View Full Version : San Francisco and Brooklyn: Sister Hipster Cities


SILVERLAKE
March 30th, 2008, 05:49 AM
I wonder who coined SANFROOKLYN? I also saw Broakland too.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/03/28/fashion/30sanf650.1.jpg

Personally I think Silver Lake and Echo Park in the might mother fucking city of Los Angeles are sister cities (like Manhattan and WestSide LA), but....

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/30/fashion/30sanfrooklyn.html?pagewanted=print

Sisters in Idiosyncrasy

By NOAM COHEN
EVE LEVINE, a 34-year-old real estate broker, recalls fondly the five years when she was, as she calls it, “low-cost bicoastal.” Her primary residence was in Brooklyn — first Williamsburg, then Bushwick and now Greenpoint — but she also had an apartment in the Fruitvale section of Oakland, Calif., that she visited for long stretches.

The apartment, actually a warehouse, was really big and inexpensive, she said. Friends paid the rent, but Ms. Levine said she could come back whenever she wanted, because they were friends.

In the fall of 2005, she severed ties to her West Coast warehouse.

“If you are trying to build something, whether a career or a bank account, you need to make a choice,” she said.

These days, she is a host of a gathering in Williamsburg called Home Buying for Hipsters, at which she explains the idea of Tenancy in Common, a form of ownership that enables people to combine their resources to buy a house jointly instead of just renting together. It is popular in the San Francisco Bay Area, she said, and she hopes to bring it to Brooklyn, where there is a similar pool of young people who have a history of sharing apartments through their 20’s.

“A lot of us are freelance,” said Ms. Levine, who in earlier life was a chef. “None of us work for a company for 30 years. We bounce from job to job.”

“Not to say that we are flaky,” she quickly added.

Between Brooklyn and San Francisco, Ms. Levine said, there is “something sisterly.”

Much the way Hollywood people have shuttled between Los Angeles and Manhattan for decades, or academics commute on the Acela between Morningside Heights and Cambridge, Mass., there is a young, earnest population that is beating a path between artsy, gentrifying neighborhoods in Brooklyn and their counterparts in the Bay Area, especially East Oakland and the area south of Market Street in San Francisco, or SoMa.

Richard Florida, the author of “The Rise of the Creative Class,” which argues that urban renewal is sparked by high concentrations of high-tech workers, artists, gay men and lesbians, ranked San Francisco No. 1 on his “creativity index” and New York City No. 9. Although Mr. Florida did not break out data for Brooklyn, “anecdotally it has a large concentration of creative people who have moved from Manhattan and elsewhere,” he wrote in an e-mail message. “I am confident if such data existed, Brooklyn would do very well.”

He added that the populations drawn to both areas by alternative art and music scenes, and by a tolerance for diversity, were looking for a “messy urbanism, a clash of different styles that Brooklyn still retains, that the East Bay still retains.”

Other communities across the country also fit this bill, but what Brooklyn and the East Bay share is proximity to more cosmopolitan centers — Manhattan and San Francisco — where the “creative class,” many of whom are freelancers, can earn a living.

“You can make money in both cities,” Ms. Levine said. “Can you make money in Portland, Ore.? It’s a cool city, it’s got lots of hipsters, but can you make money?”

Roger Guenveur Smith, an actor who has been “flowing in and out” of the Bay Area and Brooklyn since the late 1980s, said the two areas are similar in the relationship that Brooklyn has to Manhattan, and Oakland and Berkeley have to San Francisco: one of interest and curiosity, but also independence.

Mr. Smith’s career includes the borough-defining Brooklyn movie “Do the Right Thing,” as well as a one-man show about Huey P. Newton, a founder of the Black Panther Party in Oakland. He describes the two places as the ultimate “idiosyncratic communities” in the United States.

Dave Eggers, a writer and publisher, is another commuter on the Bay Area-Brooklyn shuttle. He relocated from the Bay Area a decade ago to create the McSweeney’s publishing empire in Brooklyn, then in 2002 moved McSweeney’s west and founded 826 Valencia, a children’s writing workshop, in the gritty Mission District of San Francisco. An offshoot, 826NYC, has taken root in Park Slope in Brooklyn.

The Mark Morris Dance Group is based at the Brooklyn Academy of Music, but puts on more shows at Cal Performances at the University of California, Berkeley, its West Coast home since 2002.

IF there is an aesthetic credo to Brooklyn and the Bay Area, it is Do It Yourself, which connotes more than using an Allen wrench from Ikea. D.I.Y. can mean everything from wearing locally designed T-shirts to attending concerts staged in someone’s warehouse apartment, to riding a bike to work.

Several businesses that have opened in both Brooklyn and the Bay Area exemplify the aesthetic. One of them, Rare Device, a home furnishings and fashion store in Park Slope, sells felted throw pillows and “wildcrafted soap.”

Rena Tom, who opened the store after she followed her husband east from Oakland so he could study architecture at Columbia University, said, “I asked where to move and they all said ‘Brooklyn, Park Slope.’ ” Eventually the couple relocated to San Francisco and she opened a second Rare Device on Market Street.

“We are cross-pollinating,” she said.

The Mollusk Surf Shop is also bicoastal. Its original outlet is in the Outer Sunset district of San Francisco, blocks from Ocean Beach. Last summer, a second Mollusk, selling hand-shaped surfboards, opened on Kent Avenue in Williamsburg.

Michael Machemer, the manager in Brooklyn, said the San Francisco and Long Island surfing cultures had similarities. “In San Francisco, the weather is cloudy, cold, gray,” he said. “It’s the same here. Sure, we get sunny days, but it is especially cloudy and gray in the winter, when we get our best waves.”

PEOPLE enjoy mapping connections between Brooklyn neighborhoods and those around the San Francisco Bay. Rob Reedy, who works for Chrome Bags in San Francisco, which makes accessories for bike messengers, said, “We live in SoMa, which is the Brooklyn of San Francisco.”

Meg Shiffler, who left Williamsburg two and half years ago to become the director of the gallery at the San Francisco Arts Commission, said, “East Bay to Brooklyn is the parallel.”

Cameron Marlow, a Facebook programmer in San Francisco, wrote in his blog about a friend who moved to New York and, after being shown apartments in Williamsburg, was surprised to find the neighborhood was not “cute.”

For the benefit of Bay Area readers, Mr. Marlow compared Williamsburg to the Mission District, an equally uncute neighborhood, with a large Hispanic population that has seen an influx of Mr. Florida’s “creative class.”

Even if it is easy to mock the uniformity of tastes in dress, music and haircuts of these newcomers, Mr. Florida, who is a business professor at Toronto University, is sympathetic. “I don’t want to blame the hipsters,” he said. “They are searching for places that are real and authentic. Many are isolated, many are alone. They were looking to avoid Generica. They were turned off by areas that had the same stores, Starbucks, etc.”

Danny Hoch, a Brooklynite, recently performed “Taking Over,” a one-man show about gentrification, at the Berkeley Rep Theater in California. “What I see as the reason for so many NYers having come to the Bay, and so many Bay folk moving to Bklyn (tens of thousands literally),” he wrote in an e-mail message, “is that each group has become accustomed to the alienation or perceived impossibility of staying where they are.”

Someone leaving Brooklyn for the Bay Area, he said, gets “a nicer climate, laid-back vibe, better produce, California’s nature close by, and a job scene where you feel more in demand as a NYer.”

The reverse, he said, is also true.

But Mr. Hoch predicted that the transience that allows people to hop between both places so fluidly would eventually lead them away.

“Although I think each side sees the other as an amazing place to live and spend time, neither sees it as a place to actually stay forever,” he wrote. “Both are nostalgic for home.”

“Each becomes the new ‘resident tourist,’ as I say in my play.”

krudmonk
April 1st, 2008, 04:23 AM
[gag]...[barf]

According to the article, what they have in common are people who think they're unique but all congregate in the same "go-to" default cities as anyone else.

klamedia
April 1st, 2008, 05:20 PM
Demographically Oakland is closer to Brooklyn and it just makes more sense.

bay_area
April 11th, 2008, 06:38 PM
Downtown Oakland is very similar to Williamsburg these days. Lots of edgier artists and a ton of hipsters(not the yuppie kind) live in Downtown Oakland these days. Its one of the most cutting edge places I can think of. I think its what SOMA was in its infancy when live-work artists actually existed en masse there.

I hope it doesnt change in Oakland. Keeping out the wannabes and yuppies is always hard for up-and-coming artist areas to do though.

bay_area
April 11th, 2008, 06:40 PM
Silverlake,
Manhattan and West LA are nothing alike aside from the glitz. San Francisco is just far more similar to Manhattan in just about every way.

SILVERLAKE
April 11th, 2008, 06:55 PM
Silverlake,
Manhattan and West LA are nothing alike aside from the glitz. San Francisco is just far more similar to Manhattan in just about every way.

In the ways you are talking about Cleveland, Detroit and Toledo are more similar to Manhattan than LA.

I'm talking about money, economics, culture, influence and power as well as glitz.

bay_area
April 11th, 2008, 06:59 PM
In the ways you are talking about Cleveland, Detroit and Toledo are more similar to Manhattan than LA.

I'm talking about money, economics, culture, influence and power as well as glitz.

No, there is no area comparable to West LA. Its like the ultimate perfect place where literally everyone is beautiful and there isnt a misplaced blade of grass or imperfection anywhere. Id love to live there again-why not? Sorta like what the media wants us to believe about Miami(no offense to Miami) but West LA actually delivers.

But Manhattan and SF are truly urban which means that aside from money and culture, both have grittier artist sections that are home to the kind of people described in the article above.

SILVERLAKE
April 11th, 2008, 08:26 PM
No, there is no area comparable to West LA. Its like the ultimate perfect place where literally everyone is beautiful and there isnt a misplaced blade of grass or imperfection anywhere. Id love to live there again-why not? Sorta like what the media wants us to believe about Miami(no offense to Miami) but West LA actually delivers.

But Manhattan and SF are truly urban which means that aside from money and culture, both have grittier artist sections that are home to the kind of people described in the article above.


San Francisco grittier than West LA? Yes

San Francisco on average grittier than LA?????? You got to be kidding. There are probably more hardcore gang members in LA than there are people under 18 in San Francisco. There are probably more illegal immigrants in LA than there are people in San Francisco.

Lastly, please explain to me how LA in not urban?

But let's not split hairs. LA, NY. DC and SF are the places to move to if you need to be rich AND relevant in order to be happy.

palindrome
April 11th, 2008, 10:01 PM
San Francisco grittier than West LA? Yes

San Francisco on average grittier than LA?????? You got to be kidding. There are probably more hardcore gang members in LA than there are people under 18 in San Francisco. There are probably more illegal immigrants in LA than there are people in San Francisco.

Lastly, please explain to me how LA in not urban?

But let's not split hairs. LA, NY. DC and SF are the places to move to if you need to be rich AND relevant in order to be happy.

I'll be sure to stay away. :lol::ohno:

bay_area
April 11th, 2008, 11:11 PM
San Francisco grittier than West LA? Yes

San Francisco on average grittier than LA?????? You got to be kidding.
Your original comment was solely on West LA-not the whole place.

Lastly, please explain to me how LA in not urban?
Didnt say LA isnt urban, but West LA(the area you said is comparable to Manhattan) compared to San Francisco and Manhattan most certainly is NOT in the same category "urbanwise". C'mon. And LA is urban but SF and Manhattan have very chic urban districts throughout that LA doesnt really have. LA has its own version of chic.

But let's not split hairs. LA, NY. DC and SF are the places to move to if you need to be rich AND relevant in order to be happy.
Let's not split hairs-I agree.

A person can find happiness most anywhere! 250 Million Americans seem to be doing just fine not living in and around the above mentioned cities. LOL

Suburbanite
April 12th, 2008, 12:02 AM
San Francisco grittier than West LA? Yes

San Francisco on average grittier than LA?????? You got to be kidding. There are probably more hardcore gang members in LA than there are people under 18 in San Francisco. There are probably more illegal immigrants in LA than there are people in San Francisco.

Lastly, please explain to me how LA in not urban?

But let's not split hairs. LA, NY. DC and SF are the places to move to if you need to be rich AND relevant in order to be happy.

You never cease to slay me.
One minute you are bragging about the glamor and wealth of LA, and the next you are insisting that it is grittier and more crime ridden than any other. I've never seen a booster with more versatility.:lol:

bobbycuzin
April 12th, 2008, 04:41 PM
i'd actually vouch that silverlake in LA is more similar to williamsburg in terms of culture than SF or oakland...if you've been around the hip/artsy neighborhoods in the bay area, you'll notice that they are completely detached from what is going on with similarly hip places in rest of the country (brooklyn, philly, chicago, etc), they really have their own thing going over there

you guys are thinking way too much about how these neighborhoods "look" rather than what actually goes on or comes out of them

Xusein
April 12th, 2008, 07:25 PM
I would rather not want Brooklyn to turn out like San Francisco.

Nice city, but from pics that I have seen from it, except for some major parts of the city, it's gentrified. Hopefully, Brooklyn's gentrification stays near Manhattan and stays away further inland. Yuppies always follow hipsters, which then they move to another neighborhood, and then the same thing happens again. It's a chain reaction.

Westsidelife
April 13th, 2008, 03:58 AM
Downtown LA's morphing into a SoHo type neighborhood. If that doesn't do it for ya, there's always WeHo, Beverly Hills, Hollywood, and Santa Monica. It's not exactly Manhattan, but it's the next best thing in terms of hipster culture.

edsg25
April 13th, 2008, 04:32 AM
My favorite Silverlake quotation:

"Chicago, San Francisco, and Brooklyn are America's true sister hipster cities. Obviously Chicago is my favorite out of the three. That whole Chicago vibe just blows me away. "

Third of a kind
April 13th, 2008, 06:26 AM
whats so great about hipster culture?

You got alot of cats who can't dress for sh*t, getting their whole wardrobe from urban outfitters. I mean I could go on for days about it, but it is what it is and thats that.

sf/bk? I heard comparisons between brooklyn and oakland, but i've yet to travel out to the bay area to see it for myself.

klamedia
April 13th, 2008, 11:07 AM
Being very familiar with both Silver Lake and Williamsburg and a frequenter of SF, the Silver/Williams connection is undeniable. The music, the fashion, the people. The fact that they both feel a bit less hardcore urban than some more intensly urban spots in their respective cities but still very cool. They also seem to attract all of those same kind of people that make my stomach quiver and gassy. I'll take Silver Lake over Williamsburg anyday though. Much more aesthetically beautiful and it has hills!!

SILVERLAKE
April 13th, 2008, 07:32 PM
you guys are thinking way too much about how these neighborhoods "look" rather than what actually goes on or comes out of them

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bobbycuzin
April 15th, 2008, 05:56 AM
I would rather not want Brooklyn to turn out like San Francisco.

Nice city, but from pics that I have seen from it, except for some major parts of the city, it's gentrified. Hopefully, Brooklyn's gentrification stays near Manhattan and stays away further inland. Yuppies always follow hipsters, which then they move to another neighborhood, and then the same thing happens again. It's a chain reaction.

i don't know when you were last in brooklyn but the gentrification is in no way contained to the areas around manhattan...it pretty much doesn't stop until east new york (been to crown heights lately?)

nygirl
April 17th, 2008, 12:50 AM
^^ Yes and it sure aint crown heights when I was growing up in Brooklyn.

Xusein
April 17th, 2008, 06:11 AM
i don't know when you were last in brooklyn but the gentrification is in no way contained to the areas around manhattan...it pretty much doesn't stop until east new york (been to crown heights lately?)

When I'm in New York (a lot lately, actually), I stick to Queens.

Hopefully, it doesn't take over the entire borough. :nuts:

edsg25
April 17th, 2008, 02:38 PM
another one of my favorite silverlake quotations:

"Chicago may very well be the number one hipster city in the world. then again, that city definitely maintains that #1 status in so many categories, doesn't it."

Are Minsk and Edinburg considered to be Europe's sister hipster cities? Discuss among yourselves.

edsg25
April 17th, 2008, 02:43 PM
But let's not split hairs. Chgo, NY. DC and SF are the places to move to if you need to be rich AND relevant in order to be happy.

and Omaha, don't forget. Very low cost of living, Sliverbrain, which allows you live a richer and obviously more relevant life to be happy. The place makes the man, doesn't it, Sliverbrain?

Look, genius, there are numerous people in places like Shreveport, Rochester, Bismarck, Los Angeles, Amarillo, Dayton, and Winston Salem who are living happy, productive, and money filled lives despite your observations; or your strong desire to put each of these cities and their fine citizens down.

You know, if you stopped extolling the joy-of-hipsterism, and actually tuned in the news once or twice, you may have picked up on the fact that the life styles of the American rich-and-famous may soon include food stamps. And that Shanghai, Beijing, Guangzhou-Foshan, and Taipei-Keelung may soon replace our cities on the hispter/life style hit parade.

bobbycuzin
April 18th, 2008, 05:52 AM
another one of my favorite silverlake quotations:

"Chicago may very well be the number one hipster city in the world. then again, that city definitely maintains that #1 status in so many categories, doesn't it."

Are Minsk and Edinburg considered to be Europe's sister hipster cities? Discuss among yourselves.

berlin is by far the top destination in europe for artists...it's basically 1980's new york without the crime

Somnifor
April 18th, 2008, 07:34 AM
You can find "hipsters" in places like Fargo and Menomonie, Wisconsin; North Branch, Minnesota even, which is a tiny town. It is the people who make the place rather than the place that makes the people.

If you HAVE to live in Brooklyn, San Francisco or LA to be cool then you aren't cool. On the other hand there are lots of opportunities in creative professions in those places.

SILVERLAKE
April 18th, 2008, 08:03 PM
You can find "hipsters" in places like Fargo and Menomonie, Wisconsin; North Branch, Minnesota even, which is a tiny town. It is the people who make the place rather than the place that makes the people.

.


Right. I work for a "company" that promotes indie bands and tries to network with college stations for airplay. A great indie band can come from everywhere in the country, but the scenes in LA and Brooklyn are 20 times as rich and "competitive" as other cities let alone podunk towns. If you can make a splash in those cities, you are destined for national notoriety. Plus those cities do have the strongest creative industries (fashion, art, entertainment, theater, film, music etc...) so a lot of the people that live on the edge of culture are there and they steer the boat.

vivo
April 19th, 2008, 08:44 AM
Right. I work for a "company" that promotes indie bands and tries to network with college stations for airplay. A great indie band can come from everywhere in the country, but the scenes in LA and Brooklyn are 20 times as rich and "competitive" as other cities let alone podunk towns. If you can make a splash in those cities, you are destined for national notoriety. Plus those cities do have the strongest creative industries (fashion, art, entertainment, theater, film, music etc...) so a lot of the people that live on the edge of culture are there and they steer the boat.



don't forget the emerging hipster burg of baltimore.

bobbycuzin
April 22nd, 2008, 05:19 AM
^^ i'd say baltimore falls well behind philadelphia, they are kind of tied together in the scene though

tmac14wr
April 22nd, 2008, 06:43 AM
Could someone give me a brief description of what a "hipster" is?

bobbycuzin
April 25th, 2008, 06:12 AM
someone who votes republican just to be ironic

Somnifor
April 25th, 2008, 07:34 AM
Could someone give me a brief description of what a "hipster" is?Someone who really wants to be an artist, musician or writer, etc. but has no talent, so they sit around trying to look cool.

The problem is they often look like actual creative people and have similar taste so it is hard to tell them apart. The difference is that one contributes to our society and culture while the other is a social parasite.

Angelino
May 10th, 2008, 01:27 AM
In that case, LA's Silverlake and Los Feliz areas are deffinately hipster hang outs.

klamedia
May 10th, 2008, 08:01 PM
Silver Lake, Echo Park and more recently the Koreatown area are truly the "hipster hangouts" of LA. But funny, all of the actual struggling musicians that I know live in the Valley or Hollywood.