There has been a lot of speculation over light rail in Canberra. In my opinion it will go ahead and things are already looking up. Does anybody have any inside information? What do you think about trams or a monorail? Will they be the answer to the poor public transport in Canberra. Personally I don't think there is much congestion on the roads as they are clearly the best in Australia. What does everybody else think?
http://actlightrail.info/

Lol, Bungendore? I'd love to see a tram following that mega-slow rail line between Queanbeyan and there (to a town with not much) - Pacific National's Fyshwick to Sandown oil train is scheduled for 50 mins in that section.

ACTION is such a pathetic operator. Don't spend any time in Canberra without a car - you'll regret it. Trust me.

Fine with me as long as ACT pays for everything. I don't want federal funding (which I contribute to in the form of taxes) to be paying for anything in that hole :ohno:

^^well Lot of it is, seeming as it is the capital....

Fine with me as long as ACT pays for everything. I don't want federal funding (which I contribute to in the form of taxes) to be paying for anything in that hole :ohno:

And where are you from L2?

Cause I'm pretty sure my taxes have paid for something in your little corner of the world?

Perhaps there isnt much congestion as they overspend on roads twice as wide as necessary but it would be good for the future to get Canberran's off the road & onto PT like the rest of Australia.

Perhaps there isnt much congestion as they overspend on roads twice as wide as necessary but it would be good for the future to get Canberran's off the road & onto PT like the rest of Australia.

That was true back when Canberra was under Federal rule, and Federal funding.

These days, the ACT Government only build as much as they think is needed and you get congestion spots. Let me point you to the Gungahlin Drive Extension (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=298223&highlight=Gungahlin) to show you what I mean.

building up density, not just in the city and town centres, but in the suburbs as well, will do wonders for getting people to stop relying on thier cars. I don't mean building skyscrapers in the middle of Isaacs, just providing more shopping locations and utilities spread around the suburbs - theres plenty of empty spaces in many suburbs where they could build.

^^ Canberra's suburban areas are dodgy - you never have housing fronting onto main roads, it's all in windy crescents etc which are designed to discourage through traffic, although the 'welfare on wheels' PT services use them. What a joke.

Too far gone to save :ohno:

And where are you from L2?
NSW

NSW

Can you be a bit more specific?

[QUOTE=L2;26212096]^^ Canberra's suburban areas are dodgy - you never have housing fronting onto main roads, it's all in windy crescents etc which are designed to discourage through traffic, although the 'welfare on wheels' PT services use them. What a joke.

Too far gone to save :ohno:

....?

NSW

It'd have to be Sydney. Making comments about other places without looking in their own backyard.

^^ Lol Shitney - don't live anywhere near there. Try again.

Have you ever noticed how that most people who think Canberra is pwnage either have lived their for all of their lives, or at least live there? You rarely see people from elsewhere who say it is awesomenews :ohno: :nuts:

I'm guessing North Coast. If everyone hates it then y is its population growing at a faster rate than NSW?

I'm guessing North Coast
Never been north of Dungog.

If everyone hates it then y is its population growing at a faster rate than NSW?
Plenty of jobs on offer from the public service, etc.

I can see why that some people would like living in Canberra - the sort who like living a relaxed life in some sprawl with a big 'Canberra Nature Park' next to it, drive to their public service job daily and want to raise a family (pity there's nowhere to send them to school in the ACT). It's not my cup of tea.

wild guess: Wollongong?

haha there's plenty of schools in Canberra

First off guys, stop this trolly nonsense and let's get back on topic.

Secondly, I have lived in Canberra all my life and I hate it. However I like the idea behind it, shame it's been ruined by stupid sixties town planning and choosing suburban sprawl over compact efficiency. That's why I simultaneously have little faith in future promises (constitution avenue upgrade??) yet want to see them work.

Thirdly, let's stop all this trolly nonsense and get back on topic.

IMO, if it does happen, stations at Tuggy, Belly, Gunny, Weston, Civic, Woden, Airport and Parliamnet, obviously not in that order. so every town centre, civic, airport and parliament

I can see why that some people would like living in Canberra - the sort who like living a relaxed life in some sprawl with a big 'Canberra Nature Park' next to it, drive to their public service job daily and want to raise a family (pity there's nowhere to send them to school in the ACT). It's not my cup of tea.

The magpies enjoyed swooping me when i lived there.. I got stiches casue they clawed my head

^^ The nickname for Woden is 'Wodz'

IMO, if it does happen, stations at Tuggy, Belly, Gunny, Weston, Civic, Woden, Airport and Parliamnet, obviously not in that order. so every town centre, civic, airport and parliament

The (proper) other nick names are just plain bogan like, Tuggers, Belco...Civz?
I made the last one up, hehe.

IMO, if it does happen, stations at Tuggy, Belly, Gunny, Weston, Civic, Woden, Airport and Parliamnet, obviously not in that order. so every town centre, civic, airport and parliament

That's wat the plan is. I don't see how they are going to link everything efficiently though through light rail because its not going to be as fast as a bus. The best thing if we get a light rail system i reckon is that the necessity for car parks won't be so high so they can get rid of all those car parks wasting space with commercial and residential developments and at least attempt to create some more ambience in Civic

^^ The nickname for Woden is 'Wodz'



The (proper) other nick names are just plain bogan like, Tuggers, Belco...Civz?
I made the last one up, hehe.

That's coz Tuggers is boganville. Belcompton is pretty popular lol

Since it's slower, light rail would work best in localised loop services, while the buses could take the faster trunk lines. Both networks could have thier own trunk and local routes to complement each other.

the ACT gov has granted a tender to PriceWaterhouseCoopers to develop a business case - this was in last week's news.

When ever i'm in tuggeranong I feel as if though i'm going to get jacked by kids with bleached rat tails.

Qeanbeyan is a whole other story.

I think a monorail would possibly work best because trams can often cause traffic problems. They definately need a form of light rail looping Civic and the airport imo.

Monorail? Hah, what wank.

To be honest, a busway network would go well in Canberra. The government could use it as a "stepping stone" to light rail.

^^ Why, the buses don't have problems in traffic in existing roads.

I remember they used to have a bus lane to Woden (yuck - terrible bus interchange) from the "Declared Civic Centre" but they started allowing some cars and taxis in it. What's with that?

Nobody wants to use Public Tranzport in Canbra anyway - it's a welfare service for the poor. Not helped by ACTION being a shitty operator with run-down "interchanges" and useless routez, not helped by da awful planning of the low-density shithole suburbs built from the 1960s-1980s that are the 'real' Canbra to the people who live there, not the lake which nobody sits around :)

^^ The nickname for Woden is 'Wodz'



The (proper) other nick names are just plain bogan like, Tuggers, Belco...Civz?
I made the last one up, hehe.

Haha, havent lived there since gee... 2002?

^^ Why, the buses don't have problems in traffic in existing roads.

I remember they used to have a bus lane to Woden (yuck - terrible bus interchange) from the "Declared Civic Centre" but they started allowing some cars and taxis in it. What's with that?

Nobody wants to use Public Tranzport in Canbra anyway - it's a welfare service for the poor. Not helped by ACTION being a shitty operator with run-down "interchanges" and useless routez, not helped by da awful planning of the low-density shithole suburbs built from the 1960s-1980s that are the 'real' Canbra to the people who live there, not the lake which nobody sits around :)

Why do you use the Canberra threads when you obviously hate the place. I know there isn't much to defend about the place but its a hell of a lot better than other places...

^^ You're right. It's better than Bourke or Walgett ;)

Wollongong, Newcastle

Wollongong, Newcastle
^^ :rofl: :rofl:

I knew you were from Wollongong

Why do you use the Canberra threads when you obviously hate the place. I know there isn't much to defend about the place but its a hell of a lot better than other places...


he's trolling us, mate. They feed off your anger :)

I knew you were from Wollongong
L2, the CityRail train is.

L2, the user is not.

he's trolling us, mate.
I'm just sharing my opinions/thoughts on Canbra :)

and they're perfectly valid points too, canberra at present offers nothing to be proud of. However in this particular thread they're not very constructive, we're trying to keep an 'optimistic' *cough* feel here..

Canberra is actually quite a nice looking place in certain areas and the natural landscape of the place is really nice. I'm proud of the ACT Brumbies and all the great Rugby players we produce. We also, surprisingly, have a really good night life. The ANU is regarded as the best university in Australia. We have as much to do in our small city as any other big city. All you can really knock Canberra on is the fact it has no beach, shit weather, too many hippies, too much sprawl, poort transport and poor urban planning and that it is a bit too small. Other than that its awesome, and most of those things don't matter that much

and they're perfectly valid points too, canberra at present offers nothing to be proud of.

Only in Canberra would a stupid fuckwit comment like that be allowed to go unpunished. What drugs are you on, moron?

L2, the CityRail train is.

L2, the user is not.


I'm just sharing my opinions/thoughts on Canbra :)

So, just for a moment, here are my thoughts on Wollongong. It's convenient that I just got back from there today, and my memory is still fresh.

The worst part of it is most definitely the 'City Centre'. It is run down, dirty, broken and painful on the eyes. It is situated next to a polluting steelworks. Traffic can't move freely because two lane roads running through the CBD have one lane dedicated to parking! I couldn't leave the way i wanted to because it took me four cross streets to find a street I could turn right onto. When we got better radio presenters (remember Marty and Erica, Canberrans?), the ones we kicked out wound up in Wollongong.

The only event I've been to in Wollongong and enjoyed was an Alex Lloyd concert, and the best place they could find to host it was in an RSL club.

Finally, the best part of it is Kiama, and it isn't even in the city limits.

Get a clue, get some pride, and start listing things you like about your own place of residence before you wantonly bust into a forum you're not welcome in and start popping off about what you dislike. I'd be quite happy to discuss the differences between our cities if you could be the least bit civil about it...

^^ Why on earth are you telling me about Wollongong? I don't live there - infact I don't live anywhere close to a coastal area.

Would you like it if I started lecturing you about Walgett?

you live in Walgett? I had to google that place to find out where it was.

^^ Umm, no.

It's a good example of somewhere that Canbraz is better than ;)

Canberra is actually suited to light rail along the Intertown corridors - i.e. a limited stops corridor with plenty of room for quarantined running and it can actually make use of the potentially higher capacity of light rail (over buses).

That said, I don't believe patronage levels currently warrant this and I would prefer a bus every 5 minutes to a LRV every 15 minutes. In addition, the intertown buses also extend beyond the interchanges to pick up pax from the horrible urban sprawl suburbs.

A busway was committed to in 2004 and then promptly cancelled iirc. In recent times, TAMS has again been looking at the potential for bus priority improvements on the Intertown corridor. I don't think you will see light rail for many years unless it is a political stunt.

Sorry for taking this thread away from the brink of retardation. With regard to Walgett - I've only been there once and it just happened to be the morning of pension day. Nothing was open except a service station (thankfully, as we needed petrol) and every other shop was completely closed up with steel bars. There was a long line of abos sitting on the gutter waiting for IGA (with its liquor store) to open so they could spend their pension money on grog and go smash up the town. The then Mrs ckf and I had to push on to Collarenebri to get some breakfast :nuts:

My grandmother did some 'time' in Walgett as a school teacher in WW2 and it seems the place has gone a long way downhill since.

Betty from Hey Dad, Mr Kelly's "Archeetect Secheetary" came from Walgett. I loved how she deleted things from the computer by liquid-papering the monitor.

On topic, if light rail were to go ahead in the ACT, it would act as a great opportunity to promote TODs along the corridors.

The TODs already exist, i.e. Belconnen, Civic, Woden and Tuggeranong ;)

There's very few opportunities between these places because of the nature of the corridors - wide arterial road/expressway reservations surrounded by insular enighbourhood units. There's some limited potential just south of Woden along Athllon Drive.

Canberra's much different to the rest of Australia due to is master planning.

there was a proposal back in 2002 or something to develop that patch you're talking about. Fortunately they didn't go ahead with that one because it was a very poor plan - a compact residential block, completely segregated from the rest of the district with only one way in and out (via Power St), and would have left a lot of wasted space around it.

However, it might be a good place to run the light rail line through.

This would be such a wast of money. There would be nowhere near the patronage levels required. They should spend the money on upgrading the quality of the buses and bus stations.

supply can lead demand in the case of PT but the local authorities must upzone land along the routes for it to work.

I think there is plenty of demand. The buses are overboardly cramped on peak hours.

Yeah but what about non peak times like the weekend? I don't think canberra people are ever going to get rid of their cars. It's too spread out.

Just seems like an awful lot of money to be spending on something that could be solved by improving the current set up a little bit.

I reckon they should just let one suburb go nuts, somewhere in the inner south or inner north, no height restrictions or anything.

i think LRT could work in the ACT...

On what routes? Between all the major satellite suburbs or just up the guts?

Better public/alternative transport is just one half of the solution. The other half is increasing density and mixed use - only then will people's dependence on cars decrease.

I totally agree, but where can they increase density on the major transport routes? Canberra is a sea of suburbia? Woden would probably work...

It looks like the result of the ACT election will be a minority Labor Government working with the Greens. As the Greens have a strong emphasis on public transport this may boost the new government's push for light rail in Canberra.

Plus the Greens have an emphasise on having a higher density of population.

...plus they are absolute nutbars.

How surprising - the "people" who live in Canbra are so dumb that they vote for the fucking Greens+Labor combo. Doesn't stack up well for the intelligence of ACT residents. Not that I care about what happens in that territory :)

No LR study coming in as no Libs for you!

How surprising - the "people" who live in Canbra are so dumb that they vote for the fucking Greens+Labor combo. Doesn't stack up well for the intelligence of ACT residents. Not that I care about what happens in that territory :)

No LR study coming in as no Libs for you!

I'm usually impartial to trolling and nonsense posts, however I'd really appreciate if we kept on topic, and tried to avoid insulting people and their intelligence based on our own opinions and "insights".

Regardless, as I resident of Canberra, I think Light Rail would severely damage the city's live-ability. I spent many years waking up to get on the trains in Melbourne, and say what you will, but I really didn't bring a positive experience out of the sprawling mess that is the City -> Epping line.

If managed correctly, it could work here, but I fail to see how the money could not be better spent on the ailing bus system, with it's decrepit interchanges and timetables that leave little room for night-time travel or safety.

How surprising - the "people" who live in Canbra are so dumb that they vote for the fucking Greens+Labor combo. Doesn't stack up well for the intelligence of ACT residents. Not that I care about what happens in that territory :)

No LR study coming in as no Libs for you!

If you'd paid a little more attention to the various campaigns, you'd find that the lib's plan to spend on transport involved more money for roads to and from gungahlin, money for an extra lane on parkes way - the trunk route linking the city with major roads to western belconnen, tuggeranong, woden, weston creek and the soon-to-be-developed molonglo, and more money for buses. Not a lot in there about LR though.

On the flipside, and completely retaining political impartiality, Labor already has a company working on a proposal. How about engaging your brain before opening your mouth.

As I said, I don't care about the ACT so I don't look at specific policies.

You should know that I'm a Liberal supporter by now ;)

As I said, I don't care about the ACT so I don't look at specific policies.

You should know that I'm a Liberal supporter by now ;)

So why even comment here. Push off.

A Liberal supporter? It shows. :lol:

So why even comment here. Push off.

A Liberal supporter? It shows. :lol:

Totally agreed. Only a mother could love that child.

Push off
Haven't heard that one before.

A Liberal supporter?
Let me guess - you're one of the Canbra idiots who voted for The Greens, as your token "Im good for the environment move", seeing as everybody in Canbra drives fuel guzzelling cars everywhere, smokes Winny Blues at Woden Int and lives in sprawl. Guess what? A vote for the Greens is a vote for Labor (Stanhope in your case)

At least you'll have more Greens than Deb Foskey now!

Pity that the only good Liberal rep in Canbra (Bill Stefaniak) has left - having said that, there are no good Labor ones.

I don't understand why people vote for greens. They are extremists and it was already hard building developments in Canberra, now its going to be harder. Are they going to allow back burning? Or can we expect another major bush fire due to their retardation. I'm pretty pissed off that those non qualified politicians/ dousche bags have even more power than they already did. But lets hope the labor government continues its development plans and green policies dont come into play

i came in at ten to six and donkey voted. hee haw.

back on topic! Griffin's original rail network plan including a heavy rail line and light rail (tram) network:

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/8201/p137xm6.th.jpg (http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=p137xm6.jpg)http://img525.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif (http://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php)

Wow, Canbra was so tiny then.

Now you have yucky sprawl all the way to Banks, all the way to some North-West suburbzorz (Charnie?) and most of the way to the NSW border on both the Federal and Barton Hwys :ohno:

I know, so much wasted space and pointless sprawl

Interesting graphic Brudl. I don't think theres any way that plan would be feasible right now though given the population density in these areas. Also the actual layout now is different from the original plan - eg the big roundabout in yarralumla.

Wow, Canbra was so tiny then.

Now you have yucky sprawl all the way to Banks, all the way to some North-West suburbzorz (Charnie?) and most of the way to the NSW border on both the Federal and Barton Hwys :ohno:

well... to be accurate... griffin's plan for the unbuilt city was relatively small. he did expect it to grow beyond the original plan for about 50,000ish.

I wouldn't say the sprawl is so yucky necessarily, I quite like the fact that I have a backyard. There are other cities in australia which have much more sprawl than we do. Our population density (ie, people per square kilometre of city land) is actually higher than brisbane or perth, and is on track to increase to the level of that of adelaide in coming years since the re-prioritisation of planning to allow higher density development in the inner (ie, already developed) areas of the city.

I'm thinking, the best method of alternative transport really is to introduce some sort of network of busways in the interim, to ease the current situation of cramped and low frequency intertown bus services, to greatly increase the frequency of single-suburb bus service (to make people want to rely on buses) and really focus development of job opportunities in the town centres.

High frequency bus services (like, every 5-10 minutes), running in a loop through each suburb (each having its own dedicated bus route) to the nearest interchange, and then high speed LR or busway would mean easy link up between the suburbs and the centres.

... ease the current situation of cramped and low frequency intertown bus services

They have a 5-minute frequency all day now on the Intertown routes!

Agree with the remainder of your post though - hopefully the ACT Government continues to invest in bus priority along the intertown and Civic-Gungahlin corridors.

I'm not exactly sure what was supposed to happen at some of those node points, where the heavy rail line (green) apparently has a stop, with the LR making a circle around it? I haven't been able to find any detailed information into that part of griffin's plan I'm afraid.

^^ not the whole day, after 7 i believe it drops to only 15 minutes on the intertown, even on friday night.

I'm not exactly sure what was supposed to happen at some of those node points, where the heavy rail line (green) apparently has a stop, with the LR making a circle around it? I haven't been able to find any detailed information into that part of griffin's plan I'm afraid.

Griffin was an architect, not a transport planner. Frankly it shows in his proposed PT network - it might have been acceptable in a time before widespread ownership of motor vehicles (and thus high amounts of captive pax) but it would not offer much today. He was also turfed out before he could prepare detailed plans for that sort of thing, so I doubt they exist.

^^ not the whole day, after 7 i believe it drops to only 15 minutes on the intertown, even on friday night.

7pm is not in the daytime :nuts: ;)

Griffin was an architect, not a transport planner. Frankly it shows in his proposed PT network - it might have been acceptable in a time before widespread ownership of motor vehicles (and thus high amounts of captive pax) but it would not offer much today. He was also turfed out before he could prepare detailed plans for that sort of thing, so I doubt they exist.


Yeah I agree with that. I think he was probably more a visionary than a details man. Everyone loves the concept of public transport, but to make it work, there are certain practicalities that have to be taken into account. IT takes more than just drawing neat looking lines on a map. Having said that, I don't believe Canberra looks much like his vision. Sure the roads and suburbs have the same layout in general, but if you look at some of his sketches, he envisioned grand parisian style boulevards that certainly aren't reflected in what you see in reality. My guess is that is was death by committee, where many of his grand ideas got watered down over time.

They have a 5-minute frequency all day now on the Intertown routes!

Agree with the remainder of your post though - hopefully the ACT Government continues to invest in bus priority along the intertown and Civic-Gungahlin corridors.

Except (like last night) when I had to wait 25 minutes for a bus home from Belconnen to Woden at 9:15, in the scary Belconnen Interchange. And that bus (at that hour) was packed!

from CT
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/transport-plan-could-halve-commute-to-civic-20120417-1x5y9.html