^^ I have, and I agree with him :) (there are already a few modernized KT8's with wooden seats out there in Prague)

OK my backside must be different from typical Czech backside. :lol:

At end of contract you will have over 15,500 wooden seats to enjoy and I will bring my cushion to Prague :lol:

I had chance to sit on wooden seats only once in my life and it was like a ride on a roller coaster.. very slippery :) But it was in bus in Ljubljana and the driver was really enjoying every curve of the road, so i hope it wont be such a problem in 15T...

Wooden seat is still better than textile one, but plastic is number one for me. I'm not sure but I think there was a poll about future seats and the wooden had won among public, so that's why we have them now. Still, they could possibly switch to plastic during the production, if there would be any interest of a public.

Wooden seat is still better than textile one, but plastic is number one for me. I'm not sure but I think there was a poll about future seats and the wooden had won among public, so that's why we have them now. Still, they could possibly switch to plastic during the production, if there would be any interest of a public.

So far people didn't get a chance to try out the plastic seats. They have only been used in T3M number 8029 which had a severe crash and was subject to several experiments (also with seats) after being repaired. So I'm not surprised that the people chose the wooden seats. They are visually more appealing. Furthermore the yellow colour of the plastic seats in pre-prototype 9200 sort of disqualified them.

I think that the wooden seats will be OK, and I really like the overall design of the tram. 99% of the people don't care much about the design anyway. For them things like modern/old or clean/dirty are important. And details like buzzer sound are important too. There are (lots of) people who avoid T6A5's because they don't want to become hearing impaired.

I am puzzled that a decision was made on wooden seats without the public being able to extensively trial all three types fitted in the 15T prototype - I thought that was the idea, but the public has not been allowed near 15T in service yet, so the decision seems premature. If the decision was made by public survey this must have been based on appearance because, sure, the wooden seats do look very nice aesthetically.

Strangely enough I thought the most comfortable seats in your public transport is the original plastic (fibreglass?) seats fitted in T3s from 1960s. These fit the human body shape very well unlike the wooden seats that have good lumbar support but are hard and slippery under the bum.

Anyway I look forward to reports on 15T seats on SCF from your gentlemen's backsides after 15T is in service! :cheers:

New czech trams Inekon 12 trio arrived to Washington DC. See pictures:

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-sjc1/hs291.snc3/28214_1415912071246_1035912165_1191733_8203283_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-sjc1/hs311.snc3/28214_1415912151248_1035912165_1191735_2578865_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs291.snc3/28214_1415912311252_1035912165_1191738_5874085_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-sjc1/hs311.snc3/28214_1415920871466_1035912165_1191793_6826053_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs321.ash1/28214_1415912111247_1035912165_1191734_6372210_n.jpg

Omlouvam se za off-topic, ale Vlkere nemame nahodou stejneho znameho (Zuzka Chrystofova)?

15T still undergoing tests, test with passangers should start this June
http://tram-forum.prazsketramvaje.cz/download.php?id=7968&mode=view

News story about 15T starts at 11:40, some interesting info out there - in czech
http://www.ct24.cz/vysilani/2010/05/08/10116288835-210411058230019-11:32-z-metropole/1/

First 100% low floor in Prague...
http://tram-forum.prazsketramvaje.cz/download.php?id=7976&mode=view

First 100% low floor in Prague...
The first one owned by DPP ;) Actually there has been a 100% LF tram in Prague even with passenger access (which 15T has yet to achieve) over 17 years ago, though only for a few days:
http://tram-forum.prazsketramvaje.cz/download.php?id=5891&mode=view

I have seen 15T live for the first time today and must say those wooden seats look great in such a modern vehicle.

The first one owned by DPP ;) Actually there has been a 100% LF tram in Prague even with passenger access (which 15T has yet to achieve) over 17 years ago, though only for a few days:
http://tram-forum.prazsketramvaje.cz/download.php?id=5891&mode=view

Nice find, never heard of this one.

I have seen 15T live for the first time today and must say those wooden seats look great in such a modern vehicle.
My eyes and my backside have different opinions! :lol:

even with passenger access
LOL love the tapes across the door! Don't you know public transport systems run more perfectly without passengers? :bash:

V Olomouci se plánuje výstavba nové tramvajové trati od tržnice (poblíž centra města) směrem na Nové Sady. Trať má vést kolem nového areálu Šantovka, který se začíná budovat na místě areálu Mila. Více na http://zpravodajstvi.olomouc.cz/clanky/Tramvajova-trat-pres-Santovku-bude-koncit-v-Rooseveltove-ulici-13738 nebo http://www.mediafax.cz/regiony/3000169-Olomouc-bude-mit-novou-tramvajovou-trat

News story about 15T starts at 11:40, some interesting info out there - in czech
http://www.ct24.cz/vysilani/2010/05/08/10116288835-210411058230019-11:32-z-metropole/1/

First 100% low floor in Prague...
http://tram-forum.prazsketramvaje.cz/download.php?id=7976&mode=view

:cheers: nice tram. :okay:

V Olomouci se plánuje výstavba nové tramvajové trati od tržnice (poblíž centra města) směrem na Nové Sady
Dik, moc Vam zavidim, poněvadž naše pitomce v vladě nemysli na toto :bash:

No, ona se v té Olomouci ale plánuje už jakou dobu :lol: Mimo jiné to snad stojí na nedostatečné kapacitě vozovny a dalších okolnostech. Jestliže probíhá další vlna medializace těchto plánů, bohužel bych to spíše přisoudil blížícím se volbám, než nějakému skutečnému postupu. Rád bych se ovšem mýlil, Olomouc je podle mě jedno z těch vhodnějších měst pro rozsáhlejší páteřní tramvajovou síť. ;)

A friend of mine works in Skoda Transportation in Plzen. He told me there were lot's of troubles while testing the new trams in Prague so he guesses this may take much time to get the vehicles work properly to put them on rails in "nezkusebni jizda" mode ;)

Some of you may have seen recent discussion under "Prague trams" in "subways and urban transport" section of SCF, including this very interesting paper:

http://webak.upce.cz/~lata/konference/sbornik-clanky/79_86_zelingr_heptner.pdf

This is a big request, but I would be very grateful if anyone can at least provide English summary of the main points/paragraphs in the paper. Google translate cannot handle it and my limited Czech does not extend much beyond the supermarket into the technical arena! I know generally that it is a review of running gear (bogies) in trams and the evolution towards returning to traditional bogies in low floor trams but I would love to see the details a bit better. Any help would be appreciated. :cheers:

Some of you may have seen recent discussion under "Prague trams" in "subways and urban transport" section of SCF, including this very interesting paper:

http://webak.upce.cz/~lata/konference/sbornik-clanky/79_86_zelingr_heptner.pdf


It's OK - translation available thanks to Sch1 :)

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=57154979&postcount=78

iDnes vydalo zajímavý článek (http://technet.idnes.cz/tunel-blanka-zrusi-ramusak-jediny-tramvajovy-most-pres-vltavu-pvv-/tec_reportaze.asp?c=A100518_195756_tec_reportaze_rja) na téma konec Trojského tramvajového mostu. Píše se tam mimo jiné, že v souvislosti se stavbou tunelu Blanka byla vybudována jednokolejná přes tramvajový most, a musela se zvýšit výška mostu na Trojské straně. Trať na trojské straně vede přes betonový strop dokončeného hloubeného úseku tunelu Blanka. Původní trať vedla moc nízko, a tak by nebylo možné dokončit celý hloubený tunel. Vzhledem k tomu, že stavba nového Trojského mostu je zpožděna, bude takto improvizovaná trať v provozu do září 2012.

Can someone confirm is it true 15T will enter public service in July on route 18 (Pankrac depot)?

Can someone confirm is it true 15T will enter public service in July on route 18 (Pankrac depot)?

Nobody can confirm that at the moment, it's basically just a guess which is likely to come true. The chance that it will enter service in July from Pankrác is pretty big, but the route isn't known yet. There are indeed rumours that it will be line 18, but the situation can change every day.

Odd question I know, but does anyone know what the allowed speed limit is for T3/T6 trams (that is conventional bogie trams, not 14T) going round 90 degree corners (say 20 m radius curve)?

Interesting question, I have tried to find a good answer. My first idea was that in Czech Republic in general there are no speed limits for every curve.
I have found this presentation (In Czech sadly)
www.sdp-cr.cz/skup/OSTRAM/manazerske_vzdelavani/2009/PaTvTD8.ppt
And that proved it. There is no general limit, usually it is left to the driver. Only on special cases and in case of deteriorated track there is a speed limit sign before a curve. In Prague there are more and more, what I have heard.

Modern trams have a GPS with track map and speed limits, the systems slows down the tram automatically and informs the driver. Older system exists that brakes the tram according to the angle of the bogies.

But back to your question. What I have learned from that presentation centrifugal acceleration should not exceed a<0,8m/s^2. The formula is a=v^2/R. That gives exactly 14,4km/h for a radius of 20m and actually some of the sharp curves in Prague have a sign with 15km/h speed limit.

But because the driver uses only his perception of centrifugal acceleration and that may be misleading especially when a long train is leaving a curve, the speeds are exceeded up to twice the maximum, thus the radial acceleration up to four times. A study has shown that the centrifugal acceleration in the end of the second car is often 3m/s^2. You might have felt it a few years ago in the 22 on Karlovo náměstí on your perpetual route to I.P. Pavlova. :) The drivers there often hurried and the centrifuge in the last car was a great attraction.

Unfortunately in the opposite direction in 2005 there was a tragic accident when the driver of T3 was leaving the inner and sharper curve with 40km/h, the second car derailed and before the driver found it out and stopped, the tram has killed 2 people on a tram stop in opposite direction 40meters from the curve. Since then there is a speed limit sign before the curve and the ride through that intersection is much more safe and comfortable. There is even a video from a traffic camera, a horrifying sight, therefore I would not post a link here. I have calculated the centrifugal acceleration to 5m/s^2.

The 14T has a GPS that slows down automatically, in some semiautomatic speed control mode probably, and also breaks according to the angle of the bogies, in some manual mode probably. Because of that, there are no special speed limit signs for 14T. With the 14 T the speed in curves is usually 5-10km/h lower. I found that from a conversation of tram drivers on Czech tram-forum.

So that was a long answer to your short question. :nuts:

Thank you Sch1 for your typical highly informative answer. That is very helpful and expands the point in the Wikipedia article on Skoda 15T that fixed bogie trams are limited on 20m curves to 4-15 kph. So I was wondering about equivalent performance of pivoting bogie trams.

In Melbourne I understand Citadis and Combino are limited to 4 kph on such radius and Sydney Variotram seems to be also at walking speed. (Back in Australia this is frustrating for my 8 year old daughter who is missing her high-speed "tram surfing" in Prague and was a big enthusiast of the centrifugal force at the rear of the second car of a T3 set - her favourite position! She wants to be a Prague tram driver when she grows up :lol:)

I also have information from an American tram engineer that limit for 20m curve is 13 kph regardless of whether fixed bogie or PCC. I found this hard to believe for a PCC so this is why I am asking. I suspect US practice is more conservative.

(And yes I have also seen Karlovo namesti derailment video on the internet - that is very disturbing but unfortunately it often takes such incidents to prove limits.)

So Riga managed to "beat" Prague after all..
Today at 12:59 first 15T started public service on Rigas tram line #6. Full gallery can be found here (http://www.tvnet.lv/galleries/show/6405).

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/2186/15t.png

So Riga managed to "beat" Prague after all..

LOL, 2010 Tram Olympics:

Latvia = 1
Czech Republic = 0

(Well there's always the argument that it's better to try on other guinea pigs before experimenting on your own people! :lol:)

That´s too bad for Prague. Less bureaucracy = more fun. It´s not as bad as in the Netherlands though, where they interrupted traffic on a highway 3000x because of safety concerns. Luckily, I will visit Riga this summer, so I may try out their 15T earlier than the Prague one. :banana:

(Well there's always the argument that it's better to try on other guinea pigs before experimenting on your own people! :lol:)

That's right. However, I, as a Czech, would rather be the guinea pig itself :lol:

Bureaucracy in NL is indeed horrible, but sometimes i had a feeling that Dutchies simply like it and stick to all rules although they know they might be absurd(not talking about bike driving). But once i remember dutch teacher telling me, that countries of former Austria-Hungary are known for enormous bureaucracy :lol:

Video of guinea pigs enjoying new tram, some Czech voices are speaking behind...

X_U1JB5lubg&feature=player_embedded

That's right. However, I, as a Czech, would rather be the guinea pig itself :lol:
I think it's fine to be human :) The homologation process in Prague might take too long, but the one in Riga seems to be a bit too short. Is it really safe to carry passengers after a few weeks? :nuts:

Bureaucracy in NL is indeed horrible, but sometimes i had a feeling that Dutchies simply like it and stick to all rules although they know they might be absurd(not talking about bike driving). But once i remember dutch teacher telling me, that countries of former Austria-Hungary are known for enormous bureaucracy :lol:

The Dutch bureaucracy is a little different for common people, as you can fill in many papers online which makes it bearable. I asked for all sorts of benefits this year (like a gipsy :)) and it wasn't hard to get them. But the Dutch approach is devastating when it comes to building tunnels. All large tunnel projects of the last decade have enormous problems. This tunnel on the A73 which i mentioned (thousands of closures), the tunnels on the Noord-Zuidlijn in Amsterdam (building a metro line for 16!!! years because of safety) or the tram tunnel in The Hague, where something went wrong during construction and the tunnel was flooded for several years before they decided to continue with the construction works. :lol::lol::lol:

Don't tell me about Czech bureaucracy! The paperwork we have to deal with, and one of us with no Czech education since leaving CZ at age nine (therefore only conversational rather than formal knowledge) and the other an English speaker. Some of the forms have thousands of words on them, I'm sure it hasn't changed since Svejk and the Austro-Hungarian bureaucracy! Like the Dutch, with British/Australian bureaucracy you can do a lot online as an individual so it's not too bad, but in terms of the development process we are very bureaucratic whereas the Czech system seems to accomplish more much quicker. I have read that one of the factors that is slowing return of trams in UK is the bureaucratic process and their tram lobbyists are always comparing with the French who achieve it much more quickly and efficiently.

I agree with Tramfreak that Riga seemed to get into 15T with indecent haste, like a child who cannot wait till Christmas to open the present! I hope it goes OK. I admit I was an Australian guinea pig last year but it was not easy, a lot of testing equipment on board and I was told not to stick my finger into a meter that had 600 volts in it! :nuts: But it was great - except for the wooden seats :bash: :lol: The Riga seats look much more comfortable.

Czech railroad bureaucracy in general sucks.

Holt Čehona byl občan pilný... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translations_of_Gott_erhalte_Franz_den_Kaiser)

Czech Norris thanks for posting this video. Lately Ukrainian authorities decided to buy 58 new trams for Donetsk, so it might be these modern Škoda street cars :)

Btw on these Riga videos 15T is surprisingly silent especialy taking into account the far from perfect (read: bad) condition of tracks.

Btw on these Riga videos 15T is surprisingly silent especialy taking into account the far from perfect (read: bad) condition of tracks.
I got this comment to my question about this on the Riga PT thread:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=57895555&postcount=1228

I think you can get some bogie rattle on bad track from my experience but pretty well damped from impact on passengers.

The loud noise that makaveli6 mentioned could be the air conditioning (Europeans are probably not too accustomed to this). :)

(Europeans are probably not too accustomed to this). :)
Europeans are. We aren't. :ohno:

Europeans are. We aren't. :ohno:
So Klaus has finally taken CZ out of Europe. Congratulations! :lol:

That's not it (despite it would be the best news since 1989...). In terms of public transport, I don't find CZ developed enough to call itself "Europe". Air conditioning in buses, trams or whatever is something totally common in almost all neighboring countries. At least in Germany, Austria and, more and more, also in Poland (e.g. new buses in Wrocław).

That's not it (despite it would be the best news since 1989...).

:cripes:

What kind of Czech are you? Where should the Czech Republic be then?

I think the position just fits wonderfully...

??? I don't have any problems with geographical position... :nuts: Anyway, please, just try not to go too much off-topic.

I don't find CZ developed enough to call itself "Europe".

I definitely consider our public transports good enough to be comparable with others in Europe(maybe not the best but pretty solid).

Concerning air-conditioning... this is never ending topic, there are several reasons for or agains it:
+ trams are air-conditioned :) and u dont smell other people sweating so much, u dont sweat so much and so on...
+ you can consider us Europeans
- trams are more expensive
- trams are heavier = destroy more tracks
- air-conditioned tram consumes more energy(around 30%) = more expensive tickets
- might be unhealthy when used wrong

I dont doubt DPP would like to take air-conditioned 15T, but because of the lack of money, they just cannot afford it, without raising ticket prices. Might happen later received 15Ts will have it... just be optimistic

Even in Australia widespread use of aircon in PT vehicles is only relatively recent. There are still many trains and buses without. Most of the time you really don't need it there but having lived in Prague through summer 2009 I can understand there are times that you would feel the need. But does 2 months out of 12 justify the costs and downside that CN outlines above? There is a lot to be said for good forced ventilation. Skoda 14T has a ventilation system that will blow your clothes off but drivers never use it because they are sitting in air conditoned comfort themselves and don't realise their passengers are expiring behind them. T3s of course have wonderful communist air conditioning through big windows and roof hatches. :lol:

Ohh.. that must be the legendary ventilation of 13T/14T which i never had chance to experience :ohno:. I heard most ot the drivers don't even know that those trams have such a system...

I definitely consider our public transports good enough to be comparable with others in Europe(maybe not the best but pretty solid).

I also think that public transport in the Czech Republic is good. Regional railways and local roads are things that need major improvement, but public transport works well in the big Czech cities. The quality of the vehicles or the schedule is not a problem. The biggest problem I see is the lack of information resulting in confusion among less experienced passengers.



- air-conditioned tram consumes more energy(around 30%) = more expensive ticktets
- might be unhealthy when used wrong


The use of air-condition is really exaggerated in some places like supermarkets. That's not only in the Czech Republic, but also in countries like France or Italy. Sometimes the difference between outside and inside temperature is so big that people become ill and the energy consumption is irresponsible. It's like the swimming pools in CZ. People find it comfortable to have a clean pool, so they exaggerate and put 10 chlorine tablets a week into their pool which results in illness. :skull:

Ohh.. that must be the legendary ventilation of 13T/14T which i never had chance to experience :ohno:. I heard most ot the drivers don't even know that those trams have such a system...
So you think it's just a lot of hot air blowing from direction of Skoda then? :lol:
(I was told by them it exists so maybe they forgot to tell DPP!)



The use of air-condition is really exaggerated in some places like supermarkets. That's not only in the Czech Republic, but also in countries like France or Italy. Sometimes the difference between outside and inside temperature is so big that people become ill and the energy consumption is irresponsible.
One thing I find we get regularly in Australia is lots of colds and flus. I don't suffer from this problem in Europe. I think the air conditioning and constant walking in and out from different temperatures has a lot to do with it - so I agree with you Tramfreak.

Really hot westher itself is not such a problem, it's humidity, that's where you really need aircon. Last summer in Vienna was disgusting, just like eastern Australian seaboard in summer; Prague was just on the edge for me, getting uncomfortable, but for the Czechs I think it was much worse. Travelling in a T3 with everything open was OK, a 14T with Skoda's mythical hidden non-activated ventilation system was I admit getting uncomfortable. But nothing that some extra Česky pivo could not solve :cheers:

I got this comment to my question about this on the Riga PT thread:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=57895555&postcount=1228

I think you can get some bogie rattle on bad track from my experience but pretty well damped from impact on passengers.

The loud noise that makaveli6 mentioned could be the air conditioning (Europeans are probably not too accustomed to this). :)

My "silence" comment was directed at bogie noise of Riga tram which I find surprisingly low.

As for electric equipment noise, I can't comment on these new synchronous motors yet, but all Skoda traction equipment in operation in Prague to date (14T, metro, CityElefants) produces very annoying high tune noise in some particular stage of operation. The noise is not particularly loud as per dBs measured, but the tune is really very uncomfortable for a human ear which makes it subjectively much louder. Imho Skoda should work a bit on it and improve the sound of its traction motors and other electric stuff and not to let themselves comforted by the fact the noise is within prescribed margins. Impressions matter. Hire Leibach.

Re air conditioning.

It's really a question whether a total of like 10 days a year of useful operation are worth carrying the dead weight of an air-con unit all year long and resulting higher consumption and maintenance cost from bigger track impact of heavier vehicles, not to mention operational and maintenance costs of the air-con itself.

Imho the optimal solution is a "non-cooling air-con" ie the current fan system fitted with temperature sensors in the passengers dept and auto operation of fans according to temp measured. This would cure the main problem with the non-cooling fan system (14T, 15T) that the drivers forget to set fan intensity properly (driver's cabins have separate air-con).

As for electric equipment noise, I can't comment on these new synchronous motors yet, but all Skoda traction equipment in operation in Prague to date (14T, metro, CityElefants) produces very annoying high tune noise in some particular stage of operation. The noise is not particularly loud as per dBs measured, but the tune is really very uncomfortable for a human ear which makes it subjectively much louder. Imho Skoda should work a bit on it and improve the sound of its traction motors and other electric stuff and not to let themselves comforted by the fact the noise is within prescribed margins. Impressions matter. Hire Leibach.
Yes I did notice this very much on 14T but in my journey on 15T I didn't notice the same noise so perhaps they have addressed the problem already. You guys will be able to see in a few weeks I hope.

Re air conditioning.

It's really a question whether a total of like 10 days a year of useful operation are worth carrying the dead weight of an air-con unit all year long and resulting higher consumption and maintenance cost from bigger track impact of heavier vehicles, not to mention operational and maintenance costs of the air-con itself.

Imho the optimal solution is a "non-cooling air-con" ie the current fan system fitted with temperature sensors in the passengers dept and auto operation of fans according to temp measured. This would cure the main problem with the non-cooling fan system (14T, 15T) that the drivers forget to set fan intensity properly (driver's cabins have separate air-con).

I think that is an excellent suggestion, you should send it across to Skoda.

In 2009 it was more like 2 months than 10 days!!! But your general observation is correct. But don't forget in winter aircon does the job of heating (which presumably is the reason for it in Riga?). Unfortunately aircon is also one more thing to go wrong more often.

Interesting interior video on 15T in Riga:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOFJqtpM0nM&feature=player_embedded

(Sorry about 3 consecutive posts...)

Have you had many rear-end tram collisions in Prague (or other Czech cities)? That is trams running into the back of each other. I know there was a bad stack on Modrany line a few years ago but are there any minor occurences and does it happen often?

One similar collision happened this Thursday in Liberec. Some photos of the result can be found here (http://www.k-report.net/presmerovani/?prispevek=1806854).

Prahou jela prázdná tramvaj, řidič ji honil na kole a zkoušel naskočit (http://zpravy.idnes.cz/prahou-jela-prazdna-tramvaj-ridic-ji-honil-na-kole-a-zkousel-naskocit-1iv-/praha.asp?c=A100616_114932_praha_jw)

Zajímavé, mají v DPP kola připravené na takové případy? :)

I don't think even an Olympic cyclist could catch a Prague tram :lol:

I am surprised that a tram can even move without the controls being held by the driver (unless old trams don't have the safety device). Unless it is gravity (downhill).

unless old trams don't have the safety device
It was the 14T. The problem is that the driver stopped on the isolated section, i.e. lost power. So he set the tram to 'drive' (in order to release the brakes) and into the second stage of the emergency state, which bypasses pretty much everything. It's intended to be used when something goes very wrong with the 'computer stuff', and makes the tram go 20kph just on the hardware level. And as they've managed to push the tram into the powered section again, it did exactly what its intended to do... :)

unless old trams don't have the safety device
It was the 14T. The problem is that the driver stopped on the isolated section, i.e. lost power. So he set the tram to 'drive' (in order to release the brakes) and into the second stage of the emergency state, which bypasses pretty much everything. It's intended to be used when something goes very wrong with the 'computer stuff', and makes the tram go 20kph just on the hardware level. And as they've managed to push the tram into the powered section again, it did exactly what its intended to do... :)

According to Drážní Inspekce, the camera in the car showed that the driver managed to get on the tram and stop it (as opposed to what media said - that he wasn't fast enough). However he stopped it when the power was already off and the tram was slowing down. After the incident he had to be transported to the Motol hospital because of a heart attack, the hospital confirmed that they are still taking care of him there.

I'm not sure if it's actually :lol: or :ohno: or :mad: or :cry: but they could make a comedy based on this incident, that's sure :)

More information here (http://zpravy.idnes.cz/splasenou-tramvaj-dohnal-sam-ridic-po-infarktu-zustava-v-nemocnici-1fq-/praha.asp?c=A100617_145509_praha_zep)

Crikey!

But the article says he could get 1-3 years jail - that would really give him a heart attack!

It is certainly like Keystone Cops. Not only how many men does it take to push a 40 tonne tram (Guiness Book of Records?) but this guy chases it on a bicycle and boards it like an attacking indian jumping a train from his horse in a wild west movie. He will become a folk hero. Many funny Czech movies made on a lesser plot than this :lol:

I've read on iDnes that driver was in his fifties, pretty good shape for that age :)

There was similar case in Germany, but afaik it was train without driver :)

video of 15T inside the driver cab
UiWt4Q6k5s0

nice video... can anyone eplain what are Norwegians doing inside of 15T?? Is Skoda considering participation in some tender in Norway??

Probably some kind of educational excursion.

Anyone have any figures for passenger km per annum and vehicle km per annum for Prague trams? I know they're in reports (city council?) but I haven't been able to dig deep enough.

And has any 15T reached its kilometres yet to enable it to enter public service - or do they all have to do equivalent of 25 x around Australia first? :lol:

Vehicle km: 47.317.000
Only place km are in reports, not passenger km: 5.788.688.000

15T: No. They have to do 5.000km "without category C fault" (i.e. serious and/or repeated fault) without passengers, then 15.000 with passengers.

Only place km are in reports, not passenger km: 5.788.688.000

Thanks. What does this ^^ figure refer to then?

Places offered to passengers in an average tram * kms run by the trams. Therefore, if we divide it by the vehicle kms, we get that an average tram in Prague can carry 122 passengers (and some bits http://tram-forum.prazsketramvaje.cz/images/smilies/devilsmokin.gif).

(and some bits http://tram-forum.prazsketramvaje.cz/images/smilies/devilsmokin.gif).
Dogs in bags :)

So I will work out if it's possible to deduce passenger km from this (@ 380 mill pass per annum which is the last figure I have).....

So I will work out if it's possible to deduce passenger km from this (@ 380 mill pass per annum which is the last figure I have).....

The annual passenger-km would be the place-km if the trams were totally occupied for a whole year, which is absolutely unlikely. You cannot get the product from the pass, cuz you do not know how many kilometers each passanger has travelled averagely.

^^
Yes I figured that out thanks! It puzzles me that they do not use pass km which is widely used internationally as a comparative figure.

Don't worry about it. Since this thread was created a year and a half ago the tram in question has been moved to Washington. I have my own pictures of it :)

Don't worry about it. Since this thread was created a year and a half ago the tram in question has been moved to Washington. I have my own pictures of it :)

Bummer :bash:
It looks preety cool to have this in Czech =(
__________________
http://2.s04.flagcounter.com/count/3DIf/bg=FFFFFF/txt=FFFFFF/border=FFFFFF/columns=1/maxflags=1/viewers=3/labels=0/.jpg

Amazing, their are going to start operation of 15T with passangers on the 5th October. After more than one year being tested in Prague.
http://praha.idnes.cz/nova-tramvaj-skoda-15t-vyjede-v-utery-poprve-s-cestujicimi-pmh-/praha-zpravy.asp?c=A101001_162323_praha-zpravy_ab
At the end of the year there should be 50 15T trams in Prague, which is hardly believable

LOL after one year it is an anticlimax, we are now bored. :lol:

I look forward to impressions of the ride from forum members. :)

Nothing to do with local elections by any chance? :ohno:

Nothing to do with local elections by any chance? :ohno:

I'm sure not at all :lol:

Quite a lot of 15Ts are already completed and stored at Škoda factory. But I doubt there's 50 of them.

Some trolleybus news after a while. Škoda is going to manufacture 30 26Tr trolleybuses (Solaris 12 chassis) for Sofia.
Škoda 26Tr Solaris in Sofia
http://gtsofia.info/galerypics/Uploaded/Fantomas/391/00_00_0000/1603_1281977531.JPG
http://gtsofia.info/galerypics/Uploaded/Repcho/39/25_08_10/Picture11_003_resize_1282768436.jpg
http://forum.gtsofia.info/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=957.0;attach=47745;image
http://forum.gtsofia.info/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=957.0;attach=47737;image
Generations
http://i983.photobucket.com/albums/ae317/NiGhtPiSH/P8025598.jpg

More believable information in the news today: 30 15Ts in Prague during the next 6 months.
Article (http://www.novinky.cz/ekonomika/213318-nova-tramvaj-forcity-svezla-v-praze-prvni-cestujici.html) (in Czech) about first test ride with passengers including a video (with annoying commercial first, of course).

So good luck our new tram :)

First impressions which I've read (not mine):

Very quiet and steady ride and acceleration, faster OIS (onboard information system). Practically the only complain is about a noisy doors when they're closing.

some vids:

WPcjKcBj8oA

WxjfFocPwHs

R3dkSNidwHE

and pictures:

http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/3333/img4980t.jpg

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/4525/img4987m.jpg

http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/1327/img5000y.jpg

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/139/img5030v.jpg

So thank you earthbound, now finally we can have a drink! :cheers:

No comment on wooden seats? I know the public voted for it but surely not all Czechs have square backsides with inbuilt padding? :lol:

Any impressions on ride quality, noise and cornering would be appreciated. Is the map on OIS operating and linked to GPS? ( - edit: I can see from the videos that it is not)

So is it running on 7 and 24 only and if so how many trams are available on these services - that is, how frequently can one expect a 15T to turn up? (I have to inform my Australian tram spy who is "on the ground" in Europe at present so he can try!)

And last question - can it operate on all Prague routes yet or are there still clearance problems on some routes?

Congratulations guys, second place to Latvia is not too bad. :lol:

No comment on wooden seats?Wooden seats have already been "tested on humans" on newer KT8 reconstructions. I can live with them - it's a tram, not a lounge, and if one can sit on a bench in a park, there's no reason why it should be unbearable here.
Besides, I'm standing most of the time (enjoying while I can). :)

So is it running on 7 and 24Initial ride as 24 was only an official ceremony, since then till weekend it should run on line 7, then on line 18.

how many trams are available on these servicesOne. It carries passengers, but remember that it still is part of type validation trials.

And last question - can it operate on all Prague routes yet or are there still clearance problems on some routes?Its banned from some stretches, though I don't know whether it's because of clearance or state of the track (personally I see the second reason as more likely).

There was a newspaper article that mentioned the stretches, where the 15T is not allowed.
If I remember correctly, it is Vinohradska street near Muzeum (track too old). Těšnov, the underpass under magistrala when arriving from Hlavkuv brudge (I would say clearance problems, bud the tracks on Hlavkuv most aren't good as well) and somewhere near Střelničná in Kobylisy in the north of Prague.

Initial ride as 24 was only an official ceremony, since then till weekend it should run on line 7, then on line 18.

One. It carries passengers, but remember that it still is part of type validation trials.


Thank you Bobek_Azbest. So will it stay on 18 for a while do you think or are they going to rotate it around other lines?

If 9201 is doing this job what are 9200 and 9207 doing? Are there any other 15Ts in Prague yet?

Sch1: Zenklova.

historyworks: I think it will stick to line 18 till the elections (October 15th-16th), then it's anybody's guess...
9200 as pre-production sample is collecting dust in Plzeň, 9207 is undergoing various tests for manufacturer (non-powered first bogie). No, just the two.

No comment on wooden seats? I know the public voted for it but surely not all Czechs have square backsides with inbuilt padding? :lol:

:) not mentioning this tram looks plain awful... love my t3 classic... (or my vespa) :)

:) not mentioning this tram looks plain awful... love my t3 classic... (or my vespa) :)
Can you carry 300 people on a Vespa? Amazing! :lol:

Can you carry 300 people on a Vespa? Amazing! :lol:

:) actuallly, friend of mine drove the other day. she said the wooden seats look funny and are comfier then they look. also she complained about less space in this tram...

A lot of optimism here:


http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-07-02/skoda-transportation-may-win-vehicle-orders-worth-1-billion-in-2010.html

Skoda Transportation May Win Vehicle Orders Worth $1 Billion in 2010
By Lenka Ponikelska - Jul 2, 2010 10:36 PM ET

Skoda Transportation AS and Skoda Vagonka AS, the largest Czech producer of rail vehicles, may win 21 billion koruna ($1 billion) in orders this year for transport machinery if it wins tenders in as many as 11 countries such as Finland, Ukraine, Russia or Italy.

“We believe it’s feasible,” sales director Jaromir Jelinek said in an interview today in the company’s headquarters in Pilsen, southwest of the capital Prague. “Most orders are likely to come in the second half of the year as there were local problems with financing some tenders.”

Skoda, which has invested as much as 4.2 billion koruna in the last three years into research and development of new products, is developing new types of carriages that use so-called supercapacitors that speed stored energy to the motor when accelerating and also the three-system 109E locomotive with a maximum speed of 200 kilometers per hour. Skoda is already taking part in a tender for trams in Rostock, Germany that would employ the equipment.

Skoda is also taking part in tenders this year to deliver vehicles to cities and railways in the Czech Republic, Germany, Italy, Slovakia, Hungary, Finland, Latvia, Serbia, Lithuania, Russia, Ukraine, and other countries, Jelinek said.

The company that supplied tramcars to Portland, Oregon and Tacoma, Washington, is also taking part in a tender to supply metro carriages next year to St. Petersburg in Russia. The company plans to offer the new type of metro carriage for St. Petersburg in tenders in Prague, Warszawa and Sofia.

Skoda, which makes around 50 percent of its earnings in the Czech Republic and has projects in Europe, is monitoring overseas markets like Canada, the U.S., Korea or Vietnam to diversify its revenue stream, the executive said.

Skoda Transportation and Skoda Vagonka’s order backlog was worth 44 billion koruna at the end of 2009. The company received a record 21 billion koruna in new orders last year, according to Jelinek.

Skoda Transportation and Skoda Vagonka is a part of Skoda Investment AS, which sold Skoda Power AS, a maker of power and nuclear plant equipment, to Doosan Heavy Industries & Construction Co. in September for 451.6 million euros ($656 million).

Skoda Investment, which is unrelated to Volkswagen AG’s Skoda Auto, is owned by the investment fund Appian Group. It had revenue of 13.6 billion koruna in 2009.

To contact the reporter on this story: Lenka Ponikelska in Prague lponikelska1@bloomberg.net.


Any development of interest in 15T in Chemnitz?

It would be interesting if they win all this tenders, considering they are quite busy producing all trams for Prague and Riga now...
However, good luck to them.

http://phototrans.eu/images/photos/big/16/444238.jpg

Does anybody know if 9201 will still be on line 18 for the rest of this month?

Presumably yes. :)

A 2xKT8D5 train, 60 meters long, during maintenance works in the area of I.P.Pavlova
6ffjacE2R6A

Manilla metro on streets of Prague!

Does X number indicate a metro-replacement service?

Manilla metro on streets of Prague!

Does X number indicate a metro-replacement service?

Not exactly, tram or bus lines replacing metro service are called X-A, X-B or X-C. When a bus line replaces a tram service, it is called X-26 for example. This situation is exceptional because the X line replaces many other tram lines on a certain route.

2xKT8Ds were used in Ďáblice few years ago. So this (IPP-Karlovo náměstí) is not the first occasion.

Manilla metro on streets of Prague!Here (http://www.prazsketramvaje.cz/view.php?cisloclanku=2006041014) you go.

Test rides of 15T required for the type approval are completed.

Test rides of 15T required for the type approval are completed.
How are you guys finding your new 15T now that you have rides? Does it live up to expectations, how does it compare to 14T and others?

I don't think the one tram is in operation now in Prague so I personally haven't tried a ride so far.

Well, it's a tram. :)
It's quiet, ride is OK and I don't mind the wooden seats at all, so fine by me. Maybe a bit more space for baby prams and/or wheelchairs would be useful.

Anyway since completing the test rides the 15Ts don't run, 9201 was partially disassembled and checked for wear. And while two new were already delivered, they won't appear in service till type is approved by the rail authority. Personally I don't think it will be before the end of the year.

Well, it's a tram. :)

What you mean after 2 or 3 years of excited build-up all we end up with is just a tram! :lol:

Come on, try harder guys. :)

(I thought approval was recently issued?)

Well, I looked really carefully, and no, it's not a submarine or a space shuttle, still just a tram. :D I just don't get excited that easy. ;)

The test rides are just necessary for approval, not sufficient. It's a bureaucratic process after all. But maybe they'll surprise me and we'll get some Christmas presents. :)

I saw it several times during tests and few shots on youtube as well, my complaint is it's quite noisy in curves, something like hardware store on wheels. I was expecting much quiet running. I know it has pivoting bogies which is good for curvy track since it doesn't ruin it as much but because of that it's makes more noise than trams with fixed bogies, probably.

Well, I looked really carefully, and no, it's not a submarine or a space shuttle,
Well that disastrous Boeing tram in USA I think they thought they were designing a space shuttle!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Standard_Light_Rail_Vehicle

I saw it several times during tests and few shots on youtube as well, my complaint is it's quite noisy in curves, something like hardware store on wheels. I was expecting much quiet running. I know it has pivoting bogies which is good for curvy track since it doesn't ruin it as much but because of that it's makes more noise than trams with fixed bogies, probably.

Should be the opposite. You sure it's not the condition of the track that's causing the noise (especially points)? Most Youtube footage I've seen it's pretty quiet except on points in some Prague intersections.

I need to know what is the price for Skoda 15T tram, sell price.
please.

I need to know what is the price for Skoda 15T tram, sell price.
please.
Hi Tramwayman. You want official price, or price SCF Czech forum can get you on black market? You get tax exemption if you are buying it for your city but if for your private use you have to pay tax. :lol:

According to this, EURO 2.3 - 2.6 million per unit (Prague and Riga orders):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0koda_15_T

Yes, one piece for Prague aprox 60 million Kč or € 2,4 million, for Riga it's aprox € 2.6 million per tram.

I saw it several times during tests and few shots on youtube as well, my complaint is it's quite noisy in curves, something like hardware store on wheels. I was expecting much quiet running. I know it has pivoting bogies which is good for curvy track since it doesn't ruin it as much but because of that it's makes more noise than trams with fixed bogies, probably.

Actually the very opposite should be the case and in my opinion it really is.

Judging by my 2 rides, from all Prague's trams this one is the least noisy and by far /it's really not advisable to make assumptions about noise based on cell phone video captures posted on youtube/.

15t is quiet on straight track, in curves and on switches it sounds like this.
VIqxjKXhiH4

nothing spectacular imo.

As I said, the problem of these cell phone captures is they don't provide accurate sound rendition. In reality you won't hear most of the squeaks on the video (at least I have not).

Nice winter video from Riga, I hope we will get few in the Spring finally since I haven't be inside yet!
axIe0TLejiI

This is very unofficial: type approval papers for 15T have been issued.

^^ dobré info, tohle je ze dneška na tramforum
Dne 15.1.2011 bude zahájen provoz s cestujícími na l. 18, následovat bude linka 7 a poté linka 19. Do 31.3. bude 25 vozů, do konce roku 50, všechny budou umístěny ve vozovně Pankrác.

Currently there are six 15T in Prague, till the end of March there should be some 25 of them.
Regular service should start next Saturday 5.2. so I hope I finally take a ride

http://www.k-report.net/discus/nahledy/527060.jpg

Brno got 5 new 13T trams last week, with better interior disposition.
FGDTybP83XE

Aneb vracíme se k Vektře. Nojo, kdyby Praha netrvala na posvátné krávě v podobě jednoho schodu (navíc výšky vzbuzující reminiscenci na Ikarus)...

Nový termín výjezdu 15T je nadcházející sobota.

ale ta 1,5 sedadla jsou taky zajímavá...
http://www.bmhd.cz/aktuality/img/2010/2010-12-08-13t-1920i.jpg

^^
Which tram is that?

So the seats on the left are for those who like to cuddle each other and the seats on the right for those who don't? :lol:

Those are the so called 1,5 seats for oversized passengers.

Which tram is that?

it's 13t for Brno with new - better - interior
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Škoda_13_T

Those are the so called 1,5 seats for oversized passengers.

But if you think they're a unique example of human stupidity, you're wrong :)

You can see such seats in the front part of many Dutch buses. That's because the front part is for elderly people and the rest is for students/immigrants (I fully represent the second group :D). It sucks during rush hour, but for the rest it perfectly suits the types of passengers. Of course it is nonsense to have those seats in Czech trams.

I have seen them in Bombardier trams. I thought they were just a lame effort to disguise the bogie boxes that would otherwise stick out into the aisle and trip people. The Skoda ones seem to be serving the same purpose.

So this version of 13T has seats facing forwards in high sections instead of sideways?

Exactly. Well, not exactly, seats are both forward and back facing, but you got the picture.

Praha tramvajová
fotografie Prahy z do před metrem (60. - 80. léta), autor neznámý (přišlo mailem)

Pěkné fotoalbum s historickými fotkami
http://jack-al.rajce.idnes.cz/Praha_tramvajova/

Tramvaje v Resslově 1971
http://img4.rajce.idnes.cz/d0406/1/1947/1947975_4f4556417f2e64185ca88ba3b0c56294/images/resslova_1971.jpg

Muzeum bez magistrály
http://img4.rajce.idnes.cz/d0406/1/1947/1947975_4f4556417f2e64185ca88ba3b0c56294/images/okolo_narodniho_musea.jpg.
http://skoda1202.predseda.com/jpeg/metro_1202.jpg

nice
I hope that means you have just ridden in a 15T! :lol:

Praha tramvajová
fotografie Prahy z do před metrem (60. - 80. léta), autor neznámý (přišlo mailem)

Pěkné fotoalbum s historickými fotkami
http://jack-al.rajce.idnes.cz/Praha_tramvajova/

Tramvaje v Resslově 1971

Muzeum bez magistrály


Fab photos. I love the visual metaphor that under Communism everything is grey and bleak and suddenly after 1990 Prague turns to colour! :lol:
(In Australia such photos are from the 1930s, not the 1970s.)

Ah, to get the trams past Hl.N again instead of that stupid Magistrala! My wife remembers travelling in the older tram in the second photo.

Ah, to get the trams past Hl.N again instead of that stupid Magistrala! My wife remembers travelling in the older tram in the second photo.

That's nice :). Yeah magistrala sucks I hope they will remove it completely and won't built that costly tunnel instead.

BTW we had some color too back than but it was rather rare :)
http://img4.rajce.idnes.cz/d0406/1/1947/1947975_4f4556417f2e64185ca88ba3b0c56294/images/vaclavak_4.jpg

And: today was Škoda 15T hands-on premiere in Prague! Will add some photos later.

Hello people!

I wanted to ask about Skoda 15T.

As of now are these model of trams have any problem in Prague?
Are they still having any type of problems?

And if they are what are the problems?

As you can read underneath, regular operation of 15T's started as of today. Do you really expect any sort of relevant information? ;)

Well they've been tsting this model for about 2,5 years so it would be really stupid not to start regular service now.

Cause the tramcar model is already considered old.

It first appeared somewhere in september of 2008 and is entering service in February 2011 quite funny.


Are the bogie shields still cracking on junctions?

Radio Tbilisi?. Bogie shields were not cracking but falling down and not on junctions but due to frozen snow along tracks because snow plough trams currently in use in Prague are not wide enough to make room 15t requires for its wider bogies. In fact it was pretty inevitable once someone decided to try what happens if the tram has to negotiate smaller loading gauge than it requires.

I really hear very well that bogie shields make ckraking annoying sound when negotiating junctions because they are fixed on bogies and bogies are movable part of tram so they will always make this annoying sound.

Give up, guys, YouTube experience is more accurate than an actual ride :lol:

Pěkný sestřih 15T z roku 2010
eq2g6wjw1IU

I really hear very well that bogie shields make ckraking annoying sound when negotiating junctions because they are fixed on bogies and bogies are movable part of tram so they will always make this annoying sound.

I will tell you as soon as I meet it.

Tak jsem se dnes poprvé projel. Jelikož asi jezdí zatím asi jen jedna 18T s cestujícími, tak mi trvalo hodinu jí vystopovat, potkal jsem jí před Hradčanskou, takže jsem musel do metra na A, pak přestup na Muzeu - Pražského povstání a ve Vozovně Pankrác na mě už čekala :). Moje subjektivní pocity jsou, že projížďka byla super a myslim že pro Prahu je to důstojná tramvaj, oproti 14T je interiér úplně jinde. Ty úzký průchody nad podvozky, kterejch jsem se vždycky bál, tak myslim že zbytečně, je to prostorný dost, lidi nemají vůbec problém procházet skrz celou tramvaj, přišlo mi to subjektivně o dost prostornější než starý kloubový Tatry. Prostě je radost se s ní svézt, fakt jsem byl nadšenej. Má to dynamiku, je cítit jak to táhne, podvozky a jízda velmi příjemná. Plocha otvíranejch dveří je obrovská, myslim že i to mluví proti klimatizaci. Na zastávce oproti T3 vymění mnohem víc vzduchu. Otázka jak to bude v létě, může se z toho stát skleník. Skla jsou možná nějak pokovený, ale zkušenost z 14T je, že to moc nepomůže. Možná by mohla být výhoda ta dveřní plocha, protože na zastávkách to udělá solidní průvan, oproti 14T. Prostě je to kus, všichni se po ní otáčejí a interiér je ještě lepší než exteriér. Doufám že jich bude rychle přibývat, abych se brzo zase svezl.

Pár fotek a videí, videa připojím později.
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/6285/sam0114m.jpg.
http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/6369/sam0121m.jpg.
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/204/sam0118m.jpg.
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/2429/sam0119m.jpg

tak ty videa
bTXdID-aHRY.
_vxZTY52ppk

ještě co se týká sedaček, sice tvrdší, ale myslím že účelné. Celkově ten interiér je takový decentně luxusní, žádné výstřelky, jednoduché tvary plnící účel, prostě čistá moderna jak má být.

Zajímavé údaje o váze z tramfóra

model - prázdná / plně obsazená

T3SU 15810/27150 kg
T3M 16960/28300 kg
T3RP 17260/28460 kg
T6 20630/32670 kg
T3RPLF 21500/33470 kg
RT6 32850/47900 kg
KT8 38000/64600 kg
14T 41990/61770 kg
KT8N2 42000/66610 kg
15T 43800 kg / 63700 kg

Plocha otvíranejch dveří je obrovská, myslim že i to mluví proti klimatizaci. Na zastávce oproti T3 vymění mnohem víc vzduchu. Otázka jak to bude v létě, může se z toho stát skleník. Skla jsou možná nějak pokovený, ale zkušenost z 14T je, že to moc nepomůže. Možná by mohla být výhoda ta dveřní plocha, protože na zastávkách to udělá solidní průvan, oproti 14T.mno na PrT-kach sa objavila fama, ze buduce objednavky 15T maju byt aj s klimatizaciou celeho vozidla, vymenou za nehnany prvy podvozok (pre zachovanie ceny) :)

Taky jsem to dneska četl, jestli je to pravda nevim, já osobně bych klimu oželel. Když jsem tim jel tak se mi fakt zdálo, že na zastávce je výměna vzduchu hodně velká, úplně tam začalo protahovat, takže v létě to chlazení si myslim bude neúčinný čili drahý na provoz. Riga klimu má tak by se měli poučit u nich jak to přes léto fungovalo.

Tak ono nejde o to, aby v té tramvaji bylo 20, ale spíš aby tam nebylo 40. To pak luftování na zastávkách a klimatizace vlastně bojují za společnou věc. :) Stejně je kouzelné, jak se kupuje tramvaj s nějakými požadavky na adhezní procenta a nápravové tlaky, a pak (jestli je to ovšem pravda) se v průběhu dodávek dojde k něčemu drobet jinému - ona ta klimatizace taky bude něco vážit. Další otázka je, co by na to řekly třeba měnírny.

Ty hmotnosti jsou jasné:
1) zatímco dřív stačilo z jeklů svařit rovný rám a na něj se porůznu nabastlil zbytek, dneska ty NP konstrukce vyžadujou různé za/vylomeniny +
2) máme tu nějaké bezpečnostní požadavky na pevnost vozidel.
Stačí se podívat, jak za posledních 50 let ztloustla auta.

To pak luftování na zastávkách a klimatizace vlastně bojují za společnou věc. :)

To sice možná ano, ale otevírání dveří té klimatizaci srazí účinnost, jde o to o kolik. Je to jako otevírat pořád dveře do ledničky. Pokud bude chladit na 30°C tak je fakt, že gradient oproti vnější teplotě vzduchu bude malý, takže to moc vadit nebude - asi tam jde opravdu jen o to redukovat skleníkový efekt v interiéru.
Horší je to v zimě, kdy je rozdíl teplot vnitřku a vnějšku velký, seděl jsem u dveří a docela mě ofouklo, jak se všechny ty dveře otevřely. Ale je fakt, že je to městská tramvaj, nikoliv pendolino nebo noclehárna :). Lepší studený a čerstvý než teplý a ... v zimě se tam aspoň nebude tak dobře spát.

Jinak ta změna parametrů objednávky za jízdy, pokud by to byla pravda, mi přijde jako neuvěřitelný amatérismus a diletantství. Pokud za tím není ještě něco horšího...

Ty hmotnosti jsou jasné:
1) zatímco dřív stačilo z jeklů svařit rovný rám a na něj se porůznu nabastlil zbytek, dneska ty NP konstrukce vyžadujou různé za/vylomeniny +
2) máme tu nějaké bezpečnostní požadavky na pevnost vozidel.
Stačí se podívat, jak za posledních 50 let ztloustla auta.

Asi ano, jen je škoda že je zase o něco těžší než 14T. Takhle na první pohled mi přišla subtilnější.

14T je o 5 m kratší a má o podvozek méně, čili jak z hlediska váhy/m délky, tak z hlediska nápravových tlaků je na tom 15T výrazně lépe. 15T je dokonce v obou parametrech srovnatelná s částečně NP variantami o generaci(e) starších vozidel jako T3RPLF (wana) nebo KT8N2, což je myslím úspěch.

14T o 5m kratší není, délkově jsou 14T a 15T v podstatě shodné ~31m, s podvozkem je to pravda, v tom může být ten rozdíl. Další věc ale je, jak se dá těmto parametrům věřit, u 14T na tramforu psal 42t, na wikipedii 38t... ale asi budou obě váhově srovnatelné s tím, že 14T má o podvozek a pár motorů méně a proto je o pár tun lehčí.


Jinak další 'potěšující' článek:
Nejvíce závad ze všech tramvají, které jsou dosud v hlavním městě v provozu, má typ 14T. Ten už po městě nějakou dobu jezdí a od února se na koleje dostal jeho nástupce – model 15T. Podle opozice v něm Pražané dostávají dopravní prostředek ještě nespolehlivější.

Každé ze šestnácti kol soupravy je totiž poháněno vlastním motorem. Porucha jednoho z motorů vyřadí z provozu celou soupravu. „Vypadá to, že tramvaj 15T tu poruchovost ještě předčí,“ řekl šéf zastupitelského klubu TOP 09 Tomáš Hudeček.

Podle něj už si závady všimli i v dopravním podniku. „Ředitel DP v další dodávce tramvají požaduje, aby přední náprava motory neměla, protože v případě jakékoli kolize s autem dochází k poškození motoru a vyřazení z provozu,“ řekl Hudeček.
....
Praha také odebírá nových souprav více, než je nutné. Plán výměny tramvají počítá s tím, že město ročně obmění dvacet souprav. Do roku 2018 však Praha musí odkoupit 250 nových vozů, tedy přes třicet ročně.

Stejně jako v případě tunelu Blanka i dodávka nových tramvají se Praze prodraží. O navýšení ceny ze sedmnácti na dvacet miliard už informovala i dozorčí rada DP. A smlouva je i v tomto případě nevypověditelná. „Praha je vytunelovaná smlouvami, které musíme plnit,“ řekl Hudeček.
http://domaci.ihned.cz/c1-50242520-staci-pet-centimetru-snehu-a-nejnovejsi-tramvaj-nepojede-zlobi-se-top-09

PRAGUE TRAM SYSTEM WITH ALL THE EXISTING PLANS


PEOPLE WHO KNOW MUCH MORE PLEASE LET'S DISCUSS ALL THE PLANED LINES ARE THEY REAL OR JUST PAPERWORK
http://transphoto.ru/photo/03/77/52/377524.jpg

^ great map, thanks. Have you got link to the original, apparently it's progressive jpeg and some areas are blurry. I will then convert it into png with indexed colors which will save some space, this is too huge.

It's on transphoto site world's best transport database site.

http://transphoto.ru/photo/377524/

Doesn't this count as spam?

It's on transphoto site world's best transport database site.

http://transphoto.ru/photo/377524/

thats not original, there are blurred areas on the photo

thats not original, there are blurred areas on the photo

Yes it is original the person made the map like this himself the blurred areas are not needed that's why they are blurred.

OK, I understand, thanks.

PEOPLE WHO KNOW MUCH MORE PLEASE LET'S DISCUSS ALL THE PLANED LINES ARE THEY REAL OR JUST PAPERWORK


It's the study of new city plan for the city

Here is the resized pic.
http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/964/tram377524a.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/812/tram377524a.png/)

first day of 15T operation with passangers - october 2010
TXhqJSBKChI

Yes I understand but are any of this proposed lines confirmed?
except the one on Podbaba little extension.

It's just planned, still could be changed.

Schema 15T, pokud tu jeste nebylo
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/9528/15ttypak.gif

Hmm I thought 15T is more similar to Wrocław's 16T, now I see it has not only different look but different interior and placing of seats either.

15T is completely different tramcar from 16T. Similar to 16T is Prague's 14T.
http://prazsketramvaje.cz/obrazky/vozyosobni/9111-139.jpg

Which is the most hilly street in Prague?
Trojska? and what's the maximum gradient? 8,0%?

I read that Skoda 15T and 14T can go up to 8,5% of gradient

What are limits for Tatra trams?

^^ it's in this thread http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=22024972&postcount=44
About the limits for trams, I don't know.

Tatras are obviously the same otherwise they wouldn't operate all routes. I think 8.5% is DPP specification.

Isn't Brucelska steeper then Trojska????

^^ You mean Bělehradská? Because there are no tram tracks in Bruselská. Bělehradská is steep on some parts but most probably less than Trojská.

Yes I meant Bělehradská!

So:

Torjska
Bělehradská
Chotkova

are the steepest?

Boy if the Trojska is the steepest with it's 8,1 %

then Prague is by far from Tbilisi.

Here Lotkini mountain which was served by tram had gradient of 11,2 %
Trams ran there from 1975-2001 but for now Tbilisi has no trams at all.

Still we have Petřín funicular with 29.5% :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petřín_funicular

http://www.portalymest.cz/obrazky/lanova-draha-na-petrin-2.jpg

15T Peak hour :) 3 are running with passangers and more are being tested
http://www.k-report.net/discus/nahledy/538496.jpg
http://www.k-report.net/discus/messages/48/513.html?1298845567

Konečně se blýská na časy. Na druhou stranu se mi líbílo, když po síti jezdila jenom 9200, přišlo mi, že v provozu působí až predátorsky.

^^ Viete niekto koľko ich bude v Prahe keď prídem v Júly/Auguste? Úžasné. :cheers:

Řekl bych tak 30.

Řekl bych tak 30.

Super. A prioritne na ktoré linky sa nasadzujú/budú nasadzovať?

Vzhladom k stavu trati je dolezitejsia otazka, na ktore linky sa *mozu* nasadzovat :) Aktualne su medzi dovolenymi, vypravovanymi z voz. Pankrac, tusim 7, 18 a 19. V sucasnosti ma 15T vyhradene 3 poradia na linke 18, teda s cestujucimi jazdi vylucne tam. Ale do leta sa to istotne rozsiri.

Říct to takhle dopředu je vysloveně věštění z koule. Vypravení se průběžně mění, stejně jako seznam zakázaných úseků (teď po zimě značně rozšířený kvůli různým vystouplým panelům apod., ale to se snad zase opraví). Navíc v létě bude (jako obvykle) spousta výluk, což s linkovým vedením i vypravením zamíchá ještě víc. Řešení:
1) před cestou se podívat na aktuálně platná data vypravení na prazsketramvaje.cz
2) stoupnout si na nějakou rušnou tramvajovou křižovatku (Karlovo, Palackého nám. apod.) a ono to časem přijede. :)

2) stoupnout si na nějakou rušnou tramvajovou křižovatku (Karlovo, Palackého nám. apod.) a ono to časem přijede. :)
Very scientific method (as long as you don't have an appointment to attend)! :lol:

Obviously the Mayor of Prague has been reading my comments on SCF!

http://www.radio.cz/en/news#4

Prague mayor discusses changes to city’s central motorway…

Prague Mayor Bohuslav Svoboda addressed ideas for re-conceiving the busy motorway that runs directly through central Prague, the north-south “magistrála”. Speaking at a city planning conference called Vision for Prague 2010 – 2014, Mr Svoboda dismissed the idea of running the motorway through a tunnel at Wenceslas Square, saying there was no point in discussing plans for the central motorway until the exterior bypass had been completed. He also said it would be a problem to charge tolls on the road until an interior bypass had been built, as it would merely penalise people for something they could not avoid.
… considers removal of Federal Assembly building.

Plan for the potential renovation of Wenceslas Square were also discussed, including one initiative to tear down the historic Federal Assembly building. Mayor Svoboda said that removing the structure to fully expose the old Produce Exchange building within it was something that could be considered and that has been discussed with the Ministry of Culture, which declared it a protected cultural monument in 2000. The aesthetics of the 1974 modernist building has long been a topic of controversy, between experts who consider it an excellent work of architecture and locals who consider it an eyesore. Mr Svoboda said that specialists would have the final word in any renovation of the square and that he was not yet inclined towards any one particular plan.

Regarding the magistrala I fully agree with him, the tunnel would conservate the motorway there for ever.
Regarding the building, the extension from the 60's is masterpiece and is protected monument and is there to stay, this mayor is apparently not expert on the topic.
However none of these is related to trams, we are in a wrong thread.

My apologies, I meant to post that on the Prague city ring thread. :ohno:

But in relation to trams in that scheme, I am interested in what new route is envisaged by running trams from Vinohradska to Vaclav square. Is there any suggestion of where such a route will go and what are its termini?

Vzhladom k stavu trati je dolezitejsia otazka, na ktore linky sa *mozu* nasadzovat :) Aktualne su medzi dovolenymi, vypravovanymi z voz. Pankrac, tusim 7, 18 a 19. V sucasnosti ma 15T vyhradene 3 poradia na linke 18, teda s cestujucimi jazdi vylucne tam. Ale do leta sa to istotne rozsiri.

18, jedna z liniek ktoré keď som v Prahe používam najviac. :cheers:

two generations
http://foto-aktualne.mhdcr.biz/albums/userpics/10001/9217%2B9152.JPG
http://foto-aktualne.mhdcr.biz/displayimage.php?pos=-2034

Route 18 is really the most representative one for 15T :) One of the photos I took yesterday:

http://www.k-report.net/discus/nahledy/542173.jpg

^ hezké, jsem nevěděl že jsi taky fotič a dokonce v Praze :)

Článek o 15T, prý je tam 169 konstrukčních změn od prototypu
http://prazsky.denik.cz/zpravy_region/devet-tisic-hodin-prace-a-tramvaj-m20110307.html

Statutární město Olomouc zahájilo územní řízení o umístění stavby Tramvajové tratě tržnice - Trnkova (http://www.olomouc.eu/edeska/prispevky/uploads/19167.doc) (soubor ve formátu .doc)

Je to jeden z mnoha kroků, které už snad jistě vedou k zahájení stavby I. etapy dlouho očekávané trati na sídliště Nové Sady a Povel.
:banana:

...prý je tam 169 konstrukčních změn od prototypu

(video) A tady, a tady, a tady (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlt4YS0CJSQ&t=78)... :D

Letošní výlukové orgie v Praze by mohly vypadat takto:
30.4.-10.5. oblouk Bubenské nábřeží/Komunardů - californien(?!)
1.5.-1.7. Jugoslávských partyzánů
1.6.-31.8. Letenské náměstí (californien) - Špejchar
1.7.-1.9. Národní divadlo - nám. Jana Palacha
1.7.-1.9. Výtoň - Sídliště Modřany
1.9.-22.10. Nádraží Braník - Sídliště Modřany
1.9.-30.9. Národní divadlo - Myslíkova
22.10.-7.11. Otakarova - Táborská (provoz tram vyloučen Otakarova - Spořilov / Vozovna Pankrác)

edit: ještě se má rekonstruovat křižovatka na Floře, ale ta z toho materiálu asi nějak vypadla.

a very nice document about T3 trams from czech television: Retro (http://www.ceskatelevize.cz/porady/10176269182-retro/211411000360014/video/) :)

Vyvěste fangle, nemožné se možná stane skutečností:
Pražanům nebude v tramvajích vedro, ve vozech bude klimatizace (http://praha.idnes.cz/prazanum-nebude-v-tramvajich-vedro-ve-vozech-bude-klimatizace-p62-/praha-zpravy.asp?c=A110408_1563637_praha-zpravy_ab)

You guys don't know what heat is! :lol:

Interesting that in designing 15T they determined that 16 motors is necessary for Prague's hills, now apparently 12 is OK?

Well, we don't have your kind of heat, but years of summers in our rear engined Skodas, where the only option of postponing the inevitable overheating was turning the heater on taught us the lesson. :)

Yup, the full traction was requirement for the tender (otherwise someone else could win :nuts:). And suddenly...
It shouldn't be a problem technically, but I wonder how it'll go along with the paperwork.

^^
Believe me, Skoda was not the only manufacturer of automobiles requiring the heater to be turned on to stop overheating in hot climate - start with British cars for example!

I'm surprised they wanted over 700 kW of power in 15T to start with, when 14T is a similar tram that does the same job in Prague with about 540 kW. Full acceleration in 15T must leave the passengers glued to the back window and you would get to the top of the grade at Troja before you leave the bottom!

A small technical question - does anyone know why DPP uses grooved (or checkrailed) tramrails on the Modrany and Barrandov light rail lines when most new light rails now are using plain T section railway rail?

Grooved rails allow for smaller height of wheel flange. Don't forget that we were quite a bit behind "western" systems. Some recently reconstructed sections also feature rails with railway profile (Lehovec, Motol), though not in all parts (usually grooved rails are kept in curves). This year's reconstruction of Modrany track should also introduce new "railway style" stretches.

Nový typ tramvaje snad už konečně na obzoru. Více viz článek Libereckého deníku (http://liberecky.denik.cz/zpravy_region/nove-tramvaje-pro-liberec-budou-tissi20110428.html).

Grooved rails allow for smaller height of wheel flange. Don't forget that we were quite a bit behind "western" systems. Some recently reconstructed sections also feature rails with railway profile (Lehovec, Motol), though not in all parts (usually grooved rails are kept in curves). This year's reconstruction of Modrany track should also introduce new "railway style" stretches.
Thanks Bobek_Azbest. Sounds like they are just following a trend. Grooved tram rails are now becoming harder to get as steelmakers don't want to produce small quantities for a limited market. Certainly they are better for curves and so, often, checkrails are used on curves rather than grooved rails. I understand DPP manufactures (or did manufacture) its own rail so this may have had something to do with their prevalent use in Prague?

I wouldn't apologise for Prague being "behind" "western" systems for one moment. Maybe in some areas of technology, but operationally and in terms of results (moving huge masses of people with clockwork efficiency) I could not think of many systems of a similar size that can hold a candle to Prague. You don't know how good you have it. Your public transport absolutely is the best, but of course everyone has something to whinge about in their own city! :)

The rails are manufactured by Třinec steelworks. But clearly it's pretty much impossible to abandon grooved rails completely in a system like we have in Prague - the rail profile is very inconvenient in places where the head of the rail has to be level with surrounding surface (not even speaking about the switches...).

Lagging behind western systems: I meant that we had different problems, state of the tracks was very poor in general, and we had to fix that first (and there's still a lot of work to do :)). Rail profile was actually considered for Modřany track, but traditional rails were chosen because the state of the wheels of most trams was simply inadequate for safe operation on rail profile. Even now only some trams are allowed into the new stretches with the "new" profile (recognizable by this symbol (http://www.prazsketramvaje.cz/obrazky/navesti/navest_piktogram-s49-001m.gif) on the windshield).

The (sometimes-not-so-)clockwork operation in even worse conditions of 1970s or 80s could be attributed to foolproof nature of T3s - there are advantages in decades of production of already mature concept. :)

New trams for Liberec: seems to me like an advanced version of what can be seen in Leipzig (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leoliner).

Thank you again Bobek_Azbest. If I can stretch tolerance of my annoying questions I want to ask another in terms of derailment and the accident at karlovo namesti about 5 years ago when the second car of a T3 pair derailed at the corner. My question is what did the investigation of the accident uncover as the causes? Did the tram enter the curve too fast or did the driver accelerate prematurely while the second car was still on the curve?

And secondly the stack up on the Modrany line a few years ago involving several trams - what was the cause of that and why were so many trams in close proximity when they were rear-ended?

Just chewing over some issues of tram operation and safety and who better to ask than the world's best experts .... :)

T...I want to ask another in terms of derailment and the accident at karlovo namesti about 5 years ago when the second car of a T3 pair derailed at the corner. My question is what did the investigation of the accident uncover as the causes? Did the tram enter the curve too fast or did the driver accelerate prematurely while the second car was still on the curve?
Probably both, but mostly acceleration. The second car was going over 30kph instead of allowed 15kph when leaving the switch.

And secondly the stack up on the Modrany line a few years ago involving several trams - what was the cause of that and why were so many trams in close proximity when they were rear-ended?
I don't know anything about the reasons. The queue was caused by faulty tram.

^^
Many thanks.

Prebehol som celý topic dúfajúc, že sa dozviem niečo nové o trati Liberec-Jablonec a nič. Tak by ma zaujímalo pár vecí:
- ako to vyzerá s rekonštrukciou linky 11?
- má sa celý úsek zdvojkoľajniť alebo budú stále úseky s jednou koľajou?
- ako to vyzerá s rozširovaním trate v Jablonci?

Díky :)

1) V podstatě probíhá, ale bude to ještě běh na dlouhou trať, po skončení probíhající výluky bude možné prohlásit, že je trať rekonstruována až po zast. Nová Ruda.
2) Dvoukolejka bude až po současnou výhybnu "Lékárna", dále zůstane jednokolejka, sic s úpravou systému výhyben, která umožní větší frekvenci spojů.
3) Vůle je, ale v Jablonci se pořád nedohodli, jak si to vlastně vůbec představují.

A boli aj nejaké plány na zdvojkoľajnenie celého úseku až do Jablonce alebo na to nie je priestor? Inak neexistuje nejaká fan stránka, kde by sa dali pozrieť fotky z rekonštrukcie, resp. zrekonštruované trate?

Plány byly na spoustu věcí, např. polookružní vedení trati přes Mšeno a Kunratice zpět do Liberce. Nemá smysl řešit, o čem se přemýšlelo, ale co je skutečně v plánu, neboť v tomhle ohledu je to asi uzavřená věc a na základních rysech nové podoby trati už by se v zásadě nic měnit nemělo.
Na fóru K-report.net se v příslušné sekci každou neděli objevují fotky z právě probíhající rekonstrukce. Fotky z provozu na již zprovozněných úsecích můžeš najít např. na serveru phototrans.eu - fotky se tam dají hledat přímo v mapě, takže najít něco z těch správných míst by neměl být velký problém.

^^ Vďaka
A máš pravdu, tým čo mohlo byť, nemá význam sa zaoberať. Mňa len zaujímalo, či tam je fyzicky priestor na zdvojkoľajnenie alebo nie. Lebo čo som pozeral na youtube videá, tak sa mi zdalo, že hej. :)

Teoreticky by se tam ty dvě koleje vždycky nacpat daly. Žádné místo, kde by v případě přemístění konce trati bylo fyzicky nemožné zdvoukolejnění, není. Nejlépe samozřejmě za předpokladu blokového ukončení trati.

Poloha 15T s wifi real time
http://poloha.vozu.cz/#9224
Zobrazuje se i buňka GSM nebo 3G se kterou komunikuje.

Poloha 15T s wifi real time
http://poloha.vozu.cz/#9224
Zobrazuje se i buňka GSM nebo 3G se kterou komunikuje.
Very interesting to watch, particularly it gives the speed of the tram. Perhaps this will eventually go on the screen display in the 15T?

So what are the other three vehicles being tracked? One guy was in Vienna but seems to be back in Prague, another is heading towards Brno and the other went to Germany but is back in Usti nad Labem - and they never seem to exceed 100 km/h which is very modest for a Czech driver. :nuts:

Are these Skoda "trams" from Mlada Boleslav? :lol:

186.182-2 is Bombardier Traxx loco owned by Railpool and operated by Railtrans (mostly container trains Prague-Rotterdam for Metrans)
761.003-3 is Siemens Eurorunner loco (one of the three recently bought by Metrans)
SA* are Student Agency buses

Thanks Bobek_Azbest. Very interesting project.

Č.K.D. Tatra trams (streetcars) where one of the best trams in the world. They've runned in Romania and are still running in some cityes. Some where bought as new, other second-hand from former East-Germany (G.D.R.) (D.D.R.).
When I was a teenager I've noticed a small resamblance between the boggies of U.S.A. P.C.C. trams and Tatra trams... and later I found out that the Č.K.D. Tatra trams (for a long time I thought that the Tatra trams where manufactured by the "Tatra" truck company) where in fact made after a P.C.C. licence. Just curios, when Czehoslovakia bought the lince to manufacture P.C.C. trams: before communist regime or after communist regime?

Why they disemtled the trolleybuses in Praha/Prague?

^^
They bought the licence just before communism and actually paid the first licence fee. But after 1948 they just kept dishonestly using the copyright for free, eventually producing far more PCCs than the US ever did, about 18,000 I think. CKD Tatra had the eastern European licence, Belgium (I would have to look up the name of the company) had the western European licence.

How many Tatra T1 and T2 are still surviving?
The Tatra trams are good for a hilly city like Prague.

T1: none (last one finished its regular service in Plzeň way back in 1987).
T2: last two T2Rs are used in Liberec.

~5 pcs of both types are preserved in museums throughout CZ.

Any of you tram gurus know why the trams stopped during yesterday's blackout in central Prague? Normally I would think there are alternative systems for maintaining power to the trams (my observation in previous blackouts when the trams kept running).

I will try to explain it as simply as possible.
Usually a blackout occurs, when the last stretch of a low-voltage (400/230V in CZ) cable before your house breaks down. Or more seriously the whole medium voltage (22kV in Prague) line/cable connecting more transformers to low voltage falls out.
In this case it was a fault of a 110kV/22kV transformer in the switching substation in Prague Center. So the whole city quarter was dark, as all the MV (22kV) lines that were connected to this transformer where without electricity. And the tram traction substations are also feed by 22kV lines, part of the tram network from this 110kV/22kV transformer. As soon as the electricity utility managed to connect the 22kV lines to a different power source/transformer it was OK.
The trams do not have a different power source, but the AC power grid is very reliable and it has many backups, this time it took 30 minutes to switch it to the backup, as a fault on 110kV transformer is very rare and the procedure is therefore not automated, there is a plan where to connect the grid, but it takes some time. Last blackout of this size in the city center occurred 10 years ago, although the reason was different from a transformer.
And yes I work for electricity grid company.

Thanks Sch1 for "enlightening" (pardon the pun) on this subject! I can remember a couple of blackouts in Prague but the trams round the corner were still running, so your explanation helps. :)

Hello,I am wondering if anyone here can shed light on the fate of tram T4R #3339, which was never delivered to Bucharest, Romania. In total, 130 Tatras were delivered back in the mid-70's, numbered 3301-3431. #3339 was skipped, and nobody - including officials from the Bucharest Transport Company (RATB) was able to explain why.Best Wishes to all Czech tram fans.

All I can find...
An urban legend tells that CKD had wrongly printed the number and RATB sign on a car that was delivered elsewhere, then they sent the last car for Bucharest with the number 3431. However, RATB's documents always mention 130 T4R trams for Bucharest, and not 131.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatra_T4

Is it possible to steal the tram?

Yes, I am aware of that legend, but I think in the absence of any other supporting information, it is just a rumour.#3339 was never delivered to Bucharest, so it could not have been stolen. Another urban legend says that the tram was loaded onto the wrong train in Prague and was sent to the U.S.S.R. but personally, I find that pretty hard to believe.This is why I asked this question here on this forum, in the hope that somebody with a better knowledge of Czechoslovak trams and CKD numbering practices can shed light on this issue.

No idea. Maybe try asking here (http://tram-forum.prazsketramvaje.cz/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=870) (English is OK), but I still doubt that anyone there can solve your conundrum.

This is NOT an explanation, just another (& rather simple) theory:
Maybe the tram was manufactured, but damaged/destroyed in an accident before/during transport (like, say, a fire) and a new one was delivered instead.

Prodloužená a rekonstruovaná TT do Podbaby připravená ke zprovoznění. Zdroj: technet.idnes.cz (http://technet.idnes.cz/podivejte-se-na-nejmladsi-tramvajovou-trat-v-praze-bude-velmi-ticha-1p3-/tec_reportaze.aspx?c=A110829_184626_tec_reportaze_rja).

http://i.idnes.cz/11/083/org/RJA3d78b4_IMG_4114.JPG

http://i.idnes.cz/11/083/org/RJA3d78b8_IMG_4117.JPG

http://i.idnes.cz/11/083/org/RJA3d78c7_IMG_4138.JPG

http://i.idnes.cz/11/083/org/RJA3d78cc_IMG_4140.JPG

http://i.idnes.cz/11/083/org/RJA3d78d2_IMG_4151.JPG

http://i.idnes.cz/11/083/org/RJA3d78d3_IMG_4154.JPG

http://i.idnes.cz/11/083/org/RJA3d78da_IMG_4174.JPG

http://i.idnes.cz/11/083/org/RJA3d78db_IMG_4176.JPG

http://i.idnes.cz/11/083/org/RJA3d78f6_IMG_4189.JPG

"Moderní" maticové displeje model TT Řepy a Hradčanská obsahují jednu příjemnou změnu (prazsketramvaje.cz):
http://i56.tinypic.com/29p5aac.jpg

Tf6XUQs1Eqo
via kijfilm.blog.cz (http://kijfilm.blog.cz/1108/jedeme-do-podbaby)

Co tramvajáci milují a co nenávidí v nové 15T For City
http://technet.idnes.cz/co-tramvajaci-miluji-a-co-nenavidi-v-nove-15t-for-city-fhy-/tec_reportaze.aspx?c=A110403_150531_tec_reportaze_rja

What was the cause of this terrible accident?

http://zpravy.idnes.cz/foto.aspx?r=krimi&c=A110919_071032_praha-prilohy_cen&

It looks like a T6 pair has been written off and two 14Ts damaged - one driver killed.

No conclusions yet. Sudden indisposition of the driver is suspected, as he didn't stop at the previous station and the T6 hit the 14T at 65kph (maybe he actually died before the impact). Only one 14T was damaged, but its two rear sections are beyond repair as well (but the structure did its job). Definitely an unfortunate event, but thankfully this happened early in the morning with an empty tram heading onto its route from depot, and not during rush hour...

No conclusions yet. Sudden indisposition of the driver is suspected, as he didn't stop at the previous station and the T6 hit the 14T at 65kph (maybe he actually died before the impact). Only one 14T was damaged, but its two rear sections are beyond repair as well (but the structure did its job). Definitely an unfortunate event, but thankfully this happened early in the morning with an empty tram heading onto its route from depot, and not during rush hour...
Uncanny similarity to the Waterfall train crash in Sydney (2003) where the driver had a heart attack and the vigilance control was tricked. Do Prague trams have vigilance control? Also a second 14T appears to have crashed into the rear - how did that happen?

Uncanny similarity to the Waterfall train crash in Sydney (2003) where the driver had a heart attack and the vigilance control was tricked. Do Prague trams have vigilance control? Also a second 14T appears to have crashed into the rear - how did that happen?

That one didn't crash, it just stopped behind the T6, you can see that on photo 9.

^^
Thanks - bit hard to see in the photos.

Do Prague trams have vigilance control?None that I know of.

Edit: reportedly 14T and 15T possess some kind of this.

None that I know of.

Edit: reportedly 14T and 15T possess some kind of this.

All trams have vigilance control. For the T6 there is a dead man's pedal.
Changing the subject, does anyone know where I can find pictures of car 9006, which was scrapped after an accident? I am interested in pictures taken after the accident had occured because it seems a bit odd that they didn't bother repairing it, since only one section of the tram was affected.

I think that the best looking and most practical tram is the new Skoda T19, here to see in nice blue collors

rvf-iwSCuUA

sEjeOJuAd8g

_lMLVBkrvj0

Vibrator-designer finds Kotas does not give sufficient satisfaction:

http://www.radio.cz/en/section/one-on-one/anna-maresova-the-designer-of-award-winning-whoop-de-doo-sex-toys

:shocked:

Vibrator-designer finds Kotas does not give sufficient satisfaction:

http://www.radio.cz/en/section/one-on-one/anna-maresova-the-designer-of-award-winning-whoop-de-doo-sex-toys

:shocked:

Finally we have something interesting here so where are the reactions? Is it perhaps a taboo? :)

I cannot disagree with her. Night rides would be much more amusing if the tram had a 'vibration' function.

I don't see the point in reinventing the wheel, most trams on most stretches already posses the vibration feature. :D

Edit:
Škoda won in tender for 31 low-floor, bidirectional trams for Miskolc, Hungary. However, the tender was held for the fourth time :nuts:, so we'll have to see how this actually ends.
Press release available (http://skoda.cz/cs/o-spolecnosti/novinky/skodovacke-tramvaje-budou-vozit-cestujici-v-madarskem-miskolci/) in Czech only.

Since the tram is supposed to be 100% low floor, i guess they will be supplying bidirectional 15T. Lets see if three or four segmented version...

That's good. I wonder what is happening to the Zurich tender? It was supposed to be decided in May but only silence since then.

Vibrator-designer finds Kotas does not give sufficient satisfaction:

http://www.radio.cz/en/section/one-on-one/anna-maresova-the-designer-of-award-winning-whoop-de-doo-sex-toys

:shocked:I liked her tram design, at least the look is better than most trams lately.

^^ The design reminds me of Bombardier's Flexity Outlook for Marseille (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marseille_tramway).

That's good. I wonder what is happening to the Zurich tender? It was supposed to be decided in May but only silence since then.:dunno: Probably nothing yet, that wouldn't go unnoticed.

Today, after 49 years, the regular service of classic T3 trams (6xxx series) in Prague came to an end. (article (http://praha.idnes.cz/v-prazskych-ulicich-dojezdila-po-padesati-letech-posledni-tramvaj-t3-1g8-/praha-zpravy.aspx?c=A111219_155542_praha-zpravy_ab) in Czech)

^^ No chance to keep at least a historic tram line with those trams in service? That would be a tourist attraction, i guess...

Same mistake has been done in Budapest when the traditional UV-trams left the service... :ohno:

No need to worry, there are still tons of more recent T3 incarnations roaming the streets of Prague. :)

Historic tram line is operated mostly by older trams (up to T1), but for example line 22 on workdays is pretty much a museum as well. :D

^^ Thx for Your reply. No, i do not worry, simply T3 belongs to the cityscape of Prague. For our children another tram-type will be of this importance, i know :D

Looks like they have got an RT6N operating in Brno:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBouq_a4mWQ&feature=endscreen&NR=1

Seems to be a bit of a goer with no obvious problems! Why exactly did these trams not work properly in the first place? Are they still operating in Poznan?

No problems? Don't be fooled by the first impression :)

Trams look nice.:):cheers::cheers:

Looks like they have got an RT6N operating in Brno:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBouq_a4mWQ&feature=endscreen&NR=1

Seems to be a bit of a goer with no obvious problems! Why exactly did these trams not work properly in the first place? Are they still operating in Poznan?

Yes, they are still in operation.

One of them - car # 405 (http://galeriapgk.com/details.php?image_id=18244) - was even upgraded by Modertrans.

Except that it really has been modernized ex-Prague car #9102 (http://phototrans.eu/15,41420,109.html):lol:

Yes, they are still in operation.

One of them - car # 405 (http://galeriapgk.com/details.php?image_id=18244) - was even upgraded by Modertrans.

Except that it really has been modernized ex-Prague car #9102 (http://phototrans.eu/15,41420,109.html):lol:
I think DPP had two - did the second one also go to Poznan?

No problems? Don't be fooled by the first impression :)
It seems to go like a hot brick, not a sick tram! :lol:

Perhaps Liberec should get its one out - these trams are obviously like vintage wine, they need to stand for a decade before using. :)

I think DPP had two - did the second one also go to Poznan?

Yes:

http://galeriapgk.com/details.php?image_id=14670

DPP had four, actually (9101-9104) and sold all of them in 2009 to "SKD Trade"
http://www.prazsketramvaje.cz/view.php?cisloclanku=2009100201
Two of them were later sold to Poznan

DPP had four, actually (9101-9104) and sold all of them in 2009 to "SKD Trade"
http://www.prazsketramvaje.cz/view.php?cisloclanku=2009100201
Two of them were later sold to Poznan
Thanks, I figured that much. I might have lost something in the translation but is it true the other two were also taken by Poznan for spare parts?

Větší rekonstrukční akce na pražských tramvajových tratích pro letošní rok (předpoklad):
- Dukelských hrdinů / nábř. Kpt. Jaroše (březen)
- Zenklova od Bulovky nahoru (jaro)
- něco okolo Blanky - zbytek Letné, Myslbekova (léto)
- křižovatka Flora (léto)
- Průběžná + Švehlova (léto)
- Poděbradská: Harfa - Kbelská (léto)
- Vinohradská: Želivského - Vinice (podzim)

Prague trams 18 years back...
cC1JQHtf0F8

New Skoda 25T designed for Miskolc:

http://zpravy.e15.cz/byznys/doprava-a-logistika/skoda-konecne-podepise-smlouvu-na-tramvaje-do-madarska-743144

An evolution of 10T/14T etc type but now 100% low floor.