Sorry guys I'm just going picture posting crazy.


http://www.imagehost.biz/ims/pic.php?u=4267KkmBH&i=96425&c=.gif

THe quality on this photos is really good, but you can see the skyline in the distance. Not sure where this was taken from but it looks a good 20-30 miles away.

http://www.imagehost.biz/ims/pic.php?u=4267KkmBH&i=96426&c=.gif

http://www.imagehost.biz/ims/pic.php?u=4267KkmBH&i=96427&c=.gif

This is a beautiful shot. I love how the BoA tower glows

http://www.imagehost.biz/ims/pic.php?u=4267KkmBH&i=96445&c=.gif

Don't be sorry. :) The Pix are cool! :D

Baltimore's hotel occupancy rate rises


About 5,000 more hotel rooms were filled in summer 2004 than were filled during the same quarter last year, according to a report released Wednesday by Baltimore City tourism officials.


Visitors to Baltimore during the three-month summer period also paid about $6 more per room per night, helping the city generate sales tax revenue from tourism-related industries of more than $17 million, up about 4 percent from the same period (June-August) of 2003.

The findings are part of a summer tourism report issued by the Baltimore Area Convention and Visitors Association, which also released statistics about the city's tourism business during the first and second quarters of fiscal 2005, which began July 1. The report -- tabbed the Baltimore tourism barometer by BACVA officials -- is the first of its kind for the city.

Among the survey's other findings:

During first quarter 2005 (July-September), more than 64,700 hotel rooms were rented in the city, which is about 12,960 more rooms rented during the same quarter last year. The occupancy rate during that period was 78.6 percent, about 11 percent above the national average;
Nearly 111,800 people attended a meeting or convention during the first quarter, generating about $110.1 million in direct spending for the region;
Between October and December, more than 70,200 people are expected to attend a meeting or convention in Baltimore, likely spending more than $69 million and renting over 83,800 rooms;
More than 292,000 people visited the new Baltimore Visitor Center between May 7 and Nov. 7, the first six months the center was open to the public. About 475,000 people are expected to visit the center during its first full year of operation;
BACVA has booked more than 45,600 room nights during the first quarter, more than half of which will be used by the end of 2005;
Baltimore lost more than 44,000 room nights to such cities as Boston, Orlando, Philadelphia and Washington, D.C., during first quarter 2005.

The big question of the day - The death of a thousand cuts is over at the GM plant and they really are going to close it after years of threats, denials, shift cuts, temporary closures and damning the place by only building one unsafe gruesomely outdated van. So soon there will be a big stretch of land (about 125 acres) available for some other use.

It would be nice to think that somehow eventually whatever goes there will replace those jobs. What does the group think would be the best use of that land? What sort of industry or buisness? Should those buildings be recycled or should the land be cleared for another use? Sold as a parcel or broken up into smaller pieces? Is there a way to pressure GM into doing something for the workers that they will cast aside? Is this going to help my attitude toward GM (which is not good)?

I was listening to WBAL tonite and they played a snippet where Ed Hale was saying that he thought that it would be a great site for a new arena for the city.

Who knows.

Try to lure another vehicle company. Perhaps a Japanese or German car company. I mean, the space and setup is already in place. Why trash the place? Try finding another big company to fill the building. If that does not work, then, tear it down and build some other type of industrial type place. :D
That's my take. :)

I was listening to WBAL tonite and they played a snippet where Ed Hale was saying that he thought that it would be a great site for a new arena for the city.

Who knows.

I think that site is too far from the downtown area to be a good location for an arena development. Having said that, industry is not coming back and anyone who thinks we can retain manufacturing jobs in America (and Baltimore) is crazy. This site will probably be a vacant site while the city leadership tries to gain political points saying they are preserving industrial land, but it will never happen.

Having said that, industry is not coming back and anyone who thinks we can retain manufacturing jobs in America (and Baltimore) is crazy.

Sad but true.

There is really nothing to preserve from the Broening Highway plant. Architecturally the "front offices" building facade is very bland and unappealing. Functionally, not much space. They are only two stories tall, and centered on a very long axis-corridor. Maybe someone might want to preserve the water tower as an industrial symbol, or do what is being done elsewhere...convert the water tower into condos. (Sorry, bad joke.)

While I agree heavy manufacturing is unlikely, there are a lot of possibilities for the site. In some ways, it helps cushion the hurt:

As noted, this is the largest tract of industrial zoned land in Baltimore City with excellent location and incredible access to port, highway and rail. With discussion in the port for need of additional space, maybe this could serve as expansion space for Seagirt?

While I agree heavy manufacturing is a thing of the past, don't forget two things: Allison Transmission in White Marsh, and that Baltimore is asking GM to donate the land. While retooling the plant was unlikely, maybe the parcels could be presented in a land-swap type of deal where Baltimore acquires the land -- be it for a price, or for free -- the City goes ahead and demolishes the structures and preps the site, and GM comes back with the option (exclusive right) to build not necessarily an assembly plant, but another Allison-type facility? While manufacturing is a shrinking base, the White Marsh facility has recently proved it isn't totally dead...yet.

Warehouse space is least desirable. Better off building in Harford or Cecil County along I-95. Same thing for any type of housing.

One thing is for sure: a significant portion of the western GM property is below the waterline. When I was in college, I used to work at the Broening Highway facility as a test-driver. When it rained outside, the water table would rise on the inside. Sewer covers would fly into the air with water gushing into the plant. The train-well for trains that came into the plant between "Trim" and "Body Shop" would flood all the time. It was gross. You could actually see rats scurrying around as the space would flood. The robotics in "Body Shop" would often go down due to electrical shorts caused by flooding...

All simply a cache of incredible memories! With the loss of the Broening Highway facility, Baltimore will never be the same. For me, an all too big chunk of my Baltimore life...

Here's an eye opener.

Two doors down from my house, developers took an older, small industrial/office building and renovated it into a large (>5000 sq ft) house. The developers had an open house last evening so I took a look around. Very impressive. It has four huge full bathrooms, a huge kitchen, a massive two-sided stone fireplace, oversized two car garage, all sorts of custom features, and a small, grassy interior courtyard. But what is incredible, at least to me, is the asking price:

$1,950,000! :eek2:

Maybe I'm a little behind the times, but I just can't imagine how a house on my block, no matter how fancy, can possibly command that price. That sounds to me like San Francisco pricing. Are there really people who want to spend that kind of money on a house in that part of Baltimore (Federal Hill/Otterbein)? Anyone know what kind of effect such a one-of-a-kind house would have on the value of more typical houses in the neighborhood?

Good Lord

Man thats steep. :eek2:

Whatever happens to the site, I hope every person gets a new job in the city. 1,100 jobs lost is just plain bad. Trying to find another industry to fill the plant site me be a longshot, but, it's worth a try, to me.
If nothing can come to use of the site, industrially speaking, then erect the worlds largest mall there! ;) :D Let's hear it for the service industry! :D

I GOT IT! How about a theme park? :D ;)

Rumer has it that Ed Hale owns some extra property in canton closer to 95 . He was on 98 rock morning show a couple of months ago and kinda blurped out that the new arena might be located there. the land is already cleared and waiting for ground breaking. Not shore of the size but it looks big enough to build another stadium.

Almost forgot . Here is another interesting site.http://cantoncrossing.com/ i found this on a big banner next to where the new hotel and ship terminal are going up in canton.

I GOT IT! How about a theme park? :D ;)

A variation on New York's Tenement Museum...how about a museum dedicated to extinct industrial facilities. Kids can wear a hard had and tighten bumper bolts...Adults can figure out how to keep the finances rolling when they are on a 3 week layoff.

Here's an eye opener.

Two doors down from my house, developers took an older, small industrial/office building and renovated it into a large (>5000 sq ft) house. The developers had an open house last evening so I took a look around. Very impressive. ... asking price: $1,950,000! :eek2:
... I just can't imagine how a house on my block, no matter how fancy, can possibly command that price. That sounds to me like San Francisco pricing. Are there really people who want to spend that kind of money on a house in that part of Baltimore (Federal Hill/Otterbein)? Anyone know what kind of effect such a one-of-a-kind house would have on the value of more typical houses in the neighborhood?

It does sound high. Within the past year some in laws of mine sold what I thought to be the ultimate Fed Hill house and they got 900K. It is the one that sits on the corner of the park, with lots of side windows overlooking the outer harbor and front windows facing downtown. It's a large 3 story house in great shape and with that view it's hard to imagine another house in the area going for better than twice as much.

Would a theme park, complete with rollercoasters, be a bad idea?

I would love to read more on these two articles in today's Md Daily Record edition:

Baltimore City floats idea of moving Pimlico Race Course

Potentially boosting plans to build a new horse-racing track near Baltimore’s downtown stadiums, the city planning department has floated the idea of relocating Pimlico Race Course and replacing it with housing or a business park.
- Ezra K. Fieser




Rockville redevelopment effort gets big interest — that’s the problem?

The drive to revitalize the heart of downtown Rockville recently got a big boost, as a developer unveiled plans for a high rise with more than 600 apartments and condominiums, as well as restaurant and retail space. But some are worried the boost is a little too big.
- Sofia Kosmetatos

You guys have GOT to click on this link!

http://www.skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=1028113#post1028113

For those interested in what's happening to the Red Line planning, MTA has added a whole bunch of new information on detailed planning options, including BRT and Light Rail. You'll need broadband or a lot of patience. It's at http://www.baltimoreregiontransitplan.com/pages/news2.htm#fall04oh

I would love to read more on these two articles in today's Md Daily Record edition:

Baltimore City floats idea of moving Pimlico Race Course

Potentially boosting plans to build a new horse-racing track near Baltimore’s downtown stadiums, the city planning department has floated the idea of relocating Pimlico Race Course and replacing it with housing or a business park.

Interesting idea. It has been around as an option for a while and seems to have some connection to slots. I would almost be willing to bet (ironic idea) that it is being revived so that OMalley can claim that he rescued Ehrlich's DOA slots proposals just in time for the next election. That being said, a big horse racing/slot machine emporium at the harbor would really add a lot to the entertainment complex. In can't imagine that they would build it without slots since horse racing dates are split up among the MD tracks and they wouldn't be using all the dates at a Pimlico replacement and horse racing by itself isn't that big except for Preakness day. The stadiums and horse racing are part-time but gambling goes on forever and it would help the business of those bars and restaurants around there that are very busy on game days but quiet the rest of the year. I hope they really do something good with the land where Pimlico is now; that area could use the help. IMO, go for it.

ugh.. please don't let them move the Horsetrack down near the other two stadiums.. the original plan for the new horsetrack would destroy half of my neighborhood.

The original plan had the horsetrack going up to Washington Blvd, then they revamped it to be at Ostend Street over to where Montgomery Park is when people complained..

If its too close to downtown and that causes it to destroy some neighborhoods, then I can't see it as a good thing.

I'd love to read the rest of this article..

Positioned for success

November 10, 2004
By EZRA K. FIESER, Daily Record Business Writer

Businesses, investors see strong future in Pigtown

With the city's largest office building to the west, the University of
Maryland, Baltimore life sciences park to the east and new residential
communities north and south, small businesses and neighborhood groups
believe the bookends are in place to return a West Baltimore commercial
strip to prominence. - Ezra K. Fieser

Have you guys checked this out, yet? :D
http://www.skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=1028113#post1028113

those pics are great...

btw, someone emailed me that article on Pigtown.. sorry I keep talking about Pigtown, but I really love where I live here in Baltimore. I think when borderline neighborhoods like this one start turning the corner, thats when Baltimore is really going to take off..

November 10, 2004
Positioned for success

Businesses, investors see strong future in Pigtown

By EZRA K. FIESER
Daily Record Business Writer

With the city’s largest office building to the west, the University of Maryland, Baltimore life sciences park to the east and new residential communities north and south, small businesses and neighborhood groups believe the bookends are in place to return a West Baltimore commercial strip to prominence.

During the next seven months, small business owners and a community organization hope to fill in the commercial gaps in a long-neglected neighborhood that boosters believe is about to turn the corner to stability.

The manager of the Pigtown Main Street Program * an initiative that looks to foster new businesses on Washington Boulevard * counts four new redevelopment projects on the program’s two blocks, a sign that a massive infusion of new residents and investment dollars is garnering attention.

“We’re moving into the next phase in which we try to recruit businesses that are well established,” said Jack Danna, manager of the 4-year-old program. “During the next seven months, things will be much more tangible.”

The 700 and 800 blocks of Washington Boulevard, once a thriving commercial district, have little left to show for their past successes. A few retailers, a bank and dry cleaners were all that remained until a year ago, when a couple opened a café.

The success of that café, along with an influx of new housing, has prompted other entrepreneurs to test the waters.

“I’m very excited about it but I also realize that this is a huge financial risk,” said Bramwell LLC Principal Lindsey Bramwell, who is putting up the equity in her home to buy and renovate 769 Washington Blvd. “It’s something that I believe in.”

Bramwell bought the former variety store at auction for $114,500. She plans to turn the three-story building into the Green Pig, a small café and food market topped by two market-rate apartments. Under her plan, the entire building would run solely on solar power and a small courtyard would be used to capture and recycle rainwater.

“It’s a small building so it would be very efficient,” said Bramwell, who believes this would be the first solar-powered commercial building in the city.

The initial capital costs for the solar panels are about $20,000 per floor, she said. That money is recouped in roughly 15 years under today’s energy prices.

The Green Pig may be the street’s most unusual plan, but it is not alone. Washington Boulevard’s first new mixed-use project, which will combine retail with artist studio space, is expected to commence construction later this month. And two other projects could bring restaurants and more apartments to the blossoming street.

The new businesses will attempt to capture the spending of new residents and office workers that are slowly populating the area.

Hundreds of workers are already employed at Montgomery Park, a 1.3 million-square-foot, former Montgomery Ward distribution center that was converted into office space on the west end of Washington Boulevard at a price of $74 million. Three thousand more jobs are expected just blocks away at the University of Maryland, Baltimore life sciences park, a six-building campus dedicated to research and development of biotechnology-related sciences.

And two housing developments are projected to bring hundreds of new middle-class homeowners to the impoverished area. The first phases of Camden Crossing, a 150-unit townhouse development, are selling for more than $250,000, nearly $100,000 more than the city average.

To the north, the city’s housing department is in the process of acquiring more than 500 homes. It plans to turn the 14 acres over to developers who will build hundreds of market rate and affordable units on large, suburban-like lots.

good article.

good article.


The only way to save Pimlico and keep Preakness in Baltimore is to move the racetrack downtown. Even though it may knock down some homes it will be a good thing for the city overall. No one would go to Park Heights because its no safe. The new racetrack woudl add an element to downtown that is unmatched. There would be more vacant industrial land converted than residential land. I give my vote to the new downtown racetrack!

well thats easy to say as long as your home isn't in any danger..
:bash:

Starbucks negotiating location on west side
Prospects of coffeehouse, new restaurant boost officials' hope for revival

By Scott Calvert
Sun Staff
Originally published November 21, 2004

Downtown's west side could be getting something not even Fells Point, Federal Hill or Canton can claim: a full-fledged Starbucks coffeehouse.
The Seattle-based chain is negotiating to move into space being built at the northeast corner of Baltimore and Eutaw streets in Bank of America's Centerpoint retail and residential complex, city economic official Sharon R. Grinnell confirmed Friday.

Perhaps to provide local balance, the bank's development team is also talking to owners of Kali's Court restaurant in Fells Point about opening a place on Eutaw Street across from the 2,250-seat Hippodrome Theatre.

The two deals, if completed, would begin to fill a gap in the number of west-side cafes and restaurants - one made more evident by the surge of apartments opening as part of an effort to revive a faded part of the city.

Starbucks in particular could deliver a jolt. Despite grousing by some that its cafes are as blandly corporate as they are ubiquitous in many parts of the country, the chain's arrival is often read as a sign of an area's health.

"Great news," said Grinnell, west-side coordinator for Baltimore Development Corp., the city's economic development arm.

"Bringing a Starbucks, bringing a Kali's Court into the west side sends the clear message there is another caliber of retailer that is very much interested in the west side," she said.

"It pulls in that group that has, for a long time, been skittish of being in the west side, both people and retailers."

Maria E. Miller, a senior vice president at Bank of America, declined to comment, as did the broker hired to fill Centerpoint's storefronts on Eutaw, Baltimore and Howard streets.

Phone calls to Starbucks were not returned. A Kali's Court partner said only that the Mediterranean restaurant has expressed interest.

But business groups monitoring the west-side revitalization project were not shy about praising the possible additions, still months away from possible openings, based on Centerpoint's construction timeline.

Some of those groups had expressed concern lately about the pace of progress. Donald C. Fry, president of the Greater Baltimore Committee, recently warned that the city needed to move more aggressively throughout the west side to ensure that Centerpoint and the Hippodrome did not become "an island."

Fry said, for example, that the city must not allow the privately owned Abell Building to remain blighted. It sits across Baltimore Street from the possible Starbucks location.


'Good things' happening

Marshall Snively, a vice president of the Downtown Partnership of Baltimore, offered a more upbeat view Friday. It's not just Starbucks and Kali's Court, he said, pointing also to renovations of several Howard Street shops across from Centerpoint.

"People are starting to take advantage of the fact that good things are happening there," said Snively, whose group has also complained about the Abell Building.

At Centerpoint, a 7-Eleven convenience store is set to open within a month at Howard and Baltimore. A Bank of America branch is open at Howard and Fayette. At Eutaw and Fayette, the only part of the block not owned by Centerpoint, the former Baltimore Equitable Society is to become a 200-seat pub and restaurant called Maggie Moore's. An April opening is planned.

These businesses hope for patronage from many sources: theater patrons, members of the University of Maryland, Baltimore community, and the rising number of people living in hundreds of new apartments.

The newest apartments are in the 392-unit Centerpoint. So far, 285 are done, and 100 of those are occupied or soon will be. "We're actually on target," said general manager Isabell Mattioli.

Rents generally range from $750 for studios to $1,575 for two-bedroom units in the new tower, she said. In the restored 19th-century Strauss building, a one-bedroom loft with 1,050 square feet rents for just over $1,400 a month.

The other day, someone rented a 1,500-square-foot apartment near the top of the tower for $2,375 a month.

Many of these people, BDC's Grinnell said, "have to have their Starbucks coffee" and would treat the coffeehouse as a gathering spot to meet and read the newspaper.

As important, she said, a Starbucks would pull in people from outside the area: "They're going to walk over there, look up and say, 'I'm on Baltimore Street, it's not so bad; I didn't know this was going on.' "


Untapped market

Baltimore, like Detroit and Cleveland, has been a Starbucks laggard. Downtown has three: at Harborplace's Light Street Pavilion, the Gallery at Harborplace's atrium and the Radisson Plaza Lord Baltimore Hotel. There's a branch in Canton's Safeway. But the lone stand-alone store is in Mount Washington, near the Baltimore County line.

By comparison, Minneapolis, a smaller city than Baltimore, has 15 within five miles of downtown. Austin, Texas, has 14. Washington has 44.

Starbucks apparently thinks Baltimore has untapped demand. In June, a spokesman said the company plans to open a new store in the city by January and several more next year. A west-side Starbucks could open next year.

"Anything else we can put in over there is a huge addition and huge boost for the Hippodrome - to make it a full experience for people," said Nan Rohrer, the Downtown Partnership's director of retail development.

West-side advocates are careful to say, however, that they support a broad mix of homegrown and national businesses.

"We view the future of retail as having a great mix of local and national regional retailers," said Ronald M. Kreitner, executive director of WestSide Renaissance Inc. "We're confident that's going to develop in the near future."

Haha...I was just about to post that article. Its great for the Westside neighborhood as the number of Starbucks in a city often serves as an idicator of vitality.

Has anyone ever come up with the idea of a greyhound racetrack? :D The Baltimore area has horseracing, harness and quarter horses. Why not the dogs? In Florida and Chicago, I enjoyed watching the dogs a whole lot better than the horses. :) Plus, a dog track would not take up nearly the amount of land that a big horsetrack would. :D

Whatcha think? :D

Too Many nutcases here to have Dog Track. PETA would be all over it. I wouldn't mind if we got a dog track.

Too Many nutcases here to have Dog Track. PETA would be all over it. I wouldn't mind if we got a dog track.


Dog tracks attract hicks and strange people (some tourists). Horse races bring in more revenue and are much better for the city. The last thing we need is more low revenue industries in Baltimore. The horses can bring something special to Baltimore that few cities have, a world class downtown horse track and slots parlor.

Additionally, the Preakness folks are really putting pressure on the city and the state to improve the Pimlico facility or build a new one. I'd rather build a new horsetrack and keep one leg of the Triple Crown in Baltimore.

I think that starbux article is great.. personally I much prefer the locally owned coffee shop (we've got two of them) but for whatever reason, starbucks really seem to draw people in..
thats a great pickup for that area...

now they just need to do something with the Abell Building.. is there any news on that one?

I think that starbux article is great.. personally I much prefer the locally owned coffee shop (we've got two of them) but for whatever reason, starbucks really seem to draw people in..
thats a great pickup for that area...

now they just need to do something with the Abell Building.. is there any news on that one?

I agree with you that locally owned coffee shops are better. However, Baltimore really has to get with the times and get some national retailers in here. They are what attracts people to come downtown to shop. Even if we lose some local retailers, its a sacrifice we have to make for the good of the city.

ahh NewBaltimore1980... always sacrificing something for the good of the city :jk:

I just read an interesting article in last weeks print version of the Baltimore Business Journal.
It was an article where they were talking about building over top of I-83 in the Penn Station Area. They were saying that there is a high demand for housing in that area and that the city owns aerial rights overtop of the the freeway. They were saying that may be a potential site for future development

I'd like to see some of their ideas. :)

BET chief off hook for hotel
City to finance entire project; Johnson gets fee
Heather Harlan
Staff
Robert L. Johnson, the founder of Black Entertainment Television, may be leading the team that's developing Baltimore's convention hotel. But the billionaire isn't fronting any of the money for the $195 million deal.


In fact, the city plans to pay Johnson's firm, RLJ Development LLC of Bethesda, and Quadrangle Development Corp. a fee for their expertise on the project just north of Camden Yards. The city then hopes to fund 100 percent of the 750-room Hilton hotel using tax-exempt bonds.

While the Baltimore Development Corp. decided more than a year ago to pursue a public financing arrangement for the hotel project, details of the closed-door deal, including the extent of Johnson's role and gain, have not been openly discussed in public.

Inquiries by the Baltimore Business Journal this week revealed new aspects of the bidding process and public financing proposal, which city officials did not outline when Johnson was selected in November 2003, including the following:

The Baltimore Development Corp. changed gears in August 2003 and asked all the development teams -- considered finalists -- to submit a second round of proposals that included a public financing component.
One team, which included Garfield Traub Development LLC of Dallas, Otis Warren, Whiting-Turner Contracting Co. and architect Peter Fillat, all of Baltimore, initially offered a public financing arrangement. That group was willing to give the city a public and private investment offer. "We were never encouraged to do that,'' Ray Garfield, a principal of Garfield Traub, said this week.
Johnson met with Mayor Martin
O'Malley behind closed doors in fall 2003, expressing concerns that he may not have an ownership position in the hotel.

O'Malley blessed Johnson's proposal in November 2003, a year after the city's top elected official announced the businessman's proposal at a press conference. Competitors continue to wonder if Johnson had the inside track.
The Baltimore Development Corp. continues to work with hospitality giant HVS International, first brought on board in February 2003 to discuss the idea of public hotel funding.
The city's leading economic development agency plans to use tax-exempt bonds to cover 100 percent of the hotel costs. City Council approval is still needed to pursue this avenue, which would give a planned municipal hotel corporation full ownership of the complex.

This month, the Baltimore Development Corp. said about 90 percent of the $195 million project will be used for hard construction costs, including furniture, fixtures and equipment for the hotel. The remaining 10 percent -- almost $20 million -- will be used for fees. HVS International and Johnson's team, for starters, will land fees as part of the deal in return for their expertise.
M.J. "Jay'' Brodie, president of the Baltimore Development Corp., said Johnson's fee has not been determined, and negotiations are ongoing. Irene Van Sant, project analyst for the corporation, said a deal will likely be hammered out in early 2005. Thomas J. Baltimore, president of RLJ Development LLC of Bethesda, could not be reached for comment.

The city's top economic development organization will also draw up contracts with other players on the winning team, including RTKL Associates Inc. of Baltimore, Whiting-Turner Contracting and Hilton, she said.

Brodie and Van Sant said this week that the tax-exempt bonding approach is the only way to get the long-awaited convention headquarters hotel developed. "There is no private developer anywhere offering to do this for us,'' Van Sant said.

A recent report on the public financing issue prepared for the city of Raleigh, N.C., shows that outside of Orlando, Fla., and Las Vegas, "there has not been an urban full-service hotel built without public participation since the Chicago Sheraton in 1992.''

Under the tax-exempt bond formula, Baltimore will likely have to set up a reserve fund that could be fueled with a portion of the existing 7.5 percent hotel occupancy tax. Now, about 40 percent of the money collected from that tax goes to the Baltimore Area Convention and Visitors Association, while the remainder is routed to the general fund.

"We are not looking to increase that room tax,'' said Van Sant, adding that the same tax was used to finance the convention center expansion in the mid-90s.

While other cities have used some sort of public financing to construct their convention hotels, some have embraced a blended approach. In Houston, the city used bonds to fund its $280 million convention hotel that was completed in December 2003.


But under that model, Hilton has about a $6 million equity interest in the 1,200-room hotel, said Gerard "Jordy" Tollett, president and CEO of the Greater Houston Convention & Visitors Bureau.


As part of that deal, Texas developer Hines received a base fee of $5 million -- with a $1 million bonus offered for "on time and under budget,'' while Gilbane Building Co. secured a $4.5 million fee to serve as an asset manager, he said.

Thomas Hazinski, managing director of HVS International's convention, sports and entertainment division in Chicago, confirmed there are cases where cities mix private and public investment to develop hotels.

But if a city chooses to use tax-exempt bonds, which are below 5 percent now, a public entity must take a 100 percent ownership interest -- unless the land in question is located in an empowerment zone. Private ownership is not permitted under law using this model, he said.

In some cases, though, cities circumvent that restriction, by asking the developers and hotel operators on the project to purchase tax-exempt bonds -- in fixed-rate, subordinating debt.

Garfield said his company did this in Overland Park, Kan., and was willing to do it Baltimore. "We were prepared to come with money,'' he said.

Both Hazinski and Van Sant said this approach is not always helpful to a city -- since the rate would be higher. "It's not that beneficial of a thing to do for a project -- because the money is more expensive,'' Hazinski said.

Van Sant said the Baltimore Development Corp. is not only negotiating with different players on the development team, but also is gearing up to "inform'' City Council members about its approach.

If everything goes smoothly, the bonds could be issued as early as summer 2005, with construction beginning shortly afterward. Building would take at least 27 months -- with an opening scheduled for early 2008.

"The hotel is moving along -- bit by bit,'' Brodie said.

The only way to save Pimlico and keep Preakness in Baltimore is to move the racetrack downtown. Even though it may knock down some homes it will be a good thing for the city overall. No one would go to Park Heights because its no safe. The new racetrack woudl add an element to downtown that is unmatched. There would be more vacant industrial land converted than residential land. I give my vote to the new downtown racetrack!


Unfortunately it would do a lot more than knock down a few homes. It would also displaces a lot (a couple thousand) of healthy industrial and manufacturing jobs. Our state senator George Della is actively fighting this plan, and rightfully so. The low paying jobs created by a racetrack would never replace the good paying jobs that they would be displacing. It makes no sense at all.

Slots need to be approved and pimlico needs to stay up on old hilltop. People do go to the races anymore and that is the root of the demise of Pimlico. I went there for the first time (non infield preakness) this June and was so disappointed by the facility. It’s old, it’s dark, its dingy. The food vendors are on par with a local county fair food vendors. The place needs to be completely overhauled and slots need to be added. The slots are the magnet; the quality of the facility will keep people coming. It’s really that simple. The people who live in Mt. Washington should realize that if pimlico dies, it will be turned into housing and they will lose their safety buffer between the park heights area that currently is the racetrack. They should be trying so hard to get that racetrack in place their, but they are fighting it and I think they will be sorry.

Double post. sorry.

Did anyone see the game yesterday.

What a game it was! :) :pepper: :banana2: :carrot:

I saw it from section 505. perfect weather for a perfect 2nd half of football.

Yes it was a great game. :)

Jeff, the PowerPoint CD came today. I watched not too long ago. Man! It was great! Thanks for sending it to me. :)
I love what they are doing with Harbor East!! :D What is the tower with the "6" on it? Very interesting building. Is it built or being built now?
Great pics and renderings, too. I loved those overheads, too! :D
Thanks again, Jeff! :D When my wife told me that the CD came, I couldn't wait to get home and see it! :)

City ad titans GKV, Campbell to merge
Julekha Dash
Staff
GKV Communications and the Campbell Group Inc. -- two of Baltimore's largest advertising agencies -- have agreed to merge, effective Jan. 1, 2005.


The combined firm will retain the name GKV Communications and handle more than $150 million in billings. The new GKV will be the second-largest ad firm in Baltimore based on number of local employees.

The new company will employ 100 workers in GKV's Tide Point office, headed by Roger L. Gray, chairman and CEO of the new firm. Gray, who would not reveal financial terms of the deal, anticipates that about 10 workers will be laid off prior to the Campbell Group's move from Pratt Street to their new offices. Brian Hall, a partner at the Campbell Group, will be the president and chief operating officer of the combined firm.

Gray said he began eyeing the merger opportunity when attorney James B. Astrachan, a mutual legal advisor, told them the two companies would be a good fit. After having coffee at Greenspring Station, Hall and Gray decided that "the chemistry was really good."

Both GKV and the Campbell Group have experience serving tourism clients. GKV holds the state tourism account and the Independence Air account, while the Campbell Group's clients include InterContinental Hotels & Resorts and the Baltimore Area Convention and Visitors Bureau. Having a hotel chain would be a big boost to GKV's client roster, said Gray, who has wanted a hotel chain since the company lost the Choice Hotels International Inc. account in 2000.

Gray did not foresee any conflicts of interest between the two agencies' client roster, including the fact that the Campbell Group promotes tourism for the city, headed by a Democratic mayor, while GKV has prominently used Republican Gov. Robert Ehrlich for its tourism advertisements. Gray said he thought the two accounts complement one another. "But I'm not the client," he said.

Merging with another company can allow firms to add new skills to their capabilities and pursue business they would not otherwise have a shot at winning, said John McLaughlin, an independent marketing consultant and former vice president at GKV.

The Campbell Group's considerable experience working for international clients will help GKV in its current bid to secure an airplane manufacturer in Brazil, Gray said.

The announcement follows other recent advertising mergers. Earlier this month, Annapolis firm Crosby Marketing Communications Inc. announced that it had acquired Low and Associates Inc., a 15-year-old agency in Chevy Chase. In October, Noble Steed Associates and Strategix Advertising Inc. merged, forming Strategix/Noble Steed Inc., a 32-person firm in Hunt Valley.



© 2004 American City Business Journals Inc.

What are the plans for Harbor East? I was told 800 Alicienna broke ground last week.

Yes it was a great game. :)

Jeff, the PowerPoint CD came today. I watched not too long ago. Man! It was great! Thanks for sending it to me. :)
I love what they are doing with Harbor East!! :D What is the tower with the "6" on it? Very interesting building. Is it built or being built now?
Great pics and renderings, too. I loved those overheads, too! :D
Thanks again, Jeff! :D When my wife told me that the CD came, I couldn't wait to get home and see it! :)

Unfortunately it would do a lot more than knock down a few homes. It would also displaces a lot (a couple thousand) of healthy industrial and manufacturing jobs. Our state senator George Della is actively fighting this plan, and rightfully so. The low paying jobs created by a racetrack would never replace the good paying jobs that they would be displacing. It makes no sense at all.

Slots need to be approved and pimlico needs to stay up on old hilltop. People do go to the races anymore and that is the root of the demise of Pimlico. I went there for the first time (non infield preakness) this June and was so disappointed by the facility. It’s old, it’s dark, its dingy. The food vendors are on par with a local county fair food vendors. The place needs to be completely overhauled and slots need to be added. The slots are the magnet; the quality of the facility will keep people coming. It’s really that simple. The people who live in Mt. Washington should realize that if pimlico dies, it will be turned into housing and they will lose their safety buffer between the park heights area that currently is the racetrack. They should be trying so hard to get that racetrack in place their, but they are fighting it and I think they will be sorry.

Move the industrial jobs to the former GM facility and use the high valued land downtown for the new horse track with slots. That is what will bring more money into this city and spur development.

Move the industrial jobs to the former GM facility and use the high valued land downtown for the new horse track with slots. That is what will bring more money into this city and spur development.

I would disagree you to the extent that the areas where they want to build the track is already moving with development. We don't necisarily need a racetrack to kickstart things. Development has already been spurred in that area. The proposed racetrack is supposed to emcompass an area larger than Camden Yards and Ravens Stadium put together. Think 20 years down the road what that land could be used for if its not tied up in an enormous horse racing complex.

I honestly think that if they are allowed to put slots in at Pimlico where it is now, people will come. They definately need to do work at Pimlico, but the owners of the track have expressed interest in investing money into that facility. However, why should they with the state threatening to build an all new facilty that would leave them out in the cold. I think if they make improvements to the track, that would help kick-start development in an area that needs it.

To me thats the best solution. Park Heights gets new money, no one needs to lose their jobs because their business was torn down, no ones house needs to be torn down.

Baltimore does not need a smelly racetrack downtown. A more prudent investment would be to construct an arena for NHL hockey and/or NBA basketball. The arena could also be used for concerts, shows, conventions, etc. The track will take up much more space in order to accommodate stables, seating for some tens of thousands of fans plus the huge oval track.

Why displace more businesses and residents for a racetrack that should remain in Pimlico or be moved to a more pastoral setting? I don't know the exact dimensions of a racetrack, but it's certainly immense and an imprudent use of downtown real estate.

Do you really think people want to live or work near a stinky racetrack? With property values increasing in the CBD does this make sense?

Gary

Baltimore does not need a smelly racetrack downtown. A more prudent investment would be to construct an arena for NHL hockey and/or NBA basketball. The arena could also be used for concerts, shows, conventions, etc. The track will take up much more space in order to accommodate stables, seating for some tens of thousands of fans plus the huge oval track.

Why displace more businesses and residents for a racetrack that should remain in Pimlico or be moved to a more pastoral setting? I don't know the exact dimensions of a racetrack, but it's certainly immense and an imprudent use of downtown real estate.

Do you really thinks people want to live or work near a stinky racetrack? With property values increasing in the CBD does this make sense?

Gary

I agree. I think you have to do what works to move the city foward and I don't think a horsetrack is one of the better ideas for forward growth. Residents would seriously question the city's direction if a track were built. Furthermore, I don't think very many locals would be too enthused about another racetrack, when one already exists and holds plenty of sentimental value. I would use the money to renovate Pimlico, not invest in a new dirty horestrack.

Yes it was a great game. :)

Jeff, the PowerPoint CD came today. I watched not too long ago. Man! It was great! Thanks for sending it to me. :)
I love what they are doing with Harbor East!! :D What is the tower with the "6" on it? Very interesting building. Is it built or being built now?
Great pics and renderings, too. I loved those overheads, too! :D
Thanks again, Jeff! :D When my wife told me that the CD came, I couldn't wait to get home and see it! :)

You bet Steve. I knew if anyone would appreciate it, it would be you. I am so glad it made it there, I was nervious that I weighed the package correctly and put enough stamps on it. That was the actualy CD sent to me by struever brothers, so you have an authentic original from one of our most prominent developers!

Man, I can't thank you enough. :D
That is awesome!

Furthermore, I don't think very many locals would be too enthused about another racetrack, when one already exists and holds plenty of sentimental value. I would use the money to renovate Pimlico, not invest in a new dirty horestrack.


Pimlico is a dirty old racetrack and much like Memorial Stadium should be torn down and a better track be built.

I agree. I think you have to do what works to move the city foward and I don't think a horsetrack is one of the better ideas for forward growth. Residents would seriously question the city's direction if a track were built. Furthermore, I don't think very many locals would be too enthused about another racetrack, when one already exists and holds plenty of sentimental value. I would use the money to renovate Pimlico, not invest in a new dirty horestrack.

Horse racing isn't exactly a growth sport, but I would bet that before all the dust and dealing settles, the powers that be decide that the only way to preserve horse racing (which is actually a big industry in MD) is to combine it with slots and entertainment. Sentiment aside, Pimlico and its large stock of undermaintained houses doesn't seem like the place where this would happen. Eveybody knows about the harbor but aside from people who have actually been there, nobody outside Baltimore has any idea where Pimlico is. Think of the driving directions in the tourist brochures and the warnings not to park in the neighborhood.

The media take pains every year during the Preakness to kindly disguise the look and feel of the neighborhood and focus on the horses. I think it will take some dealing between the Gov and the legislature but sooner or later, they will, all of a sudden, have a light bulb go off in their collective heads and find some piece of property near the water where this might work. I'n not even very fond of the entire idea, but the attractions of tax revenue and tourism development will probably make this work once Ehrlich and Busch stop acting like infuriated chimps screaching at each other.

I dont think we've discussed this.

The University of Baltimore is planning to construct a new Student Union complex at the corner of Mt. Royal and Maryland Avenues in Mt. Vernon. Its scheduled to be completed by 1/06. Below are artist renderings.

http://www.ubalt.edu/student_center/images/north_sm.jpg

http://www.ubalt.edu/student_center/images/south_sm.jpg

Sentiment aside, Pimlico and its large stock of undermaintained houses doesn't seem like the place where this would happen. Eveybody knows about the harbor but aside from people who have actually been there, nobody outside Baltimore has any idea where Pimlico is. Think of the driving directions in the tourist brochures and the warnings not to park in the neighborhood.

Still though, this could be a reminder that bad neighborhoods all over the city need to be overhauled, not just those that orbit downtown and have the most abandonment. Many of the city's houses need to catch up with the times anyways, so I would think getting around to fixing even the northernly sections of town is in order. I think we often take the harbor for granted in providing a tourist safe haven. It's probably more convenient to have a horse track in an area that is already strong in entertainment, but it shouldn't be limited to the harbor. Then again, I-83 does slice past Pimlico and takes you right into the heart of downtown, so everything is pretty close together in that sense.

http://www.ubalt.edu/student_center/images/north_sm.jpg

Cool Building. :D
It's like 4 buildings mixed in one. :D

Horse racing isn't exactly a growth sport, but I would bet that before all the dust and dealing settles, the powers that be decide that the only way to preserve horse racing (which is actually a big industry in MD) is to combine it with slots and entertainment. Sentiment aside, Pimlico and its large stock of undermaintained houses doesn't seem like the place where this would happen. Eveybody knows about the harbor but aside from people who have actually been there, nobody outside Baltimore has any idea where Pimlico is. Think of the driving directions in the tourist brochures and the warnings not to park in the neighborhood.

The media take pains every year during the Preakness to kindly disguise the look and feel of the neighborhood and focus on the horses. I think it will take some dealing between the Gov and the legislature but sooner or later, they will, all of a sudden, have a light bulb go off in their collective heads and find some piece of property near the water where this might work. I'n not even very fond of the entire idea, but the attractions of tax revenue and tourism development will probably make this work once Ehrlich and Busch stop acting like infuriated chimps screaching at each other.


Very well stated. People are not going to go spend a lot of money at a slots parlor or racetrack if its in the worst neighborhood in the city.

I wish the city/state would come up with a plan with Univ of Balto. It is a 2 year undergraduate school with some master degree programs. The school is mainly a night school with no dorms or sports programs. Politics seem to always get in the way of a merger.

I was hoping they would merge with Towson University where most of Towson's grad programs would move downtown so U of B would become a large graduate school. The merger was voted down last week.

I also would like to see residence halls built to make that area/school have more of a college town feel.


http://www.ubalt.edu/student_center/images/north_sm.jpg

Cool Building. :D
It's like 4 buildings mixed in one. :D

Still though, this could be a reminder that bad neighborhoods all over the city need to be overhauled, not just those that orbit downtown and have the most abandonment. Many of the city's houses need to catch up with the times anyways, so I would think getting around to fixing even the northernly sections of town is in order. I think we often take the harbor for granted in providing a tourist safe haven. It's probably more convenient to have a horse track in an area that is already strong in entertainment, but it shouldn't be limited to the harbor. Then again, I-83 does slice past Pimlico and takes you right into the heart of downtown, so everything is pretty close together in that sense.

I agree, but we had a meeting with Charlie (cant remember his last name) from midtown development several months ago. He stated very well that Baltimore is in a rennaisance boom. Southeast Baltimore and South Baltimore are now the hot places to be for young professionals and empty nesters. A third of the city is suburbian and will cater to the very well off who want to be near the good schools (i.e. Roland Park, Guilford, etc). Then there is the other third (Park Heights, North Ave, etc.) that there is just nothing to draw people to these neighborhoods. Until we get a SURGE in the number of good paying service sector jobs (banking, engineering, etc) we are not going to see people moving into these neighborhoods. You have to have something to draw people to take a chance in Baltimore. The waterfront is the obvious choice. I can see the BioTech parks being another great initiative. Unfortunately, Baltimore is currently built for a city of 1 million as it was in the 1950's. Now we have under 700,000 and therefore we are going to have bad neighborhoods that cannot be redeveloped at this time.

Pimlico is unfortunately in one of these neighborhoods. I Have been to Pimlico three times and I enjoy it, but I would never go by myself and I am always worried about the neighborhood when I go there. Lets also face it that unless a slots / gamling hall is built correctly, it will not be a draw for people to want to live near it. THat is why downtown is such a great place for it because its in a commercial sector. If Park Heights is bad now, imagine if we don't do any development for the neighborhood and then place slots or an improved Pimlico with a hotel in the neighborhood. Have you ever been to Atlantic City?

What we need is a high class (WORLD class) track that is placed in the commercial sector downtown. This will attract tourists off of 295 and 395 and get people to be downtown. They can stay in our hotels, they can use the harbor, catch a baseball game, eat in our restaurants. This is a win-win for the city. I know there is sacrifice as well, but the overall picture for the city is bright with this new racetrack downtown.

I wish the city/state would come up with a plan with Univ of Balto. It is a 2 year undergraduate school with some master degree programs. The school is mainly a night school with no dorms or sports programs. Politics seem to always get in the way of a merger.

I also would like to see residence halls built to make that area/school have more of a college town feel.


I agree with you.. I think Mount Vernon would become a much more vibrant place if you added a student element to it. I think grad-students would fit the classic mold of the area as well.
It seems a waste to me that its only really used at night. If you have the buildings, why not put them to good use.

I agree, but we had a meeting with Charlie (cant remember his last name) from midtown development several months ago. He stated very well that Baltimore is in a rennaisance boom. Southeast Baltimore and South Baltimore are now the hot places to be for young professionals and empty nesters.

My fear is that in your zeal for pusing this, you're going to stop the Rennaisance of Southwest Baltimore. This is a growing area. A lot of people who are moving into my neighborhood are people in their twenties who can't quite afford Canton or Federal Hill. Home values have almost doubled here on my street in the past two years. They are building Camden Crossing across the street from me with homes in the upper 200Ks. The city of Baltimore has just aquired 15 properties on Washington Boulevard and is turning them over to the BDC for major development.

The location for the track as proposed is a bad deal for us. Imagine what Federal Hill or Canton would be like now if they had put this in there 10 or 20 years ago when they were struggling. Don't ruin my neighborhood just as we're starting to get our chance. :bash:

My fear is that in your zeal for pusing this, you're going to stop the Rennaisance of Southwest Baltimore. This is a growing area. A lot of people who are moving into my neighborhood are people in their twenties who can't quite afford Canton or Federal Hill. Home values have almost doubled here on my street in the past two years. They are building Camden Crossing across the street from me with homes in the upper 200Ks. The city of Baltimore has just aquired 15 properties on Washington Boulevard and is turning them over to the BDC for major development.

The location for the track as proposed is a bad deal for us. Imagine what Federal Hill or Canton would be like now if they had put this in there 10 or 20 years ago when they were struggling. Don't ruin my neighborhood just as we're starting to get our chance. :bash:

The racetrack proposal does not include Camden Crossing, Washington Blvd, or any of the BDC acquired homes. I agree that Southwest Baltimore now has a chance. I do not see this proposal affecting that chance. The number of homes being acquired is a small price for the benefit of the city.

The racetrack proposal does not include Camden Crossing, Washington Blvd, or any of the BDC acquired homes. I agree that Southwest Baltimore now has a chance. I do not see this proposal affecting that chance. The number of homes being acquired is a small price for the benefit of the city.

Here is a pdf file from my community webpage..

http://www.barrecircle.org/racetrack.pdf

The facts on the racetrack: (as proposed)

The total acreage for the proposed track, and the related facilities is 185 to 210 acres, which is more than twice the size of the entire area that comprises Camden Yards and Ravens Stadium.

The proposal makes it clear that additional acreage may be needed for other
buildings. Those other buildings are not clearly defined, and may or may not
include gambling sites. The map does not currently include the land needed for this additional acreage. The original map proposed going East to Scott Street and up Washington Boulevard to Monroe Street.

The proposal calls for 2,000 ground parking spaces and 3,000 structured spaces. That would not be enough parking to accommodate the full capacity of 75,000 people that would attend events like the Preakness.

All houses and businesses within the proposed footprint would need to be
relocated and razed. This includes 176 residential properties, and all of Camden Carroll Industrial Park West of Wicomoco Street. Businesses between Wicomoco and Russell Street could potentially be impacted as well. Relocation would likely mean fair market value for properties, however that is often below the current sales comparables.

How can you say this would have no impact on the good things going on here? This will change the very nature of our neighborhood and it will cause it to smell not so good on some days..
You are correct to say that it will not affect Camden Crossing and some of the businesses on Washington Blvd, however, that is like saying that if I build a sewage treatment facility at the end of your block it doesn't affect you because your house wasn't torn down.. It will affect us in a major way and we're all concerned its not for the best..
Over 70% of the neighborhood is against this and I might add most of this message board is against it. Its a bad proposal all together.

My family was one of the Original Barre Circle Homesteaders. We got two Homes behind each other and connected them and made a main house and a guest home. It is a 2,700 square foot home plus a storage crawl space and a second unfinished basement in the guest house. 4 bedrooms, 3.5 bathrooms, two living rooms two kitchens Hardwood floors, Slate Foyers. We moved in 1979 and owned the House till 1996 when my Parents retired to Florida. It kills them now to see how much homes are going for now in Barre Circle. However they are really kicking them selves for nothing buying a 6 bedroom 5 five bath home in Upper Roland Park on 1/3 acre instead of the Barre Circle Homes. Homes on the same street now are $1,000,000. They could have picked it up for around $95,000 in 1979. It is a 4,500 square foot home.

My family was one of the Original Barre Circle Homesteaders. We got two Homes behind each other and connected them and made a main house and a guest home.

Is that the house on the corner of Scott and McHenry? It seems to fit the description..

[QUOTE=jaysonjaz]Here is a pdf file from my community webpage..



All houses and businesses within the proposed footprint would need to be
relocated and razed. This includes 176 residential properties, and all of Camden Carroll Industrial Park West of Wicomoco Street. Businesses between Wicomoco and Russell Street could potentially be impacted as well. Relocation would likely mean fair market value for properties, however that is often below the current sales comparables.

QUOTE]

And how many of these properties are boarded up, vacant, or underutilitzed. I dont have the facts, I assume its a large number of them. Although there are some bright spots in Washington Village, a lot of the area is not really doing so well. We are moving the people in East Baltimore for the biotech park for a large development. This is the problem with Baltimore, people are too afraid of change and it drives developers right down to DC. If we don't get this track put in downtown, then I guarantee you that we not only have a defunct Pimlico, but we also have the Preakness down in Laurel or at Peter Angelos' track that he just purchased.

Remember people didn't want the inner harbor either.

Barre AND Ramsey. The House is 15X80 full basement in main house and guess house crawl space in between. It had to be made to look like two houses.

I'm all for development, but I'm against a racetrack in downtown Baltimore for two simple reasons:

First, horseracing in downtown cheapens Baltimore as much as any form of legalized gambling. Baltimore IS and DESERVES better. While Baltimore may not be a first-tiered city like New York or Boston, I would however like to think Baltimore is at least a step-up of cities such as Atlantic City, Las Vegas, and Reno.

Second, while Pimlico/Old Hilltop are historically and culturally a part of Baltimore and they do contribute to the local economy, the negatives of placing a horsetrack downtown far outweigh the positives. If Pimlico no longer meets muster, then find another suitable non-downtown location. A facility that large could never generate enough dollars per square foot without major subsidies from the State legislature. Real estate costs are too expensive.

However, point well taken regarding the previous comment about people initially not wanting the Inner Harbor.

And how many of these properties are boarded up, vacant, or underutilitzed. I dont have the facts, I assume its a large number of them. Although there are some bright spots in Washington Village, a lot of the area is not really doing so well.

Facts easily found on BNIA.org.. and you would see that the vacancy rate for the area is about 12%. Hardly an astoundingly high number. I just don't know why youre so desperate to destroy my neighborhood. Its honestly starting to irritate me. :mad:

I'm sure everybody saw the Ritz Carton rendering. I just found a rendering of the PierSide Homes at the HarborView Community.

www.harborviewcommunity.com

Which project is better?

The housing market most be stronger than I thought.

I also notice a tower crane on the south east side of Fells Point next to Canton.

Facts easily found on BNIA.org.. and you would see that the vacancy rate for the area is about 12%. Hardly an astoundingly high number. I just don't know why youre so desperate to destroy my neighborhood. Its honestly starting to irritate me. :mad:


Don't take it personal, I am not out to get your neighborhood. I am just fighting for what I believe is a great opportunity for the city. Most cities would cheer the opportunity for so much investment in their downtown, and Baltimore is saying to leave the old racetrack in the ghetto.

Don't take it personal, I am not out to get your neighborhood. I am just fighting for what I believe is a great opportunity for the city. Most cities would cheer the opportunity for so much investment in their downtown, and Baltimore is saying to leave the old racetrack in the ghetto.

ok i won't take it personal.. i think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.. :hug:

Well guys, here's something new to stew over:

City to seek millions more for hotel plan
$290 million in bonds would finance the project; Planned near Camden Yards; Some worry that the deal is too risky for Baltimore
By Lorraine Mirabella
Sun Staff
Originally published November 25, 2004
Baltimore development officials plan to seek an estimated $290 million in public financing for the proposed convention headquarters hotel, making it one of the costliest projects ever undertaken by the city government.

The amount of the financing substantially exceeds the $200 million cost put on the project just more than a year ago when city officials selected a development team headed by Robert L. Johnson, the founder of Black Entertainment Television.











M.J. "Jay" Brodie, president of the Baltimore Development Corp., said yesterday that the additional $90 million - still an estimate - would cover items such as bond insurance, fees, a reserve fund and interest payments during construction as well as construction costs.

Brodie said the latest financial projections indicate that the hotel's operating income would more than cover the millions of dollars in interest and principal payments that would be due on the bonds each year. But to secure a favorable interest rate, he said the city would likely pledge the hotel's city-owned Pratt Street site, valued at $18 million, as well as the estimated $4.5 million in property and room tax revenue it is expected to generate.

Yesterday, BDC officials revealed new details on how they hope to finance and build the 750-room Hilton, which is designed to boost Baltimore Convention Center's flagging business and allow the city to compete for conventions with Philadelphia, Boston and Washington.

"We are doing this to improve the performance of the convention center," which now has no commitment from any hotel in the city to provide a block of rooms, Brodie said. "It is certainly our intention to make this as close to self-financed as it can be."

Main points in the plan outlined by Brodie include:


The city will issue roughly $290 million in tax-exempt revenue bonds, which require approval of the City Council and Board of Estimates. Officials are working with Wall Street firm Piper Jaffray to complete the underwriting and hope to secure an interest rate under 5 percent.


The city will create a corporation to develop, own and operate the hotel, to be built on an empty parcel just north of Oriole Park at Camden Yards, with a goal of opening in 2008. The corporation will be required to pay property taxes estimated at $2.5 million a year, which in turn will be used to back the bonds.


Johnson's firm, RLJ Development LLC of Bethesda, and partner Quadrangle Development Corp. of Washington will have no equity stake in the project, but will be paid a fee based on services they provide, including advising city officials on negotiating a management contract with Hilton Hotel Corp. The hotel will be built by team member Whiting-Turner Contracting Co., headed by Willard J. Hackerman, with a construction cost of about $195 million. Architecture firm RTKL Associates, which is now being paid by the city for design work, will subsequently be paid by Whiting-Turner. The BDC plans to negotiate and sign separate contracts with each member of the development team.


The city plans to sign a management contract with Hilton that is expected to include an equity investment by the hotel operator as well as a commitment to reserve a block of 600 rooms for conventioneers. Hilton's investment, according to estimates given to City Comptroller Joan M. Pratt, is expected to be about $7.1 million. Brodie would say only that negotiations are not final. Pratt said she was told that Hilton would be paid an estimated 3 percent of gross hotel revenue and 1.5 percent after the debt is paid. She said she was given revenue projections for the hotel of $60 million by 2011.

The unprecedented plan would represent a departure for the city, which relied on the Maryland Stadium Authority to oversee the $151 million Baltimore Convention Center expansion. Brodie said the project would be the largest the city has undertaken.

Brodie and Irene Van Sant, a BDC project analysis director, said the BDC had issued a request for proposals when it decided public financing would be needed and asked the bidders to revise their proposals to include that.

"We had three proposals in front of us," Van Sant said. "We liked RTKL as the architect, we liked Whiting-Turner as the builder, and Hilton as the hotel."

City development and convention officials have said that the city's sagging convention business can be boosted only with the addition of a four-star hotel with a guaranteed block of convention-rate hotel rooms and easy access via a skywalk to the adjacent convention center.

But Heywood Sanders, a professor of public administration at the University of Texas, San Antonio, said that convention hotels built by other cities have failed to meet many rosy projections.

St. Louis' bookings for this year have fallen short of the projected 50 or more major conventions and the 1,000-room Marriott is now dipping into its cash reserves to pay its debt.

A new 500-room Sacramento Grand Sheraton in Sacramento, Calif., built with $92.9 million in bonds backed by operating income from the hotel and an adjacent garage, has boosted convention business by less than a third of the 60,000 hotel nights a consultant initially projected. And a convention center in Overland Park, Kan., developed with a publicly owned 412-room Sheraton hotel, has hosted five conventions rather than the projected 14, receiving only 40 percent of the anticipated room bookings, Sanders said.

As a result, said Sanders, investors have become leery of bond issues that are backed only by hotel revenue and now tend to demand some form of public sector backup, usually a pledge of some larger revenue source, such as citywide hotel occupancy taxes.

"With a number of these hotels opening and performing for a while, it's clear there are some performance problems with these hotels," Sanders said. "In the best of them, the hotel has managed all right, but does not appear to generate substantial continuing new business for the convention center. In the worst of cases, the hotel doesn't operate particularly well."

Yesterday Brodie and Van Sant said none of the hotel proposals submitted to the city offered 100 percent private financing. Two of the proposals asked the city to contribute $50 million to $80 million, money the city simply doesn't have available, Van Sant said.

"We did not believe from the beginning we were going to get a privately financed deal, and we did not," Van Sant said. "The experience across the country in every other city shows that private equity is not available for large, convention-oriented hotels."

But a member of one of the competing development teams disputes that. Robert Hazard, the development adviser for Portman Holdings LP of Atlanta in partnership with Treyball Development Inc., a Beverly Hills, Calif., a real estate company headed by actor Will Smith and his brother, Harry, said the team proposed a deal that required no up-front money from the city and limited the city's exposure at $30 million.

"The proposal we made to the BDC basically said we need some subsidy dollars, like the Marriott [Baltimore Marriott Waterfront hotel in Inner Harbor East], but we're willing to fund this thing privately, and we'll take all the risk. And subsidies we're looking for are not, 'Hey, write us a check,' but take the taxes this facility generates and let us plow them back into the facility, if we need them."

"BDC took our proposal, and to the best of our knowledge, no one in the city ever got a chance to look at it," Hazard said. "BDC said the city would not approve this."

Several elected officials also raised questions about the BDC's plan.

City Council President Sheila Dixon said she is scheduled to be briefed by the BDC on the project next week. But she said she is concerned about the extent of the public financing.

"It wasn't presented before that it'd be 100 percent funded by public funds," Dixon said. "I really would have some concerns with it being fully publicly financed."

Pratt, who also is due for a BDC briefing next week, said she supported a convention hotel but was concerned that the city was shouldering all the risk.

"The liability the city faces is if there is a downturn in tourism and convention industry, and that would mean the city would have to put in more because of a shortfall," she said.

The city hopes to close on the sale of bonds by mid-2005, after which time construction could begin. The city won't know its final costs until it structures and closes on its bond deal, finalizing the interest rate, or yield.

Dick O'Brien, senior vice president and director for the Hunt Valley office of Folger Nolan Fleming Douglas, said insuring the bonds against default, though an added cost, would not only lower the interest rate but also would likely ensure that the bonds would find buyers.

"You might have some investor in San Diego, who when he saw that there was a hotel bond that was uninsured ... wouldn't even bother to read the official statement,'" said O'Brien, who oversees all fixed-income investments for the local office of Folger Nolan. "All they would see is a hotel bond financed out of fees and revenue. But, if you put a layer of insurance on top of that, well, I think he's more likely to buy it."

Sun staff writers Doug Donovan and William Patalon III contributed to this article.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/media/photo/2004-08/13775310.jpg

Or how about this article: ;)


'Superblock' team plan recommended to mayor
Balto. Development Corp. likes four-party proposal
By Scott Calvert
Sun Staff
Originally published November 25, 2004
Baltimore's development agency is urging Mayor Martin O'Malley to select a patchwork of firms to overhaul a key swath of downtown's west side, despite claims by prominent business groups that the city could do better.

All told, four developers propose a $100 million-plus overhaul that would exceed the cost of the $90 million Centerpoint retail and residential complex taking shape nearby.
The plans for the "superblock" are meant to revive a stretch of Lexington and Fayette streets, linking Charles Center to the University of Maryland, Baltimore and recent projects such as the Hippodrome Theatre.

The proposals would add 300 or more apartments and a mall's worth of shops at street level, possibly including an H&M store popular for its trendy, inexpensive clothes, said M.J. "Jay" Brodie, president of quasi-public Baltimore Development Corp. The project could take three years to complete. "We think we have quality proposals in front of us," Brodie said after being asked about last Thursday's private, unannounced vote by the BDC board to send the recommendation to O'Malley, who hasn't made a decision.

But there is hardly unanimous support outside BDC. A lawyer for several merchants said his clients are angry at the prospect of being uprooted. And the Maryland Historical Trust has expressed concern about the number of older buildings that could be razed.

Some business groups, meanwhile, say the city should re-bid the project in hope of getting more ambitious plans. WestSide Renaissance Inc. labeled the four proposals "limited," and half of the board at the Downtown Partnership is dissatisfied, acknowledged the group's president, Kirby Fowler.

Brodie is unwavering. He said the same people who want the city to restart the selection process -- potentially causing delays of a year or more -- have complained of a sluggish pace of progress on the west side.

"It's my strategy," he said, "and if it fails, you can blame it on me."

The superblock is more like five blocks. It encompasses 51 properties on 3.6 acres and is bounded by Clay, Lexington, Howard, Fayette and Liberty streets and Park Avenue. Though the city does not own every property, it has City Council-granted power to acquire most by condemnation.

Once the heart of the city's bustling retail sector, the area has suffered hard times for decades. There is still bustle, though, and remaining shops do a brisk business, mostly from a lower-income clientele -- a group Brodie pledged would be served by a new retail mix.

Of the four developers eager to shake things up, one is from Baltimore. The others are from New York, Philadelphia and Washington.

225 apartments

The largest piece of the superblock would go to the Chera, Feil and Goldman families of New York. They would buy from the city, likely at a discount, two blocks on Lexington's south side and slices of other blocks. Plans call for 225 apartments.

The families turned around a failed Manhattan mall called Herald Center, Brodie said. They also reportedly tried to buy the Sears Tower in Chicago for $811 million. Both of those efforts differ markedly from breathing new life into a worn part of Baltimore.

But Brodie said his "homework" gives him confidence they would succeed here. He has heard testimonials from Atwood "Woody" Collins, a BDC board member from M&T Bank, and Larry Silverstein, who is redeveloping the World Trade Center complex in New York and has partnered with the Cheras.

"I've not heard a single negative," Brodie said. "Unless you consider their being from New York a negative, which I don't."

Isaac Chera, the city's principal contact, could not be reached for comment yesterday. But Brodie said Chera made clear the families would seek no public subsidies such as tax breaks. While local business groups say they lack residential expertise, Brodie said they have "deep experience."

The families also have connections to retailers such as H&M, and Brodie said the Cheras "were optimistic when I chatted with them in New York they could bring" H&M to Baltimore. Arundel Mills Mall has one, but Brodie said a west side store would be a regional draw.

A member of the Chera family owns the Young World clothing chain, a more down-market operation with an existing store on Lexington. Brodie has been told, however, that Young World "might not fit into the mix" as stores try to lure young professionals and students moving into west side apartments.

In the northeast corner of the superblock, Federal Development LLC of Washington would build about 100 apartments over ground-floor retail space. A third developer, Carmel Realty of Philadelphia, would keep four buildings on Howard and move its Valu-Plus store from the Lexington property that the city would acquire for the Chera group.

A fourth firm, the French Development Co. of Baltimore, would knock down existing buildings on a triangular parcel where Park and Liberty meet at Fayette, erecting a five-story office building with no housing.

Lawyer John C. Murphy said the dozen shopkeepers he represents are angry that their individual redevelopment proposals were rejected. Two days before its board made its decision, some got a letter from BDC asking to discuss their ideas.

"I don't know if it was meant as a joke or what, but obviously it lacks good faith," said Murphy.

A few exemptions

The small handful of stores exempted from the superblock project include Barenburg Eye Associates and Van Dyke & Bacon shoes. Brodie said it's possible others will be able to stay.

One issue being closely watched is how many older buildings are saved. In 2000, O'Malley promised preservationists that certain buildings would be protected and that efforts would be made to incorporate others into new projects.

The current plans raise concern at the Maryland Historical Trust, a state agency. The Chera group's "was among the least desirable" from a preservation standpoint, director J. Rodney Little wrote Brodie on Nov. 11.

He noted that its plans envision knocking down buildings whose 1950s storefronts were removed to reveal a historic Woolworth's facade. Little wrote that "further consultation" could lead to a better design.

Brodie also needs to work with the $2 billion Harry and Jeanette Weinberg Foundation, which owns about half of the superblock properties and was once in the vanguard of the west side revitalization effort.

A land swap between Weinberg and the city that would have simplified the superblock project has not occurred for reasons that are not clear.

Copyright © 2004, The Baltimore Sun | Get home delivery

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Hey guys, what are the odd of at least one skyscraper going up in that "Super Block"?
:D I think that there might be a chance of a 15 to 20 storey high-rise, at best. :)

Hey guys, what are the odd of at least one skyscraper going up in that "Super Block"?
:D I think that there might be a chance of a 15 to 20 storey high-rise, at best. :)


I like the proposal, although I would be interested in seeing what Peter Angelos has in mind with his proposal. The key that is missing in Baltimore is a retail district. I think we are going to get an upscale retail district in Harbor East (Williams Sonoma, Crate and Barrel, etc..) but the West Side should serve as a typical mall store shopping district. Imagine a shopping district that goes from Eutaw St to Fells Point. Mall stores on the Westside, trendy stores on Charles to Calvert, of course the harbor, gallery and lockwood. Then have the upscale area at Harbor East. The only thing we are missing are the dollar stores and wig shops that currently litter the westside, but I am sure we can move those to Park Heights at the old Pimlico site :).

The key on the West Side will be getting more people who have cash to live their for "upscale" retail to locate there. If Kali's Court/Starbucks follows through with a lease across from the Hippodrome, this would be a nice start. Kail's Court is an upscale resturaunt like Tio Pepe's and Prime Rib.

I'm really exicited about Harbor Est. Crate and Barrel, Williams Sonoma, Arhouse Furniture , Gaines and Mchale furniture and Four Seasons would be
would create a real "upscale" area in the city(we lack that now).



I like the proposal, although I would be interested in seeing what Peter Angelos has in mind with his proposal. The key that is missing in Baltimore is a retail district. I think we are going to get an upscale retail district in Harbor East (Williams Sonoma, Crate and Barrel, etc..) but the West Side should serve as a typical mall store shopping district. Imagine a shopping district that goes from Eutaw St to Fells Point. Mall stores on the Westside, trendy stores on Charles to Calvert, of course the harbor, gallery and lockwood. Then have the upscale area at Harbor East. The only thing we are missing are the dollar stores and wig shops that currently litter the westside, but I am sure we can move those to Park Heights at the old Pimlico site :).

Happy Thanksgiving folks. There is a lot on the platter today, including two big turkeys - a downtown racetrack and the convention hotel, as being presented today.

Downtown is NOT a suitable location for a racetrack. Why haven't are the professional city planners chimed in on this idea? The city needs a first class arena for professional sports teams, first rate concerts, shows and conventions. How come this is not getting serious attention? The racetrack will lower property values and stymie residential growth. The city needs to increase its tax base and should encourage investment in the CBD. The racetrack requires a huge footprint to accommodate the large oval, seating and stables. The racetrack will also create an odor that will permeate for quite a distance, especially on very hot humid days. Think about it.

The convention hotel is needed, but not the way the city is going about it. The renderings shown earlier depict a structure that is being forced onto those lots in front of Cmeden yards. This plan is further ruined by unsightly ramps leading to the convention center. Those ramps will distract from the view of the newly renovated and treasured Camden Station. That site should be developed as a welcoming into the stadium complex, not hide or impede the view. Some possiblities could be a roller rink in summer and ice skating in winter, perhaps a low rise restaurant on the west side of the site. But whatever goes there should not destroy the stadium and the old Camden Station. The city got that complex right, why ruin it?

A logical place for the convention hotel would be at the present Sheraton site. Use the existing hotel and adjacent parking lot to develop the 750 room facility. It has an easy access to the convention center, non abtrusive.

I don't understand Johnson's role in this turkey project. He pops up with an idea to develope the hotel, then seems to be easing out of any financial responsibility. Now the city is trying to prop him up and save face. This is going to be a disaster. I hope this can be derailed before the site is destroyed and the city is left with a scandal in explaining all the red ink.

Enjoy your turkey

Gary

Please tell me that this Hideous rendering of the new convention center hotel is not the final product! My four year old niece could come up with something that looks better than that!!!! As for the location what the heck are they thinking putting such a monstrosity next to Camden Yards. What happens if and when the convention center needs to expand? How would this hotel impact the views of the Zenith tower? I thought the city was trying to redevelop the West side not add to it's ills! I believe the Mayor, M.J. "Jay" Brodie & the Baltimore Development Corp need to remove their heads from their a** & choose the Westin at the Center project!

I like the proposal, although I would be interested in seeing what Peter Angelos has in mind with his proposal. The key that is missing in Baltimore is a retail district. I think we are going to get an upscale retail district in Harbor East (Williams Sonoma, Crate and Barrel, etc..) but the West Side should serve as a typical mall store shopping district. Imagine a shopping district that goes from Eutaw St to Fells Point. Mall stores on the Westside, trendy stores on Charles to Calvert, of course the harbor, gallery and lockwood. Then have the upscale area at Harbor East. The only thing we are missing are the dollar stores and wig shops that currently litter the westside, but I am sure we can move those to Park Heights at the old Pimlico site :).

I would LOVE for Baltimore to create a grand shopping area that of the same sort as the "Union Square" in beautiful San Francisco! :D Imagine that! :)
Has anyone been to Union Square? It's great!

I love Union Square and "upscale retail" and residential apartments(rents$1,000 and up) are 2 things Baltimore needs more of to become a 24 hour city.

The office towers will follow if we see more retail and apartments/condo's the next few years.

I would LOVE for Baltimore to create a grand shopping area that of the same sort as the "Union Square" in beautiful San Francisco! :D Imagine that! :)
Has anyone been to Union Square? It's great!

Did you get to go to the Macy's lower level food court? Awesome! I ate at Wolf Gang Puc's. It was great food for a VERY reasonable price. That is one thing that really suprised me. Just about everywhere we went, there, the prices were very good. :)

The key on the West Side will be getting more people who have cash to live their for "upscale" retail to locate there. If Kali's Court/Starbucks follows through with a lease across from the Hippodrome, this would be a nice start. Kail's Court is an upscale resturaunt like Tio Pepe's and Prime Rib.

I'm really exicited about Harbor Est. Crate and Barrel, Williams Sonoma, Arhouse Furniture , Gaines and Mchale furniture and Four Seasons would be
would create a real "upscale" area in the city(we lack that now).

I don't seem to hear much about retail on the west side since the demise of the first plan but given the history of the place it seems so obvious. If you've been around here for a while you may remember that area in its last days as a retail and entertainment center. From what I have read, in its vaudeville days Howard street was the Times Square of Baltimore. In its heyday, Howard St was THE high end retail district for the entire metro area and didn't have competition from malls and other areas. I would really like to see that come back but it can't happen until there are a lot of affluent residents to support those businesses. As grimy as the area is now, those low-end stores do support a population and they won't change unless the clientele does. We like to think of those stores as a blight, but that area actually has more retail traffic than any other area downtown. I think the first order of business there should be getting something good into the Abell building. It is quite an attractive hulk but its brooding presence is a drag on the rest of what's happening in the area. I would like to see some sort of residential conversion with retail on the first floor. With that done, there would be a corridor of success connecting the University of MD with the rest of downtown and a synergy between the UM residential buildings and other downtown residential buildings that might start to germinate some desirable retail on the west side.

Does Baltimore have a Macys store? Saks? Tiffineys? :?

none that I am aware of...

Last August I went up to Boston and I loved how they have retail stores right downtown. It would be great to see Baltimore get that kind of attraction. I think people from the region would want to go downtown to shop and see the sights, but there is no real pull on them, except for the restaurants and waterfront. I think returning Eutaw, Howard, and Lexington to their former glory would really propel this city forward by leaps and bounds.

Right now that area is a huge chasm between the Mount Vernon area and where the Univ. of MD is. Wouldn't be great to have that whole area reconnected by retail.

Yes, it would be nice. :)

BTW, here is a pic I just seen at beyonddc :

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e8/Baltimore_Inner_Harborb_Panorama.jpg

We need to get more people to live in the west side who can pay rent of $1,000 or more and throw out the low income stores(pawn shops, etc..)
Baltimore St is still an eyesore. The Abell building, Kali's Court and Starbucks should just complete the Eutaw St renovation.

I'm hoping Kali Court, Starbucks, Zenith apartment house, and the Abell building break ground in 2005.

none that I am aware of...

Last August I went up to Boston and I loved how they have retail stores right downtown. It would be great to see Baltimore get that kind of attraction. I think people from the region would want to go downtown to shop and see the sights, but there is no real pull on them, except for the restaurants and waterfront. I think returning Eutaw, Howard, and Lexington to their former glory would really propel this city forward by leaps and bounds.

Right now that area is a huge chasm between the Mount Vernon area and where the Univ. of MD is. Wouldn't be great to have that whole area reconnected by retail.

ditto.

Please tell me that this Hideous rendering of the new convention center hotel is not the final product! My four year old niece could come up with something that looks better than that!!!! As for the location what the heck are they thinking putting such a monstrosity next to Camden Yards. What happens if and when the convention center needs to expand? How would this hotel impact the views of the Zenith tower? I thought the city was trying to redevelop the West side not add to it's ills! I believe the Mayor, M.J. "Jay" Brodie & the Baltimore Development Corp need to remove their heads from their a** & choose the Westin at the Center project!
As I said a couple months ago, this is pretty hideous. The "Believe Team" proposal was so much better on all counts...it would have been a tall tower on the harbor side of the convention center, and would have left a logical place to build the new arena (next to Oriole Park)

Maybe they can keep arguing about the current proposal long enough that it will go away...building nothing would be far better than that montstrosity, in my opinion. :bash:

As I said a couple months ago, this is pretty hideous. The "Believe Team" proposal was so much better on all counts...it would have been a tall tower on the harbor side of the convention center, and would have left a logical place to build the new arena (next to Oriole Park)

Maybe they can keep arguing about the current proposal long enough that it will go away...building nothing would be far better than that montstrosity, in my opinion. :bash:

I am not sure what you don't like about it. The building matches in with the Convention Center, its a reasonable size for Baltimore as to not block the rest of the skyline. Plus a 750 room hotel could be a huge economic boom to the city. Maybe the other proposal was better looking, but there is more to buildings that looks. I am sure there were other issues with the believe team that caused the city to go with the current proposal. Frankly, I am not sure why we should cram a hotel by a historic church when we have a big empty lot on one of Baltimore's main arteries.

Does Baltimore have a Macys store? Saks? Tiffineys? :?

Not in the city. Sad to say, but all the big stores went belly up in the Howard street area back in the 80's. There are lots of big stores in the burbs, but downtown is still waiting to see big time retail return. Nobody seems to be willing to make that gamble. Maybe as the population increases, it will make more sense. Like another writer on this topic, I was recently in Boston and got real envious about what good stores they have downtown and how many people were out browsing at night. I expect it in NY but Boston is more in the Baltimore range size wise but the retail sector is about an order of magnitude larger.

I believe the lobby space would have been too small for a convention hotel. The lot is very small.


Not in the city. Sad to say, but all the big stores went belly up in the Howard street area back in the 80's. There are lots of big stores in the burbs, but downtown is still waiting to see big time retail return. Nobody seems to be willing to make that gamble. Maybe as the population increases, it will make more sense. Like another writer on this topic, I was recently in Boston and got real envious about what good stores they have downtown and how many people were out browsing at night. I expect it in NY but Boston is more in the Baltimore range size wise but the retail sector is about an order of magnitude larger.

I have sad news folks... This thread must not only be closed, but it must be archived... I have to then create a new thread in its place, and keep doing so every 500 posts...

This is straight from Jan.

I will create the new thread, and then link to the old one at the beginning of it.