THE BOLDER, BIGGER APPLE

NY POST

By IKIMULISA LIVINGSTON

October 8, 2003 -- A glimpse of New York's future - visions that include spectacular new skyscrapers, a retractable-roof football stadium and whole new neighborhoods - was unveiled yesterday at a new gallery in Greenwich Village.

The Center for Architecture showcases models and drawings - many commissioned by the City Planning Department - that would transform neighborhoods in all five boroughs.

The most spectacular is the Hudson Yards project, which covers the area from 28th to 43rd streets between Eighth Avenue and the Hudson River.

The area, which now consists of parking lots, low-rise buildings and rail yards, would become a bustling commercial and residential community with its centerpiece a stunning new stadium for the football Jets.

This stadium - which would boast a retractable roof and energy-generating windmills - could be connected to the Jacob Javits Convention Center.

In the off-season it could be used to expand the exhibit space there, enticing bigger trade shows that now cannot be accommodated in the city, said Rick Bell, the executive director of the American Institute of Architects' New York chapter.

The stadium would be built on ground currently used as a parking lot for commuter buses.

"This is prime waterfront off one of the most beautiful rivers in the country in one of the most vibrant cities in the world," he said.

The area around the stadium would become a park.

The stadium could also be a venue for the Olympics, if the games come here in 2012.

Bell said a proposed Olympic village in Long Island City, Queens, would create another community on the waterfront for New Yorkers.

The plan is to take 17 acres along the East River and build 4,400 apartments, which would be available to New Yorkers after the games end.

Other areas ready for new development include Downtown Brooklyn, where planners envision new office and residential buildings. There are also plans for Brooklyn's Greenpoint-Williamsburg area, Queens Plaza, West Harlem and West Chelsea.

Some of the visions are about to become reality. These include the new, modern steel and glass Brooklyn Supreme and Family Courthouse now under construction at 330 Jay St.

In addition to the big projects, there are also smaller ones displayed that will make an eye-popping difference.

The new look for the Roosevelt Avenue Terminal in Jackson Heights - which includes a remodeled subway station and new elevated station for the No. 7 line - as well as a new bus depot, is a sleek design of glass and steel.

A Harlem residential complex at East 117th Street adds three huge apartment buildings.

The Sea View senior housing project on Brielle Avenue on Staten Island shows clusters of modern apartment buildings amid green patches of grass and trees.

The Bronx Museum of the Arts expansion project shows a futuristic building with a slate-gray facade that loosely resembles the folds of an accordion.

There's even a new look for manhole covers - a beautiful blue heron with flowing feathers engraved on metal.

Amanda Burden, the chairwoman of the New York City Planning Commission, said she's "energized" and "thrilled" about the opening of the gallery - and the opportunity to show the public what the future may hold.

"What we're doing - rather than being reactive to an individual developer - is trying to create a blueprint for the future," Burden said.

"Mayor Bloomberg gave us the mandate to create a spectacular landscape for the future," she said. The dramatic, bold projects would likely be money-makers for the city, she added.

"We're just very excited to be able to show the public," Burden said.

She's open to feedback.

"We're in dialogue with the community to fine tune the plans," Burden said.

The public is invited to view the new looks for New York City through Nov. 26 at the Center for Architecture, 536 La Guardia Place.

http://www.nypost.com/photos/web10080322.jpg

SKYLINE OF THE FUTURE: Planners and architects unveiled this projected view of Midtown in the year 2025.

More....

NY POST

MASTERS' TOUCH ON WEST SIDE

By STEVE CUOZZO

October 8, 2003 -- Everyone who cares about what New York will be like in 10 or 20 years should check out "Skyline Street," the exhibition of City Planning Department proposals now on view at the new Center for Architecture on LaGuardia Place.

Colorfully displayed are elaborate schemes for redeveloping downtown Brooklyn, the Sunnyside Yards in Queens, and West Chelsea and West Harlem in Manhattan.

But the must-see is the giant wood-and-glass, 3-D model of "Hudson Yards" - the vast area bounded by West 28th and West 43rd streets and Eighth Avenue and the Hudson River.

Mayor Bloomberg wants to transform these underutilized, low-rise blocks west of Midtown from a neglected outskirts into a dynamic new business and residential district.

The city commissioned a master plan from a design team led by architects Cooper Robertson & Partners, and the model shows what their notion of Hudson Yards might look like.

The neighborhood's warehouses, parking lots, greasy-spoon diners and a few old tenements would give way to a processions of giant office towers along 10th and 11th avenues and apartment buildings and parks between Ninth and 10th avenues.

A sports stadium would stand between 11th and 12th avenues and 30th and 34th streets, on top of what's now an exposed railroad yard.

An expanded Javits Center would stretch all the way from 34th to 41st Street.

Under a plan already being pursued by the MTA, the No. 7 subway line would be extended from Times Square to 11th Avenue and 34th Street.

No one knows which parts of the plan are feasible, or how long they'd take to build. But merely the expectation that they'll happen has already raised property values: an office building at 10th Avenue and 31st Street, which sold for $222 million four years ago, is being resold for $320 million.

Bloomberg's vision for Hudson Yards is ambitious enough to recall the era of one-time master builder Robert Moses, who wielded power no individual or agency comes close to possessing today.

Of course, unlike Moses, the mayor can't bulldoze neighborhoods or push through projects on a whim. But he can create the climate - and the legal framework - for real estate developers to risk trying something new.

His main tool is rezoning, which determines the size and density of new buildings and the uses to which they may be put.

Bloomberg hopes to rezone the Hudson Yards area by the end of next year. He's likely in for a fight, because the plan leaves plenty to argue about.

For one thing, encouraging high-rise towers in what has always been a low-rise district will not thrill the city's litigious anti-development forces.

And a new commercial district might not be the best thing for downtown as it struggles to bounce back from 9/11.

But Bloomberg's proposal is as serious and as detailed as any mayor ever attempted - and worth every citizen's respect and attention.


Here's the website:

http://www.aiany.org/architectureweek/

NY POST

WEST SIDE GLORY

By FRANKIE EDOZIEN

October 24, 2003 -- These new designs show what city officials hope will by the next chic, round-the-clock neighborhood in the Big Apple - the far West Side.

In a video presentation - slides of which are shown here - Deputy Mayor Dan Doctoroff touted City Hall's vision for the neighborhood, with a $1.5 billion football stadium and convention center as its anchor.

Doctoroff, speaking to the Building Trades Employers Association board of governors, also described several public parks, office space and housing for the development area, which runs roughly from 24th to 42nd streets between Eighth Avenue and the Hudson.

City officials are looking at Park Avenue as their inspiration by proposing that two large platforms be built over the rail yards on the far West Side, as was done in Midtown a century ago to build Grand Central Terminal.

"On the eastern platform will be a grand, six-acre public square, the heart of a pulsating, 24-hour neighborhood," Doctoroff said.

The deputy mayor said the neighborhood will have a "stunning park, about the size of Bryant Park," that will be surrounded by shops, a transit center, hotel, office buildings, a new museum and performing-arts center.

The western platform will be a "revolutionary new building" - the New York Sports and Convention Center - an environmentally friendly building with waterfalls powered by solar energy.

It will have a corridor that connects to the Javits Convention Center. The New York Jets, who now play on the other side of the Hudson at Giants Stadium in the Meadowlands, will pay for the new stadium, with construction hopefully starting in the spring of 2005.

A dramatic mid-block boulevard will be constructed between 10th and 11th avenues up to 39th Street. It will be filled with sidewalk cafes, large water fountains and more promenades.

Here's a rendering showing how it could look:

http://www.pbase.com/image/22602387/original.jpg

Is it only a vision, or is it already decided that it will be built?

Originally posted by AtlanticaC5

Is it only a vision, or is it already decided that it will be built?

It's a vision, though the plans for the stadium were unveiled but the development of the rest is just a visionary concept in the rendering.

Wow, looks freaking http://forum.fok.nl/i/s/vork.gif

I really hope it is constructed. It will prove powerful in the rebuilding of the economy and will look great!

:eek2:

Build it!!

Here are pictures from an exhibit by NYguy.

http://www.pbase.com/image/22989733/large.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/22989834/large.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/image/22989956/large.jpg

AWESOME :eek: :eek2: :eek: :eek2: :eek: :eek2: :eek: :eek2: :eek: :eek2:

the highest tower is taller than ESB....over 1300 feet....


i dont think its a vision i think its a proposal....because if it was a vision it wouldnt be put on display....

Obviously this isnt all to be built at once so does anyone knwo the time spread or time period in which all this is to be developed.

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/01/18/realestate/cov.650.jpg
Amanda M. Burden, city planning commissioner, with model of far West Side after proposed redevelopment.

Its amazing, this project has more skyscrapers than most cities have all together.

Just this skyline would look impressive in most other cities.

^^^^ Exactly what I meant, just couldnt word it correctly. ^^^^

NY Observer

City Hall Seeking Brand-New Avenue Between 10th, 11th

by Blair Golson

Lost in the brouhaha over the Jets stadium and the Bloomberg administration’s plan for a revitalized West Side is a broad swath of privately owned buildings in the 30’s and 40’s that the city wants to demolish to make room for a broad, park-like boulevard.

Deputy Mayor Daniel Doctoroff’s ambitious plan calls for the city to invoke eminent domain to clear away the middle of every block from 33rd Street to 42nd Street, between 10th and 11th avenues, in order to create this long, landscaped, car-free Champs Elysées. Mr. Doctoroff, the city’s deputy mayor for economic development, hopes to see tall office buildings and residential towers sprout up along both sides of the park.

"Creating this mid-block boulevard, we believe, will create a signature address for the commercial and residential development that will occur on either side of it," Mr. Doctoroff said, "as well as a spectacular park in a neighborhood that basically has none."

And were it not for one pesky building, he would be looking at the easiest land grab since the city took Robert Moses’ bulldozers away from him.

Federal Express, the international shipping company, is gearing up for a fight over its World Service Center, which stands in the path of the wrecking ball.

The shipping company doesn’t own the building in which it is housed, a 65,000-square-foot facility at 528 West 34th Street. However, over the last 15 years, FedEx has put $54 million worth of renovations into the facility, and sources in Community Board 4, which represents that district, said that FedEx has told them it would cost upwards of $140 million to relocate.

A representative of FedEx’s landlord, a family that has owned the building for three generations, wrote in a June 16 letter to the city that seizing the site would put in jeopardy 1,000 full- and part-time jobs.

"In reviewing the impact of the Hudson Yards rezoning and as laudable as open space uses are, one must be concerned that this City continues to provide employment to all economic strata," wrote Richard Bass, a senior real-estate analyst at the law firm Herrick, Feinstein. "Sacrificing jobs for open space at this particular site is not the right decision."

Mr. Doctoroff conceded that the FedEx facility was the "largest single piece" that his office will have to deal with when it comes time to begin formally negotiating with landlords.

Path Of Least Resistance

The city hasn’t publicly disclosed exactly which—or how many—buildings are standing in its way. (Nor will Mr. Doctoroff release an estimate of how much he expects all the condemnations to cost. Suffice it to say, however, that the city stands to pay out hundreds of millions of dollars to landowners who lose their properties in the ambitious move.)

But an examination of the proposed route for the boulevard, compared with a tax map of the neighborhood, yields a fairly detailed picture of who and what will be affected by the park.

In all, the city appears to have carved a route of least resistance. Much of the park wends through aging and unused railyards, in addition to small, squat buildings with little aesthetic appeal. There are, of course, exceptions.

About 60 small-sized businesses stand in the way of the wrecking ball, but about 40 of those have short-term leases in one office building; and many of them don’t expect to be around in 2007, the earliest that construction could realistically start.

http://www.pbase.com/image/23023170/large.jpg

(Pic by NYguy)

NY Times

City Set to Create West Side Development Unit

February 9, 2004

Deputy Mayor Daniel L. Doctoroff and the city's Office of Management and Budget are expected to announce this week the creation of a Hudson Yards Development Corporation to oversee the redevelopment of the far West Side of Manhattan, according to state and city officials.

The city will also announce the hiring of three investment banks as financial advisers and underwriters for the West Side project, the officials said. Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg's administration has drawn up plans for the transformation of the West Side over the next 30 years, with a stadium, hotels and new zoning to promote the development of 28 million square feet of office space and about 15,000 apartments.

But according to the officials, the announcement, which could come as early as Wednesday, will deal with only one of three elements of the city's financing plan for the West Side: financing for a $2.5 billion plan to extend the No. 7 subway line west along 42nd Street and south on 11th Avenue to 34th Street; building a deck over the eastern rail yard between 10th and 11th Avenues; and condemnation of land in the area and the creation of public parks.

That part of the project would be financed through the sale of development rights and zoning bonuses, which allow a developer to build a structure larger than normally permitted, as well as payments in lieu of taxes from developers who commit to the West Side.

NY Times

City Unveils Titanic Plan to Transform Far West Side

By CHARLES V. BAGLI
Published: June 22, 2004

The Bloomberg administration's plan to redevelop the far West Side of Manhattan would transform a neighborhood of brick warehouses, tenements and parking lots into a vibrant district of skyscrapers, 12,600 new apartments and 20 acres of parkland, according to a 6,000-page environmental impact study released by the city yesterday.

The proposal, known as the Hudson Yards plan, would rezone a 40-block area west of Seventh Avenue between 30th and 42nd Streets and include a one-mile extension of the No. 7 subway line, an expansion of the Jacob K. Javits Convention Center and a 75,000-seat football stadium over the adjacent railyards.

Although the study acknowledged that traffic congestion would increase at more than 30 intersections in the district, it indicated that most problems could be mitigated. The city also rejected 18 alternative plans, including some proposed by community groups, saying they were impractical or generated fewer jobs and revenues for the city.

The benefits of creating a new district and allowing the city to grow outweigh any potential problems, the report concludes. It was prepared by the city's Department of City Planning and the Metropolitan Transportation Authority.

"Hudson Yards is the single biggest investment we can make in our city's future, besides the redevelopment of Lower Manhattan," said Deputy Mayor Daniel L. Doctoroff. "It provides room in Midtown for the largest and most productive business district in the nation to grow, while creating the conditions for significant residential development."

The release of the environmental study triggers the beginning of a seven-month public review of what promises to be one of the most contested rezonings in city history. Despite the opposition of neighborhood groups and the local community board, the city government hopes to win formal approval in January.

Most West Side groups were still wading through the dense report yesterday and not yet ready to comment.

The $1.4 billion expansion of the convention center has fairly broad support from Community Board 4 and the hotel and tourism industry, unlike the plan for the football stadium, which would serve as home for the New York Jets.

There was an effort in the State Legislature yesterday afternoon to hammer together a revised bill that would allow the center to add 340,000 square feet of exhibit space. Gov. George E. Pataki's original proposal sparked widespread criticism from supporters and critics alike, in part because some of the language appeared to allow for the financing of the stadium.

"We'll try to find a way to pass a Javits bill," said Assemblyman Richard L. Brodsky, "but not if they keep trying to jam the stadium into it. We can fix the other problems."

The governor issued a revised proposal on Friday, which removed some of the most disputed elements of the bill. But it came in for criticism yesterday during an Assembly hearing in Manhattan. Assemblyman Brodsky asked city and state officials if they would accept language stating that the bill would in no way authorize the financing, construction or management of the stadium.

Mr. Doctoroff said the bill was solely concerned with the expansion of the Javits, but he favored some kind of joint operating agreement, because the stadium would double as an exhibit hall. He said that he would oppose efforts to prohibit construction of the stadium, which he views as a critical component of the West Side redevelopment plan.

"They should do what's necessary to get the Javits expansion moving forward," said Louis J. Coletti of the Building Trades Employers Council, a construction company group. "I think it's time to move this project forward."

The $1.4 billion stadium, which requires a $600 million public investment, is the single most contentious item in the city's plans for the West Side. Those plans also include the creation of a tree-lined boulevard between 10th and 11th Avenues, stretching from 42nd Street to a newly created public square next to the stadium at 34th Street. There would also be a connection to the High Line, a former elevated railroad line that would be turned into a linear park.

The rezoning would provide developers and corporations with sites for new skyscrapers and apartment houses and allow for the construction of 28 million square feet of office space, hotels, stores and thousands of apartments over the next 40 years.

The impact study examined 18 alternatives, including moving the stadium to Willets Point, Queens, next to Shea Stadium, a proposal supported by some groups in Queens and Manhattan. The study said it would cost as much as the Manhattan project, but would not attract any convention business.

I love the look of all those buildings especially the tallest, build, build, build!

nooo!!! no one should build something taller than the esb in or around midtown manhattan!!! that tall building reminds me too much of libeskind/child's folly, and im not letting that ruin the future skyline of manhattan.

good thing this is only a vision, cuz it's really gonna interfere with the view of the southern midtown skyline (particularly southern times square) from the hudson and the intrepid.

i don't get why are they even attempting to build a development that huge, i mean, there's not really any big demands for offices in nyc, and if they build them all, the wouldn't even have enough tenants to fill the tallest tower (unless companies choose to leave their spaces in midtown/downtown). and why are most of those buildings boxes? it seems that new yorkers are starting to loose their creativity.

Sadly for 7, the skyline must grow. The ESB cannot dominate midtown forever. And about the project, if I had to bet on it's construction, it has more of a yes, than no.

nooo!!! no one should build something taller than the esb in or around midtown manhattan!!! that tall building reminds me too much of libeskind/child's folly, and im not letting that ruin the future skyline of manhattan.

good thing this is only a vision, cuz it's really gonna interfere with the view of the southern midtown skyline (particularly southern times square) from the hudson and the intrepid.

Well if you find it ugly, look at architecture the way I do: the bad buildings not only make us appreciate the best ones, but they make everything around them look better.

nice idea.
But does anyone of you know about that tower underconstruction in the West Side, it's right next to the BMW building and in front of a chimney.
It's pretty tall, has a nice blue glass.

nice idea.
But does anyone of you know about that tower underconstruction in the West Side, it's right next to the BMW building and in front of a chimney.
It's pretty tall, has a nice blue glass.

That's the Helena:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=102039

dont mean to sound stupid but where exactly is this going to be located.is it in between midtown and lower manhattan someone please tell me

On the Westside of Manhattan, hence the name :D
Yes, it will be sort of in between Mid + Down town, but its more of an extension of Midtown than anything else. I think another name for this project is Hudson yards, as its going to be built on top of the rail yards there. It's not too far from MSG, Penn Station, and is right on the Javits center, that's probably the best way to say it. Is that enough or do you need street names? I'd be happy to tell ya. Cheers :cheers:

That's the Helena:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=102039
Thanks!
I always forget to take my camera when I go biking on the Hudson Park, and most of all, I forget to go see the base and it's name.
as for the Jets stadium, it's so funny how they started an ad war, you see it on TV, with both sides saying that either it's too costly and it's from the city's $$$, and the other one says that the anti-Jet stadium group is led by the MSG and cablevision, who don't want competition! :lol:
Then there are the huge billboards all over with a kid writing on a blackboard, "How many teachers could the city hire with your $600 millions?"!
I'm all for it, and I think that the investment is worth doing, even though I don't the olympics to come.
In any case, for the stadium, it's going to be over MTA rail yards, which takes over 4 blocks, and I always go there when I visit B&H. I might take some pics next time, it's right next to the Javits center.

http://voot.pair.com/hoofaway/notherethere.jpg
http://voot.pair.com/hoofaway/notherethere3.jpg

Amazing, good news is that this article states the office towers would rise up to 70 and 80 stories! Bad news is that the Community Board 4 opposes the plan, but luckily in the end, it's not for them to decide.

NY POST

FLAG ON THE PLAY

By TOM TOPOUSIS

August 25, 2004 --

The massive redevelopment plan for Manhattan's far West Side — including a stadium for both the Jets and the 2012 Olympics — failed to clear its first hurdle when the local Community Board gave the project a thumbs-down.

Community Board 4 came out against the $3 billion Hudson Yards project that would transform the industrial neighborhood with a subway extension, Olympic Boulevard and 28 million square feet of high-rise office towers.

"Not only is this one of the largest rezoning plans undertaken by the city, it includes a number of unprecedented and potentially dangerous elements," said the board's chairman, Walter Mankoff.

Board members singled out the stadium, the inadequate affordable housing and plans for office towers rising 70 and 80 stories along a new boulevard to be carved between 10th and 11th avenues as major problems.

The board did, however, agree that the area between 42nd and 28th streets, west of 10th Avenue, should be rezoned — even though its members disagreed with the projects the city wants.

City Planning Commissioner Amanda Burden welcomed the community board's decision to at least back rezoning.

"The proposed plan will be refined and improved as a result of the public land use review process," Burden said.

While the community board's recommendation is not binding — final approval power rests with the City Council and the Planning Commission — opponents of the stadium said the community opposition imperils the city's Olympic bid.

"I don't think the IOC wants to put the Olympics at a venue where the stadium is likely to be tied up in litigation in the first place," said Assemblyman Richard Gottfried, a Democrat who represents the West Side.

The International Olympic Committee is expected to decide on a host city for the 2012 games next July. New York is among five finalists, including Paris, London, Moscow and Madrid vying for the games.

The Hudson Yards project is a separate project from the Olympics — but the Olympic bid relies on its infrastructure.

Jay Kriegel, head of the city's bid committee, insisted that the plan to bring the Olympics here remains on track. "There is tremendous support across the city for bringing the Olympics to New York," he said.

The Hudson Yards plan next goes before Manhattan Borough President Virginia Fields, with public hearings slated for late September. The City Council and the Planning Commission are expected to act by November.

new boulevard between 10th and 11th?
That should be good, especially if they do it like Park Avenue, but better.

is this approved or very likely to be approved?

Oh man I really really hope this gets built, that would be an awesome extension of Midtown. Finally NY comes up again with such massive projects, since HK and many other cities got ahead on skyscraper building activity over the last years. And it's true, ESB can't dominate midtown forever

Sounds amazing, but I would like to see some renderings before I pass final judgement on these skyscrapers, especially the one that's supposed to be taller than the ESB.

Of course, 2007 is quite some time away.

are we ever going to get any renderings?!!!!

Does anyone think that the City's insistance of the 80 story building is based on Bloomberg wanting to build a better 21st century icon than the Freedom Tower and the crapstract NWTC? Maybe even he is sick of what the state has done/is going to do to Manhattan. So he's building an alternative.

Just a thought.

BTW: crapstract = crappy abstract

Big, great news.

Globe St.

Planning Commission Approves Hudson Yards Rezoning

http://globest.com/newspics/nyc_hudsonyards.jpg

By Barbara Jarvie
Last updated: November 22, 2004 01:57pm

NEW YORK CITY-In a 10 to 1 vote, the New York City Planning Commission approved the rezoning of the Hudson Yards. Commission chair Amanda Burden called the effort “the most ambitious undertaking since the grid of 1811” which laid out all of the city’s streets. “This is a visionary blueprint.”

The 40-year redevelopment involves the 59-block area from West 30th Street to West 43rd Street, and Seventh and Eighth avenues to 12th Avenue. It is bordered by Clinton to the north, Chelsea to the south, the Hudson River to the west and the Garment Center and Midtown to the east.

The approved plan includes a two-million-sf reduction in commercial development bringing it to a total of 26 million sf. It also includes an increase in residential development and an expanded affordable housing program to produce or preserve approximately 2,600 affordable housing units with a total of 13,600 new units.

Commissioner Karen Phillips was the sole dissenter. While she is in favor of an updated Javits Center, the expansion of the No. 7 subway line and the city’s effort to host the Olympic Games in 2012, she is not in favor of the New York City Sports and Convention Center, a possible home base for the New York Jets football team. “It’s an invasive location for a stadium...for 12 men to chase a pigskin.”

After Phillips cast her vote, a group affordable housing advocates displayed signs protesting the stadium and the rezoning effort. Earlier this month, the Departments of City Planning and Housing Preservation & Development unveiled a revision designed to provide increased affordable housing in this West Side development area. It puts in place a larger incentive for developers to create affordable housing by lowering “as-of-right” density and in exchange requiring a greater share of affordable units. It also extended the Inclusionary Zoning Program to include the neighboring Hell's Kitchen community.

“When combined with the New York Sports and Convention Center, an expanded Javits Center and the extended No. 7 subway line, the plan for the Hudson Yards offers one of the most compelling visions of urban renewal ever put forward in New York City,” the Hudson Yards Coalition offers. The coalition is an economic development advocacy initiative that is comprised of members from New York's business, labor, civic, academic and cultural communities.

Earlier this year, the city created the Hudson Yards Infrastructure Corp., a nonprofit group that will help in the financing of the massive West Side project. City estimates peg the total costs of the infrastructure to be financed between 2005 and 2012 to be $2.8 billion and a continued build-out is expected to follow through 2040.

what do they mean by 40 year plan? the whole thing will be finished 40 years later?

^ Don't fret. They say the tallest towers (1000+ ft) will be built by 2012.


When should the proposals for mega towers begin? :) I can't wait!

I like this plan, and i like the idea of a supertall 5 1/2 blocks from the ESB. I don't find the stadium any more imposing than the Garden is. ( I wonder if the "glass" buildings are general massing shapes or the actual shapes?. if actual, we could be looking at a larger version of One Bryant. I hope this is not the case. but overall this is a wonderful plan and great news for NYC. i know this plan will take many years, and i'm pretty sure i'll be dead in 2040, but it would be cool to see this begin by 2008.

I like this plan, and i like the idea of a supertall 5 1/2 blocks from the ESB. I don't find the stadium any more imposing than the Garden is. ( I wonder if the "glass" buildings are general massing shapes or the actual shapes?. if actual, we could be looking at a larger version of One Bryant. I hope this is not the case. but overall this is a wonderful plan and great news for NYC. i know this plan will take many years, and i'm pretty sure i'll be dead in 2040, but it would be cool to see this begin by 2008.

Nah, those are just massing models/shapes. Each tower's design, shape, size, height is undetermined but an article posted earlier in this thread said the office towers would range from 70-80 stories so we're looking at most likely at least a couple of 1000 footers here.

Article speaking about alternatives offered, where the residential and commercial towers would be built, but not the stadium...

NY Times

Build Platform, Group Says, but Please Hold the Stadium

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/12/02/nyregion/02stadium_lg.jpg
A proposal from the Regional Plan Association calls for commercial and residential development along a corridor through the West Side.

By CHARLES V. BAGLI
Published: December 2, 2004

For more than two years, Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg has insisted that only a football stadium for the Jets could cover the vast railyards on Manhattan's West Side that have long been a barrier to the neighborhood's development.

But yesterday the Regional Plan Association, an influential private group, issued a report stating that a residential and commercial development erected on top of platforms over the railyards would generate far more revenue for the city and the state than a stadium, and would promote development on nearby land.

Robert D. Yaro, president of the association, said the group's alternative plan would also provide a physical and visual link between the city and the Hudson River, in contrast to the mayor's plan for a football stadium and an expanded Javits Convention Center that would create a 12-block wall along the riverfront.

"From Day 1, the city and the Jets have said that the choice on the West Side is between a stadium and a hole in the ground," said Mr. Yaro, whose organization, financed by civic groups and corporations, opposes building a stadium over the railyards.

He said: "We've outlined what we think are very feasible alternatives, involving residential development on the western yard and a mix of residential and commercial on the eastern yard. You can create something more attractive and something that will serve as a catalyst for the redevelopment of the West Side in a way that the stadium will not."

The group's alternative comes only weeks before the state is expected to approve the proposed $1.4 billion stadium project for the Jets. The stadium is a key element of the Bloomberg administration's ambitious plan to redevelop the West Side, transforming a 59-block area of parking lots, brick warehouses and factories into a major business district, and it is also the centerpiece of the city's bid for the 2012 Olympics.

But the stadium, which would be built on a platform over the railyard between 11th and 12th Avenues, from 30th to 34th Street, has met with strong opposition from local residents, some Broadway theater owners and elected officials from the West Side. These opponents have said they were worried about traffic congestion and feared that the stadium would discourage development. It has yet to be embraced by any major civic group, and both sides anticipate lawsuits.

Though the Regional Plan Association's alternative proposal has little likelihood of being carried out, it drew quick reactions in the superheated debate over the future of the West Side.

Stadium opponents like the Hell's Kitchen/Hudson Yards Alliance, State Senator Thomas K. Duane and Assemblyman Richard N. Gottfried embraced it. The Hudson Yards Coalition, a pro-stadium group, sharply attacked the plan, saying the stadium "will more than pay for itself - it will generate a profit for New York, and jobs for New Yorkers."

Jennifer Falk, a City Hall spokeswoman, said the city would lose millions of dollars in convention and trade show business without a stadium, and would lose any hope of attracting the Olympics.

The city and the state plan to invest $600 million for a platform over the railyards and a retractable roof for the stadium, while the Jets plan to put up $800 million to cover the rest of the project.

The regional plan group says the city should instead simply build the platforms and then sell development sites to builders. Commercial and residential development would generate net revenues and taxes of $510 million a year, compared with only $74 million from the stadium, the association's report said.

Separately, the Steven L. Newman Real Estate Institute at Baruch College has also issued an alternative that addresses the city's waterfront, but shies away from taking a position on the stadium.

That proposal calls for building one of the largest convention centers in the world over the railyards, stretching east from 12th Avenue to Ninth Avenue, between 30th and 34th Streets. The institute contends that a stadium and an arena could be built atop the convention center.

Like the planning group's proposal, the institute recommends the creation of a commercial corridor extending west along 34th Street from Ninth Avenue to the Hudson River. The existing Jacob K. Javits Convention Center could then be demolished to make way for apartment towers.

In creating an east-west orientation, the Baruch proposal opens the waterfront to the city.

The Regional Plan Association's proposal calls for building thousands of apartments on a platform west of 11th Avenue and a mix of residential and office towers on a platform east of 11th Avenue.

I must admit, that boulevard looks nice leading towards the river, reminds me somehow of Paris, but those buildings along the boulevard look pretty low-rise for Manhattan. I did like that stadium too, ah well as long as we get some 1000 footers I won't be complaining. NY should get the olympics though

I must admit, that boulevard looks nice leading towards the river, reminds me somehow of Paris, but those buildings along the boulevard look pretty low-rise for Manhattan. I did like that stadium too, ah well as long as we get some 1000 footers I won't be complaining. NY should get the olympics though

I'd like to point out that this alternative isn't official or anything like that. There's still a possibility the stadium will get built. This is just an article talking about a group who's offering an alternative plan without the stadium.

I like the residential/commercial development plan more than the Jets stadium.
I don't think the giant box looks very good on the west side and imagine what midtown traffic would be like on a game night with Javitz, Madison Square, Broadway, etc within a half mile of the stadium?

I too think that this alternative plan is enticing. That boulevard is beautiful and it does kind of open up to the river in a much better way. I think Queens would be a better place for a stadium. Heck, if they want to have the skyscrapers as a backdrop for a stadium, whatabout Queens West for a location? It would be smack dab in the center of the "Olympic X."

What if the locations of the Olympic Village and the Jets stadium were switched? What if instead of having a Westside stadium we have residential towers and a bunch of talls and instead of the Queens West Olympic Village, where skyscrapers would look so out of place, we have a stadium?

BQE can be stretched out towards the stadium site for access, the subways can be extended to the area, LIRR can be extended to the stadium, the Westside can be developed and can retain its "neighborhoody feel" that the Nimbys find important, a stadium can be built with the backdrop of Manhattan (that you don't get if you build say inland near Shea Stadium) and you can still have an Olympics that adheres to the Olympic X scheme. I think this would be a classy address for the Jets. Imagine a stadium like the Pittsburgh Pirates have that opens up to a stunning view of the City?

Of course, you'll have the Queens and Long Island City nimbys to contend with, but everywhere you go you'll have nimbys.

Whatabout this? Why hasn't anyone suggested this to the powers that be?

The stadium plan was not the best. I also didnt' like it because it really basically destroys the character of that part of the city. More and more Manhattan is losing all these nice quaint areas. It's not good.


This plan looks impressive though. If the right type of architecture is used on the buildings lining the boulevard, it will probably be one of the nicer areas in all of Manhattan.

I really think that Bloomberg should look at this plan. As for the stadium, move it out by Shea. Maybe not as sexy, but def. worth it.

i like the stadium idea better.. i really want a stadium to be built in manhattan with those big lights and all

New Design for New York's Javits Center Includes 22-Acre Green Roof

By Sam Lubell

In late June New York’s Jacob K. Javits Convention Center unveiled plans for a greatly expanded space, designed by Saint Louis-based HOK.

The new structure, expanding north and west from the current space, designed by I.M. Pei, will almost double its size. Currently Javits is one of the smallest of any major U.S. convention spaces, at 760,000 square-feet. The new center will boast revamped interiors and exteriors and will measure 1.34 million square-feet.

A notable feature of the new design is a 22-acre green roof, which will be the largest in the world, the firm says. Covered with seedum, the roof will be made up of folded planes, inspired by the geography of the Hudson River Valley, while the layout, describes HOK principal Kenneth Drucker, AIA, is inspired by Central Park’s Great Lawn. “Once we realized we would be surrounded by several 50-story buildings (part of the planned Hudson Yards project) we thought we would could really relate to the park.”

Because of upkeep difficulties, only about five acres will be accesible to the public, in the form of hardscape, grassy areas and an esplanade. Construction on the project is set to begin in 2005. Legislation to authorize spending for the Javits expansion is currently pending in the New York State Assembly.

http://img103.exs.cx/img103/5310/0409pwjavitsphase1eastelevatio.jpg

It's been approved. :)

^ I don't like it. The whole "green" concept doesn't worke well with the Javits Center.

http://graphics7.nytimes.com/images/2004/12/02/nyregion/02stadium_lg.jpg
The idea is nice, but those towers around better be massing. Those Architectronica (sp?) project clone towers are too ugly for new construction, especially on such a site, especially since we're not in the sixties anymore. Modernist "utopias" are over, guys! Helloo! Build something better there! Open the land for individual construction (just zone it up a bit) is what I would do.

It seems like the leading people for both plans have their ulterior motives to making sure the other doesn't get built. I suppose the residential and commercial center would be better economically speaking, but those buildings do look pretty low. And I liked the stadium idea not only for the business aspect, but we seriously need to bring the NY teams back into the big apple.

we seriously need to bring the NY teams back into the big apple.

The Giants are very close to getting a deal to build a new stadium in NJ

The best part about the approved plan is the tower/hotel...

When will those 80 story office towers be approved, designed and/or rise?

Not 80 stories, or office, but:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
A Curbed exclusive by way of a special correspondent: the much loved and landmarked Little Church Around the Corner (aka the Church of Transfiguration) on East 29th Street (above, looking east) just off Fifth Avenue has apparently struck a deal with the devil... er, with developers. The church's auxiliary structure, a modern addition to the east, will be demolished and combined with other properties to the north on 30th Street to create a thru-block parcel for a 50-story residential tower. Writes our correspondent,

How do we know this? We live on the block and for several weeks have noticed surveyors taking measurements. Then we noticed architect-types with interesting eyewear loitering on the block, snapping digital photos. When approached they were all hush hush, refusing to answer questions and walking back into the church. Then last week we saw two church workers on the block and asked them what was up. One remained silent but the other was good enough to give us the gory details. Demolition will begin in about a year. The church will take the first two or three floors of the tower for their programs. We lose our morning sunlight. And Manhattan loses a little piece of its soul.
What happens now? Expect the preservationists to come out in force against the demolition. The Little Church, for its part, was made famous in 1870 with the exclamation, "God Bless the Little Church Around the Corner!" The chants may well be different this time.

www.curbed.com


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyways, W29th street is included in the new Westside zoning right? This is the 3rd HUGE assed project I've heard for this area in the past 2 days, the other being another 60 story res. on W42nd, and a 2.5 msf (!) mixed-use tower on W31st street.

Should I make a new thread for this?

Very good news...

NY Newsday

City Council, mayor agree on scaled back West Side rezoning plan

By TIMOTHY WILLIAMS
Associated Press Writer

January 10, 2005, 5:02 PM EST

NEW YORK -- The Bloomberg administration and City Council have reached a compromise on the non-stadium parts of the West Side redevelopment project, slashing $1 billion in planned borrowing while vowing to create 3,300 new affordable apartments.

The agreement, which sailed through two council committees Monday, paves the way for 13,000 total housing units and 24.2 million square feet of commercial development on rail yards east of 11th Avenue, between 30th and 33rd streets.

The $3 billion plan also includes funding for the extension of the No. 7 subway line, which both sides see as a catalyst for development.

Deputy Mayor Dan Doctoroff, said he was "overjoyed" at the deal, which he sees as integral to the highly controversial $1.3 billion Jets stadium and Javits Center expansion proposal.

But Council Speaker Gifford Miller, who Monday came out in opposition to the stadium, said the pact guaranteed construction of the subway, office space and housing even if the stadium never gets built.

"This agreement will ensure that the rest of this building will occur regardless of whether the stadium moves forward," said Miller, who plans to run for mayor.

"I think the stadium now stands on its own as opposed to the view that it should be lumped in with the other development," said City Comptroller William Thompson, whose questions about the original financing plan prompted some of the changes.

The council and comptroller have no say over the stadium, which would be built by a state-authorized development corporation.

Land use committee chair Melinda Katz (D-Forest Hills) and Christine Quinn, a Democrat whose district includes the rail yards, said they had also secured guarantees that none of the development's money would pay for any of the stadium's infrastructure.

Doctoroff argued that a new stadium and convention center would "dramatically accelerate" office and residential construction by luring developers.

The deal includes: Cutting borrowing from $4 million to $3 million by paying debt payments up front. The move will cost taxpayers an average of $100 million a year for the next decade -- but save the city $1.3 billion over the life of the project, according to council estimates.

Increasing the percentage of new apartments classified as "affordable" from 19 percent to 28 percent. That would increase the overall number of low- to moderate-income units from 2,600 to 3,300.

Reducing total square footage of office development from 26 million to 24.2 million, a moved aimed at reducing density on the 11th Ave. corridor.

Not everyone was happy about the plan. John Fisher, head of coalition of groups opposing the stadium, called the council's actions "a sell-out."

Daily News

W. Side gold rush is on



Pedro Pineda, the young man behind the counter at McDonald's, hands me my soft-drink cup.

I fill it with Sprite, then step out into the evening air at W. 34th St. and Tenth Ave., searching for the gold in our city's future.

I am searching on this desolate corner of Manhattan's far West Side because Mayor Bloomberg has told me the gold is right here and on the blocks around it, streets now littered with ugly parking lots, rundown office buildings and the massive MTA railroad yards.

New York's gold, of course, is always hidden as much in the air as in the ground. So I gaze up over the two-story McDonald's building and imagine for a moment a huge office tower that soars 70 stories. The mayor and his economic development czar, Daniel Doctoroff, are planning such a tower for precisely this corner.

The tower is just one of dozens of commercial skyscrapers City Hall envisions in this $3.5billion Robert Moses-like development plan called Hudson Yards, which also includes an extension of the subway's No. 7 line to W. 34th St.

Well, Bloomberg, Doctoroff and the city's giant real estate developers got their wish yesterday, when City Council Speaker Gifford Miller caved in to the Hudson Yards plan.

To be fair, Gifford, who dreams of being mayor himself, did not surrender completely.

He did manage a few positive changes to the original plan in exchange for approving the rezoning the project needs.

He increased the total number of affordable housing units to more than 3,500, for example, and he assured that those units would remain permanently affordable. Still, nearly three-quarters of the new housing will be luxury units far beyond the income of most New Yorkers.

Miller also forced Bloomberg and Doctoroff to agree to substantial public oversight of the project by residents and the Council, and he secured funding for additional city services for the surrounding neighborhood.

He even got City Hall to ditch a Byzantine temporary-borrowing scheme for the project that would have driven up its costs by more than $1.3 billion.

But to get Doctoroff to drop that, Miller committed nearly $1 billion from the city's own operating budget over the next 10 years.

That money will pay interest on the project's bonds until the revenue from the new office buildings can cover the debt.

The cost to the city's operating budget this year will only be $6 million, but it escalates next year to $46 million, then $139 million by 2008, and even more after that.

That's a huge sum for a city still searching to pay for its normal public services.

"It's outrageous," said community resident John Fisher of the Clinton Special District Coalition, one of the few community groups still opposed to the project. "They're making a decision to fund developers over schools, firehouses and other services." But most community groups and local leaders disagreed.

Walter Mankoff, chairman of Manhattan Community Board4, called the final agreement a "major victory" for the community.

Mankoff conceded, however, that his group lost its fight to reduce the size of office-building construction.

"The massive scale of the development will flood our neighborhood with cars and air pollution, and will cast enormous shadows on the few open spaces in the area," he said.

"I feel we definitely made this better," said City Councilwoman Christine Quinn, who represents the district. "We made it cheaper for taxpayers, and the affordable housing part is great - unprecedented, really."

Quinn and the other council members will not admit publicly that the city's real estate lobby, together with the construction labor unions, exerted enormous pressure on them to approve this project.

The developers, the unions, and the mayor all swear there's gold in Hudson Yards. Here's hoping they're right. If they're not, city taxpayers will end up paying the price.

"The massive scale of the development will flood our neighborhood with cars and air pollution...

Cars!? AIR POLLUTION!? Such outrageous new things in a place like New York!

hmm.. i think i'll have about 4 acres :)
actually.. we should ask all forumers for donation and buy a lot for ssc :)

a huge office tower that soars 70 stories. The mayor and his economic development czar, Daniel Doctoroff, are planning such a tower for precisely this corner.

70 stories? Office? Is this for real?!?!?!?!
Or is this one of those "generalizations" like saying that Westside is gonna have 80 story scrapers but they don't give out ANY specs.
But "precisely this corner" sorta gives the thought that this is specific no?

This would indeed be awesome if it were true! Guess we will have to wait a few years and find out...

Looks impressive.

70 stories? Office? Is this for real?!?!?!?!
No doubt about that. Have you seen the pictures of the models they made to reprisent the westside developement? It featured at least one tower that looked to be about the ESB's size. Other articles indicate the possibility of 80+ floor office buildings!

70 stories? Office? Is this for real?!?!?!?!
Or is this one of those "generalizations" like saying that Westside is gonna have 80 story scrapers but they don't give out ANY specs.
But "precisely this corner" sorta gives the thought that this is specific no?

This would indeed be awesome if it were true! Guess we will have to wait a few years and find out...

Nah Vlad, it's the author of the piece envisioning a sight such as this, not any specific proposal. Of course, if the plan goes through, we're looking at office towers of this size.

Sorry guys, no more 70-80 floor towers...I know the title looks good but read the rest of the article, you may just punch your computer screen with rage, there will be no supertalls on the westside site

January 13, 2005

BLOCKS

The Sky Is No Longer the Limit on Far West Side Buildings

By DAVID W. DUNLAP

"No limit."

These were perhaps the most striking words in the rezoning plan for the Far West Side of Manhattan, also known as Hudson Yards. They referred to the density limit that the City Planning Commission, until this week, intended to place on the commercial development of two blocks at the heart of Hudson Yards. None.

Developers would have been free to build towers on these blocks as large as they could. There would have been no specified maximum under the density control called the floor-area ratio, or F.A.R., which has regulated building sizes throughout the city since 1961. (In zoning districts with a ratio of 18, for instance, the owner of a 10,000-square-foot lot may build a structure with 18 times the floor area, or 180,000 square feet.)

Visions of office towers soaring 80 stories and higher were conjured by Community Board 4 last year in its critique of the plan, which described the overall density as "unprecedented, undesirable and ultimately unnecessary for the city's future."

When Melinda Katz, the chairwoman of the City Council's Land Use Committee, learned of the no-limit provision at a hearing last month, she told planning officials, "I'm sure we'll be getting back to you on that."

In a telephone interview yesterday, Ms. Katz, a Queens Democrat, explained: "No. 1, I was concerned with precedent. No. 2, we were uncomfortable as a council with passing something that basically took the authority for creating a limit away from us."

To the administration's credit, she said, a floor-area ratio of 33 was quickly imposed on the two blocks after objections to the no-limit proposal were raised. That was one of several compromises made in the Hudson Yards plan before the committee approved it on Monday, 15 to 0, with 1 abstention. It goes to the full Council for a vote next Wednesday.

The blocks in question are bounded by 10th and 11th Avenues and 33rd and 35th Streets. They are known as the Four Corners because they would be bisected by a new north-south midblock boulevard, which would effectively create four large building sites. The southwest site would be directly over the new terminus of a planned extension of the No. 7 subway line.

"You have to have density to get vibrancy," said Amanda M. Burden, chairwoman of the Planning Commission and director of the City Planning Department. "We believe that deeply, deeply, deeply." At the same time, she said, planners do not expect construction of the office buildings to start until the expected completion of the No. 7 line in 2010.

The basic floor-area ratio on the Four Corners would be 10, but a developer could add 8 by making payments into a district improvement fund to help finance the boulevard, parkland and subway extension. The developer could add 15 more by purchasing development rights from the rail yard to the south. Because of a limit on the amount of transferable development rights from the rail yard, however, not all Four Corners sites could reach the maximum floor-area ratio, 33.

While that ratio far exceeds the current limit of 21.6 in the zoning rules, city planners note that other skyscrapers have been constructed at roughly that density or greater.

"It is not much different than the buildings that went up along Times Square," said Sandy Hornick, director of strategic planning at the planning department. Cautioning that density can be calculated in a variety of ways, Mr. Hornick put the floor-area ratio of 7 Times Square (Times Square Tower) at 42; 5 Times Square (Ernst & Young), 36; 4 Times Square (Condé Nast), 31; and 3 Times Square (Reuters), 25.

The point of removing density limits at the Four Corners, he said, was to allow developers flexibility in transferring development rights from the rail yard. "We didn't really think that people would build infinitely tall buildings," he said.

There are practical limits, as Carol Willis, the founding director of the Skyscraper Museum, noted in "Form Follows Finance" (Princeton Architectural Press). "At some point in the construction of every skyscraper," she wrote in 1995, "the law of diminishing returns sets in, and rents for the additional stories do not cover costs" - including extra foundations, equipment and space for elevator shafts. These days, there is another inhibition: tenants might feel like targets on very high floors.

MR. HORNICK said the cap of 33 F.A.R. still offered developers a "fair amount of flexibility," while addressing the Council's concerns.

Even with the compromises, however, Community Board 4 worries that the plan's transfer and bonus provisions resemble "zoning for sale," said Anthony M. Borelli, the district manager.

Although the floor-area ratio has been in force as a zoning control for only 44 years, it was championed as early as 1907 by members of the Municipal Art Society. The society's current president, Kent L. Barwick, applauded the Planning Commission "for working so hard to make common ground with the Council."

Thinking of one of his predecessors, Electus Litchfield, who might be described as the father of F.A.R., Mr. Barwick said, "The pioneers of zoning understood that there had to be limits."

Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company

I'm speechless. :(

Don't worry, it's WAY too early to get disappointed about anything concerning the westside. You do realize the construction will be going on for about 3 decades? Take all current articles with a grain of salt. Things change often.

i... kinda dont get the article. what is it saying?

That 80 story towers are not neccesary for the cities future.


Islander...They said the development would be finished in 40 years but many of the office buildings will go up within the next 10 or 20. this is some bad news indeed :(


I somehow knew than an 80 floor office tower was just a pipedream in this city.

(...)

Under new info, I belive they can actually still build 80 story buildings but have to buy more air rights, theres no official limit to anything yet I dont think.


Im keeping my fingers crossed BIG TIME.

^Or you could build it wicked skinny and not have big floorplates ie. 80 south street. :)

So I was just messing around on SSP when I stumbled across a 'proposed' hudson yards tower. This diagram shows that the building is nearly 1800ft!

http://www.skyscraperpage.com/diagrams/?

Does anyone have any information about this?

^^ok, the above link actually just leads you to the search area and not my results. Just type in Hudson Tower, and make sure to click "View drawings pending approval". And this will show you the diagram.

^^ok, the above link actually just leads you to the search area and not my results. Just type in Hudson Tower, and make sure to click "View drawings pending approval". And this will show you the diagram.
It say that it's a Vision not a proposal.

^^Under the status of the diagram I have it says proposed.

whatever the status may be, its nasty.

hmm.. i think i'll have about 4 acres :)
actually.. we should ask all forumers for donation and buy a lot for ssc :)
Yes! Actually it's a good idea. If all forumers give 50 dollars, you think we could already buy something??? :)

the last thing we need is another glass sculpture of a skyscraper in nyc...

Viadas is the drawer and editor, he has been known to exxagerate and make up things for NYC. There was never a WTB proposal on the westside, there will be some very high buildings built there in the future granted but we don't know anything yet.

70-80 story's, than has the tower more floors than the original design of the freedom tower!

about 17 months ago a far limit was set in this development. that far was 30 but new hope for supertalls came when sevral sites were announced at 100,000 sq ft. with a far of 30 that would total 3mil. there are about 5-10 sites that could ocupy a supertall. sites anyware between 50,000-100,000 could hold a supertall (counting spires of course). the convention center hotel is almost 250 meeters. I am fine with anything over 500ft. a skyscraper. :)

Where is this projekt exactly ?? can anyone show it on a aerial of Manhattan ??

about 17 months ago a far limit was set in this development. that far was 30 but new hope for supertalls came when sevral sites were announced at 100,000 sq ft. with a far of 30 that would total 3mil. there are about 5-10 sites that could ocupy a supertall. sites anyware between 50,000-100,000 could hold a supertall (counting spires of course). the convention center hotel is almost 250 meeters. I am fine with anything over 500ft. a skyscraper. :)

sounds good :)

some fancy new renderings...

What Might the Far West Side Look Like? See the Planners' First Sketches

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/20070507hymain.jpg

5/7/07
By: Alec Appelbaum
nymag.com (http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2007/05/what_might_the_far_west_side_l.html)

Mayor Bloomberg may not have gotten his Jets stadium on the Far West Side of Manhattan, but some sort of development over the MTA's Hudson Yards is on its way. The state-city Hudson Yards Development Corporation has set preliminary guidelines for land use and open space on the site, and by the end of the month, the MTA will start soliciting proposals from developers for the massive property. We got hold of sketches HYDC showed to neighborhood leaders this spring (they're all after the jump), depicting what the area might look like after its completion; they show a possible Logan's Run–ish skyline, key crossings with and without the High Line in place, and a flicker of the questions likely to dominate public debate. How many parking spaces? How many affordable apartments? How tall? What kind of parks? The general public gets its first say in what's promised to be a long review process at a joint community board–HYDC meeting Tuesday night. Study up.

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/8272/p1010030msgcj1.jpg

not really sure where this came from... anyone

that plan is impressive

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/8272/p1010030msgcj1.jpg

not really sure where this came from... anyone

WOW! AMAZING!!!!!! I am curious what kind of project is it?

Most impressive. Cannot wait for NYC to trumiph its fleeing glory once again.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/17/nyregion/17railyards.html?ref=nyregion
Biggest Building Site in Manhattan Up for Auction

By CHARLES V. BAGLI
Published: May 17, 2007

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/05/16/nyregion/17rail-600.jpg
Todd Heisler/The New York Times

The city plans to begin an auction next month for the rights to build office towers, apartments and parks over the Long Island Rail Road yards on the Far West Side.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/05/17/nyregion/17railyards-650.jpg
Todd Heisler/The New York Times

The High Line, a railway being turned into a park, is part of the debate over developing the Far West Side.

It is the largest building site left in Manhattan, 26 acres on the Far West Side, where the Bloomberg administration envisions the equivalent of five Empire State Buildings rising on $1 billion worth of concrete columns over bustling railyards.

And starting next month, some of the city’s biggest developers will have a chance to bid for the rights to make that grand — some say grandiose — plan real.

“The city hasn’t done anything like this before, certainly not in Midtown,” said Daniel L. Doctoroff, deputy mayor for economic development and rebuilding. “We want to create a 21st-century Rockefeller Center.”

Known as Hudson Yards, the project is central to one of Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg’s longstanding ambitions: to transform the heavily industrial Far West Side into the city’s third business district, after Wall Street and Midtown, with not just high-rise office and apartment towers, hotels and parks, but also an expanded Jacob K. Javits Convention Center nearby.

The challenges are daunting. Developers say it will probably cost $1 billion to build platforms over the yards for skyscrapers as tall as 70 stories, and the work must be done while Long Island Rail Road trains are running. Some residents want assurances that the development will include permanent housing for poor and working-class families. And a sharp debate is emerging over whether to tear down the northern end of the High Line, an unused railroad structure that is being converted to an elevated park south of 30th Street.

The plan, which is likely to take more than a decade to complete, calls for the construction of 12.4 million square feet of commercial, residential, recreational and cultural space over the railyards, which span 11th Avenue between 30th and 33rd Streets. It is Mr. Bloomberg’s second attempt at developing the yards: His first attempt, which involved building a $2.1 billion stadium for the Jets football team, crumbled in the face of opposition in the neighborhood and in Albany.

The city and the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, which owns the land, are working together to develop the railyards. The project must go through the city’s lengthy land-use review process, but unlike the plan for a football stadium, it will not require approvals in Albany.

The city and transit officials say they will begin an auction for development rights over the parcel next month, and they expect five of the city’s biggest developers to bid. They also plan to hire a contractor this summer to begin drilling work for the extension of the No. 7 subway line from Times Square to 11th Avenue and 34th Street.

“The Hudson Yards are one of the most expensive and complicated developments ever to be undertaken,” said the developer Douglas Durst.

Mr. Durst has formed a partnership with Vornado Realty Trust to bid for the property. Extell Development Company also expects to bid, as does Brookfield Properties, and Tishman Speyer Properties, which real estate executives say may have an alliance with Lehman Brothers as a tenant. Tishman Speyer declined to comment, but if such a collaboration exists, the company would immediately jump to the front of the race.

Debate over the plan has focused on two potentially conflicting demands: that the development provide public benefits, like subsidized housing, parks and other amenities, and that the Metropolitan Transportation Authority get the highest possible price for the land.

Developers insist that any requirements for affordable housing or parks will increase their costs by $100 million, reducing the price they can pay. Critics contend that the sale of public land should lead to community benefits, and that the cost of those benefits is a small price to pay for a rare commodity: land in Manhattan.

“It’s a vast undertaking, and it pitches these competing public goals against each other,” said Anna Levin, a member of Community Board 4. “I understand that the entire burden shouldn’t be placed on developers. But this is a public undertaking. There have to be public resources that can be brought to bear, otherwise this will become a gold coast that doesn’t serve the entire city.”

Although the Bloomberg administration failed to win legislative support to build the football stadium over the railyards in 2005, it did succeed in a more far-reaching goal: rezoning a wide swath of the West Side, including 45 blocks outside the railyards, for large-scale development. However, the portion of the railyards west of 11th Avenue still needs to be rezoned and to go through a public review process.

Last year, the Metropolitan Transportation Authority rebuffed the city’s offer to buy the development rights to the yards for $500 million, saying it was too little. The two sides then agreed to create a strategic development plan for the yards, which is now complete, and put them up for sale.

The winning bidder would be assured of state and city support — though not necessarily community backing — during the lengthy public review, which can be unpredictable for a developer. Last week, the city and state publicly unveiled the plan, which calls for up to 5.7 million square feet of residential and commercial development on the western portion of the yards.

Under the proposal, towers as high as 70 stories are pushed to the north and south sides of both the western and eastern yards. There is public space at the center of the eastern yard that would connect to a tree-lined boulevard that the city wants to build from 39th to 33rd Streets between 10th and 11th Avenues. The open space is designed to draw pedestrians across the western yard, to the waterfront.

One of the thorniest issues concerns the fate of the High Line, which some people want converted into a park all the way to its northern terminus inside the Hudson Yards area. The city already plans to turn the railway into a park from 30th Street south to Gansevoort Street, where the mere promise of an elevated park has helped spur a residential boomlet in west Chelsea.

But state and city officials have expressed concern that keeping the High Line inside Hudson Yards could impede the already difficult task of construction. At least one critic, Mr. Durst, said retaining the line would add $100 million to the cost of construction.

“Any additional complications will subtract from the value the M.T.A. receives, and leaving the High Line in place will have a substantial effect on that value,” Mr. Durst said.

But Friends of the High Line, an advocacy group, contends that retaining the rail structure will cost only about $800,000, with the benefits outweighing any problems.

“You don’t often have the opportunity to take a piece of the city’s industrial infrastructure and reuse it in an interesting way, to connect west Chelsea, Hudson Yards and the waterfront,” said Robert Hammond, a leader of the group. “It’ll be a great park that’ll serve the city as well as Central Park.”

At a community board meeting last week, an official with the transportation authority said for the first time that the authority supported retaining the High Line, although it also wanted to maximize revenues for rail operations. Privately, one official indicated that the authority did not want the High Line venture to cost it more than $25 million.

Elliot G. Sander, the executive director of the authority, said he was trying to work out the housing issue and had set aside land controlled by the authority outside the railyards for subsidized apartments. Officials say bidders will be asked to submit offers based on keeping or demolishing the High Line.

There are other snags in the Bloomberg administration’s plans for the Far West Side. The long-awaited expansion of the Javits Convention Center is stalled while the Spitzer administration continues its review of the $1.8 billion project, which has come under criticism from trade show producers. That, in turn, has held up plans to sell land across 11th Avenue from the Javits center, for a convention center hotel, as well as the block between the center and the western railyard.

But the administration is eager to show progress while the real estate market is hot. So officials say the request for bids on the railyards will be issued no later than early June.

“This is for the future of New York, so it’s not going to be done overnight,” said Stephen M. Ross of the Related Companies, one of the city’s most active developers. “I don’t think there’s ever been anything like this, on this scale.”

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/8272/p1010030msgcj1.jpg

not really sure where this came from... anyone

Before you freak out, this was a guy at SSP playing with photoshop and not an actual legitimate render

Yeah I could have guessed. That rendering appears to be a couple of spireless Freedom Towers at the west side

Aww that is very disappointing... :(

Developers are now submitting proposals for the West Side and the MTA will pick a winner, we are talking towers of and plans of massive scale.

NY POST

CITY TO DEVELOPERS: 'ROCK' THE W. SIDE

By BILL SANDERSON

July 14, 2007

Developers are being told to think big - a "Rockefeller Center for the 21st century" - if they want to build over the 26-acre West Side rail yards, city officials said yesterday as they announced plans to move the project forward.

Picking up the pieces of the doomed 2005 plan that included a stadium for the Jets on the site, the MTA formally offered for sale the air rights over the yards west of Penn Station now used to store Long Island Rail Road trains.

Developers have until Oct. 11 to come up with bids for the site, the biggest piece of undeveloped real estate in Manhattan. Officials hope to select the builder by early next year.

Nobody would say yesterday how much money the Metropolitan Transportation Authority could raise through the sale - but the property was appraised last year at $1.5 billion. Gov. Spitzer said he expected the sale would ease or erase a $1 billion deficit in the MTA's capital budget.

City and state officials have already been talking with developers about ideas for the site, which they hope will be on a massive scale.

Spitzer noted that the 12 million square feet of development the city and state want for the site would exceed the size of Rockefeller Center by 2 million square feet.

"Midwest Manhattan all the way to the river is going to be developed into a major commercial mecca that will rival Midtown and downtown," the governor said.

"We really are on the cusp of creating a Rockefeller Center for the 21st century," Deputy Mayor Dan Doctoroff said.

The MTA says developers should build a "green, inviting," open space on the site; a "cultural facility" described as a "flexible indoor/outdoor space that can accommodate a wide variety of activities" and retail stores on the streets the bound the project.

About 80 percent of the space on the 10th and 11th avenue portion side of the project will be commercial, Doctoroff said.

On the portion of the project bounded by 11th and 12th avenues, at least 20 percent of the new buildings has to be commercial and another 20 percent residential - though the exact proportions will be determined by "what the market tells us," Doctoroff said.

Zoning is already in place for the eastern half of the project, meaning that construction could begin as soon as the MTA picks a winning bidder. But it would take another six months or so for the zoning to be enacted on the western half.

But Spitzer, the MTA and Mayor Bloomberg seem to have lined up the political backing needed for a zoning change. City Council Speaker Christine Quinn and Manhattan Borough President Scott Stringer - who both have say in zoning matters - appeared with Spitzer at a press conference to unveil the plan yesterday.

"This will be one of the largest and most important development projects in the history of New York City," Spitzer said, calling the development "something this city and this region desperately needs."

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07142007/photos/news02.jpg

From another article:

Five developers are already preparing proposals for the site, which is the largest redevelopment project to hit Manhattan in a generation. As reported exclusively by The Real Deal in April, The Related Companies, Brookfield Properties, Vornado Realty Trust, Tishman Speyer and the Durst Organization have all been preparing proposals in advance of today's announcement.

The expansion plans for the Javits Convention Centre may have recently shrunk to a renovation. I think they should build a new convention centre outside of Manhattan and redevelop the site of the existing convention centre.