Milwaukee's New Tallest

[Skyking2]

Milwaukee's New Tallest

While there's a fair amount of development going on in and around Downtown Milwaukee currently, there are also many proposals which seem stalled or going nowhere fast. Hopefully, some of the proposed projects will become reality in the near future. But in the meantime, let's dream a little. If you could build/design a new tallest tower in Downtown Milwaukee, what would it look like and where would you build it?

Density is a critical factor in a city's landscape, but there's no question that taller buildings can really transform a skyline and make it memorable and identifiable. The US Bank building (originally First Wisconsin, then FirstStar) has dominated Milwaukee's struggling skyline for over 35 years. So, in order to help achieve a more balanced and dynamic skyline, what type of signature tower would you build and where?

(Footnote: A business associate of mine from Charlotte, NC was in Milwaukee for the first time last month, and here's what he said as we drove into and around Downtown: "You don't have much in the way of taller buildings here, do you?" After noting the US Bank building as the only tall building, he reminded me of the many new, tall buildings under construction in Charlotte. He said, "I'm surprised. I figured a larger city like Milwaukee would have had more of a skyline.")

[MilwaukeeD]

Charlotte is the number one booming city in the country right now. Their office vacancy rate is literally .5%. Most of the midwest is somewhere between a 10-20% vacancy rate. In addition, all of the construction there is being done for just two companies: Wachovia and Bank of America.

Milwaukee isn't growing as quickly as Charlotte (nor is any other midwestern city, on a percentage basis), therefore, we don't have many major high-rise office proposals. Jobs = new high rises, not just the desire to have new high rises. Also, Charlotte drops off from 50-story towers to surface parking lots across the street. That's not necessarily better.

You know what else Charlotte has? Light rail (and it's beating all ridership estimates)!! Heaven forbid. If Milwaukee had a better way for people to get downtown without their cars, we wouldn't have to pay for a 2,000 car parking garage for every office building and we would see a lot more being built.

However, if I were to choose where one would be built, I would put it east of the river, north of Wisconsin Avenue...either the parking lot across from the Pfister, the Milwaukee Athletic Club site, or behind M&I.

[DooMer_MP3]

Since moving back to Milwaukee and living in the immediate "downtown" area, I've learned that a skyline is really of very little significance to a city. I'm more worried about things to do down here, and Milwaukee has added, and is still adding lots of that. Sure, a skyline serves as a nice first impression, but should be the last thing to define a city.

That said, several of the current projects (Moderne, Lake Pointe, Ghazi) would be great to add density and then add something that hits the 50+ mark to take the mark away from US Bank. Something cylindrical and glassy. The landscape of Milwaukee really changes things. There's times when the skyline looks sparse, and times when it looks quite dense.

EDIT - Good thread though. We need to talk about something because times are DEAD around here, right now.

[Cincinnatus]

Man, the thread title was a huge teaser for me. ;)

[bjkeys321]

Yeah, this was a big teaser for me too :D Our skyline isn't terrible, but it could be better. If you check out SSP or maybe it's here too, there was a fantasy Wells Tower proposal and I get a kick out of that :)

[araman0]

Since moving back to Milwaukee and living in the immediate "downtown" area, I've learned that a skyline is really of very little significance to a city. I'm more worried about things to do down here, and Milwaukee has added, and is still adding lots of that. Sure, a skyline serves as a nice first impression, but should be the last thing to define a city.


Exactly my thoughts. Milwaukee's downtown is one of the largest in the Midwest, and offers mile after beautiful mile of quality urban experiences. I've come to learn that the "urban experience" trumps height any day.

Between the urban environments offered by Milwaukee and its smaller brother Madison, Wisconsin's great cities do a wonderful job of offering more than initially meets the visitor's eye.

[MKECane]

I can't speak from a design perspective, as I have no idea what I think would look good. I'd like it to look modern and have lots of glass, though. Ideally, I think you'd want it east of the river, north of Wisconsin Ave, and sitting up the hill from Water Street, but as far from the US Bank building as possible and fitting that criteria. That way, it would hopefully fit in with the view from the lake, coming up from either 794 or 94, and from McKinley coming off 43. I suppose Ogden and Jefferson would be the best place to try it.

[qwerty44]

I know this isn't really the place for talking about proposals, and I havent heard anything about this for quite a long time now, but I remember the World Trade Center Wisconsin said it was considering building a structure of possibly 40+ stories, which would probably be the tallest in the city.

[bjkeys321]

are there any renderings out there?

[Skyking2]

Well, I suppose since I sarted this thread -- and, sorry, I didn't mean to "tease" anybody into thinking there was actually a new tallest coming -- I should offer my two cents. I'd like to see a mix-use building (especially since that seems to offer the best chance of any real height) of 45-55 stories, or about 650-700 feet. It would have primarily a glassy exterior, perhaps a blue or even a reddish color, and tapered to an interesting peak or top. In other words, not a box-top like US Bank, Chase, 411, etc. See Cinicinnati's newest tallest, Queen City Square. While the tiara top sort of cheats and adds about 100 feet of height, it appears art deco and should provide that city with a memorable signature tower...pretty nice, IMHO. And as for a location of Milwaukee's new tallest, I've long ago stated that I like the parking lot East of the Pfister on Jefferson. I think this general location would work best for a new tallest to bridge the existing skyline.

[mgk920]

I would put something in the 50-60 floor range in that block that held that westbound loop on-ramp at the pre-rebuild Marquette interchange (Clybourn/Michigan/James Lovell(7th)/8th), now surplus WisDOT property. Second-to-none visibility and access - you're staring right at it as you cross the I-43/94 'Highrise' Bridge northbound and several new off-ramps feed right into that area. That has got to be the most valuable single piece of surplus public land anywhere in the State of Wisconsin.

Mike

[cwilson758]

Man, the thread title was a huge teaser for me. ;)

:bash:

me too. I expected some shiney new tower glistening off of Lake Michigan!

[NeuBrew]

Tall buildings are so 80s man.

Seriously though, if you really look at the facts on the ground in Milwaukee they seem to be building at a sustainable rate -- but not overdoing it. In order to have a 50 story building, you'd need a tenant. First things first, who would that be?

Just curious though, do you drive a Hummer?

[Skyking2]

Tall buildings are so 80s man.

Seriously though, if you really look at the facts on the ground in Milwaukee they seem to be building at a sustainable rate -- but not overdoing it. In order to have a 50 story building, you'd need a tenant. First things first, who would that be?

Just curious though, do you drive a Hummer?

I agree that a major tenant, or two, is needed before any thoughts of a large office component can be considered -- ie. Lake Pointe Tower. I disagree with you, however, that tall buildings are "so 80's man." Are you suggesting that tall buildings are not being built anymore? I believe the facts support that there is most definitely interest in tall buildings these days.

Why is it germane to this thread as to the type of car I drive?

[Twoaday]

I'd be the first to say new skyscrapers don't equate to a vibrant city (Charlotte is a great example of this!)... But come on guys I think skyking just wanted to have some fun with this thread.

I'd like something like 40-story building on that jefferson/mason corner... but the first floor retail component has to work and I'd actually like to see it apartments at the lower levels and office higher-up.

[looksee]

If you think 1 is good, then 2 will do wonders:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/looksee/bigdeal.jpg

With apologies to CGII

[bjkeys321]

isn't the second building "the ugliest building in the world" even if it's not, i think it is...

[Skyking2]

If you think 1 is good, then 2 will do wonders:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/looksee/bigdeal.jpg

With apologies to CGII

Now this is what I'm talking about! It's nice to see imaginations running wild, and actually plugging in buildings to see how they'd shape the current skyline. Thanks...although, that pyramid building IS a scary-looking number. (Is that the one in Moscow?) Anyway, I appreciate your participation -- nice panoramic shot of the entire skyline, by the way!!

And, Twoaday, yes, I'd rather have a vibrant city with density than a bunch of glass towers without character and street-level activity. Speaking of which, I was Downtown last evening and made it a point to drive past the new "Bronz Fonz" sculpture at the Milwaukee River and Wells. It was around 7PM, and I was very pleased to see the amount of street life going on for a Tuesday night -- not only around the sculpture, but all over. Very fun to see a vibrant Downtown.

Anybody else have the notion and/or ability to sketch in some building into the existing skyline?

[looksee]

isn't the second building "the ugliest building in the world"...

Yup, that's how Google lists it.

...although, that pyramid building IS a scary-looking number. (Is that the one in Moscow?)

It's in friendly downtown Pyongyang, North Korea. Construction begun in 1987, and not quite finished yet. I was thinking of adding Joe Stalin's Moscow U., but I think this hotel captured the spirit.

[NorthernIL Mike]

Thats funny i was acutally going to do the same thing with the north korea tower lol such a weird and mishapen building.

[ThatGuy]

The Pyongyang Hotel is ugly....but I like it :nuts:

Anywho, here is what tower I would design.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/ThatGuy/Tower2-1.jpg

Sorry that its crooked...apparently I dont have any programs that can rotate my "paint" drawings (crooked in the first place cause I drew it off of graph paper) I am no architecture genius, as you can tell, but I love towers with spires, the Chrysler Building being my favorite.

So its not a great drawing, very simplistic, but I think the idea comes across. I envision this building being 70 stories (too tall for Milwaukee, I know) that combines old styles with the new. I would have a shiny chrome spire on top (like Chrysler) with the building being clad in grey brick, but the 4 rings at the bottom would be made out of glass, circular, that circle the building (I knwo that element doesnt come across in this 2d drawing)

I was also thinking that the last setback before the spire could instead be turned into some flying butress type arch, with glass elevators comming out the top, but I haven't had time to draw that up yet :P

As for the location, I think on the river would be nice, but who knows if there would actually be a plot of land large enough to place this thing there. I know its large. As I mentioned before, I have no architectural experience whatsoever, so I don't know if it would be feasible or not, but if I had the ability to design something with no restrictions on tenants, locations, height, or possibly even physics, then this is what I would make.

Oh, and I know that the sides don't have any detailing or anyhting, I haven't decided what would look best on it yet. It'd be a little more spruced up though.

[looksee]

The Pyongyang Hotel is ugly....but I like it :nuts:

Anywho, here is what tower I would design.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/ThatGuy/Tower2-1.jpg

Oh, and I know that the sides don't have any detailing or anyhting, I haven't decided what would look best on it yet. It'd be a little more spruced up though.

http://www.xihalife.com/images/smileys/sm02/35h/30.gif How about:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/looksee/looksfamiliar.jpg http://www.xihalife.com/images/smileys/sm01/35h/2.gif

[Minneapolitan]

This thread totally dissapointed me. But fun to imagine, I guess.

[Skyking2]

http://www.xihalife.com/images/smileys/sm02/35h/30.gif How about:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/looksee/looksfamiliar.jpg http://www.xihalife.com/images/smileys/sm01/35h/2.gif

Pretty damn clever!!

[Skyking2]

Well...this thread really took off...NOT!
With all of the creative dreamers out there, I'm surprised there wasn't more interest with this.

[araman0]

OK, I'll kick things off again with a black Milwaukee Spire.
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/8580/chispi2searsstyleru3.jpg
(Image by Diazz)

[Boatnurd]

That would have been ok if the picture you used was Milwaukee. Don't understand what you are getting at showing another city.

[araman0]

Just trying to kick off the conversation again... Just picture the tower itself. :)

[looksee]

Just picture the tower itself. :)

O.K. mate:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21XD78F1W4L._SL500_AA280_.jpg

[Boatnurd]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a232/boatnurd/DSC01861test.jpg

[Boatnurd]

Ok, hows this?

[araman0]

There ya go!

Lol @ Looksee. Looksee, will the residents be able to slide sown the circular slide to get to the bottom of their screw?

[bjkeys321]

haha that's actually doesn't look too bad, altough I think i'd prefer it to be on wells or mason, just in a more downtown location. Putting thew new tallest next to the old tallest isn't the best idea in my perspective :)

[araman0]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a232/boatnurd/DSC01861test.jpg

Actually, probably more like this:

http://www.arashakbar.com/milwaukeespire.jpg

[looksee]

I think i'd prefer it to be on wells or mason, just in a more downtown location.

That can be arranged.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/looksee/screwthis.jpg

and later that same day...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/looksee/screwthistoo.jpg

[bjkeys321]

:) thank you

[Skyking2]

Ok, while sort of goofy, at least you guys are getting into the spirit of this.
Does anyone out there have the ability (and interest) in drawing some of the proposed buildings into an existing skyline? Like the Catalyst, the Moderne, Lake Pointe Tower (for what it's worth :ohno:), Gokham's new proposals, Ruvin's building, etc...

[looksee]

Does anyone out there have the ability (and interest) in drawing some of the proposed buildings into an existing skyline? Like the Catalyst, the Moderne, Lake Pointe Tower (for what it's worth :ohno:), Gokham's new proposals, Ruvin's building, etc...

Are you altering the point (or pointe) of your own thread?

Say, why don't you take a shot at cutting, pasting, and kind of creating too? :?
Aw, go ahead. You might surprise yourself.

[bjkeys321]

Gokham's new proposals...

what proposals are these?

[exit_320]

what proposals are these?

The one next to 1522 Prospect and the 2 towers at Van Buren and Kilbourn

[Skyking2]

Are you altering the point (or pointe) of your own thread?

Say, why don't you take a shot at cutting, pasting, and kind of creating too? :?
Aw, go ahead. You might surprise yourself.

Or not. I honestly don't have a clue how to do that...
As for altering the point of the thread...I'm not sure I undertand what you mean. I'm just looking for any interesting renderings that anyone can put together for our viewing -- and dreaming -- pleasure.

[looksee]

As for altering the point of the thread...I'm not sure I undertand what you mean. :dunno:

I'd like to help you figure that out, but, as with the design work, I guess you just prefer acting clueless.

[Skyking2]

:dunno:

I'd like to help you figure that out, but, as with the design work, I guess you just prefer acting clueless.

:wtf:

Ok, enlighten me then...

[looksee]

http://www.zanyimages.com/Sorry/I%20didn't%20do%20it....jpg

http://www.pure-essence.net/stuff/geekyTshirts/dont%20succeed.jpg

[NorthernIL Mike]

This thread should be deleted It blows hard cold clamy **** :)

[CGII]

So I'm totally bumping this but I need to plug this 786' tower I designed a couple of years back...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3163/2328207064_872d8bbdcb_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3059/2328176274_47c257be0e_o.jpg

[looksee]

^^Looks nice.

Maybe try adding some of those Deco touches on the ground level pillars too.

(Sorry, it's the critic in me; it just can't keep itself stifled.)

[bjkeys321]

ahh I really like it. What location did you put this beast at? If you have time, I think it would be cool if you posted a shot of the skyline coming into the city from I-43. (By the Brewery and empty Park East) It might be neat to see this as the focal point of the skyline with US Bank in the background; just personal preference though. Good work!

[MilwaukeeMark]

ahh I really like it. What location did you put this beast at? If you have time, I think it would be cool if you posted a shot of the skyline coming into the city from I-43. (By the Brewery and empty Park East) It might be neat to see this as the focal point of the skyline with US Bank in the background; just personal preference though. Good work!

It would be nice to see some different angles and have it under different light... at dusk for example. I do like the building design but the base and crown are a bit less appealing to me than the streamline, blue glass mid portion. Maybe if you added street level retail space or a close up as to what the lobby would look like? And the crown - how would it be lit up at night? The daytime vantage point from Commerce St. makes the crown look a little out of place with the color scheme.

And what are you plugging it for? Fun? Or business? Just curious.

Feel free to use any of my Milwaukee skyline photographs in your renderings CGII if you'd like.

[Skyking2]

Nice work, CGII!! Now, this is what I was talking about when I first started this fantasy thread. I like the look of the building, and its slender design could possibly work out to about 1 million sq. feet of space -- about the same as US Bank.

I agree with incorporating the Art Deco look at the base as well. Two things,
first, perhaps this building is a bit too tall for Milwaukee's skyline...and it doesn't appear to be to scale with other buildings. At 786' it's approx. 184' taller than the US Bank. Can you scale it proportionately at this height, and aslo re-draw it at about 700'?

Second, I'd love to see this building (at around 700') on the lot just east of the Pfister, or next to the Milwaukee Athletic Club -- a site often mentioned for a new high rise. I think a new tallest in either space would "tie-in" the skyline nicely...at least east of the river.

Thanks for your effort!

[miltown]

Second, I'd love to see this building (at around 700') on the lot just east of the Pfister, or next to the Milwaukee Athletic Club -- a site often mentioned for a new high rise. I think a new tallest in either space would "tie-in" the skyline nicely...at least east of the river.

Thanks for your effort!


For once I agree with you Skyking2, that spot near the Pfister, and the spot next to MAC are both great locations for Milwaukee's Tallest!!

[Skyking2]

For once I agree with you Skyking2, that spot near the Pfister, and the spot next to MAC are both great locations for Milwaukee's Tallest!!

Thanks, however, I think businesses prefer a marquee street name on their address. Assuming the address of the proposed MAC property is Broadway, that street hasn't had the notoriety of, say, a Wisconsin Avenue. Or, the "across-from-the-Pfister" address would be Jefferson St. Again, not a real recognizable street compared to Wisconsin Avenue.

But, things do change -- not everything can be built on the "Ave." While I'm not so sure about Jefferson St., "Broadway" actually sounds big league enough for a law firm to call home. While I actually prefer the site on Jefferson across from the Pfister, I'd "settle" for North Broadway just fine.

A location that I thought would've been nice for a sizeable high rise is the SE corner of Kilbourn & Van Buren. But, someone put up that butt-ugly, two-story residential thing! That is an amazing location with high visibility, and look what sits there now.

Anyway, hopefully others with the know-how will join CGII and add to this thread. Can anyone do a skykine rendering by condensing the major buildings (15-stories and taller) downtown to form a more dense look? Milwaukee's skyline is quite spread out. It would be interesting to see what it would look like concentrated in, say, the area bounded by the lake, Milwaukee River, I-794 and Kilbourn.

[MilwaukeeD]

[QUOTE=Skyking2;39850580] A location that I thought would've been nice for a sizeable high rise is the SE corner of Kilbourn & Van Buren. But, someone put up that butt-ugly, two-story residential thing! That is an amazing location with high visibility, and look what sits there now.QUOTE]

There is still a proposal for an apr. 15-story apartment building on that corner, by New Land Enterprises. There is plenty of room left for a tower, as that townhouse parcel was very narrow.

[Skyking2]

[QUOTE=Skyking2;39850580] A location that I thought would've been nice for a sizeable high rise is the SE corner of Kilbourn & Van Buren. But, someone put up that butt-ugly, two-story residential thing! That is an amazing location with high visibility, and look what sits there now.QUOTE]

There is still a proposal for an apr. 15-story apartment building on that corner, by New Land Enterprises. There is plenty of room left for a tower, as that townhouse parcel was very narrow.

Thanks, yes, I'm aware of New Land's proposal, but 15 stories is...well, underwhelming -- especially as with residential floors. Also, New Land is a little scary. Watch how this thing unfolds. Then, let's see if they build anything that's worth a darn. NL has a bit of a history already...

[MJinOshkosh]

I'm going to float an idea, Why not reclad and renovate the US Bank tower? I am sure of you add an additional 4 story roof and a spire the US bank tower instead of being listed at 600 ft could end up taller than 700 ft or more. I am sure one of you guys could even come up with something to visulize how a renovated US bank tower might look like. I know that this could get done because of the reclading being done in Indianapolis and what was done years ago to the Republic tower in Dallas. So I ask why not do this to the US bank tower in Milwaukee?

[Avian001]

Milwaukee's "spread out" skyline could actually work in its favor. By simply adding a few taller buildings to the mix suddenly you have a whole new sense of scale to the city.

For example, taking CGII's photo and adding only 4 buildings to the original skyline - ranging from about 500 feet to 900 feet or so - you could get something like this:

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/6397/milwaukeereimagined02.jpg (http://img14.imageshack.us/i/milwaukeereimagined02.jpg/)

OK, easier imagined than done. But the point is that judicious additions to a city can really change perceptions.

BTW, I always though Milwaukee could handle spires on its buildings better than, say, Minneapolis. The latter is more modernist while Milwaukee could really go crazy with fun, sculpted crowns on its towers.

[Skyking2]

Milwaukee's "spread out" skyline could actually work in its favor. By simply adding a few taller buildings to the mix suddenly you have a whole new sense of scale to the city.

For example, taking CGII's photo and adding only 4 buildings to the original skyline - ranging from about 500 feet to 900 feet or so - you could get something like this:

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/6397/milwaukeereimagined02.jpg (http://img14.imageshack.us/i/milwaukeereimagined02.jpg/)

OK, easier imagined than done. But the point is that judicious additions to a city can really change perceptions.

BTW, I always though Milwaukee could handle spires on its buildings better than, say, Minneapolis. The latter is more modernist while Milwaukee could really go crazy with fun, sculpted crowns on its towers.

Very cool! Now we're getting somewhere. Nice job, although four buildings of this size would require probably 4 million sq. feet of office space. (US Bank has 1 million sq. feet, for example). But, this thread is all about "what ifs," and I like what you came up with. And, I agree, the spread out skyline would be impressive if filled in as you show. And, since there's no way to condense existing buildings, this is the way it is.

I think it would be interesting to see if someone could add even the proposed buildings-- or those floated recently --to the existing skyline, buildings such as the Moderne, Lakepointe Tower, the Chase addition, the Catalyst, the Palomar, New Land's Transera condo tower on Prospect, St. John's on the Lake (also on Prospect), etc. Looks like you're pretty handy with Photoshopping, Avian001...

[Boatnurd]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a232/boatnurd/CopyofDSC00721.jpg

Yea, yea, yea.... I know.... you see the same building in variations. But this could be the Northern Miami.

[Paule]

Milwaukee's "spread out" skyline could actually work in its favor. By simply adding a few taller buildings to the mix suddenly you have a whole new sense of scale to the city.

For example, taking CGII's photo and adding only 4 buildings to the original skyline - ranging from about 500 feet to 900 feet or so - you could get something like this:

OK, easier imagined than done. But the point is that judicious additions to a city can really change perceptions.

BTW, I always though Milwaukee could handle spires on its buildings better than, say, Minneapolis. The latter is more modernist while Milwaukee could really go crazy with fun, sculpted crowns on its towers.
I agree!

[Skyking2]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a232/boatnurd/CopyofDSC00721.jpg

Yea, yea, yea.... I know.... you see the same building in variations. But this could be the Northern Miami.

Very interesting. I remember when you first posted this a while back. Yes, sort of looks like Miami...or Honolulu. You know, if the Transera gets built, and once the St. John's tower is up, the view from the lake may be Milwaukee's best. Thanks for the submission.

[GarfieldPark]

Reminds me a little of Vancouver, from about ten or fifteen years ago. Pretty nice.

[perilouspete]

You know, if the Transera gets built, and once the St. John's tower is up, the view from the lake may be Milwaukee's best. Thanks for the submission.

Isn't the Transera all approved? Or is it just waiting in finance limbo right now?

[Skyking2]

Isn't the Transera all approved? Or is it just waiting in finance limbo right now?

As far as I know, the site has been approved, but I'm sure the financing is alltogether another issue. Hate to be negative, but I gotta believe the pre-sale of the 35 units has been mightily challenged by the economy and soft housing market. Look at how long The Moderne has been sitting in limbo until it gets enough units sold...more than two years? It seems, however, that St. John's Tower is all but ready to begin.

[bjkeys321]

I dunno, they said that Moderne was going to start construction by September 2009 at the sales center.

[brewman]

Just found this site asa I was looking for new building projects in Milwaukee because I'm sort of a skyscraper nerd. This thread is pretty cool and I hope people keep adding ideas. it would be kind of interesting to see what my hometown could look like with some more towers.

[MilwaukeeMark]

Just found this site asa I was looking for new building projects in Milwaukee because I'm sort of a skyscraper nerd. This thread is pretty cool and I hope people keep adding ideas. it would be kind of interesting to see what my hometown could look like with some more towers.

Welcome to the forum brewman. You'll find a ton of interesting info here for people like you (us) scattered throughout the skyscrapercity threads. A lot of us have been around for a while and all share similar passion for urban development. Views differ from time to time but it makes for good debate. Have fun looking around!