What do you think is the best street layout? I'll start with some examples.

1. Large maze grid, major throughfares, quiet streets within.
http://i30.tinypic.com/jzfxb8.jpg

2. Classic grid, fine maze, freeways needed because of number of intersections
http://i28.tinypic.com/14292xw.jpg

3. Medium density suburban sprawl, no logical street pattern.
http://i32.tinypic.com/55s220.jpg

4. Rural city (Houston city proper)
http://i27.tinypic.com/2e3abyd.jpg

5. Classic rectangular grid
http://i32.tinypic.com/fk36n5.jpg

6. Dutch style, lot of dead ends.
http://i29.tinypic.com/2dw9l5e.jpg

I personally prefer the first one with a decent density.

I prefer only the illogical street pattern, I find planned layouts boring. But Chris, by "illogical street pattern" you only have "medium density suburban sprawl" (#3), what about illogical street pattern in cities themselves, not suburbs? Most Austro-Hungarian cities are built like that and that's what I like. Here's one such example, the center of my city, Ljubljana:

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee119/Verso1/Ljubljana-center.jpg

:cheers:

In terms of efficiency - #1
In terms of looking nice - Barcelona style

Toronto is built largely like #1, and it seems to work quite well. The distance between major streets in the grid is usually around 2km, so it's easy to estimate distances by counting the number of such blocks one needs to drive. Of course, in the downtown core the distances become much smaller, so you end up having sometimes 200m between "major" streets, which resembles more the layout of #2, although they are rarely as large as the major streets uptown. This format is typical of many North American cities.

The suburbs are more varied, although (at least the ones around Toronto) they still follow the format of #1, except that the inner low-density residential streets do not follow any patterns, and can sometimes be winding and going in circles.

Hartford is #2, mostly gridded. Works well, because it makes it easy to find locations faster.

BTW: That pic of Houston makes me happy that we have zoning laws here. :crazy:

Australian cicites are a combination of #1 and #3. Melbourne is built mainly on a grid of roads. However, housing estates built in last twenty years or so follow the pattern set out in photo 3.

I like the layout of Australian cities and towns; it is simpler to find your way around town. In contrast, I'm not a big fan of street layouts in English cities and towns.

I grew up in an area like #2. And I still find it the best. If you ever get lost or take a wrong turn, just turn right 3 times and you'll be back on your original street. And it's easier to walk to places since everything is evenly spaced (for the most part).

My neighborhood:

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/2606/garfieldridge2kd9.jpg

BTW: That pic of Houston makes me happy that we have zoning laws here. :crazy:

Yeah, Houston is quite a mess. The city takes up an unnecessary large area.

My part of Durban (Kloof) follows the illogical street pattern. Given the very hilly nature of the area (and of Durban generally), there's no real alternative.

Planned cities look very boring. Much prefer the illogical street pattern.

Crazy street pattern in Cape Coral, Florida:
http://i35.tinypic.com/28svuhc.jpg

This surely scares off aliens:
http://i35.tinypic.com/2bs3fr.jpg

#1 because it allows through traffic to move efficiently and keeps it off of residential streets where children play.

#1 because it allows through traffic to move efficiently

i thought the exact opposite.
Los Angeles is largely built like that... hundreds of residential streets dump into one large "artery" road and builds up congestion extremely fast.

the grid is the most efficient and works best IMO.. who cares if its boring, how often are you up in the air looking down on it? A good combination of the grid and number streets/avenues makes it very easy to figure out how far away you are from an address... or even which direction or how to get there... all by just reciting the address.

i thought the exact opposite.
Los Angeles is largely built like that... hundreds of residential streets dump into one large "artery" road and builds up congestion extremely fast.

the grid is the most efficient and works best IMO.. who cares if its boring, how often are you up in the air looking down on it? A good combination of the grid and number streets/avenues makes it very easy to figure out how far away you are from an address... or even which direction or how to get there... all by just reciting the address.

Maintaining a dense grid is cost prohibitive once you reach the less dense and far flung suburbs and outer city limits.

I don't want homes to abut highly travelled commuter thoroughfares.

Besides, option #1 is still a grid, meaning there are multiple routes going in a given direction.

I am not fond of ANY of these planned street patterns.
What you call "illogical", and what is almost exclusive in Hungary (and in Europe) we tend to call "grown" cities, that just grew more or less spontaniously. There may be some "planned" sections from time to time, but they also become integrated in the original texture. I think almost all of us prefer this here.

The last two pics are just crazy. Where's the last one?

Classic grid rocks!

The others are look like Labyrinth and waste of gas.

Chicago grid. I love it, you can't ever get lost. With all the trees on the road, it isn't really "boring". You can't see more than a few blocks down the road cause of the traffic and trees along the side.

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f385/Candrson/me%202/1-24.jpg

The last two pics are just crazy. Where's the last one?

I'd say in Rotonda (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotonda)
:crazy:

Ciudad de México horror :)
http://shrani.si/f/10/12z/3sewXXnP/mex.jpg

This surely scares off aliens:
http://i35.tinypic.com/2bs3fr.jpg


Rotonda in Spanish means Roundabout :crazy:

^^ In Dutch it's "Rotonde" quite close :D

Rotonda in Spanish means Roundabout :crazy:

In Italian too

We call it "Dönel Kavşak".

BTW What happened to eighth of the Rotonda?

The thing about Zoning By-Laws are that they are designed to be broken. In Ontario we have the extra luxury of a separate court just for planning issues.

Also I prefer street layout 1, but also 2. 1 works with vehicles because there are limited cross streets, whereas 2 is more pedestrian friendly, IMO

My preference is for something like how Paris' streets are laid out. You get the best of all worlds:

1) Large straight boulevard for through traffic

2) No real grid pattern, which means it doesn't get repetitive and boring

3) Plenty of back-streets to offer alternatives to the main arterial routes

4) Great sight-lines for tourists.

Or best yet, something like Venice where you have no cars at all.

This dutch suburb is pretty odd looking as well:
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/5139/dutchsuburbpt1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Yeah that's Amersfoort. Not really a suburb, it's all part of the city proper. Those old names used to be separate villages. Amersfoort is a fast growing city to handle the population growth and demographic shift in the Randstad. Too bad the road system didn't catched up at all.

Those Dutch communities look incredible. Planned to the detail, as if the map was drawn precisely on paper before building.

What I hear often from colleagues and others is that Dutch suburbs are too urban planners-minded, and the traffic engineers are introduced in the stage where it's already too late to make fundamental traffic changes, so most Dutch suburban area's that are from the 1990's and later have a less than optimum traffic circulation.

This varies from parking to road width to integration in the existing road system.

Living in such a suburb myself, there were some fundamental mistakes (in my opinion). North and South Stadshagen are not very good integrated (no connecting streets between both area's), and there is a lack of parking space in some area's. (1.5 parking space per home, while 1.8 is better with current demographia). They've corrected that somewhat in the newer hoods.

http://i33.tinypic.com/msktgk.jpg

Houten, a planned suburb of Utrecht. The city has a one lane ringroad, and the neighborhoods are only accessible from this ringroad, you cannot drive from one hood to another. This results in high bicycle usage, which is a good thing, but Houten commuters usually drive to work, which can be a pain in the ass. Forumer Frits lives here and I often hear horror stories about the delays he experiences.
http://i37.tinypic.com/2a7h5c2.jpg

Does anybody know what this is? It's Horizon City, just east of El Paso, Texas. The area is about 20km/13 miles across. There seems to be streets, however the (fairly recent) imagery shows nothing.

http://i38.tinypic.com/zvrmns.jpg

Maybe they built the entire city in a few years.

Does anybody know what this is? It's Horizon City, just east of El Paso, Texas. The area is about 20km/13 miles across. There seems to be streets, however the (fairly recent) imagery shows nothing.

http://i38.tinypic.com/zvrmns.jpg

I've looked into this and it turns out that if you'll look closely you can see unpaved dirt roads along the white lines. I think they are planning an urban expansion and have already marked the street layout.

Yeah, but this is quite huge. Almost the same size as El Paso.

In Texas everything is possible, Chris :D

^^ No no, "In Texas, everything is bigger". Or better: "Texas is bigger than France" They're quite proud of that. :D

Houten, a planned suburb of Utrecht. The city has a one lane ringroad, and the neighborhoods are only accessible from this ringroad, you cannot drive from one hood to another. This results in high bicycle usage, which is a good thing, but Houten commuters usually drive to work, which can be a pain in the ass. Forumer Frits lives here and I often hear horror stories about the delays he experiences.

Sounds pretty scary to me. What if someone needs urgent medical assistance, or if a fire catches up somewhere?

^^It's not that bad, the emergency services can reach every street within 5-10 minutes via the ringroad.

I favour a combination of 1 and 2.

i prefer the parallel lines
http://www.aaccessmaps.com/images/maps/us/ny/manhattan_midtown/manhattan_midtown.gif

I did mention earlier in this thread that my part of town has a completely illogical street pattern due to the hilly nature of the area.

Here's proof. :)

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l116/ron2k-za/misc/kloof.jpg

(The M13 is the only main road in the area, being a 2x2 freeway. As you can imagine, it gets very choked up during rush hour. Due to the presence of an escarpment (you can see where the M13 goes down said escarpment at the bottom right of the pic), there's no access to the N3.)

Great thread guys! American urbanism ideas really impress me but I am a patriot enough to feel good in illogical order as well :) Verso already showed image of Ljubljana, and I like it pretty much that way though the traffic often goes slowly..

Now, I check Horizon City area street view images. They are planning the whole city, I guess. Look what I found. First house is already under construction, and it's in the middle of nowhere, just plain sand and desert bushes. Man those construction workers must be bored :D

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/9016/americanhood3ys1.jpg

This dutch suburb is pretty odd looking as well:
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/5139/dutchsuburbpt1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Looks nice

One house, Dejko? What about privacy? :D

I would prefer a mixed layout for my ideal kind of a city.

1. The highway system should be radial & circumferential, for urban-centric circulation.
2. For the business core, a grid would be best to maximize transport capacity.
3. For medium to high density residential or mixed-use areas, a combination of grid and irregular, wherere where thru traffic is reduced to some extent.
4. For low-density areas, a "Dutch style" network w/lots of culs-de-sac deadends to encourage localized neighborhoods.

Also, for main roads, I think rotundas are better than traffic lights. They require greater driving skill, but keep the traffic flowing.

^^ Rotunda?

Roundabouts. Sometimes called rotories.

Roundabouts. Sometimes called rotories.
Roundabouts, rotories or Rotundas are almost in all France.