#PROPOSED: MARINA SKY TOWERS, 2 x 60F Mixed Use

[Dubai_Steve]

http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/4014/mst02ps6.jpg

http://www.marinaskytowers.com/

Marina Sky Towers launched recently consists of 3 major towers, each near or above 100 floors, sat on a 14 storey car park plinth.

Is it fair to say that it does not fit in well with it's surroundings, creating imbalance with the surrounding tower layouts and is far to imposing to position right on the edge of the marina walk way?

It would seem a some what bad decision to approve this project and will likely cause significant infrastructure problems around the marina area of Dubai.

Many existing residents of Dubai marina are seriously affected by this proposal and worried about just how such a decision was passed at the highest levels?

Is Dubai marina out of control from a management perspective, lacking planning regulation controls and has become almost a free for all - anything goes situation?

You have to wonder, don't you?

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/1205/mstyr8.jpg

http://i27.tinypic.com/348hlqr.jpg

The aesthetics of Marina Sky Towers will not add to the beauty of the Marina but will be an ugly intrusion into what is currently an area of architectural splendour. The sheer size and mass of the proposed structures will not blend into the existing cityscape and will not fit well with the surrounding architecture. It will not compliment landmark developments such as the original Phase 1 complex and the surrounding towers. The height and scale of the proposal, in particular it's oversized podium will be totally overbearing to the area and will not make residents or visitors feel at ease with their surroundings, let alone enjoy the waterfront lifestyle. Furthermore the traffic and logistical problems that this will introduce into what is already an overcrowded area will be disastrous for the Marina. The increased volume of traffic generated by towers of this height and volume will make it near impossible to move freely around this already crowded end of the Marina.

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4463/marinareadyforrende8na5.jpg

http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/6923/imresolt147qt4.jpg

The project has currently been delayed until September 08 with rumours of a change to 2 office towers and 1 residential tower in order to be able to sell out the units of this horrific project.

Marina Sky Towers is the most hated project in Dubai.

how will the roads cope with ppl in that 100f office and 100F and 90F residential towers with those small roads in that area?? this is just silly...height limits HAVE to be put in place not for flight paths...but for the infrastucture!

R

Emaar will not only ruin their own Phase I development but will have every customer that bought land from them in this area complaining.

putrid podium, lack of imagination in design, density is insane btw the buildings, what a waste of such prime property.
And why the hell is there a road facing the marina!

Really ugly development regardless where it is.

My God! I just saw the prospected towers! This is really a nightmare for the marina...

I think Emaar's reputation will be irreparably harmed if they permit this monstrosity to go ahead.

Marina Walk & Phase I = ruined

It is ways to high for this area of the marina and much to dense, would look terrible within the marina, maybe they should relocate it to somewhere else, maybe Dubai Waterfront!


Whoever made the decision to say "yes this can be built here" has no vision whatsoever.

The podium is utterly hideous. If I had a berth in front of that thing I'd severly annoyed with a huge shadow and 4 lanes of traffic just yards away...

Projects like that make Dubai more and more totally unattraticve.

And they are ruining the "oldest" part of the Marina which could have been a nice and unique place.

I can't believe that the authorities are this stupid. It has disaster written all over it.

The location of the plot deserves an iconic building.
The sheer size means that there will be no blending with the surrounding buildings.
There will be gridlock due to the traffic.
The contruction noise will please no one in the surounding buildings.

So for me the blame goes on the people who approved this.

Stupid project in wrong location ...

Terrible project. It will ruin all the tallest block.

If we all join forces and stand behind it when its built, we'll hopefully be able to push it into the Marina. This project is ugly and stupid. And no one in their right mind would ever need 14 stories of podium.

I was considering buying another apartment in the marina but don't think I'll bother now that marina walk will be ruined. Cannot get over how hideous that podium is and the 4 lanes right next to the marina.

One day Channel 5 will make a program called "Top 50 Design Blunders" and this will be right up there.

I recon this was designed by the developers themselves as opposed to hiring architects.

Since the whole complex is butt ugly people will want to leave asap.

This is a totally ugly idea that will completely ruin this side of the marina, completely over load already breaking capacities of infrastructure and so be strongly fought from going ahead, to the highest levels within Dubai.

This is estate mis-management of the highest order and all current residents and owners of apartments in this area should be forming a legal action case rejecting this project as being totally out of keeping and likely to cause severe infrastructure problems for existing residents.

Seriously hacked off with the whole episode and has ruined all plans to live over there permanently.

I so regret buying anything in Dubai and never would again. This sort of decision is going to start a selling spree within the marina area, as clearly, EMAAR don't have a f'ing clue what they are doing.

Nasty podium, total eye-sore... Was expecting something more iconic

Even though i dont have any investment in marina. I too have sent a message to Highness. can every one do the same please.

Very Bad idea

those towers are fugly!

Having worked on this project before it became Marina Sky Towers, I am quite disappointed with the current proposal.

The PROPOSED project will ruin the intention Emaar had for Marina Walk.

Whatever, we must do whatever it takes to save the Marina. If they ruined the Palm, the Marina is a joke....as the architects digest has claimed that Dubai is an architectural MESS! Hence this project conforms it! GREED AND DODGY DEVELOPERS IS ALL THAT MATTERS IN DUBAI THESE DAYS.

This plot has so much potential to make the tallest block something really nice and peaceful instaed of building tall towers. You can´t enhance live quality with just tall buildings.

I really hope for all tallest block residents that this get cancelled.........

This eye-sore of a project will ruin the phase 1 area of Dubai Marina.

This is the wrong location for such towers. The podium is far too tall destroying the marina lifestyle.

The podium of the towers is just way too big.

This hair-brained, badly-designed project will ruin the entire Marina, not to mention cause all kinds of traffic problems! And Jeez! To the architect - are you freaking blind man??? Your design sucks ass! You should immediately be struck off and incarcerated for your crime!

This plot should be used to maximise liveability for all Marina Residents not maximise profits.

MST is the perfect way to destroy some of the best land in the marina! Come up with a new design that doesnt suck so much, the podium is horrifying!

Totally wrong for this plot, this has got to be moved to a plot that can cope with this size of development, please cancel it and the whole marina will benefit !!!!

The Marina and sorrounds were a sign that Dubai and its Plannning Authority had considered the sustainability and beauty of this unique development - this current proposal would see a significant degredation of quality of the area, the overall attractivness and the asthetic quality will suffer - the "New Dubai" tag will be lost forever - at the risk of sounding trite surely a Green Space would offer greater value - for anyone who has lived in HK or any other developing country the value of getting the development foot-print right now will have its rewards in the future - Emaar should display its commitment to sustainable development and promote itself as a true developer of distinction now by recognising this opportunity as one to distinguish itself as a global leader in not only the biggest and most inovative developers in the region but the best -

This building is an eyesore and will ruin the marina.

I live in Marina Height Tower and I notice that people are always strugling to find a parking in order to enjoy the Marina Walk and all it's facilities. So a good use of this spot will be a parking with some green parts, so it can be a kind of extention of this beautiful project which is the Marina Walk. In my opinion if this project goes on it will take out all the charm of the Marina and make it look like closed area (something like JBR 2), not the open space it is now. So please let the Marina continu being as beautiful as it is now.

What an eysore on a beautiful marina.

My 20 year experience in Town Planning and my role as an executive in several committee's overseas, warrants my comment that this project in its form will not only ruin Marina Walk but will also display the the greed and power hungry attitude of several developers with no vision. Developers who seem to have higher connections and look for status in tall towers rather then design and suitability of an area and surrounding infrastructure. Dubai Marina was one of the pride developments, for Dubai , but a concrete jungle with bad planning seems to be emerging. Bright lights and tall towers do not make a beautiful place. Dubai is good at listing the biggest and best and tallest and widest etc. Now the new terms of the ugliest, worst and dirtiest etc will emerge in the media. Projects like Marina Sky Towers will be the eye sore in front of what will become MARINA POND! Lack of vision and pure lust for money!

This development must not go ahead. It will ruin the entire marina.

make better use of the space and use more greenery. the marina needs more green spaces and less concrete jungle.

Dubai is in the wonderful position of being able to plan cities from scratch. Simply building higher and higher, closer and closer to satisfy the profit motive of companies whilst creating yet another horrible blot on the landscape is, I am sure, not part of the vision of Sheikh Mohammed.

This development will totally ruin the WHOLE Marina area. Completely in the wrong location !

This will ruin the marina.

Its a prime location that deserves an iconic building. MST is plain ugly. Its size is too big and will give local infrasturcture nightmares.

it's disgusting what they are doing, btw i don't live in the area or in the same state but its sick what they are doing.

total disregard for the whole area ! complete montrosity

This area should be kept for a open space, some where to chill and take in the atmosphere, definitely not for 3 supertall ugly skyscrapers. This surely cant go ahead!!! Do not allow this project to go ahead. give us some greenery instead!

This would totally spoil this end of the marina.

The continuation of this project would be a disaster for the marina and would go against all previous planning restrictions placed on all other developments in that area - how could this be allowed to happen?

This project will, in my opinion, completely ruin the quality of life for many thousands of residents and visitors to Dubai Marina. Please do not allow this to happen.

The scale and perspective of Sky Towers would destroy all perspective and line of Marina Walk which has been developing into a well considered head of the Marina. Building on this scale obliterates this concept and a previously great looking area would become a total eyesore. How could any rational and intelligent city planning ever allow this to be approved? Does anyone in Dubai consider the people who have committed to the future and made their lives here? It appears not. Aesthetically, ethically and practically this is a monstrosity. It serves only to benefit developers. Dubai City needs to concentrate on making desirable, well formed and flourishing communities, not creating annonymous faceless ghettos. Time for a serious rethink.

This THREE towers would DESTROY the WHOLE marina. So dear authority please don´t approv this towers..THIS MUST BE STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can anyone remember Spain in the 70's - if you can this Marina is heading the same way.The building of towersmust stop before its to late.If this Monster of a tower is allowed to be build right smack in the front of the Marina then I am sure Dubai will be getting it wrong BIG TIME --

it is destroying the marina project...

HI,JUST MY VIEWS ON MTS.IF MST IS BUILT AROUND THE A5C, D, & E PLOTS, IT WOULD MOST DEFINATELY DESTROY WHAT HAS BEEN GROWING IN TO A BEAUTIFUL AREA OF THE MARINA. FOR MST TO BE BUILT IN IT'S CURRENT FORM ANYWHERE WOULD RUIN IT'S SURROUNDINGS.IN MY VIEW, THE DESIGN OF MST, IF IT CAN BE DESCRIBED AS A DESIGN, IS 100% ABOUT MAKING MONEY FOR THE OWNER(S) OF THE PLOT(S) AT THE EXPENSE OF THOSE WHO HAVE ALREADY PAID PREMIUM PRICES FOR PROMISED VIEWS.

These towers would be an abomination if built. They're both unfriendly, out of scale, and a huge eyesore.

An absolute disgrace if this gets approved. It will show that EMAAR and HRH "vision of the marina" as a quality living area are well and truely dead, planning control now out of control and the whole marina driven by pure greed, with no consideration for those that have bought into "the dream" that was Dubai Marina.

A complete horror of a design.

I'm totally agrre with this petition....it's a wrong project in a wrong place!

I cannot believe that this ghastly tower may be built in Dubai Marina. It will,without doubt, spoil the Marina and surely will go down in history as being one of the most ugliest buildings ever built. Keep signing the petition. we must do everything we can to stop this monstrosity.

Will seriously harm the Marina Walk and North end of the Marina. Towers are too large to put three of them in that space while maintaining smooth logistics, traffic, and aesthetics.

Please sign the petition: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/marinaskytowers/

[Dubai_Steve]

Location 2,3 & 4 on the map:

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/6588/tallestblockme6.jpg

[Dubai_Steve]

Possible pre release (work in progress) render ???

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/5996/ssskm6.jpg

[malec]

Let's hope it's NOT the kebab towers and that they get some decent architect to do these. That podium is not 14 floors high so fingers crossed it won't be them.
I wouldn't be surprised if the design is shit though. The price tag is nothing for these 3 towers.

[Dubai_Steve]

I agree the above design is really terrible and hope it is redesigned!!

Looks like some kind of UGLY kebab factory chimney towers. :puke:

The podium fits perfectly with the plot shape, so must have been a proposal at least.

[Dubai_Steve]

Notice how the tower on the left (in front of TT) is the shortest, 90 floor residential tower. This may be so that the Torch feature on top of TT can be seen and does not shine directly into the apartments in front. :dunno:

[Dubai_Steve]

How many parking floors would you need for almost 300 storeys in total on this plot ? How many of the 14 podium floors would be needed for parking ?

[Dubai_Steve]

Let's hope it's NOT the kebab towers and that they get some decent architect to do these. That podium is not 14 floors high so fingers crossed it won't be them.
I wouldn't be surprised if the design is shit though. The price tag is nothing for these 3 towers.

Lets hope that they did in fact get the plot for free then, as Imre heard on the gravepvine that Skeikh Mohammed gave this plot away to his friend in Abu Dhabi as a gift (probabaly part of DAS). That should cut their costs considerably and allow for a better architect!

[bizzybonita]

How many parking floors would you need for almost 300 storeys in total on this plot ? How many of the 14 podium floors would be needed for parking ?

they need one of these tower only for parking :ohno:

[Omaro]

^^ True :D

[jetsetter]

The project is still in the design stages, and an award for the contract to build the project is expected by the end of this year.


So if construction won't begin until next year will the higher floors of TT enjoy full marina views for a year or 2?

If the middle tower is pushed forward (as shown on the map) there may be a decent gap between towers 2 and 3 (assuming 22 isn't pushed forward). Guess we need to wait until the final design is released

[firoz bharmal]

Possible pre release (work in progress) render ???

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/5996/ssskm6.jpg

Excellent design if its approved .......very nice blue glass structure

[Dubai_Steve]

Are you crazy this is the ugliest tower design I ever saw :bash: It will ruin the marina.

I hope DAS holdings have more sense not to use that one!

[Dubai_Steve]

DAS holdings is mostly owned by a young sheikh who is the son of the interior minister and the grandson of Zayed. If this is the final design then shame on him for allowing such a terrible design and ruining the Dubai Marina.

He received this plot as a gift from Sheikh Mohammed.

[jetsetter]

I'm not convinced this is it unless they change the design. It doesn't have a 14 floor podium and does not look to be 2 x 100 and 1 x 90...

[Zollern]

Sydney forumers may notice the similarity (!) to the Maritime Centre (L) and No 1 York St (R) in the background of the render.
The flock of birds must be a standard feature on architect's software packages as it is used often enough. :lol:

[Dubai_Steve]

I'm not convinced this is it unless they change the design. It doesn't have a 14 floor podium and does not look to be 2 x 100 and 1 x 90...

I counted 100 floors for the central tower and 12 foors for the shared podium. So it is pretty close. They may have added a couple of more floors to the podium for parking requirements.

[Dubai_Steve]

malec, as you are the one who originally posted the render, can you also post the source of the render please ?

[mackie1964]

They got greedy, this started as one podium and one large tower (a famous hotel) but now they are trying to maximise on profit. I have one unit on the 16th floor and this will have no view what so ever because of all fixtures/fittings on the top podium deck.
I will however be able to jump straight into their swimming pool right in the middle of the three towers. :cry: :cry:

[Dubai_Steve]

Yes this design is to maximize profit, it has no style. It is really disgusting. I truely hope this is not the final design.

[malec]

malec, as you are the one who originally posted the render, can you also post the source of the render please ?
I got it from www.evermotion.org
It's just a forum for CGI artists. There was no mention of developer, location, or anything. Was just basically a guy saying "here's my work" and then this render. He also posted some other renders, all looking like projects which could be real (just based on the style of renders) but none actually released with names of a developer.

[THE DUBAI GUYS]

how will the roads cope with ppl in that 100f office and 100F and 90F residential towers with those small roads in that area?? this is just silly...height limits HAVE to be put in place not for flight paths...but for the infrastucture!

R

[Stephan23]

Nice :omg:

The render could be different, hope so. But 2x 100 + 90 floors is awesome!! :okay:

[Dubai_Steve]

how will the roads cope with ppl in that 100f office and 100F and 90F residential towers with those small roads in that area?? this is just silly...height limits HAVE to be put in place not for flight paths...but for the infrastucture!

R

Quite agree with you, the infrastructure can not cope with this. It has been designed for pure greed with total disregard for the area. :bash:

[Gorilla]

dubai_steve you have so much time :)

[Stephan23]

^^ :lol: less 1-2 years :D:D:D:D

[Stone803]

Shame they will be so tall. I almost purchased in The Torch and was going to pay more to face marina. Seems a joke now that marina facing cost more, The two sides were also inflated due to partial views. The only winners I think will be the people that purchased the cheaper apartments on the rear (facing away from marina). The sales team had a harder time shifting these and were doing better deals...

[yecabel]

^^^^
why did u copy/paste the same message in both TT and MST threads?

[GoDubai!]

Well, it certainly adds to the profile of the tallest block. If counted with the podium this will be three more towers above 100 floors. With Pentominium, Princess, Marina 101 we'll now have 6 100+ story towers, plus the super tall Damac tower. Also, I heard that the Palm Hotel/Hard Rock Cafe plot was sold for Dhs 750 million. So, another 100+ story office tower, hotel complex there, I would imagine. Eventually you called have a dozen or so 100 story towers in this area. Parking? Marina Arcade will have 850 stalls, while this Marina complex will probably have 1000 or 2000. Access, congestion issues? Metro, metro, metro!

[Dubai_Steve]

There are also several other 100+ towers planed in this area, in front of the current first line beach towers such as Le Reve, Ocean Heights and also in front of Infinity !

[Imre]

I got yesterday:

Dear Mr. Imre

The development launch has been delayed till mid-end of April.

I will keep you informed for any details

Thank you for your patience

Best Regards

[Nazo_x]

I got yesterday:

Dear Mr. Imre

The development launch has been delayed till mid-end of April.

I will keep you informed for any details

Thank you for your patience

Best Regards


Imre, is Better Homes in charge of selling MST?

[mackie1964]

^^Yes, they are. Exclusively we are told.

Sorry I did not see your PM until this morning. :cheers:

[dubaiskyscrapers]

Awesome News guys!!!
how come you all know these stuff and I don't?
What is the price per square feet?

[True Blue]

Awesome News guys!!!
how come you all know these stuff and I don't?
What is the price per square feet?

We have bugged Dubai Select Offices :)

Not launched yet, end of the month I believe.

[dubaiskyscrapers]

Bugged?!! what do you mean by select offices?
dude, im really interested to purchase an appartment...
coz i believe it would be the best!!!

[dubaiskyscrapers]

I just called Das and they informed that they don't have any idea about this project...

[Nazo_x]

Thanks Mackie, I've asked a freind at Better Homes to look into the lauch date and hopefully he'll be getting back to me by tomorrow, didn't you mention you had an apartment on the 16th floor? Or were you referring to TT?

[Dubai_Steve]

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/786/img2843es1.jpg

[Dubai_Steve]

^^ A 14 storey podium will look huge.

[GoDubai!]

Great picture--puts everything into perspective. A fourteen-story podium most likely means several underground and some above. So, you might have 6 underground and 8 above. You will hardly notice the podium if it is done in a manner similar to the Phase 1 development, where the podium is terraced, lined with ground floor establishments and landscaped.

What is interesting is that the podium will add several more floors to the total height of the towers. We could end up with all three towers being over 100 floors with the two taller ones nearing 110. This project will be more massive than the New York World Trade Center project was. Right at our very own doorsteps!

[GoDubai!]

Possible pre release (work in progress) render ???

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/5996/ssskm6.jpg

If this is the real deal, notice how the towers are angled. They are also rather clumped together. It would seem that both Marina Heights and the Torch would still get partial Marina views--more so Marina Heights.

The towers each seem to consist of three tubular sections joined at center. More than anything, each of the towers own views will be compromised by the nearness of other towers and tubes. On the other hand, the angular positioning would seem to maximize Marina views.

The podium here is also clearly not terraced, appears to rise about 8 floors above ground and is not lined by ground floor shops. That said, it doesn't look massive considering the towers rising above it.

The only thing odd about this design is that it leaves a lot of open plot space on either side of the complex. Wonder how this will be utilized. There could be space left for a tower on either side to even more thoroughly block Torch and MH views.

[Tractor]

This still doesn't add up for me ... Emaar will not only ruin their own Phase I development but will have every customer that bought land from them in this area complaining (OK, so they might not care).

But there is also the huge & expensive challenge building something so large right next to the water's edge (take Infinity and increase the size of the problem by 3+).

[malec]

One more reason why I don't think the kebab towers are the ones is we have 2 residential and 1 commercial towers which should look different. You'd expect the res towers to have smaller floor heights and balconies.

[SUR]

Even with these towers sitting on the edge of the marina you probably still wont be guaranteed a marina view...I mean just look at all the wasted space taken up by the water which could easily be reduced in width and more towers thrown in front.

This space would have been ideal as a recreation area, perhaps a park.

[The-King]

wow really amazing and unique design! They will be a good addition to the marina, can't wait to se them rising.

[Dubai_Steve]

^^ :weird:

[Citystyle]

^^ :weird:

Lame but lame is good for dubai.

[DUBAI]

I like them, i hope they use an all glass design like that, the contrast looks good; similar to jbr and al futtaim.

I can understand all the criticism from people living in the torch, MH et al. but provided they blend the podium in well it could look realy good.

[High Times]

If malecs render is destined for this plot then it will look like this.

If the 14 floor podium is centrally placed on the plot then it wont block the Torch totaly and most marina facing units will certainly retain some kind of marina view.

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/9697/marinaskytowers2bc7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[DUBAI]

you need to rotate it the render is taken from an angle.

line up the 'bulge' in the marina at the right of the render, with the 'bulge' to the left of phase 1 from this perspective.

[High Times]

^^

No not really that would distort the true perspective.

The render is taken as full frontal as is the photo.

The probelm is that the render does not follow the exact curvature of the marina walk/wall.

My picture is only intended to show how the towers will look on the plot in relation to whats around it, not how the rendered podium fits in respect of the existing marina's edge.

I could warp/distort the inlay to fit the marina walk/wall perfectly but it would twist the towers out of perspective in relation to the Torch/Phase 1 which would defeat the object of what i was trying to do.

[DUBAI]

I think the perspective of the render is from the side of the marina, not the middle, that way all three towers will be on the water with no gap in front.

[High Times]

Mmmmmm interesting.

I see what your saying, not sure i agree but if what your saying is right and this is the correct design for this plot then it will be great news for the Torch as the whole development will be positioned more in front of Marina Heights and away from the Torch even more than shown above.

I hope you are right. :)

[scoot68]

I think this bay matches...
http://i31.tinypic.com/1ok93b.jpg

[AltinD]

You guys are right about the render, but that doesn't mean that the space in front of the Torch will be left empty, and nothing will be build there. :runaway:



... but you can still hope that the 2 x 28F towers from BMG would be build there, while Swaroswki Tower can go in between TT and MH.


Problem solved, everyone happy. :banana:

[Rider]

With respect to my fellow forumers, I'm very surprised that so many people are thinking that the kebab factory is the 'likely' option to be built here.

Perhaps it's because we have no other leads but I for one will be very surprised if this design is confirmed mid April.

[GoDubai!]

A modified version of the Kebab Towers appears on Das Holdings homepage (http://www.dasholding.ae/home.html). This version looks better--less like the industrial tube style in the original render. But it has an even more substantial profile.

[High Times]

^^

Yes i agree,

i would also add that one of the taller towers seems to be placed behined one of the other shorter towers as opposed to all three being in-line.

[AltinD]

screenshot

http://i28.tinypic.com/2h2gy6q.jpg

[Dubai_Steve]

We were correct, kebab towers v2.0 it is!

Gap between the towers looks very small!

[malec]

Holy shit! Can't believe the kebab towers were the right ones. They're really shooting themselves in the foot though, they're blocking out their own views! They look just as fugly and industrial to me though.

[Dubai_Steve]

Do they look closer together than before ? I really wonder how wide they will be on the plot and if there will be room for any view from the Torch and Marina Heights. I don't think there is any chance of a view between the towers from TT and MH. If they take the entire plot width up then they may as well have built a 100 storey brick wall.

[malec]

You might get a tiny glimpse of light from the torch. From marina heights you'd be looking again through a similar gap but would have infinity tower in the way then.

http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/2632/skyjc2.jpg

[Dubai_Steve]

i would also add that one of the taller towers seems to be placed behind one of the other shorter towers as opposed to all three being in-line.

The shorter 90 storey tower is in the centre. If you look at the location map from better homes, who are marketing this, you can see that the podium shape is semi-circular to allow access space at the back. So the central tower will likely be pushed forward towards the marina edge.

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/6910/skytowerswp6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[agod]

No one in there right mind, would stick up three towers, on the best plot in the Marina, without all three getting full Marina views, still this is Dubai, and as we know anything can happen, I am not convinced this is what we are getting.

Alan

p.s. IMRE..Can you guess my avatars location?

[Dubai_Steve]

^^ Be convinced, it is the truth. :yes:

[Dubai_Steve]

Larger version of the Marina Sky Towers plot.

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/3060/plotpl6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[scoot68]

There may be a little construction noise...

[AltinD]

Guys, once again: The render suggest that the complex is only half-way in front of The Torch and DOES NOT block straight forward views of the Marina from the tower. As it looks now, that "honour" might be of another tower (or complex) build paralel to to the road, facing Emirates Crown and Harbour Hotel

[malec]

^^ How is that? To me it looks like it goes up to where that white fence is. Beyond that will just be road

[nathan.bennett]

Post Removed

[malec]

^^ If you're specialising in this project can you give us some more details about these buildings? Any more renders? etc...

[AltinD]

^^ How is that? To me it looks like it goes up to where that white fence is. Beyond that will just be road

I see it like this:

http://i27.tinypic.com/xb9ycj.jpg

... maybe I'm wrong, maybe not

[malec]

Oh and also, and is 100, 100 and 90 stories above the 14-storey podium or does that include the podium? As well, if you have the height of these towers it would be great! Thanks :)

[Dubai_Steve]

There may be a little construction noise...

yes probably 5 years worth :(

[Dubai_Steve]

I see it like this:

http://i27.tinypic.com/xb9ycj.jpg

... maybe I'm wrong, maybe not

I think you are wrong and it will be centrally placed in the plot taking the full width up to the white fence.

[High Times]

I think you are wrong and it will be centrally placed in the plot taking the full width up to the white fence.

I agree with myself and Altin as both renders suggest this type of staggered positioning.

[High Times]

Holy shit! Can't believe the kebab towers were the right ones. They're really shooting themselves in the foot though, they're blocking out their own views! They look just as fugly and industrial to me though.

Well if these towers do sell out at AED 2000+ psf then maybe people will start to realise that views dont mean shit when it comes to values, (as i have said many times before), they are a nice addition to a property, but not a fundamental of value in a mature market.

[Dubai_Steve]

I agree with myself.

:lol: I think it is just the angle but we will have to wait and see.

[scoot68]

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/6910/skytowerswp6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)[/QUOTE]

I'm backing full plot :)

[Yousuf27]

Well if these towers do sell out at AED 2000+ psf then maybe people will start to realise that views dont mean shit when it comes to values, (as i have said many times before), they are a nice addition to a property, but not a fundamental of value in a mature market.

HT - you wrote some time back about the original ideals of the Marina Lifestyle having been forgotten long ago and how now it's just a matter of how many $$$$'s can be generated from whatever space is available for construction. I have to say that having visited the area for the first time the other day - I agree with you wholeheartedly. They have really lost the plot here! I'm not bothered about views as my Torch apartment never had any anyway, but when you look at Phase One and the relatively spacious and low waterfront area and then look at what will be left once the the waterfront at the Tallest Block is filled with these 3 towers and their massive conjoined podium you can see that Phase One was never a vision of a "waterfront lifestyle" which was continue throughout the marina. That upper part of the marina already feels claustraphobic. Don't get me wrong - what I saw was awesome, amazing, and I have no regrets whatsoever regarding my purchase. The point I make is that when I bought I had imagined I might like to live there; - but now it's just an investment. Like the developers I just want to make a few bucks, but I'll live somewhere else thanks very much.

[mackie1964]

@ HT & Steve; What are you talking about? They are designed like that to maximise on the views.

Views are extremely important :bash::bash:

And we will get none, the gaps will be cancelled by the angle of the towers. :cry::cry::cry::cry:

[GoDubai!]

Only his second post and the salesman has told a lie already...

He's just telling it like it is. One man's loss is another man's gain. Clearly a multitude of new owners will have great views. This project affords the chance for many times more people to get these views than were available with the Torch and Marina Heights. And this time, purchasers can be absolutely sure that thier views won't be compromised. This isn't like sea frontage which could get reclaimed. There is no way the marina canal itself here would get reduced in size. Present Torch owners could always put their units up for sale. There will probably be takers, as people will need homes long before these new towers are ready.

IMO, the new towers are a better design, so if you have to stare at another tower, it might as well be sleek glass ones, like these. I think they will be positioned to offer maximum frontage to each tower. It would be nice to know whether in fact this project will occupy the entire plot or just a portiion of it. That original podium design would suggest only a portion of the plot. If the full plot then perhaps there would be a nice roadway/entryway placed between MH and the Torch, instead of another tower. The access points will have to be cleverly designed here. If all traffic is forced to pass around MH as at present, it will be a logistics nightmare.

[High Times]

Guys, once again: The render suggest that the complex is only half-way in front of The Torch and DOES NOT block straight forward views of the Marina from the tower. As it looks now, that "honour" might be of another tower (or complex) build paralel to to the road, facing Emirates Crown and Harbour Hotel

The reason i agree with myself :lol: , and Altin, is that the original Emaar masterplan was designed to ensure an astheticaly pleasing and viable community masterplanned development. Now whilst it may not have been followed to the letter i think Emaar have basicaly delivered what is on the whole picture released as they have overseen all projects with this in mind.

http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/5361/marinamasterplancompletiz0.jpg[/

When you look at what is "masterplanned" for this plot it does look like a massive podium obviously higher than the normal podiums in the area, with a large flat tall tower or towers infront of Marina Heights. The podium is clearly positioned away from Emirates Harbour Hotel, and therefore the Torch too.

This basic design kind of fits into what is being proposed other than instead of 1 big flat looking tower it is now 3 thinner tubular towers. Maybe the reason they are so tall is that they have to be in order to be profitable as they have been made to be positioned in this way as a compromise by Emaar.

Ultimately final say would still be with Emaar as to what goes here and ultimately that is the big man Sheik Mo. I also assume that Emirates Harbour Hotel (owned by Emirates Group) is ultimately owned by Sheik Mo/or one with equaly high influence.

Maybe he didn't want to compromise the outlook of this flagship hotel by having it dwarfed by a 100fl tower within pissing distance.

Just an idea.

[Dubai_Steve]

^^ You are dreaming, the sky towers are very wide and will have to use the entire plot width.

I think the render above is based on the original Emaar plan before Sheikh Mo gave it away to DAS :bash:

[mackie1964]

^^Are you sure you don't work for DS/SG :lol: :banana:

They got the plot for free, they will make money what ever they build here.

[Dubai_Steve]

I also believe HT works for DS/SG. :D

[High Times]

Shit I've been rumbled :ohno:

[Tractor]

There is no way these three towers can fit all on the waterfront without using the entire plot ... sorry, but its just not realistic. Grasping at straws from poor images we don't know the age or origin of!

[shaffar]

^^ You are dreaming, the sky towers are very wide and will have to use the entire plot width.

I think the render above is based on the original Emaar plan before Sheikh Mo gave it away to DAS :bash:


Completely agree, no one likes to buy an apartment 200 meters up and be so close to the next building.

They WILL use the whole plot .

[Rider]

Things have been quiet here for a while.

Has anyone heard why the supposed mid-April announcement hasn't happened yet?

[Dubai_Steve]

^^ redesign, because malec called it Fugly :lol: :dunno:

[malec]

^^ Let's hope so :)

News should have been out by now.

[High Times]

I think the date this thread was started tells you all you need to know.

[Julito-dubai]

http://www.selectproperty.com/invest/dubai/

gives us now a project called "aquitania" so this one cannot be the same...

any ideas about this one?

[Dubai_Steve]

^^ Aquitainia will be on the world islands.

[scoot68]

http://i28.tinypic.com/33o2jqa.jpg

[Imre]

got yesterday:

Dear Sir / Madam



I would like to thank you for your patience and interest in our new development at Dubai Marina and I would really apologize for the delay.



Finally the project will be revealed on the 13th of May 2008 at Abu Dhabi City Escape.



Thank you once again for you patience



Looking forward to hearing from you



Best Regards

[mackie1964]

Imre;

Can you get hold of a ticket for me?

[Dubai_Steve]

^^ why do you want a ticket, are you go to be buying there :bash: :lol:

Exciting, I hope Imre will be there taking photos!

[Imre]

Mackie!
no need ticket, just bring your business card and you can make a registration free.
hopefully,we are going there on 13th of May.

[mackie1964]

^^ why do you want a ticket, are you go to be buying there :bash: :lol:

Exciting, I hope Imre will be there taking photos!

I've got to get this F****G Marina view somehow :banana:

[Dubai_Steve]

^^ :bash:

Maybe ok for flipping if your first in but not sure I want to buy there to keep. 5 years in construction and launch prices at least 3000 psf = bad investment.

[mackie1964]

It will be much cheaper than that for some of the units :)

[Dubai_Steve]

Maybe the Torch facing ones :lol:

[mackie1964]

I better do some work or I will not be going any where, I am hoping to fly to Dubai very soon, expect some photos :cheers:

[smshah]

strange that either bhomes (better homes) or das holding is not on the exhibitor list at the cityscape abu dhabi exhibition!

[Tractor]

Soil testing has not (yet) been conducted in the space between TT and MH ... only on the area in front of them by the water side ...

http://docs.google.com/File?id=d5rhnmx_49xz6tcnd4_b

[jetsetter]

I visited the site yesterday and there was some bits of equipment sitting in front of MH which now seem to be in front of TT (assuming this photo was taken after my visit yesterday afternoon).

I asked one of the workers what was planned for the plot just to see if it tied in with the photo on DAS website. He acknowledged that DAS were involved but told me there would be one building in front of MH, one in front of TT with some kind of waterway running in between. I can only assume he'd been smoking some of the wacky stuff while on his break...

[mackie1964]

^^ A Water Park....................Yepeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

I love DS/SG and DAS, My views are guaranteed after all. :banana::banana:

[Dubai_Steve]

I think the waterway would look nicer if it was in front of the Torch rather than between MH & TT :D

[mackie1964]

Some people are just ungrateful :bash::bash:

[Dubai_Steve]

:lol: What is this waterway thing anyway. That would mean cutting into the land and making a channel for boats to dock inside the 14 storey lobby.

Maybe like Tameer tower in Abu Dhabi

http://www.worldarchitecturenews.com/news_images/1777_3_1000%20Gensler%203.jpg

[Blizzy]

Lol, Infinity Tower should have used that trick after the accident :D

[AltinD]

N7mC6CLpn2I

[jetsetter]

:lol: What is this waterway thing anyway. That would mean cutting into the land and making a channel for boats to dock inside the 14 storey lobby.


Yes I think the suggestion is somewhat laughable. However, just passing on what I was told - if only for the comedy value.

The guy told me that there would be one building in front of both TT and MH with water running in between the two.

Here's a thought though, if the grand unveiling is actually happening on 13 May - would plastering the new development on DAS's homepage not mean that there's nothing really to unveil?

[mackie1964]

Waterways, Mountains & snow. My view is just getting better and better :)

Marina Sky Towers, one of the most exclusive residential and commercial developments in Dubai Marina is being unveiled at Cityscape Abu Dhabi. Featuring an array of amenities in a modern, lifestyle-focused community, Marina Sky Towers offers the best depth and breath of modern urban living. To find out more, please visit our stand.

Visit us at Cityscape 2008, Abu Dhabi.
Stall No: 5C10
+971 4 303 9407
marinaskytowers@bhomes.com

http://i25.tinypic.com/35kkf3s.jpg

[Pete 1983]

is there any more information you have on this?

[foxy]

"Discover 3 new ways"... now there's a clue.

[mackie1964]

During the Cityscape exhibition, there will be no sales or prices, only the model.

The launch will be in two/three weeks time.

[Naz UK]

During the Cityscape exhibition, there will be no sales or prices, only the model.

So much like the Miss World beauty pageant then.

[mackie1964]

:lol: You are funny

[High Times]

During the Cityscape exhibition, there will be no sales or prices, only the model.

The launch will be in two/three weeks time.

Great timing, I will be in Dubai for the launch, better take my Amex platinum card.

I imagine not all towers will have Marina facing views. If this i sthe case i wonder how much the tower facing units will be selling for?

[Dubai_Steve]

This tower will have a lot of facilities so not exactly correct to compare the Torch facing price with the Torch on a per sq ft basis. We need to see what facilities and quality there will be for owners first. One advantage of the Torch is that it has an Atlantis view from the hot tub :cheers: Torch resale is currently at around 1600 psf for Sky Towers facing units. Also remember the Torch will be complete many years before sky towers and will have an uninterrupted marina view for 1 or 2 years.

[foxy]

Am I right in thinkng

More facilties = higher maintenance charge

[Josau]

.....Also remember the Torch will be complete many years before sky towers and will have an uninterrupted marina view for 1 or 2 years.
.......and will have a construction site=noise right in front of their windows for years. Unfortunately more and more people wanting to rent out their flats meet resistance from potential tenants because of construction being too close to the flat.

[cugeneva]

Am I right in thinkng

More facilties = higher maintenance charge

You got it..... spot on..... only a tower for the super rich who can't afford a place on The World :lol::lol::lol:

[Dubai_Steve]

.......and will have a construction site=noise right in front of their windows for years. Unfortunately more and more people wanting to rent out their flats meet resistance from potential tenants because of construction being too close to the flat.

Marina Heights rents OK and I am sure Emirate Harbour Hotel will continue to do so also.

Can charge double rent for construction enthusiasts :)

[jetsetter]

.......and will have a construction site=noise right in front of their windows for years. Unfortunately more and more people wanting to rent out their flats meet resistance from potential tenants because of construction being too close to the flat.

Not too many places in Dubai where there isn't construction going on close by.

To show that I'm a caring landlord, I'll be throwing in some complimentary earplugs for my future tenants as part of the deal. :banana:

[foxy]

Keep an eye on the car park spaces for the commercial building. car parking spaces in the neighbouring buildings may have their own intrinsic value :banana:.

[jetsetter]

Taken on 6th May - thought I'd sneak these in before the flurry of Cityscape posts...

http://i29.tinypic.com/sebzur.jpg


http://i30.tinypic.com/25649qu.jpg


http://i27.tinypic.com/f9h0rp.jpg


http://i26.tinypic.com/s24k14.jpg

[Tractor]

Wasn't this launched today? No news/photos/prices?

[High Times]

The soil is so weak and bog like here that it is only possible to build a low rise bamboo shed providing that no furniture is ever stored on the second floor.

[High Times]

The soil is so weak and bog like here that it is only possible to build a low rise bamboo shed providing that no furniture is ever stored on the second floor.

[Naz UK]

What's the soil like here?

[Imre]

sorry for the Torch and MH owners but this is a huge complex...

13/May/2008

Marina Sky Towers

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/9434/imresolt144dq3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/70/imresolt145pt7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/6923/imresolt147qt4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img105.imageshack.us/img105/1781/imresolt148an5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/2069/imresolt150vh1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/824/imresolt152dy2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/3032/imresolt153mq7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[A.U.S. arch. Student]

putrid podium, lack of imagination in design, density is insane btw the buildings, what a waste of such prime property.
And why the hell is there a road facing the marina!

[scoot68]

And they've decided to put a 4 lane road around the marina ") Really ugly development regardless where it is.

[Imre]

13/May/2008

Marina Sky Towers

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/3699/imresolt234co6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/9339/imresolt235dq0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[scoot68]

http://i31.tinypic.com/2gvuel3.jpg

stunning

[LoverOfDubai]

It is too big. Modesty must not be a word used by this architect.

[foxy]

You know I thought it was an April fools joke. Sorry I doubted. Hope somebody sees some sence. :ohno:

[dirtyharry1]

My God! I just saw the prospected towers! This is really a nightmare for the marina... and especially for the tenants in Marina Heights etc... For more than 1 year no one can open a window there because of the noise level day and night and now they are building these monster towers... another jobsite for years... poor Marina...and poor people living there watching the excavators... This city keeps on going banana and turing to the ugliest jobsite on this planet.

[Imre]

more then 1 year noise??

I would say , minimum 4-5 years..this is a huge complex , it needs time..

[dirtyharry1]

yeah, I mean, since last year they have already the noise problem...:bash:
and this new site will multiple it... and the marina views are also gone... Thanks God, that I will move out this year...

[scoot68]

I have an idea...everytime they dig...marina residents can fill it in again during teabreak :lol:

[malec]

Just counted the floors. This is:
G+14+104
G+14+104
G+14+90

[dirtyharry1]

I have a better idea... simply close the Marina completely and call the people back upon completion... if they are still alive... I always admire the people that pay so much rent to live in this shit...

[Morten_Denmark]

Building noise is one thing - I think the biggest problem here will be traffic. Too many people....

[Tractor]

I think Emaar's reputation will be irreparably harmed if they permit this monstrosity to go ahead.

Marina Walk & Phase I = ruined
Overall look of 'downtown' Marina = inconsistent and messy
Traffic & parking = 10 times worse
TT & MH investors = seriously unhappy & in its shadow from around 1pm onwards
Helipads = great way to piss residents off even more

All in all, one of the worst proposals I have seen in Dubai. Mind you, they got away with doubling the density of Palm Jumeirah so maybe they can get away with this too...

[Citystyle]

Fix the podium design and reduce it's height by 50% and delete the middle tower and it would actually look sexy.

[bizzybonita]

Welcome home MARINA SKY TOWERS (SILVER KABAB TOWERS) :clown:

[Josau]

So much for this part of the Marina. I am sorry for the residents and the businesses on this side, shops, restaurants etc. All of a sudden the center of the Marina or the so called a... end seems a better option. They can look at this thing from a distance and I bet it will look pretty cool from afar.

[The-King]

what a huge development! The number of floors is incredible! But in my opinion it is in the wrong location because it don't fits in the marina. It is ways to high for this area of the marina and much to dense, would look terrible within the marina, maybe they should relocate it to somewhere else, maybe Dubai Waterfront!

[High Times]

I agree,

This is just pure greed from the top of Dubai all the way down.

Yes there will be people who will buy this, but the so called masterplanned Marina suffers as a whole development.

Whoever made the decision to say "yes this can be built here" has no vision whatsoever.

It's just all about the money now.

[jeetha]

I rang Das holding today, there will be no studios here.

[arfie]

I rang Das holding today, there will be no studios here.

Whats the price PSF for the apartments ?

[jetsetter]

The podium is utterly hideous. If I had a berth in front of that thing I'd severly annoyed with a huge shadow and 4 lanes of traffic just yards away...

The models show no walkway whatsoever - only roads - WTF

[dirtyharry1]

Regarding the traffic nightmare that this bloody stupid development will cause, I doubt very much that all future residents will come and go by helicopter... or is one each included in the prices of the appartments? Projects like that make Dubai more and more totally unattraticve unless someone likes living on a 24/7 mega-construction site.

And they are ruining the "oldest" part of the Marina which could have been a nice and unique place.

[jeetha]

Whats the price PSF for the apartments ?

No prices yet. But I presume it will be pretty high.

[Tractor]

If this is what happens when Better Homes advise on a project, they ought to be banned from ever doing so again!

[foxy]

I can't believe that the authorities are this stupid. It has disaster written all over it.

The location of the plot deserves an iconic building.
The sheer size means that there will be no blending with the surrounding buildings.
There will be gridlock due to the traffic.
The contruction noise will please no one in the surounding buildings.

So for me the blame goes on the people who approved this.

[bizzybonita]

Stupid project in wrong location ... look like the unverise project but in other way ... WEST IS BETTER ;)

[Naz UK]

Time to start a petition. Get this project banned, or downsized, or moved to Kuala Lumpur.

[High Times]

I can't believe that the authorities are this stupid. It has disaster written all over it.

The location of the plot deserves an iconic building.
The sheer size means that there will be no blending with the surrounding buildings.
There will be gridlock due to the traffic.
The contruction noise will please no one in the surounding buildings.

So for me the blame goes on the people who approved this.

Absolutely right,

It doesnt matter how well the traffic situation is managed within the car parking levels.

Its the surounding roads that cant cope. The roads around the tallest block just wont cope with the volume of traffic that will be using it. No matter how many trams and metro stops you have people will still prefer to use their cars. Especialy in a country where bottled water is more expensive than car fuel.

I know Dubai is the land of the CAN DO but serious mistakes are starting to be made in the planning side of this vision.

[CIPUS]

Terrible project. It will ruin all the tallest block.

[Naz UK]

If we all join forces and stand behind it when its built, we'll hopefully be able to push it into the Marina. I'm all for projects that are going to up the value of property at this end, but this project is ugly and stupid. And no one in their right mind would ever need 14 stories of podium. WTF are they gona fill them with? Commercial offices? Is the Pentagon relocating to Dubai?

[scoot68]

I believe the podium is all parking. They prob don't want to excavate too deeply in order to avoid Marina wall collapse again. To me it's the podium that is the biggest eyesore. It should be buried so it matches all the other podium heights around it.

[jetsetter]

I was considering buying another apartment in the marina but don't think I'll bother now that marina walk will be ruined. Cannot get over how hideous that podium is and the 4 lanes right next to the marina.

Think I'll look at Business Bay or JLT instead....or maybe even Abu Dhabi

[High Times]

The roads on the model have no relation to marina walk. The 4 lane road wont be there. This is where marina walk will be.

Its the overall scale of the development that has the impact on whats there allready, thats what does the damage in my opinion.

A development of this size/scale needs space around it for it to become one with it's enviroment, like Burj Dubai is the centerpiece of the area around it.

I would have thought this was chapter 1 in the "how to be an architect manual".

Shame on you EMAAR.

[Anjam]

I suppose this is where term "Waste of Space" is coined from. I think the general feeling from everyone (not just the Torch owners) is that this really is fugly piece of architecture. It might look "ok" in the model with a 4 lane super highway around it but try to picture it on the plot and it will look a complete misfit.
It's not just the looks but the overall effect it will have on the surrounding area. It will overshadow just about everything in the vicinity.

One day Channel 5 will make a program called "Top 50 Design Blunders" and this will be right up there.

[Stephan23]

Wowowowowowowow!!!!

119+105+119 :nuts: I'm going crazy!!!! :doh: :D

[malec]

^^ I recon this was designed by the developers themselves as opposed to hiring architects. I say this because I know it happens in Ireland sometimes, especially with suburban housing where just a basic design is needed so it's entirely possible.
Architects these days constantly go on about public spaces, working with the surroundings, etc. Yet I couldn't imagine anyone with a bit of common sense coming up with this. For example, where are the people who work in the office tower supposed to go for lunch? How the hell are they supposed to get out of the building at the same time when the entrance will be directly on the road like that with a tiny footpath probably?
Since the whole complex is butt ugly people will want to leave asap which will mean even more people coming out at lunch time, etc.

[High Times]

^^

Interesting,

I think the asthetics can be debated for ever and a day as what looks pretty is purely subjective.

But how a building works with it's suroundings is all about facts and figures. As you say Malec, the sheer numbers of people/cars/movement that three towers of this size will generate will create problems here.

I just dont understand how Emaar can be so stupid to let this go ahead and ruin this end of the Marina completely.

Did someone forget to ask Sheik Mo what he thinks ?

This is a worse idea than The Universe, and that was terrible.

[GoDubai!]

I saw at a small booth at the Abu Dhabi Expo that this project was pictured by the company Bayati/Binona Architects. Did a google search and found that Bayati is an Abu Dhabi architect which does 2-storey villas!

Actually, this project is totally Abu Dhabi. Even towers with iconic designs are built flush on plots with zero consideration of the surroundings. You can find in newer areas of AD huge tower blocks hidden in the midst of surrounding tower blocks, with the walls and windows of one building as little as 3 or 4 meters from the next building. Similarly there are some incredibly beautiful modern iconic buildings all over Abu Dhabi which are almost impossible to view because of how they are placed on their plots.

These towers are Abu Dhabi meets Dubai--a losing proposition.

[thetorch]

No comment

[High Times]

http://www.sheikhmohammed.ae/vgn-ext-templating/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=4f455c1090cc4110VgnVCM1000007064a8c0RCRD

[jeetha]

Knew from the start SP/DP were con artist.
I do wish they will change these 3 Coca-Cola giant cans design.

[malec]

This is a totally ugly idea that will completely ruin this side of the marina, completely over load already breaking capacities of infrastructure and so be strongly fought from going ahead, to the highest levels within Dubai.

This is estate mis-management of the highest order and all current residents and owners of apartments in this area should be forming a legal action case rejecting this project as being totally out of keeping and likely to cause severe infrastructure problems for existing residents.

Seriously hacked off with the whole episode and has ruined all plans to live over there permanently.

I so regret buying anything in Dubai and never would again. This sort of decision is going to start a selling spree within the marina area, as clearly, EMAAR don't have a f'ing clue what they are doing.
But Emaar couldn't care less, they've already made their money so it doesn't matter to them :).

Anyway, I feel sorry for you guys that invested in something which, well, will not be the same at all.

[Dubai_Steve]

I have lost all respect for Sheikh Mo. :no:

[Dubai_Steve]

Time to start a petition. Get this project banned, or downsized, or moved to Kuala Lumpur.

Naz, I hope to see an article from your team shortly. This makes the DAMAC palm springs story fall into insignificance. The marina is ruined.

[Dubai_Steve]

I so regret buying anything in Dubai and never would again. This sort of decision is going to start a selling spree within the marina area.

I agree, I give up with Dubai and have decided not to live in the marina now.

[Dubai_Steve]

I just dont understand how Emaar can be so stupid to let this go ahead and ruin this end of the Marina completely.

Did someone forget to ask Sheik Mo what he thinks ?

This is a worse idea than The Universe, and that was terrible.

This is under Sheik Mo's direction not Emaar. I suggest everyone emails him to tell him what a mistake this is.

http://www.sheikhmohammed.ae/vgn-ext-templating/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=4f455c1090cc4110VgnVCM1000007064a8c0RCRD

[Woozy]

The least they could do is get rid of or shrink that massive monstrosity that is the podium. It would still look out of place not nearly as bad.

[LoverOfDubai]

http://www.sheikhmohammed.ae/vgn-ext-templating/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=4f455c1090cc4110VgnVCM1000007064a8c0RCRD

I have lost all respect for Sheikh Mo. :no:

This is under Sheik Mo's direction not Emaar. I suggest everyone emails him to tell him what a mistake this is.

http://www.sheikhmohammed.ae/vgn-ext-templating/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=4f455c1090cc4110VgnVCM1000007064a8c0RCRD

Does Sheikh Mohammed really approve every single building, road, and tree in the emirate? If he does have that much control, then I would not be surprised if he makes a ruling that expands the 24 hour day to a total of 30 hours. There are not enough hours in the day for him to go through every little thing in Dubai.

[Dubai_Steve]

You misunderstood. Sheihk Mo personally obtained this Emaar plot from Emaar (who had to give up their original plans under his direction) in order to give it to his Sheik friend in Abu Dhabi at DAS holding who produced the sky towers. So Sheikh Mo is directly reponsible for this. This is why I no longer have respect for him.

[LoverOfDubai]

Okay, thank you for the clarification. That makes sense, sort of. Sheikh Mohammed only gave the land away, he had nothing to do with the design of the area or the towers. But, if he was allowed provide input and then endorsed the design, you are okay in puting some of the responsibility on his shoulders.

[Omaro]

Nasty podium, total eye-sore... Was expecting something more iconic when I heard about it, but the design is quite disappointing... I don't think these roads will exist (Just for the model and the exhibition), and I doubt the helipads will stay either, costly and hardly used

[scoot68]

I wrote a short note suggesting a reconsideration of podium to Shk Mo. Everybody else please do too. :)

[scoot68]

Anybody know the online community addy for phase 1?

[Mavekris]

^^Even though i dont have any investment in marina:)

I too have sent a message to Highness.


can every one do the same please :)

[foxy]

Just did it. took no time at all.

[Naz UK]

Naz, I hope to see an article from your team shortly. This makes the DAMAC palm springs story fall into insignificance. The marina is ruined.

Yes. Too right.

We can start a petition, and I'm serious. To start with, I'm gona prepare a press release and we need to think of a name e.g. "West Marina Residents and Owners Association", raising our concerns for the potential damage the current design will do. Any pointers as to things to include, please list them here. I have the support from my people. All I need now are others here to come forward with ideas and support.

Cheers

[Tractor]

Good luck guys, seriously, I hope 'people power' makes a difference!

Suggest trying to get non-UAE papers/etc. interested in the story as UAE media is somewhat controlled/censored. The big man won't allow local papers to be negative about something he was so involved in. However, if there is bad international press they will be forced to respond as they won't want future investors put off or to be embarrassed on the international stage.

Need to start an online petition to try and get some big numbers signing it!

[ariastar]

it is not aright way of complaining ,please use another words to express your obejection to that project.:ohno: For Dubai Steve

[buster007]

Good luck guys ... Its worth a try and hope your emails get read or at least brought to he's attention.

Personally, the Dubai Marina in my opinion has lost its appeal as a desirable place to live. Dubai Promenade development, Infinity Tower, Park Island, the JBR cluster of apartments + others and now the MSky towers on the West side of the Marina = Chaos in the making .... Too many people ... existing roads inadequate to cope with the vast number of potential residents + visitors ... 5-6 more years before the region is construction free.

[malec]

I don't think these roads will exist (Just for the model and the exhibition)
Just part of the model yes, but I wouldn't be surprised if they have to do that eventually.

[malec]

In fairness I'd be less concerned about the views and more concerned about being able to exit your building at 9am and 5pm.

Also they're supposed to build the tram on the road behind this building, where will it go?

BTW I just started work on a 3D model :)

[Sheltie]

DUBAI STEVE
Can you put Sheikh Mo's e mail address on The Torch thread and maybe some of the other ones in that area.

NAZ UK
Petition is a good idea.

[jeffers]

Message sent to http://www.sheikhmohammed.ae/vgn-ext...007064a8c0RCRD on this subject... This development is totally out of touch with this area... I will feel like a cave dweller in my Torch apps now !!!! I am 1 upset Torch investor and I was sold on the idea of the Emaar Height restrictions in place on this Plot.. Even from my Unit on the higher floor, I guess I can only hope to see Grosvenor House at night through a little tiny gap now if I am lucky !!!

[Sheltie]

I've also sent an email

[jetsetter]

Have also emailed him telling that my dream of living at the marina has all but disappeared and that the marina in general will suffer dramatically as a result of the Doner Sky Towers.

Might we worthwhile if we use the same/similar subject header in the email to increase emphasis.

I simply used "Marina Sky Towers" but perhaps we can use something more powerful or hard-hitting?...

[GoDubai!]

This is good--the talk of grass roots campaigning. It worked for Palm Springs, why not on this? That plot has to be used for something special, like the Marina Arcade plot which thankfully is being developed in a very appropriate manner. If there is going to be anything huge on this plot, it has to at least be terraced in some way to blend in to the Marina environment.

The fact is, there is nothing in all of the Marina, not even JBR, which so blatantly disregards the surroundings in an attempt to get maximum square footage for profits. It is simply incredulous that someone who didn't even pay for the plot of land (if the rumors are true) would be so audacious as to erect structures creating the highest density (in floor space on a single plot of land) in not only all of the UAE, but very likely all of the world. It speaks of the most incredible level of greed and contempt for anyone or anything else.

[dubaiflo]

I will speak to someone from 7days about this.

[arfie]

Spoke to the developer DAS and asked them if extra lanes of road will be built on the side of the tower as in the model 4*4 lanes. They said no thats just how the model was done the road infrastructure is nothing to do with them.

[scoot68]

BTW I just started work on a 3D model :)

^^ Hoped you would :)

[High Times]

As i was the one who posted Sheik Mo's e-mail address to gauge how many people would be prepared to make an approach. I guess i should back it up with a suggested strategy, so here goes;

Anything of any significance that happens in Dubai has to get Sheik Mo's ok thats just the way it happens, so i would be surprised if Marina Sky Towers hasn't already been given the go ahead by him in some format.

Now i seriously doubt that he sits and reads e-mails he gets from his website, but he will definately have a regular meeting with his PR/Media team, thats guaranteed.

If his site got hit with emails, all with the same subject heading and content, but signed by different individuals all with different e-mail addresses then it would do one of two things.

1- Make the reader/s bring it up at a meeting with the big man.
2- Crash the websites e-mail system.

Preferabley both would be a great result.

Imagine if his site crashed and they found the route cause to be concerns for his vision of Dubai.

Press coverage here would be great but i cant see any corperation going out on a limb to raise concerns for no benefit to themselves.

My strategy is anyone who feels stongly enough about this situation should send the following e-mail and add their name at the end of it.

Put in the Subject line MARINA SKY TOWERS

If enough of these e-mails are sent (all at the same time) I'm sure this will create enough impact to at least get the event mentioned to Sheik Mo. If he then asks to see the e-mail then that's as good as one can hope for i think.

The timing of a collective bombardment of e-mail is paramout here.

MARINA SKY TOWERS - WILL RUIN THE MARINA

Assalamu-alaikum, Your Highness.

As an admirer, investor, and future resident of Dubai Marina, I feel I am duty bound to relay my deep concerns for a proposal that has recently been unveiled within Dubai Marina.

So far, your vision of Dubai has been widely accepted around the World as a masterpiece, and is quickly gaining the worldwide reputation of an example of class, style and luxury.

We are a collective Forum of Property Investors, Architects, Construction Enthusiasts and lovers of Dubai at; http://www.skyscrapercity.com/ We have a membership of more than 180,000 and more than 15 million posts within our Forum. It is currently in the top 60 most popular forums on the Planet. Source - http://www.big-boards.com/board/361/ The UAE has it’s own section, as indeed does Dubai Marina. http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=577 The proposal also has it's own section http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=601617&page=8

The reason we are appealing to you is that we feel the aesthetics of Marina Sky Towers will not add to the beauty of the Marina but will be an ugly intrusion into what is currently an area of architectural splendour. The sheer size and mass of the proposed structures will not blend into the existing cityscape and will not fit well with the surrounding architecture. It will not compliment landmark developments such as the original Phase 1 complex and the surrounding towers. The height and scale of the proposal in particular it's podium will be totally overbearing to the area and will not make residents or visitors feel at ease with their surroundings, let alone enjoy the waterfront lifestyle. Furthermore the traffic and logistical problems that this will introduce into what is already an overcrowded area will be disastrous for the Marina. The increased volume of traffic generated by towers of this height and volume will make it near impossible to move freely around this already crowded end of the Marina.

The reason for our concern is not a selfish attempt to preserve a view from an apartment. It is to prevent what will definitely have a negative impact on the area as a whole. If this development gets built, people will come to Dubai Marina from all over the world and say why on earth did they do that?

Obviously your decisions are well thought out and carefully considered and we admire your strength of character and judgement when it comes to planning the legacy you will leave to your people, and the wider world.

We would however respectfully recommend that this project is considered carefully before it’s too late, as we feel that the concept of creating a city within a city is in danger of being ruined in the name of maximising profits.

We sincerely thank you for consideration of this matter, and hope that you appreciate our views and concerns.

Insha Allah.

YOUR NAME HERE


If anyone has any suggestions on changes/additions jump in.
Mods/Admins need to be ok with using the site name etc.
Timing of when to hit send needs to be agreed and implemented by all.

If you were all prapared to send an individual e-mail that will get lost in the hundreds he gets everyday then you should all be willing to do this too.

Anyway just my thoughts if it's a shit idea or against forum rules just delete it and we can all carry on bitching.

[GoDubai!]

^^Well written letter. Now, if we could get someone to do it up in Arabic as well.

[ramzy]

HT I think that email/letter expresses concerns in a concise way. Having been on the Sheik Mo's webiste and sent an email already I found that there is a limit of 500 words, but luckily your text sums up to 420 words in Microsoft Word - but you can check this yourself too, in case I might have got it wrong.

I am in favour of your strategy and am happy to submit the email you wrote using my alternate email address and also asking the other investors (with me) I know who have bought on TT and MP.

So now all that needs to be decided is when we send the emails to create the most impact.

Do you think you should post your email text on to the other threads for TT, MP, MH, just in case people don't visit this thread.

[jetsetter]

I think we should widen the net and not just restrict this to people who have invested in the marina but anyone and everyone who has/had an interest in visiting or spending time at the marina...

We should forward to anyone who we think falls into this category...

[agod]

Hi H.T.

Would a punchier subject line be better, like "The ruination of the Marina" and I felt it was good but a bit long winded, it needs more praise for him, and less about us, good stats on the Forum though, the 15 million figure made me sit up.

And remember that Jumeriah beach incident, when he stopped that developement taking place on the beach, so he has a heart.

Alan

[Sheltie]

Excellent idea

[malec]

I think the main concern should be traffic and pressure on infrastructure I think, then loss of light, then aesthetics. To say "dwarfs the existing environment" is kind of ridiculous when you're talking about 400m towers anyway. I recon you should complain specifically about the podium since you may not get this cancelled but it's possible they might force them to sink the podium.

[ramzy]

What about a subject line of "The ruination of the marina - MARINA SKY TOWERS". Just a thought - Capitalised subject lines stand out more I think.

[malec]

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9375/marinav6ci4.jpg

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/3662/marinav62kg5.jpg


In fairness, that letter sounds like nimbyism. Much better to concentrate on infrastructure especially. Also since environmental concern is becoming a big thing that should be mentioned too.

edit: btw, if someone wants a render from a certain location just ask :)

[shaffar]

Totally uncool & out of place

But great animation Malec, can you post it on the torch Thread:)

[Dubai_Steve]

This will destroy the marina. It must be stopped at any cost!

[malec]

An idea of the scale :)

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/967/marinaskytowersye8.jpg

[shaffar]

I don't knows of a place on earth that will be this densely built up & have most households owning 2 cars.

Is it not true that the twin towers had a whole underground station to service them?

[Dubai_Steve]

Anyone got a spare 747 ?

[malec]

^^ Go buy some damac apartments and you could win that private jet they have :)

[agod]

What about a subject line of "The ruination of the marina - MARINA SKY TOWERS". Just a thought - Capitalised subject lines stand out more I think.

Ramzy, Having just retired from the Sign business for 20 odd years, if I was making you a sign, then I would Capitilise it, but for an e.mail it is Considered SHOUTING and rude.

So why not try this " The Ruination Of The Marina " a compromise, and you dont want to make it long winded, short and punchy, as we are only allowed a few words anyway.

Regards Alan

[shaffar]

Anyone got a spare 747 ?

Or 3. :ohno:

[LoverOfDubai]

I don't knows of a place on earth that will be this densely built up & have most households owning 2 cars.

That is the problem with Dubai. There is too much car ownership (and too much sprawl) and not enought mass transit or high density. Although this project is dense, it will not solve any problems.

Is it not true that the twin towers had a whole underground station to service them?

Yes, there was a station for the subway and commuter rail. A new station is currently under construction.

[LoverOfDubai]

Timing of when to hit send needs to be agreed and implemented by all.

Well, if it is going to be done, it should be within two days (at the latest). You might not think about this now, but the anger at this project will begin to fade. The same happened with The Universe. I was so angry and distraught by the news, but now I do not care. If you really feel strongly about this, do it as soon as possible so you do not just "get used to it."

And I agree with Malec, the letter should include more effects on the infrastructure and how it fits within the area. Also, you should remove any mention of "property investors." This implies that you have money in an adjacent tower and have some selfish impulses against this new project.

I would also like to recommend another change. This sentence:

The reason for our concern is not purely a selfish attempt to preserve a nice view from an apartment.

needs to be reworded. I think this sounds better:

The reason for our concern is not a selfish attempt to preserve a view from an apartment.

The first version makes it sound like your own views from your own apartment is a part of your hatred of this project. It would be best if any selfishness or personal interests are not found anywhere in this letter.

[Imre]

15/May/2008

The Torch and the MST plot

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/6320/imresolt107os9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/4127/imresolt108hr1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[walid786]

You need to take this discussions to the main Marina thread, everybody in Marina should be made aware of what is going on and then more people can participate to create an even bigger impact.

If this monstrosity indeed gets built, it will create a selling spree within Marina, especially the Phase 1 area which is already dense. In fact this has aleady started, I've seen a lot of emirates crown apartments for sale at a cheap rate. Nobody will want to live nearby and to be honest the whole project is just laughable. Until now toursists used to come to Marina to admire the surroundings, in future they will come to have a good laugh at the worst architerctural project on earth!

[ramzy]

hi people.

I am not sure if Sheikh Mo would have seen the development or its proposals but do you think we should embed a link to the photos of MST just after its name in the letter. this is so that whoever reads it does not need to find photos of the development to bring it to his highness attention with great difficulty

[malec]

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/8594/18554945ja4.jpg

[arfie]

That render by Malec makes the tower(development) alot better than it probably will actual look when complete

[noir-dresses]

holly smokes, looks great

[city_life]

Very Bad idea

[High Times]

Would a punchier subject line be better, like "The ruination of the Marina" and I felt it was good but a bit long winded, it needs more praise for him, and less about us,

Subject line alternative - MARINA SKY TOWERS - WILL RUIN THE MARINA


I think the main concern should be traffic and pressure on infrastructure I think, then loss of light, then aesthetics. To say "dwarfs the existing environment" is kind of ridiculous when you're talking about 400m towers anyway. I recon you should complain specifically about the podium since you may not get this cancelled but it's possible they might force them to sink the podium.

I agree and I have ammended the e-mail accordingly.

Well, if it is going to be done, it should be within two days (at the latest).

I would also like to recommend another change. This sentence:

The reason for our concern is not purely a selfish attempt to preserve a nice view from an apartment.

needs to be reworded. I think this sounds better:

The reason for our concern is not a selfish attempt to preserve a view from an apartment.

I have ammended this too.

I dont agree that Property Investors should be moved as Dubai is reliant upon Property Investors at the moment, and these are the people he cant afford to upset.

You need to take this discussions to the main Marina thread, everybody in Marina should be made aware of what is going on and then more people can participate to create an even bigger impact.


Yes this would be a good idea. If it is ok with Mods ?

If it is ok then I will post to all tallest block active threads and Marina main thread for people to cut and paste the e-mail into Sheik Mo's contact link. and all send it at the same time. I reckon this Sunday at 12:00 midday GMT or Dubai 3:00 pm. If they all go through within 10-20 mins of each other his in box will look great when it gets opened, and i am sure he will at lest be told what happened.

I think we have nothing to loose and for me personally i will feel better knowing that i have done as much as humanly possible to prevent this from happening. If these concerns are ignored then so be it but we can all say we had a go.

Moderators ??

[malec]

Generally any massive glass tower (and probably most massive towers anyway) look good from directly underneath. You get this "holy shit!!!" sort of feeling :)
It's the podium that bugs me the most here. It should be sunk 6 or 7 floors into the ground, then it'd be great if the rest of the podium had setbacks and some facilities, etc so that it adds to marina walk rather than takes away from.

High Times, you can take it to the main thread if you want but don't think you should post in every tallest block thread on the forum. Anyway I think impact would be 10x greater if you could get some media involved :)

[jetsetter]

Subject line alternative - MARINA SKY TOWERS - WILL RUIN THE MARINA

I really like this subject line - wasn't keen on using 'ruination'


If it is ok then I will post to all tallest block active threads and Marina main thread for people to cut and paste the e-mail into Sheik Mo's contact link. and all send it at the same time. I reckon this Sunday at 12:00 midday GMT or Dubai 3:00 pm.

Bearing in mind that Sunday is the weekend (outside of Dubai anyway) it might be an idea if we set reminders in our phones/blackberries to limit the risk of people going out and forgetting.

[joobn]

great render malec! but those towers are fugly!

[scoot68]

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/8594/18554945ja4.jpg

^^ Maybe a render where it shows the 'ruining of the marina' would be better:)

[scoot68]

http://i27.tinypic.com/348hlqr.jpg

[ramzy]

Will it actually be this wide? Or is this based on the model?

[par4]

If this is going to be the actual size of this project then it completely hides the Torch and everything else in the tall block and makes a mockery of the original renders of the Torch sitting right on the waters edge.

[charlie big potatoes]

If this is going to be the actual size of this project then it completely hides the Torch and everything else in the tall block and makes a mockery of the original renders of the Torch sitting right on the waters edge.

All of a sudden THE ARSE END dont seem such a shit hole does it.:cheers:

[GoDubai!]

Maybe it's not so bad after all...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/Upandhi/20080516-154343-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/Upandhi/20080516-154408.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/Upandhi/20080516-154034.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/Upandhi/20080516-154033.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/Upandhi/20080516-153957.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/Upandhi/20080516-154349_0.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/Upandhi/20080516-154334_0.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/Upandhi/20080516-154339.jpg

Ok, it's a massive supertall with a big fat podium. Well, the tallest block will have a lot other supertalls to compliment it. That massive podium might work at the edge of the marina canal as an interesting backdrop to boats and their sails. The key is if the structure is interesting and attractive architecuturally. Malec's render and some of the images at the project website suggest that this could well be an impressive and attractive structure.

See www.MarinaSkyTowers.ae (http://www.marinaskytowers.ae/)

Sure, it is a disaster for Torch and MH owners. It will cast a massive shadow on these towers. But this isn't on the scale of the Lighthouse or Palm Springs near disaster. These towers, if well-made and genuinely artistic, could still add value to the tallest block.

Sure, there will be some logistics issues. Perhaps these will be addressed. I would suggest an underground passage with moving walkways (like in airports) which connect directly to the Metro station about 500 meters away. Hundreds of people could make their way back and forth to the station every minute.

[scoot68]

Those yachts won't be goin far what with the bridges...note how the podium is cleverly made to look 7 floors. I sent my email is all I can do. :)

[GoDubai!]

The soft launch of this project, btw, has been delayed. Developer is hoping for June, but admits it may be delayed till after summer. Apparently they are still awaiting approvals of some kind or other. An agent at Cityscape said she expects the tower to sell out quickly upon soft launch negating need for any hard launch later. HA! Keep dreaming, I thought. What are they going to be asking for? Probably 8000 psf.

[dubaiskyscrapers]

I just asked the people at the stand today for information, they said they are just showing a concept and this is not final?
Then why are you going so aggressive and put yourselves in situations that might backfire on you guys!! I say better wait for the project to be final and launched...

I checked the website you just mentioned the project seems amazing!!

[High Times]

I just asked the people at the stand today for information, they said they are just showing a concept and this is not final?
Then why are you going so aggressive and put yourselves in situations that might backfire on you guys!! I say better wait for the project to be final and launched...

I checked the website you just mentioned the project seems amazing!!

Backfire ? are you taking the piss ?

Listen mate, if your crossing a road and you see a bus coming at you it's time to get the f**k out of the way quick, you dont wait to see if it stops.

Like its just an idea, this has been planned for a very long time. Very sexy website, floor plans, model, and all the usual stuff. They also know what they want to sell for too, but I'm sure will try and create hype and jump prices up like Nakheel did on Dubai Promenade. Think about it, this development will not be handed over for at least 4-5 years so they will factor the growth into the launch prices for sure.

If it is awaiting a final sign off from someone up high then i suggest anyone who hasn't been charmed by the flashy website sends an e-mail to sheik Mo as so many people have stated they would.

Regardless of how nice and shiny they make it look in the marketing, if this goes ahead as planned it will ruin the marina walk area and turn this end of the marina into a horrible mess. It may look nice in a wide angled photograph, but living, working or visiting this area will be a nightmare, forget a quiet coffee in Marina walk looking at the boats cruising bye. It's gonna be like sitting on a motorway having a picnic.

The only winners will be DAS.

[bizzybonita]

you mean DAS in associated with BETTER HOME ...

[dubaiskyscrapers]

Listen mate!!!
Should I take it as a threat?

Then why the F**K are so pissed about it? what relation you got with this project? Or is it the developer got you screwed up to your neck!!!

[scoot68]

If they do put a tower between TT + MHT It's gonna have to b tall :lol: