This was one of my favourite threads on CE forum, now well-buried in European Forums archives. I thought I might establish a CZ thread and start it with a link from the old thread:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=512141&highlight=tramways+central+europe

I hope that is OK? There may also be other CE threads also worth continuing on a country-specific basis.

^ sure it's OK, we are glad you contribute to our so far bit deserted forum :okay:

Let's start this thread with a survey. In a patriotic way :D:

Czech republic is a traditional tram power.
CKD Praha tram division had been world's largest tram producer +/- in 1960-1990.
CKD trams are still to see in all European ex-communist countries except Poland.
The fame of CKD trams is over, but czech tram producers play an important role in world market (Inekon Ostrava company supplies trams for tram network in Seattle, for exapmle) again.
In 2008 there work 7 tram networks in the Czech republic, incl. all cities popluated 100,000+. Well, 6 of them in country total :D...

Tram networks in Czech rep.:

Praha; pop 1,190,000
26 day and 9 night lines; 141 km of tracks
Brno; pop 370,000
13 lines; 70 km of tracks
Ostrava; pop 310,000
14 day and 2 night lines; 66 km of tracks
Plzeň; pop 165,000
3 lines; 18 km of tracks
Olomouc pop 105,000
5 lines; 14 km of tracks
Liberec pop 105,000
4 lines; 22 km of tracks (one line goes to neighbour town of Jablonec, pop 44,000)
Most pop 70,000 and Litvinov pop 25,000
common network; 5 lines; 15 km of tracks

Cancelled tram networks in a past :ohno::

Bohumín
České Budějovice; replaced by trolley-buses
Český Těšín
Jablonec nad Nisou; 1 line connecting Jablonec with Liberec works as a part of Liberec network
Jihlava; replaced by trolley-buses
Mariánské Lázně; replaced by trolley-buses
Opava; replaced by trolley-buses
Teplice; replaced by trolley-buses
Ústí nad Labem; replaced by trolley-buses

P.S.:

Czech rep. is also a trolley-bus power. Historyworks, would you find it reasonable to add trolley-buses issue under this thread? Or, eventually, to make it's own thread?

Czech rep. is also a trolley-bus power. Historyworks, would you find it reasonable to add trolley-buses issue under this thread? Or, eventually, to make it's own thread?
Thanks for asking my opinion ov_79, but I feel too humble to make a ruling not being Czech! In one way it is logical, or perhaps it might be better to start a bus thread covering buses generally - trolleybus is more a bus than a tram. Just my opinion.

When you say CKD, is that where Tatra trams were produced? T3 production numbered about 15,000 I believe. Is this a record for one tram type in the world?

I feel too humble to make a ruling not being Czech!
Do not hesitate, if you find an interesting topic :). Kokpit calls this forum deserted, so any cactus is welcomed...

trolleybus is more a bus than a tram. Just my opinion.
It logically is. In paradox, legislative defines trolley-bus as a "trackbed". Trolley-buses do not have vehicle license number for example and in matter of administrative are understood the same way as trams.

When you say CKD, is that where Tatra trams were produced? T3 production numbered about 15,000 I believe. Is this a record for one tram type in the world?
Yes. Nowadays, there are Skoda, Tatra and Inekon tram producers in the Czech republic as far as I know. T3 is one general model which has several semi-models or versions... 15,000 T3 in the world... that sounds as a reasonable number; where did you find this info anyway?

Let allow occasional discuss on trolley-bus issue in this thread :), o.k.?

T3 info from Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatra_T3

(number is under 14,000 sorry, my memory was an approximation)

Is the Tatra tram brand still produced in CZ, I didn't know? I knew about Skoda and Inekon. At one time I think they had an alliance but this fell apart. Inekon complained about Skoda's lack of marketing expertise in the export market. I hope they can lift their game because they could have potential hot export property with the 15T.

I am happy with trolley buses on this thread. I recall the philosophy was different in British countries (UK, Australia, NZ), they were registered as buses. Now I think they are only in NZ, but I remember travelling on them in Australia - sometimes turning a corner the bus would go left and the trolley poles would go straight ahead and the driver would have to get out and move the poles!

btw I should say you produce really good trams ..the only decent we have by now are Czech :)

I found this in Radio Prague news today:
http://www.radio.cz/en/article/103777

Skoda ForCity's (15T) first export success: Skoda to deliver 20 ForCity trams to Riga (http://ekonomika.idnes.cz/skoda-transportation-doda-do-rigy-tramvaje-za-1-3-miliardy-korun-pvy-/ekoakcie.asp?c=A080527_164835_ekoakcie_pin).

The tram (type designation Skoda 17T) is a 100% low-floor, air-conditioned tram, derived from the most recent Skoda tram design, the 15T of which the city of Prague has ordered 250 units. Riga has firm orders on 20 units of 17T and options for additional 32 units. Currently there are about 250 trams running in Riga. Many of them czech built former CKD trams (now Siemens kolejová vozidla).

It's not Skoda's first export success in Riga. Deliveries of Skoda made low-floor trolleybuses (based on Iveco Irisbus bodyshell) of which the city of Riga ordered 150, is underway. Another low-floor trolleybuses based on polish Solaris buses are being delivered by another Skoda subsidiary, Budapest (Hungary) based Ganz-Skoda.

^^
I was first with this news on 30 April! :banana:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=20193262&postcount=380

(But I admit you will always be a better source than me HiRazor!)

So is 17T the bidirectional version? With air-conditioning Skoda can have a big potential market for this in three Australian cities if they do their marketing right. Sydney and Adelaide will be needing more lowfloor trams and Melbourne has to replace hundreds of old high-floors to comply with accessibility legislation. We need a demo model out here. :)

HiRazor:
Nice to read about any succesfull export of czech trams. Riga follows quality :)! Re-powering czech tram production rules :D...

Riga is developing fast so they needs more trams.. interesting..

^^ Thats great news for Skoda.

Note that Riga does not have metro and so Trams are its primary focus in rail transport.


Prague Tram extension to Radlicka metro station is progressing nicely.

Photos from April 20, 2008.

http://www.prazsketramvaje.cz/obrazky/radlicka/t-radlicka-vystavba-027.jpg

http://www.prazsketramvaje.cz/obrazky/radlicka/t-radlicka-vystavba-017.jpg

http://www.prazsketramvaje.cz/obrazky/radlicka/t-radlicka-vystavba-012.jpg

http://www.prazsketramvaje.cz/obrazky/radlicka/s-radlicka-vystavba-008.jpg

http://www.prazsketramvaje.cz/obrazky/radlicka/s-radlicka-vystavba-003.jpg

http://www.prazsketramvaje.cz/obrazky/radlicka/s-radlicka-vystavba-032.jpg

More photos can be found on this page.

http://www.prazsketramvaje.cz/view.php?cisloclanku=2008042902

^^ Nice photos, thanks Herzarsen

Which is the longest trip, which you can do with a tram in Czech?
In Germany it is a journey from Herten to Krefeld

Which are the nicest overland lines in Czech?
In Germany Kirnitzschtalbahn ( http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tramvajov%C3%A1_doprava_v_Bad_Schandau ) just a few kilometres away from the Czech border is very nice.

I am also adding extension of Radlicka tram line map. The extension construction images are above.

http://www.metroprojekt.cz/images/gallery/KDokumentum/314/o_prehledka_2000.jpg


---------------------


^^ Obelixx, interesting questions. I was able to find some answers.

Longest line in Prague is Line 3 with the length more than 40 kilometers. And probably the most scenic tram line in Prague is Line 22 with which you can see Square of the Peace, Prague Castle, National Theatre, Hvezda Summer Palace and much more. But if you are looking for naturally scenic route, then hopefully someone from the Liberec region can enlighten us. :)

^ 40 km? It's 22,5 km, I don't know if it's the longest one in Prague http://194.213.60.4/idos/Route.aspx?i=978&ttInd=1&Cycle=0&s1=3804&t1=10:01&s2=3123&t2=10:06&tt=pid

Which is the longest trip, which you can do with a tram in Czech?
In Germany it is a journey from Herten to Krefeld

Which are the nicest overland lines in Czech?
In Germany Kirnitzschtalbahn ( http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tramvajov%C3%A1_doprava_v_Bad_Schandau ) just a few kilometres away from the Czech border is very nice.

How long is Herten - Krefeld (Ruhrgebiet, right?)?

Overland, hmmm:
In Prague, line 22 Bila Hora - Nadrazi Hostivar is supposed to be most picturesque.
In Brno, line 11 Bystrc - Lesna, Certova rokle probably the one to recommend
In Ostrava, line 9 Poruba, Vresinska - Nova Hut is literally overlad. Troppau Silesia - Moravia - Teschen Silesia in few kilometres, :)...
In Olomouc, line 4, Pavlovičky area my favourite
In Liberec all of them probably as the town is hilly everywhere
Most-Litvínov inter-town line accross the Chemopetrol refinery so far recommended :D!!
Plzeň line 1 Slovany - Bolevec probably, but am not sure, if it is the best one.

The tram in Bad Schandau is spectacular :cheers:. I did not know it works there, though I ve been to Hřensko border crossing few times...

The longest line is supposed to be line 3 in Prague:
23,414 km following vlak-bus.cz
(those 40 km mentioned is with return ticket :D).
Also lines 17, 22 and 26 are over 20 kilometres.

I am also adding extension of Radlicka tram line map. The extension construction images are above.

http://www.metroprojekt.cz/images/gallery/KDokumentum/314/o_prehledka_2000.jpg


What's the yellow plan on the map? Metro?

Very likely. There's a metro B station just underneath. The yellow lines may represent either axis lines of tunnels (2 single track bored tunnels - one in each direction - plus a central platform tunnel in the station are a typical layout on this part of the line) or max outer boudary of metro structures.

^^Notice the white rectangle. That is underground metrostation Radlicka. You can see it written on the picture but it is not very clear. So the yellow lines must be the metro tunnels.

And yes the 40 km for line 3 must be a round trip. The source is actually Prague 7 website.

http://www.praha7.cz/About-Prague-7/Public-Transport-in-Prague-7

These lines definitely aren't the metro tunnels - look at the scale, they would have to be ~80 meters apart in the station itself (and they are not). Actually these are the limits of 'metro protection zone', where some regulations apply - buildings must receive the approval of the railway authority etc.

For the tram lines: yes, in Plzeň probably line 1 is the most interesting one, it runs across the main town square and rails are right next to the sidewalk in part of it's route, which is quite user-friendly (but really bad for parking). And the line 4 is probably the busiest tram line in Czech Republic, just take a look at the schedule (http://www.pmdp.cz/jizdnirady/?linka=4&v=3&s=0&z=19).

Prolongation of tram line to Brno Technology park has been opened!


http://www.e-salina.cz/c/co-se-neveslo/vystavba-nove-trate-tp.htm
Today I first used it to drive from Palačák dormitory to center. I didn't make any photos, but next time I go there, I will take a camera. The new terminus is on great place between dormitory, chemical faculty and near to technology park. I hope there will be huge developement of technology park near the terminus. Now there are just fields. http://www.mapy.cz/#x=138072224@y=132936352@z=15@mm=ZP@sa=s@st=s@ssq=brno%20kralovo%20pole@sss=1@ssp=120640421_123455361_150459301_149899137 Also the new exit from city bypass (Hradecká street) has been opened

@ov 79: I do not know how long the tramway line between Herten and Krefeld is, but I estimate its length of approximately 60 kilometres.

Obelixx:

The Skoda Routplanner says Herten-Krefeld is even 64 km - road... Hm, impressive. Is it integrated with Ruhrgebiet tram network?

Yes, it is.

Is a line of Ostrava tramway running to the Polish border?

Yes, it is.

Is a line of Ostrava tramway running to the Polish border?

No. It does not. It is not that closed :). There had been trams in border town of Bohumin, closed to Ostrava, until 50s. The cz/pl devided town of Tesin/Cieszyn (de: Teschen) had had a tram network in the beginning of 20th century.

Part of north-eastern Czech rep. is a historical Silesia (the rest 90% is in Poland). The czech Silesia has its western (Opava/Troppau) part and eastern (Tesin/Teschen) part.

The city of Ostrava is partly in Troppau Silesia (west, north), partly in Moravia (center, south), partly in Teschen Silesia (east). Tram no. 9 goes "Kreuz und Kwer" :). See:


http://img1.rajce.idnes.cz/d1/0/803/803024_a37389b0ce153a70405f31d5558d5825/images/Czech_Silesia.JPG
white: Moravia
orange: Moravian enclaves in Silesia
green - west: Opava/Troppau Silesia
green - east: Tesin/Teschen Silesia (czech part, eastern part in Poland)
blue: Hlucin district (part of Opava/Troppau Silesia, part of former Preussen, anected by Czechoslovakia in 1919).

PS: It is not easy region to understand :D. Ostrava tram no.9 does not make it easier :D.

New bi-directional tram built by Pragoimex/DPO - VarioLF3/2
http://ostramvaje.ic.cz/foto/1651-01_v.jpg
http://ostramvaje.ic.cz/foto/1651-02_v.jpg
http://ostramvaje.ic.cz/foto/1651-04_v.jpg
http://ostramvaje.ic.cz/foto/1651-06_v.jpg
Will be officially shown at Czech raildays (http://www.railvolution.net/czechraildays/)
Source: http://ostramvaje.ic.cz/clanky/vario_lf3-2.php

New bi-directional tram built by Pragoimex/DPO - VarioLF3/2
Source: http://ostramvaje.ic.cz/clanky/vario_lf3-2.php

Unfortunately, the graphic design does not serve very well the general design of the tram :( Could be better... But I imagine the company that runs the tram does not care too much as long as it drives... :ohno:

Well, it blends with the rest of the VarioLF family :) though somehow I like the first two prototypes' (http://www.pragoimex.cz/i/Image/P1010002a.jpg) color scheme more

After success in Oregon, Škoda trams to debut in U.S. capital

June 11th, 2008 issue
By James Tressler

http://www.praguepost.com/articles/photos/2008-06-11/6256-RailWmata005.jpg

Streetcars that Washington, D.C., purchased for $10 million are still in Ostrava while Washington awaits bids for the construction of suitable tracks.

For the PostTalk to many Americans who’ve lived in Prague — or anywhere in Europe, for that matter — and sooner or later they’ll comment on how nice the trams are. Take Reuben Berger, an American who has lived in the Czech capital for three years and takes trams to his various English-teaching jobs. “They’re great,” he said during a cell phone conversation from a tram. “And it’s not just the convenience. I also feel better about not creating as much pollution.”

When choosing the next place he’ll live, Berger will look for a city with good public transportation — and now he may be able to find some new options back in the United States.

Washington, D.C., has set its sights on a streetcar line — and has gone so far as to invest nearly $10 million (160 million Kč) for three trams from the Czech Republic. But there’s a hitch. Although the trams, or streetcars, were bought three years ago, the track on which the trams will run has yet to be built in the U.S. capital.

Manufactured through a now-defunct joint venture between Škoda and Inekon, the trams are still in the Czech Republic, stored at the Ostrava Transport Company. Fortunately the trams are under warranty and, like cars, are taken out regularly (without passengers) to keep them in good condition and tested. They are expected to be moved to Washington later this year.While Milan Haloun, sales director of Inekon Group, says Washington invited bids to build a new rail line in April, D.C. Department of Transportation Director Emeka Moneme has told news media that no timetable has been set for the tracks’ installation, but he hopes the city will focus on the project this summer.

Czech exports

Until the triumph of the automobile, trams were a staple of many U.S. cities. These days, although some like San Francisco and New Orleans (locale of Tennessee Williams’ A Streetcar Named Desire) still operate lines, most cities are light years behind their European counterparts in terms of public transportation.

There are signs that America is catching up, however. About a dozen other U.S. cities, including Baltimore, San Diego, Los Angeles and Minneapolis, have light-rail systems, and at least 80 cities are studying the idea of streetcars.

Portland, Oregon, for one, has a tram program up and running — and it uses cars made in the Czech Republic. Covering 7.2 miles, the rail system is a loop that includes a hospital, several waterfront neighborhoods and a university. The first streetcars were purchased from Škoda-Inekon in 2001, and more were added last year. A similar system, also using Škoda-Inekon cars, currently operates in Tacoma, Washington.

And now, Washington, D.C., is joining the list.

“The district purchased the streetcars from the Czech Republic because it had an opportunity to participate in a procurement that was under way with the city of Portland,” said Freddie Fuller, a spokesman for the D.C. Department of Transportation. “By participating in Portland’s procurement, it helped expedite the process for the district.

”Fuller added that, while he personally is not familiar with Prague’s tram system, he has used trams in other European cities, such as Bordeaux, France.

“We’re really intrigued with their wireless propulsion system,” he said.

Limited opportunity

Overall, the trend toward a streetcar revival in U.S. cities — or at least the effort to modernize public transportation — would seem to indicate that Czech manufacturers like Škoda are poised to benefit.

“By winning a tender in the United States, Škoda is tapping into a potentially lucrative market that remained elusive to this point,” Škoda spokeswoman Radka Pistoriusová told The Prague Post last year following the Portland deal. “[Trams] currently account for some 50 percent to 60 percent of our production.

”Because of a strict federal “Buy America” law, though, the majority of trams in the United States must be made, meaning opportunities for companies like Škoda to crack the market have limits.

Meanwhile, Berger says a U.S. streetcar revival sounds interesting, but, for now, he’s still weighing his options.

“Actually I’m thinking about going to Moscow first,” he said.

James Tressler can be reached at news@praguepost.com

Source: http://www.praguepost.com/articles/2008/06/11/czech-trams-head-for-washington.php

http://www.k-report.net/discus/nahledy/171753.jpg

^ not bad, are they going to install air-conditioners inside?

No, albeit the tram is designed to have one. The Riga version of the tram will be air-conditioned. However DPP officials think a-c is not necessary in Prague and it is not worth the extra (especially operating) costs.

Wrong decision imho.

That's pretty wrong, I went by new Porsche tram in June during hot weather (30°C) and it was terrible... all windows opened but it didn't help at all
Strange that Riga is even northern from Prague but will have a-c in it's trams...

So when are we going to see the real thing and if it actually works! (You Czechs must be real confident talking up something so much that doesn't yet exist!)

You have some pretty hot summers there I see - almost Australian temperatures sometimes. Even though Pres. Klaus says global warming isn't coming I think you would appreciate A/C with 250 people inside on a hot day. Don't expect miracles though - the A/C in the Bombardier flexis in Adelaide turns its toes up on hot days. Skoda should make sure they get some Australian A/C technicians - Europeans don't know what real heat is! We make aircon with hairs on its chest here :lol:

(BTW aircon system also provides heating in winter)

Be patient hw.

Rome wasn't built in a day either. So far the project is on schedule, first prototype to be unveiled at Innotrans trade fair (http://www1.messe-berlin.de/vip8_1/website/MesseBerlin/htdocs/www.innotrans.de/index_d.html) in september.

Whether the tram will work as promised won't be known for a couple of months yet, however no alarming rumours so far.

Another set of updates from construction of Radlicka extension. This is from June 8, 2008.




http://www.prazsketramvaje.cz/obrazky/radlicka/t-radlicka-vystavba-099.jpg

http://www.prazsketramvaje.cz/obrazky/radlicka/t-radlicka-vystavba-110.jpg

http://www.prazsketramvaje.cz/obrazky/radlicka/t-radlicka-vystavba-096.jpg

http://www.prazsketramvaje.cz/obrazky/radlicka/s-radlicka-vystavba-088.jpg

http://www.prazsketramvaje.cz/obrazky/radlicka/s-radlicka-vystavba-082.jpg

Kind of projects, which I find wonderful. :cheers: thx

http://www.prazsketramvaje.cz/obrazky/radlicka/t-radlicka-vystavba-110.jpg
this might be the steepest tram track in Prague, at least one of the steepest (together with Troja and Barrandov tracks)

http://www.prazsketramvaje.cz/obrazky/radlicka/t-radlicka-vystavba-110.jpg
this might be the steepest tram track in Prague, at least one of the steepest (together with Troja and Barrandov tracks)
Any idea what gradient (ratio or percent)?

This is actually not the biggest climb the Trams have to make in Prague's hilly neigbhrhoods. The steepest climb is in Troja, it is 470 meters long and has a gradient 80,15%. And the longest climb is to Barrandov. These are pictures of the Troja area.

http://i.idnes.cz/07/092/nesd/RJA1dbf70_P9110689.JPG http://i.idnes.cz/07/092/nesd/RJA1dbf64_P9110673.JPG http://i.idnes.cz/07/092/nesd/RJA1dbf68_P9110678.JPG

Herzasen:

Thanks for the interesting post. Don't you accidentally have a link with tram climbing percentage in CZ? I am interested in: Praha: Hlubocepy-Geolgicka; Malostranska-Chotkovy sady; Vltavska-Strossmayerovo namesti-Kamenicka-Letenske namesti; Nam.bri Synku-Nuselska radnice-Paloucek; Vrsovicke namesti-Krymska-Francouzska; Stejskalova-U Krize-Vosmikovych-Bulovka-Okrouhlicka? Brno: Jugoslavska-Tomanova-Zemedelska; Nove sady-Silingrovo namesti; Vsetickova-Heinrichova-Namesti Miru? Plzen: Pod Zahorskem-U Gery? Liberec: Vratislavice-Jablonec? Olomouc: Climbing the scaffold bridge above railway station :D?

^^ Trojská is 80.15‰.
^ Hlubočepy-Geologická should have 62‰.

Interesting places (in terms of grade) should be the "safety stops". One of them is in Jičínská street, other I know of is between stops Krejcárek and Palmovka.

this might be the steepest tram track in Prague, at least one of the steepest (together with Troja and Barrandov tracks)
Well it just looks that steep on the photo.

^^ Trojská is 80.15‰.
^ Hlubočepy-Geologická should have 62‰.

OK guys this is where you get to find out I am a hopeless mathematician! How you render your gradient figures is different from in English-speaking countries. We use ratios (e.g. 1:10 or 1:20) or percentage - more like 10% for a typical steep tramline. I don't understand the basis of your 62% or 80% figures. Please forgive me if I am being stupid and missing something simple! :bash:

OK guys this is where you get to find out I am a hopeless mathematician! How you render your gradient figures is different from in English-speaking countries. We use ratios (e.g. 1:10 or 1:20) or percentage - more like 10% for a typical steep tramline. I don't understand the basis of your 62% or 80% figures. Please forgive me if I am being stupid and missing something simple! :bash:

Not a hopeless mathematician as a blkind reader:
Trojská-Nad Trojou: 80.15‰.
Hlubočepy-Geologická: 62‰.

Not a hopeless mathematician as a blkind reader:
Trojská-Nad Trojou: 80.15‰.
Hlubočepy-Geologická: 62‰.
OK I'll put it another way. Assuming your ‰ symbol (which we don't use) means the same as ours % (percent), and for us a steep tramway gradient beyond which trams would not be able to climb unassisted would be about 9% (1:10), then your amazing Prague trams must be able to climb near-vertical walls! :lol:

So I presume you must be using different measurement criteria - perhaps the reverse of the way we do it? In some of Herzasen's photos the grades look about 1:8 (11%) which is about as steep as we had in Sydney without assistance.

^^ read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_mil
10 permil (10‰) = 1 percent (1%), so 80.15‰ = 8.015%
now it's all clear :)

^^ read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_mil
10 permil (10‰) = 1 percent (1%), so 80.15‰ = 8.015%
now it's all clear :)
Phew thanks kokpit, that's all clear! Like I said you have a dud mathematician here :nuts:

Looking at some of your photos it is hard to believe the worst grade is only 8%, but even so your trams must have powerful motors on all wheels to take the grades. The problem with us western countries buying German and French trams is I don't think they have much understanding of severe grades. The Sydney Variotrams couldn't take the only mild grade on the line on a wet day and had to be fitted with sanding equipment! Same in Adelaide with Bombardier flexis.

Here for your entertainment was our worst - 12% grade down to Balmain ferry terminus on Sydney Harbour. The line had a counterweight and the tram pushed the dummy down the hill to help braking and the dummy helped push the tram up the hill:

http://www.historyworks.com.au/balmain.jpg

I bet you don't have this problem :lol::

http://www.historyworks.com.au/traminwater.jpg

historyworks:
^^
:D, not such problems at the moment, but I can imagine it can once happen here too.

Thanks for your passion about CZ :), just a note: What about to move from AU to CZ :nuts:?

:D

^^
I keep talking about it ov_79 but the old saying applies..."the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence"! Trouble is we talk to all these Czechs here who say, don't be crazy, Australia is much better. I say, but its so expensive here and the facilties are crap and they say yes, but you have nice beaches and sunshine :ohno:

...and then when they're living here they start complaining about the schools, the hospitals, the transport...."Czech Republic is much more advanced blah blah blah" :nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts:

The only solution I can see is that one day CZ will be populated by Australians and AU will be populated by Czechs! :banana:

Trouble is I wouldn't be able to winge about transport infrastructure in CZ whereas there is plenty to winge about here. I would have to find something else to do :)

"the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence"!

This apllies to your statements too ;) May be you are too much influenced by your Czech wife :)

This apllies to your statements too ;) May be you are too much influenced by your Czech wife :)
No definitely not - she says I am a much better Czech than she is! :lol:

We already have Czech food, Czech beer - just send some T3s over here and I will be happy! :)

After 6 years (!) of out-of-order, the tram K2R (ev.1039) reached Brno streets again on July 4 :cheers::

http://bmhd.goo.cz/foto/2007/20070122/bm1039d.jpg

After 4 years of out-of-order, the (in my humble opinion prettiest) tram RT6N1 is in (testing) service!! in Brno of course (Prague has given up on it's 4 pieces already)
http://foto.prazsketramvaje.cz/jine/brno/21072008/brno-149-rt6-1801-technologickypark-l12.jpg
together with 13T
http://foto.prazsketramvaje.cz/jine/brno/21072008/brno-132-1901-technologickypark-l13.jpg
http://foto.prazsketramvaje.cz/jine/brno/21072008/index.php
Let's hope that the testing will be successful and RT6 gets it's license to normal service (13? years after construction :) )

Pars nova modernised (http://www.parsnova.cz/index.php?im=99&lang=en) one of Prague's RT6s with new motors "to increase the reliability of the vehicle that never successfully passed all the tests necessary for type recognition". Perhaps Brno has had the same work done on number 1801.

The K2R (http://www.parsnova.cz/index.php?im=58&lang=en) is also a Pars nova project.

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/82/p1010241bi7.jpg
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/462/p1010242pl6.jpg

http://prazsketramvaje.cz/obrazky/radlicka/s-radlicka-vystavba-131.jpg
http://prazsketramvaje.cz/obrazky/radlicka/s-radlicka-vystavba-134.jpg
http://prazsketramvaje.cz/obrazky/radlicka/s-radlicka-vystavba-136.jpg
http://prazsketramvaje.cz/obrazky/radlicka/s-radlicka-vystavba-138.jpg
http://prazsketramvaje.cz/obrazky/radlicka/t-radlicka-vystavba-228.jpg
http://prazsketramvaje.cz/obrazky/radlicka/t-radlicka-vystavba-230.jpg
http://prazsketramvaje.cz/obrazky/radlicka/t-radlicka-vystavba-231.jpg
http://prazsketramvaje.cz/obrazky/radlicka/t-radlicka-vystavba-232.jpg
http://prazsketramvaje.cz/obrazky/radlicka/t-radlicka-vystavba-236.jpg

^^^^:ohno:

kdo povoluje ty protihlukový zvěrstva v intravilánu? :bash::down::puke:


... navíc v tý nejodpornější a nejlevnější variantě. Z chobotnice na letný se dělá problém, ale to že se celá Praha zahnojuje tím nejpodřadnějším šuntem nikomu nevadí. :bleep::bleep::bleep:

^^tak tak. jinak na tom kopci za ní by se kaplického knihovna vyjímala rozhodně víc než na letné :)

first tram at brand new end station Radlicka!
http://foto.prazsketramvaje.cz/2008/zari/10092008/67-vystavba-tt-radlicka-8658-363-radlicka-prvnitramvaj.jpg
though it needed a bit help to get there :nuts:
http://foto.prazsketramvaje.cz/2008/zari/10092008/43-vystavba-tt-radlicka-8658-042-zenskedomovy-pretah.jpg
more photos:
http://foto.prazsketramvaje.cz/2008/zari/10092008/index.php
regular service start planned for 3.10. (I think)

^^^^:ohno:

kdo povoluje ty protihlukový zvěrstva v intravilánu? :bash::down::puke:


... navíc v tý nejodpornější a nejlevnější variantě. Z chobotnice na letný se dělá problém, ale to že se celá Praha zahnojuje tím nejpodřadnějším šuntem nikomu nevadí. :bleep::bleep::bleep:

I promise that when I'm the mayor of Prague, this shit will go.

New Trolleybus Škoda 28Tr tested for Pardubice, it has Solaris design
http://i.idnes.cz/08/092/gal/JTE25b97b_125331_3594212.jpg.
http://i.idnes.cz/08/092/gal/JTE25b97a_125146_4752184.jpg
http://zpravy.idnes.cz/plzni-putuje-na-zkusebnich-jizdach-novy-typ-trolejbusu-p2j-/domaci.asp?c=A080912_211957_domaci_jte

^^
Very nice-looking bus. Is there an interior photo of this or another trolleybus? I'm interested to see how much space the electric motors take up inside. Is there a flat floor right through the bus?

What are the circumstances for operators to choose using trolleybuses in CZ rather than trams (which they are very close to) or diesel buses?

^ Well the interior is basically the same as of corresponding buses.
Škoda 24Tr interior:
http://www.mestskadoprava.net/galeria/galleries/Pardubice/tr-busy/interier322_12.5.07-1.jpg

Solaris Trollino 15AC Interior (should be pretty much the same on Škoda 28Tr):
http://www.trolejbus.cz/2006/trollino/troll-interier.jpg

Edit: for comparison, this is the interior of the last "pure" trolleybus from Škoda - the 21Tr (ok, articulated 22Tr was actually the last one ;):
http://panny.goo.cz/index/mhd/386_int_2.jpg

As for the second question: I think that it's the political question in the first place. The operators cannot just say "hey, let's set up a trolley system" - well, they can, but they have to receive authorities approoval. And then there's a little tiny question of money...

There's not many information about, I've only found two more photos on Pardubice public transport website http://www.dpmp.cz/index.php?str=114
It's 15 m long and I expect it is 100% low floor, same as Solaris Trollino 15.
7 cities in Czech Rep have tram lines and I think this will remain for some time http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seznam_měst_s_tramvajovým_provozem#.C4.8Cesk.C3.A1_republika

and the map of Trolleybus, Tram and Metro public transport systems
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ee/Metro%2C_tram_a_trolejbusy_v_ČR.jpg/800px-Metro%2C_tram_a_trolejbusy_v_ČR.jpg

7 cities in Czech Rep have tram lines and I think this will remain for some time
The way things are going the more electric transport and the less petroleum-powered transport you have the better!

Thanks for all the pix kokpit and Bobek_Azbest

7 cities in Czech Rep have tram lines and I think this will remain for some time

Unfortunately there are no money even for beautiful project of Regiotram Nisa (tram system covering nearly whole area of Liberecky region and neighbouring parts of Germany and Poland). http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regiotram_Nisa

I like this: "Největším problémem projektu je nezajištěné financování. Autoři spoleháli na získání evropských dotací, ministerstvo dopravy však projekt ze seznamu projektů vhodných pro tyto dotace vyškrtlo s tím, že jiné projekty jsou pro Česko důležitější."

It says briefly that the motorways, expressways and other shit has higher priority than the public transportation. I think I'll vote for the Green Party next time :-P

Unfortunately there are no money even for beautiful project of Regiotram Nisa (tram system covering nearly whole area of Liberecky region and neighbouring parts of Germany and Poland). http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regiotram_Nisa

I like this: "Největším problémem projektu je nezajištěné financování. Autoři spoleháli na získání evropských dotací, ministerstvo dopravy však projekt ze seznamu projektů vhodných pro tyto dotace vyškrtlo s tím, že jiné projekty jsou pro Česko důležitější."

It says briefly that the motorways, expressways and other shit has higher priority than the public transportation. I think I'll vote for the Green Party next time :-P
I can't believe Europe is as silly as Australia - what will happen when the petroleum is unavailable/unaffordable?

we will switch to horses ;)

Tomorrow will be introduced new tram for Prague ForCity in Škoda Plzeň areal :cheers: It is finished.

^ can't wait to see it live :cheers:

First live photo of Škoda 15T ForCity
100% low floor, total capacity 300 passengers, 61 seats, 31.4m long, 2.46m wide, six doors, each 1.3m wide
:cheers:
http://i.idnes.cz/08/092/maxi/KUZ25d393_Obraz011.jpg.
http://i.idnes.cz/08/092/maxi/KUZ25d39a_Obraz014.jpg.
http://i.idnes.cz/08/041/maxi/RJA224be3_14T.jpg
http://technet.idnes.cz/dnes-poprve-vyjel-prototyp-tramvaje-pro-prahu-21-stoleti-pkx-/tec_reportaze.asp?c=A080916_223514_tec_reportaze_rja

more photos...
http://www.dp-arena.cz/1/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2532&Itemid=1
front view
http://www.dp-arena.cz/images/stories/2008/718-skoda%2015t/04.jpg
rear view
http://www.dp-arena.cz/images/stories/2008/718-skoda%2015t/10.jpg.
http://www.dp-arena.cz/images/stories/2008/718-skoda%2015t/06.jpg.
http://www.dp-arena.cz/images/stories/2008/718-skoda%2015t/08.jpg
interior
http://www.dp-arena.cz/images/stories/2008/718-skoda%2015t/21.jpg.
http://www.dp-arena.cz/images/stories/2008/718-skoda%2015t/22.jpg.
http://www.dp-arena.cz/images/stories/2008/718-skoda%2015t/23.jpg.
http://www.dp-arena.cz/images/stories/2008/718-skoda%2015t/30.jpg.
http://www.dp-arena.cz/images/stories/2008/718-skoda%2015t/50.jpg.
http://www.dp-arena.cz/images/stories/2008/718-skoda%2015t/29.jpg.
http://www.dp-arena.cz/images/stories/2008/718-skoda%2015t/61.jpg.
http://www.dp-arena.cz/images/stories/2008/718-skoda%2015t/67.jpg
:cheers:

more photos from technet.cz, Prague will get 250 of these
http://i.idnes.cz/08/092/maxi/KUZ25d401_tramvaj_15T.jpg.
http://i.idnes.cz/08/092/maxi/KUZ25d403_tramvaj_15T_2.jpg.
http://i.idnes.cz/08/092/maxi/KUZ25d404_tramvaj_15T_4.jpg.
http://i.idnes.cz/08/092/maxi/KUZ25d405_tramvaj_15T_5.jpg.
http://i.idnes.cz/08/092/maxi/KUZ25d405_tramvaj_15T_7.jpg.
http://i.idnes.cz/08/092/maxi/KUZ25d406_tramvaj_15T_6.jpg

another source http://www.prazsketramvaje.cz/view.php?cisloclanku=2008091601
http://www.prazsketramvaje.cz/obrazky/vozyosobni/15t-038.jpg.
http://www.prazsketramvaje.cz/obrazky/vozyosobni/15t-036.jpg

Krása :cheers:, už aby jezdila v ulicích. Připomíná soupravy metra M1.

You've scooped HiRazor kokpit! After the T3s this will be a nice surprise for Prague. Very classy.

And I hope it will be a nice surprise for at least one Australian city one day!

^ But our trams do not take in account kangaroos... ;)
So far, about twenty trams were sold to Riga, of course Škoda hope to sell more of them, however they were primarily developed for Prague.
few more interior pics
http://i.idnes.cz/08/092/maxi/RJA25d455_Snimek_081.jpg
this is quite narrow...
http://i.idnes.cz/08/092/maxi/RJA25d455_Snimek_078.jpg.
http://i.idnes.cz/08/092/maxi/RJA25d453_Snimek_070.jpg.
http://i.idnes.cz/08/092/maxi/RJA25d450_Snimek_034.jpg

^^
More likely I hope they have taken into account the need for a full proper air-conditioning system! (People are fainting in Bombardier Flexis in Adelaide in summer because the European aircon doesn't do a good enough job :lol:)

15T might have been designed for Prague but there is no escaping the fact that it is a revolutionary design internationally. It immediately puts all other trams in an older generation. I wonder how Skoda as a company will be able to handle having such hot property to sell? CZ used to be the world's biggest tram manufacturer but now it is overshadowed by the big western companies who have all the commercial experience and power. I remember the director of Inekon saying they split their alliance with Skoda because of Skoda's (perceived to them) lack of commercial/marketing talent. But I notice they have formed an alliance again to tender in Canada. Perhaps the best thing Skoda for export purposes might be able to do is licence the design for others to manufacture?

Awesome - they are coming to Riga as well:)

But I notice they have formed an alliance again to tender in Canada.
Skoda & Inekon are already out from the Toronto tender. Only Alstom, Bombardier a Siemens remained.

some interesting photos here http://www.k-report.net/clanky/skoda-15t-je-zde/

the new skoda tramway looks beautiful!

this is quite narrow...
http://i.idnes.cz/08/092/maxi/RJA25d455_Snimek_078.jpg.

Do you think a wheelchair will fit through that passage? The width of the passage isn't given in the plans so far released.

It's 70 cm, from what I've heard (read).

It's 70 cm, from what I've heard (read).
Sounds like it's only just OK (possibly below some international standards). They must have been scratching their heads a lot in the design office trying to get the maximum width for the bogies balanced against the maximum width inside!

Well is there actually any reason why should wheelchair go through there? ;)

Well is there actually any reason why should wheelchair go through there? ;)
Probably not generally speaking as there is a space in the first carriage. But the advantage of 100% low floor is in principle complete freedom of movement through the tram - e.g. if too crowded in one section and you want to relocate, or emergency evacuation. Small possibilities admittedly but I like to see advantages maximised. Same issue applies to baby prams but I think these are narrower. Yes perhaps I am being too pedantic! :bash:

Anybody there know of the reason Skoda-Inekon was excluded again from Toronto? There is a lot of discussion on the issue of finding a suitable 100% low floor vehicle for Toronto's substandard track and tight curves and in Canadian web blogs there is some disussion of the 15T. One blogger suggests the 15T is in fact the ideal vehicle. Bombardier is favoured by Toronto Transit Commission yet there is a problem with the tram they propose. The only thing I can find from TTC website is this:

http://www.ttc.ca/postings/gso-comrpt/documents/report/f3712/LF_LRV_Project_Presentation_-_Aug.27,_2008.pdf

It describes the issues but doesn't say why Skoda was excluded from final shortlist.

I don't know anything about the exclusion of Skoda/Inekon, but I doubt that 15T would be suitable for Toronto's network - especially because of the tight curves, with radiuses as small as 11m ! (20 meters minimum here in CZ) However I've read that Inekon had some new vehicle project ready which they wanted to offer (and needed their biggest rival Skoda to manufacture it)...

Thanks for the link, it's very interesting :)

Thanks isidor. Interesting that Prague has such generous curves for such an old system in an old city. Even on the modern Sydney MLR line I think the minimum in the street section is 16.4 m. So that opens a new question - what minimum radius is 15T designed to take? I notice that although the bogies pivot, they have a limit.

Edit: Correction - Sydney is 20 m, Melbourne is 16.8 m. I can see that tenderers would have their work cut out in Toronto at 11 m! I don't think they will find a low floor tram that will do that. Here is a document with some good information:

http://www.apta.com/about/committees/rail/vintage/documents/circulator_trackway_report_final_3_30_07.pdf

isidor:
Do you have any link to a source, where to find the information about the radiuses in the Prague tram network?
This week I was searching it, but without succes. I only know that the loops in Prague have 20m radius. I would like to know something more, like where the tightest curves are etc. Some of the street curves seem to me tighter than the loop, but I might be wrong.

historyworks:
The trams in Prague cut corners very often, like they have shown in the Toronto presentation and didn't accept it, that's maybe why we managed not to have curves that tight. The smallest radius ever in Prague 13.2m was in one depot, no longer in service since 1950's http://www.prazsketramvaje.cz/view.php?cisloclanku=2006041312 czech only

Unfortunately I don't (if you're interested you could contact DPP, they might help you out. Or ask at tram-forum.com). I only know that CKD trams were built for minimum radiuses of 18-20m (in regular service; exceptionally even 16) - some parameters can be found here http://www.skd.cz/tramvaje/ or in english (http://www.skd.cz/EN/tramvaje/index.htm)

Here are min radiuses for some of tramcars operating in Prague (street/depot):

T3: 18/15 m
T6: 19/17 m
KT8: 18/18 m

IIRC the smallest instance of a radius occuring on Prague network is 18 m and 20 m is a compulsory minimum for newly built/reconstructed tracks.

Welcome back HiRazor! So what are the radii for 15T I wonder?

Welcome back HiRazor! So what are the radii for 15T I wonder?

Imagine...not nearly this good::D
http://villamosok.hu/nza/tatra/4152-36.jpg

^^
That tram should definitely go in the Toronto tender!

What about this, doing "the splits"! (Citadis in Melbourne):

http://img91.imageshack.us/my.php?image=c3032twistedmc6.jpg

Welcome back HiRazor! So what are the radii for 15T I wonder?

Way too busy recently, but I see the reporting on 15t wasn't harmed as fortunately others did the job.

For the minimum operating radii of 15t, they're the same as these of T3 (i.e. 18 m in commercial service / 15 m in depot. The tramcar is designed as a direct replacement of it incl. loading gauge etc. so that it can operate anywhere T3 is operated - i.e. half the globe.

anywhere T3 is operated - i.e. half the globe.
LOL! So true :lol:

If you can, please let us know of the results of any trials and whether it lives up to expectations of its performance. Are they going to run that demo model with the 3 different seating types in Prague to test on the citizens?

^^
That tram should definitely go in the Toronto tender!

Thats an ordinary T5C5. You can find heaps of it in EE. I think the turning radius is like 5m in this case:D
This particular accident happened because a switch was not secured properly,and the back didnt follow the front...

This particular accident happened because a switch was not secured properly,and the back didnt follow the front...
Same with the Citadis in my post - points changed under the tram and front went up one track and the back up another! But your photo well-illustrates the problem for low floor design, so new systems seem to be now designed with minimum 20m radius. At least the 15T having bogies at the end won't have a wide swept path.

HiRazor I wonder if an implication for Prague of replacing T3s with less 15Ts (which have higher passenger capacity) means that you will have less frequent services? What is the present passenger capacity of a coupled pair of T3s?

Official capacity of single T3 is 100 people, official capacity of 15T under the same circumstances is 210 people (however I think that real-life capacity of 2xT3 will be a little bit higher than that of 15T). But not all T3s will be replaced by the current order of 15Ts. There are currently ~360 unmodernised T3s (T3, T3SU(CS), T3M), which will all go (sale or scrapyard, also modernisations are still done), and ~300 modernised T3R.Ps, which will last at least 15 years. Then there are T3R.PVs (35) and low-floor(-ish) T3R.PLFs (12 currently), which all are basically new trams. While no more R.PVs are planned, R.PLFs are still manufactured. So T3 reincarnations will be with us for quite some time.

I also heard of plans to get rid of the unmodernised T3s and also sell the T6 (possibly all 150 of them).

I also heard of plans to get rid of the unmodernised T3s a
Can I have one please? Surface postage will be OK :)

Well, 20 T3s were sold to North Korea not long time ago, so why not to Australia ;)

According to this article, Škoda is still in Toronto tender http://logistika.ihned.cz/c4-10002800-28180820-B00000_d-skoda-chce-koupit-vyrobce-v-cizine
Škoda at InnoTrans in Berlin http://www.skoda.cz/holding/novinky/skupina-transportation-zaujala-na-svetovem-veletrhu-innotrans-aid2710.html
http://www.skoda.cz/images/1602.jpg

According to this article, Škoda is still in Toronto tender ...
Yes, also noticed that, although it contradicts earlier reports from TTC.

Extension of Tramline in Radlice is to be openned on October 4, 2008.

Prodloužení tramvajové trati do Radlic ovlivní i další linky MHD

vydáno: 02.10.2008, 09:43 | aktualizace: 02.10.2008 10:04


Praha - Prodloužení tramvajové trati do Radlic, kterou budou moci pražští cestující poprvé využít v sobotu 4. října, ovlivní i další linky pražské hromadné dopravy. Od soboty tak začnou tramvaje jezdit nejen v úseku Laurová - Radlická, ale bude obnoven také provoz v úseku Na Knížecí - Laurová, jenž byl přerušen v dubnu. Úpravy se dotknou i tramvají číslo 4, 6 a 7 a některých autobusů. Dnes to sdělil Filip Drápal, mluvčí společnosti Ropid, která v Praze a jejím okolí organizuje dopravu.


Na nové trati ke stanici metra Radlická, po které bude jezdit tramvaj číslo 7, budou zřízeny zastávky Škola Radlice a Radlická. Mezi současnými zastávkami Křížová a Laurová navíc přibude Braunova. Ve večerních hodinách se cestující u tohoto spoje dočkají kratších intervalů, tramvaj bude jezdit každých deset minut místo současných 20.

Náhradou za linku 7, která v současné době vozí cestující až do sídliště Řepy, bude podle Drápala v ranní špičce prodloužena tramvaj číslo 4 o úsek Kotlářka - Sídliště Řepy. Tramvaj číslo 6 bude místo do stanice Na Knížecí jezdit do obratiště Kotlářka. Šestka bude v provozu pouze v pracovní dny mezi 6:00 a 20:00.

Od 4. října se změní také jízdní řády některých autobusů. V Bohnicích bude zkrácen interval na linkách 102 a 144 v pracovní dny ráno ze šesti na pět minut. Linka 154 bude zkrácena o úsek Chodov - Koleje Jižní Město, ve zrušeném úseku jezdí podle Drápala dostatečně linka 136.

Omezen bude také provoz linky 182, která bude končit v zastávce sídliště Lhotka a fungovat bude pouze v pracovní dny ráno. "Jako náhradu lze použít kapacitní autobusové linky 139, 205 a 253 s možným přestupem v zastávce Družná. Částečnou náhradou je také posílení provozu linky 189 v pracovní dny odpoledne ve směru Kačerov," uvedl Drápal. Školní linka 553 bude nově zajíždět až do zastávky Na Návsi.


Source: http://www.ceskenoviny.cz/regiony/praha/index_view.php?id=336422

Škoda at InnoTrans in Berlin http://www.skoda.cz/holding/novinky/skupina-transportation-zaujala-na-svetovem-veletrhu-innotrans-aid2710.html

And the same report in English (http://www.skoda.cz/en/skoda-holding/news/transportation-group-attracts-visitors-to-the-innotrans-world-trade-fair-aid2715.html).

http://i.idnes.cz/08/093/cl/RJA261952_IMG_3345.JPG
http://i.idnes.cz/08/093/cl/RJA261953_IMG_3347.JPG
http://i.idnes.cz/08/093/cl/RJA261954_IMG_3350.JPG
http://i.idnes.cz/08/093/cl/RJA261954_IMG_3351.JPG
http://i.idnes.cz/08/093/cl/RJA261959_IMG_3355.JPG
http://i.idnes.cz/08/093/cl/RJA26195a_IMG_3356.JPG
http://i.idnes.cz/08/093/cl/RJA26195a_IMG_3357.JPG
http://i.idnes.cz/08/093/cl/RJA26195b_IMG_3359.JPG
http://i.idnes.cz/08/093/cl/RJA26195b_IMG_3362.JPG
http://i.idnes.cz/08/093/cl/RJA26195c_IMG_3363.JPG
http://i.idnes.cz/08/093/cl/RJA26195d_IMG_3364.JPG
http://i.idnes.cz/08/093/cl/RJA26195e_IMG_3366.JPG
http://i.idnes.cz/08/093/cl/RJA261965_IMG_3367.JPG
http://i.idnes.cz/08/093/cl/RJA261965_IMG_3368.JPG
http://i.idnes.cz/08/093/cl/RJA261966_IMG_3370.JPG

Have to share this... today's Prague, from prazsketramvaje.cz (http://prazsketramvaje.cz/).

http://tram-forum.prazsketramvaje.cz/download.php?id=5386&mode=view

http://tram-forum.prazsketramvaje.cz/download.php?id=5387&mode=view

Yes, the trams are like this (red = T3s, green = T6s, blue = KT8):
http://bobkovo.cz/img/ssc/tram.jpg

:hammer: :hilarious

:lol:

^^
So trams can form triangles too - what clever technology!

Without translating every word, I gather that this post with interior pix of the Crotram and Berlin Flexity on the Prague tram forum

http://tram-forum.prazsketramvaje.cz/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1231&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=810

is comparing the factor of wheelbox intrusion in 100% low floor designs compared to the 15T. The Crotram certainly demonstrates the problem very well! The Flexity is neater but I suspect is able to be because the bogies don't pivot like the 15T. Would I be right (question for CZ tram experts on forum)? :)

Does anybody know where this scene is? I think it's on the Barrandov line.

http://video.filestube.com/video,10703ed0574a1ba303ea.html

I am trying to find good video of Prague trams at speed like this (but better quality). Any enthusiast DVDs or clips around that anyone knows of? I have already looked at several YouTube clips but not very good quality. Thanks.

I'm pretty sure it's in Jindřišská street, specifically here (http://www.mapy.cz/#x=133092448@y=135941119@z=16@mm=FP@sa=s@st=s@ssq=50%C2%B05%273.485%22N,%2014%C2%B025%2743.856%22E@sss=1@ssp=133084416_135935160_133105376_135951584).
Compare it to this:
http://www.atlasceska.cz/images/foto_kat/stredni/s1724_jindrisska.jpg
The white house on the right is Nr.16, the guy was shooting from the sidewalk opposite the Nr.22 (the yellow one).

And as a final proof, yes, there's a Baťa store (http://www.firmy.cz/detail/449434-bata-praha-nove-mesto.html) (which can be clearly seen in the video) in Jindřišská 20. :)

Well this actually doesn't have anything to do with trams, but since I really don't know where to put this (and I don't think that it would deserve it's own thread), I'll put it here, as this is probably the most visited public transit related thread. :)

The future is coming. According to the November issue of Škodovák magazine (http://www.skoda.cz/skodovak/soubory/20081128_skoda.pdf) (.pdf, 1.48MB, Czech only), Škoda company and Nuclear Research Institute are working on the new hydrogen-powered bus (not a hybrid, purely by hydrogen). By the look of things I would say it's basically their 24Tr trolleybus powered by the 48kW fuel cell and backed up by 26kWh batteries (max. output 100kW) and 0.36kWh ultracapacitors (max. output 200kW). The range should be 250kms and the road testing should start in spring.

By the look of things I would say it's basically their 24Tr trolleybus powered by the 48kW fuel cell and backed up by 26kWh batteries (max. output 100kW) and 0.36kWh ultracapacitors (max. output 200kW).

24Tr trolleybus? Rather Irisbus Citelis bus, which is either base for the 24Tr ;)

Maybe the czech forum deserves a special topic for buses and trolleys...

^ Well of course that it's based on the Citelis, but the bus part really isn't that important in this project, it's the electrical part which matters. ;)

Hello. Inekon built some trams for use in Washington, DC, USA, but Washington has not completed construction of the tracks yet. As a result, the trams have been running in Plzen Ostrava until Washington is ready to take them.

Here are two pictures of the DC trams. Does anyone have more? I would love to see them.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1408/896485341_bc99c8c03d_o.jpg

http://www.wtopnews.com/emedia/wtop/11/1166/116686.jpg

I think I got the city wrong. I think they are in Ostrava, not Plzen.

Yep. All 3 trams (completed 2007) are currently stored in Ostrava - Poruba tram depot. I don't know about any photos of them except perhaps those in this article (http://technet.idnes.cz/v-cesku-se-vyrabi-tramvaje-pro-usa-byli-jsme-u-toho-fs9-/tec_reportaze.asp?c=A061205_220719_tec_reportaze_rja) about manufacture of trams for the US in Inekon. Some of the trams depicted are presumably for Washington.

The trams are basically the same as those in Seattle whose pictures are easily available as they are already in operation. For instance Inekon site (http://www.inekon-trams.com/seattle_streetcar.html) features lots of them.

I dont think those are in service... I have not seen any...

They aren't in service hauling riders, but they are brought out from time to time to run on the streets and keep all the gears functional.

I've been able to find a few more pictures online, but just a few:

http://beyonddc.com/images/blogimages/DCstreetcar/1spz.jpg
http://beyonddc.com/images/blogimages/DCstreetcar/2vdva.jpg
http://beyonddc.com/images/blogimages/DCstreetcar/3pkms.jpg
http://beyonddc.com/images/blogimages/DCstreetcar/4zelpage.jpg

Skoda Forcity makes this tram a bit out of date. Washington should have waited before ordering its trams! :)

From Radio Prague news 17.1.2008:
New trams being removed from some routes in Prague
------------------------------------------------------------------------

The newest trams in use in Prague will be removed from some routes in
the coming weeks. The poor condition of some tram lines in the Czech
capital is being made worse by the heavy 14 T trams, say city
officials. However, the company which produces the trams, Skoda
Transportation in Plzen, rejects the suggestion that its vehicles are
harming tracks, saying that had not been proven.

-------
So what is the true story?

Duplicate post deleted

When will Prague get their first 15t's?

So what is the true story?
General belief suggests that 14Ts have a more negative impact on the rails then other Prague's trams (makes sense - despite the lubricating system, the bogies turn just a bit, and the axle pressure is higher). However, all the routes which will be now closed for 14T type are built using the BKV technology (prefabricated concrete panels), and many of them didn't receive any major maintenance in last 20 years.
So both factors are to blame - the trams and the track technology, both not very suitable for Prague's network.

When will Prague get their first 15t's?
No precise date is known yet. However, some rumours are around, but being rumours, they are usually saying "next month" and being postponed every month. :) Let's hope that 15T starts the tests in Prague in 1H09 (and some test drives in Pilsen are expected before that).

well yes some tracks are bad in Prague but I don't believe that 14T infacts badly on tracks.

bogies turn normally besides the space between bogies is as same as the Tatras I think is it right?

so I don't see any type of problem here the 20 year tracks must be changed with new technologies and won't be problem.


oh I'm so waiting to see 15T in Prague they're so beautiful much more than 14T I think they are ugly. looks like a potato.


waiting for 15T.

well now about speed.
I don;t find attractive Prague trams speed in city they can speed up mpre but they don't have very stupid timeslots

only 60 km/h is bad. must be 80-90 km/h on some intersections between stations that are far and like this are very much.

for example in Zagreb trams run much more fast like 75-85 km/h maximum the new TMK 2200.

in 15T's technical pasport it's written 60 km/h maximum Ican't belaive that this moder vehicle can't accelerate more than this.
I think that this is ony speed limit and it can much.

do you know something about it?

Dos anyone have Skoda 15T technical drawing big one?:banana:

14T's bogies are fix and they really cause damage of the rails.
Long live 15T!

14T's bogies are fix and they really cause damage of the rails.
Long live 15T!
Really? I thought the high floor sections would allow use of pivoting (rotating) bogies underneath. However according to the Skoda website 14T has a speed limiter for curves; this is usually necessary with fixed bogies.

Anyone know how many degrees of rotation the end bogies on the 15T have? The other (Jacobs) bogies are a different situation I guess as they work on conjunction with the articulation.

A layout plan for 15T is here, I haven't found any better:
http://www.skoda.cz/transportation/novinky/predstavuje-se-novy-typ-tramvaje-stoprocentne-nizkopodlazni-vuz-skoda-forcity-aid2444.html
http://www.skoda.cz/images/1472.jpg


waiting for 15T.

You and half the world :nuts:

in 15T's technical pasport it's written 60 km/h maximum Ican't belaive that this moder vehicle can't accelerate more than this.
I think that this is ony speed limit and it can much.

do you know something about it?


The top speed of 15T (as well as 14T) is limited electronically, so it's only a matter of a software change, the trams are powerful enough to reach higher speeds. I think that the 60kph limit is imposed by our legislation.

Really? I thought the high floor sections would allow use of pivoting (rotating) bogies underneath. However according to the Skoda website 14T has a speed limiter for curves; this is usually necessary with fixed bogies.
Nope, they are fixed, with a forced turning limited up to 4°.

watign so much so much fro 15T so beautifull.

thanks for drawing I had this drawing but small one and wanted big one thak you.

Hope 15T can reach technicaly more speed than 60 km/h. I know that it's limited electronicaly to 60 but I'msure that it can reach like 90 km/h

hey and this tram has separate motors on each wheel??? 16x45 haaa? is this so?:nuts:

Nope, they are fixed, with a forced turning limited up to 4°.
Well that's a surprise. So why the sections of high floor? - they could have had 100% low floor like the Combino with similar bogies. So no wonder they're a problem on Prague tracks. Sounds like someone in Skoda and DPP had a brain lapse. Similar problems with Combino in Melbourne which is an old system like Prague. They have to go very slowly on corners or they will derail. The tram enthusiasts here hate them!

I thnk Cominos are really ugly and 14T too. 14T looks like a potato ajajajaja

So why the sections of high floor?
The answer is very simple - because it's backward czech junkbox. ;)

The answer is very simple - because it's backward czech junkbox. ;)

No, I don't think so. I am not so negative about it at all. :)

First of all, I think that the tram has quite attractive design. Of course this is a matter of taste, but 14T certainly brought some modern shape to Prague trams after a long era of T3, T6 and KT8. And it actually looks much better in real life than on photos.

There has been a lot of criticism of the amount of space inside the tram. But many people miss the point, that this tram is made for less important lines. It is used on lines like 9 (which is a mistake), because at this moment, it is the best type DP has. It will later be replaced by 15T and sent to serve minor lines, where it will have no problems with capacity.

And finally, for the destruction of tracks, I wouldn't blame this tram to such an extent. I don't understand what quality DP and the public expects when the tracks are reconstructed rarely and very poorly. Using BKV even nowadays is equal to flushing money down the toilet.

I think that the biggest problem of 14T is the price. It is not a revolutionary product, why then 60mil per tram? For the rest I believe that it will serve its real purpose well.

Well say my opinion about 14T that about design I don't like it think it's ugly. but as a modern tram much better than tatras.



Here the Skoda version of 15T 31 m and 40 centimeters.
http://s55.radikal.ru/i147/0901/96/6d279c5324e0.jpg





This is my version shorter 21 m and 80 centimeters it could be nice to see this kind too for some cities I think technicaly it's able to do in this type what you think??
http://i013.radikal.ru/0901/85/4f30e6cd1c8b.jpg

First of all, I think that the tram has quite attractive design. Of course this is a matter of taste, but 14T certainly brought some modern shape to Prague trams after a long era of T3, T6 and KT8. And it actually looks much better in real life than on photos.
True.
The main problem is, that the competent authorities didn't think this way - if you want to buy new trams, then prepare tracks for them first. Every tram network needs vehicles that fit network's conditions (load, tracks configuration and quality and much more). And 14T simply doesn't fit Prague, no matter how good it looks.

CZK 60 million is about CZK 15 million less than we pay for a Flexity/Combino/Citadis, they are expensive. But perhaps some of that saving is from unidirectional (one driver's cab and doors on one side only)? I still believe a tram designer should also make a tram to fit a system, including catering for small radius curves and less than perfect track (not to say an operator shouldn't also improve the system). The big manufacturers like Bombardier etc I think try to convince operators to ease their curves to 30m so they can get the new trams around them. But there's no substitute for pivoting bogies + 100% low floor = Skoda Forcity!

Thanks for the drawings Tramwayman. I think the 15T will be modular like other brands so they can offer any combination. In Australia they probably only need half the number of doors but bidrectional. Also we need 2650 width here, not 2460 - I hope they will offer that. And also ability to run as coupled sets (two trams together).

much better is 2460 cause occupies less space tnah 2640 on the street. the less is width much better.

and about lenght ok it can be different types of trams.

but well

only thing I don't like is that bombardier's alstom's siemen's trams can turn only on 25 m radius. tghat's stupid

in Prague the turn's are very curvey like 15m and less

how than skoda 14t or 15t turn on them?

much better is 2460 cause occupies less space tnah 2640 on the street. the less is width much better.

and about lenght ok it can be different types of trams.

but well

only thing I don't like is that bombardier's alstom's siemen's trams can turn only on 25 m radius. tghat's stupid

in Prague the turn's are very curvey like 15m and less

how than skoda 14t or 15t turn on them?
I think it is better if my Czech friends answer some of these questions. But I understand minimum radius in Prague is 18m and 15T is designed for that. Yes Combinos and so on with fixed bogies are sold to systems like Melbourne that have 16 m curves - not good.

In Australian and North American cities our width requirements are different. We like more seats (2+2 across) but still a wide aisle for standees so we need approx 2650 wide. Bombardier/Alstom/Siemens are producing trams that wide for that market as well as narrower for European market so Czech tram manufacturers need to keep up with that ball game.

well yes, ok.
this modern manufacturers produce trams from 2.30 to 2.65 width. So Melbourne adn North America can found trams for it's compatibility very well.

In Prague the maximum curves are 18 m? you sure?
some seem to be very curvey.

In toronto are less than 15m.

In Prague the maximum curves are 18 m? you sure?
some seem to be very curvey.

Back here in this thread (post no. 97) our distinguished Czech tramway experts told us so:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=621329&page=5

Toronto is down to 11 m. Inekon has a design they think can work but I don't think they're being let into the tendering process:

http://www.inekon-trams.com/toronto/superior-plus-100percent-low-floor-tram.html

you know what why Bombardier Alstom and Siemens don't make their trams at least to turn on 15 m radius?? is it technicaly possible?

25 meters is veryyy big ancle this is stupid this means the tram is not flexible. very bad decision.

Bombardier Alstom and Siemens have not yet been clever enough to design a 100% low floor tram with bogies that can pivot more than a few degrees on curves. This means a high impact on the tracks on a curve and possibility of derailment if they go too fast. They can go around less than 25m radius but the smaller the curve the bigger the impact on the tracks. Only Skoda has solved this problem with the 15T. The alternative is to have partly high floor so pivoting bogies can go underneath. That is why the Skoda 14T, which has sections of high floor, is such a puzzle to me (non pivoting bogies) - even Skoda got it wrong!

This is the biggest challenge with low floor trams.

Not strictly Czech but a funny look at what you have to look forward to with the global warming President Klaus says will not happen:

http://www.railpage.com.au/f-t11347145-0-asc-s0.htm

40-45 degree heat in Adelaide Australia. The tracks buckle and the trams derail. The Bombardiers have roof panels removed to cool the equipment. They have to bring out heritage trams with opening windows because the European "air conditioning" :lol: on the Bombardiers can't handle it and everybody cooks to death inside. Will it happen in Prague? :nuts:

jajajajaj

that's why when I saw Skoda 15T I was so glad I liked the tram most of all

well if My town is going to built new tram network surely Skoda 15T is the best for us

becaus of the bogie types and it's configuration. the bogies are strictly far back and far front this is good for a tram cause it is abel to go on hills very easily.

in my town we have the hill where trams can go but the hill is starting very cliffy and the bombardier or alstom tram will crash the nose on the asphalt before the bogie reaches the hill ahaha.

that's why Skoda has bpgies front and back so it won't crash anything.

hope you understand.

like this see the TTC streetcar

crashes front and back on street like this bobardier and alstom will do the same until the bogie reaches street hill.

to Skoda 15T won;t happen this. heheeee:lol:
http://s57.radikal.ru/i156/0901/d5/084adaa08730.jpg

Well Skoda 15T is 100 % low floor to the corridor in sections are narrow but how much will the bogies be flexible? min curve radius 17 m?

I think cause the corridor is naroow about 70 cm. from 2.46 m it is left 176 cm for flexibility and this menas from both parts 88 cm each part at least

so how much 15T bogie can turn when it has 88 cm for turning. I think must be less than 18m.


I hope I didn't write stupidness up there ahahahhaa

You need to go back through this thread Tramwayman, your questions are answered on previous pages. 18m turning radius for 15T. The turning radius of the bogies on the articulations (the Jacobs bogies) must also have a relationship to the movement of the articulations but I'm not enough of a technical expert to comment on that.

V Liberci se budou kompletovat nové tramvaje (http://liberecky.denik.cz/zpravy_region/dopravni-podnik-chce-ve-svych-dilnach-montovat-nov.html). Liberec se tak vydává podobným směrem, jako Ostrava nebo Brno. Půjde o dvoučlánkové vozy.

Well I have read and se that the minimum curve radius for commercial service is 18m.
and for depots is 15m.

that really good

this doesn't meand taht 15 or 16 or 17 m curves ca't be made on streets the tram will turn ok. hehehehe.


historyworks
by the way do you know where my homtown is and which country?

historyworks
by the way do you know where my homtown is and which country?
Of course I do Mr Georgia! I hope one day I can go there :cheers:

Beautiful city and also 40 degree temperatures! :lol:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tbilisi

oh no ahahaha
about temperatures it's not always 40 ti happenes sometimes 6 or 7 times in summer. nothing more.
the normal temperature hot is 35 degree.

now we have temperature from 5-15 degree but in december we had from -10 to -25. and lots of snow ahahahah.


And about Trams I hope someday we will make trams as we had in the past. and 15T is the best for us. mayeb a shorter ones with two sections not three.

This time from Brno :lol:
http://www.k-report.net/discus/messages/48/160249.html?1233246237

http://www.k-report.net/discus/nahledy/243204.jpg

r0b: jen takové OT... ty jsi taky zaregistrován na K-R? ;)

Ne, jsem jen návštěvník a sváteční přispěvovatel... :)

ahahahahaa

another time ahahaha this is cool but how the drivers can't imagine that they can't go through? ajajajajja

Have you ever driven a tram? It's impossible to see everything..

Yes I have driven a tram in my town we had this type of junctions too.
when you drive long tram you mustn't go through this type of junctions like this it's easy to let on tram go and then you go what is a problem why the three ones must go toghether.

OK I have an operational question for you Czech tram guys. I am having this debate here where I am arguing for the advantages of a unidirectional tram system as opposed to a bidirectional system. By unidirectional I mean the trams go one way only (driver's cab at one end), have doors on one side and use track loops to turn around. Most western systems stick to bidirectional, I think mainly because they are suspicious of the unidirectional system and think it is too inflexible.

I would like to know whether there are any significant problems in operating a unidirectional system and what is the operating experience over the years? Have any Czech transport authorities considered change to bidirectional or are they happy the way things are?

(I think some Prague trams - KT types? - are bidirectional though, any reason for this?)

OK I have an operational question for you Czech tram guys. I am having this debate here where I am arguing for the advantages of a unidirectional tram system as opposed to a bidirectional system. By unidirectional I mean the trams go one way only (driver's cab at one end), have doors on one side and use track loops to turn around. Most western systems stick to bidirectional, I think mainly because they are suspicious of the unidirectional system and think it is too inflexible.

I would like to know whether there are any significant problems in operating a unidirectional system and what is the operating experience over the years? Have any Czech transport authorities considered change to bidirectional or are they happy the way things are?

(I think some Prague trams - KT types? - are bidirectional though, any reason for this?)
I think that using a bidirectional system is considered unnecessary here. I can not think of any significant problems which could arise from the current system. The only complications can come when you need to change direction without a loop or a triangle during track closures. For this case, KT trams are used, and 47 trams are enough for this purpose in Prague (therefore no bidirectional 14T or 15T). Also in Brno, Ostrava and Plzeň, KT8 is used in such cases. In the remaining cities they use T3's coupled back-to-back.

One of the biggest advantages of the unidirectional system is the possibility of arranging all the seats in a tram in the same direction, like in T3 and T6. All the people sit in the direction where the tram rides, and people don't sit against each other (they usually hate sitting against foreigners).

Thanks Tramfreak. So the trick is to have a number of bidirectional cars available in case of temporary short-workings. (That would freak a lot of western/Australian operators out, they are very conservative!) Only one question - how could you work with e.g. T3s back to back, the doors would be on opposite sides in each carriage?

Same thing in Australia about the seats, people don't like facing each other so trains have flip-over seating but with bidirectional trams they have to face each other and half travel backwards (but the old trams here had flip-over seats). It seems to me unidirectional trams have many advantages including probably cost-saving on purchase because of only one driving position and doors on one side only. I think it is operational conservatism about short workings (and sometimes availablity of land for turn-around loops) that prevents many operations from considering them.

Only one question - how could you work with e.g. T3s back to back, the doors would be on opposite sides in each carriage?

Yes, this actually was used several times, at least in Liberec where no KT8s are available and also in Plzeň (on the photo), where wasn't enough of them during one phase of the reconstrucion of the central exchange point. Only one of the two tramcars is then used to carry passengers.

http://www.plzensketramvaje.cz/provoz7/262-263-PX-1p.jpg

Here's very cool Prague tram track map hope you like it.


http://s57.radikal.ru/i158/0902/9b/a2e925682c3a.gif

What a fantastic plan. You're a hero Tramwayman! Now I know that Georgia is the best source of information on Prague tramways! :lol:

I did wonder how they stored unidirectional trams in the tramsheds. Now I know they reverse them in using a triangle.

I have some hope that I will be visiting Prague/CZ in the next few months (at last, after 10 years!). I am keeping my fingers crossed that circumstances will be favourable. If so, you will see me chasing the 15T LOL!

Very nice Tramwayman:)

Here's very big PDF version of Praga tram track map that I have posted above.
Enjoy very cool and detailed.

http://doprava.unas.cz/Schemata/praha_ed.pdf

Here are paper models that tyou must print cut and make all in scale and made sperb detailed save all this you will like this

http://doprava.unas.cz/Model/t1.pdf
http://doprava.unas.cz/Model/t2.pdf
http://doprava.unas.cz/Model/t3.pdf
http://doprava.unas.cz/Model/t6a5.pdf
http://doprava.unas.cz/Model/t2.pdf
http://doprava.unas.cz/Model/k5ar.pdf
http://doprava.unas.cz/Model/kt4.pdf
http://doprava.unas.cz/Model/ktnf6.pdf
http://doprava.unas.cz/Model/ktnf8.pdf
http://doprava.unas.cz/Model/vario.pdf
http://doprava.unas.cz/Model/t3plf.pdf
http://doprava.unas.cz/Model/13t-14t-16t.pdf
http://doprava.unas.cz/Model/kotera.pdf
http://doprava.unas.cz/Model/ulf.pdf
http://doprava.unas.cz/Model/plechac.pdf

^^
You can also do better than paper:

http://www.mb-modely.eu/atlasobchod/

I'm trying to work out whether these are powered with electric motors and whether HO or TT scale. Perhaps I can email them in English and see what happens. Otherwise this is my new friend!:
http://translate.google.com/translate_t#

Do you work on the tramways in Tbilisi Tramwayman?

I have already emailed them an year ago and biught tram T6A5. with motor.

some of them are motorized and all are in HO scale.

15T is going to start the test runs in Pilsen very soon...

http://dopravni.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/dscf9608.jpg

More pictures at the source (http://dopravni.net/mhd/2124/princezna-v-plzni/#more-2124).

Unconfirmed information:
- in Prague since 16th March
- very quiet

Už se těším až se svezu s ForCity v Praze :cheers:

Do you work on the tramways in Tbilisi Tramwayman?
The tram (anr trolley also) networks was closed in Tbilisi in 2006.

The tram (anr trolley also) networks was closed in Tbilisi in 2006.
Thanks WladYslaW. No wonder I couldn't find any information on it! :lol: Not many are closing tramways nowadays, more the opposite.
Look forward to seeing 15T in Prague in April :cheers:

I am surprised they have to use a transporter to move the tram in Plzen. Don't they have a connection to the tramline at the Skoda factory?

I am surprised they have to use a transporter to move the tram in Plzen. Don't they have a connection to the tramline at the Skoda factory?
No, they haven't.

Thanks WladYslaW. No wonder I couldn't find any information on it!
here (http://parovoz.com/electro/) you can find any informatoin about urban electric transport in states of xUSSR. (Sorry, that web-site has English version, but that page only in Russian :ohno:)
If you want you can to visit the site (http://urbantransport.kiev.ua/en_main_1.html) about electric transport of Ukraine (and other countries).
You can find the rolling stock, some photo, any news etc.

My all photos of DC's trams (test ride May 14,2007):

http://fotodoprava.cba.pl/ostatni/ostatfoto/Trio%20washington.htm

I wanted to post here direct photos,but When I wanted to insert a picture, I can't load it,so I must use only hyperlink..

Thanks. I posted a link to your pictures here (http://beyonddc.com/log/?p=669).

Some more pictures from 15T's first trials:

15T boards a truck in Škoda factory in Pilsen...
http://tram-forum.prazsketramvaje.cz/download.php?id=5920
http://tram-forum.prazsketramvaje.cz/download.php?id=5921

...to be transported to Slovany tram depot in the same city...
http://tram-forum.prazsketramvaje.cz/download.php?id=5925

...and to finaly venture into its first trial runs in the city of Pilsen...
http://tram-forum.prazsketramvaje.cz/download.php?id=5922

^^
So HiRazor we'll see how 15T goes on Plzen's kurva before it tries out Prague's kurva! :lol:

Yep she will be trained on Pilsen curves before she meets genuine pražský kurvy in mid march.

Yep she will be trained on Pilsen curves before she meets genuine pražský kurvy in mid march.
Damn, she will get to pražský kurvy before I do (maybe June)! :)

What a nice discussion! :lol:

I will not let HiRazor forget his wonderful pun! :lol:

here (http://parovoz.com/electro/) you can find any informatoin about urban electric transport in states of xUSSR. (Sorry, that web-site has English version, but that page only in Russian :ohno:)
If you want you can to visit the site (http://urbantransport.kiev.ua/en_main_1.html) about electric transport of Ukraine (and other countries).
You can find the rolling stock, some photo, any news etc.
I forgot to thank you for your information WladYslaW. :cheers:

15T's first trip into the city:

http://tram-forum.prazsketramvaje.cz/download.php?id=5960&mode=view

http://tram-forum.prazsketramvaje.cz/download.php?id=5963&mode=view

:cheers:

http://tram-forum.prazsketramvaje.cz/download.php?id=5955
http://tram-forum.prazsketramvaje.cz/download.php?id=5956
http://tram-forum.prazsketramvaje.cz/download.php?id=5957
http://tram-forum.prazsketramvaje.cz/download.php?id=5958
http://tram-forum.prazsketramvaje.cz/download.php?id=5959
http://tram-forum.prazsketramvaje.cz/download.php?id=5960
http://tram-forum.prazsketramvaje.cz/download.php?id=5961
http://tram-forum.prazsketramvaje.cz/download.php?id=5962
http://tram-forum.prazsketramvaje.cz/download.php?id=5963

No jo :) Noční zkušebky s libovolnými fotozastávkami jsou nedocenitelné...

pekne

http://media.novinky.cz/072/160724-gallery1-cajku.jpg
http://www.novinky.cz/ekonomika/164289-nova-skodovacka-tramvaj-pro-prahu-se-jiz-prohani-po-plzni.html
Mně se líbí, už aby bylo těch 250 kousků v Praze :)

^^ Tak to si ještě počkáme, letos budou (snad) dvě.

JJ, co vím, tak se mají dodávky těchto tramvají rozjet naplno v roce 2010.

Zcela nový typ tříčlánkové nízkopodlažní tramvaje s osmi nápravami, shodné koncepce jako osvědčené tramvaje KT8D5. Na vozidle jsou ve velké míře použita konstrukční řešení z kratšího „sourozence" – tramvaje Vario LFR.E. Vario LF3 bylo poprvé představeno na výstavě Czech Raildays v červnu 2006. Před výstavou vůz úspěšně prošel množstvím technických zkoušek a ujel potřebný počet kilometrů ve zkušebním provozu bez cestujících. V srpnu 2006 jezdil na ostravských tratích ve zkušebním provozu s cestujícími a v říjnu 2006 byl zařazen do pravidelného provozu. Další vůz slouží v ostravské MHD od roku 2007.

Základní technické údaje
Délka skříně: 30 100 mm
Šířka skříně: 2 500 mm
Vzdálenost otočných čepů: 3 x 7 500 mm
Rozvor podvozků: 1 900 mm
Hmotnost prázdného vozu: 38 000 kg
Maximální rychlost: 65 km/hod
Počet míst k sezení/stání: 61/268



http://www.dpo.cz/vozy/img/v_variolf3_2.jpg
http://www.pragoimex.cz/i/Image/1IMG_1797.jpg
http://mhd-ostrava.ic.cz/fotky/IMG_3588.jpg
http://dividlo-ostrava.wz.cz/tram1.jpg
http://dividlo-ostrava.wz.cz/tram2.jpg
http://dividlo-ostrava.wz.cz/tram3.jpg
http://mhd-ostrava.ic.cz/fotky/3w.jpg

Very nice :cheers:. Ostrava's public transport is great!

http://mhd-ostrava.ic.cz/schema_tram_14_12_2008.PNG

Who is the manufacturer of this Ostrava tram?

Pragoimex :puke:

Pragoimex :puke:

Tyhle tramvaje se vyrábějí přímo v Ostravě pod dopravním podnikem v ústředních dílnách DPO v Ostravě - Martinově

To je složitější. Tramvaj je dílem Pragoimexu, kastle se vyrábí v Krnově, v Martinově probíhá až kompletace.

I thought Inekon had the tram workshops at Ostrava.

This is an outdated design, only 50% low floor, truly dated by 15T. I'm surprised Stadler isn't after them over copyright on the name "Vario"!

only 50% low floor, truly dated by 15T
well, the price is also 50% of 15T :) plus, VarioLF is based on thoroughly tested and proved technology (as opposed to the still very experimental 15T) - two important arguments for some transit agencies (also) here in CZ
nevertheless I do hope that 15T is going to be a success (not only because Prague already signed a contract for 250 pcs)

well, the price is also 50% of 15T :) plus, VarioLF is based on thoroughly tested and proved technology (as opposed to the still very experimental 15T) - two important arguments for some transit agencies (also) here in CZ
nevertheless I do hope that 15T is going to be a success (not only because Prague already signed a contract for 250 pcs)
Well Skoda seem confident don't they - fingers crossed!

I love the potential pricing formula: 50% LF is 50% the price, so you get discounts for sections of high floor. So @ 100% high floor you get the tram for free LOL! (if only :))

There is much increasing consumer resistance to any high floor in western countries now that any design with sections of high floor will be doomed in some markets. This is partly why Skoda is making such an effort.

narrow-gauge interurban tram route from Liberec to Jablonec (part I.)
WkhclBROYHU
:cheers: :cheers: :banana:
from http://kijfilm.blog.cz/

PWir0oNYtFk

Jen kdyby někdo nepoznal - v Praze červené tramvaje a v Ostravě modré :D

http://www.k-report.net/discus/nahledy/261795.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opoELEQXK4U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo7xJBkuF0g

is there any plan to make a tram connection between Levskeho an Nadraži Hostivar or to expand 11 or 18 to south? It looks that this part of city doesnt have a good connection with the center like the rest of the city .

And im interested what will be with trams when metro expand? i hope that tram will exist.

what's going on between sparta and hradčanska? i past there with tram in 2007.

and just one more question! XD

when will 15T drive on streets of Prague?

and just one more question! XD

when will 15T drive on streets of Prague?
If you mean on test - May.

what's going on between sparta and hradčanska? i past there with tram in 2007.
The great abyss of Prague, obviously :)
http://foto.ceskedalnice.cz/nase-foto/mof6/letecke/slides/02.jpg

is there any plan to make a tram connection between Levskeho an Nadraži Hostivar or to expand 11 or 18 to south? It looks that this part of city doesnt have a good connection with the center like the rest of the city .
red = line C, blue = planned line D, green = current tram tracks, black = proposed tram track
http://bobkovo.cz/img/ssc/090330/ssc_jih.jpg
There are also some vague plans for extension of the tram from Spořilov to Jižní Město, but that is probably a very distant future (if so).

And im interested what will be with trams when metro expand? i hope that tram will exist.
Currently there are no plans for abandonment of trams.

Shipments of Skoda's 19T to Wroclaw confirmed

Skoda is going to manufacture 28pcs of 19T trams for Polish Wroclaw (bidirectional variant of 16T). The value of the contract is approx. CZK 2bln.

source (in czech): http://ekonomika.ihned.cz/c1-36591880-skoda-doda-do-polska-dalsich-28-tramvaji-porsche

That makes up to ~70mln per tram, seems quite a lot to me, but probably it has to do with bidirectionality... Anyway, I'm really interested how the interior of the 19T will be organized, not much room in there already, more doors => less seats...

Will somebody be kind enough to explain to me in English what effect this will have on the Barrandov tram routes and for how long?

http://zpravy.idnes.cz/zacina-vyluka-na-smichove-tramvaje-mesic-neprojedou-f9p-/praha.asp?c=A090507_115618_praha_abr

The Google Translate translations give me a lot of laughs but aren't always helpful (yes I know I should be learning more Czech):

"Changes to tram lines

4
all connections go to Sídliště Repy
6
Angel in the field - Charles Square will be diverted via Palacký Square and Moráň
9
between angels and Lazarská go through Jiráskovo Square and Myslikova Street
12
Angel in the field - Malostranská go through Jiráskovo square Nár Theater and Old
13
will be extended from Laughter. station through the angel to Kotlářka in Residence Department. Barrandov - Laughter. station will operate only during peak working days
20
will be in the direction of Podbaba stop Újezd diverted
through the National Theater, Wenceslas Square, Main Station, and folds to Lime "

:nuts:

Here is perhaps a better plan:
http://www.dpp.cz/image-cache/max-800x600/2548-Andel-Ujezd-2009-mapka.jpg
http://www.dpp.cz/omezeni-dopravy/andel-ujezd-preruseni-provozu-tramvaji-linky-4-6-9-12-13-20/

Basically, route 12 will be detoured through Jiraskovo namesti and Staromestska, route 20 will not service Barrandov at all, instead route 13 will run on afternoon peak hours, too (and will be prolonged from Smichovske nadrazi to Kotlarka)
Duration: 8.5. - 5.6.
Hope that helps (are you coming for a visit? :))

Thanks isidor. Yes we are coming to live for two months, June and July. We have friends in Barrandov but I can see the detour will be finished 5 June. How long is the closure on Milady Horakove for - until the tunnel is finished?

The plans for closed tracks are following:
(please escuse the poor quality of my drawings... :lol:)
maps: black = trams, red = no service, green = metro A; original striped = railroad

till 1.7.: Prašný Most - Sparta + Hradčanská - Chotkovy sady
http://bobkovo.cz/img/ssc/090508-MO/mapa1.jpg

1.7.-1.11.: Prašný Most - Hradčanská - Chotkovy sady (basically just a regular turning loop added for lines 25 and 26); the railway should be also out of service since half of June.
http://bobkovo.cz/img/ssc/090508-MO/mapa2.jpg

1.11.-22.11.: Vítězné náměstí - Hradčanská (that's going to be fun); railway shut down till end of July.
http://bobkovo.cz/img/ssc/090508-MO/mapa3.jpg

22.11.-2010: Prašný Most - Hradčanská
http://bobkovo.cz/img/ssc/090508-MO/mapa4.jpg

Of course everything is a subject to change :)

Thanks Bobek_Azbest, you are a better source of information than DPP!

Forgive me asking because it's probably already discussed on this forum and I've forgotten, but what is the reason for these tramway and rail closures apart from the road tunnel?

(We only have family in that part of Prague so it doesn't matter if we are cut off - friends in Barrandov though that's a more serious matter :lol:)

I think that DPP would inform better, but there's one big difficulty with the construction of the City ring - probably every single scheduled date had been changed in the past (usually because of the stupid 'political' worries), so I can understand everyone is careful now about giving out any official info.

The tram track on Milady Horákové is closed just because the construction of the tunnel itself. The Svatovítská track ("phase" 3 on my maps) and the railroad are affected by the ring construction indirectly - there's the bridge from 1930's (or 1920's?) across the railroad; it's narrow and will be replaced by a wider one, which is necessary for the proper connection of the future Vítězné náměstí bypass and the City ring. And maybe even more importantly, the foundations of the new bridge need to be deeper because of the planned upgrade of the railway to Kladno and airport.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/Most_Svatovítská.jpg/800px-Most_Svatovítská.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6a/Svatovítská%2C_most_(01).jpg/800px-Svatovítská%2C_most_(01).jpg

Thanks Bobek_Azbest.

Heeeyyy How are you guysss??????

What about a non-spam post?

Škoda 15T test runs in Pilsen video:
a9_lpgiadbM

How many tram lines were built during the latest years? Do you have any Statistics about it?

Just an observation from standing on a corner at Jugoslavska this morning indulging myself with the endless parade of Prague trams, the 14T is much better looking in real life than in pixs. Previously I didn't like the styling - now I think I do. How beautifully the trams are maintained! Hard to see a daggy tram anywhere.

You have such a beautiful historic yet modern functioning city Praguers, you should be proud.

How many tram lines were built during the latest years? Do you have any Statistics about it?

You can read the Railway Market - CEE report on CEE tram developments in the issue 1/09.

For example in Brno the newest expansion opened in 2008 linking the technical museum with Kralove Poli.

Plans are to extend lines in Olomouc, Liberec, Ostrava, Prague (lots).

www.railwaymarket.eu

historyworks:

So, welcome in Czech republic. And thanks for compliments.

The extension plans in Liberec are being realized now. The 1st phase of Fügnerova - Rochlice, Dobiášova track, Fügnerova-Mlýnská, is in construction. The Fügnerova-Vratislavice route is operated by buses from now to the end of September.
However, the building process is terribly slow, first trams to Rochlice should operate at the end of 2013... 4 years for about 3 kilometers... :ohno: Well, better than nothing.

Track map (http://maps.google.cz/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=cs&source=embed&msa=0&msid=105365837091576777428.000461b54c2aa4761b610&ll=50.763119,15.05805&spn=0.026602,0.077248&z=14)

4 years for about 3 kilometers... :ohno: Well, better than nothing.
Thanks! But it's better than closing of some tram lines. For example in Silesia in Poland. I suppose you know what I am talking about.
And what about other towns?

Yes, I know. For example Gliwice in these days... :ohno:
The other towns:

Plzeň: The construction of track Bory - Western Bohemia University is now being prepared. I think it should start in about a year.

Olomouc: Track from the center to Povel. It's a longstanding problem, mostly because of too small tram depot. The construction isn't about to start now...

Prague: Don't know exactly... many projects by now. AFAIK about 30 kilometers of new tracks are now planned there. The planned track Kobylisy - Bohnice is the most relevant of them.

Brno, Ostrava: ???
I don't know about any plans, I personally think networks in these towns are quite complete...

Most & Litvínov: Nothing planned now.

Prague: till 2013 there will be several new lines - in Barrandov, from Pocernicka to Siliste Malesice, from Podbaba to Suchodol (to CD station, opertional from 2010).

In Most-Litvinov a dual system tram line from Most to Zatec is planned to be operational by 2011.

In Plzen - an extension of line in Bory district is being considered.

Again - I reccomend Railway Market - CEE Review report on CEE trams!

Brno - plans of North - South cross city rapid tram line with underground section.

Ostrava - a planned tram line from N. Karolina to the center.

And Regiotram Nisa finally calls for some action...

Oh.. maybe the Ostrava plan could be real, but that rapid line in Brno is a kind of sci-fi... :)

Regiotram Nisa is totally dead. It was a mere vision from the start....

Brno - plans of North - South cross city rapid tram line with underground section.

Ostrava - a planned tram line from N. Karolina to the center.
Thanks for this information. I visited that web-site, but unfortunately I couldn't find any articles for myself. So I decided to ask my question again.

Prague: till 2013 there will be several new lines - in Barrandov, from Pocernicka to Siliste Malesice, from Podbaba to Suchodol (to CD station, opertional from 2010).

If one of these will be completed in 2013, I'm going to call it a success. :hahano:

If one of these will be completed in 2013, I'm going to call it a success. :hahano:

That's the case for all CEE infrastructure investments (vide Warsaw metro line 1 and 2) ; )

Don't overidealize our country :lol:

Don't overidealize our country :lol:
Is it possible to overidealise a run-down third-world country? :lol:

Apparently yes, but I don't get it much... :lol:

I have found various document about new line for Prague untill 2015 but there's only one map but it's small Can anyone put here big map for extensions pleaseeee.

According to this article, Škoda is still in Toronto tender http://logistika.ihned.cz/c4-10002800-28180820-B00000_d-skoda-chce-koupit-vyrobce-v-cizine
Škoda at InnoTrans in Berlin http://www.skoda.cz/holding/novinky/skupina-transportation-zaujala-na-svetovem-veletrhu-innotrans-aid2710.html
http://www.skoda.cz/images/1602.jpg
C´est Skoda, mais... son modele?

Ca c´est modele d´autobus Skoda, je pense. Probablement c´est a l´exposition, mais sais pas a la quelle :)

A railbus :)

Skoda 15T has synchronus motors is this good or bad?
Are asynchronus motors better?

C´est Skoda, mais... son modele?
C'est un tramway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0koda_15_T). L'exposition est Innotrans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innotrans) a Berlin, septembre 2008.

Skoda 15T has synchronus motors is this good or bad?
From what I know (only a hearsay, I'm no expert here), this particular application (small agile engines which individually propell each wheel) synchronous engines with permanent magnet suit best. Such engines are also a preffered option to power electromobiles because of their ability to change torque/rounds (and subsequently accelerate/decelerate the vehicle) on a short notice. Exactly what a good streetcar needs. But again I warn I'm no expert, hope someone can bring a better explanation.

In English it's a tram HiRazor. A tramway is the two parallel shiny steel things in the ground wot the tram runs on. :)

Je sais, mais en francais c'est un tramway (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tramway). And the question I answered was asked in French. And so was my reply ;).