These images were taken August 2005. Can anybody explain what has happened since?

http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/53381443.jpg?v=1&c=MS_GINS&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19390335F8FA9CA92A68209371157B6AF41C7631F868A8C7D54

http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/53381442.jpg?v=1&c=MS_GINS&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19390335F8FA9CA92A68209371157B6AF414E9C89C783688B46

http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/53381424.jpg?v=1&c=MS_GINS&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19390335F8FA9CA92A62B9B6D0272CE5B4FF06BF04B24B4128C


http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/53381421.jpg?v=1&c=MS_GINS&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19390335F8FA9CA92A62B9B6D0272CE5B4FEC7C5022FB410D56

http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/53381422.jpg?v=1&c=MS_GINS&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19390335F8FA9CA92A62B9B6D0272CE5B4F4E9C89C783688B46

http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/52494155.jpg?v=1&c=MS_GINS&k=2&d=F8518A8D414812469206C5532844B7E4

The site exceeded its bandwidth? ;)

I don't even know what the images are of.

why has that bloke in the first pic got his hand "up his harris"

Athens?

@ Mo Rush: As far as I know at the Hellinikon Complex the main basketball center is being used by a team in the Greek A1 Basketball League called 'Panionios', so it is used regularly. I cannot really say as much for the other venues at this particular complex.

Unlike the stadiums at the main Olympic complex (OAKA) such as the Olympic Stadium, Indoor Hall, Aquatic Center which are used regularly, many of the Hellinikon Complex stadiums seem to be neglected as far as I know.

But I dont live in Greece so I cant really tell you the whole story.

With the significant technological progress in the development and design of temporary Olympic venues and modular structures host cities still choose to create and design permanent Olympic venues. In some cases the legacy is a lasting benefit but many examples exist where only green swimming pools and locked up arenas remain.

There are however many examples where cities have got it right. The temporary aquatic centre expansion of Sydney 2000, the gym, recreation and aquatic use of the Atlanta Georgia Tech Aquatic Centre and many more.

Which venues have been a benefit and which a burden?

Atlanta's Olympic Stadium was successfully converted into a MLB stadium now known as Turner Field.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44222000/jpg/_44222953_atlanta416.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/193/479195352_7493b7c894.jpg?v=0

What is the main athletics venue in Atlanta?

I'm going to have to say that London 2012's venue plan has to be the most post-games friendly in Summer Games history. They apparently got some advice from the folks at Vancouver 2010, where every venue has a huge post-games plan and will be converted into much needed recreational and community facilities for locals.

^^things don't always go according to plan...

In Sydney it has been a massive burden. The main venue at Homebush loses money and would be better sense to have it demolished. Attendances for rugby internationals and NRL have actually decreased. The ARU wants to move internationals back to the Sydney Football Stadium because of the lack of atmosphere.

Having said that with an Australian Football League club set to be based out there from 2012 it could save the place.

From what you see of the place, it has 'another VFL Park schimozzle' written all over it.

They should have built the stadium in Moore Park(central Sydney) and made the train lines and traffic better there.

It's only hope is the Western Sydney AFL club long term. It is the only code to regularly get large enough gates to get enough money for its usage.

What is the main athletics venue in Atlanta?

Probably Harvey Stadium, it belongs to Morehouse College.

In Sydney it has been a massive burden. The main venue at Homebush loses money and would be better sense to have it demolished. Attendances for rugby internationals and NRL have actually decreased. The ARU wants to move internationals back to the Sydney Football Stadium because of the lack of atmosphere.

Having said that with an Australian Football League club set to be based out there from 2012 it could save the place.

From what you see of the place, it has 'another VFL Park schimozzle' written all over it.

They should have built the stadium in Moore Park(central Sydney) and made the train lines and traffic better there.

It's only hope is the Western Sydney AFL club long term. It is the only code to regularly get large enough gates to get enough money for its usage.

I've heard a different story. Telstra now ANZ stadium was facing issues but now was doing quite well. The superdome was now one of the most successful indoor concert/events venues.

The only white elephant issues I think is with the rowing venue.

From what I heard Telstra Stadium has been going quite well in recent years as well. Especially considering how popular Monday Night Football has turned out to be.

And now that the Australian Football League is considering setting up a new team in Western Sydney, it should breathe even more life into the former Olympic stadium.

But of course by the time that team gets up and going, Carlton will easily be the most dominant team in the league. The Western Sydney team will just be another play thing for the Blues, and such games will hardly fill the stadium to capacity :)

What is the main athletics venue in Atlanta?


In addition to Turner Field (formerly Olympic Stadium):

The Georgia Dome - venue for several Olympic events and home of the NFL Atlanta Falcons.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/215/481430551_dc7922aebf.jpg?v=1178208387
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ucumari/481430551/


Phillips Arena - home of the NBA Atlanta Hawks and NHL Atlanta Thrashers, opened in 1999.
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/28/39902822_eed37d35e8.jpg?v=0
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thetakeover/39902822/


There were also several other venues hosting Olympic events, including two that have since been demolished - Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium and The Omni Arena. Most of the former Olympic venues are still in use.

I only just found out that Telstra Stadium (the Sydney Olympic Stadium) is now ANZ Stadium. How long ago did this happen Bobdabuilder? I feel stupid for not knowing...

In Sydney it has been a massive burden. The main venue at Homebush loses money and would be better sense to have it demolished. Attendances for rugby internationals and NRL have actually decreased. The ARU wants to move internationals back to the Sydney Football Stadium because of the lack of atmosphere.

Having said that with an Australian Football League club set to be based out there from 2012 it could save the place.

From what you see of the place, it has 'another VFL Park schimozzle' written all over it.

They should have built the stadium in Moore Park(central Sydney) and made the train lines and traffic better there.

It's only hope is the Western Sydney AFL club long term. It is the only code to regularly get large enough gates to get enough money for its usage.

You are full of shit.

You are full of shit.
It falls right in line with his league-bashing.

Bob..You are full of crap...The Sydney Olympic Stadium is currently getting critisised for hosting TOO MANY events..They are running at an operating profit...Go check the annual reports....Rugby Internationals all over Australia have dropped in attendances and they still get 50,000 in Sydney for a dud French side.The ARU are not considering taking games back to the 45,000 seat SFS..How fucking stupid would that be..Especially considering in a couple of weeks it will be jammed packed with over 80,000 for the Bledisloe Cup.

^^^^^^^^^^^

Check your facts. The ARU is considering moving back to Moore Park as they want to make the SFS 55,000 capacity after their agreement with the Homebush people ends in 2011.

Rugby fans are complaining that it takes too long to get out there, public transport does not always run, car parks are not available and most of all the place has no atmosphere.

The Atlanta Stadium and Omni Coliseum may be the only venues used for a Summer Olympics to have passed away after the event. A 10,000-seat venue named the Blyth Arena in Squaw Valley was the main venue for the 1960 Winter Olympics and it passed away in 1983. Have any other non-temporary sports venues passed away after they were used for an Olympics? I know the White City Stadium has been one of those.

^^^^^^^^^^^

Check your facts. The ARU is considering moving back to Moore Park as they want to make the SFS 55,000 capacity after their agreement with the Homebush people ends in 2011.

.

what facts?...some silly article written by an Eastern Suburbs journo(Greg Growden) who doesnt like sitting 15 minutes on the train from Central Stadium to Olympic Park....The ARU will not take away Rugby Internationals from Homebush..and there is no plans to expand the SFS to 55,000...none from the SCG trust and none from the NSW state government.....simple as that

Actually this is an open question to the forumers from the countries wich hosted Olympics before (we can include China as well). Maybe LA, Seoul, Barcelona, Atlanta, Sydney, Athens, Bejing. And even former Games, like Moscow or Munich.

What did Olympic Games give to your city? What did Olympics change in your city?

Not only in the meaning of sport complexes. In everything, infrasutructur, urban transformation, culture, tourism ect.

And if it is possible, could you explain with photos?

:)

The games had a profound impact on the city of Atlanta and many in the Atlanta metro area consider the Games to be instrumental in transforming Atlanta into the modernized city it has become. One example of this modernization is the mid-rise dormitories built for the Olympic Village. One of these complexes became the first residential housing for Georgia State University, and has recently been transferred for use by the Georgia Institute of Technology. Other examples include Turner Field, which was a modification of the original Centennial Olympic Stadium, and where the Atlanta Braves baseball team now makes its home. Centennial Olympic Park was also built for the events and is still in use.

Atlanta used no public money to finance the Games, which cost US$1.8 billion to host. It was the first city in Olympic history to use ticket sales, commercial endorsements, advertising, and private money alone to fund the hosting of the Olympics. The consequence of this, however, was that some felt that the Games in Atlanta were over-commercialized and were less exciting than previous Games.

At least the taxpayer didn't have to pick up the tab. I am always for private funding to save the taxpayers money. Atlanta did a great job hosting the Olympics. People around the world know Atlanta as a result of putting on a great Olympics.

is Olympics efective on Winter Games host cities?

Olympic Games 1928 in Amsterdam

The goverment of the Netherlands was against the Olympic Games. Especially right wing parties were against it because certain people saw it as an act of paganism.

This was a problem, because it couldn't be funded by the government. It had to be funded by the people itself and companies. The city of Amsterdam bought Schiphol Airport to improve the airport. Just in time of the Olympic Games major improvements were made. For Amsterdam itself and it's people it was not a commercial success, but the loss was very small (far less than prior Olympic Games). For the sport itself it did a great job, especially for women. Not only in Amsterdam, but also in the rest of the country.

Melbourne held the Olympics way back in 1956...the first in the southern hemisphere...back then it truely must have felt a long way away from the rest of the world. Television although not instantly, no satelites then, spread events around the globe. It gave the City a sporting complex right beside the heart of the business district and was the first city to have the athletes enter the closing ceremony arena mixed together, not segregated by country flags or banners...The Friendly games...I think the legacy it left Melbourne and Australia was that we are a place of friendly, free and welcoming people. This also laid in place the foundations for Melbourne to host a successful Commonwealth Games in 2006...and World Swimming Championships in 2007. Finally, leaves Melbourne today as arguably the worlds most International sporting city.....and a strong contender for another Olympics in the future.

Are you serious? They had no choice really but to find some use for venues.

Some cities just prefer making those decision before hand.

Most of the major venues (including the Olympic Indoor Hall) were used by major sports teams before the Olympics as well. In terms of at least major venues (Olympic Stadium, sports halls, football grounds) most Olympic venues have found suitable uses.

They were unused for a while though.

Please provide images of all the venues in use.
I believe that they are in use but I don't understand how the BBC could produce a news insert as recent as last year showing some venues still locked up.

Olympic Stadium - Used by both Panathinaikos, AEK FC
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/43/PaoVsDinamo.jpg/800px-PaoVsDinamo.jpg

Olympic Indoor Hall - Panathinaikos BC
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/eb/OAKA1010436.JPG/800px-OAKA1010436.JPG

Karaiskaki Stadium - Olympiacos FC
http://www.sport24.gr/ast/cov/os/osfpchelsea5_b.jpg

Peace and Friendship Stadium - Olympicos BC
http://olympiacostv.informe.com/gallery/375-2/SEF+OLYMPIAKOS.jpg

Olympic Press Center - Golden Hall Shopping Mall
http://www.goldenhall.gr/

Olympic Broadcasting Center - HelExpo Convention/Expo Center
http://images.artnet.com/images_US/magazine/reviews/robinson/robinson6-6-07-1.jpg

Elliniko Indoor Hall - Panionios BC
http://www.panthers.gr/images/main/photos/07-08/panionios-marousi2.jpg

Kaftantzoglio Stadium -Iraklis FC
http://www.kaftanzoglio.gr/en/index.html
http://www.ert.gr/aerialphoto/photos/big_new/stadia_gipeda/stadia_36.jpg

Pankritiko Stadium - Ergotelis FC, OFI FC
http://www.stadia.gr/pankritio/pankritio26th.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgDfeeC9boM


Galatsi Indoor Hall - Currently being developed into a shopping Center (was
host to AEK BC after the Olympics for a few years)
- Dont have pics

Elliniko Baseball Stadium - Ethnikos FC
http://www.ethnikos.gr/Photos-2008-09/Football/Elliniko_3.jpg

Faliro Tae Kwon Do Hall - Concert Hall (hosts many concerts yearly)
http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/52567998.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=780858ABC91EC2149C11F11F4584E417A40A659CEC4C8CB6

Goudi Badminton Center - Badminton Theater (one of the most heavily used theaters in Athens)
http://www.badmintontheater.gr/


This is off the top of my head, maybe I missed a couple. I don't think anyone is saying that the Organizing Committee did the best job in the world planning out the post games use from the venues, however the games have left a great legacy in Athens as the city now has not only much improved sports complexes but infastructure as well. If you compare the city itself pre-Olympics and post-Olympics you will see the great difference. Many works were done for the games that have had a lasting effect on the city and country.

The BBC and other media outlets have painted a much darker picture than the actual reality. A recent yahoo.com article actually stated that 21 of the 22 Olympic venues in Athens are not in use! This is an obvious mistake (so not to say outright lie) which gives people who don't totally know the real situation in Athens a very distorted view of the legacy of the 2004 Olympics.

Are ALL the venues being used? No they aren't.. However most of them have found long term useage after the games, and along with the major improvements in infastructure in Athens, the Olympic complexes are really anything but "white elephants".

Μπορεί κάποιος να κάνει thread στο completed section για το Ολυμπιακό στάδιο; Με φωτογραφίες από την κατασκευή του, οικόνες αρχείου, τη ανακατασκεύη του 2004 κτλ; Είναι το μόνο μεγάλο στάδιο που δεν υπάρχει εκεί και δεν έχω πολλές φωτογραφίες εγώ.

Most of the major venues (

Most?

Most were not there before the Games...

What I'd like to know, is if this entire article is a lie?
Its fairly recent.

I have no doubt the main stadium and basketball venue is being used.
That the softball venue is now used for football, another used as a theatre.


The 2004 Olympic legacy that London must avoid
Robert Mendick
06.02.09

A diving pool with four inches of stagnant water, brand new stadia mothballed and derelict, an Olympic complex all but abandoned and strewn with litter and graffiti — this is the legacy from the Athens Olympics in 2004.

An Evening Standard investigation has uncovered Olympic venues which remain unused and barred to the public just five years on — in a stark warning for organisers of the London Games. On the day Mayor Boris Johnson and Olympics minister Tessa Jowell announce a new company to “secure a lasting legacy” in the wake of London 2012, the size of the task that confronts them is obvious — if the Athens experience is anything to go by.

Venue after venue of the 2004 Games, visited by the Standard, is in disrepair. Graffiti covers stadia walls; weeds grow through walkways once used by spectators and athletes; litter spills out across empty plazas while metal fences and padlocked gates bar entry.

At the main Olympic site, ornamental fountains have long been switched off, the pools filled with torn flyers for, among other things, “live strip shows”. The area is all but empty. Water has been drained from the diving pool, which is now home to a flip-flop, ball, plastic bags and polystyrene cups.

The velodrome is ghostly quiet. Bird droppings cover the seating, the backs of which have also been spray-painted with graffiti.

At the Olympic village — converted to a workers' housing settlement in the north of Athens — the plaque to commemorate the Games is covered by spray paint while the central promenade is overgrown with weeds and blighted by dog mess, whisky bottles, cracked paving stones and — perhaps not surprisingly — spray paint cans.

Meanwhile a vast Olympic park at Helleniko that should have been created on the site of Athens' old airport — providing residents with welcome relief from the city's traffic-clogged streets and pollution — remains an abject wasteland. A rusting Boeing 747, emblazoned with the graffiti slogan “Chill High”, stands on the edge of what should be a splendid public park while three Olympic stadia, once venues for hockey, baseball and softball go to waste. The fencing venue is nothing more than a derelict concrete hangar.

When the Standard reporter and photographer arrived at the Helleniko site, a southern suburb on the coast about four miles from the city centre, our way was barred by security guards.

After 24 hours of negotiation, the Standard, escorted by three minders, was finally given access to a site normally shut to the public. Photographs were allowed, provided they did not include close-ups.

Neither the hockey nor softball stadium has been used since 2004 while the baseball arena has been converted into an ill-fitting football ground for a Greek second division side.

Millions of pounds a year are wasted maintaining sites the public cannot visit. “We test the facilities every day,” said one of the minders working for a subcontractor of the parent company Hellenic Olympic Properties. “The softball is in perfect working order. It is not abandoned. It's just that nobody ever plays softball.”

Asked why the 5,000-seat hockey arena had not seen a match since the Olympics, another minder laughed: “Hockey in Greece. Ha ha ha.”

A spokeswoman for Hellenic Olympic Properties, a state-owned company created by the government to manage and lease venues at Helleniko and down the road at Faliro — which should have regenerated the areas — admitted: “The children are only interested in basketball and football. All the other Olympic sports — nobody has any interest.”

What went wrong in Athens at an Olympics that cost $15 billion will make disquieting reading for those charged with ensuring the legacy is not wasted in London. The Greeks lagged so far behind in staging the Games — there were fears right up until the opening ceremony that venues would not be ready. Nobody considered what would be done with stadia after the athletes had left town.

There have been improvements — an updated metro, a tram along the waterfront, improved roads and new airport — but those achievements, which could have been built with or without an Olympics, are overshadowed by the subsequent failures.

The matter was not helped by a change of government four months before the Olympics, when the conservative New Democracy party took power from the socialist PASOK.

Since December, when 15-year-old Alexander Grigoropoulos was shot dead by police, the Greek capital has been in the grip of a mass riots, strikes and anti-government demonstrations.
“The Olympics has failed to inspire a generation of kids,” says Barney Spender, editor of sportingreece.com. “Going out and throwing rocks at policemen has become the national sport. Athens was really thrown up.

“They got the Games in 1997 but then only started building three years before. They wasted three years doing nothing but arguing and nothing got done. Nobody had a plan for the legacy. There was no unified structure. It's a big mess really.”

Ioannis Georganas, 35, an archaeologist, who is typical of a disaffected population, said: “During the Olympics, Athens was a lively, happy city. Everybody was smiling all the time. There was something different in the atmosphere but unfortunately after it all finished people went back to their routines and that was it. We never built on that momentum to do more. We missed the opportunity.”

In 2004 the hosts were 16th in the medals table with six golds. In Beijing last year, Greece won two bronze and two silvers, finishing 59th. Child obesity levels are among Europe's highest.

London 2012 organisers are confident the lessons of Athens have been absorbed. The setting up of a legacy company is a step on the road to securing the site's future success. London at least has a plan. That's more than can be said for Athens.

Thanks for the pics.
You should add the dates to the images and send them to UK news agencies.

lol someone is jealous about the Olympics, haha. Half of the article is irrelevant about the game (what have the December events have to do with them lol)

Tell me, what is your problem if all the venues are being converted in either football or basketball? You have some serious issues with us when you post articles like that. Yes people, Athens gained by the Olympics more things than any other Olympic city could gain. You can be jealous, you can quote British hate articles, but thats the truth. And since almost all the main venues have hosted games the last week I challenge you to go and find pictures and info about derelict Olympic buildings.

In all honestly Mo, I don't know what you're trying to prove. I give you a through listing of 13 Olympic venues that are in regular use and yet you seem to brush it aside. Do you not believe what I am saying is true? I do live in Athens, and I have been to events at many of these stadia since the end of 2004, I really have no reason to make anything up.

Nor am I saying that the games Organizing Committee did a great job of post-Olympic planning. Many of these venues took a while to find final suitors, however the situation really isn't that bad, and aside from some venues like the Hockey, Softball arenas which would be hard pressed o find post Olympics use in Greece, most of the other venues are being used in some shape or form, whether it be as sports venues, theaters, shopping centers, convention halls, etc...

Thanks for the pics.
You should add the dates to the images and send them to UK news agencies.
I really don't care enough to do such a thing. People will make their own conclusions based on sketchy evidence and exaggerations of the truth. The article stated that the OAKA complex is in despair and just a series of "empty plazas". What he failed to mention is that although the pool and Velodrome might not be heavily used, the main stadium (centerpiece of the games) as well as the main indoor hall, tennis center are all used regularly. The Olympic Stadium itself is probably the most heavily used in modern Olympic history. Since the games two of Greece's biggest teams have played all their League, Cup, European Cup games in the stadium. Additionally the venue has hosted the likes of Shakira, Madonna, George Michaels, etc....

Most?

Most were not there before the Games...
The Olympic Stadium, Indoor Hall, and most of the football grounds were there (in some shape or form) before the games.

Like I said, you need to judge other additions to Athens as well. The road work , infrastructure projects, etc... have greatly enhanced getting around in the city. All in all the games gave a lot to Greece.

I do believe you and am quite aware of all the benefits of the Games.
My main interest is the venues.

So its just hockey and 1 or 2 others not in use?

I've seen recent images of the Olympic Park, why does the area look like it hasnt been cleaned in a while? I'll check how recent these images are but please don't misinterpret my questions as being negative or anti-Athens.

There is a clear media bias to present only the negative of the legacy of the Athens venues and I'm just trying to get a very clear picture of how long it took to find uses for the venues and the current state of the venues.

So if the article says the Velodrome seats are dirty and the pool is green, I'd like to know if that means it hasn't been used in a while or does that mean it's just not maintained by the city or state.

Sercan, can you please clean the mess? There are 2-3 certain people who like to discuss about the past Athens2004 Olympic venues over and over again.

You know "i read this article about the venues and blabla", and this is going on from 2004 till now, 2009.

If you really care (in a good way) about the Olympic venues open a new thread, or go to the Hellenic Agora and asks for infos there. There are many guys which will help you. Don't ruin this thread with endless dialogues which lead to flamewars.

A discussion area for questions relating to the venues since the GREECE stadium thread is apparently not the right area to discuss Greek venues.

As many posters here know, there's been more articles about this issue in the international press, including the most recent one posted by Yahoo Sports, claiming that 21 out of the 22 Olympic facilities in Athens were "abandoned." In the athletics thread, I pasted the letter that I wrote to Yahoo Sports, refuting their claims. However, after coming across some other articles on the issue, such as one by the Daily Express, I did some more research, and wrote the following letter to them. I'm posting it here because I go through each of the Olympic facilities individually, and present as much as possible evidence of how they are used, how they have been used, and how they will be used:

******

Dear Editors,

This article couldn't be less accurate about the status of Athens four years after the Olympic Games. It seems to me that your "journalists" merely paid a cursory visit to some facilities, and upon observing that the facilities, on that day, were closed, assumed that they are abandoned. That could not be further from the truth.

Below, please find an overview (with links and evidence) as to how the facilities in Athens are in use today:

the Olympic Stadium being used for domestic soccer league matches (home field for two teams in the Greek Super League, Panathinaikos - www.pao.gr - and AEK Athens - www.aekfc.gr), track meets (like the Tsiklitiria meet, part of the IAAF Golden League - http://www.tsiklitiria.org/) , and concerts (Shakira and Pearl Jam in recent years among others, Bjork a couple of months ago - http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_artic...0/05/2008_97189 -, Madonna in a few weeks - http://www.ticketpro.gr/ -). The OAKA also held the UEFA Champion's League final in 2007: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ljz6N9bAtWA...feature=related

The OAKA basketball stadium is the home court for Panathinaikos - www.paobc.gr - and AEK - www.aekbc.gr - in the Greek first division of basketball, and recently held the FIBA Pre-Olympic Qualifying Matches (http://www.athens2008.fiba.com/), as well as the Eurovision Song Contest in 2006. It is also the home court for the Greek National basketball team.

The velodrome recently hosted the Greek Cycling Championships (photos here: http://apolisports.blogspot.com/2008/06/gr...ship-2008.html). And here is a list of events held there recently (unfortunately only in Greek): http://www.oaka.com.gr/articles_list.asp?e...mp;e_cat_id=324

The tennis center is still in use, here's a list of tournaments held there recently (unfortunately only in Greek): http://www.oaka.com.gr/articles_list.asp?e...mp;e_cat_id=325. It is also used by the Athens Tennis Academy: http://www.athenstennisacademy.gr/eng/gallery.html

The aquatic center is still in use as well...list of recent tournaments, again only in Greek: http://www.oaka.com.gr/articles_list.asp?e...mp;e_cat_id=342. The outdoor pool is open to the public as well. http://www.e-tipos.com/newsitem?id=47588

The Peace and Friendship stadium is still in use and is the home court for Olympiakos BC (basketball) - http://www.olympiacos.org/#/Basketball/TrainingCenter/SEF/ - as well as for conventions and exhibitions, a list of which can be found here: http://www.sef-stadium.gr/index.files/Page1937.htm

The Hellinikon basketball stadium is now the home court for Panionios BC in the Greek basketball league: http://www.panioniosbc.gr/index.asp?a_id=90. The stadium has also hosted numerous concerts and conventions, including Iron Maiden, the Athens Tuning Show, the Tourism & Property Show, the Woman Show and many others: http://www.e-tipos.com/newsitem?id=47588

The baseball field at the Hellinikon complex has been converted to a football pitch and is the home field for Ethnikos FC in the Greek second division: http://www.sport.gr/default.asp?pid=96&amp...64&cid=2216

The Canoe-Kayak facility at the Hellinikon complex recently held the Greek canoe-kayak championships, and will be converted to a waterpark, as the facility has already been handed over to a private consortium, including J&P AVAX, GEP, Corfu Waterparks and BIOTER. This waterpark will be part of the larger plans to turn the entire Hellinkon property, which was once Athens' international airport, into a metropolitan park. http://www.e-tipos.com/newsitem?id=47588, http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_artic...3/08/2007_86425.

Karaiskaki Stadium is the home pitch for Olympiakos FC: http://www.olympiacos.org/#/Football/Train...ter/Karaiskaki/ and has hosted domestic and Champions League matches continuously since 2004 and has also held concerts and festivals (including the fly beeyond festival and a concert with Massive Attack, also seen in the link above). It has also served as the home field for the Greek National football team: http://www.karaiskaki.gr/hellas_gr.asp. Even more information about the facility is here: http://www.karaiskaki.gr/events_gr.asp

Kaftanzoglio Stadium in Thessaloniki is the home pitch for Iraklis FC in the Greek Super League: http://www.iraklis-fc.gr/swift.jsp?CMCCode=0202&extLang= and http://www.kaftanzoglio.gr/activities2.html. Last year, it was also the temporary home field of FC Apollon Kalamarias, another football team in the Greek Super League, whose original stadium is under reconstruction - http://www.apollonkalamariasfc.gr/pae/agon...storia-2007.htm.

The Pancretan Stadium in Iraklion is the home pitch for OFI FC and Ergotelis FC in the Greek Super League: http://www.ofi.gr/game.aspx?game_id=185, http://www.stadia.gr/pankritio/pankritio-gr.html, http://www.ergotelis.gr/ergotelis/frontend...amp;option=form. It also held the Greek Cup final in 2006.

The Panthessaliko Stadium in Volos will be the main stadium for the Mediterranean Games of 2013 (http://www.medgames.net/) and hosted the Greek Cup final in 2007 and has held local football games, track meets, concerts and conventions. Is also the home field for Niki Volou in Greece's second football division. http://www.e-tipos.com/newsitem?id=47588

The Panpeloponisiako Stadium in Patra held the Greek Cup final in 2005, held the Greek football All-Star Game in 2008, and has held local football games, track meets, concerts and conventions and recently also held an international friendly match with the Greek National football team. It is also the home field for Panahaiki in Greece's third division. http://www.panachaiki.gr/site/index.php?op...9&Itemid=66, http://www.e-tipos.com/newsitem?id=47588

The Faliron Complex has become the Athens International Convention Center, and has hosted, amongst other things, concerts by Morrissey, Isaac Hayes, Antonis Remos (popular Greek singer), political gatherings, trade shows like the Athens Audio Visual Show, and performances such as "Peter Pan on Ice":

http://www.olympicproperties.gr/contents_gr.asp?id=265
http://www.i-stores.gr/index.php?option=co...d=2&lang=gr
http://siteseein.gr/2006/11/morrissey.html
http://www.myday.gr/_NEA/PREVIEW_newS.asp?...p;category_id=5
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=...5CEc8x5YFRNxyvQ
http://www.e-tipos.com/newsitem?id=47588

The Goudi Olympic Complex has become the Badminton Theater, one of Athens' most modern theaters and concert halls. It will be hosting West Side Story in September, and has hosted numerous theatrical productions, including Mamma Mia. http://www.badmintontheater.gr/

The Beach Volleyball Stadium has held concerts, and has recently been turned over to a private company, S.K. Pazaropoulos, which plans to turn it into a 21st-Century version of Athens' historic "Lycabettus" theater. http://www.e-tipos.com/newsitem?id=47588. It is under conversion and is scheduled to be completed by 2009. Here is one event that was held in the stadium after 2004: http://www.olympicproperties.gr/events_gr....e=27&id=295.

The Olympic fencing hall in Peristeri has been partially converted, featuring a football pitch and hosting gymnastics competitions. http://www.e-tipos.com/newsitem?id=47588

Agios Kosmas Sailing Marina: has been turned over to the private company Seirios A.E. and will be turned into a world-class marina (with room for close to a thousand yachts), and will be part of Athens' revitalized waterfront, which also includes a new theater, library and concert hall that will be designed by world-renowned architect Renzo Piano: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=muse, http://www.olympicproperties.gr/contents_gr.asp?id=317

Athens Main Press Centre (MPC): has been converted to the new headquarters of the Greek Ministry of Health and Social Welfare, and the amphitheater contained within has hosted numerous ceremonies and public events: http://www.olympicproperties.gr/contents_gr.asp?id=256, http://fe-mail.gr/pages/posts/greece_europ...e_world2293.php

International Broadcast Center (IBC): has been turned over to a private corporation, Lambda Development, which is turning it into a shopping mall and retail center which will be known as the "Golden Hall," with 146 retail spaces. Part of the IBC will become the Greek Olympic Museum and the International Museum of Classic Athletics. http://www.lamda-development.net/online/Pr...mp;PageCounts=1

Olympic Weightlifting Hall in Nikaia: has hosted fencing competitions since the Olympics, however, it has now been turned over to the University of Piraeus, which it will use for lecture halls and classroom space: http://www.unipi.gr/anak-ekd.php?prkaID=1279

Markopoulo Shooting Range: has been turned over to the Hellenic Police Force, and will be the site of its police training academy and the headquarters of the Special Forces division of the Hellenic Police. http://www.olympicproperties.gr/contents_gr.asp?id=317 and http://www.olympicproperties.gr/contents_gr.asp?id=258

Olympic Rowing Center in Shoinias: is part of the Shoinias National Park, and is one of only three FISA approved training centers in the world, the other two being in Munich and Seville. http://www.olympicproperties.gr/contents_gr.asp?id=317. The 2008 FISA European Rowing Championships will be taking place here in just a few weeks, 18-21 September: http://www.worldrowing.com/display/modules...p?eventid=35081. Though this facility did indeed lie unused for a while, it has been completely reconstructed by the Germany company Hochtief, and is in full use today. http://www.e-tipos.com/newsitem?id=47588

Olympic Equestrian Center, Markopoulo: Is now the headquarters of the Greek Equestrian Federation, as well as Greece's Horse Racing competitions (which relocated from an old facility in Faliron after the Olympic Games). A European Equestrian Competition was held here from July 9-13, 2008: http://www.hunterjumpernews.com/?p=5148. Here are some domestic events that have taken place there this year: http://www.olympicproperties.gr/events_gr....e=18&id=312

Ano Liosia Olympic Hall: has been leased out for various uses over the years, including the filming of the Greek version of the Reality TV show "So You Think You Can Dance." According to this article (http://www.e-tipos.com/newsitem?id=47588), the facility is in excellent shape. In September 2009, it will become home to Greece's new Academy of Culture and the National Digital Archive. http://www.olympicproperties.gr/contents_gr.asp?id=266

Olympic village: 2,292 apartments were sold to low-income individuals and today the village is home to over 8,000 residents. It is suffering from some problems, most notably lack of frequent public transportation, but it is fully in use and was turned over to residents immediately after the end of the 2004 Olympics. http://www.e-tipos.com/newsitem?id=47588

Galatsi Olympic Hall: After the Olympics, this was the home court of AEK BC in Basketball. http://www.stadia.gr/galatsi/galatsi-gr.html. AEK has since moved back to the OAKA complex (its home court before 2004) and the hall has been turned over to a private consortium, Acropol Haragionis AE and Sonae Sierra SGPS S.A. It is now being converted to a shopping mall and entertainment complex, scheduled to reopen in 2009. http://www.olympicproperties.gr/contents_gr.asp?id=253

And again, this is just how the Athletic facilities have been used. In the leadup to the Athens games, numerous huge public works projects took place that transformed the city of Athens and the quality of life of its residents and visitors alike. Quite conveniently, your article mentioned NONE of these improvements:

Athens Metro: Used to be comprised by one line, the "ilektrikos" running north-south from Piraeus to the northern suburbs of Athens. The ISAP was completely revitalized before the games, and two new Metro lines were added to it, in time for the 2004 Olympics. However, the metro continues to expand to this day, with the planned addition of a new line and further expansions of existing lines, with some metro stations having been completed in the past few years and added into service. More information here: http://www.ametro.gr/page/default.asp?la=2&id=7 and photos of this project, including the spectacular stations (which resemble museums more than train stations) here: http://www.ametro.gr/page/default.asp?la=2&id=14

Tram: Completed just before the Olympics, the tram continues to be a vital part of the transportation network of Athens, connecting regions that do not have Metro service to the city center and the port of Piraeus. http://www.tramsa.gr, http://www.tramsa.gr/map/googlemapstram.html. The tram was recently expanded to the southern suburb of Voula, and there are other planned expansions, including 11 new stations in Piraeus: http://www.tramsa.gr/html/gr/diadromes.php?id=4.

Proastikos: The suburban railway connects the City of Athens with the new international airport, the northern coast of the Peloponese and cities like Korinthos, and is under expansion to reach cities like Kiato and Halkida. http://proastiakos.gr/en/ and http://proastiakos.gr/en/?getwhat=1&oi...;id=&tid=53

Athens International Airport "Eleftherios Venizelos": Completed in 2001, it is an ultra-modern airport near the town of Spata, outside of Athens, which replaced the old and outdated airport at Hellinikon. Earlier this year, the airport welcomed its 100 millionth passenger. It has won numerous awards, including "best airport in Southern Europe" in 2005 and 2006, European Airport of the Year in 2004 and Green building of the year in 2008 (for its environmentally friendly design). It is also one of only a few airports that is capable of accommodating the new Airbus A380. In the years since the Olympic games, numerous new airlines have begun routes to Athens, including US Airways, Continental Airlines, Air China, and Aer Lingus, and the amount of passengers handled has increased in each year since starting its operations. There are plans to expand the airport's capacity and a convention center is being built at the airport as well.

http://www.aia.gr
http://www.worldairportawards.com/Awards-2...ResultsFull.htm
http://www.aia.gr/entry.asp?pageid=741&amp...amp;entryId=232

Attiki Odos: a new motorway, completed in 2004, linking initially the new Athens International Airport with the city and outlying regions like Elefsina, connecting it to Greece's main national motorways heading south from Athens to Peloponissos (Korinthos, Patra, etc.) and north to Thessaloniki. It acts as a ring road around the city, diverting traffic away from the city center and helping to reduce traffic and pollution. Plans were recently announced to expand the Attiki Odos south within the city of Athens, to the southern suburb of Vouliagmeni, and to Athens' secondary port town of Rafina and the industrial town of Lavrio. http://www.express.gr/news/politics/35654o...8060335654.php3, http://www.aodos.gr

Converting Athens' historical center to a pedestrianized zone: The main historical sights of central Athens, including the Acropolis, the Ancient Agora, the Kalimarmaron Stadium (site of the original Olympic games), etc. were all connected and made easy for pedestrians to access, as roads that were previously open to traffic were closed off and converted to pedestrian walkways. There are plans to expand the pedestrian walkways to other parts of central Athens, including the main throughfare of Athinas Avenue, which travels north from Monastiraki (just below the Acropolis) to Omonia Square in the heart of Athens. http://www.minenv.gr/4/44/4401/440102/4401...4401020202.html, http://news.kathimerini.gr/4dcgi/_w_articl.../08/2008_282400, http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_artic...6/08/2008_99833, http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_artic...8/01/2002_12350

It is important to note that I am not blindly drinking the Athens kool-aid. There were delays in the usage of some of the Olympic facilities after the games, and some of them are currently not in use because they are in the process of being converted or awaiting final building permits to begin development works. But it is important to note that most facilities ARE in use, and those are not are all slated for redevelopment or are under redevelopment and are close to completion (and many of them were used for various purposes since 2004 as well).

It is also important to note that the improvements and works that took place in Athens did not merely consist of the construction of new sporting facilities, but also all of the infrastructure works mentioned above, all of which are in use in Athens 24-7-365. These projects have all had a tangible effect on the improvement of the city's quality of life, and just as importantly, these projects were not a fleeting, once-in-a-lifetime moment for Athens. As proven by the continued expansion of the metro, rail, tram, highway, etc. systems, these are projects that have set in motion continued and further improvements in the quality of life and the quality of infrastructure in Athens, which the city will benefit from for decades to come.

The Greek press has been covering the issue of the redevelopment of the Olympic Properties quite thoroughly, including in some of the articles I linked to in my letter. While there has been criticism for the slow pace of the conversion of some of the properties, that coverage has been balanced with coverage of all the facilities that are in use and the facilities which have been successfully converted, as well as those that are under redevelopment at this moment. The international press seems to have lifted the criticism and has ignored ALL of the MANY positives that have taken place. Of course, this does not surprise me, judging by the attacks Athens and Greece continually faced before the 2004 games, which all proved to be unfounded in the end.

It amazes me that I was able to perform research that these so-called "journalists" *should* have performed before taking the liberty to write such inaccurate and slanderous articles of Athens. Websites such as www.olympicproperties.gr go into great detail over the usage of the Olympic facilities, and many of the facilities, from the OAKA to the Badminton Theater, have their own websites.

Perhaps your "journalists" should be a bit more responsible next time, and do their homework before writing such inaccurate pieces and slandering an entire country in the process.

***********

Just like I said in my letter, and just as has been said by many other forumers here, the post-Olympics handling by the Greek government has not been perfect. There have been delays, there have been periods where some of the facilities indeed were not in use. However, there was never a time where "most" of them were not in use, and it seems that there is a plan in the works for every facility. Some have already been successfully converted, some have been turned over to private industry, and I think it is fair to give some time to the ones that will be redeveloped to see what will happen.

Greece is not a country that has the resources of the United States or Britain or China, so it is not surprising to me that not everything was utilized immediately after the games, however, a lot of progress seems to have been made, and I really was impressed with such facilities as the Badminton Theater, which I did not even know about until doing some research on this issue!

The thing that continues to disappoint me, however, is that the international press is "picking and choosing" what it is reporting, exaggerating the negative aspects and ignoring, sometimes completely, the many positives that have arisen from the games. Not one of these articles has discussed any of the infrastructure works that have taken place in Athens, and I don't think that is an accident. But once again, I am not surprised to see the international press, and primarily the British press, treat Athens and Greece in such a manner. It continues today with political and foreign policy issues, and it was continuous in the days, weeks, months and years leading up to the 2004 Olympics. And...I get the feeling that, by putting a city like Athens down, it is an attempt to play up London's hosting of the games from now, when it is far too early to tell whether or not their hosting of the games will be successful.

Now lock the thread.

@Mo: I wouldn't say that it is only 1 or 2 stadiums either. There are venues that really haven't gotten much (if any) use after the games, and that certainly is a problem. Many of the plans outlined in the quote above mine have not been realised yet.

All I am saying is that the situation isn't as bad as one would believe after reading a handful of news articles.

@Mo: I wouldn't say that it is only 1 or 2 stadiums either. There are venues that really haven't gotten much (if any) use after the games, and that certainly is a problem. Many of the plans outlined in the quote above mine have not been realised yet.

All I am saying is that the situation isn't as bad as one would believe after reading a handful of news articles.

I know that and if I'm allowed, will continue my questions.
The Sailing Marina probably has the best potential to be be a real success. It certainly looked fantastic during the Games and the private company would certainly maintain and promote the venue.

Who is responsible for the maintenance of venues e.g. Olympic Village/Sailing Marina. Many of them for a few months after the Games, although not in use, were not maintained? Is is the state or the city?

In Sydney it has been a massive burden. The main venue at Homebush loses money and would be better sense to have it demolished. Attendances for rugby internationals and NRL have actually decreased. The ARU wants to move internationals back to the Sydney Football Stadium because of the lack of atmosphere.


See this is the problem with having the 'unofficial' national stadium in the city with the most fairweather fans. Sydney have the laziest fans in the country. Thank god Australia's national teams spread their games around the country. That being said, the Australian Wallabies (Rugby Union) and NSW State of Origin (Rugby League) pull great crowds, its just that International Rugby League is a joke so they are better off back at the Sydney Football stadium and in regional areas. The NRL teams lack the consistant support to pull large enough crowds to ANZ stadium to create a decent atmosphere (not much fun with 15000 people in a stadium that hold 83500), again I blame the Sydney fans.

Acer Arena, the Sydney Olympics Gymnastics Arena doesn't have a sporting tenant but is one of the busiest arenas in the world with concerts and exhibitions etc.

Many of the Sydney olymic park venues are now part of the new Sydney show grounds where they are exhibition space for the annual Royal Agracultural Show (A large state fair) which each Australian State hosts at their own 'show ground'.

The Baseball stadium which is now the central arena for the Sydney show ground has hosted National Rugby League club the Canterbury Bulldogs for a few seasons and now looks like it may be converted into an Australian Football Stadium for the planned West Sydney team.

As for an older Olympics. the Melbourne Cricket Ground is a national icon and would be recognised by many Australians as the proper choice for 'National Stadium' if Australia formally had one. Been totally rebuilt scince the 1956 games. Still has a capacity of over 100 000 and continues to be one of the busiest stadiums in the world.

The old warm up track to the MCG for the 1956 games is know as Olympic park. Truely showing its age, it is home to Victorian Athletics and the National Rugby Leagues Melbourne Storm. It has hosted soccer and rugby union thoughout its history as well, being home to many soccer teams over the years.

The old 1956 swimming pool still remains as a icon of Australian Modernist architecture, it is nicknamed the Glasshouse by most. In the 70's is was converted into an arena for concerts and basketball (not unlike the Wembley Arena) and played host to Melbournes National Basketball League teams til the last one left in the mid 90's. The Glasshouse has been tranformed into the training and administrative home of the Australian Football League club the Collingwood Magpies and has a naming right sponsor so is currently know as the Lexus Centre.

I know that and if I'm allowed, will continue my questions.
The Sailing Marina probably has the best potential to be be a real success. It certainly looked fantastic during the Games and the private company would certainly maintain and promote the venue.

Who is responsible for the maintenance of venues e.g. Olympic Village/Sailing Marina. Many of them for a few months after the Games, although not in use, were not maintained? Is is the state or the city?
It's a public forum, you're allowed to do whatever you want.:)

From what I know (and have read in articles including the post rei made about the Olympic venues) the Marina is being turned into a private luxury marina. As for the Olympic village, it has been totally turned into housing. The only problem is that it is very far from the rest of Athens (not easy to get to and from).

It's a public forum, you're allowed to do whatever you want.:)

From what I know (and have read in articles including the post rei made about the Olympic venues) the Marina is being turned into a private luxury marina. As for the Olympic village, it has been totally turned into housing. The only problem is that it is very far from the rest of Athens (not easy to get to and from).

So who is responsible for maintenance of the venues owned by the public?

Most?

Most were not there before the Games...

Most of the major were already inplace before the games: Olympic stadium, Peace and friendship Stadium, Karaiskaki stadium, Kalimarmaro stadium, velodrome, Olympic indoor arena, Swimming pools etc. Except if you think that major main stadia means tae Kwo ndo and badminton stadiums..

2004 Athens, Olympic Press Center:

http://www.restaurant.com.gr/Images_PressCenter/20081128/mall.jpg http://www.serme.it/imgbank/ZOOM/news/meroni_ibc_building.jpg http://www.themirl.com/images/IBC.JPG



and 2009, Golden Hall Mall, the most luxurious in SE Europe so far:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3246/3132203077_38c8b0c577_b.jpg
http://www.xblog.gr/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/golden-hall.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3282/3065815940_e65e440855_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3031/3064984793_c537db6f96_b.jpg

Tennis stadiums in 2004 now are the home of Athens Tennis Academy.

2004, Tennis stadium:

http://www.abc.net.au/olympics/2004/galleries/venues2/images/01_tennis_air.jpg

2009, Academy:

http://www.athenstennisacademy.gr/images/gallery/facilities/11.jpg http://www.athenstennisacademy.gr/images/gallery/vip/11.gif http://www.athenstennisacademy.gr/images/gallery/vip/17.gif

Badminton stadium became the famous for its size Badminton theater. A badminton stadium in Athens would be absolutely useless:

2004 Badminton Stadium:

http://paulandjenn.net/badminton.jpg


2009 "Badminton Theater":

http://www.badmintontheater.gr/images/theater/5599.jpg
http://www.badmintontheater.gr/images/theater/5555.jpg
http://www.badmintontheater.gr/images/theater/5520.jpg
http://www.ticketnet.gr/images/badminton/images_BadmintonTheaterStage.jpg

Don't get edgy. Most means majority not major.
By most I mean venues for:

Baseball
Softball
Hockey
Sailing
Equestrian
Rowing
Tennis
Fencing
Badminton/Gymnastics
Beach Volleyball
Shooting
Football
.....etc.

That said, the Badminton Theater looks good.

Don't get edgy. Most means majority not major.
By most I mean venues for:

Baseball
Softball
Hockey
Sailing
Equestrian
Rowing
Tennis
Fencing
Badminton/Gymnastics
Beach Volleyball
Shooting
Football
.....etc.

That said, the Badminton Theater looks good.

I dont know any olympic city that had already all these sports venues built before the games and I wonder why Athens should.

I dont know any olympic city that had already all these sports venues built before the games and I wonder why Athens should.

never mind.

^^ The point is that most of those venues were not needed in Athens, and why should they do in the first place? Converted into totally different uses is logical. And its the case of any Olympic city.

True some venues were not in use for some time and action delayed for some of them. But as this thread shows, all the large and expensive venues see good use, and the rest of the infrastructure was/is absorbed for the city uses.

Athens is a city with its problems, problems we live and hear every day. But I have never seen or heard anything so bad about the Olympics, and we, all the citizens of Athens will surely agree that Athens 2004 brought only good for this city.

As I said, never mind.

I'll discuss the venues with Zorba. For the sake of this thread.

Athens Badminton Theatre looks wonderful. What is its capacity?

The official site says 2.500

Having read the comments about Homebush I actual have to agree with Bob, the stadium is to big and only fills a maximum of three times a year (State of Origin and a rugby international or two).

There is simply no team that can get anywhere near the capacity of Telstra / ANZ / (insert tacky sponsor name here) stadium. The place is in the middle of a wasteland and the whole park is sterile and has about the same amount of atmosphere as a Leyton Orient home game

oops

@ some new greek forumers:Guys please ignore Mo Rush, he is a well known hater of Athens games and he was bashing even before the 2004 olympics, recreating all the miserable lies Murdoch press & co. were publishing.
He is among the sore haters that were heavily bittered by the success of the Athens organisation and even know, 5 years later he does not hesitate to demonstrate his complexes.
I mean, "who's responsible for the maintenance of the Olympic marina?" WTF????
Dude, I've been there myself and I know by first hand what's happening there, but guess what, I WONT TELL YA! Go find a Murdoch press article to find out and ridicule yourself more!!!!

Mo's asking sensible questions; he's certainly not a troll. If YOU WON'T TELL 'IM the answers that's your problem.

Mo's asking sensible questions; he's certainly not a troll. If YOU WON'T TELL 'IM the answers that's your problem.

My friend "sensible questions" is one thing, empathy is another.I suggest you read what other friends have posted about post-olympic Athens, to find out that despite the poor management of the post 2004 conservative government in Greece, most venues are been exploited to their best potential in a way even the ever-whining greeks (like myself!) could find at least satisfactory. You won't find any white elephant in post olympic Athens, only arguments about a couple of misused or under-used minor sites and a sensible amount of "abandoned" potential mainly in public infrastructure matters. But the latter are issues that could 've existed anyway, given the short-sighted management of many of our politicians.

Is that badminton Theatre a regular theatre or is it a theatre used for badminton matches?

How on earth could someone claim that places like OAKA, SEF and Heliniko are white elephants when those places are some of the most used arenas in Europe? PAO and Maroussi play sometimes up to 4 games per week in OAKA. Olympiacos uses SEF in same way and Panionios uses Heliniko... find me any other city in Europe (or world) that has 3 top clubs using 3 different high capacity and high quality arenas in such amount. Can't find it? Ye.. just what i tought.

Football stadium? Its used by PAO and AEK as their home stadium FFS. Does that even need an explanation?

This is just absurd...

Did that ignorant sad little reporter even check any data or he was just writing out of his ass?

Mo's asking sensible questions; he's certainly not a troll. If YOU WON'T TELL 'IM the answers that's your problem.

Don't bother.

How on earth could someone claim that places like OAKA, SEF and Heliniko are w

This is just absurd...

Did that ignorant sad little reporter even check any data or he was just writing out of his ass?

Exactly. hence my questions regarding maintenance.
Perhaps venues have a few weeds outside or the pool is not perfectly clean.
Perhaps he is confused between the need for maintenance and the actual use of the venue.

OMG sorry Mo Rush we misunderstood your good intentions. You worry so much about Athens Olympic venues, we might even see you hunting down the rust off the Calatrava's roof, with a bucket of white paint in your hand!:banana::banana::banana:

http://www.anti-slip-paint.co.uk/images/rust_buster.jpg

OMG sorry Mo Rush we misunderstood your good intentions. You worry so much about Athens Olympic venues, we might even see you hunting down the rust off the Calatrava's roof, with a bucket of white paint in your hand!:banana::banana::banana:

http://www.anti-slip-paint.co.uk/images/rust_buster.jpg

Welcome to the ignore function.

here's a nice article from this week's edition of Sports Illustrated about the legacy left behind by the Beijing Olympics one year after.

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1158404/index.htm

Olympic Legacy is an interesting topic, as it is so different for each city with different needs. E.G zero hockey interest/tradition is somewhere like Athens, or Atlanta building an olympic stadium shaped like a Baseball diamond.

It's a shame the thread turned to shit.

P.S @ Mo, as to the original article, The Evening Standard are not really a trustworthy source, they probably still think there are WMDs in Iraq .... I was in London at the time, and IMO the ES were among the chief war-mongers with little interest in facts.

The thread turned like that cause its creation was provocative and aimed at a specific target due to the personal grudges of a member, who never the less got his answer.

I would say Munich is the prototype how to do it after the games, it was probably the most successful in using the venues afterwards: Not only that the Olympiapark is a landmark for the city, its still used for sport events (although the football clubs moved to the new arena), concerts and all other kinds of events. The Olympic village used to be a student residence for a long time.

I think the conclusion to be drawn here is that there is no such thing as a perfect Olympic legacy in which every single venue is used regularly after the games. Hosting the Olympics involves catering to such a large number of sports and building the venues to stage them that it would be almost impossible to find long term use for them all. The best that any one can do is find uses for as much as they can. I agree that many of the venues could/should be temporary even for fairly high-profile sports like equestrian and swimming (who needs a 20,000 seat swimming pool most of the time?). It's asking a lot to find enough well supported sports teams and events in one city to fill every single venue.

Athens has done the best it can to utilise its venues. The main sports in Greece are football and basketball and unfortunately neither of them require an outdoor beach-volleyball stadium or a diving pool.

The fact is that most Olympic sports are 'minority' sports that have very small supporter bases and finding something to put in, say, the fencing venue must be a challenge to any organiser.

I think that British media outlets like this are being overly confident that they wont fall under the same scrutiny come 2013.

London is being very careful to make sure that there is a use for the venues after the Games - probably planning better than any host city previously. While the Main Stadium plan to reduce the capacity from 80000 to 25000 after the Games has been ridiculed by some, I think its a genius plan that future host cities will look to use as a serious strategy when proposing Games venues.

Sydney was smart to incorporate the Showgrounds into Sydney Olympic Park, giving good long term use to alot of indoor venues (RAS Dome & Pavilions, Olympic Media Centre buildings) that if no legacy were planned, would be seen to be white elephants now. Acer Arena is used very regularly, the Aquatic Centre also, the Tennis Centre serves its purpose and the Hockey Centre made good use of temporary seats during the Games that it has not become a liability. Even so, Sydney Olympic Park is still suffering an identity crisis 9 years later. It is in a detached part of Sydney, not on the main suburban rail line and usually only full of people at Easter and Grand Final time. But in a nutshell, Sydney gained some much needed sports infrastructure that it wouldn't have seen even half of by now if the city hadn't won the Games.

From what I've seen, Athens isn't doing too badly. While legacy was not foremost in their mind when building the venues, they have caught up alot and many venues are used regularly 5 years later and the rest will come back into line.

There is too much emphasis from some quarters that architectural beauty is being set aside for functionality in Olympic venues. It's smart economics to avoid building an olympic venue just to be aesthetically pleasing. The London 2012 venues would appear to have form and function. We'll find out in 2013 if they got it right.

I think that's why it pays to build a large Convention/Exhibition Centre before you even bid for the olympic games if you don't already have one. That kind of facility can be split into numerous minor indoor arenas for all of the minor sports like Fencing, Judo, Table Tennis, Badminton, Taekwondo and Wrestling.

I can only imagine how much more expensive Sydney 2000 would have been if they didn't already have the facilities at Darling Harbour.

Its just important to start plannning for legacy from day 1 and to be smart about it.
Pump money into venues already in place that perhaps only need temporary works.

Use a cricket field for archery,don't build a weighlifting arena in a neighbourhood hoping it solves problems, build temporary venues where the cost is justified.

Even in China where Beijing just held the country's first Olympics and needs the facilities, the question of future use has popped up and the National Stadium (Bird's Nest) is likely going to be under-used in the long term. Perhaps the strategy should change whereby the IOC looks at using existing facilities and converting them for the Olympics instead.

Even in China where Beijing just held the country's first Olympics and needs the facilities, the question of future use has popped up and the National Stadium (Bird's Nest) is likely going to be under-used in the long term. Perhaps the strategy should change whereby the IOC looks at using existing facilities and converting them for the Olympics instead.

Yea but I do remember forum members bashing Athens for using an old stadium as a base of conversion to the new olympic. Oh and yes, all the OAKA complex was build in the 80s and 90s and guess what? It became the main Olympic venue center.... I guess even London could learn something from this extrordinary use of resourses that although was the best ever in Olympic history, everyone chooses to omit.....:ohno::ohno::ohno:

Yea but I do remember forum members bashing Athens for using an old stadium as a base of conversion to the new olympic.

It doesn’t matter what forum members think. We are of virtually no importance.

Their b!tching had no effect on those wonderful two weeks in 2004.

I really worry that hosting the olympics has simply become too expensive. London does not have a convincing legacy strategy and the white elephants that litter previous olympic sites demonstrate that it is exceptionally hard to find a meaningful use for such large venues. I wonder if we will reach a stage where we the olympics will rotate between three or four existing sites and the money saved can be ploughed back into sports development.

The legacy strategy is a work in progress but I don't think anyone can claim what we'll be left with won't be a huge improvement on the industrial mess and wasteland that was there before. A brand new park the size of Hyde Park for starters.

The legacy strategy is a work in progress but I don't think anyone can claim what we'll be left with won't be a huge improvement on the industrial mess and wasteland that was there before. A brand new park the size of Hyde Park for starters.

The problem is that the legacy strategy should have been developed three years ago before the facilities were designed. In this way the legacy would be built into the design from the start. As it stands they will just have to make the best of a bad job. And £9 billion for a park!

I said "for starters". Besides which, the current spend is more like £7.5bn

The legacy, in terms of archietecture, was built into the design from the start. The stadium is 2/3rds temporary, the aquatics centre likewise will have most of its capacity reduced after the games. The village will be housing and the IBC/MBC is modular and, although aestetically unspectacular, is quite flexible in terms of what it'll be able to house after games. The road networks, bridges etc. are essential and the cleaning up/widening of the river is a great thing. The biggest bridges in the park are also partially temporary precisly because leagacy was built in from the start!

The current head of the legacy team believes the current plan is 80% very good. So whilst I said it was a work in progress, I didn't mean it hadn't been thought about at all, just that the details are being worked out.

I think that's why it pays to build a large Convention/Exhibition Centre before you even bid for the olympic games if you don't already have one. That kind of facility can be split into numerous minor indoor arenas for all of the minor sports like Fencing, Judo, Table Tennis, Badminton, Taekwondo and Wrestling.

I can only imagine how much more expensive Sydney 2000 would have been if they didn't already have the facilities at Darling Harbour.


Atlanta used the Georgia World Congress Center (4th largest convention center in the U.S.) for fencing, judo, weighlifting, handball, table tennis, and wrestling.

Previously built venues were used for several events, like boxing, basketball, baseball, gymnastics, volleyball, badminton, shooting, and soccer...the Georgia Dome, the Omni, Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium, Stegeman Coliseum, Forbes Arena, Alexander Coliseum, Sanford Stadium, Georgia State University arena, and Morris Brown/Clark Atlanta University stadiums.

A temporary velodrome was set up for cycling. A similar temporary venue was set up for archery in the same area.

The swimming/diving venue was converted to the Georgia Tech Sudent Athletic Center after the Olympics. Olympic Stadium was converted to Turner Field for use by the Atlanta Braves of MLB.

Georgia International Horse Park is still widely used for equestrian events, concerts, etc.

The only "unsuccessful" post-Olympic venues in Atlanta were the tennis complex and the beach volleyball venue. Both have since been reconfigured for other uses.

Conclusion: Atlanta's Olympic venues have been a definite benefit to the city.

Some venues end up sitting virtually empty. Canada has certainly benefitted tremendously from Olympic facilities in Calgary, however. Those facilities became the nexus of a successful national winter sports system that has elevated Canada from an 'also ran' to a winter sports power house.

Canada's stated goal is to finish a top the medal table at the next Olympics in 2010. Such talk would have been inconceivable 15-20 years ago. There's hope that landing a summer Olympics in Toronto will have similar benefits for Canada. There is a serious lack of sports facilities in a province that represents 43% of the national population. An Olympics would correct that infrastructure deficiency.

Some venues end up sitting virtually empty. Canada has certainly benefitted tremendously from Olympic facilities in Calgary, however. Those facilities became the nexus of a successful national winter sports system that has elevated Canada from an 'also ran' to a winter sports power house.

Canada's stated goal is to finish a top the medal table at the next Olympics in 2010. Such talk would have been inconceivable 15-20 years ago. There's hope that landing a summer Olympics in Toronto will have similar benefits for Canada. There is a serious lack of sports facilities in a province that represents 43% of the national population. An Olympics would correct that infrastructure deficiency.


I think that the Olympic venue issue and its burden on the host city is usually more of a Summer Olympics thing. Winter Olympics are usually held in smaller towns rather than larger cities...with a few obvious exceptions such as Calgary, Sarajevo, Salt Lake City, and Oslo - and in 2010 Vancouver.

Summer Olympics cities are often stuck with a huge athletics arena that becomes little-used and a financial burden.

Even in China where Beijing just held the country's first Olympics and needs the facilities, the question of future use has popped up and the National Stadium (Bird's Nest) is likely going to be under-used in the long term. Perhaps the strategy should change whereby the IOC looks at using existing facilities and converting them for the Olympics instead.

In essence I agree, or they could award the games to cities with real potential to use the venues on a regular basis (spectator sport national leagues or conversion to community sports centers). If you build an 80,000 seater in a country where there is not much of a mass sport culture, you will surely face a white elephant problem. I personally think a fantastic solution is to pass the facilities to colleges, because they have a steady supply of sportsmen and do not limit the use to a handful of professional athletes.

In essence I agree, or they could award the games to cities with real potential to use the venues on a regular basis (spectator sport national leagues or conversion to community sports centers). If you build an 80,000 seater in a country where there is not much of a mass sport culture, you will surely face a white elephant problem. I personally think a fantastic solution is to pass the facilities to colleges, because they have a steady supply of sportsmen and do not limit the use to a handful of professional athletes.

Yes - re-use is very important, which is why I think the Olympic Park-style development model has got to go. Put these facilities in communities, albeit in close proximity to each other, or fill in all those big spaces after the Games with housing. Make neighbourhoods out of them, and voila!

I think that the Olympic venue issue and its burden on the host city is usually more of a Summer Olympics thing. Winter Olympics are usually held in smaller towns rather than larger cities...with a few obvious exceptions such as Calgary, Sarajevo, Salt Lake City, and Oslo - and in 2010 Vancouver.

Summer Olympics cities are often stuck with a huge athletics arena that becomes little-used and a financial burden.

I'd argue that the burden is rather equal if not more troublesome in winter Olympic host cities. Winter Olympic host cities tend to be smaller so it's more difficult to find uses for lavish facilities with large seating capacities.

You're correct that it really depends on each individual city as the set of circumstances are unique to each. Usually the most problematic is the stadium used for an opening and closing ceremony.

What is Albertville going to do with a stadium that holds more people than live in the town? What is a potential city like Toronto going to do with a 80,000 seat stadium with an athletics track? Toronto can't even fill the stadium it has now and it only seats 53,000.

Athletics tracks? There may be events scheduled there, but they would only need 5,000 - 10,000 seats. If Toronto landed a major event, it might sell out, but that would be one major athletics event in perhaps its entire life after an Olympics. A similar situation exists in almost every summer Olympics athletics stadium. Only in Europe do athletics stadiums get used more often for athletics.

In north America they will not get used. The only solution is to lower the field, get rid of the track, and build more seats down to the new field. This has been done in a number of instances.

I'd argue that the burden is rather equal if not more troublesome in winter Olympic host cities. Winter Olympic host cities tend to be smaller so it's more difficult to find uses for lavish facilities with large seating capacities.

You're correct that it really depends on each individual city as the set of circumstances are unique to each. Usually the most problematic is the stadium used for an opening and closing ceremony.

What is Albertville going to do with a stadium that holds more people than live in the town? What is a potential city like Toronto going to do with a 80,000 seat stadium with an athletics track? Toronto can't even fill the stadium it has now and it only seats 53,000.

Athletics tracks? There may be events scheduled there, but they would only need 5,000 - 10,000 seats. If Toronto landed a major event, it might sell out, but that would be one major athletics event in perhaps its entire life after an Olympics. A similar situation exists in almost every summer Olympics athletics stadium. Only in Europe do athletics stadiums get used more often for athletics.

In north America they will not get used. The only solution is to lower the field, get rid of the track, and build more seats down to the new field. This has been done in a number of instances.


That's why Atlanta built Olympic Stadium so that it could easily be converted to a baseball stadium and be well-used for many years to come. The stadium received a good bit of unwarranted criticism, but it was really a very intelligent move.

Some venues end up sitting virtually empty. Canada has certainly benefitted tremendously from Olympic facilities in Calgary, however. Those facilities became the nexus of a successful national winter sports system that has elevated Canada from an 'also ran' to a winter sports power house.

Canada's stated goal is to finish a top the medal table at the next Olympics in 2010. Such talk would have been inconceivable 15-20 years ago. There's hope that landing a summer Olympics in Toronto will have similar benefits for Canada. There is a serious lack of sports facilities in a province that represents 43% of the national population. An Olympics would correct that infrastructure deficiency.


"OFF ALL THE COUNTRIES CANADA HAS LITL RIGHT SPEAK OF BURDEN/ECONOMICS CONSIDERING THEIR IMPECCABLE TRACK RECORD"
i. Montreal 76 - Big Embarassment for teh Olympic Movement incomplete venues and Debt for decades to come.
ii. Vancouver 94 CWG - Tempoarary Venues even lesser std than Indian/Chinese National Games Main Stadiums
I dont know much about the Winter Games but time will tell Canda's tryst with tragedy after 2010.http://www.34thnationalgamesjharkhand.in/ng/events/images/athletics_stadium.jpg
http://english.shandongbusiness.gov.cn/public/zhuanti/shandong/pic/pic30.jpg

^^ Wrong! If anything, Canadians have experience with both benefit and burden when it comes to Olympic venues, wouldn't you say? I'd rather listen to people who have some experience with both than someone with experience with neither.

Your logic is completely backwards!

:weird:

I read somewhere that the Olympic Stadium in Beijing has become the second or third most popular venue in the city with tourists. I would imagine that some people are making it a point to come and see it then, which benefits the city financially. So if you build an aesthetically pleasing venue, I suppose it can sustain itself as a major tourist attraction till they find other uses for it...if they find such uses in the end. I wonder if tourists in Athens or Sydney or Atlanta ever wander the Olympic Stadiums?

I read somewhere that the Olympic Stadium in Beijing has become the second or third most popular venue in the city with tourists. I would imagine that some people are making it a point to come and see it then, which benefits the city financially. So if you build an aesthetically pleasing venue, I suppose it can sustain itself as a major tourist attraction till they find other uses for it...if they find such uses in the end. I wonder if tourists in Athens or Sydney or Atlanta ever wander the Olympic Stadiums?

Athens Olympic complex is a state owned sport facility. The main stadium is closed at all times and no visitors are allowed, probably because it is rented by two football teams and thus for security reasons it is guarded, especially during the heavy schedule, during the superleague matches. The same goes for OAKA indoor hall. The swimming facilities are open for public use, for a fee, unless there are swimming events that day, the time schedule is on the website, http://www.oaka.com.gr/default.asp
The Olympic Tennis stadium is open for public use, reservation of a court is also possible, the time schedule is also on the website.

You can reach Olympic Sport complex from anywhere in the city using only one, 1 euro ticket valid or 1.5 hours for all public transport and there is no entrance fee to enter the facility.

I read somewhere that the Olympic Stadium in Beijing has become the second or third most popular venue in the city with tourists. I would imagine that some people are making it a point to come and see it then, which benefits the city financially. So if you build an aesthetically pleasing venue, I suppose it can sustain itself as a major tourist attraction till they find other uses for it...if they find such uses in the end. I wonder if tourists in Athens or Sydney or Atlanta ever wander the Olympic Stadiums?

The stadium in Sydney is still an attraction. The area (Olympic Park) is actually becoming another suburb, with apartment towers, hotels, shops etc. it's not just some dead area.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

It would be cheaper to bulldoze the stadium than to pay the upkeep. But due to the political fallout they keep the Olympic stadium going.

here, Time Magazine did an interesting photostory about Olympic Stadiums.

http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1927333,00.html

http://www.34thnationalgamesjharkhand.in/ng/events/images/athletics_stadium.jpg

This one is really stupid. I mean, sure it looks great in mid-july. But how about the rest of the year?

for me its both a benefit and a burden! :D

here, Time Magazine did an interesting photostory about Olympic Stadiums.

http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1927333,00.html
Not all that great of an article...and Seoul....WTF?..The picture is the Seoul World Cup Stadium which was built for the 2002 WC...It certainly wasnt around in 1988.
As for Sydney,there is no doubt the Sydney Olympic Stadium has been a major benefit for the city.Previously the biggest stadium in Sydney was just 45,000 and at 83,000,it hosts over 50 events per year and sells out around 7-10(incl concerts)...A great asset.

here, Time Magazine did an interesting photostory about Olympic Stadiums.

http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1927333,00.html

"now host to various soccer games."

Hertha Berlin is now "various soccer games"?

Some of my views.

1. Olympic Stadium:
Athletics rarely attracts crowds beyond 20-25,000. Ensure that the venue can reduce its capacity post Olympic Games or ensure that it can be reconfigured suitably to host other sports in demand in the host city. An anchor tenant and venue operator would be ensure a stream of events post Olympic Games and greater potential for revenues. Ideally events at the stadium are not used as revenue generator to offset debts related to construction costs.

Consider a flexible venue e.g. Stade de France, only where the benefit from additional athletic events exceeds the cost of the "movable stands" solution. Other considerations would be the impact on the field of play when the venue moves between athletics and football mode.

Where the venue exists, consider temporary expansions to the required 60,000 seat IOC required capacity.

2. Aquatic Centre
Design venue to ensure that the capacity can be reduced to 2-5,000 in Legacy Mode. Design the roof structure and other structures to accommodate both Games mode and Legacy mode without any major addition costs or design revisions.

The addition of leisure facilties after the Games can contribute to generating revenues. An additional training pool would be able to accommodate leisure aspects while ensuring the competition pool is available for events/elite training as/when required.

3. Indoor Arenas
Maximize the use of existing indoor venues. Where additional venues are required consider temporary venues, only where the cost is lower than the legacy benefit.
The construction of a generic indoor space/venue e.g. a Convention Centre or Exhibition Halls, rather than sports specific venues e.g. weightlifting venue, can benefit the host city both before and After the Games.

Creativity is the key e.g. temporarily covering a football venue/regenerating old warehouses/clustering temporary arenas e.g. Paris 2012

4. Hockey
Use an existing venue, or an existing small-medium sizes football venue.
Where a legacy need exists, construct a permanent venue with limited seating capacity, and extensive athlete amenities and spaces. Consideration could be given to sharing the facility with football, with the second training hockey field for exclusive hockey use.

Where an entirely temporary venue is considered, the cost should be considered.

5. Archery
Construct a temporary venue or use existing venues e.g. cricket stadia, small-medium football stadia/sports field with good proximity to the Athletes accommodation.

6. Sailing
Use and upgrade the facilities of an existing sailing club to ensure post Games legacy. Alternatively, consider the best sailing site outside the host city with experience in hosting national and international sailing events e.g. Valencia. The use of an existing harbour should also be considered.

Where an existing venue is used, the use of temporary structures should be maximized where appropriate with limited permanent seating capacity.

7. Beach Volleyball
Usually ideal to construct a temporary arena at an existing beach or at an iconic host city location.

8. Velodrome
Use an existing velodrome, which may be temporarily covered for the Games.
Where an existing venue is in place, or a new venues is planned, consider options to ensure a multi-purpose sports and events centre e.g. Melbourne Multi-Purpose Venue.

Maximize the use of temporary seating.

9. BMX
Consider a small-medium sized football/athletics venue with existing athlete/media facilities in place. Alternatively construct an entirely temporary venue, possibly near the Cycling(Track) venue, if possible cost reductions exist.

10. Equestrian
Maximize the use of temporary structure or existing park areas.
The use of an existing grand stand and race course track at a racecourse could provide both a legacy and cost reductions. In addition, this would reduce travel times for athletes. Creative options do exist e.g. Greenwich Park, Golf Clubs etc.

11. Modern Penthatlon

Where the following venues are in close proximity, do not construction additional venues unless a legacy need exists.
- 1 Small-Medium Indoor Arena (Shooting/Fencing)
- 1 Olympic sized Pool (Swimming)
- 1 Small-Medium sized football/athletics stadium (Equestrian/Cross Country)

e.g. Using an indoor arena, aquatic centre and nearby stadium at the Olympic Park. Alternatively University sports facilities usually incorporate all of the above and would therefore offer cost reductions. Temporary seating should be used where necessary.

12. Rowing

A costly and potential white elephant.
Careful planning should be given to this venue, especially given the experience of Sydney, Athens and Beijing.

As this venue is permanent, consider
- incorporating other leisure activities at the water body
- incorporating the venue into the olympic park or future residential area to maximize its use/value
- mainly temporary seating
- bringing the venue closer to the village to minimize the long travel times, which has become the norm
- use an existing water body where possible e.g. Lake Michigan, Manzanares, Rio's Lagoa


13. Slalom/Whitewater

Considering the construction of a temporary venue OR use an existing river course where suitable.
Integrating this venue with the rowing venue could reduce costs and improve the future use of the venue. As above, minimize permanent seating, maximize temporary seating.

14. Tennis

Use an existing venue with temporary seats around certain courts to meet the required seating capacity. Where a legacy need exists construct a venue with permanent seats with a suitable capacity. Ensure the future use of the venue by attracting one annual WTA and ATP event.

An existing tennis club would benefit from improved facilities while the use of temporary seating would lower the maintenance burden post Games

15. Shooting
The location of this venue is likely to be subject to environmental considerations/approvals.
Construct an entirely temporary venue or provide minimal facilities where legacy need exists.
The various shooting halls can be reconfigure post Games as community halls/spaces.

According to your list, best Olympic venue use is Athens 2004

According to your list, best Olympic venue use is Athens 2004

lol.

lol.

I know, and nobody cares to mention, its only Sydney or Beijing to look and learn.

Actually, that sounds a lot like Atlanta.

Actually, that sounds a lot like Atlanta.

Did Atlanta already have an Olympic stadium before the games?

Did Atlanta already have an Olympic stadium before the games?
They didn't even have one during the games.

They didn't even have one during the games.

lol:cheers:

Did Atlanta already have an Olympic stadium before the games?

"Ensure that the venue can reduce its capacity post Olympic Games or ensure that it can be reconfigured suitably to host other sports in demand in the host city."

They did that.

The most popular team in Atlanta is the baseball team, the stadium now hosts the baseball team.

So at the end of the day Atlanta opted for a pragmatic solution. But relating it to the title of the thread, you cannot call that stadium a burden, right?

Slalom/Whitewater has to go. It's a ridiculous burden on any host. Leave it as a niche sport televised from Welsh rivers ....

A good watersports centre ought to be able to find a better legacy than an empty stadium. I mean, you can turn those places into tourist attractions and get group bookings etc.

A good watersports centre ought to be able to find a better legacy than an empty stadium. I mean, you can turn those places into tourist attractions and get group bookings etc.

Depends I suppose. A natural river/slalom course probably the cheapest.

A good watersports centre ought to be able to find a better legacy than an empty stadium. I mean, you can turn those places into tourist attractions and get group bookings etc.

Ours loses a lot of money :(

Slalom/Whitewater has to go. It's a ridiculous burden on any host. Leave it as a niche sport televised from Welsh rivers ....

My city has been considering building one for a number of years now. There are many whitewater canoe/kayak clubs here but they can only use natural rivers during the winter months.

Depends on the city getting them and what plans they've made for them afterwards.

I get the impression that "legacy" is sometimes about making the politicians look good rather than what it delivers for the community. Take the 2012aquatic centre. I understand that the cost of converting the venue back into legacy mode will cost in the region of £40m. That's enough to build sixteen 25 metre pools, something which is desperately needed in London, but they have to spend it so that they can say the Hadid's monstrosity has a "legacy" use.

My city has been considering building one for a number of years now. There are many whitewater canoe/kayak clubs here but they can only use natural rivers during the winter months.

Given Perth's issues, it should really examine Charlotte's whitewater center. It's become a sinkhole for money.

I get the impression that "legacy" is sometimes about making the politicians look good rather than what it delivers for the community. Take the 2012aquatic centre. I understand that the cost of converting the venue back into legacy mode will cost in the region of £40m. That's enough to build sixteen 25 metre pools, something which is desperately needed in London, but they have to spend it so that they can say the Hadid's monstrosity has a "legacy" use.

Yes, quite right, legacy has evolved from the "legacy" that was thrown around in Olympic circles to a real tangible legacy, especially given that a temporary structure might actually cost quite a bit and offer no legacy when dismantled or as you suggest above, where the cost of transformation into legacy mode could provide a real legacy elsewhere.

I read somewhere that the Olympic Stadium in Beijing has become the second or third most popular venue in the city with tourists. I would imagine that some people are making it a point to come and see it then, which benefits the city financially. So if you build an aesthetically pleasing venue, I suppose it can sustain itself as a major tourist attraction till they find other uses for it...if they find such uses in the end. I wonder if tourists in Athens or Sydney or Atlanta ever wander the Olympic Stadiums?

Many tourists visit Atlanta's Olympic Stadium...it's heavily used March-October as the home field for Atlanta Braves baseball, converted following the Olympics and reduced to 50,000 seats.

They didn't even have one during the games.

Yeah, they must have held the track and field events out in a cotton field somewhere...and the Opening Ceremonies was all smoke and mirrors - Bejing anyone? :lol:

The fact is that most Olympic sports are 'minority' sports that have very small supporter bases and finding something to put in, say, the fencing venue must be a challenge to any organiser.

Ironically fencing is a pretty easy sport to cater for as it has no permanent infastructure specific to the sport so as long as time constraints allow it can share a big hall (convention center/expo center (after the games could actually be a huge number of things the 1997 Fencing world champs in cape town were held in the then coloumbourg convention center it is now a car show room as the need for a convention center was taken over by other venues)) with other sports during the games.

Yes, thats a good example. Cape Town also really benefit from the Olympic Priority facilities like the hockey stadium, velodrome, athlone, bellville stadium, softball stadium and many other smaller indoor halls for community use.

Fortunately, all these facilities were built to expand to accommodate Olympic needs.