Continuing my morning tour of Camden Market, the locks, and the surrounding streets ...

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By now it was time to head to Chinatown for a forum meet with a few Hong Kong forumers living in London. Quite nice to see the blue skies, isn't it?

More photos on my website. I've added some new sections from my 2007 autumn visit : http://www.globalphotos.org/london.htm

Part 1 - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=538449
Part 2 - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=539469
Part 3 - http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=591835

london is out of date, it looks like a 3 world city

Thats really generalising. Majority of london is not in this state.

fantasyland.

l love it :cheers:

How much of Camden is now burnt?

How much of Camden is now burnt?

Fire funds to help Camden traders

Traders affected by the Camden Market fire in February are set to receive £750,000 of financial help.

The London Development Agency (LDA) has set up a £250,000 recovery fund for traders hit by the north London blaze, which damaged 90 market stalls.

Traders from the Canal Street market will also benefit from an additional £500,000 fund set up by markets owner Camden Market Holdings (CMH).

Six shops and the Hawley Arms pub also suffered severe damage in the fire.

'Far-reaching benefit'

The LDA's recovery fund will provide business grants and fund a publicity campaign to encourage people to return to the four markets which remain open for business.

Camden council leader Keith Moffitt said: "This is great news for the traders affected and Camden Town as a whole.

"We have been working closely with all the agencies involved to make sure the kind of support we offer has a lasting and far-reaching benefit."

CMH's separate fund will help Canal Street traders re-establish their businesses.

It was set up after the market owner pledged to give £2 for every £1 granted by the LDA.

The 9 February blaze was centred around Camden Canal Market, where a number of market stalls caught alight. A total of 35 stalls were badly damaged.

Several residents had to be evacuated from houses and flats to a rest centre at a nearby sports centre, but no injuries were reported.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/england/london/7280098.stm

Published: 2008/03/05 18:51:50 GMT

london is out of date, it looks like a 3 world city

I think you are some what missing the point. If you want shiney glass boxes then london has lots of that all over the place. If you spend just a few minutes on the London threads you will see some very moden buildings in some very moden areas.. try Canary Wharf for example.

But that is why it is so important to keep Camden as it is. It makes Camden special, it is called 'character' and I hope Camden never changes. In fact I think it is important to fight to keep the ultra moden buildings out of Camden.

I have no idea what it is like after the fire. I only hope that any rebuilding retains the character of the place...

Thank you for the tour.I was in London in 1994 and two of my friends showed me Camden , the market and all the grit , I loved it. Bringing back memories.

I think you are some what missing the point. If you want shiney glass boxes then london has lots of that all over the place. If you spend just a few minutes on the London threads you will see some very moden buildings in some very moden areas.. try Canary Wharf for example.


As a student, I've been living in london for 4 years. I can honestly tell you that I didn't find any "moden buildings" here. of course you can insist Canary Wharf is modern and futuristic, as long as you have victorian eyes and appreciate buildings by european standard

except the West End and Kensington,the city as a whole looks grey and ugly, particularly the east part, proletarian slums are growing every where. Try to walk on the street of east london, you might have a feeling that you live in the capital of Kenya

^^ Oh Please :| Yeah right, Canary isn't modern, nor is the Gherkin, The Lloyds Building, The Jubliee Line Extension, etc etc.

^^ Oh Please :| Yeah right, Canary isn't modern, nor is the Gherkin, The Lloyds Building, The Jubliee Line Extension, etc etc.

My london friend, i didn't mean to offend you. Lloyds building was the most cutting edge building when it was built in the 1970s, but that is 30 years ago, its time has gone forever. i can see you are pround of the Gherkin, but if it was built in dubai, would people even notice it? also, Jubliee line extension is nothing special, just have a look at beijing, any tube line under construction there easily dwarfs it.

everyone knows Britain was a great country and london was the greatest city in the world 100 years ago, but time has changed. if people just stay in outdated europe and don't open their eyes to the outside world, they are no different from frogs in a well, right?

Great pics, hk, I really like the character of that neighborhood. I have a minor, dumb question, though....maybe you or someone from London would know. Some of the funky stores in your pics are very narrow, and it doesn't appear like there's much room for entrances to the residences above the stores. Do residents there have to enter through the stores, or through the back of the building?

Friend of mine was in camden market only a few weeks back while on business in london,said there was an awful smell of piss in the place.

As a student, I've been living in london for 4 years. I can honestly tell you that I didn't find any "moden buildings" here. of course you can insist Canary Wharf is modern and futuristic, as long as you have victorian eyes and appreciate buildings by european standard

except the West End and Kensington,the city as a whole looks grey and ugly, particularly the east part, proletarian slums are growing every where. Try to walk on the street of east london, you might have a feeling that you live in the capital of Kenya

God, how stupid do you sound!

My london friend, i didn't mean to offend you. Lloyds building was the most cutting edge building when it was built in the 1970s, but that is 30 years ago, its time has gone forever. i can see you are pround of the Gherkin, but if it was built in dubai, would people even notice it? also, Jubliee line extension is nothing special, just have a look at beijing, any tube line under construction there easily dwarfs it.

everyone knows Britain was a great country and london was the greatest city in the world 100 years ago, but time has changed. if people just stay in outdated europe and don't open their eyes to the outside world, they are no different from frogs in a well, right?

You didn't offend me at all - but if you think London has no modern buildings then you are obviously walking around with your eyes closed.

Are you actually suggesting that London should demolish all its history and go down the road of creating garish, cheap, unsustainable 'modern' buildings like they are doing in Dubai and Beijing or Shanghai???? If this is what you were expecting from London then perhaps it wasn't the best place to come and study for 4 years.

And Europe is far from outdated my friend - just look at some of the skyscraper proposals for London, or Paris - and you will see that the vast majority of them will wipe the floor with anything in Dubai or China when it comes to quality and design (apologies for sounding arrogant - but mabey you should open your eyes to what is going on inside 'out-dated' europe, my friend)

My london friend, i didn't mean to offend you. Lloyds building was the most cutting edge building when it was built in the 1970s, but that is 30 years ago, its time has gone forever. i can see you are pround of the Gherkin, but if it was built in dubai, would people even notice it? also, Jubliee line extension is nothing special, just have a look at beijing, any tube line under construction there easily dwarfs it.

everyone knows Britain was a great country and london was the greatest city in the world 100 years ago, but time has changed. if people just stay in outdated europe and don't open their eyes to the outside world, they are no different from frogs in a well, right?

:lol: I'm not from London, but visit there enough to realize what you are saying is just hilarious.

For a start, I would guess you are not from Europe and seem to have a lack of appreciation of history. Modern buildings are great, and London, like any place is building them. But London, like any other city in the world should preserve their beautiful historical architecture as well. A city does need to change, but it should also look after what it already has.

If you had your way, would London, Paris and Rome be levelled to make way for endless bland highrises?

But this is how I think it really is... You come from maybe (I'm just guessing here) somewhere in Asia, possibly China. I would also guess that you are a student now living in the UK and this is your first time away from home for a long period of time.

I am also guessing that although you have fun in London, and have made some friends, many are from your own home country, and in many ways, you miss home.

Home, where you come from... possibly China, is now dominated by recently built modern buildings and this is very different to what you experience in the UK. Although there is great history in China, most of the cities now are dominated not by their historical architecture, but by modern highrises. And no major city had history in shear size as London.

So, I think it's the fact that your homesick that makes you see so much around you in negative light, and your own home country in such glowing light.

Am I correct so far? Maybe not, so please forgive me if I am wrong. However, if I am right, I predict this... Your homesickness will get stronger and stronger and you will be glad when you finally get home to China. At first, it will be like a honeymoon. You will be back with your friends, back with your family, and back with your cherished modern buildings. But after a year or so, you will start to tire of these buildings and will fondly remember the historical streets you now find so tired and depressing.

Now here is my recommendation. Start to appreciate what there is around you. Appreciate that it is different to the city you are from in Asia. You don't want it to be the same, do you? Your time in London is short, and soon you will be back home, so make the most of your time there.

You didn't offend me at all - but if you think London has no modern buildings then you are obviously walking around with your eyes closed.

Are you actually suggesting that London should demolish all its history and go down the road of creating garish, cheap, unsustainable 'modern' buildings like they are doing in Dubai and Beijing or Shanghai???? If this is what you were expecting from London then perhaps it wasn't the best place to come and study for 4 years.

And Europe is far from outdated my friend - just look at some of the skyscraper proposals for London, or Paris - and you will see that the vast majority of them will wipe the floor with anything in Dubai or China when it comes to quality and design (apologies for sounding arrogant - but mabey you should open your eyes to what is going on inside 'out-dated' europe, my friend)



My london friend, that's a good argument. I also admire london for its historical buildings, they are beautiful,especially Kingsinton, it is probably the most posh residencial area in the world. it's a good thing to preseve histrorical buildings for this reason. But people also like to enjoy life in modern spaces, we are talking about skyscrapers here, this is a forum exclusively for highrises and modern architctures. so when it comes to modern architectures, I would say there is nothing in london can be viewed as "world class". With a few exception, london's highrise after the WAR were terribly designed,these ugly monsters have undermined london's reputation as a gorgeous historical city. only after 1990s, some good looking towers began to grow in this city.

having been living in london for 4 years, i know this city better than lots of locals. I've seen all london's skyscaper proposals, none of them are impressvie,including the SHARD,this is what i can honestly say. Competing with asian or US cities for "modern", london would definitely lose the game. So I guess it is more wise for london to keep its own characteristic and continue gaining its fame by historical buildings,rather than skyscrapers.

by the way, my london friend, as i see from you travel list, you are quite eurocentric, aren't you? london, dublin, prague....why not go to other parts of the world, to look at those "garish, cheap, unsustainable 'modern' buildings" in shanghai or dubai? perhaps you will feel more pround of london's achivement in modernization then.

Oh my god! You really are a dummy!

by the way, my london friend, as i see from you travel list, you are quite eurocentric, aren't you? london, dublin, prague....why not go to other parts of the world, to look at those "garish, cheap, unsustainable 'modern' buildings" in shanghai or dubai? perhaps you will feel more pround of london's achivement in modernization then.

Err, budgetary and time constraints have held me back from travelling as excessively as i would like....as a student you will understand how hard it is to go jet setting half way around the world.

I don't understand the point you are trying to make, London has historic buildings (you you have just commended) and is widely regarded has having world class examples of modern architecture (despite your personal opinion).

Why should London try to copy Asian or American cities??? :dunno: - this is not what London/Europe is all about. You seem to be arguing for all european cities to become filled with the same homogeneous 'modern' buildings that exist in Shanghai or Dubai. What most people want is a healthy mix of old and new buildings - which is something severely lacking in the cities you seem to favour. Its a different way of doing things, you can keep your cities filled only with 'modern' glass and stainless steel buildings, and we will keep our mix of history and high quality new buildings.

Anyway, i'm bored of this argument now.

Back to the fantastic pics of Camden......

:lol: I'm not from London, but visit there enough to realize what you are saying is just hilarious.

For a start, I would guess you are not from Europe and seem to have a lack of appreciation of history. Modern buildings are great, and London, like any place is building them. But London, like any other city in the world should preserve their beautiful historical architecture as well. A city does need to change, but it should also look after what it already has.

If you had your way, would London, Paris and Rome be levelled to make way for endless bland highrises?

But this is how I think it really is... You come from maybe (I'm just guessing here) somewhere in Asia, possibly China. I would also guess that you are a student now living in the UK and this is your first time away from home for a long period of time.

I am also guessing that although you have fun in London, and have made some friends, many are from your own home country, and in many ways, you miss home.

Home, where you come from... possibly China, is now dominated by recently built modern buildings and this is very different to what you experience in the UK. Although there is great history in China, most of the cities now are dominated not by their historical architecture, but by modern highrises. And no major city had history in shear size as London.

So, I think it's the fact that your homesick that makes you see so much around you in negative light, and your own home country in such glowing light.

Am I correct so far? Maybe not, so please forgive me if I am wrong. However, if I am right, I predict this... Your homesickness will get stronger and stronger and you will be glad when you finally get home to China. At first, it will be like a honeymoon. You will be back with your friends, back with your family, and back with your cherished modern buildings. But after a year or so, you will start to tire of these buildings and will fondly remember the historical streets you now find so tired and depressing.

Now here is my recommendation. Start to appreciate what there is around you. Appreciate that it is different to the city you are from in Asia. You don't want it to be the same, do you? Your time in London is short, and soon you will be back home, so make the most of your time there.


Thank you for you comment, I agree most of what you said, mabybe I exaggerated london's backwardness, but i still hold a view that London, Britain and even the whole Europe is declining and becoming "outdated" quietly.

when I said "outdated", it doesn't only refer to the buildings, I also mean technology, economic progress,and people's ambitions. In these respects Europe doesn't have the leading edge over other countries any more, as it did in 1930s. but it seems that people here are still more or less eurocentric, few realize or care about the danger of being left behind, just like some londoners who are pround of Canary Wharf's skyline, they didn't know it was actually second or third world class.

Of course you can say Canary Wharf is the world's number one financial cerntre, you can say skyscapers is not a symble of prosperity, and tons of modern buildings in beijing doesn't necessarily mean it has transformed into a modern city. But why are people fuss about skyscapers and modern designs on this forum?

Britain is among top countries in Europe, so the trend of declining is still not that obvious. Look at Italy, look at Spain, they were once great empires, but now "sickman of Europe". Will Britan, France or Germany follow the steps? no body can predict, but people tend to judge things by want they see at first sight, as I've been always believing, the future sometimes lies in the skylines.

I have read through all the posting on this thread and well... what can i say. I think London is rather special and trust me... I have traveled a lot. A hell of a lot. There are numerous slums in London, just take the light railway from the city to Canary Wharf and you will seem some, but then there are slums in just about any city. There are lots of old and well worn parts of London as well there should be, London is a very old city. The ridiculous road lay out in London City is down to the city's evolution and not design.

The term "Modern" is open to interpretation so lets not waste time on agreeing what is and is not modern about London... and don’t turn this into a debate about weather the UK and the rest of Europe is in decline, we are talking about buildings and architecture, not Global finance and politics.

This thread should be about Camden, which IMO is one of the places that makes London special. They very very last thing that Camden needs is modernizing. I hope that what ever rebuilding takes place after the fire looks exactly the same as the pictures posted.

Thank you for you comment, I agree most of what you said, mabybe I exaggerated london's backwardness, but i still hold a view that London, Britain and even the whole Europe is declining and becoming "outdated" quietly.

I simply cannot agree with this. I have been to Asia, and yes, there are many wonderful examples of modernity, but it is not all like this. Even Japan there are many examples where I found systems more advanced in Europe. But of cause there were also many things the other way around.

Europe is certainly not declining. If anything, it is going through a renaissance right now, architecturally and artistically.


when I said "outdated", it doesn't only refer to the buildings, I also mean technology, economic progress,and people's ambitions. In these respects Europe doesn't have the leading edge over other countries any more, as it did in 1930s. but it seems that people here are still more or less eurocentric, few realize or care about the danger of being left behind, just like some londoners who are pround of Canary Wharf's skyline, they didn't know it was actually second or third world class.

As I have said, I have been to Asia, and to be honest, It didn't come across as a great modern place. Yes, there are far more modern buildings than say London, but much of this is to do with most parts of Asia finally reaching some level of economic growth where it has suddenly required a large number of new constructions.

But new doesn't always mean good. The far majority of high rise buildings in Shanghai are horrid apartment buildings, row after row after row. What benefit does this have over the Victoria row house which has it's own garden? It is certainly not attractive modernity.

Now, if you were to take the top modern buildings of Shanghai and London, I do suspect that London will be able to match anything from Shanghai. The buildings will not be as tall, but that is simply a cultural decision in planning committees in London, where tall skyscrapers are still not wanted by many people. But for quality modern developments, the sort of buildings that win prizes or turn heads, I am sure London will be able to match Shanghai pretty well.

And then when all that is done, in between these are the endless number of beautiful historical buildings that exist.


Of course you can say Canary Wharf is the world's number one financial cerntre, you can say skyscapers is not a symble of prosperity, and tons of modern buildings in beijing doesn't necessarily mean it has transformed into a modern city. But why are people fuss about skyscapers and modern designs on this forum?

Keep in mind that this forum is for a small group of highrise fans. Most people don't care a damn, and most people I know (by a long shot) would rather live in a lowrise or house than in a prefab generically designed highrise.


Britain is among top countries in Europe, so the trend of declining is still not that obvious. Look at Italy, look at Spain, they were once great empires, but now "sickman of Europe".


Again, this is a little odd. If Spain is a sick country, then you obviously havn't been there, or kept your eyes closed. Barcelona is considered by architects are a leading city in modern design. Have you seen the amazing constructions in Valencia?


Will Britan, France or Germany follow the steps? no body can predict, but people tend to judge things by want they see at first sight, as I've been always believing, the future sometimes lies in the skylines.

I beg to differ. I love skylines, but I also demand that they be of high quality. Quantity is very different to quality.

Great pics, hk, I really like the character of that neighborhood. I have a minor, dumb question, though....maybe you or someone from London would know. Some of the funky stores in your pics are very narrow, and it doesn't appear like there's much room for entrances to the residences above the stores. Do residents there have to enter through the stores, or through the back of the building?

Usually there are entranced between the shops, but they are normally somewhat integrated into the shop-front, so can be a bit hard to spot unless you are looking out for them.

If there is no front entrance, then there will be an alleyway or mews at the rear of the shops that allows access to the residential flats above

:)

^^ I see, makes sense, thanks for the info. I really loved seeing those "mews" in London when I was there....it made for really interesting streetscapes. I was surprised to find that those were where the horses were kept....and now the homes there are probably worth millions! :)

I've seen all london's skyscaper proposals, none of them are impressvie,including the SHARD,this is what i can honestly say.

I can honestly say that you have no idea what you´re talking about. What an utterly ridiculous statement.

Competing with asian or US cities for "modern", london would definitely lose the game.

Yep, Houston must be really awesome to walk around.

Just because London isn´t just steel and glass with nothing to explore it doesn´t mean it isn´t a modern city. Most American cities have an ancient public transport system compared to London. And the greatest America cities (NYC, San Fran etc) are also the oldest ones.

As far as Asian cities go, what are you talking about? You don´t like slums? Asia isn´t really the place to be then is it? Yes Shanghai has some nice skyscrapers surrounded by modern commie blocks and extremely polluted air, gigantic grey highways etc, I fail to see how London loses to this..


Anyway, nice pictures :)

I've seen all london's skyscaper proposals, none of them are impressvie,including the SHARD,this is what i can honestly say.

I can honestly say that you have no idea what you´re talking about. What an utterly ridiculous statement.

Competing with asian or US cities for "modern", london would definitely lose the game.

Just because London isn´t just steel and glass with nothing to explore it doesn´t mean it isn´t a modern city. Most American cities have an ancient public transport system compared to London. And the greatest America cities (NYC, San Fran etc) are also the oldest ones.

As far as Asian cities go, what are you talking about? You don´t like slums? Asia isn´t really the place to be then is it? Yes Shanghai has some nice skyscrapers surrounded by modern commie blocks and extremely polluted air, gigantic grey highways etc, but I fail to see how London loses to this..


Anyway, nice pictures :)

CITY VS CITY

How much times have we seen these petty arguments? Just appreciate a city for what it is. A unique, individualistic and edgy city is always better than a safe, clean city with absolutely no character at all. London oozes character from the cracks in its pavements. That's something you can't buy. Those who moan about it's "slums": realize that throughout history, slum life has more or less always played a part in urbanity. If you're going to live in a city, then it's about time you get used to being side-by-side with poor people.

For me, the interesting thing about London is that much of it's character has been crafted down the years from it's own poor inhabitants. Just think, what would London be without it's East End, cockneys and market places? I can't even begin to imagine it. As I say, London does it's business with the rich, but it's heart is always with the poor.

I am one bizarre person who actually happens to like some of London's "slum areas". I grew up in Hackney and went to a shitty school where pupils would throw chairs at teachers and sell crack at lunchbreak. I'm not afraid to walk around the roughest of estates, and i'd rather live in Hackney than among the petrified, bloodsucking vultures of Notting Hill and Hampstead (as much as I do appreciate the architecture of the buildings that they inhabit).

So, if you don't appreciate London, or it just doesn't happen to fit your tastes, then shut up and leave the place rather than hang about moaning as if you haven't got a choice. Please.

Jubliee line extension is nothing special, just have a look at beijing, any tube line under construction there easily dwarfs it.

In terms of what needs to be built, maybe, but Bejing needs to catch up as London already has over 400km of metro lines and over 1000km of rail routes!

In terms of architecture, most Chinese metros look as dull as ditchwater compared to the Jubilee line extension or even the older stations.

In terms of what needs to be built, maybe, but Bejing needs to catch up as London already has over 400km of metro lines and over 1000km of rail routes!

In terms of architecture, most Chinese metros look as dull as ditchwater compared to the Jubilee line extension or even the older stations.

I don't think the rest of the Underground looks anything like the Jubilee Line extension. The older stations have been re-done, but they're still cramped with narrow staircases and a maze of tunnels that don't necessarily connect efficiently at interchanges. There isn't much that can be done to fix that either unless they raze everything and rebuild from scratch.

Functional architecture rules the day. It's public transit.

Howelee, I would much rather live in an old, but democratic country like Britain than a modern, corrupt one like China. It all looks nice, clean and modern on the surface, but once you delve deeper, you will see that very little has changed since Tiananmen Square in 1989.

Howelee, I would much rather live in an old, but democratic country like Britain than a modern, corrupt one like China. It all looks nice, clean and modern on the surface, but once you delve deeper, you will see that very little has changed since Tiananmen Square in 1989.

i can't agree you anymore, but i'm afraid 20 yeras later, the british will have nothing to brag about except their democracy, then you will be able to fully enjoy your right to vote for hypocritical politicians while living in the slum city of LONDON at the age of economic recession

i can't agree you anymore, but i'm afraid 20 yeras later, the british will have nothing to brag about except their democracy, then you will be able to fully enjoy your right to vote for hypocritical politicians while living in the slum city of LONDON at the age of economic recession

Have a nice life Howlee, goodbye.

i can't agree you anymore, but i'm afraid 20 yeras later, the british will have nothing to brag about except their democracy, then you will be able to fully enjoy your right to vote for hypocritical politicians while living in the slum city of LONDON at the age of economic recession

Serisouly wtf? Except democracy? Democracy is one of the most important things in society and life. Even if all Chinese cities were ten times cooler than London China is still a corrupt dictatorship.

Furthermore I find it hilarious that you compare London to a Chinese city and call London a slum!? London is much wealthier, clearner and safer than any of those Chinese cities. Not to mention all the great old (and modern) architecture London boasts. All cities have poor and run-down areas but to label on of the richest and most successful cities in the world as unmodern and slum like is ridiculous.

East London is quite a slum though. It's a whole world different from the West End, and not something I expected to see in a wealthy city. Camden is somewhat of an intermediary - a mix of poor and rich.

I think the word 'Slum' is relative - compare anywhere in the East End with a true slum in South America or Africa, and the East End will look positively delightful.

Sure, the East End is a little dirty, a little rough around the edges...some places are downright ugly and dilapidated. But find me a major world city that doesn't have areas comparable to the East End and i will give you a handsome reward ;).

Democracy is one of the most important things in society and life.


It seems that the Bush administration have not only brainwashed those ill-educated americans but also the citizens of the British Empire.

Well done, Army man, you've accomplished missions of dropping democacy bomb to the people of Iraq and Afghanistan. I hope you next traget will be Russia and China.:gunz:

It seems that the Bush administration have not only brainwashed those ill-educated americans but also the citizens of the British Empire.

Well done, Army man, you've accomplished missions of dropping democacy bomb to the people of Iraq and Afghanistan. I hope you next traget will be Russia and China.:gunz:

You are deluded. First of all I´m not a citizen of the "British Empire". Secondly I´m very much against tyranny but I´m also very much against the whole "war on terrorism" crap and what Bush has done to his own country and to the rest of the world.

I do not believe that wars solve anything but that does not change the fact that China and in some fields Russia as well are undemocratic old school tyrannies.

But now back on topic - London.

i can't agree you anymore, but i'm afraid 20 yeras later, the british will have nothing to brag about except their democracy, then you will be able to fully enjoy your right to vote for hypocritical politicians while living in the slum city of LONDON at the age of economic recession

What on earth makes you think that the economy in the UK and Europe will drop to the level that we all live in slums.

The UK economy is doing very well at the moment. It is much higher on a per capita basis than China.

Secondly, China is still a developing country. Developing country's often have high growth figures because they need to build so much infrastructure. But all previous examples of developing country growths show that once they reach developed status, this slows down and averages out. China will be no different. You are deluding yourself if you think the Chinese economy will continue to grow at it's current growth rate after it becomes a developed nation.

China still has a long way to go. You might speak of slums in London, but they are small compared to the poverty that can be found in parts of China.

China still has a long way to go. You might speak of slums in London, but they are small compared to the poverty that can be found in parts of China.

It's true, many Asian cities have a shiny, modern skyscrapered downtown areas with shanty towns just a few miles away.... and it's much, much, worse than London, it's not even comparable! I don't think East London is a slum in a modern sense of the word, a more precise definition would be a bad neighbourhood or a bunch of bad neighbourhoods.

Nice pictures.

Great pictures! But I remember Camden with more people.

It's true, many Asian cities have a shiny, modern skyscrapered downtown areas with shanty towns just a few miles away.... and it's much, much, worse than London, it's not even comparable! I don't think East London is a slum in a modern sense of the word, a more precise definition would be a bad neighbourhood or a bunch of bad neighbourhoods.

True. And much of the East End that some may describe as slums, are hardly that. Around Brick Lane for instance, looks quite run down, but it is hardly a slum, just gritty. Bankers don't go to slums to dine, and Brick Lane (and the area's around) are teaming with city high flyers eating out, amongst of cause people from all over London.

A slum is a seriously bad place which is usually too dangerous for the average citizen to visit.

By the way. People should check some of the house prices in these so called slums of London.

Great pictures! But I remember Camden with more people.

Sunday is the busiest day from my experience. Then, there are often so many people that they spill onto the streets causing all sorts of traffic problems.

^^ That's great. My city (Ljubljana) is usually deserted on Sundays. :ohno:

As a student, I've been living in london for 4 years. I can honestly tell you that I didn't find any "moden buildings" here. of course you can insist Canary Wharf is modern and futuristic, as long as you have victorian eyes and appreciate buildings by european standard

except the West End and Kensington,the city as a whole looks grey and ugly, particularly the east part, proletarian slums are growing every where. Try to walk on the street of east london, you might have a feeling that you live in the capital of Kenya

May I ask why on earth you chose to study at one of London's many world class educational facilities if you detest the place so much? Its bizarre that a third world city like London can attract international students like yourself from gleaming metropolises in Asia. Might I also add, that as a student I lived in Mile end which is pretty much the heart of the historic East end and if you think they are slums comparable to Asian slums then you really must not have been there! For starters a house or flat to buy in this area would set you back a few hundred grand!



Anyway... I love camden, the best thing about it is the range of food you can get on the markets absolutely delicious!

I did take these on a Sunday.

Camden has less people in it now, the new market as the place to be is Brick Lane, and maybe Spitalfields market next door - thats where you see the latest designs, streetwear and fads that Camden unfairly still takes the moniker for. Camden is passe, haunt of tourists and cybergoths stuck in the 1990s, but still utterly unique and gritty.

*sigh* oh I do love Camden, the place where I mostly hang around with my friends, I haven't been back since the fire though, when I heard the news I felt like crying, lol (not really) but yeah, it's one of those places which people fall in love with, despite the grit and dereliction...that's what's special about it.

Thanks for those wonderful photos my good sir, hats off to you ;)

I don't think the rest of the Underground looks anything like the Jubilee Line extension.

I didn't say that. He said that it was "not that special" and I disagree with him.

The older stations have been re-done, but they're still cramped with narrow staircases and a maze of tunnels that don't necessarily connect efficiently at interchanges.

That's what makes them "unique" and "special", it is cramped, and the cramped Victorian-ness is what gives it it's atmosphere. Most of the Tube is far more aesthetically pleasing than Chinese Metros as well IMO.

Functional architecture rules the day.

No it doesn't. Not here anyway, most new architecture on public transport is more bold these days.

I really like Camden the way it is. It has an atmosphere that can only be found there.

Great pictures.