http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/8413/216pxcarlsberglogood7.png - probably the best development in Copenhagen

As promised here is the thread for the new, huge Carlsberg development area in Copenhagen. I will arrange the thread continously, however, at first it will appear more simple.

The short story:

In a maneuver of increasing effectivity Carlsberg Group (http://www.carlsberggroup.com/
) decided to move their large brewery activities located on their historic premises in Copenhagen to Fredericia. This made room for a whole new urban area to be created in the centre of Copenhagen. A comprehensive programming phase was held initially involving neighbors and other IOs. Carlsberg wanted to receive an overall input of ideas on the future of their site before running a formal ideas competition on the area.

An international ideas competition on a master plan for the area was held in early 2007. In all 221 proposals from all over the world came in. On the 22nd of May 2007 the winner was announced, Danish architects entasis (http://www.entasis.dk).

The winning proposal on a master plan then went into a working process. Extensive amounts of public dialogue was carried out along the way with hundreds of meetings with neighbors and IOs etc. providing yet another input on the reworking process of the winning master plan proposal. After a year of processing the final master plan was presented and handed over to the politicians on the 9th of May 2008. It is now up to the politicians to agree on a new, overall district plan for the area.

Facts:

Developer:
Carlsberg Properties (http://www.carlsbergejendomme.com/?lang=uk)

Official website of the project:
www.voresby.com

Size of the area:
330.000 m2 including nine high-rises

Timeframe:
2009-2020

Master plan architect/winner of the international master plan competition:
Entasis (http://www.entasis.dk)

Primary consultant/designer on the new squares and parks:
Vogt Landscape Architects (http://www.vogt-la.ch/en/)

The original, winning proposal:

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/3659/6781120fra20luftenuj3.jpg

Architects involved at this stage with detail design:

Phase 1 (construction start January 2009):
Henning Larsen Architects (http://www.hlt.dk)
Årstiderne Arkitekter (http://www.aarstiderne.dk/)
Tegnestuen Vandkunsten (http://www.vandkunsten.com/)

Phase 2 (construction start currently unknown):
Entasis (http://www.entasis.dk)
Ladner Meier Arkitekten (http://www.ladnermeier.com/home.html)
C. F. Møller Architects (http://www.cfmoller.com/)

(Note that all in all the project consists of around 20 phases)

Overall status (updated 15/6-2008):
Currently going through the political decision process. There seems to be a huge majority in favor of the project. Construction supposed to commence January 2009

Keywords describing the project:
CO2 neutral, classical urbanity, squares, towers, openness, public dialogue, parks, organic facades, suncells, affordable housing, "Our City", rooftop architectural parasites, water, hanging gardens, diversity, cellars, small shops

The main idea of the master plan:

Lets create the classical, dense city again in a modern, updated version. We know it works on creating life and activity 24/7. We don't want a new Ørestad (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=365571) based on the principles of modernism. Lets mix this classical approach with some tall towers creating identity and some unique squares, where people can meet. Hide the cars in huge, underground parking silos on the outskirts of the city so that the cars are kept out of the area. Lets focus on pedestrians, bicyclists and public transportation. Lets reuse the old, industrial facilities for cultural activities (dance halls, galleries, concert halls etc.)

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/7673/detobyrumyu9.jpg

Location in Copenhagen:

http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/197/oversigtmh1.jpg

The reworked master plan project:

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/8170/flyby1fl7.jpg

The current site:

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/2677/nuvrendenu5.jpg

The reworked master plan project with various information inserted (updated 17/6-2008):

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/8062/flybyminformationeryd0mhx7.jpg

The 9 towers:

Here is some data on the 9 towers. The respective tower's assigned number in the table below correpsponds to its location in the rendering above.

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/5976/50759725gy0.jpg

Various renderings from the reworked master plan:

Note that the respective renderings's assigned number in this section correpsponds to its (blue) location number in the rendering above.

1. View towards "Markedspladsen" - the Marketplace - one of the squares of the city:

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/4749/kolonnadegl2.jpg

2. View of "Kulturpladsen" - The Square of Culture:

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/8117/kulturpladsengf5.jpg

3. View of "Kælderpladsen" - The Square of the Cellars

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/4821/kaelderpladsencx4.jpg

4. View of one of the future city parks with lakes created by directing rain from the roofs of the city. This is the current "Akademiets Have" - The Garden of the Academy - with a size of 31.400 m2:

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/6213/parklv4.jpg

5. View of one of the high-rises (100 meter) from "Istedgade":

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/4815/istedbd0.jpg

6. View of one of the high-rises (80 meter) from "Humleby":

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/1497/humlebytk1.jpg

7. View of the famous "Gate of the Elephant" with one of the (hotel?) high-rises (50 meter) on the right:

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/9124/elefantportenpr9.jpg

8. The high-rises seen from Østerbro (4,6 kilometers away):

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/7669/42331049ex4.png

9. The new station, "Ny Enghave" or "Carlsberg", at "Stationspladsen":

http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/7442/carlsbergstation2wf2.jpg

10. The new station from another angle:

http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/4848/station1sf3.png

Various pictures from the current site:

I hope you recognize some of the locations below in the renderings above.

1.

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/9104/01ri3.jpg

2.

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/3451/02wh8.jpg

3.

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/5417/03ar5.jpg

4a. The present:

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/5126/04lg6.jpg

4b. The future?

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/9838/43147434ki5.jpg

5.

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/6921/05nn3.jpg

6.

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/770/06wf9.jpg

7.

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/5503/07ar3.jpg

8.

http://img159.imageshack.us/img159/2040/08me0.jpg

9.

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/4638/09us8.jpg

10.

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/7418/10st4.jpg

11.

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/1585/13tw7.jpg

12.

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/2294/carlsbergstogoa4.jpg

13.

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/4265/carlshave01gj4.jpg

14.

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/1926/carlshave02tv3.jpg

15.

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/4412/haven01mt4.jpg

16.

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/7810/haven02xc3.jpg

17.

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/1130/haven03dm3.jpg

18.

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/1091/hesteej7.jpg

19a. The present:

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/7746/kaelder03cc4.jpg

19b. The future?

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/9578/78052733cx5.jpg

20a. The present:

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/7196/kaelder04up6.jpg

20b. The future?

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/6228/31109148mb6.jpg

21a. The present:

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/7198/kaelder06wh2.jpg

21b. The future?

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/4223/36198482cx8.jpg

22.

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/4222/kedler01fo5.jpg

23.

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/5894/maskinhaller01ps9.jpg

24.

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/1977/maskinhaller02qa9.jpg

25a. The present:

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/9357/maskinhaller03gc4.jpg

25b. The future?

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/3444/68163362ut5.jpg

26.

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/7812/maskinhaller04lm0.jpg

27.

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/8138/maskinhaller06bb0.jpg

28.

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/4019/maskinstation02jh7.jpg

29.

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/1640/maskinstation05sp2.jpg

30.

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/8104/udsigtfravillabe9.jpg

Phase 1

Status (updated 16/6-2008):
Detail design under way. Henning Larsen Architects (http://www.hlt.dk), Årstiderne Arkitekter (http://www.aarstiderne.dk/) and Tegnestuen Vandkunsten (http://www.vandkunsten.com/) are involved.

Renderings from phase 1:

1. The area of phase 1 with the projects of the respective architects involved marked:

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/6123/frsteomrdejt7.png

Phase 2

Status (updated 16/6-2008):
Entasis (http://www.entasis.dk), Ladner Meier Arkitekten (http://www.ladnermeier.com/home.html) and C. F. Møller Architects (http://www.cfmoller.com/) are involved design-wise. The new Carlsberg Group and DK HQ by C. F. Møller Architects has been put on hold as the Carlsberg Group (http://www.carlsberggroup.com/
) is busy focusing on the huge Scottish & Newcastle (http://www.scottish-newcastle.com/) takeover.

Renderings from phase 2:

NIL yet

The garbage can:

Hmm. Weird things found in the renderings...:)

What seems to be the top of the church of Nikolaj hidden awkwardly in the big flyby rendering:

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/6348/16707758nn9.png

Older ladies on high heels in nice lingerie posing near "Markedspladsen":

http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/3948/14044824dl0.png

Who's hiding behind the tree in The Garden of the Academy?

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/7544/48257572sr4.png

Really good job Fab5,

What about making a twin of this thread in this section: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=904

...maybe some international forumers would be interested in following the future development:)

Great work! What kind of project is Ladner Meier Arkitekten involved in and what kind of company is it, never heard about them before?

And will it take long before some of the more high profile projects start to get going - with the potenially larger international names involved? Is that already in the earlier stages or will it take ages?

^^Someone told me, that they are involved with entasis' first resi project (marked on the huge rendering). They are based in Copenhagen too (in the same building as entasis BTW).

The strategy of Carlsberg Properties seems to be focused on gaining some hands-on experiences while running the first phase (three resi projects + a square, "Industrikulturens Plads". If this phase is a success we will see the project running pretty fast, I think. I don't know whether they hold ambitions on involving A-list architects - hopefully! The first high-rise will probably be the 50 meter hotel project close to phase 1.

Very interesting project, I just hope it will end up a bit less brownish! ;)

BTW: I did some "studies" on the volume and size of the proposed towers for Carlsberg. My point of departure was the 120 meters tall, 20x20 meter high-rise. I wanted to look at it in comparison with the Copenhagen Town Hall.

Thanks to FREKI - I used one of your old pics as "frame".

I am not finished with the processing and I will probably end up adjusting the height a bit.

The Copenhagen Town Hall (106 meters, quardratic footprint of roughly 10x10 meters):

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/1874/dscn3636smalllf9.jpg

The proposed 120 meters, 20x20 Carlsberg high-rise:

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/7984/carlsbergqb6.jpg

Interesting. Maybe you could put it next to the town hall for comparison. (the NIMBYs would love it:lol:)

Interesting. Maybe you could put it next to the town hall for comparison. (the NIMBYs would love it:lol:)

:lol:I don't want to make it too easy for them! BTW: My little work shows how easy it is to make an exceptionally small tower look huge - just choose the right frame.

Very nice work, Fab5. I haven't seen the street level renderings before - they look very nice. Reminds me a lot of the redevelopment plans for Sofielund in Malmö which will undergo similar refurbishment albeit on a smaller scale (no highrises for example).

Sweet!

Wow, look great. They could better make a cluster of towers, not spread them. But this project looks amazing!

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/7669/42331049ex4.png

Love this ^^ The first baby skyline in Scandinavia? Looks great!

Really good job Fab5,

What about making a twin of this thread in this section: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=904

...maybe some international forumers would be interested in following the future development:)

Done then - but I screwed up the title not realizing that special rules apply in that part of the forum... I will probably have a mod complaining within 30 minutes...

^^BTW: I hope you will back me up and all help me in running the thread over in the General Urban Developments forum. We all know how fast things run there and how aggressive people can act.

^^
Of course...I'll try to help out as good as I can.

You can change the title when editing the first post. Just go to the advanced settings.

^^Hmm - are you sure? Isn't it just possible to change the title of the first post?

sweet project, i mean it looks like this area will get evrything you can wish for, tall buildings and real innercity houses... wish they could build somethinf like this in Stockholm aswell

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/7669/42331049ex4.png

Love this ^^ The first baby skyline in Scandinavia? Looks great!

i agree! lets see if this skyline becomes a reality!

Amazing work Fab 5! :cheers2:

Interesting that they are combining towers with the aim to recreate in a modern guise a classical urban space. Just curious, how central is this really, and how will it affect Copenhagen's skyline of classical spires and towers?
Kulturpladsen looks good, I like the idea of revamped factory buildings.

Interesting that they are combining towers with the aim to recreate in a modern guise a classical urban space. Just curious, how central is this really, and how will it affect Copenhagen's skyline of classical spires and towers?
Kulturpladsen looks good, I like the idea of revamped factory buildings.

It depends on how you define "central", however, it is 2.500 meters from the Copenhagen Town Hall Square, 2.000 meters from Central Station (both as the crow flies).

It is supposed to support the existing Copenhagen skyline of spires and towers. That's why the towers are so slender and quardratic.

^^
I'd say it is geographically central, but the location does not feel very central at all today, mostly because of the urban fabric there.

I have updated the first post with more info on the towers.

Nice project with so many qualities!! I love the towers and the integration with the train station. It's nice to see a real dense urban project, where old architecture is mixed with a modern expression.

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/7669/42331049ex4.png

Love this ^^ The first baby skyline in Scandinavia? Looks great!

Copenhagen will then have tree future skylines. Carlsberg, Nordhavnen and Ørestaden. Which one will be the most famous to represent Copenhagen?

Nordhavnen. It will be the tallest (hopefully):)

How did this thread go from 300 hits to almost 1000 hits in less than two hours? Hmm, SSC behaving weird.

I have uploaded a bunch of pictures in the first post so that you can get an idea of the current site. Text for the pictures will be included at some point.

OK. Running yet another update in the first post. It is now possible to see where the renderings have been taken from (all marked with angles in the big flyby)

You are doing a great job with this Thread Fab 5 :cheers:

Depending on the pace of development, this could certainly become the best cluster in Copenhagen - before Nordhavnen is developed.

Depending on the pace of development, this could certainly become the best cluster in Copenhagen - before Nordhavnen is developed.

Indeed, however, always getting worried when reading things like this http://epn.dk/okonomi/article1344184.ece...

There was also an article a few days ago saying that Carlsberg is going to do some large cuts soon, which makes me worry a bit for this project.

There was also an article a few days ago saying that Carlsberg is going to do some large cuts soon, which makes me worry a bit for this project.

Well, Carlsberg is currently digesting the largest takeover in the history of Denmark focusing on creating as much cashflow as possible in order to pay for Scottish & Newcastle. That's why they are talking on closing down smaller breweries (in Switzerland, UK and Germany). I guess that's what you call cuts. They are only OPTIMIZING. I am not too worried on this project, as it has so many qualities. Instead I would be worried on e.g. a project like Christiansberg, that is kind of the same story as Carlsberg (almost trying to do what I regard as a total rip-off strategy-wise), but with a much worse location and surroundings and a much less interesting story to tell.

The public hearing process on the Carlsberg project has officially been kicked of as of today.

I hope you all (at least the Danes:)) will participate in this phase (forum, formal comments) and back this sympathetic project with nine high-rises up. I think it deserves it. Lets not let hidden NIMBY's mess this one up.

Here is the link:

http://www.planogarkitektur.kk.dk/Byplanlægning/Lokalplanforslag/Carlsberg_II.aspx

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/7669/42331049ex4.png

Love this ^^ The first baby skyline in Scandinavia? Looks great!

Noooooooooooo... but you can become a number two, if this gets build :)

Looks ok btw, the hight, but they need to work on design. Nice for Copenhagen!

^^
Where's #1?
The the design isn't final - it's just a masterplan.

^^
Where's #1?
The the design isn't final - it's just a masterplan.

Oslo is nr 1, and are constructing further on the "cluster" as we speak.

Oslo is definitely no.1 in inferiority complex, that's for sure! :lol:

Oslo is definitely no.1 in inferiority complex, that's for sure! :lol:

Oh please, is that the best you can do? You`re the same Staff who can`t handle a debate and runs off when someone asks you to substantiate your arguments, right?

Oh please, is that the best you can do? You`re the same Staff who can`t handle a debate and runs off when someone asks you to substantiate your arguments, right?

How many highrises does the Oslo "Cluster" include, and how tall are they?

The Carlsberg area is just one of many new future "Clusters" in Copenhagen...

...and in the rest of Scandinavia. And compared to almost all other places in the world we all suck big time! Of all the many things we have to be proud of in Scandinavia- all of us - this certainly is the one thing NOT to brag about! There's something tragicomic about a fight about who has the least small dick in the class!:lol:

^^
:rofl:

Let's get back to the topic guys - no more dick-talk.

How many highrises does the Oslo "Cluster" include, and how tall are they?

The Carlsberg area is just one of many new future "Clusters" in Copenhagen...

Yeah, I know there are plans for many clusters in Copenhagen, which I think is great. My comment to Moveteam was regarding the first baby skyline (cluster). Since Carlsberg highrises doesnt exsist yet, Oslo have to be the first cluster.

We already have Plaza 117m, postgiro 107m, and they are working on KLP with to towers 65m. That makes four towers.
The next 5-6 years they will build 6-8 more towers with a hight of 65m. That makes a total of 10-12 towers.
There are also plans for a highrise on 127m and one 23 storie highrise.
So in lets say 7 years, this cluster might have 12-14 highrises between 65-127m.

...and in the rest of Scandinavia. And compared to almost all other places in the world we all suck big time! Of all the many things we have to be proud of in Scandinavia- all of us - this certainly is the one thing NOT to brag about! There's something tragicomic about a fight about who has the least small dick in the class!:lol:

Funny, but you like highrises right? Its only natural that we debate these things. I dont think its bragging, only healthy competition.

Funny, but you like highrises right? Its only natural that we debate these things. I dont think its bragging, only healthy competition.

I sure do but just found the discussion rather comic and a bit off topic. But feel free to argue on, I'm having good fun!:)

I sure do but just found the discussion rather comic and a bit off topic. But feel free to argue on, I'm having good fun!:)

Ditto! :lol:

Yeah, I know there are plans for many clusters in Copenhagen, which I think is great. My comment to Moveteam was regarding the first baby skyline (cluster). Since Carlsberg highrises doesnt exsist yet, Oslo have to be the first cluster.

We already have Plaza 117m, postgiro 107m, and they are working on KLP with to towers 65m. That makes four towers.
The next 5-6 years they will build 6-8 more towers with a hight of 65m. That makes a total of 10-12 towers.
There are also plans for a highrise on 127m and one 23 storie highrise.
So in lets say 7 years, this cluster might have 12-14 highrises between 65-127m.

...I find it particularly adorable the way you seem to refer to two highrises as a "cluster" and a skyline since you write that "Oslo is nr 1, and are constructing further on the "cluster" as we speak" and then inform us that there are currently two highrises there and one under construction. Well we have a cluster of one, does THAT count to?:nuts: But that you will eventually have the first babyskyline in Scandinavia sounds right judging from what you write and congrats on that.:)

actually carlsberg city has 2 highrises at the moment... the Carlsberg HQ and that ugly residential thing that looks like a cigarrette...

Oh please, is that the best you can do? You`re the same Staff who can`t handle a debate and runs off when someone asks you to substantiate your arguments, right?
Getting personal, are we?
Please take your little brother-complex somewhere else. You've done nothing but stirring up shit in this thread.

...I find it particularly adorable the way you seem to refer to two highrises as a "cluster" and a skyline since you write that "Oslo is nr 1, and are constructing further on the "cluster" as we speak" and then inform us that there are currently two highrises there and one under construction. Well we have a cluster of one, does THAT count to?:nuts: But that you will eventually have the first babyskyline in Scandinavia sounds right judging from what you write and congrats on that.:)

I`m not saying those two highrises makes a cluster, thats why I used the quotation mark. But it will become a cluster, and if we see the cluster as one future unit, one could say they are building further on the cluster yes.

Getting personal, are we?
Please take your little brother-complex somewhere else. You've done nothing but stirring up shit in this thread.

So so little darling, relax now, breathe slowly :lol:

:|

Just get out of here and keep the inferiority complex in the Oslo threads where it belongs. :okay:


Back to the Carlsberg development...

An interesting story off www.voresby.com (in Danish):

Vandkunsten budt op til dans

27/06-08 Af Anne Lønstrup

Wauw! Var arkitekt Jens Thomas Arnfreds første reaktion, da han blev ringet op og tilbudt at tegne et hus i det første byggeafsnit i den nye Carlsberg-by.

Planerne for udviklingen af en ny bydel på Carlsberg er på ingen måde ukendt for arkitekt Jens Thomas Arnfred fra Tegnestuen Vandkunsten. Han var til stede, da Christian Colds tegnestue Entasis for godt et år siden vandt over 220 andre i en international idékonkurrence om Carlsbergs fremtid. Han var allerede dengang fascineret af Christian Colds projekt "Vores Rum", og han mente, at det var godt gået af dommerkomiteen, at de fiskede netop dette mere stilfærdige bud på byens udvikling ud og præmierede det foran andre mere her-kommer-jeg-agtige forslag.

Da Vandkunsten så selv blev bedt om at tegne et hus i byens første byggeafsnit, var der ingen tøven: "Det var fedt. Jeg er beæret og glad, for her er vi blevet budt op til en dans, hvor det virkelig er svært at sidde stille på stolen," siger han.

Vi mødes på Vandkunstens tegnestue, der ligger lidt tilbagetrukket fra den travle og stærkt trafikerede Nørrebrogade. Heroppe på højde med byens tage har Vandkunstens ca. 30 ansatte haft til huse siden nytår. Navnet hænger ved fra den gang, da tegnestuen faktisk lå på adressen Vandkunsten i det indre København. Det var dengang, de troede på, at god arkitektur kunne ændre verden. Men idealerne er ikke døde. Tværtimod er Jens Thomas Arnfred en mand, der nøje overvejer, hvilke projekter han kan gå ind for.

God arkitektur skal lægge til

På Carlsberg leverer historien og de markante gamle bygninger et fantastisk udgangspunkt for enhver begavet arkitekt. Men samtidig ligger første byggeafsnit tæt opad naboerne på Frederiksberg, hvor ikke alle er begejstrede for, at bryggeriet erstattes af en tætbygget by.

"Det er meget krævende at bygge lige op til Bakkehusmuseet, som repræsenterer et stykke Guldalder-historie. Folk foretrækker altid det, de har og frygter det, der måtte komme. Men folkestyre og nybyggeri er nu en gang ikke altid de bedste venner. God arkitektur skal tage hensyn til stedet, men ikke nødvendigvis please eller behage - god arkitektur skal lægge noget til," konstaterer Jens Thomas Arnfred.

Spiret på Vor Frelser Kirke

Han nævner Erick van Egeraats højhusprojekt på Christianshavn som eksempel på et byggeri, der blev stemt ned af christianshavnerne. Og tilføjer, at det da er godt, at man ikke også stemte om spiret på Vor Frelsers Kirke. For så var det aldrig blevet bygget.

"Men selvfølgelig er der en vis stemning på Carlsberg. Det er jeg helt med på, og den prøver vi som arkitekter at møde. Jeg kan godt forstå, at man kan blive bange for arkitekter og for meget af dagens nybyggeri. Arkitektur er en voldsom metier, og hvis ikke den bliver fortolket på en "musikalsk" måde, kan det gå grueligt galt."

Lytter og overvejer

Det betyder så ikke, at Jens Thomas Arnfred og hans kolleger ryster på hænderne over at skulle tilføje Carlsberg et af de første nybyggerier.

"Netop fordi fejlslagen arkitektur kan få så uhyggelige perspektiver, er det vigtigt, at vi ikke bare bukker og nejer for en stemning eller en bygherre, men at vi som stand lytter til det, som stedet byder på og nøje overvejer, hvordan vi bedst kan lægge noget til dét, der allerede findes," konstaterer Jens Thomas Arnfred.

Sammen med tre af sine kolleger har han kastet sig ud i opgaven at tegne et hus på ca. 5.300 m2 på Carlsberg. Huset skal rumme cirka 25 pct. erhverv og 75 pct. bolig. De har tegnet syv-otte forskellige forslag og skåret dem ud i skum. Indtil nu. Men der er lang vej endnu, før det endelige forslag står klar.

At deles om pladsen

Idealet for Vandkunsten ville være at bygge et hus, hvor beboerne rykkede tættere på hinanden. Arnfred vil gerne gøre op med den forestilling, at lykken ligger i en bolig på 160 m2 frem for i en bolig på 70 m2. Han ville ønske, at husets erhvervsdrivende ikke ville modsætte sig at skulle kante sig forbi en barnevogn i opgangen, eller at beboerne i stedet for 25 vaskemaskiner - én i hver bolig - ville kunne deles om to store industrimaskiner.

"Christian Cold arbejder med begrebet "shared space" i byrummet, hvilket jo betyder, at trafikanterne deles om pladsen. Det smukke ved det er, at når du ikke har nogen stadfæstede rettigheder, så gebærder du dig også anderledes hensynsfuldt," siger Jens Thomas Arnfred, som gerne så "shared space"-tanken ført helt ind i husene på Carlsberg.

Glæden over det brogede

Han håber og tror på, at samarbejdet mellem Vandkunsten og de to andre tegnestuer, som skal tegne i byggeafsnit 17 (Årstiderne og Henning Larsen Architects, red.) vil skabe flere "beåndede udsagn, som synger sammen".

"Jeg elsker, at Vandkunsten ikke skal tegne hele byggeafsnit 17, men at vi kun skal tegne et lille hus og danne et stemningsfuldt byrum sammen med andre arkitekter. Jeg glædes over det brogede - og Carlsberg rummer netop alle disse bygninger og anlæg, som vil sikre den sammensatte by. Det bliver fanme flot - jeg er sikker på, at det kommer til at lykkes, og jeg er sikker på, at det vil blive et løft og et tilskud til dette hjørne af Carlsberg og til Frederiksberg."

An interesting story off www.voresby.com (in Danish):

It all sounds good and promising. But if Vandkunsten has such sympathy for this dense project why the hell do they then themselves make a Kløvermarken plan with too wide roads and too many green areas between the houses even though there is a big green area right in the middle of the area?

It all sounds good and promising. But if Vandkunsten has such sympathy for this dense project why the hell do they then themselves make a Kløvermarken plan with too wide roads and too many green areas between the houses even though there is a big green area right in the middle of the area?

Two completely different (contextual) issues, I guess.

Two completely different (contextual) issues, I guess.

I know they are totally different projects, I just miss density in the Kløvermarken one, it looks suburban eventhough its a great and central location.

I know they are totally different projects, I just miss density in the Kløvermarken one, it looks suburban eventhough its a great and central location.

Agree, but if a dense project was chosen locals, DN etc. would have gone crazy and brought the project down. Politicians had to find a pragmatic balance - and that's why it ended up with this somewhat advanced, modernistic Ørestad solution.

Agree, but if a dense project was chosen locals, DN etc. would have gone crazy and brought the project down. Politicians had to find a pragmatic balance - and that's why it ended up with this somewhat advanced, modernistic Ørestad solution.

I just wish people who like the suburbs so much would fool around out there and we who like the city could get to fool around in here. I'm a dreamer I know. It just don't make sense that DN shall have any saying in as what goes on 4 min. from the City Square. Or that people who basically don't want to live in a city shall deprive others of the oportunity to do so. Well...hurray for Carlsberg and back to the topic!:rock:

I just wish people who like the suburbs so much would fool around out there and we who like the city could get to fool around in here. I'm a dreamer I know. It just don't make sense that DN shall have any saying in as what goes on 4 min. from the City Square. Or that people who basically don't want to live in a city shall deprive others of the oportunity to do so. Well...hurray for Carlsberg and back to the topic!:rock:

Sure, BTW, just posted an intersting article on some of these matters in the Copenhagen thread.

actually carlsberg city has 2 highrises at the moment... the Carlsberg HQ and that ugly residential thing that looks like a cigarrette...
Well, I think it's quite beautiful. But I haven't thought of it as a cigarette before, so maybe that's why ;-)

Well, I think it's quite beautiful. But I haven't thought of it as a cigarette before, so maybe that's why ;-)

Looking at your avatar - do you live there?

Looking at your avatar - do you live there?
No, unfortunately not. But I've always been quite fascinated by that particular building – I think it's quite charming and elegant in it's very own semi-industrial way. Can't really remember how it looked before the reconstruction/refurbishment back in the mid 90's though. But I guess it wasn't much of an eye pleaser then.

A brewery that fits into the city and helps develop, that is an awesome project. And I really like the architecture of the old brewery, those towers, less. I saw some breweries integrated in cities (St-Louis USA, Liège, Louvain, ...) I know what I am talking about, I come from the country of all beers (Belgium). Sorry danish guys, we have more than 700 kinds of beer in Belgium, not just one major... But I can really say "Cheers" for the project. A few modifications and it will be wonderful. This project will definitely make me come back to Copenhagen for a beer. ;)

I saw some breweries integrated in cities (St-Louis USA, Liège, Louvain, ...)

Do you have any links to those projects?

Sorry danish guys, we have more than 700 kinds of beer in Belgium, not just one major...

How ignorant.

Belgium: InterBev (#1)
Denmark: Carlsberg (#5)

I guess that's all there is to it, right? Not quite.

Denmark is so much more than just Carlsberg and Tuborg. In fact, Denmark houses over 530 breweries, leaving every other country on this planet in the dust in terms of total breweries vs. inhabitants.

Furthermore, experts recently claimed Denmark as the leading beer nation in the world.

Next time, get your facts straight, otherwise, great post.

Somehow I managed to miss this one: Acclaimed internationals VOGT Landscape Architects have been chosen as the primary consultants on all of the new squares and parks at Carlsberg (according to this site: http://rasmusbroennum.wordpress.com/)

VOGT are known for being "house" landscape architects for Herzog & de Meuron, and are behind e.g. the landscaping around the TATE Modern.

How ignorant.

Belgium: InterBev (#1)
Denmark: Carlsberg (#5)

I guess that's all there is to it, right? Not quite.

Denmark is so much more than just Carlsberg and Tuborg. In fact, Denmark houses over 530 breweries, leaving every other country on this planet in the dust in terms of total breweries vs. inhabitants.

Furthermore, experts recently claimed Denmark as the leading beer nation in the world.

Next time, get your facts straight, otherwise, great post.

Ignorant, but correct. How many varieties of beer does Denmark host? I am not competing for competing. I am not a big beer drinker, I am a good beer drinker. I prefer quality to quantity. And honestly, after travelling to different places in Europe and in the world, I can be proud that my country brew such different kinds of beer (for example: Pils, Stout, Kriek, Trappiste, Blond, Brown, Amber, Geuze, White beer, strong, bitter, sweet (up to 12% or light) among others) and they are exported all over the world, not only because Inbev is leader (Inbev has only about 10 kinds of brands from Belgium, it became a business thing, if you want true excellency in products, you have to look for other products: Orval, Chimay, Rochefort, etc.), simply because people come to taste a beer in Belgium. It became an art to drink a beer in a special glass adapted to your beer. There is a logical explanation to this in history: comes back to Romans but through ages has developped towards quality and different products!
In 1900, there was 3223 declared breweries in Belgium, after the2 WorldWars, this number dropped to 755 and nowadays, there are really around 100 real breweries. There is also internal competition on quality, not on quantity, we don't drink like Germans 1 liter of beer in 1 glass. ;) Ah, we also cook with beer (The famous "lapin à la bière" and we make cheese with beer too :)

If you go to Belgium, there are now beer markets where you find regularily novelties and new brews, with fruits, different cereals, different maturation ways,etc. And therefore we have plenty of different kinds of beer.

About micro-breweries (like you say you have in Denmark more then 700, I believe you), I cannot say in Belgium because nowadays, there is brewers academies and you see plenty of small cafés brewing their own beer... I could not tell you the exact number.

Hope I corrected accurately my first thread. We are proud of our beer industry with reason I believe, like we are proud of our fries and chocolate ;)
+other things more economical like one of the best price/quality/productivity country in the world ;) And the fact that we are happy to live in Belgium despite stupid politicians regularily speaking about our differences more than our common points... :bash:

So next time, when I go to Denmark, I will look for real small breweries to discover new products (I hope different than Tuborg and Carlsberg) and next time you go to Belgium, try a new beer... I believe you can come back more than 200 times to discover all of them :cheers:

Some dude is complaining about the high-rises now...

http://www.planogarkitektur.kk.dk/Byplanlægning/Lokalplanforslag/Carlsberg_II/Debatforum_Carlsberg_II/View.aspx?qid=9065&master=9065&parent=9065

I'm tired of hearing of those crazy wind conditions. I never been to a city where there is as much wind as in Copenhagen - doubt a few small and slender towers that don't even stand that close to each other will make any differences.

I'm tired of hearing of those crazy wind conditions. I never been to a city where there is as much wind as in Copenhagen - doubt a few small and slender towers that don't even stand that close to each other will make any differences.

Totally agree - and they wont. All wind studies show values (way) below critical.

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/9748/11643590rs8.png

Note that the mapping above is before the 9 high-rises found their final location - three of them have been moved around just a bit since resulting in even lower values.

It's funny how those people always stick to these arguments. I don't mind saying I like tall buildings so why can't they just say they hate them?

It would be so much easier for everybody to make dicissions that way.:ohno:

Wow amazing!!! :)

heh, i finally realised there's a pun in the "probably the best" thing :lol:

I have from time to time heard some rather loose rumors of the guys involved with "Kunsthal København" trying to get some of the aspiring younger architects for the upper A-list to participate in the competition. I didn't want to post names as long as I didn't have a credible source - now I have (at least for one of the names).

Well, they are trying to get Kazuyo Sejima/SANAA involved at Carlsberg. Now, that is amazing!

http://www.kopenhagen.dk/interviews/interviews/koebenhavn_kunsthal_kristoffer_lindhardt_weiss/

Their New Museum of Contemporary Art in NYC is one of my personal faves. Extremely complex architecture-wise (just take a look on their drawings at the current Louisiana exhibition on newly constructed museums).

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/9217/sejimanewmuseum01dw8.jpg

wow wow wow

i love sanaa! hope these rumors are not just rumors...

wow wow wow

i love sanaa! hope these rumors are not just rumors...

They are not - the guys of Kunsthal København are ACTIVELY trying to get SANAA involved in the forthcoming international competition.

I wonder which site at Carlsberg they are going for.

..

Sorry danish guys, we have more than 700 kinds

I prefer quality to quantity.

:lol:

If you're serious about visiting Denmark to discover real beer (and not the Carlsberg enzyme crap) booking a flight for September 12th - 14th (http://www.beerfestival.dk/?id=4465) might be a good idea.

Way to go ;)

Gives me idea to organize it also in Latvia, I have experience of organizing similar festivals in Belgium also for a while with non-profit organizations... :cheers:

Vandkunsten Architects have revealed their initial studies and ideas on their building for the first phase of construction at Carlsberg - various facade solutions etc.

http://www.vandkunsten.com/public_site/webroot/cache/article/file/Carlsbergworkshop02_mail.pdf

Here are the four, various facade solutions being considered so far:

1.
http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/5733/workshop0211ih1.jpg
2.
http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/9836/workshop0212mb6.jpg
3.
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/9282/workshop0213uy5.jpg
4.
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/6416/workshop0214fu5.jpg

Being more of a minimalist myself I definitely prefer solution no. 4.

^^

The last picture in the pdf, the black inspirational one is that a house in Copenhagen? It's really cool!

^^

The last picture in the pdf, the black inspirational one is that a house in Copenhagen? It's really cool!

I came across that building as very interesting too, sadly, however, it is in London (I think). Definitely not CPH.

BTW: If you all look a bit closer on the first page of the PDF, it is also possible to get a glimpse on the initial design of Årstiderne Architects' building. Looks pretty cool volume-wise IMO.

This project, like most of the other projects in Copenhagen, will probably not materialize.
The typical Copenhagener (young or single or low income family) can't afford it, and the middle-income families with children will continue to move to the suburbs for a house with a garden.
The group of people who have bought the new housing projects (early 30's, no or one kid) will drop by 20% in the coming years.
For the commercial part, employment in DK is right now at an all-time high, and will drop, as the age distribution changes.
The closing down of projects that we are seeing right now, it not just a short-term market thing, but a reflection of the city's and developers inability to fulfil what people (the market) wants. The mindset that build the ghettos in 60' and 70' lingers on.

..

Welcome to the forum! Interesting arguments. When you refer to "this project" do you mean Carlsberg Vores By in general or the particular sub-projects described previously in the thread?


Did you notice that some of the ground level flats in the "Flintholm Have" project have actually been equiped with small gardens?

Take a look at this plan (http://www.flintholmhave.dk/rumplan/16.swf) for an example.

It will be interesting to see if Herzog + Meuron will incorporate something similar into their project for "magnet residences" (http://www.berlingske.dk/article/20070916/bolig/109151227/) in the same area.

Personally, I can't stand the look of a hundred little parcelled gardens each the size of a stamp and fenced in with hedges (for an example, look here (http://politiken.dk/wm/article543022.ece)). To me it epitomises the inefficiency of the "each man for himself" mentality in the same fashion as does the idea of private car ownership.

I think concepts like car sharing and communal parks / garden spaces are much more sympathetic. For an example of a communal park / garden space that is in my view much more interesting than having a crappy little garden of 50 sqm full of Iberian snails, Roundup, trampolins and pirate flags take a look at the natural playing ground "Himmelhøj (http://www.orestad.dk/himmelhoj)", the nature centre Vestamager (http://www.skovognatur.dk/Lokalt/Hovedstaden/Naturcenter/) (both of these are coincidentally located next to Ørestad Syd), Ørestad's Mobile Organic Gardens (http://www.dr.dk/Regioner/Kbh/Nyheder/Andet/2006/04/11/132504.htm), Christiania (http://www.christiania.org/) or the playground at Christiansholms Mose (http://www.gentofte.dk/Teknik_miljoe_og_bolig/Groenne_omraader/Legepladser/Legepladsguide/Legeplads_i_Christiansholms_Mose.aspx). I am sure that some of the organic villages that have sprung up around the countryside also feature some very interesting concepts of communal garden spaces but I don't have the time to do the research on that right now. The experimental village Hesbjerg might be an example?

And as for greenery and parks in, Carlsberg has probably the best location in Copenhagen. Within minutes there's Vestre Kirkegård which is ino the most charming and enchanted green area in Copenhagen (and the only place to get lost), the Sixable Søndermarken with lots of huge lawns and the lovely Frederiksberg Have whit even more lawns (as well as Haveforeningens Have and the Zoo). Plus the Carlsberg site holds within its own premisses two gardens dating from the founding of the brewery app. 1850 as well of a multitude og new squares which are supposed to have a green and lush profile (at least some of them) and with focus on an active and varied urban lige. But of course it is not a private garden.

..

^^BTW: Thomas Herzog is not the Herzog of Herzog & de Meuron (sadly:))

This project, like most of the other projects in Copenhagen, will probably not materialize.
The typical Copenhagener (young or single or low income family) can't afford it, and the middle-income families with children will continue to move to the suburbs for a house with a garden.
The group of people who have bought the new housing projects (early 30's, no or one kid) will drop by 20% in the coming years.
For the commercial part, employment in DK is right now at an all-time high, and will drop, as the age distribution changes.
The closing down of projects that we are seeing right now, it not just a short-term market thing, but a reflection of the city's and developers inability to fulfil what people (the market) wants. The mindset that build the ghettos in 60' and 70' lingers on.

Welcome to the forum!

There is one important aspect missing here: The continous movement of people from the country-side to the city. Though we do not talk about this much anymore, it is a development that is still ongoing in Denmark.

And luckily not all families with kids hold an ambition of moving to Greve for a garden to take care of. Things are much more complicated these days.

And as for greenery and parks in, Carlsberg has probably the best location in Copenhagen. Within minutes there's Vestre Kirkegård which is ino the most charming and enchanted green area in Copenhagen (and the only place to get lost), the Sixable Søndermarken with lots of huge lawns and the lovely Frederiksberg Have whit even more lawns (as well as Haveforeningens Have and the Zoo). Plus the Carlsberg site holds within its own premisses two gardens dating from the founding of the brewery app. 1850 as well of a multitude og new squares which are supposed to have a green and lush profile (at least some of them) and with focus on an active and varied urban lige. But of course it is not a private garden.

Thanks knilaus - Yes Carlsberg

Maybe (I think Krimsvej is better) - that is why I say "probably" - projects like Christiansberg (Grønttorvet) and Vandkunsten's new winning proposal for Ny Ellebjerg are, with their hopeless locations and high density (150 and 176), far worse off. There are so many similar projects!


Vestre Kirkegård is not that much used (I have lived beside it for 35 years). Søndermarken somewhat more, but it is mostly runners and the dog people. Fact is, most of the 'real' users of the Copenhagen parks are young people. I am not arguing against young peoples preference for central CPH.

Most people (who are past 35, with or without kids) who live in appartments in CPH buy a kolonihave or summer cottage and spend the summer there, instead of taking a walk in the park. You just can't substitute one for the other. Another important aspect is of course the possibility to shape your own dwelling.

Problem is, if you buy a new appartment, you can't afford a cottage also. So you buy a house instead (which is cheaper than the apartment anyway).

Just one example to illustrate the preferences of people:

When the Frederiksberg Municipality decided to tear down some row-houses at Flintholm, there where bitter protests from the tenants.

When it was decided to tear down the high-rises in Rødovre, who protested ? (answer: none)

^^Some of the points above are wrong, but that's another story. I agree with most of the essence - that is that many of the planned and huge developments around Copenhagen will be hard to sell and fill as things look right now structurally (both short and long term). I am also concerned with especially Christiansberg, Ny Ellebjerg, large parts of Kløvermarken, Valby Idrætspark and - here I have to be focused on not hurting knilaus - Ørestad Syd.

At some point we will have to look at our tight immigration laws - but that's a whole, different ball game.

I still think the plans for Calrsberg are so qualitatively unique, that this project wont be so exposed to these structural challenges. But we can't know for sure.

..

Whoops! Thanks for correcting me in that regard. I had no idea. It turns out that the Herzog of Herzog + Meuron is indeed called Jacques Herzog, whereas the Herzog I was referring to is the Prof. Thomas Herzog of Herzog + Partner.

Well at least I didn't get him confused with Werner Herzog..

Still it is a good project happening at Flintholm. I really hope that we will see Herzog & de Meuron appearing at some point in Copenhagen. The city deserves their architecture. Could Carlsberg be a good guess for a future H&deM project?

Welcome to the forum!

There is one important aspect missing here: The continous movement of people from the country-side to the city. Though we do not talk about this much anymore, it is a development that is still ongoing in Denmark.

And luckily not all families with kids hold an ambition of moving to Greve for a garden to take care of. Things are much more complicated these days.

Plus the time span for the project is pretty lonmg and in the coming years we will probably - and hopefully - se a much higher influx of highly educated labour from other countris (with general globilazation, better green card regimes etc, lack of skilled labour in key sectors). Carlsberg has all the qualities such ex-pats will be after: Central location, culturally active environment, good place to get to know your neighbours, no interest in gardens and hedges. U think their will be a disporportionately high number of white-collar immigrants (addung even more to the diversity and vibe of the area).

..

^^Basically I have nothing more to add to what I have previously posted with regard to my concerns on Ørestad Syd. End of story.

Plus the time span for the project is pretty lonmg and in the coming years we will probably - and hopefully - se a much higher influx of highly educated labour from other countris (with general globilazation, better green card regimes etc, lack of skilled labour in key sectors). Carlsberg has all the qualities such ex-pats will be after: Central location, culturally active environment, good place to get to know your neighbours, no interest in gardens and hedges. U think their will be a disporportionately high number of white-collar immigrants (addung even more to the diversity and vibe of the area).

Nach dem Aufstand des 17. Juni
Ließ der Sekretär des Schriftstellerverbands
In der Stalinallee Flugblätter verteilen
Auf denen zu lesen war, daß das Volk
Das Vertrauen der Regierung verscherzt habe
Und es nur durch verdoppelte Arbeit
zurückerobern könne. Wäre es da
Nicht doch einfacher, die Regierung
Löste das Volk auf und
Wählte ein anderes?

[Brecht, Die Lösung]

A little off-topic and yesterday news:

Carlsberg 2nd-quarter earnings up 68 pct, shares jump
COPENHAGEN, Aug 5 (Reuters) - Danish brewer Carlsberg A/S posted a larger-than-expected 68 percent rise in second-quarter operating profit on solid growth in Asia and eastern Europe, prompting its biggest share gain in eight years.

Earnings before interest and taxes (EBIT) excluding special items reached 3.2 billion Danish crowns ($669 million), up from a proforma 1.9 billion a year earlier and above the 2.6 billion expected on average in a Reuters poll of analysts.

"Despite increases in (raw material) prices, Carlsberg is increasing volume and winning market share in most of our markets," Chief Executive Jorgen Rasmussen told a conference call on Tuesday.

By 1100 GMT, shares in the world's fifth-biggest brewer were 14.1 percent higher at 433.50 crowns, notching up the biggest intraday gain since August 2000. The stock had fallen to a two- year low before the figures and touched its highest in three weeks.

"Some have been worried about market development in Russia, but these apprehensions have been put to rest by the results because the Russian numbers look good," said Nordea analyst Michael Hybholt.

Elsewhere in the sector Heineken (other-otc: HINKY.PK - news - people ) shares rose 4.2 percent to 31.72 euros and InBev gained 4.3 percent to 45.29 euros.

Analyst Matthew Webb at Cazenove said the results were well ahead of expectations and with 2008 guidance reassuring and medium-term targets aggressive, Carlsberg remains his top pick in the sector.

Carlsberg, which this year hooked up with Dutch peer Heineken to buy Britain's Scottish & Newcastle (S&N) for 7.8 billion pounds ($15.4 billion), said it saw underlying 2008 operating profit growing to around 5.9 billion crowns.

In 2007, the brewer's profit came in at 5.3 billion.

Including the S&N acquisition, 2008 operating earnings are expected to top 8.1 billion, with net profit of 3.0 billion.

CROWN JEWEL

The S&N deal secured Carlsberg all of fast-growing eastern European venture Baltic Beverages Holding, including control of its crown jewel, top Russian brewer Baltika.

Carlsberg shares trade at about 13 times estimated 2008 earnings, on a par with price/earnings multiples of competitors Inbev, SABMiller and Heineken, according to Reuters data.

"We see the company as having the best earnings growth rate within the European beer sector for the next three years with an average of nearly 16 percent per annum," said Lehman Brothers (nyse: LEH - news - people ) analyst Ian Shackleton.

Carlsberg said market share in Russia edged up to 38.1 percent in the first half from 37.6 percent a year earlier. The Russian market, up 2.4 percent in the half, was on track for 5 percent growth this year, Chief Executive Jorgen Rasmussen said.

"Yes market growth has come down this year compared to last year, but overall Russia is a growth engine," Rasmussen told Reuters.

"We are doing well and I believe we can keep growing market share step by step. It is a very profitable market, so the total contribution from Russia to Carlsberg's performance and business is extremely important," he said.

Shackleton estimates Russia will account for 50 percent of Carlsberg profits.

The Danish group, which brews beer under its own name as well as the Tuborg, Baltika and Kronenbourg brands, said growth markets in eastern Europe and Asia remained strong despite consumer uncertainty and higher prices for key inputs such as malting barley and aluminium.

The company anticipates organic sales growth of about 10 percent this year. Combined with sales from acquired activities, this is expected to give it net revenue of 62 billion crowns to 63 billion. (Additional reporting by Rasmus Jorgensen; Editing by David Jones and David Holmes)
Source (http://www.forbes.com/reuters/feeds/reuters/2008/08/05/2008-08-05T114638Z_01_L5546658_RTRIDST_0_CARLSBERG-UPDATE-3.html)

Nach dem Aufstand des 17. Juni
Ließ der Sekretär des Schriftstellerverbands
In der Stalinallee Flugblätter verteilen
Auf denen zu lesen war, daß das Volk
Das Vertrauen der Regierung verscherzt habe
Und es nur durch verdoppelte Arbeit
zurückerobern könne. Wäre es da
Nicht doch einfacher, die Regierung
Löste das Volk auf und
Wählte ein anderes?

[Brecht, Die Lösung]
Sie sollten Ihren Übersetzer auf Englisch einstellen :yes:

baah ich verstehe nichts!

..

Sorry about the german - I am from those ancient times when you had to learn it in elementary school - and sometimes I just get desperate about the monopoly of english language and culture.

Sorry about the german - I am from those ancient times when you had to learn it in elementary school - and sometimes I just get desperate about the monopoly of english language and culture.

Allons dernier des poètes,
Toujours enfermé tu te rendras malade !
Vois, il fait beau temps, tout le monde est dehors,
Va donc acheter deux sous d’ellébore,
Ça te fera une petite promenade…

EDIT: Freely translated: Lets go for a walk, you last of poets, always locked inside you will become ill. It is actually beautiful times outside and everybody else is out there, Go down and buy a bit of tobacco that will will get you a bit of fresh air.

Sorry for participing in the off topic non-english ramblings but I think Jules Laforgye here makes an excellent suggestion to all the nimby's out there who need to get more outside and in contact with the real world and realize that it is in fact not that evil and scary but pretty darned exciting aonce you accept change not as just an other misserable feature of human life but someting positive to thrive for.

Allons dernier des poètes,
Toujours enfermé tu te rendras malade !
Vois, il fait beau temps, tout le monde est dehors,
Va donc acheter deux sous d’ellébore,
Ça te fera une petite promenade…

Obrigado Ramblersen !

Article on Årstiderne Arkitekters involvement in phase 1 of the Carlsberg development. Not much substance to it - mainly the usual buzwords about respecting the herritage etc - but anyway here goes...

http://www.voresby.com/nyheder/65/ny-nabo-til-elefantporten/

It is a really central and visible site they have got, weird Carlsberg didn't find someone more exciting. But I guess the transformation of Silkeborg Papirfabrik into a new quarter which they stood for and which got Byplanprisen last year mat have played a role.

Just for your information – there will be a citizen meeting at Carlsberg regarding the development of the area. The meeting will be held August the 26 from 18.00-21.00. Mayors Ritt Bjerregaard and Klaus Bondam and architect Christian Cold will participate. See the invitation here http://www.voresby.com/data/file/borgermoede_carlsberg.pdf

Did anyone participate in the meeting? I wasn't able to do so, but if anyone did, please tell how it went.

Don't think this has been posted here before:
http://www.cphx.dk/?#168605
...Carlsberg movin out. It's a pretty old video but still facinating!

..

Haha...I just to be called that in the 10th grade (Efterskole)...:lol:

Was at a meeting in Valby lokalråd last night, and there was great concern about the massive increase in traffic the Carlberg project and others in and around Valby will cause. It seems that the concern is shared by Carlsberg (wants to remain on friendly terms with the neighbours) and the officials in the kommune. The one that don't is Mr Bondam himself: "when there is progress, some people get hurt"

^^

What you are saying is: People in Valby and Carlsberg themselves don't like the increase in traffic, so therefore the projekt must be scaled down or completely droped. But Bondam doesn't want that because he is an evil man.:)

^^

What you are saying is: People in Valby and Carlsberg themselves don't like the increase in traffic, so therefore the projekt must be scaled down or completely droped. But Bondam doesn't want that because he is an evil man.:)

The short answer is : Yes - but can you not accept other views without putting words into my mouth ('evil'). The word's are Bondam's own.

..

I want more updates from this project! I think this project is much more exciting than the Ørestad project! :)

..

..

^^

I couldn't help it. I sooo disired!!!

The music-oriented Sankt Annæ highschool is interested in moving to Carlsberg. It will, however, demand 4-500 mio. kr. of private funding. The architect firm Cebra has drawn up a 26.000 m2 conceptual project but if the money are found and things go ahead, there will be an architecture competition.
A conceptual sketch deom Cebra:

http://www.voresby.com/data/image/artikler/skt_annaeSTOR.JPG

Link with more renderings:
http://www.voresby.com/nyheder/75/sankt-annae-gymnasium-vil-bo-pa-carlsberg/

..

Thanks for the news ramblersen. Smart move from Carlsberg or Sankt Annæ or both. No doubt institutions like these will help to bring life and urban vibe to the new borough. Is it possible perhaps that Carlsberg have taken a look at Ørestad and found that one of the things that work well out there is the high school?

Regarding the rendering - it's hard to tell from one rendering only of course but I think it looks a little mediocre and a bit too close to the Elephant port for my liking but I'm sure I'll grow on the design once I see some more elaborate renderings.

There are more renderings in the link though they don't provide that much more to go on. I don't like the looks of it either. It looks pretty 70's I rhink (don't like those round holes) but I ghuess that is kind of the style they are going for in the entire development of the area. But since it's only conceptual and there's going to be a competition, I guess they haven't put too much effort into it.

Thanks for the news ramblersen. Smart move from Carlsberg or Sankt Annæ or both. No doubt institutions like these will help to bring life and urban vibe to the new borough. Is it possible perhaps that Carlsberg have taken a look at Ørestad and found that one of the things that work well out there is the high school?

Regarding the rendering - it's hard to tell from one rendering only of course but I think it looks a little mediocre and a bit too close to the Elephant port for my liking but I'm sure I'll grow on the design once I see some more elaborate renderings.

So the idea to move 1 km, to a site that is approx. half the size of the current site (which is 28000 sq m) and spend kr 500 mill kr. Build a swimming hall (there is one around the corner), build a concert hall (Vega is around the corner, and with plans to expand, the Radio Sym. Orchestra will have left their old hall, and moved to Ørestad).
I would like to see the foundation who will spend money on that project - but then Realdania has a few billions up their sleve.
The move is must likely triggered by snobism, the current location at Sjælør Bouldevard is not very posh for the middle/upperclass segment of the school.

But of course I could be wrong, the location at Carlsberg might produce better violin players.

And 'Campus' ? Some of the pupils will be 6 years old.

So the idea to move 1 km, to a site that is approx. half the size of the current site (which is 28000 sq m) and spend kr 500 mill kr. Build a swimming hall (there is one around the corner), build a concert hall (Vega is around the corner, and with plans to expand, the Radio Sym. Orchestra will have left their old hall, and moved to Ørestad).
I would like to see the foundation who will spend money on that project - but then Realdania has a few billions up their sleve.
The move is must likely triggered by snobism, the current location at Sjælør Bouldevard is not very posh for the middle/upperclass segment of the school.

But of course I could be wrong, the location at Carlsberg might produce better violin players.

And 'Campus' ? Some of the pupils will be 6 years old.

So now 26.000 sqm is half of 28.000 sqm?:nuts: If it is the area of the lot you're talking about, it's hardly relevant. And in a time where the media are full of stories about the state of Copenhagen schools and the lack of renovation of them, it's negative when someone want to make modern, well-functioning frames for pupils? It's negative to want them to have inspiring surroundings and to give them the opportinity to interact with the rest of the cultural environment in the area? You don't think a more attractive and vissible Sankt Annæ High School can be instrumental in the future recruiting of candidates for a part of the cultural scene that is under preassure? You think it is wrong to have the ambition to make a big new quarter of the city a vibrant and lively one? Funny because when new areas are dead and making them lively, happening places hasn't been thought of, THAT is the problem (and with much more justice).

Such a move has obvious, big and legitimate adventages for both the school and the Carlsberg development and wheather it's worth the 500 mio. is what the relevant parties are going to find out. But there is no need to see it as mere snobbery. I really don't get people like you who has to see something negative in everything You should read that Verlaine quotation I posted earlier in this thread specially for you again. And take a small stroll and realize that the sun is shining and that everybody's outside. There's no need to be so miffed all the time. But the thing is that you just don't like the overall project and the fact that it disturbs your sleapy, provincial Valby setting. But if such are your priorities, do feel free to move to Præstø. The city should be for people who like the city and this is five minutes from the City Hall Square.

That said, I think it would be even better with an international school/high school there. Copenhagen could use better international schools. It would be instrumental in attracting and keeping foreign, highly educated labour as well as international institutions (such as the ambitions of more UN employees in Nordhavn) and companies. And it would add a nice vibe to the area.

So the idea to move 1 km, to a site that is approx. half the size of the current site (which is 28000 sq m) and spend kr 500 mill kr. Build a swimming hall (there is one around the corner), build a concert hall (Vega is around the corner, and with plans to expand, the Radio Sym. Orchestra will have left their old hall, and moved to Ørestad).
I would like to see the foundation who will spend money on that project - but then Realdania has a few billions up their sleve.
The move is must likely triggered by snobism, the current location at Sjælør Bouldevard is not very posh for the middle/upperclass segment of the school.

But of course I could be wrong, the location at Carlsberg might produce better violin players.

And 'Campus' ? Some of the pupils will be 6 years old.

Some of us like to see the city grow. Especially in nice areas like Carlsberg. That's why we're in this forum, sharing the dream.

Some of us like to see the city grow. Especially in nice areas like Carlsberg. That's why we're in this forum, sharing the dream.

By draining other areas of life ?

By draining other areas of life ?

Sjælør Boulevard isn't the liveliest of places, you know. So to answer your question yeas:

a) by draining other areas that aren't lively and attractive human settings anyhow.

b) by draining other areas that will be lively all the same.

c) Even more important, it's a question of creating life. You can have cities of equal sizes and one is buzzling and lively, the other totally dead. I'd rather live in the former.

d) by thrieving for growth. And true, if growth doesn't come from a baby boom it will neccesarily mean draining other areas of life/people. This can be people from other places in Denmark or people from abroad like highly educated people from Poland, India, Americans fleeing the financial crisis or antwhere else. But is this wrong? Should we not try to create an attractive city (and society) in fear of draing other places of life? If Copenhagen grows, it is because people choose to come to live here (those who think Kolding is a better dwelling place is not and that is perfectly okay). Is it wrong to try to creative as attactive a human settings as possible and give people a choise as to what they want? If people don't want the fair that Copenhagen has to offer, they won't come. But growth is a positive and totally valid ambition for a city. Claiming otherwise would be like not applying for a job because it might mean that someone else didn't get it.

But what exactly is it you want? That we create inhuman, desolate areas so we don't risk taking anything from anyone?

I actually spoke to a friend of mine about this a few weeks ago, only we imagened the carlsberg by as a place for Metropolitanskolen, when they (most likely) merge with Øster Borgerdyd and will probably need new digs...I was going to ask here, if anyone knew of any concrete plans for a high school in the city, but I forgot about it again...

..

Perhaps they'll be snapped up by Nordhavnen then :)

If they are moving at all. I dont know. It was just one of those arguments of thought...

After doing some digging, which I probably should have done, in the first place, I found this article (http://www.borgerdyd.kk.dk/Om%20%C3%98B/Nyt%20gymnasium%20i%20moderne%20rammer.aspx), indicating that they have already found the location for this school, which will be at Øster Voldgade 10, owned by Copenhagen University and the curent location of Geocenter Danmark and GEUS.

http://geocenter.dk/grafik/fak01-2.gif

So basicly, not far from the current location of Øster Borgerdyd. Just across the park actually...

Sjælør Boulevard isn't the liveliest of places, you lnow. So to answer your question yeas:

a) by draining other areas that aren't lively and attractive human settings anyhow.

b) by draining other areas that will be lively all the same.

c) Even more important, it's a question of creating life. You can have cities of equal sizes and one is buzzling and lively, the other thtally dead. I'd rather live in the former.

d) by thrieving for growth. And true, if growth doesn't come from a baby boom it will neccesarily mean draining other areas of life/people. This can be people from other places in Denmark or people from abroad like highly educated people from Poland, India, Americans fleeing the financial crisis or antwhere else. But is this wrong? Should we not try to create an attractive city (and society) in fear of draing other places of life? If Copenhagen grows, it is because people choose to come to live here (those who think Kolding is a better dwelling place is not and that is perfectly okay). Is it wrong to try to creative as attactive a human settings as possible and give people a choise as to what they want? If people don't want the fair that Copenhagen has to offer, they won't come. But growth is a positive and totally valid ambition for a city. Claiming otherwise would be like not applying for a job because it might mean that someone else didn't get it.

But what exactly is it you want? That we create inhuman, desolate areas so we don't risk taking anything from anyone?

Could you not argue that spending 500 mill. kr on this project is not the best way to improve our city ? Valby is a low income area where 40000 people dont even have public swimming hall. Public spending in the Vesterbro area has been without precedence for the last 40 years. (+5 billion)
The fact is that living conditions for the average Copenhagener has been deterioating for the last 50 years compared to the rest of the country. The challenge is first of all to improve the existing city, instead of just building new. This is much more difficult because of legal og economical barriers.
Focusing the effort on the wet dreams of bubble era is easy.

Entasis seems to have been asked to design yet another building at Carlsberg according to their website (http://www.entasis.dk).

And as you have been able to read off here (http://www.voresby.com/nyheder/76/indsigelse-fra-carlsberg-ejendomme-til-lokalplanen/), Carlsberg Properties has themselves handed in a formal opposition on their own plans and asked that some of the towers be moved in order to meet concerns from neighbours.

..

The proposal for the localplan at Carlsberg, including a additional hearing regarding the location of the nine highrises, is now publised at "Center for Bydesign". The hearing will end at Dec. 3. See the plan here (http://www.planogarkitektur.kk.dk/Byplanl%C3%A6gning/Lokalplanforslag/Carlsberg_II.aspx).

Link doesn't work.

Link doesn't work.
http://www.planogarkitektur.kk.dk/Byplanl%C3%A6gning/Lokalplanforslag/Carlsberg_II.aspx :)

Approval of the local plan for the Carlsberg district has been postponed until Hanuary 29 2009. The politicians need more time.

http://www.voresby.com/nyheder/85/endelig-vedtagelse-af-lokalplanen-rykket/

I haven't noticed this video before and I don't think a link has been posted. Bothing new in it I guess but interesting all the same.

http://www.voresby.com/123/

Nice video! Someone should send it to Oslo kommune :p

Thanks for the video...:yes:
Damn Ørestaden got dissed in it :uh:

Thanks for the video...:yes:
Damn Ørestaden got dissed in it :uh:
Heh very! But I agree all the commie blocks are not beautiful, but the towers planned are going to make an awesome skyline. But people have to live somewher?

Why don't they build some "normal" houses?

http://www.voresby.com/123/Nice video but DAMN I hate the Danish accent :(

And poor Ørestad, while I agree to a lot of the thing they critizise it for, it's still a bit much as the area isn't done yet

Thanks for the video...:yes:
Damn Ørestaden got dissed in it :uh:

I must be crazy like living in Ørestad :) He forgets to tell that only 50 % of Ørestad has been build and the heart (Ørestad Downtown) is still missing.

I must be crazy like living in Ørestad :) He forgets to tell that only 50 % of Ørestad has been build and the heart (Ørestad Downtown) is still missing.
Yeah plus 3 CPH Towers, 2 ØBC towers, Bella Center hotels, Fields etc.

Carlsberg is going to be awesome, but so is Ørestad.

Yeah plus 3 CPH Towers, 2 ØBC towers, Bella Center hotels, Fields etc.


And a golf course.... something Carlsberg can't beat :)

/Nicolaj

And a golf course.... something Carlsberg can't beat :)

/Nicolaj
Hehe also that :)

Carlsberg is going to be awesome, but so is Ørestad.Yeah hopefully a little attention conpetition could spark some eye catching projects in the future..

They might as well face it, the area that has the greatest and tallest buildings will get the most attention no matter how it is a streetlevel..

Just look at New York compared to London or Paris..

^^
Attention in what way? :dunno:

My theory is that if we end up with a scenario where the Ørestand and Carsberg ends up "fighting" over media and public attention then that might spark some highrise competition as that is the most attention graping buildings we have ( and most controversial ) hence media coverage creating :)


Just like both Paris and London was forced to create high rise commercial centers despite lacking neither office space or room to expand with their normal building culture..



Long live phallus symbols :D

My theory is that if we end up with a scenario where the Ørestand and Carsberg ends up "fighting" over media and public attention then that might spark some highrise competition as that is the most attention graping buildings we have ( and most controversial ) hence media coverage creating :)


Just like both Paris and London was forced to create high rise commercial centers despite lacking neither office space or room to expand with their normal building culture..



Long live phallus symbols :D
But that crazy 85 m. limit sure doesn't help a lot.

Ï pretty sure Carlsberg beat Ørestand easily :D

^how so?
But that crazy 85 m. limit sure doesn't help a lot.No sadly not - but is that also in affect in Valby/Carlsberg?

I was under the understanding that we'll get atleast one 100m in Carlsberg :dunno:


I still don't understand why they don't shut down the west facing runway and make another one that ( along with it's radars ) won't limit the city it's servicing..

We have water on more than 65% of the inflight area around the airport, it can't be that hard to make another that doesn't limit the city..

The funny thing is that the Cold couple has made the Ørestad Syd planning.

But when Audi is constructing a new car, they don't start with criticizing BMW’s model, they believe in their own model and concept. Cold uses a couple of minutes standing on a construction site on Amager, how about concentrating on his own model.

^how so?
No sadly not - but is that also in affect in Valby/carsberg?

I was under the understanding that we'll get atleast one 100m in Carslberg :dunno:


I still don't understand why they don't shut down the west facing runway and make another one that ( along with it's radars ) won't limit the city it's servicing..
Yeah some 120 and 100 m. towers in the Carlsberg. But it would be great with the 70-85 m. towers planned, and when they in the future realise the airport isn't a problem, we get 100 m, 120 m and 140 m. towers and a more variated skyline. A guy can dream, can't he?

The funny thing is that the Cold couple has made the Ørestad Syd planning.

But when Audi is constructing a new car, they don't start with criticizing BMW’s model, they believe in their own model and concept. Cold uses a couple of minutes standing on a construction site on Amager, how about concentrating on his own model.
Excactly but that's also how Apple is advertising, and that method has been proven right many times, but it's not pretty.

I'm not sure to what extent this is new but Vilhelm Lauritzen Arkitekter is redesigning an flour silo in the centre of the Carlsberg District into offices and consider moving into the to top floors themselves.

Not much to be seen from the drawing but shops in the ground floor and possibly vintage tiles and cortin steel for the facade.

http://voresby.com/data/image/artikler/17_4_stor.JPG
http://voresby.com/nyheder/86/fra-silo-til-baeredygtigt-kontorhus/

Article on the plans for 'Ny Tap' in national daily Politiken.

http://ibyen.dk/gadeplan/article632485.ece

Does anyone know if the local plan for the Carlsberg area was adopted yesterday as planned or what th status is?

^^According to www.voresby.com the district plan was adopted with a huge majority.

Great news, especially that so many parties supports the plan.

I simply love the Carlsberg movie. Granted, it's very biased (of course), but they mention all the things I want in "my" architecture, and the things I most find myself complaining about with modern development - like many places in Ørestaden. For instance the closed facade instead of open at the bottom of buildings. It's SO much nicer to be in an area if you have shops, cafés and such at the bottom of buildings. Even at educational facilities and such. I think newer Danish architecture could learn a lot from (better) American architecture.

So very excited about the Carlsberg district :)

http://borsen.dk/investor/nyhed/151621/

^^and: Link (http://www.lorry.dk/moduler/nyheder/showregvideo.asp?dato=20-02-2009&cID=1&vId=470393)

Sorry about the german - I am from those ancient times when you had to learn it in elementary school - and sometimes I just get desperate about the monopoly of english language and culture.

If your mother tongue caused the linguistic "monopoly," I am sure that you would overlook that with a heatbeat! What a pathetic antics.

There is now a new summary available here (http://www.voresby.com/126/dialogmoder/) off the latest dialogue meeting at Carlsberg. Interesting to read.

There is now a new summary available here (http://www.voresby.com/126/dialogmoder/) off the latest dialogue meeting at Carlsberg. Interesting to read.
Very interesting reading. Do you have pictures of the 3D model, Fab5?

edited

There is now a new summary available here (http://www.voresby.com/126/dialogmoder/) off the latest dialogue meeting at Carlsberg. Interesting to read.

Spørgsmål: Det ligner en ø uden grønt areal?

For God's sake...that section is a tiny part of the project and includes both a public garden and a aquare. The Carlsberg site includes two historic gardens. Just across Valby Langgade/Pile Allé you've got the 32,3 hectares Søndermarkenhectares that is continous with the 31,7 hectares Frederiksberg Have and just on the other side of the railway tracks abot to minutes walk from the carlsberg site you've got Denmarks's largest cemetary, the 54 hectares Vestre Kirkegård which to a large ectent serves as a green space too. This gives a total of 118 hectares just for the three big ones. If the building section appears like an island, it appears like an island in a sea of parkland! Is it HTAT hard to find something to complain about?:nuts:

Very interesting reading. Do you have pictures of the 3D model, Fab5?

Nope - but we can hope for Carlsberg Properties to make the model available online at some point.

I like this one:

JMA: Du rører ved et meget centralt element i planen for Carlsberg. På Vesterbro er der kæmpestore gårdrum mellem bygningerne, men man har kun adgang med en nøgle. Her på stedet har vi presset de private gårdrum til fordel for byrummene, som er tilgængelige for alle. Hvis man vil grille og lave picnic på Carlsberg, bliver det i fælles grønne områder.


Hope they will succeed with this approach. I find it sympathetic.

BTW: Also seems af it they have updated the visuals.

Found this skyline picture:

http://peecee.dk/uploads/022009/090119_soeerne_big_thumb.jpg
click for full size (http://peecee.dk/uploads/022009/090119_soeerne.jpg)

While we wait for Carlsberg to get started, Hitman has visited the Carlsberg premises.

http://www.voresby.com/nyheder/97/forste-byggeafsnit-i-3d/

I don't think it looks too impressive what they have come up with. Too much uselesss greenery here and there, too many paths insted of proper alleys and passageways. I understand that they want to make dark and rather discrete/conservate buildings that suit the historical ones but this looks a bit too much like fairly boring buildings randomly scattered instead of something with a proper urban vibe. I for one don't sense the hand of a famous Swiss landscape architect, "Industrikulturens Plads" certainly don't seem like a modern Cph. version of Place de Vosque, Kultorvet or even Skydebanehaven to me - which is the kind of intimacy I would love to see characterizing the area. Hmm but I guess it's not that bad either, I should probably get some coffee...

The former bottling facility Tap E (no idea what a 'tappehal' is called in English) us already under reconstruction into a venue for modern dance and due to be finished medio August. The building?

http://www.dansehallerne.dk/upload/opslag/4.jpg

http://www.voresby.com/nyheder/102/premiere-pa-store-carl/
http://www.dansehallerne.dk/side.asp?side=2

On another note, I really don't like the looks of this picture. The building doesn't fit in at all and it goes to close to the Diptylon Gate, thay should keep the wall that is there now or something similar:

http://www.voresby.com/data/image/artikler/Artikler%202009/mand%20ved%20vlasilo.JPG

Perhaps this is better (http://www.vlark.dk/)

Perhaps this is better (http://www.vlark.dk/)

Certainly...thank you,.

Now if I ask for a 300 metre tower on Sydhavstippen, will you get me one?:)

Certainly...thank you,.

Now if I ask for a 300 metre tower on Sydhavstippen, will you get me one?:)

And a great prof, that renderings can look god aweful...

And a great prof, that renderings can look god aweful...

Well that picture I posted is a pixture from that Hitman goes Carlsberg-3D visualisation so I guess I should have known it couldn't be trusted - it just hurt my eyes. Like the whole 3D thing does, don't know why the publish it when it makes everything look so bad.

When will it be possible to buy some appartments out there?

When will it be possible to buy some appartments out there?
Never. Just check out today's news (http://borsen.dk/fodevarer/nyhed/157455/newsfeeds_newsdk/) about Carlsberg selling out their great ideals to appease potential buyers.

When will it be possible to buy some appartments out there?

Construction of the first four buildings is intended to start right after the summer holidays and be finished ultimo 2011.

As for the Børsen artcle and Valbyborgeren's dumb post, I don't really see why a sale should mean that nothing gets build there. It's a fantastic location and there's an approaved local plan, of course things will happen there eventually. And of course it will take a bit longer with the current market. But hopefully building phase 1 will still get going this autumn - and hopefully a sale won't affect the overall scheme in a less urban direction. ATP would be the perfect buyer hopefully the guy in the article is just trying to talk the price down - earlier they have said that the Marble Pier is just the beginning. With their long investment horrizon there really is is no risk and now is the perfect time to invest in real estate development.

^what about the highrises - any E.T.A for the first of those?

While we wait for Carlsberg to get started, Hitman has visited the Carlsberg premises.

:lol::lol::lol:

He's starting to get old!!

As for the Børsen artcle and Valbyborgeren's dumb post, I don't really see why a sale should mean that nothing gets build there. It's a fantastic location and there's an approaved local plan, of course things will happen there eventually. And of course it will take a bit longer with the current market. But hopefully building phase 1 will still get going this autumn - and hopefully a sale won't affect the overall scheme in a less urban direction. ATP would be the perfect buyer hopefully the guy in the article is just trying to talk the price down - earlier they have said that the Marble Pier is just the beginning. With their long investment horrizon there really is is no risk and now is the perfect time to invest in real estate development.
There's a lot of "hopefully" in your post.

I note that the director of Akademisk Arkitektforening is less optimistic than you (http://www.arkitektforeningen.dk/da/Nyheder/2009/Redvoresbypaavalbybakke.aspx) regarding the future for "Vores By". Most likely it will get turned into a lot of easily built module-based groundscrapers as that is cheap and easy to make and addresses a hole in the present day CPH residential market.

There's a lot of "hopefully" in your post.

I note that the director of Akademisk Arkitektforening is less optimistic than you (http://www.arkitektforeningen.dk/da/Nyheder/2009/Redvoresbypaavalbybakke.aspx) regarding the future for "Vores By". Most likely it will get turned into a lot of easily built module-based groundscrapers as that is cheap and easy to make and addresses a hole in the present day CPH residential market.

As always you completely fail to read - or comprehend - what other people write. Ny post was an answer to your "never" response to when it will be possible to buy apartments there and that is where i did not write "hopefully - if you read my post again: Of course something will get built there (eventually) since it's a fantastic and central location. And since you now write something completely different, assuming that something (lousy) will get built there, I guess you - now - agree with me on this matter. As for my alledged optimism, I actually prefer to be optimistic rather than a negative, destructive misanthropist like yourself who loathes any kind of change irrespective of wheather they are good or bad and in spite of the fact that you due to your negativism aren't too happy with the state of affairs in the first place. Unfortunately I don't really get why you see my post as such an optimistic outburst. As you write yourself, there are a lot of "hopefully"'s in it. A person more capable of - or rather more willing to - employ simple hermeneutics, would catch that this implies that I...tra-traaaa...HOPE the Carlsberg Project will be carried out in its current form. This is because it is imo very good and exactly what this city needs. If I was as optimistic as you claim, I would have no need for hopefully's but instead express confidence in its future, stating that it was "certain" or that there was "no doubt" as for the future of the premises. And as you write yourself, I don't.

PS And from your link I see that the director of Akademisk Arkitektforening agrees with me. Doesn't that make you think?:)

^^ Amen to that!

Just to make sure, you are not confusing Valbyborger_ii with Valbyborger ? I hope you have to post more to warrent "negative, destructive misanthropist" than Valbyborger_ii has done

Just to make sure, you are not confusing Valbyborger_ii with Valbyborger ? I hope you have to post more to warrent "negative, destructive misanthropist" than Valbyborger_ii has done

Well I am...I assumed you had forgotten your password or something and created a new profile. Sorry for the misunderstanding.:cheers:

Still a lot of the rethorics and the not very stringent line of argumentation seems to be a common denominator here...

Found this skyline picture:

http://peecee.dk/uploads/022009/090119_soeerne_big_thumb.jpg
click for full size (http://peecee.dk/uploads/022009/090119_soeerne.jpg)Looks good.

A bit of info on some of the new squares in Carlsberg - if it ever materializes in accordance with current plans, that is. Unfortunately they dont seem to start construction of phase 1 right after the summer holidays as earlier announced.

http://www.voresby.com/data/image/forweb_Overblik_1000.jpg

http://www.voresby.com/data/image/forweb_Plads1_1000.jpg

http://www.voresby.com/data/image/forweb_Plads2_1000.jpg

http://www.voresby.com/data/image/forweb_Plads3_1000.jpg

http://www.voresby.com/data/image/forweb_Plads3_1000.jpg

^^Looks very nice :)

It really does, but holly crap some cheap renderings..

looks like something quick made out of google sketchup

Is the above renders a master plan - or the actual thing?

looks like something quick made out of google sketchupLooks even worse than that - like something out of 1990 or something..

Bad architecture.

How much money are going to be invested in this new part of the city? The renders makes one fear that this is going to be a project on a tight budget. It would be a shame considering how much effort Carlsberg has put in the place over the years.

If the renders displays the final result, then they should just leave Carlsberg as it is today, and densify it progressively over time. Considering the current real-estate crisis in Copenhagen, that might not be such a bad idea after all.

Carlsberg isn't going to finance the area anymore, but the budget is approx. 30bn kr. (€4,1bn)

Carlsberg isn't going to finance the area anymore, but the budget is approx. 30bn kr. (€4,1bn)

Nope that is the PRIZE of the area - should anyone be interested in buying it from Carlsberg. As far as I remember, the development of the entire project is expected to cost around 12 billion D. kr..

As for the lousy quality of the renderings, I think the reason is that it isn't real renderings yet but just some pictures posted as illustrations in connection with the naming story. Save one of the squares, they are still on a very sketchy, preliminary stage. At least I hope that's the reason,:)

The plans for Carlsberg has won the masterplanning category at teh World Architecture Festival in Barcelona 2009. Hopefully it will create some positive coverage and help bringing the project back on track. I'm glad the Nordhavn project didn't win,

http://www.worldarchitecturefestival.com/news-detail.cfm?newsId=111

The plans for Carlsberg has won the masterplanning category at teh World Architecture Festival in Barcelona 2009. Hopefully it will create some positive coverage and help bringing the project back on track. I'm glad the Nordhavn project didn't win,

http://www.worldarchitecturefestival.com/news-detail.cfm?newsId=111

Weird how the media and others have almost avoided this one. I still remember how much publication the VM Mountain got.

New and interesting minutes available (http://www.carlsbergbyen.dk/data/file/Dialogmode101109.pdf)

+ a bunch of new renderings available (http://www.carlsbergbyen.dk/102/) - if I ever move to Denmark, this is definitely a place I would consider living. I hope they succeed with the current plans.

Thanks for the links, Fab5.

Berlingske wrote (http://www.fri.dk/bolig/arkitekturpris-til-ny-bydel-paa-carlsberg) about the WAF prize to Carlsberg the 12th of November (or about 6 days late)

Weird how the media and others have almost avoided this one. I still remember how much publication the VM Mountain got.

Great to see you stop by - even if ever so briefly. I guess part of the reason might be that it is easier to sell a story about a building which is actually there than an abstract plan which isn't even on the move right now. Plus I don't think the Bjarke Ingels-effect should be underestimated, he likes the press and the press likes him.:-p

The names for the new squares should be ready:
http://ibyen.dk/gadeplan/article842824.ece

The names for the new squares should be ready:
http://ibyen.dk/gadeplan/article842824.ece

So they have been for more than a month...Danish journalism continues to impress.

Sorry. Didn't know - mostly get my "news" from the news... :)

Carlsberg in World Architecture Nws:

http://www.worldarchitecturenews.com/index.php?fuseaction=wanappln.projectview&upload_id=12836

I hope someday that the Carlsberg area will get connected with trams, perhaps a metro in a future far away though I don't believe it.
Is VigersleV Allé congested or not ?

I hope someday that the Carlsberg area will get connected with trams, perhaps a metro in a future far away though I don't believe it.
Is VigersleV Allé congested or not ?

With a new relocated Enghave/Carlsberg Station, I don't really see the need. It will work pretty much as the metro line Carlsberg never got.:)

The competition for temporary meassures to liven up the Carlsberg area while it awaits real construction has been settled.

http://www.carlsbergbyen.dk/data/image/artikler/Artikler%202010/opdeling_3pladser_crop_bylivsprojekt.jpg

http://www.carlsbergbyen.dk/nyheder/161/et-skridt-naermere-byliv/

What is the most exiting thing about this projekt?

I have the info: "Vores By" in my hands, and is says that: "...hvor vægten i Vores by er på luksusboliger, eksklusivitet og "de rigtige" naboer."
But just below it says: "...hvor fokus er på....,mangfoldighed og diversitet." ?:ohno:

A paradox?

How can you be sure to attract diffent people if you only want ekspensive apartments?

"Vores by" talks a lot about Richard Florida... But Florida says that; if you want to create a creative hotspot, you also have to attract artist, bohemians and colourful people, who cant afford to live in..... "Deres by".

Nørrebro is more "hip" than "Vores by" I think.:dance:

And what about "Kødbyen"?

Creative people will find there place themselves.

^^
For God's sake, it's been two yeas and two months since Richard Florida visited Vejle and said some and said his corwd-pleasing mumbojumbo about the city and its fantastic potential...get over it. He is putting way too much emphasis on the importance of that creative class of his. Simply because it has become his act to travel the world and say it - it's what pays his bills.

^^ What's up with your obsession with these "ceative people"?


And I believe that's wgy.:)

http://www.information.dk/155725

So now you criticise the projekt to build its idea on Floridas data?

Does that mean that you only care for the physical part of the projekt, and not the hard effort, to build a decisive image and public development?

And I believe that's wgy.:)

http://www.information.dk/155725Thanks. :) But what a load of bla bla bla....creative class...bla bla bla....creative people...bla bla bla....

So now you criticise the projekt to build its idea on Floridas data?

Does that mean that you only care for the physical part of the projekt, and not the hard effort, to build a decisive image and public development?

I care a lot about other things than the physical part (that's why I live in the lovely/lively Vesterbro) but seriously: Don't present this as facts. It is a theory - one among many others - and he just happened to make a name for himself telling this story to politicians around the world. And they love this tale because they love these kind of people.

1. Contested theory: However, that the lovely Mr. Florida says something doesn't à priori make it true. You can compare him to Bjørn Lomborg (not to start a big environmental debate here though), there is a market for his side of the story but for every Bjørn Lomborg there are 10 other experts with the opposite view. And most serious urban theorists agree that he is attaching way too much emphasis to the significance of the creative class. For a city to suceed it is much more attractive to adress less sexy but much more potent issues, classes and meassures. Florida is a rock star, part of the entartainment industry, just a very specific part of it targeted at politicians.

2. Let's have SOME creative people though - but who? Still it doesn't make it entirely untrue either. Creative people are great for a city. But that said, exactly who of these creative people do we want to attract? Those with success and an eye for business and entrepreneurship of course. Not poor Gudrun I posted an article about in the Denmark Projects thread the other day. And these people can easily afford apartments. And the good news is that this successful elite of the creative class is actually some of thos who LIKE living in the city while a lot of other groups only live here until they can afford to move out to the suburbs in a single-family house. You seem to forget that not all creative people are poor artists and jugglers. And they will love Carlsberg, no doubt about it.

3. Your description of Carlsberg is wrong:You totally choose to ignore the efforts which Carlsberg actually does make to make this a mixed neighbourhood. There will be "affordable housing" here and there will be student residences. Still there will of course be much more fairly expensive apartments but hey that's the way life is. You don't build the cheapest 10 % of the housing market, it will always be made up of old apartments. It is not enough to have a poster of Mr. Florida above your bed, sooner or later you will have to face reality. On top of that, according to your own Mr. Florida it is particularly in the beginning that the creative gang is important to an area. First they move in, later other groups follow because they make it so trendy and then they move on, settling in a new edgy area. And Carlsberg has done a lot to attract small creative businesses etc to the area while it awaits development. They have rented out a lot of sqm for a very reasonable rent to small new businesses and artist's studios etc and taken a lot of other initiatives too.

4. You fail to consider the context: You talk about this matter as if Carlsberg was a secluded enclace in the middle of nowhere. I totally agree that we want a diverse city but you totally forget that Carlsberg is a pretty small area amidst very diverse areas. It is located where Kongens Enghave, Vesterbro, Frederiksberg and Valby meet. It is located next to classical -bro district (Vesterbro), terraced houses (Humlebyen, prime territory of the creative class), bourgois Frederiksberg, a 18th century vulla area, an absorbed village environment (Gammel Valby), extensive parklands (Vestre Kirkegaard, Søndermarken, Zoo and Frederiksberg Have), some of the most neglected and cheap areas in the city (Kongens Enghave), You can simply not find a more diverse place in Copenhagen and what the place screams for is exactly what Carlsberg will get it: A dense urban centre for all these influences to meet in and a fair proportion of affluant, creative people who can create a solid foundation for some high quality shops (like delicacies) and lots of cultural and recreational venues. If some of the people using those cultural activities happen to live outside the area is not really important, we don't want an isolated enclave with no contact to the surrounding community, do we?

And as for your claim to know what creative people want and who they are - and all your talk about Svendborg - please read this:

Kreative mennesker bor i Gentofte
27. aug. 2008 18.14 Hovedstadsområdet
Gentofte Kommune har en større andel kreative borgere end nogen anden kommune i Danmark. I det hele taget er det kommunerne omkring København, der har flest kreative mennesker. Ud over Gentofte er det Lyngby-Taarbæk, Furesø, Gentofte, Allerød og Frederiksberg.

Det er dog ikke ensbetydende med, at alle disse kommuner har et tilsvarende højt antal kreative arbejdspladser. Her skiller Lyngby-Taarbæk sig ud som den kommune, der har den største andel kreative arbejdspladser i Danmark.

Dette fremgår af rapporten, Det Kreative Danmarkskort II, der lige som sin forgænger fra 2004 er inspireret af den amerikanske professor Richard Florida og hans tese om, at menneskelig kreativitet er den ultimative, økonomiske ressource.

Det Kreative Danmarkskort II er blevet udarbejdet i samarbejde mellem Danmarks Statistik og 11CityDesign. Danmarks Statistik har stået for de anvendte data og 11CityDesign for bearbejdning af det indhentede materiale.

Kreativitet defineres i rapporten som evnen til at kombinere eksisterende viden og omforme den til nye, brugbare løsninger.

Undersøgelsen viser, hvor stor en andel af borgere og arbejdspladser i hver af Danmarks 98 kommuner der er kreative, men den viser samtidig, at en kommunes kreativitet ikke alene kan måles i procenter. Herning er et eksempel på, at relativt få kreative mennesker med masser af energi kan skabe udvikling i et område.

Rapporten tegner et negativt billede af Danmarks fire største byer, når det handler om at tiltrække kreative borgere. I København, Århus, Odense og Ålborg er der flere kreative fraflyttere end tilflyttere. Særligt markant er Århus med dobbelt så mange kreative fraflyttere som tilflyttere. Et af de oplagte steder for de kreative at flytte til er Ballerup, som har hele 50 procent kreative arbejdspladser, men kun 39 procent kreative borgere


http://www.dr.dk/Regioner/Kbh/Nyheder/Hovedstadsomraadet/2008/08/27/181303.htm

København får kæmpe international kunsthal
3.000 kvadratmeter stor kunsthal skal være Danmarks svar på Tate Modern.

Allerede for tre år siden kunne ibyen.dk for første gang fortælle, at planerne om en ny international kunsthal i København ulmede i kunstverdenen.

Nu er beslutningen om at etablere en 3.000 kvadratmeter stor kunsthal på Carlsberg endelig truffet.

Partierne bag budgetforliget 2011 i Københavns Kommune er nemlig enige om at give driftstøtte til projektet.

http://ibyen.dk/kunst/ECE1071490/koebenhavn-faar-kaempe-international-kunsthal/

Moved from the Copenhagen thread...

The people that pays the taxes, who else ? :-)

^^Not for the construction of the building, only for subsidizing the operations of it. Some foundation will probably be paying. Normally finding funds for the operations is the tricky part - that's what killed Mega Vega for instance - while it is easier to find someone who will pay for the building. And it shouldn't be all that expensive to build anyway. The Ministry of Cultural Affairs have also indicated that they will support the project (highly unusual) but that will probably be for operating it as well.

Will be interesting to see who will participate in the competition apart from SANAA and if it will be instrumental in getting other projects going in the Carlsberg area.

^^How about posting this in the Carlsberg thread?

Done.:)

Fab5: Do you know anything about where on the premises this project will be located?

^^ ;) - I mean, you might know that as well, right?

It's going to be a total new building? Or?

..

What has become of the fantastic visions of this (former) Carlsberg area. I see it as one of the best projects ever, that could really bring some great construction to Copenhagen, but instead they are building modern slum in the Ørestad. :down:

Are there any actual construction comming up in this area, or is it still only a vision.?

:)

What has become of the fantastic visions of this (former) Carlsberg area. I see it as one of the best projects ever, that could really bring some great construction to Copenhagen, but instead they are building modern slum in the Ørestad. :down:

Are there any actual construction comming up in this area, or is it still only a vision.?

:)


Like so much else, the plans are dormant right now. Carlsberg wants to concentrate on core activities and bringing down their debts and are therefore trying to sell the project/area to a pension fund. But they have stated that they will only sell to somebody which will stick to their masterplan which is godt at least. The City would probably not accept any major changes either. So we will just have to wait.

I don't quite get what you mean by "they". Copenhagen is not a person, you know, but actually but quite a lot of (legal) persons. And "they" in this case is Carlsberg Properties which has nothing to do with Ørestad (Tuborg Havn though).

Getting back to the kunsthal thing, I guess Ramblersen know of this already, however, what I heard is that the SANAA building (I am hoping desperately for it to be won by the Japanese) is going to be a brand-new building. Location-wise I have heard of several options, so let's see what happens.

Like so much else, the plans are dormant right now. Carlsberg wants to concentrate on core activities and bringing down their debts and are therefore trying to sell the project/area to a pension fund. But they have stated that they will only sell to somebody which will stick to their masterplan which is godt at least. The City would probably not accept any major changes either. So we will just have to wait.

Yes thanks god for that..this exceptionel, beautiful site has to grow organic and slowly, and not developed by a nontalented investor/cityplanner of which agenda only is time and money, or to profile themself (of course Carlsberg wanna earn money, but the history and the localplan don't allow them to rush things through).

The good thing is that the area, when you visit it now, is attractive and you don't feel it as a developmentszone and therefore don't have to squeeze quick ugly architecture into it, atleast until anything else demand it .

^^You do realize that there is an on-going sales process with regard to the whole project, right?

There was something about the development of Carlsberg on Tv2 Lorry the other day:
http://lorry.dk/moduler/nyheder/showregvideo.asp?dato=01-10-2010&cID=1&vId=567604

^^You do realize that there is an on-going sales process with regard to the whole project, right?

Yes I know that, but hopefully to an investor that understand the caracter of this unique historical piece of land.
The challenge for the moment, is probably that Carlsbergs salesprice is far to high in relation to what a potentiel buyer want to pay, and sources in Carlsberg speaks about new huge business loans for coming investments in China, and they're for sure very keen to make a couple or three billions kr. on this project.

..

http://www.carlsbergbyen.dk/data/image/artikler/Artikler%202010/Boble%20Foto.jpg

Boble Plads, the second of the three urban spaces which are made in the Carlsberg area with support from Realdaina while the area awaits proper construction, will be ready Thursday. It will have various facilities for street sports such as parkour, street basket and other ball play, skating and good ol' children's play as well as barbeques and the possibility to play loud music.

In a short while, Boblehallen will open as a 24-hour open, indoor venue, offering more or less the same array of activities.

http://www.realdania.dk/Presse/Nyheder/2010/Carlsberg-Boble-Pl-101004.aspx

Yes I know that, but hopefully to an investor that understand the caracter of this unique historical piece of land.
The challenge for the moment, is probably that Carlsbergs salesprice is far to high in relation to what a potentiel buyer want to pay, and sources in Carlsberg speaks about new huge business loans for coming investments in China, and they're for sure very keen to make a couple or three billions kr. on this project.

I wouldn't be so scared with regard to a new investor coming in. With such an overall district plan it is going to be hard - IMO impossible - to challenge the existing concept.

I wouldn't be so scared with regard to a new investor coming in. With such an overall district plan it is going to be hard - IMO impossible - to challenge the existing concept.

Fab5, since you usually seem so weel-informed, do you know anything about the progress of the sales process? And about potential buyers? The obvious choise seems ATP but they have at an earlier stage sounded rather reluctant.

According to cphx, kunsthallen at Carlsberg is going to be a completely new building :banana:
It's gonna be exciting to hear the details on the financing of it.

Arkitektkonkurrence
Kunsthallen på Carlsberg skal opføres som en helt ny bygning i bydelen. Ambitionen er et hus med topmoderne udstillingsfaciliteter og en arkitektur, der i sig selv bliver et besøg værd.

Derfor bliver der i den nærmeste fremtid udskrevet en arkitektkonkurrence med deltagelse af 3-5 internationalt anerkendte tegnestuer. En af tegnestuerne bliver japanske SANAA, som netop har haft en stor udstilling i Dansk Arkitektur Center.

Arkitektkonkurrencen bliver afgjort i løbet af 2011 og kunsthallen står formentlig klar i 2013.

Driftsstøtte fra Københavns Kommune
Det er endnu ikke offentliggjort, hvem der skal finansiere selve byggeriet, men ifølge Kristoffer Lindhardt Weiss er tilsagnet fra kommunen om driftsstøtte helt afgørende for at finde seriøse investorer til projektet.

Københavns Kommune støtter kunsthallen med en million kroner de følgende to år og med 3 millioner, når kunsthallen står færdig. Herudover skal staten, fonde og indtægter dække øvrige udgifter til drift.

Read the whole text at http://www.cphx.dk/?#/443951/

The music-oriented Sankt Annæ highschool is interested in moving to Carlsberg. It will, however, demand 4-500 mio. kr. of private funding. The architect firm Cebra has drawn up a 26.000 m2 conceptual project but if the money are found and things go ahead, there will be an architecture competition.
A conceptual sketch deom Cebra:

http://www.voresby.com/data/image/artikler/skt_annaeSTOR.JPG

Link with more renderings:
http://www.voresby.com/nyheder/75/sankt-annae-gymnasium-vil-bo-pa-carlsberg/

There is a bit of news about this project. In the recent municipal budget agreement, funds were provided for the development of plans to make the Sankt Annæ School into a "Europa school" - a network of international schools catering to children of personel of the European institutions - in connection with a move to Carlsberg (the school has btw already relocated some activities to Carlsberg). Some further info can be found in this not quite new article from Berlingske:

http://www.berlingske.dk/koebenhavn/koebenhavn-satser-paa-europaskole

This project would really be perfect for Carlsberg.

Look nice this project ^^
Love the idea of the stairs and the interaction of it with the down floor...
I am curious to see more about that..

Look nice this project ^^
Love the idea of the stairs and the interaction of it with the down floor...
I am curious to see more about that..


Well the design is just a vision. If the plans materialize, there will be an architectural competition.:)

^^
A really fine idea, and I like this proposal already :)

Carlsberg seems to be modifying their environmental targets for the Carlsberg district - or are they just modifying their underatanding of what is sustainable? Or are they trying to disfuise the former as the latter?

I find their new position very positive, whatever the case is, since it seems to introduce reason and rationalism in place of religion to the whole sustainability issue. Perhaps also to render the whole project more appealing to potential buyers?

http://www.building-supply.dk/article/view.html?id=55169

Lat week, the last of the three temporary urban spaces in the Carlsberg area was inaugurated. Urban Jungle consist of 3,500 ropes suspended from a 3,000 sqm roof.

http://www.carlsbergbyen.dk/data/image/frontpage/top_underhalvtaget.jpg

http://www.carlsbergbyen.dk/data/image/artikler/Artikler%20efteraar%202010/Ny-Tap-Plads_folk_haenger_i.jpg

http://www.carlsbergbyen.dk/data/image/artikler/Artikler%20efteraar%202010/Ny-Tap-Plads_folk_haenger_i.jpg

JA-hatten leger i torvene :lol:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5050/5257015419_3df82ce44d_b.jpg

..

Funny picture, haven't seen it before:

http://www.dn.se/blogg/epstein/files/2011/02/u42.jpg

^^Where did you find this?

^^ http://www.dn.se/blogg/epstein/2011/02/11/olika-meningar-om-hoga-hus-i-norden/

Development at the Carlsberg site.
Realdania buys 25 % of the project, if Carlsberg can sell another 50 % to other investors.

http://borsen.dk/nyheder/investor/artikel/1/203419/carlsberg_saelger_valby-grunden.html

^^ That is very interesting news. I am crossing my fingers, and anything else on my body, that is crossable!

I am wondering if the bad news so far about the Nordhavn development could ironically become good news for the Carlsberg area?

I drive through Carlsberg on my way to and from work. The last couple of days I have seen a truck from GEO making tests af the ground. It is in the south-eastern part of the area - close to Enghavevej and the traintracks. Perhaps an indication of future development?

The New Carlsberg Brewhouse Project

As one Brewhouse Project is about to go under construction - at the waterfront - another one seems on the way. This competition has just been launched:

Carlsberg Group has announced an international design competition to transform the New Carlsberg Brewhouse into an exciting, must-see Brand and Experience Centre, attracting 500,000 visitors each year

http://www.carlsberggroup.com/media/PressKits/Pages/brewhouse.aspx

The New Carlsberg Brewhouse Project

As one Brewhouse Project is about to go under construction - at the waterfront - another one seems on the way. This competition has just been launched:



http://www.carlsberggroup.com/media/PressKits/Pages/brewhouse.aspx :cheers: man, could be nice soon to get a breakthrough, so we actually see some development there..all these golden plans, all the talking..WE WANNA SEE SOME CONSTRUCTION. NOW.

btw. I know a couple living in Humle-byen.They don't wanna see any construction/development there at all. As the man told me, a highrise shadowing their little back-yard is not very attractive, and they don't understand why the high-rises hasn't been placed along the train tracks instead of drypping them all over the place.
Well - he might have a point.

^^
I don't think he has a point at all. I like the idea with the highrises marking the position of different urban spaces. Of course it may have some (minor) negative side effects to neighbours but that is what it is like living in a city and what matters is what will ultimately give the best area to all of uss.

As for when we will se construction, another thing I have thought of is Dansehallerne. In the agreement, they were promissed a new purpose-built building within a time span of five five years and it is now about one and a half years ago that they moved into their current, temporary venue. I wonder if these plans are still progressing or if they have simply been put on hold as everything else due to "new circumstances".