R1,7bn facelift for Sandton City
Company announcement
05 August 2008

Africa's best-known retail property set for refurbishment.

Liberty Properties Development - a division of Liberty Properties Group - announces a R1,77 billion refurbishment of the landmark Sandton City Complex, the most iconic retail facilities in Africa and the Southern Hemisphere. This initiative comprises a 30 000m² extension which will take the complex to a massive 158 000m² gross lettable area. The Sandton City complex is owned by Liberty Properties (75%) and Pareto Limited (25%).

CEO of Liberty Properties Development, Caswell Rampheri, says this enormous project has been three and a half years in the making. "It will entrench the Sandton City Complex as Gauteng's premier shopping destination and enable it to support the significant development and growth seen in this area, coming particularly from new residences and the construction of the Sandton Gautrain station.

"The retail extension will accommodate our existing key retail tenants such as Woolworths, Truworths, Edcon and the Foschini Group, which have for some time been requesting additional space, as well as numerous enquiries from other local and international retailers.

"The project will enhance shareholder and policyholder value by ensuring Sandton City remains relevant and can continue in its position as the unrivalled shopping destination for local and international consumers."

Rampheri says the refurbishment and improvements are in line with the broader vision of the Johannesburg Municipality for Sandton, which is to create a pedestrian friendly neighbourhood, a residential housing offering for differing income levels and promote a mindset of ‘work, live, shop and play'.

The interior refurbishment includes introducing more natural light and internal landscaping with ‘green' touches, and the brightening of the parking areas, as close on 1 000 additional parking bays will be constructed. Southern Sun's Sandton Sun hotel lobby will be refurbished to include more dining areas and a rooftop restaurant with views of the city. Throughout the complex there will be an all round improvement in security, through the installation of state of the art surveillance equipment.

The project also includes structural elements aimed at improving customer flow and movement by connecting the entire mall, which means completing the loop between Woolworths at one end and Edgars at the other. Connections between upper and lower levels will be more streamlined, access and vehicle flow will be improved and the complex will be further integrated, through easier access, with the Sandton Convention Centre, Nelson Mandela Square and the broader Sandton area.

The refurbishment extends to the replacement of tiles, ceilings, bulkheads, columns and lighting. Out-of-date capital equipment such as lifts, escalators, air-conditioning, parking equipment and building management systems will also be replaced and a key component of the project is improving electrical back up power to counteract future shortages of electricity.

Other value-add customer services will include child care facilities, refined customer services desks and gift vouchers, mother and child parking, and customer friendly signage, amenities and pause areas. The revamped complex should not only attract more shoppers, but should see them staying longer.

Rampheri says that international London-based RTKL Associates- an award winning global practice of architects, planners, engineers and design consultants - have been chosen as the complex designers based on their bold approach and comprehensive understanding of retail. RTKL are designers of the Beijing International Sports and Exhibition Center, which will house the 2008 Olympic Games. They have also designed The Gateway Shopping Centre in Umhlanga, Durban and are the designers for the new Twin Towers precinct in New York.

The refurbishment will contribute significantly to job creation and BEE development. It will commence end of 2008 and is scheduled for completion early 2012.

The main construction contract has not yet been awarded and is in the tender stage, and will include a 60% BEE participation target with mandatory use of SME and joint venture BEE entities to ensure skills transfer. The work schedule will accommodate the expected increase of visitors during the 2010 World Cup.

Rampheri says the refurbishment is the first step in a much broader vision for Sandton City and Sandton which ideally would include the construction of a new office tower, an additional hotel and increased residential housing, further extending the Sandton City retail offering alongside structural strengthening of the existing complex, revamping its external facade as well as that of the existing office tower, and reconfiguring the hotel malls. "We have broad vision and high aspirations for this enduring landmark."

Time to start sourcing those pics, renders and additional news! :) This is a great day for Sandton. The grand old lady of SA shopping centres was looking a little too-close to retirement. Now, she sees her "plastic surgeon" and will be shiny, new and perfect Doll! :lol:

I wish they could do something about the current office tower...

http://llnw.creamermedia.co.za/articles/images/resized/49262_resized_picture_7.png

Engineering News - they refer to the planned 80F tower... obviously this would form part of phase 14 of the project... they should stop playing with my soul.

By: Christy van der Merwe
Published: 5 Aug 08 - 18:00
The fourth quarter of 2008 would see northern Johannesburg’s Sandton City begin its transformation, as the R1,77-billion first phase of the ‘masterplan’, which includes refurbishment of the existing centre, addition of 30 000 m2 of new retail space, improved access and additional parking bays, gets under way.

Liberty Properties property development MD Caswell Rampheri told Engineering News Online that the professional team of contractors that would be responsible for the development was being finalised, and the tender would be awarded and announced within a month.

In February 2007, London-based RTKL Associates, a global practice of architects, planners, engineers and design consultants, were chosen as the complex designers. RTKL were the designers of the Beijing International Sports and Exhibition Center, which will house the 2008 Olympic Games, as well as designed the Gateway Shopping Centre in Umhlanga, and are the designers for the new Twin Towers precinct in New York.

Refurbishment and extension of the mall was the first of three phases, and the second and third phases would include the construction of a new 80-storey office tower, an additional hotel and increased residential housing, further extending the Sandton City retail offering alongside structural strengthening of the existing complex, revamping its external facade as well as that of the existing office tower, and reconfiguring the hotel malls. “We have broad vision and high aspirations for this enduring landmark,” said Rampheri.

Liberty Properties hoped to have 95% of the construction complete by the time the 2010 FIFA World Cup took place, when construction would be stopped temporarily to accommodate the increased number of visitors. By April 2011, it was expected that the project would be entirely complete.

Liberty Properties said that the reason for refurbishment was that after research and consultations, the shopping centre was perceived as “dark and tired”, and had to be modernised to keep up with the increasing competition, as well as the fact that there was significant demand from local and global retailers to have their flagship stores in Sandton City.

The interior refurbishment includes introducing more natural light and internal landscaping with ‘green’ touches, and the brightening of the parking areas, as close on 1 000 additional parking bays would be constructed.

Southern Sun’s Sandton Sun hotel lobby would be refurbished to include more dining areas and a rooftop restaurant with views of the city. Throughout the complex there will be an improvement in security, through the installation of surveillance equipment.

The first phase of the project also includes structural elements aimed at improving customer flow and movement by connecting the entire mall, which means completing the loop between Woolworths at one end and Edgars at the other. Connections between upper and lower levels will be more streamlined, access and vehicle flow will be improved and the complex will be further integrated, through easier access, with the Sandton Convention Centre, Nelson Mandela Square and the broader Sandton area.

The refurbishment would extend to the replacement of tiles, ceilings, bulkheads, columns and lighting. Out-of-date capital equipment such as lifts, escalators, air-conditioning, parking equipment and building management systems would also be replaced, and a key component of the project was improving electrical back up power to counteract future shortages of electricity.

Rampheri said that a key driver in the project managers brief was that as much of the refurbishment work as possible should be done outside of shopping hours so as to cause minimal disruption to store owners and shoppers. “We don’t want to kill our cash cow,” added Rampheri.

Sandton City is owned 75% by Liberty Properties and 25% by Pareto

As part of the project 5th Street will be pedestrianised but not the whole of it. There will be retail that connects those four other buildings with the 4 towers. We have been complaining about the green space in Sandton and that's what they mainly focusing on now.

I hope when the 80 Story tower is completed, NatGeo will show us as to how the tallest building in Africa is built.

^^ It seems like the existing office tower will be upgraded in phase 2 after the World Cup. Although, I do wish, such 80 storey projects would be mooted in the Jo'burg CBD rather than Sandton to be honest. I want the urban structure of Jo'burg metro to become "real" again, where Sandton becomes an auxiliary CBD, with the CBD proper reassuming its position as Gauteng's heart.

http://llnw.creamermedia.co.za/articles/images/resized/49262_resized_picture_7.png

If you look at the pic you will notice a couple of things.

1. Bottom left - the Sandton Sun - apparently with new cladding...
2. 2nd tower left - revamped sandton office buildings, those on the t-junction of maude and 5th
3. Sandton city office block with new cladding... the third building
4. Top left - new 80F office block
5. On the right you can see the residential blocks that are built on top of the current parking lot.

80F? Bring it on.

Does anyone know were the Rea Vaya Stations will be located in Sandton?

Actually the 2nd phase includes the 80F office block.

1. Bottom left - the Sandton Sun - apparently with new cladding...


Yes, I can confirm that.

2. 2nd tower left - revamped sandton office buildings, those on the t-junction of maude and 5th


Correct again.


3. Sandton city office block with new cladding... the third building
Not sure about this one.

4. Top left - new 80F office block
Yip.

5. On the right you can see the residential blocks that are built on top of the current parking lot.
On the spot again and there will be green space with 3 swimming pools.


Currently pedestrians use parking lot entrance when they go into Sandton City but that's gonna be changed totally. There will be nice landscaping and a magnificently designed glass will cover the entrance from the street.

There are some of teh things that they couldn't explain when i asked but they will get back to me.

From that article I'm getting the gist that a few new international retailers will be opening up shop here? I wonder who...

There are a couple that are curiously lacking from the SA market and can think of a couple contenders for space that would suit Sandton. I think DeBeers retail division should set up shop in Sandton, as they have in LA, NYC, Tokyo and London. Zara clothing from Spain should, we lack H&M that is a big deal in Europe and is making waves in the USA now. We should have dedicated Gap Store here now from San Francisco and hopefully FCUK from England. Perhaps Jimmy Choo and Lilywhites will make open an additional store (after the CT Waterfront)? It could be nice to see Abercrombie & Fitch here, but they have failed to expand much out of the USA thusfar (couple stores in London & Canada), so doubt it.

From that article I'm getting the gist that a few new international retailers will be opening up shop here? I wonder who...

That's what I asked but no names mentioned as yet. The other good news is that Sandton is focusing on creating High Street Shopping instead of always going into Nelson Mandela Square and/or Sandton City.

At the top floor of the 80 story there will be trees. Its seems like it will just be a green space. They say that the reason why they had to change the looks of Sandton City is that it felt so enclosed and people wanted to feel as if they are outside even if they are in a mall and the glass will direct the light into the building.

There are a couple that are curiously lacking from the SA market and can think of a couple contenders for space that would suit Sandton. I think DeBeers retail division should set up shop in Sandton, as they have in LA, NYC, Tokyo and London. Zara clothing from Spain should, we lack H&M that is a big deal in Europe and is making waves in the USA now. We should have dedicated Gap Store here now from San Francisco and hopefully FCUK from England. Perhaps Jimmy Choo and Lilywhites will make open an additional store (after the CT Waterfront)? It could be nice to see Abercrombie & Fitch here, but they have failed to expand much out of the USA thusfar (couple stores in London & Canada), so doubt it.

Lillywhites and Promod (french) are opening all over now, so maybe will be, but they nothing to rave about. They both opening in that new Westville centre.

Regards the 80F tower, maybe its just me, but why so high? it will look crazy out of place. i like proportion, mayb i the only one...i dunno

But this is a great redevelopment and much needed

^^ That's why the 80storeys concerns we, it will look like this giant 350m spire jutting out of a 100m-150m mass. That's why I so badly want to see this stuff in Jozi CBD proper. Could you imagine gleaming new 50storey to 80storey towers alongside Carton Centre in Marshalltown, would be awesome there, much needed and very "in place"!

I want this reaction upon people seeing Jo'burg, "Wow, what a gorgeous gleaming skyline, I can see this is the economic juggernaut of Africa!" Not, "Oh, the skyline looks so 60's, what happened to it, what is that mass of tall buildings in the distance?"

I grant Sandton its every happiness, but I desperately want the enthusiasm to spread where it is needed and sustainable. Sandton is not an ideal CBD in Gauteng; The freeway networks, rail networks and bulk infrastructure was built to suit Jo'burg's CBD at Marshalltown, Newtown, Braamfontein and Hillbrow. I want Sandton City upgraded, but I don't want Sandton developing at the expense of the actual CBD (as they are making progress and investors should notice) and creating a massive CBD there is not sustainable to the urban fabric of Jozi.

Just my 10cents! :)

Well, the Burj in Dubai does look a little bigger than the towers around it you must admit :D

^^ the new one? i bloody hate it

Guess it's a matter of opinion. I think it looks quite cool actually. Though it will get a little ridiculous if the Al Burj is built, which is double the size of the Burj (hope I'm getting the names right and not swapping them around or anything. But you get the point).

Regards the 80F tower, maybe its just me, but why so high? it will look crazy out of place. i like proportion, mayb i the only one...i dunno


It might be complemented by 60-70 stories with time. Like Spinnaker, it is so damn lonely but with time neighbours will be welcomed. ;)

It might be complemented by 60-70 stories with time. Like Spinnaker, it is so damn lonely but with time neighbours will be welcomed. ;)

This is what we here all over... the seers (at that stage 40f) was going to look out of place. the michaelangelo towers (33F) is out of place. Yet a 40f in ballito will look stunning? The new Calatrava tower in Chicago (150F) is also big. Same with the 100F Trump Plaza. And I am sure the Sears Tower looked big as well. Sandton has density - and it will only increase. Office space is going to double.

You have the 20F Sandton Sun that will be redeveloped. The 33F Michaelangelo. The 20something Sandton Tower. The 38F 75 on Maude. The 30F Radisson. The Park Hotel. The Office block on top of the Gautrain Station. Alice lane. etc. etc. So must we fill the skyline with 208 20F blocks before moving on to 30F? By that time we wont have any land left for development. A lot of cities have buildings that are disproportially tall in relation to the others.

with this reasoning the spinnaker must have been only 10f until we had some more density in point. It is 3 times higher than anything close to it - why is that so special?

^^ That's why the 80storeys concerns we, it will look like this giant 350m spire jutting out of a 100m-150m mass. That's why I so badly want to see this stuff in Jozi CBD proper. Could you imagine gleaming new 50storey to 80storey towers alongside Carton Centre in Marshalltown, would be awesome there, much needed and very "in place"!

It would definately be a WOW to see Carlton Center receiving upgrades such as the one recived by Sandton City but for now it will just be a dream as investors with lost of moola are still heading North.



^^ I want this reaction upon people seeing Jo'burg, "Wow, what a gorgeous gleaming skyline, I can see this is the economic juggernaut of Africa!" Not, "Oh, the skyline looks so 60's, what happened to it, what is that mass of tall buildings in the distance?"

I think the Jozi CBD's skyline is quite cool but I belive taht it will look much better if most buildings can receive the same refurb as Sandton City. The fact that it looks so sicxties doesn't botgher me much but I'm more concerned with streets being walkable and for it being 27/7 city. New developments will come with time and even if we don't get that 80 Story it will still be fine as long as there is a vibe in the CBD.

^^ I grant Sandton its every happiness, but I desperately want the enthusiasm to spread where it is needed and sustainable. Sandton is not an ideal CBD in Gauteng; The freeway networks, rail networks and bulk infrastructure was built to suit Jo'burg's CBD at Marshalltown, Newtown, Braamfontein and Hillbrow. I want Sandton City upgraded, but I don't want Sandton developing at the expense of the actual CBD (as they are making progress and investors should notice) and creating a massive CBD there is not sustainable to the urban fabric of Jozi.

Just my 10cents! :)

With investment in BRT and Gautrain, Sandton will come right. Lets wait and see how the whole of Jozi (Sandton, Rosebank and the CBD) will look like when investors starts pumping money in developeing the 10/20 story buildings along Oxford road.

I'm a great fanatic of Hillbrow and believe that investors could do more but we still got years to go and one day we will say that "we never thought that our city will look like this".

I believe that the succesfull hosting of 2010 will actually help in bringing more investment into the country which will possibly result in our dreams being realised.

ABSA is busy with its offie towers, FNB is also currently busy and we just waiting for confirmation from Neil Fraser about Standard Bank constructing office block in the CBD and those are just banks.

And one fact? If this was a proposed (and read, the block is only proposed) office block for durban, it could have been in the middle of the sugarcane fields and people would have been ready to give it a standing ovation. Give the joburgers time to enjoy some of the juicy gossip that is being tossed our way.

In the end we will be most dissapointed when the 80F falls through, and then durban, cape town and potchefstroom can continue celebrating 9F buildings.

Hooray hooray! This is long overdue. :applause:

Hooray hooray! This is long overdue. :applause:

I suppose you are referring to the actual Sandton City upgrade, and not the intra-city animosity?

... durban, cape town and potchefstroom can continue celebrating 9F buildings.

:lol:

and then durban, cape town and potchefstroom can continue celebrating 9F buildings.

Not for long :cheers:

Sandton is like a baby and its still crawling. Much more is still to come, just watch the space. Soon the 2 to 5 floors will give ways to constructions like this one.


We tend to forget that 75 on Maude was supposed to be a 64 stories but the municipality is blocking it, so that means some 64 floors will come Sandton's way and the 80 floors giant will never be lonely.

I hope I will still be alive in the year 2020 when Durban and CT start building 40 stories and Jozi building 100+ stories ;) JK

I suppose you are referring to the actual Sandton City upgrade, and not the intra-city animosity?

Correct, yes. I am referring to the upgrade.

But I will tell you one thing Jakes, I cannot agree with you more!
When a building's height is confirmed, it takes forever to have the thread's name changed... but someone mentions the fact that the Seers on Maude has dropped in height, it is as if SOME people rush to find their f---ing mobile phone if they have to, just to update it.
I am sick and tired of this bullshit of hearing "oh my, that will be totally out of proportion...". WTF??? Well sorry, but Joburg is the city of big dreams, big money and hopefully BIG buildings. You could probably build a tower with a lift that goes to heaven and have all the angels coming down on Saturdays to go shopping at some stupid Durban or Umhlanga mall, and that will be okay... but oh please dont build anything over 40 floors in Sandton, coz it just wont look right...
Can you imagine if they HAD to approve the Seers on Maude to go to 64F?? My god, it would probably be declared a day or mourning... but probably not nearly as bad as the day the Gautrain opens... the forums will probably be shut for a week so we can get over the shock.

Grow up.

Not for long :cheers:


Oh yes, I forgot. Cape Town is now allowed to build buildings no taller than 60m...

Sjoe, thats high.

Just having a bit of fun with this whole thing... But really, a 34F is cape town is celebrated, yet a 38F in Sandton is deemed out of proportion (with its neighbour being 33F)???? A city would look really stupid if all the buildings where the same height.

In the end we will be most dissapointed when the 80F falls through, and then durban, cape town and potchefstroom can continue celebrating 9F buildings.
Well, not as of yesterday anymore... Cape Town is revising its height restrictions to suit Portside, Adderley-on-Strand and others... YAY US!!! But, yes, this is the price we pay being on Skyscrapercity, we get the development news fast, but because of that, we also hear the "original dream plan," then also get the, "not possible, city won't allow, money won't allow" stuff first too. We pay the price of being TOO well informed :)

Oh yes, I forgot. Cape Town is now allowed to build buildings no taller than 60m...

Sjoe, thats high.

Just having a bit of fun with this whole thing... But really, a 34F is cape town is celebrated, yet a 38F in Sandton is deemed out of proportion (with its neighbour being 33F)???? A city would look really stupid if all the buildings where the same height.

Don't come across as if I said anything bad about this development. Quite the opposite actually.

And as of yesterday, as Annman mentioned, the height restrictions are being reviewed due to a number of new tall buildings being proposed. Secondly, we all know that the reason for strict height restrictions in the Cape are because of tall buildings interfering with views, among other things.

Lastly, I completely agree with you. It would indeed look stupid.

This Thread wins the award for "Fastest Growing!" Yay me... thanks to Pule's news and suggestions and my opening it, this thread is growing faster than Paris Hilton's ego!!!

I just love this thread, its the best ever :lol:

I'm still aghast... all i can say is, yay :)

This is going to be an awesome development to follow!! Just wish they could start working on the 80f before 2010 so the whole world can see it rising :)

Hope something like this will come Cape Town's way!

^^Are you kidding, we just got the city council to break the 34storey barrier... we'll need some more divine intervention for that... and for a place like Century City to up their height restrictions!

This is what we here all over... the seers (at that stage 40f) was going to look out of place. the michaelangelo towers (33F) is out of place. Yet a 40f in ballito will look stunning? The new Calatrava tower in Chicago (150F) is also big. Same with the 100F Trump Plaza. And I am sure the Sears Tower looked big as well. Sandton has density - and it will only increase. Office space is going to double.

You have the 20F Sandton Sun that will be redeveloped. The 33F Michaelangelo. The 20something Sandton Tower. The 38F 75 on Maude. The 30F Radisson. The Park Hotel. The Office block on top of the Gautrain Station. Alice lane. etc. etc. So must we fill the skyline with 208 20F blocks before moving on to 30F? By that time we wont have any land left for development. A lot of cities have buildings that are disproportially tall in relation to the others.

with this reasoning the spinnaker must have been only 10f until we had some more density in point. It is 3 times higher than anything close to it - why is that so special?

There's nothing special about the Spinnaker and i myself think it looks odd on its own. but i still stick by what i said, by all means go for 50/60F, but 80? to me its out of place and will further kill downtown as that will be a mighty clear signal that business only wants sandton.

If i the only one thinking that so be it, but too large for the area is something i dont like

And one fact? If this was a proposed (and read, the block is only proposed) office block for durban, it could have been in the middle of the sugarcane fields and people would have been ready to give it a standing ovation.

But I will tell you one thing Jakes, I cannot agree with you more!
When a building's height is confirmed, it takes forever to have the thread's name changed... but someone mentions the fact that the Seers on Maude has dropped in height, it is as if SOME people rush to find their f---ing mobile phone if they have to, just to update it.
I am sick and tired of this bullshit of hearing "oh my, that will be totally out of proportion...". WTF??? Well sorry, but Joburg is the city of big dreams, big money and hopefully BIG buildings. You could probably build a tower with a lift that goes to heaven and have all the angels coming down on Saturdays to go shopping at some stupid Durban or Umhlanga mall, and that will be okay... but oh please dont build anything over 40 floors in Sandton, coz it just wont look right...
Can you imagine if they HAD to approve the Seers on Maude to go to 64F?? My god, it would probably be declared a day or mourning... but probably not nearly as bad as the day the Gautrain opens... the forums will probably be shut for a week so we can get over the shock.

Grow up.

Nice very nice...

I think people have to realize that a building >20 floors (im being optimistic) will not be built in the downtown CBD for many years. We are just starting to see the fruits of old dilapidated buildings being brought back to life, and this will continue until most if not all of the CBD has been returned to it's former self, and only then will a consideration even be made to start building there again.

Until that happens Sandton is the new CBD, and it only has room to grow. I think driving to Joburg and seeing the old Jozi skyline next to the sparkling new one won't be such a bad thing. Considering they will both be connected by the Gautrain, they are infact not far at all. Who knows maybe one day the gap will be bridged by even more scrapers and will become a continuous entity. But for now Sandton is going super high rise, it's inevitable

This looks fantastic - I wish that we had bigger renders and more details. I love the glass towers but question those finger like projections of low-rise "commie blocks" .... I sure hope that the 80 storey tower comes along in a hurry :) Well done Sandton :cheers:

I am sick and tired of this bullshit of hearing "oh my, that will be totally out of proportion...". WTF??? Well sorry, but Joburg is the city of big dreams, big money and hopefully BIG buildings. You could probably build a tower with a lift that goes to heaven and have all the angels coming down on Saturdays to go shopping at some stupid Durban or Umhlanga mall, and that will be okay... but oh please dont build anything over 40 floors in Sandton, coz it just wont look right...
Can you imagine if they HAD to approve the Seers on Maude to go to 64F?? My god, it would probably be declared a day or mourning... but probably not nearly as bad as the day the Gautrain opens... the forums will probably be shut for a week so we can get over the shock. Grow up.

:lol: You guys still have it easy in South Africa. Here everybody gets the opportunity to say how they feel (90% are nimby's) and then it goes back to the city council where after it goes for public consultation again and then back to the city council. The red tape is unbelievable.

The 67 storey apartment tower for Auckland's CBD has finally been approved but only after some loooooong battle. The idiots complained that the building will cast a shadow over their office tower and Sky Tower complained that it will spoil their views and radio signals - as if they own the sky :lol: Another example is The Saffron - a 46 storey apartment tower for the CBD .... the church is taking the developers to the environmental court because - and wait for it - it will cast a shadow over the church.

You guys have it very, very easy there :) If only it could be that easy here :cheers: .... I will watch this develop with great interest.

http://llnw.creamermedia.co.za/articles/images/resized/49262_resized_picture_7.png

woweee!!

...to me its out of place and will further kill downtown as that will be a mighty clear signal that business only wants sandton...



I understand were you coming from Mike, I mean look at how shitty Durban CBD looks like and check Umhlanga is a bling. But the fortunate part is that Jozi is not operating in the same scale as the Durbs do, Masondo is investing lots and lots of money investing money and he has managed to work with the private sector to invest and the CBD is growing business wise and the growing black middle class will keep the Jozi CBD alive.

But I guess for noe we have to celebrate the soon to be the tallest skyscraper in Africa, by the way its not like its in another country. I remember we were all, as SAfricans, heart broken when San Raphael was canned so I guess its time for all of us to celebrate this new child to be born.

Can we please stop throwing stones at eahc other and behave as South Africans but Mike we have elected you to be the Admin so please when we ask you for something please do unlike being proactive in changing threads when the projects are cancelled. As Waltjie said, lets grow up.

I hope that CT City council will approve construction of at least 60 story buildings as that will definately change the looks of CT totally. With Dubai interests in the City, it will be very interesting to see the kinds of developments that will mushroom in the city.

lol, apart from the low blows to each city, this development rocks, overtakes Seers & Portside.

Joburg CBD has a new spot... It is impossible for all the big businesses to move back. The stock exchange will stay in sandton, as will all the new hotels... Why?

Because this will remain the first stop of the gautrain, making it very easy for international travellers to get to.

The CBD? The banks remain, as do the mining companies. All of them are investing heavily in the CBD. As for the rest? Small businesses looking for office space, government departments, NGOs (they just looooooove braamfontein), creative industries - in short, anyone that needs to be central, but that cannot afford to sit in a gold covered super expensive posh office suite in sandton. So we see advertising agencies, attorney firms, civil society and the like in the johannesburg cbd.

Sandton, as a decentralised node, is perfectly situated for mega developments. And pule is right, by gautrain it is a short jump to the cbd. And in between you have rosebank, MELROSE, killarney etc. All up and coming decentralised nodes.

the higher sandton goes now the higher joburg cbd will go in 10 years time. even manhattan has two highrise clusters. they grow in cycles.

^^ I hope they both will, because I don't know how many of the people here have studied "urban theory" at university? But I do know, you can see which node is most accessible by simply looking at a "map studio" street plan of Jo'burg. The Gautrain will definitely help Sandton (the airport link would've met at Marlboro regardless, as it is the JHB-PTA line's closest point to ORTIA there), but one tends to also forget, bulk infrastructure is also water/sewage etc. The traditional CBD was seen as Jo'burg's hub from the offset of the creation of Johannesburg. Freeway networks were built to radiate from it, rail networks had Park Station as it's hub, bulk infrastructure was built to support a massive commercial district. We cannot deny that. We also cannot deny that Sandton is the upmarket commercial hub for now. But, Grayston Drive and William Nicol is no substitute for the DeVilliers Graaff Motorway or the M2, what lies underground, the sewage and water mains, have been a concern for Sandton for a while. They were originally designed for a residential node, not a commercial one. Looking at a city, is not looking at one section of it and raving about it. Johannesburg is not currently functioning at optimum levels as an urban unit. In any city, when its core remains underutilised, it creates massive development headaches and knock-on problems. I've seen it in cities in America that have degraded from the core outwards, causing massive decentralisation and sprawl. Sandton is indeed here to stay and the Jo'burg CBD is definitely making strides, but for anyone to say the Sandton is the "ideal" CBD location, is more in love with the idea of gleaming high-rises and not looking at the holistic urban fabric of Gauteng.

Johannesburg CBD has the same infrastructure woes as sandton. Way too little parking - the ratios are crazy, and it is much easier to park in Sandton than in Joburg. Aging infrastructure plagues the CBD, but they are working on this. CBD traffic is just as bad, if not worse! Have you tried to get on the M2 or M1!

Joburg will have more decentralised densified nodes: the CBD is by no means the prime. Rosebank, Killarney, Fourways, Sunninghill, Randburg, Sandton, Hyde Park - all identified for densification.

This project is the best news ever!!!

This project is the best news ever!!!

Depending on where you live... Of course johannesburg is the only south african city that has problems with a declining CBD and decentralised nodes.

Guys we sem to be getting very aggressive/emotional over a project that probably wont happen. Office rents combined with building costs make a 80f building in Sandont simply unviable. Its sad but true.

Coupled with the fact that quite a few companies are actually downsizing in Joburg and upgrading in cape town due to the fact that there is a skills exodus from Joburg at the moment (and hedge funds/investment firms/law firms are not going to be able to get or retain their staff in Joburg) means that I cant see the need for such vast office buildings in Sandton. If anywhere needs an 80f building in the next 5 years it is going to be CT CBD not Sandton. Joburg will not retain its financial capital status forever due to the fact that highly skilled people simply do not want to live there.

Guys we sem to be getting very aggressive/emotional over a project that probably wont happen. Office rents combined with building costs make a 80f building in Sandont simply unviable. Its sad but true.

Coupled with the fact that quite a few companies are actually downsizing in Joburg and upgrading in cape town due to the fact that there is a skills exodus from Joburg at the moment (and hedge funds/investment firms/law firms are not going to be able to get or retain their staff in Joburg) means that I cant see the need for such vast office buildings in Sandton. If anywhere needs an 80f building in the next 5 years it is going to be CT CBD not Sandton. Joburg will not retain its financial capital status forever due to the fact that highly skilled people simply do not want to live there.

An 80F is a long shot - I agree. On the other hand, give more examples of companies downsizing in joburg.

Some facts regarding Sandton:

Current office space: 1,2million m2
Under construction (next 3years): 600 000m2
Hotels under construction: Holiday Inn (12F), Legacy Corner (12F), Radisson (29F), Park (20F+)

Good to see attorneys downsizing with an 18F office block. Same to be said of Nedbank (6F), Investec (12F), RMB (6F) and ABSA (8F) in the area!

Other buildings?
The 500million Rand 1 Sandton Place (9F) - more going up next to this one
Sunset Towers (12F)
Jade (9F)
Topaz (9F)
Inner Circle (17F)
Regent (13F)

Current office vacancy in Sandton? 2.9%

Yes, clearly sandton is on the way down. Major infrastructure investments - sewage, power and roads - add to this highways and BRT. an 80F might be wishful thinking, but the fact remains that Sandton is the heartbeat of the country.

If anywhere needs an 80f building in the next 5 years it is going to be CT CBD not Sandton. Joburg will not retain its financial capital status forever due to the fact that highly skilled people simply do not want to live there.

LOL... ROF...!!!

Would be good to be provided with a list of all the headquarters that closed down in Johannesburg upon moving to Cape Town.

Some facts regarding Sandton:

Current office space: 1,2million m2
Under construction (next 3years): 600 000m2
Hotels under construction: Holiday Inn (12F), Legacy Corner (12F), Radisson (29F), Park (20F+)

Good to see attorneys downsizing with an 18F office block. Same to be said of Nedbank (6F), Investec (12F), RMB (6F) and ABSA (8F) in the area!

Other buildings?
The 500million Rand 1 Sandton Place (9F) - more going up next to this one
Sunset Towers (12F)
Jade (9F)
Topaz (9F)
Inner Circle (17F)
Regent (13F)

Current office vacancy in Sandton? 2.9%

Yes, clearly sandton is on the way down. Major infrastructure investments - sewage, power and roads - add to this highways and BRT. an 80F might be wishful thinking, but the fact remains that Sandton is the heartbeat of the country.

Jakes, clearly there is a an obvious massive downward trend here that we just cannot see... I have two colleagues, and two close friends who have all moved to Joburg from Cape Town within the last 7 months. They have obviously made a HUGE mistake! :lol:

I really want this to happen, crossing fingers. Dont want more heart ache with projects being scrapped.

^^ Aghem... I do not think CT CBD will EVER see a 80f building. Sorry to burst any Capetonian bubbles, but it will not happen, the most we will see is 300m, but that is about as far as they'll push it. Once building starts encroaching on the height of Signal Hill, City Council, Heritage and Historic councils and Capetonians themselves will go into riot mode. I'm not saying Century City, Strand or Bellville area could up their heights in the distant future, but as in European cities, like London or Paris, Cape Town central's heights will get capped due to the scenery and historic value. The only chance is having a decentalised "Canary Wharf" or "La Defence" type skyscraper node. CT CBD is not going to get too much higher.

Plus, I think we will see more niche industry movement towards Cape Town and some high-tech companies, but I do not think we should elude ourselves into believing Jo'burg and Sandton for that matter will loose its Financial Capital status in the next 50-100years. It will take more of a national tragedy/disaster to push the banking giants and huge financial corporations out of Gauteng. JSE is there... that is where the big financial companies need to be.

Jozi is SA's New York, Cape Town is SA's San Francisco

Oh sorry... that is 3 colleagues (and their spouses).

Jakes, clearly there is a an obvious massive downward trend here that we just cannot see... I have two colleagues, and two close friends who have all moved to Joburg from Cape Town within the last 7 months. They have obviously made a HUGE mistake! :lol:

Well, we just CLOSED our cape town office. Oops. And sorry to ABSA for its R1,5billion inner city development, and its R500million sandton one! FNB is sitting with R800million next to the N1, and another new block going up next to Bank City in the CBD. Reitz Attorneys? 18F Alice Towers... Sorry, Melrose Arch, two 5star hotels and a 4star might be a mistake - as is the rest of the R2billion Piazza! the R25billion Gautrain is a sign of economic decline. So is the BRT. Radisson, Ritz Carlton, Legacy, Holiday Inn - all making mistakes. Coca-Cola made a mistake. As did Zurich and all of the other international offices...

Well, we just CLOSED our cape town office. Oops. And sorry to ABSA for its R1,5billion inner city development, and its R500million sandton one! FNB is sitting with R800million next to the N1, and another new block going up next to Bank City in the CBD. Reitz Attorneys? 18F Alice Towers... Sorry, Melrose Arch, two 5star hotels and a 4star might be a mistake - as is the rest of the R2billion Piazza! the R25billion Gautrain is a sign of economic decline. So is the BRT. Radisson, Ritz Carlton, Legacy, Holiday Inn - all making mistakes. Coca-Cola made a mistake. As did Zurich and all of the other international offices...

Jakes... let's not forget the massive mistake SAA has made to withdraw their CPT-FRA flights and to increase their JNB-FRA/MUC. This must be the clearest indicator of them all that things in Jozi are going down the drain. Eeeeck!

Not to fuel the arguments but had to post this in addition to what Jakes said.


NAME: 1 Station Place
TYPE: Mixed use / hotel / retail / office - commercial
SIZE: The total development will be ±40 000m².
6 underground floors for parking (343 parking bays); 3 floors of retail (±7 000m²); 3 floors of offices (7 000m²); 5 floors of a 5 star hotel (170 rooms); above that 13 floors of offices


NAME: 3 Sandown Valley Cres
TYPE: Commercial
SIZE:14,000m2

NAME: RMB Extension, 9 Fredman Drive
TYPE: Space for RMB
SIZE:Not yet concluded

NAME: Old ABSA building off Fredman
TYPE: Commercial
SIZE: 16,000m2 for the combined firm.

NAME: Sandhurst Office Park
TYPE: Commercial
SIZE: 14 000m2

NAME: Norwich Close Cnr 5th / Grayston
TYPE: Commercial
SIZE: Size to be confirmed

NAME: Sandton Quarter – Cnr West & Rivonia (old Chadrian Place)
TYPE: Mixed Use
SIZE: 40 000m2 Hotel / office / residential 450 units

NAME: Weston Hotel
TYPE: Hotel
SIZE: No info as yet

NAME: Ritz Carlton
TYPE: Hotel
SIZE: No info as yet

:D

http://www-za.sandton-city.co.za/images/refurbishment/future01.jpg

http://www-za.sandton-city.co.za/images/refurbishment/future04.jpg

http://www-za.sandton-city.co.za/images/refurbishment/future02.jpg

http://www-za.sandton-city.co.za/images/refurbishment/future03.jpg

I can now see from the first render that the original Office Tower is the middle tower, and the tallest tower is completely new

Someone please call Neotel and tell them to stop installing fibre optic cables everywhere across Johannesburg... nobody is going to be using it. Better they take it all to Cape Town.

^^ It's not only Neotel and Sandton municipality will be addressing that too.

Good find Inertia, thanks.

The third tower (second tallest) is def a refurbished sandton city. At least the mall is getting a new lease on life - that is a great start (I mean, R2billion!). And once everyone relocates to oh-so-wonderfullest-most-perfectus cape town - we can use it as social housing. Or a good-ol-glory-days-o-joburg museum.

I am actually intensely excited for this dev, by far the most concrete and important development to happen in Sandton since the Gautrain. I'm hoping construction will start soon and we can see some visible progress by the end of the year.. Maybe they will even start redoing the towers

I am actually intensely excited for this dev, by far the most concrete and important development to happen in Sandton since the Gautrain. I'm hoping construction will start soon and we can see some visible progress by the end of the year.. Maybe they will even start redoing the towers

The towers are a part of the second phase - they actually state that www.sandtoncity.co.za. The one part that I am most unsure about? The 1000 apartments. In the current environment that is extremely unlikely.

Fuckit!!! Just to kill what's been happening...
Guys damn-well enough now. You guys are starting to piss me off with the arguments off the topic... we were discussing the merits of the Sandton City developments and it's impacts on Sandton and Johannesburg, this is relevant. This "my city is better than yours" is primary school.

The SAA argument is bollocks and all the Aviation Thread gurus know that, the CPT-FRA flights were choc-o-block, SAA want's to monopolise S.African skies by forcing all international flights to ORTIA. NO ARGUING THERE... it is true! Sandton and Jozi is the economic hub of Africa... it is TRUE! Cape Town is attracting niche industries, it is TRUE! The better lifestyle will always be in Cape Town, the money and job-opportunities will always be better in Joburg, the buildings will always be newer, taller and bigger in Joburg, the lengthy history will always be in Cape Town, Joburg is the Financial Capital of Africa, Cape Town is the scenic capital of Africa...

There are all the truisms... I didn't start this thread for this nonsense. Thanks for putting us back on track Inertia with some awesome renders!!! :)

Now get back to the bloody point! :ohno:

Questions and Answers

Sandton City’s refurbishment and extension

For decades Sandton City has been Johannesburg’s premier retail destination for an inviting shopping environment with its distinctive blend of leading retailers. Liberty Properties are taking this opportunity to reaffirm Sandton City’s role as the nation’s leading place to shop and to raise South Africa’s international retail profile worldwide.
Liberty Properties are proud to unveil their vision for Sandton City and to announce plans to commence with Phase 1, at an initial investment of R1.7 billion which will be the largest investment by Liberty Properties to date on a single property.

Questions and Answers

Why are we doing this development?
Ultimately Liberty Properties’ vision is to re-position Sandton City as the premiere shopping/office/residential node in Africa. Phase one of the vision will include refurbishing the interior of the centre to create a light and contemporary environment with new finishes and design features that reflect South Africa’s rich heritage, adding sophistication, personality and warmth.
The addition of more retail space will add to the already abundant variety, the extra space will also improve the flow through the centre by completing the loop, creating easier navigation for shoppers.
Phase one will also include commencing preparation for phase 2 of the master plan, Liberty’s vision for a mixed use, live/work/play environment, in the heart of Sandton.

What is actually happening?
The total project will be undertaken in phases and will take a number of years to complete.
Phase 1 is split into two elements;
The construction of 30,000m² of new retail space in the South East corner of the site which is currently a level car park
The refurbishment of the existing malls and the introduction of new malls to promote better circulation and access. There will be relocation of some existing tenants into the new space allowing the areas vacated to be re-modeled in order to provide the opportunity to maximize the layout of the existing retail space.
The later phases include plans for a number of residential blocks with over 1000 apartments, a new iconic office tower and the re-cladding of the existing high rise building to match the new aesthetic interior .Additional parking facilities will be added as well as new amenities and access points for the residential and office blocks
To facilitate this existing columns and foundations will have to be strengthened during phase 1.

When will the project start?
Design work commenced in May 2008. The target date for works to commence in the South East corner is quarter four of 2008 but this is subject to a number of variables which have yet to be finalised. Further communication will be circulated when the start date is confirmed.

When will the project finished?
The South East corner construction is planned to be completed mid 2010
The mall interior refurbishment is planned to be completed spring 2011
These dates are dependent upon the start date.

What will happen at the time of the 2010 World Cup?
It is planned that 95% of the work will be complete, and that the interior of the malls will be complete. Construction work will stop during the time of the world cup.

In what phases will the refurbishment take place?
The South East corner will be dealt with as one phase. This will be a separate site which will be fully hoarded off from the public during the works.

The mall refurbishment will be undertaken in sections. The length of the section will be dictated by the location of suitable access points for the construction activity. Typically a 40m length of mall on each level will be refurbished at a time. . The contractor will be given defined areas of work which will be completed and snagging items done before the next section of mall worked on.

What will be the construction hours of work?
There will periods of 24 hour working during the duration of the project. Every effort will be made to schedule noisy or dusty work after trading hours.

Is there enough energy to sustain the development phase and the new extension?
This is currently been finalised with Eskom.

How are we going to use this development to make the most of Gautrain?
A new entrance is being created at entrance 12 which will become a focal point for foot-traffic off Rivonia Road.

How will parking be affected and how are we going to address this?
Parking will be temporarily reduced during construction, but Sandton City currently has over 2000 more existing parking spaces than the regulated guideline of 6 bays per 100m2 the amount of parking will not drop to below this during construction.

How are we going to be effected by noise and how is this going to be managed
Some noise during trading hours will be unavoidable, however as far as possible noisy work will be carried out after trading hours. Noise reduction methods will be employed where possible.

How we going to keep our customers updated?
A marketing team have been commissioned by Liberty Properties to bring in an onsite representatives who will be dedicated to handling the refurbishment and extension communications. A full internal and external marketing and communications plan will be implemented during this period.

Who will have to close or move?
All these stores will be met with individually, the refurbishment will affect everyone as it takes place throughout the mall, but measures will be put in place to minimise the disruption as far as possible. Construction updates will be sent directly to each store as the project progresses.

How are we going to manage dust?
Full height hoardings with dust sheets will enclose the works areas, dust extract ion systems will be employed for particular dust creating activities.

What security measures are we going to put in place during construction?
Additional security personnel will be employed and additional security measures will be implemented on site, these are to include access control with identification for all construction personnel. Security liaison meetings will take place between contractors and centre management.

How are we going to cope with cleaning?
Additional cleaning personnel will be employed during the refurbishment work. Dust control measures will be used during the construction of the South East new build.

What are we doing to minimise the inconvenience to our customers?
The construction areas will be enclosed in full height, sturdy temporary hoardings, that are made aesthetic with paint and visuals displaying store movement information and artist impressions of what is to come. Construction work is intended to take place in the shortest time possible with large, noisy works taking place during night shifts.
Constant communication will take place through the marketing plan and the onsite staff dedicated to refurbishment.

Who will we contact when we have questions, concerns, complaints and suggestions?
A customer information centre dedicated to the project will be set up on the mall for our customers.
In addition a dedicated refurbishment contact telephone line will be set up shortly and the details will be circulated.

Seems that tower construction will only start post 2011, but it does mention that the strengthening of columns for the towers will be done in the 1st phase, so perhaps some preparation will be done pre 2011

I thought capetonians were supposed to be chill? Just for the note - we got excited about the 80F because we live in joburg. So even if it is a big dream, we are still excited. Too many people on this forum get their claws out every time johannesburg builds a tall, or proposes a tall. So if you can't take the heat, stay out of the engineroom.

^^ I was never one of the Capies suggesting that Jo'burg not go tall, I just said 80storeys would be more welcomed in the Jozi CBD (from a needing it, fitting in with current heights etc. perspective) and argued the merits of Sandton vs. Jo'burg CBD's as "best place for skyscrapers." The thing that got me hot under the collar was you and Waltjie getting each other into a "White Shark - Seal Eating frenzy."

I also had a kak day at work, I'm designing shitty buildings right now!!!>( And I hate "city-bashing" because it always goes nowhere but downhill.

Seems that tower construction will only start post 2011, but it does mention that the strengthening of columns for the towers will be done in the 1st phase, so perhaps some preparation will be done pre 2011


Do you know how they plan to build the apartment blocks over the parking lot? Would you not need to have a strong foundation on which to do that? p.s. thanks for the better renders!

They seem to be planning on strenghtening the foundations...

Do you know how they plan to build the apartment blocks over the parking lot? Would you not need to have a strong foundation on which to do that? p.s. thanks for the better renders!

Pleasure, someone noticed :). I'm skeptical about those apartments, but like everything else time will tell. Yes the foundations would indeed have to be strengthened, there is a mention of that happening in the first phase in the FAQ

Well the current market climate will only continue till the end of next year so dont see any problems. Cant wait to shop in that mall when I start working in Joburg in 2013!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the more the merrier. sandton is in south africa and any towers in RSA are welcome.
capies we have R30 billion being pumped into our cbd over the next 3 years, and ideally we'd like the same for the joburg cbd rather than Sandton. I dont think its a joburg vs. cape town issue.

This thread has turned disgustingly childish. Ever heard of the term: "don't feed the troll?" Well that applies here. By going all catty on people you aren't doing any good for yourself. In fact, the thread is much more likely to derail when that happens.

So what if people don't want it to happen? That's their own problem.

the more the merrier. sandton is in south africa and any towers in RSA are welcome.
capies we have R30 billion being pumped into our cbd over the next 3 years, and ideally we'd like the same for the joburg cbd rather than Sandton. I dont think its a joburg vs. cape town issue.
Thanks Mo. That's what I was punting the whole time. I so badly want Jo'burg CBD to get some of that massive kuggel-investor love!!! :lovethem: Don't worry Lydon... looks like that side of this thread is now buried and dead... Don't worry, be happy! :)

Yasis, why all the hate & Jealousy? as Mo said, this is in SA! We should be happy. some people :ohno:

Yasis, why all the hate & Jealousy? as Mo said, this is in SA! We should be happy. some people :ohno:

Exactly my point!

Has anybody in this forum EVER seen either myself, Jakes1, Joburg or Pule say something negative about a development in another city? Have we ever said anything about it being "unneccessary... too high... too expensive... a white elephant..." or anything else like that?? I dont think so. Personally, if I dont like a development proposed for another city, I just wont comment on it.

So forgive us if we get a little uptight when other people have the HABIT of doing the above about the majority of developments in our city.

This is my final ("negative") comment on this.

They say they aim to have most of it complete by 2010, theres a lot of work to be done, I dont see this happening in a year and a half ( & Im not talking about the 80F tower) The shopping center will need alot of work from what I see in the renders, I doubt they planning a full shut down on the place. Any idea on the stages of work? Im not saying it cant be done, but its going to be a push & with alot of the big contractors busy with national work, i.e gautrain, stadiums, etc.. its not going to be easy.

the more the merrier. sandton is in south africa and any towers in RSA are welcome.
capies we have R30 billion being pumped into our cbd over the next 3 years, and ideally we'd like the same for the joburg cbd rather than Sandton. I dont think its a joburg vs. cape town issue.

Well said Mo and a fair comment must not be crushed as per our comment regarding Durbs and the comments that used to made regarding Hillbrow. I would like to see modern skyscrapers coming up in Durbs, CT and Jozi and other multi soty buildings in cities like Bloem, PE and Nelspruit.

As South African forumers we have been the most most democratially minded individuals in bridging the race issue and sexual orientation and we see each other as friends. Why should we be seperated by the success of other places in our own beloved country? Are we proving the fact that we are ill-mannered as South Africans? We are not happy when NIMBYs are blocking some nice developments from going through yet we act in almost the same way of complaining.

Is all these gonna encourage growth in members in SA SSC?

They say they aim to have most of it complete by 2010, theres a lot of work to be done, I dont see this happening in a year and a half ( & Im not talking about the 80F tower) The shopping center will need alot of work from what I see in the renders, I doubt they planning a full shut down on the place. Any idea on the stages of work? Im not saying it cant be done, but its going to be a push & with alot of the big contractors busy with national work, i.e gautrain, stadiums, etc.. its not going to be easy.

I must say the statement is just being too optimistic, I really agree with you DD, 2010 is around teh corner unless, of course, they for shut down the place totally.

^^ It seems that a massive task yes! Do any Capetonians maybe recall how long it took to do the Cavendish Square overhaul in the 90's? It was a similar task that needed to be done, completely change the face of a faded-old-grand-shopping centre and keep it open... Maybe that could give us an indication if Sandton City's interior will be ready by July 2010.

^^ It seems that a massive task yes! Do any Capetonians maybe recall how long it took to do the Cavendish Square overhaul in the 90's? It was a similar task that needed to be done, completely change the face of a faded-old-grand-shopping centre and keep it open... Maybe that could give us an indication if Sandton City's interior will be ready by July 2010.

The first phase will not be complete by 2010 - and they make that clear. The work will stop during the world cup in 2010 though, and resume after. It seems it will go stage by stage (40m sections will be closed down and overhauled). They did the same with Menlyn Mall in Pretoria during its R800million overhaul in 2001. The majority of the work will be done in 2010, it seems - in order to attract shoppers. But the shopping centre will officially be finished in 2011.

understandable, but......

Liberty Properties hoped to have 95% of the construction complete by the time the 2010 FIFA World Cup took place, when construction would be stopped temporarily to accommodate the increased number of visitors. By April 2011, it was expected that the project would be entirely complete.

95% is almost complete.

^^ That's what I was getting at, seems they want the interior of the mall almost done by July 2010, I'm sure the exterior will come in phase 2 and 3 etc. That's why I asked the "Cavendish" question, as it seems the task at hand in Sandton is similar to what was done and I want to know how long it took Cavendish to do their massive "face-lift." If it was done in 20 months or so, we can safely say Sandton City, DARLING, will be ready for WC 2010!

lol, I spoke to some guys from Investec property, they seething & saying its bullshit, prob pissed off that they not involved, :lol:

I doubt they'll have it done by then. I mean, they haven't started yet have they? That is a very very large overhaul.

If they *can* somehow do it, I hope they do.

Ok guys sorry didnt meant to offend. I apologise. But the point still stands that Jozi is experiencing and exodus of skills at the moment and that is simply not sustainable. You cant have a financial centre when there are no skilled people left there. Not a Cape Town v joburg thing but simply a point for all South Africans to worry about. Case in point a leading Joburg corporate law firm has had 1/4 of its fee earners resign over the last year. If that continues 80ft towers will not be necessary! So very much on topic because without demand those towers aint gonna get built!

Its not a question of not wanting it to happen: for gods sake its a very valid concern that its not going to happen. I wish it would happen: dont forget i spend half my time in jozi and have a flat in Melrose Arch so I couldnt give a shit for city v city spats. I love Joburg which is why the huge number of skilled people leaving the city at the moment worries and saddens me so much.

Ok guys sorry didnt meant to offend. I apologise. But the point still stands that Jozi is experiencing and exodus of skills at the moment and that is simply not sustainable. You cant have a financial centre when there are no skilled people left there. Not a Cape Town v joburg thing but simply a point for all South Africans to worry about. Case in point a leading Joburg corporate law firm has had 1/4 of its fee earners resign over the last year. If that continues 80ft towers will not be necessary! So very much on topic because without demand those towers aint gonna get built!

Its not a question of not wanting it to happen: for gods sake its a very valid concern that its not going to happen. I wish it would happen: dont forget i spend half my time in jozi and have a flat in Melrose Arch so I couldnt give a shit for city v city spats. I love Joburg which is why the huge number of skilled people leaving the city at the moment worries and saddens me so much.

Sadly, I know no-one who is relocating within the country (or to cape town). They are relocating to Aus, NZ, Canada. These don't come back. Some leave for the UK, UAE etc. - some of them come back.

Its just all rather depressing. So many good people are leaving. People are leaving from CT too but it is much more of a problem in Joburg. Again Im not being city v city just stating some sad facts. None of my colleagues in CT are emigrating but a significant proportion of my friends and colleagues in Joburg are. I view myself as living in Jozi as much as Cape Town so its very sad. Joburg has a rather depressing air about it at the moment and peoples attitudes about the future are much more negative than they are down in the cape.

Many CT people still flock to Joburg for jobsthat pay( even if they dont want to) but recently there is a trend that sees Joburg families moving to Cape Town. That doesnt mean big businesses are relocating to Cape Town. Some people are just making the choice to live a better life that Cape Town can offer all middle to high income people.

Ja true although there is a definate trend for hedge funds, brokers and specialist business that rely on highly skilled labour to set up or locate to the cape.

But anyhoo onto more positive matters this is a great project and I really do hope it goes ahead. I find myself shopping in Hyde Park mall when I am in Jozi because Sandton city feels a bit claustrophobic so any upgrade is very welcome so it matches the quality of Mandela Square which is still for me my fave place to go for lunch in SA.

Higher res:

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p246/In3rti4/towers.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p246/In3rti4/inside2.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p246/In3rti4/inside1.jpg

From this ......

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/174/479918849_b18a659a1a_b.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/175/479918863_9154f86953_b.jpg


To this.....

Higher res:

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p246/In3rti4/towers.jpg



I do have some queries as to how to take the completly square building of the Sandton city tower and fit it in to that modern eliptical design......and by the looks of things the twin towers will be a single tower and there is a disticnt lack of the bridge to NM Square.....really exciting all the same.....sorry about the brilliant english, I have my reasons.....................

http://llnw.creamermedia.co.za/articles/images/resized/49262_resized_picture_7.png

if will be this...will be very good!!! :)

aiii.... sexy much?

holy mother of God!

That render looks absolutely amazing!!! I hope this becomes a reality.

It will be awesome tracking the transition of Sandton towers from its shape now to what its going to become.

There isn't too much left to say really... It speaks for itself! :applause:

Thanx for the renders Inertia, where did u get them from?

This development has given me the same exitement as when we bid for 2010. That feeling of pride and unimaginable happyness but lingering fear of it not happening or not going as planned ..... The renders show the 80! floor tower as a 30 floor tower because of the massive chance of it being blocked by the municipality. Money or economic climate or natural disasters will not stop it the biggest hurdle for this building is the people South Africans love to hate...

Start a petition and plan protests to show the municipality that we want massive buildings! That Sandton Joburg and South Africa needed it yesterday already. Dont let it become another Seers!!!!

MONEYWEB: Caswell Rampheri is the managing director of the property development area at Liberty Properties. He's the man with a budget of R1.8bn to spend on Sandton City. Let's go back a little. We had a chat with your colleague, Bruce Hemphill, during the week. He said he thought - I did catch him a little off guard - that Sandton City was worth about R3.5-4bn. Can you put the record straight on that one? What is the value of Sandton City today?

CASWELL RAMPHERI: A hundred percent is about R5.1bn, but we've got a 25% owner in Pareto, and therefore Liberty's share is around R4bn.

MONEYWEB: So Bruce was right with Liberty's share, but the whole complex is worth a bit more than that.

CASWELL RAMPHERI: Correct.

MONEYWEB: You've got exciting plans there. When David Shapiro and I first discussed the R1.8bn investment, he started complaining because he said there's not enough parking already. He doesn't want to walk around the shopping centre and have problems over the next few years. Is that going to disrupt his life?

CASWELL RAMPHERI: Not really. In fact, as part of the development we are adding more parking, and we are making circulation for cars and for customers a bit easier. That's one of the fundamental reasons why we embarked on this.

MONEYWEB: Why have you decided to do it now, given where the economy is?

CASWELL RAMPHERI: Well, we are fortunate that we can still attract rentals that we used to attract a year ago. We have been planning this thing for the past three years. So, from a return point of view on the extension we'll be showing a very good return.

MONEYWEB: How's it going to change for people visiting Sandton City?

CASWELL RAMPHERI: It will be bright, fresh, contemporary, it will be easier to navigate. We are introducing a race-track effect so you can move from Edgars via Woolworths - the circulation is much easier. So we believe it will be easier for customers to spend a bit of money.

MONEYWEB: And how much bigger will the shopping centre be than it is today? You talk 30 000 square metres, but what does that translate into in what we can understand?

CASWELL RAMPHERI: The current retail size, not the offices, about 125 000 square metres. We are adding 30, so it's 155, and the centre will now become the undisputed retail...

MONEYWEB: Bigger than Gateway?

CASWELL RAMPHERI: Much bigger than Gateway.

MONEYWEB: What about the future? One knows the changes in the legislation are allowing Sandton property developers to go a lot higher in the sky, for instance; are you planning those kind of developments? Have you got some real skyscrapers around the corner?

CASWELL RAMPHERI: That's correct. If you look at the vision concept that was in the papers, we are introducing Dubai-style high-rise buildings. We believe that the decision by the municipality to densify Sandton is a great development, and we will also be building more residential on top as part of phase two, another iconic office tower. So yes, it is a good thing and we will be following suit.

MONEYWEB: Interesting to see that you brought in one of the world's top designers to assist you. Why did you have to go offshore?

CASWELL RAMPHERI: Because Sandton City is an international brand.

MONEYWEB: Oh, do you have lot of shoppers from other parts of Africa coming down?

CASWELL RAMPHERI: Yes, we do.

MONEYWEB: Do you have any idea of the percentage of shoppers that maybe do come from outside the country, just to shop at Sandton City?

CASWELL RAMPHERI: We are tracking them through the vet office, and it's around 7%.

MONEYWEB: That new office tower that's going up there, iconic you say - how tall? Eighty stories is I think the number that I saw somewhere. How does it compare with the current office towers?

CASWELL RAMPHERI: The current office tower is about 35 000 squares, so I think we are doubling in terms of the height.

MONEYWEB: And there are a number of other high-rises in the area as well, so I guess the skyline of Sandton will be very different in five years' time from what it is today.

CASWELL RAMPHERI: That's correct. It will be different and exciting.

MONEYWEB: What's happened to the prices of other properties in the area, people who perhaps own flats nearby Sandton City?

CASWELL RAMPHERI: With the Gautrain alone coming through, the prices have improved. And, with the developments that are planned, prices are just going to skyrocket.

MONEYWEB: So don't go anywhere, guys, if you own a property in Sandton. It could be your proverbial - what did we always say? - farm in Eloff Street.

WAYNE McCURRIE: Ja. And look what happened to the farm in Eloff Street! Alec, I must say it'll be very good for Sandton. I'm not sure if it's good for Sandton roads.

MONEYWEB: Oh, well, we've got the Gautrain coming, so we'll all be hopping on the train soon.

WAYNE McCURRIE: Hope so.

:dance:

does not make sence- Current tower is 25F ish or around 120m max
" The current office tower is about 35 000 squares, so I think we are doubling in terms of the height."
80F will be min 280-300m so its off by a big margin

Carlton sa buildng at 50f or 222m so I really dont see a 80F going up in Sandon for many reasons (services issues, traffic will kill the roads and the traffic modeling will cause severe gridlock etc).

Maybe 40-50f and 200m but after that its gonna be difficult to make all the numbers and factors stack

Great article! someone should make a thread in one of the international forums to shed light to others on this massive project! :cheers:

I only saw this thread this morning....is this for real? I don't want to get too excited just yet

Well if the seers building is built by then, then it will not look so out of place
And maybe where the 80 storey building is going will look like it is right in the middle of Sandton from far away
Will look quite cool
MAybe someone can make a 3d version of what Sandton will look like in 5 years

WAYNE McCURRIE: Ja. And look what happened to the farm in Eloff Street! Alec, I must say it'll be very good for Sandton. I'm not sure if it's good for Sandton roads.

MONEYWEB: Oh, well, we've got the Gautrain coming, so we'll all be hopping on the train soon.

WAYNE McCURRIE: Hope so.


Thanks for posting this interview Waltjie. Pity they didn't go too much into the public transport infrastructure under construction, and how it would benefit the development. Only went briefly into Gautrain.

Was speaking to someone at Growthpoint the other night. Seems like the bridge between 1 Sandton Drive and Sandton City will be finished before the end of the year (think they are still negotiating with council on encroachment fees). This should bring a whole bunch more foot traffic through Sandton City, especially later on when the Gautrain is finished.

so you will be able to walk in climate controled enviroment from station, through sandton sq, then sandton city to 1 sandton drive.

Much like Toronto or Sydney

Yes doll, no need to catch a chill or a heatwave after that freshly done 'bolla' and that lunchtime botox.... :lol:

http://prefixtech.vo.llnwd.net/o23/cr/template/en/logo.gif


Sandton could host Africa's tallest building

By: Irma Venter
Published: 15 Aug 08 - 0:00

If everything goes according to plan, Sandton will be home to Africa's tallest building, at 80 storeys, overtaking the 50-storey Carlton hotel in the heart of Johannesburg.

This mammoth will be part of the redevelopment of Sandton City, long one of the iconic shopping destinations in Johannesburg. The redevelopment will take place in three phases.

The Sandton City complex is owned by Liberty Properties (75%) and Pareto Limited (25%).

In the first phase Liberty Properties Development - a division of Liberty Properties - will spend R1,77 billion to refurbish the existing complex.

This initiative will also comprise 30 000 m² of new retail space which will take the complex to 158 000 m² gross lettable area, as well as the addition of 900 parking bays.

It will also see the strengthening of the super-structure to allow for the construction of the 80-storey building.

Construction will start in the fourth quarter of this year, with completion scheduled for April 2011.

However, says Liberty Properties Development CEO Caswell Rampheri, around "95% of the work will be completed for the 2010 Soccer World Cup, with construction to stop during the event".

He says the second phase will see the construction of the 80 storey office tower offering a walkway to the nearby Gautrain station - with work possibly starting before the end of phase one already; a new hotel; and residential apartments.

Phase three may involve more residential property, but this is dependent on market demand, notes Rampheri.

He adds that the development has spent three and a half years in the making, and included "extensive research and consultation".

International London-based RTKL Associates - an award-winning global practice of architects, planners, engineers and design consultants - has been chosen as the complex designer.

RTKL is the designer of the Beijing International Sports and Exhibition Centre, which will house the 2008 summer Olympics. The practice has also designed the Gateway Shopping Centre in Umhlanga, Durban, and is the designer for the new Twin Towers precinct, in New York.

The main construction contract has not yet been awarded and is in the tender stage. It will include a 60% empowerment participation target with mandatory use of small and medium enterprises, and joint venture empowerment entities to ensure skills transfer, says Rampheri.

In the years since Sandton City opened in 1974, the previous tranquil suburb has developed into a bustling precinct, with more than 1,2-billion m² of commercial space, making it the country's second largest office node.

Now, after nearly 35 years, Sandton City is in need of face-lift, says Rampheri.

Shoppers describe it as "dark and tired", with new shopping developments of around 500 000 m2 which have sprung up in the surrounding suburbs offering stiff competition.

"We insist on a more practical offering of security, parking, convenience and a variety of tenants," says Rampheri.

Edited by: Martin Zhuwakinyu

Great article, thanks :)

http://www.property24.com/Property24/img/P24HeaderImages/logo_property.png


Sandton's new hair-brained scheme

2008/08/18

A new 80-storey building is planned for Sandton City. Paddy Hartdegen wonders how on earth the area can possibly handle the extra people it will bring.

I love hair-brained schemes because they sometimes become a reality. I mean who were those okes in Dubai who decided to build a concrete dhow in the sea and call it an hotel. Then they got it graded as a seven-star establishment and it became the best hotel in the world? Most ordinary people probably thought that those blokes were nuts. And just look successful their project is today.

We have a similar hair-brained scheme unfolding on our doorstep. Some nutter (or visionary perhaps) has proposed that Liberty (who owns the property) should tear down Sandton City's office block and put up a new 80-storey building on top of the parking lot instead.

There's no detail on how they plan to take down the existing office tower. They don't seem to have many options: if they implode the thing, it'll blow a hole through the parking lot roof, smashing Ferraris, Astons and BMs by the fistful; if they take it down floor by floor the manual effort alone will take years – and they'll drop buckets of rubble on the even more Astons, Ferraris and BMs parked on the roof outside.

Apparently taking down the office block is just part of a three phase redevelopment at Sandton City, which will see the retail space being extended by about 30 000 m2 to 158 000 m2 and the super-structure (where people are parking at the moment) being strengthened so that the office tower can stand there.

If it goes ahead the new 80-storey building will certainly be tallest in Africa – and given that Johannesburg itself is about 2 000 metres above sea level will probably rank as one of the tallest buildings in the world too.

At this stage I haven't seen any detailed drawings, artist's impressions or other publicity material that is normally handed out when such projects are announced. I'm not particularly concerned about seeing any of it at this stage because I'm confident that the planners, architects and engineers will get all the silly construction details right – like they did at the Kollonade, Brooklyn or Menlyn.

What does interest me about the project is Sandton's town-planners. Now these okes are bright. They sit in their low-rise building in West Street and are only too happy to approve a new 80-storey office block on top of a roof in the heart of Sandon.

"Cool," they say, "Let's pack more people into our district and watch them try'n get home at rush hour. We might be able to block Grayston Drive, William Nichol and Rivonia Road completely. Fast food or mugs of beer and wine are a great answer to gridlock. Think how rich our restaurants will become. Even more money for us."

I can see these town-planners smiling to themselves as they quietly drop a note to the Sandton Metro Police to suggest they might want to increase foot patrols by 2012. Then they can trap the hundreds of drunks who stumble back to their cars that are gridlocked on Rivonia Road. They won't need roadblocks because the road's already blocked. Foot patrols can catch the drunks.

I mean, can you imagine injecting at least another 4 000 cars into Sandton City and its surroundings? With the parking mess that already exists it'll probably be quicker for commuters to park at the Field and Study centre opposite Republic Road (on William Nichol) and hike to work. They could keep their good shoes in their Gucci backpack and use veldskoens to crush through the bushes until they reach the entrance to the new Sandton City.

They better not take off their veldskoens just yet. While they are walking to Sandton City, Eskom might switch off the power so the lifts aren't working. Now all they have to do is trudge up the 80 floors to their splendid A-grade office space.

Pity that they'd left home at 06h30 and only reached their offices just after lunch. They sink into their chairs – bushed in every sense of the word. In due course, Eskom turns on the lights and leave them on for the rest of the two-hour afternoon. Then, considerately, Eskom shut down power just after five.

How these town-planners will be laughing as they watch the Sandton commuters trudge down 80 flights of stairs, traipse through Benmore to the Field and Study centre (in their Veldskoens and Gucci backpacks) then plunge into the bushes just as an afternoon thunderstom pummels them with hail stones the size of pigeons' eggs.

Anyone who experiences the misery of commuting to Sandton these days will understand what I'm talking about. The traffic there is already horrendous and it's getting worse by the week, as more and more high rise building go up around the 10 square km business district.

The property developers have put loads of cash into creating what they call first class A-grade office space. They've also put very little money into parking so tenants get XX-grade (or very, very bad) parking facilities. The town-planners have welcomed the property developers, approving their plans with a flick of the wrist, and promptly given Sandton commuters XXX-grade (very,very, very bad) roads networks.

A new 80-storey office block in Sandton City? The mind boggles.

*Hartdegen writes a regular column for Property24.com. The content of his columns constitutes his personal opinion and don't pretend to be facts or advice. Contact him at paddyhar@telkomsa.net.

Quite a badly written article, shows a clear lack of knowledge of the project and the grammar is quite horrible.

Firstly the office tower will not be demolished, and there are renders available on the net, as we are all aware. I think the tower is definitely feasible in the long term

:ohno:


This is just laughable, how stupid can one be. How did, out of all, property24 allow that to be published on their website?

does not make sence- Current tower is 25F ish or around 120m max
" The current office tower is about 35 000 squares, so I think we are doubling in terms of the height."
80F will be min 280-300m so its off by a big margin

Carlton sa buildng at 50f or 222m so I really dont see a 80F going up in Sandon for many reasons (services issues, traffic will kill the roads and the traffic modeling will cause severe gridlock etc).

Maybe 40-50f and 200m but after that its gonna be difficult to make all the numbers and factors stack

Is it just me, or does the render of the 80F building not really look 80F at all?

:ohno:


This is just laughable, how stupid can one be. How did, out of all, property24 allow that to be published on their website?

Pathetic.

^^ :lol: As we've always been saying here, The property and development journos should be members of Skycrapercity, they'd be 1000 times better informed!

Is it just me, or does the render of the 80F building not really look 80F at all?

I could be seriously missing the plot here but I think I can remember it being mentioned that the tower in the render is a "mini" model of the actual tower for some reason. It's a dumbed down version whilst they wait for approval for the 80F or something along those lines.

Yah definitely doesn't look like it's 80F.

As for that article - wow, absolutely shocking. Clearly Paddy Hartdegen does not know what he is talking about. The fact that he hasn't seen any glossy renders just shows how he neither has he done his research into the building, nor has he done research into Joburg's Spatial Development Framework! tut, tut...

Paddy Hartdegen is clearly a fool - he has done no research and presents an argument that has no bearing on the facts. The main problem though is that the oldies (people not familiar with the internet and SSC) read it as fact.

Paddy would also have us believe that it is preferable to continue with super low density urban sprawl rather than create a central business district environment in Sandton serviced by BRT and the Gautrain. As I said earlier: the guy is a fool

I was livid when I saw this yesterday. Almost prompted me to write a letter and deliver it to Paddy's faux tuscan pad myself.

oh, and the render in the pics is not of a 80f building.

It's all Media 24 - such a rubbish bunch of newspapers who publish complete trash. Trash that will sell newspapers.

I could say that the sky is green, and it would get published. Never mind that this isn't based on any fact - it's my opinion, and so will get published.

Even his article says so...


The content of his columns constitutes his personal opinion and don't pretend to be facts or advice.


That's for sure...

^^ :lol:Media24... Remember Jon I-Hate-Gays-Whites-ProgressiveAfricans-Democracy-TheWest Qwelane works for them!!! :ohno: :ohno: :ohno:

That may be his opinion about the tower proposal but does anyone think that a 80F tower in the Sandton CBD will be built anytime soon given that there are serious capacity constraints related to the ability to provide infrastructure for such a development such as roads, water, sewage and yes, electricity (the latter of which is unrealiable until the new power plants are built). Given that the SA economy will only grow by 3% per year for the next 10 years such a tower development would remain unviable for a long time. I do not see it going up until around 2020. Maybe the local authorities will have their act together by then.

^^ Be careful DeKapenaar... the Gauties already had a flog-fest with me when I posed similar infrastructural issues... :nuts::lol:

That may be his opinion about the tower proposal but does anyone think that a 80F tower in the Sandton CBD will be built anytime soon given that there are serious capacity constraints related to the ability to provide infrastructure for such a development such as roads, water, sewage and yes, electricity (the latter of which is unrealiable until the new power plants are built). Given that the SA economy will only grow by 3% per year for the next 10 years such a tower development would remain unviable for a long time. I do not see it going up until around 2020. Maybe the local authorities will have their act together by then.

Do you really think an 80 floor tower would be proposed if it's common knowledge that there is no way possible for infrastructure to handle it?
When a developer applies for rights for a building, he/she has to submit a detailed proposal including an EIA which simulates the extra traffic and pressure placed on all infrastructure. Road engineers, water & sewerage experts and other infrastructural experts are mandated to asses these added pressures and what needs to be done. It is usually up to the developer to upgrade the infrastructure as necessary, and this is usually done, as it is a win-win outcome. Once the council is satisfied that the development will have no detrimental affects, the project is approved.

Now if you bothered to read up you will know that the tower phase is only possibly commencing after 2011, and will probably only be completed after 2013, when new power is set to come on board. So i guess we'll just wait and see till then

Is it just me, or does the render of the 80F building not really look 80F at all?

It looks 45ish to me

The tower in the render is not 80F. It is around 50. It was mentioned before.

I highly doubt the developers would propose an 80F tower if they thought the area couldn't handle the extra capacity with possible upgrades or even without (though I doubt the latter).

not mention it would be a waste of money

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd5/z0rggg/gfb3G.jpg

^^ I hope this is what Sandton gets!!!

Provincial government wanted a 80floor building on the Gautrain station - Sandton city office tower is almost right next to the gautrain station so no reason why it cant be approved!!!!!

Heres hoping for the proudest day of my life!

It could be one of the tallest if not the tallest building in the southern hemisphere! Sama in melbourne will be 90 floors but the proposed design has a flat top and Sandton city a pointy top . Add a mast on top and we take the honours. Heres to hoping the largest mall in the the southern hemisphere has the tallest building in the southern hemisphere....

damn! one of those would be awesome for Sandton

It was a proposal for a building in China and got turned down . I personally think its culer than the design they chose . Sandton city tower seems to have the same design concepts as this tower.

I have ben up Sydney tower, Auckland tower, carlton center ,Q1 on Gold Coast and Rialto tower in Melbourne which are the tallest in the Southern Hemisphere.

Im a bit of a sucker for tall towers you might say

Hopefully that will one day include Sandton City tower

Another tower gunning for the #1 spot is the CUB tower in Melbourne also at around 330m but with only 60 something floors and large column for hight and design on top...

Another tower gunning for the #1 spot is the CUB tower in Melbourne also at around 330m but with only 60 something floors and large column for hight and design on top...that's cheating,I don't care what any council on tall buildings says.When the Carlton was built that was pure meat and bones -no toothpicks to claim any titles

I still hope carlton gets a modern make over to give its strong flesh and bones some skin , that would be awesome!

Current tallest buildings in the Southern hemisphere:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3274/2806633625_e65deeb74d_o.jpg

Back in the day we were the hight kings down south its high time we retake our top spot!

I have been to ....

1.
Eureka Skydeck - 88th floor (it is also the scariest :The Edge" http://www.eurekalookout.com.au/the-edge.asp )

2.
Skytower (tallest structure in the Southern Hemisphere ... not for long I might add) - Auckland - 220m up and the 2nd scariest (glass floors). The restaurant is 190m above the ground and completes a full rotation every hour .. it is awesome ! I am trying to pluck up the courage to complete the sky-walk. I am sure that Johan would jump at that opportunity ;)

3.
Rialto - Melbourne
The tallest office tower in Australia. I personally found this to have the best views of Melbourne but not as exciting as Eureka.

4.
Sydney Tower ... fabulous views and it will soon receive a much needed make-over.

5.
Carlton Tower ... had a private rave up there in the early 90's. It was magic but I think that the space cake made the experience even better :)

I am hoping to get go up Q1 next year :)

Thanks for the info Johan. That brought back many memories.

Would be nice if we do get something like that.

I am sure that Johan would jump at that opportunity ;) .

^^ :eek: Im scared of hights makes me sick all the way to my bones. Bunjee at victoria falls freaked me out , but I did jump...

Hey guys, got some more updates for you. This time we are in Sandton (yes I am now in JHB).

The Gautrain Station site doesn't allow for cameras, but sneaky me snapped a few from Sandton City Parking Lot, and the taxi rank on the other side. This station, as I am sure you know, is located on Rivonia Road, between West Road and 5th Street.

From Parking Lot (5th Street is in front):
http://i510.photobucket.com/albums/s347/alainkermis/100_0711.jpg

From Taxi Rank:
http://i510.photobucket.com/albums/s347/alainkermis/100_0708.jpg

Then there is the office block updgrade on c/o 5th and Maude, next to Nelson Mandela Square.
http://i510.photobucket.com/albums/s347/alainkermis/100_0712.jpg
http://i510.photobucket.com/albums/s347/alainkermis/100_0713.jpg

Down the road, I also managed to snap a pic of the temporary shaft site (Gautrain) on c/o Pretoria Avenue and Rivonia Rd. I am assuming this is there so that Rivonia Road can remain open for the duration of construction (LOL the busiest Rd in Sandton):
http://i510.photobucket.com/albums/s347/alainkermis/100_0709.jpg

I must say this is all rather exciting. There was also a blasting on the 26th August as well, which means the tunnelling is moving along smoothly! :D

^^ Great photos bru......

The project on the cnr of 5th and Maude is the 12F Legacy Corner. There is a thead for it in the project section.

Looks like some glass at the top of the Radisson did you get any photos of that? (Its the big one on the left of your last pic)

da fancy corner! :lol:

^^ Great photos bru......

The project on the cnr of 5th and Maude is the 12F Legacy Corner. There is a thead for it in the project section.

Looks like some glass at the top of the Radisson did you get any photos of that? (Its the big one on the left of your last pic)

Thanks dude. Of course I did get a photo indeed of it - anyway, here we go: :D

http://i510.photobucket.com/albums/s347/alainkermis/100_0710.jpg

Oh wow the Radisson is looking really good now!

The glass section are where the penthouses will be. One can also clearly see the running track jutting out over Sandton Isle.

Thanks to N.I.C.E for pointing out these renders. He found them at http://www.worldarchitecturenews.com. A pretty nifty find!

They're somewhat abstract, but one can clearly see the Forum, Nelson Mandela Square and the Sandton Sun Towers Intercontinental. They're seemingly pedestrianising the road inbetween Sandton City and the Square, and creating open air spaces that are covered in part.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g102/joburgboy/sandton2.jpg

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g102/joburgboy/sandton1.jpg

Can't get over the extreme sexiness.

do we know when construction is starting

Construction of phase 1 will start soon (does not include towers)

I havent noticed it before but seems they are pedestrianizing that street between Sandton City and the nelson mandela square gautrain block! Thus no more bridges and easy access from the station to the office towers!

Pedestrianization of West Street will fall under which phase?

:drool: That tower is amazing !!! as for the commie block statement, now that I have seen better renders - the "finger" office blocks also look good. Way to go South Africa!!

I wonder what the total price tag will be if everything goes to plan. that tower alone would be almost R2 billion if portside costs R1.2 billion.

I wonder what the total price tag will be if everything goes to plan. that tower alone would be almost R2 billion if portside costs R1.2 billion.

I would say closer to R4 billion, considering 80 floors and construction in only a few years time

Burj dubai cost R4.5 billion so 4 billion a bit much . remenber 7 billion in SA buys a whole new internatiomal airport

Burj dubai cost R4.5 billion so 4 billion a bit much . remenber 7 billion in SA buys a whole new internatiomal airport

Burj Dubai 4.5 billion South African Rands? Source?

Die Burger property supplement on a saturday said that. it would have gone up because of inflation coz it was quite a while back but that was the stated price tag in ZA Rand for just the building

Wow this looks so amazing! I really, really hope it goes ahead.

where is the bridge in those renders of the link between sandtoncity and nelson mandela? u cant just knock it down surely

with the pedestrianisation of fifth ave the bridge will go. The 20-odd shops in the bridge will not be that happy - but it is rather vile.

I'm so happy for Johannesburg to be getting this, that is such a sexy render.

A good step towards relazation of 80 Skyscraper for Sandton

Liberty buys Nelson Mandela Square
2008/10/01

Liberty Group announced on Wednesday that it had taken full ownership of Sandton's Nelson Mandela Square after paying R231m for the 22,97% interest previously held by Transnet Pension Fund.

Samuel Ogbu, CEO of Liberty Properties, said that the deal was agreed upon in July, but the transfer was completed on September 25.

Liberty, which owns 75% of Sandton City, recently announced plans to invest R1,77bn in the expansion and refurbishment of the complex.

"Full ownership of the Square positions us to draw full value from that strategy as it takes shape in the coming months," added Ogbu. – I-Net Bridge

Burj Dubai 4.5 billion South African Rands? Source?

I think they probably made a mistake and say R4.5 billion instead of $4.5 billion. The number is stuggering for the Burj Dubai. i also think that the Sandton tower will cost in the region of R4 - R5 billion rands. Just do a quick google of "Cost to build Burj Dubai" to confirm the numbers.

The total budget for the Burj Dubai project is about US$4.1 billion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burj_Dubai)
Seems my prediction are more or less correct. R4 billion seems right, if not a bit less, for 80 floors

yes, that's correct, considering that the 30 odd floors that makes up Michelangelo tower was built at a cost of R800 million 4-5 years ago, when construction was still dead cheap in SA. I bet that would take roughly R1.2-1.3 billion to replace at today's prices. Given that the new 80F tower looks a lot more posh than Michelangelo, you can arrive at a budget of somewhere between R3.5 - R4.0 billion.

I am wondering which banks are going to cough this up, in the current climate of financial turmoil and credit crunch. :(

very modern project!!!!!

yes, that's correct, considering that the 30 odd floors that makes up Michelangelo tower was built at a cost of R800 million 4-5 years ago, when construction was still dead cheap in SA. I bet that would take roughly R1.2-1.3 billion to replace at today's prices. Given that the new 80F tower looks a lot more posh than Michelangelo, you can arrive at a budget of somewhere between R3.5 - R4.0 billion.

I am wondering which banks are going to cough this up, in the current climate of financial turmoil and credit crunch. :(

I think most banks are looking for a sound investment with a small probability of defaulting. Funding won't be a problem i think.

From the RTKL

RTKL to Redesign Sandton City Shopping Centre

Johannesburg, South Africa–September 2, 2008–Africa’s premier shopping destination will soon receive a R1.77 billion ($226 million) face-lift from RTKL, the international architecture, planning, engineering and creative services firm. Opened in 1974 and renovated twice since, the 158,000-SM Sandton City Shopping Centre is a mixed-use facility comprising over 300 shops, an 11-screen cinema, restaurants, an office tower and hotel.

The client, Liberty Life Properties, selected RTKL based on a design competition of international architects. RTKL will direct the planning and conceptual design of Sandton City’s all-encompassing revitalization, including a 30,000-SM extension.

“Our efforts are rooted in a desire to reposition Sandton City and transform its long-term vision,” notes Paul Dunn RIBA, a Director in RTKL’s London office. “We are taking a space that is somewhat fragmented and dated and infusing it with a fresh, modern sensibility. Sandton City will soon be a shining example of commercial elegance and sophistication—a testament to successful mixed-use development.”

RTKL’s winning scheme relies on a multi-disciplinary approach to maximize Sandton City’s value and long-term viability. The redevelopment creates a harmonious balance between existing structures and proposed buildings and public spaces. Sensitive to the urban fabric, the proposed plan offers a holistic vision that includes contemporary retail, residential and office components.

Within the retail environment, plaza nodes will serve as transition points, with new environmental graphics and signage to guide customer wayfinding and circulation. Outside, stunning architectural veils will extend from the commercial towers to decrease solar radiation and glare, shade internal courts and atria, and shelter roof gardens. Sustainable technologies will be woven throughout the project to improve water retention, cool buildings, and harness the wind.

To minimize disruption to existing businesses and tenants, the redevelopment of Sandton City utilizes a comprehensive phasing schedule. Upon completion in early 2012, Sandton City promises to be a commanding new landmark with a secure future and a cohesive, distinctive character.

About RTKL:

RTKL is a worldwide architecture, engineering, planning and creative services organization. Part of the ARCADIS global network since 2007, RTKL specializes in providing its multi-disciplinary services across the full development cycle to create places of distinction and designs of lasting value. RTKL works with commercial, workplace, public and healthcare clients on projects around the globe.

RTKL.com

Except for historical information contained herein, the statements in this release are forward-looking statements that are made pursuant to the safe harbor provisions of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Forward-looking statements involve known and unknown risks and uncertainties that may cause the company’s actual results in future periods to differ materially from forecasted results. Those risks include, among others, the risk that our delisting from NASDAQ and subsequent deregistration with the SEC will not become effective as currently anticipated, risks associated with possible changes in environmental legislation and risks with regard to the Company’s ability to acquire and execute projects. These and other risks are described in ARCADIS’ filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission over the last 12 months, copies of which will be available from the SEC or may be obtained upon request from the Company.

yes, that's correct, considering that the 30 odd floors that makes up Michelangelo tower was built at a cost of R800 million 4-5 years ago, when construction was still dead cheap in SA. I bet that would take roughly R1.2-1.3 billion to replace at today's prices. Given that the new 80F tower looks a lot more posh than Michelangelo, you can arrive at a budget of somewhere between R3.5 - R4.0 billion.

I am wondering which banks are going to cough this up, in the current climate of financial turmoil and credit crunch. :(

michelangelo is high end residentail and office tower is shell and core, costs are about 40% of high rise high end resi

I guess the silence on this thread means that you are aware that Group Five has canned the construction of the 80 storey mammoth has been canned due to lack of finance.I'm kinda hoping that one of you will say that the article I read on moneyweb.co.za is totally false and in fact,construction is on schedule.If it's true then it is indeed a shame.Guess we have to settle for good ole Carlton Centre...so sad.

Which project are you referring too.

I guess the silence on this thread means that you are aware that Group Five has canned the construction of the 80 storey mammoth has been canned due to lack of finance.I'm kinda hoping that one of you will say that the article I read on moneyweb.co.za is totally false and in fact,construction is on schedule.If it's true then it is indeed a shame.Guess we have to settle for good ole Carlton Centre...so sad.

Dono where you read this, link? The +-80 floor building is only phase 2 and will only be considered once phase one is complete. There were no building contracts to build this, no final design, it was just a concept, so it can't really be canned if it never really got off the ground. We should only really be hearing news about this in the next 3-5 years.

Here is a link to the article : www.moneyweb.co.za/mw/view/mw/en/page40?oid=232282&sn=Detail

Hmm. Doubt this is the Sandton City one. Could be The Seers (most likely), the IDC tower (unlikely), or some tower we never knew about (highly unlikely)

So this might just be another case of an online journo not double-checking the facts again?

Could be. 'an 80 floor tower in Sandton' could refer to a few things :tongue2:

Im still fishing out info from my contact in IDC, he said there is rumors about it but he'll get me more info, but it might take a while since his always out of the country.

The Sandton City 80 floor tower is still going ahead and Liberty is planning to start phase 1 sooner than planned.

All I know is that there was a planned 60 story tower which is canned/halted in Gwen Lane because of the current economic turmoil but it's not written off completely.

Phew!Relieved like you won't believe.I'm hoping that Durbsboi's contact also dismisses this allegation.I personally have a lot riding on this tower.Sheesh,now moneyweb.co.za can't be trusted...

Well I'm sure the article is speaking the truth, there have been highrises cancelled in Sandton, The Seers being the most notable.

The Seers....:cry:

Oh poor Seers :(

Does anyone mind telling me about The Seers?So glad I wasnt here for the heartbreak!

There is a dedicated thread for it somewhere........and one massive hole in the ground on maude street........

Thanks for the reference KomSakkie.I feel in love,had my heart broken and moved on,all in one minute.The Seers had a very amazing design.I know nothing about architecture and all it's regulations but is it not possible for other future skyscrapers to adopt this look?

I guess the silence on this thread means that you are aware that Group Five has canned the construction of the 80 storey mammoth has been canned due to lack of finance.I'm kinda hoping that one of you will say that the article I read on moneyweb.co.za is totally false and in fact,construction is on schedule.If it's true then it is indeed a shame.Guess we have to settle for good ole Carlton Centre...so sad.

Its obvious from the article that they are referring to The Seers, see the quote which clearly states that Group 5 had dug a hole and been paid for it.

One conspicuous setback was the recent cancellation of an 80-storey shop and apartment complex in Sandton because finance could not be raised. Even here Group Five escaped with minor cuts and abrasions - it has dug a monumental hole and been paid for it. The developer of what would have been Africa's tallest skyscraper is for the moment high and dry.

Would Seers have been the tallest skyscraper?

Its obvious from the article that they are referring to The Seers, see the quote which clearly states that Group 5 had dug a hole and been paid for it.

There is also a massive hole on Gwen lane alittle behind and over the road from the JSE I think....... I saw a picture once, will try to find it so that you can see for yourself.......Look at sandton discussion and gallery

MOVED

What exactly will grow out of that hole?

:dunno:

Nothing to do with Sandton City upgrade..

Agreed but I'll remove it and post it in the sandton discussion and gallery

thanks

oh no! i felt so strongly for Seers :(

i think they should really start on the area of sandton city around checkers.Really feels claustraphobic and old.also around the sandton sun shops leading to the mall.Any news on start dates?

MONEYWEB: Caswell Rampheri is the managing director of the property development area at Liberty Properties. ...

MONEYWEB: And how much bigger will the shopping centre be than it is today? You talk 30 000 square metres, but what does that translate into in what we can understand?

CASWELL RAMPHERI: The current retail size, ...about 125 000 square metres. We are adding 30, so it's 155, and the centre will now become the undisputed retail...

MONEYWEB: Bigger than Gateway?

CASWELL RAMPHERI: Much bigger than Gateway.



Hmm, Let's dispute this .... as of March 2007, Gateway Theatre of Shopping has an undisputed total of 166,000 square metres.

Mr Caswell Rampheri, your SandtonCity appears to be 11,000 square meters short...

Just thought I'd clear this bit of misleading information.

Cheers

RavenX

Where does he get the "much bigger than gateway?" Was his head in the sand or something?

didn't Dysan1 provide some clarity on this sometime?

Sandton City + Nelson Mandela Square combined will be bigger than Gateway if i remember correctly. Sandton City itself will still be 11000 m2 smaller than Gateway.

...Was his head in the sand or something?

A Minedump ~ would be more appropriate. :lol:

@Joburg ~ Caswell was discussing only SandtonCity itself.

I'm not a fan of someone that tries to make out that their centre wil become the "undesputed retail, blah, blah..., largest, blah, blah..." when in fact it is not.

It would be like Cape Town declaring their Two Ocean's Marathon bigger than the Comrades.

RavenX

didn't Dysan1 provide some clarity on this sometime?

Sandton City + Nelson Mandela Square combined will be bigger than Gateway if i remember correctly. Sandton City itself will still be 11000 m2 smaller than Gateway.

Nelson Mandela Square is 16 000m2, meaning that even if it is combined with Sandton City, 5 000m2 is hardly anywhere near "much bigger" than Gateway.

Does it really matter? In my honest opinion, the size of the mall means absolutely nothing. Sandton City for example is a great mall, but I prefer only going there if I really have to. Who cares how big it is? As long as the shops are quality and the architecure is good... :)
I actually think that Cresta is a better mall than Sandton City, for example. But it has a shit location... and parking is a nightmare. When I go to Sandton City, I feel like I want to get done what I went there for, and get the hell out of there... like one struggles to breathe in there. The coolest mall in Gauteng for me at this stage, is Cedar Square.

Does it really matter? In my honest opinion, the size of the mall means absolutely nothing. Sandton City for example is a great mall, but I prefer only going there if I really have to. Who cares how big it is? As long as the shops are quality and the architecure is good... :)
I actually think that Cresta is a better mall than Sandton City, for example. But it has a shit location... and parking is a nightmare. When I go to Sandton City, I feel like I want to get done what I went there for, and get the hell out of there... like one struggles to breathe in there. The coolest mall in Gauteng for me at this stage, is Cedar Square.

Many people care...me for one. There's just something about a large mall that makes it better than a corner shopping centre for me.

The coolest mall in Gauteng for me at this stage, is Cedar Square.

I concur with you, I love Cedar Square. Clear Water and Design quarter are also more pleasent.

I tend to prefer smaller malls too. Sandton is nice enough, but for me Rosebank tops it all.


@Joburg ~ Caswell was discussing only SandtonCity itself.


Yes I realise that but in his mind he might be combining the two. Anyway, as Lydon says, it won't make it that much bigger than Gateway anyway. And besides, who is counting? They're all big! :D

I don't like malls... I only go to the exclusive books - and hyde park has the best exclusive books in the country.

I don't like malls... I only go to the exclusive books - and hyde park has the best exclusive books in the country.

Except for the ones in Cape Town, NOTHING beats Cape Town.

Except for the ones in Cape Town, NOTHING beats Cape Town.

He's seen the light! :banana:

I have! And it's shining directly on Sandton :tongue2:

let me direct you to the city whose tower isnt a hole in the ground ;)

er - You can't possibly be referring to the 80 floor wonderment of the (soonish to be) Sandton City tower?

Or maybe you're referring to the 10 storey deep Sandton Station atrium.. A veeery big hole in the ground.

And please don't tell me you're directing me to a city with 3 tampons as it's prominent landmark - or perhaps you're referring to a semi demolished building site with a tower proposed to go on it - much like the Seers - is that what you are referring to?

Please forgive me, we have many holes in the ground at this construction site ;)

At least in Jo'burg all highways have been completed - unlike that eyesore at the entrance to the Waterfront that has been there for 40 years.

*runs back with fresh popcorn, gets onto couch and waits for the show...*

^^ :lol:

Whoo-nelly... Put on your gloves ladies!

I am a Capetonian, but apart from some casual jokes, I can't get into bagging other SA cities. I want the whole country to blossom, I want Joburg and Durbs and ... ok, even Bloem; to hustle and bustle and be as good as they can be.
Competition is good if it is the positive, active, lets-do-better type - as opposed to the handbag-swinging, bitchy, my-bridge-is-bigger-than-yours type...

Here's a thread for this topic, don't flood this thread fo ours you jealous people ;)

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=27292912#post27292912

I am a Capetonian, but apart from some casual jokes, I can't get into bagging other SA cities. I want the whole country to blossom, I want Joburg and Durbs and ... ok, even Bloem; to hustle and bustle and be as good as they can be.
Competition is good if it is the positive, active, lets-do-better type - as opposed to the handbag-swinging, bitchy, my-bridge-is-bigger-than-yours type...
I find it funny we also always mention, Bloem, but never PE! That poor old lady of the Eastern Cape, have we all given up all hope for her? :lol:

Have they started construction yet on the interior on the mall (know the towers come a little later)? I cannot wait to see more "light" in Sandton City, was just too 70's and dark! Sandton HAS to be the grand-lady of shopping centres in Joburg again!

Yeah, whether it's night or day, it feels the same inside.... major claustrophobia!

Construction hasn't started - have they even awarded the tender?
Getting a bit worried

according to press tender award is in Q1 2009, work to start Q2, that is SUPER tight timelines

Wow, this should be interesting to watch

^^ They should use Bombela Consortium to build Sandton City! It'll be done at lightning pace, with just a sinkhole or two developing in N.Mandela Square. :lol:

^^ They should use Bombela Consortium to build Sandton City! It'll be done at lightning pace, with just a sinkhole or two developing in N.Mandela Square. :lol:

If we are lucky, it will swallow that horrible statue of Madiba! :lol:

http://prefixtech.vo.llnwd.net/o23/cr/template/en/logo.gif

http://llnw.creamermedia.co.za/articles/images/resized/54101_resized_high-rise.jpg


Balancing the desire for icons with good sense will be key as South Africa warms to the high-rise once more

By: Dennis Ndaba

Published: 14 Nov 08 - 0:00

The evolution of cities and their skylines is never fixed or static. Take Johannesburg. Over the past few decades, the fundamental look and feel of the city’s skyline has changed markedly. It has reached a point where, from certain vantage points, three central business districts (CBDs) are now observable: downtown Joburg proper, Rosebank and, increasingly, the Sandton skyline is starting to dominate.

What is also interesting to note is that, while the initial exodus from downtown was to ‘fat-and-flat’ office parks, Sandton now appears truly to be ready to embrace the high-rise.

Tall buildings are back in vogue internationally at present, and South Africa appears alive to this international property-development trend.

Partly, the attraction comes down to sensible space management.

But urban planners assert that tall buildings can also make positive contributions to city life by serving as beacons of urban regeneration, assisting with changing negative perceptions of a particular area and stimulating further investment.

Further, the design and construction of tall buildings can serve to promote architectural excellence and encourage innovation in building and environmental technologies.
However, by virtue of their size and prominence, such buildings can also spoil the qualities that people value about a place. Individually or in groups, they can negatively impact upon the image and identity of a city as a whole.

Vertical Benefits

So, as South African property developers and city planners prepare for a ‘high-rise renaissance’, what lessons can be learnt to ensure that this desire to go vertical adds to the character and efficiency of our cities rather than detracts from them?

Professor Lone Poulsen, director of the Architecture Programme in the School of Architecture and Planning at the University of the Witwatersrand, argues that high-rise developments can be very beneficial to town planning, if there is a well thought out spatial planning framework for the city.

“High-rises are designated to specific areas where development is more concentrated and integrated and where there is a need for more efficient use of valuable and expensive land, such as central business districts and mixed-use nodes,” says Poulsen.

She adds that there have been both success- ful and unsuccessful high-rise developments in the past, from which lessons should be drawn.

“Any dense environment needs to be well designed, well maintained and well managed.

“High-rise buildings designed in isolation from each other tend to be iconic or symbols of power, whereas high-rise development considered as city blocks with buildings adjacent to each other tend to be about creating a sense of urbanity,” she argues.

Poulsen notes that these developments should also anticipate the need for other related facilities and amenities, such as public transport, social facilities and public spaces.

“This is particularly important in the design of high-density residential developments. People who live in confined spaces without contact with the ground need to have an escape in terms of access to both commercial and social amenities. There- fore, changing an area from [being] low-rise low-density to high-rise high-density requires a simultaneous development and reservation of land for these other communal facilities and public open spaces.”

High-Rise Advocate

A key advocate of more high-rises, especially in the fast-growing Sandton CBD, is Liberty Properties property development MD Caswell Rampheri.

He says the company is part of an ambitious development plan in Sandton, but assures that the group is sensitive to the socio-economic benefits and constraints.

“The City of Johannesburg would like Sandton to densify, and given land-availability constraints, the only option is to go vertical.

“This will ease the pressure on land that could be used for roads, parks and other services,” Rampheri outlines, arguing that the “time is right” to go vertical.

The plan, however, will be advanced in phases. Initially, the focus would be on a R1,77-billion refurbishment of the existing Sandton City centre, with the addition of 30 000 m2 of new retail space, improved access and additional parking bays.

Liberty Properties hopes to have 95% of the upgrade completed in time for when the 2010 FIFA World Cup takes place, when construction will be halted temporarily to accommodate the increased number of visitors. By April 2011, it is expected that the project will be entirely complete.

But this is only the first of three phases, with the second and third phases likely to include the construction of a new 80-storey office tower, which will be the tallest in Africa.

The office tower, which will be significantly taller than the 50-storey Carlton Centre, currently the continent’s tallest building, will offer a walkway to the nearby Gautrain station, a new hotel and residential apartments.

Phase three may involve more residential properties, but this is dependent on market demand.

The development, which was unveiled earlier this year, has been three-and-a-half-years in the making, and included “extensive research and consultation”.

London-based RTKL Associates, an award-winning global practice of architects, planners, engineers and design consultants, has been chosen as the complex designer. RTKL is also the designer of the Beijing International Sports and Exhibition Centre, which housed the 2008 summer Olympics.

The practice has also designed the Gateway Shopping Centre, in Umhlanga, Durban, and is the designer for the new Twin Towers precinct, in New York.

The project will be a major next step in the evolution of the CBD, which, since Sandton City opened in 1974, has transformed the previous tranquil semiagricultural district into a bustling precinct, with more than 1,2- billion square metres of commercial space.

Rampheri believes the development will “adopt a reasonable amount of green principles, especially energy efficiency” and says it will be benefit from facilities such as the Gautrain and the rapid bus transportation system, to improve the overall functioning of the CBD.

Cape Town’s Plan

But Sandton is not alone in trying to reshape its skyline: Cape Town has given the go-ahead for a R1,2-billion, 148-m-tall mixed-use development, which, once completed, will hold the accolade of being the city’s tallest building.

Economic confidence and the demand for offices and hotels in the CBD are major drivers of the Portside development.

The Old Mutual Investment Group Property Investments-backed development will comprise 24 office floors (33 000 m2) above a ten-storey hotel (14 000 m2) and retail component (2 500 m2), with parking on five basement and eight above-ground levels.

Property development executive Brent Wiltshire says the group hopes to have the building completed in 2011.

Portside will be built on a 6 500-m2 block, between Hans Strijdom avenue and Mechau street, along Buitengracht and Bree streets. The city sold a 3 500-m2 site to the Old Mutual group in May last year, for about R89-million, to make up the block.

Wiltshire says Portside will be an “elegantly proportioned, environmentally sustainable, mixed-use tower of 148 m in height”, in an area of the city where the surrounding spatial infrastructure of wide roads and public open spaces supports such high-rise development.

“The development and professional team is investing many hours on improving the rating of Portside against the current rating tool of the Green Building Council of South Africa.

“Already the electrical and mechanical engineers advise that the running cost per square metre of Portside will be lower than that of the benchmark, a 15-year-old office tower,” Wiltshire enthuses.

The building’s footprint will also be modest and shaped so as to maximise northern and southern orientation and minimise west and east exposure in a bid to raise the development’s electricity efficiency.

Tall But Green

City of Cape Town director: spatial planning and urban design Cathy Stone says that there has been significant and exciting innovation internationally on the development of ‘green’ tall buildings and certainly there is a lot of emphasis on such developments.

“There are, however, some fundamental realities about tall buildings, which detract from their becoming very green – for example, they require lifts, which three- or four-storey buildings don’t necessarily require,” says Stone. But she adds that there have been exciting innovations internationally to develop more sustainable and energy-efficient tall buildings.

“Suitable technology does exist and the city will encourage developers of tall buildings to explore alternative technologies and appropriate designs that contribute to mini-mising energy demand and consumption,” Stone adds, noting that proposed developments of which the electricity requirements exceed 100 kVA must obtain permission from the relevant electricity service provider.

But Poulsen says that there are no easy answers to this challenge. High-rise developments can use energy and resources more efficiently but can also put a strain on overall resources. High-rise developments can set a green building precedent with better use of resources and energy but this comes at an upfront cost, which needs to be recouped over time.

“The whole issue of sustainability is about a much bigger picture evaluation of the way in which resources should be used – short-term gain against long-term costs.

“More dense developments, in principle, use resources more efficiently, but this needs to be seen as the interrelationship between valuable land, the cost of development, affordability, available resources, infrastructure needs, public [versus] private transport, as well as economic and social needs.”

She notes that whether a development is high rise or low rise, or anywhere in between, is not the issue.

The quality of any urban environment is dependent on the long-term vision for the city, the urban design framework, the regulations, which govern the pace and type of development and the political will to attain that vision, combined with private-sector awareness of what constitutes good city living against development purely for the sake of profit.

This should ideally be seen as a collaborative venture rather than a conflictive relationship between public- and private-sector investment.

“I do believe that we have the expertise to do high-rise development in this country and we have professionals who are up for new challenges in terms of design, structure, technology, and green building issues.

“However, we definitely have a shortage of built environment professionals and there is some discussion between academia and government about how to provide more support and opportunities to educate more built environment professionals.”

The City of Joburg’s development planning and urban management executive director, Philip Harrison asserts that, for a high-rise to be green, the design and use of materials must take sustainability into account.

He notes that there are high-rise buildings in parts of the world that are highly energy efficient and ecoresponsible, such as in New York and Chicago.

“We will do our best through providing guidelines and through regulation to ensure that the new stock of high-rise buildings in Johannesburg is as ecofriendly as possible,” Harrison avers.

Urban Planning

But his department is also actively promoting higher densities across the city, and especially in areas that are well connected to existing and new public transportation networks because Johannesburg has one of the lowest densities of any major city in the world.

Harrison says that higher densities mean greater efficiency in the use of land and bulk infrastructure, more viable public transport systems, and also better levels of servicing for communities to support facilities such as schools, hospitals and libraries.

However, he is quick to add that increased density does not necessarily mean ‘high rise’. In many places, increased densities may mean walk-up apartments, or rental accommo- dation attached to owner-occupied houses. There are certain parts of the city where only high-rise development is currently supported, which include the inner city, and the precincts around the Gautrain stations.

High-rise development is obviously not beneficial in all areas as there are significant constraints in terms of geotechnical conditions, bulk infrastructure and road capacity.

Higher densities are more efficient in terms of the provision of services and infrastructure, and ensure that development takes up less valuable land.

“However, we cannot generalise as each type of infrastructure has its own optimum capacity. We need to look at every area and ascertain what can be supported in terms of power, water, stormwater and sewerage.

“Higher densities provided by high-rise development also provide the size of population to support high-order facilities including, for example, secondary schools and hospitals, and make public transport more viable by increasing ridership,” says Harrison.

High densities support the ridership required for public transport. In terms of land use, higher densities allow for the possibility of mixed-use developments. With mixed use, an ordinary citizen has access to a wide range of services and facilities, such as accommodation, schooling, clinics, retail, civic services and entertainment.

Don’t Spoil the View

Of particular concern to Cape Town is the protection of views, particularly of, and from, the iconic Table Mountain, which is also a World Heritage Site.

Cape Town, as a city, is not defined by its urban or built skyline and it is not intended that it will be so in the future. The Table Mountain skyline is the defining element that makes the city unique and views of it from within the CBD, as well as from afar, must be protected.
But Stone argues that tall buildings also often fail at ground level. This impacts negatively on pedestrian movement and the quality of the public realm by giving limited focus to place-making and the type of activities that occur at ground level.

“They are often conceptualised in isolation of the local context, with little attempt to achieve spatial integration because specific emphasis is placed on achieving iconic or individualist status, to the detriment of the overall character and performance of an area.”

She adds that tall buildings that generate additional bulk will also impact on infrastructure capacity, parking and traffic management, and should also be assessed in the context of the city’s future proposed densification strategy. Microclimate issues, such as overshadowing and wind, that directly influence the performance of comfortable streetscapes are of particular concern and need careful management within the Cape Town context.

Harrison points out that the most obvious challenge is congestion, as high-rise development must be associated with public transport or improved road capacity.

Green Lungs

“Significantly increased densities must also be linked to the provision of green lungs: the higher the residential densities, the more green space and public space must be provided.

“We cannot simply reproduce an urban jungle. Then there are real constraints in terms of infrastructure; existing infrastructural capacity can only support high-rise develop- ment in limited parts of the city. There are also geotechnical constraints: geology and soil conditions cannot support high-rise development everywhere.”

Poulsen points out that for this reason, the built environment that results from denser development needs to be considered carefully in terms of impact on sunlight, climate, orientation, public amenity and open space.

“A balance is required between built and unbuilt space, the scale of streets and the pedestrian environment, useable public space and the green amenity. Urban design is the framework that coordinates individual developments into a coherent and appropriate built environment. The denser the built environment, the more critical it is to have a good urban design framework to guide the relationship between existing and new development.”

Wiltshire assures that Portside has sought to address the issues of shadow, wind, lift speed, fire and safety. Portside has the advantage of being sited on three of the widest streets in Cape Town and there are large spaces separating the development from most of the surrounding properties.

In contrast to a squat building, Portside, as a tower, will cast a narrow shadow – and that in an area with wide streets. The shadow impact on neighbours has been tested through computer modelling over a 365-day period – the effect is minimal. In addition, a wind study has been conducted by the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research.

There will be dedicated lifts for the hotel and office tower and lift studies are being conducted to determine a benchmark for lift waiting times. As part of the focus on safety, lifts can be stopped every third floor to gain access to an emergency exit from within the lift – that is, without exiting through the lift doors.

But for the present, there is still no clear basis or protocol for determining whether a tall building is appropriate for, or beneficial to, the overall functioning of a city or for mitigating the possible negative impacts of a tall building.

South African cities are, therefore, contemplating policy frameworks to guide tall building applications.

Such policies would be both a protective measure and a means to ensure that the opportunities created by a new development of the magnitude and scale associated with tall buildings are optimised to improve the overall experience and functioning of the city for all its users.

Edited by: Martin Zhuwakinyu

^^That render looks sexy! Me want hi res!!!

Looks more like a model to me. Anyway that 80 storey is waaaaay out of proportion - more like double the size of the old Sandton tower.

Here's some timelines and interesting stats...

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Sandton booms
16 Nov 2008 - Inet Bridge -

Intro
Sandton City wants to attract an even larger chunk of the country’s R10.5bn annual cross-border trade with plans for a R1.7-billion expansion for the landmark centre.

SIMPIWE PILISO

JOHANNESBURG’S biggest shopping mall, Sandton City, wants to attract an even larger chunk of the country’s R10.5-billion annual cross-border trade — with plans for a R1.7-billion expansion for the landmark centre.

Liberty Property Development said this week the refurbishment would create additional retail space for new top-end retailers and stores.

Chief executive Caswell Rampheri said the project had been three-and- a-half years in the making. It includes a 30000m² extension of the mall which will take the complex to 158000m² in gross lettable area.

“It will entrench the Sandton City complex as Gauteng’s premier shopping destination and enable it to support the significant development and growth seen in this area, coming particularly from new residences and the construction of the Sandton Gautrain station,” said Rampheri.

“The retail extension will accommodate our existing key retail tenants such as Woolworths, Truworths, Edcon and Foschini, which have for some time been requesting additional space. There have been numerous inquiries from other local and international retailers.”

The interior refurbishment includes introducing more natural light, internal landscaping, and as many as 1000 additional parking bays. Andrew Bradford, a director at property consultancy Bradford McCormack, recently put the cost of building a single bay of basement parking at R90000.

Southern Sun’s Sandton Sun lobby will also be refurbished to include more dining areas and a rooftop restaurant.

Liberty spokesman Fiona Hannig said: “Out-of-date capital equipment such as lifts, escalators, air conditioning, parking equipment and building management systems will be replaced.

“The revamped complex should not only attract more shoppers, but should see them staying longer.”

Sandton City, which was first opened in 1974, has 300 shops ranging from international brands to local retail stores and boutiques.

Linked to Sandton City is Nelson Mandela Square with its six-metre bronze statue of the former president. It’s a fashionable destination with sidewalk cafés, fine dining and 90 exclusive shops.

According to the City of Johannesburg’s Tourism Strategy, an estimated 10% of sub-Saharan Africa’s 500000 retail tourists who visit Johannesburg each year, stop over at Sandton City for shopping.

Rampheri described the refurbishment and expansion as an “exciting project”. While the first phase is scheduled for completion in April 2011 — with 95% of construction completed in time for the 2010 Soccer World Cup — the second phase will include the development of residential apartments and an office tower on the corner of Fifth Street and Rivonia Road.

The third and last phase will include an additional hotel and more office space.

“It is the first step in a much broader vision for Sandton City and Sandton, which ideally would include the construction of a new office tower, an additional hotel and increased residential housing, further extending the Sandton City retail offering alongside a structural strengthening of the existing complex,” Rampheri said.

London-based RTKL Associates, an award-winning global practice of architects, planners, engineers and design consultants, has been contracted to the R1.7-billion project.

RTKL’s prospectus includes designing the Beijing International Sports and Exhibition Centre, the Gateway Shopping Centre in Um hlanga, Durban, and the new Twin Towers precinct in New York.

Hannig said the main construction contract had not yet been awarded.

“It’s in the tender stage and will include a 60% black economic empowerment participation target with mandatory use of SME and joint- venture BEE entities to ensure skills transfer.

‘‘The refurbishment will commence soon and is scheduled for completion in early 2012,” she said.

The work, said Hannig, would accommodate the expected increase in the number of visitors during the Soccer World Cup.

The rush for commercial space began in the mid- to late-’80s, when land in Sandton, Rosebank and Parktown was cheaper than that in the Johannesburg CBD.

Gauteng’s former finance MEC Jabu Moleketi once told the Gauteng legislature that the cross-border retail trade was worth R10-billion a year and continued to grow.

Four years ago, it was reported that more than 40000 people commute to the Sandton CBD every day.

In addition, an estimated two million shoppers visit Sandton City and Nelson Mandela Square each month, according to online newsletter Sandton Central.

City officials estimate that international holiday tourists, on average, spend between two and three nights of a 17-day visit to SA in Johannesburg.

According to the City of Johannesburg’s website, while in Johannesburg 9% of foreign tourists visit Soweto, 11% visit Gold Reef City, 10% visit Sandton City or the Rosebank Mall, and 3% visited MuseumAfrica.

Source: Business Times


http://www.eprop.co.za/news/article.aspx?idArticle=10862

this is from a RTKL brochure...

the revival of a prestigious city

Sandton City

Sandton City, built in the 1970s, is one of South Africa’s
most prestigious and well-known mixed-use developments.
Comprising retail, office and hospitality, the complex has
established itself as a hub of activity and attracts both tourist
and local visitors of all ages. Responding to the outdated
conditions of the development, the client commissioned RTKL
- selected as a result of a design competition - to redevelop the
existing site into an iconic new mixed-use attraction.
The design scheme features a multi-disciplinary approach
that seeks to maximise the value of the property by creating
a harmonious balance between existing structures and new
proposed buildings with adjacent public spaces. Sensitive to
the urban fabric, the proposed 310,000-SM plan offers a holistic
vision that includes contemporary retail, residential and office
components. To minimise disruption to existing businesses
and tenants, the redevelopment of Sandton City utilises a
comprehensive phasing schedule. Upon completion, the complex
will serve as a new landmark, offering exciting attractions in
which to live, work and shop.

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr41/southafricanguy/sandton_2.jpg

http://i468.photobucket.com/albums/rr41/southafricanguy/sandton_1.jpg

While the first phase is scheduled for completion in April 2011 — with 95% of construction completed in time for the 2010 Soccer World Cup — the second phase will include the development of residential apartments and an office tower on the corner of Fifth Street and Rivonia Road.
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‘‘The refurbishment will commence soon and is scheduled for completion in early 2012,” she said.

So what is the date then?

these are picture i took in the sandton parking area (the sandton drive one i think).

http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr351/vogel5555/29112008087.jpg

http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr351/vogel5555/29112008088.jpg

http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr351/vogel5555/29112008089.jpg

http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr351/vogel5555/29112008090.jpg

http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr351/vogel5555/29112008091.jpg

http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr351/vogel5555/29112008092.jpg

http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr351/vogel5555/29112008094.jpg

...and on the roof

http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr351/vogel5555/29112008094.jpg

So the 'extensions' have started?

by the looks of things.......yes

yeah saw that too on the weekend :banana:

hoorah indeed