Spadina Subway Line Extension

Alternates Considered

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/Spadina/YSSEAltNorth.jpg
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/Spadina/YSSEAltSouth.jpg

Preferred Alignment Overview

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/Spadina/YSSEAlignSum.jpg

Curves
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/Spadina/YSSECurveSum.jpg

Expenses (416 only)

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/Spadina/YSSECost.jpg

Scheduling
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/Spadina/YSSESched.jpg

Infrastructure Overview
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/Spadina/YSSETrackSum.jpg

Construction Methods Overview
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/Spadina/YSSEConstruct.jpg

Detailed Alignment
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/Spadina/AllenAlign.jpg
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/Spadina/SheppWAlign.jpg
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/Spadina/KeeleAlign.jpg
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/Spadina/YorkUAlign.jpg

Detailed Alignment Cross-Section
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w203/TrainX/Spadina/AlingXSection.jpg

Source: TTC EA

Thanks for the update :) Hope it goes thru still.. I think once this is done, they should have a overground subway connection at Steeles West going thru the hydro corridor west into Brampton <-> Finch subway <-> To Eastward Markham etc

I predict this won't be a very pleasant ride. All these sharp turns will produce the headache inducing screeching like before & after Union Station.

I think those curves are far wider (larger radius?) than anything around Union. It was one of the requirements during the planning phases.

I predict this won't be a very pleasant ride. All these sharp turns will produce the headache inducing screeching like before & after Union Station.

I've tried to measure the curve by scaling maps and actually drafting the alignment in; it is around a 120 metre radius on the inside track; the minimum radius the trains can handle is 116 metres. The York St/Uni Ave. curve is around 130 metres.

As you can see in the curve chart, the sharpest turn is 310m, and the other turns are quite gentle: only 4 curves altogether, 2 of which are so gentle (over 750m radius) they can be taken at full speed, and the third curve can still be taken at 64km/h :). Only the curve immediately north of Downsview is sharp (likely because the alignment of Downsview Station itself was built assuming a more northerly extension to close the loop via the Hydro corridor or Steeles, I suspect... I beleive I have those studies lying around, I'll post them later)

On behalf of both expected riders, I hope you're right.

I certainly hope that this project gets put on the back burner.

The DRL and Yonge extentions are much more important. Even TC is more important than the Sorbara subway.

Where's the section to VCC?

^Hopefully DOA.


Down with Spadina extension.

Seriously, why isn't it shown?

so they've started construction on this extension already?
yes or no?
like the thread says u/c but ppl r still saying they hope it happens

Seriously, why isn't it shown?

The north section is not being constructed by TTC or Toronto, it is a separate study being conducted by York Region. I don't know where you might find the equivalent information.

so they've started construction on this extension already?
yes or no?
like the thread says u/c but ppl r still saying they hope it happens

Depends if you count relocation of underground services that are in the way of the subway alignment. That relocation of existing underground services is currently taking place at the site of the York U Station and previously a mainline sewer was relocated at the site of the Steeles West station.

so they've started construction on this extension already?
yes or no?
like the thread says u/c but ppl r still saying they hope it happens

Legally, to get their funding, construction must start within 1 year of the funding announcement.

For the purposes of this requirement, construction has started. For the purposes of finishing the project, construction has not started. They have not tendered any components aside from the sewer relocation at one point on the map to fulfil the legal obligations.

That said, there is a very very high probability that it will be completed on time and within budget. The big holdup is federal money which is coming in a lump with money for thousands of other projects. Negotiations on those other projects is causing slowdowns.

Is the majority of this extension tunnelled?

Is the majority of this extension tunnelled?

South of Steeles it is ALL tunneled, no surface at all between Downsview and Steeles West.

"That said, there is a very very high probability that it will be completed on time and within budget"

-tell me what the within time and budget is. .... if the time is 10 years, then okay, but i doubt thats what they said at the begining. and i know its gonna cost more than what they said it was gonna cost at first. ... in this society, they HAVE to lie about the expected costs and/or timetable

Is the sheppard west station necessary?

Is the sheppard west station necessary?

Yes and no. For a GO connection at the Barrie South Line, planned redevelopments inside Downsview Park (townhouses, possibly more stuff) and the Chesswood Industrial Park on the north side which employs a decent number of workers.

It won't be high in demand but not a total dud. Riders of the 84, 106, 107 and 108 will now an earlier oppurtunity to access the subway. I also like the trend of phasing back to reasonable spacing gaps between stops. If we went non-stop to Finch West the local communities adjacent suffer. :)

subways shouldn't be treated like a bus service a stop every block

Is the sheppard west station necessary?

From opening day? No. I think it should be treated like NYCC Station (and Willowdale Station). I mean, Willowdale/Sheppard is clearly more developed than Sheppard West at the Barrie GO Corridor crossing, yet it isn't being given the same treatment as Willowdale? Willowdale was not included in the Sheppard subway for two reasons; community opposition, and low ridership projection. So they left a provision to add it later, just like NYCC was originally (it used to run non-stop between Finch and Sheppard on Yonge). How Sheppard West is expected to see higher ridership than Willowdale makes no sense to me; not until after redevelopment of Downsivew lands takes place, all-day GO Train service between Union and Newmarket is running, and the GO Sheppard West Station is built and operating.

For those who think the Spadina extension won't have enough ridership, read this:

Was it really worth it?
On the one-year anniversary of the inauguration of Laval's three new stations, questions remain about whether the $745-million investment is paying off
26 April 2008
Montreal Gazette

Riding the métro from Laval into Montreal during the morning rush hour, Louise Privée is pleased, even if having a seat is too much to hope for.

"I like it a lot," she said of the new Laval line. "There's never enough places to sit, but it's still more comfortable than the bus." One year after the three- station, 5.2-kilometre métro extension into Laval was officially inaugurated on April 26, Laval commuters and Montreal's métro authorities are understandably pleased, although legions of seatless riders and overflowing métro parking lots indicate the new line has quickly become a victim of its own success and questionable planning.

Daily ridership emanating from the three Laval stations has risen to 60,000 passengers per weekday (approximately 30,000 leaving in the morning and returning in the evening), 20 per cent higher than the 50,000 that were projected to be using it after one year.

But riders like Privée also resurrect the question of whether the $745-million investment was worth it in the first place.

Privée used to ride the bus from her home in the Vimont sector to the Henri Bourassa métro station in Ahuntsic, just across the water from Laval, then take the métro to her Old Montreal workplace, a commute of about an hour and five minutes.

Now she takes a half-hour bus ride to get to the Cartier station in Laval and rides for another half-hour to work - a savings of five minutes.

The MTC estimates that as few as 2,000 users of the Laval line might be new users. This means the vast majority were already using public transit, so only a relatively small number of cars have been taken off the roads thanks to the métro. (One wag wrote The Gazette to say that even if there were 3,000 new users, it still works out to $248,000 per person, so why not just buy them all condominiums in Montreal instead?) "If it's just bus rides that are being replaced, then it's a very expensive solution to a basic problem," said Murtaza Haider, a professor at McGill University and Ryerson University in Toronto specializing in public transportation and urban planning. A better and much less costly idea would have been to improve the bus system, he said.

Laval Mayor Gilles Vaillancourt begs to differ.

"Buses," he said, in the same tone one would use for the word cockroaches. "It's been 30 years that I've been hearing that and it doesn't impress me at all. You cannot convert new users to a bus system. You have to give them a real alternative, and that alternative we now know is the métro." Buses get stuck in traffic jams and snow storms, and are more costly to operate per user than subway trains, he said. Buses cost $4.75 per user per trip, as compared to under $3 for the métro system, he said.

Montrealers forced to wait as métro cars packed with Laval residents sailed by them inundated the MTC with complaints in the months following the line's opening. There were more than 400 complaints in nine months, compared with the 122 complaints registered the year before in the same period, Radio-Canada reported, citing documents obtained through the Access to Information Act.

"Of course, it is a success; we are very happy with the high numbers, but there are complaints and we're trying to reduce those to a minimum," said MTC spokesperson Marianne Rouette, adding that the number of complaints dropped 60 per cent in January and February from the initial levels.

To cope with demand, the MTC has increased frequency by 17 per cent since January, is modifying train cars to hold more passengers, and has upped the number of trains on the Orange Line from 29 to 33, running every 31/2 minutes at rush hour, Rouette said.

One out of every two southbound trains leaves directly from Henri Bourassa, ensuring Montrealers will have room, Rouette said.

"We can't get the complaints to zero; that would take a miracle," she said. "And the miracle is when the new trains come." New trains are expected by 2012 or 2013, she said.

The growing pains are a good thing, said Normand Parisien, executive director of the Quebec branch of advocacy group Transport 2000, because they will spur improvements to Montreal's aging fleet, much of it nearing 45 years old.

Fighting against métro systems is difficult because they're popular with the public, he said. It didn't help that the Parti Québécois government of Lucien Bouchard severely lowballed the construction estimate at $179 million when it promised the venture during pre-election season in 1998.

"We wish the best for the new system," Parisien said, even though the group has protested against it for 15 years as a costly investment for such a short distance.

"People are happy with the métro, but they have to realize it reduces the margin to manoeuvre for other projects." The métro construction soaked up $745 million in tax dollars that won't go to health care, pothole repairs or upgrades to Montreal's existing transit system, Haider said.

Both the MTC and the Metropolitan Transit Agency, the provincial body that oversees transit planning in the Montreal region, are quick to note the Laval line was a political decision.

"The government decided the métro should be extended to Laval, and we'll live with the decision," said Marvin Rotrand, vice-chairman of the MTC board and a Montreal city councillor, noting that the line appears to be a success.

"Clearly the city would have preferred an extension of the Blue Line east toward St. Léonard, Montreal North and Rivière des Prairies, where there is a very large population." The MTA is working on a study for an extension of the Blue Line to the east, as well as an extension of the Orange Line north for two stops beyond Côte Vertu into St. Laurent, the scene of heavy housing development in the last decade. Vaillancourt is pushing for a further 10-kilometre extension of the Laval line that would hook up with the other end of the Orange Line, completing the loop.

"The Laval line is proof that if you build it, they will come," said Joël Gauthier, president and CEO of the Metropolitan Transit Agency, adding that the ease of métro travel makes it a greater draw than the bus.

But the Blue Line running from Snowdon to St. Michel puts the lie to that theory, Haider said. Built 22 years ago, it is still underused, showing that only population density guarantees a proper return on métro investment. (An extension eastward would solve that problem, Gauthier said.) Similar complaints have been made about the line that extends to Longueuil.

To Haider, the Laval extension is a waste no matter how many riders use it.

"If I had $800 million, I would have invested in transit efficiency by reducing wait times for buses and replacing the aging fleet of métros," Haider said, noting that it's unfair that service for Montrealers has worsened as a result of the Laval métro line, considering they pay the bulk of the operating costs.

"Montreal is such a cold city. When you see people waiting outside in minus 30C, and they don't know if the bus will come in five minutes or 25 minutes, that rider will be lost as soon as they can afford a vehicle." A Léger Marketing survey conducted for Le Journal de Montréal and TVA and made public this week found that 60 per cent of all Quebecers use cars to get to work; but half said they might switch to public transit if service improved. Many respondents complained that public transit now takes too long, is too crowded or just doesn't exist in their neighbourhood.

Vaillancourt brushes off the anti-métro sentiment, saying it only exists in Montreal, which would rather take the view "that nobody exists except them." The fact the métro is overcrowded and métro station parking lots holding 2,000 cars are full is proof the system is a success, he said. He estimates the number of new users at 4,000 to 5,000. Transport Quebec does not have statistics yet on what effects, if any, the métro has had on traffic patterns.

"Who else has been able to divert 5,000 cars?" he asked. "Nobody but Laval." For passengers like Laval resident Marco Nocella, the line is the fulfillment of a 30-year-old political promise long overdue.

"Sooner or later it would have to be built," he said. "Might as well do it now. It was necessary."

The north section is not being constructed by TTC or Toronto, it is a separate study being conducted by York Region. I don't know where you might find the equivalent information.


http://www.york.ca/Services/Transit/Highway+7+Vaughan+North-South+Link+EA.htm

The portion above Steeles is called the Vaughn N+S link.

It is extremely detailed, but I am not going to post the graphics.

As it stands, the entire 8.3 km/h looks like it will be underground.

I won't debate how successful the Laval extension is for the simple reason that I really am not familiar with the STM and Montreal's traffic patterns the way a Montrealer would be.

I will say though that building this subway extension makes almost no sense.

There are far more areas of this city that need an upgrade to transit than this.

I'm glad this is on hold.

I'm glad this is on hold.

Groundbreaking is this fall.

And the Feds have commited to full funding. The project is going ahead. What a waste.

Why is the title of the thread say "on hold"?

It got my hopes up.

Why is the title of the thread say "on hold"?

It got my hopes up.

Well, next month, it will officially no longer be "on hold," but the Feds haven't delivered yet, so it isn't funded, even though it should have been already.

Damn-it.

Of all the projects that are on the table, this one make the least sense.

Are you guys retarded ? How is this a mistake and how does it not make sense ? Do you people not see the traffic on the 400 during rush hour and in the morning ? Its gridlock and not to mention the 401. A LOT of people live north of downsview and A LOT of those people work in Toronto. This is a great extension and will benefit many people and it will reduce congestion.

Yea what a terrible idea ^^ wow..

Are you guys retarded ? How is this a mistake and how does it not make sense ? Do you people not see the traffic on the 400 during rush hour and in the morning ? Its gridlock and not to mention the 401. A LOT of people live north of downsview and A LOT of those people work in Toronto. This is a great extension and will benefit many people and it will reduce congestion.

Yea what a terrible idea ^^ wow..
These people should be taking GO Trains into Toronto then; especially with the new Sheppard West connection.

If they're not busing it to GO Stations today, how are they going to get to the subway? There isn't enough parking for everybody, not by a long shot, and it wouldn't free up the 400 if they still drive to the station anyway. The idea that this is going to relieve congestion is a joke.

The real solution is better local service in the suburbs with stronger integration into GO Stations with all-day GO Train service on all lines. Every GO Station, except maybe those poorly located right at highway junctions, should become transit hubs.

Are you guys retarded ? How is this a mistake and how does it not make sense ? Do you people not see the traffic on the 400 during rush hour and in the morning ? Its gridlock and not to mention the 401. A LOT of people live north of downsview and A LOT of those people work in Toronto. This is a great extension and will benefit many people and it will reduce congestion.

Yea what a terrible idea ^^ wow..

If you wish to see a reduction in congestion, the only way you are going to see large results would be to have a new subway line or extension to serve a destination rich environment. This subway line extension is not destination rich.... actually most of the Spadina line is NOT destination rich to begin with (with the exception of downtowntravelers)!

The DRL on the other hand is in an extremely destination rich area as well as having a catchment area that is already largely transit bound. The Yonge extension also has the benefit of already having huge volume to it's current terminus. Moving that point closer to the source and making the design of that station to optimize movement of passengers and feeder routes makes sense.

Subways to suburbs do not work well because in general they are usually neither destination rich or have a dense user filled catchment area. Proof of this exists on Sheppard.

Are you guys retarded ? How is this a mistake and how does it not make sense ? Do you people not see the traffic on the 400 during rush hour and in the morning ? Its gridlock and not to mention the 401. A LOT of people live north of downsview and A LOT of those people work in Toronto. This is a great extension and will benefit many people and it will reduce congestion.

Yea what a terrible idea ^^ wow..

People will still be driving on the 400 to the subway. Only instead of going down to Yorkdale/Downsview, they will now be getting off at 7/407. Congestion will still exist north of 7.

Are you guys retarded ? How is this a mistake and how does it not make sense ? Do you people not see the traffic on the 400 during rush hour and in the morning ? Its gridlock and not to mention the 401. A LOT of people live north of downsview and A LOT of those people work in Toronto. This is a great extension and will benefit many people and it will reduce congestion.

Yea what a terrible idea ^^ wow..

You honestly think people are going to endure congestion, only to get off at Hwy 7, and endure more congestion, just so they can use the subway? It's not going to happen. If they wanted to use Transit, they would be using GO.

You are really simplifying things. Just because a subway is built, doesn't mean people will automatically use it. It remains to be seen, how York Region is going to handle connection to the subway. But as it stands, Vaughn seems to be more concern about making a new center, rather than relieving traffic.

Are you guys retarded ? How is this a mistake and how does it not make sense ? Do you people not see the traffic on the 400 during rush hour and in the morning ? Its gridlock and not to mention the 401. A LOT of people live north of downsview and A LOT of those people work in Toronto. This is a great extension and will benefit many people and it will reduce congestion.

Yea what a terrible idea ^^ wow..

There's already a GO station right there, why aren't they using that? The GO line will soon have much higher service frequency, and that is a lot better for these kind of commuter than a subway.

One of the things that I believe would be a huge boon for transit here would be for GO to begin to operate a network similar to Paris's RER. Now that would give us a truly regional express.

The real issue is the appalling urban design in Vaughn .. you can build all the subways you want the real issue it the corrupt planning and development in the region.

This subway will do NOTHING for the area. Were better spending money on a Eglinton subway... but that would that would mean favourtism... and this country is all about doing things that aren't the best ... but makes everyone happy.

For those who think the Spadina extension won't have enough ridership, read this:

Was it really worth it?
On the one-year anniversary of the inauguration of Laval's three new stations, questions remain about whether the $745-million investment is paying off
26 April 2008
Montreal Gazette

Riding the métro from Laval into Montreal during the morning rush hour, Louise Privée is pleased, even if having a seat is too much to hope for.

"I like it a lot," she said of the new Laval line. "There's never enough places to sit, but it's still more comfortable than the bus." One year after the three- station, 5.2-kilometre métro extension into Laval was officially inaugurated on April 26, Laval commuters and Montreal's métro authorities are understandably pleased, although legions of seatless riders and overflowing métro parking lots indicate the new line has quickly become a victim of its own success and questionable planning.

Daily ridership emanating from the three Laval stations has risen to 60,000 passengers per weekday (approximately 30,000 leaving in the morning and returning in the evening), 20 per cent higher than the 50,000 that were projected to be using it after one year.

But riders like Privée also resurrect the question of whether the $745-million investment was worth it in the first place.

Privée used to ride the bus from her home in the Vimont sector to the Henri Bourassa métro station in Ahuntsic, just across the water from Laval, then take the métro to her Old Montreal workplace, a commute of about an hour and five minutes.

Now she takes a half-hour bus ride to get to the Cartier station in Laval and rides for another half-hour to work - a savings of five minutes.

The MTC estimates that as few as 2,000 users of the Laval line might be new users. This means the vast majority were already using public transit, so only a relatively small number of cars have been taken off the roads thanks to the métro. (One wag wrote The Gazette to say that even if there were 3,000 new users, it still works out to $248,000 per person, so why not just buy them all condominiums in Montreal instead?) "If it's just bus rides that are being replaced, then it's a very expensive solution to a basic problem," said Murtaza Haider, a professor at McGill University and Ryerson University in Toronto specializing in public transportation and urban planning. A better and much less costly idea would have been to improve the bus system, he said.

Laval Mayor Gilles Vaillancourt begs to differ.

"Buses," he said, in the same tone one would use for the word cockroaches. "It's been 30 years that I've been hearing that and it doesn't impress me at all. You cannot convert new users to a bus system. You have to give them a real alternative, and that alternative we now know is the métro." Buses get stuck in traffic jams and snow storms, and are more costly to operate per user than subway trains, he said. Buses cost $4.75 per user per trip, as compared to under $3 for the métro system, he said.

Montrealers forced to wait as métro cars packed with Laval residents sailed by them inundated the MTC with complaints in the months following the line's opening. There were more than 400 complaints in nine months, compared with the 122 complaints registered the year before in the same period, Radio-Canada reported, citing documents obtained through the Access to Information Act.

"Of course, it is a success; we are very happy with the high numbers, but there are complaints and we're trying to reduce those to a minimum," said MTC spokesperson Marianne Rouette, adding that the number of complaints dropped 60 per cent in January and February from the initial levels.

To cope with demand, the MTC has increased frequency by 17 per cent since January, is modifying train cars to hold more passengers, and has upped the number of trains on the Orange Line from 29 to 33, running every 31/2 minutes at rush hour, Rouette said.

One out of every two southbound trains leaves directly from Henri Bourassa, ensuring Montrealers will have room, Rouette said.

"We can't get the complaints to zero; that would take a miracle," she said. "And the miracle is when the new trains come." New trains are expected by 2012 or 2013, she said.

The growing pains are a good thing, said Normand Parisien, executive director of the Quebec branch of advocacy group Transport 2000, because they will spur improvements to Montreal's aging fleet, much of it nearing 45 years old.

Fighting against métro systems is difficult because they're popular with the public, he said. It didn't help that the Parti Québécois government of Lucien Bouchard severely lowballed the construction estimate at $179 million when it promised the venture during pre-election season in 1998.

"We wish the best for the new system," Parisien said, even though the group has protested against it for 15 years as a costly investment for such a short distance.

"People are happy with the métro, but they have to realize it reduces the margin to manoeuvre for other projects." The métro construction soaked up $745 million in tax dollars that won't go to health care, pothole repairs or upgrades to Montreal's existing transit system, Haider said.

Both the MTC and the Metropolitan Transit Agency, the provincial body that oversees transit planning in the Montreal region, are quick to note the Laval line was a political decision.

"The government decided the métro should be extended to Laval, and we'll live with the decision," said Marvin Rotrand, vice-chairman of the MTC board and a Montreal city councillor, noting that the line appears to be a success.

"Clearly the city would have preferred an extension of the Blue Line east toward St. Léonard, Montreal North and Rivière des Prairies, where there is a very large population." The MTA is working on a study for an extension of the Blue Line to the east, as well as an extension of the Orange Line north for two stops beyond Côte Vertu into St. Laurent, the scene of heavy housing development in the last decade. Vaillancourt is pushing for a further 10-kilometre extension of the Laval line that would hook up with the other end of the Orange Line, completing the loop.

"The Laval line is proof that if you build it, they will come," said Joël Gauthier, president and CEO of the Metropolitan Transit Agency, adding that the ease of métro travel makes it a greater draw than the bus.

But the Blue Line running from Snowdon to St. Michel puts the lie to that theory, Haider said. Built 22 years ago, it is still underused, showing that only population density guarantees a proper return on métro investment. (An extension eastward would solve that problem, Gauthier said.) Similar complaints have been made about the line that extends to Longueuil.

To Haider, the Laval extension is a waste no matter how many riders use it.

"If I had $800 million, I would have invested in transit efficiency by reducing wait times for buses and replacing the aging fleet of métros," Haider said, noting that it's unfair that service for Montrealers has worsened as a result of the Laval métro line, considering they pay the bulk of the operating costs.

"Montreal is such a cold city. When you see people waiting outside in minus 30C, and they don't know if the bus will come in five minutes or 25 minutes, that rider will be lost as soon as they can afford a vehicle." A Léger Marketing survey conducted for Le Journal de Montréal and TVA and made public this week found that 60 per cent of all Quebecers use cars to get to work; but half said they might switch to public transit if service improved. Many respondents complained that public transit now takes too long, is too crowded or just doesn't exist in their neighbourhood.

Vaillancourt brushes off the anti-métro sentiment, saying it only exists in Montreal, which would rather take the view "that nobody exists except them." The fact the métro is overcrowded and métro station parking lots holding 2,000 cars are full is proof the system is a success, he said. He estimates the number of new users at 4,000 to 5,000. Transport Quebec does not have statistics yet on what effects, if any, the métro has had on traffic patterns.

"Who else has been able to divert 5,000 cars?" he asked. "Nobody but Laval." For passengers like Laval resident Marco Nocella, the line is the fulfillment of a 30-year-old political promise long overdue.

"Sooner or later it would have to be built," he said. "Might as well do it now. It was necessary."

I don't know about their extension, but when I've been in Montreal I've only ever used the orange and green lines. And the yellow line once or twice.

... and montreal suburbs are far more dense than anything in the 905... this is more like running a subway to North York.

Isn't the blue line like within walking distance of the orange? All we did was walk when we were in Montreal, only took the subway to get to the casino.

Isn't the blue line like within walking distance of the orange? All we did was walk when we were in Montreal, only took the subway to get to the casino.

The Orange Line's a flying-U (aligned north-south on both ends; east-west along the centre). Blue's only east-west and intercepts Orange on its N-S legs.

Yeah, when I took a road trip to Ottawa/Montreal two summers ago, we didn't use the metro all that much either, even though our motel was only five minutes walk from the Suave subway station in Ahuntsic.

For those who think the Spadina extension won't have enough ridership, read this:

Daily ridership emanating from the three Laval stations has risen to 60,000 passengers per weekday (approximately 30,000 leaving in the morning and returning in the evening), 20 per cent higher than the 50,000 that were projected to be using it after one year.

That figure's way off in the future for the Steeles West extension, let alone taking the extension all the way to Highway 7. :ohno:

FWIW the VCC station won't have any commuter parking lots. As Vaughan/York Region envision it as a downtown district and the station designs that I have seen will have on street bus connections. Imagine the downtown stations south of Bloor and that is how Vaughan wants VCC station to be. The 407 transitway station will be the stop with major commuter parking.

Since riders will be paying an additional fare to board the subway there is no need for a separate fare paid zone within the station, aside from the main collectors booths.

Whats next building a subway to farming ville, Ont? DRL would be much more usefull as people actually live their.

Whats next building a subway to farming ville, Ont? DRL would be much more usefull as people actually live their.

That's the point. We've seen that using subways to spur development (hoping that such development will be transit oriented) is somewhat of a failure.

Transit should grow with the needs of the neighborhood from bus-streetcar-LRT-subway. Subways belong in already dense areas. Look at NY they're building the 2'nd ave subway not an extension to the fringes of (and beyond) the Bronx etc.

... exactly Eglinton should be getting the subway and Vaughn should be getting an LRT extension.

^^Neither should be getting a subway before the DRL.

Nor the Yonge extension for that matter ... then we can talk about subways to the suburbs where the "potential" for intensification exists but nothing whatsoever that merits it today .... moreover nothing that's even under construction today.

Why aren't they elevating this damn line and saving themselves a cool billion?
Fuck York U.! The noise will not be an issue as modern trains are much quieter and it will be on new track and fencing/landscaping can be made to greatly reduce noise.
If York U. wants a tunnel then they can damn well pay for it themselves. As for York Region there is NO reason for the line not to be elevated as it does not go down a major street for any length. It could also be built in half the time.

You probably have never me swear on this forum but this kind of thing REALLY pisses me off. A total disregard for taxpayers and transit users who could use those extra savings for other needed transit improvements all because some politician wwants a big ribbon-cutting ceremony.

It can't run through York U elevated or at-grade, it goes under existing buildings.

Why aren't they elevating this damn line and saving themselves a cool billion?
Fuck York U.! The noise will not be an issue as modern trains are much quieter and it will be on new track and fencing/landscaping can be made to greatly reduce noise.
If York U. wants a tunnel then they can damn well pay for it themselves. As for York Region there is NO reason for the line not to be elevated as it does not go down a major street for any length. It could also be built in half the time.

You probably have never me swear on this forum but this kind of thing REALLY pisses me off. A total disregard for taxpayers and transit users who could use those extra savings for other needed transit improvements all because some politician wwants a big ribbon-cutting ceremony.

Sorry dude, but York U itself IS the only part of this line that most definitely must be buried. I could certainly envision an elevated guideline between Chesswood (rail corridor) and Four Winds (Finch Hydro corridor) and again routed on the surface or in open-trench north of Steeles Ave, but not on the campus itself. :yes:

Neither should be getting a subway before the DRL.

http://i349.photobucket.com/albums/q378/DENTROBATE54/SUBWAYAMBITIONS.jpg
If only wishes were fishes. :(

Bump.


Nov 17, 2008 04:30 AM
Comments on this story (7)
Christopher Hume

Welcome to the better Better Way.

In anticipation of the extension of the Spadina subway north from Downsview, the TTC has hired a gaggle of globe-trotting architects to design six new stations.

Among them are two leading U.K. practitioners, Will Alsop and Norman Foster, both of whom have worked in Toronto. Alsop, of course, is the author of the celebrated "flying tabletop" at the Ontario College of Art and Design. Foster's only local project is the University of Toronto's Leslie Dan Pharmacy Building.

"If you can cheer someone up for a few minutes," Alsop declares, "it's worth it."

Though in its early stages, Alsop says his design will focus on bringing natural light and fresh air down into the bowels of the stations, which cost $8 to $15 million each. Recognizing that transit travel can be brutal, especially during the cold and dark of winter, Alsop wants to improve the experience.

"Is it possible to be a bold and beautiful subway station?" asks Alsop. "I think it is."

Certainly, if any architect could pull it off, he'd be the one. Known as a visionary, if a slightly hallucinatory one, Alsop has the rare ability to build icons that don't forget their purposes. OCAD is a perfect example; what might appear to be just an outlandish building-on-stilts solved a number of practical issues of school closure, adequate classroom space and landscaping.

"It'll have a lot to do with light," he explains. "These stations occupy a large volume and we don't want to fill them up with unnecessary stuff. If we get it right, you'll be quite happy to sit on a bench and wait for a train."

Alsop has worked on the London Underground, as has Foster, whose firm designed the enormous stop at Canary Wharf. He also did the subway stations in Bilbao, Spain, and their shell-like entrances, known locally as "Fosterinos."

"Slowly, a transformation is happening at the TTC," says commission chair Adam Giambrone. "The RFP (request for proposals) was sent out in a way that would attract architects from around the globe. The decision was informed by a renewed sense of the importance of the civic realm. We have to live with these buildings in our neighbourhoods. Design matters. You need to provide more than a concrete box."

That may not sound like the TTC talking, but don't forget that Yorkdale Station was designed by Canada's most acclaimed architect, Arthur Erickson, and that a number of the country's best-known artists have contributed works.

In other words, there are precedents. Even the ill-fated Sheppard Line incorporates artworks into the very structure of the stations.

Best of all, Giambrone insists, the federal and provincial cheques for the extension, $698 million and $1.1 billion respectively, have cleared. Add to that $400 million from York Region and $600 million from Toronto.

"We actually have the money in the bank," Giambrone says. "The project has already begun."

But, he points out, "I've learned that you have to watch these things to make sure you don't get cut back at the last minute."

It remains questionable why these stations – all free-standing structures – won't be incorporated into larger buildings, office or residential towers, as are many here and abroad. Much has been said about urban intensification, getting people out of cars and into public transit. Thus the need for a seamless infrastructure that begins where the front door ends.

Because most stations include bus bays, they will have bigger footprints; yet even these could be fitted into or under larger developments. Sooner or later, this will happen. The train has already left the station.


http://www.thestar.com/GTA/Columnist/article/538111

I resent that they intend to build this extension and resent the money going into these stations even more.

I resent that they intend to build this extension and resent the money going into these stations even more.

I wonder what will become of the Spadina Line's last overly built mega terminal station, Downsview, in a post-extension world? :ohno: Probably more ghost bus bays like what's happened to Wilson.

Predictions:

Downsview- retains Alness, Dufferin North and Sheppard West, (196?)
Sheppard West- takes over 108 Downsview (lol :lol:), Keele North, all 84 branches (e.g. Oakdale/Norfinch, Arrow Rd), the 106 and possibly adds routes 99 and 120.
Finch West- 36, 41, 107
York U- retains only the 106
Steeles West- hopefully the terminus handles all the GO/VIVA/YRT/BT routes; the 60, 35.

There is no point to extending the line past Steeles. VIVA Orange is criminally underused, and that's a bus route. What's the bloody point? And about interior desgin of the stations, I wouldn't care if they were made of mud and thatch so long as a train appeared in them every couple of minutes. Nice how they tote the aesthetic appeal of the "stubway" with forgetting to mention that none of the outer platform walls have been tiled yet. :hammer:

^^ I thought that the Sheppard West station was supposed to be very minimalist in terms of features, something along the lines of say Bessarion or Bayview. Meaning that the routes you have terminating there would still terminate at Downsview and simply service the station, no looping facilities. The 106 still needs a southerly terminus as well.

Also, if the TTC is serious about short-turning service at Downsview, then it may be wise to maintain the routes (some if not all) that feed into it.

Transit should grow with the needs of the neighborhood from bus-streetcar-LRT-subway.

... exactly Eglinton should be getting the subway and Vaughn should be getting an LRT extension.

How did you get that from what he said?

I wonder what will become of the Spadina Line's last overly built mega terminal station, Downsview, in a post-extension world? :ohno: Probably more ghost bus bays like what's happened to Wilson.

There is no point to extending the line past Steeles. VIVA Orange is criminally underused, and that's a bus route. What's the bloody point? And about interior desgin of the stations, I wouldn't care if they were made of mud and thatch so long as a train appeared in them every couple of minutes. Nice how they tote the aesthetic appeal of the "stubway" with forgetting to mention that none of the outer platform walls have been tiled yet. :hammer:


Yeah I have not found any of the particulars yet (granted I have not looked very hard).

I don't want them to build the stations so minimalist that there is no chance to improve bus/lrt connections in the future.

It is the prospect of sending each station out to tender that I disagree with. We are not Montreal and do not want to waste money on architectural details when it can better be spent making the stations/lines future proof.

^^ I thought that the Sheppard West station was supposed to be very minimalist in terms of features, something along the lines of say Bessarion or Bayview. Meaning that the routes you have terminating there would still terminate at Downsview and simply service the station, no looping facilities. The 106 still needs a southerly terminus as well.

Also, if the TTC is serious about short-turning service at Downsview, then it may be wise to maintain the routes (some if not all) that feed into it.

You're right. The sTTingy C would do just that, even if it'd be of more convenience to passengers to connect directly from Sheppard West Stn. :ohno: On average about five minutes could be shaved off commutes by not transfering @Downsview (remember there's a major bottleneck of traffic congestion at the north end of the Allen day round). The 106/7/8 particularly benefits because those routes branch off relatively closeby (Grandravine, Tuscan/St Regis, Chesswood, Sentinel). Oh well.

How did you get that from what he said?

He has a point though, Jaye. On what planet does cemeteries, farm orchards, hydro corridors and big box backlots get prioritized with a HRT subway line meanwhile density rich Eglinton, northern boundary of downtown Toronto get jipped with a glorified streetcar route? :nuts: Much the reverse should be happening. Maybe then Vaughan could afford a LRT line to Wonderland. Tasking too much transit to an area that hasn't the population to sustain it, while neglecting the inner 416 sets a bad precedent. :no:

Yeah I have not found any of the particulars yet (granted I have not looked very hard).

I don't want them to build the stations so minimalist that there is no chance to improve bus/lrt connections in the future.

It is the prospect of sending each station out to tender that I disagree with. We are not Montreal and do not want to waste money on architectural details when it can better be spent making the stations/lines future proof.

The worst part of all is that this is an upfront priority. No manner of aesethetic appeal can masquerade the fact that this extension is not warranted all the way to Hwy 7. Putting lipstick on a pig anyone? :ohno: Look at the SRT. It's minimalist yet many tote it as futuristic-looking. As time goes by, P3s can chip in to rennovate/update a station's look. Emphasis should now be on constructing station facilities, not $12 million per station arts 'n' crafts. :rant:

I have posted a couple images from the torontoist website (http://torontoist.com/2009/10/the_future_is_retro_for_steeles_west_subway.php), who got the images from the ttc. There is a pdf report from the ttc here (http://www3.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commission_reports_and_information/Commission_meetings/2009/October_29_2009/Reports/TYSSE_Steeles_West_S.pdf). There is lots more info, including plenty more elevation diagrams etc.

http://torontoist.com/attachments/QuinParker/20091029ttc-steeles-west.jpg

http://torontoist.com/attachments/QuinParker/20091029ttc-steeles-west2.jpg

I rather like the design. It's playful and different. Completion is still a long way off, so who knows if there will be changes once all is said and done.

I like everything from the Downview Park station up to SteeleWest, but for future sakes the middle portion from Wilson station up should be completely rerouted through Downsview airport. This would create a new City Centre that can recoup the cost of extenting the subway to York U. It wil also be the catalyst to a Toronto 2024 Olympic bid with subway stopping right close to the major venues, such as a New Stadium, Pools, Olympic housing etc... This idea is patented so talk to me if interested or it's off with your head for stealing. :)

It's a great looking station, but the thing that bothers me is that there is no cohesion between these new stations and the rest of the system. You have these epic cathedral like stations along the Spadina line, meanwhile you have several ugly stations on the Bloor, Danforth, and Scarborough lines.

I'd rather they fix up more older stations, and make slightly more modest stations along Spadina.

407:

DUMBEST



STATION



EVAAAAAAARRRRR!!!!!

don't forget.

The TTC didn't pick the locations for the stations or how the route is to be built and in what form. Stephen Harper did.

TTC breaks ground on subway extension
Toronto Star, 27/11/2009

After a couple of trying weeks for the TTC, transit officials and politicians gathered Friday to break ground on some good news Friday — the link that will connect the trains in the Wilson subway yard with the long-anticipated Spadina subway extension.

The $14-million link is part of the $2.4 billion, 8.6-kilometre subway extension that is supposed to be ready by 2015. Within five years of opening, it is expected to carry 30 million riders a year.

"We literally cross a new boundary in public transit delivery," said Toronto Mayor David Miller in a news release. "This will be the first subway system that crosses a municipal border linking Toronto and York Region."

Costs of the project are being shared between the federal and provincial governments and Toronto and York Region.

The new subway, which will be a major mode of transport to York University, will have six stations including:

- Sheppard West, on Downsview Park lands adjacent to the Barrie GO Transit line

- Finch West, at the corner of Keele St. and Finch Ave.

- York University, near the university common

- Steeles West, at North West Gate and Steeles Ave. east of Jane St.

- Highway 407, adjacent to Jane St.

- Vaughan Corporate Centre, near Highway 7 west of Jane St.

"We're back in the business of building transit," said TTC chair Adam Giambrone. "It's not just about moving people from A to B, it's about transforming neighbourhoods."

The six stations are being designed by internationally recognized architecture firms and will have a lighter, greener look and feel that downtown subway stops.

They will feature art installations, and commuter parking at the Finch West, Steeles West and Highway 407 stations.

Preliminary work underground has already begun and construction is scheduled for next year.

The TTC is using two giant tunnel boring machines to build twin tunnels on about six kilometres of the line.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/731742--ttc-breaks-ground-on-subway-extension

407:

DUMBEST



STATION



EVAAAAAAARRRRR!!!!!

I can imagine the announcement now.

"The next station is four-owe-seven Transitway. Four-owe-seven Transitway station."

"We literally cross a new boundary in public transit delivery," said Toronto Mayor David Miller in a news release. "This will be the first subway system that crosses a municipal border linking Toronto and York Region."

Wasn't the extension to York Mills the first TTC subway extension to cross a municipal border?

They will feature art installations, and commuter parking at the Finch West, Steeles West and Highway 407 stations.

Where are they going to fit parking in near Finch West?

Also, in defense of the 407 Transitway stop, the long term plan is to have this busway connect from Burlington to Clairington, with service branching off into surrounding suburbs and communities. You may argue it is a dumb stop, but it would be far dumber to leave it out completely.

Also, in defense of the 407 Transitway stop, the long term plan is to have this busway connect from Burlington to Clairington, with service branching off into surrounding suburbs and communities. You may argue it is a dumb stop, but it would be far dumber to leave it out completely.

There is not a single reason that that transitway can't swing via Steeles West. There's a hydro corridor with its name on it. 407 is a station that serves absolutely no useful purpose, it is provided solely for the purpose of parking. No development can ever take place around the station; graveyard on the east side (can't ride the subway if you're dead), 400-series highway on the north side, mainline freight railway and a hydro corridor on the south side, and expansive parking on the west side. Giambrone talks about the subway building communities - bullshit, there's no community associated with 407 station, period.

The only thing dumber than the station itself is defending the station as if it's a sound investment.

TTC Naming Contest, article from Torontoist.com:

Name the TTC's New Tunnel-Boring Machines

http://torontoist.com/attachments/SteveKupferman/20100910boring.png
Illustration by Brian McLachlan/Torontoist.

The TTC is holding a contest to drum up name suggestions from the public for a pair of tunnel-boring machines recently purchased to help carve out the forthcoming Toronto-York Spadina Subway Extension. Expected to be completed in 2015, the extension will add 8.6 kilometres to the Yonge-University-Spadina subway line, bringing it to Vaughan Metropolitan Centre. The contest literature stresses that the massive tunnelling machines—which look like enormous, weaponized marshmallows—need names, because naming boring machines "is tradition." In the public interest, we've compiled a few examples of boring-machine names that have already been put to use elsewhere in the world, so everyone can eliminate them from consideration from the get-go—because the names of our new subterranean diggers shouldn't be repeats of previous ones.

That would be boring.
Near Hamburg, Germany, a research facility is in the process of constructing a 3.4 kilometre tunnel to accommodate a powerful X-ray machine, for use in studying microscopic objects and chemical reactions. Their boring machine is known as TULA, which is short for "TUnnel for LAser."

Australia has done plenty of tunnelling over the past five years, and they never fail to name their machines. An underground stretch of highway between Brisbane city and its airport is being dug by Sandy, who weighs in at a svelte 3600 tonnes. The Clem Jones Tunnel, which allows cars to travel between Woolloongabba and Bowen Hills, also near Brisbane, was chewed out by Matilda, a four-thousand tonne machine, with a 12.4 metre cutting head. Rocking Ruby and Wonthaggi Maggie are digging twin tunnels for a desalination project in Victoria, while a cable tunnel in New South Wales was bored by Mary Ann.

Gabi 1 and Gabi 2, twin sisters, dug through more than seven kilometres of gneiss apiece to create a pair of new traffic tunnels in Switzerland.

Closer to home, a Richmond Hill grade three student gave the name "Motorclara" to a machine that was used to dig sewers in the Regional Municipality of York. Big Becky is in the process of digging a ten-kilometre power tunnel under Niagara Falls—a project that has faced years of setbacks, because rocks from overhead have been tumbling onto her backside, creating a dangerous situation for workers.

Rosie, who is in the process of digging a sewer tunnel for Portland, Oregon, tweets status updates.

Extrapolating from these examples, it seems likely that winners of the TTC's contest will be female names that are either somewhat "strong" sounding ("Rocking Ruby"), or are ironically petite ("TULA"). Enter the contest right here, for a chance to win a "token of appreciation" and the opportunity to attend the launch of the two machines.



CORRECTION: SEPTEMBER 10, 2010 "Sandy," the Brisbane airport link boring machine, is carving out a subterranean motorway, and not a rail tunnel, as this post originally stated.

By Steve Kupferman on September 10, 2010 4:35 PM 12

From TTC web site:

Tunnel Boring Machines Naming Contest
Choose two winners!

Online voting October 8 to 22

Thank you to all those creative people who participated in the Toronto-York Spadina Subway Extension's naming contest for the twin tunnel boring machines. From September 10 - 24th, you submitted over 700 pairs of names.

The judging panel has selected ten finalists and now it is your turn to vote for two winning names, one for each pair of tunnel boring machines.

The votes will be tallied and the two winners will be contacted in early November. Winners will be invited to attend a special event where the tunnel boring machines will be on display.

NOTE: Only one vote per person is accepted and no automated voting is allowed.

For further details, go to www.toronto.ca/tbmcontest

Vote online from October 8 until midnight on October 22, 2010.

The votes will be tallied and the two winners will be contacted in early November. Winners will be invited to attend a special event where the tunnel boring machines will be on display.

Ten finalists are listed below.
Select your two favourites:

Bitsy and Bory

Dewey Digg and Dug Itall

Diglet 1 and Diglet 2

Ebb and Flo

Holey and Moley

Hufff and Puff

See and Saw

Slice and Dice

Tweedledig and Tweedledug

Yorkie and Torkie
http://wx.toronto.ca/inter/ttc/name_entry.nsf/Vote?OpenForm

^^ I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.

A $2.4 billion subway seems far too rich for something that only serves 80,000 passengers a day (extrapolated from 30 million a year) within 5 years of operation. Not to mention this is out in the sticks... York University will likely be the only station that has ridership. The rest are located in sparse, isolated and unwalkable locations next to expressways, high-voltage transmission lines, and car-centric office parks. I can't think of any city in the world that spends extra to bury its suburban rapid transit, and all for such small ridership projections.

I guess they are banking on teh hope that the subway will spur dense development in these areas. You know....like planning for the future?

What makes me happy about all this is that it will be easier to go to Toronto from Brampton. Taking the BRT and ta dah, will pass by the subway.

Seems faster and cheaper than the GO :)

I guess they are banking on teh hope that the subway will spur dense development in these areas. You know....like planning for the future?

Lots of small towns want to see dense development in "the future". But some density has to be there in the first place to even justify a rapid bus route or LRT. Typically, any skytrain or subway line is built to replace an existing high-traffic transit corridor. Tunnelling under industrial parks and empty swaths of land is an unprecedented waste of the kind of money that few cities in North America have in this day and age.

Why we even want dense development on the far fringes of the GTA is another question entirely...

Why a subway connecting to YYZ and Mississauga isn't the first priority is also perplexing.

Why a subway connecting to YYZ and Mississauga isn't the first priority is also perplexing.

It's embarrassing that we STILL don't have a train service, an express train service to be exact, to out airport. Just look at London with the Heathrow Express which runs along with the Underground as well. The 192 Airport Express is nice, but for a tourists first experience in Toronto to be of a dirty slow bus...kinda sucks.

A $2.4 billion subway seems far too rich for something that only serves 80,000 passengers a day (extrapolated from 30 million a year) within 5 years of operation. Not to mention this is out in the sticks... York University will likely be the only station that has ridership. The rest are located in sparse, isolated and unwalkable locations next to expressways, high-voltage transmission lines, and car-centric office parks. I can't think of any city in the world that spends extra to bury its suburban rapid transit, and all for such small ridership projections.

Certain politicians just so happen to own land in certain places where this subway just so happens to be heading. Not that I'm insinuating anything here of course. :)

It's embarrassing that we STILL don't have a train service, an express train service to be exact, to out airport. Just look at London with the Heathrow Express which runs along with the Underground as well. The 192 Airport Express is nice, but for a tourists first experience in Toronto to be of a dirty slow bus...kinda sucks.

They are building one from Pearson to Union soon

Certain politicians just so happen to own land in certain places where this subway just so happens to be heading. Not that I'm insinuating anything here of course. :)

Isn't that kind of corruption a little too blatant? Where's the public outcry, esp from Mississauga people?

Globe article:

Aecon Wins $279-million TTC Subway Deal

TORONTO— The Canadian Press
Published Friday, Nov. 19, 2010 8:46AM EST
Last updated Friday, Nov. 19, 2010 8:49AM EST


Construction and infrastructure development company Aecon Group Inc. says it has been awarded a $279-million contract by Toronto Transit Commission to extend one of the city's main subway lines northward.

The agreement will add two additional subway stops beyond Downsview station, which is current at one end of the U-shaped Yonge-University-Spadina line.

The new stops will be Sheppard West station and Finch West station.

Part of the contract is a joint venture with McNally Construction, Kiewit Construction, and Aecon Constructors to construct 2.6 kilometres of twin tunnel subway track, the company said.

Construction will begin in December and is expected to continue until April, 2014.

“This award is an excellent illustration of the strategy and benefits of bringing Aecon Buildings into the Infrastructure group,” said Teri McKibbon, chief executive of Aecon's Infrastructure group.

“Working together with our partners at McNally and Kiewit, this project will be planned and executed by a strong team including Aecon Buildings and Aecon Constructors personnel.”

Aecon's infrastructure segment includes the construction of both public and private infrastructure, including roads and highways, as well as dams, tunnels and hydroelectric power projects.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/aecon-wins-279-million-ttc-subway-deal/article1805705/?cmpid=rss1

Inside Toronto article featuring the design of the new Finch West Station:

New Subway Design on Display


http://media.mmgcommunity.topscms.com/images/35/e7/b38982d9468cb132c044ad0bd3bc.jpeg
New subway design on display. The final design of the Finch West subway station will be the subject of an open house Thursday. Courtesy/TTC

TIM FORAN
November 22, 2010


The TTC will unveil its final design for Finch West Station at an open house Thursday, Nov. 25.

Finch West, located at Keele Street and Finch Avenue, is one of six new stations that will be built along the 8.6 kilometre Spadina subway extension from Downsview to Vaughan. Service on the $2.6 billion line is scheduled to begin in 2015.

The main entrance to the new Finch West station will be on the northwest corner of Keele and Finch, according to a conceptual design approved earlier this year.

Across the street, a bus terminal with an automatic entrance will be built on Keele just north of Finch. A 370-space parking lot will be built north of the terminal in the hydro corridor. (A larger 1,900-space parking lot is scheduled to be built at Steeles West Station, which will be located at Northwest Gate and Steeles Avenue above York University.)

A picture of the final design for Finch West's main entrance included on the TTC's website shows a colourfully striped, single-storey structure in a park setting.

http://www.insidetoronto.com/news/cityhall/article/906328--new-subway-design-on-display

another subway station in the middle of nowhere :lol:

I predict Keele - Finch station will be a very busy station. Easily the most heavily used station north of Eglinton West

Finch West will take a chunk of passengers away from having to go Finch station. This is what's going to allow the Yonge line extenting to Hwy7.

The line should not be extended north of York U. The TTC should concern itself with servicing Toronto first. Once it's built out, then it can consider suburban extensions.

Yonge is built up all the way to Oak Ridges without a single gap and if not for the little gap for the large cementary up in Aurora you can easily argue it's built out all the way to Holland Landings.

^^That is a depressing thought...

Yonge is built up all the way to Oak Ridges without a single gap and if not for the little gap for the large cementary up in Aurora you can easily argue it's built out all the way to Holland Landings.I'm not sure if you were responding to me, but I wasn't talking about whether or not city was built up. I was saying that the TTC shouldn't be expanding its coverage into other municipalities until it has satisfied all transit needs within the Toronto (completed lines like DRL, and Eglinton, added new lightrail and streetcar lines, etc).

^^Read Rob Ford thread, with all the tax cuts and Sheppard line going to STC there might not be money left. Starting to get the feeling the only underground any of the other LRT lines are going to be dead as well as buried.

But that's a good thing because isn't Eglinton just one block up from St. Clairs new ROW LRT. How many LRT tracks does midtown really need. Maybe a ROW LRT would have been better served built on Eglington, half way between Bloor and Sheppard, but it's alittle too late. Gotta wait till after Mayor Ford leaves office.

I could not find a York Region related thread. About time! Viva Buses will be using the Busway in April.


Since August, York University students and staff have been boarding TTC and York Region’s Viva buses interchangeably, thanks to a fare swap arrangement.

But only TTC riders have enjoyed the time savings of the busway that opened in November 2009 along the Finch hydro corridor.

Finally, that’s about to change. York Region Transit general manager Rick Leary said the transit system has obtained agreements that will give Viva the rights to the busway in April.

That’s too late for most students this year, but should cut the commute of those who use the campus year-round and those returning in the fall.

“Having a designated lane, you don’t get caught up in mixed traffic. It improves travel times,” said YRT general manager Rick Leary, who joined the transit system last winter.

While Toronto has a $4.54 million easement agreement with Ontario Realty Corp. and a $5,400 agreement with Imperial Oil to allow use of their property along the hydro corridor, York Region has been slower to put those contracts in place, he said. The busway shaves at least four minutes off the trip between Downsview Station and York, according to the TTC.

It doesn’t sound like much, but the reliability factor is significant, said Scott Haskill, of TTC service planning.

“Before the busway the buses were in mixed traffic and they regularly took well more than 20 minutes for the trip. Service was very uneven and unreliable. Travel time on the new busway route is much more consistent, and the service is more reliable,” he said.

The TTC pays Toronto about $140,000 annually to maintain the busway and York will pay about $40,000.

YRT expects to operate about 150 weekday trips daily on the right-of-way.

Metrolinx is also expecting to finalize agreements to use the busway for GO Transit buses in the spring. It would be used for about 20,000 non-revenue trips a year.

The busway includes transit-exclusive sections along the hydro corridor north of Finch Ave. and dedicated lanes on Dufferin St.

The subway to York University isn’t expected to open before 2015.


http://www.thestar.com/news/transportation/article/935893--yrt-to-start-using-busway-this-spring

Say hello for future [Sheppard west station]

http://s012.radikal.ru/i319/1107/0a/068da551afd9.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)

http://i043.radikal.ru/1107/22/0b6e02922c84.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)

http://i063.radikal.ru/1107/f1/edc26eb0fe14.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)

http://s42.radikal.ru/i098/1107/65/bc58f9b037f2.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)

http://s55.radikal.ru/i148/1107/c8/a7a7deea0d1b.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)

http://s59.radikal.ru/i166/1107/fe/c3f3cec93083.jpg (http://www.radikal.ru)

^^ wow thats nice. GO will be using this station as well?

^^ wow thats nice. GO will be using this station as well?

I think so, but I required professional opinion :)

There will be a GO station at Sheppard West Station.

The line should not be extended north of York U. The TTC should concern itself with servicing Toronto first. Once it's built out, then it can consider suburban extensions.

Most transit systems in major cities (London, Paris, NY) around the world extend past city limits and into the suburbs.
Considering that a large portion of the rush hour traffic is due to people coming from out of the city the Spadina extension is not a bad idea.
This way those that commute from Vaughan to Yorkdale and then hop on the TTC will be able to park at Vaughan Mills and get on the subway instead of using the 400 and 401.
Also the region of York is paying for the extension to v. mills

Most transit systems in major cities (London, Paris, NY) around the world extend past city limits and into the suburbs.
Considering that a large portion of the rush hour traffic is due to people coming from out of the city the Spadina extension is not a bad idea.
This way those that commute from Vaughan to Yorkdale and then hop on the TTC will be able to park at Vaughan Mills and get on the subway instead of using the 400 and 401.
Also the region of York is paying for the extension to v. mills

The extension will not go to Vaughan Mills, it stops at the Future Shop/Walmart at Highway 7/Jane.

York Region is paying the civic portion of the Capital costs, TTC will be responsible for the Operating costs, but will collect all revenues.

not as sweet of a deal but still a grab

Most transit systems in major cities (London, Paris, NY) around the world extend past city limits and into the suburbs.
Considering that a large portion of the rush hour traffic is due to people coming from out of the city the Spadina extension is not a bad idea.
This way those that commute from Vaughan to Yorkdale and then hop on the TTC will be able to park at Vaughan Mills and get on the subway instead of using the 400 and 401.
Also the region of York is paying for the extension to v. mills
First of all, I never said the transit lines shouldn't be allowed to leave city limits, I said the TTC should serve the city first and not extend outward until the municipality of Toronto's transit needs are satisfied.

Second, those are terrible examples you provided considering that the NY subway doesn't actually leave NY city limits, the Paris metro only leaves the city limits since the small Paris limits basically only cover downtown Paris and the densest part of the inner city, and with London, they have the world's 2nd longest subway surpassed only (slightly) by Shanghai with extensive inner city coverage.

None of those places are extending the subway system out into the suburban environs when the city itself is in need of more service.

Toronto-York Spadina Subway Extension - Subway Station Naming - Public Consultation

The Toronto Transit Commission would like your views on the proposed names for the new stations on the extension of the Spadina Subway from Downsview Station to the City of Vaughan. Whenever possible, TTC station names make direct reference to their geographic location, to aid passengers and to ensure that the most-prominent words on the walls of the station provide useful information for customers finding their way in the city.

The TTC will decide on the final names for the stations, using the feedback from this consultation as a guide.

Thank you for your participation.

Fill out the consultation form now! http://www3.ttc.ca/survey/Response_load.action?surveyId=8

You can also print out the Toronto-York Spadina Subway Extension - Subway Station Naming - Public Consultation and mail or fax the form back to us no later than Friday, October 21st, 2011. All responses must reach us on or before that date. http://www3.ttc.ca/PDF/Customer_Surveys/TYSSE_Subway_Station_Naming_Public_Consultation_Print.pdf


Spadina Subway Extension Route Map http://www3.ttc.ca/PDF/About_the_TTC/sse_routemap1.pdf

For more information about the subway extension, please visit the TYSSE Overview. http://www3.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Projects_and_initiatives/Spadina_subway_extension/Overview.jsp

TTC create activity map on their website:

http://www3.ttc.ca/Spadina/Plan_your_Trip/Construction_Activity_Maps/All_Neighbourhoods/index.jsp

http://www3.ttc.ca/Spadina/Plan_your_Trip/Construction_Activity_Maps/index.jsp

Report from 16/10/2011. Real situation looks like not so exiting...

East side of Sheppard West
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4690/dsc04783c.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/214/dsc04783c.jpg/)
West side of Sheppard West
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/1908/dsc04785c.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/69/dsc04785c.jpg/)

Finch West station
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/550/dsc04791b.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/411/dsc04791b.jpg/)
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/5255/dsc04793r.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/192/dsc04793r.jpg/)

York University station
http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/1061/dsc04788l.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/585/dsc04788l.jpg/)
http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/9270/dsc04789z.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/853/dsc04789z.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Any news of delays because of the collapse of the piling rig at York station causing 1 death?

Investigation is going on...R.I.P. for that guy...

Question....................will the Sheppard West station be as an interchange station? What I mean is will it be built as a double station to begin with like the Queen St, station where it was built as as an assumption that it would be a transfer point for the ever illusive Queen St DRL?
I hope they are going to as it is always easier and cheaper than building them like that first than building them separately. It's also far less disruptive to the local area.
God knows the Spadina Ext stations are costing enough so I hope that this is the case.

The Sheppard subway is supposed to strike Downsview station and not Sheppard West.

The Sheppard subway is supposed to strike Downsview station and not Sheppard West.assuming it ever gets west of Yonge St.

Cheers, m

Why this thread still in "Expropriation" mode? May be we should change it to U/C ?

http://www.bricoleurbanism.org/whimsicality/the-subway-to-nowhere/

The Subway to Nowhere?


The Spadina subway extension to Vaughan is under construction and scheduled to be open for the end of 2015, but where exactly is this thing going? Sure it goes to York University (which I think most people would accept is a good idea), but there will be a full 2 more stations north of Steeles Ave into Vaughan, so what exactly is up there? See above… Oh dear… It looks like we’re extending a subway line that originally kind of went to nowhere, to another even more extreme nowhere, a vast sea of single-storey warehousing, manufacturing, big box stores and railway lands. But wait! Building a subway will result in massive development right? So this area is ripe for a total makeover, right? Oh wait a minute… here’s the famed subway-driven development along the Yonge St corridor north of highway 401 from Sheppard Ave to north of Finch at the same scale, the result of almost 40 years of development.

Oh wait a minute… here’s the famed subway-driven development along the Yonge St corridor north of highway 401 from Sheppard Ave to north of Finch at the same scale, the result of almost 40 years of development.

That section of Finch looks to be half as large as downtown. I know it isn't, and isn't nearly as productive (GDP wise); but from those photos it certainly looks like a success.

Finch, after 40 years with one subway line (and 10 with two) is 1/2 the size of downtown which has had two subway, and a large number of streetcar for 50 years; plus half a dozen commuter rail lines added since.

If VCC adds a couple dozen large condo and office buildings around it over 40 years then it will have been a success.


No, I don't think it was a good place to put a subway either but the data you presented for your argument was in favour, not against.

I would not say Vaughan Station is nowhere, there's a lot of big box commerces around..
I will admit Highway 407 Station has a forbidding location, but it would be practical for buses or cars to drop-off commuters into the subway system.
(but to be really practical they have to built convenient highway access, so drivers don't waste time exiting and accessing the highway).

http://i54.tinypic.com/14wr7r7.png

Although I don't think the expansion north of YorkU is neccesary, to be quite frank. it's none of Toronto's damn business.
The City of Toronto isn't paying for one cent of the line north of Steeles and Vaughn does have 250,000 so it's not like it won't be used. Even if it results in an extra 20,000 riders a day coming from Vaughn into Toronto everyday that does result in higher TTC revenue but with no higher costs as the trains will be running every 2 minutes regardless.
For myself I don't have as much of a concern of why they are going there but rather how they are getting there. There is absolutly no reason, at all, why the entire Spadina extension shouldn't have been elevated/at grade including thru YorkU.
Toronto has a mentality when it comes to subway..............bury or nothing. Need less to say Toronto has chosen the latter for the last 30 years which has left it with a truly mickey-mouse system for a area of over 6 million.

... but with no higher costs as the trains will be running every 2 minutes regardless.

Just to nit-pick.

Stations need attendants, cleaned, certain response times for TTC emergency maintenance staff (meaning they need to be positioned nearby), among other things.

Tunnels and rails need regular inspections and repair (several hundred million per year for 70km). This few km into Vaughan will have a cost.

The reason why Toronto runs trains mostly empty every 5 minutes at midnight is that running the train is nearly free compared to all of the other expenses in having the subway.


That said trains into Vaughan will be roughly every 4 minutes at peak periods since every other train will be turned back at Steeles or earlier.

Although I don't think the expansion north of YorkU is neccesary, to be quite frank. it's none of Toronto's damn business.
The City of Toronto isn't paying for one cent of the line north of Steeles and Vaughn does have 250,000 so it's not like it won't be used.

The City is on the hook for the operating costs north of Steeles, so it`s very much their damn business.

There is an interesting article about the proposed Expo City "downtown" development at Vaughan Metropolitan Centre...

See this article here (http://www.yourhome.ca/homes/realestate/article/1072818--expo-city-will-help-transform-vaughan).

Cheers, m
I would not say Vaughan Station is nowhere, there's a lot of big box commerces around..
I will admit Highway 407 Station has a forbidding location, but it would be practical for buses or cars to drop-off commuters into the subway system.
(but to be really practical they have to built convenient highway access, so drivers don't waste time exiting and accessing the highway).

http://i54.tinypic.com/14wr7r7.png

I would not say Vaughan Station is nowhere, there's a lot of big box commerces around..
<snip>

I don't think a collection of big box stores make for good transport hubs. Thats also my problem with trying to force STC & Richmond Hill Centre to act as a transport hub.

I don't think a collection of big box stores make for good transport hubs. Thats also my problem with trying to force STC & Richmond Hill Centre to act as a transport hub.

Nothing there of real value. Nice thing about big box stores is they come down just as easily as they went up.

I'm not in favour of going to VCC (very low priority project) but there is no reason it cannot have 30,000 people living within 1km of the station a decade or two after it is built. In reality, it was sold as allowing a Yonge line extension which McGuinty seemed to really want to fund.

Nothing there of real value. Nice thing about big box stores is they come down just as easily as they went up.

I'm not in favour of going to VCC (very low priority project) but there is no reason it cannot have 30,000 people living within 1km of the station a decade or two after it is built. In reality, it was sold as allowing a Yonge line extension which McGuinty seemed to really want to fund.That's what I was thinking about - how many people and how many square blocks need to be made "dense" before the area feels like a "downtown" and the subway is justified.

And how effective can a downtown be when there are big box stores just next door.*

Cheers, m

*St. Clair Ave. west of Keele has a collection of Big Box stores that, while they aren't exactly urban, they have been scaled and sited to fit the area.

There is an interesting article about the proposed Expo City "downtown" development at Vaughan Metropolitan Centre...

See this article here (http://www.yourhome.ca/homes/realestate/article/1072818--expo-city-will-help-transform-vaughan).

Cheers, m

Interesting article! If all of this comes true, the current big box stores will have to go.

http://i41.tinypic.com/ziuowm.png

Interesting article! If all of this comes true, the current big box stores will have to go.

http://i41.tinypic.com/ziuowm.pngthat's an interesting article.

I think that it's good to build some higher density and mixed-use development around the Jane and 7 intersection - but they are still retaining the low-density commercial & factories outside of the immediate neighbourhood of the intersection - meaning that it would be a challenge for people to access the Vaughan Metropolitan Centre area (not to mention, Vaughan Centre station) without their own mode of transportation.

Cheers, m

Just a little update on the Vaughan Subway station:

The site is 1500m long (1.5km) and Futureshop is complaining about the noise so we will be building hoarding with some sort of soundproof barrier to eliminate that noise. Also the rigs are supposed to be drilling 3 holes per day but they are doing approximately 1 per week... Definitely behind schedule.....

Despite for this dispute regarding utility of Spadina Subway Extension this extension still going on :)
Sheppard West Station
It is noticeable progress since my last report...
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/6529/dsc04904f.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/42/dsc04904f.jpg/)
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/8951/dsc04905x.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/694/dsc04905x.jpg/)

Finch Ave West Station
Quite messy area, almost collapse of public transportation :)
No actual change of main construction site
http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/8201/dsc04907z.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/826/dsc04907z.jpg/)
But they are digging in the middle of the Keele street :nuts:
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/8929/dsc04912e.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/207/dsc04912e.jpg/)

York University Station
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/3539/dsc04913r.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/406/dsc04913r.jpg/)
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/3060/dsc04914r.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/190/dsc04914r.jpg/)
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6184/dsc04916c.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/402/dsc04916c.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Steeles West Station
So hard to get close to construction site :ohno:
http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/8954/dsc04919b.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/833/dsc04919b.jpg/)
http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/8044/dsc04921g.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/818/dsc04921g.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Because of strike of VIVA drivers I decided do not move to Vaughan, so sorry for 2 last stations absence.

Let's not forget that Yonge Street is the spine connecting most municipalities in York Region - having a subway extension to Highway 7 in Richmond Hill along Yonge made more sense than the Spadina Extension, but both the VCC and the RHC (Richmond Hill Centre) are planned as high density areas anticipating transit. The area around RHC is planned to be the densest concentration in RH, which for a suburban municipality, has no where else to go but up.

That being said, damn, I wish there was an Eglinton subway.

Holy crap! The Sheppard West Station pics really help me to grasp the scale of this project.

That area seems really empty and open. Look at all that room they have for construction.

I hope this project will encourage more density above the 401.

amazing, thank you!

Holy crap! The Sheppard West Station pics really help me to grasp the scale of this project.

That area seems really empty and open. Look at all that room they have for construction.

I hope this project will encourage more density above the 401.

Sheppard West is inside Downsview Park, so those pictures are basically looking at the north end of the airfield

Despite for this dispute regarding utility of Spadina Subway Extension this extension still going on :)
Sheppard West Station
It is noticeable progress since my last report...
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/6529/dsc04904f.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/42/dsc04904f.jpg/)
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/8951/dsc04905x.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/694/dsc04905x.jpg/)


Just wow. They could be building this in the outskirts of Yelowknife...

Really cool graphic on the construction of the Spadina Extension:

http://nationalpostnews.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/to0504_subway_expansion.pdf

I was just poring over this for half an hour. Very cool and informative.

Here's a link to the GIF file for those that don't want to download a PDF:

http://nationalpostnews.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/to0504_subway_expansion_2500.gif

This will surely serve all of you from scarborough and the surrounding areas once its done.

This will surely serve all of you from scarborough and the surrounding areas once its done.

Huh?

Huh?


Oooops sorry i meant it for the Scarborough LRT projects. :lol:

its been a long time since i was in toronto. are the new subway cars being used yet? what are the reviews on them?

New cars are in use, I'd guess they compromise somewhere around 30% of the service on Y-U-S.

New cars are in use, I'd guess they compromise somewhere around 30% of the service on Y-U-S.

Or comprise. Lets not compromise when it comes to new subway cars. Love them by the way.

Or comprise. Lets not compromise when it comes to new subway cars. Love them by the way.

Agreed. They are nice, however, I'm way more excited about the new Bombardier Flexity vehicles arriving. There will be a test model delivered to the TTC this summer! Exciting!

Agreed. They are nice, however, I'm way more excited about the new Bombardier Flexity vehicles arriving. There will be a test model delivered to the TTC this summer! Exciting!

I'm looking forward to that too. In fact, just yesterday I was checking out this Steve Munro page: http://stevemunro.ca/?p=5714 and this TTC page: http://lrv.ttc.ca/Meet_Your_New_Ride.aspx with lots of info and pics.

Too bad we won't see them in actual operation until 2014 at the earliest.

I'm looking forward to that too. In fact, just yesterday I was checking out this Steve Munro page: http://stevemunro.ca/?p=5714 and this TTC page: http://lrv.ttc.ca/Meet_Your_New_Ride.aspx with lots of info and pics.

Too bad we won't see them in actual operation until 2014 at the earliest.

2 years will go by faster than you think. :wink2:

Cool! So new subway cars, and street cars! So how will the LRT on the new transit city lines look?

Also how are the presto cards working out? Im living in Seoul which uses a reusable card system called t-money which can be used on any transit including taxi's and even vending machines in subways stations. Its amazing. I hope presto is well on it way to becoming the same thing?

Cool! So new subway cars, and street cars! So how will the LRT on the new transit city lines look?

Also how are the presto cards working out? Im living in Seoul which uses a reusable card system called t-money which can be used on any transit including taxi's and even vending machines in subways stations. Its amazing. I hope presto is well on it way to becoming the same thing?

The TTC only has limited availability with the Presto Card, 14 of the Subway stations according to this list (http://www3.ttc.ca/Fares_and_passes/Fare_information/Presto_Fare_System/index.jsp), it's basically a convenience for people using regional or GO transit to access the subway at this time. Most of the the GTHA regional systems have fully adopted Presto, Durham being the only one that has it only as a co-fare to the GO System

Full rollout of the system to the TTC is supposed to be happening by late 2014, it will be with the next Generation of the Presto system. Currently Presto relies heavily on the back-end system, meaning when you add cash to your Presto Card, it takes up to 24 hours for it to be seen by the card readers at the stations/buses. The Next Gen system is supposed to remedy this as well as adding some forms of Open Payment (phones with NFC's and Contactless Credit Cards)

PNG will be available on the Ottawa rollout this summer and is supposed to be systemwide this fall, though I would not be surprised to see that pushed back should the Ottawa rollout not go smoothly

Thank you for the reply! I can not wait for the presto system to be up and running. These systems only make things easier and will bring more people to public transit. Have you guys ever lived in a city with a similar system? Makes such a massive difference.

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/5360/a65265321.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/33/a65265321.jpg/)

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http://www.ttc.ca/Spadina/Project_News/Construction_News/News_by_Date/2012/December/Dec312_Yorkie_and_Torkie_Complete_2nd_Section_of_Tunnels.jsp