National Rail Awards 2010

Best Station (Large & Overall)

Winner - Liverpool Lime Street (Network Rail)

Link - http://www.natrailawards.co.uk/page_viewer.asp?page=Home&pid=48

Quite an achievement considering only three years ago it was voted joint worst by passengers!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/6927406.stm

You know maybe those two dreadful sculptures of Ken Dodd and the egg person had something to do with this win. Whenever I walk past them I either see Japanese tourists taking photos with them or people with taste pointing and laughing as the sheer awfulness of what is before them, so these monstrosities are clearly making station users much happier.

Station of the year, not to sure, ...........

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc242/woody43/liverpool%202010/14Aug2010LukasLiverpoolVisit154.jpg

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc242/woody43/liverpool%202010/14Aug2010LukasLiverpoolVisit155.jpg

Indeed, seems like a token award because you can see it properly now.

The retail offering is poor, there are dead birds between the tracks (one has been there a week), and as the photograph shows the signage is inadequate so sandwich boards need to be used. It is also hard to take too seriously - Doncaster was "Highly Commended" - the station is awful.

Still, an award is an award :)

^^

I agree. It was only awarded for the work done to open up the front, not to say this wasn't commendable. The inside is a minor horror story. If I were taking Ian Coucher's place and had the cash, I'd keep the train sheds, scrap everything inside - including the new Virgin office etc. - and start again.

http://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/liverpoolecho/sep2010/1/5/liverpool-biennial-logo-768860909.jpg

Mark McNulty Photography (http://www.flickr.com/photos/markmcnulty/4995030431/sizes/l/in/photostream/)
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4086/4995030431_05dd54f0ca_b.jpg

Good stuff, Porto.

Re. the station: I noticed the betting shop that's been opened in there for the first time this week. Class. :ohno:

A betting shop in the station?! That's one thing I hate the last government for - the relaxation of betting laws. Criminal.

It has been there probably a year now.

The art on the Futurist actually draws the eye towards the smart neo classical frontage of this building. This should be restored rather than demolished.

^^

I agree. It was only awarded for the work done to open up the front, not to say this wasn't commendable. The inside is a minor horror story. If I were taking Ian Coucher's place and had the cash, I'd keep the train sheds, scrap everything inside - including the new Virgin office etc. - and start again.

Agreed. I think there should be a London St Pancras style approach. Shops, ticketing etc sunken below the platforms perhaps with underground parking too leaving a much more impressive and open platform area. Perhaps intergrating the North Western hotel as an entrance using the arched windows as a continuation of the now exposed arches near the steps?.....

Does anyone know if anything is ever going to happen with the old taxi area under the MSP? I haven't been to that part of the station in a while but whenever I did taxis were unable to drive into the old designated area leaving them to clog up that side street. Been like that for a good few years as well. Is there any particular reason why it's like this? If it isn't going to be used for taxis again it would be good if they could extend the station into that area.

St Pancras and Kings Cross are beacons of station redevelopment, and the Euston plans put forward by the HS2 report looked impressive too. It would certainly be useful to bear these in mind when thinking about Lime Street station. Like you say, 21C, making use of the North Western Hotel and having underground parking would free up space in and around the station.

I don't, however, think that sinking the ticket hall etc. underground would be productive, as one would need to go underground to buy a ticket, then up again to board a train. Or, as in the case of St Pancras, have the trains on a raised level, which, in my opinion, would be far too costly.

The introduction of proper high speed trains (HS2 and beyond) would require a complete overhaul of the station. Siting the HS2 terminus anywhere other than Lime Street would be difficult and impractical for passengers (for example at Edge Hill).

As you've suggested, gottago, it would be nice to bring the northern end of the station into use, but, having looked at the surrounding area, I don't think it would be feasible to place the necessary number of platforms there; the land to the south makes more sense - enveloping Skelhorne Street, the nearest student block, the vacant land, the Crown, and the sorting office (which, although I would be sorry to see it close, surely will under this government's plans). I've created a user map on Google maps (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&oe=UTF8&t=h&msa=0&msid=108954988047651016433.000490c52181b5bb977e2&ll=53.406731,-2.974602&spn=0.003946,0.011362&z=17) to illustrate this point.

A complete station overhaul would also provide the opportunity to reconfigure the platform layout, which, at the moment, is diabolical. The large gap between platforms 7 and 8 - which are given over to a sticking-plaster collection of, amongst other things, waiting rooms, vacant premises, broken ticket machines and barriers - along with the taxi ramp and short-stay car park, could provide enough new platforms to ease overcrowding. This would mean the space in the newer of the two existing train sheds would be fully utilised for its original intention. At the same time, platforms 1 to 6 could be brought further towards the front of the station in order to accept longer trains.

Roll on high speed 2!

Actually, the north end would be better really, if you were to knock down Copperas Hill Sorting Office (being closed anyway), The Gladstone etc. Also, Skelhorne Street is now a much more important route than it once was, now that the rather weird one way/bus lane systems have been put in all around that area.

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee235/Gareth_Parr/LimeStreetStationExpansion.jpg

Actually, the north end would be better really, if you were to knock down Copperas Hill Sorting Office (being closed anyway), The Gladstone etc. Also, Skelhorne Street is now a much more important route than it once was, now that the rather weird one way/bus lane systems have been put in all around that area.

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee235/Gareth_Parr/LimeStreetStationExpansion.jpg

What about the land a bit further north of there as well? including the 02 Academy and the old Odeon Cinema? This could serve as an 'annexe' to the station, something similar to Manchester Picaddily where Liverpool/Southport trains depart.

Some underground parking needs to be thought about, however, I doubt there are many sites nearby. Furthermore, the cut in which the lines approach needs to be widened. So realisitically, it would be a huge project

Hmmmmm. I'm not convinced Gareth, as much as I'd like to be. I think that when you look at the space between the pillars at the northern edge of the station and the road - or to the line of buildings if it was deemed appropriate - you'll find it isn't enough to provide even four new platforms. The south western corner of your blue rectangle rather overlaps the existing train shed.

The other problem I can see is that the north-eastern corner of the station juts out, and any new platforms would have to snake around this. Not a major problem, though, I admit.

Your suggestion is one that I have actually been mulling over ever since the HS2 report was released. It was only recently that I have, for want of better words, modified my analysis.

What about the land a bit further north of there as well? including the 02 Academy and the old Odeon Cinema? This could serve as an 'annexe' to the station, something similar to Manchester Picaddily where Liverpool/Southport trains depart.

Some underground parking needs to be thought about, however, I doubt there are many sites nearby. Furthermore, the cut in which the lines approach needs to be widened. So realisitically, it would be a huge project

To build an extension at the northern end and behind the Empire Theatre would be an awful compromise. A solution to this may be to eat into the Theatre itself - with the possibility of rendering it useless - or indeed to demolish it; a solution that would be politically fraught.

Regarding the cutting - yes it may need to be widened, although I think this would be very tricky considering how many buildings are built on and around it. It may even be more expensive than boring a new tunnel.

A high speed rail terminus in Liverpool is going to be a huge project any way you look at it, whether it's a new station or an extension to Lime Street.

... Regarding the cutting - yes it may need to be widened, although I think this would be very tricky considering how many buildings are built on and around it. It may even be more expensive than boring a new tunnel.
A high speed rail terminus in Liverpool is going to be a huge project any way you look at it, whether it's a new station or an extension to Lime Street.
Yes.

If you really want a high speed rail terminus for international trains in Liverpool this means 400metre platforms, more than twice as long as Lime Street presently has. The only sensible place to put the needed (two?) long platforms near Lime Street is underground. Or just possibly elevated on stilts. Liverpool's geology makes tunneling relatively cheaper than elsewhere (not that it is cheap anywhere). Just possibly by using one of the heritage tunnels as a pilot.

In the end it is probably cheaper and better to put the International station somewhere else.

.
In the end it is probably cheaper and better to put the International station somewhere else.

Edge Hill, with tram connection through the Wapping tunnel ,to the Waterfront on to Liverpool Waters via the CBD, with a second line down into and around the city centre.

A relativly cheap way to improve Lime St Station, would be to use the ground floor area of the old NW Hotel for ticketing, and shops , demolish the solid wall between the concourse and platform and erect a glazed wall as they have done in Manchester.

This visualy connects the two principle areas of the station, concourse & platforms, to create a less claustrophobic / crowded concourse and give a more open feel to the whole train shed.....

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc242/woody43/liverpool%202010/14Aug2010LukasLiverpoolVisit154.jpg

If you really want a high speed rail terminus for international trains in Liverpool this means 400metre platforms, more than twice as long as Lime Street presently has.

I addressed this issue on my map (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&oe=UTF8&t=h&msa=0&msid=108954988047651016433.000490c52181b5bb977e2&ll=53.406731,-2.974602&spn=0.003946,0.011362&z=17). I'm not dead against platforms being built underground, but I'd rather have the natural light that a new train shed could afford.

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx217/matcorv/limestreethighspeed.png


In the end it is probably cheaper and better to put the International station somewhere else.

Edge Hill, with tram connection through the Wapping tunnel ,to the Waterfront on to Liverpool Waters via the CBD, with a second line down into and around the city centre.

I am willing to accept that a new high speed rail terminus could be built somewhere other than Lime Street, but I find it difficult to see how building it at Edge Hill could be reconciled with several major requirements.

Chief amongst these is the possibility and ease of making onward connections. In this respect Edge Hill is left at a distinct disadvantage. If you were travelling from London to Southport, Kirkby, Hunts Cross or the Wirral, you'd have to make two changes: one at Edge Hill and another at wherever you could get a train from, i.e. in Liverpool city centre.

The proximity to the city centre also counts for a lot - walking distance to shops, offices, hotels, the waterfront and bus routes that serve the city centre. Although on this count, I view your suggestion, woody, as just about acceptable, albeit a compromise.

On both counts, though, the business case for a high speed rail terminus at Edge Hill is diminished, and for this reason I don't see it ever being built at Edge Hill.

As I've said, I'm open to the idea of it being built somewhere else, but the above principles must govern. This might mean that the Merseyrail network is changed completely, so that connections to the Nothern Line and Wirral Line are on the site of the station, wherever it may be. It might mean reserving the vacant land west of Great George Street so that one day it could be built there.

One also must take into account any new lines to be built. Long tunnels, new bridges or viaducts might have to be built as well.

When I condsider all these things, I return to the site I've suggested and see this, currently, as the only realistic suggestion.



Also... have a look at the HS2 documents:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/pi/highspeedrail/hs2ltd/hs2report/

The suggested Euston site is in chapter 3.2, while the suggested Birmingham route and new Fazely Street station is in chapter 3.6.

Happy reading!

A relativly cheap way to improve Lime St Station, would be to use the ground floor area of the old NW Hotel for ticketing, and shops , demolish the solid wall between the concourse and platform [...]

This is essentially the idea. You can see how much better the station would look and operate.

[...] and erect a glazed wall as they have done in Manchester.

This visualy connects the two principle areas of the station, concourse & platforms, to create a less claustrophobic / crowded concourse and give a more open feel to the whole train shed.....

Nice idea! If the British rail network were fully electrified and no diesel trains came into Lime Street, I think we could do without the glass wall, but as it is I think this is a great idea.

It is no use proposing a high speed terminus in Liverpool as it will be seen as only serving this city. What is needed is a 'through' station which carries on via the west coast to Glasgow. In that way it is not deemed as a Liverpool solution but is a west coast solution.

It is no use proposing a high speed terminus in Liverpool as it will be seen as only serving this city. What is needed is a 'through' station which carries on via the west coast to Glasgow. In that way it is not deemed as a Liverpool solution but is a west coast solution.

How about this idea? Link the Chester to Birkenhead line at Rock Ferry to the old Exchange to Preston line via a new Mersey Railway tunnel with stations to serve both Liverpool and Wirral Waters. (It might be possible to have one station under the river bed with travelator access to each shore). This would give a through route from Crewe via Chester and Liverpool to Preston.

I know that tunnelling the Mersey would be expensive but I believe that the existing routes were built, at least in part, for four tracks and so land acquisition and environmental disruption would be much reduced:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/Martin_S/SkyscraperCity/HS2.jpg

How about this idea? Link the Chester to Birkenhead line at Rock Ferry to the old Exchange to Preston line via a new Mersey Railway tunnel with stations to serve both Liverpool and Wirral Waters. (It might be possible to have one station under the river bed with travelator access to each shore). This would give a through route from Crewe via Chester and Liverpool to Preston.

I know that tunnelling the Mersey would be expensive but I believe that the existing routes were built, at least in part, for four tracks and so land acquisition and environmental disruption would be much reduced:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/Martin_S/SkyscraperCity/HS2.jpg

Putting a station under the river bed would give a lot of people the heebies - but the principal of the route and the thinking behind linking Liverpool and Wirral Waters has merit as has the onward route to Preston and beyond. If we are going to convince the powers that be to include Liverpool in the planning then it's my opinion that a through route is required and this is one proposal that meets the bill.

Excellent idea Martin - no doubt very expensive, but offers such a lot of benefits.

Not sure I'd want to compromise the integrity of the Merseyrail system by running HSR trains along the lines. If we're going to go to the trouble of building a cross-river HSR route, with completely new stations, we may was well make new routes into and out of the city too.

Gareth,

The idea is to run parallel to the Merseyrail system, making use of the four track alignments that exist between Birkenhead and Chester and the former Exchange Station and Preston. Remember that the Birkenhead Chester line used to be part of the GWR main line from London (Paddington) to Liverpool via Woodside Station and the Mersey Ferry and the Ormskirk branch of Merseyrail was the main line from Liverpool to Scotland.

I'm sure a lot of engineering work would be required as high speed lines have wider track intervals and need more clearance in tunnels but the existence of a strip of land running right through the centre of the urban area and with an almost straight alignment is a great asset when you consider the disruption and land acquisition costs associated with building a completely new line.

I agree with Bee Gee that building a station in tunnel under the bed of the Mersey would be problematic but maybe worth consideration. I would envisage it as consisting of three tunnels, all about the same size as a single bore of the Kingsway road tunnel. That would allow for two platforms, that would be about 5m wide (and so considerably larger than the Merseyrail underground platforms) and a central concourse with travelators linking it to surface buildings on each shore.

The problem with having a station on each shore is that, if we want a high speed through route through the city region, we don't want the trains to be stopping twice as it would reduce the time advantage experienced by points north of Liverpool.

In fact, this issue is quite important when looking at the high speed network as a whole.

If we were to have a northern extension of HS2 going through the centre of Liverpool, whilst we would want every train to stop here, places to the north such as Glasgow and Edinburgh may want a non-stop service to minimise journey time and that is a problem on a high speed line.

On a conventional speed line, stations can have loop platforms to allow non-stopping trains to overtake stopping trains, such as at Crewe. However, on a high speed line with linespeeds of up to 200mph, the stopping and acceleration distances involved are so long that extensive sections of four tracking would be required either side of the station. For that reason, Birmingham is unlikely to get a through station as the costs of the associated trackworks would be too great.

It would be great to have a through route via Liverpool and this suggestion of mine was just to look at a way that it could be done whilst minimising the bulge in the route which would not go down well with places to the north of here.

When I first thought of it, the idea was not so much to have the main high speed route through Liverpool but to remove the Liverpool traffic from the existing route north of Crewe, so increasing capacity for traffic on the Manchester route and therefore removing the requirement for a completely new route. As in France with the TGV routes, lack of capacity on the existing lines, not so much the desire for high speed is the main driver for new construction.

^^ I think existing 'classic' lines spurring off the main north/south HSR line will be the order of the day, although an HSR line north of Birmingham is years away and with the way this country works, I may not live to see it.

How about the Fiddlers Ferry route as an alternative access to the WCML or the HSR line? I've heard people on here (such as Babaloo) tout it to be added to Merseyrail, though I don't think it offers much in terms of commuter rail.

^^ I think existing 'classic' lines spurring off the main north/south HSR line will be the order of the day, although and HSR line north of Birmingham is years away and with the way this country works, I may not live to see it.

How about the Fiddlers Ferry route as an alternative access to the WCML or the HSR line? I've heard people on here (such as Babaloo) tout it to be added to Merseyrail, though I don't think it offers much in terms of commuter rail.

I think you are probably right about spurs off the main HSR line. I think though that the line that would be chosen would be the Liverpool to Manchester line via Warrington Central. The advantage of that arrangement would be that the population and business community of Warrington would be added to that of Liverpool so boosting the case for the line and ensuring a good frequency of trains.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v421/Martin_S/Merseyrail/HS2.jpg

There was an interesting article comparing HS2 with maglev in a recent issue of Building magazine: http://www.building.co.uk/buildings/maglev-high-speed-trains-london-to-manchester-in-55-minutes/5004925.article

I was in Liverpool the other day going to a gig at the Academy, and I have to say that even though the new steps at the front of Lime Street are a massive improvement on what was there before, the same reservations about these sort of concrete/flagstoned 'public realm improvements' crossed my mind: in very bright sunshine (which was how it was when I arrived as the weather was gorgeous and sunny that day), the whole area becomes blinding white, and with no area to seek much shade, you really wonder if these sort of vast open areas are thought through properly. There were about six 'trees' planted at one end. And I have to say that these were probably six of the most pathetic and feeble looking trees I have ever seen. Are the developers taking the michael or do they want to limit the amount of foliage falling on the flags and thus littering the steps? It really is quite inexplicable as to why more substantial greenery wasn't put there - a fountain feature would have been nice. It just come across to me as very dry and sterile.

Exactly the same impression was gained when I was at the Pier Head visiting the Beatles Exhibition - this vast expanse of concrete with the new canal extension running down the middle of it. Again too much white flagstones and those godawful ramp-like terrace things that flank the canal. This looked like a very ill-thought out plan - too fussy by half. What I recall of the previous Pier Head was that there were three green lawns in front of the three graces, now there's just the one: the canal route having taken up much of the rest of this wide esplanade area. But why isn't there a more inspired method of design / utilisation of this vast space? Is it (as I suspect) a cost-cutting thing or do these developers want to do away with too much greenery because it is too high-maintenance?

In the words of Mao, grass is bourgeois. Maybe we have some Maoist planners.

I was in Liverpool the other day going to a gig at the Academy, and I have to say that even though the new steps at the front of Lime Street are a massive improvement on what was there before, the same reservations about these sort of concrete/flagstoned 'public realm improvements' crossed my mind: in very bright sunshine (which was how it was when I arrived as the weather was gorgeous and sunny that day), the whole area becomes blinding white, and with no area to seek much shade, you really wonder if these sort of vast open areas are thought through properly. There were about six 'trees' planted at one end. And I have to say that these were probably six of the most pathetic and feeble looking trees I have ever seen. Are the developers taking the michael or do they want to limit the amount of foliage falling on the flags and thus littering the steps? It really is quite inexplicable as to why more substantial greenery wasn't put there - a fountain feature would have been nice. It just come across to me as very dry and sterile.

Exactly the same impression was gained when I was at the Pier Head visiting the Beatles Exhibition - this vast expanse of concrete with the new canal extension running down the middle of it. Again too much white flagstones and those godawful ramp-like terrace things that flank the canal. This looked like a very ill-thought out plan - too fussy by half. What I recall of the previous Pier Head was that there were three green lawns in front of the three graces, now there's just the one: the canal route having taken up much of the rest of this wide esplanade area. But why isn't there a more inspired method of design / utilisation of this vast space? Is it (as I suspect) a cost-cutting thing or do these developers want to do away with too much greenery because it is too high-maintenance?


Put sunglasses on, you'll be fine pal!

There was an interesting article comparing HS2 with maglev in a recent issue of Building magazine: http://www.building.co.uk/buildings/maglev-high-speed-trains-london-to-manchester-in-55-minutes/5004925.article

To use that annoying Americanism, it's a no-brainer. What is the point of wasting billions on 20th century technology in the 21st? Even if we waited for another 20 years until we were sure the technology worked it would be worth it. Conventional technology will cut about 30 mins off the journey down to London, what's the point? It'll just be as short sighted as still building steam engines into the 1960's to save jobs in the coal industry.

It made sense to build the TGV in France or the AVE in Spain because they are far bigger countries, so the savings made were more beneficial; in the 1980's it took 6 or 7 hours to get from Madrid to Seville now you can do it in about 2½ hours, that makes sense, but all that money for 30 mins less? Nah!! Let's lead the world in something once again. Maglev? Put me name down.

To use that annoying Americanism, it's a no-brainer. What is the point of wasting billions on 20th century technology in the 21st? Even if we waited for another 20 years until we were sure the technology worked it would be worth it. Conventional technology will cut about 30 mins off the journey down to London, what's the point? It'll just be as short sighted as still building steam engines into the 1960's to save jobs in the coal industry.

It made sense to build the TGV in France or the AVE in Spain because they are far bigger countries, so the savings made were more beneficial; in the 1980's it took 6 or 7 hours to get from Madrid to Seville now you can do it in about 2½ hours, that makes sense, but all that money for 30 mins less? Nah!! Let's lead the world in something once again. Maglev? Put me name down.

Maglev has been around for 40 years - if it was commercially viable, it would be everywhere by now, but it is simply to expensive.

There is only one proper maglev system in the world, and it is so expensive to build, maintain and run that it is forecast to NEVER make a profit. It is also extremely noisy.

It would be hugely expensive to build in the densely populated UK. It can't run on existing lines to penetrate urban areas so huge amounts of land would have to be built at great cost around every city. It is also all or nothing - you have to build the entire line at once as the trains can't come off it onto 'classic' lines.

Maglev is great for a straight A to B system. But start factoring in a whole network with points for different branches and you have huge problems.

The only place maglev will happen in this country is in peoples minds - that is realism, not being pessimistic.

^^

40 years? So what? The modern steam engine was around for at least 100 years before it was used on the Liverpool and Manchester Railway, rudimentary steam engines were used hundreds of years before that.

From what I understand the issues of land for the HSR will exist even with the existing technology we have.

When they started to build the railways, they started with one line and then built a network; the first train not running between Liverpool and Manchester until they had finished that line, they had the same issue back then.

I'm no expert, but, with respect, I don't see one single argument in your post that persuades me that Maglev is as much pie in the sky as you suggest.

On a final note, who says public transport should be for profit anyhow? How many existing railways lines make money in the strictest sense of the word. None, I suspect.

http://www.staff.ljmu.ac.uk/beshpate/pIMG_0179.jpg

http://www.staff.ljmu.ac.uk/beshpate/pIMG_0180.jpg

The lift still insn't work!

^^

40 years? So what? The modern steam engine was around for at least 100 years before it was used on the Liverpool and Manchester Railway, rudimentary steam engines were used hundreds of years before that.

And it had no competition from other 'fast' modes of transport unlike now.

From what I understand the issues of land for the HSR will exist even with the existing technology we have.

They certainly will not. I will state again. Maglev requires large dedicated tracks everywhere it is intended to run it too. This is NOT required for HSR as it can use 'classic' lines to penetrate city centres - like it will do in Liverpool. That means no expensive land is required in the city centre (or equally expensive tunnelling).

When they started to build the railways, they started with one line and then built a network; the first train not running between Liverpool and Manchester until they had finished that line, they had the same issue back then.

Does that mean everything that applied back then also applies in todays modern world? How much more expensive do you think it is to build small sections and order incredibly bespoke rolling stock bit by bit?


I'm no expert, but, with respect, I don't see one single argument in your post that persuades me that Maglev is as much pie in the sky as you suggest.

There is a thread in the UK Transport subforum which goes into much more detail :)

On a final note, who says public transport should be for profit anyhow? How many existing railways lines make money in the strictest sense of the word. None, I suspect.

The Government does. It doesn't make it right, but that is the way it is.

It all boils down to money. The problem is, we don't have any. Large scale maglev will not happen in our lifetimes - not in the UK and probably not anywhere else. Like I said, the one commercial system in the world is forecast to never make a profit during its lifetime.

http://www.staff.ljmu.ac.uk/beshpate/pIMG_0179.jpg

http://www.staff.ljmu.ac.uk/beshpate/pIMG_0180.jpg

Is that a recent pic? Cos if it is, it looks as if those pathetic little 'trees' at the right hand side have disappeared. have they?

^^ Look closely. They're still there.

Surely, still, the most depressing part of town.

the student accommodation ruins that view the sooner something blocks those buildings the better and a bit of greenery would help.

the student accommodation ruins that view the sooner something blocks those buildings the better and a bit of greenery would help.

Enough of the arboreal correctness; the last thing we need anywhere near our very best buildings are trees, particularly tall ones. Best thing to do with the student block is knock it down, and relocate Norton Street coach station next to it.

Enough of the arboreal correctness; the last thing we need anywhere near our very best buildings are trees, particularly tall ones. Best thing to do with the student block is knock it down, and relocate Norton Street coach station next to it.

Copperas Hill might be a better/more realistic location for a new coach station. Once Royal Mail eventually move out it will leave a huge site behind for development.

Liverpool’s new Lime Street Gateway officially opens
07 October 2010

Liverpool’s Lime Street Gateway project reached a successful conclusion today when it was formally opened by the leader of Liverpool City Council.

Cllr Joe Anderson was joined by partners in the project, including Diane Walton, Head of Area for Merseyside & Cheshire at the Homes and Communities Agency (HCA), Max Steinberg, chief executive of Liverpool Vision, Paul Lakin, Director of Land and Property, Northwest Regional Development Agency (NWDA), Nicola Lavin, Head of Project for the European Regional Development Fund (ERDF), and James Holyoak of Glenn Howells Architects.

This key gateway project has included the removal of an obsolete office building and a row of shops which had obscured the station’s listed Victorian arched gable end since the 1960s, creating an impressive new area of public space.

The space – designed by the award-winning Glenn Howells Architects – provides a transformed approach to one of the city’s most important visitor gateways with a new accessible main entrance to the station, seating areas, gentle slopes and feature lighting. It also links more effectively with the city’s cultural and retail quarters.

Distinguished artist Simon Faithful was commissioned to design a series of etchings which have been incorporated in the glazing to the station arches and in the surrounding paving.

Diane Walton said: “This has been a very challenging and complex project which has been delivered through close partnership working. It has completely transformed the entrance to Lime Street Station, creating a magnificent gateway into Liverpool for local people and visitors alike.”

Cllr Joe Anderson said: “It has been a real partnership effort and I feel Lime Street is again something that the city will be proud of for many years to come.

“It has been a very complex process and I would like to thank users of the station and the local business community for their patience and also for their continued support for the project.

“This is a key gateway to the city and many visitors’ first sight of Liverpool and now we have a station that befits a city of Liverpool’s status which I’m sure will leave a lasting impression.”

Max Steinberg, chief executive, Liverpool Vision said: “This completion of this project is another important milestone in the transformation of Liverpool city centre, and will act as a catalyst for the regeneration of the wider Lime Street area.

“The new space will encourage movement to the World Heritage Site and our outstanding new shopping areas. But most importantly, the station will now be easily accessible for everyone.”

Paul Lakin, Director of Land of Property at the Northwest Regional Development Agency (NWDA) said: “Liverpool has proved its worth as a world class visitor destination and city where businesses are welcomed. In a world where first appearances count, it is essential the city’s key public transport gateways are of international quality.

“As Liverpool’s main rail station and prime entrance to the city, it is important that Lime Street offers an attractive environment for passengers, with enhanced accessibility for all. This in turn will boost the city’s appeal as a visitor destination, boosting investment.”

Nicola Lavin, Head of Projects, ERDF said: “Lime Street Gateway represents an important milestone for ERDF, as the first project to be funded by the programme in 2008. To see its physical completion today is an excellent reminder of how the programme is helping to deliver amenities and facilities that are used by thousands of people each day, boosting economic development.”

James Holyoak, Glenn Howells Architects, said: "Lime Street Station sits at the heart of Liverpool's historic cityscape and our vision for the project has focussed on building on this legacy to restore the building to its former glory, as well as delivering an accessible, well-functioning station facility.

“Our ambition, from the outset, was to create a world class setting for the fine 19th century station frontage and at the same time recreate a high quality public space linking the station to St George's Hall and the Cultural Quarter.

“We are delighted to have had the opportunity to work on this very important project for Liverpool.”

The project has been delivered by a partnership between the Homes and Communities Agency (HCA), Liverpool Vision, Liverpool City Council, Network Rail and Mersey Travel and funded through investment from the HCA, Northwest Regional Development Agency (NWDA), European Regional Development Fund (ERDF) and the Railways Heritage Trust.

Source: Northwest Regional Development Agency (http://www.nwda.co.uk/news--events/press-releases/201001/liverpool-lime-street-opens.aspx)

scuba dooba (http://www.flickr.com/photos/scubadooba/)
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4144/5056700472_5a58ea07fd_b.jpg

The lift was working today, saw someone use it.

I guess this thread should be moved to Completed Projects?

^^

There are a number of threads like this one that now need moving out of the Construction Forum, and several more that shouldn't have been in this sub-forum in the first place, so I've asked b4mmy if he would be so kind as to move them all to where they are now best suited.

scuba dooba (http://www.flickr.com/photos/scubadooba/)
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4144/5056700472_5a58ea07fd_b.jpg

this looks great, glad they got rid of those tatty little shops to show off the fantastic victorian architecture. the new steps make the station shed feel a lot more imposing now :)

^^

There are a number of threads like this one that now need moving out of the Construction Forum, and several more that shouldn't have been in this sub-forum in the first place, so I've asked b4mmy if he would be so kind as to move them all to where they are now best suited.

Whereas the Liverpool One thread shouldn't really be under 'Completed Projects' yet, as they haven't developed Plots 21 and 22 (adjacent to Concert Steps).

Whereas the Liverpool One thread shouldn't really be under 'Completed Projects' yet, as they haven't developed Plots 21 and 22 (adjacent to Concert Steps).

A valid point. However, I think the reasoning behind that one was that we have a separate Hanover Street thread in the Construction Forum, where most of the discussion thus far on Site 21/22 has taken place, and when the Premier Inn gets going where the construction reports will probably end up, hence the main Liverpool ONE thread was moved.

A valid point. However, I think the reasoning behind that one was that we have a separate Hanover Street thread in the Construction Forum, where most of the discussion thus far on Site 21/22 has taken place, and when the Premier Inn gets going where the construction reports will probably end up, hence the main Liverpool ONE thread was moved.

Aha. I suppose it could also be in the Ropewalks thread, especially when Site 21 (the one with a Hanover Street frontage) is completed and the only plot left unfinished is Plot 22 (further up Seel Street, abutting Concert Steps).

The biggest, and most surprising, disappointment of my recent visits.

I'd loved this project and had great hopes for the vistas and grandeur I'd believed would be released by the clearing of space in front of Lime St.

It's primary stated purpose was to finally provide a grand showcase of the cityscape for those stepping through the plate-glass of the station for the first time.

Instead, it unleashes not the spires and clock-towers of Victoria St(obscured by the utterly dismal and generic Mariott) nor the finery of Britain's finest provincial neo-classical statement, St.George's Hall (too far to the right, out of the eyeline and opposite to where people are directed), but instead showcases and magnifies Liverpool's shittest structure, St.John's.
Worse, there's this big, horrible stupid balloon pumping out Murdoch's vile, retarded adverts centre-fucking-stage (and btw, what's his deal with Network Rail too? Don't they want to pay the License?)

So we got it all wrong. What we imagined we'd see, it turned out not to be possible- angles, elevations, gradients- not possible. But that's ok. We're not civil engineers, architects, etc. How were we to know? The point is that somebody should have before all that guff about "amazing sightlines to the city's most heroic buildings" started raising unreasonable expectations, and using shed-loads of cash.

Point two. The space itself.
Now, even with the disappointments of the above, the whole thing might've seemed somewhat worth it had an actual interesting, even delightful, public space been created.
As it is, I don't think anything prepares you, as you exit the station onto the steps for the sheer unalloyed, depressing, drap expanse of stuff you're now in the midst of.
I hadn't expected this at all, so not trusting my first reaction, made a special repeat visit on another day just to reassess.
Same.

This whole new desolate space we've created can now only be redeemed by the expensive addition of something of interest to built in the middle of it. It badly needs, say, a fountain (and not some tacky "contemporary" crap)
Something, baroque, detailed and ornamented to mirror the neo-classicism of St.Georges and hide and neutralise the once "contemporary" crap in front of it, otherwise the whole thing space remains a myopic paper-exercise, made expensive flesh, in wishful thinking and negligent advisors.

As an aside, I was pleasantly surprised by the walk up Lime St.- Renshaw St. Ok, so the Futurist need savings badly, but on the whole I think both streets are functioning pretty well. I much prefer the gritty "old-Liverpool" contribution places like the American Bar and that 24hr grocers place make to the city, rather than the rush to anywheresvillification of the place some of you seem to be able to polish a boner out of.

From the concerns about this part of the city I've read here I was expecting desolation and despond, but in these streets I found a place seemingly managing to kick-on and prosper, and in it's own way.

Lime Street Station looks beautiful and it used to look cack. I'm sorry they couldn't move St. Georges Hall a bit to the left for you but most people can compensate for this by engaging some neck muscles. I met a mate there yesterday who had travelled up from London for the Spurs game. He stood on those steps outside the station and said "Wow!"

As an aside, I was pleasantly surprised by the walk up Lime St.- Renshaw St. Ok, so the Futurist need savings badly, but on the whole I think both streets are functioning pretty well. I much prefer the gritty "old-Liverpool" contribution places like the American Bar and that 24hr grocers place make to the city, rather than the rush to anywheresvillification of the place some of you seem to be able to polish a boner out of.

From the concerns about this part of the city I've read here I was expecting desolation and despond, but in these streets I found a place seemingly managing to kick-on and prosper, and in it's own way.

I agree is some ways, as Lime/Renshaw St's do have economic activity in them, which is good. However, they are also dirty and uninspiring. Walking down that route gives such a bad impression and I have heard plenty of people say they don't feel safe around there, even in the day time. Even if they spent a measly £10m on a paint job for all the buildings on that corridor, it would do wonders for he area. But what really needs to happen is the whole block, on both sides, needs to go. Ideally keeping the Futurist, but I'm not so wedded to the past that I would object to its demolition if the replacement block was of a suitable quality.

Lime Street is a disgrace. Renshaw Street will be grand when Central Village is complete.

Prestigious national blue plaque award for Lime Street station

This week has seen the official unveiling of a commemorative plaque marking a prestigious national award for the Lime Street Gateway project from National Railway Heritage Awards (NRHA) in the category ‘Station Environment’.

NRHA is the only awards body in the UK dedicated to encouraging and rewarding best practice in the restoration and upkeep of the rich heritage of railway and tramway buildings and structures. The award was sponsored by HS1 Ltd, the company which owns the High Speed 1 railway, as well as St Pancras, Stratford, Ebbsfleet and Ashford international stations.

In making the award, the NRHA judges commented that “the project has created a magnificent setting for the now wonderfully uncluttered south station facade, and access to the station is now a pleasure rather than a task of negotiating obstructions as it was before”. The judges also referred to the “superb” lighting scheme, and commended the “concept, design, attention to detail and execution”.

The design comprises gentle slopes and steps to address a three metre change in level from the station concourse to Lime Street.

A lift links street level to concourse level and provides access to the subway and to Merseyrail. Seating, tree planting, and feature lighting have been incorporated to add variety and interest. Public art in the glazing of the façade and the stone paving traces a journey from Liverpool UK to Liverpool Nova Scotia. The paving materials are natural to reflect the setting opposite St George’s Hall.

Max Steinberg, Chief Executive, Liverpool Vision, the city’s economic development company which led on the scheme, said: “The transformation of the Lime Street gateway from an unappealing mix of offices and shops into a magnificent area of public space providing a superb setting for the station frontage is one of the most significant developments in Liverpool city centre in recent years.

“The project combines outstanding design with greatly improved accessibility to and from the station, and will act as a catalyst for the regeneration of the wider Lime Street area.

“On behalf of all of the partners in the project we are delighted to accept this prestigious award for ‘Station Environment’ from National Railway Heritage Awards.”

Nicola Shaw, chief executive of HS1 Ltd, said: “Having won similar recognition for the work to renovate and modernise St Pancras International, we at HS1 know what a coveted award this is. Such high quality restorations demonstrate the power the railway has to offer a lasting benefit to local people and the local environment.

“Lime Street Station is sure to become the driver for the improvement of the whole district. Congratulations to all those involved.”

The Homes and Communities Agency worked in partnership with Liverpool Vision, Liverpool City Council, Network Rail, and Merseytravel, throughout this project to deliver a world-class gateway incorporating high quality public realm worthy of Liverpool City Centre.

Neil Pickering, Head of Area for Merseyside and Cheshire, Homes and Communities agency added: “The Lime Street project is a flagship scheme as it is the key gateway to the City of Liverpool for road and rail users. This has been a very challenging and complex project which has been delivered through close partnership working. It has completely transformed the entrance to Lime Street Station, creating a magnificent gateway into Liverpool for local people and visitors alike.”

http://www.liverpoolvision.co.uk/News/prestigious_national_blue_plaque_award_for_lime_street_station.aspx

I love the new Lime Street conversion and it is such a relief from what was there before. I pass through quite often (usually running to catch the manc train I'm late for) but I can't help feeling there is just something missing there, maybe a little bit too much open space? Maybe its just because I'm not used to the monstrosity that was there before...

It looks great from photos on here, has really opened up the beauty of the station, along with Sheffield it has to be one of the most impressive uses of space to highlight the majesty of railway architecture and provide a fitting gateway to a great city.

Regeneration Liverpool to develop Lime Street area
20 Mar 2013, 14:23
David McCour

The joint venture between Sigma Inpartnership and Liverpool City Council, Regeneration Liverpool, has signed an option agreement on the development of an area to the east of Lime Street in Liverpool.

The site forms a gateway to the city for visitors arriving at Lime Street Station and is the main pedestrian route to the universities.

Lying to the south and east of Lime Street Station, the land is currently in a state of disrepair.

Development sites expected to come through the masterplan will be in the region of three hectares.

The project will be undertaken in association with Regeneration Liverpool's affiliate company Neptune Inpartnership, a joint venture between Sigma Inpartnership and Neptune Developments, which was formed in 2012.

Graeme Hogg, director at Sigma Inpartnership, said: "Significant improvements have been made to the Lime Street corridor in recent years, particularly to the new public realm outside of the station, but much still needs to be done.

"Now that the option agreement has been signed, the next step will be to start to outline a masterplan."

Steve Parry, managing director at Neptune Developments, said: "Lime Street and the Knowledge Quarter gives us an opportunity to both dramatically improve the quality of the major gateway to the city and make a significant contribution to the development of the knowledge economy, which is one of the mayor's key drivers for future growth."

Cllr Malcolm Kennedy, Liverpool City Council cabinet member for regeneration said: "Lime Street has the potential to be one of the most impressive parts of the city centre.

"There is obviously a great deal of work to be done before it becomes the type of gateway we would all like to see, but the signing of this agreement is an important step towards the regeneration of the Lime Street corridor."

Regeneration Liverpool is currently in the process of regenerating development sites in Norris Green and Stonebridge Cross Croxteth.

Source: Place North West (http://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/news/archive/13250-regeneration-liverpool-to-develop-lime-street-area.html)

the station, theatres, st georges, museums, library...that area of the city is a cutural and architecture world class gem, any city would kill for it......it may take its time but will be brought back to life and regain all its glory....my experience is that as you leave the station you feel isolated from the church st and central shopping area and have to make several crossings which are unpleasant and make you feel in a hurry to reach the pedestrianised area, specially if you are carrying a bag and it is raining.....it is an uneasy experience, unfriendly

big improvements made, the big ones really, but find that it should be further improved

regards

Needs to happen, grim area really.