GERMANY - Stadium and Arena Development News [Archive] - Page 9

Alemanniafan

May 9th, 2010, 07:35 PM

The new Tivoli in Aachen is just being prepared and temporarily converted into an all seater for the international match between Germany and Malta on thursday evening.
A pretty remarkable thing about that is that the club Alemannia Aachen is renting out tip up seats from the Veltinsarena in Gelsenkirchen, which are therefore going to be blue and thus of course not match the yellow interior of the new Tivoli.
Currently 11500 holes are being and have allready been drilled to install these about 6000 seats.
Some of the lawn has allready been replaced. The commercial boards around the pitch will also be removed and exchanged with digital ones or neutralized. The whole conversion from terracing to all seater is hapening within 3 days (the last homegame of the season against Duisburg was just this afternoon by the way and ended 1:1, I don't have any pics available but I was just standing there in the terracing area that's going to be converted now and saw drilled some allready holes). From 5 am monday morning on a mobile crane will lift out all the barriers (about 200kg each) in the terracing in 24 hours according to the timeschedule. The seats are allready in Aachen stored in some local transporation company.
The Alemania Aachen is supposed to get 500.000€ for renting out the stadium to the DFB for the friendly match. These different conversions will all be payed from the stadium rent.
The match will be shown on the german TV channel ARD on thursday afternoon at 17:20 local time (GMT+1)

more here (in german):
http://www.alemannia-aachen.de/aktuelles/nachrichten/details/Tivoli-ruestet-sich-fuer-DFB-Elf-20687S/ (official club website)
and here:
http://www.az-web.de/sport/alemannia-aachen-detail-az/1285461?_link=topnews&skip=&_g=6000-Klappsitze-fuers-Laenderspiel.html (lokal newspaper: Aachener Zeitung)

Rohne

May 9th, 2010, 10:51 PM

You just don't have the faintest idea. In case of the Waldstadion, it's not been the club that sold the name, but the city of Frankfurt. It was a political decision, because they wanted to save tax money. Eintracht Frankfurt never saw a cent of this money. And I'd rather see my club playing in the 10th league but with honest football instead of this crappy business event you get at most first league clubs like Schalke, Hoppenheim or München (fortunately the SGE doesn't belong to them up to now).
I'm curious what you will do when the time comes that your Alemannia sees the need to sell the stadium's name. I will still call it Tivoli, but you may not, if you want to keep to your opinion.
For me names are unsellable. You may get money for letting a company think they have the naming rights, but in reality the name will never change. It's WALDSTADION, Volksparkstadion, Frankenstadion, Müngersdorfer Stadion, etc! Nothing else!

thun

May 10th, 2010, 12:32 AM

^^
Then if you want "honest football" (whatever that should be) consequently you have to support an amateur team as all pro teams represent the same "ideology", namely capitalism. There's nor difference between Frankfurt, hoffenheim or St. Pauli.
Case closed, back to topic.

Inferious

May 10th, 2010, 01:23 AM

wow the arena is huge for hockey. great atmosphere.

derzberb

May 10th, 2010, 07:54 PM

Commerzbank Arena in Frankfurt not a real indoor arena, but it has a retractable fabric roof.

As far as i know, this retractable roof does not work - so it is in fact irretractable.

metros11

May 10th, 2010, 08:17 PM

A very good and succesful manager indeed. But this year that title also goes to Louis van Gaal and his team. ;)

Van Gaal has a lot more talent and money to work with. The fact that Wolfsburg were able to win the Bundesliga last year is amazing in itself.

metros11

May 10th, 2010, 08:23 PM

Yesterday the hockey world championship was opened in Schalke. Attendance for the Germany - USA was 77,803 (which means a new world record), Germany won 2-1 after overtime.

World Championships in the middle of NHL playoffs? Somehow I don't think the teams will present their best players.

thun

May 11th, 2010, 03:47 PM

But that's true for all the other teams, too. Players wich play for teams in the NHL playoffs obviously can't participate in the world championships. No matter if they're Americans, Canadians, Swedish, or whatever nation. ;)
It's the same every time, btw.

gavstar00

May 11th, 2010, 08:13 PM

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/02p20wKflJ9da/610x.jpg

At first glance this picture looked like something from Germany in the late 30's/ early 40's, had to do a double take on it!

Have to say it is some sight seeing that many fans in for a hockey game, i would imagine the atmosphere was incredible

Rohne

May 11th, 2010, 08:30 PM

As far as i know, this retractable roof does not work - so it is in fact irretractable.

The roof works! But it's only allowed to be used between April and October, and of course you don't need a retractable roof for football as football is an outdoor game.

@thun: I support our second team which still belongs to Eintracht Frankfurt e.V. and not to the AG. As soon as the AG decides to sell its name to a sponsor or something else in this direction I will never again see the Waldstadion from inside. But up to now the situation at Eintracht Frankfurt is quite far from those in Hoppenheim, Schalke (Gazprom) or Golfsburg.
Your point with capitalism is misleading, as football at first is sport and not business. What football became in Spain or England is not football, it's just ill.

Alemanniafan

May 11th, 2010, 08:32 PM

Here's a picture of the blue seats from Schalkes Veltinsarena in Gelsenkirchen that are being installed in the new Tivoli in Aachen right now for the friendly match between Germany and Malta on thursday.
http://static.alemannia-aachen.de/cache/6d4e620bee0a66bbea7e8bb5ab4d6c8c-1397.jpeg

The main reason why they're renting those blue seats from Schalke seems to be that the necessary storing capacity when buying and using own seats would be far to expensive for those rare events where they are needed, it would only make sense if they were needed and used more regularly than in those few exceptional cases expected here in the new Tivoli. They're temporarily installing five different versions of these blue seats because of the varying steepness. 30 workers who usually install seats in the Arena Gelsenkirchen are installing these seats here now also. Malta will have a training in the stadium tomorrow the german team decided not to take offer they will do their training in Düsseldorf instead.
(http://www.alemannia-aachen.de/aktuelles/nachrichten/details/Tivoli-erhaelt-internationales-Flair-20699Y/)

and @ derzberb:
As far as I'm informed the retractable fabric roof in frankfurts Commerzbank-Arena works fine. It's just not allowed to be closed during the wintertime when it snows or when there's really bad weather because it wouldn't be safe since it can't withstand conditions like snow, hail or heavy rain.

Kampflamm

May 11th, 2010, 09:21 PM

But up to now the situation at Eintracht Frankfurt is quite far from those in Hoppenheim, Schalke (Gazprom) or Golfsburg.

Why are you mentioning Schalke in the same breath with Hoffenheim and Wolfsburg? Gazprom neither owns the team nor do they have a say in the day to day running of the club.

thun

May 11th, 2010, 10:17 PM

And transfering the pro teams into AGs or GmbHs isn't capitalism or what? I guess you have quite a biased view on the whole issue. :dunno:

Alemanniafan

May 12th, 2010, 05:11 PM

In case you're interested, the Club Alemannia Aachen as the stadium owner is suppsoed to get 500.000 € for renting out the Tivoli to the DFB for this friendly match against Malta tomorrow.
The temporary conversion is supposed to cost about 150.000 €, the overall profit remaining for the Club by renting out the Tivoli for this match should end up being somewhere around 100.000 €, a clubs official said in an interview for the Lokal TV.

se12

May 15th, 2010, 04:21 PM

Why are you mentioning Schalke in the same breath with Hoffenheim and Wolfsburg? Gazprom neither owns the team nor do they have a say in the day to day running of the club.

I also wonder why too . . .

derzberb

May 16th, 2010, 09:57 PM

sali_haci

May 17th, 2010, 05:42 PM

They're nazis! Right? ^^
:lol:

otherperson

May 24th, 2010, 08:55 AM

Nice. :)

Twister2010

May 24th, 2010, 08:11 PM

http://www.fcbochum.de/bundesliga/bilder/logo_st_pauli.gif

FC.St Pauli
1. Bundesliga

The Millerntor-Stadion is a multi-purpose stadium in Hamburg St. Pauli, Germany. It is mainly used for football matches and is the home stadium of FC St. Pauli. It is on the Heiligengeistfeld, near the Reeperbahn. The stadium had a capacity of 32 000 when it was built in 1961. Sometimes it is used for the American football team of the Hamburg Blue Devils and very rarely for concerts or festivals

http://www.hamburg-tourism.de/uploads/pics/millerntor.jpg
http://santapauli.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/millerntor21091.jpg
http://www.youngtimer-jd.de/Millerntor-GG.jpg
http://www.hamburg.de/image/347228/Stadion+Millerntor.jpg
http://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/19810441.jpg
http://cf88.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/bild004.jpg
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/572/57781008.jpg
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/8200/234zk.jpg
http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/3810/3333a.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.co/3122/2486122450_28ec280025_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3122/2486122450_28ec280025_b.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2343/2348700219_9f9f1b6367_b.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2343/2348700219_9f9f1b6367_b.jpg
http://www.stadionwelt.de/sw_stadien/fotos/stadionguides/deutschland/millerntor/aussen/aussen_03.JPG

Millerntor and Hamburger Dom(Famous Funfair)
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2280/2546444340_5d041b6234.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2280/2546444340_5d041b6234.jpg
http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/7311/342xk.jpg
http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/7870/94851850.jpg
http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/7452/2323111.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.co/2327/2370256165_214c126963_o.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2327/2370256165_214c126963_o.jpg

Finally in December 2006 the south stand was demolished after the game versus Wuppertal and has caused the capacity to be reduced to the level of 15 600. Some troubles in the club leadership deferred the reconstruction. Some fans speak cynically of the "Littman hole", with regard to the controversial chairman Corny Littmann and the fact that a tribune is lost. But in the spring 2007 the reconstruction work started. However, with the newly reconstructed south stand (nearly finished in March 2008) and a provisional seating area above the northern stand, the capacity increased to 22 648 (2:1 victory versus VfL Osnabrück 20 March 2008). When the south stand is completely finished, the capacity will 23 201. The capacity of the completely reconstructed Millerntor stadium will be 27 000 in 2014 or earlier, depending on the league results. The next tribune scheduled for rebuilding should be the north stand, according on the plans. However, it now looks like the rebuilding of the main tribune will start first, and the north stand will be used, for some time to come, with the provisional seating - which was originally booked for the season tickets holders of the main tribune.
A map of the surrounding area

The Main Tribune was demolished in mid-November 2009, with the new seating sections scheduled to be completed in time for the start of the 2010-2011 season.

Progress overview
1. South stand: 3000 standing places, 2600 seats (1000 business) and 10 Séparées (VIP Lounge)
2. Main tribune: 4800 seats and 200 Séparées
3. North stand: 1940 standing places for guest supporters, 3375 seats for home and guest
4. Back straight: 10 000 standing places, 1175 seats

With the reconstructed south stand the club fulfils their licence terms for the DFL, because all technical requirements (e.g. undersoil heating) are included. Further the old cult manual scoreboard is exchanged for a digital one. The old scoreboard might get a place somewhere at the stadium front.

New Millerntor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Tqc39Pxqyg

http://www.taz.de/uploads/hp_taz_img/xl/cyber_millerntorstadion_4sp_sw.jpg
http://vhaus.de/images/videos/708c1666ee1419969ce5e5ada7523670.jpg
http://stpauli.nu/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/FC-St.-Pauli-Neue-Haupttribuenejpg.jpg

Zeno2

May 24th, 2010, 10:05 PM

^^
Love the Sankt Pauli stadium. Main stand has an English feel.
What are the future plans regarding the renewel of the 2 remaining stands?

MS20

May 25th, 2010, 04:37 AM

What is with Germany and stadium upgrades? They may it seem like its nothing, while every other country struggles to get anything done. Seems like there is new construction news every week.

Alemanniafan

May 25th, 2010, 11:41 AM

What is with Germany and stadium upgrades? They may it seem like its nothing, while every other country struggles to get anything done. Seems like there is new construction news every week.
That's indeed the first impression one gets. But there is a downside to it.
New stadia or upgrades and renovations are indeed quite costly.
And that lead to several clubs having financial problems getting nearly bankrupt.
The Zentralstadion in Leipzig used in the Worldcup 2006 has been nearly empty and only used by local lower league teams for some years, until Red Bull recently started their "RasenBallsport Leipzig" project which everyone expects to advance from the 5th league fairly quickly. They now rent the stadium from Mr. Kölmel it is being (or is very soon going to be) renamed into Red Bull Arena
Schalke 04 as one of the big clubs for example has very high debts which also partially result from building the Arena in Gelsenkirchen.
Arminia Bielefeld is badly strugling to survive right this moment because the modernisations of their stadium cost 12 mio€ more than expected. They are not unlikely to go bankrupt before the beginnig of the coming season.
Dynamo Dresden is strugling to survive for years allready just like 1860 München which can't afford the 5 rent of 5 mio per year for the Allianzarena.
Fortuna Düsseldorf and 1.Fc Kaiserslautern both got and are still getting financial help from the city or state even and both pay ridiculously low rent for their stadia.
Alemannia Aachen is also having financial problems because the new Tivoli cost a bit more than expected they just got a financial backup from the city of Aachen for a 5.5 mio€ loan.
In Mainz the city of Mainz is currently building the new Coface Arena and not the soccerclub and noone knows how financial sucessfull that will be.
So as you can see here by these examples, quite often all these new stadia do in fact create serious financial problems for the owners especially for those clubs that don't constantly play in the first Bundesliga.

pmsbm

May 26th, 2010, 05:37 PM

Further the old cult manual scoreboard is exchanged for a digital one.

Where is this?
The one shown in the pics, between the South and Est stands seems to be digital already!

hugenholz

May 27th, 2010, 12:20 AM

That's indeed the first impression one gets. But there is a downside to it.
New stadia or upgrades and renovations are indeed quite costly.
And that lead to several clubs having financial problems getting nearly bankrupt.
The Zentralstadion in Leipzig used in the Worldcup 2006 has been nearly empty and only used by local lower league teams for some years, until Red Bull recently started their "RasenBallsport Leipzig" project which everyone expects to advance from the 5th league fairly quickly. They now rent the stadium from Mr. Kölmel it is being (or is very soon going to be) renamed into Red Bull Arena
Schalke 04 as one of the big clubs for example has very high debts which also partially result from building the Arena in Gelsenkirchen.
Arminia Bielefeld is badly strugling to survive right this moment because the modernisations of their stadium cost 12 mio€ more than expected. They are not unlikely to go bankrupt before the beginnig of the coming season.
Dynamo Dresden is strugling to survive for years allready just like 1860 München which can't afford the 5 rent of 5 mio per year for the Allianzarena.
Fortuna Düsseldorf and 1.Fc Kaiserslautern both got and are still getting financial help from the city or state even and both pay ridiculously low rent for their stadia.
Alemannia Aachen is also having financial problems because the new Tivoli cost a bit more than expected they just got a financial backup from the city of Aachen for a 5.5 mio€ loan.
In Mainz the city of Mainz is currently building the new Coface Arena and not the soccerclub and noone knows how financial sucessfull that will be.
So as you can see here by these examples, quite often all these new stadia do in fact create serious financial problems for the owners especially for those clubs that don't constantly play in the first Bundesliga.

Didn't 1860 München had to pay to Bayern the rent because they already sold their stadium-shares to Bayern in 2006? Newspapers suggest 1860 Munchen will leave the Allianz-Arena and will go back to the old Olympiastadion.

Fizmo1337

May 27th, 2010, 12:25 AM

Why are there always white pillars (with a web) behind each goal in german stadiums? It ruins everything.

Patrick

May 27th, 2010, 12:02 PM

because these are the terraces, and people on the terraces seem to try to throw more things on the pitch than people on seats.

Alemanniafan

May 27th, 2010, 01:29 PM

Why are there always white pillars (with a web) behind each goal in german stadiums? It ruins everything.

Officially the reason to introduce them once was to protect spectators from the hard shots on the goals.
But in reality they only serve to protect the players, especially the goalkeepers from objects the spectators throw.
And as Patrick mentioned, the terracing and thus the hardcore fans are usually located behind the goals. Those nets behind the goals are required in german stadia by some regulations somewhere in whatever guidelines and stadium requirements.

There are also solutions of nets being installed without pillars though, like in the impuls arena in Augsburg where the nets are hanging down from the stadium roof.
In the old Tivoli stadium here in Aachen there was an incident where a coach was hit by an object which led to the match being replayed without spectators and installation of nets all around the pitch for a while. To be visible on TV, the substitutes bench had been moved to the opposite side in front of the terracing stand where the hardcorefans where standing, just shortly before the incident. They were moved back in front of the seated section again afterwards.

eagle in sky

May 28th, 2010, 05:54 PM

Does German federation think be candidate to 2020 European championship ?

MS20

June 22nd, 2010, 05:35 AM

I have a question for any Germans. Basically, why are Leipzig and Dresden such underachievers in footballing terms? Seems to be the only really large state in Germany that doesn't have a representative in the top flight; two big cities in one state and neither are making ground. Both are pretty big places, so whats the issue? I'd also like to know whether Dynamo Dresden and Leipzig are well supported overall? What is the feeling like in those cities when it comes to football?

Thanks in advance!

Rohne

June 22nd, 2010, 07:06 PM

The problem was (or partly still is) simple: mismanagement. Dynamo Dresden played in the first league some seasons, but now they unfortunately are in 3rd league only. Leipzig is even more complicated. It has 2 clubs with great tradition: VfB/Lok and Chemie/Sachsen, both have been strong in GDR's football league, but after the reunification they relegated and relegated while having financial problems.

thun

June 23rd, 2010, 07:33 PM

The new club RB Leipzig will be in the top fly within a few years, that's for sure. Although lots of fans (including Rohne, I suppose) don't like to hear that. :D

npmrsi

July 26th, 2010, 10:14 PM

The new home of FC Ingolstadt (2nd Bundesliga) opened last week.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bf/Audi-Sportpark-inside.jpg/800px-Audi-Sportpark-inside.jpg

Andre_idol

July 27th, 2010, 04:25 AM

Looks great! :)

npmrsi

July 27th, 2010, 11:22 AM

Some pics of the progess at St. Pauli's new main stand.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4098/4805125686_dec1dd70f7.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4120/4804454281_98fbf9df79.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4099/4804461569_5e0f5fafab.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4140/4805112246_6dbbba167c.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4116/4805118332_5594907962.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4136/4804486865_e38e862669.jpg

Webcam:

http://cam.fcstpauli.com/cam_1.jpg?1280222512802

npmrsi

November 1st, 2010, 07:30 PM

The new mainstand in Kassel (4th League) is completed.

http://d.imagehost.org/0906/110_1.jpg

http://d.imagehost.org/0238/120.jpg

http://d.imagehost.org/0314/130.jpg

http://d.imagehost.org/0433/140.jpg

http://b.imagehost.org/0081/150.jpg

http://b.imagehost.org/0227/160.jpg

http://d.imagehost.org/0506/170.jpg

http://b.imagehost.org/0954/850747700-kassel-haupttribuene-auestadion_9.jpg

npmrsi

November 1st, 2010, 07:39 PM

The now completed main stand in Hamburg/St. Pauli.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1178/5131373207_346bae53eb_b.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1352/5131974088_13898cc434_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4139/4937897343_44639e83f7_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4084/5027312942_abfe2358ca_b.jpg

Carlo5

November 1st, 2010, 11:44 PM

Comes there two more new stands in the Millerntor of FC St. Pauli?

npmrsi

November 4th, 2010, 06:27 PM

Comes there two more new stands in the Millerntor of FC St. Pauli?

Yes, the two remaining old stands will also be rebuilt.

Millerntor, Google Street View
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=53.554912,9.968592&spn=0.000307,0.001032&t=h&z=21&layer=c&cbll=53.554912,9.968592&panoid=uJfqYqShGjecTUYSI4YcCQ&cbp=12,242.35,,0,6.84

Werkself

January 12th, 2011, 04:57 PM

The new stadium got the OK to build a new ground. Congratulations to our friends from Kickers Offenbach!!! :banana::banana::banana:

http://www.ofc.de/v4/images/stories/bilder_news/klein_neubau.jpg

http://www.ofc.de/v4/index.php/component/content/article/269-top-news/2370-bilder-zum-neuen-sparda-bank-hessen-stadion

RMB2007

January 12th, 2011, 06:16 PM

^^ It looks like a smaller version of the one being built in Mainz. More identikit stadiums being built in Germany, then. :ohno:

DaveyCakes

January 12th, 2011, 08:49 PM

Zgembo

January 12th, 2011, 10:16 PM

Offenbach are a third division team (although they have a chance of promotion this year). They want a modern, functional, and cost-effective stadium. Do you really think they're going to try to develop some cutting-edge architectural masterpiece that costs a fortune?

Spot on. I really see nothing wrong in cookie cutter stadiums if they are good ones. So many people tend to dislike places like Pride park in Derby or St Mary's in Southampton which IMHO are a way to go for such an enormous number of European clubs and cities.

Benn

January 12th, 2011, 11:13 PM

michał_

January 13th, 2011, 02:14 PM

Speaking as someone in the architectural field the concept of a cookie cutter building of any kind is troubling. Every site, situation and client unique so every solution should be of its site and its user. Now there may be strong similarities between situations which is fine, and here I would hesitate to use the term "cookie cutter" or identical based on a single rendering although they do appear to have a lot of similarities. And not to suggest they should be shelling out 100s of millions of euros they don't have, but they should hire a thoughtful, capable designer, and try to develop a scheme that really fits their identity as a team and as a city.

And that's very well said.

Except that I don't see the reason for such a discussion with this stadium. It is very far from Mainz and basing such comparisons on the fact that the roof is connected without really building corner stands is very far-fetched. The examples of Derby Park or St. Mary's mentioned Zgembo are a different story...

Alemanniafan

January 13th, 2011, 05:37 PM

And that's very well said.

Except that I don't see the reason for such a discussion with this stadium. It is very far from Mainz and basing such comparisons on the fact that the roof is connected without really building corner stands is very far-fetched. The examples of Derby Park or St. Mary's mentioned Zgembo are a different story...

Well it's the good old standard discussion of complaining about cookie cutter designs. Sadly or luckily (depending on the point of view) a soccer stadium usually really does look like a stadium. - Oh what a surprise!

People tend to forget that old and traditional stadia were mostly not any more unique than modern ones. I'd even say most of the time the eact oposite is the case. Hardly any other type of arena has been copied more often than the ancient roman Colloseum style of "cookie cutter" arenas for example.
And the famous often idealized typical english football stadia are rarely outstandingly unique. They're just overloaded with history, emotions, and myths. But they often do look quite simmilar to each other also.
Stadia generally do look more alike than being easily distinguishable at the first glimpse. It's allways been like that and it'll allways remain to be so, simply because these buildings all mainly serve technical purposes and the demands are very simmilar and optimum solutions to the common problems are very limited.

In this case of the proposed Stadium in Offenbach the most obvious simmilarity with the new stadium in Mainz are the clubs colours integrated into the stadium design and the open corners.
So of course if you like anyone may say the new coface-arena in Mainz looks very much like the Rheinenergie-stadion in Cologne and also like a bigger brother to the new proposal in Offenbach. But despite these simmilarities hardly anyone would probably say the one in Ofenbach really does look like the one in Cologne even though the simmilarities between those two are in some aspects even bigger than with Mainz.
A stadium with open corners will allways look like a stadium with open corners, what else ist to be expected? And yes it's allmost a little bit of a trend here in Germany lately to have open corners in order to get an english style of soccer stadium.
But if you look at the stadia closer you'll see the one in Mainz has far more simmilarities to the New Tivoli even though they hardly look alike on the first glimpse, because the new Tivoli is all yellow and the coface arena red/white but they are designed by the same architect and have a lot in common since most of the chosen solutions and stadiums features are identical in aachen and Mainz.
In Offenbach that is clearly not the case. And there indeed are a few more renders if you just follow the link under the posted picture, which reveal some very clear differences between the stadia in Mainz and in Offenbach.
And in the text it says the facade of the stadium in Offenbach shall be covered with red brickstones, in real life that shall probably end up looking quite noticeably different than the red painted concrete in Mainz. It'll probably have a character which will show far more simmilartities to the new Millerntor-Stadium in St. Pauli than to the coface-arena in Mainz. This brickstone character will probably look pretty good, but sadly it is anything but typical for the local traditional architecture, so I believe it'll probably allways be some sort of "foreign body" due to this locally rather uncommon building material.

Rev Stickleback

January 14th, 2011, 07:58 PM

Well it's the good old standard discussion of complaining about cookie cutter designs. Sadly or luckily (depending on the point of view) a soccer stadium usually really does look like a stadium. - Oh what a surprise!

In this case of the proposed Stadium in Offenbach the most obvious simmilarity with the new stadium in Mainz are the clubs colours integrated into the stadium design and the open corners.

I hope they don't go with the grey seats - very dull.

It doesn't look that much like Mainz to me, other than being single tier. It's hard to tell from those pictures, but does it have a terrace down the side like their current ground. The side seemed to be the main fan area when I paid a visit to their current ground a couple of years ago. It's just that is states a capacity of 20,000 with 10,000 seats, and there doesn't look anywhere near enough room for 10,000 if only one end was terracing.

But if you look at the stadia closer you'll see the one in Mainz has far more simmilarities to the New Tivoli even though they hardly look alike on the first glimpse, because the new Tivoli is all yellow and the coface arena red/white but they are designed by the same architect and have a lot in common since most of the chosen solutions and stadiums features are identical in aachen and Mainz..
How has the new Tivoli been accepted? I went to the old place in its last season - again, another ground where the best atmosphere was a side terrace - and I did wonder how the experience would compare. Crowds are now lower than at the old ground, aren't they? (albeit with a team not doing so well)

Generally I've found that standard of new German stadiums to be all-round much better than their English counterparts. The only caveat on that would be the German stadium designers' seemingly unshakeable belief that only about nine people are likely to want to go to the loo at half time.

Alemanniafan

January 18th, 2011, 03:25 AM

...
How has the new Tivoli been accepted? I went to the old place in its last season - again, another ground where the best atmosphere was a side terrace - and I did wonder how the experience would compare. Crowds are now lower than at the old ground, aren't they? (albeit with a team not doing so well)

Generally I've found that standard of new German stadiums to be all-round much better than their English counterparts. The only caveat on that would be the German stadium designers' seemingly unshakeable belief that only about nine people are likely to want to go to the loo at half time.

Well there sadly is no really simple and brief answer to that simple Question, but I'll give it a try.

On one hand the acceptance is pretty good actually, considering we have the 3rd or 4th highest average attendancy in the second Bundesliga. On the other hand the new Tivoli is so expensive that the club needs to pay 6 mio€ per year to refinance it. So the needed average attendancy is 20 000 visitors per matchday. Which sadly is more than ambitious considering other clubs attendancies in the league, the unfriendly kickoff times due to the league optimizing the shedule for Pay TV and not stadium visitors. So the attendance could and should also be higher.
What's very positive is the clubs perormance in the DFB Pokal. We knocked out Mainz and Frankfurt and will be playing against the FC Bayern München on the 26th Jan in the new Tivoli. due to that match more than 1000 season tickets were sold and a 5000 tickets in a 3 in one deal (Karlsruhe Fürth and Bayern). So that alone should probably give the average attendancies the necessary boost to reach the desired and necessary 20000 mark at the end of the season. So the attendancy dropped a little after the first season where more season tckets were sold and the club performed pretty poorly.
Now we have a new, very young team which plays very attractively and so it's going upwards slightly again.

Now about the second part of the question, the stadiums atmosphere and its comparison to that of the old Tivoli:
They're two very different type of stadia so the atmosphere is naturally very different also. The atmosphere in the old Tivoli was legendary and it'll allways be missed. Comparing the atmosphere in the new Tivoli to that of the old one is not really useful, since the old Tivoli had nearly only terracing and the new Tivoli has only about 1/3 of the overall capacity in terracing.
Since the average attendancy is currently only about 18000 to 19000 and the second league currently doesnt attract much larger crowds (except for the Hertha BSC in Berlin which does have much higher attendancies than all other cubs where the attendancies are simmilar or lower) the stadium usually has around 12000 empty seats. And since many fans here in Aachen are used to standing and prefer to watch a game standing the terracing is usually very well visited. And the result is an awkward effect of usually about half of the visitors standing on just one stand, behind the goal and the other half being spread out over the the other three stands, leaving plenty of empty yellow seats. Especially on the north stand where the regular ticket prices are simply just too high. So unless the attendancy is around 25000 the stadium does usually looks quite a bit emptier than it is.
But when the attendancy is high enough I believe the atmosphere is currently truely great again. Especially in the DFB Pokal matches against Mainz or Frankfurt it was extremely loud on the koop stand.

Another very important aspect about the atmosphere in new Tivoli are the changes in the fanscene and discussions and evolution processes in optimizing the atmoshere, trying to find way back to the roots, back to a classic Tivoli style of atmosphere, a support that tries to really influence the match and focus on the incidents and happening on the pitch instead of just celebrating and dancing and singing for 90 minutes non stop, like the Ultras usually enjoy doing.
So the Ultra issue here for example and the typical Ultra style of support has caused plenty of discussions and changes in the clubs fanbase. As a result in the beginning of this season the Ultra scene has split up into two kinds of Ultras. Those that remain doing what all other Ultras do and a new group of Ultras which have been convinced to go back to a classic style of support atmosphere which used to characterize the outstanding Tivoli atmosphere in the past. So after the last season where normal fans were increasingly deliberately sing against the Ultras and louder than the Ultras, now with the ultras having split up into these two groups the atmosphere on the terracing stand has begun to improve quite a lot. Meaning it improved in terms of a style of support that's traditionally relating to the hapenings on the pitch and not in terms of a support focused on Ultra style singing for 90 minutes non stop no matter what happens on the grass.
So the club Alemannia is going a very unique way of trying to bring back or recreate a classic type of support into the new Tivoli unlike most other clubs in Germany which are all going with the new Ultra fashion kind of support.
But it of course a delevoping process and the atmosphere is improving growing bit by bit to become some new Tivoli kind of classic stadium atmosphere, however that will eventually turn out to be.
But it's greatly improved from this season in comparison to last season, and even in comparison to several matchdays in the final season of the old Tivoli where the atmosphere was naturally also far from the old Tivoli's best days due to the awfully boring yet fairly successful, nearly italian style of soccer the team played under the former head coach Jürgen Seeberger.

As any modern stadium with mostly seats the atmosphere is only truely great when the stadium is well visited. Older stadia with mostly terracing surely do have the big advantage of allways looking very crowded. Nearly independant from the actual attendancy, because in terracing areas people are allways distributed more evenly, as soon as the terracing is a little more than half full so it allways looks crowded. Whereas in seated areas nearly half of the seats would naturally remain visibly and well noticeably empty, so seated areas need a far higher attendancy to appear full or crowded than terracing areas do.
But when the new Tivoli is full, it can really be incredibly loud and impressive.
The loudest match I myself have ever been to for example, was the match against Mainz 05 in the new Tivoli where afterwards my ears where still ringing for two whole days.
But of course the new Tivoli will never have this lovely 1950's style of historic soccer atmosphere rthe old Tivoli had, were a stadium visit was almost kind of a timetraveling experience back into the "good old days of soccer".

They're just very different stadia but both very good ones.
And what you would probably really enjoy... the new Tivoli does have an incredible and in my personal view truely outstanding capacity of restrooms. So one can now easily (and very relaxed, without overly having to hurry) go have a loo at halftimebreak and get a new beer and bratwurst and still be back in time before the second half begins. That's indeeded a major improvement and a major surplus in terms of comfort for the new Tivoli. And as you say not necessarily something typical for modern stadia in Germany in general.

Ps: The new proposal for the stadium in Offenbach will have terracing on more than just one side the text in the link said. A very good thing that it'll have a high amount of terracing. And I also like that it even does still halfwhat look a bit like the current stadium in Offenbach here and there.

frashp2

January 26th, 2011, 09:57 PM

Nice. :)

Werkself

January 27th, 2011, 08:09 AM

Alemanniafan

January 27th, 2011, 03:27 PM

Terracing has nothing to do with atmosphere. For me seats are even better because you have more space to support. As Leverkusen fan I knwo that from first hand, visiting international matches for example against ARIS in Salonika.

The real problem is that clubs tend to make money and build too big stadiums. The real supporters get lost in the crowd, and some get influenced by the high modern standards that are not the atmosphere for behaving like a wild and supporting animal.

New Tivoli is an example of making a stadium too big, Borussia Mönchengladbach is another one. The supporters are concentrated at one corner an the atmosphere got quiet. Imo, switching to more (and cheap) seats will solve that.

Even in Leverkusen the only additional 7500 were too much. Although our fanbase is continuously growing, it will take years to get back the legendary atmosphere of 2000s decade.

Complete nonsense, but what else can one expect from a Fan of Leverkusen. One of the clubs with the poorest stadium atmospheres in Germany, maybe even in Europe. A club that barely draws an average attendancy of 16.474 in their Euroleague homegames which means the Bayarena was nearly half empty.

The New Tivoli is not oversized just, as the Borussiapark isn't oversized either and in both these stadia the atmosphere is far superior to the atmosphere in Leverkusen, especially considering the fact that Gladbach is last in the first hardly ever winning a match and Aachen is 10 in the second bundesliga.

Terracing surely and undoubtably does improve the atmosphere. In real terracing there simply are twice as many people on the same space than in areas with seats or tip up seats. In Düsseldorf Fans fought long to finally get their terracing area.
Any german stadium that has a legendary atmosphere, has that because of their terracing section. First and foremost Dortmund but also Frankfurt, Gladbach, Schalke, Kaiserslautern or Colone. And even the Millerntorstadium or the old Tivoli or the former Bökelberg in Gladbach were well known and well respected for their more or less legendary atmospheres, because of their terracing.

Well but Bayer 04 Leverkusen of course never ever had any legendary atmosphere, not in the 2000 decade and not in any other decade before or after.
Only Bayer fans like you might believe they ever had a legendary atmosphere, because they think a hand full of sold out homegames, with fans cheering for more than 20 minutes in agame with a clear 5:0 victory is legendary.
But noone outside of Leverkusen, noone elsewhere in Germany would ever even think about mentioning the stadium atmosphere in the Bayarena as one out of germanys top ten.
The stadium atmosphere in Leverkusen is hardly any better than that in Hoffenheim or Wolfsburg.

npmrsi

January 27th, 2011, 04:18 PM

Complete nonsense, but what else can one expect from a Fan of Leverkusen. One of the clubs with the poorest stadium atmospheres in Germany, maybe even in Europe. A club that barely draws an average attendancy of 16.474 in their Euroleague homegames which means the Bayarena was nearly half empty.

The New Tivoli is not oversized just, as the Borussiapark isn't oversized either and in both these stadia the atmosphere is far superior to the atmosphere in Leverkusen, especially considering the fact that Gladbach is last in the first hardly ever winning a match and Aachen is 10 in the second bundesliga.

Terracing surely and undoubtably does improve the atmosphere. In real terracing there simply are twice as many people on the same space than in areas with seats or tip up seats. In Düsseldorf Fans fought long to finally get their terracing area.
Any german stadium that has a legendary atmosphere, has that because of their terracing section. First and foremost Dortmund but also Frankfurt, Gladbach, Schalke, Kaiserslautern or Colone. And even the Millerntorstadium or the old Tivoli or the former Bökelberg in Gladbach were well known and well respected for their more or less legendary atmospheres, because of their terracing.

Well but Bayer 04 Leverkusen of course never ever had any legendary atmosphere, not in the 2000 decade and not in any other decade before or after.
Only Bayer fans like you might believe they ever had a legendary atmosphere, because they think a hand full of sold out homegames, with fans cheering for more than 20 minutes in agame with a clear 5:0 victory is legendary.
But noone outside of Leverkusen, noone elsewhere in Germany would ever even think about mentioning the stadium atmosphere in the Bayarena as one out of germanys top ten.
The stadium atmosphere in Leverkusen is hardly any better than that in Hoffenheim or Wolfsburg.

Couldn't agree more. Good post!!

Werkself

January 27th, 2011, 08:50 PM

Alemanniafan

January 27th, 2011, 10:43 PM

BayArena was sold out for nearly a decade and that was perfect for the atmosphere, which by the way, had the first choreographies and ultras in the Bundesliga. But OK, it´s quite understandable that a fan of Aachen doesnt know anything about the first Bundesliga. ;-)

To continue your lesson, why were Böckelberg, Pauli oder Old Tivoli legendary? Because of terracing? No. Because the supporting sections were nearly on every side and not like now just one behind the goal. And, they were much smaller than nowadays, making the stadium packed every match. Last match at Borussia-Park (New Böckelberg) 32.000 Att of 55.000. Atmosphere was one of the badest I witnessed lately in the Bundesliga.

Real support has nothing to do with terracing, you should visit a match in Greece or Turkey to see real atmosphere in very little All-Seaters.

Ultras: Well that's the first point where we both wi'll probably never agree.
Ultras are anything but good for a stadiums atmosphere. All they really do is constant singing no matter what happens on the pitch. There are plenty of clubs where the issue of the "Ultra problem" is being diversely discussed. But Bayer 04 Leverkusen of course isn't one of those. Here in Aachen we're working hard to get rid of this constant singing in order to establish a classic matchoriented support.

The old Tivoli and the old Bökelberg stadium had terracing on many sides. But in both stadia the hardcore supporters or the ultras were all together in one section.
But in the old Tivoli and in the Bökelberg there were also other groups who were remarkably loud on other stands. The old Tivoli and the Bökelberg were both not allways sold out, but since they had mostly terracing both of these old stadia allways looked full. It was really difficult to tell when the olf tivoli was sold out. Only as a frequent visitor who knows what parts of which sections where the last to be cramped full with people, you were able to tell how well a match was visited or when it was nearly or fully sold out.
In any modern stadium with mostly seats it's easy to tell because you can easily tell every single unoccupied seat.

It's really not the small groups of Hardcore supporters being spread all around the pitch, but terracing on many sides of the pitch instead, that improves the atmosphere most significantly.

But even when the terracing is all concentrated on one end, on a koop stand, it can be quite impressive.
And exactly that's also the reason why nearly the entire world of soccer (except Leverkusen maybe) is impressed by the worlds largest terracing stand in Dortmund, the so called "Gelbe Wand" and not by the VIP Aquarium stand in Leverkusen. Even thought that's probably far more unique and architecturally interesting.

But you're right in a sense that the atmosphere in the new Tivoli or the Borussia Park stadium are not quite as "good" as they were in the old Tivoli or the Bökelberg.
But in todays modern time it's simply not possible to place a terracing stand 2,5 meters from the sidelines of a pitch, with fences where homefans would scream "AAArgh" and jump against like maniac monkeys in order to scare and impress players of opponent teams. Where fans could allmost touch and grab players who were abuot to do kick a corner.
Nowadays the minimum distances are 6,5 meters at the sides and 7 meters behind the goals, that's a distance where one naturally instunctively feels quite safe and comfortable, because crazy maniac fans are simply too far away do really impress or to seem really dangerous. But 2,5 or 3 meters is just a tiny jump away, so one is naturally rather alarmed when someone jumps around like crazy that close to oneself, even with a fence in between.

But just like the Borussia Park stadium the new Tivoli are bpth louder than the traditional counterparts when they are sold out simply due to the increase of size. And because of the accoustics of a metal roof all around the pitch.
I've been to all of these stadia and I too surely prefer the artmosphere in the old stadia. But I have noticed that the new ones are indeed louder when they really do get very loud than the old ones did. At least from my experiences.
But of course the days where record attendancies of 32000 visitors were "counted" in the old Tivoli and up in it's floodlights and the trees where before I was born so I personally can't compare the atmosphere to to those days back then.

Oh and about "choreographies". Have you ever heard of the legendary "Streichholzparade" or the "Konfettiparade" in the old Tivoli?
Those were truely impressive "choreographies", far earlier and I'm talking ecades earlier here, than what you're talking about in the Bay-Arena, with it's few cute little singing Ultra teenies.

Werkself

January 27th, 2011, 11:39 PM

The old Tivoli and the old Bökelberg stadium had terracing on many sides. But in both stadia the hardcore supporters or the ultras were all together in one section.
But in the old Tivoli and in the Bökelberg there were also other groups who were remarkably loud on other stands.
Now they are all on one stand and the atmosphere is bad. Is has nothing to do with terracing.

I have been a lot of times to the Signal Iduna Park in Dortmund and I can say atmosphere can be shit there as in the Allianz Arena. Südtribüne is most of the time crap if there aint big successes on the field.

Quantity can be louder, yes. But normally small stadia are better.

Regarding Leverkusen, I dont want to do flamewars with a childish fanboy like you.

cmc

January 28th, 2011, 01:07 AM

my favorite 2 of Germany...
http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/8261/75551130.png
http://www.musikmarkt.de/var/storage/images/aktuell/news/news/veltins-arena-peter-peters-verlaesst-geschaeftsfuehrung-dienstag-03.-august-2010/5487728-1-ger-DE/Veltins-Arena-Peter-Peters-verlaesst-Geschaeftsfuehrung-Dienstag-03.-August-2010.jpe

derzberb

January 29th, 2011, 10:04 AM

@allemmanniafan&werkself: what is your discussion about? the cutest, nicest, süßest, hüppschest athmosphere, best scampi&schampus are in Arroganzarena, the one and only, where the beautiful FC Bayern plays the football and all the others shit in their trousers. :banana:

Rev Stickleback

January 29th, 2011, 12:01 PM

where the beautiful FC Bayern plays the football and all the others shit in their trousers.

you'd think the bayern players would learn to store their trousers somewhere more secure in future.

derzberb

January 29th, 2011, 03:42 PM

you'd think the bayern players would learn to store their trousers somewhere more secure in future.

:rofl:

Patrick

February 3rd, 2011, 09:04 PM

The Düsseldorf thing hasn't been posted yet?

Ok, I will: Germany will host the 2011 Eurovision Song Contest (formerly known as Grand Prix d'Eurovision de la chanson), and the chosen location will be the Rheinstadion (EspritLTUwhatever-Arena) in Düsseldorf. But this event will take place in May...when the football season is not over yet. First, there were plans to move back to the old Paul-Janes-Stadion, but abandoned due to security reasons afaik...so a swiss company is currently building a new temorary stadium near the Rheinstadion, which will be demolished again after only 3 games will have played inside in April/May. Capacity: 20,000. Costs: 2.800.000 €.

www.rp-online.de
www.fortuna-duesseldorf.de
http://1.1.1.4/bmi/www2.fortuna-duesseldorf.de/typo3temp/pics/bdade1856b.jpg

http://1.1.1.2/bmi/www2.fortuna-duesseldorf.de/typo3temp/pics/e3fc7eb1ae.jpg

http://1.1.1.4/bmi/www2.fortuna-duesseldorf.de/typo3temp/pics/714c63cd1a.jpg

http://1.1.1.3/bmi/static.rp-online.de/layout/fotos/457x325/62157-anistadion7.jpghttp://static.rp-online.de/layout/fotos/457x325/62157-anistadion1.jpghttp://static.rp-online.de/layout/fotos/457x325/62157-anistadion2.jpghttp://static.rp-online.de/layout/fotos/457x325/62157-anistadion4.jpghttp://static.rp-online.de/layout/fotos/457x325/62157-anistadion3.jpghttp://static.rp-online.de/layout/fotos/457x325/62157-anistadion5.jpghttp://static.rp-online.de/layout/fotos/457x325/62157-anistadion6.jpg

hmueller2

February 4th, 2011, 12:56 PM

they are building a 2.800.000 stadium for 3 games?!?! :wtf:

Werkself

February 4th, 2011, 02:49 PM

Alemanniafan

February 4th, 2011, 03:16 PM

Yes, its crazy, but where should they go else?

Leverkusen & Mönchengladbach - Clubstadium, wont be leased to others
Cologne - Riots
Duisburg, Bochum - also playing 2nd league

The only possible option would be Wuppertal, but i think its too crappy for them. :nuts:
I'd say that's only half true.
Mönchengladbach rented their stadium out once to Weegberg Beek for a DFB Cup game against Aachen.

Leverkusen rented the Esprit Arena, where Düsseldorf regularly plays, themself and played there for about half a season while they modernized their own Bay-Arena. So why should they generally not rent it out to Düsseldorf in return as an exception for just three games?

Cologne rented out "their" stadium to Alemannia Aachen (just like Düsseldorf a lokal rival from Cologne with major antipathies) for Aachens UEFA-cup "homegames".

Duisburg and Bochum are both also playing second league, but they might still be useable as homevenues for Düsseldorf as long as they'd have a rotating schedule in the league, pairing the two clubs up, so having a homegame in Duisburg and an away match for Dusseldorf and vice versa for example (same with Bochum).
And Wuppertal would probably still have been better than the old Jahnstadion which originally was a serious option.

But as we see they build a temporary stadium now instead. A complete waste of money in my opinion, but an interesting project nevertheless.
And when I look at the pictures I ask myself why this temporary stadium used only in April and May needs to be fully covered with a roof?
Why not save the money and just cover the VIP and business seats on one or two of the stands? after all, it's just a temporary move for three homegames, does it really have to be that "fancy" then? For games in springtime, where chances are pretty good that the weather isn't all that bad?

Werkself

February 4th, 2011, 07:11 PM

Leverkusen rented the Esprit Arena, where Düsseldorf regularly plays, themself and played there for about half a season while they modernized their own Bay-Arena. So why should they generally not rent it out to Düsseldorf in return as an exception for just three games?
Yes, but Bayer Leverkusen rented it from the city of Düsseldorf. Now the club Fortuna Düsseldorf wants to rent the stadium from Bayer Leverkusen, but we dont rent our stadium to other clubs generally. In addition all the clubs infrastucture is in the BayArena, so its a security thing AND it could be a problem for the training there, especially when we are still in the Europe League.

To cologne, I know that Aachen is a rival, but I think with Düsseldorf it comes to a complete different level, especially with those hooligans. Did your games in cologne went out fine?

Whatever, the city of Düsseldorf has more than enough money, how they spent it I dont care. :bash:

Alemanniafan

February 4th, 2011, 08:47 PM

Yes, but Bayer Leverkusen rented it from the city of Düsseldorf. Now the club Fortuna Düsseldorf wants to rent the stadium from Bayer Leverkusen, but we dont rent our stadium to other clubs generally. In addition all the clubs infrastucture is in the BayArena, so its a security thing AND it could be a problem for the training there, especially when we are still in the Europe League.

To cologne, I know that Aachen is a rival, but I think with Düsseldorf it comes to a complete different level, especially with those hooligans. Did your games in cologne went out fine?

Whatever, the city of Düsseldorf has more than enough money, how they spent it I dont care. :bash:

Well they surely wouldn't have rented Leverusens the clubs office rooms or training facilities for three matchdays.
But who cares... they build a temporary stadium anyway now.

Our UEFA Cup games in Cologne went all fine.
We had lots of fun singing: "Wir scheißen in die Südkurve!" :-)
Had record attendancies for Alemannia homegames and Cologne Fans didn't care all that much it seems to me, but I'm surely no expert on that question.
I personally had the impression Gladbach Fans were far more upset about the fact that the first DFB Cup match ever being held in the Borussia Park was one of their "friendly Club" Weegberg Beek. (they have some lokal cooperation with them)
And of course that it happened to be against their so much hated lokal rival Aachen - and of course also won by Aachen.
They indeed made sure that the terracing area of the Borussiapark, the "Nordkurve" was strictly reserved for Weegberg Beeks Fans when they rented out the stadium to them. And publicly pointed out to their fans, that this way Alemannias fans wouldn't end up standing in their "holy" home territory.
:-)

imbee

February 5th, 2011, 09:14 PM

why is there

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1734

no topic about millerntor stadion?

thun

February 5th, 2011, 11:49 PM

Afaik they pay the "stadium" with the money earned by hosting the Eurovision Song Contest. Apparently, they will still run a surplus. Nevertheless, it's crazy.

Alemanniafan

February 6th, 2011, 01:17 AM

Afaik they pay the "stadium" with the money earned by hosting the Eurovision Song Contest. Apparently, they will still run a surplus. Nevertheless, it's crazy.

There probably won't be any surplus for the soccer club Fortuna Düsseldorf and maybe also not for the city.
The Esprit Arena where the Eurovision Song Contest is being held belongs to the city. They rent it out to the soccer club for very cheap.
The city will get the money from the Eurocision Song Contest for renting the stadium out to them for 6 weeks or so.
Some of all that money, or most of it, or probably even more than that actually, will obviously go into building the temporary stadium.
Would be interesting to know how much money the Eurovision Song Contest pays for renting the Esprit Arena and if that's more or anywhere near or considerably less than 2.8 mio € and how much the city of Düsseldorf earns through other generated incomes that come with hosting the song contest.
As far as I know the soccer club Fortuna Düssldorf currently pays quite a bit less rent than that, for an entire season.

Alemanniafan

February 6th, 2011, 01:37 AM

why is there

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1734

no topic about millerntor stadion?

Probably because noone opened a thread on it there.

Maybe that's also because half of that modernized stadium would actually kinda belong here:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1732

And the other half here:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1736
:nuts:

imbee

February 6th, 2011, 03:44 PM

the stadium is still in development or not?

would be great to have a special thread for it. does somebody have some plans about the final project?

Patrick

February 17th, 2011, 01:52 AM

Our UEFA Cup games in Cologne went all fine.
We had lots of fun singing: "Wir scheißen in die Südkurve!" :-)
Had record attendancies for Alemannia homegames and Cologne Fans didn't care all that much it seems to me, but I'm surely no expert on that question.

I just saw that now, so sry for the late response.

My impressions are that Aachen is generally not seen as a major hatred rival in Cologne, at least not as big as Gladbach or Leverkusen (or Düsseldorf or Lautern), and so do I.

up5

March 3rd, 2011, 05:28 PM

Hamburg or Frankfurt. :)

imbee

March 10th, 2011, 02:31 AM

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/thumb/c/cb/Rot-Weiss-Essen-Logo-3D.svg/100px-Rot-Weiss-Essen-Logo-3D.svg.png

RW Essen

1x Champion:
1955

2x Cup Winner:
1953

Current stadium:Georg-Melches-Stadion
http://www.stadion-essen.de/multimedia/galerien/luftaufnahmen-maerz-2010/luftaufnahme_03.jpg
www.stadion-essen.de

http://www.derwesten.de/omg/1395115-409063436/530_530_0021493854-0052232965.JPG.jpg
http://www.derwesten.de

Render 1st stage

http://www.stadion-essen.de/multimedia/galerien/3d-ansichten/perspektive-1.jpgwww.stadion-essen.de

http://www.stadion-essen.de/multimedia/galerien/3d-ansichten/perspektive-3.jpgwww.stadion-essen.de

Capacity: 20.650
Seats: 11.320
Terrace: 9.040
Business seats: 1.100
Vip: 14 boxes (290 seats)

Render 2nd stage

http://www.stadion-essen.de/multimedia/galerien/3d-ansichten/perspektive-8.jpgwww.stadion-essen.de

Capacity: about 25.000

In a 3rd Stage it is planned to add a 2nd tier to increase capacity to 35.000

Webcam
http://www.stadion-essen.de/multimedia

Benn

March 10th, 2011, 02:59 AM

Kind of like it better with the corners open, very efficient, nicely proportioned little stadium. Good if you like a sort of crisp industrial feel.

Evil78

March 10th, 2011, 10:51 AM

Werkself

March 10th, 2011, 11:09 AM

Stage 3 is just a dream. There will be decades till an upper tier is needed.

RW Essen is playing in the 5th german league.

Evil78

March 10th, 2011, 11:20 AM

Stage 3 is just a dream. There will be decades till an upper tier is needed.

RW Essen is playing in the 5th german league.

Why? If i remember well, R.W.Essen has great fans, and a lot of them.
But maybe you're right. Being in the 5th division, doesn't really attract spectators and most importantly: investments...

Alemanniafan

March 10th, 2011, 11:29 AM

Stage1- 20.650 seats, stage2- 25.000 seats, stage3- 35.000 ???:dunno: How? They build stage2, and after that they disassemble the stadium and the roof again, to build another tier? What kind of a weird plan is that? :nuts: Why don't they build it like that in stage1 or stage2? So practically the stadium will be a big construction-site for the next what...6-7 years?

Stage 3 is or better was obviously not a "plan", but much rather just merely the common advertising argument. Used to pretend it's built to last for ever and ever and that it allready even has all the necessary preparations to be eventally turned into a championsleague-final suitable 5 star venue someday should that be needed.

imbee

March 10th, 2011, 12:23 PM

@imbee I have a few questions... This stadium has 20.650 seats now and it will have 35.000 after it's finished??? Or it will have 20.650 seats after they build it (because you wrote in the title of the thread 20.650. Which normally means the number of seats after the construction)?? :dunno:
And is the stadium under construction?? There are no photos which show that...They demolished the old stadium or they build it near the old stadium? In that webcam you can see only an empty field...
Those renders show the official project?? And what's up with those stages? stage 1, stage 2, stage3.... is there some kind of timeline? You didn't give any details on that.
Stage1- 20.650 seats, stage2- 25.000 seats, stage3- 35.000 ???:dunno: How? They build stage2, and after that they disassemble the stadium and the roof again, to build another tier? What kind of a weird plan is that? :nuts: Why don't they build it like that in stage1 or stage2? So practically the stadium will be a big construction-site for the next what...6-7 years?

The stadium after first stage will have a capacity of 20.650 and I think it will stay like that for a while. like alemaniafan said, it is more like advertising.

The situation in Essen was like that.
Essens debts are about 3 billion euro but the city decided to build a stadium in cooperation with the club RW Essen so that they started to destroyed the west stand in 2009.

In 2010 RW Essen went insolvent and everything was stopped.

After a long debate in the media and maybe the public pressure the city decided to build the stadium. (32 million €, of which 24€ is the part of the city of essen http://www.wdr.de/themen/sport/fussball/rwe/110306.jhtml)

In the webcam you can see a part of the actaul field. west- and a part of the north stand was destroyed. the mai stand will be build where west stand was.

Deadline is late 2012

npmrsi

March 11th, 2011, 05:57 PM

By the way, RW-Essen set a new record attendance for a game in the 5th-league (NRW-Liga). A total attendance of 12,512 saw the derby between RW-Essen and Schwarz-Weiss Essen.

http://www.derwesten.de/img/4377881-1929093914/0273_543_37458241-747-543x199.jpg

Cirdan

March 13th, 2011, 05:23 AM

For a club like Essen, I think it makes sense to have extension plans ready, even if they might never come to fruit. For amateur football, even their stage 1 seems a bit over the top in my opinion... but if they manage to get back into the 2nd division, it would be a bit small. With stage 2 and 3 already planned, they won't need to build a completely new stadium if that happens.

imbee

March 15th, 2011, 04:26 PM

Kickers offenbach new stradium (20.500)

Project Render
http://i55.tinypic.com/2vxh94n.jpg
www.ofc.de

demolish process of the of old stadium
http://i56.tinypic.com/25un1fr.jpg
www.offenbach.de

Lupin III

March 15th, 2011, 10:52 PM

So besides Mainz building new.... Essen, Offenbach and Halle are building atm.

What about Jena, Erfurt, Regensburg does anybody know the timeline there?

I was also wandering what if Fürth have any plans?

wangjiwei

March 16th, 2011, 01:27 PM

I am a big fan of the Berlin stadium, but I believe the blue track is jarring, and does not go with the rest of the stadium. The roof is incredible though. cheap party dresses (http://www.goodgoodschina.com/categories/clothing-apparel/party-dresses)

KingNick

March 17th, 2011, 03:00 AM

@New RWE ground: Please, stick with stage 1 and don't go any further! It looks really decent whereas stage 2 is boring as hell. In case there is a need to expand (which is very unlikely anyway) just build a second tier above the two main stands. Just like here:

http://mw2.google.com/mw-panoramio/photos/medium/5176336.jpg

npmrsi

March 17th, 2011, 10:30 AM

The temporary stadium in Düsseldorf is completed. Naming rights have been sold to AirBerlin ("airberlin world"). The first game will be Germany U17 - Ukraine U17 on 26 March 2011.

Webcam
http://webcam.kukzeitraffer.de/kukwebcam18/current.jpg

SpicyMcHaggis

March 17th, 2011, 10:38 AM

Why did they build that ground?

Kampflamm

March 17th, 2011, 11:30 AM

Because of the Eurovision song contest which will take place at the ESPRIT Arena. Kind of pointless imo.

npmrsi

March 20th, 2011, 01:08 AM

Update from the second division of basketball (Pro A), where Bayern München managed to set a new record attendance against the Würzburgs Baskets. 12,200 people saw the game in the Olympiahalle.
http://www.augsburger-allgemeine.de/img/13853356-1298219305000/topTeaser_crop_fcb.jpg

Bayern usually plays in the Olympia-Eisstadion (~3,200 seats)
http://www.energiehandel-englmann.de/img/680380655-bayern-basketball.9.jpg

But since they managed to be promoted to the Basketball Bundesliga they want to move to the 7,200 seat Rudi-Sedlmayer-Halle, which will be renovated for about €1,2 mio.
http://i.imgur.com/b8knl.jpg

Twister2010

March 31st, 2011, 11:48 PM

Suspected bombs found near Borussia Dortmund stadium

Police tape near Westfalenstadion in Dortmund (31 March 2011) The devices were found in a car park near the 65,000-seat Westfalenstadion

German police say they have detained a 25-year-old man after three suspected explosive devices were found outside Borussia Dortmund's stadium.

Three devices were also found in the flat of the suspect, who is German.

The Federal Criminal Police Office said he was arrested in Cologne on Tuesday after e-mailing anonymous tips about planned attacks to the authorities.

The interior ministry has sought to reassure the public, saying he had "no links to terrorist or Islamist" groups.

"The suspect was apparently acting on his own with a criminal motivation. There was no danger to any third parties at any time," a spokesman said.
Embassy tip

Michael Stein, a spokesman for the Dortmund police department, said: "We expect no security threat at all for the upcoming Bundesliga match on Saturday. The visitors are invited to come to Dortmund. They will be safe here."

An investigation was begun by the police in February after an anonymous tip was sent to the German embassy in the Pakistani capital, Islamabad, offering to provide information about two attacks being planned.

When the suspect was arrested, he admitted sending the e-mail tips and making up details of the attacks, officials said.

He then told officers about the explosive devices near Borussia Dortmund's stadium and in his flat.

The Bundesliga leaders said the devices were found in a car park a few hundred metres from the 80,000-seat Westfalenstadion.

Tests have yet to determine whether they could have exploded.

Officials said they believed it might have been a blackmail attempt.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12929623

imbee

April 12th, 2011, 12:11 PM

Work started at Stadion Essen

http://i52.tinypic.com/2u8gf0z.jpg
http://www.stadion-essen.de

imbee

April 22nd, 2011, 03:36 PM

On day 30 of German Bundesliga all stadia were sold out. 429.450 people attended the games. Avarage of Bundesliga this year is 42.414

more
http://www.rp-online.de/sport/fussball/bundesliga/Bundesliga-1011-30-Spieltag-Fakten_bid_64222.html?skip=2

MS20

April 23rd, 2011, 06:51 AM

Good work everyone! And when you consider that Stuttgart's and Bremen's attendances have been affected greatly by renovations and that Mainz and St Pauli are playing in a stadium that's too small for them it becomes even more impressive.

I think any league that is averaging over 20,000 is strong; any that is averaging over 30,000 is great; and any averaging over 40,000 is outstanding. Germany is in that category, but if the right teams are in the Bundesliga you could almost see them pushing 50,000, as incredible as that would be.

You do wonder what their limit is. What do German fans think is the ceiling for the Bundesliga? Of course unlike other sports a lot of it depends on who's in the league at any given year.

thun

April 24th, 2011, 12:55 AM

MS20

April 24th, 2011, 06:09 AM

50,000 is not possible in the near future. This would mean that only the teams with the largest stadiums in the country would be in the first division, something which is very unlikely (look e. g. at Fortuna Düsseldorf or Leipzig). There are quite a few teams with smaller stadiums which are too good to play in the second division.

This year, Gladbach will probably be relegated, having a stadium of 50,000. Maybe Frankfurt or Stuttgart will also be relegated, both having very large stadiums as well.

An average of 50,000 would only be possible after huge investments in most stadiums of the clubs in both the first and second division to guarantee a theoretical capacity large enough for it. And that won't happen in the near future, probably not at all.

Not necessarily. If Bundesliga CURRENTLY played at full capacity, they would be averaging 46,641. Thats a meager 3,500 off 50k average.

Now, let's add Mainz' new capacity from next year to that:

Average: 47,374.... now its 2,500 off.

Now for the sake of the argument lets imagine St Pauli and Freiburg went down, and Augsburg and Hertha went up (can't happen because of Freiburg, but play along). Lets also assume that Hertha averaged 60,000 next year (capacity 75,000).

Average: 49,500. And that still doesn't include the likes of Dusseldorf, Lepizig, 1860...

Well, you get my point. Huge investments in most stadiums? I've made virtually no changes to any capacities that aren't already there to be filled up and I got it to 500 off.

Rev Stickleback

April 24th, 2011, 04:40 PM

I think that was kind of his point. Although it's possible in theory, it would take a strange set of circumstances (such as all the best supposted sides being in the top flight) for it to happen.

And you'd need every game to sell out, which isn't the case currently.

Other than that you'd be requiring an average expansion of several thousand per club to achieve 50,000.

MS20

April 24th, 2011, 05:58 PM

thun

April 24th, 2011, 07:06 PM

@ Rev Stickleback: My point exactly. It might be possible theoretically, but it won't happen in the near future. It would require a constellation which is just way too imporbable.

1860 almost went bankrupt and wants to play in a smaller stadium on the long run. In Leipzig, they would need to form a Spielvereinigung (a fusion of the three clubs), something which won't happen at all. RB Leipzig won't gain so much support that they would sell out the Zentralstadion in the forseeable future. And Fortuna Düsseldorf won't make it to the first division anytime soon, too.

Rev Stickleback

April 24th, 2011, 10:46 PM

And yet I've made the point that it requires only 2 different sides than are currently in the Bundesliga (and both Hertha and Augsburg are almost certainly getting promoted). Hardly the stuff of fantasy.... and no, it wouldn't require all the best supported sides, which was another point I made. And no again, you wouldn't require an average expansion of several thousand at all, which is yet another point I made.

Hertha don't draw 60,000 though. Maybe next year things will be different, but their hightest average in recent history has been 52,000, and 45,000 is more typical.

Any rise in crowds from them would be offset by probably losing Borussia Mönchengladbach though, and maybe one of Eintracht Frankfurt or Köln too.

An average expansion of several thousand doesn't need to be across the board, but it would take significant expansion of several grounds. Adding 10000 to a capacity, and selling out, only nudges the average up by 500.

Stuttgart and Werder Bremen should draw better next year, when their rebuilds are complete.

The only valid point you have is that it would need a sell out every game, something which I preempted and was the whole pretext for my original question (after that guy posted a link that had all Bundesliga games selling out for week 30).

But thanks for your input.
That's a very big point though. Every league would improve its average by a few thousand if all the games sold out.

In most places there's probably a higher chance of a sold-out stadium being expanded that a team not selling out starting to do so.

Overall, if any football league is going to break 50,000 then it'll be Germany. England is stagnant now, and even if it wasn't, there really aren't that many teams who could the pull 50,000+ crowds, let alone average that number.

the Ludovico center

April 26th, 2011, 03:26 AM

mrcabman

April 26th, 2011, 04:58 AM

Can somebody give me a LIST of Germany's (ex)Bundesliga football clubs that are now (anno 2011) still playing and will continue playing in a stadium with an athletic track around the pitch?

I already know two of them: FC Nuremburg and Herta B

I also already know that Vfb Stuttgart and W.Bremen are converting theirs into football-only so that doesn't count.

These former Bundesliga clubs are still playing in a stadium with an athletic track: Preussen Muenster, Fortuna Cologne, SSV Ulm, Tennis Borussia Berlin, SV Darmstadt, FC Homburg, Rot-Weiss Oberhausen, 1. FC Saarbruecken, SG Wattenscheid, Eintracht Braunschweig, Karlsruher SC

the Ludovico center

April 26th, 2011, 10:30 AM

^ Thanks mate!

btw I've only known the existence of Herta & Union, never heard of Tennis Borussia Berlin (funny that a football club is has "tennis" in it's name)

imbee

May 5th, 2011, 05:34 PM

good progress in offenbach

http://i53.tinypic.com/f2urc.jpg
http://www.offenbach.de

Fenerbahce Sk

May 6th, 2011, 06:22 PM

Stadion Essen Any update?

kanye

May 6th, 2011, 06:44 PM

Stadion Essen Any update?
http://www.stadion-essen.de/

Jim856796

May 6th, 2011, 06:44 PM

The Rudi-Sedlmayer-Halle has not been used since 2003 when it closed for unknown reasons.

thun

May 6th, 2011, 11:23 PM

Apparently, the city administration and the FC Bayern Munich are thinking to renovate it and use it again for Bayerns basket ball division. However, due to costs for renovation (which the club would have to pay) rising, no decision was taken so far.

renco

May 24th, 2011, 09:41 AM

Where can I find attendances numbers for lower leagues (oberligas 5.,6. tier of german football leagues)?

imbee

July 11th, 2011, 04:21 PM

update

stadion offenbach

http://i55.tinypic.com/dw8d3s.jpg
http://www.offenbach.de

stadion essen

http://i52.tinypic.com/nwmz3p.jpg
http://www.stadion-essen.de

Alemanniafan

July 14th, 2011, 03:43 PM

Eintracht Braunschweig are modernizing/ expanding their Eintracht-stadion.
But it will remain a multipurpose stadium with athletics track.
Interestingly clubs Fans and locals got themselves organized and sucesfully retained local politicians in a referendum from building a far more costly modern soccer specific arena.

The plans are mainly to modernize the mainstand, add vip boxes and training, press facilities. build a cubic extra building with a fanshop, officespace kindergarden and restaurant. To close gaps in the stadium and extend the roof over the complete stands. As well as creating a modern plaza in front od the mainstand.

The costs of the project are planned to be € 14.5 million.
I suppose that's the cost the city covers and doesn't include the cubic building the club fully finances itself.

The stadium capacity will be slightly over 25.000 and supposed to be finished by summer 2013. The club Eintracht Braunschweig currently advanced into the second Bundesliga from the 3rd league. Another tennant is a local american football team the, Braunschweig Lions. And it currently is the only modern category A athletics stadium in the state of Niedersachsen which is suitable for hosting international athletics competitions.

Here is a PDF with the architects plans:
http://www.eintracht-stadion.com/fileadmin/downloads/stadion/Pressetexte/Kurz_Pr%C3%A4sentation.pdf

And here the stadium homepage with some more pictures and stadium info in German:
http://www.eintracht-stadion.com/index.php?id=259

bigbossman

July 14th, 2011, 08:37 PM

Alemanniafan

July 15th, 2011, 02:46 AM

why did they not want a proper football stadium? Seems stupid to me...

In the end I can also only guess, because it's just what someone from Braunschweig told me, that they really didn't want a soccer specific stadium there.

But fact is, that the city finances and modernizes the cities stadium and that the club just invests a minor portion into the whole project.
A real soccer specific stadium would have cost between 30 and 65 mio€ they argued.
And with the examples of Dresden and Aachen and other clubs in mind they probably figured such an amount certainly could hardly be financed by the club without major financial support from the city.

Eintracht Braunschweig played in the third league last season and just advanced into the second league, so they also don't have a reasonable perspective ro play in the first Bundesliga anytime soon.

A small and cheap solution with the city covering most of the costs seems reasonable for the club and probably also for the city, because a modernisation is definetely necessary and anything else should certainly cost the city and the cub far more. And both aren't exactly the wealthiest with plenty of money to spend or waste, it seems very reasonable. And probably the maximum of financial support the club could expect from the city anyways, even if they wanted to build a far more expensive soccer only stadium.

But this guy (an Eintracht Braunschweig fan) mostly just talked about tradition and stuff like that, mostly arguments which I personally can't really share. But if that's what the clubs fans want, mostly a preservation of the status quo, with several additional upgrades and modernisations and everyone there is happy with it, why not?

It all makes sense and seems very reasonable or a smaller club. Far better than trying to build a fancy and overky ambitious soccerstadium and then soon after go bankrupt due to the lack of spectators - or have the taxpayers pay it all.

This project seems to give the club a basis for economical competitiveness.
A multipurpose stadium with VIP boxes and everything else that's needed, for relatively low costs. Seems like a pretty clever and good move for a second or third league club to me.

Gloin

July 17th, 2011, 12:11 AM

http://www.isportconnect.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7328:borussia-dortmund-stadium-to-utilise-solar-power&catid=23:stadia--venues-arena-infrastructure&Itemid=32

Borussia Dortmund Stadium to Utilise Solar Power
Thursday, 30 June 2011 11:08

Borussia Dortmund have become the latest German soccer club to agree a partnership with a solar energy company.
Q-Cells, one of the world's largest manufacturers of solar energy products, are to install photo-voltaic panels to the roof of the Bundesliga champions' 80,720 capacity home Signal Iduna Park as part of a five-year deal worth a reported US$12.96m.
This follows similar deals between rivals Bayern Munich and Chinese firm Yingli Solar, and between Chaori Solar and FC Schalke 04. Reports suggest that the upgrade will make Signal Iduna Park energy independent and capable of producing electricity for the surrounding area.
Elsewhere in German soccer, BMW have extended their sponsorship of second-tier club Eintracht Frankfurt until the end of the 2012/13 season. The deal is likely to be worth a six-figure sum and entitles BMW to sector exclusivity as well as a strong presence on TV-visible advertising hoardings at the team's home Commerzbank Arena.

T3amgeist

July 22nd, 2011, 03:21 AM

Bayern Munich Basketball will play in the renovated Rudi-Sedlmayer-Halle, now named Audi Dome.
http://www.tz-online.de/bilder/2011/07/21/1331229/1204331524-sedl.9.jpg

adeaide

August 11th, 2011, 06:39 AM

http://img.******************/images/Sportstaetten/Fussballstadien/Coface-Arena-a25101984.jpg

http://www.info-stades.fr/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/arena5_gross_cabb4eea5d.jpg

if you want to see more stadia pictures , Please visit below URL.

http://cafe.daum.net/stade/Germany_future (http://cafe.daum.net/stade/5SJw/23)

http://cafe.daum.net/stade/Germany (http://cafe.daum.net/stade/5BHs/29)

http://www.embassyflag.com/flag/germany.gif

Twister2010

August 22nd, 2011, 12:28 PM

New tribune for the Millerntor:uh:

Wave tribune

http://blog.uebersteiger.de/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/104_UES_Cover.jpg

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/6183/67360709.jpg

Twister2010

August 22nd, 2011, 11:11 PM

http://www.fcstpauli.com/pics/medien//big_image_1314034840481.jpeg

http://www.fcstpauli.com/pics/medien//big_image_1314034815796.jpeg

http://www.fcstpauli.com/pics/medien//big_image_1314034757910.jpeg

http://www.mopo.de/image/view/2011/7/22/-/9564874/highRes/6885457/-/maxh/480/maxw/480/-/mopo_Gegengerade3_2.jpg.jpg

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/7577/stpauliw.jpg

The technical data: Up to 14000 spectators find on to 11000 standing and 3000 seats hideout. „The wave “is to the playing field 136 meters long (to the holy spirit field 120 m), 27 meters highly, 32 meters low and goes over four ranks, whereby again back toward playing field graduates itself upper ranks. Behind the seat range of the Unterrangs withdrawn kiosk ranges for AFM, fan space/shop or the like are intended.

„The doers “: The engineer's office for structural design OSD under the direction of Professor Harald Kloft and the team of architects of Hamburg creative laboratories „Interpol + “, the 2008 based was developed and generally only client-independent projects. Responsible person architect are Timothy Pape (Interpol+) and Lutz duke (workshop 2).

The idea: Evenly no PR-Gag or megalomania (the grandstand e.g. is. 19 meters lower than the Munich alliance arena), as of critics subordinates, but a rudimentary construction without Schnick Schnack from the heart of a football fan see the responsible persons in their project, which is to transport the myth Gegengerade into a recent time. „The bribery at the basic form of the wave is the simple, elementary form, those the basic needs of the football fans after large proximity to the playing field, perfect view and common influence on the crews and the play takes up “, thus Professor Harald Kloft of OSD of engineers. „In the reason the draft is at the same time new and unusual, in addition, astonishing simply and in its clarity basicfunctionally developed. “The technical feasibility of the draft is from the beginning ensured „“.

http://de.babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mopo.de%2Fsport%2Ffc-st--pauli%2Fmillerntor--st--pauli-plant-die-perfekte-welle%2F-%2F5067040%2F9565360%2F-%2F&lp=de_en&btnTrUrl=%C3%9Cbersetzen

Alemanniafan

August 23rd, 2011, 12:06 AM

New tribune for the Millerntor:uh:

Wave tribune

That's just supposed to be leaked Information on one of two versions of possible proposals that are to be discussed behind cliosed doors within the club.

Rumors in the press say that one of the two versions is a classic one, just like the other new stands. And the other is supposed to be this wave stand
which If I remember correctly would end up being about 4,5 mio€ more expensive than the original plan.

I doubt it's a realistic proposal with a big chance of ever being built.
I guess it's just kind of an advertisement hoax the club and architects use to generate some press and a better image.

The club isn't exactly rich and therefore I seriously doubt they could ever afford anything more expensive than a classical and basic solution for the new opposite stand.

The general concept behind this wave stand isn't even exactly a completely new idea either. It has allready previously been discussed in Dublin to hang tiers underneath the roof for a stadium expansion, due to the lack of space.

It also seems to have some unsolved safety issues. Just immagine people on the upper tiers throwing with half filled beermugs for example.

The pictures do indeed look kinda neat though.

npmrsi

August 23rd, 2011, 12:34 AM

That's just supposed to be leaked Information on one of two versions of possible proposals that are to be discussed behind cliosed doors within the club.

Actually, there has been an official press confererence today, where this wave stand was presented together with an alternative which would adapt to the already constructed stands.

The possibilities will be discussed and a decision will probably be made in late October.

You can read more on the official FC St. Pauli website (german):
http://www.fcstpauli.com/magazin/artikel.php?artikel=9566&type=2&menuid=57&topmenu=112

Deamond14

October 15th, 2011, 12:30 PM

The President's Club Soccer (1.FCN) speaks of a new stadium for the club:

http://www.abendzeitung-nuernberg.de/default.aspx?ID=12396&showNews=1037161

The Easy Credit Stadion despite its renovation for the 2006 World Cup is water everywhere and fences collapsed. Not cool. The VIP seats are too many (about 1800) and the NCF is pitiful in relation to the club as Hoffenheim. So it is time to think about a new stadium for 2020.

Not really information in the article, except that it will not a common stadium with Furth (city on the outskirts of Nuremberg is the second division) and not located somewhere in the fields. At the moment no info on the location, capacity (50,000 in Nuremberg even in second division was full every weekends, so I think that will be the same size) or the shape of the future stadium.

Wait and see.

adeaide

November 17th, 2011, 08:03 AM

http://www.luftbildblogger.de/wp-content/uploads/aktuelle-Luftbilder-Weserstadion1.jpg

http://www.luftbildblogger.de/wp-content/uploads/Luftbilder-Weserstadion-Mai-2011.jpg

http://www.luftbildblogger.de/wp-content/uploads/Luftaufnahme-Weserstadion-aktuell.jpg

Max BGF

November 20th, 2011, 07:48 AM

I am positively surprised. Bremen made the optimum out of it. Hot roof!

Nuremberg won´t get a new stadium the next years, unless the club itself finances it.

trmather

November 20th, 2011, 05:28 PM

Surely if Nuremberg can't look after the current stadium then they don't deserve a new one?

imbee

December 3rd, 2011, 12:47 PM

Chemnitzer FC to get new 15.000 stadium

http://www.chemnitzerfc.de/typo3temp/pics/31b1e2624a.jpg
http://www.chemnitzerfc.de

http://www.chemnitzerfc.de/fileadmin/images/news/2011/grundriss.JPG
http://www.chemnitzerfc.de

japanese001

December 4th, 2011, 11:49 AM

German stadium has been refined.

Matze20111984

December 5th, 2011, 12:56 AM

This is the Audi-Dome in Munich. The former name of the arena was Rudy-Sedlmayer-Halle, which hosted the basketball games during the summer olympic games 1972.

From this year on, the arena will host the games of the BEKO-BBL basketball team FC Bayern München Basketball. Prior to this season, the arena was modernized for about 4-5 million € to fit new standards of security.

Here are some pictures of the arena today:

http://www.abload.de/img/img_0096dbwxe.jpg

http://www.abload.de/img/img_0095gywyw.jpg

http://www.abload.de/img/img_00978s3ln.jpg

http://www.abload.de/img/img_01117gvtq.jpg

Here is a short video of the start of a game:

1BMs8G_Sf2c

MarqueeMoon

January 14th, 2012, 02:26 PM

It turned out kinda cute, given the old UFO building at Westpark, of which I thought it was mainly inept to deliver anything. Enough for the team now.
Hopefully in the remote future there will be done a lot more...

Quintana

January 15th, 2012, 02:50 PM

Alemanniafan

January 15th, 2012, 05:56 PM

Can't imagine this ever getting build. Those top tiers are simply too dangerous, especially when used as standing area's.
It definetely won't be built. Not very surprisingly, the club decided to build the traditional version which looks like this:

http://www.fcstpauli.com/pics/medien//big_image_1321879848756.jpeg

http://www.fcstpauli.com/pics/medien//big_image_1321879838703.jpeg
(pictures from www.fcstpauli.com)

This decision was made in november 2011 and the very first minor preliminary preparationworks even allready started a few days ago, on 3rd of january this year. Right after the end of the season in may this year the major constructionworks will begin.

An interesting aspect about this stand is the limited space it is being built on and thus the difficulties they faced with providing propper emergency evacuation routes etc.
Unlike the second rendered picture from the outside suggests, there is no space behind the stand available for fans to gather on.
That space is a public fairground which will be in use during several of the matchdays, so fans will generally be entering and exiting this stand only from entrances in the corners of the stadium, not from the backside of the stand, as the rendering seems to suggest. And that does lead to some difficulties with the capacities of the emergency evacuation routes, because the stadium (especially this new stand) can't be evacuated onto an allready occupied fairground which itself could as well be filled up with masses of people during matchtimes.