Until recent times, clubs were not 'privately owned' as far as I was aware so that would have prevented the interest in building your own ground.

In England it is different, where clubs are businesses which have to make profits etc. In Italy there is some sort of tax benefit in staying a 'not-for-profit' entity. They keep changing the laws but essentially if you go around aquiring 'assets' like real estate and buildings then they can be taxable.

Then you get to that dodgy player trading system they have. Like the old stock market for penny stocks. I still don't understand how that works. It makes money for some however.

^^^^^^^^^^

They should have relocated to Milano. Juventus has a larger following in Milan. Leave Turin to FC Torino.

This is not NBA, it simply won't happen. Never. Not here.


There are many reasony why such a low attendance:
- majority of Juve's fans is not located in Torino but outside the city
- awful stadium
- fans in Torino have never been as passionate as those in Rome or Milano

I like the project of new stadium. It's not an architecture masterpiece, but I'm quite sure it's going to have everything what modern stadium needs. And more important, all financial income inside new Arena goes directly to Juve's purse.

Great post, and great analysis. Another couple of things I can say about the poor attendance at Juventus' matches:

1) weather: Torino is one of the coldest places in Italy, a few people would like to sit in a cold and icy night on a stand when you can have a glance at the match at home or in a pub. and this leads me to the second point:

2) the stadium itself: in Italy, frankly, they're terrible. I'm not a big football fan, but I've been in some stadiums for various reasons (rugby, concerts...) and I can say that those i've seen (Genova, Milano, Torino, Padova) aren't places where I'd take my family AT ALL. you can't find a toilet, the very few bars are just plastic boxes which can be closed in a few seconds, everything is made in concrete or steel, designed not to be used as a missile during fights. Our stadiums are ugly, and unconfortable.

3) unsafeness: the most organised supporters are often criminals. Many of them can't get in since they've been given a DASPO (a restriction order), but this doesn't mean they won't try entering. Moreover, at least in my opinion, the sight of rows and rows of riot police doesn't make me feel safer, but the reverse.

4) prices: Torino is quite an industrial town, which has been hit hardly by crisis in the '90s and also nowadays. once it was an industrial town, nowadays it is not (in the '60s-'70s about the 60% of working force was employed in factories, now it's about 15-20%). this means many lost their jobs. what's written at Upton Park's entrance? "Football is working class' ballet". Our working class members, who used to attend matches, often don't have enough money for buying season tickets. Recently, Juve has started selling ticket at bargain prices for students, especially when away fans aren't allowed to follow their team.

I think the new stadium has been design to correct these faults and that's why I like it despite not being a true eye-candy. It's a good arena, we can't ask for more, I think.

Juve has already played 'home' games in Milan.

They were bandying about, quite seriously too, relocating to Naples not too long ago as their support is mainly from the 'southerners'.

If I was running the club, I would move to Milan. The few people from Turin that do follow Juve can take the train to watch them up the road at San Siro. Milan's population is about a 1/3 Juve, 1/3 Inter, 1/3 A.C. Milan. It is the town where the money is. Turin was big as an industrial city but that has been in decline for decades.

When did Juve play home matches in Milan? about the idea of re-locating the team, I remember some managers spoke about it, but it was just a political move: the City Council was debating about building permissions of the new arena, and Juventus thought this provocative proposal could move things on.

About football "faith" in Milan, I think you're maximising things. And the same about Torino alleged decadence, let me invite you down here to show it's really not like that.

Until recent times, clubs were not 'privately owned' as far as I was aware so that would have prevented the interest in building your own ground.

I'm afraid this is not completely right. I am quite sure that both Juve and Torino FC weren't public owned. Apart its foundation by some high school students, Juve was bought by the Swiss businessman Alex Dick, who lately sold it and found the rival team "Torino FC". Later on, in the '20s, the Agnellis bought Juve. In Italian football, the "presidente" is also the owner of the team.

In Italy there is some sort of tax benefit in staying a 'not-for-profit' entity. They keep changing the laws but essentially if you go around aquiring 'assets' like real estate and buildings then they can be taxable.


I am not an expert in this field, I admit, but I know many football clubs which are quoted at Milan's stock exchange, so they aren't non-profit entities.

There is an excellent book on Italian football called 'Calcio' by Ian Foot. It explains everything about what goes on over there.

The book is not trying to be a work of amusement, but some of the things that go on over in Italy is just pure comedy.

I'd love to live in Italy for a while. You can see why their people are always walking around with big smiles on their faces. Their whole society is simply comedic. The Roman Empire must have been a complete crack up if Italy is any measure.

There is an excellent book on Italian football called 'Calcio' by Ian Foot. It explains everything about what goes on over there.

The book is not trying to be a work of amusement, but some of the things that go on over in Italy is just pure comedy.

I'd love to live in Italy for a while. You can see why their people are always walking around with big smiles on their faces. Their whole society is simply comedic. The Roman Empire must have been a complete crack up if Italy is any measure.

Ok, how long before the usual sterotypes... "mafia, calcio, mamma, pizza and mandolines"? everyone with big smiles on their faces? I suppose that must be a typical sight in ProzacVille, but not 'round here. Not in the country I've been living most of time since I was born.

In fact, talking about people with big smiles in Turin, from an Italian point of view, is slightly ironic. It's just like saying Scots are spendthrift. :D

it's just because we don't exaggerate... "esageruma nen!"

yes we need them. i don't show you the pictures of Teramo Stadium guys, i feel ashamed for my country

Luckily Wikipedia has them for us: http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadio_Comunale_(Teramo)#Nuovo_Stadio

That stadium isn't anything to be ashamed of. Yes it's small, but Teramo is a small team.

This is much better than what Bari has for instance.

^^^^^^^^^^

Been to Italy numerous times. Fascinating place and people. Definately they are different up there.

Love the thing where Italians don't like to wear crash helmets with motor bikes because it says to the world, "I am not confident in my riding skills." So they don't wear 'em.

Same thing with seat belts in cars.

Also they break speed limits because it is liberating to be a scofflaw.

They are never on time because they don't like to be slaves to rules.

Great attitudes in life. We should all be part Italian. We'd be a lot happier. Everyone should live there for a while to get out of the Anglo-Saxon straight jacket.

What is bizarre is that Germany is only up the road and that lot are obsessed with everything being on time and organized. They cannot sleep at night if something is a minute out of step or disorganized.

Any wonder that Gerry has the most depressed people in Europe.

^^^^^^^^^^

Been to Italy numerous times. Fascinating place and people. Definately they are different up there.
...
Great attitudes in life. We should all be part Italian. We'd be a lot happier. Everyone should live there for a while to get out of the Anglo-Saxon straight jacket.

come to argentina and you will fall in love with us, here we are all part italian, like you said

For some interested in Attendance Statistics, now the average for Italian Serie A 2008-2009:
59.441 Milan
52.446 Inter
40.802 Roma
38.299 Napoli
33.527 Lazio
30.568 Fiorentina
25.017 Genoa
24.985 Samp
23.718 Palermo
22.425 Juventus
19.520 Bologna
18.065 Catania
17.295 Torino
14.770 Udinese
13.430 Atalanta
13.406 Lecce
12.433 Reggina
12.292 Chievo
10.937 Siena
?????? Cagliari (info not reported...)

And now Serie B (italian Championship):
Bari 10573
Salern. 10486
Parma 10044
Pisa 9341
Livorno 7642
Vicenza 7409
Mantova 6787
Triestina 5794
Ancona 5741
Modena 5170
Ascoli 4866
Empoli 4556
Sassuolo 4500
Rimini 4036
Avellino 3476
Frosinone 3342
Albinol. 3235
Grosseto 3126
Piacenza 3026
Treviso 2937
Brescia 2673
Cittadella 1148

All dates are from my website, StadiaPostcards - http://www.stadiapostcards.com where you can find every monday, a complete report, club by club, match by match, of italian football statistics from Serie A to Lega Pro!
Also there is an archive from 1962-63 to today!

Pyramid in Italy:
Serie A - 20 clubs
Serie B - 22 clubs
Lega Pro 1st div - 2 groups of 18 clubs
Lega Pro 2nd div - 3 groups of 18 clubs
CND - 9 groups of 18,20 and 21 clubs

As next month start a new edition of Six Nations, I will posts some shoots of the redeveloped Stadio Flaminio in Roma.
For Six Nations 2008 were so added additional seats in the 2 ends, and new seats were also added in the down part of main covered stand.
Capacity rise so from 24.500 / 25.000 to 30.500/31.000
Sorry for my bad english!

Before redevelopment, attendance of 24.500
Italy - Scotland 2006 (http://www.stadiapostcards.com/itasco2006.htm)

New version, attendance 30.570
Italy - Scotland 2008 (http://www.stadiapostcards.com/itasco2008.htm)

Great to see you here. I saw your website 4-5 years ago.

Maybe you can help us.
Do you have an official number or an exact number of the record attendance in Italy?
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=188419&page=12

For some interested in Attendance Statistics, now the average for Italian Serie A 2008-2009:
59.441 Milan
52.446 Inter
40.802 Roma
38.299 Napoli
33.527 Lazio
30.568 Fiorentina
25.017 Genoa
24.985 Samp
23.718 Palermo
22.425 Juventus
19.520 Bologna
18.065 Catania
17.295 Torino
14.770 Udinese
13.430 Atalanta
13.406 Lecce
12.433 Reggina
12.292 Chievo
10.937 Siena
?????? Cagliari (info not reported...)

And now Serie B (italian Championship):
Bari 10573
Salern. 10486
Parma 10044
Pisa 9341
Livorno 7642
Vicenza 7409
Mantova 6787
Triestina 5794
Ancona 5741
Modena 5170
Ascoli 4866
Empoli 4556
Sassuolo 4500
Rimini 4036
Avellino 3476
Frosinone 3342
Albinol. 3235
Grosseto 3126
Piacenza 3026
Treviso 2937
Brescia 2673
Cittadella 1148

All dates are from my website, StadiaPostcards - http://www.stadiapostcards.com where you can find every monday, a complete report, club by club, match by match, of italian football statistics from Serie A to Lega Pro!
Also there is an archive from 1962-63 to today!

Pyramid in Italy:
Serie A - 20 clubs
Serie B - 22 clubs
Lega Pro 1st div - 2 groups of 18 clubs
Lega Pro 2nd div - 3 groups of 18 clubs
CND - 9 groups of 18,20 and 21 clubs

Very good site you have there.
Do you know if the attendance given is the number of tickets sold (i.e. season ticket holders not attending are counted too) or the actual number of people in the stadium?

^^^^^^^^^^

Been to Italy numerous times. Fascinating place and people. Definately they are different up there.

Love the thing where Italians don't like to wear crash helmets with motor bikes because it says to the world, "I am not confident in my riding skills." So they don't wear 'em.

Same thing with seat belts in cars.

Also they break speed limits because it is liberating to be a scofflaw.

They are never on time because they don't like to be slaves to rules.

Great attitudes in life. We should all be part Italian. We'd be a lot happier. Everyone should live there for a while to get out of the Anglo-Saxon straight jacket.

What is bizarre is that Germany is only up the road and that lot are obsessed with everything being on time and organized. They cannot sleep at night if something is a minute out of step or disorganized.

Any wonder that Gerry has the most depressed people in Europe.

you have just described Greece, not italy.

you have just described Greece, not italy. He described whole southern Europe :)

Love the thing where Italians don't like to wear crash helmets with motor bikes because it says to the world, "I am not confident in my riding skills." So they don't wear 'em.

Yes, and all bikers living in northern Italy have no ear... C'mon bob, today's hi was 3° in Turin, we must wear crash helmets :lol:
I'm very confident in my riding skills, but I can't pay 2 fines every day just for the pleasure of freezing!

Italians football teams once were "no profit associations" owned by rich men like Agnelli or Berlusconi.
Today they are private "for profit" companies, fabrizio is right.

Relocating an italian football team to a different city? Maybe only our greek cousins can understand why this is really, really impossible. You know... Athens vs Spara vs Thebes. It would be like asking your worst enemy to marry the girl you love !

What is bizarre is that Germany is only up the road and that lot are obsessed with everything being on time and organized.

I have met so many italians who admire Germany for exactly that!

This is the problem with the internationalisation of the world, Italians are getting ideas that being on time and organized is the correct way of the world because American tv shows tell them.

Please, for heaven's sake Italy, maintain the anarchy!

Actually on building in Italy I saw on that show 'Grand Designs' how it works with building permits which is another example of how interesting Italy is. the host Kevin McCarra, actually went into see the town engineer(the fella who issues building certificates) and he was completely up front about it all and explained what it was all for. Watch the 'Tuscan Castle' episode if you want to see it for yourself.

It works along the lines of this(in Tuscany at least). Okay, you construct whatever you intend to build, it may well take you ten years to complete. Then the municipal council comes out to the site and says this is wrong, that is wrong, this needs to be altered and then issues you with a 'fine' on the various, 'planning infringements' you have 'broken'.

So, going by that rationale. You build your own McMansion somewhere in the hills and just pay the various 'fines' and you can build whatever the hell you feel like. Even a sports stadium.

Great incentive never to finish 'building'. You don't pay unless you finish. I think Greece has a similar setup, so you see loads of unfinished homes an extra floor that never gets built.

Incidently, on the riding motorbikes business. I was in Rome in 1997 for a while and had one. I asked the guy who rented me the motorbike if I need to wear one and he told me, you are a big man. You don't need one and it is only required if you crash. It makes you a better rider not wearing one because you are extra alert. Problem after spending the time in Italy I took time to 'come down' after breaking every road law imaginable. In Oz we are quite strict on things like helmets, stopping for red lights, driving the wrong way down one way streets etc.. In Italy it was like being a real life Grand Theft Auto rider.

Something I will always remember fondly from that trip is that I now have something in common with Ben Hur. We have both raced around Circus Maximus.

One question to Italian friends or anyone who has a good knowledge of Italian stadias. I had an idea so far that an artificial turf is laid in Sansiro because of lack of sunlight and wind to grow grass, but I heard in a football community of my country that for now, a natural turf is laid there. Is it true?

The pitch at the San Siro is natural.

Only to inform that www.stadiapostcards.com is now update with all the attendance statistics of last week!

One question to Italian friends or anyone who has a good knowledge of Italian stadias. I had an idea so far that an artificial turf is laid in Sansiro because of lack of sunlight and wind to grow grass, but I heard in a football community of my country that for now, a natural turf is laid there. Is it true?

Wind does not 'grow' grass. Air movement reduces the chances of fungal spore type diseases which are passed from plant to plant from developing. Sunlight does play a part in growing grass and as you point out, direct sunlight is dramatically reduced at pitch level in the environment of the san siro.
The san siro uses outdated pitch technology and methods as does real madrid which is extremely frustrating given they are two of the most important football stadia on the planet.

in 1997 it wasn't compulsory wearing helmet. Having said that, in some place in southern italy the police don't stop you if you don't wear it.

^^^^^^^^^^

Been to Italy numerous times. Fascinating place and people. Definately they are different up there.

Love the thing where Italians don't like to wear crash helmets with motor bikes because it says to the world, "I am not confident in my riding skills." So they don't wear 'em.

Same thing with seat belts in cars.

Also they break speed limits because it is liberating to be a scofflaw.

They are never on time because they don't like to be slaves to rules.

Great attitudes in life. We should all be part Italian. We'd be a lot happier. Everyone should live there for a while to get out of the Anglo-Saxon straight jacket.

What is bizarre is that Germany is only up the road and that lot are obsessed with everything being on time and organized. They cannot sleep at night if something is a minute out of step or disorganized.

Any wonder that Gerry has the most depressed people in Europe.

This world of stereotypes sounds like a fascinating place.

From my dates, I think that the all-time record attendance for a match in Italy was:

Napoli - Perugia 1-1
Serie A 1979-1980
89,365

Can be possible that some other matches, in Roma or Milano, can had 90,000+ but nothing found...

http://www.stadiapostcards.com
Click on british flag for english language
Every week a complete report of attendance statistics from Serie A to Lega Pro!

^^^^^^^^^^

Been to Italy numerous times. Fascinating place and people. Definately they are different up there.

Love the thing where Italians don't like to wear crash helmets with motor bikes because it says to the world, "I am not confident in my riding skills." So they don't wear 'em.

Same thing with seat belts in cars.

Also they break speed limits because it is liberating to be a scofflaw.

They are never on time because they don't like to be slaves to rules.

Great attitudes in life. We should all be part Italian. We'd be a lot happier. Everyone should live there for a while to get out of the Anglo-Saxon straight jacket.

What is bizarre is that Germany is only up the road and that lot are obsessed with everything being on time and organized. They cannot sleep at night if something is a minute out of step or disorganized.

Any wonder that Gerry has the most depressed people in Europe.

It is the mediterranean way of life......relax lifestyle :cheers:.North Europe sucks :puke:

It is the mediterranean way of life......relax lifestyle :cheers:.North Europe sucks :puke:It's not a way of life it's just a result of pure resoning and necessity.
For example:
In Italy crash helmets are simply just useless, because those italian motorcicles never run anyways.

Same with seat belts, when you have a crash in an italian car you're basically dead anyways with or without seatbelt. In an italian car only praying helps and that's why the italians are so religious and allmost all have a cross hanging in under the mirror the windshield.

And they all just break speed limits because their speedometers hardly ever work correctly. Italians guess speed they don't know it.

And because they don't have any decent watches they're also never on time.

But the italians so have one admirable quality. They have a wonderfull way of arranging themselves with all this. They simply just define it all as the "savoir vivre" :lol:

And the germans right up on the other side of the alps, they allways visit Italy in summer. And because they're all so shocked, they try as hard as they can to do better and get it all running propper on time and correctly. They'll do anything for not having to live in this italian chaos. One should know this fact and keep it in mind, otherwise the germans and their obsessive correctness are really very hard to understand. :)

Actually on building in Italy I saw on that show 'Grand Designs' how it works with building permits which is another example of how interesting Italy is. the host Kevin McCarra, actually went into see the town engineer(the fella who issues building certificates) and he was completely up front about it all and explained what it was all for. Watch the 'Tuscan Castle' episode if you want to see it for yourself.
It works along the lines of this(in Tuscany at least). Okay, you construct whatever you intend to build, it may well take you ten years to complete. Then the municipal council comes out to the site and says this is wrong, that is wrong, this needs to be altered and then issues you with a 'fine' on the various, 'planning infringements' you have 'broken'.
So, going by that rationale. You build your own McMansion somewhere in the hills and just pay the various 'fines' and you can build whatever the hell you feel like. Even a sports stadium.
Great incentive never to finish 'building'. You don't pay unless you finish. I think Greece has a similar setup, so you see loads of unfinished homes an extra floor that never gets built.


:uh: :lol:
Yep, They did not call it "Greco-Roman" civilisation for nothing...

:old::grouphug:

Northern Europeans need to relax more. They are too uptight. The Italian way of life needs to be more widespread because the Anglo/Germanic system obviously is flawed badly. Just look at the world's situation today.

# September 11 would have been solved by sending over Cicciolina or one of the girlfriends to deal with Osama. Make love not war, and that comes from the Pope!

# Banking would not have been a problem, because everyone would have spent everything in the first place and not been concerned with borrowing money for houses because they still live at home with mum and dad. Just build another floor on the existing family home.

# Car industry would be salvaged because the Italian style of driving involves a lot of accidents, relying on more car production! Motor-bike riders who bravely go without helmets, die off eventually solving the problem with over population.

# Smoking is okay and is widespread, thus reducing the total population of the world and therefore reducing the greenhouse issue due to less energy usage.

Italians have the answer for all!

# Car industry would be salvaged because the Italian style of driving involves a lot of accidents, relying on more car production! Motor-bike riders who bravely go without helmets, die off eventually solving the problem with over population.



You make me laugh. :lol: :lol:

Northern Europeans need to relax more. They are too uptight. The Italian way of life needs to be more widespread because the Anglo/Germanic system obviously is flawed badly. Just look at the world's situation today.

# Banking would not have been a problem, because everyone would have spent everything in the first place and not been concerned with borrowing money for houses because they still live at home with mum and dad. Just build another floor on the existing family home.


Italians have the answer for all!

It's funny cause it's true!

any new italian stadiums on the horizon?

any new italian stadiums on the horizon?


in florence.

60.000

http://www.gazzetta.it/Calcio/SerieA/Squadre/Fiorentina/Primo_Piano/2008/09/19/stadio.shtml
http://www.ansa.it/site/notizie/awnplus/calcio/news/2009-03-05_105340023.html

^^ but is it actually going ahead. From what i gather it's announced.

And one stadium other than juve is a disgrace! everyone is moving away from italy because they are letting the television ruin the game!!

Google translates the article dated Mar 5, 2009 like this.

Il nuovo stadio della Fiorentina potrebbe avere una capienza di 60 mila posti

=> The new stadium of Fiorentina could have a capacity of 60 thousand jobs

60 thousand jobs?????

i found a forum, which spoke about it, and it translated it as fans. It was a juventus forum where they were complaining that 40,000 is too small, and that it should be 50,000. SOme were saying Juventus should move to bologna or the south and they'd fll 80,000 every week. I find it hard to believe that it's that hard to get to Turin from the south, if they had TV rules like we did in the UK then they'd fil the stadium because they wouldn't have the choice of watching in a bar!!

any new italian stadiums on the horizon?

Turin is the only U/C

Then many ideas, many words but no facts.

Palermo, Cagliari, Firenze, Milan (Inter stadium), Genova (Sampdoria stadium)...ideas and words, no real facts.

Google translates the article dated Mar 5, 2009 like this.

Il nuovo stadio della Fiorentina potrebbe avere una capienza di 60 mila posti

=> The new stadium of Fiorentina could have a capacity of 60 thousand jobs

60 thousand jobs?????

New stadium of Fiorentina is stopped until to next election next june.

There is a problem in the location (Castello) where the stadium was thought in project phase.

Turin is the only U/C

Then many ideas, many words but no facts.

Palermo, Cagliari, Firenze, Milan (Inter stadium), Genova (Sampdoria stadium)...ideas and words, no real facts.

UEFA should force them, the champions league wouldn't miss italian clubs just like the european cup didn't miss english clubs. If you don't sort out your stadiums then no europe!!


Ideas are what is keeping pompey from capitalising, ideas need to be put in practice ASAP!

Problem is that the clubs do not own the stadiums.

^^ thats not a problem. If the clubs were really serious that wouldn't stop them. The clubs are money making something for nothing enterprises and that is wrong on so many levels!

^^ thats not a problem. If the clubs were really serious that wouldn't stop them. The clubs are money making something for nothing enterprises and that is wrong on so many levels!

Infact, you 're right.

The italian problem is that football societies aren't owner of their stadium is a problem if they want to renew the existent stadium, infact teams doesn't want to renew an old stadium, which the owner is the municipalit and where they pay a big rent.

But they have a lot of money, so they can built a new one, without problem.

Ok?

Infact, you 're right.

The italian problem is that football societies aren't owner of their stadium is a problem if they want to renew the existent stadium, infact teams doesn't want to renew an old stadium, which the owner is the municipalit and where they pay a big rent.

But they have a lot of money, so they can built a new one, without problem.

Ok?

so all we have to do is force them to spend the money then, simple!

How about some pics from Turin

^^ in the juventus thread

what i think is that stadium might be the catalyst, similar to how middlesbroughs stadium was the catalyst in england. Until then Derby, sunderland etc were just going to refurbish, but when they saw the financial success...

Hopefully though clubs wont build stadiums too small for themselves if they ever do. 30,000 for palermo?? in a city of 1 million is a joke!

^^
Having been to Sicily and to Palermo I can tell you that Palermo are huge. They are the Italian version of Newcastle, I was there shortly after they we're promoted and the whole city was painted Pink. Everywhere you went there were banners, flags, adverts, replica and fake shirts. That whole city and most of Sicily we're Palermo supporters, I have been all around Italy and not one team captured a cities undivided attention like Palermo. If they had a decent stadium and fans had a proper tradition of attending games I have no doubt they would be capable of getting 50,000+ on a regular basis regardless of how well they we're doing (well as long as they we're in Seria A). If I was a billionaire (I know pure fantasy) Palermo would be high up on my list of teams to buy because they have huge potential.

^^ Although i don't doubt Palermo's fanbase, i still will say that until Italy sorts out the television situation it won't happen.

Why go to watch Palermo vs crap team live when it is on telly for the same price, and you don't have to leave your home. That is the mentality at the moment. Stadium and TV are interchangeable, or so i have read.

Also did you go to Naples??

so all we have to do is force them to spend the money then, simple!

I agree with you.

^^
Having been to Sicily and to Palermo I can tell you that Palermo are huge. They are the Italian version of Newcastle, I was there shortly after they we're promoted and the whole city was painted Pink. Everywhere you went there were banners, flags, adverts, replica and fake shirts. That whole city and most of Sicily we're Palermo supporters, I have been all around Italy and not one team captured a cities undivided attention like Palermo. If they had a decent stadium and fans had a proper tradition of attending games I have no doubt they would be capable of getting 50,000+ on a regular basis regardless of how well they we're doing (well as long as they we're in Seria A). If I was a billionaire (I know pure fantasy) Palermo would be high up on my list of teams to buy because they have huge potential.

Yes, fan of Palermo are famouse for their passion...they 're medditerranian :lol:
But your vision of Palermo and its supporter is correct. Yes, but Zamparini, owner of Palermo, is thinking to realize a stadium not biggest than Renzo Barbera, but with 30.000 seats

any pics of the old genua project?
And which club is bigger / has got more fans.
Genua or Sampdoria.

^^ Although i don't doubt Palermo's fanbase, i still will say that until Italy sorts out the television situation it won't happen.

Why go to watch Palermo vs crap team live when it is on telly for the same price, and you don't have to leave your home. That is the mentality at the moment. Stadium and TV are interchangeable, or so i have read.

Also did you go to Naples??

No, for Palermo is different than Turin or other cities. Palermo fans go to stadium to support their team.

But you 're right, TV is transferring many fans from stadia to their armchair.

any pics of the old genua project?
And which club is bigger / has got more fans.
Genua or Sampdoria.

Although i am not in the know i'd guess samp, coz they won the league quite recently.

Would be interesting if there was a list of the biggest clubs in italy. The top 5 are well publicised, but who else below is big.

For me southern teams have more fans, like i remember when salernitana were in serie a the fans loved it!!

any pics of the old genua project?
And which club is bigger / has got more fans.
Genua or Sampdoria.

Yes be quite a second :lol: I have had a very busy day and I 'm too tired to find renderings of new Sampdoria stadium.

Genoa is older than Samp. Genoa born in 1893, Samp in 1946. In Genoa most of fans are for Genoa, for its history (9 national championship), in Liguria (region in which Genova is the main city) most of fans are for Samp.

Although i am not in the know i'd guess samp, coz they won the league quite recently.

Would be interesting if there was a list of the biggest clubs in italy. The top 5 are well publicised, but who else below is big.

For me southern teams have more fans, like i remember when salernitana were in serie a the fans loved it!!

1992.

Most of person in South Italy are fans for the team of their cities and are fans of Juventus, team of south italian. A person born in Palermo is probabily fan of Palermo and Juve, a person in Messina is fan of Messina and Juve.

In general, city that comes in serie A rarelly (Salernitana, Messina) has stadia full. But, see when Bari played in A, the stadium (fantastic San Nicola by Piano) was empty always. In general south supporters are more hot than nortern ones.

Juve hasn't stadium full, except against Inter, Milan, Roma, Fiorentina and Olimpico has 28.000 seats.

:D
http://www.europe-re.com/files/processed/00084800/84845_Sampdoria.Genua.ai_rgb1012x524.jpg

Foruminvest and football club Sampdoria plan a new stadium in Genova (IT)
Friday 25 May 2007
During a two hour presentation at the Italian Expo (EIRE) Foruminvest Italia together with the President of Sampdoria, Mr. Garonne, Gruppo Giacomazzi and Sig-Sports Investment Group presented a spectacular new football stadium with 34,150 seats for the football club Sampdoria (Serie A) and a shopping/leisure center of 50,000 m², which will be directly connected to the Genova Airport (Cristoforo Colombo).

Artist impression for the new Sampdoria stadium.Under the shopping center there will be a three floor parking with 3,500 places for passengers of the Airport and for the shopping/leisure center. Between the airport/shopping center and the football stadium another 3,500 parking places will be realized.

The location is unique because of the sea view and the harbor, which will be transformed into a luxurious harbor for pleasure boats.

After the project “Gran Sasso” in Teramo this project will be the second development of Foruminvest Italia with a football stadium.

The total investment will be approximately €250 million. The opening is planned for 2011.

1992.




i swear it was 1991. They played in the champions leage final in 1992 at wembley??

Most of person in South Italy are fans for the team of their cities and are fans of Juventus, team of south italian. A person born in Palermo is probabily fan of Palermo and Juve, a person in Messina is fan of Messina and Juve.

In general, city that comes in serie A rarelly (Salernitana, Messina) has stadia full. But, see when Bari played in A, the stadium (fantastic San Nicola by Piano) was empty always. In general south supporters are more hot than nortern ones.
I see your point.

On bari's stadium no wonder it is never full. It is an athletics stadium with bad views of the pitch, and it holds 58,000!!!



Juve hasn't stadium full, except against Inter, Milan, Roma, Fiorentina and Olimpico has 28.000 seats.

surely it's because the games are on TV, take them off TV and the ground is full

:D
http://www.europe-re.com/files/processed/00084800/84845_Sampdoria.Genua.ai_rgb1012x524.jpg

i like, i hope genoa stay at the marrassi but refurbish it.

i swear it was 1991. They played in the champions leage final in 1992 at wembley??



Yes, you 're right. :)

Hard day for me, I have been in building site for all day :)

:D
http://www.europe-re.com/files/processed/00084800/84845_Sampdoria.Genua.ai_rgb1012x524.jpg

Good job sercan.

On your left you can see the airport Cristoforo Colombo.

is the marrassi all seater?? Because it looks like on telly that it is terracing, or are the seats concrete benches??

is the marrassi all seater??

Yes.

^^
Having been to Sicily and to Palermo I can tell you that Palermo are huge. They are the Italian version of Newcastle, I was there shortly after they we're promoted and the whole city was painted Pink. Everywhere you went there were banners, flags, adverts, replica and fake shirts. That whole city and most of Sicily we're Palermo supporters, I have been all around Italy and not one team captured a cities undivided attention like Palermo. If they had a decent stadium and fans had a proper tradition of attending games I have no doubt they would be capable of getting 50,000+ on a regular basis regardless of how well they we're doing (well as long as they we're in Seria A). If I was a billionaire (I know pure fantasy) Palermo would be high up on my list of teams to buy because they have huge potential.

Unfortunately having a "proper tradition" of attending games doesn't happen overnight, tradition being the operative word. Newcastle with a smaller population than Palermo will consistently attract large crowds regardless of league status and opposition. Palermo will not attract 45 - 52k if they're playing Sienna on a wet Wednesday night whilst embroiled in a relegation scrap. The city may have been painted pink the season they were promoted but that was a moment in time, something to celebrate. That fanfare does not last or translate into bums on seats.

^^ Although i don't doubt Palermo's fanbase, i still will say that until Italy sorts out the television situation it won't happen.

Why go to watch Palermo vs crap team live when it is on telly for the same price, and you don't have to leave your home. That is the mentality at the moment. Stadium and TV are interchangeable, or so i have read.

Also did you go to Naples??

I agree with everything you say there. And yes I have been to Naples and it has to be said that there an awful lot of Juventus fans there in fact I would probably say that they are the most popular team in that city. I think Palermo has the most untapped potential of any team in Italy and possibly in Europe. I think like most of Italian football they need the investment in their infrastructure to become a major force.

It's shame what has happened to Italian football it used to be brilliant. The title race was awesome and the standard of football was top notch in the 80s and 90s. I can think of 10+ teams who have challenged for the title over those periods and I can think of seasons when there was 7 genuine contenders for the scuddeto think of Juventus, AC Milan, Inter Milan, AS Roma, Lazio, Fiorentina, Sampdoria, Parma, Verona, Napoli and so on. Those are some major teams from major cities other then Parma and that is a good thing because these teams have tradition and these cities have plenty of money and attraction that should and could attract some major investment into their football teams, but this will only happen if Italian football can get it’s act together and get organised.

At the moment Seria A and Italian football is slipping at a fast rate and it could soon be below France and Germany if nothing is done to stop the rot soon. There is a whole list of problems in Italian football that I could go through a huge list but for me the 2 biggest problems are TV and Infrastructure. England and many other countries have proven that safe modern stadiums are good at attracting fans to stadiums and keeping them safe, at the moment Italian stadium are not safe or of a good level I wouldn’t have a picnic in them let alone a major sporting event attracting thousands. And the way the TV contracting is run is a joke. They should take a leaf out of the way the Premier League runs itself. For me after England, Italy has the best product and most marketable league in Europe they just need some good clever business men to take over and completely re-write the way the league handles its business.

Unfortunately having a "proper tradition" of attending games doesn't happen overnight, tradition being the operative word. Newcastle with a smaller population than Palermo will consistently attract large crowds regardless of league status and opposition. Palermo will not attract 45 - 52k if they're playing Sienna on a wet Wednesday night whilst embroiled in a relegation scrap. The city may have been painted pink the season they were promoted but that was a moment in time, something to celebrate. That fanfare does not last or translate into bums on seats.

Very true but the same could be said about England in the 80s and early 90s all that is needed is the right type of product and it could be possible.

Italy should to have lesson by England like stadia.

There 12 stadia at least to destroy in Italy:

1) Bergamo
2) Brescia
3) Como
4) Piacenza
5) Empoli
6) Rimini
7) Siena
8) Vicenza
9) Reggio Calabria
10) Padova, l'Euganeo
11) Asoli Piceno
12) Il Partenio di Avellino

And many times doesn't import the age of the stadium, see e.g. Upton Park, wonderful and it is quite old.

Very true but the same could be said about England in the 80s and early 90s all that is needed is the right type of product and it could be possible.

Sunderland too.

Unfortunately having a "proper tradition" of attending games doesn't happen overnight, tradition being the operative word. Newcastle with a smaller population than Palermo will consistently attract large crowds regardless of league status and opposition. Palermo will not attract 45 - 52k if they're playing Sienna on a wet Wednesday night whilst embroiled in a relegation scrap. The city may have been painted pink the season they were promoted but that was a moment in time, something to celebrate. That fanfare does not last or translate into bums on seats.

Erm Newcastle who nver broke a 30,000 average in the 1980s and until st jame's was rebuilt hadn't averaged above 40,000 since 1955. Newcastle's fans are a myth.

The modern sell outs are part of a trend in modern english football, based around season tickets!!

Italy should to have lesson by England like stadia.

There 12 stadia at least to destroy in Italy:

1) Bergamo
2) Brescia
3) Como
4) Piacenza
5) Empoli
6) Rimini
7) Siena
8) Vicenza
9) Reggio Calabria
10) Padova, l'Euganeo
11) Asoli Piceno
12) Il Partenio di Avellino

And many times doesn't import the age of the stadium, see e.g. Upton Park, wonderful and it is quite old.


Thats a short list lol, should be longer

Upton park is modern, all the stands have been rebuilt except the chicken run, which was going to be, then they were relegated.

^^ I'm an optimistic boy.

And in England is there any stadia to demolish?

Maybe Cristal Palace one only.

I agree with everything you say there. And yes I have been to Naples and it has to be said that there an awful lot of Juventus fans there in fact I would probably say that they are the most popular team in that city. I think Palermo has the most untapped potential of any team in Italy and possibly in Europe. I think like most of Italian football they need the investment in their infrastructure to become a major force.

It's shame what has happened to Italian football it used to be brilliant. The title race was awesome and the standard of football was top notch in the 80s and 90s. I can think of 10+ teams who have challenged for the title over those periods and I can think of seasons when there was 7 genuine contenders for the scuddeto think of Juventus, AC Milan, Inter Milan, AS Roma, Lazio, Fiorentina, Sampdoria, Parma, Verona, Napoli and so on. Those are some major teams from major cities other then Parma and that is a good thing because these teams have tradition and these cities have plenty of money and attraction that should and could attract some major investment into their football teams, but this will only happen if Italian football can get it’s act together and get organised.

At the moment Seria A and Italian football is slipping at a fast rate and it could soon be below France and Germany if nothing is done to stop the rot soon. There is a whole list of problems in Italian football that I could go through a huge list but for me the 2 biggest problems are TV and Infrastructure. England and many other countries have proven that safe modern stadiums are good at attracting fans to stadiums and keeping them safe, at the moment Italian stadium are not safe or of a good level I wouldn’t have a picnic in them let alone a major sporting event attracting thousands. And the way the TV contracting is run is a joke. They should take a leaf out of the way the Premier League runs itself. For me after England, Italy has the best product and most marketable league in Europe they just need some good clever business men to take over and completely re-write the way the league handles its business.

agree massively

football italia was amazing back in the day. The thing is the league then wasn't awash with foreigners it was probably the same as it is today, except all the foreigners were top notch. Now foreigners have the choice of Spain and the glossy premier league as well.

I don't think the quality of seria A is poor, i watch a lot on the net and the games are good. The image of serie a is the problem. ugly empty stadiums, with maybe a running track.

The problem is the EU says that the way serie A sells it's rights is the best way and is competitive, they consider the premier league to be a cartel. That is the problem with applying european business law to sport. If the law stated you have to sell the rights collective the league would be stronger.

And the proliferation of football on telly is a disgrace, football on telly should be a treat and should be the best possible games, in a way you should earn the right to be televised. I mean Lecce vs siena what is that doing on television. European, 2-3 league games a week is perfect. Then it means people will be more likely to support their local team than sit at home and watch their subscription to Juventus. Yes Juventus might lose out in the short run, but in the long run it increases the strength of the league which increase potential profit etc

Italy has some massive clubs look at the averages from 25 years ago

83/84
1 SSC Napoli 55.590
2 AC Milan 53.136
3 AS Roma 52.793
4 SS Lazio 46.908
5 AC Fiorentina 45.723
6 Juventus FC 43.574
7 FC Internazionale 43.388
8 Udinese Calcio 41.349
9 AC Torino 31.946
10 FC Hellas Verona 31.238
11 UC Sampdoria 30.162
12 Genoa 1893 26.706
13 Avellino US 23.504
14 Catania Calcio 20.610
15 Ascoli Calcio 1898 19.326
16 Pisa Calcio 18.879

84/84
1 SSC Napoli 77.597
2 AC Milan 60.941
3 FC Internazionale 52.572
4 AS Roma 51.421
5 AC Fiorentina 42.360
6 Juventus FC 41.271
7 FC Hellas Verona 40.111
8 SS Lazio 38.544
9 AC Torino 37.328
10 Udinese Calcio 35.485
11 Atalanta Bergamasca Calcio 33.647
12 UC Sampdoria 32.544
13 Avellino US 26.407
14 Ascoli Calcio 1898 20.165
15 Como Calcio 16.329
16 Cremonese US 15.222

they haven't lost the fans, they just watch on telly instead!!

^^ I'm an optimistic boy.

And in England is there any stadia to demolish?

Maybe Cristal Palace one only.

Lots, Crystal place can just about redevelop. it depends whether u want a new stadium or if you want to redevelop on site! All down to space and ambition really

^^ I disagree with you. No lots.

Keep stadia not important, e.g. Vicarage Road or Loftus Road, or Craven Cottage are in well condition.

Let me jnow which stadia do you mean? :)

^^ I disagree with you. No lots.

Keep stadia not important, e.g. Vicarage Road or Loftus Road, or Craven Cottage are in well condition.

Let me jnow which stadia do you mean? :)

erm are you sure?

When watford played chelsea in the FA cup they moved there camera angle because it showed their west stand which is closed on safety grounds but they can't find the money to rebuild it. it would fit in, in serie A.

Loftus Road is Tiny. QPR need 30,000+. They are a big club, they can;t expand effectively on that site because they are completely surrounded by houses. And many of them are owned by the local council.

Craven cottage was to be demolished but it would cost too much, fulham are now upgrading piecemeil towards their 30,000+ target

Selhurst park is too small for palace in the prem. Yes last time they only averaged 23,000 but thats the problem with season tickets. They probs sold 20,000 but could've sold 30,000. The thing is when you haven't got a season ticket watching bolton at home is less appealing. hence why liverpool or spurs don't completely fill their grounds each week, it doesn't mean they wouldn't fill a bigger one.

But see, e.g.Craven Cottage, has all seat in good condition and outside is very particular with the red bricks. It is very particular, like is particular the location along Thames.

Watford has all the yellow and red seats in order. :)

The same for Q.P.R. stadium.

But see, e.g.Craven Cottage, has all seat in good condition and outside is very particular with the red bricks. It is very particular, like is particular the location along Thames.

Watford has all the yellow and red seats in order. :)

The same for Q.P.R. stadium.

Still not good enough if they want to compete. asthetics aren't everything

^^
I personally think Craven Cottage is brilliant and if you walk around you can see that they have developed it very cleverly. They have got some very good hospitality areas around the stadium and they have used the stadiums design and history to their maximum. The stadiums capacity has risen bit by bit and it has been done for a very cheap price as far as I’m aware and with that in mind I have to say they have done a very good job. The only things I would do, would be to firstly build a new Riverside stand which would be 2-3,000 bigger and have more suites and exec seating I doubt there is enough room to do this though and the other thing I would do is re-roof the ends and get rid of the pillars which block the view. Other then that it is fine and is definitely up to Premier League standards.

^^
I personally think Craven Cottage is brilliant and if you walk around you can see that they have developed it very cleverly. They have got some very good hospitality areas around the stadium and they have used the stadiums design and history to their maximum. The stadiums capacity has risen bit by bit and it has been done for a very cheap price as far as I’m aware and with that in mind I have to say they have done a very good job. The only things I would do, would be to firstly build a new Riverside stand which would be 2-3,000 bigger and have more suites and exec seating I doubt there is enough room to do this though and the other thing I would do is re-roof the ends and get rid of the pillars which block the view. Other then that it is fine and is definitely up to Premier League standards.

tbf i wasn't referring to craven cottage, in my previous post i didn't castigate it.

The problem is the EU says that the way serie A sells it's rights is the best way and is competitive, they consider the premier league to be a cartel. That is the problem with applying european business law to sport. If the law stated you have to sell the rights collective the league would be stronger. I thought they began to gravitate towards that model, though. Didn't the Serie A recently pool their international rights?
they haven't lost the fans, they just watch on telly instead!! Might also be a small matter of the stadium conditions and the (from all appearances) minimalist attempts at crowd control. I'm all for standing and cheering, but from the States it seems the Italians are among the leaders in modern hooliganism.

I thought they began to gravitate towards that model, though. Didn't the Serie A recently pool their international rights?

I'm unsure, thats a massive step in the right direction if so

Might also be a small matter of the stadium conditions and the (from all appearances) minimalist attempts at crowd control. I'm all for standing and cheering, but from the States it seems the Italians are among the leaders in modern hooliganism.

Yeah but people turn up for derbys when the risk of violence is probably at it's highest so i don't really buy that.

It was the same in england during the 70s, when hooliganism was at it's peak, crowds were still large. It wasn't until the mid 80s that the reputation came, when it was declining and was outside the grounds, but Derby's still got the bumper attendances.

A couple of quotes from the book the italian job by gabriele marcotti and gianluca vialli

"when fans watch football on television, they are drawn to the big clubs, not the smaller ones"

"too many people view a match on television as an alternative to the stadium experience, which hurts attendance figures"

and a quote from fabio capello from the same book

"It's obvious we Italians are a country of Lazy people who can only criticize... It's the same with football, it's too hot, it's too cold, it's too far... so they sit and watch it on television"

Erm Newcastle who nver broke a 30,000 average in the 1980s and until st jame's was rebuilt hadn't averaged above 40,000 since 1955. Newcastle's fans are a myth.

The modern sell outs are part of a trend in modern english football, based around season tickets!!

If your mind allows you transpose Palermo to 80's England and the situation Newcastle found themselves in, imagine (again if possible) a reduction in Palermo's metro population to that of Newcastles and then try and fathom which club you feel would get more bums on seats. Comparisons can only be really made if 2 clubs find themselves in similar circumstance at the same moment in time.
At the moment I'm trying to imagine 10 of Newcastles mythical supporters turning up on your doorstep.

If your mind allows you transpose Palermo to 80's England and the situation Newcastle found themselves in, imagine (again if possible) a reduction in Palermo's metro population to that of Newcastles

This isn't a camparison of Newcastle and Palermo, it is whether Newcastle have the great fans that everyone thinks

For the record Newcastle's metro population (Tyne and wear) is well over 1 million people, a larger figure to Palermo's. And Palermo is losing it's city population whislt Newcastle is gaining.

Newcastle lost population just like near enough every major town/city in the country. London lost nearly 2 million people from WW2 until 1981. The fact is Newcastle's crowds were never that great, just good.

and then try and fathom which club you feel would get more bums on seats. Comparisons can only be really made if 2 clubs find themselves in similar circumstance at the same moment in time.

I never said Palermo were bigger than Newcastle, i said that Newcastle's mythical status of having loyal fans, is just that, a myth. They turned up like everyone else before all seaters, in fluctuations, and they turn up like everyone else now, in droves.

They are no different, there is just something Romantic about these funny accented people who say toon and dress like barcodes!

At the moment I'm trying to imagine 10 of Newcastles mythical supporters turning up on your doorstep.

LOL good for you!

I think we can all trawl through websites until we find a site which backs up our argument (Palermo v Newcastle population). No one is suggesting Newcastle deserve mythical status, we'll reserve that for dragons, a golden fleece and the cyclops, the suggestion is that as of this moment in time and the period from say 1993 onwards they are displaying a very loyal and vocal backing far greater than their achievements or population suggests. There are periods in time when every football team wherever they are in the world have had peaks and troughs as regards following. This can be down to any number of factors. Newcastle may not have broken 30k or 40k during period X but quite clearly now they are maximising their potential as far as fan base.
Please note as of now no replies to commence with "erm" or "I didn't say that".

^^ Newcastle are showing the potential that more or less every other club has shown during this same period. Arsenal were the second best supported side in 1994/95 despite coming 12th, do we deserve a medal?

Newcastle fans are normal, there support is normal and is no better or worse than a club like Tottenham. To make an example of them having great loyal fans is wrong, because many clubs do also, Newcastle aren't special in any way!

is the marrassi all seater??
There are no standing places in Italian stadiums

Anyway averagely seats are of old conception and crappy

^^ Newcastle are showing the potential that more or less every other club has shown during this same period. Arsenal were the second best supported side in 1994/95 despite coming 12th, do we deserve a medal?

Newcastle fans are normal, there support is normal and is no better or worse than a club like Tottenham. To make an example of them having great loyal fans is wrong, because many clubs do also, Newcastle aren't special in any way!

Why pick Tottenham and not a club like Wigan, Bolton or Blackburn? Answer, because Tottenham's support and following is more akin to Newcastle's. Personally I don't believe you deserve a medal for coming 12th whilst having the 2nd best support in the league but be my guest if you wish to have one minted. It's all most de ja vu, Arsenal averaging the 2nd best support in the Premiership all the while a mid-table team! I see Arsenal have issued an advice booklet for their fans travelling to Rome so they don't get picked on by the locals. Perhaps they could issue a series of booklets for fans

Singing in 3 easy steps
Beginners guide to finding your seat on time
Leaving early the Arsenal way

Why pick Tottenham and not a club like Wigan, Bolton or Blackburn? Answer, because Tottenham's support and following is more akin to Newcastle's.

You know full well why i named wigan, blackburn or bolton as they are the worst supported clubs in the league. (Portsmouth fill their ground and have high demand). Newcastle are no different from the vast majority of the prem in that they will near always fill their stadium

Personally I don't believe you deserve a medal for coming 12th whilst having the 2nd best support in the league but be my guest if you wish to have one minted.

you're the one harping on about newcastles great support despite them being mid table. I was merely offering other examples to show you Newcastle are nothing special!

I see Arsenal have issued an advice booklet for their fans travelling to Rome so they don't get picked on by the locals.


Wow, thats tough. Your really think the booklet is printed for Arsenals firm?! You are making a fool out of yourself mate.

Italians are known for picking on scarfers and barmys. They don't shy away from using their knifes either. Sounds to you like it's something to be proud of. :ohno:


Singing in 3 easy steps
Beginners guide to finding your seat on time
Leaving early the Arsenal way

All three things (to some extent) come with fame and success. It's the same at Chelsea, Man Utd and Liverpool (except Champions League at Anfield). Arsenals stadium is too small and the tickets are too expensive leaving a lot of hardcore supporters scattered in the pubs around Holloway and the other Arsenal areas. There are still more than a few hardcore supporters at Ashburton Grove but certainly not at the level it could be at with better conditions.

^^well said

[QUOTE=bigbossman;33400860]You know full well why i named wigan, blackburn or bolton as they are the worst supported clubs in the league.

You didn't name them, I did. It's all in the booklet issued with this posting.

Wow, thats tough. Your really think the booklet is printed for Arsenals firm?! You are making a fool out of yourself mate.

Italians are known for picking on scarfers and barmys. They don't shy away from using their knifes either. Sounds to you like it's something to be proud of. :ohno:



All three things (to some extent) come with fame and success. It's the same at Chelsea, Man Utd and Liverpool (except Champions League at Anfield). Arsenals stadium is too small and the tickets are too expensive leaving a lot of hardcore supporters scattered in the pubs around Holloway and the other Arsenal areas. There are still more than a few hardcore supporters at Ashburton Grove but certainly not at the level it could be at with better conditions.

But it is more evident at Arsenal. Most Italian ultras are handy with knives but reports suggest most of the stab wounds tend to be in the backside suggesting a rather cowardly approach.

You know full well why i named wigan, blackburn or bolton as they are the worst supported clubs in the league.

You didn't name them, I did. It's all in the booklet issued with this posting.

you never heard of a typo...? class filled individual

But it is more evident at Arsenal. Most Italian ultras are handy with knives but reports suggest most of the stab wounds tend to be in the backside suggesting a rather cowardly approach.

I think this is a form of racism.

I think this is a form of racism.

maybe not racist, but massively mis informed!!

There are no standing places in Italian stadiums

Anyway averagely seats are of old conception and crappy

It doesn't look like they actually have seats though, is it concrete benches?? Because surely that's just terracing in disguise

[QUOTE=bumdingo;33403246]

you never heard of a typo...? class filled individual

Ah, the snooty snobbery of a typical Arsenal supporter looking down his nose at the working class. I have heard of a Typo, is that the guy that plays at the back for Sampdoria? Why should we forgive your errors when you are so quick to jump on everyone elses?

Ah, the snooty snobbery of a typical Arsenal supporter looking down his nose at the working class. I have heard of a Typo, is that the guy that plays at the back for Sampdoria? Why should we forgive your errors when you are so quick to jump on everyone elses?

1. Your presumptions of my social class are wide off the mark and highlight your ignorance

2. Social class doesn't dictate the level of class we as humans display.

3. Arsenal have more working class fans than newcastle have fans

4. There is an error where you make a genuine mistake, and there is an error where you post incorrect information. My error was the former, i "jump" on the latter.

Its about Italy and stadiums / arenas ;)

^^ I make you right, any news on Milan/Inter the san siro has got to go!! and ground sharing is a no no!!

It is the mediterranean way of life......relax lifestyle :cheers:.North Europe sucks :puke:

LMAO.
Read more than one comparison study about life satisfaction in different countries. Guess what : people in Northern Europe seem to have more joy in live then their "always laughing" southern neighbours.
Even more remarkable : Southern Europeans who migrated to countries with a more Northern European influence, like the US, Australia or Germany had higher life satisfaction then the people still living in their native country....
So much for your mediterranean way of live.

P.S. I still love to pass my hollidays in Southern Europe, but go living there...no thanks.

Can somebody tell me what's the relation between mr. Crocodile Dundee's opinion about Italy and Southern Europe as a whole and a stadium? open up a new thread in the DLM to fill with prejudice and spam. here it's all about a place where people go to see football matches.

[QUOTE=bigbossman;33406058]1. Your presumptions of my social class are wide off the mark and highlight your ignorance

2. Social class doesn't dictate the level of class we as humans display.

3. Arsenal have more working class fans than newcastle have fans

And my big brother is bigger than your big brother

And my big brother is bigger than your big brother

good for you and good for him!

Its about Italy and stadiums / arenas ;)

BTW Does anyone have photos of stadium in Trieste?

BTW Does anyone have photos of stadium in Trieste?

Triestina
http://www.fussballtempel.net/uefa/ITA/Nereo_Rocco.jpg
http://www.triestinacalcio.com/images/nereo4.jpg

thanks a lot :cheers1:

# Smoking is okay and is widespread, thus reducing the total population of the world and therefore reducing the greenhouse issue due to less energy usage.


Lulz. Italy is one of the strictest places in the world when it comes to smoking. A total ban in public areas has been in place for years. Enough with stereotyping, let's get back to the topic, shall we.

Inter looks like it has the league in the bag, they should get that second star on their uniforms within the next 3 or 4 seasons.

Any word on Inter's own stadium?

Will the new Juventus stadium host 6 Nations rugby?

p.s. I think it is laughable to use 'strict', 'laws' and 'Italy' in the one sentence. It is as close to organized mayhem as you are going to get in a functional society. And may it long stay that way.

I really like Triestina's stadium.

^^ yeah it's a gem, hopefully it will be in serie a next season!

Just shows what could and can be done!

The reality in Italy and the rest of the world is that matchday attendances will only get smaller as people can dial up any match on pay-per-view or through the internet.

The days of building 60k stadia are finished.

Really is it that bad a thing? You might not get 50 or 60k there on matchdays, but you get 20 or 30 million watching matches live worldwide, particularly in Italy. I watch Italian matches late on Sunday nights over the internet as I doze off to sleep in my bed on a laptop.

It is nice to attend the stadium, but TV is getting to the point where I think it is almost better. Especially with HD widescreen.

The stadium experience is expensive(how much does is cost for a glass of beer for instance?), time consuming and when your team is being beaten a thoroughly painful time. The big thing too is you are far more informed and knowledgable on the game for watching it on the box. You get this myopic view when you attend games blinded by your one-eyed-ness for your own team.

It opens your eyes. And another thing, the FIFA rule on no tv replays in stadiums is ridiculous. That needs to be changed. As a far you pay good money to go and you don't see all the angles.

Some years ago Adriano Galliani said "here in Schalke they sell 30,000 l / match. At the San Siro you can't get a glas of water" :D

^^^^^^^^^^

I remember placing a newspaper on my seat at San Siro because the seats were disgustingly filthy. Don't think they ever clean the place.

They need to have guys walking around the crowd with 'kegs on legs' selling beer and food. They are losing a lot of income.

They should get an outsider from Australia or America to become the club's GM to teach the Italians, how to do it better!

The reality in Italy and the rest of the world is that matchday attendances will only get smaller as people can dial up any match on pay-per-view or through the internet.

Thats why in England we ban the televising of saturday games, so people go to matches

The days of building 60k stadia are finished.

In your world maybe, but everywhere else they are still being built.

Really is it that bad a thing?

Yes

You might not get 50 or 60k there on matchdays, but you get 20 or 30 million watching matches live worldwide, particularly in Italy.

Yeah but that's not what the game is about.

I watch Italian matches late on Sunday nights over the internet as I doze off to sleep in my bed on a laptop.

Thats you in oz, 1000s of miles away from the action

It is nice to attend the stadium, but TV is getting to the point where I think it is almost better. Especially with HD widescreen.

WTF, are you serious. Nothing will ever beat going to a game. The experience is unrivalled. Watching it on telly is for neutrals, people who can't get to the game and people with no real passion. It is no coincidence that for big games and big teams there are waiting lists of 10s of 1000s because every football fan realises that live is the shit, not televised, even with HD no one would swap that for live football.

The stadium experience is expensive(how much does is cost for a glass of beer for instance?),

That's a problem of the modern game which needs to be addressed, but since when has expense been a major factor.

time consuming and when your team is being beaten a thoroughly painful time.

real fans stick it out and make time, everything you are coming up with sounds like excuses for yourself.

The big thing too is you are far more informed and knowledgable on the game for watching it on the box. You get this myopic view when you attend games blinded by your one-eyed-ness for your own team.

and there is nothing at all wrong with that. You watch your local team live, then when they aren't playing or are away you can watch other teams on telly or watch the highlights later that evening.

It opens your eyes. And another thing, the FIFA rule on no tv replays in stadiums is ridiculous. That needs to be changed. As a far you pay good money to go and you don't see all the angles.

Who cares if you don't see replays live in the stadium, are you sure you're a football fan??

^^^^^^^^^^

I remember placing a newspaper on my seat at San Siro because the seats were disgustingly filthy. Don't think they ever clean the place.

They need to have guys walking around the crowd with 'kegs on legs' selling beer and food. They are losing a lot of income.

They should get an outsider from Australia or America to become the club's GM to teach the Italians, how to do it better!

Football doesn't need to shift that far to attract the weaker willed person to the stadium. Germany and England have proved this.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You can get away with selling shit product and disenfranchise people in places like England and Germany because they have MASSIVE populations crammed into small areas. So there are lines of suckers to follow the current pissed off ones.

In sparsely populated countries you have to supply a great experience and real value or people won't be back. I wouldn't pay 50 quid a throw to regularly attend EPL matches for instance. You'd have to be a real thickie to pay that. They will get a big backlash sooner or later. Particularly for leagues that are non-contests with the results practically predetermined.

It isn't about the fan in Europe, trust me on that. I have seen it from both sides of the world. It is too elitist over there. But I suppose you must get used to that in all walks of life. The way it is for the serfdom.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You can get away with selling shit product and disenfranchise people in places like England and Germany because they have MASSIVE populations crammed into small areas. So there are lines of suckers to follow the current pissed off ones.

Italy isn't a sparsely populated country though, Italy has just saccumbed to TV more than anywhere else.

In sparsely populated countries you have to supply a great experience and real value or people won't be back. I wouldn't pay 50 quid a throw to regularly attend EPL matches for instance. You'd have to be a real thickie to pay that. They will get a big backlash sooner or later. Particularly for leagues that are non-contests with the results practically predetermined.

It's what i steadily maintain, the football fan isn't about entertainment, they are about competitiveness. No one wants to see the best team in the world shit on a league. They want to see a load of good teams, giving each other good close games every week.

The backlash will come not for a while though... the only way to prevent is to bring back terracing but the powers that be wont listen.

It isn't about the fan in Europe, trust me on that. I have seen it from both sides of the world. It is too elitist over there. But I suppose you must get used to that in all walks of life. The way it is for the serfdom.

Yeah, the working man is out of touch with the game they built. And it's a working man they can thank for it jean-marc bosman. He's created this game, him, Murdoch and berlusconi!

The Italian mentality and priorities are different to the British/German. They watch the matches on tv and stay and make love to their British or German mistresses whose boyfriends are at a football match! But they keep an eye on the television showing the football of course, so they know when they need to make their escape.

This is the Italian way!

p.s. to keep it topical, well done Inter to maintain it's 7 point gap on Juventus. After winning the 17th championship this season it is on course at the end of the 2011/12 season that Inter will achieve a second star on the shirt. Maybe at the end of the next decade will it surpass Juventus with 3 stars.

I want to ask you about Palasport Olimpico capacity.According to wikipedia its capacity is 12,350 seats (for ice hockey I guess), but according to Eurocup F8 site - http://www.eurocupbasketball.com/item/45930 - its basketball capacity is only 6880 seats.Which statement is true?

^^ the first is the maximum. but it depends on the specific event (e.g concerts or sport events). the available seats can be changed

^^But I've found other wiki's article
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_hockey_at_the_2006_Winter_Olympics_match_stats_(men) - where you can find that the biggest attendance at Winter Olympic Games 2006 was more than 9000 so basketball capacity should be atleast 9000!

PS.I know that wiki is not a good source (if it is a source) but I've confirmed this numbers at other websites like this http://www.boston.com/sports/other_sports/olympics/articles/2006/02/27/swedes_set_standard/

The Italian mentality and priorities are different to the British/German. They watch the matches on tv and stay and make love to their British or German mistresses whose boyfriends are at a football match! But they keep an eye on the television showing the football of course, so they know when they need to make their escape.

This is the Italian way!

p.s. to keep it topical, well done Inter to maintain it's 7 point gap on Juventus. After winning the 17th championship this season it is on course at the end of the 2011/12 season that Inter will achieve a second star on the shirt. Maybe at the end of the next decade will it surpass Juventus with 3 stars.

O_o what th f*** ??!!!

[QUOTE=BobDaBuilder;33880130]^^^^^^^^^^



They need to have guys walking around the crowd with 'kegs on legs' selling beer and food. They are losing a lot of income.

Italian's can't handle their beer

If they don't serve beer, I guess they can save the need of having toilets.

^^ i disagree with that

Fiorentina, verona, bologna and cagliari aren't. They were being filled as recently as 10 years ago.

Milan have filled the san siro week in week out before, and inter have come close, Roma when they won the scudetto averaged 67,000 but for there final game it said the crowd was 60,000 when it clearly wasn't as the stadium was rammed and fans were spilling onto the pitch.

Like i said it's television, having all games available live kills the need to go to matches at the stadium especially ones not against marquee opposition.

?? i don't get your point, you changed the subject...

OK, but take a look at the average attendances of serie A for 2008/2009 :Anyway it's not only due to live games on TV (I saw audiences and they aren't so big). The main reasons, IMO, are the very dilapidated state of stadiums and security troubles, that's why people (especially families) stay at home.It was pretty much the same stadia 15 years ago. A little wear and tear isn't gonna stop someone from going to the game. But when you have a stressless, 50 inch tv and cold beer two feet from you it's not easy to get sold on going to games any more.

A little wear and tear isn't gonna stop someone from going to the game.

I'm not so sure !

For many stadiums in Italy it's more than "a little wear and tear", this is the same problem with the Stade Vélodrome in Marseille (rebuilt in 1998) and most of stadiums in Italy have useless athletics tracks.

:ohno:
http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/9191/motorinogiudallacurvadi.jpg


Stadio San Paolo
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/2821/sanpaolo2.jpg

Stadio Sant'Elia
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/953/2255729617d815514995.jpg

Siena
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/9113/2369081442bfbc14d11eo.jpg

Catania
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/2029/276262696870edcd54b7.jpg

Palermo
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/1152/renzobarbera3.jpg

Even Stadio San Filippo, which is new, looks old...
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/2576/sanfilippo4.jpg

after pics shown here i realize how SAD are italian stadiums... :(
something must be done for it..

Stadio Sant'Elia has got an inner stadium built inside the outer stadium! Shows how stupid & useless athletic tracks are in soccer stadiums. And if I'm not mistaken this stadium was built for Italia '90. What a waste!

^^no it was built after they won serie a in 1970, i think it was just refurbished for italia 90

^^ Indeed !

^^no it was built after they won serie a in 1970, i think it was just refurbished for italia 90

Was built in 70 's but refurbished not for Italia 90 but around 2002 or 2003.

But there is more than an idea to realize a new stadium in Cagliari.

At the moment the two more advanced projects (after Juventus one) are Siena and Palermo.

Stadio Sant' Elia in Cagliari

Built: 1970

Refurbished in 2002

^^ no i don't mean when they added the stands over the running track, i mean refurbished for the tournament as he mentioned italia 90.

If the Serie A would imply some of the economic changes like the Premier Leauge and start building better stadiums, it would once again become the best leauge in the world in no time.

^^ that would be awful the premier league is built on sand! The Bundesliga route is the way to go!!

Inspired by the Circus Maximus of ancient Rome, the master plan developed by the renowned Spanish architect has a long avenue framed by two rows of cypresses. At both ends of the avenue, along the two times the Roman circus, there are two structures intended to become the characteristic elements of the new university sports complex in the capital: the new City of Sport, and also the new home rector of the University of Tor Vergata.

The design of the sports complex is composed of two identical "fans" of concrete, steel and metal, respectively, which will host the forums for Palasport with 15 thousand spectators and Palanuoto with places for people 4mila. These two volumes which, while communicating with each other, will remain independent so that we can also host several events scheduled during the same period.
Inside the complex will also gymnasiums, laboratories, classrooms for training, a fitness center and a rehabilitation center, and offices and shops.
Outside, it is planned the opening of an outdoor pool.


Masterplan

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/9628/37131zr7.jpg

http://www.urbanfile.it/public/Alieno/194511_sport-esterne21174800.jpg

http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/6471/37137yq6.jpg

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/9647/37132vz7.jpg

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/4085/37136te3.jpg

http://www.urbanfile.it/public/Alieno/194221_sport-ansa100212282103175202_big.jpg

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/3898/esterne2117475921031753sw1.jpg

http://www.urbanfile.it/public/Alieno/194615_sport-omniroma10021367210.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/21bj9y1.jpg


Status

http://i39.tinypic.com/dbr2o9.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/108hd06.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/j9smis.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3617/3440535881_8dfeb98b20_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3379/3441318726_cd751739e3_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3050/3441321614_389c5b5a7b_b.jpg

The arena looks like a brazilian stadium

Great design :)

i dont like this at all, in basketball arena court is too far away from stands, and roof is too high, if there is video-cube, it will look bad

beatiful arena .. is totaly different a NBA's arena

i dont like this at all, in basketball arena court is too far away from stands, and roof is too high, if there is video-cube, it will look bad

lets wait and see it could be interesting in real life.

Rome just got itself another indoor arena with this major development.

interesting.

Innovative design. What's the tower like in the whole plan? What use, residential?

I don't know what to think about this. It seems a bit "extravaganze", expensive for what it actually is, a basketballfield (can probably be changed to badminton or whatever) and a swimming pool. I don't think the atmosphere will be good either.
Purely architectural it's impressive but I don't know if it will worth the money. It never is bad ofc if new sport arena's are constructed so let's say I'm slighty positive about this but let's wait and see till it's finished.

i dont like this at all, in basketball arena court is too far away from stands, and roof is too high, if there is video-cube, it will look bad

Yep, if they want to install a cube-screen would look ugly. But, the stands don't look bad, because they can fulfill the gap with vip seats, the benches, etc.

The design is good imho.

Innovative design. What's the tower like in the whole plan? What use, residential?

As far as I know university office

expensive for what it actually is, a basketballfield (can probably be changed to badminton or whatever)


is that a sport? :lol:

Innovative design. What's the tower like in the whole plan? What use, residential?
The City of Sport belongs to the University of Rome, the tower will be the location of the university rector, while the buildings around the park, are the residences for students or athletes.

Circus Maximum of Ancient Rome
http://www.sesterzio.eu/rovesci/foto/Plastico_circo.jpg

This project looks like the 'Esplanada dos Ministérios' in Brasilia... :lol:

http://www.forte.jor.br/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/esplanada-dos-ministerios.jpg

Beautiful !!

How much will be the capacity of the arena for basketball ?

^^
Should be 15.000 seats

Designer: Arata Isozaki
Status: under construction
End of activities: 2009

http://www.arup.com/_assets/_img/image5246.jpg

The structure is part of a large area dedicated to sport, in the renewed framework for military training: the Palasport Olimpico (two steps), the Olympic Stadium and the newly renovated pool "Stadium."


Torino will return soon to have a place to practice swimming and water polo at the highest level. A structure suitable for hosting of international events.
The pool is located near the Olympic stadium, which Arup has Archa designed by Arata Isozaki.

Deleted the old "Olympic" to make room for PalaOlimpico, will be the area upon which stood the football-Combi-Callegaris Brand to host the future Palace of swimming.

The building comprises two 50 m pools: an Olympic size with seating for 1200 spectators seats, one for training and a basement car park on two levels with 210 parking spaces.

The building is on via Philadelphia as a simple volume clad in stainless steel panels and a huge glass wall 6 meters high and protected by a roof.
The coverage area of approximately 3300 sqm with dimensions of 64.80 m in width and 50 m in depth, is composed of a single frame and steel mesh surface with slabs shaped modular aluminum properly insulated.
The new PalaNuoto will be characterized by advanced techniques, and the choice to break with the traditional format of pool place closed to the outside, through the use of large areas of external glazing. The single-sided via Philadelphia to measure over 380 square meters in total, continues to a height of 5.5 meters.
The building has a cover with a bump of 16, but North, with steel structure and facade structural glass rod. The pools have a system for ozone treatment which allows an effective antibacterial treatment.

http://www.comune.torino.it/ucstampa/conferenze/2003/palnuoto2.jpg


STATUS

http://i43.tinypic.com/2q1xyk0.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/npj5kx.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/znons8.jpg

http://www.sportmediaset.it/bin/6.$plit/C_27_photogallery_1468_GroupPhotogallery_listphoto_itemPhoto_0_immagine.jpg

hoPsUO_wDBI

British blow as Bernie Ecclestone eyes Rome
Caroline Reid and Christian Sylt
02.06.09

A Formula One race through the streets of Rome has come a step closer to reality, increasing fears that it could shunt the stricken British Grand Prix off the sport's calendar.

The possibility of an F1 race in the Italian capital has been speculated about for months with feasibility studies believed to have been carried out. Giving weight to this speculation, Standard Sport has learned that F1 boss Bernie Ecclestone has applied for a pan-European trademark for the title 'Formula 1 Gran Premio di Roma'.

It is the first time since the 1980s the name of a city has been included in the title of a Grand Prix and the Rome race will accompany the Italian Grand Prix in Monza on F1's calendar. The trademark application was filed last month and is a crucial step in staging the event.

It is believed that the race will be run on a 4.6-kilometre circuit through the streets of the financial district south-west of the ancient heart of Rome. The area is ideal to host a Grand Prix as its streets were widened to accommodate heavy traffic in the 1940s.

Holding an F1 race in Rome was the dream of the late Enzo Ferrari, founder of the eponymous car company and the inaugural Rome race is expected to be held in 2011, 23 years after his death. Its inclusion in F1 increases the likelihood Britain will lose its Grand Prix.

The race in this country is due to move from Silverstone to Donington next year but this is now in question after a key financial backer reportedly pulled out of the project leaving a hole in its £100million budget.

Some updates about new italian basketball arenas

Biella Arena (6,000 s)
Biella

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/3622/img2413b.th.jpg (http://img264.imageshack.us/i/img2413b.jpg/)http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/677/img2385d.th.jpg (http://img25.imageshack.us/i/img2385d.jpg/)




Futurshow Station
Bologna
The Malaguti Arena of Bologna is under renovation works; the capacity should boost up from 8.600 to 10-11.000

http://www.futurshowstation.com/images/stories/t1---architectural-and-volumetric-footprintb.jpg

http://www.futurshowstation.com/images/stories/t2--site-planb.jpg

http://www.futurshowstation.com/images/stories/t4---first-loor-and-section-bbb.jpg

http://www.futurshowstation.com/images/stories/t8---west-hall-and-references-viewsb.jpg

http://www.futurshowstation.com/images/stories/t10---railway-station-viewsb.jpg

http://www.futurshowstation.com/images/stories/t14---futurshow-station-3d_1-basket_2.jpg

Actual
http://www.futurshowstation.com/images/morfeoshow/come___-3706/big/230_allestimentobasket.jpg

http://www.futurshowstation.com/images/morfeoshow/eventi_sport-3524/big/06_ledwall_1956.jpg

http://www.futurshowstation.com/images/morfeoshow/eventi_sport-3524/big/08_basket.jpg

http://www.futurshowstation.com/images/morfeoshow/eventi_sport-3524/big/07_cheerleader_.jpg

Guys, maybe so pics from the CL final match at Stadio Olimpico:D.

That does not look good

That does not look good

What ?

New 7.300 seats arena for Cantù (north of Milan)

http://europaconcorsi.com/projects/92361-Nuovo-Palazzetto-dello-Sport-a-Cant-/images

Approved and ready for 2010

New stadiums are rumoured to be built in Bologna, Cagliari, Florence, Genoa, Naples, and Palermo.

Cagliari, Florence, Palermo, Genoa, bergamo ;)

Are there any new football stadiums that Italy are planning to build?

All projects for new stadia in Italy...some of them are old, some were published in the last days, the whole situation is finally changing.

Cagliari:
http://static.blogo.it/calcioblog/caralis-arena-il-nuovo-stadio-del-cagliari/big_stadiocagliari01.jpeg

http://static.blogo.it/calcioblog/caralis-arena-il-nuovo-stadio-del-cagliari/big_stadiocagliari02.jpeg

http://static.blogo.it/calcioblog/caralis-arena-il-nuovo-stadio-del-cagliari/big_stadiocagliari03.jpeg

http://static.blogo.it/calcioblog/caralis-arena-il-nuovo-stadio-del-cagliari/big_stadiocagliari04.jpeg

http://static.blogo.it/calcioblog/caralis-arena-il-nuovo-stadio-del-cagliari/big_stadiocagliari07.jpeg


30.000 seats

********************************

Firenze:
http://images.corriere.it/Media/Foto/2008/09/19/fdg/STADIO_big.jpg
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/6928/1221834619321003oi5.jpg
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/9606/1221834620094004qs3.jpg

********************************

Genova:
http://www.urbanfile.it/public/Lucas86/191532_stadio-4A.jpg
http://ilsecoloxix.ilsole24ore.com/r/IlSecoloXIXWEB/genova/foto_trattate/2009/10/13/stadio__8094-1[1]--499x285.jpg

35.000 seats

********************************

Palermo:
http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/4069/esternostudio2.jpg
http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/8042/atriostudio2.jpg
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/5070/studio2spaccatoprospett.jpg

40.000 seats

********************************

Roma1 (SS Lazio):
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/8286/stadiodelleaquilelazio.jpg


********************************

Roma2 (As Roma):
http://images.virgilio.it/sg/sportuni/upload/sta/0004/stadio-roma1.jpg

http://asromainrete.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/c_3_media_896897_immagine_det.jpg

http://download.kataweb.it/mediaweb/image/brand_reproma/2009/09/29/1254235310297_senza-titolo-1.jpg

55.000 seats?

********************************

Torino1 (Juventus):
http://www.lajuvesiamonoi.it/graphics/stadio-juve-1.jpg
http://www.lajuvesiamonoi.it/graphics/stadio-juve-2.jpg

41.000 seats

********************************

Torino2 (Fc Torino):
http://www.comune.torino.it/ucstampa/2004/dsc01373.jpg
dati
2.900 seats...this is supposed to be the training field for FC Torino, the main stadium remains the Olimpico


********************************

Udine:
http://www.studiozoppini.it/Project/PR_Udine%20Stadio%20Friuli/vista%206.jpg

This is an old project

There are rumors about projects in Napoli, Bologna and Verona.

^^ brilliant news, football stadiums in Italy at last. How many are club owned?

Also what's with all of them having dull cream seats... surely team colours would be better?

Italy really needs new stadiums!

I just can´t understand the corners with no roof in some stadiums :nuts:

^^ brilliant news, football stadiums in Italy at last. How many are club owned?

Also what's with all of them having dull cream seats... surely team colours would be better?

They should be all club owned besides the one in Udine...
These are just approximate renderings, im sure seats will be with team colours :)

P.S. the one in Genova, if built, will be owned by Sampdoria. Genoa will play in the actual Luigi Ferraris, which is a nice stadium imho, maybe after renovating it.
http://static.sky.it/static/images/sezioni/sport/calcio_italiano/stadio_luigi_ferraris_548x345.jpg

Correct name is PalaEUR in Rome: in EUR district


His correct name is now "PalaLottomatica"
Lottomatica is a sponsor.

Bye

For me Ligi Ferraris is an ultimate football ground. Beautiful !

Torino2 (Fc Torino):
http://www.comune.torino.it/ucstampa/2004/dsc01373.jpg
dati
2.900 seats...this is supposed to be the training field for FC Torino, the main stadium remains the Olimpico

That's the old Filadelfia ground of the great FC Torino, the championsteam of the 1940's, died in the airplane crash at Superga in 1949.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_GE08tVEcHH4/SgIUjwgpgwI/AAAAAAAAADQ/z6WMOluKU7k/s400/Il+Grande+Torino.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superga_air_disaster
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Filadelfia_Stadium_of_Turin

Been at the ground some 10 years ago, and it's heartbreaking that it's left in ruins. The fans still claim that the ground is the 'heart' of FC Torino, and not the Olimpico or Delle Alpi.
http://www.tuttosport.com/images/65/C_3_Media_728865_immagine_l.jpg
http://bertola.eu/nearatree/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/DSC02084s.JPG
http://download.kataweb.it/mediaweb/image/brand_reptorino/2009/03/15/1237135826024_06.jpg

This 'holy ground' is not that far away from the Olimpico :
http://i33.tinypic.com/qo6q2c.jpg

Palaruffini (Torino)
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/9866/getimagel.jpg

palaCoop (Biela)
http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/3128/img2427.jpg
http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/3622/img2413b.jpg
http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/3622/img2413b.jpg
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/9869/img2388.jpg

Stadio Flaminio (Roma)
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/6827/1045719.jpg
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/2780/1045826.jpg

Thanx for posting, but...why? :D

resize mate, resize :)

Thanx for posting, but...why? :D

He created many threads when he posts big size images;)

DEL

Stadium Flamimio is the second stadium of Rome, after Olimpico and it is used for Rugby six nations.

A lot of stadiums is going to be build in case of Euro 2016 in Italy.

Milan, a new stadium for Inter, not used for Euro 2016.

Roma, new stadium Franco Sensi, not used for Euro 2016.

Palermo, new stadium.

Bologna, new stadium near Bologna.

Turin, U/C.

Genoa, there is an argument between fans that wnt old stadium and major that want to realiza new one to host Euro 2016.

Naples, new stadium in the same site of San Paolo.

Udine, same stadium with a new roof.

Florence, new fantastic stadium but Florence is too slow in this project.

Cagliari, new stadium in the same site of Sant'Elia.

PalaMinardi (Ragusa)
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/281/palasportminardiwki.jpg

As usual, in http://www.stadiapostcards.com every week a complete report of attendance statistics of italian football league from Serie A,B and Lega Pro, match by match, club by club.
And from this season, also Rugby Super10 attendance!

I want to see the new Delle Alpi ready to play. Subito!!!

http://www.tranisport.it/wbresize.aspx?f=public/euro2016701.jpg&c=100&w=600


http://i49.tinypic.com/34jb250.jpg


http://i47.tinypic.com/339spxw.jpg


http://i47.tinypic.com/35d6c87.jpg


http://i50.tinypic.com/2nvrtc3.jpg


http://i50.tinypic.com/25qdb9d.jpg


http://i46.tinypic.com/2uglc36.jpg


http://i49.tinypic.com/1qpxe8.jpg


http://i48.tinypic.com/2db6rna.jpg


http://i46.tinypic.com/2mwwjzo.jpg


http://i49.tinypic.com/2iupyki.jpg


http://i47.tinypic.com/140jmdu.jpg


http://i50.tinypic.com/116icdt.jpg

mb2016ita-100215104915-phpapp01


AIRPORTS:

ROME (FIUMICINO)

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/148/12562239235330103f587.jpg

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00056/F_200612_december14e_56560a.jpg

MILAN (MALPENSA)

http://abs.italiaabc.it/photobook/poi/29/2_aeroporto_milano_malpensa.jpg

http://imgpe.trivago.com/uploadimages/50/66/5066003_l.jpeg

HIGHWAYS

AUTOSTRADA DEL SOLE (MILAN-NAPLES)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/Mappa_autostrada_A1_Italia.svg

http://brugheriofutura.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/autostrada_del_sole.jpg

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/281452.jpg

http://download.kataweb.it/mediaweb/image/brand_repfirenze/2008/03/27/1206630900106_00be0b66.jpg

GRANDE RACCORDO ANULARE (MOTOWAY AROUND ROME)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/Mappa_autostrada_A90_Italia.svg

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GRA-Galleria-Aurelia.jpg

http://www.activep53.eu/NEWSEVENTS/HIPPO/pic/gra.jpg

http://www.matildi.com/images/lotto5_gra_finale.jpg

RAILWAYS

HIGH SPEED RAILWAYS IN ITALY:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/Italy_TAV_new.png

http://www.haisentito.it/img/frecciarossa-alta-velocita.jpg

http://www.cittadiniattivi.it/public/Freccia%20Rossa.jpg

http://www.info2015expo.it/uploads/freccia-rossa-interno.jpg

roma termini (biggest train station in italy and second in europe after paris)

http://abs.italiaabc.it/photobook/poi/624/2_stazione_di_roma_termini.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/Roma-stazione_termini20.jpg

milan station

http://www.carusolimo.com/img/gall/81546852/1177881971.jpg

SUBWAYS

ROME'S UNDERGROUND

how it is now:

http://www.tabaccheriacostanzi.it/Img_Fabio/Metropolitana_Roma.gif

how it'll be in 2016 (the yellow line will be completed in 2020)

http://www.metrocspa.it/upload/163200763428PMretemetropmedia.jpg

LINEA A

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6b/RomemetroEmanuele.JPG

http://www.advertiser.it/media/img/articoli/articoli-ottobre/manzoni-2-articolo.jpg

http://www.trasportipubblici.info/img/osteriadelcurato/imag0040.jpg

LINEA B

colosseo station

http://www.romatoday.it/pictures/20090528/metro_piramide.jpeg

old trains

http://static.blogo.it/06blog/metrbdiroma.jpg

new trains

http://www.clickmobility.it/servlets/resources?resourceId=2093783

http://www.comune.roma.it/repository/ContentManagement/information/P732233165/metro%20b%20nuova_2.jpg

You'll fell at home

http://www.figc.it/other/MB_2016_eng.pdf

Good luck Italy! :wave:

Isn´t the Firenze stadium way to small if it´s ment to be Fiorentinas home stadium in the future? Will they use another, bigger stadium?

Some of the stadiums on offer just don't cut it for me, not the greatest of bids.

my favorite is Palermo... I hope they will build it , no matter if Italy wins or loses. I'd also like to see some other pictures of Karalis arena... romano thank you to open this thread. Could you please add some Transporrtation photos also?

Here you have some pics of the Karalis Arena (the "gray" stadium is the first project, proposed two years ago from Cagliari Calcio, is different for some thousand of seats... from about 25k to 30k, so there aren't major changes to the project).

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=51988627&postcount=2145

Some years ago, also MasterCard was interested to buy the Naming Rights, in order to rebrand the stadium "MasterCard Arena".

Isn´t the Firenze stadium way to small if it´s ment to be Fiorentinas home stadium in the future? Will they use another, bigger stadium?

Fiorentina's planning to build a totally new stadium in the middle of a "sport city". In fact if ITALY 2016 suceed it could be really possible that the stadium for Firenze will be the new one.

http://www.corrieredellosport.it/Fotogallery/Fiorentina/7000/0/Nuovo%20stadio%20di%20Firenze,%20le%20prime%20foto

TJ-SOgogm_w

http://it.violachannel.tv/dettaglio-news/items/il-progetto-viola.html

Fiorentina's planning to build a totally new stadium in the middle of a "sport city". In fact if ITALY 2016 suceed it could be really possible that the stadium for Firenze will be the new one.

http://www.corrieredellosport.it/Fotogallery/Fiorentina/7000/0/Nuovo%20stadio%20di%20Firenze,%20le%20prime%20foto

TJ-SOgogm_w

http://it.violachannel.tv/dettaglio-news/items/il-progetto-viola.html

OK, thank you cesco_82! I had forgotten that one. Well let´s hope it will be built in time so it can be used in an eventuall tournament in Italy.
The bid is OK, not great.

Yes. I am so sure that they will built better and bigger stadiums :)
But San Siro has to be 80,000+.!!!!

This is my favourite. Imagine a summer with Euro in Italy.
A game in Bari... I love it!


Fiorentina's planning to build a totally new stadium in the middle of a "sport city". In fact if ITALY 2016 suceed it could be really possible that the stadium for Firenze will be the new one.

http://www.corrieredellosport.it/Fotogallery/Fiorentina/7000/0/Nuovo%20stadio%20di%20Firenze,%20le%20prime%20foto

TJ-SOgogm_w

http://it.violachannel.tv/dettaglio-news/items/il-progetto-viola.html

Yuck. I sure hope they don't build THAT!
Renovate Artemo Franchi!

how can I do to post slideshows?? I would like to post the english version of the media-book but I don't know how to do it...however, you can find the english version here (http://www.figc.it/other/MB_2016_eng.pdf)

my favorite is Palermo... I hope they will build it , no matter if Italy wins or loses. I'd also like to see some other pictures of Karalis arena... romano thank you to open this thread. Could you please add some Transporrtation photos also?

done!! if you want to see something more contact me :)

what does karalis mean?
sounds greek

what does karalis mean?
sounds greek

I'm Italian and I don't know :lol:

I think they are just looking around for a sponsor, once they will find it, they will change the name.

^^

Karalis is the ancient name of Cagliari.

"Under the name of Karalis it was established around the 7th century BC as one of a string of Phoenician colonies in Sardinia".

It probably comes from phoenician, meaning "City of God".

roma termini

http://www.carusolimo.com/img/gall/81546852/1177881971.jpg



:rofl:


:bash:


This is not roma termini... :nono:

It's Milan - Central Station

:rofl:


:bash:


This is not roma termini... :nono:

It's Milan - Central Station

sorry :) i found it on google under roma-termini

Very poor in comparison with Turkey!

Very poor in comparison with Turkey!

From the stadia point of view maybe.

But from the infrastructure/accomodation point of view it's the opposite situation.

Also you need to consider the unique athmosphere that a tournment in Italy can have.

Italians love football, history says we have the second best team in the world (4 world cup) and the best in europe.

Recently we showed the world we are able to manage big events both during the Pope's dead (when millions of people came to Rome from all over the world and in a few days) and during the Turin winter olympic games.

Our health system is the second best in the world (after France 0_o) and the civil defence (despite newspapers say during those days) is the best in the world (when there was the tsunami in the south east of Asia first planes with help arrive from Italy, sent by Protezione Civile).

We are currently undertaking a leading role in keeping peace and order all around the world (not just inside our country), for example in the Balcanian area and in Lebano.

Is Turkey able to offer the same organization?

I wonder if uefa wants to take the risk after euro 2012.

This competition is not just about stadia, there is a lot of work to do behind the game.

We are able to do it, France is too, but we can do it with passion.

If you have a look on facebook, there are some group created by people who still remember the 1990 world cup and its athmosphere.

I have a positive feeling, we can bring back a Big tournment in Italy!

1oe0webMVu0

Bad selection of stadiums. No way around that.

I'm really glad about the metro expansion in Roma (especially the B1 to Viale Libia), but that really doesn't boost this bid.

Does anyone have pictures of new Roma stadium Franco Sensi?
And Inter new stadium.:)

Sorry, I have not reviewed all, my computer is slow lately.

what does karalis mean?
sounds greek

Karalis is the ancient name of Cagliari. :)

(euro 2016 version of the project, with minor changes to the original)
http://i46.tinypic.com/2n6udr8.jpg

(original project)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3157/2586920478_c08509170e_o.jpg

I think you can find renders of Roma´s stadium in the porposed stadiums section ;)
About Inter...don´t know...never saw any render yet.

I think Italy must bid for a basketball world championship or Eurobasket. Both for rising up the basketball in Italy again and to have new venues wich Italy needs for now.

Does anyone have pictures of new Roma stadium Franco Sensi?
And Inter new stadium.:)

Sorry, I have not reviewed all, my computer is slow lately.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=969334

^^ Like it alot!

reminds me of Greek style..

new juventus's stadium that will be ready next year

http://nsa13.casimages.com/img/2010/02/26/100226034820601349.jpg

http://www.solopallone.it/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/nuovo_stadio_juventus.jpg

http://jcmeda.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/144cgz.jpg

neJM3CDvngc

edit

Juve stadiums is going along fine!
To bad that it is way outside of town.

wonderful video of Juve's stadium. It is reaslly wonderful. Capacity could be more, but they saved place for the louges more.

^^ Thanks.

Stadio San Paolo ( 60.240 ----> 63.250 )

The project

http://www.manicaarchitecture.com/manicanews/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/2016-Italy-Article.pdf

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/460/sanpaolo2.png

http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/2295/stadiosanpaolo.jpg

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/6972/sanpaolo.png

If I had to pick between Italy and Turkey i would pick Italy also. Security and Transportation systems are a lot better in Italy, but expected larger stadiums. Italian league is in top 5 in Europe, there shouldn't be any stadium with only 30 000 seats.

No Genoa in the bid? Why not?

btw, nice stadium for Napoli. Very nice design...

The stadium's capacities are lower than France and our.
Why Italy prefer to renovating the old stadiums instead of building new stadiums(Germany) ?
Artemio Franchi,Tardini have expired especially.

The stadium's capacities are lower than France and our.
Why Italy prefer to renovating the old stadiums instead of building new stadiums(Germany) ?
Artemio Franchi,Tardini have expired especially.

because there are no reasons to waste money...

France is going to win this one. After the issues with Ukraine/Poland im sure they want to be in a country that has the infrastructure and venues in place.

Italy has the infrastructure - however they have an inept and corrupt leader in berlusconni - why any event would be awarded to a country with a clown for a leader is beyond me.

nice. :)

Verona’s stadium goes photovoltaic!!! the dome of Verona’s Bentegodi Stadium has become the largest photovoltaic sports complex roof in Italy, and one of the largest in Europe.

what do you think about?

LivegreenBlog (http://www.livegreenblog.com/?p=632)

why should i be banned. i'm speaking my mind, not calling anyone names or being rude.

Italy has a sexist, corrupt criminal for a leader. Anyone who doesnt see that must be blind. I only need to go through any news site and post link after link of stories about this moron to prove my point.

:lol:

I like Berlusconi a little bit. He's so "politically incorrect" and leftist media across Europe will take any chance to blast him. And he owns one of the biggest and best football clubs in the world.

On topic please.

Thanks.

Napoli stadium looks great from the inside, the best one presented. Why is Juventus new stadium has such low cap. considering their importance in Serie A and CL?

Napoli stadium looks great from the inside, the best one presented. Why is Juventus new stadium has such low cap. considering their importance in Serie A and CL?

Because they don't need bigger one? Their attendance is very low.

^^ Thank you Captain Obvious! Stadium is not build for the next 5 or 10 year but for much longer time period. If Barcelona is planing to expand Camp Nou o 110 000, and other mayor European clubs are planing stadiums for 80 000, shouldn't Juventus have at least 60 000 cap?

^^ Thank you Captain Obvious! Stadium is not build for the next 5 or 10 year but for much longer time period. If Barcelona is planing to expand Camp Nou o 110 000, and other mayor European clubs are planing stadiums for 80 000, shouldn't Juventus have at least 60 000 cap?

Because they already had a 60k stadium? Why on earth would they build one again when they will never fill it? Club exist for 113 years and trust me that they won't suddenly gain some new fans over night...

http://i49.tinypic.com/34jb250.jpg

The original intended project for the final expansion of the San Siro stadium is for 15 entrance towers around the stadium, and the 3rd tier is extended to the east. We are not going to lose a single entrance tower to a worthless deviation from its intended design. It was left unfinished because of that white elephant Hippodrome to the east. Also, i need to know what the Italian text says when it is translated to English.

cool stadium.

Juventus will not make a 60.000 k stadium because it has always had an average audience of less than 50,000 k

^^So no UEFA Elite Stadium for Torino, Juventus will have a Category 4 Stadium without ever expanding to exactly 50K?

Elite stadiums just need at least 30k

^^ Like it alot!

The stadium is nice, Yes. :)

Delete regrettable post.

^^ :nono: :nono:

According to the "UEFA Stadium Infrastructure Regulations" :

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/4223/capturedcran20100515231.jpg
In addition of that, still in terms of capacity, a stadium must have (net cap.) :
50,000 seats minimum for the Europa League final and a minimum of 60,000 seats for the Champions League final (but preferably at least 70,000 seats).


And about the UEFA Euro, here are the requirements in terms of capacity (extracted from the "UEFA European Championship, Tournament Requirements") :

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/6219/capturedcran20100515233.jpg

Elite stadiums just need at least 30k

Is it necessary . . . ?

List of italian basketball teams in A1 league, with the actual and the new arenas

Montepaschi Siena - Palasport Mens Sana 6.000 (new arena 11.000, approved)
Armani Milan - Mediolanum Forum 11.200
Pepsi Caserta - PalaMaggiò 6.387
NGC Cantù - Palasport Pianella 3.910 (new Cantù Arena 7.000 u/c)
Virtus Bologna - Futurshow Station 8.600 (increase to 10.500 u/c)
Lottomatica Rome - Lottomatica Arena 10.500
Sigma Montegranaro - PalaSavelli 3.800
Lauretana Biella - Biella Forum 5.007
Benetton Treviso - PalaVerde 5.154
Air Avellino - PalaDelMauro 5.100
Scavolini Pesaro - Adriatic Arena 10.323
Banca Tercas Teramo - PalaScapriano 3.500
Cimberio Varese - Whirlpool Arena 5.300
Vanoli Cremona - PalaRadi 3.527
Enel Brindisi - PalaPentassuglia 3.500 (new arena 5.000 approved)
New team from Lega2 (the Final serie is still running)

The Tor Vergata arena of Rome (u/c)


http://s2.postimage.org/4pIB0.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Ts4pIB0)

http://s2.postimage.org/4pL59.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Ts4pL59)

http://s2.postimage.org/4pQ4r.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Ts4pQ4r)

Any news of thenew olympic swimming pool in Turin?

Nice. :)

New stadium of Cagliari, Sardinia (23,600)

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/4782/55661172.jpg

http://www.unionesarda.it/foto/GalleryFoto/301320.jpg

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/1231/ca2f.jpg

The works should start at the beginning of next year and has to finish 1 year later.
The location of new stadium will be 300 m. from the runway of Cagliari airport (Elmas=

new juventus's stadium that will be ready next year

http://nsa13.casimages.com/img/2010/02/26/100226034820601349.jpg

http://www.solopallone.it/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/nuovo_stadio_juventus.jpg

http://jcmeda.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/144cgz.jpg

neJM3CDvngc

How is it going actually?

^^

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/7700/image00005wy.jpg

Are there some new renders for Cagliari stadium? Looks good!

Are there some new renders for Cagliari stadium? Looks good!

It has 2 problems.

1. The capacity (23600)
2. The location, 300 m from the runway of airport.

There is a big discuss on italian thread abuot these points.

It has 2 problems.

1. The capacity (23600)
2. The location, 300 m from the runway of airport.

There is a big discuss on italian thread abuot these points.

What's the issue? Too big or too small? I just had a look at their average attendance, and 23,000 seems fine; its higher than what they've averaged in the past 5 years, but it allows enough space for growth in attendances.

What's the issue? Too big or too small? I just had a look at their average attendance, and 23,000 seems fine; its higher than what they've averaged in the past 5 years, but it allows enough space for growth in attendances.

It's too small. Cagliari will be cut off in case of Euro or WC, for this reason in Cagliari asked 30.000.

In Mainz are realizing a stadium with 33,500 seats, in Cluj 30,500, in Lvov 33,500, in Grozny 30,000 and go on.

For a big event UEFA ask you a stadium of 30,000.

I heard about a baseball stadium being built in Rome. Any details on it?

Any news of the new olympic swimming pool in Turin?