Read from Edgedaily...not remember the date:bash:
Any confirmations.

Yep! Saw it in the news. They will be layed along around Chow Kit, Petaling Street and if not mistaken Masjid India. Lets keep our mayor :D (though probably KL will lose lotsa money pasal bayar saman from those ppl affected by the recent flood)

i never heard of it. more news please???

I read from Singapore newspaper also... but I need to scan it before i can post...

Originally posted by Magician

I read from Singapore newspaper also... but I need to scan it before i can post...

no need to scan lah. i lazy to read. unless got pics. tell me about it cukup dah

To cost RM1billion! Sure hi-tech look one! :cool:

From NST
http://www.emedia.com.my/Current_News/NST/Tuesday/National/20030909080910/Article/

KL to have tram link for four areas
Tan Choe Choe

KUALA LUMPUR, Sept 8: In an attempt to reduce traffic congestion in the city centre, City Hall today announced it is planning to introduce a tram service to connect four popular areas.

Datuk Bandar Datuk Mohmad Shaid Mohd Taufek said the idea had been mooted because the unlinked light rail transit and monorail stations presented a problem to travellers.

"Since the stations are not linked, the public have to take buses from one station to another," said Mohmad Shaid, adding that the tram service might also divert travellers from popular areas to unpopular ones. He said City Hall was conducting a preliminary study on the feasibility of providing the trams which would serve Chow Kit, Kampung Baru, Jalan Tuanku Abdul Rahman and Jalan Petaling. "The technology we have in mind is the newest one-wheel tram from Germany, and we are studying the routes to avoid disruption to traffic flow," he said.

He said the cost of providing the service would be about RM1 billion.

He was speaking at the first annual National Forum on City Development jointly organised by City Hall, Real Estate and Housing Developers Association of Malaysia (Rehda) and the Asian Strategy and Leadership Institute at Shangri-La Hotel today.

Themed "Balancing Development, Sustaining Growth", the one-day forum intended to explore ways to encourage a balanced and sustainable city development.

In his keynote address at the opening of the forum, Mohmad Shaid spoke about "Kuala Lumpur in the 21st Century: Challenges and Op-portunities".

"Being the premier city and capital of the nation, it is our aspiration that Kuala Lumpur be a world-class city and to achieve this, it must not only be economically developed, but should also be able to meet the social, spiritual and cultural needs of its people." He reiterated the five visions outlined in the Draft Kuala Lumpur Structure Plan 2020 (KL20). They are enhancing Kuala Lumpur as an international and financial centre, creating an efficient and equitable city structure benefiting all residents, enhancing the city's living environment, devising a distinctive Kuala Lumpur image, and building an efficient and effective method of city governance.

When asked how he would ensure that the policies of the plan were implemented, he said City Hall had formed the Kuala Lumpur Structure Plan Policy Implementation Committee.

"As for increasing the efficiency of City Hall's 9,000-strong staff, it will involve changes in their work culture." He said the KL20 plan should be gazetted by December, adding the implementation committee was having weekly meetings with related town planners.

. "The technology we have in mind is the newest one-wheel tram from Germany, and we are studying the routes to avoid disruption to traffic flow," he said.

THIS ONE THEN! Why not made in Malaysia like the monorail? ;)
http://public-transport.net/bim/Germany/Mainz/mai_pic/8012_55.jpg

And go for this length....
http://www.funet.fi/index/railways/Germany/trams/hanvr10f.jpg

OH NO....PLEASE!

This is my greatest fear....KL to have TRAMS!!!! You guys have ANY idea how ugly tram wires are?!?!? Go to Melbourne and you'll see all the wires hanging around..........please for crying out loud - NO TRAMS IN KL PLEASE!!!! :cry:

They should just improve on the bus service instead of putting new transit system........we already got EMU (KTM Komuter), Metro transit system (Starline & Putraline) & monorail. If you add tram, KL would have a complete set of transportation system and none are really that good......in the end we would have ROJAK! :(

KL is already beautiful......don't spoil it with those ugly tram wires.......although tram looks nice! ;)

Originally posted by szehoong

OH NO....PLEASE!

This is my greatest fear....KL to have TRAMS!!!! You guys have ANY idea how ugly tram wires are?!?!? Go to Melbourne and you'll see all the wires hanging around..........please for crying out loud - NO TRAMS IN KL PLEASE!!!! :cry:

They should just improve on the bus service instead of putting new transit system........we already got EMU (KTM Komuter), Metro transit system (Starline & Putraline) & monorail. If you add tram, KL would have a complete set of transportation system and none are really that good......in the end we would have ROJAK! :(

KL is already beautiful......don't spoil it with those ugly tram wires.......although tram looks nice! ;)

i tot modern trams will not have wires dangling around??

i agree on the improvements of of the current LRT and monorail;)

Originally posted by TYW

i tot modern trams will not have wires dangling around??

i agree on the improvements of of the current LRT and monorail;)

There is no such thing as trams without overhead wires! Where do they get electricity from? They can't put it on the ground as people walk on it and cars go on it too. If the road gets flooded the electricity would electrocute whomever that steps on the puddle.....;)

isn't it's dangerous to have a train running in the middle of a busy road?.. we all know lah how our malaysian driver attitude.. i'm afraid there'll be lots of car-tramp accident cases in kl..

Originally posted by archilless

isn't it's dangerous to have a train running in the middle of a busy road?.. we all know lah how our malaysian driver attitude.. i'm afraid there'll be lots of car-tramp accident cases in kl..

I agree to that too! Even Australian drivers whom I could attest much 'polite' and 'civilised' than our drivers here could cause much accident with the trams in Melbourne. I can't imagine trams on our roads! ;)

There would also be trams & pedestrian accidents too! ......not forgetting the biggest road culprits - motorcycles! :rant:

http://www.thai.net/nazrey/[].JPG

---

http://www.veritas.com.my/portfolio/architects/industrial.html

Probably, these trams will teach out drivers or probably the otherway round :D
Anyway, these ugly wires will only be around those lowrise places right? Except for Jalan Raja Laut. :)

Emmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...........................:cool:

Is Penang have the first tram in Malaysia???...i think i still keep the article bout it but lazy to find it out:D :D

Originally posted by baqthier

Probably, these trams will teach out drivers or probably the otherway round :D
Anyway, these ugly wires will only be around those lowrise places right? Except for Jalan Raja Laut. :)

The wires are both ugly for lowrise and highrise.......they shouldn't be in KL! :rant:

Originally posted by szehoong

There is no such thing as trams without overhead wires! Where do they get electricity from? They can't put it on the ground as people walk on it and cars go on it too. If the road gets flooded the electricity would electrocute whomever that steps on the puddle.....;)

i mean like, not so untidy lah:D

Pablo, i think so, it use to go some where around GAMA??

Tram service not finalised

By CHOW HOW BAN


THE details for a possible tram service in Kuala Lumpur city centre have yet to be finalised. Mayor Datuk Mohmad Shaid Mohd Taufek said he did not know the total distance of service coverage but the tram network would link Kampung Baru, Chow Kit, Jalan Tuanku Abdul Rahman and Jalan Petaling.

“The idea is mass transportation for people and tourists to get to these areas.

“Jalan Tuanku Abdul Rahman and Petaling Street have different kinds of attractions. So the need for a tram service is there,” he said after launching the second phase of Plaza Sentral in KL Sentral on Monday.

He said the tram project, which would cost about RM1bil, would help promote integration of the existing light rail transit, KTM Komuter and KL Monorail systems.

When asked whether the tram system would contribute to more traffic congestion in the city, Mohmad Shaid said: “We are talking about public transport here.”



http://metro.thestar.com.my/news/2003/9/p4Anwar.jpg

MRCB chairman Datuk Syed Anwar Jamalullail showing rhe Plaza Sentral model to Mohmad Shaid.




Earlier in his speech, the mayor said he was impressed by both the facilities provided in KL Sentral and the connectivity in the area.

“Not only is it the central station located in the heart of Kuala Lumpur, KL Sentral also provides a link to KLIA and other light rail transit and commuter systems,” he said.

He said he expected Plaza Sentral to be the country’s new landmark.

Located within the KL Sentral development on a prime 29ha freehold land, the Plaza Sentral Phase 2 will consist of 174 office suites in two towers.

Construction work will begin by end of the year and is scheduled to be completed in 24 months.

KL Sentral Sdn Bhd, a consortium company led by Malaysian Resources Corporation Bhd (MRCB), KTM Bhd and Pembinaan Redzai Sdn Bhd, is the developer.

DISAGREE!!!!!! trams in KL is a NO NO!!! make the whole city more western kinda city... no Malaysian at all...:rant: :rant: :mad:

Originally posted by TYW

i mean like, not so untidy lah:D

Pablo, i think so, it use to go some where around GAMA??

that 1 got overhead wires kah?????macam tak ada hehehe..

Originally posted by Pablo

that 1 got overhead wires kah?????macam tak ada hehehe..

Trams runs on electricity so naturally the tracks have overhead wires..... ;)

Szehoong,

The same reason why people in Australia reject monorail and elevated rail is becos they think it's very ugly...trams are more civilised! :D

The public transport "system" in KL is ALREADY rojak!!! Many cities are returning to trams (actually, it's just light rail but on the road) and the newer trams are really cool!

From Melbourne, which has one of the largest tram networks in the world:

http://www.yarratrams.com.au/images/yarra_pic1.jpg
http://www.yarratrams.com.au/images/Upld/Citadis%201.jpg
http://www.yarratrams.com.au/images/Upld/citadis%20at%20superstop2.gif

And a recent accident: :D
http://www.theage.com.au/ffxImage/urlpicture_id_1062403491065_2003/09/02/hoddles1,0.jpg

Originally posted by Blabbyboy

Szehoong,

The same reason why people in Australia reject monorail and elevated rail is becos they think it's very ugly...trams are more civilised! :D

The public transport "system" in KL is ALREADY rojak!!! Many cities are returning to trams (actually, it's just light rail but on the road) and the newer trams are really cool!


And a recent accident: :D
http://www.theage.com.au/ffxImage/urlpicture_id_1062403491065_2003/09/02/hoddles1,0.jpg

I've stayed in Melbourne before and believe me......trams won't work in KL. Imagine getting out of the trams and got hit by motorcycles! Melbourne had very little of these '2-wheelers' therefore could avoid much pedestrian accidents.

And the picture above demonstraits how bad tram accidents could be. Imagine our 'heroic' Intrakota and Cityliner bus drivers whom weave in and out of traffic hit a tram........or that they stop at tram stations?.....or even worst.....race/try to outdo the trams! :D

The pictures you showed are the Yarra Trams which are very nice and beautiful ( try showing the older rickety trams! :D ). I am sure the newer trams (like those developed by European companies) are very nice too but having a 'rail system' on KL's congested roads aren't improving the situation further.

We've got bus and taxi lanes already.......and that didn't deter people to own cars and to drive downtown. Our buses aren't getting anywhere on-time. WIth the addition of trams, it would clogged up the already congested roads further! I do not see how trams can help here.

Yea....KL's metro are really in a mess because of business and political interest in the past. Currently Syarikat Prasarana Negara Bhd, is the owner of both LRT system and are integrating both systems (so expect better things in the future!). This company had also taken over both Cityliner and Intrakota. :)

But with the monorail in place, our transit system are much more complete as it is the 'missing link' of our metro system. Since everything now is under a single owner (with the govt being the majority shareholder), integration would be smooth and sunnier days for our metro system are sure to come. :)

Australians hated monorails because Sydney has it (Aussies are very territorials). Furthermore, the Darling Harbour monorail are mainly built to serve the touristy belt around the Cockle Bay Area and the monorails are the small and touristy type. KL's monorail is different as it is wider than even our LRT systems. And it could ferry the equal amount of passengers as any metro systems could. And another reason for some cities to have trams because tram system are relatively cheaper to put in place and without major changes/modification to the roads.

I don't see how obstructive monorail beams are to the city view. I personally find that tram wires are way more obstructive than monorail beams. Maybe MRT/LRT (elevated rails) are obstructive, but should they be constructed with much planning, it should be sights to behold. Travelling on elevated systems provide a good perspective of a city and many of my visitors loved the view from our LRT systems (I certainly do too). And rail systems could go underground if it should be! :D

hmmmm........I had to agree with szehoong....tramways is not suitable for KL.

I also agree trams are not for KL, but I'm just saying that trams are not that ugly. In the whole of the Asia-Pacific area, only Melb has a major on-road tram system. It's becos it's relatively flat and enough room on the streets. Most trams now have dedicated lines except on the older inner-city roads.

And the older rickety trams are treasured tourist attractions - everyone loves them! There are 2 types of the newest trams in Melb: the Citadis (the pics that I posted) and the Combino. Then there are the refurbished trams from the 1980s (A-class and B-class) and finally the old heritage trams (W-class), that mainly serve tourist routes (they are not used on main lines anymore).

KL CAN have trams if there is enough room at ground level on the route that they choose - and they can do it like Sydney and the new extensions in Melb, where the trams have dedicated lines (see the pic that I posted of the accident - you see that the trams have their own "lanes" in the middle of the road, like an island...the accident happened at a traffic light intersection. The KL proposal is not for a MElb-style tram system, only certain dedicated routes.

Tram v monorail
Well, let's just say that after 100 years, cities that have turned their backs on trams in Europe, Aust and the US are starting to go back to trams...most major cities now have new non-elevated light rail. And what about monorails? Since the 1970s, favour has fallen for monorails...I know the Sydney one is only a tourist toy, but the reason it's not adopted in Aust is becos...WHAT FOR?

But the Monorail through Bintang, for example, is a good idea since there's no other way to do it. But generally, which other major city has turned to monorail in the last 20 years?

I grew up in Europe, in a city with trams, and have travelled around thru many cities with trams - these are always heavy, slow to turn, and traffic-blocking...

... unless, somehow, magically, you ensure that the new tram lanes do not block or take over the existing car/bus lanes at all.

To me, monorail is esthetically the best and most futuristic looking choice. KL and trams? doesn't fit somehow... what next? try to extend trams to KL Sentral too?

But the Monorail through Bintang, for example, is a good idea since there's no other way to do it. But generally, which other major city has turned to monorail in the last 20 years?
Well there's Japan's Naha monorail that just launched before the KL Monorail and Seattle is also building a monorail. Goto www.monorails.org for more of them... btw did you know that Malaysia has a second monorail company besides Monorail Malaysia... it's MMC Metrail and they are now testing it in their test track... go to www.metrail.com for more info!

Originally posted by Pablo

that 1 got overhead wires kah?????macam tak ada hehehe..

i asked my mom when i saw that news, she said there are wires!! she said thay took it down coz it is clumsy

Originally posted by TYW

i asked my mom when i saw that news, she said there are wires!! she said thay took it down coz it is clumsy

took the wires down ah????

Originally posted by Pablo

took the wires down ah????

both wires and tram

Originally posted by TYW

both wires and tram

do u know they plan to built something like bus which won't polluted the air, in Georgetown, around some streets 1 ah...is that thing TRAM??

Originally posted by Pablo

do u know they plan to built something like bus which won't polluted the air, in Georgetown, around some streets 1 ah...is that thing TRAM??

something like that lah. i think it is tram lah. BTW, u mean the one in the newspapers rite??

Originally posted by TYW

something like that lah. i think it is tram lah. BTW, u mean the one in the newspapers rite??

Yupe...but long time didn't heard that news liao...They propose this project bcause the road is too narrow in some georgetown's street...do u think this is suitable in Georgetown:?

Originally posted by Pablo

Yupe...but long time didn't heard that news liao...They propose this project bcause the road is too narrow in some georgetown's street...do u think this is suitable in Georgetown:?

i think if they have a good system, then it is great, then they can stop cars from entering the narrow streets.

Originally posted by TYW

i think if they have a good system, then it is great, then they can stop cars from entering the narrow streets.

yupe u r right..they plan to stop the car enterring some of the narrow streets after they built that things, TRAM?? Quite cool lah if they built tram in PEnang...but sound like Tram very disturbing...hehehhe...

i still remmeber the movie--->final destination 1...1 of the girl is killed by a tram.. so gelyyyyyyyy....

Originally posted by Pablo

yupe u r right..they plan to stop the car enterring some of the narrow streets after they built that things, TRAM?? Quite cool lah if they built tram in PEnang...but sound like Tram very disturbing...hehehhe...

i still remmeber the movie--->final destination 1...1 of the girl is killed by a tram.. so gelyyyyyyyy....

i wanna c. wait after exam i borrow yr CD can ar

Originally posted by TYW

i wanna c. wait after exam i borrow yr CD can ar

i don't have that cd, it is my cousin 1 hehehe but if u want i can borrow from him;) I just got Final Destination 2 ;) but i prefer Final Destination 1 :)

Originally posted by Pablo

i don't have that cd, it is my cousin 1 hehehe but if u want i can borrow from him;) I just got Final Destination 2 ;) but i prefer Final Destination 1 :)

never mind lah. i watch others first.

Originally posted by TYW

never mind lah. i watch others first.

or maybe u can go to my Aunty house to watch that movie hehehehehe...somemore can take some pics of the urban area of Penang hahahaha

Originally posted by Pablo

or maybe u can go to my Aunty house to watch that movie hehehehehe...somemore can take some pics of the urban area of Penang hahahaha

c how 1st lah. no manners lah go ppl's house to take pics

Originally posted by TYW

c how 1st lah. no manners lah go ppl's house to take pics

chech...nevermind 1 lah..i even plan to ask szehoong stay in my aunty house if he don't have any shelter:D :D :D :D :D

Originally posted by Pablo

chech...nevermind 1 lah..i even plan to ask szehoong stay in my aunty house if he don't have any shelter:D :D :D :D :D

haiyoooo....be paiseh. call your aunt make her house become hotel ar

Originally posted by TYW

haiyoooo....be paiseh. call your aunt make her house become hotel ar

chech...when we r small we use to call that house as a hotel lah..all of us love to stay at that house..bcause we can drink watever we 1, eat whatever we like and etc..enjoy ourself there...hehehe..don't worry my aunty very good 1:D

Originally posted by Pablo

chech...when we r small we use to call that house as a hotel lah..all of us love to stay at that house..bcause we can drink watever we 1, eat whatever we like and etc..enjoy ourself there...hehehe..don't worry my aunty very good 1:D

u not paiseh, i paiseh lah

Originally posted by Pablo

do u know they plan to built something like bus which won't polluted the air, in Georgetown, around some streets 1 ah...is that thing TRAM??

Those busses are called trolley busses which runs on electricity and has wires exactly like trams. They have a lot of these in Vancouver. The wires are as ugly as those of trams. ;)

Most trams now have dedicated lines except on the older inner-city roads.

They are proposing it thru Chinatown and Jalan Tuanku Abdul Rahman which is small and narrow - that they had to convert most streets around the area to single way. Bigger roads like Jalan Tun Razak aren't suitable as it has too many cars and vehicles there travels at high speed.......too fast for trams! ;)


And the older rickety trams are treasured tourist attractions - everyone loves them! There are 2 types of the newest trams in Melb: the Citadis (the pics that I posted) and the Combino. Then there are the refurbished trams from the 1980s (A-class and B-class) and finally the old heritage trams (W-class), that mainly serve tourist routes (they are not used on main lines anymore).


When I say rickety....it doesn't mean those antique ones for tourist attractions and diners. Those are lovely and they are as beautiful as those you get in San Francisco! :) What I mean are those from the 70s and 80s (which is the most abundance of all).



KL CAN have trams if there is enough room at ground level on the route that they choose - and they can do it like Sydney and the new extensions in Melb, where the trams have dedicated lines (see the pic that I posted of the accident - you see that the trams have their own "lanes" in the middle of the road, like an island...the accident happened at a traffic light intersection. The KL proposal is not for a MElb-style tram system, only certain dedicated routes.


Sydney's trams are a waste of space......They do not serve the busier routes thus ruin the original notion of a mass transportation system. And they aren't too pedestrian friendly either......the tram route ran thru a busy pedestrian area in between the Paddy's Market and Sydney's Chinatown. I nearly got hit by a stupid tram which the driver didn't sound the horn! And you can imagine how silent these trams are (the newer ones)........And to add to the problem.......sometimes you get tram-stop in the middle of the road (on an island along the divider).....which is bad as people need to cross the busy road.


Tram v monorail
Well, let's just say that after 100 years, cities that have turned their backs on trams in Europe, Aust and the US are starting to go back to trams...most major cities now have new non-elevated light rail. And what about monorails? Since the 1970s, favour has fallen for monorails...I know the Sydney one is only a tourist toy, but the reason it's not adopted in Aust is becos...WHAT FOR?

But the Monorail through Bintang, for example, is a good idea since there's no other way to do it. But generally, which other major city has turned to monorail in the last 20 years? [/SIZE][/QUOTE]

1) Seattle (U/C)

2) Las Vegas (U/C)

3) Dubai (proposed but confirmed monorail)

4) Jakarta (proposed but confirmed monorail)

5) Georgetown (proposed but confirmed monorail)

6) Putrajaya (U/C)

7) So many cities in Japan ( I can't name all ;) )

If Walt Disney World were to stop its Monorail, there would be a mojor transportation crisis there! :)

Originally posted by Ijud

Well there's Japan's Naha monorail that just launched before the KL Monorail and Seattle is also building a monorail. Goto www.monorails.org for more of them... btw did you know that Malaysia has a second monorail company besides Monorail Malaysia... it's MMC Metrail and they are now testing it in their test track... go to www.metrail.com for more info!

Good point! ;)

Metrail is by Syed Mokhtar's MMC.......very rich backing. :D

Originally posted by Nova Singapore

I grew up in Europe, in a city with trams, and have travelled around thru many cities with trams - these are always heavy, slow to turn, and traffic-blocking...

... unless, somehow, magically, you ensure that the new tram lanes do not block or take over the existing car/bus lanes at all.

To me, monorail is esthetically the best and most futuristic looking choice. KL and trams? doesn't fit somehow... what next? try to extend trams to KL Sentral too?

That's another good point! :)

KL roads aren't that big and trams would be too clumsy on KL roads. I made an informal survey on all my friends whom had studied in Melbourne and all couldn't agree (or even imagine) KL to have trams! ;)

Although I hold strongly to these words - 'Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder' but I still wonder how these could possibly looked bad ??? :? And these are just the Malaysian ones.......;)



Metrail

http://www.metrail.com/images/gallery/gallery6.jpg

http://www.metrail.com/images/gallery/gallery4.jpg

http://www.metrail.com/images/gallery/gallery12.jpg

http://www.metrail.com/images/gallery/gallery2.jpg

http://www.metrail.com/images/gallery/gallery5.jpg




Monorail Malaysia

http://www.monorail.com.my/klms/IMAGES/MM_for_frontpage2.jpg

http://pwp.maxis.net.my/szehoong/pix/kl monorail/dscn0474sm.jpg

http://pwp.maxis.net.my/szehoong/pix/kl monorail/dscn0478sm.jpg

http://www.utusan.com.my/pix/2003/0901/utusan_express/home_news/hn_01_big.jpg

http://202.186.86.35/archives/2003/9/2/nation/p8crowd.JPG

metrail is a kind of monorail too?

Originally posted by TYW

metrail is a kind of monorail too?

Well....if you looked at the picture carefully.....the train runs on a single rail - that is why you called it Mono(means single or one)rail ;)

http://www.metrail.com/images/gallery/gallery5.jpg

Cool! Another Monorail company? I do hope we could export lotsa these! :cool:

I think the Metrail is built for diferent market from Monorail Malaysia.

U can see the design of the rail which are different. My opinion it is suitable for use in theme park ,very short distance journey not for cormercial and heavy traffic uses like Monorail Malaysia.

Anyway it is good to see another monorail to be produced in Malaysia.

Seems that the monorail will be popular mode of mass tranportation in other world cities since Malaysia produce and do excellent marketing. Specially in Islamic countries:D :D

Originally posted by jomDU

I think the Metrail is built for diferent market from Monorail Malaysia.

U can see the design of the rail which are different. My opinion it is suitable for use in theme park ,very short distance journey not for cormercial and heavy traffic uses like Monorail Malaysia.

Anyway it is good to see another monorail to be produced in Malaysia.

Seems that the monorail will be popular mode of mass tranportation in other world cities since Malaysia produce and do excellent marketing. Specially in Islamic countries:D :D


Yeah....Metrail seems smaller and fit for smaller scale projects but its largest variant which is the Metrail Ultra would carry 30-40 thousand passengers per hour......equalent to supposedly 'larger' metro system. If I am not mistaken, Putraline surrently carries about 20-30 thousand passengers per hour (peak). ;)

Monorail Malaysia is definitely bigger and could be extended up to 12 cars! (currently 2 cars only). The width of Monorail Malaysia is 3m and that is really wide.........Spore's MRT is 3.2m in comparison so the monorail is just short of 20cm wide! ;)


A 6-cars train rendering of Monorail Malaysia:
http://www.monorail.com.my/mmt/IMAGES/train_6car.gif




Like jomDU had said......its good to see that there are now 2 monorail manufacturer in the country. :)

Oops.... :D

MMC Metrail Configurations




Metrail

http://www.metrail.com/images/metst.jpg

A flexible carriage set for medium duties in resorts, theme parks, light town/city travel.
Capacities of 5 -10 thousand passengers per hour
Minimum curve radius 20 metre
Maximum gradient 10 %
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Metrail Plus

http://www.metrail.com/images/metplus.jpg

A standard monorail system for regular city shuttle service.Medium to high commuter volume.
Capacities of 10 - 20 thousand passengers per hour
Minimum curve radius 30 metre
Maximum gradient 12 %
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Metrail Ultra

http://www.metrail.com/images/metultra.jpg

A high volume monorail system for heavy ridership locations service. High volume commuter traffic.
Capacities of 30 - 40 thousand passengers per hour
Minimum curve radius 45 metre
Maximum gradient 18 %

FEEL THAT I'M MORE CONFIDENT TO RIDE ON MONO MALAYSIA THAN THE METRAIL;)

I wonder to what extent is MMC contributing to the Metrail project? Frazer Nash does a lot of engineering work......is MMC merely the sponser I wonder.....

Originally posted by liping_t

I wonder to what extent is MMC contributing to the Metrail project? Frazer Nash does a lot of engineering work......is MMC merely the sponser I wonder.....

I believe MMC is capable as well. MMC has got a lot of expertise in the company (read: lotsa MONEY!). MMC isn't just merely the sponsor but I think they built the system and the technology as well. MMC is involved in a lot of 'high-tech' stuffs lately. ;)

Frazer Nash is the technology provider for the electric motor (they are expert at this) and the electric system.

This colaboration is similar to POEM (Projek Otomobil Elektrik Malaysia) which supplies 'Suria' - the solar-powered electric cars for the Commonwealth Games in KL and the Olympics in Sydney.

POEM built the body and everything else which Frazer Nash provides the engine and the electrical system. ;)

However, there is still a slight chance that MMC is the 'sleeping' partner! :D

Originally posted by jomDU

FEEL THAT I'M MORE CONFIDENT TO RIDE ON MONO MALAYSIA THAN THE METRAIL;)

Just dun walk underneath the rail!!! :D :laugh:

KL is a gr8 city...but tram? bad bad bad idea...

IMO trams are nothing but novelty items that is not necessarily an efficient form of transport. Looks cool, but i think it will aggravate the bad traffic in KL.

KL should continue expanding it's LRT network...nothing works better than an alternative viaduct. Its never a good idea adding a tram line to already-congested roads.

Singapore, in its recent Master Plan, announced plans to massively expand the city's mass transit subway lines (MRT) and LRT to a whopping 500km (comparable to NY's system, currently the world's largest). The construction of such lines are given the utmost priority and contruction will pick up pace in the years to come.

I still think subway lines are the way to go for a city's transportation need (perhaps till 2150 when alternatives to subways are invented)

thanks 4 the info szehoong!! i prefer Metrail's design

Originally posted by rEXxx

KL is a gr8 city...but tram? bad bad bad idea...

IMO trams are nothing but novelty items that is not necessarily an efficient form of transport. Looks cool, but i think it will aggravate the bad traffic in KL.

KL should continue expanding it's LRT network...nothing works better than an alternative viaduct. Its never a good idea adding a tram line to already-congested roads.

Singapore, in its recent Master Plan, announced plans to massively expand the city's mass transit subway lines (MRT) and LRT to a whopping 500km (comparable to NY's system, currently the world's largest). The construction of such lines are given the utmost priority and contruction will pick up pace in the years to come.

I still think subway lines are the way to go for a city's transportation need (perhaps till 2150 when alternatives to subways are invented) Agreed. As an interim measure while they expand the rail network, they ought to upgrade the bus system. Szehoong wont even let me try them. ;)

As for the plans for Singapore you mentioned, it actually meant a deathknell for most of the existing bus networks here. That is the reason SBS (Singapore Bus Services co.) was allowed to diversify into a multi-modal transport provider and was given the right to run the new north-east Line, while SMRT (operater of the other MRT lines) merged with the other bus company, TIBS (Trans-island bus services). Both also operate taxis. So now you have two gigantic transport companies that will mainly run rail lines, and buses and taxis are just supplementary and niche services....

oh btw does Mlysia have a mass rapid subway network? or is it just light rail and monorail? The current lrt network seems rather massive (if im not wrong, one of the light rail line is actually the world's longest). But i dont remember any mass rapid subway in Mlysia.

The tram may be quite a good idea if it's used simply as novelty for tourists, not as a mode of mass transport.

Originally posted by rEXxx

oh btw does Mlysia have a mass rapid subway network? or is it just light rail and monorail? The current lrt network seems rather massive (if im not wrong, one of the light rail line is actually the world's longest). But i dont remember any mass rapid subway in Mlysia.

The tram may be quite a good idea if it's used simply as novelty for tourists, not as a mode of mass transport. I consider the LRT an MRT system. The name is a misnomer, because by common definition based on rail guage width, passenger capacity, and so on, the system is on par with any other mass transit system.

5 of their stations along one of the LRT lines are underground. All the rest are still elevated.

good point. in actuality, LRT or Light Rail Transit is used as a term to refer to any railed vehicle lighter then conventional heavy rail (read:KTM). MRT or Mass Rapid Transit on the other hand, is actually a generic term to describe urban transportation systems.

Thus, the MRT of Singaopre can also be considered an LRT, and the LRT systems of KL are also, MRT.

MRT is generic because it can refer to several options, LRT being one of them. Other options include segregated bus lanes, guided buses, monorail, trams etc.

Originally posted by liping_t

good point. in actuality, LRT or Light Rail Transit is used as a term to refer to any railed vehicle lighter then conventional heavy rail (read:KTM). MRT or Mass Rapid Transit on the other hand, is actually a generic term to describe urban transportation systems.

Thus, the MRT of Singaopre can also be considered an LRT, and the LRT systems of KL are also, MRT.

MRT is generic because it can refer to several options, LRT being one of them. Other options include segregated bus lanes, guided buses, monorail, trams etc. Mdm....conventional heavy rail isnt considered an MRT. You dunt call a national rail system an MRT system. MRT systems tend to refer to small downtown systems.

Have u seen a real LRT system? Ever seen the ones in Singapore? If the MRT here is called an LRT, I wonder what the LRT is called....

Originally posted by huaiwei
Mdm....conventional heavy rail isnt considered an MRT. You dunt call a national rail system an MRT system. MRT systems tend to refer to small downtown systems.

Have u seen a real LRT system? Ever seen the ones in Singapore? If the MRT here is called an LRT, I wonder what the LRT is called....

I apologise, that was a mistake. Singapore's MRT is indeed a heavy rail system.

however, what I was attempting to say was, MRT as a term, is used to describe urban transport systems in general, thus it more properly used as an umbrella term to include both Light Rail as well as the Heavy Rail systems used as underground metro's in cities such as Moscow, London, New York etc

The term MRT that we associate with the metro systems of London or New York are more appropriately referred to has Heavy Rail systems.

One way to differentiate between heavy and light rail would be train car weight. Heavy Rail systems use vehicles of 25-35 tons while Light Rail systems use vehicles of 15-18 tons. Another way would be passenger capacity, Heavy Rail has the capacity to carry up to 40,000 passengers/hr vs Light Rail with a capacity of 20,000 passengers/hr. There are a lot of ways to define heavy vs light rail. In some sources, Heavy rail is used to refer to all conventional railroads, in other sources, heavy rail is defined as receiving it's electrical current from a 3rd rail (vs light rail where the electrical current is derived from an overhead cable). However, these definitions are all merging together and the lines have been blurred.

It's even more complicated by the fact that some use LRT to mean Light Rapid Transit vs Light Rail Transit. Thus MRT could then be used as a counterterm to Light Rapid Transit.

But if used as Light Rail, then I believe that MRT as a phrase should be used as an umbrella term.

Putra's system is designed for a capacity of 30,000 passengers/hr but is an LRT due to the weight of it's vehicles. the STAR system is designed for 16,000 passengers/hr thus it is also an LRT system.

one of the many differing definitions for transit:
http://www.eis.nottingham.ac.uk/transportissues/lr_whatis.html

No need to apologise. We all make mistakes. In this case, however, you may not have even made a mistake at all. Afterall, this issue is open to discussion in my view. ;)

MRT as a term, is used to describe urban transport systems in general, thus it more properly used as an umbrella term to include both Light Rail as well as the Heavy Rail systemsI would disagree with this. MRT stands for MASS rapid/rail transit, while LRT stands for LIGHT rapid/rail transit. The word "mass" suggests a far higher load then the word "light". They two terms exists clearly to differenciate the two, therefore "MRT" cant be an umbrella term.

On the contrary, I would say the word "metro" is more suitable to refer to both the MRT and LRT systems. Words like "subway" actually means the same thing, but they are a misnomer as they suggests being totally underground. Not all systems are like this.

I do not think train system sare standardied internationally, but in many cities, they tend to name their systems based on a hierachy of sizes. KL's "LRT" is not the smallest it can build, and I would be wondering how it will name future light rail systems, if there are any plans for that. Most other cities call their smallest lines LRT, and their main lines MRT. The bigger lines would already qualify as regional/commuter lines, or even the national rail network. The best examples of this 3-step hierachy can be found in smaller European countries such as Stolkholm, Oslo, and so on. Afterall, they were the pioneers in all the various rail technologies and systems.

Originally posted by huaiwei
No need to apologise. We all make mistakes. In this case, however, you may not have even made a mistake at all. Afterall, this issue is open to discussion in my view. ;)

I would disagree with this. MRT stands for MASS rapid/rail transit, while LRT stands for LIGHT rapid/rail transit. The word "mass" suggests a far higher load then the word "light". They two terms exists clearly to differenciate the two, therefore "MRT" cant be an umbrella term.

On the contrary, I would say the word "metro" is more suitable to refer to both the MRT and LRT systems. Words like "subway" actually means the same thing, but they are a misnomer as they suggests being totally underground. Not all systems are like this.

I do not think train system sare standardied internationally, but in many cities, they tend to name their systems based on a hierachy of sizes. KL's "LRT" is not the smallest it can build, and I would be wondering how it will name future light rail systems, if there are any plans for that. Most other cities call their smallest lines LRT, and their main lines MRT.

Thanks for the comment :) It is nice to discuss....

I disagree with your first point tho', the word Mass is not an exact counterpart to the word Light, the opposite of Light, being Heavy. Thus the terminology Light Rail vs Heavy Rail. However, Mass Transit is used to describe 'amt of people moved', thus differenting it in city planning from non-mass(?) transport (ie.cars, vans). This is certainly not eh prevailing view, but it certainly warrants merit as a definition. For example, the article below suggests Mass Transit used as an umbrella term:

http://www.gobrt.org/gaoreport.pdf

or other sources that suggest the use of Mass Transit as a general term:

http://faculty.washington.edu/~jbs/itrans/aerorail.htm
http://faculty.washington.edu/~jbs/itrans/itrans2.htm
http://www.citybus.org/history1.html

I certainly agree with your suggestion towards the use of the word Metro however, and I do agree that to a huge extent, these terms are not standardised, and the way they are used depends upon the city authority that is publicising them.

I think Singapore's MRT system is used as a 'brandname'. Much like Londons 'Underground'.

There are other names that can still be used, as far as your comment as to Malaysia getting (if) a smaller system then her current LRT systems...these would be Ultra Light Rail Transit, or, even smaller....Personal Rapid Transit.

:)

S'pore MRT trains (mainly underground, 140m long, 24 doors, 3.2m wide) & stations are a much bigger version of those in KL, and they travel faster (up to 80km/h). A SMRT train can easily carry over 1000 people.

S'pore LRT(elevated, 4 doors) on the other end, is a much smaller version of KL's "LRT". Each SLRT cabin can carry about 50 people (around the capacity of a bus). SLRT acts as a high-tech automated feeder service to the SMRT.

SLRT serves individual small towns and future technology parks, it runs through "unserved area" the mrt leaves behind. Since the SMRT is too massive, it can't possibly serve each and every inch of the island. However, a fully connected island is what the government wants to achieve, so the SLRT comes in!

Future ultra-modern SLRT lines that will serve S'pore's One-North Biomedical Hub district will be called the "People-Mover-System."
And another LRT system, that will link the island resort of Sentosa to mainland Singapore, will be called the Sentosa Express.

I hope u guys manage to realise that S'pore's MRT & LRT are two distinctive systems, that work together as an integrated network.

Total SMRT network length: 110km (68 stations)
Total SLRT network length: approx.24km (30 stations)
Future total SMRT + SLRT network length: over 500 km*

(*currently, the world's largest network is in NY:368km)

liping_t, London may have coined the term underground (afterall they are the first such system in the world), but Singapore definitely didnt come up with the term MRT! ;) How can it be a brandname then? I can still remember clearly the authoritie's explanation for the terms MRT and LRT, and how they said "mass" can be equated with heavy". Some cities may choose to call their systems "heavy rail transit", but bpth terms are actually intercheable. On the other hand, I have yet to hear any city calling their system which only consits of LRT (the really light ones, not the KL ones) an MRT system.

I doubled checked rex's post. Singapore's MRT trains each have a capacity of way beyond 1000. It's 1,920 max capacity per train, or 320 per car. Both LRT systems currently in operation, run by SLRT and SBS Transit, have a max capacity of only 105 per train. 1,920 vs 105. The distinction is plainly obvious. No one is going to call a train system which only carries 105 per train an MRT! :D

You guys can check up more details in another thread I created here: The Southeast Asian Metro Systems Thread (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60268). You will then notice just how similar the KL "LRT" is to the MRT in other systems! (BTW, Manila is another city that made the mistake of calling their first line an LRT. Thankfully they started calling their newer lines MRT instead. :D)

I am reading all of your discussion with great interest .....here's some info I managed to find........ :D

Here's some info about our Putraline 'LRT' system:

http://www.putra.com.my/images/trre.jpg

Dimension

Length - 33.7 m
Width - 2.65 m
Height - 3.44 m
Weight - 43800 kg per train (empty)
Train Gauge - 1.435 m

http://www.bombardier.com/en/1_0/img/122111c.gif
Capacity

Normal - 370 passengers per train (seating 64, standing 306)
Crush - 472 passengers per train
Wheel Chair Seating - 2 per train


Performance

Maximum Operating Speed - 80 kph
Average Operating Speed - 40 kph
Maximum Designs Speed - 90 kph
Braking Type - dynamic, disc, track
Headway - 90 seconds


Fleet size

Section 1 - 23 trains (46 cars)
Average Operating Speed - 35 trains (70 cars)



Vehicle Power

Primary Power - 750 Vdc.
Propulsion - 4 LIM per train (Linear Induction Motor).
Clearance between LIM and reaction rail - 8 - 10 mm.
On-board Health Monitoring Unit to detect/monitor train status/health - 2 per train.
Vehicle on-board computer - to control train movement - 2 per train.
Brake Assurance Monitor - to supervise train braking - 1 per train.



Other Features

Walk through gangway between cars.
Battery - 1-hour backup
Bi directional
Station Stop Announcement
Door recycle when obstructed (maximum - 3 times)

Oops....:D

And now the Starline 'LRT' System:

http://www.klrt.com.my/starlrt/aboutstar/image/cover/traincover.jpg

General Description


Each train consists of 3 single-articulated, two-section vehicles with two motor bogies, one under each end, and one trailer bogie under the articulation. 2 of the vehicles have a driver's cabin (D-car) and these are semi-permanently coupled to intermediate vehicles (M-car) back-to-back forming the 3-vehicle train configuration. Each M-car has 60 seats with a total of 408 passengers (crush load of 8 p/m2); a D-car has 54 seats and a total capacity of 396 passengers.


To allow fast passenger exchange, six large double-leaf doors are installed on both sides of the vehicle. The doors are pneumatically operated.


http://www.klrt.com.my/starlrt/aboutstar/image/picture/dcar.jpg

http://www.klrt.com.my/starlrt/aboutstar/image/picture/specdrawing.jpg

Specifications at a glance


vehicle length - 28,070 mm
vehicle height - 3,410 mm
vehicle width - 2,640 mm
wheelbase of bogie - 2,016 mm
tare weight - 42 tons
total weight - 66 tons
max. axle load - 12 tons
number of seated passengers - 60
number of standees @ 8 p/m2 - 340
total number of passengers per vehicle - 400
total number of passengers 3-vehicle train - 1,200
max. speed - 70 kph
service braking - 1.07 m/s2
emergency braking - 1.30 m/s2
power supply - 750 VDC
traction motor rating - 222 kW
interior temperature - 24 °C
cooling capacity per unit - 40 kW

Thanks SzeHoong for the info...I had been trying to find the respective weights of Putra/Star to no success...

Looks like we have a typical Definition issue here....I'm defining MRT as something different from HuaiWei.

In your definition, MRT (Mas Rapid Transit) is the counter to LRT (Light Rail Transit) while I'm saying that it's an umbrella term for both Light Rail, Heavy Rail, Trams, Guided Buses etc.

For proof, you have submitted that MRT is used in certain countries (ie.Singapore) who then have built smaller systems and called them LRT.

But, I am still unsure how you define your difference between MRT and LRT systems...help me with this....

On the other hand, here are some cities that appear to define MRT as I do:

fr the Delhi Metro Rail Corp website:
As cities grow in size, the number of vehicular trips on road system goes up. This necessitates a pragmatic policy shift to discourage private modes and encourage public transport once the level of traffic along any travel corridor in one direction exceeds 20,000 persons per hour. Introduction of a rail based (MRTS) Mass Rapid Transit System is called for..... here, they clarify what SORT of Mass Rapid Transit system they require by further defining it saying that it will be rail based.

from the civil engineering website of U of Nothingham:
Light rail [gloss.] is the technical name for 'trams' and 'metros' [gloss.] amongst other things. There is a lot of confusion over the definitions of light rail, trams and metros. As a rough guide consider the following:
Tram – Able to run on on-street rails, but also has off-street sections. Stops as frequently as buses. Eg. NET
Metro – Heavier than tram, often segregated from road traffic and people. Stops more frequently than heavy rail, but less frequently than trams. Eg. London Underground,Tyne+Wear Metro
Light rail – General term for any railed vehicle lighter than conventional heavy rail
Mass rapid transit (MRT) [gloss.] is a more generic term used to describe modern urban public transport systems; these can range from a painted bus lane to extensive underground train networks. The need for these new rapid transit systems has arisen from the need to reduce traffic congestion in urban areas. MRT systems are seen as 'carrots', designed to encourage motorists to leave cars at home and use public transport (see carrots section for more examples).

from an article regarding proposal to build an MRT system in Maharashta, India:
http://www.techno-preneur.net/timeis/maharashtra/inv_opp/Mass%20rapid%20Transit%20sys.htm
notice that in the proposal, they define the MRT system by saying that they need a High Capacity MRT system, why bother if it's an obvious fact.....

from the land transport authority of SIngapore's website:
http://www.lta.gov.sg/projects/index_proj_rail.htm
defining the LRT as a Light Rapid Transit (rather then Light RAIL Transit) thus providing a way how to differentiate Singapore's MRT and LRT systems (which I had alluded to in a previous post)

from Thailand:
http://www.aec-th.com/html/body_mass_rapid_transit.html
The Initial System Project was a heavy rail, rapid transit system covering a route of 20 km. with 21 stations from Hua Lamphong via Huai Khwang Depot to Bang Sue. It provided transfer to the two existing mass transit projects, namely the BTS Project by the BMA and the Hopewell Project by the SRT. AEC provided assistance to Halcrow Asia Ltd. in undertaking the alignment study and preliminary design of the Initial System Project which at that time was considered to be an elevated structure, except for 700 m. at Hua Lamphong Station which was to be underground to enable future expansion. notice that again here, the word Heavy Rail was used prior to the phrase Rapid Transit System. Furthermore, they refer to the BTS Skytrain system as a Mass Transit System which, in terms of passengers/hr (around 20,000/hr for the Sukumvit line and 13,000/hr in the Silom line) it would fit under the Light Rail category.

I still therefore feel that for Singapore, the use of SMRT is a corportate name, not that Singapore 'invented' it, but that it is now a propriatary name. Just like, 'London Underground' or 'Chicago Blue Line' etc

Hm....think I mentioned in the previous thread the train capacity of the Singapore MRT and LRT trains. Here's a graphic example:

MRT:

http://www.smrtcorp.com/smrt/photo-gallery/train/wallpaper/train09_w.jpg

http://www.smrtcorp.com/smrt/photo-gallery/train/wallpaper/train20_w.jpg

http://www.sbstransit.com.sg/nel/img/welcomeimg_1.jpghttp://www.sbstransit.com.sg/nel/img/welcomeimg_2.jpghttp://www.sbstransit.com.sg/nel/img/welcomeimg_3.jpghttp://www.sbstransit.com.sg/nel/img/welcomeimg_4.jpghttp://www.sbstransit.com.sg/nel/img/welcomeimg_5.jpg

LRT:

http://www.metropla.net/as/sing/teck-whye-1.jpg

http://www.sbstransit.com.sg/img/wall_paper4.jpg

You might be right that the term MRT is generic in certain places. However, I must point out that I sat on the BKK Skytrain before, and it is definitely heavy rail! :D

Hi Huaiwei,

Just want to know whether the new NEL's Alstom trains are using overhead pantograph or 3rd rail? Hmmmm.... looking forward to ride them soon!

Originally posted by Ijud

Hi Huaiwei,

Just want to know whether the new NEL's Alstom trains are using overhead pantograph or 3rd rail? Hmmmm.... looking forward to ride them soon!

I didn't see any overhead wires so I believe that they are using 3rd rail. The NEL is really kewl! ;)

Too bad it is underground - that means no view! ......underground trains are kinda boring actually ;)

Originally posted by szehoong

I didn't see any overhead wires so I believe that they are using 3rd rail. The NEL is really kewl! ;)

Too bad it is underground - that means no view! ......underground trains are kinda boring actually ;) U might be surprised, but to answer Ijud's question, it was indeed via overhead pantograph! :D I discovered this from the news on tv, where they showed those stuff on the train rooftops. Its kinda eerie, but it showed how, every morning before the trains roll into service, the receivers on top of all the train carriages in the depot move into position automatically in unison and start to test their own internal and external systems without a soul in sight, since they are all computer-controlled. Reminds of the clone wars! :D

Yah and I am not happy about the lack of views. I actually complained about it since the plans came out donkey years ago! :D Never was I to know that the most likely reason was they subsequently built a vehicular viaduct over the road where the MRT is underneath at the same time when the MRT was built (which led to many people thinking the viaduct was for the MRT, to my amusement). If you recall, szehoong, u might have seen it before we went into that station. ;)

Ijud, you are coming to Singapore? ;)

Originally posted by huaiwei

U might be surprised, but to answer Ijud's question, it was indeed via overhead pantograph! :D I discovered this from the news on tv, where they showed those stuff on the train rooftops. Its kinda eerie, but it showed how, every morning before the trains roll into service, the receivers on top of all the train carriages in the depot move into position automatically in unison and start to test their own internal and external systems without a soul in sight, since they are all computer-controlled. Reminds of the clone wars! :D

Yah and I am not happy about the lack of views. I actually complained about it since the plans came out donkey years ago! :D Never was I to know that the most likely reason was they subsequently built a vehicular viaduct over the road where the MRT is underneath at the same time when the MRT was built (which led to many people thinking the viaduct was for the MRT, to my amusement). If you recall, szehoong, u might have seen it before we went into that station. ;)

Ijud, you are coming to Singapore? ;)

hmmm....quite surprising that the NEL is using the overhead pantograph. I was thinking it could most likely be a 3rd rail as there might be an extention to the current line and possibility of the extension going elevated. So I presumed all SBS Transit MRT would be underground in the future? :? ;)

Hm..its not really to do with the operator. The government builds the line, and the two transport companies vie to operate it! ;)

This line isnt expected to go above ground, as far as the plans show. The circle line being built now, which is expected to link to it in the south, is purely underground too (and SMRT won the bid to run it). In fact, basically all future MRT lines appear to be underground from now on, with only LRT above ground. :cry:

Ijud, you are coming to Singapore? ;)

Yupp... maybe end of the year! Every year also I visit Singapore! Great shopping paradise! but I don't really shop that much... insufficient funds! :D

Originally posted by huaiwei
You might be right that the term MRT is generic in certain places. However, I must point out that I sat on the BKK Skytrain before, and it is definitely heavy rail! :D

Ok *grin*...well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this on eh, Huai Wei...ah well, it was fun and I did learn stuff too...that's always what makes things interesting!

Cheers

http://pwp.maxis.net.my/szehoong/pix/spore/NEL/DSCN0000sm.JPG

Hahaha!.......Now I see it!!! No 3rd rail! :D




http://pwp.maxis.net.my/szehoong/pix/spore/NEL/DSCN0001sm.JPG

I can also see the overhead pantograph in this picture! :) .......so confirmed lah! hehehe ;)

Originally posted by szehoong
http://pwp.maxis.net.my/szehoong/pix/spore/NEL/DSCN0000sm.JPG

Hahaha!.......Now I see it!!! No 3rd rail! :D




http://pwp.maxis.net.my/szehoong/pix/spore/NEL/DSCN0001sm.JPG

I can also see the overhead pantograph in this picture! :) .......so confirmed lah! hehehe ;)

Wahh... nice pics szehoong! Those NEL tunnels are so well lit... not like our Putra... just an Ultraviolet light or something for every few metres... jimat cermat mahh! Hmmm... but when we think again... using overhead pantograph is a lot safer than using 3rd rail if there is an emergency... the passangers need to use the train's emergency door and walk through the tunnel to the nearest station right... So the risk of getting electrocuted is minimized!

Originally posted by Ijud

Wahh... nice pics szehoong! Those NEL tunnels are so well lit... not like our Putra... just an Ultraviolet light or something for every few metres... jimat cermat mahh! Hmmm... but when we think again... using overhead pantograph is a lot safer than using 3rd rail if there is an emergency... the passangers need to use the train's emergency door and walk through the tunnel to the nearest station right... So the risk of getting electrocuted is minimized!

errrr.....actually our Putra is as well litted as the NEL tunnels. I would post pictures of Putraline tunnels when I get home tonight! (If got time lar! :D)

I had to over exposed the picture a little to get the details and I post-edited its gamma a bit too so the tunnel pictures here looked brighter to reveal more details. ;)

The only 'dark' part of Putraline that are dark is the 'cut and cover' part of the tunnel between the opening of the tunnel and Masjid Jamek station and the other opening to the Ampang Park station. I seriously dunno why they do not lit up these part of the tunnel. I actually only notice it after HUaiwei pointed out to me that our tunnels are so dim! :D

The 'bored' part of the tunnel is as brightly litted too. :) ...and no lar....they din use ultraviolet light lah......U think disco meh? :laugh:

Originally posted by Ijud
Hmmm... but when we think again... using overhead pantograph is a lot safer than using 3rd rail if there is an emergency... the passangers need to use the train's emergency door and walk through the tunnel to the nearest station right... So the risk of getting electrocuted is minimized!

yea....true it is much safer in a 'tunnel environment' but the Putraline trains goes elevated and at-grade too so it would be extremely ugly to have overhead pantograph. In my opinion, this suits best to an all-tunnel train system like NEL. ;)

Originally posted by liping_t

Ok *grin*...well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this on eh, Huai Wei...ah well, it was fun and I did learn stuff too...that's always what makes things interesting!

Cheers Hehe.....yeah its real fun to discuss this :D I can see you really put in lots of effort to research on it, so you have my respect. ;) Hats off to you! :D

Originally posted by Ijud

Wahh... nice pics szehoong! Those NEL tunnels are so well lit... not like our Putra... just an Ultraviolet light or something for every few metres... jimat cermat mahh! Hmmm... but when we think again... using overhead pantograph is a lot safer than using 3rd rail if there is an emergency... the passangers need to use the train's emergency door and walk through the tunnel to the nearest station right... So the risk of getting electrocuted is minimized! Haha! Yeah wat szehoong said was true. His photos are tweaked to show more details. The tunnels are not that brigtly lit!

Hmm, I dunt seem to remember complaining that the tunnels are "too dim" on the putraline? If I did, dunt take me seriously...it might be just a comment on certain parts of the tunnel. ;) And BTW, it is common knowledge that the existing tunnels of the North-south and East-west Lines here are basically PITCH DARK! :D

And Ijud's comment about the safety aspects...boy..I didnt even tot of that! Now I realise why. Thanks! :D

Originally posted by huaiwei

Haha! Yeah wat szehoong said was true. His photos are tweaked to show more details. The tunnels are not that brigtly lit!

Hmm, I dunt seem to remember complaining that the tunnels are "too dim" on the putraline? If I did, dunt take me seriously...it might be just a comment on certain parts of the tunnel. ;) And BTW, it is common knowledge that the existing tunnels of the North-south and East-west Lines here are basically PITCH DARK! :D

And Ijud's comment about the safety aspects...boy..I didnt even tot of that! Now I realise why. Thanks! :D

haha....dun worry.......Actually I din notice it until you said so.....you asked: I thought you said the tunnels are litted up? :D

I expected that as you would try to compare every single detail after going on Putraline for the first time and NEL is still new to Singapore. Furthermore both systems are kinda similar except for technicalities and size. :D

Remember we're standing at the front of the train when it went down the tunnel? The stretch between the tunnel opening and Masjid Jamek station is the 'squared' part......the 'cut and cover' section which is appox 300 metres (could be less). I don't know why but they decide not to lit up this section and the only lights you'll see is far in between and those are very dim ones. After Masjid Jamek where the tunnels are made using tunnel-boring machines (round cross-section), the tunnel is as bright as those you get in the NEL tunnels. :)

I guess the reason they litted up the tunnels is because the trains are driverless in both cases and there are windows peering out of both ends of the trains.

I presumed that most (if not all) driver-assisted train tunnels of other metros are pitch-dark as well. ;)

Originally posted by szehoong
I had to over exposed the picture a little to get the details and I post-edited its gamma a bit too so the tunnel pictures here looked brighter to reveal more details. ;)

The only 'dark' part of Putraline that are dark is the 'cut and cover' part of the tunnel between the opening of the tunnel and Masjid Jamek station and the other opening to the Ampang Park station. I seriously dunno why they do not lit up these part of the tunnel. I actually only notice it after HUaiwei pointed out to me that our tunnels are so dim! :D

OIC... I thought those NEL tunnels are really that bright! :)

Yupp... I did noticed that part of Putra's tunnel that they don't lit! Wonder why?? Maybe they wanna make us 'seram' a lil' bit!? :cheers:

Originally posted by szehoong
yea....true it is much safer in a 'tunnel environment' but the Putraline trains goes elevated and at-grade too so it would be extremely ugly to have overhead pantograph. In my opinion, this suits best to an all-tunnel train system like NEL. ;)

Yupp... I totally agree... thank god they didn't use overhead pantograph for Putra and Star! :D

But I wonder why they use the overhead pantograph for the ERL trains... It'll definitely look nicer if they use 3rd rail! Is it because of it's speed??

Originally posted by szehoong
The 'bored' part of the tunnel is as brightly litted too. :) ...and no lar....they din use ultraviolet light lah......U think disco meh? :laugh:

Ehehehh..... I tot those blue/purple color lights were uv lights! :D What is it for ahh? Now I remember the blue/purple lights also available not only underground but at-grade also... all the way...

Originally posted by Ijud

Yupp... I totally agree... thank god they didn't use overhead pantograph for Putra and Star! :D

But I wonder why they use the overhead pantograph for the ERL trains... It'll definitely look nicer if they use 3rd rail! Is it because of it's speed??

I am no railway expert but I guess the speed is the reason too. Notice that all the high speed trains uses overhead Pantograph like the bullet trains in Japan....the TGV .....the Eurostar.....the ICE

Then notice that all those which uses 3rd rail doesn't goes above 100kmph for average speed.......so I guess must be it....hehehe ;)

nice pics szehoong!! haven't seen the underground part of LRT B4

Originally posted by TYW

nice pics szehoong!! haven't seen the underground part of LRT B4 Funny....what he posted was pictures of the Singapore MRT tunnels.....

The LRT tunnel's station look very cool:cool: :cool: too bad i didn't take any pics of it:bash:

Originally posted by huaiwei

Funny....what he posted was pictures of the Singapore MRT tunnels.....

singapore?? he he......:bash: :bash:

i've been on singapore's MRT but i can't remember how it was coz i was still a todler

Haha! Anyway you wont be able to see that even if you were older, because the tunnels were for the northeast line, which opened only a few months ago...

Originally posted by huaiwei

Haha! Anyway you wont be able to see that even if you were older, because the tunnels were for the northeast line, which opened only a few months ago...

how about now?? old enough??:D

Originally posted by TYW

how about now?? old enough??:D Of coz lah!! :D

Originally posted by huaiwei

Of coz lah!! :D

too bad the soonest i can go is years later:(

Originally posted by TYW

too bad the soonest i can go is years later:(
Har? You mean a year later is it?

Originally posted by huaiwei

Funny....what he posted was pictures of the Singapore MRT tunnels.....

haha.....you see how similar the tunnels of the NEL and Putraline are :D The only difference I notice is that the tunnels a slightly larger (obviously :D) for NEL. ;)

or that these 2 fellas din bother to read what we wrote earlier.....hehehe :laugh:

Originally posted by TYW

singapore?? he he......:bash: :bash:

i've been on singapore's MRT but i can't remember how it was coz i was still a todler

The older Spore MRT system that you been on is different from this new line lar. This new line is known as NorthEast Line which is fully automated and have windows in front and at the back like Putra LRT. ( Huaiwei - forgive me for using the word LRT :laugh: )

On the older MRT, there is a driver's compartment and you just can't take any pictures of the tunnel as there is no access in to the cab and the tunnels are pitch-dark. ;)

Originally posted by huaiwei

Har? You mean a year later is it?

i said years that means more than one year lah:(

if i go, i think i'll be staying in my aunt's house

Originally posted by szehoong

The older Spore MRT system that you been on is different from this new line lar. This new line is known as NorthEast Line which is fully automated and have windows in front and at the back like Putra LRT. ( Huaiwei - forgive me for using the word LRT :laugh: )

On the older MRT, there is a driver's compartment and you just can't take any pictures of the tunnel as there is no access in to the cab and the tunnels are pitch-dark. ;)

icic..... i think i remember it is dark

Originally posted by szehoong

haha.....you see how similar the tunnels of the NEL and Putraline are :D The only difference I notice is that the tunnels a slightly larger (obviously :D) for NEL. ;)

or that these 2 fellas din bother to read what we wrote earlier.....hehehe :laugh:

so long essays. online time so short, lazy to read

Any news about the KL Tram project anyone?? Hope they changed their mind to build another subway line rather than that Trambooosss!

I think cancelled lah. Such a mess lah if built :D

SO is it confirmed they have cancelled the plan?

I really hope it is cancelled.... I really don't want to see Kuala Lumpur more like western city....

Yes it notsuitable for KL with all those overhead wires above...it'll be messy.

Unless only for one straight route, then it's ok..like from Chinatown to Little India..not far what :)

Unless only for one straight route, then it's ok..like from Chinatown to Little India..not far what :)

No...it is still look ugly. You know what. Probably KL should implemented walkator. I think it will be a good thing n definitely will be a big hit among local people. It will cost a bomb though :D

Great the Singapore MRT NEL is built by Alstom which is responsible for the TGV.
Alstom France (http://www.alstom.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=acom/AGF_Article/News_Detail_Feature&c=AGF_Article&cid=1071052775899&rid=1035371222394&lid=en&static=yes)
What about KL's PUTRA?Their trains are by Bombardier right?

NO ugly wasteful tram lines please. :down: Our legendary KL drivers will certainly not tolerate an intruder. :ohno:

Save the money and build more underground lines. Hopefully KL will get its Circle Line someday. :D

So far now news..I believed the city hall has back down on this. Thankfully!

If just like this (elecric wireless tramway for a new touch)..it's OK though. :)
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=118771

Great the Singapore MRT NEL is built by Alstom which is responsible for the TGV.
Alstom France (http://www.alstom.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=acom/AGF_Article/News_Detail_Feature&c=AGF_Article&cid=1071052775899&rid=1035371222394&lid=en&static=yes)
What about KL's PUTRA?Their trains are by Bombardier right?
I'm not sure which company built it - maybe Comeng - which is now run by Alstom, but I'm quite sure that Putra line LRTs were built in Melbourne.

ayoyoyoyo - 7 pages on whether trams are ugly!!! cukuplah!

Great the Singapore MRT NEL is built by Alstom which is responsible for the TGV.
Alstom France (http://www.alstom.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=acom/AGF_Article/News_Detail_Feature&c=AGF_Article&cid=1071052775899&rid=1035371222394&lid=en&static=yes)
What about KL's PUTRA?Their trains are by Bombardier right?


Yup.....Putraline is by Bombardier while Starline is by Daimler-Chrysler (Daimler-Benz then) ;)

I'm not sure which company built it - maybe Comeng - which is now run by Alstom, but I'm quite sure that Putra line LRTs were built in Melbourne.

ayoyoyoyo - 7 pages on whether trams are ugly!!! cukuplah!


Putraline's LRTs are not built in Melbourne but in Vancouver if I am correct. I just knew that they are built in Canada. But Starline's LRT is definitely built in Australia.....probably in Melbourne or Brisbane......not sure :)

Starline's from OZ???WEll thats something new to me!Some how Star line looks like Melbourne's trains!

The wires are both ugly for lowrise and highrise.......they shouldn't be in KL! :rant:

Agree! Too many modes of transportation in one city (there's already the monorail, the LRT, commuter etc). What needs focussing on is the integration of them all for a seamless trasport system.. substance rather than form.

Agree! Too many modes of transportation in one city (there's already the monorail, the LRT, commuter etc). What needs focussing on is the integration of them all for a seamless trasport system.. substance rather than form.


yea....I think Klang Valley is one of the very few cities in the world which had more than 3 modes of trains! :D (5 actually!)

I have always liked trams coz they have a certain charm and you don't have to climb 200 steps to get to them. But unfortunately, I don't think KL streets are suited to them. Short of making the old district near Dataran Merdeka into one huge pedestrian mall, which would be nice.

Putraline's LRTs are not built in Melbourne but in Vancouver if I am correct. I just knew that they are built in Canada. But Starline's LRT is definitely built in Australia.....probably in Melbourne or Brisbane......not sure :)
sorry i must be confused - must be star that was built in melbourne. it was on the news in melbourne when they were being shipped to kl.

i think there should be a law prohibiting people from certain age(especially young people) from owning cars. it would encourage them to use more public transport and reduce air pollution. :runaway: :runaway: :runaway:

i think there should be a law prohibiting people from certain age(especially young people) from owning cars. it would encourage them to use more public transport and reduce air pollution. :runaway: :runaway: :runaway:


I would prefer they could simply copy or put on the system from Norway, Singapore or London...to improve the traffic in Klang Valley with the congestion charging ...rather than the current privatised highway toll system.

ok..the car owner majority...please don't stone me! let me explain...

I don't know much the current situation back home. But from my privious experince...drivers always tried to avoid tolls in klang valley, so some 'free' ways always congested along with the toll collecting highway...with 2 million cars on road everyday!

I'd seen how London had improved their traffic...very inspiring...In London every car has to pay 5 pounds for driving in or within the city centre everyday regardless which road they use. And together with the expensive petrol and the public parking fees..driving in london it's like living in hell...i could only afford to drive in the city during weekend...

Just imagine applying this into KL...let say JPJ could collect RM10 a day with 2 million cars..they could get RM 10 millions a day...they could use it to subsidise public transports commuter...says every car subsidese 2 commuters. Or they could use it to improve bus system, funding for new LRT lines, reduce pollution..etc
If some car owners still sturbonly use their car...they could simply increase the charges to RM15, RM20, RM30...
if the healthy city could only accept 200, 000..just reduce it up to among the few rich or willing (200,000) survive, just let it be then...welcome to the real 'capitalism' city...I think this could inspire those poor or young one to work harder...they have to earn more money in order to show off thier cars...good for the country economy...we are buidling aggresive, combative generation

let the rich enjoy first class highway with driving pleasure, and the poor one enjoy the 'improved' world class public transportation...

the goverment should also provide free congestion charged for disables, those really need car to survive and half-price senior citizen charge after rush hours..it should be easily adapted.. with the help of our MyKad system..

good for KL and the environment impact..[/

totally agree. same happens here in melbourne, neat n uncongested traffic system. but once again, its hard for me to imagine walking down the sun in kl..

I don't really get it. In order to improve the traffic problem, why don't they add another LRT line or get an extension to whichever line, instead of adding a new system to the public transport which is already confusing? Is that because of the budget problem? Because if they add a new system, it might create another problem, for example making the system more puzzling? I just like to know why :)
I just thought they need some consistency, like focus on one system, like singapore, MRT runs thru the whole city and that is more efficient in my opinion. Of course this is just one-person opinion :):D

I believe trams can only be implemented on a proper planned roads.If it is built over current KL roads,it will be much worse!THe traffic will definitely be horrible!Furthermore,it may also raise the accident toll as you know KL has many 'hero' drivers'(impatient)!

I believe trams can only be implemented on a proper planned roads.If it is built over current KL roads,it will be much worse!THe traffic will definitely be horrible!Furthermore,it may also raise the accident toll as you know KL has many 'hero' drivers'(impatient)!

Exactly :D:D

Would trams be good in other cities in Malaysia? Kuching would be nice i guess

the idea is a good one, however, this is based on the assumption that JPJ indeed will use the increased resources to upgrade public transportation. Also, public transportation needs to be upgraded as an initial investment even before restricted entry plans can be carried out. If not, the only people who are truely burdened are the middle-low income group who are paying to enter the city. This will also be objected by the retail sector who depend upon free flow of traffic into the city for commercial reasons. Restricting traffic will equal restricing retail business unless incredibly efficient and comfortable public transport is first in place.

This means, air-conditioned stations, air-conditioned, well-maintained public transport vehicles that run on time and on a schedule frequent enough that wait time is at a minimum and inconvinience is at a minimum.

Think why people always prefer self owned vehicles? Cuz it is convinient and comfortable. So any solution for public transport must FIRST address these 2 issues to such a redundancy that people WANT to utilise public transport over their own vehicles. Any scenario where people are 'forced' to use public transport won't work.

With the current congestion, I think throwing more busses into the fray would not help (even though it is still essential). More creative ideas are needed. Decentralising the city is one. I think more light rail is essential. Monorail seems to be the best and least intrusive. I think hugely expanding monorail coverage is the best idea! That and air-conditioning the stations. People need to be comfortable while waiting!



Just imagine applying this into KL...let say JPJ could collect RM10 a day with 2 million cars..they could get RM 10 millions a day...they could use it to subsidise public transports commuter...says every car subsidese 2 commuters. Or they could use it to improve bus system, funding for new LRT lines, reduce pollution..etc
If some car owners still sturbonly use their car...they could simply increase the charges to RM15, RM20, RM30...
if the healthy city could only accept 200, 000..just reduce it up to among the few rich or willing (200,000) survive, just let it be then...welcome to the real 'capitalism' city...I think this could inspire those poor or young one to work harder...they have to earn more money in order to show off thier cars...good for the country economy...we are buidling aggresive, combative generation

let the rich enjoy first class highway with driving pleasure, and the poor one enjoy the 'improved' world class public transportation...

the goverment should also provide free congestion charged for disables, those really need car to survive and half-price senior citizen charge after rush hours..it should be easily adapted.. with the help of our MyKad system..

good for KL and the environment impact..[/

Would trams be good in other cities in Malaysia? Kuching would be nice i guess
Original tram tracks were recently unearthed in Georgetown, Penang just before Christmas. Towns where LRT or monorail would not be practical, for heritage reasons, like Georgetown, should seriously consider closing city centre roads to traffic and replacing with on-road trams/light rail. This would be very practical as shown in various european cities with very congested, narrow streets in the town centre, like Zurich. Penang traffic is so bad that new roads should by-pass Georgetown and Gurney Drive, with traffic along central areas including Gurney Drive to be replaced by an efficient tram system, with high frequency. It is a small-enough area that would allow trams to work well, with almost blanket coverage at high patronage and hence reasonable cost. It will enhance the town's bid for World Heritage nomination, increase tourism, reduce all the negatives associated with excessive traffic. Modern light rail vehicles are stylish, smooth, fast, cheap (but not laying the tracks), disabled friendly, need not require many overhead wires and can have high capacity/length. I think trams could save Georgetown and revive its fortunes. At the moment, the place is a mess.

I think a tram line from Gurney Plaza, along Gurney Drive, Northam Road, into Georgetown to Fort Cornwallis, through KOMTAR, then looping around back to Gurney Plaza in the same direction as the current one-way traffic flow, especially through the busiest streets like Burmah Road. Where the traffic is two way, the trams can be two way, where it is one way, the trams can be one way in the same direction as current traffic. Completely replacing the horrible taxis over short distances, removing traffic entirely except for service vehicles and taxis/buses (which would only be necessary for travelling outside the tram network). Multi-storey parking lots can be built on the edge of the tram networks so that people can access the town centre. The main bus stop should be moved out of KOMTAR. KOMTAR can be used as an interchange for a monorail network, if necessary, but best avoided as I think monorail or other elevated rail will detract from the local heritage value. Without traffic, elevated tram stops (essentially light rail) can be built at ground level as part of upgraded footpaths (like near the Khoo Kongsi and Little India) and pedestrians would never have to deal with sewerage, dirt, traffic etc again. Safer, cleaner, etc. Frequency should be high, like every half an hour after 1am, 5-15 mins all other times. How? Small network, high volume. More fair than implementing a toll on private cars going into the town, and better access for all people.

I think Melaka is another possibility, but patronage may not be sufficient - perhaps one line from Porta de Santiago to the town square would be a tourist attraction, but at the moment, not really necessary.

Trams can be very useful where there is flat ground, narrow heritage streets (completely replacing car traffic, except for service vehicles), and short distances. I think this should be a serious proposal for Penang to look at, since they are struggling with dropping visitor numbers. Something drastic must be done NOW to turn its fortunes around or what's left of its heritage, which is a BIG selling point, will be lost and once lost can never be recovered. Trams/light rail are now being revived throughout other parts of the world, especially Europe and it is proven incredibly effective.

I agree KL is generally not suited to trams, but I think that there are parts where traffic-clogged major roads that go through the City Centre can sacrifice two lanes for tram services, like along Merdeka Square and all major streets - the same principle as the one I described above can be used for Bintang Walk, which is a mess at the moment. Ban cars, replace with frequent tram, overhead glass shelters, walkalators, etc. Too hot in the sun?rain? Fix it with glazed undercover walkways that stand away from heritage buildings! Jln BB, Jln Sultan Ismail, etc are all a mess in peak hour - new developments are being built in every empty plot of land without a thought for traffic or pedestrian flows. Now is the chance to seize the opporunity - when developers have enough money to buy and develop land, they should be FORCED to partly pay for surrounding public transport and pedestrian amenities.

Only 10-15 years ago, Penang was almost at the same level as KL in terms of infrastructure development. Now, it is way way way behind. It is the jewel in the crown of Malaysian towns with a heritage worth saving. But there is no political will at the Federal level to make it happen. Instead, KL looks so damn good, but other towns just stagnate (I mean growing at slower pace) - look at Ipoh, Penang, etc. Spend so much money on places like Putrajaya or Shah Alam, practically "greenfields" but not on the places that are already there and worth saving. If you want a "megaproject" that may not sound "mega" but makes a real difference, this would be one. Don't build satellites to go into space when your cities are decaying! Wrong priority IMHO. The other thing that annoys me is the haphazard development in Penang - planning controls are the easiest thing to implement - all it takes is some will on the part of the government, but instead there are too many vested interests, too often allowing the "wrong" thing to go ahead when it shouldn't.

You are right...I curse the mayor of london each time that I drive in the city centre and pay for my parking. :bleep:



Think why people always prefer self owned vehicles? Cuz it is convinient and comfortable. So any solution for public transport must FIRST address these 2 issues to such a redundancy that people WANT to utilise public transport over their own vehicles. Any scenario where people are 'forced' to use public transport won't work.

..and i hope this is not included in the 9th Malaysia plan!

i remember when i was taking a bus in Brisbane...........the timetable at the bus stop said the next bus will arrive at 8.29 am........and amazingly it did arrive at 8.29 am.............accurate isn't it :) :)