just wondering what you singaporian's think about the situation between sydney and sigapore...i personally think sydney has a better chance to become asia's next global centre but i needed to know what you singaporian's think so i began this thread.....

Both Sydney and Singapore are global centers!

What I think?

I am sceptical. But I am all ears.:cheers:

This might be helpful reading:
http://www.lboro.ac.uk/gawc/world.gif
http://www.lboro.ac.uk/gawc/rb/rb5.html

Even though I live in Sydney I think Singapore is and will continue to be Asias global centre. So long as Sydney continues to look inward and be afraid of foreigners (yes, its true), Singapore has no competition.

I believe Singapore will be no threat to Sydney ever.
Sydney is is much better city...and it is the best city in the woerld!!!

BUt for Singapore....Kuala Lumpur/ Bangkok are REALLY a big threat for her.

U will see in next 20 years....

Hm.....Sydney has been on the forefront of development since decades ago, but we have yet to see it being dominant in the Asian continent, and even in neighbouring Southeast Asia. Sydney has been unsuccessful in being Asia's Global Centre (watever that is) even when Asian cities were still plagued by all sort of problems back then. The possibility of Sydney doing it in future is, unfortunately, even bleaker in the face of Asian revival, and not just becasue of Singapore alone.

Like it or not, Singapore is an Asian city. While Singapore is probably one of the key cities in Asia, I personally believe it shares that status with several others for a long time already, and this sharing of city centres do change over time. I have to stress that Asia is a huge and varied continent, and can certainly and easily support multiple global cities. I do not see how one city's rise in prominence means the definite collapse of another.

Originally posted by jomDU

BUt for Singapore....Kuala Lumpur/ Bangkok are REALLY a big threat for her.

U will see in next 20 years.... Well, that has been the kind of thing everyone is saying for decades already, especially from people who happen to live in those cities. However, I do not think any of us can predict cities this way. Some cities have been on the forefront for centuries till today despite intense competition throughout it's history. Others fall by the wayside for all sorts of reasons.

Today, our students aged 15-16 have to study the story of Venice, a once thriving independent city that cornered trade and was an iconic city of its day. Through real-life examples like this, our people are being taught the possibilities of surviving in the face of impossible competition, and the costs of failure, from young.

The sense of being a "small nation", and the key word to that, "vulnerability", has been almost the sole theme on which practically everything is a result of. In foreign relations, we stand fiercely to our rights as a nation, depending extremely highly on official documents. In trade and commerce, we try to excel in everything we do, and when that hits a plateau, try to implant our seedlings across the globe. In every national message, and in education, our people are constantly reminded never to sit still and be complacent, because we are sitting in a turbulent place that dosent welcome us. We are reminded, that our failure to respond to these threads will mean the lost of not just our city, but our nationhood and ourselves.

The fall of London may not mean the fall of England. But the fall of Singapore as a city means the fall of Singapore as a nation. This is the reason why anyone who suggest that the city of Singapore will fail is akin to questioning the independence rights of Singaporeans, and is usually met with either fierce rebuttal or sad admittion (or anywhere in between).

Survivality is the key thing that drives Singapore to maintain its lead in Asia. What drives Sydneysiders? I would be happy to find out. ;)

Originally posted by jomDU
I believe Singapore will be no threat to Sydney ever.
Sydney is is much better city...and it is the best city in the woerld!!!

BUt for Singapore....Kuala Lumpur/ Bangkok are REALLY a big threat for her.

U will see in next 20 years....


You are undoubtedly a patriotic Australian. Highly commendable, yet somewhat typical. To claim "Sydney is a much better city...and it is the best city in the woerld[sic]!!!" without any cause or justification makes me think even less of your argument. By admitting that Singapore is more important in Asia or even globally than Sydney, does not make your country 'the loser of this battle'. It is just a simple fact.
There are arguments based on legitimate findings and there are arguments like yours that are simply made for arguments sake. Lets leave that to the twelve year olds.

Brilliant Spelling and Grammar though:baaa:

I personally think it's "Singapore".

Originally posted by jomDU

I believe Singapore will be no threat to Sydney ever.
Sydney is is much better city...and it is the best city in the woerld!!!

BUt for Singapore....Kuala Lumpur/ Bangkok are REALLY a big threat for her.

U will see in next 20 years....


I DO think Kuala Lumpur and Bangkok are "BIG".....but thats "ANOTHER" level. As I live in Bangkok "OR IF" I live in Kuala Lumpur "I WOULDN'T" dare Arrogant, haughty, overbearing talks like that...."WOULDN'T".
Not because I'm not proud with my city, but I can accepted the truth AND trying not to be "THE BEST" in everything, Yes...sometimes I DO jealous, but I won't show it out ; otherwise I would look like "a fool" OR MAYBE "MY LOW-I-Q" would be noticed from other forumers.....

Sincerely YOURS

I think that every city or country should view a "threat" as a opportunity for economic growth.

We must learn how to compete economically in a globalised world.:)

Originally posted by drwho

I think that every city or country should view a "threat" as a opportunity for economic growth.

We must learn how to compete economically in a globalised world.:) That's so very true drwho ;) No one will be spurred onwards otherwise!

And I must admit I am quite pleasantly surprised by the responses from both Hitesh and Chad. To be fair to jomDU, Sydney is indeed a great city in its own right, but as for its role in Asia vis-a-vis other Asian cities, that is still open to intelligent debate! ;)

It is unquestionable Singapore over Sydney. :)

This is my reasoning:

- Singapore has more regional (asia pacific) HQ than Sydney

- Singapore handles more regional trade (as an entrepot) than Sydney

- Singapore is a city state which of course is a country in its own rights with diplomatic relations with other countries. This city has everything a country would have. Sydney isn't even the capital.

- Sydney isn't an Asian country in my book. Australians always like to associate themselves with Asia yet they also like to claim that they are another continent - Australasia/Oceania. I do not see New Zealand making such claims. Kiasu man these people! :D

- Sydney has one of the best (if not the best) harbour in the world. And it is an important city for Australia (probably for the rest of Australasia/Oceania as well). But Asia doesn't depend too much on Sydney.

..dats my 2 cents.......

Hello ...all my friends

There are good discussion in this thread.....and indeed S'pore is no threat to Sydney as i mentioned before. Singapore is an Asian city, Sydney is Australian city. I never said that Aus is an Asian country but the thread title maybe made little bit of misundertood.

As u can read Huawei response...u can assume that Singapore is indeed always under threat.

...but what they do...they are always ready for that.

;)

Ok guys, its really really obvious, some ppl are just posting for the SAKE of pissing others off. Stop it; it isn't cool.

peace.
unless u fc=ling wanna flame..

Originally posted by hobbes

Ok guys, its really really obvious, some ppl are just posting for the SAKE of pissing others off. Stop it; it isn't cool.

peace.
unless u fc=ling wanna flame.. Woooaahh...where u hail from? ;)

I'm a Singaporean.

And no, singapore is not a threat to Sydney. Even if there is a current "threat", what sort of threat do u mean? Look @ it as competition. And competition is good of cos.




Ok guys, its really really obvious, some ppl are just posting for the SAKE of pissing others off. Stop it; it isn't cool.

peace.
unless u fc=ling wanna flame..

Oh boy!! Something about the way you talk....sounds damn local and familiar! :D

Not that it matters to you that much obviously, but if you were to become a regular poster here, you will be my dream come true!!! ;) Hope to see you more often! :cool:

I personally don't believe in the concept of a dominant city because its simply no possible for any city to thrive without the others.

As for the best city in the world....... have you driven in Sydney CBD during the 5.30 peak hour? Total gridlock. Melbourne is still my choice of a more liveable city.

Very interesting topic! I was going to ask a question like this before .. but I was worried about stirring up inter-city hostility like is so common on the Australian forums.

First, my answer - yes. I think many people here would agree with me when I say that indeed, Singapore is viewed as a competitor - maybe even our #1 competitor - in Sydney. There are other cities in asia, sure, who could be viewed as threats to our city's goals, chiefly hong kong, but Singapore is close, speaks the same language (and many others!), has a comparable govt structure and legal system, etc. So, yes, you are definitely thought of as a threat.

But, in the long term, I don't believe the cities will really compete in the same areas. Singapore is so strong in electronics, manufacturing, shipping, and asian dealmaking. Sydney will be the centre for law, finance, accounting, services, that sort of thing. Singapore will always have better shopping. Sydney will always make more movies. We can both win. BKK, KL competition for singapore? Don't make me laugh. Even Tokyo is irrelevant - it's japanese-only.

Now let me reply to some of these quite nasty points:

- Singapore has more regional (asia pacific) HQ than Sydney

Are you sure about this? Sydney has made great advances in the last 10 years.

- Singapore handles more regional trade (as an entrepot) than Sydney

Definitely. My Apple computers always come to me from Singapore! :) this is one of your strengths.

- Singapore is a city state which of course is a country in its own rights with diplomatic relations with other countries. This city has everything a country would have. Sydney isn't even the capital.

Ha - it's not the OFFICIAL capital, but it's basically the capital in practical terms. And this is irrelevant - Sydney has full access to diplomatic relations established by Canberra.

- Sydney isn't an Asian country in my book. Australians always like to associate themselves with Asia yet they also like to claim that they are another continent - Australasia/Oceania. I do not see New Zealand making such claims. Kiasu man these people!

Now .. I find this comment almost offensive. Yes, we are on another continent. That is an inarguable geographical fact. And yes, we are closest to Asia for trading purposes. Like you, we are a former British colony. We speak the same language, have the same institutions .. what's the difference? Singapore has made its entire fortune bridging the gap between East and West. For you to say we're not "asian" enough .. pure hypocrisy .. bordering on racism ...

So, you line up with Malaysia to have us excluded from ASEAN, huh?

- Sydney has one of the best (if not the best) harbour in the world. And it is an important city for Australia (probably for the rest of Australasia/Oceania as well). But Asia doesn't depend too much on Sydney.

I think Australia's vast mineral resources make Australia a little more valuable in Asia than you might care to admit. We just signed a single gas deal with China worth a third of your whole GDP. Please, don't be so insulting ..

Er.....hk-star, remember that those comments you quoted were actually made by a Malaysian...not a Singaporean! :D but nonetheless, that is just his personal opinion I suppose.

I did find many many similarities between the two cities, so much so that in this thread in the world forums Which 2 cities are practically twins? (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71880), I did mention this city pair. This was what I said there: I actually think Singapore and Sydney are more similar. Both have the same population base (4m), the same configuration of the CBD (Elongated), both have a harbour with a major arts centre acting as a landmark with a bridge beside it (obviously the sg version is puny. :D), both are predominatly English speaking with a multicultural base, both have roughly the same number of highrises in the CBD, and both are ranked quite close to each other in the ROS! :D

If I may add, both also had long periods of British influence, and both are quite cordial towards the US in recent years. Both had roots as cities grown largely with the help of immigrants, and both had to watch out for the welfare of the over-dominated "natives"? ;)

Ah! Huaiwei. Maybe I didn't read my source closely enough. I am relieved a native Singaporean didn't speak those words .... I will have to look out for "malaysians" I guess. I did not know they had internet there, haha

Yes, for a long time I have thought of Singapore as a complementary sister city of Sydney. I like the two cities very much and am always reading the news about Singapore with great interest .. I have friends there too ...

And speaking of other threads, I was the one a while ago arguing that Australia should build a bridge all the way to Singapore! From north QL to PNG, over to Indo, hop along the islands and then across the Strait .. we could call it the "South Eastern Highway" .. but I guess we have to wait for PNG and Indo to stabilize before we can even think about that. Believe me though, it's technically possible... maybe one day!

anyway .. thanks for reply ..

hk

But according to the City Status around the world...

Singapore is alpha city... while Sydney is only a beta city...

Ah, that old study. It always gets mentioned in a conversation like this. Well, in short, I think that study is rubbish. I don't like its methods, and I don't like its conclusions. It measures 5 things:

- mentions in other studies: Sydney beats Singapore in this one.

- number of accounting firms: Sydney beats Sg.

- banking firms: Sg beats Syd.

- Advertising firms: Equal.

- Legal firms: Sg beat Syd.

So, because of rankings, out of a possible maximum of 12, Singapore gets 10, and Sydney gets 9. Hardly an incontestable rout there. And it's a very narrow definition of a "word city", how many international coporate service firms are there. I especially disagree with the advertising component. I don't think the advertising business has "regional head offices" like banking and legal. Most countries have their own advertising, because of language and localisation issues.

The study is old, too - over 4 years - and its conclusions are questionable. Beijing and Shanghai aren't even "beta" cities. Neither is your KL. Are you telling me you think that's right, in 2003, that China has no "world city" other than HK?

Furthermore - Sydney's GDP is much, much larger than Singapore's. Even Melbourne's is larger. Now, I will agree that Sg is a world city - it's a strategically placed hub to SE Asia. But Sydney has been advancing fast, especially since the 2000 olympics. Who knows what an updated study might show.

So, anyway, in short, a single study doesn't prove anything. It annoys me when people quote this as if it's the final answer .. it's not the UN saying this, just a couple of researchers!

hk

Well, with regards to that research, I also find it interesting that most people forget it was actually done by British researchers to assess the importance of the world's cities relative to London only.

30 Jan 2004

By Bryan Lee

SYMANTEC, the world's largest maker of computer anti-virus software, is moving some corporate functions to Singapore from Sydney and has based its Asia-Pacific vice-president here.

The US-based company, which makes Norton computer security software, yesterday said it was moving functions, such as human resource and finance management, to Singapore from Australia so as to be closer to the faster-growing markets of the region.

President and chief operating officer John Schwarz said that within the Asia-Pacific region excluding Japan, markets such as China and Singapore were the main drivers of growth.

Hence the company decided nine months ago to base its top regional executive, Mr Vince Steckler, here instead of Sydney where his predecessor was based.

Singapore was chosen for its stability, multi-lingual workforce and central location in a region which stretches from India to South Korea to New Zealand.

Mr Schwarz added that an added benefit was that Singapore was home to the regional headquarters of many multinational corporations. The company derives about half its global revenues from enterprises and the other half from consumers.

The Asia-Pacific region, excluding Japan, contributes about 5 per cent of Symantec's total revenues. For the quarter ended Jan 2, sales in this region grew 24 per cent.

Mr Schwarz expects the region to grow faster than other world markets as countries such as China and Malaysia crack down on software piracy, he told Bloomberg News.

'We are seeing serious efforts on the part of large Asian countries to curb piracy and make the environment for commercial software a viable proposition,' Mr Schwarz said in an interview in Singapore.

As consumers in countries such as China become wealthier and buy more personal computers, they will also need security products, he added. 'Asia's going to become an increasingly important part of our overall business, perhaps overtaking Europe in a few years.'

Hardly here of such moves, but at least its quite a major company? ;)

US-based Cisco says it can serve region better from here

3 July 2003

By Bryan Lee , Straits Times

DOWN UNDER has proved too far down under for United States-based Cisco Systems. The computer networking giant has relocated its Asia-Pacific testing laboratory from Sydney to Singapore, to be nearer Japan and other major Asian markets.

The move meant Cisco had to fork out US$40 million (S$70.7 million) on networking equipment to set up the Asia-Pacific Network Solutions Integrated Test Engineering (NSITE) lab.

But as the vice-president of NSITE labs, Mr Ed Carney, explains, it is worth it.

He said yesterday at the lab's launch that Singapore is 'ideally located', as it is much nearer the company's important customers in Asia, including telecommunication carriers such as SingTel.

And Mr Carney has discovered at first-hand how much distance matters.

Sydney's distance from the rest of the region became apparent to him on a business trip to Australia. He found to his surprise that 'dropping by' on a client in Tokyo meant taking a 12-hour flight from the Sydney lab, which Cisco set up four years ago.

A direct flight from Singapore to Tokyo takes just seven hours. Indeed, barely two years ago Prime Minister Goh Chok Tong said in a National Day speech that the Republic had to become a hub for the greater Asian region bound by a seven-hour flight radius.

Mr Carney flew to Singapore from the US for the launch yesterday.

Stressing how important it was for the lab to be near the company's Asian customers, he said these clients last year accounted for US$3.78 billion, or a fifth of Cisco's total revenue of US$18.9 billion.

Distance matters because one of the lab's aims is to address specific client needs, which differ from country to country. Cisco needs to use 'the skill-sets of people in the region as they can better represent the requirements' of the region, Mr Carney said.

He also cited the Republic's 'highly-educated' population and 'good and supportive' government policies as reasons to site the lab here.

The Singapore lab is the only one in Asia and joins two in the US and three in Europe.

And every three months, Cisco intends to pump in another US$2 million to US$5 million to keep the Singapore lab up to date.

It occupies 10,000 sq ft in Cisco's office in Capital Tower in Robinson Road, and is staffed by 10 engineers. Cisco employs 350 staff engaged in regional headquarter functions and coordinating manufacturing operations.

The test lab will also provide training opportunities for IT professionals.

Guest of honour, Economic Development Board managing director Ko Kheng Hwa, said that he expects total business spending by the infocomms and media services sector this year to hold steady at last year's $870 million. This is 'good news' in the light of the Iraq war, the Sars outbreak, and the global downturn in the industry.

'The better news is that more good jobs will be created in this cluster. Nearly 3,200 professional and skilled jobs are expected to be created when these investment projects are fully implemented,' he said, adding that this would be a third higher than last year.

http://it.asia1.com.sg/newsdaily/news001_20030703.html

Things like that Cisco move may be a thing of the past since Australia just signed a free trade agreement that put IT on an equal footing with the US for the first time.

Originally posted by Homeroids

Things like that Cisco move may be a thing of the past since Australia just signed a free trade agreement that put IT on an equal footing with the US for the first time. But Singapore has an FTA with both Australia and the US too as well, isnt it? ;)

Oh yeah, for sure, but from an Aus to US point of view, in IT anyway, it really helps AUS out.

Singapore and AUS are great trading partners. Sometimes, living in Perth, we feel closer to Singapore in terms of business, especially during the summer months. The 3 hr time difference with the eastern states is a real pain for business in Perth.

Interesting replies I see......I didn't check this thread since Sept as I thought my comments were 'personal'. Someone here might be a bit blur and didn't read these words: "dats my 2 cents".

Are you sure about this? Sydney has made great advances in the last 10 years.

That isn't a very factual rebuttal. Here's my not too factual answer: "I am pretty sure and you could quote me on that."




Ha - it's not the OFFICIAL capital, but it's basically the capital in practical terms. And this is irrelevant - Sydney has full access to diplomatic relations established by Canberra.

Well......Sydney has 'full access' but it is still not Canberra - the capital. And in comparison with Singapore, well......Singapore is a COUNTRY. While Sydney had 'Consul Generals' Singapore has Embassies. The Consulate representatives could only hold certain powers and the decision makers would still be based in Canberra. If I am from Melbourne (or if anyone from Melbourne) saw you saying this - "basically the capital in practical terms", I am sure this thread would be 'interesting'.




Now .. I find this comment almost offensive. Yes, we are on another continent. That is an inarguable geographical fact. And yes, we are closest to Asia for trading purposes. Like you, we are a former British colony. We speak the same language, have the same institutions .. what's the difference? Singapore has made its entire fortune bridging the gap between East and West. For you to say we're not "asian" enough .. pure hypocrisy .. bordering on racism ...

I am speaking in terms of Geography not bordering on politics. Why are you so 'excited' seeing this? I said "Sydney isn't an Asian country in my book" because it is simply NOT an Asian country. period. Nothing to argue here and there's no hidden agenda.

When I say "Australians always like to associate themselves with Asia yet they also like to claim that they are another continent - Australasia/Oceania" - its true. Remember John Howard saying that they would be 'US's sheerif' to Asia? Or that Australia would stike pre-emtively or would make arrest of terrorist in other sovereign countries within South East Asia. Is this the definition of 'friendly'?





So, you line up with Malaysia to have us excluded from ASEAN, huh?

Well....ASEAN stands for Association of South East Asia Nations which obviously Australia isn't part of. Not that we don't wanna include Australia in but we CAN'T as Australia isn't part of SOUTH EAST ASIA! :D And you would see Australia in Asian Games for that matter as Australia isn't part of Asia. How could I be 'racist' bout that? This is geography my friend......






Please, don't be so insulting ..
Ah! Huaiwei. Maybe I didn't read my source closely enough. I am relieved a native Singaporean didn't speak those words .... I will have to look out for "malaysians" I guess. I did not know they had internet there, haha

Please define 'insult'. You in your statement blatantly and directly insult Malaysians. I DID NOT insult Sydney as what I say are just the truth.

So it is perfectly fine to insult Malaysians and not Singaporeans? Talk about racism! :ohno:

Oh......we do not have Internet here. In fact we do not have computers........just that most of the world's Pentium 4 chips are made at Intel's 'sweatshop' factories in Penang that's all! :D

Originally posted by szehoong

Well....ASEAN stands for Association of South East Asia Nations which obviously Australia isn't part of. Not that we don't wanna include Australia in but we CAN'T as Australia isn't part of SOUTH EAST ASIA! :D And you would see Australia in Asian Games for that matter as Australia isn't part of Asia. How could I be 'racist' bout that? This is geography my friend......Er...nothing againt anyone, but if Australia considers itself as part of Asia, is it prepared to field a team in the SEA Games? Also, are the existing members of ASEAN prepared to take it in?

Take the case of Timor Leste, which initually had problems with Indonesia at the time of its independence, but when those problems are generally resolved, and diplomatic relations established, you can see that it is being drawn into the ASEAN family already, without question. In the most recent SEA games, they have already started participating as a guest team as well. Geography do play a major part in the almost automatic assumption that Timor Leste should join ASEAN. The same would explain why Australia is not?

Originally posted by huaiwei

Er...nothing againt anyone, but if Australia considers itself as part of Asia, is it prepared to field a team in the SEA Games? Also, are the existing members of ASEAN prepared to take it in?

Take the case of Timor Leste, which initually had problems with Indonesia at the time of its independence, but when those problems are generally resolved, and diplomatic relations established, you can see that it is being drawn into the ASEAN family already, without question. In the most recent SEA games, they have already started participating as a guest team as well. Geography do play a major part in the almost automatic assumption that Timor Leste should join ASEAN. The same would explain why Australia is not?



Precisely! :okay:

Even joining ASEAN isn't that easy. I remember how tedious the process of admitting Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos and Myanmar into ASEAN in the late 80s and early 90s although these countries automatically qualifies geographycally. ;0

Originally posted by szehoong

Precisely! :okay:

Even joining ASEAN isn't that easy. I remember how tedious the process of admitting Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos and Myanmar into ASEAN in the late 80s and early 90s although these countries automatically qualifies geographycally. ;0 Yeah....even when we faced opposition especialy from EU members with regards to the Myanmar issue. The admittion of Timor Leste was despite internal squabbles. Therefore, be it pressure externally or internally, it seems like the geographic boundaries of how we define Southeast Asia today is more or less deeply entenched in our conscousness?

I'm surprised that I didn't latch on to this thread earlier...hmmm...

My thoughts, in no particular order:

- ASEAN is a grouping of basket case countries, with a handful of exceptions.

- Sydney is the capital of Australia, my foot. Melbourne WAS the capital of Australia from 1901 to 1922, has more Australian prime ministers than any other city and leads Sydney in many aspects.

- Sydney is Australia's financial centre. It has the largest futures market in Asia (even larger than Tokyo), and the ASX is larger than many regional stock exchanges by market capitalisation.

- Sydney is not the manufacturing heart of Australia - Melbourne is (Melbourne even has a busier port than Sydney, so how can you compare regional trade stats between Sydney and Sing?!)! On the other hand, Singapore's electronics manufacturing accounts for a huge percentage of its GDP, whereas both Sydney and Melbourne live higher up the "value chain", with a larger percentage of the economy devoted to the provision of services. Each city has relative strengths and weaknesses.

So the point is - how can you compare Sydney and Singapore? They are two cities doing very different things, and each important in their own markets/regions. Singapore is the financial centre of SEA. Sydney is the financial centre of Australia. But Tokyo and HK are probably more important financial centres than either (Shanghai probably not in the same league as HK and Tokyo, but in the future, and it is also important in its own market).

So I would say that neither is a "threat" to the other - BUT - they are competitors in many regards.

=======

Some random stats on NSW's economy:
The New South Wales (NSW) economy averaged more than four per cent annual growth over the six years to 1999-2000 and performed particularly strongly during the Asian economic crisis in the latter part of the 1990s.

NSW Gross State Product grew by 2.7 per cent in real terms in 2000-01, to A$239 billion. This represented 36 per cent of the gross domestic product (GDP) of the Australian economy.

Gross State Product was larger than each of the national economies of Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia, the Philippines and New Zealand in 2001.

The State sustained strong growth and low inflation throughout the late 1990s. Over the decade, the Australian and NSW economies grew faster than each of the G7 nations: the United States, Japan, United Kingdom, Germany, France, Italy and Canada. From 1992-93 to 2000-01 NSW's growth compared well.

Positive competition is good for both cities....That's no point arguing who's better as both got their strong points.....

I think sometimes "threats" can be good in a sense as it push people to plan ahead and improve on things.....Of course there will be some case of companies shifting....but I think that's nothing compared to the FDI "blackhole" of China......

So my point is if we could compete positively....all of us will be better off....if we try to "kill each other"...we end up losing everything to the mighty China.....I sure we know which is the better route....:)

Ahh thanks for raising this thread up again.

Good points but the problem is people are always wanting to compete with us. For instance this thread wasnt even started by a Singaporean. -_-

Ahh thanks for raising this thread up again.

Good points but the problem is people are always wanting to compete with us. For instance this thread wasnt even started by a Singaporean. -_-

Haha...The competition thing seems like a common thing to us....so much so we tend to see it in a more "bochap" manner...... :)

I think it's good when people have the desire to compete with us because it shows that we are really something......:D

It also gives us a chance to really see how we stand against our competition and hence allows us to improve on certain things continuously.....and hence continue to innovate and move ahead of our competitors.......:D

I basically dont think Singapore will be Singapore without the compeition we have all the time. It is part of our survival culture, wasent it?

I basically dont think Singapore will be Singapore without the compeition we have all the time. It is part of our survival culture, wasent it?

I guess meritocracy has something to do with this.....we have to compete among ourselves......:D

We have a new Champion this week! Congratulations to Singapore, who won with nealy 54% of the votes. It was a tough battle, with London ahead for most of the week. But the Singapore forumers really came through and convinced the audience to vote for their city.

This week we will see Sydney challenging Singapore for the title. Let's hear everything you know about your favorite city.. architecture, lifestyle, waterfront, skyscrapers, culture, etc. Your main objective is to convince those who are reading this thread to vote for your favorite city, and that your city is the Ultimate City.

So lets welcome the Sydney crowd to this debate, and I hope you Singapore guys still have your energy!

Same rules apply as last week:
I am going to be moderating this thread, and doing my best to make sure the only cities being debated at the time are the two current cities. Also, all the typical forum rules of good sportsmanship apply. If I find any foul language directed towards a person or a thread, I will remove one vote for the offending city.

Also, this is mearly for the fun of it, so dont take this so seriously!!

Here are the final results of last weeks' thread:
Week 2 London vs Singapore.
London 25 votes, 46.30% of votes cast.
Singapore 29 votes, 53.70% votes cast.

Oh really....nice to hear that Singapore won. Do you have the link to the London vs Singapore thread?

Yup, its locked, but you can still use your info that you have compiled in that thread. you can find it here:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=1684242

Why was the last "London vs Singapore" thread in North American Skybar?

What is Sydney's population and when was it founded?

Singapore was founded in 1819 and became independent in 1965. It has 4 million people, with about 1 million being foreigners.

Lets have some pics of the skyline:)

http://www.sky.s64.pl/home/W/Sing/sa07.jpg
http://www.sky.s64.pl/home/W/Sing/sbn19.jpg
http://img51.photobucket.com/albums/v157/baqthier/sgswissnite2.jpg
http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/85skyline_panosmall.jpg

Let the challenge begin!

http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/538operahouse6.jpg
http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/85esplanade.jpg

Which other country with almost no natural resources ,lead by a 36-year old lawyer can climb from the status of developing country to developed country in 20 short years?

I am not going to vote because its too hard!!

SYDNEY = fantastic skyline and amazing setting on the harbour. Has great and eclectic nightlife comparanble to any global city in the world. It does have its problems though. Sydney is amazingly ICONIC with its bridge and opera house. It also does a fine Olympics!

SINGAPORE = truly a tropical wonderland, what other city over 3 million and with less than 500square kilometers to grow in would contain so many beautifull parks, gardens and remnant tropical rainforest so close to the city. Fantastic shopping abounds as well as great public transport. Singapore has some of the best asian food available (and I like my asian food).

Both cities have organic and colonial street patterns and interesting history from Fort Silso to Fort Dennison, from Singapore's chinatown to Sydney's Rocks.

As you can see I love both and cannot decide which is best - THEY ARE BOTH GREAT!!!!

JAYT

What is Sydney's population and when was it founded?

Singapore was founded in 1819 and became independent in 1965. It has 4 million people, with about 1 million being foreigners.

Lets have some pics of the skyline:)

Sydney has over 4.2 million founded 1788 of course.

Sydney has over 4.2 million founded 1788 of course.

With about 1.25million being born overseas. ;)

singapore had a population of 4.1852 million in 2003, and 3.4373 million of them were singapore residents.


singapore's other skyline just opposite the main one consisting mostly of hotels and shopping, but with 7 office towers. and of course the esplanade theatres.
http://img16.photobucket.com/albums/v47/sybarite/IMGP2364.jpg

i voted for singapore ;)

I would be careful of using history Homeroids: in the LDN vs Singapore thread We couldn't "compare" the 2,000 year history of London to the 200 year history of Singapore. Nor could we compare quantity or quality in the end.

I still don't understand why Jada made a thread in the Singapore Skybar and not in the UK & Ireland Skybar about this thread but Justme had to. Hell if hadn't it would have been a biased one way thread - thank god you don't run the elections. The Electoral Commission would come down on you like a bag of bricks ;)


Using the same quasi-logic of our fellow forumers I'm choosing Singapore :)


One last thing how is the PAP doing? Nice being under a totalitarian "democracy" ;)

Thats a nice pic heirloom! :eek2:

Did you take it? I could have posted it in the other thread yesterday. Too bad its over;)

hmmmm...seems that Sydney & Singapore are more or less evenly matched in historey and population. I've only been to Sydney once 10 years back and I love the waterfront, especially at The Rocks:cool:

Here are 2 pano's of Sydney I took when visiting there in March:

http://members.iinet.net.au/~fratello/sydpano1s.jpg

http://members.iinet.net.au/~fratello/sydpano2s.jpg

I didn't realise how big World Tower is.

I voted Sydney. Easily the best skyline, beaches, nightlife, enertainment(Sporting and cultural) and the best waterfront

yep i took it :P was just looking through my photobucket and found that one.

the energy australia building looks quite pretty. any more of it?

yet another skyline. taken in the wee hours of the morning therefore dark. also it was just after the niccoll highway crash.
http://img16.photobucket.com/albums/v47/sybarite/singapore/IMGP4319_1.jpg

Whats the grand total office space for Singapore and Sydney (excluding retail outlets, car parks, parks and any other non-office desk space)....

Singapore has several distinct skylines:

Financial District
Orchard
Novena
Newton
Tanglin
River Valley
Marina

Not counting the suburbs ,with over 10,000 highrise public flats.
Private condos and apartments not included.

I was asking for floor space not districts :|

I wasn't answering your question.

fuck shitting on they are both great cities!!! enough said....

Great panos posted on pg1!

Show us your main street.

Heres ORCHARD ROAD in Singapore, a street dedicated to shopping. Its lined with malls and hotels and if you like electronics you should be able to get a good deal (although there are cheaper electronics goods in other shops). The bigger malls close at 9pm, while Borders closes at 11pm everynight (midnight on weekends). There are some 24 hr cafes as well like Swensons, Monkey's Bar, Mandarin Hotel Chatterbox, Mr Bean Cafe, or if you like local Asian hawker stuff, you can head to Newton or S-11.

Now the pics
pics by baqthier
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/504/9orchardrd8.jpg
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/504/9orchardrd7.jpg
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/504/9orchardrd6.jpg
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/504/9orchardrd5.jpg
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/504/9orchardrd4.jpg
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/504/9orchardrd3.jpg
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/504/9orchardrd2.jpg


My pics
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/2/103dscn1095-med.jpg
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/2/103dscn1096.jpg http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/2/103dscn1117.jpg
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/2/103dscn1130.jpg
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/2/103dscn1098.jpg
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/2/103dscn1120.jpg http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/2/103dscn1101-med.jpg
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/2/103dscn1127.jpg


pics and description by heirloom
paragon
http://img16.photobucket.com/albums/v47/sybarite/shopping%20malls/IMGP4445.jpg
http://img16.photobucket.com/albums/v47/sybarite/shopping%20malls/IMGP4485.jpg
atrium of paragon's extension
http://img16.photobucket.com/albums/v47/sybarite/shopping%20malls/IMGP4455.jpg
http://img16.photobucket.com/albums/v47/sybarite/shopping%20malls/IMGP4450.jpg
a little shopping at liat towers' podium - zara, hermès (dunno the accent is up or down), esprit, starbucks, and dunno what
http://img16.photobucket.com/albums/v47/sybarite/shopping%20malls/IMGP3545.jpg
ngee ann city
http://img16.photobucket.com/albums/v47/sybarite/shopping%20malls/IMGP4490.jpg
http://img16.photobucket.com/albums/v47/sybarite/shopping%20malls/IMGP4481.jpg
http://img16.photobucket.com/albums/v47/sybarite/shopping%20malls/IMGP4482.jpg
http://img16.photobucket.com/albums/v47/sybarite/shopping%20malls/IMGP3769.jpg
http://img16.photobucket.com/albums/v47/sybarite/shopping%20malls/IMGP4431.jpg

I would be careful of using history Homeroids: in the LDN vs Singapore thread We couldn't "compare" the 2,000 year history of London to the 200 year history of Singapore. Nor could we compare quantity or quality in the end.

I still don't understand why Jada made a thread in the Singapore Skybar and not in the UK & Ireland Skybar about this thread but Justme had to. Hell if hadn't it would have been a biased one way thread - thank god you don't run the elections. The Electoral Commission would come down on you like a bag of bricks ;)


Using the same quasi-logic of our fellow forumers I'm choosing Singapore :)


One last thing how is the PAP doing? Nice being under a totalitarian "democracy" ;)

NickTaylor.. I did create a thread in the Uk skybar: no one posted in it though so it sunk to page three. Not my fault.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=106577

Singapore!!!!! Singapore wins over any city, anytime!

here are some panos from the singarama thread in the singapore forum by various forumers. i'm assuming they dont mind that i post them here.


by huaiwei - i think this picture is rather good representation of singapore. greenery and skyscrapers abound and the picture is stunningly well proportioned.
http://home.pacific.net.sg/~teo10131/photos/City%202c.JPG




another pano by huaiwei. you can see the orchard road skyline behind the HDB flats.
http://home.pacific.net.sg/~teo10131/photos/City%201c.JPG




here are another two panos by cliff - the first one showing the beautiful town of bishan
http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/85bishan_pano.jpg


this second one captures about a quarter or a third of singapore.
http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/85singapore_pano-med.jpg

Singapore of course!!!

The comparison is not fair - I mean Singapore is a city state - complete within itself while Sydney is just a city in a big country.

Singapore has / had:

A former tallest building in the world outside N. America (OUB Centre)
Two former tallest buildings in SEA (OCBC Centre ,Cathay Building)
A former tallest purely residential tower in SEA (Pearlbank Apartments)
A former highest residences in Asia (International Plaza)
A former tallest hotel in the world (Swissotel the Stamford)
Second tallest lighthouse in the world (Bedok Lighthouse (80m) )
Largest avairy
Tallest man-made waterfall
Largest fountain
World's first fully automated heavy rail line
First skyscraper in SEA (Cathay Building)
First building in Malaya to be fully air-conditioned (MacDonald House)
Former biggest car-assembly plant in SEA (Ford Factory)
One of the tallest clock towers in SEA (Vic. T & CH)

Did anyone say challenge?

http://home.exetel.com.au/miliux/Skyline%20from%20North.jpg

http://home.exetel.com.au/miliux/The%20Harbour%20Skyline-1.jpg

http://home.exetel.com.au/miliux/Harbour%20Night%202.jpg

http://home.exetel.com.au/miliux/NYE%20ready-1.jpg

http://home.exetel.com.au/miliux/Red%20Bridge1.jpg

http://home.exetel.com.au/miliux/cityoflight-mod2.JPG

The comparison is not fair - I mean Singapore is a city state - complete within itself while Sydney is just a city in a big country.

i think singapore and sydney are rather comparable cities as they've got similar populations and similar gdp/capita. how would being a city state affect the comparison?

Some beautiful pictures from Esplanade opening........

http://www.esplanade.com/images/web/press_centre/press_centre/opening/gallery01.jpg

http://www.esplanade.com/images/web/press_centre/press_centre/opening/gallery05.jpg

http://www.esplanade.com/images/web/press_centre/press_centre/opening/gallery06.jpg

http://www.esplanade.com/images/web/press_centre/press_centre/opening/gallery12.jpg

@babystan, very nice! :eek:

http://pachome1.pacific.net.sg/~mippy/DSCN0644.jpg
http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v133/RafflesCity/DSCN2070.jpg
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/500/103bsb.jpg

Lessons on how to inject instant art culture into Singapore:

1. Educate the population on still life. Build a large size inspirational tropical fruit and chop it in two.
2. Educate the population on foreign language. Call it The Esplanade.

Don't get me wrong - I love your Es-plah-nayd and I love Singapore. In terms of opportunities job-wise I'd be giving Singapore a big tick.

what's foreign language got to do with esplanade? anyway the government has done alot more than that for some instant art culture ;) there are annual art and film fests, and perhaps even the food fests and shopping fests and great singapore sales contribute to instant art culture (fashion = art good food = greater appreciation skills ? greater appreciation of art).

the esplanade is not the only arts venue in singapore. there is the venerable victoria concert hall and theatres.

http://itclub.vs.moe.edu.sg/cyberfair2003/images/landmarks-victoriatheatre-2.jpg


http://itclub.vs.moe.edu.sg/cyberfair2003/images/landmarks-victoriatheatre-1.jpg





the recently opened arts house (www.theartshouse.com.sg) is a much smaller but no less significant venue. what it lacks in size, it makes up for in history. built in 1819, it was occupied by the temenggong of johor. then blar blar blarblar years passed and it became the parliament house and was the office of lee kuan yew. and finally in 2004 it is converted into the latest arts venue in singapore.

http://www.theartshouse.com.sg/gallery/nomorewalls/nomorewalls1.jpg

http://www.theartshouse.com.sg/gallery/nomorewalls/nomorewalls17.jpg

i absolutely adore this intimate room with blue led chandeliers
http://www.theartshouse.com.sg/gallery/nomorewalls/nomorewalls11.jpg



then you have kallang theatre built in the 70s. it's ugly but useful. no good pics to post of it. there are a number of other venues such as the dbs arts centre, substation, jubilee hall but i don't know them all.

for more information on the singapore arts festival 2004, click here (www.singaporeartsfest.com). it's going on now, from 28 may to 20th june.

the urban dream capsule thingy is at raffles city this year also :) i'm sure you australians will know what i'm talking about (www.urbandream.com) :).

Sydney
http://home.iprimus.com.au/allicit/images/sydneyaerial.jpg
http://home.iprimus.com.au/allicit/sydney.10434692.jpg
http://www.sfondionline.net/images/sfondi/citta/460025%20-%20Dusk,%20Sydney%20skyline.JPG
http://www.udel.edu/studyabroad/pix/australia/diane/sydney_skyline.jpg
http://www.johnshephard.com/freebies/desktop_wallpaper/AUN35102_1280x1024.jpg
http://www.german-helicopter.com/statdispl/orig/jetranger_skyline_sydney.jpg
http://members.ams.chello.nl/f.hazel/Img0008.jpg
http://www.************.com/images/A-02068.jpg
http://www.dalestuart.com/Photos_Oz/Oz1_Gallery/thumbnails1/_oz1_039-041.jpg

North Sydney to Sydney
http://www.hakane.com/australia/sydney003.jpg

Some Inner City Shopping...
QVB
http://members.ams.chello.nl/f.hazel/Img0009.jpghttp://www.travelpictures.co.uk/TP/AUSTRALIA/Sydney/230540d%20SydneyStore.jpg

I spose i should do my bit for my city...
:)

http://members.iinet.net.au/~demanjo/public_html/images/2.jpg
http://members.iinet.net.au/~demanjo/public_html/images/7.jpg
http://members.iinet.net.au/~demanjo/public_html/images/9.jpg

Sorry if you have already seen these, these are just some of my favourites... :)

THIS is Singapore
http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/85skyline_panosmall.jpg
http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/85singland.jpg
http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/855a.jpg
http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/85detailed.jpg

Not only the city is beautiful, but the commies too!!
http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/85greenery.jpg
http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/85commie.jpg

Sydney,

I took these one evening they had the sky show...
http://home.iprimus.com.au/allicit/Images/DSC00093.02.jpg
http://home.iprimus.com.au/allicit/Images/DSC00004.02.jpg
http://home.iprimus.com.au/allicit/Images/DSC00079.02.jpg
http://home.iprimus.com.au/allicit/Images/DSC00061.02.jpg

Here are couple I snapped in Singapore from my room on the 53rd floor of the Swissotel.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/allicit/Images/DSC00036.02.jpg
http://home.iprimus.com.au/allicit/Images/DSC00039.02.jpg

Artistic shot of OUB
http://home.iprimus.com.au/allicit/Images/DSC00020.02.jpg

the singapore flyer - world's largest ferris wheel to be completed by 2005. by kisho kurokawa.

http://www.am.joneslanglasalle.com/News/News%20Release%20Eflyer/2003/07jul/SGFlyer.jpg




the linc apartments
http://www.keppelland.com.sg/img/res/singapore/pic_thelinc.jpg



urbana apartments
http://www.keppelland.com.sg/img/res/singapore/pic_urbana.jpg





pics by rafflescity i think - the novena area

the setia

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/500/103whitecondo.jpg




Moulmein Rise
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/503/103moulmein.jpg

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/503/103moulmein2.jpg


novena square (finally an office building!)
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/503/103novsquare.jpg



united square (anohter office building) with novena square behind
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/500/103DSCN2240.jpg




the very gorgeous lincoln modern (apartment iwthi the orange stripe). the first condominium in asia directly marketed at gays and lesbians
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/500/103DSCN2230.jpg



and again
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/500/103DSCN2242.jpg




great eastern apartments (another twin on its left) and united square at the back
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/500/103DSCN2243.jpg



guess the buildings (yellow one is apartment)
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/500/103DSCN2294.jpg


more apartments in novena
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/500/103DSCN2233.jpg




all novena pics by rafflescity i think... aren't pretty apartments an indicator of a great city?

Not to forget the 'sail condos' ,the BFC ,ORQ and the whole new Downtown.;)

Some nice "touristy" stuff.....:D

Cityscape

http://www.ndp.org.sg/images/photos/full_image/uniquely_singapore/cityscape/cityscape_1.jpg

http://www.ndp.org.sg/images/photos/full_image/uniquely_singapore/cityscape/cityscape_2.jpg

http://www.ndp.org.sg/images/photos/full_image/uniquely_singapore/cityscape/cityscape_3.jpg

http://www.ndp.org.sg/images/photos/full_image/uniquely_singapore/cityscape/cityscape_4.jpg

http://www.ndp.org.sg/images/photos/full_image/uniquely_singapore/cityscape/cityscape_5.jpg

http://www.ndp.org.sg/images/photos/full_image/uniquely_singapore/cityscape/cityscape_6.jpg

http://www.ndp.org.sg/images/photos/full_image/uniquely_singapore/cityscape/cityscape_7.jpg

http://www.ndp.org.sg/images/photos/full_image/uniquely_singapore/cityscape/cityscape_8.jpg

http://www.ndp.org.sg/images/photos/full_image/uniquely_singapore/cityscape/cityscape_9.jpg

Some random shots of Singapore
http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/525/85skyline_eve.jpg
http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/85sunsethume.jpg
http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/85palm_trees.jpg
http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/85skyline.jpg
http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/852000000.jpg
http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/85100000.jpg

Sydney & Singapore both have great skylines - amongst the best in the world. Now lets look at some projects coming up in the not too distant future.

SINGAPORE

Marina Boulevard Apartments - 245m
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/3130/2829marina.jpg

1 Raffles Quay - 245m
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/3130/2829226098_one_raffles_quay.jpg

Changi Airport Terminal 3
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/3136/2829117.jpg

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/3136/2829031.jpg

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/3136/2829115.jpg

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/3136/2829116.jpg

http://www.som.com/resources/projects/3/0/2/changit3m08_872.jpg

http://www.som.com/resources/projects/3/0/2/changiterm3baggage_cr5copy_876.jpg

http://www.som.com/resources/projects/3/0/2/changit3_ai4c8d1_873.jpg

http://www.som.com/resources/projects/3/0/1/changi_aerial_cr2_855.jpg

http://www.som.com/resources/projects/3/0/1/changi_esc_cr6_859.jpg

http://www.som.com/resources/projects/3/0/1/changi_bridge_cr4_857.jpg

http://www.som.com/resources/projects/3/0/1/changihr_m2_861.jpg

http://www.som.com/resources/projects/3/0/1/changi_esc_cr5_858.jpg

Education

http://www.ndp.org.sg/images/photos/full_image/uniquely_singapore/education/education_1.jpg

http://www.ndp.org.sg/images/photos/full_image/uniquely_singapore/education/education_2.jpg

http://www.ndp.org.sg/images/photos/full_image/uniquely_singapore/education/education_3.jpg

Shopping

http://www.ndp.org.sg/images/photos/full_image/uniquely_singapore/shopping/shopping_1.jpg

http://www.ndp.org.sg/images/photos/full_image/uniquely_singapore/shopping/shopping_2.jpg

http://www.ndp.org.sg/images/photos/full_image/uniquely_singapore/shopping/shopping_3.jpg

http://www.ndp.org.sg/images/photos/full_image/uniquely_singapore/shopping/shopping_4.jpg

LOL Sydney has nothing much coming up lol

public sculptures in singapore



salvador dali's homage to newton

http://www.nusantara.com/pas/webimages/dali.JPG





henry moore's reclining figure

http://www.nusantara.com/pas/webimages/moore.JPG




botero's bird
http://www.nusantara.com/pas/webimages/botero.JPG



mother and child by ng eng teng
http://www.nusantara.com/pas/webimages/mom.JPG



taichi boxing pair by ju ming
http://www.nusantara.com/pas/webimages/taichi.JPG


love by robert indiana
http://www.nusantara.com/pas/webimages/love.JPG



wealth by ng eng teng
http://www.nusantara.com/pas/webimages/wealth.JPG




contentment by ng eng teng
http://www.nusantara.com/pas/webimages/content.JPG




musical fountain
http://www.nusantara.com/pas/webimages/musicalf.JPG




continuum II by charles o perry
http://www.nusantara.com/pas/webimages/continuum.jpg



singapore brushstrokes by roy lichtenstein
http://www.nusantara.com/pas/webimages/licht.JPG



abundance III by sun yu li
http://www.nusantara.com/pas/webimages/sunyu.JPG



faces II by min chen (rises thorugh an mrt station)
http://www.nusantara.com/pas/webimages/struct01_w.jpg








About SingArt - A Brush with Lions


*



A pride of identical, life-sized lions were cast, but each one has been conceptualised and individualised by a prominent personality from the arts, entertainment, sports, business, medicine and public service. These luminaries were free to design, paint, decorate and accessorise* their lion to express their own artistic vision, their personality, to make a statement or simply amuse.


SingArt lions are on display in popular public areas in the Civic District, along the Singapore River and on Orchard Road. An exciting series of activities involving the community complements the exhibition, including the rare opportunity to adopt a lion for charity.


sri von bueron's Lotus Singhto at Raffles Hotel
http://www.singart.com.sg/images/lions/7_lion.jpg


jennie chua's (oversees raffles hotel) a legendary lion at raffles hotel - representing singapore's hotel culture
http://www.singart.com.sg/images/lions/2_lion.jpg




song + kelly 21's fuchsia the ferocious at ngee ann city
http://www.singart.com.sg/images/lions/51_lion.jpg




iskandar jalil's kueh lapis lion at raffles place
http://www.singart.com.sg/images/lions/46_lion.jpg




sun i-yu's city in the lion at caltex house
http://www.singart.com.sg/images/lions/48_lion.jpg



roberto villareal's Lalo - king of the desert at promenade along singapore river
http://www.singart.com.sg/images/lions/43_lion.jpg



koh boon pin and jacintha abisheganaden's Singapore Son at esplanade
http://www.singart.com.sg/images/lions/33_lion.jpg



deep purple's deep purple lion (like duh) at millenia walk
http://www.singart.com.sg/images/lions/30_lion.jpg



najip ali's singacool at raffles hotel
http://www.singart.com.sg/images/lions/17_lion.jpg



annika sorenstam's very corny SWINGAPOW hahaha at plaza singapura
http://www.singart.com.sg/images/lions/59_lion.jpg


there are 59 lions in all

i think the best thing from sydney to come to singapore is the space furniture (www.spacefurniture) showroom. i really reallly love it.


the singapore one by nik karalis
http://www.spacefurniture.com.au/Images/singapore3.jpg



the sydney one by john pawson and antonio citterio
http://www.spacefurniture.com.au/Images/sydney3.jpg

I think it's time for arial map challenge.

http://home.exetel.com.au/miliux/top%20of%20sydney-1.JPG

I WONDER how Singapore can beat THIS :)

this is singapore.. with the expected greenness. hrm... i can only see three airports... there are supposed to be 9?

http://www.syed-mazian.com/db4/00369/syed-mazian.com/_uimages/Singapore1024x710.jpg


this is an aerial of the city only.. click on it for a bigger 1.4mb pic.

http://www.spaceimaging.com/gallery/top_10/singapore_800.jpg (http://www.spaceimaging.com/gallery/top_10/singapore_2000.jpg)

LOL ahhh :crazy: must i make a comparison? haha I lurve BOTH Singapore and Sydney lahh! LOL y cant we just kiss n make up n i'll give u all Lumpia, ON THE HOUSE :D:D:D:crazy::lol:

keep posting the piccies tho, they're superb meh :D :cheers:

i like Singapore. very clean and everything seems to be so organized.
Sydney is also great. very tough choice.
but i voted for Singapore, my neighbor;)

The shophouse ,unique to Indochine:

These humble row buildings were the main housing for people in Singapore in the 1870s to the 1950s.The last shophouses were built in the late 1970s.The ground floor served as business area ,while the floors above could be used for residential ,office or storage uses.
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001293-8346-3102-0967/img0039a.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001293-8346-3102-0967/img0041a.jpg
http://pachome1.pacific.net.sg/~mippy/DSCN0657.jpg
http://www.sky.s64.pl/home/W/Sing/sl34.jpg
http://www.sia.org.sg/architect/ura/images/sthbridge.jpg
http://www.sia.org.sg/architect/ura/images/keongsaik.jpg
Art Deco shophouses.
http://www.sia.org.sg/architect/premises/images/premises.gif
http://202.172.40.133/t2002117/Pictures/chinatown_files/photo/photo_restructed%20shophouses.JPG
http://www.mfa.gov.sg/experience/Oct2001/images/shophouses.JPG
http://65.107.211.206/post/singapore/arts/architecture/shophouse/9.jpg
http://www.snapshotasia.com/Images/Singapore/sing_chinatown_300.jpg
http://www.mnd.gov.sg/handbook/images/optimising/optim_pix010.gif
http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/300hrdzv.jpg
http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/300cc.jpg
http://photo.starblvd.net/Raffles/2-1-3-1079784864?m=1&pg=1&ro=0&co=2
Hotel 1929 ,a converted shophouse
http://photo.starblvd.net/Raffles/2-3-5-1079670302?m=1&pg=1&ro=2&co=4
http://photo.starblvd.net/Raffles/2-4-1-1079670473?m=1&pg=1&ro=3&co=0
http://photo.starblvd.net/Raffles/2-4-2-1079670737?m=1&pg=1&ro=3&co=1
http://photo.starblvd.net/Raffles/2-4-3-1079670901?m=1&pg=1&ro=3&co=2
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980007380-8105-3181-0349/img0006.jpg
A famous shophouse at Balestier Road ,occupied by the Singapore Institute of Science.
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001293-8346-3102-0967/img0039.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001293-8346-3102-0967/img0039.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001293-8346-3102-0967/img0041.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001293-8346-3102-0967/img0044.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001293-8346-3102-0967/img0043.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980006539-8105-3181-0687/img0086.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980006539-8105-3181-0687/img0088.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980006540-8105-3181-0678/img0011.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980006539-8105-3181-0687/img0087.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980006540-8105-3181-0678/img0009.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980006540-8105-3181-0678/img0010.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001350-8324-3302-3084/img0099.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001350-8324-3302-3084/img0096.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001350-8324-3302-3084/img0103.jpg
Neil Road
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001350-8324-3302-3084/img0105.jpg
Orchard Road
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001351-8324-3302-3085/img0002.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001351-8324-3302-3085/img0006.jpg http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001351-8324-3302-3085/img0008.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001352-8324-3302-3086/img0025.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001352-8324-3302-3086/img0028.jpg
Tanjong Pagar area.
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001293-8346-3102-0967/img0014.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001293-8346-3102-0967/img0015.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001293-8346-3102-0967/img0018.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001293-8346-3102-0967/img0019.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001293-8346-3102-0967/img0021.jpg
Blair Plains
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980002918-8262-3202-1097/img0118.jpg
http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v133/RafflesCity/shc.jpg
http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v133/RafflesCity/shb.jpg
http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v133/RafflesCity/sha.jpg
http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v133/RafflesCity/shf.jpg
http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v133/RafflesCity/shg.jpg
http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v133/RafflesCity/scenea.jpg
http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v133/RafflesCity/sceneb.jpg
http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v133/RafflesCity/scenec.jpg
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/504/103shophouse.jpg
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/504/103shophouse2.jpg
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/504/103shophouse3.jpg


Some of them had been very ingeniously re-adapted into a modern house.Some had their whole back demolished ,preserving the facade.The rear was then built as a new house ,incorporating the old front wall.
http://www.landseer.com.sg/emerald/front.jpg
http://www.landseer.com.sg/emerald/01.jpg
http://www.landseer.com.sg/emerald/02.jpg
http://www.landseer.com.sg/emerald/04.jpg
http://www.landseer.com.sg/emeraldhill4/windows.jpg
http://www.landseer.com.sg/newemerald/01stairs.jpg
http://www.landseer.com.sg/newemerald/03living.jpg

For more info ,go here:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=22791&page=1

Vote for Sydney because...

...it has some of the worlds finest beaches...

Bondi Beach

http://www.virtualaustralia.com/photos/cities/sydney/093f.jpg

Manly Beach

http://www.australia.travelmall.com/images/28638.jpg

Sydney has the world's finest harbour

http://www.airviewonline.com.au/photos/0112/0391/0112-0391-18.jpg

http://www.airviewonline.com.au/photos/0309/3090/0309-3090-10.jpg

and it's other spectular waterways, some of which are very pristine

Hawkesbury River

http://www.2pi.info/sjh/interests/PC161719_cm.jpg

Georges River

http://hoore.com/helo/georges_out/georges_4_small.jpg

Middle Harbour

http://www.sydneyprivatesailing.com.au/The_Spit__Middle_Harbour_from_Clontarf.jpg

Not so many cities can boast of secluded spots just minutes away from the city centre

http://www.pacificislandtravel.com/australia/newsouthwales/wpe8C1.jpg

There aren't many cities where you can have a house with nature on your doorstep, yet be within a short drive of the city. Even native wildlife can be found in people's backyards

http://www.realestate.com.au/objects/props/6733/101346733mm1078450307.jpg

The city is lined with national parks, all of which are less than an hour away from the city centre. National parks come within just a few miles of the city centre with some even found along Sydney Harbour. One national park is The Blue Mountains National Park which is just a 90 minute drive from the Centre of Sydney

http://www.bluegumdata.com.au/pictures/images/southvalleys/00bk14.jpg

No other city can boast of such landscapes and topography. Sydney has a great climate with uniform rainfall and receives sunshine on 340 days a year. Daytime temperatures range from a mild 15 degrees in July to 26 in January, very comfortable weather indeed.

Sydney has one of the world's best skylines. On rate our skylines, it is currently in third place, just behind Hong Kong and New York

http://img8.photobucket.com/albums/v28/Fabian/c82fc0c7.jpg

http://img8.photobucket.com/albums/v28/Fabian/Sydney2a.jpg

http://img8.photobucket.com/albums/v28/Fabian/475d1a77.jpg

And Sydney knows how to put on a show

NYE Fireworks - shot by Matixvolta

http://home.exetel.com.au/miliux/cityoflight-mod2.JPG

Sydney Olympics

http://www.chinaphotocenter.com/cphoto/2000-12/2000-12p22-1.jpg

http://augustachronicle.com/images/headlines/091500/olympics.jpg

Yesterday it hosted a leg of the Athens 2004 Olympic games torch relay

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2004/06/04/torch_bridge,0.jpg

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2004/06/04/cathytorch5,0.jpg

http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2004/06/04/torch_waugh,0.jpg

It was also the main host city in 2003 Rugby World Cup, which was very successful. All the major games including the final were held here.

i like Singapore. very clean and everything seems to be so organized.
Sydney is also great. very tough choice.
but i voted for Singapore, my neighbor;)



I like Singapore too but I find the city the most sterile place I have yet visited. The place is so regulated and so clean is feels like the place has been sterilised leaving little or no diversity. Sydney might be clean also but for me it has the elements of grit that help to make for a more interesting city.

The maps tell the story, Sydney is vastly larger in surface area than Singapore and this gives rise to far more interest and difference. Singapore is to me far too structured and organised.

well, VOTE FOR SINGAPORE because

it's a great shopping destination!

here's a list of malls i made for the london vs sg thread - it's not complete, but as much as i can remember. 1-45 are along orchard road alone.

from top of orchard road
1,2,3 (probably) tanglin mall + a few others over there (orchardd hotel shopping centre and delphi orchard and probablyl more i dont know because i dont go there)
4. forum galleria
5. palais rennaisance
6. hilton hotel + 4 seasons hotel shopping arcade (linked together; ultimate 7. place for designer shopping)
8. far east centre (shit place)
liat towers podium (only has shops facing the street, but at least three levels of shopping with enough depth - hermès, zara, starbucks, esprit and i dont know what)
9. wheelock place
10. shaw plaza
diverting to scotts road
11. dfs galleria
12. pacific plaza
13. far east plaza
hyatt hotel shops (a half point for this - the boutique belle can alone be worth at least an hour of shopping)
14. scotts shopping centre
15. tangs
back to orchard road
16. wisma atria
17. lucky plaza (another shit place for maids usually and condom shops but rather big - such an eyesore and its directly opposite chanel burberry and louis vuitton store fronts ugh)
18. ngee ann city
19. paragon (expanded to include a previously separate mall, the promenade)
rolex building (just has huge rolex store - not counted but a potential destination for watch lovers)
20. mandarin hotel shopping arcade (again focussing on luxury shopping - can take up hours)
21. crown prince hotel (this should be a half - got restaurants, a huge singtel shop, polo ralph lauren and rather large sized bookstore)
22. the heeren
23. just behind mandarin hotel - cathay cineleisure
24. OG building - boring i guess except for meiji chocolate section!
25. centrepoint
26. specialist shopping centre
27. orchard emerald (small one)
peranakan place - this is the street flanked by food stalls on both sides (not counted)
28. orchard point
29. cuppage plaza
30. cuppage terrace
31. orchard plaza
32. le meridien shopping centre

continuing onto dhoby ghaut
33. plaza singapura
34. park mall
35. singapore shopping centre (shit place but with useful shops like duravit stockist and for audiophiles)
36. atrium @ dhoby ghaut

bras brasah road (still the same stretch)
37. chijmes - lotsa restaurants
38. raffles hotel shopping arcade (luxury goods and food)
39. raffles city
40. citylink mall - subterranean mall linking raffles city to suntec city, marina square, and the esplanade theatres

veering off bras brasah road a little on an adjacent road
41. funan centre (mainly computer-ish stuff - about 150 or 140 or 180 shops i can't remmeber)

+ some stuff i dont remember

back on the continuing stretch of road from bras brasah road (i'm not good with road names)
42. suntec city
43. marina square
44. millennia walk
45. esplanade shopping mall

that's as much as i know.. not quite 50, but nearly (perhaps it would if you included the ones i forgot although there aren't many)! and remember one mall is on average would be able to fit in quite a few streets of shopping.. the very smallest could fit in a brook street at least... imagine all that on one continuous stretch of road!



now as for shopping centres / malls not along orchard road.. i don't know all - i wouldnt really go to one on the other side of the island, and i can't remember too many.. but here goes..

tampines
1. tampines mall
2. century square

simei
3. eastpoint

seng kang
4. the one with a condominium above it and an lrt, mrt and bus interchange integrated
5. beside some lrt station

pasir ris
6. white sands

punggol
7. beside mrt station

10. hougang - i dont know the names but i know there are at least 3 in hougang.

kembangan
11. beside mrt station

woodlands
12. causeway point
13. behind causeway point - includes library

sembawang
14. beside mrt station

yishun
15. north point
16. one more but forgot name

bugis
17. bugis junction (within walking distance to raffles city actually)
18. simlim ssquare
19. OG

novena
20. um.. above the mrt staion
21. diagonally across mrt station

toa payoh
22. HDB HQ, integrated with bus terminal and mrt station

bishan
23. junction 8

thomson
24.thomson plaza

ang mo kio
25. jubilee something

tiong bahru
26. above mrt station

jurong
27. imm
28. another one beside jurong east mrt station
29. beside boon lay mrt station

queensway
30. queensway shopping centre
31. anchorpoint (i think)
32. ikea - includes apple corner and has a little grocery section and comprehensive mag sectioni and umm burger king and... hardware store.. and florist i think... worthy of the title of a mall i hope

holland avenue
33. holland village
34. a 5 minute drive away there's jelita cold storage

choa chu kang
35. beside mrt station
36. ten mile junction

marine parade
37. parkway parade

other places with names i dont know
38. great world city
39. i'm sure river valley area has a few shopping malls

balestier
40. condominium and mall complex - no name can't remember.. shaw something

along nicoll highway
41. concourse
42. shaw towers podium
43. keypoint (?)


office and chinatown area
44. change alley
45. chinatown point
and all the shops and restaurants along the streets in chinatown are very much worth browsing!




singapore's also a great business centre.

Singapore has long been a key regional financial centre, with more than 500 local and foreign financial institutions offering a wide range of financial products and services.

Every possible form of financial activity performed or needed by a business is available here. Funding and liquidity needs are easily met by the local equity and debt capital markets, and the Asian dollar market.

Singapore is the fourth largest foreign exchange trading centre in the world, and a growing Asia-Pacific centre for wealth management.

Many global companies have their regional treasury headquarters here to take advantage of the depth and liquidity of the financial markets here. Many of Asia's top companies have listed on the Singapore Exchange (SGX), which is Asia-Pacific's first de-mutualised and integrated securities and derivatives exchange.

The venture capital industry is well developed, with some 150 fund management companies managing nearly S$16 billion worth of venture capital funds by the middle of 2003.
from economic development board (http://www.sedb.com/edbcorp/sg/en_uk/index/why_singapore/leading_financial.html).

singapore is also the

2nd most globalised nation, after the ireland; australia not in top 10
Source: 4th annual AT Kearney and Foreign Policy magazine globalisation index, 2004


2nd most competitive economy, after the US; australia is no. 4
Source: Institute for Management Development (IMD)


best business environment in the asia-pacific; australia no. 4
Source: EIU Country Forecast, October 2003



2nd most profitable place for investors; australia not in top 4
source: beri report



2nd in personal safety in 50 top cities; sydney is the 36th
mercer human resource consulting 2003



least corrupt nation in asia
political and economic risk consultancy


best quality of life in asia, ranks 35 with score of 101; sydney ranks 4 with score of 105.5 - top 47 cities rank between 100 and 106.5.
mercer human resource consulting
quality of life can be affected by different cultures - singapore has a more asian mentality where a lot of pressure is placed on ummm alot of things. (well that's my no-brain analysis it could be totally unrelated)




2nd most network ready country; australia at no. 9
global information technology report, 2003-2004




5th most attractive offshore location;australia is 18th
a.t. kearney offshore location attractiveness index






then, vote for singapore because it's also got one of the world's best public transport systems. (i dont know why in the world sydney uses double deck trains - more passengers and smaller doors).


older trains on older line
http://images.nycsubway.org//i23000/img_23186.jpg


interior
http://images.fotopic.net/?id=4910093&outx=600&noresize=1&nostamp=1



newer train on old lines
http://images.fotopic.net/?id=4910081&outx=600&noresize=1&nostamp=1

interior
http://images.fotopic.net/?id=4910043&outx=600&noresize=1&nostamp=1



new fully automated driverless trains on new north east line
http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/sing-ne/images/2_depot.jpg

on a test track in france
http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/sing-ne/images/5_On-test.jpg

interior - highest density in the world with passenger capacity of 1920 - notice the scrolling thing and the not too entertaining tv screens
http://images.nycsubway.org//i29000/img_29365.jpg


the metro stations are also all of at least an acceptable standard, with all underground stations having glass walls between train and platform. most of them look quite good also. here are some that i like

the expo station by norman foster
http://www.penta-ocean.co.jp/english/works/works_photos/work19_1_2.jpg

http://www.penta-ocean.co.jp/english/works/works_photos/work19_2_2.jpg

http://www.fosterandpartners.com/internetsite/images/project_media/0966/0966_04.jpg




changi airport station
http://www.som.com/resources/projects/3/0/1/changi_20771sm_301.jpg

http://www.som.com/resources/projects/3/0/1/changi_20772sm_301.jpg

http://www.som.com/resources/projects/3/0/1/changi_20767sm_301.jpg



above ground stations along the eastern section of the east west line completed in 1989 - still look elegant now
http://www.som.com/resources/projects/3/1/5/smtr_e2_949.jpg

http://www.som.com/resources/projects/3/1/5/smtr_i2_954.jpg



future stations along the circle line
http://www.lta.gov.sg/projects/images/grn_ccl1_meseum1.jpg


http://www.lta.gov.sg/projects/images/grn_ccl1_nicoll.jpg

http://www.hassell.com.au/siteImageStore/Circle-Line-02.jpg


http://www.3designarchitect.com/images/gallery%20transportation/3%20lrchuan%20entrance.jpg




older LRT (1999) at bukit panang
http://images.fotopic.net/?id=4910062&outx=600&noresize=1&nostamp=1


newer LRTs at sengkang and punggol
http://images.fotopic.net/?id=4910065&outx=600&noresize=1&nostamp=1

serving a high density area
http://images.fotopic.net/?id=4910068&outx=600&noresize=1&nostamp=1

in the sengkang lrt (you can see the multicultural composition of singapore too!)
http://images.nycsubway.org//i29000/img_29376.jpg


rubber wheels on concrete track are very silent so there is minimal noise pollution to the apartments near it. also the windows of both lrt systems become opaque when passing near an apartment block.
http://images.nycsubway.org//i29000/img_29382.jpg



oh and before i forget, the harbourfront statioin looks pretty impressive too
http://www.lta.gov.sg/public_transport/images/harbour.JPG




while easily accessible secluded spots and beautiful beaches aren't exactly what make a city great, they do make them great to live in.

innovative solutions are coming up to solve this in land scarce singapore, like this below. a jogging track / park / cafe not at your doorstep, but on your roof :D
http://www.hdb.gov.sg/hdbvsf/eampu05p.nsf/0/04MYBTODUXTON_images/$file/04MYBTODUXTON_img_about2.jpg



that's not to say we dont have large expanses of nature. singapore is one of the two cities in the world that has a ummmmm untouched virgin forest or whatever you call it in the world. i have no idea where it is though cos no corner in singapore is left without as many trees squeezed in as possible.

http://www.takingitglobal.org/express/downloads/visit/singapore.jpg



some extra projects in singapore

the new 176 million national library
http://www.mfa.gov.sg/experience/Apr2002/Images/pg6_1.jpg


boulevard residences (or BLVD for short)
http://www.scglobal.com.sg/images/bl01.jpg


the fusionpolis building by kisho kurokawa
http://www.kisho.co.jp/WorksAndProjects/Works/technopolis/Pers.jpg



the new supreme courts by norman foster
http://www.fosterandpartners.com/internetsite/images/project_media/1095/1095_01.jpg






sydney is much larger, but it does not give rise to more interest and difference. most australian cities are sprawled out with flat flat flat flat flat flat flat homes. whereas singapore has the same population squeeezed into one area. denser agglomerations of people provide better business environements - more competition - more innovations - more interesting. simplistic but logical.


as for diversity, both singapore and sydney have many cultures, but where else could you find mosques and indian temples within chinatown? foodwise, i'm quite sure you can't argue sydney could beat singapore for the title of food capital.

and finally i never understnad why people like grit :/ i dont know if its the same in sydney, but here in perth you have broken fragments and chips of glass bottles everywhere. it's dangerous and reflects on the poor social responsibility of the inhabitants. and ugly.

Faaarrrrrkkkk....
Look how tiny is the floor space. Incredible. Plus, the apartment designs. Now i know what Avatar meant by sterile. These 'apartments' have no live and breathing space.

http://www.hdb.gov.sg/hdbvsf/eampu05p.nsf/0/04MYBTODUXTON_images/$file/04MYBTODUXTON_img_about2.jpg

People like grit because sterility breeds bordem and sameness.

Grit does not mean smashed bottles on the pavement... grit is more about character than cleanliness. Singapore reminds me of living in a large hospital with no aircon, and lets face it, living in a hospital would not be everyone's idea of excitement.

Singapore might have better weather but then again this is rather similar all year round... my arguement is... while i like singapore it is a boring place where the only thing that appears to be happening is business and shopping and people going about business and shopping. It might be pretty and shiny, it may also be infrastrucurally sound but it is inherently fake, like a utopian city devoid of excitement. Culturally it is not disimilar to other parts of asia and like them it is a melting pot for asian communities. Sydney on the otherhand I would say is far more varied with a more distinct mix from a larger range of backgrounds. We are Australian and being a distinctly different nation in the asian region has it advantages as well as difficulties but it most certainly provides for a greater diversity to other parts of asia anyway.

In Sydney we have so much space sure the city is spread out and sure it is no where near as dense as Singapore, but the city is densifying and the city continues to grow... we have far greater space for expansion and the city will slowly form a major urban megalopolis taking into it's belt Wollongong, Sydney, the Central Coast, the Blue Mountains and Newcastle, each one of these areas is larger than Singapore! The combined population of the Greater Sydney Basin is larger than that of Singapore and vastly more interesting due to topography, size, distance and even culture.

I don't like the fact sometimes that we do have space beacuse it encourages sprawl but the benefit of this will be seen in the future where Sydney has many CBDs with suburbs and density radiating out for each one forming a city of cities each with their own skylines, some over 50km from the major Sydney CBD. We already have areas such as Chatswood and Parramatta not to mention all the other areas developing at a frenetic rate. High-rise is not the way of big business presently a major trend to business parks and low rise campus developments is on the increase... Sydney has the space for these while Singapore really does not.

God ,heir that's tedious!

VOTE FOR SINGAPORE
Because:

Singapore is the second most internet-savvy government in the world.
Third biggest oil-refining city in the world.
Second busiest port in the world.
One of the densest-populated countries and cities in the world


The highest publicly-accessible high-level decks / restaurants in Singapore:

1.Si Chuan Dou Hua Restaurant ,60th floor ,UOB Plaza 1.
Go here: http://www.sichuandouhua.com
One of the highest restaurants in Asia ,this restaurant offers views like no other in Singapore.Also the second highest restaurant in SEA.

2.Equinox Complex ,68th - 72nd floor ,Swissotel the Stamford
http://www.rafflescityhotels.com/swissotel/images/res_equinox_main.jpg
Equinox Complex consists of: Introbar , Equinox, the Restaurant , Equinox, Private Dining , Jaan , City Space & New Asia Bar + Grill.
Go here: http://www.rafflescityhotels.com/swissotel/restaurants/res_equinox.html

3. Rooftop Observation Deck ,rooftop ,Suntec City Tower Four.
This deck just opened early last year ,featuring stunning views of Singapore ,and the Financial District skyline.

4. Top Of The M ,40th floor ,Meritus Mandarin Tower 2.
Singapore's highest rotating restaurant ,it offers views of the presitgious Orchard area.
http://hotels.meritus-hotels.com/meritus/mandarin/img/dining_entertain/topofm1.jpg

5. Observation Lounge ,39th floor ,Meritus Mandarin Tower 2.
Singapore's second highest public lounge.
http://hotels.meritus-hotels.com/meritus/mandarin/img/dining_entertain/observl1.jpg

6.Hai Tien Lo ,33rd floor ,Pan-Pacific Hotel
The hotel also the highest hotel atrium and the highest external glass lifts in SEA.

@avatar
the design of the flats are one of those hate or love ones. i actually quite like the design... anyway that's not the only apartment in singapore.

small livign spaces come hand in hand with urban density. the apartments in singapore are actually rather spacious compared to other cities like tokyo or hong kong, or even kl to a certain extent, where they have studio apartments less than 400 sqft.

These 'apartments' have no live and breathing space.

hrm.. small apartments do not mean no life and breathing space.. here are examples of what small apartments can look like.. better than most of your homes i would guess.. i dont have pics of the showroom for the duxton@pinnacle but here are some pics of other projects with similar sized apartments

a little snippet of the showroom of the lincoln modern, which have apartments about 1200 sqft
http://www.scglobal.com.sg/images/lmmorepix1.jpg


the thr3e thr3e robin with apartments from 1357sq ft
http://www.scglobal.com.sg/images/rbpix1.jpg


the strata
http://www.fareast.com.sg/images/property/strata_2.jpg



novena suites - you can see this one is really smalll
http://www.redas.com.sg/HTML/ShowCasing/Novena%20Suites/images/floorplan_r2_c7.jpg


the icon
http://www.fareast.com.sg/newsletter/40b_pic.jpg


actually i can't find anymore pics of showflats.. but you get the idea.. i dont think these are anything less than wonderful places to live in.


Singapore reminds me of living in a large hospital with no aircon

this is ironic relaly because other than being known as the garden city, singapore is also known as the air conditioned nation. if singapore were a hospital, it would really be a 5 star hospital. hospitals are associated with whiteness (lousy hospitals with off-whiteness) but the colours one associates with singapore would very likely be the lush greenness of the dense flora.

singapore is far from being the sterile place you imagine. it's got the most large scale parties in asia, as well as the biggest gay parties in asia. Fridae (www.fridae.com), a large gay portal with 72000 members regularly organises large parties in singapore. most of its members are singaporeans, of course.

you also find good restaurants everywhere. restaurants in singapore, or from singapore are featured in almost every issue of wallpaper* (the ultimate sybarite's mag). a new restaurant opens on average once a week. mathematically that works out to at least 1/4 of singpaore restaurants being wallpaper* worthy. that says something about the general level of the food & beverage scene in singapore.


so singapore = shopping, business + clubbing + eating + walking in a non stop garden



In Sydney we have so much space sure the city is spread out and sure it is no where near as dense as Singapore, but the city is densifying and the city continues to grow... we have far greater space for expansion and the city will slowly form a major urban megalopolis taking into it's belt Wollongong, Sydney, the Central Coast, the Blue Mountains and Newcastle, each one of these areas is larger than Singapore! The combined population of the Greater Sydney Basin is larger than that of Singapore and vastly more interesting due to topography, size, distance and even culture.


i really can't imagine sydney's population growing that much. world population growth is slowing and will eventually decline. how much would sydney's population have to grow to cover that area, even at low density?

this is how i see it. that huge area of sprawl will be low density (correct me if i'm wrong, but to cover such a huge area with high density residences maybe you need like 50 million or something). it will be 1 or 2 storey houses for huge vast expanses. and then you'll have the local supermarkets / shopping centres. hwo could that be interesting?



this is singapore's master plan (by zaha hadid) for the biopolis / technopolis business park.
http://www.sayisalgrafik.com.tr/sektorler/yapi/basari/zaha/m01f.jpg

http://www.architettiroma.it/architettura/hadid/singapore2.jpg


description of it
Covering about 200 hectares, one-north will be developed over the next 15 to 20 years as an integrated township comprising residential units, commercial hubs, tertiary and research institutes, sports facilities as well as green lungs. This will involve the development of a major spine of business park facilities linking the Singapore Science Park to a proposed gateway commercial hub at the Buona Vista Mass Rapid Transit (MRT) station. one-north will have clusters of high-tech and research and development activities, linked by an efficient people mover system, and which is bustling with pockets of activities.



jurong industrial park is also a success. it was started soon after singapore's independence and is the largest industrial park in asia. amazing considering a few singapore's could fit into perth. it's success was so enormous that china wanted one of its own, and got singapore to help it set up the suzhou industrial park, which is now quite a success. china plans to have a few mini singapores.

changi business park is another ummm business /industrial park. i dont know anything about it except its got businesses :P sorry.. no pics - no one really takes pics of such things.

For your info ,the Jurong Industrial Estate is privately-operated.


And there's the Int'l Business Park at Jurong.

There seems to be an abundance of Singapore pics, so I'll add a bunch of Sydney ones to fix up the ratio.

By the way, my thoughts are that they are both great cities, and Singapore is on the bleeding edge of future technologies and the city is clearly showing that. However, I would always prefer to live in Sydney than Singapore because Singapore seems to be too clean, too sterile for my liking. Sydney has much more cultural diversity, not to mention varying style of architecture and communities. I absolutely detest all those slabs of apartment blocks in Singapore that look all the same. It looks like a massive housing commission complex. I hope Sydney doesn't become like that.

Personally, I prefer the charms and character of Sydney to the ultra-sterility and contrived 'modern-ness' of Singapore. Although I do like Singapore as a city and it's certainly the only Asian city I would choose to move to If I had to.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/menka1/sydney/0423nitefromgateway-or.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/menka1/sydney/09.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/menka1/sydney/101002439ml1063365723.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/menka1/sydney/11-or.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/menka1/sydney/12am_backlit_medium.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/menka1/sydney/12am_e_medium.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/menka1/sydney/1739629bl1064516289.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/menka1/sydney/179074.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/menka1/sydney/300d2.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/menka1/sydney/5th_fire_medium.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/menka1/sydney/Darling%2520Aquarium.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/menka1/sydney/IMG_0840-1.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/menka1/sydney/IMG_7191.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/menka1/sydney/IMG_7247.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/menka1/sydney/Z1.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/menka1/sydney/hyde_park.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/menka1/sydney/streets4.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/menka1/sydney/streets5.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/menka1/sydney/streets6.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/menka1/sydney/streets7.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/menka1/sydney/memorial2.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/menka1/sydney/mypic3.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/menka1/sydney/nightlights.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/menka1/sydney/nsw_syd_quay_bg.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/menka1/sydney/ontop.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/menka1/sydney/qvb7.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/menka1/sydney/skyline01.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/menka1/sydney/soh2.jpg

http://members.optusnet.com.au/menka1/sydney/south1_medium.jpg

Singapore - the GARDEN CITY

Sentosa - a tropical resort just a stone's throw away from the financial district. Come 2007, a 6-star resort by Norman Foster will be ready.
http://www.jellesen.dk/webcrea/places/sing/24x.jpg

http://www.sky.s64.pl/home/W/Sing/sl29.jpg

http://www.jellesen.dk/webcrea/places/sing/86x.jpg

http://www.jellesen.dk/webcrea/places/sing/45x.jpg

Beautiful tree-lined streets really help destress
http://www.diff.net/media/2002_03_12_Singapore_exploring/img_3724.medium.jpg
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/2/103scotts2.jpg
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/503/103revh.jpg

Marina City Park - built on reclaimed land, it will be the green lung for the new downtown.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/2/103dscn0799.jpg
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/502/103bougainvillea.jpg
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/2/103dscn0798.jpg
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/2/103marinacentre.jpg
Look out for the coconuts!!!
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/502/103coconuts.jpg
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/2/103dscn0845.jpg
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/2/103marinapano2.jpg

Bukit Timah Nature Reserve - world's only virgin primary rainforest surrounded by city
http://megaweb.clubsnap.org/d60_bukittimah/230-3098_crw_std.jpg http://megaweb.clubsnap.org/d60_bukittimah/230-3099_crw_std.jpg

http://megaweb.clubsnap.org/d60_bukittimah/230-3100_crw_std.jpg

Safari in the City - open at night
Let's go around now
http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/night_safari/small/14th_june_05.jpg

A participant from the crowd
http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/night_safari/small/14th_june_08.jpg
http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/night_safari/small/14th_june_09.jpg

Shadow, the beautiful Cougar
http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/night_safari/small/14th_june_11.jpg

Keep a look out for the Malayan Tapir, along the tram route
http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/night_safari/small/30th_june_04.jpg

The elusive armoured Indian rhino
http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/night_safari/small/30th_june_02.jpg

A pair of shy slow loris
http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/night_safari/small/30th_june_03.jpg

A camouflaged clouded leopard
http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/night_safari/small/30th_june_01.jpg

Homo sapiens
http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/night_safari/small/14th_june_12.jpg

A serval demonstrating its impressive leaping ability
http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/night_safari/small/14th_june_10.jpg

http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/night_safari/small/14th_june_01.jpg

@avatar
the design of the flats are one of those hate or love ones. i actually quite like the design... anyway that's not the only apartment in singapore.



It wasn't me derr... I know what Singapore is like I have been there a few times... it was fabian that reffered to your precious appartments. :)

Did someone say Singapore has no architectural diversity?
Apart from the shophouses redstone posted, here are more heritage buildings.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/2/9swiss92.jpg
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/504/103col2.jpg

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/504/103col3.jpg

Sculptures by the river bank (they depict early life in Singapore)
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/504/103col6.jpg

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/504/103col7.jpg

Victoria Concert Hall clocktower
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/504/103col5.jpg

Elephant statue presented by the King of Siam to Singapore in 1871
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/504/103col4.jpg

Old Houses of Parliament
http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v133/RafflesCity/DSCN2069.jpg

http://pachome1.pacific.net.sg/~mippy/ob1.jpg

Central Fire Station
http://pachome1.pacific.net.sg/~mippy/ob2.jpg

Chinese Chambers of Commerce Building
http://pachome1.pacific.net.sg/~mippy/ob3.jpg

Stamford House
http://pachome1.pacific.net.sg/~mippy/ob4.jpg

former MPH Building
http://pachome1.pacific.net.sg/~mippy/ob5.jpg

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/504/103raf2.jpg

Singapore Philatelic Museum
http://pachome1.pacific.net.sg/~mippy/ob6.jpg

dont know what this is
http://pachome1.pacific.net.sg/~mippy/ob7.jpg

http://www.jellesen.dk/webcrea/places/sing/30x.jpg

I havent even started on the churches, Chinese & Indian temples or mosques yet

Hehe, we still havent seen the public toilets yet in Singapore, or the what the local pizza shops look like ;)

Your Singapoeans are posting more spam than I thought possible... why the hell does anyone need to see 100 pics on the interior of your trains and all the animals you have on sentosa island... everywhere has zoos this is not a competition to see whom has the best animals? Stop posting so much spam... less is more you are bogging down the servers with crap.

You don't want to see the squats... they are revolting... fist time I saw one I was in a posh establishment and almost vomitted.

They are getting a little desparate I'd say. lol

LOL its called kiasuism and if you guys wanna discuss go ahead. For me, a picture speaks a thousand words:)

, not to mention varying style of architecture and communities.

maybe you'd like to show us pictures of individual buildings that have good architecture? i certainly dont see any that are too interesting, other than the sydney opera house.

the buildings in singapore are generally glossier and more varied. look carefully at the previous posts :) and sydney definitely does not have something to match orchard road.


I absolutely detest all those slabs of apartment blocks in Singapore that look all the same. It looks like a massive housing commission complex. I hope Sydney doesn't become like that.


the equivalent of our commieblocks in sydney would be your much larger expanse (and more boring too) of single and double storey houses. from what i see in the pictures posted here, it seems only the cbd is built up. you can see the areas surrounding the cbd are immediately flat, and they continue for huge expanses of land. i'd really rather have commieblocks.

besides, the newer commieblocks (referring to government flats here) are looking better and better, and some of the multistorey carparks have garden on their roofs to aesthetically enhance the area.


some pics
http://img16.photobucket.com/albums/v47/sybarite/singapore/IMGP3965.jpg


http://img16.photobucket.com/albums/v47/sybarite/singapore/IMGP3963.jpg


http://img16.photobucket.com/albums/v47/sybarite/singapore/IMGP3967.jpg



http://img16.photobucket.com/albums/v47/sybarite/singapore/IMGP4271.jpg


by cliff
http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/85bishan_pano.jpg




by huaiwei - older uglier public housing. i readily admit hdb sometimes have terrrrriiiiibllllleeee colour schemes, but the height and texture of the urban background is much more interesting than flatness for tens of miles. and look at that nature!!!!!
http://home.pacific.net.sg/~teo10131/photos/City%203b.jpg



MORE nature
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/502/103sungeibuloh.jpg

Lets have some articles with regards to Sydney and Singapore.

US-based Cisco says it can serve region better from here

3 July 2003

By Bryan Lee , Straits Times

DOWN UNDER has proved too far down under for United States-based Cisco Systems. The computer networking giant has relocated its Asia-Pacific testing laboratory from Sydney to Singapore, to be nearer Japan and other major Asian markets.

The move meant Cisco had to fork out US$40 million (S$70.7 million) on networking equipment to set up the Asia-Pacific Network Solutions Integrated Test Engineering (NSITE) lab.

But as the vice-president of NSITE labs, Mr Ed Carney, explains, it is worth it.

He said yesterday at the lab's launch that Singapore is 'ideally located', as it is much nearer the company's important customers in Asia, including telecommunication carriers such as SingTel.

And Mr Carney has discovered at first-hand how much distance matters.

Sydney's distance from the rest of the region became apparent to him on a business trip to Australia. He found to his surprise that 'dropping by' on a client in Tokyo meant taking a 12-hour flight from the Sydney lab, which Cisco set up four years ago.

A direct flight from Singapore to Tokyo takes just seven hours. Indeed, barely two years ago Prime Minister Goh Chok Tong said in a National Day speech that the Republic had to become a hub for the greater Asian region bound by a seven-hour flight radius.

Mr Carney flew to Singapore from the US for the launch yesterday.

Stressing how important it was for the lab to be near the company's Asian customers, he said these clients last year accounted for US$3.78 billion, or a fifth of Cisco's total revenue of US$18.9 billion.

Distance matters because one of the lab's aims is to address specific client needs, which differ from country to country. Cisco needs to use 'the skill-sets of people in the region as they can better represent the requirements' of the region, Mr Carney said.

He also cited the Republic's 'highly-educated' population and 'good and supportive' government policies as reasons to site the lab here.

The Singapore lab is the only one in Asia and joins two in the US and three in Europe.

And every three months, Cisco intends to pump in another US$2 million to US$5 million to keep the Singapore lab up to date.

It occupies 10,000 sq ft in Cisco's office in Capital Tower in Robinson Road, and is staffed by 10 engineers. Cisco employs 350 staff engaged in regional headquarter functions and coordinating manufacturing operations.

The test lab will also provide training opportunities for IT professionals.

Guest of honour, Economic Development Board managing director Ko Kheng Hwa, said that he expects total business spending by the infocomms and media services sector this year to hold steady at last year's $870 million. This is 'good news' in the light of the Iraq war, the Sars outbreak, and the global downturn in the industry.

'The better news is that more good jobs will be created in this cluster. Nearly 3,200 professional and skilled jobs are expected to be created when these investment projects are fully implemented,' he said, adding that this would be a third higher than last year.

http://it.asia1.com.sg/newsdaily/news001_20030703.html

Symantec moves some corporate functions to Singapore

30 Jan 2004

By Bryan Lee

SYMANTEC, the world's largest maker of computer anti-virus software, is moving some corporate functions to Singapore from Sydney and has based its Asia-Pacific vice-president here.

The US-based company, which makes Norton computer security software, yesterday said it was moving functions, such as human resource and finance management, to Singapore from Australia so as to be closer to the faster-growing markets of the region.

President and chief operating officer John Schwarz said that within the Asia-Pacific region excluding Japan, markets such as China and Singapore were the main drivers of growth.

Hence the company decided nine months ago to base its top regional executive, Mr Vince Steckler, here instead of Sydney where his predecessor was based.

Singapore was chosen for its stability, multi-lingual workforce and central location in a region which stretches from India to South Korea to New Zealand.

Mr Schwarz added that an added benefit was that Singapore was home to the regional headquarters of many multinational corporations. The company derives about half its global revenues from enterprises and the other half from consumers.

The Asia-Pacific region, excluding Japan, contributes about 5 per cent of Symantec's total revenues. For the quarter ended Jan 2, sales in this region grew 24 per cent.

Mr Schwarz expects the region to grow faster than other world markets as countries such as China and Malaysia crack down on software piracy, he told Bloomberg News.

'We are seeing serious efforts on the part of large Asian countries to curb piracy and make the environment for commercial software a viable proposition,' Mr Schwarz said in an interview in Singapore.

As consumers in countries such as China become wealthier and buy more personal computers, they will also need security products, he added. 'Asia's going to become an increasingly important part of our overall business, perhaps overtaking Europe in a few years.'

Sydney has very varied architecture, maybe it is you that hasn't looked at the Sydney pics.
From ultra modern, to wooden buildings, to classical Victorian architecture, Art Deco, etc.


the equivalent of our commieblocks in sydney would be your much larger expanse (and more boring too) of single and double storey houses. from what i see in the pictures posted here, it seems only the cbd is built up. you can see the areas surrounding the cbd are immediately flat, and they continue for huge expanses of land. i'd really rather have commieblocks.

Sydney is certainly not a flat city, It's very hilly. Yes, the suburbs do go on and on but there are also mini cbds all around Sydney that many locals go to for their entertainment, shopping and sporting/lifestyle needs.

I do not like 'commieblock' style living, I'd much prefer a nice big house with a yard to live in with shopping and schools nearby and public transport around the corner. If you prefer living in a tiny dense apartment block with thousands of others very close by, power to you. But remember that there is a reason why Australian cities in particular Sydney and Melbourne constantly get labelled the most liveable cities in the world.

many public toilets are disgusting. you must remember that singapore went from third world to first in one generation. many disgusting social habits from a third world society remain from the past generation, and some are even seeping into the younger generation. to counteract this problem, the government rates the toilets, and will publish a guide booklet on public toilets. this would help us very much i can imagine :) i dont use public toilets myself. but from what i heard, the situation has improved alot in the past few years. upgraded wet markets and hawker centres that used to have absolutely disgusting toilets now have auto flush and auto faucets :) that's a nice improvement. but i'm not going in anytime soon :runaway:

the best public toilet i've been to in singapore would be the one at paragon.. it's got doors that open when you press a button (for hygiene purposes) and all the other standard automatic stuff. the fullerton hotel toilet is goood too, if only because they've got philippe starck faucets.



the pics of the trains were um just to show as much as possible. there is a tendency to do everything as completely as possible i guess. we're trying to show everyside of singapore. anyway you sydney people never respond after we refute your points and just go on to look for new cracks to dig.

ultra modern, to wooden buildings, to classical Victorian architecture, Art Deco,

we've got all that too :) we've probably got some that you dont have as well. the latest style of architecture would be the ultra slim residential towers that have random organised sunshades which create an interesting texture. the eesplanade is fat, but its got the sunshades too.

just one example, for a change :)

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/500/103DSCN2242.jpg


ok one more example, this time wooden
http://thestar.com.my/archives/2004/5/17/features/p2house1.jpg

keep posting the piccies tho, they're superb meh :D :cheers:

Thank you, at least you appreciate it! :D

I would also love to try your lumpia! :eat:

we've got all that too :) we've probably got some that you dont have as well. the latest style of architecture would be the ultra slim residential towers that have random organised sunshades which create an interesting texture. the eesplanade is fat, but its got the sunshades too.

just one example, for a change :)

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/500/103DSCN2242.jpg


ok one more example, this time wooden
http://thestar.com.my/archives/2004/5/17/features/p2house1.jpg

Yes, but that's just one single house. Am I wrong to believe that most Singaporeans live in concrete 10 storey apartment blocks? In Sydney, in just a single suburban street, you can find houses of 1, 2 or 3 stories, wooden, brick, victorian style, modern, federation, californian etc.

With the sunshade building you were talking about, there is one in DA stage at the moment that may be similiar to what you mean. Here are some renders-

http://img52.photobucket.com/albums/v158/culwulla/720georgestele.jpg

http://img52.photobucket.com/albums/v158/culwulla/720georgefacade.jpg

http://img52.photobucket.com/albums/v158/culwulla/720georgesttop.jpg

It's also got a windmill feature on top of it for energy conservation.

In the Ozscrapers forum I noticed Winston posted some awesome pano's of Darling Harbour that I'd like to share.

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/3138/smalldarling.jpg

http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/5903/DarlingHarbor3.jpg

skyline from Sydney Airport-
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/3012/DSC00400Large.JPG

Lets see what is in store for the future.

The urban masterplan for Singapore's new downtown, which is now underway.

Source: The Urban Redevelopment Authority (http://www.ura.gov.sg/cudd/cawebsite/main-intro.htm), Singapore

Date of release: 26th June 2003

Downtown @ Marina Bay
-- the heart of the city with a soul for life!

http://www.ura.gov.sg/ppd/mp2003/images/c-work-marina-01.jpghttp://www.ura.gov.sg/ppd/mp2003/images/c-work-marina-02.jpg
http://www.ura.gov.sg/ppd/mp2003/images/c-work-marina-03.jpghttp://www.ura.gov.sg/ppd/mp2003/images/c-work-marina-04.jpg
http://www.ura.gov.sg/ppd/mp2003/images/c-work-marina-05.jpghttp://www.ura.gov.sg/ppd/mp2003/images/c-work-marina-06.jpg
http://www.ura.gov.sg/ppd/mp2003/images/c-work-marina-07.jpghttp://www.ura.gov.sg/ppd/mp2003/images/c-work-marina-08.jpg

At Downtown @ Marina Bay, Singaporeans can:


Work in a premier business and financial hub with global connections to other major business and financial institutions
Re-energise in a vibrant area of unique character and identity. Live, work, play and learn at the same time.
Enjoy enriching cultural activities in open spaces.
Experience round-the-clock life and vitality.


http://www.ura.gov.sg/ppd/mp2003/images/c-work-marina-09.jpghttp://www.ura.gov.sg/ppd/mp2003/images/c-work-marina-10.jpg
http://www.ura.gov.sg/ppd/mp2003/images/c-work-marina-11.jpghttp://www.ura.gov.sg/ppd/mp2003/images/c-work-marina-12.jpg

Downtown @ Marina Bay extends Singapore's core Central Business District (CBD) seamlessly around the Bay from the existing Raffles Place, Shenton Way and Marina Centre.

The current review aims at ensuring that the Downtown @ Marina Bay response to current business needs and development trends to allow Singapore to continue to compete at a global level and give in-built flexibility for the future. It marks the next step in the continuing evolution of the plan as it moves from concept to implementation.

Downtown @ Marina Bay is set to be a distinctive and global location for business and for living, working and leisure, around-the-clock.

http://www.ura.gov.sg/cudd/cawebsite/images/downtown-bigplan.jpg

1. A Mulit-Purpose Destination

http://www.ura.gov.sg/cudd/cawebsite/images/01multipurposedestination.jpg

2. Distinctive Districts

http://www.ura.gov.sg/cudd/cawebsite/images/02adistinctivedistricts.jpg
http://www.ura.gov.sg/cudd/cawebsite/images/02bsignatureskyline.jpg
http://www.ura.gov.sg/cudd/cawebsite/images/02cconnectingdistricts.jpg

3. State-of-the-Art Infrastructure

http://www.ura.gov.sg/cudd/cawebsite/images/03state-of-art-infrastructure.jpg

4. Flexible Framework

http://www.ura.gov.sg/cudd/cawebsite/images/04flexible-framework.jpg

5. A Vibrant Cultural Loop

http://www.ura.gov.sg/cudd/cawebsite/images/05cultural-loop.jpg

6. People-Frendliness

http://www.ura.gov.sg/cudd/cawebsite/images/06pedestrian-friendliness.jpg
http://www.ura.gov.sg/cudd/cawebsite/images/06pedestrian-enlarge01.jpg
http://www.ura.gov.sg/cudd/cawebsite/images/06pedestrian-enlarge02.jpg
http://www.ura.gov.sg/cudd/cawebsite/images/06pedestrian-enlarge03.jpg

Putting it Together

http://www.ura.gov.sg/cudd/cawebsite/images/development-phasing.jpg
http://www.ura.gov.sg/cudd/cawebsite/images/developing-the-business-and.jpg
http://www.ura.gov.sg/cudd/cawebsite/images/dt-bfh-enlarge01.jpg
http://www.ura.gov.sg/cudd/cawebsite/images/dt-bfh-enlarge02.jpg

Another strategic advantage for Singapore. Its a coastal city, and we're going to take full advantage of that.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/500/103bf4.jpg

Central Promontory

As part of the BFC site, the adjacent Central Promontory site can be developed for a public attraction together with convention facilities and complementary uses such as retail, food & beverage and other recreational facilities right on the waterfront.

The site will be conveniently and seamlessly connected to the BFC and
nearby RTS stations via a network of underground pedestrian malls.
The Central Promontory site has a commanding location fronting onto
Marina Bay and is envisioned as an iconic signature development that will
be a destination attraction along thewaterfront.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/500/103bf.jpg

Engaging the waterfront

There are also additional development opportunities to give the BFC greater connectivity and presence along the waterfront. Structures such as a sky-deck over Marina Boulevard can be introduced to connect the BFC
development to the waterfront promenade at Marina Bay.

A pavilion with restaurants and shops can also be located within the Bay to allow uses and activities to take place out over the water.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/500/103bf2.jpg

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/500/103bf3.jpg

$10 billion plan to make Sentosa a 'must visit' place

Part of the plan is a $25m nightly water-based show on the stretch of sea between the island and HarbourFront

22 May 2004

http://business-times.asia1.com.sg/mnt/media/image/launched/2004-05-22/040522djsentosa.gif

(SINGAPORE) Sentosa aims to throw off the 'white elephant' tag once and for all through a massive $10 billion redevelopment plan that will make the island and its surrounds 'irresistible' to tourists and locals.

'We're looking at creating an integrated destination within Singapore that would have high recognition, high visibility and would be extremely difficult - if not impossible - for any tourist not to visit during their stay here,' says Darrell Metzger, chief executive of Sentosa Leisure Group.

'We also want it to become a regular destination for residents.'

Of the $10 billion the plan calls for, $2 billion will come from Temasek-linked Mapletree Investments, which is developing HarbourFront - a 24-hectare site in Maritime Square opposite Sentosa, slated for a mega shopping and entertainment complex.

Another $6 billion will be spent on Sentosa island itself, and the remaining $1 billion to $2 billion will be used to develop the Southern Islands.

'It's a combination of private and Sentosa Leisure Group's money, and the ratio of that is about 75 per cent private investment and 25 per cent our investment, primarily in infrastructure, which is our obligation,' says Mr Metzger.

As part of its grand plan, Sentosa is collaborating with HarbourFront to build a $25 million nightly water-based show on the stretch of sea between the island and HarbourFront.

Mr Metzger believes this will be popular enough to draw 10,000 to 15,000 people to the area every night.

'The water show will include light, sound, lasers, fire - for $25 million, we'd better get it all,' he says. 'It will be done nightly, maybe twice a night - and it will be free.

'If we put in a new show, I'm sure it will be a nightly destination and become a very active area. We need to bring life to this place at night.'

The show will be ready about the time HarbourFront opens in 2006 - and it will be part of the plan to turn the Sentosa area into an integrated destination.

In recent years, Sentosa has undergone a remarkable transformation.

No longer seen as just a tourist spot, the island is now visited by many younger Singaporeans and hosts some of Singapore's hippest parties.

The number of visitors used to be equally split between foreigners and residents, though last year saw more locals than tourists because of Sars.

Mr Metzger hopes that locals will eventually comprise about 60 per cent of Sentosa's visitors.

Overall, the number of visitors rose almost 10 per cent from 3.8 million in 2001-02 to 4.2 million last financial year.

The aim is to boost this to about 8 million visitors in eight years' time. 'Ultimately, we'll get to the point where the attendance at the island is not important,' Mr Metzger says. 'To us, attendance is a gauge of how we're doing on the marketing side - but the real gauge obviously is revenue.'

Revenue has surged from $52.6 million in 2001-02 to an estimated $220 million last financial year. The big jump was mostly due to land sales for various developments. By 2012, revenue is expected to hit $900 million a year. To cater to the expected increase in visitors, there are plans for 4-6 hotels and resorts to open on the island by 2012, including a six-star, $150 million resort.

That resort - The Knolls - is a joint venture between the Pontiac Land Group and Thai developer City Realty. Designed by legendary hotelier Robert Burns and award-winning architect Norman Foster, it will be ready in 2007 or 2008.

Mr Foster said this week the project offers a 'unique opportunity to design a resort that is seamlessly integrated with the beauty of its natural setting and three remarkable historic buildings.

'Our design will fuse the contemporary with the historic, and create a luxurious destination resort in the midst of the rainforest,' he said.

Sentosa Leisure Group's Mr Metzger says: 'We currently have 800 rooms and the new hotels will add about 600 rooms. Eventually, the island will have some 2,000 hotel rooms.'

But the new rooms will only be built if there is demand, he says. In November 2002, Sentosa cut its admission from $6 to $2 - a key factor in its rise in visitors. And admission may be free - some day.

'We'll continue to evaluate the admission fee, if it's necessary, or if it can be lowered more,' says Mr Metzger. 'I have a hard time coming up with any resort in the world that charges admission. Now that, to me, says it all.'

However, it's not just visitor dollars that Sentosa is eyeing. The residential development Sentosa Cove is expected to draw an estimated $3 billion of investment through the sale of 2,600 homes, including bungalows, terrace houses and condominiums.

Also to be built is a $20 million marina that will accommodate up to 240 boats, including 10 mega-yachts.

However, the most talked-about - and controversial - idea is a possible casino resort on the Southern Islands.

Las Vegas Sands president and chief operating officer William Weidner was quoted in previous media reports as saying his company is ready to pump in as much as US$2 billion to operate a casino on Sentosa. Las Vegas Sands is behind the Venetian Casino Resort in Las Vegas and Sands Macao in Macau.

'If the Southern Islands become a larger resort destination, and maybe includes a casino, then investment in it would probably go up,' says Mr Metzger. 'The original plan was for a $1 billion development, but realistically, it would have to be a $2 billion investment to be a major destination. However, we don't know what direction it's taking and we won't know till year-end when studies are finished.'

Mapletree plans 150-room hotel at HarbourFront

29 May 2004

It also plans to turn former St James Power Station into a trendy lifestyle centre

By KALPANA RASHIWALA

(SINGAPORE) A new 150-room hotel could soon come up in the former Maritime Square area if Mapletree Investments' plans come to fruition.

The developer of the 24-hectare HarbourFront precinct hopes to convert the Singapore Port Institute (SPI) Building into a tourist-class hotel with about 150 rooms. Vacant land next door can add an adjacent block with the same number of hotel rooms, Mapletree CEO Hiew Yoon Khong told BT recently.

Mapletree, a subsidiary of Singapore investment company Temasek Holdings, also plans to turn the former St James Power Station, a 77-year old signature brick building, into a trendy lifestyle centre.

It will then have clubs, restaurants and possibly a theatre that can seat about 700 - all within the building's 76,000 sq ft gross floor area. 'Our plans for St James Power Station, SPI Building and our HarbourFront Mall will inject a much-needed lifestyle offering currently lacking in the area,' said Mr Hiew.

The mall alone will provide 1.1 million sq ft of space for shopping, entertainment and recreation when it is completed around August 2006.

The location already has offices - at HarbourFront Office Park completed in stages between 2002 and last year - and HarbourFront Centre (the former World Trade Centre). Soon, there will be homes next door when Keppel Group completes the first phase of its Caribbean condo.

Besides the resident population in the area, Mapletree is eyeing tourists visiting Sentosa or disembarking at the Singapore Cruise Centre to generate business for its new mall, hotel and the revamped St James Power Station.

For both the St James Power Station and SPI Building, Mapletree will begin work only after it has secured operators and tenants, said Mr Hiew, who joined Mapletree last August.

Mapletree will convert SPI Building into a hotel and build an extension block next door if necessary. It will either sell or lease the asset to a hotel operator.

'We have held discussions with local and international management companies. We have no hang-ups - we're even open to talking to individual businessmen who might want to own or run tourist hotels. If they want only one block (the SPI Building), no problem. But we have land next door that is suitable for an additional block, either immediately or for future expansion,' said Mr Hiew, who was formerly CEO of CapitaLand Commercial and CapitaLand Financial.

The proposed hotel is unlikely to compete head on with the hotels on Sentosa, which are mostly high-end, he said. 'In fact, HarbourFront's hotel can even be scaled down to budget category. But that decision will have to be made by the operator.'

St James Power Station is unlikely to be sold as it has been slated for preservation by the Preservation of Monuments Board. In recent years, it has often been a venue for fashion shows and product launches.

'We are going to run a regional ad campaign to attract people with interesting concepts. We don't have any fixed ideas about what kind of operator or tenants we want,' said Mr Hiew.

Mapletree is prepared to align its financial interest with that of the tenants by pegging a substantial portion of rental to the performance of the tenants, says Mr Hiew. 'Such an approach is required, especially when you are dealing with newish concepts.'

Before
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980005123-8073-3222-4727/img0097.jpg

Planned rejuvenation
http://www.mapletree.com.sg/uploads/StJamesExtPers3.JPG

Future maritime hub

We already have one now, but its going to be better. Catch a cruise on the tropical South China Seas :)

http://www.ura.gov.sg/cudd/cawebsite/images/publicspace-maritime01.jpg
http://www.ura.gov.sg/cudd/cawebsite/images/publicspace-maritime02.jpg
http://www.ura.gov.sg/cudd/cawebsite/images/publicspace-maritime04.jpg

Guys this is a battle of the present... not a battle of the future?

Yes and added to our suburban houses are quite often private gardens, pools and in some areas many have tennis courts, pools and massive landscaped gardens. If you want to live in inner city high-rise the option is there, the option is there there for many suburbs too like North Sydney, Manly, Chatswood, St Leonards, Cronulla, Brighton Le Sans, Hurtsville, Parramatta etc etc. The real benefit in Sydney unlike Singapore is choice... we have the choice to live in high density urban villages dotted throughout the inner city and suburbs, BUT we also have the choice to live in suburbia and even on farms! All within the metropolitan area. I don't imagine many people in Singapore can have the luxury of keeping horses or have the luxury of their own private swimming pools, tennis courts and 10 car garages, some with views of the city and harbour. Five level houses around the harbour are not uncommon. Even Hong Kong is far more varied with living than Singapore where it seems more a case of vertical urban villages of mediocrity.

The abode in St Leonards has sunshades for those of you talking about buildings with sunshades.

Some of Sydney's many suburban skylines... Care of Fabian...

One of the unique features about the Sydney metropolitian area is that it is not one city that makes up Sydney, but a network of a dozen or so cities, which include Parramatta, Chatswood, Liverpool, Bankstown & Penrith to name a few. Sydney's CBD's acts as the primary centre for activity

In recent times, there has been a focus on increasing the scale of development within these cities under the planning policies of decentralisation and urban consolidation along with encouraging job growth to encourage people to live and work within their area without the need for travel.

One of the results of this has been the formation of skylines within these cities, which when viewed from a distance appear quite good.

Here are some of Sydney's suburban skylines I have images of . If anyone has images of other suburban skylines, please add them in and include a little description where possible

North Sydney

This is Australia's fifth largest CBD (bigger than Adelaides). It is home to IT Firms, Insurance firms & telecommunications firms. This is amazing seeing that fifty years ago this was just another Sydney suburb

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid102/p622779be5e08399412fcbe405094f21b/f9c91376.jpg

Parramatta

Acts as a regional Centre for Sydney's Greater west, located 25km west of the CBD. Many firms are public sector firms within the State & Federal Governments. It even has it's own legal precient including the presence of the Family Court of Australia. In recent years, Parramatta has embraced highrise residential development led by Meriton.

The skyline is set for a drastic alteration over the next few years as three 120m towers and the 80m tower of the Civic Place development are built, which is set to dwarf the current tallest, 83m Commonwealth Centre along with another dozen scrapers, either under construction or awaiting approval.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid102/p85d419ddb3a4e61703997691229ab2cb/f9c91a95.jpg

Chatswood

Located about 10km north of the CBD on the north shore line and is home to a number of IT firms. It also has a massive retail sector and the apartment boom has led to a significant alteration of the skyline in recent years

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid102/p3295c9a0dd9b23468f5cf4eabef12ad6/f9c91f07.jpg

St Leonards

Located 7km North of the CBD on the North Shore rail line. St Leonards is also home to IT, Banking and Insurance firms. IBM has it's Sydney headquarters here. In recent years there has been a swing towards residential development such as The Forum development and Meritons Verona.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid102/p53858d1015068fd20a0639253734946a/f9c91ec5.jpg

Bondi Junction

Located at the end of Oxford St about 7km east of the CBD and is at the end of the Eastern Suburbs/Illawarra Railway line. This is considered to be the main regional centre for the Eastern Suburbs. There has been a strong emphasis on residential development in recent years.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid102/padb62cb77e42a84585458272ff15936b/f9c9143f.jpg

Hurstville

Is the main regional centre for southern Sydney located 20km south of the city on the Illawarra railway line. It attracts a large number of workers who reside in Wollongong and the Illawarra each day. A masterplan is being drawn up which could see thirty storey towers appear on the skyline and increased commercial and residential development. It's a promient skyline due to it's elevated position on a ridge and is visible from many parts of the city like it's larger counterparts. It's one of Sydney's longest suburban skylines which 2km long from east to west

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid102/p29a65875549a9a30ffcefd983e6adbea/f9c914db.jpg

Closeup of central core

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid102/p574baeba4a5f6e74d8a4e8180ac14898/f9c92250.jpg

Cronulla

A major beachside suburb which saw a boom in highrise during the 1970's and 80's but height restrictions will limit the addition of scrapers in the future. It's the only beachside suburb in Sydney to have a skyline with the possible exception of Manly.

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid102/p6334418d8a1d54468f5023127f80fac1/f9c913f1.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid95/p0001a6bb203bedc464feaa8efaeb03f1/fa23d260.jpg

North Ryde

Located 15km north west of the city on the upper reaches of the Lane Cove River and Epping Rd, this has become Sydney's Silcon Valley home to many major IT and computing firms. Macquarie Centre and Macquarie University are also located in the area. In 2008, the area will be connected to the Cityrail network when the Epping to Chatswood stage of the Parramatta to Chatswood railway line opens with two stations being built in the area, at Macquarie University and another to be known as Macquarie Park

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid102/p30c82e78faa6ac1325a9bf7d8f485d1f/f9c910c0.jpg

Finally a number of skylines are starting to take shape across Sydney in traditional lowrise, low density centres such as Liverpool, Fairfield, and Blacktown, which is set to transform these areas forever, as pressure is placed both by planners and the state government to build up and better utilse infrastructure, and most importantly, bring people and business to this sprawling metropolis

Great pics Avatar, but we got to look at all aspects of a city. Like where its headed for the future. Even talk of the past - Singapore suffered aerial bombardment by the Japs in WW2 and had to rebuild after that..stuff like that :)

LOL well you can have this then... Sydney's future?

this picture blows any city out of the water... :colgate:
http://home.iprimus.com.au/allicit/Sydney.06.jpg

LOL..whats the source of that pic? I assume Sydney's height limit has been lifted huh;)

The plans I showed were released by the urban planning authority of Singapore and take into account existing factors. I can even show construction pics if necessary.

Hehe, yes i know about all the new CBD development in Singapore and the strategies in place, and while I don't aggree with what they are doing and the choice to build on that area of reclaimed land... it will of course add to Singapore's presence.

What height limit? I shredded the height limit docos, sun access plans and reflectivity requirements.

The pic above was souced from the very official council of Adobe Photoshop.

Both got a gorgeous waterfront, both got a gorgeous operahouse, both got a magical skyline, but what stunned me the most is how Singapore has blended the new dense downtown skyline with the little old fishing village town beside very well.......SINGAPORE

Chad... have you heard of the Rocks? I guess not?

@ mephisto

i think only about 5% of singaporeans live in landed property. however, this 5% of the population takes up about 50% of the residential space in singapore... so you do see houses quite often and there are quite many that are unique like this as people seek better more sophisticated designs as they become more design conscious.


if you go into the areas with lots of bungalows, you can see some variation in housing styles as well. i dont know the names of the styles, but my music theory teacher had this very um ... farmy looking terrace house... and on the way out to the busstop there was a brick house.. and plenty of modern designs in between. as well as shit boring ones of course.


as for that orange and glass building... no that wasn't really what i was talking about... but there are similarities. the sunshades here are physically sticking out - they create a true texture with shadows here and there and stuff like that. if you remember the monolithic hdb apartment with the very small apartmentsi posted earlier on, each apartment in the building had a random mix of bays, balconies, and planters that created a very random and interesting pattern. that's what i was talking about.. and even earlier on you can see the moulmein rise, which has a similar style. the balconies of the building you posted aren't really that eye catching as they flow back into the building.




Even Hong Kong is far more varied with living than Singapore where it seems more a case of vertical urban villages of mediocrity.


why is it more varied? i wouldnt agree that the vertical urban villages are too mediocre in singapore... they might be according to a certain standard, but they are definitely superior to hong kong on average. while this is irrelevant, i would like to point out that many hk residentials are poorly maintained and are on average much much smaller than the ones in singapore. have you seen those shabby alleys in hong kong? um... i hope you have some images of the noisy shabby alleys in between rundown apartments in your mind...

in fact public housing in singapore is one of the best in the world. it's won some UN habitat award or something.

I want to know actual facts here people. The same happened on the LDN Vs Singapore thread (wasn't until I showed the 200,000 home and 150,000+ jobs created in 10 years Thames Gateway project that they kinda cooled off (lol stupid comments like a city within a city :lol: ).


But what I want to know is actual facts not pictures and the like cause Sydney is undoubtedy one of the most beautifully set cities on the face of the planet (more than Vancouver in my opnion :yes: ) and a far more beautiful and varied city than Singapore without a question of a doubt!

So I want actual info here - like financial relevance, amount of money traded on the global stage, number of financial institutions, GDP of their economies, GDP per capita's, a comparison of transport networks: train capacities, frequencies, ridership, safety, amount of stations, variety of transport networks, etc, amount of theatres, museums, etc - something that seemed to be totally neglected on the previous thread :|

Diversity?You all want to see diversity?
I'll give them to you:

http://www.streetdirectory.com.sg/buildings/238466_right.jpg
House Of Tan Yeok Nee ,a restored Chinese mansion built in 1885.

http://www.streetdirectory.com.sg/buildings/059810_main.jpg
The Majestic ,a cinema now converted into a shopping mall ,the interior was preserved.

http://www.streetdirectory.com.sg/buildings/238838_main.jpg
MacDonald House ,the oldest skyscraper here.But not the fiirst.

http://www.streetdirectory.com.sg/buildings/179369_left.jpg
http://www.streetdirectory.com.sg/buildings/179369_front.jpg
http://www.streetdirectory.com.sg/buildings/179369_main.jpg
http://www.streetdirectory.com.sg/buildings/179369_right.jpg
http://www.mita.gov.sg/images/mita.jpg
http://www.sissiundkarli.com/images/Mita%20Building%207_JPG.jpg
Mita Building ,formerly the Hill Street Police Station.

http://www.streetdirectory.com.sg/buildings/069115_main.jpg
http://www.streetdirectory.com.sg/buildings/069115_overview.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980005860-8120-3181-2493/img0021.jpg
White House ,formerly Maxwell Road Post Office

http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/300osc.jpg
Old Parliament House ,Singapore's oldest government building ,built in 1827.

http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980007381-8105-3181-0499/img0001.jpg
http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/300stff2dfr.jpg
http://www.streetdirectory.com.sg/buildings/178885_main.jpg
http://www.streetdirectory.com.sg/buildings/178885_entrance.jpg[img]
Stamford House ,a high-class upmarket luxurious goods shopping mall.

[img]http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/300mph2.jpg
AIT Academy & UniCampus

http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980005880-8120-3181-2123/img0086.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001390-8324-3302-3091/img0013.jpg
http://www.postcolonialweb.org/singapore/arts/architecture/market/6.jpg
Lau Pa Sat ,a market built in 1894 ,now serving up local cuisine.

http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/300tocr.jpg
Ogilvy Centre

http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/300victoria_theatre___memorial_halla.jpg
Victoria Theatre & Concert Hall

http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/85supreme.jpg
Supreme Court

http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980005136-8073-3222-0224/img0088.jpg
City Hall


Juxtaposed with the old ,are the funky ,colourful modern buildings:
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001250-8346-3102-2174/img0036.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001258-8346-3102-2117/img0011.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001259-8346-3102-0552/img0020.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001258-8346-3102-2117/img0009.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980000768-7736-3282-3480/img0007.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001258-8346-3102-2117/img0058.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980000768-7736-3282-3480/img0015.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001248-8346-3102-2168/img0088.jpg
Apartments.

http://archnet.org/library/imgdownloader/jpg/37547/big/IAA8638.JPG
KK Hospital

GALLERY HOTEL!!!
http://www.postcolonialweb.org/singapore/arts/architecture/evason/6.jpg
http://www.postcolonialweb.org/singapore/arts/architecture/evason/30.jpg
http://www.postcolonialweb.org/singapore/arts/architecture/evason/15.jpg
http://www.postcolonialweb.org/singapore/arts/architecture/evason/27.jpg

post the churches!

Only a small percentage pf us live in landed property ,due to land scarcity ,but almost 90% + of us live in high-rise buildings and we have the highest home ownership rate in the world.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/504/103fire_station.jpg
Central Fire Station

You asked for it!;):D
Churches:
http://www.ura.gov.sg/conservation/images/cmc.jpg http://www.tacmc.org.sg/images/heritage_b_church.jpg
http://www.tacmc.org.sg/images/heritage_b_colonnade.jpg http://www.tacmc.org.sg/images/heritage_b_newchurch.jpg http://www.rosyth.moe.edu.sg/social/lessons/webquestchina/resources_files/chinesemethodistchurch2002_01b.JPG http://www.rosyth.moe.edu.sg/social/lessons/webquestchina/resources_files/chinesemethodistchurch2002_03b.JPG http://www.rosyth.moe.edu.sg/social/lessons/webquestchina/resources_files/chinesemethodistchurch2002_04b. http://www.rosyth.moe.edu.sg/social/lessons/webquestchina/resources_files/chinesemethodistchurch2002_02b.JPG
Telok Ayer Chinese Methodist Church ,an eclectic blend of Chinese and Western styles.

http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980007385-8105-3181-0495/img0040.jpg
The Armenian Church ,the oldest here ,built 1835.

http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980002913-8262-3202-1074/img0052.jpg
St. George's Church

http://www.catholic.org.sg/images/churches/cathedral.jpg
http://www.scholars.nus.edu.sg/landow/post/singapore/images/buildings/church1.gif
http://www.scholars.nus.edu.sg/landow/post/singapore/images/buildings/church2.gif
http://itclub.vs.moe.edu.sg/cyberfair2003/images/landmarks-cathedralgood-1.jpg
http://itclub.vs.moe.edu.sg/cyberfair2003/images/landmarks-cathedralgood-3.jpg
Cathedral of the Good Shepherd

http://skyscraperpage.com/gallery/data/500/300sdacc.jpg
Balestier Road Seventh-Day Adventist Church

http://www.tropicalisland.de/SIN%20Singapore%20Small%20Church%20b.jpg
Saint Joseph's Church

http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980005861-8120-3181-2494/img0035.jpg
The Church Of the Sacred Heart

http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980002915-8262-3202-1100/img0068.jpg
Church Of Our Lady Of Lourdes

http://www.catholic.org.sg/images/churches/fullsize/teresa.jpg
Church of St Teresa

To people of Sydney,
We have posed our districts that are far away from the city centre, I think it is about time we get some of yours.

Also show how much better can housing there be.
If there are so many world-class housing located in Sydney, post them, so far, I have only seen one. Now my only impression of Sydney outside of the beautiful promenades and waterfronts is urban sprawl.

Can you prove me wrong?

It gets quite boring looking at Olympic fireworks and the skyline all the time you know.;)

Btw, what we are doing is not so much of spam, but loyalty for our city and country, another notable trait of the people of Singapore.

The same happened on the LDN Vs Singapore thread (wasn't until I showed the 200,000 home and 150,000+ jobs created in 10 years Thames Gateway project that they kinda cooled off (lol stupid comments like a city within a city ).


before the current oversupply of hdb flats, 30 to 40 thousand apartments were built every year since the beginnign of hdb (probably less at the beginning in the late 1960s). that would probably be about 350000 new homes in a decade. as for jobs, unemployment stands at 4.5% now and is considered high. it used to be 0-2% and is expected to fall to 4% by the end of the year. i dont know how many jobs were created from in the past decade but the population has increased from 3 million in 1990 to 4 million in 2000 and is currently around 4.2 million. that should give an idea of the number of jobs created.

singapore is the fourth largest foreign exchange trading centre in the world, after UK, US, and Japan.

daily turnover
1. UK $637 billion
2. US $350 billion
3. Japan $149 billion
4. Singapore $139 billion
5. Germany $94 billion
6. Switzerland $82 billion
7. Hong Kong $79 billion


all of below in singapore dollars
GDP for 2003 - 159 billion
GDP / capita - 38023
GNI / capita - 37555

labour force participation - 64%
unemployment - 4.6%

external trade
total - 474 billion
export - 251 billion
import - 334 billion

tourist arrivals - 6.1 million (down from 7.6 million in the previous year because of sars)


sea cargo handled - 348 million freight tonnes
aircraft landings - 81000 (down from 91000 previously - sars)


commercial banks
local - 5
foreign - 110
assets / liabilities - 363 billion




Mass Rapid Transit (MRT) Introduced in 1987

Three main lines:


North South Line, running from Marina Bay to Jurong East via Woodlands.

East West Line, running from Pasir Ris to Boon Lay. The Changi Airport Extension, which was completed in Feb 2002, branches off from the East West Line at Tanah Merah Station and connects to Changi Airport.

North East Line (NEL), running from Punggol to HarbourFront. NEL is a fully underground line with 16 stations, 14 of which commenced passenger service on 20 June 2003. Its two interchange stations at Outram Park and Dhoby Ghaut connect the NEL to the existing two lines.


Operators : SMRT and SBS Transit


SMRT runs the North South and East West Lines
Stations: 51 operating stations.
Daily trips: 1.1 million

SBS Transit runs the newly-opened North East Line
Stations: 14 operating stations
Daily trips: 200, 000

total stations - 65
total daily trips: 1.3 million

Future Lines:

Future MRT developments include the Circle Line (CCL) which is currently under construction. The 34km CCL will link all radial rapid transit lines running into the city. CCL will interchange with the existing North-South and East-West Lines, as well as the North-East Line. It will be a fully automated rapid transit system and will be built in stages.

Light Rail Transit

Bukit Panjang LRT
- commenced operations in Nov 1999
- 14 stations and a depot
- All stations are within walking distance of less than 400m from most apartment blocks at Bukit Panjang and Choa Chu Kang. The depot is integrated with a commercial complex - Ten Mile Junction.

Seng Kang lrt line
- commenced operations in Jan 2003
- 14 stations and a depot
- The LRT station is fully integrated with Sengkang MRT station on the North East Line, acting as a feeder to the NEL

The Punggol LRT system currently under construction will have 15 stations along its route and will open later this year.


total number of operational LRT stations by end of this year - 43

total number of rail stations - 108



Public buses

No. of routes :
Trunk - 190 - TIBS (57), SBS (133)
Feeder - 71 - TIBS (19), SBS (52)
SBS - 185 services
Tibs - 76 services

Total Fleet :
3, 395 - TIBS (813), SBS (2,582

Daily trips :

SBS - 2.34 million passenger trips
Tibs - 661, 595 passenger trips




Taxis

Total Fleet :19,007

All fitted with meters; all airconditioned; about 90% of taxis have radiophones; call booking is done via GPS or digital voice despatch

Daily trips :about 588,632

Persons per taxi: about 220 (probably the lowest number in the world - and taxis are cheap too)

public transport in singapore has a stellar safety record. only the bukit panjang lrt has relatively frequent problems, but is having its system overhauled now to increase reliability.




State of the library


• The total number of libraries has increased from 15 in FY 1994 to 73 in FY 2003.

• Visitorship has been steadily increasing, from 5.5 million in FY 1994 to 31.7 million in FY 2002.

566,593 books and 32,908 serials in Malay

1,777,227 books and 86,942 serials in Chinese

215,522 books and 29,674 serials in Tamil

4,296,162 books and 518,492 serials in English


345 art prints

22,686 compact discs

81,183 computer files (includes CD-ROMs)

4,789 DVDs

2,640 VCDs

578 film strips

167 kits

384 maps

5,042 microfiche

2,808 microfilms

31,463 music scores

2,557 recorded discs

405 talking books

11,709 tape recordings

522 tape slides

125,623 videocassettes

3,736 videodiscs + laserdiscs

24 databases

371 other items (includes Braille, games, motion pictures, wall charts, flash cards, CDIs, picture collections)

Total of 297,008 special materials

Grand total of 7,820,528 items (books, serials and special materials)



according to sistic (www.sistic.com.sg), there are 25 venues for payable performing arts in singapore.







anymore statistics needed? nick it would be nice to have your opinion on why sydney is more varied and more beautiful 'without a question of a doubt'. btw me and another forumer lepainperdu have decided that you sound relaly smart and we wonder if you look like christopher bailey? (dont kill me for irrelevancy)

Alright alright.....enough of the pictures, I'm sure we don't all want to sit here waiting half an hour to wait for pictures to download while contemplating our debating stance. Anyway, great pictures in any case. Now for the facts:

SYDNEY:

Total stock market capitalisation as at 04 June 2004: AUD 800.98 billion (approx USD 557.00 billion)

Urban rail network: 306 stations (13 underground, 4 under construction). Although quite a few ~50 outside the continuous urban area.
Carries around 900,000 passengers per day.

Gross Regional Product as at September 2002 USD 89 billion (ie GDP for Sydney only)
Per capita is approx USD 21,907

Sydney Kingsford Smith Airport handled 4.55 million passengers so far this year up to 31 May 2004

Singapore

Total stock market capitalisation as at 31 Dec 2001 USD 117.338 billion (sorry can't find later figures)

Urban rail network- don't have a clue- sorry!

GDP as at September 2002 USD 87 billion
Per capita is approx USD 20,850

Singapore Changi International airport handled 4.69 million passengers so far this year up to 31 May 2004.

Summary- SYDNEY WINS!!!

The two cities are very similar to each other on a number of economic and population statistics, both being of similar global importance. Each outranks the other in certain fields- Sydney with its natural setting (world-famous harbour), Singapore an air hub for south east Asia, and Australians travelling to many other parts of the world.

On the aesthetic side of things, I find Sydney a far more interesting place, and not (only) because of its natural setting, but due to the totally unplanned nature of the place, a crazy street pattern, inner-city terrace housing and high-rise flats mixing it in with old and new commercial and industrial developments. It is not clean like Singapoe and far less regulated and organised. It has an urban area that goes on for 60 km give or take inland, and from north to south around the same distance. In that area lie a great variety of urban lifestyles and vistas, from low density housing surrounded by bushland to pockets of highrise around major transport centres, business parks and huge undercover shopping centres again in major public transport centres.

It is one of the most ethnically diverse cities on earth with around 35% of its residents speaking a language other than english at home and with ethnic communities both concentrated in certain suburbs, but still throughout the whole city. It is one of the most livable cities on Earth, always ranked above Singapore and is home to many world-famous landmarks which everyone knows about.

On another thread in this esteemed forum, you will find Sydney higher up peoples preferred cities to visit. Click here to see: 10 Cities to see before you die (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=106213&page=1&pp=20) Why??? Because Sydney is just better.

Cheers, btw, I do love Singapore too :grouphug:

@parraman - read what i painstakingly posted!!

singapore's urban rail network has 65 stations on the main lines, and 28 operational light rail stations with another 15 to open at the end of this year. the circle line underconstruction now will add another 29 stations by 2010 (phases 1, 2, 3 out of the 5 will commence operation earlier)

the total ridership on the main lines is 1.3 million.


2003 gdp per capita is SGD 38023, and assuming an exchange rate of USD1=SGD1.7, USD22,336.5.

2003 gdp is 159 billion, or USD93.5billion.

singapore is expecting 7% growth this year, taking into account oil prices and all that stuff. inflation this year is expected to be below 1%. while it may sound incredulous to australians, where you are all very happy to have inflation at 2-3% and economic growth at 4%, singapore's inflation rate has generally not been higher than 2% for the past decade, except 1993 where it was 2.3% and 1994 at 3.1%, while experiencing relatively high levels of growth. while singapore's economy has not been able to achieve the sustained 8-10% levels of economic growth experienced before the asian financial crisis, it has still been able to grow an average of 3-4% each year, while inflation is almost non existant, with deflation in 1998 and 2002, and slight inflation of 1% in 2001 and 1.3% in 2002.


can't find anything about market capitalisation but that looks pretty correct.

lastly about 55% of singaporeans can speak two languages :) i would have thought it to be higher because basically all of us speak our mother tongue +english. dont know about the 45%. maybe the previous generation.

Examples of housing in suburban Sydney

I'll start with The Forum development at St Leonards. It is a town square style development. It comprises of two towers, one 110 metres tall and the other 85 metres tall. The complex also includes office space. The podium comprises of retail surrounding a town square and St Leonards Railway Station

Town Square featuring a water feature

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid99/p4c40f2ce3f9d29862f156922ac072f96/f9f3d002.jpg

The Towers themselves

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid99/p3e097af1bc74a5bef49fd0b62af970b1/f9f3cc7b.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid99/pe2ac24012774154fae71924d84e1ff7f/f9f3cc30.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid103/p7d56f74a84f4e92aadcfe1a8f618688d/f9a523e2.jpg

Altura at Chatswood

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid99/p16b623c5d848fc7c831131c9a78dfb53/f9f3cd82.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid107/pa975e8979f77a0060ade7a97b665cf28/f95eb7b2.jpg

Soon to be built - Escen at Parramatta. It will become the suburbs tallest tower upon completition

http://extranet.emporis.com/files/transfer/6/2004/02/246214.jpg

Under construction is Discovery Point at Wolli Creek

http://extranet.emporis.com/files/transfer/6/2003/07/207136.jpg

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/509/379greenbank_jpg.jpg

Form at Victoria Park - under construction

http://img52.photobucket.com/albums/v158/culwulla/formvictoriapark.jpg

ESP - recently completed. Shot by CULWULLA

http://extranet.emporis.com/files/transfer/6/2004/02/245134.jpg

And for those Sydneysiders who prefer a normal home....

http://www.realestate.com.au/objects/props/7258/101597258mm1086224875.jpg

http://www.realestate.com.au/objects/props/4930/101584930mm1085887406.jpg

http://www.realestate.com.au/objects/props/5803/101575803mm1085531436.jpg

http://www.realestate.com.au/objects/props/4213/101544213mm1084349232.jpg

http://www.realestate.com.au/objects/props/7097/101537097mm1085612607.jpg

http://www.realestate.com.au/objects/props/0340/101600340mm1086265680.jpg

http://www.realestate.com.au/objects/props/6916/101536916mm1084155254.jpg

SYDNEY TRANSPORT

Kangaroo Express
http://www2.arnes.si/~uljfs13/gallery/aus99/aus_keng.jpg

Trains and Ferry Map
http://www.centralrailwayhotel.com/sydney_rail_ferry_map.gif

The New South Wales rail network is one of the world's most complex. It involves the operation of 2,900 services to carry over 900,000 passengers to and from 306 stations daily. The radial nature of the network itself makes the task of moving this number of people to and from work a real challenge.

Every day CityRail operates a fleet of more than 1,500 carriages over 2,060kms of track controlled by over 2,500 signals. With an operation this size, isolated problems are inevitable but we try to minimise them through regular maintenance and performance management.

We monitor our performance closely and will keep you up-to-date about how we are performing against our targets. CityRail aims to ensure that, on average at least 99 out of every 100 peak services run; and at least 92 out of every 100 peak services arrive within three minutes 59 seconds of their scheduled arrival time (five minutes 59 seconds for Intercity services). There are 261 morning peak trains and 188 afternoon peak trains.


Millenium Train
http://www.waterlogic.com.au/theintercityplatform/millennium_review/mset_review-logo.jpg
http://www.cityrail.info/aboutus/m_train/images/m_train_pic_2.jpg
http://www.lexicon.net/met/trains/jan03nsw/D1006_inside_Sun260103.jpg

Light Rail + Monorail
http://www.lexicon.net/met/trains/jan03nsw/MLR2107_SydneyKings_HaySt_Sun260103.jpg
http://freewaymonorail.org/images/sydney.JPGhttp://ozviews.homestead.com/files/MonoRail.jpg

SYDNEY FERRIES
With over 135 years on the harbour, no-one is better qualified to get you to and show you around Sydney's spectacular sights.

Our regular ferry services can bring you to 37 wharves, including the magical suburb of Manly, the wild Taronga Zoo and the historic riverside city of Parramatta. These services are great for commuting around our harbour-side suburbs and the ferry trips themselves are great voyages of discovery.

With Sydney Ferries, getting there is half the fun!

In addition to regular commuter services, Sydney Ferries also operates harbour cruises, special all-inclusive passes to Taronga Zoo and Sydney Aquarium.

http://www.sydneyferries.info/commonimages/sydferriestravelpass.gif

Jetcat
http://www.sydney-australien.de/tipps/transport/images/DSC01839.jpg

Manly ferry
http://www.sydney-australien.de/tipps/transport/images/DSC03195.jpg

Rivercat
http://www.sydney-australien.de/tipps/transport/images/DSC03668.jpg

Ferry
http://www.sydney-australien.de/tipps/transport/images/DSC03276.jpg

Sydney Buses
Buses gets you to your place of work, leisure, shopping and more. On an average working day, our services carry over 600,000 people on a network of over 300 routes.

We have one of the largest and most modern fleets, comprising in excess of 1,700 buses. Our newest buses are all low floor, wheelchair accessible and fully air-conditioned.

Sydney Buses also operates the popular Sydney Explorer and Bondi Explorer tourist services as part of the Sydney Pass ticket.

Western Sydney Buses
T-way is a rapid bus system offering faster direct services between major centres in Western Sydney.

T-way is a smarter, faster and safer way to travel and it takes people where they want to go, from early in the morning to late at night.

Liverpool Parramatta T-way features:


Buses every 10 minutes in each direction at peak times
31km link including 21km of bus-only roads
Modern, sheltered stations with drop off points
Find out more about the Liverpool Parramatta T-way (Route

http://www.sydneybuses.info/busfleet/sbbus21ba.jpg
http://www.sydneybuses.info/busfleet/sbbus24fa.jpgSydney



more to come

Bridges...
Here is a few of the larger ones I can find images of

Sydney Harbour Bridge - Widest long span bridge in the world
http://www.uni-ulm.de/~hschiefe/omg/images/sydney-bridge.jpg

Anzac Bridge
http://newton-i.usefilm.com/7/4/9/749/191895-small.jpg
http://graphics.worldweb.com/PhotoImages/MichaelH/NSWSydneyAnzacBridge.jpg

Gladesville Bridge - was the longest pre-stressed concrete arch in the world
http://www.oca.nsw.gov.au/ecology/BinaryData/gladesville_bridge.jpg

Mooney Creek Bridge
http://www.quarry.com.au/sand3.jpg

Watch out Singapore or we might bite you... World's Deadliest Spider.

Don't let its mean appearance scare you... let it terrify you... they are deadly. :) For the 6 million or so people living in the danger zone it presents very few problems. Anti-venom ensures any that might get bitten can be hosptalised quickly and effectively.

In the house I grew up we readily saw them in our pool... but they get so mushy living on the bottom of a pool that cant readily attack you when you fish them out. In that same house I also had one in my bedroom and two in my bathroom, both of which were on the lower levels of the house. I had never once seen them on the upper levels. They are vicious if provoked and it takes very little to make them mad. They rear up ready to strike... best to leave them alone.
http://www.on-luebeck.de/~mlemke/spinnen/Image2.gif
http://rad.sprucemoose.net/ylian/funnelweb.jpg

I have also seen plenty of Red-bellied black snakes (also venomous) and Red-Back spiders, they are found mostly in rock gardens or around pots or certain types of plants... they are also venomous. Normally these live near waterways like creeks rivers and lakes.

http://members.tripod.com/~snakyo/redbellied.jpg

Very few people are bitten by any of these creatures including the sharks, jelly-fish and blue ringed-octopus, they might seem a little scary to share the environs with but like I said most people don't notice or have any problems with them.

Sporting Venues... just a few examples... many many more...
Well we all know the olympic venues...
http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0009/13ikonosolympics/stadium.jpg
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2000/20000823/22ttnws2.gif

Telstra Stadium (Stadium Australia - Pre reconfiguration)
http://www.haozheng.com/Travel/Australia/Sydney2000/StadiumAustralia.JPG
http://eur.i1.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/xp/lequipe/20031006/18/1668495548.jpg

Aussie Stadium
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/oceania/australia/new_south_wales/sydney_aussie.jpg

Sydney Cricket Ground
http://users.bigpond.net.au/blackcaps/photos/scgrain.jpg

Here we have 2 different type of MRT trains for the NS & EW Lines ,driverless trains for NEL ,the Monorial on Sentosa ,BirdPark ,etc.Sgp does not have such huge bridges because we do not have huge spans of water to span.

Does Sdy have a high level restaurant higher than 260m?

Or ,does it have a restaurant in a hotel at 210m high?

Does it have a building with 35-storey external glass lifts?

Does it have 50-storey public flats?With skygardens and skybridges somemore?

who cares.. the one thing i hate about singapore is everyone is so kiasu .. kns

You crack me up Redstone, such a lame comback to transport and sporting venues... What we have is comparable to your trival list of acheivements. :)

Sydney Tower Resturants...
http://www.sydney-tower-restaurant.com/
Height of Restaurant(s):
Upper (Self Select) 246m/807ft Revolving
Lower (Al Carte) 243m/797ft Revolving

The Summit - revolving
The Summit Restaurant is a landmark dining experience offering absolutely unbeatable spectacular 360° views revolving 165 metres, 47 floors atop Australia Square. With an international reputation, the Summit boasts an unsurpassed panorama that features the Sydney Opera House, Harbour Bridge, Darling Harbour, the Botanical Gardens and the CBD.

As for the hotels... I really don't know but we don't have hotel restaurants generally on the top floors... some like the Marriot on College street and 10 Bond Street feature roof top pools, sauna, gym, spas and BBQ areas. The Peak Features a high rise jogging track.

There are exposed glass elevators on some towers... both in the city and the suburban CBDs but the heights of which I don't know. The Monitor Money Building in Chatswood has one but is not over 35 floors.

Most western country's residents would not consider 50 Story public flats something to be proud of... most would prefer a house, garden and private grounds. I understand in Singapore land is scarse and different people value different living but honestly vast fields of public housing blocks are not fantastic.
Our public housing is most often just that... public housing.

Sydney's Churches

Many of the city's significant churches were built with sandstone

St Marys Cathedral - Catholic

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid52/pee0668c6e597b108a4159c0ba5f4d5d5/fc9af0ca.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid69/pf0f46cb663e62ee224296e79d7d3ac1b/fba57168.jpg

St Andrews Cathedral - Anglican

http://www.csr-berlinweb.de/St%20Andrews%20Cathedral%20Sydney.jpg

St Phillips Anglican Church - Anglican

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid97/p105db3c13da6b0f75eaf3aa24229a356/fa09fc7b.jpg

St Stephens Uniting Church - Uniting Church of Australia

http://www.fbe.unsw.edu.au/Research/Student/SydneyChurches/pictures/normal/stephens.jpg

http://www.fbe.unsw.edu.au/Research/Student/SydneyChurches/pictures/normal/philips1.jpg

St James Church. I'm sure it's protestant

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid63/pd2e23c29ed3451ab8f1bfb8c57717df9/fc0b059c.jpg

who cares.. the one thing i hate about singapore is everyone is so kiasu .. kns

kiasu
Afraid of "losing out" to other people.

LOL so true

We have a whole country to fall back on they only have one city. Imagine if Sydney, Brisbane, Melbourne, the Gold Coast Canberra and Perth were combined into a single city... would provide a very in comparison indeed! lol

Singapore is a fantastic place but alot of you seem to argue trivalities in this debate.

Besides we are the only country in the world to offer Kangaroo Express, just ask some of the americans... I am sure they have heard of it. LOL

@fabian - that's something i notice about australian abodes - i have not noticed any umm... less boring designs. i thought that was only confined to perth, but apparently it's the same in sydney.


@avatar - 306 stations and double deck trains and yet only 900,000 passengers? you probably can see the cost ineffectiveness of urban sprawl here. no wonder you australians are paying so much tax.

also, 1700 buses is barely half of the total fleet in singapore, yet the area covered is many times larger with the same population. while most people drive, it's really inconvenient for those who take the bus.




here are some bridges in singapore as well. singapore has no large expanse of water that needs crossing barring the straits between singapore and malaysia so the bridges can't be on the same scale as those in sydney. some are quite beautiful nonetheless.

the tanjong rhu bridge - a footbridge between expensive residentials and the indoor stadium area.
http://www.jsphilatelics.com/MamiyaBridges/WFBridgeLR.jpg


jiak kim bridge
http://www.jsphilatelics.com/MamiyaBridges/RobertsonBridgeLR.jpg



coleman bridge
http://www.jsphilatelics.com/MamiyaBridges/ColemanBridgeLR.jpg



the esplanade bridge - i absolutely love this one. very subtle bridge
http://www.jsphilatelics.com/MamiyaEdlin/EsplanadeBridgeLR.jpg



alkaff bridge
http://www.jsphilatelics.com/MamiyaBridges/FullViewAlkaffLR.jpg



remarkable view of skyline, esplanade bridge and anderson bridge
http://www.jsphilatelics.com/Drum2Web/Js2JPGPsizeLR.jpg



anderson bridge
http://www.jsphilatelics.com/MamiyaGeneral/AndersonLR.jpg



benjamin sheares bridge - it's actually much longer than what you see in the picture and could probably be as tall as a 10 storey building.
http://www.jsphilatelics.com/MamiyaBridges/BShearBridgeLR.jpg


there are more but i'm sure there are too many pictures already :P


those spiders.. ummm thank goodness they're only in sydney.. are they often sighted?

and um.. if sydney brisbane melbourne gold coast canberra and perth were to combine into a single city... well that's quite ridiculous to even suggest (perhaps even desperate) but they'd form nothing more than an affluent bangkok. with less low rises of course, more houses. perhaps a tokyo or a seoul. seoul more likely.


more residences
light at cairnhill
http://www.wingtaiasia.com.sg/images/property/cairnhill_night.jpg



newton 18 - this style seems very australian to me somehow
http://www.wingtaiasia.com.sg/images/property/newton18-01.gif




the serenade - looks boring - but its "First Keyless Condominium in Singapore", being the first private condominium to feature the use of "keyless" technology where doors and other security points are controlled by fingerprint scanning device.
http://www.wingtaiasia.com.sg/images/property/serenade.jpg

http://www.wingtaiasia.com.sg/images/property/serenade_penthouse.jpg



the edge - by architect moshe safdie
http://www.landseer.com.sg/theedge/TheEdge6.jpg



the ladyhill - chan soo khian
http://www.landseer.com.sg/ladyhill/condoview.jpg



the colonnade - paul rudolph
http://www.landseer.com.sg/colonnade/tower.jpg


the loft at nassim hill
http://www.landseer.com.sg/theloft/08.jpg



paterson edge
http://www.landseer.com.sg/paterson/patersonart.jpg
pools like these that allow you to feel like a fish are becoming popular
http://www.landseer.com.sg/paterson/pool_north.jpg




houses in singapore
http://www.landseer.com.sg/hollandluxury/front.jpg

http://www.landseer.com.sg/hollandluxury/terrace.jpg

http://www.landseer.com.sg/hollandluxury/living.jpg

http://www.landseer.com.sg/vanda/vanda1.jpg

moulmein rise
http://www.uol.com.sg/uol/images/Perspective21_tn.jpg


possible future development
http://www.keppelland.com.sg/img/res/singapore/pic_clunyhill3.jpg

http://www.keppelland.com.sg/img/res/singapore/pic_clunyhill2.jpg

the linc
http://www.keppelland.com.sg/img/res/singapore/pic_thelinc.jpg



in the papers today: a 3000 sq ft house resembling a ship for 1.58 million. weird.
http://www.straitstimes.com.sg/mnt/media/image/launched/2004-06-06/invest24b.jpg

This is the public bus system... you forget that there are also many private bus companies in Sydney.

There is nothing wrong with using cars for a vast majority of the population. Most of the population also have no need to travel to the CBD... everything they need is usually located close by with massive suburban malls and services as required.

The double decker trains don't pretend to be more efficient than single decks... they are a feature of Sydney and many of the stations have been designed around them. I like them and would rather them stay this way.

I like your bridges but they are hardly of a calibre comparable to those I have posted for Sydney. I could have kept posting but I considered only large wide span bridges of any interest here.

As for taxes... you seem to also forget that Sydney as the most populous city in Australia has to invariably fund infrastructure works through the entire state. We are not a city state like yourselves and have vastly greater infrastructure to support. Any wonder why we pay more taxes.

wow what a boring spam fest this thread has turned into... i think both cities suck now:)

As for taxes... you seem to also forget that Sydney as the most populous city in Australia has to invariably fund infrastructure works through the entire state. We are not a city state like yourselves and have vastly greater infrastructure to support. Any wonder why we pay more taxes.
If you guys prefer to "discuss" about issues, fine with me. But before I go into it full time, may I just point out to you, that supporting an entire country of 4 million people on a small piece of land dosent cost much less then an entire state hungreds of times bigger. I do not know why you seem to suggest that infrastructural works make up the biggest proportion of expenditure, but if that is supposedly the case in Sydney, it certainly isnt the case in Singapore.

This is where the taxpayer's money go to in Singapore for FY2002:

http://www.sg/explore/images/snap_expenditure.gif

The simple reason why Singapores pay less taxes in cases like GST, or personal income tax, is because it is substaintiated by taxation coming in from other sources such as taxation on the purchase of cars to curb the car population, on cigarrettes to discourage their use, and so on. At the same time, Singapore is not a 100% welfare state. Healthcare is semi-subsidied, on a pro-rated basis according to income brackets. Education is free for up to 12 years, but tertiary education is semi-subsidised. The unemployed cannot sit around at home asking for governmental monetary support. They are expected to seek work on their own, unless they are unable to work due to health reasons and excruciating circumstances.

Low tax, therefore, certainly does not translate into less money for infrastructure. Nothing is as simple as that.

FFS, have some pity for the cablers. I've got 10 Mbit download and I'm struggling to load all the pages.

Not everybody has every single picture already in their browser cache.

BTW - I don't think many people actually bother to read everything in the thread, and most people already have their minds made up, and no amount of picture or information spam will be able to sway them.

hrm i ithink so too

I can't believe people here are bringing up infrastructure costs and taxes. Of course Singapore and Sydney are going to be completely different. Infrastructure costs in Australia is bound to cost more because of the tyrany of distance. That's a no brainer. Sydney represents the capital of a State. It does not represent a country so there is no point comparing things that are on 2 different tiers or 2 different levels such as taxes and infrastructure like telecommunications.

Some things compared here are just lifestyle issues. Sydney has more sprawl due to there being many more houses. Singapore has density due to funded high rise. But, in Sydney you do have a choice and that is simply how it is. To own a house that is detached and of any reasonable size in Singapore you have to be very very rich. But, that is not a criticism as space is a premium. We aint comparing apples with apples here.

BTW, saying Perth has boring abodes, to quote Heirloom, @fabian - that's something i notice about australian abodes - i have not noticed any umm... less boring designs. i thought that was only confined to perth, but apparently it's the same in sydney. is a bit offensive. It's easy for me to say that Singapore abodes are boring too since most live in high rise but I don't. Perth does has diversity. There are apartments going up everywhere in the centre of Perth (just announced, a 50 storey and a 47 storey 1000 unit apartment development) and it has it's boring sprawl too, It has affluent coastal suburbs and the high end millionare rows so it's not all boring. If you want to live in "the hills" with the convenience of the metro nearby, you can. Please refrain from sweeping statements. That's the same as me saying Singapore is boring because all it is is a city. With any Australian city you can get away from it and be in the same country. You can go to the best beaches, even ski in the snow etc etc. Australia is also about the great outdoors but it's no fault of Singapore's that it can't offer this. Singapore has it's own riches and great points. Let's keep this clean and fair guys :).

I can't believe people here are bringing up infrastructure costs and taxes. Of course Singapore and Sydney are going to be completely different.

Yeah Heirloom you suck ;) Our friend Rose Hancock Porteus will eat you alive for saying her perth mansion Prix d'Amour is boring ;) ... I can assure you it is anything but! This is not really about Perth anyway. To say that Sydney's housing is boring would be foolhardy, you only have to look at some of the houses from the more affluent areas to acertain this. Houses and lanscapes so varied some would shock you. From the massive old estate mansions in Waroongah and Killara to modern cliff huging edifaces in Whale and Palm beach. McMansions in Kellyville and Cambeltown to quaint restored terraces in Glebe and Redfern. Of course there are boring houses and even boring suburbs but there are also many spectacular homes all over the city some tall enough to be buildings in their own right. Some sububs will show 5 level houses stretching down cliffs with cantelivered pools stretched out over escapments dangling precariously over the ground well below!

Homer thanks for this post is it so true! tyranny of distance and the fact that Sydney supports a state and country not just some measly little plot of land (city state) as in Singapore's case; it makes Sydney's job as a cohesive city that much more difficult. I have said that both have much to offer but they still have many differences which make them uneasy to compare completely.

I bored with debating... time for a rest i say!

Heriloom - No, I was talking about one project (Thames Gateway) there are several other ones going around London, eg the M11 London-Cambridge, M3 + M4 + M40, London-Brighton, London-Milton Keynes, etc. The Thames Gateway was just the one that came to my head first.

The harbour setting is a lot more attractive. There is no doubt about that in any way. Singapore can't compare to the bridges as well. For christs sake were talking about one of the worlds most noticable landmarks on the face of the planet! A lot of people would find it difficult naming a noticable bridge in Singapore.

And no I do not look like Christopher Bailey :|


Redstone - Stop throwing those useless arguments of "I bet you dont have a restaurant 250m above the ground, etc"....that means nothing to me or anyone else. For all we know it could be a restaurant serving McDonald's-esque food.


I wish all sides would stop with the picture spam cause it is really spoiling the actual debate. I'm on a 11Mb wireless laptop so it doesn't affect me whatsoever. But for others they will be unable to reply after several minutes of trying to download the first page!

I wish all sides would stop with the picture spam cause it is really spoiling the actual debate. I'm on a 11Mb wireless laptop so it doesn't affect me whatsoever. But for others they will be unable to reply after several minutes of trying to download the first page!

Well......not everyone shares your sentiment of these 'picture spam'. I actually loved it a lot. I remember you posted a lot more pictures in the Sg Vs Ldn thread........

Anyway .....to reduce the number of pictures per page.....I would suggest to put less picture per post so that a single page wouldn't load that long. ;)

Chad... have you heard of the Rocks? I guess not?


Well Avatar.....I guess you have no idea how a traditional Malay fishing village is like. The Rocks consist of mostly masonry structures and they could be comparable to the old Singapore shophouses of Chinatown etc. These fishing village are of wooden structures and are usually on stilts so they present a greater contrast ;)

i wasn't really comparing taxes (if that's what you meant) but just commenting that the sprawled-ness of sydney and australia in general gives rise to higher tax.

the hdb flats in singapore are subsidised only for the first owners - after that in the resale market they are normally priced.


i'm sorry if i seemed offensive. it wasn't my intention. however i still stick with my argument that dense cities (not just singapore) are visually (and also in terms of retail and consumer-ish stuff - but perhaps not outdoorsy stuff) are more interesting than sprawled out cities (not just sydney or perth). while there may be the 5 storey beachhouses along the millionaire rows in the coastal areas, most of the city is left with mostly single or double storey abodes. most of them seem to hover around the same colours as well - tan brick, or grey for the newer ones or umm for the older ones red brick. and they seem to go on as far as the eye can see.

in a dense city its the same - all the prettiest condominiums are in the richest areas, while the more conventional (although you do get nice surprises once in a while) condominiums and largely identical public housing dominate the not so rich areas. however the height of the buildings itself create a totally different atmosphere. also while the older public housing blocks tend to be largely identical, they have qutie different and sometimes quite garish colour schemes. ugly - but not necessarily boring. the not-as-old estates tend to have differing heights to create a less boring scene. i'm not explaining this very well but i hope you get what i mean.

by the way a family friend in perth lives in bicton - it's one of those millionaire areas isnt it - just by the river. i have yet to see any interesting houses in that area. almost all are of rather conventional styles, except for this bauhaus-ish one across the road. even that isn't interesting, but rather cliched. i could post a pic if wanted.

i have no idea who rose hancock porteus is :? post a pic of her and her house?

simply telling me sydney has got interesting houses isn't much use. there are lotsa pics on this thread (unfortunately mostly of signapore) but i haven't seen a single interesting sydney house. i'm sure there are somewhere.

you're saying the interesting houses in sydney are confined to the rich areas. that leaves a at least 90% (probably? correct me) of the housing areas being totally boring. most of the houses in singapore are terribly dull too, but because those who live in a house are generally more affluent than those who dont, you get interesting houses in popping up everywhere. people tear down the old (architecturally insignificant) ones and build sometimes gorgeous sometimes gaudy and tacky new houses. but people are tending towards the gorgeous side these days :)

as for the really large houses, you can see them around in singapore too. nothing much to say to that.

oh and um we've got old colonial houses - quite a number of them.. just one pic here :P

this one has a land area of 37800 sq ft and a built up area of 6000 sq ft and is being rented for $17k a month. from landseer (www.landseer.com.sg).
http://www.landseer.com.sg/182mtpleasant/front.jpg


@ nick
well ok that's not relevant here anyway. (thames and stuff)

of course singapore's bridges can't compare to the harbour bridge as a world landmark and stuff but i think they're still rathe pretty :). if its size you're thinking about, look at all those bridges across seoul's han river or something... that main river. monstrous and disgusting. my point here is that size is not such a big determining factor in beauty. singapore's bridges are not nameable (i dont know the names myself) but does popularity make a city prettier?

I've been to The Summit and The Orbit Bar at Australia Sq and The Equinox at Swissotel Singapore and I like both. Yes....both had nice view but I still think that Swissotel offers a better view as there is no buildings which blocks its view. The Summit scored on the fact that it is a revolving restaurant/bar :D

i have no idea who rose hancock porteus is :? post a pic of her and her house?


Well Rose's mansion is probably Australia's largest and nicest house. She's a Filipino maid whom became the lover of one of Australia's richest man and after his death, most of his fortune are inherited by this woman. If I am not mistaken, the man's daughter are in a bitter war with Rose to regain her dad's wealth.

She named her controversial mansion Prix d'Amour (Price Of Love) and there are rumours she only bathe in milk with rose petals :D


...that's all I know........can't find any picture of the house but I recall it as a white Neo-Classical mansion with huge Roman columns! :eek:

Sorry a bit off topic here but I believe everyone would like to have a look at Prix d'Amour :D

Here's some pictures:

http://www.aussiehome.com/images/properties/25562/25562_LG.jpg

http://www.aussiehome.com/images/properties/25562/25562_MP1.jpg

http://www.aussiehome.com/images/properties/25562/25562_MP6.jpg

you're saying the interesting houses in sydney are confined to the rich areas. that leaves a at least 90% (probably? correct me) of the housing areas being totally boring. most of the houses in singapore are terribly dull too, but because those who live in a house are generally more affluent than those who dont, you get interesting houses in popping up everywhere. people tear down the old (architecturally insignificant) ones and build sometimes gorgeous sometimes gaudy and tacky new houses. but people are tending towards the gorgeous side these days

Nah that's not what I'm saying, all i am saying is that it is more likely you will see a more interesting house in the more afffluent areas. Many of the middle-class suburbs can have some very interesting houses also, even some of the poorer suburbs will have interesting properties. There are many affluent areas of Sydney and not all of these are on the water. These areas would account for far greater than 10% of Sydney's total house volume. I many pic to share and to be honest and I cant be bothered looking atm.

North Head - near Manly
http://chrispederick.myacen.com/images/photos/albums/2001/13_australia_sydney_august/house.jpg

House by Seidler - infamous skyscraper architect
http://www.seidler.net.au/graphics/005_DT01.jpg

House by Glenn Murcutt - Inner City Paddington
http://www.archnewsnow.com/features/images/Feature0018_04x.jpg

older home
http://www.s-h-systems.co.uk/hotels/images/sydn2.jpg/img]

Modest Beach-front home
[img]http://stdw.tourism.nsw.gov.au/multimedia/TNSW/o529264.jpg

This is rather cool...
http://www.sydney-australien.de/sydney2001/02-01-06/DSC04484.jpg

Middle Harbour I think... not sure
http://www.premier1.net/~chrisant/img160.jpg





Rose Hancock Porteous is a Perth celebrity with an extremely ostentacious house. You would call it tacky in the extreme.

Well Rose's mansion is probably Australia's largest and nicest house. She's a Filipino maid whom became the lover of one of Australia's richest man and after his death, most of his fortune are inherited by this woman. If I am not mistaken, the man's daughter are in a bitter war with Rose to regain her dad's wealth.

Prix d'Amour is not even close to being Australia's nicest or largest house, maybe one of the tackiest but thats about it - there are neo-gothic castles in Sydney, a historical estate in Sydney was put on the market a few months ago for about 40 million or so.
Her home is nothing special from all the other mansions in that area of Perth.

Rose Porteous Hancock or whatever her name is, is pretty infamous, but I think shes funny, I remember when she had her own reality show "Rose" which followed her life in her mansion with all her poodles in Perth, I think her step-daughter is just a bitch - she is already the second richest woman in Australia or something and Rose deserved the money for having to sleep with
that old fossil!

I've been to The Summit and The Orbit Bar at Australia Sq and The Equinox at Swissotel Singapore and I like both. Yes....both had nice view but I still think that Swissotel offers a better view as there is no buildings which blocks its view. The Summit scored on the fact that it is a revolving restaurant/bar :D


I agree, swissotel top floor has a great view, I have also been to both it and the the summit... but i think I like Sydney Tower resturant's view better than both. It is also revolving and the food was good last time i was there was a memorable occasion. None of which were comparable to Windows on the World WTC - mind blowing!

If anyone thinks that Sg's public housing is dull ,I suggest them to check out the towns of Sengkang and Punggol.

Well ,(no offense) but I'm getting tired of seeing the Harbour Bridge and the Opera House as landmarks there.And ,they are both old.

There are a lot of super-big mansions and bungalows too.They are located at the presitgious Bukit Timah ,Tanglin and Orchard areas.Some of the richest people in Singapore ,and some political figures live in those huge houses.They come with a huge plot of land ,with very tall hedges.

Yah ,we've got colonial houses everywhere ,most at Tanglin ,Bukit Timah ,Orchard and River Valley areas.

The nicest and most expensive condos are located at Tanglin ,Orchard and River Valley districts.

If you are looking for those 'hip' modern condos ,look at those in Novena ,posted by heir and Raff.This district is just a short drive away from the prestigious Orchard district.

A little less than 5 years ago ,there were mainly lowrise apartments and only about 10 mid-rise apartments and 4 highrise offices there.Now ,it is revived ,with many brand-new highrise condos rising silmultaneously.

Now ,several 30 storey plus condos are under construction.There were also several highrise offices there ,like the MHA / Police HQ twin towers.And the Police HQ's spires light up in blue at night. :cool:

You should see it for yourself.

Well ,(no offense) but I'm getting tired of seeing the Harbour Bridge and the Opera House as landmarks there.And ,they are both old.

Excuse me, those images have not been shown much at all, however the amount of Singapore photo spam got boring long ago.
Besides, your only complaining about them because Singapore has nothing that can compare with them.

Sydney is very unique, however I cant find what sets S'pore apart from most average Asian cities? Apart from being clean.

Our historical architecture beats Singapores rather dull colonial buildings, thanks to the British Empire, we have neo-gothic marvels such as the Queen Victoria Building, St Mary's Cathedral, Government House, GPO Centre, Town Hall, Australian Museum, Sydney University, St Patricks College etc etc

Most Sydney forumers cant be bothered to post in this thread, because we have nothing to prove about our great city - most of the world already knows how great it is too, as Sydney is a very iconic and famous city.

@heirloom, thanks for posting that info on pt usage a few pages back, I read it, but you snuck it in while I was busy typing my own post. Very interesting indeed. And glad you could get figs for 2003, it is very difficult to get info on Sydney's (as opposed to NSW's, or Australia's) economic figures as you would expect.

Due to the inefficient nature of urban sprawl, it is very unfortunate that Sydney has suffered its fair share of it, although not to the same extent as most other Australian cities. One thing overlooked however, is that for the last three years, construction of dwellings in multi-unit developments have outnumbered low-density housing by a reasonable margin. And that the City of Sydney (ie central, high-density area) has had Australia's highest population growth rate over the last 5 years, growing in the vicinity of 100% over that time. Obviously, this is good for increased pt usage.

On the other hand, the urban sprawl for which Sydney is well known, represents an opportunity for the future which Singapore undoubtedly lacks to an extent- urban consolidation, with the redevelopment of low-density into medium or high-density, and again thus improving public transport usage.

As for taxes, most Australian's would disagree with me, but international research has found that Australia is in fact one of the lowest-taxed nations in the OECD, as it runs a system not too unlike that of Singapore with a limited social benefits program.

With regards to someones question about external elevators, 126 Philip St (Sir Norman Foster designed) is currently under construction, with 39 office floors and exposed elevators running up the whole building, as well as the foyer. It will be a new landmark for Sydney.

And finally to inflation, the Federal Government chose a 2-3% rate as being ideal, not because it was achievable, due to inflation rates lower than that generally leading to lower rates of investment among other ills.

Cheers

i dont really think the houses you posted are anything too notable.. in singapore, there's a high rise 20 odd storey version of the seidler house (perhaps more) as well as a short 4 storey 8 unit version.

there's also a darker red version (larger low rise condominium) of the one that you descirbed as rather cool.

unfortunately i do not know the names of the projects or their developers

here are some houses that i think are rather noteworthy or at least good looking.

http://www.landseer.com.sg/coronationretreat/01_pool.jpg



http://www.landseer.com.sg/vandavicinity/house.jpg


look at the open air concept toilet with philippe starck fittings!! (basin faucet toilet bowl and flush panel)
http://www.landseer.com.sg/vandavicinity/guest_wash.jpg



not as nice but still interesting three storey project
http://www.landseer.com.sg/trevose/trevose.jpg



http://www.redas.com/Html/showcasing/goldenhill/images/home_r2_c3.gif


http://www.landseer.com.sg/belmont/BelmontNew29.jpg


turns out it's quite hard to find pics of pretty houses. um will have to make do with these

WA mansions on par with record price
http://www.sundaytimes.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,1658,350447,00.jpg
PERTH has at least three mansions worth more than a Sydney "castle", touted as the most expensive home on the Australian market.

Three Mosman Park properties are in the same league as the Sydney waterfront mansion, known as The Swifts, which is on sale for $35 million to $40 million.

The Clough family's property in Mosman Park could fetch $40 million on block value alone. Two others – a mansion owned by mining magnate Mark Creasy and an estate owned by iron-ore heiress Angela Bennett – sit on land each valued at $35 million or more.

Rose Porteous's stately Prix d'Amour, on the market for $32 million, is also in the running.

Sydney's The Swifts is a "castellated gothic revival" house on 1.2ha in exclusive Darling Point. Built in 1880, it has 50 rooms including 15 bedrooms and a ballroom bigger than the one at Sydney's Government House.

The National Trust listed the property in 1971. Nursing home magnate Doug Moran bought the property for $12 million in 1997 and spent $14 million restoring it.

But you don't need a heritage-listed "castle" to have a $30 million home in Perth – uninterrupted, elevated, north-facing river views on a healthy swag of land will do it.

The 10,000sq m Clough family property, with six homes valued at up to $3 million each, is top of the Perth real estate pile.

Mrs Bennett's Saunders St spread includes a grand mansion and two guesthouses on 9000sq m. According to Adam Lenegan, of Claremont real estate agency Mack Hall and Associates, the block value alone is $35 million.

Mrs Bennett, whose father, Peter Wright, was the partner of late iron-ore magnate Lang Hancock, is rumoured to have spent $20 million carving the complex into the hillside.

But if she were to put the property on the market, the asking price wouldn't come to $55 million.

"On the market it would go close to block value," Mr Lenegan said.

He said land values in Saunders St ranged from $3000 a square metre on the high side to $5000 to $6000 a square metre for land with direct river access.

Mr Creasy has a similar-sized property which would fetch a similar price. Mrs Porteous's 8117sq m Prix d'Amour will be carved up if it doesn't sell soon, according to her husband William Porteous, an Acton agent.

Sydney holds the record for the most expensive house sale. Altona, a harbourfront mansion in Point Piper, sold in 2002 for $28.5 million. Perth's record is $9.5 million for Alan Bond's former home in Watkins Rd, Dalkeith, in 1999.
http://www.sundaytimes.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,7034,9754957%255E2761,00.html

BLVD or Boulevard Residences

36 storeys with 42 units from level 6 so all apartments have a view. priced at $1000/psf, so minimum price would be $2.8 million for 2800 sqft, and $10 million for each of the 2 3-level super penthouses. there are also 2 2-level junior penthouses.
http://www.scglobal.com.sg/images/bl01.jpg


the ladyhill
nestled in the lush nassim hill area near orchard road, the 56 apartments go for about $1600-$1800 psf.
http://www.scglobal.com.sg/images/lhmorepix1.jpg




very ugly house - watten estate
7200sq ft land area, 4300 sq ft built up for $4.6 million
http://www.landseer.com.sg/wattenestate/pebblegarden.jpg





According to the Corcoran Group, the top ten most expensive cities in the world, by price per square foot, are: Toyko, Japan ($1,271 per square foot); Hong Kong, China ($1,220); London, England ($1,101); Singapore ($906); New York ($890); Kobe, Japan ($884); Sydney, Australia ($839); Stockholm, Sweden ($753); Paris, France ($700); and Zurich, Switzerland ($667).



thanx for the extra perth info chrisaus.

http://www.asiangirlsnextdoor.com/indexgraphics/newspecies.jpg

why dont we make this more interesting and debate which city has better looking girls... Sydney has the new Miss Universe..

but singapore has no end of hot cute babes and of course is the birhtplace of Annabel Chong .. my vote is for singapore :D
Lets all go off to Geylang and RELAK JACK

http://www.sggirls.com/photos/sgGirls.com_-_00068942.jpg

http://www.sggirls.com/photos/sgGirls.com_-_00068325.jpg http://www.sggirls.com/photos/sgGirls.com_-_00068237.jpg
http://gallery4.urabonjapan.com/apr2004/KomikoHara2/11.jpg http://www.hyperfree.com/asian/calendar/strawberry/Grabbed-Frame-29.jpg
http://www.hyperfree.com/asian/calendar/strawberry/Grabbed-Frame-31.jpg http://www.asian10s.com/galleries/006/04/09.jpg

:D Lets all be kakis

This thread is doing fine at this moment, just try not to start any arguements.:)

By the way Singapre.. whats this:
http://www.keppelland.com.sg/img/res/singapore/pic_clunyhill3.jpg

@ jada - that's a rendering of a possible private house. that project actually allows the buyers of the plots of land on sale to choose the architect and custom design a house for them. that's an idea the specific architect's style. those are terribly expensive houses - i have no idea how much 10 million at the very least and i wouldnt be surprised to see 30 or 40 million - only 10 of them offered.

lol that little cycle thing is hilarious. unfortunately that pagoda columbarium will be pulled down to make way for high value residences - it's got a beautiful view up there.. i go there every year.

the urns will be moved to the expansion of another columbarium site, which i go to every year as well.. here are two of the new buildings. they're quite pretty (to me) so i can't resist posting.

http://img16.photobucket.com/albums/v47/sybarite/columbarium/IMGP3423.jpg

http://img16.photobucket.com/albums/v47/sybarite/columbarium/IMGP3424.jpg

On the other hand, the urban sprawl for which Sydney is well known, represents an opportunity for the future which Singapore undoubtedly lacks to an extent- urban consolidation, with the redevelopment of low-density into medium or high-density, and again thus improving public transport usage.
Hi, I find reason to dispute your insistence that the "lack of space" in Singapore presents some kind of limits on its possibilities, as compared to cities which face relatively little physical limitations for lateral growth.

Perhaps you represent the kind of conservative thinking the Singapore government probably have too. The state planning authorities made a conceptual plan for Singapore's future physical development, believing the land can only sustain up to a maximum of 4 million inhabitants comfortably. As late as the 1991 Concept Plan, when the population was at 3,135,800, they predicted the 4 million mark will be reached after the year 2010. Little did they know that the 4 million mark was crossed in the year 2000, at 4,017,700 that year.

This faster then expected growth in population figures showed that even the government can under-estimate the ability of a piece of land in supporting a much higher number of people then thought, and even without all the planned physical infrastructure which were supposed to be in place to support it. By the governments own admission when they drew up the next revision of the concept plan in 2001 in their gross under-estimation for the 1991 plans and earlier, their latest plan is now based on a 5.5 million population mark expected to be reached in 40 to 50 years time. Something tells me they may be under-estimating things again.

http://www.ura.gov.sg/conceptplan2001/images/bigmap.gif

The plan takes into the account further land reclamation which can yield up to 15% more land for the country, beyond which there is expected to be physical limits in further expansion sideways.

But do the country hit its limits once it reaches that land size, and 5.5 million people? I say it is unlikely.

Singapore is far from reaching the the situation in Hong Kong. They have 6.803.1 million peole (in 2003) squeezed into land less then 125.8 sq km of builtup land area. Compare that to the 321.6 sq km of builtup area in Singapore for 4,185.2 million people (2003). When it comes to issues like housing, Singapore's "high-rise" flats are actually far from optimising available land. The vast majority of flats here are less then 20 floors high, even thou height controls allows for much higher blocks. Already, the older flats, some standing at only 4 floors, are demolished to make way for newer ones going beyond 30 floors. For eg, the tallest public housing blocks to be built so far here involve the demolition of two 10-storey blocks and replacing them with seven 50-storeyed ones.

Do these physical limitations translate into limited opportunities for Hong Kong? Not really. The same for Singapore. As far as economics is concerned, today's knowledge-based economies place far less emphasise on physical sizes. You dont store physical money in the safe anymore. They are all stored in banks electronically.

Limitations in expanding sideways simply provides more opportunities for growing vertically, including above ground and below it, and calls for more creative use of land then what you see everywhere else where land availability is not an issue. To give up just because there is perceived to be unavailable land would have signalled the demise of this island since the year 2000 when the "ultimate population" size of 4 million was surpassed.

We are still reclaiming more land and havent reached Hong Kong levels of density yet.

Our historical architecture beats Singapores rather dull colonial buildings, thanks to the British Empire, we have neo-gothic marvels such as the Queen Victoria Building, St Mary's Cathedral, Government House, GPO Centre, Town Hall, Australian Museum, Sydney University, St Patricks College etc etc


I dont know how you define dull, however I will hardly call a unique bygone style of British colonial architecture dull. Singapore was a Crown Colony, and was the administrative and commercial HQ of the empire East of India.

Fullerton Hotel
Former post office turned hotel
http://pwp.maxis.net.my/szehoong/pix/spore/The%20Fullerton/DSCN0000sm.JPG
http://pwp.maxis.net.my/szehoong/pix/spore/The%20Fullerton/DSCN0012sm.JPG
http://pwp.maxis.net.my/szehoong/pix/spore/The%20Fullerton/DSCN0003sm.JPG
http://pwp.maxis.net.my/szehoong/pix/spore/The%20Fullerton/DSCN0015sm.JPG
http://pwp.maxis.net.my/szehoong/pix/spore/The%20Fullerton/DSCN0013sm.JPG
http://pwp.maxis.net.my/szehoong/pix/spore/The%20Fullerton/DSCN0017sm.JPG
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/504/103dscn0964.jpg
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/504/103dscn0965.jpg

Raffles Hotel

http://photo.starblvd.net/Raffles/4-4-1-1082607207?m=1&pg=3&ro=3&co=0

The Courtyard
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/504/103rafcourt2.jpg
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/504/103rafcourt.jpg

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/504/103rafinterior.jpg
http://photo.starblvd.net/Raffles/4-4-2-1082607985?m=1&pg=3&ro=3&co=1

Supreme Court and City Hall
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/photopost/data/500/103supreme.jpg

St Andrews Cathedral
The largest church here
http://photo.starblvd.net/Raffles/4-2-2-1081585234?m=1&pg=3&ro=1&co=1
http://photo.starblvd.net/Raffles/4-2-3-1081585330?m=1&pg=3&ro=1&co=2
http://photo.starblvd.net/Raffles/4-2-4-1081585431?m=1&pg=3&ro=1&co=3
http://photo.starblvd.net/Raffles/4-2-5-1081585495?m=1&pg=3&ro=1&co=4

Convent of the Holy Infant Jesus
Former Catholic church and convent

http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001293-8346-3102-0967/img0113.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001293-8346-3102-0967/img0101.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001293-8346-3102-0967/img0100.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001293-8346-3102-0967/img0087.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001293-8346-3102-0967/img0090.jpg

Hum, nice to know with my vote the dispute went 46 X 45 to Sydney.

Well, Singapore is a hard to beat rival. If it wins again, after defeating London, then the only city with chances to win is NYC.

To make the choice easier I think it's necessary to have figures on both cities, such as number of highrises above 100m, total area in km^2 of the citites, year of foundation, number of bridges, tallest buildings, average temperatures year by year, population sizes, etc.

The way the disputes are being presented, there is little sensible way to decide, we need more reasoning methods to decide in a less biased fashion.

Hum, nice to know with my vote the dispute went 46 X 45 to Sydney.

Well, Singapore is a hard to beat rival. If it wins again, after defeating London, then the only city with chances to win is NYC.

To make the choice easier I think it's necessary to have figures on both cities, such as number of highrises above 100m, total area in km^2 of the citites, year of foundation, number of bridges, tallest buildings, average temperatures year by year, population sizes, etc.

The way the disputes are being presented, there is little sensible way to decide, we need more reasoning methods to decide in a less biased fashion.
Fair enough, although in actual fact, much of the "data" you requested are already sprinkled all over in this thread.

btw, if you really stand by what you just said, then why vote before all the data is presented? :D Haha just joking. :)

Huaiwei:

I found your post about population growths and land use for Singapore very interesting. What do you think is the ideal population for Singapore? In Australia every man and his dog seems to have an idea of Australia's ideal population. The Greenies try to say 12 million or so. The pro-developers try to say over 100 million. Personally I would like to see 50-60 million in Australia. Though Australia is a very big place, I like how it has the wide open spaces. If I lived in Singapore, I would be concerned that all the untouched parts of a very limited area are been eaten up by an expanding city. I don't think Singapore has the same luxury as Sydney when it comes to playing around with population targets. Ok, it's not as densely populated as HK but what is the ideal desnity bearing in mind the 'green' areas that should be set aside. In other words, what is Singapore's ideal population? The Premier of NSW is trying to say that Sydney is big enough. Personally I think it is. Brisbane and Perth are the fast growers % wise and that's a good thing but with Singapore you can't shift trends for population growth to other cities so you guys need to get it right. Singapore seems just perfect the way it is in terms of population.

@jose

how could the number of bridges affect one's decision? umm also i think the architectural quality of a building is more important than it's height. but generally agree with the rest.

@parraman

actually changi handled 9.43 million passengers in the first 4 months. where did you get your figures from?

CLOUDscraper ,you are so ignorant ,man.Did you see my post one many of the historic heritage buildings here?

And the Lau Pa Sat is the biggest of its kind around.;)
I suggest that you let every pic load first before commenting.

Sydney does NOT have any diversity.Almost all of them are Western styled buildings.

Here ,we have Eastern styles (like House Of Tan Yeok Nee ,SCCCI Building ,S'pore Marriot Hotel) and of course the Western styles.

BUT ,we also have eclectic styles.A blend of East and West ,like our shophouses.
Most shophouses here are in the Singapore Eclectic style ,UNIQUE only to Singapore ,and perhaps M'sia.

They are a combination of Victorian ,Chinese ,Malay ,Classical ,Neo-Classical ,Modern ,Indian ,Edwardian ,Art Deco ,Art Nouveau and Renaissance styles.Now THAT'S diversity.It also showcases Singapore's various races' and religions' styles ,all blended together.You do not get to see those anywhere else.Uniquely Singapore.;):D

They were built around 1860 - 1940s ,where they stopped building ornate shophouses ,instead Art Deco shophouses begun to rise.In the 1960s ,Modern shophouses were built.Modern shophouses can be found on the outskirts of older towns and housing estates ,whereas the ornate ones can be found at the older areas.

It represent's Singapore's culture and heritage.

Singapore was also a British colony ,and somemore ,Crown Colony.

yeah i like lau pa sat.... there is a good kebab shop in there :P...

i like the lup sup bar aswell hehehe :drunk: :runaway: :cheers:

yeah i like lau pa sat.... there is a good kebab shop in there :P...

i like the lup sup bar aswell hehehe :drunk: :runaway: :cheers:
I think you are yet another person (usually westerners) who seem to have this big fetish or craving for kebab....hahaha! :D But you arent a caucasian are you? You came from Guangzhou or something, right?

haha i am westerner...but i have lived in china and also in singapore... i have many friends in singapore :D... so i know alot about the place....

Uniquely Singapore:


Please note that some of these pictures were taken decades ago ,and do not represent the buildings' current look.
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980002911-8262-3202-1091/img0119.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980005076-8073-3222-4823/img0031.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980002914-8262-3202-1101/img0002.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001350-8324-3302-3084/img0099.jpg
An ezcellent example of an eclectic style.
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001350-8324-3302-3084/img0111.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001350-8324-3302-3084/img0115.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001350-8324-3302-3084/img0120.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001351-8324-3302-3085/img0006.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001352-8324-3302-3086/img0026.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980002918-8262-3202-1097/img0118.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980007383-8105-3181-0497/img0095.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001293-8346-3102-0967/img0011.jpg

CLOUDscraper ,you are so ignorant ,man.Did you see my post one many of the historic heritage buildings here?

Sydney does NOT have any diversity. Almost all of them are Western styled buildings.



You are blinded by your patriotism... that is a major generalisation and one that is completely ludicrous. To suggest Sydney has been untouched by varying styles and cultural differences in architecture is complete hypocricy.

Do you have any wattle and daub huts built over there? I stongly doubt it. All you do is refute comments with "Sydney has no diversity"... I strongly suggest that Sydney has far more diversity. Not only do we have input from the western world which spans many parts of Europe but our archiecture is also refective of asian input, middle eastern and our very own input... mush of it due to differing materials not even available anywhere else in this world. You cant get more diverse than that! Singapore surely has some lovely colonial architecture and some very fine asian showpieces but are you valuing an abundance of South East asian design and influence over the various western influences that can be seen in Australia? It sounds almost asiancentric to be. Just as an example, why is a californian bungalow any less artistically valuable than any particular style of your housing... why is it ok for you to make these assertions based on a lack of information. To the south of Sydney exists the largest Buddist Temple in the southern hemisphere
http://www.myloongvacation.com/Oz/Wollongong/NanTinTemple01.jpg If I was you I'd do a little more research before shooting your mouth off again.

http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001293-8346-3102-0967/img0018.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001293-8346-3102-0967/img0019.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001293-8346-3102-0967/img0027.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001293-8346-3102-0967/img0033.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001293-8346-3102-0967/img0039.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980002912-8262-3202-1088/img0024.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001293-8346-3102-0967/img0014.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980005658-8073-3222-4394/img0061.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980006569-8105-3181-0777/img0038.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980002910-8262-3202-1120/img0086.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980002911-8262-3202-1091/img0104.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980006547-8105-3181-0685/img0022.jpg

Looks like you're blinded by your patriotism ,too.Who said that Sgp only has Neo-Classical buildings?
Also ,go here:http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78706

Both of you ,pls check out posts by me ,Raff ,Huai and Heir.
And ,we also have our own 'input' ,Peranakan Style into architecture here.We also have Arabic styles ,but only rare.

More shophouses:
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980006540-8105-3181-0678/img0009.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980006531-8105-3181-0382/img0090.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980006549-8105-3181-0672/img0042.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980002912-8262-3202-1088/img0023.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980002915-8262-3202-1100/img0065.jpg
Art Deco shophouse
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980005841-8106-3181-7823/img0103.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980007379-8105-3181-0351/img0070.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980007380-8105-3181-0349/img0037.jpg

What patriotism, I have never once said anything about Singapore's neoclassical buildings, nor any other style. I complimented Singapore on many of its fine old buildings and you have taken offence. I merely stated that you would be better to think before you post and that Sydney is home to many fine styles of architecture not all of which are based on western culture. Can you read? Comprehende?

Okay..

I also never said that Sdn has only Western styles.I saind 'most'.;)

I'm not arguing with you ,but here we have the largest Buddhist temple in SEA.It's area is larger than that of Boroburdu.It is a huge complex of buildings ,which includes numerous prayer halls ,2 crematoriums ,2 columbariums ,a Buddhist library ,admin offices ,a monastery ,and 3 pagodas (including the tallest religious structure here).

redstone you are being blinded by ure patriotism aswell.. :D

do you have any pics of zouk or mhd sultan road... i love that place :D

The fact is, both Sydney and Singapore have various styles of Architecture, western, oriental, middle eastern, etc, but the fact is, Singapore has a more balanced ratio between the styles.

This is due to the fact that Singapore was(and maybe still is?) a more cosmopolitan in a more historical way. Singapore was inhabited by Malays, and soon the chinese and Indians came in when Singapore was a booming city. The Europeans added to the diversity.

Sydney, I guess, is cosmipolitan after it became more popular than Melbourne not too long ago(50 years?) and attracted people to go there. So architecture of different cultures in Sydney is mostly recently built to accomodate the rising population of other races.

How do I support this?
Easy, If it is so diverse, I would have detected even the slightest hint of diverse architecture from the pictures that any Aussie has posted.

Avatar,
Singapore, has more Western architecture than Sydney has Eastern.
So, I think you cannot say that.

Try this simple test:
Got to Google imgae search and type:
Sydney buildings
then...
Singapore buildings

see the thumbnails and tell me which is more diverse.

I tried "sydney buildings"
and even up to the 15th page, I still did not see even one chinese temple nor arabic building. All were western buildings and the opera house.

For "singapore buildings"
I got a few pictures of chinese temples, western buildings, mosques, churches and of course, the Esplanade. And that was until the 3rd page only.

Think I'm bias? Try it yourself.

do you have any pics of zouk or mhd sultan road... i love that place :D

I couldnt find Zouk pics online but you can view their gallery here
www.zoukclub.com.sg

Mohammed Sultan Road

http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/mohamed_sultan_rd/small/30th_april_01.jpg

http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/mohamed_sultan_rd/small/30th_april_02.jpg

http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/mohamed_sultan_rd/small/30th_april_03.jpg

http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/mohamed_sultan_rd/small/30th_april_04.jpg

http://www.the-inncrowd.com/imagesrobertsonquay/images/01MSultan_jpg.gif

http://www.the-inncrowd.com/imagesrobertsonquay/images/02MSultan_jpg.gif

Club Street, a nightspot near Chinatown

Aphrodisiac bar at Club Street
http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/club_street/small/23rd_july_01.jpg

Queuing up for drinks at the bar counter
http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/club_street/small/23rd_july_02.jpg

Dancing the night away
http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/club_street/small/23rd_july_03.jpg

Bar SaVanh boasts of cocktails and fingerfoods
http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/club_street/small/23rd_july_04.jpg

CHIJMes

http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/chijmes/small/9th_july_01.jpg
http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/chijmes/small/16th_may_01.jpg
http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/chijmes/small/16th_may_02.jpg
http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/chijmes/small/9th_july_02.jpg
http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/chijmes/small/9th_july_03.jpg

http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/chijmes/small/9th_july_04.jpg
http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/chijmes/small/9th_july_05.jpg
http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/chijmes/small/9th_july_06.jpg
http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/chijmes/small/23rd_july_01.jpg
http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/chijmes/small/23rd_july_02.jpg
http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/chijmes/small/23rd_july_03.jpg
http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/chijmes/small/23rd_july_04.jpg

Boat Quay

http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/boat_quay/small/3rd_may_01.jpg

http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/boat_quay/small/3rd_may_02.jpg

http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/boat_quay/small/31st_may_03.jpg

http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/boat_quay/small/31st_may_29.jpg

http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/boat_quay/small/31st_may_27.jpg

http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/boat_quay/small/31st_may_06.jpg

http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/boat_quay/small/31st_may_19.jpg

http://www.singaporecanlah.com/singapore_today/boat_quay/small/31st_may_30.jpg

http://www.the-inncrowd.com/imagesclarkeboatquay/images/14BoatQuay_JPG.jpg

http://www.jellesen.dk/webcrea/places/sing/75x.jpg

This is a review about this place from Swiss Financial Gloom & Doom guru Marc Faber:

Asia's best discotheque

22-Dec-01, Marc Faber

On my way to Switzerland - after a brief stop over in Bangkok, where Nana Plaza is still one of the best entertainment venues (go to Hollywood One on the second floor for an excellent show with some spice) - I spent a few days in Singapore where two of my oldest friends from Hong Kong who now live in Singapore own Zouk (official website), in my opinion, Asia's best disco.

I have been traveling to Singapore for the last 27 years and I have to say that its nightlife has always impressed me - contrary to the conventional wisdom. Singapore always had a number of discos, bars, high-class nightclubs, escort services, which provided locals and visitors with a wide variety of choices. Moreover, because of Singapore's relatively strict application and enforcement of laws, it is perfectly safe to go out in Singapore. (In general, I find Asian nightlife very safe, but some prudence is in order in the Philippines, Indonesia and Thailand.) Now, for a while Singapore's entertainment industry lagged somewhat behind other places in Asia, but in recent years it seems to me that the Singapore Government has become more lenient and tolerant toward how leisure time is spent and, actually encourages the development of Singapore as a regional cultural and entertainment hub. A new impressive Opera House and Theatre is under construction, art exhibitions and performances are actively promoted and the nightlife is flourishing.

The disco Zouk - located in an alley off Havelock Road - was opened about - I guess 12 years ago - by my friend Lincoln Cheng, with whom I used to go boating and hunting at night in Hong Kong in the 1970s. Lincoln is a high tech buff and coming from a very prominent Hong Kong family he also had, right from the start, the necessary financial means to invest in all the latest audio equipment. In other words, unlike other discos, which are usually financially on shaky grounds, he had the money to overcome the downs of the disco business, which occur from time to time and built what I consider a hugely successful entertainment business.

At present Zouk, is licensed for a nightly capacity of 3,500 people who sit outside or inside at either Zouk or Velvet - the latter catering for the more affluent and mature patrons. A disco of this size would be impossible in Hong Kong because of the disruptions created by the triads who would want to seize "part of the action". In Singapore, however, where internal security is by far the best in Asia this is not a problem. Thus, if you are passing through Singapore I recommend you to enjoy its thriving nightlife. Start at Brix in the basement of the Hyatt Hotel around 10.30 pm, move on to Orchard Tower, where you will find on each of its floor a collection of swinging girls - to put it mildly -coming from all over Asia and then move on to Zouk or Velvet (in the same complex) shortly before 1 am. I just like to mention that Singapore is home some of Asia's best Hotels, such as Raffles, Shangrila, Westin, and the recently opened Fullerton, which is a piece of art having been converted from the old Singapore Post office building into a hotel by my friend Robert Ng who owns Hong Kong listed property developer Sino Land.

erm, thanks... i was only joking anyways hehe

Zouk has been around for a long time. Other clubs worth checking out are Centro, Embassy and China Black;)

yeah i have been there.. :p

Some of Singapore's other temples:

http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980007380-8105-3181-0349/img0092.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001281-8346-3102-0437/img0088.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001281-8346-3102-0437/img0094.jpg
Hong San See ,a century-old temple located at the top of a small hill.

http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001281-8346-3102-0437/img0042a.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19990001281-8346-3102-0437/img0021.jpg
Yue Hai Ching Temple ,built in 1895 stands proud between towering skyscrapers.

http://www.the-inncrowd.com/imageslotusmountain/images/IMG_1355_jpg.jpg
http://www.the-inncrowd.com/imageslotusmountain/images/IMG_1364_jpg.jpg
Lian Shan Shuang Lin Shi ,the biggest Buddhist temple and the biggest pre-war Chinese temple was built in 1902 and had been extended several times ,the last being in the 1910s.

http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980005534-8120-3181-1599/img0092.jpg
http://www.ura.gov.sg/dgp_reports/sinriver/images/pp-spc03.gif
Po Chiak Keng ,built 1876.

http://www.the-inncrowd.com/imageslotusmountain/images/IMG_1346_jpg.jpg
Cheng Huang Temple ,date unknown.

http://www.rgs.edu.sg/events/Chinatown/places/hocktemp.jpg
http://www.scholars.nus.edu.sg/landow/post/singapore/arts/architecture/thk/1.jpg
And of course ,Thian Hock Keng, built 1839.It is a well-known fact that the entire temple complex was built without the use of a single nail despite of the fact that is mainly made of wood.

The fact is, both Sydney and Singapore have various styles of Architecture, western, oriental, middle eastern, etc, but the fact is, Singapore has a more balanced ratio between the styles.

yeah point taken BUT western is not just one large agglomeration of style and culture!

Oh please ;), since when has google been a measure of anything's self worth? Australians are just more lazy with travelling the city and taking pictures to post on the interent.

For me driving or travelling all over the city to different suburbs to photograph alternative styles of architecture is time consuming and a little boring. Singapore is far more compact and easier to navigate for this type of thing. I don't doubt why that account for greater number of pictures.

You all seem hell bent on justifying glorious asian, indian and middle eastern architecture to the nth degree. Why are the Spanish or tuscan mansions on sydney harbour unimportant to you all? Why too do you all believe all western culture and style to be the same. None here have suggested that all asian architecture is the same... so why is all western design labelled as one. It too is eclectic, varied and justifiably different between places of origin. We have Californian bungalows in the suburbs, Victorian terraces in the city, Large Australian style homesteads complete with verandahs in the outer west? The victorian mansions of Strathfield http://www.strathfieldhistory.org.au/Quisiana%20001.jpg

We might not have the volume of asian designed buildings but what we do have is a vast array of western and european even american styles of building and housing which Singapore cannot claim similarly. We also have our own styles and vernaculars which Sydney is famous for... red roofed houses etc etc. These are all no less impressive and no less important to the world of architecture to the various asian styles so prevalent in Singapore. I am a little annoyed to think that most of you lump western under one large umbrella, this is a trifle unfair.

We also have varied styles from all over the world...
http://murugan.org/temples/sydney-temple.jpg
http://www.abqbahai.org/Bahai%20temples/Australia.jpg
no pic but Gurdwara Sahib Parklea SIKH CENTRE is the largest temple of its kind in the southern hemisphere also.

Anyway guys fight it out amongst yourselves I aint buying into it anymore... I am liable to get a lil too agressive and cause a rukus ;)

actually most of the pics are by tourists or from news websites i think... you also need to take into account that there are more than 4 times as many australians as singaporeans..

beautiful white domed building by the way

i dont know what red roofed houses are supposed to be, but singapore has *too many* red roofed houses :P

yeah point taken BUT western is not just one large agglomeration of style and culture!
But neither is Asian styles, and you know it. The fact is architectural circles have for far too long been western-biased, for pretty obvious reasons. For example, just looking at Emporis' site listing architectural styles for skyscrapers have the following:

Beaux-arts
Neo-classical
Neo-gothic
Renaissance Revival
Romanesque
Spanish Revival
Art Deco/Art Moderne
Art Nouveau
Chicago School
Wedding Cake
Brutalist
Early Modernism
Futurism
International Style
Modernism
Postmodernism
Structural Expressionism

We know that "skyscrapers" basically become recognised as such in the west. It leaves us wondering what ever happened to Pagodas, for example? When modern-day skyscrapers like the Jin Mao Tower and the Taipei 101 borrow design elements from Asiatic ideas, which category do they fall in from the above listing?

Same thing with architectural creations for non-skyscrapers. Why is it, that buildings in the East seem to be loosely classified as "Chinese," "Arabic," or "Islamic," "buddhist," when these actually encompass some of the longest histories of architectural evolution?

So when you guys talk about a Buddhist temple in Sydney, or a Church in Singapore, is that supposed to reflect architectural diversity in itself? I think not. Have you seen, for example, Mosques with sleek metal lines, and Churches with titanium rooftops, which depart greatly from the "norm" of architecture for such structures? I know of each of these in Singapore, and they are the ones which make me feel that architectural diversity and evolution is truly in force here. Does it matter if we have the largest church in the world here which does nothing but portrays a corbon copy of every other church in the world?

I do not know if Sydney have any forms of architecture which shows evolution in that sense. Do show us more photos of those if they exist.
Oh please ;), since when has google been a measure of anything's self worth? Australians are just more lazy with travelling the city and taking pictures to post on the interent.

For me driving or travelling all over the city to different suburbs to photograph alternative styles of architecture is time consuming and a little boring. Singapore is far more compact and easier to navigate for this type of thing. I don't doubt why that account for greater number of pictures.
I think you would agree that your own post here sounds quite weak in terms of debating value. Australian cities are indeed far more hegemonic then you seem to be willing to admit, and it menifests itself not only in the kind of images people can easily find on the net, but in mental perceptions of places too. Ask yourself what is Singaporean architecture, and are you able to pinpoint an exact image of what is truly representative of this city? You will be hard-pressed, when compared to a similar question asking what architecture is all about in Sydney. Asiatic styles obviously do not figure highly in people's mental images of Sydney, but western architectural gems often take centre-stage here in Singapore, in a midst of architecture which are much more Asiatic as they should be.
You all seem hell bent on justifying glorious asian, indian and middle eastern architecture to the nth degree. Why are the Spanish or tuscan mansions on sydney harbour unimportant to you all? Why too do you all believe all western culture and style to be the same. None here have suggested that all asian architecture is the same... so why is all western design labelled as one. It too is eclectic, varied and justifiably different between places of origin. We have Californian bungalows in the suburbs, Victorian terraces in the city, Large Australian style homesteads complete with verandahs in the outer west? The victorian mansions of Strathfield.

We might not have the volume of asian designed buildings but what we do have is a vast array of western and european even american styles of building and housing which Singapore cannot claim similarly. We also have our own styles and vernaculars which Sydney is famous for... red roofed houses etc etc. These are all no less impressive and no less important to the world of architecture to the various asian styles so prevalent in Singapore. I am a little annoyed to think that most of you lump western under one large umbrella, this is a trifle unfair.
I would think you got a backlash of people lumping western styles for you, because quite alot of you lump Asian styles together in the same way too. You find it easy differentiating architecture from western origins, but are you able to do it for Asian ones? Are any one style less significant to you then the other?

You claim that Singapore cannot have the diversity of western styles, but are you aware, that the vast majority of low-rise structures here built especially in the post-war period are actually either western-influenced or modernist in nature, rather then asiatic? They build entire neighbourhoods based on Mediterranean styles, such as the one in Keppel Harbour. We have American-styled bungalows and terraced housing in Woodgrove Estate. Tudor and Gothic-styled mansions are amongst the hot favourites for the well-heeled in swanky Bukit Timah, looking like mini castles. Even Australian styles exist in, not surprisingly, the vicinity of the old Australian International School campus.

But more importantly, Asian styles DO continue to make an impact here. Peranakan styles, which fuse Malay and Chinese architectural elements, are unique to this part of the world. There is such a thing as a "Singapore House," a style which has evolved ever since the Europeans landed on our shores in 1819. They involve the fusion of European living demands on the tropical landscape, and continue to evolve today. Another example of this, albeit the style has basically stopped evolving for decades, is what is called the "Black and White Bungalows:"

http://beautifulhomes.msn.com.sg/images/nov/cay_nov1b.jpg

http://beautifulhomes.msn.com.sg/images/nov/cay_nov2b.jpg

These houses were mainly built for British Officers in the 1930s, and are often considered the best type of western-inspired housing which suits tropical climates almost perfectly, without the use of electricity and other modern-day aids. And you dont exactly find them anywhere else in the world. So far, just 351 of these houses have been restored by the government, and are rented out for residential living.

Thats a small lesson on architure in Singapore. The island may be freaking small, but it dosent mean the flow of ideas is necesarily greatly impaired in forming solutions for the creation of space.

oooh yes the ultra modern looking mosque with islamic details.

i took some pics of the model of it at the ura gallery. here they are
http://img16.photobucket.com/albums/v47/sybarite/mosque/IMGP3840.jpg

http://img16.photobucket.com/albums/v47/sybarite/mosque/IMGP3841.jpg

http://img16.photobucket.com/albums/v47/sybarite/mosque/IMGP3842.jpg



and city harvest church - one of the world's few titanium clad buildings.

dayish view
http://www.chc.org.sg/version3/images/building_page/july03/030701_02.jpg


night view
http://www.chc.org.sg/version3/images/building_page/dec02/05.jpg


look at the number of buses they charter for services!!!! there are even more on the road perpendicular to this.
http://www.chc.org.sg/version3/images/building_page/nov02/03.jpg



unfortunately they've got a slutty pastor-turned-bad actress/singer. my friend would kill me for saying that.

Excellent, heirloom!! You took photos of the exact same structures I had in mind when I wrote my post!!

:banana:

ha the city harvest pics are from it's website

I tried "sydney buildings"
and even up to the 15th page, I still did not see even one chinese temple nor arabic building. All were western buildings and the opera house.



Some images of Sydney's major mosques.

Auburn Gallipoli Mosque

http://alfatihoun.edaama.org/Fichiers/Islamic%20art/Mosqueworld/web/images/Auburn%20Mosque.jpg

http://computingws1.gold.ac.uk/ma001sn/auburn_turkish_islamic_centre_australia.png

Lakemba Mosque - Main gathering point for Sydney's Islamic community during special times eg Ramadan

http://www.icnsw.org.au/images/lakemba.jpg

http://www.icnsw.org.au/images/lakemba2.jpg

As for Buddhist temples, Wollongong, a city of 300 000 which is a 90 minute drive from Sydney is home to the southern hemisphere's biggest Buddhist temple - Nan Tien

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~nantien/images/nantien.jpg

http://www.acay.com.au/~silkroad/buddha/images/temple.jpg

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~mchugh/Images/Album_2_Misc/nan_tien_pagoda.JPG

http://www.chem.mq.edu.au/~apiggott/photos/wollongong/bigimages/1117.jpg

http://www.walkabout.com.au/smh/fairfax/graphics/images/CD1117.JPG

I'm suprised none of the Sydneysiders have highlighted one of the most critical points of Singapore: democracy + freedom. Nobody is mentioning Lee Kuan Yew & Sons and how one family runs the entire coutry, or how there is only one political party and how peeps like JBJ get locked up for speaking about freedom and equality! Singapore might have a high standard of living and some nice commie towers......but if you want to live a free life and not that of an inmate who is incarcerated for like - is Singapore really the place to be? Hell have any of our Singaporean forumerers here got a "tainted" record yet? Any of you know of anyone who is pushed to the bottom of the pile like trash ;)

Infact at current rates China will probably end up more democratic than Singapore: now that is a funny tale of two totalitarian states :yes:

Oh heirloom - do you have a permit to speak your voice and Redstone I'm suprised you haven't jumped on Sydney considering it as a free city has protests for people speaking their mind :yes:

Of course its all the truth and will we see anyone here deny the existence of the PAP - I wait and see :yes:

Sydney as seen through the eyes of a Sydneysider

All photo's are small as to minimise download time

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid105/p340543f90d6cd3634220c3c9a519c7c6/f970c387.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid108/p036577fca9a58224c7d062575a76635a/f94c8b5d.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid114/p40138ad9387680682b03494dd2538015/f8d5bbe1.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid108/p717d20204bca018a99a87a8d73f25d2d/f94c8843.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid112/pdc3e6b66404e62c1e4a5d513a5679219/f8fe500d.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid114/p871c7f303b102fc8d11c1061d1cf0746/f8d5bf7f.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid100/p8033d6370d84a167981f5186533ed455/f9e2dfd0.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid100/pcfe57f09b14a6b2fbf0fa6f13e0ae955/f9e2dcfe.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid101/pa5d544e0a416e39b6f15e16efa23eb81/f9de0074.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid101/p4ed5c42878e7d25e23ce3634dbc06620/f9de00b3.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid101/p9eed44e7149281965262b38f6bd5235e/f9ddf0d0.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid69/p7c91020fd8633d0e92d43ea0348eed65/fba57162.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid102/p4f1f629e8922cce71bd6b56f5341a632/f9c912ee.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid96/pceec8f9873761eb4d5c5427befecd9de/fa1fd34a.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid96/p39d668881c17b8e3beac64d813ec494e/fa1fd616.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid111/p6aecb5d4b75930d7aabe622df530796a/f910a5f0.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid107/pc75769dce0e93e4473253d4436bff7ca/f9661fa1.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid105/p39e7373a0057c35fa327796c2a350dec/f970c087.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid105/pd7ff3fce3a040a39316959ab985b1d62/f98119c9.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid65/p921f524d2ca451ee29c84bb942e3d48d/fbea5c49.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid100/pa507a43472d4dec9ab63e6fb93915523/f9e2d584.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid100/pd4cf27452a4004dc292f88671f4369e5/f9e2cf5a.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid100/pa4d9c8f9ebb2e9ea2803752545182e1e/f9e2d675.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid105/pc10aef6d68e29508c7e1cb51d1734490/f970beb4.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid46/p83a60224068060db9653a7637ef4e0cc/fcce3945.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid60/p75a23c4972b8622a4eb44cd13bb84df9/fc530bb0.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid88/pc2f5943df4dc8e4a13f58ad4178399c1/fa90a00c.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid88/p1a7fbc01d67db2452f3f2ff1c1338fab/fa909fd6.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid99/p67f81edbed56ac7153f75085263f4797/f9eee124.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid103/pe11b6117e84ad0cc2d25e7c3640376b2/f9a52371.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid103/pc0d699fa11b6779f1efa6e8603a3797f/f9b1c240.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid105/pab5ee4aa1aa92ba4f584ca031f3a4056/f970bdf1.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid108/p4748d145b6da7dea76585a5f3635e304/f94c869f.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid100/pbbe81b6ce22e58fd38131d296e12dcfb/f9e2da6d.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid90/p6298a79accf983635102a823e7fec8bf/fa723d44.jpg

I'm suprised none of the Sydneysiders have highlighted one of the most critical points of Singapore: democracy + freedom. Nobody is mentioning Lee Kuan Yew & Sons and how one family runs the entire coutry, or how there is only one political party and how peeps like JBJ get locked up for speaking about freedom and equality! Singapore might have a high standard of living and some nice commie towers......but if you want to live a free life and not that of an inmate who is incarcerated for like - is Singapore really the place to be? Hell have any of our Singaporean forumerers here got a "tainted" record yet? Any of you know of anyone who is pushed to the bottom of the pile like trash ;)

Infact at current rates China will probably end up more democratic than Singapore: now that is a funny tale of two totalitarian states :yes:

Oh heirloom - do you have a permit to speak your voice and Redstone I'm suprised you haven't jumped on Sydney considering it as a free city has protests for people speaking their mind :yes:

Of course its all the truth and will we see anyone here deny the existence of the PAP - I wait and see :yes:
You know something? I once tot you have at least some decent understanding of this place since you mention endlessly about how you were actually born here. Your post, however, obviously demonstrates the kind of ill-feelings you have against the Singaporean establishment, and your attempt to painting a negative picture of everything Singaporean through some sort of menifestation of politics in every aspect of what Singapore is.

No one here is going to argue against the fact that the PAP exists. No one is going to insist that parliament is dominated by one party. No one will pretend to imagine that the government does not poke their fingers in far more aspects of our lives then they should, and so on.

But that said, does it all translate into the kind of stiffling social and physical environ you seem to think prevails here, in totality and uniformity throughout Singaporean society? Your views run smack of pure immaturity in your supposed inablity in unravelling stereotypes and the power of pursuation in international media, not just from outside Singapore, but from within it. You sound exceptionally lazy in accepting what could possibly be perceptions as facts at face value, with no clue of your attempts to think about the causes and effects with your own analytical abilities, and choosing instead, to make assumptions based on popular opinions.

I am more then happy to engage in discussions over the political and social aspects of Singaporean life. I do reserve my own rights in criticising my government or any aspect of my society, but as a "typical Singaporean" is expected to do, I make every attempt to criticise with good reason. It is sad, therefore, to see some individuals who choose to haul endless criticisms, but with nothing of substaintial value to back up their points, and these criticisms may come from both the international audience, or more importantly, from within this country. It is in my opinion, that if "criticisms" continue to be put forth in such a manner, they will do little in contributing to an opening up of political and social arena here towards the direction of being more willing to listen and respond constructively to alternative views.

If Singapore is as totalitarian to you as you claim it to be, then have you ever not asked yourself why you have the freedom to leave the island in the first place, without needing to be subjected to all the rules of this land ever again?

I admit I am throughly disappointed in your post, and in you as a forumer and individual.

yes u can criticise on this forum but could you go on the news there 'On a mediacorp owned TV channel' or write an article in The Straits Times criticising the government.
I am not saying lack of freedom is a bad thing, (sometimes in Australia a governments vision for the future is limited to the next election.) However what I am saying is that you cant deny that Singapore does not have a free press and there is no political freedom. Having said that it has seemed to have worked well for Singapore and if the PAP hadnt been in existance I am sure Singapore would not be the place it is today... it may be better or it may be worse aswell..

@heirloom, info on airport figures from the Airports Council International (http://www.airports.org/) website.

My point about Sydney having more potential for the future is that it isn't yet built up to the current density of Singapore, let alone HK, and so can eventually, on the land available (not considering other factors), fit in many more people than Singapore ever could.

@heirloom, info on airport figures from the Airports Council International (http://www.airports.org/) website.



I'm sure that's not up-to-date......Here's the news article stating the latest figure......


Budget terminal not crucial for low-cost carriers: Yeo

By Ca-Mie De Souza, Channel NewsAsia

SINGAPORE: Transport Minister Yeo Cheow Tong says having a dedicated budget carrier terminal makes little difference to low-cost airlines operating in Singapore.

He has said Singapore would build one if there is demand, but so far Tiger Airways is the only budget carrier to have expressed interest in such a dedicated terminal.

On Sunday, Mr Yeo said that once the low-cost carriers (LCCs) confirm their request, the government can immediately build the low-cost carrier terminal.

Mr Yeo said: "I don't think the presence or absence of a LCC terminal will make a significant difference to the LCCs operating here. Having a LCC terminal will help reduce a few dollars but it's not a make-or-break decision - which is why, I suppose, Tiger Airways is taking its time and which is also why the other airlines have expressed no such interest."

Turning to passenger traffic figures for the first four months of this year, Mr Yeo said if the healthy trend continues, this could be a record year for Singapore.

Up to April 2004, 9.43 million passengers went through Changi Airport.

The figure exceeded that for the same SARS-hit period last year as well as the first four months of 2002. - CNA

Copyright © 2004 MCN International Pte Ltd

Huaiwei quoted Avatar in saying:

Originally Posted by Avatar
yeah point taken BUT western is not just one large agglomeration of style and culture!

Huaiwei then responded by saying:

But neither is Asian styles, and you know it. The fact is architectural circles have for far too long been western-biased, for pretty obvious reasons. For example, just looking at Emporis' site listing architectural styles for skyscrapers have the following:

But in the post that Huaiwei quoted Avatar, Avatar also said: None here have suggested that all asian architecture is the same...

So yes, I think he knows it :)

What's with all this argument about architectural diversity?

Sydney simply CANNOT be as diverse as Singapore as the Sydney population is predominantly of Western origin, with only about 9% Asian, most of them only arriving into the country in the past thirty years. Sydney was also a convict settlement and never really became desirable as a city until the late 19th century. Which is why there aren't many decent buildings before the 1880s.

However, Singapore has a predominantly Asian population with a stong British influence and this dates back to the 19th century. Sydney never had a chance for anything like this. Australia even had the White Australia law which restricted Asian immigration up until the 1970s after an uproar over the amount of Chinese people who arrived during the gold rushes of the 1860s. I myself have relatives that migrated to New Zealand from China in the late 19th century.

Lets call it a draw... I am happy to say both cities offer a plethora of differing amenities and experiences but I still think they are difficult to compare with vastly different situations. :colgate:

Huaiwei quoted Avatar in saying:



Huaiwei then responded by saying:



But in the post that Huaiwei quoted Avatar, Avatar also said:

So yes, I think he knows it :)


haha :D....

Singapore has a website which anyone can voice out.;)
And ,we have a Speaker's Corner.Every govt body has an email address where you can send feedback to.So there's no need for riots and demostrations here.If they get violent ,it would endanger the safety of the citizens.I'm sure you would not like being caught in the middle of a riot ,do you?;)

There are several political parties in Singapore ,and for your info ,we choose PAP ,because it is better than the rest.Look where it got us.From a developing country with dense forests ,villages and farms to a developed country in a short span of 20 years ,with no natural resources that we can sell to make money.

Up to about 20 years ago ,we still have several villages and huge farmland.Now they are almost all gone.Whole towns rose in a short period of only a few years from what was once farmland and thick forests.Thousands of highrise public flats were built simultaneously.Now we have over 10 ,000 of them here.

perthguy78 ,do not be ignorant.You can vioce out on any TV channel.

Not all Asian architecture are the same!Please ,do not be so ignorant! :lol:
Arabic (Islamic) architecture is also Asian.Don't tell me that you can't distinguish Islamic from Chinese styles! :lol:

We also have Malay styles.
Also the unique Peranakan style ,unique to S-E-A!It is a blend of Malay and Chinese styles.

You think Chinese styles are all the same?Different periods, dynasties, and areas have their own unique styles.

Singapore never imposed any immigration restrictions until Independence ,so that's why we have a very diversed city.And what's more ,all the races and religions living in harmony.The last racial riot was in the late 1960s.After that ,none.

yes u can criticise on this forum but could you go on the news there 'On a mediacorp owned TV channel' or write an article in The Straits Times criticising the government.
The fact is I, and anyone one else including non-Singaporeans CAN! :) If you dont believe me, why dont you go to the Straits Times forum page every day, and see the kind of articles which appear there? Take a look at which kind of letters get published, and see everything for yourself.

Yes, the media is state-influenced. No doubt about that. But it is not a relationship akin to say, a government owning the papers, and using it as a means of having its voice projected to the masses, as happens in some other countries. What the Singapore government do, is to pour through, on a daily basis, every single media printed out there, in particular the heavyweight ones, as well as those which appear in Singapore. When it sees reason to disagree with the views stated in articles, it writes to the editor a letter to give its point of view.

I am sure you are aware of how some internatonal publications are banned from being put on sale here, and it has become a huge issue in the issue of censorship and free press in this society. That was, however, from one side of the equation in looking at things. As has happened a couple of times, a foreign media writes an article, the Singapore government writes a letter to the editors which points out the errors, and asks them to publish it. The editors refuse, and in response, that particular issue gets barred from being on sale here. Some publications which consistantly refuse to publish the Singapore Government's letters get their entire publication banned.

It seems like a totalitarian response to doing things. I suppose so. On the other hand, I wonder what people mean by "free press" when publications refuse to publish something which give alternative views of what they choose to say. Do they mean by being "free," as in being able to say whatever they want, without anyone being able to correct them? Whatever happened to the other aspect of "freedom of expression," which calls for allowing others to voice their opinions too?

If there is reason to explain the root of this stemming of freedom of expression here, it is mainly because of the kind of social fabric and situation Singapore was in during the period leading up to independence, and immediately after. The Singapore of the 1940s to 1960s is far from what we see today. It was an over-crowded and poor city, with wide disparities between the haves and have nots, and the streets chocked full with the alive and dead. Chinese traids divided according to dialect groups wagged open warfare against each other on the streets of Chinatown and beyond, with what was called the "police force" totally incapable of reining them in. It was said, that should the police move in to control a traid war, they will need a recruitment drive tomorrow.

If that was not bad enough, it was the racial and ethnic strife which tears the city apart in far more devastating consequences. Once the British element was gradually removed, distrust between ethnic groups worsened. A single article in a local paper, which suggested criticism of the Malays by a Chinese writer, was enough to spark a massive racial riot which left numerous fatal casualties.

In the now legendary Mariah courtesy Riots of 1950, a tussle was happening in the courts over the legal custody of a Dutch girl between her Dutch parents and her foster mother, a local Malay woman who was given custody by the parents themselves. As they battled it out in the courtroom, English and Malay language newspapers went into battle, depicting their own sides of the story with sensational photographs and articles. It led to strong anti-European and anti-Malay feelings amongst the two communities and beyond. Finally, on 11th December of that year...
the day that Che Aminah's appeal was to be heard, a large Muslim crowd gathered at the court house demanding that Maria should be taken out of the convent. A struggle broke out between the group and a Eurasian, H.L. Velge, a member of the Special Constabulary, who drew his revolver and fired three shots. Two Malays were wounded, one got hit in the head. Suddenly a chaos broke loose.

The riots swept swiftly to other parts of the island . At the end of it all, 18 people were dead, 173 injured and 84 cars destroyed including a police vehicle. A dispute between two families eventually developed wider social implications. The issue became a battle between two different cultures and religious interests. No one gave much thought to the happiness and future of the child.
Racial riots arent just a case of religious or ethnic tensions. When the communists try to spread their propaganda amongst the mainly Chinese populance at around the same period, the trust between the "trouble-causing" Chinese and other groups went into an abyss as well. Chinese media became the best tool for the communists, quite naturally.

The kind of history Singapore has before it finally managed to get its act together explains alot of why this society seems to be so authoritarian ever since the PAP swept into power by democratic means...the votes, and they continue to be voted in decade after decade. For Singaporeans tired with all the ethnic and religious strive for decades, it was their forceful methods in trying to forge a unified Singaporean identity and onwards to economic progress. Mindful of how the media has become such an efficient means of causing riots and societal divisions, Mr Lee's PAP enacted laws which restrict the media from discussing about those issues in "irresponsible" ways. It is against the law to degrade any ethnic or religious group in public without the "approval of the government", not unlike the laws enacted in Australia against Asian racism.

It is more disturbing, however, when it seems like they are also paying too much attention on media articles which lambast the government directly. Their most common response to that? They suggest, that media articles which rattle the government, which shake the people's trust in the them, will lead to the undoing of what Singapore is today. That the society they managed to knit together over the years will unravel once they are removed from the picture...

Things are not as simple as some of you want to believe it is, as you can see. It is not merely a case of power-mongers obsessed with taking control of anything and everything, although it might be true too? :D

Huaiwei quoted Avatar in saying:



Huaiwei then responded by saying:



But in the post that Huaiwei quoted Avatar, Avatar also said:

So yes, I think he knows it :)
If he knows it, then why does his responses all these while seem to suggest otherwise? ;)

http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980005770-8106-3181-7857/img0039.jpg
A Palladian masterpiece ,History Museum ,formerly a library & museum.Sorry ,no clear pictures of it.

http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980005112-8073-3222-5046/img0099.jpg
http://picas.nhb.gov.sg/data/tn_pcd/19980005884-8120-3181-2129/img0006.jpg
Singapore Art Museum ,formerly a school.It was converted into a muesum after the school moved out in the late 1980s.

Huaiwei:

I found your post about population growths and land use for Singapore very interesting. What do you think is the ideal population for Singapore? In Australia every man and his dog seems to have an idea of Australia's ideal population. The Greenies try to say 12 million or so. The pro-developers try to say over 100 million. Personally I would like to see 50-60 million in Australia. Though Australia is a very big place, I like how it has the wide open spaces. If I lived in Singapore, I would be concerned that all the untouched parts of a very limited area are been eaten up by an expanding city. I don't think Singapore has the same luxury as Sydney when it comes to playing around with population targets. Ok, it's not as densely populated as HK but what is the ideal desnity bearing in mind the 'green' areas that should be set aside. In other words, what is Singapore's ideal population? The Premier of NSW is trying to say that Sydney is big enough. Personally I think it is. Brisbane and Perth are the fast growers % wise and that's a good thing but with Singapore you can't shift trends for population growth to other cities so you guys need to get it right. Singapore seems just perfect the way it is in terms of population.
Singapore's ideal population? I suppose as far as the nature lovers are concerned, 1 million is already way too many! :D

But the thing is that in terms of economics, we are actually woefully under-populated, and looking at the speed of growth today, we are headed towards negative population growth soon unless something is done to reverse the trend.

Anyway, more people dosent always have to mean less greenery. Just build upwards, and include lots of sky gardens? And go underground, which is now seriously explored as a viable option for future land use here?

http://business-times.asia1.com.sg/mnt/media/image/launched/2004-05-07/070504rjgov.gif
Singapore ranks only second to Canada!

http://photo.starblvd.net/Raffles/4-4-5-1083355759?m=1&pg=3&ro=3&co=4
The 'Sail Condos'.

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Fusionpolis Phase 1

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Pinnacle@Duxton ,the ultimate public housing developement.
The Pinnacle@Duxton is HDB's first 50-storey integrated housing development. It is based on an award-winning design selected from international and local entries for the Duxton Plain International Architectural Design Competition. The development will have special features such as skybridges and sky gardens at the 26th and 50th storeys. Apartments will be provided with a varied combination of balconies, bay windows and planter boxes, to suit the preferences of flat buyers. The development comprising a total of seven residential blocks will be self-contained with shops, a food court, a child-care centre and an education centre.

It is located centrally along Cantonment Road and in close proximity to the Central Business District (CBD). It is also within walking distance to the Outram Park and Tanjong Pagar MRT Stations, which provide convenient connections to various parts of Singapore. There are also good public transport links and many commercial and recreational facilities close by.

didnt HKSkyline say that those figures werent accurate :D. hhaha

So what ARE the 'real' figures? :lol:

So what ARE the 'real' figures? :lol:
Stoney...I wont bother about using that for this debate. Its not like its easy for you to find figures for Sydney only, and make it comparable with that for Singapore?

Ironically huaiwei, my twin 3month old sisters were unable to leave Singapore (they were born in Singapore also). The customs officer would not allow them to leave the country on the sole reason that they had not left the country after being born. It was some weird loophole and well finally the supervisor (after 3 hours waiting and missing our flight) waved us through :yes:

No joke there and well no need to go all crazy regarding the truth now. I'm also dissapointed in your approach to my factual post. No way in hell is it some freedom like paradise. Infact, Singapore has a lot in common with Dubai in regards to the al Maktoum family and the Lee family. Its a backward system of having one family ruling an entire society. Yes the PAP made great strides for the Singapore economy. I am in no way denying Singapore this - for gods sake man I was born in Singapore and I have friends in the country. I have also been back there on several occasions either to visit friends or to go through the fine airport that is Changi....but times have to change. They are the same problems facing Dubai where the foreign presence becomes more known and residents are seeking democratic rights.

I find it laughable that you thus decide to "attack" me and the international media when the state has such a stronghold over all the citizens of Singapore.

You might like the fact that in 1999 Singapore had the highest per capita executions of any nation on the planet. As you can tell, I may have only spent some 17% of my life in Singapore, but I'll be damned if you can try and turn me into some sort of leper who should know all the ins and outs of a foreign country. I bet you would be hard pushed to get a rough summary of the entire British political system. Anyone would (even me after studying Government & Politics for several years!)!!!!
http://www.economist.com/images/19990403/cas401.gif

You might also know about a certain thing called the Internal Security Act where people are detained without trial for any reason (at least in Britain if your a suspected terrorist you get detained and rightly so and even then thats only a recent thing cause of 9/11).

I bet you also knew about this famous quote during the International Press Institute assembly of 1971 by the Singapore PM: “Freedom of the press...must be subordinated to the overriding needs of Singapore”.

May I also point to a certain Lee Kuan Yew and his son; Lee Hsien Loong. Its double standards to criticise me when you fail to see that Singapore is being run by a family. You see Huawei - I still respect you, but you have to respect me and not try to demonise me, especially when I am pointing out blatant truths which you have clearly tried to ignore!


LOL Redstone you go from one joke to another. Protests/Demonstrations are not the same as riots! Protests are just another form of democratic action. Just like instead of sending a letter, you make a videocall or send an e-mail. I've participated in a couple of demonstrations where I want to make my voice more vocal. Sending an e-mail is nothing compared to thousands marching down Westminster. You don't get the publicity of sending an e-mail do you now :|

I can write an e-mail to who I want, I can visit the local MP, I can become PM, etc - not to hard!

Riots (which have never occured in the last 20 years) have always been met with due force. The difference is that when they have the opportunity to go along peacefully. This is the problem that you fail to acknowledge :yes:


I also don't get the architectural issue - both cities are probably as varied as both can be. Each specialising in different niche architectural styles - is this something so hard for people to comprehend :?

You see Huawei - I still respect you, but you have to respect me and not try to demonise me, especially when I am pointing out blatant truths which you have clearly tried to ignore!
The thing is, my dear nick, did I specifically deny anything you have just bothered to type?

But anyway, there are some factual errors in your post, which I do not know if I should bother responding since you are just going to insist I am ignoring you anyway. :D I dont think I am in a good position to open my mouth at all, am I? ;)

You might also know about a certain thing called the Internal Security Act where people are detained without trial for any reason (at least in Britain if your a suspected terrorist you get detained and rightly so and even then thats only a recent thing cause of 9/11).


Haha....as you can see Britain is doing the same thing as Singapore after 9/11, what does that says?? Singapore Government has better foresights??:D


May I also point to a certain Lee Kuan Yew and his son; Lee Hsien Loong. Its double standards to criticise me when you fail to see that Singapore is being run by a family.

I wonder what are the other ministers doing??? Get paid to idle in their office while Lee kuan Yew and his son Lee Hsien loong work their brains out????

Apparently not. :)

Haha....as you can see Britain is doing the same thing as Singapore after 9/11, what does that says?? Singapore Government has better foresights??:D


:rofl:

You might like the fact that in 1999 Singapore had the highest per capita executions of any nation on the planet. As you can tell, I may have only spent some 17% of my life in Singapore, but I'll be damned if you can try and turn me into some sort of leper who should know all the ins and outs of a foreign country. I bet you would be hard pushed to get a rough summary of the entire British political system. Anyone would (even me after studying Government & Politics for several years!)!!!!
http://www.economist.com/images/19990403/cas401.gif
JANUARY 17, 2004

Amnesty's allegations on executions absurd, says Govt

A GOVERNMENT spokesman yesterday dismissed as absurd a report by human rights group Amnesty International that Singapore led the world in executions and keeps such numbers a secret.

'Amnesty International's allegations are really absurd,' said a Ministry of Home Affairs (MHA) spokesman. 'For example, I do not know what Amnesty International means when it says that the execution rate in Singapore is 'shrouded in secrecy'.'

Pointing to how Singapore has a legal system widely recognised as one of the fairest and most transparent in the world, the spokesman criticised the group for 'obviously trying to drum up a campaign against the death penalty'.

His remarks were in response to a blistering report by Amnesty on Jan 14, claiming that Singapore had likely the highest per capita rate of executions in the world. The report cited a United Nations study that said Singapore had three times the number of executions, relative to the size of its population, compared to the next country on the list, Saudi Arabia.

More than 400 prisoners in the last 13 years have been hanged, and official information about the use of the death penalty is 'shrouded in secrecy', Amnesty said. The death penalty tends to be meted out to the most marginalised and vulnerable people in society, including migrant workers, drug addicts, the impoverished or uneducated, it further alleged.

It called on the government to impose an immediate moratorium on the executions and reconsider its stance that the death penalty was not a human rights issue.

Amnesty found support from Singapore Democratic Party, whose secretary-general Chee Soon Juan said the death penalty must be reviewed as data suggested that it might not be the most effective tool 'in deterring the crimes that it is designed to prevent'. He said in a statement on Thursday that the findings in Amnesty's report were 'consistent with the blatant disregard and abuse of human rights by the PAP Government. The Democrats are particularly vexed about the fact that those in the lower strata of society are the most vulnerable to these executions.'

In yesterday's statement, the MHA spokesman said: 'It is widely recognised that Singapore has one of the most fair and transparent legal systems in the world.' All trials involving capital cases are tried in an open court and reported in the press. Even Court of Appeal hearings are open. This makes all judicial decisions involving the death penalty open to public scrutiny.

All accused persons are also properly represented by lawyers. If they cannot afford lawyers, the state will appoint one from a panel of private lawyers for him. 'Furthermore, no person is executed until all avenues of appeal for clemency have been exhausted.'

On what he described as Amnesty's 'campaign' against the death penalty, he said the proper way to change the law is through the constitutional route. Thus one would have to campaign on such a platform and get voted into Parliament. 'But he won't find much support here. Most Singaporeans know that our tough but fair system of criminal justice makes Singapore one of the safest places in the world to live and to work in.'

He added that the Government will issue a detailed rebuttal in due course.

Ministry of Home Affairs
Singapore

Press Date
30-Jan-2004

The Singapore Government's Response To Amnesty International's Report "Singapore - The Death Penalty: A Hidden Toll Of Executions"

Executive Summary:

Amnesty International's (AI) report on the death penalty in Singapore has confused two aspects: AI's advocacy of the abolition worldwide of the death penalty on the one hand, and its description of the death penalty within the judicial and legal system in Singapore, on the other. AI's position on the former is well known. However, in its attempt to campaign against the death penalty in Singapore, AI has resorted to grave errors of facts and misrepresentations, which seriously calls into question the credibility of its Report.

2 AI is entitled to have its own view on the issue of the death penalty, and to campaign against it worldwide. But AI's position on abolition of the death penalty is by no means uncontested internationally. The issue of the appropriateness of the death penalty is one where there is no international consensus. Many, including Singapore, have determined that it is a necessary punishment for certain offences. Neither do the norms of international law constrain in any way each country's sovereign right to adopt the use of the death penalty in its criminal justice system.

3 The death penalty in Singapore: Singapore imposes capital punishment only for the most serious crimes. Mandatory death sentences are prescribed when the crime is so serious that the death penalty is warranted for the commission of the offence, when made out, under any circumstances.

4 This sends a strong signal to would-be offenders, to deter them from committing crimes such as murder and offences involving firearms, which would severely compromise the safety and security of Singapore. In the case of drug trafficking, the death penalty has deterred major drug syndicates from establishing themselves in Singapore.

5 The Singapore Government makes no apology for its tough law and order system. Singapore is widely acknowledged to have a transparent and fair justice system and is one of the safest places in the world to live and work in.

Amnesty International's claim that the death penalty is a violation of international human rights standards

6 In pursuing its international political agenda "Amnesty International opposes the death penalty worldwide in all cases without exception."1,AI makes the sweeping statement that the death penalty is a violation of international human rights standards.

7 We do not agree with this.There is no international consensus on abolition of the death penalty. Key international instruments that apply to countries with wide divergences in cultures and values do not proscribe the use of the death penalty in their texts.2 For example, even the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights provides that the death sentence "may be imposed only for the most serious crimes".

8 On the two occasions, in 1999 and 1994, that the European Union attempted to get the United Nations General Assembly to adopt a resolution that called for a moratorium on the death penalty with the view towards its abolition, these attempts failed. This was because a large majority of UN member states disapproved of the EU's attempt to impose their views and systems on the rest of the world. AI refers to the resolutions adopted in the UN Commission on Human Rights that encourage states to stop executions. However, AI failed to say that on at least seven occasions, a significant number of countries disassociated themselves from those resolutions. In 2003, 63 countries, or one-third of the UN's membership, disassociated themselves.

9 AI accuses Singapore of "running counter to the worldwide trend towards abolition of the death penalty" 3. But whether a country should retain or abolish capital punishment is a question for each country to decide, taking into account its own circumstances. Every country has the sovereign right to decide on its own judicial system. We do not live in a homogenous world.Within certain universally agreed broad parameters, international norms call for the respect of differences of views and beliefs. Singapore does not seek to impose its views on others. We only ask that others do not impose their views on us.

10 Singapore weighs the right to life of the convicted against the rights of victims and the right of the community to live in peace and security. Taking into account our national circumstances, we have made a considered decision to retain the death penalty. It has worked for us, making Singapore one of the safest places in the world to live and work in.

Factual inaccuracies and gross misrepresentation of facts in AI"s account of the death penalty in Singapore.

11 Singapore recognises that the death penalty is a severe penalty and cannot be remedied in the event of any mistake in its application. That is why we use it only for very serious crimes.

12 In its efforts to campaign and press its agenda against the death penalty in Singapore, AI has deliberately misrepresented or distorted the facts concerning the death penalty in Singapore. We cite only the following two examples in this summary (but see detailed rebuttal in the attached paper).

13 "Majority of those executed are foreigners": AI's allegation that the total percentage of foreign nationals executed in recent years "is very high", and that out of 174 executions recorded by Amnesty International from press reports between 1993 and 2003, "the number of foreigners ... is more than half."

14 This is completely false. Singaporeans, and not foreigners, were themajority of those executed.

15 "It is mostly the poor, least educated, and vulnerable people who are executed": AI also alleges that the death penalty has been disproportionately imposed on the poorest, least educated and most vulnerable members of society.

16 This is also not true. Of those executed from 1993 to 2003, 95% were above 21 years of age, and 80% had received formal education. About 80% of those who had been sentenced to capital punishment had employment before their convictions.

17 To advance its political campaign against the death penalty, it is clear that the AI has chosen to deliberately misrepresent the facts. The Singapore Government has decided to make a detailed rebuttal, to address the misrepresentations and distortions by AI.

Huaiwei - I guess you couldn't address my points regarding the PAP then and how its highly undemocratic - no problems, but if you want to act immature by thinking that all freedoms are reduced then you are sorely mistaken and that was NEVER the approach that I put forward. You can not disagree however that Singapore is a highly rigid and regimentive country though!


This isn't about Britain, but I just wanted to point out that when the trouble arose, that Britain took action to deal with the problem. The question you should ask yourself has Singapore been under terror alert for decades like Britain has with the IRA? Yet we only took action after the emergence of trully global terror networks. The al Maktoum family of Dubai is one family, yet they still have control over Dubai. There are of course ministers with "loyalty" to certain family members. Afterall, one family can not do hundreds of jobs. Were talking of cronyism here :yes:

AI'S ALLEGATIONS AND THE FACTS.

• AI alleges: ... the number of foreign nationals executed in recent years, the total percentage is believed to be very high. Out of 174 executions recorded by Amnesty International from press reports between 1993 and 2003, the number of foreign nationals totals 93, which is more than half. Many of them are believed to have been migrant workers ..." (5.1)

Fact: Contrary to AI's claims, Singaporeans, not foreigners, were the majority of those executed in Singapore.From 1993 to 2003, 64% of those executed were Singaporeans.In the last five years, 73% executed were Singaporeans.4Given that one in four residents in Singapore is a foreigner, it is not only false but mischievous to allege that a significant proportion of prisoners executed were foreigners.

• AI alleges: ...Studies have shown that the death penalty is disproportionately imposed on the poorest, least educated and most vulnerable members of society ... (2) ...in practice, the death penalty often falls disproportionately and arbitrarily on the most marginalised or vulnerable members of society. They include young people who are just entering adulthood, drug addicts, the poorly educated, the impoverished or unemployed, and migrant workers... (6.2)

Fact: Again contrary to what AI reports, the death penalty did not fall disproportionately on the "poorest, least educated and most vulnerable members of society".Of those executed from 1993 to 2003, 95% were above 21 years old; and about 80% had received formal education. About 80% of those who had been sentenced to capital punishment had employment before their convictions. (Annex A (http://www2.mha.gov.sg/mha/upload/mid13/type4/cat0/990_312_Govt%20Response%20to%20AI%20Report%20-%2030%20Jan%2004%20(Annex%20A).doc))

In the six case studies, AI has chosen to only repeat allegations made in defence that had expressly been considered and been rejected by the Courts.In doing so, it has deliberately omitted to mention that the very same allegations had been carefully considered and rejected by the respective Courts, with detailed reasons that are reported and subject to public scrutiny.AI has not dealt with the reasoning of the Courts at all, but has only repeated the allegations in emotional language.

• AI alleges:"Official information about the use of the death penalty in Singapore is shrouded in secrecy" (1)

Fact: For good reasons, Singapore of course does not conduct executions in public. But it is absurd for AI to allege that the "death penalty in Singapore is shrouded in secrecy". Singapore has one of the most fair and transparent legal systems in the world. All judicial decisions involving the death penalty are open to public scrutiny. All trials and appeals (including capital cases) are conducted in public. Indeed, the more newsworthy trials are routinely reported in the local and even international media. AI has, from time to time, sent observers to attend trials in Singapore.

Singapore's legal and judicial system has consistently been rated highly in international and regional rankings for its integrity and transparency.In the 2003 Asian Intelligence Report of the Political and Economic Risks Consultancy (PERC), based on a survey of expatriates working in Asia, Singaporewas ranked top in Asia for the overall integrity and quality of its legal system, a ranking it has held since 1998. In the 2003 World Competitiveness Yearbook published by the Swiss-based International Institute for Management Development (IMD), Singapore's national legal framework was ranked first, followed by Finland and Hong Kong.Singapore has held this position between 1997-2000 and 2002-2003. Similarly, Singapore's legal framework maintained its top ranking in the 2003 assessment of the Business Environment Risk Intelligence (BERI).

• AI alleges: ...Foreign nationals facing the death penalty are confronted by additional difficulties threatening their right to life and right to a fair trial. For instance, they may not always be familiar with the laws of the country where they are tried, and they may have difficulty understanding the charges against them or participating in the proceedings if facilities for interpretation are inadequate...." (5.1)

Fact: Every individual accused of capital crimes, be he a foreigner or a Singaporean, is represented by lawyers. If the accused is unable to afford a lawyer, the state will appoint not one but two counsels (at no cost to himself) from a panel of private lawyers from the preliminary inquiry through to the trial, the appeal and the clemency petition. If he does not agree to the counsel assigned, he may request for alternative counsel. Trials are conducted in English. If the accused is not familiar with the English language, he will be assigned an interpreter of the language of his choice throughout the trial so that he can understand the proceedings and may instruct his lawyer on any matter as the trial develops.

• AI alleges: "There is virtually no public debate about the death penalty in Singapore". Controls imposed by the government on the press and civil society organisations curb freedom of expression and are an obstacle to the independent monitoring of human rights, including the death penalty..."

Fact: AI's insinuation that there are not greater public discussions on death penalty in Singapore because the Government "imposes controls which curb freedom of expression" is false. Questions have been raised in Parliament on the death penalty, and the Government has released information on the number of persons executed. But the fact is that the death penalty is not a burning issue in Singapore. Most Singaporeans support the death penalty for serious crimes as it has helped to keep Singapore's overall crime rate low - at least three ratings reports, Mercer HR Consulting, the World Competitiveness Yearbook and PERC have ranked Singapore as one of the safest places in the world5.

The death penalty is a just punishment for those who knowingly and intentionally commit serious crimes, which threaten the lives of others.The death penalty, because of its finality, is more feared than imprisonment as a punishment. It deters some prospective criminals who may not be deterred by the thought of mere imprisonment. AI is obviously trying to drum up a campaign against the death penalty.The proper way to change the law is through the constitutional route.If a person wants to advocate a particular stand, he should campaign on the basis of his platform and get the people of Singapore to vote him into Parliament. But he would not find much support in Singapore.

• AI alleges: " ..... mandatory death sentence ... imposed for possession of fairly small amounts of drugs..... Amnesty International has recorded a number of executions in Singapore of individuals found in possession of relatively small quantities of drugs ......" (8.2)

Fact: It is no secret that Singapore considers drug trafficking among the most serious crimes and that given Singapore's small size and location near the Golden Triangle, views itself as particularly vulnerable to the drug menace. The fact is, Singapore does not mete out the death penalty lightly.The amount of heroin leading to a mandatory death sentence must be more than 15g. This refers to more than 15g of heroin in its pure form, ie dia-morphine.This is equivalent to a slab of approximately 750g of street heroin capable of being made into over 3,700 heroin straws, with a street value of over US$100,000. This is well above the amount of heroin that an addict would normally need for his personal consumption alone. AI may consider this as "fairly small amounts of drugs", but Singapore certainly does not. The death penalty plays a key role in deterring organised drug syndicates from establishing themselves in Singapore and keeps the drug situation under control.

• AI alleges: "Scientific studies have consistently failed to find convincing evidence that the death penalty deters crime more effectively than other punishments. Criminologists have long argued that the best way to deter crime is to increase the certainty of detection, arrest and conviction. ..." (2); " ...Observers have drawn attention to the need to combat the social conditions which can give rise to drug abuse and addiction, rather than resorting to executions as a solution..." (8.3)"despite the use of the death penalty and high execution rates, drug addiction continues to be a problem, particularly among the poorly educated, impoverished, unemployed and young people from broken homes ...Those convicted of more minor drug offences also face cruel, inhuman and degrading punishment. Persistent or so-called "hardcore" drug addicts who have been admitted more than twice to a drugs rehabilitation centre are treated as criminals and may be imprisoned for up to 13 years and sentenced to caning..." (8.3)

Fact: Drug addicts are not given the death penalty but are instead sent to the Drug Rehabilitation Centres to help them kick their habit and reintegrate them into society. Having tough laws is but one of the pillars of our multi-pronged approach to tackle the drug menace. The other pillars are rehabilitation/aftercare6,preventive drug education7and enforcement against all who contribute to the drug problem8.?

Singapore's holistic approach to tackling the drug problem has worked for Singapore. According to the UN Global Illicit Drug Trends Report 2003, Singapore has among the lowest prevalence of drug abuse across a range of hard and soft drugs. (Annex B (http://www2.mha.gov.sg/mha/upload/mid13/type4/cat0/990_313_Govt%20Response%20to%20AI%20Report%20-%2030%20Jan%2004%20(Annex%20B).doc)) The number of drug abusers arrested has been declining over the years9.Recidivism rates of drug addicts have been improving10.

• AI alleges: "A series of clauses in the Misuse of Drugs Act ... contain presumptions of guilt, conflicting with the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty and eroding the right to a fair trial.." (1) "...The Misuse of Drugs Act contains a series of presumptions which shift the burden of proof from the prosecution to the accused. ... .Amnesty International is gravely concerned that such presumptions erode the right to a fair trial, increasing the risk that an innocent person may be executed ...." (8.2)

Fact: The presumption clause in the Misuse of Drugs Act (MDA) merely presumes that the person had the drug for the purpose of trafficking.The amount prescribed in the presumption clause for trafficking is set at a reasonably high level. In the case of heroin, this is more than 2g of pure heroin, which is equivalent to about 500 heroin straws or over 150 times the average daily dose of a moderate heroin drug abuser. If the drug he possesses exceeds this amount, then he is presumed to have it for the purpose of trafficking rather than for personal consumption.11

The presumption clause can be rebutted in court. The prosecution studies every case carefully. There have been cases where the accused was found to possess drugs more than the amount prescribed in the presumption clause, however the prosecution did not proceed against the accused on a capital charge of trafficking as it was not satisfied that the accused was a trafficker.During the trial, the accused person can rebut that the drugs in his possession were not meant for the purpose of trafficking.The court will hear the evidence adduced by both the prosecution and defence, and base its judgement on the evidence presented and not merely because the presumption clause was invoked. Furthermore, if the accused can prove to the court that he is a chronic abuser and would therefore need to be in possession of a greater amount of drugs for his own consumption, the trafficking charge may be reduced to one of possession of a controlled drug, which does not attract the death penalty.

• AI alleges: "Further concerns have been expressed that the Misuse of Drugs Act allows for secret evidence from informers to be used during trials. ...The use of evidence from anonymous witnesses may render the trial as a whole unfair...." (8.2)

Fact: Information provided by informers is not admissible evidence and the prosecution cannot rely on it to prove the essential elements of the offence.Such information merely provides a lead to the enforcement officers to commence investigations into drug trafficking activities.For the safety of the informer and in order not to compromise the Central Narcotics Bureau's sources, the identity of the informer is protected under section 23 of the MDA. However, the court may compel full disclosure concerning the informer in certain prescribed circumstances.

• AI alleges: " Due to lack of independent inspections of prisons it is difficult to establish the facts about conditions on death row. ...Relatives have informed Amnesty International that prisoners under sentence of death are kept in strict isolation in individual cells measuring approximately three square metres....It is believed that they are not permitted to go outside for fresh air or exercise ....About four days before the execution date, as a special concession, prisoners are permitted to watch television or listen to the radio and are given meals of their choice, within the prison's budget. They are also allowed extra visits from relatives but no physical contact is permitted at any time before the execution...." (6.1)

Fact: Our prison conditions are spartan but adequate.Visiting Justices, who are prominent members of the community, conduct regular unannounced visits to the prison institutions to make sure that prisoners, including those on death row, are not ill-treated.

Itis not true that prisoners are not allowed to exercise. All prisoners, including condemned prisoners, are entitled to their dailyexercises. In fact, there are two exercise yards dedicated for this use. Theyare normally allowed to exercise twice a day, half an hour each time, one or twoat a time.

• AI alleges: "Families of convicts are normally informed of the impending execution dates less than one week beforehand, causing them great anxiety and uncertainty." (6.1)

Fact: Although family members are not with the inmate at the moment of execution, they are informed four days before the executions (for foreigners, the families and embassy will be informed earlier, usually seven to fourteen days) and allowed daily visits lasting up to four hours for each visit during these four days.The execution is carried out in the presence of a Prison medical doctor.Upon request, a priest or a religious minister is allowed to be present, to pray for the person to be executed.

• AI alleges: "The provision of mandatory death sentences deprives the courts of the discretion to weigh the evidence in capital cases in order to consider mitigating circumstances. This can result in decisions which are both arbitrary and disproportionate to the circumstances of the case...." (7.1)

Fact: Singapore imposes the death penalty only for the most serious crimes. Mandatory death sentences are prescribed when the crime is so serious that the death penalty is warranted for the commission of the offence under any circumstances.Such mandatory sentences are used to send a strong signal to would-be offenders, to deter them from committing crimes such as murder and offences involving firearms, which would severely compromise the safety and security of Singapore. In the case of drug trafficking, the death penalty has deterred major drug syndicates from establishing themselves in Singapore. Contrary to AI's claim, there is no arbitrariness in mandatory death sentences. The same penalty is imposed on anyone who commits the offence.

Notes

1 See section 2 of AI report

2 Article 6, paragraph 2 of the International Covenant of Civil and Political Rights states that sentence of death may be imposed only for the most serious crimes. In his statement to the Rome Diplomatic Conference of Plenipotentiaries on the Establishment of an International Criminal Court, the President of the Conference declared that the debate at the Conference showed that there is no international consensus on the inclusion or non-inclusion of the death penalty, and further that not including the death penalty in the Rome Statute would not in any way have a legal bearing on national legislations and practices with regard to the death penalty. Nor should it be considered as influencing, in the development of customary international law or in any other way, the legality of penalties imposed by national systems for serious crimes.?

3 See section 3.1 of AI Report

4 Persons executed in the last 5 years by offences and nationality

Breakdown by nationality
Singaporeans: 101
Foreigners: 37

Breakdown by offences
Drugs-related offences: 110
Non drugs-related offences (Murder and arms-related offences): 28

5 In its latest study on Asian legal systems (June 2003), PERC had this to say: "Singapore has a well-deserved reputation for being one of the safest cities in the world for someone to live. Crimes against persons and property are very low, and when they do happen, they are dealt with very efficiently by the system."

6 Our drug rehabilitation programmes provide treatment and aftercare support and employment opportunities for drug addicts. Under Prisons' Community Based Rehabilitation Programme, addicts are released into the community to continue their rehabilitation in a supportive environment, for example, in a halfway house. Volunteer welfare organisations such as the Singapore Anti-Narcotics Association also provide counseling and aftercare services to ex-addicts to help them reintegrate into society. Providing employment opportunities is also important to the successful rehabilitation of drug addicts. Agencies such as the Singapore Corporation of Rehabilitative Enterprises have a range of schemes that help recovering addicts secure employment and, in the process, instill confidence and strong work ethics in them.

7 In the last few years, Singapore has developed effective preventive drug programmes targeting school-going pupils and out-of-school youths. Through the National Council Against Drug Abuse, we have also been able to forge a strong partnership between the Government and community self-help groups, voluntary welfare and youth outreach organisations and the private sector in our anti-drug efforts.

8 We also take tough enforcement measures. Our strategy against drug trafficking is to detect and arrest all traffickers before they band together and develop into large-scale and sophisticated players in the drug scene. Singapore also works together with foreign drug enforcement agencies to penetrate and cripple international drug syndicates. Central Narcotics Bureau's close ties with foreign agencies facilitate the effective exchange of intelligence and joint operations against traffickers.

9 Drug abusers arrested (1993 - 2003)
1993 1994 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003
Total number of abusers 5857 6165 6016 5744 4752 4502 3826 3157 3417 3393 1785
First time abusers 1293 1341 978 1421 1134 769 786 672 784 911 714
10
Year of Cohort Released from Drug Rehabilitation Centres 2-year Re-incarceration rate*
1994 81.40%
1995 74.30%
1996 70.40%
1997 68.40%
1998 67.10%
1999 63.20%
2000 59.10%
*Defined as the percentage of inmates in a one-year cohort who are re-incarcerated within two years of their date of release from a Drug Rehabilitation Centre.

11 To attract the death penalty, the person has to be in possession of more than 15g of heroin in its pure form, ie dia morphine. In its street form, the amount of heroin trafficked has to exceed the equivalent of over 3,700 heroin straws or over 1,200 times the average daily dose of a moderate drug abuser.

Huaiwei - I guess you couldn't address my points regarding the PAP then and how its highly undemocratic - no problems, but if you want to act immature by thinking that all freedoms are reduced then you are sorely mistaken and that was NEVER the approach that I put forward. You can not disagree however that Singapore is a highly rigid and regimentive country though!
As I said, I am not going to disagree with some of the things you say, yeah? I am not here to disagree with EVERYTHING you say, you get me, quite unlike how you behave? Immature? Well quite simply, you already insisted that if I were to disgree with any of your views, then I must be a PAP lackey, is that not? So what do you want me to do now? Speak, or not speak?

But anyway, when I see a need to correct your comments, have I not done so in the lengthy reproductions I just did, which I am sure you arent going to bother to read? Call me a PAP lackey for all I care! :D

This isn't about Britain, but I just wanted to point out that when the trouble arose, that Britain took action to deal with the problem. The question you should ask yourself has Singapore been under terror alert for decades like Britain has with the IRA? Yet we only took action after the emergence of trully global terror networks. The al Maktoum family of Dubai is one family, yet they still have control over Dubai. There are of course ministers with "loyalty" to certain family members. Afterall, one family can not do hundreds of jobs. Were talking of cronyism here :yes:
Have you ever bothered to find out why the IRA was implemented in Singapore in the first place, before shooting off all that stuff in a thread about Singapore and Sydney? In the earlier thread, you keep talking about every other city except the ones under discussion. Are you going to do the same thing here again?

Ah contraire - I will read it tomorrow :yes:

But come on - you have to admit that there are problems with Singapore. The country has adapted to the new world order.....but it needs a new front and a democratic one at that :yes:

LOL no - but that other thread was a blatantly sckewed thread. At the mo I need to go and do some forms :)

Besides Singapore is well known as a Garden country, I am sure it has lower criminal rate and is a safer place.

Some of my pics taken in April :)
http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v133/RafflesCity/DSCN2089.jpg

http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v133/RafflesCity/gs29.jpg

http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v133/RafflesCity/nc3.jpg

http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v133/RafflesCity/scene.jpg

http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v133/RafflesCity/scenea.jpg

http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v133/RafflesCity/sceneb.jpg

http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v133/RafflesCity/scenec.jpg

http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v133/RafflesCity/DSCN1960.jpg

http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v133/RafflesCity/DSCN1953.jpg

http://img43.photobucket.com/albums/v133/RafflesCity/DSCN2065.jpg

Raffles Place and the area outside the MRT station
http://photo.starblvd.net/Raffles/5-1-2-1084391561?m=1&pg=4&ro=0&co=1

http://photo.starblvd.net/Raffles/5-1-3-1084391739?m=1&pg=4&ro=0&co=2

Boat Quay at the river
http://photo.starblvd.net/Raffles/5-1-4-1084377583?m=1&pg=4&ro=0&co=3

Walking outside the City Hall
http://photo.starblvd.net/Raffles/5-1-5-1084378457?m=1&pg=4&ro=0&co=4