof on time far exceeds the reward of having it done on time. and if you want to calculate costs into the equation, well.... $150 million (??) mistake could bring down a government if the NDP were on their game.

jlousa, your math is sound.

gameseven07

April 20th, 2008, 08:42 PM

so you're suggesting a Fixed roof over the Stadium, not an inflatable, but fixed in position?

such as a canopy? could it be designed in such way to allow sunlight?

D J M K

April 20th, 2008, 09:13 PM

first off, i really hate BC Place Stadium. I think its the ugliest and most unfriendly building in town. watching games/concerts/events in there make my skin crawl. the acoustics alone make me shiver. however, i do understand its value to the city and i'm sure a new retractable roof (or fixed) would be sweet and an improvement.

however, i think the wisest course of action would be a quick and easy patch job that will last till end of the olympics and then make a decision (whatever that may be)

or (and my favorite), knock down the stadium and let kerfoot build whatever he wants. Go CAPS!!!!

gameseven07

April 20th, 2008, 10:14 PM

Well I think either way, Fixed roof or Retractable, they will have to do some reinforcement of the walls.

gameseven07

April 20th, 2008, 11:26 PM

It's 2 months to BC Place's 25th Anniversary June 19 so they might as well make the announcement public on June 19 and give the Stadium their 25th Anniversary present then.

The Lions play the Stamps that night which was the same matchup for the first Lions game in the dome in 1983 attended by 55,000. The Guess Who performed that day.

I'm sure they're timing it so they can unveil the design model on June 19 at the 25th Anniversary...

EastVanMark

April 22nd, 2008, 04:58 AM

The Team 1040 is reporting that PavCo is going to recommend the retracable roof option to the Provincial government, to be built in time for the 2010 Olympics.

gameseven07

April 22nd, 2008, 06:09 AM

Plumber73

April 22nd, 2008, 07:00 AM

The Team 1040 is reporting that PavCo is going to recommend the retracable roof option to the Provincial government, to be built in time for the 2010 Olympics.And the government will tell PavCo they are on crack... but it'd be cool if it could be pulled off though. I forsee a tarp that one can roll up. :lol:

gameseven07

April 22nd, 2008, 07:33 AM

If the Government had no interest in a Retractable, they would've told Pavco by now. Pavco has been keeping the Premier and Cabinet up to date on every step of the process.

After all it was the Premier who told Podmore to search for solutions to the Roof last summer.

It's not like the Government is suddenly waking up and smelling the coffee. The Premier wanted a solution to the current roof situation, and putting up another roof the same as we have now is not a solution.

nova9

April 22nd, 2008, 07:39 AM

yawn.

mr.x

April 22nd, 2008, 08:38 AM

Below is the link. Scroll to 1 pm.

By the way Mr X2, banning me from SSP is a childish and self serving move on YOUR part and your part only and won't get me to buy JLousa's steak.

http://www.team1040.ca/podcast/rick_ball/Rick_Ball_Show_Apr_21~.mp3

Here is the link. Listen after the 1 o clock hour

You were temporarily banned because you had been spamming the forums about BC Place, despite hints by other members and myself of our displeasure of your posts. And over the past few months, I've received quite a few complaints in my inbox.

Anyhow, if we do get a retractable and if they can ensure it is built on time and properly, i'm all for it.

gameseven07

April 22nd, 2008, 09:00 AM

Temporarily banned until Feb 29, 2010? Right when I was at 999 posts?

How about since I was one post short of 1000 posts you let me make the announcement of the Roof when it comes down?

mr.x

April 22nd, 2008, 09:03 AM

If you didn't see it coming despite all the hints, that was your problem.

And actually, you were at 997 posts.

jlousa

April 22nd, 2008, 07:02 PM

I thought you claimed you weren't TG3.... :bash:

Team1040 is speculating, they know about as much as you do.
I've already told you before, I would be glad to get a retractable roof and be the one buying the steak, it doesn't change the facts though (acutally I'd prefer a fixed roof covered with solar panels if we're dishing out wishes). There will not be a retractable roof built in time for the 2010 olympics.
Don't worry though BC place will be around another ~25yrs mind you it will look a lil different. :cheers:

gameseven07

April 22nd, 2008, 07:54 PM

Two architectural firms in Vancouver working on the design?

That's just a big lie, isn't it? Lies, lies, lies.

Guess we'll have to wait till the press conference before you'll be convinced:ohno:

jlousa

April 22nd, 2008, 08:17 PM

Now that's pretty funny, because I was thinking the exact same thing.
Double porterhouse steak will be even tastier when I'm not paying for it. :cheers:

gameseven07

April 22nd, 2008, 09:08 PM

so what you're saying is they'll present it and start working on it but it won't get finished in time?

now that is a possibility

gameseven07

April 22nd, 2008, 09:44 PM

I've just learned that the drilling of core samples not only happened outside the Stadium, they drilled for core samples inside the stadium also. Results in 4 to 7 days.

jlousa

April 22nd, 2008, 10:39 PM

I didn't say that, what I said is that there is no way they could finish before the olympics.

Vanlaw

April 22nd, 2008, 11:18 PM

Double porterhouse steak will be even tastier when I'm not paying for it. :cheers:

Ya!!!!!! The big 48 oz'er at Mortons - manager carves it tableside for you. Wish I had been in on the bet too!

gameseven07

April 22nd, 2008, 11:20 PM

so what exactly was the wording of the bet?

jlousa

April 23rd, 2008, 12:27 AM

Look up the post. you can't post on SSP but can still view them

gameseven07

April 23rd, 2008, 12:34 AM

A reporter filed a Request for info on BC Place under the

Freedom of Information Act

and he got back 13 blanked out pages. What's going on?

jlousa

April 23rd, 2008, 01:45 AM

Maybe the guy in the orange vest forgot to change the toner cartridge in the copier.

The bet is there would be no retractable roof in time for the olympics.

gameseven07

April 23rd, 2008, 02:13 AM

Towerguy are you willing to bet your account here?
If BC place gets a retractable roof I'll leave if they don't you leave?
A Bet is worthless if nothing is on the line.

Post 432. Those were your words JLousa.

Ravman

April 23rd, 2008, 02:55 AM

u guys are very funny speculating about whats going to happen to the stadium lol

jlousa

April 23rd, 2008, 03:17 AM

So are you agreeing to leave if there isn't a retractable roof in time for the olympics? I'm willing to let you off with the steak in that case. :banana:

If we get a new bubble are you going to claim it's a retractable? it just takes ~12 guys a few of weeks to remove the roof and then another few weeks to put it back up. :cheers:

gameseven07

April 23rd, 2008, 03:42 PM

They drilled holes INSIDE the Stadium also into the Stadium floor

gameseven07

April 23rd, 2008, 05:02 PM

GLOBAL TV is reporting that the coring returned good results.

Vanlaw

April 23rd, 2008, 05:42 PM

GLOBAL TV is reporting that the coring returned good results.

No - they interviewed a guy from Mud Bay who seemed to indicate that the ground was good to build on. No shit - theres a f'n stadium built there.

gameseven07

April 23rd, 2008, 06:28 PM

Coring is part of the process of pre engineering that Dominion is obligated to do for its client Pavco

Vanlaw

April 23rd, 2008, 07:36 PM

Coring is part of the process of pre engineering that Dominion is obligated to do for its client Pavco

what's you point?

gameseven07

April 23rd, 2008, 08:46 PM

isn't it funny that they're checking to see how solid the ground is when all they're really going to do is throw up another inflatable dome same design as current

oh yes and they're drilling inside the stadium also and drilling test holes right into the stadium floor and the reason for that as JLousa points out is that after 2010 they'll be building office towers inside the dome, preferably not higher than 190 feet so that these new office towers will all nicely fit under the dome when fully inflated

jlousa

April 23rd, 2008, 08:58 PM

Office towers inside the dome? Wow can you show me the post where I wrote that??? :nuts:
Maybe they are boring holes to see if they discover oil, as the sale of the excess land won't raise them even close to half of what a retractable will cost. :banana:
Where's Cepco.....you were pretty sure on their involvement in this project.

Vanlaw

April 23rd, 2008, 08:58 PM

have you ever heard of due dilligence? perhaps they are checking so that pavco can give proper assessments on all options. Just because they're digging, doesnt mean a choice has been made.

(this is in response to G707 last comment, not jlousas)

gameseven07

April 25th, 2008, 05:39 AM

jlousa your economic arguments to keep an inflated lid on the dome for another 25 years make no sense and I'm sure glad you're not heading Pavco. You wouldn't last long as their Director.

First off, it is a given that BC Place will lose some convention business to the new Convention Center. Not mainstays like the Home, Auto and Boat shows that clearly need the floor space, but smaller shows that can easily make the move to the new Convention Center.

In light of this reality, a view shared by knowledgeable people in the Government and Pavco, an effort has to be made to make BC Place more competitive in terms of attracting more sporting events to BC Place which is what a Stadium is best suited for in the first place.

What do you think they put 60,000 seats in that building for, to watch a Clairol convention with 50 ladies walking around on the floor finding out ways to make themselves look more pretty for their husbands?

A Retractable Roof will attract possibly the Whitecaps (certainly an MLS franchise until their new Stadium is built), and certainly attract more international soccer friendlies, rugby matches, and mabey even an Outdoor Hockey Classic.

You argue that the Government won't put one more penny into new infrastructure for the Stadium that can't be recouped through the sale of lands around the Stadium.

You have evidence of that point of view? A quote from the Premier or Stan Hagen on that?

Why do you think the Government even blue skied the thought of a Retractable Roof last summer if they were of the opinion that it wasn't worth another penny to invest in BC Place?

If the Provincial Government was of the view that BC Place was a lost cause, we would've gotten those indications by now and Cabinet wouldn't have gotten David Podmore to find solutions for the Roof.

A solution for the Roof isn't putting the same thing up there again. That's not a solution to anything.

So jlousa, what proposals would you make to the Premier to make BC Place Stadium more economically viable and to attract new business to the Stadium in light of the opening of the new Convention Center?

Be specific.

gameseven07

April 25th, 2008, 03:45 PM

Stadium plays the waiting game
VANCOUVER/CKNW(AM980)

4/25/2008

Replacing the roof with a retractable top could cost upwards of 150-million dollars, but Tourism and Sport Minister Stan Hagen says he still hasn't received any recommendations, "I'm awaiting that report and that report will go to Government and we'll make a decision."

"Have you been given any indication as to when that's coming."

"Yeah, I think sooner rather than later."

"How soon?"

"Within a week..within two weeks? I mean this is a very complicated project and I want them to do the due diligence that they need to do and I know they'll do that."

Hagen says there's no rush to make a decision in time for the 2010 Olympics, but the next Cabinet meeting is on Wednesday, April 30th.

nova9

April 25th, 2008, 04:21 PM

yawn. i feel like i'm stuck in a time loop - same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again from you. sheesh.

gameseven07

April 25th, 2008, 04:32 PM

Retractable roof for B.C. Place would be great, but you better do it fast
By columnist Michael Smyth, The Province
Published: Friday, April 25, 2008
The warm weather may be slow in arriving, but it'll soon be time to put the top down on the old convertible for some fun in the sun. But does the same go for shabby old B.C. Place?

The Gordon Campbell government is deciding what kind of new roof the stadium will get in time for the Olympics - and speculation is rampant they could opt for a snazzy retractable model.

Any fan who's spent a gorgeous, sunny day sitting inside for a Lions game would love the option to peel back the roof. But is it possible to put a retractable roof on B.C. Place in time for the 2010 opening ceremonies? And how much would it cost B.C. taxpayers?

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Font:****"Less than $100 million," insists an enthusiastic Cyril Silberman, owner of one of North America's leading designers of lightweight, retractable stadium roofs. He dismisses earlier cost projections of $150 million to $200 million. "It's a doable project and it could be done in 24 months at a reasonable cost, but only if they got moving on it very soon."

"Very soon" is clearly the timetable David Podmore is working under. The chairman of the B.C. Pavilion Corp. - the government agency that runs B.C. Place - confirms a report and recommendation will soon go to cabinet for a decision.

"We've been conducting a very thorough review, investigating all of the alternatives, and our recommendation will be ready in the next few weeks," Podmore told me.

He wouldn't tip his hand about which way the corporation is leaning, but he makes no secret he personally likes the retractable option.

"I think it would be wonderful," he said. "It would give the stadium a lot more utility. We could hold a wider range of events. It would be a more comfortable environment for people. And it would be more energy efficient."

Podmore said B.C. Place spends $1.4 million on electricity every year just to keep the Teflon bubble inflated. And even then it can still be ripped apart in foul weather, as everyone saw last year.

But is a retractable roof feasible and could it be built on time?

Critics point out the walls of B.C. Place were designed to support a fabric roof. Could that be why Mud Bay Drilling of Surrey is taking soil samples outside the stadium right now, to see if the ground could support the exoskeleton needed for a new retractable roof?

"Well, I suppose that could be the reason," Mud Bay's Gordon Gibbons told me. "They didn't tell us why they wanted the drilling done. They want to test the stability of the soil for some reason."

Silberman, owner of Uni-Systems of Minneapolis, Minn., said testing soil stability would be a precursor to anchoring cables that would tether down a retractable fabric roof - a design his company specializes in.

Birdair, the manufacturer of the existing B.C. Place roof, discussed retractable options for the stadium with his company some time ago, but Silberman says no one from the B.C. government has contacted him directly.

"I wish they would," he said. "There are some exciting North American options out there for B.C. Place, but the jungle drums say a German company has the inside track."

The bottom line: A retractable roof would be awesome for B.C. Place and a wonderful new asset for the city. But whatever the government decides, they better decide quickly. Any construction delays at this late date could be disastrous for the 2010 opening ceremonies.

jlousa

April 25th, 2008, 06:03 PM

*l* Do you have any idea what the costs of using the new convention centre are?
The new convention centre is not going to steal any business from BC place, first it's not even close to big enough, and the costs are way way more expensive. It was built for conventions, not trade shows.

D J M K

April 25th, 2008, 06:29 PM

Less than $100 million," insists an enthusiastic Cyril Silberman, owner of one of North America's leading designers of lightweight, retractable stadium roofs. He dismisses earlier cost projections of $150 million to $200 million. "It's a doable project and it could be done in 24 months at a reasonable cost, but only if they got moving on it very soon."

i guess reasonable costs depends on your point of view. i hear that children's hospital is trying to raise money, and there are one or two homeless people in vancouver....

gameseven07

April 26th, 2008, 02:16 AM

so jlousa if it's gonna cost less than $ 100 million, then that should be covered by the sale of the lands around the stadium. you already said the lands would fetch about $ 75 million

sounds like a done deal to me

jlousa

April 26th, 2008, 03:06 AM

*l* even if they could sell fetch $75 Million, which I doubt, that would take a very favorable rezoning by the city which isn't even due till the fall. Since Fransisco Aquillini couldn't make the GM place office tower work with free land I can't imagine a line up of people coughing up big bucks for that property, as it's only suitable for office space and not residential.

You are only reading what you want to read, you have one company claiming it would take a min of 21 months without hiccups, another one saying it would take at least 24months. Yet here we are with 18months until handover for vanoc, no recommendations made to the government yet. No city rezoning for months yet on the excess land. But you're still the optimist. I'll give you credit for that.

Before you say the government could make it happen if they have the will, well let me know how the Robson St Square Clamshell turned out, that was one of Gordon Campbell's personal projects. It's now shelved, and that would've had more use and been much cheaper.

deasine

April 26th, 2008, 03:36 AM

Before you say the government could make it happen if they have the will, well let me know how the Robson St Square Clamshell turned out, that was one of Gordon Campbell's personal projects. It's now shelved, and that would've had more use and been much cheaper.

I know dammit... I watched CTV last night and I was like NOOOO... =/

gameseven07

April 26th, 2008, 03:57 AM

Except that UniSystems knows what the hell they're talking about; they built the Retractable roofs on Reliant Stadium in Houston and Lucas Oil Field in Indianapolis

and they're doing the one on BC Place too. Why shouldn't Cyril Silberman be enthusiastic about that?

jlousa

April 26th, 2008, 06:49 PM

Is uni-systems donating the roof? because as far as I know without money they won't build it, and there has been no funding approved yet.

gameseven07

April 26th, 2008, 09:25 PM

What the hell does your stupid Robson Clamshell analogy have to do with all of this? What a ridiculous comparison! Comparing a 60,000 seat Stadium that two billion people will have their eyes on for the Opening Ceremonies to some Robson Clamshell!

So Francesco Aquilini pulled out of the GM Tower project cause he has wet feet now. Well like I feel sorry for him.

I'm playing my harp and I have a box of kleenexes beside me.

Cancel BC Place's Rezoning application because of that, furthermore halt any further construction. The City is under orders to stop all future development cause Aquilini has cold feet now.

Consider mabey with all the money he's losing now that his amazing hockey team isn't in the playoffs he may be feeling in a bit of a pinch? Could be worried about losing some of his corporate clients?

Not to mention his B.C. Supreme Court legal battle trying to evict his massage parlour tenant at 1094 Richards must be costing him a few bucks.

Cabinet will approve the funding for Retrofitting of BC Place regardless of any theories of how much money they may or may not get out of that Rezoning.

Funding can only be approved at a Cabinet meeting and the next Cabinet meeting is Wednesday.

So what you're suggesting is Cabinet will approve funding, the City will vote down the Rezoning, the Government won't get their $ 100 million from selling off the lands around the Stadium, and the Roof project will be cancelled?

Government doesn't operate that way and you know that. You also know that a decision has to be made before October and contracts have to be signed before October.

In fact a decision has to be made now and contracts have to be signed now, not wait till October.

What are they going to do, leave the Stadium in limbo until the City gets around to a hearing?

And if the City wants to go on a Powertrip and try to intimidate the Government by threatening to vote down the Rezoning, and if they actually do vote down the Rezoning application, then the next time the Mayor holds his hands out to the Provincial Government asking for funding for more Police officers, fixing up the roads and the schools, more provincial money or this and that and the next thing...

the Premier will promptly and without reservation tell the Mayor where to go.

The City is already feeling the heat over the Whitecaps situation. I assure you the City will NOT want to increase the anger level by voting down the Rezoning application and putting a new Roof for the Stadium in limbo just because the Mayor wants to throw his weight around.

The City needs money from the Province, not the other way around.

So you tell me who is in the drivers seat on this one, Sullivan or Campbell?

I realize you want your steak really badly but your analogy comparing BC Place Stadium to a Robson Clamshell is not rubbing me the right way man

deasine

April 26th, 2008, 10:13 PM

Holy cow, calm down buddy. I would think jlousa brought up the Robson Clamshell roof as a "btw statement," not necessarily comparing the two. Oh and one of the reasons for the canceling of the roof would be because (A) Funding reasons (B) Time constraints.

As jlousa pointed out countless times, he too would want to see a retractable roof as so with many forumers at SSP, but that doesn't mean we will get it, not to mention that the clock is ticking away. If we did go with a retractable roof, the fastest we can start construction is in the fall, leaving only one year and a few months for one entire roof, structural improvements, as well as retrofitting the interiors of the stadium.

I think his plans are steak anymore. Go read the SSP thread.

gameseven07

April 27th, 2008, 03:10 AM

The Roof will be a Retractable. That has already been determined. I have a new source that is confirming this and he ain't no guy in an orange vest.

They're just waiting for the contractors and subcontractors to sign all the documents.

Nothing can be released publicly until all the documents have been signed.

jlousa

April 27th, 2008, 06:02 AM

Is your new source paying for it as well?
Because Pavco does not have that kind of money nor are they authorized to enter into capital spending of that magnitude with BC government consent, which by the way, they do not have yet.

gameseven07

April 27th, 2008, 06:32 AM

Correct. They have agreements in principal with the parties involved. They can only be signed off on if and when Pavco receives the green light from Cabinet.

jlousa

April 27th, 2008, 06:54 AM

So the guy in the orange vest is in the cabinet and he knows how the other cabinet members are going to side with this. Wow I'm speechless. :cheers:

Can you ask your friend what time lunch is served in the legislature mess, I'm in the mood for some steak.:banana:

gameseven07

April 27th, 2008, 07:48 PM

As you can see below the CEO of Uni-Systems does not wear an orange vest.

jlousa you prepared to dismiss what Silberman said about the price tag being no more than $ 100 million?

http://www.uni-systems.com/Company/Employees.aspx

jlousa

April 27th, 2008, 08:54 PM

Acutally I am prepared to dimiss what Uni-systems said. I would be impossible to build a working retractable roof for under $100Million for BC place before the olympics.

If our stadium was a rectangle, built for a retractable roof, in a climate where it didn't snow I would say yes it's possible for $100Million, but that isn't the case now is it?

gameseven07

April 28th, 2008, 05:31 PM

well of course what Uni-systems says to a reporter and what they actually commit to in their formal bid can be two different things

gameseven07

April 28th, 2008, 09:22 PM

so much for the stupid concept of burning a Flame inside a dome:

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/c...0-a5ff0f237156

Alarm bells ring on BC Place retractable roof
Probably biggest gamble of 2010 Games racing against clock
Miro Cernetig, Vancouver Sun
Published: Monday, April 28, 2008
Premier Gordon Campbell wants the retractable roof. So does David Podmore, the construction exec in charge of revamping BC Place Stadium for the Olympics. Hard to blame either of them; our stadium's current top looks like an old bedsheet left in the rain too long.

A new roof that can be opened to let that Olympic flame burn bright for 2010 and the sunshine in during a B.C. Lions game when it's not raining, is no doubt a desirable goal. It will add a whole new life, architectural profile and use (baseball or soccer, anyone?) to Vancouver's aging, domed stadium.

But. But. But.

View Larger Image
BC Place Stadium, seen here before damage was repaired, should have a new retractable roof in time for 2010 Games.
Steve Bosch, Vancouver Sun

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Font:****Putting up that retractable roof over BC Place has got to ring some alarms bells, too.

It is probably the biggest gamble of the 2010 Olympic Games: Get it done right, on time and Podmore gets the gold. Blow it, either through delays or the myriad of engineering complications that come with a $150-million to $200-million re-engineering job, and he's got an Olympic disaster on his hands.

In the international press, we'd go from being depicted as a city preparing a near flawless Games to shades of Athens, where plans for a new structure over an old stadium also created grave concerns within the International Olympic Committee when organizers began running behind schedule.

It could be even worse than that, of course, as Canada has shown. A truly botched job -- always something to consider when deadlines get tight and retrofits that involve old buildings are in play -- and we could be a mini-Montreal, rushing through an Olympic roof that had skyrocketing costs and was a disaster. If you don't think things can go wrong on these big projects, just remember that the cost of the convention centre expansion has now almost doubled, closing in on $1 billion.

So, prudence ought to be the order of the day on this key decision. Any day now, Podmore is expected to deliver his recommendations on BC Place's new roof to the provincial cabinet. At the moment, he's under his own dome of silence. But I'm told the government is expecting he'll come up with a way of doing the retractable roof, putting BC Place into the world's top 10 largest indoor-outdoor stadiums.

But Podmore is a careful guy. First, he knows he's got to make sure BC Place has the structural integrity for the load of a new fixed roof, retractable or not. (Most think it has, given how much concrete is in it). And he's also got to ensure if things do go sideways, there's a face-saving contingency plan.

It turns out he's got a few tricks to ensure that ambitious project wouldn't turn from a dream into a nightmare.

When he first floated the idea of the retractable roof a few months ago to the Vancouver Olympic Organizing Committee, Podmore suggested to the insiders that a new roof could be built over the existing one. That would ensure BC Place would be operational during the 18 months or more of construction, allowing B.C. Lions games and trade shows to continue. Then, once the new roof was completed, the old air-suspended dome would come down.

Alarm bells ring on BC Place retractable roof
Probably biggest gamble of 2010 Games racing against clock
Miro Cernetig, Vancouver Sun
Published: Monday, April 28, 2008
The benefit of this approach wasn't lost on Olympic organizers. Aside from a revamped stadium that could offer open-air ceremonies for 2010, the Olympic planners also would have a guarantee that any logistical snafus wouldn't turn into an international embarrassment. If construction bogs down, the old roof would still be covering BC Place.

Now a half-complete roof over an ugly old dome isn't quite the image Vancouver or Canada wants to present to billions of TV viewers during the Games. But this, too, could be massaged.

Providing those engineering studies show a new roof is possible -- I'd bet on a yes since, as sport business analyst Tom Mayenknecht told me, German stadium engineers are already in town sussing out how to do the job -- there is nothing stopping Podmore from taking a graduated approach to this. Get the retractable roof plan on track, do the designs, arrange the funding and line up the major contractors. Then, if time proves too short or serious engineering problems are encountered, he could easily order that project be delayed until after the Games. Alternatively, it could be partially completed, leaving a sort of doughnut hole over the field until the Olympics are over.

Email to a friend

Printer friendly
Font:****Falling short would be disappointing, but hardly a fiasco. It could even be argued the local economy could use a major infrastructure project after the Olympics, when the economy is likely to cool down.

So if you're making a bet on the newest addition to the Vancouver skyline, I'm told the smart money is on a retractable roof. If David Podmore goes to the provincial cabinet in the next few days with such a plan, odds are he's going to get an immediate message from Premier Campbell: let the Olympic Games re-roofing begin.

Podmore will have about 600 days to get the job done. He will find himself in the first real race of the 2010 Olympics.

Read Miro Cernetig's blog at www.vancouversun.com/blogs

© The Vancouver Sun 2008
previous page 1 2

gameseven07

April 28th, 2008, 09:27 PM

http://communities.canada.com/vancouversun/blogs/politicsandlife/archive/2008/04/27/a-new-retractable-roof-over-over-bc-place-for-the-olympics-bet-on-it.aspx

A new, retractable roof over over BC Place for the Olympics? Bet on it.
Put a balloon over your chimney, turn on the fireplace and then guess what happens? Predictably, that balloon gets bigger and bigger, and will eventually pop. Until it does, all the exhaust floats back into your living room and makes you very hot and probably sick.

This is no science experiment. It's one of the big considerations of the 2010 Olympic Games.

When 2010 rolls around, BC Place Stadium will be the spot where the Olympic cauldron is lit, to burn for 17 days. Or at least that's what organizers hope.

But that's going to be hard to do with a closed stadium, where the turnover of air is minimal. The air inside would get hot and smelly and people could get sick. The seams of the delicate roof would be stressed. They might tear, a true disaster during such a big event. The only option would be a very expensive ventilation system.

The other alternative is to put the flame outside. But that's not good for the TV cameras. The flame is the key symbol of the Olympics and the networks want those "Sports Illustrated" moments of it glowing as they pan to closeups of big crowds, teary-eyed athletes and flags going up as medals are handed out.
So what to do? Well, maybe a new, retractable roof for BC Place Stadium. Read about the politics of the flame, and risks of going for a new retractable roof for our aging stadium, in my column

mr.x

April 28th, 2008, 10:09 PM

correctly posting the entire article

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/columnists/story.html?id=16090156-d57c-446a-a950-a5ff0f237156

Alarm bells ring on BC Place retractable roof
Probably biggest gamble of 2010 Games racing against clock

Miro Cernetig, Vancouver Sun
Published: Monday, April 28, 2008

Premier Gordon Campbell wants the retractable roof. So does David Podmore, the construction exec in charge of revamping BC Place Stadium for the Olympics. Hard to blame either of them; our stadium's current top looks like an old bedsheet left in the rain too long.

A new roof that can be opened to let that Olympic flame burn bright for 2010 and the sunshine in during a B.C. Lions game when it's not raining, is no doubt a desirable goal. It will add a whole new life, architectural profile and use (baseball or soccer, anyone?) to Vancouver's aging, domed stadium.

But. But. But.

Putting up that retractable roof over BC Place has got to ring some alarms bells, too.

It is probably the biggest gamble of the 2010 Olympic Games: Get it done right, on time and Podmore gets the gold. Blow it, either through delays or the myriad of engineering complications that come with a $150-million to $200-million re-engineering job, and he's got an Olympic disaster on his hands.

In the international press, we'd go from being depicted as a city preparing a near flawless Games to shades of Athens, where plans for a new structure over an old stadium also created grave concerns within the International Olympic Committee when organizers began running behind schedule.

It could be even worse than that, of course, as Canada has shown. A truly botched job -- always something to consider when deadlines get tight and retrofits that involve old buildings are in play -- and we could be a mini-Montreal, rushing through an Olympic roof that had skyrocketing costs and was a disaster. If you don't think things can go wrong on these big projects, just remember that the cost of the convention centre expansion has now almost doubled, closing in on $1 billion.

So, prudence ought to be the order of the day on this key decision. Any day now, Podmore is expected to deliver his recommendations on BC Place's new roof to the provincial cabinet. At the moment, he's under his own dome of silence. But I'm told the government is expecting he'll come up with a way of doing the retractable roof, putting BC Place into the world's top 10 largest indoor-outdoor stadiums.

But Podmore is a careful guy. First, he knows he's got to make sure BC Place has the structural integrity for the load of a new fixed roof, retractable or not. (Most think it has, given how much concrete is in it). And he's also got to ensure if things do go sideways, there's a face-saving contingency plan.

It turns out he's got a few tricks to ensure that ambitious project wouldn't turn from a dream into a nightmare.

When he first floated the idea of the retractable roof a few months ago to the Vancouver Olympic Organizing Committee, Podmore suggested to the insiders that a new roof could be built over the existing one. That would ensure BC Place would be operational during the 18 months or more of construction, allowing B.C. Lions games and trade shows to continue. Then, once the new roof was completed, the old air-suspended dome would come down.

The benefit of this approach wasn't lost on Olympic organizers. Aside from a revamped stadium that could offer open-air ceremonies for 2010, the Olympic planners also would have a guarantee that any logistical snafus wouldn't turn into an international embarrassment. If construction bogs down, the old roof would still be covering BC Place.

Now a half-complete roof over an ugly old dome isn't quite the image Vancouver or Canada wants to present to billions of TV viewers during the Games. But this, too, could be massaged.

Providing those engineering studies show a new roof is possible -- I'd bet on a yes since, as sport business analyst Tom Mayenknecht told me, German stadium engineers are already in town sussing out how to do the job -- there is nothing stopping Podmore from taking a graduated approach to this. Get the retractable roof plan on track, do the designs, arrange the funding and line up the major contractors. Then, if time proves too short or serious engineering problems are encountered, he could easily order that project be delayed until after the Games. Alternatively, it could be partially completed, leaving a sort of doughnut hole over the field until the Olympics are over.

Falling short would be disappointing, but hardly a fiasco. It could even be argued the local economy could use a major infrastructure project after the Olympics, when the economy is likely to cool down.

So if you're making a bet on the newest addition to the Vancouver skyline, I'm told the smart money is on a retractable roof. If David Podmore goes to the provincial cabinet in the next few days with such a plan, odds are he's going to get an immediate message from Premier Campbell: let the Olympic Games re-roofing begin.

Podmore will have about 600 days to get the job done. He will find himself in the first real race of the 2010 Olympics.