Complete list of Metro, Light Rail and Tramlines in Europe

[Justme]

Major Update.... Now starting commuter/suburban networks

Ok, here's a complete list of Metro (subway), Light Rail, and Tramlines (streetcars) in Europe... and now, starting commuter/suburban rail networks

A few points before looking at them:

* Many of the figures are inaccurate due to enlargements to the various networks. Some networks have increased enormously since the data on this list was printed. I have updated a couple of cities, but I certainly don't have the time to do them all.

Homework for SSC forumers: If your city is on this list, and you know of the latest figures. Or if I missed your city, please post details here

* The tram lines are generally based on city proper area's only. Many cities in Europe, especially Germany, may have more than one network in the metropolitan area (connected together by Metro, LR and/or commuter rail). However, these are listed seperately here, so if you wish to compare different metro's in network size... no luck unless you manually add them together.

* NO COMMUTER/SUBURBAN Rail is included in the Metro or Tram figures. Most, if not all of the more important cities also have extensive suburban rail networks, often ones that work similar to metro's in the city center by going unbderground and usually many times larger than their Metro or Light Rail network: These are NOT included in the figures below.

Updated: I am now starting (from scratch) Commuter & Suburban Rail networks seperate to Metro networks.... DETAILS REQUIRED.

There are very few details regarding exactly har far should be included in commuter rail in Europe, due in part to the haphazard way in which a city, it's suburbs or it's metro are decided. So, accurate information may be difficult or impossible to find.

As an example, all the German city figures, are only those designated S-bahn. It doesn't include any R-bahn which in all cases act as a commuter railway within the metro area of German city's. Finding this added information has be elusive to me...

anyway... enjoy:

Metro (Subway)/ Lightrail networks

LR=Light Rail
M= Metro(Subway)
M+LR = either Metro/light Rail combination, or seperate metro and Light Rail lines

Armenia
Yerevan (1981) 13.4km M

Austria
Gmunden-Vorchdorf (1912) 14.7km LR
Vorchdorf-Lambach (1903) 15.5km LR
Lambach-Haag (1901) 26.3km LR
Linz-Postlingberg (1898) 2.9km LR
Linz-Waizenkirchen (1912) 58.9km LR
Salzburg (1886) 34km LR
Serfaus (1985) 1.28km M
Vocklamarkt-Attersee (1913) 13.4km LR
Vienna (1865) 67km M+LR
Wien-Baden (1873) 30.4km LR

Azerbaijan
Baku (1967) 30.5km M

Belarus
Minsk (1984) 16.4km M

Belgium
Bruxelles (1976) 40.5km M
De Panne-Knokke (1885) 55km LR

Bulgaria
Sofia (1998) 5km M

Czech Republic
Prague (1974) 59.3km M

Denmark
Copenhagen (2002) 21km M

Finland
Helsinki (1982) 21.1kmM

France
Lille (1983) 45km M
Lyon (1862-1978) 30km M
Marseille (1977) 19km M
Paris (1900) 243km M+LR
Toulouse (1993) 12.5km LR
Rennes (1997) 9.4km

Georgia
Tbilisi (1966) 26.3km M

Germany
Berlin (1902) 143km M
Bochum-Gelsenkirchen (1989) 14.9km LR
Bonn (1911) 26km LR
Brannenburg (1912) 8km LR
Essen (1977) 35.2km LR
Frankfurt/Main (1968) 58km M+LR
Garmisch-Partenkirchen (1929) 20km LR
Hamburg (1912) 100km M
Hannover (1872) 116.6km M+LR
Königswinter (1883) 1.5km LR
Lichtenhain-Cursdorf (1923) 2.5km LR
Mannheim-Bad Dürkheim (1913) 16.3km LR
Mannheim-Heidelberg (1868) 61km LR
Munich (1971) 98.4km M
Nürnberg (1972) 26.4kmM
Strausberg (1893) 6.2km LR
Stuttgart (1975) 84.2km M+LR
Trossingen (1898) 4km LR
Wuppertal (1903) 13.3km LR

Greece
Athens (1904) 25.8km M

Hungary
Budapest (1896) 206.8km M+LR

Ireland
Dublin (200?) ??km M+LR

Italy
Catania (1999) 3.8km M
Genova (1929-2000) 5.5km M
Milano (1964) 84.2km M
Napoli (1993) 28km M
Roma (1916-1955) 33.5km M
Torino (2005) 9.6km M

Netherlands
Amsterdam (1977-1990) 60.5km M+LR
Rotterdam (1968) 75.9km M
Utrecht-Nieuwegein (1983) 21.5km LR

Norway
Oslo (1909-1966) 123.4km M+LR

Poland
Warszawa (1929-1995) 49.5kmM+LR

Portugal
Lisboa (1959) 30km M
Oporto (200?) ??km LR

Romania
Bucuresti (1959) 59.2km M

Russia
Kazan (2005) 7.7km M
Moscow (1935) 282.52 M+LR
Nizhni Novgorod (1985) 13km M
Novosibirsk (1986) 13km M
Sankt Peterburg (1955) 107km M
Samara (1987) 12.5km M
Ust-Ilimsk (1988) 14.6km LR
Volgograd (1972) 12.8km LR
Yekaterinburg (1991) 12km LR

Slovakia
Poprad-Strbské Pleso (1912) 35.0km LR
Strba-Strbské Pleso (1970) 5km LR

Spain
Alicante (2003) 95km M+LR
Barcelona (1892/1924) 106.4km M
Bilbao (1995-2002) 60km M+LR
Donostia (San Sebastian) (1882) 156km LR
Gijón-Pravia (1909) 64km LR
Madrid (1919) 281.58km M
Palma-Sóller (1912) 23km LR
Santander (1892) 153km LR
Valencia (1988) 127km LR

Sweden
Lidingö (1907) 9.2km LR
Nockebybanan (??) 5.6km LR
Saltsjöbanan (??) 18.6km LR
Stockholm (1877-1950) 113.3km M+LR
Tvärbanan (??) 11.5km LR

Switzerland
Aarau (WSB) (1901) 32.3km LR
Bern (1898-1912) 53.7km LR
Bremgarten-Dietikon (1902) 18.8km LR
Genève (1994) 15km LR
Lausanne (1873) 22.6km LR
Lugano-Ponte Tresa (1912) 12.2km LR
Zürich (1875) 26.9km LR

Turkey
Adana (??) 14km LR
Bursa (??) 17km LR
Istanbul (1989) 16.7km LR
Izmir (??) 13km LR

Ukraine
Dnipropetrovsk (1996) 11.2km M
Kharkiv (1975) 26km M
Kyiv (1969) 55.03km M+LR
Kriviy Rih (1986) 11.6km LR

United Kingdom
Birmingham (1999) 20km M+LR
Glasgow (1896) 10.4km M
London (1863) 408km M
Newcastle/Tyne (1980) 59.3km M+LR

Tram (Street Car) networks (city proper, not metropolitan area)

Austria (AT)
Gmunden: (1894) 2.5km
Graz (1878) 30.3km
Innsbruck (1891) 36km
Linz (1880) 19.2km
Wien (Vienna) (1865) 240km

Belarus (BY)
Minsk (1892) 32km
Masyr (1988) 22km
Navapolatsk (1974) 11.3km
Vitsyebsk (1898) 34.5km

Belgium (BE)
Antwerpen (1873) 57km
Bruxelles (1869) 205km
Charleroi (1887) 20km
Gent (1875) 30km

Bosnia Herzegovina (BA)
Sarajevo (1895) 16km

Bulgaria (BG)
Sofia (1901) 222km

Croatia (HR)
Osijek (1884) 12km
Zagreb (1891) 54.4km

Czech Republic (CZ)
Brno (1884) 75.6km
Liberec (1887) 21km
Most (1957) 19km
Olomouc (1889) 14.2km
Ostrava(1894) 58.2km
Plzen (1899) 26km
Praha (Prague) (1875) 133km

Estonia (EE)
Tallin (1888) 39km

Finland (FI)
Helsinki (1891) 75km

France (FR)
Bordeaux (2003) 27.4km
Grenoble (1987) 32km
Lille (1874) 22km
Lyon (2001) 25km
Marseille (1876) 3km
Montpelier (2000) 15.2km
Nantes (1985) 39km
Orleans (2000) 18km
Paris (1992) 20.4km
Rouen (1994) 15.8km
St Etienne (1881) 9.3km
Strasbourg (1994) 24.6km

Under Construction:
Bordeaux (2007) 20km under construction
Grenoble (20/05/2006) 11.5km under construction
Le Mans (2007) 15.4km under construction
Lyon (200) 14.6km under construction
Marseille (2007) 11km under construction
Montpellier (03/01/2007) 19.6km under construction
Mulhouse (13/05/2006) 12km under construction
Nantes (2006) 2.2km under construction
Nice (2007) 8.8km under construction
Orleans (2007) 21km under construction
Paris (2006-2008) 10.2km (7.9 + 2.3) under construction
St Etienne (2006) 2km under construction
Strasbourg (2008) 13.5km under construction
Valenciennes (06/2006) 9.5km under construction
Valenciennes (2007) 8.5km under construction

Germany (DE)
Augsburg (1881) 31.6km
Bad Schandau (1898) 8.1km
Berlin (1865) 189.4km
Bielefeld (1900) 26.1km
Bochum-Gelsenkirchen (1894) 87.8km
Bonn (1891) 28.7km
Brandenburg (1897) 19.6km
Braunschweig (1879) 34.3km
Bremen (1876) 58.6km
Chemnitz (1880) 22.3km
Cottbus (1903) 23.7km
Darmstadt (1886) 41.8km
Dessau (1894) 13.1km
Dortmund (1881) 75.5km
Dresden (1872) 131km
Duisburg (1881) 58.6km
Düsseldorf (1876) 146.3km
Erfurt (1883) 29.3km
Essen (1893) 94.2km
Frankfurt/Main (1872) 63.4km
Frankfurt (Rhein Main metro region) 125km
Frankfurt/Oder (1898) 25.1km
Freiburg/Breisgau (1902) 27.5km
Gera (1892) 14km
Görlitz (1882) 13.4km
Gotha (1894) 26.3km
Hagen (19??) ??km
Halberstadt (1887) 8.3km
Halle (1882) 84.5km
Heidelberg (1885) 19.7km
Herne (19??) ??km
Jena (1901) 21.4km
Karlsruhe (1877) 149.9km
Kassel (1877) 47.4km
Kohlfurth (1995) 1.2km
Köln (Cologne) (1877) 191.2km
Krefeld (1883) 46km
Leipzig (1872) 152.6km
Ludwigshafen (1878) 30.2km
Magdeburg (1877) 60.9km
Mainz (1883) 21.9km
Mannheim (1878) 58km
Mülheim/Ruhr (1897) 32.4km
München (Munich) (1876) 78.5km
Nordhausen (1900) 8.7km
Nürnberg (1891) 42.1km
Oberhausen (1996) 9.6km
Plauen (1894) 17.3km
Potsdam (1880) 27.5km
Rostock (1881) 33km
Saarbrücken (1997) 17.5km
Schönberger Strand (1996) 0.3km
Schöneiche (1910) 15.2km
Schwerin (1881) 22.2km
Strausberg (???) 6.2km
Stuttgart (1864) 10.9km
Ulm (1897) 5.8km
Woltersdorf (1913) 5.6km
Wuppertal (1901) 13.3km
Würzburg (1892) 19.4km
Zwickau (1894) 9.1km

Greece
Athens (2004) 26km

Hungary (HU)
Budapest (1866) 156km
Debrecen (1911) 6km
Miskolc (1897) 9km
Szeged (1884) 15km

Italy (IT)
Messina (2003) 7.7km
Milano (1876) 287km
Napoli (1875) 23km
Roma (1882) 65.9km
Sassari (Sardinia) (2006) 2.5km
Torino (1872) 150km
Trieste (1883) 5.2km

Latvia (LV)
Daugavpils (1946) 25.2km
Liepaya (1899) 14km
Riga (1882) 123km

The Netherlands
Amsterdam (1875) 138km
Den Haag (1864) 128.1km
Rotterdam (1879) 67km

Norway (NO)
Bergen (1997) 0.4km
Oslo (1875) 152.5km
Trondheim (1901) 8.8km

Poland (PL)
Bydgoszcz (1880) 32km
Czestochowa (1959) 10.5km
Elblag (1894) 14km
Gdansk (1873) 50km
Gorzów WLKP (1899) 14km
Grudziadz (1896) 9.5km
Katowice (1894) 245km
Krakow (1882) 79.5km
Lodz (1898) 113km
Poznan (1880) 85km
Szczecin (1879) 40km
Torun (1891) 11km
Warszawa (1865) 119km
Wroclaw (1877) 85km

Portugal (PT)
Lisboa (1873) 72km
Porto (1872) 13.9km
Sintra-Atlantico (1903) 3km

Romania (RO)
Arad (1896) 45.5km
Botosani (1991) 11km
Braila (1900) 15km
Brasov (1987) 6.7km
Bucuresti (1874) 155km
Cluj-Napoca (1987) 11.5km
Constanta (1984) 42km
Craiova (1987) 19km
Galati (1899) 35km
Iasi (1900) 64km
Oradea (1905) 20km
Ploeisti (1987) 18.5km
Resita (1988) 9.5km
Sibiu (1905) 10km
Timisoara (1899) 42km

Russia (RU)
Achinsk (1967) 19.5km
Angarsk (1953) 48.4km
Arkhangelsk (1916) 37.3km
Astrakhan (1900) 41.3km
Barnaul (1948) 61.5km
Biysk (1960) 35.7km
Chelyabinsk (1932) 79.4km
Cherepovets (1956) 13.9km
Cheryomushki (1991) 5.9km
Dzerzhinsk (1933) 43.2km
Irkutsk (1947) 20.7km
Ivanovo (1934) 20.7km
Izhevsk (1935) 37.8km
Kaliningrad (1881) 51.5km
Kazan (1875) 75.3km
Kemerovo (1940) 44.4km
Khabarovsk (1956) 37.3km
Kolomna (1948) 20.2km
Komsomolsk-na-Amure (1957) 20.9km
Krasnoarmeisk (1959) 10.2km
Krasnodar (1900) 56.6km
Krasnoturinsk (1954) 10.2km
Krasnoyarsk (1958) 38.8km
Kursk (1898) 46.1km
Lipetsk (1947) 54.5km
Magnitogorsk (1935) 71km
Moskva (Moscow) (1872) 418.8km
Naberezhnye (1973) 43.9km
Nizhnikamsk (1967) 29km
Nizhni Novgorod (1896) 100km
Nizhni Tagil (1937) 54.5km
Noginsk (1924) 13.7km
Novocherkassk (1954) 21.3km
Novokuznetsk (1933) 70km
Novosibirsk (1934) 90.3km
Novotroisk (1956) 15.1km
Omsk (1936) 65km
Orel (1898) 17.4km
Orsk (1948) 34.9km
Osinniki (1960) 11.6km
Perm (1929) 64.5km
Prokopyevsk (1936) 41.3km
Pyatigorsk (1904) 20.7km
Rostov-na-Donu (1887) 60.1km
Ryazan (1963) 12.4km
Sankt Peterburg (1863) 692km ??? Possibly Track length
Salavat (1957) 18.3km
Samara (1895) 91km
Saratov (1887) 18.4km
Shakhty (1932) 16,2km
Smolensk (1901) 28.1km
Stary Oskol (1981) 30km
Taganrog (1932) 22.7km
Tomsk (1949) 22.2km
Tula (188) 46.1km
Tver (1901) 45.5km
Ufa (1937) 78.2km
Ulan-Ude (1958) 28.4km
Ulyanovsk (1954) 59.9km
Usolye Sibirskoye (1967) 16.2km
Ust-Katav (1973) 4.1km
Vladikavkaz (1904) 26.4km
Vladivostok (1912) 22.1km
Volchansk (1951) 15.4km
Volgograd (1913) 41.2km
Volzhskiy (1963) 23.9km
Voronezh (1891) 87.4km
Yaroslavl (1900) 33.4km
Yekaterinburg (1929) 89.3km
Zlatoust (1924) 29.8km

Serbia (YU)
Beograd (1885) 127.3km

Slovakia (SK)
Bratislava (1895) 35.3km
Kosice (1891) 33.6km
Trencianská Teplá (1909) 5.4km

Spain (ES)
Barcelona (1872/1997) 30km
Bilbao (2002) 4.4km
La Corunna (1997) 6.2km
Murcia (2007) 2km
Seville (2007) 1,3km
Sóller (1913) 5km
Tenerife (2007) 12,5km
Valencia (1994) 9.8km
Vitoria- Gasteiz (2004) 7.9km
Madrid (????) 27.78

Sweden (SE)
Göteborg (Gothenburg) (1879) 144km
Malmö (1987) 1.4km
Norrköping (1904) 13km
Stockholm (1991) 2.6km

Switzerland (CH)
Basel (1895) 139km
Bern (1890) 17.6km
Genève (1862) 10.2km
Zürich (1882) 111.6km

Turkey (TR)
Antalya (??) 4.8km
Eskisehir (??) 15km
Istanbul (1990) 11km
Konya (??) 18km

Ukraine (UA)
Avdiyivka (1965) 18km
Dniprodzerzhinsk (1935) 43km
Dnipropetrovsk (1897) 79km
Donetsk (1928) 60.2km
Druzhkivka (1945) 17.4km
Horlivka (1932) 31.2km
Kharkiv (1882) 132.2km
Kyiv (1892) 139.9km
Konotop (1949) 23.8km
Kostyatinivka (1931) 25.7km
Kramatorsk (1937) 19.2km
Kriviy Rih (1935) 36.8km
Luhansk (1934) 46km
Lviv (1880) 38.2km
Makiyivka (1935) 32.7km
Mariupol (1933) 56.8km
Molochne (1989) 1.5km
Nikolayiv (1887) 37.1km
Odesa (1910) 108.9km
Stakhanov (1937) 18km
Vinnitsya (1913) 21.2km
Yenakiyeve (1932) 16.4km
Yevpatoriya (1914) 17km
Zaporizhzhya (1932) 54.8km
Zhitomir (1899) 8.8km

United Kingdom (GB)
Birkenhead (1995)0.8km
Birmingham - Wolverhampton (1998) 20.4km
Blackpool (1885) 18km
London Croydon (2000) 28km
Douglas (IOM) (1876) 2.8km
Douglas-Ramsey (1893) 28.4km
Llandudno (1902) 1.6km
Leeds (????) ??km
Manchester (1992) 32km
Nottingham (????) ??km
Seaton (1970) 5.2km
Sheffield (1994) 3ß.5km
South Hampshire (????) ??km

Commuter & Suburban Rail Networks:

Austria
Vienna - 1579km

Belgium
Brussels - 210km (Not full metro area)

Czech Republic
Prague - 639.7km

Estonia
Tallinn - 131.6km

Finland
Helsinki - 60km

France
Paris - 1401km (Ile de France, 5xRER lines and 5xSuburban lines)
(571km for RER, 246 stations, Commuter 833km, 226 stations)

Germany
Berlin - 3107 (Combined S-bahn and Heavy Rail commuter)
Frankfurt - 1500km (complete Rhein Main commuter Rail)
Stuttgard - 117km (Does not yet include R-bahn coverage)

Italy
Milan - 250km (Only in official metro area, not including full commuter region)
Rome - 470km
Torino - 117km
Napoli-Sorrento (1891) 144km LR (not including other Napoli commuter rail)

Netherlands
Amsterdam, Rotterdam & Den Haag, amonsgt otehrs, forms a metropolitan area that should have a combined commuter network. Figures below are only within the direct urban area.
Amsterdam - 128km
Den Haag - 118km

Portugal
Lisbon - 240km.

Russia
Moscow - 3458km

Spain
Barcelona - 566km
Bilbao - 89.43km ( ET only )
Madrid - 335.7km
Seville - 30.1km (not full metro area)
Valencia - 101.1km

Sweden
Stockholm - 200km

Switzerland
Geneva - 30.8km (Not full metro area)
Zurich - 660km

United Kingdom
Birmingham - 186km
Glasgow - 109.3km
London 4642km (Network South East commuter system (788km in city proper)
Manchester - 292km

New
Top Tram networks in Europe by city proper network over 100km (Route km)
This list doesn't include the total trams within a metropolitan area. e.g. Frankfurt's metro area has three networks that are linked by S-bahn with a total of 125km. The Rhein Ruhr would also be enormous in total.

Sankt Peterburg: 692km (possibly track length, not route length)
Moskva: 418.8km
Milano: 287km
Katowice: 245km
Vienna: 240km
Sofia: 222km
Bruxelles: 205km
Köln: 188.5km
Berlin: 187.7km
Budapest: 156km
Bucuresti: 155km
Leipzig: 152.6km
Oslo: 152.5km
Karlsruhe: 149.9km
Düsseldorf: 146.3km
Göteborg: 144km
Kyiv: 139.9km
Basel: 139km
Amsterdam: 138km
Kharkiv: 132.2km
Dresden: 129.6km
Den Haag: 128.1km
Beograd: 127.3km
Prague: 125km
Torino: 123km
Riga: 123km
Warszawa: 119km
Lodz: 113km
Zürich: 111.6km
Odesa: 108.9km
Nizhni Novgorod: 100km

[Vertigo]

Very impressive. :cool:


Montegeneroso (1890) 9km LR


Weird to include this one. This is a mountain railway for tourists. Not really "light rail", although the vehicles are lighter than regular trains...But if you include this one you should include a lot of narrow gauge railways in Switzerland, because they are very similar.

Did you compose this list yourself? I remember a pretty similar list which was posted regularly in newsgroup misc.transport.rail.urban-transit, but haven't seen that list anymore for quite some time...

[Justme]

Originally posted by Vertigo

Very impressive. :cool:



Weird to include this one. This is a mountain railway for tourists. Not really "light rail", although the vehicles are lighter than regular trains...But if you include this one you should include a lot of narrow gauge railways in Switzerland, because they are very similar.

Did you compose this list yourself? I remember a pretty similar list which was posted regularly in newsgroup misc.transport.rail.urban-transit, but haven't seen that list anymore for quite some time...

Thanks. I tried to filter out the one's in Switzerland that were not normal light rail (there were plenty) and I'm not surprised I missed one or two. I'll remove it.

The list was mostly compiled from different booklets I have, web links I've kept, and from threads in SSC & SSP I've stored. Which is why there could be out of date info etc.

All I done, was transfer that information into these two lists. And post it on this forum so hopefully the data can be confirmed or corrected such as your post: cheers :cheers:

[Justme]

Added Serfaus, Austria

hehe ;) Smallest subway in the world. And smallest town (actually it's a villiage) to have it's own subway... 1.28km population

seriously... here's the link: http://www.funimag.com/funimag13/serfaus01.htm

This is a real subway line through the town, not a ski lift or anything.

[MSPtoMKE]

Are you not counting trams as light rail? I notices Milan only has the length of the Metro system listed, without its tram network. Still, it is quite an impressive list!

[Justme]

Originally posted by MSPtoMKE

Are you not counting trams as light rail? I notices Milan only has the length of the Metro system listed, without its tram network. Still, it is quite an impressive list!

there are two lists:

List 1) is for Light Rail and Metro

List 2) is for trams.

Milan is in both, the tram line is large, and listed in the tram section.

Of note, I didn't personally choose which were trams, and which were light rail. Sometimes, this can be too difficult to do.

:cheers:

[Gambini]

I want a metro too :(

At least i'm getting a metro-tram-train line (together with Zoetermeer and Rotterdam) so Holland and Germany (i think) will be the only ones in the world to have such a line :D

[Kaneda]

Copenhagen has a metro too. It opend last year, and rigth now its 21 km long. :)

[Justme]

Originally posted by Kaneda

Copenhagen has a metro too. It opend last year, and rigth now its 21 km long. :)

a thousand dankes, I've added it to the list :cheers:

[NorthStar77]

Nice list :)

The figures for oslo is however a little outdated. I found this document, http://www.sporveien.no/archive/attachments/01/01/facts026.pdf (page 12), showing the length of metro to be 118,7 km. These are figures for 2000. However, in August this year the metro was extended with to more stations and aprox 3 km.
For the tramways, it shows 152,5 km.

:)

[Justme]

Thanks NorthStar77, I've updated the list.

Comeon guys, we need updates
:D

[Justme]

Can someone from Russia have a look at the massive St. Petersburg and Moscow networks.

Especially St. Petersburg, the world's largest.

Different sites say different total route lengths, often around 700km! And here's a site that claims 1000km route length! http://www.tramways.com/tramways/russia/petersburg1/index.html

another link that claims 1000km: http://home.hccnet.nl/pj.klarenbeek/st-petersburg/st-petersburg.html

This pdf claims 692km route length... http://outsourcing-russia.com/kb/docs/russia/r19101-02.pdf

I need accurate information, what's on the list above seems far too low.

[Vertigo]

Originally posted by Gambini

I want a metro too :(

At least i'm getting a metro-tram-train line (together with Zoetermeer and Rotterdam) so Holland and Germany (i think) will be the only ones in the world to have such a line :D

The only one? Well, there are lots of transit systems that are somewhere in between a tram and a train, or in between a tram and a metro. These are usually referred to as 'light rail' (or light train, when talking about cheap&light trainsets). There's no definitive defenition of "light rail", and everyone seems to have his / her own definition of it.

I myself would call RandstadRail (the system you are talking about) light rail. The particular solution (metro on one line, tram / light rail on the other with a section where they share tracks) is pretty unique, although the Amsterdam - Amstelveen line is more or less similar.

[MSPtoMKE]

Originally posted by Justme

there are two lists:

List 1) is for Light Rail and Metro

List 2) is for trams.

Milan is in both, the tram line is large, and listed in the tram section.

Of note, I didn't personally choose which were trams, and which were light rail. Sometimes, this can be too difficult to do.

:cheers:

Duhhhh! ok, i feel stupid now! I didnt see the second list :D

[Marco Bruno]

Metro (Subway)/ Lightrail networks

There is a lightrail network (bombardier - eurotram) in Porto (Oporto)

Lisbon - M
Oporto - LR

[Justme]

Originally posted by Marco Bruno

Metro (Subway)/ Lightrail networks

There is a lightrail network (bombardier - eurotram) in Porto (Oporto)

Lisbon - M
Oporto - LR

Do you know the latest track lengths for both cities Marco?

[Vertigo]

Originally posted by Marco Bruno

Metro (Subway)/ Lightrail networks

There is a lightrail network (bombardier - eurotram) in Porto (Oporto)

Lisbon - M
Oporto - LR

I would call that a tram, not light rail. Especially in Lisbon - there's not much difference between the regular tram routes and the "eurotram" route except the equipment, is there? The Stasbourg network is also counted as "tram" network, and it's also running with eurotrams. So it would be weird to suddenly call those Lisbon lines "light rail". Of course, it's hard to give a definition for light rail. But there is a tendency to call every tram network with modern equipment a "light rail" network. In my opinion, light rail should at least have some train / metro elements like relative high speed of most of the line segregated from other transport modes.

@ Justme: in France, the Latour-le-Carol- Villefranche-de-Conflant (1910) 63km line is just like those lines in Switzerland, narrow gauge mountain railways. Also not light rail in my opinion (and certainly not urban).

[disco]

@ Justme

Where did you get this figures?
Also wondering about göteborg, i've read that it's 143 km (2002) (and one km added this year, 2003) and not 117 km??? :?

[Marco Bruno]

Originally posted by Vertigo
I would call that a tram, not light rail. Especially in Lisbon - there's not much difference between the regular tram routes and the "eurotram" route except the equipment, is there? The Stasbourg network is also counted as "tram" network, and it's also running with eurotrams. So it would be weird to suddenly call those Lisbon lines "light rail".

:? well, no one is calling the Lisbon tram's light rail... were did you read that? Lisbon have Subway and Tram lines, not light rail...

Lisbon's metro
http://www.metrolisboa.pt/images/ml90_01.jpg

About Oporto (Porto), Bombardier calls that light rail, and the rail tracks are diferent and larger than the Lisbon ones for the new siemens trams...
http://www.transport.bombardier.com/library/transport/pressrelease/low/EN_PortoEurotram-LowRes.jpg

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/pt/trams/Porto/Eurotram/Porto_035.jpg

@ Justme , I will check the track lengths...

[Justme]

Vertigo, Disco: Updated as request.

@Disco. Various booklets, and weblinks. Mostly out of date info unfortunately, which is why I appreciate the input.

All definitions of tram/light rail was not of my doing ;)

[disco]

@ Just Me

Stockholm update

The Subway
Total length: 113,3 km (65,6 km tunnel)

Saltsjöbanan (Don't know if you count this as suburban rail or light rail)
Picture of a train (http://www.jarnvag.net/bild/framsida/solsidan.jpg)
Total length: 18,6 km

Lidingöbanan (Don't know if you count this as tram or light rail)
Picture of a tram (http://ssr.pp.ru/vis/w1_rr_swe_lidingobanan.jpg)
Total length: 9,2 km

Nockebybanan (Don't know if you count this as tram or light rail)
Picture of a tram (http://www.kynerd.nu/Tunnelbanan/AlvM_020710.jpg)
Total Length: 5,6 km

Tvärbanan (Don't know if you count this as tram or light rail)
Picture of a Tram (http://www.uta.fi/~mp58522/tvarbanan3.jpg)
Total Length: 11,5 km

[disco]

Stockholm statistics

Everyday 1 034 000 journeys is made by the subway, 1 094 000 with trams and lightrail. Petty much for a city with 750 000 inhabitants, 1 700 000 in metro area. Think stockholm has the best public transport in the world by the number i citizens.
There's also the commuter rail with probably boost the numbers alot.

[Justme]

Originally posted by disco

@ Just Me

Stockholm update

The Subway
Total length: 113,3 km (65,6 km tunnel)

Saltsjöbanan (Don't know if you count this as suburban rail or light rail)
Picture of a train (http://www.jarnvag.net/bild/framsida/solsidan.jpg)
Total length: 18,6 km

Lidingöbanan (Don't know if you count this as tram or light rail)
Picture of a tram (http://ssr.pp.ru/vis/w1_rr_swe_lidingobanan.jpg)
Total length: 9,2 km

Nockebybanan (Don't know if you count this as tram or light rail)
Picture of a tram (http://www.kynerd.nu/Tunnelbanan/AlvM_020710.jpg)
Total Length: 5,6 km

Tvärbanan (Don't know if you count this as tram or light rail)
Picture of a Tram (http://www.uta.fi/~mp58522/tvarbanan3.jpg)
Total Length: 11,5 km

hehe, I want to try and avoid defining something as tram or light rail. Unless I know the city well, and these I don't. So, it's up to you swedish guys.

The first though looks somewhat commuter/suburban rail.

I'll update the others once a decision is made (by yourself or others, just not me) ;)

cheers :cheers:

[Marco Bruno]

Oporto LR (year 2002)
Total length: 12km
Total length by 2004/2005: 70 km

[Vertigo]

@Marco Bruno: well, I know Bombardier calls it "light rail", but that's because it's very fashionable to call everything light rail at this moment. Funny that the same vehicles on the same type of track are called "tram" in Strasbourg. ;) In my opinion you could call both either tram or light rail, but they both belong in the same category.

[Oberleutnant]

@ Justme

The correct length of Helsinki metro is 21,1 kilometers, but only a small part of it (6,5 kilometers) goes underground. They are planning to enlarge it, but not within the next few years. :)

[Justme]

Originally posted by Oberleutnant

@ Justme

The correct length of Helsinki metro is 21,1 kilometers, but only a small part of it (6,5 kilometers) goes underground. They are planning to enlarge it, but not within the next few years. :)

cheers Oberleutnant, I've updated it. Don't worry about how much is underground, which is why I labelled them Metro's (M) rather than Subway's or Underground.

[AGC]

cosmetic correct for Warsaw:
metro - 14 km (whole underground)
light rail (called WKD) - 35.5 km, partially outside the city of Warsaw.
Total M+R = 49.5 km.
WKD was opened in 1927, metro was opened in 1995.

[AGC]

What about trams, Katowice, Poland is second in Europe after Moscow, Russia :carrot:
BTW, Katowice is a capital of huge metro area; 245 km of tram lines cover several cities in that aglomeration, not only Katowice.

[Justme]

Originally posted by AGC

cosmetic correct for Warsaw:
metro - 14 km (whole underground)
light rail (called WKD) - 35.5 km, partially outside the city of Warsaw.
Total M+R = 49.5 km.
WKD was opened in 1927, metro was opened in 1995.

Thanks updated.

re: Katowice trams. I took the length straight from a booklet. Did I double up with some other city's on the Poland tram list?

[AGC]

Originally posted by Justme
re: Katowice trams. I took the length straight from a booklet. Did I double up with some other city's on the Poland tram list?

No. The number is fine. As I said tram system works in some cities in metro, but Katowice is the only one, which is listed here.

[metrero]

in Barcelona works of tram:lines T1 T2 T3 T4 T5 , 50 km of lines.
metro system in works 75 Km of new lines.

[Norbb]

Icredible, I would have guessed that up to 100 cities in Europe have trams - but over 300?? :eek:

[carfentanyl]

The list of the Netherlands is way too small. If you really count trams too, the following list would be a little more correct. I added some cities who are next to other cities but also enjoy the same subway, lightrail or tram network. I make lightrail or tram one category cuz sometimes it's hard to see the difference!

Because of the Dutch extensive tram networks, our subway networks are relatively small.

Correct me if I'm wrong...


Amsterdam (1977-1990) 60.5km M+LR
Amstelveen LRT
Diemen M+LRT

Rotterdam (1968) 75.9km M
Schiedam M+LRT
Capelle M+LRT
Hoogvliet M
Spijkenisee M
Vlaardingen LRT

Den Haag LRT
Voorburg LRT
Leidschendam LRT
Rijswijk LRT
Delft LRT

Utrecht-Nieuwegein (1983) 21.5km LRT

[coth]

Corrections for Moscow

Total length of Underground is 269.5 kilometers and 165 stations
This december would be extended by opening of first line of light rails (5 stations) 6.5 kms and opening of first monorail line with 6 stations and total length is 4.7 kms

[coth]

length of Saint Petersburg is 692 kilometers
information from http://tramway.bip.ru/about_t.html

maps of moscow tramw link (from http://tram.ruz.net)

in 1910
http://tram.ruz.net/maps/sh19100000.jpg

in 1916
http://tram.ruz.net/maps/sh19160000.gif

in 1931
http://tram.ruz.net/maps/sh19311016.gif

in 1955
http://tram.ruz.net/maps/sh19550500.gif

in 1973
http://tram.ruz.net/maps/sh19730300.gif

in 1993
http://tram.ruz.net/maps/sh19930000.gif

in 2003
http://tram.ruz.net/maps/sh20030101.gif

[eddy85]

The facts given about turkey are completly wrong :mad: here are the real infos:


City
Type of system
opening year
Status

Adana
heavy rail

Work in progress, inauguration set for end of 2002

Ankara
1 line heavy rail metro ( 33,0 km at end of construction)
1 line light rail
30 August 1996
in operation

Bursa
light rail


Eskiºehir
2 lines light rail

Work in progress for a 14,5 km LRT
opening in 2004

Istanbul
1 line heavy rail metro
1 line light rail
1 line tramways
1 funicular (Opened 1875)
1989
in operation

Izmir
heavy rail
25 August 2000
in operation

Konya
Light rail (tramway)
September 1992
in operation





The following cities have on going projects for urban transit systems: City
Type of system

Antalya
Tramway, feasibility study done in 1998 / 99

Kayseri
Feasibility in 1998 by SNC Lavalin for a 27 km LRT.

Isparta
Light rail, feasibility study in 1997 for a 11,6 km LRT, bidding in 1999

Samsun
Feasibility study started in 2000

[huaiwei]

Although I am no European, but I must say that is a very good list. ;) All I managed to do was one only for Southeast Asian systems.

Curious, but how would you differenciate between Light Rail and Metro? I faced that kind of problems with the SEAs ones alreacy, especially the KL system. Also, you did not face problems with metro systems that also serve beyond the city to become a regional system?

[Justme]

Originally posted by huaiwei

Although I am no European, but I must say that is a very good list. ;) All I managed to do was one only for Southeast Asian systems.

Curious, but how would you differenciate between Light Rail and Metro? I faced that kind of problems with the SEAs ones alreacy, especially the KL system. Also, you did not face problems with metro systems that also serve beyond the city to become a regional system?

None of the definitions were mine. I used what was in the booklets. The reasons were 1) to avoid controversy and 2) because I simply cannot tell myself some of these apart, especially the light rail/trams.

Metro's and suburban trains are usually quite different, although they can blur sometimes within the city center, as often suburban lines also go underground. Generally, a metro services the central area first. If it is big enough, it may extend outside the city limits, but usually the main purpose of it's construction was short distance commutes or transport.

[huaiwei]

IC, so you just called them the way they are being officially called?

Interesting, coz I know there are some systems that get very odd names. Some systems are quite obviously heavy, but they are called "LRT"s! Certainly a misnomer indeed! ;)

[Vertigo]

@huaiwei: quite right, "light rail" or LRT is a very trendy name in public transit, and is often used when it's clearly heavy rail or just a tram system.

@Justme: just wondering, the Berlin metro figure, does that include both S- and U-Bahn or only the U-Bahn? The S-Bahn is officially a commuter system, but it has a lot of metro characteristics.

[Basiliensis]

Update Basel (CH)

Lenght of the tram network: 139km
The tram network of Basle consists of two conected providers, which use too a small part of the net together: BVB (Basler Verkehrs Betriebe: Tram 73,8 km) and BLT (Baslenand Transport: Tram: 65,162 km)
not bad for a 200`000 city!

Source:
http://www.tnw.ch/html/partn_bvb_fr.html
http://www.tnw.ch/html/partn_frame.html

[Justme]

@huaiwei: Actually, I'm not too sure if the booklets took the official terms of each city.

Here's my definitions: (And these are fully open to scrutiny)

Tram (streetcar): Sometimes called light rail, but predominantly on streets rather than seperate right of way.

Trams are the slowest form of rail transport by far, but often the most attractive or interesting.

Light Rail: Sometimes called trams or metro's: For me, the definition is basically a tram that predominantly travels on it's own tracks seperated from the road. Although in parts these may go underground and be similar to a metro, or travel on streets and be similar to a tram.

Light Rail is either a "poor mans" metro, or a spedup tram network.

Metro: (Underground/Subway): Trains can be both lightrail (as in London) or heavy rail, but what seperates this from a suburban or commuter network is the system is created mainly for short distances and inner city or central city transport. Larger networks may extend into the suburbs, but their main purpose is transporting people on short commutes. The lines have many stations close to each other, and in good networks, forms a "matrix" or "net" within the central area rather than a suburban radial pattern.

Metro's don't have to be underground, but this is certainly the best option.

Metro's are the fastest way to travel short distances.

Suburban rail: These networks often resemble a small metro network in the central city (even in city's which also have a dedicated metro) but their primary purpose is longer distance commutes. Generally the networks form a radial pattern starting at the central city and spreading out. In city's with a seperated metro, the suburban lines usually have stations further apart. Even though the central area's may resemble a small metro network, since their primary roll is longer distance commutes (i.e. getting people into the city rather than around) they cannot really be considered a metro.

Regional trains: These are even longer distance versions of the suburban lines. The stations are even further apart, and although used still for commuting, they extend much further out into the hinterland.

The problem is that a lot of these networks combine elements of more than one so the definition can be hard.

Most city's in Europe (and many in other parts of the world) have a combined network of all three or four types. A dedicated metro/subway system in the city that may also extend to some suburbs. Usually with the matrix pattern to allow cross city travel. These are supplimented by a commuter/suburban network that may also resemble a metro in the city but usually used mainly for the longer trips, and in between there may also be a large tram network.

German cities split these up in a wonderful comprehensive way:

straßenbahn (trams)
U-bahn (metro, subway)
S-bahn (suburban Rail)
R-bahn (regional Rail)

@Basiliensis: Updated, thanks!

@Vertigo: None of the German figures include the S-bahn or R-bahn's in these figures. They are purely U-bahn numbers. As far as I know, this is the same for the other country's and does not include suburban rail (London's suburban rail is measured in thousand km's!)

I would love to get these figures as well, but for some reason, metro and trams have a sort of cult following, and figures are very easy to find. Commuter rail on the other hand is very difficult, with the exception of city's that only have commuter rail.

[Vertigo]

@Justme: agreed. I guess the reason is that metro and tram systems are "stand alone" systems, while commuter systems are often part of a much larger rail network, and it's very had to draw a line where commuter service ends and regional service begins.

[coth]

Update for Moscow
Moscow (1935), 280.3, M+LR

[Justme]

Thanks Coth for keeping this thread alive with new information.

updated as requested

[Darconte]

Madrid today:

http://www.photoways.com/partenaires/photoways/affiche_vignette.php?a=L2J3YWNnYCg5JjgkPT89PSgkPX52d2w4KSAqKi4uLCcVD1VAUA==

Madrid in 2007 with the new extensions - 300 km

http://www.photoways.com/partenaires/photoways/affiche_vignette.php?a=L2J3YWNnYCg5JjgkPT89PSgkPX52d2w4KSAoKi4uLCcVD1VAUA==

[Vertigo]

Wow, the Madrid network is growing really fast. What's the difference between "Amplicacion metro" and "Metro ligero"?

[Darconte]

"ampliacion metro" (metro extensio) is the normal one, that goes underground. The "metro ligero" (light metro) goes in surface and we don't know yet how, like a normal metro or like a tram.

sorry for my bad english

[Xwing]

The ampliation consists in 42 km. of metro and 30 km. of surface light metro

Another map:

http://www.metropla.net/eu/mad/metro-03-07.gif

[Colossus]

Antwerp, Belgium has metro and tram and Ghent has tram. i don't know if you count trolleybus, if so then you should write down Ghent for that, too and also Arnhem in the Netherlands

[Justme]

Originally posted by Colossus

Antwerp, Belgium has metro and tram and Ghent has tram. i don't know if you count trolleybus, if so then you should write down Ghent for that, too and also Arnhem in the Netherlands

Cheers mate, I havn't been doing trolley buses on this thread, just trams and metro's so far.

Do you have the latest details (length km) for the trams and metro's of Belgium? If so, I'll update the list.

Thanks.

[eomer]

Precisions for France:

Montain Light Rail
Chamonix-Montenvers (1909) 5.4km LR
St. Georges-de-Commiers-La Mure (1888) 30km LR
St. Gervais-Vallorcine (1889) 34km LR
St. Gervais-Bionnassay (1909) 12km LR
St. Ignace-La Rhune (1924) 2km LR


Métro
Lille (1983) 28.3km
Lyon (1978) 28km
Marseille (1977) 19km
Paris (1900) 210km
Toulouse (1993) 9.7km
Rennes

Tramways
Bordeaux (200?) ??km
Grenoble (1987) 18.5km
Lille (1874) 19km
Lyon (2001) ??km
Marseille (1876) 3km
Montpelier (2000) 15.2km
Nantes (1985) ??km
Orleans (2000) ??km
Paris (1992) 20.4km
Rouen (1994) 15.8km
St Etienne (1881) 19.3km
Strasbourg (1994) ??km
Valenciennes (200?) ??km
under construction
Nice
Toulon
Mulhouse (tram-train)


Others
Nancy (Trogui)
Caen (Trogui)
Clermont Ferrand (Translhör)

[Trisuno]

Lyon, France

Métro ( 4 lines )= 30 km
Tramway (2 lines)= 23.5 km
Funicular (2 lines)= 1.3 km

:baaa:

[lux]

I have noticed that german cities have the best tram network, this is very smart.

Italiy have very poor tram network, couse they stupid citty majors
canceled all trams after 2nd. WW.
They r building tram networks again in some cities. Double work for stupidity!!!!!!!

[Justme]

Milan has one of the largest tram networks in the world. It is certainly in the top 10, and possibly the top 5.

Torino is also pretty large, especially for being a smaller city.

[Justme]

Thanks Trisuno & eomer. I made the corrections.

eomer, what are these?
Others
Nancy (Trogui)
Caen (Trogui)
Clermont Ferrand (Translhör)


And do you have some details for the ones Trisuno left out?

[Trisuno]

The trogui is something between the trolleybus and the tramway ....it s a kind of guided bus,of tramway with tires....but the fiability of this system is very VERY bad :bleep:

it s built by bombardier

some pictures of the nancy's tram
http://www.bahnhof.se/~tjkomm/011807.jpg
http://www.bahnhof.se/~tjkomm/Nan2.jpg
http://www.bahnhof.se/~tjkomm/011806.jpg


this is the system chosen for clermont ferrand
= the Civis
http://www.dpi.wa.gov.au/metro/policies/rockinghamtransit/civis.jpg

[Justme]

fREAky

but somehow I still like it.

[eomer]

The Trogui (TROlleybus GUIdé) does not work. It is NOT a tram.

The Civis is guided by symplistic optical system (no mecanical) : it's a Trolleybus...and it works because the guide is only used to help the driver who can use the stirring when he wants.

[norreport]

@justme, how did you get the figures for Barcelona metro network?

i see you include M+LR.

Now metro barcelona is about 9 lines and 115 km long, so there are aprox. 120 km i dont know where do you get them from. Maybe from the rest of FGC network?? it is not included in the metro network, but most of their lines works as a real metro performing high frequences like a metro.

:)

[alexbn]

Originally posted by norreport

Now metro barcelona is about 9 lines and 115 km long, so there are aprox. 120 km i dont know where do you get them from. Maybe from the rest of FGC network?? it is not included in the metro network, but most of their lines works as a real metro performing high frequences like a metro.



*Metro: 9 lines, 104.5 km
*FGC: 124.9 km including Metro del Baix Llobregat, Metro del Vallès (high frequency commuter trains) and R5 R6 (lower frequency).
*Renfe: 426.0 km including R1 R2 R3 R4 commuter trains (high or low frequency depending on the destination).
Total: 655.4 km

[Justme]

@norreport, I got it from a booklet I bought in London a couple of years back. It has a lot of info about loads of different networks around the world, but no specific details and probably out of date. However, it lists the metro as having 75.9km (5 lines) and Light Rail as 143km (4 lines)

It certainly does look odd when compared to the stats you and alexbn provided. I’ll be happy to amend this. If Renfe is the commuter network, what is the FGC network? Could the FGC be the light rail that was mentioned?

[alexbn]

FGC has different services: lines R5 and R6 are commuter trains whereas L6, L7 and L8 are metro lines. Then we have Metro del Vallès and Metro del Baix Llobregat, which could be defined in Spanish as "ni chicha ni limoná", that is, neither one thing nor the other. These services have some characteristics of a metro (distance between stations, capacity of the trains), but also from a commuter train (frequency, total distance being run). In the future (2008 I think) these services are to be considered metro, since the frequency will be improved. Also, the development of the city will create a continuous urbanized zone within the radius where the lines give their service. I hope this answers your question.

[Justme]

gulp :?

Well, can I leave this one up to you to work out the totals? I don't want commuter lines in this list, as I want to eventually create a completely seperate list for commuter.

So, Just metro + LR, and I'll make the ammendment. It's a bit hard to visualise without knowing the network. It all looks so comprehensive on the map ;)

cheers :cheers:

[alexbn]

Then metro 104.5 km (that includes L6, L7, L8 from FGC), no LR.

[alexbn]

Here are some links about Spain:

http://www.renfe.es
http://www.feve.es
http://www.tmb.es
http://www.fgc.es
http://www.fgv.es
http://www.metromadrid.es
http://www.metrobilbao.com
http://www.euskotren.es

Maybe they are useful.

[Vertigo]

Originally posted by alexbn

FGC has different services: lines R5 and R6 are commuter trains whereas L6, L7 and L8 are metro lines. Then we have Metro del Vallès and Metro del Baix Llobregat, which could be defined in Spanish as "ni chicha ni limoná", that is, neither one thing nor the other. These services have some characteristics of a metro (distance between stations, capacity of the trains), but also from a commuter train (frequency, total distance being run). In the future (2008 I think) these services are to be considered metro, since the frequency will be improved. Also, the development of the city will create a continuous urbanized zone within the radius where the lines give their service. I hope this answers your question.

FGC also has two rack mountain railways, one to the famous cloisters of Montserrat, and the other one to the north of Barcelona.

Funny that one single transport company both has urban/metro transport and mountain railways.
:cool:

[norreport]

Originally posted by alexbn

Then metro 104.5 km (that includes L6, L7, L8 from FGC), no LR.
I agree with alexbn, metro bcn 104.5 km and no LR.

L1 to L5 plus L11 are under TMB company and L6 to L8 are under FGC. But they work or they pretend to (they have been formally included in the metro network just a few months ago) as a integrated metro network and users dont have to pay twice when using different companies, though now it also occurs with commuters, buses, etc, since there has been implemeted the Integrated Ticket that allows to use more than one mean of transport without paying more.

[Justme]

ok, but my problem here is that all the other city's are based on Metro + LR, so if I just do Barcelona with metro only, it would be the only one restricted like that.

[alexbn]

Originally posted by Justme

ok, but my problem here is that all the other city's are based on Metro + LR, so if I just do Barcelona with metro only, it would be the only one restricted like that.

My problem is the following: I know what is a tram, what is a commuter train and what is a metro. But what exactly is a light rail???

[Manchester Kurt]

take a glance at

http://www.lrta.org/world/worldind.html

they claim to have a definatlive list.

[alexbn]

Well, having looked at www.lrta.com, then a light rail is a tram, but maybe of a longer extension. That doesn't exist in Barcelona. There's a 28.5 km tram network to be opened in one month (11 km first and then the rest), but NOT light rail.

[Vertigo]

There's already a thread about exactly this question. Follow this link (http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82628) and especially read Justme's explanation.

[Justme]

They can be confusing but look at it this way:

A tram usually travels predominantly on the street, sharing the road space with other traffic. Trams stop at traffic lights, cross intersections, and are generally considered similar, but more comfortably, and attractive than buses. In some cases, trams may also travel for periods on their own carriageway, where higher speeds are possible, but to define the network as a tram network, it should be mostly sharing streetspace with cars. Trams are usually one or two carriages, but rarely more.

Light Rail often appears similar to trams, although they operate more like metro networks. Light Rail predominantly travels along it's own carriageway, either in the center of the road (but fully seperated from road traffic), alongside a road, or rail, or completely seperate. The cars may look similar to trams, but are usually 2 cars long or often more. Light Rail at places may go underground, and may at times share the road with trams (hense the confusion) but mainly they are fully seperate to be considered a Light Rail Network.

Where a tram is like a rich man's bus, the Light Rail is more like a poor man's metro. They are closer to the metro definition of transport, but usually not as efficient (smaller trains, slower and not underground as a rule)

I hope that helps.

This is one of the old classic trams that used to rattle their way around Barcelona. Similar to the Lisbon ones, it is such a shame that they are not there any more (with one small exception)
http://dewi.ca/trains/barcelon/pix/n29_1_3.jpg

This tram, the Tramvia Blau is the only existing one that I know of that still operates from the old set
http://public-transport.net/bim/Bcn/P_Bcn/TB_5.JPG

This is the new tram that will soon grace the streets of Barcelona
http://public-transport.net/bim/Bcn/P_Bcn/PICT0277.jpg

But you no doubt know about these.

As far as I know, everything else is either the metro, the light rail (possibly some are what was described as the FGC) and the commuter rail.

Barcelona's network maybe great, but it seems way confusing ;)

[Vertigo]

Hmm, I wouldn't call the FCG "light rail". It's a mix between commuter rail and metro, a bit like the RER in Paris.

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/es/private/FGC/valles/FGC-Provenca.jpg

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/es/private/FGC/valles/fgc-112-14a.jpg

[Justme]

Ok, so the Barcelona metro is a total of 104.5km, and no Light Rail.

I'll make the change

cheers guys.

[Justme]

OK, so I'm gonna start adding commuter/suburban rail networks to the list.

I have a small handfull of specs on one of harddisks of various city's, but when I plugged the bastard in, I have just found out it ain't working. Hopefully I can get this bastard back on-line as it has quite a bit of data I don't wanna loose!

But, Commuter networks are very hard to find information for... I must rely on everyone else here to help

SO, please start posting figures here for me to add.

Question: Barcelona... If Renfe & FGC are not part of the metro, would they fit in the commuter network then?

[Aquarius]

Originally posted by Justme

OK, so I'm gonna start adding commuter/suburban rail networks to the list.

I have a small handfull of specs on one of harddisks of various city's, but when I plugged the bastard in, I have just found out it ain't working. Hopefully I can get this bastard back on-line as it has quite a bit of data I don't wanna loose!

But, Commuter networks are very hard to find information for... I must rely on everyone else here to help

SO, please start posting figures here for me to add.

Question: Barcelona... If Renfe & FGC are not part of the metro, would they fit in the commuter network then?

http://www.atm-transmet.es/index_ang.htm

In Barcelona there are 3 railroad companies:


http://www.atm-transmet.es/imghome_cat/icono_0.gif TMB Transports Metropolitans de Barcelona. Metro 100%, lines 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 11


http://www.atm-transmet.es/imghome_cat/icono_4.gif FGC Ferrocarrils de la Generalitat de Catalunya. Metro 50%, Local Routes 50%.
The lines of underground are the line 6, 7 and 8. These lines are within Barcelona and have short shutdowns.

The others FGC lines, R5 R6 S1 S2 S33 S4 S5 .....these have long shutdowns, normally of more of a kilometer, circulate
around outside Barcelona city, are similar to those of the RENFE


http://www.atm-transmet.es/imghome_cat/icono_5.gif Renfe Red Nacional de Ferrocarriles, 100% local routes.

long shutdowns, also within the city of Barcelona


http://es.msnusers.com/_Secure/0SgCz**EUXuyWoCUIqwWNBvFK0KKZk2jtuxgwi6FrtRGYta3lp9Ou!VoLQ8mCXu9cNNIMETg2ymDSQ!K0jJ9X49mjs7TKfPtoSNDCEqafIs4NeZApSIQJ3g/TMB%20y%20FGC.JPG?dc=4675456388861620823

In summary: that lines 6, 7 and 8 of FGC are metro 100%

[Justme]

Got the hard disk fixed, and added some more commuter rail figures.

Pity, I forgot the German city's were only the S-bahn, and doesn't include coverage of the R-bahn, which operates as a commuter network within the city's metro area.

Damn it, getting specs in Europe is one of the hardest things I can possibly imagine, especially something like commuter rail. In other parts of the world it's actually quite easy, but since no one person in Europe can agree on a metro area, then no one can also decide it seems what are commuter rail, and what is inter-city.

Jesus, no wonder everyone goes to war here every few decades. This sort of stuff can drive any man crazy!

edit: This wasn't addressed at you Aquarius. I wrote it before seeing your post ;) anyway, a thousand thanks for all your help and all. :cheers:

I appreciate the links, and lessons (really), but can you also just fill in these two points below (before my head explodes)

Metro (including FGC Metro lines) xxxkm
Commuter (including suburban FGC + Renfe) xxxkm

Gracias :)

[Vertigo]

@Justme: adding commuter rail networks to the list? :? That's a noble cause, but how the hell are you going to measure them?

Unlike America, European cities usually don't have a tight division between commuter and long distance trains. Mostly commuter trains "fade into" regional trains which "fade into" long distance trains if you understand what I mean.

Especially in small countries like the Netherlands. Amsterdam has no trains branded as commuter trains like that. There's just the national rail network with trains devided in local, express and intercity... but even intercity trains are very frequent, require no supplement, transport loads of commuters and also stop several times inside agglomerations...

Another example: the Rhein-Ruhr area. Of course the S-Bahn trains are commuter trains, but the RegionalBahn and RegionalExpress trains also have a serious commuter function.

EDIT: while I was writing this, you posted:
Pity, I forgot the German city's were only the S-bahn, and doesn't include coverage of the R-bahn, which operates as a commuter network within the city's metro area.

Damn it, getting specs in Europe is one of the hardest things I can possibly imagine, especially something like commuter rail. In other parts of the world it's actually quite easy, but since no one person in Europe can agree on a metro area, then no one can also decide it seems what are commuter rail, and what is inter-city.

Which is exactly my point. :)

[Justme]

^ year Vertigo, I suspect I may have bitten off more than I can chew. But who know's, maybe some stats will start filtering in.

I always wanted a complete list of commuter rail lengths, so may as well give it a chance now.

But I agree, which is why my head is about to explode.... right about now..........

[Vertigo]

Well, good luck. :)

But I'm a bit afraid that the list may become even more arbitary as the infamous agglomeration list. ;)

[Aquarius]

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RAAAAOkThqJ2tDGuPS7Mj3TrB8FC4vkIQIvHscQKgpf1LNFQQy*otfyjwQOnd6UT*EN68vxi8tiU6ZhzimU8lRi656PhallZodqhCvQ88QI/Linea12.JPG?dc=4675456397455861517 Originally posted by Justme

Metro (including FGC Metro lines) xxxkm
Commuter (including suburban FGC + Renfe) xxxkm

Gracias :)


Metro (including FGC Metro lines): L1, L2 L3 ,L4 ,L5, L11= 84 km

L6, L7, L8 (FGC metro lines)= 24km Total metro= 108 km.

Commuter (including suburban FGC + Renfe): Renfe= 426 km FGC suburban=120 km Total commuter= 546 km

I have not added new line of tram

De nada :)

Future extension of the metro:

Line 9/10:

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RgCJAk0U1b8vb9YtwF4MurudprkDpzoABzSQ7!LXyUmnLV*YqJCrl6qHCkNJnYEXoq*2qZcLyhxrQ*och8W5UsEuS*Aun4DZKBEAHSzkapU/Linea9-10.JPG?dc=4675456397577106853

[B]Line 12

[Justme]

And satellite pictures as well! Aquarius, you're a real Gem. Thanks for the specific km's. I will make the ammendments now.

:cheers:

[Aquarius]

Originally posted by Aquarius

Metro (including FGC Metro lines): L1, L2 L3 ,L4 ,L5, L11= 84 km

L6, L7, L8 (FGC metro lines)= 24km Total metro= 108 km.

Commuter (including suburban FGC + Renfe): Renfe= 426 km FGC suburban=120 km Total commuter= 546 km

All the lines of FGC, TMB and Renfe in Barcelona 546km + 108km=654 km

[norreport]

Originally posted by Aquarius

All the lines of FGC, TMB and Renfe in Barcelona 546km + 108km=654 km
@aquarius, did you take into account that part of L6 and L8 from FGC are also used by commuter FGC lines when summing up total lenghts of networks??

maybe it has been counted double, i dont know :)

[alexbn]

Exact data for Barcelona:

L1 20.7 km
L2 12.4
L3 16.6
L4 17.2
L5 16.6
L6+L7 7.0 (FGC; these lines share one part so they go together)
L8 11.8 (FGC)
L11 2.2

Total metro: 104.5 km

Cercanías Renfe: 426.0 km
FGC (rest of the network): 124.9 km

Total commuter train: 550.9 km

Vallvidrera + Montjuïc funiculars: 1.5 km

TOTAL network: 656.9 km

In one month, 11.0 km of tram are to be opened, so 667.9 km

[coth]

Moscow Commuter Lines total stats

Name of Line (Company) - Stations, Length

Leningrad direction (October Railroads, St. Petersburg) - 43, 213km
Riga's direction (Moscow Rairoads) - 40, 157km
Smolensk direction (Moscow Railroads) - 64, 288km
Kiev direction (Moscow Railroads) - 42, 200km
Tula's direction (Moscow Railroads) - 42, 202km
Paveletsk direction (Moscow Railroads) - 74, 401km
Kasan' and Ryasan' directions (Moscow Railroads) - 132, 516km
Vladimir direction (Moscow Railroads) - 57, 232km
Yaroslav direction (Moscow Railroads) - 70, 226km
Savelov direction (Moscow Railroads) - 39, 174km
Circle Line (Moscow Railroads) - 145, 570km

Total: 706 stations, 3179 kilometers!

plus small circle line (50km long) planed to complete reconstruction and opening in
2007 after completion of Fourth Transportation Loop Freeway

it closed for passenger service in 1921
reconstruction cost - 1bln €

[Aquarius]

Originally posted by Justme

And satellite pictures as well! Aquarius, you're a real Gem. Thanks for the specific km's. I will make the ammendments now.

:cheers:

Other satellite pictures of the future line 12:



http://www.gencat.net/ptop/europorta/img/popup_linia12_2.jpg

[Justme]

Originally posted by coth

Moscow Commuter Lines total stats

Name of Line (Company) - Stations, Length

Leningrad direction (October Railroads, St. Petersburg) - 43, 213km
Riga's direction (Moscow Rairoads) - 40, 157km
Smolensk direction (Moscow Railroads) - 64, 288km
Kiev direction (Moscow Railroads) - 42, 200km
Tula's direction (Moscow Railroads) - 42, 202km
Paveletsk direction (Moscow Railroads) - 74, 401km
Kasan' and Ryasan' directions (Moscow Railroads) - 132, 516km
Vladimir direction (Moscow Railroads) - 57, 232km
Yaroslav direction (Moscow Railroads) - 70, 226km
Savelov direction (Moscow Railroads) - 39, 174km
Circle Line (Moscow Railroads) - 145, 570km

Total: 706 stations, 3179 kilometers!

plus small circle line (50km long) planed to complete reconstruction and opening in
2007 after completion of Fourth Transportation Loop Freeway

it closed for passenger service in 1921
reconstruction cost - 1bln €

Coth, are those "multiple lines"? I mean, "Paveletsk direction (Moscow Railroads) - 74, 401km", 401km is far too long for a commute, even the 174km one is.

So, what I mean, are these 401km, or 174km made up of lots of much smaller lines that total that amount?

[coth]

yes, with branches
look at this map
http://metrozzz.narod.ru/raznoe/maps/prigorodny2002.gif
(click on link, and after click on link again on hoster page)


cyan line is 'Paveletskoye Napravleniye' (Paveletsk Direction)
near every station showed kilometer from central station
all lines are full. last station is terminate. arrow showing only next direction, for what you can change on terminate station.

btw, I live near paveletsk central station

[Justme]

Yeap, that's one big mother of a commuter network. Does look pretty impressive.

I'm also impressed with how the Russian company gives so much details. I have been looking for similar statistics for the London & SouthEast commuter rail, and although the maps are really comprehensive, absolutely no-one, or anywhere seems to have the total km of route services.

3179km!

[coth]

hmm... what you try to say.... really, I don't understand...

[Justme]

Originally posted by coth

hmm... what you try to say.... really, I don't understand...

Coth = :okay:
Moscow commuter information = :okay:
moscow commuter network = :okay:
London commuter network = :okay:
London commuter information = :bash:

[coth]

@Justme
this map made not by company... like I make my RTSM map, one man, also, who loved rails, made this commuter lines map :)
in really - I don't - is Moscow Railroad and October Railroads have official sites...
...nice idea... i try to find it...

[Gatis]

Please correct:

Total length of tram lines in Latvian cities:

Riga - 123,0 km
Daugavpils - 25,2 km
Liepaja - 14 km

[coth]

@Justme
you are right about mother of rails - sum of all -

Commuter Lines (3179km) + Moscow Metro (275km) + Tramwlink (415km) = 3869 kilometers of total!!!!

i think we need to make top 10 statistic, but now I go to change my signature...


btw. sorry - i mistaked in length of Butovo Light Rails line. it 10.8 kms in future total, but now it only 5.4kms, so decrease by 5.4kms metro+lr...

[Vertigo]

That's huge! :eek:

That's more than there is rail in the Netherlands. The main rail network in the Netherlands is 2808 km.

@Justme: I can provide you with all km distances of the rail network in the Netherlands. Just tell me what you consider to be commuter rail from the Dutch network...

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/ns/gif/network.jpg

[Leienaar]

It think commuter rail for Amsterdam is something like:
-west until Haarlem Spaarnwoude
-southwest until Hoofddorp
-south until Breukelen
-east until Naarden-Bussum
-northeast until Almere-Buiten
-north until Purmerend
-northwest until Uitgeest
or something like that.

But you are right, it is not easy to decide.

[Vertigo]

I think that's far too limited. Trains branded as commuter trains, such as Rodalies in Spain or Metro North near New York, go out to also large towns at tens of kilometers distance. So a city like Almere, Utrecht or even Rotterdam could very well be called commuter rail of Amsterdam.

Therefore I think it would make more sense to define a Randstad commuter network (just like Rhein-Ruhr) instead of an Amsterdam commuter network. Still not easy though...

[Justme]

Originally posted by Vertigo

I think that's far too limited. Trains branded as commuter trains, such as Rodalies in Spain or Metro North near New York, go out to also large towns at tens of kilometers distance. So a city like Almere, Utrecht or even Rotterdam could very well be called commuter rail of Amsterdam.

Therefore I think it would make more sense to define a Randstad commuter network (just like Rhein-Ruhr) instead of an Amsterdam commuter network. Still not easy though...

Well, you guys over there know the Netherlands far more than me, so I'll just accept what anyone says. But if you want my two cents, I'd agree with the Rhandstad area (or whatever the new name for it is... I'm a bit hung over and it's far too early)

As far as I know this whole region acts as a single commuting region.

[coth]

Total length statistics (in thous. km)
1. United States____230.7
2. Russia__________85.5
3. China__________71.9
4. India__________63.0
5. Canada________46.5


Total length of electrify rails (in thous. km)
1. Russia_________42.3
2. Germany_______19.2
3. China__________16.9
4. France_________14.3
5. India__________14.2




Present Moscow Railroad commuter trains
http://www.eng.rzd.ru/images/viewimage.html?pi_id=734
http://www.eng.rzd.ru/images/viewimage.html?pi_id=732
http://www.eng.rzd.ru/images/viewimage.html?pi_id=746
http://www.eng.rzd.ru/images/viewimage.html?pi_id=748
http://www.eng.rzd.ru/images/viewimage.html?pi_id=740
http://www.eng.rzd.ru/images/viewimage.html?pi_id=1562
http://www.eng.rzd.ru/images/viewimage.html?pi_id=1606
http://www.eng.rzd.ru/images/viewimage.html?pi_id=738
http://www.eng.rzd.ru/images/viewimage.html?pi_id=760


train for small circle commuter line, by demidovo rail cars construction company
http://www.eng.rzd.ru/images/viewimage.html?pi_id=716


old commuter train
http://www.eng.rzd.ru/images/viewimage.html?pi_id=744



Also trains of Moscow Railroads oprate not in Moscow commuter network

DMU ACh2-081 operate between Kaluga and Tula
http://www.eng.rzd.ru/images/viewimage.html?pi_id=708

DMU ACh2-114 operate in Tula province
http://www.eng.rzd.ru/images/viewimage.html?pi_id=706

DMU ACh2-104 operate in Kaluga province
http://www.eng.rzd.ru/images/viewimage.html?pi_id=714




Experimental EMU EN3-001 at the experimental ring of VNIIZhT in Shcherbinka in Moscow province (5km from City of Moscow)
http://www.eng.rzd.ru/images/viewimage.html?pi_id=718


bonus pics
russian landscapes

Autumn on Krasnoyarsk Railroads
http://www.eng.rzd.ru/images/viewimage.html?pi_id=876


Autumn sunset on Moscow Railroads
http://www.eng.rzd.ru/images/viewimage.html?pi_id=872


Northern Railways
http://www.eng.rzd.ru/images/viewimage.html?pi_id=874



other shots may be found here
http://www.eng.rzd.ru/museum/index.html?he_id=84&_page=0&pi_id=770

[Kommentare]

Georgia - Tbilisi subway are forgoten in the list ;)

[Vertigo]

Nice pics, Coth! :cool:

@Justme: if I had to define a Randstad commuter network, I would say all the network in the West and Middle, until:
- Roosendaal
- Breda
- 's-Hertogenbosch
- Nijmegen
- Apeldoorn
- Zwolle
- Enkhuizen
- Heerhugowaard

Perhaps I'm taking it a bit too far, but I know quite some commuters from some of these cities to Utrecht or Amsterdam...

But also other lines carry lots of commuters.

[Justme]

@Kommentare, my atlas claims Georgia as part of Asia, so does this web based one: http://www.nationmaster.com/country/gg

Although, personally, I'm not too sure myself. It's one of those country's that maybe one or the other.

If enough people here say it's Europe, I'll throw it in. Thanks for pointing out the possible ommision.

@Vertigo, sounds good to me. Surely there's a commuter map covering this area. Or the Netherlands, being the size it is, just stick to a national map for all other rail outside of metro?

Anyway, the easy part is deciding on the area coverage (this is usually done by the commuter maps available)

The hard part is finding route km statistics.

[Vertigo]

sounds good to me. Surely there's a commuter map covering this area. Or the Netherlands, being the size it is, just stick to a national map for all other rail outside of metro?

No, there's no seperate commuter map, since all the rail lines of the Netherlands easily fit on a simple map.

A new Randstad map including all rail, metro, light rail and express bus routes is worked on by the various authorities. Should be an interesting map.

Anyway, the easy part is deciding on the area coverage (this is usually done by the commuter maps available)

Well, since there is no definition of commuter train in the Netherlands and no commuter map, this is actually pretty hard. There's not a system like the S-Bahn in Germany, but the entire rail network carries loads of commuters. Even so called "intercity" trains often have shorter distances than commuter trains in some other countries.

The hard part is finding route km statistics.

That's actually the easy part in the Netherlands. I can look up the distances for every line in the Netherlands (or well, tariff km's; not excactly the same as route km's, but they're pretty much the same in the Netherlands). If you really want the exact distances, I can probably get those too by asking on a Dutch railway enthusiasts' mailing list.

[coth]

Originally posted by Justme

@Kommentare, my atlas claims Georgia as part of Asia, so does this web based one: http://www.nationmaster.com/country/gg

Although, personally, I'm not too sure myself. It's one of those country's that maybe one or the other.

If enough people here say it's Europe, I'll throw it in. Thanks for pointing out the possible ommision.

Georgia is in Europe.

[Justme]

Does this look accurate for Paris? Ile de France commuter rail?

http://www.emta.com/parisiledfrance_rtp.htm

1401km?

That site has quite a few commuter lengths, although I noticed on the London one, it only includes those within Greater London, an easy figure to obtain. The others look ok, so I think I will add them until otherwise corrected.

[coth]

1401km? no bad.

but how about Tokyo commuter rails? I think that not less 3000km too.


btw. Some interesting facts of Moscow Underground.
It longest underground in world, if counting only under ground. 257 kilometers under ground.
Serpukhovsko-Temiryazevskaya line (9) is longest only under ground line in world with 41km to long. :)


@justme
hey, you nothing to say about MRR pics... so you opnions...?

[coth]

Official map of all rails of Moscow Railroads
small version: http://www.mzd.ru/schemes.php?razd=all

large version
http://www.mzd.ru/images/map/all/big/1_1.gifhttp://www.mzd.ru/images/map/all/big/1_2.gifhttp://www.mzd.ru/images/map/all/big/1_3.gifhttp://www.mzd.ru/images/map/all/big/1_4.gifhttp://www.mzd.ru/images/map/all/big/1_5.gif
http://www.mzd.ru/images/map/all/big/2_1.gifhttp://www.mzd.ru/images/map/all/big/2_2.gifhttp://www.mzd.ru/images/map/all/big/2_3.gifhttp://www.mzd.ru/images/map/all/big/2_4.gifhttp://www.mzd.ru/images/map/all/big/2_5.gif
http://www.mzd.ru/images/map/all/big/3_1.gifhttp://www.mzd.ru/images/map/all/big/3_2.gifhttp://www.mzd.ru/images/map/all/big/3_3.gifhttp://www.mzd.ru/images/map/all/big/3_4.gifhttp://www.mzd.ru/images/map/all/big/3_5.gif
http://www.mzd.ru/images/map/all/big/4_1.gifhttp://www.mzd.ru/images/map/all/big/4_2.gifhttp://www.mzd.ru/images/map/all/big/4_3.gifhttp://www.mzd.ru/images/map/all/big/4_4.gifhttp://www.mzd.ru/images/map/all/big/4_5.gif
http://www.mzd.ru/images/map/all/big/5_1.gifhttp://www.mzd.ru/images/map/all/big/5_2.gifhttp://www.mzd.ru/images/map/all/big/5_3.gifhttp://www.mzd.ru/images/map/all/big/5_4.gifhttp://www.mzd.ru/images/map/all/big/5_5.gif

[Justme]

@coth, yes, thanks for the great photo's. I just forgot to mention them.

and thanks for the official map. Interesting that most of the commuter rail appears to go South, and little North. I wonder why that is?

Tokyo would be much more than 3000km. It's network is breathtaking, and London also would be as well.

I did find a link ages ago that claimed London's commuter route km's, were around the 3500km mark, but I can't find this anymore, and I want to verify it again before I post (especially to have a good description of what area that covers)

[coth]

Originally posted by Justme
and thanks for the official map. Interesting that most of the commuter rail appears to go South, and little North. I wonder why that is?
your welcome;)
about question, so MRR is big national Railroad company it working not only in Moscow, they covers all central russia with over 9000kms of rails, I ask this question on official page forum of MRR - www.mzd.ru and waiting for answer...

[Vertigo]

@Justme: for LDN I would say the former "Network SouthEast" lines... people in uk.railway could probably give network length for that.

[coth]

Wow guys. Check out new train "Spoutnik" for Yaroslav direction. It driving between central station and mytishi (largest city in moscow province in 3 km from City of Moscow).
18 kms in 18 minutes, of course with stops on all stations. Commercial speed is 60kph, so not bad. Maximum speed - 130kmph. Train divided into 6 cars with 3 doors on both sides.
It puted to line on 24th january. At now puted 3 new trains, but until july planed to put 12 trains for Moscow Yaroslavl - Mytishi line and 42 trains for all urban rails.
Train is concept of hybrid of suburban and underground. It have new 200 patented recent technologies.
It a begins of plans to combine of underground with suburban line in near suburb. In other words - combine present 12 lines of underground with 12 lines of suburban rails and plus small ring railroad.
Cost of new train is 408mln p. ($14.3mln or 11.2mln€)
Cost of construction of new platforms on stations and terminate stations is 2.6bln p. ($90.5mln or 72.2mln€)

Videos: http://www.rzd.ru/museum/index_video.html?he_id=866

direct links (files in WMV format and unfortunately have russian letters in filenames, so try to just puting this to reget and save with another name)
Train
http://www.rzd.ru/images/download.html?pi_id=10484 (small)
http://www.rzd.ru/images/download.html?pi_id=10485 (large)


RZD presentation (Rossiyskiye Zhelezniye Dorogi - Russian RailRoads)
http://www.rzd.ru/images/download.html?pi_id=9901 (small)
http://www.rzd.ru/images/download.html?pi_id=9902 (large)

Photos I not found :(

[Justme]

Originally posted by Vertigo

@Justme: for LDN I would say the former "Network SouthEast" lines... people in uk.railway could probably give network length for that.

Year, I agree. Covering the area one would think it's quite easy to find, but in all my searches, and questions to "those in the know", I've just come up with blanks.

[alexbn]

If you want the official maps of the integrated network of Barcelona, Spain, you can find them in pdf at:

All zones (http://www.atm-transmet.org/pdfs_cat/A.3%20ATM%20Global.pdf)
Only zone 1 (http://www.atm-transmet.org/pdfs_cat/A.3%20ATM%20Central.pdf)

Hope you find them useful!!

[Justme]

Originally posted by alexbn

If you want the official maps of the integrated network of Barcelona, Spain, you can find them in pdf at:

All zones (http://www.atm-transmet.org/pdfs_cat/A.3%20ATM%20Global.pdf)
Only zone 1 (http://www.atm-transmet.org/pdfs_cat/A.3%20ATM%20Central.pdf)

Hope you find them useful!!

thanks for the links, great maps, and I always prefer pdf.

[coth]

cool maps! i like design. it similar to paris metro map.

[coth]

here is something transport official information I found on official moscow site

http://mos.ru/cgi-bin/pbl_web?vid=2&osn_id=0&id_rub=1716&news_unom=23158



Stats only for City of Moscow (without province) for 2002

Total Cars: 2 301 500

Public Transport:

Bus:
6328 buses
6015,9 kms of network
541 routes
2 634 800 000 passengers in year.

Trolley:
1569 trolleys
922,9 kms of network
86 routes
1 171 200 000 passengers in year.

Tram:
853 trams
402,1 kms of network
37 routes
960 200 000 passengers in year.

Bus:
6328 buses
6015,9 kms of network
541 routes
2 634 800 000 passengers in year.

Underground:
267,4 kms of network (276,1kms at now)
164 station (170 stations at now)
3 200 100 000 passengers in year.



also I found something more information about commuter network
so new stats including expresses lines and excluding with closed services.

Moscow Commuter Lines total stats

Name of Line (Company) - Stations, Length

Leningrad direction (October Railroads, St. Petersburg) - 41, 203km
Riga's direction (Moscow Rairoads) - 40, 157km
Smolensk direction (Moscow Railroads) - 64, 288km
Kiev direction (Moscow Railroads) - 42, 200km
Tula's direction (Moscow Railroads) - 45, 391km
Paveletsk direction (Moscow Railroads) - 74, 401km
Kasan' and Ryasan' directions (Moscow Railroads) - 129, 506km
Vladimir direction (Moscow Railroads) - 57, 232km
Yaroslav direction (Moscow Railroads) - 74, 336km
Savelov direction (Moscow Railroads) - 39, 174km
Circle Line (Moscow Railroads) - 145, 570km

Total: 750 stations, 3458 kilometers!


Tramway lines not changed since 2002, so
Underground 276km + Tram 402km + Commuter 3458km =
4136 kilometers!!!

[Justme]

Cool, thanks coth.

Here's something I found on London's main rail infrastructure.

It gives two figures. In the beginning at page 8 it describes the commuter rail in the south east currently as 4642km (Route km). It also show's the former Network Southeast corridor with a total route length of 3640km.

[SGruenwdt]

I dont know why Hannover is listed only as Streetcar / Tram network. Right would be Stadtbahn "lightrail" with metro parts about 20km of the Lightrail is underground in Hannover! The Stadtbahn "light rail" is right now 116,6km long, with its 12 lines.

more info on my page www.stadtbahn-hannover.de.vu (in german and english)

Grüni

[Justme]

Originally posted by SGruenwdt

I dont know why Hannover is listed only as Streetcar / Tram network. Right would be Stadtbahn "lightrail" with metro parts about 20km of the Lightrail is underground in Hannover! The Stadtbahn "light rail" is right now 116,6km long, with its 12 lines.

more info on my page www.stadtbahn-hannover.de.vu (in german and english)

Grüni

cheers, I have updated the list.

That's a real interesting web page you have.

[coth]

Wow 4642kms. Yeah - it World's Rails Father :D
but it still interesting, how long network of tokyo...



btw. Justme, update Moscow
tramway length to 402,1kms
and
commuter network to 3458kms
http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65822&perpage=20&pagenumber=7 (last post on page)


and make top 10 with all rails :)

[Justme]

Originally posted by coth

Wow 4642kms. Yeah - it World's Rails Father :D
but it still interesting, how long network of tokyo...



btw. Justme, update Moscow
tramway length to 402,1kms
and
commuter network to 3458kms
http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65822&perpage=20&pagenumber=7 (last post on page)


and make top 10 with all rails :)

Year, and the figure was staring at me all along on the official website, I just never found that pdf until now...

Tokyo I believe is still longer, damn I would love to get that figure, but I think I must brush up on my Japanese first ;)

I updated the list with your Moscow figures, but you just linked this page??

Has the tram lines lost some km, as I had around 416km before?

[coth]

well in 1995-2001 was demolished over half of Moscow tramw network

[coth]

@Justme

By the way. Length of SPB metro is 107kms. Correct it.

[hokomoko]

Bursa is the 4 th large populated city and there is 2 lines LRT built and opened in 2003 by Siemens . Total length is 17km's.
Bursa Lrt: (http://wowturkey.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4182)

Izmir is the 2nd greater city in western coast of Turkey and heres a link to see some pix. Total length is 13Km's extentions still under construction.
Izmir Lrt: (http://wowturkey.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5638)

[Vertigo]

Thanks for the information.

The Bursa system looks more like a (light) metro (3rd rail electrification, grade seperated...).

[hokomoko]

You like to say that for Izmir Lrt I guess ... yes Izmir system is operating wth 3 rd rail system.
Meanwhile heres some tram pictures from Antalya.There is a 6 km's single track tram route and free for tourists I took some picture there in the summer heres the all pictures...
the tram units are once rode in Nurnberg:
pix from antalya and trams. (http://hokomoko.fotopages.com/?entry=43765)
http://wowturkey2.com/upload/04280038.jpg

[hokomoko]

The construction of 1000 mm gauge double track 2 lined tram system of Eskisehir (a city in central Anatolia Turkey wth 500.000 population) will be complated end by March 2004. The track length will be 15 Km's.The rolling stock is Bombardier City runner and the 18 articles are continueing to delivery.
http://wowturkey2.com/tr4/estram_hokomoko.jpg
+
http://www.wowturkey2.com/upload/estam.jpg

[hokomoko]

Konya is another tram city in central Turkey.here still the extention or construction of new lines under construction.But here you can see the ex Köln Siemens articulated trams like a nostalgic parade on the 18 Km existing tracks of konya.This line was second opened line in Turkey in the year 1991.
http://wowturkey2.com/upload/11212_89.jpg
+
http://wowturkey2.com/upload/32828_2d.jpg
+
http://wowturkey2.com/upload/32836_2d.jpg

[Vertigo]

You like to say that for Izmir Lrt I guess ... yes Izmir system is operating wth 3 rd rail system.

Yes, I meant the Izmir system.

Thanks for the information and pics. All these systems were unknown to me.

:)

[hokomoko]

Adana is an agricultural center in Southern Turkey.Heres some pictures of the Hyundai Addtranz wehicles.The construction will be ended for 14 kms and 13 stations LRT system in 2005.
http://wowturkey2.com/upload/122.jpg
+
http://wowturkey2.com/upload/13.jpg

[Kommandant Mark]

GSP "Beograd" (Gradsko Saobracajno Preduzece "Beograd" - City Transport Company of Belgrade) launched its new website today and there's some info about trams there.

http://www.gspbeograd.com/

Belgrade has 12 tramway lines and a total network of
127.3 kilometers.


Belgrade also's got a City/Urban Railway, "Beovoz", which connects the city center with outlying municapalities and suburbs.

BEOVOZ City Railway holds four lines within the Belgrade railway network: Batajnica-Panèevo, Panèevo-Resnik, Resnik-Batajnica
and Lajkovac-Zemun-Panèevo.

http://www.beograd.co.yu/english/upoznaj/saobrac/beovoz/bvoz-lg.gif

http://www.beograd.co.yu/english/upoznaj/saobrac/beovoz/beovozln.gif

http://www.beograd.org.yu/english/upoznaj/saobrac/beovoz/bvozlin.jpg

I'm not sure about its lenght - will have to look it up:)

And this is how the Beovoz trains look like - rumor is, they will be replaced with more modern, locally produced, trains soon.

http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/yu/electric/emu/jz412%2B414_beograd.jpg

[Steve1984]

Liverpool actually has an underground and local rail network.

Lime Street/Cental/Moorfields and James Street are all undergound stops and the Wirral Line goes underneath the River Mersey to the other side.

http://home.wanadoo.nl/jlm/map.gif

Liverpool will also have a tram network by 2008 for Capital of Culture 2008:

http://www.merseytram.co.uk

:hi:

[Vertigo]

I believe Justme (who tried to compose this complete list) has suddenly disappeared from the forums... :(

[coth]

no, he is there, he just not reply in this topic...

[Justme]

Year, I'm back, I've been away for a month travelling the South Seas. I don't like touching computers on vacation (I'm a network engineer and get enough of them at work) so I've been outa touch. Just got back a coupla days ago.

I'll get around to updating this list, but I just don't have time to read through everything that was suggested since I left at the moment, but I promise to get to it some time this week.

I'm really happy with where this thread has been going, and don't want to loose it.

Thanks guys for keeping it alive during my absence.

:cheers:

[coth]

@Justme.
I have a good idea - you must make your own site with this statistics.

[coth]

@Just me
I again mistaked with my calculations of length of Moscow Under ground.
I found official information about it.
Length of Underground and Light Rails is 276.1 kms.
So change it please.

here is interesting information and facts about moscow underground (in russian)
use www.online-translator.com to translate it or babel fish
http://metro.molot.ru/facts.shtml

[Vertigo]

@Justme: good to see you're back. I was starting to worry, as you were reported "missing" in some other thread on SSC. ;)

don't like touching computers on vacation

Excactly my thoughts; usually I spend quite some time on the internet, but when travelling I rahter go see and experience things than sitting behind a computer...

[Justme]

Originally posted by Vertigo

@Justme: good to see you're back. I was starting to worry, as you were reported "missing" in some other thread on SSC. ;)



Excactly my thoughts; usually I spend quite some time on the internet, but when travelling I rahter go see and experience things than sitting behind a computer...

wow someone actually missed me :cheers:

ok, I think tomorrow I'll go through this thread and make the corrections, I'm just getting over my jetlag now. Damn I hate those long flights!

[Justme]

ok, I finally got me butt into gear and made the updates listed while I was away. Sorry about the delay.

:cheers:

[coth]

bump

[nick_taylor]

I just read today that by 2010 the government wants 25 NEW tram networks in the UK - and that aint including extensions to existing networks :O

Now all I can think these could be are:
- West London Tram
- Cross River Tram (Central London)
- Liverpool
- South Hampshire (Portsmouth tram)
- Leeds
- Greenwich Maritime Transit (London)
- East London Tram

but the others - I don't have a clue :?

[coth]

networks means routes?


Moscow also planed to built fast tram lines. First route will be open in 2006.
http://www.regions.ru/article/any/id/1445826.html

Saint Petersburg, where is located world's longest tram network, also planed to big expansion and reconstruction by 2007. As minimum 6 new lines. It is priced in 6bln p. (about $205mln). One new route will be completed this year.
http://www.abnews.ru/type_news_full.html?t=76677&data=news

translators
www.online-translator.com
babelfish.altavista.com

[Justme]

^ Saint Petersburg really has one of the longest networks, I've been looking for a good network map for quite a while, but can't find anything detailed.

[hoody]

I just read today that by 2010 the government wants 25 NEW tram networks in the UK - and that aint including extensions to existing networks :O

Now all I can think these could be are:
- West London Tram
- Cross River Tram (Central London)
- Liverpool
- South Hampshire (Portsmouth tram)
- Leeds
- Greenwich Maritime Transit (London)
- East London Tram

but the others - I don't have a clue :?

and they say LOndon doesn'r swallow up other regions money, London has buses, trams, ,heavy rail, underground!

i think its about time focus shifts to other areas of the country

[kotarana]

Here are 2 links to maps of St. Petersburg Metro:

Map in Russian - http://www.kommet.spb.ru/station/

Map in English - http://petersburgcity.com/map/metro/

Both maps are clickable.

[Justme]

Here are 2 links to maps of St. Petersburg Metro:

Map in Russian - http://www.kommet.spb.ru/station/

Map in English - http://petersburgcity.com/map/metro/

Both maps are clickable.

cheers kotarana. Wouldn't happen to have maps for the tram network as well, they're really hard to find. :cheers:

[empersouf]

Nice list

[coth]

Here are 2 links to maps of St. Petersburg Metro:

Map in Russian - http://www.kommet.spb.ru/station/

Map in English - http://petersburgcity.com/map/metro/

Both maps are clickable.
Superb detailed map!



Justme, go here, you will found here shots of all stations of Moscow, St. Petersburg, Lower Novgorod and Samara's undergrounds.
http://www.metrowalks.ru

unfortunately site cannot be traslated by online traslators, but you can use text translations (copy-paste) on babelfish or online-translator.com

check out this
http://www.metrowalks.ru/moscow/photo-9-24-8, don't you found it very similar to hitech? of course it is still not hitech, but very alike...
station built in 2001, it is second from last station of world's longest only underground line
http://www.metrowalks.ru/moscow/line-9

[Justme]

^wonderful pictures, thanks Coth. There's no doubt that the metro stations in these two Russian cities are some of the finest in the world.

Wouldn't have that S.P'burg tram map handy though ;O)

[kotarana]

Here is a site which seems to have most of the subway, train and tram maps for Russia:

http://parovoz.com/maps/index-e.html

including tram map of St Petersburg.

[coth]

^wonderful pictures, thanks Coth. There's no doubt that the metro stations in these two Russian cities are some of the finest in the world.

Wouldn't have that S.P'burg tram map handy though ;O)I willtry to find something on sunday, tommorow I will not be at home, until late evening

[Justme]

@ kotarana, thanks that's a great link page. Although I had that S.P'burg tram map already. I was looking for a more "schematic" one, you know, like the metro maps. cheers anyway, I'm sure to discouver some great other maps there.

@coth, no worries mate, I rarely look at these forums on the weekend, so I'll probably be nicely surprised on Monday.

[Kommandant Mark]

Soon, Justme should add Belgrade to the list - under "metro":)
Today, the initial contract for the construction of the first line was signed - the construction should start in 2005 and the line will be around 15 kilometers long.

Finally, the largest city in Europe without a metro ... looks like it will get it:)

[Justme]

^ cool. When it's complete add a post to this forum, and I'll update the list ;) I'll probably still be here.....

[DiggerD21]

I would add the S-Bahn of Hamburg and Berlin to the Metro-System.

- they look like metros
- they are independent from other rail traffic and are electrified
- distance between the stations is nearly as short as in the U-Bahn System
- they act like metros with a relatively high frequency


Hamburg U- und S-Bahn (http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/ham/hamburg.htm)

Berlin U- und S-Bahn (http://de.geocities.com/u_bln/berlin.htm)

[nick_taylor]

and they say LOndon doesn'r swallow up other regions money, London has buses, trams, ,heavy rail, underground!

i think its about time focus shifts to other areas of the country


Yeah but London is home to some 7.1 million people, has the density to support such networks and also has a metro of around 17-18 million people.

If you have a problem with it - attract international corporations. London is the financial capital of the world, so if you can beat that then that would be great - but highly doubtful. Then again the South pays on average more for the north and everything :)

If your still not happy with it - do something about it - make Birmingham the centre of the world, with a population of 7.1million and a metro of around 18million. But till then - no, you will have to stick with what you have.

[Justme]

S-bahns are in every German city, but they still are commuter class trains. (at least the ones I have seen). It is common still for commuter class trains to work like metro's in city centers (Paris, Barcelona, Sydney etc etc) but they are still a seperate system.

If you have the full accurate length details of these S-bahns and R-bahns in German cities, I would be very happy.

[alexbn]

It is common still for commuter class trains to work like metro's in city centers (Paris, Barcelona, Sydney etc etc) but they are still a seperate system.

I think the case of Barcelona is curious (I don't know about others). Let's see: the commuter line R1 from Renfe uses the same tunnel as the metro line L1 from TMB (in several zones, not always, of course). Some stations are the same for the two lines (Catalunya, for example). BUT the tracks are always different: the two central ones are for Renfe and the other two are for TMB. Even the trains of the metro line accept more passengers (950) than some of the commuter line (750; other trains accept 1.500). Curious, isn't it?

[DiggerD21]

According to Urbanrail.net (http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/euromet.htm):

"The Hamburg S-Bahn has a total length of 115.2km (8km single-track, 10km underground) with 59 stations, of which 10 are underground"

Picture of a Hamburg S-Bahn
http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/ham/s1-wedel1x.jpg


"The Berlin S-Bahn may be considered a metro in its own right for the following reasons:
- it is mainly an urban means of transport (total length 327km, of which 250km are within the city of Berlin)
- it is totally independent from other rail traffic (third rail power supply)
- it operates at quite dense intervals (3-4 minutes) along the central routes (bundled lines)."

Picture of a Berlin S-Bahn
http://de.geocities.com/u_bln/sb-ostbhf.jpg

Source: Urbanrail.net

[Vertigo]

Hmm, the Berlin S-Bahn used to share some tracks with mainline railroads. And while they usually don't do in normal operation, mainline (diesel) trains can run on S-Bahn tracks on the Stadtbahn.

Also, the S-Bahn has quite some raid/road crossings in the suburbs.

So I wouldn't count it as a metro.

[Never]

Newcastle Upon Tyne, England has a metro, which you didn't put on your original list Just me (any way still a great list). Newcastle's metro is more like a subway in some parts as it goes deep underground below the city and built up areas.

Here's Newcastle's Metro.
http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/new/newcastle-map.gif
http://www.subways.net/uk/t&wmetro[1].gif
http://www.subways.net/uk/Tyne.jpg
http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/new/tynemouth1xstairs.jpg

For more info CLICK HERE (http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/new/newcastle.htm)

[Vertigo]

A subway (American definition) is usually a metro. However, a metro is not always a subway. :)

[kotarana]

Interesting! I admit I haven't given it that much thought but it's my understanding that metro, subway, underground are all different word for the same thing basically - electric underground railway. Is the term metro in some way different than subway?
Or are you refereing to the other definiton for metro, i.e. metropolitan area?

[Vertigo]

This has been discussed before, and be warned that opinions do vary on this matter.

A METRO is not very difficult to define. It's an urban rail system, designed for a high capacity (which, for example, means high platforms) that's completely seperated from other forms of traffic and transit. Which is why metros are often either underground or elevated.

Contrary to what many people think, a metro does not have to be underground entirely. The oldest metro in the world, the London Underground, despite its name, has more mileage above ground than underground.

A SUBWAY, in the American use of the word, originally means an underground urban transit system, as opposed to an elevated urban transit system, which is called ELEVATED or EL. Both would qualify as metro systems. New York used to have quite some portions of elevated trackage on Manhattan, and it can still be found in the other boroughs of NYC. Chicago, of course, is famous for it's elevated going a "loop" through downtown.

Now comes the confusion: in many cities, the subway was either merged with the "el" system, or the subway was extended on elevated sections. But the name "subway" remained. So in many cases, including NYC, subway now essentially means "metro", including both underground and elevated sections. Compare it to the London "Underground" example above.

To make it short, subway, Underground, elevated, tube, etc. are all "local" words for what are essentially different forms of metro systems.

To make matters more complicated, in Britain a subway refers to a pedestrian underpass. In London, often Underground stations can also be used as underpass, so beneath the sign Underground there will be a word "subway", which in this case does NOT refer to the metro system.

Confused yet? :)

I could go on and point out that there are many hybrid systems in the world, especially the German Stadtbahn systems which run like a metro in the downtown area, but act as light rail in the suburbs, including crossings with other forms of traffic.

[Justme]

This has been discussed before, and be warned that opinions do vary on this matter.

A METRO is not very difficult to define. It's an urban rail system, designed for a high capacity (which, for example, means high platforms) that's completely seperated from other forms of traffic and transit. Which is why metros are often either underground or elevated.

Contrary to what many people think, a metro does not have to be underground entirely. The oldest metro in the world, the London Underground, despite its name, has more mileage above ground than underground.

A SUBWAY, in the American use of the word, originally means an underground urban transit system, as opposed to an elevated urban transit system, which is called ELEVATED or EL. Both would qualify as metro systems. New York used to have quite some portions of elevated trackage on Manhattan, and it can still be found in the other boroughs of NYC. Chicago, of course, is famous for it's elevated going a "loop" through downtown.

Now comes the confusion: in many cities, the subway was either merged with the "el" system, or the subway was extended on elevated sections. But the name "subway" remained. So in many cases, including NYC, subway now essentially means "metro", including both underground and elevated sections. Compare it to the London "Underground" example above.

To make it short, subway, Underground, elevated, tube, etc. are all "local" words for what are essentially different forms of metro systems.

To make matters more complicated, in Britain a subway refers to a pedestrian underpass. In London, often Underground stations can also be used as underpass, so beneath the sign Underground there will be a word "subway", which in this case does NOT refer to the metro system.

Confused yet? :)

I could go on and point out that there are many hybrid systems in the world, especially the German Stadtbahn systems which run like a metro in the downtown area, but act as light rail in the suburbs, including crossings with other forms of traffic.

Vertigo is quite correct in his definitions. Probably the most generic and best term is "metro", which means neither above, elevated or submerged "urban railways". Of historical fact, the first "metro" in the world was the original London Underground line which still exists today and is called the metropolitan line. Paris took this term the metropolitan, for it's own network, shortening it to "metro".

Metro's are basically intended for the central parts of the city, due to their design of smaller trains, plenty of doors, and room for short distance travels. The best metro's work exclusively in the central area, operating as a matrix (or spiderweb) design, with lines crossing lines, and crossing through the central area to the otherside. On some big networks, the lines may extend out into the suburbs, but usually only the inner suburbs as the longer they go out, the less efficient they are as subways when compared to commuter rail.

One very important rule for a metro, is that it does not share rails with freight.

Commuter or suburban rail is designed for bringing commuters into the central area from the suburbs or metro area. Some of these networks, such as the RER in Paris, the S-bahns across Germany, Cross Rail etc in London and the Sydney and Melbourne suburban networks may operate almost like a metro in the central area, however, the majority of their network is still a commuter system (almost always different to a metro in that being a radial (or spoke/hub) design.

Most city's in Europe have an extensive suburban commuter network seperated from a dedicated metro. Some city's these merge into each other to make them a bit more complicated, but usually it's quite clear as to what form they are. Germany, divides them even further with an R-bahn, or regional rail, which also operates like a commuter network within the metro area's.

Commuter or Suburban trains can have (but don't need to have) freight trains sharing the lines.

hope this helps.

[Vertigo]

Commuter or Subway trains can have (but don't need to have) freight trains sharing the lines.

I suppose you mean suburban, not subway in this case?

Indeed, commuter trains often share tracks with both passenger and freight trains. In some cities, especially in smaller countries, the differences between commuter, regional and long distance trains are fairly small.

In very large cities, commuter trains are often clearly seperated from other mainline trains in brand, tariff, on maps, etc.; and there they often also (partly) have their own tracks, which makes it look a bit like a metro.

[Justme]

I suppose you mean suburban, not subway in this case?

Indeed, commuter trains often share tracks with both passenger and freight trains. In some cities, especially in smaller countries, the differences between commuter, regional and long distance trains are fairly small.

In very large cities, commuter trains are often clearly seperated from other mainline trains in brand, tariff, on maps, etc.; and there they often also (partly) have their own tracks, which makes it look a bit like a metro.

year, typo, I meant suburban rather than subway

[Colossus]

I just read Charleroi in Belgium has also a small metro system. Or subway whatever ... :)
Read this one:
http://www.reed.edu/~reyn/transport.html

[Vertigo]

Actually it's what the Belgians call a "pre-metro": a tram / light rail system that's partly underground or elevated. The underground and elevated sections are prepared to be rebuilt to a "full metro". Such systems have been built in Brussels, Charleroi and Antwerp, but only the Brussels system was (partly) rebuilt to metro. The other systems are still used by trams, though both Antwerp and especially Charleroi have quite some unused tunnel sections.

[Colossus]

Actually it's what the Belgians call a "pre-metro": a tram / light rail system that's partly underground or elevated. The underground and elevated sections are prepared to be rebuilt to a "full metro". Such systems have been built in Brussels, Charleroi and Antwerp, but only the Brussels system was (partly) rebuilt to metro. The other systems are still used by trams, though both Antwerp and especially Charleroi have quite some unused tunnel sections.

Yeah right i travel very often by pre-metro in Antwerp. It starts as tram, dives below the river Scheldt and stays 'underground' until central station, then for the surbs it turns into tram again.

I travelled the Brussels metro line 1A day before yesterday. It appears to be 'digged' underground for several parts indeed.

The Antwerp metro really looks like a tram from the outside. But are you sure about the Charleroi system being elevated? The trains have the 'look' of a real metro, though it doesn't say anything, of course. If you have more online information you would do me a real favour providing me with any links!

[poller1]

The best link is Urbanrail.net, which has updated its information for Antwerp, Brussels and Charleroi.

[Vertigo]

The Antwerp metro really looks like a tram from the outside. But are you sure about the Charleroi system being elevated? The trains have the 'look' of a real metro, though it doesn't say anything, of course. If you have more online information you would do me a real favour providing me with any links!

Yes, I'm sure about that. A Charleroi tram in an underground section:
http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/be/trams/Charleroi/0002.jpg

An elevated section:
http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/be/trams/Charleroi/0013.jpg

And finally, a tram on street level:
http://www.amsterdamsetram.nl/images20030223tec/matynroos199xTECcharlerio20.jpg

[Wizard04]

Athens Metro, existing line with planned extensions.

http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/ath/athens-future.gif

Omonia station.
http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/ath/omonia2.jpg

Omonia station again.
http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/ath/omonia1.jpg

Akropolis station.
http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/ath/akropoli2.jpg

Syntagma station.
http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/ath/syntagma1.jpg

[Wizard04]

Metro, tram and suburban light rail lines.

http://www.demetriorizzo.it/mappa3b.jpg

[coth]

bump.


i have a some new information about lenght of tram network. I will put it tommorow...

[AmiDelf]

We have a underground here in Norway too :) But also trams. We dont have lightrail as in Europe.


http://trikkogbane.info/bilder/kjelsas.jpg
Here is a picture of a tram going direction Kjelsås. It closed for about a year ago, but now the goverment and green parties have made it possible to restart this line from November this year! I am happy!

http://trikkogbane.info/bilder/11-01-04.jpg
Now the snow or whatever is there just for nothing. It will be better in November though.

http://trikkogbane.info/bilder/homansby.jpg
This line is still active. Thanks to people which fights for trams. Like me.

http://trikkogbane.info/gifs/trikken.jpg
As for now. This is how the tram map is looking. For Oslo that is.

http://trikkogbane.info/bilder/04012805.jpg
http://trikkogbane.info/bilder/04012808.jpg
When it snows in Oslo, it snows :)

I hope you like it.
(pics is taken by Roger Sandberg)

Michal.

[coth]

Just me.

At first about Moscow.
Tram network in Moscow decreased. New stats.
Length: 370,4km
Busyness: 703,4mln passengers
Cars: 860
Routes: 38

Underground not changed.
Length: 276,1km
Unwrap length: 793,7km
Busyness: 3200,6mln passengers
Stations: 170
Interchange stations: 56
Lines: 12
Escalators: 577

Other rails inside city border is 415,4km

So total in city borders is 1062km. Unwrap length of all rails is over 4000km.

Total region passenger rail network is 4105km. Plus some cities in Moscow metro also have tram networks and listed here, like Kolomna (20,2km), Krasnoarmeisk (10,2km) and Noginsk (13,7km). So 4105 + 20,2 + 10,2 + 13,7 = 4149km of rail passengers network in Moscow region.

Unwrap length of all rails is over 12000km.

[Vertigo]

We have a underground here in Norway too But also trams. We dont have lightrail as in Europe

A special feature of the Olso metro is that it goes far out into the hills, through the woods with railway crossings, etc! Pretty nice...! :)

[NorthStar77]

/\ yeah it's pretty special. It gets you right into the forests just 15 minutes from downtown! But some of them metro lines in western direction can also be called lightrail, as the capacity on them are not so high as in the rest of the system(platforms can only take 3-4 wagons compared to 6+ for the rest of the system). The local residents on the western lines also just call it "trikken", Norwegian for "tram".

[coth]

hmm, where is justme gone?
last time he was on forum in 2nd june.

[gruber]

Milano, in Italy, have a commuter railway company: Ferrovie Nord Milano, with 6 lines, more than 250 km of railways and more than 120 stations in the Milano Metropolitan Area.
there's also another commuter railway: the Regional/FFSS, the national railways.
the Milano Metropolitan Area Railways are called "S1", "S2"...
more, the Milano's subway today is 70.2 km long with a new staton in the line 3.
there also another subway sistem, the Passante Ferroviario.
it'a a tunnel of 13 km connected in 4 stations with the subway sistem.
this tunnel and the 8 station are used by the National Railways, by the Regional Railways "S" and by the Metropolitan Area Rialways F.N.M.
The trains run every 3 minutes during rush hours and is a real subway line.
so, the total of Milano Subway is 83 km.

there's also a Light Rail, a people mover monorail that clinked the Subway Line 2 with the San Raffaele Hospital. the LR is long more or less 1 km.

ciao


http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/mil/milanmap.gif

[Justme]

hmm, where is justme gone?
last time he was on forum in 2nd june.

been in London on business for two weeks, and despite being back in Frankfurt now, still really busy. It maybe a couple more weeks before I can frequent this forum to my usual extents.

cheers coth :cheers: nice to know I've been missed :)

[coth]

So, welcome back :hi: :cheers:

[hokomoko]

I am also a tram fighter and I love so much these pictures.Thanks for sharing and snow is really covers in Oslo like no where in elsewhere...

[Met]

Barcelona new Tram network (light rail) opened on April 3rd.
Just 3 lines (T1,T2,T3) on the north of Barcelona, known as Trambaix.
14,2 Km
2.034.283 passangers in just 3 months!!!! :cheers:

http://www.trambcn.com/phtml/admin/fotos/REC/planol_t1t2t3.jpeg
lenght from "St. Martí de l'Erm - Consell Comarcal" will open on winter.

http://www.photoways.com/photos/2/2/222505/zoom/1070222505.jpg
http://www.photoways.com/photos/2/2/222505/zoom/1064222505.jpg
http://www.photoways.com/photos/2/2/222505/zoom/579222505.jpg
http://www.photoways.com/photos/2/2/222505/zoom/582222505.jpg

Last line, T4, opened on the south and known as Trambesòs.
Started on May 8th

http://www.trambcn.com/phtml/admin/fotos/REC/planol_t4.gif
lenght from "Glòries to Ciutadella/Vila Olímpica" will open this July.
6,52 Km
A new line T5, will be open on 2005 with more than 8 Km...

http://www.photoways.com/photos/2/2/222505/zoom/341222505.jpg
http://www.photoways.com/photos/2/2/222505/zoom/344222505.jpg
http://www.photoways.com/photos/2/2/222505/zoom/345222505.jpg
http://www.photoways.com/photos/2/2/222505/zoom/350222505.jpg
http://www.photoways.com/photos/2/2/222505/zoom/347222505.jpg

All trams are Citadis 302 by Alstom.

a10! :runaway:

[Vertigo]

The Barcelona Citadis trams are awesome. Some good looking highrises there, too.

[alexbn]

Today's news from Barcelona: line T4 of the light rail is to be completed this afternoon with the inauguration of the last 1,8 km, from Glòries to Ciutadella-Vila Olímpica. So the integrated railway system (metro + tram + rodalies [commuter train] + funicular) reaches 676 km today.

[Justme]

Today's news from Barcelona: line T4 of the light rail is to be completed this afternoon with the inauguration of the last 1,8 km, from Glòries to Ciutadella-Vila Olímpica. So the integrated railway system (metro + tram + rodalies [commuter train] + funicular) reaches 676 km today.

So, as of today, the total tram length is 19.7km? I'll add that to the list, thanks.

How long will it be when completed next year?

[Adderbak]

Hey, maybe I'm ignorant and should have read this thread, but has this link already shown up?

http://www.lrta.org/world/worldind.html

[Trisuno]

Lyon's tram
Alstom Citadis
http://tramateurs.free.fr/tram_lyon/tram_lyon-Images/1.jpg
http://tramateurs.free.fr/tram_lyon/tram_lyon-Images/4.jpg
http://www.equipement.gouv.fr/actualites/images/Tram/Lyon-BdJean%20XXIII1.jpg
http://tramateurs.free.fr/tram_lyon/tram_lyon-Images/6.jpg

[zafiris]

New photos for Athens.

http://assets.in.gr/dGenesis/assets/Content200/Photo/10708_b.jpg

Some aerials

http://linuxweb.internet.gr/tramsa/media/common/photos/grafeio_typou/fotografies_9.jpg http://linuxweb.internet.gr/tramsa/media/common/screen_10.jpg
http://linuxweb.internet.gr/tramsa/media/common/photos/grafeio_typou/fotografies_10.jpg

[alexbn]

So, as of today, the total tram length is 19.7km? I'll add that to the list, thanks.
How long will it be when completed next year?Today's total lenght is 18.8 km (12.2 for the Trambaix and 6.6 for the Trambesòs). This is because the total lenght of the Trambaix will be reached next year (the 14.2 km which Met talked about). Trambesòs is to be finished by 2006 with the new line T5. The total lenght will then be ca. 28-29 km.

Now:
Metro 104.6 km
Tram 18.8 km
Funiculars 1.5 km
Commuter rail 551.6 km
TOTAL of the integrated network: 676.5 km

[Justme]

cheers, I updated that now.

couple of questions:

1) Does the new funicular that goes up to the telecommunications/observation town go all the way?

2) Do the funicular's include all in the metro area (including Montserrat - which also has a cog railway if I am mistaken)

3) I understand that the aerial cable cars on Montjuic that go up to the fort are being renovated, do you know what renovations are happening

4) Just of interest, are there any commuter ferry networks in Barcelona (the harbour area) and to other beaches/cities in the metro?

5) Will the tram lines 1/2/3 meet up with line 4?

cheers for the update... ;) :cheers:

[alexbn]

1) Does the new funicular that goes up to the telecommunications/observation town go all the way?Do you mean the Tibidabo funicular?



2) Do the funicular's include all in the metro area (including Montserrat - which also has a cog railway if I am mistaken)Only Vallvidrera (0.7 km) and Montjuïc (0.8 km) are integrated. The rest aren't. Neither is Cremallera de Montserrat (cog railway).



3) I understand that the aerial cable cars on Montjuic that go up to the fort are being renovated, do you know what renovations are happeningIt is a complete renovation to improve the capacity of the service. What exactly, I don't know.



4) Just of interest, are there any commuter ferry networks in Barcelona (the harbour area) and to other beaches/cities in the metro?Only touristic routes in Barcelona ("golondrinas").



5) Will the tram lines 1/2/3 meet up with line 4?Up to now there are no plans for that. Maybe from 2010 on, but not now.

[Justme]

No, not the Tibidabo, I think it is called the Vallvidrera-Superior station on the Peu del Funicular.

For the Montjuic cable cars, I heard they were replacing them with larger enclosed 6 person cars and more stops ??? I was wondering if more stops translated to additional sections added.

Such a pity that those two tram lines won't meet up, it just looks so natural looking at the maps as it would just have to follow the Diagonal.

[Vertigo]

1) Does the new funicular that goes up to the telecommunications/observation town go all the way?

Do you mean go up all the way to the tower? No, it goes to a residential area up in the hills. The tower is somewhere between the station and Tibidabo.

A nice round trip by public transportation in Barcelona is: FGC (L7) to Av. Tibidabo, Tram (or walk) to the funicular, funicular up to Tibidabo, bus (or walk) via the tower to Vallivridera Superior, funicular down to Peu del Funicular, FGC back into town. Interesting public transportation and some great views on the city!

[alexbn]

Now I understand. In order to visit the telecommunication tower, you must take Metro del Vallès (lines S1 or S2) to Peu del Funicular, then the Vallvidrera funicular to Vallvidrera Superior and then the bus 111, which has one stop next to the tower. All of this without having to pay three times, since all the services have integrated fares (0.60 € a trip with a T-10 card).

[zafiris]

Athens renew its metro fleet with 21 (7 DC/AC Trains and 14 DC Trains)

Air Conditioning Units in DC/AC Trains
Provision for Air Conditioning Units in DC Trains
Destination signs inside the trains with provision for alternating messages
Areas designated for the exclusive use of Persons with Special Needs
Wide gangways allowing for balanced distribution of the riders'loadwithin the vehicles
Door open pushbuttons which are operated by the passengers in off-peak hours,thus, leading to reduced wear of the door mechanism and energy saving
Strict noise limits

Maximum DC/AC TrainSpeed 120km/h
Maximum DC Speed 80km/h

Average Acceleration 1,00m/s2
Average Deceleration 1,1m/s2 (in normalconditions) 1,20m/s2 (in emergency conditions)

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/gr/metro/P8200005.jpg

Other pics
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/gr/metro/AgDimitrios.jpg

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/gr/metro/P7240001.jpg

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/gr/metro/P7250003.jpg

[m@rco]

Updates for France :


Metro networks

France
Lille (1983) 45km M
Lyon (1978) 37km M (38km in 2007, 42km in 2013)
Marseille (1977) 19km M (25km in 2006)
Paris (1900) 212km M (223km in 2007)
Toulouse (1993) 12.5km M (27.5km in 2007)
Rennes (2001) 9.4km M


Tram networks

France (FR)
Bordeaux (2002) 24.5km (43.3km in 2007)
Grenoble (1987) 21km (34.5km in 2006, 53km in 2009)
Lille (1874) 18.5km
Lyon (2001) 23.7km (25.5km in 2005, 40km in 2006)
Marseille (1876) 3km
Montpelier (2000) 15.2km (34.2km in 2006)
Nantes (1985) 39km (41.2km in 2005)
Orleans (2000) 18km
Paris (1992) 20.4km (33km in 2007, 91.6km in 2010)
Rouen (1994) 15.8km
St Etienne (1881) 9.3km
Strasbourg (1994) 24.6km (40km in 2007)
Le Mans (2007) 15km
Nice (2006) 8.7km (35.2km in 2010)
Mulhouse (2005) 12km (19.7km in 2010)
Valenciennes (2006) 9.5km
Toulon (2006) 17.7km

[Justme]

^ thanks m@rco, I have updated the list.

Interesting though, that Paris has dropped from my listed of 218km to 212km metro. Also, amazing plans of 91km tram for 2010. Do you have a map of the new lines?

It's also interesting that Marseille has no plans to extend it's trams, and only 6 more km of metro. That's pretty sad for the city which really needs it.

[m@rco]

Interesting though, that Paris has dropped from my listed of 218km to 212km metro. Also, amazing plans of 91km tram for 2010. Do you have a map of the new lines?


You will find here : http://extension-reseau.ratp.fr/extension_reseau/home.html all informations concerning metro/tram extension in Paris (it's in french).
There are 6 metro extensions planned, 5 tram extansions and 7 creations planned.

Blue lines for the metro, red lines for the tram, yellow lines for buses :
http://extension-reseau.ratp.fr/extension_reseau/tools/cadres/recherche_projet.Carte.0001.Image.gif

[Justme]

bump

[coth]

reanimation of old good thread? that's good.

don't remember did i posted map of tram network of Saint Petersburg?

[coth]

btw. just this morning thought - what's happened to this thread :)

[Justme]

year, I know they prune threads here and there is just too much good info on this thread to loose.

[Petronius]

there are two lists:

List 1) is for Light Rail and Metro

List 2) is for trams.

Milan is in both, the tram line is large, and listed in the tram section.

Of note, I didn't personally choose which were trams, and which were light rail. Sometimes, this can be too difficult to do.

:cheers:


A tiny . small correction, though , Justme, Porto's Lightrail goes underground in the city centre. So I think it'd be more accurate to consider it as (M+LR)

[IGH]

^ thanks m@rco, I have updated the list.

Interesting though, that Paris has dropped from my listed of 218km to 212km metro. Also, amazing plans of 91km tram for 2010. Do you have a map of the new lines?

It's also interesting that Marseille has no plans to extend it's trams, and only 6 more km of metro. That's pretty sad for the city which really needs it.

I think I know why we can find these 2 statistics. The 218,8 figures may include the Orlival metro (in south Ile de France, between RER B and Orly airport), which is a small metro (VAL, same as in Lille) and has a lenght of 7 km... It is operated by RATP too.

I don't know if you want to include this metro in your statistics?

[Justme]

I think I know why we can find these 2 statistics. The 218,8 figures may include the Orlival metro (in south Ile de France, between RER B and Orly airport), which is a small metro (VAL, same as in Lille) and has a lenght of 7 km... It is operated by RATP too.

I don't know if you want to include this metro in your statistics?

I'll leave it up to the Paris locals to decide if it's part of the metro. I havn't been making any judgements on this thread, but leaving it up to the locals who know their systems.

If you guys believe it's part of the metro, I'd add it.

:cheers:

[IGH]

Well, technically it is a metro, but it is not really used by parisians. It even has a specific fare (not included in the "carte orange" zones) and is not linked with any other metro line (except RER B)

So I don't think it is necessary to add it. I think parts of RER A and B operated by RATP are much more considered as metros by parisians (but it is quite different too, not to be included)

Btw interesting statistics to compare european cities' network!! nice job!

[Metropolitan]

I'll leave it up to the Paris locals to decide if it's part of the metro. I havn't been making any judgements on this thread, but leaving it up to the locals who know their systems.

If you guys believe it's part of the metro, I'd add it.

:cheers:The Orlyval isn't part of Paris' subway system. It's simply an airport connection from the station Antony on the RER B to the Orly airport. I don't see any decent reason to count it as a subway.

Moreover, it's ridiculously tiny, slow and trains leave every 15 minutes. However, you could ignore this since it's only my judgement. ;)

[Metropolitan]

Justme, well, I don't want to re-start an old discussion but I find it really weird that you don't want to hear about the RER as being a metro when you're ready to accept that Orlyval crap which is in the middle of nowhere, and fully aerial, as a subway. http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/crazyeyes.gif

[IGH]

the problem is that RER is an hybrid system between metro and train.
First projects (in the 60's) for the RER were indeed to create an express regional metro, with specific lines, at least inside Paris. But then, in order to save money, we decided to link rer with some surburb train lines. That is how RER C was born for example.

Maybe we could separate these lines. RER A has all the criteria to be a metro, as RER B for the southern part (up to "Gare du Nord").

But RER C and D are just suburb trains. RER E could be a metro, but only between the 2 stations inside Paris...

In fact, we could consider that RATP's network is metro (RER A and the south part of RER B), whereas SNCF's one is suburb train.

[Fern]

Lisbon's existing, u/c and planned (black line to be built till 2010) underground:

http://img95.exs.cx/img95/1705/lisboa-map.gif

[Metropolitan]

the problem is that RER is an hybrid system between metro and train.Well, I agree with you but the thing I tried to say is that Orlyval is even less a subway than is the RER to me. ;)

It's also true that Paris has a network like no other city in the world. Creating a "metro" line which would reach Orly or even Charles-de-Gaulle airport would be madness since that would be way to slow to be efficient. On the other side, it's perfectly natural to take the subway to go to the airports in Madrid, Berlin, London or New York.

Is it because the airports are further away in Paris ? No. The difference is that what is considered as suburbs in Paris would be considered as the city everywhere else in the world.

Ok, I stop here.

[Justme]

Justme, well, I don't want to re-start an old discussion but I find it really weird that you don't want to hear about the RER as being a metro when you're ready to accept that Orlyval crap which is in the middle of nowhere, and fully aerial, as a subway. http://forums.civfanatics.com/images/smilies/crazyeyes.gif

??? where the fück did this come from ??

My standing is quite clear. I know about the RER. I have travelled on the RER.

But I know nothing of this other Orlyval line and so was asking about it.

Why is that so hard to comprehend?

[Metropolitan]

Ok my mistake Justme. :)
Well count the Orlyval out then.

[Justme]

Ok my mistake Justme. :)
Well count the Orlyval out then.

no worries then. By the way, do you have any statistics on the RER, such as total "route" length, number of stations etc? I have always been keen to find these and would like to add the details to this thread, but havn't been able to find any.

Likewise, I would also like to find the full commuter/suburban length (route km) for the Paris metro area.

[coth]

Hey Justme, i don't see Japan in Commuter & Suburban Rail Networks, but I remember there was discussion about that?

[Justme]

^ This thread was dedicated to European networks, at least at this stage...

[coth]

oh.. i see now...

anyway, what is length of commuter network+metro+tramw in tokyo and osaka?

[Galandar]

You have forgotten to add country: AZERBAIJAN city: Baku to the list of european countries with metro.
Baku has 2 lines of heavy metro 30,5 km. Please add it

[m@rco]

no worries then. By the way, do you have any statistics on the RER, such as total "route" length, number of stations etc? I have always been keen to find these and would like to add the details to this thread, but havn't been able to find any.

Likewise, I would also like to find the full commuter/suburban length (route km) for the Paris metro area.

Yes I have...

- For the RER (RATP + SNCF) :
Number of lines : 5 (A, B, C, D and E)
Length in km : 564,7 km (RER A : 112,6 km ; RER B : 79,7 km ; RER C : 185,6 km ; RER D : 145,1 km ; RER E : 31,7 km)

Number of stations : 240 (RER A : 47 ; RER B : 48 ; RER C : 86 ; RER D : 46 ; RER E : 15)

- For the RATP section :
Number of lines : 2 (A and B)

Length : 115,1 km (RER A : 75,4 km ; RER B : 39,7 km)
- Paris : 19,7 km
- Suburbs : 95,4 km

Number of stations : 67 (RER A : 35 ; RER B : 32)
- Paris : 12
- Suburbs : 55

- For the SNCF section :
Number of lines : 5 (A, B, C, D and E)

Length : 449,6 km (RER A : 47,2 km ; RER B : 40 km ; RER C : 185,6 km ; RER D : 145,1 km ; RER E : 31,7 km)

Number of stations : 175 (RER A : 12 ; RER B : 16 ; RER C : 86 ; RER D : 46 ; RER E : 15)


- Commuter lines : 833,4 km, 226 stops
Paris Est (Gare de l'Est) : 247,7 km, 46 stops
Paris Sud Est (Gare de Lyon) : 126 km, 27 stops
Paris Nord (Gare du Nord) : 114,7 km, 39 stops
Paris Rive Gauche (Gare Montparnasse) : 120,1 km, 28 stops
Paris Saint Lazare (Gare St Lazare) : 224,9 km, 86 stops

http://www.stif-idf.fr/chiffres/memento/memento_2001.pdf

[Justme]

Yes I have...

- For the RER (RATP + SNCF) :
Number of lines : 5 (A, B, C, D and E)
Length in km : 564,7 km (RER A : 112,6 km ; RER B : 79,7 km ; RER C : 185,6 km ; RER D : 145,1 km ; RER E : 31,7 km)

Number of stations : 240 (RER A : 47 ; RER B : 48 ; RER C : 86 ; RER D : 46 ; RER E : 15)

- For the RATP section :
Number of lines : 2 (A and B)

Length : 115,1 km (RER A : 75,4 km ; RER B : 39,7 km)
- Paris : 19,7 km
- Suburbs : 95,4 km

Number of stations : 67 (RER A : 35 ; RER B : 32)
- Paris : 12
- Suburbs : 55

- For the SNCF section :
Number of lines : 5 (A, B, C, D and E)

Length : 449,6 km (RER A : 47,2 km ; RER B : 40 km ; RER C : 185,6 km ; RER D : 145,1 km ; RER E : 31,7 km)

Number of stations : 175 (RER A : 12 ; RER B : 16 ; RER C : 86 ; RER D : 46 ; RER E : 15)


- Commuter lines : 833,4 km, 226 stops
Paris Est (Gare de l'Est) : 247,7 km, 46 stops
Paris Sud Est (Gare de Lyon) : 126 km, 27 stops
Paris Nord (Gare du Nord) : 114,7 km, 39 stops
Paris Rive Gauche (Gare Montparnasse) : 120,1 km, 28 stops
Paris Saint Lazare (Gare St Lazare) : 224,9 km, 86 stops

http://www.stif-idf.fr/chiffres/memento/memento_2001.pdf

Amazing find, thanks for the details!

@coth, sorry, I have no details for Japanese cities. I too would be interested in such info.

@Galandar, sorry, I wasn't aware that Azerbaijan was considered Europe. There seems to be some differing opinions whether it is in Asia or Europe. However, since it has recently become a member of the Council of Europe, and is registered in wikipedia and BBC as Europe I have added Baku to the list! Thanks for the information.

[Yappofloyd]

Fern,

You appear to have posted (#218 on 20/01/05) a map made by Robert Schwandal from <http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/lis/lisboa.htm>.

I think it is better to attribute source material especially when it has copyright.

Also, your posted map does not distinguish between operating, uc and proposed extensions. There is a big difference between the map you posted and the reality which gives viewers an impression that the Lisbon network is more expansive than it really is.

Perhaps be clearer next time.

[brugghen]

Houten (south of Utrecht) has a temporary streetcar line between two railways stations on a railway track. As soon as the four railwaytracks between Houten an Utrecht are available this service will be replaced by regular trains. On streetcar is needed for this service. This streetcar is a former Hannover car, owned by the HTM (Hague). The service is run under responsibility of the Dutch Railways.

http://images4.fotopic.net/?iid=y3fuk0&outx=600&noresize=1&original=1&nostamp=1

http://images1.fotopic.net/?iid=y3fula&outx=600&noresize=1&original=1&nostamp=1

http://images5.fotopic.net/?iid=y3fulc&outx=600&noresize=1&original=1&nostamp=1

[Vertigo]

@brugghen: your pics ain't working.

[I'mBack]

Justme, some more updated information on some italian cities:

Urban Railways (metro + UrbanRailways+LightMetro)

[Italy
Rome 36.6 + 178 km= 214.6 Km M+LR
Napoli (1993) 40km M


Tram Network
Italy (IT)

Milano (1876) 287km

Commuter & Suburban Rail Networks:

Italy
Rome - 470 Km (Commuting lines to hinterland area)


http://tinypic.com/1jozz9

http://tinypic.com/1jp00g

[Justme]

Thanks I'mback,

I have updated the list, but I must ask, did Italy recently increase the metro's in Rome and Naples, and the tram in Milan? As these figures are much larger than what I previously understood?

[I'mBack]

Thanks I'mback,

I have updated the list, but I must ask, did Italy recently increase the metro's in Rome and Naples, and the tram in Milan? As these figures are much larger than what I previously understood?

Regarding Naples Metro extension I got the data from http://www.urbanrail.net/index.htm (even thought it doesn't take in consideration of a recently opened metro extension);

Rome metro is 36.6 Km + 178 km of UrbanRailways&LightMetro within the City of Rome (www.comune.roma.it/mobilita and http://www.metroroma.it/MetroRoma

The figure for Milan's tram network I got it from the ATM website (public transport company operating in Milan): http://www.atm-mi.it/ita/azienda/fcifre.htm
But you are right, I have just checked the English version and the figures are slightly different as dated of 2002, while on the Italian version the figures are dated 31/12/2003.

[Justme]

Thanks for the data I'mBack. I wasn't doubting you, just interested in why the difference.

:cheers: cheers

[coth]

bump :)

[Bitxofo]

A new commuter train line is going to open this month of April in Barcelona.
I think it is 30km long.
Update, please!
;)
Thanks!
:)

[Justme]

A new commuter train line is going to open this month of April in Barcelona.
I think it is 30km long.
Update, please!
;)
Thanks!
:)


Not a problem, can you give some details? Barcelona really is pushing ahead with it's public transport - as are other Spanish cities. Absolutely fantastic!

[gruber]

Milano.
Updates, April 2005

SUBWAY

3 lines (2 with branches)
75 km with 87 stations

Under construction:

-A new line will be under construction from late 2005. called MM5, will run from Garibladi station to north.
-A new branch of MM2 under construction in the Southern part of the city, from Famagosta to Assago Forum: 4.8 km
-A new station will be opened in December 2005 between Rho Fiera and Molino Dorino on the western branch of the MM1
-On the MM3 will be opened in the 2007 the new 4 stations on the northern part of the line from Maciacchini to Comasina.
-On the northern part of the MM1 will be under construction from the late 2005 the exstension from Sesto 1° Maggio to Monza Bettola, with one intermediate station

Approved Project:

-Exstension line MM2 on the northern branch from Cologno Nord to Vimercate: 14 km with 7 or 8 new stations.
-Exstension line MM3 on the south-eastern part, from San Donato to Paullo. 15 km with 6 or 7 new stations.
-Approved project of the first part of new line MM4, from Corsico/Lorenteggio to the city centre. the second part will runs from city centre to Linate Airport.

Proposed:

division of the MM1 branches in a new line called MM6 from Rho Fiera to Pagano (change with MM1) and probably exstension to south in the Naviglia area.

LINEE "S"

8 Lines with more than 70 stations, dozens are shared.
2 new Lines are under construction, and many exsistent lines will be exstended.
2 new stations under construction on the line 9 in Milano city.
end of the work 2008.

Ferrovie Nord Milano

2° biggest Italian Railway company after National Railways.
6 lines with more than 450 km and 130 stations.

totally the Subway + S lines + Commuter rails FNM have more than 600 km.



http://www.msrmilano.com/images/schema75.gif

[Bitxofo]

Not a problem, can you give some details? Barcelona really is pushing ahead with it's public transport - as are other Spanish cities. Absolutely fantastic!

I will give you full details when it will be opened, by April 30th!
OK?
:wink2:

[Bitxofo]

Not a problem, can you give some details? Barcelona really is pushing ahead with it's public transport - as are other Spanish cities. Absolutely fantastic!

:hi:
Hello!
:)
Since May 16th 2005 Barcelona network is 702 km. long.
A new RENFE commuter trains line opened, line 7:

Martorell-Castellbisbal-Rubí-Sant Cugat-Cerdanyola Universitat-Cerdanyola-Montcada i Reixac Santa Maria-Montcada i Reixac Manresa- Montcada bifurcació-Torre del Baró-Sant Andreu Arenal-Arc de Triomf-Plaça Catalunya-SANTS-L'Hospitalet

Only the part in red is new!!
:wink2:

@Justme:
When R U arriving 2 BCN?
;)
Bis bald!
:)

[sturman]

Yekaterinburg operates a valuable heavy-rail metro line, not LR.

[Chavito]

Cercedilla - Los Cotos is not a true Light Rail. It is a mountain railway but without rack system...

The service is limited to one train every two hours in working days and hourly on weekends. Except the first part of the line in the streets of Cercedilla a little town in the mountains, this train crosses forests and mountains in this area close to Madrid.

[Bitxofo]

UP!!

[Justme]

:hi:
Hello!
:)
Since May 16th 2005 Barcelona network is 702 km. long.
A new RENFE commuter trains line opened, line 7:

Martorell-Castellbisbal-Rubí-Sant Cugat-Cerdanyola Universitat-Cerdanyola-Montcada i Reixac Santa Maria-Montcada i Reixac Manresa- Montcada bifurcació-Torre del Baró-Sant Andreu Arenal-Arc de Triomf-Plaça Catalunya-SANTS-L'Hospitalet

Only the part in red is new!!
:wink2:

@Justme:
When R U arriving 2 BCN?
;)
Bis bald!
:)

Thanks bitxofo. I was just about to add this information to the main post at the front, but I realised I wasn't sure about the total length. Is this just commuter rail, or all the rail?

What would be the total commuter rail for Barcelona now?

[Bitxofo]

Thanks bitxofo. I was just about to add this information to the main post at the front, but I realised I wasn't sure about the total length. Is this just commuter rail, or all the rail?

What would be the total commuter rail for Barcelona now?

702 km. is all kind of rail.
107 km. are metro.
:wink2:

When R U arriving to BCN?
;)

[Aquarius]

The new line 7

http://img144.echo.cx/img144/4300/c7km9bm.jpg

http://img144.echo.cx/img144/3815/c76hy.jpg

[Justme]

702 km. is all kind of rail.
107 km. are metro.
:wink2:

When R U arriving to BCN?
;)

Thanks mate, I've updated the main list

I'll be in Barcelona mid July.

[Bitxofo]

To be more exact:

Barcelona metro: 106.40 km.
Madrid metro: 226.78 km.

:wink2:

[Arpels]

:hi:
Hello!
:)
Since May 16th 2005 Barcelona network is 702 km. long.
A new RENFE commuter trains line opened, line 7:

Martorell-Castellbisbal-Rubí-Sant Cugat-Cerdanyola Universitat-Cerdanyola-Montcada i Reixac Santa Maria-Montcada i Reixac Manresa- Montcada bifurcació-Torre del Baró-Sant Andreu Arenal-Arc de Triomf-Plaça Catalunya-SANTS-L'Hospitalet

Only the part in red is new!!
:wink2:

@Justme:
When R U arriving 2 BCN?
;)
Bis bald!
:)
wen it was made de red part Bitxofo?