The SOUTHAMPTON (and area) thread.

Hammerson Reboot Southamptons WestQuay:
http://www.skyscrapernews.com/news.php?ref=1712

AND Woolston Riverside!:
http://www.woolstonriverside.co.uk/

Wet quay looks alright actually,suprising since its terry farrel :)
But woolston Riverside looks like any other development in the country.
It could be anywhere.Southampton needs something unique and iconic.
Like the Elbphilharmonie in Hamburg. :D

BOOOOOOOOOO!
Stand up if you hate the scum!
:ohno:

Woolston riverside looks like a really great development its a shame that Richard Rogers is no longer involved i think the eventual finnish may be lesser because of this. West Quay shopping centre was always awful. This new extension looks a bit better but still not great.

Inside the new Ikea

9:00am Sunday 21st September 2008

By Kate Thompson

IT’S taken nearly ten years to become a reality but within just a few short months IKEA will finally open its doors in Southampton. It will be one of the largest stores in the UK, with 32,000 square metres of retail space (roughly half the size of WestQuay).And as the credit crunch takes hold, the Southampton store will be the last to be built in this country for some time (only the Dublin store will open after Southampton.) With up to 20,000 customers a day expected at weekends, the store – selling affordable furniture and the covetable cushions, curtains and accessories necessary for a trendy lifestyle – is set to be a mecca for cost-conscious consumers.

When the Swedish company first confirmed they were coming to Southampton back in 2000, they were ready to make their home on the former Calor Gas site in Millbrook.

But after years of planning wrangles, agreement was reached over the West Quay location that will finally be home.

For years, fans of the store were forced to wait patiently for news of when work would begin. At times it seemed the city might lose out to neighbouring Portsmouth, when IKEA announced they had bought land there in readiness. Even when we were certain it was coming to Southampton there were setbacks (the store was due to open in April this year).

The shell of the iconic blue building is now taking shape – and overseeing the project is Jo Rymill, IKEA's UK project leader.

It’s the first major project for the diminuitive blond with a disarming smile, who is equally at home in the office surrounded by swatches and paint colours or ankle deep in mud down on the West Quay building site.

Striding around the concrete shell of the enormous store Jo, 40, is fizzing with excitement over the development – like all good designers, she has the foresight to see how it will look when the builders move out in December and the painstaking work of shopfitting begins.

She embodies the IKEA brand with her effervescent enthusiasm and captivating sense of humour – and she is clearly loving the challenge of bringing the project in on time and within budget.

“Southampton is my baby – and it's brilliant to be involved in such a major project.

“It's not been without its challenges – at our store in Coventry which has just opened they needed 400 piles in the ground to support the store, here we've got 2,500 because it's built on reclaimed land.

“We've also had to watch out for bombs left over from the Second World War but touch wood we haven't come across any,” she said.

Jo was brought up on work-sites – her father is a builder and he started work on the family home when Jo was six-years-old. There were no soppy toys for her. The space where her dolls should have nestled in a pram was taken up by breeze blocks and pavers as Jo helped to move 5,000 of the building blocks of their home.

“My whole life has been spent on a building site. My father started work on the house when I was six and it went on untili was 21.

“I've now got a house in Ramsgate with my partner and that's a building site too – my living room has got two roll top cast iron baths in the middle of it that are waiting to be plumbed in – we are living in one room,” she said.

Jo has worked for IKEA for 12 years. Her background is in textiles and she started out as an interior designer with the company. She has been responsible for creating the inspirational room sets – especially the children's rooms and loved the chance to let her imagination run wild.

But when she had the opportunity to move into management and take on responsibility for the Southampton development, she jumped at the chance.

Undaunted by splitting her time between the retail offices that have a temporary home in Southampton Docks and the building site, where hundreds of men are working on the construction, Jo explained she felt really comfortable in this macho world.

“I love working with blokes – I'm not a particularly girly-girl.I find men's humour and language easier and if I had to dress up to go to work it would be a nightmare,” she said.

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/3690326.Inside_the_new_Ikea/

A few other proposals/buildings under construction;

East Terrace Park;
http://www.skyscrapernews.com/news.php?ref=755
http://www.invest-in-southampton.com/developments/DevelopmentsDetails.asp?ID=57

Meridian TV Site;
http://www.thisishampshire.net/mostpopular.var.2433837.mostviewed.citys_tallest_building_to_be_built_on_former_tv_studios.php

Millenium Hotel;
http://www.invest-in-southampton.com/news/millenium-hotel.asp#0

City Gateway;
http://archive.thisishampshire.net/2008/1/9/124684.html
http://www.skyscrapernews.com/news.php?ref=1745

Mayflower Plaza;
http://www.invest-in-southampton.com/developments/DevelopmentsDetails.asp?ID=8

Carnival HQ;
http://www.invest-in-southampton.com/developments/DevelopmentsDetails.asp?ID=2

Guildhall Square - Business Centre;
http://www.invest-in-southampton.com/developments/DevelopmentsDetails.asp?ID=3

Spitfire Memorial;
http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/3710371.How_city_s_Spitfire_memorial_will_look/

Ocean Village - Maritime Walk;
http://www.invest-in-southampton.com/developments/DevelopmentsDetails.asp?ID=22

Rose Bowl Redevelopment;
http://www.invest-in-southampton.com/news/rose_bowl-planning_approval.asp#0

Ocean Terminal;
http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/business/businessnews/3705510.Fourth_cruise_terminal_named/

New Police HQ;
http://www.invest-in-southampton.com/developments/DevelopmentsDetails.asp?ID=10

Gantry Site;
http://www.invest-in-southampton.com/news/Gantry-planning_app.asp#0

New Ordnance Survey HQ;
http://www.invest-in-southampton.com/news/Adanac-park_planning.asp#0

Cumberland Place;
http://www.invest-in-southampton.com/news/Plans_for_City_Centre_Office_Developments.asp#0

Centenary Quay (Woolston Riverside);
http://www.centenaryquay.com/

Watermark West Quay (Phase III);
http://www.west-quay.co.uk/website/images/RetrieveAsset.aspx?AssetDocumentID=1851

IKEA;
http://www.ikeasouthamptonstore.co.uk/

:)

Watermark Quay:

http://i34.************/20uzm9g.jpg

Looks good so where abouts is this in Southhampton?

Its just round the corner from the bargate and just outside the entrance to West quay. With this cinema de lux and the harbour lights Southampton will have a good selection of cinemas. While Portsmouth has a vue at Gunwharf and the Odeon at Port solent. :(

Work is starting at Southamptons Ocean Village

http://*************************/england/ocean_village_southampton.htm


building is started in Ocean Village in Southampton, new buildings including the tallest is supposed to be 11 stories high.



This project is being developed by Linden Homes whose proposals will be largely residential and accommodate of 130 new apartments consisting of one to three bedroom units and a small number of live/work properties.

With such facilities as rain water harvesting which will keep the communal gardens green even if there is a hose-pipe ban the design could be classed as "typically Southampton" with a post modern look employing large amounts of white and external balconies to help add detail to the buildings.

Also included in the scheme is the new Innovation Centre which will contain 3,500 square metres of office accommodation aimed at cashing in on the National Oceanography Centre which is close-by which the council hope will help create a viable knowledge cluster of firms related to the research centre.



On the site of what was formerly a boatyard – Maritime Walk, Princess Alexandra Dock – the proposed landmark development will have a prominent waterside frontage with stunning panoramic views across the marina. The design of the building is conceived as a series of interlocking blocks – on the base, an elongated glass block along the length of the promontory accommodating the public areas along with a more solid metal-clad block for the ballroom, which opens out for expansion into the piazza. The principal 10-storey guestroom block ‘floats’ over a plane of glass above the podium base.

As night falls the hotel becomes even more dramatic, with the triple storey reception space lighting up and transforming into theatre with strong visibility from the landscaped public piazza. Guest accommodation will be a mixture of luxury suites, family guestrooms and club guestrooms. Facilities at the hotel will include: banqueting and conferencing for up to 800; 139 car-parking spaces; destination restaurant and café bar – both with external terraces – together with a dedicated spa floor, as well as an executive and marina berth holders club lounge.

Bernard Lee, director at the London office of HKR Architects – whose previous notable projects include the 5* star Conrad Hotel in Abu Dhabi, Capital Towers, SZR in Dubai and the Westin Golf Resort in Alicante, Spain – commented: “The final design is an elegant and successful resolution to a challenging brief for this exciting urban waterfront quarter. Our approach ensured that we addressed existing uses as well as the integration of the site within its wider context. This dramatic and high quality scheme will further complement the cohesive development of Ocean Village and will help position the marina as the premier world class yachting destination on the south coast.”

Marina Developments Limited finance director, Alan Chater, added: “We are committed to building a high quality hotel on this site and the HKR design certainly meets our expectations.”

Historically, the area now known as Ocean Village, is situated on what was originally known as Outer Dock, Southampton’s first dock which opened in 1843. It expanded in 1851 with the construction of the Inner Dock and after almost a century of handling freight and passenger ferries, was renamed Princess Alexandra Dock after she reopened it in 1967. Parts of the dock wall are listed and two historic buildings exist – one of which was the former headquarters to the famous White Star Line.

In recent years the Ocean Village Estate has benefited from significant regeneration and development investment resulting in the delivery of residential apartments and town houses, office developments as well as extensive leisure facilities including two cinemas, marina, restaurants and bars, strengthening Southampton’s identity and reinforcing its leisure and marine events capability.

Gavin Hall of Savills’ planning team, who prepared the planning application stated: “We have worked closely with HKR Architects to ensure that the scheme optimises the solution for residents, local businesses and councillors, berth holders and the yachting fraternity, as well as the hotel operator – Millennium & Copthorne –
and last but not least, events organisers, in order to bring the heart back to Ocean Village.”

David Curtis-Brignell of Millennium & Copthorne Hotels commented: “This proposal will really help to enliven Ocean Village Marina and Millennium & Copthorne is pleased to be part of these exciting plans. The site will become a key business and leisure destination and the link from the ballroom to the events area will assist to attract major events into Southampton.”
http://*************************/england/jpgs/ocean_village_southampton_hkr270508.jpg

Waterfront hotel is victim of crunch
8:58am Tuesday 21st October 2008
http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/business/businessnews/3777031.Waterfront_hotel_is_victim_of_crunch/

Comments (15) Have your say »

By Gareth Lewis »

DREAMS of a newlook waterside heart for Southampton again lie in tatters after it emerged the credit crunch has put paid to work on a massive new hotel in Ocean Village.

The decision means two of the biggest projects on the city’s waterfront have fallen victim to the slump in the economy and may now never be built. It is a body blow to hopes the site might rival Portsmouth’s successful Gunwharf Quays.

Ocean Village Resorts (OVR) had intended its 224-bed, glass-sided hotel, complete with a waterfront “events piazza”, to be the catalyst to lure back prestigious sailing races and events to the city. The 13-storey hotel would also have had space for conferences of up to 800 people.

Bosses of the £50m scheme have followed the lead of fellow Ocean Village developer Wilson Bowden and put the brakes on development until “some point” in the future.

As previously reported in the Daily Echo, opposite the entrance to Ocean Village a third development, Crescent Apartments, also stands half finished and abandoned due to financial difficulties.

OVR had already run into financing trouble and gone back to the drawing board with a simplified scheme after a more ambitious plan was scuppered by spiralling construction costs.

Yesterday, the new scheme also hit the buffers.

OVR chief executive Tony Keeler said: “This decision to defer has come about as a consequence of the current deteriorating economic conditions in these uncertain times. We will continue to monitor and review this decision and it is anticipated that at some point in the future we will be in a position to recommence works on the project.

Ocean Village remains a priority for the company’s development plans and work behind the scenes will still continue.

The planning and design phases of the Hotel development have been successfully completed.”

Wilson Bowden called off work at its Admirals Quay development earlier this year with just three of the planned five blocks built and only two of the ten shops and bars completed. The site has been up for sale for around five months with no buyers.

Developers Inner Circle Homes, who were behind Crescent Apartments – a six-storey block of 88 flats, told workers to down tools, board up the windows and walk off the site after they hit financial difficulties. They were unable to give a day when work would start again.

Ocean Village’s woes follow a pattern of development disasters across the rest of Southampton and elsewhere in the country.

Already this year Southampton has seen plans for an art centre housed in two landmark glass towers collapse after developer City Lofts ran out of funding. The site, the former, Tyrrell and Green store, is to be demolished while the council attempts to find another developer to take it on.

This video (http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/video/video/48113/)covers some of the new developments going up in Southampton, together with a funky Central Station design that I've never seen before (probably a vision).

The Daily Mail have also produced this update on current construction projects in the city;

Southampton's vision of the future is put on hold
7:10am Sunday 26th October 2008
http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/3791479.Has_the_Wow_Factor_become_the_Woe_Factor_/

COLLECTING dust under the stairs of the City Art Gallery is a virtual model of Southampton. Costing £120,000 of taxpayers’ money, it was proclaimed as a symbol of pride at its grand opening in May.

The 3D model was created to show residents, visitors and developers what Southampton would look like in the near future as the city undertook its biggest post-Second World War redevelopment.

We were told it would offer a “living, breathing, changing” representation of Southampton and new projects would be added as and when they were revealed.

How times have changed. The “wow factor” has become more like a “woe factor” and the so-called City Vision Centre is now in danger of becoming a symbol of embarrassment.

In less than six months, five highprofile city centre developments have fallen victim to the economic downturn sweeping the globe.

In among the grey Monopoly-style houses that dominate the model are tiny versions of some of the city’s flagship building projects.

These include a 13-storey hotel that was to jut out into the Ocean Village marina and the city’s premier office development, Mayflower Point, opposite the Civic Centre.

The Daily Echo this week revealed both projects – worth a combined £130m – had stalled and there were doubts over when either would ever get off the ground.

Of course, Southampton is not suffering alone and some argue the city is better placed to survive the credit crunch.

Councillor Royston Smith, the man charged with overseeing Southampton’s mega-build, yesterday insisted his £1.5 billion vision was not in tatters.

“My concern is that the more we talk up how bad it is the more people will believe it,”

the Cabinet member for economic development said. “It is pretty bad, but it is not all doom and gloom.”

Cllr Smith last year said Southampton was entering a “golden age”, with 14 major developments – including 5,000 new residential units – that would change the city “beyond recognition”.

Thirteen months on, does he believe the golden age is gone?

“I don’t think it is gone, Southampton’s golden age is just going to have to be put back a couple of years because the developments are not all going to happen at the same time as they were going to,” Cllr Smith said. “The next two to three years are not going to be transformational for Southampton, instead it is going to be 2012/13 or 2014 – but all of those projects are still going to happen.”

He added: “Southampton is actually doing well in comparison to lots of other places.

The demand for housing is still strong and is still there, but it’s just that nobody can get any money.”

His optimism received a boost today, with firms behind three of the city’s most important projects declaring they were not going to turn their backs on Southampton.

Of most importance, regional development agency SEEDA last night said Centenary Quay Woolston – the city’s biggest development – was on track.

A meeting of Southampton’s council, health, police, business and volunteer bosses earlier this month heard that some major developments were not proceeding or had been “mothballed” until the market picks up.

The Southampton Partnership was warned there might be more mothballing in the future and that land values were down about 20 per cent for brownfield sites and 25 per cent for greenfield sites. Private sector housing schemes had effectively stopped, while affordable housing schemes were still progressing.

With regard to office developments, banks are not funding the schemes unless they are pre-let, which is having an impact on some of the office developments in the pipeline.

The building of new hotels, however, is proceeding and has not been affected yet by the downturn. Developments such as IKEA, Carnival Headquarters’ fourth cruise terminal and Palmer Johnson were going ahead.

While these are beacons of hope, the Southampton Partnership, who commissioned the City Vision Centre, must be wishing they had stuck with their original wow factor idea of firing laser beams out of the clock tower.

What's happening with key developments

1: WOOLSTON - CENTENARY QUAY

Clean-up of the former Vosper Thornycroft site is under way and developer Crest Nicholson said it is on track and work is under way.

However, two months after planning was approved, they have yet to agree infrastructure funding with the council. The £500m development will feature 1,600 new homes and an industrial site that will create at least 1,000 new jobs.

2. OCEAN VILLAGE - BOATYARD SITE

Construction begun this month on a 128-fl at development and a Marine Innovation Centre that will surround a plaza next to Harbour Lights cinema. The project is being developed by Linden Homes and Marine Developments Limited, who hope to have it completed in 2010.

3: OCEAN VILLAGE - HOTEL

Work on the 13-storey, £50m hotel was this week put on hold due to the global fi nancial crisis.

Developers Ocean Village Resorts Ltd said it remained committed to the hotel and work would continue some time in the future.

4: CANUTES ROAD - CRESCENT APARTMENTS

Construction of the six-storey apartment block was left half finished and abandoned last month due to financial difficulties.

Developer Inner Circle Homes said they hoped workers would return to the site by the end of the year.

5: OCEAN VILLAGE - ADMIRALS QUAY

Developer Wilson Bowden earlier this year called off work with just three of the planned five towers built and only two of the ten shops completed. The site has been up for sale for almost five months with no buyers.

6: ROYAL PIER - MAYFLOWER PARK

The council has given Scottish developer Kilmartin until December 2009 to draw up dramatic plans for the prime waterfront site. Although no details are available yet proposals for the site are likely to include around 1,000 flats.

7: ABOVE BAR - ARTS QUARTER

Plans for an art centre housed in two glass towers collapsed in the summer after developer City Lofts ran out of funding. The site, the former Tyrrell and Green store, is to be demolished next month at a cost of £1.5m while the council attempts to fi nd another developer.

8: ABOVE BAR - REGIONAL BUSINESS CENTRE

Planning consent was granted to the six-storey office block in May, which will now rise up on the former C&A building on Northern Above Bar. Part of the Arts Quarter, it will feature shops, restaurants and cafe.

9: COMMERCIAL ROAD - MAYFLOWER POINT

Work on the £80m project, which will feature an eight-storey offi ce block, 150-bed hotel and a 14-storey apartment tower, was supposed to begin in July. It has since stalled as developers Terrace Hill continue to negotiate infrastructure funding with the city council.

10: GANTRY

A planning application was submitted last month to build a ten-storey tower containing 115 flats. The application also includes a four-storey office block and an extension to The Mayflower theatre.

11: WATERMARK WEST QUAY

Developer Hammersons are due to submit a planning application next month for the third phase of building at WestQuay. The latest development will feature a hotel, flats, cinema and a new city plaza.

12: EAST PARK TERRACE

The £110m development will feature the city’s tallest tower - a 4 star Radisson hotel.

Developers Imperial said revised plans had been submitted to change the hotels’ footprint, but there were no anticipated problems and work would begin once permission was granted.

http://i39.************/33vkchf.jpg
http://i39.************/vomw4z.jpg

SOARING higher than the London Eye, this dramatic £400m plan for Southampton’s waterfront is the vision of one of Britain’s leading architects to regenerate Southampton. Called the Spitfire Wing, the 142-metre high attraction and museum is no flight of fancy, being intended to celebrate the city’s proud history while enriching its future.

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/3992813.Towering_ambition_for_dramatic_waterfront_redevelopment/

Not so good.
In that video of the 3D model,whats the central station development.
Looks amazing :)

At least somethings being built in Southampton:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/8041620.stm

Anyone got any info on the old art deco Ocean Terminal it looks really interesting on the video.

Cool, didnt really see much art deco styling though?

No i can't see it either. Its just a big shed.

new 25 storey tower for ocean village:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/8070922.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/hampshire/8143965.stm

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/8685107.__30m_Itchen_Bridge_tower/

PLANNERS have cleared the way for a landmark tower to be built next to Southampton’s Itchen Bridge and become the city’s tallest building.

The £30m hotel and apartment tower will rise 25 storeys high as a “gateway” to the centre of Southampton.

Councillors backed the plans despite objections from conservation body English Heritage which complained that the designs looked too bulky and the building needed a more “graceful profile”.

Developer Orchard Homes plans to build the 253ft (77m) high tower on the Cedar Press site between Royal Crescent Road and Saltmarsh Road after the printing firm moved to Romsey.

It will house a mix of 122 one, two and three-bedroom apartments giving residents stunning views across south Hampshire, the waterfront, Isle of Wight and the New Forest.

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/resources/images/1497421/?type=display

Do you actually see them building this? With Barratt/David Wilson with 2 more tower blocks to build over the water front, I'm struggling to see a market with so many flats to sell. Maybe they'll flip the land now that they have achieved planning.

However it's wonderful to finally see "Height Inflation" finally reach Southampton.

:eat: Various projects in Southampton:

Hampshire Police HQ; http://www.invest-in-southampton.co.uk/news/PoliceHQ_opens.asp#0

Central Station; http://www.invest-in-southampton.co.uk/news/CentralStation_refurb.asp#0

Ocean Village Innovation Centre; http://www.invest-in-southampton.co.uk/news/OV-InnovationCentre_launch.asp#0

New Cruise Terminal; http://www.invest-in-southampton.co.uk/news/5thCruiseTerminal.asp#0

any chance you could get some images of the projects:-)

Great to see Southampton boooming! I think it is the right move to position it as the cruise ship of the UK. Southampton should open the city centre up more to the water front too... I know this is supposed to be the plan but it is taking time.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-14140363

http://assets5.gcstatic.com/u/apps/asset_manager/uploaded/2011/28/southampton-arts-complex-at-night-1310631646-article-0.jpg

Southampton city arts scheme plans submitted

he creation of a new £21m arts complex in Southampton has moved ahead with the submission of a planning application.

Developer Grosvenor has been working with Southampton City Council to design a 100,000sq ft arts complex and restaurant space in the city centre.

Jimmy Chestnutt, chief executive of Hampshire Chamber of Commerce, called the application a "significant step".

Work is due to begin on the site in the early part of 2012, with the main structure completed by 2013.

Source: BBC News

It's curious how Southampton appears to have been pretty stagnant as a town, whilst Portsmouth has been fairly effective at renewing itself as an engaging 21st century port city.

Portsmouth feels like a significant place in ways that Southampton simply does not. In terms of the latter, it could almost be Northampton on sea.

i wonder why Southampton are worried..
http://www.vanilladays.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/jul.jpg

sorry, but looks good like.

You wont take the industry out of Soton, it is unfair what Liverpool is doing anyway. If Liverpool wants to do it out of PRIVATE INVESTMENT, then all is good. Get Peel to do something, Southampton grew it's industry organicly.

Needless to say, regardless of my Pompodian nature, I am supporting Saints on this one.

You wont take the industry out of Soton, it is unfair what Liverpool is doing anyway. If Liverpool wants to do it out of PRIVATE INVESTMENT, then all is good. Get Peel to do something, Southampton grew it's industry organicly.

Needless to say, regardless of my Pompodian nature, I am supporting Saints on this one.

unfair ha ha

that firm from southampton doing all the moaning was a nationalised company until thatcher privatised it, the infastructure was paid for by the british taxpayer, then they shifted their offices to the channel islands so they dont pay tax to the u.k treasury and now they are moaning about liverpool getting a grant.
on top of that they`ve had over £100m to improve the local rail and road links to the port.
they are having a laugh arent they, it`s like something of yes minister, Jesus get a grip

And it's the City Council who run our facility not Peel,It's amazing how many times I see this point corrected and yet it still gets used.

You wont take the industry out of Soton, it is unfair what Liverpool is doing anyway. If Liverpool wants to do it out of PRIVATE INVESTMENT, then all is good. Get Peel to do something, Southampton grew it's industry organicly.

Needless to say, regardless of my Pompodian nature, I am supporting Saints on this one.

Southampton's industry was built with huge, overwhelming public subsidies, over many, many years.

But putting all of that aside...

Why is it unfair for a UK city to use public money to help build its economy?

I simply don't understand the principle, regardless of the obvious hypocrisy inherent in the current anti-Liverpool campaign in Southampton and the Channel Islands.

I think it is the role of government to help fund infrastructure, to step in and assist, to invest in the economic future of the whole country.

I can't abide this nasty little Thatcherite ideology that places the means (free market, private capital) above the end, the means themselves becoming the goal.

Growing the economy, providing better prospects for citizens across the country as a whole, providing more well being..... surely that is the goal?

Not some pissy little obsession with private v public investment, as if one is inherently good and one inherently bad.

Because it is putting one city at a disadvantage when that city grew its industry organically. If Liverpool wants to do it, grow it organically like Southampton did.

Edit: Scum forumers, where are you?

It didn't simply grow it's industry organically though, did it? Over the years it has had plenty of state investment, public subsidy and the lot. And... that's fine. Southampton is a UK city. Why shouldn't it benefit from being part of the UK? Otherwise, what is national government for? Are you suggesting government, the state, can't invest in the future of its cities, of its own people?

Honestly though, this whole private investment/subsidy issue is a ridiculous, convenient red herring. The objective is to try and prevent a non-competitor northern city from becoming a very minor competitor - at worst. It has nothing to do with principles.

Like a number of our major cities, Liverpool needs to regrow its economy. It has areas of high unemployment. It needs investment, both private and public.

And, it should damn well get it. It's entitled. It's a major UK city.

And we're not the United States. We don't leave cities to die, we re-purpose them, and we invest in them, with public funds if required to get things moving... because believe it or not.... private capital is not a panacea, solving all problems. The market alone is not always that smart. It doesn't always do what needs to be done. We're too established a country, with too much heritage, to let the market alone dictate what happens and where. Sometimes, it needs a bit of encouragement.




http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e2/Spinnaker_Tower_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1255913.jpg/250px-Spinnaker_Tower_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1255913.jpg
Spinnaker Tower is a 170-metre (560 ft)–high landmark tower in Portsmouth, England. It is the centrepiece of the redevelopment of Portsmouth Harbour, which was supported by a National Lottery grant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinnaker_Tower
...hurrah for public investment.

Southampton Sea City Museum – confirmed grant of £4.6million (Heritage Lottery Fund)
Southampton City Council can now move forward with its plans to convert the Grade II listed Magistrates’ Court into a modern museum which will showcase the city’s archaeological and maritime collections and put heritage back on Southampton's map.
http://www.hlf.org.uk/news/Pages/SouthamptonSeaCityMuseum.aspx

...thereby competing with other cities that appeal to visitors based on heritage.

Here's the rub of it....

"Allowing public funds to be used by Liverpool to compete with private investment elsewhere in the country could have a significant impact on jobs in the city, and Southampton City Council is calling for fairness and supporting the petition".
http://www.southampton.gov.uk/news-events/latest-news/cruisepetition.aspx

That's not actually true, is it? Allowing ANY funds, public OR private, to be used in supporting Liverpool's fledgling return to the liner business would have the very same impact on Southampton.... either none, a little, or a significant amount. That's the real fact of the matter.

Underneath the hypocritical, simplisitc public/private red herring argument, the self evident REAL objection is based on a concern about protecting Southampton jobs at the expense of creating jobs in another city.

Look at this objectively, and it is crystal clear that Southampton's instincts here are protectionist. "Fairness" has got nothing to with it, aside from being a convenient cloak. ABP opportunism, taken up by overly credulous locals on the South coast.

They don't want the competition.

"“I am encouraging everyone to stand up for UK ports to be able to compete on a level playing field, and protect vital jobs in Southampton.
“Southampton City Council has led the protests from the start and we are working closely with Associated British Ports (ABP) and The UK Cruise Port Alliance. I’ve met several ministers about this issue and am keen our voice is heard as part of the consultation.
“But I need your help, so we can protect the local economy and vital jobs in the region which will be put at risk if Liverpool is granted permission to operate as a turnaround port."

...so transparent!

Let me clear some things up, Lottery Funding is NOT Central Government funding. And Liverpool has sure as hell got a lot of that lately, Pier Head and it's Canal Link anyone? Have you looked up how much money Liverpool gets compared to Portsmouth and Southampton combined!? It's shocking and unfair to the Solent as our economy is paying for things that don't benefit us.

Also, the Spinnaker Tower was overwhelmingly - and controversially - paid for my the City.

Lottery funding is a form of public funding. Stop splitting hairs, because there really is no grand principle involved in what you are saying.

And of course I know Liverpool benefits from public funding, in various forms. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make though, as I've made it abundantly clear I'm in favour of public investment. I believe in it.

You talk as if there is no nation, only cities. It's rather like Thatcher's infamous "there is no society, only individuals" line, writ large. The sentiment expressed by those who object to contributing to public healthcare through taxation.

Let me clear some things up, Lottery Funding is NOT Central Government funding. And Liverpool has sure as hell got a lot of that lately, Pier Head and it's Canal Link anyone? Have you looked up how much money Liverpool gets compared to Portsmouth and Southampton combined!? It's shocking and unfair to the Solent as our economy is paying for things that don't benefit us.

Also, the Spinnaker Tower was overwhelmingly - and controversially - paid for my the City.

liverpool is bigger then Portsmouth and Southampton combined! so whats your point.

The metropolitan areas of the two cities exceen 1 million. Also I mean per capita, where Liverpool gets something like twice as much investment.

It still needs it as the moment. You may not have noticed, but the city as a whole had a really hard time over the last 2-3 decades of the 20th century.

Anyway - you should start citing some figures and references. Throwing numbers around is far too easy, especially when you don't even say what they actually are.

So have all of the cities, it isn't just Liverpool. Look at Pompey 15 years back it was a no go area.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-15133098

Southampton's tallest building plans unveiled

A planning application for what would be Southampton's tallest building has been submitted.

Allied Developments wants to build the residential 28-storey tower, with 299 homes, at the city's Ocean Village Admiral's Quay site.

The £74m scheme marks the final element of the area's regeneration and also includes two other smaller blocks.

The developer said it has already consulted with residents and expected a planning decision by early 2012.

It is thought the project could bring up to 200 jobs to the city.

Leader of the Conservative-led council Royston Smith said:
"This is a great boost for Southampton's waterfront and will bring further life to Ocean Village and valuable jobs to the city.

"I am confident this will have a positive impact on the area, becoming a catalyst for further investment in the future."

Peter Morton, from Allied Developments, said:
"The tallest residential tower will act as a landmark and will be the beginning of a new skyline for the city of Southampton."

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/55758000/jpg/_55758201_admirals_quay_-_by_hgp_architects.jpg
The 28-storey building will house 299 homes

i wonder why Southampton are worried..
sorry, but looks good like.

I think Southampton can compete with Liverpool in the cruise market no worries.

http://www.cruiseeurope.com/sites/default/files/images/soton-aerial-cruise-aug-09.jpg

The quality of the crusie ships calling here on a weekly basis are of stuff that Liverpool can only dream of.

Here's the major calls for October alone:

04/10/2011 SAGA RUBY
04/10/2011 GRAND PRINCESS
06/10/2011 QUEEN ELIZABETH
06/10/2011 BALMORAL
09/10/2011 INDEPENDENCE OF THE SEAS
09/10/2011 VENTURA
10/10/2011 ARCADIA
12/10/2011 ADONIA
12/10/2011 SAGA PEARL II
12/10/2011 AURORA
14/10/2011 CELEBRITY ECLIPSE
14/10/2011 QUEEN MARY 2
14/10/2011 AZURA
15/10/2011 OCEANA
15/10/2011 AURORA
16/10/2011 QUEEN MARY 2
17/10/2011 OCEANA
20/10/2011 INDEPENDENCE OF THE SEAS
21/10/2011 VENTURA
21/10/2011 GRAND PRINCESS
23/10/2011 QUEEN ELIZABETH
26/10/2011 OCEANA
28/10/2011 AZURA
28/10/2011 BALMORAL
28/10/2011 QUEEN ELIZABETH
29/10/2011 ARCADIA
29/10/2011 ADONIA
30/10/2011 CELEBRITY ECLIPSE
30/10/2011 QUEEN MARY 2
31/10/2011 INDEPENDENCE OF THE SEAS
31/10/2011 ORIANA

Geography is the advantage for Southampton as it's well positioned for cruise ships that are calling other European ports. The four cruise terminals are an advantage too, as is Carnivals new UK HQ. ;)

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/01/05/article-1344361-0CA7F7C6000005DC-709_964x441.jpg

Is Carnivals new HQ that big new build by the IKEA?

Is Carnivals new HQ that big new build by the IKEA?
Yep, just here (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=carnival+uk+hq&hl=en&ll=50.90086,-1.409559&spn=0.000001,0.000868&t=h&z=21&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=50.90086,-1.409559&panoid=Vu8EWnMJXaEGVx5t-r54Jw&cbp=12,9.16,,0,-10.36)

Yes, that's the one. I have to admit, from a Pompodians point of view, Southampton did well with that. A very high quality build.

I think Southampton can compete with Liverpool in the cruise market no worries.

It's not about competing,we just want to get on the bottom rung of the ladder,it's your city centre and what you have to offer were you can't compete,visually and physically,you've already got the cruise market cornered.

What exactly is our city centre lacking? For sure it has some criminal architecture thanks to the Germans levelling most of the decent stuff during the war, but it has plenty of hotels, restaurants, bars and shops.

What is key for a turnaround port is infrastructure, services and capacity to get the ships in and out quickly. This area has a massive capacity to cater for any requirements of the cruise industry. Even the double tides this area enjoys helps with this quick turnaround.

Cruise ships need pretty cities as features on their schedules, it's not essential to have a pretty city as a start/finish point. What counts is a practical city, like Southampton. It has good transport links, good location to the market, and fantastic support services. Sailing so far away from mainland Europe to Liverpool will cost cruise companies a fortune. Liverpool is too far North West to be a big player anymore.

Sure Liverpool can lure a few ships to call periodically, maybe even a few smaller lines ships could be based there, but this isn't a threat to Southampton. Southampton's biggest threat is Portsmouth which has similar transport links, infrastructure, geography and support services . Thankfully they are distracted by the Navy still.

Portsmouth is also - not trying to flare up the Solent arguement here by the way - the 'attraction' city of the two. Southampton is better for shopping and is better connected, but for tourists Portsmouth is miles ahead.

I still think Southampton can be better for shopping. West Quay is fine, but it peters out on Above Bar. The whole centre feels stretched out. I think it would be better if Debenhams could move to Above Bar somewhere create a closer circuit. It's a long enough drag from The Marlands to West Quay and then over to Debenhams. With West Quay eventually expanding something will need to be done.

What the city centre needs is more office occupiers and a decent rapid transit system.

Liverpool is too far North West to be a big player anymore.


Well in that case,why don't Southampton stop whinging and let Liverpool build the cruise terminal and give the people up North another option.

No idea, maybe because the local paper needs to boost it's sales?

I'm in agreement that they should be allowed to get on with it, I don't however think tax payers money should be used to subsidise the venture. I have friends who recently were made redundant from their jobs in London as their company was given a tax break to move the jobs to Liverpool. This isn't a good use of tax payers money in my opinion...better to use tax payers money and tax breaks to lure jobs or in this case business from other countries.

It wasn't the local paper taking a petition to Downing Street though was it? It was your city's leaders,so there's a bit more to it.

You may not have noticed, but the city as a whole had a really hard time over the last 2-3 decades of the 20th century.


I guess Liverpool One, The Museum of Liverpool and Mann Island were figments of my imagination were they?

One wonders what Liverpool would need to stop Scousers finding something to whinge and moan about.

For the odd, crazed scouser, nothing short of nuclear annihilation of London, the south of England and of course, Manchester. The uninvention of containerised shipping and the public hanging of Maggie Thatcher would probably be on there list too.

(fortunately most Liverpulians aren't like that, just the odd one you understand ;) )

:) :) :)

Any News on http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-15133098

It wasn't the local paper taking a petition to Downing Street though was it? It was your city's leaders,so there's a bit more to it.

They are shiting themselves i would be.

29961951/SOUTHAMPTON was today accused of “hypocrisy”, in standing in the way of Liverpool’s cruise terminal ambitions – after £50m of taxpayers’ money was used to upgrade road access to their port.

The two cities have clashed over Liverpool’s bid to use its Pier Head cruise terminal for “turnarounds” where ships can start and finish their journeys.

Southampton believes it would amount to unfair state aid – because Liverpool received grants to help build it.

Yet a Freedom of Information request by the Daily Post reveals the Department for Transport (DfT) has spent £49m improving the M27 to speed up access for lorries to the Port of Southampton.

It comes just four months after we revealed a £60m rail freight link into the Port of Southampton was opened – with £54m coming from the taxpayer.

The latest revelation comes at a sensitive time as the Government deliberates over Liverpool’s bid to satisfy State Aid rules by paying back £5.3m of the £17.8m grants used to fund the waterfront facility.

The DfT has committed to delivering a verdict by the end of the year.

Liverpool council leader Joe Anderson last night demanded an urgent meeting with transport minister Mike Penning.

“This shows just how much the taxpayer has paid for infrastructure in Southampton, and once more shows their hypocrisy in opposing Liverpool’s bid.

“I just find the hypocrisy amazing. There is absolutely no difference to the taxpayer paying for infrastructure upgrades because of port-related traffic, to public money having been used for Liverpool’s cruise terminal,” said Cllr Anderson.

The Daily Post is currently running its “Get On Board” campaign to overturn the bar on cruises beginning and ending, calling for a return to the golden days when ocean liners were based in the heart of Liverpool. Southampton is demanding the repayment of all £17.8m of government and European grants used to fund the terminal. The city claims the cash should not be used for private enterprise.

Although Liverpool’s port is owned by Peel Holdings, Liverpool council runs the cruise terminal.

Southampton’s port is run by Associated British Ports, which is registered in Jersey and does not pay corporation tax in this country.

Yet the firm has complained about Liverpool’s ambitions, saying the funding of the cruise terminal amounted to unfair state aid.

The FOI response showed the DfT paid for the M27 to be widened between Junctions Three and Four, and junctions 11 and 12, in 2008, at a cost of £49m.

“The area has seen considerable growth in traffic flows during recent years, resulting in congestion at peak periods,” states the FOI response.

“This was caused by slow moving local traffic between the junctions coupled with the Heavy Goods Vehicle usage, transporting goods to and from the ports.

“The geography of the area, between Junctions 11 and 12, added to the problem, with slow-moving goods vehicles causing tailbacks.

“These factors caused congestion and led to unreliable journey times.”
http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/...2534-[/B]

Well that's bollocks. The M27 was upgraded to relieve traffic between Portsmouth and Southampton. Freight Traffic would go up the M3 out of Southampton, the M27 links it to Pompey.

It's resolved now anyway.:cheers:

Liverpool cruise liner terminal wins turnaround approval after council agrees to pay back grant cash

LIVERPOOL'S cruise liner terminal at the Pier Head will finally be able to cater for turnaround journeys in three months’ time.

The shock announcement broke the stalemate in talks between Liverpool council and the government over the amount of money needed to end the turnaround ban.

The council has agreed to repay whatever grant cash is required to lift the ban on “turnarounds” – voyages starting and ending at Liverpool cruise terminal.

That will be at least the £5m already offered to the government and could be as much as £9m.
Click here to find out more!

The sum is separate from the balance of £8m from EU funds to build the £17m terminal, which the council asked the government not to get involved with.

The money will be paid in annual installments, based on revenue from the number of cruise liner turnarounds.

Council leader Cllr Joe Anderson said: “I am very excited about what will be a new era for us.

Read More http://www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/liverpool-news/regional-news/2012/02/03/liverpool-cruise-liner-terminal-wins-turnaround-approval-after-council-agrees-to-pay-back-grant-cash-99623-30257237/#ixzz1lJi6HATx


Fred Olsen cruise line returns to Liverpool after three years gap

FRED Olsen Cruise Lines has said it will return to Liverpool in summer 2013 with 10 cruise departures from the city’s Pier Head Cruise Terminal.

The line abandoned Liverpool in 2010 after 10 years, due to the difficulties with Bootle’s Langton Dock Cruise Terminal.

It cited operational problems getting the 28,400 gross ton m/v Boudicca in and out of Langton lock.

This was in spite of selling out almost all berths on the 900-passenger liner.

The first cruise departs on April 21, 2013, with a range of destinations.

These include the Norwegian fjords, the Baltic and St Petersburg, the Canaries and the Mediterranean.

John Cooper, sales and marketing manager at Liverpool Cruise Club travel agency, which has lobbied Fred Olsen to return to Liverpool, said it was great news.

“This is absolutely fabulous news for Liverpool as Fred Olsen is so popular with passengers from all over northern UK.

“Resolving the Pier Head Cruise Terminal turnaround issue has clinched it for Olsen’s.

“It will also be a great investment for Liverpool as so many businesses will benefit in the supply chain.

“If we develop the cruise and stay market, it will boost the city’s prosperity with cruise passengers staying and spending.”

Read More http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liverpool-news/local-news//tm_headline=fred-olsen-cruise-line-returns-to-liverpool-after-three-years-gap%26method=full%26objectid=30257077%26siteid=100252-name_page.html#ixzz1lJiaAi62

See, if Liverpool is going to repay the investment then it is fine. It was the money for free people had an issue with. Liverpool wont take too much from Southampton anyway, might be a better destination but Southampton is the established market.

Great news for Liverpool the cruise terminal has been approved cruises to start in May and a 2nd termnal is already planned.:banana:

Liverpool wont take too much from Southampton anyway, might be a better destination but Southampton is the established market.

You don't know that yet lets wait and see Liverpool is already planning a second terminal.

It was nothing to do with paying money back,it was about putting a spanner in the works and hoping to put a stop to our terminal.It backfired on Southampton big time,a huge shit on one might say.:)

It was nothing to do with paying money back,it was about putting a spanner in the works and hoping to put a stop to our terminal.It backfired on Southampton big time,a huge shit on one might say.:)

Of course it was i think it just made the city more determined to win.

No it was due to unfair competition. If you are paying it yourselves or paying back then go right ahead. Southampton was in the right.

No it was due to unfair competition. If you are paying it yourselves or paying back then go right ahead. Southampton was in the right.

What about this? "Liverpool wont take too much from Southampton anyway, might be a better destination but Southampton is the established market."

If you are paying it yourselves or paying back then go right ahead.

We are and now we're going to build an industry around it.

What about this? "Liverpool wont take too much from Southampton anyway, might be a better destination but Southampton is the established market."

Whats that got to do anything? That is still fair competition. Southampton never stopped doing cruises and managed to further establish itself. Liverpool should never have stopped.

No it was due to unfair competition. If you are paying it yourselves or paying back then go right ahead. Southampton was in the right.

Do we have your permission.:lol:

God the Liverpool forumers are impossible to have a discussion with.

Whats that got to do anything? That is still fair competition. Southampton never stopped doing cruises and managed to further establish itself. Liverpool should never have stopped.

Don't worry Liverpool is back now you have awoken a sleeping giant.

To be fair, the opening of Liverpool is more a demonstration of growth in the market than damage to Southampton. Southamptons biggest threat is Portsmouth.

Though, you can understand where I am coming from when you consider Portsmouth City Council had to stump up the cash for our new Terminal.

Tonks, Liverpool's 'cruise liner terminal' consists of just a landing stage, a very basic bit of infrastructure, the terminal facilities have yet to be constructed. Liverpool has had landing stages at the Pier Head for hundreds of years.

Here is a picture of the old landing stage, with the terminal facilities provided in the Cunard Building, which still exist.

http://www.greatships.net/scans/PC-LS01.jpg


The actual terminal buildings have yet to be constructed, and will be paid for separately by the council and Peel. ABP were moaning about the landing stage solely to stop Peel Ports from gegging in on the Cruise Liner market on the cheap.

Hasn't Liverpool already got a turnaround facility but it is next to a pile of scrap?

To be fair, the opening of Liverpool is more a demonstration of growth in the market than damage to Southampton. Southamptons biggest threat is Portsmouth.

Though, you can understand where I am coming from when you consider Portsmouth City Council had to stump up the cash for our new Terminal.

Indeed Liverpool is in the wrong place to threaten Southampton. You need to be based in the English Channel area to offer good access for the cruise ships.

We are and now we're going to build an industry around it.

That'll make a change from making an industry out of bitching, moaning and being the victim of England that keep Merseysiders going for so long.... :ohno:

That'll make a change from making an industry out of bitching, moaning and being the victim of England that keep Merseysiders going for so long.... :ohno:

Oh the irony,it's you lot bitching,moaning and being the victim and your one trick pony of a town,it would be nice to have a comback for you but the area where you're from is bland and off the radar and doesn't even conjure up an image of anything in particular and that's why you're all so desperate to hang on to the one thing that you are of use for.

Oh the irony,it's you lot bitching,moaning and being the victim and your one trick pony of a town,it would be nice to have a comback for you but the area where you're from is bland and off the radar and doesn't even conjure up an image of anything in particular and that's why you're all so desperate to hang on to the one thing that you are of use for.

Sorry? I don't like in Southampton, never have. Just making a point about Scousers.

(And I have lived 15 years in the North West and made a number of visits to the Benefits Capital)

Wow you're so original,did you think of that all on your own?:lol:

And I have lived 15 years in the North West


You left Preston which had a 100% employment rate and so many job opportunities,or in reality,a city that's virtually been cancelled with the Tithebarn fiasco and thinks an ageing bus station is quality architecture worth saving,no wonder you're bitter.:wink2:

u/c residential lowrise building near oxford street

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5312/6910975822_be06b4555b_b.jpg