Here's the Arden Hills proposal:
I realize this is way early in the game, but even then these are some incredibly crude and weak images to pull from. By now Mr. Wilf has surely had time to pitch ideas of imagery and form to pull from, especially for a site that is essentially a blank slate. I can't even imagine these being used for an RFP, let alone a promotional piece by the supposedly chosen firm. Shame on you, Populous.

So the Metrodome site proposal is now dead?

Seems so. The Vikings don't sound enthusiastic about playing at TCF Stadium for 3 years. They'll lose around $40 million in revenue. Also Zygi Wilf will get development rights for the surrounding land. Cha-Ching!

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site569/2011/0510/20110510__110511TCCAPVikingsStadium.jpg

If there is no stadium deal by the end of this legislative session then we go back to the drawing board so we might still see a new stadium on the Metrodome site.

My guess is that nothing happens this year. The state budget deficit is just too big and there are claims that the numbers the Republicans want to use to balance it aren't realistic. I don't see this as being politically doable.

If there is no stadium deal by the end of this legislative session then we go back to the drawing board so we might still see a new stadium on the Metrodome site.

My guess is that nothing happens this year. The state budget deficit is just too big and there are claims that the numbers the Republicans want to use to balance it aren't realistic. I don't see this as being politically doable.

The drawing board wouldn't be blank though. Below is the link to Ramsey County-Vikings Agreement. It looks pretty well developed. The budget bills are all now in conference committee. A deal will be made. We'll just have to see if there's time for the Vikings. But it looks like Ramsey County is stepping up in the way Hennepin did for the Twins. There might be just enough time and votes to get this done.

http://blogs.twincities.com/politics/Term%20Sheet%20%285-10-11%29.pdf

By the way, does that ammunitions plant on the proposed Arden Hills site still exist?

According to the satellite image from Google Maps, the area around the site is just empty fields.

The drawing board wouldn't be blank though. Below is the link to Ramsey County-Vikings Agreement. It looks pretty well developed. The budget bills are all now in conference committee. A deal will be made. We'll just have to see if there's time for the Vikings. But it looks like Ramsey County is stepping up in the way Hennepin did for the Twins. There might be just enough time and votes to get this done.

http://blogs.twincities.com/politics/Term%20Sheet%20%285-10-11%29.pdf

But remember, the Ramsey County sales tax is still contingent on the passing of the Senate Bill as the county commission will have the ability to levy a higher tax without it going to the voters. No state = no agreement and the legislative session ends next Saturday.

But remember, the Ramsey County sales tax is still contingent on the passing of the Senate Bill as the county commission will have the ability to levy a higher tax without it going to the voters. No state = no agreement and the legislative session ends next Saturday.

They did it for the Twins, I think they'll likely do so for the Vikings. They may run out of time, but I think the bill will pass in a later legislature session if they don't make it in this one.

They did it for the Twins, I think they'll likely do so for the Vikings. They may run out of time, but I think the bill will pass in a later legislature session if they don't make it in this one.

Washington and Seattle did it for the Mariners and Seahawks, but not the Sonics. "they did it before" is never a guarantee.

I wish California would kick in some money for the Chargers stadium. :(

I wish California would kick in some money for the Chargers stadium. :(

That's about the state's 4,370,929th priority right now.

Here's the Arden Hills proposal:

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/6382/vikingsardenhills01.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/823/vikingsardenhills01.jpg/)


http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/1691/vikingsardenhills02.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/820/vikingsardenhills02.jpg/)


http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/2834/vikingsardenhills03.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/20/vikingsardenhills03.jpg/)


http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/7673/vikingsardenhills04.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/18/vikingsardenhills04.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Is it me or is this a very poor presentation, I don´t have a clue how the stadium is gonna look like to be hounest.
(don´t tell it´s me!:bash:)

By the way, does that ammunitions plant on the proposed Arden Hills site still exist?

According to the satellite image from Google Maps, the area around the site is just empty fields.

Here's a pic of Arden Hills now...

http://i.imgur.com/dzECX.jpg

I wish California would kick in some money for the Chargers stadium. :(
Never, ever going to happen. California had the ill fortune of being the first of the states to tumble into the financial black hole that they are all going through. And now that they are closest to clawing their way out, they will not screw it up by tossing bundles of cash they cannot afford at the 6+ groups looking for money to build a new stadium.

Edit: 6+ groups within California.

And to get back to the Vikings: those first sketches make it look like a giant commode. And if I lived in Minnesota I would be looking to string up the nearest legislator who voted to take away my right to vote on a tax increase. Whether I would have voted for it or not, voting on it is a right.
:soapbox:

Here's a pic of Arden Hills now...

http://i.imgur.com/dzECX.jpg
This just keeps getting better and better ...

Wouldn't be the first stadium built on a former munitions site. Dick Sporting Goods Park (Colorado Rapids home field) is built in the southwest corner of the rocky mountain arsenal. That being said, I'm hoping this deal falls through and the metrodome replacement goes through.

I think most of us do. Zygi does seem pretty deadset on getting in on parking revenue and getting play developer which would be much easier with a blank slate. And Ramsey county has been willing to throw around a little more money. That having been said every other factor seems to point to the Metrodome site being the most ideal choice.

http://i.imgur.com/dzECX.jpg

Is that the Twin Cities or Abbottabad?

:lol:

Never, ever going to happen. California had the ill fortune of being the first of the states to tumble into the financial black hole that they are all going through. And now that they are closest to clawing their way out, they will not screw it up by tossing bundles of cash they cannot afford to build a new stadium.

Then what about the new 49ers stadium in Santa Clara?

Or does that stadium proposal have more of an advantage due to the fact that it will be built in Silicon Valley?

Is that the Twin Cities or Abbottsabad?

:lol:

It does look pretty grim huh. Not quite the same vibrancy as downtown Minneapolis, thats for damn sure!

I think most of us do. Zygi does seem pretty deadset on getting in on parking revenue and getting play developer which would be much easier with a blank slate. And Ramsey county has been willing to throw around a little more money. That having been said every other factor seems to point to the Metrodome site being the most ideal choice.

Ideal for us taxpayers. I doubt ideal from the Vikings perspective. There's the matter of lost revenue in having to play at TCF Stadium for three years during construction. The agreement between Ramsey County and the Vikings clearly shows the team is going to benefit more financially than the public in the long run.

I'll be satisfied with the project as long as the redevelopment of all the TCAAP land occurs and there are no serious cost overruns that fall on the taxpayers. If the Vikings were to move from Winter Park to Ramsey County (a possibility under the agreement), that'd be a nice bonus.

A new stadium in downtown Minneapolis would be great. But I just don't see the accompanying development surrounding it occurring. Maybe a flashier stadium than the dome would lure the long promised new development. But that's a big IF. And if it were to occur, I bet it'd still require big public subsidies like TIF to make it happen.

Then what about the new 49ers stadium in Santa Clara?

Or does that stadium proposal have more of an advantage due to the fact that it will be built in Silicon Valley?

That's getting state funding?!

Is that the Twin Cities or Abbottabad?
:lol:
Abbottabad is actually a nice looking area, if you look in the background. Semi rural; lots of trees and green hills. Now I understand why all of the generals have their weekend cottages there. Osama picked a nice place to hide out. I loved the one report on BBCAmerica where you could see the local golf course behind the guy talking into the camera.

Then what about the new 49ers stadium in Santa Clara?

Or does that stadium proposal have more of an advantage due to the fact that it will be built in Silicon Valley?
The Niners are basically planning on 1/3 naming rights, 1/3 PSL type money and 1/3 out-of-pocket/financed. Now, these are very rough approximations, so if you go diving into a spreadsheet and start to quibble about the bottom line you will be ignored. I am not an insider.

But the fact that they are aiming at getting $250-300 million for naming rights does imply an advantage gained from the Silicon Valley location.

And this part you can inscribe in stone: the state of California will not give any money to acquisition, construction or maintenance of a sports stadium in our lifetimes.

That's getting state funding?!
Nope. Not in California. Never have, never will.

In terms of questioning what may happen to the 49ers, the Chargers or the Raiders, save that for those specific threads. If one has questions, look at the clock ticking on the Minnesota State Legislature needing to make choices in relation to their budget deficit and how to pass this stadium bill.

That is it.

As I post, there is one week left for those elected officials. One week.

In terms of questioning what may happen to the 49ers, the Chargers or the Raiders, save that for those specific threads. If one has questions, look at the clock ticking on the Minnesota State Legislature needing to make choices in relation to their budget deficit and how to pass this stadium bill.

That is it.

As I post, there is one week left for those elected officials. One week.
Not a chance. Poor Vikings.

Here's a video fly through video someone made of the renderings...

g0KXc7SpbXs

St. Paul mayor not ready to back Vikings in county

St. Paul Mayor Chris Coleman said Thursday he's not yet willing to support a new Minnesota Vikings stadium north of his city in Ramsey County, questioning whether his constituents will benefit in equal measure to the increased taxes they'll pay.

http://goo.gl/tw6Gj

St. Paul mayor not ready to back Vikings in county

St. Paul Mayor Chris Coleman said Thursday he's not yet willing to support a new Minnesota Vikings stadium north of his city in Ramsey County, questioning whether his constituents will benefit in equal measure to the increased taxes they'll pay.

http://goo.gl/tw6Gj

Because they will have the highest sales tax rate in the state. How can you attract new business with the highest tax rate?

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/collections/special/columns/news_cut/archive/2011/05/under_vikings_stadium_plan_sai.shtml

Because they will have the highest sales tax rate in the state. How can you attract new business with the highest tax rate?

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/collections/special/columns/news_cut/archive/2011/05/under_vikings_stadium_plan_sai.shtml
If the business is not retail, the sales tax rate does not affect the business. And businesses survive sales tax increases.

Last week I walked from my hotel to the Target Center then a few yards on to Target Field (which I loved). The surrounding area was full of fans (of both teams) eating and drinking and generally enjoying themselves in a convivial atmosphere.

Had I gone in the other direction, I could have walked to the Metrodome - a little further, but easily done.

This is how sports should be played - in the center of the host city, reachable on foot and by public transport. I sincerely hope Minneapolis can win the team back. Please, not another suburban SUV stadium.

If the business is not retail, the sales tax rate does not affect the business. And businesses survive sales tax increases.

The mayor of St. Paul is currently not in support of the tax increase.

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2011/05/12/coleman-stadium/

"Whether it has a great direct benefit to the city of St. Paul is one of the things I'm going to be asked, or asking," said St. Paul Mayor Chris Coleman, "because quite frankly, a huge chunk of that half-cent sales tax is going to be generated in the city of St. Paul."

Coleman spoke at a rally outside the governor's office decrying cuts to education in St. Paul and Minneapolis.

But he also said he'd prefer a different solution to funding a replacement to the Metrodome for the Vikings.

"I think there are fairer ways to distribute the burden and costs associated with the stadium," he said.

:/

Please, not another suburban SUV stadium.

SUV = Sports Utility Vehicle?

I assume that you wouldn't want another 'boondocks' stadium that fans will have to drive to.

I'd have to agree with you. The New Meadowlands Stadium and Cowboys Stadium are nowhere near anything, and that doesn't make people happy.

SUV = Sports Utility Vehicle?

I assume that you wouldn't want another 'boondocks' stadium that fans will have to drive to.

I'd have to agree with you. The New Meadowlands Stadium and Cowboys Stadium are nowhere near anything, and that doesn't make people happy.

The New Meadowland Stadium was built right nextdoor to the old giants stadium so not really in the middle of nowhere and has for the Cowboys Stadium its build over the road to Texas Rangers baseball stadium. So both NFL Stadiums have the transport network able to help the fans travel to the stadiums.

The New Meadowland Stadium was built right nextdoor to the old giants stadium so not really in the middle of nowhere and has for the Cowboys Stadium its build over the road to Texas Rangers baseball stadium. So both NFL Stadiums have the transport network able to help the fans travel to the stadiums.

Still, the traffic on the roads around both stadiums is :gaah: after games.

Still, the traffic on the roads around both stadiums are :gaah: after games.
And neither one has anything resembling mass transit within miles. The Meadowlands might be the least transit friendly spot in the NYC area.

The mayor of St. Paul is currently not in support of the tax increase.

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2011/05/12/coleman-stadium/
Did Hizzonner happen to mention what those "fairer ways" were?

Did Hizzonner happen to mention what those "fairer ways" were?

I think what he (and others) would like to see is a broader funding plan (ie state-wide or more money from the Vikings). Hennepin County residents still loudly resent the fact that they are shouldering the majority of the financial burden on Target Field. Its hard not to see the similarities between Target Field and this new Vikings proposal. The sad thing is Ramsey County is smaller than Hennepin and a 0.5% sales tax increase is a lot more than Hennepin's 0.15% increase to pay for Target Field.

Everybody tauts the Vikings as a state-asset. So why not shift the burden more state-wide? Makes sense to me. But doesn't play well to out-staters and their legislators.

I think what he (and others) would like to see is a broader funding plan (ie state-wide or more money from the Vikings). Hennepin County residents still loudly resent the fact that they are shouldering the majority of the financial burden on Target Field. Its hard not to see the similarities between Target Field and this new Vikings proposal. The sad thing is Ramsey County is smaller than Hennepin and a 0.5% sales tax increase is a lot more than Hennepin's 0.15% increase to pay for Target Field.

Everybody tauts the Vikings as a state-asset. So why not shift the burden more state-wide? Makes sense to me. But doesn't play well to out-staters and their legislators.
I understand what you are saying. And you phrased it quite well. My real question is why couldn't he say that. I have a low tolerance for politicians who tend to run on "Elect me because I said this was bad," without providing a plan that will work. There are too many of those politicians around right now.

Or, even worse, those who say "Do it this way because it worked in 1790." Too many of them, too.

And neither one has anything resembling mass transit within miles. The Meadowlands might be the least transit friendly spot in the NYC area.

While that was true in the past, the Meadowlands Sports Complex has had direct rail access for nearly two years now:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meadowlands_Rail_Line

I understand what you are saying. And you phrased it quite well. My real question is why couldn't he say that. I have a low tolerance for politicians who tend to run on "Elect me because I said this was bad," without providing a plan that will work. There are too many of those politicians around right now.

Or, even worse, those who say "Do it this way because it worked in 1790." Too many of them, too.

Mayor Coleman offered up the idea of a 1 penny tax on all alcohol drinks sold in the state. According to him that would more than cover the costs of a new stadium. I'd like to see some statistics to back that up. But sounds plausible.

Mayor Coleman offered up the idea of a 1 penny tax on all alcohol drinks sold in the state. According to him that would more than cover the costs of a new stadium. I'd like to see some statistics to back that up. But sounds plausible.
100 billion drinks? The folk in Minnesota must really put it away.

Rather than being glib, let's examine the numbers. The "average American" consumes 4.47 liters of beer, 1.36 liters of wine, and 2.65 liters of spirits per year (all numbers are from Wikipedia, as good a source as any). So if we assume 0.9 liters per beer, 200 ml for wine and 50 ml for spirits, we get five glasses of beer, six glasses of wine and about 56 drinks per year. 67 total drinks per year. Now we assume that Minnesotans are average drinkers, and with 5.4 million of them we get about 362 million drinks per year. At a penny each, they are getting $3.62 million, which will mean 30 years to pay the principal cost, but with interest it will take more than 60.

At this point I think that the idea has merit, but rather than a penny a drink it should be closer to a nickle. And they could build some mass transit at the same time.

While that was true in the past, the Meadowlands Sports Complex has had direct rail access for nearly two years now:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meadowlands_Rail_Line
I had no idea that was there. It just looked like more stadium construction. Thanks for the link.

100 billion drinks? The folk in Minnesota must really put it away.

Rather than being glib, let's examine the numbers. The "average American" consumes 4.47 liters of beer, 1.36 liters of wine, and 2.65 liters of spirits per year (all numbers are from Wikipedia, as good a source as any). So if we assume 0.9 liters per beer, 200 ml for wine and 50 ml for spirits, we get five glasses of beer, six glasses of wine and about 56 drinks per year. 67 total drinks per year. Now we assume that Minnesotans are average drinkers, and with 5.4 million of them we get about 362 million drinks per year. At a penny each, they are getting $3.62 million, which will mean 30 years to pay the principal cost, but with interest it will take more than 60.

At this point I think that the idea has merit, but rather than a penny a drink it should be closer to a nickle. And they could build some mass transit at the same time.

My mistake, Coleman wasn't referring to paying for the entire billion dollar cost, only $250 million. The huge numbers you rattled off made me go back and find his quote.

"...Coleman challenged the assumption in the entire stadium discussion that a host unit of government be called on to pay a major share of the cost. "There are fairer ways to do this," said Coleman, who said he has not been part of stadium discussions.

He suggested a statewide liquor tax. "If you put a penny a drink - not 1 percent, a penny - you could pay debt service on $250 million worth of indebtedness," he said..."

http://www.twincities.com/ci_18053937?IADID


His words, not mine. I wonder what the yearly costs of $250 million of debt over 30 years would be. Maybe he's right.

My mistake, Coleman wasn't referring to paying for the entire billion dollar cost, only $250 million. The huge numbers you rattled off made me go back and find his quote.

"...Coleman challenged the assumption in the entire stadium discussion that a host unit of government be called on to pay a major share of the cost. "There are fairer ways to do this," said Coleman, who said he has not been part of stadium discussions.

He suggested a statewide liquor tax. "If you put a penny a drink - not 1 percent, a penny - you could pay debt service on $250 million worth of indebtedness," he said..."

http://www.twincities.com/ci_18053937?IADID

His words, not mine. I wonder what the yearly costs of $250 million of debt over 30 years would be. Maybe he's right.
I found an online freebie loan calculator. Assuming a loan of $250,000 (it really didn't like the idea of a mortgage of $250 million) over 30 years at four percent, the money required to pay it off would be $1,193.54. Which equates to annual payments of $1,193,540. If you cut the period to 10 years the payment only goes up to $2,531,130. At seven years the payment is $3,417,200.

So the penny would work. But I still like the idea of the nickle per drink. Pay off this stadium and retire all of the debt on the other ones in just a few years. With money left over for things like mass transit and bridges.

^^ Annual payments would be roughly ~$14.4 million a year for 30 years. That calculator looks like it gave you the monthly payments. Scary thing is $14.4 million over 30 years is $432 million. That's a hell of a lot of interest.

Your idea of a nickel a drink sounds better.

Crap. Those are monthly payments. I haven't made a mistake that stupid since first year accounting. Sorry about that.

From Peter King at SI.com yesterday:

"I think there are minefields in place with the proposed Vikings stadium complex 12 miles northeast of downtown in Arden Hills, Minn., but the fact that there's significant traction now tells me there's very little chance the Vikings will follow in the footsteps of the Minneapolis Lakers and trek west to Los Angeles. Something's going to get done in greater Minneapolis for the Vikings -- as it should."

Monday Morning Quarterback (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_king/05/15/mmqb/3.html)

Roger Goodell has said that the NFL will contribute money to the new Vikings stadium after a meeting with Gov. Dayton this morning. Excellent news!

Roger Goodell has said that the NFL will contribute money to the new Vikings stadium after a meeting with Gov. Dayton this morning. Excellent news!

And now won't the 49ers will tell Goodell, "Hey didn't we have all of this in place first with a public vote for the stadium approved yet you said you have had no money since 2007?"

Roger Goodell has said that the NFL will contribute money to the new Vikings stadium after a meeting with Gov. Dayton this morning. Excellent news!

According to this article, Goodell said that any actual monetary contribution is out of the question:

Goodell, calling the Arden Hills land "an extraordinary site," said upfront league financing money no longer exists.

Instead there will be a premium seat waiver:

But the league's longstanding "premium seat waiver" does help in any stadium finance plan.

More on the story and details of the meeting
(http://www.minnpost.com/stories/2011/05/17/28355/nfl_commissioner_roger_goodell_holds_out_possibility_of_league_help_in_addressing_stadium_funding_gap)

nice stadium.!! awsome.!! amazing!!

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visit us

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Indonesiam stadium (http://suasanapekanbaru.blogspot.com/2011/05/stadion-balikpapan.html)

other nice stadium (http://suasanapekanbaru.blogspot.com/2011/05/stadion-utama-pon-2012-pekanbaru-riau.html)
peace world!

According to this article, Goodell said that any actual monetary contribution is out of the question:

Instead there will be a premium seat waiver:

More on the story and details of the meeting
(http://www.minnpost.com/stories/2011/05/17/28355/nfl_commissioner_roger_goodell_holds_out_possibility_of_league_help_in_addressing_stadium_funding_gap)
I've never heard so much doubletalk in my life. Goodell does nothing but spread male cow droppings.

^^ Well his job is basically a political one.

I've never heard so much doubletalk in my life. Goodell does nothing but spread male cow droppings.

Totally agree. But I guess as long as Zygi Wilf can contribute millions more to the construction, then it's still a positive.

Senator wants vote on Vikings stadium

Associated Press

ST. PAUL, Minn. -- A key state senator said Thursday she wants a public vote on a proposed half-cent sales tax to help build a new Minnesota Vikings stadium, a new obstacle as the team tries to push the project to the finish line and plays out the final year of its lease at the Metrodome.

"It's important for the voters to have their say," said Senate Majority Leader Amy Koch, a Republican from Buffalo, Minn. She said she has supported referendums on sales tax increases in her own legislative district and wants to be consistent.

Koch said she considers the Vikings a key state asset and sees the benefits to Ramsey County of being home to a stadium -- "but I just think a referendum is in order," she said.
A referendum likely could not be held until November 2012 -- long after the Vikings' lease at the Metrodome expires.

As the top-ranked Republican in a Senate controlled by that party, Koch's pronouncement could hold considerable sway over a crop of conservative freshman new to stadium politics at the Capitol. Stadium supporters have predicted that Ramsey County voters would kill the sales tax proposal and scrap the entire stadium project.

More: http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nfl/story/_/id/6916704/public-vote-minnesota-vikings-stadium-senator-amy-koch-says

I fail to see why these stadium suggestions are costing so much.

Arsenal FC were able to build a 60,000 seat stadium in one of the most exclusive parts of one of the most expensive cities in the world for under $500m.

Ellerbe Becket, HKS, HNTB, Populus .... maybe we need to consider other firms such as ArupSport (Beijing Olympic Stadium, Nou Mestalla), Gerkan Marg und Partner (Cape Town stadium, Moses Mabhiba Stadium, Commerzbank Arena) or Herzog & de Meuron (Allianz Arena)

The Nou Mestalla - €300m - 75,000
Cape Town Stadium - $600m - 68,500 (incl clearing of toxic ground)
Allianz Arena - €340m - 66,000
Mabhiba Stadium - $450m - 69,000

All are open air BUT have European style roofs covering the majority of the fans.

My favourite would be an enlarged Commerzbank Arena €150m - 48,500

At the moment, a two tier structure, a third tier could result in a 72,000 seat stadium. It has been used for both football and gridiron and has the roof that the BC Place stadium has now been renovated with - a material fabric designed packed into and drawn out of a centrally placed four sided scoreboard. It has a significant number of exective boxes and club seats but the stadium footprint wouldn't be larger than the Metrodome.

The stadium roof could be opened during season, closed during the week if the surface is natural grass to protect the surface, and to use for other events.

Using an existing design which is easily expandable could make the cost of the stadium somewhere between $550m - $650m

Part of it may be labor costs, part of it is the way we build retractable roofs, its probably going to be around $200 million for the roof alone. Keep in mind the snow loads we get here get be pretty intense on structures at teams. When the Metrodome's roof collapsed engineers estimated it had more than five million pounds of snow on it and if a steel trussed roof failed it would be far worse than a cable net roof inverting.

Also I totally a agree on rehabbing the Metrodome, I would think $500 million could get them just as much stadium if they removed the retractable seating and replaced it with club seats, suites and new team areas. Then add cantilevered third decks along the sidelines, move the press box up underneath the new third tier, pull out all of the concessions/restrooms and move new ones outward 20 feet and redo the facade then drop a retractable roof on top. With the numbers and sketches I did a couple years ago it seemed like 72,000 seats with 140 suites, 7,000 club seats, 40' concourses and twice the number of restrooms would be doable within the existing site. The only drawback would be the legroom in the existing seating bowl is kind of crappy, but it would be a great facility other than that.

And if you think we in Minnesota are overpaying look at how little New York got for $1.6 billion, or what San Fransisco has proposed for $1 billion.

Keep in mind the snow loads we get here get be pretty intense on structures at teams. When the Metrodome's roof collapsed engineers estimated it had more than five million pounds of snow on it and if a steel trussed roof failed it would be far worse than a cable net roof inverting.


Another alternative would be a variation of the new 50,000 seater being built in Solna, Stockhlom for €250m.

This is a retractable roof stadium, but has been designed to have 3metres of slow on it, before any challenges. I think Sweden probably gets as much snow as Minnesota

Some new renderings of a stadium built on the Farmer's Market site obtained by KSTP news.
http://kstp.com/article/stories/s2358401.shtml?cat=12157

"The design was put together by a group of downtown business leaders and landowners and is now being presented to politicians at the state, county and city levels."

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/2965/11476579.jpg

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/1417/82831948.jpg

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/1498/91761048.jpg

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7480/14407095.jpg

^^ Ah, so their proposal is pretty much a copy of Lucas Oil Stadium, but with different coloured seats.

Great Design! I love the fact that they're keeping it downtown and close to the Metro-Rail.

^^ Ah, so their proposal is pretty much a copy of Lucas Oil Stadium, but with different coloured seats.

Not even 'pretty much'. It looks like they just took a model of Lucas Oil and hung a vikings logo from it. Are they actually planning that, or did they just use the model as a place holder?

Good gravy! That really is a blatant copy. My friend's little daughter could do that on her paint program. I keep telling him to get her out of second grade, and start getting her some graphics contracts, but her mom won't go for it ...

Not even 'pretty much'. It looks like they just took a model of Lucas Oil and hung a vikings logo from it. Are they actually planning that, or did they just use the model as a place holder?

I would imagine it's just a place holder. If this was something put together by downtown business owners, they probably trying to emphasize the area around a new stadium and just picked a good looking retractable roof stadium, which is what had been previously proposed. I don't know they didn't use one of the previous actual Viking stadium proposals though.

Good gravy! That really is a blatant copy. My friend's little daughter could do that on her paint program. I keep telling him to get her out of second grade, and start getting her some graphics contracts, but her mom won't go for it ...
:lol: it's a placeholder dawg...

A new rendering from the Vikings of the proposed stadium design for Arden Hills.

http://minnescraper.com/forums/download/file.php?id=2692

Wilf Renews Push for Arden Hills (http://www.startribune.com/local/133703768.html#)

edit, another render,

http://assets.bizjournals.com/twincities/blog/sports-business/Vikings.Tailgating.Rendering.jpg?v=1

I thought I'd transfer from the Los Angeles forum the following Peter King quote:

Peter King reported on NBC's "Football Night in America" Sunday that it’s no longer a question of "if" but "when" the team officially commits to staying in the state, according to ProFootballTalk.com.

"Look for the Vikings to sign a long-term deal and build a new stadium in Minnesota so that they will not be a candidate to move to Los Angeles," King said. "Everybody had been rumoring that they were going to L.A. The Vikings are going to stay in Minneapolis."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8256ab7d/article/vikings-reportedly-close-to-deal-to-stay-in-minnesota

However, yesterday State Representative Morrie Lanning of Moorhead told Vikings fans to curb their newfound enthusiasm about news of an agreement for a new stadium. Lanning states that there is nothing new to report on the stadium proposal.

“He (King) did not talk with me, and as far as I know there is nothing new to report,” said Lanning about King’s report that was televised Sunday evening. “My understanding is that he talked with one or two people either from the Vikings or the NFL and put the most positive spin on whatever he heard from those people.”

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/345274/group/Sports/

Comments, anyone?

According to my wife's family in Anoka it's most likely more posturing. The hope is that as things stabilize with the local economy the powers that be will come to this agreement in 2012, so the Vikings camp is making some noise so as to build public enthusiasm for a done deal. The fans want the team to stay, fo course. Desperately so. But they're a pretty pragmatic lot and don't want to be bilked at the trough, as well.

I'd say if the team and the general fans come to a consensus about the popular appeal of a particular site, then things will pick up steam.

I think an easy solution for the funding gap is expanded gambling. If the state approved an expansion then that could eliminate a big obstacle for a new stadium.

The new senate majority leader in MN is apparently pro-gambling, unlike his now disgraced predecessor. So things might be looking up.

The Vikings' lease on the Metrodome has just officially ended.

My prediction is that the team will renew their lease on the Dome on a short-term basis. In the meantime, all the stadium wrangling will eventually be resolved.

Comments?

Agree with the short-term deal, otherwise it is what it is.

I find it so disconcerting that NFL owners and their host communities must ever be at such odds with one another. A shame Cities and States can't be more forthright in restricting how much funding they provide to third-party sports venues (or any corporate investment, for that matter).

This was also the aspect of the recent NFL labor deal that chapped my hide. They bickered about how to divvy up the expanded revenue and at the same time killed the NFL's reserve fund to help pay for stadia. Just mind numbing.

Really nice work. And parking? Don't see any parking, almost enough for the stadium capacity.

To sum things up...

Farmer's Market proposal:


http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/2965/11476579.jpg


Arden Hills proposal:


http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/6382/vikingsardenhills01.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/823/vikingsardenhills01.jpg/)



Metrodome site proposal:


http://i51.tinypic.com/2a8lz40.jpg

I can't find a render for the Linden Ave proposal.

Vikings' Zygi Wilf: Stadium deal 'to be in the works shortly'

Minnesota Vikings owner Zygi Wilf met today with new state Senate majority leader David Senjem and was encouraged stadium negotiations were gaining momentum toward an agreement that would help fund a new facility for the team.

In the Twin Cities to announce the team's promotion of Rick Spielman to general manager, the New Jersey developer also spent time with Sen. Julie Rosen, the Fairmont Republican leading that chamber's efforts to draft a stadium bill.

"Our goal is to make sure that we have a viable plan and we're working as we speak on a deal," Wilf said. "We're working with (Gov. Mark Dayton). Certainly, he's been an advocate of getting this done. This morning we met with Sen. Senjem, now the majority leader, and Sen. Rosen. And they're very encouraged on the progress we're making. And we feel that a deal is going to be in the works shortly."

A bipartisan committee is working to assemble a bill with hopes of resolving an issue that has vexed the state for more than a decade. The Legislature convenes Jan. 24.

The Vikings contend they played their last game at the Metrodome Sunday under their original lease, which expires Feb. 1 and would leave them as the only NFL team without a 2012 stadium agreement. The club said it would not sign an extension without new stadium legislation.

The San Diego Chargers can buy out of their lease at Qualcomm Stadium for $23 million. Minnesota and San Diego are the leading candidates to relocate to Los Angeles, where competing developers want to build a stadium to lure an existing team to the country's second-largest city.

The Vikings have pledged $420 million to a proposed stadium in Arden Hills, with Ramsey County responsible for $350 million and the state $300 million. The club says three Minneapolis proposals lack specifics and are unwilling to commit financially to the city. Still, Wilf and his brother Mark, the team president, said today they are working to keep the team in Minnesota.

Looming is the Feb. 15 deadline for a team to notify the NFL it intends to relocate in 2012. Wilf demurred when asked whether it was imperative for an agreement to be reached early in the legislative session or if he was willing to negotiate through the spring.

"We want to make sure as many as the people we've met at the Legislature, the governor, the fans, know we want to establish a home that will ensure this franchise for generations to come," Wilf said.

"A home that we can be proud of, a home we can enjoy with our families and also to keep on the traditions of Minnesota Vikings football - they go hand in hand. So I think the pride that we bring to the team will carry over towards our commitment to making sure that we ensure a new home for the Minnesota Vikings in Minnesota."


http://www.twincities.com/ci_19667065

To sum things up...

Farmer's Market proposal:



Arden Hills proposal:




Metrodome site proposal:



I can't find a render for the Linden Ave proposal.

That first one is Lucas Oil Stadium.

That first one is Lucas Oil Stadium.

Yes, they just used it as a place holder to demonstrate how much room a stadium would take up. It is in no way the finaly design.

Momentum seems to be in favor of a Minneapolis site:

http://www.startribune.com/politics/statelocal/136884318.html

http://www.startribune.com/politics/136637213.html

http://www.startribune.com/local/136765923.html

I like the look of the Metro Dome proposal.

If they decide to renovate the Metrodome, I hope the roof will be as high as the one on the Georgia Dome.

Momentum seems to be in favor of a Minneapolis site:

http://www.startribune.com/politics/statelocal/136884318.html

http://www.startribune.com/politics/136637213.html

http://www.startribune.com/local/136765923.html


Do you think they can take what they did at BC Place stadium in Vancouver and apply that to the Metrodome. It was essintially out of commission for a season and a half, where they could potentially use TCF Bank Stadium as a temp home.

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/1926/p1000004p.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/14/p1000004p.jpg/)
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6077/6142528845_05ee2870a7_b.jpg
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=628317

that has been ruled out by the Vikings, though I think it could be effectively renovated. There are some odd alleged contractual reasons why the team ownership is so opposed, and there would still be some fan comfort issues if the existing seating bowl were to be kept largely intact. Though a new stadium on the Metrodome site is still a real possibility (and seems to be the most sensible place for a stadium in the Twin Cities).

The total cost on this was listed at about $550M cdn
This is what was done, might be a bit more as there are more seats and luxury suite in the Metrodome

BC Place renovations summary

New retractable roof is the largest cable supported retractable roof in the world.[26] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BC_Place#cite_note-level4-25)[27] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BC_Place#cite_note-26)
Revolving doors replaced with clear glass doors, which allows the stadium to be accessed much more easily.[28] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BC_Place#cite_note-entrance-27)
Old brown glass around building replaced with light green glass which lets more light in and makes stadium environment brighter.[28] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BC_Place#cite_note-entrance-27)
BC Lions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BC_Lions) locker room completely expanded and refurbished: Old lockers were taken out, sanded down, refinished and put back in. New cubicles were also put in with individual lighting for players. Locker room also sports a new floor called sport floor.[28] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BC_Place#cite_note-entrance-27)
New field turf, called Bind-pro, was added to playing surface. Turf has a 1+5⁄8 inches (41 mm) thick shock pad underneath it and it has a GMAC rating higher than natural grass.[29] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BC_Place#cite_note-turf-28)
A centre-hung high-definition scoreboard measuring 68 by 38 feet (21 × 12 m).[29] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BC_Place#cite_note-turf-28)
Around the stadium is a new 51 inch electronic ribbon board, with a circumference of 2200 ft.[26] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BC_Place#cite_note-level4-25)
Added eleven hundred and forty new HDTV screens. Screens work thru a system called Stadium Vision. Each screen runs on a separate video source, allowing menu boards at concourse concession stands to show game updates to fans as they order from concession stands.[30] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BC_Place#cite_note-bclions1-29)
All concourses widened and refurbished.[28] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BC_Place#cite_note-entrance-27)
Added 140 additional portable concession stands. Storage of food and supplies will be in concession stands.[30] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BC_Place#cite_note-bclions1-29)
50 fully refurbished private suites and 1,300 newly refurbished premium Club Seats.[31] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BC_Place#cite_note-30)[32] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BC_Place#cite_note-31)[33] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BC_Place#cite_note-32)
Wheel chair seating now at every price point and level of the stadium.[26] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BC_Place#cite_note-level4-25)
New upgraded washrooms, and access ramps with new lighting.[34] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BC_Place#cite_note-33)
New state of the art sound system.[26] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BC_Place#cite_note-level4-25)
New wider seats: seats or 20 inches (51 cm) wide with cup holders on every seat.[26] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BC_Place#cite_note-level4-25)
New sport lighting in stadium; 10% of lighting is called hot strip lighting. Hot strip lighting gives instant on and off.[26] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BC_Place#cite_note-level4-25)

The Vikings just want a brand new stadium and all that comes with it....

Larger concourses
More/Larger VIP suites
Better seating in the stands
That new car small
Super Bowl attractiveness
Pride in a new facility

It's that simple. Metrodome won't do anymore.

don't they need more capacity? I think of the Vikings as one of the larger and more rabid fanbases in the NFL. They need more seats and more/larger suites.

While the Vikes could fill a larger venue when times are flush or for games with their rivals, most NFL franchises would prefer a right-sized venue that ensures more/all sell-outs and premium ticket prices. Better to be 65k filled for every game than to avg 70k in and 80k venue.

For this same reason we'll continue to see more stadia designed with temporary expansions available, like we have in Dallas, JAX, and Arizona.

I'm liking all of the ideas. Can't wait to see what they'll choose.

While the Vikes could fill a larger venue when times are flush or for games with their rivals, most NFL franchises would prefer a right-sized venue that ensures more/all sell-outs and premium ticket prices. Better to be 65k filled for every game than to avg 70k in and 80k venue.

For this same reason we'll continue to see more stadia designed with temporary expansions available, like we have in Dallas, JAX, and Arizona.

If there is suite demand, there is club demand. They need to expand, which is why I imagine the 72,000 number is being thrown around.

VVVVVVIIIIIIIIIIKKKKKKKKKKIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS




IIIIII AAAMMM AAA BIIIGGG FFFAAANN OOOOFFFFFFFFFF VVVVVVVIIIIIKKKKKKKIIIIIINNNNNNGGGGGGGGGSSSS

^^Thank you for your valuable input...

Well, the final deadline for all Viking Stadium proposals was this past Thursday.

In fact, the Mpls suburb of Shakopee recently made a last-minute sales pitch:

http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_19719015

This proposed site is even farther away from the Metrodome than Arden Hills. However, at $920 mil, it's the least expensive out of all the site proposals.

Too far and how people travel lose petrol

The Twin Cities have a fickle fan base and when the team is bad there are sellout problems which lead to blackouts. Numerous times in the last decade there have been problems selling enough tickets and a local company or TV/Radio station steps up at the last second and buys the supply up in order to keep the game on local TV.

NFL Blackout rules are stupid. need to do away with them. Not good to hold a fan base ransom if they dont want to go to the game.

NFL Blackout rules are stupid. need to do away with them. Not good to hold a fan base ransom if they dont want to go to the game.

If they don't want to go to the game why should they be able to watch the game on telly?

If they don't want to go to the game why should they be able to watch the game on telly?

NFL tickets are expensive.

Yeah thats true I was shocked at having to pay £85 for a NFL ticket at Wembley Stadium in 2010

If they don't want to go to the game why should they be able to watch the game on telly?

because the NFL has a huge TV contract. The networks want people to actually see the game, while the league/owners are trying to sell out their games. The blackout rules were a compromise to try to fill up stadiums. Some owners don't care, but those trying to make serious money out of their ownership certainly want that rule in place.

http://targetcenterrenovation.org/

http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/645723/gallery_image_2.jpg


Not sure if this has been posted yet. There has been some movement to renovate the Target Center in conjunction with Mpls stadium funding.

...and also some talk of renovating the nearby Minneapolis Armory in to a Vikings gameday center if the Metrodome site wins out.

The Armory is the former home of the Minneapolis Lakers currently serving as indoor parking:

http://apps.startribune.com/blogs/user_images/mjmckinney_1323380758_ArmoryVikings.JPG

That would be awsome, IMO the Metrodome site is the ideal spot, especially if they refitted the armory and turned the Star tribune site into a proper urban central park, Then develop good mixed use along the edges up towards government plaza, that would really get the east side of downtown into good shape and not just a sea of parking with the odd building. Linden hills looks pretty solid as well, but I think they really did get the stadium spot right in the '70s

^^If the Metrodome site is the perfect spot, would there be a financial risk when the Vikings have to play their home games at TCF Bank Stadium during the construction period?

I never said perfect, I said ideal, the best option there is not a perfect one. Yes they would have to lose a little money for two seasons but would be much better off for the next 30. And if they were to add in temporary seating at TCF, which would almost certainly happen, they could maintain capacity and really just be short on suites for two years.

Also getting a stadium built adjacent to the oldest Basilica in the country where the Catholic church absolutely has some political sway won't be easy and will almost certainly alter the design from what teams ideal is. The Linden avenue site also lacks the potential to create a truly grand urban gesture within downtown proper which could make the nearby property massively appealing. On top of that the infrastructure and utilities are already in place on the Metrodome site but would need improvement for either the Linden Ave or Farmers Market sites.

Well unless the Catholic church and the Basilica decides to pay some taxes I'd say their input should be mute. They seem to have money to send out thousands of hate filled dvds.

They sure do have some change for bigoted dvds, but they still have some clout like it or not. And no matter what your views on religion the Basilica is something of a masterpiece that will be quite difficult to relate to with a stadium substantially larger than it.

According to following article, any approval of a new stadium might have to wait until next year.

http://minnesota.sbnation.com/minnesota-vikings/2012/1/21/2724231/vikings-stadium-update-delay-mark-dayton-linden-avenue

At the same time, the people at St. Mary's Basilica refuses to allow the new stadium to be built on Linden Ave.

http://www.startribune.com/lifestyle/137829808.html

They sure do have some change for bigoted dvds, but they still have some clout like it or not. And no matter what your views on religion the Basilica is something of a masterpiece that will be quite difficult to relate to with a stadium substantially larger than it.

Perhaps they can enclose the Basilica in the stadium? Enshrine it.

Regardless of one's opinion of the Catholic church the Basilica is an architectual treasure.

Apparently, Governor Dayton wants the new stadium to be built on the current Metrodome site. However, the Vikings are still pushing for Arden Hills.


Vikings stadium: Wilf 'optimistic' on Dome site, but Arden Hills isn't out of the running

Minnesota Vikings owner Zygi Wilf said Wednesday that he is optimistic a new stadium could work at the Metrodome site but he doesn't consider the Arden Hills plan dead.

Emerging from a three-hour meeting with Minnesota Gov. Mark Dayton, Wilf was asked whether he would accept the Dome location if it were the only option. His response: "We're doing our due diligence right now."

As for the $1.1 billion proposal on 430 acres in the northern suburbs, which has long been the team's preferred option, Wilf said:

"Arden Hills is not out of the picture. We would still like to explore, but we would leave it up to the legislative working group to decide where they would want us to work hardest at."

One of the two leaders of that working group, state Sen. Julie Rosen, R-Fairmont, said its members are scheduled to meet today.

"We are not ready to commit to a single site," Rosen said, "but it is happening, and we're moving forward, and we're going to have a bill as soon as the negotiations continue."

She said the food and beverage tax proposed by Ramsey County leaders to finance the local share of the cost of the Arden Hills project "is not going to work."

But she left a small window of opportunity for county officials.

"If they can come back to us with another proposal to keep this alive by the end of the week, then we'll take another look at it," Rosen said. "But at this point, it's not doable as far as I'm concerned."

Team officials have said they'll
put up $425 million for the Arden Hills project but have not specified their contribution to a Minneapolis stadium.

As for the state contribution, Rosen said it's likely to involve gambling revenue.

The two leading contenders to produce that revenue are slot machines at horse tracks - so-called racinos - and electronic pulltabs.

Rosen said her preference was pulltabs.

Dayton has said he wants to pay the entire state portion of a stadium's costs with revenue from electronic pulltabs.

Authorizing an electronic version of the game now played on paper in bars and restaurants could generate $60 million in tax revenue for the state per year, roughly half of which would be used to finance the state contribution of $340 million for the Dome site, Dayton has said.

Politically, pulltabs would allow lawmakers to claim new gambling revenue without running afoul of American Indian tribes, which oppose racinos and other stadium-related gambling proposals.

Metropolitan Sports Facilities Commission Chairman Ted Mondale said the state could expect a 30-year net return of $198 million with the Dome project through tax collections over and above what the state puts in.

Wilf and his brother Mark attended the private meeting at the governor's Capitol office Wednesday along with Mondale, Minneapolis Mayor R.T. Rybak, other city officials and key lawmakers.

Several participants stressed the importance of having all the key players in the same room.

Dayton's goal for the meeting was to get the parties to agree in principle to build a stadium on the Dome site.

He has concluded it is the only option with a chance to pass the Legislature this year.

"I think we made excellent progress today," Dayton said.

But he said it was clear the group would not be able to answer all stadium-related questions Wednesday.

Dayton said the group planned to meet again next week. In the meantime, he said, lawmakers will move ahead with their process while Minneapolis, the Vikings and the Metropolitan Sports Facilities Commission will work "full time, all the time, round the clock until we get this nailed down, and then we'll bring the principals back together again with the goal of getting it resolved if it's resolvable."

Wilf acknowledged some frustration with the process.

"There's always going to be a level of frustration when you're dealing with the political world as a business person, so we'll just have to take it as it goes along and making sure that we reach our ultimate goal and getting a stadium done," he said. "We're very excited that we're getting closer. A lot of hard work's ahead of us, but we feel optimistic and confident that we'll get something done."

State Rep. Morrie Lanning, R-Moorhead, the chief lawmaker on stadium issues in the House, said after the meeting that among the issues Minneapolis leaders need to address is getting an indication from the city council about what it will support.

The stadium is on the agenda of today's Minneapolis City Council meeting, and Lanning said he hopes something emerges "that we can hang our hat on."

At the meeting, Rybak and council President Barbara Johnson were expected to update the council's committee of the whole on the stadium talks and the city's proposal.

John Stiles, the mayor's spokesman, said it was difficult to gauge the council's support because there was much about the plan that still needed to be worked out with the Vikings and the Legislature.

"The important thing to note is, does the council support it or not support it, and the question is, 'Support what?' Right now, nobody knows that," Stiles said. "It's a completely hypothetical question."

Lawmakers also want to be assured the logistical issues and additional costs involved with the team playing temporarily at the University of Minnesota's TCF Bank Stadium while the Dome site construction is done can be worked out, Lanning said.

The team and city also are trying to resolve various parking and site-related issues, he said.

Another concern with the Minneapolis plan is how to handle a charter amendment that caps the city's contribution to a sports stadium at $10 million without a voter referendum.

Rybak said money to renovate Target Center, which is part of the Dome renovation proposal, will need to stay in the package in order to secure support from the city council.

"There's not going to be an easy vote on this" at the city council or the Legislature, Rybak said, but "I think it's a doable deal."

Lanning said he understood Rybak's position but that including Target Center will likely cost stadium backers some votes in the Legislature.

"That's one of the things we have to weigh," Lanning said. "That's why this is so difficult to put this together...this is just another example of the kind of juggling we have to do in order to get this resolved."

The Dome rebuild is estimated to cost $918 million.

Minneapolis leaders have proposed contributing $313 million to the project. They plan to redirect taxes that support the convention center to the tune of $6.5 million per year to start, plus $150 million for capital costs on the facility.

Another proposed site in Minneapolis, near the Basilica of St. Mary, has been in the running at a cost of $995 million, but Dayton essentially ruled it out this week, in part because of objections from Basilica officials.

Meanwhile, Ramsey County officials who had backed Arden Hills as a stadium site say Minneapolis has a long way to go to prove its plan can work and win approval.

County Commissioner Tony Bennett equated Minneapolis' plan to extend taxes supporting its convention center to help pay for the stadium to a tax increase.

"They say it isn't a new tax if you extend the tax 30 years. Well, it's kind of like saying a fee isn't a tax," he said. "The Legislature is going to have to vote to extend it, and to me, that's an increase in taxes."

Meanwhile, Ramsey County will work to fine-tune its Arden Hills proposal, though he cautioned there will not likely be any big changes this week.

http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_19818081

What's stopping the Vikings from playing at TCF Stadium for a few years while the Metrodome gets renovated?

What's stopping the Vikings from playing at TCF Stadium for a few years while the Metrodome gets renovated?

.... well, it's been done before with Seattle and Chicago this past decade.

So it's not like it CAN'T be done.

That's what I'm saying. They can't just renovate the Metrodome?

^It's a revenue issue for the Vikings. Nothing else. Not as many seats to sell.

It just keeps getting more and more interesting....

Now it seems that the Vikings are looking into building the new stadium east of the Metrodome. This new proposal calls for the new stadium to be built on the parking lot next to the Dome, with 11th Avenue running underneath it.:nuts:

Latest Vikings stadium proposal: Build on Metrodome parking lot

St. Paul, Minn. — Engineers, finance experts and stadium negotiators are trying to figure out if they can fit almost two stadiums where the Metrodome now stands.

Planners are sketching out the details for yet another site for a downtown Minneapolis Vikings stadium. The proposal would put the new stadium in the Metrodome parking lot and could mean the Vikings would have to play few, if any, games at the University of Minnesota's TCF Bank stadium.

The plan could allow the Vikings to play in the existing facility while a new one is under construction right outside, possibly taking over the street between the Metrodome and Interstate 35W.

The Metropolitan Sports Facilities Commission is leading the study of the newest option -- now the fifth potential configuration of a downtown stadium, said commission chairman Ted Mondale.

"What we're looking at now is pushing back over 11th Avenue, further back, so that we would have two-thirds, three-fourths of the stadium done before you take the Dome down," Mondale said.

It's a variation on a previous plan, which would have spilled over onto an adjacent property. That could have involved condemning and relocating a major telecommunications hub, just east of the Metrodome.

The new plan saves that building and is more affordable, Mondale said.

"You know, we're looking to see if there's a way that we wouldn't have to go to TCF Bank field, for the team, or a limited amount of time, which would allow us to put capital time and effort that would go into TCF Bank Stadium into the future home of the Vikings, which we all think makes a lot of sense," he said.

The proposal could have the team in a new facility by 2016, with only a handful of home games out of downtown.

But this latest Metrodome plan still has problems.

It may mean a major change in the connection between downtown with the University of Minnesota's West Bank. Fourth Street would have to be reconfigured where it runs just north of the Metrodome. From there, it heads below grade and heads east under the Hiawatha light rail tracks and 35W.

That road work is a key unknown, Mondale said.

"It seems to show promise, but until you get the engineers saying we're going to do this and it's going to cost this, and here's how it would work and this is the time frame... The question is, 'How much would this cost?'" he said. "If its $120 million more, it doesn't work."

The Vikings themselves could also be a road block. The team already has a handshake deal to build a new stadium in Arden Hills, but Gov. Mark Dayton ruled out that site last month, as well as two others along Interstate 94 on the western edge of downtown. Dayton said they're not feasible in the current legislature.

The team has agreed to look at other options, but said team owners aren't convinced this latest plan is affordable.

Team vice president Lester Bagley said they're concerned with the electrical substation just north of the 5th Street freeway entrance. It would potentially have to be moved or buried underground to make room for the new stadium.

City and stadium consultants think it's doable, Bagley said.

"They're optimistic about it," he said. "We're looking at it and our real estate people are not quite there yet."

Keeping the team downtown could avoid nearly $50 million in extra team costs to relocate NFL games to the University, Bagley said.

"It would either limit or eliminate our seasons at TCF Bank Stadium, and there's some major challenges there," he said. "They're still working on that. I don't think there's an answer yet."

The entire deal is also contingent on approval by lawmakers.

The state is expected to put up nearly one-third of the money for a new field, and stadium bill sponsor Rep. Morrie Lanning, R-Moorhead, says it's very late in the game to be making big changes in stadium sites.

"We're getting down to the wire now, and if we don't hear something in the next couple of weeks, it's going to be very difficult to get this whole thing processed yet this legislative session," he said.

The Sports Facilities Commission and other planners hope to release details on the latest plan by Tuesday.

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2012/02/06/new-vikings-stadium-plan-downtown/

It just keeps getting more and more interesting....

Now it seems that the Vikings are looking into building the new stadium east of the Metrodome. This new proposal calls for the new stadium to be built on the parking lot next to the Dome, with 11th Avenue running underneath it.:nuts:




There is a 17 foot grade change from the Metrodome plaza to 11th avenue, so it shouldn't be too awkward from an engineering standpoint, keep in mind that highways pass under the edge of target field and the associated parking ramps. Passing over the substation is as big of a design challenge as any, though with some clever engineering it should be doable (that portion is gonna look funny if this gets built though).
The really smart thing about this scheme is that once the new structure is up and the Dome is torn down then the current lower seating bowl can be converted into a large below grade parking structure with a sizable park/plaza at street level, something downtown east is lacking. This is conceptually the smartest plan I've seen yet for a new Vikings stadium in terms of urban relationships and potential benefit to the city. It will be interesting to see what visuals come forth from AECOM in the coming weeks.

Just to update everyone...

1) Governor Dayton dislikes the Arden Hills proposal

2) The Linden Ave proposal has been rejected by the Basilica

3) Rebuilding the Dome is a no-go

4) No one cares for the Farmers Market and Shakopee proposals

Why is demolishing and building new place on former Dome site no go? Sounds like a good plan to me.

Just to update everyone...

1) Governor Dayton dislikes the Arden Hills proposal

2) The Linden Ave proposal has been rejected by the Basilica

3) Rebuilding the Dome is a no-go

4) No one cares for the Farmers Market and Shakopee proposals


Great news all around!
:tongue:

Just to update everyone...

1) Governor Dayton dislikes the Arden Hills proposal

2) The Linden Ave proposal has been rejected by the Basilica

3) Rebuilding the Dome is a no-go

4) No one cares for the Farmers Market and Shakopee proposals

So what does that leave us with?

Why is demolishing and building new place on former Dome site no go? Sounds like a good plan to me.

That would require a season or two of playing at TCF Bank Stadium which wouldn't generate as much revenue as playing at the Metrodome until the bitter end. Due to the NFL's revenue sharing system, that not only "hurts" the vikings, but every other team in the league.

So what does that leave us with?

As of right now, officials in Minneapolis are seriously thinking about building the new stadium on the parking lot right next to the Dome. However, that will only possible IF the neighboring Xcel Energy substation and a few of the other neighboring businesses are relocated.:ohno:

In addition, officials in Duluth, MN have also recently submitted a proposal to build the new stadium in their city, which is situated near the Canadian border. Their rationale is that if building an NFL stadium in Green Bay worked for Wisconsin, then it could certainly work for Minnesota.:lol:

As of right now, officials in Minneapolis are seriously thinking about building the new stadium on the parking lot right next to the Dome. However, that will only possible IF the neighboring Xcel Energy substation and a few of the other neighboring businesses are relocated.:ohno:

In addition, officials in Duluth, MN have also recently submitted a proposal to build the new stadium in their city, which is situated near the Canadian border. Their rationale is that if building an NFL stadium in Green Bay worked for Wisconsin, then it could certainly work for Minnesota.:lol:

Duluth is a good joke, but they can't seriously think they'd every get a team that far from the majority of the fanbase.

The adjacent to the Metrodome site may not require the Xcel substation to move, though part of the stadium (or atleast the plaza around it) would have to pass over it. The biggest reason for not pushing the stadium site all the way back towards the freeway is that the buildings on that edge contain the main internet hub for the city of Minneapolis, which would be at least as big of an undertaking to move as the substation.

The other idea being tossed around by Aecom is to build 3/4s of a new stadium directly adjacent to the Metrodome with one sideline overlapping the existing structure that would be built following the demolition of the dome (sort of like in St Louis with Busch stadiums II and III). This would mean the team would only have to move to TCF for one season while that final part of the stadium is constructed. I don't know if it would be entirely palatable to the Vikings, but it seems to make sense for everyone involved (especially the city).

So, the impression I'm getting is that everybody wants a new stadium but nobody wants it built anywhere.

Most people in Minneapolis would like a new stadium where the Metrodome is, so would the Mayor and the Governor; the Vikings would like a new stadium and the development rights to a few thousand acres in Arden Hills, most fans would be fine with the Farmers Market site, the Metrodome or Arden Hills. The real point is no one wants to pay for it.

The adjacent to the Metrodome site may not require the Xcel substation to move, though part of the stadium (or atleast the plaza around it) would have to pass over it. The biggest reason for not pushing the stadium site all the way back towards the freeway is that the buildings on that edge contain the main internet hub for the city of Minneapolis, which would be at least as big of an undertaking to move as the substation.


How can part of a stadium be built over an electric substation? I've never seen it done.

Most people in Minneapolis would like a new stadium where the Metrodome is, so would the Mayor and the Governor; the Vikings would like a new stadium and the development rights to a few thousand acres in Arden Hills, most fans would be fine with the Farmers Market site, the Metrodome or Arden Hills. The real point is no one wants to pay for it.

Arden Hills just can't come up with a financing plan.

I don't know what has become of the Farmers Market site and the Shakopee site. I guess it would be too much of a hassle to add on to the "entertainment district" that already has the Target Center and Target Field.

And I assume that the Shakopee site has been nixed because the city entered the running too late.

How can part of a stadium be built over an electric substation? I've never seen it done.



Arden Hills just can't come up with a financing plan.

I don't know what has become of the Farmers Market site and the Shakopee site. I guess it would be too much of a hassle to add on to the "entertainment district" that already has the Target Center and Target Field.

And I assume that the Shakopee site has been nixed because the city entered the running too late.

Just like its sounds, the stadium concourse/plaza would pass over part of the substation, there is a 17' grad change across the site and if the concourse were further raised another 15'-20' along that sideline, thats within ths rise required for the typical lower teir of an NFL stadium. As long as there is enough space above to service everything in the substation then its apperently a none issue.The only catch in terms of space planing is a somewhat limited field level however most venues have left over space at field level anyway.

^^I was wondering about something.

Are there any chances that the new stadium will be an open-air one?

It would be nice if the new stadium were roofless, so that it could match up to Lambeau Field.

But if the new stadium needs to have a roof, I hope its dome will be as high as the Georgia Dome.:)

What's stopping the Vikings from playing at TCF Stadium for a few years while the Metrodome gets renovated?


There are major cost in upgrading TCF for winter football. Not to mention traffic and parking concerns.

So, the impression I'm getting is that everybody wants a new stadium but nobody wants it built anywhere.Verily. Due to everyone's inability to see a compromise this has become the US version of the new White Hart Lane!

I love it when the team owners and leagues whine about temporary revenue losses when needing to play elsewhere while their new palaces are being constructed. If you don't have any other options then take the hit and move forward. In the meantime, while moaning and complaining and delaying the inevitable you're simply raising construction costs and delaying further the date for when you'll begin realizing the new, greater revenue stream.

But not for hubris the Vikes could've already been done with a season or two at TCF Bank and be staring a rebuilt Metrodome in the face come next fall. Instead pro sports owners are like teenagers, who think they're immortal, all-knowing and all deserving. Collectively they're a bunch of nimrods in this behavior.

^^I was wondering about something.

Are there any chances that the new stadium will be an open-air one?

It would be nice if the new stadium were roofless, so that it could match up to Lambeau Field.

But if the new stadium needs to have a roof, I hope its dome will be as high as the Georgia Dome.:)


The Vikings were actually making some noise about an open air venue i the last couple years, but it would seem to have been a ploy to get the city/state to cover 100% of the roof costs leaving the team with a smaller overall portion to pay. I think most fans (or at least me and the majority of the people I know around here) would love an open air stadium, tons of people feel that moving indoors was the dumbest thing the team could do. But when push comes to shove it seems that all of the parties at the table (team, city, state) want a roof in some capacity. Its really too bad in a way, though with out the roof we'll never see late round NCAA basketball or the Superbowl around here again.

"...Expect nothing to get done this year"

Vikings Stadium Update: Team Can't Move So State Doesn't Care About New Venue

The Minnesota Vikings will likely go another year without any kind of plan on the table whatsoever. While it's unlikely that the team actually moves forward with potential plans to relocate for 2012, they have until Wednesday to notify the league. It's not likely that they're able to get something done in that regard though, as there doesn't seem to be anywhere for them to go.

This realization that there isn't much of a threat of the Vikings actually leaving has basically made the legislators completely ignore the situation for the time being. Despite the fact that important stadium issues can still be worked on, it looks like everybody is happy to put it on the back-burner, as they have for the last decade. The Star Tribune has a quote from Representative Ryan Winkler that is illuminating in that regard:

"The Vikings have tried to create the impression, through somewhat subtle threats, that they could move," said Rep. Ryan Winkler, DFL-Golden Valley. "But ... I think there's a growing realization that the Vikings have nowhere to go."

In other words, the Vikings are bluffing so the state can do whatever they want to them. The article also includes a quote from Governor Mark Dayton, in which he is already talking about next year, which is just about the closest thing you can get to him saying "the stadium plans are done this year. It's not going to happen."

While it's true that there are still some things that can be decided, it would likely mean the Vikings moving ahead with a proposal that they're not fond of so they can finally get a new place to play sooner rather than very much later. Really, the Vikings deserve better than that, but that's how it is. If nothing is done over the next week to two weeks, expect nothing to get done this year.

http://minnesota.sbnation.com/minnesota-vikings/2012/2/14/2797943/vikings-stadium-update-relocation-metrodome-mark-dayton

So in short, the Vikings have until tomorrow to give notification of their plans to relocate. Obviously, that's not gonna happen. And the state of Minnesota doesn't care anymore. Thus, the Vikings are stuck where they are.

I guess the Vikings will have to sign a short-term lease on the Metrodome, and hope something will get done sooner or later.

Tough luck, guys. Better luck next year.:yawn:

So in short, the Vikings have until tomorrow to give notification of their plans to relocate. Obviously, that's not gonna happen. And the state of Minnesota doesn't care anymore. Thus, the Vikings are stuck where they are.

I guess the Vikings will have to sign a short-term lease on the Metrodome, and hope something will get done sooner or later.

Tough luck, guys. Better luck next year.:yawn:
One good bit of info: there is a new G-4 program, with contributions being made of up to $200 million. At least, that's what the Niners are getting. If the Vikings visit the legislature next year, with a package that includes the likely G-4 money, and another $300 million from suites, PSLs and naming rights, that should make the rest of the package easier to put together.

Closer to a resolution,

Sources: Vikings, state, Minneapolis have preliminary stadium deal (http://www.startribune.com/politics/statelocal/139543818.html)

"By ROCHELLE OLSON AND MIKE KASZUBA

Minneapolis, the state and the Minnesota Vikings have reached preliminary agreement on the division of costs for a $975 million stadium on a site at or near the 30-year-old Metrodome, according to multiple sources who spoke Friday on condition of anonymity.

The city would contribute $150 million in construction costs to the downtown Minneapolis project. The state would pay $398 million and the Vikings would pay $427 million. The city also would pay approximately $180 million in operating costs over the next 30 years, the sources said..."

"...If the preliminary agreement holds, it is only the beginning. The package would need to pass the Legislature and likely the Minneapolis City Council – neither of which is assured. The National Football League would also have to approve the agreement..."

From the perspective of this division rival (Bears fan) this is truly great news. I loathed the idea of not having a Vikings team in Minnesota to root against. To many more great Bears-Vikes games for decades to come! :cheers:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/chi-report-vikings-strike-agreement-to-build-stadium-20120217,0,7690922.story

Report: Vikings strike agreement to build stadium

Tribune News Services

10:00 p.m. CST, February 17, 2012

The Minnesota Vikings have reportedly struck a preliminary agreement with Minneapolis city and state officials on a new stadium to be built at or near a site of the team's current building, the Metrodome.

The Minneapolis Star Tribune reported a number of anonymous sources told the paper the city would cover about $330,000 in construction and operating costs over the next 30 years. The state, meanwhile, would pay $398 million and the Vikings would chip in $427 million.

An announcement on the $975 million stadium is expected next week, according to the paper.

The team's lease recently expired, pushing the issue to the front-burner of state officials' agendas.

Officials indicate the parking lot next to the Metrodome may be large enough to house the new stadium, taking care of the locale issue.

"We've gone from the Vikings playing at TCF (on the U of M campus) for three years, to maybe two years to maybe no time," Minneapolis Mayor R.T. Rybak said of a new analysis of the site, according to kaaltv.com.

...

Two questions:

Will this proposed stadium be built on the southeastern side of the Metrodome (where the Xcel substation is located), as previously conjured up?

Is this deal as "tentative" as the Farmers Field project?

Two questions:

Will this proposed stadium be built on the southeastern side of the Metrodome (where the Xcel substation is located), as previously conjured up?

Is this deal as "tentative" as the Farmers Field project?
As near as I can tell, the answers are maybe and sort of. The 'maybe' comes from the lack of definitive plans at this stage. The 'sort of' comes from the lack of final legislative approval, but having an actual team involved, which also makes the plan eligible for up to $200 million from the NFL's new G-4 plan.

One thing that wasn't mentioned in the preliminary agreement revelation was what time of roof it will have: open, closed or retractable.

My gut tells me it will be a closed, with perhaps some retractable facades on the side. But I hope for a retractable.

Personally, while I like the glass facades of the Lucas Oil Stadium, the rest of it screams bland, aesthetically.

I'd be shocked if this does end up looking anything like Lucas Oil given its location, context etc. As for whether or not the roof is retractable, I would guess the $975 million budget should allow for one along with at least one retractable wall (every Aecom proposal has included them so far, and HKS loves them so it seems very likely). Hopefully we can see some visuals and detailed financing in the next month or so, then one can really determine the likelyhood of if, and how well its going to to be resolved.

One thing that wasn't mentioned in the preliminary agreement revelation was what time of roof it will have: open, closed or retractable.

My gut tells me it will be a closed, with perhaps some retractable facades on the side. But I hope for a retractable.

Personally, while I like the glass facades of the Lucas Oil Stadium, the rest of it screams bland, aesthetically.

I'd be shocked if this does end up looking anything like Lucas Oil given its location, context etc. As for whether or not the roof is retractable, I would guess the $975 million budget should allow for one along with at least one retractable wall (every Aecom proposal has included them so far, and HKS loves them so it seems very likely). Hopefully we can see some visuals and detailed financing in the next month or so, then one can really determine the likelyhood of if, and how well its going to to be resolved.

Please don't tell me they are gonna spend all that money on this stadium and NOT put a retractable roof on it!!! Waste of time and money...

Theres been talk both ways, if they maintain the budget at about $1 billion I would say yes it will have a retractable roof, if the budget drops by a substantial amount then it probably goes to a fixed roof.

This could mean trouble for any stadium plan in Minneapolis. A stadium in Arden Hills is going to run into the same "referendum" problem as well.


Minneapolis council holds the line on Vikings stadium (http://www.startribune.com/politics/statelocal/140390793.html)
Article by: ERIC ROPER , Star Tribune Updated: February 24, 2012 - 11:23 PM

"A seven-member bloc on the City Council favors a referendum on any Viking stadium subsidy..."

"...Seven of the 13 council members -- representing south Minneapolis, downtown and University neighborhoods -- have said they oppose the mayor's plan to pay the city's share of a $1 billion stadium using existing hospitality taxes, absent a citywide referendum. The state and the team are expected to pay for the rest..."

^^I was wondering about something.

Are there any chances that the new stadium will be an open-air one?

It would be nice if the new stadium were roofless, so that it could match up to Lambeau Field.

But if the new stadium needs to have a roof, I hope its dome will be as high as the Georgia Dome.:)

The football fan in me still holds out hope that everything will come crashing down and somehow a scaled down outdoor stadium in the suburbs will win out. That's not looking too good right now.

With a token Super Bowl and multiple Final Four NCAA tournaments on the line, I can't blame the state for insisting on a roof. Undoubtedly, the best return on investment for a public project.

I know the Vikings have liked Lucas Oil as their showroom stadium. Can anyone confirm whether this most recent Mpls price tag is based on retractable or fixed roof? Either way, I think a new spin on Ford Field or Lucas Oil Field is about what you can expect.

Announcement due today for a deal on a new Vikings Stadium in downtown Minneapolis:

http://www.startribune.com/local/minneapolis/140984883.html

The State, City of Minneapolis and the Vikings have agreed to an overall financial plan for a new stadium.

http://www.startribune.com/politics/blogs/141027143.html
"State contribution to new Vikings stadium: $398 million
By Rachel E. Stassen-Berger

After days of intense, closed-door meetings, DFL Gov. Mark Dayton and the Minnesota Vikings on Thursday morning announced an agreement for what the governor called, "a new people's stadium" in downtown Minneapolis.

The new $975 million stadium would be open by 2016, under the plan. The deal remains contingent upon legislative and Minneapolis City Council approval..."


Here is the site plan.
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/3676/vikesiteplan.png

At the macro scale the financials seem about as good as any City/State can expect to get these days (which isn't to say that's great), but the particulars of the deal are mired in more contingencies and kickers then I'm inclined to automatically embrace. Too soon to gauge my in-laws thoughts but the comments on the paper's web site imply the locals are not thrilled.

I've not seen whether they've run an economic model like those from REMI or LOCI to see how close, if at all, this will come to yielding return on the public investment. Based on the preliminaries run for a proposed new Falcons stadium I'd say the governments are still paying some $100M more than they should. If Zigi is going to reap all the revenue returns and use outside sources (NFL +) to cover the Vikes share of the up-front costs, methinks the State can do much better.

All that being said, the location and movement to secure a domed/retractable roof venue are ideal, IMO.

I wouldn't be surprised if the city council votes this down. Public stadiums are not popular with the Minneapolis electorate.

I wouldn't be surprised if the city council votes this down. Public stadiums are not popular with the Minneapolis electorate.

I'm thinking that the City Council will look very bad (worse than they already do) to most of the rest of the state.

More details,

How the new stadium would look and operate (http://www.startribune.com/politics/blogs/141066343.html)

"-- The new stadium would have a fixed roof, with an option to go retractable "without any increase to the funding provided by state or city." That would seem to suggest that if the Vikings want a retractable roof, they'd have to pay for it.

-- No word on what kind of fixed roof it would be, but chances are it won't be another fiberglass bubble like the one that's covered the Metrodome for 30 years; that stadium design went out years ago.

-- It would have 65,000 seats -- expandable to 72,000 for big events like the Super Bowl -- and include about 150 suites and 7,500 club seats.

-- A new parking ramp would be built north of the stadium, on property already owned by the Wilf family, connected to the stadium by a skyway; an underground ramp to the west may be connected by tunnel.

-- The current Metropolitan Sports Facilities Commission would dissolve and be replaced by a new stadium commission with five members, three appointed by the governor and two by Minneapolis, to own and operate the stadium on the public's behalf.

-- The Vikings have exclusive rights to bring Major League Soccer to the new stadium within five years of its opening, and the team could play there without paying additional rent. "The team intends to actively evaluate pursuing an MLS franchise," the term sheet says.

-- The Vikings would be able to use the stadium for up to 10 dates each year for non-NFL or professional soccer events, such as an NFL draft party, without paying additional rent.

-- The stadium hasn't yet been designed, but stadium commissioner Ted Mondale said one model is Lucas Oil Stadium in Indianapolis, a downtown stadium that hosted this year's Super Bowl. Lucas Oil is used throughout the term sheet as an example of minimal operating standards that would be applied to the Minneapolis stadium.

-- The Vikings would have the right to sell the naming rights and collect the revenue for it, but the stadium authority will be able to approve or reject the name to ensure it doesn't cause embarrassment. That means no "sexually explicit subject matter, business or enterprise or any firearms, or tobacco company."

-- Yes, Purple People, the new stadium would have space set aside -- perhaps a small, hushed amphitheater with a spotlight on Fran Tarkenton's helmet -- for a Vikings Hall of Fame."

^^
Interesting to see the "aggressive persuit" of an MLS franchise, a second franchise would be benificial for downtown east business, though an MLS team in an NFL stadium is almost always problematic (and we do not quite have Seattle's passion for the beautiful game).

Would have preferred retractable roof as opposed to fixed, but if they use Cowboy Stadium style retractable wall towards downtown and enough glazing around the top then a fixed metal roof is acceptable in my mind.

And I am really happy to see a project on this site moving forward, Aecom has been doing extensive studies for years and it seem like we will see something interesting in the very near future, even if there is a fixed roof.

Hooray!!! :banana:

Now question is whether Minneapolis will go along with it...

Funny how they say that it is next to the Metrodome, but it is pretty much right on top of it. That's gotta be 2 seasons worth of construction right there...

I think the prelim top-down view of the stadium is promising. Just don't make it look like a warehouse (ahem, Lucas Oil Stadium.)

Hooray!!! :banana:

Now question is whether Minneapolis will go along with it...

Funny how they say that it is next to the Metrodome, but it is pretty much right on top of it. That's gotta be 2 seasons worth of construction right there...

I think the prelim top-down view of the stadium is promising. Just don't make it look like a warehouse (ahem, Lucas Oil Stadium.)

I would guess the number of seats and amenities will be very similar to Lucas Oil, but I can't imagine the execution of the design has much aesthetic similarity. That will certainly depend on the architect, however the city will want nothing to do with red brick retro; and while the team might, the majority of the community will probably react more favorably to a crisp modern desgin with a play of local materials more along the lines of Target field than Lucas Oil.

Hooray!!! :banana:

Now question is whether Minneapolis will go along with it...

Funny how they say that it is next to the Metrodome, but it is pretty much right on top of it. That's gotta be 2 seasons worth of construction right there...

I think the prelim top-down view of the stadium is promising. Just don't make it look like a warehouse (ahem, Lucas Oil Stadium.)

For a long time, the team was trying to avoid having to play in another stadium while the new stadium was being built. For that reason, there was briefly a plan to try and squeeze a new one right next to the Metrodome (what you're talking about)

However, since then, a deal has been struck that was satisfactory enough for them to accept playing at TCF Bank stadium for a year or two while a new one was built. Clearing the way for them to be able to tear down the Metrodome and build a new one in the same footprint (The new proposal).

For a long time, the team was trying to avoid having to play in another stadium while the new stadium was being built. For that reason, there was briefly a plan to try and squeeze a new one right next to the Metrodome (what you're talking about)

However, since then, a deal has been struck that was satisfactory enough for them to accept playing at TCF Bank stadium for a year or two while a new one was built. Clearing the way for them to be able to tear down the Metrodome and build a new one in the same footprint (The new proposal).

Right. What I find funny is how they still word it like there will be very little overlap (and time at TCF), but the pictures say otherwise.

So, is it fair to say that the retractable roof is contingent almost entirely on Wilf's success in landing an MLS team? There's no chance that the MLS will set up shop in an indoor stadium. Even retractable roof might be a challenge. Didn't Seattle need a special exemption to play in an NFL-sized stadium?

Hooray!!! :banana:

Now question is whether Minneapolis will go along with it...

Funny how they say that it is next to the Metrodome, but it is pretty much right on top of it. That's gotta be 2 seasons worth of construction right there...





Its probably only one season if they are smart, Jacksonville rebuilt like 80% their stadium in 14 months, Stanford completely tore out their old stadium and put in a new one during a single off season and this is really not much different than Busch III, which certainly didn't take two seasons. With everything being precast these days other than maybe the columns one would imagine an offseason should be doable

Re: Jax and Stanford rebuilds - Both those scenarios featured smaller structures being torn down, less populated areas and space adjacent to the sites for accomodating material and equipment storage. At the least the Metrodome site will be much more constrained than either of those, plus Minnesota has harsher weather conditions to consider.

If the Vikes miss the playoffs and can begin demolition within the week after the last game, then maybe. Otherwise I'm guessing 2 seasons in transition.

how the stadium gonna look like post photos

Re: Jax and Stanford rebuilds - Both those scenarios featured smaller structures being torn down, less populated areas and space adjacent to the sites for accomodating material and equipment storage. At the least the Metrodome site will be much more constrained than either of those, plus Minnesota has harsher weather conditions to consider.

If the Vikes miss the playoffs and can begin demolition within the week after the last game, then maybe. Otherwise I'm guessing 2 seasons in transition.
What about Chicago? Similar lousy weather, and the most constrained site possible, in between those columns. And the Bears spent only one season (2002) playing in Champaign. It should be easy to replace the Metrodome in 19 months.

So let me get this straight...

The new stadium will be constructed in the same fashion that Busch Stadium was built? (Meaning that half of the Metrodome's footprint will be used for the new stadium.)

Could the following be the possible timeline?

New stadium begins construction ----> Vikings temporarily move to TCF Bank while the Metrodome is being demolished and cleared ----> The remaining portions of the new stadium is completed over the former Dome site

Yeah thats the idea, and it should be doable with one season at TCF based on the above mentioned precedents. Half the stadium gets built, then the Dome is torn out and the other half of the new stadium is implemented.

I think it would be premature to talk about this stadium as if it was a done deal. The city of Minneapolis backed this plan on the premise that the renovation of the Target Center would be in the same bill which is now not happening. If that isn't included in the deal then it probably doesn't get past the city council. The Minneapolis city charter stipulates that any large dollar public subsidy of a stadium has to be voted on in a referendum. The mayor is using some rather convoluted legal logic to go around that. That issue will likely end up in court. If there is a referendum it will almost certainly fail. Also this needs to be passed by the legislature which is not a given.

I think it would be premature to talk about this stadium as if it was a done deal. The city of Minneapolis backed this plan on the premise that the renovation of the Target Center would be in the same bill which is now not happening. If that isn't included in the deal then it probably doesn't get past the city council. The Minneapolis city charter stipulates that any large dollar public subsidy of a stadium has to be voted on in a referendum. The mayor is using some rather convoluted legal logic to go around that. That issue will likely end up in court. If there is a referendum it will almost certainly fail. Also this needs to be passed by the legislature which is not a given.

Unfortunately I agree.

It ain't over til the fat lady sings. Or blows a horn, in this case.

Certainly true, and as much as I like Gary Schiff and much if the city council, there has been a lot of opposition there. And while I fundamentally disagree with massive public subsidies to private enterprises, this is the best deal the City and the State are likely to get while still keeping the team around for the long term. So heres hoping for a miracle and us getting this thing built.

So let me get this straight...

The new stadium will be constructed in the same fashion that Busch Stadium was built? (Meaning that half of the Metrodome's footprint will be used for the new stadium.)

Could the following be the possible timeline?

New stadium begins construction ----> Vikings temporarily move to TCF Bank while the Metrodome is being demolished and cleared ----> The remaining portions of the new stadium is completed over the former Dome site
Actually the Minnesota folk will have much more time. They only had five months to do the left field section of new Busch Stadium. Rebuilding on the Metrodome site will have 19 months.

Hey everyone. It seems as if the stadium bill has hit another roadblock.

Lawmakers don't know whether or not these "electronic pull-tabs" would provide enough funding.

It seems Minnesota lawmakers aren't any closer to making decisions about the future of the Vikings stadium.

No action on the main stadium bill was taken on Friday, which was the deadline for when bills must pass their committees.

There's concerns that electronic pull-tabs may not be enough to fund the state's share of the financial responsibility of the stadium.

Lawmakers from our area say there's still a lot of questions that need to be answered before any decisions are made.

"If there's not enough money to pay the state's share of the stadium, then what happens? Would the general fund have to make up the difference? So a lot of things up in the air right now that make people a little bit nervous about using charitable gambling, pull-tabs or electronic pull-tabs," said Republican State Representative Rich Murray.

Under the proposed bill, the city of Minneapolis would pay $150 million dollars, the Vikings would contribute $427 million, which leaves the state's portion at $398 million.

http://www.kimt.com/content/localnews/story/Vikings-Stadium-Update/z22lk6OA0ECgooubcPeWIQ.cspx

Anyone losing hope yet?:tongue:

San Mames Barria in Bilbao may well be the approach being adopted.

Here 75% of the new stadium will be built alongside the existing stadium, at which point the old stadium will be knocked down and the rest of the stadium will be completed.

If this is the case, approximately 55,000 seats will be built at which point, the Vikings need not move out of the stadium at all.

San Mames Barria in Bilbao may well be the approach being adopted.

Here 75% of the new stadium will be built alongside the existing stadium, at which point the old stadium will be knocked down and the rest of the stadium will be completed.

If this is the case, approximately 55,000 seats will be built at which point, the Vikings need not move out of the stadium at all.

Thats the plan, Populous is the firm that has been retained at the moment for these studies, and they have done more logistically challenging (in terms of time frame at any rate) projects in St Louis and Jacksonville. However the odds of this plan going through this year are getting bleaker by the day, so we shall see.....

Thats the plan, Populous is the firm that has been retained at the moment for these studies, and they have done more logistically challenging (in terms of time frame at any rate) projects in St Louis and Jacksonville. However the odds of this plan going through this year are getting bleaker by the day, so we shall see.....

But it WILL eventually get done within the next five years? Right?:?

But it WILL eventually get done within the next five years? Right?:?

It's hard to be optimistic at this point.

The current proposal is about the best we'll ever see. Cheapest site to build on, good infrastructure, large team and state contribution, and no tax increases. Yet, it still faces serious hurdles. A slight majority of the City Council seems determined to want at least a public referendum before it commits. Without the council's support, the legislature isn't going to move ahead.

If it can't be done this year. I think the Vikings are going to have to accept any plan will have to face a public referendum and be put before the public. I would like to see that happen, but I know the prospects of it passing are slim.

http://www.piercecountyherald.com/media/full/jpg/2011/05/10/0511-n-mcb-xgrvikings-art1-copy-750x506.jpg

I think the Vikings are going to have to accept any plan will have to face a public referendum and be put before the public. I would like to see that happen, but I know the prospects of it passing are slim.I know: The League could take some of their billions and use that to supplement the costs of their venues so as to not screw the taxpayers!!!







Right, what was I thinking. :bash:

I know: The League could take some of their billions and use that to supplement the costs of their venues so as to not screw the taxpayers!!!
Try this:
http://media.signonsandiego.com/news/documents/2011/12/14/NFL_on_its_new_stadium_loan_program.pdf

Unless you are one of those people who thinks that NFL owners just have 55 gallon drums full of cash lying around.

If the public stopped subsidizing stadiums it probably wouldn't change the profitability of sports in general. Owners would cut expenses elsewhere to pay for them, they would probably start with salaries. The problem is that sports leagues in North America operate as unregulated cartels. By limiting the number of teams they create an artificial scarcity that then allows them to extort stadiums from cities and states by threatening to move.

Personally I think the best solution is either for the public to stop financing stadiums or to use eminent domian to buy the teams and create Green Bay style ownership. Under public ownership the use of public money to build stadiums would be justified. If they wish to remain private but take public money there should be some sort of regulation to prevent them from using the extortion tactic of threatening to move to get new stadiums.

Under normal circumstances cartels are illegal because they allow business owners to manipulate the market. For some reason we have made an exception for sports leagues. This is something that needs to change. Personally I would be ok with those of us who live in Minnesota being the ones who stand up and say no to this nonsense. A lot of people here feel the same way, which is why stadium proposals always face strong headwinds in the legislature and the city council.

The Vikings released new renders of their stadium proposal.

http://finance-commerce.com/2012/04/vikings-release-new-stadium-images/

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/6545/vikesprop.jpg

Neat. They even included a public park. Let's build it.

Wouldn't a flat roof have snow issues?

In the second rendering it looks like they have rerouted the light rail.

I just have to chuckle at the place-holder name "Minnesota Sports Complex", since all the other sports facilities are located on the other side of downtown.:lol:

Wouldn't a flat roof have snow issues?

Why a fixed roof at all? Why not go retractable?

^^$$$$$$$

Why else? Nicely organized urban scheme that does look beneficial for downtown east, but the fixed roof is pretty disappointing.

Why a fixed roof at all? Why not go retractable?

How many months of the year will it be open? Two, maybe three?

Outside of an August/September/possibly October Vikings game there really is not a use for it outside of one (possible) summer concert. Not much use in the cost of the mechanics (I have seen estimates between $25M and $100M).

Plus, the Arden Hills/Ramsay County plan had the retractable roof and a plan for the Wilf's to try to get an MLS franchise. Clearly that was just the family trying to get the public to be OK with the tax hike since it would host more than ten events/games a year.

Personally, I wouldn't have gone with a roof at all, but hey, if it keeps the Vikes in Minnesota, more power to 'em.

In the second rendering it looks like they have rerouted the light rail.

I don't think so, it runs right in front of the armory, with the stadium shifting further back on the site and being elliptical in nature there is more room near the existing station but I can't imagine anyone would seriously propose moving the LRT for any reason other than absolute necessity of getting the stadium up.

I don't think so, it runs right in front of the armory, with the stadium shifting further back on the site and being elliptical in nature there is more room near the existing station but I can't imagine anyone would seriously propose moving the LRT for any reason other than absolute necessity of getting the stadium up.

The top pic and the bottom two pics are vastly different when it comes to the park area and LRT station. The top pic it is an ovalish building, the bottom two it is the square building w/ overhang roof.

They're just concept art at this point. Target Field didn't look much like the concept art either, if I remember correctly.

As far as the roof, it will be built "retractable ready", with the Vikes having the option of paying $100 million more in the future to make it so. (In all likelihood it will probably be $200 mil, more like. I can't imagine removing a roof is cheap!)

Too bad they didn't throw in a couple of interior pics.

Thats probably because they don't exist yet, which is why the vikings included a rendering a couple of generations old with these new exterior images on their website. So far they have done a masterplan with a rough massing for the stadium, if and when they secure funding a design for the interior will be fleshed out and then you can have some pretty renderings.

Wouldn't a flat roof have snow issues?

It's not flat. It's just pitched very shallow. I'm sure the engineers have taken into consideration an effective drainage system--probably including heating coils on the roof to instantly melt snow when needed.

"Flat" roofs are a myth anyway. Even roofs that appear flat are not--all roofs are pitched either inward toward a drain or outward to an eavetrough.

If this stadium ends up with a fixed roof, I hope its roof is higher than that on Ford Field.

It's not flat. It's just pitched very shallow. I'm sure the engineers have taken into consideration an effective drainage system--probably including heating coils on the roof to instantly melt snow when needed.

"Flat" roofs are a myth anyway. Even roofs that appear flat are not--all roofs are pitched either inward toward a drain or outward to an eavetrough.
I'm aware of that. But you need a slope of greater than 45 degrees for snow to fall off on it's own, and a power failure during a heavy snowstorm could do millions in damage to this design.

If this stadium ends up with a fixed roof, I hope its roof is higher than that on Ford Field.
Why?

Why?

So that something as large as U2's massive concert stage will fit inside the new stadium.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd51/Jericho-79/2009-10-28-U2VancouverDesktop.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/igffk5.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/11r8vex.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/9zm4c8.jpg

It's not flat. It's just pitched very shallow. I'm sure the engineers have taken into consideration an effective drainage system--probably including heating coils on the roof to instantly melt snow when needed.

"Flat" roofs are a myth anyway. Even roofs that appear flat are not--all roofs are pitched either inward toward a drain or outward to an eavetrough.

Almost there.

Some roofs truly are flat - but have rocks or grass with an extensive drainage system laid below that.

http://i43.tinypic.com/9zm4c8.jpg

Didn't realize they wanted to elevate the LRT too! haha.

That's another $150 right there...

^^Sarcasm?

Its a hybrid drawing not a photorealistic rendering. I believe they are trying to indicate sunken parking as well as a new ramp across from the stadium. Not show a true perspective but get at they layers of things going on

Wow, that whole thing really reminds of the original designs for Cowboys Stadium and its surroundings when it was going to near downtown Dallas. Same shape, but Cowboys Stadium was to have two half circle halves that slid away at an angle, and large, curved sliding glass walls at each end. It even had the DART blue/red line running down the middle of the plaza. Build that. Build it now. How much I wish things had gone right in Dallas.

A major blow against the Vikings Stadium.


Vikings stadium: In bipartisan vote, key House committee shoots down proposal (http://www.twincities.com/vikings/ci_20411498/vikings-stadium-proposal-gets-chilly-reception-key-house)

By Doug Belden
dbelden@pioneerpress.com
Posted: 04/17/2012 12:01:00 AM CDT
Updated: 04/17/2012 12:08:47 AM CDT

"After clearing two House committees with relative ease this month, a bill to use public money to help build a Minnesota Vikings stadium in Minneapolis was defeated Monday night, April 16, in a third, dealing a potentially fatal blow to the project's chances this legislative session.

In a 9-6 vote that was bipartisan in its opposition, the House Government Operations and Elections Committee declined to go along with even a watered-down motion to pass the bill "without recommendation" to the House Taxes Committee.

Bill sponsor Morrie Lanning, R-Moorhead, called the vote "very disappointing" and said that for the bill to have any chance now to pass this session - which is expected to conclude by the end of the month - "Somebody's going to have to pull a rabbit out of a hat."

Vikings vice president Lester Bagley called the outcome "extremely disappointing" and said "it's a mistake" for people to assume the Vikings and the NFL will continue operating under the status quo...."

"...In the Senate, the stadium bill had a hearing in committee in March, and there has been talk of holding another, but nothing has been scheduled..."

Hmmm. I'd heard that the "w/o recommendation" option was expected, so someone in that committee obviously had strong feelings on the matter. I'm as leery as the next guy about public financing for these things, but sooner or later this matters going to come to a head, and I'd really hate to see anyone from the Black and Blue division removed from the picture.

Wow, that whole thing really reminds of the original designs for Cowboys Stadium and its surroundings when it was going to near downtown Dallas. Same shape, but Cowboys Stadium was to have two half circle halves that slid away at an angle, and large, curved sliding glass walls at each end. It even had the DART blue/red line running down the middle of the plaza. Build that. Build it now. How much I wish things had gone right in Dallas.

Again....

http://trailblazersblog.dallasnews.com/Laura%20Miller%20-%20DMN%20staff%206-2007.jpg

Deal must be in place by Feb 15, or Vikings will leave

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/04/17/minnesota-governor-says-that-without-stadium-deal-in-2013-vikings-will-leave/

To where though, LA stadium deal doesnt look too good in shape right now.

To where though, LA stadium deal doesnt look too good in shape right now.
Why not? They just released the EIR. All they need is a team.

The LA stadium is fine. They are now in the post-EIR 45-day period for public input.

There is still a (good) plan in the works, its just waiting for the politicians in StP to go home first.
Hennepin Co. Could Help Save Vikings Stadium Deal Updated: 04/17/2012 10:31 PM KSTP.com
By: Jay Kolls
Hennepin County Commissioners are meeting with developers of the Farmer's Market site.
Sources tell 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS that the developers have reconfigured the Farmer's Market site and are now calling it the "Stadium District" site. It would move the stadium property line within 100 yards of Target Field.
The idea is to create a sports complex with restaurants, hotels and entertainment connecting the new Vikings stadium to Target Field and Target Center.
Hennepin County Commission Vice-Chair, Mark Stenglein confirmed that he and Commission Chairman, Mike Opat, have met regularly with developers of the Stadium District site.
Sources tell us Hennepin County is waiting for the legislative session to end without a Vikings stadium deal. If that happens, expect Hennepin County and developers of the Stadium District site to unveil their plans publicly.
Sources also tell us Target Corporation has expressed interest in the naming rights to the new stadium, giving the company naming rights on Target Field, Target Center and what would be the new Target Stadium.http://kstp.com/article/stories/s2585968.shtml

God, this story has more turns than Nürburgring.

God, this story has more turns than Nürburgring.
Its Minnesota, remember the decades long fight to get a Twins ballpark built? :lol:

We haven't even had the season long bluff of contraction yet.

AEa-A6FhDrg

Goddell really gets on my nerves.

Minnesota Senate Committee OKs Vikings subsidy bill after visit by Goodell (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7836485/minnesota-senate-committee-approves-bill-public-subsidy-help-vikings-build-new-stadium-minneapolis)

ST. PAUL, Minn. -- A Minnesota Senate committee has approved a bill for a public subsidy to help the Vikings build a new football stadium in downtown Minneapolis, just hours after NFL commissioner Roger Goodell visited the Minnesota Capitol in St. Paul to urge state lawmakers to resolve the stadium issue.

The Local Government and Elections Committee passed the stadium bill on a vote of 8-6 Friday. The vote revives the struggling stadium bill just a few days after a House committee rejected a version of it.

The Vikings have sought a replacement for the Metrodome for more than a decade. Though they will play next season in the Dome, their lease has expired.

Goodell and Pittsburgh Steelers owner Art Rooney II met with Gov. Mark Dayton and legislative leaders on Friday in hopes of jumpstarting a stalled stadium debate.

"They were here basically to say, 'This is it, folks," Dayton said.

A simmering movement to put a franchise in Los Angeles came up in the discussion at the prompting of lawmakers, Dayton said. Sen. Julie Rosen, a Republican sponsoring the stadium bill, said legislative leaders heard that Los Angeles is an option, even if there was no explicit threat from the NFL.

Now just have to see if the Minnesota House will reject this new one or not. I'd be surprised if they did.

How many non-football events will this stadium host? A Super Bowl once every 10-12 years? A Final Four once every 8-9 years?

How many non-football events will this stadium host? A Super Bowl once every 10-12 years? A Final Four once every 8-9 years?

If Cowboys Stadium is any indication, a lot more than you would think. Motocross, monster trucks, rodeos, mainstream concerts, classical concerts, all kinds of corporate events, high school football playoffs, non-final four college basketball games, regional college football games, even a PBA championship as weird as that sounds. The Dallas Symphony is actually playing at Cowboys Stadium this weekend. I have to say I greatly underestimated how much use Cowboys Stadium would get, but it would have gotten even more events if it was in Downtown Dallas.

Loads of events due to it having a roof. Just hope the team does not move to LA

Could the Minnesota Vikings move to L.A.?

April, 20, 2012
By Arash Markazi | ESPNLosAngeles.com

LOS ANGELES -- It looks as if the NFL once again pulled out its favorite trump card Friday while talking to Minnesota lawmakers about passing a financial package to build the Minnesota Vikings a new stadium.

“There is no ultimatum, but we did clearly talk about L.A. We did clearly talk about that an open market," Minnesota Sen. Julie Rosen said. "I do believe there is a feeling in some legislators and even in some folks throughout the state that they would never leave. So it was good to hear from the NFL, and from a very prominent owner, that they do have the right to move or be sold.”

With all due respect to Sen. Rosen, the NFL has used the “L.A. is an open market” line for the past 17 years since the Raiders and Rams left the No. 2 media market in the country in 1995 for Oakland and St. Louis, respectively. To their credit, the line has worked remarkably well. Since 1995, 21 new stadiums have been built for 22 teams in the NFL with most of them largely funded by a public sector fearful of losing its team if the local government doesn't chip in to build a new stadium.

Minnesota lawmakers wasted little time jumping at the NFL's threat Friday as a Minnesota Senate committee narrowly approved a public subsidy to help the Vikings build a new football stadium mere hours after after NFL commissioner Roger Goodell visited the state capital. The stadium bill still faces a long road in the final 10 days of Minnesota's legislative session but there is at least some hope now.

There is still, however, the very real possibility that a majority of Minnesota lawmakers could scoff at the idea of the public sector largely funding a new Vikings stadium during a recession. If that happens, could that decision ultimately lead to the NFL returning to Los Angeles? The answers, or at least some educated guesses, can be found below.

[B]Could the Minnesota Vikings really move to Los Angeles?

If you ask those who have been working toward getting the Vikings a new stadium in Minnesota for the past decade, the answer to that question will likely be answered by Minnesota’s political leaders over the next 10 days. After plans for a $975 million proposed stadium failed in committee a few days ago, the Vikings and the NFL urged Minnesota to raise the stadium issue again before the Minnesota state legislature finishes its current session at the end of the month, which seems likely at this point after Friday's news.

Goodell and Pittsburgh Steelers owner Art Rooney II flew to St. Paul, Minn. on Friday to meet with Minnesota Gov. Mark Dayton and legislative leaders to let them know the importance of getting the stadium proposal to a full floor vote and not having the issue die in committee as it did earlier this session. In their eyes, a failure to vote will be viewed as a no vote and the Vikings and the league would be forced to explore other options at that time. Either way, this is an issue that simply cannot be pushed aside until 2013. If it drags into next year, the Vikings could very well look to move to Los Angeles rather than play another year at the Metrodome and go through another round of political hurdles and hallow promises.

Why do the Vikings want to leave Minnesota?

It’s not so much Minnesota as it is the Metrodome. The Vikings' lease with the Metropolitan Sports Facilities Commission to play in the Metrodome expired after the 2011 season, leaving the Vikings as the lone team in the NFL without a current home. They will play the upcoming season in the Metrodome, but the Vikings don’t want to commit to anything past this season without a new stadium plan in place.

Long before the roof of the Metrodome collapsed in 2010, forcing the Vikings to play two home games at Detroit’s Ford Field and then the University of Minnesota, the team’s ownership has considered the venue inadequate. It is one of the 10 oldest stadiums in the NFL, and under the Vikings’ lease with the Metropolitan Sports Facilities Commission, which was signed in 1979, the commission owns the stadium and the Vikings simply rent it.

“It’s challenging from both a fan experience and from a revenue and competiveness experience,” said Lester Bagley, Vikings vice president of public affairs and stadium development. “Right now we’re significantly subsidized by other NFL teams because of the Metrodome and the lack of revenue. The Metrodome is no longer an NFL facility and it can no longer sustain a team and is not a viable long-term solution.”

Would Zygi Wilf be the one to move the Vikings or would someone else do it?

New Jersey real estate magnate Zygi Wilf, 63, and a group of investors bought the Vikings from Red McCombs in 2005 for $600 million. At the time McCombs had unsuccessfully tried to get a new stadium for the Vikings for years and now Wilf is in the same boat. Wilf isn't currently looking to sell the team, but has met with AEG president and CEO Tim Leiweke, who is the former CEO of the Minnesota Timberwolves.

“We’ve followed the situation in Los Angeles through the NFL and we know Tim Leiweke, who is a former sports executive in Minneapolis,” Bagley told ESPNLosAngeles.com last year. “We’ve been in contact with Tim and he provides us with updates but our focus is on getting a new stadium in Minnesota. That’s our plan A and we don’t have a plan B.”

If the Vikings are unable to get a new stadium plan in place by 2012, Wilf could very well look to sell the team to someone who could move the Vikings to Los Angeles. With no new stadium plan in place, it would be hard for Wilf to sell to someone wanting to keep the team in Minnesota and at the Metrodome. And while the league normally doesn’t allow teams to be sold to owners looking to relocate, NFL executive vice president Eric Grubman said if the new owners of the Vikings filed for relocation after purchasing the team, the league would certainly be open to that possibility in light of the stadium situation in Minnesota and the league’s failed efforts to get a new stadium in the area.

Who could potentially buy the Vikings and move them to Los Angeles?

There are currently two stadium and ownership options in Los Angeles and both groups have already reached out to the Vikings. Real estate magnate Ed Roski, 74, wants to buy a team and build a 75,000-seat stadium to be the centerpiece of a 600-acre site on the northern side of the 57 and 60 freeway interchange in Industry, Calif. The site is currently vacant but following the construction of the stadium would be revamped into an entertainment and retail complex. His old friend and billionaire, Philip Anschutz, 72, is the principal financial backer of the other proposal. Anschutz wants to buy a team and build a 75,000-seat stadium in downtown Los Angeles that would be connected and serve as an extension to a remodeled Los Angeles Convention Center next to Staples Center. Roski’s project is currently “shovel ready” while Anschutz’s project will likely be in position to push dirt in March 2013 once it has an approved environmental impact report, which is expected early next year.

What would the timeline be for relocation if that were the plan?

NFL bylaws state that the NFL commissioner must receive written notice from a team wishing to relocate no later than Feb. 15 of the year in which the move is scheduled to occur. So the Vikings have until Feb. 15, 2013 to decide if they want to relocate. Chances are something will happen well before then, especially if Wilf wants to sell the team and give the new owners enough time to file for relocation. Once a team files for relocation, NFL owners would vote on it at their March meetings and if it were approved, construction would then begin on the new stadium and the Vikings would likely play in either the Coliseum or the Rose Bowl temporarily until their new stadium was ready, which would most likely be in 2017.

If the Vikings moved would Minnesota get to keep the Vikings’ name, colors and history?

That’s a decision that would be up to the owners and the league but it’s very likely that if the Vikings moved to Los Angeles they would be rebranded and renamed and Minnesota would be allowed to keep their name, colors and history, much like in Cleveland with the Browns. Los Angeles wants a new team of their own while the NFL wants to keep the Vikings in Minnesota and wants to have a presence in the Twin Cities. If for whatever reason that isn’t possible now and the Vikings are forced to relocate, the city would remain in the mix to get a franchise as soon as it had a new stadium plan in place. As Los Angeles football fans can tell you, however, that wait can last a generation if you lose a team.

http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/nfl/post/_/id/807/could-the-minnesota-vikings-really-move-to-l-a

Loads of events due to it having a roof. Just hope the team does not move to LA

Yeah, I'd rather it be either San Diego or Oakland... or even St. Louis.... since they all already have fanbases there.

Yeah, I'd rather it be either San Diego or Oakland... or even St. Louis.... since they all already have fanbases there.

Would move the jags since fans don't support that team

That doesn't have anything to do with it. The Dodgers and Lakers didn't have a fanbase in Los Angeles when they moved from Brooklyn and Minneapolis; they're doing just fine. The Vikings franchise can move, but the name should stay in Minnesota.

Would move the jags since fans don't support that team

Although they don't have the greatest of fan bases, that's a bit exaggerated. The real reason why people are calling for the Jaguars to move is because out of the teams mentioned to move to L.A., their franchise is by far the youngest. I'm in my early 20's and if I can remember being around in a time when there was NO Jacksonville Jaguars, then it's a pretty young franchise.


I don't think the Jaguars are going anywhere. The lease for their stadium pretty much keeps em in J'ville for a good while. Personally, I wouldn't want them to go to L.A.

That doesn't have anything to do with it. The Dodgers and Lakers didn't have a fanbase in Los Angeles when they moved from Brooklyn and Minneapolis; they're doing just fine. The Vikings franchise can move, but the name should stay in Minnesota.

Are you talking to me or Darloeye?

That doesn't have anything to do with it. The Dodgers and Lakers didn't have a fanbase in Los Angeles when they moved from Brooklyn and Minneapolis; they're doing just fine. The Vikings franchise can move, but the name should stay in Minnesota.

Missing the logic here. The name (and all other intangibles) are owned by Zygi Wilf through some holding company, as far as I know. Why would Minn. keep them? They could try to buy them if they wanted to pay for them, just like they could buy the name of Honeywell or 3M or Mayo Medical Center if those companies moved facilities out of state.

btw, this whole scene is reminiscent of the Colts (show also took their name with them) when they were trying to pump taxpayer money out of Indianapolis. As I recall Irsay parked his private plane in Van Nuys airport until the Indie legislature wet their pants and caved. Same story for Minn?

39i7_lV6xMA

Missing the logic here. The name (and all other intangibles) are owned by Zygi Wilf through some holding company, as far as I know. Why would Minn. keep them? They could try to buy them if they wanted to pay for them, just like they could buy the name of Honeywell or 3M or Mayo Medical Center if those companies moved facilities out of state.

btw, this whole scene is reminiscent of the Colts (show also took their name with them) when they were trying to pump taxpayer money out of Indianapolis. As I recall Irsay parked his private plane in Van Nuys airport until the Indie legislature wet their pants and caved. Same story for Minn?

The Colts do not have a good fan base compared to a lot of other NFL teams. Indy needed Lucas Oil to be built for reasons other than just the Colts.

I prefer the Downtown plan over the Farmer's Market plan.

The area around Target Field and the Target Center seems awfully congested already.

The Colts do not have a good fan base compared to a lot of other NFL teams. Indy needed Lucas Oil to be built for reasons other than just the Colts.

Thats news to me was under the impression that the Colts were one of the best supported teams.

The Colts do not have a good fan base compared to a lot of other NFL teams. Indy needed Lucas Oil to be built for reasons other than just the Colts.

Could be. But the poster boy was Irsay's airplane with the big ole horsehoes on it parked at Van Nuys. I'm sure somebody still has a picture of it somewhere.

(Pictures of the Indie legislature wetting their pants are not available, but we may be able to get some of the Minn. legislators if the NFL needs to make some more "non-threats".

Thats news to me was under the impression that the Colts were one of the best supported teams.

Considering the size of Indy they have been quite well supported over the years, but going 12-4 like every single for the last decade year may have inflated the impression of their fan base a bit. Its also worth noting that they played in the leagues smallest stadium for a number of years (RCA dome) and still play in one of the smallest capacity stadiums in Lucas Oil.

Considering the size of Indy they have been quite well supported over the years, but going 12-4 like every single for the last decade year may have inflated the impression of their fan base a bit. Its also worth noting that they played in the leagues smallest stadium for a number of years (RCA dome) and still play in one of the smallest capacity stadiums in Lucas Oil.

yeah it did seem little weird building the new stadium with about the same capacity. Just more suites to sell

I was just thinking: this can't be easy for Roger. He has to go to SD, Oakland, St. Louis, Jacksonville and Minneapolis and tell each of them that there there are serious consequences that will arise if they don't drop their pants for the local billionaires.

I mean, how many teams can move to LA? Two is possible, but zero or 1 is far more likely for the near future. And there is even some rumble that LA and Toronto could get expansion teams.

I know that governors, etc., are not the sharpest tacks, but still, how credible could any of this be? ("Roger, are you lying to me? No. Are you? No. Are you?......(sheepishly) Yes.")

I dont think Rams stadium is that bad.

I dont think Rams stadium is that bad.

It's really not. It was built in the mid 90's..... CAN'T be that bad.

It was a convention annex built on the cheap to give Frontiere an excuse to move the team from LA. It's an airplane hangar that doubles as a football team's home stadium for eight games a year. Lifeless, soulless, and no one shows up to the games anyway

Nice thing. Another place to spend your money with. Great! hahaha.

What's the (current) budget for a new stadium?

What's the (current) budget for a new stadium?

I think the NFL guidebooks says you budget for 800M until you get voter approval, then it goes to 1.2B. Actual cost is around 1.6B to 2B, depending on how much you skim off to your buddies.

I think the NFL guidebooks says you budget for 800M until you get voter approval, then it goes to 1.2B. Actual cost is around 1.6B to 2B, depending on how much you skim off to your buddies.
Rather cynical for a Monday.

Rather cynical for a Monday.

I'm a 24/7 kind of guy.

But Roger and Bud and David and all the owners make it easy to be cynical.

It was a convention annex built on the cheap to give Frontiere an excuse to move the team from LA. It's an airplane hangar that doubles as a football team's home stadium for eight games a year. Lifeless, soulless, and no one shows up to the games anyway
Its funny, St Louis loves their Blues and Cards but never embraced Rams totally.

Why not build a more luxurious version of Swedbank/Friends Arena in Stockholm, Sweden? It costed US$ 320M + an additional 100M for ground preparations.

Why not build a more luxurious version of Swedbank/Friends Arena in Stockholm, Sweden? It costed US$ 320M + an additional 100M for ground preparations.

Because thanks to Jerry Jones, you can't build "cheap" stadiums like that anymore...

Latest news says that the full Senate legislature could vote on a Vikings bill as early as thursday or friday.

The bill is still working its way through committee meetings in the House.

Latest news says that the full Senate legislature could vote on a Vikings bill as early as thursday or friday.

The bill is still working its way through committee meetings in the House.
Unfortunately, a house committee is where it died last time.

Unfortunately, a house committee is where it died last time.

It can still go to the House floor despite last weeks negative vote. Todays news reports say it could go to a full House vote by the end of the week just like the Senate's. This is all the Vikings and Governor are asking for. A full legislature vote once and for all.

Of course there are reports the final bill may not include improvements for Target Center. If it doesn't, it's likely the Minneapolis city council may not support the bill and it could die there.

Gonna be a huge run on diapers in St. Paul if Roger has to lean on the legislators one more time. Will they allow him to sit in the gallery and take notes on how people vote, for ease of later identification?

Maybe the Sargeant-at-Arms could just hand each legislator as he walks in a picture of his home and children taken by NFL operatives?

If it doesn't, it's likely the Minneapolis city council may not support the bill and it could die there.

Minneapolis City Council votes 7-6 for Vikings stadium plan
http://www.startribune.com/politics/statelocal/148787865.html

Gonna be a huge run on diapers in St. Paul if Roger has to lean on the legislators one more time. Will they allow him to sit in the gallery and take notes on how people vote, for ease of later identification?

Maybe the Sargeant-at-Arms could just hand each legislator as he walks in a picture of his home and children taken by NFL operatives?
Is this why Goodell enjoys the pin-striped suits so much?

Is this why Goodell enjoys the pin-striped suits so much?

I mean seriously, the man has to run from Minn to SD to Oakland to STL to J'ville "non-threatening" each of them about the "serious consequences" of not packing up huge buckets of money and handing it to the local sports billionaires. Not as easy a job as you might think, convincing 5 cities that all of their teams are moving to LA.

I mean seriously, the man has to run from Minn to SD to Oakland to STL to J'ville "non-threatening" each of them about the "serious consequences" of not packing up huge buckets of money and handing it to the local sports billionaires. Not as easy a job as you might think, convincing 5 cities that all of their teams are moving to LA.
I'm not arguing with you. I just think that at some times the whole situation is ridiculous.

Right now, in the back of my mind, I'm thinking the Jags are going to be the ones moving to LA. Which could easily change. Last year at this time I was convinced it would be the Chargers, but they were moving to CoI.

I really don't see the Jaguars moving.... I really don't.

At least, not to L.A. and not anytime soon.

I really don't see the Jaguars moving.... I really don't.

At least, not to L.A. and not anytime soon.

Any time a franchise has to put tarps over seats to lower the seating capacity and they still have a hard time selling out games in the NFL is reason to worry. The Jaguars better start drawing fans or they might have no choice but to relocate and Los Angeles, California has much greater potential than Jacksonville Florida.