Hi guys, I was wondering if anyone has any news about proposed or in construction indoor arenas in Italy size 10,000 and more. As far as I know there is only Fila Forum and the old olympic arena in Rome, Palleour I think it´s the name.

Correct name is PalaEUR in Rome: in EUR district
Fila Forum (or Assago Forum) is in Milan

Some month ago we tried in Italian forum to do a schedule of Italian arenas: I think those thread could be much useful to you. I see if I'm able to find it...... see you later :)

Here I am...

And here the thread:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=180452

Sorry, it's in Italian :(

Italian indoor arenas top ten (existing and u/c)

Gianni Agnelli (Torino): 12350/?/17500* places
Filaforum (Assago - Mi): 12000/15000* places
Bpa Palas (Pesaro):10323 places
PalaMazda (Milano): 10045 places
PalaDesio (Desio - Mi): 10000 places
PalaEur/lottomatica (Roma): 9000/10500* places
Palavela (Torino) : more than 8285/ ? places
PalaMalaguti (Bologna) : 8278 places
PalaLivorno (Livorno) :8033 places
Pala Sada (Monza - Mi): 8000 places


* for congresses or concerts

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Torino - Turin

TORINO'S NEW ARENAS:

Palasport Olimpico Giovanni Agnelli
The XX Winter Olympics will be held in Turin in early 2006. As part of the scheme, a new ice hockey stadium will be built. The design by Isozaki/Archa and Arup won first place in an open competition in June 2002.
The design can accommodate up to 12,500 spectators during the ice hockey games with a maximum capacity of 17,500 for post-Olympics flexibility use. Its large structural roof spans of up to 90m and limited number of main supports means that stadium will have a high degree of flexibility for different uses. The services strategy for the building minimises energy demand and ensures that the environment can be easily adapted to suit the many uses of the building, ranging from ice hockey to exhibitions and concerts.
The stadium is due for completion in October 2005, in order to tune and test the building for the opening of the Winter Olympics in February 2006.
ARCHITECT: :Arata Isozaky
NUMBER OF SPECTATORS 12,450 (hockey) - 17.500
Completion Date: October 2005
http://www.agenziatorino2006.it/opere/media/u01/2.jpg
http://www.oct.torino.it/architetti/imcom/isozaky03_big.jpg
http://www.oct.torino.it/architetti/imcom/delmese02_big.jpg http://www.oct.torino.it/architetti/imcom/delmese03_big.jpg
http://www.oct.torino.it/architetti/imcom/isozaky05_big.jpg



Palavela
ARCHITECT: Gae Aulenti
NUMBER OF SPECTATORS 8,300
Completion Date: December 2004
http://www.torino2006.org/uploads/images/comunicati/Toroc08a.jpg
http://backoffice.sistemapiemonte.it/repository/agto2006/news/immagini/Resize%20of%20Vela40_76.JPG
http://www.extratorino.it/img_guida/guida_img2_1986.jpg
http://www.extratorino.it/img_special/special_alta_1477.jpg
http://www.extratorino.it/img_special/special_alta_1470.jpg
http://www.extratorino.it/img_special/special_alta_1471.jpg
http://www.extratorino.it/img_special/special_alta_1476.jpg
http://www.extratorino.it/img_special/special_alta_1472.jpg
http://www.extratorino.it/img_special/special_alta_1474.jpg
http://www.extratorino.it/img_special/special_alta_1475.jpg



Oval (Lingotto area)
Completion Date: September 2005
COMPETITION RING m 400
NUMBER OF SPECTATORS : 8,463
http://www.europaconcorsi.com/db/pub/images/1560/1263173507.jpg
http://www.europaconcorsi.com/db/pub/images/1560/289500732.jpg
http://www.agenziatorino2006.it/opere/media/u04/1.jpg
http://www.agenziatorino2006.it/opere/media/u04/2.jpg
http://www.europaconcorsi.com/inarcassa/pub/thumbnail.php?gd=2&src=http://www.europaconcorsi.com/db/pub/images/1560/1123571627.jpg&maxw=468
http://www.europaconcorsi.com/db/pub/images/1560/1059401386.jpg
http://www.europaconcorsi.com/db/recm/images/rec/9321/9321b2.jpg
http://www.europaconcorsi.com/inarcassa/pub/thumbnail.php?gd=2&src=http://www.europaconcorsi.com/db/pub/images/1560/1109790177.jpg&maxw=468
http://www.studiozoppini.it/Project/Pr_torino/nord.jpg
http://www.studiozoppini.it/Project/Pr_torino/striscia.jpg

Thanks guys, I like the new oval in Torino. I am supprised that the arena in Trieste didn´t make the list, I thought it had capacity of 10,000?

Thanks guys, I like the new oval in Torino. I am supprised that the arena in Trieste didn´t make the list, I thought it had capacity of 10,000?

No, it have a capacity of 6,943! :)

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What is the capacity of this arena?

^
Filaforum (Assago - Mi): 12000/15000* places

Officially...
15.000 places is for concerts: but normally a sold out concert at Assago Forum overcomes 20.000

However: 12.000 seats

PalaEur/lottomatica (Roma): 9000/10500* places


Palaeur is 11.000 for basketball/indoor sports (look at the play-off 2005 of Virtus Rome, they made various games with 10.500-11.000 people on the seats).

Some other pics of Filaforum (thanks Claudio Dega)

http://digilander.libero.it/olimpiafoto5/11062005/116-1613_IMG.JPG

http://digilander.libero.it/olimpiafoto5/11062005/116-1617_IMG.JPG

http://digilander.libero.it/varie3cella/05022005/100_0616.JPG

sansiro stadium

interesting

LATEST NEWS
AC Milan to leave San Siro?
Reuters

AC Milan vice-president Adriano Galliani says his club could leave their famous San Siro home and build a new a venue in the city.

"Our stadium is among the least worst in Italy, the pitch is magnificent, you have a good view from the stands, the majority of fans don't get wet if it rains and it is easy to get to."

"But the first level was built in 1926 and sharing with Inter Milan isn't easy. Inter's directors have different ideas to us and so maybe it is time to think of two new stadiums for the city of Milan," Galliani said in an interview with the daily Corriere della Sera.

Milan, formed in 1899, played at five different stadiums before moving to the San Siro in 1926 and were not joined by Inter until 1947.

Before moving in with their 'cousins' at the San Siro, Inter played at the Arena, in the centre of the city, which is the oldest venue in the world to have staged first class football having been opened in 1807 a century before Inter were formed.

The three-tier San Siro, which currently has space for 80,000 fans, was radically redeveloped for the 1990 World Cup finals and was the venue for the opening game of that tournament.

Although the World Cup allowed huge investment in stadiums across Italy, Galliani, who is also president of the Italian Football League, said it was not spent wisely.

"The error of 'Italia 90' was developing existing stadiums or building new ones with athletic tracks. That was how we lost a historic opportunity," he said.

The Delle Alpi stadium in Turin was one of the new venues built for the World Cup but will be demolished next year to make way for a new venue for Juventus which will have a reduced capacity and no running track.

Italian clubs could have a second chance to get access to funds for stadium development with the country bidding to host the European Championships in 2012.

Attendances in Italy this season are down by 20 per cent and while some, such as Football Federation chief Franco Carraro, have blamed ticket prices and crowd violence, Galliani says the stadiums are also to blame.

"All the club presidents agree with my view that the fall is without doubt related to stadiums that are obsolete and not designed for football," he said.

"You can't see much of the game, you have a bad view and if it rains you get soaked, as happened to 5,000 Livorno fans at Florence on Sunday who will have caught colds after watching the match in the pouring rain. We can't go on like this," he said.

"The way forward is to build new stadiums because the majority of the current ones are neither savable or able to be restructured," added Galliani who highlighted German club Schalke 04's AufSchalke Arena in Gelsenkirchen as a model.

"The Germans told me that they sell an average of 30,000 litres of beer for each game. In our stadiums you can't even get a cup of water," he said.

"It's obvious that as long as the stadiums are like this people will prefer to watch the game on television rather than go to the match," he added.

:eek2:

I'd certainly agree that the italians missed an opportunity in 1990. One running track around a big stadium I can understand but they must have at least half a dozen 50,000 seat stadia with them.

I a couple of team want new studiums in Italy. I know Juventus want to build a new ground but with half the number of seats.

I a couple of team want new studiums in Italy. I know Juventus want to build a new ground but with half the number of seats.

I thought Juve were drastically re-developing the Delle Alpi to 42,000 seats?

I thought Juve were drastically re-developing the Delle Alpi to 42,000 seats?
Ye they are going to build a totally new ground inside the old ground.

I think Juve is right doing that; the atmosphere in Delle Alpi is cold even in some matches in Champions.

I think Juve is right doing that; the atmosphere in Delle Alpi is cold even in some matches in Champions.

I don't think Juve are doing the right thing at all.

Without doubt, they cannot stay at stadio delle alpi as things stand. A club like Juve should be getting more than the pitiful average 25,000 attendance they have at the moment (they are supposed to be the best supported club in Italy, after all, and a smaller club like Manchester City had significantly higher gates than that, even when in English football's third division a few years ago). But the option Juve have chosen - to build a reduced capacity stadium within the current stadium - is stupid beyond belief.

One of the main objections to stadio delle alpi is its location. If they go ahead with current plans, nothing will have been done to address that particular objection. Furthermore, if Juve had decided instead to build a new 60,000+ stadium more centrally, I'm sure that they could sell out as often as not - meaning far more revenue generating potential. What with their sizeable turnover, the Agnelli millions and almost certain financial assistance from local government, it's not as if they would lack the funds for such a project.

I'd guess someone is probabley covering themselves politcally with the delle alpi renovation, its less of an admission of a mistake with the original devolpment than if the club had totally moved out. Maybe the club is getting additional assistance with it in return?

Juve havent ever been the best supported club in italy though, tradisionally their behind both Milan and Rome clubs and Napoli. They've only averaged over 50,000 a season once in their history and are normally closer to 35-40,000.

Juve havent ever been the best supported club in italy though, tradisionally their behind both Milan and Rome clubs and Napoli. They've only averaged over 50,000 a season once in their history and are normally closer to 35-40,000.

In terms of attendances, they're not the best supported club but, in terms of numbers of supporters in Italy, they are the best supported club - the Man Utd of Italy, with fans all over the country. Not surprising given that, domestically, they are the most successful club.

I'd agree, incidentally, that the decision to go ahead with this awful compromise at stadio delle alpi is little more than a face saving exercise.

the Delle Alpi stadium will be partially rebuild without the athletics track and the view will be as good as the english stadium (even else the worst is the rome stadium for the view).
Works will start after finishing the current league.

the capacity will be dropped to about 41.000 people but the design is fantastic.

some renderings:
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_menu/past_future/pictures/future_stadiums/torino_juventus_arena1.jpg
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_menu/past_future/pictures/future_stadiums/torino_juventus_arena2.jpg
now the best stadium in italy is san siro (i love it!!)

Nice renderings

WOW That design is Awesome!! Go italy!

In terms of attendances, they're not the best supported club but, in terms of numbers of supporters in Italy, they are the best supported club - the Man Utd of Italy, with fans all over the country. Not surprising given that, domestically, they are the most successful club.

I'd agree, incidentally, that the decision to go ahead with this awful compromise at stadio delle alpi is little more than a face saving exercise.

Man Utd have had the best attendaces in England pretty much every season for the last 35 years though, Juve have never been anywhere near that so I don't see how they can claim to be the best supported team(most liked maybe).

If someone elses face is being saved then as I said I wouldnt be supprized if Juve have been given some financial incentive to stay and redevolp rather than move so it maybe worth their while.

Juventus has one of the worst attendances in Italy, expecially if you take a look at the season tickets. It's true it has more fans throughout the country, but has not so many in its hometown, Turin, where the other team (Torino Calcio) has by far more supporters, even if they are doing very badly since many years. Juve has many supporters from Southern Italy, many of them work for FIAT in Turin and in other towns as well. So a 40k stadium is more than enough for the black-white team.

Talking about AC Milan the situation is much different, they have supporters and San Siro is often full or almost full, the problem is that you need binoculars to see the players from the cheapest places of the stadium. They said that Schalke 04 stadium in Gelsenkirchen is the best one and they would like to have something similar; and they are right, the German stadium is fantastic, much better than any other stadium in Italy. But the big problem here is that the stadium usually are owned by the city government, and not by the team. And they can use it just for the football matches, no other things. While a private owned stadium by only 1 team could be used for many other purpouses, like in the UK or in Germany. The other big problem is that attendance is getting lower and lower, that's due to high prices (few chaep seats), a lot of football on TV for much less, boring matches (only the usual 3 teams can fight for the "scudetto"), violence, corruption and so on... people are tired, even if we all like football.

It's true it has more fans throughout the country, but has not so many in its hometown, Turin.

Thanks for confirming what I thought.

They said that Schalke 04 stadium in Gelsenkirchen is the best one and they would like to have something similar; and they are right, the German stadium is fantastic, much better than any other stadium in Italy.

It's a good stadium and the Schalke fans are very passionate but (having admittedly only ever seen it on TV and in pictures), the stadium seems a bit soulless and lacking in character.

The other big problem is that attendance is getting lower and lower, that's due to high prices (few chaep seats), a lot of football on TV for much less.

I'm not sure that the price of tickets is the big problem. The majority of tickets for Serie A games are much cheaper than for games in the English Premiership. Only the most expensive tickets are on a par with similar tickets in England. However, I think you're right to say that TV exposure is a major problem. Isn't every game for every club now televised live?

Galliani is a stupid asshole.

all that interview about San Siro is pure propaganda.
Milan and Inter want buy San Siro stadium by the municiaplity of Milano that is the owner of the field from the 40's.
San Siro is a perfect stadium to watch football match, without trak field, with 85.700 all seat places, skybox and an excellent view also on the third level at more than 50 meters over the ground.
The Municipality have a estimate of the price from Merryl Linch and others that is around 100 Millions of Euro.
the 2 teams want pay less than an half part.

so that asshole of Galliani that is at the same time President of Milan and President of the Lega Serie A (we like that conflictual positions...Berlusconi...) spoke bad about all the stadiums to have a better price for S.Siro.

1 months ago also the President of Inter, Massimo Moratti, wrote to newspapars that Inter want a new stadium, perhaps outside Milano.
a double offensive against the Municipality: dont' buy S.Siro and built the new stadium outside the borderline of Milano, in the Metro Area (the Municipality will lost an enormous amount in taxes).

so...now is the moment of Galliani, on the next week of Moratti...

the important thing is that the 2 wankers talks, and the Municipality ...works to change in better the stadium.

btw.
about the Race Track.
only 2 stadium for Italia 1990 were built with the trakcs: Bari and Torino.
all the rest have the race track also before the renovation of the 90.


stadiums are empty (not all...S.Siro is full all the season, normlly) cause there are matches on tv at 4 Euro.
'cause stadiums are full of stupid idiots (the Ultras fans), and also cause some, few, stadiums are very worst to see football (Torino, Napoli, Roma, Bari).

another big problems of Italian Serie A, is that teams of some big cities are in 2° or 3° division..or less!
Torino (1.7 M in Metro Area) = SERIE B
Genoa (1 M) = SERIE C1
Napoli (4 M) = SERIE C1
Catania (1 M) = SERIE B
Bari (0.8 M) = SERIE B
Taranto (0.4) = serie????????????
and the same thing with cities with 300.000 or more as Trieste, Brescia, Bergamo...

^^^yes, there's SKY calcio, and you can see the matches on the internet with rossoalice for few euros.

Man Utd have had the best attendaces in England pretty much every season for the last 35 years though, Juve have never been anywhere near that so I don't see how they can claim to be the best supported team(most liked maybe).

If someone elses face is being saved then as I said I wouldnt be supprized if Juve have been given some financial incentive to stay and redevolp rather than move so it maybe worth their while.


In fact best for the last 50 years, give or take three or four seasons. I would say since Busby took over. But we had our biggest attendances just after the war, a few over 80,000.

As for Juve. They've got a huge fanbase, but from what I've heard they're spread out all over the country.

Juve have the most part of its fans in the South Italy, where apart Napoli, there were never good teams in the past 100 years.
In the city of Torino the fans of the Toro as probably more numerous than the ones of Juve, and in the Region of Torino, the Piedmont, the fans of Torino are highest than the one of Juve.
Another big number of Juve Fan are located in the Milano Metro Area, specially in the northern region called Brianza (around Monza) where the most part of population is Juve supporters.

some years ago Juve played some home matches of UEFA cup (Semifinal, Final and maybe also the QF) at San Siro! and they had an attendance of 80.000 people.

when there were troubles in Juve stadium, and the field were closed for 1 or more games, Juve normally played in South Italy and not close to Torino.
they have more supporter outside thery home ground.

the last official census of football fans in Italy


2001

Juventus 11.040.000 37%
Inter 6.728.000 23%
Milan 5.818.000 20%
Roma 2.886.000 10%
Lazio 2.070.000 7%

Fonte: AC Nielsen, Marzo 2001

1999
%
Juventus 32
Milan 16
Inter 15
Napoli 7
Roma 5
Lazio 4
Fiorentina 4
Torino 2
Bologna 2
Sampdoria 1
Cagliari 1
other taems 11

Fonte: Indagine Doxa 1999

and this is a European statistical research.
Juventus win cause in Europe there are millions of south italian emigrates, and south Italians are all fan of Juventus or Napoli.


Juventus
Fans in Italy 11.040.000
Fans in Europe 7.138.100
Total 18.178.100

Real Madrid
5.206.000
9.875.000
15.081.000

Manchester Utd.
4.366.000
9.051.000
13.417.000

Barcellona
4.836.000
6.993.000
10.829.300

Milan
4.572.000
4.560.000
9.132.500

Fonte: Sport+Markt 2003

Depends what you class as "fans/supporters" I spose is it those who claim to like/follow a team or those that go to the actual games? since where talking about the size of the stadium I think the latter is the more relevant number, so short of moving to that regoin of Milan or southern Italy I don't see Juve filling a 60,000 seat stadium often.

As for the San Siro I think you just have to accept that in an all seater stadium that size the seats at the very back are not going to have an amazing view, the AufSchalke Arena in comparason has over 30,000 fewer seats.

are all simple questions: "which team do you like?"
it's the ipotetical number of fans.
not the ones that go to see the matches at stadium!

about stadium.
the difference with normal English stadium is that in Italy we dont' have single gigantic stands.
but more levels. one over the others.
so in San Siro the view from the second level is PERFECT, and the view from the Third Level is identical of the last seats of Anfield on the top of the stands!
the Third Level of San Siro is veru close to the vertical limit, and there is abetter view there than in ALL the stadiums with race tracks and also in some single gigantic stands as in Usa and England.
The old Webley was terrible to see a football match, as the Coliseum in LA is far away from the ground! the single stand is the problem!

In most cases a fan is classed as a member of the club. Not always through. I know that alot of fan figures in the English leagues go of the number of members.

In fact best for the last 50 years, give or take three or four seasons. I would say since Busby took over.

Not actually true. Moreorless was right.

Between 1955 and 1972, Tottenham, Everton and Liverpool (three times each) and Chelsea (once) all topped the league average attendance for the season. And in a fair number of those seasons Utd finished 3rd, 4th, 5th and even 7th in the list. So although, in that period, Man Utd topped the averages seven times, it wasn't until 33 years ago that they became consistently the best supported team.

i read that the Man Utd became the most supported team of England also for the tragedy of Munchen.
The same happened in Italy in the 50's for the Torino when the plane crashed on the Superga Church on the 1949, and many young people becam fan of Torino.

but after 15 years, more or less, it's ended. and today is the 8th or 9th team in Italy as number of fan.

how Man Utd have so many fans, also in the 70's and 80's when it won nothing?!

Juventus
Fans in Italy 11.040.000
Fans in Europe 7.138.100
Total 18.178.100

Real Madrid
5.206.000
9.875.000
15.081.000

Manchester Utd.
4.366.000
9.051.000
13.417.000

Barcellona
4.836.000
6.993.000
10.829.300

Milan
4.572.000
4.560.000
9.132.500

Fonte: Sport+Markt 2003

Even if accurate, it's a fairly meaningless statistic since that sort of "support" only matters if they actually contribute to the club in some way. Man Utd and Real Madrid (who both have much greater far eastern support than Juve and, in the case of Madrid, much greater support in South America) seem to be the only clubs in that list who can translate this sort of support significantly into commercial gain.

Besides, such statistics are notoriously fickle. They are calculated from a small sample of surveyed fans. I saw a report recently which said that Chelsea's support in Europe had grown by something like four million in Europe over the past twelve months and that Man Utd's had collapsed by two or three million. That tells me that either these so called supporters were not worth having in the first place (they'll jump from team to team, depending on who's doing well) or that the statisticians were working with very poor data. Either way, their findings are not to be trusted by football clubs as a true indicator of support.

i read that the Man Utd became the most supported team of England also for the tragedy of Munchen.
The same happened in Italy in the 50's for the Torino when the plane crashed on the Superga Church on the 1949, and many young people becam fan of Torino.

but after 15 years, more or less, it's ended. and today is the 8th or 9th team in Italy as number of fan.

how Man Utd have so many fans, also in the 70's and 80's when it won nothing?!

They won a lot of support because of the Busby babes and then, of course, because of the tragic plane crash. But the support grew because of the next great team that Busby put together - particularly George Best, Bobby Charlton and Dennis Law. Then, of course, they became the first English club to win the European Cup. Even in their wilderness years in the 70's and 80's, they still won the FA Cup often enough to carry on attracting fans.

Real Madrid is the new team leader in the marketing in the 2005 with 275,66 millions of Euro (+17%).
the Man Utd that was first for more than 12 years is now second with 249 millions of Euro (it lost the 50% in the last 6 MONTHS!!)
Juventus is 3th of 4th and Milan and Inter in the top ten.

Top of table in the rich league
Real Madrid
Annual income*: £190m
Biggest earner: Commercial income from merchandise and sponsorship, worth almost £80m a year (42 per cent of income). When Florentino Perez became president of the club in 2000, this figure was lower than 10 per cent of income.
Other major revenue streams: Match-day income (mainly tickets) of £48m (26 per cent of income); television income of £44m (24 per cent); and friendlies, tours and other promotions earning £16m (eight per cent).
Wages: £98m, currently 52 per cent of income, which is forecast to fall to 47 per cent of turnover next year.
Manchester Utd
Annual income**: £169m
Biggest earner: Television income, which was by far the largest chunk of overall media income of £62.5m in the year (37 per cent of income). TV income forecast to fall £14m in the current year.
Other major revenue streams: Match-day income of £61.2m (36 per cent); commercial income of £45.3m (27 per cent).
Wages: £76.9m in the last full-year figures, equating to 45 per cent of income, which is expected to rise above 50 per cent in the next figures.
denotes year to 30 June, 2005; ** denotes year to 31 July, 2004, but little or no growth expected in year to June 2005


2004 IN POUND.

1 (1) Man Utd £171.5m
2 (4) Real Madrid £156.3m
3 (3) AC Milan £147.2m
4 (10) Chelsea £143.7m
5 (2) Juventus £142.4m
6 (7) Arsenal £115m
7 (13) Barcelona £110.1m
8 (6) Inter Milan £110.3m
9 (5) Bayern Munich £110.1m
10 (8) Liverpool £92.3m
11 (10) Newcastle £90.5m
12 (11) Roma £72m
13 (18) Celtic £69m
14 (16) Tottenham £66.3m
15 (15) Lazio £65.8m
16 (-) Man City £61.9m
17 (14) Schalke £60.5m
18 (-) Marseille £58.3m
19 (-) Rangers £57.1m
20 (-) Aston Villa £55.9m

2004 IN POUND.

1 (1) Man Utd £171.5m
2 (4) Real Madrid £156.3m
3 (3) AC Milan £147.2m
4 (10) Chelsea £143.7m
5 (2) Juventus £142.4m
6 (7) Arsenal £115m
7 (13) Barcelona £110.1m
8 (6) Inter Milan £110.3m
9 (5) Bayern Munich £110.1m
10 (8) Liverpool £92.3m
11 (10) Newcastle £90.5m
12 (11) Roma £72m
13 (18) Celtic £69m
14 (16) Tottenham £66.3m
15 (15) Lazio £65.8m
16 (-) Man City £61.9m
17 (14) Schalke £60.5m
18 (-) Marseille £58.3m
19 (-) Rangers £57.1m
20 (-) Aston Villa £55.9m

Does make you think were Tottenham will be this year Turover £70.6m.

i read that the Man Utd became the most supported team of England also for the tragedy of Munchen.
The same happened in Italy in the 50's for the Torino when the plane crashed on the Superga Church on the 1949, and many young people becam fan of Torino.

but after 15 years, more or less, it's ended. and today is the 8th or 9th team in Italy as number of fan.

how Man Utd have so many fans, also in the 70's and 80's when it won nothing?!


Loyalty. Even when we were relagated, we attracted the biggest crowds in England.......and we also averaged more than anyone that season. Imagine, 60,000 in the second. Amazing eh? Even the season before when were relagated we had the best attendances in the country.

But yeah it was the Busby Babes that changed everything. I think the 58 team is our best ever, great shame we never saw them blossom.

Funnily enough our highest gates have come against Non League teams. Over 80,000 went to see Bradford Park Avenue and Yeovil Town just after the war. Our other huge attendance(80k) was against Arsenal.

Not actually true. Moreorless was right.

Between 1955 and 1972, Tottenham, Everton and Liverpool (three times each) and Chelsea (once) all topped the league average attendance for the season. And in a fair number of those seasons Utd finished 3rd, 4th, 5th and even 7th in the list. So although, in that period, Man Utd topped the averages seven times, it wasn't until 33 years ago that they became consistently the best supported team.


Still not bad though. We've had the best attendance bar ten times over the last 50 years.

So where do you reckon you'll finish this season? Spurs are looking good, from what I've seen.

Real Madrid is the new team leader in the marketing in the 2005 with 275,66 millions of Euro (+17%).
the Man Utd that was first for more than 12 years is now second with 249 millions of Euro (it lost the 50% in the last 6 MONTHS!!)
Juventus is 3th of 4th and Milan and Inter in the top ten.

Top of table in the rich league
Real Madrid
Annual income*: £190m
Biggest earner: Commercial income from merchandise and sponsorship, worth almost £80m a year (42 per cent of income). When Florentino Perez became president of the club in 2000, this figure was lower than 10 per cent of income.
Other major revenue streams: Match-day income (mainly tickets) of £48m (26 per cent of income); television income of £44m (24 per cent); and friendlies, tours and other promotions earning £16m (eight per cent).
Wages: £98m, currently 52 per cent of income, which is forecast to fall to 47 per cent of turnover next year.
Manchester Utd
Annual income**: £169m
Biggest earner: Television income, which was by far the largest chunk of overall media income of £62.5m in the year (37 per cent of income). TV income forecast to fall £14m in the current year.
Other major revenue streams: Match-day income of £61.2m (36 per cent); commercial income of £45.3m (27 per cent).
Wages: £76.9m in the last full-year figures, equating to 45 per cent of income, which is expected to rise above 50 per cent in the next figures.
denotes year to 30 June, 2005; ** denotes year to 31 July, 2004, but little or no growth expected in year to June 2005

Man Utd's income looks the more stable to me as comerical income(sponsorship, shirts etc) is by far the most fickle souce IMHO and in Real's case its built on spending massive amounts on well known Galatico's. As we've seen match day sales on the other hand are the most stable since they come from your most loyal supporters(provided glazer doesnt do something really stupid) and in Man Utd's case are likely to rise next season when the old trafford extension opens. I'd guess Man Utd would be well ahead if they sold their TV rights solo in the UK as Real do in Spain aswell.

The Delle Alpi stadium in Turin was one of the new venues built for the World Cup but will be demolished next year to make way for a new venue for Juventus which will have a reduced capacity and no running track.

:eek2: :eek2:

It is going to be hard for me to imagine Italian football without Delle Alpi.
http://vivereultras.altervista.org/stadidellealpi02.jpg
:cry: :cry:

How long will it take to build the new satdium?

Still not bad though. We've had the best attendance bar ten times over the last 50 years.

So where do you reckon you'll finish this season? Spurs are looking good, from what I've seen.

Yep. No doubt that, for all the flak thrown at them, Man Utd fans' loyalty could never be questioned - unlike fans of that Russian financed upstart club. And Man Utd also has one of the best travelling supports in the country. Lots of original songs. In fact, I know a S African fella by the name of Charlie who used to be one of the main writers of Utd's extensive song list.

Spurs? We're doing okay. Not playing great but still picking up points. Think we'll finish somewhere between 4th-7th. And, with the exciting young players at the club, the future is looking brighter than it has for a long while.

Sadly, though, I can see Abramovich's billions buying every trophy in sight for the next decade and more.

the article i read made it sound as if the AC Milan rep brought the idea to the surface but that both AC and INter were toying with the idea of a new stadium each in Milan. That would be crazy, and cool.

Yep. No doubt that, for all the flak thrown at them, Man Utd fans' loyalty could never be questioned - unlike fans of that Russian financed upstart club. And Man Utd also has one of the best travelling supports in the country. Lots of original songs. In fact, I know a S African fella by the name of Charlie who used to be one of the main writers of Utd's extensive song list.

Spurs? We're doing okay. Not playing great but still picking up points. Think we'll finish somewhere between 4th-7th. And, with the exciting young players at the club, the future is looking brighter than it has for a long while.

Sadly, though, I can see Abramovich's billions buying every trophy in sight for the next decade and more.


Glad you noticed our away support. It's brilliant. Much better than our home support.

I think you've bought some quality players. Anything upto 4th is a possibility.

Chelsea have virtually won the league, although we have to play them at Old Trafford in a couple of weeks. . . but if I'm honest, we're fighting for second spot. And yeah, they've pretty much got the title in the bag for the next few seasons. Until the Ruski gets bored. . .that is.

Oh, come on. Ten matches played and everybody congratulates Chelsea! The season is long and many things can happen.(injuries...)
Just have a look at the past CL winners. All underdogs!
So, cheer up. Day's form always beats class and quality. And money doesn't win trophys.

Oh, come on. Ten matches played and everybody congratulates Chelsea! The season is long and many things can happen.(injuries...)
Just have a look at the past CL winners. All underdogs!
So, cheer up. Day's form always beats class and quality. And money doesn't win trophys.

Chelsea's biggest advanatge in the league is the depth of their squad so I barring really terrible luck I can't see injuries hurting their season alot, Man Utd and Arsenal have been unluckier already this season in that reguard aswell. In cups I agree they are probabley not going to sweep all before them since luck plays a larger factor and performance on the day is more important than consistency.

Its a good thing the prem got that 4th champs league spot(although Everton failing to get though took a bit of shine off it) or their would be very little for clubs like Spur's to aim for anymore.

today there was a long article on the Corriere delle Sera, an entire apge, about the San Siro problem.
yesterday evening, offivialy, both teams asked to the Municipality to sold the stadium at Euro....ZERO, ZERO.

in any other cas they will built 2 new stadiums.
Milan find the area for the new stadium in Milano, in the Santa Giulia district ( an area of 1.2 Millions of square meters under renovation with a project of Norman Foster).
Inter find are or in the southern municipalty of Rozzano, or in the northern one of Sesto San Giovanni (another gigantic area of more than 1.5 Millions of square meters under renovation by Renzo Piano). both municiaplities are in the closest Metro Area. both team look at stadiums of 60-65.000 all seats, with bars, restaurants, swimming poll, hotel...
Milan loof to the ghelsenkirchen arena, Inter to the new Da Luz in Lisbon.


in my opinion, Municipality will sell San Siro in the next weeks to the both teams at a great price for there...

if milan ac and inter leave ss , then juve should come and they would have 85-90 k average attendance , beyond the current 60 k of both milano clubs .

in my opinion, Municipality will sell San Siro in the next weeks to the both teams at a great price for there...

The "Municipality" should call Inter's and Milan's bluff. Why give the stadium away for nothing? In the unlikely event that both Inter and Milan follow through with their threats, the "Municipality" will still own the real estate upon which the stadium stands. That would be worth something at least.

Why should Inter and Milan - two of the richest clubs in world football - take ownership of one of the greatest stadiums in world football without paying any money for it, especially since they have tacitly admitted hat they have plenty of funds to build two completely new stadiums.

Sheer greed on their part.

During the last restructuring of Stadium, AC MILAN and FC INTER have invested 50 millions $ in the San Siro Stadium.

This is a Result:
SkyBox
http://www.sansiro.net/web/business/ssb_big/big1_2.jpg

http://www.sansiro.net/web/business/ssb_big/big2_2.jpg

http://www.sansiro.net/web/business/ssb_big/big3_2.jpg

http://www.sansiro.net/web/business/ssb_big/big4_2.jpg

http://www.sansiro.net/web/business/ssb_big/big5_2.jpg

http://media2.acmilan.com/200410/270_big.jpg?ver=2 http://media2.acmilan.com/200410/271_big.jpg?ver=2http://media2.acmilan.com/200410/272_big.jpg?ver=2

Executive Room
http://www.sansiro.net/web/business/ssb_big/bigex_2.jpg

http://www.sansiro.net/web/business/ssb_big/bigex_3.jpg


OSPITALITY
http://www.sansiro.net/web/business/ssb_big/big4_1.jpg

http://www.sansiro.net/web/business/ssb_big/big5_1.jpg

http://www.sansiro.net/web/business/ssb_big/big3_1.jpg

http://www.sansiro.net/web/business/ssb_big/big2_1.jpg

http://www.sansiro.net/web/business/ssb_big/big1_1.jpg

http://media2.acmilan.com/200410/274_big.jpg?ver=2

The "Municipality" should call Inter's and Milan's bluff. Why give the stadium away for nothing? In the unlikely event that both Inter and Milan follow through with their threats, the "Municipality" will still own the real estate upon which the stadium stands. That would be worth something at least.

Why should Inter and Milan - two of the richest clubs in world football - take ownership of one of the greatest stadiums in world football without paying any money for it, especially since they have tacitly admitted hat they have plenty of funds to build two completely new stadiums.

Sheer greed on their part.


as Melchisedek wrote, in the last 3 years the 2 teams payed 50 millions of euro for renovation.
for the next 2 years it will pay other 50/60 millions for other renovation for the security standards.
so, they don't wnat pay other money for a stadiums...that is not thery property!

it is not good pay 100 millions of euro in few years for a thing that is not your!

as Melchisedek wrote, in the last 3 years the 2 teams payed 50 millions of euro for renovation.
for the next 2 years it will pay other 50/60 millions for other renovation for the security standards.
so, they don't wnat pay other money for a stadiums...that is not thery property!

it is not good pay 100 millions of euro in few years for a thing that is not your!

But still.....that would make Milan's and Inter's combined contribution to the San Siro €100 million. Individually, they would only have paid €50 million each. To build a brand new 85,000 seat stadium would cost more than €300 million - €150 million each. Or if they both built separate stadiums with a capacity of 65,000, it would cost them at least €200 million each.

And that's a conservative estimate.

All I'm saying is that the "Municipality" shouldn't back down in the face of threats by Inter and Milan. Why should they give away an asset for free?

i'm agree with you...also cause i live in Milano, i pay taxes here, and i'm not happy if the stadium will be gifted to the 2 teams...cause all people that live in Milano...will lost money!
and San Siro is one of the 5, 6 most famous, important and historical stadiums of the whole world.

today there is an interview to Oliver Bierhoff, formerly player of Milan and other italian teams, about that problems.
and he told that is completely crazy who want demolished San Siro, cause all the players of the world have the dream to play in, as in other few stadiums, as Maracana, Camp Nou, Bernabeu, Old Trafford...

the big problem is that the 2 teams have any problems of money, here in Italy, cause Berlusconi and Moratti, the 2 owner have money for the next 15 generation, but have less money than foreigner team, as Madrid, Man Utd, Barcelona...
they have less money for many reasons: the stadium is not thery property, in Italy there is a big problem about merchandising, specially in central and south Italy, were all the merchandising is not original, have big problem with the taxes that are the dobule than the ones in France and Spain, have some problem with TV money...

so they want have the stadium as a gift from the city council!

btw, to do a real big renovation of San Siro they will play more than 100/150 millions of euro.
the 100 millions that they will pay in the nest 2 years will be only for security outside the stadium, with a completely renovation of the large square, the new dozens of electronic doors....
and finally in Italy, today is still forbidden to have a restaruants or a bar INSIDE the stadium.

San Siro is used only for football matches more or less 60 per year and not for more than 5/6 concerts. all that in 365 days in a year.

unfortunally in Italy the syndrome of the Not In My BackYard is very popular and diffused, so people of the neighborhood of San Siro don't want more concerts, sport event on other in the stadium
some years ago it was used as discothewue during the night. but after the first weeks, it was closed.
S.Siro is in a midlle of a big popular district, with only residential buildings and villas.

the 2 ipotetical new stadiums should be built in the suburbs, in parks or not residential area.

I love the San Siro. It definately needs a make over though. Starting with the seats. But it's a fantastic stadium, would be a shame if the Milan clubs moved on.

According to the rich list posted earlier in this thread, Milan have the 3rd highest turnover of any club in the world and Inter have the 8th highest turnover. So while they may not be Manchester Utd or Real Madrid, they're still doing very well financially. And, as you say, it's not as if the owners of Milan or Inter are lacking financial muscle.

60 football matches a year and 5/6 concerts is, by English standards, an incredibly efficient use of the stadium. For instance, my team is Tottenham. Sadly, we haven't qualified for Europe too often over the past fifteen years and play only 19 Premiership games and a handful of cup games at home every season. Add to that maybe one pre season friendly (but no concerts) and the stadium is used probably only 25 times a year.

As you say, the San Siro is in the middle of a popular residential district. Consequently, the real estate has significant value. If Inter and Milan were to follow through on their threat to leave, then the "Municipality" would be able to make a considerable profit on redevelopment of the site. Therefore, there is little or no incentive for them to cave in to Inter's and Milan's demands.

I suspect that Inter and Milan are just posturing and have no intention whatsoever of leaving the San Siro. As you say, it is a world renowned stadium; a great stadium. And the alternatives would be far more expensive for either club. So they are just trying to strengthen their bargaining position. And, most likely, a compromise position will eventually be reached. Inter and Milan will have to pay to buy the San Siro. But they won't have to pay anything like the full market value.

60 matches with 2 teams, both play in Europe, both normally play also at minimum also to QF-SF of Italy Cup and 38 matches of championship.
but just 10, 15 years ago there were also more than 15/20 concerts during the spring and summer season.
today, for a law of the council there is maximum number of concerts in S.Siro for each years. (i don't rimember if 5 or 6. One of the concerts of the LIVE 8 of the past summer should be played in San Siro, and not in Roma. but the Council didn't want another one concert).

San Siro is in a middle of the most richest neighborhood of Milano, a district that was built from the 30's around the different stadiums.
in the middle of the neighborhood there is gigantic square, called Piazza degli Sport, where there are 2 hippodromes, the San Siro Stadium, other 2 horse race tracks, and there was just to the mid 80's the Palazzo dello Sport, a mulitsport arena that in the 70' and 80's was the European biggest, with more than 20.000 places for the 6Days-bycicle race and 18.000 for Basket, volley, boxe...it collappsed in the 85 for 1 meters and half of snow.
all that gigantic area have a "building destination" that is can be ONLY for sports stadiums. and any other.
so that big area with an ipotetical very high value is not "good" to built residential homes or financial skyscrapers.

it sure that the Council can change the destination of the area, but is a very long way and it's very difficult.
Milano is very small as square kilometers, and with a very high density.
tthe green areas are few and for the most part in the suburbs, where there are gigantic park.
but in the inner city, where live 1.2 Millions of people there are vry few green areas and also large square.
one of that is San Siro district.
so...also if someone one day will decide to demolish S.Siro, is very hard to build something that will not a stadium or similar.

for the same reason, the 2 teams cannot build restaurant, bar, hotel and other stuffs outside the stadium in the big square.
so, i think that they think:
we cannot have in S.Siro the same opportunity that we should have with a new stadium (a stadium open 365 days, with bars, museum, shops as in England or Germnay or USA), so we want the stadium at zero euro. in any other case we'll go outside Milano to built 2 new modern stadiums.
in both option they will pay 100 millions at minimum!
for the works about security in S.Siro, other millions for other renovation and other to buy it from the City.
but if they'll go outside in new stadium, they will built as they want, and they will be the single owner.
not one of the 2!

We had nearly the same discussion in munich.
Bayern Munich planed to build a stadium for their own outside the city.
In Germany you can plan everything to build, but actually you're not allowed to build everything or everywhere ;)
If some authorities don't want that, than you got a problem

I guess they also underestimate the costs to build an stadium. The costs for the stadium are the one thing. But you must also build the infrastructure for mass transportation and stuff. And i don't think that the city of Milano wants to pay the costs twice (for AC and Inter).

I think it's just a bluff. AC and Inter will buy to stadium for more than Zero and less than the actual value.

the big problem is that the 2 teams have any problems of money, here in Italy, cause Berlusconi and Moratti, the 2 owner have money for the next 15 generation, but have less money than foreigner team, as Madrid, Man Utd, Barcelona...
they have less money for many reasons: the stadium is not thery property, in Italy there is a big problem about merchandising, specially in central and south Italy, were all the merchandising is not original, have big problem with the taxes that are the dobule than the ones in France and Spain, have some problem with TV money...
As a Fan of Bayern Munich i can hardly hold back my tears ;)

a European statistical research.
Juventus win cause in Europe there are millions of south italian emigrates, and south Italians are all fan of Juventus or Napoli.


Juventus
Fans in Italy 11.040.000
Fans in Europe 7.138.100
Total 18.178.100

Real Madrid
5.206.000
9.875.000
15.081.000

Manchester Utd.
4.366.000
9.051.000
13.417.000

Barcellona
4.836.000
6.993.000
10.829.300

Milan
4.572.000
4.560.000
9.132.500

Fonte: Sport+Markt 2003
timesonline.co.uk
September 13, 2004 By Ashling O'Connor

LURE OF UNITED DIMS AS REAL REEL IN FANS
Real Madrid have a potential worldwide fan base of half a billion people, according to research published today. Global Football Monitor, by Sport+Markt, found that 490 million were “very interested” in the Spanish club, whose stars include Zinedine Zidane, David Beckham and Ronaldo.
Previous research showed that Real were the best supported club in the key European markets of the UK, France, Germany, Italy and Spain, with in excess of 31 million fans more than Manchester United’s 14.2 million.
Now the global reach of the Bernabéu has eclipsed that of Old Trafford. United have 350 million potential fans, according to the survey, which involved more than 13,000 interviews in 13 markets. Even in the UK, 14 per cent of 15 to 69-year-olds were potential Real fans, just 6 per cent fewer than United

Survey's mean fuck all. United have 70 miilion paying members world wide. How many do Real have? Real are only the richest team because of United. We gave them Beckham and thats the main reason why there making so much money.

Survey's mean fuck all. United have 70 miilion paying members world wide.

I'm sorry, but that claim cannot go unchallenged. 70 million paying members? Rubbish! Go on. Admit it. You just made it up on the spot!

SkyBox
http://www.sansiro.net/web/business/ssb_big/big2_2.jpg

That is a terrible view!!

You cant see any of the Stadium! Or even if the ball gets kicked up high!

Not impressive

I'm sorry, but that claim cannot go unchallenged. 70 million paying members? Rubbish! Go on. Admit it. You just made it up on the spot!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3693304.stm
No I didnt make that up

Mr Goodfellow said Manchester United had 75 million fans worldwide, with 23 million in Europe, 4.6 million in the Americas, 40.7 million in Asia, and a further 5.9 million in South Africa.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3693304.stm
No I didnt make that up

Ah! See now, that's very, very different.

75 million Man Utd fans worldwide, I can believe. But Man Utd doesn't, as you originally claimed, have 70 million paying members. I doubt that there are even as many as 200,000 paying members.

As Mr Goodfellow also said in that article, "Someone can be a cradle-to-grave fan, but we will not necessarily have them spending anything with us."

1)2001
Inter 6.728.000 23%
Milan 5.818.000 20%

2)Juventus
Fans in Italy 11.040.000
Fans in Europe 7.138.100
Total 18.178.100

Real Madrid
5.206.000
9.875.000
15.081.000

Manchester Utd.
4.366.000
9.051.000
13.417.000

Barcellona
3)4.836.000
6.993.000
10.829.300



1) So... Inter has more supporters than Milan? I didn't know it! It's strange... the first team of the city is the one that has less supporters... :crazy: lol

2) I'd always listened that Manchester United was the club with more supporters worldwide, followed by Real Madrid (especially thanks to the last Golden Years of the Spanish club)

3) I remember some years ago in a Spanish TV programme it was said that Barcelona had 12 million supporters only in Spain... (and I'm among them :D ), but, like MoreOrLess says, it depends on what you consider a "supporter"...

:)

Ah! See now, that's very, very different.

75 million Man Utd fans worldwide, I can believe. But Man Utd doesn't, as you originally claimed, have 70 million paying members. I doubt that there are even as many as 200,000 paying members.

As Mr Goodfellow also said in that article, "Someone can be a cradle-to-grave fan, but we will not necessarily have them spending anything with us."

For 2004:
"During the year our membership scheme, One United, reached 193,000 members (2003 151,000 members)."

taken from the ManUtd-IR-site.

For 2004:
"During the year our membership scheme, One United, reached 193,000 members (2003 151,000 members)."

taken from the ManUtd-IR-site.

Why, thank you!

My guess was a pretty good one, then!

1) So... Inter has more supporters than Milan? I didn't know it! It's strange... the first team of the city is the one that has less supporters... :crazy: lol

2) I'd always listened that Manchester United was the club with more supporters worldwide, followed by Real Madrid (especially thanks to the last Golden Years of the Spanish club)

3) I remember some years ago in a Spanish TV programme it was said that Barcelona had 12 million supporters only in Spain... (and I'm among them :D ), but, like MoreOrLess says, it depends on what you consider a "supporter"...

:)

That numbers haven't a great statistical composition.
but, and i was born and i live in Milano, it well know that there are more supporter of Inter than Milan, not only in the city of Milano, but also around Italy.

don't forget another thing. Inter was for more than 80 years the first and most winner team of Milano.
Milan was the second team (at high level, sure).
only from the beginning of the 90's Milan won more championship and cups than Inter.

the number of supporter is a pure games.
Juventus have the highest numebr of supporter in Italy, but a large number of them are people who don't watch football matches and don't go to stadium.
at the question "which team do you support?" a very large number of women and men not intersted in football, they voted for Juventus.
'cause is the most winner team in Italy! and the most famous.
and for that reason, Juventus have more supporters outside the city of Torino and also outside the Region of Torino, the Piedmont.
and for the most part in the South Italy, where doesn't exist strong and winner football teams! and so people supports the strongest team!

another important thing about strong team of the big cities around the world is how many teams each city have.

in Europe, except London, normally the big cities have 1 strong team and 1 mid/low level team.
Madrid have the Real and the Atletico (that in the last 30 years....),
Barcelona have the Blaugrana and the poor Espanyol.
Munchen have the Bayern and the poor Munich 1860.
Torino have the strong Juve and the poor Torino.
so it's normal have more fans of Real in Madrid and of the Blaugrana in Barcelona.
....
the only exception is Milano, that is the only European city with 2 teams that won several times the Champions and the Intercontinental cups.
so fans are more or less 50% for Milan and 50% for Inter.
(in Barcelona i think that a only small part of the people are Espanyol fans!)

another great exception are London in Europe, with 7 or 8 teams in the first 2 leagues, and with the potential number of the fans that is divided in several clubs!
the same thing happen in South America, where big cities as Rio, Sao Paulo e Baires have more than 5, 6, 7 teams all at top levels!
and the fans are divided in all that teams.

another great exception are London in Europe, with 7 or 8 teams in the first 2 leagues, and with the potential number of the fans that is divided in several clubs!
the same thing happen in South America, where big cities as Rio, Sao Paulo e Baires have more than 5, 6, 7 teams all at top levels!
and the fans are divided in all that teams.

Yep. There are fourteen London clubs in the top four divisions in England. Currently, London has six Premiership teams:

Chelsea
Arsenal
Tottenham
West Ham
Charlton
Fulham

One division down are:

Crystal Palace
Queens Park Rangers
Millwall
Watford

Next division:

Brentford
MK Dons (formerly Wimbledon)

Next division:

Leyton Orient
Barnet

There are also many more clubs within a half hour drive of London. Of the clubs mentioned, Arsenal currently have the biggest real fan base, followed by Tottenham, with Chelsea obviously making rapid advances. West Ham are the only other genuinely big London club, in terms of fan base. Of those London clubs not currently in the Premiership, five have been in the top division within relatively recent memory: Crystal Palace, Watford, MK Dons (Wimbledon), QPR and Millwall.

And then, of course, there are Man Utd and Liverpool. Both have a large number of supporters in London.

Yep. There are fourteen London clubs in the top four divisions in England. Currently, London has six Premiership teams:

Chelsea
Arsenal
Tottenham
West Ham
Charlton
Fulham

One division down are:

Crystal Palace
Queens Park Rangers
Millwall
Watford

Next division:

Brentford
MK Dons (formerly Wimbledon)

Next division:

Leyton Orient
Barnet

There are also many more clubs within a half hour drive of London. Of the clubs mentioned, Arsenal currently have the biggest real fan base, followed by Tottenham, with Chelsea obviously making rapid advances. West Ham are the only other genuinely big London club, in terms of fan base. Of those London clubs not currently in the Premiership, five have been in the top division within relatively recent memory: Crystal Palace, Watford, MK Dons (Wimbledon), QPR and Millwall.

And then, of course, there are Man Utd and Liverpool. Both have a large number of supporters in London.


impressive!!!

In Milano city that is so small, there are 3 professional team.
Milan and Inter and the Brera (it's the name of a central neighborhood and they played at the Arena Civica, 30.000 seats).

but in the Conurbation, the are in the first 15 km outside the borders there are other 3 clubs:
Monza, Pro Sesto and Rhodense. Monza played for many decades in Serie B (our 2° league), and Rhodende many years in the 3th league.

in the Metropolitan Area, the biggest one (but smallest than the one of London), with 6.5/7.5 Millions of inhabitants there are other professional teams:

Legnano (played some years in Serie A during the 30's, 40's and 50's.
Varese (many years in A and B)
Como (many years in A)
Atalanta (46 years in A)
Fanfulla (many decades in the 3th league)
Lecco (3 years in A)
Pro Patria (12 years in A)
Seregno (played several times in B)
Alzano (it is in B)
Albino (several years in B)
Leffe (it played many years in B and today merged with the Albino)
Virescit Boccaleone (many years in C1, our 3th league)
Magenta (some years in B)
Vita Nova (few years in B)
PergoCrema (many years in B)
Crema (many, many years in B and now merged with the Pergocrema)
Vogherese (some years in B)
Pavia (few years in B)
Romanese (many years in third league)


totally are 21 clubs that played in the Serie A and Serie B.

all are located inside the MA of Milano, at not more than 45 km from the city centre!
Virescit and Romanese are the only 2 on that list that never played in A or B, but they spent many decades in the 3th League and for several times were very close to the promotion to Serie B.
Brera never played in the first 4 Leagues.

then there is another one dozen of Milan Metro Area clubs that in the last 70 years played at least in the 3th league.

Ah! See now, that's very, very different.

75 million Man Utd fans worldwide, I can believe. But Man Utd doesn't, as you originally claimed, have 70 million paying members. I doubt that there are even as many as 200,000 paying members.

As Mr Goodfellow also said in that article, "Someone can be a cradle-to-grave fan, but we will not necessarily have them spending anything with us."

Real madrid:

more than 400.000 paying members
http://www.realmadrid.com/articulo/con_robinho_carnet_madridistas_25576.htm

worldwide fan base of half a billion people (timesomline.co.uk)

:eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :)

Real madrid:

more than 400.000 paying members
http://www.realmadrid.com/articulo/con_robinho_carnet_madridistas_25576.htm

worldwide fan base of half a billion people (timesomline.co.uk)

:eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :)

The worldwide fan base figure is an utterly meaningless statistic. For starters, it's only a very rough estimate. Secondly, the chances are that 495 million of that so called 500 million fan base have never contributed a penny to Real Madrid's wealth, and nor will they. Thirdly, these statistics are compiled once or twice a year and show only that there is no loyalty in this sort of "support". I saw a recent report in which Man United's so called European support had fallen by 5 million or so over the previous six months, while Chelsea's had increased by 20 million.

Which tells me only one thing - that these people aren't supporters at all. They're just bandwagon jumpers who'll follow whichever team is currently successful and / or glamorous.

The worldwide fan base figure is an utterly meaningless statistic. For starters, it's only a very rough estimate. Secondly, the chances are that 495 million of that so called 500 million fan base have never contributed a penny to Real Madrid's wealth, and nor will they. Thirdly, these statistics are compiled once or twice a year and show only that there is no loyalty in this sort of "support". I saw a recent report in which Man United's so called European support had fallen by 5 million or so over the previous six months, while Chelsea's had increased by 20 million.

Which tells me only one thing - that these people aren't supporters at all. They're just bandwagon jumpers who'll follow whichever team is currently successful and / or glamorous.

:dunno:

The worldwide fan base figure is an utterly meaningless statistic. For starters, it's only a very rough estimate. Secondly, the chances are that 495 million of that so called 500 million fan base have never contributed a penny to Real Madrid's wealth, and nor will they. Thirdly, these statistics are compiled once or twice a year and show only that there is no loyalty in this sort of "support". I saw a recent report in which Man United's so called European support had fallen by 5 million or so over the previous six months, while Chelsea's had increased by 20 million.

Which tells me only one thing - that these people aren't supporters at all. They're just bandwagon jumpers who'll follow whichever team is currently successful and / or glamorous.


completely agree with you.

This is a cracking little stadium, that nobody knows about. It's in Trieste, Italy. Capacity is 32 454. US Triestina Calcio play in the stadium. AC Milan played here in the Champions League for one season.

http://www.fussballtempel.net/uefa/ITA/Nereo_Rocco.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/italien/nereo_rocco/100.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/italien/nereo_rocco/130.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/italien/nereo_rocco/140.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/italien/nereo_rocco/150.jpg

http://www.stadionwelt.de/stadionwelt_stadien/templates/stadionlisten/italien/nereo_rocco/110.jpg

http://www.fussballtempel.net/uefa/ITA/Nereo_Rocco2.jpg

AC Milan played here in the Champions League for one season.

Why?

I actually knew of this stadium. And have always liked the looks of it. Speakingh of AC Milan, Nereo Rocco actually reminds me of a little San Siro, with the columns and steepness of the stands and closeness to the pitch.

Why?

I actually knew of this stadium. And have always liked the looks of it. Speakingh of AC Milan, Nereo Rocco actually reminds me of a little San Siro, with the columns and steepness of the stands and closeness to the pitch.

They were banned from the San Siro. It might have just been the one game though. I can't remeber the year, but it was about 10 years ago. Inter done the same as well.

http://newswww.bbc.net.uk/sport1/hi/football/uefa_cup/1604938.stm

Great steepness

Please post any developments on venue construction, city information/pictures, and anything else related to the Torino 2006 Winter Olympics in this thread.

The Winter Olympics begin Feb. 10th 2006!!!!!!

http://www.winecountry.it/assets/articles/torino06/olympic06.gif

http://www.tuttohockey.com/A_img/Macotte%20Torino%202006.jpg

What are those, marshmellows?

I love Trieste, city in a beautiful setting nice coastline and just a couple of hours drive north you can enjoy some of the best skiing in Europe.

Yeah the stands are very steep!

No... they are snow and ice....

Italian thread for Torino 2006 olympic games

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=256956

This kind of stadium should be built more in Italy (in larger version for the big clubs however).

Much better than 95% of the Serie A stadiums!

Hi,

Any 1 got any pics of the revamped Stadio Comunale, plus I heard that the Stadio delle Alpi is going to get a make over next season. Any one got any images of what the Stadio delle Alpi is going to look like after work has finished.

http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_menu/past_future/pictures/future_stadiums/torino_juventus_arena.shtml

One of the designer of this web is one of the architects of the future Juve Stadium, Angelo Spampinato.

I'd like to get info and pics of the new Juve training complex (MondoJuve). Maybe somebody in this forums can help me.

Apologies if already posted.
Milan vice-president Adriano Galliani has revealed that the Rossoneri plan to leave their Giuseppe Meazza Stadium.

The stadium, built in 1926 by Piero Pirelli for Milan, is also the home to city-rivals Internazionale and it is after one of their former players Giuseppe Meazza that the ground is named after.

Galliani has now confirmed that Milan plan to relocate away from the San Siro-based arena.

http://home.skysports.com/list.asp?hlid=346672&CPID=21&clid=&lid=8&title=Milan+announce+move

"We will follow the examples set in Germany, England and America." :cheers2:

Great news ! Let them play somewhere outside Milano in a stadium named after a big sponsor... or will they call it 'Stadio Berlusconi' ?

Finally Inter will play in its very own Guiseppe Meazza :cheers:

Finally Inter will play in its very own Guiseppe Meazza :cheers:

Wrong, because Inter is also planning to build it's own stadium in a quarter called Bovisa, so that at the moment nobody knows what is the future of the Giuseppe Meazza (San Siro) Stadium.

If this is a serious proposal and not politcal games then I'd expect the new stadium to be larger than the Schalke Arena.

If this is a serious proposal and not politcal games then I'd expect the new stadium to be larger than the Schalke Arena.

dont. thats the whole point.
have a smaller, high quality, atmospheric sold-out true home venue filled with money-making facilities.

dont. thats the whole point.
have a smaller, high quality, atmospheric sold-out true home venue filled with money-making facilities.

AC Milans average attendance has been over 60K in recent years(much higher than that for Inter/Juve games I'd imagine) so I find it hard to believe they'd build a ground much smaller than that. As far as I'm aware Italian clubs are not allowed to have standing room so to achieve the same capacity the Schalke Arena has for league games it would need to be larger.

If this is a serious proposal and not politcal games then I'd expect the new stadium to be larger than the Schalke Arena.
I think this is not a serious proposal: it's a game to buy San Siro stadium at a cheaper price

Infact both Inter and Milan are now contracting with Milano municipality, which is San Siro owner, to buy the stadium together
Since the beggining either Massimo Moratti (Inter owner) either Adriano Galliani (Milan vice-president) affirmed they wanted to build a new soccer stadium for their teams... I think this is a suspect behaviour
And not only this: Inter commissioned an evaluation of San Siro to Pirelli Real Estate which estimated the stadium value is many many less than the one required by municipality.
Do you know who is Inter main sponsor since more than ten years? Pirelli of course!
Infact its evaluation of San Siro is ridiculous

In all this there is a problem more: San Siro is not UEFA omologated
There is a project, called Quarto Anello (means Fourth Ring, but it's not really a ring of seats added to the third one), that planned a radical refurbishment of San Siro, to omologate it and to create a sort of "soccer park" all around the stadium, with many facilities and other venues where to buy, eat, play several sport games...
The project is in collaboration with Inter F.C. and Milan A.C. and it's subordinated to San Siro sale; municipality hasn't the money for this project 'cause it tought they were the two teams to co-finance it
Now what will happen with this project: if in few years they won't complete UEFA omologation yet San Siro could face a bann from European competions and Milan and Inter could have to play in other cities European Cups matches

I remember when this came up before either you or another italian poster pointed this out aswell. What exactly was/is the "forth ring" project going to entail? The main grevance they seemed to have before was lack of falicites, the only way I could see that being changed was if the exterior of the stadium was rebuilt as more of a wall rather than an overhang.

The San Siro kicks ass, why would they want to leave? Maybe it's a facade, maybe not. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

I remember when this came up before either you or another italian poster pointed this out aswell. What exactly was/is the "forth ring" project going to entail? The main grevance they seemed to have before was lack of falicites, the only way I could see that being changed was if the exterior of the stadium was rebuilt as more of a wall rather than an overhang.
This is a first version of Quarto Anello project (now totally changed) but it can explain what conceptually is: a "ring" of facilities sorrounding the stadium

http://www.archphoto.it/IMAGES/boeri/pianta.jpg

http://www.archphoto.it/IMAGES/boeri/vista_notturna-3-copy.jpg

http://www.archphoto.it/IMAGES/boeri/vista-3.jpg

This complete rethinking of the spaces out of the stadium will permit even to place farer the gates to enter the stadium as UEFA wants, now are very close

Good news.

Glad to see the back of the red and blacks.

Brilliant staium though has to be said the seat do make the stadium look a bit tacky (no colour realy) it would take ages to replace the seats biy if they replaced them with type of seats used in England then it would look better.

http://www.evenements-et-voyages.com/images/stade_milan_san_siro.jpg

http://www.goalstorm.com/images/venues/ita/milan.jpg

http://www.globalstadia.com/campo_sansiro2.jpg

Still one of the best stadiums in the world a truely brilliant arena.

Nice pics, how old are they?

Torino 2006 Olympic Games OVAL

New speed skating arena

The Oval Speed Skating Arena will be built for the Torino 2006 Olympic Games next to the Lingotto, the first FIAT factory in Turin, reconverted into a multifunctional space.
The main concepts which characterise the design are three: simplicity, clarity and functionality.
As for simplicity, the design aims at reinterpreting the language of the adjacent Lingotto building by Mattè Trucco and of Renzo Piano’s reconversion; the building has a very simple and regular layout except the irregularity of three big pods.
As for clarity, the pods identify three precise functions during the Olympic use (accesses and service for VIPS and Olympic family, press, organisations staff) and in the post-Olympic use (service for a possible subdivision of the building into three areas).
As for functionality, the main objective of the design is to realise a building which can assure high agonistic performances during the Olympics and a versatile post-Olympic use as an exhibitions seat.
The functional design is very simple: a building of 215 x 115 m with a maximum capacity of about 8300 spectators, one single rectangular main hall, the accesses to the main services on the east, the services pods on the west, two large façades on the south and north sides.
During the Olympics the three pods will be used for VIPs, Olympic family, press and management. After the Olympics two pods will be transformed into meeting rooms and the first floor will become a terrace overlooking the main hall that presents a large versatile space with a rich structure; a large glazed and partially curved wall on the north side visually connects the building to the Lingotto.
The roof has an very simple geometric shape, its asymmetric shape reflects the need to reduce the volume in relation to the stands as much as possible; the two “fins” are the functional consequence of the partitioning of the inside.

http://www.europaconcorsi.com/db/cache/pub/pub_1560_w500h500q75bw1_2069458445.jpg

http://www.europaconcorsi.com/db/cache/pub/pub_1560_w500h500q75bw1_282479986.jpg

http://www.europaconcorsi.com/db/cache/pub/pub_1560_w500h500q75bw1_1876078962.jpg

http://www.europaconcorsi.com/db/cache/pub/pub_1560_w500h500q75bw1_481741123.jpg

http://www.europaconcorsi.com/db/cache/pub/pub_1560_w500h500q75bw1_857096985.jpg

http://www.europaconcorsi.com/db/cache/pub/pub_1560_w500h500q75bw1_1361874348.jpg

http://www.europaconcorsi.com/db/cache/pub/pub_1560_w500h500q75bw1_1656861784.jpg

http://www.studiozoppini.it/Project/Pr_torino/prosp.jpg

:cheers:

I like it, it's a shame though that speedskating stadia are always built with little spectator capacity. I think speedskating could easily attract crowds around 20.000.
I like the roofconstruction, nicely done.

it looks ok, but the capacity is in the basement, you could easily count the spectators....

:cheers:

I don't like it. Nothing special. Good outside, but ugly inside.

I like it, it's a shame though that speedskating stadia are always built with little spectator capacity. I think speedskating could easily attract crowds around 20.000.
I like the roofconstruction, nicely done.
It probably could attract crowds of 30.000 but what are they going to use all of those seats for after the Olympics? That's the problem with hosting them. You need so many specialized stadia and arenas that often times go unused after the Olympics are over. It's not worth it to put that much money into a facitlity that will only be utilized for two weeks.

I do really love the design of the place though. It's really cool.

XCRunner is right Torino isn't a big city

Are they still planning to lock drug-takers up at Torino?

Wait whens the Olympics? I thought its like a month away.

http://www.extratorino.it/img_special/special_alta_2191.jpg

http://www.extratorino.it/img_special/special_alta_2192.jpg

http://www.extratorino.it/img_special/special_alta_2181.jpg

http://www.extratorino.it/img_special/special_alta_2188.jpg

http://www.extratorino.it/img_special/special_alta_2102.jpg

http://www.extratorino.it/img_special/special_alta_2103.jpg

http://www.extratorino.it/img_special/special_alta_2105.jpg

http://www.extratorino.it/img_special/special_alta_2106.jpg

Wow! It looks like one of the larger Winter Olympic Stadiums, and brand-new too! :D

What's the seating capacity?

cool...olympic facilities

Nice pics. That palce looks really cool, and the capacity looks HUGE!

http://images.virgilio.it/n_canali/sapere/gallery/Torino_Tour/4332a4fd728f5_big.jpg

Wow! It looks like one of the larger Winter Olympic Stadiums, and brand-new too! :D

What's the seating capacity?


the capacity is only 27.000 (35.000 for the Olympics....)

The Stadium is the old one in Turin, renewed (it was the one used for the football matches od Juventus FC and Torino Calcio, before the construction of the "Italia '90" Delle Alpi stadium).

The old version of this stadium had only two rings and a small covering for the spectators. it was built by Mussolini for the first Univerisiad ever, in 1930. Its first name was "Stadio Mussolini", after WWII renamed "Stadio Comunale" (Municipal Stadium).

Actually Torino Calcio will play there from the next season, and Juventus FC will renew the Delle Alpi stadium.... "one stadium for each football team"... like in England.

the capacity is only 27.000 (35.000 for the Olympics....)

The Stadium is the old one in Turin, renewed (it was the one used for the football matches od Juventus FC and Torino Calcio, before the construction of the "Italia '90" Delle Alpi stadium).

The old version of this stadium had only two rings and a small covering for the spectators. it was built by Mussolini for the first Univerisiad ever, in 1930. Its first name was "Stadio Mussolini", after WWII renamed "Stadio Comunale" (Municipal Stadium).

Actually Torino Calcio will play there from the next season, and Juventus FC will renew the Delle Alpi stadium.... "one stadium for each football team"... like in England.

I thought Torino bankrupted?

as a matter of curiousity who has the larger average home attendances, inter or milan?

64k last season for Milan and 59k for Inter although the derby is normally near full.

I thought Torino bankrupted?

yes...


but thanxs to "strange" italian laws it had the possibility to restart from the "Serie B".

Torino has not anymore the property of the "olympic Stadium", but at 99% the Olympic stadium (with a new name) will be the home of Torino.

only for the next season (and maybe already at the end of this one) Juventus and Torino will play togheter in the olympic stadium, while Juventus will restructure the Delle Alpi to make it its new home.

...it was built by Mussolini...
Mussolini for the Olympics, then we get Hitler's Olympiastadion for the World Cup! Seems we're hitting all the high notes this year in Europe. :D

I think it would be a pity that both teams leave this amazing stadium, one of my favourites and 2nd largest football stadium in Europe at the moment.

Mussolini for the Olympics, then we get Hitler's Olympiastadion for the World Cup! Seems we're hitting all the high notes this year in Europe. :D

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/5738/artemiofranchi53ic.jpg

look at that....

that's the Florence stadium also built by Mussolini in 30s (and renewed for Italia '90).

Its form recall a "D" that stands for "Duce".... (Mussolini "nickname".. or "title" ;))



this word inspired Hitler's "Fuhrer" (both words mean kinda "leader", or "guide").

Now that all venues are ready to host the XX Winter Olympic Games I want to offer you some pics..
I hope you will appreciate it.. :)

starting with Torino..


Palavela, Figure Skating and Short Track Speed Skating
Capacity: 8000/10,000 seats

http://tinypic.com/mcdabs.gif

http://tinypic.com/mcdbwo.gif

http://tinypic.com/mcdc88.gif

http://tinypic.com/mcdco8.jpg

http://tinypic.com/mcdi4j.gif

http://tinypic.com/mcdifr.gif

http://www.lastampa.it/redazione/cmsfoto/20051121151737_strutture2006/01-palavela.jpg http://www.lastampa.it/redazione/cmsfoto/20051121151737_strutture2006/09-palavela.jpg

http://www.lastampa.it/redazione/cmsfoto/20051121151737_strutture2006/10-palavela.jpg



the Oval Lingotto, Speed Skating
Capacity: 8000 seats

http://tinypic.com/iwhik3.jpg

http://tinypic.com/ip18wl.jpg http://www.europaconcorsi.com/db/cache/pub/pub_1560_w500h500q75bw1_282479986.jpg

http://tinypic.com/ip130k.jpg

http://www.europaconcorsi.com/db/cache/pub/pub_1560_w500h500q75bw1_481741123.jpg http://www.europaconcorsi.com/db/cache/pub/pub_1560_w500h500q75bw1_2069458445.jpg

the Olympic Stadium, Ceremonies and the PalaIsozaki, Hockey

http://tinypic.com/mcexjc.jpg

http://tinypic.com/mceycl.gif

http://tinypic.com/mcezwy.gif

http://tinypic.com/ip12cj.jpg

http://www.lastampa.it/redazione/cmsfoto/20051121151737_strutture2006/03-stadio.jpg http://www.lastampa.it/redazione/cmsfoto/20051121151737_strutture2006/02-stadio.jpg

http://tinypic.com/iwhjz6.jpg

http://tinypic.com/ip136h.jpg

Palahockey Torino 2006

The new building was in fact designed by Arata Isozaki with Giuseppe Amaro and Marco Brizio who took great care to ensure that it would be usable after the Olympics have ended, giving rise to an "event factory", versatile and flexible because of its moveable floors and stands, thus permitting the interior layout to be modified and making the hockey stadium suitable for concerts, conventions and shows too.
The building is on 4 levels: a basement at 7,50 metres below ground, with a competition rink and service facilities, an intermediate level at 3.75 metres below ground for the Olympic family, the media and the sports federations; ground level, used for the entrances and for easy access to the stands; and a floor at 6 metres above ground which serves as a perimeter gallery for circulation containing refreshment facilities.
The hockey rink has been placed at 7.50 metres below ground to reduce the height of the building and the stands are also partially below ground: an idea that has also avoided the need for long emergency stairs, turning them into brief exit routes to the exterior.
When the public enters the complex they arrive at a point halfway up the stands, from which they either go up or down to reach their seats.
On the exterior the Palahockey looks like a large rectangular stainless steel box, suspended over a cement and glass base. The panels, with an matt bubble finish, give the building a dynamic and "vibrating" appearance, as well as reflecting the surroundings and creating light effects. The staggered and irregular arrangement of the panels also increases this illusion of "movement".
Inside, on the contrary, there are perforated and sound absorbent aluminium panels to reduce the level of sound. Ceilings too are in matt-finish stainless steel, to create continuity with the facade, thus confirming the idea of a steel box inside too.
At ground level, on the contrary, the facades on the longer sides are in glass and can be opened, thus creating continuity with the park and the square outside.

The other sides are faced with lightweight cement panels. The exterior paving is in Luserna stone bordering large areas of concrete and grey stone chips.
The same stone is used to face the underground airshaft and for the curbs around the lamps with three rotating projectors used to light up the façade of the building. The construction of this new complex is part of a broader scheme to redefine the area, where the existing structures were designed for the Football World Cup in 1934.
Indeed, this is where the municipal stadium is, as well as the "Maratona" Tower and the Piazza d'Armi park. This new project aims to define a scenario in which existing facilities are refurbished and integrated by new buildings.

Some pics of this fantastic palahockey built for Turin 2006 Winter games!

http://www.europaconcorsi.com/db/pub/images/9042/100153358.jpg

http://www.europaconcorsi.com/db/pub/images/9042/1106110272.jpg

http://www.europaconcorsi.com/db/pub/images/9042/1117914798.jpg

http://www.promozioneacciaio.it/imgs/dossier/principali/08_big.jpg

http://www.promozioneacciaio.it/imgs/dossier/galleria/08_02.jpg

http://www.promozioneacciaio.it/imgs/dossier/galleria/08_04.jpg

http://www.promozioneacciaio.it/imgs/dossier/galleria/08_05.jpg

http://www.floornature.com/worldaround/img_magazine/palahokey_1_popup.jpg

Is that steel roof on the stadio Communale permanent ?

Who's the architect?

Who's the architect?

Perhaps Arata Isozaki !

Rome was chosen to host the 2009 World Swimming Championships. For this event new infrastructure will be built, the main project is Santiago Calatrava's "City of Sport" with the aquatic stadium. A few weeks ago there was a presentation of the first model of the project (a massing model).Some pictures (quality of the pics is not great unfortunaly :sleepy: ). I will update this thread when there is a better model and renderings :) .

http://www.nuovatorvergata.org/nuke/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/2006_mondialinuoto/Plastico%20Calatrava%20%285%29.JPG


http://www.nuovatorvergata.org/nuke/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/2006_mondialinuoto/Plastico%20Calatrava%20%282%29.JPG

Calatrava indeed.

a weird and fresh pic of the Juventus' home.


http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4421/dellealpiedaltro1804060069ki.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

When are they gonna start the remodeling of the place?

people dont like it but when its full the atmosphere is amazing its like a colousium

When are they gonna start the remodeling of the place?

at the end of the season, probably after the end of Torino FC Serie B's playoff.

Next year Juventus and Torino will play in the brand-new Olympic Stadium, during the renewal of Delle Alpi.

Then Torino will rest at the Olympic Stadium, which probably will be renamed "Grande Torino" stadium in memory of the legendary team of the 40s.

Juventus will play in the renewed Delle Alpi which will be renamed with a name of a sponsor... it seems that it will be Siemens so --> Siemens Arena.

people dont like it but when its full the atmosphere is amazing its like a colousium

u right yo...

sadly the new arena will have a capacity of 33.000 seats only, but it will be finally a soccer stadium and not an Olympic Stadium... :)

people dont like it but when its full the atmosphere is amazing its like a colousium

Yeah but how often has that been the case over the past few seasons?

true the juve fans hate it that why they stopped coming as protest. i think the problem is the location of it.

u right yo...

sadly the new arena will have a capacity of 33.000 seats only, but it will be finally a soccer stadium and not an Olympic Stadium... :)

Only 33,000 seats? I thought it would have at least 40,000. It's kind of sad that the most successful team in Italian football will get such a small stadium. Could it even be part of any future EC or WC bids?

Where is the stadium?

^^ :D




http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/7299/calatr29gc.jpg

Isn't the main reason the people of Turin do not go to Dell Alpi because of its location and not just the dimensions of the current stadium.

Supposedly the old Stadio Communale, now called the Winter Olympics stadium, used to be the home ground of Juventus up until the 1990 World Cup and they used to get 60,000 a game there largely due to its central location in Turin.

The Juve fans are mad, that stadium flippin amazing, cant believe they want another one!

Juve match tickets are very expansive respect all the other Italian teams.
a part of that the large part of Juve fans aren't in Torino or in Piedmont, but in the whole Italy.
for the large part in South Italy and for another big part in the northern part of Milan Metro Area.
when in the past Juve played some matches of Uefa Cup in San Siro (Milan's stadium) there were the sold out everytime (85.000 people).

so, i think that a 33.000 stadium for Juve is good, cause the average of an entire championship in the home matche is ...lowest than than capacity!
i think that are many years that Juve don't have a sold out at home, so the new stadium should be small only for 1 or 2 matches in an entire championship and cups.

@Durbsboi.
the Delle Alpi, actually stadium of Juve is really beautiful as architecture, but is terrifiant to see a footbal match.
really terrifiant.

@Durbsboi.
the Delle Alpi, actually stadium of Juve is really beautiful as architecture, but is terrifiant to see a footbal match.
really terrifiant.

fortunately... they will keep the external architecture... because of a deal with the Turin Municipality.

that's why the capacity could not be more of 33.000, caused by the limited space for the new, internal cover for the seats.

anyway only in Italy could happen that a new Stadium is being built in another stadium built only 15 years ago. ridicolous...

anyway only in Italy could happen that a new Stadium is being built in another stadium built only 15 years ago. ridicolous...

i'm not sure...there are dozens of stadiums around the world that have doubled the cost during the works.

the new Wembley is a funny joke! it should be ended 1 months ago...but no one know when it will be finished.
the FA Cup final will be played also that year in Cardiff, and the big company that is building the new Wembley is really close to the financial crack.

the wonderful Montreal Olympic stadium was a tragedy...it was built for the 1976 games and the people of Montreal is STILL paying for!
it was the first stadium in the world with a removable roof. unfortunally it was opened 1 time. not more.
the day that workers ended they opened the roof.
today is still opened....

in California, at San Francisco - Berkeley there is a University stadium that is exactley built over one of the most bigger Faults of North America. that big stadium is every year a little big larger...and i don't think that it's one of the most confortable and safe place...in California!

the newst roof of an important German stadium built for the 2006 WC, have big problems with the rain....that filtred as a FALL in the field ground from some holes!

...

people dont like it but when its full the atmosphere is amazing its like a colousium

its never full so theres never an amazing atmosphere.

its never full so theres never an amazing atmosphere.

correct.
and more, there is the atlethic field that separates people from the ground.
if you want to see something similar to a coliseum in Italy there are only 2 stadiums, San Siro in Milano and Marassi in Genoa, both built ONLY for football, without atlethic field and built with a "vertical" shape, and not, as in Usa as big cup.

If they sell out every time they play home games in San Siro, why don't they relocate there? They would make a fortune in comparison to staying put in Turin.

cause in Italy, and also in all the rest of Europe we don't use the relocation for Sports Clubs.
it never happened in Football, and only few times in the last decades for Volleyball, Basketball and Ice Hockey.
but NEVER in football.

can you imagine the L.A. Lakers that next year will play in New York???

or the Manchester Utd that will play in London????


mmhhh...

top teams in Italian Football take money not from stadiums but from TV and sponsor.
so, can have also small stadium and few people.

The LA Lakers were originally from Minneapolis, therefore "The Lakers", not too many lakes around LA.

Most of Man U's support comes from London.

Anyhow, I understand your point. 'Tradition'. Mind you I recall Juventus flirting with the idea by playing the odd match up there a few years ago. Are you telling me the boss of Juventus didn't consider the idea?

Moving a team to another city just isn't something for Europeans. The real supporters hate other cities because of their football clubs. If Ajax was moved to Rotterdam, man I couldn't imagine what would happen. People will come with spears, molotov-cocktails and stuff and their will be riots all across the city! (not really but to show you how bad it is ;))

^^^^^^^^

Yes, I have been to Italy a number of times and seen it for myself.

10-15 years ago there were some rumors saying that Juventus was moving from Turin to Palermo, but it never happened.

Ajax and Rotterdam = Holland

The LA Lakers were originally from Minneapolis, therefore "The Lakers", not too many lakes around LA.

Most of Man U's support comes from London.

Anyhow, I understand your point. 'Tradition'. Mind you I recall Juventus flirting with the idea by playing the odd match up there a few years ago. Are you telling me the boss of Juventus didn't consider the idea?


the Lakers were moved from Minneapolis to LA in the beginnings of the 50's, when NBA in Usa has an average of public as the Alpins Ski in Sudan and there were matches on TVs.
the same thing happened with the Dodgers in the MLB.
today isn't impossible that a big team moves from Ny to LA.
in Usa happened, but with the low level teams, and for a different "conception" of sports. more commercial and less linked with the tradition.
in Europe a team is very often an expression of the city.
Barcelona FC is the Spriti of Catalan people.
Roma AC is more than a footbal club for the people of the Italian capital.
the same thing for the Napoli, that today is in the 3th series and sometimes have 70.000 people at stadium!

Juventus is a little bit different. it was settled in a city that is not famous to have great passions. people of Torino is know in Italy to be not very passionate. a little bit..."british".
then, from the 20's the owners are the Agnelli family, a dynasty that controlled the FIAT, that for many decades had in Torino more than 100.000 people that worked for them.
so it wasn't easy that the workers of Fiat should also Juve Fans!
Juve have the most part of fans in South Italy, cause, except Napoli, in all that part of the country there were NEVER good football team.
the fews that played in the top series were everytime relegated or bad loosers.
so, people, became Juve fan, cause Juve won!
the other big area of Juve supporter is the north Milan, cause the 2 main team of the Metro Area are both settled in Milano, and a larga, large part of people that live in the Metro Area have a big rivality with the "capital" of the region. so, they are for a large part Juve fans.

the boss' of Juve talked about a transfer of Juve in the North Milan Metro Area (close to Monza) only for 1 reason:
they want have a good price from the City Council of Torino for the new stadium!

and they had that.
so now, they'll can built a stadium, small, but with shops, restaurants, bars, museum and many other.

Should be great when finished.

But It seems, if you look at exemples like munich or Rennes, that more the stadium is beautiful/comfortable/with good pitch view, the more the team attracts spectators.

with a much better stadum, Juve should welcom more viewers so if the Dell Alpi average attendance is aroud 29.000, you must count on a 40.000-more average attendance with this great football arena.

What puzzles me is that Rome has 2 clubs, with a running track and they have NO problems at all getting 50, 60, 70k attendances. True supporters would follow them anywhere. There is a lot more to Juves crowd problems than something as simple as a stadium.

All things come to an end and maybe Juventus would be better off playing out of Milan. The club is an "All-Itally" team anyhow and Turin is a mainly Torino FC city.

Obviously the residents of Turin wouldn't really complain too loudly if the club pulled up stumps and headed to Milan.

Moving a team to another city just isn't something for Europeans. The real supporters hate other cities because of their football clubs. If Ajax was moved to Rotterdam, man I couldn't imagine what would happen. People will come with spears, molotov-cocktails and stuff and their will be riots all across the city! (not really but to show you how bad it is ;))

Ajax moving to 010? :rofl: :badnews:

I don't even want to imagine what would happen. I think there's a good possibility there would be riots with dozens of murdered people. And I didn't meant it as a joke.

An interesting blurb from the web on the Juventus/Torino "farce"

"When I spoke to the owner of one of the shops in Turin who sell tickets for the Juventus games, he told me that he rarely sell tickets to people coming from Turin. Almost all the tickets he sell goes to people from other Italian cities and foreign fans. Another thing that has to be mentioned is that to each home game Juventus play, statistically almost 50% of the fans come from outside of Turin to watch the game. Switzerland and France are always well represented, and thousands of fans travel from Milano and the other Northern Italian cities every week to watch Juventus. Regions like Lombardia, Veneto, Emilia Romagna, Liguria, Marche and Sicilia always contribute with many fans. Juventus have huge support in Milano and the fans living there would like Juventus to move away from Turin. They mean that Juventus would fill up their stadium if they moved closer to Milano, for example to Novara. And they always argue with the Juventus fans from Turin about why they have to come to Turin to see the games, when instead the fans from Turin could come to Milano where Juventus enjoy a bigger support."

some new and better pictures of the "City of Sports"model :)

also part of the project the new spectacular bridge in Calatrava style with a 70 meter high pylon :

http://www.urbanistica.comune.roma.it/attachment/554494plastico_palazzo_sport.JPG


http://www.veltroniroma.it/archimg/cit%20sport%20plast%202581_img.jpg

http://www.veltroniroma.it/archimg/cit%20spor%20conf582_img.jpg

http://www.veltroniroma.it/archimg/cit%20sport%20plast583_img.jpg



http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/73/calator3ef.jpg

I wonder what the inside looks like?

Is it my idea or Mr. Calatrava keeps repeating himself :? :shocked:
Rome

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/4201/citsportplast583img8sa.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Valencia City of Arts

http://img287.imageshack.us/img287/1920/img8m0st.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/7200/039073cac10ty.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Athens Olympic Complex

http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/5118/pb1400942nh.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/6512/complex30he.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

By the way the stadium and the surrounding area look really nice! :okay:

maybe he's doing it on purpose?
like try to make the arch-thingy everywhere so people can see and say "oh! that must be calatrava!"

YES! a signature!!!

:bow:

YES! a signature!!!

Well,i don't think Calatrava needs a signature...his projects are unique
and easily recognizable :)

it is under construction and there are new renderings. The project is far more ambitious now : it includes a multifunctional arena with 15000 seats, a tower for the university of Tor Vergata, a sports museum and many more buildings that still need to be designed (the flat white structures).


watch the movie :) :

http://tv.repubblica.it/home_page.php?playmode=player&cont_id=8314&fromplayer=8314


http://www.repubblica.it/2006/05/gallerie/cronaca/progetto-calatrava/omniroma100213672103175213_big.jpg

http://www.repubblica.it/2006/05/gallerie/cronaca/progetto-calatrava/esterne211747592103175300_big.jpg


http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/6448/070109cam01bfijas0100am4.jpg

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/2963/070109camfijaspd9.jpg

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/2765/070109camfijas0007ih8.jpg

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/9099/070109camfijas0011hp6.jpg

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/6610/070109camfijas0013od5.jpg

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/9064/070109cam08ant0200ra1.jpg

I like the clean lines and even the arches (even if they are a little cynically repeated to ensure the project is seen as 'his' - but don't get me started on architects and the subject of ego).

The one thing I'm not too keen on is the grandeur of the surroundings. From the gardens of Versailles to the approaches to the Olympiastadion in Berlin, I find these long, wide and straight areas symbolic of the very worst excesses of power. I'm sure this isn't intended and I'm not accusing Calatrava of being a fascist or anything but it does rather chime with that ilk of client.

I much prefer the deliberately broken and curved lines shown by the walkways in the renders for the London 2012 Olympic Park. Much more egalitarian!

fit an astral pool in the indoor arena part and host all aquatic events at this venue in 2009.

i love it, but is this development in the middle of nowhere or what? lol

I like the clean lines and even the arches (even if they are a little cynically repeated to ensure the project is seen as 'his' - but don't get me started on architects and the subject of ego).

The one thing I'm not too keen on is the grandeur of the surroundings. From the gardens of Versailles to the approaches to the Olympiastadion in Berlin, I find these long, wide and straight areas symbolic of the very worst excesses of power. I'm sure this isn't intended and I'm not accusing Calatrava of being a fascist or anything but it does rather chime with that ilk of client.




indeed the landscaping might seem a little bit over the top, with a touch of megalomania but Calatrava got his inspiration from the Circus Maximus :) :

http://www.historyforkids.org/learn/romans/games/pictures/circusmaximus.jpg

i love it, but is this development in the middle of nowhere or what? lol

yes, but it is in a part of the city that is developing rapidly : a big hospital, a university campus... and within a few years it will have a subway connection with Rome's new subway : Metro C .

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/9064/070109cam08ant0200ra1.jpg


That's a beautiful tower and stadium. More than worthy of an Olympics. I hope it stays as clean as in those renders :)

wow, that looks like an awesome 1rst rate sports complex. Good for Rome.:)

Will there really be that much greenery?

I LOVE IT.
I HOPE IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

There have been a spree of great aquatics facilities lately. This one to be built in Rome for the 2009 Aquatics Championships is gorgeous. The 'Water Cube' they built for the Beijing Olympic Games next summer is brilliant. I'm curious to see whether you get the sensation of being under water in there.

Montreal's 2005 Aquatics Championships facility was beautiful for another reason. It's serene outdoor setting on an island park in front of downtown.

And don't forget this, which will be going up in London:

http://www.leisureopportunities.co.uk/images/271106-Aquatic-Centre.jpg

Does this mean the Swimming stadium used for the 1960 Summer Olympics will not be used for the event?

This is just pure brilliance. This is everything that i like about architecture :applause:

With the audience boom of the last years, after the crisis of the late '90s and early '00s, now in Italy there are various projects for bigger and more modern arenas; some are already quite advanced.

- Rome: new 15,000 seats arena ready for 2009

- Siena: new 11,000 seats arena ready for 2010

- Bologna: project for a new city arena, probably 15-16,000 seats.


Other cities have smaller arenas in project or already under work (Cantù, Reggio Emilia, Genoa, Naples, Biella).

I'll post renderings and news a.s.a.p. :)

horrible project, Calatrava Sucks

Classical design flaw there by Calatrava. He designed the arena with to much air inside. A similar flawed arena is the Stockholm Globe arena where the atmosphere dies because of the expansive interior. He should have opted for a low roof as so the indoor experience remains, now the atmosphere will simply dissapear right upp into the ovesized roof.

Italy is a dense and populous country right? And their #2 or #3 sport is B-Ball right??? If so, I would like to ask, why not build a 20 000 seat arena? Is there no demand for it or is there a club that can probably pull one off and doesn;t buil one? If so why not?

Sorry about the questions, I'm just curious.

There are bigger arenas in Puerto RIco.

Any renders?

Italy is a dense and populous country right? And their #2 or #3 sport is B-Ball right??? If so, I would like to ask, why not build a 20 000 seat arena? Is there no demand for it or is there a club that can probably pull one off and doesn;t buil one? If so why not?

Sorry about the questions, I'm just curious.

1 soccer
2 basketball
3 volleyball
4 ice-hockey

The stadia and arenas theme is a complex one in Italy ... it's not so easy to build one and a big one ... at least till some time ago.
Then 14,000-16,000 seats are usually enough for most places, and the Bologna's one will be probably more near 18,000-19,000 than 15,000.

We'll see.

Any renders?

This is a preliminary one for the Roma's new arena

http://comune.roma.it/repository/ContentManagement/information/N797711466/Calatrava3.jpg

Right now
http://www.comune.roma.it/was/repository/ContentManagement/information/N797711466/Calatrava0.jpg

Italy is a dense and populous country right? And their #2 or #3 sport is B-Ball right??? If so, I would like to ask, why not build a 20 000 seat arena? Is there no demand for it or is there a club that can probably pull one off and doesn;t buil one? If so why not?

Sorry about the questions, I'm just curious.

No offence but if they don't need one why build one. Kind of like why didn't Toronto build a 50,000 seat soccer stadium? Build what you need.

1 soccer
2 basketball
3 volleyball
4 ice-hockey

The stadia and arenas theme is a complex one in Italy ... it's not so easy to build one and a big one ... at least till some time ago.
Then 14,000-16,000 seats are usually enough for most places, and the Bologna's one will be probably more near 18,000-19,000 than 15,000.

We'll see.

I thought Rugby was big too?

I thought Rugby was big too?

Mainly the national team.

As national league I put him at 5th after ice-hockey; at 6th probably baseball and then waterpolo.


Oh, and for a canadian this photo from Italy should be probably quite shocking, right ? ;)

http://www.curvadelmilano.com/albums/prova-album/b_MI_BZ_1990_Forum.sized.jpg

I understand basketball's popularity in Italy, but that other Canadian sport is a bit of a surprise.

Italy is a dense and populous country right? And their #2 or #3 sport is B-Ball right??? If so, I would like to ask, why not build a 20 000 seat arena? Is there no demand for it or is there a club that can probably pull one off and doesn;t buil one? If so why not?

Sorry about the questions, I'm just curious.

The biggest Italian clubs with the most fanatical and interested fans are based in smaller cities or ,Bolognia,Treviso, Sienna.Clubs in Milano,Rome are not that much supported and in this cities people like or seem to like football more. What is more some traditional italian powerhouses Cantu,Varese are now struggling to remain top division.I don't know why but italians don't have big arenas and never fullfil even their smaller arenas.

The biggest Italian clubs with the most fanatical and interested fans are based in smaller cities or ,Bolognia,Treviso, Sienna.Clubs in Milano,Rome are not that much supported and in this cities people like or seem to like football more. What is more some traditional italian powerhouses Cantu,Varese are now struggling to remain top division.I don't know why but italians don't have big arenas and never fullfil even their smaller arenas.

It depends.

And BTW, after the crisis of late '90s/early '00s even in the metropolis like Milan and Rome the love for basketball has return on big levels, just see how many times The Milan's Forum and the Rome's Lottomatica arena have been full in the last 2-3 years.

The two Bologna's teams make sold out nearly every game ( Virtus has had an average of 7,600 this last season) and also Siena's old arena is usually almost full.

Then also Naples waits the reconstruction of the Mario Argento arena, that will be easily filled by the hot people of Naples.

Last, but not least, some big cities like Turin, Genoa and Verona are working to return in the pro leagues with some big projects.

Oh, I see. Thanks for the info man! :-)

What about Torino?Do they have a basketball team there?

Italian cities could be potential candidates for a Euro-NHL is the Europeans ever managed to get their acts together.

Italian cities could be potential candidates for a Euro-NHL is the Europeans ever managed to get their acts together.

We hosted the Ice Hockey World Championship back in 1994.

Perhaps the NHL should have kicked off the season in an Italian city instead of London.

what is the biggest Baskeball arena of Italy now? And do you have any photo?

Perhaps the NHL should have kicked off the season in an Italian city instead of London.

Well, in a place like Milan or Bolzano they would make sold-out without any doubts ...

what is the biggest Baskeball arena of Italy now? And do you have any photo?

Actually the biggest italian arena is the Isozaki arena of Turin, with around 12,500.
But at the moment Turin has not a team in the Pro leagues (A1 and Lega2).

Then there are the "big 3" with currently teams in the Pros

Milan's Datchforum ~12,000
http://media.telebasket.com/pics/50543_m400.jpg

Rome's Lottomatica arena ~ 11,500
http://www.euroleague.net/resourceserver/2516/95e4e809-63e6-4a8c-8253-eeb54a815126/fff/rglang/en-US/filename/95e.jpg

Pesaro's Adriatic Arena 10,340
http://www.adriaticarena.it/uploads/pics/BPApallacan_2_03.jpg

^^ they look bigger than the size you mention.. interesting.

Also they don't look old

Yeah, they look bigger

Well, those are the official capacities for basketball/sport events.

In some games of the past these arena had bigger audiences: in example there were something like 16,000 or even 17,000 people at Lottomatica arena for the 1983 Final Rome Vs Milan, and something like 13,000 for the 1996 final between Milan and Bologna at Datchforum.

These 3 arenas aren't that old:

Rome -1960, but it had big renovation works in 2001-2003 (which also brought down the official capacity from 16,300 to 11,500)
Milan - 1990
Pesaro - 1996

^^ohhh, I see.

I liked them very much and I hope new arenas will be nice looking as well :okay:

Don't you think to organize any big tournement soon?

^^ohhh, I see.

I liked them very much and I hope new arenas will be nice looking as well :okay:

Don't you think to organize any big tournement soon?

With the new arena, Rome want to host 2009 or 2010 Euroleague Final4 and then Italy want to host the basketball world championship in 2014.

The new Inter stadium in Milan is supposedly going to be based on this ground I have heard.

The new Inter stadium in Milan is supposedly going to be based on this ground I have heard.

Do you have more info about the new Inter stadium? Didn't know they are planning to build an own stadium.

The story with Internazionale in Milan is that they are having difficulties with the Milan city council in getting them to sell San Siro to both Inter and AC Milan.

So, Inter has decided to build their own ground. Near Milan somewhere. It was recently on their website. They mentioned they would be basing the architecture on this stadium in Lisbon.

Now it could be bluff to get the Milan City Council to the negotiating table. Who knows.

Thing is Inter is not exactly short of cash. It is also the 2nd most supported team in Italy after Juventus.

I hope Inter gets their new stadium built.

As great of a sporting nation Italy is, it probably has the worst stadiums of any major sporting power.

It's good to see a nice stadium to go alongside Milan and Genoa's in the works.

Milan? What Milan are you talking about? AC Milan? Inter Milan? In case of the former, I've never heard a new stadium is planned for AC Milan and in case of the latter, I've ever heard that Moratti is considering constructing a new stadium for Inter outside of Milano but that's just in the planning stage. Any kind of action was never seen for that.

Milan? What Milan are you talking about? AC Milan? Inter Milan? In case of the former, I've never heard a new stadium is planned for AC Milan and in case of the latter, I've ever heard that Moratti is considering constructing a new stadium for Inter outside of Milano but that's just in the planning stage. Any kind of action was never seen for that.

I mean as a good stadium, not a new one.

As great of a sporting nation Italy is, it probably has the worst stadiums of any major sporting power.

It's good to see a nice stadium to go alongside Milan and Genoa's in the works.

Any links about the stadium in Genoa?
Btw Fiorentina has also a project for a new stadium. Was on their website a few days ago but can't find it anymore :(

Most Italian stadiums are tired and in need of major overhauls. The reason they don't is because Serie A is 2nd rate league with no fan interest

Any links about the stadium in Genoa?
Btw Fiorentina has also a project for a new stadium. Was on their website a few days ago but can't find it anymore :(

do you mean this one? ---> http://www.fiorentinanews.com/CuteEditor/Uploads/Stefano/stadionuovo.jpg it's the only thing i could find :dunno:

^^ Yeah, it was this one.
There was also a small text. Cap would be between 40k and 50k if I remeber correctly.

San Siro in my opinion is fantastico!

If you had to improve it I would remove the massive fences at each end. Fans need to be more restrained with their emotions and resist chucking things at players.

Also they need to clean the stadium properly. You need to take a newspaper and sit on that because those chairs are filthy.

The sightlines, acoustics etc.. are 2nd to none in the world of soccer.

Most Italian stadiums are tired and in need of major overhauls. The reason they don't is because Serie A is 2nd rate league with no fan interest

lol what a comment, around 20 years ago they were averaging 40,000 in the same terrible stadiums, television is the problem, they haven't had the churn the premier league has had, new fans replacing old. New stadiums might help this!

Is what it there a plans of building to make a basket arèna bugger some years?

Lol, this is the only thread about development news with no pics, renderings and no news! Rofl!

Most Italian stadiums are tired and in need of major overhauls. The reason they don't is because Serie A is 2nd rate league with no fan interest

Lol, you have no clue.
The real reason is stadiums are public owned so no club puts money into them. Hopefully things are changing though, and in the next few years we'll see private stadiums in this country as well (Inter FC, Roma, Juventus, Sampdoria etc.).

Lol, this is the only thread about development news with no pics, renderings and no news! Rofl!

:lol::lol::lol::ohno::ohno::ohno:

Fiorentina's owner, Della Valle, just presented to the press the new project for a huge entertainment park, in which there will be the new stadium of Fiorentina too.

The project has a lot of chances to be built.

At the moment, they're finding a good location for the complex, in the suburbs of Florence.

Here some renderings:

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/6253/1221834618871002nn4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/6928/1221834619321003oi5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/9606/1221834620094004qs3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/9619/1221834620438005gq9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/1332/1221834908225006et5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/8151/1221834908678007pz9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/5378/1221834909483009ap3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

looks like ~30,000-35,000

46.000 seats.

Is it just me,but does this look horrid?
It's just like a 2 year old came up with it.

It is very cool. It's a huge glass-cover, like a giant cloud.

The project is designed by Fuksas.

His works with glass are usually amazing.

Then the complex is very interesting with some museums, theme parks etc etc...

That is awful I really don't like it. Is it just me or is every new stadium proposal in Europe getting more and more over the top in terms of exterior design, I think someone needs to tell the architects that they are designing a sports arena not an art museum. It's like it's a competition for making the most over the top exterior, it started with the Allianz Arena and ever since then we have been seeing more and more stadiums coming up with a wacko design, don't get me wrong most look alright it's just getting a bit ridiculous now that every new stadium is having an exterior like this and it's even more disappointing when you see the interior where it tends to look like they have copied 15 designs before hand and have put little or no effort into it.
I think Fiorentina should be ambitious and go for a 50,000 capacity, after all they got an average attendance of 30,000+ last season and in a new stadium attendances would go up by at least 10,000 possibly 15,000, this would allow greater revenue.

Thats one of the reason why i like the new GS more.
For me stadiums is "playing field surrouned by stands".
So the stands are IMO much more important. Actually they are the place od the "user". The fans etc.

Nearly every new project just show the outside. Sometimes you do not have 1-2 interior pics.

Inter to leave San Siro as Moratti orders new stadium

MILAN, 15 October 2008 - Massimo Moratti is no doubt going to be the brains behind Inter's big move. Approval of his plans for the club's very own stadium is just around the corner. After careful examination and meticulous planning, the financial backing should confirmed by the end of the year, even by early December. Then, all going well, the Nerazzurri will be pensioning off San Siro from the 2012-2013 season.

MODELS - The exact location of the new stadium is a secret Moratti is very carefully guarding, even though fingers are already pointing at the Rho-Pero area, very close to the motorway and with good underground connections (red line). This is where the Olympic stadium would have been erected if Milan had won its bid for the 2000 Olympics. Moratti doesn't want to build a white elephant and the fact that Milan has been named as the Expo 2015 location will help him considerably in this regard, whatever the site finally picked. The plan at Inter headquarters is to build a 60,000 seater stadium along the lines of Ajax's ground (Amsterdam Arena, UEFA 5-star with seating for more than 50,000) and Bayern Munich's (Allianz Arena, 5-star plus with seating for almost 70,000 spectators). More specifically, the model Massimo Moratti's men seem to be more taken with is the Bavarian team's home ground: a multi-functional complex with restaurants (from upmarket establishments to self service eateries and traditional pubs), a shopping gallery and even a day-care centre to "park" children not that interested in the match. There are three main areas (entry depending on the ticket purchased): private business stands, VIP area and stands for the crowds.

http://english.gazzetta.it/Football/Primo_Piano/2008/10/15/sansiro.shtml

I didn't know an English version of Gazzetta was available. Great stuff. :)

I read in quite a few newspapers this week that not only Lazio but also Roma is planning a new stadium. Anyone has more infos about it?

What would happen to Olimpico?

They would leave it 100% for the National Team and Cup Final taking the example of Wembley from England.

Yeah, + concerts etc.

The source of all the news was corriere dello sport, but I can't find anything about it on their website, nor on the Roma website...
All I remember was that it will be on the outskirts of the city and it will be named after a former Roma player, so no sponser name.

Speaking of tear gas, many South Korean people including myself who had been students at universities in the 80s had a kind of nostalia for that. At that time, anti-government demonstrations by students happened in nearly all universities of South Korea every day. And the result? Yes, no demonstrations ever ended up with no tear bombs by the police.

Tear gases were everwhere inside the campus after a demonstration and they were immediately replaced by anothere gases because another demonstration followed right the next day. Conclusion : You could smell tear gases in university campuses all year long in the 80s! Hahaha...

Speaking of tear gas, many South Korean people including myself who had been students at universities in the 80s had a kind of nostalia for that. At that time, anti-government demonstrations by students happened in nearly all universities of South Korea every day. And the result? Yes, no demonstrations ever ended up with no tear bombs by the police.

Tear gases were everwhere inside the campus after a demonstration and they were immediately replaced by anothere gases because another demonstration followed right the next day. Conclusion : You could smell tear gases in university campuses all year long in the 80s! Hahaha...

I admit my ignorance about unrest in South Korea, so I don't know the purposes you were demonstrating for, but I suppose it was for noble ideas. Breathing tear gases 'cause a bunch of idiots want to punch up each other just because they support two different teams of running men in underwear is quite an irritating thing, for me.

Is there an awesome stadium completed in 2008 in your country?

Nominate it for SSC Stadium of the year 2008 (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=771596)

Is there an awesome stadium completed in 2008 in your country?

Nominate it for SSC Stadium of the year 2008 (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=771596)

No, Mo Rush. No stadium has completed in 2008 in Italy, except a little one (but very little in Teramo). So non italian stadiums in nomination.

Any pics of this small one?

http://www.limontasport.com/sport/news/new16_eng.htm

I think it's that one.

http://www.limontasport.com/sport/news/new16_eng.htm

I think it's that one.

Yes, it is. I had 4 pics about this stadium but I don't remember where I saved.

But it is a normal stadium :)

Italy really needs new modern stadiums. You have good football but in the same time one of the worst infrastructures.

yes we need them. i don't show you the pictures of Teramo Stadium guys, i feel ashamed for my country

Fiorentina's owner, Della Valle, just presented to the press the new project for a huge entertainment park, in which there will be the new stadium of Fiorentina too.

The project has a lot of chances to be built.

At the moment, they're finding a good location for the complex, in the suburbs of Florence.

Here some renderings:

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/6928/1221834619321003oi5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


go figure, they forgot the athletics track :lol:

Italy needs new stadiums, if italians want to organize an international contest, they should build new stadiums, Olympic Stadium (Rome), new Juventus arena (Torino) an San Siro (Milano) are not enough, some other cities like Florence, Bologna, Palermo, Napoli, Genova and maybe Verona should invest money in new stadiums or maybe by rebuilding the ones they have

^^^^^^^^^^^

Hehehe, stadiums, roads, law and order, sanitation, transport, etc.. etc..

In Italy they have bigger problems than where to stage 'circuses'.