http://www.edwebproject.org/tunisia04/pics/tophet.close2.jpg



ANCESTRAL BLOOD
TESTING THE GENE POOL

Every day, long before dawn, the fishermen of Tyre, Lebanon, launch their boats as their ancestors have done as far back as anyone can remember. By about nine in the morning they return to port and relax over coffee and games of cards at a seaside cafe. That's where Spencer Wells, a National Geographic emerging explorer, and his colleague Pierre Zalloua, a geneticist at the American University of Beirut, approached them about taking part in a wide-ranging research project. The goal: to learn whether these fishermen are descended from the Phoenicians who left the first traces of their lives here in the Levant more than 5,000 years ago, and who later spread their culture westward by ship borne commerce. The scientists could find the answer in the inherited-genetic patterns of Y chromosomes if the fishermen agreed to donate samples of their blood.

The tests could confirm that men of Tyre-Christians and Muslims alike--are related to the ancient traders. Wells and Zalloua also took samples in other parts of the Phoenician world, where results may reveal the same lineage in areas of former colonies like Sardinia and Malta.



MEN OF THE SEA
A LOST HISTORY

The culture later known as Phoenician was flourishing as early as the third millennium B.C. in the Levant, a coastal region now divided primarily between Lebanon, Syria, and Israel. But it wasn't until around 1100 B.C., after a period of general disorder and social collapse throughout the region, that they emerged as a significant cultural and political force.

From the ninth to sixth centuries B.C. they dominated the Mediterranean Sea, establishing emporiums and colonies from Cyprus in the east to the Aegean Sea, Italy, North Africa, and Spain in the west. They grew rich trading precious metals from abroad and products such as wine, olive oil, and most notably the timber from the famous cedars of Lebanon, which forested the mountains that rise steeply from the coast of their homeland.



Acting as cultural middlemen, the Phoenicians disseminated ideas, myths, and knowledge from the powerful Assyrian and Babylonian worlds in what is now Syria and Iraq to their contacts in the Aegean. Those ideas helped spark a cultural revival in Greece, one which led to the Greeks' Golden Age and hence the birth of Western civilization. The Phoenicians imported so much papyrus from Egypt that the Greeks used their name for the first great Phoenician port, Byblos, to refer to the ancient paper. The name Bible, or "the book," also derives from Byblos.

Today, Spencer Wells says, "Phoenicians have become ghosts, a vanished civilization." Now he and Zalloua hope to use a different alphabet, the molecular letters of DNA, to exhume these ghosts.



The Y chromosome, uniquely, is passed from father to son with no input from the mother. Changes in its DNA are preserved generation after generation, so the male descendants of Phoenicians would inherit ancient patterns of mutations indefinitely.



Identifying Phoenician markers takes sophisticated comparisons of the DNA from thousands of men like those of Byblos. But Byblos is just one stop on Wells's and Zalloua's sampling campaign--a campaign that will take many months to show results.


A steep hill known as the Byrsa rises along e Tunisian coast of North Africa, overlooking the residences of modern Carthage, the most affluent suburb of Tunis, the capital. In the distance peninsulas and promontories stretch into the blue sea. On a sunny October morning Wells and Zalloua ascend the Byrsa and peer down on the excavated streets of one of the earliest colonies, and certainly the grandest, established by the Phoenicians.

Founded by the city of Tyre as early as 814 B.C., Carthage emerged as a formidable power itself about 300 years later, after a 13-year siege by the Babylonians depleted Tyre's resources. Eventually Carthage dominated the western Mediterranean and gradually developed its own culture, known as Punic to the Romans. As Rome emerged as a central Mediterranean power in the third century B.C., it clashed with Carthage in a series of confrontations known as the Punic Wars. The famous Carthaginian general Hannibal nearly conquered Rome, but in 202 B.C. he was defeated near Carthage. In 146 B.C. Rome burned and destroyed this last major Phoenician city.

Wells and Zalloua have come to Carthage to seek help from Tunisian colleagues. They need local DNA to find what's left of Phoenician chromosomes here. That's a complex job: A lot of Middle Eastern people, as well as Africans and Romans, have left their genes in Carthage over the centuries. Calculating when a particular set of chromosomes emerged is difficult, but Wells and Zalloua say they can date mutations relatively accurately.


Most Middle Eastern men belong to M89 and M172. M89s date back to a major migration out of Africa around 45,000 years ago; M172s date back to the dawn of agriculture about 12,000 years ago. Phoenician markers should be carried on either of these types. Most men living in the area surrounding Carthage before the Phoenicians arrived should probably have carried variations of the M96, which is the aboriginal type in North and West Africa. So if Wells and Zalloua find in Tunisia a significant number of M 172s and M89s, the Middle Eastern Y chromosomes, that could suggest a link to the Phoenicians.

"If we can find markers here that could only have originated in the Middle East during the Phoenician age, we can assume they were brought by the Phoenicians," says Wells.


When Carthage fell, the people were enslaved and they disappeared, explains Tunisian archaeologist Nejib Ben Lazreg. "This doesn't mean the culture disappeared. It had become so rooted in North Africa that it was centuries before people abandoned the language. By A.D. 193 Rome had an emperor from North Africa, Septimius Severus, and he spoke with a strong Phoenician accent. That was the revenge of Carthage."

The Phoenicians also persisted genetically. Early this year, as Wells and Zalloua complete their DNA sampling, they shift their search from collecting samples to analyzing the thousands of plastic vials of DNA they have assembled at Zalloua's lab at the American University of Beirut.

"All this is concentrated DNA," says Zalloua, holding a box of vials from Tunisia. He lifts out a vial labeled DN44. "We'll put a little of this on a glass plate with appropriate enzymes to isolate a specific region of the Y-chromosome DNA we want to analyze. We have lots of data to digest."

He prints a chart of their Lebanese data and runs his finger down a list of analyzed samples. Most, but not all, samples indicate Middle Eastern or African origins.

"Ah, there's a Spencer--a European," says Zalloua, pointing to an M173. "That man might be descended from a crusader."


The data from Tunisia also help redefine the legacy of the Phoenicians.

"They left only a small impact in North Africa," Wells says. "No more than 20 percent of the men we sampled had Y chromosomes that originated in the Middle East. Most carried the aboriginal North African M96 pattern."

That influx from the Middle East could have come in three waves: the arrival of farming in North Africa 10,000 years ago, the Phoenicians, and the Islamic expansion 1,300 years ago. Microsatellites will let the researchers estimate when people bearing those markers arrived. Even if they all turned out to be of Phoenician age, the impact on local people was relatively small.

^^ Anyway i always thought Tunisians were related to us ;)

^^ Anyway i always thought Tunisians were related to us ;)


We are , intellectually speaking at least :lol:

We don't have the same gene but we are definatly closer to leanon mentality than Algeria or Lybia for instance :cheers:

Tunisia is my second favorite arab country after Lebanon :)
And somehow, je m'entens mieux avec les tunisiens qu'avec les marocains ou les algériens...

Tunisians are probably mostly descendants of people who settled there during the neolithic period, like in most places. With some influences coming from migrations. :)

Tunisians are probably mostly descendants of people who settled there during the neolithic period, like in most places. With some influences coming from migrations. :)

thats right but we surely are the descendant of the oldest melting pot !!

phoenicians romans vandals, byzantinians, arabs , Spanish , turks , italian maltese Andalousian , Sub-saharians, Spanish, greeks and French !

there is also a difefrence between the costal population and the inhabitants in the land the migration took place in the big costal cities ...

^^ yes but this melting pot you are talking about took place everywhere in the mediterranean, and in a lot of other regions as well. Though we are still mostly descendants of prehistoric settlers.

^^ Hence the growing convention of characterising 'Mediteranean' or 'North African' and 'South European' as distinct ethnic groups.

^^ yes but this melting pot you are talking about took place everywhere in the mediterranean, and in a lot of other regions as well. Though we are still mostly descendants of prehistoric settlers.

Right but the scale of this melting pot may vary .

For instance areas such as Sicily or Tunisia whad more invasion therfore more settlers from all the mediteranean countries than Portugal . Greece or the nothern Area of Spain , France Italy ^^

^^ Hence the growing convention of characterising 'Mediteranean' or 'North African' and 'South European' as distinct ethnic groups.

Not at all in the contrary this article shows that yes we share the same roots berber but alos we share the same genes than other ethnic groups ...

National Blood Transfusion Centre, Tunis, Tunisia.

South Tunisian HLA gene profile has studied for the first time. HLA-A, -B, -DRB1 and -DQB1 allele frequencies of Ghannouch have been compared with those of neighboring populations, other Mediterraneans and Sub-Saharans. Their relatedness has been tested by genetic distances, Neighbor-Joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses. Our HLA data show that both southern from Ghannouch and northern Tunisians are of a Berber substratum in spite of the successive incursions (particularly, the 7th-8th century A.D. Arab invasion) occurred in Tunisia. It is also the case of other North Africans and Iberians. This present study confirms the relatedness of Greeks to Sub-Saharan populations. This suggests that there was an admixture between the Greeks and Sub-Saharans probably during Pharaonic period or after natural catastrophes (dryness) occurred in Sahara.



Aim: APOE gene and eight Alu insertion polymorphisms were investigated in Tunisians and compared with data from neighbour populations in order to gain new insights into the genetic position of Tunisia in the Mediterranean region.

Subjects and methods: A total of 121 individuals from the North and Centre-South regions were sampled.

Results: No significant genetic differences were found between Tunisians and North Africans when samples representative of wide areas were considered. APOE gene variation seemed slightly less powerful than the Alu polymorphisms in detecting North-South Mediterranean differences.

Conclusion: North African populations show a substantial degree of genetic homogeneity, which may reflect the similarity of their origins, mainly when samples from large geographical areas are compared. The relative genetic homogeneity of the whole Mediterranean region probably reflects a common origin and/or remarkable levels of gene flow. However, this gene flow has not yet erased the differentiation between the two Mediterranean shores, as revealed by Alu insertion polymorphisms


* Sourcehttp://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a787635450~db=all~jumptype=rss

^^ That's actually exactly what I meant. That mediterneans are increasingly characterised as an distinct ethnic group. This group has been formed by mixing various races together.

I kinda agree with you...I believe there's somthing in common with all the people that live on the mediterranean coasts...since there were traddes in the past...if one looks at the history of the mediterranea and the invasions that occured in it one may have a better understanding of what we share in common and what is more "local" like for exemple the people of the Maghreb do share some berber genes that all the other mediterranean people lack...on the other hand, I suppose that all of us have some roman genes since all the mediterranea was once part of a single empire...

I kinda agree with you...I believe there's somthing in common with all the people that live on the mediterranean coasts...since there were traddes in the past...if one looks at the history of the mediterranea and the invasions that occured in it one may have a better understanding of what we share in common and what is more "local" like for exemple the people of the Maghreb do share some berber genes that all the other mediterranean people lack...on the other hand, I suppose that all of us have some roman genes since all the mediterranea was once part of a single empire...

I totally agree with you but also tend to forget the phoenician , the arab and the vandal invasions that changed drastically our gene s base.

We truly are in tunisia arabs with berbers background .

Yes I agree with that...also, don't forget to mention the degree of gene contribution of each people/civilization that came to Tunisia..for instance the arabs came with their culture since the 7th century A.D. (if I recall well) until today, while the vandals stayed in Tunisia for barely one century...it's amazing to see that mixture of various people through time and how did each one of them contribute to the richness, not only of our genes, but also of our culture...

Yes I agree with that...also, don't forget to mention the degree of gene contribution of each people/civilization that came to Tunisia..for instance the arabs came with their culture since the 7th century A.D. (if I recall well) until today, while the vandals stayed in Tunisia for barely one century...it's amazing to see that mixture of various people through time and how did each one of them contribute to the richness, not only of our genes, but also of our culture...

No other comments :cheers:

oh come on man
first this word Berber is insult for me and for all imazighen
man it's Amazigh you must noticed all of you and never say berber anymore anymoooooooooooooooooooore damn
2 when the Phoenicians get to tunisia they were just queen elisar and just few people they get away from her brother the king
so just few people not all Phoenicia
so i think just 80/100 or more of tunisians are imazighen
just compare tunisians with moroccans and algerians :)

this rally wrong we are not ni Amazigh or berber we are Arab
and even the Amazigh have an ancient relation ship to the arab world they havr the same father and mother and i heard that the Amazigh are ancient arab who had moved from the شبه الجزيرة العربية from a long time ago even before the romain area .and by the way the Elissa story is just a legend .and do not forget that our country is from 1400 years influeced by the arab and moslim world

this rally wrong we are not ni Amazigh or berber we are Arab
and even the Amazigh have an ancient relation ship to the arab world they havr the same father and mother and i heard that the Amazigh are ancient arab who had moved from the شبه الجزيرة العربية from a long time ago even before the romain area .and by the way the Elissa story is just a legend .and do not forget that our country is from 1400 years influeced by the arab and moslim world

True but we were influenced by Phoenicians for over 900 years , the Roman for over 500 years the Andalousian , the Turks .

We truly are the dscendants of all theseinfluences .

Note ; the berbers or mazigh in morroco and Algeria are NOT arabs they are two different ethnological groups :)

True but we were influenced by Phoenicians for over 900 years , the Roman for over 500 years the Andalousian , the Turks .
We truly are the dscendants of all theseinfluences .
Note ; the berbers or mazigh in morroco and Algeria are NOT arabs they are two different ethnological groups :)

First you were occupeted by Phoenicians romans andalousian turks and not influenced ( it's not easy like that's just influenced )
and you must be proud of your amazigh identity cause when you were just imazighen you were the best and the center of mondial civilation ( da99a city as exmple)
and we imazighen we are all proud of this small city ...


Note ; the berbers or mazigh in morroco and Algeria are NOT arabs they are two different ethnological groups

good morning !!! :) tell me just who says this crazy sentence !!!

this rally wrong we are not ni Amazigh or berber we are Arab
and even the Amazigh have an ancient relation ship to the arab world they havr the same father and mother and i heard that the Amazigh are ancient arab who had moved from the شبه الجزيرة العربية from a long time ago even before the romain area .and by the way the Elissa story is just a legend .and do not forget that our country is from 1400 years influeced by the arab and moslim world

good morning yoy too !!!
the amazigh have no relation with the arab class ( i hope when you talk about such interesting issue ... speak scientifically not just legends )
and the tunisian (major part) are imazighen ( and i think 80/100 of tunisians are arabised and 20/100 are amazighophones they speak amazigh in the south of tunisia )
and to say that's the tuisian are arab that's really foolish

First you were occupeted by Phoenicians romans andalousian turks and not influenced ( it's not easy like that's just influenced )
and you must be proud of your amazigh identity cause when you were just imazighen you were the best and the center of mondial civilation ( da99a city as exmple)
and we imazighen we are all proud of this small city ...


Note ; the berbers or mazigh in morroco and Algeria are NOT arabs they are two different ethnological groups

good morning !!! :) tell me just who says this crazy sentence !!!

Well we were occupied that is true but after 800 yesra of occupation there is a blend between the two culture and it s not an occupation anymore ..

Well for the last part i replied to the comemnts of miind_20..

Note : I am proud of my origins don't get me wrong ! and that includes my arab (berbers if any) african andalousian and turks roots ...

Well we were occupied that is true but after 800 yesra of occupation there is a blend between the two culture and it s not an occupation anymore ..

Well for the last part i replied to the comemnts of miind_20..

Note : I am proud of my origins don't get me wrong ! and that includes my arab (berbers if any) african andalousian and turks roots ...

well teh occupation still accupation alike 800 years or moore !!!
and you're amazigh not arab not anything you can cerify by a test for DNA and i think that's more of 80/100 of tunisians are imazighen too

NB : NEVER DONT CALL IMAZIGHEN AMAZIGH BY BERBER OK ?

well teh occupation still accupation alike 800 years or moore !!!
and you're amazigh not arab not anything you can cerify by a test for DNA and i think that's more of 80/100 of tunisians are imazighen too

NB : NEVER DONT CALL IMAZIGHEN AMAZIGH BY BERBER OK ?


well i m not Amazigh or Berber or whatever you want to call it i m TUNISIAN , i m the descendant of all the civilization that came accross our country throughout the 5 000 of our HISTORY

I understnad that you probably are an amzigh and you are proud of it and that is fine with me but we are different in Tunisia we are a mix .

cheers .:)

well i m not Amazigh you want to call it i m TUNISIAN , i m the descendant of all the civilization that came accross our country throughout the 5 000 of our HISTORY
I understnad that you probably are an amzigh and you are proud of it and that is fine with me but we are different in Tunisia we are a mix .
cheers .:)

just 5000 years
the amazigh history in tunisia even in in all tamazgha is more ancient than 5000 years
:)

Everyone should be free to define themselves as they'd like. Let's not steer this thread to the Amazigh/Arab question any further.

well i m not Amazigh or Berber or whatever you want to call it i m TUNISIAN , i m the descendant of all the civilization that came accross our country throughout the 5 000 of our HISTORY

I understnad that you probably are an amzigh and you are proud of it and that is fine with me but we are different in Tunisia we are a mix .

cheers .:)

Genetic studies so that Tunisian are Imazighen. It also shows that there wasn't really a mix of other groups with Tunisians. When couple thousand Phoenicia people came to Tunisia a lot of the Tunisian Imazighen took over the culture, religion etc. The same happend when the Arabs came. A lot of Tunisian took over the culture, religion etc...





Qoute:

Genetic Research:


Despite this Berber heterogeneity, no significant differences were found between Berber and Arab samples, suggesting that the Arabization was mainly a cultural process rather than a demographic replacement.





http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15180702
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabized_Berber

Recent scientific studies
Studies have shown samples of DNA for a large number of inhabitants of North Africa, most North Africans whether they consider themselves Arabs or SUBSTITUTING carrying e3b2 distinctive character in general for people with assets Tamazight rocketed by almost percent percent in Morocco, slightly lower degree in Algeria. This makes us conclude weak migrations coming from the Middle East toward North Africa and the Arab influence on the region is limited in the field of cultural and linguistic influence without any ethnic population is of course without regard Tunisia, which represents the vast majority Arabs and Iaudzlk to privacy and their role in the Islamic conquest in Morocco to find The people of Tunisia are mainly from Arab tribes that migrated during the Arab conquest, however migrations in addition to the Beni Hilal tribe, which landed in Tunisia and barbaric race by a tiny percentage of researchers b 0.3 percent [need to source] [1] [2]


see this and learn we are tunisian and arab and maybe we have a a tiny minoroty of the amasigh poeplation that confirm my suggestion and this time i have a Recent scientific studies and please be more open

Genetic studies so that Tunisian are Imazighen. It also shows that there wasn't really a mix of other groups with Tunisians. When couple thousand Phoenicia people came to Tunisia a lot of the Tunisian Imazighen took over the culture, religion etc. The same happend when the Arabs came. A lot of Tunisian took over the culture, religion etc...





Qoute:

Genetic Research:


Despite this Berber heterogeneity, no significant differences were found between Berber and Arab samples, suggesting that the Arabization was mainly a cultural process rather than a demographic replacement.





http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15180702
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabized_Berber

well it seems like you are not understanding one thing : the reseach that you are refefring to are trageted to some remote areas with a predominant berebre background . But this is a tiny minority of the tunsiian propulation . theses samples actually reiforces the first one : the tunisian popualtion is the result of a melting pot except some remote areas ...

The majority (98%[4]) of modern Tunisians are Arab,[5] and are speakers of Tunisian Arabic. However, there is also a small (1% at most[6]) population of Berbers located in the Jabal Dahar mountains in the South East and on the island of Jerba. The Berbers primarily speak Berber languages, often called Shelha. The other long-established community in the country is Jewish (today mainly in the capital Tunis and on Jerba), much reduced in number since independence from France.

One study indicates that the majority of the genetic material in Tunisia did not arrive with the Arabs (no more than 20% was found to come from the Middle East, and most of this presumably was added by Phoenicians/Carthaginians or as even early as the neolithic several millennia B.C. rather than during the Arab conquest).

Another study, which does not compare Tunisian genetics with those of the Middle East, states that what it calls the Arab subhaplotype Va was found at a relatively high frequency in Tunisia at 50.6%.[2], but also states that this group in fact "probably correspond to a heterogeneous group representing various ethnicities", rather than just Arabs. Yet another finds that "the Tunisian genetic distances to European samples are smaller than those to North African groups" (these groups being from the Moroccan Atlas and the Siwa oasis in Egypt). This suggests a fairly significant European input to Tunisian genetics ^^^^^^

end of this debate I guess

SOurce Wikipedia

well it seems like you are not understanding one thing : the reseach that you are refefring to are trageted to some remote areas with a predominant berebre background . But this is a tiny minority of the tunsiian propulation . theses samples actually reiforces the first one : the tunisian popualtion is the result of a melting pot except some remote areas ...

The majority (98%[4]) of modern Tunisians are Arab,[5] and are speakers of Tunisian Arabic. However, there is also a small (1% at most[6]) population of Berbers located in the Jabal Dahar mountains in the South East and on the island of Jerba. The Berbers primarily speak Berber languages, often called Shelha. The other long-established community in the country is Jewish (today mainly in the capital Tunis and on Jerba), much reduced in number since independence from France.

One study indicates that the majority of the genetic material in Tunisia did not arrive with the Arabs (no more than 20% was found to come from the Middle East, and most of this presumably was added by Phoenicians/Carthaginians or as even early as the neolithic several millennia B.C. rather than during the Arab conquest).

Another study, which does not compare Tunisian genetics with those of the Middle East, states that what it calls the Arab subhaplotype Va was found at a relatively high frequency in Tunisia at 50.6%.[2], but also states that this group in fact "probably correspond to a heterogeneous group representing various ethnicities", rather than just Arabs. Yet another finds that "the Tunisian genetic distances to European samples are smaller than those to North African groups" (these groups being from the Moroccan Atlas and the Siwa oasis in Egypt). This suggests a fairly significant European input to Tunisian genetics ^^^^^^

end of this debate I guess

SOurce Wikipedia



I know that Tunisia now has a very little Amazigh population and most Tunisian talk Arab etc..

The research shows that the Arab Tunisians are all from Amazigh origine. And that there was no really migration from the Middle East to Tunisia.
Even Carthago was a Amazigh city who took over the culture etc from The Foenciers and also the army of Hannibal were Imazighen too and some experts say that Hannibal was Amazigh too..

When the Foenciers came to Tunisia it were only a couple of thousands and most of them came for the trade and a lot of them went back, but they left their culture in Tunisia and a lot of Imazighen took it over, that is what scientist say..


The Arabized Tunisians are Arabized Imazighen, just like in Morocco, Algeria and Libya..

Recent scientific studies
Studies have shown samples of DNA for a large number of inhabitants of North Africa, most North Africans whether they consider themselves Arabs or SUBSTITUTING carrying e3b2 distinctive character in general for people with assets Tamazight rocketed by almost percent percent in Morocco, slightly lower degree in Algeria. This makes us conclude weak migrations coming from the Middle East toward North Africa and the Arab influence on the region is limited in the field of cultural and linguistic influence without any ethnic population is of course without regard Tunisia, which represents the vast majority Arabs and Iaudzlk to privacy and their role in the Islamic conquest in Morocco to find The people of Tunisia are mainly from Arab tribes that migrated during the Arab conquest, however migrations in addition to the Beni Hilal tribe, which landed in Tunisia and barbaric race by a tiny percentage of researchers b 0.3 percent [need to source] [1] [2]


see this and learn we are tunisian and arab and maybe we have a a tiny minoroty of the amasigh poeplation that confirm my suggestion and this time i have a Recent scientific studies and please be more open


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Recent scientific studies
Studies have shown samples of DNA for a large number of inhabitants of North Africa, most North Africans whether they consider themselves Arabs or SUBSTITUTING carrying e3b2 distinctive character in general for people with assets Tamazight rocketed by almost percent percent in Morocco, slightly lower degree in Algeria. This makes us conclude weak migrations coming from the Middle East toward North Africa and the Arab influence on the region is limited in the field of cultural and linguistic influence without any ethnic population is of course without regard Tunisia, which represents the vast majority Arabs and Iaudzlk to privacy and their role in the Islamic conquest in Morocco to find The people of Tunisia are mainly from Arab tribes that migrated during the Arab conquest, however migrations in addition to the Beni Hilal tribe, which landed in Tunisia and barbaric race by a tiny percentage of researchers b 0.3 percent [need to source] [1] [2]


see this and learn we are tunisian and arab and maybe we have a a tiny minoroty of the amasigh poeplation that confirm my suggestion and this time i have a Recent scientific studies and please be more open


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Fadhlaoui-Zid K, Plaza S, Calafell F, Ben Amor M, Comas D, Bennamar El gaaied A.

Laboratoire de Génétique Moléculaire, Immunologie et Biotechnologie, Faculté des Sciences de Tunis, Université Tunis El Manar, 2092 Tunis, Tunisia.

displayed by Berbers compared to Arab samples as shown in the AMOVA. Despite this Berber heterogeneity, no significant differences were found between Berber and Arab samples, suggesting that the Arabization was mainly a cultural process rather than a demographic replacement.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15180702



:cheers:

Fadhlaoui-Zid K, Plaza S, Calafell F, Ben Amor M, Comas D, Bennamar El gaaied A.

Laboratoire de Génétique Moléculaire, Immunologie et Biotechnologie, Faculté des Sciences de Tunis, Université Tunis El Manar, 2092 Tunis, Tunisia.

displayed by Berbers compared to Arab samples as shown in the AMOVA. Despite this Berber heterogeneity, no significant differences were found between Berber and Arab samples, suggesting that the Arabization was mainly a cultural process rather than a demographic replacement.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15180702



:cheers:

Your not quoting the first part of this research wich sas :

Berbers live in groups scattered across North Africa whose origins and genetic relationships with their neighbours are not well established. The first hypervariable segment of the mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) control region was sequenced in a total of 155 individuals from three Tunisian Berber groups and compared to other North Africans. The mtDNA lineages found belong to a common set of mtDNA haplogroups already described in North Africa. Besides the autochthonous North African U6 haplogroup, a group of L3 lineages characterized by the transition at position 16041 seems to be restricted to North Africans, suggesting that an expansion of this group of lineages took place around 10500 years ago in North Africa, and spread to neighbouring populations. Principal components and the coordinate analyses show that some Berber groups (the Tuareg, the Mozabite, and the Chenini-Douiret) are outliers within the North African genetic landscape.


theses are specific AREAS in Tunisia that represents a FRACTION of it s population and yes there are berbers or Amzigh if youwant sowe do AGREE ONLY A tiny portion a MINORITY of the modern tunisians ARE INDEED AMAZIGH.
We aso have a blackc ommunity in Tunisia near Gabés ... using the same argumentaion i can easily says that we are all black in tunisia ...

we do have minorities (amazigh, touaregs,blacks, jews christians) and that s truly a gift but the overall POPULATION is as stated in the research a HETEROGENIUS groups reprenting various ethnicities with less difference with EUROPENEANS than with the other Nort African Groups

so we do agree , a minority is Amazgh in remote areas , the majority is a mix of different ethnicities including Amazigh, sub saharian,Phoenician, Romans Vandals, Italian Turks, French Maltese Spanish , greeks Arabs )

we ve been a crossroad for the last 3 000 years we ve been colonized as you said dring all that periodof time form different ethni groups it is obvious that they left somehow a print in our blood and that makes us imo truly mediteraneans

Your not quoting the first part of this research wich sas :




theses are specific AREAS in Tunisia that represents a FRACTION of it s population and yes there are berbers or Amzigh if youwant sowe do AGREE ONLY A tiny portion a MINORITY of the modern tunisians ARE INDEED AMAZIGH.
We aso have a blackc ommunity in Tunisia near Gabés ... using the same argumentaion i can easily says that we are all black in tunisia ...

we do have minorities (amazigh, touaregs,blacks, jews christians) and that s truly a gift but the overall POPULATION is as stated in the research a HETEROGENIUS groups reprenting various ethnicities with less difference with EUROPENEANS than with the other Nort African Groups

so we do agree , a minority is Amazgh in remote areas , the majority is a mix of different ethnicities including Amazigh, sub saharian,Phoenician, Romans Vandals, Italian Turks, French Maltese Spanish , greeks Arabs )

we ve been a crossroad for the last 3 000 years we ve been colonized as you said dring all that periodof time form different ethni groups it is obvious that they left somehow a print in our blood and that makes us imo truly mediteraneans


Please you can not deny genetic research.

The Turkisch, Greeks, Arabs etc didn´t came with millions to Tunisia. Mostly they came with thousands of people and a lot of them left Tunisia. There has been nog genetic mixture with other popualtion is was mostly cultural mixture that has genetic research shown..

Tunisian people are from origine Imazighen and related to people in Europa just like Moroccans, Algerians..

Moroccans, Algerians, Libyans and Tunisians are close related to people in Spain, Greece, Iberians etc


http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119179829/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

Please you can not deny genetic research.

The Turkisch, Greeks, Arabs etc didn´t came with millions to Tunisia. Mostly they came with thousands of people and a lot of them left Tunisia. There has been nog genetic mixture with other popualtion is was mostly cultural mixture that has genetic research shown..

Tunisian people are from origine Imazighen and related to people in Europa just like Moroccans, Algerians..

Moroccans, Algerians, Libyans and Tunisians are close related to people in Spain, Greece, Iberians etc


http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/119179829/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

this is going anywhere :bash: you are contradicting yourself ythe research that you QUOTED and the ones that I QUOTED says OTHERWISE now if you think that we are all wrong then it is your opinion and I respect it but do not use the genetics researchs as an argument because they are all saying the SAME THING : The tunisian population is mainly a HETEROGENIUS group representing various ethnicities with less difference with EUROPENEANS than with the other Nort African Groups^^^^^^

i do not know where all this is going to put us . we must arabe an Imazighe be united , searching on racial and ethical gender has no sens but serve the western propaganda to split our nation in smaller and smaller country so please we must all be more open