My mom & sis had recently been to DEL. They wanted to travel on 9W but couldn't because there was no ticket available for many consecutive days. The travel agent told that most people who bought ticket to DEL were workers travelling onward to LHR/various Middle East destinations. With so many ME carriers operating in DAC, why do they travel via DEL?

However, my mom & sis took BG. They and a few other women were given seats in F class despite having economy ticket because the economy class of the 738 was packed with Indian workers travelling from SIN/KUL to DEL via DAC. Why are Bangladeshi workers travelling on 9W & Indian workers on BG?

1. The Bangladeshi workers take 9W mostly for their outbound trip from DAC because they do offer a good competitive fare, even when compared with EK, EY, QR.

2. The Indian workers take BG for their flights to India primarily because of the baggage allowance BG offers, which is absurd to expect from any other carrier without paying the penalties.

Since BG started using the leased 737-800s to KUL and and SIN, they've got their whole game screwed up. The reason why these workers take BG despite all the pain is the extremely liberal baggage allowance BG offers. Since they've deployed the 738, it can only take 150 pax (instead of 189) and their baggage and no revenue cargo, meaning they're leaving back about 20 tons of cargo on avg every flight. Biman can't avoid allowing the baggage as liberally as it does, and it is yet another example of pathetic planning on Biman's part to deploy the aircraft in a market where it doesn't fit!

http://www.thedailystar.net/photo/2008/11/24/2008-11-24__bus01.jpg
Travel agents have urged the British Airways (BA) authorities to reconsider its Dhaka-London flights suspension decision, saying the airline has a huge business opportunity here.

The Association of Travel Agents of Bangladesh (ATAB) in a letter on November 20 written to Willie Walsh, BA chief executive officer, made the plea.

The association will also give a copy of the letter to the civil aviation ministry so it can lobby between the two governments for withdrawal of the BA decision.

ATAB also disagreed with the BA on non-profitability on the route, which has pushed the only European carrier in Bangladesh to suspend its operation from March 28 next year.

“We are disappointed to know by the local BA management that it will discontinue operating direct flights between Dhaka and London,” said ATAB President MA Muhaimin Saleh.

The airline often cannot meet all the seat demands, he said.

In the letter, Muhaimin said: “I am assuring you that we will send all your flights full even if you increase your frequency to five or seven a week from the current three.”

The BA took the flight suspension decision at a time when Bangladesh's economy was growing constantly by over 6 percent for the past consecutive three years.

BA has a big network and global image, which the travel agents believe would impact Bangladesh negatively as no other airlines have direct non-stop Dhaka-London flight.

BA's South Asia office in an announcement early this month said it would suspend Dhaka-London passenger flights from March 28, 2009 because of non-profitability on the route.

But ATAB opposed the BA's view on non-profitability and the idea that using the same aircraft on a different route would yield more profit.

“The fares are not lower but competitive, both the premium and economy cabins go full and the operational costs could be lower because of lower crew lay over and employee costs,” the letter said.

“BA has a huge demand in Bangladesh. Some 750 reservations were made in a single day after travel agents withdrew boycotting sale of BA tickets,” Muhaimin said.

ATAB boycotted BA's ticket sale at a row for 16 months from April 2007 to August 2008.

BA officials in Bangladesh also echoed the ATAB on the profitability issue.

“We have always performed better than the targets set by the BA authorities,” an employee of the airline said requesting anonymity.

He said BA had 50 percent occupancy rate even during the ATAB boycott. "Normally it is over 80 percent."

BA has 45 Bangladeshi employees, including crew, who will be given voluntary retirement if the airline sticks to its route suspension decision.

BA uses a Boeing 777 carrier for Dhaka-London route. The aircraft has 272 seats, including 212 economy, 24 world travelers plus and 36 business class seats.

According to officials, an economy class ticket (return) costs Tk 75,000-80,000, while world travelers plus Tk 100,000 and business class Tk 140,000.

BA, which has been operating flights to and from Bangladesh since mid-1970s, now runs three flights a week on Dhaka-London route.

http://www.thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=64650

http://www.thedailystar.net/photo/2008/11/24/2008-11-24__bus01.jpg
Travel agents have urged the British Airways (BA) authorities to reconsider its Dhaka-London flights suspension decision, saying the airline has a huge business opportunity here.
......

http://www.thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=64650

ATAB and/or whoever are lobbying BA, should present them with hard data that counter's BA's argument for suspension of the route. And if they do not bite, they ought to lobby other British carriers like BMI, Virgin to open service to DAC.

In the letter, Muhaimin said: “I am assuring you that we will send all your flights full even if you increase your frequency to five or seven a week from the current three.”...But ATAB opposed the BA's view on non-profitability and the idea that using the same aircraft on a different route would yield more profit...ATAB boycotted BA's ticket sale at a row for 16 months from April 2007 to August 2008.

http://www.thedailystar.net/story.php?nid=64650

This same man led (read: compelled) all travel agents in Bangladesh to stop selling BA tickets, as stated in the report and is now weeping to woo BA to continue its service...by going to the extent of guaranteeing 100% load factors even if BA sent their 777s 7 days/week! This ought to be the craziest letter for Mr. Walsh to receive!!

Through those 16 months of boycott resulting from the BA decision to cut agent's commissions, ATAB members did everything they could to promote alternative carriers on the DAC-LHR route and now it's a little too late!

BA actually has better routes to put these aircraft on which will generate better yields...DXB for example, where BA will be further increasing their weekly frequencies from 20 to 24 from January '09 (including 14x weekly 777 service). BA's decision to suspend services to DAC & CCU is partly driven by the enactment of open-skies between the UK & US, since these points fed a significant number of pax to BA for onward travel to the US through their Oneworld partner AA. With the open-skies in place, a majority of these pax will now choose to fly on other carriers onward to the US through other points in Europe, thus depriving BA of the feeding load factor from DAC & CCU.

1. The Bangladeshi workers take 9W mostly for their outbound trip from DAC because they do offer a good competitive fare, even when compared with EK, EY, QR.

2. The Indian workers take BG for their flights to India primarily because of the baggage allowance BG offers, which is absurd to expect from any other carrier without paying the penalties.
......


So 9W has good load factor on DEL-DAC-DEL?

The same must be true for SIN-DAC. Few years back I was waiting for a flight at Changi, where I saw a large Sardar (as in Sikh) crowd waiting for a BG flight from DAC with final destination of DEL. All of them lived in Singapore.

This same man led (read: compelled) all travel agents in Bangladesh to stop selling BA tickets, as stated in the report and is now weeping to woo BA to continue its service...by going to the extent of guaranteeing 100% load factors even if BA sent their 777s 7 days/week! This ought to be the craziest letter for Mr. Walsh to receive!!

Through those 16 months of boycott resulting from the BA decision to cut agent's commissions, ATAB members did everything they could to promote alternative carriers on the DAC-LHR route and now it's a little too late!

Ah, wasn't aware of that. It is like cutting your nose inspite of your face! That ought to be an object lesson to these folks that their goons like tactics do not bear fruit everywhere like their are so accustomed to mete out to GoB and such entities. Major airlines, local and foreign, have pared down travel agent's commission, here in the US, over the years, and the ASTA could do nothing but accept the fate.


BA actually has better routes to put these aircraft on which will generate better yields...DXB for example, where BA will be further increasing their weekly frequencies from 20 to 24 from January '09 (including 14x weekly 777 service). BA's decision to suspend services to DAC & CCU is partly driven by the enactment of open-skies between the UK & US, since these points fed a significant number of pax to BA for onward travel to the US through their Oneworld partner AA. With the open-skies in place, a majority of these pax will now choose to fly on other carriers onward to the US through other points in Europe, thus depriving BA of the feeding load factor from DAC & CCU.

This is with the assumption that BA shall continue to enjoy high load factors from (to) all US destinations. What makes BA so confident that they shall have nearly sold out seats on all flights ex DXB, and therfore increase the frequencies? To my mind, there isn't a carrier that doesn't fly to DXB, especially the Europeans. So what holds sway for BA, over all others?

....
Since BG started using the leased 737-800s to KUL and and SIN, they've got their whole game screwed up. The reason why these workers take BG despite all the pain is the extremely liberal baggage allowance BG offers. Since they've deployed the 738, it can only take 150 pax (instead of 189) and their baggage and no revenue cargo, meaning they're leaving back about 20 tons of cargo on avg every flight. Biman can't avoid allowing the baggage as liberally as it does, and it is yet another example of pathetic planning on Biman's part to deploy the aircraft in a market where it doesn't fit!

What is the free allowance by BG? Are you suggesting they should use the A310s or the Diesels?

Ah, wasn't aware of that. It is like cutting your nose inspite of your face! That ought to be an object lesson to these folks that their goons like tactics do not bear fruit everywhere like their are so accustomed to mete out to GoB and such entities. Major airlines, local and foreign, have pared down travel agent's commission, here in the US, over the years, and the ASTA could do nothing but accept the fate.

This is with the assumption that BA shall continue to enjoy high load factors from (to) all US destinations. What makes BA so confident that they shall have nearly sold out seats on all flights ex DXB, and therfore increase the frequencies? To my mind, there isn't a carrier that doesn't fly to DXB, especially the Europeans. So what holds sway for BA, over all others?

The fundamental essence of e-commerce in airline business is to reduce the airlines' dependencies on travel agents, and hence cut costs. The travel agents will either have to be innovative to offer services to lure pax to keep buying tickets through them, or move on and do some other kinda business. If this isn't simple and straightforward enough for them to comprehend, I can't imagine what is!

As for BA's prospects in the DXB market, it essentially lies in the region's growth potentials and the fact that the prospects of selling premium seats with comparatively higher yields is likely to make BA more money than from routes like CCU and DAC. Again, BA's prospects in the DXB market is quite strongly reliant on its participation in the Oneworld network, which should feed a steady flow of premium pax.

What is the free allowance by BG? Are you suggesting they should use the A310s or the Diesels?

The free allowance on BG is practically as much as you can be lucky enough to get on the plane with, but generally not any less than 80 kgs to/from points carrying the workers. These people often have carry-on baggage weighing 40-odd kgs, with another 60-80 kgs to check-in, and BG ought to allow it because it otherwise delivers a crap product to pay for. Believe you me, by even operating the DC-10s or the A310s to SIN and KUL, BG was having a far better net income than they're doing with these 737-800s leaving behind the revenue cargo...and 20-odd tons each flight is a lot to let go!

Thats why they should have had A320's with the ULD Cans :)

:spam1:

Spam meat?

Ah, wasn't aware of that. It is like cutting your nose inspite of your face! That ought to be an object lesson to these folks that their goons like tactics do not bear fruit everywhere like their are so accustomed to mete out to GoB and such entities. Major airlines, local and foreign, have pared down travel agent's commission, here in the US, over the years, and the ASTA could do nothing but accept the fate.



This is with the assumption that BA shall continue to enjoy high load factors from (to) all US destinations. What makes BA so confident that they shall have nearly sold out seats on all flights ex DXB, and therfore increase the frequencies? To my mind, there isn't a carrier that doesn't fly to DXB, especially the Europeans. So what holds sway for BA, over all others?


A) BA is well known, and generally well liked

B) It offers a far better premium product and the lesser extend economy than most airlines

A) BA is well known, and generally well liked

B) It offers a far better premium product and the lesser extend economy than most airlines

I don't know about F & J class, but I found both EK and SQ to provide a superior Y class service than BA. But then EK and SQ's North American network isn't as extensive as BA's (principally their gateway cities). Also, EK and SQ is hardly known in these parts while everybody knows BA.

While I haven't flown BA in ages, I didn't find their service anything to write home about.

Hello,

Well I had a few hours up my sleeve thanks to transit..... Well I ran a cost structure using two BAe 41 [29seat] aircraft

Anyone interested in seeing the figures?

So 9W has good load factor on DEL-DAC-DEL?

The same must be true for SIN-DAC. Few years back I was waiting for a flight at Changi, where I saw a large Sardar (as in Sikh) crowd waiting for a BG flight from DAC with final destination of DEL. All of them lived in Singapore.

9W has 100% load factor on almost every DEL-DAC-DEL flight. After deboarding the plane at DEL I feel a tinge in the heart when I see a huge bunch of fellow passengers being lead by 9W staff to transit lounge & from there to a waiting B777-300ER which takes them to LHR.:moods:

And yes, most Indians travelling from SIN/KUL/BKK to DEL via DAC are gigantic Sardarjis who have so much body odour make so much noise that the economy class of BG 738's become a fish market (or Punjabi Sardarji market?).

ATAB and/or whoever are lobbying BA, should present them with hard data that counter's BA's argument for suspension of the route. And if they do not bite, they ought to lobby other British carriers like BMI, Virgin to open service to DAC.

Virgin's aircrafts have the following seat configuration:

Airbus A340-300: 240 (34/35/171) [Exit from service: 2011]
Airbus A340-600: 308 (45/38/225)
Boeing 747-400: 452 (14/58/380)
451 (14/58/379)
344 (54/62/228)

VS A346 & B744 both have more seats than BA B777 (272 seats). If BA can't fill it up then VS can't either. And if BA can make more profit with that plane on other routes then VS can too. A343 has 171 economy seats compared to 212 of 777, so I don't think it will be deployed to DAC. So I don't see any chance of VS getting into DAC.
Tell that travel agent not to write letters to Richard Branson!

Thats why they should have had A320's with the ULD Cans :)

Still wouldn't do it...you just can't allow 100 kgs+ baggage for each of the 150+ pax and still be able to take any of the available rev cargo on either the B737s or the A320s.

Pax baggage wouldn't mind to be at the bulk area and volume-wise the A320 offers 37.4 cubic metres of space compared to 44 cubic metres on the 737-800. Payload-wise too, the A320 will take 2,220 kgs compared to 3,186 kgs on the 737-800.

VS A346 & B744 both have more seats than BA B777 (272 seats). If BA can't fill it up then VS can't either. And if BA can make more profit with that plane on other routes then VS can too. A343 has 171 economy seats compared to 212 of 777, so I don't think it will be deployed to DAC. So I don't see any chance of VS getting into DAC.
Tell that travel agent not to write letters to Richard Branson!

BA and VS are two airlines with very little in common (except for being British!) and they don't need the same reasons to or not to operate in any given market.

Still wouldn't do it...you just can't allow 100 kgs+ baggage for each of the 150+ pax and still be able to take any of the available rev cargo on either the B737s or the A320s.

Pax baggage wouldn't mind to be at the bulk area and volume-wise the A320 offers 37.4 cubic metres of space compared to 44 cubic metres on the 737-800. Payload-wise too, the A320 will take 2,220 kgs compared to 3,186 kgs on the 737-800.

sorry should have said, if they cant take the freight using ULD cans would be easy tranfering to other a.c

sorry should have said, if they cant take the freight using ULD cans would be easy tranfering to other a.c

It is more of a weight issue than a volume issue...ULD or no ULD isn't of much significance. They've got to find a way to restrict baggage weights (which will be difficult) or pull the 737s out of KUL and SIN and any other market focusing on the workers.

It is more of a weight issue than a volume issue...ULD or no ULD isn't of much significance. They've got to find a way to restrict baggage weights (which will be difficult) or pull the 737s out of KUL and SIN and any other market focusing on the workers.

How about a C5A Galaxy? The pax could sit on benches! :lol:

How about a C5A Galaxy? The pax could sit on benches! :lol:

Eureka! Eureka!! And I don't even have a darn bathtub to jump out of in joy!!!

That's a splendid idea...and you should pitch it to Biman...and do it quick...cuz I can't wait to get my ass on-board a Galaxy...it's gonna be a once in a lifetime opportunity!!!

Seems this was not on its way to Bangladesh as

Exported To: KENYA 2008-11-21

Sorry

Tony

PLEASE GIVE YOUR INPUT

I have received a request to open a third Aviation thread and to retire this one, as it has now exceeded 2000 posts. Is this agreeable with the regulars here? If so, I will do so later tonight after I get back from work. Of course, any of you are welcome to start the new thread yourselves, and I would just shut this one down afterwards.

I agree, a fresh one :cheers:

Seems this was not on its way to Bangladesh as

Exported To: KENYA 2008-11-21

Sorry

Tony


Hi Tony,

I thought this was the case but didnt want to cause a fuss,

PLEASE GIVE YOUR INPUT

I have received a request to open a third Aviation thread and to retire this one, as it has now exceeded 2000 posts. Is this agreeable with the regulars here? If so, I will do so later tonight after I get back from work. Of course, any of you are welcome to start the new thread yourselves, and I would just shut this one down afterwards.

We should start a new thread when the pages reaches 50, 100 pages is too long.

PLEASE GIVE YOUR INPUT

I have received a request to open a third Aviation thread and to retire this one, as it has now exceeded 2000 posts. Is this agreeable with the regulars here? If so, I will do so later tonight after I get back from work. Of course, any of you are welcome to start the new thread yourselves, and I would just shut this one down afterwards.

I wouldn't mind a new thread, but would prefer you/Tmac (i.e. the original creators) to go ahead and do it and carry it on...and we all will be right behind you!

I wouldn't mind a new thread, but would prefer you/Tmac (i.e. the original creators) to go ahead and do it and carry it on...and we all will be right behind you!

Its up Bangladesh Aviation - Part 3 @ http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=755472

Tan you should now lock this thread.