removing seats isnt a rocket science.....why dont they understand that??? removing seat will increase the capacity of the local....only long route local should have seat....as they travel 2-3 hr...till khopoli/kasara

removing seats isnt a rocket science.....why dont they understand that??? removing seat will increase the capacity of the local....only long route local should have seat....as they travel 2-3 hr...till khopoli/kasara

dude you sit on those seats your ass will end up really numb.

better to have weary legs than numb ass. I can tell you that first hand.

dude you sit on those seats your ass will end up really numb

Why ?

dude you sit on those seats your ass will end up really numb.

better to have weary legs than numb ass. I can tell you that first hand.

wht u expect in locals...even metro has same seats...means no cushion.....:lol:

even u think a** get numb while seating...then u have option to stand......:)

wht u expect in locals...even metro has same seats...means no cushion.....:lol:

I always felt that metro's metal seats are more comfortable than cushioned seats of public buses, maybe because of the metal used or because of the design of the seats. I never felt numb even after sitting for more than an hour in metro but sometimes I have felt numbness while sitting on cushioned seats of DTC/bluelines.

I always felt that metro's metal seats are more comfortable than cushioned seats of public buses, maybe because of the metal used or because of the design of the seats. I never felt numb even after sitting for more than an hour in metro but sometimes I have felt numbness while sitting on cushioned seats of DTC/bluelines.

mostly because u dont get much vibrations in metro....as compare to buses/mumbai locals...

mostly because u dont get much vibrations in metro....as compare to buses/mumbai locals...

one more reason can be temperature. Because of a/c, metro's seats being metallic become cooler, while bus seats become hotter because of cushion.

^^ true...but u dont think that metro seats ...are more slippery than others...i felt that whenever i travel in DM...

^^ true...but u dont think that metro seats ...are more slippery than others...i felt that whenever i travel in DM...

Yes, they are quite smooth and slippery. Sometimes you feel that you have slowly slipped few inches ahead while sitting and then you have to push back your butt.

Yes, they are quite smooth and slippery. Sometimes you feel that you have slowly slipped few inches ahead while sitting and then you have to push back your butt.

heheh :lol:...

really then we want?? metro seats are slippery.....smooth....we complain.....mumbai local seats are makes our a** numb......same with DTC/buses,,,,,cushion seats etc....then what we want...????? :lol:

^^ That question has already been answered. We do not want seats ;), at least in suburban.

well see Delhi metro seats have like this bump in them which makes sitting easier.

Mumbai seats are flat like sitting on a wall. You sit on that for 30min and even if somebody puts a fire cracker in your ass you are not going to feel the pain.

They should really replace those slabs with bucket seats.

first thing ,,,,i will love if there are very few seats like delhi metro....n more space.....instead of flat seat....but in mumbai....people 4 people seat instead of three in single seat.....which will not possible with metro seats....they are like separate seat divided by thik line...which is really nice.....but mumbai people still use them as they used before(seating 4 instead of 3)....n finally..... will get more pain in ass than wht they are getting......:)

They should really replace those slabs with bucket seats.
^^^^^^^^ Or, they can remove the slabs and use them as benches on station platforms. hopefully they are weatherproof.

Yes. It is even more painful if more people sit on metro seats than its capacity. It has bumps and if you are sitting on the crest, then :ohno:. Though it is not usual in DM but sometimes people try to adjust 8 in a seat of 7. If somebody tries to adjust near my seat, I rather give up my seat instead of sitting on the crest. A safer option for suburban will be to have seats without these bumps but with smooth metal.

Apparantly the motormen had given a 30days notice before going on strike yesterday..What the fcuk was IR doing all these 30 days? I really cant belive that they have held the whole city to a ransom and the IR/GOVT has let this to happen :bash:

IR really SUCKS BIGTIME!!!!they have proved it again that it is being run with a bunch of WIMPS and MORONS, why dont they make the Mumbai suburban railways a different entity altogther so the the decision makers are not some dumb a$$ ch00tfcukers like the Laloos and Mamtas of India...bunch of a$$holes seriously. The railway minister is not even present in the Lok Sabha today..WTF. Mumbai certainly deserves better!!

^^ ya Mumbai Local should be different entity

Source (http://www.indianexpress.com/news/deal-inked-to-upgrade-mumbai-suburban-trains/616230/0)
A memorandum of understanding was signed for the second phase of Mumbai Urban Transport project between the Research, Design and Standards Organisation (RDSO), Indian Railways, with Mumbai Railway Vikas Corporation (MRVC).
Under the project, the MRVC is revamping the 85-year-old system of Mumbai suburban train network. The RDSO will provide technical expertise and frame specification for the procurement of an energy efficient propulsion system.
Under the project — funded by the World Bank — the Corporation has introduced new trains with upgraded coaches and a new technology which saves energy through a better brake system. Both were developed by the RDSO.
“The RDSO will be the technical partners in the project, for which MRVC will pay Rs 9 crore,” said KBL Mittal, Director General, RDSO.
In the first phase, the MRVC has introduced 1,000 new coaches in 84 new trains. Altogether, 250 trains are to be introduced by the end of second phase in 2015.
The Mumbai locals were running on the 1,500 volt direct current lines. The rest of the railways has a 25,000-volts alternative current line.
“With the new technology, each train will save at least 40 per cent of energy,” said PC Sehgal, Managing Director, MRVC. “If all 225 trains are replaced, at least Rs 114 crore per annum will be saved and it will earn carbon credits for railways in the long run.”
Explaining the technique of 3-phase energy efficient propulsion system, Executive Director, Power Supply and Electrical Multiple Units, AK Gupta said: “When brakes are applied, a lot of the energy produced due to friction is wasted. We place a motor near the wheels which converts the thermal energy into electrical energy when brakes are applied. The electricity is then transferred through the overhead equipment on the train to the main line that feeds electricity to the train.”
The new coaches designed by RDSO has an air ventilation system that keeps in check the carbon dioxide level inside coaches even in rush hours. Plus, there is a GPS-based passenger information system and improved lighting. The seating capacity of the coaches has also been increased by 33 per cent.

Are they talking about the siemens EMUs which they are going to introduce by 2015? Or these are compeletely new coaches?

I think this is a different coach design.the earlier coaches were designed by NID graduates .The newer ones by RDSO(???).Dont expect anything different .its gonna be the same outer body design but probably with one or two minor changes and probably better built and finished hopefully.

Dunno when this will set into motion though.....

Delink Suburban services from IR.

Source : Hindustantimes

Earlier this week, some 1,000 railway motormen held seven million suburban com- muters to ransom and got the city on its knees the strike was also likely a push for Railway Minister Mamata Banerjee's plans to administratively delink Mumbai's suburban railways from the Indian Railways, for better efficiency.
Officials said the separate agency as proposed by Banerjee could address the hurdles that have long plagued the city's saturated suburban railways network -- its key requirement being swift deci- sion making and implementa- tion on expansion projects -- currently, even minor decisions have to make the long, cir- cuitous journey all the way to New Delhi and back.

Banerjee's white paper has proposed a segregation of sub- urban railways, including those in Mumbai, Kolkata and Chennai, as separate adminis- trative units.

As part of the options dis- cussed to improve the efficien- cy of suburban railways, Banerjee has spoken of invest- ment by local municipalities and state governments.

A senior railway official said this will help Mumbai in sever- al ways.

The Mumbai Railway Vikas Corporation (MRVC), cur- rently a separate entity, is merely a coordinator for World Bank project funding, with no control over the running of trains.

“It [MRVC] couldn't get the city a common rake for both its railways, it hasn't been part of any of the important decision making because it doesn't have any powers. The new agency could either be a strengthened MRVC, or a Special Purpose Vehicle,“ he added.

The city's railway system is now in the middle of a mega upgrade, the first since Independence, funded by the World Bank but even the planned 174 new trains and additional rail corridors will only begin to address the current chaos.

Another official, again requesting anonymity, illus- trated the need for local auton- omy: “I know a particular sta- tion urgently needs a foot over- bridge, but to get it built, I'll have to make a plan, get it approved from local head- quarters, then send the pro- posal to the railway board in New Delhi, who will then sanc- tion it and allocate money in next year's budget. By then, that station will be in worse shape than it is now.“

Wonder how aerodynamic can a local train look???!!! Are they really targeting the Shinkansen or the Pudong Express look-n-feel along WR/CR/Harbour??? Moreover, if the metro lines, when completely built, are expected to take in a considerable amount of traffic load away from the locals, what is stopping them from having closed-door coaches??? Cost should not bother them, since we are already going to have such coaches on the metro lines.....:bash::ohno:

[Slightly off topic]Hope this will encourage the BEST to consider aesthetics and looks, and not just functionality, when upgrading its fleet!!!:banana::):cheers:

Cushioned seats and air cooling in local coaches, with World Bank funds (http://www.indianexpress.com/news/cushioned-seats-and-air-cooling-in-local-coaches-with-world-bank-funds/617509/0)

The next generation of local trains will come without the usual uncomfortable, cramped insides; their new, unique “aerodynamic” look will include air-cooling, cushioned seats in all compartments, and a new colour scheme.
The new rakes, to be bought with World Bank funding, will roll in by next year. The Bank has cleared Rs 1,900 crore under the second phase of the Mumbai Urban Transport Project (MUTP 2A). The state government and the Railways will each contribute Rs 750 crore towards the purchase of 78 new coaches for 12-coach trains.

“The state is keen in changing the look of local trains to go with that of modern transport means like the monorail and the Metro. Suburban trains look the same as when introduced by the British and it is about time we changed that,” said a bureaucrat.

The state will sign an MoU with the Integrated Rail Coach Factory in Chennai on May 15. Officials have already visited the factory and explained how they want trains to look. “The first train is expected to arrive in the city by 2011,” the official said.

Air cooling will see fresh air pumped in at controlled temperatures. “AC coaches are not possible; these will require closed, compact compartments where the crowd cannot be accommodated,” the official said.

To reduce the cost of providing this additional facility, coaches will work on a “regenerative braking” principle: the energy used while applying the brakes will be converted into electricity to run the train. Around 30 per cent energy can be saved that way.

Comfortable, cushioned seats, now only in first-class compartments where the fare is higher, will be in every coach. “We want a completely different look and plan to change even the exterior. All general compartments will have better seating, more lighting, more leg space, good floors and comfortable handles,” the official said.

The newest of the current coaches are purple-and-white, the future ones will have a new combination. “These will also have an aerodynamic look like Metro and the monorail coaches,” the official said.

==================================

Apparently, they are outsourcing the job of designing "better looking" coaches to RDSO, which had implemented safety projects for IR that had completed failed, leading to accidents.

WHERE DO THEY FIND THESE IDIOTS TO RUN IR AND MVRC?????:bash::bash::ohno::ohno:

Mumbai local trains to get cosier (http://www.hindustantimes.com/Mumbai-local-trains-to-get-cosier/Article1-540855.aspx)

The Mumbai rail journey has been synonymous with profusely sweating passengers struggling to find a footing, stepping on others’ feet, travelling on footboards, rooftops and connecting bumpers, besides latching on to the windows. This means great discomfort and huge risk.
Now, Lucknow’s Research Design and Standards Organisation (RDSO) — the sole R&D wing of the Indian Railways — is all set to help better the scene.
The Research Design and Standards Organisation on Thursday inked a multi-crore MoU with Mumbai Railway Vikas Corporation (MRVC) to considerably improve the quality of journey on board trains there.
This comes as a major boost to the Research Design and Standards Organisation itself especially with major research work being shifted to West Bengal and its relevance being questioned in the wake of failure of safety projects leading to back-to-back accidents.
“For the common passenger, we’re going to up the trains speed up to 110 kmph, increase the number of coaches per train from the existing 12 to 18 for load-shedding, introduce a better ventilation system and ensure a smooth ride by controlling jerks,” said AK Mathur, RDSO’s Executive Director (Admn & PR).
The project file
The Mumbai Urban Transport Project was formulated by the Mumbai Metropolitan Region Development Authority for improvement in traffic and transport situation in Mumbai metropolitan region.
Under this project, the Mumbai Rail Vikas Corporation (MRVC), a joint venture of Indian Railways and Maharashtra, was set up for implementation of railway projects in the Mumbai metropolitan region.
MoU signed
The MoU — meant for development and augmentation of sub-urban rail infrastructure in Mumbai’s metropolitan region — was signed RDSO DG KBL Mittal and MRVC MD PC Sehgal.
The RDSO will also help evolve a system for electrical sub-urban trains in Mumbai. This will mean saving of 35 per cent energy. The Mumbai local trains carry more than 6.1 million commuters on a daily basis. It has the highest passenger density of any urban railway system in the world. However, the passenger density is not synonymous with the infrastructure.
Stats
The Mumbai Urban Transport Project is to cost Rs 45.26 billion (approximately 1 billion US dollars). Most of the money is to be spent on railway projects.
This project is a sequel to the Bombay Urban Transport Project (BUTP) which was completed in the year 1984 at a cost of about Rs. 390 million
The World Bank has sanctioned a loan of Rs. 26020 millions ($ 542 million) i.e. 57% of the total cost.
Mumbai’s Suburban Rail System carries about 64 lakhs (6.4 million) passengers per day.
About 4,700 passengers travel in a 9-car rake during peak hours.

Wonder how aerodynamic can a local train look???!!!

knowing IR they will spare no effort to get the latest technology...from the 19th century

http://www.cracked.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/plane-train.jpg

knowing IR they will spare no effort to get the latest technology...from the 19th century

:lol::lol:Fucking Hilarious....yes, indeed may be we should go ahead with this design....the propellers in the front could be fixed, and help in "hanging" some extra passengers (who are anyways used to hanging on to the foot board)!!!! And this is way more "aerodynamic" than anything the Chinese, Germans, French or the Japanese have!!!

knowing IR they will spare no effort to get the latest technology...from the 19th century



Now this is aerodynamic.

F**king Hilarious:lol::lol:

outside antilla? i dont think a line has been approved for that area

Thats Mukesh's place. This is Anil :)

Thats Mukesh's place. This is Anil :)

Yes, that would be interesting....Anil building an u/g metro line right under Mukesh's house.....and then building a secret tunnel to spy on him!!!:banana::lol:

Wonder how aerodynamic can a local train look???!!! Are they really targeting the Shinkansen or the Pudong Express look-n-feel along WR/CR/Harbour??? Moreover, if the metro lines, when completely built, are expected to take in a considerable amount of traffic load away from the locals, what is stopping them from having closed-door coaches??? Cost should not bother them, since we are already going to have such coaches on the metro lines.....:bash::ohno:

[Slightly off topic]Hope this will encourage the BEST to consider aesthetics and looks, and not just functionality, when upgrading its fleet!!!:banana::):cheers:

Cushioned seats and air cooling in local coaches, with World Bank funds (http://www.indianexpress.com/news/cushioned-seats-and-air-cooling-in-local-coaches-with-world-bank-funds/617509/0)

The next generation of local trains will come without the usual uncomfortable, cramped insides; their new, unique “aerodynamic” look will include air-cooling, cushioned seats in all compartments, and a new colour scheme.
The new rakes, to be bought with World Bank funding, will roll in by next year. The Bank has cleared Rs 1,900 crore under the second phase of the Mumbai Urban Transport Project (MUTP 2A). The state government and the Railways will each contribute Rs 750 crore towards the purchase of 78 new coaches for 12-coach trains.

“The state is keen in changing the look of local trains to go with that of modern transport means like the monorail and the Metro. Suburban trains look the same as when introduced by the British and it is about time we changed that,” said a bureaucrat.

The state will sign an MoU with the Integrated Rail Coach Factory in Chennai on May 15. Officials have already visited the factory and explained how they want trains to look. “The first train is expected to arrive in the city by 2011,” the official said.

Air cooling will see fresh air pumped in at controlled temperatures. “AC coaches are not possible; these will require closed, compact compartments where the crowd cannot be accommodated,” the official said.

To reduce the cost of providing this additional facility, coaches will work on a “regenerative braking” principle: the energy used while applying the brakes will be converted into electricity to run the train. Around 30 per cent energy can be saved that way.

Comfortable, cushioned seats, now only in first-class compartments where the fare is higher, will be in every coach. “We want a completely different look and plan to change even the exterior. All general compartments will have better seating, more lighting, more leg space, good floors and comfortable handles,” the official said.

The newest of the current coaches are purple-and-white, the future ones will have a new combination. “These will also have an aerodynamic look like Metro and the monorail coaches,” the official said.

==================================

Apparently, they are outsourcing the job of designing "better looking" coaches to RDSO, which had implemented safety projects for IR that had completed failed, leading to accidents.

WHERE DO THEY FIND THESE IDIOTS TO RUN IR AND MVRC?????:bash::bash::ohno::ohno:

Mumbai local trains to get cosier (http://www.hindustantimes.com/Mumbai-local-trains-to-get-cosier/Article1-540855.aspx)

The Mumbai rail journey has been synonymous with profusely sweating passengers struggling to find a footing, stepping on others’ feet, travelling on footboards, rooftops and connecting bumpers, besides latching on to the windows. This means great discomfort and huge risk.
Now, Lucknow’s Research Design and Standards Organisation (RDSO) — the sole R&D wing of the Indian Railways — is all set to help better the scene.
The Research Design and Standards Organisation on Thursday inked a multi-crore MoU with Mumbai Railway Vikas Corporation (MRVC) to considerably improve the quality of journey on board trains there.
This comes as a major boost to the Research Design and Standards Organisation itself especially with major research work being shifted to West Bengal and its relevance being questioned in the wake of failure of safety projects leading to back-to-back accidents.
“For the common passenger, we’re going to up the trains speed up to 110 kmph, increase the number of coaches per train from the existing 12 to 18 for load-shedding, introduce a better ventilation system and ensure a smooth ride by controlling jerks,” said AK Mathur, RDSO’s Executive Director (Admn & PR).
The project file
The Mumbai Urban Transport Project was formulated by the Mumbai Metropolitan Region Development Authority for improvement in traffic and transport situation in Mumbai metropolitan region.
Under this project, the Mumbai Rail Vikas Corporation (MRVC), a joint venture of Indian Railways and Maharashtra, was set up for implementation of railway projects in the Mumbai metropolitan region.
MoU signed
The MoU — meant for development and augmentation of sub-urban rail infrastructure in Mumbai’s metropolitan region — was signed RDSO DG KBL Mittal and MRVC MD PC Sehgal.
The RDSO will also help evolve a system for electrical sub-urban trains in Mumbai. This will mean saving of 35 per cent energy. The Mumbai local trains carry more than 6.1 million commuters on a daily basis. It has the highest passenger density of any urban railway system in the world. However, the passenger density is not synonymous with the infrastructure.
Stats
The Mumbai Urban Transport Project is to cost Rs 45.26 billion (approximately 1 billion US dollars). Most of the money is to be spent on railway projects.
This project is a sequel to the Bombay Urban Transport Project (BUTP) which was completed in the year 1984 at a cost of about Rs. 390 million
The World Bank has sanctioned a loan of Rs. 26020 millions ($ 542 million) i.e. 57% of the total cost.
Mumbai’s Suburban Rail System carries about 64 lakhs (6.4 million) passengers per day.
About 4,700 passengers travel in a 9-car rake during peak hours.

The first thing the Mumbai locals need is automatic closing doors. I see no mention of that. Do they expect people to keep hanging from the doors during peak hours. :bash:

it appears so... btw this is the wrong thread for this article. It should go here (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=719938&page=52)

The first thing the Mumbai locals need is automatic closing doors. I see no mention of that. Do they expect people to keep hanging from the doors during peak hours. :bash:

Don't you think it would affect their capacity. Open doors provide space for atleast 10 extra people. Where they will go if the doors were closed?

Don't you think it would affect their capacity. Open doors provide space for atleast 10 extra people. Where they will go if the doors were closed?

You know its very weird that in the 21st century, instead of thinking about modern and sleeker trains and amenities, we have to think of capacity first. We have to think where to fit these shit loads of people in a train rather than thinking about comfortable journey.

thats because we slept through the second half of the last century

No. Its because people kept themselves busy in producing families the size of Indian Cricket team.

not any more than european countries in the 19th century. probably less

not any more than european countries in the 19th century. probably less

yes, but we have been reproducing like rabbits for a much longer time than any other civilization or country or continent (with the exception of China), so the aggregate numbers are obv gonna be more than any body else's.....the results are there for all to see.....

population is an excuse. countries with much higher densities than india in 1947 have progressed much further. you develop you reduce population growth, not the other way round

I actually like that concept and most of the part is true.

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2573/23869053.png

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2573/23869053.png


^^These idiots are so retarded!! A small child could have told them that the white trains will get dirty!!

They are wasting soo much money painting the trains different colors!! :ohno:

Instead of wasting on paint, these morons should've thought of sleek
looking stainless steel coaches just like Delhi Metro so you invest
less on paint job. Although you can't expect anything modern from ICF.

They can paint them Black and Red.....lol!

Instead of wasting on paint, these morons should've thought of sleek
looking stainless steel coaches just like Delhi Metro so you invest
less on paint job. Although you can't expect anything modern from ICF.

If they had the power to think, wouldn't our lives be a lot easier?

They could have invested in secret video cams at stations and whenever someone spits on trains they are locked up in prisons or fined the lakhs to clean the darn thing.

The IR top brass are becoming clowns with each new announcement they make and they come of as retards, e.g. Violet to red VIBGYOR imagination, what next. There is no effort to think through their ugly non-streamlined design or bad suspensions or ugly doors and windows, ugly decrepit old railway stations. These minions are lost in another world, a reality that is their own making.

Tomorrow if Manikchad comes out with a yellow coloring ghutka/pan masala..are they going to change the color again? bloody morons.

10 people die on the locals every day. Do you think they care about a fucking paan stain. Those two crores can be spent son something much better like a Fence or Automatic Doors. what a disgrace. 6 million people are treated likelivestock every day because some company can't even provide soviet era transportation. People can't even go on strike because their entire lively hood depends on these turds on wheels.

10 people die on the locals every day. Do you think they care about a fucking paan stain. Those two crores can be spent son something much better like a Fence or Automatic Doors. what a disgrace. 6 million people are treated likelivestock every day because some company can't even provide soviet era transportation. People can't even go on strike because their entire lively hood depends on these turds on wheels.


Those people die because they willingly cross the tracks when they know they might die in the process.

The railways have put up fences and signs but these people just break them down and cross the tracks.

They know that they have a safe option of using bridges or the unsafe option of crossing the tracks. If they want to die let them die!

Those people die because they willingly cross the tracks when they know they might die in the process.

The railways have put up fences and signs but these people just break them down and cross the tracks.

They know that they have a safe option of using bridges or the unsafe option of crossing the tracks. If they want to die let them die!

+1

no dont let them die... it causes delays right?

Paan should be banned and so should spitting?

Those people die because they willingly cross the tracks when they know they might die in the process.

The railways have put up fences and signs but these people just break them down and cross the tracks.

They know that they have a safe option of using bridges or the unsafe option of crossing the tracks. If they want to die let them die!

Still, some people get killed by slipping and falling out of opened doors.
And if IR is SOOO interested in aesthetics, Automatic doors are still a necessity.
No mater how aerodynamic and sleek the rakes look or how much technology is used, the sight of people hanging out of the cars would make the train look third world.

My point is, that money could be spent on much more useful things.

Still, some people get killed by slipping and falling out of opened doors.
And if IR is SOOO interested in aesthetics, Automatic doors are still a necessity.
No mater how aerodynamic and sleek the rakes look or how much technology is used, the sight of people hanging out of the cars would make the train look third world.

My point is, that money could be spent on much more useful things.



I think IR should focus on practicality and efficiency before aesthetics. I would rather have an ugly but comfortable& functional train rather than a good looking train that is not well-functional.

Still, some people get killed by slipping and falling out of opened doors.
And if IR is SOOO interested in aesthetics, Automatic doors are still a necessity.
No mater how aerodynamic and sleek the rakes look or how much technology is used, the sight of people hanging out of the cars would make the train look third world.


Sir, dont compare the Mumbai railways with Japan's system. People (Mumbai Local train tavellers Union) will hold a rail roko if such a thing happens where people are pushed and cramped like vegetables in an overloaded mixer just to close the doors.

If automated doors are done, then due to the public, the doors would never close and trains would never move :lol:

There, japan employs staff for pushing the people inside trains. Here a local rake of 12 cars has 3 doors/car, with 1 train every 5 mins for 20 hours in 365 days a year, imagine the huge amount of staff required to push the people inside :cheers:

I think if such people (pushers) are employed then the travellers will themselves push the pushers out of the platform.

Every 5 minutes? The frequency is more than that. Its probably every 2 or 3 minutes.

Tomorrow if Manikchad comes out with a yellow coloring ghutka/pan masala..are they going to change the color again? bloody morons.

Make Manikchand pay for the paint job:lol:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/State-wants-AC-local-trains/Article1-545563.aspx

The state government wants city’s seven million rail commuters to travel in air-conditioned comfort.
This is what government officials told the railways and the Integral Coach Factory (ICF) in Chennai during a visit to the factory on Saturday.
“Half of Mumbai’s population travels by local trains and the state is worried about the quality of travel in these trains today. We have suggested that local trains in Mumbai be made air-conditioned so that it improves the quality of life and travel,” said T.C. Benjamin, principal secretary (urban development), who visited the ICF factory.
Former Railway Minister Lalu Prasad Yadav had suggested the possibility of introducing air-conditioned suburban trains in Mumbai by 2012. Senior railway officials from the Research Design and Standards Organisation in Lucknow are already working on the “tough task” of designing AC trains for Mumbai’s super dense crowd.
The challenge is to design a coach that can accommodate rush hour traffic and provide air-conditioning without compromising on space and safety. They are examining the concept of air curtains at the doors to keep coaches cool even if the door is not closed. An air curtain, a fan with a powerful jet, is a ventilation device used for separating two spaces from each other.
“The railways have said to provide an air-conditioned train, they will require to shut the doors, which may not be possible in Mumbai,” Benjamin said. Mumbai Railway Vikas Corporation managing director Pramod Chander Sehgal said the new trains will be better than the existing violet trains.
“The new trains will have a steel body and more swank interiors. We are also considering changing the colour due to the problem of stains due to spitting, but the railway board is yet to finalise it,” Sehgal said.
The railways are manufacturing a fresh set of trains under the second phase of the Rs 5,300-crore Mumbai Urban Transport Project funded jointly by the state government, the Indian Railways and the World Bank.

"State is worried about the quality of travel in these trains today?"

Why? The quality has been the same past 15 years. All of a sudden a wake-up call?

a slight fear from the competition to be posed by the charkop - bandra stretch ? Or maybe wishful thinking....
I hope its a sign of things to come....

Why not have just one AC compartment and charge higher so that upper middle class will give up their cars and have a comfortable journey. That will be atleast a beginning for the era of closed doors in Mumbai locals.

And do you know how much mad rush it would be to do something like that?

They are renovating the churchgate and dadar stations. Part of dadar and churchgate stations were cladded up (blue and grey....) last time I went there abt a week back.

Cool.

Skywalk outside Borivli Station . Couldn't find a better thread to post these.
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/5607/img7266gk.jpg
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/8958/img7265g.jpg

second pic skywalk looks good :)

Every 5 minutes? The frequency is more than that. Its probably every 2 or 3 minutes.

+1

I would say they look good. But I am still not in the favor of building these monstrous pedestrian bridges. Mihir, did you ever get a chance to get on these? Do a lot of people even use it?

I would say they look good. But I am still not in the favor of building these monstrous pedestrian bridges. Mihir, did you ever get a chance to get on these? Do a lot of people even use it?

MOst are still u/c . So its too early to tell

I would say they look good. But I am still not in the favor of building these monstrous pedestrian bridges. Mihir, did you ever get a chance to get on these? Do a lot of people even use it?

I guess they are nothing more than elevated footpaths ... Why do I get the wicked idea to remove the at grade footpaths (if they exist!) and use the space for the road itself ...

another idea ... why just not provide cycle tracks on the skywalks ... :nuts::banana::baeh3:

I would say they look good. But I am still not in the favor of building these monstrous pedestrian bridges. Mihir, did you ever get a chance to get on these? Do a lot of people even use it?

but skywalk will certainly help mumbaikars in rainy days.... if another july 26 happens at least people will use it for life saving purpose :lol:

AC trains...another pipe dream that's never going to happen...

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/1796/19302087.png

All the colors suggested above look ugly!!

thats because the dabbas look ugly. its putting lipstick on a pig

And do you know how much mad rush it would be to do something like that?

Though not a regular user, I see the crowd in the trains in the evenings during traffic jams near Andheri Subway. The first class compartments can be easily closed even considering the peak hour traffic in evenings (towards Borivili).
They can try AC compartments on experimental basis and then introduce 1 compartment in every 5 trains. Would not reduce the capacity much, but will increase the revenues.

All the colors suggested above look ugly!!

yes. any school kid could have come up with that. Surely the designers lack imagination, enthusiasim etc etc ? How sad :ohno:

I would say they look good. But I am still not in the favor of building these monstrous pedestrian bridges. Mihir, did you ever get a chance to get on these? Do a lot of people even use it?

I have used the one that leads out of Borivili Stn. to Chandravarkar Lane. It is convenient. The public furniture is decent. I think more people should use it for point-point travel near the station area....will help decongest the market area arnd Borivili W stn area....

AC trains...another pipe dream that's never going to happen...

A air curtain would be good. A full A/C coach would mean atleast INR 100 mill (10 cr) a piece....are we ready dish out that kinda money to travel like cattle???

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/7901/17032010007001.jpg

LOL....Apparently the reporter forgot his math while taking journalism classes. It is reported that it costs INR 3 L to fit 1 coach with a blower, meaning the total cost of fitting a 12 coach train with blowers is INR 36 L. However, it also mentions in the next line that the total cost of the 12 coach train after fitting of blowers goes upto 36 L. Does that mean the original cost of the coaches was......ZERO????

WR to flag off 35 more 12-car rakes tomorrow

MUMBAI: Commuters will get slightly more elbow space from Monday after Western Railway (WR) converts 35 nine-car services to 12-car services. This will increase the carrying capacity of each service by 33%.

Of the 35 12-car services, 26 will ply between Churchgate and Borivli, seven between Churchgate and Andheri and two between Churchgate and Goregaon.

Some of the services being converted to 12-car are—8.28 am and 10.53 am from Borivli, 8.18 am from Goregaon, 9.39 am from Andheri in the morning peak hour. Borivli locals from Churchgate at 5.21 pm, 7.25 pm, 8.42 pm and the Andheri local at 6.54 pm in the evening peak hour will also be 12-car.

Since January 2009, WR has augmented 104 nine-car services to 12 car. The number of 12-car services have shot up to 753, which is 62% of the total daily 1,210 services, including 12 15-car rakes.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/WR-to-flag-off-35-more-12-car-rakes-tomorrow/articleshow/5963926.cms

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/WR-unveils-Rs-750-cr-plan-to-segregate-Harbour-Line/articleshow/5963908.cms

MUMBAI: If you're a regular commuter taking the Harbour line towards Andheri, be prepared for a sea change in the route you take. In an ambitious project estimated at Rs 750 crore, Western Railway (WR) plans to shift the Harbour Line corridor from the east to the west immediately after Mahim station, instead of Bandra, which is the current route. The reason for this move, say officials, is to segregate the Harbour line from the Western corridor, thereby creating space to lay more lines for long-distance and local WR trains.

It will help WR create space for an ongoing expansion project that involves the laying of a fifth and sixth line between Bandra and Borivli. But this will be easier said than done: the plan not only calls for the razing of the flyover at Khar—that transports nine-car Harbour line locals from Khar to Bandra—but also the construction of a new railway flyover starting just after Mahim station and ending near the Mithi River in Bandra.

Already, two new additional lines are being laid out across the Mithi. This will now be used exclusively for Harbour line trains. The blueprint calls for an additional fifth and sixth line to the Western corridor, and though housed on the East, they will be segregated from the Harbour line. Finer details of the plans, which are available exclusively with TOI, show that the present fifth line that enters the Bandra Terminus will be defunct at a later stage.

With the Mumbai Railway Vikas Corporation (MRVC) planning under the second phase of the MUTP-II to extend the Harbour line to Goregaon, there will be eight lines—an increase of three to four lines—between Bandra and Goregaon. Two will be used for slow trains, two for fast locals, two for Harbour line, and two for long-distance trains.

Chief administrative officer (construction), WR, Subodh Jain said: "Surveys for the project have been on-going for the last two years by Rail India Technical and Economic Services Ltd and the first survey has been sanctioned by the Railway Board (RB). This is an MRVC-funded project that is being carried out by WR."

For the execution of the project, the Harbour and Western lines will exchange sides, and tracks will be pushed aside to make space for the new lines. The expansion calls for staff residences to be shifted. "Staff quarters, which are on the east side of existing tracks at Vile Parle, Santa Cruz and Dadar, will be brought down. Staff will be shifted to a high-rise in Dadar," added Jain.

Railway officials say the project will bring a huge relief to Mumbai's saturated lines. There will be a separate corridor for long distance trains, that is, two separate lines from Virar to Mumbai Central, putting an end to the fight for space between out-station and local trains. No concrete deadline has been set.

The project has been sanctioned under MUTP and is now being examined by the RB. "The tenders, are already ready. Once the RB gives the go-ahead we will start the project," said Jain.

WR to flag off 35 more 12-car rakes tomorrow

MUMBAI: Commuters will get slightly more elbow space from Monday after Western Railway (WR) converts 35 nine-car services to 12-car services. This will increase the carrying capacity of each service by 33%.

Of the 35 12-car services, 26 will ply between Churchgate and Borivli, seven between Churchgate and Andheri and two between Churchgate and Goregaon.

Some of the services being converted to 12-car are—8.28 am and 10.53 am from Borivli, 8.18 am from Goregaon, 9.39 am from Andheri in the morning peak hour. Borivli locals from Churchgate at 5.21 pm, 7.25 pm, 8.42 pm and the Andheri local at 6.54 pm in the evening peak hour will also be 12-car.

Since January 2009, WR has augmented 104 nine-car services to 12 car. The number of 12-car services have shot up to 753, which is 62% of the total daily 1,210 services, including 12 15-car rakes.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/WR-to-flag-off-35-more-12-car-rakes-tomorrow/articleshow/5963926.cms

:cheers:

Source (http://www.mumbaimirror.com/article/2/2010051420100514031045342c544f84e/On-tracks-soon-A-local-between-Virar-and-Panvel.html)
This will come as a relief to those who live in suburbs such as Virar and commute to Panvel.
The Mumbai Rail Vikas Corporation’s (MRVC) has proposed that new suburban locals be started that would connect the two ends and via Vasai, Bhiwandi, Diva and a host of smaller stations.
This route is part of MRVC’s plan for the third phase of the Mumbai Urban Transport Project (MUTP).

http://cms.mumbaimirror.com/portalfiles/1/2/201005/Image/140510/08-02a.jpg
http://cms.mumbaimirror.com/portalfiles/1/2/201005/Image/140510/08-02b.jpg
Illustration: Vikram

At present, there are only five shuttles plying on this route daily, leaving passengers fighting for breathing space. Of these, only one train connects Dahanu and Virar to Panvel. Others start from Vasai and often terminate at Diva.
There are only two lines on which mail express trains, goods trains and shuttles ply.
According to the proposal, there will be two additional lines on which only local trains will run. “Once lines dedicated to local trains are built, frequency of trains can be decided after studying the existing usage patterns,” said P C Sehgal, managing director of MRVC.
“The shuttles have only nine coaches. Almost 500 passengers are huddled in each of them during peak hours, also because the frequency is low. Local trains that will ply on dedicated tracks will have 12 coaches,” said a railway source.
The 74 km route from Virar to Panvel has 11 stops currently and takes a little over two hours to complete its journey. “The suburban trains, which use better technology as compared to shuttles, will help commuters cut travelling time by 10-20 per cent.
We also plan to have fast trains with limited stops,” the source added. However, the proposal is waiting for a nod from the State Government and Railway board.
The cost for laying both lines is likely to be around Rs 3,000 crore, while the rail works component of MUTP III is likely to cost Rs 30,000 crore. The first and second phases of the project have been partly funded by the World Bank.

illustration is good..:)

so the new rakes are going to built by either alstom, bombardier, bhel, a korean company or a japanese company. these are the 5 who are part of the bid for rakes under MUTP II

lets hope they are way better than the dabbas made by icf for mutp I

ICF can't think outside the box.

literally

I spent a couple of days in Navi Mumbai last week. Some observations:

- As most of us know the stations in NM are lot bigger than Mumbai suburban stations, with dual platforms. However, I found them dirtier than before (3-4 years back) but definitely still lot cleaner than Mumbai suburban stations.

- I was really pleased to see Thane-Nerul slow trains. Couldn't see Thane-Panvel fast trains as they are really infrequent (but am happy with the idea that they do exist!). This can lead way for a full throttle and high frequency Thane-Panvel section in near future with slow & fast trains just like WR or CR in Mumbai. can anyone tell why are there so many platforms (6 i think) at Nerul and other intermediate stations when only 2-3 are used now. are these for future fast trains or are they planning to segregate Mumbai CST - Panvel Harbour Line platforms from Thane - Nerul platforms?

- I'm excited about the new line from Seawoods to Uran whenever they complete it and begin operation. The Vasai - Panvel line is long due and should begin operation soon with connections to Kalyan.

In the meanwhile, I am starting to fall in love with Navi Mumbai! :)

so the new rakes are going to built by either alstom, bombardier, bhel, a korean company or a japanese company.

lets hope they are way better than the dabbas made by icf for mutp I


You are mistaken. One of these companies will manufacture the electricals and electronics of the rakes only. The coaches will be built by ICF :wallbash:

oh ffs! are you serious? like the siemens rakes then, glorified dabbas

I spent a couple of days in Navi Mumbai last week. Some observations:

- As most of us know the stations in NM are lot bigger than Mumbai suburban stations, with dual platforms. However, I found them dirtier than before (3-4 years back) but definitely still lot cleaner than Mumbai suburban stations.

- I was really pleased to see Thane-Nerul slow trains. Couldn't see Thane-Panvel fast trains as they are really infrequent (but am happy with the idea that they do exist!). This can lead way for a full throttle and high frequency Thane-Panvel section in near future with slow & fast trains just like WR or CR in Mumbai. can anyone tell why are there so many platforms (6 i think) at Nerul and other intermediate stations when only 2-3 are used now. are these for future fast trains or are they planning to segregate Mumbai CST - Panvel Harbour Line platforms from Thane - Nerul platforms?

- I'm excited about the new line from Seawoods to Uran whenever they complete it and begin operation. The Vasai - Panvel line is long due and should begin operation soon with connections to Kalyan.

In the meanwhile, I am starting to fall in love with Navi Mumbai! :)


IR had planned a Neurl-Belapur CBD- Uran corridor as you said. but not some reports saying it will be a metro line others saying IR will do it etc etc etc.

One platform they had planned a train from Karjat, dont know what happened to that.

Also again as you said they plan to increase the frequency of the Thane to Nerul route and even extend the direct Thane to Uran and Thane to Panvel route.

So at present anything can take place cause this station was built with IR only in mind for future expansion. With metro corridor also planned its anybodies guess what exactly will happen.

The older rakes were from Alstom (don't know what was the actual contribution of Alstom in them) and the new ones are from Siemens. Both of them are known for their excellent rail products worldwide but here they are spoiling their name by getting associated with dabbas made by ICF. It would be so much better if Siemens or Alstom have their own manufacturing plant in India for modern commuter trains (just like we have Bombardier in Gujarat, manufacturing trains for DMRC).

Can someone answer this question. Does IR buy the suburban trains form ICF because they are only allowed to do so or because there just isn't anyone else capable of producing them locally (which seems impossible)?

I mean have they ever gone for competitive bidding, or just walk over to ICF to ask for more? considering ICF is backed up, couldn't they order some of the coached from other suppliers?

^^ It's because ICF can do it lot more cheaper. ICF rakes cost 1.5 cr per car, while Bombardier rake for metro costs 8 cr per car.

^^ It's because ICF can do it lot more cheaper. ICF rakes cost 1.5 cr per car, while Bombardier rake for metro costs 8 cr per car.

For 1.5 cr we can get dubbas only, which is unfair considering the moolah that the Mumbai locals bring in for the railways. Though it is fair to say that they are so much cheaper compared to local trains here in Toronto which are also shit boxes.. just air-conditioned.. In the last 9 yrs cash fares here have gone up by approximately 33% and a one way tkt cost $3 cash today.

For 1.5 cr we can get dubbas only, which is unfair considering the moolah that the Mumbai locals bring in for the railways. Though it is fair to say that they are so much cheaper compared to local trains here in Toronto which are also shit boxes.. just air-conditioned.. In the last 9 yrs cash fares here have gone up by approximately 33% and a one way tkt cost $3 cash today.

to further that its the first class of the suburban railways which brings in the money. The second class etc is heavily subsidised.

For 1.5 cr we can get dubbas only, which is unfair considering the moolah that the Mumbai locals bring in for the railways. Though it is fair to say that they are so much cheaper compared to local trains here in Toronto which are also shit boxes.. just air-conditioned.. In the last 9 yrs cash fares here have gone up by approximately 33% and a one way tkt cost $3 cash today.


Given the huge commuting population of Mumbai, it makes sense that they buy huge number of cheap dubbas than buying a tiny number of great but expensive coaches.

HT (http://www.hindustantimes.com/No-longitudinal-seats-in-city-trains/Article1-550971.aspx)
There will be no change in seating arrangement in the new suburban local trains expected under the second phase of the Rs 5,300 crore Mumbai Urban Transport project.

While adopting best practices from railways across the world for the city’s new trains, the railways have refused to adopt longitudinal seating fearing a public backlash.

"The last time WR changed the seating arrangement and set up longitudinal seats (parallel to the length of the train as they exist in Delhi) in a local train on an experimental basis, some commuters had moved the court and it became a complicated process. We will not change the seating pattern," a top railway official.

The railways have ordered a fresh set of trains for second phase of the MUTP, which is being jointly funded by the Maharashtra government, Indian Railways and the World Bank.

The Mumbai Railway Vikas Corporation (MRVC) is coordinating major railway projects in the city. MRVC managing director PC Sehgal confirmed there will be no change in the seating arrangement. "The seats will be better, but the layout will not change," he said.

WR did introduce three coaches with fewer seats in a similar experiment. The seat dimensions were reduced — instead of comfortably seating three, it now seats only two. However, it frees up more space for commuters standing in the gangway, and thus carries more passengers.

Source (http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report_ashok-chavan-asks-railways-to-run-fast-trains-on-harbour-line_1390850)
Mumbai: For thousands of commuters travelling by the harbour line trains of the Central Railways, there is something to cheer about.

Chief Minister Ashok Chavan has asked the officials of Central Railways as well as the Mumbai Rail Vikas Corporation (MRVC) to explore the possibility of running fast services on the line.

During a presentation made to the chief minister by MRVC, he asked the officials to consider various other options to improve the quality of the rail travel in the city.

According to officials, Chavan has requested CR officials to expedite as well as prioritise the Virar-Vasai-Diva-Panvel corridor during the third phase of Mumbai Urban Transport Project (MUTP).

In the wake of acute water shortage the city is facing, Chavan also asked if recycled water can be used to clean the compartments.

"Under MUTP-II, six laning of the Central Railways corridor between Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus up to Kurla and Thane up to Diva has been planned. We expect the work to be completed by 2015,” said Chavan.

He added that under the second phase,thesixth lane of the Mumbai Central-Borivli corridor of the Western Railways will also be laid. ‘This would mean that the total length of suburban rail will go up by 88km from the existing 790km. 96 new nine-coach rakes will also be added to the fleet. We also intend to make all the CR, WR trains 12-coach-long. I have also advised the officials to expedite the “air cooling system” in the rakes which can bring the temperatures down by 2 to 3 degrees, “ said the CM.

Chavan saidthe state is requesting the Centre to come up with a commemorative postal stamp on the day the 101st rake arrives in the city in October this year.

HT (http://www.hindustantimes.com/CST-Kurla-additional-rail-lines-by-2015-Chavan/Article1-551939.aspx)
Work on laying the fifth and sixth rail tracks between Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus and Kurla station and Thane and Diva stations will be completed by 2015, Chief Minister Ashok Chavan said on Tuesday.

Chavan made the announcement at a review meeting of various works of Mumbai Urban Transport Project-II — the World Bank-funded project

that aims at improving the rail and road infrastructure of the city.

He added that as part of the MUTP-II, additional fifth and sixth lines will be laid between Borivli and Churchgate stations, thus increasing the suburban rail network from 790 km to 878 km.

Moreover, under MUTP-II, 96 new trains will be pressed into service and all nine-coach trains on the central and western lines will be converted into 12-coach trains to ease commuter load.

The CM said there are plans to introduce 12-coach trains on the Harbour Line.

Under the third phase of the project, the Mumbai Rail Vikas Corporation plans to start the Virar-Vasai-Diva-Panvel route, lay the fifth and sixth lines on the Borivli-Virar stretch and lay the third and fourth lines on the Dahanu-Virar stretch.

There are plans to extend the Harbour line from Andheri till Borivli and also introduce fast trains on the line, Chavan said.

Under the project, 86 new trains have been pressed into service and the 101th new train will start plying by September.

Chavan said the state government will issue a commemorative stamp for the MUTP

Source (http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/avoid-washing-coaches-with-drinking-water-cm/628060/)

Mumbai: In view of the acute drinking water shortage faced by municipal corporations and other local bodies, Chief Minister Ashok Chavan has told the railways to minimise use of potable water for washing coaches and instead explore other sources.
Chavan, during a visit to the Mumbai Rail Vikas Corporation (MRVC), was talking particularly in reference to the Virar car shed to be commissioned by year-end.

He said the railways should avoid using drinking water to wash trains. Sources said Chavan also spoke to Central Railway (CR) and Western Railway (WR) officials regarding drinking water being used for washing.

“Looking at the scarcity, the Chief Minister told us to look at alternatives. He suggested us to dig borewells, undertake rainwater harvesting and if possible set up a desalination plant,” said Pramod Chander Sehgal, managing director of MRVC. “We would take steps accordingly and dig borewells.”

The Virar shed is estimated to use 3.5 lakh litres of water per day. The nearby Vasai-Virar and Nalasopara areas have been facing water shortage and to solve the problem, the state government has plans to bring water to these areas from Surya dam.

The water provided by the state government and used by to wash rakes is mostly meant for drinking. “The state government had earlier hinted about it and we are acting accordingly. At Mumbai Central and Bandra, we are cleaning rakes with jet-pipes to conserve water. We also intend to dig borewells,” said WR chief spokesperson Shyam Sunder Gupta.

Reviewing Phase I and II of the Mumbai Urban Transport Project (MUTP), Chavan stressed speeding up the fifth and sixth lines, between Thane and Diva and Kurla and Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus respectively and also starting a line between Virar, Kalyan and Panvel for better connectivity of the eastern, western and the harbour line corridors as growth centres have been planned there. The state government is also keen on extending the harbour line from Goregaon to Borivali in Phase III of the MUTP.

“The state government has also promised to look into the Bandra land issue as the money would finally be used for MUTP projects,” added Sehgal. The land near Bandra railway station has been caught in an ownership row between the railways and the state government.

A stamp to celebrate
The state government and the railways have decided to commemorate the golden jubilee of the state formation and the arrival of 101 new rakes for the city under MUTP Phase I by coming up with a stamp and First Day Cover. The state government has assured the railways to take it up with the concerned minister.

For 1.5 cr we can get dubbas only, which is unfair considering the moolah that the Mumbai locals bring in for the railways. Though it is fair to say that they are so much cheaper compared to local trains here in Toronto which are also shit boxes.. just air-conditioned.. In the last 9 yrs cash fares here have gone up by approximately 33% and a one way tkt cost $3 cash today.

Was there in Toronto this Sunday. I got a pass for $10 for Train, Bus, and Tram which includes 2 people. Though buying a pass of $10 bucks everyday would be expensive, I found it cheap for me since I was there for just a day. :)

Anyways regarding ICF, can't expect anything better from them. These people need the ability to think different.

thank b2c for updates...:)

For 1.5 cr we can get dubbas only, which is unfair considering the moolah that the Mumbai locals bring in for the railways. Though it is fair to say that they are so much cheaper compared to local trains here in Toronto which are also shit boxes.. just air-conditioned.. In the last 9 yrs cash fares here have gone up by approximately 33% and a one way tkt cost $3 cash today.

Passenger division in IR runs in losses always. It is the freight division which earns profits. But talking about financial viability for a social project is myopic. Railways must improve the services whether it earns profits or losses from suburban railway.

Given the huge commuting population of Mumbai, it makes sense that they buy huge number of cheap dubbas than buying a tiny number of great but expensive coaches.

There are many other cities which same or more number of commuters than Mumbai but they didn't thought like that (buying dabbas).

and btw

if the Kurla-CST track 5 and 6 is completed by 2015

the eastern side does not need a metro (ghatkopar to Chowk)


people on the eastern side can just change trains at CST to get to Nariman point/Colaba

Source (http://www.indianexpress.com/news/smart-trains-on-way-so-govt-asks-rlys-to-crack-down-on-spitting/630303/0)
Mumbai: The railways does not have a rule that specifies spitting as an offence; the state government wants that to change before the arrival of the swanky new trains under the Mumbai Urban Transport Project (MUTP).

In a review of MUTP phases 1 and 2, the government has asked Central Railway and Western Railway to act strictly against anyone who spits on stations and compartments. Chief Minister Ashok Chavan stressed this before CR and WR officials in the meeting at the Mumbai Rail Vikas Corporation (MRVC) office at Churchgate, sources present at the metting said. “Since fining people at stations is under the domain of the railways, the Chief Minister asked CR and WR to act strictly against people who commit the offence,” said a railway official.

Government officials had visited the Integral Coach Factory early this year and were toying with the idea of having the colour scheme of trains changed, so that the result of spitting (usually red) would be less visible than one can expect on the upcoming purple trains. The idea was, however, dropped as a lot has already been spent on the colour scheme, which has also been received positively by commuters. Instead, the officials decided, the government would ask the railways to act against people who spit.

The government is also keen to make commuting in trains more hygienic. The Metro and Monorail are due to start early next year, and these are likely to pay more attention to hygiene.

In the absence of a rule against spitting, the railways book those who spit under various offences. “Since there is no mention of spitting as an offence under the Indian Railway Act, we book people for damaging railway property and causing inconvenience to other passengers,” said Shriniwas Mudgerikar, chief spokesperson, CR. “We are adopting a strategy of making people aware about the ill-effects of spitting.”

The railways spends crores in cleaning trains and stations stained by spitting.

HT (http://www.hindustantimes.com/Deaths-on-tracks-go-down/Article1-554637.aspx)
The railway police’s consistent drive against track crossing seems to have achieved some success.

The figures in the last three years suggest a decline in the number of deaths due to crossing.

The decline in the graph, the police officials believe, is due to their intensified drive against those crossing the railway tracks.

As per the statistics available with the police, there were 3,782 deaths that were recorded in the year 2008, which came down to 3,706 in the year 2009. The figure came further down to 787, in the year 2010 (January-March).

Which means the average number of deaths per month in the year 2008 were 315, which came down to 308 in 2009 and 262 in the calendar year.

“This has been possible due to our consistent campaign against those offending the rules,” said Assistant Commissioner of Police D. S. Chavan of the railway police.

The Mumbai rail system is divided into two zones- Western Railway and Eastern Railway- and is spread over an area of 303 kilometers. Around 7 million people commute by trains on a daily basis.

The officials said most deaths in the railways occur due to passengers crossing the tracks on foot, instead of using the footbridges and are hit by passing trains.

A considerable number of passengers also die when they hang from the doors and accidentally bang against the poles outside.

The railway police has been conducting frequent drives against track crossing at all the small as well as major railway stations across the city.

Hundreds of passengers were caught on a daily basis during the drive and were left after being lectured about the hazards of railway crossing.

In some cases instead of fining or jailing the offenders, the railway police adopted Gandhigiri by distributing red roses.

HT (http://www.hindustantimes.com/Central-Railway-sets-new-track-record/Article1-549562.aspx)
The Central Railway's suburban rail network in Mumbai will soon be running the second largest number of services single network by a single mainline railway in a day.

The Central Railway, with the introduction of 62 additional services from May 29, will touch the mark of 1,556 suburban services in a day, second only to the Delhi Metro.

"This far surpasses Western Railway's daily suburban services of 1,210. Daily mainline suburban services run in cities such as Kolkata, Chennai and Delhi, but they are not even close," a senior official said requesting anonymity.

Delhi Metro, a public enterprise, runs 1,900 services daily.

"Mumbai's network is a complex network and during peak hours, there is a train every three minutes. The CR plans to add more services as soon as the work on the line is converted from direct current (DC) to alternating current (AC)," the official added.

The network is also adding more corridors that will give it space for more trains. "Railway Minister Mamata Banerjee has proposed segregating the suburban services from the outstation ones, which will allow us to add more trains that are being inducted under the World Bank project," the officer said.

Among the new services to be introduced are four ladies' special trains, Mathrubhoomi special, on the trans-harbour line on the Thane-Panvel section.

These trains will, however, run as general services on Sundays and holidays.

The additional services are an initiative of CR's general manager Bharat Bhushan Modgil who is retiring on Monday.

While 18 additional trains have been introduced on the harbour line, 44 were introduced on the Thane-Vashi-Panvel trans-harbour line. Panvel is emerging as the next transport hub for outstation trains.

"We are going to increase services on the main line too once it is converted from DC to AC in a few months," S.C. Mudgerikar, CR's spokesperson, said.

The network is also planning to introduce 12-car trains on the trans-harbour line and is increasing the length of platforms.

Passenger division in IR runs in losses always. It is the freight division which earns profits. But talking about financial viability for a social project is myopic. Railways must improve the services whether it earns profits or losses from suburban railway.

Not true.The Mumbai Suburban Railway is the exception which i had read a couple of years ago was the lone profit making one in india.(here i am specifically mentioning the Suburban section not CR or WR)



There are many other cities which same or more number of commuters than Mumbai but they didn't thought like that (buying dabbas).

Forget many, Can you name just one City or Suburban Railway which has more commuters then Mumbai (6.8 Million per day)?
In fact the term "Super Dense Crush Load" was coined by experts just to describe the horrific conditions in which the great Mumbaikars commute (12-18 commuters per sq m)
Even after the advent of the longest suburban train in the world in Mumbai (15 Coach trains) the situation would barely improve as any gains through increased carriage capacity would be offset by the increase in the number of commuters which is scheduled to touch 90 Million :ohno:.(The railways plans for an all 15 coach fleet is not even proposed in MUTP-III which is scheduled to be completed in 2020).

Forget many, Can you name just one City or Suburban Railway which has more commuters then Mumbai (6.8 Million per day)?


tokyo, seoul, moscow,...

tokyo, seoul, moscow,...

tokyo 6.22 million
source
http://www.tokyometro.jp/global/en/about/outline.html


Moscow
Daily ridership
6.55 million (average, 2009),
8.95 million (highest, 2009)
source
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_Metro

Seoul Metropolitan Subway
5.6 million
source
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seoul_Metropolitan_Subway

So Mumbai has highest daily ridership :)

all those cities also have commuter rails as well. you have taken stats for only one operator in tokyo

the tokyo metro itself handles 8.7 million a day. the commuter rail handles 16.8 million a day! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_suburban_and_commuter_rail_systems)

add in the commuter rails of seoul and moscow as well and they will both go beyond bombay

bombay may well have the highest numbers of bus passengers. but i am not so sure

all those cities also have commuter rails as well. you have taken stats for only one operator in tokyo

aren't we talking about only one operator ie. mumbai local?


the tokyo metro itself handles 8.7 million a day.
its includes four systems which make it 8.7 million

There are two primary subway operators in Tokyo:
Tokyo Metro. Formerly Teito Rapid Transit Authority (Eidan), privatized in 2004 and presently operating 168 stations and nine lines. The minimum price for one ride is 160 yen.
Tokyo Metropolitan Bureau of Transportation (Toei). An arm of the Tokyo Metropolitan Government, operates 106 stations in four lines. The minimum price for one ride is 170 yen.
In addition:
The Tokyo Waterfront Area Rapid Transit (TWR) operates a single mostly-underground line with eight stations.
Saitama Railway Line which is essentially an extension of the Tokyo Metro Namboku Line operates a single mostly-underground line with eight stations.

source
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Subway

if u only count metro then below are official page
http://www.tokyometro.jp/global/en/about/outline.html

another link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Metro


bombay may well have the highest numbers of bus passengers. but i am not so sure

its 4.8 million a day
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brihanmumbai_Electric_Supply_and_Transport#Transport

so if we are talking about only one operator then again i think mumbai local has most daily ridership :)

There are two primary subway operators in Tokyo:
Tokyo Metro. Formerly Teito Rapid Transit Authority (Eidan), privatized in 2004 and presently operating 168 stations and nine lines. The minimum price for one ride is 160 yen.
Tokyo Metropolitan Bureau of Transportation (Toei). An arm of the Tokyo Metropolitan Government, operates 106 stations in four lines. The minimum price for one ride is 170 yen.
In addition:
The Tokyo Waterfront Area Rapid Transit (TWR) operates a single mostly-underground line with eight stations.
Saitama Railway Line which is essentially an extension of the Tokyo Metro Namboku Line operates a single mostly-underground line with eight stations.
Those are subway operators in Tokyo, which are only a small fraction of the 30 operators running 121 passenger rail lines in the city, carrying around 20 million pax/day total. (Nobody really knows the real figure, because you can't just add up numbers -- many passengers use more than one operator.)

Anyway, the biggest single operator is JR East, which runs 23 train lines in Tokyo and carries 16.86 million passengers per day. Not all of those are in Tokyo, but the majority are, and JR East's Yamanote Line alone carries ~3.5m passengers per day.

http://www.jreast.co.jp/e/data/

aren't we talking about only one operator ie. mumbai local?

there are two operators in bombay - CR and WR. they have close to zero synergies

The point i assume of all this is that.. it is possible to provide better services even though there is a huge rush!!

Then again i'm fairly sure the operators in Japan wouldn't get sued for making all the seating horizontal either!!

The point i assume of all this is that.. it is possible to provide better services even though there is a huge rush!!

Then again i'm fairly sure the operators in Japan wouldn't get sued for making all the seating horizontal either!!

I guess what happens is that many of the suburban section trains start from places like Ambernath and kalyan.ie trains start from there so the train when is arrives at the platform is empty. So potential for getting a seat is high.

So if your going to stand for 1:30 hour its not nice. Vertical seating will be welcomed maybe by those who live maybe half an hour from their destination.

I have noticed a lot of people I know moved from Mulund to Thane even though they have to get down at CST near their place of work for the fact that many trains originate from thane so they can get a seat. People dont mind 5 min extra time.

As a solution maybe they need to increase the number of trains and type of trains. Have a mixture of horizontal/vertical trains in the central line /western line from Boriviali and thane to churchgate and cst.

ie they need to mix it up.

All slow trains horizontal average speed 35km per hour

All fast trains vertical vertical seating. Barring those originating from Ambernath/Kalyan/Vasai. Increase average speed to 60km per hour.


What a suburban system and different tracks does it give you can option to mix it up. Maybe they need more fast line services and less slow services.

there are two operators in bombay - CR and WR. they have close to zero synergies

but they come under one ie. IR who operate them WR/CR just two division to handle each line? correct me if i m wrong? I was trying to say that different operator like say mumbai metro, mumbai locals, mumbai monorail, BEST etc.....:)

So if your going to stand for 1:30 hour its not nice. Vertical seating will be welcomed maybe by those who live maybe half an hour from their destination.

As a solution maybe they need to increase the number of trains and type of trains. Have a mixture of horizontal/vertical trains in the central line /western line from Boriviali and thane to churchgate and cst.

ie they need to mix it up.

All slow trains horizontal average speed 35km per hour

All fast trains vertical vertical seating. Barring those originating from Ambernath/Kalyan/Vasai. Increase average speed to 60km per hour.


+1, they need to mix it up. from cst to thane/Borivili

+1, they need to mix it up. from cst to thane/Borivili

I do think that services from thane and mulund to cst are one fast every 5 min to cst during 7am to 10am operating at about 50 km per hour.

But once the lines 5-6 extend from kurla to cst. Remember Kurla to thane is done. There is a potential to shift all the fast services from Thane to CST or even Kalyan/Ambernath to CST on the 5th and 6th lines.

In which case potentially you can have one fast train every 2 min during rush hour which 12 wagon trains operating at about 60km per hour considering a dedicated track.

If the above does happen I think capacity will be soaked up and you might not even have a super dense load anymore. Ie supply of capacity will meet demand.This should have ideally happened in the 90s. But it will be a boon none the less if they manage it by even 2020


Might be wise to then build a metro only for the western side and MMDRA maybe should redeploy the money on the eastern side to other projects like maybe making LBS marg which is really not in good shape into a city expressway/highway with low number of signals



The real issue is on the western flank. It badly needs the Bandra to Colaba link.

But once the lines 5-6 extend from kurla to cst.
any idea about dead line?

any idea about dead line?

hmm it says 2015 from the article posted by B2C

but knowing IR i would say 2020

hmm it says 2015 from the article posted by B2C

but knowing IR i would say 2020

:bash: to build 2 lines that too on land...5-10 years :bash:

I guess what happens is that many of the suburban section trains start from places like Ambernath and kalyan.ie trains start from there so the train when is arrives at the platform is empty. So potential for getting a seat is high.

So if your going to stand for 1:30 hour its not nice. Vertical seating will be welcomed maybe by those who live maybe half an hour from their destination.

.

+1 . One more thing. Most of the people from the far suburbs sleep in the trains to get their fair share of 6-7 hours of sleep daily.

:bash: to build 2 lines that too on land...5-10 years :bash:

well thane to kurla was lol construction started from 1998 and ended hmm about now ish

so thats 12 years for about 19km

Kurla to CST is about 16km so based on the same rate of proposal 10 years seems like an accurate guess.

Kurla to CST is about 16km so based on the same rate of proposal 10 years seems like an accurate guess.

:lol::ohno::bash:

bombay may well have the highest numbers of bus passengers. but i am not so sure

Most of the people in Mumbai travel in trains, while in Delhi most of the people (still) travel in buses. At peak 60 lakh people used to travel in buses (DTC and bluelines) but I guess it reduced slightly after metro expanded. But metro's share at 11 lakh is still much smaller than buses.

aren't we talking about only one operator ie. mumbai local?

That's not one operator. WR and CR operate independently even though they are under one parent organisation.

BTW no. of operators do not matter. It's the total number of people which commute matters. We were talking about which city has more commuters and not which operator carries more commuters. Apart from the already mentioned cities, I guess Berlin (U-bahn and S-bahn) also carries more commuters though not sure.

Most of the people in Mumbai travel in trains, while in Delhi most of the people (still) travel in buses. At peak 60 lakh people used to travel in buses (DTC and bluelines) but I guess it reduced slightly after metro expanded. But metro's share at 11 lakh is still much smaller than buses.



That's not one operator. WR and CR operate independently even though they are under one parent organisation.

BTW no. of operators do not matter. It's the total number of people which commute matters. We were talking about which city has more commuters and not which operator carries more commuters. Apart from the already mentioned cities, I guess Berlin (U-bahn and S-bahn) also carries more commuters though not sure.

on the issue of commuters,

a big chunk of people on the train dont travel with tickets. ie they just arrive at the platform and get on the train and get off at their destination. The number of journeys and commuters are partly based and calculated/estimated on the amount of tickets which are issued.

but in the case of mumbai the actual number of commuters are grossly under calculated and is very hard to estimate considering that actual number of commuters far exceeds the capacity of train.In places like tokyo russia etc there are i assume barriers through which people cant pass unless they have a ticket.

My own estimates based on my own travels on the system would say about 8-9 million people are carried by Mumbai suburban. The TC does not even bother to check second class. Just checked first. Again thats more of a stab in the dark rather than scientific analysis.

PS I think max capacity of Mumbai suburban system is about 4 million people.

Most of the people in Mumbai travel in trains, while in Delhi most of the people (still) travel in buses. At peak 60 lakh people used to travel in buses (DTC and bluelines) but I guess it reduced slightly after metro expanded. But metro's share at 11 lakh is still much smaller than buses.

"As of 2009, the BEST runs a total of 4,013 buses,[10] ferrying 4.8 million passengers[11] over 365 routes, and has a workforce strength of 38,000, which includes 22,000 bus drivers and conductors (this comes to an average of 11.2 employees per bus)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BEST_Bus

this does not include other bus services in the MMR of course

ferrying 4.8 million passengers[11]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BEST_Bus

this does not include other bus services in the MMR of course

off course like TMT, NMMT, KDMT n many more....:)
also there are private buses,,,,plying from seepz/andheri towards thane/borivili.... who takes some ~900 - 1500 for monthly pass, one of my friend uses that to travel between seepz to thane.

well the figure 4.8 million is as of 2007, the figure myself updated on wiki, as per source which say that article is published on 2007, so it may be 2006 or 2007 figure. If anyone has latest source/reference please let me know.

on the issue of commuters,

a big chunk of people on the train dont travel with tickets. ie they just arrive at the platform and get on the train and get off at their destination. The number of journeys and commuters are partly based and calculated/estimated on the amount of tickets which are issued.

but in the case of mumbai the actual number of commuters are grossly under calculated and is very hard to estimate considering that actual number of commuters far exceeds the capacity of train.In places like tokyo russia etc there are i assume barriers through which people cant pass unless they have a ticket.

My own estimates based on my own travels on the system would say about 8-9 million people are carried by Mumbai suburban. The TC does not even bother to check second class. Just checked first. Again thats more of a stab in the dark rather than scientific analysis.

PS I think max capacity of Mumbai suburban system is about 4 million people.

+1,,,,,, like Delhi metro....u cant travel without ticket....:) so you have accurate figures, but in Mumbai local, i would save 20-30 people don't buy ticket, i m not saying they don't have money to buys but sometime in hurry, long queue etc,

+1,,,,,, like Delhi metro....u cant travel without ticket....:) so you have accurate figures, but in Mumbai local, i would save 20-30 people don't buy ticket, i m not saying they don't have money to buys but sometime in hurry, long queue etc,

some people are also cheap bastards

some dont have the money.....

BTW no. of operators do not matter. It's the total number of people which commute matters. We were talking about which city has more commuters and not which operator carries more commuters. Apart from the already mentioned cities, I guess Berlin (U-bahn and S-bahn) also carries more commuters though not sure.

All the cities eg Tokyo has lot of Metro and Local Train Lines. Commuter Load is shared by these lines that's why the Density is not as high. Mumbai Local has very few Lines about 5 only (Churchgate to Borivilli/Virar), (CST to Thane/Kalyan/Ambernath/Karjat/Kasara), (CST to Panvel) , (Thane- Vashi/Panvel), (Goregaon to Panvel).
And this is where the problem is.
Even though there are multiple tracks/line the density is very high. There is a train every 3 min i Guess on every track/platform. And with multiple Platform you can get train to same destination in less than 3 mins. Unless more tracks are added and there are 15-18 coaches/Subarban-train, the density is not going to come down. Also there is no space left to add more platforms unless there are built above the existing ones. A Dense Metro/Monorail network will also help to some extent but it will take time to buiit.

All the cities eg Tokyo has lot of Metro and Local Train Lines. Commuter Load is shared by these lines that's why the Density is not as high. Mumbai Local has very few Lines about 5 only (Churchgate to Borivilli/Virar), (CST to Thane/Kalyan/Ambernath/Karjat/Kasara), (CST to Panvel) , (Thane- Vashi/Panvel), (Goregaon to Panvel).
And this is where the problem is.
Even though there are multiple tracks/line the density is very high. There is a train every 3 min i Guess on every track/platform. And with multiple Platform you can get train to same destination in less than 3 mins. Unless more tracks are added and there are 15-18 coaches/Subarban-train, the density is not going to come down. Also there is no space left to add more platforms unless there are built above the existing ones. A Dense Metro/Monorail network will also help to some extent but it will take time to buiit.

dude if the network was in the hand of professionals and not IR we would have a train every minute in rush hour with 15 coach trains as standard.That would have met demand. Not saying it would be comfortable. But just 100% full than super dense crush load.

From what i know there are 8 tracks on the western side. and there will be 6 tracks on the eastern side. into CST/churchgate.The biggest issue for frequency is poor outdated signalling equipment and poor quality of tracks.

Source (http://www.indianexpress.com/news/smart-trains-on-way-so-govt-asks-rlys-to-crack-down-on-spitting/630303/0)
Mumbai: The railways does not have a rule that specifies spitting as an offence; the state government wants that to change before the arrival of the swanky new trains under the Mumbai Urban Transport Project (MUTP).

The railways spends crores in cleaning trains and stations stained by spitting.

Maharashtra govt last year had Banned Gutkha production but the Gutkha companies moved to High court and there was a stay on the order to Ban Gutkha. Nothing has happened till now. Unless the Gutkha is completely banned the problem is not going to be solved. These Gutkha chewing people cannot see any thing clean and good around them. They spit Gutkha all over the new Rakes and bring it down to their own standard so that they can travel in it.
We are lucky that there is no spitting inside the train (corners or near the doors etc else it would be immpossible standing near the doors.)

They should have Smooth paint on the Subarban Rakes just like Metro so that it can be easily washed away and no stains are left.
I am sure same will happen to Metro once operational, and they are White in color :lol:, but then cleaning the Metro will be lot more easy due to smooth paint on the metro rakes.

Is there a same Problem in Delhi/ Kolkata Metro or Subarban stations and Railways? Can anyone comment ?

Is there a same Problem in Delhi/ Kolkata Metro or Subarban stations and Railways? Can anyone comment ?

Yes we face the same problems on Suburban Trains and Railways in Delhi and Kolkata as well but not on metros. This may indicate that if your neighbourhood is clean like what is in Metro in Kolkata and Delhi then you will try to keep it clean by not spitting but if your surronding is dirty then you may not care about it . Indian railway should try to keep itself clean then people will automatically start keeping it clean.

The number of commuters for Moscow at 9 Million is simply unbeliveable considering Moscow Metropolitan Populatiton is 12 Million.It would mean 3 out of 4 Moscowites travel by Metro everyday!!!!! (Including Children and the very old).
Compare that to Mumbai having 6.8 Million commuters for a population of nearly 19 Million.

the moscow network is much more extensive than the bombay one. besides ticketless travel bombay also has 5 million travelling by bus. over 90% of daily travel is by public transport in the city (locals, BEST, taxis, ricks, etc)

the moscow network is much more extensive than the bombay one. besides ticketless travel bombay also has 5 million travelling by bus. over 90% of daily travel is by public transport in the city (locals, BEST, taxis, ricks, etc)

hmm many people though travel by a mixture of bus and train.


I think the total number of travellers using any kind of public transport needs to be estimated.

^^ mmrda website says..... over 88% of Mumbai public uses public transportation.

http://www.mmrdamumbai.org/projects_mutp.htm

BB@ moscow metro is 298km

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_Metro

also as ichi said...some are cheap bastard dont buy tickets which makes counting/estimate very tough to make.

interesting they have upload new rake inside view
cc mmrda
http://i49.************/300qn3d.jpg

source
http://www.mmrdamumbai.org/projects_mutp.htm

must say not bad not bad at all, interior looks quite sleek.

nice find Kuwar.

hmmm hope they keep same as shown on website, atleast more space like metro :)

The number of commuters for Moscow at 9 Million is simply unbeliveable considering Moscow Metropolitan Populatiton is 12 Million.It would mean 3 out of 4 Moscowites travel by Metro everyday!!!!! (Including Children and the very old).
Compare that to Mumbai having 6.8 Million commuters for a population of nearly 19 Million.

really, hows possible? nice question.... out 12 million 9 million traveling...:lol:
if we take same ratio(75%) with Mumbai population then it would be 14-15 million traveling in public transport.

really, hows possible? nice question.... out 12 million 9 million traveling...:lol:
if we take same ratio(75%) with Mumbai population then it would be 14-15 million traveling in public transport.

hmm many people might be walking or cycling to work. I see a lot of people cycling to work in the morning. People in the informal sector like small shops food stalls etc and a certain amount of people live in the same area they work in.I do believe that in the next 10 years Mumbai is going to see an explosion of low maintenance electric bicycle which chug along at 25 km per hour. Not even public transport can compete with that. Might actually bring down numbers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle


Similarly if you notice travelling patterns. The number of commuters on Mumbai's public transport are the highest in the peak of the rain. Cause many people leave their two wheelers (which would be soaking wet in the winter) to travel by bus or train.

^^ wow nice,,, great to know about e-bicycle :)

"As of 2009, the BEST runs a total of 4,013 buses,[10] ferrying 4.8 million passengers[11] over 365 routes, and has a workforce strength of 38,000, which includes 22,000 bus drivers and conductors (this comes to an average of 11.2 employees per bus)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BEST_Bus

this does not include other bus services in the MMR of course

The number which I mentioned was also for only Delhi's buses (4000 odd DTC buses and 4000 odd bluelines). UP roadways and Haryana roadways operate local buses to Delhi from Gurgaon, Faridabad, Noida, Greater Noida and Ghaziabad.

dude if the network was in the hand of professionals and not IR we would have a train every minute in rush hour with 15 coach trains as standard.That would have met demand. Not saying it would be comfortable. But just 100% full than super dense crush load.

+1.

The number of commuters for Moscow at 9 Million is simply unbeliveable considering Moscow Metropolitan Populatiton is 12 Million.It would mean 3 out of 4 Moscowites travel by Metro everyday!!!!! (Including Children and the very old).
Compare that to Mumbai having 6.8 Million commuters for a population of nearly 19 Million.

Dear, 9 million commuters does not means 9 million people. It means 9 million trips. If all commuters took two trips daily (up and down), then it means 4.5 million people used subway. Similarly for Mumbai, it will be 3.5 million people using locals if all of them used local for return journey too.

Dear, 9 million commuters does not means 9 million people. It means 9 million trips. If all commuters took two trips daily (up and down), then it means 4.5 million people used subway. Similarly for Mumbai, it will be 3.5 million people using locals if all of them used local for return journey too.[/QUOTE]

One of the Point of High Ridership may also be that avg traveller may have to change more no of trains to get to destination. Say to get to the destination 20-25 Kms away, I probably have to change 3-4 trains. This may be the reason considering large no of network. Multiply that by 2 ways. In Mumbai for most people its just 1 train. Fer few it may be 2 trains but not more. In that way you might have higher ridership in Mumbai if we go by your logic, even though actually more people travel.
But from the reports I have read its 7 million people(and not rides) use local daily but not so sure what it actually means.

Dear, 9 million commuters does not means 9 million people. It means 9 million trips. If all commuters took two trips daily (up and down), then it means 4.5 million people used subway. Similarly for Mumbai, it will be 3.5 million people using locals if all of them used local for return journey too.

Also most of daily travelers are not buying tickets everyday......they has month/quarterly/yearly PASS.... so count wont affect this way.....certainly they will count one even he changes 2 lines... even if he travels 10 times a day....it will be counted as 1 only......

One of the Point of High Ridership may also be that avg traveller may have to change more no of trains to get to destination. Say to get to the destination 20-25 Kms away, I probably have to change 3-4 trains. This may be the reason considering large no of network. Multiply that by 2 ways. In Mumbai for most people its just 1 train. Fer few it may be 2 trains but not more. In that way you might have higher ridership in Mumbai if we go by your logic, even though actually more people travel.
But from the reports I have read its 7 million people(and not rides) use local daily but not so sure what it actually means.

Those people who change trains/lines are counted as a single passenger, at least in Delhi metro and I believe other places also since you buy a ticket only once and only once you pass through the entry and exit gates. So it does not matters whether you travel on 1 line or 5 lines in a single journey.

Also most of daily travelers are not buying tickets everyday......they has month/quarterly/yearly PASS.... so count wont affect this way.....certainly they will count one even he changes 2 lines... even if he travels 10 times a day....it will be counted as 1 only......

I don't think a pass holder will travel more than twice on most of the days (at least on weekdays)

I don't think a pass holder will travel more than twice on most of the days (at least on weekdays)

People working on the ground (having on field jobs) like Sales & Marketing guys , business men , Reporters , Doodhwalas, dabbawalas etc commute more than twice and this is a very common in Mumbai.

People working on the ground (having on field jobs) like Sales & Marketing guys , business men , Reporters , Doodhwalas, dabbawalas etc commute more than twice and this is a very common in Mumbai.

very true... also document pickup guys,,,,courier guys basically all field job u imagine......its not only twice but many times........ its very common practice in Mumbai,,,passes are cheaper(get discount) compare to tickets and travel as many times as u want....no restrictions...although its good for common people but it contributes to more crowd....:(

Tokyo's suburban rail network is damn huge (some 396 stations over 14 lines) and messy. I dont know how the people there understand that. See this

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/5594/409671uo.jpg

People here catch an Andheri train from CSTM if they want to go to Kurla, nd then ask people at Bandra why still Kurla hasnt come. During my daily commuting on harbour line i find atleast one such person in 2 days. They even get 'lost in the corwd' when we tell anyone coming from C.R. to our home, to change platforms at Dadar and catch a slow local from pf 1 of WR. Instead they catch a slow local from C.R. and call us and ask now we have arrived at Ghatkopar when will andheri come... Imagine if such a crowd gets a gift of tokyos rail network. The upcoming metrorail and monorail would be a strict no-no for such commuters.

Mumbai's suburban network is nowhere close to the tokyo network .. Mumbai's has only 6 lines (WR,CR, harbour, Thane vashi, diva roha, Vasai-diva) (the latter 2 not being suburban service) with close to 100 stations. But the actual figures are much higher than the counted figures. This is because almost 40% of Mumbais people dont buy a ticket. A TC's duty is from 7 am to 8 pm (2 shifts) but 4am-7am and 8pm-2am the people can happily travel without a ticket and usually people with huge families travel in the night if you see... they are ticketless. So figures for Mumbai would be atleast 1 million more than given.

ICF coaches have many problems. in 1 coach ull find atleast 1 wheel which is a flatwheel (meaning makes dhinchak-dhinchak noise as train runs..) They initially claimed that the rakes would be of stainless steel, but you can see rust all over. The top is rusted, so is sides, luggage rack and the likes. The stainless steel wallpaper of the top (Yes, its a wallpaper and not sheet) has started peeling off and PVC roofing is visible now. Over this PVC roofing they have put GI sheets and put anti corrosive layer, which peeled off during the last monsoon and now GI sheets are exposed. Very soon dont be surprised if you see water dripping off.

The 3xx coaches manufactred by Siemens (AC-DC ones, cream and deep blue colour original) (now they have painted it in ugliest MRVC livery) which makes noise like F1 racing cars plying in central railway make a good job! They are hell better than the MRVC rakes.

Nice post Anuj!

While Mumbai's suburban rail is simplistic, people in general are not used to reading maps in India. There is more of a culture of ask the next person you see and just following the crowd kinda thing.

Additionally, unless one is a regular commuter, he/she would have trouble deciphering the initials for different platforms (Bandra/Borivili), Kalyan/Karjat/Kasara etc....

In addition, new commuters might have difficulty with the standard stops of fast trains.

A solution to this problem can begin by the following:

1. Putting a detailed map of the system in every station (the ones they had on the ticket validation machines somehow didn't cut it for me)

2. Giving a particular colour to each line rather than calling it western/harbour/main line etc. Indicate station changes for different lines clearly (dadar, wadala, etc)

3. More signage and better platform indicators

4. Announcements in trains. The new RAKEs announce the next station. This could be enhanced by giving the list of stations periodically

It won't solve the problem but bring about a more 'map friendly' culture.

Once the metro/monorail routes are operations, they should integrate those as well in the map. In fact there should be one standard transportation map available at all transit points (the kind they have in london)

^more than that Mumbai suburban has poor east-west connectivity.


that should be addressed by the metro lines from ghatkopar to andheri

Bandra to kurla via bkc

and hopefully sewri to Prabhadevi

as things stand everything has to be changed at Dadar which is putting a big big load on the station. I think with opening of mumbai metro 1 line we should see passengers at Dadar decline.


Plus maybe they need to make a stop at matunga ish on the harbour line to integrate with CR going on the CST andheri route

Plus maybe they need to make a stop at matunga ish on the harbour line to integrate with CR going on the CST andheri route

That area already has 3 stations (one of each line) in close proximity. The best you can do is build an interconnecting walkway of some sort.

Additionally, unless one is a regular commuter, he/she would have trouble deciphering the initials for different platforms (Bandra/Borivili), Kalyan/Karjat/Kasara etc....

In addition, new commuters might have difficulty with the standard stops of fast trains.

A solution to this problem can begin by the following:

1. Putting a detailed map of the system in every station (the ones they had on the ticket validation machines somehow didn't cut it for me)

2. Giving a particular colour to each line rather than calling it western/harbour/main line etc. Indicate station changes for different lines clearly (dadar, wadala, etc)

3. More signage and better platform indicators

4. Announcements in trains. The new RAKEs announce the next station. This could be enhanced by giving the list of stations periodically

It won't solve the problem but bring about a more 'map friendly' culture.


Once the metro/monorail routes are operations, they should integrate those as well in the map. In fact there should be one standard transportation map available at all transit points (the kind they have in london)


The solutions as follows:
1. Putting in of Mumbai suburban railway maps in ALL local trains and enshuring that they are not getting covered by Bangali baba's advertisements. The maps should be of Banner-type of say 2 by 3 ft in between the door and seats (facing towards the seats) and should be lit.

2. They (maps) should also include the under construction metro lines in grey and completed lines in color (blue,red,violet etc)

3. WR CR and harbour railway should also follow the 'colored lines' system.

4. I dont know whether MUTP1,2,3,x achieves this, but outstation train tracks should have NO RELATION to suburban railway network. 2 lines should be totally dedicated for outstation trains right from BCT to VR and CSTM to KYN (or ABH if possible).

5. ACfications to be brought to bandra terminus (BDTS) thru pf no 8 and 9 of andheri turning AC so you can expect the posh white and red WAP5 and WAP7 bringing in trains like paschim, yuva exp, duranto and garib rath to BDTS with improved speed.

6. So should be 5th and 6th line between Thane and Kurla (or LTT) be AC'fied. I know this is too difficult considering the mess at KYN.

7. Rather than starting Virar-Panvel DMU via diva-roha line, it should be started via Andheri-Wadala-vashi-nerul. This would bring in more profit because there are several commuters in western region who commute to Navi mumbai or vice versa.

8. On announcements in local trains, NEXT STATION is mentioned, at same time, EXIT TO THE LEFT /RIGHT of direction of train should also be mentioned.

9. Track upgradation for Vasai-Diva-Panvel line: now it takes 2 hours for 70 odd kilometres, with trains like trivendrum Rajdhani, pune duranto, dozen of superfasts and 2 dozen other trains use the line along with a freighter to JNPT every half an hr, the tracks can be well covered within 1 hour 10 mins.

Plus maybe they need to make a stop at matunga ish on the harbour line to integrate with CR going on the CST andheri route

I come to know what you are saying. the situation is this way: it is a + intersection with harbour line elecated running E-W above CR line(N-S) and mahim to west, kings circle to east, and on CR line matunga to south and sion to north. no station is within 1 km of vicinity of that intersection. harbour line already has a PSR of 40 kmph on that route and it just accelerates after crossing the muck at Mahim at that intersection. Making it again stop will be a hell. People can get down at Kings circle station and catch a bus- Sion is 3 stops away, matunga s 15 mins walking distance.

If u need an intersection of harbour with CR, you have the most beautiful station in the world for that purpose- Kurla. There are 12 Andheri-Panvel trains in a day which go to wadala from andheri, reverse and go to panvel via kurla. and Andheri-Kurla is done in 40 mins which is quite better than taking double decker 332 bus and wasting 1 hour in sakinaka traffic.

Plus maybe they need to make a stop at matunga ish on the harbour line to integrate with CR going on the CST andheri route

When did the Harbour Line extend to include Matunga?

Cheers :cheers:

Mumbai's suburban network is nowhere close to the tokyo network ..

I dont know about tokyo's suburban network but as per mvrc/indianrail website...the total system/track length of mumbai local is more than 790km

here is some text/image from PDF

Laying of 88 Kms of additional tracks excluding loop lines and yards (existing 790 Kms, 93 Kms added in MUTP Phase I and 22 Kms in Diva-Kalyan section being added by CR).

cc mrvc.indianrail.gov.in

http://i50.************/4fx2cw.jpg

source
http://www.mrvc.indianrail.gov.in/tenderphp/eoi_uploaded_tender/Engineering/MRVC%20Phase%20II%20background%20material.pdf

That area already has 3 stations (one of each line) in close proximity. The best you can do is build an interconnecting walkway of some sort.

hmm you still need a platform for people to get down no? train to stop etc

and yes you would have to build a track way or skywalk like structure to connect it to Matunga in the east and Matunga road in the westW which from what google maps tells me is 500m-600m away.


@anuj

the main harbour line from my limited travels on it has three routes.

1. CST to Andheri (master plan to extend to Borivali, they are extending to goregaon as we speak)

2. CST to Panvel via Kurla

3. Andheri to Panvel when the train changes track at Wadala road.

*not sure about the third one though at all.



There are three major points of change used on the Harbour line

(a) Wadala Road

(b) Kurla

(c) hmm Vashi as well for those wanting to goto places like Kopakhairne etc but we wont get into that.



Now to answer the first one anuj's posts. If the passengers would have known the harbour line map they would have got on the CST to Andheri line train and then changed trains at Wadala road to catch a CST to Panvel train or an Andheri to Vashi/Nerul/Panvel train and reached their destination at Kurla.

or

they could have got onto a direct CST to Panvel/Nerul/Vashi train wherever the terminus is in Navi mumbai to get to their destination of Kurla.


What an interchange near Matunga does is three things

People commuting on the central line who want to get to Bandra dont have to goto Dadar to change trains and can simply get off at Matunga and walk to the intersection station via the skywalk and catch their train to Bandra Andheri etc. This is reduce the big load on Dadar which needs respite despite the metro.

This works vice versa for the people in the western brubs wanting to get to the eastern brubs.

An intersection and skywalk to matunga road means people wanting to get to say Churchgate dont have to get down at Kurla, catch the train to Dadar and change trains again.


What effectively you are doing is providing the entire network with another outlet apart from Dadar thus reducing the load in Dadar itself which is way over crowded.

It will have a similar effect for Kurla which from what i could tell is probably the worst big station on the network. Geez it was crowded upto the point where people did not have place to stand on the platform.

Mumbai suburban needs more intersections not less.

and on the issue of people not knowing the route line.

From what i know there is an announcement of the final destination of the train. like say

"Platform cramank ek var yennari dhimi local Andheri hun Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus la janari local aaahe"

(this slow train goes from andheri to CST from platform 1)

and that announcement is repeated in Hindi and english. Sometimes yes the loudspeaker quality is crap so the voice cracks up. They can change the quality of loud speaker


Many big stations especially CST also have LCD screens/ big screens to inform people of the starting point destination and major stations etc where the train calls.


Now if the people cant read or dont know basic english marathi or hindi then yes there will be issues. But you cant expect the network to display 23 official languages.

there are also signs everywhere in Devnagri(both hindi and marathi speakers can read) and English for others.

i dont normally change at dadar, but whenevr I do, its quite confusing on the CR side...half of the times the displays dont work properly, or change when the next train has already arrived. same for the passenger announcement systems.

yes...the loudspeakers are really crap, esp. on CR. somehow i find the WR lady announcer sweet (i mean the voice!). i mean its a bubbly voice (...baraha dabbyanchi churchgate karita jalad local aahe..). compare that with the lazy disinterested CR announcer (...asangaaon la zanari jalad local aahe...hi local mulund la thamaar kimva dombivali la, tyachi zavabdari amchi nahi), no offense to CR ..lol...

(...asangaaon la zanari jalad local aahe...hi local mulund la thamaar kimva dombivali la, tyachi zavabdari amchi nahi), no offense to CR ..lol...
let me repeat in english "Its not responsibility of CR that it will halt at mulund or dombivili"

well i it was joke.....by rohan ......:lol::lol:

^^ mmrda website says..... over 88% of Mumbai public uses public transportation.

http://www.mmrdamumbai.org/projects_mutp.htm

BB@ moscow metro is 298km



88% just in buses and trains! I doubt that. I am scared that just 12% of commuters cause such huge traffic snarls.

My guess is 60-70% in buses and trains alone with short 1 km trips in taxis and ricks.30-40% would be private transport (includes taxis and ricks)

I will tell now how mumbai's commuter traffic flows, for changed routes.

W= western suburbs= virar to badra
E=eastern suburbs= KYN to Dadar
WM: western suburbs in Mumbai (DDR to CCG)
CM: central line in mumbai (dadar-CSTM)
NM: navi mumbai (tilaknagar onwards to panvel
FC: far central (Vitthalwadi onwards to khopoli/shahad onwards to kasara)
TN: thane-navi mumbai area (thane-vashi line and till nerul say)

*W to E: dadar strictly. you can reach within 45 mins and nothing beats that.
*E-WM: change at elphistone road=parel. these people avoid dadar, rather catch a CST slow local and get down at Parel. then go by connector to elphistone road and catch CCG slow. such a pass is also available (but a ticket is not available that way) i.e. say mulund to mahalaxmi via Parel.
*For E people whose office is near CCG they prefer CST fast and taxi/bus henceforth.
*E-W: same as 1st case, people also prefer gettig down at GC or CLA to catch 340 (to ADH for SEEPZ/MIDC public) or 332 (CLA-ADH), 310 (for BKC public) and 315 (for airport and santacruz). journey takes 45 mins for CLA-ADH, 30 mins for CLA-BA, and 30 mins for CLA-STC by these bsues.
* W-NM: 2 options: either do DDR-CLA-harbour; or ADH fast and catch Panvel local from ADH. the second one is becoming popular, though its slower, its safe and peaceful.
* NM-W: they come to CLA and catch 332/310/315 as said earlier. they avoid going to dadar.
* W-TN: they catch NMMT volvo service it takes 1 hr 15 mins. this goes to bandra, andheri and borivali from airoli bridge.
If they want train, they do vashi-vadala-andheri. but avoid thane-dadar-andheri.

*FC-W: they do via dadar.

Then why is an intersection needed where you say. If a station is made, it wil be called DHARAVI with upper dharavi and lower dharavi like kopar station. And kings circle is just 1 min away by train. plus no space on CR tracks for even 5th and 6th lines then where will they build platforms!. and what about hundreds of hutments lining harbour line here? Even the jurisdiction is different upto Mahim km 11/40 its done by WR and trhen by CR.

I dont know about tokyo's suburban network but as per mvrc/indianrail website...the total system/track length of mumbai local is more than 790km

here is some text/image from PDF

Laying of 88 Kms of additional tracks excluding loop lines and yards (existing 790 Kms, 93 Kms added in MUTP Phase I and 22 Kms in Diva-Kalyan section being added by CR).

They are counting the total length of the tracks but only line length should be used. Because it's only line/route length which matters to a commuter. If you build a small 10 km line with 10 parallel tracks, it won't be effective for people but a 50 km line with 2 tracks will be effective.

I think they have used track length only for technical purpose.

88% just in buses and trains! I doubt that. I am scared that just 12% of commuters cause such huge traffic snarls.

This is true. Don't forget that the 88% of the people travel tightly packed, thus requiring very less number of vehicles (rail cars or buses), while 12% people travel alone or a pair per vehicle, which adds to the volumes.

Even in Delhi the number of people using public transport is 70%, despite of having more than 60 lakh vehicles in the main city and more than 1.1 crore vehicles in NCR.

Cities like NY, London etc also have very high usage of public transport. For example London has 400 km of metro and 8000 buses and hundreds of km of suburban rail for only 80 lakh residents.

I still feel that it is exaggerated.

Considering 1.8 crore population in BMC area, max 50% (90 lakhs) would be commuting through motorised vehicles (leave housewifes, bicycle, pedestrians, in fact slum people live close to their work place that they would not use any transporation).

Out of these, only 12% (~10 lakhs) commute by private transport! Even if we consider if each one of these travel by separate vehicle, maximum of 10 lakh vehicle should be on roads in Bombay at any point of time. But there are some junctions in western suburbs, which sees a traffic of 2 lakh vehicles per hour (during peak hours). And there are not many reasons for people from central suburbs / island city to get into western suburbs.

I really dont know if I have gone wrong somewhere.

^^ Itz 50000 -60000 vehicles per hour. But still all the other assumptions are pretty much liberal. Not all the people travel at the same time.

^^ 50,000-60,000 is also unrealistic. ITO crossing in Delhi is considered to be the busiest crossing in India and some years back it handled 24,000 vehicles per hour in peak hours. I have never heard of any other crossing handling more than 20,000 vehicles per hour in Delhi, even though it has more vehicles than any other city of the world. Either your figure is wrong or the figures is total for all peak hours and not per hour.

Another example is Mumbai-Pune expressway. I read that it is used by 30,000 vehicles everyday few years back and its capacity is 100,000 vehicles per day. So 50,000 vehicles on a single crossing is unrealistic.

Also a vehicle crosses many crossings in its way so it will obviously be registered many times at multiple crossings. So you cannot just multiply the number of vehicles passing through 1 crossing by the number of crossings.

They are counting the total length of the tracks but only line length should be used. Because it's only line/route length which matters to a commuter. If you build a small 10 km line with 10 parallel tracks, it won't be effective for people but a 50 km line with 2 tracks will be effective.

I think they have used track length only for technical purpose.


hmm lets count then

Churchgate to dahanu road = 123 km western line

Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus (CST) to Kalyan = 54 km central line

Kalyan to Kasara = 67 km Central line

Kalyan to Khopoli = 61 km Central line

Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus (CST) to Panvel = 49 km Harbour Line

Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus (CST) to Andheri ~20 km(please correct me) Harbour Line

Thane to Vashi = 18.5 km Harbour Line

Diva to Vasai road = ~35 km


so total is ~427.5 km
please correct me if i m wrong :)

Mumbai: On the face of it, it appears that ticket-less travel on the suburban line has increased manifold over the past five years. Figures from both the railways, available with TOI, show that on the more expansive Central Railway (CR), which caters to around 35 lakh commuters a day, the numbers have nearly doubled in the past half decade. There has been a growth of 88% in commuters who travel without tickets.
Its counterpart Western Railway (WR), which incidentally carries around 33 lakh fewer commuters a day compared with CR, also reports a much lower incidence of ticketless travelling. In the past five years, there has been a 48.6% rise in their number.
But, there is more to these figures than what meet the eye. Central Railway (CR) officials told TOI that intensive ticket-checking drives have helped a higher detection rate of ticket-less travellers and, in turn, increased ticket sales.
“The cases may have increased, but this doesn’t mean that more people are now traveling without tickets. Since our drives are more intensive now, the window sale of tickets has gone up as we are closing in on people who think they can get away with it,” said a railway official. On CR, he added, the sales of tickets through ATVMs have more than doubled in the past one year. The drives have been very effective, he said.
Besides, with newer faster ways of ticketing available such as coupons (coupon validating machines), ATVMs and Go Mumbai cards, “There should be no reason why commuters should make any excuses.’’
The common excuses given by commuters once in the red, said chief PRO, CR, S C Mudgerikar, is that they were in a hurry and so didn’t buy a ticket or forgot to carry their pass or that they overslept and missed their destination. “When a person travels beyond a station, his ticket is valid for he is considered ticketless for that stretch. “Many offenders also said that queues were very long.”
Meanwhile, the railways rake in crores every year. In 2009-10, CR fines crossed Rs 16 crore while WR’s Rs 5 crore. Offenders have to pay Rs 250 plus the difference of the travel cost.

^^ 50,000-60,000 is also unrealistic. ITO crossing in Delhi is considered to be the busiest crossing in India and some years back it handled 24,000 vehicles per hour in peak hours. I have never heard of any other crossing handling more than 20,000 vehicles per hour in Delhi, even though it has more vehicles than any other city of the world. Either your figure is wrong or the figures is total for all peak hours and not per hour.

Another example is Mumbai-Pune expressway. I read that it is used by 30,000 vehicles everyday few years back and its capacity is 100,000 vehicles per day. So 50,000 vehicles on a single crossing is unrealistic.

Also a vehicle crosses many crossings in its way so it will obviously be registered many times at multiple crossings. So you cannot just multiply the number of vehicles passing through 1 crossing by the number of crossings.

BWSL has about 8000 cars per hour (just cars).

http://www.mesn.org/mumbai%20traffic%20stats.html

North South roads of western suburbs see high vehicular traffic than any road in island city. You can see the stats for BWSL in that link.

Delhi example does not work here. In Mumbai, atleast 4 out of 10 vehicles on road is taxis/ricks.

And as per World bank 5% commuters use car in mumbai. Add taxis/ rick/ two wheelers.

http://www.indiatogether.org/2009/jul/eco-sealink.htm

Those people who change trains/lines are counted as a single passenger, at least in Delhi metro and I believe other places also since you buy a ticket only once and only once you pass through the entry and exit gates. So it does not matters whether you travel on 1 line or 5 lines in a single journey.
I don't think a pass holder will travel more than twice on most of the days (at least on weekdays)

In Newyork Subway you have 1 day, 7 day monthly pass. you can travel unlimited all of the subway. Now I will be changing multiple stations and swap the pass each time you enter the station. In that way they count the riderships. And I guess most western Metro system count the ridership and not the no of people actually travelling. Any ways there should be more number of People than 7 million using Mumbai Suburban railways each ways and not 2 ways combined because they always mention this many people(and not the riderships) travel in local daily in Mumbai.

hmm lets count then

Churchgate to dahanu road = 123 km western line

Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus (CST) to Kalyan = 54 km central line

Kalyan to Kasara = 67 km Central line

Kalyan to Khopoli = 61 km Central line

Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus (CST) to Panvel = 49 km Harbour Line

Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus (CST) to Andheri ~20 km(please correct me) Harbour Line

Thane to Vashi = 18.5 km Harbour Line

Diva to Vasai road = ~35 km

so total is ~427.5 km
please correct me if i m wrong :)

There are more lines.
1) CST to Panvel -> I do not know the distance but should be atleast 60 KMS
2) Vasai Road- Dombivalli-Panvel-> I guess this is quiet a long route may be 80 kms atleast.
3) Sanpada to Uran -> i do not know the distance (25 kms ) wild guess.

The distance are just a guess and not the exact.
Here is the Source with complete network. ->

http://www.urbanrail.net/as/mumb/mumbai.htm

Thus the network would be 427 + 200 (approx) i.e 625 KMS approx.
And if you multiply the tracks the network will be well over 2000 kms.

^
sanpada to Uran dont think is operational

plus what many of you are forgetting is that many of these lines have 5-6 tracks.

for eg there are 3 tracks from the Thane to CST line

http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report_it-s-official-cadbury-junction-is-the-busiest_1373383

The latest traffic volume survey conducted by the Brihanmumbai Municipal Corporation (BMC) shows that peak hour peak direction (phpd) traffic is the highest at the Pedder road junction. Phpd is a yardstick for transport experts to compare traffic flow across junctions.

The phpd count at Pedder road for north-bound traffic from Gopalrao Deshmukh (GD) Marg, the most used arm of the junction, between 5.45pm and 6.45pm was 5,379.

BWSL has about 8000 cars per hour (just cars).

http://www.mesn.org/mumbai%20traffic%20stats.html



If we go by the figures in the URL then as on March 2008 MMR has 1 Million Cars, 1 L Taxies and 25,750 Buses. This is too Huge.
This should include Private Buses as well but how many can be Private Buses? It can be Max 2-3 K or max 5K. There are ofcourse state Buses which travels across Manarashtra/India cannot be counted under Mumbai. Remaning will be BEST/NMMT/TMT/KDMT/UMT/MBMT etc but the Figure 20K Buses still looks too huge. By this way MMR should easily have most no of buses in the Country:cheers:, if the figures are believed to be true. The source also looks like a Govt source so difficult to deny the figures also :ohno: DO any one have more idea ?

^

plus what many of you are forgetting is that many of these lines have 5-6 tracks.


I considered it thats why mentioned Total length of Network(approx 625 KM) X Avg No of tracks/line = 4 (though there are 6-8 tracks at many places) the network is well over 2000 KMS.

^^ yes we should not doubt on the figures simply because they dont count bus by bus they count as per registration numbers....so this way its almost perfect numbers
so MMR has 25750 buses....thats hugs...n should be....as people mostly uses public transport in mmr like i said earlier its more than 88% :)

well so MMR has 3.5 million total vehicles....still not near to delhi(NCR) i think it has more than 6 million vehicles...

well also mumbai has 1.7 million cars

http://www.hindustantimes.com/City-taxis-head-to-Thane-Navi-Mumbai-for-point-to-point-rides/Article1-541548.aspx

bombay's ratio of cars is higher than in most cities. not many people use bikes (in comparison) thanks to public transport

out of new registrations cars are only 30% less than 2-wheelers

If we go by the figures in the URL then as on March 2008 MMR has 1 Million Cars, 1 L Taxies and 25,750 Buses. This is too Huge.

That's not huge for a metropolis of 19 million, thanks to high usage of public transport.


well so MMR has 3.5 million total vehicles....still not near to delhi(NCR) i think it has more than 6 million vehicles...

well also mumbai has 1.7 million cars

NCR had 11.2 million vehicles in 2007. Delhi currently has around 6.4 million vehicles.

hmm lets count then

Churchgate to dahanu road = 123 km western line

Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus (CST) to Kalyan = 54 km central line

Kalyan to Kasara = 67 km Central line

Kalyan to Khopoli = 61 km Central line

Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus (CST) to Panvel = 49 km Harbour Line

Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus (CST) to Andheri ~20 km(please correct me) Harbour Line

Thane to Vashi = 18.5 km Harbour Line

Diva to Vasai road = ~35 km


so total is ~427.5 km
please correct me if i m wrong :)

I guess you have included shuttle lines also. One of them being Virar-Dahanu. Please add only those which have proper EMU services (dedicated or shared), otherwise all passenger train lines (which practically means all lines of India) can be counted as local commuter lines.

There are more lines.
1) CST to Panvel -> I do not know the distance but should be atleast 60 KMS
2) Vasai Road- Dombivalli-Panvel-> I guess this is quiet a long route may be 80 kms atleast.
3) Sanpada to Uran -> i do not know the distance (25 kms ) wild guess.

The distance are just a guess and not the exact.
Here is the Source with complete network. ->

http://www.urbanrail.net/as/mumb/mumbai.htm

Thus the network would be 427 + 200 (approx) i.e 625 KMS approx.
And if you multiply the tracks the network will be well over 2000 kms.

Dear, network size will still remain 427 km. Network size is calculated by adding route length of lines and not track length. As I said before, whether you have 2 tracks of 100 km or 10 tracks of 100 km, the reach of the network will only be 100 km in both cases. How does it matters to a commuter how many parallel lines are there ?

bombay's ratio of cars is higher than in most cities. not many people use bikes (in comparison) thanks to public transport

out of new registrations cars are only 30% less than 2-wheelers

That's an encouraging sign. 2 wheelers, according to me are not meant for commuting but they are used for this purpose solely in Asia because of their low cost.

I guess you have included shuttle lines also. One of them being Virar-Dahanu. Please add only those which have proper EMU services (dedicated or shared), otherwise all passenger train lines (which practically means all lines of India) can be counted as local commuter lines.

The Local will be extended till Dahanu Soon so lets count it for now. And on all these routes Proper Local trains run, there are no Passenger trains in ay of the route.


Dear, network size will still remain 427 km. Network size is calculated by adding route length of lines and not track length. As I said before, whether you have 2 tracks of 100 km or 10 tracks of 100 km, the reach of the network will only be 100 km in both cases. How does it matters to a commuter how many parallel lines are there ?

I have not added track length, I am just mentioning the Length of the Route (one way one track only). Thus the Total length of the Route (considering 1 Way and 1 track ) is approx 625 KMS. If you see my comments I have mentioned if multiple tracks are added the total length of the network should be well over 2000 KM. However the frequency is not that high of the last 2 routes I have mentioned I guess.
Here is the Map for your reference->
http://www.urbanrail.net/as/mumb/mumbai.htm

http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report_it-s-official-cadbury-junction-is-the-busiest_1373383

The latest traffic volume survey conducted by the Brihanmumbai Municipal Corporation (BMC) shows that peak hour peak direction (phpd) traffic is the highest at the Pedder road junction. Phpd is a yardstick for transport experts to compare traffic flow across junctions.

The phpd count at Pedder road for north-bound traffic from Gopalrao Deshmukh (GD) Marg, the most used arm of the junction, between 5.45pm and 6.45pm was 5,379.

Yeah, I have read this before. But I believe they carried out the survey only in island city, not in suburbs. And Phpd also uses standard car unit measures, I think. Typically, about 3-4 two-wheelers are combined to give 1 car unit and a bus is counted as 3 car units.

Source (http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report_elevated-rail-fast-tracked-in-mumbai_1397364)
Mumbai: The ambitious elevated rail corridor has been put on fast-track. Railways have begun discussions on the design and technical feasibility of the project with stakeholders like the Brihanmumbai Municipal Corporation (BMC), the traffic police, and the state authorities.

On Tuesday, railway authorities along with representatives of project consultants RITES and French firm SYSTRA made a presentation on the project design to senior civic officials from the road and bridges department and senior traffic police officials.

After the discussion round, one thing that is becoming clear is that the elevated rail corridor will not be elevated on the entire route. It might have to go underground for the 6-km stretch between Churchgate and Mahalaxmi, and will have to be on surface level for stretches between Khar to Andheri and Vasai to Virar.

The railway authorities had sought land abutting railway property from the BMC for an elevated route between Churchgate to Mahalaxmi. However, during the meeting, which was chaired by additional municipal commissioner Aseem Gupta, officials from the road and bridges department struck down the suggestion.

They claimed that the concerned roads were not wide enough to sustain the project and its infrastructure requirements. Also, they pointed out that the Mumbai Metropolitan Region Development Authority (MMRDA) was planning a Metro rail along the same route.

The civic officials have been asked to submit their remarks, which could be in by June 20 to the state urban development department, on the extent of rehabilitation required for the underground and above ground utilities for the project.

Yeah, I have read this before. But I believe they carried out the survey only in island city, not in suburbs. And Phpd also uses standard car unit measures, I think. Typically, about 3-4 two-wheelers are combined to give 1 car unit and a bus is counted as 3 car units.

2 two-wheelers = 1 PCU (passenger car unit) and 1 standard size bus = 2 PCUs

There are more lines.
1) CST to Panvel -> I do not know the distance but should be atleast 60 KMS
2) Vasai Road- Dombivalli-Panvel-> I guess this is quiet a long route may be 80 kms atleast.
3) Sanpada to Uran -> i do not know the distance (25 kms ) wild guess.

The distance are just a guess and not the exact.
Here is the Source with complete network. ->

http://www.urbanrail.net/as/mumb/mumbai.htm

Thus the network would be 427 + 200 (approx) i.e 625 KMS approx.
And if you multiply the tracks the network will be well over 2000 kms.

I already counted first 2 lines....last one is u/c under MUTP II I think...:)

I guess you have included shuttle lines also. One of them being Virar-Dahanu. Please add only those which have proper EMU services (dedicated or shared), otherwise all passenger train lines (which practically means all lines of India) can be counted as local commuter lines.


This is how shown everywhere including govt websites. Its always counted till dahanu road. see my previous references

http://www.picscrazy.com/thumb/trainB.jpg (http://www.picscrazy.com/view/trainB)

Does anyone know from from which era this train is?

http://www.picscrazy.com/thumb/trainB.jpg (http://www.picscrazy.com/view/trainB)

Does anyone know from from which era this train is?


thats Virar-Dahanu Memu. and yes, train is in very good condition, what wrong you feel in that?

... might as well ask the same to all the trains in this country.

This is how shown everywhere including govt websites. Its always counted till dahanu road. see my previous references

They are shown because they connect to the main local train lines. Gurgaon's pvt metro line will be shown on DMRC's map and there will be a single ticket for transferring between DMRC line and pvt line. But that does not means that Gurgaon metro line will become a part of Delhi metro.

No Abhishek .. The Virar Dahanu stretch has been officially included within Mumbai Subarbun Area. The commencement of the EMU service will start soon on the entire Churchgate - Dahanu section any time soon. They are currently doing trial runs on this section. Please check the link
Virar-Dahanu rail project ready (http://www.hindustantimes.com/Virar-Dahanu-rail-project-ready/Article1-505454.aspx)
This cannot be compared to DMRC and Gurgaon's PVT metro as they are 2 different opeartors running 2 different service . Here it is the same Operator(Western Railway) running the same EMU services.

Okay. Wasn't aware of the extension of EMU services. It is a good initiative by IR.

Source (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/opinions/6070853.cms)
Over six decades after the Ballard Pier Mole railway station was shut down, the Mumbai Rail Vikas Corporation (MRVC) plans to start from there a fast-track corridor for Central Railway’s harbour line. The plan will need the sanction of the state government and Railway Ministry, as well as the Mumbai Port Trust.

A fast-track corridor is not possible from CST, which is already congested. “We are studying the option of starting the line from Ballard Pier. The fast-track corridor would run parallel to P D’Mello Road. Since there is no space available on either side we have no option but to use Mumbai Port Trust (MbPT) land,” said an MRVC official.

The Ballard Pier Mole station belonged to the Bombay Port Trust. “It may not start from the location where the earlier station stood as hardly anything remains of the station,” said an MRVC official.

The harbour line was started in the 1920s and train services ran between the Victoria Terminus and Kurla stations. As population increased and the government planned to make Navi Mumbai a residential and commercial hub, the harbour line was extended up to Panvel. The harbour line, however, does not have a fast track corridor unlike the main lines of Central Railway and Western Railway.

In the 1920s and 1930s, the Ballard Pier Mole station was a starting point for the Golden Temple Mail and the Frontier Mail. “The station was next to the port. Travellers from the UK and other western countries used to alight here. They would continue the journey to North India and Eastern India on these trains from the Mole station. By the 1940s, air travel became the preferred mode, and the station was shut in 1944,” said a CR official.

The project needs MbPT approval as the corridor would come up on its land. “If the project gets sanction from the state and the Railway Ministry, then land acquisition becomes the responsibility of the government. It is the government that has been acquiring land for Mumbai Urban Transport Project schemes,” the official said.

The government and the railways are also keen on an additional pair of lines between Diva and Vasai. In an MUTP review meeting early this month, Chief Minister Ashok Chavan stressed better connectivity for these areas.

Firms from France, Canada, Japan and Korea are keen to build the next generation of Mumbai’s trains. An Indian public sector undertaking too has bought the bid documents from the Mumbai Rail Vikas Corporation (MRVC).

The project is part of the next phase of the Mumbai Urban Transport Project.

MRVC officials said the next-generation coaches would be more advanced than those introduced in the Phase I of the MUTP.

“We have floated tenders and have invited companies to manufacture EMU rakes for the city’s rail network for the Phase II of Mumbai Urban Transport Project,” said Pramod Chander Sehgal, managing director of MRVC.

MRVC sources said the five global firms that have bought the bid documents include Alstom (France), Bombardier (Canada), Bharat Heavy Electrical Ltd, sources said; the other two are from Japan and South Korea.

The project cost is estimated at Rs 1,300 crore.

A pre-bid meeting with the companies has been scheduled for June and tenders would be opened on September 29. The selected company is expected to start the work by 2011.

The last new rakes introduced by the MRVC under MUTP were manufactured by Siemens.

“There was some conflict between World Bank officials and Siemens, and the company has decided not to participate in World Bank-funded projects till December 2011,” said an MRVC official.

The World Bank is funding both phases of the MUTP. Phase II is worth around Rs 5,300 crore, of which Rs 1,900 will be funded by the Bank.

[QUOTE=“There was some conflict between World Bank officials and Siemens, and the company has decided not to participate in World Bank-funded projects till December 2011,” said an MRVC official[/QUOTE]

There is no conflict. Siemens has been blacklisted by the World Bank. How can anyone call the Siemens rake in Mumbai a new gen? It's the same old dabbha with a new paint scheme and larger windows. It has all the "excellent" features of the older rakes.

"The last new rakes introduced by the MRVC under MUTP were manufactured by Siemens."

they were manufactured by that dinosaur ICF. siemens provided a part of the technology. siemens should close down due to shame if they ever constructed anything like that

sadly i think it will be the same case with this bid

Source (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/opinions/6070853.cms)
Over six decades after the Ballard Pier Mole railway station was shut down, the Mumbai Rail Vikas Corporation (MRVC) plans to start from there a fast-track corridor for Central Railway’s harbour line. The plan will need the sanction of the state government and Railway Ministry, as well as the Mumbai Port Trust.

A fast-track corridor is not possible from CST, which is already congested. “We are studying the option of starting the line from Ballard Pier. The fast-track corridor would run parallel to P D’Mello Road. Since there is no space available on either side we have no option but to use Mumbai Port Trust (MbPT) land,” said an MRVC official.

The Ballard Pier Mole station belonged to the Bombay Port Trust. “It may not start from the location where the earlier station stood as hardly anything remains of the station,” said an MRVC official.

The harbour line was started in the 1920s and train services ran between the Victoria Terminus and Kurla stations. As population increased and the government planned to make Navi Mumbai a residential and commercial hub, the harbour line was extended up to Panvel. The harbour line, however, does not have a fast track corridor unlike the main lines of Central Railway and Western Railway.

In the 1920s and 1930s, the Ballard Pier Mole station was a starting point for the Golden Temple Mail and the Frontier Mail. “The station was next to the port. Travellers from the UK and other western countries used to alight here. They would continue the journey to North India and Eastern India on these trains from the Mole station. By the 1940s, air travel became the preferred mode, and the station was shut in 1944,” said a CR official.

The project needs MbPT approval as the corridor would come up on its land. “If the project gets sanction from the state and the Railway Ministry, then land acquisition becomes the responsibility of the government. It is the government that has been acquiring land for Mumbai Urban Transport Project schemes,” the official said.

The government and the railways are also keen on an additional pair of lines between Diva and Vasai. In an MUTP review meeting early this month, Chief Minister Ashok Chavan stressed better connectivity for these areas.

sounds exciting...so it could be a new line itself, a fast line only...does that mean quadrupling MbPT railway line? what about stations? and can they run a separate line all the way, i hope they dont go thru kurla, in fact cut across trombay from wadala area directly towards mankhurd and navi mumbai...

Siemens provided the 3-phase drive technology for these coaches, which were manufactured by ICF. It had nothing to do with the coaches themselves - hence the typical ICF fit/finish. Also, the cost of these coaches was 1/5th that of the Delhi Metro coaches. You pay peanuts and give the supply contract to monkeys, you will get peanuts.

Source (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/City/Mumbai/Spotless-ride-on-cards-as-WR-rakes-get-a-clean-sweep/articleshow/6093034.cms)
MUMBAI: Soon you can expect a spic-and-span journey on a Western Railway (WR) train, without any ugly sticker staring down at you or paan spit splattered on the walls or garbage dumped under seats.

On Wednesday, the WR upped its ante on the cleaning process from the usual once-in-40-days regime to once in 10 days. That means, besides regular dry- cleaning every day, at an interval of 10 days, a train will be washed with high-pressure jets and cleaned with scrubbers. Four trains, each at the Mumbai Central and Kandivli carsheds, will be scrubbed every day. The new cleaning exercise will set the WR back by more than Rs 2 crore annually (Rs 4.46 crore for two years).

At a pressmeet held at the Mumbai Central carshed on Friday, WR general manager R N Verma said an external agency, M/s Eureka Forbes, had been roped in as “cleanliness had not been up to a satisfactory level and had become a challenge’’.

Dirty trains and stations has been one of the major grievances of WR commuters who made this amply clear in the SMS feedback system. It had even affected the punctuality of trains as on many occasions, commuters would pull the chain after spotting faeces in compartments early in the morning.

Officials said a train would be washed with high-pressure jets, which would also use 30% less water than the ordinary devices. Following this, the dirt will be scraped away with the help of a single-disc scrubber. Once the washing is done, the trains would dried with the help of wet vacuum devices, which would suck away the wet muck, an official said.

On an average, every coach will require 20-25 minutes for the entire exercise and if a rake is particularly dirty, it will take 30-45 minutes for a clean-up. Every day, 730 coaches will be “dry cleaned’’, while 90 coaches will be go through “a rigorous wash’’ daily.

An adhesive remover, along with scrappers, will be used to remove stickers. “We will remove every one of the stickers. We hope that if we keep taking them off, those sticking them illegally will stop pasting the posters after a point,’’ said Verma.

The clean-up is not the only area WR officials are concentrating on; they will also take care of their their personnel doing the job—they will be provided with safety gadgets while cleaning the rakes. “To save water, we will use borewells at the carsheds. We will require 500 litre per coach but that amount may be cut down after a point of time,’’ said an official.

DIVA - VASAI ROAD PUSH PULL DMU

fVZritrwwJY

PANVEL MEMU

rGZ1Rih2lVY&NR=1

Vasai Rd Panvel Memu

N7H3R6vj72M

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/1993/30062010006003.jpg

What countries will they be comparing it to? Somalia? Pakistan?

what? that cant be an indian news article. i dont see the words 'swanky', 'world-class', etc

red and yellow colors ???

$780mn World Bank loan for improving Mumbai train system

WASHINGTON: The World Bank has approved $430 million to finance further improvement of Mumbai's suburban railway system, considered the lifeline of the megacity with a population of nearly 15 million.

The Bank's Board on Tuesday also approved $350 million to finance the Dam Rehabilitation and Improvement Project which aims to improve the safety and sustainable performance of over 220 selected dams in Kerala, Madhya Pradesh, Orissa, and Tamil Nadu.

The Mumbai Urban Transport Project 2A aims to add more vehicle capacity during peak hours, reduce peak hour overcrowding, shorten journey times and improve operational efficiency, the Bank said.

As many as 720 train cars will be added in the system. The project will also expand maintenance facilities, provide additional stabling lines, and complete the conversion from 1500V DC to 25KV AC traction of the remaining sections of Central Railway in the Mumbai Metropolitan Region.

"The first Mumbai Urban Transport Project has already managed to reduce the level of crowding in suburban trains from 4,500 to 4100 passengers per 9-coach train at peak hours in spite of traffic increase," said Hubert Nove-Josserand, World Bank Senior Urban Transport Specialist and Project Team Leader.

"This follow up project will further improve the capacity, operational efficiency, level of comfort and strengthen the institutional capacity of the agencies in charge of the suburban rail system in the Mumbai Metropolitan area."

source : TOI , Link : http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/780mn-World-Bank-loan-for-improving-Mumbai-train-system/articleshow/6109733.cms

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/1993/30062010006003.jpg

If you look at the cost, it is again close to 1.5 crore per car, equal to the cost of current rakes. Then what do they mean by intl standards. They are still talking about fans :bash:

Why can't they have delhi metro broad gauge trains on suburban routes and increase the fares to 10Rs minimum, I bet all Mumbaikars will pay
This will reduce all the crowd hanging outside the trains (forcefully push everyone )

what? that cant be an indian news article. i dont see the words 'swanky', 'world-class', etc

Because now they will be using the International Standards' words like "standards".

Source (http://www.hindustantimes.com/More-money-for-city-trains/Article1-565663.aspx)
In a move that will improve local train travel and bring relief to 70 lakh commuters, the World Bank on Wednesday cleared a loan of Rs 1,978 crore (US $430 million) for the first phase of Mumbai Urban Transport Project (MUTP) II.

The project will add 72 new 12-coach trains to the suburban train service. By 2014, MUTP II will ensure that a local train pulls into a station in less than every three minutes.

Of the Rs 3,800 crore project cost, the state and the railways are expected to spend the rest.

Now, both the state and the railways have to figure out how they will allot Rs 911 crore each.

The railways has proposed a surcharge of 8-10 per cent on train tickets, which means the minimum fare may rise from Rs 4 to Rs 4.50.

Sources in the Mumbai Rail Vikas Corporation (MRVC) said the hike is essential. “Ticket prices have stayed the same since 2006. A minimal surcharge of 8-10 per cent in ticket prices will make it easier to recover the cost.”

This plan is yet to get the final go-ahead from the railway board.

The state and the railways also plan to share revenue from the sale of a 10-acre railway plot in Bandra (East). The plot is expected to fetch Rs 4,000 crore, half of which can go to MUTP II, said P.C. Sehgal, managing director, MRVC, adding that the funding issue will be resolved in 20 days.

“The loan approval is good news for the city. The state has kept aside funds and the project won’t be delayed because of funds crunch,” said T.C. Benjamin, principal secretary, urban development department.

Its completely impossible to control such a huge crowd no matter what advanced technology you bring in or whatever comforts you bring in the city. Unless there is another mode of Transport that's able to carry a train-dependent crowd of the city, it is really a waste of money for any government to invest. So all this proposed investment is worthless until the 3 phases of the Metro is ready and then they can do a phase-by-phase overhaul which will take at least 15 years after the execution of the metro.

Any plans to improve the signage and ease of use in locals? I took a local for the first time last week from Lower Parel to Grant Rd at arnd 7:30pm on a friday. I know it wasn't peak direction but it was still rush hour. I was surprised to immediately find a seat. At one point when I was getting up one person bumped into me and turned around to apologize! Although getting off was a bit of a squeeze.

Still they should put up signs saying fast track/slow track and which direction cuz I was kinda lost. Also it would be good to have signs nearby to stations.

Any plans to improve the signage and ease of use in locals? I took a local for the first time last week from Lower Parel to Grant Rd at arnd 7:30pm on a friday. I know it wasn't peak direction but it was still rush hour. I was surprised to immediately find a seat. At one point when I was getting up one person bumped into me and turned around to apologize! Although getting off was a bit of a squeeze.

Still they should put up signs saying fast track/slow track and which direction cuz I was kinda lost. Also it would be good to have signs nearby to stations.

They have it mentioned in the indicators whether its a slow or fast train, which direction etc . Havent you travelled on the locals before when in mumbai earlier?And before the trains start off there is anouncement in all the new locals as well as the old locals (ithink) whether its a fast or slow train but that happen only when the train starts from the first station.

Any plans to improve the signage and ease of use in locals? I took a local for the first time last week from Lower Parel to Grant Rd at arnd 7:30pm on a friday. I know it wasn't peak direction but it was still rush hour. I was surprised to immediately find a seat. At one point when I was getting up one person bumped into me and turned around to apologize! Although getting off was a bit of a squeeze.

Still they should put up signs saying fast track/slow track and which direction cuz I was kinda lost. Also it would be good to have signs nearby to stations.

all indicator have sign, like for slow "S" for Fast "F" on indicators..... in western line u will also find in how much time next local will arrive+S/F on that plat form

all indicator have sign, like for slow "S" for Fast "F" on indicators..... in western line u will also find in how much time next local will arrive+S/F on that plat form

yup

check ya pm btw way

I took a local for the first time last week from Lower Parel to Grant Rd at arnd 7:30pm on a friday.

Congratulations man ! You are now qualified to handle absolutely anything that life can throw at you :)

Congratulations man ! You are now qualified to handle absolutely anything that life can throw at you :)

+1, have you guys seen the advert about American Tourister’s - "Survive Mumbai, Survive the World."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt1VKvDoESQ

oh please

its really not that bad outside rush hour. Infact trains are quite empty.

oh please

its really not that bad outside rush hour. Infact trains are quite empty.

hmm true.... now almost every big city has crowding issue.... same like Tokyo metro, london metro, delhi metro....

oh please

its really not that bad outside rush hour. Infact trains are quite empty.

+1
It is hardly anything. It is in opposite direction. And beyond Mumbai central the crowd reduces significantly even during peak hours.

A train towards Virar in the evening will be a good challenge!!

yup

outside say 7am to 10am north to south

and 4pm to 7pm south to north.

the commute is infact quite nice. You even get a seat sometimes.


Its the rush hour which is the biggest issue. Too many people going in the same direction at the same time.I hope BKC somewhat balances that equation.I would think that Mumbai's public transport would be 100% perfect with no need for a metro if we had planned our centres of growth better and not concentrated things in the extreme south of the city.. Slowly that is happening with BKC Andheri etc etc. Its the same for the vehicles on the roads.

^^infact the crowd in rush hrs atleast on the western line during peak hrs has reduced .No more people hanging onto windows or travelling between bogies or on rooftops .

^^infact the crowd in rush hrs atleast on the western line during peak hrs has reduced .No more people hanging onto windows or travelling between bogies or on rooftops .

maybe thats cause more people working in Andheri/BKC

yup

outside say 7am to 10am north to south

and 4pm to 7pm south to north.

the commute is infact quite nice. You even get a seat sometimes.

7PM may be less. Its quiet a challange to catch 9:30 PM local to Virar from Dadar. I remember how difficult it was to enter in the train even at 11 PM from Mulund to kalyan but that was more than a year back. Probably if I would have waited for 2 more mins, I would have got somewhat less packed train, but I had already let 1 Packed train go before that one :)
Now yes things are improved to some extent.

oh please

its really not that bad outside rush hour. Infact trains are quite empty.

Depends on which of the CR or WR you are talking about. Honestly, I have felt the same amount of rush in the afternoons around 4 or 5 commuting from Kandivali to Churchgate two or three times a few years ago. Has this scenario changed?

Depends on which of the CR or WR you are talking about. Honestly, I have felt the same amount of rush in the afternoons around 4 or 5 commuting from Kandivali to Churchgate two or three times a few years ago. Has this scenario changed?

hmm things have improved since then. Frequency has increased in general. I can honestly say outside rush hour there is some breathing space. Overall i would say rush hour has become worse. While outside rush hour its become better. mean rush hour has 5000 people in a compartment with capacity of 1700. Outside rush hour its 1500-1800 in a capacity of 1700 depending on route.

@Devendra

I can assure you that frequency at mulund has heavily increased. the reason being many more trains are starting and ending from/at Kalyan. It will further increased with the opening of Thane to Kurla lines.and the Thane-Diva-Kalyan section for lines 5-6 which is progressing at a much faster rate than Thane to Kurla.It seems that the work progresses at a slower rate once one gets to closer to CST.

My cousin takes the Thane to Nerul route in rush hour and says that the frequency which was abysmal is now good and he gets a seat everyday and the trains run on time.


All in all I must say since Mamata has taken the reigns everybody i talk to (as i myself dont travel via the railways much due to work place being close by) say that things are improving on the suburban. The lady is doing something right i guess.

hmm things have improved since then. Frequency has increased in general. I can honestly say outside rush hour there is some breathing space. Overall i would say rush hour has become worse. While outside rush hour its become better. mean rush hour has 5000 people in a compartment with capacity of 1700. Outside rush hour its 1500-1800 in a capacity of 1700 depending on route.



You mean a train, not a compartment. Well hopefully there will be some breathing space during my next visit.

Rlys mulls double-decker coaches for Mumbai locals
Roana Maria Costa | TNN


Lucknow: Mumbai’s local trains could soon get double-decker coaches. The Research Designs and Standards Organisation (RDSO), Indian Railways’ R&D wing in Lucknow, is mulling double-decker local trains to accommodate the increasing passenger traffic in trains.
According to RDSO director-general KBL Mittal, they will prepare a design of a double-decker local and present it to the Mumbai Railway Vikas Corporation (MRVC) and also to Central Railway and Western Railway to check their acceptability after feasibility test.
A two-storey local is a better idea than adding to the number of coaches on local trains. The MRVC has already sent a proposal to the RDSO to study the feasibility of 18-coach trains.
Longer coaches carry more commuters but come with their own set of problems, including crowd dispersal. Changes will be made in existing infrastructure, like re-spacing of signals, increase in platform length and alteration in track alignment.
Double-decker coaches would only require changes in the coach design. “We will need more entry and exit points. Doors and staircases will have to be built much wider to allow easy access. So this will decrease the number of commuters they can carry,” , Mittal said. Every double-decker coach will carry 30% more people.
The number of doors will have to be increased too as the current 30-second halt would be insufficient for easy passage. Now coaches have three doors. Even though the coaches would be higher, officials said this wouldn’t be much of a problem on Western Railway as the Flying Ranee — where some coaches were already doubledecker — already plied between Mumbai Central and Surat.

The Blueprint Has Been Lying With The Indian Rlys’ Design Wing For One Year
Roana Maria Costa | TNN
Lucknow: For the last one year, the Research Designs and Standards Organisation (RDSO), the research and design organisation of the Indian Railways, has a blueprint ready that could elevate Mumbai’s travelling comfort, especially during the harsh summer. The organisation has a design in place for an air-conditioned (AC) train for the city’ suburban network. Its efforts, however, have no takers as neither the Mumbai Railway Vikar Corporation (MRVC) nor the Central or Western Railway wants the project to be taken to a workshop, officials said.
A K Gupta, executive director, Passenger Services and Electric Multiple Unit (EMU), said that the reasons could be many. For instance, the most common being the number of commuters would have to be drastically reduced to enable the doors to be shut. Also, a decision would have to be taken on cost economics. Increasing passenger growth has turned the project into a point of debate.
The number of commuters would be reduced by around 200 per coach from the current 500 in ‘super dense crush load’ situations during peak hours. “Closing of doors would be difficult as around 15-20 people are generally hanging or are present at the door area,’’ added Gupta. Another official said that if the door would not be shut, the train would not move forward.
“We have designed an AC train as we know that it would be required. All the specifications and designs are in place. We are ready to manufacture an AC EMU. But not all depends on public demand. The decision is with the MRVC and the railways now,’’ said director general, RDSO, K B L Mittal.
According to officials, first class coaches would be made AC first and the seating arrangement has not been decided yet.
“The current format may be followed or the seats may be lined against the length of the train. Many possibilities are being explored, including having three AC coaches. Each coach would come at an additional cost of Rs 50-60 lakh,’’ they added.
Talks of getting AC coaches have been on for around a decade. Around 10 years ago, WR converted a section of a coach to AC, at its Mahalaxmi workshop, at an additional cost of Rs 17 lakh. It was even run between Mumbai Central and Bandra. However, the plan had to be abandoned as WR failed to get the requisite permissions. There was also a proposal to run an AC train on Central Railway between CST and Kalyan, but it was rejected as it did not get permission from the Railway Board; commuters also protested that the railways was wasting its resources on the elite.
Also, around the same time, the then DRM of WR had proposed to convert all first class compartments to AC ones as a value-added service. This proposal too did not see the light of the day.

Train derails in Mumbai, no casualties
Mumbai: Local train services on the Western Railway line were hit this afternoon after three wheels of a front coach of Virar-Churchgate train was derailed at suburban Mahim station, railway officials said.

"Three wheels of a front coach of a Virar-Churchgate bound train was derailed at Mahim station at 2:50 pm. The restoration work is on. The local trains ran late by about 10-15 minutes," Western Railway PRO C David said.

Rlys mulls double-decker coaches for Mumbai locals
Roana Maria Costa | TNN


Lucknow: Mumbai’s local trains could soon get double-decker coaches. The Research Designs and Standards Organisation (RDSO), Indian Railways’ R&D wing in Lucknow, is mulling double-decker local trains to accommodate the increasing passenger traffic in trains.
According to RDSO director-general KBL Mittal, they will prepare a design of a double-decker local and present it to the Mumbai Railway Vikas Corporation (MRVC) and also to Central Railway and Western Railway to check their acceptability after feasibility test.
A two-storey local is a better idea than adding to the number of coaches on local trains. The MRVC has already sent a proposal to the RDSO to study the feasibility of 18-coach trains.
Longer coaches carry more commuters but come with their own set of problems, including crowd dispersal. Changes will be made in existing infrastructure, like re-spacing of signals, increase in platform length and alteration in track alignment.
Double-decker coaches would only require changes in the coach design. “We will need more entry and exit points. Doors and staircases will have to be built much wider to allow easy access. So this will decrease the number of commuters they can carry,” , Mittal said. Every double-decker coach will carry 30% more people.
The number of doors will have to be increased too as the current 30-second halt would be insufficient for easy passage. Now coaches have three doors. Even though the coaches would be higher, officials said this wouldn’t be much of a problem on Western Railway as the Flying Ranee — where some coaches were already doubledecker — already plied between Mumbai Central and Surat.

bad move.

People have to realise that the length of the track from kalyan to Cst for eg has about 23 stops.

You increase the stopping time to 1minute for every station means your adding about 12 minutes to the commute.......



Rather than this they should try having a frequency of a train every minute in rush hour instead of 3min they currently have.

^^^ IMO, double decker rakes should be used to bring commuters from the outside borivili (ON WR) and outside Thane (on CR) into the city. Make it a fast train south of Borivili and Thane. This will free up more normal rakes for other routes and only limited stations would be impacted.

In the end, I believe they just have one thing in mind: stuff as many as people as you can in one car. Doesn't matter if you suffocate or you are crushed amidst the sweat and chameli ka tel.

They should consider building 2 level platforms to go with these double decker locals. The upper deck (in the train) riders should be able to get on and off the train using the upper level platform from dedicated upper deck train door(s).

As an added benefit, this would increase pedestrian space in the train station as well.

^^Good idea but not feasible. The floor partition in train (floor of the upper deck) would be much thinner, as it is made of metal sheets, as compared to the slab that would be required for building upper deck of the platform. And the platform upper deck can't be of metal sheets for it would need lots of scafolding to prop it up ...

^^^ IMO, double decker rakes should be used to bring commuters from the outside borivili (ON WR) and outside Thane (on CR) into the city. Make it a fast train south of Borivili and Thane. This will free up more normal rakes for other routes and only limited stations would be impacted.

^^ +1

Have seen this type of seggregation in NYC / Tokyo and it really makes sense.

Some More Points.
1) With Double Decker trains I presume the Height on the first level be reduced. But I think the Floor Height is also reduced (on the part where wheels are not there). So this should not be of much problem.
2) I still think it should be feasible to have 2 level platforms, which will reduce lot of crowd on the current platforms - But in order for this to happen lot of changes are needed and the following major problems should be resolved.
i) The biggest problem is most people hang on the doors when station arrives and jump even before it halts. If the upper level platform is exactly above the current level lot of people will get crushed (Currently the floor level of local train is on the same level or an inch above the platform level). So the Upper platform level should be at least 7 feet above the current one (so that even if the hands are raised they do not get crushed). This looks almost immpossible since this will mean increase in the Height of the train itself and demolishing lot of FOB's and ofcourse the Metro line 1 Bridge is just going at a marginal height above the local train. But that is a need of the day as the crowding on the platforms is too much.
ii) Or we can lower the platform level of the ground floor. These Platforms should be reserved exclusively for Double Decker trains . The Position of the Entry doors should be before the Wheels(where the seating will be lowered) and not above the wheels where they are currently positioned. Then we can think of the upper level platform(7-8 feet above current one) and without increasing the Height of the train and thus avoiding demolotion of the FOB's etc.

I am not a design speacialist but some one of you can comment if this can be possible by taking height of the current Double decker train and the required upper level platform into consideration.

If not at all possible then increasing the no of doors with limited no of stops is probably the only option or there can be electronic doors on the upper level will will open only on selected stations. Announcements can be made that people getting down at these stations only can use the upper floor.:)

Some of the above ideas sound stupid but its always better to throw up ideas probly one of them can work :lol:

well personally I think there is a lot more which can be improved before the investment in double deckers.Why not say wait for the impact of metro line 1 and then gauge your needs from that? They are already adding tracks 5-6 on the eastern side. Get the basics right before moving onto ideas like double deckers.

sometimes its best to try the obvious solutions than grand schemes.


In general though you will be really slowing down the train speed as well or have to pay extra for a more powerful engine to pull the extra load.

I am also guessing considering our trains run via electricity in cable lines above them , the height of those lines will surely have to be changed which means you will need a lot of investment in this.

Enough of these fancy suggestions. Get the basics right, like replacing worn out tracks and signal systems. Then come to the fancy stuff.

Double Decker local trains = Anyone who comes up with such an idea has no idea of the situation on the ground. It's a typical case of frog in the well.

Enough of these fancy suggestions. Get the basics right, like replacing worn out tracks and signal systems. Then come to the fancy stuff.

Are you sure if the signalling system can be improved in terms of lowering the waiting time for the trains ?.Also will that bring down the freq of the train to say 1 min or so ?.
I read in news sometime back that there is a signalling system which will provide the signals directly in the Drivers cabin instead of the traditional signals which will no longer be required. This may reduce the freq to 1-2 min from Current 3 mins (If I am correct).
However this may have lot of risks as mentioned in the news due to too many trains and tracks. Not sure if Metro signalling more better than the current local train ones.

But is the current Freq 3 mins? I think its now reduced to 90 secs. I may be wrong here:). And its better the R&D happens because sooner or later we may require 18 Coach /Double Decker trains for a comfortable ride. This is still R&D then some testing will happen, then all those permissions from IR and then the Budget and finally Manufacturing , making changes on IR infra side etc. SO its quiet long time still :lol:. i STILL AGREE Other things like adding tracks, improving stations and signalling system (if there is a possibility) should be done on a higher priority and speed.

Mumbai aqua trains :lol:

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^
that actually shows how efficient the system is. The electric lines which power the train are overhead. Meaning that electricity does not pass through the tracks.

making low laying areas still accessible by train even though flooded.

Also proves my point about double deckers. They will have the raise the height of the overhead wires quite a bit.

Are you sure if the signalling system can be improved in terms of lowering the waiting time for the trains ?.Also will that bring down the freq of the train to say 1 min or so ?.
I read in news sometime back that there is a signalling system which will provide the signals directly in the Drivers cabin instead of the traditional signals which will no longer be required. This may reduce the freq to 1-2 min from Current 3 mins (If I am correct).
However this may have lot of risks as mentioned in the news due to too many trains and tracks. Not sure if Metro signalling more better than the current local train ones.

But is the current Freq 3 mins? I think its now reduced to 90 secs. I may be wrong here:). And its better the R&D happens because sooner or later we may require 18 Coach /Double Decker trains for a comfortable ride. This is still R&D then some testing will happen, then all those permissions from IR and then the Budget and finally Manufacturing , making changes on IR infra side etc. SO its quiet long time still :lol:. i STILL AGREE Other things like adding tracks, improving stations and signalling system (if there is a possibility) should be done on a higher priority and speed.


well as you know. Many times trains have to wait before approaching the platform of the station. A smart automated signalling system will change all that.

Current frequency from Mulund in peak hour is a train every 3 min. That is supposedly going to change with track 5-6 all the way to CST to 1 minute thanks to out of station trains having their own dedicated track and locals their own. They have plastered posters as Thane station saying one fast train every 1 minute from thane to cst stopping at Mulund ghatkopar Kurla Sion Dadar Parel Buyculla and CST


they are still in the process of converting from 1500W DC to 25,000AC. That thing is taking like forever to happen. Should increase the speed of trains quite a bit. Expecting commuting times to drop by 20% for those in the outer fringes on MMR.

So they are trying out a lot of things(or have been doing so for the past 10 years) many of which are near completion. Lets see from there what happens.

del

^
that actually shows how efficient the system is. The electric lines which power the train are overhead. Meaning that electricity does not pass through the tracks.

making low laying areas still accessible by train even though flooded.

Also proves my point about double deckers. They will have the raise the height of the overhead wires quite a bit.

Wouldn't it be better to prevent flooding of low-lying areas? Are these areas below sea-level?

Wouldn't it be better to prevent flooding of low-lying areas? Are these areas below sea-level?

yes

you can even see Parel station in the video.


It cant be helped....

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that actually shows how efficient the system is. The electric lines which power the train are overhead. Meaning that electricity does not pass through the tracks.

making low laying areas still accessible by train even though flooded.

Also proves my point about double deckers. They will have the raise the height of the overhead wires quite a bit.

I hope u r kiddin mate...

...electricity from overhead system does pass through tracks. mostly they are earthed via tracks, but in case of mumbai it could be earthed via secondary overhead cables (i dont think thats true coz i never saw them, but im not sure)...whatever the case, current passes through at least certain sections of tracks (although very low amount)...besides there are currents (again very low in amperes) for track circuits and other signalling equipment on tracks. and even in best cases (i.e. no track current at all which is possible only in non-electrified railway without elecrical signals, interlocking, etc.), there is still a danger of some sort of intereference or even short circuits caused by any faulty wire of equipment in so many kms of flooded area around the tracks.

you can nevertheless say they are efficient coz they can still manage to run trains on flooded tracks and still have some signals ON, but the danger is present right there under you, next to you...and for people who think getting down in water is cool, i really wish the best for them, hope the milli-amps running thru there bodies remain in millis.

and for double deckers...they will never raise the OH wires for them...surely not...coz doing that will be equivalent to re-electrifying the whole system (unless there are some really clever machines that can do it and raise the gantries and other support infrastructure, and that too in a few hours of the megablock, etc.)....so the only thing they might do is run double deckers like the BCT-Surat ones...i dont support double deckers at all, they will solve nothing...they are a cheap/dirty solution (in fact not even a solution, just worst case option) for a 100 times bigger problem...

Can any one update on what the current status of the 5th and 6th line between Diva and Kalyan ?
Rail Vikas Nigam Limited has marked it as complete ? is it so ?
http://www.rvnl.org/project/completed-projects.php

Some More Points.
1) With Double Decker trains I presume the Height on the first level be reduced. But I think the Floor Height is also reduced (on the part where wheels are not there). So this should not be of much problem.
2) I still think it should be feasible to have 2 level platforms, which will reduce lot of crowd on the current platforms - But in order for this to happen lot of changes are needed and the following major problems should be resolved.
i) The biggest problem is most people hang on the doors when station arrives and jump even before it halts. If the upper level platform is exactly above the current level lot of people will get crushed (Currently the floor level of local train is on the same level or an inch above the platform level). So the Upper platform level should be at least 7 feet above the current one (so that even if the hands are raised they do not get crushed). This looks almost immpossible since this will mean increase in the Height of the train itself and demolishing lot of FOB's and ofcourse the Metro line 1 Bridge is just going at a marginal height above the local train. But that is a need of the day as the crowding on the platforms is too much.
ii) Or we can lower the platform level of the ground floor. These Platforms should be reserved exclusively for Double Decker trains . The Position of the Entry doors should be before the Wheels(where the seating will be lowered) and not above the wheels where they are currently positioned. Then we can think of the upper level platform(7-8 feet above current one) and without increasing the Height of the train and thus avoiding demolotion of the FOB's etc.

I am not a design speacialist but some one of you can comment if this can be possible by taking height of the current Double decker train and the required upper level platform into consideration.

If not at all possible then increasing the no of doors with limited no of stops is probably the only option or there can be electronic doors on the upper level will will open only on selected stations. Announcements can be made that people getting down at these stations only can use the upper floor.:)

Some of the above ideas sound stupid but its always better to throw up ideas probly one of them can work :lol:

double decker trains have doors on only one level... the idea you are suggesting means you need to have atleast 6 feet high doors on both levels. This would mean the height of the coach will be atleast 12-14 feet on top of the wheel base. not good for the centre of gravity. Also, to retrofit the stations to support this would be ridiculous and impact current operations massively. Here is a picture of an Indian double decker coach (not local but long distance)
http://im.rediff.com/money/2010/apr/01train.jpg
Contrast with double decker coaches used for commuter rail in Toronto (where platforms are much lower)
http://en.wikivisual.com/images/2/2d/Go_Train_046.jpg