Indian Railways - Projects | News | Discussions [Archive] - Page 4

ARUNAVA_DEY

July 3rd, 2009, 11:53 PM

It's not Turant , it's Duronto Express , which simply means ferocious.

Or likewise, Duronto , bengali way of spelling Duranth can be , [ Durr(distance) + Aanth(End) ]thereby meaning " bringing an end to distance ".

Since it was announced today only , various news sources are having some confusion over the correct spelling . As always to know the authentic truth , rely only on official Indian Railways Budget Highlights page here http://www.indianrailways.gov.in/Budget_2009-10/Speech_English_2009-10_Highlight.pdf

The Howrah-New Delhi Rajdhani takes around 16 hr & 35 mins to reach Delhi from Howrah ( 1441 km) In many sections this Rajdhani does about 130 km/hr to 140km/hr max , but since it has to stop at several major stations , momentum is lost & the overall average speed comes down significantly to about 87-90 km/hr . But here, it has already been speculated that this Duronto Express will take exactly 10 hrs to reach Delhi from Howrah , a cut of six n half hrs , hence by all calculations these 12 Duronto Trains will do a constant 145km/hr all throughout their course without halting anywhere . Sounds not that bad to me. Par humara desh ittni badi hai , Durr ka Aanth karne ke liye sayad aur kuch kadam agge barna parega . Nevertheless moving in the right direction . Jai Hind .

barrykul

July 4th, 2009, 12:20 AM

Another soporific budget with most of the stuff standard bs. Time to run the IR as a business entity with Govt only in the business of ownership/corporate control. Glancing through the pdf, one wonders whether a multi-billion dollar / 10s of thousands of crores business is being held hostage to the whims and fancies of politicians. The whole speech is geared towards helping poor, women, students, pay hikes, increasing a train service here and there and glorious heights in statistical data achievement by the sundry workshops of IR. What a bore. Meanwhile the entire service structure is based on some bygone era junk pile that operates badly fashioned steel monstrosities called IR railways, flitting back and forth from crumbling railway stations. The eternal gauge conversion project ambles along at slow pace, electrification is progressing at molasses pace. A politician is worried about Janata Khana or signboards or some other trivial stuff which simply should be left to pros with tight feedback from the user base. Instead of seeing charts and graphs we see dull boring numbers. There is no mention of user surveys or six sigma goals or pictures about modern stuff. Nothing visionary either. Does anyone in IR visit another country and see how things are operated.

I want to see honesty for a change, someone who will come in and say enough is enough. We need to radically change the image of IR. Henceforth the gauge conversion project will be completed in 2-3 yrs, electrification of all lines in 2-3 yrs. All railway stations in the nation with be upgraded to world class standards. Complete independent autonomy given at the lowest unit level of control to achieve the goals in the 2-3 yrs. They will come up with a plan that best suits their locale, have design contests for the best, private contractors will bid for the work. All service goals for consumers/travelers will be rated on global standards, with independent reviews. This includes food, signage, promptness, ticket selling, toilets, convenience stalls, etc. The entire IR workshop will be re-tooled to world standards of six sigma / ISO whatever. A national competition will generate the best railway train, engine, carriage. The goal is to have good suspension, good aerodynamic sleek design, an average high speed in 200 mph range, good interior comforts, etc. Railways will come up with a modern signaling system that can operate such high speeds trains efficiently and reliably. IR will be managed by professional managers who will guide the IR board on compensation, hiring/retention, metrics/monitoring, profits/loss statements, balance sheets etc. Mr Elattuvalapil Sreedharan will be CEO of IR for a period of 4 yrs. End of speech. Jai Hind.

ir desi

July 4th, 2009, 12:53 AM

ARUNAVA_DEY

July 4th, 2009, 01:38 AM

I want to see honesty for a change, someone who will come in and say enough is enough. We need to radically change the image of IR. Henceforth the gauge conversion project will be completed in 2-3 yrs, electrification of all lines in 2-3 yrs. All railway stations in the nation with be upgraded to world class standards. Complete independent autonomy given at the lowest unit level of control to achieve the goals in the 2-3 yrs. They will come up with a plan that best suits their locale, have design contests for the best, private contractors will bid for the work. All service goals for consumers/travelers will be rated on global standards, with independent reviews. This includes food, signage, promptness, ticket selling, toilets, convenience stalls, etc. The entire IR workshop will be re-tooled to world standards of six sigma / ISO whatever. A national competition will generate the best railway train, engine, carriage. The goal is to have good suspension, good aerodynamic sleek design, an average high speed in 200 mph range, good interior comforts, etc. Railways will come up with a modern signaling system that can operate such high speeds trains efficiently and reliably. IR will be managed by professional managers who will guide the IR board on compensation, hiring/retention, metrics/monitoring, profits/loss statements, balance sheets etc. Mr Elattuvalapil Sreedharan will be CEO of IR for a period of 4 yrs. End of speech. Jai Hind.

Dear Friend ,

Nice thoughts , But , what were thouse ????

All railway stations in the nation will be upgraded to world class standards , an average high speed in 200 mph range

If they do all that , you & me will have to pay Rs 14000/- for an 8 hrs train ride each time .

Nothing personal against you , but Indian Railways is not Delhi Metro we are afraid , & if i were you , i would atleast take the trouble of maybe venturing into 150-200 km " interior " as they say it , to atleast try to know the situations of my country better before dreaming funny stuffs about her , or atleast use my net time efficiently to read some genuine blogs like http://anuragsbuzz.blogspot.com/2008/03/bharat-darshan-chronicles-i.html , in an effort to comprehend the real thing out there , before submitting another typical urban minded common man speech &
ending it with that nice n sweet n patriotic Jai Hind .

JAI HIND

Kewl Batty

July 4th, 2009, 01:44 AM

barrykul

July 4th, 2009, 02:32 AM

Dear Friend ,

Nice thoughts , But , what were thouse ????

All railway stations in the nation will be upgraded to world class standards , an average high speed in 200 mph range

If they do all that , you & me will have to pay Rs 14000/- for an 8 hrs train ride each time .

Nothing personal against you , but Indian Railways is not Delhi Metro we are afraid , & if i were you , i would atleast take the trouble of maybe venturing into 150-200 km " interior " as they say it , to atleast try to know the situations of my country better before dreaming funny stuffs about her , or atleast use my net time efficiently to read some genuine blogs like http://anuragsbuzz.blogspot.com/2008/03/bharat-darshan-chronicles-i.html , in an effort to comprehend the real thing out there , before submitting another typical urban minded common man speech &
ending it with that nice n sweet n patriotic Jai Hind .

JAI HIND

BTW, nice job plugging your blog site, is this allowed by SC? But seriously you have too many assumptions that you take as gospel truth. The one on cost is hilarious. We just finished building a bunch of relatively high quality airports and the cost were in the $25 M range. Try that anywhere in the world. Next, have you traveled abroad to see what India is missing. To color everything with realities in India is not vision, pal. Many of the realities of India are because of the harsh rule due to Muslim invasion followed by the British. There is absolutely no need for India to be stuck in such a paradigm. India needs to be a leader once again as it has traditionally over the centuries of its existence. The only way to do that is to break free from any pre-conceived notion either existing or forced upon it by alien cultures. We have the human capital to think radical concepts (recently Tata Nano being one of them). India's cost basis is also low that is why GDP is often quoted in PPP terms. You Rs 14000 won't take 8 hrs since we are moving at 200 mile per hour and it wont cost that much since we amortize costs over a time period and the initial costs were low compared to world rip of rates.

todscreen

July 4th, 2009, 06:14 AM

^^

Yes Mamta RM has added nearly 60 services(one direction) for Bengal weekly through new trains.

The worst is Gujarat left with just 6 new service per week

The Indian railways should be named as Partiality Railways.

i believe every state got its fair share of the pie. not all states are of equal importance. states with metro cities are given the most importance.

i was surprised that she added so many rail services in the south. i mean bangalore alone had like 2 stations named to be included in the modernaization project.

anyway. all is good. apparently she is the people's leader and her national image today is soaring.

however, i am really happy, because WEST BENGAL finally got rid of its menace. Now as the smart commie government keeps her busy in national affairs, WB can stealthily move towards a better future. hehe

todscreen

July 4th, 2009, 06:17 AM

Why the eff does regional pride have to be of prime importance when you become the country's railway minister.

Same goes for Lalu. He did this and that for Bihar, added new services. But what about the other states?

railway is one of the greatest services in India that is controlled by the central government, so its only natural to assume that when someone is in power of this sector, they are going to be biased.

this is true for anyone in such a position unless the person is a foreigner like that italian Gandhi lady(i forgot her name).

Arul Murugan

July 4th, 2009, 06:54 AM

i believe every state got its fair share of the pie. not all states are of equal importance. states with metro cities are given the most importance.

i was surprised that she added so many rail services in the south. i mean bangalore alone had like 2 stations named to be included in the modernaization project.

anyway. all is good. apparently she is the people's leader and her national image today is soaring.

however, i am really happy, because WEST BENGAL finally got rid of its menace. Now as the smart commie government keeps her busy in national affairs, WB can stealthily move towards a better future. hehe

I agree that Karnataka got good share, but other major states AP, TN, Gujarat and Kerala was badly neglected!

Pls read the budget speech then you will know! I posted this some where... you can have a look to know how the states were equally treated in new services.

http://i42.tinypic.com/2zsprx0.jpg

And when you talk about new services from Metro cities, Mumbai, Kolkatta, New Delhi, Bangalore got cake like trains more than 7 new regular originating services.... Chennai with only 1, Hyderabad and Ahmedabad metro were valued to Zero by railways!!

todscreen

July 4th, 2009, 07:14 AM

I agree that Karnataka got good share, but other major states AP, TN, Gujarat and Kerala was badly neglected!

Pls read the budget speech then you will know! I posted this some where... you can have a look to know how the states were equally treated in new services.

http://i42.tinypic.com/2zsprx0.jpg

And when you talk about new services from Metro cities, Mumbai, Kolkatta, New Delhi, Bangalore got cake like trains more than 7 new regular originating services.... Chennai with only 1, Hyderabad and Ahmedabad metro were valued to Zero by railways!!

i listened to her speech when she read out the name of the stations... there were several from kerala...she even included thrivandupuram as a metro.

we are talking metro cities here. They include Mumbai, Delhi, Chennai, and Kolkata. and according to Mamata: thrivandupuram.

jaleelmalik

July 4th, 2009, 02:34 PM

i listened to her speech when she read out the name of the stations... there were several from kerala...she even included thrivandupuram as a metro.

we are talking metro cities here. They include Mumbai, Delhi, Chennai, and Kolkata. and according to Mamata: thrivandupuram.

Initially, India had only 4 Metro Cities as had been mentioned by you.

But as time passed, many of the Indian cities had grown in population & area.
Accordingly, any city having a population of 1 million or above is considered as a metropolitan city. As per this vision, Mumbai, Delhi, Kolkota & Chennai are treated as Major Metros. According to some classification, even Bangalore, Hyderabad & Ahmedabad are also Major Metros.

However, with a population of more than one million, Trivandrum (Thiruvananthapuram) is India's Southern Most Metropolitan City.

sidney_jec

July 4th, 2009, 02:42 PM

forgive my ignorance... but what is a 'Turant' train?

"turant" translates to "sudden" in English..
now try figuring out for urself what she actually meant :D

Ajaypp

July 4th, 2009, 03:36 PM

i listened to her speech when she read out the name of the stations... there were several from kerala...she even included thrivandupuram as a metro.
we are talking metro cities here. They include Mumbai, Delhi, Chennai, and Kolkata. and according to Mamata: thrivandupuram.

Trivandrum (Thiruvananthapuram) and Cochin are million-plus cities in Kerala, and they are the only two to be included in the scheme. For your information, Trivandrum Central is the second busiest station in the Southern Railway after Chennai Central which is the zonal HQ. It was one of the 18 stations included in the original list proposed by Lalu. Cochin was added this year.

And please do try and get the spelling right. I admit it is a bit long, but you can do better than spell Trivandrum as "Thrivandupuram". How would you like it if I spelled Kolkata as "Calkoda" or Mumbai as "Mombai"?

skganji

July 4th, 2009, 04:36 PM

I agree that Karnataka got good share, but other major states AP, TN, Gujarat and Kerala was badly neglected!

And when you talk about new services from Metro cities, Mumbai, Kolkatta, New Delhi, Bangalore got cake like trains more than 7 new regular originating services.... Chennai with only 1, Hyderabad and Ahmedabad metro were valued to Zero by railways!!

AP is one of the most neglected in terms of railways. There is a huge demand for doubling railway lines, constructing new lines . 5-6 projects in the state are pending for decades. The joker Lalu neglected the state. Looks Mamata also ignored it. Railway Ministry is becoming region biased .It is not working on the basis of demand and supply it is working on the whims of few individuals running this ministry.

a_niranjan

July 4th, 2009, 06:39 PM

Central control on Railways can not be easily eliminated due to the complex nature of rolling stock inventory, traffic operations etc. For those who want to privatize the railways, you should consider what will happen to traffic if the bottomline is profit. Even Rajdhanis will sit idle while goods trains full of iron ore and coal bypass them.

This is exactly the problem with AmTrak which does not own tracks across the country ... they have no right of way and trains routinely run very late in order to accommodate the freight traffic preferred by the track owner.

Having said that, I believe that all static infrastructure including stations, loading docks, hotels, railway colonies etc should be handed over to the states. There is no sense in a Railway Minister making decisions on how a patch of railway owned land in Gorakhpur should be utilized.

It will be relatively easy for railways to lease land to developers to make high-rise apartments on railway lands. They would effectively improve land usage, the employees will get better living spaces and the railways will make a lot of money. Think prime locations like Badhwar Park in Mumbai and the land next to the Maurya in new Delhi.

By the way, for those who have been clamoring for better designed locomotives, the two new factories in Bihar were supposed to be Joint Ventures. Good luck locating them in West Bengal (oh the irony! Nano-Buster will have to work with CPM to get these factories located in WB)

fred_the_cute_guy

July 4th, 2009, 07:03 PM

This is not Indian Railway Budget , This only West Bengal Railway budget :lol::lol:

So don't get shocked, If your region is not anywhere in the Budget document...

No, if you have to regionalize this budget then I would call it a DELHI rail budget, with emphasis on West Bengal (like every politician does - DELHI budget with emphasis on another - home - state).

Unfortunate.

jaleelmalik

July 5th, 2009, 09:25 AM

Trivandrum (Thiruvananthapuram) and Cochin are million-plus cities in Kerala, and they are the only two to be included in the scheme. For your information, Trivandrum Central is the second busiest station in the Southern Railway after Chennai Central which is the zonal HQ. It was one of the 18 stations included in the original list proposed by Lalu. Cochin was added this year.

And please do try and get the spelling right. I admit it is a bit long, but you can do better than spell Trivandrum as "Thrivandupuram". How would you like it if I spelled Kolkata as "Calkoda" or Mumbai as "Mombai"?

As per this criterion, both Trivandrum & Kochi were included in the JNNRUM Phase I itself.

todscreen

July 6th, 2009, 01:29 AM

Mamata's budget was the most unbiased budget scheme in all of India.

Given the magnitude and importance of WB(the California of India), it barely got any projects or station included except for the ones in Kolkata(which is only natural).

so, I don't know what the fuss is all about. All states were treated equally based on their importance. If your state is corrupt, down to earth, and vile, then too bad...should have changed a while back.

Mamata is like India's god fairy: righteous, wise, and fair. And from some of the complaints I hear on SSCI, it seems like people of India for a while hasn't been used to such fair politics.

my advice: Learn now, or suffer.

ir desi

July 6th, 2009, 06:42 AM

todscreen

July 6th, 2009, 06:59 AM

Although I am always happy to see development, posts like the above make me wonder whether I should laugh or puke.

that is a very good question.

if you are the good kind, then you can snicker it off, knowing that others will suffer.

but if you are the bad kind, then you must as well get sick now, because later on it will be a lot worse.

a_niranjan

July 6th, 2009, 07:06 AM

Mamata is like India's god fairy: righteous, wise, and fair.

Modi agrees with you ... he's laughing to the bank.

ir_desi ... please proceed to puke.

sidney_jec

July 6th, 2009, 07:38 AM

HopePersists

July 6th, 2009, 11:20 AM

I guess Tod was doing Pranayaam while delivering such valuable information to us..... Peace....:lol:

sidney_jec

July 6th, 2009, 12:14 PM

^^ dont u dare degarde Yoga :P

HopePersists

July 6th, 2009, 12:20 PM

Not actually to degrade yoga but i feel yoga helped him to calm down his angriness towards Mamata di, and to take things positively even in worst situation...:lol:

Naresh

July 6th, 2009, 02:24 PM

Mamata's budget was the most unbiased budget scheme in all of India.

Given the magnitude and importance of WB (the California of India), it barely got any projects or station included except for the ones in Kolkata(which is only natural).

my advice: Learn now, or suffer.

todscreen Ji :

Being Ex-LAMOB Calcutta I do love the City as well as West Bengal and have High Regards for their past.

However, one can agree that West Bengal was comparable to the Ruhr of Germany or the Industrial Belt of the UK but your present statement is an Insult to California - to say the least!

Get Real.

In any case I do wish West Bengal in General and Kolkata in Particular the best so that in due course I can visit Ralli Singh, Nizam's and K C Dey!!

Cheers:cheers:

engineer.akash

July 6th, 2009, 09:49 PM

Golden Chariot to cover TN, Kerala from this October
Bangalore,DH News Service:

The Golden Chariot, which is rated as one of the top six trains catering to tourism worldwide by the UK-based Vanity Fair magazine, will now ply to Kerala and Tamil Nadu from October 2009.

The luxury train will go to the neighbouring States for a period of six weeks in a season. “The train will have three weeks of travel in Karnataka. At the end of each month, it will be tour Kerala and Tamil Nadu for a week,” said KSTDC MD, Vinay Luthra.

According to the destination route map prepared by the KSTDC, the tour will begin in Bangalore and move onto locations including Chennai, Mahabalipuram, Pondicherry, Madurai, and Kanyakumari (all in TN) before moving onto Thiruvananthapuram and Kochi in Kerala. It will touch Coimbatore on its return journey to Bangalore.

The Chariot has been chartered out to The Luxury Trains, a company that charters luxury trains for tourists in India. “We have already got two weeks’ booking on the Chariot in advance, and will be expecting more booking for the other four weeks of tour into Tamil Nadu and Kerala,” said Luthra.

Under the charter system, KSTDC will be earning Rs 25 lakh per week as fee from Luxury Trains. This apart, the entire haulage cost to Railways and the tour visit costs will be borne by the Company. While the first two weeks have been booked by Luxury Trains, the remaining four are yet to be decided for this season.

“We are hoping that Luxury Trains will themselves take up the remaining four weeks too. But in case the Golden Chariot tour into Kerala and Tamil Nadu has to be conducted by us (KSTDC) then the cost per person per night has been placed at $ 400 to $ 450,” said Luthra.

Revamping KSTDC

In September 2009, KSTDC will brand its tourism packages under “KarnatakaHolidays.NET”. The project is aimed at providing better packaging of the tours and travels offered by the KSTDC in the State. “We will have a different look to attract the customers, and brand a new set of hotels and tourism packages,” said the Managing Director.

source (http://www.deccanherald.com/content/12252/golden-chariot-cover-tn-kerala.html)

todscreen

July 7th, 2009, 04:15 AM

I guess Tod was doing Pranayaam while delivering such valuable information to us..... Peace....:lol:
don't worry...i was only doing it to fleck off some people trying to attack DIDI!!

who btw..is not my friend in any form what so ever.

Not actually to degrade yoga but i feel yoga helped him to calm down his angriness towards Mamata di, and to take things positively even in worst situation...:lol:
yes...i did a complete back flip, knowing that didi is out to ruin the rest of India and has left WB alone. Thank god for the UPA for pulling her away. yippie.

todscreen

July 7th, 2009, 04:17 AM

todscreen Ji :

Being Ex-LAMOB Calcutta I do love the City as well as West Bengal and have High Regards for their past.

However, one can agree that West Bengal was comparable to the Ruhr of Germany or the Industrial Belt of the UK but your present statement is an Insult to California - to say the least!

Get Real.

In any case I do wish West Bengal in General and Kolkata in Particular the best so that in due course I can visit Ralli Singh, Nizam's and K C Dey!!

Cheers:cheers:

you are right: india is best left alone being compared to europe and china.. but i meant importance wise...wb is a top priority state.

todscreen

July 7th, 2009, 04:18 AM

Modi agrees with you ... he's laughing to the bank.

ir_desi ... please proceed to puke.

haha

i didn't quiet follow, but is guzurat getting a lot of new modern stations?

Suncity

July 7th, 2009, 04:38 AM

toddy talks trash (as usual).

dvk1982

July 7th, 2009, 05:04 AM

Given the magnitude and importance of WB(the California of India), it barely got any projects or station included except for the ones in Kolkata(which is only natural).

Mamata is like India's god fairy: righteous, wise, and fair. And from some of the complaints I hear on SSCI, it seems like people of India for a while hasn't been used to such fair politics.

my advice: Learn now, or suffer.

R u on drugs or smoking pot ? Its one of those funniest posts here which needs to be seen with contempt... WB California of India.
Looking at the current scenario if WB is California of India, India is the dog of Asia or may be Earth if we disregard whole Africa.

My be i don't have any complaints in ur reasoning becoz if DID is according to u the God fairy (if seriously and not in a satirical tone), ur judgment is :bash::bash::bash::wtf::omg::spam1:

todscreen

July 7th, 2009, 07:35 AM

R u on drugs or smoking pot ? Its one of those funniest posts here which needs to be seen with contempt... WB California of India.
Looking at the current scenario if WB is California of India, India is the dog of Asia or may be Earth if we disregard whole Africa.

My be i don't have any complaints in ur reasoning becoz if DID is according to u the God fairy (if seriously and not in a satirical tone), ur judgment is :bash::bash::bash::wtf::omg::spam1:

it is the dog of asia. idk what that means...but sounds just about right. besides there are no other states fit for comparision.

sidney_jec

July 7th, 2009, 07:37 AM

^^ those are some emotions..

todscreen

July 7th, 2009, 07:41 AM

^^i know right....he probably had to pay extra to use them. haha...bling bling

swaggin his style?

ir desi

July 7th, 2009, 05:58 PM

You're not a pimp, playa, or the shit. Get over it.

bhargavsura

July 7th, 2009, 06:09 PM

Alright. Lets get the Railway Discussion on track now.

todscreen

July 7th, 2009, 09:13 PM

^^right on...why aren't you running anymore? i wanted to vote for you.

a_niranjan

July 8th, 2009, 02:59 AM

haha

i didn't quiet follow, but is guzurat getting a lot of new modern stations?

India's God Fairy (fairness, righteousness and wisdom be upon her) sent Nano packing from Indian California to "Guzurat".

Now she will need to find land for *two* loco factories in Indian California.

[By the way, I work in California and am surrounded by budget cuts and IOUs ... even WB is probably in better shape ... California could use a God Fairy ... instead of Fairy Girlie Men ... :) ]

dvk1982

July 8th, 2009, 05:54 AM

^^i know right....he probably had to pay extra to use them. haha...bling bling

swaggin his style?

Luckily i didn't pay anything :banana:

todscreen

July 8th, 2009, 07:45 AM

India's God Fairy (fairness, righteousness and wisdom be upon her) sent Nano packing from Indian California to "Guzurat".

Now she will need to find land for *two* loco factories in Indian California.

[By the way, I work in California and am surrounded by budget cuts and IOUs ... even WB is probably in better shape ... California could use a God Fairy ... instead of Fairy Girlie Men ... :) ]

i like arnold. he is a super hero. he will save california from the republicans. hehe...albeit..the bankruptcy situation of state's treasury. i wish you luck my friend.

btw, do you live in the silicon valley?

barrykul

July 10th, 2009, 11:31 PM

Looks like the Sixth Pay Commission wiped out the surplus cash of IR in one fell swoop. The fat paychecks and bloated staff will drive down profits even more. Instead of improving infra/stations/trains roughly $14B went into a pithole.

The cumulative cash surplus of the Railways before dividend during the four years ending 2007-08 was Rs 68,778 crore. The cash surplus of over Rs 25,000 crore during 2007-08 was 25 per cent higher than that in the previous year. However, the cash surplus declined to Rs 17,400 crore in 2008-09 and it is projected to go down further to Rs 14,201.27 crore this fiscal.

This is, in part, due to the Sixth Pay Commission award entailing an extra outgo of Rs 13,600 crore in 2008-09 and another Rs 14,600 crore this fiscal. After meeting dividend and pension liabilities, the cash surplus for 2009-10 is projected at Rs 8,722 crore, 31 per cent lower than Rs 12,683 crore in 2008-09.

The amount available for capitalisation (transfers to the Development Fund and Capital Fund) will be just Rs 2,642 crore in 2009-10, down from Rs 6,356 crore in 2008-09 and a hefty Rs 13,431 crore in 2007-08.

With fuel costs slated to increase further this fiscal, unless employee productivity increases significantly, the Railways is in danger of ceasing to generate any net surplus. In this context, a worrisome development is the steep fall in the Railways’ operating ratio — an indicator of efficiency. It declined from 75.9 in 2007-08 to 88.3 in 2008-09 and is projected to go down further to 92.5 per cent this fiscal.

Very pathetic...

The maximum speed of freight trains continues to remain less than 25 km per hour. The Railways has to traverse a long way before it can match the standards of some of the Asian countries, let alone global standards.

clicky (http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2009/07/10/stories/2009071050190900.htm)

gradybush

July 11th, 2009, 06:34 AM

i like arnold. he is a super hero. he will save california from the republicans. hehe...albeit..the bankruptcy situation of state's treasury. i wish you luck my friend.

btw, do you live in the silicon valley?

Arnold is a Republican, btw.

vidya

July 11th, 2009, 08:28 AM

IRCTC to deliver food in Rajdhani and Shatabdi trains ..Read More (http://www.exchange4projects.com/RAIL/irctc-to-deliver-food-in-rajdhani-and-shatabdi-trains)
Well I have never travel by such trains ... May i know what outsourced means ?

Kewl Batty

July 11th, 2009, 10:16 AM

Simpy put, outsourcing is gettin someone to do ur job...

IR has been getting food from outside (A contractor) for Rajdhani and Shatabdi.. so they're gonna stop tat..

Euromast

July 11th, 2009, 09:15 PM

Northeast gets 10 railway projects (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News-By-Industry/Transportation/Northeast-gets-10-railway-projects/articleshow/4767245.cms)

GUWAHATI: The Northeast has altogether 10 national projects being undertaken by the railways. According to the railway ministry, for the ongoing
project of Jiribam-Imphal (Tupul) an outlay of Rs 50 crore has been earmarked for 2009-10. The new track laying between Jiribam-Tupul is targeted to be completed by March 2014 and Tupul Imphal is likely to be completed by March 2016.

For the proposed railway link between Azra in Assam and Byrnihat in Meghalaya final location survey is in progress. However the survey work in Assam portion is suspended due to obstruction by local people. For the current fiscal an outlay of Rs 5 crore is earmarked and the project is targeted to be completed by March 2014.

krishnancv

July 13th, 2009, 08:03 PM

Looks like the Sixth Pay Commission wiped out the surplus cash of IR in one fell swoop. The fat paychecks and bloated staff will drive down profits even more. Instead of improving infra/stations/trains roughly $14B went into a pithole.

Very pathetic...

clicky (http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2009/07/10/stories/2009071050190900.htm)

My father being a govt employee, I very much support the 6th pay commssion. The same workers get a hefty pay in private companies. So why not in govt companies? Infact that's the reason for not many qualified engineers in govt. Many were infact quitting until the 6th pay commission.

Arasu

July 14th, 2009, 01:25 PM

barrykul

July 15th, 2009, 08:19 AM

My father being a govt employee, I very much support the 6th pay commssion. The same workers get a hefty pay in private companies. So why not in govt companies? Infact that's the reason for not many qualified engineers in govt. Many were infact quitting until the 6th pay commission.

Not only your father but many others have a govt employee in their families, including me. No one is begrudging them fair pay. That is not the issue. The problem is the bloated staff like Arasu points out. Many of the employees in railways hardly do a decent job, some are absent but collect paychecks and most of them have not seen a performance review that impacts their livelihood. Railways is not run as a business but more as a govt social experiment. Recent most Neta made an entire speech geared towards this topic. Lalu to his credit did turnaround the financial performance of the railways. He closed down a major loophole in the system (it takes a thief to catch another), i.e. overloading freight wagons but under-reporting freight charges. The excess cash generated should have gone towards infrastructure improvement of the railways not into paychecks. The 6th pay commission should have been implemented after a major cut in the bloated number employed. This would have rewarded the deserving. Let us face it, today the Indian railway system is a glorified junk pile, operating bygone era equipment, shoddily maintained railways and stations. No other country operating in the 21 st century has such infrastructure, everyone has moved on, only India is stuck with status quo and none of the netas and babus want to fix the system. It takes 10s of Billions of $ / 48,000s of crores of Rs to fix the system.

robertashok

July 15th, 2009, 12:59 PM

I 1000% agree with barrykul,but somehow i feel railways, with the kind of segregated population we have , i think if we move next level of infrastructure, not sure if it will be affordable by all the people.

Well i disagree that we use operating bygone era equipment, the railway wagons which is still running today is like old Ambassdor Car , made out of hard rock iron.

however Maintainence is below par, it is also upto people to co-operate with them rather blaming only the officials.

we should we opt of lightweight steel which is used in most countries. I guess with this we can greatly improve speed (with less power to pull the wagons), some hardcore mechanical guy with good knowledge on physics , can throw light on this using simple words.

i know many persons who are working only in name for railways who just run business outside, they pay a 6 months salary as bribe don't come to office for a year.

I know some people who worked really hard in railways, they do not know anything else.
infact one of railway employee tried to bribe my father to arrange loan for him, though his proof details for loan were good. My father approved his loan without anything,while he was explaining this to me, then only i could realise how tough it things are in India.

I really salute thousands of small unknown entrepreneurs who had managed things in India in such tough situations.

Well things are changing really fast now , everyone could observe that in last 12 yrs in tamilnadu.When we have more things to access like in States, i am sure we will raise far better than others.

robertashok

July 15th, 2009, 01:01 PM

Guys, kindly apologize me for mentioning only tamilnadu, I did not have a chance to stay in other states.so i do not know what happend there, but i am sure it is only changed for better

EMP

July 15th, 2009, 09:28 PM

India Railways freight loadings up by 9.6pct

BL reported that the Indian Railways moved 71.53 million tonne of revenue earning freight in June, registering 9.59% growth over the corresponding period last fiscal. This is lower than the 71.73 million tonne transported in May 2009.

During May, the Railways carried 71.73 million tonne of freight, which was an increase of 2.54% over the 69.95 million tonne carried in May 2008. The corresponding figures for April were 69.85 million tonne, up by 3.05% over April 2008.

In February, the Railways loaded 70.02 million tonne, marginally lower than the 70.63 million tonne in February 2008. In January, the Railways’ carried 72.44 million tonne of freight, up by 2.91% against the corresponding period of the previous fiscal.

According to an official, in June, there is an increase of 6.26 million tonne over the actual freight traffic of 65.27 million tonne carried by the Indian Railways during the same period last year, showing an increase of 9.59%.

For the April to June quarter, the Indian Railways carried 213.09 million tonne of revenue earning freight traffic.

Source:- http://steelguru.com/news/index/2009/07/15/MTAyMjA4/India_Railways_freight_loadings_up_by_9.6pct.html

EMP

July 15th, 2009, 09:30 PM

Indian Railway revenue earnings up by 5pct during 3 months

According to press release, the total approximate earnings of Indian Railways on originating basis during April 1st to June 30th 2009 were INR 20591.51 crore compared to INR 19563.17 crore during the same period last year, registering an increase of 5.26%.

The total goods earnings have gone up from INR 13468.64 crore during April 1st to June 30th 2008 to INR 13937.14 crore during April 1st to June 30th 2009, an increase of 3.48%.

The total passenger revenue earnings during first 3 months of the financial year 2009-10 were INR 5802.67 crore compared to INR 5342.18 crore during the same period last year, registering an increase of 8.62%.

The revenue earnings from other coaching amounted to INR 575.15 crore during April to June 2009 compared to INR 509.30 crore during the same period last year, an increase of 12.93%.

Meanwhile, the total approximate numbers of passengers booked during April to June 2009 were 1836.57 million compared to 1739.28 million during the same period last year, showing an increase of 5.59%.

In the suburban and non suburban sectors, the numbers of passengers booked during April to June 2009 were 922.94 million and 913.63 million compared to 916.20 million and 823.08 million during the same period last year, an increase of 0.74% and 11.00% respectively.

Source:- http://steelguru.com/news/index/2009/07/09/MTAxNDM0/Indian_Railway_revenue_earnings_up_by_5pct_during_3_months.html

EMP

July 15th, 2009, 09:34 PM

Car transport by rail viable, to be extended

The pilot project initiated by Indian Railways in December 2008 to transport cars on rail has been commercialised and will be extended to other parts of the country.

“There are plans to establish services for the transportation of cars from the auto hubs in Delhi to Chennai and from Delhi to Pune in the coming months. The process of issuing tenders for the construction of modified wagons has begun,” an official from the Society of Automobile Manufacturers (Siam) said.

The first experiment to transport cars on railway lines was conducted by the railways in collaboration with Maruti Suzuki for the transport of the latter’s A-Star brand. Cars were transported from Gurgaon railway station to Mundhra port in Gujarat. The A-Stars were then exported to European markets.

The rail line between Gurgaon to Mundhra and Gurgaon to Chennai has been activated for use by other car manufacturers also, said a statement by the railways. There are two dedicated trains each, with 45 wagons. Siam officials said there were plans to increase the number of trains to 10. Each train can transport 270 small cars. The new trains will have facilities to transport even larger vehicles, like Sports Utility Vehicles (SUVs).

A Maruti executive said it cost about Rs 6,500 to transport a small car via road from their factory in Gurgaon to Mundhra. “Factoring a current discount of 25 per cent the railways offer, it costs almost the same to transport a single car on rail. But this discount is seasonal. Costs may go up,” he said.

Source:- http://www.business-standard.com/india/news/car-transport-by-rail-viable-to-be-extended/363574/

robertashok

July 17th, 2009, 04:23 AM

Railways to introduce bio-diesel, CNG engines: Minister

Railways has decided to introduce bio-diesel and CNG engines, the successful laboratory trial of which has already been carried out.

Informing this in the Lok Sabha today, Minister of State for Railways K H Muniyappa said trials have been completed on trains and one power car of DMU train has been converted to run on duel fuel mode using CNG and diesel.

Earlier, trial run has also been carried out successfully by Northern Railway on engines hauling local trains.

To another question, he said Railways has decided to set up a rail museum at Shimla at a cost of Rs 47.68 lakh. "The plan is under finalisation and the work is being expedited," he said in a written reply.

Railways had earlier also sanctioned establishment of a rail museum in Maharahtra's Lonavala to give a rare peak into the illustrious past of Indian Railways.

zhiemi

July 17th, 2009, 04:34 PM

Railways need more than 4500 coaches each yr

http://www.financialexpress.com/news/railways-need-more-than-4500-coaches-each-yr/490727/

Government said more than 4500 coaches are needed by the Railways annually to ensure smooth passenger services but the supply is much below demand.

Annual requirement of air conditioned coaches has been assessed at 660 and other coaches at 3878 by Working Group on Railway Programmes, but the production units are not able to meet the demand, Minister of State for Railways E Ahamed said in the Rajya Sabha.

Shortage of coaches is also coming in the way of Railways from introducing new trains and replacing the worn out coaches with the new ones.

However, Ahamed said new manufacturing units are being set up to meet the requirement. They include setting up of two new rail coach factories at Rae Bareli in UP and Palakkad in Kerala. In addition, he said, a new coach factory would be set up Kanchrapara in West Bengal, as mentioned in the Railway Budget this year.

To a separate question, he said Railways is considering introducing Internet facility in selected trains. A trial run was conducted in Mumbai-Ahmedabad Shatabdi Express earlier this year.

SarafIndian

July 17th, 2009, 07:57 PM

PRESS INFORMATION BUREAU (http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=50552)

17:24 IST
RAJYA SABHA

The Eastern Dedicated Freight Corridor from Ludhiana in Punjab to Dankuni near Kolkata covering a length of 1806 kilometers is expected to cost, as per present estimates, approximately Rs. 22,196 crore. The requirement of land for the Ludhiana-Sonnagar portion is approximately 4300 hectares and that for Sonnagar-Dankuni would be known after the completion of final location survey. Notification for land acquisition under section 20-A of the Railway (amendment) Act, 2008, for Ludhiana-Sonnagar Portion, has been issued for about 3,300 hectares. The debt-equity ratio of the project would be within 2:1 and funding from World Bank and Asian Development bank (ADB) has been sought for the Project. The first construction contract for 105 kilometers from New Karwandia to New Ganjkhwaja of Sonnagar-Mughalsarai section has been awarded. The tentative schedule of completion of the project, subject to availability of land and funds, is 2016-17. Work would commence only after completion of final location survey work.

This information was given by the Minister of State for Ministry of Railways, Shri E. Ahamed in a written reply in Rajya Sabha today.

AKS/HK/LK

Euromast

July 18th, 2009, 11:04 AM

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/6130/getimagef.png

bhargavsura

July 18th, 2009, 03:24 PM

Finally. Some news of this. Need some more please. Mumbai, Delhi, Kolkatta, Chennai, Bangalore, Ahmedabad and many major stations.

sidney_jec

July 20th, 2009, 10:54 AM

PTI (http://www.ptinews.com/news/182783_120-puja-specials-this-year)

120 puja specials this year

STAFF WRITER 21:51 HRS IST

Kolkata, July 19 (PTI) Railway Minister Mamata Banerjee today announced that 120 special trains would be run to clear heavy rush of passengers during the forthcoming Durga Puja season.

"Get ready to arrange your travel this Puja. Start booking of tickets from now. We are arranging 120 puja specials for your benefit," she said while flagging off a ladies special EMU train Howrah to Bandel in Hooghly district during peak hours.

In an another attempt to boost tourism in her home state, she announced a new station at Zinanpur near Mondarmoni beach in East Midnapore district which is a favourite destination of Bengali tourists.

"Those travelling from here to sea resort Digha by the newly launched Howrah-Digha Kandari express may get down at Zinanpur station to visit Mondarmoni beach," she said.

She said tourism industry would get a boost if the Railways can be linked to it properly.

robertashok

July 21st, 2009, 07:12 AM

Three 'Duronto' trains likely to run from August: Mamata

Railway Minister Mamata Banerjee today promised to fulfill all budget committments within one year and announced the likely start of 'Duronto' non-stop train services between select cities from next month.

Three of the Duronto trains -- Delhi-Pune, Mumbai-Howrah and Howrah-Delhi -- are likely to start running from August, Mamata said.

"The idea is ready and only the colouring of the trains is being done," she said. The trains will take two hours less than the Rajdhani Express to reach their respective destinations at a lesser fare.

The trains will have only operational stoppages, she noted.

Twelve "Duronto" trains were announced by her during the presentation of the budget on July three. She later also announced two "Duronto" trains to Delhi from Secunderabad and Nagpur while replying to the debate on the budget in the Lok Sabha. These trains will comprise both AC and non-AC sleeper coaches.

Bannerjee also flagged off the first ladies special EMU train services at Howrah station here. She also announced that three faster parcel train service -Tughlaqabad-Howrah, Tughlaqabad-Chennai and Tughlaqabad-Mumbai will run from August.

Only 2 hrs saved, Is it worth it guys. how much time does the other train usually take

HopePersists

July 21st, 2009, 10:34 AM

arijeetb

July 21st, 2009, 06:31 PM

binaiks

July 21st, 2009, 09:29 PM

^^ Well i personally welcome the idea of duranto. If i reach howrah from new delhi in just 10 hrs then it will be much convinient than waiting in the train day and nights. Specially if it benefits the 2nd class travellers in comparison to rajdhani travellers. Well it's informed above that few duronto will be Air-Conditioned thus benefitting both type passengers.:)

Howrah to New Delhi in 10 Hours??? I guess you are joking. The Durontos would not save more than an hour or a maximum 90 minutes over the current Rajdhanis, which take about 17~18 hours as of now. Given the fact that some of these Durontos would have non-AC coaches as well, the top speed of these coaches are unlikely to be over 120kmph (which is the maximum allowed for non-AC coaches), compared to 130kmph for coaches used for Rajdhani trains.

^^anything new is welcome, however I do not want the "operational halts" to be significant since it may well defeat the purpose.

Technical halts are required for safety reasons. Afterall, you wouldn't be interested in being driven around by a guy working 16 hours continuously at a stretch, would you? The maximum continuous duty allowed for Loco Pilots as of today is 6 hours. However, they tend to change once approximately every four-five hours.

robertashok

July 22nd, 2009, 03:17 AM

Guys,

The Duronto Trains will save only 2 hrs of train journey, Is it significant for the people.
I am not sure.

Arul Murugan

July 22nd, 2009, 06:09 AM

^^

Chennai-New Delhi Duronto will not even save that 2hrs. Surely the train will have techincal halt at Vijayawada for 20min, guess Balharsha another 10min, Nagpur another 20min, Bhopal another 10min....

Mostly Duronto will take 28hrs from Chennai to New Delhi just like Rajdhani express.

Nothing new in this Duronto train. It is going to be a utter failure in routes like Chennai-Delhi.

Already Sampark Kranthi concept was not a successful one, which ran non-stop in other states and will stop in the only in stations of detination state from Delhi. Later they made many of the stops in other states as permanent one.

These Duronto are just a fancy one to get attention of people. Media has done that publicity already by praising the Duronto concept. So people also believe it is going to be a great train.

robertashok

July 22nd, 2009, 06:55 AM

Long Long ago, i used to travel in GST and TN express from Chennai to New Delhi.

mostly during the day time it goes at 90 kmph, with almost the timing of the stops as mentioned above. if Duronto happens to touch 120+. I guess saves time by 3-4 hrs.

which still does not make any good improvement, or accelrating things.

Probably Bullet trains would have make an impact on the whole , till Mamta rules railways, i cannot see a window for it, forget about the Doors.

Arul Murugan

July 22nd, 2009, 07:07 AM

^^

120KMPH is impossible to maintain all time, And I really doubt except Bhopal-New Delhi Shadabdi any other train touches that 120KMPH daily.

Chennai-New Delhi Non-stop service will run with conventional sleeper or 2S coaches, so just max these train will touch 80KMPH average for whole journey.

Bullet trains? Mamta will make it for sure, as her team also will visit Japan, China, Germany, France like Lalu+Velu team. But again it will be postponed to next 5 years so that next RM can also visit those countries. :lol:

HopePersists

July 22nd, 2009, 05:16 PM

Howrah to New Delhi in 10 Hours??? I guess you are joking. The Durontos would not save more than an hour or a maximum 90 minutes over the current Rajdhanis, which take about 17~18 hours as of now.
Sorry guys for the wrong information:ohno:. I can't recall but i am guess i read it somewhere... Umm... most probably those media utters. Well thanks binaiks for the clarification.:)

Euromast

July 22nd, 2009, 05:51 PM

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/8118/22072009525002.jpg

barrykul

July 22nd, 2009, 06:40 PM

binaiks

July 22nd, 2009, 07:53 PM

These LHB coaches are the bare minimum coach for IR. Every ordinary coach needs to be replaced with LHB coaches. Even the LHB coaches don't look great on the exterior, IR has managed to make it drab looking on the outside. The wheels are exposed and the roof top is signature IR design (for whatever it is worth). Tata Nano engineers can do a better job and a graduating class in industrial design can come up with some cool designs.

FYI, these coaches are designed by the world renowned German Coach Maker Linke Hoffman Busch (LHB, which currently trades as Alstom). You are calling these coaches drab just based on a black and white photograph.

Could you please let me know what are the advantages of a "hidden" wheel?

AND, FYI, the train in the image show above DOES NOT HAVE COVERED WHEELS. Its just that you are look at a Broad Gauge width coach mounted on a Standard Gauge bogie. The bogies are obviously "narrower" and hence the wheel sets look disguised.

Euromast

July 22nd, 2009, 07:58 PM

Binai, Do u have any pics in ur data base how the interiors will look like? and some colour pic of exterior

bhargavsura

July 22nd, 2009, 08:45 PM

I think a page or two back, we had a picture of the Shatabdi with the new coaches, wasn't it? They look good.

barrykul

July 22nd, 2009, 11:10 PM

Could you please let me know what are the advantages of a "hidden" wheel?

AND, FYI, the train in the image show above DOES NOT HAVE COVERED WHEELS. Its just that you are look at a Broad Gauge width coach mounted on a Standard Gauge bogie. The bogies are obviously "narrower" and hence the wheel sets look disguised.

Merely aesthetics that is my opinion. If you look at the India coaches the bottom coach body line leaves the innards of the wheel base exposed - ugh ugly soot filled crap. A face plate covering at least half of the wheels is the norm elsewhere.

I am sure LHB coaches in the European sector are aesthetically much better. The design for IR seems to have the inputs of Central Design Bureau of IR, door handles, top roof line, outside notice board, stair steps, window blocks (though these are wider than normal). The fit and finish is also less than stellar due to IR workshops, paint shop and steel metal works. If they are imported maal, then very poor assembly in India.

bhargavsura

July 23rd, 2009, 04:11 AM

http://epaper.hindustantimes.com/Web/HTMumbai/Article/2009/07/23/004/23_07_2009_004_020.jpg

Source: Hindustan Times

todscreen

July 23rd, 2009, 04:53 AM

thats awesome

sammyk

July 23rd, 2009, 06:25 AM

Merely aesthetics that is my opinion. If you look at the India coaches the bottom coach body line leaves the innards of the wheel base exposed - ugh ugly soot filled crap. A face plate covering at least half of the wheels is the norm elsewhere.

I am sure LHB coaches in the European sector are aesthetically much better. The design for IR seems to have the inputs of Central Design Bureau of IR, door handles, top roof line, outside notice board, stair steps, window blocks (though these are wider than normal). The fit and finish is also less than stellar due to IR workshops, paint shop and steel metal works. If they are imported maal, then very poor assembly in India.

This is the same train, the wheels aren't covered as you describe:

http://parovoz.com/newgallery/pg_view.php?ID=83800&LNG=RU#picture

sidney_jec

July 23rd, 2009, 06:36 AM

FYI, these coaches are designed by the world renowned German Coach Maker Linke Hoffman Busch (LHB, which currently trades as Alstom). You are calling these coaches drab just based on a black and white photograph.

Could you please let me know what are the advantages of a "hidden" wheel?

AND, FYI, the train in the image show above DOES NOT HAVE COVERED WHEELS. Its just that you are look at a Broad Gauge width coach mounted on a Standard Gauge bogie. The bogies are obviously "narrower" and hence the wheel sets look disguised.

dude these might be the LHB rakes but are manufactured inhouse by ICF..
IR paid a heavy sum to Alstom for tech transfer..
so its the ICF which has effectively ruined the exteriors and not Alstom..

wap5

July 23rd, 2009, 06:52 AM

dude these might be the LHB rakes but are manufactured inhouse by ICF..
IR paid a heavy sum to Alstom for tech transfer..
so its the ICF which has effectively ruined the exteriors and not Alstom..

Correction first of all LHB coaches are being manufactured at RCF kapurthala and not ICF. They have not ruined it rather they have indianised the coaches as per indian requirements By changing the fittings and fixtures.

LHB Interior shots

http://www.irfca.org/gallery/Events/lhbinaug/Exec_CC_LHB.jpg.html
http://www.irfca.org/gallery/Events/lhbinaug/CC_LHB_Int.jpg.html
http://www.irfca.org/gallery/Carriages/LHB/AP1000400.jpg.html

Original Imported Alstom LHB coach
http://www.irfca.org/gallery/Carriages/LHB/LHB002.jpg.html
http://www.irfca.org/gallery/Carriages/CarriageInteriors/IMG_0286_copy.jpg.html

Bombay Boy

July 23rd, 2009, 07:10 AM

still looks like a dabba from outside. rcf/icf will never change. nuke them

sidney_jec

July 23rd, 2009, 07:11 AM

thanks for correcting me dude..
but i was talking about the exteriors..

wap5

July 23rd, 2009, 09:07 AM

thanks for correcting me dude..
but i was talking about the exteriors..

LHB rakes which have been rolled out for the MAS-MYS Shatabdi express and the BCT-ADI Shatabdi express have this nano coating. Which means they dont have been PU painted. Offcourse when you work on the sheet metal that smoothness is not there which you would be able to see as no base has been applied to them .

Otherwise there are no visible differences on the PU painted LHB coaches manufactured at RCF and the ones made by Alstom. Infact on my recent Shatabdi journey i came across the original Alstom LHB coach which had been POHed at Jagadhari Workshop (NR) and was as good as a new coach.

Maybe Visibly you can make out a difference when i show you some examples

NANO COATING LHB GENERATOR CAR (You can see the uneven metal sheet because the coach has not been painted)

http://www.irfca.org/gallery/Events/lhbinaug/2007_LHB_2.jpg.html

NANO COATING LHB EXECUTIVE CLASS COACH
http://www.irfca.org/gallery/Events/lhbinaug/DSC_0067+OK.jpg.html

PU PAINTED LHB GENERATOR CAR

http://www.irfca.org/gallery/Carriages/LHB/lhb_at_del_safdarjang_1_vikas_chander_13_jul_2003.jpg.html

This one has an intresting history. The orignal power car which was supplied by Alstom had the same colour as the Shatabdi rake. And the railway fans often complained of Mismatched power cars being used on Rajdhani,s and Shatabdi,s which was very prelevant on WR. Hence RCF came out with this livery which has the red band of rajdhani and blue band of Shatabdi thereby allowing ops to deploy these power cars on any LHB rakes

PU PAINTED LHB A/C CHAIR CAR COACH
http://www.irfca.org/gallery/Trips/north/VivekNorthIndia200410/LHB_coaches_LKO_Shatabdi.jpg.html

So this nano coating has not only helped RCF roll out the rake asap but also cut cost on painting. Now as far as dust and dirt is concerned common we all know its there in the air you cant help it... :)

sidney_jec

July 23rd, 2009, 10:55 AM

LHB rakes which have been rolled out for the MAS-MYS Shatabdi express and the BCT-ADI Shatabdi express have this nano coating. Which means they dont have been PU painted. Offcourse when you work on the sheet metal that smoothness is not there which you would be able to see as no base has been applied to them .

Otherwise there are no visible differences on the PU painted LHB coaches manufactured at RCF and the ones made by Alstom. Infact on my recent Shatabdi journey i came across the original Alstom LHB coach which had been POHed at Jagadhari Workshop (NR) and was as good as a new coach.

Maybe Visibly you can make out a difference when i show you some examples

NANO COATING LHB GENERATOR CAR (You can see the uneven metal sheet because the coach has not been painted)

http://www.irfca.org/gallery/Events/lhbinaug/2007_LHB_2.jpg.html

NANO COATING LHB EXECUTIVE CLASS COACH
http://www.irfca.org/gallery/Events/lhbinaug/DSC_0067+OK.jpg.html

PU PAINTED LHB GENERATOR CAR

http://www.irfca.org/gallery/Carriages/LHB/lhb_at_del_safdarjang_1_vikas_chander_13_jul_2003.jpg.html

This one has an intresting history. The orignal power car which was supplied by Alstom had the same colour as the Shatabdi rake. And the railway fans often complained of Mismatched power cars being used on Rajdhani,s and Shatabdi,s which was very prelevant on WR. Hence RCF came out with this livery which has the red band of rajdhani and blue band of Shatabdi thereby allowing ops to deploy these power cars on any LHB rakes

PU PAINTED LHB A/C CHAIR CAR COACH
http://www.irfca.org/gallery/Trips/north/VivekNorthIndia200410/LHB_coaches_LKO_Shatabdi.jpg.html

So this nano coating has not only helped RCF roll out the rake asap but also cut cost on painting. Now as far as dust and dirt is concerned common we all know its there in the air you cant help it... :)

so all that this nano coating does is cut the cost..
k fair enough..
but i like the original paint..
may cost a few bucks more but the look justifies that..

binaiks

July 23rd, 2009, 02:09 PM

so all that this nano coating does is cut the cost..
k fair enough..
but i like the original paint..
may cost a few bucks more but the look justifies that..

Nano Coating DOES NOT cut cost.

However, on the long run, it reduces scope of rusting and corrosion. It would also remove the need for repainting in the near future.

sidney_jec

July 23rd, 2009, 02:20 PM

Nano Coating DOES NOT cut cost.

However, on the long run, it reduces scope of rusting and corrosion. It would also remove the need for repainting in the near future.

So this nano coating has not only helped RCF roll out the rake asap but also cut cost on painting. Now as far as dust and dirt is concerned common we all know its there in the air you cant help it... :)

whom to believe??
Wap5..do u mean to say cut costs in the long run??

Nelaturi

July 23rd, 2009, 03:14 PM

I travelled by this Shatabdi a couple of weeks ago.

Apart from the exteriors with the nano job looking pretty ordinary (they should do a proper paint job and apply a nano coating on top as done for the NR rakes in the links provided by wap5) there were a few other issues one noticed.

The stop and start has a pronounced jerk. Some knowledgable guys said that it is due to the engine coupling and the rake not being perfectly synched. Apparently, the engine's couplings are designed for the older coaches and the new LHB ones have a little more receded couplings that need an extra push when linking up. This also causes a slack that is evident in the jerks.

Once its rolling the ride is pretty smooth. (The tracks of course need a lot of work to be done to eliminate the clatter.)

The seats are a bit more narrow compared to the ones in the older rakes, and the seat extends only upto mid-thigh even for a medium sized guy like me.

However, there is far more leg room and space in between so that when the guy in front pushes back, its not in your face or lap as the older ones.

The large windows are cool and provide an excellent view of the scenery during the day time. However, during nights nothing can be seen due to the bright reflection of the coach interiors, even with the plain glass windows. Hence, we still have the old problem of not figuring out which station we are at, or passing through. In fact, once night falls you can forget about any views of outside.

There is no LCD panel also for passenger info. with or without GPS. Hopefully, they'll be fitted soon.

Food served was pretty mediocre and the packaging is not user friendly, with the need to use your teeth to open the sealed packets.

The toilets are a big improvement on the older ones.

They have stopped playing that awful piped music except just a few minutes before the stops, which is a major relief. One can relax with a book or have a quiet nap. Thanks to the railways for that. The last time, this was a major implement of torture throughout the journey.

However, more relevant passenger info can be provided, either through LCD panels or the audio system. Specially, if and when the train is delayed and also on upcoming stations/halts.

barrykul

July 23rd, 2009, 10:16 PM

Well looks like the Nano painting is not used on the roof top. The grey light blue is a much better scheme.

I still feel aesthetics wise the new LHB coaches look and feel like the old coaches albeit with larger windows and flush doors/handles. A quarter height covering for the wheels would make a major difference and if the roof is integrated with the rest as one continuous piece including paint then the appearance would improve drastically.

The LHB coaches are the minimum type required for IR, the old dabbas should be replaced promptly with the new ones and iron can be recycled or sold.

On the engine side there is a long way to go. The current most modern engine is barely passable in modern looks. India needs to employ its engineering talent to good use and come up with an ultra modern efficient design. I have very little hope that the current visionless Neta-Babu leadership would deliver such a change.

wap5

July 24th, 2009, 07:23 AM

wap5

July 24th, 2009, 07:55 AM

On the engine side there is a long way to go. The current most modern engine is barely passable in modern looks. India needs to employ its engineering talent to good use and come up with an ultra modern efficient design. I have very little hope that the current visionless Neta-Babu leadership would deliver such a change.

Here is where i actually differ with you. If you are talking about the locomotives today IR has locomotives which can run trains at higher speed. It has a loco which can haul 24/26 coachers at stable speeds.

In 1993 when IR went into TOT with ABB ( now part of the Bombardier group) it acquired 21 freight locos named as WAG-9 which were 6000 hp AC 3 phase locos and 10 passenger locos named as WAP-5 which is again 5400 hp AC 3 phase locos.

While the freight ones were initially based in GMO (Gomoh) the passenger locos were alloted to GZB (Ghaziabad) Shed to cater to the Rajdhani/ Shatabdi services from the Capital. The first train to get the WAP-5 was 2302/2301 Howrah Rajdhani and later progresively these locos were hauling other rajdhani,s and Shatabdi,s.

The Salient feature of the WAP-5,s are:-

Its the fastest locomotive on Indian Railways.
Max Service Speed: 160KMPH
Test Speed: Already tested at 184KMPH on Indian Tracks
Design Speed Potential: 220Kmph
Most track friendly loco just weighing 79 tonnes .

WAP-5,s have been designed at SLW Swiss Locomotive Works which was one of the ABB,s manufactring units. It is a custom built design evolved from the famous Class RE 460 series which is one of the successfull SLW product and widely being used in SBB. In Switzerland various corporate companies hire locos and use it for their advertising. WAP-5,s use the AGFA livery as the rly official who went to Switzerland found the Class 460 locos in agfa liverly really cute. Here are the links below

Class RE 460 loco
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Re_460_mit_IC2000_zwischen_Winterthur_und_Z%C3%BCrich.jpg

WAP-5 Loco
http://www.irfca.org/gallery/Events/trials/IMG_06621.JPG.html

barrykul

July 24th, 2009, 08:13 PM

Here is where i actually differ with you. If you are talking about the locomotives today IR has locomotives which can run trains at higher speed. It has a loco which can haul 24/26 coachers at stable speeds.

In 1993 when IR went into TOT with ABB ( now part of the Bombardier group) it acquired 21 freight locos named as WAG-9 which were 6000 hp AC 3 phase locos and 10 passenger locos named as WAP-5 which is again 5400 hp AC 3 phase locos.

While the freight ones were initially based in GMO (Gomoh) the passenger locos were alloted to GZB (Ghaziabad) Shed to cater to the Rajdhani/ Shatabdi services from the Capital. The first train to get the WAP-5 was 2302/2301 Howrah Rajdhani and later progresively these locos were hauling other rajdhani,s and Shatabdi,s.

The Salient feature of the WAP-5,s are:-

Its the fastest locomotive on Indian Railways.
Max Service Speed: 160KMPH
Test Speed: Already tested at 184KMPH on Indian Tracks
Design Speed Potential: 220Kmph
Most track friendly loco just weighing 79 tonnes .

WAP-5,s have been designed at SLW Swiss Locomotive Works which was one of the ABB,s manufactring units. It is a custom built design evolved from the famous Class RE 460 series which is one of the successfull SLW product and widely being used in SBB. In Switzerland various corporate companies hire locos and use it for their advertising. WAP-5,s use the AGFA livery as the rly official who went to Switzerland found the Class 460 locos in agfa liverly really cute. Here are the links below

Class RE 460 loco
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Re_460_mit_IC2000_zwischen_Winterthur_und_Z%C3%BCrich.jpg

WAP-5 Loco
http://www.irfca.org/gallery/Events/trials/IMG_06621.JPG.html

If you look at the Swiss version it is aesthetically more pleasing than the IR version any day. The only thing I agree is that, compared to the junk pile operated by IR, WAP-5 is much better. However IR still has miles to go in terms of speeds, stability and design aesthetics. We need to catch up with TGV, Japan and other European nations that operate higher speeds with sleeker designs. I have a calendar of trains every year hanging in my room and flip through some beautiful pictures of trains worldwide. IR does not come close to any of them. An Italian version of high speed train is styled by the famed Pinninfarina group, gorgeous styling.

The point I want to make is that it is possible to unleash Indian Engineering talent with a singular mission - make an Indian Locomotive Electric or Diesel that has world beating specs, design aesthetics uniquely Indian and cost effective. I am sure they will be up to the challenge and perhaps come up with a path breaking design. We don't need to run to Swiss/German/US existing designs, we can certainly learn from their experience, expertize. But like Tata Nano demonstrated that Indian Engineering is second to none and the Chandrayaan moon mission exemplified the can do attitude, IR, with more resources than Tata, can come up with a national design program that is both a matter of strategic importance and cost effectiveness. We can be doubly proud of such an achievement.

octopusop

July 25th, 2009, 08:36 AM

Indian Rail's just a snail (http://business.rediff.com/special/2009/jul/16/spec-indian-rails-just-a-snail.htm)

Thank God there's Rabindranath Tagore [ Images ], so Mamata Banerjee [ Images ] could quote him to spice up her 2009-10 railway budget speech. And thank God there's China, so we can compare notes and check out how good her fare really is. And what we find is that it is old fast-food cooked anew, instantly palatable but a potential killer.

In a growing economy, can we afford to ride a snail? We need a railway system that's fast, dynamic, and expanding. We don't have one and won't have it till the time non-stop trains continue to be the best we can think of. Will they run fast? Faster than India's current fastest, the Rajdhani and the Shatabdi expresses, whose average speed is no more than 80 km per hour? If they don't run fast, they won't make much of a difference. In a country where any train that runs at 55 km per hour or more is called super-fast, we'll only have a few more. In plainer language, only a few more gimmicks.

How fast are our goods trains? No more than 19 km to 30 km per hour in different part of the country. In eight years from now, when some 3,000 km of dedicated freight corridors ( forming only a tiny segment of our total network) are expected to be in service, a few of them could - just could - be running at 100 km an hour. Some benchmark indeed for 2020 India!

Look at China. After six reviews and continuous upgrading, the average speed on the Chinese railways has shot up to 200 km per hour from 55 km per hour in 1997. There will be 35 high-speed routes by 2012, with trains running at between 200 km and 350 km per hour.

At least 50,000 km of dedicated high-speed passenger railways will be on the ground by 2020. Thus, existing tracks will be freed up for cargo trains, whose average speed is already 120 km per hour.

The difference between the two countries is even more glaring when it comes to new construction. Mamata Banerjee's budget provides for only 250 km of new lines in the current fiscal year. The provisions for the previous two years were for 350 km and 155 km of new lines, respectively.

Is that enough for a country whose economy is expected to grow by 8-9 per cent a year and which wants a fair geographical distribution of growth? We've gone through almost two decades of economic reforms, but our route length has grown from 62,367 km in 1990 to only about 63,350 km now. Do you call that progress? Can we go on flogging a limited network without sacrificing speed and efficiency and adding to congestion?

More than 75 per cent of India's railway goods-traffic moves on about 20,000 km of fully saturated, over-utilised, and low-capacity lines. One day, it will simply choke.

In China, on the other hand, over 2,500 km of new lines were built in 2008 and another 3,450 km will be built in 2009. The new goal is to add 6,000 km of new tracks every year till 2020. China's network currently stands at 80,750 km, making it the third-largest in the world after the US and Russia [ Images ]. By 2020, it will have hit 120,000 km, of which 50 per cent will be double-tracked and 60 per cent electrified. What will India have by then?

Network expansion has naturally meant more business for the Chinese railways. They have three times the number of wagons India has - 600,000 against 200,000 - and moved 3.3 billion tonnes of cargo last year, against India's 833 million tonnes. What is India's target for 2009-10? No more than 882 million tonnes. For a vast and growing economy like India's, it's nothing but a joke.

The other difference is that the Chinese know the value of time. We don't. Beijing's [ Images ] 126-acre West station, commissioned in 1996 and said to be the largest in Asia, was built in three years.

Work on the 1,318-km. Beijing-to-Shanghai high-speed railway, a brand new line meant to cut travel time between the two cities from 14 hours to five - mark that - began in April 2008 and is to be completed by 2013. What's our schedule, say, for making 50 of our stations 'world class'? We don't know. The budget doesn't say anything on that. The budget debate has revealed that many past promises have remained unfulfilled so far.

So, you may draw your own conclusions. Mamata says it's a continuous process, whatever that means. And, as the previous railway minister, Lalu Prasad, admits, not all promises are meant to be implemented.

Thus, while China goes on to cover the entire country with high-speed trains to bolster its economic growth, we are happy to tinker with whatever we have, much like a child playing with his toy-train set, adjusting it here and there and deriving pleasure from it. It's a game we play, rolling out new promises to hide old failures, with no sync with the real economy.

barrykul

July 25th, 2009, 11:58 PM

^^

Article captures what many have been saying for the past few years and even on this thread. I don't know what time warp these Neta-Babus of India exist in but clearly the rest of India is tired of these lack lustre budgets and myopic vision. Instead of doling out a few hundred crores here and there, the nation needs to set aside Rs 100,000+ crores. The money would go for a wholesale revamp and work will start simultaneously in all zones/sub-zones/mini-zones/stations. The money will be worth spending since for several decades nothing much was done.

On CST Mumbai, I don't understand how a junky relic of a building gets UNESCO status, only to preserve some British inspired gothic nonsense in India. Why cannot India raze this junk and get on with building a modern railway terminal. We own the land and the nation.

Naresh

July 26th, 2009, 12:45 AM

.
octopusop Ji :

I refer to your post of Yesterday, July 25th 08:36 AM

Your comparison of China’s Railway System with the Indian Railways System lacks substance which one is given to believe that it is due to lack of knowledge.

China’s Size in respect of its Area is about Three times that of India and is similar to that of the United States of America. Please note that the USA “Mileage” is 226,612 Kilometres.

Whilst being One-Third of China’s Area India has about 65,000 Kilometres of Route “Mileage” where as China’s Route “Mileage” is about 80,000 Kilometres.

With a Route “Mileage” of Indian Railway being about 20% less than China’s the Indian Railways cater to about Seven Billion Rail Passenger Journeys Annually where as in “Mighty and Modernized” China case it would be “hopefully” around the 1.5 Billion mark.

With such a Corresponding Large Number of Passenger Trains being run on a 20% smaller Railway System, compared to China, it necessarily follows that the Passenger Train speeds must be restricted to ensure that the trains do not pile into one another. Please note that Indian Railways runs about 9,000 Passenger Trains Daily whereas the Chinese Railways runs about 3,000 Passenger Trains Daily.

With the large number of Passenger Trains the Indian Goods Trains suffer even more as the Passenger Trains have a “Priority” over Goods Train.

This does not in any way permit India to use this “Excuse” for time immemorial and as such a “Railway Route Quadrangular” is envisaged so as to reduce the Density of Traffic thereby enabling a corresponding increase of speed.

Cheers:cheers:

Bombay Boy

July 26th, 2009, 05:40 AM

On CST Mumbai, I don't understand how a junky relic of a building gets UNESCO status, only to preserve some British inspired gothic nonsense in India. Why cannot India raze this junk and get on with building a modern railway terminal. We own the land and the nation.

are you serious? thats one of the worst posts i have read on this forum

can we not compare india and china. its depressing

mittal.fdk

July 26th, 2009, 05:58 AM

Guys does anyone know any updates on modernization of New Delhi Railway Station??? Has the construction begun??

Can anyone post any pics??

Will it be ready before commonwealth games??

octopusop

July 26th, 2009, 08:15 AM

.
Whilst being One-Third of China’s Area India has about 65,000 Kilometres of Route “Mileage” where as China’s Route “Mileage” is about 80,000 Kilometres.

With a Route “Mileage” of Indian Railway being about 20% less than China’s the Indian Railways cater to about Seven Billion Rail Passenger Journeys Annually where as in “Mighty and Modernized” China case it would be “hopefully” around the 1.5 Billion mark.

With such a Corresponding Large Number of Passenger Trains being run on a 20% smaller Railway System, compared to China, it necessarily follows that the Passenger Train speeds must be restricted to ensure that the trains do not pile into one another. Please note that Indian Railways runs about 9,000 Passenger Trains Daily whereas the Chinese Railways runs about 3,000 Passenger Trains Daily.

The passenger transport of chinese railways was 720 billion passenger-km, vs 660 billion passenger-km of Indian. The difference was making by no suburban passenger in China, suburban trains were eliminated 20 years ago, replaced by buses and metroes. Beijing metro and Shanghai metro transport 5 million passengers everyday each other, there are 37 billion passengers for the 2 metroes, and there are 15 cities who have metro.

robertashok

July 26th, 2009, 10:19 AM

Naresh

July 26th, 2009, 10:22 AM

The passenger transport of chinese railways was 720 billion passenger-km, vs 660 billion passenger-km of Indian. The difference was making by no suburban passenger in China, suburban trains were eliminated 20 years ago, replaced by buses and metroes. Beijing metro and Shanghai metro transport 5 million passengers everyday each other, there are 37 billion passengers for the 2 metroes, and there are 15 cities who have metro.

octopusop Ji :

As I thought to myself you are as Thick as Two Planks.

China's Area is Three Times that of India and as such China’s "Passenger-KM" should be three times that of India i.e. 1980 Billion P-K, but, it is only 760 B P-K thus only 38% of what it should be – Wake up and smell the Coffee!

I hope you get it now!!

The other reason for the “Shortage” of Development Funds is that the Indian Railways “Heavily Subsidize” Passenger Fare.

FYI : The Fare From Jammu to Kanyakumari – a distance of 3,715 KM – is about USD 37. This is for Three-Tier Air Conditioned Sleeping Berth and is neither Dormitory Style nor “Hard Bed” (as termed in one of the Cheaper Classes in China’s Railways).

Compare this Fare with the corresponding Distance and Accommodation of China Railways and you will then have a clue of what Indian Railways is all about!!!

Cheers:cheers:

Naresh

July 26th, 2009, 10:30 AM

After Spending almost two years in Japan with more chinese than Japanese.

Even with the progress made by china they are not speaking highly about , when questioned about them, they say we know what is happening.

But when i talk to my relatives in rural area and tier 2 cities of tamilnadu.
They are saying definitely something has changing almost every year there is some progress and hopeful than the chennai counterparts.

I really do not know, is this the media which is giving the wrong notion to us.

robertashok Ji :

Domo Domo Arigato Gozaimashta Dozo.

Just compare the Passenger Fares - in comparable accommodation - in respect of Chinese and Indian Railways and you will realize the difference.

I agree with you that there is considerable progress in the Indian Railways but I alwo agree that much more requires to be done.

The Indian Desi Dork Media are basically Arm Chair "Analists" and with the Indian Newspapers "copying" the UK Tabloid Press "Sensational News" is the order of the day!

Cheers:cheers:

sidney_jec

July 27th, 2009, 08:23 AM

Seems Ms Banerjee wants a slice of history in her name..
Not surprising that this is the first train she's flagging off..
The Hindu (http://www.thehindu.com/2009/07/27/stories/2009072760441200.htm)

Andolan Express between Singur, Howrah from August 1

Ananya Dutta

KOLKATA: Railways Minister Mamata Banerjee on Sunday said ‘Andolan Express,’ a train between Singur and Howrah, will run from August 1 — a significant announcement considering the movement she led against the alleged forcible acquisition of farmland for industry at Singur was repeatedly referred to during her party’s Lok Sabha election campaign.

Much of last year saw a prolonged agitation that was launched in 2007 by a section of local farmers at Singur, which finally led to Tata Motors deciding to relocate its proposed small car Nano project to Gujarat.

In the Railway budget speech earlier this month, Ms. Banerjee also proposed that Singur be one of the 375 stations to be developed as an ‘Adarsh’ (model) station this year.

Speaking at the inauguration of a computerised railway reservation centre at New Alipore station here, Ms. Banerjee expressed concerns about price rise, and said that at a time when life for the masses was becoming difficult, the railways were decentralising its facilities for their benefit. “The Railways will open 1,000 such counters all over the country,” she said.

She also announced that a postage stamp on the Indian Railways will be released on August 16. Ms. Banerjee said projects announced by the railways, including upgrading stations and developing some stations as multi-functional complexes, will increase the infrastructure and revenue of the State and the earnings of the common people.

beam

July 27th, 2009, 11:06 AM

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/2009/07/27/stories/2009072750821300.htm

Business Daily from THE HINDU group of publications
Monday, Jul 27, 2009

Kolkata-Patna Garib Rath made losses; so did others: CAG

New Delhi, July 26 The low-cost air-conditioned train, Garib Rath, plying between Kolkata and Patna had poor occupancy levels — below 8 per cent (chair car) and 22 per cent (AC III tier) — in 2007-08. This was the case with eight out of 11 Garib Raths trains reviewed by the audit committee of CAG.

Inadequate periodic assessment of the demand and absence of cost-benefit analysis rendered nearly 30 per cent of the new trains introduced in nine zones operationally unviable.

sidney_jec

July 27th, 2009, 11:10 AM

^^ that just can't be true..
the report must be sponsored by Mamta and her likes..
wenever i tried booking a ticket on the NDLS-BDTS garib rath all i could end up with was >=100 W/L and this includes the lean season too..
since Patna - Kolkata is a similar stretch and considering the fact that the rajdhanis and the shatabdis are always full 8-10 % occupancy levels can be nothing but figment of ones imagination

engineer.akash

July 27th, 2009, 10:02 PM

More roomy, comfy travel on Shatabdi

Staff Reporter

BANGALORE: The journey between Bangalore and Chennai has just become more comfortable for hundreds of Shatabdi passengers, as the Railways has introduced state-of-the-art LHB (Linke Holfmann Bush) coaches for one of the two pairs of Shatabdis running between the two cities. LHB coaches were first used in the Shatabdi trains running between Lucknow and Delhi in 2000. LHB is a German technology. The coaches are being manufactured under licence at the Rail Coach Factory, Kapurtala.Because of sophisticated construction, LHB coaches are wider compared to regular coaches and offers more space and leg-room for passengers with enhanced comfort levels. Says Aniruddh K.G., a regular traveller between Bangalore and Chennai: “The comfort levels in these coaches are superior to regular coaches. I always prefer to travel by this particular train (2007/2008).” The new set of coaches was introduced from July 1 on this route.

This Shatabdi, Chennai-Bangalore-Mysore Express, arrives at Bangalore city at 10.30 a.m. from Chennai and leaves for Mysore at 10.45 a.m. The train arrives from Mysore at 4.10 p.m., and leaves for Chennai at 4.25 p.m. As against 512 seats in the chair car section, this train has 724 seats while in the executive class, the number of seats are 66 as against 46 in the regular coaches. The toilets are fitted with controlled discharge system. Only when the train is running beyond 30 km an hour will the toilet bowls open.

http://www.hindu.com/2009/07/28/stories/2009072850390200.htm

qwertyasd

July 28th, 2009, 02:11 AM

qwertyasd

July 28th, 2009, 02:17 AM

barrykul

July 28th, 2009, 03:43 AM

The toilets are fitted with controlled discharge system. Only when the train is running beyond 30 km an hour will the toilet bowls open.

Well this is a big step from stinking up the whole railway station. But seriously, why do they discharge the stuff when running. The stuff should be cleared whenever the train stops at railway station and the sewage service line hooked up and discharged into the sewer line. (Better still into the Railway Bhavan) If this is not done then the train is not cleared to leave the station. Why ruin the pristine countryside with more effluents. Whatever happened to the technology that the Railways were testing from IIT-K that processed sewage.

the average speed on the Chinese railways has shot up to 200 km per hour from 55 km per hour in 1997

I believe this is gross exaggeration 200km/hr is 125 miles/hr. If all trains are averaging this then the trains must be traveling at around 200 miles/hr which is not true.

idontspam

July 28th, 2009, 10:56 AM

The toilets are fitted with controlled discharge system. Only when the train is running beyond 30 km an hour will the toilet bowls open.

http://www.hindu.com/2009/07/28/stories/2009072850390200.htm

It is going to be messy if they keep the toilet doors open and the bowls closed. We dont trust our citizens to keep the place clean. Its a habit that if we have to go we have to go, somewhere in that place, bowl open or shut. This is a good move anyway and I hope it works, it will atleast keep the stations clean.

Naresh

July 28th, 2009, 11:12 AM

You still do not answer the question: If there is so much congestion and slow-down on existing lines, why not build new lines dedicated for freight and high-speed travel?

Why not upgrade the railway stations to world standards?

Are we just sitting on what the British gave us and will milk that infra forever?

qwertyasd Ji:

Thank you for your valued comment.

Seems you are wearing “Coloured Glasses” of the same type as octopusop Ji

You have asked :

1. Why not build new lines dedicated for freight and high-speed travel?

2. Why not upgrade the railway stations to world standards?

The answer lies in the my post July 26th, 2009, 10:22 AM and I shall quote it again :

The other reason for the “Shortage” of Development Funds is that the Indian Railways “Heavily Subsidize” Passenger Fare.

This amplified by my stating the “Low” Passenger Fare as compared to the World in General and China in Particular.

You further stated :

Are we just sitting on what the British gave us and will milk that infra forever?

Please visit the Asia(?) Library or the British Information Library in Mumbai (Part of the British Deputy High Commission) and refer to Jane’s World Railways.

Check on the Figures – for 1948 and 2008 - in respect of :

1.Route Mileage – I believe it has been increased by 25%

2. Electrified Route Mileage : I believe increased by about 17,000 Kilometres

3. Track Mileage - Possibly Doubled, if not more.

4. Conversion of Metre and Narrow Gauges to Broad Gauge : Possibly 20,000 Kilometres – if not more.

5. Increase of Rolling Stock i.e. Locomotives, Passenger Coaches and Goods Wagons.

5. Increase in the Number of Passenger Journeys – May be 20 Times, if not more.

All the above coupled with Heavy Subsidizing of Passenger Fares will provide you the Answers.

In case you are unable to “Refer” to Jane’s World of Railways then let me know and I will let you have the above and any other details you may require within a Weak or possibly a Fortnight.

Remember the Indian Railway Passenger System is not the Multi Millionaire High-Fi Four Channel Surround Sound Upper Strata but for the Ordinary Narayan Abdul Singh D’Souza Batliwala Ben Canaan.

Suggestion : May be you might find all the above information on the IRFCA(?)
Web Site

Cheers:cheers:

robertashok

July 28th, 2009, 01:31 PM

Agreed Naresh,

That we are paying the lowest travel fee in the world for railways, But sure there can be scope to improve.

Instead of building a long travel fast trains where flights could solve the purpose, we can have superfast trains connecting important business cities like chennai-bangalore, pune-mumbai, Coimbatore-Chennai,Coimbatore-Trivandrum,Coimbatore-Bangalore.

I am sure these lines can provide more profits for railways with even 3 times current fare.

PaulAdams

July 28th, 2009, 03:30 PM

Hi..New to this Forum.

Is the Madhepura locomotive project still on....And would international rolling stock companies be interested in bidding this time (unlike last time)??

barrykul

July 28th, 2009, 06:34 PM

dhim100

July 28th, 2009, 07:09 PM

Our pseudo-Communist railway minister will never announce the privatization of railway stations.

Neither will our honorable half-communist FM mention whether we are going to privatize old slumdogs like Air India, etc.

Totally agree. I am still sad over not seeing Montek Singh Ahaluwalia as an FM. Montek Singh was the victim of dirty politics. He would have become 10 times better than the current FM.

Naresh

July 28th, 2009, 10:42 PM

Nareshji, your keen sense of stats is appreciated about the railways. However to sightly disagree with your study, IR is stuck in the 20th century and now needs to move into the 21st century. Other nations have transitioned and, no, we not talking about merely China or Europe or US but countries like Indonesia, Philippines etc.

To use your "Ordinary Narayan Abdul Singh D’Souza Batliwala Ben Canaan" Indian person, they are riding on Delhi Metro's gleaming "High-Fi Four Channel Surround Sound" 21st century metro system which at last count is running profitably. When there is an example within India of a better system, IR can start learning on how to upgrade itself and rationalize its fares and its personnel head count bloat. Bottom line IR, despite its glorious central planning committee scaling new statistical heights, has been lagging in modernization commensurate with a nation the size of India. People traveling in upgraded better service trains are willing to pay more. Invest first and then reap the rewards, just like Delhi Metro has demonstrated.

barrykul Ji :

1. the Indian Railways is still stuck in 20th Century with over 60 per cent of the Population stuck in the 19th Century.

2. One must compare Apples with Apples and not with Plums or Raspberries.

To compare Philippines and Indonesia with India is like comparing Apples with Plums and Rasberries as India has a Population of 1,155 Million compared to Indonesia's 240 Million and Philippines' 98 Million.

At this rate you may start comparing India to Singapore - Nothing stops you!

Here is some information form the Indian Railways Year Book 2006-2007

Table I. Number of Passengers originating (http://www.indianrailways.gov.in/deptts/stat-eco/yearbook-0607/passenger-business.pdf)

Non – Suburban Travel :

Upper Class : 58 Millions

Second Class – Mail / Express : 713 Millions

Second class Ordinary : 1,934 Millions

Total Second Class : 2,647 Millions

Total Non- Suburban : 2,705 Millions

Thus the Upper-Class Travellers amount to 58 Million whereas the "Ordinary Narayan Abdul Singh D’Souza Batliwala Ben Canaan" Indian person i.e. Second Class Travellers amount to 2,647 Million i.e. the Upper Class Railway Travellers are only 2.144 Per Cent and the "Ordinary Narayan Abdul Singh D’Souza Batliwala Ben Canaan" Indian persons are nearly 98% of the Indian Railway Passengers.

As such you will appreciate the "Priorities" of the Indian Railways Passenger Division.

Many thanks for giving the example of the Delhi Metro's gleaming "High-Fi Four Channel Surround Sound" 21st century metro system which at last count is running profitably.

You seem to have forgotten the "Ultra Low Rate" Loans from Indian Government as well as ADB, WB etc.

Regarding the Passengers : An overwhelming majority are the "Empoyed" Class travelling who are doing it for commuting to and from their Place of work for "Earning" their Daily Bread.

Therein lies the difference.

Non-Suburban Travel in Indian Railways is mainly with Family and even if it is for a Single Person then these reason are not contributing to the Traveller's "Earning Capacity"

Please check the Passenger Fares for European, Chinese, Japanese Railway Systems' Suburban and Non-Suburban Traffic.

For your guidance, In London I pay £ 150 for a Monthly Second Class Ticket which covers a Distance of about 12 Miles.

If 50% of the cost of the Season Ticket is in Salaries, then for the Equipment and Fuel Cost it is about £ 75 i.e. over 5,000 Indian Rupees.

For the Cheapest Ticket during Off-Peak Hours from London to Bournemouth - a distance of 103 Miles (a bit less than Mumbai-Pune) covered in Two Hours and costs £ 36 and if we take half as the cost being Salaries than the cost for the Equipment and Fuel would be £ 18 i.e. about 1,400 Indian Rupees.

Do you think that the Indian "High-Fi Four Channel Surround Sound" Nouveau Riche would pay such Fares for travelling from Mumbai to Pune on the Deccan Queen?

I can confidently state that in these cases the Indian Trains will run "EMPTY"!

In ending I would encourage you to be ambitious but at the same time I would also advise you to Aim for the Stars but climb one Storey at a time!!

An alternative would be for you to provide the desired "Investments" as the Indian Government is already "groaning" under the effects of "Heavy Deficit" Financing!!!

Cheers:cheers:

barrykul

July 29th, 2009, 06:35 PM

Nareshji thank you for the spirited discussion.

A few counter points to your arguments. On the issue of £ vs Rs, these comparisons are odious, since we have to measure ourselves as percentage of income earned in the Rs context. Otherwise we would be chasing goblins, e.g. in Iceland the Krona or whatever took a bloodbath vs $. So let us stick to Rs. The Tata Nano example should provide comfort that it is possible to get quality at Indian Rs low prices, but yet is a large amount for the average Indian "Narayan Abdul Singh D’Souza Batliwala Ben Canaan" (NASDBBC).

An alternative would be for you to provide the desired "Investments" as the Indian Government is already "groaning" under the effects of "Heavy Deficit" Financing!

Yes, Indian Govt is groaning because of the free giveaways in NREGA, free power, Rs 2 rice scheme, free color TV, endless useless irrigation projects, bloated staff, Air India, AAI, corruption, swiss bank stashaway by Netas/Babus. While the groaning has happened for decades, there is little effort to invest in the important things even if groans become louder, would pay of in the long run.

And finally, to view the IR as virtuous blemish free org that is trying to do its best given the constraints is a laughable proposition. the inbuilt sloth, incompetent Neta-Babu shuffle, corruption, bad practices, faulty workshops, myopic planning .. very long list really, contributes to overall end product. Sometime I wish we start afresh, from scratch, abolish the IR completely.

The NASDBBC has not been exposed to "High-Fi Four Channel Surround Sound" but would gladly adapt to one if that is the alternative.

qwertyasd

July 29th, 2009, 08:56 PM

qwertyasd Ji:

Thank you for your valued comment.

Seems you are wearing “Coloured Glasses” of the same type as octopusop Ji

You have asked :

1. Why not build new lines dedicated for freight and high-speed travel?

2. Why not upgrade the railway stations to world standards?

The answer lies in the my post July 26th, 2009, 10:22 AM and I shall quote it again :

The other reason for the “Shortage” of Development Funds is that the Indian Railways “Heavily Subsidize” Passenger Fare.

This amplified by my stating the “Low” Passenger Fare as compared to the World in General and China in Particular.

You further stated :

Are we just sitting on what the British gave us and will milk that infra forever?

Please visit the Asia(?) Library or the British Information Library in Mumbai (Part of the British Deputy High Commission) and refer to Jane’s World Railways.

Check on the Figures – for 1948 and 2008 - in respect of :

1.Route Mileage – I believe it has been increased by 25%

2. Electrified Route Mileage : I believe increased by about 17,000 Kilometres

3. Track Mileage - Possibly Doubled, if not more.

4. Conversion of Metre and Narrow Gauges to Broad Gauge : Possibly 20,000 Kilometres – if not more.

5. Increase of Rolling Stock i.e. Locomotives, Passenger Coaches and Goods Wagons.

5. Increase in the Number of Passenger Journeys – May be 20 Times, if not more.

All the above coupled with Heavy Subsidizing of Passenger Fares will provide you the Answers.

In case you are unable to “Refer” to Jane’s World of Railways then let me know and I will let you have the above and any other details you may require within a Weak or possibly a Fortnight.

Remember the Indian Railway Passenger System is not the Multi Millionaire High-Fi Four Channel Surround Sound Upper Strata but for the Ordinary Narayan Abdul Singh D’Souza Batliwala Ben Canaan.

Suggestion : May be you might find all the above information on the IRFCA(?)
Web Site

Cheers:cheers:

Nareshji: I think there is a problem with you keeping the Govt of India separate from the Indian Railways.

You are basically saying that the govt is screwing with railway finances and hence the railways is not able to advance at the appropriate rate. Hence, the railways is not to be blamed but the govt.

But, for me, both are one and the same - the Railways is an arm of the govt!
So, when the govt fails, the railways fails and vice versa.

Naresh

July 29th, 2009, 10:56 PM

^^^^

barrykul Ji & qwertyasd Ji :

One could not disagree "en toto" with the sentiments expressed by the both of you but one must always appreciate the nature of and the constraints on trying to run “Behemoth” Public Services (whether in the Private or Government Sector).

The British Railways were Privatized with “Great Fanfare" into three Divisions i.e.

1. Passenger Services

2. Freight Services

3. Infrastructure such as Railway Stations, Tracks, Signalling etc.

The Passenger Services now get Two Billion Pounds Sterling Annually as "Passenger Subsidy".

The Freight Services are making money Hand over Fist but they are Separate Private Entities thus they do not have to share their Profits i.e. Subsidize the other Two Entities.

Network Rail – The Infrastructure Arm – had to be “Re-Nationalized” and more Good Money is being Pumped in after Bad!

As Ninety Eight Per Cent of the Passengers are of the “NASDBBC” Group thus I do feel that Progress will be made but much more slowly than “INSTANT”

Progress will have to be made in India as Education is creating an awakening – more so in the “NASDBBC” Group and as such the Improvements in Indian Railways make take time but eventually they “will get there”

P. S. : I, for one, am totally against Public Undertakings but in certain Sectors have to “tolerate” them out of necessity.

Thus Aim for the Stars but Climb One Storey at a Time!

Cheers:cheers:

wap5

July 30th, 2009, 09:12 AM

And finally, to view the IR as virtuous blemish free org that is trying to do its best given the constraints is a laughable proposition. the inbuilt sloth, incompetent Neta-Babu shuffle, corruption, bad practices, faulty workshops, myopic planning .. very long list really, contributes to overall end product. Sometime I wish we start afresh, from scratch, abolish the IR completely.

The NASDBBC has not been exposed to "High-Fi Four Channel Surround Sound" but would gladly adapt to one if that is the alternative.

Hi first of all lets not compare ourselves with China. We being a democratic nation have our own perils which is that we need to take descions after taking every sect of society in agreement esp when the Goverment is being run by a ruling coalition of various political parties.

Now if we talk purely in context with IR we would realize that it is due to cross subsidization that all this mess up is there. The actual cost which is involved in running non aircon trains which is a loss making venture due to cheaper artificial fares being charged to the passenger is actually being recovered from the freight operations.

Secondly because of costs involved in development of this infrastructure we find IR looking at Govt of India for budgetary support.

Yes we do have mixed usage of tracks ie freight trains, suburban trains, intercity trains running on same set of tracks which has led to higher congestion on routes. With the coming up of DFC we do expect the problem of congestion to be done away with

octopusop

July 30th, 2009, 01:47 PM

USA was a democratic nation when she built the world largest highway net and railway net. Democracy is a damned poor excuse.

Bombay Boy

July 30th, 2009, 02:03 PM

exactly. democracy is hardly an excuse for slummy stations and beaten up dabbas

if vajpayee had not started the highways programme we would still be talking about how india cannot build highways and even arguments on why we shouldnt build them

if praful patel hadnt started the airports modernisation we would have heard the same speech from the apologists

all it takes is some vision and balls. indian railways sadly seems to be lacking both

sidney_jec

July 30th, 2009, 02:16 PM

plus whatever good had been implemented/planned (ignoring the cons for time being) under Laloos regime is set to be undone by the pseudo communist Mamta Banerjee

ajithv

July 30th, 2009, 04:54 PM

Lok Sabha

Modernization and technological upgradation of the railway system is an ongoing process and is one of the thrust areas of the 11th Five Year Plan (2007-2012). Various modernization activities covering passenger business, freight business and other areas were identified for implementation in the Integrated Railway Modernization Plan (IRMP) for the period 2005-2010. The plan to improve safety in signaling system include provision of route relay interlocking/panel interlocking/electronic interlocking, colour light signaling, LED Signals, axle counters, track circuiting, data loggers, onboard train protection system and interlocking of level crossing gates. To improve telecom infrastructure, it is planned to provide Optic Fibre and Quad Cables and Mobile Train Radio Communication, Satellite Communication and Voice Recorders.

Modern technology and systems not only prevent failures including human errors, they enable detection of failures like rail fractures, other equipment failures and obstruction of track etc. During the last three years, 12,530 kilometers of track renewals have been done; 20,200 route kilometers of Optic Fibre and Quad Cable laid, Mobile Train Radio Communication (MTRC) commissioned on 700 route kilometers, 230 remote locations connected through V-Set Network and Voice Recorders provided in all Control Offices.

This information was given by the Minister of State for Ministry of Railways, Shri K. H. Muniyappa in a written reply in Lok Sabha today.

Source (http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=51247)

ajithv

July 30th, 2009, 04:55 PM

Lok Sabha

As per the announcement made in the Railway Budget 2009-10, Advance Reservation Period (ARP) for Tatkal Scheme has already been revised from 5 days to 2 days for journeys commencing from August 1, 2009. Action has also been initiated to make this scheme available destination-wise and for levying of revised minimum Tatkal charges.

All accommodation including general and Tatkal accommodation is meant for general passengers with the only difference of Advance Reservation Period. Creation of additional reserved accommodation is a continuous process for which Railways run new trains, augment the load of existing trains, run special trains, etc.

This information was given by the Minister of State for Ministry of Railways, Shri K. H. Muniyappa in a written reply in Lok Sabha today.

Source (http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=51251)

ajithv

July 31st, 2009, 05:10 PM

The railway ministry is in the process of approving the detailed project report, prepared by Rites Ltd, for the proposed rail factory at Palakkad in Kerala. The project is estimated to cost Rs 1,215 crore. The Kerala government will provide 1,000 acres of land free of cost for the rail coach factory that will have a manufacturing capacity of 600 coaches per year.
The ministry is also setting up a new coach factory with an annual manufacturing capacity of 1,000 coaches at Rae Bareilly, Uttar Pradesh, at an estimated cost of Rs 1,685 crore. It has also announced the setting up of a state-of-the-art facility in Kancharapara-Halisahar railway complex in West Bengal for manufacturing 500 EMU/MEMU and metro coaches per annum. Details of both these projects are being worked out.

Source (http://www.projectsmonitor.com/NEWPROJECTS/palakkad-coach-factory-awaits-dpr-approval)

barrykul

August 1st, 2009, 01:06 AM

Naresh

August 1st, 2009, 09:18 AM

satsk3

August 2nd, 2009, 07:52 AM

http://static.indianexpress.com/m-images/M_Id_97109_railways.jpg
A first of its kind Rail-cum-Road-Vehicle (RCRV) that can run at a speed of 60 kilometers per hour both on railway track and roads is almost ready.

Being developed by a Lucknow-based automotive unit, the test run of the vehicles was performed on Wednesday under the guidance of engineers from Diesel Locomotive Modernisation Works (DMW), Patiala, an unit of the Indian Railway.

...........

The most significant utility of RCRV will be during accidental hazards. “If a technical snag or any other emergency forces a train to get stranded in an isolated spot, through this vehicle, relief can be rushed in minimum time through road and rail route,” said Aggarwal. With its hauling capacity of 600 tons with coach brake and 150 tons without coach brake, the vehicle is capable of pushing or pulling the coach.

Also, the vehicle can be used as a fire tender or ambulance in an emergency. “A 40 litre water tank which can eject water with the same pressure as commercial fire tenders is attached with the vehicle,”

Full Article: expressindia.com (http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/countrys-first-hotwheels-for-rail-and-road-on-track-in-up/495782/)

sammyk

August 2nd, 2009, 08:29 AM

^^ What part of this vehicle is "first of its kind"? These things have been around for decades. Here's one:

(courtesy nomorefluffybunny via flickr)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2441/3614139096_f139377c32.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2441/3614139096_f139377c32.jpg

satsk3

August 2nd, 2009, 08:43 AM

^^ What part of this vehicle is "first of its kind"? These things have been around for decades. Here's one:

(courtesy nomorefluffybunny via flickr)

Maybe, the reporter mean "first of its kind" in India.

OR

for the Facilities like Water storage for Fire Fighting, Laboratory with Instruments to check the Vibration of Tracks, A/C Cabin which can be used as Ambulance while emergencies....etc

todscreen

August 2nd, 2009, 10:28 AM

why does all IR built new stuff looks like its dented or pecked by small birds?

Euromast

August 2nd, 2009, 12:44 PM

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/9474/02082009002005.jpg

a_niranjan

August 2nd, 2009, 04:51 PM

It is a first of its kind ... lookie here:

“A 40 litre water tank which can eject water with the same pressure as commercial fire tenders is attached with the vehicle,”

when was the last time you saw a fire-fighting equipment with all of 40 liters ... don't use it all at once on one fire ... save some for later ... :lol:

MachuPichu

August 2nd, 2009, 07:40 PM

^^

Major mistake in investing in more IR workshops. They need to be dismantled promptly, no more junk coaches of IR. Instead a consortium led by L&T (the makers of INS Arihant nuclear sub) is appropriate. L&T can create coaches of world standards roping in Indian SMBs, BEML or even Bombardier in Gujarat. A young team of inspired Indian Engineers would do wonders in creating the next generation Indian railway coach. Whether L&T wants to use Palakkad as a manufacturing base is upto its management. No more IR board deciding on junky IR workshops, due to political expediency.

Get the government out of running businesses - especially lucrative ones. Anything run by the US government is a disaster. So must be the case in India as well. The US government despite being more efficient than the Indian government still screws up value delivery.
Unlike in the US, in India, railway is a lucrative profit opportunity as distances are shorter and railways will deliver you right inside a city. So, while Amtrak is running at a debilitating loss in the US, no one seems to be bothered as railways is a subsidized venture here and private firms arent interested.

In India, railways must be privatized as the economic profits are there and private enterprise in India must be expanded for better wealth distribution.

MP

MachuPichu

August 2nd, 2009, 07:43 PM

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/9474/02082009002005.jpg

i still dont understand how the government can expect lowly motivated, underpaid engineers and staff to deliver top-of-the-line goods. It will never happen. These are just propaganda that go against every known economic theory.

MP

MachuPichu

August 2nd, 2009, 07:44 PM

ir desi

August 2nd, 2009, 08:21 PM

Get the government out of running businesses - especially lucrative ones. Anything run by the US government is a disaster. So must be the case in India as well. The US government despite being more efficient than the Indian government still screws up value delivery.
Unlike in the US, in India, railway is a lucrative profit opportunity as distances are shorter and railways will deliver you right inside a city. So, while Amtrak is running at a debilitating loss in the US, no one seems to be bothered as railways is a subsidized venture here and private firms arent interested.

In India, railways must be privatized as the economic profits are there and private enterprise in India must be expanded for better wealth distribution.

MP

MP...thanks for the effort, but please read up a little more on the US rail system.

US freight rail transportation is extremely profitable, and entirely private. The last time the US government was involved in freight rail was 1987, when the government-run Conrail, which owned and served most of the Northeast routes, was privatized.The government rail system was born in 1976, absorbing countless bankrupt private roads, including the rails of New York Central and the Pennsylvania Railroad, called "The Standard Railroad of the World". By 1981, the government-run Conrail turned a profit, ending federal subsidy. In 1987, Conrail put $1.9 billion into the pockets of the taxpayers. Its privatization was the largest IPO in US History at the time. All 7 current Class I US railroads are profitable. Indian railroads have the same potential, whether private or public. Either way, the owners must be competent and understand their business.

For your reading pleasure:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conrail

Now, given the way government is in India, I agree, the freight railroads may do better in private hands. Here is the problem. When you privatize the rails, passenger transport is inevitably going to become as it is in the US. It will take the backseat, just as supposedly fast Amtrak trains are shoved into sidings to allow countless slow freights to pass.

Amtrak is a very difficult problem to work with. Its problems stem not from just being a government entity, but being an entity that has been underfunded, as a result defers operating expenses until crisis point forces them to become much larger capital expenses, operates two dissimilar businesses (>4 hours and <4 hours intercity), and becomes beholden to freight operators who own the rails. Amtrak is not being allowed to succeed. Its troubles are a whole different discussion, but the fact that it is a government organization is not what holds it back. The only thing about government that holds it back is the people who do not understand and unreasonably attack Amtrak have the power to withhold funding through the political process.

Without far higher fares, passenger rail, private or public, will not be profitable. The question is, who said it needs to be? In India, the new roadways are tolled, which does make them in some sense self-maintaining. But taking the US as an example, freeways and airports gobble subsidy money from the taxpayers, yet everyone is content just to bash Amtrak. Indian airports take massive government investments, providing land subsidies, ATC services, etc, even when the airport is privately built and operated. The same goes for all untolled roads.

For India, we must look not at the US but at Europe, which shares more similar population characteristics, political dispositions, distances, density etc. European rail systems are generally government run, provide high service levels, have high utilization, and are successful because they are well funded and have competent management.

The problem, MP, with what you wrote is that you are comparing two countries that should not be compared and are mixing up the dynamics and profit structure of operating freight and passenger services in each country. If IR cannot be reformed to run competently, the best solution may be the way Britain does it, with private operators of government-owned rails. If IR can be made to run competently, then the best solutions are those of Continental Europe.

This discussion has all been of operation of the actual railroad. I 100% agree with you on equipment procurement. The government should not, in any way, be involved in the production of coaches etc. In the US and in Europe, the rolling equipment is manufactured by private companies. Healthy competition ensures the best quality at the lowest price.

Speaking of economic theory, we can simplify this whole thing quite a bit more. Railroads are known as natural monopolies. Because of their limited routes and inability to allow "shared space", it makes sense for one party to operate them, even if it must be subsidized. On the other hand, the equipment business is an oligopoly. Although oligopolies have few sellers with high barriers to entry (cost of factories+design etc), the dynamics among the sellers creates strong competition, resulting in the best products. We can simply think of Boeing and Airbus.

sudheeshnairs

August 2nd, 2009, 09:22 PM

sidney_jec

August 4th, 2009, 08:29 AM

TOI Epaper

Rajdhani camp slams Didi’s Duranto plan
Dwaipayan Ghosh | TNN

New Delhi: Will railway minister Mamata Banerjee’s brainchild Duranto eclipse the Rajdhani? With rumours abounding that the Central Railway has already worked out the schedule for the Howrah-Mumbai Duranto, Northern Railway officials hinted that the Capital will get its own Duranto express in the next three weeks.
“Details are being finalised by the Railway Board and an announcement will come soon,” said Vivek Sahai, general manager, Northern Railway. But sources said the rift between the railway minister and her board was yet to be sorted out.
According to railway ministry sources, the New Delhi-Howrah Duranto Express will run twice a week. “It will run at a maximum speed of 120 kmph and will have three maintenance stops. No tickets will be issued for these stations. Initially, there will be halts at Kanpur, Mughalsarai and Dhanbad but nothing is final. The train will be fully air-conditioned. However, with little time for maintenance during its run, we might restrict the number of coaches to 15, with provisions of a pantry car. The coaches will be Germanmade,” a source said.
Meanwhile, the pro-Rajdhani lobby is livid with the developments. “This is an attempt to undermine the importance of the Rajdhani. Duranto will run at a speed less than that of the Rajdhani, but with exactly half the number of stops. It will reach Howrah in 16 hours, a good hour and 10 minutes less than the Rajdhani. The board, at the behest of the minister, is planning to keep the ticket costs within the reach of the common man. Thus, the cost will be certainly higher than the Garib Rath or the superfast trains but less than the Rajdhani,” a board member said.
However, an Indian Railways spokesperson tried to play down the rift within the ministry.
“Rajdhani is not the fastest train, the New Delhi-Bhopal Shatabdi is. Two, the Rajdhani runs daily, this train will be bi-weekly. Finally, this train will carry fewer passengers than Rajdhani,” he said.

i dont think introducing another train on the already very busy route would do any harm to the ridership of rajdhani or any other train..
on the contrarry it will be a relief for the common folk..

robertashok

August 4th, 2009, 09:40 AM

Only 10 minutes saving is not worth, does the duranto is doing anything worthwile

busfan

August 4th, 2009, 10:00 AM

Only 10 minutes saving is not worth, does the duranto is doing anything worthwile

Please read the article carefully before shooting off comments. It says that the duranto will take one hour & 10 minutes less which means 70 minutes less than a rajdhani.

binaiks

August 4th, 2009, 10:52 AM

Only 10 minutes saving is not worth, does the duranto is doing anything worthwile

Much important than the time savings (of about 70 minutes as highlighted by the article) is that this train would offer Air-Conditioned accomodation at much cheaper rates than a Rajdhani. Rajdhani Expresses have an all-inclusive fare structure, charging much higher an amount over normal expresses on the same route.

A justification provided to the higher fare structure in Rajdhani Expresses is that food is provided "free-of-cost" to passengers. However, the quality and quantity of food provided to passengers no-way justify the higher charges. Duronto Expresses would provide the same (or higher) speed as that of a Rajdhani, at a much cheaper cost.

Food would be available on board at a cost - this I am sure, would provide a wider choice to passengers.

sidney_jec

August 4th, 2009, 11:03 AM

MachuPichu

August 5th, 2009, 07:33 PM

MP...thanks for the effort, but please read up a little more on the US rail system.

US freight rail transportation is extremely profitable, and entirely private. The last time the US government was involved in freight rail was 1987, when the government-run Conrail, which owned and served most of the Northeast routes, was privatized.The government rail system was born in 1976, absorbing countless bankrupt private roads, including the rails of New York Central and the Pennsylvania Railroad, called "The Standard Railroad of the World". By 1981, the government-run Conrail turned a profit, ending federal subsidy. In 1987, Conrail put $1.9 billion into the pockets of the taxpayers. Its privatization was the largest IPO in US History at the time. All 7 current Class I US railroads are profitable. Indian railroads have the same potential, whether private or public. Either way, the owners must be competent and understand their business.

For your reading pleasure:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conrail

Now, given the way government is in India, I agree, the freight railroads may do better in private hands. Here is the problem. When you privatize the rails, passenger transport is inevitably going to become as it is in the US. It will take the backseat, just as supposedly fast Amtrak trains are shoved into sidings to allow countless slow freights to pass.

Amtrak is a very difficult problem to work with. Its problems stem not from just being a government entity, but being an entity that has been underfunded, as a result defers operating expenses until crisis point forces them to become much larger capital expenses, operates two dissimilar businesses (>4 hours and <4 hours intercity), and becomes beholden to freight operators who own the rails. Amtrak is not being allowed to succeed. Its troubles are a whole different discussion, but the fact that it is a government organization is not what holds it back. The only thing about government that holds it back is the people who do not understand and unreasonably attack Amtrak have the power to withhold funding through the political process.

Without far higher fares, passenger rail, private or public, will not be profitable. The question is, who said it needs to be? In India, the new roadways are tolled, which does make them in some sense self-maintaining. But taking the US as an example, freeways and airports gobble subsidy money from the taxpayers, yet everyone is content just to bash Amtrak. Indian airports take massive government investments, providing land subsidies, ATC services, etc, even when the airport is privately built and operated. The same goes for all untolled roads.

For India, we must look not at the US but at Europe, which shares more similar population characteristics, political dispositions, distances, density etc. European rail systems are generally government run, provide high service levels, have high utilization, and are successful because they are well funded and have competent management.

The problem, MP, with what you wrote is that you are comparing two countries that should not be compared and are mixing up the dynamics and profit structure of operating freight and passenger services in each country. If IR cannot be reformed to run competently, the best solution may be the way Britain does it, with private operators of government-owned rails. If IR can be made to run competently, then the best solutions are those of Continental Europe.

This discussion has all been of operation of the actual railroad. I 100% agree with you on equipment procurement. The government should not, in any way, be involved in the production of coaches etc. In the US and in Europe, the rolling equipment is manufactured by private companies. Healthy competition ensures the best quality at the lowest price.

Speaking of economic theory, we can simplify this whole thing quite a bit more. Railroads are known as natural monopolies. Because of their limited routes and inability to allow "shared space", it makes sense for one party to operate them, even if it must be subsidized. On the other hand, the equipment business is an oligopoly. Although oligopolies have few sellers with high barriers to entry (cost of factories+design etc), the dynamics among the sellers creates strong competition, resulting in the best products. We can simply think of Boeing and Airbus.

This is a nice analysis. You should post this in a broader forum or on pay-to-read sites.

MP

MachuPichu

August 5th, 2009, 07:40 PM

At least they will have peace of mind, job security and consistency when compared with those like us in the corporate sector.:)

And I do not think the engineers of PSUs are underpaid, perhaps they would not get the high figures achieved by some in the private sector. Still what they get would be sufficient for a decent life in India.

The question, Mr Nair, is whether you reply simplifies issues. If manufacturing requires Intellectual Property Development, new design patents, operation of sophisticated tool cutters and CAD/CAM software, there is no way you can build a company with underpaid staff to do this. You could probably remove the design and manufacturing consulting part from the assembly workers themselves and pay top rupee for the IP/consulting services and then let the underpaid staff work the lines. But this doesnt seem the case in India. By some weird logic, the government wants underpaid staff to deliver top-of-the-line IP and consultancy - be it in the railways or in other areas like defense equipment. You can stand on your head but this will never happen. You will not be able to make the right products for right solutions Indians face, if you dont have the rightly remunerated team. The slow pace of execution, bad designs and corruption are a simple result of people not being paid what they are worth. Corruption is not going to go away by simple law enforcement - people need to be rewarded adequately.

MP

castlerock

August 5th, 2009, 08:42 PM

robertashok

August 6th, 2009, 09:26 AM

barrykul

August 6th, 2009, 09:36 PM

bhargavsura

August 6th, 2009, 09:49 PM

Yes sir. The way Kamal Nath is working around with the roads and adding lots of them, we should expect a lot better from him with him on the Railways side.

MachuPichu

August 7th, 2009, 06:26 PM

With the current Neta for Railways I have very little hope. She (Mamta) is best suited for ministry of "Rural Dev and Appeasement, Development of West Bengal only and Slayer of Maoists/Communists". Railways should be shared between Central Ministers Kamal Nath and Praful Patel as additional responsibility. The former can come up with a 10-20x goal for tracks, dedicated freight corridor, electrification, gauge conversion, doubling of lines, Private Public partnership for changing all the outmoded Indian Railway train/coaches/signaling system. Praful can plan on a complete revamp of most Tier 1,2,3,4 railway stations akin to the Indian airport revamp plan. Within 5 years they will transform the beast called IR and vastly improve the image of IR within India and elsewhere. I always cringe when I see foreign reports showing decrepit India railways and coach interiors and then they switch to countries such European nations, Japan or USA.

While your thoughts are on the right track (so to speak), you shouldnt do anything for "image" purposes or because you want to catch up with someone else. India has its issues and needs to solve them because it is better for the Indian people. Investments should mean additional jobs, better living standards, more productivity (faster commute times), more time with family, lower freight transportation costs, efficient relocation of labor and so on, if you get my drift. Yes, borrow solutions from developed nations but adapt them to solve your local problems for the betterment of everyone, and not because you want India to LOOK like developed nations. There has got to be economic underpinnings for everything.

MP

barrykul

August 8th, 2009, 03:10 AM

While your thoughts are on the right track (so to speak), you shouldnt do anything for "image" purposes or because you want to catch up with someone else.
MP

Thank you for your considered opinion but where do you get of your high horse thinking that I want India to change/catch up because of "Image". Just because I feel bad about the basics does not mean I am driven by image alone. Yes I cringe because the Western media has a penchant for showing the worst in India, like there are no terrible homeless scenes on the streets of San Francisco or bad neighborhoods in Oakland, CA. As for "Image", that is left to other nations like China to ape whatever the "Western" world is doing by copy/clone verbatim. No sir, we are India, we follow our dictums and paths, we are an ancient civilization which for many centuries set the blazing path/trail.

MachuPichu

August 9th, 2009, 01:15 AM

Thank you for your considered opinion but where do you get of your high horse thinking that I want India to change/catch up because of "Image". Just because I feel bad about the basics does not mean I am driven by image alone. Yes I cringe because the Western media has a penchant for showing the worst in India, like there are no terrible homeless scenes on the streets of San Francisco or bad neighborhoods in Oakland, CA. As for "Image", that is left to other nations like China to ape whatever the "Western" world is doing by copy/clone verbatim. No sir, we are India, we follow our dictums and paths, we are an ancient civilization which for many centuries set the blazing path/trail.

I believe you said: "Within 5 years they will transform the beast called IR and vastly improve the image of IR within India and elsewhere."

MP

harsh1802

August 9th, 2009, 01:48 AM

Plan for Tirupati-Srikalahasti metro rail line (http://www.hindu.com/2009/08/09/stories/2009080956490400.htm)

Special Correspondent

HYDERABAD: A metro rail line connecting Tirupati with other popular temple towns -- Srikalahasti and Kanipakam for the convenience of lakhs of pilgrims visiting Tirumala is proposed by the Tirupati Urban Development Authority.

Detailed reports for the rail line and a BRTS connecting the three pilgrim centres to provide fast mode of transport were being prepared, said Minister for Municipal Administration and Urban Development Anam Ramnarayan Reddy here on Saturday. Speaking to media persons after reviewing the progress of projects worth Rs.10,000 crore in six urban development authorities, he said UDAs should gear up with comprehensive plans to provide infrastructure, public transport systems and recreational facilities in public private partnership mode. For the Tirupati metro rail project, JNNURM funds could also be utilised.

The government recognised the need to create some more urban development authorities for planned development and Kakinada was one such proposal, he said.

Canal tourism and navigation wherever possible, provision of truck terminals and parking areas were other proposals. On satellite townships, amendments were proposed to the earlier GO and it would be sent soon for Cabinet approval. HMDA Commissioner K. S. Jawahar Reddy, Vice-Chairmen of Visakhapatnam, Kakatiya (Warangal), Tirupati, Vijayawada and Puttaparthi UDAs attended the meeting.

barrykul

August 9th, 2009, 02:08 AM

I believe you said: "Within 5 years they will transform the beast called IR and vastly improve the image of IR within India and elsewhere."

MP

I think you have low comprehension levels especially with 5 butts stuck in your mouth and cucumbers (cukes) stuck on your eyes. Your fantastic leaps to conclusions is well explained by your smoking some powerful stuff. Oh, BTW, your economic snake oil theories are even worse. Do me a favor, don't bother to respond to anything I write.

ajithv

August 9th, 2009, 06:23 AM

http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/8579/trainticket.jpg (http://img338.imageshack.us/i/trainticket.jpg/)

Source : TOI,Chennai

sidney_jec

August 9th, 2009, 08:26 AM

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/8579/trainticket.jpg (http://img7.imageshack.us/i/trainticket.jpg/)

Source : TOI,Chennai

dude a larger image please..

ajithv

August 9th, 2009, 01:59 PM

dude a larger image please..

Done..^^

MachuPichu

August 9th, 2009, 06:23 PM

I think you have low comprehension levels especially with 5 butts stuck in your mouth and cucumbers (cukes) stuck on your eyes. Your fantastic leaps to conclusions is well explained by your smoking some powerful stuff. Oh, BTW, your economic snake oil theories are even worse. Do me a favor, don't bother to respond to anything I write.

sorry...your answer wont hold up in a court of law but my response will. The jury declares you guilty, Barrykul and off you go to the gallows.

MP

barrykul

August 10th, 2009, 04:00 AM

sorry...your answer wont hold up in a court of law but my response will. The jury declares you guilty, Barrykul and off you go to the gallows.

MP

Dude go get a life. Screw of.

sidney_jec

August 10th, 2009, 06:55 AM

Done..^^

dude i meant a readable image..

todscreen

August 10th, 2009, 07:02 AM

haha

binaiks

August 11th, 2009, 04:41 PM

^^ the garib raths are already doing that..
and those are also fully air-conditioned..
plus they have a very few stoppages and those are commercial stops so that the ppl from those cities too benefit..
not that m against the Durunto trains..
its just that why have another category of trains..

The current railway minister does not want to follow what Lalu did earlier. Except for the name, the Raths were an amazing concept - I'd call them the future of Indian Railways (except for the Side Middle Berth, please).

she could have very well increased the frequency of the existing garib raths and restructured its fare (since they are highly subsidised to make an economic sense)..

Garib Raths are actually charging only what it takes to run the train - or the actual fare. Currently AC coaches charge much more than what is actually required, to make up for the subsidy provided to Sleeper/Second Sitting classes. It would only be a misconception, if you think Garib Raths are subsidised.

but the Rail Mantri doesn't have any brains whatsoever.(when she can run an express train for a distance of 40 km aka Aandolan "Express" one can imagine the level of intelligence..)
so anything and everything is justified..

I'd say, she makes economic sense! Passenger trains hardly recover their running cost (these trains ended up in more loss with lalu cutting fares at each budget). Current, bosses at railway headquarters think many times before they start a passenger train service - instead, any train charging Express fares recover more of the money being spent.

sidney_jec

August 11th, 2009, 05:30 PM

Garib Raths are actually charging only what it takes to run the train - or the actual fare. Currently AC coaches charge much more than what is actually required, to make up for the subsidy provided to Sleeper/Second Sitting classes. It would only be a misconception, if you think Garib Raths are subsidised.
.....
I'd say, she makes economic sense! Passenger trains hardly recover their running cost (these trains ended up in more loss with lalu cutting fares at each budget). Current, bosses at railway headquarters think many times before they start a passenger train service - instead, any train charging Express fares recover more of the money being spent.

dude are u sure..
with the kind the no of passengers that IR carries do u think it would make losses??
the sleeper and 2nd class fares are subsidised thats all right..
but the AC fares too are..
for instance the fare for the most expensive train on the IR network ie the Rajdhani Express charges 1563 for a 3rd AC berth which is somewhere around Rs. 1.13 per Km..
that surely is not much..

MachuPichu

August 11th, 2009, 05:46 PM

Dude go get a life. Screw of.

By the way I've noticed...its get OFF your high horse, screw OFF etc. You've got to use two FFs or OFF you go to the gallows...see how I used OFF :nuts:

MP

beam

August 11th, 2009, 06:09 PM

sidney_jec

August 11th, 2009, 06:19 PM

^^ old wine new bottle eh :)

beam

August 12th, 2009, 06:03 AM

True, old wine new bottle.

I wish Railways maintained continuity in nomenclatures of trains introduced irrespective of who rules the country.:horse:

a_niranjan

August 12th, 2009, 06:24 AM

You've got to use two FFs or OFF you go to the gallows...see how I used OFF :nuts:

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

dude, you got it right ... :lol::lol:

ir desi

August 12th, 2009, 06:48 AM

The question, Mr Nair, is whether you reply simplifies issues. If manufacturing requires Intellectual Property Development, new design patents, operation of sophisticated tool cutters and CAD/CAM software, there is no way you can build a company with underpaid staff to do this. You could probably remove the design and manufacturing consulting part from the assembly workers themselves and pay top rupee for the IP/consulting services and then let the underpaid staff work the lines. But this doesnt seem the case in India. By some weird logic, the government wants underpaid staff to deliver top-of-the-line IP and consultancy - be it in the railways or in other areas like defense equipment. You can stand on your head but this will never happen. You will not be able to make the right products for right solutions Indians face, if you dont have the rightly remunerated team. The slow pace of execution, bad designs and corruption are a simple result of people not being paid what they are worth. Corruption is not going to go away by simple law enforcement - people need to be rewarded adequately.

MP

On the salary issue, MP is nearly entirely right. It is a foregone conclusion around the world that public sector jobs will pay somewhat less than private sector jobs (the difference is made up by the value of doing public service), but the differences in India are often beyond reason, and their is no financial justification for the depressed wages since job holders commit corrupt acts to more than make up the difference, costing the government more money and resulting in substandard products.

MP, you did misread what barrykul meant. After you said not to think about image, he did clarify that although image mattered, it wasn't the only thing factoring in his thought-process. Both of you agreed that India's solutions should be from its own perspective and its own needs, following all the metrics MP mentioned. I think we all agree that Western media portrays India unfairly, and in the US the poverty of the lowest quintile is often forgotten as their is far more economic segregation than in India, with the poor shoved into the hells of the Bronx, Camden, and Mattapan (we call it Murderpan), unseen by suburban dwellers rushing downtown on their elevated expressways.

Really, what you guys both said are absolutely right, so I don't know what you are fighting about.

sidney_jec

August 12th, 2009, 10:47 AM

HT (http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?sectionName=IndiaSectionPage&id=3e0bf7b9-b25f-4265-a431-2d54c5f7616b&Headline=Howrah+soon+in+a+stamp)

Howrah soon in a stamp

Srinand Jha, Hindustan Times
Email Author
New Delhi, August 12, 2009

It is rather fitting that the Howrah railway station in Kolkata should be accorded heritage status during Mamata Banerjee’s tenure as the Union Railways Minister.

Come Independence Day (15 August), the Department of Posts will be issuing commemorative stamps on the 155th anniversary of the Howrah railway station - prided for its grand architectural grandness with brick arches and lofty towers seen from across the Hoogly river.

For the first time postage stamps are being released on railway stations, Executive Director (Heritage) Rajesh Agarwal told HT.

A set of four stamps of Rs.5 each on the Howrah and three other railway stations in metropolitan cities —Mumbai’s Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminal (CST) besides the Chennai Central and the Old Delhi stations —will be released.

Sachin Pilot, Minister of State for Communications and Information Technology, will release the stamps at a special function at Platform no 22 at the Howrah station on August 16.

Logically, Howrah ought to have been India’s first railway station - had it not been for that historical mishap in 1853. The ship carrying the coaches sank in the Hoogly River, while the steam locomotive was mis-dispatched to Australia.

From its humble beginning of one train in 1854, Howrah —now counted among the world’s largest stations —handles over a million passengers a day through 23 platforms and over 300 pairs of trains.

Starting out from a modest tin shed, Howrah’s real makeover took place between 1901 to 1905. Inspired from Halsey Ralph Ricardo’s designs in Romanesque style, the magnificent structure continues to stand out.

The first train chugged out of Howrah —then headquarters of the East India Railways—in 1854 and ran a distance of 40 kilometers from Howrah to Hoogly on August 15, 1854.

binaiks

August 12th, 2009, 01:20 PM

the sleeper and 2nd class fares are subsidised thats all right..
but the AC fares too are..
for instance the fare for the most expensive train on the IR network ie the Rajdhani Express charges 1563 for a 3rd AC berth which is somewhere around Rs. 1.13 per Km..
that surely is not much..

1563 for how many kilometres?

Passenger segment of the Railways is surely cross-subsidised by the Freight segment. However, AC coaches charge much much more than the expenses borne by the railways to operate them.

sidney_jec

August 12th, 2009, 01:42 PM

^^ i am not sure whether i wud agree with u on that..
anws the distance is 1366 Km..

MachuPichu

August 12th, 2009, 07:13 PM

On the salary issue, MP is nearly entirely right. It is a foregone conclusion around the world that public sector jobs will pay somewhat less than private sector jobs (the difference is made up by the value of doing public service), but the differences in India are often beyond reason, and their is no financial justification for the depressed wages since job holders commit corrupt acts to more than make up the difference, costing the government more money and resulting in substandard products.

MP, you did misread what barrykul meant. After you said not to think about image, he did clarify that although image mattered, it wasn't the only thing factoring in his thought-process. Both of you agreed that India's solutions should be from its own perspective and its own needs, following all the metrics MP mentioned. I think we all agree that Western media portrays India unfairly, and in the US the poverty of the lowest quintile is often forgotten as their is far more economic segregation than in India, with the poor shoved into the hells of the Bronx, Camden, and Mattapan (we call it Murderpan), unseen by suburban dwellers rushing downtown on their elevated expressways.

Really, what you guys both said are absolutely right, so I don't know what you are fighting about.

There is nothing called western media...its a myth. Just like the Indian media, the media of respective countries of the world write news items that their respective citizens would pay to buy. There is nothing called the western world as well. In America, for instance, our fashion sense is completely different from Western Europe (and within western europe, the French are completely different) and our culture/sports/reward mechanisms are also different. I am always amused when people use the word "western" or "westernized" as nothing like that actually exists. The Wall Street Journal articles on India are quite informative. A good way to look at this is to see if one can come about with at least one credible reason as to why any media would want to portray "India" as a whole negatively. You will see that there practically exists no motive; its all a mindset, probably nurtured by excessive Soviet Union propaganda during the cold war days (western-eastern - non-aligned blocs were all coined back then). This has nothing to do with Railways, but I thought I'd clarify.

MP

ir desi

August 13th, 2009, 05:43 AM

a_niranjan

August 13th, 2009, 06:15 AM

A good way to look at this is to see if one can come about with at least one credible reason as to why any media would want to portray "India" as a whole negatively.

Surely you jest, MP ... there are reasons aplenty ... that is, if you are willing to dig beneath the manure pile that is called "news" in the US media. UK media is no better with publications like "The Economist" waging a psy-ops war on India. There used to be strong Pakistani influence in CNN in the form of a senior editor of Pakistani origin ... not sure if he is around today, but his legacy continues. Beyond that, CNN is a mouthpiece of US Department of State when it comes to reporting on foreign affairs. They have a set of correspondents that would fail a basic culture comprehension test but report authoritatively on places that they have never visited.

Why are you being deliberately naive? Do you honestly see no "credible reason" why the foreign policy of US/UK would wish to suppress emerging powers like India in the media warfare? Are you aware of the Ayatollahs in the State Department that are smarting afetr India's 1998 nuke test that caught them with their pants down? They haven't forgotten and are itching to get revenge. These jokers live in think tanks like Stimson, Rand, etc. If someone like myself is given equal access to the US media, I could tear them a new one on a daily basis. But the "free and fair" media sees no need for such debate. All they accommodate is "equal time" on pointless topics in Fox News.

Get a clue, dude.

MachuPichu

August 13th, 2009, 06:52 AM

Surely you jest, MP ... there are reasons aplenty ... that is, if you are willing to dig beneath the manure pile that is called "news" in the US media. UK media is no better with publications like "The Economist" waging a psy-ops war on India. There used to be strong Pakistani influence in CNN in the form of a senior editor of Pakistani origin ... not sure if he is around today, but his legacy continues. Beyond that, CNN is a mouthpiece of US Department of State when it comes to reporting on foreign affairs. They have a set of correspondents that would fail a basic culture comprehension test but report authoritatively on places that they have never visited.

Why are you being deliberately naive? Do you honestly see no "credible reason" why the foreign policy of US/UK would wish to suppress emerging powers like India in the media warfare? Are you aware of the Ayatollahs in the State Department that are smarting afetr India's 1998 nuke test that caught them with their pants down? They haven't forgotten and are itching to get revenge. These jokers live in think tanks like Stimson, Rand, etc. If someone like myself is given equal access to the US media, I could tear them a new one on a daily basis. But the "free and fair" media sees no need for such debate. All they accommodate is "equal time" on pointless topics in Fox News.

Get a clue, dude.

Why is the US media of any interest to people in India? Dont they have their own media? The US media, if it must, can only "suppress" any views about India in the US. How does that matter around the world? Indians will be influenced by what their media says and structure their thought processes accordingly. I dont think US cable news is watched even in Europe.
Nuke test, really...I dont think the US state department has any problems with India testing a nuke bomb - India is never going to be a threat to the US. These are democracies and democracies do NOT go to war with each other. They can talk and solve issues. There is no one in the US trying to get a "revenge" man. India simply has not done anything to the US for the US to try and get revenge. People in the US want to make more money by trading with India and getting India to open up its markets, even in the defense sector. That's all. Wow..way too much conspiracy stuff. You are over estimating US media's influence around the world. Easy there, cowboy!

MP

MachuPichu

August 13th, 2009, 07:02 AM

Hold up buddy. You have this uncanny ability to take one phrase with only minor relevance to the rest of the discussion and extrapolate arguments where none existed. Seriously. Was "western media" even close to the most important thing said above?

Where did a motive, or a want to portray India negatively, come in? We're talking about a mindset and a misunderstanding.

I agree with you that "western media" is thrown around too much, and often only in reference to the US media, but, with absolute certainty, there is such a thing as a Western world. The Russian conception of it is a little off, and as you said, politically motivated, but even in US teaching we have always considered the Western world as societies stemming from the philosophies of ancient Rome. It is precisely because of the divide created by the Russians that India has become obscure, and therefore misunderstood, on the world stage. We can look at bits like Slumdog Millionaire to show how the 1993 riots were depicted as systemic insanity. Even better was the scene on Juhu Aerodrome, craftily filmed to look like, and taken by most western viewers as, a manhunt rather than a jawan trying to prevent the kids from getting themselves killed on an active runway. Of course, there are great differences between the US and Europe, and differences between different parts of each. But how can you even think to hold up culture/sports/reward mechanisms being different as a reason to suggest that the foundational thought process, wealth level, general world view, political dispositions are different? Just the same, within Eastern thought, South Asian and East Asian thinking shares numerous similarities and numerous differences.

I would agree with you on WSJ. I get it for my daily paper, and although I trust it less now that it is riding the same yacht as Fox News, its articles on India, particularly on RBI matters, have been very informative.

Finally, I, for one, would rather we take what people are saying a whole instead of harping on one point.

Back to IR, eh?

[edit] - on the subject of IR, a picture of an IR train being boarded in Delhi is currently the feature picture on CNN's homepage. It's associated with a new feature article stating that the world population will hit 7 billion by 2011, and India 1.7 bil by 2050. :nuts::cheers:

I havent seen slumdog millionaire. They probably made that movie that way because that is the theme that would sell in the US and Europe - we really dont want to watch another Matrix shot out of India now, do we? I dont think they were expecting record box office collections from India. Hollywood mantra is all about whatever sells to the local US population...its a business and that's how businesses make money. You can hardly take that as an expression of US culture and idiosyncracies. The sad fact in the US remains that about 60 to 70% of the population dont know any other land/culture other than the US exists in the world. This is because of a whole host of reasons such as no money to travel and that the US itself is very diverse when it comes to places to visit. The remaining 30% hold diverse views depending on how they have been involved with India. I can bet that less than 5% of the US population saw slumdog and I am sure that that is not a good barometer of anything. I see that there are a whole lot of myths about the US and our ways of thinking.

MP

ir desi

August 13th, 2009, 07:29 AM

I havent seen slumdog millionaire. They probably made that movie that way because that is the theme that would sell in the US and Europe - we really dont want to watch another Matrix shot out of India now, do we? I dont think they were expecting record box office collections from India. Hollywood mantra is all about whatever sells to the local US population...its a business and that's how businesses make money. You can hardly take that as an expression of US culture and idiosyncracies. The sad fact in the US remains that about 60 to 70% of the population dont know any other land/culture other than the US exists in the world. This is because of a whole host of reasons such as no money to travel and that the US itself is very diverse when it comes to places to visit. The remaining 30% hold diverse views depending on how they have been involved with India. I can bet that less than 5% of the US population saw slumdog and I am sure that that is not a good barometer of anything. I see that there are a whole lot of myths about the US and our ways of thinking.

MP

I don't see how your argument works. First off, I suspect you are highly disconnected from popular American culture. Slumdog Millionaire was the rage for the entire first quarter of the year, bringing in $360,000,000 in revenue, 4 Golden Globes, and 8 Oscars. To my and many other Indians' chagrin at our school in Boston, Slumdog Millionaire dominated every discussion for the first two weeks after its premierm, with people asking us constantly "is that how India really is? What a shithole! You did the right thing to leave". If you agree that that theme is what would sell in the US and Europe, and the depiction of India in that movie is what Americans who don't know anything else about India will remember, how can you say that the average American an the media who supplies them are not ill-informed about India?

Bombay Boy

August 13th, 2009, 07:32 AM

slumdog is not hollywood or bollywood. its british cinema, like trainspotting

Bombay Boy

August 13th, 2009, 07:34 AM

and if you use movies to base your world-view on then most indians would have a very warped sense of the world looking at most bollywood movies (foreigner - racist/bad, white women - loose, etc etc)

ir desi

August 13th, 2009, 07:41 AM

and if you use movies to base your world-view on then most indians would have a very warped sense of the world looking at most bollywood movies (foreigner - racist/bad, white women - loose, etc etc)

a) We analyze films both by point of production and point of consumption.

b) I would say with some confidence that many Indians have absorbed those views, and their world outlook is significantly warped. All of our views are somewhat warped.

c) Slumdog is one supporting point to a much broader argument previously described.

d) IR's great, ain' it?

sidney_jec

August 13th, 2009, 07:54 AM

^^ its not only the films but the books, the travel journos, the documentaries in short anything and everything based on Indias poverty sell in the US..

Bombay Boy

August 13th, 2009, 08:12 AM

so the point really should be to make india less poor innit? for any foreigner thats easily the most glaring, noticeable and 'memorable' part of india

a_niranjan

August 13th, 2009, 08:44 AM

Why is the US media of any interest to people in India? Dont they have their own media?

wow ... such a deep question ... why indeed? ... Why are you on a website about Indian railways? ... Don't you have your own Railways to worry about?

Nuke test, really...I dont think the US state department has any problems with India testing a nuke bomb -

when was the last time you read a US SD brief?

India is never going to be a threat to the US. These are democracies and democracies do NOT go to war with each other.

no, democracies fund dictators to harass other democracies ... :lol:

They can talk and solve issues. There is no one in the US trying to get a "revenge" man. India simply has not done anything to the US for the US to try and get revenge. People in the US want to make more money by trading with India and getting India to open up its markets, even in the defense sector. That's all. Wow..way too much conspiracy stuff. You are over estimating US media's influence around the world. Easy there, cowboy!

now I know that P.T. Barnum was dead on :)

a_niranjan

August 13th, 2009, 08:47 AM

Regarding Slumdog ... please read the book on which the movie is based ... the protagonist is not Muslim ... he was adopted by a Christian priest ... there were no Hindus killing Muslims ... there was no dude dressed like Ram wielding a sword ...

All that crap was introduced into the script by a British director ...

so innocent, no? ... Just a couple of minor tweaks, what's the biggie? ... shouldn't bother anyone, should it? ... no psy-ops there, were there?

we all know that Hindus kill Muslims everyday in India, don't we? ... hence, every movie shot in India has to have a bunch of Hindus killing Muslims in every other scene ... right, Mr. Machu Pichu?

Of course, we should just tell ourselves, "what do we care? That is british media being oh well just British. It is simple fun and games after all."

a_niranjan

August 13th, 2009, 09:27 AM

I havent seen slumdog millionaire. They probably made that movie that way because that is the theme that would sell in the US ...

I will take a wild guess ... a movie in which an actor dressed like Jesus has sex simultaneously with a blond bimbo and a goat would sell quite well in the US ... what do you think, Mr. Machu Pichu? ... would there possibly be some silly considerations, unrelated to money, that may prevent a director from making that movie?

Nelaturi

August 13th, 2009, 10:30 AM

Guys, don't waste the forum space and members' time.!! Get back to IR discussions and if you want to indulge in this Slumdog tripe, pl take it off line.

jstarra49

August 13th, 2009, 03:12 PM

So how is the introduction of Duronto's coming along. Have any of their schedules been published yet?

MachuPichu

August 13th, 2009, 06:01 PM

I will take a wild guess ... a movie in which an actor dressed like Jesus has sex simultaneously with a blond bimbo and a goat would sell quite well in the US ... what do you think, Mr. Machu Pichu? ... would there possibly be some silly considerations, unrelated to money, that may prevent a director from making that movie?

dude...mine is a country where Jackass the movie and Sasha Baron Cohen's movies sell like hot cakes. Porn stars are adulated in my country. It is who we are and what works here. The State Department and other US Government departments dont make policies based on what the average Joe thinks. They have their own staff, their own budget with plenty of inputs and intelligence coming in from India. So i am pretty positive that people in the know really know what India is all about - just like the Wall Street knows what India's businesses are all about. Why are you so worried about what the average Joe in the US thinks about India? Lets get back to India Railways, shall we?

What is the investment target for IR for the next 3 to 5 years and where are they at? Is the IR management in for a change?

MP

MachuPichu

August 13th, 2009, 06:09 PM

I don't see how your argument works. First off, I suspect you are highly disconnected from popular American culture. Slumdog Millionaire was the rage for the entire first quarter of the year, bringing in $360,000,000 in revenue, 4 Golden Globes, and 8 Oscars. To my and many other Indians' chagrin at our school in Boston, Slumdog Millionaire dominated every discussion for the first two weeks after its premierm, with people asking us constantly "is that how India really is? What a shithole! You did the right thing to leave". If you agree that that theme is what would sell in the US and Europe, and the depiction of India in that movie is what Americans who don't know anything else about India will remember, how can you say that the average American an the media who supplies them are not ill-informed about India?

I live in NYC and I meet a whole lot of people. No one's ever asked me about that movie. At the same time people do know that India still lacks incredibly in infrastructure and basic living standards. The Indian Railways is a prime example. It is underfunded, under designed, not-so-safe and poorly managed. Like I said, people in the know, know what India is all about. The very same wall street banks are the ones that funded the micro loans revolution in India. It is the USIBC (a trade body of both Americans and Indians) that pushed the nuke deal with India. You are generalizing way too much about Americans and American culture. You can take this on faith.

What the IR needs to do is to package some businesses in way that private equity folks around the world can invest in them and get their money back in a reasonable period of time. The other issues to solve are land acquisition and ticketing. Airlines in India are trying to solve the problem of mass transportation but then again the jet fuel costs in India are still keeping the fares high. Indian ministries need to work aggressively to get into an advantageous position so it can get better prices on energy products, especially for mass transit. There are policy issues in IR that needs to be worked out - just introducing trains in every annual budget is not going to help. I think the government has to first merge railways, airlines and sea travel into one department of transportation - so that the ministry solves india's transportation needs and not think of railways as the only way to solve that. It needs a a coordinate approach, in my opinion.

MP

MP

MachuPichu

August 13th, 2009, 06:22 PM

Mahindra Satyam loses Railways' tech contract

Indian Railways has cancelled a locomotive management system (LMS) contract awarded to Satyam Computer Services (now Mahindra Satyam) in January this year, after the company failed to meet the deadline for submitting required financial details and start working on the pilot project.

Source: Economic Times

I came across this item on WSJ news snippets. So, the IR is awarding tech projects such as the LMS? That seems like a positive step.

MP

MachuPichu

August 13th, 2009, 06:25 PM

India Rail Budget Keeps Fares Steady

By NEELABH CHATURVEDI

NEW DELHI -- India's federal government kept passenger and freight tariffs steady in its annual railway budget Friday and trimmed the revenue goal for the financial year through March 2010 due to the economic slowdown.
[Passengers travel in a suburban train in Mumbai] Reuters

Passengers travel in a suburban train in Mumbai July 3, 2009. (REUTERS/Arko Datta)

Gross traffic receipts in this financial year are likely to be 884.19 billion rupees ($18.41 billion), short of the 931.59 billion rupees projected in the interim budget in February, Railway Minister Mamata Banerjee said in her budget speech.

"Based on the review, it is very clear that the unrealistically high targets set in the interim budget are not sustainable and warrant a midcourse correction," Ms. Banerjee said. The interim budget was in effect until the new government came to power in May.

"I have now set more realistic targets for the year based on the continuing trend of recession in the manufacturing sector and exports," she said.

The government will introduce 57 new trains this fiscal year, up from the 43 trains indicated in the interim budget, while it will invest 407.45 billion rupees in modernizing and expanding one of the world's largest railway networks.

India is the only country in the world to have a separate budget for the Railways, underscoring the importance of the network which ferries about 20 million passengers each day and is the largest employer outside the armed forces.

Long known for incurring losses, the Railways has dramatically improved in recent years by improving technology and cutting fares to boost traffic although the recent slowdown in economic activity has hurt performance.

The Indian economy expanded 6.7% in the last financial year, well below the average 8.8% growth clocked in the previous five years as key export markets slumped in to recession and financing conditions became more challenging for local firms.

The Railways ferried 833 million tons of cargo last fiscal year, lower than its initial aim of 850 million tons, although traffic this year is likely to rise to 882 million tons, Ms. Banerjee said.

"This ambitious target is being kept in light of the special measures being taken by the government to give an economic stimulus as a counter recession measure," she said.

The budget also proposed partnerships with private companies to develop 50 train stations as well as making surplus land available for commercial use.

Write to Neelabh Chaturvedi at neelabh.chaturvedi@dowjones.com

Again,seems like the IR is doing something to improve technology aspects. Does anyone know what other technology based projects is going on?

MP

vvr

August 14th, 2009, 06:37 AM

The very same wall street banks are the ones that funded the micro loans revolution in India.

MP

MP

I am curious about this assertion. Can you elaborate some more? I have more than a passing interest in microfinance as someone who spends a day every month at a village on the outskirts of Bangalore helping develop micoenterpreneurs as a part of my role as one of the founders of a very small Colorado-based microenterprise development organization.

I teach an online course on microenterprise at Colorado State Univ. and would like to include some of your information in the future. Currently, the conventional wisdom is that the banks, particularly Wall Street-based, are rather skeptical about micro-credit.

sidney_jec

August 14th, 2009, 12:16 PM

Source (http://www.newkerala.com/nkfullnews-1-91535.html)

Mamata sanctions Rs.35 mn for theatre complex

Kolkata, Aug 12 : Railways Minister Mamata Banerjee Wednesday named an Eastern Railway (ER) open theatre after Bengali theatre icon Sambhu Mitra and sanctioned Rs.35 million for the overall development of the amphitheatre as a cultural platform in Kolkata's twin district Howrah.

"Indian Railways have at least 1.4 million staff and we've schools, colleges for the children of our employees. But we need to motivate them in cultural entertainments also," Banerjee said.

"A few days ago I paid a surprise visit to the ER's museum at the Howrah railway station and saw this open theatre. I decided to develop it as a platform for cultural interaction.

"I named this open theatre after noted theatre personality Sambhu Mitra and have also formed an advisory committee, chaired by Shaoli Mitra (Sambhu Mitra's daughter), to prepare the blueprint for this amphitheatre," she added.

Banerjee said the railways would spend the amount for covering this open theatre and setting up an archive at the museum complex.

"This amphitheatre will help to nurture cultural activities in our state," she said.
--- IANS

yashchauhan

August 14th, 2009, 02:00 PM

Source (http://www.newkerala.com/nkfullnews-1-91535.html)

what a nice sense of infrastructure...next should be

an Indian police amusement park...........while it remains under equipped and corrupt

an Indian roads and highways museum............a bus transport convention centre and a port memorial..............now thats soo relevant!

sidney_jec

August 14th, 2009, 02:05 PM

this lady herself is a big cultural enthusiast so no surprises that this will be happening..
but she need to emphasize a lot more on a lot of other things..
these can be taken care of by the state govt (if she lets them)..

rupakd

August 14th, 2009, 02:35 PM

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/5408/65849770.th.jpg (http://img442.imageshack.us/i/65849770.jpg/)

bhargavsura

August 14th, 2009, 02:38 PM

beam

August 14th, 2009, 03:32 PM

Same is true for all our previous railway ministers.

Maybe a law passed in parliament will help by which a railway minister is not allowed to sanction any projects for his/her state but all other states.:cheer:

MachuPichu

August 14th, 2009, 04:27 PM

I am curious about this assertion. Can you elaborate some more? I have more than a passing interest in microfinance as someone who spends a day every month at a village on the outskirts of Bangalore helping develop micoenterpreneurs as a part of my role as one of the founders of a very small Colorado-based microenterprise development organization.

I teach an online course on microenterprise at Colorado State Univ. and would like to include some of your information in the future. Currently, the conventional wisdom is that the banks, particularly Wall Street-based, are rather skeptical about micro-credit.

In India, micro loans ended up turning a profit. So wall street/london private equity firms ended up investing a billion or two. Actually, people are saying that there may be a credit bubble in the micro loans area - with people taking loans to pay off prior loans. I know Citibank has a separate division to fund micro loans in emerging markets and I also know a person who works in that division in NY/Florida - perhaps worth talking to. Email me separately if you want more details. By the way, I lived in Denver for about 4 years.

MP

downunder1

August 14th, 2009, 06:06 PM

Is she Union Railway minister or West Bengal Railway Minister? Most of the news I have heard after her becoming the URM, are news of additions of trains in West Bengal, upgrading the stations in West Bengal, and so on.

Why isn't the PM seeing this biasing?

LOL.. you make it sound like that Mamata Banerjee is the only biased Railway minister. Laloo Prasad did the exact same thing. Dear Gawd! How could anyone forget that almost 'all' the new trains either originated/ended in Bihar (Patna, Rajendranagar, Danapur and what not) or passed through one of those esteemed stations! Oh well, I don't defend our "Didi" for her policies but unfortunately most of our "Dadas" have done the same thing!! And why should we deny it anyway :)

downunder1

August 14th, 2009, 06:09 PM

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/5408/65849770.th.jpg (http://img442.imageshack.us/i/65849770.jpg/)

Also read elsewhere that Ladies Specials have been introduced between Hazrat Nizamuddin (delhi)-Palwal(Haryana), And also on the Chennai and Mumbai suburban routes. Good move indeed!!

Will post links when I find them!

sidney_jec

August 17th, 2009, 07:30 AM

FYI

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/6088/getimage1.png

rupakd

August 17th, 2009, 09:09 AM

Land acquisition ball in Mamata's court
Goutam Ghosh & Ishita Ayan Dutt / Kolkata August 17, 2009, 0:49 IST

Bengal govt invokes Acquisition Act to buy land for railways near Singur.

The West Bengal government is acquiring land in the Hooghly district under the Land Acquisition Act, 1894, for the Indian Railways. The site isn’t far from Singur, the battleground between the Tata group and Trinamool Congress’ Mamata Banerjee, who is now the railway minister, when the state government invoked the same Act to acquire land for the Nano small car plant.

The Railways has already identified 28.71 acres to be acquired to construct the Tarakeshwar-Bishnupur broad gauge line.

Once the Land Acquisition Act is invoked, people do not have much choice but to give up their land in most cases. A window of 30 days is open to object to the acquisition, which the state government may or may not consider.

As Debanjan Mandal of leading law firm Fox & Mandal, pointed out, “If the state goes ahead with the acquisition in spite of objections by the land-loser concerned, then that amounts to forcible acquisition to that extent.”

The irony of this is it was Banerjee who protested vehemently when the

Land Acquisition Act was invoked in Singur, though more than 80 per cent of the people had voluntarily given up their land for the Nano project. Her indefinite dharna last year demanding that the state government return land to unwilling land-losers, finally provoked Tata Motors to pull out of Singur and relocate to Sanand in Gujarat.

Trinamool Congress is the Congress’ largest ally in the United Progressive Alliance (UPA) with 19 seats. Its successful showing in West Bengal in the 2009 general elections – handing the Left Front its worst defeat in three decades – was driven mainly by championing the rights of unwilling land-losers in Singur and, earlier, in Nandigram where a chemical hub was planned.

Now, when asked about the land acquisition for the Railways, Trinamool Congress leaders were vague in their response. Partha Chatterjee, the leader of the Opposition in the West Bengal Assembly, said, "Land can be acquired for railway and road expansion projects. This is our party’s stand. I do not know about these notifications, so I should not comment.”

What makes the Railway move surprising is that Banerjee recently forced the UPA government to take the Land Acquisition Bill off the agenda just ahead of its presentation in the Lok Sabha. She wanted at least four changes. One, landowners should have a legal right to buy back their land if the proposed project doesn’t take off within the stipulated time. Two, the government should not play a role in acquiring land to set up private projects. Three, no industry should come up on agricultural land. Four, land cannot be acquired forcibly against farmers’ wishes.

The Railways acquisition in West Bengal could go against at least the last two of Banerjee’s objections.

“The Railways is acquiring around 100 acres across Bankura, Bardhaman and Hooghly districts by invoking the Land Acquisition Act. In Hooghly, the land is double-crop and multi-crop,” said Basudeb Acharia, former chairman of the parliamentary standing committee on railways and sitting MP from Bankura.

During the Rail Budget discussion in the Lok Sabha, Acharia pointed that at least 30,000 acres would be required for the East-West freight corridor from Ludhiana to Kolkata, involving acquisition of agricultural land.

Banerjee’s response was cryptic: “We are not going to acquire land forcibly. A Railway line does not require a huge amount of land in one particular area. Only a small stretch of land is needed to build railway lines. It will not be like your Nandigram or Singur.” Railway Board officials were not available for comment.

Naturally, the CPI-M, the largest party in the four-party Left Front coalition that rules West Bengal, isn’t willing to forgo a political opportunity. As Abdur Rezzak Mollah, state minister for land and land reforms, observed, “The Trinamool Congress opposed land acquisition so vehemently. Now, the Railway ministry headed by its party leader needs land. It will be interesting to see how they face the people."

Mollah, however, added, "We will cooperate with the Railways on this matter. But when fertile land is taken, the state government will convert the same amount of one-crop land into double-crop land.”

He also said the state would not use force to acquire land. The roles have been truly reversed.

mittal.fdk

August 19th, 2009, 09:56 AM

NEW DELHI: The railways had drawn up an ambitious plan to modernise New Delhi railway station two years ago but it ran into opposition from "reluctant" civic agencies and the environment ministry. Now, a ray of hope has appeared with cabinet secretary K M Chandrashekar intervening to resolve the issues with civic, land-owning and other agencies.

The cabinet secretary has called a meeting of railway ministry, urban development ministry and other agencies on Wednesday to speed up the mega plan as railways has sought an in-principal approval from agencies obstructing commercial development of the station on PPP mode.

According to rail ministry officials, civic agencies have refused approval to commercially utilise around 11 lakh sqm around New Delhi railway station as envisaged in the Rs 6,000 crore project.

With commercial development at the station likely to greatly increase traffic flow, civic agencies were apprehensive of the traffic evacuation plan as the area around the station is already choked.

With a civic centre developed by MCD coming up in the area and Connaught Place also being redeveloped, enhanced commercial activity at the station would create an unmanageable traffic situation, the agencies said. They suggested that the railways restrict the plan to simply construct a modern station and leave out any additional facilities for passengers or real estate development.

Railway officials argued that delay in approval was leading to uncertainty. "We cannot put on hold commercial development of the area as it is part of the mega project," an official said.

According to railways' plan, the project is to be executed on PPP mode by leveraging the real estate development potential in the air space above the station and on rail land around the station.

As per the proposed plan, there will be retail outlets, restaurants, currency and exchange counters, cyber cafes, food court, banking with ATM facilities and car rentals at the station.

After civic agencies raised traffic issues, railways commissioned RITES to study the traffic flow in the area. Sources said RITES had submitted its report which was been considered and will come up for discussion in the meeting called by the cabinet secretary.

The railways hopes to raise around Rs 5,000 crore through private investment for the project. Private investment was being invited for development of restaurants, mini-malls and budget hotels for passengers.

Link: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/New-Delhi-station-revamp-gets-a-push/articleshow/4908169.cms

bhargavsura

August 20th, 2009, 04:30 AM

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/1106/20082009006003.jpg

Source: Hindustan Times

rupakd

August 20th, 2009, 08:21 AM

New Delhi, August 13, 2009 : The Railways might take pride in operating the Rajdhani and Shatabdi Express trains, but the Comptroller and Auditor General of India (CAG) has said that in more than 50 per cent of
occasions, these prestigious trains have not reached their destinations on time. “If measured from a passenger’s perspective—arrival at destination at the time given in the time table— trains were late on 54
per cent of occasions, while prestigious trains like Rajdhani and Shatabdi were late on 53 per cent of occasions,” the CAG report said. The report maintained that, now, the Indian Railways address punctuality purely from an operational point of view, where trains handed over late by one zone to another were recorded as being punctual so long as they do not get delayed further.
In addition, the zones reported wrong data in order to show that trains were punctual on 95 per cent of the occasions, the CAG report said. An independent assessment of 568 trains disclosed that as many as 79,122 runs out of 1,45,886 runs, which constituted 54.24 per cent of the total runs, the trains had reached the destinations beyond their scheduled time of arrival. Out of these, on 30,487 occasions, the delays were for more than one hour. Moreover, the delays were due to factors like engineering delay, signal failure, loco failure and miscellaneous reasons than due to external factors or untoward incidents. The delayed runs of super fast trains accounted for 23,247 out of 79,122 runs, which included prestigious trains like Rajdhani, Shatabdi, Jan Shatabdi and Sampark Kranti.
During 2007-08, the 37 Rajdhani and Shatabdi trains that were reviewed reached the destinations late on 53 per cent (4,956 out of 9,378 runs) of the occasions. Even while considering the engine hour cost of a
diesel loco, the delayed runs reviewed involved an extra expenditure of Rs 47.41 crore on fuel consumption alone. Source: DH News Service

irutavias

August 20th, 2009, 06:19 PM

Look at Japanese punctuality in their transport systems. That mentality needs to be instilled in India.

Euromast

August 20th, 2009, 10:34 PM

I'll be last person to privatise Indian Railways: Mamata (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News-By-Industry/Transportation/Ill-be-last-person-to-privatise-Indian-Railways-Mamata-/articleshow/4916616.cms)

KOLKATA: Rubbishing talk that efforts are on to privatise the Indian Railways, Railway Minister Mamata Banerjee Thursday said she would be the last
person to do so.

"In some quarters there is mischievous talk that we are trying to privatise the railways. I'll be the last person to privatise the Indian Railways. There will be no privatisation or commercialisation of the railways," Banerjee said at the 54th Annual Railways National Award Function here.

"We'll make the railways so strong that no one can undermine this organisation. We'll ensure nobody can touch our employees as well. We are passing through an important stage

MachuPichu

August 21st, 2009, 01:09 AM

I'll be last person to privatise Indian Railways: Mamata (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News-By-Industry/Transportation/Ill-be-last-person-to-privatise-Indian-Railways-Mamata-/articleshow/4916616.cms)

This woman needs to be referred to a therapist. What's wrong with her? Her explanations are weird, to say the least.

MP

robertashok

August 21st, 2009, 02:55 AM

Look at Japanese punctuality in their transport systems. That mentality needs to be instilled in India.

Boss there is no punctuality even by the japanese trains in local trains, there is next train for every 2-3 mins, so you don't feel it.

and coming to long distance train, there is absolutely no interchange in their lines, of course it has also come up with well thought planning and adaption.

qwertyasd

August 21st, 2009, 04:38 AM

I'll be last person to privatise Indian Railways: Mamata (http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/News-By-Industry/Transportation/Ill-be-last-person-to-privatise-Indian-Railways-Mamata-/articleshow/4916616.cms)

I think people misunderstand privatization being antithetical to social goals.

In fact, this untruth has been spread by the socialist economists from day 1 since our independence, creating a huge fear psychosis among Indians for any private enterprise.

Social goals can be met even when privatization takes place. In case of railways, i am sure as long as railway travelers do not see an increase in fares, the social goals will be met. Taking this as a baseline, a lot many functions within the railways can still be privatized without necessarily making the Railways a completely private organization.

jpatokal

August 22nd, 2009, 11:37 AM

Boss there is no punctuality even by the japanese trains in local trains, there is next train for every 2-3 mins, so you don't feel it.
:ohno:

Even subway stations with trains every few minutes have schedules posted on the wall, listing every single departure. (Example (http://www.tokyometro.jp/rosen/eki/otemachi/marunouchi_a_heijitsu.html).) These are followed to the split second, and if there's a delay for any reason (usually some poor guy committing suicide...), there are lengthy apologies and station staff passing out notes for people who may miss work. And that doesn't happen often: I lived in Tokyo for several years, commuting daily, and I can remember one (1) single time that the train was delayed.

Long-distance trains are even better: in 2004, the average delay on the Tokyo-Osaka bullet train (http://english.jr-central.co.jp/news/n20040408/index.html) was 0.1 minutes, or 6 seconds! And that's despite operating 291 trains per day, or over 100,000 per year!

natarajan1986

August 22nd, 2009, 01:26 PM

you forgot about our democracy which allows any group to block the rail track even if water is not coming in their home:lol: or fundamentalists may block citing religious reason

robertashok

August 23rd, 2009, 04:02 AM

:ohno:

Even subway stations with trains every few minutes have schedules posted on the wall, listing every single departure. (Example (http://www.tokyometro.jp/rosen/eki/otemachi/marunouchi_a_heijitsu.html).) These are followed to the split second, and if there's a delay for any reason (usually some poor guy committing suicide...), there are lengthy apologies and station staff passing out notes for people who may miss work. And that doesn't happen often: I lived in Tokyo for several years, commuting daily, and I can remember one (1) single time that the train was delayed.

Long-distance trains are even better: in 2004, the average delay on the Tokyo-Osaka bullet train (http://english.jr-central.co.jp/news/n20040408/index.html) was 0.1 minutes, or 6 seconds! And that's despite operating 291 trains per day, or over 100,000 per year!

i am currently in tokyo. there is a delay in train everyday boss in rushhours

irutavias

August 23rd, 2009, 06:39 PM

Boss there is no punctuality even by the japanese trains in local trains, there is next train for every 2-3 mins, so you don't feel it.

and coming to long distance train, there is absolutely no interchange in their lines, of course it has also come up with well thought planning and adaption.

There are situations that can't be helped. But for most of what I have heard about the Japanese Rail Systems (from relatives living there as well as online examples), their punctuality is formidable. I've heard of refunds being given out for a delay of mere minutes.

@jpatokal
Remarkable statistic. I still can't believe it. Thank you for your personal insight!

And it's always nice to come up with excuses as to why we can never do it in India and so and so country is different/has a different way of doing things.

So what, we sit back, relax and have a Charminar? or do we fight this 'give up it's always been this way' mentality and show that it can be done? Already people across the board in India are showing this can-do attitude, and are achieving success.

It's not the system that is flawed, it's the people's mentality!

MachuPichu

August 23rd, 2009, 07:31 PM

There are situations that can't be helped. But for most of what I have heard about the Japanese Rail Systems (from relatives living there as well as online examples), their punctuality is formidable. I've heard of refunds being given out for a delay of mere minutes.

@jpatokal
Remarkable statistic. I still can't believe it. Thank you for your personal insight!

And it's always nice to come up with excuses as to why we can never do it in India and so and so country is different/has a different way of doing things.

So what, we sit back, relax and have a Charminar? or do we fight this 'give up it's always been this way' mentality and show that it can be done? Already people across the board in India are showing this can-do attitude, and are achieving success.

It's not the system that is flawed, it's the people's mentality!

I dont think Japanese type punctuality is a viable economic solution for India. Punctuality requires extensive infrastructure building in a certain area, which India can ill-afford. Railways is not the only area to be developed. India needs to scrap ministries like railways, airlines, highways etc. and combine them into one Ministry of Transportation, so holistic solutions can be laid out. India needs to decrease the number of ministries and streamline decision making if they want to progress quickly. I think solutions like these are the need of the hour and not stuff like punctuality, which is not going to bring in much benefits.

MP

irutavias

August 23rd, 2009, 09:01 PM

I dont think Japanese type punctuality is a viable economic solution for India. Punctuality requires extensive infrastructure building in a certain area, which India can ill-afford. Railways is not the only area to be developed. India needs to scrap ministries like railways, airlines, highways etc. and combine them into one Ministry of Transportation, so holistic solutions can be laid out. India needs to decrease the number of ministries and streamline decision making if they want to progress quickly. I think solutions like these are the need of the hour and not stuff like punctuality, which is not going to bring in much benefits.

MP

Well I was addressing the general mentality of making excuses, but surely the current level of the Railways' adherence to a schedule is in dire need of improvement.

Advait

August 25th, 2009, 05:34 AM

This woman needs to be referred to a therapist. What's wrong with her? Her explanations are weird, to say the least.

MP

Privatization of railways in UK has been one of biggest debacle. Even in India, cities like Rourkela where urban transport has been privatized, it is a total mess with services available only along profitable routes and at profitable times of the day and that too in buses that are outright pathetic even by Indian standards. Even in India, supporters of such ideas are usually fresh mba kids.

Here are some interesting opinions regarding the same topic from China rail development forums here on SSC by chinese as well as westerners

UD2 said page 63

Public transit and infrastructure was, is, and will NEVER be profitable regardless of where, when, the system, over how long, or in what nature.

Infrastructure should never ever be privatized, outsourced, or be managed by any type of an organization other than
publicly accountable bureaucracies of which employees working for it are on public servant payrolls.

Privatization of infrastructure have failed in almost every place that have attempted it and the only places that
still wants to try it are the ones that have politicians on private sector payrolls with no long term interest of
the public in mind. Oh wait; did I just describe the entire liberal democratic ideology?

London24/7 page 69
oo yeah dude capitalism 'rocks', except all rail services in china are run and managed by the chinese government in
a state monopoly - so the market has no effect on it. That's why rail services in china and europe are so good - the
government isnt interested in making a profit - its there to provided a public service. Whereas the US seems to think
the free market is a cure for every social ill and has made virtually no investment in passenger rail.

I am not a fan of Mamta Bannerji nor am i a commie jholawala from JNU but I agree with her on non-privatization. Instead I would focus on mapping out the entire business process of Indian railways, reduce the bottlenecks, improve automation, reduce the staff and relieve them with 6 month/1 yr pay and raise salaries somewhat of those retained and thus cut down on bureaucracy and operating costs of IR.

Bombay Boy

August 25th, 2009, 07:23 AM

i agree. railways and other major capital-intensive infra that is for general public use cannot be privatised. the economic benefits are usually in 40-50 year time horizons and not always accrued from the charges for using the infra itself. that is why i would prefer even the metro systems in the country to be ideally government run

the problem in india is that the government seems to have abdicated its responsibility in providing better quality of infra and increasing its investment in creating new infra. the cure should be in improving this aspect, not relying on private companies with short horizons and with the inability to invest during down-turns, like this one

Suncity

August 25th, 2009, 07:37 AM

skdubai

August 25th, 2009, 07:47 AM

Infrastructure should never ever be privatized, outsourced, or be managed by any type of an organization other than
publicly accountable bureaucracies of which employees working for it are on public servant payrolls.

I totally agree with you, as long as the govt. is willing and able to provide the services. it took them 10 odd years to build the Kolkata metro and similar amount of time to build the MRTS system in Chennai. I agree with you that Indian railways cannot be privatized because it has a lot of social causes to work for. but lets not generalize this to all major infrastructre projects. The govt. is not capable (Financially or wrt. schedule) of doing it all. In such a case, we have to go with the alternative!!

mittal.fdk

August 25th, 2009, 08:25 AM

I think the central govt should help the state govts to build up infrastructure and states should find ways to increase their revenues apart from raising taxes.

rupakd

August 25th, 2009, 09:16 AM

The Indian Railways has announced a reduction in tatkal charges, effective from October 1. The new tatkal charges will be levied at 10 per cent of the basic fare for second class and 30 per cent of basic fare for all other classes, said an official release. According to the revised charges, passengers will have to pay Rs 10-15 in second class. Reserved berth in a sleeper class will cost between Rs 75 and Rs 150. Tatkal charges for AC chair car will range between Rs 75 and Rs 150. In AC three tier it will range between Rs 200 and Rs 300.

Source: The Telegraph

rupakd

August 25th, 2009, 09:18 AM

Konkan Railway Corporation will sign an MoU with the Research Development and Standard Organisation (RDSO) next week to facilitate
certification of the skybus technology. The technology’s certification is necessary for the project to be taken up for commercial purposes.

KRC MD Anurag Mishra said on Monday that trial runs will be taken up shortly so that the project can prove the technology’s safety. Serious doubts had been cast on the technology following a mishap that had led to a railway staffer falling and dying due to sudden jerking during a test run of the skybus.

Source: TOI

MachuPichu

August 25th, 2009, 07:28 PM

Privatization of railways in UK has been one of biggest debacle. Even in India, cities like Rourkela where urban transport has been privatized, it is a total mess with services available only along profitable routes and at profitable times of the day and that too in buses that are outright pathetic even by Indian standards. Even in India, supporters of such ideas are usually fresh mba kids.

Here are some interesting opinions regarding the same topic from China rail development forums here on SSC by chinese as well as westerners

UD2 said page 63

Public transit and infrastructure was, is, and will NEVER be profitable regardless of where, when, the system, over how long, or in what nature.

Infrastructure should never ever be privatized, outsourced, or be managed by any type of an organization other than
publicly accountable bureaucracies of which employees working for it are on public servant payrolls.

Privatization of infrastructure have failed in almost every place that have attempted it and the only places that
still wants to try it are the ones that have politicians on private sector payrolls with no long term interest of
the public in mind. Oh wait; did I just describe the entire liberal democratic ideology?

London24/7 page 69
oo yeah dude capitalism 'rocks', except all rail services in china are run and managed by the chinese government in
a state monopoly - so the market has no effect on it. That's why rail services in china and europe are so good - the
government isnt interested in making a profit - its there to provided a public service. Whereas the US seems to think
the free market is a cure for every social ill and has made virtually no investment in passenger rail.

I am not a fan of Mamta Bannerji nor am i a commie jholawala from JNU but I agree with her on non-privatization. Instead I would focus on mapping out the entire business process of Indian railways, reduce the bottlenecks, improve automation, reduce the staff and relieve them with 6 month/1 yr pay and raise salaries somewhat of those retained and thus cut down on bureaucracy and operating costs of IR.

You cannot forcibly privatize...I dont know what's the argument about. If the projects dont yield a reasonable positive return within a reasonable period, then no one will invest anyways. So, I am not sure what's all the scare about. Give the viable stuff to private guys and have the government do the non-viable things. It is important to increase the stock of private companies and individuals doing business in any economy. For instance, India's defense sector has a private investment policy - but no one has invested anyways due to a non-viable policy. So, it is really irrelevant if the government has a privatizing policy or not. It is up to the market to respond. So the minister's rather stupid remarks that they will NEVER privatize as if privatization by and of itself is a bad thing truly rings hollow.

MP

MP

Advait

August 25th, 2009, 08:28 PM

You cannot forcibly privatize...I dont know what's the argument about. If the projects dont yield a reasonable positive return within a reasonable period, then no one will invest anyways. So, I am not sure what's all the scare about. Give the viable stuff to private guys and have the government do the non-viable things. It is important to increase the stock of private companies and individuals doing business in any economy. For instance, India's defense sector has a private investment policy - but no one has invested anyways due to a non-viable policy. So, it is really irrelevant if the government has a privatizing policy or not. It is up to the market to respond. So the minister's rather stupid remarks that they will NEVER privatize as if privatization by and of itself is a bad thing truly rings hollow.

MP

MP

Stakeholders and Shareholders do have difference of opinion on what is a "reasonable" return on investment (RoI).
I agree though that wherever business is viable but calls for huge investments that would block government money, it does make sense privatize in some bits with conditions on levels of service offered to people. However, a lot depends on whether private groups have the level of sophistication, managing capability and often deep pockets to handle some businesses. Private Nuclear power generation would be one nice example.

vidya

August 26th, 2009, 12:04 PM

a_niranjan

August 26th, 2009, 04:47 PM

... India's largest car maker has also been seeking a dedicated railway line to transport its cars from the Manesar manufacturing plant to the Mundra port in Gujarat.

That sentence had me going for a while ... all they are asking for is a ~18km line from their factory to the nearest railway yard ... it seemed like they wanted a dedicated line all the way to Mundra .... :lol:

Advait

August 26th, 2009, 07:11 PM

Maruti Suzuki India is eyeing incremental exports in the next few years, thanks to the dedicated export model A Star.

To augment exports, India's largest car maker has also been seeking a dedicated railway line to transport its cars from the Manesar manufacturing plant to the Mundra port in Gujarat.
read more .... (http://www.projectscommunity.com/story.php?title=a-manesar-mundra-rail-link-for-maruti-)

India desperately needs to boost manufacturing exports. Automobiles sector does hold this promise. The least GoI can do is to provide a rail line for auto-component clusters or individual car makers to nearest railway yard. Start with dedicated rail lines for Maruti, Hyundai and Pune to ports.

Industrial clusters/SEZ to ports railway lines should be a priority. After all it's the cargo that subsidizes the passenger rail travel.

MachuPichu

August 26th, 2009, 08:18 PM

Stakeholders and Shareholders do have difference of opinion on what is a "reasonable" return on investment (RoI).
I agree though that wherever business is viable but calls for huge investments that would block government money, it does make sense privatize in some bits with conditions on levels of service offered to people. However, a lot depends on whether private groups have the level of sophistication, managing capability and often deep pockets to handle some businesses. Private Nuclear power generation would be one nice example.

Actually, private guys are the ONLY folks that have the level of sophistication, managing capability and often deep pockets (market mechanisms; provided it is a viable business). The government does NOT come anywhere near.

MP

Advait

August 27th, 2009, 04:09 AM

:rant:Actually, private guys are the ONLY folks that have the level of sophistication, managing capability and often deep pockets (market mechanisms; provided it is a viable business). The government does NOT come anywhere near.

MP
Oh really. Who owns the some of the topmost airlines: Emirates and Singapore Airlines today? Who owns companies like DP world and PSA which operate some of the world's busiest ports of Dubai & Singapore respectively? Do you really think Saudis would have been able to create oil-giant like Aramco if private illiterate bedouins were told to drill oil ? Look at the splendid job that government owned housing board in Singapore has done. The problems in Indian Public Sector Undertakings(PSU) has been largely the principal-agent problem, job reservations(affirmative action) and overstaffing forced by politicians who promise more jobs every election. Inspite of that many have done pretty good job just that it doesn't get highlighted often.

Do you think private farmers could have brought about green revolution in India? It was the government that brought the agro-specialists. In contrast look at ROGUE companies like Monsanto that sell seeds. They sell seeds whose crops perish unless you buy "their" equally expensive specific pesiticides. They are the reason behind massive scale farmers' suicides in India and the agri problems elsewhere in world. Watch the documentary: Le Monde selon Monsanto.
You need to watch videos of how Enron fooled you in the name of privatization of energy and trading electricity like a stock. Quite an eye-opener. RoI-maniacs are better kept out of basic necessities or if allowed there should be so many of them that you have perfect competition but no oligopolies or monopolies.

Basically you need to follow a mixed approach. Unless local business groups are large/sophisticated, Government is often better positioned to kickstart technology-intensive or capital intensive industry and nurture private suppliers. It can create supporting infrastructure around its facility. As they mature, some of the private players they can set up their own industry in that area or become partners with government owned unit in Public-Private partnership and gradually Government can withdraw completely. Though still I wouldn't privatise railways, may be Air-India.

Take a look at Singapore's public transport and you will stop calling US, First-world.:lol: They do not allow ANY private operators. You need to open your eyes and smoke better stuff. I suggest a beedi. Guess you won't need as many.:laugh:

Sorry for long rant and getting OT :rant:

Bombay Boy

August 27th, 2009, 04:56 AM

the best run rail systems in the world are government owned. some of the worst in the developed world are privatised. no private body can think of 50-60 year profit horizons or massive coverage, which is what is needed

MachuPichu

August 27th, 2009, 05:49 AM

:rant:
Oh really. Who owns the some of the topmost airlines: Emirates and Singapore Airlines today? Who owns companies like DP world and PSA which operate some of the world's busiest ports of Dubai & Singapore respectively? Do you really think Saudis would have been able to create oil-giant like Aramco if private illiterate bedouins were told to drill oil ? Look at the splendid job that government owned housing board in Singapore has done. The problems in Indian Public Sector Undertakings(PSU) has been largely the principal-agent problem, job reservations(affirmative action) and overstaffing forced by politicians who promise more jobs every election. Inspite of that many have done pretty good job just that it doesn't get highlighted often.

Do you think private farmers could have brought about green revolution in India? It was the government that brought the agro-specialists. In contrast look at ROGUE companies like Monsanto that sell seeds. They sell seeds whose crops perish unless you buy "their" equally expensive specific pesiticides. They are the reason behind massive scale farmers' suicides in India and the agri problems elsewhere in world. Watch the documentary: Le Monde selon Monsanto.
You need to watch videos of how Enron fooled you in the name of privatization of energy and trading electricity like a stock. Quite an eye-opener. RoI-maniacs are better kept out of basic necessities or if allowed there should be so many of them that you have perfect competition but no oligopolies or monopolies.

Basically you need to follow a mixed approach. Unless local business groups are large/sophisticated, Government is often better positioned to kickstart technology-intensive or capital intensive industry and nurture private suppliers. It can create supporting infrastructure around its facility. As they mature, some of the private players they can set up their own industry in that area or become partners with government owned unit in Public-Private partnership and gradually Government can withdraw completely. Though still I wouldn't privatise railways, may be Air-India.

Take a look at Singapore's public transport and you will stop calling US, First-world.:lol: They do not allow ANY private operators. You need to open your eyes and smoke better stuff. I suggest a beedi. Guess you won't need as many.:laugh:

Sorry for long rant and getting OT :rant:

Lots of issues with your arguments:

- large population countries' systems and governments completely different from city countries like singapore. Such comparisons are plain inappropriate. Emirates, Singapore Airlines controlled by very small governments.
- policy and regulation of private enterprise is a completely different topic from creativity, innovation and growth of private enterprise itself. In fact, this is what the Indian government should be focusing on - superior policies, regulation and monitoring and NOT running businesses.
- Enron, Monsanto - you are not able to distinguish between failure of monitoring and regulations versus private enterprise itself; These are not the only companies in their areas and there are plenty of companies providing high quality services in similar areas completely following regulations. Aramco was originally created by US Oil companies like Chevron and later handed over to Saudis.
- the thing is there are 100 private company successes for every 1 government-owned company success (acknowledging at the same time that there have been plenty of crooks). For instance, the world wide web wouldnt have been popular if it werent for Netscape, a completely private effort.

There is no point in dissing private enterprise, creativity and innovation. You will be fighting a losing battle.

MP

robertashok

August 27th, 2009, 06:14 AM

Machupichu,

you always want an argument it seems, i have seen you arguing for everything what is ur problem.

MachuPichu

August 27th, 2009, 07:48 AM

Machupichu,

you always want an argument it seems, i have seen you arguing for everything what is ur problem.

Arguments are what makes democratic forums stronger, I guess. Ability to be different, question someone's thoughts and presenting alternate view points are what has always defined us as human beings.

MP

Advait

August 27th, 2009, 08:26 AM

Lots of issues with your arguments:

- large population countries' systems and governments completely different from city countries like singapore. Such comparisons are plain inappropriate. Emirates, Singapore Airlines controlled by very small governments.
- policy and regulation of private enterprise is a completely different topic from creativity, innovation and growth of private enterprise itself. In fact, this is what the Indian government should be focusing on - superior policies, regulation and monitoring and NOT running businesses.
- Enron, Monsanto - you are not able to distinguish between failure of monitoring and regulations versus private enterprise itself; These are not the only companies in their areas and there are plenty of companies providing high quality services in similar areas completely following regulations. Aramco was originally created by US Oil companies like Chevron and later handed over to Saudis.
- the thing is there are 100 private company successes for every 1 government-owned company success (acknowledging at the same time that there have been plenty of crooks). For instance, the world wide web wouldnt have been popular if it werent for Netscape, a completely private effort.

There is no point in dissing private enterprise, creativity and innovation. You will be fighting a losing battle.

MP

There are basic necessities and there are optional necessities. Nobody wants Government making mp3 players, colour TVs, mobile phones, running cable TV channels, writing software etc and get bogged down into micromanagement when it should be running the country. But the control over supply of basic necessities of life should be in government hands.

Demand is largely inelastic in basic necessities whereas it is elastic in optional necessities. Private enterprises can squeeze the supply of basic necessities in order to extort the price they want IF they have monopolistic controls. Even when there isn't monopoly then can form "associations" or "boards" for price-fixing. Builders' associations control supply vs demand of homes in most indian cities to sustain high real estate prices.

Loopholes can be found in every regulation. If you keep making laws upon laws to fill the gaps, you only add to bureaucracy which we already are !

If PSUs are given sufficient autonomy and answerable senior management then they too can imitate successes of those from Singapore & Dubai. Chinese power generation and Railways are publicly owned !

Nobody is routing for Soviet style central economy. Just that certain no-go areas should be beyond private control to avoid extortion.

Even in your land of capitalism, the basic necessity of education is FREE upto school level at least through government owned public schools. University is when it becomes self-paid. Try leaving it entirely to private schools.

And you are wrong about the world wide web and Netscape. Internet is an offshoot of ARPANET created specifically for US military requirements which was in existence since early 1970s. As with all major technologies, initial high cost of new technology is absorbed by military or space applications where performance rules over cost. This is nothing but an Indirect subsidy. Nothing wrong with it but again government(military) took the initiative and is thus responsible for it. Why don't you put ALL the costs from early research of 70s for ARPANET onto the Netscape and let's see if it would have provided anything for FREE.

Every society is different for which it must find uniquely tailored solutions. You are looking at your own successful models and jumping for blind acceptance by the rest.

If the world is a garment shop catering to all ages, you are selling a Free-sized T-shirt.