Austcorp has announced a new 70 storey mixed-use tower in the Brisbane CBD, comprised of 30 levels of office topped by 40 levels of apartments!

I'm not sure, but it sounds like it will be replacing the Baroque Tower proposal, because it is on a large site on Margaret Street, and will be replacing a 49-level apartment project. Read the article and tell me if you think this sounds right?

I posted this in Skyscraper and Skylines as well, and mentioned that by my estimations this would result in a tower of about 240m, since the BCA (Building Council of Australia) minimum heights are around 4m floor-to-floor for office (30 x 4=120) and 3m floor-to-floor for residential (40 x 3 =120) - so 240m!

Anyway, exciting stuff! Here's the article:

Austcorp plans $400m tower
Nov 05
Kathy Mac Dermott

Sydney's Austcorp yesterday announced plans for a $400 million mixed-use development for Brisbane's CBD after acquiring one of the city's last major sites.

The company could build a tower of up to 70 levels and has earmarked the commercial and retail components for inclusion in a new property trust.

The managing director of Austcorp, Trevor Chappell, said the company had a target of listing on the Australian Stock Exchange in 2005-06.

It is proposed that the company and its diversified property trust would float as a stapled entity, similar to Multiplex.

In the lead up, Austcorp has been on a bullish expansion push, demonstrating a particularly strong appetite for Queensland properties.

Austcorp last week bought the 5478 square metre parcel in Brisbane from Singapore's Bloomberg Inc, as foreshadowed in The Australian Financial Review.

Austcorp paid $24 million for the site after an earlier sale to local developer Phillip Canham struck in the middle of last year failed to proceed.

Mr Canham was to pay $21 million for the land which has frontages to Mary and Margaret Streets, and had announced plans for a 49-level apartment complex.

The sale to Austcorp represents a massive profit for Bloomberg which acquired the parcel in 1993 for just $6 million from Kern Corp's receiver and Commonwealth Funds Management.

The deal also represents Austcorp's first foray into Brisbane's CBD market.

Austcorp's proposal for the site represents the company's most ambitious high-rise undertaking, having previously completed projects of between eight and 12 levels.

Mr Chappell said Austcorp was looking to build up to 30 floors of office space, topped by 40 levels of units. In total the project could include up to 250 apartments.

Mr Chappell is hopeful that construction will start in the middle of next year.

"What attracted us to this property is its twin uses," he said.

The apartments are timed to enter the market from mid-2006.

"The residential market in Brisbane is still strong."

Austcorp yesterday announced a 170 per cent rise in its full-year profit to $14.1 million and an $800 million increase in its development work book to $2 billion.

The company has been aggressively expanding its Queensland presence and recently announced plans for a $120 million residential and golfing resort on the Bundaberg coastline.

In September Austcorp gained full control of its $500 million Coomera Waters estate on the Gold Coast after buying out its joint-venture partner, Henry Walker Eltin for $22 million.

Earlier this year Austcorp acquired a 6800 sq m site in the northern Brisbane suburb of Newstead which is earmarked for 22 detached freehold residences.

Why cant we have Baroque and this 70 story monster!?!

I was really looking forward to Baroque because it is such a unique design that would add immensely, in terms of character, to the skyling...but a 240m building sounds very hard to resist. Hopefully the design is brilliant if we do lose Baroque.

Just did a quick scan through the Baroque threads and this tower is undoubtedly replacing Baroque. The Brisbane developer that was proposing Baroque - Phillip Canham - is the guy that Austcorp have bought the site from.

In retrospect I dont think Brisbane had a large enough market to support the lavish appartments proposed by Baroque. The values were extreme.

God I hope this tower has a brilliant design, somthing unique like Barouqe.

What happened to the new 200m hieght limit? If it goes ahead Brisbane could have a taller building to roof than Sydney :-)

Originally posted by finn
Just did a quick scan through the Baroque threads and this tower is undoubtedly replacing Baroque. The Brisbane developer that was proposing Baroque - Phillip Canham - is the guy that Austcorp have bought the site from.

You are right Finn. Unfortunately Baroque is dead.

Presumably Phillip Canham did not get enough presales to justify continuing. Makes you wonder how big a loss a developer would make on cancelling such a project, particularly when they don't own the land and therefore make no profit from increased land values.

Would this appear taller on the skyline than Emerald?

Originally posted by m01lim
Would this appear taller on the skyline than Emerald?
There is a 250m height limit currently for Brisbane. Emerald reaches RL248m, so just makes it under at 229m above street.
I reckon the Baroque site would have an RL of approx 10m ,so theretically it could go to 240m then it would be safe RL at 250m!

The Baroque is roughly even with Waterfront Place, so whatever WP's RL is, it should be roughly the same as Baroque.

If this does go ahead though, it will surely be the tallest building in Brisbane for at least another 15-20 years.

Originally posted by BrizzyChris
The Baroque is roughly even with Waterfront Place, so whatever WP's RL is, it should be roughly the same as Baroque.

If this does go ahead though, it will surely be the tallest building in Brisbane for at least another 15-20 years.
the RL for waterfront is only5m.
I think if this project goes ahead at 240m+ it will be tallest forever!! not 20 years?

The Austcorp website says they are planning a landmark building for this site. So fingers crossed!!!!

I don't care how good baroque was, 240metres makes anything even half decent look good. I agree with Cul, 240 will make it the tallest for a very long time.

Just imagine...240 is like 60-70 taller than CP1. Wow.....

Originally posted by Lord Mayor Tim
The Austcorp website says they are planning a landmark building for this site. So fingers crossed!!!!

I don't care how good baroque was, 240metres makes anything even half decent look good. I agree with Cul, 240 will make it the tallest for a very long time.

Just imagine...240 is like 60-70 taller than CP1. Wow..... And it's located at the Southern end of the CBD.
The blocks between Alice and Margaret St have like a 12 storey limit (Cul can probably tell us) so this sucker will absolutely dominate that end of town forever.

Don't underestimate the potential support from BCC for this project......sure it's probably way above future height limits for that block, but given City Hall's animosity for the developers of Emerald, don't be surprised it they get behind a taller tower that's likely to take some of the shine off of Emerald, and steal it's tallest building status.

Great find finn, this sure is interesting. Brisbane now has an outside chance of four 200m+ buildings. Go figure.

well i cant remembering hearing the new mayor ever complain about emerald...so hopefully he doesn have a hatred towards them... and hoping that the bigger block size and the fact that includes a large amount of commercial space should help persuade the council. not to forget its more central CBD location as compared to Emerald out on the fringe

Well, if we are losing Baroque I'll be sad, but there is nothing like a new tallest to make you feel better.

why would they want to build something like that when it's not a prime site. Sure the site is big but can't they pick a better location.

Originally posted by CULWULLA
There is a 250m height limit currently for Brisbane. Emerald reaches RL248m, so just makes it under at 229m above street.
I reckon the Baroque site would have an RL of approx 10m ,so theretically it could go to 240m then it would be safe RL at 250m!

Technically, under the old / current regulations.....a tower can go above 250M AHD, but they have to get approval from CASA, which is a lot more pain and money and time, so nobody bothers. Seems strange to have a 2 stage approval process like that. I had a couple of debates over this with a friend's partner who is a planner at the BCC;)

I agree....30 + 40 would just get to 240M above street, or thereabouts....or about the same RL as Emerald.

Baroque would have been good as something different, but it always seemed to be a bit too "strange"

I think it is great that they are proposing a multi-use tower - good stuff!! Hope the design is good:D

Felix, how much more prime do you want? - this is a block away from Waterfront Place, close to the gardens and river and Albert Street....perfect for what they are proposing. I think Emerald is a much worse site....

I quickly modelled up the tower at 240m. And made a quick sketch render. If it were to go ahead at that height it would have a nice infilling impact upon the skyline when seen from Southbank.

In fact along with Bris Square, Casino Towers and Metropole this side of town is beginning to look half decent.

The Austcorp tower is shaded grey.

http://www.geocities.com/brisbane_australia2000/BrisModel/031104b.html

^^

Thats great Brisbane2. Do you have one looking from Kangaroo Point over the river to Waterfront Place and Riparian? Would be interesting to see just how tall it will look against WP and Felix.

Prime site in the Courier Mail today (page 44) reports that Austcorp are considering several options including one tower of up to 80 levels or two of up to 40 levels each, and are looking seriously at a mixed use building between 60 and 80 levels.

Brisbane Lord Mayor Tim Quinn is said to have indicated general support for a tower limited to a height of 250 metres.

Austcorp hopes to announce details of the proposal by Christmas with construction expected to start in mid to late 2004 with completion in late 2006 or early 2007.

NOoooo we Dont want two useless 40 story buildings...Put in an 80 story monster!!! :bash:

Its Good to see the Mayor and BCC are in favor of a 250m, 80 story tower!!!

I just hope that Auscorp builds it and not the twin 40 story development.

jt

Originally posted by JayT
Its Good to see the Mayor and BCC are in favor of a 250m, 80 story tower!!!

I just hope that Auscorp builds it and not the twin 40 story development.

jt Yeah, it's not every day you read an article where the developer actually quotes a building height, and states that he has the support of city hall.

This ones looking quite solid.

Originally posted by CULWULLA
the RL for waterfront is only5m.
I think if this project goes ahead at 240m+ it will be tallest forever!! not 20 years?
Well the reason I said 15-20 yrs was because, who knows what the planning policies will be by that time. For all we know, there might be 200m all over the suburbs.

Originally posted by Rusty
^^

Thats great Brisbane2. Do you have one looking from Kangaroo Point over the river to Waterfront Place and Riparian? Would be interesting to see just how tall it will look against WP and Felix.

OK Your wish is granted.

A full skyline spread from Kangaroo point. The Auscorp tower is huge!!! (its modelled at 240m tall)

Click here --> http://www.geocities.com/brisbane_australia2000/BrisModel/031107a.html

The above image is zoomed in real close for detail.
The following link takes you to a smaller version of the same image which allows you to see the whole skyline at once on your screen. (resolution of 1024*768 is most suitable)

Click here --> http://www.geocities.com/brisbane_australia2000/BrisModel/031107a_small.html

Woah awesome job Brizbane2. It looks massive! I knew it was gonna be tall, but that looks great. Hopefully it will get built. It sounds possive with those words coming from Tim Quinn!

Looks awesome Brisbane2!

I really hope we dont end up being dissapointed with a tower much shorter than 240m or the 2 40 story towers. But this is Brisbane, so maybe they need to do a feasibility study first. lol

Oh I was thinking if Aurora is costing 250million what is Austcorp going to do with 400million dollars? Hopefully spend every cent on a world class design and building. Does anyone know how much Riparian is costing?

Basically if the proposal is generally in accordance with the provisions of the planning scene, i feel that the lord Mayor (and the Council) would have no issues with the devlopment.

Emerald basically pushed the planning scheme as far as it went and beyond and also took advantage of some loopholes, hence the resistance.

Another thing in the Auscorp proposal's favour is that is has a signficant commercial office space component (30 floors) which offers much more signficant long term economic benefits to the CBD as opposed to a pure residential building. The council will love that.

Originally posted by Lord Mayor Tim
Just imagine...240 is like 60-70 taller than CP1. Wow.....
Now that *is* an exciting propsect. :D

I'm amazed at the level of development u/c & planned for Brisbane atm - several genuinely tall buildings that would make a significant impact even in Sydney or Melbourne and numerous smaller towers throughout the CBD and inner suburbs. :cool:

Gerbilus, I know I've got a filthy mind but I gotta ask............ What is going on with your Avatar??

Gerbilus, I know I've got a filthy mind but I gotta ask............ What is going on with your Avatar??


Hehe that's a small part of the film clip for the song Cherry Lips by Garbage

Ahhh Shirley Manson, she is my little skyscraper builder.

I am a bit skeptical about this development....
Yes, it is bloody huge and will focus the skyline to the centre, but as the report stated, they are still in a phase where there are too many options... In other words, they haven't looked too closely at the feasability of each...

I am holding out for some renders...

What are the chances of the developer going over 250m? and getting Casa approval?

If this is the last building to be built before the 200m height limit comes into force I'd like to see something a little taller, around 300-350 metres. Say half office-half residential.

Brisbane2, how on Earth did you make that mesh? It's very detailed! did you model all that? must have taken ages!

Originally posted by CaptainJackSparrow
What are the chances of the developer going over 250m? and getting Casa approval?

If this is the last building to be built before the 200m height limit comes into force I'd like to see something a little taller, around 300-350 metres. Say half office-half residential.

Brisbane2, how on Earth did you make that mesh? It's very detailed! did you model all that? must have taken ages!

I was thinking that same thing, especially with the council behind it. However the 200m limit will just be like hte 250m limit now, so developers in future can still apply for casa approval, can they not?

Well it's up to 80 levels right?

So let's say half office, half residential:

That is:

Thats (office) 4mx40=160m + (residential) 3mx40= 120m

160+120=280metres to roof!

And a roof feature + 20metres = 300m to roof

Add a spire + 25 metres

Total height= 325m:)

...and we have a new tallest to roof and spire for Australia;) Wishful thinking perhaps but it's fun to speculate;)

Originally posted by CaptainJackSparrow
Well it's up to 80 levels right?

So let's say half office, half residential:

That is:

Thats (office) 4mx40=160m + (residential) 3mx40= 120m

160+120=280metres to roof!

And a roof feature + 20metres = 300m to roof

Add a spire + 25 metres

Total height= 325m:)

...and we have a new tallest to roof and spire for Australia;) Wishful thinking perhaps but it's fun to speculate;) lol, yeah, I can't see the developer pushing his luck too much. The tower may have a roof height around 250m and then a modest spire could take it higher.
BCC are unlikely to get pissed about an antenna/stick. Some sort of decorative spire would be nice for a change, let's just hope the basic design is schmick.

True, it maybe.

Brisbane Lord Mayor Tim Quinn is said to have indicated general support for a tower limited to a height of 250 metres.

now!

...why would the Mayor say he'll support anything "'limited' to 250m" unless Austcorp were thinking higher, that's a strange thing to say on the Mayor's part, sounds to me like he's trying to tell them to keep it under 250m, but it could infact go higher.

Secondly, the 250m limit in Brisbane is somewhat exaggerated, I was talking to a lawyer friend about it, it's infact illegal to have 'hard' limits in Queensland, though anything over this height might meet with council dissaproval and need Casa clearance over 250 or 300m (I forget which one). Emerald's case related to the size of the land portion vs height or something, but the land site for the Austcorp tower is huge by comparison. In any case he made it clear that is someone really wanted to build even a 400 metre tower he could try his luck.

Thirdly, 80 stories, even with only 30 stories office space won't fit under 250m. 30stories of officex4m=120m + 50stories of residential x3m =150m. Total height = 120+150 = 270m to roof!

It doesn't fit!

Even with NO office space 80 storeys of Residential = 240m! And they want up to 40 stories office space!

Fourthly, don't forget Pikey's rumour about a 100 storey tower for Brisbane...;)

I'm not saying that it will be over 240m, but certainly it can't be ruled out, I hope it is though;) In any case, fun to speculate;)

It's been said before many times - 250M AHD is the council limit before they have to get CASA approval. True - emerald did use a loophole in the regs to get there height - 30% effective site coverage requires no floor area limit. The brisbane central WTB proposal was approved by council I believe, so there are precents for taller proposals. Problem is when a proposal does not meet council regs my the book a thing called "impact assessment" comes in which means more time to approve a scheme and lots of other organizations like CASA get involved....

I am however extremely skeptical about this one. It is funny that the biggest / tallest schemes always seem to get proposed at THE END of property cycles. It's just like the 80's all over again really;)

..... and look how many mega tower proposals from the late 80's early 90's actually got built!

Well they are meant to annouce plans b4 the end of this year so like we'll see soon enough, maybe Culwulla could give Austcorp a call?:)

he could... or i could go in and see them, i work on the floor above their brisbane office at upper Mt Gravatt. not sure if they will tell me anything but its worth a try....

have they actually desinged the look of the tower yet ???? hope it wont be some boring battleship grey concrete eyesore.

Nothing really new here, but all the same:
http://www.propertyreview.com.au/archives/05112003/headline/brisbane_major.html

Originally posted by CaptainJackSparrow
Well they are meant to annouce plans b4 the end of this year so like we'll see soon enough, maybe Culwulla could give Austcorp a call?:)
ill give it a go tommorrow, see what kind of info i can extrude from them.;)

Remember to tell them the guys at Ozscrapers say:

a.)to build to 350m minimum:)

b.)to make it an even better design than Baroque:)

c.)stick an observation deck up top:)

...um that's all;)

Originally posted by CaptainJackSparrow
Remember to tell them the guys at Ozscrapers say:

a.)to build to 350m minimum:)

b.)to make it an even better design than Baroque:)

c.)stick an observation deck up top:)

...um that's all;)
lol, i cant really see it going higher than 230-40m but if they top it with a spire it could go much higher.

Originally posted by CULWULLA
ill give it a go tommorrow, see what kind of info i can extrude from them.;)
well would you believed i talked to project manager for the tower!! he was VERY hesitant to give out info as the towers design is actually going to council this week for accessing. he said it was looking at being approx 50-60storeys tall with half office/half apartments. I asked him if it would become tallest in Brisbane and he said it would probably equal the height of Riparian and Aurora tower at 200m high!.
He also indicated it most likely WILL have an observation deck!
So good news and bad?
he said for me to contact him early next year for more of an accurate indication of height/shape/design ect.
I asked him when will it start? he said late 2004.
there you go!:D

Thanks once again Cul!!! God knows how many people in this industry you know!

I think its good news! 200metres will put it in the top 5 (if emerald gets built).

As for the observation deck I don't really care either way....although it will attract more people to that end of town.

Atleast they didnt go for the two towers option.

I'm much more interested in how it looks! I want world class in Brisbane. For once!

I was expecting higher but 50-60 storeys is good enough. I Hope the observation deck does get approved, we need one.

Thanks for the info Cul

Thanks Culwulla, awesome job!

hmm, 50-60 stories, that's very disappointing, at 200m it's hardly any taller than Baroque, and I doubt it'll be a nicer design. What happened to the 70 and 80 storey ideas? At least it's got an observation deck but pft, not a tall one.

*sigh* Not happy Jan!!! Give me Baroque over this any day!

200 would make it about 40 metres taller than Baroque.

And help correct this 'unbalanced' skyline of ours.....

no worries guys, yeah i think its a great posi for a landmark/observation scraper. Over looking park and centre edge of CBD.might be a while before we see an agreed design.
anyway they seem eager to proceed with project.:guns1:

Yeah but to antenna RTL Baroque was like 198m, and it was a bitchin design.

So maybe this one is a little bit taller but it could be a concrete box for all we know, and it's no taller than Aurora, Riparian or all the other stuff going up right now, hardly pushing the envelope.

I still think it's terribly dissapointing, even the mayor said they could go to 250m! So whilst one developer like Emerald fights tooth and nail to get to the height limit, guys like Austcorp can only come up with 50 storeys potentially!? Heck, it could even be less than 200m!

This was a good site for Brisbane's tallest, and there aren't many of those sites left, a real opportunity wasted IMO.

BTW what is the point of placing an observation deck on a tower so short? I see no benefit in this rather see it as a great waste of time and money.

Why is Australia so non-progressive with respect to towers and building heights? We are going backward from where we were at last century and it seems to be getting worse. I don't see any fancy 400m proposals rather just a glut of tragic mid hight towers that serve no iconic value for Brisbane or Australia.

The local government in this country really needs to start changing their thinking while too the developers need some vision lest we all suffer with boring lack lustre skylines from now to eternity.

Originally posted by CULWULLA
well would you believed i talked to project manager for the tower!! he was VERY hesitant to give out info as the towers design is actually going to council this week for accessing. he said it was looking at being approx 50-60storeys tall with half office/half apartments. I asked him if it would become tallest in Brisbane and he said it would probably equal the height of Riparian and Aurora tower at 200m high!.
He also indicated it most likely WILL have an observation deck!
So good news and bad?
he said for me to contact him early next year for more of an accurate indication of height/shape/design ect.
I asked him when will it start? he said late 2004.
there you go!:D

Great news Culwulla! Thanks for your effort in bringing it to us.

I can't believe so many people are dissapointed in another 200m tower. OK so its not 250m but who cares - our current tallest is only 174m and we are getting 4 new towers taller than that and several that are going to equal it.

Be happy with what we have and don't get so appathetic, I know other cities would be going nuts if another 200m tower were proposed.

We are very lucky here in Brisbane!!!

jt

It's all a matter of perspective, if you think your getting a 100m tower and you get 200m then you're happy, but if you think you're getting 240 and you get 200m it's dissapointing.

Morale of the story: don't get your hopes up!;)

Originally posted by CaptainJackSparrow
It's all a matter of perspective, if you think your getting a 100m tower and you get 200m then you're happy, but if you think you're getting 240 and you get 200m it's dissapointing.

Morale of the story: don't get your hopes up!;)

Do what I do, have no hope till you see a crane:D

jt

I have thought about this a bit and the fact that the developers are hesitant to comment means that they are probably developing something out of the ordinary. I mean they might want to release it to the press properly instead of it leaking out by accident. They also might want council to look at it first before it goes on public display.

The fact that it will have an observation deck in my opinion means that it must be going to be quite tall. I remember talking to the developers of Aurora and they were equally hesitant to give any heights or information about it.

In order to get maximum economic output for the site they would want to go as tall as possible - perhaps even to the 250m mark.

I don't know but I think this will be something big an I usually have a good feeling about these things.

Remember this post for later on;)

jt

I agree JayT!

Lets look at it even if it is 'only' 60 levels split half and half.

30 office @ 4m = 120m

30 residential @ 3m = 90

Thats 210m. Add the observation deck and a'significant' retail component as the developer has mentioned....and this one could easily be 230m.

Now thats what I call a scraper!

I hope you guys are right! :)

Yeah, thanks for the info Cul.
All I want to see is a good design over 200m. I'll cry if it's 199m.
lol.
I'm not reading into the developers comments. On one hand they could be being conservative, not wanting to be seen to be developing a large tower. On the other hand, maybe they just want to suck up to city hall and build something around 50 storeys that complies with the new height limit (even though it doesn't apply yet).

Originally posted by Mr MacPhisto
Yeah, thanks for the info Cul.
All I want to see is a good design over 200m. I'll cry if it's 199m.
lol.
I'm not reading into the developers comments. On one hand they could be being conservative, not wanting to be seen to be developing a large tower. On the other hand, maybe they just want to suck up to city hall and build something around 50 storeys that complies with the new height limit (even though it doesn't apply yet).
you dont know how right you are! The guy i was chatting to about the new design was 'hinting" it would more like 40storeys than 60 storeys. So maybe we might eben be looking at 180m high.
I reckon if its 180m it should be massive and have an ESB profile with stepped top (for observation ect) and spire reaching well over 200m! I still cant see it being higher than the antenna on 249m Riparian though!
I still think if Emerald gets approved this will be brissys swansong as heights go! 229m/77st is nothing to be sneezed at!;)

Sigh, figures, no guts no glory.

My favourite Brisbane skyscraper Baroque will probably end up being replaced by a short, ugly, stumpy 40 storey concrete devine-ish box!

I'm just writing this development off altogether, it's sounding worse and worse by the day.

I have some interesting insider news regarding this tower.

The tower has not been designed yet.
Currently Austcorp is conducting a sort of a mini-competition between invited architectural firms. The winner is to become the eventual architectural consultant. A competition is good news for this project.

The brief asks for designs to be a minimum of 200m tall. Also asks for provision of supermarket, shopping arcade linking Mary and Margaret, investor-rental apartments, residential apartments, office space. Also asks for a strong ESD emphasis.

At this time the tower is being provisionally referred to as simply 'Mary & Margaret St.'

I will divulge more intersting tidbits when the time is right.

Originally posted by Brizbane2
I have some interesting insider news regarding this tower.

The tower has not been designed yet.
Currently Austcorp is conducting a sort of a mini-competition between invited architectural firms. The winner is to become the eventual architectural consultant. A competition is good news for this project.

The brief asks for designs to be a minimum of 200m tall. Also asks for provision of supermarket, shopping arcade linking Mary and Margaret, investor-rental apartments, residential apartments, office space. Also asks for a strong ESD emphasis.

At this time the tower is being provisionally referred to as simply 'Mary & Margaret St.'

I will divulge more intersting tidbits when the time is right.

Thanks for the promising news Briz2. Keep us informed.
Ummm, what does ESD stand for??

ESD = Environmentally Sensitive Design

or

ESD = Environmentally Sustainable Design:)

sounds great.....finally a developer with the right ambition

- a full line supermarket would be a bit wasted there with macarthur just up the road
- interesting that they have set a MINIMUM height limit
- the link between the two streets is a great idea
- good to see some ESD ambitions, but it will be interesting to see how far this aspect is carried in the final product

now all they need is the right market timing....

Ummm, what does ESD stand for??


Ecologically Sustainable Development

Originally posted by gerbilus
Ecologically Sustainable Development

depending on the developer..... it can also mean:

"Economically Sensitive Development"

which means Devine are "ESD savvy":D

Given how aweful most devine developments are

how about

Environmentally Senseless Devlopment :)

back in mid DEC when i chatted briefly to project manager of this project ,he indicated it "will be 40-60 storeys mixed use tower with observation levels". i asked about height and he just said "approx 200m"."It wont be the tallest in brisbane but one of the tallest"!
he hoped the design will be finalised sometime 2004 and work will start late 2004/early 2005ish.

Some more info.

Austcorp has asked for:

- 20,000m2 office space - they expressed a desire for 2000 metres per floor plate.
- 300 apartments

Also interesting to note that a 45 storey residential tower was designed for this site back in late 2000, that never went through to completion. That scheme was for Bloombergs - the developers of Riparian Plaza.

20,000 square meters of office space and 300 apartments is quite huge isn’t it? Riparian only has 50 apartments and about 30,000 square meters of office space (don’t quote me on that as I can’t remember exactly)

jt

yeah 20,000 is a fair bit jayt. but at 2000 a floor that means only 10 levels.

does this mean we're set for a short fat tower?

Originally posted by Lord Mayor Tim
yeah 20,000 is a fair bit jayt. but at 2000 a floor that means only 10 levels.

does this mean we're set for a short fat tower? Maybe the commercial portion will be fairly large, with the residential component much slimmer (allowing for a pool, entertainment areas etc...on the 11th floor/roof or whatever it is).

Originally posted by Mr MacPhisto
Maybe the commercial portion will be fairly large, with the residential component much slimmer (allowing for a pool, entertainment areas etc...on the 11th floor/roof or whatever it is).

Yeah, sounds quite possible. We may be in for a short fat commercial bottom-part, with a tall slender residential tower rising from that. Of course this is just speculation. It's a little dissappointing I guess... Baroque would probably have been better then this, but let's wait and see.

thought i might let you guys in on a bit of a scoop! I was chatting to a fellow model maker today and he mentioned he is working in a "mixed use" skyscraper for Brisbane which will reach 250m above ground! I thought wow! that must be the landmark tower Austcorp are planning? They are trying to get it approved before the 200m height limit comes in soon.
Ill let you know of anything else when i can!
cheers

We can only hope. Im trying to be positive but I've heard this all before......:dunno:

not what the model maker was saying!:sly:

I have no reason to doubt what 'you' are saying Cull.
Fingers crossed...........

For people that don't know that area where the tower is supposed to be built, it will dramatically changed that part of the CBD for ever. It is sought of flat around there apart from one or two towers. A 250m tower sticking its head out around 100-150m towers will look awesome there.

the mm also said the bldg starts as office component with 3.8m floortofloor and reduces to apartments 3m flootofloor.
Hopefully he can send me something to show but i reckon its hush hush atm as its comp time. But i reckon this one will definatley be the landmark Brisbane needs and will be there tallest for manmy years(probably forever due to 200m height limit.

hmmm, interesting.

I must say, it does sound a lot like the Austcorp proposal. In which case, it isn't hush hush. Spill your beans.

This couldn't possibly be anything other than the Austcorp proposal.
I'm sure BCC are keen not to have Emerald as the highest building in the city.

At 250m, this one restores the balance.

Cheers Cul, that's great news. Imagine Brisbane with 4 200m+ towers.

Great news, I hope they include an observation deck. I wonder if this is intended as the Baroque replacement on the same site.

so when can we expect some pics or a press release?

That would mean Brisbane would have a taller building than Sydney! lol

Sounds good, Brisbane is BoOmIn BiG tImE!

Originally posted by CULWULLA
thought i might let you guys in on a bit of a scoop! I was chatting to a fellow model maker today and he mentioned he is working in a "mixed use" skyscraper for Brisbane which will reach 250m above ground! I thought wow! that must be the landmark tower Austcorp are planning? They are trying to get it approved before the 200m height limit comes in soon.
Ill let you know of anything else when i can!
cheers

Cull, if you were speaking to this guy and he told you he was working on this project ie: making up a model........... he would have some design drawn up. Sooooooooo, YOU of all people would of naturally asked him for some pics or drawings........................ Spill your guts mates !!!!

Thanks Cul.

There are so many people up here on the edges of their seats for this one. I know its gonna be big and as you said in a previous post it will contain an observation level. I think this will be a landmark tower for sure.

Very exciting!!!

jt

Originally posted by NCC1701D
Cull, if you were speaking to this guy and he told you he was working on this project ie: making up a model........... he would have some design drawn up. Sooooooooo, YOU of all people would of naturally asked him for some pics or drawings........................ Spill your guts mates !!!!
he is going to ask his supervisor if he is allowed to talk more or post pix on it, but i reckon his boss will say NOOOO!!!
So i reckon wait a bit longer and it will come out in a press release as comp winner for new tower in brisbane!
;)

Fair enough. Some things have to remain confidential.

Compitition winner?

Its going to be a proper tower tright not something some 1st year grad students wild idea?

I suppose that could be a good thing...

Originally posted by Rusty
Compitition winner?

Its going to be a proper tower tright not something some 1st year grad students wild idea?

I suppose that could be a good thing...
oh yeah, some BIG architects are included for this baby!
Soem well known, some not so well known;)

im liking the sound of this one, all sounds very positive. fingers crossed people

Originally posted by CULWULLA
he is going to ask his supervisor if he is allowed to talk more or post pix on it, but i reckon his boss will say NOOOO!!!
So i reckon wait a bit longer and it will come out in a press release as comp winner for new tower in brisbane!
;) Yeah, there's no point screwing up a good "confidential" working relationship is there?
This is a big enough scoop as it is.
All we have to do now is show a little patience and wait for the eye candy.

" eyecandy " it will be, if there is a 250m tower to gaze up at . How many stories are we talking about ?

Originally posted by cranerider
" eyecandy " it will be, if there is a 250m tower to gaze up at . How many stories are we talking about ?
the Austcorp manager quoted somewhere between 60-70 storeys mixed use! not sure if it means 250m to roof or 250m including architectural feature-ala-spire ect.

Please, please, 250m to the roof!

I hope it looks like the Rialto in light blue or something on the lines of that.

I was actually thinking the other day about potential sites for big towers in Brisbane, and the only sites I could think of that could hold a 200m+ tower, would be the Georgian site, the remaining Qld Place site, and possibly on top of the Riverside Pier - between Riparian and Waterfront Place.

Wow awesome. Lets all just pray this goes ahead. It seems like Brisbane is really reaching critical mass and slowly maturing as a city. It better put those two perth buldings to shame once and for all. LOL :D

Originally posted by BrizzyChris
I was actually thinking the other day about potential sites for big towers in Brisbane, and the only sites I could think of that could hold a 200m+ tower, would be the Georgian site, the remaining Qld Place site, and possibly on top of the Riverside Pier - between Riparian and Waterfront Place.

I heard a couple days ago from a developer big-wig, that the site you are referring to, which is owned by Stocklands, cannot be redevloped for another 10 years, due to the current leasing arrangements.

That means that this site will be coming onto the market at around the time of the next boom in the CBD cycle. That equals a better chancce for something big on this site.

Originally posted by Aussie Bhoy
Please, please, 250m to the roof!

Ive seen the brief for the Austcorp tower. And I really dont think that there is enough gross floor area in the brief to make a tower 250m to roof. It looks more like a 190-210 metre building to me.

Hi all… I work on the floor above austcorps’s brisbane office. As I was leaving today I had a look through a window (tinted) into their premesis and saw “from mary street” on a poster placed facing out. There was only one tower and looked big… the floor plans reminded me of waterfront place a little… will have a closer look again tomorrow, hopefully longer than 10 seconds so I can confirm.

Originally posted by Inzaghi
Hi all… I work on the floor above austcorps’s brisbane office. As I was leaving today I had a look through a window (tinted) into their premesis and saw “from mary street” on a poster placed facing out. There was only one tower and looked big… the floor plans reminded me of waterfront place a little… will have a closer look again tomorrow, hopefully longer than 10 seconds so I can confirm.

You can't leave us hanging like that hehe! I wanna know now... give me the address and I'll break in lol j/k

:guns1: :colgate:

Can't wait to hear from you 2moro then...

fuck what is wrong with you people? half of you live/work close to the cbd. find out austcorps adress and go to there office. im sure they wouldnt mind!iv done it a few times here and im only 14!

BTW a shitload of you have digicams yet brisbane/ SEQ pics are quite scarse

Originally posted by Inzaghi
Hi all… I work on the floor above austcorps’s brisbane office. As I was leaving today I had a look through a window (tinted) into their premesis and saw “from mary street” on a poster placed facing out. There was only one tower and looked big… the floor plans reminded me of waterfront place a little… will have a closer look again tomorrow, hopefully longer than 10 seconds so I can confirm.

Ahem - what building do you work in? - its not that I want to go and see this picture I just want to get to know my fellow forummers better;)

Oh and what floor was this picture on?
jt

Well here is what i got in about a minute...

-> 20,000 NLA Commercial space
-> 100 Dwellings
-> 10 Levels of Podium not including the above (full of retail and dining)
-> no GFA on the particular block
-> 160 parking spaces
-> There was something special about the top 10 levels, can't remember.
-> There was no mention of total level or height of building

Hope that helps... There was one small wire frame of the tower and in my opinion it looked pretty good, the one word i would use is "commanding".

Don't get all cranky if that info is a little wrong... im just a humble accountant...

Oh yeah the address is 17-19 Mt Gravatt Capalaba, Ground level :)

Originally posted by Inzaghi
Well here is what i got in about a minute...

-> 20,000 NLA Commercial space
-> 100 Dwellings
-> 10 Levels of Podium not including the above (full of retail and dining)
-> no GFA on the particular block
-> 160 parking spaces
-> There was something special about the top 10 levels, can't remember.
-> There was no mention of total level or height of building

Hope that helps... There was one small wire frame of the tower and in my opinion it looked pretty good, the one word i would use is "commanding".

Don't get all cranky if that info is a little wrong... im just a humble accountant...

Oh yeah the address is 17-19 Mt Gravatt Capalaba, Ground level :)

Awsome! Thanks heaps. I never get out to Mt Gravatt very much.

100 dwellings isn't much - hope there is just two per floor:)
jt

Originally posted by Inzaghi
Well here is what i got in about a minute...

-> 20,000 NLA Commercial space
-> 100 Dwellings
-> 10 Levels of Podium not including the above (full of retail and dining)
-> no GFA on the particular block
-> 160 parking spaces
-> There was something special about the top 10 levels, can't remember.
-> There was no mention of total level or height of building

Hope that helps... There was one small wire frame of the tower and in my opinion it looked pretty good, the one word i would use is "commanding".

Don't get all cranky if that info is a little wrong... im just a humble accountant...

Oh yeah the address is 17-19 Mt Gravatt Capalaba, Ground level :)
the brief i got from a local model maker is that the bldg was slender, it rises from a podium (which you mention),
it has apartments levels and office levels (which you mention),
the top ten floors are "special", i was told they will consist of restaurants/observation/convention ect.
this is definatley the conceptual design which they are trying to decide on. cant wait for the "unveiling" of the son of a bitch!
hopefully it will be atleast 230m.

Some of these points contradict the details as set out in the project brief - a brief that I have seen and read, and which I know has been used in the design of several tower proposals that were presented very recently to Austcorp.

In that brief:
Commercial - 20,000 NLA over 10 levels
Retail - 1500m2
Residential - 300 Apartments, including skyhomes at the top levels.
Carparking - approx 350

Either the information seen by Inzaghi was for an outdated, smaller site study tower or it is in fact the final tower design. If it is the latter then Austcorp has just wasted a lot of their own time and money, not to mention the time and money of the architects and consultants involved in the recent mini competition.

I really don't think that we can draw any conclusions about the tower at all, until its all unveiled.

i agree brisbane2... the drawings which i saw are on the back of a portable white board (hence facing out)
the ones on the other side (board room) are prob more up to date... i will keep an eye on it.

What happended to my fav Bris tower, Baroque.
Disspointed>(

Originally posted by jag
What happended to my fav Bris tower, Baroque.
Disspointed>(

http://skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=86740&perpage=25&pagenumber=2

:D

Austcorp has a website:

http://www.austcorp.com.au/

They now have 'some' information on the tower - see Margaret and Mary streets in the Queensland section.

Should be a good place to watch.

jt

Refers to development as an integrated residential, retail, office and hotel complex. Value $400 million. "World class tower development"!

Now the question, how many meters does $400 mill buy :colgate:

wasnt riparian only $250 mil? i assume 400 buy a little bit more then a riparian class building

Noticed today that the car rental firm on this site has closed. There was also a soil testing drilling rig on site.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/johnthay2/03apr04margaret1.JPG

any news?

promising signs.

??

Managed to get another very quick look at this puppy last Friday, the spire reaches to "BCC Height Limit" at 250m, I would say the roof isn't to far below prob around 230 - 240. It looked a tall skinny tower getting thinner as it got higher, not sure if that is completely true tho as I only got one perspective on it.

Hope that gives you all something to feed on for a while!!

Inzaghi, when the fuck are you going to get a photo of this thing. You come on here and tease the shit out of us about once every two months..... pics man pics................... :)

hehe, I love wogs.... pics you say, that would be quite impossible!! all the diagrams are stuck onto the Austcorp board room windows facing inwards. Im on the outside looking at the back of them. I was only able to get a good look at the diagram coz the sun shone perfectly through the pic and gave an outline of the actual diagram, good enough to read writing on it.

One day I’ll go in there and get a better look, as for pics.... prob not.

All I can say is go down there and have a look for your self.

Sorry to tease.

mmuuwwhhaa!!

promising signs.

I now realise that the above photograph was taken a while ago.

Blimey this website is slow today. Buchans seem to be designing another run of the mill design for this site. Not much more info than that at the moment.

Hey, im new here..

This would be awesome for brisbane i think.
Something interesting i noticed was the Q1 project costs 350 Million. Im no expert, but an extra 50 million squashed into a shorter tower should mean something special?

I hope it goes ahead. Id like to see the skyline getting bigger.

Have ya seen these groovy things :tongue4: Some news about Briz Council wanting a gateway or icon building, this would certainly do the trick.

So nothing neww on this one Seems to be forgotten ?

no, its still go ahead ive gathered from scattered comments read throughout the forum

yeah, it sure is still a goer. These "landmark" towers take time to eventuate. I mentioned it will be 2005 before we see any final design and the project will commence later in 2005 with 2006ish completion.
patience everyone.;-)

Not reffering to the final design, but do you have any idea when they will know of a ~pretty~ definite height?

Is it likely to go over the 250 metre mark? if the council is acknowledging its a landmark, they should be quite leniant in letting it get up to maybe as high as 300? (i can dream, cant i!)

The developers ought to hold their proposal until after Q1 is finished. The Gold Coast will have a spectacular new icon, and another tourist attraction that Brisbane lacks (observation deck). That, and the status of being home to our tallest tower. Some jealousy might get people thinking the right way.

that is true.... but at the same time im sure the coucil, and the planners are already aware of that.

I'd just like to see a "local derby" in the scraper stakes.

Though it was never very likely, imagine if the 445m Brisbane Central tower had been built, back in 1987. The "tallest" war would have accelerated around the world. At least, Melbourne would now have a super Grollo tower for sure.

its true. I only learnt about it recently too. Got a hole in the ground... so close! Is the current mayor pro development?

Yes, as long as tunnelling is incorporated into the scheme.

Newman was quoted on the news as calling off Quinn's 200m cap.
It's all about building an appropriate tower for the site it's on from now onwards.
The only down side is the State Government is about to try and kill off Emerald.

Inzaghi - Have you had a chance to see any plans since then.. or has anyone else mode their way over to the Austcorp HQ to check it out?

Macphisto: I dont know if it is a good ora bad thing.. If it spurs alot of other 200-300m buildings, rather than just Emerald, in the long run it would have been good, but if this scares off developers it will just be a shit outcome

Cul.. Merge this with the other "250M tower for BRISBANE!" Thread? and call it "Austcorp Tower" or something?

I'm planning to go down there shortly... and when I say shortly, it could be more like a few weeks... I have to wait until I'm on an early start so that I have time to get out there during the day, and I can't see myself getting any until at least mid-late July.

oh well.. ill look forward to your discovery. i hope its bigger than 250m

With the 245m SOUL tower looking to go ahead now in GC, I'm really hoping that this Austcorp tower will at LEAST be 246m to roof. It would be terrible to see GC have 2 taller buildings than Brisbane. :)

dont be so dull, its a landmark! it needs to be 300 to roof!!!!!!!!!!!! then GC will have 0 taller than us. (and if they gonna be gay about their spire on Q1... well.. lets slap a spire 60 metres up on the top of austcorp!)

even better build it 296 metres to roof and then stick a 2 metre spire on it so that it beats Eureka :P

The Auscorp Bldg will be no more than 230m to roof. If there is a spire that will go to 250m. lets have a reality check! lol
250m is nothing to be sneezed at!

Yes 250m is nothing to sneeze at, but your talking about - to spire - I think that it should at least be to 250m to roof. If GC can do it, then Brisbane can.

How do you know that Cul? if it really is going ot be a landmark... wouldnt they want to ... make it a landmark? 230 metres to roof wont stand out that much (im not 'sneezing at it') but with the other 200+ buildings going up it will just blend in. wouldnt we want it to stand out and be completly unmissable?

ATM CP1 is what.. 20-30 metres taller than waterfront? and you cant even tell. so this would need ot be substantially bigger to be a landmark

Thanks for the reality check CUL! I believe they are still working on the 250m height restriction for the design of this building. A landmark building doesn't necessarily need to be a TALL building - it could be something that is architectually significant (for example Baroque, the previous building planned for this site). And at $400 Million, we should be expecting something reasonably spectacular for that - although refer to CUL's previous reality check...

Thanks for the reality check CUL! I believe they are still working on the 250m height restriction for the design of this building. A landmark building doesn't necessarily need to be a TALL building - it could be something that is architectually significant (for example Baroque, the previous building planned for this site). And at $400 Million, we should be expecting something reasonably spectacular for that - although refer to CUL's previous reality check...Let's not forget the towers location. Anything over 200 metres will absolutely dominate views from all but parts of the North and North-East of the city.

@ blend

CP1 is only 14m taller than waterfront.

but i reckon, with emerald unlikely to go ahead austcorp should go for 250m so that ppl suddenly dont think emerald sounds very tall and it does go ahead :D

Since the only other threads on this tower are "Tower replacing Baroque?" and "250 M Scraper for BRISBANE!!!" i decided to make a new on.

I decided to call up Austcorp this afternoon. I expected to be told to go away and not bug them lol, but they connected me through to "Natalie" who is working on the project. Anyway, she tells me that both of the people who could help me were out of the office till Wednesday, and i should call back then.

Heres to hoping they will give me the info! :cheers:

This one could be very exciting!!!

I think they may be waiting for all the 'emerald' stuff to die down first before releasing a new tower.

jt

I honestly expected them to tell me that they couldnt release info.
Suprisingly they were very co-operative.. Hopefully when i call back on wednesday, one of those 2 guys who are working on it will be happy to release information to me.

We have been a bit short of info on this one, it will be nice to find out what is going on.

I decided to prepare a bunch of Questions to ask..
So any questions people want answered, put them here and ill ask.

1. What will the height be?
2. How many floors?
3. How many Floors Res. & How many Office?
4. Will there be a roof feature?
5. Will there be a viewing deck?
6. Will there be Resturants at the top?

What else?

ive already chatted to project manager a few months back.
*he said its very early design stage and will be mixed use tower up to 230m high.
*It will consist of 50-70 storeys.
*It will have a large podium and then have office accom in lower part of tower and apartments in upper slender section.
*there will be a public observatory and "may" have a spire or archiectural feature.
*It will be a Brisbane landmark.
*It will commence in 2005 and be completed in 2007.
i posted all this is old thread.
Blend, i know you mean well but they wont tell you much. I actually know the model makers that built one of the comp models and they signed a confidential agreement to keep quiet.
Ive also contacted BCC planner and they didnt tell me anything either.
patience! before you know the news will be out!

As stated it is in the design stage, and may easily have changed.
I am going to try to find out either way.

bump.

blend, ive merged all 3 threads. its better that way. no good starting yet another thread on same subject taking up precious space.
anyway.yes the design will be going thru alot of changes. It will be evolving into a DA stage application. There was a comp, so the judges will make a desicion on design and maybe go for a combination ect.

i did suggest that long ago lol. But better now than never!

And anyway yeah, Ill be calling on wednesday whether you think i should or not. And i think it only fair to share what i find out with people here, and also give them a chance to ask me ot ask specific questions.

sorry, was a bit harsh... *removed previous comment*

who are you calling an idiot?

blend . i just think you might be wasting your time. sometimes devlopers are fine with "bits" of info here and there but i couldnt get jack out of them!lol
good luck

Doesnt it suck waiting! I think im not going to look at this web site for about 6 months, maybe by then something might finally happen.

No 6 months is a bit harsh, It's just ive been waiting for some progress with emerald for about a year. I hope this one goes ahead without any delays

lol cull, i still would like to try.. not meaning to sound rude. I undertsand what your saying, but id still like to attempt myself.

andy - lol yes. Id like to see something about Emerald or Austcorp. (preferably something good)

i talked to austcorp yesterday and they have nick named this project M&M.- mary & margaret tower.lol
the chief in charge has to get back to me.so no info yet

Did anyone notice the Helicopter last night - it was at dusk just as the sun was going down and the lights were coming on.

Was walking home throught the Botanic Gardens and this helicopter came over and planted itself exactly over the M&M site, it was about 250 meters up and it slowly rotated for about 15 minutes directly over the site. It then flew over and around the city for another 10 minutes or so before heading back to the M&M site where it remained for another 10 or so minutes - directly above!!!!

I had a good look at it as I walked through the city and if the helicopter was taking pictures of proposed views from the upper floors then this city is in for a treat - there was someone taking pictures as the door was open!

From the position of the Helicopter, and walking though the city I had a pretty good idea of where Austcorps new tower may get to on the skyline.

Its gonna be awsome!!!

jt

nice work JayT... can you get a picture and show us about where the heli was?...

how massive does it look like its gonna be to u? did the height of the heli suprise you or did u expect the tower to be that size

well that figures... I was leaving work the other day and was greeted by a photographer coming out of the austcorp board room, once again the renders were in full view as was a small model.

shouldn't be long now till the shroud is removed!!!

you again lmao. I have never had contact with u but i saw ur posts as i was reading thru this when i first joined. when will u get pics from in the boardroom !@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what does the model and renders look like? Glass? Concrete? flat facades? balconies on resi section? (hehehehe)

nice work JayT... can you get a picture and show us about where the heli was?...

how massive does it look like its gonna be to u? did the height of the heli suprise you or did u expect the tower to be that size

If I took photos they be of open air so.. you know.

I am not a great judge on height but the heli would have been well over the 200m mark. It was at least another half the height again of waterfront place so 160 + 80 = 220 meters high.

I got to see the heli from several different vantage points - if it is representative of the top it will TOWER over the park and it will look AMAZING from Eagle St Pier.

jt

well that figures... I was leaving work the other day and was greeted by a photographer coming out of the austcorp board room, once again the renders were in full view as was a small model.

shouldn't be long now till the shroud is removed!!!

Oh god the wait is killing me!!!

jt

I'll have to get around to taking those photos one day hey... hmmm

Any descriptions or approximate height inzaghi?

Thanks.

I think, m01lin, that JayT approximated it from 220-250m hovering. MOST LIKELY taking views to sell the apartments, which we cna now assume are on top (logical) of the offices. If theres going to be a roof feature the buildings will end up 240+ in my opinion.

ive already chatted to project manager a few months back.
*he said its very early design stage and will be mixed use tower up to 230-250m high.
*It will consist of 50-70 storeys.
*It will have a large podium and then have office accom in lower part of tower and apartments in upper slender section.
*there will be a public observatory and "may" have a spire or archiectural feature.
*It will be a Brisbane landmark.
*It will commence in 2005 and be completed in 2007.
i posted all this is old thread.
Blend, i know you mean well but they wont tell you much. I actually know the model makers that built one of the comp models and they signed a confidential agreement to keep quiet.
Ive also contacted BCC planner and they didnt tell me anything either.
patience! before you know the news will be out!
this all the info i ave been given.
I acually met the model maker last week at council who made one of the comp models for 220 marg months ago. he still tight lipped about it and wouldnt give out anything except that the spire went to 250m height limit. so
i think were in for a major scraper for brissy.
but as jayt said, the suspense is killing us.
please austcorp let some info out!

phew. Spire to 250m is awesome! thanks for that Cul. lets hope its a well integrated spire, not some stick like Q1's (which looks good, yes, but id prefer somehting that melds into the building) somehting like Chryslers but not... if u know what i mean

I hope the councils stupid planning guidlines dont effect this tower. :bash:

as previously stated, its right in the CBD, on a nice big site, and fits the height limits. should be fine!

you guys are classics!!! sorry i haven't got any photos, i can understand how you all must be feeling.... Ausilencer, mate you should get down to Mt Gravatt one afternoon for a look - give me a buzz. hehe.

On the renders.... just to tease a little!! There is a photo taken from where you come out from under the vulture street overpass driving inbound to the city... all i can say is this one makes a MASSIVE statement, driving in from that side of the city will never be the same.

On the render the tower does have a smallish spire (20m is my guess), I’m pretty sure there are balconies and there is glass, don't ask for color... the photo was b&w.

Read my previous posts if you want more info... or cul's. I’ve been reading this forum for years and if anyone knows he does.


Cheers

what was the spire? a crappy stick? a nice feature?

and i hope the mix the balcs and glass well :D

so when do we see a pic and please i hope its not plain battleship concrete grey looking.

i hope its not plain battleship concrete grey looking.
Or worse, devine beige! :puke:

luckily its glass

remembering also the height of 250m i was given was to its "RL". All archietcts only speak heights in "RLS".
Im pretty sure its only 5mRL at Margaret Street, thus height to spire will be approx 245m. So this could be its height to spire? Its height to roof would also make it approx 225m -230m?

therefore the height to roof will be about 235m going by Izaghi's estimate of a 20m spire.

This will give us a taller building to roof than both perth and sydney :P :D

Or worse, devine beige! :puke:

For me, any building, which requires painting is not good. I would much rather see a cladding of sorts. If, during construction, you are asking yourself, "what colour will they paint this?" - yuk. :puke:

My information is that the building's name will be Vision. Sounds good to me - I am looking forward to finding out more about this one.

My information is that the building's name will be Vision. Sounds good to me - I am looking forward to finding out more about this one.

Vision!

Where did you get that info from - what source?

BTW welcome to the forum.

jt

The name Vision is now on Austcorp's website. Nothing else yet - just the name change!

hmmm Vision? i suppose the name has a positive outlook? When Sunland Tower changed to Q1 i thought it was a silly name but now im used to it.
Vision Tower sounds ok?.

yep, it is def called Vision now. Not such a bad name, i dont think. Personally i think its alot better than "Margeret and Mary Street Tower" hehe. M&M doesnt sound to bad but it makes me think of Devine resi towers lol.

excellent to see that things are happeneing (name change, JayT seeing the heli)

Um..... I don't think it is called "Vision" - I think the article may just be put in a section which is referencing the vision of the company. Where it is heading etc.

ok, maybe not. "Vision" just seems a little, well, crap.

"Vision" sounds a little tacky and grandious to me, i think I liked M&M more. I hope it lives up to its name :P

Vision sounds geared to the residential market ie the resi component of the building. I can't imagine the office component also being called 'Vision".

this by SydneyDude:



Saw this on tradingroom.com.au

Havnt seen any other posts for this site. Anyone know what this is about???


Plans for Brisbane's biggest building
Source: BRISBANE, Sept 8 AAP
Published: Wednesday September 8 2004, 2:15 PM

Developers tomorrow will unveil plans for Brisbane's tallest building.

National property group Austcorp Group Limited plans to build an 80 level tower rising 250 metres between Mary and Margaret streets in the Brisbane CBD.

The $650 million residential, commercial, retail and tourism complex will also feature a two level observation deck.

Architectural firm the Buchan Group has designed the building to be erected on a 5,500 square metre site. advertisement

advertisement

But the developers will have to run the gauntlet of the Brisbane City Council and the Queensland government as well as potential objectors.

Developers of the proposed 77 storey Emerald Tower in Brisbane's CBD are still awaiting approval more than two years after announcing the project.

In July this year the state government seized planning control for the Emerald Tower project, proposed for a site at 550 Queen Street in the CBD.

If it wins approval, the Austcorp development would become one of Australia's tallest buildings, behind the Rialto Towers (251 metres) and the Eureka Towers (297 metres) in Melbourne.

The world's tallest apartment block, the 80 storey Q1 tower, is being built on the Gold Coast.

The Australian projects are still dwarfed by the world's highest buildings - China's 457 metre tall Chongqing Tower and the Petronas Towers (450 metres) in the Malaysian capital Kuala Lumpur.





YAY ITS ANNOUNCED TOMOROW. i cannot wait. i am exploding with anticipation!

WE HAVE A RENDER!! This is from Austcorps website. It's definately called Vision.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v376/Oriolus/VisionRen.jpg

It looks awesome. It's so dominating. But whats with that little white square?

It will be 72 storeys with observation deck on the 60th level.

The fact that it has an observation deck makes the name Vision more understandable.

OOOHHH YYYEEAAHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GREAT WORK ORIOLUS!

love it.. want a bigger render though!


From the site:

At 72 Stories, Vision will be Brisbanes tallest and most beautiful building, Incorporating Retail, Commercial and Residential space.

It will be a defining statement in architectural design and innovation.

Vision is more than just a tall building, it is a verticle villiage designed around the needs of the people who live there as well as Inner city brisbane residents.
Its large retail plaza will effortlessly connect Mary and Margaret giving Brisbane a new and Vibrant pedestrian precinct.

Not only does vision create new design standards in commercial and residential space, It also gives Brisbane its first public observation deck. From the 60th level, this observation deck will command 360 degree views as far as the eye can see.

Vision has been designed by people, for people, Giving back to the city of Brisbane a new standard of inner city living.







I estimate that the ob deck will be between 190 and 220 metres. Cant wait to go up lolol!

seems wierd how observation is so far down from roof?
I still think the "250m" is RL. This is height limit atm. So im guessing its 245m with observation at 200m.
no doubt we will get exact stats soon!
cheers

yes, 245 is about right. 42 resi, 30 office.

42 x 3 = 126
30 x 4 = 120

120 = 126 = 246m

Even at 210m the Ob deck is never going to be built out down that end of the CBD. I'm guessing most people will go for the view over the southside and east over Waterfront Place towards the coast.

I was surprised to hear Kevin Seymore state "theres an 80 story tower planned for 105 mary St" on tonights news.

Yeah they just mentioned 80 stories on Channel 9. Campbell Newman said it was a good project but has concerns about shadowing over the botanic gardens. That render shows it completely dominating that end of town, it kinda looks out of place, need Emerald to balance it out now ;)

campbell newman is a moron.

This map has strait up being north.

If the sun goes east-west, and were on the bottom of the planet, this is my guess??? the shadow could extend further maybe but honestly. it isnt much of the park, and not for much of the day.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/Blend/shadow.jpg

someone put the pic on SS.com?

What the hell is wrong with brisbane...overshaddowing? Who gives... Councils can be serious assholes. They seem to be discouraging development of the city. Say this building is rejected because of the overshadowing of the botanical gardens...which i doubt is hardly even used, what about development along the river, the site next to waterfront place? Will that also go to waste? The whole thing seems like complete bullshit really. :bash:

Surely BCC wouldn't reject something like this. It'll be such an icon & an observation deck is something Brisbane could really use. Surely to reject it on grounds of overshadowing Botanic Gardens would be unreasonable - if they did have concerns about this wouldn't the appropriate way to express it be with appropriate height limits. To reject Vision on those grounds would be to show a disregard for the current town planning requirements. Then again that didn't bother them with Emerald.

^Shadows don't go exactly East-West. The Earth has a 22.5 degree seasonal tilt (or something like that) which is why half the year is warmer (closer to the sun) than the other half. That's why the sun and planets appear a little lower in the sky in winter.

Still, there is a 22 floor (i think) building on the corner of Alice and Edward which has a far greater impact on the gardens than Vision ever will.

Another 80m on WP will not create a problem for anyone. There's nothing but scraper canyons East and West of the site anyway.

Brisbane's own 2IFC :okay:

And yeah what's this crap about shadowing? Because the tower is near the CBD's southern end, its shadows can never affect much of the city (unless Earth is knocked off its axis). Even in winter the gardens will hardly be touched. And so what if they are? :toilet:

I think it will get the go ahead, the only worry is some extreme nimby carry on.

Can't wait to see some more pictures.

Ive read through the high rise section of the City plan. The council did all of these shading studies back when they first drafted it. The plan says that you can build to 250AHD on the north side of Margaret St (the side that Vision is on). And you are only allowed to build to 6 storeys on the blocks between Margaret and Alice. If the council was prepared to legislate this when they published the cityplan, I dont see why there has to be new debate now.

Its just wasting ratepayer money, and it will frustrate another private developer. This is one thing that I hate when new councils and governments come in. They often feel the need to repeat the same surveys and studies that were performed by their predecessors only a short while earlier. And Campbell is gaining quite a nice reputation for this practice. The green bridge being the most prevelent example thus far.

Campbell Newman is now my sworn nemisis. He needs to leave this city and never return.

im gonna poo in his face

your right brisbane2, i cant see overshadowing being an issue. At Sydney city council one of the main jobs im allocated is to shadow test new DA's. We test for shortest day of year (June22) between 12-2pm sometimes 9am-3pm. this is worse case scenario. The parklands or predestrian malls arent allowed any "addional" overshadowing during these times.Most Sydney scrapers now are designed with sun access plane form, which is ridiculous.
But i reckon Vision sounds like it will be ok, especially if Austcorp have already done there homework of site analysis.Im sure BBC wont reject this, this is too good for Brissy and its people! Its not just another skyscraper its a landmark or icon even for the CBD and it will give a signature structure to Brisbane which it lacks.The CBD really deserves this, !i remember reading in an architecture mag how Brisbane has suffered without reall tall skyscrapers, due to silly strict guidlines for past 20 years, now the planners realize this and are letting many new highrises go up.
Vision will actually give Brisbane a "vision" and thrust the city into a major CBD!

It is worth keeping in mind that Newman has come out in favour of this proposal, at least on the tv news. There is probably a good public health benefit in very tall buildings casting shadows as it will reduce our skin cancer rates! So the greater number of tall buildings in the CBD the better.
Please don't take my comment seriously.

i was aware the council was in support from a while ago... but when newman comes out with ridiculous things like that it just makes me hate him.

This doesn't sound good:

CBD projects fast-tracked
Jeff Sommerfeld and Ryan Heffernan

Courier Mail 08sep04

TEMPORARY development restrictions proposed for Brisbane's CBD will affect as many as 12 potential sites in the city that have been acquired by developers for future projects.

Many of the sites have been acquired over the past year, and redevelopment projects for most of these sites are at various stages of planning.

Several of these have been fast-tracked during the past few days in an attempt to get ahead of Lord Mayor Campbell Newman's proposed Temporary Local Planning Instrument announced last Friday.

The TLPI would mean new projects are assessed on impact rather than on compliance with Brisbane City Council planning ordinances.

In further controversy over the proposed changes, Cr Newman yesterday accused the State Government of backing out of the TLPI at the last minute.

Cr Newman claims to have received support for the proposed change from Local Government Minister Desley Boyle at the Local Government Conference in Mackay last Wednesday.

"At the end of the day the State Government needs to support the council with this or it won't get up," he said. "I would not have gone ahead with this in its current form if Desley Boyle had not supported it.

"Desley Boyle said she supported what I was doing when I spoke to her in Mackay last Wednesday and now they have changed their minds. That's a backflip by the State Government."

However a spokeswoman for Ms Boyle denied Cr Newman's assertion.

"Yes, she met with the Lord Mayor, yes, she discussed the TLPI and yes, she indicated her strong support for the direction he was heading," the spokeswoman said.

"There's clearly a gap in the Brisbane planning scheme and Mr Newman needs to plug it. But Desley has not seen the TLPI and it's a bit cheeky to expect her to sign off on a document she hasn't seen."

Research by The Courier-Mail has found that Brisbane's most prolific developer, Kevin Seymour, has at least two sites potentially affected by the TLPI – his newly acquired Red Cross headquarters, which was only purchased last week, and IAG House at 545 Queen St.

One of the biggest potential losers under the TLPI would be Stockland Corporation, which owns the prime Brisbane riverfront Eagle Street Pier site.

One of the key principles of the TLPI is that "new developments should not impact on the recreational and environmental value of the Brisbane River". This could see any multi-level proposal by Stockland for the site having to run the gauntlet of objectors and lengthy appeals processes.

PRDnationwide researcher Paul Barratt said there were 11 current or near-future site opportunities in the CBD that could be hit by the TLPI.

Mr Barratt said these 11 sites were, for all practical purposes, available for development now or in the near future.

A deputation of angry developers met Cr Newman last night and are scheduled to meet Deputy Mayor David Hinchliffe this morning.

Evironmental issue could only be overshadowing.... of what? skyscraper canyons?

and this will add to recreation immensly with their 'new pedestrian shopping precinct' and the observation deck.

Plus newman hasnt even got this agreed on yet.

The render of Vision is just a blob. Doesn't tell us anything. No set back from office component to the more slender apartment upper-floors. No spire. It's non-descript. 2 pages of excitment later. :|

Just looks like the envelope (or a raspberry ice-block); nothing more, nothing less!

^^ The render is small, but I think it looks great.

From the Courier Mail

http://www.couriermail.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,10708297%255E3102,00.html


Cr Newman said he had seen the drafts of the proposal by private developer Austcorp to build Brisbane's tallest building, which he said would be dealt with under current rules.

"I'm looking forward to seeing the formal application – it's an appropriate height for its location and size of the block," he said. "I don't want to get in the way of anybody proposing things that are going to take the city forward. But what I am concerned is there are bad concepts that are going to be lodged before this is put in place."

With respect to Newman and his comments, everyone should just take a chill pill.

My take on newman's comments is that he is being cautious about the devlopment. There are many positive aspects to this devlopment and some possible impacts.

Good planning requires a process of assessment and analysis to consider these before a decision is made.

I dearly hope this Vision tower does go ahead but like any proposal, it must go through due process. We all like tall buildings but there are many things to consider and there may be some issues we are not yet aware of.

My impression is that Mr Newman seems positive about Austcorp and if everything is in order it should go ahead with no hitches. It seems the new development regulations are to stop things like Emerald going ahead on blocks of land that are too small. So I guess the possibility of Emerald being constructed is unlikely without a court battle. Its a pitty.
Anyway i thought Austcorp was going to have a spire? From that render i can't see any spire, it looks as though it takes up the full height of about 245-250 metres.
Can't wait to see a larger render.

Now we just need to find some new renders.
If it is being lodged today, how long until the details of the lodgement can be seen.

Today's Courier Mail today says the development application is being lodged today but I got the impression from that article posted yesterday that Austcorp would be issuing a media release & everything to really get the details out there what with all the anticipation about it.

www.afr.com.au/property story blocked

Story now UNBLOCKED!

Brisbane rule change chafes



On the eve of Sydney's Austcorp lodging its development application for a $650 million tower that will be Brisbane's tallest building, a monumental planning dispute has erupted.

About 70 developers and members of the property industry met at City Hall for three hours yesterday to vent their opposition to the temporary local planning instrument proposed by Lord Mayor Campbell Newman.

The instrument, which will make all city applications impact-assessable rather than code-assessable, will dramatically slow development and have serious repercussions on site values, the Urban Development Institute of Australia warned yesterday.

The stoush is reaching a climax just as Austcorp is making its application for a mixed-used 80-level tower on a site fronting Mary and Margaret Streets, bought last year for $24 million.

Queensland's chief executive of the UDIA, Brian Stewart, said while the industry supported the creation of a new master plan for the CBD, the planning instrument was too ambiguous and broad.



advertisement

advertisement

"Our view is that it should be as narrow as possible to fix the problems that are identified and those problems, we are told, relate primarily to large buildings on small sites," Mr Stewart said yesterday.

Problems under the existing town plan came to the fore with the application for the 77-level Emerald Towers, which was "called in" by the Queensland government for assessment after intervention was requested by Cr Newman.

Cr Newman said the Emerald Towers application highlighted that development applications under consideration could detract from the "planning vision" for the CBD.

However, Mr Stewart said the proposed planning instrument would brake activity in the already tapering CBD market: "Some of my members have said it would slow development in the inner city for two to three years."

Another concern held by MrStewart is that the process of impact assessment leaves the door open to allegations of favouritism or corrupt practices, because there is not the level of objectivity provided by codes.

Mr Stewart is hopeful that consultation with a working party today and another public meeting tomorrow will result in amendments.

"We really want to understand what they [the council] mean by 'bad development' and solve that problem without having really
drastic, unintended consequences."
While Cr Newman is keen to push the planning legislation through council on Tuesday, it ultimately requires the approval of the state planning minister, Desley Boyle.

A spokeswoman for the minister said yesterday that Ms Boyle supported the push for a master planning exercise for the CBD but that she hadn't seen the legislation's documentation yet.

The managing director of Devine, David Devine, said the proposed instrument would deter investment because of the uncertainty in the market.

He said the planning legislation was clearly a reaction to the Emerald Towers proposal but it was too heavy-handed.

The proposed legislation was only announced by Cr Newman on Friday.

The deputy mayor and chairman of the urban planning and economic development committee, David Hinchliffe, said it was important to change the plan to reflect what was "reasonable" and to ensure that investors were not deterred

Article in the Courier Mail today, about pretty much the same thing as Fin Review.

http://www.couriermail.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,10708297%255E3102,00.html (http://)

snip
TWO new major development applications have been rushed into Brisbane City Council in the past few days in a bid by developers to beat new planning restrictions in the city centre.

Plans for Brisbane's tallest building will also be lodged with council today, ahead of new rules proposed by Lord Mayor Campbell Newman to assess future inner-city towers on the basis of impact.
snip

I wonder what the other application being rushed in is?

newmans new plan looks like its gonna have trouble going through?

70 developers etc... and he annoyed the woman from thoe govt by pre-emptivly saying that she was for it when she hadnt even read it.

There are 2 applications in Brisbane city council at the moment that are huge - so to speak -
1) 323 - 409 Adelaide St - Seymour Land Corp (no plans yet)
2)450 Adelaide St - K & K Retail Investments (no plans yet)

Walked past the mary street side of the site (where the budget rental used to be) and there is a render of it!! All i can say it looks HUGE!! and spectacular.... it looked like it was all glass. Dwarfs over Waterfront Place... probably about 240m?? They've also launched a website www.visionbrisbane.com.au but aren't giving away too much info there. Maybe somebody could get there digicam and take a photo of the poster?? Otherwise i could use the camera on my phone and take a crappy photo of it.

nice work kent! ill have to get down there for that pic. its most likely 256/246m btw

took these from the flash on www.visionbrisbane.com.au. Great looking tower!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/Blend/visren1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/Blend/visren2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/Blend/visren3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/Blend/visren4.jpg


I think theres some kind of beakon on the top. In the first render and this one there has been bright light and i dont think its co-incidence.

mm pretty

Walked past the mary street side of the site (where the budget rental used to be) and there is a render of it!! All i can say it looks HUGE!! and spectacular.... it looked like it was all glass. Dwarfs over Waterfront Place... probably about 240m?? They've also launched a website www.visionbrisbane.com.au but aren't giving away too much info there. Maybe somebody could get there digicam and take a photo of the poster?? Otherwise i could use the camera on my phone and take a crappy photo of it.

LOL I just walked past - saw the bilboards of the tower (very nice) and practically ran all the way to uni to get on the internet.

jt

So hopefully someone can take a photo of the billboard today?? hint hint nudge nudge

saw it on the news tonight and looks fantastic. its gunna be very upmarket and classy so a good change from the boxy cheap stuff we're experiencing at the moment. what a cracker :)

saw it on the news tonight and looks fantastic. its gunna be very upmarket and classy so a good change from the boxy cheap stuff we're experiencing at the moment. what a cracker :)

Yeah, I saw it on Channel 7. Very nice. It reminds me of a cross between Q1 and Circle on Cavill. But, nicer than both. There is a small spire, but it is no higher than the top of the roof / fin. It comes out of the building probably 30m from the top and then rices to the top. The glass seems very reflective. Maybe too reflective. Artistic license. I didn't really like the bit down the bottom (12 stories I assume) that sticks out from the rest of it. Also, it seems to be orientated in a weird direction. Looks good though!!

heheh that's the one guys!!! Austcorp have taken all the posters and pictures down from in their board room.

may the approval process be smooth and the sales be many. :cheers:

Yeah, it's orientated so that the front of it will face in the direction of the Story Bridge and Gateway Bridge (in the distance). The first thing that came to mind when i first saw it was Q1 as well.

i would really like a resturant up there :D that would be too good.

I caught Channel 10's coverage this afternoon. The report was very positive overall, with only a brief mention of shadows over the park. The tower looks amazing -- I can't wait for this one.

Screenshots from TV tuner card:

http://server4.vnpages.net/~one/bne/vis004.jpg

http://server4.vnpages.net/~one/bne/vis005.jpg

http://server4.vnpages.net/~one/bne/vis006.jpg

http://server4.vnpages.net/~one/bne/vis007.jpg

http://server4.vnpages.net/~one/bne/vis008.jpg

http://server4.vnpages.net/~one/bne/vis009.jpg

http://server4.vnpages.net/~one/bne/vis001.jpg

http://server4.vnpages.net/~one/bne/vis002.jpg

http://server4.vnpages.net/~one/bne/vis003.jpg

great work Defec8R! looks awesome in those shots

The glass looks a kind of metallic mid-blue colour, although being reflective I guess it will change depending on the sky. Also the roof is a bit below spire height, so about 240m?

Wow thanks defec8R - I knew someone would do it!!!

It is a mixed use tower with a significant amount of office space so it should be in Prime Site tomorrow in the Courier mail.

jt

i guess we wont know till they announce it.

How similar is it to CoC and Q1 though?

i suppose the curved shape is similar, but this one has a more cityish feel than those ones which seem beachy.

Maybe its just the context they were put in the renders.

Awesome, thanks Defec8r

wow, looks like i was right, 250mRl or 246m above grd. but is 246m to spire or roof?? i have a feeling its 246m to roof and 250m to spire. it looks like its only 4m higher. So RL254m to spire?
very similar shape to Q1, but tiny spire.
great design!! huge!!

i finally chatted to architects today for a while and they will send me plans soon.
they also couldnt remember hieghts (no plans in front) maybe 2 weeks. i said id love to make a scale model for the council display and they seemed interested. Brisbanes highest points in 2007.
in 2007, Bisbane will have 11 structures over 150m/500ft above brisbane river!
atm there is just 4.

HEIGHTS ABOVE SEA LEVEL
VISION TOWER spire?-254M -roof-246m PROPOSED
RIPARIAN SPIRE- 253M (UC) roof-204m
EMERALD?-248M PROPOSED
AURORA-217M (UC)
CP1-180M
BRISBANE SQUARE-168M (UC)
WATERFRONT PL-166M
SKYLINE TOWER -165M (UC)
111 GEORGE ST SPIRE-160M
PANORAMA SKY-159M (UC)
HITACHI SPIRE-155M