I would rather prefer indian giants in fmcg sector than foreign ones controlling my essential daily use.

this sector is backbone of economy and i dont want it in hands of single entities.

fde in single brand retail is good,not multi.

I am sure many indian multi brand retails will now just conveniently offload stake.

FDI in retail doesnt necessarily bring in funds from abroad.

It is also affects a lot of manufacturing sector

it will be in form of loans. Wait for gurumurthys article tomorrow to hear other side.

prof vaidyanathan had a nice article as well.

I would like to have restrictions. no of shops per firm all over country, max allowed in a state, further decision of state to allow such shops or not, further local gvts to have to give approvals,

I would also want these to be allowed in only 6 big cities and suburbs of country first. let them prove it there that they bring benefits and then move to tier 2 and tier 3.

There is enough money in India for indian companies to expand and establish multi brand retails. There is no need for FDI in it.

First improve countries transportation infra and then think of this. let them invest in that if they want.

Many countries have restrictions of foregn firms in this sector. japan doesnt allow such big companies in this sector.

Secondly what was need to push through without assuring the nation.?

Why this session itself? its open secret that obama is pushing for it. Other countries dont do that much.

When ak antony opposed it, alagiri did, dinesh trivedi was shouted at by pranab and he walked out, jairam ramesh said wait till april, what was necessary for mms,pc and pranab to push through now itself?

Why did prnab have to shout at everyone who opposed it in cabinet meet?

All these qn doesnt leave u so confident. i dont go by this utopian capitalism esp in essential items with foreign firms in control.

Capitalism can be from our guys too. retail is not a kamba sutra technology.

when france has its own majors,germany its own(walmart bondied and shut shop in germany), uk its own, why should india not wait untill it develops its own biggies?

Did we not do that in telecom? why not in retail?

I would trust a gurumurthy who is widely travelled and has pulse of the people and know how the economy works in our tier2 and tier 3 more than arm chair economists leading this country.

All their economic theory has failed in this country, their preictions on inflation and hence I know when they say this is a panacea for our economy, i know it will be exact opposite

Opening up for free trade means death for tirupur and other measures kills tea industry in nilgiris, govt has to buy grinder from TN, not outside state or chinese companies right KT?

But walmart can import all its manufacturing products from china - no issues?

given my countries issues with china, i dont want this whole sale importing that these companies do from china.

I am ok with possible killing of our manufacturing sector, when this money needed for retail can be easily coughed up by our own companies

when reliance can invest billions to buy in foreign lands, tatas can do that,k its clear they have financial ability to go massive in retail as well.

let them do and show us the success of such mass model than bringing in biggies who have huge financial power to sell very low initially and kill competition off and then increase.

I want many and monopolies and competition restrictions as well if these guys are to be allowed

@ nKUMAR: will do that in my future posts. Due to my tight schedule i am not able to do so. The only e-papers which i use for my posts is Dinakaran and dinamani.It is easy to distinguish between the two by their look . So i thought people can easily differentiate.

@ Kumar,

Who is preventing Indian biggies from making investments here? Again with your comment to allow MNC retailers only to "metros" you touched my raw nerve there. Ennoda DNA-vayae thoondi vittuteenga :) I don't want to get into that now as we'll get side-tracked (I am sure I'll keep this in mind and get to it later on why shoud WE get into TIER II and II first before getting into Tier I. I'll reserve my arguements for it later)

Back to topic, Parliamentary Standing Committee on Commerce, in its 90th Report, on ‘Foreign and Domestic Investment in Retail Sector’, laid in the Lok Sabha and the Rajya Sabha on 8 June, 2009, had made an in-depth study. Apart from the routine negative stuff like un-fair competition, wal*mart will swallow other retailers with their deep-pocket etc., etc., they did a good job in idenfying the other side limitations too (as given below). This is nothing new, but more detailed info on what it was talked about on IBN and what I said here

Source (http://www.legalindia.in/foreign-direct-investment-in-indian-retail-sector-%E2%80%93-an-analysis)

Infrastructure

There has been a lack of investment in the logistics of the retail chain, leading to an inefficient market mechanism. Though India is the second largest producer of fruits and vegetables (about 180 million MT), it has a very limited integrated cold-chain infrastructure, with only 5386 stand-alone cold storages, having a total capacity of 23.6 million MT. , 80% of this is used only for potatoes. The chain is highly fragmented and hence, perishable horticultural commodities find it difficult to link to distant markets, including overseas markets, round the year. Storage infrastructure is necessary for carrying over the agricultural produce from production periods to the rest of the year and to prevent distress sales. Lack of adequate storage facilities cause heavy losses to farmers in terms of wastage in quality and quantity of produce in general. Though FDI is permitted in cold-chain to the extent of 100%, through the automatic route, in the absence of FDI in retailing; FDI flow to the sector has not been significant.

Intermediaries dominate the value chain

Intermediaries often flout mandi norms and their pricing lacks transparency. Wholesale regulated markets, governed by State APMC Acts, have developed a monopolistic and non-transparent character. According to some reports, Indian farmers realize only 1/3rd of the total price paid by the final consumer, as against 2/3rd by farmers in nations with a higher share of organized retail.

Improper Public Distribution System (“PDS”)

There is a big question mark on the efficacy of the public procurement and PDS set-up and the bill on food subsidies is rising. In spite of such heavy subsidies, overall food based inflation has been a matter of great concern. The absence of a ‘farm-to-fork’ retail supply system has led to the ultimate customers paying a premium for shortages and a charge for wastages.

No Global Reach

The Micro Small & Medium Enterprises (“MSME”) sector has also suffered due to lack of branding and lack of avenues to reach out to the vast world markets. While India has continued to provide emphasis on the development of MSME sector, the share of unorganised sector in overall manufacturing has declined from 34.5% in 1999-2000 to 30.3% in 2007-08[12]. This has largely been due to the inability of this sector to access latest technology and improve its marketing interface.

Rationale behind allowing FDI's

FDI can be a powerful catalyst to spur competition in the retail industry, due to the current scenario of low competition and poor productivity.

The policy of single-brand retail was adopted to allow Indian consumers access to foreign brands. Since Indians spend a lot of money shopping abroad, this policy enables them to spend the same money on the same goods in India. FDI in single-brand retailing was permitted in 2006, up to 51 per cent of ownership. Between then and May 2010, a total of 94 proposals have been received. Of these, 57 proposals have been approved. An FDI inflow of US$196.46 million under the category of single brand retailing was received between April 2006 and September 2010, comprising 0.16 per cent of the total FDI inflows during the period. Retail stocks rose by as much as 5%. Shares of Pantaloon Retail (India) Ltd ended 4.84% up at Rs 441 on the Bombay Stock Exchange. Shares of Shopper’s Stop Ltd rose 2.02% and Trent Ltd, 3.19%. The exchange’s key index rose 173.04 points, or 0.99%, to 17,614.48. But this is very less as compared to what it would have been had FDI upto 100% been allowed in India for single brand.[13]

The policy of allowing 100% FDI in single brand retail can benefit both the foreign retailer and the Indian partner – foreign players get local market knowledge, while Indian companies can access global best management practices, designs and technological knowhow. By partially opening this sector, the government was able to reduce the pressure from its trading partners in bilateral/ multilateral negotiations and could demonstrate India’s intentions in liberalising this sector in a phased manner.[14]

Permitting foreign investment in food-based retailing is likely to ensure adequate flow of capital into the country & its productive use, in a manner likely to promote the welfare of all sections of society, particularly farmers and consumers. It would also help bring about improvements in farmer income & agricultural growth and assist in lowering consumer prices inflation.[15]

Apart from this, by allowing FDI in retail trade, India will significantly flourish in terms of quality standards and consumer expectations, since the inflow of FDI in retail sector is bound to pull up the quality standards and cost-competitiveness of Indian producers in all the segments. It is therefore obvious that we should not only permit but encourage FDI in retail trade.

Lastly, it is to be noted that the Indian Council of Research in International Economic Relations (ICRIER), a premier economic think tank of the country, which was appointed to look into the impact of BIG capital in the retail sector, has projected the worth of Indian retail sector to reach $496 billion by 2011-12 and ICRIER has also come to conclusion that investment of ‘big’ money (large corporates and FDI) in the retail sector would in the long run not harm interests of small, traditional, retailers.[16]

In light of the above, it can be safely concluded that allowing healthy FDI in the retail sector would not only lead to a substantial surge in the country’s GDP and overall economic development, but would inter alia also help in integrating the Indian retail market with that of the global retail market in addition to providing not just employment but a better paying employment, which the unorganized sector (kirana and other small time retailing shops) have undoubtedly failed to provide to the masses employed in them.

Industrial organisations such as CII, FICCI, US-India Business Council (USIBC), the American Chamber of Commerce in India, The Retail Association of India (RAI) and Shopping Centers Association of India (a 44 member association of Indian multi-brand retailers and shopping malls) favour a phased approach toward liberalising FDI in multi-brand retailing, and most of them agree with considering a cap of 49-51 per cent to start with.

The international retail players such as Walmart, Carrefour, Metro, IKEA, and TESCO share the same view and insist on a clear path towards 100 per cent opening up in near future. Large multinational retailers such as US-based Walmart, Germany’s Metro AG and Woolworths Ltd, the largest Australian retailer that operates in wholesale cash-and-carry ventures in India, have been demanding liberalisation of FDI rules on multi-brand retail for some time.[17]

Thus, as a matter of fact FDI in the buzzing Indian retail sector should not just be freely allowed but per contra should be significantly encouraged. Allowing FDI in multi brand retail can bring about Supply Chain Improvement, Investment in Technology, Manpower and Skill development,Tourism Development, Greater Sourcing From India, Upgradation in Agriculture, Efficient Small and Medium Scale Industries, Growth in market size and Benefits to govemment through greater GDP, tax income and employment generation.[18]

PS> Also read-through the pre-requesites to allow FDI's from the same source

Death blow for small scale retailers in tier II cities. I hope walmart becomes big flop atleast in tamilnadu. :lol:

And you are OK with allowing Ambanis and Birlas to run retail stores ? How is FDI going to be different ? In fact, this will increase competition, reduce prices and remove the middlemen.. Its going to benefit the producers and the consumers directly instead of the middlemen and the dealers.. which, IMO is very good..

Reg. Small scale retailers, this was the same fear that was raised when the supermarkets and branded retail stores were coming up.. they did not vanish, instead they also modernized and became more adapt to the situation.. saying that our retailers cannot compete with them is a gross under estimation.. they may struggle initially, but they will keep up after some time.. Besides, these retail stores will generate a lot of employment opportunities..

Opening up for free trade means death for tirupur and other measures kills tea industry in nilgiris, govt has to buy grinder from TN, not outside state or chinese companies right KT?

Apple vs Orange comparison. Giving it for free killed the grinder industry. Competition didn't kill it. Tea has multiple issues again I can provide details but it will spur into topic un-related . Again Tea industry is not killed just by competion.

But walmart can import all its manufacturing products from china - no issues?

On the other side it will also be an eye-opener for them to get to know our products and quality with respect to chinese. Also think beyond walmart. Walmart is not the only retail giant who be be getting into the country. They will have to compete with our existing unorganized and organized retail sector along with other multi-national giants.

given my countries issues with china, i dont want this whole sale importing that these companies do from china.

.......................

.........................

I want many and monopolies and competition restrictions as well if these guys are to be allowed

Also keep in mind that India is a signatory to GATT and so are US and other western countries.

People are not happy about chinese currency manuplation which gives overwhelming trade-balance advantage in their favour. We might be able to use that in our favour. That's where trade balance is key

Read my previous post / source for both the regulations and advantages for our own MSME's and retail infrastructure.

"You and me or government should not decide whether Wal*Mart is good for people. People themselves should decide on that. Let foreign retailers co-exist. If people don't like they won't buy things from there and they will automatically wind up. Let the market decide."

Superb post KT.. Hope people realize that the Govt. stop acting as a big brother and leave it to the people..

I am asking sensible Kerala forummers now please suggest ways so that TN can get its rightful water without any supreme court case etc without using the word TRUST.

This is the whole summary of the issue.

Remember all the other minor water sharing agreement like neyyar,siruvani etc the river flows a small portion in TN and kerala gives water as per central water board arbitration only nothing of its own wishes. And also the team who works with kerala feels it is a hell to get the quantity it is entitled. Many times they stop and after some days they release without even informing etc.

This water serves 4 districts which is completely rain show region with less rains and if the control goes to Kerala then imagine the practical head ache.

TN govt has many things to do on a day to day basis not to keep fighting with Kerala officiers.

There is no way TN is going to go back on this control issue.

The 1970 lease is what TN wants and if Kerala govt really worries about Kerala people just sent an G.O. to TN agreeing to that agreement with valid stats for dams TN will come and Talk for new dam period.[/B]


This is not a small issue to go with TRUST even with agreement see the situation of TN. Kerala just didnt care Supreme court order for decades.:bash:

TN needs agreement.

You go to a Job interview gets selected and then company says good come and join without a job letter. After couple of months we will give you xxx amount will you talk up or will any reputed company will do it. Just for a job if that is the situation then you expect TN goverment to keep the future of 8 million residents to Kerala govt just based on trust.

Dont keep your balance at your home and keep it with your neighbours home when you trust him is this possible.

My friend in Ottapalam heart in a meeting one politician saying a new bus stand will be build within 2 years if that party come to power but even after 10 years nothing happened.

My friend in Thiruvalla was supposed to have a nice road in front of his house he also trusted the local candidate who stood for election now even after 12 years nothing happened but he gets his salary from kerala govt ever month without any problem now tell me guys the fate of 8 millions people to trust Kerala politicians or a Agreement which is better.:cheers:

Apple vs Orange comparison. Giving it for free killed the grinder industry. Competition didn't kill it. Tea has multiple issues again I can provide details but it will spur into topic un-related . Again Tea industry is not killed just by competion.



On the other side it will also be an eye-opener for them to get to know our products and quality with respect to chinese. Also think beyond walmart. Walmart is not the only retail giant who be be getting into the country. They will have to compete with our existing unorganized and organized retail sector along with other multi-national giants.



Also keep in mind that India is a signatory to GATT and so are US and other western countries.

People are not happy about chinese currency manuplation which gives overwhelming trade-balance advantage in their favour. We might be able to use that in our favour. That's where trade balance is key

Read my previous post / source for both the regulations and advantages for our own MSME's and retail infrastructure.

Kongu Sir,
Enna Periyar issue la vaye thirakala? Just curious

@ Kumar,

Who is preventing Indian biggies from making investments here? Again with your comment to allow MNC retailers only to "metros" you touched my raw nerve there. Ennoda DNA-vayae thoondi vittuteenga :) I don't want to get into that now as we'll get side-tracked (I am sure I'll keep this in mind and get to it later on why shoud WE get into TIER II and II first before getting into Tier I. I'll reserve my arguements for it later)

Back to topic, Parliamentary Standing Committee on Commerce, in its 90th Report, on ‘Foreign and Domestic Investment in Retail Sector’, laid in the Lok Sabha and the Rajya Sabha on 8 June, 2009, had made an in-depth study. Apart from the routine negative stuff like un-fair competition, wal*mart will swallow other retailers with their deep-pocket etc., etc., they did a good job in idenfying the other side limitations too (as given below). This is nothing new, but more detailed info on what it was talked about on IBN and what I said here

Source (http://www.legalindia.in/foreign-direct-investment-in-indian-retail-sector-%E2%80%93-an-analysis)

Infrastructure

There has been a lack of investment in the logistics of the retail chain, leading to an inefficient market mechanism. Though India is the second largest producer of fruits and vegetables (about 180 million MT), it has a very limited integrated cold-chain infrastructure, with only 5386 stand-alone cold storages, having a total capacity of 23.6 million MT. , 80% of this is used only for potatoes. The chain is highly fragmented and hence, perishable horticultural commodities find it difficult to link to distant markets, including overseas markets, round the year. Storage infrastructure is necessary for carrying over the agricultural produce from production periods to the rest of the year and to prevent distress sales. Lack of adequate storage facilities cause heavy losses to farmers in terms of wastage in quality and quantity of produce in general. Though FDI is permitted in cold-chain to the extent of 100%, through the automatic route, in the absence of FDI in retailing; FDI flow to the sector has not been significant.

Intermediaries dominate the value chain

Intermediaries often flout mandi norms and their pricing lacks transparency. Wholesale regulated markets, governed by State APMC Acts, have developed a monopolistic and non-transparent character. According to some reports, Indian farmers realize only 1/3rd of the total price paid by the final consumer, as against 2/3rd by farmers in nations with a higher share of organized retail.

Improper Public Distribution System (“PDS”)

There is a big question mark on the efficacy of the public procurement and PDS set-up and the bill on food subsidies is rising. In spite of such heavy subsidies, overall food based inflation has been a matter of great concern. The absence of a ‘farm-to-fork’ retail supply system has led to the ultimate customers paying a premium for shortages and a charge for wastages.

No Global Reach

The Micro Small & Medium Enterprises (“MSME”) sector has also suffered due to lack of branding and lack of avenues to reach out to the vast world markets. While India has continued to provide emphasis on the development of MSME sector, the share of unorganised sector in overall manufacturing has declined from 34.5% in 1999-2000 to 30.3% in 2007-08[12]. This has largely been due to the inability of this sector to access latest technology and improve its marketing interface.

Rationale behind allowing FDI's

FDI can be a powerful catalyst to spur competition in the retail industry, due to the current scenario of low competition and poor productivity.

The policy of single-brand retail was adopted to allow Indian consumers access to foreign brands. Since Indians spend a lot of money shopping abroad, this policy enables them to spend the same money on the same goods in India. FDI in single-brand retailing was permitted in 2006, up to 51 per cent of ownership. Between then and May 2010, a total of 94 proposals have been received. Of these, 57 proposals have been approved. An FDI inflow of US$196.46 million under the category of single brand retailing was received between April 2006 and September 2010, comprising 0.16 per cent of the total FDI inflows during the period. Retail stocks rose by as much as 5%. Shares of Pantaloon Retail (India) Ltd ended 4.84% up at Rs 441 on the Bombay Stock Exchange. Shares of Shopper’s Stop Ltd rose 2.02% and Trent Ltd, 3.19%. The exchange’s key index rose 173.04 points, or 0.99%, to 17,614.48. But this is very less as compared to what it would have been had FDI upto 100% been allowed in India for single brand.[13]

The policy of allowing 100% FDI in single brand retail can benefit both the foreign retailer and the Indian partner – foreign players get local market knowledge, while Indian companies can access global best management practices, designs and technological knowhow. By partially opening this sector, the government was able to reduce the pressure from its trading partners in bilateral/ multilateral negotiations and could demonstrate India’s intentions in liberalising this sector in a phased manner.[14]

Permitting foreign investment in food-based retailing is likely to ensure adequate flow of capital into the country & its productive use, in a manner likely to promote the welfare of all sections of society, particularly farmers and consumers. It would also help bring about improvements in farmer income & agricultural growth and assist in lowering consumer prices inflation.[15]

Apart from this, by allowing FDI in retail trade, India will significantly flourish in terms of quality standards and consumer expectations, since the inflow of FDI in retail sector is bound to pull up the quality standards and cost-competitiveness of Indian producers in all the segments. It is therefore obvious that we should not only permit but encourage FDI in retail trade.

Lastly, it is to be noted that the Indian Council of Research in International Economic Relations (ICRIER), a premier economic think tank of the country, which was appointed to look into the impact of BIG capital in the retail sector, has projected the worth of Indian retail sector to reach $496 billion by 2011-12 and ICRIER has also come to conclusion that investment of ‘big’ money (large corporates and FDI) in the retail sector would in the long run not harm interests of small, traditional, retailers.[16]

In light of the above, it can be safely concluded that allowing healthy FDI in the retail sector would not only lead to a substantial surge in the country’s GDP and overall economic development, but would inter alia also help in integrating the Indian retail market with that of the global retail market in addition to providing not just employment but a better paying employment, which the unorganized sector (kirana and other small time retailing shops) have undoubtedly failed to provide to the masses employed in them.

Industrial organisations such as CII, FICCI, US-India Business Council (USIBC), the American Chamber of Commerce in India, The Retail Association of India (RAI) and Shopping Centers Association of India (a 44 member association of Indian multi-brand retailers and shopping malls) favour a phased approach toward liberalising FDI in multi-brand retailing, and most of them agree with considering a cap of 49-51 per cent to start with.

The international retail players such as Walmart, Carrefour, Metro, IKEA, and TESCO share the same view and insist on a clear path towards 100 per cent opening up in near future. Large multinational retailers such as US-based Walmart, Germany’s Metro AG and Woolworths Ltd, the largest Australian retailer that operates in wholesale cash-and-carry ventures in India, have been demanding liberalisation of FDI rules on multi-brand retail for some time.[17]

Thus, as a matter of fact FDI in the buzzing Indian retail sector should not just be freely allowed but per contra should be significantly encouraged. Allowing FDI in multi brand retail can bring about Supply Chain Improvement, Investment in Technology, Manpower and Skill development,Tourism Development, Greater Sourcing From India, Upgradation in Agriculture, Efficient Small and Medium Scale Industries, Growth in market size and Benefits to govemment through greater GDP, tax income and employment generation.[18]

PS> Also read-through the pre-requesites to allow FDI's from the same source

FDI in retail is inevitable, the only downside i see is its easier to dump chinese goods for cheap now than before...

Kongu Sir,
Enna Periyar issue la vaye thirakala? Just curious


நான் ஆத்திகன். கமல் பாஷையில சொல்லனும்னா ஆத்திகம் பழகுறேன் :lol:


Sometimes it is also nice to observe the conversation without getting involved :).

On a serious note I like smaller, check dams and I am never a fan of huge dams. But that doesn't mean that I will go to the extent advocating or demolishing bigger ones. One solution could be to build several small check dams across the path (on both sides of downstreams) and divert it through smaller canals to form lakes.

நான் ஆத்திகன். கமல் பாஷையில சொல்லனும்னா ஆத்திகம் பழகுறேன் :lol:


Sometimes it is also nice to observe the conversation without getting involved :).

On a serious note I like smaller, check dams and I am never a fan of huge dams. But that doesn't mean that I will go to the extent advocating or demolishing bigger ones. One solution could be to build several small check dams across the path (on both sides of downstreams) and divert it through smaller canals to form lakes.

that might be better long term solutions we need to work on reducing water intensive crops and conserver whatever water we get, this mullaperiyar issue is medium term issue.

that might be better long term solutions we need to work on reducing water intensive crops and conserver whatever water we get, this mullaperiyar issue is medium term issue.

It could be achieved in medium term. All we have to do is to send our Arul to check with his buddy Modi and get the secrets of how he did it :) [avarum oru periya dam kattunaru adhu vera vishayam]

TN should unleash all tricks of the trade if quantum of water is not received or rate increase whether or not new dam is built since kerala depends heavily for food requirements.

Huge amount of water is wasted into the sea and people are not willing to do the farming.

Prices of agricultural commodities can be regulated proportional to shortage or price rise.

So chillax guys :cheers:.

If Govt is going forward with the FDI in retail, we can see an Egypt kind of revolt here, This is not the right time, may be they have no option but to buckle on American pressure.

If Govt is going forward with the FDI in retail, we can see an Egypt kind of revolt here,

Need more than a one-liner. Detailed post explaining your stand before making such statements please.

vara vara pizza sapittukittu, barrista coffee kudichikittu kaiyilla oru mineral water bottlr vechi amreikka egathibathyam oziganu gosham pannurathu fashion-a pochi. :lol: Naan ungala sollala pothuva sonnen. But with respect to first line I meant it seriously

Obviously you are looking at FDI from just one perspective. Agreed that everything has positives and negatives. But here are few positives out of retail sector.

The positives and negatives changes from country to country, region to region and state to state.

We'll have an efficient supply chain process, transportation / truck sector will florish as ancillary industry. Will create more jobs.

This is again like your GDP mean/median theory. More than creating new job, it will snatch it from others. This is not like investment in manufacturing sector or service sector to create very huge new jobs. The central gvt has forecasted that 1crore job will be created due to this FDI. But it will kill more small scale retailers especially ananchi kadai types in million plus cities and metro cities.

When huge corporates get involved, it will improve the structural infrastructure (if not for people, atleast for those. veeralukku iraitha neer madhiri namakkum konjam nalladhu nadakkum).

More than nallathu, it will create ketathu in future.:)

You are talking as if the mom-pop shop / small retailers are treating their employees and labours (where they get things done from) in a humane way. Realitity is they are not. I think they will be better at the hands of corporate retailers than they are under saravana stores annachis. Labour force @ retail will be more organized with foreign retailers. Retail labor force deserves it.

I am not talking about saravana stores, pothys like retailers. I am talking only about crores of people who have their own investment and their own shop and also they work as owner and labor for their shop. These saravana, kannan departmental stores, nilgiri will not even make 4-5% of total retail sales.

Like that gentlemen mentioned in the IBN video, consumer is the king. Indian consumers deserve lower prices on branded items with more options. They shouldn't have to be dependent on someone going abroad and we deserve goodies on our doorstep.

Lower price for branded price? That should be a day dream in very long run.. Leave those imported branded items, I am worried about goods produced in India and not from america. Once walmaart like big MNC takes the charge in every cities/towns having population more than 1lakh.. the price even for Indian products will be judged by them on grocery items.


You and me or government should not decide whether Wal*Mart is good for people. People themselves should decide on that. Let foreign retailers co-exist. If people don't like they won't buy things from there and they will automatically wind up. Let the market decide. If you think people with deep pockets cannot fail you are wrong. Wal*Mart failed in Brazil and Germany.

Of-course yes. But I expressed my opinion on this FDI. I expect Walmart to be big failure in Tamilnadu(though only 4 cities will qualify now). Even Big bazaar was not that great sucess in TN when it was huge sucess in Bangalore, Western and Northern India.

Retail is not just Wal*Mart. It is beyond that. If a store like Ikea comes into India it will be a huge boon for carpentry and cottage industries at respective regions.

Finally the actual labors at the bottom of the supply chain (Like farmers, carpenters, artists, weavers / handi-craft makers, SSI's) will be in better hands with likes of Wal*Mart than they are in hands of middlemen now. They definitely will get a better value for their labor when you eliminate middlemen.

I agree it is not just walmart. But I repeat my point again! In retail sector we can be self sustaining, there is no need for an MNC to teach/organize/Sell/market our retail products. The organization/elimination of middle men can be done by the central government and respective state government.

When we have spineless government, assuming these MNC were successful in long run, they will take control over the price also they will teach the gvt. And how sure we can be the Walmart will not treat those bottom supply chain like middle men?


On the negative side, deep-pockets and purchasing-power could turn out to be evil too. With a corrupt and in-efficient government it is possible for those retail giants to buy-out our lawmakers and enforcement agencies to get things done their way.

But true capitalism is all about supply and demand / customer and supplier and the trust that exist between them. Let's give that trust a chance.

More than positive it will be negative for India if these MNC were sucessful. I explained the same above. Any gvt (Raul baba PM from congress, Modi baba PM from BJP or the amaiyar PM:lol:) that is going to be formed in India will be corrupt and also in-efficient especially in taking decision/control over FDI... One thing is for sure! if these MNC becomes sucessful, the food price i.e inflation will increase more than now. not but not least, china also allowed FDI in retail, but their native super market companies were dominating high than MNC. I don't like big super market culture also it does not support our infrastructure... more than this I would like to see Kannan dept stores, Nilgiri's type stores!! many annachi kadai's in residential area of Chennai are turning to mini super market concept! ;)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

see the gvt priorities! Instead of making arrangement for FDI in infra like railways, metro/mono rail etc., they want FDI in retails.. manmohan singh economics!:nuts:

vara vara pizza sapittukittu, barrista coffee kudichikittu kaiyilla oru mineral water bottlr vechi amreikka egathibathyam oziganu gosham pannurathu fashion-a pochi. Naan ungala sollala pothuva sonnen. But with respect to first line I meant it seriously

Even the ruling coalition members like Mamta there will be opposition,

Will set Walmart store on fire, threatens Uma Bharti (http://www.indianexpress.com/news/will-set-walmart-store-on-fire-threatens-uma-bharti/880492/)

There should be a lot of opposition from the local angadi owners front who are not small in numbers and well united.

No FDI in India: Bangalore FDI Watch (http://www.indiafdiwatch.org/index.php?id=118)

may be an over expectation regarding "the Egypt" but its not so easy to bring in FDI-retail, in the present state.

I would rather prefer indian giants in fmcg sector than foreign ones controlling my essential daily use.

this sector is backbone of economy and i dont want it in hands of single entities.

fde in single brand retail is good,not multi.

I am sure many indian multi brand retails will now just conveniently offload stake.

FDI in retail doesnt necessarily bring in funds from abroad.

It is also affects a lot of manufacturing sector

it will be in form of loans. Wait for gurumurthys article tomorrow to hear other side.

prof vaidyanathan had a nice article as well.

I would like to have restrictions. no of shops per firm all over country, max allowed in a state, further decision of state to allow such shops or not, further local gvts to have to give approvals,

I would also want these to be allowed in only 6 big cities and suburbs of country first. let them prove it there that they bring benefits and then move to tier 2 and tier 3.

There is enough money in India for indian companies to expand and establish multi brand retails. There is no need for FDI in it.

First improve countries transportation infra and then think of this. let them invest in that if they want.

Many countries have restrictions of foregn firms in this sector. japan doesnt allow such big companies in this sector.

Secondly what was need to push through without assuring the nation.?

Why this session itself? its open secret that obama is pushing for it. Other countries dont do that much.

When ak antony opposed it, alagiri did, dinesh trivedi was shouted at by pranab and he walked out, jairam ramesh said wait till april, what was necessary for mms,pc and pranab to push through now itself?

Why did prnab have to shout at everyone who opposed it in cabinet meet?

All these qn doesnt leave u so confident. i dont go by this utopian capitalism esp in essential items with foreign firms in control.

Capitalism can be from our guys too. retail is not a kamba sutra technology.

when france has its own majors,germany its own(walmart bondied and shut shop in germany), uk its own, why should india not wait untill it develops its own biggies?

Did we not do that in telecom? why not in retail?

I would trust a gurumurthy who is widely travelled and has pulse of the people and know how the economy works in our tier2 and tier 3 more than arm chair economists leading this country.

All their economic theory has failed in this country, their preictions on inflation and hence I know when they say this is a panacea for our economy, i know it will be exact opposite

:cheers: exactly same points.

Let us take TN's case...If agriculture is backbone of villages.. As you said retail is backbone (for tier II cities/Mid towns growth)..

Even though we didn't have any FDI investment in manufacturing/service sector in tier II cities, how the the cities were progressing? It is purely due to retail, retail and retail only. Local production, Local consumption and Local logistics and Local supply chain. Assuming some MNC taking it over in long run? In no time it will be death day for this retail business in these towns/cities.

Now million plus cities i.e Chennai, Coimbatore, Madurai and Trichy will be eligible to get Walmart like stores. I am happy in this regard Tiruppur and Salem escaped.:lol: But still my hope is that Walmart will/should be failure.. (KT voda pazhaya compaaney...)

ANd finally same blood.. N.kumar.. retail is not a kamba sutra technology :banana:

I got another reason to hate this useless congress gvt... :lol:

Its important to note the 50% amount that companies should spend on backend infrastructure. This will give a big boost to Cold storages in the country. Considering huge amount of food produced in the country is wasted, we desperately need these investments in agricultural infrastructure.

ANd finally same blood.. N.kumar.. retail is not a kamba sutra technology :banana:

kamba sutravo, kama sutravo namma oorula namma ithini naala kilicha kiliyala vida konjam nerayavae kililikka vendi varum. adhukku neriya tools and technology thevai.

By tools and technology I mean market research, pricing, passing on the savings to consumer, quality shopping experience for customer, treating the suppliers with respect etc.,

Even though we didn't have any FDI investment in manufacturing/service sector in tier II cities, how the the cities were progressing? It is purely due to retail, retail and retail only. Local production, Local consumption and Local logistics and Local supply chain. Assuming some MNC taking it over in long run? In no time it will be death day for this retail business in these towns/cities.

Tier II cities-la maligai kadai and thuni kadai thavira vera yedhuvum illaingareengala? Thanks for acknowledging the status of most industrialised state :lol:, just kidding..

As a matter of fact they won't cease to exist. You still will continue to have Local consumption. What will differ is instead of local production it will be local production + international production goods that will be made available (consumer needs choice). Plus local producers will get wider market outside their own market too through retail giants. Logistics could be mixed as-well. Local logistics are still essential plus they can run franchisees too. Impact to local logistics is less.

Plus "retail infrastructure" like cold storages will be developed @ private company cost. Wastages will be minimal. You will have several distribution centers outside even Tier II cities to generate jobs instead of few maligai kadai annachi's on that towns. Sector will be organized.

I am not talking about saravana stores, pothys like retailers. I am talking only about crores of people who have their own investment and their own shop and also they work as owner and labor for their shop. These saravana, kannan departmental stores, nilgiri will not even make 4-5% of total retail sales.

Are you saying that local annachis don't violate norms? They are the biggest offenders of labor / child labor / wage exploitation / tax evasion (you name it).

I agree it is not just walmart. But I repeat my point again! In retail sector we can be self sustaining, there is no need for an MNC to teach/organize/Sell/market our retail products. The organization/elimination of middle men can be done by the central government and respective state government.

Government cannot and will not be able to eliminate middlemen if the sector stays un-organized. What they have to do is set the stage for it. And I agree that it could be organized without allowing FDI's.

But like Subramaniam of Subiksha said, retail business is not somewhere you make quick money. It needs patience and you got to play waiting game and more importantly stay-put to win and realize fruits. Real estate costs are involved. Apart from real-estate several huge upfront costs are involved for organized sector too and that's where MNC's with deep pockets have advantage and you can't bake the cake and eat it too.

Instead of making arrangement for FDI in infra like railways, metro/mono rail etc., they want FDI in retails.. manmohan singh economics!

Ungalukku venumna mattum invest panna phoreign company woo pannuveenga vendamna theendathagathavargala? Enna logic idhu machans? :)

In business terms there is give and take. A perfect trade-balance is the one that stays neutral. Summa "Gentleman" Heera scene tharasu mullu kanakka gun-u madiri nikkanum. That's what each country will aim for through various bi-lateral agreements or GATT. Neenga mullu unga pakkam sayanumnu ethir parkareenga. Michavangalukkum andha ethir parpu irukkum illa?

^^ Plus this will be good for our tea industry too. Brits still prefer Indian tea. Even americans prefer it. Whenever I visit India my colleges request me to get "tea" for them from India. Of-course I got to admit that whereever I work within US, I make it a point to introduce tea to them at the first place and I manage to get 75% of vellakarans (and karis) to get addicted to our tea :)

Tea industry pricing is often decided by brokers and middlemen just like any other produce in India. With screwed up tea policy at-least organized sector will give UPASI a hope. UPASI will be directly able to negotiate pricing with those companies. Unlike Subiksha or nilgiris with whom the volume will be less, the sheer volume of organized FDI retail shelves will be good for tea industry too.

Kongu,

if you cant negotiate a better deal with the locals, how you are going to do it with the FDI retailers? you will have less number of customers in numbers and your prices will gradually decrease with less alternative, in the long run you will loose.

We have a large population and we should concentrate on multiple small players instead one or two big players.. the economic activity will be spread out and will better survive without recessions.?


This FDI retail is not going to work out in india.

I agree with your other points that in Business there should be a give and take, the Americans can bring in their FDI in new technology, energy, automobile, Civil Nuclear etc.. but retail is what many wont agree.

If Govt is going forward with the FDI in retail, we can see an Egypt kind of revolt here, This is not the right time, may be they have no option but to buckle on American pressure.

All this is useless scaremongering.

What do you mean, "buckle to American pressure"? I thought this kind of crappy thinking had died out in the 90s!! :ohno: What do you think this is, Pakistan? Time you stop giving credence to "American pressure" nonsense.

Look at the posts and debates on various Indian forums. The reality is that a large percentage of urban Indians see this as a good thing for India. There is a huge constituency in India which sees this as a good reform. Look at the Chaibar threads in SSC itself!! Not everyone agrees with you about FDI being "a bad thing" - and that doesn't mean "American pressure".

I am not scarring you... umabharathi and mamta will do it with their supporters :)

DMK takes on Centre, opposes FDI in retail

The ruling AIADMK too is expected to oppose the move. “Amma (chief minister J Jayalalithaa has already instructed our MPs to oppose to certain issues. We will oppose all the bills which will affect the public. As far as the FDI in retail is concerned, we are waiting for her specific instruction. We are most likely to oppose it,” a senior AIADMK MP said.

Traders’ lobby prepares for a protest on December 1

Allowing FDI in retail is a lopsided decision. Walmart is not the solution to our economic problems. Why do you want to bring a US ailment here? BJP

I oppose it tooth and nail... it will ruin retailers and will lead to a point of unemployment beyond imagination in the country
Nitish Kumar | JDU

I would personally set afire the (Wal-Mart) showroom when it opens anywhere in the country Uma Bharati | BJP :lol:

We are opposing the decision but not breaking any norm of our alliance
Sudip Bandopadhyay | TMC

Commies will any way oppose it.:)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Italy amaiyarkum appuram congress karungaluku venna special walmart delhi la open pannatum.

Kongu,

if you cant negotiate a better deal with the locals, how you are going to do it with the FDI retailers? you will have less number of customers in numbers and your prices will gradually decrease with less alternative, in the long run you will loose.

We have a large population and we should concentrate on multiple small players instead one or two big players.. the economic activity will be spread out and will better survive without recessions.?


This FDI retail is not going to work out in india.

I agree with your other points that in Business there should be a give and take, the Americans can bring in their FDI in new technology, energy, automobile, Civil Nuclear etc.. but retail is what many wont agree.

Nobody is saying only FDI should be allowed to do retail business. Let those MNC giants compete with Indian conglomerates / super-markets / mom-pop shops and likes.

Brazil and Germany proved that being cash-rich alone won't guarantee success. All I am saying is compete and beat them instead of banning the investments of MNC's. Also take advantage of the positives that comes with it. If our SME's prove to them that we have better quality than chinese products we have opportunity to tap foreign markets through them too.

Developed countries are NOT happy about China's overwhelming trade balance and currency manuplation either. We have an opportunity to turn that to our advantage too.

Due to various requests from forumers from Kerala, TN and other states and following the discussions Mods had within ourselves, we have decided to move the Mullaperiyar Dam Issue thread from Kerala forum to South India Forum

Forum URL
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=1241


Thread URL

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1462686&page=9



As instructed earlier no new thread will be opened either in TN or Kerala for this.

Kerala forumers can continue to post in Kerala cafe and TN forumers in TN Arattai Arangam (Chai Bar) as they do now.

Pl maintain decorum at all levels.

Thanks

Kannan
(on behalf of Moderators)

I am not a person completely opposing FDi. but given this govt image, us image, i have my own suspicions on this

As I said, I am fine with fdi in single brand retail. Here too just like defence ofset proposal, there should be a minimum indian procurement rule. I think this is there.

Let me also add i have my biases.

I hate that walmart big time and hate its business ethics. Also unlike US, the other countires or their leaders have never sent out the image that they are lobbying for fdi in retail.

And MMS and US is a notorious combination, I am not willing to trust.

Tesco and carrefour too are big giants. What you see in these european ones is completely different business ethics.

Be it veggies, or milk or say potato chips,honey they clearly mention its british procured, from british farms. Same is done by french one carrefour.

Lot of importance is given to from where its procured and people give importance to this.

Then ithere is the fair trade marketing. a bit more high price, but customers are assured that farmers havent been exploited and have been paid the right price for their produce and is attested by Fair trade organisation.

Just wait and watch indian fellows will sell stake to them

Plus I want restrictions where not only the state govt decides, but also respective local government authority has to give permission for such multi brand retail shops.

Also shop license must be renewed every five years by local authority.

Yes there are lots of benefits, but damage will be there if proper restrictions on trade practices arent imposed.

regarding investment venumna woo pannuvingana - a person with strength always does that. he choses what to open what not to.

India sets the conditions for its defence purchase. All companies who participated in mmrca tender for 2+ yrs had to spend a lot of money in tests by india. There is 50% offset proposal. Then there is Transfer of technology issue.

So we dictate. Oil countries dictate oil pricing.

Similarly we have huge consumer base to offer and we shall dictate. If japan can decide terms for such retail conglomerates, the why not India?

Similarly we can also say if tirupur is hit by cotton export, why ban cotton export. guj farmes benefit, let tirupur go to dogs, who cares.

But we do impose restrictions right. Same happened in rice, onion export.

Therefore we reserve our right to set terms and woo in what we need.

I think the advantage may be introduction of frozen veggies,cold storage, and food processing factories to back this demand. many times we see tomatoes coming to 2 rs and farmers throwing them and destroying them.

These tomatoes could be purchased at reasonable prices to make soups and so on.

unfortunately such a thing could have been done by indian companies as well, but they never cared for such infra, as they just wanted to create a brand and wait patiently and offload when fdi is allowed to make a killing. from barathi to ambanis to biyanis all were waiting to offload and make a killing.

But these ones with deep pockets and trade, may also export such soup and food processed ones coming out of excess. While we have restruction on export of bannanas, tomatoes, onions sometimes, food processed ones may be allowed.

So there is an advantage and disadvantage. its upto govt to sit up and negate the disadv. trust this govt not to do it. thats my issue.

and when i used word kamba sutra tech, i knew excatly KT will say kambha sutra tech o kama sutra techo. i even paused at that time, thinking this could be kt reply. KT didnt disappoint.

Hmm KT and tea industry. clever fellow

“States can make their own call,” said Anand Sharma, the commerce minister. “Retail licences are given by the states and by the local authorities. Anyone who wants to open a hypermarket must get a licence from a local authority

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/dbc9f45e-177b-11e1-b20e-00144feabdc0.html?ftcamp=rss#axzz1encCvVJG


so there u go, the restriction is there and its upto ur local councillors and state govt to allow or not.

So thats good enough i guess. but local fellow will be licking as they sense opportunity

KT,

Ongaloda Chandai poda viraivil varugiren. Be Ready.

:horse:

looks there are restrictions, i had wanted. but the 33% rule must be implemented forcefully.

The attempts of lockheed martin and boeing with defence procurement policy offset clause and super ollakatti process is well reported.

its easy to monitor that, not this.

bharati-walmart, biyani with carrefour or japanese lawson, tata-tesco, videocon-best buy,

Developed countries are NOT happy about China's overwhelming trade balance and currency manuplation either. We have an opportunity to turn that to our advantage too.

Imbalance is mainly due to offshoring of manufacturing activities. let them move such production to India from China.

We all will be very happy.

Aha ilavarasare kalathula irangaruru polarku

Its a fallacy to think that the local lalas and businessmen are benevolent and the foreign MNCs are all East India companies. Both look for profits, atleast the foreign MNCs can be governed better and are more conscious of brand image in west than the local ones.
Many of the perishable goods do not see the customers or are supplied at end of lift due to poor infrastructure and supply chain which will only improve with the likes of walmart and target.

I am glad India is opening upto these retailers.

I am not scarring you... umabharathi and mamta will do it with their supporters :)

I sincerely hope BJP will pay a huge price for this obstructionist role they keep playing nowadays. At least the commies are faithful to their agenda (anti-Americanism, anti-privatization). But the BJP is making a mockery of everything they stand for. They call others pseudo-secularists, maybe it is time we started calling them pseudo-nationalists.

Uma Bharti should die of asphyxiation while burning some shop or the other.

I cannot believe there are so many people who still have massive inferiority complex about "American companies coming and gobbling up domestic players". These were precisely the fears voiced in 1991. :nuts: Today we all know how realistic those voices were. Simply fear mongering to keep their own vested interests happy. :ohno:

[QUOTE=N.kumar;86054136]
In fact when Reliance started their retail stores ,people opposed it so much. But today if reliance cannot kill local retail I dont understand how Foreign retail will do the same thing.

Annachi creditla maligai kuduppar which will never happen with these guys.


:)

I cannot believe there are so many people who still have massive inferiority complex about "American companies coming and gobbling up domestic players". These were precisely the fears voiced in 1991. :nuts: Today we all know how realistic those voices were. Simply fear mongering to keep their own vested interests happy. :ohno:
We can not simply copy & paste the economy model from u.s
Please understand the ground reality.
These big guys, Initially give everything at low price by bringing from other EAST ASIAN countries and will kill local production units.
Once local production units died, they will increase the higher price..
why we are paying higher cost to milk and food grains? because less production, more demand..
Already we are killing the Farmers and helping "Mallayas" in terms of "Global economy"
These Big Retailers will kill "Annachi", "settiyar" as well...
now Rice is 35/Kg...
after 8 yrs, it will sold for Rs 200/Kg....

summa blinda..we should not approve FDIs..

Walmart can work in u.s because there are tougher u.s laws..and executed.
In India, LAWS are just namesake..

:
I got another reason to hate this useless congress gvt... :lol:
super likes Arul...
If you look at it, Slowly "Westnism" is killing "Indianism" in the last 10 yrs....
Delhi Annai is mortgaging India to u.s and other "West" countries...
ithu neriya perukku puriya mattengudu...

Walmart can work in u.s because there are tougher u.s laws..and executed.
In India, LAWS are just namesake..

Agreed and this is the only thing that is scaring me.

But 50-60 maadi kattidathukku evacuation / safety plan ellam paper-la vechukittu permission kudukkarom. Emergency services response latchanatha (after Mumbai attacks) therinji vechikitte uyirodave risk edukkarom. Idhukku edukka mattoma? :lol:

Building-lendhu bus varikkum safety is secondary. uyir protectionayae mayir protection madiri treat pannurom. FDI varum bodhu mattum enna protection'nu oru scene-a kayilla edukkaranga?

We can not simply copy & paste the economy model from u.s
Please understand the ground reality.
These big guys, Initially give everything at low price by bringing from other EAST ASIAN countries and will kill local production units.
Once local production units died, they will increase the higher price..
why we are paying higher cost to milk and food grains? because less production, more demand..
Already we are killing the Farmers and helping "Mallayas" in terms of "Global economy"
These Big Retailers will kill "Annachi", "settiyar" as well...
now Rice is 35/Kg...
after 8 yrs, it will sold for Rs 200/Kg....

summa blinda..we should not approve FDIs..

Walmart can work in u.s because there are tougher u.s laws..and executed.
In India, LAWS are just namesake..

+1 These walmart like chain store has potential to kill following retail business

* Jewelry showrooms
* Uzhavar Sandhai and vegetable markets in the city
* Annachi kadai and every maligai kadai in the town/city/suburban
* Flower market
* Meat shops
* Stationary shops
* Wholesale trading units at Chennai, Coimbatore, Salem, Trichy and Madurai
* Logistics

KT sir solluvaru, everything will be organized, no one will loose job, cheap price, superb logistics etc., etc., But "ownership"???

Indian politicians are known for cheap mentality, vision, bribe, corruption etc., No wonder if they become sucess and have stores in every 1lakh pop town, then in 2100, Arakanas will judge the price index of retail sector and not New Delhi or Mumbai.:lol:

b/w above post konjam romba over hype thaan.:nuts:

Agreed and this is the only thing that is scaring me.

But 50-60 maadi kattidathukku ellam oru evacuation / safety plan ellam paper-la vechukittu, emergency services response latchanatha (after Mumbai attacks) therinji vechikitte uyirodave risk edukkarom. Idha edukka mattoma? :lol:
because there is no accountability on who has approved the designs...
one of the southern sub-urban commissioner got 7 lakhs as lanjam for just to process the property tax...(as per law)...from the big apartment community
Imagine OMR sub-urb commissioner's financial strength...

Imbalance is mainly due to offshoring of manufacturing activities. let them move such production to India from China.

We all will be very happy.

And how precisely is that going to happen till a trust is established?

We can not simply copy & paste the economy model from u.s
Please understand the ground reality.
These big guys, Initially give everything at low price by bringing from other EAST ASIAN countries and will kill local production units.
Once local production units died, they will increase the higher price..
why we are paying higher cost to milk and food grains? because less production, more demand..
Already we are killing the Farmers and helping "Mallayas" in terms of "Global economy"
These Big Retailers will kill "Annachi", "settiyar" as well...
now Rice is 35/Kg...
after 8 yrs, it will sold for Rs 200/Kg....

summa blinda..we should not approve FDIs..

Walmart can work in u.s because there are tougher u.s laws..and executed.
In India, LAWS are just namesake..

All a load of baseless scaremongering.

Yes, we should not copy and paste the economic model from anywhere. And we aren't doing that, we can't do that, because it is just not possible.

Have you been to the US? What is the "model" they follow? People drive cars there. They drive cars to the target/wal-mart in the suburb, load their car with goods and drive back. You tell me, how is this "model" possible in India?

Even a middle class car-owning guy like me will not drive out 5 -8 km outside the city to fill my car with supplies and lug it back home. I might do it once in a while, just as an outing, but there is no way I will do it regularly. And how many people actually own a car in the first place?

When Reliance Fresh, Big Bazaar and Subiksha couldn't "kill the corner store", there is no way any other players will be able to.

This is exactly the same argument we heard in 1991. Oooh, Indian industries will be "killed" by these multinationals, they will cunningly underprice products first, and then they will gradually phase everyone out and take control of our economy.... basically a whole lot of scaremongering. Today we know that that was a pile of horse manure. What actually happened? India came up with its own firms, and everyone was a winner in the end.

Time will prove me right - you will look back on these posts with embarrassment one year down the line.

KT sir solluvaru, everything will be organized, no one will loose job, cheap price, superb logistics etc., etc., But "ownership"???

What ownership are you talking about? Annachi will lose ownership (if he don't compete well). But companies won't. Arul mark perungayam will still be sold in the brand name of Arul mark perungayam and Wal*Mart won't rename it to their brand.

If you are talking about farmers or producers ownership, they don't have one today anyways

We can not simply copy & paste the economy model from u.s.

Even walmart doesn't follow same big-box format everywhere in US. When TESCO entered western US market (Phoenix) few years back, WM was forced to reformat to cash and carry store model in their own home-turf to survive.

Been to AR? There you have neighborhood market format.

Companies will have vested interest in deciding the model. They for sure know that US model will not work in India. They might test that format out at few places, but for most part they will adapt

What ownership are you talking about? Annachi will lose ownership (if he don't compete well).

Unless and otherwise caste is going to be eradicated from TN "Annachi" is not going to lose his ownership :lol: and the FDI that you were discussing in the last few pages is not going to happen :lol:

What ownership are you talking about? Annachi will lose ownership (if he don't compete well). But companies won't. Arul mark perungayam will still be sold in the brand name of Arul mark perungayam and Wal*Mart won't rename it to their brand.

If you are talking about farmers or producers ownership, they don't have one today anyways

Arul mark perungayam ellam illai, Arul mark Appalam irukku, venumna courier pannuraen.:)

ennakku puriyuthu neenga yaen annachi mela ivalo kovam paduringanu...:lol:

b/w I am talking about tens of thousands of farmers selling vegetable/flowers/frutis directly

ownership of logistics

ownership of middle men too

shop ownership.

Intha ownership ellam abolish pannitu only one ownership America will be there. Now everything above is completely small scale business! In no time big company can invest and change the logistics to their ownership.

100 shops will be replaced by one walmart. One ownership and all other 100 will become salaried person!

This is exactly the same argument we heard in 1991. Oooh, Indian industries will be "killed" by these multinationals, they will cunningly underprice products first, and then they will gradually phase everyone out and take control of our economy.... basically a whole lot of scaremongering. Today we know that that was a pile of horse manure. What actually happened? India came up with its own firms, and everyone was a winner in the end.

+1.

Friends,
Please watch People's Debate on koodankulam tonight 9:30 pm IST at Puthiya thalaimurai.tv

Unless and otherwise caste is going to be eradicated from TN "Annachi" is not going to lose his ownership :lol: and the FDI that you were discussing in the last few pages is not going to happen :lol:

Another good point.

I still have strong belief that this FDI will not affect TN retail business. Infrastructure wise bigger chain stores are not suitable for us.

We don't have any concept of Square, walking streets with chain of malls, super markets, branded stores, food plaza etc., in the city center. China copied this from U.S and it was sucessful with their own big super stores, later walmart entered.

Our clothing and Jewelry retail is located in one area, daily consumable are available in door steps. This is the case with many cities/towns. Even Chennai metrocity can be seen as 10 trichy or salem fitted inside! And we cannot copy the above concept like how China copied from U.S because of lack of infrastructure.

Intha ownership ellam abolish pannitu only one ownership America will be there. Now everything above is completely small scale business! In no time big company can invest and change the logistics to their ownership.

100 shops will be replaced by one walmart. One ownership and all other 100 will become salaried person!

yeah yeah, Textile industries replaced Gandhi's kadhar raatinam and hand-weavers and so many raatinam owners lost their ownership. They used their cycles, maatuvandi's and their own two legs as mode of transportation to cater to their local consuption. Evil textile industries replaced them with motorized vehicles. So let's burn all the evil textile mills.

Computers came in and replaced the need for clerical jobs. Clerks lost their ownership over the job they used to do. Throw computers into Bay of Bengal.

PS> I know my logic is far-fetched, but I couldn't think of better example to counter the fear-mongering that America will conquer India through walmart :)

Have you been to the US? What is the "model" they follow? People drive cars there. They drive cars to the target/wal-mart in the suburb, load their car with goods and drive back. You tell me, how is this "model" possible in India?

Even a middle class car-owning guy like me will not drive out 5 -8 km outside the city to fill my car with supplies and lug it back home. I might do it once in a while, just as an outing, but there is no way I will do it regularly. And how many people actually own a car in the first place?

When Reliance Fresh, Big Bazaar and Subiksha couldn't "kill the corner store", there is no way any other players will be able to.

This is exactly the same argument we heard in 1991. Oooh, Indian industries will be "killed" by these multinationals, they will cunningly underprice products first, and then they will gradually phase everyone out and take control of our economy.... basically a whole lot of scaremongering. Today we know that that was a pile of horse manure. What actually happened? India came up with its own firms, and everyone was a winner in the end.

Time will prove me right - you will look back on these posts with embarrassment one year down the line.
Sir,
I live in u.s for 4 yrs, in different states..soon to explore the new State..
I agree with you that shopping in India is not easy.. but why you need that?
Here in u.s, wayback in 1920'2, Car makers gave pressure to Govt and killed the public transport. So u.s, built huge infrastructure to cater Road transport,particularly Cars and trucks..
India, small country and we can not say " I will go to market in CAR only and buy 1 kg of tomato".. people will laugh at you..
India, densely populated and we have every shops within 5 to 10 mins(in city)..only Schools are not nearby :ohno:

1991 Economic reform's result is , you and me feel the pinch of Inflation...
Govt is supporting those Heavyweights and not the public...

we might be good in creating Policy,, but poor in implementation...
Even the new roads are not lasting for 1 rain.. how do you expect Govt will protect small retailers and local farmers from These Biggies?

Subikha does not have money.. whereas Walmart will have money..so they can survive and import everything at low cost to kill local markets.
have you seen the quality of reliance fresh?
When lived in chennai, we went for Reliance Fresh for few times...
Vegetables are of poor quality
we moved from Reliance Fresh to our local markets..Atleast we can have Fresh Vegetables....and go once in 2-3 days..
Even in u.s, we are buying from Farmer's market which is more fresh than "Walmart"

hm..there is a proverb
"நிழலோட அருமை வெயிலில் தெரியும்"
most of the people does not understand the importance of local markets.
your son will feel it..

yeah yeah, Textile industries replaced Gandhi's kadhar raatinam and hand-weavers and so many raatinam owners lost their ownership. They used their cycles, maatuvandi's and their own two legs as mode of transportation to cater to their local consuption. Evil textile industries replaced them with motorized vehicles. So let's burn all the evil textile mills.

Computers came in and replaced the need for clerical jobs. Clerks lost their ownership over the job they used to do. Throw computers into Bay of Bengal.

PS> I know my logic is far-fetched, but I couldn't think of better example to counter the fear-mongering that America will conquer India through walmart :)

Ithu enna logic...

MNC retails are high speed trains and Indian retails ellam passenger trainu sollura mathiri irukku.

Neenga sollura partha, Indian retail unit is like everyone is drinking only pourage, MNC retail is going to serve ghee rice ingarmathiri illai irukku.

You have hijacked the discussion to different height with this logic!

b.w Kannan sir unga kiita sandaiku varuvaru, here after for us :popcorn::popcorn:

India, small country and we can not say " I will go to market in CAR only and buy 1 kg of tomato".. people will laugh at you..
India, densely populated and we have every shops within 5 to 10 mins(in city)..only Schools are not nearby

I feel this is the reason why stores like Walmart won't succeed in replacing these mom and pop stores in India. The same kind of arguments were made when Reliance n others came into retail business but in reality they are the ones who could not take on the competition from 'Annachi' type stores and closed down many shops.. So, why prevent and oppose investments from outside especially when many riders are put to develop the back-end infra?
Plz don't underestimate the knowledge and skills of the local Annachi shops. They are some of the astute businessmen u will see and will surely adapt with many new innovative concepts which would ultimately benefit the consumer and the industry as a whole.

And to those cynics, plz read the riders put by the Govt on the investors. A lot of SME's will benefit immensely which would create much needed jobs in our country. I feel this is a much needed reform in India which should really usher in reforms in Agri & Agri-based sector in the long run. Of course, as many said, don't expect results overnight. These things take time..

yeah yeah, Textile industries replaced Gandhi's kadhar raatinam and hand-weavers and so many raatinam owners lost their ownership. They used their cycles, maatuvandi's and their own two legs as mode of transportation to cater to their local consuption. Evil textile industries replaced them with motorized vehicles. So let's burn all the evil textile mills.

Computers came in and replaced the need for clerical jobs. Clerks lost their ownership over the job they used to do. Throw computers into Bay of Bengal.

PS> I know my logic is far-fetched, but I couldn't think of better example to counter the fear-mongering that America will conquer India through walmart :)
Come on Sir, you can not apply the same logic to all and that is baseless.
"yaanai kku arram na, kutharaikku kurram " nu solla koodathu..
there is a industrial revolution, Green Revolution...
industrial revolution was successful only it supported Green Revolution..
you know how big Retail works?
3 yrs back, we tried to do business with Reliance to supply Bananas, from Theni side.. We call those fruits as "Mala pazham".
Reliance asked us at supply huge quantity at low price. Also, they told payments will be after 60 days.
That was not workable, since Theni farmers asked us to pay the money upfront...Even when we ready to invest, there were not sufficient quantity...
Reliance simply went on to get it from "other" East Asian markets...
this is just sample...Please look at "Producer" perspective..
Even the Reliance is not ready to buy items in smaller quantities, in periodic manner.
Am sure, Walmart will expect high quantities(at low price) for their margin. We will not be able to provide that much high quantity at single point of time. So they will easily move to "other" options..
Still my uncles are doing agriculture in our native villages..
WE will not be able to provide "huge" qunatity at a time. But we can provide the supplies periodically.. that is the way, India is...
this strategy will not work out for Huge Retailers...

Hope this will clarify...

Industrialization & Retailing are 2 different entities.. should not be compared.

[QUOTE=murlee;86062795So, why prevent and oppose investments from outside especially when many riders are put to develop the back-end infra? [/QUOTE]
Even, we are unable to provide sufficient Infra for Industrialization.
Still Chennai Auto manufacturing companies struggles to have a 4 lane road or railway line..
then how in the world, we are going to provide infrastructure for Retail industries?

UPA will get money from these retailers, deposit in tax heavens, sit in AC room and will talk..
At the end of the day, those Retail Industry will kill us with exorbitant price due to high cost on Infra...

sending Cotton to Gujarat is much more expensive than sending to China

I don't get ur argument. We are struggling to have a railway line to Sriperumbudhur coz IR is involved.. The back-end infra in this case will not involve govt or govt agencies except while monitoring. All those cold storage units, logistics, etc will be done by the investor and NOT GOVERNMENT.

At the end of the day, those Retail Industry will kill us with exorbitant price due to high cost on Infra...

And by this line, u mean to say the prices in such MNC stores will be high.. Won't this benefit the 'Annachi' stores coz he doesn't have a AC store or build huge back end infra etc etc and thus would see profits selling at a lower price than the 'Walmarts'??

A Annachi shop at my doorstep which sells at a lower cost than Walmart will seal the fate of Walmart.. So, no way are they gonna increase the prices exorbitantly.. Infact, I see prices coming down which would go a long way in bringing down inflation in the long term.

RBI chief: FDI in retail will reduce inflation (http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2011-11-25/news/30441090_1_fdi-in-multi-brand-multi-brand-food-inflation)

yeah yeah, Textile industries replaced Gandhi's kadhar raatinam and hand-weavers and so many raatinam owners lost their ownership. They used their cycles, maatuvandi's and their own two legs as mode of transportation to cater to their local consuption. Evil textile industries replaced them with motorized vehicles. So let's burn all the evil textile mills.
Sir,
Even in those days, quality of Life is very good..
People have sufficient earnings, they have time to participate social events..
time to discuss on Society also(Arattai arangam..)
do we have that?
our parents have time to take care of their professional commitments, as well as take care of their children.. they have time to sit with us, teach us the lessons, take us to excursions, explain various things..

but nowadays, we are running to save money, money, money to tackle inflation.. so we are not sitting with our children to teach them...
just sending them to tutions...
morning music class, karate class, evening swimming class, maths tution, weekend cricket coaching..

in those days, mother used to teach music to kids, father used to teach "tharkappu" kalaigal, swimming, maths....

A Annachi shop at my doorstep which sells at a lower cost than Walmart will seal the fate of Walmart.. So, no way are they gonna increase the prices exorbitantly.. Infact, I see prices coming down which would go a long way in bringing down inflation in the long term.

RBI chief: FDI in retail will reduce inflation (http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2011-11-25/news/30441090_1_fdi-in-multi-brand-multi-brand-food-inflation)
To promote "Wal mart" UPA Govt will ensure that "Annachi"s are killed first before Walmart enters...
If the Govt is really wanted to help the consumers, they can do 2important thing...
1. Improve Productivity and ensure that those products reach us at low cost..
3. reduce middle men...(like me..I bought from farmers and sell it to retailers...
for 1 dozen/Rs 2 is my profit....i need to supply 2 lakh dozen fruits/month.
so 4 lakhs easily i makes profit.. i am neither producer, nor a seller)...

The same kind of arguments were made when Reliance n others came into retail business but in reality they are the ones who could not take on the competition from 'Annachi' type stores and closed down many shops...

Reliance failed to adapt to local market. They had a business template and tried to execute it across India (Refer to Krishna's vazhai pazham post above).

On the other hand take Kannan departmental stores for example. (Will refer it as KDS in future). Conceptwise it is similar to Reliance fresh, but their business template and strategy is highly localized. I am sure even if they move to North, they will succeed because their strategy is no one-size-fits-all strategy.

Taking CBE as example, 2 KDS in saibaba colony area (one each in NSR Road and SB kovil) wiped out 70% of annachi shops in that area from 10 years back. The one in RamNagar, cross-cut road wiped out nearly 50% of smaller shops in that area.

Few biggies and unique/focused service based shops still exists in NSR road and X-cut road. However like I said they were forced to bring in something unique to the table to attract customers. Ask any suppliers dealing with KDS (I can refer quite a bunch). They all have better experience dealing with KDS compared to annachi's. KDS has nicely blended western strategy to cater to local market. IMO they hit the sweet-spot.

Coming back to FDI retailers, with money at their disposal I think they will be able to replicate localized KDS model. Their big challenge will be the competition that they face from the supermarkets like Nilgiris and KDS's rather than annachis.

@ krishnaswamy Sir

I see you are against this move just because u expect corruption and crony capitalism from the political class and not because you are against the entrance of MNC retailers in India, per se. Am I right?

Sir,
Even in those days, quality of Life is very good..
People have sufficient earnings, they have time to participate social events..
time to discuss on Society also(Arattai arangam..)
do we have that?
our parents have time to take care of their professional commitments, as well as take care of their children.. they have time to sit with us, teach us the lessons, take us to excursions, explain various things..

but nowadays, we are running to save money, money, money to tackle inflation.. so we are not sitting with our children to teach them...
just sending them to tutions...
morning music class, karate class, evening swimming class, maths tution, weekend cricket coaching..

in those days, mother used to teach music to kids, father used to teach "tharkappu" kalaigal, swimming, maths....

Based on your posts, I can say that you are trying to convince the readers of this page that the 'good old times' were awesome, and liberalization is all bunkum. :nuts:

The hundreds and thousands of people who have been pulled out of poverty won't agree with you. This whole thought process on the lines of "good old days have been destroyed" is mainly indulged in by middle aged/senior citizens from a certain strata of society. The reality is that that strata of society had gotten used to cornering all benefits for themselves, and living in a sea of poverty around them.

Thanks but no thanks - most sensible people in the country hail liberalization and the associated benefits.

To promote "Wal mart" UPA Govt will ensure that "Annachi"s are killed first before Walmart enters...
If the Govt is really wanted to help the consumers, they can do 2important thing...
1. Improve Productivity and ensure that those products reach us at low cost..
3. reduce middle men...(like me..I bought from farmers and sell it to retailers...
for 1 fruit, Rs 2 is my profit....i need to supply 2 lakh fruits/month.
so 4 lakhs easily i makes profit.. i am neither producer, nor a seller)...

All empty talk. "Should do this, should do that" is very easy to say. :bash:
Why even talk about it in that detail? Let us just say, "The government should finish off poverty" and finish off the matter. :laugh:

EDIT: and do enlighten me, how will UPA "ensure that Anachis are killed first"? Gas chambers maybe? :lol: If the people continue to patronize the "Anachis", there is no question of their "death". And India has enough room for the corner store AND the wal-marts. No kidding. With the rate of growth that we have and the size of the economy, there is enough room for everyone.

The FDI in retail will do exactly what you are talking about. No middlemen, direct from "farm to fork". Improvement of productivity in logistics, distribution and the overall supply chain comes along with it.

Anyway, the discussions on this page indicate one important thing: many Indians have still not got over the inferiority complex of being "lesser and weaker" than the West, and paranoid about being "eaten up" by evil America. I wonder when Indians will get the self confidence in their own people and their own brands and businesses! :ohno: Frankly, it is very disappointing to see such widespread inferiority complex and 1980s type fear even when we are a powerhouse economy. :bash:

Interview by ANAND SHARMA on FDI in Retail

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/fdi-in-retail-will-benefit-farmers-consumers-anand-sharma/216962

many Indians have still not got over the inferiority complex of being "lesser and weaker" than the West, and paranoid about being "eaten up" by evil America. I wonder when Indians will get the self confidence in their own people and their own brands and businesses! Frankly, it is very disappointing to see such widespread inferiority complex and 1980s type fear even when we are a powerhouse economy.

+1

Dunno why we think our businessmen won't be able to compete with the West when we have many Indian CEOs and top executives heading corporations in the West.

+1

Dunno why we think our businessmen won't be able to compete with the West when we have many Indian CEOs and top executives heading corporations in the West.
ha..ha...
Businessmen will compete and live longer...
common people will pinch of salt...
for Ambani & Tata, how the increase in milk price is going to matter?
its common public right?

ha..ha...
Businessmen will compete and live longer...
common people will pinch of salt...
for Ambani & Tata, how the increase in milk price is going to matter?
its common public right?

Sir, I seriously don't get you.

I made an argument that coming of Foreign retailers will reduce the cost of products to consumers. U didn't put a counter point to that. And again, u say the prices will rise!

FYKI, I belong to that common public too, so I am as affected as u or anyone else here by these decisions.

Plz see the interview by Anand Sharma so that we understand what the govt is trying to do.

^^particularly when seen in the light of similar fears raised during the dismantling of License Raj which provided false subsequently.

KT is on a roll in this topic. His 'uyir/mayir' example was very entertaining.

Based on your posts, I can say that you are trying to convince the readers of this page that the 'good old times' were awesome, and liberalization is all bunkum. :nuts:

The hundreds and thousands of people who have been pulled out of poverty won't agree with you. This whole thought process on the lines of "good old days have been destroyed" is mainly indulged in by middle aged/senior citizens from a certain strata of society. The reality is that that strata of society had gotten used to cornering all benefits for themselves, and living in a sea of poverty around them.

Thanks but no thanks - most sensible people in the country hail liberalization and the associated benefits.



All empty talk. "Should do this, should do that" is very easy to say. :bash:
Why even talk about it in that detail? Let us just say, "The government should finish off poverty" and finish off the matter. :laugh:

EDIT: and do enlighten me, how will UPA "ensure that Anachis are killed first"? Gas chambers maybe? :lol: If the people continue to patronize the "Anachis", there is no question of their "death". And India has enough room for the corner store AND the wal-marts. No kidding. With the rate of growth that we have and the size of the economy, there is enough room for everyone.

The FDI in retail will do exactly what you are talking about. No middlemen, direct from "farm to fork". Improvement of productivity in logistics, distribution and the overall supply chain comes along with it.

Anyway, the discussions on this page indicate one important thing: many Indians have still not got over the inferiority complex of being "lesser and weaker" than the West, and paranoid about being "eaten up" by evil America. I wonder when Indians will get the self confidence in their own people and their own brands and businesses! :ohno: Frankly, it is very disappointing to see such widespread inferiority complex and 1980s type fear even when we are a powerhouse economy. :bash:
Sir, i meant the Quality of life..
if you count, your quality of life is only by buying washing machines, LED TVs, Buying Honda car.. then probably "yes".. industrialization has done good..
but to me, Quality of life is...
how much time, i am spending time with my family, relations, how i am involved in my society....
you are saying I can sent my son to "tution" class with my money..
I am saying that i can teach my son at home very well and will improve other human factors...

I am not against Retailers.. i am against "FDI" retailers..
what my question is why cant UPA provide good facilities/infra to those Annachis, Farmers to sell their product at low cost?
why they want to bring in foreign money here and kills the local people?
What is their motive...
Remember what happen to Aviation sector? they did not give adequate support and failed to protect proper guideness to Aviation sector..
so they are about to die and now "FDI" will be allowed.
they are doing the same thing with "Farmers" and "Annachi" to kill them and FDI..
our government is not run by Indian...but by a Italian Proxy...

if they really care, why dont they provide good infra structure to our local Annachi's so that they can set up their shops Big with "adequate" parking facilities so that "dum" software guy can shopping of 1kg tomato in a Honda car?

Sir, I seriously don't get you.

I made an argument that coming of Foreign retailers will reduce the cost of products to consumers. U didn't put a counter point to that. And again, u say the prices will rise!

FYKI, I belong to that common public too, so I am as affected as u or anyone else here by these decisions.

Plz see the interview by Anand Sharma so that we understand what the govt is trying to do.
KT.. you believe this guy Anand sharma? he is proxy to Italin's Proxy...have you ever listened to his earlier debates when he was spokeperson for Congress in UPA 1?
Any new business guy, initially will give products at low cost ..only to capture market..
Earlier, i have clearly told.. first 3 to 4 yrs, they can give at low cost..by importing from Abroad...
this is a slow poison to local producers and eventually they will die..
why UPA is not increasing agri lands, agri products or milk products? why they are bringing FDI investments? these FDI investments can import from other and kill local producers.
then India needs to depend only on imports and that time, they show their real face....
everybody knows nattu sarkarai is good for health.. but Govt promoted artifical sugar which is not as good as nattu sarkarai..
so nowadays, it is very rare to get nattu sarkarai, but every where it is artifical TV...

Earlier, we used to get Fresh Cow milk in our door steps..
now we are getting 2 to 3 days old milk, stored, and supplied..
WE used to have "organic" cultivation. Due to WEST pressure, we want for artificial manures and people forget about their originality.
now artificial manures are costly and farmers are moving out of cultivation.
need much more examples?
Govt promoted businessmen for Telecom. Now they are blackmailing Govt's move on bringing down 3G Roaming cost..why, their profits will be hit..
This is the effect of "FDI"
My Final word is
No FDI in Retail. But provide them good infra to encourage local "Annachi" and Farmers.
.

Sir, i meant the Quality of life..
if you count, your quality of life is only by buying washing machines, LED TVs, Buying Honda car.. then probably "yes".. industrialization has done good..
but to me, Quality of life is...
how much time, i am spending time with my family, relations, how i am involved in my society....
you are saying I can sent my son to "tution" class with my money..
I am saying that i can teach my son at home very well and will improve other human factors...

I am not against Retailers.. i am against "FDI" retailers..
what my question is why cant UPA provide good facilities/infra to those Annachis, Farmers to sell their product at low cost?
why they want to bring in foreign money here and kills the local people?
What is their motive...
Remember what happen to Aviation sector? they did not give adequate support and failed to protect proper guideness to Aviation sector..
so they are about to die and now "FDI" will be allowed.
they are doing the same thing with "Farmers" and "Annachi" to kill them and FDI..
our government is not run by Indian...but by a Italian Proxy...

if they really care, why dont they provide good infra structure to our local Annachi's so that they can set up their shops Big with "adequate" parking facilities so that "dum" software guy can shopping of 1kg tomato in a Honda car?

LOL - even after the experience of 60+ years you are talking about "government should do this, government should do that"!!! :nuts:

We never learn our lessons, do we?

Haven't we realized by now, that the state cannot even scratch its arse properly? Let alone do all the stuff you are asking for?!

And why should the government provide parking and infrastructure to the "Anachis"? Why should I let them do that? I will protest if there is any move towards that. Let them make parking space for my cars first, then I will allow them to proceed.

When the very basics of liberalization and privatization are being challenged here, it becomes a problem. People of your strata of society can afford to talk of luxuries like "spending time with your children, relations, etc." . The vast majority have much bigger concerns than that.

And anyway if you are worried about spending time with your relations, you can take an easy government job in some local government department. No one is asking you to take some hectic job in some hi-fi private firm.

And anyway if you are worried about spending time with your relations, you can take an easy government job in some local government department. No one is asking you to take some hectic job in some hi-fi private firm.
so you agree, these "hi-fi" private companies make us to work longer, like donkeys, forget our real values and run behind the paper notes..

KT.. you believe this guy Anand sharma? he is proxy to Italin's Proxy...have you ever listened to his earlier debates when he was spokeperson for Congress in UPA 1?
Any new business guy, initially will give products at low cost ..only to capture market..
Earlier, i have clearly told.. first 3 to 4 yrs, they can give at low cost..by importing from Abroad...
this is a slow poison to local producers and eventually they will die..
why UPA is not increasing agri lands, agri products or milk products? why they are bringing FDI investments? these FDI investments can import from other and kill local producers.
then India needs to depend only on imports and that time, they show their real face....
everybody knows nattu sarkarai is good for health.. but Govt promoted artifical sugar which is not as good as nattu sarkarai..
so nowadays, it is very rare to get nattu sarkarai, but every where it is artifical TV...

Earlier, we used to get Fresh Cow milk in our door steps..
now we are getting 2 to 3 days old milk, stored, and supplied..
WE used to have "organic" cultivation. Due to WEST pressure, we want for artificial manures and people forget about their originality.
now artificial manures are costly and farmers are moving out of cultivation.
need much more examples?
Govt promoted businessmen for Telecom. Now they are blackmailing Govt's move on bringing down 3G Roaming cost..why, their profits will be hit..
This is the effect of "FDI"
My Final word is
No FDI in Retail. But provide them good infra to encourage local "Annachi" and Farmers.
.

U seem to be bitten by the 'Italian bug'.. :lol: See, what I see is not the man but the words of the man. I believe in my ability to analyse what a person is saying and decide for myself whether his words make sense or he is just goofing around.

My point is, I am not believing Anand Sharma or any other guy but my own ability to interpret the pros n cons of any debate!

And just another question.. I am curious.. R u happy when companies like Hyundai, ford, BMW etc invested in Chennai?? By your arguments, I feel u must be against those things too.. U would expect Our 'GOVERNMENT' to encourage locals or set up infra so that our locals would produce their own products in auto industry too..
Why rely on FDI??

LOL - even after the experience of 60+ years you are talking about "government should do this, government should do that"!!! :nuts:

We never learn our lessons, do we?

Haven't we realized by now, that the state cannot even scratch its arse properly? Let alone do all the stuff you are asking for?!
if there is less corruption, we can sustain on our own...
why in the world, we need to give 40k to corporation officer for getting metro water connection?
why we need to give 35k for drainage facilities?

any infra project that can be done in 200 crore is escalated to 800 crore because of vattam, maavattam, amaichar, commissioner..



And why should the government provide parking and infrastructure to the "Anachis"? Why should I let them do that? I will protest if there is any move towards that. Let them make parking space for my cars first, then I will allow them to proceed.
because for the "hi-fi" dum sotware guy to go and buy 1kg of tomato in his Honda car..:lol: also he shouts increase in petrol prize kills him..

so you agree, these "hi-fi" private companies make us to work longer, like donkeys, forget our real values and run behind the paper notes..

I think that is based on the individual.. Lets not pre-judge some job or some person based on our own prejudices and philosophical proclivities!

I assume u are socialistic and fan of Nehru's ideology. Expecting Govt to do everything...

if there is less corruption, we can sustain on our own...
why in the world, we need to give 40k to corporation officer for getting metro water connection?
why we need to give 35k for drainage facilities?

any infra project that can be done in 200 crore is escalated to 800 crore because of vattam, maavattam, amaichar, commissioner..




Pardon my innocence, but What is the relation of these points u made with the topic we are discussing??

Ivangalukku kappam kettuna FDI enna etha venaallum allow pannuvanga



Source give in the pic itself


http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/8225/piratess.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/593/piratess.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

I think that is based on the individual.. Lets not pre-judge some job or some person based on our own prejudices and philosophical proclivities!

I assume u are socialistic and fan of Nehru's ideology. Expecting Govt to do everything...
No.. i am not expecting Govt to do everything...am Expecting Govt to do " what it should do"
it has to create policy, do a controller role so that it benefits people..
currently this govt encourages few people to live, t encourages businessmen, middlemen...
not benefiting end consumers, producers..

Pardon my innocence, but What is the relation of these points u made with the topic we are discussing??
am saying this motive of "FDI" is just for UPA benefits to increase their bank balance in tax heavens....and nothing else..
IF they have good motive, they can facilitate everything for local Annachi's and farmers.
This "FDI" in "Retail" is useless with heavy corrupt oozhal peruchalies exist in our Govt..

Mr. Nellai explained in 1 Word what i am trying for the last 2 hrs...

Thanks Nellai..
1 picture explains everything.. and hope it conveys the message to others on this useless "FDI" policy Ivangalukku kappam kettuna FDI enna etha venaallum allow pannuvanga



Source give in the pic itself


http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/8225/piratess.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/593/piratess.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

And just another question.. I am curious.. R u happy when companies like Hyundai, ford, BMW etc invested in Chennai?? By your arguments, I feel u must be against those things too.. U would expect Our 'GOVERNMENT' to encourage locals or set up infra so that our locals would produce their own products in auto industry too..
Why rely on FDI??

Read Krishna's earlier post. That is industrialization and retail is not. The problem is with the fundamental thinking. I am neither saying that his thinking is flawed nor saying that this is correct. Just stating his school of taught that's all (On a different note, I have debated with people who even think "services" as not an industry). And my school of taught is exactly opposite to what he thinks and that's why so much debate :)

@krishna

FYI, retailing today is called as "Retail Industry". I am wondering what your views are on services sector. Do you consider that as extended part of industrialization?

I assume u are socialistic and fan of Nehru's ideology. Expecting Govt to do everything...
Also please ref this post.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=86022546&postcount=3382

Also please ref this post.
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=86022546&postcount=3382

Did I ever say govt shouldn't do anything?? If u had seen my posts here before, I have always said Govt should concentrate on providing basic infra facilities especially education, health, basic living facilities etc..

My point is, I am repeating this,.. U can't expect govt to do everything!

Read Krishna's earlier post. That is industrialization and retail is not. The problem is with the fundamental thinking. I am neither saying that his thinking is flawed nor saying that this is correct. Just stating his school of taught that's all (On a different note, I have debated with people who even think "services" as not an industry). And my school of taught is exactly opposite to what he thinks and that's why so much debate :)

@krishna

FYI, retailing today is called as "Retail Industry". I am wondering what your views are on services sector. Do you consider that as extended part of industrialization?
KT, Murlee,
I agree "Services" also type of industry..
sorry its my bad that i did not put it clearly that i oppose "Retail Industry".

I am opposing any industries that is going to kill the local production....particularly food, shelter, dress
Hyundai, Ford are manufacturing industries and not going to kill the local production. They came here because we have good talented resources.So these kind of industries are welcome.
Please dont say that Hyundai, ford kills the people who prepare "kadaiyani" or bullock carts...I still feel bullock cart should be there and should be used by villagers to reach their paddy fields...
In u.s you can get "organic" milk and we are buying that..
in India, there is no "organic" because no organic grass at all..

After "FDI" in Retail, we sell our lands for Real estate, lakes will became plots..Already Chennai OMR upto Pondy, upto SRPDR on other side..... no cultivable lands..
Even in Delta(thanjavur-kumbakonam road from thanjavur to Palliagraharam), all the cultivable land became real estate plots....
people are selling their lands to real estate companies to build "River View" Resorts...
because no use of agriculture lands and we will get everything for cheaper (only for few years) from these "FDI" gundas..

once paddy fields, cow, lakes can be seen in only in pictures, these Retail companies will show their real Face..
appo :wallbash::wallbash::wallbash::wallbash:

Read Krishna's earlier post. That is industrialization and retail is not. The problem is with the fundamental thinking. I am neither saying that his thinking is flawed nor saying that this is correct. Just stating his school of taught that's all (On a different note, I have debated with people who even think "services" as not an industry). And my school of taught is exactly opposite to what he thinks and that's why so much debate :)



:yes:

..
On the other hand take Kannan departmental stores for example. (Will refer it as KDS in future). Conceptwise it is similar to Reliance fresh, but their business template and strategy is highly localized. I am sure even if they move to North, they will succeed because their strategy is no one-size-fits-all strategy.

Funny that you bring out KDS, its the one hell of experience to shop there with their scattered on the floor items, and need to make a bill where its checked and double checked and then another line to pay.
If Walmart takes them out, I would be glad.

BTW Spar in the mall is doing brisk business.

Reposting it just because of its such a poignant statement about our state.


Ivangalukku kappam kettuna FDI enna etha venaallum allow pannuvanga



Source give in the pic itself


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KT, Murlee,
I am opposing any industries that is going to kill the local production....particularly food, shelter, dress
Hyundai, Ford are manufacturing industries and not going to kill the local production. They came here because we have good talented resources.
So these kind of industries are welcome.


Don't u think Hindustan Motors and their famous product 'Ambassador' suffered due to foreign companies??

Don't u feel that if such companies had not come, Ambassador would be in demand everywhere thus increasing local production??

After "FDI" in Retail, we sell our lands for Real estate, lakes will became plots..
because no use of agriculture lands and we will get everything for cheaper (only for few years)_
once paddy fields, cow, lakes can be seen in pictures, these Retail companies will show their real Face..
appo

:lol:

As if things u mentioned are not happening already?? As if only when FDI in retail comes, all lakes and agri lands would be turned into real estate and before they come, all these lands are flourishing!!

Plus, these MNC retail stores are allowed only in 53 cities and I think mostly they will take shop in the many upcoming malls in many cities. And Why would they set up shops near lakes and agri lands outside cities where no customer would be around?

And plz see and read the various farmer organizations coming in support of this decision. I think they would know better than u or me!

Funny that you bring out KDS, its the one hell of experience to shop there with their scattered on the floor items, and need to make a bill where its checked and double checked and then another line to pay.
If Walmart takes them out, I would be glad.

BTW Spar in the mall is doing brisk business.

I agree that Ramnagar one is becoming like saravana stores :)

I was talking about the one in NSR road (Siva-sakthi theatre which they converted to KDS). When I was in India, I think it was 6 months old. Everything neatly organized and too many employees were there at your service and answer questions. I was even surprised to find beauty advisors (knowledgeable ones) like you would find at Walgreens and CVS here in US for Himalaya products both there and in Nilgiris.

Of-course they employed child labor at that time and heard action is taken and is better now.

Don't u think Hindustan Motors and their famous product 'Ambassador' suffered due to foreign companies??

Don't u feel that if such companies had not come, Ambassador would be in demand everywhere thus increasing local production??

:lol:
thanks for bringing Ambassador case..
believe me, still lot of people in Delta prefer Ambassador....
6 people can sit easily, carry as much as luggages...
It may not have great pick up speed, but still it is cheaper, fuel economy and strong compare to other cars...
They did not market as like others..
also it was killed by Rajiv Gandhi and Maruti was given all promotions.
Had Ambassador, increased their designs and marketing skills, still it would have been lived..they themselves killed or made to be killed due to Foreign
:lol:


As if things u mentioned are not happening already?? As if only when FDI in retail comes, all lakes and agri lands would be turned into real estate and before they come, all these lands are flourishing!!

this is what i am telling.. Already we are killing slow poison. Dont kill it fast..
try to bring the farmers life..

Plus, these MNC retail stores are allowed only in 53 cities and I think mostly they will take shop in the many upcoming malls in many cities. And Why would they set up shops near lakes and agri lands outside cities where no customer would be around?
And plz see and read the various farmer organizations coming in support of this decision. I think they would know better than u or me!
As always, why these farmers can be binamies for Politicians who can have lands ready to be converted into plots?

^^
For a moment leave walmart because there are too much pre-judice attached to it (some valid ones and some out of fear). Let's comeback to emotional farmers / produce issues and walmart later.

Go to any Ikea today, look at the products they have to offer. Don't you think that that their business model will help our SME's, individual carpenters, cottage industries, rural economy, coir and handicrafts sector etc., Be frank and think at it from all perspective.

Think about the Indian situation where it we don't fit our furnitures ourselves owing to cheap labor. So when you buy something from Ikea (the unassembled ones) they can offer labor to assemble that too at nominal cost. Same goes for other products like lighting and stuff too. There is huge room for both skilled and unskilled labor operating on both production and service side here. Agreed that some furniture shops also does it. But there is very little room for customization from customer point of view. And locals don't have service staff in mind. Service and production staff, more often than not are the same.

In addition to that Ikea will add high value jobs too for interior design & planning folks.

^^
For a moment leave walmart because there are too much pre-judice attached to it (some valid ones and some out of fear). Let's comeback to emotional farmers / produce issues and walmart later.

Go to any Ikea today, look at the products they have to offer. Don't you think that that their business model will help our SME's, individual carpenters, cottage industries, rural economy, coir and handicrafts sector etc., Be frank and think at it from all perspective.

Think about the Indian situation where it we don't fit our furnitures ourselves owing to cheap labor. So when you buy something from Ikea (the unassembled ones) they can offer labor to assemble that too at nominal cost. Same goes for other products like lighting and stuff too. There is huge room for both skilled and unskilled labor operating on both production and service side here. Agreed that some furniture shops also does it. But there is very little room for customization from customer point of view. And locals don't have service staff in mind. Service and production staff, more often than not are the same.

In addition to that Ikea will add high value jobs too for interior design & planning folks.
KT, i agree that IKEA is cheap and giving lot of options.
where is the guarantee, that these Walmart and IKEA to buy products from locals only?
KT, In India LABOUR is no more cheap. also transportation cost.
As i told, buying a coir product from Kerala and transport to Delhi is much expensive..
whereas they can import it from China at a low cost.
shirts made in Bangladesh is much more cheaper than Tiruppur. I remember yourself has posted that CG is killing Tiruppur..
by the same logic, these FDI Retailer will import from other cheap markets and kills local market.
For a moment, think yourself from the producer side as well.
this is the current issue in u.s too. Everything is imported from China. U.S is having only Technology. This is why most of the uneducated, people are jobless in u.s as there is no low profile jobs in manufacturing industries.

KT, In India LABOUR is no more cheap. also transportation cost.
As i told, buying a coir product from Kerala and transport to Delhi is much expensive..
whereas they can import it from China at a low cost.

That is because of in-efficiency in supply chain and logistics. That precisely is the expertise these folks are going to bring in. It is partly due to roads/infrastructure and other half is lack of experience on supply chain front. We still cling to traditional methods and strategies.

Tell how many retailers in India are capable of using EDI in supply chain? Using EDI is just one part of it and there are more such processes to regulate the cost on that front. Imagine what all processes and tools can do to the cost that you are talking about.


shirts made in Bangladesh is much more cheaper than Tiruppur. I remember yourself has posted that CG is killing Tiruppur..

Again you are failing to look at multiple perspectives that caused failure at Tirupur. It is beyond government policies. Government's policies did contribute to it, yes, but tirupur faced several issues outside that too. Government's policies are only the final nail in that coffin.

As of now Tirupur's strategy is export oriented. When FDI opens up here it will be mixture of both. Apply my UPASI-tea logic here. It opens up opportunity as well.

Not only Tirupur and textile. Same will happen to software / IT industries in the future. And that future is not too long. That's where you need foreign biggies for local consumption. India have huge bank, retailers and insurance / government sectors too but how much does it contribute to Indian IT? But when these folks come in it will.

Kris,
Your points are great.

Prior to Coke and pepsi coming to India, there were multiple local brands that were quiet successful, now we can see only Coke and Pepsi in the stores and nothing else... Media says Coke and Pepsi has that secret ingredient for its success. :) .
when our angadi's compete with such big marts, can they survive or they also close shops loosing in the media assisted big businesses.

lets first see how far this goes with so much political opposition.

Ok..I stop it here itself... i afraid, as India, slowly bowing down to "Western" countries and not doing anything to improve local productivity.
All the Western world understood, India is the market where they can sell and later on they can get back the wealth(RS than)..
Periodic cyclic is repeating...
East India came initially for "Trade". later on they ruled us.. they have taken most of our treasures, wealth...
now UPA is doing the same thing by inviting these folks again..
this time they dont have anything to take back except our hard earned money...

KT, i agree that IKEA is cheap and giving lot of options.
where is the guarantee, that these Walmart and IKEA to buy products from locals only?
KT, In India LABOUR is no more cheap. also transportation cost.
As i told, buying a coir product from Kerala and transport to Delhi is much expensive..
whereas they can import it from China at a low cost.
shirts made in Bangladesh is much more cheaper than Tiruppur. I remember yourself has posted that CG is killing Tiruppur..
by the same logic, these FDI Retailer will import from other cheap markets and kills local market.
For a moment, think yourself from the producer side as well.
this is the current issue in u.s too. Everything is imported from China. U.S is having only Technology. This is why most of the uneducated, people are jobless in u.s as there is no low profile jobs in manufacturing industries.

KT,
Even in US there is a strong movement to Buy local and avoid Big Box Stores.
In US people are asked to buy good in reusable bags now In India we always had manjai pai or koodai going to local shops by foot nearby stores and buy fresh, Now you want all of us go US way?


Even today Saravana stores sells lot of stuff cheaper than most small annachi shops but people prefer those mostly except for clothing. Saravana Stores is not big enough to procure goods cheap from East Asia (China.Thailand)But Walmart can do.My biggest concern is Procurement of goods from China and dumping it here? How are we going to control that? We can't afford to loose business to China I agree eventually we have to compete with globally but I am not sure we are ready for it now.

IKEA wont work in India, its of low quality and useful because labor is expensive to build nice hardwood furniture. I still do not get how will new jobs will be created by FDI?

Kris,

Prior to Coke and pepsi coming to India, there were multiple local brands that were quiet successful, now we can see only Coke and Pepsi in the stores and nothing else... Media says Coke and Pepsi has that secret ingredient for its success. :) ..

elanis are still successful. fruit juice vendors still flourish. goli-sodas exist locally as far as I know. what got wiped out are only thumbs-up, gold-spot and likes because they were same crap as pepsi or a coke :lol: And pepsi and coke provides more job opportunities than thumbs up or goldspot ever did.

Adhu than best of both worlds-nnu karadiya inga kathikittu irukken

Goodies will remain, be assured of it. :lol:

elanis are still successful. fruit juice vendors still flourish. goli-sodas exist locally as far as I know. what got wiped out are only thumbs-up, gold-spot and likes because they are same crap as pepsi or coke :lol: And pepsi and coke provides more job opportunities than thumbs up or goldspot ever did.

Adhu than best of both worlds-nnu karadiya inga kathikittu irukken

Goodies will remain, be assured of it. :lol:
hm.. not all Goodies remain..
kali mark, bavonto are lost, because they could not advertise...
also from consumer, you are right..you got the best..
but the money has gone back to u.s...
lot of local toothpaste, local soaps lost their way out...
we lost our own tamarind...
at any point of time, even they can take "Veeppa maram(வேப்ப மரம்) too..

When u.s is protecting IT Giants that they are taking away american jobs, why we should allow Wal-mart or TESCO or IKEA?

.
but the money has gone back to u.s...
lot of local toothpaste, local soaps lost their way out...
we lost our own tamarind...
at any point of time, even they can take "Veeppa maram(வேப்ப மரம்) too..

When u.s is protecting IT Giants that they are taking away american jobs, why we should allow Wal-mart or TESCO or IKEA?

What do you mean money has gone back to US? For whatever their investment in India is worth, they created jobs too. Of-course remaining will go back to US because they are US based companies. But don't they come back to India through coginizant and infosys and some back office support? (both are vendors to pepsi). Didn't TATA acquire steel companies and jaguar / land-rover in Europe and won't that money be coming back to India? BTW by doing that TATA saved few local jobs at respective countries too for which they were grateful for. Create a business in US and bring it back I say :) That's what trade balance is all about. You cannot have everything all by yourself.

Yes in US few are lobbying / protesting just like how chunk of us lobby against MNC's here and these protests are not going to stop global trade.

.

When u.s is protecting IT Giants that they are taking away american jobs, why we should allow Wal-mart or TESCO or IKEA?

FYI from your list only WM is American company. TESCO is brit and IKEA is swedish. Associating everything that operates with capitalistic strategy with US is like calling all south indian's madarasi :)

Based on your posts, I can say that you are trying to convince the readers of this page that the 'good old times' were awesome, and liberalization is all bunkum. :nuts:
This photo is 1 of the example that olden days are good.
post (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=86065550&postcount=214)
compare the "DISCIPLINE" in those days to present days...
those days, we get up early in the morning, having FILTER coffee, go to market,have good healthy breakfast, good lunch, good job, come home in the evening, take our sons to bazaar(by walk)... good dinner, early to bed sleep...
so because of that "normal" deliveries and very rare C-Sections..
nowadays
we woke up late, have coffee(some houses, BRU) with 2 or 3 days old milk, old vegetables , prepare some "mixed" rice, unhealthy breakfast or no breakfast, running to catch the bus or get stuck in traffic inside AC car ..
come back home around 8 pm, have dinner by watching tv..that time our kid would have gone to bed.. so we watch TV till midnight and wake up late again...
Weekends "unhealthy" PIZZA, SOFT Drinks,
most of the delveries are "c" sections.. that too, nowadays lot of women are not strong enough and they are going for medication for pregancy...

In my circle itself, i see 10-12 girls who are on medication for pregancy, whereas their mother, grand ma are still healthy to take care of lot of stuffs at their home towns or Villages.

so where is the quality nowadays?

This photo is 1 of the example that olden days are good.
post (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=86065550&postcount=214)
compare the "DISCIPLINE" in those days to present days...

Did liberalization contribute to that lack of discipline? Was that single photo reflective of India's lane discipline during per-liberalized era? Could that be because of less vehicle movement those days? or was it because all people who owned motorized vehicle that time had lane sense?

Talking about discipline, how long we have been defacating/urinating in public? During the golden era when that photograph was taken didn't those things existed?

C'mon KS, you just cannot attribute every chaos to liberalization

Did liberalization contribute to that lack of discipline? Was that single photo reflective of India's lane discipline during per-liberalized era? Could that be because of less vehicle movement those days? or was it because all people who owned motorized vehicle that time had lane sense?

Talking about discipline, how long we have been defacating/urinating in public? During the golden era when that photograph was taken didn't those things existed?

C'mon KS, you just cannot attribute every chaos to liberalization
regarding the traffic, whatever be the vehicle, still they had patience to stand in the queue.
moreover this is also 1 of valid point. liberalization brought every body to have a vehicle, but Govt did not expand the infra.

According to me FDI in Retail is "double" edged SWORD. It can be dangerous on both sides and it can hurt us as well.

We will see hear more stories like this in our place...



MILKMEN are fighting back against the supermarkets' dairy sales dominance – but realise they could be a dying breed.

There are currently four milkmen doing the rounds in Uttoxeter and surrounding villages, all supplied by Wells Farm Dairy in Stafford.

Grandfather-of-eight John Burton, who deliverers in the Marchington, Draycott-in-the-Clay, and Sudbury areas, has been in the trade for more than 40 years.

The 65-year-old started out working for the Co-op at the age of 21, but then bought his own round at a cost of £2,000.

Mr Burton, who lives in Draycott-in-the-Clay, said: "Back then the round was 900 homes and I used to employ four others to help me.

"Now it's just 200 homes, although I have sold some parts of the round as I got older.

"Milk rounds are dying out. When I started with the Co-op, it had eight milk rounds in the Uttoxeter area, and there were six private milkmen too.

"I blame the supermarkets because they are selling milk a lot cheaper. But we are selling locally-produced milk and we also provide a personal service.

"Over the years I have helped people post their letters and even helped people up if they have had a fall in their home."

Adrian Good, aged 48, delivers milk to homes in Uttoxeter.

The father-of-three said: "I started delivering milk at the age of 14 with a man named Ken Fowell.

"I worked with him for 10 years until he retired and I bought the round from him.

"The size of the round has roughly stayed the same – 500 houses – but people are having, say, one bottle instead of three. They are getting the bulk of their milk from the supermarkets."

Mr Good, who gets up at 2.30am to start his round, added: "I don't see milkmen surviving, but people need to realise they are getting locally produced milk from us, and it's also about the personal service – I would even put the milk in my customers' fridges for them if they left their door unlocked."

Milkmen John Challinor and Clive Knight also work a round which takes in Doveridge, Stramshall and Uttoxeter.

Wells Farm Dairy managing director Paul Halt said: "There is pressure on doorstep deliveries as it is a little bit more money for the customer – but it's a good service.

"There's the personal side of milkmen, like keeping an eye on your house if you are away, and perhaps helping an old lady if she's had an accident.

"Our dairy produces in the region of half a million litres of milk a week. We supply to around 40 milkmen across the county, as well as to catering companies, food manufacturers, and small shops."

FDI supporter/Non-supporters போதும் எல்லாத்தையும் நிறுதிக்கலாம்! :)

இங்க ஒரு பய புள்ள எவ்வுளவு பெரிய சாதனைய பண்ணியிருக்கான்! சச்சின் கொலவெறிய காட்டிலும் இவன் காட்டுன காட்டு இருக்கே ஏப்பா சூப்பர் அப்பு! நீங்க என்னடானா???


All-rounder Ashwin


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FDI supporter/Non-supporters


adhu enna fdi supporter in singular and non-supporters in plural? :)

Corner stores not worried by FDI move

R Soundarapandian, proprietor of Vijaya Stores in Vepery, is not as worried as one would expect him to be. He does not yet know the impact of the government’s decision to allow 51% foreign direct investment (FDI) in multi-brand stores and 100% in single-brand stores. He remains unperturbed when he is told that retailers like him could be put out of business.
“Businesses like mine won’t die out so soon. It’s not just about taking money and giving a product to the customer. It’s also about relationships. We’ve had families buying from us for two generations. We even attend functions in each others’ homes. They will not leave us for fancy shops,” he said.

Local retailers – also known as the ‘provision shop’ or ‘annachi kadai’ – recall the dread they felt when Indian retail giants set up supermarkets. Shoppers could pick up products from spotless shelves, check expiry dates and compare brands in airconditioned comfort.

Some like Vijaya Stores rose to the challenge. They rearranged furniture and removed gunny bags of rice to allow customers to walk through aisles and pick products off shelves, did impromptu market surveys and stocked cereals and dried fruits, and gave computerized bills. When they saw customers coming back, they even installed airconditioning and bright lights. “We also set up stalls to sell soup, popcorn, ice cream and chaat. We soon found our customers coming back,” Soundarapandian said.

Others like Santhosh Provision Store in Tiruvanmiyur did not make such changes but still saw customers returning. “One customer, who came back after months, said she ended up spending 40% extra each time she went to asupermarket. Now we deliver provisions to her door at no extra charge,” Santhosh said.

But not all customers have returned. “We have had to make a few changes. We no longer sell oil or ghee ‘in loose’. We only sell them in packets because nobody brings bottles or bags anymore. We also have to stock plastic covers now,” he said.

Times of India

adhu enna fdi supporter in singular and non-supporters in plural? :)

Spelling mistake:) Elathyaum bootha kannadi vachu paaka koodaathu :lol:

Spelling mistake:) Elathyaum bootha kannadi vachu paaka koodaathu :lol:
hm... Italy proxy is clever. when 2G scam is about to hit them, she slowed down the pace by letting this FDI proposal...but namesake they are telling that it should be passed in Winter session...

Interview by ANAND SHARMA on FDI in Retail

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/fdi-in-retail-will-benefit-farmers-consumers-anand-sharma/216962
Murlee,
I went through the interview by Anand Sharma...
1. Though he is claiming that it will be from Farmers to retailers directly,
2. Retail Industry can help the farmers by separating the different quality of vegetables/fruits for selling, food processing etc...
3. He is claiming that currently there 5-6 layers of middle men between Farmer and Retailer. Because of this middle men, consumers are paying 300 to 400% of price and farmer is not even getting 25% of market price.

I have few questions:

My question is, How "FDI" will eliminate these middle men, if Govt, domestic food processing companies, and retail giants failed to procure the products directly from Farmers without middlemen ?
2. We do not have any Businessman who does not want to invest "100%" on this retail business?
3. is Kishore Biyani's group, Reliance group and other few people opened the Retail outlets. how come the "FDI" participation going to increase the quality on those Retail?
4. Why Govt is not showing any interest in farmer markets? TN had for few years and it was killed..because most of the middle men are from either DMK or ADMK...
Earlier days, there used to be "Sandhai" every week..which is very good.

elanis are still successful. fruit juice vendors still flourish. goli-sodas exist locally as far as I know. what got wiped out are only thumbs-up, gold-spot and likes because they were same crap as pepsi or a coke :lol: And pepsi and coke provides more job opportunities than thumbs up or goldspot ever did.

Adhu than best of both worlds-nnu karadiya inga kathikittu irukken

Goodies will remain, be assured of it. :lol:

Exactly!!! All this talk of "old things being wiped out" is such hogwash.

We have more choice today, and more variety in the stands. Minute maid, Nimbooz, real juice, tropicana, pepsi, coke, sprite, 7-up - and thums-up also still exists - and many more brands.

And people whine about "coke and pepsi killing everything else". :bash:

I suppose commie-oriented people will peddle any amount of falsehood and lies. :bash:

pepsi, coke, sprite, 7-up - and thums-up also still exists - and many more brands.

I think sprite and thumpsup are coke's products. :) and 7up is pepsi's :)

Won't allow global players to set up markets in state, says Jayalalithaa




:doh:

Don't u think Hindustan Motors and their famous product 'Ambassador' suffered due to foreign companies??

Don't u feel that if such companies had not come, Ambassador would be in demand everywhere thus increasing local production??

Yes, and we would be driving big fat amby, tilt and start bajaj scooters, or had we not even let piaggio in the 50s (or 60s?), then we would be traveling on bullock carts. At every point the local manufacturers and their circle tried to influence to stop superior competition under the garb of national pride or jobs or whatever. These banias care about the people as much as as they care about a fly, the only think matters are the green bucks.


I think sprite and thumpsup are coke's products. :) and 7up is pepsi's :)
The Parle guy was too scared about the competition and did not understand that after the initial fad of coke, people would have come back to the tangier thumps up. I still prefer thumps up even though its much sweetened by the Coke nowadays. Even he subsequently realized his mistake.

statement of jaya on fdi

The sudden decision of the Government of India to open up Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) up to 51 percent in multi brand retailing and 100 percent for single brand retailing has come as a rude shock to the thunder struck millions of traditional retail vendors in the country. While Parliament is in session, this move of the Government of India to announce such a major policy decision affecting millions of people outside the Parliament without even consulting the State Governments is unprecedented and indicates the overweening arrogance of the UPA Government. The FDI policy in the retail sector is a sensitive issue and it was strongly opposed by various trade bodies even when the Committee appointed to study this issue made field visits. But, by making this sudden announcement ignoring the sentiments of the people, the Central Government has stirred the proverbial Hornet’s Nest.
The purported intention of the Government of India seems to be to bring more foreign investment into the country to improve market efficiency and bring down double digit inflation prevailing in the country, mainly due to the series of policy blunders made by the Congress led UPA Government at the Centre. Does our Nation lack such resources or the technology to deal with such problems? The Central Government should realize that constraints on farm products, on the supply side, which is one of the contributory factors to food inflation cannot be addressed through the FDI route, but only by squarely addressing the infrastructural constraints through appropriate policy support.
The world over, whenever local Governments opened up the retail sector, local prices went up sky high instead of curbing the price level. There are many countries whose experience shows just the reverse, as the price mark up by such MNCs is much higher than what is being charged by the small vendors. Further, such invasion of MNCs leads to monoplolisation of the market, exploiting both farmers and producers on the one side and the consumers on the other side as, once the traditional system of retail is broken, it cannot be rebuilt, if the MNCs adopt a predatory pricing policy. In most such countries, the unorganised retail sector, which provided livelihood to millions of traditional retail vendors, has been completely destroyed, as the organized Multi National Companies swamped the retail markets. For instance, in the U.K., it is reported that 3 retail chains now control 65 percent of the entire retail market. Similarly, in a country like Thailand, over 30 percent of the local shops were forced to close and pull down their shutters within 10 years of the entry of Foreign retailers. In India reports suggest that 90% of the total retail business is in the unorganized sector wherein 40 million people depend on unorganised retail for their employment and livelihood. While the Government of India talks about creation of 10 million jobs in the next 3 years, this will lead to 40 million people being uprooted and thrown out from their business. Most of these people are not well educated and will remain unemployed for ever. When we talk about the creation of employment opportunities, these retail vendors in the country who depend on this business for their livelihood will be rendered destitute and will be driven to the streets. Therefore, I strongly feel that this decision of the Government of India is a wrong decision, taken under pressure from a few retail giants, who are starved for capital infusion for their future survival.
The announcement of the Government of India has come as a thunderbolt and shocked millions of small vendors who have been completely taken off guard. Their fear that this move will completely throttle small retailers and distributors is not unfounded. As this will affect the livelihood of millions of small departmental store owners and completely destroy the unorganized retail sector within the next couple of years, I strongly oppose this move of the Government of India to open up the retail trade to Foreign Direct Investment. Though the policy guidelines are yet to be released by the Government of India, any amount of safeguards will not be any use in protecting the interests of the domestic sector. Therefore, I demand that this ill advised move of the Government of India should be reversed as it will not serve to bring down inflation or improve market efficiency. Rather, the domestic manufacturing and services sectors will take a serious hit and the retail trade will be completely taken over by the MNC dominated big retail giants which is not good for our country. Therefore, I am constrained to state that my Government will not allow the multi brand global players as permitted under the new policy to set up their hyper markets in Tamil Nadu
[/LIST]

Yes, and we would be driving big fat amby, tilt and start bajaj scooters, or had we not even let piaggio in the 50s (or 60s?), then we would be traveling on bullock carts. At every point the local manufacturers and their circle tried to influence to stop superior competition under the garb of national pride or jobs or whatever. These banias care about the people as much as as they care about a fly, the only think matters are the green bucks.



You are so right. :cheers:

It never ceases to shock me when I see educated people still hankering after the "good oooooold days". I think we should just begin laughing at them and treating their views with ridicule. This is basically a case of people of a certain strata of society who were used to cornering all the benefits of society and living in a sea of poverty around them. It unnerves them when they see that lot of other people have begun to enjoy prosperity and riches. Then they take to cribbing about how "old values have been destroyed", "family values are going to be destroyed", "traffic, noise, pollution", etc.

If this is true.. its stupid on the govt's part..


Retail FDI rider to help China, not India: MSEs (http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/industry-and-economy/economy/article2665306.ece)

Three years back RAAMS India shared a presentation on retail niche in India. Some useful details are listed in the presentation. If interested visit the following link.
http://slidesharemailer.com/wf/click?c=uO6HrIECmgsMyMFzOPMkJUrbzILdhvuewEdBR0n3DkYtdS01Cj1xFYxSbNj%2F8L%2Bn42tpBFHSGN8Lhk8HbFmj7cusQ6vf9BWVG4poyjGHBxY%3D&rp=rX57s8xPRxKV3ZwWSNYnb8YDufNfYyE%2F8PYmeR77Ev6f1%2B%2BKdUUdXMkRrd%2BNgXWnX2OvwHTmFbStEftwJVMhkLRVLAd1iN6o558BAilFMQFvWSimUJAgX976G6l849jt&up=YDTqBOjidbCUo%2Far1oAtZq77Jp%2FrSPhwmkyxkF7gZq1QnXf2KUSZOIwXidl1CSMvpE6HIMjSdxanvuYfvkZWGNwRQgJOqvfXDYJNmBnhiI5WcIl3Ssjmh7KnxN8O2Z%2FP&u=-yOgDLKXQq-MTUNP2X212Q%2Fh3

If this is true.. its stupid on the govt's part..


Retail FDI rider to help China, not India: MSEs (http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/industry-and-economy/economy/article2665306.ece)

murlee anything can happen in India when our political system is screwed much. Not to wonder once these MNC companies comes, ration arisi kadathi Kerala ku anupama walmart ku anupinalum anupuvanga!:nuts:

Walmart is procuring many goods from China, how sure we can be that it will not dump those products from China? IMHO in retail and also in agri sector we should be self sustaining! Still we are importing fertilizer from poreign countries...:bash:

Anyway to walmart in TN :baeh3:
Jaya's stand is perfect :applause:

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Those who are comparing this reform with 1991 economic reform I have few more points

- Retail sector is not some thing need kama sutra or kamba sutra technology like manufacturing or other servicing sector like software, transportation etc., So comparing 1991 economic reform with this politically motivated 2011 reform is insane.

- In 1991 we are forced to have such reform to develop our manufacturing & service sector as we were lagging 60-70yrs before developed countries and China overtook India in developments with their 1978 reforms. This 12yrs back log for India made us stay behind another populous nation.

- Manufacturing sector is not an SME sector, it is a large scale either big corporates owned or gvt owned. Desi companies couldn't match the demand and supply also they were not innovative!! 1991 reform didn't not abolish any SME, but indeed it abolished the companies like Ambassador etc., But comparing this with retail sector is insane!

- This is not the case with retail(for KT sir only Annachi kadai's are retail, like you said MNC FDI is beyond walmart, like wise retail in India is beyond Annachi kadai :lol:) -Now retail sector is matching supply and demand, they are innovative. Only supply chain sector is not organized another point is cold storage like facilities. I agree on this point. But the reason behind this is Infrastructure and technology penetration! Infrastructure is slowly penetrating inside villages/towns (but again KT sir will say no only Chennai is having it). Things have much improved in 2011 compared to 1991, also it will be far better in 2031.. appadiyae walmart vathuta expressway katti thanthuduvanga nama gvt. The walmart will use the same logistics and roads! Next cold storage, I agree when MNC FDI flow, these infra will be created in no time also it would be world class! We will be missing only this world class. But gvt is spending huge money on this cold storage. By 2021 we can see 10-15 cold storages in every districts. We are not lagging behind.

If we talk these points, we will become commies. Intha retail FDI support pannuratha partha, etho india la kai la sappidarathu kutham, so america la spoon la sapidara mathiri sapitta thaan nala irukkum nu sollura mathiri irukku.:lol:

If we talk these points, we will become commies. Intha retail FDI support pannuratha partha, etho india la kai la sappidarathu kutham, so america la spoon la sapidara mathiri sapitta thaan nala irukkum nu sollura mathiri irukku.:lol:


yes, partly our media is responsible for this attitude and our education system.
Some years back there was a news in media that Indians cooking using in firewoods were the main cause of global warming compared to other ways like industrialization and automobiles, and we still will believe such news. :)

well done Jaya for her clear stand on this issue.

A good read on the contract farming in India and how this will help eliminate the middlemen..

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/26389043/Contract-Farming

Innovative propaganda!

w7OqsRomdKk

^^

yo boys i am singing song
soup song
dam song
why this kolaveri kolaveri kolaveri da
why this kolaveri kolaveri kolaveri da
rhythm correct
why this kolaveri kolaveri kolaveri da
maintain this
why this kolaveri..da

dam strenghthenu nu
strengthen-u dam-u safe-u
safen-u certified-u certified-u
certified-u accept-u panu-u

why this kolaveri kolaveri kolaveri da
why this kolaveri kolaveri kolaveri da

new-u dam-u not-u possible-u
south tn-u future-u dark-u
why-u not-u understandig-u
don't fool-u us-u


why this kolaveri kolaveri kolaveri da
why this kolaveri kolaveri kolaveri da

---------------------------------------

ippadi namalum eluthalamey.:lol:

The cynics to the FDI use the same arguments as the ones used in 1991 : 'they' will takeover Indian markets, 'they' will destroy employment, 'our' companies cannot survive etc etc.. It is also funny that these people complain that Indian State is inefficient (rightly so) but they still want more and more role for the government..

Introducing FDI in retail in 53 cities in the whole of India is not going to affect millions of people as people like Jaya has suggested.. the ugly truth is most of the political parties have deep links with the middlemen and their opposition is mainly to satisfy their sponsors.. BJP opposing this is purely political and I'm sure that they would have done the same.. Modi will be the first to give license i think :)

Moreover, the control is going to be with the state government and if Jaya does not want it, she need not give license.. whats the big deal ?

The argument that FDI will make our retailers uncompetitive is simply out of inferiority complex than anything.. The lefties always have that and it is not surprising.. As KT said, good products have managed to withstand competition.. so many examples are there..

^^ ^^

yo boys i am singing song
soup song
dam song
why this kolaveri kolaveri kolaveri da
why this kolaveri kolaveri kolaveri da
rhythm correct
why this kolaveri kolaveri kolaveri da
maintain this
why this kolaveri..da

dam strenghthenu nu
strengthen-u dam-u safe-u
safen-u certified-u certified-u
certified-u accept-u panu-u

why this kolaveri kolaveri kolaveri da
why this kolaveri kolaveri kolaveri da

new-u dam-u not-u possible-u
south tn-u future-u dark-u
why-u not-u understandig-u
don't fool-u us-u


why this kolaveri kolaveri kolaveri da
why this kolaveri kolaveri kolaveri da

---------------------------------------

ippadi namalum eluthalamey.:lol:


Ungakitathan Graphics expert illayea... ippa enna pannuva

murlee anything can happen in India when our political system is screwed much. Not to wonder once these MNC companies comes, ration arisi kadathi Kerala ku anupama walmart ku anupinalum anupuvanga!:nuts:

Walmart is procuring many goods from China, how sure we can be that it will not dump those products from China? IMHO in retail and also in agri sector we should be self sustaining! Still we are importing fertilizer from poreign countries...:bash:

Anyway to walmart in TN :baeh3:
Jaya's stand is perfect :applause:

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Those who are comparing this reform with 1991 economic reform I have few more points

- Retail sector is not some thing need kama sutra or kamba sutra technology like manufacturing or other servicing sector like software, transportation etc., So comparing 1991 economic reform with this politically motivated 2011 reform is insane.

- In 1991 we are forced to have such reform to develop our manufacturing & service sector as we were lagging 60-70yrs before developed countries and China overtook India in developments with their 1978 reforms. This 12yrs back log for India made us stay behind another populous nation.

- Manufacturing sector is not an SME sector, it is a large scale either big corporates owned or gvt owned. Desi companies couldn't match the demand and supply also they were not innovative!! 1991 reform didn't not abolish any SME, but indeed it abolished the companies like Ambassador etc., But comparing this with retail sector is insane!

- This is not the case with retail(for KT sir only Annachi kadai's are retail, like you said MNC FDI is beyond walmart, like wise retail in India is beyond Annachi kadai :lol:) -Now retail sector is matching supply and demand, they are innovative. Only supply chain sector is not organized another point is cold storage like facilities. I agree on this point. But the reason behind this is Infrastructure and technology penetration! Infrastructure is slowly penetrating inside villages/towns (but again KT sir will say no only Chennai is having it). Things have much improved in 2011 compared to 1991, also it will be far better in 2031.. appadiyae walmart vathuta expressway katti thanthuduvanga nama gvt. The walmart will use the same logistics and roads! Next cold storage, I agree when MNC FDI flow, these infra will be created in no time also it would be world class! We will be missing only this world class. But gvt is spending huge money on this cold storage. By 2021 we can see 10-15 cold storages in every districts. We are not lagging behind.

If we talk these points, we will become commies. Intha retail FDI support pannuratha partha, etho india la kai la sappidarathu kutham, so america la spoon la sapidara mathiri sapitta thaan nala irukkum nu sollura mathiri irukku.:lol:
+1...
i was asking this question only...
Through "FDI" foreign retailers will improve infra in better logistics, they can get good price for farmers and consumers means, why cant Central Govt do it with local Retailers?

+1...
i was asking this question only...
Through "FDI" foreign retailers will improve infra in better logistics, they can get good price for farmers and consumers means, why cant they do it with local Retailers?

Who are they? If foreign retailers, then why should they?

--
Jaya's response is as convoluted and self-serving like her stance on kudankoolam project.

Who are they? If foreign retailers, then why should they?

--
Jaya's response is as convoluted and self-serving like her stance on kudankoolam project.
sorry sir,
i have edited my post. I mean to say, that CG can help the farmers, consumers by having better Retail policy. there is no need for FDI...

PS: I know, if JJ says "yes" for "FDI in Retail", you will oppose FDI in Retail. Since she says "NO" for "FDI in Retail", you are opposing her to say "Yes"...
you can keep dreaming for thatha for next 5 yrs.. its your choice.

sorry sir,
i have edited my post. I mean to say, that CG can help the farmers, consumers by having better Retail policy. there is no need for FDI...
If the CG could, it could have done in the last 70 years!


PS: I know, if JJ says "yes" for "FDI in Retail", you will oppose FDI in Retail. Since she says "NO" for "FDI in Retail", you are opposing her to say "Yes"...
you can keep dreaming for thatha for next 5 yrs.. its your choice.
Going by your logic, do you oppose KKulam project too? Sorry many others are not such blind amma worshippers like the ministers at the blore airport and are issue based.
Have any of the other major CMs come out so vehemently yet? She diminishes herself and TN by her bombastic behavior like the KK project.

^^


Ungakitathan Graphics expert illayea... ippa enna pannuva

nope! Intha virus innum tn la paravala, nama alunga ithai vida mosama graphis pannuvanga if the issue is serious i.e if new dam is going to be built.

If the CG could, it could have done in the last 70 years!


Going by your logic, do you oppose KKulam project too? Sorry many others are not such blind amma worshippers like the ministers at the blore airport and are issue based.
Have any of the other major CMs come out so vehemently yet? She diminishes herself and TN by her bombastic behavior like the KK project.
I am not amma supporter.. if you see this thread for the last 2 pages, you know that i strongly oppose "FDI in Retail" , much before Amma opposes/supports it..
I am "Anti" DMK..not A(AMMA)DMK..

enna porukku varen sollitu ilavarasar matrum dalapathy paatuthku sondhamanavaru kannum?

gurumurthy coloumn on fdi



Finally, FDI in retail has arrived. The collapse of the Rupee by one-fifth in just weeks, dwindling forex inflows and net FII outflows have forced a desperate government to sell India’s retail trade wholesale. Corporate and multinational lobbying to induct FDI in retail, branding it as “big ticket reform”, has been intense in the last few years. The lobbies have won. India has lost. The decision betrays a metropolitan bias; and exposes lack of understanding of India’s agricultural and rural economy. That it will endlessly damage the huge 1.2 million strong community-run retail business in India is undisputed. But the less known truth is that it will destroy food security in rural India. How? Read on.


The principal lobby argument for FDI in retail is that the deep pocket and expertise of Walmarts to establish supply chain will make rural areas and farmers prosperous. It does not need a seer to say how illiterate those who advocate this view are about rural India. The report of the “Working Group of the Planning Commission on Agricultural Marketing, Infrastructure, and Policy Required for Internal and External Trade” for the XI Five Year Plan [2007-12], read along with the 19th Report of the Standing Committee of Parliament on Food, Consumer Affairs, and Public Distribution [2006-07] submitted to Parliament draws the true picture of the rural/agricultural India. Compare the farms in India with those in the West. A total of 58.8 million of small and marginal farming families, that is over 32 crore rural people, live on farming in India. Their farm size is 5 acres or less. In contrast, in Canada, it is 1798 acres; in US, 1089 acres; in Australia, 17975 acres; in France, 274 acres; in UK, 432 acres. The US farm size is 250 times larger than the Indian; the Australian farms, 4000 times! Therefore, Farm Gate to Walmart supply chain that works in the US/West cannot be imagined here. Now look at how - and how much of - the Indian farm produce is brought to the market.


The Farm Gate to Walmart theory is founded on the elimination of not only middlemen but also small farmers by making farming contractual and corporate to reap economics of scale. It ignores global studies and Indian experience that affirm that economics of scale does not operate in agriculture. Actually smaller farms gives better production. The SMFs in India farm about 34% of the cultivated area, but produce 41% of food grains; their productivity is 33% higher. Replace small farms by large ones. Nation’s food production will instantly fall by 7%. Not just food. SMFs produce most of the 100.9 million tons of milk. So, unless half the rural population is done away with, small farming cannot be dispensed with. The Working Group concluded: “The small and marginal farmers are certainly going to stay for a long time in India - though they are going to face a number of challenges. Therefore what happens to small and marginal farmers has implications for the entire economy”. More critical is that what SMFs produce, they consume and share with the farm labour; they have no surplus to sell. See how Walmarts will destroy their food security.


A less known, stunning truth about rural India is that more than 60% of India’s food production does not enter commercial stream at all, but gets distributed, consumed within the villages. It is retained or stored by farmers for consumption, payment of wages in kind to farm labour; and for use as seed and feedstock for animals; for sale within the village. Even if a small part of the 60% un-marketed food production is drawn into the market through supply chain which Walmarts will establish, that will mean urban pricing in rural areas. Can SMFs and landless labour afford the market price and buy their food? Never. If that happens, will that what happened Alfanso mango in Konkan and Kerala fish not happen to rural food also? The Konkan people see, but don’t eat Alfanso but only export it for high prices and spend that money on urban goods. And the Kerala fishermen fish and export it at high rates, get cash and drink foreign whisky! The FDI in retail undoubtedly puts at risk, t he food security of SMFs and agriculture labour who who constitute 2/3 of India’s population, as the supply chain of Walmarts will make Alfanso out of the basic food grains in rural areas.


How does the marketable surplus of 40 percent of food produced by Indian farmers cross the village borders and enter the market? Nine out of ten tons [35%] of the surplus [of 40%] that enters the commercial stream enter the market through traditional Haats, Shandies, Fairs whose number is estimated at 47000. Only the balance of 5% directly enters the 6359 traditional wholesale Mandis organised under government supervision. Here begins the modern market economy where the surplus 40% of national production gets traded. This is from where the government procures and stocks food for the nation!


How do the Haats/Shandies function? Some 3/4th of them are held once a week; 1/5th twice a week; 1/20th on daily basis; one Haat covers some 14 villages; all put together cover almost the entire 6.58 lakh Indian villages. Some 2/3rd are held at 16 km from the villages; 1/4th at between 6 and 15 km; a tenth at less than 5 km. More than a third of the buyers walk to the Haat; 1/3 use bicycle; the rest use bullock carts, even motorised vehicles. According to the Working Group, at the Haats, the farmers not just trade, but also exchange social and cultural information about neighbourhood areas, settle marriages and disputes, make crop choice and discuss resource allocation. Therefore, the Working Group recommended that instead of asking the farmers to come to government for knowing what they should do and should not, the government should open its offices at the place where millions meet at the Haats. Now, by its retail FDI policy, the UPA government expects Walmart to go where the Planning Commission Working group had asked the government to go! See how the agricultural India is far removed from even the government. National Sample Survey data shockingly reveals that 7 out of 10 Indian farmers had not even heard - yes not even heard - of the Minimum Support Price [MSP] announced by the government with lot of fanfare; 81% of the those who have heard of it do not know - yes do not know - how to use it! This is because the MSP system operates only in Wholesale Mandis, not at Haats. That is why the Working Group wants the government to go to Haats. The Standing Committee rightly asked the government ‘how will farmers who do not know what MSP is, make use of futures market’. The government, which had no answer, finally banned forward trading in foodgrain.

QED: Thanks to FDI in retail, twelve million community-run retail shops are in danger; and rural food security at risk. This is UPA government’s gift for 2012 and onwards

http://expressbuzz.com/finance/business/Selling-India’s-retail-wholesale/337135.html

The history of swamy and pc war

it was 1977 and the Janata Party had astonished media pundits by coming to power on the distaste created by the Emergency for the Congress party. A slim lawyer from Tamil Nadu shyly came up to the Stormy Petrel of the period, Subramanian Swamy, who had just been elected to the Lok Sabha from Bombay, the city his Parsi wife Roxna regarded as home. During the Emergency, Swamy had stealthily entered Parliament House, quickly signed the attendance register, and vanished before policemen could apprehend him. Swamy was, because of his opposition to the Emergency, one of that period's Most Wanted.

Although regarded with less than affection by A.B. Vajpayee, he was a favourite of Morarji Desai, and had come back to India after giving up a teaching career at Harvard. Palaniappan Chidambaram, the lawyer from Tamil Nadu, was one of the editors (together with N. Ram of the Hindu) of the Radical Review, a left publication strongly in favour of nationalisation of private assets (the Hindu and the Chidambaram family's assets presumably excluded). Chidambaram reminded Swamy that he was one of his appreciative Harvard pupils, only to get a cold stare from the newbie celebrity, and a "who are you?" look

Although it failed with Swamy, Chidambaram's youth and clipped accent, so different from the denizens of Mylapore or Egmore, impressed Rajiv Gandhi. He was inducted into the Central Council of Ministers in 1984, as Minister of State in the Home Ministry, no less. Some of his joy at the elevation in his status was probably tempered by the sight of the forgetful Harvard professor, who seemed to have won the affection of the PM to an even greater degree than Chidambaram. What was Swamy doing, meeting the PM? Discreet warnings about the opposition element who had "opposed Indira Gandhi" had little effect on Rajiv Gandhi, who liked to surround himself with those who had taken a political line different from that of the Congress party. Swamy continued to meet with the PM regularly, and even do secret missions for him, tasks that were not confided to the Minister of State by either Swamy or the PM.

The situation was made intolerable for Chidambaram by (the then Rajya Sabha MP) Swamy raising the Hashimpura massacre in Parliament in 1987. The killing of more than 40 Muslim youth by the UP Provincial Armed Constabulary had sickened the nation, and both officials as well as politicians sought to distance themselves from the foul deed. Swamy did not allow Chidambaram such a luxury. He accused the minister of doing an "aerial reconnaissance" of the killing field, the implication being that the lawyer-turned-politician was behind the massacre. This was crossing a huge red line, and it was dangerous to be so foolhardy with Chidambaram, whose memory for slights rivals that of a Pathan tribal elder.


Although on the record, backers of the current Union Home Minister deny any role in Swamy's travails, others claim that Chidambaram waited for an opportunity to strike back. He was clearly patient, holding his fire when Swamy briefly became Commerce Minister in the Chandrashekhar government. The Tamil Nadu politician, whether because of the presence within it of Swamy or not, was one of the most persistent advocates of the Congress party withdrawing support to Chandrashekhar, advice that Rajiv Gandhi finally took in 1991, forcing the election that caused him his life.

Palaniappan Chidambaram is aware that he is a gift of nature to humanity, and is generous with advice to acolytes. It must rankle that Swamy has never, not even once, turned to him for guidance. To Chidambaram's chagrin, although he was Minister of State for Commerce with independent charge in the Narasimha Rao ministry, Swamy was made chairman of the GATT Commission set up to assist in the negotiations with that international trade body. Worse, he was given Cabinet rank, a slight that Chidambaram held against Rao thereafter, finally breaking with the PM in 1996 in the company of his old benefactor, Govindaswamy Karuppiah Moopanar. When H.D. Deve Gowda formed a government in 1996, Chidambaram became the Union Finance Minister.

Soon afterwards, a chance presented itself to send Subramanian Swamy to jail. The stormy petrel of Emergency days had taken over in 1997 as chairman of a trust set up by "spiritual guru" Chandraswamy, after Dr P.C. Reddy (the founder of the Apollo Group) resigned after Chandraswamy was targeted by the Finance Ministry for FERA violations, the godman's real offence being his closeness to one of Chidambaram's betes noire, former Prime Minister Rao. Although Swamy had just been inducted into the trust, and therefore had no role in any of the transactions being investigated, an arrest warrant was issued for him. Was it to be checkmate? Would Chidambaram succeed where Indira Gandhi had failed during the Emergency? Unfortunately for him, before Swamy could be arrested, Prime Minister Deve Gowda learnt of the warrant, and got it cancelled. Till recently, Swamy had been Gowda's nominal boss as president of the Janata Party, of which Gowda had been the Karnataka state boss, till he quit to join hands with the Janata Dal.

While Chidambaram may be a Pathan in his outlook, Subramanian Swamy is Sicilian. Soon after escaping from the prospect of jail in 1997, he filed a complaint against Chidambaram, alleging that the Finance Minister had misused his position to get promoters shares in Fairgrowth, an investment subsidiary of a nationalised bank. The Delhi High Court issued notice to the minister, who admittedly had been allotted the shares. However, masterful arguments by counsel Arun Jaitley led to the court asking Swamy for a fresh complaint, because of a technicality. Fortunately for Chidambaram, the Lok Sabha elections took place soon afterwards, in 2008, and Swamy lost interest in pursuing the case. Litigation is a full-time job in India, not a task one can attempt in one's spare time.

Although there were rumours that Chidambaram would join the BJP in 2003, a year later he re-emerged as Finance Minister in the Congress-led government headed by Manmohan Singh. From that lofty perch, he could perhaps afford to ignore Private Citizen Swamy, who by the 1999 polls was out of both government as well as Parliament. However, the converse was not true, especially after 2008, when a group of Telecom Ministry officials secretly called on Swamy at his New Delhi residence and gave him details of what they claimed was massive fraud in the allocation of 2G spectrum. By the beginning of 2011, Swamy became convinced that the scam had been perpetrated by both Raja and Chidambaram, with the Congress stalwart being the "senior partner". According to Swamy, it was Chidambaram who told Raja about the escape route that the companies that had been allocated spectrum could take to get over the three year lock-in period. Rather than sell the spectrum, they could sell the entire company, and thereby the spectrum.


as Chidambaram told in writing by then Home Minister Shivraj Patil about security concerns regarding Etisalat and Telenor, the two foreign companies that bought two of the Indian entities that had been given 2G spectrum by A. Raja sans an auction? Are there minutes of meetings between Raja and Chidambaram that show that the decisions taken were arrived at jointly, rather than (as numerous media plants claim) Chidambaram opposing Raja? Swamy says yes. On 26 August 2011, Swamy went to the Supreme Court asking for Chidambaram to be included as a culprit in the 2G scam. The very next day, the Crime Branch of the Delhi police (which directly reports to the Home Ministry, headed by Chidambaram since 2008) registered an FIR against Swamy for an article that he had written in DNA. The game of Catch between the two Tamil politicians thus goes on, so far with neither man succeeding in sending the other to jail

swamy has said he will now take up fairgrowth case again as his last petition was asked to file again due to error made in filing by his clerk. lets see how he proceeds against pc.

Many in bjp support base still target AJ over this and say they both are close.

ofcourse in 90's aj was darling of every politicians as nations leading young lawyer and his popularity was reason behind kapil sibal and abhishek manu singhvi leaving to congress from this side.

sibals houting the popular slogan coined was galli galli meing shor hai rajiv gandhi chor hai is not known to many

Mullai Periyar dam truth video with english subtitle. History, facts & solution to the issues.

If u cant see subtitle, press cc button in slider bar. Spread the video in FB & Twitter
Part1:
eXti8xblCLM

Part2:
pDYDBcfziDE

@ Gurumurthy article,

I am afraid Gurumurthy is turning into a socialist from a swadeshi :) I need some time to read, digest and opine more on this article. Here are few quickie replies to chew in the mean-time...

- I don't understand his logic on Food security part. I think he got it wrong. With proper mix of sustainable agriculture / improvement in supply chains / collective bargaining I for one believe that we can eradicate starvation deaths and mal-nutrition and even provide MuIdly based value meal for 0.99 paise :) [Mu idly's is short version of Murugan idly kadai idly's like Mc burgers / value meals]. Left to government they wouldn't be able to do it all-alone. You got to bring in huge corporates. Don't come back and suggest me to watch Food Inc., and Super-size me documentaries. I already did. I don't think that situation will ever arise in India. Plus we clearly know the mistakes made by US when it started the initiative for food-security and we can carefully avoid those mistakes.

- Regarding farmers and acre size, nothing prevents farmers from forming a autonomous body (like UPASI), eliminate middlemen and negotiate with the retail giants with collective power.

- Again what he fails to take into account is the weather in US & Canada. Unlike India, except for few crops most are seasonal here.


Finally the portion I quoted below is the same reason why I think Wal*Mart's should be in. Will write little more later.



Therefore, the Working Group recommended that instead of asking the farmers to come to government for knowing what they should do and should not, the government should open its offices at the place where millions meet at the Haats. Now, by its retail FDI policy, the UPA government expects Walmart to go where the Planning Commission Working group had asked the government to go! See how the agricultural India is far removed from even the government. National Sample Survey data shockingly reveals that 7 out of 10 Indian farmers had not even heard - yes not even heard - of the Minimum Support Price [MSP] announced by the government with lot of fanfare; 81% of the those who have heard of it do not know - yes do not know - how to use it! This is because the MSP system operates only in Wholesale Mandis, not at Haats. That is why the Working Group wants the government to go to Haats. The Standing Committee rightly asked the government ‘how will farmers who do not know what MSP is, make use of futures market’. The government, which had no answer, finally banned forward trading in foodgrain.

seems jaya has announced 50 godowns with modern facilities to be set up in TN for agri products. was it part of budget speech? remember something but not this value of 50.

she says we ourselves can improve the supply chain and when crores are spent by govt on other infra this core sector infra can be spent. bring in fdi in transportation and other sectors includin airlines, bring 100% fdi in news media, say existing media cant be invested in, so on.

The money saved for govt from transport infr fdi, it can be spent for retail or so on seems to b argument on this side of debate.

joke by friend

Soon corrupt politicos may say free car scheme to purchase at walmart.

a blog i found by a financial guy


This blog post is based on TV Channel reports on FDI policy on Retail as cleared by Cabinet. The basic conditions seemed to be

1. Up to 51% will be allowed.
2. Minimum investment by way of FDI must be USD 100 Million. (Roughly Rs. 500 Crores.)
3. 50 % of the capital needs to be invested in Back end infrastructure.

I am unable to understand what the Govt. hopes to achieve by this Policy. Most channels have gone overboard supporting the policy, going to the extent of saying that this the economic reform that the private Sector wanted. Till date I have kept away from this issue except plugging Shri Sekhar Swamy’s article. Even now I am uncertain about the benefits or otherwise of FDI in retail.

But what is puzzling me is this – We just had a mega scam exposed where one of the channels went overboard saying investments by minor local partner for their 26% stake was at a pittance compared to the 74 % stake of Foreign partner. What happened their is legal as per the laws that stood then. Will this loop hole be plugged in the new laws? Why is the same channel not asking this question? Will they wait for a scam to happen so that they can come out with an exclusive?

Second the Policy says the minimum investment by Foreign Partner should be USD 100 Million (Roughly Rs. 500 Crores). For a moment that every thing is as clean as can be. The foreign Partner brings in his Rs. 510 Crores and the Indian partner Rs. 490 Crores (perfectly as per FDI policy bare minimum.) We are told 50% of this needs to be invested in Backroom Infrastructure. Let us assume 20 such projects (or 5 projects 4 times bigger, pick your multiple) come up in the immediate future. The proposed investment in rural infrastructure will be Rs. 10,000 crores. Is my Government so poor that it cannot invest Rs. 10,000 crores in infrastructure and wants to beg (to borrow that term from Shri Rahul Gandhi) FDI investors.

I am still open on FDI in retail but certainly not at these terms. I am reminded of a story that used to go around in the days when Reliance advertised that by selling a reliance cell connection for Rs. 500 they were fulfillinDhirubhai’s dream. Last heard Dhirubhai was complaining in heaven that his sons were selling off his dreams for a mere Rs. 500.

This Government is doing something similar. They are selling off National dreams for mere pittance.

I am not giving pro fdi story its all well known. Many have written tons of articles abt it. its the antii fdi group thats protrayed as serving interests of few annachis, retailers, not wantng modernization,so on and hence will post the other side more

.................................................

prof vaidyanathamn in cri


There is a clamor for foreign direct investment (FDI) in the retail trade, which is dominated by Partnership and Proprietorship (P&P) firms. Unfortunately there is not much debate about the far-reaching implications of arrival of global retailers like Walmart in the economy. This is one area where the level playing field argument is not only meaningful but also significant. Also the State Governments should be consulted and their consent should be critical in this area affecting millions of families.

Trade constitutes the largest segment of the economy with a nearly 16.5 per cent share in NDP in 2009-2010, that is, in the aggregate NDP of Rs 39.8 lakh crore that year trade accounted for Rs 6.5 lakh crore [at 2004-05 constant prices] higher than the share of manufacturing [at 13.5%] and Agriculture [at 15.2%]. (National Accounts Statistics of the CSO, New Delhi 2011).

The growth rate [CAGR] in trade in real terms during this period 2004 to 2010 was 9.0 per cent, which is significantly higher than that of agriculture and nearly that of manufacturing.

Trade is conducted mostly [more than 80%] by partnership /proprietorship firms with active involvement from members of family and community. More than 125 lakh kirana stores provide a source of livelihood to 16 crore people. Retail trade has grown faster than the economy: it registered a compounded annual growth rate (CAGR) of 9.4% between 2004-05 and 2008-09 when the Indian economy grew at 8.66%.The retail trade comprises all kinds of people and formats — from street vendors to departmental stores of various types, shapes and characteristics. More than 80% of trade is accounted for by partnership and proprietorship forms — often called the “unorganized” sector. The kirana shop adjacent to my home opens at 7am and closes at 10pm every day, 365 days of the year. It is very efficient, and one can order through a mobile. The owner knows the tastes and price preferences of our family, but his business is classified as “unorganized” by our experts and national income data.

The footfall in his shop cannot be measured using western models (since there is no place for anybody to set foot inside his shop), and so he is derided and ignored. It is like clubbing housewives along with prostitutes in our census data to show them as unproductive citizens.

The retail trade suffers from two major handicaps. One is the non-availability of credit at reasonable rates from institutions; the other is the bribe one has to pay to the government babus to leave him in peace.

Nagamma has been a flower vendor for more than 20 years in my suburb of Bangalore. When she needs a loan, she participates in chit funds. Sometimes, she has lost big as the chit funds were run by crooks. I advised her to open an account with a commercial bank for saving her hard earned money and perhaps to get a loan later. The bank’s “know your customer (KYC)” norms require proof of address, PAN cards, proof of date of birth — everything but her dog’s surname. She has no chance of getting this kind of KYC done. Large companies get loan rates below the prime lending rate, but my vegetable vendor gets it at 0.5% per day. They have to return 50 paise at the end of the day for every Rs100 borrowed in the morning. This works out to be more than 180% per annum. My retail provision stores man gets his money in an interesting way. He gets Rs45, 000 (for a loan amount of Rs50, 000) upfront and pays Rs500 a day for 100 days to repay his full Rs50, 000. It turns out to be more than 10% for three months. More than 70% of the working capital requirements of retail trade in 2009-2010 came from non-bank sources.

The other perennial problem faced by the “unorganized” retail trade is the “organized” dacoity by minions of the state. They need to bribe the cops, bribe the municipal authorities and other local goons. The cost can be as high as Rs20 on an income of Rs200 or so per day. That is 10% of gross income. The same is true of fruit seller, the fast-food idli joint or the beauty parlor.

Instead of looking at these two important constraints imposed on the fastest growing and most productive and efficient retail trade, our planners want to open the field up for global sharks in the name of liberalization.

The argument is that the MNCs bring “funds” and “efficiency” .An MNC does not normally bring funds from outside sources as it can access them in our market by showing “comfort letters” from their parent companies. Many financial institutions, both government and private, are ready to lend to them below the prime rate as they are “Global”. That the MNC will bring funds from abroad is largely a myth. Remember, Enron which was supposedly bringing Rs 10, 000 crore from outside. The final result is that Indian FIs are holding more than Rs 6,000 crore of worthless paper.

Has anyone studied the “aggregate cost” of these global retail chains? Most American homes have a retail store in their basement. In the US, it is an issue of labor shortage but in India there is surplus that is part of the large self-employed group. For the economic expert goods held by household is consumption but held by mom-and-pop store is inventory. Hence, inventory reduction has been achieved in the economy. Not much space is available in Indian houses to convert them as “retail stores”. Another aspect is the fuel cost of driving long distances to the super-market and spending thousands of man-hours between aisles. Plus mobile phones are useful in placing orders from our Mata-Pita stores [also known as mom and pop stores in USA].

All petroleum services and products, rice, tobacco, salt, alcoholic beverages and fresh food traded at public markets are excluded in Japan from any “distributional aspect” by companies of other countries. Australia, Japan, South Korea do not allow trade services in petroleum, its products, rice, tobacco, salt, milk, fertilizers etc by foreign companies. French using their Loi Royer simply restrict any development of hypermarkets to protect what they call the “centres of French towns and villages and the living of small shopkeepers”. Germany has legislative constraints on outlets above 1200 sq.m. Shops and establishment Act is under State governments and so are the APMC yards. It is important that the state Governments are consulted and their concurrence taken.

The paan-chewing, dhoti-clad, English-ignorant retail trader should not be seen as an inefficient entrepreneur who needs to be bleached by globally-accepted detergents. What he needs is a level playing field, in the full sense of the term, with access to affordable credit and the abolition of inspector raj in the form of harassment by various arms of the government. Let us remember that we are still a savings-based, family-oriented economy.

.................................................................................

This where my issue. create asort of acceptable level playing field for these chota one before opening up, bar them from picking up stakes in existing entities, so on.

The back end infra if its going to be owned by these and onctrolled by these it doesnt help. Those farmers who dont wont to be part of these will still need these facilities.

.....................................................

one advantage the annachi and our retailers have. credit based grocery purchase that many do. this survives on this system
_________________

No FDI in Tamil Nadu - JJ

Source : Dinamani

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/3894/1559953.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/694/1559953.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Water level reached the permitted storage level of 136 feet (as of KL's Kerala Irrigation and Water Conservation (Amendment) Act) in Mullai Periyar dam

The last time the water level exceeded 136 feet was during the year 2000 when it reached 138 feet


Source: DInamalar

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/4502/28112011003024.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/20/28112011003024.jpg/)

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Mullai Peiryar issue

Refer to the following posts


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=86105823&postcount=258


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=86105850&postcount=260



http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=86105869&postcount=261

Mullai Peiryar issue

Refer to the following posts


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=86105823&postcount=258


http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=86105850&postcount=260



http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=86105869&postcount=261


nadathunga!! ellarum nalla irundha sari :) I had a comment for Arul's post, adha muzhungitten :lol:

nadathunga!! ellarum nalla irundha sari :) I had a comment for Arul's post, adha muzhungitten :lol:

Ennatha muzhungineenga, அத எனக்காக kakkiye aaganum :) PM annupunga :)

Jaya's principle opposition to FDI in retail is states were not consulted.
Translation: Union ministers did not bow to her like paneerselvam and her other cronies and see her divine blessings. :lol:

nadathunga!! ellarum nalla irundha sari :) I had a comment for Arul's post, adha muzhungitten :lol:

Kandippa ennai nakkal pannura mathiri thaan irukkum.. Konjam PM pannunga.

Jaya's principle opposition to FDI in retail is states were not consulted.
Translation: Union ministers did not bow to her like paneerselvam and her other cronies and see her divine blessings. :lol:

we can talk about your usual jaya bashing later. why sir not talking about mullai periyar dam? ;)

we can talk about your usual jaya bashing later. why sir not talking about mullai periyar dam? ;)
Unlike few, I am not pro any party. I am pro-TN, and anti *DMK* parties and see good and both in both parties and leaders. As mentioned before I am happy she is going after the goonda ministers in DMK, even though it has severely affected my investments. I hope she puts Alagiri permanently rather than taking bribes from the ex-ministers to let them go free. I agree with her statements on diluted syllabus in samacheer, just not her method of hurting school students.
This being a TN forum, we all are in full agreement about Mullai periyar dam and as the Dam movie director said, let the height be raised at the expense of the state provided all the water comes to TN, so Kerala's concerns about any real or perceived safety issues are also addressed.


Coming back to FDI, this goes back to quality of life issue in TN which hampers perception of TN, upper class people would prefer to shop in MNCs rather than the annachi stores and Chennai, CBE needs to cater to them if we want to attract high paying jobs also.

Looks finally Kanimozhi gets bail...

Coming back to FDI, this goes back to quality of life issue in TN which hampers perception of TN, upper class people would prefer to shop in MNCs rather than the annachi stores and Chennai, CBE needs to cater to them if we want to attract high paying jobs also.

As of now I couldn't find and post which contains Pro & cons of FDI in retail, Existing small & proprietary Retail outlets vs MNC Retail outlets.

I think government pushing FDI on retail due to TAX collection. Generally our annachi shops never pay any tax on the products soled. For Branded outlets it is not like that. There is a huge potential in the tax front.

crossposting

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Save-our-Dam-Mullaperiyar/259484464100625?ref=nf&sk=wall

http://i41.tinypic.com/1zojce1.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/1zbe7v5.jpg

http://www.dinamani.com/edition/story.aspx?&SectionName=Latest%20News&artid=514046&SectionID=164&MainSectionID=164&SEO=&Title=


சென்னை, நவ.28: கனிமொழிக்கு தில்லி உயர்நீதிமன்றம் ஜாமீன் வழங்கியதை அடுத்து, இதுகுறித்து கருத்து தெரிவித்த திமுக தலைவர் கருணாநிதி அப்பாடா... வந்தியா? என்று கேட்பேன் என்று கூறியுள்ளார்.

இதுகுறித்து இன்று அவர் வெளியிட்ட கேள்வி-பதில் பாணியிலான அறிக்கை:

செய்தியாளர் :- கனிமொழிக்கு ஜாமீன் கிடைத்துள்ளது. இப்போது உங்கள் மனநிலை எவ்வாறு உள்ளது?

கருணாநிதி பதில் :- மிகவும் மகிழ்ச்சியாக இருக்கிறது.

கேள்வி :- அவர்கள் வந்தவுடன் முதலில் என்ன சொல்ல விரும்புகிறீர்கள்?

பதில் :- அப்பாடா! வந்தியா?

கேள்வி :- நீங்கள் இப்போது டெல்லி செல்கிறீர்களா?

பதில் :- இல்லை.

கேள்வி :- கனி இன்றைக்கே சென்னை வருகிறார்களா? எப்போது வருகிறார்கள்?

பதில் :- இன்னும் தெரியவில்லை. நீதிமன்ற நடைமுறைகள் இருக்கின்றன. அதையெல்லாம் பார்த்துக் கொண்டுதான் வர வேண்டும்.

கேள்வி :- இவ்வளவு நாள் தாமதமாக ஜாமீனில் விட்டிருக்கிறார்கள். தற்போதுள்ள சட்ட விதி முறைகளைப் பற்றி நீங்கள் ஏதாவது கூற விரும்புகிறீர்களா?

பதில் :- ஜாமீன் கிடைத்ததற்காக மகிழ்ச்சி அடைய வேண்டிய நேரத்தில் தாமதத்திற்கான காரணத்தைத் தேடிக் கொண்டிருக்க முடியாது.

கேள்வி :- சிறையில் ஆறு மாத காலம் கஷ்டங்களை யெல்லாம் கனிமொழி அனுபவித்திருக்கிறார்கள். அதற்காக இப்போது கட்சியில் ஏதாவது பெரிய பதவி கிடைக்குமா?

பதில் :- “அப்பா” என்ற முறையில் மகிழ்ச்சியைத் தெரிவித்தேன். “தலைவர்” என்பதற்காக நான் சர்வாதிகாரி அல்ல. எல்லோரும் சேர்ந்ததுதான் கட்சி. எனவே கட்சிதான் எந்த முடிவையும் செய்யும்.

கேள்வி :- சென்னைக்கு எப்போது வருகிறார்கள் என்பது நிச்சயமாகி விட்டதா?

பதில் :- எப்போது வருகிறார் என்று தெரியவில்லை. நாடாளுமன்றக் கழகக் குழுத் தலைவர் டி.ஆர். பாலுவும் மற்றவர்களும் அங்கே இருக்கிறார்கள். வழக்கறிஞர்களோடு நீதி மன்றத்தில் கலந்து பேசி சொல்வார்கள்.

கேள்வி :- தற்போது கிடைத்துள்ள ஜாமீன், வழக்கில் பிறகு கிடைக்கக் கூடிய வெற்றிக்கு முன்னுதாரணமாக இருக்குமா?

பதில் :- நான் நீதிமன்றங்களைப் பற்றியும், வழக்கின் போக்குகள் பற்றியும் விவாதிப்பது முறையல்ல!

கேள்வி :- தற்போது கனிமொழிக்கு ஜாமீன் கிடைத்திருப்பதால், ராஜாவையும் ஜாமீன் போடச் சொல்லி வற்புறுத்துவீர்களா?

பதில் :- அதைப் பற்றி ராஜா என்னுடைய கருத்துக்களைக் கேட்டால் உரிய கருத்துக்களைச் சொல்வேன். இதுவரை ராஜா அதைப்பற்றி என்னிடம் பேசவில்லை.

கேள்வி :- கனிமொழியை ஜாமீனில் விட்ட பிறகு, தான் ஜாமீன் கேட்பது பற்றி முடிவு செய்வேன் என்று ராஜா சொல்லியிருந்தாரே?

பதில் :- என்னிடம் கலந்து பேசி, அவர் எந்தக் கருத்தையும் சொல்லவில்லை.

கேள்வி :- கனிமொழி ஜாமீன் பெற்று சென்னைக்கு வரும்போது, கட்சித் தொண்டர்களின் வரவேற்பு பெரிதாக இருக்குமா? பலமாக இருக்குமா? ஏற்பாடு செய்யப்படுமா?

பதில் :- வரவேற்பு இருக்கும். அது பலமாக இருக்குமா, பெரிதாக இருக்குமா என்றெல்லாம் சொல்ல முடியாது. ஆறு மாதங்களாக சிறையிலே இருந்து விட்டு வருகிறார். உள்ளத்தால் எல்லோரும் ஒன்றுபட்டு வரவேற்றால் அனைவரும் மகிழ்ச்சி அடைவார்கள்.

கேள்வி :- கனிமொழியின் தாயார் எப்படி இருக்கிறார்?

பதில் :- அவர் அளவற்ற மகிழ்ச்சியுடன் இருக்கிறார். தாய் உள்ளம் அல்லவா?

The lousiest argument by Cong govt in favor of foreign FDI in retail sector is it will be deflationary...:bash:

Once the multinationals get us thinking into the thought process of deals and few paise cuts, we will be latched on as a society to filling their coffers. Walmart with their more than $ 400 billion sales never enriched any society they have been. I do shop their periodically, but if one were to add all the inheritors of Sam Walton's estate, it is bigger than Bill Gates and Warren Buffet combined.

Price cuts have never made anyone wealthy. They are masters at getting you to buy more junk than we can imagine.

The masses of Indian public will never see the benefit. Congress wants to fill its cash reserves by undergound deals and deflect issues like inflation, PC case, 2G scam etc.

The current congress is the worst in the entire history of Indian civilization. Are they competing to beat Aurangazeb or DhanaNanda or Mohammed-bin-Thuglaq.:bash:

Worser still is the bait that states can choose. Wait till the first state implements, all the stupid SGs will have to follow suit or end up as big losers to these earthshattering changes. Its a case of congress making money at nation's cost.

43 industrial clusters ‘critically polluted'



...

Vellore, Cuddalore, Manali and Coimbatore in Tamil Nadu..

Central Pollution Control Board along with Indian Institute of Technology (IIT), Delhi and other institutions assessed 88 polluted industrial clusters across the country under the Comprehensive Environmental Pollution Index (CEPI) system of environmental assessment, an Environment Ministry release said. All the 43 industrial clusters were found with a CEPI score > 70 (critically polluted)....

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/industry-and-economy/economy/article2668934.ece

Drop this guy at eelam. Rajapakshe will take care of the rest

http://tamil.oneindia.in/news/2011/11/28/tamilnadu-seeman-slams-tamils-aid0091.html

நாம் தமிழர் கட்சியில் இல்லாதவர்கள் நல்ல தாய், தகப்பனுக்குப் பிறக்காதவர்கள்- சீமான் சர்ச்சைப் பேச்சு

கடலூர்: இந்த தமிழ்நாட்டில் தமிழர்கள் பல கட்சிகளில் இருக்கிறார்கள். நாம் தமிழர் கட்சியில் யாரும் இல்லை. நாம் தமிழர் கட்சியில் இல்லாதவர்கள் நல்ல தாய் தகப்பனுக்கு பிறந்தவன் அல்ல என்று நாம் தமிழர் கட்சித் தலைவர் சீமான் கடுமையாக பேசியுள்ளார். அவரது பேச்சு சர்ச்சையைக் கிளப்பியுள்ளது.

நாம் தமிழர் என்ற பெயரில் இயக்கம் ஆரம்பித்து அதைக் கட்சியாக தற்போது மாற்றி செயல்பட்டு வருகிறார் இயக்குநர் சீமான். தமிழ் ஆர்வலர்கள் மத்தியில் இந்த இயக்கத்திற்கு நல்ல பெயரும், நல்ல ஆதரவும் காணப்படுகிறது. ஆனால் அதற்குப் பாதிப்பு ஏற்படும் வகையில் கடலூரில் நடந்த மாவீரர் தினக் கொண்டாட்ட நிகழ்ச்சியில் இடம் பெற்ற சீமானின் பேச்சு ஏற்படுத்தியுள்ளது.

கடலூர் சுப்புராய ரெட்டியார் திருமண மண்டபத்தில் நாம் தமிழர் கட்சியின் சார்பில் மாவீரர் தினம் கொண்டாடப்பட்டது. இதில் சீமான், பேராசிரியர் தீரன் உள்ளிட்ட நூற்றுக்கணக்கானோர் கலந்து கொண்டனர். பல்வேறு நிபந்தனைகளுக்குட்பட்டு இந்த கூட்டத்திற்கு அனுமதி அளித்தது காவல்துறை.

அப்போது சீமான் பேசுகையில், சீமான் ஒரு நாள் சட்டமன்றத்துக்குள் போவான். பிரபாகரன் படம் இருக்கும் சட்டையுடன் போவேன். சட்டயை கழட்டச் சொன்னால் சட்டையை கழட்டுவேன். உள்ளே உடம்பில் பச்சை குத்தியிருப்பேன். அப்ப வெளியே போகச் சொல்ல முடியுமா?

இந்த தமிழ்நாட்டில் தமிழர்கள் பல கட்சிகளில் இருக்கிறார்கள். நாம் தமிழர் கட்சியில் யாரும் இல்லை. நாம் தமிழர் கட்சியில் இல்லாதவர்கள் நல்ல தாய் தகப்பனுக்கு பிறந்தவன் அல்ல என்றார்.

இதைக் கேட்டதும் கூட்டத்திற்கு வந்திருந்த பலரும் முகம் சுளித்தனர். சீமான் பேச்சில் இடம் பெற்ற வார்த்தைகள் மிகக் கடுமையானவை என்று அவர்கள் அதிருப்தியுடன் வெளியேறியதைக் காண முடிந்தது.

Every woman is having an average of 10 children in the village near Tanjavur of Tamil Nadu.


Every family of a village in Tamil Nadu is having about 5 to 10 children and the village is situated near Thanjavur and about 380 km away from Tamil Nadu’s capital city Chennai. Almost there are 300 families are living there and the village name is Keezhathottam and almost all the people are indulged in fishing for their income.

The village is surrounded by backwaters of the Cauvery river which keeps on adding abnormal high rate of new-born every year. Most of the deliveries are happened only at homes and no woman is willing to go to Hospital.

Ms V. Pushpam aged 30 is one among them with a child in her hand of one month old and she is having 13 children. In the same way Ms. Chellmma aged 32 is one among them and having seven children and one out of the seven one is mentally challenged and it’s mental sickness doesn’t disturb her.

Both of them said that though their family is big with more children, they expressed the non-availability of bus service to cities as their biggest trouble and they ignore about primary health centre which is about 2km away from the village. They said that they are earning daily to meet out the food expenses for their children.

A.Padmavathy, a rural health officer who is working there for a long time at the village said death and birth news are common there every day and she added that they are not ready for any birth control or to adopt any birth control methods to follow and she remarked that all women and men of the village do not ready even to listen about it.

She said that many women get pregnant every alternate year.

One volunteer of the nearest social service organization said that they sell the fish and prawns at cheaper rates to middlemen since the village do not have any government or private bus services to the village and many of them do not ready to come out of their houses.

http://myhealthbowl.com/latest-health-news/every-woman-is-having-an-average-of-10-children-in-the-village-near-tanjavur-of-tamil-nadu/

Looks like some african country like suitation. Sekaram bus vedugapa

Paramakudi firing incident victims get govt job



Tamil Nadu Chief Minister J Jayalalithaa on Tuesday announced jobs on compassionate grounds to one member each of the families of the six persons killed in the police firing in Paramakudi on September 11.



She also announced an additional compensation of Rs 4 lakh to the next of kin of those killed. The government had earlier given Rs 1 lakh to them.



Likewise, those injured in the incident will also get an additional relief of Rs 15,000 apart from the Rs 15,000 they received earlier, an official release said.



The order came after the chief minister accepted the report of the one-member committee headed by retired Justice K Sampath to probe into the incident.



Police resorted to firing in self defence when violence broke out on September 11 after news spread that Dalit leader John Pandian had been detained at Tuticorin en route to Paramakudi in Ramanathapuram district to pay homage on the death anniversary of Dalit leader Imanuel Sekar. In order to maintain law and order, Pandian had been barred from entering Ramanathapuram.



http://www.indianexpress.com/news/paramakudi-firing-incident-victims-get-govt-job/881921/

Heights of Idiocracy

Kudankulam protest ‘unwarranted and counter-productive”

Chennai, Nov. 28: The Chemical Industries Association, a body representing a cross-section of chemical industries in Tamil Nadu, today said that the protest against the Kudankulam nuclear power project is “unwarranted and counter-productive”.

“The Tamil Nadu chemical industries have been hoping that the early commissioning of the Kudankulam plant will give some relief, though not to the level required,” the Association has said in a statement.

The statement notes that the chemical units in the State have been reeling under power shortage with many of them suffering loss of production and consequent difficulties in sustaining operations.

Nuclear science is a complex subject and it would be beyond the capability of non-technical people to understand its nuances. Under the circumstances, people will have to repose faith in the nuclear scientists, the Association's President, Mr P.K.N. Panicker, has said.

There was a time when Tamil Nadu was the “leading centre” for chemical industries but the State has lost its place of pride, Mr Panicker said. The Association urged the State Government to take a “firm stand”. The hesitation of the Union Government to act positively is affecting the investor's confidence in Tamil Nadu, the statement said

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/industry-and-economy/economy/article2668828.ece

some basics


A gravity dam is a solid structure, made of concrete or masonry, constructed across a river to
create a reservoir on its upstream. The section of the gravity dam is approximately triangular
in shape, with its apex at its top and maximum width at bottom. The section is so
proportioned that it resists the various forces acting on it by its own weight. Most of the
gravity dams are solid, so that no bending stress is introduced at any point and hence, they are
sometimes known as solid gravity dams to distinguish them from hollow gravity dams in
those hollow spaces are kept to reduce the weight. Early gravity dams were built of masonry,
but now-a-days with improved methods of construction, quality control and curing, concrete
is most commonly used for the construction of modern gravity dams. A gravity dam is
generally straight in plan and, therefore, it is also called straight gravity dam. However, in
some cases, it may be slightly curved in plan, with its convexity upstream. When the
curvature becomes significant, it becomes on arch dam. The gravity dams are usually
provided with an overflow spillway in some portion of its length. The dam thus consists of
two sections; namely, the non-overflow section and the overflow section or spillway section.
The design of these two sections is done separately because the loading conditions are
different. The overflow section is usually provided with spillway gates. The ratio of the base
width to height of most of the gravity dam is less than 1.0. The upstream face is vertical or
slightly inclined. The slope of the downstream face usually varies between 0.7: 1 to 0.8: 1.
Gravity dams are particularly suited across gorges with very steep side slopes where earth
dams might slip. Where good foundations are available, gravity dams can be built upto any
height. Gravity dams are also usually cheaper than earth dams if suitable soils are not
available for the construction of earth dams. This type of dam is the most permanent one, and
requires little maintenance. The most ancient gravity, dam on record was built in Egypt more
than 400 years B.C. of uncemented masonry. Archeological experts believe that this dam was
kept in perfect condition for more than 45 centuries. The highest gravity dam in the world is
Grand Dixence Dam in Switzerland, which is 285 ill high. The second highest gravity dam is
Bhakra Dam in India, which has a height of 226 m.

The weight of the dam is the main stabilizing force in a gravity dam. The dead load to be
considered comprises the weight of the concrete or
masonry or both plus the weight of such appurtenances as
piers, gates and bridges. The weight of the dam per unit
length is equal to the product of the area of cross-section
of the dam and the specific weight (or unit weight) of the
material. The unit weight of concrete and masonry varies
considerably depending upon the various materials that
go to make them. It is essential to make certain that the
assumed unit weight for concrete/masonry or both can be
W2
obtained with the available aggregates/ stones. The
specific weight of the concrete is usually taken as 24
W3
kN/m3, and that of masonry as 23 kN/m3 in preliminary
designs. However, for the final design, the specific weight
W1
is determined from the actual tests on the specimens of
materials. It is essential that the actual specific weight of concrete during the construction of the dam should not be less than that considered in the final design. Attempts should be made
to achieve the maximum possible specific weight. The factors governing the specific weight
of the concrete are water-cement ratio, compaction of concrete and the unit weight of the
aggregates. For high specific weight, the aggregates used should be heavy. For convenience,
the cross-section of the dam is divided into simple geometrical shapes, such as rectangles and
triangles, for the computation of weights. The areas and controids of these shapes can be
easily determined. Thus the weight components W1, W2, W3 etc. can be found along with their
lines of action. The total weight W of the dam acts at the C.G. of its section.

....................................

A Gravity dam resists the pressure of water by its sheer weight. As such, it is laid to be very heavy and need a strong rocky foundation. Masonry gravity dams are stronger and more stable than earth and rock-fill dams.

http://studentleaks.org/solid-masonry-gravity-dams/

Theodore Roosevelt Dam is a dam on the Salt River located northeast of Phoenix, Arizona. The dam is 357 feet (109 m) high and forms Theodore Roosevelt Lake as it impounds the Salt River. Originally built between 1905 and 1911, the dam was renovated and expanded in 1989-1996. The dam is named after then-President Theodore Roosevelt. Serving mainly for irrigation water supply and flood control, the dam also has a hydroelectric generating capacity of 36 megawatts.

[B]This, the world's highest masonry dam, was started in 1906 and completed in 1911[/B

....................................

what to do , this dam is superior american technology and not inferior british technology or inferior indian technology of strengthening.

Construction on Roosevelt Dam began in 1903 just below the confluence of Tonto Creek and the Salt River. The primary purpose of the project was to provide water storage for the Salt River Project and flood control through the Salt River Valley. The dam was finished in 1911 after several devastating floods had interrupted the construction progress in 1905. Completed at a cost of $10 million, it was the largest masonry dam in the world for its time with a height of 280 feet (84 m) and a length of 723 feet (216 m), while Roosevelt Lake was for a time the world's largest artificial reservoir. The dam was originally known as "Salt River Dam #1", it was not until 1959 that the dam and reservoir were officially named after Theodore Roosevelt.

Roosevelt Dam, as originally conceived and built, was a symbol of success and a showpiece for the new agency. The dam contributed more than any other dam in Arizona to the settlement of Central Arizona and to the development of large-scale irrigation there

The dam was listed as a National Historic Landmark in 1963.

.......................................................

unlike our dam which had same effect as the above on development, of
of area and people quality of life,food production, but named national dooms day dam

Flash Mob Dance - becoming popular in India.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iyt16efRrBo&feature=player_embedded

Nice to see the enthu. Full of positive energy.

Mumbikars amaze me.

In 1989, an ambitious expansion and renovation project was begun at Roosevelt Dam. The dam was resurfaced with concrete by J.A. Jones Construction Company, and its height was raised 77 feet (23 m) to 357 feet (107 m), which had the effect of increasing the storage capacity of Roosevelt Lake by roughly 20%.
.................................................

see superior american concrete technology

...........................................................

4.6.0 Introduction
Dams constructed out of masonry or concrete and which rely solely on its self weight for
stability fall under the nomenclature of gravity dams. Masonary dams have been in use
in the past quite often but after independence, the last major masonry dam structure
that was built was the Nagarjunsagar Dam on river Krishna which was built during
1958-69. Normally, coursed rubble masonry was used which was bonded together by
lime concrete or cement concrete. However masonry dam is no longer being designed
in our country probably due to existence of alternate easily available dam construction
material and need construction technology. In fact, gravity dams are now being built of
mass concrete, whose design and construction aspects would be discussed in this
chapter. There are other dams built out of concrete like the Arch/Multiple Arch or
Buttress type. These have however not been designed or constructed in India, except
the sole one being the arch dam at Idukki on river Periyar.

...................................

btwn nagarjuna sagar largest masonry dam in world.

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/3263/mulai.jpg

SOURCE: (http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/opinion/article2671851.ece?homepage=true)

Foreign direct investment (FDI) in retail has been permitted up to 51 per cent, and the FDI limit for single-brand retail has been increased to 100 per cent. The power of the State governments to decide on FDI in retail in their States has also been taken away. In this context, it is important to understand the implications of FDI in food retail for various stakeholders.

FARMERS NOT BENEFITED
The operations of domestic fresh food supermarkets in India haven't made any difference to the producer's share, other than lowering the marketing cost of producers, as supermarkets have collection centres in producing areas, unlike the Agricultural Produce Market Committee (APMC) markets (mandis) which are in distant cities.

But, these supermarkets buy only ‘A' grade produce, that too, on open market (APMC) price-based prices, and only a part of the farmers' output — those who end up going to the APMC mandi to dispose of the remaining/rejected produce. The chains procure from ‘contact' (not contract) farmers without any commitment to buy regularly, as they don't want to share the risk of the growers.

Thus, the involvement of supermarket chains with producers is low and there is no supply-chain efficiency, as many of them have already wound up, for example, in Gujarat. The clamour regarding small landholder benefit in high value crops (read fruits and vegetables) due to supermarket linkage is exaggerated, as these crops account for only 2 per cent of gross cropped area, and the direct linkage is either absent or pretty low. This isn't likely to change even with FDI in retail.

Further, due to the sheer size and buying power of foreign supermarkets, the producer prices may be depressed. There have been a large number of supermarket malpractices across the globe which include: payment and discounts from suppliers for promotions/opening of new stores; rebate from producers as a percentage of their supermarket sales; minus margins whereby suppliers aren't allowed to supply at prices higher than the competitor price; delayed payments; lowering prices at the last minute when supplier has no alternative; changing quantity/quality standards without notice; removing suppliers from their list without good reason; charging high interest on credit, using tough contracts and penalties for failing to supply.It is shocking that no restrictions have been put in place to protect the primary producer or smallholder interest when 86 per cent farmers are small or marginal. The supermarkets are known to prefer large suppliers of farm produce.

JOB LOSSES
The supermarket expansion also leads to employment loss in the value chain. As compared with 18 jobs created by a street vendor, 10 by a traditional retailer and eight by a shop vendor in Vietnam, a supermarket such as Big C needed just four persons for the volume of produce handled.

Metro Cash & Carry employed 1.2 workers per tonne of tomatoes sold in Vietnam, compared with 2.9 persons employed by a traditional wholesale channel for the quantity sold. The spread of supermarkets led to 14 per cent reduction in the share of ‘mom and pop' stores in Thailand within four years of FDI permission. In India, 33-60 per cent of the traditional fruit and vegetable retailers reported 15-30 per cent decline in footfalls, 10-30 per cent decline in sales and 20-30 per cent decline in incomes across cities of Bangalore, Ahmedabad and Chandigarh, the largest impact being in Bangalore, which is one of the most supermarket-penetrated cities in India.


INTERNATIONAL EXPERIENCE
The evidence from Latin American (Mexico, Nicaragua, Argentina), African (Kenya, Madagascar) and Asian countries (Thailand, Vietnam, India) shows that the supermarket prices for fruits and vegetables and some other basic foods were higher than those in traditional markets. Also, lower procurement prices by procuring directly from farmers needn't lead to lower consumer prices in supermarket chains.

Low-income households may face higher food prices because of reasons of distance from supermarkets, and higher prices charged by supermarkets in low-income areas. Supermarkets would lead to concentration of market power, with upstream suppliers facing buyer power in terms of lower prices and consumers (buyers) facing higher prices due to lower competition, besides traditional retailers suffering a decline in their business.

POLICY ISSUES
The biggest fear in India is that there may not be adequate institutions and effective governance mechanisms to monitor the operations of the global retailers.

If the monitoring of wholesale ‘cash n carry' stores so far is any indication, there is no regulation and the norms are flouted openly at the store level by the existing players. They are found to do retail sales in the garb of wholesale as the size of a single purchase (minimum ticket size) is just Rs 500 or Rs 1000, which doesn't seem to be governed by any regulation.

Given the global and the Indian experiences of supermarkets so far, it was important to slow down food supermarket expansion by mechanisms like zoning, business licenses, and trading restrictions. Further, there is a need to limit the buying power of the supermarkets by strengthening the competition laws, like the legal protection given to subcontracting industries in Japan in their relations with large firms.

These provisions are monitored by the Fair Trade Commission. If contract or ‘contact' farming is only another name for subcontracting, then it is only logical to extend such legal provisions with necessary modifications to farming contracts.

Every woman is having an average of 10 children in the village near Tanjavur of Tamil Nadu.


http://myhealthbowl.com/latest-health-news/every-woman-is-having-an-average-of-10-children-in-the-village-near-tanjavur-of-tamil-nadu/

Looks like some african country like suitation. Sekaram bus vedugapa

Hello Dr Vijay, the Health Minister, Pl send a team of family planning Doctors to that area. Very urgent please.

this is called underground tsunami connected from Bay Bengal and this tsunami has entry at Tamilnadu Kodiakarai/Ramnad coast and exit at Mullai periyar dam in Kerala

:lol::lol:

http://i43.tinypic.com/k0gfvd.jpg

seems even educated people on the other side is embracing such foolish graphics..:lol:

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/562/karna.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/191/karna.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

seems even educated people on the other side is embracing such foolish graphics..:lol:

I did a deep analysis on their aggression towards this issue along with other issues with them. Its all got aggrevated from 2004. Around that time only Shakila left their industry and start acting in comedy scenes in our industry. So, I think they'll keep quiet if we send Shakila back. :) . Fun intended

Draft Approach Paper for 12th Five Year Plan for Tamil Nadu

http://www.tn.gov.in/spc/pdfs/Draft_Approach%20Paper_TN_ver1.pdf

If you have any suggestions/feedbacks with regards to 12th Five yr plan draft for TN..

http://www.tn.gov.in/spc/feedback_12thplan.html

Arun jaitley in ET on fdi issue


http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/opinion/guest-writer/fdi-in-retail-improve-core-sector-trade-facilitation-first-says-arun-jaitley/articleshow/10924431.cms?curpg=2


The United States of America and the European Union have been demanders seeking that India permit Foreign Direct Investment in its retail trade.

India has obviously resisted the demand till date. Their object is that large international chain must control the food supply chain and the distribution of other items of daily utility in one of the world's largest markets, which accounts for over one-sixth of world's population.

In any trade negotiations, you seek counter-concession for concessions you grant. Increasingly, both the US and the European Union have become more protectionists. Without extracting any concession back, we have taken a unilateral decision, gifting to their retailers the right to control the distribution network in India.

It is good to be a reformist. Traditionally, a lot of us find ourselves on the side of reforms but every change is not a reform. Changes which may end up hurting domestic interests are really counter-reforms. The time for allowing FDI in retail sector in India has still not come.

In recent years, both small and organised retails have grown. A significant investment is being made year after year. The pace at which domestic retail is growing is modest and it is able to co-exist with small retail.

However, at this stage, if international retail majors are permitted the consequences will be adverse. The first consequence will be an adverse impact on domestic manufacturing. Domestic retailers source domestically. International retailers operate on the principle of buying internationally at the cheapest cost.

Majority items to be sold by international retailers are going to be sourced from cheaper manufacturing economies like China. Clothes, shoes, toiletries and other items of daily use are not likely to bear Indian signature. The fall in manufacturing sector jobs is likely. India needs manufacturing sector reforms in the first instance, so as to enable us develop into low-cost manufacturing economy.

For this, we need to improve infrastructure, low-cost utilities, competitive interest rates and trade facilitation. Once these reforms bring down the cost of our manufacturing goods, we can expect global retailers to source domestically. In the absence of these reforms, international retailers will be selling the products of low-cost economies, leading to an adverse setback to our already challenged manufacturing sector. The character of the Indian economy is service-sector oriented. The latest NSSO survey shows a loss in employment.

Self-employment continues to be the largest single source of bread earning. Agriculture and retail are the largest job providers in India. Is international retail going to give additional jobs, or is it only going to displace existing jobs? If purchasing power increases with the expansion of Indian economy, it will reflect in the co-existence of structured organised domestic retail and small retail. International retailers with deeper pockets will displace existing jobs in the retail sector, rather than creating additional jobs.

A fragmented market is always in consumer interest. A consolidated market restricts the consumer choices. Thus, if the number of establishments is reduced and consumer options are eliminated, structured retail is hardly likely to serve consumer interests. It can even lead to international retailers with deeper pockets to first sell at low prices, eliminate competition and then exploit the consumers. The consequences of predatory pricing can always be felt.


The Chinese example is thoroughly misconceived. The international retailers like Walmart source their products from China, which they also sell in China and a large number of other countries. China gains hugely because its products are sold all over the world. It can hardly argue that you must source the products from China but not sell in China.

Much is being made out of the backend infrastructure like cold chains will develop only when international retailers enter India. Cold Chain is neither a rocket science nor a proprietary technology. It seems bizarre that in order to set up a chain of cold storages it can be suggested that food distribution chain of India be handed over to corporations controlled by foreign entities.

The farm-gate to the factorygate argument is based on the logic that once middle-men are eliminated, the farmer will get more and the products will become cheaper.

The only agricultural product in the domestic market, which currently follows the farm-gate to factory-gate principle, is sugarcane. If only the market forces operate without the help of a state-advised price, the cane growers would have been put to starvation. If the farmer does prosper on account of international retailers then why it is that the farmers in the US and the EU have to be subsidised to an extent of $1 billion each day.

FDI in retail cannot be introduced merely as a knee-jerk response because the government is suspected to have abandoned economic reforms. We are not opposed either to the concept of FDI or giving an additional thrust to the reform programme. Changes which hurt the Indian economy can hardly be termed as reforms.

http://centreright.in/2011/11/opposing-fdi-does-not-make-me-a-leftist/#.TtXXGLJzM9I


The raging debate on the proposed opening of FDI in Retail sector has degenerated into the usual name-calling.

Anyone opposing the move is termed ‘parochial’, ‘xenophobic’, ‘leftist’ (yes, I do treat it as an insult if anyone calls me that!). I am making an argument here that why opposing FDI does not make me a leftist. A good starting point would be to put the importance of Retail sector in India in context, with some global comparisons.

India’s rank in every key global comparison – doctors per 1000 population, per capita consumption of sugar, amount of paper / steel / cement / power consumed per 1000 population – all are ranked at between 100 and 150 among the comity of 190 countries in the world! But in number of retail outlets per 1000 population, India ranks 1st in the world! See the data below:

Country Number of retail outlets per Thousand Population
USA 3.8 (down from 6.1 in 1992)
Canada 0.9
Germany 5.9
UK 6.1
India 11 (up from 5.6 in 1996)
Source: US Census Bureau, Columbia University research paper, Wikipedia

The data makes one wonder ‘Why, in this sector alone, India is an outlier in global comparison’?

The answer is: Retail industry in India is a huge source of self-employment. For large sections of semi-literate and illiterate population, the lack of opportunities for growth in manufacturing sector and dwindling returns in agriculture has left retailing (aka trading) as the only meaningful option to sustain their livelihood.

These miniaturised shops, 96% of which operate at less than 500 sqft. and with a vast majority of them mushrooming in emerging sub-urban localities and across the towns and villages, have been a significant source of self-employment for the bottom half of the population. (To call many of them as ‘entrepreneurs’ is a travesty. Most of them do this for a livelihood and keep themselves out of poverty, not for creating a large business that can list in a stock exchange some day!)

Depriving them of this livelihood and saying that ‘they can seek employment in Carrefour or Tesco if their shop closes down’ to someone who can barely speak anything outside his native language is like saying ‘if they don’t have bread, let them eat cakes’! We all know what happened after that, don’t we?

The above data also demolishes another favourite inanity by many ‘pro-reform’ columnists that “opening FDI in retail will increase choice for customers”! How can Big Retailers from countries where consumers have less choice today, offer more choices to consumers in India when the number of choice to Indian consumer is already the highest in the world?

Retail sector is our Holy Cow

I am all for competition and free markets, which has improved the livelihoods of millions of people in India in the last 20 years. But then, the last 3 years have been testing times for proponents of free markets across the globe and many ‘protectionists’ have come out of the closet and have argued for placing restrictions on capital flows and trade flows.

Even in normal times, every country has its own holy cow subjects that are not open to foreign competition. Energy sector in US, Telecommunications in Japan or Fisheries in Australia [Check references 2 & 3] are classic examples of such ‘protectionism’ in countries that are otherwise paragons of the virtue of ‘free market’.

A OECD study [Check reference 1] looked at 28 OECD countries in terms of their FDI restrictions; and found that not a single country is fully open; while UK and Netherlands fare reasonably well on ‘openness to FDI’, the other end contains countries such as Japan, Korea, Australia and Canada that have several sectors that have prohibitions or restrictions on foreign ownership!

Retail sector is India’s holy cow, given the enormity of size of the sector and the number of livelihoods that are dependent on the sector. Terming this as ‘leftist rant’ only shows the shallow understanding of how the governments of the day go all out to protect their sectors of vital interest.


Some existing retail players are just looking to sell and encash their holdings (atleast 51% now, and the rest later) and get the hell out of the sector!
Indian Organized Retail Vs. Global Players

The overwhelming support that this proposal has got from Biriyanis and Arrownails (ask your Tamil friend to translate) should surprise everyone – those who object as well as those who support this move. “Why will existing Indian retail players welcome this move to increase competition?”

The answer lies in the fact that Indian retail industry is intensely competitive, and the existing players are barely able to survive, with already few big ones biting the dust. The remaining ones are just looking to sell and encash their holdings (atleast 51% now, and the rest later) and get the hell out of the sector.

Only unfair competitive practices such as predatory pricing to sustain losses for a limited period to kill local competition – which are well-rehearsed in country after country by Big-box retailers – can shake the incumbent players who operate at wafer-thin overheads. So, comparing domestic Organized Retail players with MNC retail companies – as is repeatedly done by semi-literate TV anchors in late evening shows these days – only shows the shallow understanding of the sector.

I may be accused of generalizing, and there may be many mid-size retailers who compete in a fair manner, but then policy initiatives do not allow for such ‘subjective scrutiny’ before allowing entry.

Another example there that I am not a leftist; I am all for domestic industrial houses entering the retail segment and compete fairly against the incumbent players.

Cold storage and back-end infrastructure

A carrot that is dangled by the Government in its advertisements to justify FDI in retail, as well as many other columnists supporting the move have cited the investment that FDI can help in cold storage and back-end infrastructure, as reasons to justify FDI in retail.

Apparently, this minimizes wastage (which, in some perishables are as high as 40% of the produce) and thereby helps improve the economics for everyone across the chain – from farmers to retailers to consumers. What many of them do not realize is, this segment is already long open for FDI – the cash & carry segment is open for FDI for 14 years now!

Except for the front-end retailing, the value chain for sourcing, transportation, storage, and wholesale distribution is open for any amount of FDI. So the argument that FDI in Retail is a must to improve this chain and reduce wastages is a specious one!

One more example that I am not a leftist; I would any day lay a red-carpet welcome to any FDI coming into the back-end infrastructure. My poor brethren can source from such ‘cash & carry’ outlets and retail it to consumers to sustain their livelihood in an honourable manner.

Financial inclusion – the Big Chasm

One key handicap that Indian small retail industry faces is the poor access to capital. Many of them operate with loans borrowed at usurious interest rates from money-lenders, because of the lack of financial inclusion in the mainstream financial sector.

In contrast, MNC retailers can avail unending source of ultra-low cost (or even free) debt capital from their parents through low-cost External Commercial Borrowings, which even large Indian organized retailers cannot boast of! This single unfair competitive landscape, if corrected through rigorous financial inclusion measures, can help Indian small retailers to compete with any player across the world and give them a run for their money!

References:

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/24/35/2956455.pdf
http://www.treasurer.gov.au/DisplayDocs.aspx?doc=pressreleases/2011/129.htm&pageID=003&min=brs&Year=&DocType=
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/02/AR2005080200404.html

Murasoli Maran, commerce & industry minister during the NDA regime, had moved a note for the group of ministers, proposing that the government allow 100% foreign direct investment in retail trade. Maran was a key ideologue of the DMK, the party which broke ranks with the UPA government which permitted 51% FDI in multi-brand retail last week.

The note written on May 14, 2002 had strongly backed FDI and said that the department of consumer affairs had been consulted. The emerged from a decision of the Atal Bihari Vajpayee government to review FDI caps for all sectors.

That cabinet note circulated was rejected.

Today DMK has supported govt in parliament against adjournment motion brought against fdi in retail.

DMK will only do paper sound. will say yes to whatever annai says. And our friends call these politicos powerful

MMS himself opposed FDI in rajya sabha as opposition leader

The following is from superior canadian technology. yes yes, canadian dam association only



Rockfill buttressing resting on the downstream face of masonry or concrete gravity dams is often considered as a possible
strengthening method to improve the stability of existing dams for hydrological or seismic loads (Figure 1). Joux dam (Figure
1a), a French masonry structure of slender profile dating from 1905, has been heightened in 1952 by a top concrete section
and post-tension anchors (Francq 1993). Rockfill buttressing was used in 1983 to replace the post-tension anchors that were
weakened by corrosion. Upper Glendevon gravity dam (45m; Figure 1b) in U.K. has been provided with a rockfill buttress on
its downstream face to improve its seismic stability that was considered inadequate specially in the presence of leaking
vertical monolith joints and horizontal construction joints leading to significant uplift pressures (Kerr 1995). A 10mm thick
bituminous slip membrane was installed at the concrete rockfill interface to reduce the interface friction angle and therefore
maximize the horizontal thrust provided by the rockfill. The objective of the slip membrane was to reduce the tensile stresses
at the heel of the original dam. The rockfill stabilises the dam by exerting on the downstream face "earth pressures". The
horizontal earth pressure component is acting in the upstream direction, in opposition to the reservoir hydrostatic loads. This
lateral earth pressure component reduces the tensile stresses on the upstream face, and increases the shear strength along
potential failure planes in the dam.

In 1984, the Secretary of the Interior approved the modification of Roosevelt Dam as a part of the Central Arizona Project's Plan 6. Modifications were designed to meet Safety of Dams standards and for flood control purposes. Engineers had determined that the dam could not safely release water during a maximum flood event. In addition, an event called a maximum credible earthquake occurring near the dam could potentially cause it to fail. Subsequent to the modifications begun in 1989 and completed in 1996, Roosevelt Dam has a completely altered appearance. The original rubble-masonry gravity arch dam is now encased in a new concrete block structure. The original dam had a structural height of 280 feet and measured 723 feet long at the crest; the dam now has a structural height of 357 feet and a crest length of 1,210 feet. After modifications, the dam no longer retained integrity of design, materials, workmanship, feeling, or association.

Rehabilitation of the 95-year-old dam was complicated by its masonry construction. Problems included weak mortar joints, cracks and faults in the underlying bedrock, and numerous old tunnels that had to be plugged in its foundation.

Modifications to Roosevelt Dam now allow drainage to the dam's foundation to protect against earthquake failure, along with added low-level outlet capacity

Rehabilitation of the 95-year-old dam was complicated by its masonry construction. Problems included weak mortar joints, cracks and faults in the underlying bedrock, and numerous old tunnels that had to be plugged in its foundation.

Modifications to Roosevelt Dam now allow drainage to the dam's foundation to protect against earthquake failure, along with added low-level outlet capacity



கனமழை காரணமாக முல்லைப் பெரியாறு அணை 136 அடியை எட்டியவுடன், கேரள மக்களிடம் பீதியை ஏற்படுத்தும் முயற்சிகளும், இந்தத் தருணத்தை அரசியலாக்கும் முயற்சிகளும் தொடங்கிவிட்டன.
முல்லைப் பெரியாறு அணையின் மொத்த உயரம் 155 அடி. 1979-ம் ஆண்டு வரை இந்த அணையில் எந்தப் பிரச்னையும் இல்லாமல் 152 அடி உயரம் வரை தண்ணீர் தேக்கப்பட்டு வந்தது. ஆனால், அணைப் பகுதியில் நிலநடுக்கம் என்ற தவறான செய்தி ஏற்படுத்திய பீதியின் காரணமாக, நீரைத் தேக்கிவைக்கும் அளவை 136 அடி உயரமாகக் குறைத்துக்கொள்ள தமிழக அரசு முன்வந்தது. இப்போது இந்த 136 அடியை தண்ணீர் எட்டியதும், அணை உறுதியாக இருப்பது தானே அம்பலப்பட்டுவிடுமே என்கின்ற பயம் அங்குள்ள அரசியல்வாதிகளுக்கு ஏற்பட்டுவிட்டது.
அணை பலமாக இருக்கிறது என்பதற்கு அதன் நீர்க்கசிவு அளவு ஒரு முக்கிய சான்றாகும். அணையின் நீரை தொடர்ந்து 136 அடிக்குப் பல நாள்கள் தேக்கி வைக்கும்போது, கசியும் நீரின் அளவைத் தொடர்ந்து நாள்தோறும் பதிவு செய்து, அணை இப்போதும் மிக உறுதியாக இருப்பதை மக்களுக்கு உணர்த்துவதுடன் மத்திய அரசுக்கும் நீதிமன்றத்துக்கும் அதைச் சான்றாக காட்டிவிடுவார்களோ என்ற அச்சம் கேரள அரசியல்வாதிகளுக்கு ஏற்பட்டுவிட்டது. அணை வலுவாக இருக்கிறது என்பது உறுதியாகிவிட்டால், நீதிமன்றத் தீர்ப்பின்படி 142 அடிக்கு உயர்த்தும் நியாயத்தைப் பற்றி தமிழகம் பேசக்கூடுமே என்கிற அச்சமும்தான் இவர்களது இப்போதைய கூக்குரலின் பின்புல உண்மை.
இடுக்கியைச் சேர்ந்த முல்லைப் பெரியாறு போராட்டக் குழு, இதுநாள் வரையிலும் முல்லைப் பெரியாறு அணை இடிக்கப்பட வேண்டும் என்றும் புதிய அணையைக் கட்ட வேண்டும் என்றும் கூறிவந்தது. இப்போது தனது நிலையை மாற்றிக்கொண்டு, புதிய அணையைக் கட்டக்கூடாது, பழைய அணையையும் இடிக்க வேண்டும் என்கிறது. இடுக்கி எம்எல்ஏ சாலை மறியல் செய்கிறார். எம்பி-க்களும், கேரள பாசனத் துறை அமைச்சரும் தில்லிக்கு விரைந்துள்ளார்கள். மத்திய அமைச்சர் ஏ.கே. அந்தோனியுடன் பிரதமரைச் சந்திக்கவுள்ளார்கள்.
புனல் மின்நிலையத்துக்காக கேரள அரசு கட்டியுள்ள இடுக்கி அணைக்கு, போதுமான தண்ணீர் கிடைக்காததால் மின்உற்பத்தி பாதிக்கப்படுகிறது என்ற ஒரே காரணத்துக்காக, முல்லைப் பெரியாறு அணைக்கு கேரளம் எதிர்ப்புத் தெரிவிக்கத் தொடங்கியது என்பதுதான் இந்தப் பிரச்னையின் அடிப்படையே.
முல்லைப் பெரியாறு அணை வலுவிழந்துவிட்டதாகக் குற்றச்சாட்டு ஏற்பட்டபோது, வல்லுநர்கள் குழு இந்த அணை பாதுகாப்புடன் இருப்பதைக் கூறியும்கூட, கேரள அரசு வேண்டுமென்றே அச்சம் தெரிவித்தது. மேலும் பல கோடி ரூபாய் செலவில் அணை பலப்படுத்தப்பட்டது. நிலநடுக்கம் ஏற்பட்டாலும் அணைக்குச் சேதம் ஏற்படாத வகையில் புதிய தொழில்நுட்பத்தில் அணையைப் பலப்படுத்தினார்கள் என்பதுதான் உண்மை.
நீதிமன்றம் குறிப்பிட்ட அனைத்துப் பாதுகாப்புப் பணிகளையும் செய்து முடித்து, முல்லைப் பெரியாறு பேபி டேம் பகுதியில் மிகச் சிறிய பணியையும் செய்து முடிக்க முற்பட்டபோது, அதை முடித்துவிட்டால் நீதிமன்றம் கூறிய அனைத்தையும் தமிழகம் செய்துவிட்டதாக ஆகிவிடுமே என்று அஞ்சி, கேரள வனத்துறை அதிகாரிகளைக் கொண்டு, அந்தப் பணியைத் தடுத்து வருகிறார்கள் கேரள அரசின் தரப்பினர்.
கேரளத்தில் தமிழர் நலனுக்கு எதிராகவும் முல்லைப் பெரியாறு அணைக்கு எதிராகவும் பரப்பப்படும் பொய்யுரைகளுக்கு தமிழக அரசு என்ன செய்யப்போகிறது?
படித்த தமிழர்களே இந்தப் பிரச்னையைப் புரிந்துகொள்ளாத நிலையில், பாமரருக்கு எங்கே புரியும் என்கின்ற நினைப்பைத் தகர்த்தெறிந்துள்ளது தமிழ்நாடு பொதுப்பணித்துறை மூத்த பொறியாளர்கள் சங்கம் தயாரித்துள்ள, அரை மணிநேரம் ஓடக்கூடிய ஆவணப்படம். முல்லைப்பெரியாறு- பிரச்னையும் தீர்வும் என்ற இந்த ஆவணப்படம் இணைய தளத்திலும் (http://player.vimeo.com/video/18283950?***********)காணக் கிடைக்கிறது.
இதற்கு மேலாகச் சிறப்பாகவும், தெளிவாகவும், எளிய பாமரனும் புரிந்துகொள்ளும் வகையிலும் இன்னொரு ஆவணப்படம் எடுக்க வேண்டிய அவசியம் தமிழக அரசுக்கு இல்லை. இந்த ஆவணப்படத்தையே அனைத்துத் திரையரங்குகளிலும் திரைப்படத்துக்கு முன்பாக திரையிடக் கட்டாயப்படுத்தலாம். தமிழ்நாட்டில் உள்ள அனைத்துத் தனியார் தொலைக்காட்சிகளையும் கட்டாயம் ஒளிபரப்பச் செய்யலாம். செய்தி மக்கள் தொடர்புத்துறை மூலம் கிராமங்களில் திரையிடலாம்.
முல்லைப் பெரியாறு பிரச்னையை வேண்டுமென்றே பெரிதாக்கிக் கேரளம் பீதியைக் கிளப்புவதற்கு அடிப்படைக் காரணம், இடுக்கிக்கு அதிக நீர்வரத்து ஏற்படுத்தி மின்சார உற்பத்தியைக் கூட்ட வேண்டும் என்பதால்தான். தமிழகம் தாங்களே இன்னொரு அணையைக் கட்டி விடுகிறோம் என்று சொல்லிவிட்டால் என்ன செய்வது என்பதை முன்கூட்டியே தடுப்பதற்காக வேறு அணை கூடாது என்கிற கோஷத்தையும் எழுப்பி விட்டார்கள்.
அங்கே கட்சி மாச்சரியங்களை மறந்து அனைவரும் கைகோத்துத் தமிழகத்துக்கு எதிராக சதி செய்கிறார்கள். இங்கே நான் திமுக, நீ அதிமுக, அவன் தேமுதிக, இவன் மதிமுக, காங்கிரஸ்,கம்யூனிஸ்ட், பாஜக என்று தமிழுணர்வே இல்லாமல் அரசியல் ரீதியாகப் பிரிந்து கிடக்கிறோம். கரை வேட்டிகள் அவிழ்த்தெறியப்பட்டால் மட்டுமே தமிழகம் ஒன்றுபடும் சாத்தியம் போலிருக்கிறது.
மத்திய அரசிடம் ஒரு கேள்வி. பல ஆண்டுகளாக இருந்துவரும் உறுதியான அணை உடைந்துவிடும் என்று கேரளம் பயப்படுவதை, அவர்களது உணர்வுகளை மதிக்க முற்படும்போது, நீங்கள் கூடங்குளத்தைச் சுற்றி வாழும் தமிழர்களின் நியாயமான அச்சத்துக்கும், தமிழர்களின் உணர்வுகளுக்கும் மட்டும் செவிசாய்க்க மறுப்பதன் ரகசியம்தான் என்ன? மலையாளிகளுக்கு இருக்கும் அச்சமும், பீதியும், தமிழனுக்குக் கிடையாதா? தமிழர்கள் உணர்ச்சியற்ற ஜடங்களா? ஏன் இந்த ஓரவஞ்சனை?

நடிகர் ரவீந்தர் தலைமையில் கோவாவில் மலையாள பத்திரிக்கையாளர்கள் அடாவடி- தமிழகத்தினர் பதிலடி!

சென்னை: கோவாவில் நடந்து வரும் 42வது சர்வதேச திரைப்பட விழாவில் தமிழ் சினிமாவில் நடித்துப் பிரபலமான கேரளாவைச் சேர்ந்த நடிகர் ரவீந்தர் தலைமையில் கேரளத்து பத்திரிக்கையாளர்கள் சிலர் கூடி ஊர்வலமாகப் போய் முல்லைப் பெரியாறு அணை இடியப் போகிறது என்று கோஷமிட்டனர். இதைப் பார்த்து கொந்தளித்து விழாவுக்கு வந்திருந்த பல்வேறு திரைப்படக் கல்லூரிகளைச் சேர்ந்த தமிழ் மாணவர்கள், உங்களுக்கு ஏன் இந்தக் கொலை வெறி என்ற கோஷத்துடன் பதிலடி ஊர்வலம் நடத்தியதால் பெரும் பரபரப்பு ஏற்பட்டது.

திடீரென 50க்கும் மேற்பட்ட தமி்ழ் மாணவர்கள் கூடியதால், மலையாளத்துப் பத்திரிக்கையாளர்கள் அதிர்ச்சி அடைந்தனர்.

பனாஜியில் 42வது சர்வதேச திரைப்பட விழா நடந்து வருகிறது. இதில் டேம் 999 படத்தைத் திரையிட கேரளாவைச் சேர்ந்த சிலர் முயற்சித்தனர். ஆனால் அதை தமிழகத்தைச் சேர்ந்தவர்கள் முறியடித்து விட்டனர்.

இந்த நிலையில் நேற்று மதியம் திடீரென கேரளாவைச் சேர்ந்த பத்திரிக்கையாளர்கள் 30 பேர் கூடி ஊர்வலமாக சென்றனர். முல்லைப் பெரியாறு அணை இடியப் போகிறது. அதை இடிக்க வேண்டும் என்று அவர்கள் கோஷமிட்டனர். இந்த திடீர் போராட்டத்திற்குத் தலைமை தாங்கியவர் நடிகர் ரவீந்தர்.

இவர் வேறு யாருமல்ல, ஒரு தலைராகம், சகலகலாவல்லவன், தங்கமகன் உள்ளிட்ட ஏகப்பட்ட தமிழ்ப் படங்களில் அந்தக் காலத்தில் வில்லனாக நடித்தவர். தமிழ் சினிமாவில் நடிக்கப் போய்த்தான் இவர் பிரபல நடிகராக மாறினார். அடிப்படையில் இவர் கேரளாவைச் சேர்ந்தவர் ஆவார்.

இந்தத் திடீர் போராட்டத்தைப் பார்த்து வெகுண்டனர், விழாவுக்கு வந்திருந்த பல்வேறு பகுதி திரைப்படக் கல்லூரிகளைச் சேர்ந்த தமிழ் மாணவர்கள். அதிரடியாக 50க்கும் மேற்பட்டோர் கூடி, அவர்களும் ஒரு ஊர்வலத்தை நடத்தினர்.

8 ஆயிரம் ஏக்கர் விளைநிலம், 3 கோடி மக்கள் வறட்சியில் சாகும் அவலத்தைத் தடுக்க வேண்டும், முல்லைப் பெரியாறு அணையைக் காக்க வேண்டும், அணையைச் சிதைப்பது, இந்திய ஒற்றுமையைச் சிதைத்துவிடும், அன்பிற்குரிய கேரள மக்கள், சுப்ரீம் கோர்ட்டு உத்தரவை ஏற்க வேண்டும், அன்பிற்குரிய கேரள மக்களே! ஏன் இந்த கொலைவெறி? என்று அவர்கள் கோஷமிட்டதால் கேரள போராட்டக்குழுவினர் அதிர்ச்சி அடைந்தனர். இந்தப் போராட்டங்களால் விழா நடந்த இடத்தில் பரபரப்பும் தொற்றிக் கொண்டது.

அத்தோடு நிற்காத தமிழ் மாணவர்கள், அங்கு கூடியிருந்த சர்வதேச பத்திரிக்கையாளர்கள் இந்திய பத்திரி்ககையாளர்களை திரட்டி அவர்களிடம் முல்லைப் பெரியாறு அணை தொடர்பான உண்ணை நிலவரத்தை விளக்கிக் கூறினர்.

இதற்கிடையே போலீஸார் விரைந்து வந்து தமிழ் மாணவர்களைக் கலைந்து போகுமாறு கூறினர். ஆனால் முதலில் கேரள குழுவினரை கலைந்து போகச் சொல்லுங்கள். அவர்கள் போனால்தான் நாங்கள் போவோம். அவர்கள் போராட்டம் நடத்தினால் நாங்களும் நடத்துவோம் என்று உறுதிபடக் கூறி விட்டனர். இதையடுத்து கேரளக் குழுவினர் கலைந்து போனார்கள். அதன் பிறகே தமிழ் மாணவர்களும் கலைந்து சென்றனர்.

கேரளக் குழுவினரின் திடீர் போராட்டத்தால் நிலை குலைந்து போகாமல் டக்கென திரண்டு தமிழ் மாணவர்கள் நடத்திய பதிலடி போராட்டத்தால் அங்கிருந்தவர்கள் வியப்பில் மூழ்கினர்.

English summary: Noted Malayalam actor Ravindar and Malayalam journalists protested against Mullai Periyar dam in Goa film festival yesterday. But the proteste was thwarted by the Tamil students from various film institutes immediately.

http://tamil.oneindia.in/movies/news/2011/11/actor-ravindar-protest-against-mullai-periyar-dam-aid0091.html

Pavam Ravindarkku inni vada poche :lol: (no chance in kolly let him be in molly)

Question guys how easy or difficult to draw water from MP into TN if the level is only say 50 feet. Now TN says it can draw water only after 104ft?
How is the water pulled into the Tunnel that leads to TN.

I think, the Dam area is like a 30-60 degree set square. The Dam is at 60 degree end in the west side.TN side is in the 30 degree end- East. The tangent is the floor of the valley, sloping down from east to west. The tunnels to draw water may start at an elevation in the west side hill ,matching with 104 feet level in the dam at the deepest point where the dam is built.

Water impounded below 104 feet level mark may remain a dead strorage.

Kerala plans to build new one at 100 metres further down and want to maintain the same 136 feet storage. As the valley is sloping towards west, the vertical head available for TN to draw water may become almost negligible. Capacity of the dam is only around 14 TMC equivalent to Chennai lakes storage .

For e-g, if the valley drops down by 20 feet at the new dam site, 136-20= 116 feet.Head available will be 116-104= 12 feet, instead of present 136-104=32 feet. Originally it was 152-104=48 feet.

Net availablity will shrink very badly. Power production also will be down.

Solution: Wait till leakage in the Dam in the watch tunnel increase to danger zone, demolish and build a Dam to store water upto 155 feet or more as envisaged in 1885. This can be done by TN

Why India Should Stop Fearing Walmart
Posted by Jyoti Thottam Monday, November 28, 2011 at 11:37 am


Customers shop at a Best Price Modern Wholesale store, a joint venture of Walmart Stores Inc. and Bharti Enterprises, in Jammu, India, on Nov. 26, 2011. (Photo: Mukesh Gupta / Reuters)


India's Parliament is in the middle of a big political brawl over the issue of fully opening up its vast retail sector to foreign investors. It started last week, when the Cabinet approved a plan to open "multibrand retail" (i.e., supermarkets and stores that sell a variety of branded products) to 51% ownership, a move that has sparked a furious uproar in Parliament. The debate can be handily reduced to one question: Should India allow Walmart, the world's biggest retail company, free rein into the world's biggest untapped retail market?

The answer, according to opposition parties and even some within the Congress Party-led coalition, is an emphatic no — for the same reasons that Walmart arouses such ire around the world — the fear that faceless retail giants like Walmart, Carrefour and Tesco will crush the millions of small, family-owned kirana stores that dominate Indian retail. India's leftist parties, suspicious of any foreign multinational, have called for a nationwide strike on Dec. 1 in solidarity with the Confederation of All India Traders, who are among the most vocal opponents of full FDI in retail. The Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), India's largest opposition party, which once championed the opening of the Indian economy, is out in full rhetorical force. The BJP leader Uma Bharti publicly threatened to set fire to any Walmart that opens, a typically extreme position that even her allies on this issue have called "crazy talk."

Perhaps she hasn't noticed, but Walmart is already in India through the nine cash-and-carry stores it runs with its joint-venture partner, Bharti Retail (no relation to BJP's Bharti). Walmart also supplies fruits and vegetables to more than 100 Bharti supermarkets. TIME visited one of the cash-and-carry stores in Amritsar back in 2009, and the customers there were equivocal about this new kind of retail experience. It had a wider variety and larger quantity of some items, but lacked the personal touch. Here's how one shopper described her affection for the local kirana shop owner:

"He knows us so well," she says. "When my daughter went to America to study, he called to ask, 'Madam, is your daughter not home? You haven't been ordering cheese singles!' If I run out of shampoo or detergent, I can just phone him, and he'll send a boy with the stuff, free of charge."

Her comment is a telling one; whatever the romantic image of the local corner shop, they are no model of gainful retail employment, operating in open defiance of laws against child labor and offering meager wages and no benefits to employees. The "boy" who delivers stuff free of charge is often, literally, a boy. Walmart's international opponents have already lined up against them in India. Michael Bride, of the North American United Food & Commercial Workers' International Union, said in a statement, “We have seen the devastating effect that Walmart has upon workers, suppliers and small retailers, and we have a serious concern that, absent the right controls, the unfettered entry of Walmart to the Indian market could have devastating effects upon numerous stakeholders.” But this concern is misplaced. Small retailers in India already operate with such low overhead costs (by relying on informal labor and making minimal investment in any technology, even refrigeration) that it's hard for Walmart to compete with them. (India's traders have, however, invested in their relationships with state and local politicians, who count on their support around election time.) Elsewhere, Walmart may have pioneered the use of low-cost retail labor; in India, the cost of labor in retail is already about as low as it can get.

More important, the debate over Walmart's effect on retail employment misses a larger point. In India, the majority of the population is employed in agriculture, and Indian farmers stand to gain a lot from greater investment by anyone — foreign or domestic — in the supply chain that brings food from the field to the consumer. And food is the reason that Walmart wants to be in India. I interviewed Walmart executives in India for a story about Indian agriculture earlier this year, and they were very clear on that point. Indians are in the habit of shopping for their fruits and vegetables almost every day, and that's tantalizing — get the customer into the shop every day, and chances are she'll buy something extra. Building a Walmart-style supply chain of fruits and vegetables requires a lot of investment in improving the productivity and quality of farmers. Sometimes, those improvements are as basic as showing a tomato farmer how to improve his yields by using wooden stakes for his plants. That farmer doesn't have to sell his tomatoes to Walmart, but when he sees that he can get a better price, he often does. To woo farmers away from the system they are used to — selling produce at the local mandi, or market, at a price dictated by traders — Walmart has set itself a target of increasing farmers' incomes by 20% over five years. That's exactly the same strategy adopted by much smaller players, from rural NGOs to start-ups to social entrepreneurs: help farmers improve their productivity, so their incomes rise and consumers get better-quality produce. One easy fix that they have all used is to pick up the produce close to where the farmers live — the buyers get fresher produce while the farmer doesn't have to spend as much money on transportation.

The Indian food supply is so vast and so neglected (most farmers don't even have irrigation, let alone access to cold storage) that there is room for all of these players. Even if Walmart reaches its goal of building a network of 35,000 farmers by 2015, that's a tiny fraction of India's labor force of 450 million. India might be the only place in the world where even Walmart has trouble achieving scale.

Whether it does or not, the one system that is not working for Indian farmers is the current one. You can see it on display in the Azadpur mandi on the edge of New Delhi. This is a huge wholesale fruit-and-vegetable market supported by the Indian government's "mandi tax." By law, farmers are required to sell their produce only to approved mandis. (Walmart has to pay the mandi tax even when farmers sell to them.) They travel for hours to get here, and once they do, they have to take whatever price the wholesale buyer is willing to give. The buyers don't inspect the produce and offer better prices for better quality; they just sell the 100-kg sacks of vegetables to another set of middlemen, who break it into smaller lots that eventually find their way to vegetable vendors and the capital's thousands of small retailers. By the time it reaches the consumer, that produce will have been marked up by three to four times or more, but nearly all of that goes to the middlemen, not the farmer. Meanwhile, about 30% of the produce also spoils along the way for lack of cold storage, contributing to India's soaring food inflation.

India's traders and kirana shop owners have had more than six decades of protection from foreign competition, during which they have done little to improve the food supply for farmers on one end or consumers on the other. It's not surprising that they and their political allies object to anything that might change that.

Read more: http://globalspin.blogs.time.com/2011/11/28/why-india-should-stop-fearing-wal-mart/#ixzz1fE8a3gON

If the government allow FDI in retail with a condition like 70% of the things that is sold should be manufactured in India, will is satisfy the nay Sayers? Its like the car Industry.

Suspected Indian Mujahideen members Mohammed Irshad Khan (52) and Asif (23) of New Delhi allegedly visited Ritchie Street, Ranganathan Street and Parrys Corner, the most crowded market places in Chennai, last week, police sources said on Wednesday.

The two, accompanied by Abdul Rehman (19), a second year engineering student, went to Ritchie Street and purchased a laptop. “They probably gifted him the laptop for providing accommodation and logistics at Selaiyur. Rehman and Irshad belong to the same place in Bihar and got in touch with each other through a common friend. It could have also been a recce,” an investigator said.

Soon after the Delhi Police claimed to have busted a terror module of the Indian Mujahideen involving a few suspects, including Irshad, the Tamil Nadu police stepped up searches for Asif, who allegedly escaped from a house from where Irshad and Rehman were arrested on Sunday.

Director General of Police K. Ramanujam said Irshad was subjected to interrogation by a team comprising the Delhi Police, Intelligence Bureau and the Chennai Police. “There is definitely no sign of a design in Tamil Nadu,” he said.

Precautionary steps

The Chennai Police have intensified security arrangements following the arrest of Irshad. About 100 high-value targets were identified in the city where policemen were deployed as a precautionary measure. Plainclothesmen were posted at railway stations, malls and places of worship. All hotel/lodge authorities were told to ensure the identity of guests. Vehicle checks and night patrolling would be stepped up during the run-up to the Babri Masjid demolition anniversary on December 6.

“Since there is information that Irshad and Asif visited a few places in the city, we are going through the recordings of Closed Circuit Television (CCTV) network there. Surveillance cameras were installed on the Ritchie Street a month ago,” a senior police officer said.

Asked whether the suspects met students of a engineering college here and indoctrinated them, the officer said the police made enquiries with some students and found that no such activity took place.

...............................

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/article2675291.ece

We have to be careful and watch with immigrants. Tn doesnt have this brainwashing toa large extent.

but they can easily form sleeper cells with such people.

last time when the BAD series went, C was the first atrget. but they couldnt activate many sleeper cells in chennai, hence thought it a risk. and deferred it only for building a good network.

Our IB needs to be keep ears and eyes open. mix human int with electronic surveillance.

previous govt allowed state ib to be mess and did nothing. hope this lady is alert.

add to it, is per latest report a neigbhouring state is a hot bed for funding sources, training. Politics in that staate has meant, these have been allowed a free run.

They may not do any tricks there and bring attention, TN has to be hence on high alert.

LKA issue and this coming close on heels, only makes it utmost for TN to be alert.

AYLg%2BTIC

AYLg%2BTQC

AYLg%2BTwC

AYLg%2BUIC

Mullaperiyar Dam: Tamil Nadu takes Kerala to court for 'creating panic'


he battle between Tamil Nadu and Kerala over the Mullaperiyar dam saw new fire exchanged today.

The Chief Minister of Kerala has asked Tamil Nadu to lower the water level in the Mullaperiyar Dam, mainly for safety reasons - the structure is more than 100 years old and the region where it is located has seen several tremors lately - 20 since July. However, the Tamil Nadu government has taken its case to the Supreme Court. It has petitioned that "The Kerala government is spreading panic among the public about the safety of the Mullaperiyar Dam which is not true." J Jayalalithaa's government has asked the court to stop officials in Kerala from commenting on the possible construction of a new dam.

Cont....

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/mullaperiyar-dam-tamil-nadu-takes-kerala-to-court-for-creating-panic-154377

Height of self-confidence.

note pannungappa note pannungappa

http://tamil.oneindia.in/movies/interview/2011/12/namitha-criticises-vidya-balan-choice-the-dirty-picture-aid0136.html

கிளாமர்னா நான்தான்... எனக்கு ஆல்டர்நேட் கிடையாது! - நமீதா

Political differences, vested interests stalling India's progress - Tata

http://profit.ndtv.com/News/Article/political-differences-vested-interests-stalling-india-s-economic-progress-ratan-tata-293251?pfrom=home-otherstories

Ratan Tata, Chairman of the Tata Group, expressed concern over the political stalemate in the country on Thursday.



"Political differences and vested interests should never be allowed to stand in the way of India's economic progress,” Ratan Tata said in a twitter message.



His comments have come on the back of a deteriorating political and economic climate in the country. The opposition has been pushing for a vote on Foreign Direct Investment or FDI in retail over which Parliament remains paralysed. It is adjourned for the eighth day with no business transacted. The government has to either face a vote or suspend the decision to open up the retail sector for FDI.



In the midst of a political turbulence, the country's economic growth slipped to a two-year low. The Indian economy expanded by 6.9 per cent in the second quarter ending September 2011, the slowest pace of growth in the last nine quarters.



"India's growth rate has dropped to 6.9 per cent. The manufacturing growth dropped to 2.7 per cent - a two year low!" Ratan Tata tweeted.



A slowdown in the economy spells more troubles for the government especially because it hurts India's image as one of the top investment destinations across the globe. Foreign investors have been pulling out money from the Indian markets sensing troubles for the economy ahead.



"We should never let the extraordinary momentum achieved or the global visibility we had diminish," Ratan Tata said in one of the tweets.



"It would be a question of national pride for every Indian to rebuild the past glory and reestablish the country's economic leadership," Ratan Tata's tweet said.

Height of self-confidence.

note pannungappa note pannungappa

http://tamil.oneindia.in/movies/interview/2011/12/namitha-criticises-vidya-balan-choice-the-dirty-picture-aid0136.html

கிளாமர்னா நான்தான்... எனக்கு ஆல்டர்நேட் கிடையாது! - நமீதா

அவர் கூறுகையில், "'தி டர்ட்டி பிக்சர்’ படத்துல சில்க் கேரக்டருக்கு வித்யாபாலன் தப்பு சாய்ஸ்னு சொல்வேன். 'அந்த கேரக்டருக்கு நீதான் ஃபிட்’னு என் ஃப்ரெண்ட்ஸ் எல்லாம் சொல்லிச்சு. யோசிச்சா அதுதான் கரெக்ட். தமிழ்ல அந்தப் படத்தை யாராச்சும் எடுத்தா... நான் சூப்பர் கிளாமரா நடிப்பேன்.

என்னைப் பொறுத்தவரை எனக்குப் பிடிச்ச கிளாமர் நடிகை நான்தான். எனக்கு யாரும் ஆல்டர்னேட்டிவ் கிடையாது!'' என்று கூறியுள்ளார்.

:lol::lol:

for nellai

http://www.hindu.com/2010/01/23/stories/2010012354560200.htm

The partly dilapidated channel of Shenbagavalli Amman diversion veer in the jungles of Western Ghats near Sivagiri that ensured the copious inflow of water into more than 40 irrigation tanks in Sivagiri and Rajapalayam region till 1971 may get renovated in near future if the initiative taken by Collector M. Jayaraman fructifies.

The 7.50 metre-long diversion veer came into existence long back amidst the dense forest, 16 km west of ‘Sivagiri thalaiyanai’, after the Zamins of Sivagiri and Travancore reached an agreement to divert the water hitherto going waste to the irrigation tanks in Sivagiri and neighbouring Rajapalayam taluks through a 1,450 metre-long channel.

As the huge trees uprooted by flash floods in the Western Ghats damaged the channel (now in the Periyar Tiger Reserve formed by the Kerala Government) for about 30 metres in 1971, the beneficiary irrigation tanks fed by this canal went dry.

Following several representations from the farmers of Sivagiri and Rajapalayam areas to reconstruct the damaged portion of the channel, the Tamil Nadu Government reportedly handed over Rs. 5.15 lakh to the Government of Kerala in 1986 to renovate the smashed portion of the channel. However, the objections raised by the Forest Department of the neighbouring State prevented the government from taking up any construction activity inside the sanctuary area. And, the stalemate continues till now.

If the damaged channel is renovated, which may require Rs. 50 lakh now, it has been estimated that it would provide water for paddy or any other crop cultivated on over 15,000 acres and ultimately ensuring an attractive revenue of Rs. 45 crore a year.

When the agriculturists raised this issue in the monthly farmers’ grievance day meeting held at the Collectorate on Friday, Mr. Jayaraman said that even after a tender was floated in 1986 for doing the repair work, the effort did not show any progress further following various reasons.

“We should make an attempt now to repair the damaged channel either through ‘Namakku Naamaey’ scheme or by dialogue with the Kerala Government through proper channel,” he said.

why did they divide the state based on western ghats. Is the forest area supposed to be divided into two?

FIR against Stalin in land grab case, will he be arrested?


Chennai: A first information report (FIR) has been registered against DMK chief M Karunanidhi's younger son MK Stalin and Chennai is abuzz with speculation that he could be arrested. Mr Stalin, who is a former Deputy Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu, has been accused of coercing a man to sell his property in a prime Chennai locality to a member of his family at a reduced price.

Mr Stalin's son Udhayanidhi and four others have been named in the FIR too. It was registered on a complaint by a man, N S Kumar, on November 29, alleging that one of Mr Stalin's aides had forced him to sell his property at Chittaranjan Das Road in the Teynampet area, after getting his tenants to vacate the premises under threat, the police said.

Mr Stalin has denied this. He said it was a false case and he would fight it legally. "To divert people's attention from the price rise issue and case against Jayalalithaa, a false case has been foisted against me. I was expecting this false case. It's a bit delayed, so I am not surprised. I am ready to face the case with strength and bravery. I am not seeking exemptions like Jayalalithaa. For this government, FIR is not First Information Report, but Fraud Information Report. I am waiting to face the case," the DMK leader said.

The police said NS Kumar had alleged that he was forced to sell the property for Rs. 5.54 crore, which he claimed was lower than the market value, though he did not say what the price he expected was. Acting on the complaint, the Central Crime Branch registered a case against Mr Stalin, Mr Udhayanidhi and P Venugopalreddy, Raja Shankar, Subbareddy and Srinivas under various IPC sections including 120 B (criminal conspiracy) and 506 (criminal intimidation).

Several senior DMK leaders have been put behind bars recently on land grab charges; the DMK has called it political vendetta. But Chief Minister Jayalalithaa has defended these arrests saying they are based on genuine complaints.



http://www.ndtv.com/article/tamil-nadu/after-fir-karunanidhi-s-son-stalin-may-face-arrest-154542

TN vs Kerala on Mullaperiyar: The real issue is trust deficit

The crux of the recent dispute between Tamil Nadu and Kerala is the safety — or lack thereof — of the Mullaperiyar dam. The Kerala position is that the dam is old and in an earthquake-prone zone and will not be able to withstand major earthquakes. As a result, Kerala wants the existing dam demolished and a new one built.

The first question that arises, therefore, is: is the dam safe? “The safety …was vouched (for) by expert committees several times in the recent years, a guarantee accepted by the Supreme Court,” says a report in The Indian Express.

But what about earthquakes? Can the dam withstand an earthquake of a magnitude higher than 6 on the Richter scale. According to an IIT Roorkee report quoted by the Express, the dam may not be able to withstand it.

The Global Seismic Hazard Assessment Program (GSHAP), which was launched in 1992 by the International Lithosphere Program with the support of the International Council of Scientific Unions, developed maps depicting the seismicity and hazard levels of various zones. Both these maps, for the Indian region, do not suggest that the Idduki area, or, indeed Kerala, will experience earthquakes of magnitudes close to 6 on the Richter scale that IIT Roorkee suggests as being dangerous.


There are studies that Indian experts have conducted, and which the Supreme Court seems satisfied with, which suggest that the area around the dam does not face the risk of a high-intensity earthquake, which tends to support the Tamil Nadu stand on the issue.


Why is this then an issue at all? Is safety a bogey being raised by the Kerala side, or is there another side to the story?

The issue apparently is about control of the dam and its water. Kerala proposes that the existing dam be demolished and a new one built. The state government’s position is that, in the event of a major earthquake, if the Mullaperiyar dam breaks, three other dams in Kerala at Idukki, Cheruthoni and Kolamavu will also give way under the pressure of the water from the Mullaperiyar. As a result, 3.5 million people living in the danger zone in Kerala would be at risk.

If the Mullaperiyar is demolished, five districts in Tamil Nadu will immediately face a water shortage, as they are dependent on the water from Mullaperiyar.


While Kerala maintains that the amount of water that Tamil Nadu receives will be maintained, there is obviously a trust deficit. The Mullaperiyar dam, which is physically located in Kerala, is under the control of Tamil Nadu; the proposed replacement dam will be controlled by Kerala.

The Centre and the Supreme Court need to step in and speedily ensure that the safety aspect of the dam is addressed unambiguously. If the dam is found to be safe, all the arguments of Kerala evaporate instantly. If the dam is found to be unsafe, decisions need to be taken to ensure that Tamil Nadu continues to receive the quantum of water that it received from the Mullaperiyar.

“I am sure that, given goodwill on both sides, an amicable and mutually acceptable solution can be found out through a process of dialogue and communication,” said the prime minister on the issue on Thursday.

The problem is, there is no ‘goodwill on both sides’. The issue is one of water, one that concerns both states. Both states are making pronouncements keeping an eye on the water – and on the votes.

It’s the central government which needs to act – on the side of right, not on the side of the vote-banks. And it needs to do so without dithering – to prevent the Mullaperiyar issue from becoming another in a long list of unmanageable problems made worse by vacillation and a complete lack of decision-making.



http://www.firstpost.com/politics/tn-vs-kerala-on-mullaperiyar-the-real-issue-is-trust-deficit-146558.html

இப்படியும் நடக்கும்.

சவுக்கு
எழுத்தாளர் சவுக்கு
வெள்ளிக்கிழமை, 02 டிசம்பர் 2011 13:49

முதல் காட்சி : ஜெயலலிதா தனது அதிகாரிகள் மற்றும் அமைச்சர்களோடு ஆலோசனை நடத்துகிறார்.

Jun-22-d

(கூட்டம் தொடங்குகிறது. முதலமைச்சர் வருவதற்கு முன்பாகவே, சீப் செக்ரட்டரி தேபேந்திரநாத் சாரங்கி, உளவுத் துறை தலைவர் ராமானுஜம், அரசு தலைமை வழக்கறிஞர் நவனீதகிருஷ்ணன் முதலமைச்சரின் செயலாளர் ஷீலா ப்ரியா, உள்துறை செயலாளர் ரமேஷ்ராம் மிஷ்ரா, கமிஷனர் திரிபாதி மற்றும் அமைச்சர்கள் ஓ.பன்னீர்செல்வம், செங்கோட்டையன், ஆகியோர் உள்ளனர்.)



முதல்வர் உள்ளே நுழைகிறார். அனைவரும் எழுந்து நிற்கின்றனர்.



ஜெயலலிதா : எவ்ரிபடி சிட்டவுன். சொல்லுங்க மிஸ்டர் ராமானுஜம். லைப்ரரியை சைல்ட் ஹாஸ்பிடலா மாத்துனதுக்கு என்ன ரியக்ஷன்.



ராமானுஜம் : மேடம். பப்ளிக் ஒன்னும் வருத்தப் படல. பட், பொலிடிக்கல் ரியாக்ஷன் நெறய்ய இருக்கு. இன்டெர்நெட்டுல ப்ளாக்கர்ஸ் நெறய்ய தப்பா எழுதிருக்காங்க. அப்போது நவநீதகிருஷ்ணன் இடைமறித்து…



நவனீதகிருஷ்ணன்: நோ மேடம். நெறய்ய பேர் எனக்கு போன் பண்ணி, என் குழந்தைய எந்த ப்ளோர்ல அட்மிட் பண்ணணும்னு கேட்டுருக்காங்க. இன் பேக்ட், எனக்கு ஈவ்னிங்லேர்ந்து நெறய்ய சைல்ட் ஷ்பெஷலிஸ்ட் கிட்டேர்ந்து போன். எனக்கு அந்த ஹாஸ்பிட்டல்ல வேலை வாங்கிக் குடுங்கன்னு. உண்மையச் சொல்லனும்னா, அடுத்த வாரம் கல்யாணம் பண்ணப்போற ஒரு கப்புள் எங்களுக்கு குழந்தை பொறந்ததும் அந்த ஹாஸ்பிட்டல்லதான் அட்மிட் பண்ணனும்னு சொல்றாங்க…:lol::lol:



ஜெயலலிதா : குட்.. வெரி குட். இதுக்காகத்தான் இந்த ஸ்கீமை நான் அனவுன்ஸ் பண்ணேன். வாட் ஷீலா வாட் டூ யூ சே.



ஷீலா ப்ரியா : மேடம். ஆல் புக்ஸ் ஆர் வேஸ்ட் ஆப் மணி. இப்போ டாக்டர்ஸ் போஸ்டிங் போட்ற பைல்ஸ் என்கிட்ட வர்றதில்ல. நீங்க ஆர்டர் போட்டு டாக்டர்ஸ் போஸ்டிங் பைல் என்கிட்ட வர்ற மாதிரி பண்ணிங்கன்னா….



ஜெயலலிதா : தட் வில் பி டிசைடட் லேட்டர். ராம் மோகன் ராவ்… வாட் ஈஸ் யுவர் ஒபினியன்.



ராம் மோகன் ராவ் : மேடம். யுவர் ஒபினியன் ஈஸ் மை ஒபினியன். (மனதுக்குள். நம்பள மாதிரி யாருமே பதில் சொல்லிருக்க முடியாது.)



ஜெயலலிதா : ஓகே. ராமானுஜம்.. இந்த முடிவ நம்ப மாத்தணுமா ? லைப்ரரிய க்ளோஸ் பண்ணணுமா ?



ராமானுஜம் : க்ளோஸ் பண்ணிடலாம் மேடம்.



ஜெயலலிதா : லைப்ரரிய ஓபன் பண்ணணும்னு நோட் போட்டுருக்கீங்க ?:lol:



ராமானுஜம் : ஓபன் பண்ணிடலாம் மேடம்.


ஜெயலலிதா : வாட் நான்சென்ஸ் ?



ராமானுஜம் : மேடம் மார்னிங் ஓபன் பண்ணிட்டு, ஈவ்னிங் க்ளோஸ் பண்ணிடலாம்.:lol::lol:



ஜெயலலிதா : பன்னீர்செல்வம், நீங்க என்ன சொல்றீங்க….

(உடனே எழுந்து படீரென்று காலில் விழுகிறார்.) நோ… நோ… கெட் அப். பன்னீர்.. எமோஷன் ஆகாதீங்க… என்ன பண்ணலாம்னு சொல்லுங்க…



பன்னீர்செல்வம் : அம்மா… இந்த லைப்ரரி மட்டுமில்லாம, தமிழ்நாட்டுல இருக்கற எல்லா லைப்ரரியையும் க்ளோஸ் பண்ணிடலாம்மா..



ஜெயலலிதா : க்ளோஸ் பண்ணிட்டு… ?



பன்னீர் செல்வம்: எல்லா லைப்ரரிலயும் டீக்கடை ஓபன் பண்ணலாம்மா. சாதாரண டீக்கடை வச்சிருந்த என்னை முதலமைச்சர் பதவியில உக்கார வைச்சதே அந்த டீக்கடைதான். அதனால….:lol::lol:



ஜெயலலிதா : குட் ஐடியா.. பட் பேட் ஐடியா…. செங்கோட்டையன்… நீங்க என்ன சொல்றீங்க…



செங்கோட்டையன் அம்மா….. எல்லா புத்தகத்தையும் எடுத்து ஊறவைச்சு பேப்பர் கூழா செஞ்சு, அந்த கூழை வச்சு குழந்தைகளுக்கு பொம்மை செஞ்சு அந்த ஹாஸ்பிட்டலுக்கு வர்ற குழந்தைகளுக்கு வெளையாட குடுக்கலாம்மா………



ஜெயலலிதா : வெரி குட்…. ஐ லைக் இட்….. சீப் செக்ரட்டரி… நீங்க என்ன சொல்றீங்க…..



சீப் செக்ரட்டரி : மேடம். வி வில் க்ளோஸ் ஆல் லைப்ரரிஸ் மேடம். வாட் மேடம் சேஸ் ஈஸ் ரைட் மேடம்…



ஜெயலலிதா : நவனீதகிருஷ்ணன்…. நீங்க என்ன சொல்றீங்க….



நவனீதகிருஷ்ணன் மேடம்.. அந்த லைப்ரரி மொத்தத்தையும் அட்வகேட் ஜெனரல் க்வார்டர்ஸ் ஆக்கிடலாம்மா..:lol:



ஜெயலலிதா : வாட் நான்சென்ஸ்….. (அப்போது சசிகலாக உள்ளே நுழைகிறார்) சசி.. நீ என்ன சொல்ற ?



சசிகலா : அக்கா.. அந்த கட்டிடத்த பெங்களுர் கோர்ட் ஆக்கிடலாம்கா.. அப்பப்போ பெங்களுர் போறது கஷ்டமா இருக்கு.:rofl:



ஜெயலலிதா : ஓ.கே…. நெக்ஸ்ட். சீப் செக்ரட்டரி… நிதி நெலமை எப்படி இருக்கு ?



சாரங்கி : மேடம்.. ஒரு லட்சம் கோடி கடன் மேடம்…



ஜெயலலிதா : வாட் ஒரு லட்சம் கோடி கடனா… மை காட்… எப்படி இவ்வளவு கடன் வந்துச்சு ?



பன்னீர்செல்வம் : அம்மா மைனாரிட்டி திமுக அரசோட தலைவர் வாங்கி வச்சுட்டு போயிட்டாரும்மா… என்ன பண்றதுன்னே தெரியலம்மா….


ஜெயலலிதா : திஸ் ஈஸ் வெரி பேட்…. எப்படி சரி பண்றது ?



ஷீலா ப்ரியா : மேடம்.. பஸ் டிக்கெட், சினிமா டிக்கெட், ட்ரெயின் டிக்கெட், பார்க்கிங் டிக்கெட், எலெக்ட்ரிசிட்டி சார்ஜஸ், டெலிபோன் சார்ஜஸ், எல்லாத்தையும் 3 டைம்ஸ் ஏத்திடலாம். நெறய்ய ரெவின்யூ வரும்.:lol:



ராமானுஜம் : மேடம்.. மக்கள் கஷ்டப்படுவாங்க…..



பன்னீர்செல்வம் : அம்மா போன ஆட்சியில மக்கள் கஷ்டப்பட்டாங்கதான். ஐஞ்சு வருஷமா கஷ்டப் பட்டவங்களுக்கு இந்நேரம் பழகியிருக்காது ?



ஜெயலலிதா : யெஸ். இந்நேரம் பழகியிருக்கனும். இல்லேன்னா பழக்குவோம். வாட் டூ யு சே சாரங்கி.



சாரங்கி : யெஸ் மேடம். ஜனங்கள எப்படி ட்ரெயின் பண்றதுன்னு நானும் சில ஐஏஎஸ் ஆபீசர்சும் வேர்ல்ட் டூர் போயி பாத்துட்டு எப்பிடி ட்ரெயின் பண்றதுன்னு கத்துகிட்டு வர்றோம்.:lol::lol:



ஷீலா ப்ரியா : யெஸ் தட்ஸ் ய குட் ஐடியா. சிஎம் செக்ரட்ரி கூட போகலாம்.
:lol::lol:


ஜெயலலிதா : அத அப்புறம் பாத்துக்கலாம். மொதல்ல ஷீலா சொன்ன எல்லா ஐட்டம் விலையையும் ஏத்துங்க. இம்மிடியெட்டா.



சாரங்கி : மேடம். டெலிபோன் ட்ரெயின் டிக்கெட்டல்லாம் நம்ப ஏத்த முடியாது. அது சென்ட்ரல் கவர்ன்மென்ட்.


ஜெயலலிதா : ஓ.கே… மீதி ஐட்டமெல்லாம் உடனே ஏத்துங்க. மிஸ்டர்.திரிபாதி நில அபகரிப்பு வழக்கெல்லாம் எப்படி இருக்கு ?



திரிபாதி : மேடம் ப்யூடிபுல்லா போயிட்டு இருக்கு மேடம். இன்னைக்கு கூட ஃபார்மர் டெபுடி சிஎம் ஸ்டாலின் மேல கம்ப்ளெயின்ட் வந்துருக்கு மேடம்.



ஜெயலலிதா : ஏன் இன்னும் ரிஜிஸ்டர் பண்ணல ?



திரிபாதி : மேடம் கம்ப்ளெயின்ட் குடுத்த அதே ஆள், ஸ்டாலின் வைஃப் துர்கா, ஸ்டாலின் சிஸ்டர் செல்வி, ஸ்டாலின் வீட்டு வேலைக்காரர், அவங்க பக்கத்து வீட்டு நாய் மேல கூட கம்ப்ளெயின்ட் குடுக்கறதா சொன்னார். அதான் சேத்து ரிஜிஸ்டர் பண்ணலாம்னு வெயிட் பண்ணிகிட்டு இருக்கோம் மேடம்.:rofl:


ஜெயலலிதா : வேற ஏதாவது கம்ப்ளெயின்ட் இருக்கா ?



திரிபாதி : மேடம், திஹார் ஜெயில்ல இருந்தப்போ கனிமொழி கூட டெல்லியில நில அபகரிப்பு செஞ்சதா டெல்லியிலேர்ந்து என் பேட்ச் மேட் சொன்னார் மேடம். அத பாலோ பண்ணிக்கிட்டு இருக்கோம்.:lol::lol:



ஜெயலலிதா : குட். வெரி குட். உங்களுக்கு பதிலா ஜார்ஜ போடலாம்னு நெனைச்சேன். பட் யு ஆர் குட்..



திரிபாதி : தேங்க்யூ மேடம். வேற யார் மேல கேஸ் போடனும்னு சொல்லுங்க.. உடனே போடறேன் மேடம்.



சசிகலா : அக்கா. பெங்களுர் ஜட்ஜ் மேல கேஸ் போட சொல்லுங்கக்கா… அந்த ஆள் நம்பள ரொம்ப தொந்தரவு பண்றார்.
:rofl:


ஜெயலலிதா : வாட் டிஜிபி.. எப்போ போடப் போறீங்க.



ராமானுஜம் : நோ மேடம். நமக்கு அங்க ஜுரிஸ்டிக்ஷன் இல்ல.



ஜெயலலிதா : வாட் ஈஸ் திஸ்.. இதுக்காகத் தான் நான் நேஷனல் பாலிடிக்ஸ் போலாம்னு இருக்கேன். வெரி இர்ரிடேட்டிங்.



பன்னீர்செல்வம் : அம்மா டெல்லி போனீங்கன்னா, ராகுல் காந்தி மேல கூட கேஸ் போடலாம்மா…:lol::lol:



ஜெயலலிதா : யா யா.. வெரி நைஸ்.



(கூட்டம் முடிவடைகிறது)



அறியாலயம்



(
ஸ்டாலின், அன்பழகன், கருணாநிதி, வடிவேலு, துரைமுருகன், குஷ்பூ ஆகியோர் இருக்கின்றனர்)



ஸ்டாலின் : அப்பா.. கட்சிக் காரங்க மேலேல்லாம் ஏகப்பட்ட கேஸ் போட்ருக்காங்க.. ஏதாவது பண்ணனும்.



கருணாநிதி : ப்ளைட் எத்தனை மணிக்கு வருது ?



ஸ்டாலின் : (மனதுக்குள் நான் என்ன கேக்கறேன். இந்த ஆள் என்ன சொல்றார்) அருகில் இருந்த வடிவேலுவிடம். ஏன்யா… நான் சரியா பேசறேனா ?



வடிவேலு : அண்ணே.. பின்னுறீங்கன்ணே..



ஸ்டாலின் : அப்பா. ஏதாவது போராட்டம் அறிவிக்கனும்.


கருணாநிதி : ஏர்போர்ட்டுக்கு நானும் போகவா ?



ஸ்டாலின் : வடிவேலுவிடம்… ஏன்யா நான் சரியாத்தானே பேசறேன்..



வடிவேலு : அண்னே அருமையா பேசறீங்கன்ணே..


ஸ்டாலின் : அப்பா என் மேல கூட நில அபகரிப்பு வழக்கு போடப் போறாங்களாம்பா..



கருணாநிதி : ஜெட் ஏர்வேஸா…. கிங்பிஷரா ?



ஸ்டாலின் : எனக்கு வேணும்யா.. வேணும்…



குஷ்பூ : தலைவரே…. தளபதி என்னம்மோ சொல்றாரே..


கருணாநிதி : என்னம்மா… என்ன சொன்ன… ?


குஷ்பூ : தளபதி.. ஏதோ சொல்ல வர்றாரு..



கருணாநிதி : என்னப்பா சொல்லு..



ஸ்டாலின் : 60 வருஷமா உங்களுக்கு புள்ளையா இருந்ததுக்கு சொவத்துல போயி முட்டிக்கலாம்.:lol::lol:



கருணாநிதி : முட்டுறதுன்னா ஏர்போர்ட்ல போயி முட்டிட்டு அப்படியே தங்கச்சிய கூட்டிட்டு வா.:lol:


குஷ்பூ : தலைவரே… தளபதி போராட்டம் பன்னணும்கிறார்.



கருணாநிதி : பண்ணச் சொல்லு.. என் மக 6 மாசமா ஜெயில்ல வாடிக் கிடந்தப்போ ஏன் யாருமே போராட்டம் பண்ணல ?



ஸ்டாலின் : அப்பா… இப்போ நானும் ஜெயிலுக்கு போகப் போறேன்…



துரைமுருகன் : தலைவரே… மின் கட்டண உயரவ எதுத்து போராட்டம் பண்ணலாம் தலைவரே.



கருணாநிதி : பொதுச் செயலாளர் ரொம்ப நாளா அந்தப் பதவியில இருக்கறாரே.. அந்தப் பதவிய கொடுத்துடலாமா ?



அன்பழகன் : என்கிட்ட இருக்கறது அது ஒன்னுதான். அதயும் புடுங்கிடுங்க.



ஸ்டாலின் : குஷ்பூவைப் பார்த்து. நீங்களே சொல்லுங்க… என் மேல கேஸ் போட்ருக்காங்க.. என்ன பண்றது..



குஷ்பு : நீங்க பதிலுக்கு ஜெயலலிதா மேல லேண்ட் க்ராபிங் கம்ப்ளெயின்ட் குடுங்க.. சிம்பிள்.



ஸ்டாலின் : அருமையான ஐடியா.. இதுக்குத்தான் தலைவர் உங்கள பக்கத்துல வச்சுருக்காரு.



குஷ்பூ : ஒரு வேளை உங்கள அரெஸ்ட் பண்ணிட்டா கவலைப் படாதீங்க. நீங்க ஜெயில்லேர்ந்து வர்ற வரைக்கும் நான் பொருளாரா இருக்கேன்.:lol::lol:


கருணாநிதி : அதுக்கு எதுக்கும்மா ஸ்டாலின் ஜெயிலுக்கு போற வரைக்கும் வெயிட் பண்ற… நாளைக்கே பொதுக்குழுவை கூட்டிடலாமா …. ? என்னய்யா துரை முருகன்.:lol::rofl:



துரைமுருகன் : அருமையான யோசனை தலைவரே… கட்சிக்கு புது ரத்தம் பாய்ச்சுன மாதிரி இருக்கும்.



ஸ்டாலின் : நீங்க யாருமே வேணாம். நானே போயி ஜெயலலிதா மேல கம்ப்ளெயின்ட் குடுக்க போறேன்… என்னை அரெஸ்ட் பண்ணுங்கன்னு கேக்கப் போறேன். எல்லாரும் கனிமொழி பின்னாலயே போங்க.



துரைமுருகன் : தலைவரே.. தளபதி போறார் தலைவரே… அவரை தடுங்க.



கருணாநிதி : யோவ் விடுய்யா… இவன யாருய்யா அரெஸ்ட் பண்ணப் போறது.. இவன் அதுக்கெல்லாம் சரிப்பட்டு வரமாட்டான்னு எனக்கே தெரியுதே.. போலீசுக்கு தெரியாதா ?:rofl::rofl:



அன்பழகன் : ஏங்க… அம்மையார் ஆட்சியில விலைவாசி உயர்வால மக்கள் ரொம்ப கஷ்டப் பட்றாங்க. நாம ஏதாவது பண்ணனும். பாரம்பரியம் மிக்க திராவிட இயக்க கட்சியா இருந்துக்கிட்டு இந்த நேரத்துல மவுனமா இருந்தா நல்லா இருக்காது. ஏதாவது போராட்டம் அறிவிங்க.



கருணாநிதி : ப்ளைட் எத்தனை மணிக்கு ?

savukku.com

by-election is the reason why congress is blowing up mullai periyar dam issue now.

http://epaper.maalaimalar.com/2122011/epaperimages/2122011/2122011-md-hr-8/144421671.jpg

Neyyar, Shenbagavalli Dam

Cross posting from mullai periyar issue thread

Actually this article (Asianet (http://www.asianetindia.com/news/mullapperiyar-mdmk-block-road-kerala-today_158715.html))mentions that the Shenbagavalli dam (anaicut) is located in tirunelveli district in TN, but it is located close to TN-Kerala border well within Periyar Tiger reserve. It was built around 1777 and this dam is constructed to divert water to Tirunelveli district (Nellai). There is a kannika check dam canal which diverts water to tirunelveli district. The water that escapes this diversion flows into the periyar basin which flows into mullai periyar.The maintenance of this dam and the canal is completely taken care by KL government. But so far the KL govt purposefully abandoned the complete structure which lead to the demolishion of the check dam. So the water that was diverted for years to tirunelveli district was now directed towards mullai periyar dam. Nearly 30,00 acres in Nellai,tuticorin and virudhunagar was dependent on the water that is released from this canal for irrigation. There were repeated requests from TN side starting from 1986 to repair this structure to divert water to TN. The kerala govt after several considerations accepted to repair the dam during MGR period. It quoted an estimate and TN gave half the amount. But for 20 years nothing was done and during Achuthanandan's tenure, the money was returned back to TN stating that it can't perform any repair works.

Source: From pages 19,20 and 21 of this document

http://www.tn.gov.in/policynotes/pdf/pwd_irrigation.pdf

http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/6899/neyyar1.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/607/neyyar1.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/3416/shenbaga.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/10/shenbaga.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/5356/shenbaga2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/853/shenbaga2.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)





1) Why do the KL govt want to divert water to a dam that it claims unsafe (mullai periyar)? Then what is the rationale in claiming the dam to be unsafe ?

2) By repairing the shenbagavalli dam (from TNs money) it can provide water to TN through shenbagavalli dam and at the same time can prevent flooding? But why it is not interested in pursuing this potion?

3) When you say safety is the primary concern and when there is an option to divert water why is kerala so reluctant?

Also Tn govt have requested many-times whether it can carry out repair works in shenbagavalli dam. but so far no response from KL govt!

இப்படியும் நடக்கும்.

சவுக்கு
எழுத்தாளர் சவுக்கு
வெள்ளிக்கிழமை, 02 டிசம்பர் 2011 13:49

savukku.com


:rofl:

Thank you Arul for posting... It was quite interesting!

Letter from Jayalalithaa to Kerala Chief Minister Oommen Chandy


NDTV News - India
December 1, 2011 10:00:00 PM

Here is a letter from Tamil Nadu Chief Minister J Jayalalithaa to Kerala Chief Minister Oommen Chandy on the Mullaiperiyar dam issue. The letter is reproduced below:

"I have received your fax dated 1.12.2011. While I concur with your view that both our States have wide ranging mutuality of interests and co-operation on several fronts and these should be fostered notwithstanding legal disputes and technical issues pending in the Supreme Court of India, I would like to take this opportunity to bring to your notice unwarranted provocations from across the border and also our anxieties on the fear psychosis generated in Kerala.

May I draw your attention to the fact that the Hon'ble Supreme Court of India, after considering the report of the Expert Committee of the Government of India, ordered raising of the level of storage in the Mullai Periyar Dam to 142 feet? The Government of Kerala in order to nullify the Supreme Court order has amended the Kerala Irrigation and Water Conservation Act, 2003, in 2006, fixing the FRL level, the constitutional validity of which is before the Supreme Court of India. The Empowered Committee appointed under the Chairmanship of the former Chief Justice of India Thiru A.S.Anand, is looking into the safety of the dam.

The Government of Tamil Nadu had carried out a series of measures from 1980 to 1994 on the recommendations of the Chairman, Central Water Commission, to strengthen the dam and after all these measures have been carried out, the retrofitted Mullai Periyar Dam is as good as new. The Supreme Court of India had also factored this in while pronouncing its judgment in 2006, allowing Tamil Nadu initially to store water up to 142 feet.

Under the aegis of the Empowered Committee appointed by the Supreme Court, a series of studies/tests such as scanning the upstream face of the dam, testing the cable anchors, non-destructive tests have been conducted and some are in progress. Recently my Government has sanctioned Rs.1.38 crores for the core sample test alone.

Further, in your letter, you have indicated that there have been twenty two tremors in the last four months. As per the Indian Meteorological Department data, there have been only four mild tremors in the last four months, that too far away from the vicinity of the Mullai Periyar Dam site, which did not have any effect on the seepage in the dam. The seepage of the dam is well within the permissible limits as per the Indian Standards code. The possibility of tremors of even medium magnitude does not exist in the Mullai Periyar Dam site. The possibility of the Mullai Periyar Dam breaching due to flood waters and collapsing is not logical since all eventualities have been factored in during the strengthening of the dam.

While my Government and I would always seek to protect the safety and security of every Indian, we should also guard against unfounded fears overtaking reason and ground realities. Informed decision making at the Government level should be based on reason rather than on extraneous factors.

May I take this opportunity to request you to kindly ensure that the Government of Kerala abides by the order of the Hon'ble Supreme Court of India, which has taken into consideration all the safety aspects of the dam and allow the water level to be raised to 142 feet?

Please rest assured of my co-operation and goodwill."

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/letter-from-jayalalithaa-to-kerala-chief-minister-oommen-chandy-154498

[QUOTE=saysenthil;86253130]Letter from Jayalalithaa to Kerala Chief Minister Oommen Chandy


Good reply has been given by JJ. Let s see how this Chandy responds . If state Govts don t obey SC rulings, why should common man alone obey them

Kerala political parties using Mullaperiyar dam

கடந்த ஒரு மாதம் வரை முல்லைப் பெரியாறு அணை விவகாரத்தில் அமைதி காத்து வந்த கேரள காங்கிரஸ் முதல்வர் உம்மன் சாண்டியும், எதிர்க் கட்சிகளும் திடீரென அந்த விவகாரத்தைக் கிளப்பியுள்ளதற்கு அந்த மாநிலத்தில் நடக்கவுள்ள இடைத் தேர்தலே காரணம் என்று தெரியவந்துள்ளது.

டேம்999 படம் மூலமாக திடீரென இந்தப் பிரச்சனைக்கு பெரிய அளவில் முக்கியத்துவம் தந்தது கேரளா. இடைத் தேர்தலை மனதில் வைத்து படத்தையும் அதை ஒட்டி ரிலீஸ் செய்து தங்களது 'கேரள விவரத்தை' காட்டி வருகின்றனர் அந்த மாநில அரசியல்வாதிகள்.

இத்தனை நாளாய் சும்மா இருந்த சங்கை காங்கிரஸ் கட்சியும் அந்த மாநில மார்க்சிஸ்ட், இந்திய கம்யூனிஸ்ட் கட்சிகளும் போட்டி போட்டுக் கொண்டு ஊதிப் பெரிதாக்குவதற்குக் காரணமே, எர்ணாகுளம் மாவட்டம் பிரவம் சட்டமன்றத் தொகுதிக்கு நடக்கவுள்ள இடைத் தேர்தல் தான் என்று தெரிகிறது. இந்தத் தொகுதி முல்லைப் பெரியாறு அணைக்கு அருகாமையில் உள்ளது குறிப்பிடத்தக்கது.

முல்லைப் பெரியாறு அணையிலிருந்து திறந்து விடப்படும் நீர் பிரவம் தொகுதி வழியே ஓடும் மூவாற்றுப் புழை ஆற்றின் வழியாகத் தான் செல்கிறது. இதனால் முல்லைப் பெரியாறு அணை உடைந்தால் பிரவம் தொகுதி உள்பட எர்ணாகுளம் மாவட்டமே மூழ்கிவிடும் என்ற டுபாக்கூர் பிரச்சாரத்தை அந்த மாநில கட்சிகள் கிளப்பி விட்டுள்ளன.

மேலும் நடக்கப் போவது வெறும் இடைத் தேர்தல் மட்டுமல்ல. இந்தத் தொகுதியில் வெல்லப் போவது யார் என்பதை வைத்து தான், கேரளத்தில் காங்கிரஸ் அரசு நீடிக்குமா அல்லது கவிழுமா என்பதே உறுதியாகப் போகிறது.

பலவீனமாக உள்ள முல்லைப் பெரியாறு அணை உடைந்து இடுக்கி, ஆலப்புழா, எர்ணாகுளம் மாவட்டங்களே நீரில் மூழ்கிவிடும் என்று கேரளா அரசு கூறுகிறது. ஆனால், இந்த இடைத் தேர்தலில் காங்கிரஸ் தோற்றால் முதல்வர் உம்மன் சாண்டி தலைமையிலான அரசு மூழ்கிவிடும் என்பது மட்டும் தான் உண்மை.

Cont....

--------

English summary
The congress and left parties of Kerala, in the campaign to reclaim the Piravom by-poll has stirred up local sentiments against Tamil Nadu and created fear among the lakhs of people living in three districts by stating that the Mullai periyar dam is on the verge of being broken.

http://tamil.oneindia.in/news/2011/12/02/india-kerala-political-parties-using-mullaperiyar-dam-aid0090.html

TN Planning Commission invites e-suggestions

Though not on Facebook and Twitter as yet, but through the Web site, www.tn.gov.in/spc, the State Planning Commission is inviting suggestions from stakeholders and people across the globe for consideration as inputs in the planning process.

Besides inviting e-suggestions, the members of the State Planning Commission are also doing the rounds by meeting people from various walks of life, including farmers, tribals, NGOs, industrialists and disabled youth to collate their views.

The first of such regional consultation (for the XII Five Year Plan) meeting was held at the Tamil Nadu Agricultural University — the partner institution — early this week.

BREEDING POLICY FOR CATTLE

The emphasis was towards a breeding policy for cattle, said the Vice-Chairperson of SPC, Ms Santha Sheela Nair.

Sharing details of the discussion Ms Nair said, “There was a lot of emphasis for retaining the genetic material of the Kangeyam cattle breed and the flora and fauna of this region. Villagers pointed out that as a result of cross-breeds, the genetic material of the Kangeyam cattle was being lost.

Besides preserving the genetic material of the cattle, there is also a need to preserve the environment in which these cattle are reared/ grown.”

“We have to make provision for preserving and conserving the genetic material — both in plants and animal life,” she added.

She conceded that transfer of technology from the lab to land was still a challenge and stressed the need to look at agriculture, not just from the point of view of crop production, but in its entirety.

“Agriculture and animal husbandry are important to enhance farm income. The new element in the suggestion that we want to make is farm-based plan by going to the micro level of the individual farm and seeing how every farm could be made a self sustaining proposition. The challenge would be in maximising the output from every unit of land.”

Suggestions regarding land use policy, dryland farming, precision farming, post harvest technologies, marketing nuances of agricultural produce, micro irrigation, energy conservation etc kept pouring, she said.

Reiterating the Chief Minister Dr J. Jayalaithaa's vision of making Tamil Nadu the top State in the country in growth, Ms Nair said top priority would be given to agriculture with a growth target of 4 per cent for doubling food production and enhancing farmers income two-three times. Special focus would also be on industry including small, micro, medium and the infrastructure sector, education and health.

STEERING COMMITTEES

SPC has constituted 15 steering committees and 47 working groups comprising stakeholders, domain experts, community-based organisations and policy planners for formulating the plan document.

The next meeting is scheduled at Madurai on December 5, followed by a meeting at Tirunelveli on Dec 7; at Cuddalore on Dec 13 and Trichy on Dec 15. The plan document is expected to be finalised by end January 2012.

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/industry-and-economy/government-and-policy/article2681604.ece

conspiracy theory doing rounds is singham may of getting back for kk agitations in mp dam. and that the man assisting him in this is the chetti man from our land. chetti man needs to be in good books of singham as well as seek revenge at lady.

but potential now to get out of their hands.

this is the theory doing rounds in desiya thalainagaram and nambha thalainagaram.

FIR against Stalin in land grab case, will he be arrested?

http://www.ndtv.com/article/tamil-nadu/after-fir-karunanidhi-s-son-stalin-may-face-arrest-154542

DMK leader M.K. Stalin, against whom a case of criminal intimidation was registered by police, today said the action by the Jayalalithaa government was only to “settle political scores.”

Dismissing the complaint as “baseless”, Mr. Stalin, son of DMK chief M Karunanidhi, petitioned the Director General of Police, saying he has “absolutely no connection with the case in whatsoever manner.”

The Central Crime Branch of Chennai Police on Thursday registered an FIR against Stalin, his son Udhayanidhi and four others for allegedly threatening a person to sell his property in a prime locality at a lesser price.

The case was registered following a complaint by one N S Kumar on November 29, alleging that one of Stalin’s aides had forced him to sell his property at Chittaranjan Das Road at Teynampet area after getting the tenants to vacate it under threat.

Mr. Stalin said his son had entered into a rental agreement with the present owner of the property through his company.

“There is no nexus with the complainant, the complaint is only to tarnish my image and reputation in the eyes of the general public,” Mr. Stalin, a former Deputy Chief Minister, said.

Alleging that police machinery was being “misused and abused” by persons in power in order to settle political scores, he said, “The present case is registered in such a manner with mala fide intention.”

Mr. Stalin also charged the police department with acting as a “tool of the ruling AIADMK dispensation.”

He also alleged that Chief Minister Jayalalithaa owned two “unlawfully occupied properties” in Kodanaadu and Siruthavur, but till date, no case of landgrabbing has been registered in these cases.

Sankaran kovil bye election status

Dinamalar (http://www.dinamalar.com/News_detail.asp?Id=356657)

Parithi ilamvazhuthi, Velmurugan to Join MDMK?

Dinamalar (http://www.dinamalar.com/News_Detail.asp?Id=359794)

http://www.whispersintamilnadu.com/2011/11/dmk-leaders-to-switch-sides.html

Parithi ilamvazhuthi, Velmurugan to Join MDMK?

Dinamalar (http://www.dinamalar.com/News_Detail.asp?Id=359794)

http://www.whispersintamilnadu.com/2011/11/dmk-leaders-to-switch-sides.html

Tamizhnaatula senja politics bore adichi, eezham politics-la join pannitangala :lol:

TASMAC Elite bar opening in 3rd week of Dec.

http://www.dailythanthi.com/thanthiepaper/3122011/slm0312fe12pgadvt01.jpg

8 shops coming up at Chennai and 3 each at Velacherry, Kodambakkam and Padi will be opened soon.

http://www.dailythanthi.com/thanthiepaper/showxml.aspx?id=15210207&code=3096

Vadivelu may join ADMK

http://tamil.oneindia.in/news/2011/12/02/tamilnadu-vadivelu-may-quit-dmk-join-admk-with-ibrahim-rowthar-aid0091.html

idhu ulaga maga kusumbu :)

http://www.vikatan.com/article.php?mid=2&sid=365&aid=13476

கனிமொழி விடுதலை ஆனதும், திகார் ஜெயில் நிர்வாகம் கொடுத்த ஒரு விளம்பரச் செய்தி கடந்த 30-ம் தேதி வெளியானது.

'படியுங்கள்... படிக்கவும் வையுங்கள்’ என்கிற தலைப்பில் இந்த விளம்பரத்தை வெளியிட்டது ஜெயில் நிர்வாகம்.

'சிறை என்றால் நமக்கு நினைவுக்கு வருவது கிரிமினல்கள், திருடர்கள், மோசடிப்பேர்வழிகள். இவர்கள் ஒரு முறை வெளியே வந்துவிட்டால் மீண்டும் சிறைக்குத் திரும்ப விரும்புவது இல்லை. ஆனால் இவர்கள் வெளியே வருவதை வெளியே இருக்கும் சிலர் விரும்புவது இல்லை. அது தவறு. அவர்கள் வரமுடியாததற்குக் காரணம் கல்வி அறிவைப் பெறவில்லை, படிப்பறிவும் அவர்களுக்கு இல்லை. அவர்களுக்கு உதவுங்கள். இதற்கான திட்டம் எங்களிடம் உள்ளது. படியுங் கள்... படிக்கவும் வையுங்கள்’ என்று விளம்பரம் கொடுத்தது. கனிமொழி விடுதலையான போது இந்த விளம் பரத்தைக் கொடுத்தது ஏன் என்பது புரியாத புதிர்தான்.

Tamizhnaatula senja politics bore adichi, eezham politics-la join pannitangala :lol:


Yo Boyz we are going to start a new party.... soup party .... flop party...... :lol:

Chennai Engineers association challenges KL regarding the safety issues raised by Kerala - they are ready to prove that mullai periyar dam is safe

Source - Dinamani ( New Indian Express group)

For the friends who don't know tamil , here is the translation of the news article

If water is increased to 142 feet, the tourist resorts bulit by kerala politicians near the catchment areas will be affected.

Altitude of mullai periyar dam 2889 ft, areas that KL claims to submerge is at an altitude higher than Mullai periyar : Vandi periyar -3350 ft, Pambanar -3750, Elaparai -4850 ft.

KL indulges in a false propoganda that the dam is going to break.

Chenneai engineers association i ready to technically prove that the dam is strong.



http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/6283/22240562.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/705/22240562.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Contending that Kerala Chief Minister Oommen Chandy, his Ministers and officials are creating a fear psychosis among the people by issuing statements on the Mullaperiyar dam's safety, Tamil Nadu on Thursday moved the Supreme Court to restrain them from making any remark on de-commissioning of the dam or construction of a new one.

An application filed by Tamil Nadu brought on record various statements issued or made by the Chief Minister and Ministers and officials in the past few days to drive home its point that the apprehensions about the dam's safety had no basis, as it was structurally safe and strong.

The application said that recently the officials and a Minister said that 22 mild tremors had occurred in parts of Idukki and adjacent Kottayam districts and two minor cracks were believed to have been caused to the dam by the latest tremor, and “Kerala wants to decommission the old dam and build a new dam.” Tamil Nadu maintained that the reported tremors “are negligible and, in any event, were below 3.5 on the Richter scale. There are no cracks in the dam as alleged, and the fear psychosis created is absolutely baseless. The false propaganda of 22 tremors in the past four months resulting in the dam becoming unsafe is being made without any basis as there were only four tremors in the recent past.”

It said: “It is most inappropriate for the State of Kerala, through its Chief Minister and others, to make strongly worded statements to the effect that a new dam is the only solution. When the matter is sub judice, such statements ought not to be made. If this court finds the existing dam to be safe, there would be no need for a new dam.”

“Tremors had no effect”

Tamil Nadu said the dam was designed to withstand earthquakes as per the Indian Standard (IS) Code, and between 1819 and 2005, there had been instances of 76 earthquakes. The recent tremors did not have any impact on the dam as the tremors were not even felt in the vicinity of the dam. “The dam is fully strengthened and safe and has developed no cracks as claimed by the State of Kerala.”

It said the statements were false propaganda in support of decommissioning the dam and constructing a new one. It argued that these amounted to interference with the due course of law and/or obstructing the administration of justice as the issue of the dam's safety and building a new dam were pending before the Supreme Court.

Tamil Nadu was compelled to file the present application in view of the developments that had occurred during the past 15 days, when the Empowered Committee was examining the issue and was yet to submit its report to the Supreme Court

thehindu

The statement of former Chairman of the Central Water Commission, Dr KC Thomas, asserting that there need not be any apprehension about the safety of the Mullaiperiyar dam has come as a shot in arm for the Tamil Nadu government as well as its people at a time when the Kerala government is vehemently demanding the decommissioning of the dam.
When Kerala raised the safety issue way back in 1979, Thomas inspected the dam and concluded that there was no danger to the dam and suggested some strengthening measures which were carried out by Tamil Nadu in concurrence with Kerala government.
Thomas, in his statement on November 27, has categorically stated that if the storage height is increased to 152 ft, the 13 spillways would be capable of handling maximum floods and the possibility of the dam breaching and toppling Idukki dam was not logical since all possible eventualities were factored in while strengthening the dam in 1981.
Thomas also pointed out that the Jaisamand dam constructed in Rajasthan in 1730 is structurally stable even now and there should be no apprehension about the Mullaiperiyar dam. The memorandum submitted by the delegation of AIADMK MPs to the Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in New Delhi on Friday gave details about the statements made by Thomas on various occasions.

Mullaperiyar safe: Kerala AG ..

Kerala’s fears that the 116-year-old Mullaperiyar Dam would burst and devastate four districts of the state were nailed by its own advocate general who has submitted in the high court that the dam is safe.

“Even if the Mullaperiyar Dam bursts, the entire water gushing out of the dam could be stored in the dams at Idukki, Cheruthoni and Kulamavu downstream,” KP Dandapani, the state’s advocate general, told a division bench of the Kerala high court on Friday. This is in total contrast to the three-decade old stance of the Kerala government.

The submission was in response to the court’s directive to inform it about the safety measures adopted by the Kerala government in the eventuality of any disaster in the Mullaperiyar Dam.

The advocate general later clarified that what he meant was that the Idukki dam has the capability to store the entire water from the Mullaperiyar Dam.

The advocate general’s comments has infuriated both the ruling and opposition fronts in the state as they came out against him and immediately demanded his ouster.

What he told the high court was based on a Supreme Court judgment in 2006 which allowed the Tamil Nadu government to increase the water level to 142 ft from the present 136 ft. The reduction of water level in the Mullaperiyar Dam from 152 ft to 136 ft in 1978 following the Kerala government’s fears of the safety of the dam had brought down its storage capacity from 15 TMC ft to 10 TMC ft.

The Idukki dam, 30 km downstream, has a storage capacity of 71 TMC ft and the reservoir remained only half filled ever since it was commissioned in 1976. The Kerala government’s claim was that if the Mullaperiyar Dam bursts, the resultant flood would devastate the four districts of Idukki, Ernakulam, Kottayam and Alappuzha and 35 million people.

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_mullaperiyar-safe-kerala-ag_1620590

CNN-IBN:

While making statements on the safety measures being taken by the government required in the event of the dam's collapse, KP Dandpani purportedly said three downstream dams of Idukki, Kulavamuvu and Cheruthoni could contain the waters
of Mullaperiyar.

The LDF also took strong objection to the statement of Revenue Minister Thiruvanchur Radhakrishnan that in the present situation, the Idukki dam could contain the overflow from Mullaperiyar in an eventuality.

Refuting reports that he had made statements in the court contrary to the state's position, Dandapani said all statements made by him were based on the submissions received from the government.

Asserting that he had done his duty with "honesty and integrity", he said it was unfortunate that a section of media 'misquoted' him

Senior PWD engineers plan to submit their technical data proving the dam’s strength to the empowered committee.

Accusing Kerala of “manufacturing” tremors at its sweet will, several engineering and water management experts of Tamil Nadu on Friday said the mild tremors in the Mullaiperiyar dam area are nothing more than vibrations caused by a passing truck.

Describing the entire Mullaiperiyar issue as “purely engineering and technical, but not political”, Mr Veerappan, retired chief engineer of Tamil Nadu PWD, told Deccan Chronicle that the Mullaiperiyar dam site and Chennai are in the same seismic zone (III) and the areas only witness mild tremors ranging between 3.5 and 4.2 on the Richter scale.

“The tremors at Mullaiperiyar dam site are nothing more than the vibrations caused by the movement of an ordinary lorry,” Mr Veerappan opined, hitting out at the Dr Manmohan Singh-led UPA regime and some Left parties here for pushing the idea of holding fresh negotiations when the matter is sub judice.

He appreciated chief minister J. Jayalalithaa for urging her Kerala counterpart to implement the SC verdict of 2006 to increase the water level, which was received with thunderous applause by a jam-packed hall of enthusiastic public who attended the ‘truth and lies about Dam999’ organised by the institute of engineers.

Asserting that the dam was strong, Mr Veerappan said even if it fails at full reservoir level of 152 ft, there would be “no causality” since the human settlements like Vandiperiyar, Kumili and Pullumedu are way above the reach of floodwaters.

“The settlements are 2,743 ft above sea level while the flood flow will be at 2,450 ft above sea level,” he said, adding the flood would not reach human habitations.

The water, when it reaches Idukki dam, which is around 50 km away, would have only a pressure or force of 3 feet per second, he pointed out.

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/channels/cities/chennai/mullaperiyar-issue-kerala-makes-quakes-accuse-tamil-nadu-experts-990
.......................................

It is the case of State of Kerala that despite the 'copious rain', the Idukki reservoir is not filled to its capacity, while the capacity of reservoir is 70.500 TMC, it was filled only to the extent of 57.365 TMC. This also shows that assuming the worst happens, more than 11 TMC water would be taken by Idukki dam


from sc judgement

youth congress of amul baby lead by local leader Kuriakose behave like rowdies at kumily and attack the intake shutter after taking on police.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=86274673&postcount=1

பகுத்தறிவுப் பகலவன் வீட்டில் உடைக்கப் பட்ட திருஷ்டி பூசணிக்காய் :lol:

http://www.savukku.net/home1/1396-----2.html


http://www.savukku.net/images/stories/3_December_2011/IMG_5230.jpg

http://www.savukku.net/images/stories/3_December_2011/IMG_5231.jpg


http://www.savukku.net/images/stories/3_December_2011/IMG_5233.jpg


http://www.savukku.net/images/stories/3_December_2011/IMG_5248.jpg

kushbuvukku kovil kattina kootamada nam koottam,
kanimolikku kovil enna kopurame kattavom.
thooo....
:bash:

^^ Boss yarkitayum ida solidathenga, nejamale banner la inda vasagam vandrum pola...

hNq4Gkb18Zg

neyyar 2010

Have been a little busy and couldn't follow discussions for the last few days like I used to. Had an opportunity to watch several shows / articles and debates from dinathanthi to bloomberg, from local commie union leader to Arun Shorie today. Basically all opposition to FDI in retail stems out of one word poor.

I have been repeatedly talking about one of my favourite book of Dr.C.K.Prahalad - "The fortunes at the bottom of the pyramid". More often than not policy makers see poor / rural as someone who has to be protected through subsidies. We stereotyped the assumptions that guided our public and private policies for over 64 years. End of 6 decades poverty still stands!!

So what went wrong? What has to change? Prahalad advocates basic mindset change. He wants our law makers to see poor as an opportunity and not a problem. Here after my arguments in this forum on economy or FDI will be based on the CKP's fundemendals. All coimbatoreans think alike :) seri seri adangunu sollureenga kekudhu. Just thought that I'll introduce our forumers to few of his concepts and scanned couple of pages of the book. Here u go..

http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/3217/screenshot20111203at610.png



http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/3217/screenshot20111203at610.png

Only one reply KT,

reforms have to be bottom up and not top down. top down is disaster waiting to happen esp in country like india, where laws are for name sake, money power buys you anything.

there in lies the problem with fdi in retail. u cant sleep for 7 yrs without doing anything and overnight try top down,

reforms have to be bottom up and not top down. top down is disaster waiting to happen esp in country like india, where laws are for name sake, money power buys you anything.

there in lies the problem with fdi in retail. u cant sleep for 7 yrs without doing anything and overnight try top down,

Neither!! It has to be participative.

Bottom-up will work only if there is a genuine vision, enforcement and execution at all-levels. That ain't happening without a system. Without a system, for a country of size of India it is a case of too many cooks in the kitchen.

Top-down might work on small-scale. It will never work on large scale on a democracy (In dictatorship it might). That's where the concept of small and quick wins comes into picture. Do a top-down approach and execute them on silos. Make sure that they are aligned with larger goal and select correct leaders for the silos. That is the best bet

http://blogs.hbr.org/hbsfaculty/2011/08/the-power-of-small-wins-in-tim.html

The above article is for organizations. But concepts are applicable for countries too. I am convinced and have a strong feeling that FDI in retailing will work. They are starting with about 53 cities w/population over a million. Hope it works. If not we should make it work :)

Came across this board on Mount Road...

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7147/6453317575_d9f7381f1e_z.jpg

I have also heard Coffee shop written as "Kaapi Kottai Kulambiyagam"

A massive Punjabi wedding is going on in my vicinity right now (Delhi). Kolaveri Di is blaring at full volume :lol:

Came across this board on Mount Road...

I have also heard Coffee shop written as "Kaapi Kottai Kulambiyagam"

Subbu, is this shop by any chance opposite to Nandanam housing board and in between Tower building and Thanthai peiryar building (which houses ELCOT building and Poompuhar ship corpn).

A massive Punjabi wedding is going on in my vicinity right now (Delhi). Kolaveri Di is blaring at full volume :lol:

So it must be a "Kolaveri" function :)

Subbu, is this shop by any chance opposite to Nandanam housing board and in between Tower building and Thanthai peiryar building (which houses ELCOT building and Poompuhar ship corpn).

Yes, this shop was at Nandanam.

Only one reply KT,

reforms have to be bottom up and not top down. top down is disaster waiting to happen esp in country like india, where laws are for name sake, money power buys you anything.

there in lies the problem with fdi in retail. u cant sleep for 7 yrs without doing anything and overnight try top down,

What do you mean by reform must be "bottom up"?
The policy changes in economical/retail/airline deregulation/privatization has to be decided and implemented by the Govt. BJP has been in forefront of this and now that Congress is taking a lead in one sector and BJP has stared playing politics like it did for nuclear power.

http://expressbuzz.com/opinion/columnists/market-economy-or-market-society/340201.html

gurumurthy using very same words i used.


The ongoing debate on the FDI in retail is intolerably superficial at times. For a rational debate, the fundamentals of conflicting alternatives must be understood. Here are some basic truths about conventional Indian retail. For thousands of years, retailing in India has been local community business - selling retailers and buying households being familiar with each other. Even now Indian retailing is mostly neighbourhood, relation-based business.
There are 15 million retailers in India, including hawkers and pavement vendors. This translates to the greatest retailer density anywhere in the world - more than one retailer for 8 Indians! In contrast, China, more populous than India, has less than a twelfth of India’s retail density; just 1.3 million retailers - one for 100 Chinese.
In India, one retailer does not stock all needs of all customers. Several neighbourhood retailers - hawkers, roadside vendors, bunks and kirana shops - taken together stock and meet all their needs. The Indian retail business is estimated at $400 billion. Of which the share of corporate is now 5 percent; the rest 95 percent is handled by traditional retailers. The wholesale-retail trade in India has evolved as part of its social milieu over millennia, organised and linked by local relations. According to an FCCI study, food - read agriculture - accounts for 63 percent of retail trade. Here, some 74 million strong small farmer-wholesaler-small retailer combine - a social inheritance of generations - works, not hierarchically, but laterally through neighbourhood relations.
Some 58.8 million small-marginal farmers from 6.8 lakh villages sell their produce at 47,000 haats/shandies to some 15 million wholesalers-retailers. It is the largest decentralised business in the world. They all operate within a radius of 16 km of where they are. Yet, only 40 percent of the food produced is traded; the balance 60 percent is barter-shared by social relations within villages. This [60 percent] sharing and [40 percent] trading keeps rural India alive.
The Parliamentary Standing Committee Report on the FDI in retail [June 2009] says that traditional retail employs 40 million people; and finds the corporate retail claim to 20 lakh job “highly exaggerated”. The Committee is right. Walmart, with $422 billion global turnover, employs just 2.1 million people.
That is, with more than India’s retail business in its balance sheet, it provides less than 5 percent of India’s retail jobs! So the organised retail’s proven job potential is less than 1/20 of the performance of traditional retail. Where from did Anand Sharma get his maths that the FDI in retail would generate 10 million jobs then?
This stentorian noise for the FDI in retail makes four claims. One, the organised retail would avoid the huge - `50,000 crore - waste of farm products due to lack of efficient supply chain; two, with middlemen eliminated the farmers would get better prices; three, Walmarts and Tescos would procure farm products and export them like they do from China, which traditional retail cannot. Four, it will yield more employment.
The claim about employment is bogus. What Walmarts and Tescos could not do elsewhere, they would not do here. The next claim, namely, like in China, Walmarts and Tescos would ramp up India’s exports ignores the basics of Indian and Chinese economies. China’s domestic consumption is low, just 35 percent of its GDP; the balance 65 percent is its exportable surplus. It has built this huge surplus over decades. India with a high domestic consumption of 58 percent has no such exportable surplus. Actually, it is sensible for Walmart to bring in goods from China, made cheaper by cheap yuan, into India.
Already Chinese goods are outselling Indian goods in India. India’s annual trade deficit with China, now $20 billion, is estimated to reach $278.5 billion by 2014! Far from making India prosperous, Walmarts and Tescos may impoverish it.
The claim that the FDI in retail will eliminate middlemen and enrich farmers is not borne out by facts. See the record of Tesco, the largest retailer in the UK, in contrast. It “exploits small farmers in the UK and worldwide”; “hastens their replacement” with monoculture plantations; “poses serious risks for developing country farmers” who have traditionally supplied to local street markets.
Further, “rather than growing their produce and taking it straight to a market, they have to deal with a chain of middlemen, supermarket’s standards of uniformity in shape and size, risking rejection of lot of their produce”. Farmer-friendly FDI in retail is contradiction in terms.
The campaign that the FDI in retail would prevent waste by efficient supply chain management ignores two vital facts. One, the national highway forms only 2 percent of India’s road network, but handles 40 percent of the road traffic! The other roads can handle only trucks smaller than 20’; and link only local markets.
Walmarts and Tescos can’t build roads. The government has to. If it does, Walmart or Tesco are not needed. Two, on storage, a recent MIT paper says that as “demonstrated by the case study in rural India, the solution to food storage needs to be a bottom up approach. Communities need to be identified where the people have access to fresh food that is currently wasted and who are willing to put in the time to store it properly. Farm cooperatives are potential candidates.”
So, bottom up society, not topdown Walmarts or Tescos, is the answer.
Finally, the debate on the FDI in Indian retail misses out the most crucial point. Not only Indian retail, the whole of Indian economy functions more on relations, less on contracts. That is why 60 percent of the farm produce is socially shared. The trade in the rest are based on neighbourhood relations. When contracts replace human relations, it yields not “market economy” but “market society”, where even families function on contracts.
Margaret Thatcher once said: “There is no such thing as society. There are individuals and families. That is all.” But, the experience of the US/West has proved that traditional families cannot survive without functioning traditional society. As the US Bureau of Economic Research had foreseen in 1970s, now family functions have been effectively taken over by corporates and the State! Unbridled market first dismantles the relation-based society, then disturbs families, to yield a purely contract-based ‘market society’ finally.
The relation-less retail model of Walmarts and Tescos fits the contract-based US/West. But, of late, even in the West, debate on “market economy” vs “market society” has begun - “market society” being derided as Anglo-Saxon. QED: The real issue is not the FDI in retail, but what does the Indian Government, economists and elites want in India finally? A relation-friendly “market economy”? Or, a relation-less “market society”?

vs,

maran brough in 100% fdi. bjp cabinet rejected saying time not right.

They knew they will do the bottoms up reforms and hence in manifesto mentioned 26%

with that u dont have operational control and many wont go that agressive and will be waiting for 51% and above clearnce to do that.

This would have brough some capital and at same time india culd have proceeded with its bottom up reforsm. manufacturing, making easy credit available, less harassment for retailers, making opening a retail shop easy for all without need for help from a community and so on.

Then they would have opened it beyond 26%.

But when they saw cong did nothing they opposed it. even now they are saying timing not right, first reforms needed elsewhere before we step into this.
.....................................

Rising emotions, falling objectivity, the truth behind Mullaiperiyar coverage in Chennai newsrooms

By Radhika Giri
05 Dec 2011
Radhika GiriPosted 05-Dec-2011
Vol 2 Issue 48

Closely following the reportage in the various English newspapers on the latest eruption of the Mullaiperiyar dam issue, I have some serious doubts over the professional integrity of journalists from Kerala.

If journalists writing for Malayalam newspapers seek to reflect the state government’s views and the local people’s sentiments without bothering about the truth, it is one thing. But when Malayalee journalists working for the English media, that too in Tamil Nadu, do that, it is a matter of concern.
Is it Mullaiperiyar or Mullaperiyar? The answer will tell which side you support

The latest slip up on journalistic ethics is on covering the deposition of the Kerala Advocate General, K P Dhandapani, in court that even in the event of the Mullaiperiyar dam breaking, the water will collect at the Idukki and other dams downstream.

The day after the deposition, no English paper in Chennai carried the news. Only after Malayalees were up in arms against the Advocate General for making what they would consider as a preposterous statement, the news came out, that too in the context of the controversy that the statement had triggered.

The point that I am making is that no reporter in Kerala found the Advocate General’s view worthy of reporting – whether they would like to agree with it or treat it as a faux pas is a different matter.

To put it otherwise, I find Malayalee journalists conducting themselves as Malayalees first and journalists next even in the line of duty.

What prompted me to make a close study of the developments in the past two weeks is the "Times View" published on 24 November in the Times of India Chennai edition.

The opinion piece below the story “TN theatres bow to protests, pull the plug on Dam999,” started quite innocuously, defending freedom of expression. But the bomb was in the third sentence, which read: “Admittedly, the Mullaperiyar dam is an emotive issue and often exploited by political parties to generate sympathy among people in the southern districts.”

It is common knowledge that Mullaiperiyar (‘Mullaperiyar’ without the ‘I’ is typical Malayalee spelling and pronunciation, which Times of India prefers to follow) is an emotive issue in Kerala and not Tamil Nadu, though there is now a fear that the Kerala government, journalists and people together may make the issue emotive here also through the falsehoods they are systematically spreading.

So, without any doubt, one can say that the ‘Times View’ was a Malayalee’s view even if he or she was living in Chennai and working as a journalist.

Those with some insight into the media industry know the composition of the Times of India’s newsroom in Chennai. Every key post in the paper is held by a Malayalee – a Nair or Menon and so on. The Resident Editor, Political Editor and Metro Editor are all Malayalees.

As a journalist, who earlier worked for Times of India, said: ‘The news room is filled with Malayalees, who speak to each other always in Malayalam. The overpowering presence of Malayalee ethos is always perceptible in the Chennai office.”

Another former employee of Times of India said: “The present situation in Times of India is that Tamils are in a fractional minority. When I was there, I and a colleague used to argue over various issues when we felt that the causes of Tamil Nadu were neglected or sidelined.

“Apart from that an instance that largely irritated the Tamils there was when the TOI management allowed the Chennai office to be decorated for Onam but refused to do it for Tamil New Year. Some of us raised an issue but nothing happened.”

Another senior journalist, who has nothing to do with Times of India other than being a reader, analyses the English media situation in Chennai thus: “Tamil people and their subaltern culture have always been ignored by the English media mainly because it was dominated by the elite classes. So that has led to a certain kind of dichotomy in media reportage between the English and the Tamil newspapers.

“Even as people from ordinary backgrounds managed to find the way into newsrooms of English newspapers, the voice of the subaltern classes remains subdued. The “Tamil viewpoint” still remains that of the elite, which in fact has caused several misconceptions about the state itself.

“One example is that people in places like Delhi, Mumbai and Kolkatta link ‘Idli, Dosa and Sambar’ to Tamil culinary tradition and believe that the predominant population of Tamil Nadu is vegetarian in food habit. Whereas the truth is that an overwhelming majority of Tamil people are meat eaters by tradition.

“Another cultural association of Tamil Nadu is Carnatic music and Bharatanatyam. The truth is that classical forms of music can be understood and appreciated by hardly about ten percent of the population. So what is the musical and art tradition of the 90 percent of the population?

“Such art forms never get their due recognition and the English media never bothered to acknowledge that because the journalists from other states, particularly those holding high editorial positions, relate themselves only to the dominant elite classes.’

“As far as the Mullaiperiyar issue is concerned, it was the Kerala government that started a campaign against the Mullaipeiryar dam’s safety with the help of the Malayalam newspapers. The primary intention of the Kerala government was to get water for the Idukki dam which can be achieved only if the Mullaipeiryar dam is knocked down.

“In due course as the Malayalam newspapers vied with one another in espousing the ‘cause’ of the state government, it turned into an emotive issue. So in Kerala every Malayalee has been made to believe that the Mullaiperiyar dam is a water bomb. Though there has been no scientific basis to that, people today believe that the dam will give way anytime and have been saying that for a few decades.”

Keeping in line with the sentiments, the Malayalee journalist also takes the same view point. Now that the English media in Tamil Nadu is fully under the stronghold of Malayalee journalists all newspapers reflect the Kerala views.

The lowering of the water in the dam from152 ft to 136 ft happened during the tenure of M G Ramachandran, a Malayalee by birth, who was then Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu. The Chief Secretary at that time was also a Malayalee.

Apart from the Times of India, which consistently spells the name of the dam erroneously as ‘Mullaperiyar’, reflecting the Malayalee sentiment, even The Hindu, the newspaper of Chennai, spells it that way.

When Malayalee journalists try to echo the view of the Kerala government, whose sole aim now is to whip up public frenzy and have the Mullaiperiyar dam pulled down, then journalism suffers and objectivity in reportage takes a beating.

But then the genesis of the big lie that the Mullaiperiyar is weak and would collapse, goes a long way back.

As a senior journalist in Chennai, who is privy to the happenings way back in 1978, said: ‘It started in Kerala with the Trivandrum based then Bureau Chief of Malayalam Manorama, Mr Patros Chummar, a towering figure among journalists in Malayalam journals who also enjoyed a back slapping rapport with the politicians of those days and who was even given to advising them.

In 1978 the Manorama newspaper, then the largest circulated daily in Kerala, carried the banner headline for the first time “Mullaiperiyar Pottan Porunnu” (Mullaiperiyar going to burst) after the then Congress leader of Kerala K Karunanakaran had a chat with M K Parameswaran Nair, chief engineer of the Kerala State Electricity Board and now an advisor to the Kerala government, who was disappointed with four monsoons not yielding the necessary waters in the Idukki dam since its commissioning in 1976.

The Mullaiperiyar is upstream to it and lies in Kerala territory with the legal control under an agreement with Tamil Nadu.

Parameswaran Nair is said to have jokingly told the Congress leader “Nammudae Chettandidathu paranju avide storage koraikka paraiyanullae!” (We will tell our brother - M G Ramachandran, the then Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu - there to decrease the storage level.)

What started as a thigh slapping joke ended with Nair telling the congress leader seriously: “Pedi create seinjittu chettanidathu poyaala.” (First fear should be created and then we should take the matter with our brother.)

The "fear" first created by Malayala Manorama, was picked up by the rest of the Malayalam journals. To cut a long story short, the Supreme Court passed a landmark order in February 2006 stating the dam was not weak and allowed the Tamil Nadu government to raise the water level.

Today I find every Malayalee journalist doing a Patros Chummar, which is a tragedy - not just for journalism but for truth. But what those journalists do not understand is that their chauvinism could well tear the pluralistic fabric of India apart.

For some water and just to retrieve a piece of land that a British India government obtained from the Travancore Maharaja legally, should the journalists from Kerala give up their professional integrity?

Radhika Giri is a Special Correspondent with The Statesman

http://www.theweekendleader.com/Causes/853/The-M-factor.html

maths!:lol:

http://i44.tinypic.com/10yzzpj.jpg

This would have brough some capital and at same time india culd have proceeded with its bottom up reforsm. manufacturing, making easy credit available, less harassment for retailers, making opening a retail shop easy for all without need for help from a community and so on.

Then they would have opened it beyond 26%.

But when they saw cong did nothing they opposed it. even now they are saying timing not right, first reforms needed elsewhere before we step into this.
.....................................
By bottoms up, I guess you mean slowly open the gates?

But first, let me ask you this, why should Indians take care of local banias? They no saints and these businessmen have made millions fleecing people by selling counterfeit and spurious goods. Why should we owe them if MNCs give the same provisions,goods at a cheaper cost?

If the opposition wanted the sourcing from local manufacturer to be 50% or slowly open the gates of stake, then they could have discussed it rationally. Here its pure politics to stop the deal just like the nuclear deal. That hypocrisy was exposed by wikileaks.

maths!:lol:

http://i44.tinypic.com/10yzzpj.jpg

They need to learn Math also.:lol:

Seeking arrest of those instigating people over Mullaperiyar dam issue in Kerala and Tamil Nadu under National Security Act, Janata Party chief Subramanian Swamy on Monday asked Tamil Nadu Chief Minister Jayalalithaa to hold talks with the neighbour in the overall welfare of the two states.


Talking to mediapersons in Madurai , he alleged some political leaders in Kerala were for vying with each other in creating panic about the dam despite a central experts committee certifying that it was safe.


Those instigating violence against Tamils in Kerala and Malayalees in Tamil Nadu should be detained under the NSA.


He said even on the issue of Koodankulam Nuclear Power Project, it was anti-national forces which were spreading rumours about the plant's safety and demanded their arrest.


Suggesting that Jayalalithaa could take the initiative and write to her counterpart Ommen Chandy for talks to solve the vexed issue, he said Tamil Nadu could even agree for Kerala's demand for construction of a new dam with certain conditions.


"Tamil Nadu government could even agree for a new dam, provided it was undertaken by Central government, if the new dam's height was also 152 feet and Tamil Nadu got the same quantum of water(as at present)," he said.


He also opposed Foreign Direct Investment in retail trade saying it would affect millions of people in the country.


Taking objection to Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam chief M Karunanidhi's wife Dayalu Ammal taking part in the reception granted to Kanimozhi when she arrived in Chennai on December 3 after being released on bail in the 2G scam case, Swamy demanded that the CBI seek cancellation of the bail.


He said Dayalu Ammal, majority stake holder in Kalaignar TV which has been accused of routing illegal gratification in the 2G scam, was a prosecution witness while Kanimozhi an accused in the case.


Kanimozhi, arrested by CBI in May last, was granted bail by the Delhi high court last week following which she arrived in Tamil Nadu to a rousing reception by DMK party workers.

THIRUVANANTHAPURAM: In a sign of a way forward out of the impasse over the Mullaperiyar dam issue, Kerala and Tamil Nadu officials are to meet on Dec 15 or 16 to discuss the 116-year-old dam in Kerala, which the ruling Congress described as a 'Damocles sword' hanging over the state.
At its Monday meeting, the state executive of the Congress party concluded that the first step is to reduce the water level of the Mullaperiyar Dam from 136 feet to 120 feet and give the go-ahead for a new dam.
"The dam for many years is like a Damocles sword hanging over Kerala and with a series of tremors taking place in and around the dam site, people in Idukki and the four neighbouring districts are living in perennial fear. The only solution to this is a new dam," state Congress president Ramesh Chennithala told reporters here.
As the press conference was progressing, news came that Tamil Nadu is ready for bilateral talks "on the 15th or 16th of this month".
"This is a very positive sign and it has raised our hopes of a settlement on the issue. We wish for an out of court settlement and are confident that the centre will make the necessary move for this," said Chennithala.

What happened to MP dam issue thread?

^^ Removed due to racist remarks from both sides!

தஞ்சையில் பிச்சைக்காரரிடம் ரூ. 6.26 லட்சம் ரொக்கம்!

First Published : 05 Dec 2011 12:11:00 PM IST

தஞ்சாவூர், டிச. 4: தஞ்சாவூரிலுள்ள தர்கா வாசலில் பிச்சை எடுத்தவரிடம் ரூ. 6.26 லட்சம் ரொக்கம் இருந்தது. இது, அவரது வங்கிக் கணக்கில் இருந்து எடுக்கப்பட்டது என்பதை உரிய ஆவணங்களுடன் சரிபார்த்த போலீஸார், அந்தப் பணத்தை ஞாயிற்றுக்கிழமை அவரிடமே ஒப்படைத்தனர்.
தஞ்சாவூர் காந்தி சாலை இர்வின் பாலம் அருகேயுள்ள தர்காவில் வெள்ளிக்கிழமை மதியம் தொழுகையில் இஸ்லாமியர்கள் பலர் கலந்து கொண்டனர். தஞ்சாவூர் கீழவாசல் பகுதியைச் சேர்ந்த மன்சூர் என்பவரது செல்போன் தொழுகையின் போது காணாமல் போனது. அவரது அருகே பிச்சைக்காரர் ஒருவர் தொழுகையில் ஈடுபட்டிருந்தார். எனவே, அங்கிருந்தவர்கள் அவரிடம் கேட்டனர். அவர் வைத்திருந்த பொருள்களையும் பரிசோதித்தனர். அப்போது, அவரிடம் ரூ. 6.26 லட்சம் ரொக்கம் இருந்தது தெரிய வந்தது. உடனே அங்கிருந்தவர்கள் அவரை தஞ்சாவூர் மேற்கு காவல் நிலையத்தில் ஒப்படைத்தனர். விசாரணையில், அவர் மன்னார்குடி வட்டாட்சியர் அலுவலகச் சாலை, 2-வது தெருவைச் சேர்ந்த அப்துல் சமது என்பது தெரியவந்தது.
இவரது மனைவி பக்ருநிஷா என்ற நூர்ஜகான். இவர்கள் இருவரும் சென்னை, ஏர்வாடி, திருச்சி உள்ளிட்ட பகுதிகளில் தர்கா வாசலில் அமர்ந்து பல ஆண்டுகளாகப் பிச்சை எடுத்தனராம். இதில் கிடைத்த பணத்தை சென்னை தாம்பரம் கிளை பாரத ஸ்டேட் வங்கியில் நிரந்த வைப்புத் தொகையாக வைத்திருந்தனர்.
இந்த நிலையில், தஞ்சாவூர் பகுதியில் மனை வாங்கி குடியிருக்க அப்துல் சமது விரும்பினாராம். அதற்காக, வங்கியில் வைத்திருந்த வைப்புத் தொகையை கடந்த 6 மாதங்களுக்கு முன்பு எடுத்தார். அந்தப் பணத்தை தனது கைப்பையில் வைத்துக்கொண்டு தொடர்ந்து பிச்சை எடுத்தாராம்.
தர்கா நிர்வாகிகள் முன்னிலையில், அவரது வங்கிக் கணக்குப் புத்தகத்தைச் சரிபார்த்த போலீஸார், பணம் அவருடையது என்பதை உறுதி செய்தனர். அதைத்தொடர்ந்து, போலீஸார் அந்தப் பணத்தை அவரிடமே திரும்ப ஒப்படைத்தனர்.

Crossposted from Suggestions / Complaints Thread - Posted by Ferrari Fan:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...postcount=2222

ferrari_fan
Forza!



Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Chennai + Hyderabad
Posts: 3,067
To Kannan/other mods:

It's getting really difficult to read posts in the Chennai forums with the sheer number of posts written in Tamil using English script.. It's very hard to decipher the words even for people who know Tamil - for others it's downright impossible..

I appreciate that many people like to post in Tamil and that you naturally therefore give leeway on this - and rightly so.

Do you think it would be possible to restrict Tamil comments to the Discussions thread and the TN Arattai Arangam threads alone, please?
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