Right Contentious topic but very relevant in Today's SA
Rule 1 you can come and play provided you dont bait others, spew vile just because you can or act like a dumbass
Rule 2 Me is King:)

Ok so here goes, I found this very intresting article and Im not supported of JZ but I have seen Mandela come and go (oh my god a black president it must be the end of the world and we have to emigrate) to 2 terms of TB( Oh my god an educated black man and we gotta emigrate despite record growth and a slow reduction on crime) and now JZ is coming and again i hear(oh my god an uneducated black militant left wing communist rapist corrupt cronnie we gota emigrate).
Despite this I think lets give him a go and se what he is made of as he obvioulsy has some balls to call the situation in Zim like it was which neither TB or Madiba did and despite that he is left leaning and will bring social change by spending big of housing, roads, schools etc so rewad the article and tell me what you think
Zuma 'turns tide of international opinion'
Peter Fabricius
April 29 2008 at 09:09AM

ANC president Jacob Zuma apparently had a successful tour of Germany, Britain and France last week.

"He turned the tide of opinion among investors and politicians," according to a diplomat who followed the tour, reassuring them that he could be an acceptable national president.

Zuma and his aides said the right things on a number of issues of concern to his hosts, including conveying an acceptable level of conservatism on economic policy, and promising to get tough on crime, Eskom and Zimbabwe.

The last was reportedly the most reassuring part of his message and attracted the most attention.

'He turned the tide of opinion among investors and politicians'
In Berlin, on the first leg of the tour, Zuma set the tone by distancing himself from President Thabo Mbeki's quiet Zimbabwe diplomacy, and said the long delay in releasing the presidential electoral results was "not acceptable", and that "the leaders in Africa should really move in to unlock this logjam".

Before meeting British Prime Minister Gordon Brown on Thursday, Zuma appeared to change tack, endorsing Mbeki's approach and implicitly criticising Brown's "loud" diplomacy by saying simply swearing at President Robert Mugabe would not solve the crisis.







He opposed Western demands for an arms embargo against Zimbabwe.

A day later he praised Durban dock workers for refusing to unload a consignment of Chinese arms destined for Zimbabwe.

In a joint statement with Brown, Zuma contradicted Mbeki by declaring that there was an electoral crisis, and called for the early release of election results, and an end to the violence which Mugabe's militias have unleashed on the opposition MDC supporters.

'He was much tougher on Zimbabwe in private meetings'
Television pictures of Zuma shaking hands with Mugabe's British arch-enemy, and saying there is an electoral crisis, contrasted tellingly with the now infamous picture of Mbeki holding hands with Mugabe two weeks ago and saying there was no crisis.

In Paris, Zuma responded to a Zimbabwe police raid on MDC headquarters by saying it looked like "somebody is sabotaging the elections" there and making the country look like a "police state".

The wobble in the middle of his trip, where he defended Mbeki, raised some old concerns about Zuma's tendency to send different messages to different people. But the diplomat following his tour dismissed this as a mere response to concerns expressed in Pretoria about his tough words in Berlin.

"There is no doubt where he stands. He was much tougher on Zimbabwe in private meetings than in his public statements."

Most intriguingly, Zuma revealed his plans to create a separate and tougher initiative on Zimbabwe within the Southern African Development Community (Sadc) from Mbeki's mediation.

That would entail strengthening the hands of Mugabe's opponents within Sadc, such as Zambia's President Levy Mwanawasa and Botswana's Ian Khama, against his old allies like Angolan Jose Eduardo dos Santos and Namibia's Hifikepunye Pohamba.

The evidence for these moves has already emerged in the refusal of the Sadc maritime states to accept a consignment of Chinese arms destined for Zimbabwe.

Ironically, though, in the controversial so-called special Browse Mole Report put out last year by South African intelligence agents, Zuma was named as Angola's preferred candidate in the rivalry for the ANC presidency.

That report, though dismissed by Mbeki's people as disinformation, is widely believed to contain considerable truth and correctly reflected the chilly relations between Mbeki's administration and that of Dos Santos.

If the report is true, it raises intriguing questions, among them: Has Zuma, preparing himself for greater responsibility as the South African president, decided to ditch Dos Santos in his effort to put down Mugabe? Or is he using his good relations with Dos Santos to turn him against Mugabe, on the grounds that the latter is now an old rogue elephant who must be discarded

I agree SA, lets give him a chance like we did with others. I hope that he is not gonna turn like Bush and bring the country into recession. He was the MEC of finance in KZN, may be he will use the experience he gained there.

I personally think that he is going to be the best president in South Africa yet (*waits for glass to fly*) but I guess all anyone can do is wait and see. If he gets out of hand, the NPA can initiate proceedings against him even when he is the president, no?

well, at least he is not going to tell us there is "no crisis in Zimbabwe", that "crime is under control", "that HIV does not cause AIDS". I am willing to take a man with his personal faults as long as he does not throw SA into a tailspin like Mbeki has done at a time when we need leadership and re-assurance.

It's not Zuma that worries me necessarily, but rather the people who come with him.....there is alot of uncertainty of people...Howerver the same could have been said about Manule and others when they came in and they certainly stepped up to the mark (generally).

spending time wooing investors and foreigners overseas en route to becoming president is a good thing. admitting that zim has a crisis is a good thing. he just has to play the right cards and say the right things.

I have my doubts but I won't pass any judgement until he has been President for at least 2 years. His track record thus far isn't that great and he might acknowledge that AIDS exists but believes that a shower will fix that ;). Here is some food for thought:

Idi Amin was seen as a Saviour and the International community loved the man - they kissed his hands and hung onto every word that he said. Robert Mugabe was declared an African hero shortly after his Presidency began.

In a nutshell, I am very suspicious of the man.

I have my doubts but I won't pass any judgement until he has been President for at least 2 years. His track record thus far isn't that great and he might acknowledge that AIDS exists but believes that a shower will fix that ;). Here is some food for thought:

Idi Amin was seen as a Saviour and the International community loved the man - they kissed his hands and hung onto every word that he said. Robert Mugabe was declared an African hero shortly after his Presidency began.

In a nutshell, I am very suspicious of the man.

There have always been doubts about Mbeki and Tata Mandela and they did good, so it wouldn't be fair to just point out those too and compare them with Zuma.

I agree with KomSakkie that the worry isn't Zuma as such but brainless people like the former ANCYL President Fikile Mbalula. The good thing about all these is that the ANC's constitution has also been changed to have the party's President running for only 2 terms.

Zuma should just leave the likes of Trevor Manuel and Tito Mboweni in their positions.

There have always been doubts about Mbeki and Tata Mandela and they did good, so it wouldn't be fair to just point out those too and compare them with Zuma.

I agree with KomSakkie that the worry isn't Zuma as such but brainless people like the former ANCYL President Fikile Mbalula. The good thing about all these is that the ANC's constitution has also been changed to have the party's President running for only 2 terms.

Zuma should just leave the likes of Trevor Manuel and Tito Mboweni in their positions.

In my books Mbeki is as useful as a one-legged man at an arse kicking :lol: Mandela was fannytastic !

In my books Mbeki is as useful as a one-legged man at an arse kicking :lol: Mandela was fannytastic !

He might have had his faults like any other leader but he is a good leader after all. He is an economist and most of his strategies works well.

He might have had his faults like any other leader but he is a good leader after all. He is an economist and most of his strategies works well.

Okay Pule .. let's agree to disagree. You like the man, I can't stand him :cheers: Each to their own ;)

Okay Pule .. let's agree to disagree. You like the man, I can't stand him :cheers: Each to their own ;) :lol: Ok Syd, not a problem buddy.

Ive also had many doubts after Polokwane, but JZ is playing his cards right with the majority, & thats a good thing & can also be a bad thing. We've all heard the false promises before an election, whether or not he'll live up to it is another story, but as I said before, when he is elected president next year, I dont think there is a need to scare & flee the country. That will be down right stupid. He will do his job because in the first 2 years he will have the whole world watching his every step.

I would give TB an over all rating of 6.5/10 and if you brake it into sectors I would give economy and strategic planning (debt payments almost complete, international credit ratings up, Massive public spending on infra etc) 8.5/10.
Foreign Policy 3/10

I really dont know that much about JZ except for his faux paus so I also reserve judgement but I think it might be mre of the same (party politics first everything else second). I do beliv the generation after JZ will be the one to really do SA proud as they would typically not have been exiles or Political prisoners, would be well educated and generally be capitalist as apposed to communist

I do tend to agree with SA Boy, I think TB has done a decent job in certain areas, but in others a very very poor job.

I am unsure if it will be the next generation after JZ, I think we're looking at maybe 2 or 3 before we start to get "decent" politicians running this country.

Foreign Policy 3/10


I am not Mbeki's biggest fan :ohno: however I think his screw up over Zim isnt the only thing he has done - we need to consider his achievements, especially in light of SA's situation pre-1994.

Under him SA has contributed positively throughout Africa in many crises and I would say that SA is overwelmingly seen as a benign leader throughout the continent, not just in our traditional stamping ground of the SADC. He has opened up the continent for SA business, sent peacekeepers, but yet without embroiling us in any real wars. I would give him a 6 actually. Without Zim, a 9. IMO Zim itself isnt serious enough to give a -3, but I score this as his inaction has damaged the hard-won prestige of the nation. Strong action (and I dont mean invasion! :lol:) a few years ago would have given SA immense credibility as a regional power deserving of international respect.

I dont expect SA's leaders to get everything right first time, I just wish they would find it easier to just admit their mistakes earlier and change policy rather than bludgeon on doing the wrong thing for years for face-saving. I was VERY suprised that they admitted culpability over the electricity debacle - a pleasing change in heart.

I believe that this country has been stagnating recently and it is in part due to spineless leadership. Mbeki is a puppet and has no backbone. He is scared to take big decisions and thats why this country, perhaps on the threshold of first world status some years ago, has stagnated. We have too much inequality and not enough constructive decisions being made to rectify it. This is why I also agree that Jacob Zuma deserves a chance. Yeah we all know that his track record isn't great but he's never really been in a position of leadership so how can we judge him before we see what he can do. It looks like JZ, unlike TM, does have a backbone and we need someone with a backbone, who can make big decisions to get this country moving forward again.

Very recent interview(May 9th) with Thabo Mbeki from AlJazeeraEnglish:

Interview with Thabo Mbeki

Al Jazeera's Sami Zeidan meets the South African president who discusses the ongoing electoral deadlock in Zimbabwe and closing the wealth gap in South Africa.

vNRsoBADW90

Part 2:

Ok6acpZ5rDY&feature=related

Zille shortlisted as best mayor in the world
BRONWYNNE JOOSTE
11 May, 2008
Cape Argus

An anonymous supporter has thrown Cape Town Mayor Helen Zille's hat into the ring for the world's best mayor award and she has been shortlisted

I am glad that this thread has been opened. I am a Kenyan residing in the USA and I have followed the events in South Africa from the mid 1980s when the struggle was going on to this day when to me south Africa has made tremendous strides in bringing about societal changes within a relatively short time frame. I browse web pages to look for news on developments in south Africa and I always get two pictures. On the one hand, watching videos on youtube.com and reading the comments left, mostly by white south Africans you would think that the ANC was the worst form of government in existence. At the same time going through municipal websites of various localities within south Africa, I see projects as varied as housing, job creation, parks and recreation, Integrated development plans, just to mention but a few, which to me point to a country developing. I know that there are issues with crime, and that ESKOM had to institute load shedding which I understand has stopped, my question then is; what is the true picture in south Africa? is it a nation that is going to the dogs where BEE is ruining firms like ESKOM as written by most white south African forum writers in websites like youtube.com? or is it a growing nations as exemplified by reports from different websites belonging to local authorities and evidenced by the strides made over the last 14 years?

I'm glad that you did your research before posing your question Acreed.

I personally see South Africa as a growing country and as you have stipulated there arelots of projects on the local municipalities web site even though some fo them are still lagging behind because of "skills shortage". The unfortunate part is that the racist whites do not share the same sentiments as the rest of South Africans and they see the situation as being bad and they compare us to Zimbabwe. I still keep on asking myself as to who in the right mind sat and thought that South Africa is going Zimbabwe's way? There are so many countries around teh world that they could have chosen but they opted for Zimbabwe. As well there are plenty of Proudly South African whites as you can see in this forum and they are prepared to help in making this country of ours a better place for all.

All those who are critisizing BEE and AA are the same ones who makes the government to extend the time from of these initiatives by resisting to work with the government to address the imbalance issue. Black people of this country are still being marginilised in great extend and we are the ones who fill the pain and as we report back to the government they for sure tighten the rules to force all these companies to oblige with the BEE act.

I'm from the location called Sebokeng which is about 50kms south of Johannesburg and going home to see my family, I can rpoudly say that yes the government is trying to improve the poor's lives. The resistance to BEE and AA is just to say leave the blacks out of the economy and as long as some of us are still living, that will never happen. The current government doesn't stop whites from being employed but all it does is to ask for equality and I wonder who is right in his/her mind to be against this in a country of more than 47 million and whites are less than 4 million?

The sewerage replacements in the Vaal and Soweto are done by white companies and no one has ever said anything about, but they still complain. Their companies are profiting from the same black people they hate, but they turn a blind eye. The good thing is that there are plenty of hites who sees a large number of opportunities that exist in this country and they make use of them while others just complain without doing anything.

I'm not saying the ANC is all 100% perfect and I do disagree with them on issues like crime and service delivery in their departments. But I still say that South Africa belongs to all those who live in it. Its a shame that those white racists are even feeding their kids the bitter taste of racism.

Pule bro, this thread was not created o bash other races, if it was I would ask if a black man saying kill the boer , kill the farmer is a racist or a freedom fighter?

Lets kep it about politics and not one opinion on the rights and wrong of the past

Pule bro, this thread was not created o bash other races, if it was I would ask if a black man saying kill the boer , kill the farmer is a racist or a freedom fighter?

Lets kep it about politics and not one opinion on the rights and wrong of the past

Don't misss understand me SA, I was just giving my perspective of things to acreed79 as he asked questions. I think being racist is when you generalise a specific race but I have made my points clear that I'm talking about the racist whites who unfortunately I unfotunately became of their victims but I still say that South Africa belongs to all but I will never tolerate those who lash at people based on color. I hate racism irrispactive of whether its coming blacks against whites or even vice-versa.

I'm very anti-racist.

I think SA BOY was saying that because you were only mentioning the white racist, but didn't even mention the black, coloured and asian racists to make it more neutral.

Btw I'm white and I fully support BEE and AA. Sometimes I disagree how it's being implemented (ie corruption), but in general we need it to balance things out. I think the major problem with AA is that there is no strong support, meaning the education is too weak to support it. At law school in 1st year a clear majority are black, yet by the final year they become a minority cuz most of them drop out or fail. And this is also true for poor whites who went to a public school. The public school system can't train our children for the future. Thus the system won't be able to produce enough black professionals at the needed rate and white poverty will still increase at a rapid pace. So if the government wants to make skills get to the origin of the problem: the school. We need the majority of professionals and high incomes to be black for SA to sustain itself efficiently, while at the same time also keeping the white population at its current numbers income wise. Having a black majority of middle and high class at the expense of increasing white poverty won't benefit our economy and country.

I think SA BOY was saying that because you were only mentioning the white racist, but didn't even mention the black, coloured and asian racists to make it more neutral.

And that is why I said that I do not support racism from neither of the parties but jah, I get his point Ed.


Btw I'm white and I fully support BEE and AA. Sometimes I disagree how it's being implemented (ie corruption), but in general we need it to balance things out. I think the major problem with AA is that there is no strong support, meaning the education is too weak to support it. At law school in 1st year a clear majority are black, yet by the final year they become a minority cuz most of them drop out or fail. And this is also true for poor whites who went to a public school. The public school system can't train our children for the future. Thus the system won't be able to produce enough black professionals at the needed rate and white poverty will still increase at a rapid pace. So if the government wants to make skills get to the origin of the problem: the school. We need the majority of professionals and high incomes to be black for SA to sustain itself efficiently, while at the same time also keeping the white population at its current numbers income wise. Having a black majority of middle and high class at the expense of increasing white poverty won't benefit our economy and country.
:applause:

That's exactly what we were discussing with my friends the other day. South Africa needs blacks, whites, indians coloureds etc to become succesfull and corretly so, the country need the majority of black professionals and high incomes to become sustainable.

What the hell happened in Sun City over the weekend? All I heard it was an ANC conference & certain members were not allowed to attend & stormed into the venue & then were forcefully removed, then the others that made it through, went in the venue & started vandalising the place, all I could see was paper being thrown around & water as well.

read "when Mandela Goes by Lester Venter 1994" it refers to a split within the ruling tri partite alliance based on the old gaurd (read freedom fighters, exiles) and the new generation that entered politics to get rich and have an easy life.

Well written and dives dep into the un easy alliace between ANC/SACP and COSATU

read "when Mandela Goes by Lester Venter 1994" it refers to a split within the ruling tri partite alliance based on the old gaurd (read freedom fighters, exiles) and the new generation that entered politics to get rich and have an easy life.

Well written and dives dep into the un easy alliace between ANC/SACP and COSATU

Will try to get it, the new ANC NEC doesn't know anything about ethics. I think they need to be voted out of power so that they can catch a wake up.

All those who are critisizing BEE and AA are the same ones who makes the government to extend the time from of these initiatives by resisting to work with the government to address the imbalance issue. Black people of this country are still being marginilised in great extend and we are the ones who fill the pain and as we report back to the government they for sure tighten the rules to force all these companies to oblige with the BEE act.

I think in any country, just like SA, if you are good at what you do and you do something that's in demand, like engineering, you will be employed without question. At the end of the day, it's not about the colour of your skin, but if you can do your job well.

I think in any country, just like SA, if you are good at what you do and you do something that's in demand, like engineering, you will be employed without question. At the end of the day, it's not about the colour of your skin, but if you can do your job well.

Yes. More than most, SA has been a country of who you know, what group you are aligned with and what your background is, rather than what you know.

Years ago I did an interview for a postgrad engineering scholarship with a major KZN industrial company. The interview should have been pretty techie, but they didnt care about the technology - they (white and black interviewers) wanted to hear I disapproved of the ANC (who was in power nationally at the time). They ended the interview with a 10minute harague telling me off for not slating the ANC. I was furious, but this was fairly typical of the time.

Basically knowledge and development of world leading technology counted for shit. Politics uber alles.

So, Sam Shilowa has resigned in support of Mbeki: an ANC break up is taking momentum. What will the implications for Gauteng be? He's been great for Joburg.

^^ the good news is that Mr Amos Masondo is one of the possible candidate, so lets just cross our fingers.

Shilowa successor to be chosen
01/10/2008 09:03 - (SA)

Johannesburg - The ANC leadership in Gauteng will nominate three candidates to succeed Mbhazima Shilowa as premier on Wednesday.

The provincial executive committee (PEC) would then forward the names to its national structure for a person to be elected, ANC national spokesperson Brian Sokhutu said.

The process would be completed "in the next few days".

Media reports have suggested the front-runners to be finance MEC Paul Mashatile and education MEC Angie Motshekga.

Shilowa resigned on Monday out of loyalty to ousted president Thabo Mbeki who was removed from office by the national executive committee (NEC) of the African National Congress.

The ANC in Gauteng on Tuesday criticised Shilowa's "unbecoming behaviour" for "questioning the decisions of the NEC".

Shilowa said he would have preferred to complete his term in office but he did not want to be in constant battles with the ANC leadership.

It's unbelievable what's going on in the ANC. Almost like the old days when ANC ousted all NP councillors and swept aside its opposition. Now they are doing it to their own! My head is almost spinning at how fast they are destroying themselves. I believe the forces of nature are coming into play and that the ANC will have a much shorter reign than the Nats. Yayh!!

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Zuma intervenes as 'Mbeki premiers' resist

October 01 2008 at 10:27AM

The ANC top brass have intervened in attempts by provincial leaders to oust two more premiers - Beatrice Marshoff of the Free State and Sello Moloto of Limpopo.

This follows the resignation on Monday of Gauteng Premier Mbhazima Shilowa - the third Mbeki-appointed premier to leave office early.

On Tuesday, ANC leader Jacob Zuma personally intervened to resolve the crisis, hoping to heal divisions which have come in the aftermath of the mass cabinet resignations after the ousting of former president Thabo Mbeki.

Moloto has been resisting an instruction by the new ANC provincial leadership to reshuffle his cabinet.

In the Free State, the ANC executive committee wants to replace Marshoff with provincial chairperson Ace Magashule, saying this was in line with a resolution taken at the party's provincial conference earlier this year.

Both the ANC Youth League and Cosatu have backed the ANC provincial executive committee's view that Marshoff should go, but the province's previous representations to the national leadership were ignored.

The ANC earlier this year axed the Eastern Cape's Nosimo Balindlela and the Western Cape's Ebrahim Rasool, both of whom were strong supporters of Mbeki's failed bid to retain the party's presidency for a third term.

Balindlela was blamed for ongoing problems with delivery, and Rasool for failing to heal deep divisions within the ANC in the Western Cape.

Shilowa resigned on Monday out of loyalty to Mbeki and because he did not want to be "in constant battles" with the ANC leadership. The ANC's national working committee (NWC) now wants a new premier elected "without delay".

But the ruling party is keen to stop any more resignations ahead of next year's elections.

The ANC confirmed on Tuesday night that its top leadership, including Zuma, had met with leaders from the Free State and Limpopo, hoping to find a solution to the escalating tensions between the premiers and the provincial leadership.

ANC spokesperson Steyn Speed said meetings had taken place at the ANC headquarters, Luthuli House in Joburg, but refused to disclose details of the discussions.

Earlier on Tuesday, the ANC said the party's leadership core, the NWC, had not discussed the position of the embattled premiers.

A source told The Star that Magashule and senior leaders were summoned to Luthuli House.

"They were told to find a common approach in this whole thing," said the Free State provincial executive committee (PEC) member.

"The province is talking to the premier. Whether she is going or not, that is another matter," added the PEC member.

The moves in the provinces are viewed by critics as part of an ongoing campaign to purge politicians aligned to Mbeki.

They cant even run themselves let alone a country. Lets just hope this is the start of an ANC split so we can have proper democracy and people will vote on issues and ideas and not race and history.

^^ the good news is that Mr Amos Masondo is one of the possible candidate, so lets just cross our fingers.

May not be good for Joburg as he is the executive mayor of the unicity and like Shilowa in Gauteng has done a superb job of running things.

Shilowa successor to be chosen
01/10/2008 09:03 - (SA)

Johannesburg - The ANC leadership in Gauteng will nominate three candidates to succeed Mbhazima Shilowa as premier on Wednesday.

The resignation of Mbhazima "Sam" Shilowa is bad news for Gauteng as he is the mastermind behind the success of the province on both economic and development fronts and his departure is a major setback to a region which is the economic powerhouse of SA.

'Split from the ANC if you want'
05/10/2008 08:02 - (SA)

Johannesburg - The ANC has told those who wish to form a splinter party to go ahead and has threatened them with the full might of the party at the polls.

Instead of working to engender unity, party bosses have decided to show the "ill-disciplined rogues" the door and remind them that membership can be terminated.

In the aftermath of an ugly public spat between party head of policy and Transport Minister Jeff Radebe and former national chairperson Mosioua Lekota, senior members of the ANC who spoke to City Press on Saturday said there was no point in being held captive by the threat of the imminent formation of a new party.

Lekota is considered a possible future leader of a splinter party.

'Meet at the polls'

"We will meet at the polls. That's it," said an ANC national working committee member.

Ayanda Dlodlo, the secretary general of uMkhonto we Sizwe Military Veterans Association, said Lekota and "his ilk" wanted to hold the ANC to ransom. "The ANC is awash with talent. They can go form their own party," said Dlodlo.

Messages left for ANC spokesperson Jesse Duarte had not been returned at the time of going to press.

A number of political commentators said the events of the past week pointed to a possible splinter in the party. They said the success of a new party would depend on the extent of the anger and marginalisation of those not in the faction led by ANC president Jacob Zuma.

The handling of former president Thabo Mbeki's removal from office, the resignations of ministers, Lekota's fiery open letter to the ANC, Gauteng premier Mbhazima Shilowa's resignation and Limpopo premier Sello Moloto's promise to quit his job if arbitrarily forced to reshuffle his cabinet without consideration to service delivery requirements, had primed the country for an ANC split, they said.

Many unhappy ANC members

A former minister said it took time to establish an organisation rooted in every village, township and suburb - a requirement to take on the ANC. However, the former minister said the extent of the anger should not be undermined.

Another minister said the ANC leadership had opted to exacerbate divisions rather than seek unity by purging those who had supported Mbeki's bid for the ANC presidency.

The minister said they were doing this in the hope that this group would leave the party and ease the hostilities expected to accompany the much-anticipated list process.

An ANC leader said a splinter could be effective near the elections but would have to be driven by sentiment and events rather than by organisational structures because these took a long time to set up.

"At the moment many councillors, mayors, provincial legislators and MPs know it would not make economic sense to leave paid jobs now for an organisation whose potential is only speculative. They remain unhappy nonetheless and the ANC knows this," said the member.

Lekota set the cat among the pigeons when he wrote an open letter to ANC secretary-general Gwede Mantashe, accusing the Zuma-led ANC of departing from the ANC's political bible, the Freedom Charter, by undermining the judiciary.

In its response, the ANC sought to portray Lekota as a failed leader. The party dragged Nelson Mandela into the saga, saying Lekota had presided over a "disrespectful discourse that insulted" Mandela.

A source said this was an attempt to turn the public against Lekota by casting him as an anti-Mandela leader and also portraying themselves as having Mandela's best interests at heart.

In the Western Cape, representatives of more than 80 branches mainly from in and around Cape Town that recently held a parallel conference to the one that elected Mcebisi Skwatsha as provincial chairperson, on Saturday held a meeting to discuss their options.

PAC splits
12/10/2008 23:51 - (SA)

Johannesburg - Disgruntled members of the PAC, led by former party secretary Thami Plaaitjie, have left the organisation to form a breakaway party, the SABC reported on Sunday.

The group has said that the current PAC, under the leadership of Letlapa Mphahlele is not what they can identify with.

Former PAC president Clarence Makwetu is also part of the splinter group.

The group said that it plans to convene a conference in December to form a new party that they call the real PAC.

They have also accused Mphahlele of abandoning the ideologies of the party's founding leader, Robert Sobukwe.

----------------------------------------------
:poke: so dead doesn't always mean dead! Oh well, they'll kiil themselves dead this time :lol:

ANC suspends Lekota

13/10/2008 19:12 - (SA)

Johannesburg - The ANC has suspended the membership of former chairperson Mosiuoa Lekota, the party's national working committee announced on Monday.

It also kicked out Mluleki George, who served as Lekota's deputy during his tenure as defence minister.

A party statement issued before 19:00 read: "The ANC national working committee (NWC) meeting in Bloemfontein today (13 October 2008), has decided to summarily suspend the ANC membership of Mosiuoa Lekota and Mluleki George with immediate effect."

The committee said this was in line with Rule 25.12 of the ANC constitution. This rule authorises the NWC to summarily suspend any member, pending the institution and conclusion of disciplinary proceedings against them.

"The NWC has agreed to convene a special meeting of the ANC National Executive Committee (NEC) this Wednesday where the matter will receive further attention," the statement read.

"The ANC will take similar action against any other members who have indicated in words or action their intention to establish a party in opposition to the ANC."

Lekota could not immediately be reached for comment.

Disciplinary action

The NWC said it would recommend to the NEC that provincial structures be directed to take disciplinary action against such individuals.

"The NWC believes that this action will address any confusion that may have been created by people speaking for the ANC at meetings not arranged or sanctioned by the ANC," the statement read.

Lekota last week announced his intention to hold a convention to discuss the possibility of forming a new political party.

He recently resigned as defence minister after the ANC leadership ousted Thabo Mbeki as president of the country.

In Monday's statement, the NWC said the ANC could not allow its structures to be used "for purposes of undermining and betraying the organisation".

"While the ANC respects the right of any South African to form a political party, the NWC reiterates the fundamental principle that all ANC members have voluntarily undertaken to respect its decisions, internal processes and democratically-elected structures."

Grievances or concerns did not give any member a licence to defy decisions of ANC structures, to destabilise the organisation, or to engage in factional activity, the NWC said.

'Badly prepared-for meeting'

Lekota met ANC treasurer-general Mathews Phosa on Monday morning to discuss his concerns over the party.

Afterwards, Lekota told the SABC the meeting was not helpful.

"It was a very badly prepared-for meeting," he said.

"Although they said they were mandated by the national working committee, there was no record of the decision of the committee as to what their answers are to the questions I have raised.

"There is nothing you could put your finger on and say this is what the position of the ANC is."

Lekota held a rally in Langa, Cape Town, to drum up support for the idea of a national convention.

Drumming up support

In the Free State, a group of disgruntled ANC members announced on Monday that a provincial convention would be held to test support for a national convention.

There were also indications of support for the idea in the Eastern Cape, The Herald Online reported on Monday. According to the report, Lekota was scheduled to hold three meetings in Nelson Mandela Bay on Monday afternoon.

Mluleki George was reportedly also expected to speak in Port Elizabeth on Monday.

Those expected to attend included former head of the ANC presidency Smuts Ngonyama and some business leaders.

ANC secretary-general Gwede Mantashe spent the weekend in the Eastern Cape addressing a provincial alliance summit in King William's Town, and the Cacadu regional council in Humansdorp.

Party spokesperson Andile Nkuhlu told the Herald that Mantashe had urged members not to leave the ANC.

- SAPA

http://www.dieburger.com/images/burgerlogo.gif

Lekota confirms new party plan

13/10/2008 23:43 - (SA)

Norman Silke, Die Burger

Port Elizabeth - Former defence minister Mosiuoa Lekota, whose membership of the ANC was suspended on Monday, has confirmed his intention to form a breakaway party.

"We must go forward to the formation of a structure that can lead us, and not leave it to the ANC's National Executive Committee and the likes of [ANC Youth League president] Julius Malema," he told a gathering in New Brighton.

But Lekota added that he would only believe his suspension when the ANC confirmed it to him in writing.

He pointed out that the party's constitution says no member can be punished without being afforded a hearing.

Lekota described divisions in the party as a tragedy and acknowledged that they had waited too long after cracks appeared to try and patch things up.

Mluleki George, who served as Lekota's deputy during his tenure as defence minister, was also kicked out of the party.

- Die Burger

Shilowa resigns from ANC
15/10/2008 08:48 - (SA)

Johannesburg - Former Gauteng premier Mbhazima Shilowa has resigned from the ANC, its spokesperson Jessie Duarte said on Wednesday.

"The resignation letter was delivered last night (Tuesday)," said Duarte.

"He (Shilowa) tendered his resignation to the secretary of the province and apparently he is making an announcement today, probably informing us that he is joining a new political party.

soooo Lekota hands in his letter of resegnation, but they fire him?

W Cape ANC members quit
16/10/2008 14:13 - (SA)

Cape Town - A group of disgruntled senior members of the ANC in the Western Cape announced their resignation from the party on Thursday.

They included the leader of the ANC caucus in the Cape Town city council, Mbulelo Ncedana, former Saldanha Bay Mayor Onel de Beer, and Ebrahim Sawant, until recently deputy chairperson of the party's powerful Dullah Omar, or Cape metro, region.

Ncedana was secretary of Dullah Omar until the regional executive was disbanded in the wake of last month's controversial provincial conference.

The ANC provincial executive suspended all three men from the party earlier this week.

"This action results from our deep unhappiness with the state of affairs in the party," the 11-member group said in a statement at a media briefing in Cape Town.

"Voters of the ANC are watching in shock as the norms, values, and traditions are being eroded."

Mobilising support

They said they intended to focus their energies on mobilising support for the national convention called by former ANC national chairperson Mosiuoa Lekota.

Ncedana said those in the group who were members of municipal councils had also quit those posts.

He said the ANC's national leadership had failed to respond to complaints about the recent Western Cape provincial conference, which he said had been marked by corruption and factionalism.

He said it was wrong for ANC secretary-general Gwede Mantashe to dismiss dissidents as people bitter that Thabo Mbeki lost last year's ANC leadership contest.

"Some of us sitting here [at] this table are people who supported president Jacob Zuma in the conference," he said.

"It just tells you that all these statements that are made by both the president of the ANC, and [Mantashe] himself, and other leaders of the ANC at a national level, they are dishonest."

New party

Vuyisile Schoeman, secretary of the ANC Youth League's Chris Hani branch in Khayelitsha, said the national convention would not necessarily decide to form a new party.

For this reason, it was premature to say whether a new party would work together with other parties in the Western Cape.

Ndithini Tyhido, a former Dullah Omar REC member, said there was no room for anyone who wanted to participate in the ANC to build a caring society.

"The ANC under the lash of Jacob Zuma and Gwede Mantashe has no soul," he said.

The other members of the group were Isaac Tshabile, former member of the Boland regional executive; Brian Heber, Cape Town councillor and former Dullah Omar REC member; Mogamat Majiedt, former secretary of the Boland region; Nhonho Mtakatya, former member of the provincial executive; Clifford Sitonga, former Dullah Omar REC member; and Nizam Ismail, an ordinary member from the Boland.

I predicted a split of the ANC because of Zuma a few months back - seems the politicians and journos are starting to see the beginnings of one....

The party with no name
http://www.mg.co.za/article/2008-10-16-the-party-with-no-name
Oct 16 2008 17:17

It seems to be no longer a question of if, but rather when, a new political party will emerge. All Mosiuoa Lekota and Mbhazima Shilowa need is a name.

The African National Congress, meanwhile, has promised to discipline Lekota and Mluleki George and said while it didn't object to the formation of a new entity, it would not stand for dissidents using the party's resources and structures.

What is surprising is that the pair have not yet resigned. There can be no turning back now, so perhaps they are waiting to see what kind of punishment the ruling party will mete out. They can then play the role of the aggrieved, and promptly produce their letters of resignation.

Most of the new party's support is likely to come from disillusioned ANC members, so perhaps the men have been caught working the phones late into the night at Luthuli House.

Former Gauteng premier Shilowa wasted no time in tendering his resignation and is now a free agent, ready and willing to serve the new party.

The ANC continues to insist that there are no major fault lines and say that rather than a split, we are merely seeing a splinter.

Respected political analyst Steven Friedman, director of the Centre for the Study of Democracy, says the ANC is not likely to lose sleep over the fracas. He says the few thousand who turned up for a meeting did not a party make, and that at least half-a-million votes are required for a seat in Parliament.

"Politics is going to get rough if people break away," said Friedman.

"I think Jacob Zuma and the people around him have made a clear strategic calculation ... to keep [ousted former president Thabo] Mbeki and the senior people around him [Mbeki] in the ANC," he said.

They had an idepth interview with Bra Jacob the other night on SABC, I missed it but did catch one thing from there. When Vuyo asked uMshiniwam if he felt the decision by the NEC to recall Mbeki from his post so close to the end of his term necessary. Showerhead replied that when Mbeki had to make a descision to Zuma's removal from deputy presidency at the time, was a similar case. Where by in both cases it was a judges ruling that they had some sort of interference.

Though Im still confused as to why Shaik is still in jail......Im not a fan of him or his brothers, neither do I think they contribute any good to our country, but surely if Bra Jacob is aquitted, Shaiks trail result seems untrue, i.e if Zuma didnt recieve any bribes, Shaik didnt give him one..... strange country we live in.

Hahahaha Durbsoi, Zuma was never acquitted!! The case was struck from the role becuase of a technical problem not becuase he is innocent. The court said the NPA didn't follow the right procedures in charging him again, meaning they should have let Zuma have he's representation before chargin him. But oh well, Zuma is still guilty as ever or he wouldn't be tryin to do anything in his power to stop this case from happenin. Shaik is also guilty, he was tried and the evidence was stacked against him. I read the law report so I know, which is why I also know Zuma is guilty :)

the law is a very complicated 'science' ne?

shaik is the classic fall guy...

http://www.businessday.co.za/images/bdlogo01.gif

Posted to the web on: 20 October 2008

ANC rebels aim to force local polls

Hajra Omarjee

Political Correspondent

IN A MOVE designed to strengthen their hand ahead of next year’s general election, African National Congress (ANC) dissidents are planning to force the ruling party into municipal by-elections throughout the country.

Western Cape, Eastern Cape, North West and Free State will see a “barrage” of resignations in coming days, dissidents told Business Day yesterday. The plan was part of a strategy to force party leaders to address their concerns about being marginalised, a rebel source said yesterday.

If an MP or member of the provincial legislature resigns, their party has the prerogative to replace them. At local level, however, if a councillor resigns that ward has to elect a new representative.

Fighting back yesterday, the ANC said the plan would “backfire” as it would only mobilise party structures ahead of elections.

Separately, the ANC responded to weekend reports that the dissidents planned to frustrate bills expected before Parliament this week. Bills to dissolve the Scorpions and the SABC’s board are expected to be tabled in the National Assembly, and the party had instructed its MPs to attend and vote for the party line or lose their seats, party sources said.

The ANC’s parliamentary caucus is also consulting all its MPs to avert the separate resignation of as many as 50 MPs, a plan reported yesterday.
The turmoil in the ANC comes just two weeks before the rebels convene a national convention in Bloemfontein, a meeting expected to presage an alternative party the SABC said last night would be launched on December 16.

In an attempt to “ignite support” for the new party, ANC rebels — including former defence minister Mosiuoa Lekota and former Gauteng premier Mbhazima Shilowa — were yesterday touring the country canvassing support.

A rally by Lekota in Free State drew 2000 and one by Shilowa in Cape Town pulled in 600 people.

In a further move to prevent a mass exodus from the ANC, the party convened weekend regional general councils across the country to consult them. Some of the meetings, addressed by ANC top brass, turned into impromptu rallies.

The rumblings come at the start of the ANC’s list conferences, a process that will decide on party candidates for next year’s poll.

Any party would need 400 candidates at provincial and national level to contest the 2009 election countrywide, according to the Independent Electoral Commission. This will be a challenge.

Shilowa last week admitted that the group had no infrastructure to contest an election. Dissidents may be forced to turn to the Democratic Alliance (DA) for support. “We need organisational capacity,” one source said.
DA leader Helen Zille said yesterday there had been “no formal discussions” with the new party’s organisers and any talk of a working agreement was “premature”.

‘A rally by Lekota in the Free State drew 2000 and one by Shilowa in Cape Town pulled in 600 people’

I'd say this split is great news for the country. The anc was getting too cocky sittin high and mighty with 70% of the vote. Hopefully this new party gets a good result at the election and puts the anc in their place.

The "letter" Mbeki sent to Bra Jacob

"Comrade President, I imagine that these must be especially trying times for you as president of our movement, the ANC, as they are for many of us as ordinary members of our beloved movement, which we have strived to serve loyally for many decades.

I say this to apologise that I impose an additional burden on you by sending you this long letter.

I decided to write this letter after I was informed that two days ago, on October 7, the president of the ANC Youth League and you the following day, October 8, told the country, through the media, that you would require me to campaign for the ANC during the 2009 election campaign.


As you know, neither of you had discussed this with me prior to your announcements. Nobody in the ANC leadership - including you, the presidents of the ANC and ANCYL - has raised this matter with me since then.

To avoid controversy, I have declined all invitations publicly to indicate whether I intended to act as you indicated or otherwise.

In truth your announcements took me by surprise.

This is because earlier you had sent Comrades Kgalema Motlanthe and Gwede Mantashe to inform me that the ANC NEC and our movement in general had lost confidence in me as a cadre of our movement. They informed me that for this reason you suggested that I should resign my position as president of the Republic, which I did.

I therefore could not understand how the same ANC which was so disenchanted with me could, within a fortnight, consider me such a dependable cadre as could be relied upon to promote the political fortunes of the very same movement, the ANC, which I had betrayed in such a grave and grevious manner as to require that I should be removed from the presidency of the Republic a mere six or seven months before the end of our term, as mandated by the masses of our people!

Your public announcements I have mentioned came exactly at the moment when Comrade Mosiuoa "Terror" Lekota and other ANC comrades publicly raised various matters about our movement of concern to them.

I have noted that some in our broad democratic movement have spoken publicly, unfortunately, and wrongly saying that Comrade Terror has acted as they have, driven by their loyalty to me as an individual.

During the decades we have worked together in the ANC, we have had the great fortune that our movement has consistently repudiated the highly noxious phenomenon of the "cult of personality", which we saw manifested in other countries.

It therefore came as a surprise to me that anybody within our revolutionary democratic movement could so much as suggest, and therefore insult somebody like Terror Lekota that he could act as he has, whether rightly or wrongly, driven by attachment to a personal cult!

In this context, given that I have worked longer with you than I have worked with Terror, I would be interested to know your view of any instance in our movement during which it fell victim to the noxious phenomenon of the personality cult, as a result of which it ceased to think, content to act in the manner of the "anointed personality", such as the late Kim Il-Sung determined to the people of North Korea!

Personally, I've been privileged to interact with such varied titans of our struggle such as Oliver Tambo, Moses Kotane, JB Marks, ZK Matthews, Yusuf Dadoo, Mark Shope, Leslie Massina, Duma Nokwe, Moses Mabhida, Frances Baard, Steve Dlamini, Lilian Ngoyi, Walter Sisulu, Gertrude Shope, Govan Mbeki, Julius Nyerere, Raymond Mhlaba, Kenneth Kaunda, Helen Joseph, Trevor Huddleston, Agostinho Neto, Robert Resha, Jack Simons, Seretse Khama, Ray Alexander, Ruth Matseoane, Sam Nujoma, Fish Keitsing, Kate Molale, Ahmed Kathrada, Nelson Mandela, Joshua Nkomo, Samora Machel, MB Yengwa, Ruth and Joe Slovo, Robert Mugabe, Mpho Motsamai, Bram and Molly Fischer, Mike Harmel, Brian and Sonia Bunting, Andrew Mlangeni, Liz Abrahams, Joe Modise, Florence Mophosho, Alfred Nzo, Beyers Naude, Albertina Sisulu, Thomas Nkobi, Sophie de Bruyn, Ellen Khuzwayo, Nomzamo Madikizela-Mandela, Wilton Mkwayi, Alfred Hutchinson, Rusty and Hilda Bernstein, Jack and Rita Hodgson, Cedric Mayson, Thomas Nkobi, Tiny Nokwe, Albert Nolan and many others.

All these, and many others I have not mentioned, were and are true heroines and heroes of our struggle. I have omitted to mention others among these such as Albert Luthuli because I cannot claim truthfully that I have interacted with them in the context of the struggle.

I have mentioned the people I have to make essential and crucial points, central to the value system of our movement and struggle, that none of these heroes or heroines ever sought adulation in any manner that would turn them into cult figures. They never did anything, nor did we act in any way as we grew up in the liberation movement, which would result in our movement being enslaved in the cult of the individual.

In this regard there were exceptional circumstances attached to Comrade Nelson Mandela, which were not of his making or will.

In the context of the global struggle for the release of political prisoners in our country, our movement took a deliberate decision to profile Nelson Mandela as the representative personality of these prisoners, and therefore to use his personal political biography, including the persecution of his then wife, Winnie Mandela, dramatically to present to the world and the South African community the brutality of the apartheid system.

The beginning and the end of this particular discourse is that both of us have grown up in a political atmosphere that we fully respected and honoured our leaders, heroes and heroines without reservation.

However, for me personally, at no point did this translate into "hero worship" and therefore the progression to the phenomenon of the "cult of personality". I know this as a matter of fact that all the heroes and heroines I have mentioned would have opposed the emergence of such a cult with every fibre in their revolutionary bones!

For this reason I find it strange in the extreme that today cadres of our movement attach the label of a "cult of personality" to me, and indeed publicly declare a determination "to kill" to defend your own cause, the personal interests of "the personality", Jacob Zuma!

When we last met, on September 19 2008, at the Denel buildings adjacent to the Oliver Tambo International Airport, I restated to you the incontrovertible fact that you knew that our engagement in the struggle for the liberation of our people had never been informed by a striving for personal power, status or benefit.

In this context I told you that should the ANC NEC, which was meeting from that day, decide that I should no longer serve as president of the Republic, having been the ANC presidential candidate presented to the Second and Third democratic Parliament in 2004, I would respect this decision and therefore resign.

I have been informed informally that you reported this to the ANC NEC at the conclusion of the discussion about this particular matter. I take this opportunity sincerely to thank you for communicating my views to the NEC in this regard.

I mention all this in the light of what I cited earlier - the statements made first by the president of the ANC Youth League and later yourself, concerning the role I would play in the forthcoming 2009 election campaign, which has not been discussed with me.

For some years now our movement has had to manage an immensely challenging and unprecedented situation, occasioned by the criminal charges preferred against you by the National Prosecuting Authority, and related matters.

I state this as a matter of fact with no comment about the merits or demerits of what may have been said and done by anybody or institution in this regard.

I also mention this fact in this letter because, despite our best efforts, many in our movement and our population at large have refused to believe the sincere message both of us strived to communicate, that there were and are no divisions between us, and that nobody should use our names to incite or perpetuate division in the ANC and the country.

When the December 2007 Polokwane ANC National Conference elected you president of the ANC, and responding to Comrade Kgalema Motlanthe's suggestion, I walked with you to the platform, publicly to demonstrate my acceptance of that outcome, as did other Comrades who had been defeated in the electoral process.

When, more recently, the ANC NEC decided that it no longer had confidence in me to serve as its preferred cadre to occupy the position of president of the Republic, I made it a point not to contest this decision, and therefore resigned.

When I addressed the nation on September 21 2008, announcing that I had tendered my resignation as president of the Republic, to the National Assembly as the elective body, I said that I have been a member of the ANC for 52 years.

There is absolutely nothing I have done through this half-a-century of struggle of which I am ashamed. Above all, I know of nothing I have done which, to my knowledge, constitutes a betrayal of the interests of the masses of our people and their confidence in the ANC.

Despite all this, I have taken note of the campaign that some in our ranks, supported by some in our media, have waged for many years focused on discrediting me in particular, given the senior positions I have occupied in the ANC, and the ANC in general.

I have constantly been acutely aware of the fact that this campaign has been based on outright lies and deliberate and malicious distortions.

For many years I have refused to stoop to a public debate driven by these fabrications, which would demean and destroy the dignity of the ANC, its leadership and me personally. I must admit that this posture might have produced results we never intended, specifically as it might have suggested that we could not contest the lies that have been told.

I know that now there are some in our country and elsewhere in the world who appear on television programmes or contribute newspaper opinion columns as "experts" or "analysts", simply on the basis of their readiness to abandon all ethical considerations and self-respect, to propagate entirely fabricated and negative notions about what our national democratic revolution means to our country and people.

Because of the services some of these have rendered to the opponents of the national democratic revolution, the "experts" and "analysts" and others who market themselves as "intellectuals/academics" have been handsomely rewarded with material possessions as embedded opponents of the national democratic revolution.

Yet such is the malaise that has entrenched itself in our democracy, including our movement, that we do not ask the obvious question - how can such "intellectuals/academics" have come to accumulate such wealth?

Bearing in mind everything I have said, let me then address the immediate matters on the national agenda, which relate directly to me.

(1) Comrade Lekota and others have not engaged me in any of the actions they have taken, to secure my approval or otherwise.

(2) The ANC leadership has not engaged me in any of the responses it has taken in this regard, to secure my approval or otherwise.

(3) Informally, I have communicated my view to both these contending groups, members of the ANC, that they should address all matters that might be in contention.

(4) In my President's Political Report to the Polokwane 52nd National Conference of the ANC, presented as prescribed by the ANC constitution, I warned of the grave challenges our movement was facing. I suggested that the conference should discuss these. This was not done. Ten months after this report was presented, I still stand by what it said.

Following the developments of December 2007 and September 2008, relating to tasks I had been given by the ANC, I have considered carefully what I should do as a private South African and African citizen.

Currently I am working as speedily as I can to elaborate the substance of this work, which will ensure that whatever I do in no way involves me in the internal politics of the ANC or the functioning of the government of South Africa.

As the saying goes, I refuse absolutely to rule from the grave. History will judge whether what I did during my political life, until September 25 2008, is worth anything.

Given the December 2007 and September 2008 outcomes to which I have referred, I trust that you will take the necessary measures to:

· Remind all comrades that everything we have done since 1994, to advance the national democratic revolution, has been based on collective decisions of our movement, without exceptions;

· Encourage all Comrades honestly to confront the real problems, challenges and opportunities that the ANC, the broad democratic movement and our country face; and,

· Convince these Comrades to desist from abandoning their revolutionary democratic obligations by falsely and dishonestly pretending that the goals of the national democratic revolution have been frustrated, if they have been, through the actions of one individual - Thabo Mbeki.

I would like to believe that you and I have devoted out adult lives to the victory of the national democratic revolution, and nothing else.

Similarly, I would like to believe that we have always understood that this revolution has as its principal focus the upliftment and empowerment of the millions of our working people, including women, who constitute the overwhelming majority of our people.

Accordingly, we have understood that this revolution has absolutely nothing to do with the personal fortunes of those who might, by virtue of historical accident, be its leaders at any particular moment.

I would like to believe that in this context we agree that the strategic and historic task facing the tried-and-tested leaders and cadres of our movement is to determine what needs to be done, next, to advance the goals of the national democratic revolution, focused on advancing the interests of the millions of the working masses.

In my view, with which you are free to disagree, the revolutionary tasks we confront are to:

· Recognise the various factors that have militated against the achievement of the unity and cohesion of the ANC in the recent past;

· Defeat the actions prevalent in our governance system, especially the provinces and municipalities, to remove from their positions Comrades who are perceived as belonging to factions different from those which currently serve as elected leaders in the current elected ANC structures;

· Renew the democratic movement on the basis of:

· opposition to the cult of personality

· the defeat of careerism and opportunism;

· the defeat of the use of violence in the ANC and the rest of the democratic movement to impose particular leadership cliques interested in winning government tenders for themselves and their friends;

· the defeat of bureaucratic parasitic tendency leading to the abuse of state power for self-enrichment;

· the rejection of the phenomenon of the emergence of a black compradore bourgeosie which, in the context of BBBEE, is ready to front both for the domestic white and international capitalists;

· commitment to the implementation of a socio-economic programme focused on economic growth and development, the restructuring and development of our economy, reducing unemployment and poverty, and sharing the wealth of our country in terms of our national, class and gender categories.

Nobody, and I believe the leadership of the ANC above all others, can ignore the conclusion that today our country stands at a particular crossroad.

This means that the decisions we take today will impact on our country and the masses of our people for a considerable number of years.

I am confident that the decisions the leadership of the ANC will take in this regard, with you at its head, will indeed advance the goals of the national democratic revolution to which so many of us, led by the veterans of our movement, have dedicated our lives.

As a small plea in this regard, I appeal that nobody should abuse or cite my name falsely to promote their partisan cause, including how the 2009 ANC election campaign will be conducted.

Amandla! Matla!

Thabo Mbeki

I now acsually admire Mbeki!

Did anyone catch the creatively named SANC's conference on SABC 2?

From my analysis and listening to political commentators, the "quite diplomacy" is part of the ANC's constitution to achieve the emancipation among the party and Mbeki was aligning to what the party believes in and Im glad that he now became vocal via that letter. His approach is deemed as autocratic and I'm part of the herd that believed so but my respect to this man of intergrity has been restored. The ANC is run by liars and self enrichers who don't care about the needs of the poor.

The "letter" Mbeki sent to Bra Jacob

I know that now there are some in our country and elsewhere in the world who appear on television programmes or contribute newspaper opinion columns as "experts" or "analysts", simply on the basis of their readiness to abandon all ethical considerations and self-respect, to propagate entirely fabricated and negative notions about what our national democratic revolution means to our country and people.

Because of the services some of these have rendered to the opponents of the national democratic revolution, the "experts" and "analysts" and others who market themselves as "intellectuals/academics" have been handsomely rewarded with material possessions as embedded opponents of the national democratic revolution.


Who are "these" supposed to be?
Typical of Mbeki: accusational but allusive, pointing fingers but looking in another direction (i.e. not brave enough to account for his unproved accusations), stuck in a revolutionary rhetoric, and discreetly adding Robert Mugabe in the list of struggle heroes he admires...

The "letter" Mbeki sent to Bra Jacob



· the rejection of the phenomenon of the emergence of a black compradore bourgeosie which, in the context of BBBEE, is ready to front both for the domestic white and international capitalists;




Correction: the enemies are identified: Whites (and international capitalists)...

I now refer you guys to the "emigration" thread...

Don't come here and cause trouble. That's all I'm saying.

Whatever.

Who are "these" supposed to be?
Typical of Mbeki: accusational but allusive, pointing fingers but looking in another direction (i.e. not brave enough to account for his unproved accusations), stuck in a revolutionary rhetoric, and discreetly adding Robert Mugabe in the list of struggle heroes he admires...

Did you ask yourself as to why the ANC never wanted to publish Mbeki's letter? Why no one reacted to what Mbeki said after the letter was published? Mbeki is a man of honour and an architect of economical revolution that Africa is currently experiencing.

One disease that is more severe than AIDS and Ibola is "being ill-informed". Playing the race card especially with Mbeki shows how narrow minded you are.

A warning to all foreigners who think they understand S.African politics and socio-economics.

I'm an American-South African who has lived in SA since I was 6. I know from being on the outside and the inside. You MUST have lived in SA for decades to understand the complexity of her people, her past and her politics. Do not attempt to pretend that watching CNN, SKY or BBC gives you any insight into us, you have to have your feet firmly planted here to really grasp the way our complexities operate.

If I had a dollar for everytime an American claimed they "knew" about our problems and how to solve them, I'd be a billionaire (and not in Zimbabwe :), here).

How many decades exactly?

piss off and come back when you're informed. You make an idiot look smart.

How many decades exactly?

^^classic case of how spectators think they know, do your self a favour and get off south african politics before you look more stupit.

How many decades exactly?

It all depends which ones.

Goodbye

The decades that really matter... all the way from Apartheid, thru State of Emergencies, thru to Mandela's release, to our first democratic election, thru to all the changes up till now...

Now pretend you know something in Brazil (stop hammering on issues you have no first-hand knowledge of) and stop acting like the Super-Intelligent-Ultra-Informed-All-Knowing! I'm sure you'd like it if South Africans were lecturing your ass on how South American and Brazilian politics works. Watching CNN or reading articles on the complexity of Latin America does not make me a specialist on how your socio-economics works.

Some people just are devoid of reason, logic, IQ or tact!!!

The decades that really matter... all the way from Apartheid, thru State of Emergencies, thru to Mandela's release, to our first democratic election, thru to all the changes up till now...

Now pretend you know something in Brazil (stop hammering on issues you have no first-hand knowledge of) and stop acting like the Super-Intelligent-Ultra-Informed-All-Knowing! I'm sure you'd like it if South Africans were lecturing your ass on how South American and Brazilian politics works. Watching CNN or reading articles on the complexity of Latin America does not make me a specialist on how your socio-economics works.

Some people just are devoid of reason, logic, IQ or tact!!!

Wow, that's quite a few South Africans who can't understand their own country then...

By the way, you're welcome to comment on Brazilian politics if you wish and if you're interested, Brazil is a very open and welcoming country, no "right of admission reserved" or "locals only" here.

Wow, that's quite a few South Africans who can't understand their own country then...

We live in the country. We have our past presented to us on a daily basis. So yes, many of us have not lived through all of said time periods, but we certainly know what said time periods involved.

Secondly, anyone is allowed to comment on our politics - feel free - but don't try to come across as if your opinion (which is a rather uninformed one) is fact without expecting people to get annoyed.

Wow, that's quite a few South Africans who can't understand their own country then...
I do not comment on Brazilian politics, as I'm not as knowledgeable as a local and would sound arrogant, ignorant or both. Just like the above comment... it's not the fact that one asks questions or makes statements, it's untoward comments like the above that annoy S.Africans, as we generally are extremely polite, well mannered people that do not resort to such one-line jabs in a debate to get our point across.

You guys are funny. Just a bit rude, though.

We aim to please. Oh, and likewise ;)

So back to the point: would any of you guys be so kind as to explain to me who exactly Thabo Mbeki is referring to when he writes (I stressed some words):

"I know that now there are some in our country and elsewhere in the world who appear on television programmes or contribute newspaper opinion columns as "experts" or "analysts", simply on the basis of their readiness to abandon all ethical considerations and self-respect, to propagate entirely fabricated and negative notions about what our national democratic revolution means to our country and people.

Because of the services some of these have rendered to the opponents of the national democratic revolution, the "experts" and "analysts" and others who market themselves as "intellectuals/academics" have been handsomely rewarded with material possessions as embedded opponents of the national democratic revolution."

These are serious allegations he's making, almost sounds like treason...

It's not really treason, I think he refers more to the "moral high ground" those in the ANC NEC and Zuma Camp tried to assume, but recalling him as president, on unfounded grounds (Mbeki not charged or tried) based simply on an assumption Judge Nicholson made in the Zuma corruption trail in Pietermaritzburg. He's not necessarily implicating people in treason, but implicating ANC members as being hypocritical.

One of the main threads throughout Mbeki's letter to Zuma was referrals to the "personality cult" that has become Jacob Zuma, that he does not approve of and of the ANC putting personality above the Freedom Charter, the country as a whole and the ANC as a liberation movement and now, political party.

The Zuma/Mbeki issue is complex... and in my opinion, a decision the ANC will deeply regret come the next election. Rather than simply allow Mbeki to finish out his term, then change the guard nationally, they chose to internationally humiliate him (not months shy of Zuma probably becoming president anyway).

The ANC will loose many councils and probably the Northern and Western Cape provinces. They may even fall close to 50% of the national vote should the new SADC (under Lekota and Shilowa) garner as much support as many believe can be done. Should they only get 49%, they may loose parliament and the presidency if opposition parties go through on their word to form coalitions to oust the ANC from a majority.

http://vne-resource.iol.co.za/6/images/breakingnews/site_header_1.jpg

Shikota could wield power through coalition

2008-11-04 18:04:02

November 04, 2008 Edition 1

Christelle Terreblanche

South Africa's newest political party is unlikely to win the 2009 poll - but if it were to take just 15% of the vote and reduce the ANC's hold to under 50%, the so-called Shikota Express could be in a position to form a coalition government with opposition parties.

It is a long shot. But opposition parties have already agreed tacitly to consider working together towards a multi-party government.

The astonishing development of a completely changed political landscape in the space of a few weeks has given rise to euphoria among ANC dissidents that may be premature. It may be that some of the thrill will fade now that the decision to form a party has been taken and the hard work of consolidating an election platform begins. Five months is the blink of an eye in election planning.

But clearly a fight is on the cards.

The formal announcement of the breakaway party this weekend left no doubt that erstwhile comrades are set to go head to head in a fierce battle for the former party faithful swept aside by the Jacob Zuma tsunami at Polokwane.

Fur is already flying as the ANC appeared to launch its election campaign early with a mass rally in Soweto this weekend addressed by Zuma - just hours after Mbhazima Shilowa and Mosiuoa Lekota announced their new party.

It is now clear that Thabo Mbeki's sacking as president by Zuma's ANC six weeks ago served as a catalyst for the official party split that, in retrospect, seems almost inevitable, given the bitter divide that the ANC's national conference at Polokwane in December exposed.

Overtures to reconcile the 60-40 chasm between the delegates in favour of Zuma is no longer an option - even as President Kgalema Motlanthe, Zuma's ANC deputy, this weekend again called for unity and predicted the splinter group would return to the fold. Instead, the rebels stepped up allegations of "purges" of Mbeki "third-termers" and "forty-percenters" from ANC branches and structures countrywide.

Evidence of the heightened animosity was the ANC's urgent court interdict against the dissidents on Friday, which aimed to stop the rebel leaders from infringing on the nearly 97-year-old ANC liberation brand by adopting a copycat name.

Increasingly bitter language has been exchanged across a now irreversible divide, with Zuma this weekend describing the dissidents as "snakes" and "bigamists", suggesting they are not yet divorced from the ANC but already climbing in bed with the opposition Democratic Alliance (DA).

Lekota, the former ANC chair, on the other hand, warned the 4 000-plus convention delegates that the ruling party's new leadership was set to create a "new legacy" of apartheid-style inequalities because they were bent on abusing power for personal interests.

Saturday's convention delegates spewed anger at the ANC, intimating that the public should fear the ruling party because it was threatening not only the rule of law and independence of the judiciary, but also the Constitutional principles agreed to at multi-party talks before 1994. For ANC loyalists on both sides of the divide, the split is as agonising and traumatic as a church being torn apart, a belief system collapsing.

Yet, tensions between nationalist moderates and more revolutionary "socialists" have existed in the ANC since the 1950s, with uncomfortable compromises occasionally papering over the cracks.

A year ago, going it alone at the polls was still a fall-back position being considered by the ANC's alliance partners, Cosatu and the SA Communist Party, as hostility towards Mbeki's government intensified. In the end they played a significant role in the victory of Zuma's allies at Polokwane, leaving the Mbeki "moderates" out in the cold.

Many observers believe that there is little ideological difference at play and that the animosity is rather evidence of two contending streams of patronage.


Since December, the intra-party feud has spilled into the public arena. This culminated in what many voters regarded as an unsavoury dismissal of Mbeki from office, a tit-for-tat move following his 2005 axing of Zuma.

So far, the splinter group has managed to tap into the somewhat alarmed public sentiment - convincingly, if this is be measured by the participation of all but two of the main opposition parties in their National Convention on Saturday.

The presence of DA leader Helen Zille and the Independent Democrats' Patricia de Lille is an indication that they concur with the rebels' position on upholding the values of the South African Constitution.

Perhaps the most significant outcome of the convention is that there is now tacit agreement between the rebels and opposition parties to consider a multi-party coalition that could break the ANC's two-thirds majority hold on power.

For the dissidents, the first prize is to gain at least 15% of the vote which could push the ANC's support under 50%. This could result in a hung parliament and give the new party a chance to form the government through a broad coalition.

Saturday's convention did not, however, deliver the promised mass exodus of top politicians from the ANC. Interim leaders are still promising a staggered series of resignations ahead of the elections which would allow some top brass to hold onto their deployments till the last minute. They are also hinting that there may be a Cosatu breakaway.

The dissidents' draft aims and principles tap into issues that many civil society and opposition groups have raised as concerns - such as the need for electoral reform to allow voters a more direct choice of political representatives and enhanced accountability to the electorate. The rebels are also capitalising on public outrage over the new ANC leadership's attacks on the judiciary and hasty disposal of the Scorpions.

The ANC's counterblows have mostly struck at the "Shikota" group's flirtation with liberal, largely white, opposition parties. The rebels' inference that the ANC was set to plunder the country through allocation of positions and patronage, has been met by charges of hypocrisy and comment that the claims were coming from politicians under whose government careerism and elite enrichment flourished.

The breakaway group will struggle to shake off perceptions that it is a party of bourgeois fat cats. It is no secret that a number of its campaigners benefited handsomely from black economic empowerment when poverty remained entrenched.

At Sunday's Soweto rally, Zuma strategically anchored the ANC's fight-back on these perceptions, and in a clear effort to reclaim support, spelled out pro-poor policy priorities for the ANC's election platform.

The new party will have to hastily put out concrete policy proposals and fresh ideas if it is to survive an election campaign that is likely to be robust, if not vicious. It will be conscious too that it has to make significant inroads into an increasingly disaffected electorate.

So far its popular campaigning has mostly relied on evoking struggle milestones and icons, from the Freedom Charter to slain SACP leader Chris Hani to Nelson Mandela.

Mbeki has stayed out of the frame but has chastised the ANC for suggesting he would campaign for it.

The new party's launch is scheduled for Reconciliation Day, December 16, in Bloemfontein, where the ANC was born in 1912.

Time will tell if the party can muster meaningful support but the ANC split is nevertheless a sign that a more democratic realignment of South African political landscape is under way.

10/11/2008 14:12 - (SA)

Cape Town - The Democratic Alliance is to "relaunch" itself in order to grow its support base, party leader Helen Zille said on Monday.

Briefing the media at Parliament, she said the event would take place in Johannesburg on Saturday.

The change was aimed at attracting people "who share our values, but who have not historically supported us" to vote DA in next year's national and provincial elections.

Describing the relaunch as a "fundamental shift" for the DA, she said it was prompted by research and analysis that suggested it was time for the party to move from being a party of opposition to a party of governance.

DA chief strategist Ryan Coetzee told journalists the SA political landscape had changed fundamentally.

He said Saturday's relaunch would see the DA becoming "fundamentally different" with changes to the party's style and approach. It was "going to look quite different too".

Zille said research showed there were many South Africans who shared the DA's values, but who did not vote for the party.

She said the DA's strategy over the medium term involved looking to win "one or two" provinces in next year's election, winning "many major cities" in the 2011 municipal elections, and taking over at national level in 2014.

==========================================================

I seriously find it hard not to laugh! :clown:
...Wanting to laugh because Ms Zille's head must have grown oversize after her 'world best mayor' award; not laughing, because I foresee the DA joining the new CoP.

Someone seems to be getting a little nervous... rather turning to petty tactics than actually delivering a decent election campaign and cohesive party of delivery. :lol:

ANC to try blocking new party name

November 10 2008 at 08:51AM

By Mogomotsi Magome

The ANC is taking legal advice on the use of the name Congress of the People for the breakaway party under the leadership of dissident Mosiuoa Terror Lekota, a spokesperson said on Friday.

"We are going to take legal advice... the name, the Congress of the People, is an event in the calendar of the ANC," party spokesperson Jessie Duarte said.

"It's the function, where in 1955, the Freedom Charter was adopted."

She said the ANC led the campaign with the Natal Indian Congress and the Coloured People Congress to collect clauses for the charter. "They then convened a meeting called the Congress of the People," said Duarte.




She said the ANC is also known as "Khongolose" - "congress" in isiZulu.

"We need to protect the ANC from this group of mavericks who seem to be bankrupt politicians."

The new organisation has struggled to find an appropriate name.

First, it called itself the South African National Congress, but abandoned the name after it became clear that the ANC would object.

It then chose the South African Democratic Congress, but was forced to drop it when it discovered that a party of that name had been registered with the Independent Electoral Commission.

# Meanwhile, a registration station in Ward 24, Winterveld, north of the city, was closed down after a disgruntled residents' protest on Saturday.

They came bearing placards complaining about a lack of municipal services like electricity and water.

Police spokesperson Inspector Paul Ramatlo said they left peacefully when instructed to, vowing not to vote in 2009

I seriously find it hard not to laugh! :clown:
...Wanting to laugh because Ms Zille's head must have grown oversize after her 'world best mayor' award; not laughing, because I foresee the DA joining the new CoP.
A little far fetched in my opinion too... but, if you aim for the stars, you may just hit the moon!

I seriously find it hard not to laugh! :clown:
...Wanting to laugh because Ms Zille's head must have grown oversize after her 'world best mayor' award; not laughing, because I foresee the DA joining the new CoP.

It's called foresight. She not says that they WILL rule...she is AIMING for the DA to rule by then. Just look at what has happened to the ANC in the past few months. Think of it this way - if the DA successfully "rebrand" themselves, the opposition work together and the ANC continue on their downward spiral, I think the DA have a very good chance at ruling some point down the line.

As a first time voter they will definitely be getting my vote.

Apparently, Zille is re-branding the party to employ similar strategies used by the Obama campaign. I'm waiting patiently to see what will come of it...might be that they will do a 'Zille 2009' and market the campaign more towards her and less to the DA. That might actually be successful.


She said the ANC is also known as "Khongolose" - "congress" in isiZulu.


By this logic, they can also sue the PAC which has 2/3 of the the ANC's name whereas the COP only has 1/3...

The ANC is just pissing off more people with these petty tactics. It is clearly looking like they're grasping at straws and don't believe in democracy as they seem "sore losers" and unable to handle the thought of "loss of power." Using words that vindictive children on a playground use to describe the people in the CoP, pathetic! The opponents to the ANC are correct in saying that the intellectuals no longer exist in the party, except for Kgalema (thank God!). Just look at the militant, childish and politically-incorrect verbage they use. This is the party of Mandela, Tambo, the party of liberation... They're SAD, I'm so disappointed. :ohno:

Anyways, maybe a Zille'09 ticket would work, I know for one here in the Western Cape, almost everyone knows her name, and generally respects her. Can't speak for the other 8 provinces though. Any campaign that can be like Obama's in its efficiency, message and charisma is bound to take a number of extra votes! :)

Not discounting Patricia, she has quite a "cult" following.

ACDP 2%
ANC 28%
CoP 22%
DA 45%
ID 12%
VF 1%

Just a lame prediction... no Poll of Polls or Markinor Survey... just me being political-silly! :nuts:

Zuma says no to Zille debate
11/11/2008 19:23 - (SA)

Johannesburg - ANC president Jacob Zuma was adamant on Tuesday at a Johannesburg luncheon with editors that he would not debate directly with Democratic Alliance leader Helen Zille - or the new ANC breakaway party - on policy matters.

They should rather take their policies directly to the electorate, as the ANC would, he said.

Zille recently challenged Zuma to a public debate on policies after he told a party rally he was ready to engage the policies of the breakaway Congress of the People (COP) when these were set out.

Zille's challenge was rejected.

Editors wanted to know again if Zuma was prepared to debate with Zille and the COP.

Zuma replied the issue was rather what Zille was trying to achieve with her challenge. It was not clear.

"We are left to speculate. There could be a suspicion that here is a person trying to elevate herself by debating with the ruling party."

How f&%king arrogant are you Zuma!?:ohno:

The ANC believed it should go directly to the electorate with its own policies.

"Why should we go to the opposition to debate the policy? Zille should go to the electorate herself."

The ANC president reiterated he had not said at the rally that he was ready to engage in policy debate with the COP. What he had said was that he was ready to engage their policies.

- SAPA

All Democracies engage in debate! Look how many McCain and Obama had. The ANC is proving themselves more contemptuous of democracy and true democratic discourse at every turn. I'm starting to get very angry at this "new" vicious, condescending, petty and self-serving ANC.

Zuma is a chicken, he is so inarticulate, he lacks reason, never says anything profound (i bet he wouldn't even crack the "i am an african"), he can't get into core issues, when he stood in front of those students at the NY University he nearly crapped his pants hoping they'd never ask too challenging questions, they never did. thank god, to save us the embarrassment. I KNOW IF I COULD HAVE A PUBLIC DEBATE WITH HIM I'D PUT HIM TO SHAME! :lol:

south african politics? all still about race groups, thats the reason why Zille won't stand a chance. after a few generations racial lines will blur-out. this generation knows too much about the past. the emotional connection with old "noble" ANC is too much, people (especially blacks) vote ANC because it feels right, which is rather immature (can't blame them i still feel it's kinda right to vote ANC, but hell I WONT DO IT)

the truth is blacks think white people would be discriminative if they are in power again, and white people think blacks are out to get them. so with these dilemmas you surely cant expect a non racial ballot. :ohno:

ja ne. "al dra n aap n goue ring, hy bly steed n lelike ding." In this case, one could go further with "Eventhough a monkey carries a golden pen, he still doesn't know how to use it!" :lol:

^^ i wouldn't be using those kinds of personifications if i where you.

wouldn't it be nice is south african politics had debates?

in some small way these politicians would be have to be resposible for promises/ actions /strategies they plan to involve themselves in...

right now everyone hides behind the 'policies of the party'
and no one is liable for anything!

Exactly. Debates are what we need.

It's called foresight. She not says that they WILL rule...she is AIMING for the DA to rule by then. Just look at what has happened to the ANC in the past few months. Think of it this way - if the DA successfully "rebrand" themselves, the opposition work together and the ANC continue on their downward spiral, I think the DA have a very good chance at ruling some point down the line.

As a first time voter they will definitely be getting my vote.

I am inclined to agree with Lydon. I think that Zille has proved herself OVER and OVER again as a competent leader of both Cape Town and the DA. Hats off to her...she has my vote.

^^ trouble with this is the party name DA aka DP - she would have alot more success under a lable like the patricia's independant demos.. rate the stigma attached to the DA is difficult for some. talkin old school ppl

^^ The only reason the DA has a problem is one reason and one reason only... as if you know the political history of this country, the DP was the party in the "Apartheid Years" of those that could vote that wanted liberalisation and change. They were anti-Nat, anti-Apartheid. Zille's family was part of Black-Sash!!! Yes, it's true.

The DA's biggest mistake... climbing into bed with those NP, then NNP, morons. Then the NNP morons ran to the ANC, then they collapsed like a flan in a hot cupboard! That's were the now DA got their probably unfair "right-wing" label from. The DA never took on NNP policies, the DP at the merger was the dominant partner.

amen!
btw collapsed like a flan in a hot cupboard - priceless bru

ACDP 2%
ANC 28%
CoP 22%
DA 45%
ID 12%
VF 1%

Just a lame prediction... no Poll of Polls or Markinor Survey... just me being political-silly! :nuts:

Interesting prediction... Is there any political polling done in South Africa on a regular basis that can give insight in the popularity of the parties at the moment?

Also, I'm wondering whether WC might be the only province where the ANC might be forced into the opposition... I can imagine that an ID/DA combination might become big enough in NC to get a majority, and who knows what might happen in Gauteng... And what about the EC, I wonder what the mood is there towards the ANC without Mbeki? Please share your opinions / insights, and let's hope the ANC loses its majority next year in as many places as possible!

Interesting prediction... Is there any political polling done in South Africa on a regular basis that can give insight in the popularity of the parties at the moment?

Also, I'm wondering whether WC might be the only province where the ANC might be forced into the opposition... I can imagine that an ID/DA combination might become big enough in NC to get a majority, and who knows what might happen in Gauteng... And what about the EC, I wonder what the mood is there towards the ANC without Mbeki? Please share your opinions / insights, and let's hope the ANC loses its majority next year in as many places as possible!

I do not think the ANC will be ousted in any province except for the WC and even there no party will win it outright. The ANC two thirds is a virtual certainty due to demographics. Declining white population, growing black population, stagnant Indian population.

As for the COPE, it is more likely to take votes away from the DA and ID than the ANC. This is exactly what happened in Namibia in 1999 when a ruling party minister from Swapo started his own party, the CoD (Congress of Democrats) - not far off from COPE. In Namibia the CoD never received more than 10% of the vote while Swapo continued to receive 80%. Instead of affecting Swapo, the CoD had further splintered an already divided opposition and only displaced the mainly-white Democratic Turnhalle Alliance (DTA). Sound familiar as history tends to repeat itself, at least in our part of the continent.

New party to dent DA, ANC

November 08 2008 at 09:11AM

The new kid on the political block - The Congress of the People - will dent the support of both the ANC and the DA, while opposition leader Helen Zille is trying to court Archbishop Desmond Tutu.

Zille said on Friday she met Tutu to discuss the cleric's decision not to vote because he was disappointed with the ANC.

"I was disappointed by his remark, which I viewed as an abdication of responsibility by a person of great moral authority, and so I made an appointment to see him.

"I had a very constructive discussion with the archbishop and have undertaken to send him the executive summaries of all our revised policies so that he has the opportunity to see for himself what an open opportunity society for all means in practice, and that there is a real alternative to the ANC," she wrote in her online newsletter yesterday.

Her comments come as the South African Institute of Race Relations has speculated that the DA could suffer greater losses than the ANC due to the emergence of the breakaway party.

"Much has been written about the threat posed to the ANC by Mosiuoa Lekota and his breakaway; a greater threat arguably exists to the DA whose centre-right position in South African politics could now face a credible challenge for the first time," the institute said yesterday.

"If the ANC is concerned (about the breakaway faction), the DA should be doubly so. Lekota's policy platform will in all probability be based very closely on what is wrong in the ANC.

"The DA's problem is that Lekota will be better at this than they are. He will carry substantially more credibility because of his background in the party and because he is black," said the institute.

The institute said that "by default the DA has occupied the otherwise vacant centre-right position on the South African political spectrum".

"On the policy front it was required to do relatively little to earn this position due both to the absence of large alternative opposition parties and to the strong centre-left leanings of the ANC.

These breakaways may come to challenge the DA's default political position which it may then struggle to retain," the institute said.

However, the institute mentioned that with just under 50 MPs and an excellent parliamentary caucus leader "the DA was still well positioned to meet this threat but had to move swiftly and skillfully to do so".

On the other hand, political analyst Lawrence Schlemmer speculates that the new party could get as much as 20 percent of the votes.

His prediction, during an interview with Moneyweb, was based on a survey by MarkData - conducted between April and June - which showed that the ANC enjoyed the support of 70,5 percent of those polled, a decrease from the previous poll.

The DA significantly increased its support to 20,6 percent of respondents.

The survey also found that about 40 percent of ANC supporters polled expressed dissatisfaction with the performance of government and a similar percentage felt the country was moving in the wrong direction.

However, Zuma said on Friday that "only the ANC has the policies and capacity to get South Africans working together".

"We are confident the ANC will win 2009's elections with an overwhelming majority, even better than the last time.

"We will win because we have superior policies and we know that the ongoing process of transformation and reconstruction needs to be driven by the people.

"The people need to decide which direction this process should take and which organisation should have a mandate to undertake this process in government," he said.

However, Zille said: "Zuma continues to demonstrate his ignorance by claiming that we have no policies, and therefore no right to exist - but he consistently refuses to debate any policies with us on any public platform, as he did twice this week".



This article was originally published on page 6 of Saturday Argus on November 08, 2008

Four DA MPs could defect to new party

November 11, 2008, 13:30

Democratic Alliance (DA) Parliamentary leader Sandra Botha says the DA does not rule out the possibility that some of its members of Parliament would defect to the new party. An analyst has been quoted as saying that the DA could bleed more than the ANC by losing members to the new party.

At least four DA MPs are allegedly planning to jump ship January next year. Although Botha dismissed the suggestion that the four MPs would defect, she says nothing is impossible. She says this would not come as a surprise because some members would jump ship if they discover that they are not on the party list. Two of the four DA MPs who allegedly intend jumping ship are from the Western Cape Province while one is apparently from the Eastern Cape.

Meanwhile, six former ANC councillors in the West Coast District have joined the Congress of the People. This is according to coordinator for the breakaway party in the region, Onel De Beer. Recently five ward councilors in the Drakenstein Municipality in the Boland were expelled from the ANC. Four other former ANC ward councilors in the City of Cape Town also resigned recently. De Beer, who is a former ANC PEC member, says they will contest by elections on the West Coast next month.

All systems go for registration of new party
Mosiuoa Lekota has said that it's all systems go to register the party with Independent Electoral Commission.

The party announced last week that it would register with the IEC yesterday but Lekota says this has not happened simply because the party first needs to place a notice of its activities in the Government Gazette this Friday.

According to IEC regulations, a political party which wants to contest elections at national, provincial and local level is required to submit proof of its notice of publication in the Government Gazette at the point of registration. Government gazettes are published once-weekly on Fridays.

SABC News

I do not think the ANC will be ousted in any province except for the WC and even there no party will win it outright. The ANC two thirds is a virtual certainty due to demographics. Declining white population, growing black population, stagnant Indian population.

As for the COPE, it is more likely to take votes away from the DA and ID than the ANC. This is exactly what happened in Namibia in 1999 when a ruling party minister from Swapo started his own party, the CoD (Congress of Democrats) - not far off from COPE. In Namibia the CoD never received more than 10% of the vote while Swapo continued to receive 80%. Instead of affecting Swapo, the CoD had further splintered an already divided opposition and only displaced the mainly-white Democratic Turnhalle Alliance (DTA). Sound familiar as history tends to repeat itself, at least in our part of the continent.

rate the ANC will be more effected than the DA - the standoff is between da new kid and the AnC..

Zuma knows Zille will cream him

The ANC two thirds is a virtual certainty due to demographics. Declining white population, growing black population, stagnant Indian population.


die kapenaar: that is such a loose statement..
i get what you are trying to say...but.....

^^ I agree... there most disillusioned voters are ANC voters, and they may vote COPE, but many will likely just "stay-away." The DA and the ID have gained support since the previous election. Demographics purely on race cannot be the total basis of what may happen in 2009. Also, the "black diamonds" are more likely to vote more moderate. Urban and more educated black people will tend to take their vote from the ANC to another party, likely ID or COPE, a small few perhaps DA, and they are a very fast growing part of the demographic.

Also, eventhough articles say some support to COPE may come from the DA, we have to look at the swath of resignations in the Cape and Gauteng to the "ShiKota alliance" and that constituencies, even ANC strongholds in the Cape like Philippi, have said they will vote along with their councillors. The DA/ID may loose some votes, but COPE is primarily bringing in the disgruntled, disillusioned ANC member and voter.

The ANC just made 67% last election. They have, even prior to the split, lost a little support in national Markinor polls. Now, afterwards, they will loose a lot more, a 2/3's majority, I believe, is out of the reach of the ANC.

This is NOT a bad thing at all!!!! :)

EDIT: Provinces for the ANC

WC: Lost
EC: Loss of support, still ANC
NC: Teetering on loss
NW: Loss of supoort, still ANC
GP: Huge loss of support, still ANC (may need coalition)
FS: Loss of support, still ANC
KN: ANC strong
MP: ANC strong
LP: ANC strong

Again, one of my lame predictions! :)

I personally don't think they'll get the 2/3rds majority.

My prediction is that COPE will take Gauteng. ANC will lose both Western & Northern Cape. Perhaps even Eastern Cape & Kwazulu Natal where COPE might take it away with coalitions.

KZN is always damn tricky! Don't know much about their local politics. I know Zuma has a lot of support there, due in part to his Zulu heritage, but the IFP could help wrestle away some support should they campaign tactically and intelligently. If there is any coalition, seems the IFP will hold the key... not 100% sure though.

Found this opinion piece on www.iol.co.za... think it's nicely put together and has some valid points. Maybe a bit verbose and takes a while to get to the point, but a decent point is indeed made IMO. One issue I think is stupid though; Afrikaaners and calling people of colour "baboons", come'on, no Afrikaaner is dumb enough to think that it was ever "lighthearted" to call someone of colour that! :)

Article...
Barack Obama is an ordinary human being, seriously flawed in many ways. So why is he energising and inspiring so many Americans, Africans and people from all over the world?

Symbolism. He is a symbol of the ability to redeem one self, as America has done by electing him. A symbol of the possibility that one can overcome almost any obstacle and achieve one's dreams. He is a symbol of youth stepping on to the world stage to correct the mistakes of the older generations. He symbolises a huge step forward for the struggle against racism and prejudice.

This is how powerful symbolism can be. We know a lot about symbolism on the Mother Continent. Symbolism has been a defining part of African spirituality and culture since the earliest times. And yet so many of our political leaders treat symbolism with great recklessness. I don't think this is a result of ignorance. It can only be calculated.

Take ANC president Jacob Zuma's repeated reference to his political opponents - first the Thabo Mbeki administration, then the leaders of the breakaway Congress of the People (Cope)- as snakes.

In the Bible and in African mythology, in fact in probably most cultures in the world, a snake symbolises something evil, disgusting and threatening. It has no worth in itself. There is only one way to treat a snake: crush its head.

Another example: Gauteng MEC Angie Motshekga called the Cope leadership dogs. To call someone a dog is a vicious insult in African culture. A scavenging dog deserves to be kicked or knocked senseless.

Even in English one talks about treating someone like a dog or someone who was chased away like a dog.

It is also considered a serious insult in black culture to call someone a baboon or an ape. In Afrikaans culture, this is not an insult at all, rather a light-hearted or humorous reference. A few Afrikaners have learnt about this cultural difference the hard way in recent years. If an Afrikaner refers to a black person as a baboon today, one can be sure he or she had evil and racist intent.

The springbok has become a powerful symbol of our sport, and particularly rugby, prowess. Rugby itself is embedded in rich symbolism of masculinity, competitiveness and national pride. For many decades the springbok had special meaning to, especially white, Afrikaners, but the symbolic content of the springbok changed meaningfully and fundamentally during the 1995 Rugby World Cup.

The minute Nelson Mandela, wearing a Springbok jersey, went on to the podium in Ellis Park with Francois Pienaar to receive the trophy, the springbok became the property of all South Africans. In fact, I think it would be fair to say that the springbok contains the symbolism of many Afrikaner males' acceptance of the new democratic order.

And yet the ruling party allows its leaders to toy with this symbol every time they yearn for a bit of publicity. Virtually every year during the last decade someone in the ANC has popped up to call the springbok a hateful symbol of apartheid that should be replaced by a flower. Not even the whole-hearted endorsement of powerful leaders symbolising our freedom like Mandela and Desmond Tutu is stopping these cheap populists.

The ANC has played a similar game with place names, another powerful form of symbolism. It is important for the majority to see the names of towns and streets that offend them changed and their heroes and historical figures reflected. But if it is done in an arrogant, hostile manner, as has mostly been the case, it hurts and insults the minority groups unnecessarily.

I recently returned from a month-long trip to the states of the former Yugoslavia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Serbia, Kosovo, Croatia. Place names, language and symbolism are extremely fragile commodities in these places where communities were in violent conflict until recently. Nobody in the Balkans with peaceful intentions would ever think of treating things of symbolic importance to the different communities with any disrespect.

This brings me to a special appeal to the man who is likely to be our president, Jacob Zuma. Every time he is on a public stage, he performs his famous dance steps and his song Umshini wam'.

We all know it is a proud old song of the days of armed resistance against apartheid. But Zuma has to face the fact that there is the real threat of political conflict between his supporters and supporters of the Cope. He also has to realise that he is now the leader of the majority party and our future president, and no longer just a politician trying to move up the ranks.

And he has to face the fact that, symbolically, his signature song refers to violent conflict - destroying your opponent by force. It is time for Zuma to stop asking his people to pass him his machine gun.

This is just my opinion, not the opinion of any newspaper, group or organisation.

But, after news that has come to light this morning after an incident in Verulam, KZN, I declare Zuma and his new ANC a danger to the future of South Africa. :ohno:

COPE was to have a meeting last night in Verulam, reported by the Mercury this morning, which was then abruptly disrupted by ANC supporters wearing Zuma t-shirts, toyi-toying, but thank God, brandishing no weapons.

The police has to be called in the disperse the group and Lekota had to turn around near the venue, as his security was under threat. Now, here's the kicker, and this ANC supporter shows what "unintelligent and irresponsible" leadership in Africa can cultivate.

After Malema's "kill" this, "kill" that comments, I was worried, but not until the actual party president insights violence would I have made this statement, but now, the ANC leadership has proved they are downright dangerous.

Zuma's "Snakes" comments have insighted violence, as one ANC supporter told the media last night (and see the above opinion piece about it too), "My mother taught me to kill a snake, and these traitors of the ANC are snakes and must be killed!"

Zuma is well aware of the implications of a "snake" in most cultures and particularly African culture, but chose those words to describe his new opponents. Next step is him also saying "kill for the ANC."

Zuma and all his supporters and henchmen are a threat to peace, political-freedom and our democracy. My patience with him is now over.

Down with the dog who is zuma and his supporters. i love snakes especially mambas.

ANC: Cut Motlanthe coverage
16/11/2008 00:07 - (SA)

Johannesburg - The ANC has allegedly ordered the SABC to reduce its coverage of President Kgalema Motlanthe and to stop projecting him as being so presidential, to the disadvantage of the party's president, Jacob Zuma.

In a startling move that points to deep-seated divisions in the camp, the ANC has allegedly asked the country's biggest media organisation not to project Motlanthe as being more of a statesman than Zuma.

Two news executives and a few reporters told City Press that the ruling party was concerned about increasing calls for Motlanthe to be allowed to continue as the country's president, even after the elections next year.
"We were asked in October to reduce our coverage of Motlanthe and focus on putting out a better image of Zuma. We have tried to resist this, but there is only so much we can do," said one SABC source.

ANC getting raw deal

ANC secretary-general Gwede Mantashe emphatically denied this on Saturday, saying the ANC was not in a position to tell the SABC which leaders to cover, because the party was getting a raw deal from the public broadcaster anyway.

"They do not cover us objectively, so we don't have the luxury of saying 'increase this or reduce that'," said Mantashe, adding that the ANC did not see any contest between Motlanthe and Zuma.

Motlanthe has courted controversy for a while, contradicting several ANC leaders - including national treasurer Mathews Phosa and South African Communist Party boss Blade Nzimande - publicly in what some say is an attempt to project himself as the sole voice of reason in a camp of hotheads.
Motlanthe has previously said that some attacks on the Constitutional Court from within the party were "out of ignorance".

The ANC Youth League said he was acting like a "paragon of correctness". The league also warned him not to act as if Zuma was no longer there.

Mantashe said the ANC had only asked the SABC to be objective. "All these issues you are raising are being raised everywhere, but not in the ANC. We do not think Motlanthe is over-covered. "He is squeezed in like all of us," said Mantashe.

Zuma cautioned over Motlanthe

Analyst Professor Sue Booysen of Wits University said she was "not surprised at all" about the alleged intra-Zuma camp battles.
Booysen said she knew that when the ANC decided who should replace former president Thabo Mbeki, those closest to Zuma had cautioned against Motlanthe, saying he was too good and too strong a candidate and could be difficult to dislodge from office.

They preferred former National Assembly speaker and current Deputy President Baleka Mbete because she was thought to be "weak" and easy to remove.
Booysen said the Zuma/Motlanthe face-off made sense because it was becoming increasingly clear that for the ANC to disarm the Congress of the People (Cope) it needed someone who was the embodiment of the values Cope espoused.
"There can be no doubt that Motlanthe would do much better than Zuma. He stood up to the Youth League, he spoke in defence of the judiciary."He is good," she said.

Zuma 'represented postively'

City Press asked the head of the Media Monitoring Project, William Bird, to analyse SABC TV's English news bulletins from last Saturday to Thursday to evaluate how Zuma and Motlanthe were featured. In that period Bird found that Zuma could be "seen and heard speaking" for 239 seconds as opposed to Motlanthe's 61 seconds.
Bird said Motlanthe was featured only in items the SABC could not afford to ignore, such as the SADC summit that he hosted in Sandton, and other continental and global issues.

Zuma, on the other hand, was "represented positively" on the campaign trail.
Where he talked about the new party, Zuma came across as being "too defensive", talking about pursuing snakes, said Bird. But overall, "Zuma is mostly shown speaking positively on a variety of issues, except where there is Julius Malema, because almost everything Malema says is negative.
"But Zuma gets a lot of chance to speak while Motlanthe speaks only briefly," Bird said.

SABC spokesperson Kaizer Kganyago said that he "spoke to all the people who matter" and could not find anyone who knew of an ANC instruction to cover Motlanthe less.
An SABC source said the request to cover the head of state less came before Mbeki was "recalled".

^^ :lol: The ANC are so hilarious!!! Now they turn on their own camp, if their own camp is doing a good job at the expense of Zuma's "Jesus-like" image. The ANC is making themselves look pathetic... they're even now loosing SACP members to COPE... Communists fleeing to a centrist party!? The ANC must really be f^%king up more than we even know, if leftist insiders are leaving.

Courtesy EduardSA... thought these should also be here.

The DA relaunched their party last night in Gauteng, they have a new logo (still with their rising sun) and a new website for the 2009 election campaign...

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l103/eduardm2/daII.jpg

Does anyone know where we can get COPE's new logo?

Politiek vat vlam
Johannesburg

Suid-Afrika se politiek het die naweek behoorlik vlam gevat.

Die Demokratiese Alliansie (DA) het gister ’n nuwe logo en leuse op ’n glansryke geleentheid op die terrein van die konstitusionele hof in Johannesburg bekend gestel. Die party wil hom nou herposisioneer as “ ’n party van regering” en nie ’n party wat net opposisie bied nie, sê me. Helen Zille, DA-leier.

En in Pretoria het die wegbreekgroep van mnre. Mosiuoa Lekota en Mbhazima Shilowa die eerste keer húl partywapen gewys. Die party, wat in die volksmond Shikota genoem word, heet nou amptelik Congress of the People (Cope). Die nuwe party word eers amptelik op 16 Desember in Bloemfontein gestig, maar maak reeds aanspraak op groot steun in alle dele van die land.

Ook in Pretoria het die Vryheidsfront Plus op ’n spesiale vergadering van sy federale raad besluit om saam met ander opposisiepartye te werk om die ANC se tweederde-meerderheid van kleiner te maak.

Die naweek se bedrywighede van die opposisiepartye dui op ’n ongekende vloeibaarheid in die Suid-Afrikaanse se politiek. Dit val ook saam met tekens van oral dat die ANC se steun skerp kan daal in aanstaande jaar se verkiesing.

Navorsing deur prof. Lawrie Schlemmer van Markdata dui daarop dat die ANC tot 20% van sy steun in aanstaande jaar se algemene verkiesing aan ’n opposisieparty kan afstaan, het die Mail & Guardian Vrydag berig. Die navorsing is vóór die stigting van Cope gedoen.

Volgens Markdata se studie het die DA se steun byna verdubbel.

Die oud-redakteur en politieke kenner Allister Sparks het gister aan Rapport gesê hy raam die ANC se kiesersteun kan in 2009 daal van 70% tans tot sowat 56%. Die ANC kan maar vergeet van sy meerderheid van twee derdes. Die party kan selfs twee provinsies verloor, sê Sparks.

Anders as op vorige DA-saamtrekke is daar by gister se glansgeleentheid vrolik getoi-toi en struggle-liedjies gesing – met Zille vooraan. Luide viva’s! het gereeld uit die gehoor opgeklink.

’n Video is gewys waarin bekende Suid-Afrikaners soos Francois Pienaar, Jonty Rhodes, Evita Bezuidenhout, Chester Williams en eme- ritus-aartsbiskop Desmond Tutu praat oor hul drome vir Suid-Afrika.

Zille het in haar kort toespraak nie een keer die ANC of mnr. Jacob Zuma, ANC-president, se name genoem nie.

In Pretoria het Lekota by die bekendstelling van Cope se logo gesê die ANC hits met haatspraak geweld aan teen kiesers wat die party nie ondersteun nie.

’n Vergadering van Cope in Verulam in KwaZulu-Natal is die afgelope week gewelddadig ontwrig. Lekota sou die spreker wees, maar hy is weggehou van die vergadering omdat gevrees is vir sy veiligheid.

Shilowa het by die geleentheid gesê Cope het reeds meer as 64 000 lede in die Vrystaat en 60 000 in die Noord-Kaap. In Noordwes sluit selfs “wit Afrikaner-boere” by Cope aan, aldus mnr. Muleleki George, een van die leiersfigure.

Zille het gister gesê sy glo nie Cope sal stemme by die DA afrokkel nie. Cope se kiesers is voormalige ANC-kiesers wat nie meer vir die party wil stem nie. Die DA trek kiesers uit ander oorde. Sparks sê hy glo Cope sal tog potensiële DA-kiesers lok. ’n Koalisie tussen Cope en die DA sal ’n ernstige bedreiging vir die ANC inhou, het Sparks gesê.

Zille sê die “nuwe” DA se waardes van individuele regte en gelykheid is onveranderd. Die party se tradisionele kiesers sal altyd belangrik wees vir hom.
“Wat wel verander, is dat die land se diversiteit beter in die party uitgebeeld en gekoester sal word,” het sy gesê.

DA & COPE
http://www.news24.com/Images/Photos/20081115212917politiek_lg.jpg

The ANC has allegedly ordered the SABC to reduce its coverage of President Kgalema Motlanthe and to stop projecting him as being so presidential, to the disadvantage of the party's president, Jacob Zuma.
I'm not one to stick my nose into foreign politics I haven't fully grasped, but this is downright ridiculous.

^^ Don't worry... your insight into this "insane notion" is shared by most educated South Africans.

I'm not one to stick my nose into foreign politics I haven't fully grasped, but this is downright ridiculous.

Oh wow you have no idea how badly I want the ANC to lose. That would be such an ANC thing to do. Power hungry. They are like a dictatorship party held in the constraints of fair democracy.

South Africa Politics is amazing. Realy amazing. It just got very intersting now.

Honestly i thing it's just got amazing as the American one.

Amazing... well... maybe from a media-circus point-of-view! :lol: Yes, 2009 will indeed be a very interesting year.

^^ u definately cant say politics is boring in our country

^^ u definately cant say politics is boring in our country

It's always on international stage. Should be africa model.

^^ We still have a way to go before we can be a model for African democracy. IMO that title may have to go to Botswana till at least 2009.

Does anyone know where we can get COPE's new logo?

apparently its very simple, its a circle with a X in the center........

......... x marks the stop ;)

This had me hosing... :rofl:

New DA party logo features lots of white, no black
http://www.hayibo.com/articles/view/911

JOHANNESBURG. The newly relaunched Democratic Alliance, desperate to shake off its image as a party for whites, says its new logo is a reflection of how much it has transformed. The logo was revealed on the weekend and features a snow-white sun streaming rays of white light down on a stylized South African landscape that contains no black whatsoever.

The logo's designer, Gladys Riefenstahl, 84, of Squirrel Nutkin Lodge in Brakpan's Casa Blanca Golf and Security Estate, said the dominant white sun and complete absence of black were not indicative of any kind of unconscious racism in herself or the party.

"Some of my best friends use black in their designs," she told media this morning.

"It's a lovely vibrant colour, with great rhythm."

However, she said, black "tended to overwhelm whatever it was introduced to".

The new logo replaces the party's previous motif, which featured a golden sun rising over a blue ocean symbolizing the aspiration of many DA voters to seek a new dawn overseas.

The party confirmed that it will still be known as the Democratic Alliance, but refused to reveal what it was allied with, denying that it had any power-sharing arrangement with either the defunct National Party or its other primary power base, the Arthur Murray School of Dance.

Meanwhile the DA has praised local organizers at its conference for averting a repeat of the unpleasant scenes that have dogged meetings of the newly formed Congress of the People, where ANC members have been accused of breaking up gatherings and intimidating speakers.

According to security consultant Darrel Sundance-Kidd only a handful of ANC protesters arrived, the rest having been diverted by a rumour of a 25%-off sale at Markham.

However, he said, those who did arrive outside the conference centre were "efficiently guided to an alternate venue" by trailing life-size cardboard cutouts of Mosiuoa Lekota and Mbhazima Shilowa on string behind a car.

He said that most of the protesters had given up after several dozen kilometers, by which time they had run out of plastic chairs to throw at the cutouts.

:lol: got to love hayibo.com

"Some of my best friends use black in their designs,"....
Ja ne, that old cliche :)

she said, black "tended to overwhelm whatever it was introduced to".


ANC? :lol:

:hilarious

Cope like Jesus's donkey - Zuma

19/11/2008 23:02 - (SA)

Carien du Plessis, Beeld

Polokwane - Those who have broken away from the ANC are like the donkey on which, according to the Bible, Jesus rode into Jerusalem.

Jacob Zuma, leader of the ANC, used this metaphor on Thursday when he addressed hundreds of Cosatu workers in a packed hall in Polokwane as part of his early election campaign in Limpopo.

He said there was a story in the Bible about a "lucky donkey" on whose back Jesus rode into Jerusalem.

"The people were waiting for the Son of Man who was on the donkey. The donkey did not understand it, and thought the songs of praise were for him," he said.

According to Zuma, the donkey later tried to return to Jerusalem on its own in order to once again experience that moment of glory, but the people chased it away.

In the same way the Congress of the People (Cope) leaders will find they are nothing without the ANC, Zuma said.

Snakeskin

He said the ANC should not only fight for a two-thirds majority, but for a "three-thirds majority".

This will enable the ANC to implement its policies more easily, Zuma said.

Zuma also compared Cope's leaders to snakeskin that remained behind after the winter, while the snake - the ANC - sailed away in its new skin.

The old skin may look like the snake, but it isn't the snake, Zuma said.

However, he added that the ANC should allow the dissidents back in should they change their minds and come knocking at the ANC's door again.

Cope claimed it wanted to protect the Constitution when, in fact, they wanted to amend it in order to change the electoral system, Zuma added.

US electoral system

He said Cope were asking for a direct presidential election, as in the US.

Zuma said Cope leaders were airing their problems in the media. They wanted to involve the whole of South Africa in the process and let the people make decisions about the president.

"The American system is different, because it is based on individualism. One man tells the people he is the best leader and we don't know if we can believe him or not."

Zuma said the Americans gave President George W Bush a mandate to govern them, "and you know what happened in the Middle East".

"Our democracy is based on collectivism. We know this person, what this person can do. It's not about an individual who says he thinks he knows himself and can do everything for you."

- Beeld

WTF seriously!

So his saying the ANC's are snakes :sly:

Ones got to wonder WHY the ANC are doing everything in their power to bring down COPE, if its not insulting them publicly like 'ol shower head did in that article, its the others that claim the new parties name and logo conflicts with that of the ANC in the 1970's :blahblah:

I mean get real now, I think the ANC are scurd :lol:

So his saying the ANC's are snakes :sly:

Definitely the stupidest analogy he could think of.

Im a christian and calling yourself and your party jesus is just absurd. i hope he knows that its like dancing in a thunderstorm and yelling '' God i dare you to kill me ! '' . the end of the ANC is close than we think and that end might be a spectacular bringing back to earth ! zumas ego has gotten so big he now resembles a orbital deathstar!

^^ :lol: :lol: :lol: Nice analogy Johan. Even to compare his organisation or himself to anything Holy is disgusting! God WILL judge him. I'm not perfect, no human is, but I hope the wrath of God comes upon him in 2009, and of course the wrath of the South African voters.

Zuma has become a clown, an uneducated despot, a scared political half-whit, a black-mark on the glory of the ANC of yesterday, a truly disgusting human being. :ohno:

Helen Zille of the DA is said to be meeting with the IEC to allow South Africans living abroad the right to vote. She stated that it is ridiculous that prisoners can vote, yet if you're a citizen, but not residing in the country, you cannot! Almost all constitutional democracies around the world have "absentee ballot systems" for their citizens living in other countries, but your right to vote when you're convicted of a crime is withheld.

I fully agree; eg. If damn murderers, rapists, thieves and hijackers can vote, why the hell not a 20-something SA Citizen working in London for a couple years??!!:ohno:

Helen Zille of the DA is said to be meeting with the IEC to allow South Africans living abroad the right to vote.

Oh thank goodness :D I'll be on my gap year next year and I really hope I can cast my first vote despite being overseas.

COPE remarks upset ANC

November 22 2008 at 04:15PM

The ANC on Saturday said it was dismayed and deeply concerned about "inflammatory and defamatory" remarks made by Congress of the People (COPE).

COPE youth leader Anele Mda at a Mthatha meeting on Friday called African National Congress (ANC) President Jacob Zuma "a rapist" and said that if the ANC was re-elected into government under "President Zuma", "rape would no longer be a criminal offence".

In the same meeting, another COPE leader Willie Madisha reportedly called Zuma "SA's Stalin."

He said when "President Zuma" visited the United Nations, people would say "here comes the rapist".

ANC spokesperson Carl Niehaus said on Saturday: "This is nothing else, but hate speech of the worst kind. It is also totally devoid of any respect for the law, and it's most basic principle that every person has the right to a fair trial,"

Niehaus labelled the rape statements as outrageous because Zuma was found not guilty of rape.

Zuma was acquitted on a charge of raping a 31-year-old HIV positive woman by the Johannesburg High Court in May 2006.

Niehaus said the remarks further intensified the persecution of Zuma through abuse of the law for political expediency.

"This is totally unacceptable and very serious for the independence of the judiciary.

"We appeal to those who wax lyrical about respect for the Constitution and the rule of law to practice what they preach and to cease making statements that undermine these important principles."

COPE was established by former defence minister and ANC chairman Terror Lekota, his former deputy Mluleki George and former Gauteng premier Mbhazima Shilowa. This was after they accused the ruling new leadership of deviating from the Freedom Charter. - Sapa

My ten cents worth... yes, I agree you cannot call Zuma a rapist, as eventhough many S.Africans are very suspicious of him, he was acquitted. He's SA's Stalin, well that's just her opinion and must be respected, and in my opinion, Zuma is becoming a dangerous, dictator-like cult-personality leader, so she may have a point.

BUT, what I find hilarious, is the ANC has the balls to lambaste COPE over such comments, when the ANC has wanted "to kill for Zuma", wanted to "destroy the counter-revolutionaries" and called COPE members a (in African culture) violence-instigating comment, of "headless snakes, dogs." Yet. they cry foul now... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! :lol:

Hypocrits! At least the COPE members didn't want to kill or destroy anyone.

lol, looks like COPE got their own Julius Malema's :lol:

Now, what do you guys think about the recent revelation that 70 % of managers in the Department of Home Affairs FAILED their competency test...??? I find it absolutely astonishing that the ANC and the government expect the public to be subjected to this kind of shit with not even so much as an apology and a major sacking of those idiots.... They have decided that the incompetent managers will be re-deployed in other departments, or sections within the same Department.... Why spread the cancer? These fat cats should all just be sacked.

The ANC is going throu a REFINERY MACHINE.

The great thing about democracy is that the so called leaders pass under microscope , and then the election campagn is the refinery machine to expose them, and the product is when they are in charge.

Democracy is a good thing.

South African living overseas to vote? why not?

great idea. they must vote.

Now, what do you guys think about the recent revelation that 70 % of managers in the Department of Home Affairs FAILED their competency test...??? I find it absolutely astonishing that the ANC and the government expect the public to be subjected to this kind of shit with not even so much as an apology and a major sacking of those idiots.... They have decided that the incompetent managers will be re-deployed in other departments, or sections within the same Department.... Why spread the cancer? These fat cats should all just be sacked.

Well did you stop and take noticed who's incharge of this department before your outburst here?

http://onctoday.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/manto-jack.jpg

With her incharge of anything, I wouldnt expect much.

I read the article in Sundays paper & its shocking, the ques one has to go through at Home Affairs are ridculous, and after waiting 8 hours when you finally make it to a counter, they are so rude & arrogent towards you, it makes you wanna break the glass and rip their head off, only to find out 6 months down the line they messed up your passport application!!!! :bash:

LOL, was listening to 5fm the other day, they were playing the song from the Ting Tings - thats not my name, the presenter suggested it to be the home affairs theme song, cause every time they give you your ID it has a different name in it. :hilarious

Yup, but she was only put in charge of Home Affairs recently, when Mbeki left Government. The department has been shit since the new government kicked in in 1994. Sorry to say, but competency went out the window the day the ANC took over this department.

The department has been shit since the new government kicked in in 1994. Sorry to say, but competency went out the window the day the ANC took over this department.

so you prefered the apartheid government????

do you think it wa 100% competent????

^^ whats apartheid got to do with this?

so you prefered the apartheid government????


No sane person would believe that's what he was trying to say! That's a very "Malemistic" statement to make. To say a government department is in shambles doesn't automatically make one want to revert back to the "bad old days!" :ohno:

So if someone in KwaMashu is horrified by crime and crying out for the death penalty, does that mean he wants the group areas act back with the death penalty. This was one "brain fart" of note.

please read my post carefully:

i quoted this comment
'The department has been shit since the new government kicked in in 1994. Sorry to say, but competency went out the window the day the ANC took over this department.
'

and i wanted his opinion...

ofcourse he has the right to lament on how kak government departments are
but read carefully what he wrote..

and what was pre 1994??.. which regime.. other than the apartheid government.
that's why i asked....

the ANC didnt just take on one department...it became the government...

'The department has been shit since the new government kicked in in 1994. Sorry to say, but competency went out the window the day the ANC took over this department.

i repeat my question to caisson boy..

i am all for service delivery and accountability...

and they ( ANC ) have clearly not delivered particularly in this department...
i get that...

but chopping down everything post 1994 simply means you prefere what you had before
and i wanted to find out.....

He can answer... but as I said, seriously doubt his intentions were to want "Apartheid government" in charge of departments again, but I agree with him, post 1994, Home Affairs has been one of the departments to seriously suffer maladministration.

SARS and Finance portfolios have been splendid under Trevor, but many departments have suffered many incompetencies under the current government. But, most people just want positive change... not to go directly back to what was. No self-respecting human being would want that!

Siting 1994 was him saying the ANC cocked up Home Affairs, nothing to do with Vervoed, Malan or Botha...

point taken.

might have been an emotional 'brain fart'
its just that i really get emotional when its just negative comments 'post 1994'
and by no means do i not accept critism, i guess i read his statement wrong.

i am sure his commens where solely based on home affairs..

this is why i feel SA politics needs to shift away from ppl hiding under their political umbrellas inorder for them to be individually accountable for the service delivery owing to the public..

fyi

Annual reports released over the last five years have revealed that the following departments have received three qualified audit opinions, or worse:

•Parliament of the Republic of South Africa (3 qualified opinions)
•Department of Home Affairs (4 qualified opinions and 1 disclaimer)
•Department of Health (4 qualified opinions and 1 emphasis of matter)
•Department of Correctional Services (5 qualified opinions in a row)
•Department of Defence (4 qualified opinions and 1 emphasis of matter)
•Department of Water Affairs and Forestry (2 adverse opinion, 2 qualified opinions and 1 emphasis of matter)
not good:ohno:

Yup, but she was only put in charge of Home Affairs recently, when Mbeki left Government. The department has been shit since the new government kicked in in 1994. Sorry to say, but competency went out the window the day the ANC took over this department.

lol, I was commenting on the fact they not retrenching the incompetant morons, rather shuffling them around, but yes you are right, I havent been to the home affairs prior to 94 so I cannot comment.

Gosh, what a lot of talk has been going on since I made that comment about the ANC and Home Affairs.:banana:

Well, I'm not even going to defend myself against anyone emotionally charged to the point where they would suggest that I would want the Apartheid Government back. I don't. Nuff said.

BUT: I will not deny the FACT that those Nationalist government officials could at least read and write, speak intelligible English and respond to enquiries timeously. They may have been in the service of a terrible government, but at least they were pretty damn good at their job, which is administration and customer service. And that is the sort of person that you need in Home Affairs. And I'm sure the ANC had access to people like that, but somehow they employed a lot of incompetent people instead. And now that these people don't perform, they don't even get sacked. How does this make sense?

No, I'm not saying that Home Affairs were 100 % competent pre-1994... but they definitely were not 70% incompetent.

"South Africa is a country based on the rules and principles of God" Jacob
Zuma

yeah what-ever JZ

^^ that guy is a joke, one sad thing that will happen to this country is JZ being the president. I have no problem with him as a person but I don't think he is a strong person for the postion. We need someone who stands for what he says, someone who can say no.

JZ is a puppet that can be pulled by many strings, Mbeki was similar but could stand up for himself when needed, but cant say the say for Bra Jacob

At last someone is speaking out against the blasphemic insults from the ANC camp, comparing that Idiot with Christ. Jacob Zuma is pathetic, to put it mildly.

===============================================================

De Lille: Jacob is no Jesus
01/12/2008

Cape Town - Independent Democrats leader Patricia de Lille called on the ANC on Monday to stop using Biblical references in its election campaign after a regional party leader likened Jacob Zuma to Jesus.
"The ANC must be condemned in the strongest possible terms for its selective use of Christianity to further its political goals," De Lille said.

She accused the ANC of trying to portray itself and its leader as "god-like" and urged it to "stop using Jesus Christ, the Bible and Christianity in general to garner votes from the poor and the vulnerable".

The fierce critic of the multi-billion rand arms deal said it was blasphemous to compare a politician facing corruption allegations with Jesus.
"We in the Independent Democrats would like to draw the ANC's attention to the fact that Jesus was never charged with corruption.
"Adultery, the machine gun song and Zuma's failure to condemn war talk and hate speech by the ANC rank and file are examples of why it is insulting to compare Zuma with Christ," she said.

The ID's call comes after the ruling party's Free State leader, Ace Magashule, said the ANC president was suffering just like Jesus Christ did, in an interview published on Monday.
"Jesus was persecuted. He was called names and betrayed. It's the same kind of suffering Mr Zuma has had to bear recently, but he's still standing strong. He's not giving up," Magashule said.

De Lille said it was one of several examples of religious rhetoric used by the ANC in the run-up to the national election.

Patricia de Lille for President of South Africa

^^ Jacob Zuma for president of Sulfur-Burning-Hellish-Cesspool-of-Fire!!!

^^

He will be next year.....

eish guy....

lets hope Kgalema manthlate stays....

positive thoughts-positive thoughts -positive thoughts - positive thoughts......

I will only vote ANC if Kgalema stays not JZ. I don't have anything personal against him but politically I don't think he is fit to be our leader.

Wheres Tony when u need him?

^^ i was watching the interview on tv with Tony Leon when Mbeki made his resignation speech live, damn what a smart guy, his analysis was so good. he was just at the wrong side, if only he was around this time.

ooh my God! the day Zuma is inaugurated in Pretoria with the Union buildings as the back drop. i would be too embarrassed to sing the national anthem at his inauguration. what an insult to our nation's anthem and protocols. :cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:

^^ What's sad is it's an insult to Mandela's-ANC, to Tambo's-ANC... Zuma's-ANC is not a liberation movement, it's not a party for the nation by the nation, it's not a party that stands for intellect, peace and prosperity for all. The Zuma-ANC stands for "saying what the crowd wants to hear," stands for "militantly discounting and ousting anyone that criticises us," stands for "political self-enrichment," stands for "political polarisation and reverse-racist undertones," stands for "constitutional and judicial respect when it suits us."

Anyone that was an ANC supporter and still thinks the ANC is the ANC that worked with De Klerk to bring us out of Apartheid hell is blind, uninformed and loyal-to-the-detriment-of-South Africa.

Just as I said earlier, complete contempt for all other political institutions, for transparency and for the constitution. If you have nothing to hide, stand in the limelight and state publicly where you stand and defend yourself. The ANC are awful!!! Anyone that asks them for a debate is denied. Then you state to people "what debate we should have," Duarte... f^%k you, who are you to dictate what debates South Africans should hear and not hear? It's like going to trail, but not testifying in your defense, it's like that all-too-common, ask a question and all you get back is "no comment." If you have nothing to hide ANC, face the South African public, or shut up and let yourselves loose 2009!

From www.iol.co.za
ANC pulls out of constitutional debate

December 03 2008 at 01:29PM

The ANC has pulled out of a public debate on the protection and defence of the constitution as it did not see the value of discussing subjects which did not pose "key institutional, policy and political challenges".

The debate, hosted by the Helen Suzman Foundation, was attended by representatives of COPE, the DA, ID, UDM and academics.

Notifying the foundation of the ANC's decision not to participate, spokesperson Jessie Duarte wrote that if one looked "beyond the rhetoric, objectively" there was no threat to the country's constitutional order or to the rule of law.

"Certainly, we should all stand ready to protect and defend our constitution.

"But to suggest, as this debate would, that the constitution is somehow imperilled is to misdirect our attention and our energies," Duarte wrote in a letter to the foundation on Tuesday.

"The more relevant question as regards the constitution is whether we have made sufficient progress towards realising the socio-economic rights contained in chapter two of the constitution.

"What progress have we made since 1996 in realising the right of all South Africans to housing, health care, food, water, social security and education?

"That, we would submit, is the debate we should be having."

The debate takes place at the Rosebank Hotel between 12.30pm and 2pm on Wednesday. - Sapa

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Zille throws down debate gauntlet again

*** My Ten Cents: If after Zuma's comments to Business Day, he turns down Zille's offer (in reaction to JZ's own words) this time, he's the greatest coward, yellow-belly and fraud, PROVEN, and must never be allowed to obtain any political power whatsoever! The Article...

December 03 2008 at 07:06PM

Democratic Alliance leader Helen Zille has once again challenged ruling party president Jacob Zuma to a public debate.

The ANC leader called himself a "firm democrat", yet time and time again he had declined to join her and other politicians on a public platform to debate issues of national importance, she said in a statement on Wednesday.

"Zuma has ducked the opportunity to debate me on at least five occasions in 2008," she said.

Zille was responding to a remark made by Zuma during an interview with Business Day after his party's manifesto conference at the weekend.

He reportedly told the newspaper: "I am a firm democrat. There can be no issue that cannot and should not be debated."

Zille said Zuma needed to be true to his word and debate her in public.

"A real test of robust democratic discourse is... whether the ruling party is able and willing publicly to debate the opposition, so that voters can hear opposing views, weigh up the respective merits of those views, and draw their own conclusions," she said. - Sapa

Cope a rallying point for all, says Grindrod

Cape Argus

2008-12-03 17:15:01

By Simon Grindrod

The anticipated launch of Congress of the People, a strong and inclusive alternative to the ANC, on December 16 represents a second chance at achieving dynamic and participative democracy in our country.

White voters, specifically, face an unprecedented opportunity to reach out and contribute to building the future of South Africa.

The train is waiting at the station filled with legions of reinvigorated citizens eager to seize a moment that may never come again.

It is no coincidence that over a million new voters registered during the IEC registration weekend which happened shortly after Mosiuoa Lekota, Mbhazima Shilowa and Mluleki George convened the national convention in Sandton.

It will be a sad day for South Africa if minorities turn their backs on this opportunity and continue to cling on fearfully to the DA in the vain hope that remaining barricaded in their fortresses will somehow advance their interests.

Minorities now have the chance to be in the vanguard of developing a true alternative - a government for the people, by the people, regardless of race or background.

I raise the analogy of an isolated and stubborn UK resolutely refusing to join the European economic union (then the Common Market) in the 1970s. The advantages of influencing decision making from within were clear, but fear and arrogance prevented them from participating.

The delayed entry left them permanently struggling to keep up with members who earlier staked their claim and moulded the organisation.

So it is with the decision now faced by minorities as we prepare for the national election next year.

White voters in particular have a chance to directly influence the changed landscape which will surely follow. Failure to do so will leave them on the margin, represented by a minority party of white interest.

Regardless of any Obama-style rebranding, the DA can never attract the mass of black support so critical to be a serious challenger.

Cope is becoming a rallying point across racial divides precisely because it comprises such diverse membership and leadership.

Cope will present a policy direction to reform the electoral system including a directly-elected president, premiers and mayors.

Common sense reforms of the criminal justice system, de-politicisation of state institutions, alternative foreign policy proposals, overhauling home affairs and revised agricultural policies are finding resonance in every community.

The DA may talk it, only Cope has the size to walk it.

A pre-Cope opinion poll was selectively used by the DA to suggest increasing support.

What they did not reveal is that black membership of that party is less than 3%. A respected figure like Joe Seremane received only 6% of votes to lead his own party. In the Western Cape, where coloured people represent over 50% of the population, the DA has yet to elect a person from that population sector into a senior leadership position.

This is about much more than shrieking about the dangers of a Zuma presidency or Malema sitting in cabinet. Any party can do that.

Some parties are inherently opposition parties, entirely unable to formulate solutions to the problems we suffer daily.

We need an alternative vision that truly represents the hopes and aspirations of all South Africans. It is about acknowledging that our fundamental needs are the same, and accentuating the things that unite us.

It is disgraceful of the leader of the opposition to badmouth our country overseas, saying things in London she would never say here.

We, as minorities, must ditch our fears and jump in. It takes courage and vision, but there is no other way to secure values we hold dear.

Sitting in our racial bunkers, occasionally popping up to snipe at government, is not a relevant strategy.

Cope provides the critical mass for everyone who believes South Africa must have a brighter future. I implore my fellow South Africans to open up to this incredible development and seize it with both hands. We may never get another chance.

The choice for all of us is clear. Shall we continue in our old ways, desperately holding onto what we know and perpetuating our limited support for political interest groups?

We will then forever remain, in our dwindling numbers, mere spectators to the evolution of our own country and democracy.

Or shall we have the courage to jump onto the train, packed with positive and enthusiastic South Africans, bound for the future? Cynics say the South African dream of togetherness and progress is lost. I say dreams come true when enough votes are cast to make them real.

Grindrod is a Cope volunteer

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Zille throws down debate gauntlet again

*** My Ten Cents: If after Zuma's comments to Business Day, he turns down Zille's offer (in reaction to JZ's own words) this time, he's the greatest coward, yellow-belly and fraud, PROVEN, and must never be allowed to obtain any political power whatsoever! The Article...

December 03 2008 at 07:06PM

Democratic Alliance leader Helen Zille has once again challenged ruling party president Jacob Zuma to a public debate.

The ANC leader called himself a "firm democrat", yet time and time again he had declined to join her and other politicians on a public platform to debate issues of national importance, she said in a statement on Wednesday.

"Zuma has ducked the opportunity to debate me on at least five occasions in 2008," she said.

Zille was responding to a remark made by Zuma during an interview with Business Day after his party's manifesto conference at the weekend.

He reportedly told the newspaper: "I am a firm democrat. There can be no issue that cannot and should not be debated."

Zille said Zuma needed to be true to his word and debate her in public.

"A real test of robust democratic discourse is... whether the ruling party is able and willing publicly to debate the opposition, so that voters can hear opposing views, weigh up the respective merits of those views, and draw their own conclusions," she said. - Sapa

kwak kwak!!! Zuma is chicken

T, you insuloting chickens my brother, pease don't ever say that in your life. Nothing in this world that you can compare Zuma to. He is worst than anything you can think of.

COPE wins court battle over name! ANC looses bid to stop Cape by-elections! ANC fails dismally in Cape, even in contested wards.
Is this a sign of things to come... are the crooks and power-hungry opportunists who think they're divinely entitled to rule post-Apartheid until Jesus comes finally being unseated?

COPE wins court battle over name! ANC looses bid to stop Cape by-elections! ANC fails dismally in Cape, even in contested wards.
Is this a sign of things to come... are the crooks and power-hungry opportunists who think they're divinely entitled to rule post-Apartheid until Jesus comes finally being unseated?

Only in the Western Cape. They will retain their majority nationally in 2009.

^^ the challenge is on and with more ANC seniors expected to deviate to COPE, anything is possible. Even if the crooks wins elections, they will be kept on their toes. Manuel and Tito are also rumoured to be looking at going COPE's way. ANC is fucking up the country and keep on blaming the apartheid legacy even though we are 14 yrs into democracy.

Only in the Western Cape. They will retain their majority nationally in 2009.
I don't know! The more time moves on the more the ANC suffers major blunders and setbacks. I think the ANC is very "secretly" frightened at the moment and have every right to be. I think there is a very strong possibility the Northern Cape and even Gauteng could be in other parties' hands post 2009.

We can only hope.

Is there any other rebuttal in the ANC other than, "you are couter-revolutionary," "you are apartheid puppets." They are sounding like an unintelligent broken record every time something doesn't go the Zuma-faction's way! No wonder they won't take part in any debates, they have nothing but liberation-political-babble to offer and no real substance. This once again shows the ANC of today cannot look to the future and only looks to the past; people who cannot progress and look towards tomorrow have no place leading South Africa into the future... leave South Africa in peace ANC, please... :ohno:

Mantashe lashes out at black judges

December 14 2008 at 09:02AM
By Political Staff

The two black judges who ruled that COPE could keep the name Congress of the People are "apartheid apologists", says ANC secretary-general Gwede Mantashe.

He said the ANC was paying the price for being "too apologetic... about who we are".

Three Pretoria High Court judges - Judge President of the Transvaal Provincial Division Bernard Ngoepe and Judges Jerry Shongwe and Ben du Plessis - on Friday dismissed the ANC's application to challenge the breakaway party's use of the name.

However, on Saturday Mantashe said he could forgive Du Plessis - a white judge - for not knowing the "historical facts", but described the two other judges - who are black - as "apartheid apologists". He did not refer to their race though.

Mantashe was speaking at the conference of the Young Communist League in Johannesburg.

In its court application the ANC contended that Cope, by using the name Congress of the People, was trying to associate itself with the historical 1955 Congress of the People in Kliptown.

But Judge Du Plessis ruled: "No reasonable voter, even those with but a passing knowledge of the relevant history, will think that COPE, a party established in 2008, is the event that took place in 1955."

Mantashe repeated his comments about the judges to Weekend Argus, saying the judgment was "historically and factually incorrect", and he could not understand why the two black judges did not "know historical facts".

"I am not criticising or attacking the judges, but I am criticising their judgment, which reflects their historical background. Everybody who understands the painful history of this country knows the facts (about the origin of the Congress of the People). Why can't they? Yes, I said they are apartheid apologists. I did not expect Ngoepe and Shongwe to take such a line.

"We are being apologetic about who we are... As a liberation movement, we have even hesitated to build Heroes' Acres, a monument to document our history."

It is not the first time Mantashe has attacked the judiciary for taking what he described as a political line against the ANC.

He was once quoted as saying judges were counter-revolutionaries for their stance against ANC President Jacob Zuma's legal wrangles. After fierce criticism he later denied the remarks.

In January, Mantashe attacked Deputy Chief Justice Dikgang Moseneke, questioning his political history, for making public remarks about his role in creating an equal society despite what the ANC delegates to Polokwane wanted.

This article was originally published on page 1 of Cape Argus on December 14, 2008

When all possible exits are blocked, the ANC defends itself by attacking everything and everyone. This is of course, typical behaviour.

anyone see this article?

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very very interesting

There's rumours that cope wants to appoint Dr Mamphela Ramphele as its president

PROMINENT businesswoman Dr Mamphela Ramphele is being lobbied by leaders of the Congress of the People to take up a leadership position in Cope.
Three Cope leaders have told The Times of the party’s attempts to recruit Ramphele to be one of the party’s two deputy presidents.
Cope is holding its inaugural conference in Bloemfontein, which is being attended by about 3 000 delegates.
Cope leaders said the party was considering creating two positions for deputy president, one of which would be filled by either Ramphele or an unnamed cabinet minister, and the other by Mbhazima Shilowa, the party’s current deputy chairman.
Yesterday Cope confirmed Mosiuoa Lekota and Shilowa as its president and deputy president respectively. But Cope sources said the party wanted to recruit people previously not involved in politics to take up leadership positions.
However, Ramphele, the former University of Cape Town vice-chancellor, denied having been approached by Cope: “ I’m a very active citizen who wants [to] stay above politics.”
Lekota on Saturday said the party’s inaugural conference would not finalise the leadership of Cope, but would instead select a “consensus” team.

thetimes.co.za

Will Boesak join Cope?
16/12/2008 08:13 - (SA)

Bloemfontein - On Monday evening there was a strong indication that Dr Allan Boesak, former Western Cape leader of the ANC, would join the Congress of the People as one of the new party's vice-presidents.

In a surprise move, the ANC admitted on Monday that it was expecting two of former president Thabo Mbeki's Cabinet ministers and confidantes to defect to Cope.

They are Thoko Didiza, former minister of public works, and Sydney Mufamadi, former minister of provincial and local government.

The ANC chairperson in the Free State, Ace Magashule, said they were not going to try and keep these two and "others like them" in the ANC.

No power struggle

Meanwhile, interim Cope chairperson Mosiuoa Lekota told a news conference in Bloemfontein on Monday that people who were saying there was a leadership struggle between him and interim deputy chairperson Mbhazima Shilowa, were probably trying to create a smokescreen for an assassination of one of the leaders.

"We saw it happen in the old apartheid regime when they wanted to shoot and kill people."

Apparently an SMS spreading the rumour of conflict between the two men was doing the rounds.

"This SMS is still on some ANC members' phones."

Lekota said some ANC leaders were scared that Cope members might have information on the corrupt activities of ANC leaders.

He accused the ANC of using bullying tactics and said he was still wondering what would have happened if he had been in the car when his bodyguard was kidnapped in October.

"We have to ensure the success of this organisation and I will do what I have to to achieve that."

No Mbeki endorsement

In answer to a question on whether Mbeki was endorsing Cope, party spokesperson Phillip Dexter said that was not true and such rumours arose because many people were neurotic about those breaking away from the ANC.

This was because "many people have already broken away and they [the ANC] no longer trust each other".

On Tuesday there were rumours that more high-profile ANC members wanted to join Cope.

Die Burger was told that Boesak, who was on holiday at Dana Bay, was expected to arrive in Bloemfontein on Tuesday morning.

Some ANC leaders in the government were apparently only waiting for the election date to be announced before joining Cope, thus ensuring that they could remain in their positions until the national elections.

Whilst the ANC spews hate speech at rallies in PE... other parties...

SA 'one nation with one future'
16/12/2008 10:52 - (SA)

Johannesburg - South Africans constitute one nation with one future, Democratic Alliance leader Helen Zille said in the party's Reconciliation Day message.

Zille said the DA renewed its commitment to overcoming the divisions of the past and establishing an open, opportunity society for all, rooted in the love for diversity.

"Today (Tuesday) is one of the most significant public holidays in our country, as it symbolises the resolve of our nation to rise above our differences, to celebrate the advances made towards unity in diversity and to build a better future for all our people.

"It is the day we face the past, and resolve to transcend its negative legacy.

"We can turn South Africa into a safe, prosperous, free society in which everyone has the opportunity to reach their dreams irrespective of the circumstances of their birth," said Zille..

Challenges threaten unity

Over the past 14 years, much had been done to achieve a unified nation, but as the country celebrated its achievements, citizens should also remember the challenges they faced - challenges that threatened unity.

"Crime, unemployment, poverty and HIV/Aids tear at the very fabric of our society, and we must all show a renewed commitment to confront these challenges head on, for it is only when they have been addressed that we can truly speak of South Africa as a unified and reconciled nation."

South Africans should place reconciliation, non-racialism and the celebration of diversity at the very centre of their national discourse.

"We must cultivate a broad and inclusive South Africanism that is based on common citizenship rather than on race or ethnicity, and that is rooted in civic patriotism. And we must create the kind of society where people are free from fear, economically productive, educated and healthy."

As the most diverse political party in the history of South Africa, the Democratic Alliance was proud of the role it had played in advancing the goal of a unified non-racial society.

"We are proud of the policies that we have developed to breathe life into the idea of an open, opportunity society," Zille said.

"We must always remember that there is more that binds us together than that which pushes us apart.

"Let us never forget: we are one nation with one future."

- SAPA

:ohno: One of the most powerful men in SA sues a Cartoonist! Not even George W has done that to the American media and their satirists (who have slammed him over the last couple years!). However controversial, freedom of speech is freedom of speech. Just another event that will make the ANC-JZ-Camp look pathetic. :ohno:

Zuma sues Zapiro
December 18 2008 at 09:04AM

ANC president Jacob Zuma is suing Jonathan Shapiro, the Sunday Times and its holding company for R7-million for a controversial cartoon published earlier this year, The Times reported on Thursday.

In the cartoon, Shapiro, who uses the pen name Zapiro, portrayed Zuma unbuckling his belt as he prepares to rape the figurative Lady Justice.

She is held down by Zuma allies Julius Malema, Gwede Mantashe, Blade Nzimande and Zwelinzima Vavi.

Mantashe eggs Zuma on: "Go for it, boss!"

While Zuma's allies claimed the cartoon was intended to project the ANC president as a rapist - even though Zuma was acquitted of rape in 2006 - Shapiro said the central meaning of the cartoon was "incredibly clear".

"It showed Jacob Zuma, with the help of his political allies, threatening and intimidating the judiciary to try and manipulate the courts for him to be exonerated and escape going on trial [for corruption], thus paving the way for Zuma to become president," said Shapiro.

He said he used Lady Justice to represent the South African judicial system, adding that the figure is recognised as a symbol of justice the world over.

In the letter of demand served on Shapiro, Zuma threatens to take the award-winning cartoonist to court if he does not pay him R7-million within 14 days.

"The publication of the aforesaid cartoon has injured our client in his dignity and reputation and as a result thereof he has suffered damages in the amount of R7-million," reads the letter.

It was served on Shapiro on Wednesday, but is dated September 15, a week after the cartoon appeared.

The R7-million claim consists of R5-million for alleged damage to Zuma's reputation and R2-million for alleged damage to his dignity. - Sapa

Haha, stupid idiot. You'd think he'd want the public to forget about the cartoon, but instead suing Zapiro only re-raises awareness. That party clearly consists of a bunch of nutters.

^^ :lol: he's such an idiot, who's his chief advisor he must be ten times as stupid :lol:

what happened to Assassinations :guns1:?

^^ Hahaha!!! CIA has no interest in Zuma. :) However, think JZ just needs to slip away quietly into the night... he's a dumb man, not an evil man. Now Mugabe, he needs to be victim to one of those covert killings!!!

Trouble Ahead in South Africa

Beware a threatened ANC.

By R.W. JOHNSON | From today's Wall Street Journal Europe

CAPE TOWN, South Africa

Amid huge excitement thousands of delegates from all over South Africa greeted the launch of the Congress of the People on Tuesday. Yet this perhaps decisive breakthrough into multiparty politics has thoroughly rattled the African National Congress, which has ruled this country since the advent of democracy in 1994. There are signs that the reaction of the ANC could turn violent if its new leader, Jacob Zuma, does not do more to restrain the hotheads.

The ANC, which has hitherto enjoyed majorities of two-thirds and more, tried to prevent COPE, as the new party is known, from adopting its name. The ruling party said this title was sacred to the ANC since it was after a 1955 national meeting called the Congress of the People that the ANC adopted its manifesto, the Freedom Charter. When the courts found that COPE was free to use that name, Gwede Mantashe, the ANC secretary-general, attacked the judges as "counterrevolutionaries," dismissed one judge's opinion because he was white, and accused the other two (black) judges of being sellouts and apologists for apartheid. The repeated attacks on the judiciary by Mr. Mantashe and other ANC leaders have given rise to grave concern in the chattering classes as to whether an independent judiciary can really survive under continued ANC rule.

But this is only one of several disturbing facets of today's ANC under Mr. Zuma, who evicted Thabo Mbeki from the country's presidency two months ago. Another is the greatly enhanced role of "war vets" -- veterans of the ANC's armed struggle against apartheid. Worryingly, as in Zimbabwe, many of those who dress up in army fatigues and carry out war dances and marches are actually far too young to have served in the armed struggle, which ended 18 years ago. This raises the specter that we may be seeing the creation of a group of party "storm troopers" to be used as bullies and enforcers, on the Mugabe model. Moreover, particularly among the hypermilitant ANC Youth League, there is a great deal of violent language, with promises to "die for Zuma" and even "shoot to kill for Zuma."

Therein lies the crux of the affair, for COPE members cite the repeated attacks on the judiciary by ANC leaders as one of the reasons for their breakaway. They point as well to the fact that Mr. Mantashe is also the chairman of the South African Communist Party. His ascension to power within the ANC thus reveals how the Communists have largely taken over the movement on the back of Jacob Zuma's long campaign against Mr. Mbeki.

COPE clearly appeals to the new black middle class, which has mushroomed in the past 15 years and which feels decreasingly comfortable with the revolutionary rhetoric of the Communists and the allied Congress of South African Trade Unions, almost all of whose leaders are Communist Party members.

Already the ANC has broken up many COPE meetings and torn down its posters. The COPE leader Mosiuoa Lekota, known as the "Terror" from his days as a star soccer forward, complains bitterly that "intimidation and paralyzing fear are now gripping sections of our society." Many people who would like to support COPE, he says, are "forced to speak about it only in whispers" for fear of losing their jobs or worse. Mr. Lekota likens the climate of fear to the apartheid years. The ANC of course hurls the insult back and talks of "wiping out" COPE.

There were fears that COPE's founding congress Tuesday could be disrupted, for the ANC organized a simultaneous conference of its war vets in Bloemfontein, plastering the Free State town with its posters and tearing down COPE's posters. The ANC is a hegemonic party and tends to regard any challenge to itself from within the black community as an act of treason. It bitterly objects to COPE's choice of Bloemfontein for its congress, saying this trades illegitimately on the fact that the ANC was founded there in 1912. It was even angrier that COPE chose Dec. 16 as its launch day, for that was the day on which the ANC launched its armed struggle in 1961.

It is difficult to say how potent an electoral challenge COPE will be able to mount, though it performed well in a series of municipal by-elections last week. Although it claims to have already signed up 428,000 members and clearly enjoys multiracial appeal, it has only a few months to organize itself from scratch before the general election expected in April or May. And among the rural black masses -- who will hardly have heard of COPE -- loyalty to the ANC is almost automatic. The only way to surmount that is by energetic campaigning, the seduction of key local elites and, almost certainly, tribalism.

That is a taboo word here. But the reality is that Zulus, the largest ethnic group, are massively engaged behind the notion of making Mr. Zuma the country's first Zulu president. Meanwhile, the second-biggest group, Xhosas, have grown used to the notion that they provide the ANC with its leaders: Oliver Tambo, followed by Nelson Mandela and then Thabo Mbeki. Many of them now feel dispossessed and fear that this will be felt in a loss of jobs, tenders and general patronage. This is why COPE tends to see the Xhosa-dominated Eastern and Western Cape as its heartland, followed by Mr. Lekota's own Free State. But if division does take place on tribal lines, we are in for a very violent election as the parties struggle for control of the ethnically mixed townships around Johannesburg, the country's economic nerve center.

The ANC is determined to crush COPE and will go after any public figure who dares support them, let alone those with the temerity to fund them. But business is extremely worried at the prospect of a Communist-led South Africa leading a major lurch to the left. So -- however discreetly -- COPE is liable to find the funds it needs.

The key question is whether COPE can win 20% of the vote -- enough, under South Africa's strictly proportional electoral system, to deprive the ANC of a parliamentary majority. In the Western Cape municipal by-elections last week it easily achieved that percentage, cutting the ANC vote by almost half. COPE could then ally with the liberal Democratic Alliance and other smaller parties to provide an alternative government and president. The prospect that this might happen has gripped the ANC, which had comfortably assumed, in Mr. Zuma's words, that it "will rule until Jesus comes back." Naturally, the Communists know that they are unlikely ever to have such a good chance again of taking over South Africa.

All of which means that the next election will certainly be the most important since 1994, and perhaps the most important South Africa has ever seen. Significantly, both Nelson Mandela and Thabo Mbeki have made it clear that they will both stay at home and will campaign for neither side.

Mr. Johnson is southern Africa correspondent for the Sunday Times of London.

Haha, stupid idiot. You'd think he'd want the public to forget about the cartoon, but instead suing Zapiro only re-raises awareness. That party clearly consists of a bunch of nutters.

What a prick, how can one come up with a figure to your dignity? shows how pathetic he really is, his ol pal Shabir is in Jail so he cant get palm off's from anyone now.

Nicholson's judgment on the Zuma trial has been overturned by the Supreme Court!!
Zuma's back on trial!!!

NPA wins appeal in Zuma case
12/01/2009 11:19 - (SA)

Bloemfontein - The Supreme Court of Appeal on Monday upheld an appeal by the National Director of Public Prosecutions against a high court ruling that halted the prosecution of ANC leader Jacob Zuma.

This means that Zuma, the front-runner for the presidency in the upcoming elections, will still have to face corruption charges.

- SAPA

THANK GOODNESS!

yey!!!!!

oh well it uneasy because of anc supporter will be angry

We're not out of the woods yet. If zuma appeals to the constitutional court and gets the decision turned around there its back to square one.

Shame, so much for Zuma to worry about, the NPA, his appeal, his election campaign, his wedding anniversary, his wedding of his 5th wife to plan, not forgetting to satisfy up and coming wife number 6. :ohno:

FCUK...i am tired of this soap opera!

i want this Zuma thing OVER.....NOW:bash:

Not many Zuma-fans around here..

its just way too much DRAMA!!

Hows this, Nicholson's judgement was said to be a suspicion, with regards to Thabo & Co co-inspiring to bring down Zuma & was never proven, but now the ANC still comes out and says they were right to recall Thabo. Some one please explain to me as to how were are the ANC still right when they were proven wrong?

Offshore pros queue for SA jobs
January 16, 2009

By Lucky Biyase

Johannesburg - Recruitment agencies have reported a dramatic increase in the number of international professionals and South Africans living abroad who are seeking employment in South Africa after the waves of retrenchments that have hit the US and Europe.

Penny Chaskelson, the managing director of The Personnel Concept, said the agency had seen an increase of between 20 percent and 25 percent in international professionals inquiring about employment opportunities in South Africa.

"There has been a dramatic increase in responses from all over the world, and that is first and foremost a result of the global financial crunch," she said. "However, this has also been exacerbated by the fact that some professionals were already happy to move to any location for the right job."

Georgina Barrick, the managing director of Renwick Talent, said the group had seen a jump in inquiries about employment opportunities in South Africa since September.

Some were from South Africans who had been working in financial services outside the country, mostly in the investment and banking sectors.

"We are receiving about five applications a week and about two-thirds of these are South Africans," she said. Approaches had come from London and other European capitals, but there had been sudden interest from Egypt, with four inquiries from that country last week.


Martin Westcott, the chief executive of Production Engineers Corporate Services, said the trend of international professionals seeking jobs in the country was logical because the South African economy was still showing some growth.

He said the trend had come at a time when South Africa needed to recruit more skilled professionals to reduce inefficiencies across the spectrum.

"This is as a result of skills shortages. Some companies were even failing to realise their employment equity targets, due to a lack of appropriately skilled personnel.

"The arrival of these personnel in the country could provide us with the opportunity of skills transfer," he said.

In apparent validation of this trend, the Umsobomvu Youth Fund said that it had taken advantage of the situation by recruiting 20 skilled professionals who would be partnered with 40 young South Africans to develop their skills.

Malose Kekana, the fund's chief executive, said 15 skilled professionals had been identified. They would be partnered with local youths "with the purpose of grooming them for us. We have put the effects of the financial crisis to good use."

Kekana said the professionals would not have great cost implications for the fund, as Umsobomvu would pay only for their flights, accommodation and meals.

Hows this, Nicholson's judgement was said to be a suspicion, with regards to Thabo & Co co-inspiring to bring down Zuma & was never proven, but now the ANC still comes out and says they were right to recall Thabo. Some one please explain to me as to how were are the ANC still right when they were proven wrong?

Have you not yet realised?! :lol: The ANC is always right! :lol:

The sky is blue! No, they say, it is cloudy, because during the struggle during Apartheid, it was grey and overcast and if you argue with us, you are Counter-revolutionary.

Trees are green! No they are not, our forefathers who fought for freedom, and only us, the ANC fought for Freedom, had to chop down trees for firewood, as they had nothing. Thus, in the ANC trees do not exist, next question. If you think otherwise, you are an Apartheid sympathiser!

Water is blue! No, it is not, the ANC categorically states that water is brown, as pre-1994, all water in Soweto was Afrikaner-tainted-water... it was brown as they tried to poison us and is not purified. Therefore water is brown. If you do not take our opinion, you are a Headless Snake, Dog and PW Botha-Puppet!

This is how the post-Polokwane logic works. Let us just hope the voting populous sees some of the light and takes votes away from these blundering, self-righteous, self-proclaimed-Gods, unintelligent, power-hungry, corrupt and self-preserving morons.

Follow Zuma 'like Jesus'
19/01/2009 08:30 - (SA)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: They are actually really more insane and stupid than I thought. Also, replacing Jesus's name in religious hymns with Zuma's is INDEED blasphemy and an utter insult to any Christian worldwide. Maybe they should compare Zuma to Mohammed and see what happens then!!! The ANC are becoming a tad "disgusting" to say the least!

Henry Cloete and Vicus Bürger

Bloemfontein - First Ace Magashule compared Jacob Zuma's suffering to the suffering of Jesus Christ. Now the Free State ANC chairperson says the ANC should follow Zuma in the same way that people in church follow Jesus.

Magashule's nomination to the top position in the provincial ANC was uncontested at the ANC's Free State list conference held in Bloemfontein at the weekend.

He is now merely steps away from the Free State premiership.

In the last speech of the afternoon, he told the nearly 900 delegates in the Bloemfontein city hall that the ANC should show unity and follow Zuma everywhere he went.

"In church they sing that they will follow Jesus wherever he goes. That's how we should be about Jacob Zuma," he said to loud applause.

He started off with a well-known hymn expressing exactly this sentiment, in which the name of Jesus has been replaced by that of Jacob Zuma.

Quiet and disciplined

After his speech he explained that the song had been used as early as the 1960s to express in song the ANC's loyalty to the late Albert Luthuli, an ANC icon and former leader of the party.

"If you go to the big churches, you will see there are thousands of people, but they are so quiet and disciplined. We also want to be like that. And we want to show unity in the way we follow Zuma."

It is not the first time that prominent ANC members have used Christian references while talking about the party and Zuma.

Last year Magashule told a crowd outside the Appeal Court in Bloemfontein that Zuma's "suffering at the hands of people who persecute and humiliate him", was similar to the suffering Jesus had to bear.

On occasion, Zuma himself has said the ANC would rule "until Jesus returns".

I'm tired of this shit about compare of zuma and jesus

LOL. They really know how to commit political suicide don't they? Who on this earth's votes do they think they'll win with comment like that?

http://www.news24.com/Images/Photos/20090513084334NO-NONSENSE.jpghttp://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/135000/images/_136528_pw_botha.jpg

Heh.

read in the economist that the planning commission is potentialy so powerful that it could become "the presidency's de facto executive arm". In a weird backdoor way it seems like Trevor Manuels could be running the country while Zuma does all the dancing and singing.

And do the dancing and singing he will.

Can't recall when last I LOLed so hard at Zapiro's work. http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu258/Onkez/Image628-001.jpg

^^ i don't agree with his politics, but yes, it's funny :D

Im sure Zuma will like that one

surely this Sbu Ndebele issue is a stich up to make JZ look good, Sbu supposedly gets a new motor on shakey ground and old JZ gets to come in and make it look like hes a changed man by getting his new found chommie to hand it back .

Eish arnt we clever crooks.

Lol.

ANC 'punishes' DA

May 21 2009 at 04:30PM

The ANC said on Thursday it has denied the Democratic Alliance the chairmanship of any of the parliamentary committees as punishment for party leader Helen Zille insulting President Jacob Zuma.

"It is a question of relations being serviced. There must be mutual respect between the parties," said African National Congress secretary general Gwede Mantashe, as he announced the party nominations for the positions.

"They have taken a position that is hostile. You first manage the hostility then you build a relationship."

Referring to Zille accusing Zuma of putting his wives at risk of contracting Aids, he accused her of showing "a total disrespect to the office of the president of the republic".

"We must have very thin skins to that. It cannot be allowed to continue," he added.

Mantashe said the Congress of the People was not given an opportunity to name one of the party chairs either "because it is a new animal".

"We must develop a relationship with that animal. We don't know it yet. It is not about dishing out chairs, it is about work."

The ANC has decided to retain Themba Godi from the African People's Convention as chair of Parliament's Standing Committee on Public Accounts (Scopa) because "he did well", Mantashe said.

It has nominated veteran MP Joan Fubbs as chairwoman of the trade and industry committee, former Limpopo finance MEC Thaba Mufamadi as chairman of the finance committee and Musi Coleman as chairman of the new economic development committee.

The National Assembly's portfolio committee chairs include:

# Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries: Lulu Johnson
# Communications: Ismail Vadi;
# Trade & Industry: Joan Fubbs;
# Economic Development: Busi Coleman;
# Transport: Ruth Bhengu;
# Science & Technology: Nqaba Ngcobo;
# Water and Environmental Affairs: Maggie Sotyu;
# Tourism: Don Gumede;
# Finance: Thaba Mufamadi;
# Mining: Fred Gono;
# Energy: Elizabeth Thabethe;
# Labour: Lumka Yengeni;
# Public Enterprises: Lindiwe Hendricks;
# Rural Development and Land Reform: Stoan Sizani;
# Correctional Services: Vincent Smith;
# Defence and Military Veterans: Mnyamezeli Booi;
# Justice and Constitutional Development: Nwako Ramahlodi;
# Constitutional Review: Patekile Holomisa;
# Police: Lydia Chikunga;
# International Relations and Corporation: Thulas Nxesi;
# Home Affairs: Ben Martins;
# Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs: Lechesa Tsenoli;
# Public Service and Administration: Joyce Moloi-Moropa;
# Basic Education: Fatima Chohan;
# Higher Education: Marius Fransman;
# Health: Bevan Goqwana;
# Human Settlements: Beauty Dambuza;
# Social Development: Yolanda Botha;
# Sports and Recreation: Butana Khompela;
# Arts and Culture: Simon Farisani;
# Women, Youth, Children and People with Disability: Barbara Thompson; and,
# Private members' legislative proposals and special petitions: Setlamorago Thobejane.

Other committees and chairs include:
# Joint Budget Committee on Appropriation: Elliot Sogoni, Kgauta Mokgoto (joint chairpersons);
# Joint Standing Committee on Defence: Hlengiwe Mgabadeli;
# Joint Standing Committee on State Security: Cecil Burgess;
# Joint Standing Committee on Auditor-General: Michael Masutha;
# Standing Committee on Public Accounts: Themba Godi; and,
# Women's Caucus: Beauty Dlulani.

The National Council of Provinces' select committee chairs include:

# Education and Recreation: Makgale Mamosoeu Wendy;
# Economic Development: Freddie Adams;
# Finance: Charel Jacobus De Beer;
# Governance and Administration: Matome Humphrey Mokgobi;
# Land and Environmental Affairs: Daphne Qikani;
# Public Services: Mtikeni Patrick Sibande;
# Labour and Public Enterprises: Malesane Priscilla Themba;
# Security and Constitutional Development: Harry Mofokeng;
# Social Services: Rachel Nomonde Rasmeni; and,
# Trade and International Relations: Dimusani Dennis Gamede

The caucus named Thandi Memela as NCOP Deputy Chairperson, and Papi Tau and Nosilivere Magadla as House Chairpersons. - Sapa

^^ My question is: Zille reiterated something Zuma's own legal council said: "He had sex with an HIV positive woman in an extra-marital affair." Yes, we will punish her... she's acting vindictively and fostering poor relationships! But, we may call her a "Sex craved racist little girl who uses her cabinet as male concubines to perform sexual favours," but that isn't acting vindictively or fostering poor relations... if any arm of the ANC says things like that it's perfectly okay, as long as the ANC-NEC "distances" themselves from it. It's also okay for our allies to threaten their provincial government with a coup and their provinces people with violence to make it ungovernable, that's okay too.

The mudslinging was fun at first but now I've grown tired of the playground antics.Taking sides,commenting on it,all of this is just a waste of time.These people are never going to listen to our opinions or even grow up anytime soon.

LOL. I love how the ANC have an overinflated sense of self-importance. They really are a joke of a party and the only reason they won the elections is because they have a band of mindless loyal followers. Sure, not all of their supporters are mindless, but the majority clearly are if they still vote for the ANC after all the crap they cause.

http://southafrica-pig.blogspot.com/

Look at what I found... :ohno:

Some people have too much time on their hands :P

Tell me about it, and they're all linked to each other like deathofjoburg as if it's some sort of little 'hate club' they have going on.

ANC angry over timing of Zille’s address

Western Cape Premier Helen Zille has defended her decision, amid angry protest from the African National Congress (ANC), to hold her opening address in Legislature before President Jacob Zuma delivers his first State of the Nation address.

Zille's spokesperson Robert Macdonald said on Monday she would deliver her speech on Friday because the Legislature needed to start work as soon as possible to meet an end of June deadline to adopt its budget.

"It is scheduled for the 29th because we have a budget to complete.

"We are not trying to be harsh but the (provincial) parliament needs to open so that we can get committees to go through the content of the budget."

Though provincial officer bearers pointed out that the Legislature started sitting earlier this month, he said the committees could only be constituted once Zille had delivered the speech.

The ANC's chief whip in the Western Cape legislature, Max Ozinsky, wrote to the Speaker demanding that Zille's speech, which will precede Zuma's State of the Address by four days, be moved to a later date.

"It is convention and tradition that Premiers make their State of the Province addresses after the President delivers his State of the Nation address, so that they may respond to the national policy framework and direction provided by the President.

"It would seem that this programme has been insisted on by the Premier, so that she can use her reply to the debate to respond to the President's address, without giving other parties this opportunity, as they will have spoken in the legislature debate before the President's address."

Macdonald said however that there was nothing in the Constitution that obliged the Premier to wait until after Zuma's June 3 State of the Nation address.

He said the Democratic Alliance-controlled Legislature was perhaps more pressed for time than those in other provinces, because it needed to review a budget drafted by the former African National Congress government.

"We are a new government. In other provinces an ANC government is handing over to an ANC government. But we want to review and change the budget to bring it in line with our policies."

Sources in the legislature said the timing of the speech would add to tension between the DA and the ANC which has soared since Zille won an outright majority in the Western Cape in April.

The ANC and its allies have criticised the Premier for appointing only male MECs, and she has in turn accused Zuma of being a womaniser who put his wives at risk of contracting Aids.

ANC secretary general Gwede Mantashe said last week the DA had been denied a chance to chair any of Parliament's portfolio committees because the party was "hostile".

Zille has in the meanwhile accused the ANC of transferring provincial land to the national authorities on the eve of the elections.

http://www.polity.org.za/article/anc-angry-over-timing-of-zilles-address-2009-05-25

ANC rebukes Youth League over Zille comments

The African National Congress (ANC) on Wednesday distanced itself from what it called the ANC Youth League's (ANCYL's) "deeply embarrassing" attack on Democratic Alliance (DA) leader Helen Zille.

"The ANC distances itself from comments by an ANC Youth League spokesperson yesterday (12 May 2009) about DA leader Helen Zille and her provincial Cabinet," secretary general Gwede Mantashe said in a statement.

He said the ruling party strongly objected to Zille's criticism of President Jacob Zuma's sexual conduct that Tuesday triggered a war of words, but could not tolerate the ANCYL's outburst.

Zille was quoted in the press as saying: "Zuma is a self-confessed womaniser with deeply sexist views, who put all his wives at risk by having unprotected sex with an HIV-positive woman."

She made the remark in response to criticism from Zuma's new Minister of Women, Youth, Children and People with Disabilities, Noluthando Mayende-Sibiya, on the all-male make-up of her provincial executive.

The Youth League hit back: "Zille has appointed an all male Cabinet of useless people, majority of whom are her boyfriends and concubines so that she can continue to sleep around with them (sic), yet she claims to have the moral authority to question our President."

Said Mantashe: "Zille's statements earlier in the week about President Jacob Zuma were indeed reprehensible and, quite correctly, were roundly condemned.

"She justly deserves criticism for the unrepresentative composition of her Cabinet.

"But this does not justify the comments by the ANC Youth League. These comments are deeply embarrassing to the ANC, and reflect a marked departure from the ANC's approach to political engagement," Mantashe said.

http://www.polity.org.za/article/anc-rebukes-youth-league-over-zille-comments-2009-05-13

ANC names committee chairs, snubs DA

The African National Congress (ANC) said on Thursday it has denied the Democratic Alliance (DA) the chairmanship of any of the Parliamentary committees as punishment for party leader Helen Zille insulting President Jacob Zuma. :nuts:

"It is a question of relations being serviced. There must be mutual respect between the parties," said ANC secretary-general Gwede Mantashe, as he announced the party nominations for the positions.

"They have taken a position that is hostile. You first manage the hostility then you build a relationship."

Referring to Zille accusing Zuma of putting his wives at risk of contracting Aids, he accused her of showing "a total disrespect to the office of the president of the republic".

"We must have very thin skins to that. It cannot be allowed to continue," he added.

Mantashe said the Congress of the People was not given an opportunity to name one of the party chairs either "because it is a new animal".

"We must develop a relationship with that animal. We don't know it yet. It is not about dishing out chairs, it is about work."

The ANC has decided to retain Themba Godi from the African People's Convention as chair of Parliament's Standing Committee on Public Accounts (Scopa) because "he did well", Mantashe said.

It has nominated veteran MP Joan Fubbs as chairperson of the Trade and Industry committee, former Limpopo finance MEC Thaba Mufamadi as chairman of the finance committee and Musi Coleman as chairperson of the new economic development committee.

http://www.polity.org.za/article/anc-names-committee-chairs-snubs-da-2009-05-21

Even COPE is having a go it seems.

ANC culture threat to democracy – Lekota

The Congress of the People's (Cope's) president Terror Lekota said on Saturday that South Africa's democracy is being undermined by a culture of intolerance within the African National Congress (ANC) that resulted in violence against members of his party during the April elections.

"There was a lot of hate speech and psychical attacks. How can a party that championed democracy deny people freedom of speech?" he said halfway through Cope's three-day national conference in Cape Town.

"It is a culture of intolerance of opposition and critical voices by the ruling party. In particular that culture focused on Cope."

Lekota, a former ANC chairperson and Cabinet Minister, said his fledgling party, which holds 30 seats in Parliament, suspected that the shooting of Cope official Gerland Yona in the Eastern Cape on election day was politically-motivated.

"Although the matter is still under investigation, there are indications that this is not just a criminal act."

He said that several Cope members were maimed in other attacks, adding that last month's polls also saw clear attempts at election fraud and the abuse of State funds to sway voters.

"Leaders of government from the ruling party used public resources in such a way as to hold citizens to ransom so that they should vote for it. These are very disturbing trends because they affect the quality of our democracy.

Lekota left the ANC in protest last year after Thabo Mbeki was recalled as President, but on Saturday said a failure to address corruption was one of the reasons that convinced him he had to leave.

"When people were caught in blatantly corrupt activities, rather than address it there was a tendency to close ranks around each other. I decided I could no longer be part of it."

Lekota said his own party was hamstrung by a lack of funds but conceded that after being launched with much fanfare it also made tactical mistakes in the run-up to the election.

It polled just over 7% and become the third biggest party in Parliament.

"We have taken note of the fact that we started on a very high note but owing to various circumstances our campaign did at some point suffer, sometimes for reasons beyond our control but there were also misjudgements on our part.

"We were bound to have fits and starts."

Lekota said the three-day meeting would decide on a date for Cope to hold a conference to formally elect its office bearers and decide how it would fine-tune its policies and build structures.

Cope's founding conference in Bloemfontein in December decided that a leadership vote should be held within two years, but it could be sooner than that, he said.

Delegates at the weekend chose Mbhazima Shilowa, Cope's first deputy president, as its chief whip in Parliament and 11th-hour ANC defector Dennis Bloem as the whip in the National Council of Provinces.

Lekota denied reports of internal strife about his move to remain at party headquarters instead of taking up a seat in Parliament.

He said he had decided even while he was still in the ANC, that he wanted to give up his seat in the National Assembly and was happy to leave the role of Parliamentary leader to the party's presidential candidate, political novice Mvume Dandala.

Four of Cope's media officers - JJ Thabane, Sipho Ngwema, Palesa Morudu and Lorato Tshenkeng - have stopped working in recent weeks in protest at not being paid.

Party communications chief Phillip Dexter said the dispute was unfortunate but that nobody who volunteered to help Cope establish itself and campaign for the elections was offered a salary.

http://www.polity.org.za/article/anc-culture-threat-to-democracy-lekota-2009-05-25

Hehe! I met JZ for an interview on Friday, had a good 30 min one on one chin wag with him. Sounds like he knows whats potting, I dont think its all doom and gloom. :)

I honestly believe that all these politicians need to grow the F up....
At the end of the day, they all there for the same reason, to make SA a better place for all who live in it.
Its time they all stop their ongoing bitching and start working (including Mrs Zille and President ZUMA)
They dont have to like each other, but they need to work together.

Hehe! I met JZ for an interview on Friday, had a good 30 min one on one chin wag with him. Sounds like he knows whats potting, I dont think its all doom and gloom. :)

Saw the pic's on Facebook, what was it about? you doing an HD documentry on him................stay away from the shower though :rofl:


& whats this in the news that the MK Vet's want to march to force Zille to apologise to Zuma about her comments. What she said is true? The real ones that need to apologise is the ANCYL for making those comments that "she slept around" with her cabinet.

Saw the pic's on Facebook, what was it about? you doing an HD documentry on him................stay away from the shower though :rofl:


Nah!....just doing some portfolio stuff for the Jacob Zuma Foundation.

Institute warns on Zuma cabinet
The South African Institute of Race Relations has warned that the Zuma cabinet was poorly structured and risked policy paralysis within government.

Jacob Zuma’s new cabinet is poorly structured and conceived. It will compromise the ability of the government to produce and implement coherent policy, particularly on the economic front. It will compromise accountability of individual ministers, undermine their authority, and vest an inappropriate monitoring and evaluation role in the government. At the same time it appears as if it took Jacob Zuma less than 24 hours to abdicate most of his presidential responsibilities onto Trevor Manuel. All of the above is wholly at odds with initial media and public reaction to the announcement of the Zuma cabinet. A number of business groups, civil society organizations, newspapers - including business papers that should know better, and even opposition parties where full of praise for the new cabinet. One opposition party was so impressed with the new arrangement that it even found itself playing a senior role in that cabinet. But the new cabinet is a shambles and this is why:


There are too many portfolios each tasked with economic policy making. The ministers of finance, planning, economic development, and trade and industry will each have a direct hand in formulating economic policy. Two of these ministries, economic development and trade and industry, are headed by individuals with strong trade union or communist party sympathies. The other two, finance and planning, are headed by individuals with an arguably more pragmatic economic outlook. Even if open policy conflict is avoided it is difficult to see how a paralysis of policy will not result within government. This is particularly so when you consider that the ministers of mining, energy, public enterprises, labour, and public works also have a direct hand in economic policy making. The chance of meaningful implementation of coherent economic policy is limited.

It will be extremely difficult to hold individual ministers accountable for their performance. Take just the example of employment targets. If these are not met any one of eight ministers could be held accountable. The most likely result is that no-one will be held accountable as each ministry will simply pass the responsibility onto the next one. While such an arrangement may suit politicians it will compromise government’s ability to implement policy and is a very unsatisfactory outcome.

In order to avoid the shambles of policy paralysis warned of above, Trevor Manuel appears to have been handed the task of coordinating policy formulation across all ministries and tiers of government. But it is a problematic appointment because the responsibility to coordinate policy across cabinet portfolios is that of the President. It therefore appears as if Jacob Zuma has abdicated much of his presidential responsibility within the first 24-hours of his presidency. While Trevor Manuel has the competence to fulfill his new role it remains to be seen whether he has been granted the authority within the cabinet to overrule the policy work of his colleagues.

If he is granted that authority the cabinet will be a hierarchy of ministers. Those at the bottom of the pile will effectively have their authority undermined. That will in turn undermine the whole concept of having cabinet ministers in the first place. If a minister will be required to in effect report to a senior minister then his or her portfolio should originally have been incorporated into the senior minister’s portfolio. The saving in terms of money but also efficiency and adequate accountability would have been substantial.

The role of assessing the performance of the cabinet must be played by Parliament not by the new ministry of performance and assessment. Traditionally Parliament has not done this to the extent that it should have because opposition parties were too small and the ANC in Parliament was not interested in doing so. We are therefore faced with the extraordinary situation where much of the responsibility for holding the government to account has been handed to that same government through a structure conceived by that government. This is not a positive development and again bodes ill for ensuring the most effective implementation of policy and therefore delivery by the government.

Considering the challenges faced by the new government it is unfortunate that they have employed such a cumbersome structure to meet those challenges. This is particularly so considering that a number of highly competent individuals have taken senior cabinet posts. One hopes that their talents are not squandered by the environment they are now expected to work in. It would have been more desirable to have a smaller cabinet composed of no more that 15 to 20 ministries with clearly defined portfolios. Cabinet ministers would then have clear authority for policy making within their portfolios and could easily be held to account by Parliament. The President would carry the responsibility for policy implementation and coordination which is the role his office is tasked with.

- Frans Cronje

http://www.sairr.org.za/sairr-today/news_item.2009-05-13.3631131794/

http://www.mg.co.za/article/2009-05-31-businessman-offers-zuma-r1billion-to-fight-crime


let's hope Zuma accepts the offer.

Mbeki, no comment...

Sounds like a pretty decent offer, but in all honesty SA doesnt need money from a private sector to sort its problems out, theres surely that much in its budget to solve the issue.

well, the major difference between us and the rest of africa is that we have a powerful private sector, both financially and in terms of their political influence. i think there's no harm in the private sector kick starting such a project, but the government has to maintain and upgrade it.

Throwing money at it is not going to solve the crime problem in this country.

throwing money at people who can do something about it might.

I know the businessman. He's not small minded by any means - he's also a strong influence in the ANC. I reckon he would want to have quite a bit of control over the money that is spent - audits and personnel reviews and so on. I think what he's trying to do is set a bit of a standard and give the whole system a boost from that perspective.

Call for legal ban of old SA flag
Murray Williams
June 04 2009 at 09:52AM

A South African political commentator has called for the old South African flag to be legally banned, as was the swastika in post-Nazi Germany.

Khaya Dlanga said this week: "As I celebrated the emphatic victory of the Blue Bulls over the Chiefs, a bad taste was left in my mouth when I saw an old South African flag waving in the stadium.

"That flag is right up there with the use of the word 'k*****' as far as I'm concerned. If you wave that flag in front of me that's what you are calling me."

This comes after a statement by Deputy Sports Minister Gert Oosthuizen, who said it was an insult to the government and President Jacob Zuma, who took time out to personally wish the Bulls well.

'The only place that flag must be in is a museum'
"I didn't see the flag," said Oosthuizen, "but if it is the case, it is absolutely tragic that there are still people who would do such a thing.

"It's absolutely unacceptable, and something which the government wants to get rid of.

"It is such a pity when something like this happens - especially as South African sport is on the crest of a wave, with the Springboks and the Blitzbokke being world champions."

Dlanga argued: "The only place that flag must be in is a museum. We cannot pretend that this flag never existed, but we cannot hide the waving of the flag behind freedom of expression. Like any freedom we enjoy, freedom of expression has limits. A freedom with no limits leads to anarchy."

He said Chapter 2, section 16 of the country's Bill of Rights said: "Everyone has the right to freedom of expression," but this did "not extend to propaganda for war; incitement of imminent violence; or advocacy of hatred that is based on race, ethnicity, gender or religion, and that constitutes incitement to cause harm".

Dlanga said: "That flag will incite violence. "It also advocates hatred based on race and ethnicity. Banning that flag does not only protect those who are subjected to what it advocates, but those who advocate the hate it symbolises, too."

SA Rugby head Oregan Hoskins said on Tuesday: "It's helluva sad that the people around him didn't pull it away. It happened in Durban a few years back. I hate it (the old flag). I resent it, but I always lean towards the freedom of whatever.

"John Smit came out some time back speaking out against the old flag, and that's what we need. We're going to get our top Springboks speaking out against it. That's going to have more effect than banning it."

Jessie Duarte, speaking for the ANC on Wednesday, said in response: "Obviously we would expect South Africans to be loyal to the current flag, but there's never been any discussion about banning the old flag."

^^ I do not like the old flag. It has very negative connotations that go with it. However, I feel a legislated ban on it is in direct contravention of the "Freedom of Speech" clause in our constitution. I think what we should rather be encouraging, is the populace to frown upon the use of the flag in public arenas and make it more of a societal taboo than a legal ban. Also, stadiums are private property with right of admission reserved. Just as some stadiums may ban ambush marketing and glass bottles, they have the right to refuse the flag to be brought in. That is a much more constitutionally responsible way of handling this sensitive matter.

iol (http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=vn20090604055503699C400786)

http://www.iol.co.za/data/picdb/8/2/newspic4a2781345f251

News24 Sport Blog (http://sportblogs.24.com/ViewBlog.aspx?blogid=5c9c7c8d-f6eb-4343-a5c0-b96758f5fa84)

http://albums.24.com/DisplayImage.aspx?id=cb2a4b8f-e5f6-49ce-8d2e-21e47e170d52&t=o
http://albums.24.com/DisplayImage.aspx?id=15943448-4147-4cae-9477-e13dce75d733&t=o

These guy need to caught and name and shame!!!!

I hate that old flag as well!!!

But I agree with Annman. Rather than make a legal ban (which will be over overblown and become a highly sensitive and controversial issue) rather turn it in a social taboo. We have a constitution and we have freedom of expression, so unless if they make direct hatred speech let them wave their stupid little flags. Its not worth the trouble for making so much a fuss for a handful of idiots....

Besides I did hear the people around them told them to put the flags away..... something that the article (maybe intentionally) avoids to mention

Ah, so the old flag rears its ugly head once again...

I don't like it either, but we can't deny the past by banning it.

^^ I blame the backward parents... those okes look 16-17 (High School)... What's so sad, is us in the Cape get fingers pointed at us from the rest of SA for being "unAfrican," yet, our Afrikaaners are much more progressive, much more liberal, much more culturally in tune and would never tolerate that type of backward thinking crap.

That is shocking and utterly disgraceful! It is people like that, who is holding our country back from progressing.
Totally agree with you Annman about people in the cape being accused of being unAfrican.
I am 100% behind the idea of banning that flag

Were those little kids even around when that flag was used and understand what it symbolises !!!!!! Its just twats looking for attention

Dumb morons prob dont even know the significance of the damn thing

Zille hits back at race critics
Andisiwe Makinana
June 05 2009 at 11:44AM

It is racist for people to claim that the DA's pre-election "Stop Zuma" campaign was a campaign against black people, DA leader and Western Cape Premier Helen Zille said at the provincial parliament on Thursday.

Zille was addressing the issue of "deep divisions" in the province during a response to criticism of her State of the Province address. Earlier this week, opposition parties were given the chance to respond to her speech. On Thursday, it was Zille's turn.

"We have to move in this country from the notion when one person who happens to be white, criticises someone who happens to be black, we cry racism," Zille said.

"We reject the notion that criticism of one person is the criticism of everybody. That is racial nationalism," she said.

'It is wrong to suggest that 'Stop Zuma' was an attack on black people'
Zille was responding to an attack from COPE's Allan Boesak who charged earlier this week that she had missed the opportunity of addressing the province's divisions in her State of the Province address.

Zille said she was "very aware" of the deep divisions in the province, adding that the DA would be a party of addition not of divisions. Her party's elections campaign slogans like "One Nation, One Future" pointed to this.

The ANC's Garth Strachan interjected: "Stop Zuma?"

Zille responded that the "Stop Zuma" drive was not racist.

"It is wrong to suggest that 'Stop Zuma' was an attack on black people."

Meanwhile, Zille is considering taking legal action against those who continually label her a racist.

"When they are calling me a racist they are not just insulting me, that's not the point. What they are doing is delegitimising criticism and demonising anybody who stands up to the ANC," she told the Cape Argus last night.

Zille triggered a seemingly endless torrent of abuse from the ANC's alliance partners recently, after she responded to a Cape Argus article regarding the composition of her cabinet.

Additional reporting by Ella Smook.

Banning the flag is not a good idea. But instilling it into people that it's unnacceptable to be waving it around is what should be done.

Behind the smile - media lessons from JZ

To listen to Jacaranda 94.2 is to step back and across into an alternate dimension - one where the soundtrack is pure eighties pop. Bizarre. George Michael, Sheena Easton, Marc Alex, Billy Idol... And then there's Just Plain Darren, erstwhile Supersport, 5FM and East Coast jock, along with his trusty sidekick John Walland. Damn, I thought they'd both disappeared into club hockey but no - they're on Jacaranda.

So is Jacob Zuma. In fact, in the week beginning 21st July 2008, as he was cited by many papers for 'wooing whites' he also popped up several times on Jacaranda, in various capacities. I heard the afternoon jock reference JZ's viewpoint on some issue or the other, with nigh-respect in the voice... and when the Jacaranda morning charity drive delivered blankets in Thembisa, JZ was there too. The JZ sound bite the station played was pure PR slick. It went something along the lines of, 'thank you for these blankets. They show people living in poverty that somebody cares.' The emphasis on the somebody was subtle and decisive and illustrated everything JZ has that Thabo doesn't. Most larnies in this country don't seem to give a damn, he said to the 6 million Jacaranda faithful, but somebody, some person (who most likely tunes into 94.2 and loves Darren Scott), does. This is media mastery at its best because the sound bite is benign as text. What makes it work is the delivery, the nuance placed on the word and the warmth and meaning in the voice.

Thabo never was a storyteller and, looking back, it's clear when he exposed what ultimately proved to be his biggest weakness - a devastating lack of story and visible empathy. Less than a year into his presidency more and more 'he isn't Madiba' comments began to arise in the media and in general society. In response Thabo started dressing casual, and, unbelievably, to dance. Suddenly there he was on the podium at rallies in Madiba garb attempting a pitiful rip-off of the shuffle. Retrospectively, the image has become even more painful than it was at the time because it clearly signified the fact that he would never be able to communicate properly with his people at all. He just doesn't have it in him.

In 2008, when one examines the PR skills JZ possesses and compares them to Thabo, JZ blows the short stiff grey one out the water. Indeed, given the wall of opposition JZ has faced in the media over the last few years, to say nothing of the barrels of seemingly incriminating 'legal' evidence that appear to render his position untenable, his 'reputation enhancement' drive has come straight out of the top drawer. They just don't (because they can't) teach this stuff. Some people are simply born naturals. For Naas it was a mis-shapen leather ball, for Jacob it's the press.

The harsh, dirty reality of politics is something American writer Hunter Thomson expressed many years ago, and we should never forget it. It's the pig f*#$!er principle, and here's how it works. In politics, and especially if you're down in the polls, in the media, in an election or in an important power struggle of whatever flavour, call your opponent a pig f*#$!er. Launch a savage attack in the media and - regardless of whether he's a fine religious man or a sleezy punk - he'll be forced to deny it. To deal with it, to waste time and resources and to risk the wrath of Deborah Patter's angry jaw as he says the words, in public, over and over again: pig f*#$!er. pig f*#$!er. pig f*#$!er. Pretty soon, regardless of how close he'd ever been to a pig, in the public domain he and the porkies are forever carnally entwined.

The hard reality is that all politicians in all countries spend a massive amount of their time both implementing and defending themselves against the pig f*#$!er principle. Indeed, the world's truly successful politicians, the one's who became icons, have, one way or another, actually mastered this brutal mix of power and media manipulation. Bill Clinton, JFK, Malcolm X, Nelson Mandela, Tony Blair, Ronald Reagan, Margie Thatcher, Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez and maybe, choke on it if you will, Jacob Zuma?

It's too early yet to say whether JZ will climb the full mountain range of political obstacles in his path, but his ability to master the pig f*#$!er principle is, by any objective measure, remarkable.

So look, this isn't a punt for JZ. I'm too crusty and cynical for that. Politics is the hardest game, played by the meanest, most sinister power-hungry fat bellies the world had the ill fortune to spawn. None of them should ever be trusted, on anything. Ever. Thabo has Jackie Selebi, JZ has Shabir, Dubya has Halliburton, the Clintons had everybody, JFK had a penchant for cocaine and street girls... politics is dirty and filled with pig f*#$!ers. Nevertheless, listening to Jacaranda 94.2 I started to figure that at some stage someone will have to recognise the man for the media giant he is quickly becoming. So what the hell, it may as well be me. In a short year JZ has successfully schmoozed all the grey haired English suits, the boere-mafia businessmen, the average eighties loving middle class Afrikaners, most of the international investor community and on and on and on.

The Freedom Front are inviting him to open their convention this year.

I'll leave it at that.

Brought to you by www.andrewkmiller.co.za

The Freedom Front are inviting him to open their convention this year.

Oh lawd.

NNP the sequel :ohno:

^^ Oh Boy!!! Political parties don't have to constantly fight each other... but the FF+ Youth Leader was right and so was the DA: You cannot be the opposition and stand for different ideals, but accept a post in government and sleep in the same bed as the ANC. Unfortunately, this makes Afrikaaners look like their easily co-opted people with no backbone.

It's not the first time.

i have nothing against mulder being a deputy minister. but there a huge difference between that and inviting the ANC to your party's events.