http://www.cityofboston.gov/news/default.aspx?ID=3225
Boston is honored and proud to be recruited by Major League Soccer to be the potential home for the New England Revolution,” said Mayor Thomas M. Menino. “This is a fantastic opportunity for our city and our neighborhoods, but it will require a throughout exploration of possible sites – we need to make sure this works for Boston residents.”
Do you think there's any chance to get past NIMBY's in Boston ?

cool!


...it will be hard

It would be great if they built a stadium.

It should become home to the Boston Cannons Major League Lacrosse team, because the ground they play at now is an absolute disgrace.

It would be great if they built a stadium.

It should become home to the Boston Cannons Major League Lacrosse team, because the ground they play at now is an absolute disgrace.
Sure, they would have to pay rent, but they would probably become the flagship franchise of MLL.
I think the best locations for a stadium would be either Suffolk Downs or Wonderland Dog Track. Dog track racing is on life support, and Suffolk Downs isn't far behind unless they can get slot machines approved.
Parking, T access, major roads in the area, reasonably close to Boston, and probably not a whole lot of NIMBYs.

Are in they in Foxboro right now?

Are in they in Foxboro right now?

Yes, they play at Gilette Stadium, in Foxboro, Massachusetts.

It's about time the New England Revolution announced plans for a soccer-specific stadium. Since the rise of Soccer Specific Stadiums I always wanted the Revolution to have one.

Haen't heard of any news lately?

There's no news about a stadium unfortunately, but there are rumours that with the announcement of the new "Beckham Rule", Luis Figo might go to New York or the Revolution. There's are large portuguese communitys in Framingham, Fall River and New Bedford.

A Boston MLS stadium would be awesome..... It would be cool if they could just use Fenway though.

we have forums for almost every other soccer league's stadiums so i thought we could start one for mls, if people have pictures of different mls stadiums add them to this thread

http://www2.bmo.com/bmo/files/images/4/1/bmo_field.jpg

DC United

RFK Stadium - Washington D.C.:

http://www.lesitedeschampions.ca/stadewas-rfk-ext.jpg
http://www.ballparks.com/baseball/american/rfksta03.jpg
http://www.kenn.com/images/rfk_panorama02.jpg
http://www.cspl.umd.edu/gallery/albums/ACMilanvsBarcelona/rfk_stadium.sized.jpg
http://www.juliocesar.com/barcelona/images/rfk_stadium_shot.jpg
http://www.jeffchin.com/pix/dcu/freddy.jpg
http://www.jeffchin.com/pix/dcu/field3.jpg
http://www.cspl.umd.edu/gallery/albums/ACMilanvsBarcelona/IMG_7249.sized.jpg
http://www.cspl.umd.edu/gallery/albums/ACMilanvsBarcelona/IMG_7313.sized.jpg
http://www.cspl.umd.edu/gallery/albums/ACMilanvsBarcelona/IMG_7263.jpg
http://www.cspl.umd.edu/gallery/albums/ACMilanvsBarcelona/IMG_7258.jpg
http://www.cspl.umd.edu/gallery/albums/ACMilanvsBarcelona/IMG_7277.jpg


**Is also used by the Washington Nationals of the MLB(Major League Baseball)

http://www.silverscreentest.com/koala/eucalyptus/dreamrfk.jpg
http://www.baseballparks.com/Images/RFK-int480.jpg
http://cache.deadspin.com/assets/2006/06/rfkstadiumwayup.jpg

Capacity:
Soccer: 52,000
Baseball: 46,382

my fav
http://www.concacaf.com/competitions/goldcup/2005/downloads/RELIANT_STADIUM/Reliant2.png

my fav
http://www.concacaf.com/competitions/goldcup/2005/downloads/RELIANT_STADIUM/Reliant2.png

I've love that pic, seen it before.

I wish we had a stadium like that in Australia that hugged the pitch that much.

It looks like the stands have been painted on a wall...
I also looked at the RFK stadium wrong and thought the upper tier was flat. :S

Good to see large crowds, though.

just how tall is Reliant (inclusive of the roof)?

it looks insanely huge

Except that Reliant isn't an MLS stadium, it's only used for international matches.

Home Depot Center - 27, 000

home of the LA Beckhams and Chivas USA

http://www.jpmorganchaseopen.com/images/homedepot_photo.jpg

http://services.pcl.com/media/files/Projects/52_SWRegion/5200161_1_300.jpg

http://www.meyersound.com/news/2003/home_depot/web/from_stands.jpg

http://www.concacaf.com/competitions/goldcup/2005/downloads/HOME_DEPOT_CENTER/HomeDepot2.jpg

http://www.meyersound.com/news/2003/home_depot/web/from_stands3.jpg

http://www.concacaf.com/competitions/goldcup/2005/downloads/HOME_DEPOT_CENTER/HomeDepot.jpg

Geez RFK Stadium is ugly!! Reliant is a cool looking stadium. But if it's not used in the MLS, it doesn't really apply to this thread.

I didn't realise that the Home Depot Centre *cringes @ the name* had bench seats! How old is it?

Giants Stadium - 80, 000

current home of the Metrostars/Red Bull New York

http://www.concacaf.com/competitions/goldcup/2005/downloads/GIANTS%20STADIUM/GiantsStadium2.jpg

http://www.concacaf.com/competitions/goldcup/2005/downloads/GIANTS%20STADIUM/GiantsStadium3.jpg

http://www.concacaf.com/competitions/goldcup/2005/downloads/GIANTS%20STADIUM/GiantsStadium4.jpg

http://www.concacaf.com/competitions/goldcup/2005/downloads/GIANTS%20STADIUM/GiantsStadium6.TIF

Geez RFK Stadium is ugly!! Reliant is a cool looking stadium. But if it's not used in the MLS, it doesn't really apply to this thread.

I didn't realise that the Home Depot Centre *cringes @ the name* had bench seats! How old is it?

HDC opened in 2003. It has bench style seats behind the goals. Rest of the stadium has regular seats.

New York will have Red Bull Park soon. When does it open? It looks like a cool little stadium. Who is playing in that pic of Giants Stadium? Looks like Juventus & who else?

I think it should be pointed out to non-Americans here that stadiums such as the above Giants Stadium shown with 80,000 Soccer Fans are very misleading, these are doubtless international matches or perhaps an exhibition match, or perhaps a photo from WC '94. New York would be lucky to get 15,000 on a good day. Those stadiums are outrageously bigger than the demand because they are gridiron stadiums.

The biggest Soccer Specific Stadium is the LA Galaxy one (also they have the biggest turnout and revenue in the league). Always found it weird that LA happily supports two soccer clubs from a league of twelve, but no NFL Franchise from a league of 32.

Most of these stadia are not 'soccer'(football) specific. For example Reliant stadium is an NFL stadium and isn't used in the MLS

Columbus Crew Stadium - 21, 000

http://www.clarkcompanies.com/Site%20Revision/images/Large%20Project%20Photos/Columbus%20Crew%20Stadium.jpg

http://stadiony.net/pictures/usa/columbus_crew_stadium/columbus_crew_stadium01.jpg

http://stadiony.net/pictures/usa/columbus_crew_stadium/columbus_crew_stadium02.jpg

http://stadiony.net/pictures/usa/columbus_crew_stadium/columbus_crew_stadium04.jpg

http://stadiony.net/pictures/usa/columbus_crew_stadium/columbus_crew_stadium05.jpg

http://stadiony.net/pictures/usa/columbus_crew_stadium/columbus_crew_stadium06.jpg

http://stadiony.net/pictures/usa/columbus_crew_stadium/columbus_crew_stadium09.jpg

columbus stadium reminds me of bmo field

New York will have Red Bull Park soon. When does it open? It looks like a cool little stadium. Who is playing in that pic of Giants Stadium? Looks like Juventus & who else?

looks like their playing manchester united

columbus stadium reminds me of bmo field


BBN
Bare Bones Necessity.

Except that Reliant isn't an MLS stadium, it's only used for international matches.

yeah...

Red Bull Park
http://www.mlsnet.com/images/2006/08/11/XJFoOv9S.jpg

Pizza Hut Park (Dallas, TX)
http://www.stadiumguide.com/pizzahutpark1.jpg
http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/img/04-06/0406mls.jpg

Toyota Park (Chicago, IL)
http://stadiony.net/pictures/usa/toyota_park/toyota_park04.jpg
http://stadiony.net/pictures/usa/toyota_park/toyota_park02.jpg

The Home Depot Center

http://www.vanguard.edu/uploadedImages/PR/vtour/homedepotcenter.jpg

Pizza Hut Park

http://www.texanscu.org/uploadedImages/About_Us/The_Community/Stadium%20Crowd%20Pizza%20Hut%20Park.jpg

Robertson Stadium

http://www.uh.edu/campus_map/photos/rs_01.jpg

Crew Stadium

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a6/Columbus_crew_stadium_mls_allstars_2005.jpg

Toyota Park

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4e/Toyotapark.jpg

Poplar Point Stadium

http://www.mlsnet.com/dcu/imgs/stadium/2006/rendering_bowl_sw.jpg

http://dcunited.mlsnet.com/images/2006/08/07/ZSPwAvaZ.gif

Wow I thought soccer wasn't very popular in the U.S looks like the stadiumms get a good turn out...I thought the just used foot ball stadiums

Poplar Point Stadium

http://www.mlsnet.com/dcu/imgs/stadium/2006/rendering_bowl_sw.jpg

http://dcunited.mlsnet.com/images/2006/08/07/ZSPwAvaZ.gif

wow, that DC United render looks real cool. I love the new stadium design of one side having all the luxary suites (Soldier Field or Philips Arena).

It's starting to drive me nuts all of the naming rights to stadiums these days. Some of the names sound ridiculous.

Anyways, does anyone know why the roofs on some of these stadia sit so high above the stands? Ie. Toyota Park? I can see corporate suites above the grandstand, but then there is a huge gap to the roof. I'm thinking maybe so more can be installed if needed? I don't think the roof would be all that useful at that height above the stands.

The Poplar Point stadium looks pretty cool.

to drive me nuts all of the naming rights to stadiums these days. Some of the names sound ridiculous.

Anyways, does anyone know why the roofs on some of these stadia sit so high above the stands? Ie. Toyota Park? I can see corporate suites above the grandstand, but then there is a huge gap to the roof. I'm thinking maybe so more can be installed if needed? I don't think the roof would be all that useful at that height above the stands.

Yea, the names can be pretty lame. But better on the stadiums then on the shirts I say though.:lol:

In the case of Toyota Park (and many of the others) the stadiums are meant to be prepared for further expansion so I do beleive that is why it is like that.

some of the stadiums are built with expansion in mind.... some are more difficult to expand.

Pizza Hut Park? *vomits*

Pizza Hut Park? *vomits*

Just wait untill Birmingham's new stadium.......

how about Dick's Sporting Goods Park in Colorado, that is even worse than any of the other ones

Toyota Park; Home of the Chicago Fire


http://www.rossetti.com/sports/img/chicago_fire/chicago_fire_L_04.jpg

Pizza Hut Park? *vomits*


im with you i hate it...i love FC Dallas, but i hate Pizza Hut Park...the name and the stadium sucks...i really wish they stayed at the Cotton Bowl and fixed it up

(at least then one of the MLS stadiums would have some tradition with it)

or at least move to the new cowboys stadium.

(at least then one of the MLS stadiums would have some tradition with it)

What strong soccer tradition does the Cotton Bowl have?

If you're talking about sports tradition in general, then don't forget that MLS teams all or have called stadiums like Giants Stadium, RFK Stadium, and Soldier Field home.

the Cotton Bowl was no good for MLS long term.... PHP could use some improvements, it's just lacking that wow factor... of course a proper sellout every game with passionate supporters could fix that in no time.

Pizza Hut Park (FC Dallas)
http://www.accentav.com/images/Accent%20Images/Pizza%20Hut/Soccer.jpg

Dick's Sporting Goods Park (Colorado Rapids)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/40/Dick%27s_Park.jpg/800px-Dick%27s_Park.jpg

Toyota Park (Chicago Fire)
http://static.flickr.com/98/234300744_945d114b86.jpg

The Poplar Point stadium looks pretty cool.

Unfortunately the Poplar Point stadium deal may have fallen through.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/20/AR2007072002470.html

This is a very complicated issue for the team and the city and it's politicians, and while it's not completely dead yet, it's certainly not looking good for DC United.

Attendance figures for MLS 2007 through June:

1. Los Angeles Galaxy: 23,595
2. Toronto FC: 19,938 (SOLD OUT)
3. DC United: 16,902
4. Real Salt Lake: 15,949
5. Houston: 15,549
6. Chicago Fire: 15,469
7. Chivas: 15,340
8. Dallas: 15,082
9. Colorado: 14,568
10. New England: 14,258
11. Columbus: 12,988
12. New York Red Bulls: 9,765
13. Kansas City: 9,720

Looks like a great little league over in America.

Probably now they just got to get the quality on the field right and it will become a great success.

No doubt the USA will someday win the ultimate prize.

Quality would improve drastically if they merged CONMEBOL and CONCACAF. You get the feeling that with 3.5 automatic slots for North American sides for the World Cup they are quite comfortable with the status quo and this protects the North American sides from the South American masters.

Initially you will get pain, but ultimately you would get much, much better.

New York will have Red Bull Park soon. When does it open? It looks like a cool little stadium. Who is playing in that pic of Giants Stadium? Looks like Juventus & who else?

It was Manchester United - a preseason tour in 2004 as I remember. It think we won about 4-1.

I'm sure the game set an attendance record at Giants Stadium of something like 80,006 - which was a little surprising given that that sort of implied that the Giants had never sold out a game before (and I can't believe that).

While it's good that an English team versus an Italian team team managed to sell out Giants Stadium, it all sounded like a bit of PR-driven story to me...

im with you i hate it...i love FC Dallas, but i hate Pizza Hut Park...the name and the stadium sucks...i really wish they stayed at the Cotton Bowl and fixed it up

(at least then one of the MLS stadiums would have some tradition with it)

or at least move to the new cowboys stadium.

What's happening to Texas Stadium? That would be ideal, wouldn't it?

What's happening to Texas Stadium? That would be ideal, wouldn't it?

It's way too big. FC Dallas draws under 20,000 per game, and like most MLS teams doesn't need a stadium over 25,000 people. I assume Texas Stadium will get destroyed after the Cowboys move out.

They could have easily taken out the upper deck and suites at Texas Stadium as the roof is a seperate, free standing structure and the lower bowl is actually built into the ground. Instead, FC Dallas took the cheapest deal they could as far north in the suburbs as they could get, leaving behind much of their fanbase in Dallas proper. The lower bowl of Texas Stadium would have made a great, intimate venue with a full roof and room for expansion. They could have even taken out some seating in each endzone and kept just the closest seating with perhaps a grass hill above those seats. There will even be a future light rail stop there. Texas Stadium's location would have been more indicative of more fans getting to the games. The new stadium is simply way way north and in tollway land where most people don't even want to drive.

Instead it will be torn down and plans call for a large urban village taking over the land.

Or they could have spent precisely nothing on keeping the upper tier exactly as it is. If the sight of empty seating affects the atmosphere, then maybe just curtain it off for MLS games - like many indoor arenas often do. This way they could still use the additional capacity for exhibition and/or international matches. There must be just a negligible differential cost of maintenace.

There's also then the capability to host concerts and other sporting events in the close season.

What about all those High School games that got, like 42,000 fans in at TS? Will Jerryworld be hosting them too?

It all seems a bit wasteful. What is it, 65,000? Outside of (United, Arsenal and now Liverpool) 3 teams in the English Premiership, every other club would die for a facility like Texas Stadium.

I guess it's the other side of having such a vibrant stadium construction climate in the US but it's not too shabby here, either and even so, I can imagine fans of big teams like Chelsea and Spurs watching Texas Stadium being demolished and just shaking their heads with amazement.

FC Dallas would never own texas Stadium..... which is the WHOLE point of MLS teams moving into new stadiums.

The new Red Bull stadium will be the best

That one rendering Kansas City released was pretty cool with the huge curving roof and separate stand and what not, I definitely want to see where that goes.

That one rendering Kansas City released was pretty cool with the huge curving roof and separate stand and what not, I definitely want to see where that goes.

Do you have a pic of the rendering?

Do you have a pic of the rendering?

Here you go
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_menu/past_future/pictures/future_stadiums/kansas_city_wizards.jpg

KCW are still looking for the right location though

And here is the updated DC united stadium
http://www.bobbyboswell.com/wp-content/uploads/_w-hotel_nsm.jpg

and finally the new Real Salt Lake stadium: Under construction
http://www.iconvenue.com/global/images/popups/sandy_stadium_7_popup.jpg

some fine stadia right there!

I've just noticed something odd. All the MLS renders seem to be done digitally, whereas many (though not all) proposed NFL/MLB/College are conceptualised using old-fashioned artists' impressions.

It's like the more mainstream projects almost have to be seen using the more traditional types of visualisation. Has anyone else noticed that?

Quality would improve drastically if they merged CONMEBOL and CONCACAF. You get the feeling that with 3.5 automatic slots for North American sides for the World Cup they are quite comfortable with the status quo and this protects the North American sides from the South American masters.



I completely agree, CONCACAF is a complete joke with only two competitive teams, and it artificially inflates the FIFA rankings of USA and Mexico giving people false hope in World Cups.

Better competition would yield better WC results in the future for Team USA .

I've just noticed something odd. All the MLS renders seem to be done digitally, whereas many (though not all) proposed NFL/MLB/College are conceptualised using old-fashioned artists' impressions.

It's like the more mainstream projects almost have to be seen using the more traditional types of visualisation. Has anyone else noticed that?

yes. which is why SLC had actual drawings, while most of the others are rendered.

Im glad MLS are getting their own soccer specific stadiums. I hate soccer being played in a large baseball stadium with a weird diamond-shaped seating arrangements. and i hate it being played in large football stadiums because the field dimensions dont meet requirements. soccer deserves to be played in small match box stadiums like in europe...

so kudos :D

but but but... i insist they change pizza hut stadium... that stadium sucks.

I completely agree, CONCACAF is a complete joke with only two competitive teams, and it artificially inflates the FIFA rankings of USA and Mexico giving people false hope in World Cups.

Better competition would yield better WC results in the future for Team USA .

Is that the reason why the only way American's won agaisnt Canada in the Gold Cup was through garbage calls by the referee?

Is that the reason why the only way American's won agaisnt Canada in the Gold Cup was through garbage calls by the referee?

That's your own obviously biased opinion and doesn't deserve an argument.

Here you go
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_menu/past_future/pictures/future_stadiums/kansas_city_wizards.jpg

KCW are still looking for the right location though

And here is the updated DC united stadium
http://www.bobbyboswell.com/wp-content/uploads/_w-hotel_nsm.jpg

and finally the new Real Salt Lake stadium: Under construction
http://www.iconvenue.com/global/images/popups/sandy_stadium_7_popup.jpg


Those are awesome. I especially like KC's idea, does that roof block the hot evening sun?

^must be... anyway there are now 11/13 teams in mls with soccer stadiums... 2 more to go; new england + chicago.

Chicago has had one for a while. KC and DC aren't for sure things, but I do hope they get done.

^must be... anyway there are now 11/13 teams in mls with soccer stadiums... 2 more to go; new england + chicago.


correction:
14 teams will begin the 2008 season (SJ returns) of those:

7 teams currently play in SSS:
LA, Chivas, Dallas, Colorado, Chicago, Toronto, Columbus

2 teams have SSS under construction:
NYRB (completion in 2009) RSL (completion in 2008)

3 teams have proposals:
DC United, Kansas City, San Jose

1 team is in talks with the city about a SSS:
Houston

1 team has no plans for a SSS:
New England

That's your own obviously biased opinion and doesn't deserve an argument.

It is easy to label someone biased because of nationality, and insulting to say someone isn't capable of objectiveness because of it. If you don't think Canadians are capable of objectivity regarding that soccer game, I suggest you sample the opinions of soccer fans around the world who watched it.

Those that watched it almost universally accept that the Canadian goal should never have been waived off. Canada was robbed whether you want to admit it or not. It is you who has allowed bias to cloud your objectivity.

Horrible officiating costs teams wins all the time. It is excruciatingly frustrating to watch, but it happens, and will continue to happen. You just need to accept it, and move on. I've moved on, what I can't accept is such a blind assertion that the win was deserved. I played sports for many years, and would never ever want to win like that. The USA won, but their players will always know that they stole that one. At least the ones with an ounce of sportsmanship and integrity anyway.

correction:
14 teams will begin the 2008 season (SJ returns) of those:

7 teams currently play in SSS:
LA, Chivas, Dallas, Colorado, Chicago, Toronto, Columbus

2 teams have SSS under construction:
NYRB (completion in 2009) RSL (completion in 2008)

3 teams have proposals:
DC United, Kansas City, San Jose

1 team is in talks with the city about a SSS:
Houston

1 team has no plans for a SSS:
New England

Does San Jose have any renderings for their proposal?

Does San Jose have any renderings for their proposal?

some fan made renderings I think.

correction:
14 teams will begin the 2008 season (SJ returns) of those:

7 teams currently play in SSS:
LA, Chivas, Dallas, Colorado, Chicago, Toronto, Columbus

2 teams have SSS under construction:
NYRB (completion in 2009) RSL (completion in 2008)

3 teams have proposals:
DC United, Kansas City, San Jose

1 team is in talks with the city about a SSS:
Houston

1 team has no plans for a SSS:
New England

New England is infact in talks with the city about a stadium.


Revolution’s the goal: Somerville talks stadium with Krafts

Thursday, August 2, 2007 - Updated: 08:18 AM EST

Somerville is emerging as a contender to land what could be the Boston area’s next big major league sports stadium.
Major League Soccer’s New England Revolution and Somerville officials have held preliminary discussions about building a 20,000-plus seat soccer stadium on a site not far from Charlestown, Mayor Joseph Curtatone confirmed.
The 100-acre tract of vacant lots, industrial buildings and rail lines off Innerbelt Road near Interstate 93 has long been targeted by Somerville for redevelopment.
The talks come roughly a year after the Revolution - part of the Kraft family’s sports and business empire that includes the New England Patriots [team stats] - began searching for a stadium site. Robert Kraft recently attended an event held by the Somerville mayor, though Curtatone contends the visit was unrelated to the stadium interest.


“We have had very preliminary inquiries and conversations,” Curtatone said. “It’s exciting to think that an organization like the New England Revolution and Kraft family would be interested in Somerville, but we are not surprised.”
A new Revs soccer stadium could have between 20,000 and 25,000 seats and cost anywhere from $50 million to $200 million to build, based on other new stadiums Major League Soccer has built around the country.
These stadiums are specifically designed for soccer, with fewer seats than big football stadiums, like Gillette Stadium, where the Revs play now.
They also often double as concert venues, one local sports executive says. With a central, urban location like Somerville, the Krafts would immediately become players in the local concert industry and a powerful competitor to the suburban Tweeter Center, which is not far from Gillette Stadium.
The Krafts’ interest in Somerville comes after inquiries in Boston as well.
A site in Roxbury targeted by City Hall for redevelopment - near the Ruggles T Station - was for a time considered by some local real estate executives and city officials to have potential as a stadium site. But City Hall recently awarded that tract of land to a nonprofit looking to build an arts complex.
Kraft family executives a few years ago also examined land at a Boston development site near Chinatown.
“We are still talking with a number of communities,” said Brian Bilello, the Revs’ chief operating officer. “Obviously Somerville is one of those communities.”

thanks for the info. :)

good job for the american soccer fans !

now we just need terracing and roofs over the stands.....

At this rate and with the state of the DC government and the DC United proposal DC United could be the last team in the league with an SSS. :(
I still think we'll beat out New England, though.

Probably will ^. NE has just began talks, and will not have a new stadium probably for minimum another 4-5 years.

Probably will ^. NE has just began talks, and will not have a new stadium probably for minimum another 4-5 years.

Of course, when dealing with the DC government, 4-5 years is considered pretty fast, so it could be a race.

now we just need terracing and roofs over the stands.....

No we don't.

I wanna check out the Home Depot stadium in my next trip to LA probably around fall

No we don't.

yes we do

why?

Toyota Park: Home of the Chicago Fire:

http://chicago.fire.mlsnet.com/chf/imgs/stadium/bridgeview/construction_photos/2006/05_31_06/1.jpg

http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Third_Party_Photo/2006/07/15/1152969735_0184.jpg

After seeing a game in Hamburg, having a terrace full of supporters is definately a cool thing. But that was a Bundesliga game with an HSV crowd of 50,000. Here in the MLS most teams would have half empty terraces at this point. Toronto could put a small terrace in the open end, but I can't think of anywhere else that would really benefit from terracing. As for roofs, high translucent roofs would be beneficial for many stadiums, but they aren't super cheap and not really necessary for most clubs now.

I've heard that Toronto is already looking to expand BMO Field. BMO Field just opened this year, but demand has far outstripped what studies indicated was needed. Toronto FC games are sold out the entire season. It wouldn't surprise me if Toronto FC could sustain a stadium with a capacity of 40,000. At this size, it would be great to be able to watch an Argonauts game there as well.

I can't see standing being embraced particularly fondly in America. Maybe to some extent in the expat communities but even then I doubt it.

Some college basketball teams are starting to add standing areas for the extra hard core students. Which I would like to see more of especially considering many student sections don't sit down during games (even at many mid-major programs sitting down is for half-time and maybe non-conference), and demand at a lot of schools outstrips ticket supply.

I've heard that Toronto is already looking to expand BMO Field. BMO Field just opened this year, but demand has far outstripped what studies indicated was needed. Toronto FC games are sold out the entire season. It wouldn't surprise me if Toronto FC could sustain a stadium with a capacity of 40,000. At this size, it would be great to be able to watch an Argonauts game there as well.

Three reasons why this will never happen:

1. It's called a Soccer-Specific-Stadium for a reason.

2. It is the National Soccer Stadium so CFL or any sport probably won't be allowed.

3. The Canadian Football field is too big to fit in BMO Field.

Choco:

I realize that it is soccer-specific, but does it mean that they will turn down other sports without any consideration? Won't it hinge on how much cash it generates, how little disruption there is to the main tenant, and how many times the facility is being used. I realize that Toronto FC comes first.

You are probably right about the Canadian Football field being too big. It is narrower, but about 15 yards longer than a soccer pitch. You may be right about the likelihood of the Argonauts ever playing there. It's too bad, that team desperately needs a better venue. The oldest gridiron team in the world deserves better.

I can't see standing being embraced particularly fondly in America. Maybe to some extent in the expat communities but even then I doubt it.

At many universities its tradition for students to stand throughout the game.

A significant portion of Toronto FC fans stand. It's only the traditional Canadian sports fan who is more interested in their hot dog than supporting the team, who find standing bizarre. They might as well watch from home as far as I'm concerned.

My eyes glaze over just glancing at them.

Three reasons why this will never happen:

1. It's called a Soccer-Specific-Stadium for a reason.

2. It is the National Soccer Stadium so CFL or any sport probably won't be allowed.

3. The Canadian Football field is too big to fit in BMO Field.

The Canadian national rugby team is going to use it too

Cheeky article about the strong possibility of an expansion team in Seattle.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=451128&cc=5901


It says they will "start out at Qwest field", so maybe that means they would eventually hope for their own soccer specific stadium?

Qwest field:
http://www.hollywoodsportsbook.com/nflstadiums/images/qwestfield3.jpg

I've mentioned it a few times on the Seattle thread that there is also Memorial Stadium in the Seattle Center which is where the Sounders of the old NASL used to play, and where the USL Sounders played briefly until they moved to Qwest field as well. It holds 17,000 people, which wouldn't be bad for a soccer specific stadium, but only has field dimensions for American Football.

Memorial Stadium:
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pictures/north_america/united_states/washington/seattle_memorial.shtml

I can't see standing being embraced particularly fondly in America. Maybe to some extent in the expat communities but even then I doubt it.

Why would you say that? Here in Buffalo we spend more time standing then sitting for Bills games, same goes for many NFL teams. Our old NHL arena had lots of standing room only seats, most college football and basketball stadiums do.

Is it just your own ignorance in assuming Americans are fat and lazy?

Why would you say that? Here in Buffalo we spend more time standing then sitting for Bills games, same goes for many NFL teams. Our old NHL arena had lots of standing room only seats, most college football and basketball stadiums do.

Is it just your own ignorance in assuming Americans are fat and lazy?

While the older teams have fans like that, a lot of NFL teams have made it so their hardcore fans (the ones who see the game as a sporting event and not an entertainment event) can't attend a game anymore by jacking up ticket prices so high. So you do see a lot of the "sitting on hands" attitude at NFL games. Buffalo, Green Bay, Chicago, Cleveland, Pittsburgh and Philadelphia are exceptions.

At college games (in all sports) they do stand for the duration though.

Is it just your own ignorance in assuming Americans are fat and lazy?

I think your response to his comment is abit of a stretch. Besides, Americans are not lazy.

:lol: :runaway:

Why would you say that? Here in Buffalo we spend more time standing then sitting for Bills games, same goes for many NFL teams. Our old NHL arena had lots of standing room only seats, most college football and basketball stadiums do.

Is it just your own ignorance in assuming Americans are fat and lazy?

Yes, it's partly due to the stereotype. Whether you like it or not, all stereotypes are rooted in some essential truth. The chief reason they become inaccurate is when they become dated - when the reality changes but the image remains.

I'd like to think it's more of a considered position than being arrived at by pure ignorance. I wasn't aware of (but I'm not surprised by) the stronger tendency for standing in college sport, but as we can all agree, this is a sector of the sports market where the fans are generally acknowledged to be more vociferous and motivated.

I was also sure that certain sections of the 'mainstream' sports fans (NFL/MLB/NBA) will have their cases which do not conform to the stereotype. You have to ask though if this is proof that my contention is fundamentally wrong as a result of these examples or if they are merely exceptions that prove the rule?

I am grateful to those who have already voiced their opinions that on balance seem to agree that US sport has more than its fair share of under-committed fans. Let's not make this personal, though. The same has been true, although thankfully to a far lesser extent, at my team (Manchester United) for many years - well before the arrival of the Glazers. I am well aware of both the benefits and the dangers of upscaling the team's support.

Also, you have to be careful here in your haste to imply that I am some sort of anti-American - you wouldn't be more wrong.

The point was specifically about the MLS, not wider American sport. While to some extent their two characteristics will overlap, the nature of soccer [sic] as a sport looking to breakthrough into the mainstream means that the teams' evolving identities is more disposed to the 'entertainment' fan. Even after 13 years, teams are only just beginning to acquire a history - something for the 'genuine' fan to feel part of, even proud of. The ever-present need for commercialism (like the transition of the NY/NJ MetroStars to the NY Red Bulls) hardly helps this 'fan' culture but is to be expected in a developing sport in the super-competitive US sports market.

This is precisely why it can be surmised that MLS franchises must get their fans where they can, whatever one thinks of their merits as fans. Of course, it doesn't rule out the possibility of attracting a hardcore fan culture, but I'm just saying that it makes the probability more remote. As many have also said, it also counts that those fans seen as less 'genuine' also tend to be the most profitable. As Al Gore may say, this is an inconvenient truth.

The biggest unknown quantity (to me) is the influence and characteristics of the ex-pat support, where it could be argued that the culture is closer to the hardcore than the corporate type of fan. That's why I felt it was worth mentioning.

I'd love to see the MLS with a large and vibrant fanbase. If that happens, it may be concluded that the sport has finally 'broken through' and this may be what's required for the sport to dislodge one of the three mainstream sports. As most people would agree though, the chances of this happening are very small.

The one thing I would say that on reflection was wrong was a presumption that 'standing' equated to the old-fashioned 'British' terrace model (in which the location of the spectator is/was basically a free-for-all), where I'm sure that where it does happen the the US, it more closely resembles the more organised German model, where positions are identified and notified in the same way that seating locations are. Even so, I wait to be convinced that it is right for the market. Arguably of greater equivalence is the provision of 'beachers' seating.

Of course, you can disagree with this position but please don't accuse me of not having commented without giving the subject any consideration or reasoning.

Im late to this thread, but whats the point of standing during a game?

Personally, I like peace and quiet during a soccer game. Relaxing back in a seat in a half empty section, just watching the action. Not just because I'm too lazy to stand up and scream and wave flags the entire game, it's just the environment that I feel fits the game here. Not a knock on the sport in any way.

The MLS is not some superpower Euro league. Until it is, and can compete with the world, I don't think it makes sense for fans to try and imitate the rowdy crowds of other places. Not to say that no one should cheer and be festive, but I don't want stadiums built arround terracing and the idea of going crazy.

I think these rowdy types would get annoying. I am spending good money to go to a game. I dont feel like having to stand up and scream endlessly because some loud punk kids in front of me are doing it all game.

I also like to sit in the nosebleeds during a baseball game. Less cramped and more relaxing.

Then just go sit with the soccermoms if you want to sleep in your chair.

There are ultras everywhere. The entire stadium doesn't have to get up, but if you're a a fan, want to have fun, and get involved, then get up sing jump and wave your scarves, so on. It's part of the whole ambiance, the atmosphere you need to create to make that stadium your own and mark your territory.
There is nothing more shameful than having the visiting fans sing louder than the home fans. The fans in Boston this weekend at the Revs game should be ashamed of themselves, it's exactly when the teams are so boring that you need the fans to pick it up and stir things up. They failed miserably.
Some idiots enjoy going a bit further and fight with the visiting sector, but who cares about them

Again, it all depends on where you are sitting. They tend to congregate in the corner sections, the quietest places are the lateral sections

Then just go sit with the soccermoms if you want to sleep in your chair.

There are ultras everywhere. The entire stadium doesn't have to get up, but if you're a a fan, want to have fun, and get involved, then get up sing jump and wave your scarves, so on. It's part of the whole ambiance, the atmosphere you need to create to make that stadium your own and mark your territory.
There is nothing more shameful than having the visiting fans sing louder than the home fans. The fans in Boston this weekend at the Revs game should be ashamed of themselves, it's exactly when the teams are so boring that you need the fans to pick it up and stir things up. They failed miserably.
Some idiots enjoy going a bit further and fight with the visiting sector, but who cares about them

Again, it all depends on where you are sitting. They tend to congregate in the corner sections, the quietest places are the lateral sections


Bah, its a waste of energy. Its amusing to see people sitting around waving flags when nothing is happening though. I tend to just want to watch the game then make a spectacle.

Good article from The Washington Post on the subject.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/14/AR2007081401343.html?hpid=topnews
:banana: :cheers: :scouserd: :applause: :carrot: :rock: :righton: :drunk: :dizzy:

Good article from The Washington Post on the subject.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/14/AR2007081401343.html?hpid=topnews
:banana: :cheers: :scouserd: :applause: :carrot: :rock: :righton: :drunk: :dizzy:

Awesome. Almost made me cry, that's what America is all about right there.

I've heard that Toronto is already looking to expand BMO Field. BMO Field just opened this year, but demand has far outstripped what studies indicated was needed. Toronto FC games are sold out the entire season. It wouldn't surprise me if Toronto FC could sustain a stadium with a capacity of 40,000. At this size, it would be great to be able to watch an Argonauts game there as well.

:ohno: if u watched the game between toronto and New York Red Bulls, then you'd understand y we can NEVER allow a football team to use the same stadium as a soccer team...

expanding BMO field would be awesome, a capacity of 40,000 would mean an even better atmosphere 4 intimidating the other teams :laugh:

Toronto's very own San Siro :laugh: :banana:

http://msn.foxsports.com/id/7134744_7_1.jpg

The Beckham effect

Fans watch as the Los Angeles Galaxy take on the New York Red Bulls at Giants Stadium. An MLS record crowd of 66,237 showed up to watch the match.

that was a mistake, the MLS record is here in LA, where we have had a few crowds over 75,000. that was for a MLS stand ALone game for the Red Bulls.

But it was probably a record for the eastern division of MLS

oh for sure. it was a great crowd too. that was a fun game, to bad the Galaxy Defense / Goaltending is so horrible.

oh for sure. it was a great crowd too. that was a fun game, to bad the Galaxy Defense / Goaltending is so horrible.
You can't blame Cannon.

Wattereus sucks, but Cannon did the best he could. His new look though sucks, he looks like a complete redneck

ya, big time. he did have many spectacular stops, so my comment was more towards the D.

Here you go
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_menu/past_future/pictures/future_stadiums/kansas_city_wizards.jpg

KCW are still looking for the right location though

And here is the updated DC united stadium
http://www.bobbyboswell.com/wp-content/uploads/_w-hotel_nsm.jpg

and finally the new Real Salt Lake stadium: Under construction
http://www.iconvenue.com/global/images/popups/sandy_stadium_7_popup.jpg

These are friggin' awesome!

any updates?

anything at all?

There's a webcam for the Red Bulls stadium, but there's nothing interesting to see yet.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/soccer/2004005776_mls10.html

Could start play as soon as the '09 season. Official announcement will be made this Tuesday. Great for the sports fans in the city after the continuing fiasco with the Sonics. They will "start out" playing at Qwest Field. Is that cheeky talk for planning a SSS at some point down the road?

they may be stuck at QWest for a long time as they new team owners i think own the stadium and the nfl team ? rent free.....

There's been talk in Portland about kicking the Beavers out of the very-cool PGE Park so that the dimensions can be permanently altered to eventually seek out an MLS team. They're at the second teir right now.

http://blog.roodo.com/paul_sun/3cb9c60d.jpg

http://www.taktrack.net/get/393/

The capacity is just under 20,000 right now.

I hope that happens for Portland. They have better fans than many MLS clubs.

I hope that happens for Portland. They have better fans than many MLS clubs.


True. The Timbers Army of Portland are better than most MLS supporters clubs.

Vancouver

Seats 15,000, expandable to 30,000 in the future through the addition of tiers.
http://www.whitecapsfc.com/files/Images/Stadium/renderings/renderingsouth.jpg

http://www.whitecapsfc.com/files/Images/Stadium/renderings/footprint.jpg

http://www.whitecapsfc.com/files/Images/Stadium/renderings/northview.jpg

http://www.whitecapsfc.com/files/Images/Stadium/renderings/concertview.jpg

I'm especially impressed with the real salt lake stadium. Does anyone know who the architect is??

Rossetti Architects, They also did the HDC in LA, Toyota Park in Chicago and are the designers of Red Bull Park as well.

hope all the new MLS stadiums don't all look the same.........

hope all the new MLS stadiums don't all look the same.........

Yeah, there's definitely a common trend here. But that's the thing with soccer stadiums, there isn't a whole lot you can do with them, especially around that capacity.

There is sooo much you can do. Just look at the KC proposal. look at the roughly 20,000 seaters being built in England, or Scandanavia, or France or elsewhere. 15,000 seats is definitely enough to be creative, its up to the designers to be creative with the given parameters Becuase Rossetti (Like HOK has done with ballparks) essentially uses a template seating bowl that doesn't change much theirs feel much the same. Red Bull park will be a notable exception, and one that I am looking forward to.These would be in the range of the MLS facilities, and are very different from anything in the league right now.

Boras Arena 17,500
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/71/Boras_arena_17april_2005.jpg

KC Stadium 24,500
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/KC_South_Stand.JPG

Viking Stadion 16,600
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ad/Btd_viking_stadion_lr.jpg

a lot can be done, but all AEG stadiums have to have a concert stage. that sucks.

Word

Don Garber ( commissioner of the MLS ) said that Wilpon can build a soccer stadium in Queens, near Shea Stadium.
I hope that Wilpon will put a true New York soccer team ( New York City Football Club for example ) in MLS 2010 and will build a 30.000/35.000 stadium in Queens for 2011.
What is your opinion ?

Don Garber ( commissioner of the MLS ) said that Wilpon can build a soccer stadium in Queens, near Shea Stadium.
I hope that Wilpon will put a true New York soccer team ( New York City Football Club for example ) in MLS 2010 and will build a 30.000/35.000 stadium in Queens for 2011.
What is your opinion ?

I think that would be a great idea, it's where they should have built the Jets/Giants stadium anyway. Imagine that area with not only the Mets new ballpark, the USTC, a new football stadium, and a new soccer stadium! What a mecca for sport that would have been.

Here is a link to some photos for Real Salt Lake's new stadium, it's starting to take shape nicely...

http://www.rslstadium.com/construction.html

Here is a link to some photos for Real Salt Lake's new stadium, it's starting to take shape nicely...

http://www.rslstadium.com/construction.html

good stuff

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/soccer/2004005776_mls10.html

Could start play as soon as the '09 season. Official announcement will be made this Tuesday. Great for the sports fans in the city after the continuing fiasco with the Sonics. They will "start out" playing at Qwest Field. Is that cheeky talk for planning a SSS at some point down the road?

So on further research, it seems the new Seattle franchise will be sticking with Qwest field for quite a while (since part of the justification for building Qwest feild in the first place was that it could house an MLS team). The setup will be to block off all the upper deck seats and only sell tickets in the lower bowl (24,500 seats). I don't know how they plan to block off the upper seats. Just covering them with a tarp would be lame. It would be cool if they hung a huge curtain from the upper rafters that said "sounders" (or whatever the new team name is) on it or something like that.

The new Seattle franchise has sold 6.500 season tickets in 3 days !!!!!

The new Seattle franchise has sold 6.500 season tickets in 3 days !!!!!

not bad. But they need to get over 10k in season tickets to be viable.

not bad. But they need to get over 10k in season tickets to be viable.

Well, without really knowing anything about the team I am sure the will surpass 10k till 2009 if they have sold 6500 in 3 days.

Seats3d has Qwest field's soccer configuration listed as "coming soon"

It is so funny, now the MLS is expanding, i dont know why because, soccer is no that popular in the u.s and the level of the league is so bad.
Some mexican soccer teams have expressed their interest in opening frenchises in the MLS, like chivas has done with chivas usa. America and Pachuca are interested in opening franchises.

It is so funny, now the MLS is expanding, i dont know why because, soccer is no that popular in the u.s and the level of the league is so bad.
Some mexican soccer teams have expressed their interest in opening frenchises in the MLS, like chivas has done with chivas usa. America and Pachuca are interested in opening franchises.

The sport is growing, and the level of play is about that of the Mexican league, and will soon pass it. Gratnted, the Mexican league is pathetic, but soon it will be more pathetic than the MLS.

^^ Mexican League is definitely not pathetic.

2009 :Seattle and Philly ( probably )
2010 :probably St Louis and New York City

GO MLS !!!

The sport is growing, and the level of play is about that of the Mexican league, and will soon pass it. Gratnted, the Mexican league is pathetic, but soon it will be more pathetic than the MLS.

What planet are you on? Just cuz David Beckham plays in the MLS doesn't mean your league is better than the Mexican league :lol:.

He isn't saying that, he is making a rather optimistic (but not unthinkable forecast). To be honest the fact that the MLS has lasted this long has proved its not a fad, it won't ever replace the big three (and probably not hockey either) but it won't go away, as much as the right-wing americans who fear that soccer threatens the constitution and will cause them to become less xenophobic and homophobic, would like it to.

The sport is growing, and the level of play is about that of the Mexican league, and will soon pass it. Gratnted, the Mexican league is pathetic, but soon it will be more pathetic than the MLS.

HAHAHA!

First of all, when an mls team is accepted in the copa libertadores, then it will have the level of an iportant league, but that will never happen if they keep showing that poor level that they showed in the copa sudamericana.
The mexican league is considered in the top 10 best soccer league in the world and with the argentine and the brazilian the best of the continent.
Its ridicolus to compare the level of the nexican league with the mls.

HAHAHA!

First of all, when an mls team is accepted in the copa libertadores, then it will have the level of an iportant league, but that will never happen if they keep showing that poor level that they showed in the copa sudamericana.
The mexican league is considered in the top 10 best soccer league in the world and with the argentine and the brazilian the best of the continent.
Its ridicolus to compare the level of the nexican league with the mls.

LOL, ridiculous? like your opinion means anything when you are completely ignorant of what goes on in your own league, this year there was a tournament between MLS, and the Primera Division, it was called SuperLiga, and the competition was very close, so going by your logic, the quality of play in the MLS has risen to the level of one of the top leagues in the world! That's awesome!

So not only is uor national team worse than ours, your top league soon will be too.

He isn't saying that, he is making a rather optimistic (but not unthinkable forecast). To be honest the fact that the MLS has lasted this long has proved its not a fad, it won't ever replace the big three (and probably not hockey either) but it won't go away, as much as the right-wing americans who fear that soccer threatens the constitution and will cause them to become less xenophobic and homophobic, would like it to.

They estimate that upwards to 20 million Americans play soccer. I dont get that last part though. The "right wing" suburbanities send their kids to soccer camps in droves.

And its a matter of time before the U.S. gets very good at the game. We might not have as popular of a leauge as the Mexicans. But we do have a national team that owns the Mexican equivalent! Best team in North America in my opinion. One of the best in the America's, behind Brazil, Argentina, and Columbia.

What planet are you on? Just cuz David Beckham plays in the MLS doesn't mean your league is better than the Mexican league :lol:.

Oh look, another internet moron. I'm going by what I saw with my own eyes, on this planet, when the two leagues played each other.

^^ Mexican League is definitely not pathetic.

And neither is the MLS, I was merely returning his ignorant insult.

The MLS will get better and become more of a prominent league as time goes by. You cant expect such a young and new league to be one of the best in the world.

Oh, if anyone is interested. MLS attendance, compared to European soccer attendances. 2005-2006


German Bundesliga – 40,745
England Premiership – 33,864
Span La Liga – 29,029
Italy Serie A – 21,698
France Ligue 1 – 21,576
Dutch Eredivisie – 16,805
Scotland Premier League – 16,147
MLS - 15,108
Portugal Superliga – 10,600
Sweden – 9,760
Denmark – 7,957
Poland – 6,833
Greece Ethniki A – 5,627
Ireland Premier – 1,393

^^ I think that's a bit out of context.

There isn't much difference between The Netherlands (16.805) and the MLS (15.108), but the total population here is about 16 million people. So that's not even one team per 1 million people, while in the States there are about 300 million people and there are only 13 (next season 14) teams.

Of course, but nevertheless considering it is the fifth league in America (not including highly popular college sports), that's a pretty impressive total, for a sport that they thought would never make inroads at all to America.

ther is no competition level in the mls because they dont play for anything.
The mls level will stay like that.
The mls is only a local tournament and has no team that has acomplished something important like chivas or boca juniros or river plate or america.

^^ I think that's a bit out of context.

There isn't much difference between The Netherlands (16.805) and the MLS (15.108), but the total population here is about 16 million people. So that's not even one team per 1 million people, while in the States there are about 300 million people and there are only 13 (next season 14) teams.

So to be impressive to you would the U.S. have to average 164k/game compared to say UK to be a good league since the U.S. is approximately five times larger? :shocked:

Some of those top leagues in Europe must have some really small attendance's though near the bottom compared to the icon teams.

ther is no competition level in the mls because they dont play for anything.
The mls level will stay like that.
The mls is only a local tournament and has no team that has acomplished something important like chivas or boca juniros or river plate or america.

Honestly, I stil l don't think it would matter nill for most American sports fans even if an MLS team had the ultimate glory and winnings as those world powerhouses listed :hahano:

American sports fans would want to compete with the R Madrids, Arsenals, Bayern Munichs, and Man U's and then only then would their be aknowledgement and a feeling that soccer has arrived and make people take notice.

I think that's a bit out of context.

There isn't much difference between The Netherlands (16.805) and the MLS (15.108), but the total population here is about 16 million people. So that's not even one team per 1 million people, while in the States there are about 300 million people and there are only 13 (next season 14) teams.

Drawing those kinds of averages is pretty good in my opinion for a country that supposedly does not like the game, am I right? The MLS is not really that wide of a league either. Its new and there are few major stars. This is unlike the Netherlands, which loves the game, and has more of a history with the game.

Honestly, I stil l don't think it would matter nill for most American sports fans even if an MLS team had the ultimate glory and winnings as those world powerhouses listed :hahano:

American sports fans would want to compete with the R Madrids, Arsenals, Bayern Munichs, and Man U's and then only then would their be aknowledgement and a feeling that soccer has arrived and make people take notice.

I think that last part is especially true. As an on the fence soccer fan (I follow the World Cup and Pan-American tournaments), I would be much more into the game if we could knock off a couple of star studded European teams or maybe some from Brazil/Mexico.

As the game becomes more of a spectator sport here (it will never match the NFL/NCAA though) the league will start attracting more big name players from around the world.

That wasn't really my point, but you stated that this proved the success of the MLS, because there are high attendances. But looking at the total number of people in the US, you should expect more people to attend games. If you have big cities like NYC or LA and you only get 15-20.000 people in the stadium, then I think there is still a lot of room for improvement, even if it's only the 5th or 6th sport in the US. The country is big enough to have many big sports.

I'm not trying to say the MLS is crap, because in my opinion it isn't. But in a country that big with that many big cities, you would expect more people going to see a game. Just look at the 1994 WC. If I remember correctly, that tournament broke all the records of people going to the stadium. And that was even before the MLS started. I think that comparing the attendances to the other sport would be better (NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL).

That wasn't really my point, but you stated that this proved the success of the MLS, because there are high attendances. But looking at the total number of people in the US, you should expect more people to attend games. If you have big cities like NYC or LA and you only get 15-20.000 people in the stadium, then I think there is still a lot of room for improvement, even if it's only the 5th or 6th sport in the US. The country is big enough to have many big sports.

I'm not trying to say the MLS is crap, because in my opinion it isn't. But in a country that big with that many big cities, you would expect more people going to see a game. Just look at the 1994 WC. If I remember correctly, that tournament broke all the records of people going to the stadium. And that was even before the MLS started. I think that comparing the attendances to the other sport would be better (NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL).

I think those attendances are proving that the MLS/soccer is doing ok. Just because the U.S. has 300 million people, doesnt necessarily mean you will have higher attendances. Look at Russia. Their top league draws less per game then does the MLS. The Brazilian main leauge also draws less then the MLS does over average. I know these leagues have like a hundred more games, but they also are more 'soccer mad' then the U.S. is! The MLS season runs from April to mid-November. In that time, you have it competing with the entireity of the Major Leauge Baseball season (2,450 games a year), partially the NBA regular season (and its looooong playoffs that run to June), partially the NHL season, almost all of the NCAA Football regular season, and a large part of the NFL season.

relax. MLS is doing fine. What's the latest on the MLS stadiums?

The MLS is truely growing !!
The last average attendance has been 16.700 in the regular season and almost 18.000 in the play-off. In 2009 there will be Seattle ( has already sold 8.000 season tickets in 10 days !! ) and probably Philadelphia and in 2010 St Louis and probably NEW YORK CITY ( stadium in Queens ).
I am sure that in 2010 MLS season the average attendance will be more than 20.000

Dont forget about the Toronto FC, which sold out season tickets next year.

Dont forget about the Toronto FC, which sold out season tickets next year.

Fucken right!

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1073/1031816622_9489347ec3.jpg?v=0

Great Toronto FC fans : all sold the 16.000 season tickets !!!

What planet are you on? Just cuz David Beckham plays in the MLS doesn't mean your league is better than the Mexican league :lol:.

Read what you quoted. He didn't say it was better. He said it was of a similar level.

Looks like a great little league over in America.

Probably now they just got to get the quality on the field right and it will become a great success.

No doubt the USA will someday win the ultimate prize.

Quality would improve drastically if they merged CONMEBOL and CONCACAF. You get the feeling that with 3.5 automatic slots for North American sides for the World Cup they are quite comfortable with the status quo and this protects the North American sides from the South American masters.

Initially you will get pain, but ultimately you would get much, much better.
I've been advocating this for years. Now that Australia joined the Asian confederation, you might as well merge the rest of Oceania in with Asia, then combine N and S America. That way, you'd have 4 confederations with roughly the same # of nations (about 50).

Is there any evidence that the MLS want to make a second New York team though?

Oh look, another internet moron. I'm going by what I saw with my own eyes, on this planet, when the two leagues played each other.

Dude, you were the one calling the Mexican league pathetic without reason.

The MLS will get better and become more of a prominent league as time goes by. You cant expect such a young and new league to be one of the best in the world.

Oh, if anyone is interested. MLS attendance, compared to European soccer attendances. 2005-2006


German Bundesliga – 40,745
England Premiership – 33,864
Span La Liga – 29,029
Italy Serie A – 21,698
France Ligue 1 – 21,576
Dutch Eredivisie – 16,805
Scotland Premier League – 16,147
MLS - 15,108
Portugal Superliga – 10,600
Sweden – 9,760
Denmark – 7,957
Poland – 6,833
Greece Ethniki A – 5,627
Ireland Premier – 1,393Allow me to update your list and make it a bit more complete:

2006-2007:
1 Germany 39957
2 England 34363
3 Spain 28838
4 France 21816
5 Italy 18473
6 Netherlands 18078
7 Scotland 16194
(MLS 15898 (after 21 weeks))
8 Russia 11890
9 Portugal 10636
10 Belgium 10533

You can find the full table here: http://www.fussballtempel.net/uefa/zuschauerschnitt2006-2007verbaende.html

(personal note: I think my country is doing relatively well here, considering the poor international performances and stadium infrastructure compared to the other leagues in this top-10. And it looks like the average will be even higher this season)

All things considered, this is a good performance for the MLS. Let's not start "number-fetishing", Americans don't make judgements about European baseball attendances for example either, and with good reason.

Allow me to update your list and make it a bit more complete:

2006-2007:
1 Germany 39957
2 England 34363
3 Spain 28838
4 France 21816
5 Italy 18473
6 Netherlands 18078
7 Scotland 16194
(MLS 15898 (after 21 weeks))
8 Russia 11890
9 Portugal 10636
10 Belgium 10533

You can find the full table here: http://www.fussballtempel.net/uefa/zuschauerschnitt2006-2007verbaende.html

(personal note: I think my country is doing relatively well here, considering the poor international performances and stadium infrastructure compared to the other leagues in this top-10. And it looks like the average will be even higher this season)

All things considered, this is a good performance for the MLS. Let's not start "number-fetishing", Americans don't make judgements about European baseball attendances for example either, and with good reason.

Australia's A-League attendence is right up there as well with an average attendence of 13,874 so far this season. Considering it's only the 3rd A-League season, it's quite a success!

Allow me to update your list and make it a bit more complete:

2006-2007:
1 Germany 39957
2 England 34363
3 Spain 28838
4 France 21816
5 Italy 18473
6 Netherlands 18078
7 Scotland 16194
(MLS 15898 (after 21 weeks))
8 Russia 11890
9 Portugal 10636
10 Belgium 10533

You can find the full table here: http://www.fussballtempel.net/uefa/zuschauerschnitt2006-2007verbaende.html


More up-to-date information: according to this reliable webpage http://european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn.htm currently 16 European football leagues with a total number of appr. 250 teams have average attendances above 10’000:

Germany 39’100
England 36’000
Spain 31’100
Italy 22’700
France 21’600
Netherlands 18’300
Germany 2nd Division 18’000
England 2nd Division 16’400
Scotland 15’400
Turkey 14'000 (last season)
Russia 13’500
Portugal 11’500
Belgium 11'300
Switzerland 11’100
Norway 10’500
Sweden 10’300

Allow me to update your list and make it a bit more complete:

2006-2007:
1 Germany 39957
2 England 34363
3 Spain 28838
4 France 21816
5 Italy 18473
6 Netherlands 18078
7 Scotland 16194
(MLS 15898 (after 21 weeks))
8 Russia 11890
9 Portugal 10636
10 Belgium 10533

You can find the full table here: http://www.fussballtempel.net/uefa/zuschauerschnitt2006-2007verbaende.html

(personal note: I think my country is doing relatively well here, considering the poor international performances and stadium infrastructure compared to the other leagues in this top-10. And it looks like the average will be even higher this season)

All things considered, this is a good performance for the MLS. Let's not start "number-fetishing", Americans don't make judgements about European baseball attendances for example either, and with good reason.

Well, I think its a figure that is a positive sign for the future of soccer/football in the U.S./Canada. It will never catch up to the popularity of the NFL/NCAA or anything, but drawing European attendances is not out of the question. Especially in some markets like L.A (the Galaxy average 25,000 a game), New York (which doesnt actually have a team in the city), Toronto, D.C., Houston, etc. While the MLS plays far fewer games then the NBA/NHL, its attendance figures are comparable per game.

Is there any evidence that the MLS want to make a second New York team though?

These are the sites the MLS commissioner listed as priority sites for future teams. The next two teams to enter the MLS are Seattle and most likely St. Louis.

Atlanta, Las Vegas, Miami, Montreal, a second team in New York in Queens, NY, Philadelphia, Portland, St. Louis and Vancouver.

Aren't Scotland, Portugal and Netherlands attendances carried by two or three super clubs each? Where do these crowds rank aside from Celtic, Rangers, Porto, Benfica, Sporting, Ajax, Feyenoord and PSV? Maybe I'm wrong on the Eredivisie, but I know that MLS (other than the few "Beckham Games") is fairly balanced.

Aren't Scotland, Portugal and Netherlands attendances carried by two or three super clubs each? Where do these crowds rank aside from Celtic, Rangers, Porto, Benfica, Sporting, Ajax, Feyenoord and PSV? Maybe I'm wrong on the Eredivisie, but I know that MLS (other than the few "Beckham Games") is fairly balanced.

Regarding the Dutch Eredivisie, it's not like other teams have real low attendences, there's quite a gradual decrease as teams get smaller:

http://www.nrc.nl/multimedia/archive/00173/Nieuwe_stadions_lo_173340a.jpeg

Aren't Scotland, Portugal and Netherlands attendances carried by two or three super clubs each? Where do these crowds rank aside from Celtic, Rangers, Porto, Benfica, Sporting, Ajax, Feyenoord and PSV? Maybe I'm wrong on the Eredivisie, but I know that MLS (other than the few "Beckham Games") is fairly balanced.

Attendances last season (06/07):

Average - Comparison to last year - Highest

Netherlands:
1 Ajax 48.610 2,8% 50.649
2 Feyenoord 40.912 2,7% 46.000
3 PSV 33.656 1,7% 35.100
4 SC Heerenveen 25.471 24,5% 26.000
5 Vitesse 20.179 3,5% 24.250
6 FC Utrecht 20.005 2,3% 24.000
7 FC Groningen 19.182 23,0% 19.880
8 AZ Alkmaar 15.980 89,6% 17.000
9 NAC Breda 14.876 2,4% 16.580
10 Roda JC 14.399 10,7% 18.000
11 FC Twente 13.163 0,5% 13.250
12 Willem II 12.527 3,3% 14.700
13 NEC 12.015 1,0% 12.500
14 Sparta Rotterdam 9.950 11,1% 10.800
15 SC Heracles Almelo 8.419 1,1% 8.630
16 ADO Den Haag 7.001 2,8% 8.814
17 RKC Waalwijk 5.841 2,6% 7.200
18 SBV Excelsior 3.212 61,4% 3.654
Total 18.078 7,6% 50.649

Scotland

1 Celtic 57.928 - 0,4% 59.659
2 Rangers 49.955 1,4% 50.488
3 Heart of Midlothian 16.937 1,0% 17.369
4 Hibernian 14.587 7,5% 16.747
5 Aberdeen 12.475 - 2,0% 20.045
6 Kilmarnock 7.564 7,0% 13.623
7 Dundee United 7.147 -12,8% 12.329
8 Dunfermline Athletic 6.106 - 1,5% 8.561
9 Motherwell 5.877 - 6,0% 11.745
10 Saint Mirren 5.609 47,7% 10.251
11 Falkirk 5.387 - 2,3% 7.245
12 Inverness CT 4.879 - 3,6% 7.522
Total 16.194 0,1% 59.659

Portugal

1 SL Benfica 39.010 - 9,4% 62.756
2 FC do Porto 38.781 0,3% 50.428
3 Sporting CP 33.285 5,2% 44.042
4 SC de Braga 12.229 5,9% 29.931
5 A Académica de Coimbra 8.751 -11,3% 19.464
6 SC de Beira Mar 6.643 NEW 29.547
7 Boavista FC 4.703 0,2% 17.500
8 CS Marítimo 4.167 - 3,6% 10.000
9 CF Os Belenenses 4.007 -25,3% 10.000
10 Vitória FC Setúbal 3.427 -10,7% 6.372
11 FC Paços de Ferreira 3.267 6,2% 8.000
12 CD das Aves 3.113 NEW 7.000
13 UD de Leira 2.763 -15,1% 11.433
14 CF Estrela da Amadora 2.154 15,5% 7.650
15 A Naval 1º Maio 1.963 - 6,6% 5.000
16 CD Nacional Madeira 1.920 - 0,8% 3.000
Total 10.636 0,3% 62.756

Just saw the 'mighty MLS team Galaxy' play Sydney. 5 - 3, Beckham scored an unbelievable goal. You would think he was an Aussie!

Beckham was very gracious in the absolute flogging they received.

Unfortunately the American outfit is not really in the same league, as the A-League, literally.

Just saw the 'mighty MLS team Galaxy' play Sydney. 5 - 3, Beckham scored an unbelievable goal. You would think he was an Aussie!

Beckham was very gracious in the absolute flogging they received.

Unfortunately the American outfit is not really in the same league, as the A-League, literally.

Way to go Sydney! Great to see that the A-League is at the same level or even better as the MLS after just 3 seasons! What was the attendence?

Just saw the 'mighty MLS team Galaxy' play Sydney. 5 - 3, Beckham scored an unbelievable goal. You would think he was an Aussie!

Beckham was very gracious in the absolute flogging they received.

Unfortunately the American outfit is not really in the same league, as the A-League, literally.

The La MLS team is not fit to play in the MLS either. If the Sydney team played Houston Dyanmo, it would be a very different game.

Yeah. The Galaxy might be prestigious, but they weren't very good this year.

They got 83,000 to Homebush. Biggest attendance for an A-League club, even though it was only a friendly.

It was the most entertaining match of the season really. Little or no defense and loads of end to end play.

Well done both teams.

Just saw the 'mighty MLS team Galaxy' play Sydney. 5 - 3, Beckham scored an unbelievable goal. You would think he was an Aussie!

Beckham was very gracious in the absolute flogging they received.

Unfortunately the American outfit is not really in the same league, as the A-League, literally.

They got beat 1-0 in the Open Cup by Richmond, a semi-pro team. LA had one shot on goal, Richmond also hit the bar and the post.

That 'gent' Harmes is a dirty player. You wouldn't get his style in Mexican wrestling.

Just saw the 'mighty MLS team Galaxy' play Sydney. 5 - 3, Beckham scored an unbelievable goal. You would think he was an Aussie!

Beckham was very gracious in the absolute flogging they received.

Unfortunately the American outfit is not really in the same league, as the A-League, literally.

I dont know about that. L.A. is not a good team. Its like sending over the Kansas City Royals or Pittsburgh Pirates to play a single game against a Japanese club.

They play too many long shots on goal, very low percentage.

Recruiting Beckham may be better for shirt sales, but they should have gotten Ronaldinho or Messi.

That would transform the team.

Donovan is too small. He gets tossed around like a rag doll.

Beckham was all about the glitz and glamour. He sells a ton of merchandise I would imagine.

They play too many long shots on goal, very low percentage.

Recruiting Beckham may be better for shirt sales, but they should have gotten Ronaldinho or Messi.

That would transform the team.

Donovan is too small. He gets tossed around like a rag doll.

Donovan is too small and Messi is a giant? :lol:

I think your trying to say he doesn't stay on the ball well (gets pushed too easily).

they should have gotten Ronaldinho or Messi.
Yeah, I'm sure both were available and AEG passed...

Great news!
Harrison NJ MLS stadium has been redesigned for the 8th time!

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2007/11/construction_to_begin_on_red_b.html

Well it is certainly the best design they have come up with, I have to say it looks really good.

Well it is certainly the best design they have come up with, I have to say it looks really good.

The MLS just sighned on to a Tournament called Pan-Pacific Championship to be held in HAWAII!

and guess what MLS team was 1st invited to Participate.....

THE LOS ANGELES GALAXY......!!!!:banana:

and i had to represent by getting the new jersey!!
http://www.mlsnet.com/t106/imgs/ads/2007/120x240/beckham_jersey.jpg

But i still wear my Vintage Jersey!!!
http://www.mlsgear.com/imgs/products/369_1004836.jpg







ARTICLE

11/29/2007 11:58AM
International tourney to debut Feb. '08 in Hawaii
New Pan-Pacific Championship to feature top teams from MLS, J.League and Hyundai A-League
SUM Communications

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HONOLULU, HI - Major League Soccer (USA), the J.League (Japan) and the Hyundai A-League (Australia) today announced an unprecedented and innovative partnership in the creation of a new international soccer tournament to be hosted in Honolulu, Hawaii: the Pan-Pacific Championship (PPC), which will crown the top club from the Asian and North American soccer confederations. The inaugural edition of the competition will be held on February 20 and 23, 2008 at Aloha Stadium and will feature four clubs competing in a semifinals doubleheader followed by a doubleheader to determine the third-place finisher and the Pan-Pacific Champion. Representatives from Major League Soccer (MLS), Japan's J.League and Australia's Hyundai A-League gathered in Honolulu, Hawaii to unveil details of the new tournament.
The four teams to participate in the 2008 tournament are: reigning MLS Cup champion Houston Dynamo and Haleiwa, Hawaii native Brian Ching; the Yamazaki Nabisco Cup Champion Gamba Osaka, with 19-year-old Japanese sensation Michihiro Yasuda and J.League star Yasuhito Endo; the 2007 SuperLiga finalists Los Angeles Galaxy, whose international roster includes English superstar David Beckham and perennial MLS all-star Landon Donovan; and a club to qualify from the Hyundai A-League Final Series, which concludes in February 2008 ahead of the Pan-Pacific Championship.

"This tournament will unite four terrific clubs from across the region to crown a true Pan-Pacific champion," said Doug Quinn, president of Soccer United Marketing, organizers of the event. "Honolulu was selected as the host not only for its geographical location in the center of the Pan-Pacific, but also for its community, its terrific infrastructure and its history of hosting top international sporting events. We will work closely with the local community to stage a world-class soccer tournament that will include festivities throughout the week."

The tournament will kick off with a semifinal doubleheader on Wednesday, February 20, with the Los Angeles Galaxy taking on Gamba Osaka in the opener, followed by the match between the Houston Dynamo and the A-League representative. The two winners will battle for the Pan-Pacific Championship on Saturday, February 23, preceded by the third-place match.

"The Pan-Pacific Championship is a great opportunity for MLS teams to compete against elite clubs from Japan and Australia and we are pleased to be partnering with the J.League and A-League to introduce this new exciting competition," said MLS Commissioner Don Garber. "The event will provide the participating teams with high level competition, while enhancing each league's exposure throughout the world."

Tickets for the Pan-Pacific Championship will go on sale in December, and further details will be shared as they become available. Fans are encouraged to visit the tournament's official website, www.PPChampionship.net, for further information.

"What a great pleasure it is that the winners of the 2007 J.League Yamazaki Nabisco Cup, Gamba Osaka, now have this opportunity to play against such strong opponents from MLS and the A-League at the Pan-Pacific Championship," said J. League Chairman Kenji Onitake. "I sincerely hope that these Pan-Pacific games will promote still more exchange through football all around the Pacific."

"The Pan-Pacific Championships is a new high-quality competition in which Football Federation Australia is proud to participate," said Football Federation Australia CEO, Ben Buckley. "Partnering with clubs from the internationally respected and sophisticated competitions such as the MLS and J-League validates the massive advances that the Hyundai A-League and football in Australia has made over the past three years.

Pan-Pacific Championship 2008 - Calendar
(All times local)

Wednesday, February 20
Gamba Osaka (J.League) vs. Los Angeles Galaxy (MLS) (6:00 p.m.)
Houston Dynamo (MLS) vs. A-League representative (8:30 p.m.)

Saturday, February 23
Third-place match (6:00 p.m.)
Pan-Pacific Championship Final (8:30 p.m.)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Dunno, what is the point exactly? Maybe if the competition was Copa Libertadores, then there would be a point to going to a Pan-Pacific event.

We already play J League teams in the Asian Champions League.

Get all the Latin American nations involved and that would be interesting.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Dunno, what is the point exactly? Maybe if the competition was Copa Libertadores, then there would be a point to going to a Pan-Pacific event.

We already play J League teams in the Asian Champions League.

Get all the Latin American nations involved and that would be interesting.
It's more exhibition money-making bullshit. The tournament is worthless.

Get all the Latin American nations involved and that would be interesting.As far as I know the plan is to also involve a Mexican team in the years to come.

As far as I know the plan is to also involve a Mexican team in the years to come.

That wouldn't be fair though, the Mexican team would take the championship easily, just like the CONCACAF Champions Cup (if they cared to win it).

Great news!
Harrison NJ MLS stadium has been redesigned for the 8th time!

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2007/11/construction_to_begin_on_red_b.html


Nice Design, will surely be a good venue.

I´m not an architecture expert, but it really looks a lot like the new EURO 2008 Stadium in Klagenfurt, Austria:

http://wwwu.edu.uni-klu.ac.at/spismest/pics/stadion.jpg

http://www.sf.tv/piccache/webtool/data/pics/spak/spak_euro_klagenfurg_szq_w281_h_m.jpg

And here are more pics and a video. If it will look like this, NY red bulss will have a nice homeground.
http://immeramball.weblife.at/tags/publicText/klagenfurt/

Didn´t want to hijack the thread with pics and info on other stadiums, just want to show the smiliarities between the two designs.

Colorado Rapids / Dick's Sporting Goods Park
http://www.coloradorapids.com/images/news/headline/StadiumLightTest.jpg

Chicago Fire / Toyota Park
http://chicago.fire.mlsnet.com/t100/imgs/stadium/2008/main.jpg

LA Galaxy / Chivas USA / Home Depot Center
http://msn.foxsports.com/id/6044842_7_3.jpg

Columbus Crew / Crew Stadium
http://columbus.crew.mlsnet.com/t102/imgs/stadium/stadium.jpg

DC United / RFK Stadium
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0c/RFK_Stadium_aerial_photo,_1988.JPEG/800px-RFK_Stadium_aerial_photo,_1988.JPEG

Future Stadium for DC United, probably the best American Soccer Stadium design yet!
http://www.bobbyboswell.com/wp-content/uploads/_w-hotel_nsm.jpg

FC Dallas / Pizza Hut Park
http://www.soccersiliconvalley.com/images/Pizza_Hut_Park.jpg
it is better for concerts in my opinion.

Houston Dynamo / Robertson Stadium
http://pictopia.com/perl/get_image?provider_id=65&size=550x550_mb&ptp_photo_id=130975

New England Revolution / Gillette Stadium
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/Gillette_Stadium.jpg

New York Red Bulls / Giant Stadium
http://msn.foxsports.com/id/7134744_7_1.jpg

New Stadium (US Soccer stadiums are starting to look like there Euro Cousins)
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/blogs/goal/posts/redbulls.aerial.533.jpg

Real Salt Lake / Rice-Eccles Stadium
http://real.saltlake.mlsnet.com/t121/imgs/stadium/430x200_stadium.jpg

Future Stadium under construction
http://www.rslstadium.com/images/RSL_stadium_2008.jpg

San Jose Earthquakes / McAfee Coliseum
http://football.ballparks.com/NFL/OaklandRaiders/aerial.jpg

Buck Shaw Stadium
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b9/BuckShawStadium.jpg/750px-BuckShawStadium.jpg

Toronto FC / BMO Field
http://toronto.fc.mlsnet.com/t280/imgs/stadium/finished.jpg

Kansas City Wizards / Community America Ballpark

NEW for 09' Seattle Sounders FC / Qwest Field
http://www.soundersfc.com/uploadedImages/Home/PhotoGallery/080417MexicoChina/qwestfull.jpg

NEW for 10' Philadelphia Sons of Ben / Un Named Stadium
http://chesterstadium.com/ChesterStadium1.jpg


So what is the worlds opinions of the Old parks and New Parks and those yet to be built in the USA?

WOW great photos

better pic of RFK in action

http://bp3.blogger.com/_RTu-tJ6cTc8/RzIMGYxSM0I/AAAAAAAAAA4/6Q1nXFafcvw/S600/Beckham+First+MLS+Game.jpg

I've never seen a football pitch like this. Perhaps they are allowed to run holding the ball with hands in that field? or they play with oval ball in there?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/Gillette_Stadium.jpg

Some of those stadium sponsors are cringe-worthy! lol On another note, i didn't realise how much smaller an NFL pitch is compared to a football pitch!!

P.S. Thanks for the post.

DC United / RFK Stadium

The lightling used for that stadium, is just terible and pain ugly. They should change it.

Let's also give some love to some nice USL soccer stadiums, eh?

The impressive-for-them-but-politically-botched-and-overpriced PAETEC park in highly underrated Rochester, NY!

http://www.rhinossoccer.com/uimages/pp2.jpg

And the humble but charming Blackbaud Stadium in Chareltson, SC. Hey, at least there's a bona fide English pub (The Three Lions) right next door! :cheers:

http://www.charlestonbattery.com/images/photo_stadium_overview3.jpg

I don't understand why, if they aren't going to get a new stadium, DC United hasn't renovated/overhauled RFK Stadium. They're the only tenants now, there's no more baseball or football there.

When is the USL stadium in Atlanta going to be fully built out?

I don't understand why, if they aren't going to get a new stadium, DC United hasn't renovated/overhauled RFK Stadium. They're the only tenants now, there's no more baseball or football there. They don't own it, it'd be quite expensive and depending on the source DC (the govt.) has bigger plans for that site. Either way, it's become a fiasco at the expense of United fans.

When is the USL stadium in Atlanta going to be fully built out?Likely, never. I couldn't find a good size pic of the existing two stands and surrounding grounds, but it's hardly anymore grand than Blackbaud shown above. The location, literally adjacent to the intersection of major interstates, is also not conducive to a large stadium. Sure that increases accessibility, but it also limits the size and configuration of buildable land. And considering how traffic is usually bottlenecked at that intersection anyway...

The name's bad enough, they had to go and move to some location truly devoid of urbanity. :ohno:

I don't understand why, if they aren't going to get a new stadium, DC United hasn't renovated/overhauled RFK Stadium. They're the only tenants now, there's no more baseball or football there.

When is the USL stadium in Atlanta going to be fully built out?

If I were the owner of DC United I would buy RFK stadium itself from the municipality with the money to build new stadium. It was built so long ago and is very very cheap stadium compared to recently built stadiums. Wikipidia says its construction cost is just 20 million dollars!

[QUOTE=mavn;21799007]How about that for a Klagenfurt copy...=QUOTE]

You know I have wondered if they are considering buying the upper deck and roof from Klagenfurt, it looks almost identacle (though a little bit bigger than what they want) and it might be cheaper with steel prices what they are, although shipping wouldn't be cheap.

Here's a better pic of Buck Shaw in action:
http://www.centerlinesoccer.com/wp-content/gallery/Quakes%20FC%20Dallas/MLSJS050308515.jpg
Photo by Centerline Soccer

Well, gotta give to the Los Angeles Galaxy's (and now also the Chivas USA) Home Depot Center for getting the whole trend started.

http://ci.carson.ca.us/content/imagegallery/images/homedepot_2.jpg

Well, gotta give to the Los Angeles Galaxy's (and now also the Chivas USA) Home Depot Center for getting the whole trend started.

http://ci.carson.ca.us/content/imagegallery/images/homedepot_2.jpg

Looks like parking capacity is bigger than stadium capacity :cheers:

I don't understand why, if they aren't going to get a new stadium, DC United hasn't renovated/overhauled RFK Stadium. They're the only tenants now, there's no more baseball or football there.

When is the USL stadium in Atlanta going to be fully built out?

its such an old piece of crap its just not worth it...DC united is in a pretty bad spot IMO

If I were the owner of DC United I would buy RFK stadium itself from the municipality with the money to build new stadium. It was built so long ago and is very very cheap stadium compared to recently built stadiums. Wikipidia says its construction cost is just 20 million dollars!

you cant just buy the stadium, its owned by the federal government, and congress would have to approve. Its complicated

Looks like parking capacity is bigger than stadium capacity :cheers:

Of course! this is Los Angeles after all,.. we love our cars.:cheers: Our city gave the world the "car culture":cheers:

Hmmm, futbol is an adolescent sport in the USA, why build a 100k capacity stadium when a 25k will do. This isn't London or Buenos Aires my friend.

Well, gotta give to the Los Angeles Galaxy's (and now also the Chivas USA) Home Depot Center for getting the whole trend started.

Um, you do know the Charleston Battery and Columbus Crew stadiums came 4 years before the HDC, don't you? There may have been 1-2 built prior to that, I just can't recall right now.

The future stadium of Real Salt Lake looks pretty nice.
Btw is there any specific reason why they have "Real" in the name?It's the Spanish "ray-al" pronunciation. When you don't have much of a bona fide soccer history, borrow some by using the namesake of one of the world's most famous clubs! :nuts:

And is the name of the team playing at Buck Shaw really "Earthquakes"?
That would be pretty stupid imo...Well it's indicative of the local area and is arguably the most historic name still in use in US soccer. Sure beats the MLS clubs first name for San Jose - the Clash!

The future stadium of Real Salt Lake looks pretty nice.
Btw is there any specific reason why they have "Real" in the name?

And is the name of the team playing at Buck Shaw really "Earthquakes"?
That would be pretty stupid imo...

Maybe Real Madrid is involved in it?

Thanks Michal

The future stadium of Real Salt Lake looks pretty nice.
Btw is there any specific reason why they have "Real" in the name?

And is the name of the team playing at Buck Shaw really "Earthquakes"?
That would be pretty stupid imo...

why is that stupid? its the same kind of name used anywhere in the US

Maybe Real Madrid is involved in it?They did/are pursuing some form of ties to Madrid, but the first attempt at a game between the clubs in Salt Lake has fallen through. There may be other business dealings but it's not, IIRC, anything as formal or coordinated as Arsenal has with the Colorado Rapids.

Hmm, from Wikipedia:
Dave Checketts and SCP Worldwide partners Dean Howes, Kenneth Munoz, Michael McCarthy and Chris Bevilacqua, chose Real Salt Lake for the team's name because they desired to associate the team with a successful soccer club, Real Madrid, as well as to develop a brand that was clearly associated with Football.

The team's name was initially met with derision in the fan community. Many fans thought the name should more accurately reflect the Salt Lake area. In the passing years, the criticism from local fans and the media has waned, and the club has instituted a formal relationship with Real Madrid. The team colors are claret red, cobalt blue, and Real gold.[1]

I think its kinda strange. The spanish clubs got awarded the title "real" from the king himself and they just copy it without any apparent relation :ohno:


As for the "Earthquakes" I just find it a bit strange to name a team after a potential natural disaster. But agree its better than "The Clash" :lol:

The future stadium of Real Salt Lake looks pretty nice.
Btw is there any specific reason why they have "Real" in the name?

I think they should pay royalties to Real Madrid

And is the name of the team playing at Buck Shaw really "Earthquakes"?
That would be pretty stupid imo...

I recommend tsunami instead of earthquakes.

As for the "Earthquakes" I just find it a bit strange to name a team after a potential natural disaster. But agree its better than "The Clash" :lol:In an effort to stand out from the all-too common array of animal names, soccer teams in the US have experimented with a variety of non-traditional names: Rowdies, Fusion, Kixx... Natural wonders have also hit the scene including the California Surf and the still playing Vancouver Whitecaps. Plus earthquakes are common enough in California that they're not all "disasters." It works for them.

I think they should pay royalties to Real Madrid.I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume Madrid does not, and never will be able to, copyright the word "royal" in any language. Especially if the term was heaped upon them by royalty, suggesting that, if anything, Salt Lake should pay the former Spanish monarchy! :lol:

I'm okay with Real, but for an MLS team to have FC in its name is ridiculous. Think about it for a second.

I'm okay with Real, but for an MLS team to have FC in its name is ridiculous. Think about it for a second.

never thought of that, but now after you wrote it, SO true :laugh:
i agree with the earthquake topic. the name is bad.

are these "walls" over the stand in Colorado, Chicago, Los Angeles media facilities? They are big. Too big for my taste.

How are the average attendance numbers?

Colorado Rapids / Dick's Sporting Goods Park
http://www.coloradorapids.com/images/news/headline/StadiumLightTest.jpg

Chicago Fire / Toyota Park
http://chicago.fire.mlsnet.com/t100/imgs/stadium/2008/main.jpg

LA Galaxy / Chivas USA / Home Depot Center
http://msn.foxsports.com/id/6044842_7_3.jpg

Some nice stadiums. The pics suggest that there is a definite North American flavour to the designs.Very easy on the eye.It will also be interesting to find out what American fans think of the more typically european type designs when they are up and running.

It took me a moment and no results...

FC stands for Football Club, and is being used by a team playing in Major League Soccer. :bash: :bash: :bash:

FC stands for Football Club, and is being used by a team playing in Major League Soccer. :bash: :bash: :bash:

nothing new... But how on earth is FC more ridiculous than Real?

I think the interesting thing about the earlier stadiums is that they were made in a way that would allow you to add more stand to them easily as the MLS grows and soccer grows in the US. Im willing to say in 20 years, all Americas Soccer stadiums will be similar in size to the one the Red Bulls are making and to all the ones in Europe.

nothing new... But how on earth is FC more ridiculous than Real?

FC and Real are just ways to make the US teams feel more traditional.

And this is the best Logo so far for a Soccer Team
Philadelphia Sons of Ben
http://www.sonsofben.net/Home/Home_files/jolly%20franklin%20%5Bcolor-BANNERS%5D%20-%20WEB2-0%20-%20trans%20blue.png

The logo in particular is awesome.

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/3761/soccerpic1bb8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I think the logo would be really nice if it wasn't for the balls in 2009. that just crosses the line ;)

I think the interesting thing about the earlier stadiums is that they were made in a way that would allow you to add more stand to them easily as the MLS grows and soccer grows in the US. Im willing to say in 20 years, all Americas Soccer stadiums will be similar in size to the one the Red Bulls are making and to all the ones in Europe.

I could bet in 20 years all American football/soccer stadiums will exceed most of Europe. Not that I'm particularly happy with it, but I think MLS is bound to be a huge success.

^^ I think its a little to much graphic to be put on a patch for the Uniforms.

I think the logo would be really nice if it wasn't for the balls in 2009. that just crosses the line ;)

.

I dont think those little balls are apart of the offical logo.

A Few dates are in MLS Logos

FC Dallas
http://mls.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pMLB2-4455411dt.jpg
Colorado Rapids
http://www.footballcrests.com/images/crests/colorado-rapids.jpg

ok, only 2


The MLS is a growing force right now. I love how all the teams are run and advertised.

FC and Real are just ways to make the US teams feel more traditional.

And this is the best Logo so far for a Soccer Team
Philadelphia Sons of Ben
http://www.sonsofben.net/Home/Home_files/jolly%20franklin%20%5Bcolor-BANNERS%5D%20-%20WEB2-0%20-%20trans%20blue.png

The Sons of Ben are a supporter's group that were an important piece in MLS awarding a franchise to Philadelphia. It's not the name of the team nor is that the team's crest, it's the crest of the supporter's group.

On another note, with all this discussion about team names and in particular that of Real Salt Lake... if there is one team that should put something "royal" in it's name, it should be St. Louis! After all, the city is named for King Louis IX of France. ;) The supposed St Louis crest is nice, but I think the color scheme resembles that of the Sounders a little to closely.

And since Toronto FC's stadium was included and that a couple of USL stadiums were also posted, it might be appropriate to also mention the new stadium built here in Montreal, Saputo Stadium:

http://www.boutiquemeteo.com/saputo/stadesaputo.htm

http://www.boutiquemeteo.com/saputo/semaine57/semaine57_1.jpg

i have to admit i take an interest in the MLS i find it interesting seeing football being mixed with american sporting tradition which gives this league an interesting and very different feel to other leagues around the world. generally the league is becoming more and more of a success and despite what some people say about the level of popularity the sport has in terms of attendance figures the MLS is a relatively high number 11 in world football/soccer domestic leagues with an average gate of 16,770 and as far as i am aware are these figures are growing regularly.
is there any news regarding current clubs expanding their stadiums as i remember reading somewhere mentioning that fc toronto are looking to expand their stadium.

That Montreal stadium is pretty cool. Is Montreal interested in the MLS at all?

i have to admit i take an interest in the MLS i find it interesting seeing football being mixed with american sporting tradition which gives this league an interesting and very different feel to other leagues around the world. generally the league is becoming more and more of a success and despite what some people say about the level of popularity the sport has in terms of attendance figures the MLS is a relatively high number 11 in world football/soccer domestic leagues with an average gate of 16,770 and as far as i am aware are these figures are growing regularly.
is there any news regarding current clubs expanding their stadiums as i remember reading somewhere mentioning that fc toronto are looking to expand their stadium.

Yeah, I was also pretty suprised to see how MLS attendance stacks up against the rest of the world. Especially in comparison to places like Brazil, Italy, and Argentina.

MLS average attendances rival that of the NBA and NHL, so I guess thats a good sign.

That Montreal stadium is pretty cool. Is Montreal interested in the MLS at all?


It certainly is! The Saputo family, who own the team and stadium, along with George Gillett have already submitted some type of letter of intent or proposal to MLS. Don Garber was also present at the first official match at Saputo Stadium.

It certainly is! The Saputo family, who own the team and stadium, along with George Gillett have already submitted some type of letter of intent or proposal to MLS. Don Garber was also present at the first official match at Saputo Stadium.

good to hear. Montreal would be an awesome city for a team and a natural rival for Toronto. I would imagine it would have a pretty good fanbase too.

Just a little off topic but why do American professional clubs have a common format for naming their teams regardless of their sports kinds? City name + plural type of a word(Typicall animal or object name)... New York Mets, St.Louise Cardinals, Boston Red Sox, Florida Marlins, New York Giants, Miami Dolphins.................... I rarely remember to see other formats.

I dont know. The same goes with the Colleges as well. Its just an American thing i guess. Some of the US soccer teams have gone other ways and tried the more traditional soccer approach. Ex. FC Dallas, DC United, Toronto FC, Real Salt Lake, New England Revolution, Chivas USA and i guess the new Seattle team...what is a Sounder?

Chicago Fire is my favorite because they pay tribute to the Chicago fire houses that are some of the most legendary firemen ever!

good to hear. Montreal would be an awesome city for a team and a natural rival for Toronto. I would imagine it would have a pretty good fanbase too.

Aaah, Canadian derby? :) After what FC Toronto present it could be really electric... What position would this rivalry put Vancouver in?
And btw, do you know if there is any tension between Chivas and Galaxy?

Yeah, I was also pretty suprised to see how MLS attendance stacks up against the rest of the world. Especially in comparison to places like Brazil, Italy, and Argentina.

MLS average attendances rival that of the NBA and NHL, so I guess thats a good sign.

i reckon mls attendances could outgrow those two leagues soon and i heard that soccer in now beginning to become more popular than hockey dunno if thats right though. i wouldnt be suprised if the mls overtook the Italian Seria A soon and also the Argentinian Primera Division. i have to admit i was suprised to see attendances in those countries were so low but im guessing its probably down to very poor levels of stadiums infrastructure and poor security which put off a lot of people but i reckon after the 2014 world cup the attendances in brazil will probably shoot up and might even overtake germany and england.

good to hear. Montreal would be an awesome city for a team and a natural rival for Toronto. I would imagine it would have a pretty good fanbase too.

We have had the top attendance in the USL the last few years and so far every game in Saputo Stadium (13,500 capacity) has sold out.

and i guess the new Seattle team...what is a Sounder?

The Sounders name comes from the fact that Seattle lies inside of Puget Sound.

Aaah, Canadian derby? :) After what FC Toronto present it could be really electric... What position would this rivalry put Vancouver in?
And btw, do you know if there is any tension between Chivas and Galaxy?

yeah, that would be an awesome game between TO and Montreal. Toronto has some pretty great fans.

Vancouver if awarded a team would probally have more of a rivarly with the nearby Sounders.

I am not too sure how big the rivarly is between Chivas U.S. and the Galaxy. I would imagine there is some tension, but the two teams are too new for it to be a geniune rivarly.

We have had the top attendance in the USL the last few years and so far every game in Saputo Stadium (13,500 capacity) has sold out.
.

Thats great for an USL team. I imagine the city would pack the house for an MLS game!

Sigh.....all this talk of the MLS just makes me sad knowing that my city will never have a team.

i have to admit i take an interest in the MLS i find it interesting seeing football being mixed with american sporting tradition which gives this league an interesting and very different feel to other leagues around the world. generally the league is becoming more and more of a success and despite what some people say about the level of popularity the sport has in terms of attendance figures the MLS is a relatively high number 11 in world football/soccer domestic leagues with an average gate of 16,770 and as far as i am aware are these figures are growing regularly.
is there any news regarding current clubs expanding their stadiums as i remember reading somewhere mentioning that fc toronto are looking to expand their stadium.

Let me start by saying I am a big fan of growing the game here and I support MLS...so when I tell you the attendance figures are more than a little misleading, please don't tell me I hate the game and want it to swiftly fade from the American sports scene. Kenn Tomasch worked for the league and tracked attendance figures regularly. He has since left the league and no longer has an interest in keeping track of paid gate estimates. A few points (to paraphrase his work):

1-In most of the rest of the world, attendance is tracked in terms of how many actually show up for a match. Here, it is based upon tickets distributed.

2-If you don't show up here but possess a ticket, you still count. In Europe/SA, you don't.

3-Two years ago, about 1 in 4 tickets here is a freebee. In Europe/SA, someone is paying for nearly every ticket. Even if you get a free one, most likely it was purchased by a corporation for clients.

As a result, attendance here is relatively overstated. It has improved in the last 2 years, but if the average is 16,000, the paying ticket base is about 12,000-13,000 and the numbers actually attending are closer to 11,000-12,000. MLS is also in the habit of playing double headers with national team matches or European exhibition matches headlining. For example, I went to a Fire-Columbus match a couple of years back that immediately preceded Chivas (Guadalajara) vs. Real Madrid. 60,000 showed up at Soldier Field and the Fire got attendance credit for that. Never mind 1/2 the crowd was Mexican and another 1/4 to 40% showed up to see Beckham, Zidane, Figo and Co.

MLS will not expand stadia for some time. They'll reduce the number of comped tickets first. Then, they'll increase the ticket prices to make the match a more scarce, must see "event" rather than something you can pay $15 to see if the weather is nice.

Part of the draw of the new soccer specific stadia (SSS) is that the crowd seems more full than playing in a larger American football stadium, so the atmosphere is better. The new SSS are scalable, so what you'll most likely see is one stand at a time being remodeled. Maybe they add a second tier to the main stand to increase capacity by 4,000 or so first, etc until everything looks symmetrical again.

I'm not complaining though. The simple fact that the league is still around and they didn't try to grow too quickly like MLS' predecessor NASL is a good first step. The fact that ESPN is actually showing the Euro matches on mainstream TV rather than Setanta covering it shows me that soccer is hitting the mainstream. MLS actually has a contract now with ABC/ESPN to show games, which is a big leap from the league actually paying the network to broadcast MLS a couple of years ago. We'll get there, but it won't be quick.

Let me start by saying I am a big fan of growing the game here and I support MLS...so when I tell you the attendance figures are more than a little misleading, please don't tell me I hate the game and want it to swiftly fade from the American sports scene. Kenn Tomasch worked for the league and tracked attendance figures regularly. He has since left the league and no longer has an interest in keeping track of paid gate estimates. A few points (to paraphrase his work):

1-In most of the rest of the world, attendance is tracked in terms of how many actually show up for a match. Here, it is based upon tickets distributed.

2-If you don't show up here but possess a ticket, you still count. In Europe/SA, you don't.

3-Two years ago, about 1 in 4 tickets here is a freebee. In Europe/SA, someone is paying for nearly every ticket. Even if you get a free one, most likely it was purchased by a corporation for clients.

As a result, attendance here is relatively overstated. It has improved in the last 2 years, but if the average is 16,000, the paying ticket base is about 12,000-13,000 and the numbers actually attending are closer to 11,000-12,000. MLS is also in the habit of playing double headers with national team matches or European exhibition matches headlining. For example, I went to a Fire-Columbus match a couple of years back that immediately preceded Chivas (Guadalajara) vs. Real Madrid. 60,000 showed up at Soldier Field and the Fire got attendance credit for that. Never mind 1/2 the crowd was Mexican and another 1/4 to 40% showed up to see Beckham, Zidane, Figo and Co.

MLS will not expand stadia for some time. They'll reduce the number of comped tickets first. Then, they'll increase the ticket prices to make the match a more scarce, must see "event" rather than something you can pay $15 to see if the weather is nice.

Part of the draw of the new soccer specific stadia (SSS) is that the crowd seems more full than playing in a larger American football stadium, so the atmosphere is better. The new SSS are scalable, so what you'll most likely see is one stand at a time being remodeled. Maybe they add a second tier to the main stand to increase capacity by 4,000 or so first, etc until everything looks symmetrical again.

I'm not complaining though. The simple fact that the league is still around and they didn't try to grow too quickly like MLS' predecessor NASL is a good first step. The fact that ESPN is actually showing the Euro matches on mainstream TV rather than Setanta covering it shows me that soccer is hitting the mainstream. MLS actually has a contract now with ABC/ESPN to show games, which is a big leap from the league actually paying the network to broadcast MLS a couple of years ago. We'll get there, but it won't be quick.

i agree with most of what you said, however numbers 1 and 2 are not necessarily true

I think Seattle can fill up Qwest better then other cities could fill up there football stadiums, forcing them to move to smaller stadiums.

i agree with most of what you said, however numbers 1 and 2 are not necessarily true

I'll show you how one is absolutely true and the other is at least generally true.

MLS attendance figures:

Read this article here: http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/soccer/20060927-9999-lz1s27goal.html

Paid tickets + comps in every case < announced attendance, so not only is MLS counting all tickets distributed (paid and free), they're actually counting more than all tickets distributed toward attendance.

In general, other nations use gate attendance rather than paid attendance when recording crowds. For example, the EPL here: http://stats.football365.com/dom/ENG/PR/attend.html

The top of this list had 100% complete sellouts for all games in terms of paid attendance. Yet for example, Old Trafford's attendance was 500 less than capacity. This was due to the fact that official attendance figures count those who show up rather than those who purchase tickets. For every league match played there, there were 500 unused tickets per match. In leagues where crowd aren't as well controlled, i.e., no turnstiles, ticket scanning, this can't hold true.

Anyways, back to US soccer stadiums. Last I read on here about DC United, the original plans for the poplar point stadium have been scrapped, but the team and a new developer are working on a much more toned down stadium design, and are looking for government funding.


No, the plans to build are not dead, in fact the DC city council is supposed to make a decision whether to build or not in the near future.

DC needs to build that stadium, RFK is a relic left over from the past that needs to be demolished ASAP!