Rather than dragging the NZ Public Transport thread (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=463678) further off topic, I think it's time for a new thread. News, discussion, etc of rail related stuff that doesn't fit in the PT threads.

Here is something to start it off that I recently read in the National Freight Demands Study (http://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/Images/NewFolder-2/FREIGHT-STUDY-FINAL.pdf) [pdf]. I think it provides a good overview of some of the issues. (Sorry it's rather long.)

Developments in improving the infrastructure can be grouped as follows:


transit time reliability
clearances
load capacity (axle loads)
line capacity
extensions.

5.3.3 Transit time and reliability

A large number of the maintenance-risk issues are managed by reducing speeds (temporary speed restrictions). As a result, required work on track, sleepers and formation and structures (bridges and tunnels) may build up as limited funds are prioritised elsewhere, and overall transit time on a particular line may then increase. Increased expenditure by ONTRACK on maintenance on key lines is reducing speed restrictions and improving transit times. Further investment in formation maintenance and bridge upgrading is planned. ONTRACK has also invested in new major, railmaintenance machinery, including 40 new ballast wagons, a „dynamic track stabiliser', a ballast cleaner and a tamper, which will increase the length of line maintained in a year and speed its return to normal traffic transit times.

Much of the country's rail network runs on its original alignment. Some routes were realigned throughout the last century (eg, in the 1930s, 1950s and 1980s) but nowhere near as much as has been done on the highway network. Many lines still suffer from speed restrictions on tight curves and steep grades. Improvements to many of these are
quite feasible, given funding. Current thinking includes improvements on the alignment of the Otaki-Manakau section, a deviation from Kakariki to Porewa to avoid the steep grades into Marton, and easing a sharp, slow-speed curve north of Taihape. Longer term, and on a larger scale, grades on the coal route between the West Coast and Canterbury at Reefton, Cass and near Springfield could be eased, as could other curves on the Taihape - Taumarunui section.

Transit time also interacts with line capacity in terms of signalling and crossing loops. Signalling on the Rolleston - Arthur's Pass route is currently planned for upgrading to centralised traffic control and motorised points, which will improve speed, capacity and safety.

5.3.4 Clearances

A legacy of the nineteenth century construction is limited clearances, mainly through tunnels. The principal restriction is height rather than width, although height and width interact in the area of the curved roof of tight tunnels. Some usually less-used lines cannot take 9ft 6in-high containers, the modern „hi-cube' standard. Most principal lines can take these containers, albeit in some cases with limitations on the wagons that can be used, or with speed restrictions. The most important exceptions are Greymouth - Christchurch and North Auckland.

Currently, the line through the Manawatu Gorge to Napier, and the Marton-New Plymouth line are also restricted. A major project to remove the restrictive tunnel on the New Plymouth line has just been completed, and removal of the restrictive tunnels in the Manawatu Gorge will be completed this year.

On the Auckland-Tauranga and Invercargill-Port Chalmers routes, even higher containers, up to 10ft (3.05m), are allowed. These are special containers for internal use only, as they are also too large for export use. They are used mainly for dairy products as their size permits double stacking of product on pallets, and thus greater
efficiency. Double-stacking of standard pallet sizes is not possible in a 9ft 6in international container, a problem overcome for that journey by using slipsheets. Further work to extend the use of 3.05m containers throughout the network is feasible but is not currently planned.

In the longer term, clearances on the North Auckland line would need to be improved if Marsden Point becomes a major container port, but would require significant expenditure on a replacement for the Makarau tunnel, and as much again to improve many of the other 12 tunnels on the route between Auckland and Whangarei.

There are also plans to remove the first tunnel on the Rolleston - Arthur's Pass route, which is part of the Midland Line between Christchurch and the West Coast. This will improve speeds over that section but, because there are other restrictive tunnels further west, it will not improve clearances on the route as a whole.

5.3.5 Load capacity

Most of the network is capable of carrying 18-tonne axle loads. A 6-axle locomotive can therefore weigh a maximum of 108 tonnes and a 4-axle wagon a maximum of 72 tonnes. The most efficiently constructed wagon on the system at present has a tare weight of 15.5 tonnes, which means that it can carry 56.5 tonnes of freight (including containers).

Modern diesel-electric locomotives including most locomotives built for New Zealand's 1067mm gauge, weigh much more than 108 tonnes. Examples include Queensland's newest diesel-electrics at 119 and 120 tonnes. Given that the hauling power of a locomotive is at least partly related to the weight available for adhesion, an 18-tonne axle load is a limiting factor.

A target for the New Zealand rail network is therefore a 25-tonne axle load, a 39 percent increase on the 18-tonne load.

Both track and bridges are impacted by axle loads, and current track and bridges limit the ability to improve beyond 18 tonnes. It costs relatively little to design and build bridges for heavier loads, so code reviews are currently taking place so that new bridges will be built to carry 25-tonne axle loads. For some years, track has been built for a 22.5-tonne capability. But many bridges and much track remain from times before these standards were introduced, so a focused investment plan for a particular route is necessary before more than 18 tonnes is allowed. Bridges are the critical issue. An accelerated programme to replace the 2,900 wooden piers (521 bridges) is underway and 562m of bridge were replaced or upgraded in 2006-07.

Much of what is carried on New Zealand's rail and road networks is not dense enough to use more than 18-tonne axle loads and relatively few commodities would benefit from heavier axle loads. These include steel, coal, limestone, cement and bulk liquids such as wine in containers. International containers of some exports, such as some dairy
products, may also benefit. Import containers are usually lighter. Note though, that the trend to using 40-ft containers limits the usefulness of higher axle loads – the weight in a 40-ft container is limited by the structural strength of the container and the lifting capability of wharf cranes, which is usually less than 40 tonnes. This is well within the current 18-tonne axle load. Twenty-foot containers could well weigh in excess of 18.8 tonnes each; the practical limit for three of them on a wagon with an 18-tonne axle load. If 20-ft containers continue to be in common use, heavier axle loads may be beneficial.

KiwiRail is buying 100 new container wagons, mainly for Metroport traffic between Tauranga and Auckland. These are capable of an 80-tonne gross weight or 20-tonne axle load. With the tare weight of the wagon subtracted, it can carry nearly 62 tonnes of freight or three 20.5-tonne, 20-ft containers. Some older wagons could also have bogies
upgraded to 20-tonne axle load. These are both interim solutions, and further new container wagons could carry up to 65-tonne loads, still with a 20-tonne axle load. ONTRACK is actively looking at improving the Auckland-Hamilton line to carry 20-tonne axle loads as an early step on the way to 22.5 tonnes. Hamilton-Tauranga will be the next to follow.

Extending this to other routes would require significant expenditure.

5.3.6 Line capacity

Double-track sections of track have very high capacity in terms of the number of trains, depending on signal spacing. The main double-tracked routes outside suburban passenger areas are Papakura-Hamilton (90 km) and Heathcote-Islington in Christchurch (18km). The effective capacity of the Papakura-Hamilton line is limited by two singletracked sections (13km) from Auckland to Te Kauwhata and across the Waikato river at Ngaruawahia between Huntly and Hamilton. At present, they pose no real restriction on capacity.

Double track is being extended in West Auckland and Wellington, primarily for passenger trains. The freight network outside these routes is single tracked. The capacity of single-track routes is influenced by the number and length of crossing (passing) loops, and signalling systems. In much of the country these are appropriate to the traffic
demands on them. Most routes have relatively low-density traffic in terms of number of trains that are run.

When traffic is denser, lines can reach capacity constraints. On the Hamilton-Tauranga route the extension of crossing loops to 900 metres long and the construction of two new crossing loops, is underway at a cost of about $10 million. With the extension of a further loop east of the Kaimai tunnel, this expenditure will double the capacity of the line.

Replacing the signalling on the Midland line between Christchurch and the West Coast, noted above, will also increase the capacity of that line. Further improvements to crossing loops would benefit the North Island Main Trunk line (NIMT) in the central North Island and between Palmerston North and Waikanae.

5.3.7 Line extensions

The rail freight network reaches all significant parts of New Zealand, except Nelson. It also reaches all ports except Nelson and Marsden Point. A line is planned to connect Marsden Point to the network and work is underway to designate the route.

Further short extensions are likely to connect particular industrial plants directly to the network. The three currently under consideration are to a proposed cement works at Weston, near Oamaru (under action for designation), to a coal-loading facility (to be built this year) at Ikamatua, and a line to the dairy plant at Clandeboye.

The Onehunga branch is being reopened for passenger use. Part of the Rotorua branch near Putaruru is being reopened to serve a water-bottling plant. The remainder of the Rotorua branch may be reopened for passenger use if local plans to run passenger trains come to fruition.

While a number of parts of the network carry very light traffic, there are no current plans to close any of them.

5.3.8 Operations

Rail use is hampered by a lack of wagons and locomotives. As noted above, new container wagons have been purchased and a number of moth-balled wagons have been restored to service. With the return of rail freight to the government, the purchase of further new wagons is now being planned.

At present, there is heavy demand on the locomotive fleet at certain times of the year and the needs of freight have to compete with the growing demands for locomotives for passenger services, particularly in Auckland. Consequently, at these times there are no spare locomotives available for freight. Previously spare lower-powered locomotives have been refurbished and put into passenger service in Auckland. The purchase of new locomotives has been planned for some time, but not proceeded with because of the issues between Toll and ONTRACK. These issues have been resolved with the repurchase of the transport system, and the purchase of locomotives is now also planned. Meanwhile, some of the existing locomotive fleet has been improved, with larger engines and traction-control systems, significantly increasing the load the locomotives can haul up grades.

In recent years, container-transfer centres have been developed to expedite the movement of freight from road to rail. These are confined largely to main and secondary centres. Some expansion of this concept to other places is possible. Previous management linked the development of these sites to a reduction in direct access to industry via private sidings. This has reversed recently, but there are still issues with the availability of local train services to serve private sidings.

A similar concept ("inland ports") has been developed with the Metroport operation between Tauranga and South Auckland. The government is reported as having offered to contribute $6 million to the cost of providing rail access to the terminal, allowing the operation of shuttle trains from the port and taking heavy-vehicle traffic off the Auckland motorway network. This proposal is likely to go ahead.

I keep thinking that reinstating (and finishing) the old Nelson line along its original alignment could be a good thing. Most of the earth works are still there and it would enable Solid Energy to rail their coal to port in Nelson rather than all the way over to Lyttelton (LPC would of course hate this plan). It would also give a rather indirect (but fine for overnight) freight route between Nelson and Chch. After all Nelson is one of the fastest growing cities in the country. It is also the biggest city without a rail link and has a port.

I guess it would lose money by the trailer load if it didn't get the coal contract but at least it would help take a pile of trucks off the road (of course the trucking companies would hate this).

Maybe it isn't such a good idea after all.

I keep thinking that reinstating (and finishing) the old Nelson line along its original alignment could be a good thing. Most of the earth works are still there and it would enable Solid Energy to rail their coal to port in Nelson rather than all the way over to Lyttelton (LPC would of course hate this plan). It would also give a rather indirect (but fine for overnight) freight route between Nelson and Chch. After all Nelson is one of the fastest growing cities in the country. It is also the biggest city without a rail link and has a port.

I guess it would lose money by the trailer load if it didn't get the coal contract but at least it would help take a pile of trucks off the road (of course the trucking companies would hate this).

Maybe it isn't such a good idea after all.


rumours flew throughout the 1990's that it was going to reopen to serve the forest industry. It would be more viable to connect Nelson to Blenhiem providing a more direct link to Christchurch.

If this government is serious about developing a sustainable transport network then reopening the old line and linking with wesport would be a goer. not hopefull though.

I keep thinking that reinstating (and finishing) the old Nelson line along its original alignment could be a good thing. Most of the earth works are still there and it would enable Solid Energy to rail their coal to port in Nelson rather than all the way over to Lyttelton (LPC would of course hate this plan). It would also give a rather indirect (but fine for overnight) freight route between Nelson and Chch. After all Nelson is one of the fastest growing cities in the country. It is also the biggest city without a rail link and has a port.

I guess it would lose money by the trailer load if it didn't get the coal contract but at least it would help take a pile of trucks off the road (of course the trucking companies would hate this).

Maybe it isn't such a good idea after all.

If that line doesn't open, then perhaps the coastal shipping route is the next best option. That would allow access to near-by deep water ports, and links to N.Isle rail networks.

A couple of rail related things mentioned at the Waikato Transport Summit. Both articles from The National Business Review.

Rail boss outlines $1 billion spending plans
NBR (http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/rail-boss-outlines-1-billion-spending-plans-36602) - by Allan Swann | Friday October 17 2008 - 07:24am

New Zealand Railways Corporation acting CEO, William Peet, has laid out his roadmap for the country’s rail, throwing a few surprises into the mix.

Speaking at the Waikato Transport Summit this week, he laid out a clearer picture of how the $1 billion set aside for his state-owned enterprise would be spent over the next five years.

Mr Peet was appointed acting chief executive officer of the New Zealand Railways Corporation in October 2007 following the re-nationalisation of the rail sector.

Finance Minister Michael Cullen announced the government’s purchase of Toll NZ for $690 million in May 2008.

It was renamed KiwiRail, and with Ontrack and other entities now fall under the New Zealand Railways Corporation as subsidiaries.
Mr Peet summed up the birth of the entity succinctly, “we can’t shed costs faster than revenue.”

He was referring to the various stages of stalled infrastructure spending and funding on rail over the years, to justify the subsidies his corporation needed.

Controversy has stemmed from protectionist rules introduced to favour the newly formed company that effectively limit freight competition from the trucking companies.

They include the limiting of road tonnage and competing freight routes along rail corridors.

Of the $1 billion over five years, only $121 million is available this year, on top of the $80 million for Tranz Scenic lines to tidy up its operations.
The long-term plan is to spend the $1 billion on a new series of high power, double headed locomotives, rehabilitation of the railway network, the construction of freight hubs and IT upgrades.

“By 2010 we hope to be relatively stable,” Mr Peet said.
He also stressed that all spending of these funds would decided by the NZRC board, not the government: “there will be no pork barrel spending here.”

NBR understands there has been a suggestion from Dr Cullen’s office that the company may not have access to the full $1 billion and that the company may be pushed towards self-sufficiency well before the five-year term is up.

If there is, Mr Peet isn’t showing the look of a chief executive under pressure, even if he is only in the acting role at present.

“Look, we’re not just here to talk about how great rail is, we’re about action. Judge us by our actions,” he said.

Mr Peet believes that long term in a post-Kyoto, post-ETS world, carbon emissions mean that rail is really the only way to go in the long term.

He estimates rail is three to seven times more efficient than road transport, which is congested and approaching capacity with little hope for viable expansion.

Rail, on the other hand, he believes is “under-utilised,” noting that huge spends on highway upgrades to the North and West of Auckland are significantly more expensive than the $1 billion rail upgrade.

Mr Peet did joke that the Northern Expressway will one day become rail.

“We’re happy for them to run the busway till it chokes up, then they’ll come to us and look at rail,” he chuckled adding, “it’s a great corridor, and corridors are our right to exist.”

The system currently moves 14 million tonnes nationwide, and is focusing on expanding its corridors by double tracking north of Hamilton. The goal of the infrastructure build is to produce reliability – “its our first goal” – rather than being overly ambitious.

At this stage the railway network between Auckland and Hamilton can carry 56.5 tonnes. He’s aiming for 62 tonnes, once the first round of upgrades are complete.

In terms of the growth in rail-based freight, Transport Engineering Research New Zealand believes that it will increase 100% by 2020, and the recently released National Freight Demands Study pegged 75% growth by 2031.

Another problem getting focus is the 19 wooden bridges on the network that need to be “blown up” and rebuilt.

“They’re just not a good look for a modern railway,” he laughed.

Electrification of the freight lines is not on the cards. The capex required to electrify the network meant that the benefit cost per tonne wasn’t better than what they were achieving currently.

While confident commenting on rural lines, Mr Peet conceded that the Auckland metro upgrades would be nowhere near as easy; although he does believe that electric passenger rail from Auckland to Hamilton will be possible “much sooner than many people think.”

The company is one to two months into its electrification project to Papakura, and as he put it, “When we get that far, we’re going to ask ‘do you really want us to stop here?’”

Fonterra expands it's already large store operation in Hamilton. More rail freight.

New milk coolstore to take 4000 truckloads off the road
NBR (http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/new-milk-coolstore-take-4000-truckloads-road-36603) - by Allan Swann | Friday October 17 2008 - 07:26am

Fonterra’s whopping new Waikato Crawford Street coolstore is expected to boost the company’s cheese and cream efficiencies.

The coolstore is to be added to the 50,000 tonne Crawford St dry store, which was completed in August 2005, to instant success.

Crawford St offered a consolidated staging area for Fonterra’s Waikato dairy operations, particularly Te Rapa and Te Awamutu, which produce 55% of the regions milk.

Its key advantage is the direct link to the main rail trunk line juncture, allowing easy access to the Port of Auckland (72%) and Port of Tauranga (20%), and manufacturing and storage facilities at Te Awamutu, Morrinsville, Waitoa, Hautapu, Waharoa, Lichfield and Tirau. It also services Fonterra’s Te Rapa and Canpac operations.

In 2007, the facility accounted for 40% of KiwiRail’s operations in the region, pumping out 26771 Twenty Foot Equivalent Unit’s (TEUs). Fonterra projects the company will do 30,000 TEUs this year.
more (http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/new-milk-coolstore-take-4000-truckloads-road-36603)

It would really suck if there was electrification between Hamilton and Auckland but not Wellington and Palmerston North. I know that Auckland will use 25kvac like the current NIMT electrification so closing the gap will be easy. I know that Wellington uses 1500vdc but it is possible to have dual voltage locomotives, even the TGV in france uses both voltages. If we do get new electric locomotives I certainly hope that they will be dual voltage capable. At the very least maybe some of the current Ef's could be converted for dual voltage. They are 25kvac locomotives but as far as I know it is transformed to 1500vac and then rectified to 1500vdc inside the locomotive, so conversion should require just some kind of switch between running the power through the transformer and rectifier as is right now, and bypass the transformer and rectifier when running in Wellington.

Edit: The last two times a passenger service between Hamilton and Auckland has been tried it has failed (although without Britomart + such high fuel prices so it could be a different story this time around). So who knows how useful electric passenger services south of Papakura would be, but the Capital Connection is very well used, there was an article not so long ago about how crowded it got because 1 of the 8 carriages was out of service for maintenance.

Maybe while we're at it also electrify to Masterton. Quite a bit of freight their in future (logs/wood products) and it would be great if the Wairarapa Connection could be electrically hauled too.

^^ If freight is going to be used as a large part of the justification for electrification, Auckland-Hamilton is a lot more important than Wellington-Palmy.

I would like to see the Wellington system eventually converted to 25kV AC (although this is unlikely any time soon). I believe it is technically possible but probably bloody expensive. This sort of conversion was done in the UK - e.g. the lines out of Liverpool St and Fenchurch St in London were originally electrified at 1500V DC but were converted to 25kV AC (and the units too).

More endorsement...

Transport summit backs rail (http://www.stuff.co.nz/4731074a13.html)
By NIKKI PRESTON - Waikato Times | Saturday, 18 October 2008

New Zealand's transport system has come full circle, with companies looking at trains and coastal shipping as cheaper and greener alternatives to trucking.

While all forms of transport, including the possibility of air cargo were touched on at the Waikato transport summit in Hamilton this week, government organisations and primary goods firms favoured rail as the solution for taking pressure off the roads.

Currently, 92 per cent of freight, by weight, is transported via road, 6 per cent by rail, 2 per cent by coastal shipping and nothing is transported by air, according to the national freight demands study.

However, in terms of the length of haul, rail and coastal shipping have a larger share of the market, representing 15 per cent each. Road makes up the additional 70 per cent.

The regional council, Environment Waikato, said that though building the Waikato Expressway was its No 1 focus, it was also looking at reducing traffic and ensuring safety on the roads.

The council saw trains as a way to ensure safety and reducing New Zealand's footprint, chairman Peter Buckley said.

"It's just demonstrated that we are going back to the past of what we used to do with rail and coastal shipping. "With everything going into road we have taken a step back for the environment," he said. "With the amount of goods you can move on rail compared to the amount of diesel you use is quite significant."

Trains emit around four times less from carbon than heavy road vehicles, according to the study.

The research showed that for emissions of carbon dioxide in grams per tonne/km, road produced 123, heavy road 93, rail 23 and coastal shipping 14.

Milk and dairy products, logs and wood products and aggregates are among the most frequently carried products.

Dairy giant Fonterra began streamlining operations in 2003 and developed the Crawford St, Te Rapa, site, which mainly uses rail to transport its dry goods to its six Waikato sites.

The Te Rapa factory still uses trucks because there are no rail links with the site.

A new cool store planned at the Crawford St site is expected to reduce 4000 truck movements per annum when it opens in November next year.

Tony Smith, Fonterra's logistics manager of global trade, said trains had enabled Fonterra to replace 45,000 truck movements.

However, Fonterra still relied heavily on trucks, with 59 per cent of its stock still transported by road.

Mr Smith said 20 per cent of Fonterra's New Zealand business was transported by train and this accounted for 40 per cent of KiwiRail's business. Fonterra used only 8.5 per cent of the rail network at this stage.

William Peet, acting chief executive of the NZ Rail Corporation which operated the KiwiRail and OnTrack brands, said Waikato was an important business for the company and it planned to continue working with Fonterra and other dairy companies to encourage them to use trains as their preferred transport medium.

"We are just scratching the surface of how we work with them (Fonterra)," Mr Peet said. "We are still working on how we can do as much of their product as we possibly can."

The dairy companies were part of an aggressive strategy by the company to promote train use both in Waikato and nationally.

"The company had very very strong prospectives," he said. "The rail carrier could be used a lot more."

Mr Peet said that unlike his predecessors he planned to act rather than simply talk.

Using the $200 million-plus government funding would improve the network and NZ Rail was already in the process of ordering new trains to replace the locomotives.

NZ Rail denied it was getting into direct competition with truck operators.

"It's not rail versus road, it's how we get the best out of both," Mr Peet said.

"We are looking at how we can take trucks off the road, not today's trucks, but tomorrow's trucks.

Richard Paling, director of Richard Paling Consulting which conducted the study for the Transport Ministry, Economic Development Ministry and Land Transport New Zealand, said while the government had committed to investing in the train network, he did not think it would not be the sole focus.

"It is looking for a balanced transport network which involved rail, trucks and coastal shipping.

"It is recognised that the rail and coastal shipping will have an important part to play if the Government is going to achieve targets set out in its New Zealand Transport Strategy."

He did not think it was about rail competing for the same budget as the roading network, but said there was a lot of work to be done on New Zealand's road and as such projects like the Waikato Expressway had to be made a priority.

Port of Tauranga, which claims to handle 51 per cent more imported cargo than its nearest New Zealand competitor, said it was also committed to using trains as the best way to move goods to and from the port where possible.

This was because rail was between four and five times more efficient than truck, according to Port of Tauranga chief executive Mark Cairns.

"Rail is the appropriate mode with an increasing 40 per cent of cargo coming in and out of the port by rail," he said.

But Mr Cairns said ports were still key to transporting freight, with 98 per cent of freight passing through a port before it went elsewhere.

Its competitor, Ports of Auckland, agreed that trains were going to become more important, particularly in Auckland with its ongoing congestion problems.

Ports of Auckland managing director Jens Marsden said carbon emissions had moved to the top of the company's agenda.

"We want to invest in a sustainable future and eliminate a lot of waste in the transport sector."

--------

KiwiRail has recently taken delivery of 100 new container wagons.

60 for Tauranga - Auckland MetroPort service.
40 for general traffic.
Wagons can carry either three 20ft containers or a 40ft container and a 20ft container.
Capable of 20T axle load (subject to track & bridge upgrading).

(source: KiwiRail press release (http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU0810/S00597.htm))

http://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/34961/third-tax-cuts-could-go-acc


...there did not seem to be the money to fulfil big rail funding promises, Mr English said.

No change at all, we're just back to the 90's.

http://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/34961/third-tax-cuts-could-go-acc



Fuck you asshole. Fuck you. No change at all, we're just back to the 90's asshole shitheads.

Darn, that is a disappointment considering the headway we were making with KiwiRail.

The ACC issue is so predictable, I remember hearing about it yonks ago.

Effectively the funding shortfall only exists because ACC changed its policies in a way that meant it had to have all the possible funding necessary for all claims on the book at any one time (or something like that). Never mind that the money would only need to be paid out slowly... this made their liabilities leap hugely, even though in reality nothing had changed.

Do you have a link to any articles on that Jarbury? Nothing has come out in the media about that (not surprising though).

I wish I did NZ1. I very vaguely remember a few Herald articles about the issue back in 2006/2007 perhaps. Sorry I don't have any more information.

That's okay. Would be interesting to see how things started. I'm surprised that neither side of the house have brought this stuff up! Politicians :ohno:

Maybe it isn't as directly related as I'm linking the issues... but my main memory was that the change was a ticking time-bomb that required ACC to have masses more money than they needed to before. Which is pretty similar to what we've ended up with.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4797513a23917.html

start immediately on plans to curb the persistent growth in debt levels, dumping Labour's plans where they were unfunded, and trimming planned spending on KiwiRail.


An even more terrible start than I expected. I didn't think anything as terrible as dumping the renewable energy, biofuel and rail spending would occur this fast.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4797513a23917.html



Once again. Fuck you, Fuck you assholes. An even more terrible start than I expected. I didn't think anything as terrible as dumping the renewable energy, biofuel and rail spending would occur this fast.

I did, and so did the Green party. Can't say I'm surprised on this front at all.

I do wonder how many people who voted National are really starting to regret it...

... probably nowhere near enough as should be.

ONTRACK serves notice for Marsden Point rail designation
22/12/2008

ONTRACK, a member of the KiwiRail Group, confirmed today it has served a Notice of Requirement on Whangarei District Council for the designation of the Oakleigh to Marsden Point Rail link.
more (http://www.ontrack.govt.nz/news/2008/Pages/ONTRACKservesnoticeforMarsdenPointraildesignation.aspx)

I really think they should bring back national and regional rail services in NZ. The only centres in Nz with a proper, frequent, reliable railway system that I know of are Wellington, Auckland and Beleive it or not Masterton (the Wairarapa) Which could also be considered to be part of Wellington.

Do you have any idea how many billions would need to be spent to make inter-city and regional rail services a viable alternative to car or air travel? Heck, it takes TWO AND A HALF HOURS to train from Auckland to Hamilton, a distance of approximately 140km. That's an average speed of 56 km/h - just over half the open-road speed limit!

It's a great idea though.... perhaps when peak oil hits we'll have hope.

^^ Probably. It doesn't help that the Overlander always gets stuck behind an all-stopping suburban service throughout the Auckland metro. Bring on triple-tracking the NIMT to Papakura!

^^ I'm sure that Auckland - Hamilton was two hours when the Silver Fern railcars were used to Tauranga and Rotorua. That'd suggest that catching up with deferred maintenance would save 30min for a start.

^^ Probably. It doesn't help that the Overlander always gets stuck behind an all-stopping suburban service throughout the Auckland metro. Bring on triple-tracking the NIMT to Papakura!!

Once the urban systems are sorted and lauded (especially with an urban-biased media) the rest of NZ will realise trains are a viable, cheap, green and sometimes quicker alternative.

They should try to get a successful route around Christchurch on existing tracks. I know there is talk - even one popular route would be a great PR exercise. Auckland is slowly getting there, the city tunnel would greatly help!

Wellington is pretty much fine, improvements and extensions (Otaki happening? A few more to Palmy?) would bring the railways back into the thoughts of more of NZ. Old people love trains, and with an aging population, centres like Tauranga and Rotorua should be looked at too - I think they are though, but all talk so far.

Airport links woudl be useful too.

It would be great if we could get something like the QR tilt trains. They can go up to 160km/h, and got up to 200km/h on a test run. There is a diesel and electric version. They could initially be used on Masterton - Wellington, Palmerston North - Wellington, Auckland - Hamilton and Auckland - Tauranga routes, initially diesel then convert later to electric then place the diesels elsewhere on new routes.

Interestingly the new National MP for Otaki is actually interested in getting electric rail to Otaki.

I still think that significant investment would be necessary to make tilt trains worth it. It doesn't matter how fast a train can go if it gets stuck behind an all-stopping suburban train.

There should be a goal to run Auckland-Hamilton services in 90 minutes and Auckland to Tauranga services in 150 minutes. I think that a major realignment of the NIMT would be necessary between Pukekohe and Huntly for that to be possible - as the existing track is too curvy and unnecessarily heads east for a big loop just after Pukekohe. You would also need a 3rd "express" track within Auckland's metro area so that trains could pass all-stopping commuter services. This track would also be useful for freight and express trains from Pukekohe.

Hmmmm... I think that'll be about a billion dollars alone.

I can understand urban rail making sense, but inter-city/regional rail is probably not plausible again any time soon. As I recall, the Southerner service which ran Christchurch-Dunedin-Invercargill, was stopped because it needed government money to pay for it. It wasn't making any money at all as patronage had dropped dramatically since the 70s in favour of road and air. All the South Islands remaining passenger services are tourist attractions (Trans Coastal, Trans Alpine, and the tiny Kingston Flier and Taieri Gorge lines). Even the ones that actually go somewhere (Trans Alpine and Coastal) are there mainly for the journey, not the destination.

It's only not realistic because tracks are poor, running speeds are slow, services are infrequent and too expensive.

Correct those problems and make it rival the car and you'd get patronage. But of course in such a sparsely populated country, that would be quite a tall order to achieve.

At least someone is asking the question.

http://nz.biz.yahoo.com/090211/3/aq8a.html

I'd certainly take the train from WLG to AKL if it was a bit faster. 12 hours is just ridiculous!

More on rail here at the DomPost (http://www.stuff.co.nz/4844713a6160.html).

Faster trains are nice, but they'd likely have an issue with the Raurimu Spiral though.

12 hours is an age. You could fly to LA in that time.

Wasn't there a consortium who approached the govt when they bought back the rail system from toll who were interested in running a service AKl to Welly? I seem remember they were talking about bringing in new, faster rolling stock from China or somthing.

What happened to that?

To speed it up you need to drastically improve the Auckland to Hamilton section, and also the section from about Taihape to Paraparaumu. That's where the savings could be made as the terrain isn't too bad. It takes 150 minutes from Auckland to Hamilton - crazy when you can do it in a car in about half that time.

12 hours is an age. You could fly to LA in that time.

Wasn't there a consortium who approached the govt when they bought back the rail system from toll who were interested in running a service AKl to Welly? I seem remember they were talking about bringing in new, faster rolling stock from China or somthing.

What happened to that?

About as much as has happened with the fabled third cellular network provider.

About as much as has happened with the fabled third cellular network provider.

HaHa yes the elsusive third cellphone provider. Much like Bigfoot there has been talk of it's existence but no solid proof yet.:lol:

I guess thats what you get living with a small population. Only a few slices of the pie to be divided up between suppliers.

From www.beehive.govt.nz

Looks like Woburn Workshop in Lower Hutt misses out on new engine construction -- rather 20 imported from China; new carriages to be built at Hillside in Dunedin.


Government invests in KiwiRail, sets up infrastructure unit

The Government has approved $115 million of spending on new carriages and locomotives for KiwiRail and the establishment of a small unit within Treasury to manage the next stages of its infrastructure programme.

The moves follow the announcement last month that almost $500 million of publicly-funded school, housing and roading projects would be fast-tracked – helping provide work for regional businesses.

“The Government was elected with a mandate to fix the infrastructure problems holding New Zealand back and to target projects that will help us build a higher performing economy,” Infrastructure Minister Bill English said today.

“Today’s announcements are the next steps toward achieving that. The KiwiRail investment will lift the productivity of freight services and the profitability of key tourist passenger routes.

“The National Infrastructure Unit within Treasury will ensure that the Government’s infrastructure programme is both strategically sound and helps build a more competitive, more productive economy.

“We will confirm more infrastructure projects over the coming months.”

Of the KiwiRail investments, $39.9 million will be spent building new carriages for the TranzScenic passenger routes. The work will be completed by KiwiRail’s Hillside Engineering workshop in Dunedin and will begin in January next year, maintaining workshop jobs and providing work for hundreds of other suppliers.

The remaining $75 million will buy 20 new locomotives from China, which will boost productivity on key freight routes and allow KiwiRail to free up locomotives for Auckland metro passenger routes. All 20 locomotives will arrive by August next year.

Meanwhile, the National Infrastructure Unit within Treasury will improve the way public sector agencies manage their existing infrastructure assets and lead to stronger forward planning of infrastructure needs.

The unit will be drawn largely from existing Treasury staff and resources and staff seconded from other departments.

A National Infrastructure Advisory Board, to include representatives from the private sector and local government, will also be set up to advise the infrastructure unit and the Infrastructure Minister.

The new arrangements will bring New Zealand into line with other countries, including Australia.

The infrastructure unit and the advisory board will develop a national infrastructure plan by the end of this year – fulfilling another commitment made by the National Party during the election campaign. The plan will be updated every three years.

“These 20-year plans will not be prescriptive roadmaps, but will present a high-level view of the state of New Zealand’s public infrastructure and anticipated future requirements,” Mr English said.

“I am confident that this will provide the private sector and all of New Zealand with far greater certainty and confidence about the nature and timing of future government infrastructure investment.”

I thought that the new carriages for TranzScenic was supposed to be from the $80 million that was approved under the previous government? Maybe they're trying to make it look like they're doing more than they really are.

From www.beehive.govt.nz

Looks like Woburn Workshop in Lower Hutt misses out on new engine construction -- rather 20 imported from China; new carriages to be built at Hillside in Dunedin.


I have to admit i thought they would try to weasel out of spending any money at all on rail. This is better than i expected. Although the locos are to be made offshore the new carriages creates a bit of work which is good .

Here's the KiwiRail press release (http://www.kiwirail.co.nz/index.php?page=new-funding-recognises-rail-s-importance-to-the-economy) on the new locos and carriages. Contains some bits not in he Beehive press release.

New funding recognises rail’s importance to the economy

The Government’s announcement today of funding for new locomotives for the rail freight network and Tranz Scenic carriages is recognition of the important role rail plays in the New Zealand economy, the Chairman of KiwiRail, Jim Bolger said today.

The Government announced funding of $115 million for 20 new locomotives and 17 passenger carriages for KiwiRail’s Tranz Scenic Fleet.

"The Government’s decision is timely and welcome," said Mr Bolger. "The new locomotives will enable us to make considerable efficiency gains on key freight routes such as Auckland-Tauranga-Murupara and on the ‘Coal Route’ between the West Coast coal mines and the Port of Lyttelton.

"The key to lifting KiwiRail’s revenue and profitability is improving customer service. We have locomotives that are at or near retirement age and we also have a contractual obligation to supply locomotives to Auckland Regional Transport Authority later in the year.

"The new locomotives will be more powerful and reliable than those in our existing fleet and in some cases, will be able to do the work of two existing locomotives."

Mr Bolger said the new passenger carriages would enable Tranz Scenic to provide the kind of travel experience that passengers, particularly overseas tourists, expect.

"The role of long-distance passenger services is evolving into a high quality tourism experience," he said. "It’s essential we have the carriages to complement the magnificent scenery that draws people to the Tranz Alpine, Tranz Coastal and Overlander.

"Between them, Tranz Scenic long distance passenger experiences and the Interislander ferries represent an important but underrated element of the New Zealand tourism industry."

Mr Bolger said he was encouraged that the Government understood where rail can make the most effective contribution to the economy.

"Apart from tourist rail experiences, it has a fundamental role in carrying bulk goods, containers to and from ports and urban passengers in large cities. In all these roles, it takes thousands of vehicles off roads that are already congested.

"We firmly believe that investment in rail significantly reduces the amount of money that would need to be spent on roads to achieve the same result."

KiwiRail’s Chief Executive Jim Quinn says the new locomotives, which will arrive progressively during 2010, will be lighter, more powerful and more fuel efficient than the models they replace. They will be fitted with a German-built engine that is approximately six tonnes lighter than those fitted on locomotives in the current fleet.

"They also provide superior fuel economy and improved running times, meet EU III emission standards and are likely to require less maintenance.

"They’ll enable us to make a ‘two for one’ replacement on many services that run in the Auckland –Murupara corridors. Services that have previously required two locomotives running ‘back to back’ will be replaced by a single locomotive.

"We looked closely at the merits of building the locomotives locally but on cost, performance and importantly, delivery time, the Chinese option was superior."

Mr Quinn said the new passenger carriages had been allocated to the South Island services, the Tranz Alpine and Tranz Coastal because they were the more heavily used and tourism oriented trains.

"We have a number of options available to us for the Overlander and we are actively looking at these, including mounting a business case for new carriages."

Mr Quinn said building the carriages in New Zealand would provide a fillip to Hillside Engineering in Dunedin which will carry out the work in conjunction with a large number of New Zealand suppliers.

"Today’s announcement is a combination of a great deal of hard work and careful planning by many people. It is important that we acknowledge the contribution they have made," he said


Interesting that new carriages are for the South Island only at this stage. To me, that suggests the Overlander is pretty marginal (doesn't justify the investment atm).

An insider who works at the railway workshops in Chch (passenger carriage maintenance) says that the Tranzalpine is the only real money making long distance service in the country. The Picton-Chch route is OK in summer and very marginal at best in winter.

Not sure on the overlander as he didn't have anything to do with that, but at beast I'd say it would be similar perhaps to the Picton-Chch route maybe slightly worse.

What will be good is that these new carriages will mean the other existing carriages can be used as trial start up services on other regional lines, perhaps a new southerner and a new service to the bay cities, whangarei, rotorua and others.

I believe this is a drawing of the new KiwiRail loco design:

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii66/bjmate/DL_image.jpg

Image credit: bjmate on photobucket (http://s261.photobucket.com/albums/ii66/bjmate/?action=view&current=DL_image.jpg)

Not sure on the overlander as he didn't have anything to do with that, but at beast I'd say it would be similar perhaps to the Picton-Chch route maybe slightly worse.

My informants tell me that it has now improved to marginal profitability since the outcry over closing the service.

http://www.times-age.co.nz/localnews/storydisplay.cfm?storyid=3795843&thesection=localnews&thesubsection=&thesecondsubsection=


Railway milk tankers may ply 'old' line

12.03.2009
By Don Farmer

A fleet of railway milk tankers running milk from Waingawa to Hawera via the Manawatu Gorge could be the saviour of the threatened Masterton-Woodville rail link.

Although KiwiRail Group is remaining rather coy about the idea, the company has confirmed it is looking at the milk train proposal along with several other "bulk milk opportunities" throughout the country.

Public Affairs manager Kevin Ramshaw said yesterday no decisions have yet been made regarding the infrastructure that would be needed to support the Waingawa-Palmerston North-Hawera venture.

The working details of the venture have not been disclosed but it is believed, by sources who spoke to the newspaper, the milk train could involve at least 20 new tank wagons and operate daily, similar to a run already under way between Oringi and Hawera.



The Masterton to Woodville line has become virtually redundant since narrow, low-ceiling tunnels in the Manawatu Gorge have been done away with.

This has allowed containers to be railed from Wellington through the gorge to Napier.

In recent times the Waingawa rail yards have been tidied up and new track laid.

Further along the Masterton-Woodville rail link work has also been done with new culverts installed at Opaki and further north at Jackson's Line, Mauriceville.

The milk train would be expected to have some impact on Fonterra's arrangements for Wairarapa.

Milk collection by road tanker extends throughout Wairarapa with milk from vats on dairy farms being trucked daily to Pahiatua, where it is manufactured into milk products and milk powder for consumption in New Zealand and also exported.

Manager of Fonterra Pahiatua Bill Boakes yesterday referred comments on the likely introduction of new rail milk tankers to the company's media relations staff but no responses had been received by the time this edition went to press.

It is not known what impact, if any, the rail milk proposal would have on Fonterra's present collection system, or staffing.


I really hope this does happen, the Wairarapa line is underused and also under threat of closure (At least north of Masterton). If you combine this milk train proposal and the log freight then it would become a very well used piece of rail.

^^ Does that mean that the only real trains using the Upper Hutt to Masterton Line are the passenger trains?

It would be a shame to see any more line closures in NZ... Even if lines do get closed, they should only be mothballed so that at least some point in the future, it can be reopened if circumstances allow.

There is a weekday freight between Wellington and Masterton for a sawmill, and another (but I'm not sure how often) between Pahiatua and Palmerston North for the dairy factory. There is one train a week that uses the whole length that goes to Palmerston North from Wellington.

Well isn't this a bit of an unusual turn for a right wing government.... I bet ACT's Roger Douglas would have a word or three to say about it hehehe.

Govt considering new electric trains - report
Last updated 07:16 16/03/2009
The government is considering buying new electric commuter trains for Auckland and Wellington in a move that would avoid councils having to increase rates to pay for them, it was reported today.

The New Zealand Herald said it had obtained a letter from Transport Minister Steven Joyce to Auckland Regional Council chairman Mike Lee in which the minister said it "made sense" for KiwiRail to buy and own all new passenger trains planned for the two cities.

It would allow the Government to ditch a regional fuel tax, which would have paid for the electrification of Auckland's system, without forcing councils to raise rates.

The letter was in response to Mr Lee's concerns about how electrification would be paid for without the fuel tax, which would have raised $496 million for the Auckland project.

The Government is expected to confirm this week that it is abandoning the plan for a regional fuel tax.

- NZPA

Yeah very surprising really.... the petrol tax money was needed for other stuff too though - like integrated ticketing and the Penlink Road. Wonder what happens with them now?

I do agree in principle with Stephen Joyce that increasing the national fuel tax is administratively far easier to manage than having various councils all doing "their own thing"

But note that much of that extra money is going to Auckland and Wellington...

Yet again, Christchurch, which was also very close to pushing ahead with regional fuel taxation, will largely miss out since their projects will have to be contested along with all others in other regions - which, as has been proven previously, will mean Christchurch will actually get nothing, and Auckland will get it instead.

I'd be hacked off too if I lived in ChCh. Don't blame us Aucklanders though, we were quite happy to pay for the Regional Fuel Tax. Consultation undertaken by the ARC clearly showed that.

We're getting pretty screwed here too, potentially losing integrated ticketing and the like.

Integrated ticketing could still quite easily happen, with the debt require d to implement the project serviced by a small increase to ARC rates.

Although I don't like the idea of paying more rates (as I still own property in Auckland), this is a worthwhile cause on the whole.

IMO, ARTA are using this as an opportunity for political grandstanding. They just need to get on with the job.

The thing I find irritating is that local and regional governments are effectively having their power taken away from them by interference by the central government. This is something that National accused Labour of, and now they're actually being worse than Labour in this regard!

Indeed.... this is tremendous stomping of local/regional government. Perhaps Wellington is really really worried about the power a super-city would have, so is looking to chop local/regional power off at the knees ASAP.

That's weird. They're cost-cutting all over the place, but when an acceptable means of funding something without digging into their coffers pops up (regional fuel tax), they go and say they'll fund it from the (recession-hit) government kitty instead?

Indeed.... this is tremendous stomping of local/regional government. Perhaps Wellington is really really worried about the power a super-city would have, so is looking to chop local/regional power off at the knees ASAP.
Especially if a Ken Livingstone-type candidate obtains the Greater Auckland mayoral chains.

^^ I dunno deepred. Auckland has swung towards the right in recent years, sadly. It is the only large city in NZ to probably have a centre-right majority. Hopefully we don't end up with John Banks as supreme ruler of us.

I'd be hacked off too if I lived in ChCh. Don't blame us Aucklanders though, we were quite happy to pay for the Regional Fuel Tax. Consultation undertaken by the ARC clearly showed that.

We're getting pretty screwed here too, potentially losing integrated ticketing and the like.

Agreed jarbury - I'm not mad at Auckland for the predicament we're in here in Chch... I blame it on previous governments (local and central) on the mess that Auckland's transport system is in which, is resulting in this massively expensive catch up programme when some would argue, is at a time we can least afford it.

I wonder how much money collectively around all the councils has been wasted progressing with projects under a regional fuel tax scheme, only to be undone by central government? I would say quite a few million dollars - enough to build the Kopu Bridge, the Rotorua Eastern Arterial, the Katikati bypass and possibly more.

The one saving grace in all of this for the rest of the country is that the two geographically ideal locations for toll roads are in Auckland and Wellington - so hopefully this will be used extensively in those areas so that it frees up money for the rest of NZ.

Funding for the Wairarapa log freight project has been approved, according to this: http://www.nzta.govt.nz/newsroom/funding/200902-nltp-table.html .

I've found other stuff about the "Central Log Rail" project, it seems to include more than just Masterton, also Marton and Wanganui. There is also some other interesting bits from this website; http://www.wwcl.co.nz/projects/central_log_rail.htm

This proposal was for a project that met the Government’s, Transfund’s and the Regional Councils’ aims for the land transport system by removing a significant quantity of freight traffic from two key State highways.

A large increase in forest harvest volumes in the southern North Island in the very near future will result in large increases in the quantity of both logs and timber products to be transported for export. A shortage of onshore processing capacity and the lengthy lead times required to establish new processing capacity results initially in a large percentage of the increased harvest being exported as logs, however, over time, an increasing proportion of the increased harvest is expected to be exported as processed wood product as new processing capacity is progressively established.

The proposal was to transport logs and processed timber products in the southern North Island (from Masterton, Marton & Wanganui) by rail rather than road. Logs and processed timber products would be trucked to log yards and transferred to rail. Three log yards would be created at existing railway stations at Masterton, Marton and Wanganui. The logs (and other wood products) would be railed to CentrePort (Wellington) for export.

A window of opportunity existed to establish the log rail operation for minimum subsidy cost. Considerable benefits can accrue in terms of economic development, assisting safety, improving access and promoting environmental sustainability through transferring the transport of increasing volumes of logs from road freight to rail freight. In order for the benefits to be achieved an investment was needed from central government for three years. The analysis demonstrated that the investment would be amply repaid in the returns achieved - principally to road users.

Warwick Walbran Consulting Limited was engaged by the Wellington Regional Council (Greater Wellington) to detail the background, strategic consistency analysis, capital requirements and the economic analysis of the investment proposal.

Funding for the Wairarapa log freight project has been approved, according to this: http://www.nzta.govt.nz/newsroom/funding/200902-nltp-table.html .

I've found other stuff about the "Central Log Rail" project, it seems to include more than just Masterton, also Marton and Wanganui. There is also some other interesting bits from this website

It is nice to see that the Woodville to Masterton section would be able to get sufficient freight trains to keep it viable. The only issue now is where we get the wagons from; aside from the hundred that came in last year, we haven't had any wagons since a large number of them were scrapped in the Beard era.

I don't think there will be any log trains running between Masterton and Woodville, but there is the potential of milk trains as I posted further up the page. I think there will be a need for new wagons, according to this document: http://www.ipenz.org.nz/ipenztg/papers/2004_pdf/07_Brennand_Walbran.pdf

on page 9 it says


The project will be implemented as follows:
• Establishment of a joint venture company (“Central Log-Rail Limited”) to operate a
one-stop (from regional log yard to on-wharf Wellington) transport service for logs
and other forest produce. The members of the JV Company will be CPL and PFP
initially.
• The JV Company to contract with Toll Rail for the provision of competitive rail
transport services to the port of Wellington, and the provision of suitable land for
operating regional log storage yards. Toll Rail will supply initial rolling stock (eight
wagons).
• PFP will, on behalf of the JV, provide yard operating and cleaning services and to
otherwise administer and promote the service in the regions, and acquire wood
directly at the yard where this will facilitate an increase in the throughput volume.
• CPL will provide priority unloading area and storage for logs delivered to the port by
rail.
• The JV Company to seek support for the operation of the service from Alternatives to
Road funding sources provided by Transfund through local Government agencies.
• The JV Company will meet the cost of rolling stock (other than the first eight wagons
that are to be provided by Toll Rail).



This obviously dates back before KiwiRail, so as to who buys the new wagons now, who knows.

Wairarapa and Manawatu log freight funding approved.
$1m to get logs off road
By NICK CHURCHOUSE - The Dominion Post
01/04/2009

A million-dollar rail freight subsidy for an Australian-owned logging company has angered truckies, but the Government says it is a hangover from the Labour years and will not happen again.

Pentarch Forest Products has scored $975,000 over three years from the Transport Agency if it shifts road-freighted logs to trains in an effort to lower road maintenance costs.

Rail consignments of export logs from Masterton, Marton and Wanganui to Wellington would get $3 a tonne in the first year, decreasing by $1 a tonne each year after.

Deborah Hume, the transport agency's director for Wellington, Nelson, Marlborough and Tasman, said the deal would save more than $1 million on road maintenance from the reduced heavy traffic.

But Road Transport Forum chief executive Tony Friedlander said it was a stupid move and contradicted the Government's direction on transport policy.

The subsidy, in effect, took business away from road freighters, who paid road user charges, and was an inefficient use of scarce roading funds.
more (http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/2305835/1m-to-get-logs-off-road)

Correct me if i'm wrong but isn't road freight subsidised by private motorists as well? My understanding was that road user charges only covered about half the wear and tear that heavy trucks cause on our roads. The rest was covered by the fuel tax of private motorists.

Is that correct?

Maybe Mr Friedlander does not actually object to private motorists subsidising freight just when that freight is travelling by rail.

It's also bizarre that he says truckies should pay more in road user charges if more money was needed. Is this not the same guy who kicked up the huge stink last year over the government raising the road user charges. Remember the blockade in the major centres?

These are the people dictating our national transport strategy.

Yeah Mr Friedlander only wants the subsidies to help his truckies out. Last time I heard that big trucks cause about 1000 times the damage to a road as the average car. I certainly don't think they're paying 1000 times as much tax per km.

Yeah Mr Friedlander only wants the subsidies to help his truckies out. Last time I heard that big trucks cause about 1000 times the damage to a road as the average car. I certainly don't think they're paying 1000 times as much tax per km.

His comments would be laughable were it not for the fact his lobby group has such a big influence on the goverment. It's depressing actually. :ohno:

What would they do next, concoct a train crash to discredit the rail industry?

http://www.rtfnz.co.nz/cm-trucks-pay-their-way.php

Check out their website. Here is how they explain it.

Marsden Point line

Designation progress: Notification of Applications for Resource Consents and Notice of Requirement (http://www.nrc.govt.nz/upload/607/280309%20ONTRACK.pdf) [pdf].

KiwiRail to carry timber for WPI international
Thursday April 9, 01:42 PM
Print This Story



KiwiRail said there will be about 2000 fewer trucks travelling to Wellington's CentrePort care of a deal it has struck with WPI Timber.

A disused railway siding at WPI Timber's Tangiwai timber mill is being re-established and minor adjustments made to existing freight services to shift the freight from road to rail.

The export timber will be carried on the existing daily rail service that runs to and from the nearby Karioi Pulp Mill, also owned by WPI.

"The switch to rail, using an existing freight service, will mean around 2000 fewer truck movements a year, and associated environmental benefits," said KiwiRail's commercial general manager Aaron Temperton.

The new business was made possible by comparatively modest investment in infrastructure, he said.

Ontrack, the infrastructure arm of KiwiRail, expects to have the siding ready for use by mid-May. It has also leased land to the mill for loading space.

A new transit store will be built next to the siding to ensure the timber is kept undercover before it is loaded onto the wagons.

The mill expects to move about 50,000 cu m of sawn timber each year.

WPI has sought funding from the New Zealand Transport Agency to assist with financing the initiative.

WPI is a subsidiary of Ernslaw One Ltd, the fourth largest forestry owner in New Zealand.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

^^ excellent news - lets see more of it!

Some more positive news.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/2328201/KiwiRail-mulls-developing-Napier-line


KiwiRail is optimistic a rail line it runs one train a week on can be improved at minimum cost to carry higher containers and attract new business.

The Napier-to-Gisborne line is a marginal branch line on which KiwiRail makes a loss. Given its scenic location it is an obvious candidate for a cycleway to boost tourism at a time when the Government is investigating an idea of a national cycleway.

KiwiRail was pleasantly surprised when a Gisborne Herald online poll was 62 per cent in favour of keeping the line for freight and steam excursion trains, with 27 per cent in favour of operating a cycleway and excursion trains.

"We run one train a week because we don't want to not run a service, but we run one train a week and lose money," said KiwiRail's commercial general manager Aaron Temperton.

KiwiRail will soon run a trial on the line to identify how much work is needed to be able to put high cube containers on the line. They are 2.9m high. Work on the network in the lower North Island in the last year or so has removed blockages to such containers.

The new business KiwiRail is eyeing includes the proposed Hikurangi Forest Farms veneer and plywood mill, which has resource consents, and could be operating by late 2011 as well as other forestry industry clients.

KiwiRail has also been talking to horticulture customers who want high cube containers.

"It appears from our simulations that it could be quite straight forward and cost effective option to lower the tracks a bit to allow us to accommodate high-cubes," he said.

KiwiRail believed there were two pinch points in two tunnels and removing them would only cost in the tens of thousands of dollars.

There are now no high cube restrictions on rail in the central region of New Zealand.

A high cube capability on the Napier to Gisborne line would increase freight to ports for exports and also improve flows on to the national domestic rail network.

KiwiRail had made contact with ten prospective clients, none of whom currently moved freight on the Napier-to-Gisborne line.

KiwiRail has previously made the point that rail upgrades are not all expensive. The capacity of the Hamilton to Tauranga line, known as the East Coast Main Trunk, was doubled by spending $13 million on passing loops.

^^ This is also great news - It is good to see that our rail network operator is actually trying to be proactive and find ways to make the regional lines more profitable rather than the previous operators who were trying their best to close all but the major lines.

See what Toll and TranzRail couldn't see is that a rail network isn't going to be profitable if you only run a 'main truck' line service. This is because not all of our big 'train using' potential customers are located on the main truck line.

Sure, some regional lines may only ever be marginal at best, but if this provides a feeder service to the major lines then surely this ultimately helps the profitability of the rail network overall. It also allows a more comprehensive future passenger rail service.

What I cant work out is that our country has many long distance bus services which follow on routes served by a railway. I'd like to see companies such as InterCity and Newmans look at the feasibility of developing a railcar service instead - Surely it's cheaper to run a railcar than it is to run a bus (fuel usage, pollution, etc).

There were similar issues through the Kai Iwi valley section of the rail link to New Plymouth despite frequent rail freight and milk services, however Ontrack dragged their feet for many years over the issue. So it wasn't just Toll that was causing the problem :ohno:

I do agree that it's good to see the companies involved being proactive.

KiwiRail under pressure to charge Toll NZ more
Friday April 17, 03:14 PM


KiwiRail is under renewed pressure from logistics companies to charge its former trucking business the same rate as everyone else.

Toll Holdings of Australia kept the trucks when it sold rail back to the Government and added to the freight forwarding business with acquisitions.


Toll NZ now operates 960 company and owner-driver trucks when all of its brands are counted. It is KiwiRail's largest freight forwarder customer.

Listed logistics company Mainfreight said it had evidence that Toll NZ gets as much as a 30 percent discount when putting its freight on rail and ferries operated by KiwiRail.

The discount was supposed to end on December 31, as was cheap, or lack of rent, on premises Toll NZ has on KiwiRail land.

Mainfreight managing director Don Braid said KiwiRail was asking for money from the Government when it could be earning more by charging a major customer the same as other customers.

"KiwiRail needs every cent it can get and here it is with poor negotiation abilities. They are missing out on valuable revenue that should be being paid by an Australian transport provider."

The TranzLink freight business owned by Tranz Rail and then Toll Holdings had always had cheap rent and subsidised rate structures.

Mainfreight said Toll NZ quoted rates in the marketplace below Mainfreight's costs.

Mainfreight is a major customer of rail and has long lobbied for improved rail services.

"What is the KiwiRail board doing? I think that board is lacking in gumption," Mr Braid said.

Toll NZ group general manager Greg Miller said the situation was complex and both parties were addressing it constructively.

Asked if Toll had threatened to take its business away from rail as a negotiating tactic, Mr Miller said "that's the last thing we want to do".

"We won't talk out of school until we have found a place where everyone can work together," he said.

"It is not a subsidy situation but it is really complex," he said.

"We have a good team of people on both sides working hard on the best outcome," he said.

KiwiRail said it did not comment on individual customer rates but anomalies were identified during the Crown's due diligence prior to the purchase of rail.

It was taking longer than expected to implement a new pricing approach, KiwiRail said.

Govt cash revives ferry plan
A roll on-roll off ferry service between New Plymouth and Nelson has just moved a step closer.

The Government this week awarded $250,000 to Port Taranaki to help fund a feasibility study into a western seaboard coastal shipping operation involving the ports of Bluff, Nelson, Greymouth, New Plymouth and Onehunga.

Port Taranaki Ltd is the lead contractor, and yesterday it hailed the study as having the potential to transform Taranaki into an important transport hub for coastal shipping.

"This could put Taranaki at the cross-hairs of New Zealand's transport network it could bring about all sorts of distribution and warehousing opportunities," said Port Taranaki chief executive Roy Weaver.

The port company has already engaged a Wellington economist as head consultant for the project, and he in turn has hired experts in New Zealand's shipping and rail industries for their assistance. Between them they now have 34 weeks to complete the feasibility study and report back to the Government's Land Transport Authority.

For several years now Port Taranaki has been at the forefront of efforts to create what it has dubbed the Blue Highway a coastal shipping service along New Zealand's western seaboard.

The port company has argued that not only would this be a very cost-efficient and environmentally acceptable means of transporting cargo between the North and South islands, but that it could also open the way for development of a roll on-roll off ferry service between New Plymouth and Nelson for both freight and passengers.

Business development manager Jon Hacon said statistics from the United States showed that for every dollar it cost to carry a tonne of freight a kilometre by sea, it cost $4 by rail and $10 by road. In Europe the equivalent ratio was $1, $3 and $6.

While there were no such figures for New Zealand, what was known was that only about 6 per cent of this country's freight was moved via coastal shipping, he said.

"This is what this study is going to be all about to find out what is New Zealand's freight task, and what is the most efficient way of transporting it around the country."

Mr Hacon said government studies forecast that the amount of freight being transported in New Zealand would double by 2025.

"So the study will be asking whether our transport infrastructure is adequate for this doubling of the freight task, if it is working properly, and even if it is all necessary.

"And most importantly, it will look at how all the transport modes can work together in the most efficient way."

Mr Weaver said the feasibility study would even go so far as to recommend ship types for a coastal service. "It will study whether or not such ships need to be lift on-lift off, or roll on-roll off, or a combination of both," he said.

Port Taranaki began exploring a New Plymouth-Nelson ferry concept more than three years ago, to the extent of talking with shipping companies. This has since led to one shipping line, Pacifica, introducing a weekly service between the two ports.

But a roll on-roll off service would take things a lot further. Truck drivers and motorists would not need to drive to Wellington to catch the inter-island ferries to the South Island, potentially cutting many hours off their journeys.

It will be interesting to see how the feasibility goes. I would have thought a link from Nelson to Wellington would be more lucrative. If the proposal goes someway towards opening up our regional cities and is viable, then it would be great.:ohno::lol:

I don't see what it has to do with the rail network, perhaps make a different thread.

According to the KiwiRail advertising feature in last week's Shipping Gazette, KiwiRail are considering developing a container transfer site at the Glenbrook Steel Mill. This would primarily cater for the increasing amount of finished product from the mill that is shipped in containers, but the implication is (as far as I can see) that the site would be available to other shippers too.

Anyone know what other possible sources of freight there are in the Glenbrook/Waiuku area?

It will be interesting to see how the feasibility goes. I would have thought a link from Nelson to Wellington would be more lucrative. If the proposal goes someway towards opening up our regional cities and is viable, then it would be great.:ohno::lol:

For those that are interested, I've written a snippet on the thread here. (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=36301970#post36301970)

A New Plymouth to Nelson Ferry?

This seems a little Pie-In-The-Sky to me... After all, the three ingredients that such a link would need to work are:
1) Good Land Transport Links to the port cities at each end.
2) Reasonable Population Base/Industry requiring such a service
3) Practical Distances/Time of Journey

A quick bit of plotting on Google Earth shows the following routes and distances:

Picton-Wellington 95 km
Picton-Mana 82 km
Picton-Wanganui 176km
Nelson-Wanganui 213km
Nelson-New Plymouth 278km

As for journey times, I can't see a Nelson-New Plymouth service really working given that a typical journey would be around 9 hours.

For the population base, neither city has a massive population base, though you can include the population base further afield if it is likely to draw truckies to those ports as opposed to those of Wellington and Picton. In this case, a Nelson service would possibly draw truckies from the West Coast and a New Plymouth good draw truckies from Hamilton, Auckland and beyond. Any time saved on the road journey would be eaten up by the longer sea voyage, but then there are the fuel costs, roading costs etc that would be saved so it probably works out reasonable, though better on the environment.

The biggest downsides I can see are the fact that there is no Rail service to Nelson to act as a feeder (and don't even think about trying to revive such a service) and the railway to New Plymouth isn't ideal either. The main highway north to Hamilton isn't particularly great either and the road from say Greymouth to Nelson is 289km compared to 349km to Picton... not a big difference.

Though I wonder if it wouldn't be a better idea to have a new port at Mana (where one of the old fast ferries used to run from) as this is a shorter route. Or, the Clifford Bay terminal once proposed by TransRail. This would boost transport times and therefore cut costs and time.

FWIW, if it was viable to run another service other than the trunk "Picton-Wellington" or similar service, then I would think that something like a Picton to Wanganui or Wanganui to Nelson would be more likely to work perhaps? Wanganui doesn't have much of a port however and what port it does have one has to contend with the Wanganui Bar - But that's not to say a new port couldn't be developed perhaps.

Personally I would rather see more money in going into beefing up rail lines and leave coastal shipping mostly as is with the country having half a dozen bigger ports and another dozen small ports. The figures about coastal shipping costs versus rail and road need to be considered VERY carefully - comparing costs with those in the US or Europe is probably not a great idea as they have much greater economies of scale than we do - Presumedly, they will use larger ships which will have a lower cost per tonne/kilometre than smaller vessels do.

^^ For those that are interested, I've created a new thread here (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=868070) to discuss Ports & Shipping related infrastructure.

Consultants say new railcar link to Hamilton will be a winner
4:00AM Wednesday May 13, 2009
By Mathew Dearnaley

Leading rail industry consultants have added weight to a campaign to run a commuter train between Hamilton and Auckland, saying economic benefits would "comfortably" exceed operating losses.

They predict $15.5 million over 15 years in economic benefits including reduced road congestion from a single daily return service, against an operating loss of $6.6 million.

That would give the service a benefit-cost ratio of 1.9, or an economic return of $1.90 for each $1 invested by the Government and ratepayers.

The analysis is in a preliminary business case prepared for the Environment Waikato regional council, which is being urged by campaigners including Hamilton City leaders to lease Silver Fern rail-cars being taken off the Pukekohe-Auckland commuter run at the end of next month.

Although the council omitted a Hamilton-Auckland service from its draft three-year regional land transport programme of projects for which it will seek Government subsidies, it has received 40 submissions urging it not to lose the chance to obtain the rail-cars.

Those submissions were among 92 received for the entire programme, which is worth about $1.2 billion.

Environment Waikato said last month that it was waiting to receive the business case before the Waikato regional transport committee could consider whether to add the rail proposal.

A team from three transport consultancies, led by Dr Murray King, has since provided a report to the regional council, citing indicative prices from KiwiRail of $1.84 million a year for one daily round trip, $2.2 million for two, and $2.65m for three.

The report suggests a modest start with one return trip from Hamilton's Frankton station, ensuring competitiveness with car journey times by limiting stops to Huntly, Papatoetoe and Newmarket before reaching Britomart.

Average one-way fares of $24 from Hamilton and $17.60 from Huntly are assumed, and the consultants predict a 75 per cent occupancy rate from 96 seats available on a single rail-car, starting at 72 passengers a day.

Fares income would initially cover 40 per cent of costs, leaving an operating loss of $1.14 million in the first year, but would improve with patronage to about 68 per cent in 2023 - reducing the deficit to $610,000.

A 60 per cent subsidy of $648,000 would be sought from the Transport Agency for the first year, which the consultants say is less than 0.3 per cent of the total amount being requested through the regional transport programme.

That would leave $456,000 to be raised from Waikato sources.

The consultants point to potential access problem through Newmarket to Britomart, saying the Auckland Regional Transport Authority does not think planned additions to its own suburban services next month and early next year will leave room for a Hamilton train at peak hours.

But they say KiwiRail's Ontrack division believes enhancements to trackwork and signals will create enough room, once they are commissioned by the middle of next year.

That may mean having to run the new service through Auckland's eastern and waterfront line into Britomart, bypassing Newmarket, until Ontrack completes the work.

The report's economic findings have been welcomed by the Campaign for Better Transport in Auckland and Hamilton City transport chairman Dave Macpherson, who said the only question now was when - not if - the service would start.

He hoped trains could also stop at a site at Te Rapa, where his council had allocated funds for a station, and believed two daily return trips could prove feasible.

KiwiRail needs an early decision on the use of its three Silver Fern rail-cars, and has indicated a preference for three daily return trips if a Waikato service is to run, a frequency which even Mr Macpherson believes might be too ambitious.

Good news, but $24 each way sounds a bit too much for me. I could catch a two hour bus to Hamilton for $9.

Still cheaper than driving solo though, especially if you factor in costs other than petrol.

^^ That's not much more than Palmy - Wellington on the Capital Connection ($22).

I'm just wondering, with $9 bus fares, is that a standard price or the cheapest (ie only for limited seats on limited services). $9 sounds like a bargin ...

You can normally get a $9 fare. If unlucky, you will end up paying $14. If lucky, you will end up paying $1. You can check it out yourself here (http://www.nakedbus.com/).

I once got to Tauranga and back for $3.70 ($2 return fare, $0.70 booking fee, and $1 SMS reminder, which is optional) :cheers:

$24 does seem to be quite high. I have to wonder whether it'd just be easier, more cost effective and more environmentally friendly for people who work to live closer to the place of work?

Good news though - you'd hope a city the size of Hamilton could support a train service if Palmerston North and the Wairarapa can, it just needs to beomce engrained in the local psyche that the train actually is an option - easier said than done though!

I suppose it will need some good headline fares and specials (season ticket deals or weekend shopping day returns), a good marketing campaign, and maybe some promotion in terms of leisure travel/backpacker stuff too? Aren't those glow-worms near there?

Also can someone help illuminate me (as a Brit but NZ visitor and fan) as to the rather odd hierarchy of stations along that line?

The Wellington train stops at Middlemore, but this one suggest Papatoetoe and the suburban expresses often stop there too. Why are either important?

And why does this omit Papakura (too busy?) and that last station which is further out with less trains (another P). Surely a stop there would help this service?

And why does this omit Papakura (too busy?) and that last station which is further out with less trains (another P). Surely a stop there would help this service?

Because Papakura will be the southern terminus of the electrified line, and ARTA will want as many ppl as possible using its services to ensure it can justify the expenditure. The last thing they will want is a natioanally subsidised service paoching passengers, (In any case, I suspect that the Transport funding agency will not actually allow two competing services to both receive a public subsidy)

The further south stop you mention will be Pukekohe, which again is on the Auckland suburban network ( but not in line to be electrified), so the same rational would likely apply in terms of dual subsidisation.

Because Papakura will be the southern terminus of the electrified line, and ARTA will want as many ppl as possible using its services to ensure it can justify the expenditure. The last thing they will want is a natioanally subsidised service paoching passengers, (In any case, I suspect that the Transport funding agency will not actually allow two competing services to both receive a public subsidy)

The further south stop you mention will be Pukekohe, which again is on the Auckland suburban network ( but not in line to be electrified), so the same rational would likely apply in terms of dual subsidisation.

Great news that someone is actually thinking about a rail service from Auckland to Hamilton...

I can't see why it should matter about one rail service poaching customers potentially from another - Ultimately a bum on seat in a train is better than a bum on a seat in a private car. So it would make sense to me to have trains stop at places to ensure best catchment of people with maximum possible frequency while at the same time ensuring that you are running the service as quickly as practical.

I would think that it would be viable for a Hamilton train to make the following stops:
1) Hamilton Frankton
2) Maybe a second Hamilton stop with park'n'ride since frankton station has little space for parking. (eg: Te Rapa?)
3) Ngaruawahia
4) Taupiri
5) Huntly
6) Te Kauwhata
7) Pokeno
8) Tuakau
9) Pukekohe
10) Papakura
11) Newmarket
12) Auckland

If there is concern about the extra stops slowing the service too much, some minor upgrades to route geometry would help alleviate this by allowing the trains to run at a higher line speed.

Who cares if a passenger who normally catches a regular Auckland suburban train from Pukekohe or Papakura to Auckland accidentally catches the Hamilton to Auckland service? I see that having an extra service available is an advantage in case I miss my regular train.

This whole rationale that it would be to stop one service poaching customers from another is just typical politicking bollocks that proves that trains should be owned and operated on a not for profit basis by the government. Having dumb limitations like this will do nothing to make using PT attractive (dont our governments remember that us NZ'ers are sticklers for not getting out of our cars - so come on... make it EASY for us)

Since the cost per return service seems rather low once you get above the first return service, then it would seem to me to have the first train stop where possible to make it initially available to the greatest catchment of people, then, add additional services, some with more limited stops if required.

Any service that is introduced, the govt needs to back it and support it, even if at a loss initially. People will be willing to use a service if there is commitment from operators that they are in it for the long haul, not just a quick and dirty trial basis using old rolling stock etc.

Works start to connect Ports of Auckland's Wiri site to the rail network.
Construction begins on Inland Port rail exchange
Tuesday, 9 June 2009, 11:30 am
Press Release: KiwiRail

Work officially started today on construction of a rail exchange at Ports of Auckland’s Wiri Inland Port in South Auckland.

Jointly funded by KiwiRail and Ports of Auckland, the exchange will connect the 15 hectare Wiri Inland Port with the national rail network and provide a direct link to the Waitemata seaport.

Once fully operational, the rail link is forecast to eventually save up to 2.5 million truck kilometres per year – the equivalent of 100,000 truck trips.
more (http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/AK0906/S00084.htm)

What is involved:
The works involve construction of three rail sidings, each capable of taking 22 wagons, a 450m long hardstand (heavy duty pavement) and around 2,000m of track. Construction is due to be completed by the end of the year.

Container shuttle for Lyttelton Port Company's City Depot inland port in Woolston.

Rail Shuttle Reduces Lyttelton Tunnel Truck Volumes

3 JULY 2009 - An initiative between KiwiRail and the Lyttelton Port of Christchurch, to move containers by rail between the port and its CityDepot site in Woolston is already reducing heavy truck movements through the Lyttelton road tunnel.

The short haul container rail shuttle service has the potential to replace up to 45,000 truck journeys a year along the busy six kilometre journey through the road tunnel to the port.
more (http://www.voxy.co.nz/business/rail-shuttle-reduces-lyttelton-tunnel-truck-volumes/5/17624)

Dunedin contractor Naylor Love has started initial preparatory work on a new 45,000-tonne capacity dry store for Fonterra at the former North Taieri site of the Fisher and Paykel manufacturing plant.

A Fonterra spokeswoman said that later this year the dairy company planned to add a cool store to handle a further 17,000 tonnes of product.

Most of the dairy product would come from Fonterra's Edendale and Stirling dairy factories.

A fourth dryer was under construction at Edendale with the ability to produce 150,000 tonnes of milk powder a season.

It was on track to accept milk on September 1.

Finished dairy product would be trucked or railed to North Taieri where it would be stored and prepared for export through Port Otago.

Fonterra's group supply chain manager Joe Coote said the North Taieri storage project was designed to increase the efficiency of the company's supply chain.

It was modelled on the company's Hamilton dry store hub and would allow an increased use of transporting by rail, which he said would reduce heavy truck movements.

The Hamilton operation had reduced the number of truck movements by 45,000 a year, he said.

While securing construction industry work, Mr Coote said the development would result in about 30 new jobs on site and in related industries.



A pity our government goes on and on about economic effieciency yet ignores rails potential. Fonterra alone keeps some sections of rail line viable, imagine if other industries followed in Fonterras footsteps.

http://www.hawkesbaytoday.co.nz/local/news/editorial-bay-looking-on-bright-side-of-life/3901218/


On Tuesday the concept of a cycle/walkway between Napier and Gisborne, based on the Central Otago Rail Trail model was floated.

While the line currently accommodates only one train per week, the Bay2Bay idea was immediately given cold water treatment by KiwiRail, which said the line was "sacrosanct". The Hawke's Bay Regional Transport Committee were equally dismissive. Not even the possibility of a similar result to that likely to be achieved in Central Otago this year - 11,000 users and a boost to the economy of $3.85 million - impressed them.


It's a bit amusing to see a rail line described using that word, but this is exactly the kind of thinking we need. The former Tranz Rail was doing pretty much everything to make sure it would close.

Looks like the Hamilton/Auckland commuter rail service is dead in the water:

http://www.aucklandtrains.co.nz/2009/09/07/waikato-expressway-not-rail-wins-as-public-transport-funding-diverted/

:ohno:

Short sighted move. I guess spending money on the Waikato Expressway is more worthwhile than on the Puhoi-Warkworth motorway. Nevertheless, this is missed opportunity.

^^Yep short sighted and sadly predictable. :ohno:

^^Yep short sighted and sadly predictable. :ohno:

True.

I think we should expect nothing from this government in the way of public transport, and take PT developments only as a pleasant surprise.

Less disappointments that way.

Wellington's rail overhaul over the next few years may change that. If the $550 million spent on modernising the Wellington commuter rail system is successful and when an election is near it maybe a little different. I think Key is having a bit of a wait and see approach.:)

I think Key is having a bit of a wait and see approach.:)

I don't think so. Key and his government has no interest in public transport whatsoever. It does not even figure in their thinking. All they are doing is finishing off projects started by the last government then that will be it.

They couldn't care less about Public Transport it's not and never will be a priority for them.

Yes, just take S joyces speech at today's Roading NZ conference (http://www.aucklandtrains.co.nz/2009/09/09/transport-minister-gives-insight-into-govts-love-of-roads/) as an example.

Does this guy have a hard on for asphalt or what?

I don't think so. Key and his government has no interest in public transport whatsoever. It does not even figure in their thinking. All they are doing is finishing off projects started by the last government then that will be it.

They couldn't care less about Public Transport it's not and never will be a priority for them.

Maybe logic will prevail.^^Public opinion may have some influence eventually.

Maybe logic will prevail.^^Public opinion may have some influence eventually.

I hope so. At the moment it looks like it's our only chance of getting anything done on public transport for the next 6 - 9 years.

From what I have heard Auckland is an absolute shamble, Wellington is not too bad while Christchurch is going to have significant improvements with new buslanes and a new bus exchange. Don't know a great deal about the other centres. This is where a lobby group which is devoted to improving public transport would be an idea.

From what I have heard Auckland is an absolute shamble, Wellington is not too bad while Christchurch is going to have significant improvements with new buslanes and a new bus exchange. Don't know a great deal about the other centres. This is where a lobby group which is devoted to improving public transport would be an idea.

A complete shambles, not quite. Maybe the financing aspect of it, no thanks to the current regime holding the purse strings. And to think it could have all been avoided if the short sighted FW's had left alone the regional fuel taxes, which Aucklander's were willing to pay. And what, fuel has increased in price in the last six months more than the tax was going to be. Plannings all in place, massive projects are underway and near completion - see the Public transport thread (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=527695&page=197) - the 2nd most viewed though most replied to forum on the kiwiscapers site. Who says Aucklander's aren't passionate about transport.

Now the lobby groups, are in fact up and running, and causing some discomfort for the imbeciles in Parliament.

See ...

Campaign for Better Transport (http://www.bettertransport.org.nz/) - the prime shit stirrers.
Better Transport.org (http://www.bettertransport.org.nz/forum/index.php?sid=192ad0357a439001cbb12442c1bf58c8)
Auckland Trains (http://www.aucklandtrains.co.nz/)
and our own forum hero, radio star, Herald star, Jarbury's Auckland Transport Blog (http://transportblog.co.nz/)

then there are us, your friendly writers of letters to the editor hardcopy and online.

From what I have heard Auckland is an absolute shamble

I have been here for just over 4 years and the change has been phenomenal, nothing short of a miracle ;) There is room for improvement but coining the term "shambles" is an exaggeration. What is in shambles is the political bickering and in-fighting - then again, isn't that the norm for politicians ;)

When I lived in Auckland in 1993 it was very difficult getting public transport from Howick into the city centre, from what I have heard Auckland still doesn't have particularly good public transport coverage.

When I lived in Auckland in 1993 it was very difficult getting public transport from Howick into the city centre, from what I have heard Auckland still doesn't have particularly good public transport coverage.

Ah, that explains it.

1) You were in Auckland in the early 90s. That was the all time trough of PT use in Auckland's history.
2) You were in Howick. This is one of the most poorly serviced areas in all of Auckland.

Things have improved tremendously since the late 90s, when I first came to Auckland. Having said that, it is still much worse than most cities of its size.

Yeah that would have been bad. Living in the worst area for public transport of one of the world's most poorly served cities at a time of an all time low of investment in public transport. You couldn't get much worse than that.

There has been massive improvment in Auckland public transport since then all of it in the last 8 or so years. Although Howick is still something of a PT desert i think.

The worry is going forward there is no will from the current government to continue the momentum and build on it to give us the first class public transport system we need.

Things are getting better, although there's a worry that unless we keep up the momentum we could fail to capitalise on a lot of what's happened in recent years.

As long as electrification happens properly, and integrated ticketing also goes ahead, then I think we will see a lot of pressure to further expand the public transport system.

Looks like the Hamilton/Auckland commuter rail service is dead in the water:

http://www.aucklandtrains.co.nz/2009/09/07/waikato-expressway-not-rail-wins-as-public-transport-funding-diverted/

Dumb. The Waikato is arguably the most important region in the golden triangle as it links Auckland with Tauranga. If anything the government should be ploughing money into the region to cope with its own growth and the growth of the cities that surround it. A decent rail link could also eventually allow aucklanders to use hamilton international airport as a second gateway.

Dumb. The Waikato is arguably the most important region in the golden triangle as it links Auckland with Tauranga. If anything the government should be ploughing money into the region to cope with its own growth and the growth of the cities that surround it. A decent rail link could also eventually allow aucklanders to use hamilton international airport as a second gateway.

I thought it would be the other way around... A decent rail link would allow Hamilton residents to access AIA better.

Likewise. I thought you were all for centralisation, otumoetaiNZ :)

Any thoughts on a recent think tank which proposes privatisation of Kiwirail?

Other than it being complete and utter rubbish, no.

Did I read somewhere that said document was written by an undergraduate?

I thought it would be the other way around... A decent rail link would allow Hamilton residents to access AIA better.

Hamilton are currently trying to attract large cargo flights but ultimately this will probably result in long-haul passenger carriers also landing at the airport. The Waikato and Bay regions already have a population of some 600,000+ and growing rapidly. It might also be a good secondry airport for auckland if the government get off their butts are put in a decent passenger rail service to the city.

Likewise. I thought you were all for centralisation, otumoetaiNZ :)

yeah definately but the population within the golden triangle certainyl warrants a second international airport, epsecially with the price gouging that Auckland international airport enjoy at the moment!

I heard Kiwirail are considering closing spurs and other seldom used lines to improve profitability. Anyone know where these are located?

I heard Kiwirail are considering closing spurs and other seldom used lines to improve profitability. Anyone know where these are located?

When people talk about closing rail, they are almost universally referring to the Napier-Gisborne Line,

Also the Dunedin to Invercargill line has been on that catergory for some time too

Also the Dunedin to Invercargill line has been on that catergory for some time too


Although, with the talk of solid energy making lignite briquettes at Mataura, and the continuing dairy expansion and talk of a spur to clandeboye, there is at least a possibility that line may actually remain.

Almost everyone admits the Gisborne line will die unless someone can find some serious $$$ to upgrade it.

There are two ways to make KiwiRail profitable; one is do a slash and burn and destroy any rail line currently not making a profit. The other way is to actually put the lines to good use.

I think I know which one this government prefers.

A lot of these lines that are at risk of closure have a reasonably good chance of becoming useful sometime in the next few years. For example as mentioned the lignite and dairy expansion in Southland.

There are two ways to make KiwiRail profitable; one is do a slash and burn and destroy any rail line currently not making a profit. The other way is to actually put the lines to good use.

I think I know which one this government prefers.

A lot of these lines that are at risk of closure have a reasonably good chance of becoming useful sometime in the next few years. For example as mentioned the lignite and dairy expansion in Southland.

I can't see the government taking a long term view on this at all. They will just want Kiwirail in the black as soon as possible. Closing lines sounds like something they would do.

I haven't heard anything about closing Dunedin-Invercargill, where'd you hear that? There is a lot of rail in Southland compared to other provinces, perhaps you're thinking of Invercargill-Ohai? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wairio_Branch

I haven't heard anything about closing Dunedin-Invercargill, where'd you here that? There is a lot of rail in Southland compared to other provinces, perhaps you're thinking of the Invercargill-Ohai line?

If the Invercargill-Dunedin line was up for closure I'm sure Fonterra wouldn't be spending $45m on a storage hub at Mosgiel to shift dairy product by rail from Edendale etc to Port Chalmers.

I say who ever is running kiwi rail...sack em!! Govt owns kiwi rail so it needs to employ better management to foresee any financial down fall. no good putting kiwi rail on notice when the govt brought it. Dah..

Although, with the talk of solid energy making lignite briquettes at Mataura, and the continuing dairy expansion and talk of a spur to clandeboye, there is at least a possibility that line may actually remain.

Almost everyone admits the Gisborne line will die unless someone can find some serious $$$ to upgrade it.


Yeah no point in having that line unless some major development goes on in Gisborne. Stats nz say theres going to be a steady decline in population for the foreseeable future and no major industries are likely to pop up there so it makes sense to axe the rail line.

I say who ever is running kiwi rail...sack em!! Govt owns kiwi rail so it needs to employ better management to foresee any financial down fall. no good putting kiwi rail on notice when the govt brought it. Dah..

I heard the boss of kiwirail talking about the loss of the $90m subsidy and theyve known it was coming for some time. He said the passenger services are running at a profit but the freight services arent. Poor management? Or perhaps the gov need to regulate how freight is moved around the place like they did in the 80s?

At least he likes the transalpine and transcoastal train services. They do need to be upgraded tho and it takes forever to get from christchurch to picton.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/2911080/Steven-Joyce-backs-
TranzAlpine-train

I heard the boss of kiwirail talking about the loss of the $90m subsidy and theyve known it was coming for some time. He said the passenger services are running at a profit but the freight services arent. Poor management? Or perhaps the gov need to regulate how freight is moved around the place like they did in the 80s?

I don't think anyone (other than Stephen Joyce) espected Kiwirail to start making a profit straight away. It needs a shitload of money pumped into it after 20 years of under invstment and neglect.

Company would 'double' spending on rail if KiwiRail improves
Updated at 10:49am on 29 September 2009

Mainfreight says it will double the amount it spends moving cargo on the railways if the Government changes KiwiRail to a more commercial model.

The freight company spends more than $20 million per year on rail, but says it needs more rail services to be able to move more freight off the roads.

KiwiRail expects no state subsidies from next year onwards and Transport Minister Steven Joyce wants it to move to a more commercial footing.

Mainfreight's chief executive Don Braid says the company would expect to benefit from such a move.

He hopes better services would be offered, saying for instance, sending freight by railbetween Auckland - Christchurch takes two to three days.

Mr Braid also says he would like to see more business professionals than politicians on KiwiRail's board.

The Labour Government paid $690 million for KiwiRail in July 2008.

Four months later, the Treasury issued a valuation showing it was worth $448 million.

I don't think anyone (other than Stephen Joyce) espected Kiwirail to start making a profit straight away. It needs a shitload of money pumped into it after 20 years of under invstment and neglect.

To be honest, I don't think he ever did either. However, from what I have read, the real problem lies in the freight business. It'll be interesting to see what comes out in the wash there.

If he expects KiwiRail to become profitable as soon as possible he better be ready to spend money on new lines/sidings, wagons etc because right now there is very little KiwiRail can do with what they have.

This is a shame. It would be interesting to speculate on how much modern rail infrastructure would add to the nation's GDP.

If he expects KiwiRail to become profitable as soon as possible he better be ready to spend money on new lines/sidings, wagons etc because right now there is very little KiwiRail can do with what they have.

I dunno, I think that kiwirail are still stuck in the past a bit thinking that only new equipment can solve their problems. From what I understand theres plenty of wagons and engines available for additional services which is what the freight industry wants. They may not be best but at least theyd do the job to start with. The public transport side is going to still receive subsidies though.

Weve already invested nearly a billion on Kiwirail already so I can understand why the gov dont wannt to spent too much more just now. Mind you cancelling projects like waterview would provide some ready cash.

I dunno, I think that kiwirail are still stuck in the past a bit thinking that only new equipment can solve their problems. From what I understand theres plenty of wagons and engines available for additional services which is what the freight industry wants. They may not be best but at least theyd do the job to start with. The public transport side is going to still receive subsidies though.

Weve already invested nearly a billion on Kiwirail already so I can understand why the gov dont wannt to spent too much more just now. Mind you cancelling projects like waterview would provide some ready cash.

I must agree with you re stock..

I would think the biggest problem is the cost paid for the thing in the first instance.. Blaming Labour now though is not really going to get anyone anywhere, but nor is being overly critical of National over taking a cautious approach to capex this early in the piece. It is inevitable that lines will be closed over time.. traditional industry and commerce has moved away from some (particularly Rural) areas over the years, and it seems obvious atleast initially to service (properly) the profitable regions..

I have my doubts about how long, if ever Kiwi rail will take to get out of the red, however its probably better to have the destiny of it in the Governments hands than a company whos only interest is in their bottom line.. In this regard I think Labour did the right thing by purchasing it off Toll..

As for your comment re Waterview this is a much needed link in Akl..

I must agree with you re stock..

In this regard I think Labour did the right thing by purchasing it off Toll

Although they got severely screwed on the price, $300m would have probably been a better price, but you had a buyer who was doing it for politics not economics and was not prepared to walk away from the table.

Paying $300m and then having $3-500million to pour into Capex, would have been the optimal outcome.

It was back in the 90's when Wisconsin central bought kiwirail that they mooted closing the DUD-IVC line, I'm glad they didn't. they were to focus on Auckland-Dunedin as the main bussiness model. they brought in 24 hour service from AKL-CHC which was one of the best things they did to speed up the freight delivery. also there was talk of using the Gisborne line to carry logs from the vast plantations in the area what happened to that plan.

Although they got severely screwed on the price, $300m would have probably been a better price, but you had a buyer who was doing it for politics not economics and was not prepared to walk away from the table.

Paying $300m and then having $3-500million to pour into Capex, would have been the optimal outcome.

agreed completely.. toll must have laughed all the way to the bank... However the rolling stock is but a drop in the ocean compared to the cost to maintain the tracks.. I have heard that as high as 70% of the rail bridges in the Sth Island are nearing the end of their expected life... if this is true (which I have no reason to doubt the source) then by comparison the purchase price will become insignificant!!

I can't see how the govt expects KiwiRail to operate as a financially viable business when it will have to pick up the tab for all the years of under-investment and deferred maintenance.

To make the playing field truly level, then the government should pay KiwiRail for 100% of the costs to get the WHOLE rail network, including little used lines, back to a normal operational standard capable of taking passenger services on all but the industrial lines and sidings.

After that, THEN the government should tell Kiwirail to run as a business like any other transport operator.

The big issue going forward is that while KiwiRail can operate profitably as far as "running trains" goes. Can it operate profitably if it has to pay for the full cost of (a) bringing the rail network up to normal standards and (b) continue to renew and improve the network such as bridge replacement when needed etc?... I suspect probably not.

So as a result, the likely casualties will be closure of lines as KiwiRail struggle to pay for the upkeep of all but the most important bits of track - a sad moment for NZ when this happens because as we can see from past history, once a line closes and the track is lifted, it is almost certain that trains will never ever run again to that area again.

The lines I suspect will go will be:
1) Napier to Gisborne (I think this has only one train return per week)
2) Stratford-Ohura? (One return train each day)
3) Wairio Branch in Southland (I think there is one coal train per day)
4) Hokitika Branch (1 return train each day)
5) Rotorua Branch will never get reinstated

One train per week for Napier-Gisborne?? Damn, that can't be efficient

One train per week for Napier-Gisborne?? Damn, that can't be efficient

Wonder what goods theyre taking? Itd probably be better to use small freighters to take the goods to a city port like Tauranga or perhaps to a smaller town port like Napier to be loaded on larger vessels. Cant see the line being used for passengers.

Wonder what goods theyre taking? Itd probably be better to use small freighters to take the goods to a city port like Tauranga or perhaps to a smaller town port like Napier to be loaded on larger vessels. Cant see the line being used for passengers.

Keeping one train a week on Napier-Gis is a power game, pure and simple, if they let it drop below that level of "regular service" it would have its safety rating removed, once that happens the likelyhood of being able to have the spending authorised to upgrade the line is about Zero. It does not have a current safety rating for passenger movements.

Ontrack are also paranoid about the line being pinched by Tourism as a cycleway,

Its all about empires.

Also take into account that we are currently $10.5 billion in debt and the fact that the government is busy with "Higher Priorities" i.e Rugby World Cup, National Cycle Way etc. is why the government is reluctant to develop the railways. It will probably come to the point where we have the trains to run, but no tracks to run them on.

Keeping one train a week on Napier-Gis is a power game, pure and simple, if they let it drop below that level of "regular service" it would have its safety rating removed, once that happens the likelyhood of being able to have the spending authorised to upgrade the line is about Zero. It does not have a current safety rating for passenger movements.

Ontrack are also paranoid about the line being pinched by Tourism as a cycleway,

Its all about empires.

^^ Exactly - removal of this weekly service would be a nail in the coffin for the line really. As it is, I think it would be hard for KiwiRail to be able to promote their freight service to Gisborne. But if it were less than a weekly service, then it would be next to impossible for all but a major player requiring a very large amount of capacity such as logging.

As soon as trains stop, the tourist operators will want it and while I don't necessarily have an objection to using ex-rail corridors for tourism (as has been done successfully with the Taieri Gorge Railway and the Little River Railway), its a case of "once the line is closed and track lifted, it will be impossible to ever re-instate it"

Wonder what goods theyre taking? Itd probably be better to use small freighters to take the goods to a city port like Tauranga or perhaps to a smaller town port like Napier to be loaded on larger vessels. Cant see the line being used for passengers.

Out of interest, why do you refer to Tauranga as a 'city' and yet Napier as a 'town'? It's just clicked (after reading in the economy thread about Fairfax) with me that you seem to consider Tauranga to be of a different status to the other smaller cities.

^^ Interesting point...

I think that up until about the year 2000, it was just commonly accepted that the "Main Centres" referred to AKL,WGN, CHC and DUD. This was despite the fact that the Hamilton Urban Area has been somewhat larger than Dunedin's for a number of years.

Most of the reasons for this would be purely historical, since up until Hamilton's growth spurt in the 1970-80's, the Traditional Four were way ahead of the rest in population. Also, the fact they were evenly spread down the country meant they were the primary economic centre(s) for the whole region each was located in.

But now that Hamilton has 160k people, Tauranga has 110k-odd, Napier-Hastings combined population has 120k and even Palmerston North is closing in on 80k or so, and are growing rapidly, there is probably a reasonably fair expectation that these cities get more exposure.

The only thing that I'd say is that Dunedin still seems to feel much larger when driving trough it than do the cities of Hamilton, Tauranga or Napier-Hastings. Some of this will be the fact that Dunedin has a lot of larger bulky buildings, (though probably many with high vacancy rates), has a couple of motorways, and is home to a sizable university.

Hamilton has a university and some big buildings, though the university is on the edge of town (like Palmy), and neither has motorways. Tauranga has motorways (well expressways) and feels big as it's spread out, but is all suburbia, little commercial highrises and no university. It does have a big port though. Napier/Hastings have a mini-motorway, but little highrises and since they are still 15km apart, they still feel like individual cities in their own right - and at 50-60k each, thats much the same as the small town feel you get from Nelson, Whangarei, Invercargill etc.

Well Nelson's sort of a mini Napier-Hastings itself, as it's two smaller urban areas joined together (Nelson and Richmond) which probably accounts for some of it's feel. As for Nelson, appropriate to this thread is that it's the only city in NZ with no rail connection. Which I suppose makes it special.

Out of interest, why do you refer to Tauranga as a 'city' and yet Napier as a 'town'? It's just clicked (after reading in the economy thread about Fairfax) with me that you seem to consider Tauranga to be of a different status to the other smaller cities.

Coz the cities are Auckland Hamilton Tauranga Wellington Christchurch Dunedin. Anything thats over 100,000 population wise.

Places like Napier really are rather large towns.

Coz the cities are Auckland Hamilton Tauranga Wellington Christchurch Dunedin. Anything thats over 100,000 population wise.

Places like Napier really are rather large towns.

Yes but with Napier and Hastings so close together, the two cities are commonly referred to as one single urban area.

For the record, you could almost argue the same with Tauranga and Mt Maunganui/Papamoa - Although they are both Tauranga City, many people still refer to both places as having distinctly separate identities.

Napier to Hastings via Google's shortest route is 20.8km CDB to CBD

If it weren't for the Tauranga Harbour bridge, Tauranga to the Mount would be 18.6km (It's only 7km via the bridge). Tauranga to Domain Rd in Papamoa is 16.5km

Dunedin City to Mosgiel is 18.3km

Why o Why has rail been abandoned in New Zealand? If initial plans had gone ahead from the nineteenth century, we would have a well connected rail system and a far more industrialized nation. New Zealand was eyed by the English as the Britain of the South. What are the chances of New Zealand getting quality rail infrastructure in the future as it is imperative for our economic growth and future prosperity.

Why o Why has rail been abandoned in New Zealand?

Because there is no one here to use it, Rail works when you have lots of people and things to move, NZ has no people and the only stuff we need to move is to a port to ship somewhere else.

UK has over 60 million, NZ has 4,

^^
Rail service used to be much more comprehensive than what it is now. What happened, NZs population decreased in the last 60 years?

Coz the cities are Auckland Hamilton Tauranga Wellington Christchurch Dunedin. Anything thats over 100,000 population wise.

Places like Napier really are rather large towns.

I have never heard that definition of city before, either technically or in common usage.

On paper, the cities are actually North Shore, Auckland, Waitakere, Manukau, Tauranga, Hamilton, Napier, Palmerston North, Porirua, Lower Hutt, Upper Hutt, Wellington, Nelson, Christchurch, Dunedin, Invercargill.

Or, in common usage:

Whangerei
Auckland
Tauranga
Hamilton
Rotorua
New Plymouth
Wanganui
Hastings
Napier
Palmerston North
Wellington
Nelson
Christchurch
Dunedin
Invercargill

Plus often Gisborne and occasionally Timaru.

I have never heard anyone refer to a 'city' as being somewhere with more than 100k. 50k is more usual, with a few 30-40k places. (Sorry this has nothing to do with trains lol).

Why o Why has rail been abandoned in New Zealand? If initial plans had gone ahead from the nineteenth century, we would have a well connected rail system and a far more industrialized nation. New Zealand was eyed by the English as the Britain of the South. What are the chances of New Zealand getting quality rail infrastructure in the future as it is imperative for our economic growth and future prosperity.

Way back in the 70's Rail was protected and it carried far more freight and passengers than today. I think the Government had a policy to protect rail. One law was all freight to be transported over 40 miles had to be carried by rail if it was along a rail route anything less than 40 miles could be carried by truck. So that policy meant all freight going between the main cities went on rail. Later on the transport sector was libralised and the laws to protect rail were dropped to allow trucking companies compete on the longhaul journeys. Since then the rail industry in NZ has been in decline.

Way back in the 70's Rail was protected and it carried far more freight and passengers than today. I think the Government had a policy to protect rail. One law was all freight to be transported over 40 miles had to be carried by rail if it was along a rail route anything less than 40 miles could be carried by truck. So that policy meant all freight going between the main cities went on rail. Later on the transport sector was libralised and the laws to protect rail were dropped to allow trucking companies compete on the longhaul journeys. Since then the rail industry in NZ has been in decline.

Yes agreed, that is the main reason for rails demise. But even with the law in force, (which effectively made them a monopoly in the 'long distance' freight market), the rail industry was always a massive drain on the country's financial coffers. So much so that it was a common joke that if you were jobless, you went to the Railways Department for your weekly handout rather than the then Social Welfare. I think at it's peak it employed something like 27,000 people in NZ.

While many proponents of Rail would love to go back to the good-ol days of Rail in NZ, complete with branch lines to all-and-sundry towns around the country, the reality is that it would never be sustainable.

Rail in NZ I think is really only likely to be viable between major cities and towns, on most of the remaining corridors, and used by major bulk industry (coal, dairy, timber, cement, fertilizer) etc. Passenger services will continue to flourish and become more popular for commuters in AK, WN and eventually maybe CH. Regional routes between Auckland and the Waikato/Bay of Plenty are likely eventually too. But long distance inter-regional passenger services is likely to remain a tourist attraction only.

I have never heard that definition of city before, either technically or in common usage.

On paper, the cities are actually North Shore, Auckland, Waitakere, Manukau, Tauranga, Hamilton, Napier, Palmerston North, Porirua, Lower Hutt, Upper Hutt, Wellington, Nelson, Christchurch, Dunedin, Invercargill.

Or, in common usage:

Whangerei
Auckland
Tauranga
Hamilton
Rotorua
New Plymouth
Wanganui
Hastings
Napier
Palmerston North
Wellington
Nelson
Christchurch
Dunedin
Invercargill

Plus often Gisborne and occasionally Timaru.

I have never heard anyone refer to a 'city' as being somewhere with more than 100k. 50k is more usual, with a few 30-40k places. (Sorry this has nothing to do with trains lol).

New Zealand has NEVER had an official policy on what constitutes a City.

Before the 1989 Local Government reforms, towns could proclaim themselves a "Borough", and therefore became a self governing council entity. Previously, they would have been a town in a "County" council.

There was no real size requirement for when a town could become a Borough, but typically it was around 5000 people, though there were a number of Borough's that proclaimed themselves a borough with less than that. Also, if a town's population subsequently dropped below, they didn't lose that status. The small township of Naseby in Central Otago was still a Borough in 1989 yet only had around 200 people.

When a Borough got big enough, it could proclaim City status if you reached 20,000 people. In 1989, Masterton had just under 20,000 and so was not proclaimed a city. Blenheim also was under 20,000 as was Tokoroa and Taupo.

In 1989, Local Governments were completely changed and now we have District and City councils. Many smaller cities changed to "District Councils", and many of the larger cities retained "City Councils". Curiously, Napier which had 52000 people in 1989 was changed to a City Council, yet nearby Hastings, which had a larger population on 56000 was changed to a District Council. Tauranga also had more than 50,000 (though much of that excess was really Mt Maunganui/Papamoa) yet was only a District Council until the late 1990's when it once again became a City Council.

Since 1989 however, some towns such as Kapiti Coast, Masterton, Taupo and Blenheim have increased their populations to over 20,000 but these have not been recognised as cities even though in some cases such as Blenheim (~30,000), which has a greater population than Timaru (~27,000).

These days, a place is no longer recognised as a city unless you reach the 50,000 mark (unless you were already a city prior to the 1989 reforms). When you get to that population, it doesn't have to then become a City Council.

Even though we are 20 years on from the Local Govt reforms of 1989, there have been no 'New Cities' that were previously only towns prior to 1989. This is because any likely candidates would have had to have had less than 20,000 in 1989, and more than 50,000 today. The next likely places to gain a city status under this new requirement would be either Kapiti Coast (~37,000 - though spread out amongst a number of nearly adjoining coastal towns), Blenheim (~30,000) and Taupo (~23,000) - still quite a long way off becoming a city.

If the mining industry is to ramp up its operations particularly in Otago/Southland which is very likely, then it is likely that rail coverage of that area will improve. More mining on the West Coast possibly could, although it is a long way off. In saying that modern rail networks are different and probably wouldn't require large numbers of staff like in the past. I still think rail is due to play a more significant role in New Zealand, it is probably more in the long term.

^^ Yes, mining is usually a very big user of the rail systems due to the large quantities of product being moved. Hopefully the Nat Govt's mining policy strengthens the national rail network.

Rail in NZ I think is really only likely to be viable between major cities and towns, on most of the remaining corridors, and used by major bulk industry (coal, dairy, timber, cement, fertilizer) etc. Passenger services will continue to flourish and become more popular for commuters in AK, WN and eventually maybe CH. Regional routes between Auckland and the Waikato/Bay of Plenty are likely eventually too. But long distance inter-regional passenger services is likely to remain a tourist attraction only.

I think you are bang on the money there Kane. Rail wont work like it used to with branches running of into every sparsley populated corner of NZ. The examples you use are exactly how I would see it fitting into NZ's transport mix at the moment.

NZ needs more people. But it is a leaky bucket at the moment - pour them in the front end, they leak out the bottom, hence my call to shut the Australian door to NZ - for your own good.

New Zealand wouldn't have been much use as the England of the South. One England is enough.

Something very different, more like Japan would have been the go. You can keep the existing people in mining and agriculture while bringing more in to create services or industry.

Eco-rat, that'd be a pretty big blow to Australia you realise. It seems to lap immigrants (or at least, long-term NZ visitors) up quite happily. By all means however, send them home, they'd be quite useful. Send some Australians with them if you want.

England of the South is merely an analogy expressed in the later 19th century by politicians who could see the potential of New Zealand's iron ore industry. While New Zealand maybe geographically isolated it does sit at the doorway of Asia which is much larger than the EU and growing at a much faster rate. So comparisons to Ireland to some degree may not be so rediculous. New Zealand does need to grow its population at a faster rate. 5 millon in the next decade and a half is too small. It really needs to increase at a faster rate possibly at a similar rate to Australia which is not unrealistic if attempts by Key to increase economic growth are realised.

Yes but with Napier and Hastings so close together, the two cities are commonly referred to as one single urban area.

For the record, you could almost argue the same with Tauranga and Mt Maunganui/Papamoa - Although they are both Tauranga City, many people still refer to both places as having distinctly separate identities.

Napier to Hastings via Google's shortest route is 20.8km CDB to CBD


Yeah but Napier and Hastings are completely different towns are way different from one another.


If it weren't for the Tauranga Harbour bridge, Tauranga to the Mount would be 18.6km (It's only 7km via the bridge). Tauranga to Domain Rd in Papamoa is 16.5km

The Tauranga City boundry includes the Mt, Papamoa and all the other suburbs.

I have never heard that definition of city before, either technically or in common usage.

Its pretty common amongst people I know and one of the weather channels still calls them cities.

Places like Invercargil, Palmy and Napier are big towns, but still rather sleepy compared to places like Tauranga and Hamilton. Up to you, but 100,000 seems to be the magical number to be taken seriously. Even palmy has aspirations to get to that level one day.

This has inspired a poll!

Yeah but Napier and Hastings are completely different towns are way different from one another.

The Tauranga City boundry includes the Mt, Papamoa and all the other suburbs.

They might be different towns/cities, but there are synergies that mean that they interoperate as one city socially. There are infrastructure developments over and above what would be necessary if they were the same two places, but say 100km apart. The Napier-Hastings motorway/expressway would not be needed if the cities were 100km apart. This suggests that the economy of one city relies on the other and vice versa. Even Statistics NZ consider the Napier-Hastings as one Urban Area.

With Tauranga, prior to the 1989 local govt reforms, Mt Maunganui was a separate town, with a separate council. Then, during the reforms, Tauranga was made a District Council, which also encompassed Mt Maunganui with a total district population of in excess of 60,000. When most folk realised that Mt Maunganui for all intended purposes was really a suburban extension to Tauranga, people lobbied for it to be reclassified as a city which it was done in about 1996 I think.

Napier & Hastings do feel smaller, because they are separate towns with 10km of greedfields between them - but there is little denying that they interoperate enough with each other, albeit with different local councils, to be considered as one urban area in much the same way Wellington is considered by many to include Upper Hutt, Porirua etc (which are also separate councils with greenspace between them).

The physical distance between any of those Wellington cities is no more than a few hundred feet (in the case of Upper-Lower Hutt) to 1-2km in the case of the distances between any of the others though. Napier to Hastings is about 8km by the looks of it.

The closest two points in the urban areas of Wellington and Lower Hutt by road I've measured to be exactly 5km (Start of Ngauranga Northbound on-ramp to Hutt Road finishing at the roundabout at Petone which is the end of the Petone northbound off-ramp)

The two closest points between Napier and Hastings is 10.6km (Evenden/Papakowhai Rd in Hastings to Meeanee/Guppy Rd corner in Napier).

Yes, it is just over double the distance though there isn't really much real development in the Ngauranga interchange area, you have to go another 1-2km further into wellington.

Once Napier and Hastings both reach say 100,000 each, then urban sprawl would probably see the two significantly closer together. I can eventually see Napier becoming more like what Mt Maunganui is now with its shoreline apartments, sprawling coastal suburban areas. Only the beach at Napier is pretty average if I recall.

With the growth rates in Napier and Hastings its gonna take a hell of a long time for the population to increase that much and I dont think there will be much rail development over there. The golden triangle will be the main growth area in the country for the foreseeable future and thanks to the development money government is pushing into the region thats not going to change for a long time.

It's unlikely Napier and Hastings will ever merge, not just because of a pretty low growth rate currently but also the plains between the two are the engine that powers the region. That said however, KaneD has hit it on the head I think. Statistics NZ considers them a single urban area and fair enough. You live in either Napier or Hastings and you go looking for a job, you don't really care which city it's in. Commute is short and 1000's of people make the jump every day.

Mainfreight frustrated by attitude to rail services
Thursday November 19, 01:38 PM


Mainfreight continues to be disappointed at the Government's attitude and commitment to rail freight services in this country.

The logistics company believes it is among Kiwirail's top five customers and would double its spend if it got the right rate and services.

"We don't seem to have a lot of dialogue with (Transport Minister Steven) Mr Joyce on what our thoughts are on rail and would like to have more," Mainfreight managing director Don Braid said.

Mainfreight and other logistics companies have always suspected that Toll NZ, which is the rebuilt former land transport business of Tranz Rail, gets a better deal on rail even after rail was sold back to the Government.

Mr Braid said some ground had been made on the issue but the truth would probably never be known.

Mainfreight today reported a 36.5 percent fall in half year profit to $10.9 million, even as conditions in all markets where the company operates were "much improved" in the second quarter.

For the six months to the end of September, Mainfreight's trading revenue fell 14.3 percent from a year earlier to $535.8m, while net profit before abnormals dropped 29.3 percent to $12.2m.

"Importantly, second quarter performance saw revenues and profitability improve markedly from our first quarter's results," Mainfreight said.

Direct comparisons showed revenues up 4.8 percent and ebitda (earnings before interest, tax, depreciation and amortisation) up 50.5 percent.

While seasonality of freight volumes was a contributor, trading during the second quarter had seen a general improvement which continued into the third quarter, the company said.

"We welcome the upturn but remain cautious about overall economic conditions in each country where we are located."

Trading during October and November indicated further improvements likely for the third quarter, Mainfreight said.

"We believe that the market will be fragile for the first quarter of calendar 2010, therefore we remain focused on improving margins and sales growth with strong sales campaigns."

An interim dividend of 8.5c per share is to be paid.

In the New Zealand domestic division, ebitda declined 14.5 percent to $14.5m compared with the same period last year, but September 2009 month ebitda exceeded that of September 2008 by 9.8 percent. Sales revenues fell 16.4 percent to $128.4m, down $25.2m from a year earlier.

Domestic freight volumes were rising with increased market share assisting revenues.

In the Australian domestic division ebitda was up 41.5 percent to $6m, while sales revenues fell 4.7 percent to $90.6m.

Warehousing volumes had been strong through September and October as suppliers to retail built stock volumes for Christmas, Mainfreight said.

In the United States , trading continued to be difficult in both the domestic and export sectors. Even with a weak US dollar, export volumes had declined from their peaks at this time last year.

Total revenues fell 24.7 percent to $164.7m, while ebitda for the region was $3m down from $8.4m in the year prior.

Fonterra plans new rail spur

Dairy giant Fonterra is proposing to build a railway spur across State Highway 1, north of its Edendale dairy factory, as it plans for a major increase in production and transporting most of it off-site by rail.

Fonterra has lodged a land use consent application with the Southland District Council for the new railway line, which would run from the new dry store, at the northern end of the plant, through company-owned farmland and across the state highway, about 650m north, to join with the main south trunk line.

There would also be a new sidings yard 100m north of the dry store, for marshalling wagons.

Fonterra wants permission to use the line 24 hours a day, seven days a week. It estimates that initially there would be six trains a day. Each train movement would involve 16 wagons and take between three and four minutes to cross the state highway.

In its application, Fonterra states there were about 4000 vehicles a day over the section of road. However, traffic volumes were expected to substantially reduce in a couple of years when it was expected a new state highway bypass would be completed, it says.

The new railway crossing was needed to enable the company to cope with the estimated 135,000-tonne increase in production delivered by its new milk powder plant expansion.

In the year ended July 2009, almost 250,000 tonnes of product were moved off the Edendale site, about 75 per cent of it by rail.

Fonterra's objective was to increase the percentage of product shifted by rail to 95 per cent. It would go to a new storage and distribution centre in Mosgiel then on to Port Otago.

The plant was at present serviced by a line at the southern end, which crosses state highway 1 at the south-east corner of the site. There were 24 train movements a day and these were restricted to between four and eight wagons, because of the size of the shunters and grade of the line.

Continued use of this line was not considered suitable because it was too close to Edendale township. However, it would still be used about 12 times a day to move cheese and some packaging.

The public can make submissions on the application until February 3.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/news/3252264/Fonterra-plans-new-rail-spur

Port profit up 50%, rail operation improves efficiency



Published 19 February 2010

Ports of Auckland Ltd improved its net profit after tax from $9.3 million to $13.9 million in the December half and will pay the region a $9.9 million dividend.



The port company is owned by Auckland Regional Holdings, a subsidiary of the Auckland Regional Council, and will fall under the wing of the new Auckland Council at the end of the year.



Managing director Jens Madsen was pleased at the result, achieved during a period of lower trade volumes as a result of the global economic recession.



Port operations ebit improved by 4.6% to $27.4 million although revenue fell 6.8% to $82 million. That took the port operations ebit margin to its best level since 2006 – a 33.4% margin compared to 26.3% in the June half.



Mr Madsen said the overall improvement in result was also due to a number of long-term initiatives starting to pay off, among them the growth in business at the Wiri Inland Port, which received its first train on 3 February.



While rail will become more important – and, in time, transfer of containers from ship directly to rail, bypassing the wharf storage phase – Mr Madsen said road freight would continue to dominate for the foreseeable future.



The inland port’s capacity is far above what it’s handling at the moment – capacity of 500,000 teus (20ft-equivalent container units), 80,000 handled last year. The joint company with the NZL Group Ltd, CONLINXX Ltd, has a target of getting 25% of containers to & from Wiri by rail. Mr Madsen said that rail service would probably deliver 16-17% of containers on an annualised basis in the next year.



One feature of the rail service is that it provides a more consistent flow of freight. But even with the rail service and an improvement in the region’s arterial road network, Mr Madsen said a recent study indicated the growth in traffic would keep congestion in a decade about the same as it is now.

KiwiRail positive despite missing targets
5:46 PM Tuesday Mar 2, 2010


Jim Bolger said KiwiRail was making good progress towards a sustainable future. Photo / Paul EstcourtKiwiRail is behind its revenue and profit targets for the half year to December but says it is "making good progress towards a sustainable future".

The state owned enterprise, which owns the rail companies, Interislander ferries and Dunedin's Hillside Engineering, today released its financial results for the six months ended December 2, 2009.

Chairman Jim Bolger said comparisons with the half year to December 2008 were difficult because the Government took over the business during that period.

Comparison with targets set for the year in KiwiRail's Statement of Corporate Intent (SCI) were more valid, he said.

KiwiRail said revenue of $299.7 million was just over 8 per cent below the SCI target of $327.8m, but earnings before interest, taxation, depreciation and amortisation (ebitda) of $16.1m were almost 12 per cent up on target of $14.4m.

The net profit after tax figure of $125.6m was 66 per cent below the SCI target.


For 2010 KiwiRail budgeted a profit of $348.3m.

However, that includes a government grant of $500m for new Auckland trains and without that it is forecasting a loss of $151.7m.

The full half year accounts will be tabled in Parliament tomorrow.

Despite difficult trading conditions over the first six months of the 2009-10 financial year, KiwiRail was making good progress towards a sustainable future, Mr Bolger said.

"During the half year, we made considerable progress towards improving relationships with key customers and we took significant steps towards improving the reliability of the business. However, there is a lot more to do as highlighted by the recent issues in Wellington that affected our customers," he said.

Freight carried on rail during the first six months of the financial year was only marginally down on the same period the year before, despite industrial action which reduced coal volumes.

During the half year KiwiRail signed an agreement with Fonterra to move greater volumes of dairy produce by rail, committed to buying 20 new diesel electric locomotives and the commissioned the Arahura Road-Rail bridge on the West Coast.

"Our work on the Auckland and Wellington urban rail projects represents the biggest upgrades since the networks were first established."

Over the next six months, KiwiRail was looking to increase revenue and manage operating and capital expenditure, Mr Bolger said.

The ebitda target of $59.6m for the 2010 financial year of $59.6 remained the company's objective.

The Government paid Australia's Toll Holdings for $690m in July 2008 for the rail company. The price was widely criticised and less than a year later the rail assets were valued at just $349 million.

KiwiRail receives $90m a year from the Government.

- NZPA

Choo-choos potentially go bye-bye for Gisborne, northern Wairarapa

Provincial rail lines could close as the government moves to get KiwiRail back on track financially.

Bought with great fanfare for $690 million, KiwiRail is now worth about half that much and National wants the rail company back on its financial feet.

Transport Minister Steven Joyce told ONE News political editor Guyon Espiner that one of the options being talked about is closing down parts of the network that aren't going to be commercially viable.

"It has been talked about...probably the most likely option would be a few of the really small lines," says Joyce.

"There's very little business currently on the Gisborne line and there's virtually no business on the northern Wairarapa line."

KiwiRail is now working through its options with the government.

But Joyce says closing some lines which don't have enough revenue just lifts the fixed costs on every other line and he says such a move "would have to be done very carefully".
Advertisement


KiwiRail has given the government a business plan to map out how it can become viable without taxpayer subsidies. The exact details of that plan remain secret but its latest financial result has been tabled in parliament and the numbers are not good.

The company did declare a $125 million profit - 34% below its target - but without public funding of $260 million KiwiRail would have made a loss of about $135 million.

However Labour says National is taking a shortsighted view.

"It seems crazy to me that we're going to see a doubling in the amount of freight moving around New Zealand in the next two decades and the government is seriously considering closing off options for rail," transport spokesman Darren Hughes says.

And National is promising careful consideration of the situation, acknowledging that once a rail line is closed, it's gone for good.

High class rail network needed

A transport expert says it would be a mistake to get rid of New Zealand's rail corridor. But Chris Kissling says the country needs a higher class main trunk system.

The Professor Emeritus of Transport at Lincoln University told TVNZ News at 8 that our rail network is incomplete and a lot of money would be needed to bring it up to scratch.

"Patronage on any transport system relies upon the quality and level of services provided," says Kissling, adding that other forms of transport are beating rail hands down including on frequency and price.

He says it is ludicrous that rail is slower than road in New Zealand which doesn't happen in any other country. Kissling says speeds need to be higher so rail traffic can reach further in 24 hours and compete with other modes of transport.

If you close a railway it's very hard to get back again, says Kissling who believes rail is necessary to move around heavy bulk commodities. But he says coastal shipping, which is also "in a pretty sad state", could provide the backbone of NZ's transport system.

Kissling says other modes of transport can substitute for rail but the electrification of the rail network using renewable sources would also have environmental benefits and would ensure security of supply as energy gets scarce.

http://tvnz.co.nz/politics-news/end-line-some-rail-services-3393178

I'd love ACTUAL passenger train services in the South Island, ie not just tourist ones. A service like the Southerner would be really useful for me. Anyone know how fast that train actually went?

I'd love ACTUAL passenger train services in the South Island, ie not just tourist ones. A service like the Southerner would be really useful for me. Anyone know how fast that train actually went?

From http://www.med.govt.nz/templates/MultipageDocumentTOC____3403.as (http://www.med.govt.nz/templates/MultipageDocumentTOC____3403.aspx)px


4.2 Situation
The Current Service

The Southerner rail service runs daily from Christchurch to Invercargill and from Invercargill to Christchurch. The south-bound service leaves Christchurch at 8:15am, arriving in Dunedin at 2:01pm (5 hours, 45 minutes) and Invercargill at 5:15pm (9 hours total). The north-bound services leave Invercargill at 8:25am, arriving in Christchurch at 5:15pm (8 hours 50 minutes).

Between Christchurch and Dunedin, stops are made at Ashburton, Timaru, Oamaru and Palmerston. Between Dunedin and Invercargill, stops are made at Mosgiel, Milton, Balclutha, Gore, Mataura and Edendale. No stops of any significant duration are made en route. The longest stop made is in Dunedin (10-15 minutes).

Google Maps says CHC-DUN is 350 odd KM, so the average speed is around 60km/h for that section, CHC-INV is 560 km, and again the average speed is just over 60km/h

That's not bad. Including stops for refreshments etc it takes about 8 hours Inv to Chch by car.

Anyone remember ticket prices?

That's not bad. Including stops for refreshments etc it takes about 8 hours Inv to Chch by car.

Anyone remember ticket prices?

Between $40 and $80 depending on your seat, bookings etc ... The age of cut price airfares and door to door shuttles killed it.

Wonder what will happen as airfares get more expensive

^^ What Steven Joyce doesn't get is that in most countries, the government DOES subsidise rail networks to varying degrees. This is because they recognise that having a good rail network means having to spend less money elsewhere (eg: road repairs etc).

Also, I would think that in most countries, there will be numerous rail lines and spurs that aren't profitable but are still kept open... Why? Because rail spurs aren't meant to be the cash cow - They are there to provide feeder services to the trunk routes where big money can be made by running big and long trains, full of goods that get delivered to the the junction stations along the main lines. Without branch lines supplying the freight from the branch lines, those big and long trains would become medium sized trains or worse, small trains, and thus put even the main lines at risk of failure.

Going by the government view on it, we should also close most rural roads in the country too since they too won't be paying their way either. That would mean that in the South Island, we can probably close the Arthurs pass highway as it is a high cost to upgrade the existing constrained bits, the Haast Pass highway because of low traffic volumes and leave the Lewis Pass as the only route to the West Coast... That would sound sensible wouldn't it? As for Golden Bay, Karamea and the Catlins, well they would be cut off from the rest of NZ unfortunately.

Jim Bolger replaced as KiwiRail chair
By TRACY WATKINS - Stuff.co.nz

Former National Prime Minister Jim Bolger will be replaced as KiwiRail chair by Wellington company director John Spencer, it was confirmed today.

Following weeks of speculation, State Owned Enterprises Minister Simon Power confirmed Mr Bolger's replacement from July 1.

"Mr Bolger has been a strong leader for KiwiRail since its inception in October 2008 and I thank him for his dedicated service over that time," Mr Power said.

The appointment is one of nine changes made across the 11 state owned enterprises announced by Mr Power.

The other new directors are Diane Kidd on AsureQuality, John Dell and Rukumoana Schaafhausen on Genesis, Traci Houpapa on Landcorp, Mary Devine on Meridian, Prue Flacks on Mighty River Power, David Willis on NZ Post and David Patterson on solid Energy.

Mr Power said he was confident Mr Spencer would guide KiwiRail successfully through the challenges ahead.

Jim Bolger replaced as KiwiRail chair
By TRACY WATKINS - Stuff.co.nz

Former National Prime Minister Jim Bolger will be replaced as KiwiRail chair by Wellington company director John Spencer, it was confirmed today.

Following weeks of speculation, State Owned Enterprises Minister Simon Power confirmed Mr Bolger's replacement from July 1.

"Mr Bolger has been a strong leader for KiwiRail since its inception in October 2008 and I thank him for his dedicated service over that time," Mr Power said.

The appointment is one of nine changes made across the 11 state owned enterprises announced by Mr Power.

The other new directors are Diane Kidd on AsureQuality, John Dell and Rukumoana Schaafhausen on Genesis, Traci Houpapa on Landcorp, Mary Devine on Meridian, Prue Flacks on Mighty River Power, David Willis on NZ Post and David Patterson on solid Energy.

Mr Power said he was confident Mr Spencer would guide KiwiRail successfully through the challenges ahead.

Spencer is currently on the board of Solid Energy, so will have at least a cursory knowledge of rail's uses.

Nothing in this thread for a long time, bit of a worry.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5261409/Protesters-rally-against-job-losses

Protesters rally against job losses

Dunedin turned out in full force to defend proposed job losses at its Hillside Engineering Workshops.

It was a chilly day in the southern city but over a thousand people packed the city's Octagon hell-bent on saving proposed job losses at Hillside because of State-owned company, KiwiRail's move to outsource construction of rolling stock overseas.

Today's vocal crowd of workers, their families and supporters, showed plenty of anger and frustration against the company and John Key's Government by the representatives of various unions, opposition politicians, and Dunedin Mayor Dave Cull.

KiwiRail plans to award a $500 million rail construction job for the electrification of the Auckland rail network, and the building of 300 new container flat top wagons, to overseas manufacturers.

The company also announced last month it would lay off 70 staff nationally, 40 at the South Dunedin engineering workshop, prompting a campaign to keep Hillside operating.

Today's rally is supported by a petition which has been circulating in the city for around a month and now bears thousands of signatories.

Anyone know where all this money is going? $4 billion in infrastructure is a good spend.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/news/5298925/KiwiRail-to-spend-4b-on-upgrade

KiwiRail to spend $4b on upgrade

KiwiRail is spending millions of dollars upgrading Southland infrastructure after freight movements more than doubled in the past year.

Rail freight increased from about 150,000 tonne to 320,000 tonne in Southland in the past 12 months because of the boost in rail use from the dairy, timber and coal sectors.

KiwiRail chief executive Jim Quinn said the company had committed to spending $4 billion in infrastructure upgrades across New Zealand in the next 10 years and Southland was expected to benefit from that.

The upgrades included improvements to lines south of Dunedin to prevent bottlenecks in traffic as well the import of thousands of new rolling stock, such as wagons, which would eventually be seen in Southland, he said.

The company was also near completion of a $2.5m upgrade of the line between Invercargill and Ohai, where 26,000 wooden sleepers have been replaced to handle the increased traffic, he said.

There was a lot of demand on the rail lines south of Christchurch and the addition of Fonterra's fourth dryer to the Edendale plant in 2009 had been a large contributor to that, with increased loads of bulk dried and chilled dairy products, he said.

Mr Quinn was in Invercargill this month as part of a nationwide tour of KiwiRail sites to update workers on how the company was doing and its plans.

Despite about 40 people laid off at Hillside Engineering in Dunedin this month, Mr Quinn said there were no plans to review staff numbers in Southland and instead there was the possibility of employing more people.

The Southland Times

It's coming from within the company, the government is providing around 400 million, the rest has to come from 'profits' and through cut backs in other areas, closing lines, charging much higher access charges to commuter trains in Auckland and Wellington etc.

Not all good then, but in general what will NZ see for $4 billion?

Not all good then, but in general what will NZ see for $4 billion?

Basically the system was let to rot under private ownership, most of that money is being spent on track renewals and new diesel locos - all of which should have been done years ago. Basically the money will be used to bring the system back up to a somewhat modern standard, albeit only part. The NZ transport minister wants to see most of the network closed down to reduce competition with the trucking industry.

How forward thinking of him.

So what is the Ministerr aiming for? Does he want just want one line running the length of the country? Sounds very backwards.

Luckily there will be no branch line closures in the South Island.... Oh... hang on.... there aren't any branch lines left to close :).

Actually there are still a few, though only the Ngakawau-Stillwater and Wairio Industrial are of significance - the rest being more 'spur-like' to the various coal mines.

This is good to see some movement on this thread again... I read recently (on Railpage or better transport forum) that rail traffic in the far south has doubled in recent years and that things are looking up. It does seem that rail is re-emerging as a preferred long term/long distance mover of not just bulk freight but also general goods. Its just a pity that it may all be too little too late for smaller places like Gisborne and the far north that for one reason or another just can't seem to get the freight on to the trains. It is correct that there are very few branch lines left in the south Island, however those that are remaining seem to have a secure future with either dairy board or coal traffic.

Theres also the Hokitika branch.

The Government has confirmed a series of projects it says are 'the most significant investment in public transport infrastructure" in more than three decades.

Transport Minister Steven Joyce today released the Government Policy Statement on Land Transport Funding (GPS).

It outlines $36 billion of spending over the next 10 years on roads and trains infrastructure.

The spending plan would be mostly funded by the transport related charges - fuel excise duty (FED), road user charges (RUC) and motor vehicle registration fees (MVR). In April, the Government announced FED would increase by a total of about 3.5 cents a litre in 2012 and 2013.

The funding for local roads and walking and cycling would allow "steady improvements in those parts of the network", the Government said.

Among the projects confirmed were:

* $1.6 billion in the development of Auckland's metro rail system, which comprises:
* $600m for Project DART
* $500m for the infrastructure required to support electrification
* $500m loan funding for the purchase of electric trains

* $400m on Wellington's metro rail upgrade, which has included double-tracking to Waikanae and the purchase of 48 new two-car Matangi trains.

* A further $88.4 million for upgrades to the Wellington metro rail network as part of a funding and ownership package with the Greater Wellington Regional Council.

Joyce said the spending represented "by far the most significant investment in public transport infrastructure'' since new trains were introduced in Wellington in the late 1970s.

"Taken together, the National Land Transport Fund investments and the parallel rail investments we are making are a huge investment in transport for a country of New Zealand's size,'' Joyce said.

The new GPS would take effect from July next year and would help guide the development of the next National Land Transport Programme.

Joyce also announced a new Road Maintenance Task Force to try and improve value for money and cut costs for roading authorities.

The taskforce was set up alongside the new GPS to encourage initiatives in road maintenance that saved money without sacrificing quality.

Some authorities had failed to achieve better value for money in the past two years.

The task force, to start work next month, would be made up of people from local government, industry, and the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA).

It would issue findings in a report by April 2012.

Let's have a look at the more than $1.6 billion this government has apparently invested in passenger rail:


* $600m for Project DART

Budgeted for in 2006 by the last govt most of this was already complete by the time they came to office

$500m for the infrastructure required to support electrification -

Budgeted for in 2008 by the last govt

* $500m loan funding for the purchase of electric trains -

This is a loan that has to be repaid by Auckland ratepayers so it's not being funded by government

* $400m on Wellington's metro rail upgrade, which has included double-tracking to Waikanae and the purchase of 48 new two-car Matangi trains. - Purchase of Wellington's new trains was funded by the last govt in i think 2005


Joyce said the spending represented "by far the most significant investment in public transport infrastructure''
Total and utter crap

I guess this is the end of rail for gisborne. www.stuff.co.nz/national/6746329/Gisborne-rail-rally-fails-to-convince

I guess this is the end of rail for gisborne. www.stuff.co.nz/national/6746329/Gisborne-rail-rally-fails-to-convince

You're rejoicing about that no doubt.

You're rejoicing about that no doubt.

Nope just being realistic. A small town wants to have road rail seaport and an airport but cant support any of those independently so some have got to go. Now that the rail has disappeared it makes sense for rail to go.

Nope just being realistic. A small town wants to have road rail seaport and an airport but cant support any of those independently so some have got to go. Now that the rail has disappeared it makes sense for rail to go.

But it wasn't business moving elsewhere. It was a slip undermining the line. And that's probably the worst excuse for withdrawing funding. It's like saying Nelson can no longer have an airport because eveything can easily be done via Wellington or Christchurch.

Sad day for Gisborne.

KiwiRail plans to sell Hillside as going concern

Staff at KiwiRail's Hillside railway engineering workshop in Dunedin were shocked at today's announcement their workplace was up for sale, their union representative says.

The state-owned rail company made the surprise announcement this morning, blindsiding around 130 people employed at the south Dunedin workshops.

"There was genuine shock, given that these workers have been through a lot over the last few years," Rail and Maritime Transport Union General Secretary Wayne Butson said.

"They give their heart and soul every time they come to work. They didn't expect it to be for sale."

Hillside has long been one of Dunedin's biggest employers, and in its heyday employed more than 1000 people making railway engines and rolling stock.

KiwiRail has steadily decreased the workload at Hillside, and last year laid off 44 workers.

The business will be advertised for sale as a going concern from early May, with a final decision by August.

KiwiRail chief executive Jim Quinn said the decision would be difficult for staff, and had been made after analysing the financial impact of the reduction in construction and refurbishment forward work orders for Hillside.

"We are looking for a sale outcome that secures Hillside's future as New Zealand's largest heavy engineering site," Quinn said.

"If this type of sale eventuates we will then continue to allocate some heavy maintenance work on commercial terms to the new owners of the facility.

"We think this is an ideal opportunity for a business with more industrial commercial engineering experience and a wider customer base to take the site over. They can target these customers with more product scope than we could."

Rail and Maritime Transport Union Hillside branch chairman Stuart Johnstone said workers were optimistic, despite the initial shock of the announcement.

"It is an opportunity for the future," he said.

"It's no secret that KiwiRail have had problems managing Hillside and this gives the opportunity for the workers with a new management team coming in to really flourish and the workers want to do that... As far as our engineering skills go we can tackle almost any job."

Hillside has long been one of Dunedin's biggest employers, and in its heyday employed more than 1000 people making railway engines and rolling stock.

Dunedin civic and business interests banded together in 2010 to lobby for Hillside's survival.

As well as being a major employer, Hillside plays an important role in the city's engineering hub, and generates an estimated $20-$30m annually for the Dunedin economy.
Mayor Dave Cull tried to put a positive spin on today's announcement, calling it a potential positive for Dunedin.

"Sometimes the ideal solution isn't available so you have to take the best one. This one appears to be the best move forward in terms of the future of Hillside workshop.

"The axe has been hanging above Hillside workshops for some time... there has been speculation they might just close the place. They're not closing the place, they're saying let's give it a go."

Dunedin had a shortage of industrial land, and Hillside's proximity to the Carisbrook rugby ground - also zoned industrial and also on the market - might be an opportunity, Cull said.

"It won't just be a rail workshop. If it's going to be successful it can't just be a rail workshop - there's not enough work for it here under the current circumstances."

Chamber of Commerce chief executive John Christie, who played a leading role in the Save Hillside campaign, said he was not surprised KiwiRail had put the workshops up for sale. He hoped Hillside would remain an important engineering business for Dunedin.

"It would be a tragedy to see the jobs and resources lost there and for that to be turned into something other than a good, economically viable business. I'm optimistic KiwiRail will be looking to get more than just a firesale price for buildings and land."

The future of the south Dunedin landmark - a massive maze of sheds and workshops - has been uncertain for two years.

In 2010, KiwiRail declined to tender on Hillside's behalf for its own $500m contract to build new trains for the Auckland commuter rail system, and later that year also decided to award a contract for 500 flat top wagons overseas rather than utilise Hillside or its sister workshop in Wellington, Woburn.

Dunedin South Labour MP Clare Curran, whose electorate office is directly opposite Hillside, said KiwiRail had deliberately run down the workshops.

"It has refused to allow them to tender for work they should have been tendering for. It has been their long-term strategy to run the workshops down... and what gives them the right to sell it without public discussion? It is a public asset."

Dunedin-based National List MP Michael Woodhouse said the sale of Hillside was potentially a positive development.

"The sale of Hillside is a great opportunity for owners with more commercial engineering experience and a wider customer base. New opportunities exist nationally and internationally for a new owner to grow the business beyond just rail needs.

"This decision is by no mean the demise of Hillside. But the sale and future success of Hillside will largely depend on the reactions of the unions and Dunedin residents and the support they choose to give to potential new owners."

Green Party co-leader Metiria Turei blamed a lack of governmental support of local manufacturers for Kiwirail's decision to sell Hillside.

"The privatisation of Hillside is a direct result of the Government's refusal to implement a smart procurement policy," Dunedin-based Turei said.

"A BERL report showed that having the new Kiwirail rolling stock for Auckland built at Hillside would have added $250m to the economy, reduced the current account deficit by $122m and created 1270 jobs. Unfortunately, National insisted that Kiwirail only consider its narrow commercial interests and ignore the wider impacts of its decision.

"National's neglect led to rolling stock contracts, along with the profits and the jobs, going offshore. That has now led to Hillside's sale."

- © Fairfax NZ News

This is sad and dissapointing news, however I can understand the decision.

But it wasn't business moving elsewhere. It was a slip undermining the line. And that's probably the worst excuse for withdrawing funding. It's like saying Nelson can no longer have an airport because eveything can easily be done via Wellington or Christchurch.

Sad day for Gisborne.

Thats not the point. There just isnt enough business to justify having rail, road, a port, and an airport all for moving a small number of goods from a small town. Nelson doesnt have rail but it does have a decent airport and a small port.

Thats not the point. There just isnt enough business to justify having rail, road, a port, and an airport all for moving a small number of goods from a small town. Nelson doesnt have rail but it does have a decent airport and a small port.

Or if Chch Airport runway got severely in an earthquake, they should close it and people can use West Melton Aerodrome instead.... Dumb

Thats not the point. There just isnt enough business to justify having rail, road, a port, and an airport all for moving a small number of goods from a small town. Nelson doesnt have rail but it does have a decent airport and a small port.

That's like me saying if Tauranga airport burnt to the ground, may as well not rebuild it because it doesn't get many passengers and Tauranga is served by rail and a port.

See, if the Gisborne line is of significamt economic importance to the community, even if it only breaks even, then it should be retained.

That's like me saying if Tauranga airport burnt to the ground, may as well not rebuild it because it doesn't get many passengers and Tauranga is served by rail and a port.

See, if the Gisborne line is of significamt economic importance to the community, even if it only breaks even, then it should be retained.


Nope its completely different because tauranga airport is growing very quickly, and doesnt run at a loss. Where as the gisborne rail line has hardly been used until very recently and is losing over $2m each year.

So are you prepared to pay more tax so that gisborne can have road, rail, airport and seaport terminals all underutilised? Mothball the rail and make sure their road and seaport links are strong.

Nope its completely different because tauranga airport is growing very quickly, and doesnt run at a loss. Where as the gisborne rail line has hardly been used until very recently and is losing over $2m each year.

So are you prepared to pay more tax so that gisborne can have road, rail, airport and seaport terminals all underutilised? Mothball the rail and make sure their road and seaport links are strong.

And then we'll here the same old shit about not putting any investment in because there isn't enough buisness.

Also, the arrival of a Dash 8 at TRG or whatever the code is must be a sign of "progress".

My understanding is the port is only really exporting logs. It might be better to close the port and redevelop it but that would require rail to shift that freight south to Napier. We have far to many small ports scattered around the country and most are owned by local or regional councils who object to any mention of port rationalisation.

My understanding is the port is only really exporting logs. It might be better to close the port and redevelop it but that would require rail to shift that freight south to Napier. We have far to many small ports scattered around the country and most are owned by local or regional councils who object to any mention of port rationalisation.

I believe visits from small container ships have increased at the port of Gisborne since the rail route was taken out, but prior to that it was really just a logging port. Affco exported their product via Tauranga, and delivers from Gisborne were trucked.

KiwiRail slashes number of Overlander train trips
By Hayden Donnell 2:12 PM Tuesday Apr 24, 2012


Kiwirail is slashing the number of trips its Overlander train service takes between Auckland and Wellington.

The Overlander service currently runs daily services during summer and three days a week during winter.

A revamped tourism-focused service will cut the number of weekly trips between the cities from 14 to six, KiwiRail announced today.

The new six-day-a-week service will feature three trips departing from Auckland and three from Wellington, it said.

Passenger services general manager Deborah Hume said the changes were needed to modernise the Overlander service and keep it financially viable.

It would now be targeted at tourists rather than commuters, she said.

"The current Overlander service does not have a big tourist appeal and it's no longer being effectively used as a domestic point-to-point service between Wellington and Auckland. The future for long distance passenger train travel in New Zealand is now about creating an international-standard travel experience rather than simply getting people from one place to another."

Ms Hume said the new service would feature new scenic carriages, a viewing carriage, a new menu, new uniforms and a faster journey time.

It would highlight tourist attractions along the route between the two cities.

The Overlander train service has been running since 1991.

Former operators Toll tried to cut the service in 2006, but backed down in the face of strong public opposition.

KiwiRail slashes number of Overlander train trips
By Hayden Donnell 2:12 PM Tuesday Apr 24, 2012

..."The current Overlander service does not have a big tourist appeal and it's no longer being effectively used as a domestic point-to-point service between Wellington and Auckland. The future for long distance passenger train travel in New Zealand is now about creating an international-standard travel experience rather than simply getting people from one place to another."...


This is where KiwiRail has it all wrong.

Long Distance Rail CAN be more efficient and more competitive if they want it to be.

Bad planning, bad pricing stricture, bad booking systems, bad (lack of) investment and more is what is removing the appeal of long distance rail travel in NZ.

Where are the cheap "early bird" bookings or Grab a Seat deals like Air NZ does?
Where is the innovation like "auctioning fares" like Air NZ does?
What about standby fares?
Where are the optional extras like "full service cabin" including a meal etc?
Where are the frequent services which attract more people (not everyone wants to travel at 8am in the morning)
What about a sleeper cabin for those AKL-WLG overnighters?
Stopping at more stops along the way actually increases the catchment? Why cut the number of stops back?

KiwiRail needs to stop looking for ways to "save a few bucks" to make money and instead they should look at ways to "increase revenue" to make money.

It's not just in passenger rail either... The NPE to GIS line might not necessarily "make money" on it's own, but surely the goods it carries are then transferred to other train services up and down the main lines which decreases the "per train cost" of running the main line?

Good points KaneD

It's always about saving a few bucks (making cuts) to be more "efficient" (so they say) for things nowadays. :shifty:

My understanding is the port is only really exporting logs. It might be better to close the port and redevelop it but that would require rail to shift that freight south to Napier. We have far to many small ports scattered around the country and most are owned by local or regional councils who object to any mention of port rationalisation.

If rail isnt replaced then the Gisborne could truck or maybe use a very small coastal ship to hub to Tauranga or perhaps Napier.

Gisborne has already tried to integrate rail into its airport but that hasnt exactly been a resounding success.

Does this mean Gisborne will lose its wonderful attraction of having the railway crossing the runway and no more potential of an aircraft/train collision?

Why did they try to integrate rail into the aiport?

Does this mean Gisborne will lose its wonderful attraction of having the railway crossing the runway and no more potential of an aircraft/train collision?

Why did they try to integrate rail into the aiport?

Yes... AND... as far as I am aware, Gisborne Airport is the only remaining example of a Civilian Airport with Scheduled flights anywhere in the world to have an scheduled commercial railway crossing it.

There was one previously in Wynyard, Tasmania however I know that has since been removed (runway closed and removed) and Jose Marti International Airport in Cuba (railway closed).

Does anyone know if Gisborne is the last remaining example?

If that's the case, then we should keep it open for the novelty factor alone. That is awesome.

Yes maybe an old steam train journey up from Napier, stop right on the runway and hop into a DC3 or something and fly around the cape and back to Napier.

looks like the end is nigh for this railway. It is detailed on their web site that 10 year traffic forecasts do not give enough volumes to warrant retention and that cost to repair are to much. A final announcement will be made next week I think however it looks like best case scenario is retaining Napier - Wairoa for now with a as required shunting service and mothballing the Wairoa - Gisborne section. I understand that Gisborne steam enthusiasts may lease the Gisborne - Beach Loop section for a local tourist train service..

looks like the end is nigh for this railway. It is detailed on their web site that 10 year traffic forecasts do not give enough volumes to warrant retention and that cost to repair are to much. A final announcement will be made next week I think however it looks like best case scenario is retaining Napier - Wairoa for now with a as required shunting service and mothballing the Wairoa - Gisborne section. I understand that Gisborne steam enthusiasts may lease the Gisborne - Beach Loop section for a local tourist train service..

Better put the record straight for several of you that are reporting it wrong here regaring the alledged lack of freight that was currently building up on the Napier/Gisborne line prior to the weather bomb causing three slips.

Kane you are right and have done your homework, and sounds like you have been to see the region. We are with several groups all up the east coast from Hb and Gisborne, and have a strong working relationship with the six councils in both provinces, that are actively pursing new clients to save the rail service, along with bussiness groups also involved, and were actively placing so much freight on the line that Kiwirail could not handle, due to a lack of Locos, wagons and staff. just prior to the washouts in March, six traions a dey were going south in Hb from Gisborne, and extra freight was gathering at Wairoa also, so we were on the crest of a wave, and solidly proving that the line was once again viable. Since the washouts there has been a miserable wait for all here while Kiwirail mucked around, stalling the whole repair of the track, a small $4 million cost, but just up the coast Government found the same $4 million for a rail trail , so you can get an idea where the govt' is heading!!!
Kiwirail has according to the local bussiness and councils, produced a flawed report and are seeking a copy under the OIA to get an independant report produced with a bussiness case to produce to govt' to prove what I have said is a viable rail service. Incidentally, we invited ther two top kiwirail excecutives to a meeting at Gisborne Council last Novewmber and produced eight large new clients for the Napier Gisborne line, and we have learned that Kiwirail local representative produced a positive report for kiwirail, later based on those clients and other new customers and the report was disregarded by the Kiwirail staff compiling the botched report for government, so you get the idea where we are right?

Maybe John Key wants the rail corridor for his rail trail, so we can cycle down to Napier Port with a box of freight on the back?
That makes about the same amount of sense as the lack of Kiwirail SUPPORT FOR THE CLIENTS NEEDING THEIR FREIGHT ON THE LINE. Just last week the NZ Horticulture Assn' came out in the press stating the rail must be reopened.

Be careful what you wish for, as without rail in this regionm with shoddy roads that are very expensive to maintain we will be cut off from the world, and please do not make the mistake of thinking Coastal freighting is an alternative here, as an expert in coastal shipping has stated that our coastline is to exposed to the elements, and will be prone to major vessel accidents, and we do not have the appetite for more costly Rena type accidents at NZ taxpayer bill of $50 million so far. $4 million to fix our rail is a good invertment donyt you think, and it will make our roads safer without those ugly monster trucks, that are destroying our roads at an alarming rate.

Good comments cleangreen... The problem is that the government (and Kiwirail executives) all seem to be playing the line that it's better to not spend $4m to repair a line that will break even, when they can mothball it, lay off some staff and save $10.

Saving $10 per year means $10 per year more profit than it would be if they spend $4m to keep a non-profitable or break-even line open... yes, the government 'is' that short-sighted they will do anything to save a measly ten bucks.

KiwiRail tracking ahead of budget (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10843048)

KiwiRail, which runs the nation's railway network, is tracking ahead of expectations after the first three months of the financial year, but is still conscious of the need to keep a lid on costs. The state-owned enterprise's group revenue was ahead of budget in the first-quarter on increases in forestry, import/export and domestic freight volumes, chief executive Jim Quinn told a public meeting in Wellington. The rail operator had also reported increases in freight on the interisland ferries, and its passenger services were in line with expectations. "The outlook for this financial year is promising as group revenue is slightly ahead of budget," chairman John Spencer said. "We have to remain focused on cost containment and a better way of operating to ensure we meet our targets and drive as much of the revenue growth as possible to the bottom line." Earlier this month KiwiRail mothballed the Napier-Gisborne line saying the cost of re-opening the track wasn't worth it. The rail operator is on a drive to strip out $200 million in annual spending if it is to meet forecast earnings of $64.6 million by 2013. The railway operator missed its statement of corporate intent revenue target of $737 million, as it posted annual sales of $71.58 million in the latest financial year.

'Strong case' to reinstate rail link - report (http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/8176675/Strong-case-to-reinstate-rail-link-report)

The decision to mothball the Napier-Gisborne railway line was based on flawed analysis, according to a report by Berl economics. KiwiRail decided in October to mothball the line, which had been closed since major storm damage last March. The line carried about 45,000 tonnes a year, but supporters said they had found producers who would put about 180,000 tonnes on the service. The report was commissioned by opponents of the mothballing, the Tairawhiti Environment Centre, and made public this morning. KiwiRail chief executive Jim Quinn dismissed it as a "a brief desk-top assessment of a highly complex business case". In the report, economists question why KiwiRail is predicting revenue of $14-15 per tonne a year between this year and 2022, when last year it was $23.55 per tonne. The difference "calls into question the costing figure and the revenue figures behind the financial analysis in the report", the Berl report said. It said there was a "very strong case" for national and regional governments to take responsibility for restoring the capital that was run down while the line was under private ownership. It also said KiwiRail wanted to make the line commercially viable within 10 years, where an economic view should take account of long-term impact on a region ... MORE (http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/8176675/Strong-case-to-reinstate-rail-link-report)

The Gisborne line has been closed down, because the very influential NZ trucking lobby wanted it closed, plain and simple. So they can have all the freight market in Gisborne/East Cape area to themselves. Its not the first time this has happened in NZ and wont be the last. The first was the Nelson line closure in 1955, its another similar example.

Wait, Nelsen had a railway?

It was an isolated section of railway. The track went from nelson to glenhope, but I think construction progressed further than that minus the rails. It was supposed to connect to the rest of the rail network near ingangahua. There were also later proposals to connect nelson to the rest of the network via blenheim.

The Gisborne line has been closed down, because the very influential NZ trucking lobby wanted it closed, plain and simple. So they can have all the freight market in Gisborne/East Cape area to themselves. Its not the first time this has happened in NZ and wont be the last. The first was the Nelson line closure in 1955, its another similar example.

The Nelson line is probably not a great comparison because it wasn't connected to the rest of the network meaning that it would have always have been less efficient and the relative cost benefit on investing in completing the rail line wouldn't have been warranted since rail was already starting to decline.