Project and Discussions | Road Networks

[docker]

a list of things inprogess or still to come

Perth to Bunbury Hwy http://www.sgalliance.com.au/
Reid Hwy extensions
Reid Hwy overpasses in the mirrabooka area
Mitchell Freeway Extension http://www.mitchellfreewayjoondalup.com.au/default.aspx
Roe Hwy 8
Fremantle Eastern Bypass
Abernathy Road Duplication
Wanneroo Road Duplication
Fremantle Traffic Bridge

and here is the old thread
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=134252

and here is the main roads website
http://www2.mainroads.wa.gov.au/NR/mrwa/run/startr.asp

[Bonga]

Roe Hwy 8
Fremantle Eastern Bypass
Are these back on the agenda? It's no secret that the Libs were in favour of building these roads, but I don't recall hearing any specific pledges from them to do so after the plans were buried by the ALP.

[perthgazer]

Liberal party promise

"Roe 8 Project
A Liberal Government will provide $20 million over the next four years to begin construction of the new Roe Stage 8 project."

http://www.wa.liberal.org.au/index.php?option=com_docman&Itemid=141

[Bonga]

Liberal party promise

"Roe 8 Project
A Liberal Government will provide $20 million over the next four years to begin construction of the new Roe Stage 8 project."

http://www.wa.liberal.org.au/index.php?option=com_docman&Itemid=141
Cheers.

No mention of the FEB. I wonder where they intend for Roe to terminate?

[chrisaus]

The northern freeway extension will probably be open in the next month or so all they need to do it mark the lanes and finish landscaping and its done. I think there is merit in fast tracking the next stage. with libs in power we might have a good chance :)

[AndyGM]

great, more roads....

[bird_of_paradox]

No mention of the FEB. I wonder where they intend for Roe to terminate?

Stock Road, perhaps? There's been a big area reserved for a large Stock Rd / Roe Hwy / Forrest Rd interchange for donkey's years, but west of that it doesn't make so much sense. Especially if there's no FEB - where would they finish it at, Rockingham Rd?

Also, Tonkin Hwy might get extended. (Stage 2: Thomas Rd - Jarrahdale, I think.) And they might duplicate some of those roads in the far northern / southern suburbs that've had one carriageway built, with a very obvious gap for the other one. Last time I was up that way, Burns Beach Rd was one - that may have been done as part of the Mitchell Fwy extension, actually.

[perthgazer]

yes birds of paradox, burns beach road has just about been finished being duplicated to coincide with the opening of mitchell freeway extension

btw that was a local council responsibility, not state

[Auxodium]

Shenton Avenue was also done by Joondalup City council as part of the project when it should of started in 2005

[Bonga]

Stock Road, perhaps? There's been a big area reserved for a large Stock Rd / Roe Hwy / Forrest Rd interchange for donkey's years, but west of that it doesn't make so much sense. Especially if there's no FEB - where would they finish it at, Rockingham Rd?
Yeah, Stock Road would be my guess.

I doubt they'd connect it directly to Rockingham Road, but it would probably be technically possible (although not very beneficial or popular). I guess they could terminate it at Cockburn/Hampton Road, but that would be a bit of a nightmare.

From memory, an early plan (possibly the 1955 Stephenson-Hepburn plan?) proposed having Roe go all the way to Marine Terrace, which would itself become a Fremantle "western highway." Can you imagine the outroar if they tried that today? :lol:

Not that I'm advocating building this road at all, but I've often wondered if extending Stirling Hwy to terminate at South St (but not taking it any further south) is an option they've considered. That would enable a Roe Hwy-South St-Stirling Hwy journey, which would be simpler than the present Roe Hwy-Kwinana Fwy-Leach Hwy-Stirling Hwy arrangement (or Roe-Stock-Leach-Stirling, if Roe gets extended to Stock). It would also leave Clontarf Hill intact. Of course, the extra traffic that would end up on South St as a result would probably make it politically unacceptable.

[crazyknightsfan]

Someone please explain to me what the point of diverting freight traffic OFF the FREEWAY and onto Stock Road would be?

Freeways are built to take the freight traffic off other roads :nuts:

[Bonga]

Someone please explain to me what the point of diverting freight traffic OFF the FREEWAY and onto Stock Road would be?

Freeways are built to take the freight traffic off other roads :nuts:
It would take freight traffic off the 4-5 km section of Leach Hwy between Stock Road and the freeway.

Stock Road is itself more of a highway than a typical suburban road, and as far as I know has always been intended to be a major freight route (except for the northernmost section).

[crazyknightsfan]

Stock Road is itself more of a highway than a typical suburban road, and as far as I know has always been intended to be a major freight route (except for the northernmost section).

Sounds like you are describing Leach Highway...

[aaronaugi1]

Sounds like you are describing Leach Highway...

Yeah, Canningvale-Fremantle. Always intended for frieght that couldn't use the railway.

[PD]

There is a reserve that would enable, and was intended, to enable roe to go past Stock road. I think if they are going to finish roe then they should build the FEB.

Roe 8 will enable Cockburn residents quicker access to freeway and in the same way that Roe 5, 6, 7 were a success , why would not this be so?

[Dilaz89]

Stage 8 would sit right next to Bibra Lake hence the enviro concerns and FEB would divide Sth Freo/Beaconsfied/White Gum Valley.

[chrisaus]

bah build a tunnel/bridge :)

[Ipggi]

And toll it! :P

[chrisaus]

2 things that will never happen in this town one tolls two pokies, well atleast without a full scale riot.

[aaronaugi1]

2 things that will never happen in this town one tolls two pokies, well atleast without a full scale riot.

They're justified when there is frequent, reliable, well serviced, cheap public transport....

[Skyline Art]

2 things that will never happen in this town one tolls two pokies, well atleast without a full scale riot.

Is that why the mayor of Wanneroo City a couple of months ago proposed to put a Casino (in exchange for not being allowed to have pokies) somewhere up at Yanchep to revitalise the centre and provide a more vibrant hub of activity etc.... :lol:


I think the Mayor at one point indicated they should be allowed to put Pokies in some place up that way as they deserve it, and it would boost their local economy, it was about time Perth got a second Casino i think was his words in the local paper... or something along those lines.............

[Auxodium]

i would rather a second casino on th site of the burswood dome. give people more of a choice and make it a casino district :)

[Bump]

They're justified when there is frequent, reliable, well serviced, cheap public transport....

It would need to be cheap if people want to spend their money on the pokies.

Is there any 'possible toll' route in Perth that has frequent, reliable, well service, cheap public transport?

[aaronaugi1]

It would need to be cheap if people want to spend their money on the pokies.

Is there any 'possible toll' route in Perth that has frequent, reliable, well service, cheap public transport?

Cough Mitchell Freeway, cough GFF.

[Ipggi]

Well I don't think you would ever see a tolling of existing roads. But I could imagine a few situations were they might introduce a toll.

I couldn't see Perth building a new tunnel/bridge freeway system aka the Graham Farmer Freeway / Northbridge tunnel again without a toll?

If they tolled the ring highway roads, you could bet they would be upgraded to freeway grade.

[Dilaz89]

the infamous perth merge in action

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v42/mdilaz/Image154.jpg

[Perth4life]

Is it just me or do they need to make some Parts of Stirling hwy 70km/ph limit? And why is riverside drive only 60?

[Johnvb]

Is it just me or do they need to make some Parts of Stirling hwy 70km/ph limit? And why is riverside drive only 60?

yes for sure, I think they are hesitant to do it because its a revenue raiser for them, a kinda of western suburbs 'tax' where the constant multinovas and 60kmh limit must make them a bloody fortune with all the sports cars hooning past :)

[Ipggi]

Is it just me or do they need to make some Parts of Stirling hwy 70km/ph limit? And why is riverside drive only 60?

Fix speed limits are there for universal periods. So for example 60kmph needs to be suitable for both off-peak and peak traffic periods.

[acc521]

My dad was trying to turn right off Murray St onto William St and he was in the middle lane so had his indicator on to change into the right hand lane and not one person would let him in. About 6 just continued then 2 sped up when there was space just to stop him from getting in. It's sad that this type of behaviour is not uncommon in Perth.

[Dilaz89]

I just slowly push in when it comes to those situations. The person behind me will be forced to apply the break.

I can't stand it because I ALWAYS let people in without fail. I can tell people are overly cautious when making such moves because they move across so slowly.

Riverside drive should be reduced to 50km. 60 is too fast for the city's most prominent parkway.

[Perth4life]

i meant mounts bay road not riverside drive, ignore that comment.

[chrisaus]

people find it to difficult to have to read 2 sets of signs within the one street :)

[PD]

On the other hand ppl should try to get into the lane they need to be in earlier in order to be able to turn without hassle. Too many drivers drive along in whatever lane they deem to be fastest and then actually help to slow traffic by wanting to change lanes whilst approaching an intersection etc.

2c

[Auxodium]

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/2139/perth115xpp2.jpg

[chrisaus]

riverside drive isnt it

[Auxodium]

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1320/perth185pc9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1320/perth185pc9.6c57b61505.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=215&i=perth185pc9.jpg)

[Skyline Art]

^^ What is with the last pic, are u refering to the previous photo or the crane on top of it (well the distant crane on top)?

[Skyline Art]

Does anyone know what is happening with the Mitchell Freeway update? Main Roads Website has changed and the update has gone backwards to an older month "May", despite having mentioned there is public art on the under pass

[Scraperfan]

opens later this month im quite sure. it certainly is looking finished anyway.

theres already lots of graffiti on the hodges drive noise wall.

the variable message signs have had zero progress over the last 3 months, id like to know what the fuck is going on with them.

[Auxodium]

No, it doesnt look ready until 2 months time. There is a a lot of roadworks that need to be done outside of the freeway and i noticed electrical work needing to be done.

Signage is easy as that is starting to go up. And i saw some electricians programming the Traffic lights. Burns Beach Road has a lot of work to be done to it, especially at Connolly drive round about

[hack404]

Apparently ready by the end of the month. They had to wait for the COJ to finish Burns Beach roadworks.

[Auxodium]

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/3291/joondalup004jq3.jpg
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/160/joondalup002zf4.jpg
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/6425/joondalup006sz3.jpg
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/1193/joondalup003ua5.jpg
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/9182/joondalup008tw7.jpg
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/2652/joondalup005ji6.jpg
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/4682/joondalup049xq8.jpg
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/2671/joondalup051df2.jpg
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/453/joondalup010rh3.jpg
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/7448/joondalup007ni2.jpg
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/8460/joondalup012fl3.jpg
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/9528/joondalup009xs2.jpg

[Scraperfan]

woah. looks awesome.

now just to bring in the landscapers!

[Auxodium]

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/6875/joondalup014op4.jpg
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/9129/joondalup001st3.jpg
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/8253/joondalup011qu6.jpg
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/8033/joondalup013pl1.jpg
http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/6758/joondalup019hu3.jpg
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/395/joondalup016ow1.jpg
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/2681/joondalup017go5.jpg
http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/6796/joondalup018bb2.jpg

^^^^expect these to be tagged within 24 hours, i walked past the painters lovely man and woman team working on it and you could see how much pride they had in making these... shame when they get tagged up... which i didnt show further down the ramp

http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/2762/joondalup024pc9.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/2875/joondalup020rz1.jpg
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/8353/joondalup021od1.jpg
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/1862/joondalup022fc9.jpg
http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/3558/joondalup023sd7.jpg

[Auxodium]

http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/227/joondalup028vz5.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/8953/joondalup025dj6.jpg
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/9020/joondalup026my3.jpg
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/4668/joondalup027uj3.jpg
http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/2462/joondalup032bb4.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/4291/joondalup029we8.jpg
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/116/joondalup030tn9.jpg
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/7592/joondalup031ky2.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/1755/joondalup033le9.jpg
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/3544/joondalup034lr1.jpg
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/7976/joondalup041wr9.jpg
http://img366.imageshack.us/img366/9107/joondalup046hx1.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/5443/joondalup043fo0.jpg
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/4/joondalup044ed7.jpg
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/9231/joondalup048jv5.jpg
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/9868/joondalup045vk2.jpg
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8220/joondalup047rt8.jpg
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/6545/joondalup052hz6.jpg
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/551/joondalup050ra8.jpg

[crazyknightsfan]

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/2139/perth115xpp2.jpg

My guess is LEFT LANE(S)

[PD]

So when does this open?

[Perth4life]

what the hell is it, fwy extension? What's the train line :S

[crazyknightsfan]

Thanks for the pics, Aux :banana:

[Qbriserth]

what the hell is it, fwy extension? What's the train line :S

Mitchell Freeway Extension to Burns Beach Road, looks like one section is 6 lanes, wow thought it was only to be built to 4 lanes with provision for 6.

The Rail Way is the Joondalup Line or now should be called Clarkson Line....

Alas looks like the Currambine Stretch North bound could easily take on another 6 lanes on top of whats there now in the future :lol: :lol:

They should replace that roundabout on Connolly and Burns Beach with a set of lights, there have been so many stacks this year there when I was there. Lived 5 mins walk from that intersection and could see that roundabout people not knowing how to use it or risking it speeding through and then exiting on the wrong lane... Some fool cut me off once and nearly clipped me as the roundabout exiting Connolly to the East on Burns merges fairly immediately to one lane. :bash:

[acc521]

Those photos remind me of why I hate sprawl. Just like when you see articles about interest rates with the token panned out view of the tops of one story houses in a new development.

[Auxodium]

true... maybe you are right CKF... if it was "LEFT LANES" that would help the styupid perth drivers who continuously chop lanes in a last minute panic


BTW

Hodges to Shenton is THREE lanes and Shenton to Burns Beach is 2 lanes... with room for 3... i assume they will make it 3 all the way up

[Scraperfan]

i love how brand new it all looks.

theres SO MUCH landscaping to be done! we need 100 000 tons of black dirt, stat.

[Perth4life]

wow, so they realigned the tracks onto it , or wasn't it already following the freeway reserve?

[hack404]

wow, so they realigned the tracks onto it , or wasn't it already following the freeway reserve?

This map (http://www.mainroads.wa.gov.au/_layouts/getAsset.aspx?URI=2017459&REV=1&RCN=D08#155874) shows the change of alignment...

[Scraperfan]

p4l, as the map will show, the track diverts from the freeway just before hodges drive to the centre of joondalup.

it then rejoins the freeway after shenton avenue.

so the section that has no rail in the centre is 3 lanes. its the only part of the mitchell freeway not to have any rail in the centre.

[crazyknightsfan]

^^

In the interests of pedantry, the section of Mitchell Freeway from the Narrows Interchange to near the Graham Farmer Freeway junction also has no rail in the centre ;)

[Perth4life]

those bland walls look like they need a bit of colour..

[L2]

those bland walls look like they need a bit of colour..
Are you going to add some? ;)

[scotdaliney]

Mitchell Freeway Extension to Burns Beach Road, looks like one section is 6 lanes, wow thought it was only to be built to 4 lanes with provision for 6.

The Rail Way is the Joondalup Line or now should be called Clarkson Line....

Alas looks like the Currambine Stretch North bound could easily take on another 6 lanes on top of whats there now in the future :lol: :lol:

They should replace that roundabout on Connolly and Burns Beach with a set of lights, there have been so many stacks this year there when I was there. Lived 5 mins walk from that intersection and could see that roundabout people not knowing how to use it or risking it speeding through and then exiting on the wrong lane... Some fool cut me off once and nearly clipped me as the roundabout exiting Connolly to the East on Burns merges fairly immediately to one lane. :bash:

Roundabouts are many fold more safer than traffic lights. Statistics from EVERY country that uses them including Australia shows this overwhelmingly. They also are much more efficient. I never understand people that want roundabouts replaced with lights.

[crazyknightsfan]

Not this argument again.

I'd be quite interested to see these statistics you speak of.

[scotdaliney]

Not this argument again.

I'd be quite interested to see these statistics you speak of.

ok give me an hour, though I do believe they have been put in here before.

[crazyknightsfan]

:)

I don't remember them from the last argument, but they could have been posted before my time.

[Auxodium]

Are you going to add some? ;)

BG they already have... i just never showed the pictures

[scotdaliney]

USA
"An Insurance Institute study of 24 intersections before and after roundabouts found the new device reduced the number of injury-causing crashes by 76 percent and crashes that caused fatal or incapacitating injuries by 90 percent."
http://www.dailygazette.com/news/2008/sep/28/0928_roundabout/

Australia
"Furthermore, intersections controlled by traffic signals
generally exhibit lower safety performance than comparable intersections controlled by
roundabouts."
http://www.monash.edu.au/muarc/reports/muarc007.pdf

"The morning commenced with a plenary session: Speeding, Still Our Biggest Road Safety Issue. The
Commander of NSW Police John Hartley chaired this session. Bruce Corben Senior Research Fellow,
Monash University Accident Research Centre gave an overview of effective speed management
countermeasures and in particular spoke about intersections being major contributors to road trauma. In
particular intersection design with a focus on roundabouts which have many of the right systems for safe
system approach. Some of the safe system approach’s are having to move to a moderate approach speed
to enter a roundabout. Favourable impact angles, fewer points of conflict and decreased operation and
maintenance costs overtime. Roundabouts change the angle of impact and halve the Kinetic impact
(significant reduction in Kinetic energy).
In the future there will be some traffic lights replaced with roundabouts. A major research study will be
held this year to investigate and move towards compatible design of roundabouts/intersections. Bruce
Corben finished by saying “that spending a little more money at the beginning saves having to revisit an
area in the future”."
http://www.australianfamilymatters.com.au/UserFiles/File/2007_Local_Government_Road_Safety_Conference.pdf

Queensland
1994 - 2003 fatalities - traffic lights - 159 Roundabouts - 17.
(admittedly I don't know the ratios so this last one doesn't say much. impression wise though it seemed to me that QLD has many more roundabouts than Perth.

http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/resources/file/ebbb01022986d5b/Road_traffic_crash_report_2003_V2.pdf

[crazyknightsfan]

Interesting Scot, thanks for those. I will see if I can dig up anything else tomorrow.

[Qbriserth]

Currently and primarily along the Pacific Highway in Logan Area, most of the exits join round abouts or stop signs and not traffic lights so your point is correct. Even on the Gold Coast most exits have roundabouts at the ends not traffic lights, same up at Sunshine Coast. However I have issues with three round abouts in the Logan area which have been increasingly been hell over the past few years, when I came back from Perth recently I noticed it has worsened yet again. Anyway they probably won't put lights up for another two years as they're slow here with road works....

I am aware of three major exits which will have roundabouts removed and replaced with traffic lights to make them more safe. Currently the exit at Daisy Hill Road and Loganlea has two roundabouts on either side of the freeway exits and share entry lanes too, not to mention two major roads and the only major roads to go west... so there's usually a prang peak, but off peak they're no problem as there's bugger all traffic on them anyway.

[scotdaliney]

Currently and primarily along the Pacific Highway in Logan Area, most of the exits join round abouts or stop signs and not traffic lights so your point is correct. Even on the Gold Coast most exits have roundabouts at the ends not traffic lights, same up at Sunshine Coast. However I have issues with three round abouts in the Logan area which have been increasingly been hell over the past few years, when I came back from Perth recently I noticed it has worsened yet again. Anyway they probably won't put lights up for another two years as they're slow here with road works....

I am aware of three major exits which will have roundabouts removed and replaced with traffic lights to make them more safe. Currently the exit at Daisy Hill Road and Loganlea has two roundabouts on either side of the freeway exits and share entry lanes too, not to mention two major roads and the only major roads to go west... so there's usually a prang peak, but off peak they're no problem as there's bugger all traffic on them anyway.
I agree there is a saturation point where roundabouts stop being as safe (though still safer than traffic lights). If traffic volumes get to this point then people are forced tom take risks to get accross. Though to be fair the same happens at traffic lights. In the UK when this happens they use Signalized roundabouts which would seem to keep the best of both worlds as in off peak times they can be turned off and the right hand turn is still removed. Unlike most on here I would say if volumes are that high, grade seperation should be the answer.

[Scraperfan]

holy shit.

i cant believe i didnt know of that hybrid system.

sounds perfect! photo please. :)

[crazyknightsfan]

Crappy pic from the intersection of Old Windsor Rd & Seven Hills Rd in Sydney. This intersection was upgraded from priority control to roundabout control in the 1980s. The signals were added in the mid-or-late 1990s (maybe when the M2 opened?) and then finally replaced by a signalised intersection in about 2003.

http://www.ozroads.com.au/misc/looking%20north%20to%20shr%201999-2.jpg

When the signals are in operation, the "ROUNDABOUT OPERATING" sign changes message to "SIGNALS OPERATING".

There's a few of these around - the only one I can think of off the top of my head though is the intersection of University Drive and the main entrance to Newcastle Uni. Its obviously there to help peak period traffic get out of the Uni ;)

[Qbriserth]

^^ Yeah at the moment there are signalised traffic signals for STOP AND GO WHEN CLEAR at the Daisy Hill Road & Loganlea Rds (one of the 3) intersections where the freeway exit/entry ramps meet... they only operate during peak... and they are good... just that they back the traffic up on the freeway too if a jam occurs at the second roundabout entering the freeway.... but i blame all that on the merging lanes being too short or the run up exits too short....

There is therefore a cycle.... :lol: you can't win....

The traffic signals as far as im aware operate here on that roundabout between 7:45am and 8:45am and between 4:30pm and 6pm Mon to Friday only.... well that is when i have passed through and seen them in work..

BTW the situation is not like the above pic, it is only to let the traffic on the left go around the roundabout from exiting the freeway.... not for any other direction...

[crazyknightsfan]

Thanks for jogging the memory, Qbrisperth. These are a different variation - they look to only be on some approaches, whereas the ones in Sydney I posted were on all approaches.

http://www.ozroads.com.au/misc/P1140208.JPG

[scotdaliney]

<a href="http://s219.photobucket.com/albums/cc31/scottieboy102/?action=view&current=signalisedroundabout.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc31/scottieboy102/signalisedroundabout.jpg" border="0" alt="signalized roundabout"></a>

[acc521]

Is the Pacific Hwy the one that's kind of canyon like between Gold Coast and Brisbane? If so I love it - so many lush tropical plants around the "canyon walls".

[crazyknightsfan]

Is the Pacific Hwy the one that's kind of canyon like between Gold Coast and Brisbane? If so I love it - so many lush tropical plants around the "canyon walls".

Yes, that's the one. Pacific Highway a.k.a Pacific Motorway a.k.a the M1 (zomg a route marker :))

The photo I posted is from an interchange on the old section though.

[Auxodium]

Thanks for jogging the memory, Qbrisperth. These are a different variation - they look to only be on some approaches, whereas the ones in Sydney I posted were on all approaches.

http://www.ozroads.com.au/misc/P1140208.JPG

should have that at Wanneroo and Beach Road intersection... that is so slow that area

[Auxodium]

OH NO TRAFFIC MAYHEM!

http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/6884/08102008381tm7.jpg

[docker]

Perth to Bunbury Hwy http://www.sgalliance.com.au/
Mitchell Freeway Extension http://www.mitchellfreewayjoondalup.com.au/default.aspx

[DM8]

Mitchell Freeway Extension: Grand Opening - Sunday, November 2

[chrisaus]

Cool hopefully next Tonkin, Roe and Reid can be made into fully fledged freeway, should be on the future perth agenda imo.

[Skyline Art]

http://www.mitchellfreewayjoondalup.com.au/

Doesn't say much about the opening of the Sunday 2nd of November opening other than saying it will open then...

:lol:,not sure about this though:

Public art colours freeway extension
The noise walls feature geometric shapes in uniform colours to represent the natural environment while the abutments, or bridge supports, feature art that gives a changing effect as people drive past, providing the illusion of three-dimensional depth.

hmm, would be nice to see the art, but it may increase chances for a smash.:nuts: i.e. looking at the art work to see it change then after quick reflexes having to hit on the brakes when the traffic infront has changed from free flow to a slow or stop flow due to a traffic jam up the road.

Im all up for public art as long as it isn't like this:
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p300/IFB83/ufo.gif
That is some serious crazy mind spinning art. found on google images

I think there are studies done into certain public arts which ad to the stats of traffic smashes.

[Dilaz89]

It costs $70m to retrofit just one highway intersection with a standard diamond interchange. Is it really worth it to save a few minutes?

Alot of people also argue there needs to be a south bound ramp from Manning road to the freeway. I timed how long it took me to get from Manning road to fwy south. 3 minutes and I got both sets of traffic lights.

Is it really worth it?

[Auxodium]

FP must be also about roads too you know... our rtoad system is shocking... numbering, signage and freeway standards need to be met


it is when you drive along reid highway... think about freight... it slows the whole system down with the current set up... you spend ages waiting at lights to get through to the next section to only wait again!


oh... ONLY IN PERTH....

[Dilaz89]

There are enough road lobbys out there aux. If only we had the influence they have.

[Bonga]

... numbering, signage and freeway standards need to be met
Why?

[DM8]

FP must be also about roads too you know... our rtoad system is shocking... numbering, signage and freeway standards need to be met


^^ ????? Try living in Adelaide!

The signage in Perth is amongst the best in the country, I reckon. Route numbers I never really paid much attention to. I can understand the frustration with Tonkin Hwy, Reid Hwy, etc - I used to drive up and down Tonkin and Reid from Leach Hwy to Malaga Drv every day to and from work. But look at it this way: at least they're controlled access highways (imagine the chaos if they were all built up with houses and driveways).

[Auxodium]

because it is terrible in the current state. yeah sure locals dont need it but the signage is rather...absent at best in most areas and for guests it is rather annoying... and statewide it is rather absent

i think road issues are JUST as IMPORTANT as any foreshore plan for FP to be honest

[acc521]

There are enough road lobbys out there aux. If only we had the influence they have.

So true. I think this sort of thing should be left to the RAC for example. We can always offer support if we like a proposal.

[Auxodium]

but roads are still important to perth and i think we should support moves like freeway standardisation of Ried, Tonkin & Roe highways

[acc521]

Agreed. Support where appropriate. Anyway, time to take this line of discussion to the FP forums.

[docker]

yes we support, but we don't try and get it to happen, we leave that to the road lobbying industries.

[Auxodium]

well it is required and i will back it... plus it would get many people in that area aware that FP thinks of them also

[samboy]

A clever technique that a lot of groups use is to support something POPULAR that they may not necessarily be interested in to establish their presence within the community and use that leverage to forge ahead with their REAL agenda.

[chrisaus]

It costs $70m to retrofit just one highway intersection with a standard diamond interchange. Is it really worth it to save a few minutes?

Alot of people also argue there needs to be a south bound ramp from Manning road to the freeway. I timed how long it took me to get from Manning road to fwy south. 3 minutes and I got both sets of traffic lights.

Is it really worth it?

yes, because they are major trucking and freight routes, which drive the economy, plus they will form a good alternative the the traditional mitchell/kwinana freeway, provide a good bypass. PT is imprortant but we cant deny the needs for a good road network

[Auxodium]

HERE HERE!

[Bonga]

I don't feel that FP needs to get involved in promoting highway upgrades. It has little to do with the group's stated aims (http://www.futureperth.org/pages.asp?pagesID=6), and arguably contradicts them in some ways. I think we also need to be careful not to spread ourselves too thin (in terms of the breadth of the group's interests), particularly at such an early stage.

If anyone wants to discuss this further, I suggest starting a thread in the FP forums.

[perthgazer]

The seven new variable message signs (VMS) on the Mitchell and Kwinana freeways will be going up 2mw night and tuesday night.

[chrisaus]

they should get the variable speed signs for road work zones/school zones etc... they have them in nsw

[chrisaus]

there was about a dozen suites wearing high vis vests at corner of ried/alexander no dought main roads discussing the proposed overpass. I cant help but wish they would commit to mirrabooka as well, they are both blind intersections with vehicles travelling through at a posted 80 km/h speed limit, dangerous.

[crazyknightsfan]

Reduce it to 40km/h if it's so difficult for you to negotiate

[chrisaus]

Reduce it to 40km/h if it's so difficult for you to negotiate

That’s intelligent having a 90 km/h zone suddenly change to 40km/h

[crazyknightsfan]

Well traffic has to slow to below 40km/h to stop at the traffic signals anyway :nuts:

[chrisaus]

yes but they have flashing amber lights before to pre warn, meaning if they arnt' flashing you have cars passing at 80km/h and many cars have been known to the run the red light cause fatal accidents.

[crazyknightsfan]

So slow them down on approach to the intersections then. A 40km/h zone with a speed camera will do the trick crudely but ultimately effectively.

Only a nutter would run a red at 80km/h! Seems you have plenty of them in Perth.

[chrisaus]

having a 90km/h zone reduce to a 40 km/h is against main roads road design policy, speed zones can only drop 20 km/h at a time, and its not vehicles running red lights at 80km/h its that you have reid highway at 80 km/h with mirrabooka avenue have totatly blind corners and the fact if you get someone going through a red light at even 20 km/h its going to be a very serious accident. do you even live in wa sounds like you havent used the intersection in question.

[chrisaus]

btw there are statistics that show 358 traffic accidents reported in the past five years for reid x alexander

[crazyknightsfan]

having a 90km/h zone reduce to a 40 km/h is against main roads road design policy, speed zones can only drop 20 km/h at a time

So then put in transitional speed zones which is what MRWA does when it wants to reduce speeds by more than 20-30km/h.

E.g. 90 down to 60 then down to 40


and its not vehicles running red lights at 80km/h its that you have reid highway at 80 km/h with mirrabooka avenue have totatly blind corners

I don't see how blind corners are relevant to the simple operation of a signalised intersection - Red = stop, green = go.

and the fact if you get someone going through a red light at even 20 km/h its going to be a very serious accident.

What do you want to do about it? Remove all traffic signals?

do you even live in wa sounds like you havent used the intersection in question.

No and no.

[RocStar]

lol as if anyone would want to slow down to 40 on a busy highway. It’s hard enough slowing at 40 on a school zone.

[scotdaliney]

[QUOTE=crazyknightsfan;26801446]So then put in transitional speed zones which is what MRWA does when it wants to reduce speeds by more than 20-30km/h.

E.g. 90 down to 60 then down to 40




I don't see how blind corners are relevant to the simple operation of a signalised intersection - Red = stop, green = go.



What do you want to do about it? Remove all traffic signals?



Thats why roundabouts are better, everyone MUST slow down. Even if there are accidents there not as bad.

<a href="http://s219.photobucket.com/albums/cc31/scottieboy102/?action=view&current=roundaboutoverpass.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc31/scottieboy102/roundaboutoverpass.jpg" border="0" alt="roundabout intersection"></a>

[chrisaus]

So then put in transitional speed zones which is what MRWA does when it wants to reduce speeds by more than 20-30km/h.

E.g. 90 down to 60 then down to 40




I don't see how blind corners are relevant to the simple operation of a signalised intersection - Red = stop, green = go.



What do you want to do about it? Remove all traffic signals?



No and no.

As I said before they cant reduce it from 90 to 60 the max would be 90 to 70 so you would have to go 90 to 70 so 50 to 40 which means 3 speed zones to slow down then after would go 40 to 60 to 80 to 90, thats a joke man esp if the light is green and considering between the freeway and tonkin highway there are well over half a dozen set of lights. and no shit you supposed to stop on a red light but doesent one accident a week+ show people dont follow that.

and yes i want them to built a bridge there that was the whole point of a my comments.

[chrisaus]

round about are fine in places with light/medium traffic but not reid highway that has heavy traffic and road trains.

[scotdaliney]

round about are fine in places with light/medium traffic but not reid highway that has heavy traffic and road trains.

I've seen roundsabouts work fine in some damn heavy traffic (UK). as long as there is an evenish ammount of traffic from each direction.
Even if it a tad slower (which I don't think it is) it is still much safer. Good luck trying to slow people down at lights. Most people speed up to beat the light change.

[Dilaz89]

The focus needs to be on rail transport rather than road transport. The previous government rebuilt part of the freight line to fremantle to get trucks off leach hwy but the N, NE corridors of the city have no freight rail lines at all.

[scotdaliney]

Yes roads are evil. Which one of you
guys are gonna come help me carry all my tools, cable, jointing kits ect, ect to all my different jobs each day on the train. And the other 100,000 tradies out there, and that is only one group of people out of many that need a safe and useful road network.
A false dichotomy seems to exist in many peoples minds between, roads and vibrant urban area's.

[Dilaz89]

I don't buy that argument what so ever.

More trucks and personal use vehicles off the road means faster trips for those like tradies who must drive. It's that simple.

[chrisaus]

there is no way a city like perth will ever have decent PT figures, its a city set up for long car trips, plus roads are just as important as rail imo, i deff am all for improving and expanding the rail system,, but i support upgrading roads just as much, thats not to say widening, but making road safer and more efficient by making them freeway standard . at the end of the day we all use cars and we all always will.

[chrisaus]

Yes roads are evil. Which one of you
guys are gonna come help me carry all my tools, cable, jointing kits ect, ect to all my different jobs each day on the train. And the other 100,000 tradies out there, and that is only one group of people out of many that need a safe and useful road network.
A false dichotomy seems to exist in many peoples minds between, roads and vibrant urban area's.

i'd be intrested to see it in action on a busy road. aparantly in france if cars are in your way that just ramm them out of the road and when parking etc haha

[scotdaliney]

i'd be intrested to see it in action on a busy road. aparantly in france if cars are in your way that just ramm them out of the road and when parking etc haha

Most of Europe have fantastic motorway systems compared to us. They also have good PT, High density, and lively town centers. This was my experience in the Uk as well.

[izza]

I don't see how blind corners are relevant to the simple operation of a signalised intersection - Red = stop, green = go.


Because you still have the small minority of people, VERRY SMALL GROUP, that think they own the road and if they wanna go thru a red light they will. They are dickheads.
Its like all people, an atitude problem.
I travel the road almost daily and i slow down to about 60-70 going thru the lights even if the amber warning lights arnt flashing. It is on of the scraest parts of road in Perth i reakon.

[Auxodium]

Yes roads are evil. Which one of you
guys are gonna come help me carry all my tools, cable, jointing kits ect, ect to all my different jobs each day on the train. And the other 100,000 tradies out there, and that is only one group of people out of many that need a safe and useful road network.
A false dichotomy seems to exist in many peoples minds between, roads and vibrant urban area's.

im sure dilaz will help you ;) we must rip up roads as they are evil :lol:


we need efficient road system as well as PT system we just cant be closed minded and just say use trains and not roads...

i support the need to upgrading Perth's highways to be freeway standard as well as other roads in teh city that are of a poor standard

[scotdaliney]

Because you still have the small minority of people, VERRY SMALL GROUP, that think they own the road and if they wanna go thru a red light they will. They are dickheads.
Its like all people, an atitude problem.
I travel the road almost daily and i slow down to about 60-70 going thru the lights even if the amber warning lights arnt flashing. It is on of the scraest parts of road in Perth i reakon.

I consider myself someone who tries to 'only drive' while driving and keep my attention on the road and those around me. But I admit there have been a few times I've spaced out and didn't see a red light till the last second (thankfully in time). It only takes ONCE to kill yourself. That's why I believe roundabouts are always the best option, even if signalised. It is always much safer. The deflection angle one comes into a roundabout makes any accident only a fender bender.

[samboy]

Most of Europe have fantastic motorway systems compared to us. They also have good PT, High density, and lively town centers. This was my experience in the Uk as well.

You hit the nail on the head - High density!!
Most of Perth's inadequacies come from LOW density and thus having to offset any expenditure against a significantly smaller catchment.
Also let's not forget, a lot of the good roads interstate/overseas are TOLL roads. Can you imagine the outcry over here if they introduced tollways? People would be jumping off buildings. Pensioners starving to death!! (even those who don't drive ;))

[bennyboy777]

Perth's roads are fine. There are some embarrassing problem spots like around the airport and the Reid/Roe/Tonkin highways but I think the problem mainly lies with the driving standards in Perth which are woeful. Public Transport in Perth will never be great if we continue to live in our McMansions 40km from the CBD. I don't agree with toll ways either, there not necessary here at this present time.

[chrisaus]

horrie miller x tonkin is a joke can take more than half a dozen light changes to get through

[Auxodium]

Perth's roads are fine. There are some embarrassing problem spots like around the airport and the Reid/Roe/Tonkin highways but I think the problem mainly lies with the driving standards in Perth which are woeful. Public Transport in Perth will never be great if we continue to live in our McMansions 40km from the CBD. I don't agree with toll ways either, there not necessary here at this present time.

perth roads... woeful

[samboy]

perth roads... woeful

But that's such a generalised comment. What are you comparing to specifically? (please include name/type of road in other city/country)

[dazzyd]

perth roads... woeful

i disagree mate. now sydney roads that is woeful!!. certain parts of melbourne too.

[Auxodium]

i disagree mate. now sydney roads that is woeful!!. certain parts of melbourne too.

not as bad as some cities and Perth has good roads compared to other places... but major roads... terrible

[chrisaus]

Perth's road arnt woeful but they certainly arnt effective and safe when it comes to freight and truck traffic and it lacks alternative to the traditional freeway system.

[Dilaz89]

I can't believe I can cross the city from the southern suburbs to Joondalup in just half an hour by car. The same trip in Melbourne would take much longer and I'd probably have to pay a toll along the way.

Driving in Perth is a dream. That's why people love their cars so much.

[chrisaus]

Perth isnt melbourne though melbourne has an extra 2 million people and the road network and suburbs are set up alot differently. and try doing that at 4 or 5pm your looking at an hour and a half. or try going from midland to joondalup or kewdale to fremantle, then our dreams road arnt so flash hot.

[Dilaz89]

Midland to Joondalup isn't too far at all. Same as Kewdale to Fremantle which has a freight rail link.

[docker]

the road network is brillant which is what i think Dilaz is trying to get at, it's all connected and toll free (which is awesome) but Chrisaus and Aux are trying to say the actual road standard is shit, which i would agree with. apart from the freeways and part of reid hwy and the new sections of tonkin and roe hwy's the road surfaces and intersections are horrible.

and your right when you say that one set of traffic lights isn't bad, but when you go from midland to joondalup along roe and reid hwy and catch about 4 out of the 6 or so lights, that in itself adds on atleast 10mins. especially when sections of reid hwy is still single lane in each direction (even though they are meant to be building the new section)

[Scrawny]

What about the ridiculous 100km/h speed limit. I drive to work in Belgium every day on the national highway network, (which I assure you is nowhere near as good as perths) and I sit on 150km/h. That's the normal speed that most other cars are doing and there are sill plenty overtaking me. I almost went crazy when I was driving back to Perth from down south over christmas on the beautiful smooth kwinana freeway, with clean wide lanes, breakdown lanes, clear linemarking, no suprises - and had to sit on 100. It feels like you're not moving at all, it put's you to sleep I swear.

[perthgazer]

Perth drivers merging into 150kmh traffic? That's crazy talk.

[Scrawny]

...hehe, yeah true, but hey... you learn.

[crazyknightsfan]

The road standards are not there for 150km/h, especially acceleration and deceleration lanes.

It's not just Perth drivers that can't merge - on my way to the soccer in Newcastle on Saturday, I passed drivers slowing down on the merge lane out of the service centre on the F3 :nuts:

[Scrawny]

Yeah maybe to australian standards, but if we're doing the euro comparison, I reckon the worst merging scenario in perth, on any of the major freeways or major highways, would be better than most of the similar situations in Belgium. I think we're just so used to being spoilt in Australia.

[Scrawny]

I find this fascinating. This guy, a traffic engineer, makes intersections safer by removing all signage and linemarking, causing drivers to (gasp!!) take responsibility for their actions.:

Riding in his green Saab, we glide into Drachten, a 17th-century village that has grown into a bustling town of more than 40,000. We pass by the performing arts center, and suddenly, there it is: the Intersection. It's the confluence of two busy two-lane roads that handle 20,000 cars a day, plus thousands of bicyclists and pedestrians. Several years ago, Monderman ripped out all the traditional instruments used by traffic engineers to influence driver behavior - traffic lights, road markings, and some pedestrian crossings - and in their place created a roundabout, or traffic circle. The circle is remarkable for what it doesn't contain: signs or signals telling drivers how fast to go, who has the right-of-way, or how to behave. There are no lane markers or curbs separating street and sidewalk, so it's unclear exactly where the car zone ends and the pedestrian zone begins. To an approaching driver, the intersection is utterly ambiguous - and that's the point.

Monderman and I stand in silence by the side of the road a few minutes, watching the stream of motorists, cyclists, and pedestrians make their way through the circle, a giant concrete mixing bowl of transport. Somehow it all works. The drivers slow to gauge the intentions of crossing bicyclists and walkers. Negotiations over right-of-way are made through fleeting eye contact. Remarkably, traffic moves smoothly around the circle with hardly a brake screeching, horn honking, or obscene gesture. "I love it!" Monderman says at last. "Pedestrians and cyclists used to avoid this place, but now, as you see, the cars look out for the cyclists, the cyclists look out for the pedestrians, and everyone looks out for each other. You can't expect traffic signs and street markings to encourage that sort of behavior. You have to build it into the design of the road."

Original article: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/12.12/traffic.html

[Auxodium]

road network is slow and not effective for who needs it most business and freight

[Perth4life]

freight could so much more easily be utilized by rail, for every one large train carrying 50 containers, thats 25 trucks off the road, less pollution, cheaper etc.

[chrisaus]

so you saying they should have a train line to every loading dock in perth? how else do they fill the shelves off every supermarket, life isnt so simple guys shit.

[izza]

The road network is fine and effective, apart from peak hour, which is always going to be slow. Go try and drive aroun any other city in australia and the world and you'll realise how good the road network in perth is.
And i spend almost every day at work driving between jobs across the city.

[scotdaliney]

Yeah maybe to australian standards, but if we're doing the euro comparison, I reckon the worst merging scenario in perth, on any of the major freeways or major highways, would be better than most of the similar situations in Belgium. I think we're just so used to being spoilt in Australia.

IN Europe the rule is that Traffic already on the motorway has right of way. Entering traffic must merge in. Australian Rules are that the Car In front has right of way. I'm sure that doesn't really help matters.
In fact if you know anything about traffic flow theory, the way Australians drive is the exact way to create traffic jams. To close to each other to allow easy lane changes, pulling into a lane in a way that slows those behind you down (creating shock wave traffic jams), the push in front merge.
In the UK the Motorway signs ask people to spead out if traffic starts to build up. The opposite of what happens here.

[scotdaliney]

The road network is fine and effective, apart from peak hour, which is always going to be slow. Go try and drive aroun any other city in australia and the world and you'll realise how good the road network in perth is.
And i spend almost every day at work driving between jobs across the city.

I have driven in Many other cities in the world. I can honestly say Perth is by far the most annoying. It may not be the slowest but the constant red lights (bad syncronisation), bad driving, bad junctions, It could so easily be so much better. Even Melbourne with it's much worse traffic didn't seem to bother me so much as it inevitable with so many people.

[Scrawny]

IN Europe the rule is that Traffic already on the motorway has right of way. Entering traffic must merge in. Australian Rules are that the Car In front has right of way. I'm sure that doesn't really help matters.
In fact if you know anything about traffic flow theory, the way Australians drive is the exact way to create traffic jams. To close to each other to allow easy lane changes, pulling into a lane in a way that slows those behind you down (creating shock wave traffic jams), the push in front merge.
In the UK the Motorway signs ask people to spead out if traffic starts to build up. The opposite of what happens here.

Yeah I was referring to the physical roads, length of merging lanes, distance between and exit of the freeway and the next stop sign, not the road rules. I like it much better here in terms of peoples behaviuor, it's much more aggressive and that makes the traffic flow better.

[Perth4life]

so you saying they should have a train line to every loading dock in perth? how else do they fill the shelves off every supermarket, life isnt so simple guys shit.

I do believe i said freight, which usually refers to containers, which usually go to and fro a place such as Kewdale, Midland etc. areas well served by rail but also that have massive truck bases as well.

of course there will always be a need for trucks, but container trucks can be significantly reduced with the use of rail!

[Scrawny]

I have driven in Many other cities in the world. I can honestly say Perth is by far the most annoying. It may not be the slowest but the constant red lights (bad syncronisation), bad diving, bad junctions. Even Melbourne with it's much worse traffic didn't seem to bother me so much as it enevitable with so many people.

I agree with that wholeheartedly, but it sooo shouldn't be the case if you look at the infrastructure. It's the driving culture I think.

[izza]

I have driven in Many other cities in the world. I can honestly say Perth is by far the most annoying. It may not be the slowest but the constant red lights (bad syncronisation), bad diving, bad junctions. Even Melbourne with it's much worse traffic didn't seem to bother me so much as it enevitable with so many people.

I didnt say anything about annoying, i said the NETWORK. you can get to and from plases easy, compaired to others.
I agree that perth has some of the most annoying drivers, and lights.

A good example of bad lights is the Hutton and Freeway intechainge. The lights don't syncornise well enough to allow people heading west and east and turning north and south on to the freeway enough time, which is the most used route, the lights are normally a black light, which causes back up all the way down hutton st. Ive waited 4 light changes to get thru the first light, than anoth 3 to get thru the second light onto the freeway, during the middle of the day, around 11am, last week.

[crazyknightsfan]

IN Europe the rule is that Traffic already on the motorway has right of way. Entering traffic must merge in. Australian Rules are that the Car In front has right of way.

Just to clarify...

When a lane ends - i.e. marked by the small, broken white line (this is how it is done in NSW, QLD, VIC etc.), traffic in the lane that is ending must give way to other traffic when merging. Example here on southbound carriageway:
http://maps.google.com.au/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=thornleigh,+nsw&ie=UTF8&t=h&ll=-33.717345,151.110816&spn=0.000828,0.00171&z=20

When two lanes become one without either lane ending per se - the line markings separating the lane just disappear, i.e. a zip merge (used everywhere in WA and ACT) - then the car in front has right of way.

[scotdaliney]

Yeah I was referring to the physical roads, length of merging lanes, distance between and exit of the freeway and the next stop sign, not the road rules. I like it much better here in terms of peoples behaviuor, it's much more aggressive and that makes the traffic flow better.

My god you must be joking. How often on the freeway are you stuck behing three cars in line all doing the same speed. In Europe that would never happen. People overtake and move straight back to the inside lane. Jump on you tube type in autobahn, watch for one minute and see the massive difference.
People In the UK were always so courtious, always let you in, always gave you room to move over, trucks would flash each other to let weach other know when they can move back over .Here people speed up to stop you getting were you need to.
The other day I was driving down the freeway, this truck was overtaking in the right lane, then did the right thing and moved back to the left. This twat (in a commodore of course) then sped up and sat next to him in the right lane so that when the truck came up to the next slow car in the left lane he was stuck, Perth people wouldn't even think about such things. In Europe this would have been seen as very rude

[Scrawny]

My god you must be joking. How often on the freeway are you stuck behing three cars in line all doing the same speed. In Europe that would never happen. People overtake and move straight back to the inside lane. Jump on you tube type in autobahn, watch for one minute and see the massive difference.
People In the UK were always so courtious, always let you in, always gave you room to move over, trucks would flash each other to let weach other know when they can move back over .Here people speed up to stop you getting were you need to.
The other day I was driving down the freeway, this truck was overtaking in the right lane, then did the right thing and moved back to the left. This twat (in a commodore of course) then sped up and sat next to him in the right lane so that when the truck came up to the next slow car in the left lane he was stuck, Perth people wouldn't even think about such things. In Europe this would have been seen as very rude


That's what I said. I live in Brussels. You know - the one in Europe. ;-)

[izza]

Agreed. There is a very "im driving therefore everyone must abide to what im doing" attitude in Perth. Not only is it inconsiderate but also dangerous.

[Dilaz89]

yes, people are very inconsiderate when driving in perth.

I often see trucks cruising in the right hand lane on the kwinana fwy, even though it is signed after each onramp that trucks must use left lanes.

No one knows the rules when it comes to the inside lane. No one at all.

[scotdaliney]

That's what I said. I live in Brussels. You know - the one in Europe. ;-)

Ah sorry, I thought you meant the other way around. :nuts:

[izza]

yes, people are very inconsiderate when driving in perth.

I often see trucks cruising in the right hand lane on the kwinana fwy, even though it is signed after each onramp that trucks must use left lanes.

No one knows the rules when it comes to the inside lane. No one at all.

i always thought it was keep left unless overtaking? correct me if im wrong.

[izza]

In many US states, at single light intersections, if you are turning right or into the traffic flow, you may processed if it is safe if the light is red. Treat it as a give way sign.
Although i would love to see this rule implemented in Perth, i dont think many drivers would be able to cope with it and it would serve more harm then good.
Just a wish of mine for perth roads

[scotdaliney]

i always thought it was keep left unless overtaking? correct me if im wrong.

Yes, spot on.
Inside lane = left lane.
Sorry I forget not many aussies are used to that terminology.

[chrisaus]

i always thought it was keep left unless overtaking? correct me if im wrong.

on all road posted 90 km/h and above vehicle must keep left unless overtaking, an emergency vehicle or in periods of heavy traffic.

[Dilaz89]

I never see it enforced. Don't really see many cops on the fwy though.

[WAuzzie]

i see heappps of cops on the freeway. undercover, copbikes, normal cops and highway patrols. all the time.
the left lane rule mind you is never enforced. to many other more imortant things to deal with. also its not in the learner manual.

[samboy]

Ask anyone in any city around the world and they'll tell you their traffic is shit and their drivers are the worst.
Perth isn't that bad. The general condition of the roads is also quite good especially since we don't pay a single toll.
No point in comparing it to Europe with much larger populations a lot less sprawl and plenty of tollways and even so the roads there aren't better than perth in all aspects.

[WAuzzie]

road conditions were the best in melbourne i must admit. perth lacks in this.
re drivers ... perth might be a lil stupid but the drivers r more patient then in sydney. and let u in, uhhhh and dont keep going knowing they'll end up parked on the intersection.

[scotdaliney]

Ask anyone in any city around the world and they'll tell you their traffic is shit and their drivers are the worst.
Perth isn't that bad. The general condition of the roads is also quite good especially since we don't pay a single toll.
No point in comparing it to Europe with much larger populations a lot less sprawl and plenty of tollways and even so the roads there aren't better than perth in all aspects.

Thats a cop out, the UK's motorway system extends all through the countryside including lots of very low population area's. And 99.9% toll free. Most of the junctions along the entire system are miles beyond ours. I lived in a small town of a few thousand, every junction was far superior to our best. All rounadbout flyovers, whirlpools, cloverleafs, trumpets, directional t's, the cheapest you would find would be a clover/double roundabout junction (similar to the one between rockingham and mandurah). No one is expecting these things out in the middle of nowhere but Perth and much of the south west should be.

[Scrawny]

Ask anyone in any city around the world and they'll tell you their traffic is shit and their drivers are the worst.
Perth isn't that bad. The general condition of the roads is also quite good especially since we don't pay a single toll.
No point in comparing it to Europe with much larger populations a lot less sprawl and plenty of tollways and even so the roads there aren't better than perth in all aspects.

No tollways in Belgium, plus the whole country is sprawl really if you look at it cause they're squeezing 10million people into a country the size of Perth to kalgoorlie with little towns everywhere. You're definitley right about the roads not being better, although they do have one really cool feature which I'll post about soon.

They have a stupid give way to the right rule here, which applies even if you are on a major road, and the car on your right is coming off a minor road. Very dangerous.

[Scrawny]

Couldn't find any pics, but basically a really common trick here in Brussels is at busy intersections, one direction tunnels under the other. I guess it's like an overpass, but it's a tunnel instead, if that makes sense and it's in really built up areas. You can kind of see what I mean here.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=brussels+&ie=UTF8&ll=50.838613,4.362087&spn=0.002341,0.004807&t=k&z=18

If you follow that road in either direction (it's a mini ring road around the city centre) it keeps tunneling under each intersection. It's a like a rollercoaster when you're driving on it, but a least you don't have to keep stopping.

I reckon this could work on Stirling Highway or Great eastern highway, but it would be expensive I guess.

[Auxodium]

freight could so much more easily be utilized by rail, for every one large train carrying 50 containers, thats 25 trucks off the road, less pollution, cheaper etc.

ah such a simple idea, i used to think like that but i think chrisaus answered it below! ;)

so you saying they should have a train line to every loading dock in perth? how else do they fill the shelves off every supermarket, life isnt so simple guys shit.

yeah if the people in the think tank seriously suggest this it will be as laughable as an emissions tax or some crap the fed alp is coming up with :lol: Road freight is being slowed down by inefficient Perth road network.

I do believe i said freight, which usually refers to containers, which usually go to and fro a place such as Kewdale, Midland etc. areas well served by rail but also that have massive truck bases as well.

of course there will always be a need for trucks, but container trucks can be significantly reduced with the use of rail!

ah freight just doesnt JUST GO to the places you mentioned... you forgot many places like Joondalup, Osborne Park, Balcatta, Wanagara, Spearwood and many other places i cant be farked listing. So you think that rail sidings should be built in every business in every industrial/commercial area? that would be nice to have but i think the major problem with many a perth think tank and the very new one Lisa supports/mentions is being ratherout of touch to suggest that you could move freight over onto rail or even dismiss that the road network doesnt need improving...

I never see it enforced. Don't really see many cops on the fwy though.

nah i never see police anywhere... nor do i see firemen or ambulances, or jiffy vans, or telstra vans or even trade vehicles...

[crazyknightsfan]

They have a stupid give way to the right rule here, which applies even if you are on a major road, and the car on your right is coming off a minor road. Very dangerous.

That used to be the rule in Australia - NSW didn't abolish it until about 1980 (not sure about WA). It certainly is ridiculous for traffic flow along major roads.

[samboy]

Thats a cop out, the UK's motorway system extends all through the countryside including lots of very low population area's. And 99.9% toll free. Most of the junctions along the entire system are miles beyond ours. I lived in a small town of a few thousand, every junction was far superior to our best. All rounadbout flyovers, whirlpools, cloverleafs, trumpets, directional t's, the cheapest you would find would be a clover/double roundabout junction (similar to the one between rockingham and mandurah). No one is expecting these things out in the middle of nowhere but Perth and much of the south west should be.

Just a question - If you had a choice between driving a truck in Perth and negotiating the Perth roads and traffic vs doing the same thing in the UK on a daily basis which one do you pick?

[Auxodium]

i think NZ's motorway system beats Perth's... oh dear...


it was a pleasure to drive on those roads in NZ

[chrisaus]

I bet you cant say the same about catching a train there though

[Dilaz89]

Auckland has a grand total of 2.5 commuter rail lines. If you are to catch a train there, chances are you'll be on an old DMU once used in Perth.

[Auxodium]

nah... trains were the shitty Perth ADL and ADH DMU's.... piles of shyte...

they were in the old Transperth livery although they started to upgrade them when i left NZ... they are making progress though which is good...

[scotdaliney]

Just a question - If you had a choice between driving a truck in Perth and negotiating the Perth roads and traffic vs doing the same thing in the UK on a daily basis which one do you pick?

UK hands down, much less stress. Sure you can get horror jams sometimes but usually it takes a hell of a lot more traffic to get that bad compared to here. The rest of a time it is almost enjoyable driving in the UK. Something I would never say here, even at quiet times.

[scotdaliney]

Auckland has a grand total of 2.5 commuter rail lines. If you are to catch a train there, chances are you'll be on an old DMU once used in Perth.

Wow, never new that.

[chrisaus]

the electorinic message boards on the freeway are now up. they are pretty big over hanging about 1 1/2 lanes

[perthgazer]

yeh they look sweet, all four on the mitchell (3 south, 1 north) are up with the kwinana ones going up tonight.

i expect it will be another six months before they get switched on, given the poles were in for a couple of months

[docker]

http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx?MenuID=2&ContentID=103918

Bunbury highway ahead of schedule
22nd October 2008, 7:30 WST

Construction of the biggest single road project undertaken in WA, the Perth to Bunbury highway project, has passed the halfway mark and is on track to be finished by the middle of next year.

Exclusive photographs of the multi-million-dollar project provided to The West Australian by project manager Southern Gateway Alliance show about 12.5km of the 70.5km dual carriageway has been built, with about 12 million tonnes of material moved since work began in December 2006.

About 10km of the highway base course between Peppermint Grove Road in Lake Clifton and the Harvey River Bridge has been laid since work on the southern section of the highway started in August, with 2.5km of base course laid in the northern section between Nambeelup Brook and Pinjarra Road.

The paving is being done by two state-of-the-art machines imported from Germany, which are the biggest in the world and can pave the full width of the 11.7m-wide carriageway in a single pass and at a rate of half a kilometre a day.

Project manager Joe Trio said work had now started on all 10 bridge sites, with the 272m Murray River twin bridges about 60 per cent complete and on track to be finished by next February.

Work on bridges at Harvey River, Nambeelup Brook, South Yunderup Road and Mayfield Drain has also begun, after completion of the Serpentine River bridge in April.

Mr Trio said about $400 million worth of work had been carried out and the project was about 57 per cent complete. It was scheduled to be finished ahead of the December 2009 completion date.

The cost of the project was revised in the May State Budget to $705 million from an initial $500 million, mainly caused by design changes.

Public art was being incorporated into each bridge, with a water theme achieved by casting embossed, random-shaped patterns in the reinforced concrete walls.

Work on five pedestrian and cyclist underpasses and noise walls in Stake Hill and South Yunderup was also taking shape.

The highway is expected to cut 30 minutes off the trip between Perth and Bunbury by bypassing heavily populated areas in Mandurah and the Dawesville peninsula.

BEATRICE THOMAS

[Homeroids]

Highway? I thought it was a Freeway, meaning Freeway standard and no intersections?

[Bullswool]

It's freeway to Pinjarra road and then highway to the start of the existing dual carriageway to Bunbury.

[DM8]

From MRWA, http://www.mainroads.wa.gov.au/BuildingRoads/Projects/UrbanProjects/Pages/mitchell.aspx

Mitchell Freeway Extension to Burns Beach Road

Updated October 2008

The Mitchell Freeway extension from Hodges Drive to Burns Beach Road in Perth’s northern suburbs will be opened to traffic by 5.00 pm on Sunday, November 2 2008.

An opening ceremony featuring a procession of classic cars will be performed by the Premier, Colin Barnett, commencing shortly after noon.

Members of the local community are welcome to view the procession from the footbridge opposite Connolly Primary school, from Moore Drive bridge or from side streets in Currambine and Connolly.

The cars will travel along the new section of freeway from the footbridge to Burns Beach road, then via Connolly Drive, Shenton Avenue and Fairway Circle on their way to the school.

[Auxodium]

yeh they look sweet, all four on the mitchell (3 south, 1 north) are up with the kwinana ones going up tonight.

i expect it will be another six months before they get switched on, given the poles were in for a couple of months

i assume they will be on when the freeway extension is opened

Highway? I thought it was a Freeway, meaning Freeway standard and no intersections?

well it is except the last section before it joins old coast road where it has intersections that are not separated

[Scrawny]

I'm yet to hear someone explain how it can take 30 mins off the trip from bunbury? Right now it takes almost exactly 2 hours. It's about 188km from centre of Bunbury to the narrows bridge and that includes the 100km/h section on the Freeway. Someone please enlighten me.

[nazor]

like the article says you dont have to go through Mandurah which takes like 30 mins since there is a lot of traffic and a lot of traffic lights.

this way it will be non stop around the back.

distance doesn't measure the time it takes to travel.

[Bump]

Currently if you take the freeway you will end up going through Mandurah. There are, i don't know, about 10 sets of lights to go through. This highway bypasses Mandurah and those lights.

Or read above

[Scrawny]

I've done that drive 100's of times over the years and I still don't see how the numbers add up. Getting through mandurah takes time for sure if you include dawesville all the way to north of mandurah.

The last 50km - from Baldivis to the narrows on the freeway - takes half an hour because of the 100km/h speed limit, so you've basically got to sit on 140km/h the rest of the way to make the other 138km in one hour??

[nazor]

on long weekends/holidays it can take over 45mins to get through Mandurah. its just an approximation/estimate of the average cut of time guys. it will save time it just depends on the context.

what did you want them to say lol?

[TRS-80]

I've heard the highway-grade section has been designed so they can easily upgrade it to grade-separated freeway-grade intersections. (grade grade grade grade grade)

[Scrawny]

Well to answer my own question, I reckon it's because they would have found it more difficcult to justify half a billion dollars to cut 20mins off a 2 hour trip. Half an hour sounds so much better, but like I say, in reality, I don't think it will be that much. 30 minutes is like a Hollowmen (the tv show) number.

[Scrawny]

Btw, what will the speed limit be on the highway?

If it's 120km/h, will it then change down to 100km/h once you reach the kwinana freeway? Now that would be bizarre!!

[nazor]

will they never ever said it would cut off 30mins they said its 'expected' to cut off 30mins.

highways are always 110km/h.

[Scrawny]

What's the difference?

[crazyknightsfan]

10km/h?

[Scrawny]

Haha.

Nah the 30 min reduction is bullshit. It's been quoted ever since the project started and I've never beleived it.

[izza]

Well to answer my own question, I reckon it's because they would have found it more difficcult to justify half a billion dollars to cut 20mins off a 2 hour trip. Half an hour sounds so much better, but like I say, in reality, I don't think it will be that much. 30 minutes is like a Hollowmen (the tv show) number.

Also the section of road south of dawsville, where it becomes one lane, is a known black spot. Numerous accedents over the years. And with Mandurah ever growing in size and population, this road will take all of the thru traffic away from the city.
ALSO people communting in and out of Mandruah will have a more direct route to Perth city, out to pinjarrah road then onto the freeway.
-The road is designed for 110kmhr
-there will be interchainges north of pinjarrah road, ie freeway, and intersections south, ie highway

If it's 120km/h, will it then change down to 100km/h once you reach the kwinana freeway? Now that would be bizarre!!
WAs maximum speed limit is 110kmhr. Even on open roads, the ones posted with the black circle with a cross thru it you are only allowed to travel at a maximum 110

[Scrawny]

does that mean, because it's freeway north of pinjarra road, that the speed limit will be 100km/h from pinjarra road to Perth?

[izza]

does that mean, because it's freeway north of pinjarra road, that the speed limit will be 100km/h from pinjarra road to Perth?

Im not sure. the whole project is DESIGNED for 110kmhr. I presume it will be upto main roads to determine the speed once construction is complete.

[Scrawny]

If it is 100km/h that means 52 minutes to travel 88km from Mandurah to Perth, and 1 hour from Bunbury to Mandurah.

1 hour 52 mins in total. THat's a saving of 8 minutes folks!!

BTW I'm not criticizing them builiding the road. It will come in very handy for me visiting the olds in the future. Just statements like the one in the article above.

"The highway is expected to cut 30 minutes off the trip between Perth and Bunbury by bypassing heavily populated areas in Mandurah and the Dawesville peninsula."

[izza]

But going the old way you have to travel thru, as bumps says, 10 sets of lights, one lane roads, reduced speed limits thru the city, shopping precidents, homes etc etc.
The new road just wont save time but also convience and will be a much smoother, SAFER road.
And it will cut 30+mins off during peak times like public holidays.

And i know every person on here is against sprawl, but when complete you will be able to drive from Brighton to Bunbury one one road, micheal-kwinana-new highway-oldcoast road-austalind bypass and no traffic lights. Thats pretty impressive

[Scrawny]

You're right, that is pretty cool. Oh and like I say, I've done that drive many many times over the years so I know all about the lights in Mandurah. There's no doubt it will save half an hour or more on long weekends.

Funny thing is, back in the 80's when they first finished the mandurah bypass, (before this you had to actually drive through the centre of mandurah over the old bridge, not past the forum. Showing my age. :)), there was hardly any lights at at all. Just one set at the forum, and one at Halls Head. The bypass actually worked really well when it first opened with the new bridge and you only had a relatively short section of 80km/h. Then gradually, one by one, traffic lights started sprouting like mushrooms, especially north of mandurah, and the speed limit was reduced all the way from Dawesville. I tried the south west highway a few times, but it's narrow, windy and dark at nighttime with shitloads of roos. Hopefully they have learnt some lessons this time and won't allow any traffic lights at all to magically appear in a few years time.

[izza]

Yeah i dont think this one will be built out as such. I think it will be a freeway for good.

But it is funny, they build a bypass to bypass the bypass.

[Auxodium]

:lol: all for the sake of making holiday makers happy ;)

[numbat]

No tollways in Belgium, plus the whole country is sprawl really if you look at it cause they're squeezing 10million people into a country the size of Perth to kalgoorlie with little towns everywhere. You're definitley right about the roads not being better, although they do have one really cool feature which I'll post about soon.

They have a stupid give way to the right rule here, which applies even if you are on a major road, and the car on your right is coming off a minor road. Very dangerous.

uhm, Belgium is 700km across?....... (my emphasis)

[city_thing]

^^ that's what I was thinking; Belgium isn't even the size of the South-West corner of WA :P

And Aux, those holidays makers vote, therefore the road is essential!!11!!1

[crazyknightsfan]

Not sure if this has been posted before...

http://wanneroo.inmycommunity.com.au/news-and-views/local-news/Marmion-Avenue-extension-delayed/7509671/

Marmion Avenue extension delayed

23/Sep/2008

THE gas crisis has delayed by a few weeks the opening of the Marmion Avenue extension, which will now open on November 1.

The crisis, caused by the explosion on Varanus Island on June 3, affected the supply of asphalt.

The laying of asphalt has now started at the Yanchep end.

Capricorn Village joint venture chief executive Russel Perry said it would take a few weeks to finish and then road markings and signs needed to be erected.

He said both ends of the extension were blocked off and people should stay away because it was unsafe. "We have barricaded each end of the road and this seems to have kept people out of the area," Dr Perry said.

"We ask that people continue to do the right thing and wait until November 1 when they are welcome to drive the road to their hearts' content."

"We encourage people to take the drive on Saturday, November 1, bring the family and visit the new playground, parks and other developments at Capricorn."

The 12km extension cost Capricorn $15 million and runs from Benenden Avenue in Butler to Lagoon Drive in Yanchep.

It expects to recover costs over time from the seven other landholders along the route.

[Scraperfan]

They are also offering a $50 000 discount on the land there which is from $200 000 for the first 20 buyers on November 1st.

Considering the distance fromt he beach, $150 000 is an amazing price, given that the entire area will become a city over the next 20 years forcing land prices up.

Very good investment opportunity.

www.capricornproject.com.au

[Perth4life]

i wouldnt live up there if the house came fully paid for.

[Auxodium]

^^ that's what I was thinking; Belgium isn't even the size of the South-West corner of WA :P

And Aux, those holidays makers vote, therefore the road is essential!!11!!1

true and when i holiday down there i bet i will be praising the road's construction city_thing :lol:

just being a bit narky

[docker]

i have to say, before the intersections are upgraded the entire length of reid hwy should be made duel carrage way. the section to the east and west will be, but thesction in the middle is only single carraige way with one lane. Do this first.

[izza]

i have to say, before the intersections are upgraded the entire length of reid hwy should be made duel carrage way. the section to the east and west will be, but thesction in the middle is only single carraige way with one lane. Do this first.

Between Erindale road and the freeway you mean?

I agree, it should have been done when they extended reid down to marmion ave back in '01 (i think). It would require a new bridge across the freeway tho adding to the price tag.

[docker]

Between Erindale road and the freeway you mean?

I agree, it should have been done when they extended reid down to marmion ave back in '01 (i think). It would require a new bridge across the freeway tho adding to the price tag.

not really, but that is another section which needs to be upgraded aswell.

between erindale road and beechboro road, Reid Hwy is dual lane but east of Beechboro road until Great Northern Hwy, where Reid Hwy tunrs into Roe Hwy anyway is single lane in each direction. this is a very dangerous section of road in which people i know were in a serious car accident with some killed and others seriously mentally injured.

fortunatly the section between West Swan Road and Roe Hwy will be upgraded to dual lane, with construction starting really soon, but the section between Beechboro Road and West Swan Road is still only single lanes with 'soft shoulders' with cars doing about 90km/h, now if it was done properly, less accidents would occur and people could drive faster.

once this occurs, then the intersections which Aux is always going on about should be upgraded. but make it all duel lane first.

[izza]

Ah yes that section is more of a priority. It would make sense to do that hole section at the same time. I suppose that it will happen very soon after they finish the west swan to roe section. BTW does anyone know who is contracted to do the works?

[perthgazer]

McMahon got it, same guys doing Mitchell Fwy Extension

[izza]

cheers

[Auxodium]

OBVIOUSLY Reid Highway would be dual carriageway which should be done first in regards to upgrades, however in areas where it already is, it is time to remove the traffic lights, it is just plain old frustrating having to jostle your way through and intersection time and time again with trucks...

As for Reid highway between Marmion and Mitchell Freeway, there should be a reduction in the side streets, keep Oakley, and duffy but remove all the others. N Beach road is still rather busy and the removal of its access to Reid Highway in the west doesnt help the whole point of building the highway to remove traffic off N Beach road

[crazyknightsfan]

lol you need to come up with a better argument than "plain old frustrating" for removing traffic signals, Aux.

[Auxodium]

how about 5 light changes plus waiting at the intersection? good enough? now times that by 5 intersections which should be freeway standard and you get how im frustrated

[crazyknightsfan]

Which intersection and at what time of day?

Of course you have congestion in peak periods - my commute to work is worse than that but I can't see it as justification for turning Lane Cove Road into a freeway.

[Auxodium]

every one from erindale to Beechboro are terrible averaging at 3-5 light changes during the day... happens any time between morning peak and arfternoon peak (5pm onwards)

there is just a large volume of traffic it is just annoying

[crazyknightsfan]

I'll have to bow to your local knowledge then Aux. :)

[scotdaliney]

lol you need to come up with a better argument than "plain old frustrating" for removing traffic signals, Aux.

Why?

[hack404]

Building commuter rail would help.

[scotdaliney]

Building commuter rail would help.

Probably only help slow down how quickly it will get even worse.

[hack404]

Probably only help slow down how quickly it will get even worse.
True, though expanding road capacity while not providing alternatives (ie rail and road-based PT options) won't help.

[crazyknightsfan]

Probably only help slow down how quickly it will get even worse.

You could say the same about expanding road capacity ;)

[izza]

every one from erindale to Beechboro are terrible averaging at 3-5 light changes during the day... happens any time between morning peak and arfternoon peak (5pm onwards)

there is just a large volume of traffic it is just annoying

3 to 5 during the day? I think someone is exaggerating a bit too much. Try 2-4 during peak times and 1 to none during non peak.

The only reason the government are upgrading alexander is cause of its black spot history, not the amount of traffic.

[izza]

As for Reid highway between Marmion and Mitchell Freeway, there should be a reduction in the side streets, keep Oakley, and duffy but remove all the others. N Beach road is still rather busy and the removal of its access to Reid Highway in the west doesnt help the whole point of building the highway to remove traffic off N Beach road

Why? Its a single lane road that has minimal traffic volumes. Everingham street servcies the school very efficently. That leaves North beach which services Karrinyup. North Beach has had a dramatic reduction in traffic since the highway was opened, I think Reid, Marmion