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FOCUS: ENERGY PROPOSAL
Proposal for new plant at Bethlehem Steel site raises both hopes and doubts (http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/371290.html)
Lackawanna mayor backs plan to convert petroleum coke to gas
By Stephen T. Watson NEWS STAFF REPORTER
Updated: 06/16/08 7:40 AM

A company wants to build a massive plant at the former Bethlehem Steel site that would convert petroleum coke — a waste product of oil refining — into synthetic gas.

Lackawanna Clean Energy says it will spend $1.5 billion to clean up the plant’s dormant coke oven facility and then build its facility, creating 1,500 construction jobs and at least 150 permanent positions at the site.

“One of the objectives of this company is to take brownfields and convert them into useful sites again,” said Ralph D. Miranda, a local project manager for Lackawanna Clean Energy.

If it happens, it would provide a major boost for the area economy.

But there is reason for skepticism. Little is known about Lackawanna Clean Energy, a company set up to manage this visionary project.

The company has hired a public relations firm, but its official Web site is blank.

The company says it has the financing in place to cover the significant capital investment required for its plans, but company officials would not reveal the sources of this support.

And Lackawanna Clean Energy has not yet received the environmental approvals needed for the plant, which would produce carbon dioxide emissions.

“It would be a good idea if you can get a reliable source of petroleum coke in a large enough quantity to make the capital investment worthwhile,” said Harvey G. Stenger Jr., dean of the University at Buffalo engineering school.

Officials divided

The proposal has divided local officials.

Erie County Executive Chris Collins is not endorsing the project because of environmental concerns.

Lackawanna Mayor Norman Polanski Jr., though, is a supporter who touts its economic benefits.

“We haven’t done anything there for 25 years, and this is the opportunity of a lifetime to get somebody in there who will pay taxes and hire locally,” Polanski said.

The company says it plans to build its conversion facility on the sprawling 178-acre parcel along Route 5 that is home to the former Bethlehem Steel coke ovens.

The site is a network of rusting pipe, red-brick buildings in various stages of decay and pockets of overgrown grass.

The waterfront property, with soil as black as coal, sits to the west of the Buffalo Crushed Stone complex and to the east of the new Steel Winds facility.

Lackawanna Clean Energy officials say they would tear down everything on the site and remediate it to the level required by the state Department of Environmental Conservation.

The raw material in their business plan is petroleum coke, a waste product generated in oil refining.

Petroleum coke turns brittle as it cools and looks and feels like coal, said Stenger, the UB engineering dean.

Under the conversion process known as gasification, this petroleum coke is burned at high temperatures and under high pressure, Stenger said. This produces substitute natural gas, with carbon dioxide as a byproduct, and the company would likely pipe the gas into the distribution network for use as home heating fuel.

“The technology is good, but not as well established as gasifying coal,” Stenger said.

Plans filed with the DEC show the company proposes to convert 6,000 tons of petroleum coke into 85 million cubic feet of synthetic natural gas each day, said Megan Gollwitzer, a department spokeswoman.

“That’s very big. That’s a lot of money and that’s a lot of coke,” Stenger said.

Increase in activity

Company officials have been looking at the site for about four years, and they’ve ramped up activity on the proposal over the past year. They focused on the former coke oven property because of the good rail and water access to the site, Miranda said.

The company has invested at least $1 million in hiring staff and conducting engineering work and other research, officials said.

“This isn’t fairy dust. This is something that’s real. They’ve got the experience to do it,” said Earl Wells, president of e3communications and a spokesman for Lackawanna Clean Energy.

Company principal James S. Falsetti is a Lockport native and former Texaco official who has extensive experience in energy-conversion projects. Some of the other Lackawanna Clean Energy officials were involved in the Steel Winds project, but Miranda declined to identify them.

The project has received little notice to date. Officials with the Buffalo Niagara Enterprise business advocacy group, for example, hadn’t heard of the proposal until a reporter contacted the group.

Project has low profile

Lackawanna Clean Energy officials are looking to complete the cleanup and construction by 2012, but hurdles remain.

The company has begun to seek the required environmental approvals from the state, including permits covering air emissions and pollution discharges.

The DEC ruled that the company’s initial emissions permit application was incomplete, and Lackawanna Clean Energy responded last month, Gollwitzer said. The public will have a chance to comment on the project before the agency makes its decision.

Miranda and Wells said the company is waiting for the state to set new standards on allowable levels of carbon dioxide emissions. Those should come later this summer, and New York is coordinating its new regulations with those of nine other states in the Northeast, said Judith Enck, Gov. David A. Paterson’s deputy secretary for the environment.

The company could bury the carbon dioxide under ground, but it’s not clear whether environmental regulators would permit this disposal method, said Holly A. Sinnott, Erie County’s commissioner of environment and planning.

Given the questions over how to handle the carbon dioxide emissions, and because the process of converting petroleum coke to gas is relatively untested, the county can’t endorse the project at this time, Sinnott said.

The project does have the strong support of Polanski, the Lackawanna mayor. He points to the jobs the project would create as well as the property taxes the plant’s owners would pay.

Polanski wrote a letter to Paterson seeking his backing for the proposal.

“The governor is following the progress of this project with great interest, but we need to see more details,” said Morgan Hook, a Paterson spokesman.

Supply is a question

Can this project succeed?

The company must identify a consistent supply of enough petroleum coke, said Stenger, the UB engineering dean. And even if the company finds enough up-front capital, the economic success of the project hinges on the price of coal and natural gas staying high, Stenger said.

Company officials say the project is realistic and financially viable.

As they escorted two visitors around the parcel last week, company officials talked about their proposal in the context of the long history of industrial work on the site.

“It’s our hope to get it going again,” Miranda said.

swatson@buffnews.com

I don't know if I like this...

Noticed one mistake on the map- the rendering for the casino is a previous design with the office building.

A twin for Paladino's Waterfront Tower - From Today's Buffalo News

Paladino seeks a twin of Pasquale condo complex
New waterfront tower would have 48 units
By Sharon Linstedt NEWS BUSINESS REPORTER
Updated: 06/17/08 7:10 AM

Dennis C. Enser/Buffalo News
Carl Paladino’s Ellicott Development won’t submit the new plans until it meets with the Waterfront Village Association. More Photos

Buffalo’s Ellicott Development wants to double its condominium offerings on the waterfront. Ellicott chief Carl P. Paladino confirmed his firm has developed plans for a second, 13-story, 48-unit condo tower as part of its Waterfront Place development. Paladino said the decision to double the number of units is based on demand for its first tower which will debut in October.

“We’ve pre-sold 31 of the 48 units in the Pasquale and think there’s enough demand to start planning a second tower,” Paladino said. “It will be essentially a twin to the Pasquale.”

The first tower, located in Waterfront Village, adjacent to the Erie Basin Marina, offers units with price tags running from $350,000 up to $1.1 million. They vary in size from 1,300 square feet to more than 3,000 square feet.

“We’re seeing a variety of buyers because of the price and size range. It seems to be the right formula,” Paladino said.

The developer has sold one of the $1 million-plus penthouse units and has a commitment for the remaining upper echelon residence.

Ellicott Development will hold off on submission of formal plans for the second tower until it meets with the Waterfront Village Association. A preliminary timetable would see planning continue through 2008, with a 2009 construction start if needed approvals are obtained.

“We are seeing a small but growing number of people who want to live downtown to be closer to where they work. We think that will continue to increase as the cost of gas rises and they rethink living way out in the suburbs,” Paladino added.

The second tower would add another $22 million investment to Ellicott’s existing $40 million blueprint for Pasquale and a cluster of low-rise townhouses.

Paladino also confirmed he plans to “down-size” the townhouse design to better meet the needs of prospective buyers. The redesigned units will be slightly smaller floor plans, lower roof lines and reduced price tags.

To date, four units of the phased, 15-townhouse development have been built, with prices ranging from $529,000 and $659,000. The developer wants to cut the total number of units to 14 and bring starting prices down to just under $500,000.

“The roof lines would come down about 18 feet, but the basic interior layout will be the same and the facade will be almost identical to the first group,” Paladino said. “It’s a slight variation we think will make the whole project more desireable.”

Ellicott will need to go back to the Buffalo Planning Board to tweak the project site plan and construction documents.

The first residents of the Townhouses at Waterfront Place moved in in January.

slinstedt@buffnews.com

Well you can take the City Tower off of the list. It's officially dead. It's not even on the realty USA web site any more, though the Statler still is.

Regarding the Paladino second tower, it is my understanding that it may be as much as 5 floors taller than the first but that they do not want to say anything that might discourage sales in the first tower. I guess they think people might want to wait for a higher view instead of buying now.

To those in-the-know... has there been any status update on that project to renovate the building on Main and W.Ferry? I pass that corner often... haven't seen any changes yet.

Any news on 33 Gates? I haven't heard anything about it lately.

No news on Gates, but Uniland is going to announce the new name of Two Hundred Delaware on Monday. :gossip:

I see the national energy crisis thing (high gas prices) much like buffalo's NIMBYisms...no refinery, no drilling, no nukes, no shale, no offshore...no no no no no no no no...kinda like no Gates circle, no Issa, no casino, no metrorail, I mean sometimes we get lucky but even a retard can get a shot of 'tang' if he dances right. :lol:

just my thoughts, you guys know what to expect. :cheers:

I think they should stick with 200 Delaware. It has a nice strong sound to it

"The Big Blue Water Building"

... instant traffic landmark

how about...

"Finally we did something correctly tower"

I think they should stick with 200 Delaware. It has a nice strong sound to it

agreed. Two Hundred Delaware is fine.

I have to say I'm truly disgusted with Robert Freudenheim. I have met him and spoke with him in the past, and he told me that he doesn't believe in using tax credits/government money to redevelop buildings (like Rocco Termini does), and that he thinks a building should be financed with private money.

Now, parts of his building are being demolished to protect the neighboring homes, and who is paying for it? The city. The tax payers! FUC#ING HYPOCRITE!

I have to say I'm truly disgusted with Robert Freudenheim. I have met him and spoke with him in the past, and he told me that he doesn't believe in using tax credits/government money to redevelop buildings (like Rocco Termini does), and that he thinks a building should be financed with private money.

Now, parts of his building are being demolished to protect the neighboring homes, and who is paying for it? The city. The tax payers! FUC#ING HYPOCRITE!
He's not using money to "redevelop" though... he's using public money to demolish... so technically he within his word ;)

I hadn't realized he was against the Elmwood Hotel though... I guess he's a preservationist only when it fits him.

agreed. Two Hundred Delaware is fine.
Anything with the word Delaware in it has a good ring to it.

Delaware Avenue Target store plans to have a growth spurt
Changes reflect those at several other sites

The Minneapolis-based discount chain plans to add nearly 20,000 square feet to its Delaware Consumer Square store, off Delaware Avenue in North Buffalo. The retailer will expand the footprint of its existing 119,000-square-foot store by expanding into an adjoining vacant retail space, while adding a new-build addition.

The 12-year-old store will also see an overall facelift. The Target makeover is expected to mirror changes that have been made at several of the chain’s other sites, including expansion of its packaged and frozen foods departments, which has already occurred at the Target located in Boulevard Consumer Square in Amherst.

... The City of Buffalo Planning Board will get a first look at the retailer’s site plan at its July 1 session. The retailer is seeking approval to make the changes by year’s end.

... Expansion of the Buffalo Target comes as discount competitor, Kohl’s, is building its first city location less than a mile away at Delaware Commons, just south of Hertel Avenue. The 88,000-square-foot Kohl’s will open this fall on site of a long-vacant Ames Department Store. ...

http://www.buffalonews.com/145/story/375323.html

Buffalo Job Boom

From the Buffalo News...

The region added 2,900 jobs from May 2007 to May 2008, with all of the increase coming from the government sector. Hiring by private sector service-providing firms also offset a continued decline in factory jobs.

The pace of local job growth during May was more than double the 0.2 percent nationwide increase — the second straight month employment growth here has topped the U. S. average.

The 0.5 percent pace of local job growth matched the statewide rate and ranked third among the state’s 13 major metropolitan areas, trailing only New York City and the area that includes Putnam, Rockland and Westchester counties.

The bright spots in the local job market included local schools, which added jobs at a 3.1 percent annual rate, as well as a hiring spurt in the region’s accommodation and food service firms, which grew by nearly 6 percent from a year ago. Financial services, a bright spot in the local job market for most of the last year, remained strong, adding 900 jobs for a 2.7 percent annual growth rate.



And the link: http://www.buffalonews.com/businesstoday/localbusiness/story/374547.html

seriously, I don't know what we're going to do with all of this prosperity. Maybe we should go around giving some of our excess jobs to our neighboring and peer cities.

Government jobs have great benefits.

I'm not impressed. Unless they're state jobs and some of our population is able to leech some benefit off of the rest of the state on account of an overbloated state government. But that's a problem in and of itself and taking us further away from solving the root of all the problems we face. It'll fix things as quickly as drilling for more oil will wean us from oil dependency & prices.

Shit rolls downhill, and until the state cleans up its act it's impossible to expect the counties and municipalties to clean up on their own, much less for it to have any real meaning or impact if they actually do.

Ahh, let them hire away. The more they strain budgets now, the quicker it collapses. Let them have their cake and suffer the heart attack, too.

Government jobs have great benefits.

Indeed they do, and they pay well too (maybe not CEO pay, but higher than the avg income). The only unfortunate thing is that their pay & benefits come out of the taxpayers wallet.

http://www.buffalonews.com/258/story/376685.html

200 Delaware = Avant

:dunno:

Sounds like a hotel name.

"I'm staying at the Avant" compared to "I work in the Avant building"

It's an ideal name for a condo tower at least.

Hopefully the lighted sign will look decent. Something downtown could use a little more of.

I will save Dan the time

Avaeeeeeeyant

Well you can take the City Tower off of the list. It's officially dead. It's not even on the realty USA web site any more, though the Statler still is.

Too bad, look like that's gone the way of that tower that John Riga was going to build. But even in the best of times, the market for a high-rise condo in Buffalo was probably limited.

http://buffalo.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2008/06/23/daily11.html?jst=b_ln_hl


I am surprised you guys are not all over this. This agreement means we will soon be seeing a swank new building in the med campus for a dedicated heart center.

how bout this

Richard Tobe out as Economic Development Commissioner

http://publicbroadcasting.net/wned/news.newsmain?action=article&ARTICLE_ID=1305531&sectionID=1

Government jobs have great benefits.

haha.

didn't a bunch of Dunkin Donuts open up in the metro area?

http://buffalo.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2008/06/23/daily11.html?jst=b_ln_hl


I am surprised you guys are not all over this. This agreement means we will soon be seeing a swank new building in the med campus for a dedicated heart center.
Unfortunately the Berger Commision has to approve the agreement and one of their members was just on Ch 2 and said the comission will not likely approve the agreement unless either ECMC or Buff General is closed.

Indeed they do, and they pay well too (maybe not CEO pay, but higher than the avg income). The only unfortunate thing is that their pay & benefits come out of the taxpayers wallet.
If you dig through the numbers you will see that 4,000 of the so called government jobs are actually at the various Seneca properties.

It was great to see that Financial Services had such a large increase as well

Housing Construction Up 69% in WNY

Western New York's construction sector is continuing its healthy rebound, according to figures released Monday morning by McGraw-Hill Inc.

Contracts for future construction in Erie and Niagara counties totaled $122.0 million in May 2008, up 34 percent from $90.7 million in the same month a year ago.

Both sides of the industry were stronger last month. Residential construction was up 69 percent in the Buffalo market, while nonresidential was up 16 percent. Nonresidential projects include office buildings, shopping centers, industrial plants, schools and churches.

The latest report continues a strong upward trend that began in January, following a disappointing 2007. Construction contracts slumped 9 percent in the two-county region last year.

Volume for the first five months of 2008, including the May statistics released on Monday, totaled $609.4 million. That was 77 percent ahead of last year's five-month pace of $344.2 million

http://buffalo.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2008/06/23/daily4.html?jst=b_ln_hl

Since 2006 was the record year for construction these figures indicate that we are on pace to set a new record this year.

Issa should build a smaller office building and scrap the multi use angle. If he did indeed have some interest and some potential suitors, why not scale it back? I'd take a 15 story building at that location over nothing.

New Hyatt coming to Amherst

- by James Fink Business First

Construction is expected to start later this month on Western New York's first Hyatt Summerfield Suites hotel.

The 130-room hotel, which is being developed by Canadian businessman Sam Johal, is slated for Sweet Home Road along the western edge of the University at Buffalo campus in Amherst.

According to construction industry documents filed by Johal, the six-story, 80,000-square-foot building will include such amenities as an indoor pool, business center and small meeting rooms. The project carries a $13 million price tag and will be privately financed.

Johal's development team includes Chamberlain Architect Services Ltd. of Burlington, Ont., which was retained as the project architect.

DiDonato Associates Engineering & Architecture of Buffalo was hired as structural and civil engineer, while Buffalo Engineering P.C. of Cheektowaga was retained as the project's mechanical engineer. Patrick Development of East Amherst was hired as the general contractor.

The hotel is expected to open late next spring.

Metro Rail Expansion

Business First of Buffalo - by James Fink Business First
Changing economic conditions coupled with future development plans could be enough to fuel the oft-discussed expansion of the Niagara Frontier Transportation Authority's Metro Rail system.

NFTA officials confirmed that a Metro Rail expansion could be on their agenda in the coming years -- but they also warned nothing is cast in stone, and it may take years before it becomes a reality.

"We're definitely not ruling it out," said Lawrence Meckler, NFTA executive director.

NFTA officials hinted at the possible Metro Rail expansion during a news conference Thursday to highlight their participation in the third annual "Dump the Pump" day that encourages local residents to use either the authority's bus routes or light rapid transit rail instead of driving their cars. The NFTA has seen a large spike in public transportation riders during the past year as fuel prices continue to soar. Between last June and this past May, the NFTA has seen its ridership increase by 2.2 million, going from 24.29 million passengers to 26.41 million - an 8.7 percent hike.

Meckler said rising gas prices along with more concerns about the environment and a number of development projects including the University at Buffalo's 2020 expansion plans may push long discussed Metro Rail expansion to the forefront.

"UB 2020 certainly changes the dynamics," Meckler said.

Part of the UB plan calls for developing a "third" campus in and around downtown's Buffalo Niagara Medical Campus.

The NFTA is expected to hire a transportation expansion consultant later this year to address the possibility of adding more bus routes and service and also considering building new Metro Rails to UB's Amherst campus, the Buffalo Niagara International Airport or the Southtowns. The report will take about one year to complete and then decide whether the authority should lobby state and federal sources for money to create the new routes.

The current six-mile long Metro Rail route runs from downtown Buffalo to UB's South campus on Main Street. The $550 million project debuted in 1985 and almost from its first day of operation, there have periodic drives to expand its service.

The NFTA last considered Metro Rail expansion in 2001, but at the time, the idea was scrapped because of its high cost and doubts about the investment would pay off in the long term.

"We're not making any promises," said Walt Zmuda, NFTA director of surface transportation. "Let's see where all this takes us. Right now, it does look more and more promising when you are talking about linking the three (UB) campuses."


http://buffalo.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2008/06/16/daily35.html?t=printable

Unfortunately the Berger Commision has to approve the agreement and one of their members was just on Ch 2 and said the comission will not likely approve the agreement unless either ECMC or Buff General is closed.

Everything I have ever heard is that it is a consolidation not a closing.

The NFTA last considered Metro Rail expansion in 2001, but at the time, the idea was scrapped because of its high cost and doubts about the investment would pay off in the long term.
The NFTA has absolutely NO Vision. They wait around until the Obvious smacks them in the face. Now it will be another 15 years before we see any expansions, even if they do start now.

Everything I have ever heard is that it is a consolidation not a closing.

Actually it is to be a full asset merger with a new University Hospital taking the place of ECMC or Buff General. To quote the Berger Com.:

"Eliminate duplication of services amongst
three facilities, part of which would entail
a full asset merger:
* Create NYS owned SUNY Hospital on
Buffalo Niagara Medical Campus
(BNMC) with a separate governance
structure that is aligned with the
SUNY/UB Medical School;

Consolidate Level I trauma, solid organ
transplant, open heart surgery, other
medical/surgical tertiary health care as
service lines;

* Consolidate inpatient behavioral health
and medical rehabilitation services."

Obviously you cannot consolidate and reduce total beds without a closure if you want to have higher quality patient care. I think that is what the Berger Com. member was getting at in his interview on ch 2. You should watch it, they will probably repeat it at 10 or 11 tonight sometimes they post their stories to their web site..

http://www.nyhealthcarecommission.org/docs/final/appendix2-westernrac.pdf

The NFTA has absolutely NO Vision. They wait around until the Obvious smacks them in the face. Now it will be another 15 years before we see any expansions, even if they do start now.

:nuts:NFTA Vision = BNIA and NFIA = emplanements doubling in 10 years, lower fares and more non-stops = vision = homestar wrongly exhibiting typical Buffalo cynisism for the sake of cynicism.

You can complain about lost opportunities of the past 40 years like a typical Buffalonian or you can go forward and build a better community starting now. Life is far too short to hang so tightly onto the past just so you can place blame

Don't thank the NFTA for BNIA's explosive passenger growth, thank the Canadian government's NAVCAN taxes, landing fees at Pearson, and the weak US dollar.

Don't thank the NFTA for BNIA's explosive passenger growth, thank the Canadian government's NAVCAN taxes, landing fees at Pearson, and the weak US dollar.
Without the new airport there would be no Southwest or the other low cost airlines. The NFTA went out of their way to build a terminal to suit Southwest. They went so far as to go over preliminary designs with Southwest before construction was authorized.

The Airport has gained 3 million passengers since it opened. 2 million of that gain is due to Canadians, one million are Buffalonians.

:nuts:NFTA Vision = BNIA and NFIA = emplanements doubling in 10 years, lower fares and more non-stops = vision = homestar wrongly exhibiting typical Buffalo cynisism for the sake of cynicism.

You can complain about lost opportunities of the past 40 years like a typical Buffalonian or you can go forward and build a better community starting now. Life is far too short to hang so tightly onto the past jst so you can place blame

When does that flight to the Netherlands start or whatever nonsense you posted on a few months ago as Jerome?

Why would anyone from Buffalo want to fly to the Netherlands? Has there been a large influx of dutch ex-patriots I missed?

Poland or Italy would be better destinations from Buffalo :)


Or the west coast ... please!!

Actually it is to be a full asset merger with a new University Hospital taking the place of ECMC or Buff General. To quote the Berger Com.:

"Eliminate duplication of services amongst
three facilities, part of which would entail
a full asset merger:
* Create NYS owned SUNY Hospital on
Buffalo Niagara Medical Campus
(BNMC) with a separate governance
structure that is aligned with the
SUNY/UB Medical School;

Consolidate Level I trauma, solid organ
transplant, open heart surgery, other
medical/surgical tertiary health care as
service lines;

* Consolidate inpatient behavioral health
and medical rehabilitation services."

Obviously you cannot consolidate and reduce total beds without a closure if you want to have higher quality patient care. I think that is what the Berger Com. member was getting at in his interview on ch 2. You should watch it, they will probably repeat it at 10 or 11 tonight sometimes they post their stories to their web site..

http://www.nyhealthcarecommission.org/docs/final/appendix2-westernrac.pdf

You are reading into that quite a bit.

:nuts:NFTA Vision = BNIA and NFIA = emplanements doubling in 10 years, lower fares and more non-stops = vision = homestar wrongly exhibiting typical Buffalo cynisism for the sake of cynicism.

You can complain about lost opportunities of the past 40 years like a typical Buffalonian or you can go forward and build a better community starting now. Life is far too short to hang so tightly onto the past just so you can place blame
I will give them credit where credit is due. We have a great airport and they have taken advantage of the Canadian market as well as attracted low cost airlines. I was talking more about the Trains, Buses, and Waterfront fiasco.

People have been talking about extending rail since the first phase was complete... we're talking 25 years now! The original project was always supposed to connect to UB North and yet they never pursued it, even during the 90's when surveys suggested the uptight Amherst residents would be open to it. People have been pushing extension ideas to the airport, to the galleria, to the southtowns, to the tonawandas, to Niag Falls, and yet the NFTA did nothing to pursue them.

Now it's 2008 and they're going to have some studies done so that another year from now they can start to think about maybe possibly doing something. Egad. I'm not getting my hopes up.

Obviously this is only a reaction to the higher cost of gas pushing people to take the trains and buses. Had they been proactively promoting themselves all along maybe we could have been at this level of ridership years ago instead of waiting for an oil crisis. What happens if they decide to extend the rail and then gas prices plummet? They can't depend on foreign energy policy for local transportation needs. They need to have more vision than that.

You are reading into that quite a bit.

Perhaps, and personally I don't care if ECMC stays or goes as long as overall healthcare is upgraded. I think if you can see the interview with Sloma on ch 2 you will get a far better feel for why this is not a done deal than I can provide in a few quick lines. I am certainly not saying the plan is doa but it's not a done deal either.

here is the text:

Healthcare Deal Reached
Posted by: Josh Boose Date last updated: 6/23/2008 11:15:35 PM Smaller Larger Print Article Close Page


A deal has been struck that will bring Erie County Medical Center and Kalieda Health together. Plus, a Berger Commission member speaks out on the agreement.

A deal has been struck that will possibly end litigation and months of fighting between Erie County Medical Center and Kalieda Health.

The deal will keep both ECMC and Buffalo General Hospital open.

More than a year ago, the state's Berger Commission mandated that both organizations find ways to collaborate to streamline healthcare in a declining economy. On Monday, both sides were in court where a judge approved the deal.

Now that the two sides have come together many are asking if this is what the Berger Commission had in mind when members set out to streamline and transform healthcare in western New York.

"I think all the effort the Berger Commission put forward has been lost," said Henry Sloma.

Sloma was a member of the Berger Commission. He says both Kalieda and ECMC didn't listen to its recommendations.

2 On Your Side's Josh Boose asked Sloma, "Buffalo General and ECMC will both stay open. Does this do what the Berger Commission recommended?

"We'll, it's just a piece of what Berger recommended," Sloma said. "Berger recommended taking buildings off line downtown Buffalo." "So the answer is?" Boose asked.

"No, it doesn't," Sloma replied.

"Western New York needs people who aren't afraid to make hard decisions," said Sloma. "That's what we need to do. We need to make hard decisions now that make positive decisions in the future."

"Do you think this was the easy way out for both sides?" Boose asked Sloma. "Well, I don't think it was easy," he said. "I think it was harmonious. And I think it was the one way they could get out and save face. They both got out with a piece of the pie."

Sloma says the problems, the entire reason the commission was created, are still there.

"There are still these buildings around the downtown area," said Sloma. "What are we going to do with those, because if we don't do anything with those, it's not progress."

WGRZ TV

I will give them credit where credit is due. We have a great airport and they have taken advantage of the Canadian market as well as attracted low cost airlines. I was talking more about the Trains, Buses, and Waterfront fiasco.

People have been talking about extending rail since the first phase was complete... we're talking 25 years now! The original project was always supposed to connect to UB North and yet they never pursued it, even during the 90's when surveys suggested the uptight Amherst residents would be open to it. People have been pushing extension ideas to the airport, to the galleria, to the southtowns, to the tonawandas, to Niag Falls, and yet the NFTA did nothing to pursue them.

Now it's 2008 and they're going to have some studies done so that another year from now they can start to think about maybe possibly doing something. Egad. I'm not getting my hopes up.

Obviously this is only a reaction to the higher cost of gas pushing people to take the trains and buses. Had they been proactively promoting themselves all along maybe we could have been at this level of ridership years ago instead of waiting for an oil crisis. What happens if they decide to extend the rail and then gas prices plummet? They can't depend on foreign energy policy for local transportation needs. They need to have more vision than that.

The past was hindered by a lack of money. Gone are the days when the feds will pay for 80% with the state paing the other 20%. Now with high energy prices the political pressure for an extension may be getting ripe for the picking.

But it is a bit disconcerting that they want to study an airport to downtown line. A lot of track that still basically serves just the city when most people and jobs are in the suburbs. My thought is that they could get more bang for the buck if they made a T connecting the airport with UB Amherst and Crosspoint via UB Main Street. That way you would give UB access to both the airport and downtown, You would also give city dwellers access to many job clusters in the suburbs. All with far less track and more convenience. You could go from Amherst to the airport or the airport to UB without having to go downtown - but could still get downtown easily from both locations.

Perhaps, and personally I don't care if ECMC stays or goes as long as overall healthcare is upgraded. I think if you can see the interview with Sloma on ch 2 you will get a far better feel for why this is not a done deal than I can provide in a few quick lines. I am certainly not saying the plan is doa but it's not a done deal either.

here is the text:

Healthcare Deal Reached
Posted by: Josh Boose Date last updated: 6/23/2008 11:15:35 PM Smaller Larger Print Article Close Page


A deal has been struck that will bring Erie County Medical Center and Kalieda Health together. Plus, a Berger Commission member speaks out on the agreement.

A deal has been struck that will possibly end litigation and months of fighting between Erie County Medical Center and Kalieda Health.

The deal will keep both ECMC and Buffalo General Hospital open.

More than a year ago, the state's Berger Commission mandated that both organizations find ways to collaborate to streamline healthcare in a declining economy. On Monday, both sides were in court where a judge approved the deal.

Now that the two sides have come together many are asking if this is what the Berger Commission had in mind when members set out to streamline and transform healthcare in western New York.

"I think all the effort the Berger Commission put forward has been lost," said Henry Sloma.

Sloma was a member of the Berger Commission. He says both Kalieda and ECMC didn't listen to its recommendations.

2 On Your Side's Josh Boose asked Sloma, "Buffalo General and ECMC will both stay open. Does this do what the Berger Commission recommended?

"We'll, it's just a piece of what Berger recommended," Sloma said. "Berger recommended taking buildings off line downtown Buffalo." "So the answer is?" Boose asked.

"No, it doesn't," Sloma replied.

"Western New York needs people who aren't afraid to make hard decisions," said Sloma. "That's what we need to do. We need to make hard decisions now that make positive decisions in the future."

"Do you think this was the easy way out for both sides?" Boose asked Sloma. "Well, I don't think it was easy," he said. "I think it was harmonious. And I think it was the one way they could get out and save face. They both got out with a piece of the pie."

Sloma says the problems, the entire reason the commission was created, are still there.

"There are still these buildings around the downtown area," said Sloma. "What are we going to do with those, because if we don't do anything with those, it's not progress."

WGRZ TV

He is talking about taking downtown buildings off line. That is the first I have heard that. I have heard of building new buildings downtown. There were a number of hospitals mentioned for out right closure one being Millard Fillmore on Gates Circle. I never heard closure for any downtown hospitals. Maybe he is one of those suburban freaks that calls everything in the city downtown. ECMC is one of the highest rated trauma centers in the country and I have heard that those services would be consolidated there so if you get a major injury they will not bring you anyplace else. It does mention that the guy WAS on the commission. Maybe he is sour grapes.

Forget about NFTA and their lack of vision, they couldn't afford it even if they wanted to expand (neither can most light rail systems in America), pressure should be put on Brian Higgins who sits on a transportation committee in the House of Representatives...I'm really hoping that the reauthorization of SAFETEA-LU in 2009 or 2010 will include significant increases in funding for mass transit in cities across the USA. From my research, sitting in on hearings, and going to panel discussions here in Washington DC...all indications are that (if money can be found errr ending the War in Iraq) there will be a lot more funding available for mass transit and a decrease in spending on upkeeping the roadway system.

Forget about NFTA and their lack of vision, they couldn't afford it even if they wanted to expand ... ...all indications are that (if money can be found errr ending the War in Iraq) there will be a lot more funding available for mass transit and a decrease in spending on upkeeping the roadway system.
The only way any federal money will result in local transit projects is if we have local leadership that can request that money and prove we have a good plan for it. The NFTA needs to find some vision, or else all that money will just go to other cities.

Good vision did not create the "boom" at BNIA. Some proof is as simple at looking at the projected growth in emplanements after completion of the new terminal. Aren't we at forecasted 2025 or so levels right now? Yeah, 17 years off, that's not vision. That's stumbling ass-backwards into good fortune.

Besides which, it's been said that the airport is "something we got right". So right there I don't think it's fair to group it in with all those other "failures" - not that Metrorail is a failure (in fact I think quite the opposite), and I have a good feeling in 10 years or so the waterfront will finally be off that list.

you absolutely need vision...my point was simply that currently a (quasi)govt entity can have all the vision in the world, but without a way to pay for the vision it almost doesn't matter. But hopefully in the next couple years if there is more money available from the Federal Govt for subway extensions and high speed rail then the vision can be realized.

What I would do right now if I were the NFTA is to study where and how many lines should be built. Yeah I know everything has been studied to death in the past, but they should get very serious about doing this in preparation for the possibility that it could be funded. I read through SAFETEA-LU the other day, there were like 10 or 15 earmarks just for WNY. In the next transportation bill, why not have one of our Congressmen put in a $200 million earmark for a couple new subway lines in Buff? Of course, electing Obama as our President would make it much more likely to be passed.

Good vision did not create the "boom" at BNIA. Some proof is as simple at looking at the projected growth in emplanements after completion of the new terminal. Aren't we at forecasted 2025 or so levels right now? Yeah, 17 years off, that's not vision. That's stumbling ass-backwards into good fortune.

Besides which, it's been said that the airport is "something we got right". So right there I don't think it's fair to group it in with all those other "failures" - not that Metrorail is a failure (in fact I think quite the opposite), and I have a good feeling in 10 years or so the waterfront will finally be off that list.

Being that BNI is 20 minutes from Niagara falls the passenger traffic level is pathetic.

Tobe out...good/bad? Seems like todays Buff News articles says it depends on the developer...

I'm still digesting the news of Joe Bruno's retirement. On one hand, :cheer::cheer: HE'S GONE!!!! :cheer::cheer:

On the other hand, his replacement is from Long Island. :bash::wallbash:

...could go either way...

Either way, looks like Albany's bubble (if you can really call it that) is about to deflate to the level of other Upstate metros.

Sen. Dean Skelos, a Nassau County Republican who has been in the Legislature since 1985, takes over at a critical time for his party as it attempts to maintain its razor-thin majority of a legislative house it has dominated for 70 years.

so the party of small government has been in control of NYS for 70 years and in the process built up the biggest most dysfunctional entity in the country

maybe (hopefully) having Obama running for President will effect down ballot elections like the NYS Legislature.

[COLOR="Sienna"]

so the party of small government has been in control of NYS for 70 years and in the process built up the biggest most dysfunctional entity in the country

It's quite the stretch of even the most vivid imagination to suggest that Republicans have been in control of NYS Government for 70 years. They have controlled the Senate for a bit over 40 years and not 70, they have seldom controlled the governorship and have never controlled the assembly.

The worry now is that with one party controlling all 3 branches spending will
really take off and upstate influence will be nil.

Their is a perfect storm brewing in Albany and upstate NY is in the line for a direct hit.

Study says Seneca's impact tops $1.1B

Business First of Buffalo - by James Fink Business First
The Seneca Nation of Indians has emerged as one of the region's largest employers and economic forces.

According to an economic impact study released Tuesday by the Seneca Nation of Indians, the tribe generated $1.136 billion in 2007 revenues while employing 6,311 people on a full-time basis. Just on employment figures alone, the Seneca Nation dwarfs HSBC Bank, M&T Bank and the Catholic Health System.

The bulk of the Senecas employment and economic strength comes from the three casinos it operates in the Buffalo Niagara region, which collectively has nearly 4,300 workers. Gaming revenues toppped $600 million last year.

"Unfortunately, not many people have taken the time to see what our numbers and our impact is," said Seneca Nation President Maurice John Sr.

John said Seneca employment has increased by more than 250 percent in the last few years, mainly due to the opening of the Seneca Niagara Casino & Resort, Seneca Allegany Casino & Resort and the Seneca Buffalo Creek Casino.

Seneca Gaming Corp., the nation's gambling arm, is expanding the hotel operations in Salamanaca and building the $333 million Seneca Buffalo Creek Casino on nine acres of sovereign territory in downtown Buffalo. Seneca Buffalo Creek is expected to open its permanent casino and hotel in 2010.

"People tend to focus on just cigarettes and casinos, but there is so much more to the Seneca Nation," John said.

Buffalo Mayor Byron Brown said because the Seneca Nation's operations are spread over five local territories ranging from the Southern Tier to Niagara County, it is hard to get a firm grasp on all the economic development until the figures are compiled together, as the just-released study did.

"People don't understand the full impact that the Senecas have on Western New York," Brown said. "It's not like a Ford factory where everyone is together. Their operations are clearly spread out."




All contents of this site © American


http://buffalo.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2008/06/23/daily21.html?t=printable

There will be no more Politician Worshipping in this thread! I'm sick of hearing about how "if so-and-so gets in then it will be good for Buffalo". It's a crock. Obama as president is NOT going to be any better for Buffalo than McCain. Two years ago it was about how Spitzer would be great for Buffalo. Before that it was electing Clinton as Senator would be great for Buffalo. You people never learn!

I'm sorry, you are correct, I should have put my comment on the non development thread, this thread is not the place for it. I will refrain from that in the future.

That wasn't even directed at you.
And I know I'm off topic but I had to say it.

I know, but I too posted a political comment that is better suited to the other thread.

So what are your thoughts about a rail linr going from BNIA to UB Amherst via UB Main?

There will be no more Politician Worshipping in this thread! I'm sick of hearing about how "if so-and-so gets in then it will be good for Buffalo". It's a crock. Obama as president is NOT going to be any better for Buffalo than McCain. Two years ago it was about how Spitzer would be great for Buffalo. Before that it was electing Clinton as Senator would be great for Buffalo. You people never learn!

That wasn't even directed at you.
And I know I'm off topic but I had to say it.

Ok then I think it is safe to assume that it was directed at me. I wasn't worshipping Obama. I was just saying that with McCain's anti-earmark rhetoric and Obama's pro-multi-modal approach to transportation rhetoric it would mean that Buffalo (or any city) would have a greater chance of getting federal funding for metro-rail expansion under a President Obama. If you don't agree please make a counter argument, don't make erroneous accusations! :) Btw, I still think Buffalo is better off for having Spitzer/Patterson and Schumer/Clinton than not.

The worry now is that with one party controlling all 3 branches spending will
really take off and upstate influence will be nil.

Their is a perfect storm brewing in Albany and upstate NY is in the line for a direct hit.
The only way I see it being a good thing is that it may help accelerate the inevitable collapse of the state government. Sometimes I swear that's what Spitzer was trying to do - accelerate and make it shake itself apart - think of it as an old engine built in the '20s and last maintained in the '50s. It doesn't have much mileage left. Almost Gorbachev-esque.

I don't know about Patterson, though. For one, he's buddies with Byron and I bet you're going to see the City control board relaxed. Not a good thing.

I view that State Govt being controlled by one party as a possible good thing, less gridlock, more action. Though, as Sabretooth pointed out, if spending and taxes get much more out of control then I can see the state imploding. But we're dealing with the same thing at the national level as well, so maybe out whole system is heading for collapse.

It certainly is unsustainable. And considering the very definition of entropy, that all systems in nature degrade over time...it's a given. Might as well put your money into that, it's not doing any good investing in this "economy".

Entropy should be traded as a commodity on the NYMEX. :lol: After someone cracks down on the oil speculator/terrorist funders, they can put their money into that.

DL&W terminal again eyed for re-use

A joint agreement between the Niagara Frontier Transportation Authority and the Erie Canal Harbor Development Corp. could lead the way for portions of the historic DL&W Terminal to be restored as a hub for local museums.

Talks are underway between the NFTA, which owns the circa 1917 building that sits directly behind HSBC Arena and overlooks the Buffalo River, and the Erie Canal Harbor Development Corp. A deal could ultimately see the harbor development agency take control of terminal's second floor. The NFTA uses the ground floor for maintaining and store its Metro Rail cars.

The upper floors has more than 100,000-square-foot of large, wide-span space that has sat vacant for decades.

"It's just a discussion at this time," said Jordan Levy, ECHDC chairman.

The NFTA and ECHDC has a close working relationship. The two state agencies are talking about 120 acres of prime, waterfront land along Buffalo's outer harbor area being designated to the ECHDC. The NFTA has owned the land for decades.

NFTA officials said they prefer to focus on their primary mission of running local bus and rapid transit services along with operating the Buffalo Niagara International Airport and Niagara Falls International Airport.

Transforming the DL&W's upper floor into a viable use has been discussed for years. At various times, it has been mentioned as possible casino site, home to a new convention center and indoor farmer's market and retail hub. None of the plans ever left the drawing board.

"Museums would seem to make sense," said Greg Stamm, NFTA chairman.

Stamm said the NFTA only needs the ground floor for its Metro Rail operations.

"We don't need what's above it," he said. "Why should we sit on something, if someone has something that makes sense."

Bringing a series of museums together in the DL&W Terminal could fit in with other redevelopment efforts that are taking place along Buffalo's Inner Harbor, including the recent opening of the $53 million Central Wharf project.

The Niagara Aerospace Museum is expected to re-locate from Niagara Falls to downtown Buffalo and is reportedly headed for a temporary home in HSBC Arena. The aerospace museum is being considered as a possible anchor tenant for the DL&W Terminal's second floor, if the deal can be struck between the NFTA and the harbor development corporation.

"We are definitely receptive," Stamm said. "Actually, we're glad to see that this idea is high on a lot people's agenda."

http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2008/06/23/daily27.html?surround=lfn

That upper floor could be Buffalos new convention center.

Isn't that bigger than the current one.

Awful idea, i'm sorry. If we are ever going to get something to replace our current convention center it better be significantly larger than the DL & W. The top of the DL & W should something like a restaurant or touristy museum.

Wouldn't there be an odor problem in that building? The first floor is the Metrorail garage, so wouldn't the upstairs smell like the inside of Midas?

I'm not going to go to an attraction that gives me headaches, I don't care how interested in the subject I may be.

Forget about the smell, the last thing we need is another convention center that is 1/3 or 1/4th the size that it really needs to be to attract something other than a bridal convention.

Aerospace museum to land in Buffalo

The Niagara Aerospace Museum is destined for a new name and home in Buffalo, thanks to a $1 million bequest from a longtime trustee.

The museum, which closed its doors this past January, has been housed in Niagara Falls. On Friday, G. Wayne Hawk, president of the museum, announced the planned relocation to Buffalo under a new name -- Ira G. Ross Aeropsace Museum.

The changes are part of a $1 million gift to the museum from the late Dr. Elizabeth Olmsted Ross, who had advocated an address change for several years.

Earlier this week, officials from the Erie Canal Harbor Development Corp. acknowledged they are seeking to acquire the former DL&W Terminal and potentially convert the upper portion of the property into a site for museums. The lower floors are used by the site's owner, the Niagara Frontier Transportation Authority. HSBC Arena, adjacent to the terminal, is considered as the likely temporary stop for the aerospace museum.

Ira Ross, who died in 1999 at the age of 84, was a pioneering physicist and engineer. He oversaw the flight research department at Curtiss-Wright Corp., and later headed Cornell Aeronautical Laboratories.


http://www.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2008/06/23/daily54.html?jst=b_ln_hl

That upper floor could be Buffalos new convention center.

Isn't that bigger than the current one.

No, it's about ten thousand sq feet smaller.

Too bad about Gates Circle condo's looks like they are going the way of the Buffalo City Tower. Per ch 2 news ...."Rising costs are causing a developer to take a hard look at a condo project slated for Buffalo's Gates Circle neighborhood.

Uniland development says the cost of steel and other raw materials is going up. That's why the company is not committing ..."

see video at ch 2 web site

^^ Why not post the full article???

http://www.wgrz.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=58971&catid=37

Rising costs are causing a developer to take a hard look at a condo project slated for Buffalo's Gates Circle neighborhood.

Uniland development says the cost of steel and other raw materials is going up. That's why the company is not committing to a definite groundbreaking date for its Gates Circle condominium project.

Back in April, we reported Uniland will not be breaking ground this year. Today, a company spokesperson told us they're still committed to the project.
----------------------------------------------------------------
I don't buy the high steel cost reason. Uniland is building a big steel office building in front of the one they built 2-3 years ago on Sheridan.

No, it's about ten thousand sq feet smaller.

Thanks:okay:

^^ Why not post the full article???

http://www.wgrz.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=58971&catid=37

Rising costs are causing a developer to take a hard look at a condo project slated for Buffalo's Gates Circle neighborhood.

Uniland development says the cost of steel and other raw materials is going up. That's why the company is not committing to a definite groundbreaking date for its Gates Circle condominium project.

Back in April, we reported Uniland will not be breaking ground this year. Today, a company spokesperson told us they're still committed to the project.
----------------------------------------------------------------
I don't buy the high steel cost reason. Uniland is building a big steel office building in front of the one they built 2-3 years ago on Sheridan.

There's also still an appeal pending against the project. So they can't commit to a start date. But I also heard the same thing, that rising costs are a big concern. On the other hand, the Dulski condos- prices and sales- are going to blow your mind. Don't bet against Uniland.

Gates circle hit a perfect storm. With huge growth in China construction material costs have gone through the roof. The cost of putting up a building has nearly doubled in the last 5 years! Add to that fuel costs and the credit crunch it becomes tough to build anywhere these days.

If Dulski er uhm Aveeeyant sells out fast look for it to go ahead. I just hope they don't cheap down the curtain wall too much

I doubt they will shorten it because the tops floors will be the ones selling for 7 figures. No one will pay $1M to look out their window at another apartment building

Gates circle hit a perfect storm. With huge growth in China construction material costs have gone through the roof. The cost of putting up a building has nearly doubled in the last 5 years! Add to that fuel costs and the credit crunch it becomes tough to build anywhere these days.

This is very bad news... not so much for Gates Circle, which I think will still get built due to its truly Luxury resale... but for normal everyday office developements and apartments. How can anything less than luxury get built now with material costs going thru the roof?

Gates circle hit a perfect storm. With huge growth in China construction material costs have gone through the roof.

Too bad there are almost no steel mills left in this country, too bad our steel making capacity is less han half of what it was 30 years ago.

Too bad there are almost no steel mills left in this country, too bad our steel making capacity is less han half of what it was 30 years ago.

this is true. my Dad went through two steel plant closures in Canada.
Atlas Steel (the only specialized stainless steel plant in Canada) in my hometown of Welland, Ontario shut down 6 years ago and a small steel mill in Hamilton (Hamilton Specialty Bar) shut down last year.

My dad is now Chief Metallurgist at a "mini" steel mill in Darlington, SC (home of the Nascar "too tough to tame" track. lol)

Now we get inferior product made in countries like China. :ohno:

Running from Wigs for not calling him....but here are some shots I got from a hard hat tour of Pasqaule this afternoon:

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/9213/dsc0576hi6.jpg

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/3775/dsc0600li2.jpg

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/1572/dsc0602tg5.jpg

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/213/dsc0606hc7.jpg

http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/2060/dsc0610ch1.jpg

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/4374/dsc0611nn3.jpg

Sorry about the spot on the lens....($*&%(#$*!!!!!!!

Commercial real estate agents rarely relocate
Business First of Buffalo - by Tracey Drury Business First

:banana::lol:When George Hamberger decided to resign last year after 18 years at Hunt Commercial Real Estate Corp., almost immediately he began to get calls from other commercial real estate firms. A month or two later, he agreed to represent Realty USA.
Hamberger had never sought out opportunities away from Hunt, mostly because of a close relationship with the late Stuart Hunt, a longtime mentor and friend. After Hunt's death, Hamberger worked at the brokerage for a while, then decided it was time for a change.
"Things changed when he was gone and to me, it wasn't the same place it was for all those years I had been there," he says. "So I thought, what might be a better fit for me?"
"When you have a certain reputation, people believe you might be an asset to their company," he says.
As a top broker for many years, Hamberger's availability looking for a new employer could be likened to what happens when a prime piece of real estate goes on the market. Such opportunities for commercial real estate agencies to snare a top agent are few and far between.
Tim Hourihan, manager of Realty USA's commercial division, says there's historically been very little movement between commercial brokers in town between agencies. Part of the reason is the pool of potential brokers is relatively small: 150 commercial brokers, versus 3,000-plus on the residential side.
Independent contractors
And because brokers work as independent contractors, there isn't much a company can offer in the way of salary or benefits to sweeten the pot. Mostly, a shift could develop out of relationships, Hourihan says.
"If you really look around, it's fairly rare. There's not a lot of movement," he says.
Dave Harris, office manager for the commercial division at MJ Peterson Real Estate, says it is extremely difficult to get a top agent to move, not only from one commercial firm to another, but even from residential to commercial.
"Basically, they're happy where they're at," he says.
Lou Izzo, president of Hunt Real Estate Corp.'s residential brokerage arm, says brand recognition and loyalty goes a long way toward keeping agents at the same firm for most of their careers. Hunt's commercial brokerage has a history dating to 1911. And corporate clients tend to stick with the same broker for many years, or at least the same brokerage.
"It might be 10 years between (contracts), but the agent will maintain that relationship with the client," he says. "We're like a big neighborhood. Commercial is really a big neighborhood and the agents are more stable."
And that loyalty, those relationships just tend to trump incentives like higher commission rates, Izzo says. A long-standing relationship with a leading corporate entity usually goes much further, he says.
"You can dangle money in front of someone to get their attention, but what you're really dangling are your business contacts, your company's reputation and its integrity and its business contacts," he says. "Those opportunities can be pretty important to a commercial agent."



All contents of this site © American City Business Journals Inc. All rights reserved

sweet, Jerome is back!

Jerome, that article doesn't help your argument about G. Hamberger. You still didn't know what real estate company he worked for when you flipped out on me and the Buffalo News for correctly stating the name of his current company.

How is he keeping track of all the different names he uses

Wow Ecoast must be off his game. That Livery story in the Snews today slipped right by him.

Developer plans to convert crumbling livery stable into residences
By Matt Gryta - News Staff Reporter
Updated: 07/01/08 12:11 PM

One of the city's major property developers has agreed to buy the crumbling Jersey Street livery for $1 with plans to renovate the three-story brick landmark as residential property, the city announced today.

Sam Savarino and his Savarino Cos. will purchase the White Bros. Livery & Boarding Stable from longtime owner Robert Freudenheim, said Corporation Counsel Alisa A. Lukasiewicz.

The city has been doing some emergency demolition work to stabilize the 138-year-old architectural masterpiece while suing Freudenheim for the costs and for the demolition of another of his properties.

Freudenheim attorney Jennifer Persico told a judge today she expects the property transfer to be completed within 48 hours.

State Supreme Court Justice Christopher J. Burns, whose three-week effort led to what all sides in the dispute believe is the best of solutions, vowed to continue monitoring the situation after being notified of the development. He put off further court proceedings until Sept. 2.

During a mid-morning court session, Lukasiewicz said the city -- which had opted to spend $397,000 to save the crumbling horse barn -- will file a lien on the property in that amount.

With the city eventually seeking payment of that new lien for the continuing costs of work on the property, Lukasiewicz said the court case the city launched last week against Freudenheim to recover demolition costs already incurred "will continue."

The city originally ordered a total demolition of the livery because of the danger the dilapidated structure posed to nearby homeowners. On the advice of the city, five families temporarily moved out of their homes because of safety concerns about the crumbling structure.

Burns, the prime architect in the effort to save the historic livery from total demolition, lauded all sides from the bench, saying the Savarino purchase "makes sense" for the neighborhood and the safety of its residents.

Power Authority seeks home for Niagara River ice boom
Buffalo industrial site under consideration
By Sharon Linstedt NEWS BUSINESS REPORTER
Updated: 07/01/08 8:07 AM

The 1.7-mile-long Niagara River ice boom might have a new off-season home on the banks of the Buffalo River.

The New York Power Authority, the keeper of the massive ice blocker, is targeting an industrial site just off the Buffalo River, along Hamburg Street, as the boom’s new dry land home.

Power authority representatives recently conducted soil borings on a parcel owned by Killian Bulk Transfer, a trucking firm, located near the corner of Hamburg and South streets. Owner Jack Killian confirmed the authority has expressed interest in a portion of his property, but said no deal has been struck.

“So far they’re just looking around and checking it out,” Killian said.

Power authority spokesman Michael Salzman echoed that statement.

“We are committed to relocating the ice boom storage site, but no final destination has been reached at this point,” Salzman said.

The power authority pledged to relocate the current storage site — a 13- acre parcel on the city’s outer harbor, off Fuhrmann Boulevard — as part of its 2007 federal relicensing agreement, which was agreed to in 2005. The power agency had targeted a property on Ganson Street with Buffalo River frontage, but a purchase deal failed to gel.

The Erie Canal Harbor Development Corp., which is overseeing redevelopment of the city’s waterfront, has been urging the authority to pick up the pace of its site search to insure the boom doesn’t return to the outer harbor site next spring.

As soon as the power authority finds a new off-season home for the massive boom, the harbor agency will gain ownership of the land.

Long-term, the land is a strategic piece in the nearly 200- acre puzzle the state-sanctioned agency will oversee on the outer harbor. It abuts a 13-acre site the New York Power Authority has agreed to turn over to the development corporation as soon as it finds an alternative off-season storage place for the Niagara River ice boom. The parcel is also adjacent to more than 100 acres of land controlled by the Niagara Frontier Transportation Authority which will be leased to the harbor corporation in the next few months.

The boom, which is composed of 22 500-foot-long pontoons, is strung across the entrance to the Niagara River each winter season to prevent pieces of the Lake Erie ice pack from damaging Niagara Power Project water intakes located downstream.
----------------------------
Looks like the outer harbor might actually happen.

St. Martin's Village Project
http://buffalorising.com/img/img_entries/w600/20610.jpg
Today, 11:18am By John M Straubinger

The St. Martin's Village Project will revive the site and several of the buildings of the German Catholic Orphanage at 564 Dodge Street on the city's East Side, near the Kensington Expressway.

The current plans for the 9-building complex have 4 of its current buildings, including the chapel, being restored. The other buildings will be demolished, and 3 new buildings will join the site for a 7 building complex that will house 60 units of affordable housing apartments. R & P Oak Hill Development of Hamburg will be involved from the construction side, with the design work performed by Silvestri Architects P.C. of Amherst.

UB Law School Professor George M. Hezel, through the Law School's Affordable Housing Clinic, and the Community Action Organization of Erie County are involved in the project. St. Martin's Village was moving through the various economic development agencies and boards of the City of Buffalo in a timely fashion late this past Winter and early Spring. However, the project was withdrawn from their agendas temporarily because of staff changes at Silvestri and the need for short term financing. The project should move forward once these problems are taken care of.

With the recent controversies over demolition of historic buildings, It's good to see a plan that preserves the site and some of the buildings of the German Catholic Orphanage, a complex that is prized and admired by many.

Wow Ecoast must be off his game. That Livery story in the Snews today slipped right by him.

I'm on vacation. :)

You better be spending those vacation dollars in Buffalo. ;)

Sleeping six hours (due to 18 mos. old niece) in OP, but spending other 18 hours in the city. :)

More Avant views:

http://buffalorising.com/story/million_dollar_views#sca

double

triple!

Movement is afoot for Toronto Raptors games in Buffalo
Bills-Toronto model prompts effort to attract NBA team for Regular Season games in HSBC Arena

article moved to sports thread.

Yawning make-over for Elmwood/Auburn Wilson Farms:

http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/636/622bn20080702b008severavy8.jpg

http://www.buffalonews.com/businesstoday/localbusiness/story/383205.html

Wow, that's a failure in urban design.

What with all these double posts?

^ hey it's actually a lot better than the current Wilson Farms
even if the redesign is 90% EIFS :lol:

:)

I would imagine with gas prices and such, that demand for something like Colvin Estates would only be increasing, and probably by the day.

How good are the chances that Wilson Farms can be convinced by the Elmwood Assoc. to redesign their store from the ground up... build to the corner and add a second floor?

They were somehow able to to it with the bank... but this is a situation where the store is already in operation. (The bank wasn't)

What will happen to a building like Millard Fillmore Gates Circle Hospital?
Updated: July 3, 2008 01:16 PM EDT

[ ... ]

As part of the agreement, Millard Fillmore Gates Circle Hospital is moving forward with its plan to close. So what's the latest for the facility that has been a central part of the community for nearly a century?

Mike Hughes (Kaleida Health) said, "There's been a lot of interest from developers, real estate companies and out of town interests." Kaleida Health spokesman Mike Hughes says there's been discussion about using the space for apartment buildings or condominiums. One developer has mentioned a complete demolition of the cite to rebuild a smaller neighborhood complete with housing and retail shops. "There's national hospital re-use companies that are interested. That's not a new trend. Hospitals open and close every day."

[ ... ]


WIVB

I like the sound of that last option.

Any updates on the casino?

When I'm in Buffalo next week, I'll do a photo update of the major projects going on. The pics I posted of the casino about 4 weeks ago should still be available for viewing, but I'll def make sure to get a casino update. I haven't been down there in 4-5 weeks but I think it is safe to assume there isn't a 22 story structure up yet. In May it was just a bunch of cranes and some vehicles moving dirt around.

A major ruling on the casino's legality is expected this week. Should be interesting.

It still looks like a crane convention:

http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/1210/dsc0062ui8.jpg

Nearby Benlin warehouse rehab:

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/4089/dsc0066uv4.jpg

Any updates on the casino?

Major setback was dealt to anti-Casino a-holes!


Dice roll faster on downtown Buffalo casino project


Updated: July 4, 2008 09:08 AM EDT


BUFFALO, N.Y. (WIVB) - A state judge has dealt the Seneca Nation a winning hand. He's dismissed one of the final obstacles in the way of the largest private development project in Buffalo history.

Bob Knoer (The Knoer Group) said, "We will, in all honesty, be appealing this decision."

Thursday morning, Judge Stanley Makowski ruled that the Seneca Nation has immunities from Buffalo city rules and regulations, allowing construction of the Buffalo Creek Casino to go forward.

Attorney Bob Knoer says he'll continue to argue his case for people who live near the development.

Knoer said, "We are going to be placing in the middle of this a Seneca development which pays no taxes. The hotel will pay no bed taxes. They have no obligation to follow our rules regarding nuisances, noise, odor, dust, whatever."

Pending his appeal, another legal battle to stop the casino will be decided in Federal Court next week.

Joel Rose is one of the plaintiffs in that case.

Casino opponent Joel Rose said, "I'm cautiously optimistic that we will win. That would mean that the land on which the Buffalo Creek Casino is situated is not gambling eligible."

Meanwhile, construction continues at the Seneca Buffalo Creek site.

Seneca Gaming spokesman Phil Pantano says Thursday's ruling affirms the Senecas have followed the letter of the law. He's confident they'll win in federal court next week.

Phil Pantano said, "What we've said all along is that the Seneca Nation has followed the letter of the law, and there were certain federal procedures that had to be followed throughout and have been followed throughout."

People we spoke with near the temporary Buffalo Casino have mixed reactions about plans moving forward.

Buffalo resident Frank Miller said, "I think it's a good idea because of the jobs that they've created."

Orchard Park resident Meg Moore said, "As far as a casino in Buffalo, I've gone up to Niagara Falls before and had a great time, and that's not such a bad drive."

The permanent Buffalo Creek Casino is expected to be completed by spring of 2010, complete with a five star hotel. The federal ruling is expected to come down Tuesday afternoon.

A major ruling on the casino's legality is expected this week. Should be interesting.

I heard Sketny's decision is over 120 pages long. Not sure what you can read into that- but likely just covering his behind since it will be appealed no matter who 'wins.'

The decision on the street sale is insignificant- Skretny's ruling is the real deal.

I think the casino lawsuit should be dropped. I mean under Pataki he agreed to let the Senecas operate 3 casinos in WNY and give them sovereign nation status on the properties and land they own. the deal was made. let it be.
that said do I agree with casino gambling, not really but let the freaking thing go ahead, as the Senecas aren't waiting for any "ruling."

I think the casino lawsuit should be dropped. I mean under Pataki he agreed to let the Senecas operate 3 casinos in WNY and give them sovereign nation status on the properties and land they own. the deal was made. let it be.
State Governors, by themselves, do not have the authority to give away US land to sovereign nations. That decision is a federal one.

Well, Pataxmi thought he could. And without any local impact, too. All while giving the state a cut of revenues just for existing (and thus acting to perpetuate the crack errr spending addiction). Talk about a sweetheart deal.

Anybody who sees the allowance of the Seneca casinos as anything more than yet another gimmick for state government is dead wrong. They don't give a crap about the Senecas (as is seen in every other dealing) nor the taxpayers who will or will not patronize the casino.

Well, Pataxmi thought he could. And without any local impact, too. All while giving the state a cut of revenues just for existing (and thus acting to perpetuate the crack errr spending addiction). Talk about a sweetheart deal.

Anybody who sees the allowance of the Seneca casinos as anything more than yet another gimmick for state government is dead wrong. They don't give a crap about the Senecas (as is seen in every other dealing) nor the taxpayers who will or will not patronize the casino.


Pipe down, you're starting to sound like one of those "anti-Casino a-holes"
How dare you question this economic development!!!!

The whole idea that the state gets such a large cut of the revenue is what these goofballs should be protesting. Imagine the problems that could be solved if Buffalo got all the government share of the casino take

That's really been the crux of my argument against it all along: the state getting a cut of the revenue, and the tax-free nature of the casino.

Not even so much the city not getting property taxes, that doesn't bother me. What bothers me is this is supposed to promote secondary development. Obviously the inherent design of a casino (to keep people inside) is 'bad' enough, but we have to throw in the tax-free carrot as well? Who in their right mind would set up shop across the street from that? Unless you offered something the casino couldn't (something that a casino patron would want, no less)...but what would that be? (I'm asking both seriously and rhetorically...I'm not a casino patron nor will I be...my entire gambling history can be summed up in a $20 CAD (back when that was only about $14-15 US) loss at Casino de Hull in 1999.)

I think it's just as likely that the casino in and of itself is going to act to freeze the Cobblestone area in its current state. Under these business conditions. What's going to save that neighborhood is continued redevelopment re: lofts/condos etc.

And not that horriffic Metrorail loop proposal. I'd rather see 5 tax-free casinos scattered throughout the city.

What bothers me is this is supposed to promote secondary development.
:ohno:Where was this ever publically stated by either the Seneca's or the State?
I googled the subject and the only people that seem to ever bring up spinoff development are the anti-casino folks.

One of the early registrants at the Housing Tour on the 28th was signing in and I saw that she lived at Elk Terminal Lofts. I asked, "Either you're conducting espionage for First Amherst or are looking to move." She looked at me and said, "Once that f$$$ing casino opens, I'm outta there."

I asked the leasing rep from First Amherst if they thought the casino would hurt or help. She said it will likely be a wash- some don't want to be anywhere near the place, others will see it as an amenity being across the street. I did hear a couple years ago that First Amherst dropped plans to build new units on an adjacent site until they see what impact the casino will have. They were talking of adding 50 units down there at one point.

The whole idea that the state gets such a large cut of the revenue is what these goofballs should be protesting. Imagine the problems that could be solved if Buffalo got all the government share of the casino take

Amen, but only if they were required to use it for economic development and not to run day to day operations.

The way it is set up I would expect a dollar for dollar reduction in State aid to Buffalo in the amount that the city gets from the Casino. In effect the State will end up keeping 100% of the Casino take.

Still the Casino is a win for the City in the 1,000 plus jobs with benefits. No one else is providing that many new jobs WITH benefits within the City.

She looked at me and said, "Once that f$$$ing casino opens, I'm outta there.". She sounds like a real class act!:lol:

:ohno:Where was this ever publically stated by either the Seneca's or the State?
I googled the subject and the only people that seem to ever bring up spinoff development are the anti-casino folks.
What good is the casino if it doesn't? It's a tax free entity essentially plopped there by the state government. It is no more economic development than is the new courthouse. Just another shiny building for the "progress no matter how small at any cost" crowd to jerk off to.

What good is the casino if it doesn't? It's a tax free entity essentially plopped there by the state government. It is no more economic development than is the new courthouse. Just another shiny building for the "progress no matter how small at any cost" crowd to jerk off to.
You are free to believe that the 6,311 jobs WITH health insurance and retirement benefits are no more economic development than the new courthouse if you so choose, that is your right no matter how incorrect your logic is. My point is that the Casino was never touted by either the Seneca's or the State to have spinoff benefits. Both the Seneca's and the State have delivered what they said they were going to deliver. In the case of the Seneca's they have delivered more decent paying jobs than they originally said they were going to deliver. Spinoff development is up to non Seneca's. The Seneca's are running their business and making big bucks. If other developers do not wish to try and capture a peice of all that traffic then that is their fault and not the fault of the Seneca's or the State.

If you can show me where anyone connected with the Seneca's have ever stated that their Casino's would have a spinoff effect then please post a link to such a statement. To the contrary I have seen repeated comments on the TV news where Seneca leaders have stated that the Casino would NOT BE a silver bullet.

Seriously, do you work for the state or have a vested interest in its status quo? Or is it beacuse you don't want to question the 2nd or 3rd most socialist government in the western hemisphere?

The state is the prime culprit here, as it usually is with virtually every problem that occurs in that plot of land in the US bounded by Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Connecticut, Massachusetts, and Vermont. I'm not against the Senecas in any way on this matter. It's the state that set the rules, the rules I'm complaining about. Maybe it seems like I am sometimes, but the english language is only so good; I'm really not. They have as much a right to make a buck as you or I do, and they've done quite well to adapt to the rules to pull themselves up by the bootstraps out of the sorry hand they had been dealt (pun not intended). I don't smoke, buy their gas, or patronize their casinos but that doesn't mean I wish them failure.

Imagine if it were a more equitable arrangement, and proper planning had occured (yeah, impossible with all the great minds in power I know, but hear me out). We could [have] had their/our 1,100 casino jobs (or whatever it is, the exact number is irrelevant really) and who knows how many more in a spinoff role. But let's just dismiss what we could have had had we done it right, because at least we got something [out of an arrangement with which we had no input]. Perhaps Fulton Street's pavement aggregate would have exploded if the local governments were to receive the entire government cut, or maybe just as simple as G. Elmer Pataxmi being afraid the taxpayer fund for comb-over grease was going to run out?

If only the state put as much effort into growing its economy as the Senecas have. Maybe then we wouldn't have the ruins of upstate pitted against the "everything is just peachy" just beginning to sputter engine of New York City. Buffalo's failures are simply a microcosm of the state, nothing more and nothing less. Just as Newton got beaned by an apple, s*it rolls downhill. They've done more in less time selling but a few things that'll kill you than this state can do with the friggin' financial capital of the world on one end and a natural wonder on the other and just about everything else in between.

More power to the Senecas - may they become the nation's 51st state.

What would you have done to create the spinoff? Corporate welfare?

If by corporate welfare we mean improving business climate, then yes. The welfare of the businesses and individuals resident within needs to be tweaked ever so slightly.

If the casino were a merited project without all the odds stacked towards it, corporate welfare would not be needed. Who knows, maybe it will actually work out favorably. Hopefully so, given there's no way out.

The argument could be made that both the state government and the Senecas are on the receiving end of corporate welfare by the very essence of the deal. Obviously it can't hold a candle to, say, what Ralph Wilson is given, but that's like arguing the that cons to so-called "clean coal" are more favorable than dependence on foreign oil. May be better, but it's still going to kill you in the end.

So you are anti energy independence as well. ehhh!:)

Well, as long as you ask!

I'm against clean coal (biggest oxymoron in the world - read up on "mountaintop removal"), against foreign oil (ambivalent towards domestic oil - we need something to tide us over), indifferent towards nuclear, and for anything renewable as long as it makes reasonable economic sense (hydropower, wind, etc.). Problem with oil is we need it for more than energy - plastics, etc. - so it doesn't make sense to not ween ourselves from it for energy, and soon. Oh, and I believe ethanol has merit but as it's applied now, in this country, is possibly the greatest scam ever perpetrated against the American poplace by its "own" government.

Personally I think hydrogen fusion (most abundant element in the universe) and/or microwave/satellite solar power (always sunny in high earth orbit!) is the way to go. And there's always the possibility of something far-fetched I haven't heard of yet, something that with technology in even just a few years might be entirely possible. Like when someone figures out how to transmit energy wirelessly (like the aliens in "Independence Day") if that's even physically possible. Goodbye gas stations whenever that happens.

For what it's worth... :)

The current judicial decision has nothing to do with the casino directly. They are determining whether the state legally granted the Senecas sovereign land. Handing away land to sovereign nations obviously is not something the states can do without proper federal approval. Some think that there was not proper federal approval.

Of course if they determine that to be the case then it opens a can of worms about whether the casino can still move forward... and would probably could have a serious impact on the NF casino that's been in operation for several years.

Something tells me the decision will not be cut-and-dry, and there will be wins and losses on both sides. Hopefully the end result will benefit Buffalo more than the current aggreement does.

And well beyond Niagara Falls, think of the precedents nationwide.

Which basically means that the judge will most assurredly rule in favor of the State and the Seneca's.

Judges don't rule by convenience. And especially since the Buffalo Casino has not been built yet, AND the lawsuit started well before construction, there will be little sympathy for their situation. NF may be a different story.

The Senecas will not lose a dime no matter what happens. The suit is against the state. The Senecas are following their contract with the state. If the state can not follow through with their portion of the bargain I am sure that the Senecas will be well compensated.

Yay, more taxes and user fees for us!

Maybe they'll find some unrelated technicality that finds the NYS constitution was ratifed illegally and we'll have to start over again. I can dream, can't I?

nobody knows what will happen once the casino opens, lets just build it and see where the chips fall (no pun intended)...then in say 2011 revisit this debate and see how positive/negative the casino has impacted the community. Who knows maybe the casino will cause Paladino to renovate the Coffee Rich/Arctic Freezer building. Maybe it will cause the Perry Projects to be demolished and built into much needed townhouses. Maybe those parking lots in the Cobblestone District will be built into a nice entertainment district. Maybe this casino will cause the NFTA to build more subway lines. The damn casino is under construction already, i'm exhausted from this 4 or 5 year topic.

Yay, more taxes and user fees for us!

Maybe they'll find some unrelated technicality that finds the NYS constitution was ratifed illegally and we'll have to start over again. I can dream, can't I?Every 10 years New Yorker's have the opportunity to vote for a constitutional convention. Every 10 years the good citizens of NY vote not to have one. Do not blame the politicians for the way New York is, blame the citizens. The people of New York have the government we choose to have.

True, New Yorkers are a woefully ignorant and arguably stupid lot (not totally unlike Americans in general) who are obviously fearful of change. (I remember seeing a bumper sticker to that effect once on the Kensington, I wish I knew where he got it from.) But it doesn't help when we're (we're being just about everybody north and west of Poughkeepsie) getting dragged against our will because of a portion of the population that prefers things this way.

This state is too bi-polar, and I have trouble finding a way things will ever settle out, unless somebody comes up with the revelation that "hey, downstate is actually lagging the rest of the country pretty good, and what's good for upstate will in theory also be good for downstate" - obviously we know vice versa doesn't work, but this deserves a chance. Until that day, or until such a day that the state as run as two "autonomous" entities under a single central government, any "One New York" policy is doomed to as spectacular a failure as a "One China" (mainland + Taiwan) policy. Truthfully speaking, we can say New York has been a failure since the legislative and executive chambers were essentially hijacked 20-30 years ago, but in all honesty Albany (and NYC) governments have always been quite colorful not to mention a cesspool of corruption.

The State could help out upstate by basing laws upon population as some other states do. For example any commuinity over 300,000 could be a class A municipality and any under could be a Class B. Or counties with over 1,000,000 and those under. Then laws could be passed with different provisions for the different classes.
This was done back in the 1970's when the original NY State "pooper scooper" law was passed. It only applied to cities with a population in excess of 400,000 which at that time meant NY City and Buffalo. This could be done under the current State constitution and could be applied to social service programs as well, if the political will was there.

The state is the prime culprit here, as it usually is with virtually every problem that occurs in that plot of land in the US bounded by Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Connecticut, Massachusetts, and Vermont. .

Why do so many WNY'er choose to take the easy way out and blame the State instead of taking responsibility? All of our problems are always someone else's fault, either Albany, or the Seneca's or Washington. Poor, poor Buffalo, always the victim. I know it's easier to blame Albany and then sit back and whine than it is to actually move forward, but the fact is a great number of Buffalo's problems are self-inflicted. The State is not the entire problem; look at Saratoga County - population up over 20% so far this decade, look at Lake George same State as Niagara Falls, yet it is a booming tourist mecca.

Or look at other successful cities in high tax states such as Minneapolis - 40 years ago the Twin City metro was smaller than Buffalo now it is twice as big, and it does it with colder weather and one of the highest tax structures in the country.

But not Buffalo, no because it's easier to just sit back and blame Albany or Benderson or whomever the villan du jour is. Buffalo truely is a Democratic city.

Senecas and State lose in Skretny decision.

BREAKING NEWS: Split Decision On Buffalo Casino

Tuesday, July 8, 2008 02:46 PM - WBEN Newsroom


Buffalo, NY (WBEN) - Federal Judge William Skretny has issued a decision that gives a partial victory to each side of the Buffalo Creek Casino matter. He says while the land in downtown Buffalo is indeed sovreign land, he vacated approval from the Federal Government allowing gaming on the land.

We are following the story, and will have much more throughout the day on WBEN and at WBEN.com.



So basically the Seneca's will have to either appeal the ruling or go back to the Federal Government for gambling approval.

Breaking News: Judge Rules on Casino Lawsuit

Story Updated: Jul 8, 2008 at 2:58 PM EDT
By Joe Maxfield and Julie Fine


Judge William Skretny has ruled on the Federal Lawsuit challenging the legality of a casino in Downtown Buffalo. The judge has ruled that the land is sovereing Indian land, however, he has also ruled that it can't be used for the purposes of gamlbing.

A group of plaintiffs, including Citizens for a Better Buffalo, filed a lawsuit, challenging the sovereignty of the land. The casino is being built in the Cobblestone District. It is a 333 million dollar project, and construction is already underway for a casino, a hotel, and restaurants. Tune in tonight for live team coverage of this story you saw first on 7 tonight on 7 News at 5.

Well without the Casino you can kiss Bass Pro and Canalside goodbye - so let's hope the Federal Government regrants gaming approval.

I heard Sketny's decision is over 120 pages long. Not sure what you can read into that- but likely just covering his behind since it will be appealed no matter who 'wins.'

The decision on the street sale is insignificant- Skretny's ruling is the real deal.

127 page decision. :)

Well without the Casino you can kiss Bass Pro and Canalside goodbye - so let's hope the Federal Government regrants gaming approval.


Untrue- Bass Pro has been in the planning stages since what seems like 1995. The two are not dependent on each other.

Judge rules against Seneca Nation on Buffalo casino
Skretny says casino gambling cannot legally take place on Michigan Ave. site
Michael Beebe NEWS STAFF REPORTER
Updated: 07/08/08 3:01 PM

It is unclear how U.S. District Judge William M. Skretny's ruling will affect construction at the Michigan Avenue site, but it is clear that the temporary casino no longer has the legal right to operate.

A federal judge today ruled against the Seneca Nation's Buffalo Creek Casino, saying that casino gambling cannot legally take place on the nine-acre site on Michigan Avenue.

U.S. District Judge William M. Skretny, in a 127-page decision, vacated the earlier decision by the commissioner of the National Indian Gaming Commission to allow gambling.

It was not immediately clear whether Skretny's ruling will halt construction on the $333 million permanent casino, but it is clear that the temporary casino no longer has the legal right to operate.

Skretny ruled that the parcel is indeed Indian country.

"However, the court finds that the (National Indian Gaming Commission's) July 2, 2007, determination that the Buffalo parcel is gaming-eligible ... is arbitrary, capricious and not in accordance with the law."

The Senecas have operated a small temporary Buffalo Creek Casino in a blue metal building on the nine-acre site since July 3, 2007. It was the third Seneca casino, following openings in Niagara Falls and on the Allegany territory in Salamanca.

Late last month, the Senecas issued an update to their 2005 study of the tribe's effect on the local economy, mostly through gambling. They cited 1,100 new jobs and said the Senecas are pumping more money into Western New York than the Buffalo Bills and Buffalo Sabres combined.

Despite the lack of amenities, more than 400,000 people have come to the temporary casino to gamble while work continues on construction of its larger $333 million permanent casino and hotel.

The temporary casino opened after Philip N. Hogan, chairman of the National Indian Gaming Commission gave the go-ahead, and Senecas moved slot machines into the building in the dead of night.

The question answered in today's ruling is whether the land on Michigan Avenue, bought by the Senecas in 2005, is legally considered sovereign Seneca territory. The lawsuit claimed the Senecas can only operate a casino on land considered sovereign.

The land was purchased with funds from the 1990 Seneca Nation Land Claims Settlement Act, which settled the question of longterm leases in the city of Salamanca.

The Senecas said the settlement act gave them the right to expand their territory. John J. LaFalce, who co-wrote the legislation while a congressman, said the act never was intended to legitimize gambling casinos off the reservation.

While the Senecas are not a party to the federal lawsuit -- Citizens for a Better Buffalo is pitted against the U.S. Justice Department -- they filed motions as a friend of the court. The Senecas argue that treaties, federal law, state law and past court rulings say the federal agency was correct in saying the casino could operate there.

"(We) will continue to aggressively challenge anyone who attempts to limit or misinterpret our tribal sovereignty for their own gain or agenda," Seneca President Maurice A. John Sr. said in November 2007.

Cornielius D. Murray, the Albany attorney representing Citizens for a Better Buffalo, has repeatedly warned the Senecas that the they are building the new casino at their own risk.

"While there is no dispute that the Senecas own the land," Murray said in response to John, "mere possession of title does not give them the right to violate the laws of the state unless they can prove that the land is no longer subject to the jurisdiction of the state of New York."

"Soverignity and title are not the same thing," Murray argued. "There are compelling legal arguments that Congress never intended to carve out a parcel of property in the heart of a major American city and designate it as "Indian land."

Erie County was originally part of the suit, saying the casino would be an economic drain on the local economy, but County Executive Chris Collins dropped the lawsuit after he took office.

Buffalo Mayor Byron W. Brown is also a supporter of the Buffalo Creek Casino and, like Mayor Anthony M. Masiello before him, argues that the casino will help revitalize Buffalo.

"The nation has proven itself as a very important part of our local economy," Brown said.

Citizens for a Better Buffalo is led by its president, Diane Bennett, a retired attorney, and includes public officials, religious leaders and community activists. The group is largely funded by the Margaret L. Wendt Foundation. The Baird Foundation and a private donors have also helped fund the lawsuit, which has cost more than $1 million.

The nation and its gambling arm have invested nearly $27 million to date on land acquisition, planning and construction of its Buffalo venue. More than $10 million of that went into the original construction, and then expansion, of the temporary slots-only casino that opened last July.

In documents filed with the federal Securities and Exchange Commission, the Senecas estimated another $10.8 million on site preparation and construction of the permanent casino through the end of March.

Other major expenditures include: $2.7 million for acquisition of the properties along Michigan Avenue that compose the nine-acre sovereign territory, plus another $631,000 to buy a one-block section of Fulton Street from the city. The street formerly bisected the casino site.

The gambling corporation has also acquired three other nearby properties, spending another $1.7 million.

The temporary casino, which opened with 109 slot machines a year ago, was expanded to accommodate 244 machines. In its first six months of operations, it generated more than $12 million in revenues.

In June 2006, the Senecas unveiled designs for a $125 million permanent casino, then upped the ante in October 2007 with blueprints for a $333 million casino complex. It's billed as the largest privately-funded construction project in Buffalo's history.

Plans call for a 22-story, 206 suite hotel tower, to complement a 90,000-square-foot casino, with 2,000 slot machines and some 45 table games. The complex would also house four restaurants, a spa and include a 2,500-vehicle parking deck.

The facility is expected to employ more than 1,000 and generate some $7 million a year in revenues to the host community. Buffalo and Erie County are squabbling over each's share.

Construction crews have been installing pilings and foundations since early February, and the first load of structural steel was due for delivery in the next two weeks.
---------------------------------------------------------
Why not put in Pachinko machines then??? Its like slots, you can win money, and its not gambling.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pachinko

The two are not dependent on each other.I Wish you were correct, but we shall see, we shall see.
There is a reason they have held off signing a final contract until after this decision. Also w/o the 7-8,000 people the Casino would draw into the area it will be much harder if not impossible for Benderson to land the restaurant tenants that they were targeting.

It's unlikely the Casino will end up being stopped, but if it is look for downtown Buffalo to look pretty much the same ten years from now as it does today, except of course it will have surface parking on the Aud and Donovan blocks!

Of course they are cheering this decision in Ft Erie! Their jobs feel a little safer today.

I Wish you were correct, but we shall see, we shall see.
There is a reason they have held off signing a final contract until after this decision. Also w/o the 7-8,000 people the Casino would draw into the area it will be much harder if not impossible for Benderson to land the restaurant tenants that they were targeting.

It's unlikely the Casino will end up being stopped, but if it is look for downtown Buffalo to look pretty much the same ten years from now as it does today, except of course it will have surface parking on the Aud and Donovan blocks!

Of course they are cheering this decision in Ft Erie! Their jobs feel a little safer today.

All those new restaurants in downtown NF are doing well thanks to the casino there. Restaurants in the casino of course. The five people that would walk from the Seneca Creek casino to Canalside each day are insignificant to the tenants Benderson is likely talking to.

There are plenty of things you can do with the 90,000 sqft of space.

All those new restaurants in downtown NF are doing well thanks to the casino there. Restaurants in the casino of course. The five people that would walk from the Seneca Creek casino to Canalside each day are insignificant to the tenants Benderson is likely talking to.

There were never any development plans in Niagara Falls - the land there is tied up by Cordish and Milstein. Both Bass Pro and Benderson have stated that their decisions to go forward were partly based upon the synergy with the Buffalo Creek Casino. It is what they have both parties have publically stated on several occasions. No such plans were ever proposed for Niagara Falls and no such comments were made there.

There are plenty of things you can do with the 90,000 sqft of space.

not in the ghetto there ain't

Why do so many WNY'er choose to take the easy way out and blame the State instead of taking responsibility?
And all you're essentially doing is claiming "mommy government" knows what's best and it's just the locals around you electing idiots. If that isn't the hallmark of being a democrat, I don't know what is.

I've said it a million times before - shit rolls downhill. Localities have no motivation or accountability to adopt a system different that those above them. Even if they do improve on their own, good for them, but you can't expect that to happen and any improvements that are realized will end up short of potential because of obstruction from the top.

For instance, Erie County could strip its budget bare, but it'd still be stuck with uncompetitive (nationally speaking) tax rates in order to cover the unfunded gaps in Medicaid alone. So how what have you really accomplished now that you have shit schools and unplowed streets? Just the same, an Erie County restructuring, even along with 20 other counties, isn't going to prompt someone in Albany to say "holy crap, we better clean up our act".

It applies across the board in all sorts of areas - for instance county and town DPW's typically adopt their states' standards and not vice versa.

This is completely without mentioning the problem-enabling legislation (all state level) such as Wicks Law, Taylor Law, and flat out constitutional obstructions which preclude several possible reforms.

There are probably a shitload of state problems that could be solved by fixing the Federal government, but even I'm not idealistic to think that could ever happen. Besides, the policy interrelations which dictate economic development are stronger between state and local rather than federal and state. Diminishing returns says just go after the state.

All of our problems are always someone else's fault, either Albany, or the Seneca's or Washington. Poor, poor Buffalo, always the victim. I know it's easier to blame Albany and then sit back and whine than it is to actually move forward, but the fact is a great number of Buffalo's problems are self-inflicted.
Not untrue. I just happen to think the best way to solve a problem is to nip it in the bud as opposed to chasing the symptoms. See above. Want real reason to improve something at a lower level, take away the "well they do it so it's apparently ok" factor.

You'll also note that I usually attempt to stay away from the "woe is Buffalo" angle. I don't think we're the ones that have been cheated the most. Generally I think the North Country gets that dubious distinction, probably followed by the Southern Tier. Then the Mohawk Valley and then probably Buffalo. It's all of Upstate that would stand to benefit, and it would even remove a serious drag from Downstate.

The first step to recovery is recognizing that people aren't flocking to live within our golden borders just because "we're New York". There is no mystique or whatever you want to call it, it dried up years ago. We've fallen the farthest from grace than any state in the union. Maybe we should just blame it on the appeal of California in the 50s-60s since that's when it seems to have started?

The State is not the entire problem; look at Saratoga County - population up over 20% so far this decade, look at Lake George same State as Niagara Falls, yet it is a booming tourist mecca.
Three words: Joe Bruno's pork.

Or so it would seem. It'll be interesting to see how well it sustains itself now...if he gave it enough of a boost to hit the critical point where it can sustain itself.

Lake George also isn't a post-industrial shithole, either. And considering you're comparing a scenic cottage village with a decent size city on a natural wonder isn't exactly fair.

Buffalo the promise of 2007 gives way to self inflicted reality of 2008;

Statler Project - dead lawsuit and unions
City Tower - dead killed by Statler failure
Gates Circle condo tower - Dead - stalled by lawsuit till cost became excessive
Seneca Tower - Dead, killed by lawsuit
Signature Bridge - Dead, killed by lawsuit delays
Court Street Tower - Dead - stalled by lawsuit till cost became excessive

Next to die: Canalside and Bass Pro killed by loss of Casino. Casino was a piece of the puzzle, without all of the pieces the puzzle does not work.

The only projects to go forward are the taxpayer funded Courthouse and taxpayer funded Avant.

Sad year for the former Queen City of the Lakes

And all you're essentially doing is claiming "mommy government" knows what's best and it's just the locals around you electing idiots. If that isn't the hallmark of being a democrat, I don't know what is.
I am not saying that at all, I am saying that you have to play the cards you are dealt. You cannot just keep crying that you were dealt a bad hand. You can't stop and wait for a re-deal. I pointed out that other areas with similarly bad hands are prosperous. California is still booming and their taxes and regulations are neaarly as bad as New York's

I don't recall ever hearing that Canalside was in any way contingent on the casino. As you said, "piece of the puzzle". Complementary items don't need each other to fulfill a purpose/be sucessful. You're implying all the pieces need to be available and in place at once for the thing to work. I'm sure that's how Baltimore did it, even though I don't recall seeing a casino there.

That sounds like a Buffalo politician going after the big soundbyte/headline rather than the proven time and again piece-by-piece incremental approach that had we been doing for the last 30 years instead of squandering all resources on "all at once" silver bullets that ended up failing (or at least didn't live up to potential) we'd be a heck of a lot better off right now. "Oh, that'll take 10 years to materialize." Well, it's been 30-50 years, it could've materialized 20-40 years ago instead of, "oh, 10 years from now."

Oh wait, you're right. Damn that casino. I don't want to see what all the hubbub about Bass Pro is now. Killed my curiousity instantaneously. I regret walking around the Slip too, seeing as it's all for naught now.

Is that popping sound I'm hearing the original Commercial Slip canal stones exploding? I heard they needed the casino too.

And if Canalside did require the casino, then why was Bass Pro talking well before the casino site was selected and looked to be destined to end up in Cheektowarsaw?

I don't recall ever hearing that Canalside was in any way contingent on the casino. One third of the Bass Pro stores built in the past 5 years have been located near a Casino. Including stores in Scottsdale, Reno, Las Vegas, Sellersberg Indiana and Council Bluffs Iowa. At a press conference last year Johnny Morris stated that the Seneca Casino was a factor in their decision to try again with a Buffalo store.

jerome / WNY making Sh*t up again

Buffalo the promise of 2007 gives way to self inflicted reality of 2008;

Statler Project - dead lawsuit and unions
City Tower - dead killed by Statler failure
Gates Circle condo tower - Dead - stalled by lawsuit till cost became excessive
Seneca Tower - Dead, killed by lawsuit
Signature Bridge - Dead, killed by lawsuit delays
Court Street Tower - Dead - stalled by lawsuit till cost became excessive

Next to die: Canalside and Bass Pro killed by loss of Casino. Casino was a piece of the puzzle, without all of the pieces the puzzle does not work.

The only projects to go forward are the taxpayer funded Courthouse and taxpayer funded Avant.

Sad year for the former Queen City of the Lakes


Crazy to see all of those projects go away. I really wish the Statler and City Tower had happened.

Next to die: Canalside and Bass Pro killed by loss of Casino. Casino was a piece of the puzzle, without all of the pieces the puzzle does not work.


Sorry but Bass Pro is a go. They are curently doing the asbestos abatement and demolition is scheduled for this Fall. In fact Bass Pro is so high on the location that they were trying to get it opened in 2009 instead of 2010.

Regarding the Casino it will end up being built. WNED's web site has the full ruling posted online, take a good look at it. The key is that the land was declared sovereign. The court ruled that the Seneca's do no meet the provisions for Class 3 gaming only. The mere fact that the land was declared sovereign territory means that they can at their will open class 1 or class 2 gaming. The requirements fo 1 or 2 gaming are only that the land be sovereign and the gaming allowed by NY State. The Seneca compact with NY State covers class 1,2 and 3 gaming. Class 1 gaming is basicaly bingo. Class 2 however can include a Casino. The Oneida Turning Stone Casino is a class 2 casino. The main difference between the two is that class 2 has vlt's instead of regular slot machines. Last time I looked Turning Stone was doing quite a business. Should the Seneca's wish to do so they could complete the project open it as a class 2 casino while fighting this rulng and/or reapplying with the federal athorities for class 3 permission.

Make no mistake about it the anti-casino forces loss more than they won, though a clear cut decision for the Seneca's would have been far better.

Tuesday, July 8, 2008 - 3:29 PM EDT
Senecas: Ruling won't close Buffalo Casino

Business First of Buffalo - by James Fink Business First

The Seneca Gaming Corp. said Tuesday's decision by U.S. District Court Judge William Skretny will not stop them from operating the Seneca Buffalo Creek Casino or moving ahead with construction of its $333 million gaming center in downtown Buffalo.

Skretny, in a 127-page decision, ruled that a 9-acre parcel acquired by the Seneca Gaming Corp., an arm of the Seneca Nation of Indians, in 2005 is "Indian country."

But, at the same time, Skretny said a July 2, 2007 decision by the National Indian Gaming Commission that allowed gaming to take place on the land is "arbitrary, capricious and not in accordance with the law."

Skretny made his decision in a federal case filed against National Indian Gaming Commission by several plaintiffs headed by the anti-gaming advocacy group, Citizens Against Casino Gambling in Erie County. The Seneca Nation of Indians and Seneca Gaming Corp. were not named in the suit, but were considered friends of the court.

An appeal, which is likely, will come from the U.S. government and not the Seneca Nation or Seneca Gaming.

"The temporary Seneca Buffalo Creek Casino will continue to operate as usual while the Seneca Nation of Indians confers with the United States government as to the effects of today's decision," said Barry Snyder Sr., Seneca Gaming chairman, in a release issued Tuesday afternoon.

However, one of the lawyers representing the anti-gaming contingent disputed Seneca Gaming's response.

"If they continue to gamble, they are doing so illegally," said Buffalo attorney Richard Lippes.

Lippes warned if gaming continues at the temporary Seneca Buffalo Creek Casino his group may seek a federal injunction to shut down the slot machine-only operation.

No injunctions are expected to be filed against the construction of the permanent casino.

"They can build the casino, they just can't operate it," Lippes said.

The casino is the largest private development in Buffalo's history. The facility includes 202 hotel suites and more than 90,000 square feet of gaming space. Construction began last year. The casino is expected to open in two years.

The temporary Seneca Buffalo Creek Casino, which opened on July 3, 2007 just hours after the National Indian Gaming Commission approved the operation attracted more than 400,000 people in its first year.

A job fair for the more than 1,000 openings at the permanent casino drew at least that many applicants.

"The citizens of Buffalo and their elected leaders have been eagerly awaiting the development of Seneca Buffalo Creek Casino as a signature project in downtown Buffalo," Snyder said. "That was clear when nearly 1,000 people came to a job preview event in 2006 and has been echoed every day since we opened the doors to the temporary casino."

Seneca Nation President Maurice John Sr. remains confident that the Indian tribe will prevail when the appeal is filed the Second Circuit Appeals Court. The land is sovereign Indian territory John said.

"As 'Indian Country' recognized by the United States, the nation has wide latitude over how it uses those lands now and long into the future."

Representatives from both sides agree that the length and complexity of Skretny's decision requires further legal review.

"The court's decision is lengthy and requires more closer analysis," John said. "We will be reviewing the decision carefully, as we want to be sure that the court was aware of and considered all of the applicable federal law."

"No question this is another battle in a long war," Lippes said. "We believe, and has always believed, that the law is very strong in our favor."

I actually find it comical in a sadistic sense that we've fallen so far that people think a casino is an economic cure-all. Even the Indians wouldn't be doing it if it weren't about the only way they could rebuild their shattered culture.

Most cities go after corporate HQs or large manufacturing plants. Meanwhile we (with some company, certainly) celebrate something with entirely unknown consequences as something huge.

Oh wait, we didn't have a say, did we. Another potential NYS screwjob! Ehh, blame Tony and Byron and the idiot moron nincompoops that elected them anyways.

Buffalo the promise of 2007 gives way to self inflicted reality of 2008;

Statler Project - dead lawsuit and unions
City Tower - dead killed by Statler failure
Gates Circle condo tower - Dead - stalled by lawsuit till cost became excessive
Seneca Tower - Dead, killed by lawsuit
Signature Bridge - Dead, killed by lawsuit delays
Court Street Tower - Dead - stalled by lawsuit till cost became excessive

Next to die: Canalside and Bass Pro killed by loss of Casino. Casino was a piece of the puzzle, without all of the pieces the puzzle does not work.

The only projects to go forward are the taxpayer funded Courthouse and taxpayer funded Avant.

Sad year for the former Queen City of the Lakes

You really jump to conclusions.

^^ He's just bitter because his Initech stock crashed when their main office burned.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/18/70384439_ba1fd5b9de.jpg

I think he keeps landing on "strike out".

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e138/dignonk/office_space.jpg

I
Most cities go after corporate HQs or large manufacturing plants. Meanwhile we celebrate something with entirely unknown consequences as something huge.

Why can't we have both? There is nothing in the Seneca compact that prohibits us from going after HQ's or manufacturing plants. In fact since the compact was signed we gained 2,500 jobs at Geico and a 500 employee plant was rcently announced for Niagara Falls.

A Casino is not a WNY economic cure all but it would definitely help to jump start our moribund downtown, it would definitely help create instant critical mass in the arena, inner harbor area.

Other cities strive to have Casino's and commerce side by side why shouldn't we? Pittsburgh and Philly are giving it a shot - we should too. The more options for employment and/or entertainment the better.

I never said we couldn't, it's just that we don't. Of course I don't think it's entirely our fault, but heaven forfend I should place any blame at the feet of Mother Government.

If there is an upside, although this plan has a bit of silver bullet-ishness to it, it is tempered with other complementary (the operative word in the whole debate) projects which make success little less dependent on it. So maybe it's a slow learning curve, but it's a learning curve nonetheless. I'll take "better late than never" over "development for the sake of development" 8 days a week.

Granted I don't think nor have I ever thought Bass Pro itself is a cure-all either. But seeing the subsidiary development as well as the newly opened harbor (even with little to actually do there), you can't help but get a good feeling about it.

I actually took the time to read jerry's failure list. Yeah, talk about outright fallacies. Even the ones that are rightly considered dead are not so for those reasons. And what, even without a lawsuit, Gates Circle was going to be under construction by now? Yeah, right. There's a little phase in the project called "design". It probably wouldn't break ground until mid-2009 at the earliest anyways, so if the cost of steel killed it, the cost of steel was going to kill it no matter what! And to think he blames unions too....hmmm...who gave them unions all their power? Oh yeah, Frank Sedita, Sam Hoyt, and Ed Rutkowski. Sorry, I forgot.

Bass Pro and Canalside are not tied to the casino. Bass Pro talk has been around since at least 2002, the casino was Buffalo-bound in 2005.

Bass Pro and Canalside are not tied to the casino. Bass Pro talk has been around since at least 2002, the casino was Buffalo-bound in 2005.The Casino compact with NYS spelling out a Buffalo Casino was signed in 2001 long before the Bass Pro talks got started. Bass pro is DOA with this Casino decision.

The Casino compact with NYS spelling out a Buffalo Casino was signed in 2001 long before the Bass Pro talks got started. Bass pro is DOA with this Casino decision.

There you go again Jerome. The casino was going to Cheektowaga up until 2005 and when forced into the city, the Senecas wanted the convention center- blocks from Main/Scott streets. Don't rewrite history. Bass Pro started talking to Masiello in 2001 about the Auditorium.

Please explain why you think BPro picked the foot of Main Street because of the casino then planned in Cheektowaga and why they're linked. Facts don't support your fiction.

Please explain why you think BPro picked the foot of Main Street because of the casino planned in Cheektowaga and why they're linked. Facts don't support your fiction.

I think they are linked because the head of Bass Pro Johnny Morris said that they were linked. He said so at a press conference earlier this year when Bass Pro recommitted to the waterfront site. I believe he knows more about Bass Pro's decision making process than you do. BTW when the original compact was signed it was with much fanfare that it was stated the casino would be in the City. Then discussions started with BP. BP signed on then the Seneca's went to Cheektowaga and the BP project stalled. Then it was decided that the Casino would be in the City and the BP project was resurrected. That is the real time line.

Bass Pro will now become another dead Buffalo project. I'd be willing to bet your life on it!

^^You keep thinking that.

I think they are linked because the head of Bass Pro Johnny Morris said that they were linked. He said so at a press conference earlier this year when Bass Pro recommitted to the waterfront site.

link?

link?

:lol:

Right.

I don't remember him saying that, but he probably mentioned that having the casino nearby was a bonus and 'could' create synergy. Seeing that casinos generate little traffic outside their doors, if he's counting on grabbing Seneca Casino patrons to support Bass Pro, he'd be foolish. Considering he's the head of wildly successful retailer, he's no dummy.

When the compact was signed- the casino was mentioned in the city, yes. On the outer harbor, at the convention center and in the Statler were three ideas. Neither is directly linked to the Aud area where BPro has always been looking. When the Seneca's signed an agreement with Uniland for Airbourne property- why didn't BPro bail then???

I'll eat crow if BPro goes away and specifically says they are cancelling Bflo plans ONLY due to the uncertainty of the casino decision. :cheers:

:lol:

Right.

I don't remember him saying that, but he probably mentioned that having the casino nearby was a bonus and 'could' create synergy. Seeing that casinos generate little traffic outside their doors, if he's counting on grabbing Seneca Casino patrons to support Bass Pro, he'd be foolish.

Then he must be foolish, because he desires to have his stores in close proximity to Casinos. In fact several of his stores are connected to Casinos including stores in Iowa, Indiana, Reno and Las Vegas. Being near casinos is a part of their business model. He said it was a factor in the waterfront store, his companies past store sitings prove it's a factor in their decision making process. Why you refute the company President is beyond me.

As stated earlier - he knows more about Bass Pro's decision making process then does some guy out in Sacremento.

When the Seneca's signed an agreement with Uniland for Airbourne property- why didn't BPro bail then???


They basically did. They refused to sign a binding letter of intent and there was zero movement on the project until the Casino plans for Buffalo Creek surfaced.

Hell, even if BP wanted to go ahead with a Buffalo store we all know there will be a lawsuit to stop it. Jim Ostrowski's group is already threatening one on the basis that it is a private busienss getting government dollars.

Then he must be foolish, because he desires to have his stores in close proximity to Casinos. In fact several of his stores are connected to Casinos including stores in Iowa, Indiana, Reno and Las Vegas. Being near casinos is a part of their business model. He said it was a factor in the waterfront store, his companies past store sitings prove it's a factor in their decision making process. Why you refute the company President is beyond me.

As stated earlier - he knows more about Bass Pro's decision making process then does some guy out in Sacremento.

:lol:

Umm- what Reno store? More BS/unresearched make believe.

Funny- there are three Indian casinos around Sacramento, including one of the most profitable casinos anywhere in the World - Thunder Valley Casino in my county 20 minutes from sacramento- yet BPro is heading to downtown Sacramento. Hmmmm.

...several of his stores are connected to Casinos including stores in Iowa, Indiana, Reno and Las Vegas...
Iowa and Indiana I might be willing to give you, but the other 50% of your argument - putting anything next to a casino in those other 2 doesn't exactly require an act of God.

And if so, where is the Bass Pro near Turning Stone? Did they open a store in Auburn figuring the patrons were going to drive all the way out from Verona? How come the closest Bass Pro to Foxwoods (the world's largest casino) or Mohegan Sun (both in Connecticut) is in Foxborough, MA? A good 90 minute drive assuming no traffic (in Southern New England - good luck!) Seems to me Mr. Morris ought to consider ditching Springfield for Norwich or New London. And why is the closest one to Atlantic City in Baltimore? Why haven't Larry Quinn and Byron Brown had to pry Mr. Morris away from Salamanca or Niagara Falls?

You're more full of s*it than an outhouse after a party with bad Mexican food.

:lol:

Umm- what Reno store? More BS/unresearched make believe.

.

:banana:Keep laughing a-wipe.

Bass Pro Shops® News Releases
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Bass Pro Shops Coming to Reno, Nevada.
December 21, 2005




Reno, Nev. - December , 2005 - Executives from Bass Pro Shops, America's premier outdoor retailer and Station Casinos, Inc. signed a letter of intent and announced plans today to open a Bass Pro Shops Outdoor World superstore in Reno, Nev. in conjunction with Station Casinos' proposed new resort hotel and casino located at Mt. Rose Highway and I-395.



Bass Pro Shops unique, award-winning, mega size outdoor stores are known for combining retail with entertainment, conservation and outdoor education. Its 33 retail stores across America attract over 78 million people annually.



"This location offers a unique opportunity for one of our destination retail stores," said Bass Pro Shops President Jim Hagale. "We plan to deliver the grandest Bass Pro Shops Outdoor World store to date to the Reno/Lake Tahoe region for the residents and many visiting outdoor enthusiasts."



"We are extremely excited about bringing Bass Pro Shops to Northern Nevada as part of our project" said Lorenzo Fertitta, President of Station Casinos. "Each Bass Pro Shops store is a unique and entertaining experience that is unmatched by any other retailer. Their store will attract outdoor enthusiasts not only from the Reno market but also from throughout Nevada and Northern California. Bass Pro Shops' desire to open an Outdoor World superstore in Reno is another sign of the strength of this market and will be another reason for people to come to Reno" added Fertitta.



Starting with just eight feet of retail space in a small store in Springfield, Missouri back in 1971, Bass Pro Shops began by offering a selection of the latest gear from the fledgling bass tournament fishing trail. Today, Bass Pro Shops is world renowned and has been named the #1 outdoor retailer in America by Sporting Goods Business Magazine.



Bass Pro Shops stores are much more than just a retail store. The sights and sounds of the outdoors are brought to life indoors through museum-quality wildlife dioramas, huge murals and chandeliers depicting outdoor scenes, massive log and rock work, waterfalls, and aquariums stocked with native fish species. The attention to the finest detail from wildlife tracks in the concrete, to wildlife carvings on logs and rafters is what helps add to the uniqueness of a Bass Pro Shops store and has earned numerous awards for its innovative store designs



A local theme can be felt throughout all Bass Pro Shops stores with use of artifacts and memorabilia from the area as well as historic photos of local outdoor enthusiast that pay tribute to the great outdoor heritage of the region. Laser arcades, climbing walls, archery ranges, fine gun rooms, NASCAR shops and more add to the family entertainment.



The store will also feature an expansive boat showroom and service center featuring a complete selection of Tracker, Nitro, Tahoe, Sun Tracker, Grizzly, Kenner, Mako and SeaCraft boats built by Tracker Marine Group.



Known as a very conservation-minded company, Bass Pro Shops provides major support to national and local organizations for their conservation projects and has received more awards for their conservation efforts than any other outdoor retailer in America.



Outdoor education is also a key component to Bass Pro Shops strong commitment to our natural resources and the sportsmen and sportswomen who enjoy them. Weekly free outdoor skills workshops are offered at all stores for kids, women, novice adults and families. It is also not unusual to see a wide variety of groups at Bass Pro Shops stores to learn about the great outdoors in the comfort of the great indoors of Bass Pro Shops.



More than just a fishing and hunting store, Bass Pro Shops will also offer equipment and clothing for hiking, backpacking, wildlife viewing, camping, outdoor cooking and more. A gift and nature center will also serve up a wide variety of outdoor-related items from lamps and dishes to bird feeders and furniture.



Known for their great customer service, Bass Pro Shops is expected to hire approximately 300 passionate outdoor enthusiasts from the area.




About Bass Pro Shops

Bass Pro Shops, also a major catalog and Internet retailer, is headquartered in Springfield, Missouri. They currently have 31 retail locations in 19 states and Canada with 2 more locations scheduled to open by the end of this year. For more information regarding Bass Pro Shops store locations, products or special events, please visit www.basspro.com.



About Station Casinos, Inc.

Station Casinos, Inc. was founded in 1976 by Frank Fertitta, Jr. when he opened what's known today as Palace Station Hotel & Casino. In the early 1990's, Fertitta's sons Frank Fertitta III and Lorenzo Fertitta assumed management of the Company and took it public in 1993 (NYSE:STN). Since that time, the Company has grown from one property to 14 and is the sixth largest publicly-traded gaming corporation. Properties in Southern Nevada include Green Valley Ranch, Palace Station, Texas Station, Boulder Station, Santa Fe Station, Sunset Station, Fiesta Rancho, Fiesta Henderson, Magic Star, Wild Wild West, Gold Rush, the Green's Supper Club, Wildfire and Barley's. The Company also developed and manages Thunder Valley Casino on behalf of the United Auburn Indian Community just outside Sacramento, CA. To learn more about the Company, visit www.stationcasinos.com.



Since May, Station Casinos has announced its intention to develop two regional entertainment destinations in Reno; one off Mt. Rose Highway and I-395 next to The Summit Sierra lifestyle shopping center and one across the street from the Reno Sparks Convention Center. The two projects usher in a significant commitment by Station to build world-class entertainment destinations in Northern Nevada.


http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CFPage?storeId=10151&catalogId=10001&langId=-1&appID=34&template=news_display.cfm&newsID=145

Iowa and Indiana I might be willing to give you, but the other 50% of your argument - putting anything next to a casino in those other 2 doesn't exactly require an act of God.

And if so, where is the Bass Pro near Turning Stone? Did they open a store in Auburn figuring the patrons were going to drive all the way out from Verona? How come the closest Bass Pro to Foxwoods (the world's largest casino) or Mohegan Sun (both in Connecticut) is in Foxborough, MA? A good 90 minute drive assuming no traffic (in Southern New England - good luck!) And why is the closest one to Atlantic City in Baltimore?


I Never Ever said that ALL of their stores were near a Casino, nor did I say that they would build a store near every Casino. Your rebuttle is mind numbing in it's stupidity. I said about a third of their recent stores were in proximity to Casinos and I pointed out that in his comments on a Buffalo TV station Johnny Morris said the Casino was a factor in their decision to revive the plans for a Buffalo store.

Please read it slowly so that you can comprehend the words.

Please read it slowly so that you can comprehend the words.
Don't worry, a text can only be read as quickly as the mind that created it. You know, "only as strong as the weakest link".

You might recollect you said:...several of his stores are connected to Casinos including... Being near casinos is a part of their business model...his companies past store sitings prove it's a factor in their decision making process.

I see nothing in that post about ...about a third of their recent stores were in proximity to Casinos...

Say one thing, then twist it to mean something else. Wow, I always knew you had a vested interest in the state's putrid status quo - you must be a politician! Either that or you work for the census bureau.

...Johnny Morris said the Casino was a factor in their decision to revive the plans for a Buffalo store.

Ooh, upon reading it even more slowly I glean
...J..o..h..n..n..y......M..o..r..r..i..s......s..a..i..d......t..h..e......C..a..s..i..n..o
......w..a..s......a......f..a..c..t..o..r......i..n......t..h..e..i..r......d..e..c..i..s..i..o..n...
ahhh ha ha ha! A factor. Webster's defines a factor as "2 a (1): one that actively contributes to the production of a result : ingredient <price wasn't a factor in the decision>" Therefore the central theme being that a factor is not the whole deal in and of itself. Otherwise you'd think, being a reasonably intelligent man, he would have chosen some different verbage.

Hope your words go well with the aforementioned crow. Eat it slowly so you can properly digest it, I dare say the biological decomposition in the outhouse takes a fair amount of time to finish.

If Bass Pro falls through, it's going to fail because of the unelected, state-appointed doofuses on the Development Corporation which has no personal vested interest itself in the site (aka no revenue to realize nor shareholders to keep happy) screwing it up or delaying it further, much like it already has been. Or maybe it's just easier to blame Jimmy Griffin, lousy local elected official.

Don't worry, a text can only be read as quickly as the mind that created it. You know, "only as strong as the weakest link".

You might recollect you said:

I see nothing in that post about

Say one thing, then twist it to mean something else. Wow, I always knew you had a vested interest in the state's putrid status quo - you must be a politician! Either that or you work for the census bureau.




When you are talking about a company that only opened about a dozen stores in the past few years, several or even four, is about a third of them. There in nothing inconsistent in my statement. We are talking Bass Pro with a total of 30 or so stores not a Wal-Mart with thousands. Several equates to roughly a third of their stores.

Yes it was a factor, in the case of the Buffalo store their actions show that it was indeed the deciding factor. Remove it and the store is gone. You watch by October it will be a dead deal unless their is good reason to believe the Casino will go forward.

You are grasping at straws to defend an idea that is diametrically opposed to the words of the store's President. He said what he said, the company's recent actions about it's locations support what the company President said. The Buffalo project was considered dead until the Casino plans were shifted downtown, yet you wish to argue the point, WHY?

Why do you want to continue to make yourself look foolish? Why should I or anyone else accept your views on Bass Pro over what we were publically told by the head of the company? That's just kooky, and what the heck does this have to do with the politicians? The Casino and Canalside was a cool plan killed by 12 a$$holes with a lawyer. You and those that support the lawsuit(s) are the ones that want the status quo, I always wanted the Casino and Canalside. :nuts:

:banana:Keep laughing a-wipe.

Bass Pro Shops® News Releases
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE


Last laugh- look at the map of planned stores!!! :lol::lol::lol::lol:


http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/176/bprokh3.png

:banana:

Still waiting for the link where Morris says he is putting the store at the Aud site because of the casino a half mile away.....

1. Has Bass Pro actually released anything concerning their plans for Buffalo in light of the recent court decision?

2. On the topic of Bass Pro stores being near casinos is indicative of a common cause for both the casino and Bass Pro being located close together?

So they opened 4 of 12 stores next to a casino. That means they've opened 8 not near a casino. Not counting however many of the previous total of stores not near casinos. 33% does not an absolute factor make. Major factor? Maybe, but not speaking to Johnny-boy directly, we can only speculate at the possible motives and elements of chance involved. Given the explosion of Indian casino gambling nationwide in the past decade or so, it's getting harder and harder not to site anything outside of an hour's drive from one!

I don't recall ever hearing the Bass Pro project considered "dead". "Stalled", yes, many times, mostly because of the use of and then the opposition to the non-Aud siting as my fading memory seems to recall. "Stalled" is a long way from "dead". Lots of things are stalled, in fact I bet of all the projects occuring across the US, more are probably stalled than any other status. Nature of the business.

So I have no reason to believe anybody but yourself is the one grasping at straws; you have a singular focus and kung-fu grip on what I can only assume is the only one you can reach. It's fine if you don't want Bass Pro in town, I'll admit I wasn't too keen on them at the beginning and I still don't want them to be the only thing built there as it first seemed. But now if you don't mind, I'd love to continue arguing but my lunch break is over and I have more important things to do than argue about a fishing store president's intentions. Maybe you can arrange some kind of roundtable forum with him so we can all pick his mind; I'll be home around 5 and I'd be more than happy to engage in a discussion.

And no, I don't know what it has to do with politicians. My mention of state politicians was only because your response fit so well with their mindset, that it would be irresponsible not to mention it. Maybe you could explain, you've espoused your belief many times previous that Buffalo's problems are entirely due to local politicians. I mentioned Jimmy Griffin just as a means of reaching out and seeing it from the other side (you know, trying to think WWJRT (What Would Jerry Rome Think)).

Tootle-loo, see you and Mr. Morris sometime after 5!

It's fine if you don't want Bass Pro in town, I'll admit I wasn't too keen on them at the beginning and I still don't want them to be the only thing built there as it first seemed.

I absolutely want Bass Pro in Town that is why I am upset that this gang of 12 was able to put a knife into the project and cause the collateral damage of killing Bass Pro with no upside to their win?

They sued to stop the Casino simply because they are bigotted against Native Americans. There can be no other reason for their suit. If they were anti-gambling they would also rail against the Racino in Hamburg. Stoppng the Buffalo Casino will not cause one fewer problem gambler to exist since the area is surrounded by gambling opportunities. it was a suit to punish the Seneca's pure and simple. To suggest otherwise is to be disingenous at best.

http://allthingsbuffalo.wnymedia.net/blogs/2008/07/09/no-casinopossibly/

How would the potential loss of this hotel impact the other plans for hotels downtown? Perhaps this might benefit Issa if the Statler moves forward?

I envisioned this casino as the foundation for a complex that eventually included a new convention center.

:lol::lol::lol::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts::|ISSA? :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::nuts::nuts::lol::lol::lol::nuts::nuts::nuts::nuts:

I absolutely want Bass Pro in Town that is why I am upset that this gang of 12 was able to put a knife into the project and cause the collateral damage of killing Bass Pro with no upside to their win?

They sued to stop the Casino simply because they are bigotted against Native Americans. There can be no other reason for their suit. If they were anti-gambling they would also rail against the Racino in Hamburg. Stoppng the Buffalo Casino will not cause one fewer problem gambler to exist since the area is surrounded by gambling opportunities. it was a suit to punish the Seneca's pure and simple. To suggest otherwise is to be disingenous at best.

I hear that the Galleria Mall will also be closing down because of this. George H told me so.

I don't remember any statement from Bass Pro saying they chose downtown because of a proposed casino that wasn't even planned for downtown at the time. However, I do remember the BP president recently making a statment that he thought Bass Pro going into the Aud would fit nicely into the greater plans for the area, including the Canalside and Casino areas. Sorry I don't have a link, but I remember it was about the time the latest round of BP/Aud renderings came out when it was supposedly "officially" announced that BP was coming to the Aud.

This priceless photo was taken in 2004 before a downtown casino was even a twinkle in Tony Maseillo's eye. The casino didn't switch from Cheektowaga to Downtown until about summer/fall of 2005. I know this because I started working on the Casino traffic study when it was planned for Cheektowaga, and then about that time in 2005 I started working on the alternative downtown scenario.

http://www.icsc.org/srch/sct/sct1205/12BassProgetty.jpg

I don't remember any statement from Bass Pro saying they chose downtown because of a proposed casino that wasn't even planned for downtown at the time. However, I do remember the BP president recently making a statment that he thought Bass Pro going into the Aud would fit nicely into the greater plans for the area, including the Canalside and Casino areas. Sorry I don't have a link, but I remember it was about the time the latest round of BP/Aud renderings came out when it was supposedly "officially" announced that BP was coming to the Aud.

This priceless photo was taken in 2004 before a downtown casino was even a twinkle in Tony Maseillo's eye. The casino didn't switch from Cheektowaga to Downtown until about summer/fall of 2005. I know this because I started working on the Casino traffic study when it was planned for Cheektowaga, and then about that time in 2005 I started working on the alternative downtown scenario.

http://www.icsc.org/srch/sct/sct1205/12BassProgetty.jpg

DAMN YOU! Don't present Jerome facts and a timeline that blows his co-location theory out of the water.

I know for a fact that the Snews published a few stories where the BPro guy and Benderson state emphatically that the Casino has no impact on their planning or time table. They stated that it would be welcome as a neighbor but is not part of the business plan. BPro states on a few occasions that they like Buffalo because of the unique water edge location in the center of a bi-national region of 1.6 million people near 20 minutes from a world renowned tourist destination.

Call me ignorant, but I think the real reason people filed a lawsuit is becasue they felt the economic impact was not valuable to Buffalo relative to the cost from it's residents.

Let's say the casino earns 100 million dollars in slot revenue.
NYS Share @ 25% = 25 million
Local Share @ 25% of NYS Share = $6.25 million

So to break even, locals could not make up more than 6.25% of casino patrons?

Even if you include the Seneca's proposed $38 million dollar payroll, you still have to cap locals at 44.25% of the patrons if you want outside money to enter into the equation.

Here is why I have a problem with this:

According to 2007 SEC filings by the Seneca Gaming Corporation(http://www.senecagamingcorporation.com/pdf/sec_071231.pdf) about 20% of the "Links Card Players" were from the Buffalo-Niagara region for the Seneca Niagara Casino. In addition, it noted that 35% of all players at the casino since opening came from NYS. And this is from an 8,000,000 tourist area known around the world!

And according to an artvoice article I read some time ago(http://artvoice.com/issues/v5n14/real_villains), based on a 2005 10-K SEC filing by the Seneca Gaming Corporation:

The Seneca Niagara Casino will be the “flagship resort property catering to mid to high value gaming patrons,” while Seneca Allegany Casino targets and “Seneca Buffalo Creek Casino will target mid-level gaming patrons with frequent visits.” SGC intends to increase marketing of the Niagara Falls casino to Ohio, Pennsylvania and Toronto residents.

There is no mention of marketing the Buffalo casino to anyone but local and nearby residents. The SGC and its subsidiaries attribute its success thus far to “an underserved local market with limited gaming and entertainment options; a favorable demographic mix; limited competition; and easy access by major interstate highways.” This further substantiates the Nation’s intent to exhaust the “underserved” Buffalo and nearby resident markets.

The Buffalo Creek casino is not being built as a destination casino; it is not being built for distant visitors. It is being built to attract local gamblers.

Conclusion:
The casino will only be an economic benefit if it can draw outside dollars. According to Seneca SEC filings it's not going to be designed to do so, and will actually target the locals to free up the Seneca Niagara for the high rollers and out of towners. It makes sense to me, especially given that Niagara Falls is a lot more of a tourist attraction than the City of Buffalo from an outsiders perspective.

I don't see this casino being economically benefitial, and I'm sure that's the same issue the people who filed the lawsuit have. I'd be much more inclided to accept a casino in Buffalo if it was government run, or an all local take at, say 50-50. I'm not Anti-Gambling. Be as stupid as you want to be I guess...but let's make sure economic development is actually a long term winner for the local's, and not a way for the state to help itself balance it's books.

PS: Bass Pro doesn't need a casino to be successful. They know this, and now that the inner harbor is shaping up and the Aud is 'out of the picture', they see the potential on the Aud site as they orignially envisioned it. The slowdown was due to the fact that they were trying to work with the Aud, then trying to find a good place to put it rather than by the Aud, and now they are back to where they wanted to be in the first place. They are the Anchor of a waterfront development that is unique, and they want IN.

You left out the Canadian casinos as part of your calculation. You need to factor in the fact that locals will go to Canada and gamble their money away so there is a benefit to keeping that money on the NY side.

The fact is the gambling is going to happen weather it is on the NY or Canadian side.

Good point.

Is there anywhere to get stats on that? Pre/Post US casino?

They sued to stop the Casino simply because they are bigotted against Native Americans. There can be no other reason for their suit.
The fact that the contract violated federal gambling laws might have had something to do with it too...

:)

http://www.nysdot.gov/2008draftrailplan

(a couple highlights...)

2020 Vision for Rail - An intercity passenger rail system that:

• Transports double the intercity passenger rail ridership as it does today on each of New York’s three major rail corridors – New York City to Albany, Albany to Buffalo, and Albany to Montreal, as new passenger equipment becomes available thereby reducing highway congestion, energy use, and air emissions;

• Provides four-hour rail travel between Albany and Buffalo, also
connecting Syracuse, Utica, and Rochester, making rail travel more
time-competitive with driving;

• Evaluates and develops new or additional passenger services where viable that might include commuter services connecting Saratoga with Albany, and Niagara Falls with Buffalo, and intercity services connecting Binghamton with New York City.

Call me ignorant, but I think the real reason people filed a lawsuit is becasue they felt the economic impact was not valuable to Buffalo relative to the cost from it's residents.

Let's say the casino earns 100 million dollars in slot revenue.
NYS Share @ 25% = 25 million
Local Share @ 25% of NYS Share = $6.25 million

So to break even, locals could not make up more than 6.25% of casino patrons?

Even if you include the Seneca's proposed $38 million dollar payroll, you still have to cap locals at 44.25% of the patrons if you want outside money to enter into the equation.

Here is why I have a problem with this:

According to 2007 SEC filings by the Seneca Gaming Corporation(http://www.senecagamingcorporation.com/pdf/sec_071231.pdf) about 20% of the "Links Card Players" were from the Buffalo-Niagara region for the Seneca Niagara Casino. In addition, it noted that 35% of all players at the casino since opening came from NYS. And this is from an 8,000,000 tourist area known around the world!

And according to an artvoice article I read some time ago(http://artvoice.com/issues/v5n14/real_villains), based on a 2005 10-K SEC filing by the Seneca Gaming Corporation:



Conclusion:
The casino will only be an economic benefit if it can draw outside dollars. According to Seneca SEC filings it's not going to be designed to do so, and will actually target the locals to free up the Seneca Niagara for the high rollers and out of towners. It makes sense to me, especially given that Niagara Falls is a lot more of a tourist attraction than the City of Buffalo from an outsiders perspective.

I don't see this casino being economically benefitial, and I'm sure that's the same issue the people who filed the lawsuit have. I'd be much more inclided to accept a casino in Buffalo if it was government run, or an all local take at, say 50-50. I'm not Anti-Gambling. Be as stupid as you want to be I guess...but let's make sure economic development is actually a long term winner for the local's, and not a way for the state to help itself balance it's books.

PS: Bass Pro doesn't need a casino to be successful. They know this, and now that the inner harbor is shaping up and the Aud is 'out of the picture', they see the potential on the Aud site as they orignially envisioned it. The slowdown was due to the fact that they were trying to work with the Aud, then trying to find a good place to put it rather than by the Aud, and now they are back to where they wanted to be in the first place. They are the Anchor of a waterfront development that is unique, and they want IN.


You also can not discount the fact that the Senecas are a local corporation which means their profits stay local. It is not like Harrahs coming in and taking the profits back to Vegas.

This priceless photo was taken in 2004 before a downtown casino was even a twinkle in Tony Maseillo's eye. The casino didn't switch from Cheektowaga to Downtown until about summer/fall of 2005. The Casino was assumed to be downtown from the inception of the contract until the Seneca's had difficulty securing a site. From 2002 until today the site was going to be downtown except for the 9 month period where the Seneca's tried to switch to Cheektowaga because the City and County were trying to railroad them into the Statler to pay off a political croney. It was during the Cheektowaga period that the Bass Pro momentum totally stopped. It was only revived once the Casino site wss switched to the Cobblestone area.

Oh come on Ishamael, Steel, etc. Hard and fast mathematical "facts" have no place within this thread. As Stephen Colbert says, facts have no heart; no guts. We all know fuzzy math is where the money is.

So I got caught up doing housework last night and never returned here (give you some kind of indication of how important I think this issue is). So what happened during the roundtable discussion with Johnny Morris?

Call me ignorant, but I think the real reason people filed a lawsuit is becasue they felt the economic impact was not valuable to Buffalo relative to the cost from it's residents.

.
Then you are ignorant.:)

Joel Rose was on the hot seat on ch 2 last night. He said the suit was because he thought gambling was not a proper activity for Buffalo. He made no economic argument and said he did not care if the Casino was economically good or bad. His goal is apparently to hurt the Seneca's because of his bigotry. If not for his bigotry he would also be fighting and speaking out against the Racino's in Hamburg and Batavia.

I know for a fact that the Snews published a few stories where the BPro guy and Benderson state emphatically that the Casino has no impact on their planning or time table.

please provide the link - oh that's right you can't because you pulled that out of your arse!

Census estimates show Buffalo's population continues to decline
Niagara Frontier has small losses
By Maki Becker and Jay Rey NEWS STAFF REPORTERS
Updated: 07/10/08 8:18 AM


It’s probably no surprise to anyone, but Buffalo and just about every other city in upstate New York shrank ever so slightly last year, according to the latest estimates from the U. S. Census Bureau.

The losses reflect a continual decline in population that has plagued much of the state outside New York City for the last half century.

The good news for Erie and Niagara counties from the estimates released today is that the losses were almost minimal — none had a population drop of more than one percentage point.

The City of Good Neighbors lost 2,552 of those good neighbors between July 1, 2006, and July 1, 2007 — a 0.93 percent decline.

Niagara Falls also posted a loss during that period, with 369 leaving the city, reducing the population by 0.71 percent.

A few suburban towns posted gains, albeit tiny ones. Wheatfield boasted the biggest, drawing 605 people — a 3.78 percentage increase. In addition, Orchard Park added 445 people and Clarence, 57.

Overall, Erie County said goodbye to 5,001 residents while Niagara County lost 165.
While upstate lost residents overall, the state added 15,741 people, bringing the total to 19.3 million.

New York City, by far the largest city in the nation at 8.27 million, added 23,960 people. The Big Apple logged the sixth largest population gain in the country.

So where are all the upstaters going?

The new census estimates show that Charlotte, N. C., a popular destination for snow-weary, job-seeking ex-Western New Yorkers, is now the 19th most populous city in the country.

In addition, California and Texas, also popular with Buffalo expatriates, each had five cities on the list of the nation’s 25 fastest-growing cities.

Mayor Byron W. Brown said in a statement Wednesday that the figures “indicate that we’re still challenged by the decades-long impact of a shifting national economy and other related factors that have led to population loss.”

He added that he believes that in the last couple of years, the city’s economy has stabilized “and we will continue to build upon the city’s assets that will provide incentives for additional investment and growth in Buffalo.”

Marti Gorman, organizer of Buffalo Homecoming — an annual event that welcomes ex- Buffalonians back to the city — said she believes Buffalo can someday add to its ranks again.

“The world is changing in ways that favor Buffalo,” she said.

She pointed to Buffalo’s short commutes — as an incentive to people feeling the price crunch at gasoline stations — along with the city’s proximity to Canada, as benefits that could draw people.

In addition, she has learned from her homecoming events that former Buffalo residents in their 20s and 30s who left Buffalo but are now starting families, along with empty-nesters who left Western New York, are eager to return.

They want to be with their loved ones and enjoy the benefits of Buffalo’s low-cost living, Gorman said.

“I believe Buffalo is on the rise,” she said. “Buffalo will grow to greatness.”

News wire services contributed to this report.

What about Lancaster? I would've expected them to be growing, if not faster than Clarence (which evidently isn't too hard to do).

Either way, tell me what the numbers are in 2010, these estimates are pretty useless. For all we know, Buffalo might just as easily have lost 50,000.

Also considering the recent (2007 would probably be too early yet) fallout on Wall Street and the financial markets and that I've heard from several sources (some of whom are friends who've told me they've lost jobs) that NYC's job market is understandably pretty lousy. The 2008 numbers may tell a very different tale in that city. Wouldn't be surprised to see the whole state bringing in losses, led by NYC (in gross, maybe not %) due to sheer magnitude.

please provide the link - oh that's right you can't because you pulled that out of your arse!

Go to the Buffalo new web site. I am sure they have some type of archive. What is your proof Jerome

So what you are saying is that you have no link because you made it up.

What about Lancaster? I would've expected them to be growing, if not faster than Clarence (which evidently isn't too hard to do).

Either way, tell me what the numbers are in 2010, these estimates are pretty useless. For all we know, Buffalo might just as easily have lost 50,000.

Also considering the recent (2007 would probably be too early yet) fallout on Wall Street and the financial markets and that I've heard from several sources (some of whom are friends who've told me they've lost jobs) that NYC's job market is understandably pretty lousy. The 2008 numbers may tell a very different tale in that city. Wouldn't be surprised to see the whole state bringing in losses, led by NYC (in gross, maybe not %) due to sheer magnitude.

Remember that in 2000 the census estimate was that Lancaster lost people from 1990-2000 but the actual census 2000 count showed a healthy population gain. These estimates are notorious for under estimating WNY (and other areas) population.

According to the State NYC had a net gain in jobs of over 30,000 from May 2007 to May 2008.

Jerome's new screen name is not at all obvious..."jerry rome" lol

nice try...

Jerome's new screen name is not at all obvious..."jerry rome" lol

nice try...

I have no idea of what you are speaking. :angel:

Anyone know what the status of the Amherst Town Center plan is? Was it ever approved?

There's a crane placing structural steel right outside my window. :D

More Steelwinds

LACKAWANNA
Plan to add more wind turbines OK’d (http://www.buffalonews.com/cityregion/southernsuburbs/story/389744.html)
By Harold McNeil NEWS STAFF REPORTER
Updated: 07/11/08 6:47 AM

The Lackawanna Planning Board Thursday approved site plans for the second phase of the Steel Winds turbine project along Route 5.

The approval paves the way for 13 additional turbines to be erected on the property, on which 11 of the turbines would be located further inland, roughly midway between the Lake Erie shoreline and Route 5 on the old Bethlehem Steel site.

The developer, Clipper Windpower, first broke ground in 2005 on the $40 million wind-energy project, erecting eight turbines along the lake shore after agreeing to pay the city $100,000 annually over the next 15 years.

The Planning Board’s approval on Thursday actually covers 11 additional turbines. The board had previously, in 2005, approved two turbines north of the existing eight that were never constructed.

“So when we first came in with concept of Steel Winds, we had applied for site plan approval of 10 turbines,” Paul F. Curran, managing director of BQ Energy, explained after the meeting.

“We only built eight, though the approval [for 10 turbines] remained valid,” Curran added.

In all, 26 windmills are planned for the site. In addition to the existing eight and the 13 others that will be erected in Lackawanna, BQ Energy has already received approval from Hamburg officials to build another five turbines along the lake shore in Hamburg.

Even though, by state law, renewable energy projects like the Steel Winds farm are tax-exempt, the Lackawanna City Council last October unanimously adopted a law that would allow the city to collect property taxes on the second phase of the Steel Winds turbine project.

Instead, city officials worked out an agreement with the company in which it will pay the city $10,000 per megawatt for the power capacity generated by the turbines.

Each of the existing eight turbines in Lackawanna generates 2.5 megawatts of power, Curran said. If the additional 13 turbines each generates the same amount of power, that would be 32.5 megawatts and Lackawanna would receive $325,000 annually in taxes.

However, Curran said it has not yet been decided whether or not BQ Energy will use the same kind of turbines in the second phase of the Steel Winds project.

“We have to get all of our [other] approvals from the city and then we can go about the business of financing and ordering equipment,” said Curran. “The ones we have out there now are as big as they come. Our survey of the market is that they would either be [2.5 megawatts each] or a little bit less.”

He added that a firm date for when construction is to begin has not yet been set.

“We really have to get the equipment ordered now. Wind turbines are in popular demand. So it can take as much as two years to get the equipment on site. It might be 2010 that we get it. We’re still hopeful that we can get the equipment in by 2009 but likely it’s 2010,” Curran said.

hmcneil@buffnews.com

There's a crane placing structural steel right outside my window. :D

For the casino?

Oh no. Bryant & Stratton in Orchard Park is evidently expanding. Hence the grin.

BTW, found these "lesser" developments in Business First:

2 development projects await approval (http://buffalo.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2008/07/07/daily47.html?jst=b_ln_hl)
Business First of Buffalo - by James Fink Business First

The planned conversion of a vacant Buffalo bowling alley into a $36 million housing project and could begin soon if public financing is lined up.

Developer John Giardino of Centerstone Development LLC said he is working with state, local and federal offices to obtain necessary approvals to move tenants of the Lyndon B. Johnson Apartments to a new, low-rise housing complex on Amherst Street. The site is the abandoned Amherst Bowling Alley.

The apartments are owned by the Buffalo Municipal Housing Authority. The property, located at the corner of Main Street and Humboldt Parkway, likely will be sold to neighboring Medaille College for $3.5 million, which is the appraised value.

The federal Housing and Urban Development office must sign off on the project, as it helped fund construction in 1973 of the 10-story, 206-unit apartment tower. HUD's approval is considered crucial to the multipronged development effort.

"Right now we are tackling all the regulatory requirements, one at a time," Giardino said.

City leaders have praised the project for bringing an abandoned site on Amherst Street back to life while securing new, modern living quarters for the 170 residents of the LBJ Apartments and giving landlocked Medaille College some much-needed room to expand.

According to Masten District Councilman Demone Smith, Giardino's plan to bring new life to the former bowling alley property is being applauded in the neighborhood.

"A lot of neighbors are excited that the property is going to be turned into something," Smith said.

The project will be partly financed with pending proceeds from the proposed Medaille College deal, as well as federal tax-credits. Just to renovate the LBJ Towers to current HUD standards could cost between 4.7 million and $11 million.

"Our project is different," Giardino said. "We are not talking about modernizing the LBJ Apartments in their present location, but actually rebuilding them in a better location."

Tentative plans call for the heavily vandalized bowling alley to be demolished and replaced by a five-story, 200,000-square-foot apartment complex. It would house current residents of the LBJ Apartments plus others on the BMHA's waiting list.

The tenants would be senior citizens or low- to moderate- income individuals and families.

The Amherst Street site is less than two miles from the LBJ Apartments.

Giardino said he is ready to begin demolishing the bowling alley and could make it development-ready by the end of summer. Nothing will happen, however, until all the necessary approvals are in place.

"This is clearly a project being driven by the needs of the tenants," Giardino said.

The LBJ Apartment project is one of several in the pipeline for Cornerstone Development.

Giardino also is working on an $80 million project that will see the former Kensington Heights apartments demolished and replaced by the so-called Heritage Heights complex. It will feature 180 independent-living apartments for senior citizens, as well as 158 assisted-living units and a 325-bed nursing facility.

New housing project coming to life on Buffalo's East Side (http://buffalo.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2007/07/16/newscolumn1.html?page=2)
Business First of Buffalo - by Jim Fink

Driving around the Jefferson Avenue-William Street area reveals a part of the city that needs some urban development tender loving care.

That help is coming soon.

The Buffalo Municipal Housing Authority has picked the development team of Savarino Cos. and Norstar Development USA LP for a sweeping initiative that will see empty city blocks get new homes. Foit-Albert Associates has been retained to design the homes.

"This is about bringing a new vitality to a neighborhood that desperately wants it," said David Pawlik, Savarino vice president.

Pawlik knows a thing or two about urban development, especially in blighted neighborhoods. That was his specialty in the Masiello administration before switching over to the private sector.

Reconstruction of the Buffalo neighborhood took a giant step forward July 3 when the Buffalo Planning Board signed off on the first phase of the A.D. Price redevelopment project.

The first phase calls for 55 homes - a mix of townhouse, duplexes and doubles. It carries a $7 million price tag.

Construction will begin later this summer and the units should be welcoming their new residents within a year, Pawlik said.

In all, BMHA wants to see more than 200 homes constructed in the neighborhood, said Modesto Candelario, agency assistant executive director.

The plan is to move residents there from the current A.D. Price housing units.

"It's all about providing a higher quality of life," Pawlik said. "It's about bringing back a neighborhood that's been gone for years."

There have been signs of life along Jefferson Avenue with the opening of a Tops Markets and the presence of the Johnny B. Wiley Sports Pavilion, the former War Memorial Stadium, coupled with the Frank Merriweather Public Library.

Former Buffalo Common Council President James Pitts is working on his own urban revitalization project, not far from the A.D. Price neighborhood.

"Individually and collectively, these are seeds," Pawlik said.

From the end of the latter article, I thought this was interesting:

A fish story

Does this scenario sound familiar?

A community hopes to lure Bass Pro Shops by offering a very handsome incentive package - all with the intent of using the retailing giant to anchor a larger urban development effort.

No, it wasn't Buffalo.

In this case, it was Mesa, Ariz. - near Phoenix - that provided $80 million in incentives to get Bass Pro there. The incentive package was, by the way, approved by voters - winning a 2005 ballot referendum by 56 percent.

You read that right - Mesa, part of the thriving Phoenix metropolitan area - used $80 million to bring in Bass Pro. The store opened in early June and has been jam-packed ever since.

Suddenly, Buffalo's $25 million deal with Bass Pro looks like a bargain, especially when rent and sales tax revenues are factored into the equation.
Are there any casinos near Phoenix? (besides Las Vegas)

Kaleida in talks for Main Street buildings in downtown Buffalo
Paladino purchasedcluster in 2000
By Sharon Linstedt NEWS BUSINESS REPORTER
Updated: 07/11/08 9:17 AM


A cluster of faded buildings in the 1000 block of Main Street near North Street in Buffalo will likely get a shot in the arm from Kaleida Health.

Kaleida is in final negotiations with Buffalo developer Carl P. Paladino to lease a three-story, turn-of-the- 20th-century building at 1010 Main St. for outpatient clinics. That deal could see Kaleida occupying the vacant, 36,000-square-foot structure by late 2009.

The hospital operator is also interested in leasing the Paladino-owned, four-story building next door, at 1028 Main St. That circa-1900 structure was a long-time classroom building for Bryant & Stratton business school.

“Talks are pretty hot and heavy now,” Paladino said. “They’re looking at a phased approach where they’d eventually take over that whole block of buildings. That would get them to more than 70,000 square feet.”

As part of the deal, the developer plans to demolish a nearly 80-year-old, one-story building at 1008 Main St. to create a 39-slot parking lot for Kaleida’s use.

Kaleida spokesman Michael Hughes confirmed Kaleida’s interest in expanding along the west side of Main Street, between Goodrich and North streets.

“As we move forward on our relocation of services from Millard Fillmore [Hospital] to Buffalo General [Hospital], and partnership with the Erie County Medical Center, it’s clear not everything is going to fit,” Hughes said.

Kaleida has not made any final decisions about what clinics it would locate in the 1000 block of Main Street, but the outpatient dialysis center, now housed at Buffalo General, is among the leading candidates.

“Its current location inside the hospital tower is not as patient-friendly as we’d like. Moving it to Main Street would make it more accessible,” Hughes said.

He said tapping available space at 1010 Main St. and adjoining structures will have benefits beyond giving Kaleida needed elbow room.

“It’s more than decompression for us. We’d be revitalizing that section of Main Street, improving the aesthetics and bringing critical mass,” Hughes said.

The Kaleida spokesman described the cost of redeveloping the idle buildings as “significant,” with the price tag running into the millions of dollars. Ironically, Kaleida will be spending money to make improvements on leased space it previously owned.

In 2000, the health firm bought a total of four adjacent properties in the block as part of a master plan to stake its claims on sites bordering the emerging Buffalo Niagara Medical Campus. In addition to 1010 Main St., Kaleida also acquired 1008, 1028 and 1030 Main St.

It sold the group of buildings to Paladino in 2004, who floated a variety of plans for the sites, including demolition of the former Bryant & Stratton site to make way for a Rite-Aid drug store.

More recently, Paladino has talked about a mixed-use redevelopment that would include housing, offices and retail space. The developer did convert the former Nirelli’s gas station at 1030 Main St., at North Street, for use as a retail site.

Initial plans for a Quiznos Sub shop unraveled before the restaurant opened, and a local deli operator had only a brief run at the site. Paladino said he’s currently in talks with a retailer to fill space.

Paladino last week obtained approval from the Buffalo Preservation Board to tear down the small building at 1008 Main St. His demolition and parking lot plans will be reviewed by the Buffalo Planning Board next Tuesday.

slinstedt@buffnews.com

Are there any casinos near Phoenix? (besides Las Vegas)

I just googled and there is one in Mesa - Casino Arizona it looked like an Indian Casino. Laughlin Nevada isn't too far either. I was in Laughlin a few years ago it's like a small clean Las Vegas right on the border with Arizona.

Are you planning a trip out there?

No, it was a tongue-in-cheek remark to "Bass Pro always building next to casinos".

Not planning a trip, but who knows. I have grandparents in LV and they actually recently asked me to visit. Not this year because with buying a house, my finances look like somebody dropped a bomb on them - but maybe in the near future long you have before it's too late, you know? I couldn't care less about LV and casinos, but it's a region I'd like to see at least once.

The casino ruling has just claimed its first development project. Paladino says his plans to put a hotel and high-end apartments in the Fairmont Creamery building in Cobblestone are now on hold. (if you can believe him) Post coming to Buffalo Rising any minute.

^^ Translation: He never intended to really build it... and is now using the casino news as a convenient excuse.

Hasn't he done this before?

^^ Translation: He never intended to really build it... and is now using the casino news as a convenient excuse.

Hasn't he done this before?

Not like there isn't anything else on his plate either....50 Court, Waterfront Place II, Baker Shoe, Busti, 1000 block of Main...

He's just adding to his portfolio. Somebody has to tell him that's not the one you typically want to add to.

Is it just me, or had we never heard of this project until now? That's funny, because I was going to move the Burj Dubai (or whatever it's called) to the Bethlehem Steel site but I'm not going to now because Paladino isn't building his thing because of the casino lawsuit.

When he purchased HO Oats and Fairmont, he said he planned residential in each. The Senecas bought HO Oats for the casino. He started gutting Fairmont last year and said he was proceeding with his residential project. The hotel component is new. When I was by there two weeks ago, there were a couple dumpsters oustide of the building, but it didn't look like much was happening.

Speaking of nothing happening, that billboard at the foot of the skyway (visible heading outbound) still proclaims for us to "look for" Ciminelli's "redefinition" of the term "short list" in December 2007. At least it was there a few weeks ago (last time I went this long between trips downtown I was living in NH).

What a load of BS that sign is. Maybe it was a contract for a crappy office park and they didn't get "shortlisted". Of course the worst part about it is it's completely ambiguous - no other text, no picture, not even a watermark of something. I'm guessing maybe to do with that Erie Basin site (of which I would consider none of the proposals as redefining anything at all). Long story short, I think I'd rather see another huge billboard asking "INJURED?" with Light Bulb Head and Unethical Dude's Zeus-ian mugs. (I've referred to them by those comic book superhero names since at least late last year, I think you can guess who is who.)

LOL I forgot that Buff had a temporary casino on the waterfront.

Looks like that judge doesnt like gambling.

Did anyone put up the article yet?




A judge in Buffalo ruled that the Senecas were not allowed to build, but they ignored him and are still constructing. lol

Tuesday, July 8, 2008 - 3:29 PM EDT
Senecas: Ruling won't close Buffalo Casino

Business First of Buffalo - by James Fink Business First

The Seneca Gaming Corp. said Tuesday's decision by U.S. District Court Judge William Skretny will not stop them from operating the Seneca Buffalo Creek Casino or moving ahead with construction of its $333 million gaming center in downtown Buffalo.

Skretny, in a 127-page decision, ruled that a 9-acre parcel acquired by the Seneca Gaming Corp., an arm of the Seneca Nation of Indians, in 2005 is "Indian country."

But, at the same time, Skretny said a July 2, 2007 decision by the National Indian Gaming Commission that allowed gaming to take place on the land is "arbitrary, capricious and not in accordance with the law."

Skretny made his decision in a federal case filed against National Indian Gaming Commission by several plaintiffs headed by the anti-gaming advocacy group, Citizens Against Casino Gambling in Erie County. The Seneca Nation of Indians and Seneca Gaming Corp. were not named in the suit, but were considered friends of the court.

An appeal, which is likely, will come from the U.S. government and not the Seneca Nation or Seneca Gaming.

"The temporary Seneca Buffalo Creek Casino will continue to operate as usual while the Seneca Nation of Indians confers with the United States government as to the effects of today's decision," said Barry Snyder Sr., Seneca Gaming chairman, in a release issued Tuesday afternoon.

However, one of the lawyers representing the anti-gaming contingent disputed Seneca Gaming's response.

"If they continue to gamble, they are doing so illegally," said Buffalo attorney Richard Lippes.

Lippes warned if gaming continues at the temporary Seneca Buffalo Creek Casino his group may seek a federal injunction to shut down the slot machine-only operation.

No injunctions are expected to be filed against the construction of the permanent casino.

"They can build the casino, they just can't operate it," Lippes said.

The casino is the largest private development in Buffalo's history. The facility includes 202 hotel suites and more than 90,000 square feet of gaming space. Construction began last year. The casino is expected to open in two years.

The temporary Seneca Buffalo Creek Casino, which opened on July 3, 2007 just hours after the National Indian Gaming Commission approved the operation attracted more than 400,000 people in its first year.

A job fair for the more than 1,000 openings at the permanent casino drew at least that many applicants.

"The citizens of Buffalo and their elected leaders have been eagerly awaiting the development of Seneca Buffalo Creek Casino as a signature project in downtown Buffalo," Snyder said. "That was clear when nearly 1,000 people came to a job preview event in 2006 and has been echoed every day since we opened the doors to the temporary casino."

Seneca Nation President Maurice John Sr. remains confident that the Indian tribe will prevail when the appeal is filed the Second Circuit Appeals Court. The land is sovereign Indian territory John said.

"As 'Indian Country' recognized by the United States, the nation has wide latitude over how it uses those lands now and long into the future."

Representatives from both sides agree that the length and complexity of Skretny's decision requires further legal review.

"The court's decision is lengthy and requires more closer analysis," John said. "We will be reviewing the decision carefully, as we want to be sure that the court was aware of and considered all of the applicable federal law."

"No question this is another battle in a long war," Lippes said. "We believe, and has always believed, that the law is very strong in our favor."

wow talk about me being late... lol

what's going on with the buffalo city tower? is it still in the works?

^^No one knows

what's going on with the buffalo city tower? is it still in the works?

Totally DEAD - the developer has not been in the US for at least 6 months, he has filed for bankruptcy in the UK and Realty USA is no longer even marketing the office space. You will see gas at 32 cents a gallon before you see the City Tower.

Hopefully a real developer will see the poential for such a tower within the next few years. After all the HSBC (Hire Sincere Buffalonians Call center ) lease expires in a few years and they may transfer call center work from Calcutta to Buffalo thus needing more space.

:lol: Poor HSBC. :lol:

no more Hope for another forty Story Buffalo Call center :(

^^hahaha.... very clever

when is horizons and what subdivision is it in this year?

Holy Shit Buffalo's Cold! (or Cool)

Heavy Snow Blankets Canada

Speaking of subdivisions and your "location", I see Spaulding Green finally met approval. I guess that asswipe Matt Balling finally submitted to the arguments in my revised TIS.

He wanted ridiculous levels of detail and assumptions, and he got them. But be careful what you ask/wish for - upon doing it "his way" the developer's arguments only became stronger. What do you want from a DOT employee, though.

I might as well add my acronym...Holy Sh!t my Bank is Chinese?

^^hahaha.... very clever

when is horizons and what subdivision is it in this year?

I think it starts next weekend, and it is back in Orchard Park's Birdsong.

Holy Shit Buffalo's Cold! (or Cool)

Heavy Snow Blankets Canada

No No No,
It's Hot Sauce and Blue Cheese

Speaking of subdivisions and your "location", I see Spaulding Green finally met approval. I guess that asswipe Matt Balling finally submitted to the arguments in my revised TIS.

He wanted ridiculous levels of detail and assumptions, and he got them. But be careful what you ask/wish for - upon doing it "his way" the developer's arguments only became stronger. What do you want from a DOT employee, though.

The last thing Clarence needs is another $450,000+ mega-neighborhood. There are plenty of forclosed homes and homes for sale in Spaulding Lake.

^^ Not according to Mr Piestrak:

Housing bust isn't stopping huge project proposed for Clarence (http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/390737.html)
...

No project that large has been undertaken in this region for quite awhile. But Dominick Piestrak, its developer, says he isn’t worried about the area’s troubled economy, its continuing loss of population or the slipping value of homes — even luxurious ones.

“There is a market,” Piestrak said. He has the track record, having developed the nearby ultra-expensive enclave of Spaulding Lake and Orchard Park’s tony Birdsong subdivision.

But if you live on adjoining Green Valley Drive, big is not beautiful. The quiet dead-end street would be extended to provide access to Spaulding Greens.

“It will destroy the character of our neighborhood,” said Frank Cordaro, who raised his children on Green Valley, a street so car-free that it has become a playground for children from neighboring streets.

If undertaken, Spaulding Green will look something like Birdsong, Piestrak said.

Half of the area — located east of Goodrich Road and north of Greiner Road — will consist of lakes, along with forests and wetlands that eventually will lead to the town arboretum, now being established.

It also will feature a bike path that connects to the Clarence Town Hall, Town Park and Library.

Homes will include $200,000-plus “four-plexes” — small clusters of single-story, ranch style homes — plus upscale patio homes in the $400,000 range and luxury homes of $1 million or so, Piestrak said.

“It’s going to be the nicest one I’ve done,” he said.

But home building in the area has declined, although not as steeply as nationally.

From January through May, building permits for single-family homes in the Buffalo Niagara region dropped 17 percent from the same five-month period a year ago, the National Association of Home Builders recently reported.

Nationally, the year-overyear decline was 41 percent, and the statewide drop was 30 percent.

Buffalo Niagara’s total of 320 building permits through May for single-family homes was fourth highest among the dozen metro areas in the state.

But Spaulding Greens, Piestrak said, will appeal mostly to the two healthiest sectors of the housing market these days: well-off empty nesters and the financially thriving grown children of baby boomers.

The first have cash but do not want high-maintenance homes; the second want bragging rights.

“They’ve been successful, and they want the houses that show it,” he said.

The typical first-time buyers — young families — will have to make do with existing homes, he said, since building a home they can afford has become impossible.

...

Three comments:

- Too bad the "urban village" iteration failed, due no doubt to the progressive Balling-types who seem to populate Clarence (mister "the DOT analyzes and retimes its signals every couple weeks" - bull shit if they did they'd have nowhere to go but get better).

- As usual we have the "character of the neighborhood" crowd. I bet you could propose something in the middle of the east side and still have these types come out of the woodwork. And it's not just in Buffalo, either.

- Site plan layout as I was familiar with it from doing the TIS was just a bigger, larger lot version of Loch Lea. I would still say Birdsong is more "impressive", though I personally don't care for either. Of course if I had the money I'd sooner invest in one of those houses than do what so many of them do and invest in something that's guaranteed to depreciate, like a Hummer or something.

So it is going next to and around Pine Meadows.

Will they connect Glen Iris Drive and Rosecroft Drive to Spaulding Greens too?

Any news on when the Reno Bass Pro opens?


This is some creative site design for Spaulding Green.

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/5366/sgreenoe5.png

...

Any news on when the Reno Bass Pro opens?

Are you a sporting goods store groupie or stalker?:)

Anyone else wondering what effect the Inbev purchase of Budwieser will have on the Buffalo Labatt offices?

No No No,
It's Hot Sauce and Blue Cheese
funny stuff...:lol:

Totally DEAD - the developer has not been in the US for at least 6 months, he has filed for bankruptcy in the UK and Realty USA is no longer even marketing the office space. You will see gas at 32 cents a gallon before you see the City Tower.

Hopefully a real developer will see the poential for such a tower within the next few years. After all the HSBC (Hire Sincere Buffalonians Call center ) lease expires in a few years and they may transfer call center work from Calcutta to Buffalo thus needing more space.
i'm sorry to hear this. the renderings of that tower looked phenomenal..:ohno:

Maybe the proposal was just a couple of years premature.

Anyone else wondering what effect the Inbev purchase of Budwieser will have on the Buffalo Labatt offices?

I dunno Jerome, you tell us.

Anyone else wondering what effect the Inbev purchase of Budwieser will have on the Buffalo Labatt offices?

Nothing