Krystallklar (Crystal Clear)

Danish C. F. Møller Architects (http://www.cfmoller.com/), in collaboration with Norwegian Kristin Jarmund Architects (http://www.kjark.no/), has won a major competition to design a spectacular
new landmark project in the city of Oslo, for the client KLP AS, one of Norway's largest property investors. The project, which has been dubbed
"Krystallklar" in Norwegian, meaning "Crystal Clear", consists of three towers, which grow organically from the ground to form a sculptural cluster,
and are composed of stacked, prismatic volumes.

The development totals approximately 90,000 sq m of offices, commercial space and possibly housing, located at one of Oslo's most valuable sites,
the former postal sorting office adjacent to the central station. 'Crystal Clear' ties in with the city's skyline, and the string of developing landmark
projects that will help turn Oslo into one of Europe's most modern capitals.

Partner and architect at C.F. Møller, Mads Mandrup Hansen states: "Crystal Clear is a unique proposal for a modern, Nordic cluster of towers - a
Norwegian urban rock, that in an exciting way adds to the city's strategic endeavour to interlace town and port into a contemporary and lively
waterfront, and at the same time fulfils the client KLP Eiendom's vision to build the most groundbreaking high-rise offices in Scandinavia.

"We are proud that Crystal Clear once again gives us the chance to contribute a significant new project to the city of Oslo, strengthening our
position in Norway, and demonstrating the broad spectre of skills our office possesses."

ATKINS and Norwegian Erichsen og Horgen AS are appointed as engineers on Crystal Clear, which is expected to be completed within 3-5 years.

Inspiration, a crystal.
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1235/crystalclear15small.jpg

Sketch of their proposal.
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/3725/crystalclear14small.jpg

Final renderings.
http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/645/crystalclear17small1000.jpg

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/7774/crystalclear19x1000.jpg

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/3308/crystalclear20x1000.jpg

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/665/crystalclear21x1000.jpg

http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/6853/crystalclear12small.jpg

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/4056/crystalclear4small1000.jpg

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/9503/crystalclear7regulering.jpg

Edited and updated by Þróndeimr

EDIT:

Just a few more renderings and illustrations!

deleted

Awesome project. The Manhattan of the Nordics!

Þróndeimr: I know its not Oslo S, but couldt find any name of the building and since its beside of Oslo S i just wrote that... 127? ok, I change it :)

^^ There is no name for it yet, not a nickname either. You can always check out what Emporis is calling it if you are unsure, since they have the most reliable information.

So, title to this thread should look like this:

OSLO | Biskop Gunnerus Gate 14b | 127m | 36fl | Pro

The initial reactions were actually mostly positive towards this one. I'd give it a 35% chance of making it in one form or another (that is very good for this town).

Untill someone photoshops it into their fjordview and tells them how it will destroy the whole city... :P To bad the name Oslo tower is taken... ;P Doesn't fit that project..

http://ne.no/image/416x416/ne_4846a2bc05fc6.JPG
http://ne.no/image/416x416/ne_4846a2c9ca120.JPG
http://ne.no/image/416x416/ne_4846a2ace00ae.JPG
http://www.dagsavisen.no/multimedia/archive/00034/36a1-05_34713o.jpg

The tower looks good. Hopefullt they won`t run into many problems constructing this.

I can asure you that this is NOT the same project. This was a scetch-project MAD made some years ago, MAD tower. It is located on the opposite side both Rv4 and Gunneriusgate.

I really like that one, like mad! Nice!

I can asure you that this is NOT the same project. This was a scetch-project MAD made some years ago, MAD tower. It is located on the opposite side both Rv4 and Gunneriusgate.

Yep, thats just a old vision from the company them selves, never made it to the public exept on ssc of course!

Anyway, would be great if that one got built too, would made a brilliant clauster of highrise buildings if 14b goes up! ;)

MAD really likes skyscrapers=) We need more of that thinking! It would really make Oslo skyline something else than other cities. 4 tall buildings smacked into one tiny area, that would be really weird in a good way, and the good people at Grefsenkollen wouldn't loose more of their view than they already have lost;D

I don`t like that old MAD tower. What Oslo needs are thin highrises, not big walls like Postgiro and Plaza (Though I like Plaza, but we don`t need more with same shape) The KLP proposal is much better.

Oslo - the only city in Scandinavia with a (future) skyline? :?

Another illustration

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y136/cityw/Architecture/CrystalClear11small.jpg

I can asure you that this is NOT the same project. This was a scetch-project MAD made some years ago, MAD tower. It is located on the opposite side both Rv4 and Gunneriusgate.
Oh,okay. I got a little overexcited there.:(

http://ne.no/image/416x416/ne_4846a2ace00ae.JPG

Perfekt beliggenhet, og veldig interessant design/konsept... Håper VIRKELIG dette er et prosjekt som kommer til å se dagens lys :cheers:

Oslo might get a very good looking skyline on this spot! I think that they sooner or later should build something high there. The design looks good and all the other proposals posted here looks even better. However personally I prefer buildings and city planning made for pedestrians. I prefer lively streets with a lot of service for pedestrians along the pavements. Car cities like the area in the renderings tend to be a bit soulless according to me. But that is only my opinion. And Norway is after all an oil country so cars are of course an important part of the society and I respect that...

I don`t like that old MAD tower. What Oslo needs are thin highrises, not big walls like Postgiro and Plaza (Though I like Plaza, but we don`t need more with same shape) The KLP proposal is much better.

I think the MAD Tower was supposed to complement Plaza, and therefore its shape was probably quite consciously chosen with this in mind. Also, you'll notice how its facing west, so that people looking from the north will only see a thin silhouette.
I think it would be great if either of these towers were built, but Im rather doubtful. Even if they were approved, they would have to go trough long delays as politicians figure out how to respond to protest groups. Not to say it cant get built, but it will be a fight for it, and it will take some time. After all, Plaza did suceed at one poing in getting built.
I actually liked the older proposal better although the new one comes with the bonus of making street level more attractive, and the bus terminal proposal was sweet, although probably difficult to make happen in paractice.
Anyway, I should expect slow progress on this one Im afraid.

The area around Schweiigaardsgate/Biskop Gunnerus Gate is the most failed urban landscape in central Oslo. This proposal would do a lot in order to change that.

However personally I prefer buildings and city planning made for pedestrians. I prefer lively streets with a lot of service for pedestrians along the pavements. Car cities like the area in the renderings tend to be a bit soulless according to me. But that is only my opinion. And Norway is after all an oil country so cars are of course an important part of the society and I respect that...

You are absolutely right, car cities are soulless. But this still looks pretty good. For Stockholm I think we need one really high building in the city not the suburbs to break the evil circle of hight fear!

I actually liked the older proposal better although the new one comes with the bonus of making street level more attractive, and the bus terminal proposal was sweet, although probably difficult to make happen in paractice.
Anyway, I should expect slow progress on this one Im afraid.

I guess we will see better renderings later on, will wait to then to say what i think about the proposal.

Have not heard much on the NIMBY front towards this highrise yet, but if this one gets approved i am sure there will be a riot against it. Then they reject the building and that extremly terribly looking area will stay as it is today for another decade till we get some new proposals which will be rejected after massive NIMBY opposition! Am i not positive...

What about MAD tower is car-friendly? Doesn't look like it would get any parking at all=) I can't imagine the proposed tower will have a lot of parking either...

What about MAD tower is car-friendly? Doesn't look like it would get any parking at all=) I can't imagine the proposed tower will have a lot of parking either...

They stated that the area is car-friendly, not the building.

There is no reason to hope for MAD Tower, as there is noone to develop or finance it. We should focus all our mental powers on the project known as the title of this thread. We will see if they can get a willing city council on theire side.
A bus terminal over the tracks can be possible, according to the people I and kjetilab spoke to on Open day in Bjørvika, but since train-traffic through the Oslo-tunnel has to be running while constructing, it will probably be over the tracks that ends in Oslo S (tracks 14-19, iirc).

I love this proposal, really nice building!

http://alpha.apcom.no/mad/img/projects/76_280_large_tower1.jpg

Nice.. that's one funky shaped building. in a good way. thumbs up :)

But that is not the proposal. See the first post.

But that is not the proposal. See the first post.
Yeah I know but it's just that this one caught my eye. The real proposal is nice too the tower is D shaped which is neat and the arc it forms then connecting to the lower part of the building is a good decision. But it's not too special though.

These are taken from the Norsk Ståldag that IceCheese linked to in the Oslo development thread.


http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u315/erreflot/KLP2.jpg



And this is the roofgarden on the 13th floor. Nice view!

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u315/erreflot/KLP.jpg

This is not Oslo S. ;)

Its not 130m either, its 127m tall. Some say 130m, because the top is 130m above sea level. :)

Its also in a very early stage of development with poor renderings avaliable (mostly just model images). The architect company (MAD) still put this one under "Skisseprosjekt", a sketch-project. So don't put too much faith in this one yet, even though its a real proposal.

just beside;-)

Nice.. that's one funky shaped building. in a good way. thumbs up :)

i see. i want more highrises or skyscrapers in gunnerus!!!:banana:

They should build a twin tower to the Gunerius building a little higher than the previous one, then connect the shopping malls Gunerius-Oslo City and byporten with indoor bridges - that would help

This is not news, as in this document is from last fall, but I found it interesting to read when I stumbled upon it. It gives us some leads on what we can expect to be realized in this project.

The initial comments of the director of Bydel Gamle Oslo. (http://www.bydel-gamle-oslo.oslo.kommune.no/getfile.php/bydel%20gamle%20oslo%20(BGO)/Internett%20(BGO)/Dokumenter/BU-møter/2.%20halvdel/Oktober/refsak%2016102008%20Biskop%20Gunnerus%20gate%2014B.pdf)

There still hasn't been any real processing of the plans.

He's probably right, there is no way this will get approved before a real solution for the bus terminal has been made! So that's what they have to work on, rather than the height... ;D

And what was wrong with the proposal to place the new bus terminal directly above the railway station? The sooner we can cover those hideous tracks with something - anything - the sooner we'll fly safely in and out of Gardemoen (vomiting pilots are not alert pilots). Apart from that its current location is prime real estate and the area is in desperate need of redevelopment - everyone wins.

Except the NIMBYs. And that's the best of all! :cheers:

I remember seen a proposal for that... Cant find it now, someone who can post it?

And what was wrong with the proposal to place the new bus terminal directly above the railway station? The sooner we can cover those hideous tracks with something - anything - the sooner we'll fly safely in and out of Gardemoen (vomiting pilots are not alert pilots). Apart from that its current location is prime real estate and the area is in desperate need of redevelopment - everyone wins.

Except the NIMBYs. And that's the best of all! :cheers:

There is nothing wrong with it, it is just that the initial proposer was KLP Eiendom, which has nothing to say about that property. If there should be a bus terminal above the tracks, Jernbaneverket (which owns the property), NSB (which use it), Ruter (who would be funding and using the project) and the city of Oslo has to take the initiative to do it. And I have strong doubts for us seeing anything "soon". To be honest, the idea of duration of such a thing scares me.

I am not either that convinced that this above rail bus stop would be such a beauty to the eye..

@mjoks007, I'm not quite sure what you mean..

It will look like shit - except if they get a hold of Mr Calatrava and he puts a giant intricate steel structure spanning over the whole thing:D

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3158/2883440682_a8edd52498_o.jpg

But it can hardly look any worse than how it is now.... I'm wondering about this that Spacegroup has put over the tracks in Oslo S proposal, are they planning to put a roof over the station?
http://www.tu.no/multimedia/archive/00082/01_Oversiktsbilde080_82619e.jpg

@mjoks007, I'm not quite sure what you mean..
I remeber seen a picture of the proposal with the busstation over the tracks somewhere, maybe in the oslo thread somewhere long time ago....

Edit: Forget it, the picture is in the first post :lol:

^^I kinda assumed you had checked this thread already. It's even your post:nuts:

@The engineer, Spacegroup just put something over the tracks to give an example and a invitation to do something about the area if the station itself is to be renewed as planed. They couldn't even answer to if it's glass or what. A similar component in the model as the trees, really:lol: Again there is a difference between who own's what again, as NSB owns the station Oslo S, and wants to redevelop it, while Jernbaneverket owns the track-area, if I'm not wrong. But I would love to see a design roof above the track area (and the bus terminal), though your example seems a bit over the top for this project.

^^I know, I thought I did :s brodmeir changed the post for me so its not really my first post...

I dont like the proposal with the busstation over the tracks.. Think it takes to much space they can delvelop to apartments and stuff instead...

So where do you want to put a bus-station?;D

It can be over the tracks, but dont use so much space as the picture show, more like this:
http://bildr.no/thumb/329280.jpeg (http://bildr.no/view/329280)

As IceCheese have mentioned a few times, a realistic placement of a bus terminal would be above the southernmost tracks. The interuption of rail traffic during construction makes is practically impossible to built it any other place. That's what I and IceCheese was told during the last "Åpen dag i Bjørvika".

About like this:
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n125/kjetilbalog/SCC/bussterminal.jpg

^^ I can't see that being enough space for the bus terminal; surely the idea must be to make it bigger and better, not just move it. And yes, it will be expensive to build above those tracks, but sooner or later we will have to do it anyway. And I think a government backed public project will be the most realistic way of doing it.

I wonder, though, since the proposed 127m'er is shown with this bus terminal proposal at its side, what exactly is the connection? Is this just a good idea made as an afterthought? Or is it needed, somehow, to make the project work at all?

It is because the capacity of current terminal is basicly breached, so there originally was proposed to use the two lower floors of this plot for an expansion of the terminal, which efficiently would destroy KLPE's plans as presented in this thread..

In that case, I would like to downgrade my 35% completion estimate. I think that might be used as a rationale for some serious NIMBYism on this tower. It might set a precedent NOT based on a fanatically religious opposition towards anything above five stories, you know.

Not good. Not good at all. Are you aware of any other plots that have been considered for a new bus terminal?

A relevant story: http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/ostlandssendingen/1.1941182

I haven't heard of any other suggestions, no. The are around Jernbanetorget isn't the easist place to find such room, no... I truly wish the track-area of Oslo s could be dug up, so we could start from scratch. My best suggestion is to tear down BOTH galleri Oslo and the gunnerus 14 property, and make a busterminal at the same level as Jernbanetorget T, but that woul make problems with the subway again... No easy solutions in this case!

Underground would be the best, i read somewhere a few days ago, SINTEF wanted to make an underground kommuneplan for cities in Norway, to place malls and warehouses, parking and such primarily underground... And why not a bus-terminal to, with a direct tunnel from the Ekebergtunnel-ramps perhaps:D Klp-building can work as a chimney for the underground terminal;D

An undergound bus terminal is a great idea. Bus terminals really take a lot of space away from the street level without really giving anything back. And hey, if train stations can be underground, why not bus stations?

An undergound bus terminal is a great idea. Bus terminals really take a lot of space away from the street level without really giving anything back. And hey, if train stations can be underground, why not bus stations?
Because trains are electric. Buses are not, they need the air to circulate. It's not impossible ofc, just not quite as easy - you really need more air intakes than a similar sized underground parking lot, and even they can be quite unpleasant at times.

But as long as they can keep the tower, I'm all for it.

The busdrivers in Ruter are so obsessed with letting the bus run with the engine on all the time, so it would never work!:nuts:

Because trains are electric. Buses are not, they need the air to circulate. It's not impossible ofc, just not quite as easy - you really need more air intakes than a similar sized underground parking lot, and even they can be quite unpleasant at times.

But as long as they can keep the tower, I'm all for it.

As long as you seal the actual station from the boarding areas, which again would have to be sealed from the tunnel leading down to the station, I don't see why it would be a problem as long as there are plenty of vents.

Still, more costly of course than building it above ground. Does anyone know if there even are any underground bus stations out there in the world? I've never heard of any.

There is one in the Kampen/Kamppi in Helsinki.

http://www.photoeurasia.com/catalog.php?id=17512

I'm sure there are many, i know the one in New York is partly underground...

Espoo:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1068/982831241_1beabda9b7.jpg

Seattle:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2158/2058413475_39b6154946.jpg

Here is a link to the report made by Rambøll on the subject of solutions for a new terminal:
http://web102881.pbe.oslo.kommune.no/saksinnsyn/showfile.asp?fileid=1791876

Alternatives:
Under Jernbanetorget
Under DEG(Expensive, but loving it, yes,yes,yes.)
On top of the tracks. (Expensive, but great use of space.)
Far away from Oslo S. (Simply ridiculous for passengers)
Posten building. (Cheap and good location, downside = No skyscraper.)

Why didn't MAD just put the Scraper on top of the terminal? This is what must happend! Anything else is dreaming)

- Klp financing a piece of a new terminal it in exchange of getting their scraper, and simular means of financing. (Loving that idea, would give us tall buildings as well as decent public infrastructure instead of the common cheap solutions.)

I know all of you hate Galleri Oslo and Schweigaardsgate, so what if they keept the arrangement as it is now, and built some sort of roof/pedestrian crossing on top of it with elevators down to the different parts of the "new" terminal in Galleri Oslo, in Schweigaardsgate and in BG 14. - the bridges being built now over Oslo S could be extended over it? Wouldn't this be more easy?

Anyway, the area around Oslo S, will be subject to a large områdeplan by the city, and everything freezes untill it is done:
http://web102881.pbe.oslo.kommune.no/saksinnsyn/showfile.asp?fileid=1979785

They should do something about the Jernbanetorget subway station at the same time... The capacity on the escalators and platforms is way breached too. What they should do is making two larger platforms with tracks on both sides. One for east-bound and one for west-bound. That would increase capacity for both trains as well as passengers.

A new area plan for Oslo S is really good news!


Here is a link to the report made by Rambøll on the subject of solutions for a new terminal:
Alternatives:
Under Jernbanetorget

Please don't dig up Jernbanetorget again!!!

Well, if it is indeed an option to place the terminal underneath the new high rise, I think that's perhaps the way to go. Like Ingenioren said, get the new owners to finance part of the new station in exchange for disregarding any height limits. Superb.

Problems:
1) NIMBYism

2) Making an underground bus station in such manner as to not come into conflict with existing/future subway infrastructure

3) It's already quite expensive to build high rises in Oslo because of the loose soil. Getting too greedy on how much we can get from KLP on the bus station might kill the project.

4) Financial crisis - construction start in 2011 means it won't have to cope, but executives tend to believe all of the future is like the here-and-now.

I really love the design and the height, and even the location is perfect! In my mind this would be the perfect addition to the Oslo skyline. A lot of nice projects in the pipe now, Oslo is going to look gorgeous in a few years.

Hey, does this project have its own thread in the proposed high rises section?

^^ You mean in the World Development News Forums? Yes it is. Made by Þróndeimr yesterday. http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=800354

Well, OK, my suggestion was really to merge the two if possible. It seems a bit wasteful to have one thread fade into oblivion in the high rises forum when the only people who care about this are us. That way, anyone who DO find it to their liking to look into it will have all the information they need with no need for double positing.

Saves server space too.

Is THAT possible?

Only through links, I would guess. Not that many move around here, do they.

lol yes i posted some threads! Our building is nothing of height, so they won't be that popular out there, but at least some people will notice them. Posted links back to the local threads here as well so those who is particularly interested can find more updates and information. :)

Untill they start construction, i guess no one really cares.... But if Stavanger(3x 100+) or Oslo(3x 100+) manages to get clusters i'm guessing it will be interesting for others to follow, at least for western europe.... ;D

Has there been any news here? No it hasn't. But the government has stated in their Transportation plan for 2010-19 that they will help funding a new bus terminal solution in Oslo. That has to be good news for this project, right? (plus this is where we have all the discussion around Oslo Bus terminal)

Yeah, that's what i tought! Only 200 million isn't that much it may be the kick in the ass Oslo needs;D

Most of the funds for a new bus terminal will probably come from Oslopakke 3...

Regarding Oslopakke 3, looks like somehow we will have to cut half the projects or double the toll! I'm hoping and believing they will double it or figure out somekind of rush-hour whip-fee... ;)

Or the government could spit in something... Ok, that sounded really stupid. Comment redrawn.:nuts:



Good we can use her for something:
http://www.bygg.no/cache/image/9709/53/navarsete-vestfoldbanen-bredde.jpg

I came across this article from March 13, seems like the politicians are onboard:

http://www.dagsavisen.no/innenriks/article403966.ece

Og i framtida kan buss- og togstasjonen i Oslo komme enda nærmere hverandre. I dag legger regjeringen fram sitt forslag til Nasjonal Transportplan (NTP). Der vil Oslo blant annet bli tilgodesett med 200 millioner øremerket ny bussterminal. Oslopolitikerne og KLP Eiendom ønsker seg den nye bussterminalen som et lokk over togsporene på Oslo S. KLP eier både Oslo S og Postens Brevsenter, og vil gjerne bygge ut.

They mention the bus terminal and not specifically the skyscraper, but it seems like they're supportive of the project.

Yes, in the last weeks there has been talks of a new grand bus-terminal over the tracks, as the most current alternative;) Great for the city, and great for Klp!

Does a new busstation really need to take so damn much space? If they made it wither and not that long as it is in render it would be much more space they could have build on in the future...

Don't worry about the render, it's not anything near in location and shape;D

This is more likely the area wich will be used:

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll218/Ingenioren/ssc-tegninger/Oslobusterminal.jpg

Are you sure? Not that I dont believe you, but how do you know that the render is "wrong" :dunno:

I`m all for moving the terminal to this location, BUT I`m not happy that there are no highrises in the project covering the tracks.

^^ They're still planning to build the skyscraper, as far as I know. Or did you want them to build more on top of the tracks?

^^ They're still planning to build the skyscraper, as far as I know. Or did you want them to build more on top of the tracks?

More on top of the tracks! They can do it if they want to.

A few scrapers would be good indeed to make a real cluster, but not if that means barcode height.

A few scrapers would be good indeed to make a real cluster, but not if that means barcode height.

Barcode hight is better than nothing. The way I see it the hole track area could tolerate about 15 highrises, with 2-3 between 100-130 m, and the rest at Barcode hight. I also think there is room for a 160m scraper at the Bussterminal plot closest to Plaza + 2-3 highrises close to Vaterlandsparken. This will complete the area as a highrise district with about 40 highrises.

In Stockholm they are building over the rail-tracks all through downtown. I wonder why it's so much easier there...

http://www.yimby.se/Publishing/FileStore/b5847089-91d8-4eb8-be47-0618abc9fdc2.jpg
http://www.yimby.se/Publishing/FileStore/4d50612c-d92b-49a7-99f9-f871332232c0.jpg

Today:
http://www.gosatta.org/temp/090404/IMG_0524.JPG

^^Yes, but they are not building tall enough.

I`m pretty sure we wil build over the tracks some day, the busterminal is just the beginning. That is also why I think we should do it properly when we build the terminal. We have started on a highrise district in this part of Oslo, and the way I see the terminal it is a step back in this development.

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u315/erreflot/Bilde103.jpg

^^Better devlopment policy
----------------------
Muster: 3-4 scrapers close to plaza and postgiro would be good. But the eastern track area would be best with low (8-10 floors) apartment buildings with first floor shops. Highrises means mainly offices, the area need more apartments.

^^Better devlopment policy
----------------------
Muster: 3-4 scrapers close to plaza and postgiro would be good. But the eastern track area would be best with low (8-10 floors) apartment buildings with first floor shops. Highrises means mainly offices, the area need more apartments.

People could live in highrise build on the tracks, doesnt have to be offices. I would gladly live there, with a view to the fjord, lokking down at Barcode..:cheers:

Highrises means mainly offices, the area need more apartments.

Heighrises means only what you put in them. There's nothing wrong with having tall appartment buildings in the area (think Turning torso/the eastern Barcodes).

Maybe so, but I would rather have lower apartmentbuildings and scrapers near over the west part of the tracks (like I said 3 times now :s).

There will be exciting to see whats happens in the future. It would be a disaster if the decide to not put a lock over it. The whole point by making the fjordcity is to connect the city to the water. The tracks is today a barricade and will be even with a new bridge...

I can't help but think that building scrapers over the tracks will be very hard.

Scrapers of a certain size need good foundations, and with the ground conditions near Oslo S those foundations would have to run deep. This would mean that the whole area would have to be completely torn up, distrupting a lot of train traffic. If they are to build scrapers there, the whole station would probably have to be either moved or shrunk.

If you ask me, the best thing to do is to just build a dense but relatively low urban area (5-8 floors). Buildings that low can stand on foundations, and trains can run underneath. After all, skyscrapers don't necessarily equal a good urban areas.

I agree though, it's a great place for a cluster.

I can't help but think that building scrapers over the tracks will be very hard.

Scrapers of a certain size need good foundations, and with the ground conditions near Oslo S those foundations would have to run deep. This would mean that the whole area would have to be completely torn up, distrupting a lot of train traffic. If they are to build scrapers there, the whole station would probably have to be either moved or shrunk.

If you ask me, the best thing to do is to just build a dense but relatively low urban area (5-8 floors). Buildings that low can stand on foundations, and trains can run underneath. After all, skyscrapers don't necessarily equal a good urban areas.

I agree though, it's a great place for a cluster.

I find myself often agree with what you have to say, but I`m not totally convinced this time. First, like you I don`t think highrises always is the best urban development, rather contrary. I like highrises and scrapers, but they must be located with smartness. Not all over the city, especially not in Oslo or cities in Europe in general.

That said, I think a cluster in this area of Oslo is the best location for a cluster and only natural IMO.
So is it possible to build there? Well, I`m not an proficient, but I will be surprised if the ground conditions are worse than Barcode south of the tracks, or Postgiro/proposed KLP/Plaza north of the tracks? It could be of course, but I have trouble believing in that. So the ground conditions is probably not the issue here. Concerning the daily train activities on the tracks, they probably have to close 2-3 tracks at the time during construction period. I guess they have to close some tracks even if they build low, but maybe for a shorter period. So I don`t think the ground conditions or the daily trains are the problem here, but rather the costs and the Nimbys.

The costs is one of the reasons they should build high here, the same argument they had for Barcode. Actually I think the same arguments used for Barcode could be used for highrises over the tracks, economy and environment . These are immortal arguments for higrises IMO.

Highrises is not always the coolest thing in daytime, but what they take with shadows then, they give back with light, atmosphere and drama to the city at night! Thats why I like highrises, and there is no better place for them in Oslo than over the train tracks.

I don't see it happening, sorry! But i hope i'm wrong. The bus-terminal is one thing, but building on top of the other tracks 1-15, i don't think it will turn out economicly realistic. Maybe they should build on top of the that again while they are at it.... The Stockholm thing is early plans, but they are cool and i hope it works out for them! But look at the prices just for Fjordbyen appartments, and here they have to work with the station-problems on top of that! Atleast i think the city should do a study on the matter while they are working on Oslo S-area plan, considering different type of building including skyscrapers, and maybe even a park so we would get some real numbers, maybe some investor would consider doing it after all if they knew they had the city in the back (Disp. for car-park and freearea on roof instead of garden + maybe disp for other stuff in Schweigaardsgate as a bonus).... The city isn't afraid of doing shady deals with the private on other occations, but then they aren't that concerned with building over the tracks perhaps. Lids aren't that uncommon, there is one on top of Gjøvikbanen at Vålerenga, and Skøyen/Lysaker have done it over E18.... :D Most of La Defense is located on a concrete plate over a large station aswell!

Don't think about where Mad is putting the terminal in the middle of the tracks in the picture tough, that's a useless placement, and it will never happend.

How they made any calculations for how much it eventually would cost to made a lock?If they can afford to do it in Stockholm which is not even in the centrum (except part of it) Oslo can to! Well, lets hope so....

I truly have been reading stuff I shouldn't have read: plans made by Byens Fornyelse!!!! I feel like I've been brainwashed.:nuts: This is what their report on the track-area of Oslo S said, though I won't guarantee how exact this is:

Skanska sier at det nå finnes enorme bormaskiner som kan grave seg gjennom løsmasser og etterlate seg et gigantiske rør med metertykke betongvegger. Med en slik tunnel under Gamlebyen blir det ingen gravearbeider på overflaten, ingen konflikt med kulturlag, ingen bygg må rives. De har beregnet at en slik tunnel og en kjempekulvert stor nok til å romme hele sporområdet øst for Akerselva vil koste 3,6 milliarder kroner. Tomteverdien på de frigitte arealer overstiger trolig dette beløpet.

It sounds fantastic, almost too fantastic...

How much money have Christian Ringnes exactly :p? 3,6 mrd. sound like a bit of shitt to me for something so importent for Norways capital.

When they are finnished with Fjordbyen, the question will be, What now? The tracks will still be there as an open wound in Oslo. Of course they will build there sooner or later.

^^At that time there will be 4-lane railroads in all of the three main directions out of Oslo too, so they probably HAVE to do something about the Oslo rails, rethinking it all the way from Lysaker to Kværnerbyen! Or else it will just be MORE and MORE train-chaos in Oslo...

^^At that time there will be 4-lane railroads in all of the three main directions out of Oslo too, so they probably HAVE to do something about the Oslo rails, rethinking it all the way from Lysaker to Kværnerbyen! Or else it will just be MORE and MORE train-chaos in Oslo...

MORE and MORE you say, is that even possible? :lol:

Wich main direction doesn't have a 4 lane road? ;P Aren't ROM concidering building above Østfoldbanen at Loenga aswell? ;) If Jernbaneverket can make a profit, they sure will grab the chance if the risks are low.... But if BF can make a profit with their low-density pre-elevator city planning, sure as hell real density will make it more profitable;D

ROM eiendom is a subsidiary of NSB, not Jernbaneverket;) Don't think they're planning to build over the actuall Østfoldbane tracks, only the no-use tracks for goods-traffic on the west side of the station... There has been some talk about making changes in Østfoldbanens route in Loenga, but I guess we won't have sure answers here before the final study on the new Follobanen comes, probably in 2011-12.

I know what ROM is, but it's Jernbaneverket who is owning the tracks... :D


Loenga omfattes av Fjordbyen, Oslos nye bydel. Prosjektet er i en tidlig fase, og framtidig bruk av eiendommen er ikke avklart.

Loenga ligger mellom jernbanesporene på Østfoldbanen, i kort avstand fra Oslo S. På grunn av beliggenheten kan den ikke utnyttes til boligformål uten av Østfoldbanen overbygges. Det er nå lagerbygg og kontorbygg av lav standard på eiendommen.

Utbygging av Loenga vil trolig skje etter 2015.

As far as i know Jernbaneverket has said absolutly no to tunnel the tracks, but they haven't said anything against building on top... :D

Lagerbygg av lav standard... Nice! Have some of those in downtown Ås too... Good to know that even Norway's largest city ain't a bit better!:p

Fremtidens Loenga
Det er fortsatt uavklart hvordan Loenga-området kan bli utviklet i fremtiden. Det er laget en skiseløsning til et boligutviklingsprosjekt med 200 boliger, men utformingen av dette vil blant annet avhenge av det nye høyhastighets-jernbanesporet mellom Oslo og Ski.

^^As I said... Dependant of the succession of the Follobane-project, Loenga may be delayed even more than ROM predicts, to 2018 or something..

^^Only 200:dunno:

I wonder how many they can build over the railtracks. With the same density as Grønlandskvartalene, 3000-3500 maybe(?) :cheers:

^^Only 200:dunno:

I wonder how many they can build over the railtracks. With the same density as Grønlandskvartalene, 3000-3500 maybe(?) :cheers:

If they build with same density as Barcode which I think is needed, they could probably build 500.000 m2, that could be 10.000 apartments.

Grønlandskvartalene isn't the most popular in PBE, but it's not necesseraly the density that is to high, but rather the placement of the buildings.... I went there last week and it looks great - these guys are difficult to please. What i miss most is larger green-areas, they are just designed to allow a lot of light into the building, but they are really a waste of precious space since they are to small to play and there are to many bushes and to much concrete... If i was a kid living in Grønland i would rather have a larger grass to play football and have waterwar and stuff...

200 appartments, that must be a joke, that's about what is in the one building that i live, and it's not very dense, huge green area all around my building, and sunny aswell. There is room for a lot more!

Grønlandskvartalene isn't the most popular in PBE, but it's not necesseraly the density that is to high, but rather the placement of the buildings.... I went there last week and it looks great - these guys are difficult to please. What i miss most is larger green-areas, they are just designed to allow a lot of light into the building, but they are really a waste of precious space since they are to small to play and there are to many bushes and to much concrete... If i was a kid living in Grønland i would rather have a larger grass to play football and have waterwar and stuff...

200 appartments, that must be a joke, that's about what is in the one building that i live, and it's not very dense, huge green area all around my building, and sunny aswell. There is room for a lot more!

They should have gone 3-4 floors higher at Grønlandskvartalene, and done something with the design, it looks like shit!

Beware of this awesomeness i discovered on Mir visuals site!!

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/Ingenioren2/SSC%20tegninger/Klp1.jpg


KRISTALLKLAR designed by Kristin Jarmund Architects in collaboration with Arkitektfirma C.F Møller has won the competition for new offices/multipurpose functions for KLP eiendom in Biskop Gunnerus gate 14b in Oslo.


Now i'm taking out the champagne if this one is built, what an completly adorable complex<3 Now i'm back on slide!

Oh, the initial proposal MAD made was only a volume-scetch? PURE AWESOMENESS! Oslo will be THE city in all of this region!!!! MORE RENDERS, please!:)

Btw, how do one rate threads? I wanna learn that for this one:)

I`M speechless!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:cheers::banana::cheers::banana::cheers:

Oh Oh OHHH AAHHHHH!

I had no idea it was going to look that awesome! AWESOME! :cheers:

Btw, the winning proposal is named KRISTALLKLAR. I hope we can find all the proposals, since many firms have been involved. But i guess the height will be changed a little though, most like less then 127m.

That would be very interesting! Couldn't find anything other than this myself...

^^ i think we didn't see that this has been a competition for a while, one of the proposals was MAD's which this thread is all about. Jarmund/C.F. Møller is the winner though, but it sais on Dyrvik Arkitekter AS's page from November 2008 that they are involved in making a proposal for Biskop Gunnerus Gate 14b: ("Dyrvik Arkiktekter AS er tatt ut til å delta i parallelloppdrag på Biskop Gunnerus gate 14B i Oslo. Oppdragsgiver er KLP."), so i guess there is much more. :)

Interestingly enough, it seems they have removed all connections to a future bus-terminal from the proposal. That can really mean anything, but nonetheless interesting!

Maybe it's in the basement? It wasn't part of the initative Klp sent to the city either tough... Maybe they are just passing on the idea from Mad... How come Dagbladet isn't hammering on Klps door by now;P Over 2 weeks have passed... I did see one low-rise proposal for this plot some time ago on an architects site, but i didn't think much of it, since i tough Mad was the winner... ;D

^^ might be a proposal too yeah. We should knock on KLP's eiendom door and say we love what they are doing and then they will provide us all info and HIGH resolution renderings of the proposals!

I think the future bus-terminal is a different project, thats why its not with this project. MAD just made a proposal for it by their own wishes?

I guess the height still is 127 metres?

^^ i doubt it is 127m. That was in MAD's proposal. But about that height yes.

Counting the windows you get 42 floors above the garden, but i can see that the windows don't match the inside floors so its wrong.

a bit boxy and sketchy still, but of course huge potential here. Hope its not one of those things that crop up from time to time and then we never hear about it again

^^Well, I hope we can say for certain that the eye-sore that uses this plot today will be teared down, and that's enough to cheer me up!

About the bus terminal, I know it's another project, but in the first proposal they made so much out of integrating this building with the bus-terminal, and now all that seems to be gone. That's what made me wonder...

The reason why the bus-terminal has been in question is that Ruter has requested to use this plot, since it's location is right next to the existing, and even make use of Schweigaardsgate for terminal use.

That's why Klp or someone else needs to figure out a new location for a bus-terminal before anything will get approved for this plot or else it needs to include a bus-terminal in the proposal. So that's another concern in addition to the aubvious height fright.. ;P

^^I hope that you know that I know that!;) Eitherway, I'm going to wait eager and patiently for the coming plan for the area around Oslo S, so we'll see...

I figured, i just wanted to clarify that - because i got the impression that i wasn't clear, and as you will learn later when we get more information, the bus-terminal is either under there or above the tracks :D

Do you know when the plan for the whole area come?

It's not that long since they started the plans, so I guess sometime during 2010..

Ingenioren is usually the one sniffing around on Oslo municipal's website. I only have this, that was posted some while ago in this thread, stating that they don't know when the plan will be ready: http://web102881.pbe.oslo.kommune.no/saksinnsyn/showfile.asp?fileid=1979785

Okey, thanks.

It's safe to say that they probably won't figure out all of this for a couple of years... When riksantikvaren kills a 54 meter building at Sydhavna without even bothering to look at it, these 3, and Fjordporten aswell, are bound for a tough ride with re-runs trough all the channels and maybe even through the government...

No, I was just referring to the Områdeplan. Then the regulating can start after this, killing another year on my estimate. Wonder what they will use the building for in the mean time. Go-kart?:)

They will probably rent it out to Europark as they usually do... Your idea is much cooler!

Just to clarify some more (Or confuse some more ;P)


Posten flytter i 2010 virksomheten til Lørenskog. KLP Eiendom har hatt parallelloppdrag med tre arkitektkontorer 2007-2008 (MAD Arkitekter, DARK, HRTB) for utvikling av eiendommen. Hovedkonseptet fra MAD Arkitekter ble presentert på en pressekonferanse 4. juni.


So Mad did the concept, and on the base of that they invited new teams for the details? Or what? They kept the tall tower in relation to plaza/postgiro, and the lower part to relate with Barcode aswell as an open solution, but other then that i can't see more simularities, they dropped the portal thing (wich i didn't think was fit for Oslo at all), and they shiftet the position (triangular with plaza/postgiro) wich i tought was clever aswell as the narrowing towards the top...

Yep, that was the project on the concept that started this whole thread. I guess the now had a similar "paralelloppdrag" on the main design/architectual expression.

Yes, so wonder how many architects got invited to make their real proposal from MAD's vision?

Since Jarmund won they will have to sit down and start to make the real proposal now, so i guess the design will change a little. If KLP wants to have it under construction by 2011 they need an approval of the completed proposal next year.

Raise your hand who thinks that's possible;D They used 4 years treating Nydalens small tower to the city council, - it's still not approved, and that one was a no-brainer!

^^ of course its not possible, and with todays financial situation i would wait a few more years! But i guess they understand that the process through Oslo kommune will take more time than the crisis, so they star pushing right away.

A stupid question from me here... Is the plot BG's gate 14 b outside the area of the Høyhusplan? I know that this building is to tall eitherway, but...

It is not a stupid question, as the høyhusplan does have 2 exceptions if i'm not mistaken, those are Vaterland and Bjørvika:D So PBE will not discard it with that regard atleast;) But also there has been mentioned in proposals for f.example Økern, where they refere to it as a location for Highrises in the kommuneplan, so i don't know what to make of the høyhusplan...

To me it looks like they are approx 13, 15 and 32 floors (office hight), so shall we say about 48, 55 and 120-130 meters?

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/Ingenioren2/SSC%20tegninger/Klp1.jpg

My guess is that KLP will try to build as fast as possible. When Posten moves out they will loose money if they dont do anything with the area. KLP have the money, and there will always be tenants for a project like this.

I don't doubt it's financial potential, it's smack in the best location ever - and it's more and more common for businesses to commit to environmental goals for themselves, and a location like this is getting them a long way:D
They should rent it out in the meantime tough, the newest addition to HIO is a perfectly fine building and it's been idle for years waiting for government funding to turn it into class-rooms etc. and no use of the old building in the meantime, i totally understand occupants in these sort of cases, and if when the building is empty waiting for demo some hobos feel like sleeping over there, rest asure that they will be bounced of to the street real soon.... That's just tragicly cruel and useless use of force!

Btw. if anyone feel like reading some of the statement from the city in the initative from Mad aswell as Rambølls report on a new bus-terminal and Roms answer is interesting reading, it's all found here:
http://web102881.pbe.oslo.kommune.no/saksinnsyn/casedet.asp?mode=all&caseno=200806509

WAUW!! Congrats to you!

From byantikvaren:


Konklusjon
Både i forhold til Jernbanetollbygningen som kulturminne i direkte tilknytning til
planområdet og i forhold til betydelig endring av det store landskapsrommet,
innseilingen til Oslo og Akershus festning fraråder vi sterkt høyhus innenfor
planområdet. Vi anser at tiltaket berører nasjonale verneinteresser. Saken vil sendes
over til Riksantikvaren for innsigelsesbehandling hvis planforslaget videreføres slik det
foreligger.

What Byantikvaren basically is saying is that there cannot be built anything tall in downtown Oslo because of Akershus fortress and some older buildings here and there...

@ Byantikvaren: That was possibly the most stupid argument i've heard against a new building in many years...

Jernbanetollbygningen? Isn't that the one they've hidden behind Oslo Z? If a building were destroying this buildings value as a kulturminne, it would be Oslo Z over all others, not some nearby building.

Anyways, the arguements are completely pathetic when the closest neighbors are Plaza and Postgirobygget. A "no" here would be forskjellsbehandling!

Why can't they just come out with what they really want to say instead of all these spurious references to other buildings?: We dont want tall buildings in Oslo, anywhere.

Byantikvarens uttalelse i saken er en ren parodi og reflekterer kun smak og ingen rasjonelle argumenter. Det er like mye hold i å hevde det motsatte, nemlig at høyhus i Bjørvika/Vaterland vil fungere som et moderne bakteppe og således fremheve de historiske kvalitetene til festningen. Det ene er like bra eller dårlig som det andre . Byantikvaren burde konsentrere seg mer om å bevare færre bygninger, enn å sette bremser for normal byutvikling.

Det positive her er egentlig uttalelsene fra bydel Gamle Oslo. Ingen tegn til protestaksjoner er nesten et kryss i taket etter problemene til Barcode. Kanskje det bare er stille før stormen, pleier jo å ta litt tid i denne sammengen før bybøndene våkner..

Byantikvarens uttalelse i saken er en ren parodi og reflekterer kun smak og ingen rasjonelle argumenter. Det er like mye hold i å hevde det motsatte, nemlig at høyhus i Bjørvika/Vaterland vil fungere som et moderne bakteppe og således fremheve de historiske kvalitetene til festningen. Det ene er like bra eller dårlig som det andre . Byantikvaren burde konsentrere seg mer om å bevare færre bygninger, enn å sette bremser for normal byutvikling.

Det positive her er egentlig uttalelsene fra bydel Gamle Oslo. Ingen tegn til protestaksjoner er nesten et kryss i taket etter problemene til Barcode. Kanskje det bare er stille før stormen, pleier jo å ta litt tid i denne sammengen før bybøndene våkner..
Byantikvaren? Meget bedre end Københavnere mod fejlplacerede højhuse. Det er virkelig bare sørgeligt - alt bliver skudt ned på forhånd med meget dårlige (eller ikke tilstedeværende) argumenter. :ohno:

De ville kanskje hatt et poeng hvis ikke det var for at Oslo Plaza og Postgirobygget allerede står der. Et tredje høyhus vil gi mer balanse og skape et visuelt tyngdepunkt i byen i motsetning til de to isolerte tårnene vi har nå.

Det der e det mest idiotiska argumente eg har hørt fra ein by antikvar noensinne. Herregud mann, han må jo forstå at det e jo allerede høyhus der, og at to høgare høghus ser rett og slett dumt ut, for å balansera det mær trengs det jo ett høghus te og mær. Herregud for ein tosk....

An antikvar is against a (tall) new building?!? What will be next? The pope is Jewish? Carl I Hagen is voting SV? George W. Bush giving us a theory of quantum gravity?

I am shocked and appalled.

Doesn't really matter, if the MD is positive - and i think they will be if they plaster enough fancy gadgets to it;) - Atleast they understand the value of building dense around Oslo S (I hope!)

The nimbys in the city council is another story tough, who would support such a building? Krf & V? Or the socialists? Don't see any of those cheering for this, but i may be wrong;D

Doesn't really matter, if the MD is positive - and i think they will be if they plaster enough fancy gadgets to it;) - Atleast they understand the value of building dense around Oslo S (I hope!)

The nimbys in the city council is another story tough, who would support such a building? Krf & V? Or the socialists? Don't see any of those cheering for this, but i may be wrong;D
FrP: sure. :D
H: probably. :)
Ap: maybe. :|
Krf: probably not.:down:
SV: probably not. :down:
R: very unlikely. :bash:
V: never. :crazy:

But FrP+H+Ap=9+16+18=43 should be able to carry the day. So the way I see it, it all hinges on what Ap will go for. And this is where I'm skeptical. On one hand, they did not want to go very high on the Barcode project. On the other hand they DID want to go high on the Barcode project, but only when the decision had already been made. They are the wild card. In the end, I guess they will not be against it, but may try to get something from FrP in return. So it depends on how greedy they are.

In favour is that what is there now is so truely hideous. It will be interesting to see what they land on.

It looks like shit, yes:)

http://i584.photobucket.com/albums/ss282/Ingenioren3/DSC_0197.jpg
That bridge has always intrigued me, any ideas why they would make a bridge along the building leading nowhere? ;D

http://i584.photobucket.com/albums/ss282/Ingenioren3/DSC_0198.jpg
Walking along cosy Schweigaardsgate

http://i584.photobucket.com/albums/ss282/Ingenioren3/DSC_0203.jpg
If one is to say anything positive about the building it does use the space very well, filling the whole plot, and even using the area under the bridge.

Oh, Schweigaards gate reminds me of Champs Elyssés in Paris!
You also forgot to take pictures of Tollbygningen. Haven't you heard that it's the most important component in this building?

It's impossible to take any pictures of it, it's already gone... Hasta la vista... All i could find was thing thing... ;D

http://i584.photobucket.com/albums/ss282/Ingenioren3/CSC_0194.jpg

It looks like shit, yes:)
That bridge has always intrigued me, any ideas why they would make a bridge along the building leading nowhere? ;D


I think the original plan for the area called for an elevated pathway for pedestrians from Oslo S beyond the car bridge - the rationale was that Schweigaards gate would see so much traffic, so people shouldn't have to go there if they didn't want to. Afaik the old configuration of Posgirobygget had it's entrance on the second floor. I guess the plan was for all buildings to be that way. Of course, there were no reason for people to go along there at all, since the area was so hostile no one in their right mind would put up shop there.

Hmmm... this makes me think of one thing: even if the renders are showing a more human Schweigaards gate (with trees and such), there still need to be a way for cars and buses as well as trams to get from east to west close to the train station = heavy traffic. What could they do to make that place feel better? That will obviously be a problem no matter what they build there, but I'd hate to see NIMBYs having their view that tall is inhuman "confirmed". Any suggestions?

^^ The tram will be moved to Dronning Eufemias gate, but yes there are many things to be done in the future if this street ever will be nice.

Du spurte om forslag eller grep for området? Slik jeg ser det er det 2 store utfordringer Oslo bør finne et svar på hvis området Oslo S/jernbanesporene, Vaterland og Grønland noen gang kan bli et vellykket bysentrum. Det første er å skjule jernbanesporene i området, og det andre er å åpne Akerselven hele veien til fjorden. Oslo bør finne et svar på dette og gjerne lage en plan for byutviklingen i dette området som strekker seg hundre år frem i tiden, alle byutvikling i denne perioden måtte da tilpasse seg denne "Masterplanen". I dag eksisterer det ikke en slik, og hvis den eksisterer er den i hvert fall godt gjemt.

Og hva skulle planen inneholde? For å svare på mitt eget spørsmål så må jeg først si at denne delen av byen har et helt fantastisk potensiale. For meg er det helt åpenbart at potensialet til Akerselven er totalt fraværende i byen i dag. Som jeg sa så bør elven åpnes hele veien til fjorden, i tillegg mener jeg at Akerselven burde være en kilde til en innsjø/kanalsystem i indre by. Det burde bygges en 50 - 100 m bred innsjø/kanal fra parken over Hausmann Bru og nesten helt ned til Operaen. Fra denne "hovedkanalen" burde det vært lagt en kanal som kunne gått østover langs Grønlandsleiret, og en kanal vestover gjerne mot Youngstorget. Rund disse kanalene burde det vært store åpne parkområder og i tilknytning til disse parkene kunne man bygget den nye byen i lignende stil som Barcode.. :)

Trams will atleast be moved to Bjørvika, as well as some buslines - and naturally (i think) the 2 lane bus/tramway in the street there. Remember, this is like the widest street in sentrum! A nice avenue with wide sidewalks and trees can be made, and if the bus-terminal is moved (wich is what we all hope for, and make or break for this skyscraper) a lot is done, the car-trafic can be high, as long as there's a buffer and there's a large and cozy room for pedestrians it will be fine...

The uninviting facades of Byporten/Oslo S needs to be done something with aswell, this is likely to happend with all the new plans there...

I'm thinking it will be a whole different street in 15 years or so, or we might end up with a superbusterminal on streetlevel on both sides and in the street itself...:ohno:

Fresh ideas muster, one can always dream....

KLP

(2008-04-04) Aften rapporterer KLP ønsker å bygge enda høyere enn Postgirobygget og Plaza. Det beste man kan si om planen er at en høyblokk i dette området, som allerede er ødelagt av høyblokker, vil skade Oslo mindre enn andre steder. Vi mener likevel at enegien bør brukes på å rive slike forfeilede bygg og ikke drømme om flere. Dersom KLP forvalte pengene dine er det kanskje på tide å flytte investeringen.


Looks like they are half-onboard, if only we could get a concensus for a highrise district there, but banned everywhere else - like in Paris :D They might get half-satisfied, maybe Oslo S isn't the best location by nature, but as they say - it's already destroyed in their eyes...

Looks like they are half-onboard, if only we could get a concensus for a highrise district there, but banned everywhere else - like in Paris :D They might get half-satisfied, maybe Oslo S isn't the best location by nature, but as they say - it's already destroyed in their eyes...

I wouldn't count on it. As they write:
Aksjon StoppBlokk ble startet i 2002 for å markere motstand mot bygging av høyblokk på Vestbanen spesielt og mot bygging av høyblokker i Oslo generelt.

Most of their website is devoted to "Bjørvikamuren" and related lies. NIMBYs of the worst kind. This is the kind of group I wish to marginalize.

My point exactly... :P Seeing that the area is already so ugly, there is no real reason to be against putting more of them there=) Just a hope i have that there won't be the same kind of nimbism in regard to Klp as we saw with Barcode. But may be hoping for to much...

What can you expect, they are made for one reason, to fight highrises, being that i think their comment is quite positive.. ;D

Canals and skyscrapers would be unique and special in any context - unfortunately this is the densest part of the city. So a canal to Youngstorget is probably not going to happen.... (even if I agree that it is a good idea). But one where they take part of Schweigaards gate and the area that will be left when the rail road is eventually put underground that might work.

Ahhh.... there are so many opportunities. And so many NIMBYs without vision. :)

Regarding stoppblokk - they are seriously using the noise about Krystallen, Kvitfjell as evidence "that highrise doesn't work". And even they cannot bring themselves to hate this. Come on...

btw, I've been reading some older documents regarding highrises in Oslo... it seems Ap has a history of being mostly positive in the right circumstances, so maybe I was a bit too negative regarding them. Which is good.

oh, btw2: Have any of you heard of "Himmelspeilet", OBOS, 40 stories, Vaterland some years before 2000? I would very much like to know...

Don't know himmelspeilet... Apparantly there has been a few proposals for this area, i remember seeing an article from Byggeindustrien when Plaza was U/C saying something like:

Now that [The concracter] has gotten the experience of building tall, we might see more taller buildings [The manager] says refering to the plot nearby where Thon has planned a simular height Skyscraper. Couldn't find any info about that one either.

Just to remind you of Vegvesenets plan for Schweigaardsgate:
http://www.vegvesen.no/Vegprosjekter/Schweigaardsgat


Etappe 2:
Byggingen av etappe 2 kan starte våren 2009, og vil anslagsvis stå ferdig i 2010. Utbyggingsarbeider i Schweigaards gate som består i å bygge gateterminal for busser, utbedre taxiholdeplassen og etablere nytt system for kiss'n ride utenfor bussterminalen.

"Østre tangent" fra Bjørvika etableres med tilknytning til Schweigaards gate i 2010 / 2011. Dette vil bli en innfartsåre til Oslo sentrum og Ring 1. I etappe 2 vil det også legges til rette for at Schweigaards gate skal kunne ta i mot trafikken fra Østre tangent.

http://www.vegvesen.no/binary?id=18609

Etappe 3:
Etablering av til sammen åtte permanente bussholdeplasser i gateterminalen i Schweigaards gate, standarden på eksisterende holdeplasser økes, området beplantes med trerekker og forholdene for fotgjengere forbedres ytterligere.

Dersom det vedtas at trikketraseen i Schweigaards gate skal nedlegges, så kan denne etappen gjennomføres først etter at Dronning Eufemias gate er ferdig og trikketraséen er flyttet dit.

Dette skjer i forbindelse med Bjørvikautbyggingen, tidligst i 2014.

http://www.vegvesen.no/binary?id=18598


Parallell to Etappe 2, the bus-terminal will get an upgrade inside aswell as outside to open it up to the travellers:
http://www.tu.no/nyheter/article201450.ece


Romsligere og vennligere bussterminal i Oslo

Etter 20 års drift får den trange bussterminalen i Oslo en høyst påkrevet oppgradering. Alle lokaler pusses opp, kapasiteten økes og terminalen åpnes mot Schweigaards gate. Jobben er lyst ut som en totalentreprise med anbudsfrist 2. april.

http://www.vareveger.no/multimedia/archive/00102/Bussterminal_1VV090_102739e.jpg
Denne veggen har gitt mange busspassasjerer et uvennlig og avvisende førsteinntrykk av hovedstaden. Nå skal fasaden åpnes opp som en del av en omfattende ombygging. (Foto: Anders Haakonsen)

Passasjerene vil merke mange forbedringer når ombyggingen blir ferdig i mars neste år. Mange busser som ankommer Oslo, slutter ferden ved en av plattformene mot Schweigaards gate. Passasjerer som går av her får et ublidt møte med hovedstaden. Terminalen presenterer seg som en bastant og avvisende vegg. Ved hver plattform er det en diskret dør som leder inn i avgangshallen. For å skjønne hva dørene skal brukes til, må man være kjent. En ukjent person som ser inn gjennom vinduene i dørene, vil tro det er nødutganger.

Nå skal terminalbygget åpnes mot Schweigaards gate. Veggen vil i stor utstrekning bli erstattet med glassfasader. Rom som ligger inn mot veggen vil bli fjernet. Disse rommene har ingen viktig funksjon i dag. Terminalen vil også få en ny østre inngang mot Tøyenbekken.

Tilbudet til passasjerene vil bli bedre. Avgangshallen blir ombygd slik at den vil framstå som lysere og åpnere. I dag er hallen en lang, oppdelt korridor som det er vanskelig å orientere seg i. Når ombyggingen er ferdig, er ruteinformasjon og billettsalg samlet på ett sted. Serveringstilbudet blir også utvidet.

Terminalen var opprinnelig planlagt for 450 bussavganger pr. dag. Nå er det 1 100 daglige avganger. Hovedårsaken er til denne utviklingen er en beslutning fra 1992 om å flytte fjernbussene og flybussene dit. Da terminalen ble planlagt var det meningen at den bare skulle ta trafikk til og fra Oslo og Akershus.

En så kraftig trafikkøkning må nødvendigvis føre til trengsel. Omgivelsene gir svært lite plass for utvidelser, men ved å utnytte arealene maksminalt er det mulig å oppnå en viss kapasitetsøkning.

Terminalen eies av Vaterland Bussterminal AS. Knut Bergersen som er adm. dir. i selskapet, regner ikke med at alle problemer knyttet til kapasiteten er løst når ombyggingen er fullført. - Det kan bli aktuelt å øke kapasiteten mer senere, sier han. - En mulighet er å legge en del av terminalen på lokk over sporene på Oslo S. Hvis man ikke ønsker en delt løsning, kan hele terminalen plasseres over sporområdet.

- Da vil de investeringene som blir gjort nå være bortkastet?

- Nei, det blir de ikke. Det er ikke aktuelt å flytte terminalen på mange år, og investeringene vil uansett høyne verdien av den 20 år gamle bygningen, sier Bergersen.

Here's one of the initial concept-proposals from Hrtb: (Glad this wasn't chosen;)

http://www.hrtb.no/nyheter/images/Lavblokka.jpg

http://www.hrtb.no/nyheter/images/Lavblokka_o.jpg


Mulighetsstudie lavblokka postgirobygget (02. april 2008)

HRTB har i samarbeid med VLA-København og Dyrvik arkitekter-Oslo levert forslag til ombygging og utvikling av Postens brevsenter (”lavblokka” på postgirobygget) Komplekset foreslås utnyttet til bussterminal, butikker, hotell og kontorer. Oppdrag for KLP eiendom AS.


And then there's the one from Dark - pretty cool aswell:)

http://www.darkarkitekter.no/lavblokka/thumb.jpg
http://www.darkarkitekter.no/lavblokka/prosjektark.pdf

^^But they choose MAD!:banana::banana:

It's good to see that bussterminalen is getting re-done.

When compared with Niels Torps amazing bussterminal in Göteborg, ours is just embarrasing.

^^But they choose MAD!:banana::banana:
I thought they chose CF Møller and Kristin Jarmund... :)

Oslo's growing. Have to go there when this project is done to see how it ended up.

The winning proposal for this site is truly stunning! I really hope it will be approved. The three layers of buildings in front of Oslo-fjorden in Bjørvika will look great. The cultural buildings by the waterfront, the taller barcode buildings behind them, and a small cluster of even higher buildings behind them again. A project like this is the missing piece; a new tallest tower in that location will really make Posthuset and SAS-hotellet seem less out of place, and a new modern building deserves to be the focal point of Oslo skyline.

I didn’t see this one (http://www.archdaily.com/19748/højblokka_puls-mapt-dark/) posted before, but I guess it is one of the other proposals for this site. The winning one is a LOT better though.

^^Thank you and welcome to the forum!
What a great find! A missing piece in this project. I knew there were three groups in the design-competition, just as in the concept-competition, but I didn't know which was the third. This seems to be it.

To me, this looks really awesome, but I'm glad they chose KJ/CF as the final winner. Theire proposal is just a tad more awesome:)

I'll post the renders from your link here, for all to see.



MAPT + DARK Architects
Proposal for parallell competition (DECLINED)

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o309/IceCheese/BGg14b/1.jpg

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o309/IceCheese/BGg14b/2.jpg

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o309/IceCheese/BGg14b/3.jpg

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o309/IceCheese/BGg14b/4.jpg

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o309/IceCheese/BGg14b/5.jpg

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o309/IceCheese/BGg14b/6.jpg

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o309/IceCheese/BGg14b/7.jpg

^^

I don't know. I kind of like this one as well. The problem with the winning proposal is that it is not particulary independent of trends and fashions (tidløst). I agree that it looks great now, but what about 20, 30, 40 years from now? I fear that the day will come when tastes have changed and people will ask themselves what the hell they were thinking building a building like that.

No way, the winning proposal is much cooler, and it fits with barcode in my opinion... :D

You just got to love the base on that one tough, trully stunning:eek:

Welcome to the forum, thanks for digging up this one for us... ;)

^^ i agree, the winning design is better! But i would not cry if that one won either, its not horrible! ;)

Thanks for showing us this SMCD, the incredible thing is that i saw that the day it came, but forgot to post it on the forum! :P

And welcome to the forum!

^ You bastard...:bash:

Nice to see more proposals, but I also like the winner better. m)) I would be really sad if this plot ends up with a cheap mid-highrise.

And where's the winning proposal? Someone post some renders!

Page 6? http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=35295896&postcount=103

But I can repost it. Probably wouldn't hurt...

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/Ingenioren2/SSC%20tegninger/Klp1.jpg

Thanks for the welcome. :)

The proposal I posted is not terrible, and it might just be the renders, but to me it just seems a little cheap and bland. Doesn’t fit as the center of attention in the skyline, I think (the base is cool, though). The winning proposal seem to have a more interesting and unique shape and texture. I don’t share Grauthue´s (:lol:) assessment that it isn’t timeless. It’s futuristic, but still classy and Scandinavian in a way. As long as it is a good example of an architectural style and era, it will be interesting even if peoples taste changes IMO. And in 30-40 years it will hopefully not be the prominent piece of the skyline anymore.

Too bad they haven’t released more renders, by the way. Would like to see how it looks from different angles. I am also surprised we haven’t seen anything in the papers yet.

Damn papers, someone should mail dagbladet... :)

Yes, or maybe it should be kept quiet, so we don’t get all the protesters going. ;)

As the YIMBY-organization we could mail them and ask for press-material. Then we are the news. We always know things first anyways...

Yes, or maybe it should be kept quiet, so we don’t get all the protesters going. ;)

I suport that! :P

Lets contact Jarmund or MIR and send us full size renderings, a better way so we don't bother those nimbys just yet!

As the YIMBY-organization we could mail them and ask for press-material. Then we are the news. We always know things first anyways...

Yes a very good idea!

Amazing proyect!

Who has a yimby-address? Don't forget to ask about the heights of each building =)

Who has a yimby-address? Don't forget to ask about the heights of each building =)

We can use the info(at)yimby.no address. I PMed IceCheese with the login details, but any of us here should be able to use it.

Send me a PM if you want your own yimby.no address

Just wanted to show you an article from 2006, where this part of Oslo is excepted from the highrise plan:

http://www.dagsavisen.no/innenriks/article266583.ece


– I resten av byen er vi ganske restriktive her er grensen 42 meter. I Bjørvika har vi ikke noen fastsatt grense bortsett fra at det ikke kan rage over Ekebergskråningen. I tillegg tar vi en vurdering ut fra faktorer som arkitektur og framtoning sier Horntvedt.


Wiki:

Ekeberg er navn på høydedraget som stiger opp sydøst for Bjørvika i Gamlebyen i Oslo. Særpregende for berget er det langstrakte og helt flate Ekebergplatået som ligger jevnt over ca. 140 m.o.h., mens Ekebergs høyeste punkt ligger 207 m.o.h. og befinner seg på Brannfjellhøyden


So we will probably not see any real skyscrapers around Oslo S, if they don't accept that we can build higher than hills... As stated in the Plaza tread, the Oslo S plan might be ready in January.. ;)

^^ Looking forward...:horse:

Sounds good. :cheers:

Might be a stupid question, but what exactly will be included in that plan?

These are the things we know of:

Oslo S project, Galleri Oslo, Postens brevsenter(Klp Skyscraper), Oslo Plaza, Busterminal over Oslo S tracks.

I think (or hope) they will go more into detail, and be more longsighted than that. I hope they also look on Jernbanetorget T, the square south of Østbanehallen, the whole above-ground track area of Oslo S, and maybe also the far future of rail in the area and Byporten:) That's my dream! But since they're done already in January, I guess there is a limit on what they could include...

^^^ Okay, sounds good. Can’t wait.

Damn, I like this one too! I say, why not build them both :D

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o309/IceCheese/BGg14b/3.jpg

http://i699.photobucket.com/albums/vv353/Ingenioren2/SSC%20tegninger/Klp1.jpg

^ That would fit well where the blue parking-structure opposite of Plaza is now :)

I also like that one. More of a signal building effect.

Oh well, at least we're getting a new highrise.

^ That would fit well where the blue parking-structure opposite of Plaza is now :)

We can dream. ;) They need more room, right?

BTW, did anyone mail the architects and ask for more renders/information?

^ Why would the scraper need room, they can fit well into as an infill in a city block i think:

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z152/jackssc/Renderings/785eighth.jpg

^^ No, I meant that Radisson SAS needs more room, hence the proposal for a wider Oslo Plaza, so they should build “Høyblokka” where you proposed and use that space.

Aha! That would be the best, yes :D

^ Why would the scraper need room, they can fit well into as an infill in a city block i think:

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z152/jackssc/Renderings/785eighth.jpg

Completely off topic, where is this from? Great looking tower.

vvvv

I guess what I mean was what's it called? =P

It's from New York :D

I'm posting these better renderings from CF Møller (and also one new one:eek:), which was brought to our attention by mlm:

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o309/IceCheese/KLP1.jpg

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o309/IceCheese/KLP2.jpg

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o309/IceCheese/KLP3.jpg


And link to press release: IN ENGLISH (http://www.cfmoller.com/siteCFM/newsdetail.asp?x=&detail=12748&langcurr=2.1.1) and IN DANISH (http://www.cfmoller.com/siteCFM/pressdetail.asp?x=&detail=12759)

Probably nothing interesting in it but there's an article on the project in Dezzen:

http://www.dezeen.com/2009/07/03/crystal-clear-by-cfm%c3%b8ller-and-kristin-jarmund-arkitekter/

^^ nothing new, but always nice to see articles about it. :)

Well, it's the first one we have seen really :D Looks like they are considering solarpower in the windows simular to that of the opera house.

Way overdue to update the first post, no?

Well in that case here's another one.:)

http://www.worldarchitecturenews.com/index.php?fuseaction=wanappln.projectview&upload_id=11960

Thanks for the links. We don't know yet if this building will be approved though. I give it 60-70% chance for approval.

Way overdue to update the first post, no?

Done and done (took the liberty to change the thread title too, since i don't like calling buildings by their street adresses!).

Btw, Thanks to Atlanica! :cheers:

^^Shouldn't "Krystall" be written with two Ls in Norwegian?!:nuts:

^^ hysj da! now i have to change it all again! :D

Like it! It will be a soarly needed new highrise in that area. But it doesn't look taller than Plaza.

^^ I doubt it is :(

Sure it is, let's say 126 meters?

Good to see that the project is still active and gets some publicity. I like the intricate shapes of the new render – wondering if all that glass will be cost effective, though.

^ Now, when will the Norwegian media "discover" it?:D

I'm guessing it will be simular solar-cells as the opera, these buildings are very exposed to the sun with no other buildings to the south :)

Edit: Are rather it should be, i now see they are facing north :nuts: So definatly not solar-cells!

No mention of the road/river solution in either articles, have they forgotten about this issue? (Very important for approval)

^ Now, when will the Norwegian media "discover" it?:D

They just did. There was a piece about it in Aftenposten a couple of days ago. I don’t have it in front of me, but they focused on the inevitable height-quarrel that we always know will materialize. If I remember correctly Plan- og bygningsetaten meant that the complex was three times too big:dunno:, but Byrådet was generally positive to something high and dense on the property. I think it said the highest building was 116 m, so not as high as we thought.

It also confirmed that the “områdeplan” of next year will affect the complex, and KLP want to start the construction in 2012 (I think – my memory might fail me).

^^Interesting. In my defense to not posting it a long time ago, I am sorry to announce that I no longer subscribe to Aftenposten, after a crazy arguement with their market-department.

It's great that the city council acknowledge that high density is necessary in this area of Oslo, and that they don't win much on keeping it low. Hopefully they also realize how stupid the protection of Tollbygningen would be..

I think you got it pretty much correct there SMCD. I'm not quite sure what to make of what PBE(?) said about it, but the signals from the policial level was positive. At least for now.

So the områdeplan will be sort of an architectural competition with several suggestions, sounds good. Wait untill december then! I see they claim to "open up" the area, so i guess they have abandoned the idea of putting the road trough the building and opening up the river then? They would have mentioned it if so, right? River-lovers will be pist off (There are a lot of them.), that is not good at all...

So what will happen now? Are they going to build the buildning?

We don't know yet, but fingers crossed

There will be a meeting this Friday where people can express their opinions about it and other projects in the area. "Krystallklar" is dependent on the outcome of the "Områdeprogram" that will be the result of this meeting (+other political desicions)

^^ We should all express our positive opinion about this one. Is it possible to support it without being there?

Most probably they will lay out a suggestion for the Områdeplan on høring. Then it should be possible to make comments. But to be able to make real suggestions, it is much more probable that they will go through if one presents them at the meeting.

much of the solutions here are well planned and going forward as we speak. Bussterminalen is going to get a make over very soon. architects are hired and underway. also what schweigaardsgate is going to get a greener feel to it and the tram line going to be moved over to bjørvika side of town. i think they should build another skyscraper right next to oslo plaza. the shitty building standing there all ugly and with absolutely no esthetic quality whatsoever. and there they could also go quite high with say a round scraper of som ekind. would be much much cooler.

Lund & slaato has also a big 21.500 kvm business building soon to be built right next to Skatt Øst. This will be quite similar with 3 three lamells like skatt øst has. There is also a project that Rom eiendom has right next to the above mentioned. this will probably be 150 or so apartments if it is approved by plan og bygningsetaten.

And i also would like to lobby for sanering of Gunerius. Make a much much bigger complex here with a lot more shops, pubs and perhaps apartments on top. the whole center is a disaster and a sore in this city. wouldnt mind it if oslo spektrum also could go a bit bigger, so that we could attract actual superstars to perform in our city and not just in globen and such.

Does anyone know about any free architect programs that you could sort of draw a building into a picture? This would be great and we could all participate with giving our ideas a amateur picture to relate to. this would also be quite interesting to look into.

Does anyone know about any free architect programs that you could sort of draw a building into a picture? This would be great and we could all participate with giving our ideas a amateur picture to relate to. this would also be quite interesting to look into.

Well, I'm not an expert, but I know you can get pretty far with just Photoshop and Google SketchUp.

yep. I can show some of my stuff.

Great project guys! Will the construction soon start?

Is it gonna be approved? Would be so freaking awesome if it does!

Well, the project is currently in a very critical phase, and it's very hard to predict the outcome right now. For construction start I guess we can hope for the second half 2010, but I would say some time during 2011 is the most likely.

According to Aften Aften, the final height is 116 m, and they hope for construction start in 2012.

According to Aften Aften, the final height is 116 m, and they hope for construction start in 2012.

lower than plaza?!?!

:ohno:

1m? It must be deliberate, trying to keep a low profile, instead of proposing the tallest, it's just another building ;)

1m? It must be deliberate, trying to keep a low profile, instead of proposing the tallest, it's just another building ;)

yeah, maybe thats why.

i was expecting something that was gonna be taller than plaza, though.. i thought this was going to take plazas place as oslos "main" tower!

The idea is (or was with Mads drawing) to make a triangle of towers, to stop them 2 towers from looking so silly... But imo. we need more than that, and we need both one significantly taller building with a tall spire (atleast 150 m to roof) - located on top of Galleri Oslo and several lower ~ 70 - 90 meters surrounding them making a nice pyramid shaped skyline....

With Fjordporten at app. the same height too, the skyline would be very leveled... Too bad, really.

It just shows how fucked up opinions on highrises are in Norway...

Thnx!

According to Aften Aften, the final height is 116 m, and they hope for construction start in 2012.

Is it gonna be high as the picture tells us?

^^ Well, in the render it looks higher than the two other towers, but apparently it’s not. Probably because of the supposed angle.

I agree with the assessment that the reason for it being 1 m lower than Plaza is that KLP is playing it safe. They know that you must keep a low profile in Norway. The moment someone mentions “new highest building” hell is loose.


The idea is (or was with Mads drawing) to make a triangle of towers, to stop them 2 towers from looking so silly... But imo. we need more than that, and we need both one significantly taller building with a tall spire (atleast 150 m to roof) - located on top of Galleri Oslo and several lower ~ 70 - 90 meters surrounding them making a nice pyramid shaped skyline....

Very much agree, but it’s too much to hope for, I think (at least for the next couple of decades). IMO, the most important would be to give Posthuset and Plaza company of a couple of modern highrises – so if Fjordporten and Krystallklar gets built I will be a happy man. But I have to admit – a 150 m tower with a spire (and colored lighting of the roof and spire) would be a wet dream. Maybe they could build an observation tower like Space Needle in Seattle – that is something they could build right away without worrying about tenants. ;) A tower like that doesn’t have to be massive like a normal highrise, so it might be easier to build over the train tracks? A restaurant and observation deck at the top, a gift shop at the entrance … Sorry – off topic.

Maybe they could build an observation tower like Space Needle in Seattle – that is something they could build right away without worrying about tenants. ;) A tower like that doesn’t have to be massive like a normal highrise, so it might be easier to build over the train tracks? A restaurant and observation deck at the top, a gift shop at the entrance … Sorry – off topic.

so unoriginal, though.. all cities seem to have one of those these days.

I don't like it being lower than plaza, but it's probably a smart move. The politicians seemed positive at 127. Let's just keep them that way - the more pretty high rises we get, the more we can convince people they are not the biblical apocalypse.

Seems like it will be 110 meters tall. Wish it was a little taller :(:

http://www.cfmoller.com/siteCFM/projectdetail.asp?x=&detail=2482

^^ even lower than Postgiro...

Can't blame the architects and developers, they just want to build something nice. And the taller the lesser chance of success since the environment on highrise-topics in Norway is so fucked up. :(

Who can really tell the height difference between 110 and 116... I'm sure for most Oslo-inhabitants it will look taller than it's nabours, because of it's location :D

Who can really tell the height difference between 110 and 116... I'm sure for most Oslo-inhabitants it will look taller than it's nabours, because of it's location :D

I thought the reason people use Oslo S is because they're not Oslo-citizens:nuts:

It will look taller from Oslo S aswell, since it's right there next to the tracks!

That's what I'm saying. It will look the tallest from Oslo S. The people using Oslo S mostly comes from the suburbs.

Nice to see some new renders of this project. At only 110 meters, the probability of seeing the project approved should be high.

I don't think it makes a difference, you live in a city where a tall building can be anything over 6 floors... (And in some cases, even 4 floors is complete outrage...) :nuts:

^^ I know … I’m trying to be positive. ;)

But really, I can’t see any arguments for them to use on this one. But then again – I’m no NIMBY.

My qualified guess, is that they will need to go another round, before this get's aproved. For instance, Oslo kommune doesn't want tall buildings close to Akerselva, due to natural ventilation. 80 meters(40 on each side) is a rule they will try to follow. I also think they will wait and see what will happen regarding the Oslo S masterplan.

My qualified guess, is that they will need to go another round, before this get's aproved. For instance, Oslo kommune doesn't want tall buildings close to Akerselva, due to natural ventilation. 80 meters(40 on each side) is a rule they will try to follow. I also think they will wait and see what will happen regarding the Oslo S masterplan.

Posten is moving out next year and I don't think KLP wants to loose money while they are waiting for something that might never happen. If the approval slows up, my guess is that KLP just rebuild the current building so they can start earning some money. That would be a loss for Oslo, and I hope the politicians understand the situation.

I like Krystallklar a lot, but in many ways I'd prefer this one from HRTB
. The area needs something that aint boxy.


http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u315/erreflot/lavblokka.jpg


http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u315/erreflot/lavblokka2.jpg

^^ I haven't seen that proposal before. Was it an entry in KLP's competition?