^^ I wouldn't be surprised if the design actually becomes flexible and they do something similar to Stade de France or more advanced.

The idea is too keep it in a large capacity for a potential NFL team, but it could be downsized if needed. If it does something similar to Stade de France, it could serve major athletics events when held in Toronto. This could also potentially be designed to allow for additional "ground level" seating for events like the Grey Cup if it's lowered to say 50,000 capacity.

Toronto already has a football team (the oldest pro football team in America); we don't need another one. ;)

^^ Yes, but you need one for an Olympics, which is the issue. You will find a post Olympic use for it, but you do need it.

People should forget about NFL in Toronto. I think the focus should indeed be on building a 80,000 capacity stadium that can later be brought down to 35,000 - 40,000 capacity for the Argos and such. They can keep the track if they want for future track events or have some sort of retractable seating system.

With that said, it seems that the Argos are about to be kicked out of Rogers Centre after this year, as the Blue Jays are contemplating installing grass and make it a permanent baseball only stadium. Argos will need a new home sooner rather than later. There is a small stadium being built at York University for the Pan Am Games. The Argos would have been wise to hitch their ride with that long ago ... although they still have time to do so. Well its either that or have absolutely no where to play.

I do worry that moving out of downtown will mean the team will lose much needed visibility. York University is in the middle of nowhere, but if a new Argonauts stadium will have subway access it's not all bad. When will the subway to York University be finished?

I'd prefer a stadium similar to Winnipeg's be built somewhere in the CNE grounds or the East Bayfront. Perhaps an 80,000 seat Olympic Stadium that can be downsized to 40,000 after the games.

^^ Toronto's subway is about a quarter the size it needs. 30 years of neglect, no political will, and tax revenues poured into highways/roads has left Toronto will the transit nightmare its now facing. We are getting a rail link between Union Station and the airport, but the rest keeps getting debated to death rather than built.
From what I've read, it sounds like the current mayor cancelled all the suburban LRT plans that were being paid for because he'd rather build a new subway line.

Btw, streetcars are light rail.
I heard they're supposed to be getting those fancy Bombardier LRV cars? When are they going in?

LRT was cancelled in favour of more subway, but now it's at a stalemate as city councillors are balking. I believer the streetcars arrive in 2013.

Winnipeg, Manitoba
New home for the Winnipeg Blue Bombers and University of Manitoba Bisons football teams
http://adams.uploads.s3.amazonaws.com/wpg/images/general/2012/02/13285394474407.jpg

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All courtesy of the Winnipeg Blue Bombers football club.

What is the state of the Toronto subway these days?

After Winnipeg, Hamilton, Ottawa, and Regina have their new stadiums, McMahon Stadium will be the second oldest CFL stadium in Canada after Montreal. It's over fifty years old, and it should be replaced soon in my opinion.

As for Toronto, I don't care how unpopular football is in that city, it's embarrassing that they have such a small stadium. Whether or not they get an NFL team, a city of that size needs a stadium with at least 60-70,000 seats.

What for? It's not like the Bluejay games sell out.

There is no demand for such a big stadium.

There is no demand for such a big stadium.

Agree, it would be a white elephant. The only potential tenant is the football team. They need 40,000; Grey Cups could still be played at Skydome.

If such a large 80,000 seater had a roof (retractable of course), then it would be a rival for the Skydome in events like concerts.

If such a large 80,000 seater had a roof (retractable of course), then it would be a rival for the Skydome in events like concerts.

I suppose so, but does Toronto need another concert venue? I'd say no. It's the Argonauts who are desperately in need. The football team hasn't had a proper stadium since 1959 when they played at Varsity Stadium. Skydome is too big and doesn't work for football; its running them into the ground. An 80,000 seater isn't going to solve the problem. Who wants to go to a stadium with 40,000-50,000 empty seats?

Toronto Argonauts @ Varsity Stadium, 1938
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53 years waiting for a football stadium? I think they've been more than patient.

53 years waiting for a football stadium? I think they've been more than patient.

So what do you think is Toronto's problem? Winnipeg and Ottawa are building new stadiums on their own, Hamilton is getting one through the Pan Am games and even Halifax is thinking about a new stadium. Why does there seem to be no interest in a CFL 30-35,000 seat stadium in Toronto? Is it just go big (Rogers Center, potential someday down the road NFL/Olympic Stadium) or go home? I really thought that something would have happened with York University by now.

So what do you think is Toronto's problem? Winnipeg and Ottawa are building new stadiums on their own, Hamilton is getting one through the Pan Am games and even Halifax is thinking about a new stadium. Why does there seem to be no interest in a CFL 30-35,000 seat stadium in Toronto? Is it just go big (Rogers Center, potential someday down the road NFL/Olympic Stadium) or go home? I really thought that something would have happened with York University by now.It's unfortunate, but I think it is too late to get in on the York University PanAm track stadium. I also assume that the York University officials are reluctant to get involved with the Argos again after the last stadium fiasco attempt. The construction of the site is set to commence October 2012 (http://www.excal.on.ca/news/york-to-pay-up-to-20-million-for-pan-am-games-stadium/) and the area will be turned over to the project lead, Infrastructure Ontario. The stadium will be complete by 2014, well before the start of the Pan Am games.

But the well connected David Braley is on the scene now and if it was possible to get something done he would be the man to do it. Publicly the Argos are not making any pronouncements but it seems they are discussing contingency plans behind the scenes (as well they should)

Personally, I don't think the Argos are as dead as many people seem to believe. The Argos drew an avg of 30,000 only a few years ago. Toronto is a an NHL town and the other sports compete for the table scraps. Montreal (CFL) was resurrected at a time, when the team and league were in far, far worse shape than Toronto is now. If it can be done there it can be done in TO, the key is to limit ticket availability like they did in Mtl.

It's only in Toronto where people think they can get an Olympics and or NFL team without proving themselves first. Can anyone say the Pan Ams will be a rousing success with what we know so far? Has the Buffalo Bills experiment been a success? I would say the answer to either question is likely, no.

Here's my solution. If it's too late to get in on the York stadium which would mean a completely new stadium because the York track stadium will only hold 12,500 people with 5,000 permanent and 7500 temporary seats, then what about Lamport (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamport_Stadium).

I don't know the area so those from T.O can correct me. I understand the location is good and the stadium seats about 9600. If the large funds cannot be generated to build a new stadium, what about combining the European and Winnipeg models where the team gets a loan and instead of rebuilding a new stadium build one new stand (ie Ottawa) and in a few years when funds are available work on the other side. There are many examples of this having being done in England for soccer stadiums.

It's said that Braley is committed to making it work at the RC but the time to act is now. TSN has been commissioned to do several historical CFL docs for the Grey Cup 100th anniversary and there's no doubt that the great history of the Argos is going to get some goodwill. Combine that with a highly regarded new young coach and veteran star quarterback and this is the time to be ready with a plan to move forward.

If such a large 80,000 seater had a roof (retractable of course), then it would be a rival for the Skydome in events like concerts.There just isn't a need for anything that large. Some well heeled investors are looking at building a new arena (http://www.faceoff.com/hockey/nhlnews/Second+team+Toronto+would+struggle+report/6132497/story.html) for just that purpose and although they deny it, a second NHL team for the GTA.

Dreams of the NFL and the Olympics just aren't likely to happen. The NFL has to service American markets first and all the talk about international expansion is about London not Toronto.

^^ True, there's too much down side and little upside for the NFL moving into Canada. The established pro football league in Canada would suffer and I'd argue that the NFL would rather have a healthy CFL; it compliments the NFL rather than acting as a rival. Putting a team in Toronto would add little to NFL revenues as the NFL already rakes in lots of money from Canada with no team here. The NFL has a television deal and sells lots of merchandise in Canada. The NFL might go to Mexico or the UK, but it's not coming to Canada.

So what do you think is Toronto's problem? Winnipeg and Ottawa are building new stadiums on their own, Hamilton is getting one through the Pan Am games and even Halifax is thinking about a new stadium. Why does there seem to be no interest in a CFL 30-35,000 seat stadium in Toronto? Is it just go big (Rogers Center, potential someday down the road NFL/Olympic Stadium) or go home? I really thought that something would have happened with York University by now.

There's been little impetus or political will in Toronto to fund a football stadium with so much spent to build Skydome. The Argonauts have had to suck it up while interest declines year after year. There is hope on the horizon though. The Blue Jays announced last week that they intend to install real grass with a drainage system underneath. If this comes to pass, the Argonauts will need a new home as the lower bowl will be permanently fixed in its baseball configuration.

As much as I want a downtown football stadium, York may be the best option. It's easier to marshall tax payer dollars when the benefits are shared with a public institution. The Winnipeg Blue Bombers are building their new stadium at the University of Manitoba for similar reasons. My primary concern is that a move to the outskirts would all but eliminate the teams visibility in the city.

The University of Toronto site has been developed into a 5,000 seat facility with no potential for expansion. Ryerson University and George Brown College don't have football programs and little need for a stadium. GB might be a possibility down the road though as they're expanding their campus on the waterfront east of downtown. That area would be great for a football stadium.

It's unfortunate, but I think it is too late to get in on the York University PanAm track stadium. I also assume that the York University officials are reluctant to get involved with the Argos again after the last stadium fiasco attempt. The construction of the site is set to commence October 2012 (http://www.excal.on.ca/news/york-to-pay-up-to-20-million-for-pan-am-games-stadium/) and the area will be turned over to the project lead, Infrastructure Ontario. The stadium will be complete by 2014, well before the start of the Pan Am games.

But the well connected David Braley is on the scene now and if it was possible to get something done he would be the man to do it. Publicly the Argos are not making any pronouncements but it seems they are discussing contingency plans behind the scenes (as well they should)

Personally, I don't think the Argos are as dead as many people seem to believe. The Argos drew an avg of 30,000 only a few years ago. Toronto is a an NHL town and the other sports compete for the table scraps. Montreal (CFL) was resurrected at a time, when the team and league were in far, far worse shape than Toronto is now. If it can be done there it can be done in TO, the key is to limit ticket availability like they did in Mtl.

It's only in Toronto where people think they can get an Olympics and or NFL team without proving themselves first. Can anyone say the Pan Ams will be a rousing success with what we know so far? Has the Buffalo Bills experiment been a success? I would say the answer to either question is likely, no.

Here's my solution. If it's too late to get in on the York stadium which would mean a completely new stadium because the York track stadium will only hold 12,500 people with 5,000 permanent and 7500 temporary seats, then what about Lamport (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamport_Stadium).

I don't know the area so those from T.O can correct me. I understand the location is good and the stadium seats about 9600. If the large funds cannot be generated to build a new stadium, what about combining the European and Winnipeg models where the team gets a loan and instead of rebuilding a new stadium build one new stand (ie Ottawa) and in a few years when funds are available work on the other side. There are many examples of this having being done in England for soccer stadiums.

It's said that Braley is committed to making it work at the RC but the time to act is now. TSN has been commissioned to do several historical CFL docs for the Grey Cup 100th anniversary and there's no doubt that the great history of the Argos is going to get some goodwill. Combine that with a highly regarded new young coach and veteran star quarterback and this is the time to be ready with a plan to move forward.

Good post. I lived in the west end for a few years, so will comment on the Lamport Stadium idea. Toronto FC, the soccer team, plays just a few blocks south of here so there is precedence for sporting success in this area. Liberty Village is right next door and offers tons of amenities well suited to the sports fan: bars, LCBO, grocery store, fast food, restaurants, etc. The whole area livens up on game day despite BMO Field being on the other side of the train tracks.

The Lamport Stadium site is even better as its literally in Liberty Village with quickly gentrifying Parkdale and hip West Queen West 5 minutes away. There's a King Street West streetcar that runs frequently, but like BMO Field this is an area with no subway service.

The site allows for significant expansion of the current stadium. You could squeeze quite a large stadium on the site if you wanted. The big downfall is the lack of parking. BMO Field offers lots while this site offers none. The vacant land directly to the north is being developed into condominiums so the only solution is underground parking. The possibility of tailgating isn't good at this location.

Good post. I lived in the west end for a few years, so will comment on the Lamport Stadium idea. Toronto FC, the soccer team, plays just a few blocks south of here so there is precedence for sporting success in this area. Liberty Village is right next door and offers tons of amenities well suited to the sports fan: bars, LCBO, grocery store, fast food, restaurants, etc. The whole area livens up on game day despite BMO Field being on the other side of the train tracks.

The Lamport Stadium site is even better as its literally in Liberty Village with quickly gentrifying Parkdale and hip West Queen West 5 minutes away. There's a King Street West streetcar that runs frequently, but like BMO Field this is an area with no subway service.

The site allows for significant expansion of the current stadium. You could squeeze quite a large stadium on the site if you wanted. The big downfall is the lack of parking. BMO Field offers lots while this site offers none. The vacant land directly to the north is being developed into condominiums so the only solution is underground parking. The possibility of tailgating isn't good at this location.

I read on another forum that the CNE grounds are only a 5 minute walk from Lamport and there is tons of parking there. Is that the case?

Good post. I lived in the west end for a few years, so will comment on the Lamport Stadium idea. Toronto FC, the soccer team, plays just a few blocks south of here so there is precedence for sporting success in this area. Liberty Village is right next door and offers tons of amenities well suited to the sports fan: bars, LCBO, grocery store, fast food, restaurants, etc. The whole area livens up on game day despite BMO Field being on the other side of the train tracks.

The Lamport Stadium site is even better as its literally in Liberty Village with quickly gentrifying Parkdale and hip West Queen West 5 minutes away. There's a King Street West streetcar that runs frequently, but like BMO Field this is an area with no subway service.

The site allows for significant expansion of the current stadium. You could squeeze quite a large stadium on the site if you wanted. The big downfall is the lack of parking. BMO Field offers lots while this site offers none. The vacant land directly to the north is being developed into condominiums so the only solution is underground parking. The possibility of tailgating isn't good at this location.

I've also heard that Downsview would be a good location for them despite not being downtown (I think that TFC bought a good amount of the land though and are creating their academy out there). Would that work for the Argos?

^^ Downsview is quite far from downtown, but there's tons of land out there (a decommissioned airport), and great highway access (it sits next to the 401. It would be great for tailgating and suburban fans, but there's nothing in the way of bars, restaurants, or transit. It's a barren, desolate, and bleak part of the city.

I'd much rather try to emulate the success of the Alouettes and have the Argonauts play in a fan friendly downtown stadium. Tailgating is not a big tradition in Ontario, but I think it's key to the long term success of franchises here. The best option is a football specific downtown stadium, maximum 40,000 seats, in an established area with bars, where the possibility of tailgating exists.

I read on another forum that the CNE grounds are only a 5 minute walk from Lamport and there is tons of parking there. Is that the case?

It's more like a 10 minute trek, but there's a huge amount of parking next to BMO Field. I suppose people could tailgate there, then walk to Lamport.

There is no point in planning or spending any more money for CFL stadium projects in Toronto, Ottawa or Montreal.

The evolving demographics of each city have created fairly diverse communities with changing appetites for sport and they can no longer be thought of as responsive or supportive of the CFL the way they were 30 or more years ago.

The presence of Major League Soccer will also create a sufficient erosion on sponsorships and suite sales - hence, the financial well-being of local rival CFL clubs - that it will create a perpetual cycle of losing money. Given that the CFL owners are notoriously short pocketed, it won't be long before they see the writing on the wall and close up shop. Ottawa doesn't yet have a MLS franchise, but many feel it will do well once the franchise is granted and MLS has indicated that they'd add Ottawa in once a suitable stadium is available.

Toronto Argonauts are facing eviction from Toronto's domed stadium and have no realistic option to play elsewhere unless they want to spend their own money to build or upgrade an existing facility. The Lamport Stadium option might be their best bet, but what a blow to their ego having to shlep off to some crude, crumbly, concrete playpen. It will need serious upgrading efforts, but given the football sympathetic nature of the local mayor, it may yet happen via the public purse.

Football may never become central to the culture in Toronto, Ottawa, and Montreal like it is elsewhere, but that's no reason to throw in the towel. It's a wonderful sport and will always find an audience. Should we stop investing in hockey arenas if lots of immigrants prefer soccer?

Ottawa is building a stadium and will be back in the CFL by 2014 while 400,000 people showed up to the Grey Cup victory parade in Montreal 2 years ago. The Toronto Argonauts are the oldest pro football team on the continent and will be hosting the 100th Grey Cup this year.

It's a bit premature to be writing the obituaries.

There is no point in planning or spending any more money for CFL stadium projects in Toronto, Ottawa or Montreal.

The evolving demographics of each city have created fairly diverse communities with changing appetites for sport and they can no longer be thought of as responsive or supportive of the CFL the way they were 30 or more years ago.

The presence of Major League Soccer will also create a sufficient erosion on sponsorships and suite sales - hence, the financial well-being of local rival CFL clubs - that it will create a perpetual cycle of losing money. Given that the CFL owners are notoriously short pocketed, it won't be long before they see the writing on the wall and close up shop. Ottawa doesn't yet have a MLS franchise, but many feel it will do well once the franchise is granted and MLS has indicated that they'd add Ottawa in once a suitable stadium is available.

Toronto Argonauts are facing eviction from Toronto's domed stadium and have no realistic option to play elsewhere unless they want to spend their own money to build or upgrade an existing facility. The Lamport Stadium option might be their best bet, but what a blow to their ego having to shlep off to some crude, crumbly, concrete playpen. It will need serious upgrading efforts, but given the football sympathetic nature of the local mayor, it may yet happen via the public purse.

If anything, Canada should be investing heaps more in CFL. You should be proud of your version of football, promote the sport and give your teams and future teams some decent stadiums!

There is no point in planning or spending any more money for CFL stadium projects in Toronto, Ottawa or Montreal.

The evolving demographics of each city have created fairly diverse communities with changing appetites for sport and they can no longer be thought of as responsive or supportive of the CFL the way they were 30 or more years ago.

The presence of Major League Soccer will also create a sufficient erosion on sponsorships and suite sales - hence, the financial well-being of local rival CFL clubs - that it will create a perpetual cycle of losing money. Given that the CFL owners are notoriously short pocketed, it won't be long before they see the writing on the wall and close up shop. Ottawa doesn't yet have a MLS franchise, but many feel it will do well once the franchise is granted and MLS has indicated that they'd add Ottawa in once a suitable stadium is available.

Toronto Argonauts are facing eviction from Toronto's domed stadium and have no realistic option to play elsewhere unless they want to spend their own money to build or upgrade an existing facility. The Lamport Stadium option might be their best bet, but what a blow to their ego having to shlep off to some crude, crumbly, concrete playpen. It will need serious upgrading efforts, but given the football sympathetic nature of the local mayor, it may yet happen via the public purse.

People have said the writing is on the wall for a good 2 decades, yet it's still around... and actually is at probably the highest point since the "golden age" of the CFL in the 60s and 70s. Furthermore, I would argue that Vancouver is more diverse than either Ottawa and Montreal, Toronto being probably fairly comparable, yet, the BC Lions are supported quite well. It should also be mentioned that the low point of the Lions history (support-wise) is much lower than where the Argos are now, so really, it isn't impossible to come back in a major market (the Alouettes have also shown this).

And if we are so worried about immigration and diversity pulling Canada away from our sports, why isn't hockey a concern? I'm thinking that it's because it isn't cool to bash the NHL (no matter how poor some teams' records have been over the last 5 decades), while it still seems to be in vogue to put down the CFL in some circles. It's sad really that our only professional sports league we have as a country is so poorly treated.

And in any case there is also speculation as to how long the MLS will continue to last in its current model. Outside of a couple large markets, it's not very well supported and television viewership hasn't exactly been stellar, so the next TV deal could be for quite a bit less than the current, which would be troublesome.

And in any case there is also speculation as to how long the MLS will continue to last in its current model. Outside of a couple large markets, it's not very well supported and television viewership hasn't exactly been stellar, so the next TV deal could be for quite a bit less than the current, which would be troublesome.

You have to remember that both the CFL and MLS operate at a different economic structure than the NFL, NBA, NHL and MLB. They will continue to survive and thrive as long as they continue to keep their spending under control. Keep in mind that Peyton Manning at $18 million per year makes more money than the entire payroll of almost six CFL teams. Neither league depends upon TV revenue for their bread and butter so television viewership is not that important. Both leagues make the base of their income at the gate and that is improving for both leagues. MLS does not need to draw 30,000 a game in order to be successful. As long as the MLS stops over paying for European washouts, it and the CFL will both do just fine in the upcoming decades.

The presence of Major League Soccer will also create a sufficient erosion on sponsorships and suite sales - hence, the financial well-being of local rival CFL clubs - that it will create a perpetual cycle of losing money. Given that the CFL owners are notoriously short pocketed, it won't be long before they see the writing on the wall and close up shop. Ottawa doesn't yet have a MLS franchise, but many feel it will do well once the franchise is granted and MLS has indicated that they'd add Ottawa in once a suitable stadium is available.


I don't see where MLS has had any direct effect on CFL teams in Vancouver, Toronto or Montreal. Outside of Toronto both Montreal and B.C. are doing quite well and Toronto's problems have much more to do with previously under-funded ownership than anything to do with MLS. Had the Argos gone through with their stadium plans with York University in 2004, we would not even be having this conversation. As for Ottawa getting an MLS franchise, that ship has passed. The next franchise for MLS will be New York and they are talking franchise fees around $100 million. Ownership groups in Ottawa could not even come up with the $40 million fee last time, much less pay close to $100 million the next time around. MLS is done expanding in Canada. The CFL will thrive and survive just fine regardless of what MLS does.

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All courtesy of the Winnipeg Blue Bomber football club.

[QUOTE=Cjones2451;87379237]I found this website for the new Hamilton "Ivor Wynne" Stadium (although I am sure it will have some corporate name after it is done), but has anyone actually seen any renderings or what it will look like or what the final capacity will be? I have heard as low as 22,500

If that was the capacity they built the Ti-Cats wouldn't be able to use it. CFL requires all franchises to play in a stadium of 25,000 minimum capacity. The only exception is the Touchdown Atlantic game in Moncton where the stadium has 20,000. But yeah, the league wouldn't allow them to play in a stadium with only 22,500 seats.

You have to remember that both the CFL and MLS operate at a different economic structure than the NFL, NBA, NHL and MLB. They will continue to survive and thrive as long as they continue to keep their spending under control. Keep in mind that Peyton Manning at $18 million per year makes more money than the entire payroll of almost six CFL teams. Neither league depends upon TV revenue for their bread and butter so television viewership is not that important. Both leagues make the base of their income at the gate and that is improving for both leagues. MLS does not need to draw 30,000 a game in order to be successful. As long as the MLS stops over paying for European washouts, it and the CFL will both do just fine in the upcoming decades.

The next TV contract with TSN should be a good chunk of change. Ratings for some CFL games rival NHL games now. Even the nationally broadcast ones on CBC. Of course there are way more NHL games so overall the viewership is higher, but still the CFL undersold themselves. TSN rakes in the profits on CFL games considering they have total broadcast rights and paid almost nothing for it.

Some good responses above to the ridiculously outdated and ill informed flashman post. The CFL is doing just fine thank you very much with resurrecting the Toronto market the only major issue. And aside from the stadium issue, which Jays honcho Paul Beeston is saying won't be happening anytime soon, the Argos are doing all the right things.

The CFL TV contract is expected to double. Must be all those immigrants not watching.

isaidso - I guess those new Winnipeg stadium photos are to show flashman the "face of death" for the CFL. :)

To be absolutely current, and to counter flashman's immigrant claims, the latest census has new immigrants trending westward. No longer are new Canadians flocking to their "auld country urban ghettos" (for lack of a better term) in Toronto and Montreal. They are going west, where the opportunity is.

And by the way, football is booming in Quebec where it was once almost dead. There is hope for Toronto.

has anyone actually seen any renderings or what it will look like or what the final capacity will be? I have heard as low as 22,500It will be 22,500 originally but the TiCats could expand later if they wish. There are several posts on the TiCat stadium in this thread with a very early render (http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/573/ivorwynneedit.jpg) (likely no longer accurate). Bids are to be completed by March and no information will be revealed until July.

If that was the capacity they built the Ti-Cats wouldn't be able to use it. CFL requires all franchises to play in a stadium of 25,000 minimum capacity. But yeah, the league wouldn't allow them to play in a stadium with only 22,500 seats.There is no such rule, merely a guideline. Montreal played several years at 20,000.

Here, yet again is the TiCat situation and why 22,500 can and will work (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=84127721&postcount=2151).

Might as well post that very early render for the Hamilton stadium:

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/573/ivorwynneedit.jpg

The next TV contract with TSN should be a good chunk of change. Ratings for some CFL games rival NHL games now. Even the nationally broadcast ones on CBC. Of course there are way more NHL games so overall the viewership is higher, but still the CFL undersold themselves. TSN rakes in the profits on CFL games considering they have total broadcast rights and paid almost nothing for it.

To be fair, the ratings were weak back when TSN signed the current deal. The ratings boost has had a lot to do with TSN's commitment to heavily promote and cover the league. The benefits to the CFL of the TSN deal were much more than just the rights fee.

Might as well post that very early render for the Hamilton stadium:

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/573/ivorwynneedit.jpg

I'm sorry, but that's a joke. That rendering looks worse than most high school football fields in Texas and Florida. I don't understand the small mindedness of the CFL higher ups; perception is everything and if they build this, then the perception will be that the CFL is minor league at best, bush league at worst.

You have the ownership of the Ti-Cats to thank for that. The city of Hamilton was being gifted a brand new stadium for the Pan Am games but their opposition to all the locations being suggested by the government organization killed that plan, so now the plan is basically to renovate the current stadium.

You have the ownership of the Ti-Cats to thank for that. The city of Hamilton was being gifted a brand new stadium for the Pan Am games but their opposition to all the locations being suggested by the government organization killed that plan, so now the plan is basically to renovate the current stadium.

I would say both are to blame. The city was hell bent on one location that didn't work for the Ti-Cats but the locations put forward by the Ti-Cats were shot down (for no good reason IMHO) because the old council were far too stubborn. Basically, the old Ivor Wynne location was a bad compromise for both sides.

You have the ownership of the Ti-Cats to thank for that. The city of Hamilton was being gifted a brand new stadium for the Pan Am games but their opposition to all the locations being suggested by the government organization killed that plan, so now the plan is basically to renovate the current stadium.First, they only have so much money ($150 million), the location wouldn't affect how the stadium proper would look. Second, that render is useless, that was when they still thought they could renovate one of the stands and the project then downsized.

There are three bidders for the project, we have no idea how it will look.

And it's not a renovation, it's a completely new stadium. Everything will be torn down (flattened), realigned 90 degrees and rebuilt.

If you want a bad reference, think of a slightly larger stadium than BMO and with over twice the budget. Another example is Winnipeg which is building a fantastic looking stadium with 10,000 more seats at $190 million ($40 million more).

I think the new Ivor Wynne will look great, a small jewel. Bob Young would like something with a retro look (a la Camden/Wrigley/Fenway) We'll have to wait to see if the bidders can deliver.

I wish people would read that article (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=84127721&postcount=2151) I keep posting about why smaller is better. Bush league is when you have 40,000 seats and 20,000 are empty.

As for the poster who says they have better facilities in Florida and Texas, I don't know about you but I'd rather have my school district putting those millions into education not high school football programs.

I'm sorry, but that's a joke. That rendering looks worse than most high school football fields in Texas and Florida. I don't understand the small mindedness of the CFL higher ups; perception is everything and if they build this, then the perception will be that the CFL is minor league at best, bush league at worst.

The CFL only looks "bush league" when you compare it to the NFL. But then again, every league in the world looks bush league when compared to the NFL, so that is not a real slap at the CFL. Not every league can have billion dollar stadiums built by local taxpayers for the benefit of billionaire owners and multi-millionaire players. If you ask me, the CFL is a much more reasonable and fan friendly league than the NFL. CFL players make a decent living, but not so much that they can no longer relate to their fans. CFL players don't have personal chefs and entourages, but again neither do their fans. I can afford to take my family to a CFL game without having to get a second mortgage on my house. I can sit in seats that offer good views (not in the nosebleeds of a 80,000 seat stadium) and watch some pretty decent football. After the game I can take my kids down for an autograph and meet the players (try that in the NFL). The NFL has become the corporate football league and has gotten so expensive for fans to go to games that most now stay home and watch it on TV. CFL teams still understand that they are part of a community, not part of a multi-billion dollar entertainment industry. If that makes them bush league then that is just fine. You and your "superior" league can just stay south of the border.

^ Couldn't have said it better.

I think I mentioned in a previous post (maybe it wasn't here) a piece of trivia that surprises people. Two years ago the CFL had the sixth highest average attendance of any professional league in the world (it is now seventh at 27,785).

Compare that to Serie A (24,031), MLS (17,872), and Nippon Professional Baseball (25,626)

Bush league indeed!

I don't understand the small mindedness of the CFL higher ups; perception is everything and if they build this, then the perception will be that the CFL is minor league at best, bush league at worst.Not to pile on but I'll have to add to the responses from welkin and elly here and illustrate that if anything the CFL has proven to be pretty shrewd business managers in light of their circumstances. Much like MLS they're making the most of their limited resources and not trying to grasp beyond their reach. May mean they're not first up the mountain, but they're still on the face and climbing.

that if anything the CFL has proven to be pretty shrewd business managers in light of their circumstances. Much like MLS they're making the most of their limited resources and not trying to grasp beyond their reach.

Eskimos budget looking up (http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Football/CFL/Edmonton/2012/02/22/19408626.html)
TERRY JONES, QMI Agency

EDMONTON - It was almost embarrassing to hear the new Edmonton Eskimos’ president and CEO Len Rhodes make his statements at the annual general meeting of the team Tuesday.

But if you listened hard …

If you pushed for actual content …

Well, in there somewhere was reason to believe maybe the Eskimos might have come to an end of being the cheap, won’t-spend-a-dime-to-make-a-dollar mom-and-pop business they’d become since the Norm Kimball era.

But in his first address to those assembled at he AGM, Rhodes sounded like a fast-talking all-hat, no-cattle flim-flam man.

“Our vision is to deliver an overall sports and entertainment experience worthy of champions. Our mission is to challenge and lead through performance, innovation and creativity. We will create an environment that fosters strong employee engagement through a set of corporate values and include integrity, optimism, accessibility, authenticity, passion and professionalism … yadda, yadda, yadda.”

If you hadn’t dialed out by that point, you would have heard him make the statement.

“We will have the best game-day experience in Canada, North America and the world.”

Say what? This from a guy who has yet to attend an Eskimo game in Commonwealth Stadium in person?

In the entire history of the CFL, I’m not sure if anyone has ever come close to over-promising to that extent.

It wasn’t until cross-examination one was able to discover there was some actual content behind all that bull spit.

When we last left the Eskimos they had one sales employee. Greg Treble, after cross examination, we discover, suddenly has a sales and sponsorship staff with three department heads, three people in group sales, another in season tickets and another in inside sales.

That’s going from one to nine people.

“I believe you have to make an investment to get a return, not just wait for renewals to come in,” he said.

Bingo! Now you’re talkin’.

Rhodes also revealed in a private interview that he’d convinced the board to free up a quarter million dollars to spend on event experience and environment.

“Football isn’t like hockey. You can create 10 events. That’s hard to do with 41. In football you can turn each game into a happening. With $25,000 a game we can provide a lot of extra entertainment,” said Rhodes, who promises half-time shows significantly beyond the sad and sorry productions of the past.

One other thing: he talked about giving the stadium back to the fans. Interview him after the fancy talk and you find out there are actual specifics.

The wire mesh fence between the fans and the field that made Edmonton look like a third world soccer outfit, will be coming down. The Jackie Parker room and Quarterback Club will no longer be exclusive but will be open to all fans, with buffets under $20. The Green & Gold club will return. The ban on peanuts may even be lifted.

Why he didn’t come out and specify all that at the AGM, I don’t know. But now you know.

You should also know the Eskimos have returned to having a Canadian scout like they had when Frank Morris judged talent in the five-in-a-row era and half the new stadium seats will be installed during the season and the other half before the start of the following season.

The best news is that Rhodes is looking at 30,000 fans as a stadium being half empty instead of half full.

The problem with the Eskimos as a business is that it has long been successful in terms of the rest of the league, without really trying.

And Tuesday’s AGM was certainly an example of that.

The financial statement of the community-owned club showed revenue of $17,457,433, up about $1.8 million on the previous year. Expenses were $16,929,627 which, after other items, left the team with a net profit of $473,471 for the season.

Board chairman Allan Sawin said the profit basically came from having the first home playoff game since 2004.

Bottom line? The Eskimos have $9,071,679 in their Heritage Trust Fund.

It’s about time they stopped being cheap and returned to Norm Kimball’s idea of leading the league in every single little area.

Lol well in Mississauga... If your not one of the 200 people sitting on the stands than your standing while watching that high school football game...

I thought high school football was only a big deal in the Maritimes? :weird:

Lol i've never heard that but really the spirit is born from the rivalry between mine and another close school... So i'm not too sure about other schools in Mississauga

From BallparkDigest:

It's official: Eastern League to Ottawa in 2013

The reports were true: Conditional upon various baseball approvals, we should see the move of a Class AA Eastern League team to Ottawa Stadium for the 2013 season.

Boston-based Beacon Sports has been negotiating a 10-year lease for Ottawa Stadium, the former home of the Ottawa Lynx (Class AAA; International League). The ballpark would be renovated, with capacity going down to $8 million or so; the city will pay $5.7 million for improvements, while Beacon Sports will pay $3 million for a new scoreboard and improvements in player-development facilities (clubhouses, etc.). Including lease payments, Beacon Sports is committing $5.5 million during the 10-year lease.

Here's the full press release from the city of Ottawa:

The City of Ottawa has reached an agreement in principle with a private sector proponent for the Ottawa Stadium that will be recommended to the City’s Finance and Economic Development Committee in a report to be issued later today.

On November 9, 2011, staff presented a report to City Council outlining the process to issue a Request for Offers (RFO) to lease the Ottawa Stadium for long-term baseball use. With Council’s approval, an RFO was issued on November 15, 2011 and closed on December 12, 2011.

The City’s desired outcome for this “best offers to lease” process was to secure a long-term tenant for the baseball field with a valid business plan involving a professional or semi-professional baseball franchise, subsequently minimizing the City’s financial resources directed to the stadium facility. A Fairness Commissioner was retained to ensure the openness, transparency, impartiality and objectivity of the process.

Staff today tabled a report with the results of the RFO process, which recommends that the City negotiate a long-term lease for the use of the stadium with Beacon Sports Capital Partners as the authorized representative for a stipulated professional baseball franchise that is a member of the AA Eastern League of Minor League Baseball. This could potentially mean the return of AA baseball to Ottawa as early as the spring of 2013.

“This is an important milestone towards bringing professional baseball back to the City of Ottawa for the enjoyment of all residents,” said Mayor Jim Watson. “Returning pro ball to Ottawa, will allow the City to preserve this important purpose-built facility, maximize the use of an existing City asset and provide an additional recreation venue for our residents. It also permits us to minimize the City’s financial resources being directed to the facility over the long-term.”

In the proposed deal, Beacon Sports proposes a 10-year lease term with two five-year extension options for an AA member club of the Eastern League Minor League Baseball to play at the Ottawa Stadium The governance rules of the Eastern League preclude the acknowledgment of a specific franchise and potential Major League affiliation until approvals for the relocation and designation have been sought and secured.

Beacon Sports is proposing to invest approximately $2,000,000 into the facility for player development improvements and would also lease a new scoreboard that is estimated to cost an additional $1,000,000. In addition, both Beacon and the City would invest equally towards a lifecycle reserve fund.

Prior to the spring of 2013, the City would need to invest approximately $2,700,000 for various deferred lifecycle improvements to the stadium as well as $3,000,000 for various improvements to meet Minor League Baseball standards.

The City has secured an increase in base rent from $108,000 to $257,000 per annum for the initial 10-year term and for the first five-year extension option. This level of rent represents a 240-per-cent annual increase and will contribute significantly towards recovering various start-up costs in order to prepare the stadium for the spring of 2013.

In total, the City will invest $5.7 in capital cost and Beacon Sports will invest $5,500,000 so that baseball can begin at the Stadium in 2013.

Mayor Watson also wishes to commend Councillors Peter Clark, the ward councillor for the facility, as well as Councillors Rick Chiarelli and Bob Monette, for their hard work over the past six months in helping to move this development forward.

“This has been a real team effort involving my Council colleagues,” said Mayor Watson. “The City remains cautiously optimistic that we will be able to secure a major league affiliation – the final major hurdle in bringing baseball back to the City.”

“This is an important facility for the residents of Rideau-Rockcliffe and for residents across the City,” said Councillor Peter Clark.” If there is a cost-effective way to preserve the Ottawa Stadium for its original purpose, then of course I will be supporting the staff report.”

“I am pleased to see that City staff is recommending that the City move to finalize an agreement for the long-term use of the baseball stadium,” said Orleans Ward Councillor Bob Monette. “I have always argued that this exceptional City asset should not be demolished and that the City should do what it can, within a responsible fiscal framework, to bring pro baseball back to the Nation’s Capital. I will continue to work with the Mayor and my Council colleagues on the important next steps that remain to make this project a reality.”

College Ward Councillor Rick Chiarelli, a long-time proponent of baseball in Ottawa, is also delighted to hear that staff will be recommending a long-term lease to Council. “I will continue to be involved in these efforts and also will be voting to maintain the stadium’s original purpose,” he said. “This agreement is more desirable than mothballing this valuable public facility. I am convinced that a new team, under solid management, could market pro baseball as an exciting form of family entertainment for the residents of Ottawa. I also support the decision to protect an important asset in which the people of Ottawa have invested $17 million to build and will continue to have to invest in lifecycle to maintain the stadium over the lifetime of the facility.”

The report will be considered by the Finance and Economic Development Committee on February 16, 2012, and by City Council on February 22, 2012.

From the NASL website:

http://cerebra.ca/commercial/ADMINII/users/5222/image/feature/NASL_Ottawa_Header.png

The North American Soccer League (NASL) today announced that Ottawa, Ontario has been awarded an expansion franchise. The new team will be owned by the Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group (OSEG) and play home games at Lansdowne Park. The franchise will commence League play upon the completion of a major stadium reconstruction project which is expected to commence later this year. The North American Soccer League is a Division II men’s outdoor professional soccer league with teams based in the United States, Canada and Puerto Rico.

“We welcome Ottawa to the NASL,” said League Commissioner David Downs. “As we continue to expand and collectively grow professional soccer in the United States, Canada and the Caribbean, Ottawa is a natural market with a vibrant business community, large soccer fan base and an exceptional ownership group.”

OSEG partner John Pugh, who is also the CEO and Owner of the Ottawa Fury Soccer Club, has been named President of the new NASL franchise. Pugh says he’s committed to building a successful team on and off the field: "This will be, by far, the highest calibre of soccer we’ll have seen in Ottawa since the 2007 FIFA Men’s U-20 World Cup,” said Pugh. “We are committed to fielding a competitive team from the get-go, providing a lively, entertaining game day experience for families and establishing strong ties with all soccer players and fans across the region. It’s a privilege to have this opportunity.”

Ottawa’s new 24,000 seat soccer-friendly downtown stadium will be built to exact FIFA specifications. The City of Ottawa and OSEG are partners in the project and Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson says it’s an exciting time for the entire city: “Residents are excited about NASL soccer, our bid for the 2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup, CFL football and other events that will take place in Ottawa thanks to a newly redeveloped Lansdowne Park," said Mayor Watson. "With 65,000 registered players in our region playing the world's game, it’s high time Ottawa had a professional soccer team and a world-class stadium.”

OSEG is offering Ottawa soccer fans an opportunity to reserve the right to purchase season tickets for their NASL team before they become available to the public at large. A limited number of priority reservation numbers (PRNs) are now available for a fully-refundable $25 deposit or free for current season ticket holders for the Ottawa Fury and Ottawa 67’s and PRN holders for Ottawa’s new CFL football franchise Details for this program are available at www.ottawafury.com or www.ottawa67s.com.

No more baseball at TELUS Field this summer... From BallparkDigest:

Edmonton out of North American League

The Edmonton Capitals have pulled out of the independent North American League, saying only three other Northern Division teams are committed to the circuit for 2012.

The team's presence in the league was seen as iffy by insiders after it became apparent travel mate Calgary Vipers were not going to field a team this season.

From a statement issued by the team:

"With just four teams registered for the 2012 season in the Northern Division of the NAL, down from ten teams in 2009, it is no longer acceptable for the Capitals to continue operations under such circumstances. In addition to the Capitals, the other four squads are based in Yuma, Arizona, San Rafael (San Francisco), California, and Maui, Hawaii."

The team drew 125,000 customers last season at Telus Field. The Capitals are owned by Rexall Sports and Entertainment, which also owns the NHL's Edmonton Oilers.

With only three teams, the future of the NAL's Northern Division is in serious doubt. However, the league's other division -- six Texas teams playing in five venues -- has already released a schedule that calls for no inter-division play.

Some pics of TELUS Field:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7163/6761933453_ef17008c6c_b.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7156/6761940791_ae91b7076b_b.jpg
Images courtesy of DGenio (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgenio/)

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2325/2346506120_614bf6d795_b.jpg
Image courtesy of Edmonton Economic Development Corporation's (http://www.flickr.com/photos/edmontonliveallyear/)

No more baseball at TELUS Field this summer... From BallparkDigest:



Some pics of TELUS Field:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7163/6761933453_ef17008c6c_b.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7156/6761940791_ae91b7076b_b.jpg
Images courtesy of DGenio (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgenio/)

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2325/2346506120_614bf6d795_b.jpg
Image courtesy of Edmonton Economic Development Corporation's (http://www.flickr.com/photos/edmontonliveallyear/)

That's a shame. I have enjoyed many a game in that ballpark. I am glad to see that Ottawa is getting a minor league team. It is getting harder and harder to catch a minor league game here in Canada.

No more baseball at TELUS Field this summer... From BallparkDigest:



Some pics of TELUS Field:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7163/6761933453_ef17008c6c_b.jpg
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7156/6761940791_ae91b7076b_b.jpg
Images courtesy of DGenio (http://www.flickr.com/photos/dgenio/)

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2325/2346506120_614bf6d795_b.jpg
Image courtesy of Edmonton Economic Development Corporation's (http://www.flickr.com/photos/edmontonliveallyear/)

FC Edmonton (http://the11.ca/2012/02/22/fc-edmonton-will-delay-stadium-announcement/) of the NASL (Division 2 soccer) are trying to see if they can use that field for this season while they try to get a new soccer specific stadium built for the 2015 Women's World Cup.

Lol i've never heard that but really the spirit is born from the rivalry between mine and another close school... So i'm not too sure about other schools in Mississauga

Some Moncton, NB high school games draw 2000-4000 fans. Everyone goes and they make a whole day out of it. ;)

It is getting harder and harder to catch a minor league game here in Canada.

Tell me about it. What's left?

Tell me about it. What's left?

I only know of four teams. Vancouver Canadians-Northwest League, Quebec Capitales-Can-Am League, London Rippers (love the name)- Frontier League and Winnipeg Goldeyes- American Association of Independent Baseball. It is nowhere near what it used to be. I'll be looking forward to games when I am up in Ottawa.

I only know of four teams. Vancouver Canadians-Northwest League, Quebec Capitales-Can-Am League, London Rippers (love the name)- Frontier League and Winnipeg Goldeyes- American Association of Independent Baseball. It is nowhere near what it used to be. I'll be looking forward to games when I am up in Ottawa.

4 (soon to be 5) teams is just awful. We should be at the stage where we're moving into cities like Kelowna and Saint John, but we don't even have the big cities with baseball. Montreal, Halifax, Calgary, Victoria, Hamilton, Kitchener, etc.

FC Edmonton (http://the11.ca/2012/02/22/fc-edmonton-will-delay-stadium-announcement/) of the NASL (Division 2 soccer) are trying to see if they can use that field for this season while they try to get a new soccer specific stadium built for the 2015 Women's World Cup.

I really hope they get to play at this great park... I'd hate for it to sit dormant like Ottawa Baseball Stadium has for so many years. I am appalled that the Blue Jays Triple-A affiliate is playing in a crappy ballpark (Cashman Field) 2,300 miles from Toronto, in a town that doesn't support it's sports teams (Las Vegas), when a great ballpark like this sits in Pacific Coast League territory and has an ownership group (Rexall Sports and Entertainment) that is willing to put in the effort to make baseball in Edmonton work.

I really hope they get to play at this great park... I'd hate for it to sit dormant like Ottawa Baseball Stadium has for so many years. I am appalled that the Blue Jays Triple-A affiliate is playing in a crappy ballpark (Cashman Field) 2,300 miles from Toronto, in a town that doesn't support it's sports teams (Las Vegas), when a great ballpark like this sits in Pacific Coast League territory and has an ownership group (Rexall Sports and Entertainment) that is willing to put in the effort to make baseball in Edmonton work.

Paul Beeston said on the radio that they want to have their affiliates close by in Canada both for the convenience of proximity and for the branding of the Jays organization to appeal to more of Canada. I believe he said the Vegas deal is up at the end of the season.

Some news out of Regina while the new stadium is being planned:

$14 Million in upgrades coming to Mosaic Stadium

The Saskatchewan Roughriders have unveiled plans today for a $14 million Grey Cup Legacy to enhance game day experience.

Phase one will add around 7,000 new temporary seats as well as corporate boxes to the north and south endzone.

The Maxtron will be replaced with a new 60 foot wide digital screen and scoreboard in the northeast endzone.

“This is a very ambitious and much needed plan for Mosaic stadium over the next few years,” stated Riders chairman of the board Roger Brandvold. “Replacing Mosaic stadium still remains our top priority, but certain upgrades needed to be made to get us through the next few years and especially the 2013 grey cup.”

Phase two of the project will add another level of bleacher seats, and bring the stadiums capacity to almost 50, 000 in preparation for the Grey Cup game.

‘While each phase of this plan is a temporary solution, its legacy will make an impact throughout Saskatchewan for decades to come.” Stated Riders president/CEO Jim Hopson. “When the new stadium is ready and the stands are no longer needed, each section can be dismantled and donated to amateur sports programs across our province.”

“The government of Saskatchewan is proud to provide a $6.2 million, low interest loan to the Saskatchewan Roughriders for the legacy upgrades,” said Minister of Tourism, Parks, Culture and sport Bill Hutchinson. “We want to make sure every fan, every visitor and every resident has the best experience possible when they visit Regina.”

Phase one construction will start in 2012.

http://www.globalregina.com/14+million+in+upgrades+coming+to+mosaic+stadium/6442588075/story.html

There is also a video that explains the project more fully on the Global News page, so click the link if you want to see it.

Paul Beeston said on the radio that they want to have their affiliates close by in Canada both for the convenience of proximity and for the branding of the Jays organization to appeal to more of Canada. I believe he said the Vegas deal is up at the end of the season.

Does this mean the return of Triple-A baseball to Edmonton since Ottawa is off the board?

Does this mean the return of Triple-A baseball to Edmonton since Ottawa is off the board?

Last I heard, the Blue Jays are hoping to put a team in Montreal.

Riders plan $14M upgrade to stadium (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/story/2012/02/24/sk-mosaic-stadium-roughriders-120224.html)
CBC News Feb 24, 2012

http://i44.tinypic.com/kdqx6t.jpg

The Saskatchewan Roughriders plan to add seats in several parts of Mosaic Stadium, in several stages leading up to the Grey Cup game of 2013. (Image supplied by the Saskatchewan Roughriders)

While maintaining a new football stadium remains a top priority, the Saskatchewan Roughriders are planning $14 million in fixes and upgrades, including a new seating area, for the existing Mosaic Stadium in Regina.

The new seats, some temporary and some permanent, will be installed in time for the 2013 Grey Cup game, which will be hosted by the club.

About 50,000 seats will be in place for the game. After that, the ongoing capacity of the stadium will be around 33,000, about 3,000 more than it currently holds for a sell-out game.

The club will also upgrade the video scoreboard.

"The $14 million plan will enhance the game-day experience," the club said in a news release issued Friday.

"Replacing Mosaic Stadium still remains our top priority, but certain upgrades needed to be made to get us through the next few years and especially the 2013 Grey Cup," Roger Brandvold, chair of the club, said.

The changes will be done in stages and will begin with the addition of about 7,000 temporary seats -- and some corporate boxes, to the north and south end zone areas. They will include concessions and washroom facilities.

The team said the temporary elements will be donated to amateur sports, if the team moves into a new facility.

"When the new stadium is ready, and the stands are no longer needed, each section can be dismantled and donated to amateur sports programs across our province; allowing friends and family to watch their little, future all-star in comfort," Rider president Jim Hopson promised.

Part of the project is being supported by a low-interest loan from the provincial government.

Riders announce stadium upgrades (http://blogs.leaderpost.com/2012/02/24/riders-announce-stadium-upgrades/)
Leader-Post February 24, 2012

Here’s the official release:

RIDERS UNVEIL “GREY CUP LEGACY PROJECT”

The Saskatchewan Roughriders unveiled plans today for the Grey Cup Legacy Project. The $14 million plan will enhance the game-day experience, add thousands of temporary seats, create new revenue opportunities, and leave a legacy for amateur sport programs across the province.

“This is a very ambitious and much needed plan for Mosaic Stadium over the next few years,” stated Riders Chairman Roger Brandvold. “Replacing Mosaic Stadium still remains our top priority, but certain upgrades needed to be made to get us through the next few years and especially the 2013 Grey Cup. I’d like to thank our partners at the Government of Saskatchewan and City of Regina for their support in this undertaking.”

Phase one will add approximately 7,000 temporary seats, as well as corporate boxes, to the north and south end zones; complete with their own concessions and washroom facilities – and creating a bowl-like atmosphere for fans.

The SaskTel Maxtron will be replaced by a new, 60-foot wide, fully digital LED screen and scoreboard in the Northeast endzone; accompanied by a vertical, digital billboard for use exclusively by our sponsors.

This state-of-the-art, new SaskTel Maxtron will be visible from most points in the stadium. But for those in the east stands and north endzone a 55 foot wide digital LED display and scoreboard attached to the West grandstand.

Additional LED ribbons will also be placed at field level on the East side and along the grandstand fascia of the west side, adding more areas to display statistics and player profiles.

Phase two of the Grey Cup Legacy Project will add another level of bleacher seats, and bring the stadium’s capacity to almost 50,000 in preparation for the Grey Cup game.

After Grey Cup, only the second tier of temporary seats will be removed, maintaining the bowl-like atmosphere for up to 33,000 Rider fans.

“While each phase of this plan is a temporary solution, its legacy will make an impact throughout Saskatchewan for decades to come,” stated Riders President/CEO Jim Hopson. “When the new stadium is ready, and the stands are no longer needed, each section can be dismantled and donated to amateur sports programs across our province; allowing friends and family to watch their little, future all-star in comfort.”

“The Government of Saskatchewan is proud to provide a $6.2 million, low interest loan to the Saskatchewan Roughriders for the legacy upgrades”, said Minister of Tourism, Parks, Culture and Sport Bill Hutchinson. “We want to make sure that every fan, every resident and every visitor has the best experience possible when they visit Regina. We are also pleased that communities from Saskatchewan will benefit from the program by receiving the seating afterwards to help grow local sport and recreation – this truly is part of the Saskatchewan advantage.”

“The City of Regina’s priority is the Regina Revitalization Initiative, which includes replacing Mosaic Stadium and redeveloping the current stadium site into a new neighbourhood with housing and commercial opportunities,” Regina City Manager Glen Davies said. “The City wholeheartedly supports this innovative project that will improve the fan experience during the final years of Mosaic Stadium, and in the long-term benefit the whole community at limited cost to Regina taxpayers.”

Mosaic stadium is owned and operated by the City of Regina. The Regina Revitalization Initiative includes plans to re-develop large areas of land in the heart of Regina with housing, commercial and retail opportunities and replace Mosaic Stadium with a state of the art facility. Construction of the new stadium is scheduled to begin in 2013, with completion in 2016.

Roughriders, provincial government team up on stadium facelift (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/football/roughriders-provincial-government-team-up-on-stadium-facelift/article2349195/)
REGINA - The Canadian Press Feb. 24, 2012

The Saskatchewan Roughriders and the province are teaming up to give Mosaic Stadium a facelift in time for the 2013 Grey Cup.

The CFL team will spend $14-million to improve the facility as part of a Grey Cup legacy project the Riders unveiled Friday. The provincial government will also provide a $6.2-million loan.

The plan is to turn the stadium into a bowl and boost its seating capacity to 33,000. An 18 metre-high LED screen will be also be added.

Club chairman Roger Brandvold says while the goal remains to build a new stadium, the improvements to Mosaic were needed with Regina hosting the 2013 Grey Cup.

“This is a very ambitious and much needed plan for Mosaic Stadium over the next few years,” Brandvold said Friday in a statement. “Replacing Mosaic Stadium still remains our top priority, but certain upgrades needed to be made to get us through the next few years and especially the 2013 Grey Cup.”

The project's first phase will see the addition of 7,000 temporary seats as well as corporate boxes to the north and south end zones. The first phase will also include new concession and washroom facilities to create a bowl-like atmosphere and boost the seating capacity to 33,000.

The second phase will add another level of bleachers to increase overall capacity to almost 50,000 for the Grey Cup game.

Following the Grey Cup, only the second tier of temporary seats will be removed to maintain the bowl-like configuration for up to 33,000 fans.

“While each phase of this plan is a temporary solution, its legacy will make an impact throughout Saskatchewan for decades to come,” said team president Jim Hopson. “When the new stadium is ready, and the stands are no longer needed, each section can be dismantled and donated to amateur sports programs across our province.”

Construction of a new stadium is scheduled to begin in 2013 with completion expected in 2016.

Mosaic stadium is owned and operated by the city of Regina.

PHOTOS: Sask. Roughriders announce Grey Cup Legacy Project

Will spend $14M on enhancing Mosaic Stadium and province to loan $6.2M. (http://cjme.com/story/sask-roughriders-announce-grey-cup-legacy-project/45295)
Samantha Maciag Feb 24, 2012

The Riders have announced they're spending $14 million to enhance Mosaic Stadium.

It's part of a Grey Cup legacy project and they're not doing it alone. The province has also provided a $6.2 million loan.

The Riders want to turn the stadium into a bowl. They're adding a new 60-foot LED screen and moving the scoreboard to the northeast corner next to Section 23.

They're also adding seats -- capacity will be increased to nearly 50,000 prior to Grey Cup with a second level of bleacher seats. After the big game, the second tier will be removed but the bowl-like atmosphere will stay and capacity will be 33,000.

Chairman Roger Brandvold insists their goal is still to build a new stadium, but says improvements are needed for the 2013 Grey Cup and to keep pace with the league. Construction on the new stadium is to start in 2013 and finish in 2016.

No substitute for new stadium

To many, the Mosaic upgrades would seem to dash dreams of a new stadium.

Mayor Pat Fiacco says it couldn't be further from the truth.

"The City of Regina will not be investing dollars into Mosaic Stadium. That's not what we're doing, our money is going to be invested in a new facility," he said.

"This is a temporary fix for a very important event that's going to happen in Regina, and that is the Grey Cup."

Mosaic Stadium getting $14 million upgrade (http://www.leaderpost.com/sports/baseball/Mosaic+Stadium+getting+million+upgrade/6204839/story.html)
Ian Hamilton, Leader-Post February 24, 2012

REGINA — The Saskatchewan Roughriders have decided to dress up their aging home - but they still plan to move.

"Our focus and drive has not changed for a new stadium," Roger Brandvold, the chairman of the Roughriders' board, said Friday during a media conference announcing the Grey Cup Legacy Project — a $14-million plan to upgrade Mosaic Stadium.

"You certainly heard the message from His Worship, Mayor Pat Fiacco, and city council's commitment to the new stadium. Trust me: We will not give up on this goal."

"Overall, we feel very good about this (new) project from a business point of view, what it offers to our fans over the next four years and our partners," added Roughriders president-CEO Jim Hopson. "But we must stress that this is not a permanent solution. It is a temporary solution and our ultimate goal still is to move into a new stadium in 2016."

The "temporary solution" is a two-pronged project to renovate Mosaic Stadium, not only for the CFL seasons before the club moves but also for the 2013 Grey Cup.

That season, Regina is to play host to the CFL's championship game for the third time; the trophy also was presented on Taylor Field in 1995 and 2003.

Having seen recent Grey Cups staged in upgraded facilities in Edmonton and Vancouver, the Roughriders decided to revamp Mosaic Stadium. As Brandvold said Friday: "The Grey Cup will be one of the biggest single events in the history of this province and requires appropriate facilities to provide a quality experience."

As a result, the Roughriders came up with the Legacy Project.

The provincial government has loaned the Roughriders $6.2 million, while the club will cover the remainder of the cost through its capital account. Hopson said the club believes the renovation ultimately will create revenue, so the Roughriders view the project as an investment as opposed to an expenditure.

The first phase involves the construction in the end zones of approximately 7,000 individual seats — 3,000 in the north end zone and 4,000 in the south — along with 27 corporate suites, creating a bowl. The new sections are to feature enclosed concourses as well as their own concession and washroom facilities.

The current Maxtron is to be replaced by a 60-foot-wide digital LED screen and scoreboard in the northeast end of the stadium as well as a 55-foot-wide digital LED scoreboard attached to the west grandstand.

As well, LED "ribbons" are to be mounted at field level on the east stands and along the west grandstand.

Hopson noted construction crews already are on site, as the team hopes to have the new pieces in place for the 2012 season.

The second phase of the project includes the erection of another level of temporary seats that would bring Mosaic Stadium's seating capacity for the Grey Cup to approximately 50,000.

Bill Hutchinson, Saskatchewan's minister of tourism, parks, culture and sport, said the cost to provincial taxpayers will be minimal because the government is making a loan to the Roughriders that will be paid back, with interest.

The province has been involved in the process of looking into a new entertainment facility in Regina — a building in which the Roughriders would play — but Hutchinson said there wasn't any disappointment that the government was helping with the Legacy Project instead of funding a new facility.

"This is a different kind of a project," he said. "We need to get ready for Grey Cup '13. We have a stadium in need of some improvements in order to host that game properly and to give fans the experience that they are looking for and deserve. That's what this project is going to do.

"The other half of the project that's very exciting from our perspective is, it is indeed a legacy project. A significant portion of the seating will be dismantled after Grey Cup and distributed to communities around the province to enable them to attract more fans to their local games."

The second level of seats is to be donated to interested amateur sports programs around Saskatchewan following the Grey Cup — hence the "legacy" aspect.

Fiacco feted the Roughriders for that part of the project, as well as for making Mosaic Stadium more hospitable for Grey Cup patrons.

He noted that while the city will continue to invest in Mosaic Stadium as its owner — in terms of maintenance and operations — it remains committed to a new building.

"Make no mistake: Construction starts in 2013, (there will be) a brand-new facility in 2016 and in the meantime, this is a bit of a teaser what the fans are going to be able to experience with a new facility," Fiacco said. "This is temporary and I don't think anybody wants a permanent temporary facility."

http://i42.tinypic.com/2upwb2a.jpg
Mosaic Stadium, Regina, Saskatchewan $14 million upgrade

http://i40.tinypic.com/72x1yp.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/vs0rhi.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/6dtsah.jpg

At some point that stadium is going to have a higher capacity than Regina does population.

Woah there elly.. did you post every news article you could find on the project? :P

And Scba, I doubt we'll be getting a new 220,000 (and increasing) seat stadium... that would definitely be intense though. Put the May Day Stadium in Pyongyang to shame. :lol:

Last I heard, the Blue Jays are hoping to put a team in Montreal.

Speaking of Montreal, someone posted some interesting architectural renderings for a 6,000-seat ballpark over at Baseball Fever (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?106072-New-Montreal-Ballpark&highlight=montreal)... I love how the facade is to look like Delorimier Downs. If anyone speaks French, I'd like to know what the rest of the captions says:

http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102435&stc=1&d=1321659470
http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102436&stc=1&d=1321659500
http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102437&stc=1&d=1321659517
http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=102438&stc=1&d=1321659544

Woah there elly.. did you post every news article you could find on the project? Well, if I thought people would read them instead of asking questions that are already answered in them, I would.

Nice Upgrade, I do like this:

http://i42.tinypic.com/2upwb2a.jpg
Mosaic Stadium, Regina, Saskatchewan $14 million upgrade

But this is not that good:
http://i39.tinypic.com/6dtsah.jpg

^^How else would you propose adding the extra 20k seats necessary to host the Grey Cup? I'd say what they've done is the best option available. I like that there is angling in the corners; better than a straight across end zone set of stands that doesn't point the spectators to the field in the corners.

Just noticed this thread on the Stockholmsarenan (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1246057) in Sweden. Despite early allusions to the FargoDome in North Dakota, the Stockholmsarenan was to be the model for the new Regina stadium.

I'm a little fearful that some of the momentum is being lost on the Regina stadium project. The Riders aren't as successful on the field as they were a few years ago and project booster Mayor Pat Fiacco is stepping down.

However, Fiacco's preferred successor Michael Fougere is in favour of the project.

^^How else would you propose adding the extra 20k seats necessary to host the Grey Cup? I'd say what they've done is the best option available. I like that there is angling in the corners; better than a straight across end zone set of stands that doesn't point the spectators to the field in the corners.

They filled the angles nicely on the ground! I would have just assumed that they could do the same at the level above! That's all!

Just noticed this thread on the Stockholmsarenan (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1246057) in Sweden. Despite early allusions to the FargoDome in North Dakota, the Stockholmsarenan was to be the model for the new Regina stadium.

I'm a little fearful that some of the momentum is being lost on the Regina stadium project. The Riders aren't as successful on the field as they were a few years ago and project booster Mayor Pat Fiacco is stepping down.

However, Fiacco's preferred successor Michael Fougere is in favour of the project.


Nah, it's not lost. There's a lot of work going on in the background. The city just approved I think 4 positions to manage the project (business models, negotiating with investors, planning, etc) so I think it's more of a case of lining up all the ducks before pushing forward.

Bombers announce update on Investors Group Field (http://cfl.ca/article/bombers-announce-update-on-ivestors-group-field)
BlueBombers.com Staff February 27, 2012

WINNIPEG -- The Winnipeg Football Club announced today an update on the construction and the opening of Investors Group Field.

“As we all know, construction of a major facility is dependent on many different factors,” said Jim Bell, Vice-President and Chief Operating Officer of the Winnipeg Blue Bombers.

“We were given a comprehensive construction overview last week, and were advised that the construction team has lost over 60 days due to weather. While we are enjoying mild temperatures, high winds have hampered the very dangerous work associated with the erection of the partial roof canopy. Workplace safety is of foremost importance and we support our construction team’s decisions as to when it’s safe to operate the cranes and when it is not. In light of this information, we will play our preseason game on June 20 at Canad Inns Stadium, and plan to open the regular season at Investors Group Field on July 26.”

The July 26 date is dependent on a milestone being met in early May.

“I can assure people that our construction team is working around the clock to make this time up with whatever resources are necessary, and to meet the dates required,” said Ossama AbouZeid, Stadium Project Manager.

“We are asking our fans to bear with us as we work through this process. We are focused thoroughly on giving our fans the best and complete game day atmosphere and experience possible. With that in mind, we are hoping that with our preseason game being held at historic Canad Inns Stadium, and our first four games on the road to the start the regular season, we will be in a position to open Investors Group Field on July 26,” said Bell.

As the organization continues its season ticket allocation program, season ticket holders for 2012 will be credited the difference to equal the value of the 2011 preseason game ticket.

SASKATOON EXPRESSES INTEREST TO NHL FOR A FRANCHISE
BOB MCKENZIE
3/1/2012 1:57:00 PM

No one is suggesting the NHL is considering relocating an existing franchise to Saskatoon.

But it is fair to say there have been expressions of interest from parties in the prairie city to purchase, relocate and house an NHL franchise in Saskatoon's Credit Union Centre.

Obviously, if the NHL is faced with relocating another franchise -- those options may have to be legitimately explored in the coming weeks or months with regards to the long-term future of the Phoenix Coyotes -- the most logical landing-spot candidates are Seattle, Quebec City, Kansas City and perhaps Las Vegas.

But interested parties in Saskatoon have contacted the league and suggested there are individuals or parties in Saskatoon who would be willing to ante up the required purchase fee while various levels of government in Saskatchewan would make necessary arrangements to expand and make NHL-suitable the 15,800-seat Credit Union Centre.

Even though Saskatoon's actual population is around 250,000 -- which at face value would seem to be far too small to support an NHL franchise -- the Saskatoon interests are pitching that an NHL franchise there would be supported by the entire province and it would be a viable operation.

In 1983, the St. Louis Blues almost moved to Saskatoon. Then-owner Ralston Purina were going to sell the franchise to Bill Hunter, who was going to relocate it to Saskatoon. The league blocked the move, took the franchise over when Ralston Purina effectively abandoned it and sold it to Harry Ornest, who kept the team alive in St. Louis.

Meanwhile, the NHL continues to focus on negotiations with three groups who have expressed varying degrees of interest in buying the Coyotes from the NHL and working out a deal with the City of Glendale to keep the franchise there long-term. But if those negotiations don't progress in the coming weeks, it's believed the NHL willl have no other option but to begin pursuing a parallel track to look at its relocation options while still trying to make the Phoenix scenario work.

Either way, one would assume by the end of the NHL regular season -- in mid-April -- the league will need to know whether it's staying in Phoenix for another year or relocating the franchise. Conventional wisdom is the league can't wait as long as it did last spring when Atlanta was relocated to Winnipeg in a process that started in late April and was consummated in late May. Ownership group True North in Winnipeg had an existing infrastructure in place that permitted a relatively smooth transition at such a late date.

But as interested as parties may now be in Seattle and Quebec, for example, none are as fully developed or operationally sound as True North was.

In the meantime, the short-term focus of the league is entirely on trying to nail down a completed agreement to purchase in Phoenix.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=389234

Yes, and I understand that Duluth Minnesota has an interest in a NFL franchise. I believe both cities have about an equal shot at obtaining their goal. It is fun to dream though.

The ironic part is that they'd draw far better in Saskatoon than they would in Phoenix.

The ironic part is that they'd draw far better in Saskatoon than they would in Phoenix.

There is no doubt about that. They would probably sell out every game just like in Winnipeg. Unfortunately for NHL teams, gate receipts are usually far less than even player expenses and account for less than half of team revenue. You need a lot of corporate support to make an NHL team work and that would be an issue in Saskatoon. Hockey is a great sport but evidently a lousy business (unless you own the Leafs, Rangers or Canadiens) as according to Forbes, 18 NHL teams lost money last year.

18 NHL teams lost money last year.

And that's why I'm fearing another lockout:ohno:

There is no doubt about that. They would probably sell out every game just like in Winnipeg. Unfortunately for NHL teams, gate receipts are usually far less than even player expenses and account for less than half of team revenue. You need a lot of corporate support to make an NHL team work and that would be an issue in Saskatoon. Hockey is a great sport but evidently a lousy business (unless you own the Leafs, Rangers or Canadiens) as according to Forbes, 18 NHL teams lost money last year.

The over corporatization of professional sports has ruined them to a large degree. It's what I find so refreshing about the CFL and CIS. They're still to a large degree about the sport, the fan, and are accessible.

Duh, I've just clued in to my own post. On the previous page the two graphics of Mosaic stadium show the year 2012, 33,000 seat bowl configuration and the year 2013, ugly 50,000 seat temporary Grey Cup configuration. For some reason I thought the designs were one and the same (shown from different viewing angles)

The bowl design should look quite good and it will revert back to that after the Grey Cup.

For those who may be sceptical there's really no reason to think the new stadium will not go ahead. Mosaic will be getting a 14 million dollar "temporary" upgrade (http://www.cansoc.org/showthread.php?37017-New-Canadian-stadiums&p=438142&viewfull=1#post438142) so it will not be a total embarrassment when it hosts the Grey Cup. This will also create new revenue streams and a better fan experience for the minimum four year period before the new stadium is completed.

The movers and shakers are still insisting upon a new stadium. Why would they do that if they weren't truly meaning to get a new stadium? They could just as easily announce the upgrade as the new solution and be done with it.

We know from experience that the Winnipeg stadium took almost 8 years from conception to completion so a completion date of 2016 for the new stadium may be overly ambitious. This relatively inexpensive renovation will see them through the four years and likely longer.

The over corporatization of professional sports has ruined them to a large degree. It's what I find so refreshing about the CFL and CIS. They're still to a large degree about the sport, the fan, and are accessible.Amen, I don't think you are alone in that view.

There is a growing resentment of overpaid prima donnas or as the kids on the Internet say pre-Madonnas (sic). When fans start siding with greedy billionaire owners over greedy millionaire players you know there is a problem.

When you can't distinguish between A-Rod and Lady Gaga, sports has a problem. When ordinary folk who once were the backbone of professional teams are unable to afford a ticket and the arenas are half occupied by the corporate and IOC suit types (when they bother to show up), pro sports are out of touch.

The rapid growth of MMA is due to the genuine personalities and accessibility of the athletes. The big four had best beware they are rapidly pricing themselves out of the marketplace.

MLB is the only one of the 4 that's still affordable, but it's lost its meaning to me as well. I don't go expecting my team to win and don't care too much if they do. We all know which teams will win the division before the season starts: owners buy championships. I go to sit out in the sun and eat a hot dog. Maybe I'll check out Inter-County League this year.

I imagine they'll likely connect the ACC to Skydome underground once Southcore builds out.

Bombers/Bisons stadium, Winnipeg

http://adams.uploads.s3.amazonaws.com/wpg/images/general/2012/03/13312323054507.jpg
Courtesy of the Winnipeg Blue Bombers Football Club

Realistically, if Toronto has aspirations to be a Summer Olympics host, then they need to consider how they could use any stadium post games as a legacy.

If Toronto were to build a 40,000 seat stadium in the Port Lands, then this could be used by the Argonauts as a home ground.

There is plenty of technology out there to make a stadium multi purpose.

1) The Stade de France has sliding stands which can be retracted to reveal a running track yet with stands in place is a perfect venue for Rugby Union

2) The new Singapore Sports Hub is employing similar technology

3) the Moses Mabhida stadium in Durban, South Africa has seating technology allowing additional seats to be easily added or removed allowing its normal 54,000 seats capacity to be increased to 80,000 for the Olympic games

A stadium of 40,000 (with retractable stands allowing a Track and Field capacity of 35,000) designed to add an extra 25,000-30,000 seats for a future Olympic games bid - the IOC require a minimum 60,000 seats at the main stadium, would seem to be ideal.

Realistically, if Toronto has aspirations to be a Summer Olympics host, then they need to consider how they could use any stadium post games as a legacy.

If Toronto were to build a 40,000 seat stadium in the Port Lands, then this could be used by the Argonauts as a home ground.

There is plenty of technology out there to make a stadium multi purpose.

1) The Stade de France has sliding stands which can be retracted to reveal a running track yet with stands in place is a perfect venue for Rugby Union

2) The new Singapore Sports Hub is employing similar technology

3) the Moses Mabhida stadium in Durban, South Africa has seating technology allowing additional seats to be easily added or removed allowing its normal 54,000 seats capacity to be increased to 80,000 for the Olympic games

A stadium of 40,000 (with retractable stands allowing a Track and Field capacity of 35,000) designed to add an extra 25,000-30,000 seats for a future Olympic games bid - the IOC require a minimum 60,000 seats at the main stadium, would seem to be ideal.

The problem is that if Toronto got the Olympics the legacy will be an NFL team. A 70,000+ stadium is the only thing holding back NFL from going to Toronto.

If any future Toronto Olympic Stadium is going to be dual purpose (or triple purpose if retractable seating is used for the odd athletics meet), then why not propose a Vancouver BC Place approach?

Have the Toronto NFL team at full capacity, with the CFL Argonauts side using only the first tier, with tarps covering the 2nd one?

Although it was great to see almost 59,000 in Montreal this weekend, does anyone have any update on the Saputo Stadium reno? The Montreal Impact's Facebook page has not been update in 2 months and this is supposed to be ready for June.....

Although it was great to see almost 59,000 in Montreal this weekend, does anyone have any update on the Saputo Stadium reno? The Montreal Impact's Facebook page has not been update in 2 months and this is supposed to be ready for June.....

They showed some footage during the pre-game on saturday. My first impression was that it doesn't look like much has been done

The problem is that if Toronto got the Olympics the legacy will be an NFL team. A 70,000+ stadium is the only thing holding back NFL from going to Toronto.

It is going to take a lot more than just a 70,000 seat stadium for Toronto to ever get a NFL team. Don't forget that NFL teams can only be owned by individuals and not by corporations (no Rogers or MLSE need apply). So you would need either a team willing to move there (as opposed to moving to Los Angeles, London or San Antonio/Austin) or you would need a very wealthy individual with a spare couple of billion dollars (who would have to outbid all the other billionaires who also want to own a NFL team in their city) to buy a team and move it to Toronto. Considering how poorly the money losing "Bills in Toronto" series went, who would spend that kind of cash to bring a team to a city full of apathetic football fans. I don't know of any football crazy billionaires floating around Ontario looking to buy an NFL team. Even the NFL commissioner thinks that all the NFL in Toronto talk is dead.

Considering how poorly the money losing "Bills in Toronto" series went, who would spend that kind of cash to bring a team to a city full of apathetic football fans. I don't know of any football crazy billionaires floating around Ontario looking to buy an NFL team. Even the NFL commissioner thinks that all the NFL in Toronto talk is dead.

Agree 100%. Toronto needs to stop eyeing the greener grass on the other side of the fence and refocus on the football team it already has. This city can barely support one football team and it wants another one? What a joke!

The problem is that if Toronto got the Olympics the legacy will be an NFL team. A 70,000+ stadium is the only thing holding back NFL from going to Toronto.

Nonsense. The NFL has little interest in the Toronto market. The legacy team has to be Toronto's current football team, the Argonauts. There is no reason why Toronto can't build a 80,000 seat Olympic stadium that is reduced to a 40,000 seat CFL specific facility after the Games.

Stadium Australia had a capacity of 110,000 for the Sydney Olympics and was reduced by 27,000 seats afterwards. The reconfiguration of Stadium Australia cost $80 million. They removed the 2 wing stands and the athletics track as well as other alterations. Toronto will have to do follow a similar path.

It is going to take a lot more than just a 70,000 seat stadium for Toronto to ever get a NFL team. Don't forget that NFL teams can only be owned by individuals and not by corporations (no Rogers or MLSE need apply). So you would need either a team willing to move there (as opposed to moving to Los Angeles, London or San Antonio/Austin) or you would need a very wealthy individual with a spare couple of billion dollars (who would have to outbid all the other billionaires who also want to own a NFL team in their city) to buy a team and move it to Toronto. Considering how poorly the money losing "Bills in Toronto" series went, who would spend that kind of cash to bring a team to a city full of apathetic football fans. I don't know of any football crazy billionaires floating around Ontario looking to buy an NFL team. Even the NFL commissioner thinks that all the NFL in Toronto talk is dead.

True for the most part but Ted Rogers did want to do so and was nosing around the Toronto Olympic bid about their future stadium plans before he died. I have a feeling that if another Olympic bid comes about, some group will be hoping to get that stadium for NFL after the games because frankly, getting a state of the art facility that could house a NFL team for free is most of the battle. Even the NFL have stated they aren't ruling out the possibility of further expansion if the "right situation" comes about. Since Toronto is a huge metro area the NFL wouldn't turn down a bid.
That being said, I highly doubt that Toronto are ever getting the games in my lifetime. Far too expense. Even the Vancouver Olympics were the breaking point on spending and the Winter games cost far, far less than the Summer ones.

Toronto seems to have its hands full with the Pan-ams, which seems to be a continuing pattern in Toronto with hosting big events, I don't know why but they cant seem to organize them properly. I'm sure we will see a Toronto bid for the 2024 games though, as the Canadian Olympic Committee seems too be yearning for a summer games and Toronto is currently the only city interested/capable.

As for the NFL, Toronto has a hard enough time with the Argos.

Impact’s $23M expansion a relative bargain (http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2012/02/27/Facilities/Montreal-Impact.aspx)
Don Muret, Staff Writer SportsBusiness Journal Daily February 27, 2012

The Montreal Impact is expanding its four-year-old soccer stadium to meet Major League Soccer standards at a fraction of the cost of the league’s newest venues.

The Impact moves up to MLS this season after playing last year in the North American Soccer League. Before that, the team competed for several seasons in the United Soccer Leagues.

The $23 million expansion, now under construction, will push Saputo Stadium’s seating from 13,034 to 20,341 and boost the number of suites from 16 to 35. The facility is next to Olympic Stadium and opened in 2008 at a cost of $17 million.

The team will play its first five home games at Olympic Stadium before moving back to Saputo Stadium in mid-June after the expansion is completed, said Richard Legendre, executive vice president. The first game back is scheduled for June 16 against Seattle.

At a total cost of $40 million, Saputo Stadium’s price tag is far below what it cost MLS clubs to build new stadiums in other markets. Livestrong Sporting Park and Red Bull Arena, built in 2011 and 2010, respectively, cost $200 million and $150 million.

With the province of Quebec financing the project, the Impact went lean with the expansion and decided against adding a stage, loading docks and other infrastructure upgrades to accommodate concerts and other special events.

Team officials saw those design elements at some of the 10 to 12 MLS stadiums they visited over the past year, but felt those extra features did not make good business sense in a market where Bell Centre is the dominant concert venue, Legendre said.

“To have two to three concerts during the summer doesn’t justify the additional investment, and physically, at Olympic Park, there was not much space to expand,” he said. “This will be soccer only. We made that choice.”

Saputo Stadium sits on the site of the old track and field practice facility for the 1976 Olympics, and the Impact was able to use part of the existing bleacher structure during original construction. As a result, the north-side stands sit lower than the south side, Legendre said.

Of the 7,000 new seats, 3,500 make up the new west grandstand, with an additional 1,250 seats in the southeast and southwest corners. About 1,000 seats were added to the east grandstand.

The existing roof will extend over the upper rows of each grandstand and cover about 7,000 total seats, including the middle sections on the north and south sides, where top-end season-ticket holders pay $70 a game

The team has sold about 70 percent of the suites, Legendre said. They run $22,000 a year for eight seats and $32,000 annually for 12 seats. Terms are three and six years. Game tickets are included, but food and drink is a separate cost.

There is space behind both goals to build a few more suites if needed, Legendre said.

The Impact will continue to use Olympic Stadium for bigger international matches. The club previously drew 55,000 for a CONCACAF Champions League quarterfinal game in 2009 and about 48,000 against AC Milan in 2010.

http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/2448/saputo1.jpg

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/1460/saputo2.jpg

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/4827/saputo4.jpg

It's not really a "bargain". You get what you pay for. Saputo Stadium is similar in quality to Crew Stadium in Columbus.

I would put it a step ahead of crew stadium, but its certainly nowhere near the finish level of KC, New York or the like. But to the average fan is it going to be that much different than the majority of the venues in MLS? I doubt it, good sightlines, looks comfortable enough and appears like it will have the requisite facilities even if it goes look a bit cheap.

I would put it a step ahead of crew stadium, but its certainly nowhere near the finish level of KC, New York or the like. But to the average fan is it going to be that much different than the majority of the venues in MLS? I doubt it, good sightlines, looks comfortable enough and appears like it will have the requisite facilities even if it goes look a bit cheap.

And all things being equal would you rather watch a game here or at Gillette Stadium, or RFK, or Buck Shaw in San Jose.
Overall I think it is a good (not Great) MLS stadium and they have the flexibility to move to Olympic Stadium for Big Event Games

And all things being equal would you rather watch a game here or at Gillette Stadium, or RFK, or Buck Shaw in San Jose.
Overall I think it is a good (not Great) MLS stadium and they have the flexibility to move to Olympic Stadium for Big Event Games

Exactly, If I had to class it against other MLS venues I would put it in the same general range as Toronto, Colorado, Dallas, Philly, Portland and the New San Jose stadium; definitely better situation than Columbus, DC, New England but not quite up to what LA, Salt Lake or Houston have and definitely not what New York, Seattle or KC in particular have. And this is strictly in terms of stadium quality to the fan, not how has the best support etc.

Exactly, If I had to class it against other MLS venues I would put it in the same general range as Toronto, Colorado, Dallas, Philly, Portland and the New San Jose stadium; definitely better situation than Columbus, DC, New England but not quite up to what LA, Salt Lake or Houston have and definitely not what New York, Seattle or KC in particular have. And this is strictly in terms of stadium quality to the fan, not how has the best support etc.

I would have to disagree with putting Portland, Colorado and San Jose in the same category. San Jose because we haven't seen it yet. I think it has great potential to be intimate, loud, and has a unique European style design (and yes I'm very biased being a loyal Earthquake supporter). Ive been to both Portland and Colorado and they are amazing facilities. Even before the renovation, Portland's stadium was a great venue for soccer. After the renovation its even better. Great sight lines and the roof makes for an amazing fan experiance. Colorado's stadium is very similar to the HDC. When I went I felt it was almost a replica.

The Impact have a great stadium its a simply design that works so well and since it was a remove of a stadium already built its a great job. It could be built in the uk tomorrow and no one would know that its being built in Canada.

I would have to disagree with putting Portland, Colorado and San Jose in the same category. San Jose because we haven't seen it yet. I think it has great potential to be intimate, loud, and has a unique European style design (and yes I'm very biased being a loyal Earthquake supporter). Ive been to both Portland and Colorado and they are amazing facilities. Even before the renovation, Portland's stadium was a great venue for soccer. After the renovation its even better. Great sight lines and the roof makes for an amazing fan experiance. Colorado's stadium is very similar to the HDC. When I went I felt it was almost a replica.

Portland has quite a few obstructed views and some concourse issues in the original portion, I know that the atmosphere is second to none but I was commenting on the stadium not the fans. And I for one have always found Colorado to be underwhelming. Also I know the new San Jose stadium isn't built yet but seems like a done deal and I for one am pretty impressed with everything but the location (especially given the budget). One would argue that it being a Horseshoe layout and having an open concourse near field level would make it something other than a "European design", which I would encourage, trying to find a more culturally specific mode of design would be ideal.

N39IN1BWrrc

The Calgary Flames purchased the Calgary Stampeders football team this week and this tidbit about a new joint facility was mentioned:

"We are smack in the middle of planning for a new building. I think we've been pretty public about that," King continued. "We haven't talked about what that might look like or exactly where it will be . . . Now, only now, we'll look in to determine if it makes any sense at all to try and combine a stadium and arena. We'll look closely at that. But that's not to be confused with a master plan that we're going to pull out tomorrow."

http://www.calgaryherald.com/business/Flames+complete+power+play/6384128/story.html#ixzz1qfaEZ6Ew

It's not really a "bargain". You get what you pay for. Saputo Stadium is similar in quality to Crew Stadium in Columbus.

Particularly so when one considers the temporary Empire Field in Vancouver having had a much larger capacity and cost a mere 15 million.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empire_Field#cite_note-4

Even if it were temporary, it's design is conventional to the point where anyone could adopt it, build it for the same price and just claim it being permanent. After all, it does have a concrete base and secured stands.

Even if it were temporary, it's design is conventional to the point where anyone could adopt it, build it for the same price and just claim it being permanent. After all, it does have a concrete base and secured stands.And no concessions, toilets, administrative offices, properly equipped locker rooms or training areas.

Hamilton seeks protection for any Pan Am delays (http://www.hamiltonnews.com/news/hamilton-seeks-protection-for-any-pan-am-delays/)
Kevin Werner, News Staff March, 26, 2012

Hamilton politicians and city officials are looking to the provincial government to cover up to $2 million in lost revenue to the city and the Hamilton Tiger-Cats if the new Ivor Wynne Stadium isn’t ready by its July 1, 2014 completion date.

City officials have talked to Tiger-Cat representatives about the possibility that the club may have to miss a home game if the $154-million facility isn’t ready by the July 1 date.

Scott Mitchell, president of the Hamilton Tiger-Cats, said the club could lose anywhere between $1.6 million to $2 million in revenue, while the city would forego about $200,000 from one home date.

“It would be a big impact on the city to lose (the money),” said Mitchell. “The city is concerned. But nobody is anything but positive that the stadium will be ready in time. (The request to the province) is a smart thing to do.”

Tony Tollis, Hamilton’s treasurer, asked during a Pan Am Precinct sub-committee meeting March 26, if Infrastructure Ontario could guarantee the city it would be reimbursed in any lost revenue or added expenses if the stadium isn’t ready on time.

But John McKendrick, senior vice president, AFP and Major Projects for Infrastructure Ontario, said he didn’t have the authority to make that guarantee to the municipality.

“It would require the commitment of the minister of Infrastructure Ontario,” said McKendrick.

Ward 3 councillor Bernie Morelli urged the subcommittee to approve a motion to ask the provincial government to indemnify the city for any costs in case the stadium isn’t ready.

“What we are trying to do is save us an expense that could occur if (the stadium) goes south,” he said.

The motion is expected to be debated at the March 28 council meeting.

McKendrick insisted that everything is being done to make sure the stadium and all the other venues for the 2015 Pan Am Games, will be ready by the deadline.

He reiterated the province and Toronto 2015 Pan Am organization committee’s statement that the games are being conducted “on time, and on budget.”

The province has already guaranteed it will cover any cost overruns of the games.

He said for instance, the companies that are awarded contracts for the venues, will need to borrow the money to begin the work. If the company doesn’t meet the deadlines that the province has established, the province won’t them for any work done, he said. And since the companies will still have to pay the interest on the loans they have taken out for the capital projects, the financial penalties could be very steep, he said. McKendrick estimated companies could be facing at least $25,000 per day in interest if they don’t meet the deadline.

“When you get $25,000, $50,000 per day in interest charges, you tend to get focused,” he said.

The timeline to build the stadium and the other venues remains tight. The provincial government recently extended the request for proposals process on the stadium, velodrome and athletic facility from the end of March to May 24. The province will evaluate the RFPs over the next two months, with a bid being awarded in June. It will be another two months for the winning company to sign the contract with the province, expected sometime in September. The Tiger-Cats will still play out their 2012 season, but they will have to vacate the venue by Dec. 2, 2012. The construction will be monitored by the city, IO and Toronto 2015 to make sure all targets are met.

“I think we have lined up all the ducks, to make sure (missed deadlines) are highly unlikely,” said McKendrick.

Meanwhile, city officials revealed it will cost less to oversee the Pan Am 2015 activities in Hamilton that was previously proposed. Initially, the city was told it would cost about $2.8 million in operating costs over the next four years for the Pan Am Games. But Coralee Secore, manager of Pan Am Initiatives, said it will not cost about $1.5 million.

For 2012, the cost is estimated to be $340,300, which will include two full-time employees. In 2013, the budget dips to $299,250, but in 2014, the budget jumps to $389,700, and three full-time staff. In 2015, the budget is projected to be $463,500.

The subcommittee approved the 2012 Pan Am budget, which will now go to the next government issues committee meeting.

The money is for administrative expenses, including a new office, and mileage. It does not cover the cost to provide a practice facility or dressing rooms for the Tiger-Cats.

And no concessions, toilets, administrative offices, properly equipped locker rooms or training areas.

you use that as a base design. Add a couple of million for a few skyboxes, making it all individual seats, and adding concourses to the stands as opposed to "temporary" concession and toilet booths outside.

For say 20 - 30 million for a 27,000 seater modern stadium to host Football (Soccer) for example seems like a bargain price.

Update on new stadium finally coming (http://cjme.com/story/update-new-stadium-finally-coming/50857)
Mayor: expect full update by the end of the month
Patrick Book Apr 3, 2012

Regina Mayor Pat Fiacco says more information on the status of the new stadium proposal will be coming soon.

Joining John Gormley Live this morning, Fiacco said a complete update on the progress of the project to build a new stadium and completely redevelop the downtown area will come to city council at the end of the month.

"That will talk about the purchase of the CP land and also talk about the actual new facility that is going to be built and what we've heard from the private sectors," he said.

Fiacco decided to hold back on the information to wait for one larger announcement instead of releasing it in bits and pieces. Without the whole picture he says any small updates would only raise more questions.

Exactly, If I had to class it against other MLS venues I would put it in the same general range as Toronto, Colorado, Dallas, Philly, Portland and the New San Jose stadium; definitely better situation than Columbus, DC, New England but not quite up to what LA, Salt Lake or Houston have and definitely not what New York, Seattle or KC in particular have. And this is strictly in terms of stadium quality to the fan, not how has the best support etc.

Although columbus is looking at new stadium options and realizes that crew stadium is not on par with red bull arena or livestrong park, I would not put it in the same category with old RFK,empty gillette,or buck shaw. Crew stadium has made numerous improvements in recent years with pitch level LED boards,more food options,improved parking,youth soccer pitches next to the stadium,better pregame festivities,huge banners on the exterior showing the teams history,etc.. It still has private clubs,luxury boxes,and great sightlines. I mean really if you put a partial roof on crew stadium it would be very similar to most of the other stadiums in the league toyota park,fc dallas etc..

I think saputo stadium is perfectly fine for the mls and they have a great option of playing at olympic for their larger crowds.

Encouraging news regarding the Regina football stadium. I can't see it not going ahead as Mosaic is quickly reaching the end of its shelf life. The question remains what form the new stadium will take.

I'm hoping that they'll just bite the bullet and go all out; the $500 million they've been floating about would suggest so. I just loved that First Nations proposal, but as long as it's 38,000+ the Roughriders should do fine. They really shouldn't go smaller than that.

Yep. The best football fans in the country deserve the best football stadium. I wouldn't mind if the federal government pitches in a significant amount too. They've done that for Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver. Certainly Regina has a good case too.

The Feds are out, they made that clear already. I'm still hoping or the retractable dome, but the small thinkers are still out in full-force (Saskatchewan really only recovered from the great depression in the last 10 years) so we will see what happens. In any case the retractable stadium that was proposed was 33k perm seats, with room to expand to about 45-50k. I'm not sure if those same designs are still on the table, but the announcement will make it clear soon enough I guess.

Halifax is now (http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/78048-no-halifax-stadium-soccer-world-cup) out of the running for getting a stadium for the Women's World Cup. Looks like Moncton will be the stadium used for the east coast.

No Halifax stadium for soccer World Cup (http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/78048-no-halifax-stadium-soccer-world-cup)

Halifax will not be hosting any games in the 2015 FIFA Women’s World Cup.

Regional council on Tuesday ruled the project too expensive for the city, as it found itself with no other partners to help pay for a stadium that municipal staff most recently projected would cost $57 million.

Councillors voted 22-1 to shelve the project, with Coun. David Hendsbee (Preston-Lawrencetown-Chezzetcook) the only dissenting voice.

The decision was hardly a surprise — neither the province nor Ottawa committed to the project in December, when Halifax was supposed to let Canada Soccer know if it could afford to host one of the World Cup games.

Canada Soccer gave the city an extra three months to find funding, but city staff said Tuesday that none could be found after meetings with the premier, federal ministers and other provincial party leaders.

Updates from Saputo Stadium where construction seems to be ramping up:

http://distilleryimage11.instagram.com/a012f9a8800611e1b10e123138105d6b_7.jpg

And more pics here taken by a fan:

http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y93/Mpenza/Stade%20Saputo%20V2/?albumview=slideshow

That roof on the Saputo stadium is... ... ...useless!

Its useful for the back half of the seating in terms of weather, should be generally useful acoustically and helps define the space nicely. But yes other than that totally useless....

Renovations underway at Mosaic Stadium (http://www.newstalk650.com/story/renovations-underway-mosaic-stadium/51248)
Stands in the endzone already bulldozed to make room for upgrades
Adriana Christianson CKOM Apr 5, 2012

The home of the Roughriders is getting a makeover and it's already looking different.

Construction crews are working on upgrades to Mosaic Stadium months ahead of the preseason.

Stands on the north and south ends were torn down last week to clear the way for the next phase of construction.

Craig Reynolds, chief financial officer for the Roughriders said they are on track to meet the goal of finishing all of the upgrades before the preseason.

"Our entire organization was pretty excited - we knew it needed to happen fast in order to be ready for the preseason but I guess you're always surprised at how fast things can happen," Reynolds commented.

The demolition phase did bring up a lot of memories for some.

"When the maxtron went down I know some of our game-day folks sort of shed a little tear because it's near and dear to many people's hearts but it's exciting to see the activity happen."

Reynolds thinks it will all be worth it when fans see the new design.

"The end result is going to look fantastic, it's going to be a bowled-in atmosphere," he explained.

"There's going to be about 7500 to 7600 extra seats in both the north endzone and the south endzone - the north endzone will be largely replacing some seating that has been there previously.

Along with a new megatron screen they will be adding new box suites and concourse areas.

All of these upgrades come with a budget of $14 million and they are a temporary measure meant to make the old stadium look it's best before hosting the 2013 Grey Cup.

Meanwhile Mayor Pat Fiacco said people in Regina can expect an update on the progress of plans for the new multi-purpose facility by the end of this month.

Here's a video showcasing plans for Mosaic Stadium. Quite impressive for a metropolitan area of only 200,000.

Grey Cup Plans in the Football Heartland

vtni16x6FXQ

Pretty impressive for $14mil when you throw in the scoreboards, well done Sask.

McMahon, Calgary really is an embarrassment to the league and the city!! Big rich city and we have that crap college stadium that most wont even go to.

^^ I think McMahon Stadium just needs to go fully individual seats and become a bowl shaped stadium. I'd expect such a major upgrade if for example, Calgary were to host the Winter Olympics again, or even a Commonwealth Games, where the venue would serve for ceremonies.

^^ I think McMahon Stadium just needs to go fully individual seats and become a bowl shaped stadium. I'd expect such a major upgrade if for example, Calgary were to host the Winter Olympics again, or even a Commonwealth Games, where the venue would serve for ceremonies.

Calgary will not bother to renovate this stadium. If and when Calgary holds any major events it will be in a new stadium.

^^ But surely the upgrades from the 1988 Olympics should not be dismissed, nor the ideal location. All you need to do is complete the bowl by removing the north and southern elements of the stadium. Remove bleacher seating and replace with individual seats. Perhaps match the east end with similar looking skyboxes as the west end. Maybe even a roof over the seats.

It will be far cheaper than building a brand new stadium, I think it's achievable at reasonable cost.

^^ But surely the upgrades from the 1988 Olympics should not be dismissed, nor the ideal location. All you need to do is complete the bowl by removing the north and southern elements of the stadium. Remove bleacher seating and replace with individual seats. Perhaps match the east end with similar looking skyboxes as the west end. Maybe even a roof over the seats.

It will be far cheaper than building a brand new stadium, I think it's achievable at reasonable cost.

Honestly, if you know Calgary, then you would know that won't happen. Calgary is no longer the small cowboy town it has been. It wants to see itself in the same light as the big cities of North America. Would they settle on a $50million reno? OR even $100million? Nope.

As for location, it isn't the ideal location. The Stampede grounds on the edge of the Downtown core would make a much better spot.

My first try at a image post. So hopefully you'll see Kelowna's Prospera Place, on the Lake. These photos were taken when it was previously names Skyreach Place.http://www.australialuxe.info/013-2.jpg

Honestly, if you know Calgary, then you would know that won't happen. Calgary is no longer the small cowboy town it has been. It wants to see itself in the same light as the big cities of North America. Would they settle on a $50million reno? OR even $100million? Nope.

As for location, it isn't the ideal location. The Stampede grounds on the edge of the Downtown core would make a much better spot.

The Calgary Flames recently bought the Stampeders. The Flames president said they are investigating if a new dual use facility that can work for both teams. I'm guessing it would have to be based off of Saitama Super Arena if that's the case.

^^ But surely the upgrades from the 1988 Olympics should not be dismissed, nor the ideal location. All you need to do is complete the bowl by removing the north and southern elements of the stadium. Remove bleacher seating and replace with individual seats. Perhaps match the east end with similar looking skyboxes as the west end. Maybe even a roof over the seats.

It will be far cheaper than building a brand new stadium, I think it's achievable at reasonable cost.


I agree paying for a ticket these days and fronting up to your isle and seat and finding a badly painted bench or that 'arse shaped' half seat is brutal - yep keep the foot print, individual back seat everything, and bowl it (lower level only like new Winnipeg) and you have a decent stadium - look at Regina for $14mil - heck Calgary just dropped $50mil on a stupid bridge to nowhere!! Throw a roof on if you must but not necessary in my opinion.

Build something decent and all the issues you have in Calgary disappear - location is not ideal but has fairly decent parking lots and near subway line. Additionally the yahoos that frequent games now would calm down a bit in a decent seat and decent environment (I refuse to take my kids or wife to any seat not in season ticket area as the language, fighting, beer consumption is high school at best and unpoliced)

Looking at the new stadiums in CFL one would think the Stamps would be guilted into it ......

The answer to McMahon Stadium is simple, do the proposed upgrades similar to Regina's stadium at around 25 million or so. Expandability to 50,000 for the Grey Cup, for use until a new stadium downtown is built.

The key legacy is that McMahon Stadium will still be used by the university, whether a downsized state or not, who knows? Perhaps even for some Stampeder Games or Pre season games. It will definitely still be used by the university's team.

The Calgary Flames recently bought the Stampeders. The Flames president said they are investigating if a new dual use facility that can work for both teams. I'm guessing it would have to be based off of Saitama Super Arena if that's the case.Thanks for the example, I've never seen it. I was envisioning something along the lines of Frank Clair/Civic Centre and the issues they had with the renovation being limited by the original design.

I'm not a fan of this kind of multipurpose concept but it looks like it works here.

Saitama Super Arena Tokyo, Saitama, Japan (http://www.ellerbebecket.com/expertise/project/124/Saitama_Super_Arena.html)

An arena? A stadium? No, wait, it’s a concert venue! In about 20 minutes, the Saitama Super Arena near Tokyo converts from an intimate concert venue to a full-fledged stadium. A high-tech concept called Moving Block, developed in an international design competition, moves 9,200 seats—along with restrooms, concessions and hallways—a distance of 231 ft. (70 m) to convert the arena to a stadium and back again.

http://i40.tinypic.com/20rl56h.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/2moov9h.jpg


Not sure how well this would work for hockey. Hockey fans want an intimate, close to the action atmosphere (who doesn't) Don't know if the bigger Canadian football field would cause issues but then again a new hockey arena in Canada is going to have at least 20,000 seats. Interesting structure nonetheless.

Saitama Super Arena (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saitama_Super_Arena) is a multi-purpose indoor arena located in Chūō-ku, Saitama City, Saitama, Japan.

Its spectator capacity is 37,000 (perfect size for Stamps) at maximum settings. This main arena capacity is between 19,000-22,500 when events such as basketball, volleyball, tennis, ice hockey, gymnastics, boxing, mixed martial arts, and professional wrestling take place there.

It is also the only Japanese arena equipped especially for American football. The arena features a gigantic moveable section of seating which can reduce capacity for smaller events and create a more intimate setting.

Welcome to the smartest stadium in the world (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/2001776360_les28.html)
Les Carpenter / Seattle Times staff columnist October 28, 2003

TOKYO — About 10 years ago, the people of the Tokyo suburb of Saitama decided they wanted to remake their city center. A plan was conceived to build blocks and blocks of gleaming towers.

And in the middle would stand the most technologically-advanced sports facility in the world.

http://i43.tinypic.com/21u01.jpg

This week, the Sonics open their season in what the architects and designers call "the smart arena." But it might as well be called "a genius," because no other stadiums in the world can do as much as this one.

No other 35,000-seat stadium can turn itself into a 20,000-seat arena, then a 6,000-seat concert hall in a matter of minutes. Until now, it's never been possible.

Sure, the Kingdome had movable stands that could make a 60,000-seat dome feel something like an arena. Some domes even use curtains to close off whole sections and create a general sense of intimacy. But Saitama Stadium actually moves stands, ceilings, concourses and restrooms to legitimately change a stadium into an arena.

"It's totally unique," says Gordon Wood of Ellerbe-Becket, the Kansas City firm that designed Saitama Stadium and also designed and built Seahawks Stadium.

It's also expensive. The final price for Saitama Stadium (completed in 2000) was around $700 million, but this is what the city wanted. Because conceivably, the building can be used every day of the year, for events ranging from football to soccer to basketball, to boxing, to concerts and conventions. Some at the same time.

The trick is in the seating sections. Saitama Stadium is built in an elongated oval with arcing grandstands at each end and a long, straight grandstand on the side. It is fully enclosed, but since the roof is flat, it is not considered a dome. When workers want to convert the stadium into an arena, the stands on the side fold into the walls, and the block of seats at one end moves across the floor to meet up with the other end section.

At the same time, a sub-ceiling drops down from the roof, closing off the arena from the rest of the stadium.

"You don't want to have a feeling like you're playing basketball in a stadium the way you do with domes," Wood says.

The whole process takes about 20 minutes rather than the hours it took to transform a building such as the Kingdome.

Which raises a good question. If the technology existed to make Saitama Stadium the world's ideal multipurpose facility, why couldn't Seattle have used such science to replace the Kingdome? This way it would have had a stadium for football and soccer (World Cup matches were played in Saitama last year), an arena for the Final Four and an exhibition hall.

The reasons it wouldn't work are linked in cost and practicality. For all of its versatility, Saitama Stadium is small. The maximum number of people it can house for an event is about 35,000. A more workable number for football and soccer games is 30,000. And $700 million is a lot to spend for a 35,000-seat indoor stadium.

"I don't think there is an American city that would want a 30,000-seat stadium and a 20,000-seat arena," Wood says. "We talked to Singapore about something like this, but they wanted a 50,000 to 60,000-seat stadium and the scale changes and the economy changes.

"At some point, you get to the place where you're just better off building a new stadium and a new arena."

In short, it would cost a lot more than $700 million.

And while it might seem absurd to have spent about $1 billion on two stadiums south of Pioneer Square, it would have been more expensive to build a baseball stadium and an all-in-one replacement for the Kingdome.

This is why the world's first smart arena might be the world's only smart arena. Better look closely when watching the Sonics this week, because it's unlikely we'll ever see something similar to Saitama Stadium in the United States.

Still, it's a work of ingenuity. The stadium, in its arena mode, even has a floor that drops down, allowing for more seats to be placed close to a boxing or wrestling ring. Special partitions can be moved around a section of stands to create a small theater ideal for concerts and plays.

There isn't much they didn't think of.

Except for a way to make it work over here.

Could this work for Calgary? The money is there, they just need the will to do it. Quebec City has approved its 18,000 seat, 400 million + dollar hockey arena, so for the Flames, this is going to be expensive, no getting around that.

The new Regina stadium was inspired by the Stockholmsarenan (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1246057) (that concept may change by the end of the month), will Saitama Stadium be the inspiration for the Flames/Stamps?

Japan’s Super Arena Sets Standard in Engineering & Design (http://www.ellerbebecket.com/success/newsitem/48/Japan_s_Super_Arena_Sets_Standard_in_Engineering_Design.html)
Ellerbe Becket April 25th, 2000

...

Saitama’s technological marvels are complemented by its gleaming silver futuristic exterior. Large amounts of glass allow natural light to illuminate the pathways, and the roof structure extends 218 feet (66 meters) above grade.

At the heart of the design is a concept called Moving Block (MB), which allows the facility to move 9,200 seats along with restrooms, concessions and circulation elements 231 feet (70 meters) between the arena configuration and the stadium configuration. The move from one end to the other takes 20 minutes and is achieved by means of 64 base bogeys or trucks that travel on steel rails composed of four guide rails and 18 flat rails. When in position, the base trucks are held by lock pins.

A system of flexible, quick-connecting utilities: water, sewer and electricity was devised for rapid conversion between the arena and stadium modes. Electricity is provided by cables that are on a cable reel system that automatically winds the slack as the MB closes, and releases it when it opens. Plumbing and air-conditioning are cut and connected automatically whenever the MB moves.

The arena boasts a movable Lambda floor that can be moved vertically, up or down, to produce a variety of stage configurations.

Saitama’s ability to host a number of different activities meant significant emphasis on sound quality design. The seats are made from sound-absorbing materials, and the arena’s sound-shielding design ensures that noise does not leak outside the building.

Some good photos of Saitama arena and stadium mode and discussion of pros and cons of the design here (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=326545)

I cant see any scenario where a 150yard x 65yard long football field fits efficiently with a 66yards (200feet) x 28yard (85feet) arena - lets not forget who the 'big swinging dick' is here, it is the hockey team with hockey money, football is very much an after thought 'few extra bucks' here along with the WHL team and lacrosse, any stadium will be a hockey footprint.

Sure share the parking lots and infrastructure but no way can I see any scenario that doesn't involve 2 separate stadiums.

One area in Calgary I have always thought would be great for a 'stadium area' would be the area west of the Greyhound Depot, not sure of what that area is called but there are a few car dealers there, pumphouse theatre - tonnes of space, right next to the river, new LRT line, Greyhound Dept for ground transport and fairly central.

http://www.google.ca/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Calgary,+AB&aq=0&oq=calgary&sll=49.894634,-97.163086&sspn=16.635528,39.506836&vpsrc=6&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Calgary,+Division+No.+6,+Alberta&ll=51.047141,-114.107459&spn=0.007919,0.01929&t=k&z=16

I don't think the design looks like it would serve the hockey side very well (gaps in seating?) Just wondering what the Flames were thinking from the quote below.

I'm not sure if we can infer he meant something like Saitama or if he meant trying to build two projects around the same time.

"We are smack in the middle of planning for a new building. I think we've been pretty public about that," King continued. "We haven't talked about what that might look like or exactly where it will be . . . Now, only now, we'll look in to determine if it makes any sense at all to try and combine a stadium and arena. We'll look closely at that. But that's not to be confused with a master plan that we're going to pull out tomorrow."

Moscow VTB Arena is currently under construction

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1110571

http://vtb-arena.com/gallery/photo/3/516.jpg
http://photo.championat.net/4/4196/full/150368.jpg
http://vtb-arena.com/gallery/photo/2/684.jpg


However it is definitely a football (soccer) stadium with a hockey tenant, cool design and like most Russian construction currently huge $$, looks to me to be a little too ambitious for Calgary

Complex cost: $ 1,400,000,000
Stadium cost: $ 400,000,000
Opening: 2016

I don't think the design looks like it would serve the hockey side very well (gaps in seating?) Just wondering what the Flames were thinking from the quote below.

I'm not sure if we can infer he meant something like Saitama or if he meant trying to build two projects around the same time.

"We are smack in the middle of planning for a new building. I think we've been pretty public about that," King continued. "We haven't talked about what that might look like or exactly where it will be . . . Now, only now, we'll look in to determine if it makes any sense at all to try and combine a stadium and arena. We'll look closely at that. But that's not to be confused with a master plan that we're going to pull out tomorrow."

I think the statement is just what it is, they are going to look into it. Due diligence and all that. Calgary are more likely to get dollars from the government if they roll both projects into one but if that seems to be more expensive than doing separate projects, that is what they will do.

Thanks for the example, I've never seen it. I was envisioning something along the lines of Frank Clair/Civic Centre and the issues they had with the renovation being limited by the original design.

I'm not a fan of this kind of multipurpose concept but it looks like it works here.

Saitama Super Arena Tokyo, Saitama, Japan (http://www.ellerbebecket.com/expertise/project/124/Saitama_Super_Arena.html)

An arena? A stadium? No, wait, it’s a concert venue! In about 20 minutes, the Saitama Super Arena near Tokyo converts from an intimate concert venue to a full-fledged stadium. A high-tech concept called Moving Block, developed in an international design competition, moves 9,200 seats—along with restrooms, concessions and hallways—a distance of 231 ft. (70 m) to convert the arena to a stadium and back again.

http://i40.tinypic.com/20rl56h.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/2moov9h.jpg


Not sure how well this would work for hockey. Hockey fans want an intimate, close to the action atmosphere (who doesn't) Don't know if the bigger Canadian football field would cause issues but then again a new hockey arena in Canada is going to have at least 20,000 seats. Interesting structure nonetheless.

Saitama Super Arena (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saitama_Super_Arena) is a multi-purpose indoor arena located in Chūō-ku, Saitama City, Saitama, Japan.

Its spectator capacity is 37,000 (perfect size for Stamps) at maximum settings. This main arena capacity is between 19,000-22,500 when events such as basketball, volleyball, tennis, ice hockey, gymnastics, boxing, mixed martial arts, and professional wrestling take place there.

It is also the only Japanese arena equipped especially for American football. The arena features a gigantic moveable section of seating which can reduce capacity for smaller events and create a more intimate setting.

Interesting looking stadium but it would work better for soccer than the CFL. In the football configuration, a bulk of the seats are in the endzones. In soccer that is not much of a problem, but in the CFL those are the cheap-cheap seats. I don't see Calgary using one facility for two separate sets of stadium needs. Maybe a football stadium and a hockey arena in the same location, but definitely two separate facilities. The Moscow facility is amazing. Too bad Calgary doesn't have a spare billion and a half to build something like that.

Here's a render for the proposed 450 million CDN$ arena for the Edmonton Oilers (http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2012/04/25/proposed_oilers_arena_futuristic/)...

http://i.imgur.com/AlQJE.jpg http://i.imgur.com/2JWB0.jpg

EDMONTON -- Images of a proposed arena for downtown Edmonton feature a futuristic building of steel and glass shaped like a lop-sided boomerang.

The arena is expected to cost $450 million and would be the new home for the NHL's Edmonton Oilers.

A newly released design shows the ice rink would get lots of daylight because of glass-sided walls.

A tall pedway would take people down to a new public square.

"It's very modern, it's curve-linear, it's free-flowing," said Rick Daviss, executive director for the project.

"I think that helps to sort of soften the hard edges. It is going to be a fairly significant building and if you can round it and put on some effective street-level treatment and landscaping, you can make it still human scale."

The city says the pictures are part of preliminary design work that provides a starting point for evaluating other options.

Oiler's president Patrick LaForge was impressed with the design.

"I think it looks fantastic actually -- befitting a city that has such a high esteem for hockey and entertainment."

City council voted in October to sign a cost-shared deal with Oilers owner Daryl Katz for the new arena, although the project is still $100 million short.

Both Katz and the city have been asking for that money from Ottawa or the province. Both governments have already said publicly that they will not use tax dollars to fund private enterprises.

I love Canada so much ,i has never been there before, people tell me the city is so beautiful and clean ,no pollution and clean breathable air ,the picture should the biggest gymnasium in ca,i hope i would be there very soon! but i has one question,i am so crazy for the american hokey games,i used to buy lots of Jerseys from one online wholesale NFL jerseys (http://www.bucknfljersey.com) site and try on the NHL jersey and watch American Nation Hokey Games on TV all the night!,i doubt if the Canadian has nation Hokey League like USA?because i like usa NHL so much,

That Edmonton arena is wonderful. It's about time we started building good looking arenas. Frankly, I've been getting tired of the endless inventory of giant metal and brick sheds that dot the country. Good job Edmonton!

Here's a render for the proposed 450 million CDN$ arena for the Edmonton Oilers (http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2012/04/25/proposed_oilers_arena_futuristic/)...

http://i.imgur.com/AlQJE.jpg http://i.imgur.com/2JWB0.jpg

EDMONTON -- Images of a proposed arena for downtown Edmonton feature a futuristic building of steel and glass shaped like a lop-sided boomerang.

The arena is expected to cost $450 million and would be the new home for the NHL's Edmonton Oilers.

A newly released design shows the ice rink would get lots of daylight because of glass-sided walls.

A tall pedway would take people down to a new public square.

"It's very modern, it's curve-linear, it's free-flowing," said Rick Daviss, executive director for the project.

"I think that helps to sort of soften the hard edges. It is going to be a fairly significant building and if you can round it and put on some effective street-level treatment and landscaping, you can make it still human scale."

The city says the pictures are part of preliminary design work that provides a starting point for evaluating other options.

Oiler's president Patrick LaForge was impressed with the design.

"I think it looks fantastic actually -- befitting a city that has such a high esteem for hockey and entertainment."

City council voted in October to sign a cost-shared deal with Oilers owner Daryl Katz for the new arena, although the project is still $100 million short.

Both Katz and the city have been asking for that money from Ottawa or the province. Both governments have already said publicly that they will not use tax dollars to fund private enterprises.

It is a beautiful looking arena, but what is going on with the "leg" portion? What will be in that part of the arena? Will that part be for offices/training areas for the oilers or for a shopping area? Does anyone know? I seems a little big to be just a pedway.

Markham town council approves financial framework for arena (http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/04/27/markham-town-council-approves-stadium-financial-framework/)
Matthew Scianitti Apr 27, 2012

The GTA Centre could host hockey, but it would not be built with the expectation a hockey team would arrive. (The Air Canada Centre, home of the Toronto Maple Leafs, is fewer than 50 kilometres south of the proposed site.)

Markham town council voted 11 to two late Thursday night to approve a financial framework for a $325-million arena, with half of the funds being generated by Markham.

Markham mayor Frank Scarpitti said during the meeting the approval of the framework does not signify the immediate start to construction, and that exploratory work and consultation with the public will continue.

There is no date of completion on the venue proposed to be built between Warden Avenue and Kennedy Road, immediately north of Highway 407

The other half of money to fund the 20,000 seat arena is to be provided by GTA Centre Limited Partnership, a private partnership chaired by Graeme Roustan, the chairman of Bauer Performance Sports Ltd.

Thursday was the second council meeting after an initial vote last Friday to continue examining the financial framework was passed unanimously.

The town of over 300,000 plans to pay its $162.5 million debt back over 20 years, at a 4.6% interest rate, with services and development fees

Although Roustan, Scarpitti, and several supporters on council, have praised the planned venue as a community, sports and cultural complex, which already has events waiting to secure dates, rumours persist the arena could potentially be the home of a second NHL team in southern Ontario.

An article in the Markham Economist & Sun Wednesday said private council meetings and confidential documents suggest Markham is concerned the arena would be unsustainable without a NHL franchise, and council is considering a “termination clause” if Roustan fails to bring a NHL team to the York Region community.

Roustan, who helped bring a NHL franchise to San Jose, has also made bids for Montreal and Tampa Bay in the last few years.

New season, same old stadium (http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/new-season-same-old-stadium-149195295.html)
Sources confirm Bombers won't be moving until September
Bruce Owen Winnipeg Free Press

The Winnipeg Blue Bombers won't play in their new stadium at the University of Manitoba until September at the earliest, sources confirmed Thursday.

Under a timeline now being looked at by the CFL club, the first game in the new 33,500-seat Investors Group Field will be played after Labour Day. But what wasn't confirmed is if it will be the Banjo Bowl the week after or a later game on the September schedule.

What the football club is looking at is how much it has to do to get Canad Inns Stadium ready to host at least four regular-season games, including the home opener against Edmonton on July 26, before the switch to the new stadium. The team's revised game plan also involves looking at how it will accommodate fans who've paid more to upgrade their season tickets in the new stadium.

Spokesmen for the Bombers said the club will update its fans as early as May 1 on its stadium and seating plans. The team has indicated it does have a contingency plan in place to host regular-season games at Canad Inns Stadium for the 2012 season.

"They must be tearing their hair out over at the Bomber office," 30-year-season-ticket holder Lynda MacIntosh said. "What a mess to reassign people seats and then maybe to even switch over. It might just be better to play the whole season at the old stadium and then start fresh next year, but that would cause all kinds of howling, I'm sure."

Confusion over when the first game will be played in the new stadium resurfaced last week when Mayor Sam Katz told a city television station he understood the Bombers would not be playing in it until September. Hours later, he told the Free Press the July 26 opening was still on track.

Katz, referring to a conversation he had with Bombers CEO Garth Buchko, told Global News the new facility at the U of M would not be ready for the home opener against the Eskimos.

In a subsequent interview with the Free Press, Katz said the stadium is slated to open July 26, a date the football club said it was working toward.

The Bombers originally said the $190-million facility would be ready by the June 20 opening-day exhibition game, but in February pushed it back to July 26 when they said the stadium was two months behind schedule.

Now it's even further behind schedule, mostly because of construction delays due to wind; moving beams into place can't be done safely in windy conditions. At the same time, workers can't be underneath when the stadium's upper structure is being placed by cranes. Contractors have also complained about delays in getting around the tight construction site as it can take excessive amounts of time to transfer workers and equipment from the main access point to areas where work is being done. Work on the west-side canopy still has a long way to go and, even to the uneducated eye, it's easy to see it will take the equivalent of a construction Hail Mary to get the job done in time for even a few home games.

Ten-year season-ticket holder Ron Cantiveros said the easiest thing for the Bombers to do is to issue two sets of tickets to season-ticket holders.

"Give me two sets of tickets, one for my old seats in the old stadium and one for my new seats in the new stadium and whenever the switch-over happens it happens," he said.

What could pose problems is the higher ticket price many fans have paid for their new stadium seats, but will find themselves still sitting in their old stadium seats for at least one pre-season game and four regular-season games.

Cantiveros said the Bombers could apply the difference to playoff games, discounts on Bombers merchandise or to 2013 season tickets.

"It'd be in their best interest to keep the cash in," he said, adding no matter what happens, he'll still be in the stands.

"A season-ticket holder is a season-ticket holder. I don't think we're too finicky, at least I'm not. We're in it for the long term. I'm a bit disappointed in the schedule, but it's nothing the Bombers could do."

Investors Group Field - photos by Boris Minkevich Winnipeg Free Press April 27/2012 (http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/multimedia/pov/Winnipeg-from-the-air-149255995.html)

http://i48.tinypic.com/2psp2lh.jpg

http://i45.tinypic.com/4j9ovp.jpg

http://i46.tinypic.com/10z5ik9.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/2py9541.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/35ioxom.jpg

That Winnipeg stadium cant be finished fast enough.

Heritage Classic 2013. Make it happen NHL.

Appeal court ruling on Lansdowne due Monday (http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Appeal+court+ruling+Lansdowne+Monday/6530210/story.html)
David Reevely, The Ottawa Citizen April 27, 2012

http://i40.tinypic.com/sqk37c.jpg
Residents and politicians alike have been impatiently awaiting the three-judge panel’s decision since the Lansdowne case was heard in November.

OTTAWA — The Ontario Court of Appeal will rule on Monday on the major court case over the redevelopment of Lansdowne Park, it announced Friday.

The case, a challenge of the city’s plans to work with a group of private developers and sports businessmen to renovate Frank Clair Stadium, add a park to part of the property and commercial and residential buildings to the rest, was heard in November. Residents and politicians alike have been impatiently awaiting the three-judge panel’s decision ever since.

The city’s opponents, the Friends of Lansdowne, argue that the deal with the Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group amounts to an illegal subsidy of their business, that the agreement was reached in bad faith, and that it violated the city’s own procurement bylaw. After a trial last summer, Justice Charles Hackland ruled comprehensively in the city’s favour, but the Friends appealed on the grounds that Hackland made numerous legal errors in his decision.

There’s little legal precedent in Ontario for how public-private partnerships should be assessed; it’s illegal for a municipality to subsidize a private enterprise, but what constitutes a subsidy in a complex partnership isn’t clear. The only precedent is another ruling of Hackland’s.

The court typically gives one business day of notice of its reserved rulings, which is why notice came out Friday. The ruling should be released around noon on Monday.

Increasingly anxious city staff have been urging the city to move ahead with parts of the Lansdowne project that can be done independently of the partnership with OSEG. The whole thing is to be done by summer 2015, but court delays are squeezing that timeline hard. It’s not clear what would happen to the plans if either side tries to take the appeal court’s ruling to the Supreme Court of Canada.

Also Friday, a Glebe man with an alternative vision for Lansdowne Park announced he’d filed papers seeking to appeal a court’s dismissal of his case. John Martin, proprietor of the Lansdowne Park Conservancy, says the city should have considered his proposal rather than rejecting it on the grounds that the Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group’s offer to the city included the unique element of a Canadian Football League franchise.

It's outrageous that a few hundred citizens can jeopardize the plans of a metropolitan area of 1.2 million people. It's astonishing how selfish some people can be. Can these people be sued?

The Winnipeg Blue Bombers won't play in their new stadium at the University of Manitoba until September at the earliest, sources confirmed Thursday.


Disappointing, but safety must come first. I just hope they can move their for the Riders game. It would be the first home game after Labour Day, the day when the season usually starts heating up. The CFL schedule has the following home dates in September:

September 9th vs. Saskatchewan Roughriders
September 21st vs. Hamilton Tiger Cats
September 29th vs. Toronto Argonauts

Does anyone know if the Bombers plan on configuring the stadium at the larger 40,000 seat capacity for the inaugural game? I can't see them opting for the smaller configuration. They'd surely sell out at 40,000.

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/topstories/2012/04/27/hi-markham-arena-complex-co.jpg
http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20120417/470_markham_nhl_arena_120417.jpg

New GTA arena in Markham (immediately north of Toronto). 20,000 seats to rival ACC they say its just for concerts and etc but hopefully it brings another NHL franchise to the GTA.

They have the land purchased it just has to be approved by Markham city council.

They say in a perfect world shovels will be in the ground by 2012 and completed construction by 2014/2015.

It will be nice to see how this pans out.

http://www.cbc.ca/gfx/images/news/topstories/2012/04/27/hi-markham-arena-complex-co.jpg
http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/img2/20120417/470_markham_nhl_arena_120417.jpg

New GTA arena in Markham (immediately north of Toronto). 20,000 seats to rival ACC they say its just for concerts and etc but hopefully it brings another NHL franchise to the GTA.

They have the land purchased it just has to be approved by Markham city council.

They say in a perfect world shovels will be in the ground by 2012 and completed construction by 2014/2015.

It will be nice to see how this pans out.

I really hope this happens. It is not too far from where I live. I just hope that if they get an NHL team that they will be called the Ontario (fill in your nickname) and not the Toronto (fill in your nickname).

I really hope this happens. It is not too far from where I live. I just hope that if they get an NHL team that they will be called the Ontario (fill in your nickname) and not the Toronto (fill in your nickname).

I don't want them to have 'Toronto' in the name either, but wouldn't 'York' be a good place to start? This is York Region after all, population 1,032,524 in 2011. That's bigger than Winnipeg and slightly smaller than Calgary and Edmonton. York is also a name that has a very long history in this area of Ontario.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/YorkRegion.png

York Region
2011 population: 1,032,524
2031 population projection: 1,500,000
Area: 1,762 square kilometers/680.38 square miles
Largest Company: Magna International, Aurora

Magna is North America's largest auto parts firm, and 3rd largest in the world.

I don't want them to have 'Toronto' in the name either, but wouldn't 'York' be a good place to start? This is York Region after all, population 1,032,524 in 2011. That's bigger than Winnipeg and slightly smaller than Calgary and Edmonton. York is also a name that has a very long history in this area of Ontario.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/YorkRegion.png

York Region
2011 population: 1,032,524
2031 population projection: 1,500,000
Area: 1,762 square kilometers/680.38 square miles
Largest Company: Magna International, Aurora

Magna is North America's largest auto parts firm, and 3rd largest in the world.

The league wouldn't be too keen on naming it after a region most of north america is totally unfamiliar with. Plus, to build a fanbase you need to appeal to a broader audience.

I think it'll be most likely Toronto with a possibility of Ontario. Ontario Trilliums would be a good name in my book.

It would be silly to call them Ontario whatever's considering there are two other teams in the province. It is like in baseball... I find it really silly that there is a team called Texas Rangers when Houston has a team as well. They should just call it Markham ... or go with no city name at all.

Markham Markers? Markham Makers? Markham Mice? :P

It would be silly to call them Ontario whatever's considering there are two other teams in the province. It is like in baseball... I find it really silly that there is a team called Texas Rangers when Houston has a team as well. They should just call it Markham ... or go with no city name at all.

You can bet your life savings they will not be called Markham. There's good reason the league hasn't named their teams the Sunrise Panthers, Glendale Coyotes, Newark Devils, Kanata Senators, Nassau Islanders, or Raleigh Hurricanes.

Regina starting to get ducks in order - Elly63

Regina may need $100M for library and stadium (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/story/2012/04/28/sk-regina-borrowing-needs-120428.html?cmp=rss)
CBC News Apr 28, 2012

The city of Regina may need to borrow over $100 million to pay for a new main library building and a development associated with a new football stadium, according to a report prepared for a committee of city council (http://regina.ca/opencms/export/sites/regina.ca/.media/committee_agendas/city_council/04-30-2012/cm12-4.pdf).

In the report, city officials said the city will need permission from provincial authorities to increase the amount of money Regina may borrow, from a current ceiling of $200 million to $350 million.

The report noted that Saskatoon has an approved debt limit of $414 million.

According to Regina officials, the increase is needed to ensure major capital projects may be undertaken in the next few years.

A multi-million dollar upgrade to Regina's wastewater treatment system is one of the items that will require borrowing, the report said.

New library and stadium

Two other major projects have been added to the list: a new building for the central branch of the library and a new football stadium, part of a revitalization project.

The report identifies the projects by the acronyms RPL, for Regina Public Library and RRI, for the Regina Revitalization Initiative.

"Debt requirements for these projects is unknown at this time, but the total debt for these projects could exceed $100 million," said the report, which goes to the city's finance committee on Tuesday.

Officials said they will learn the borrowing needs of the library once the library board makes a decision on a new building for its central branch.

Details on the financing requirements for a new stadium will be determined over the next few months, the report said.

The report noted that it may be several months, or years, before the city will have to actually borrow the money but officials wanted to have the necessary approvals in place.

Currently, the city is carrying a debt of just under $90 million.

The report says that if plans proceed for the various projects, the city's debt will peak at $341 million sometime before 2016.

The league wouldn't be too keen on naming it after a region most of north america is totally unfamiliar with. Plus, to build a fanbase you need to appeal to a broader audience.

I think it'll be most likely Toronto with a possibility of Ontario. Ontario Trilliums would be a good name in my book.

In this country, people is smaller cities/suburbia tend to be more avid supporters of sports teams than people in big cities/urban cores. There are more than enough people in York Region to support a team, and Torontonians aren't going to boycott a team because the word 'Toronto' isn't in there.

Tons of people beyond Toronto support the Toronto Blue Jays, Toronto Maple Leafs, etc. and these teams weren't called the Ontario Blue Jays, Ontario Maple Leafs, etc.

Your first point: maybe its time people did become familiar with York Region. That's what sports franchises do; they put a place on the map.

There is an anti-Toronto feeling throughout Canada and even in Ontario. It is the whole "center of the universe" mentality. A NHL team based in Markham could focus on building a fan base throughout Ontario and become the anti-Toronto option. While there are more than enough people in the York Region to support an NHL team, calling the team the Ontario ______ allows you to build a fan connection in London, Hamilton, Kitchener, Windsor, Kingston, Oshawa and all the other areas that are part of Ontario but not part of Toronto. A NHL team in Markham called the Ontario _____ will sell a hell of a lot more merchandise than a NHL team in Markham named the Toronto ____ or the York _____. An Ontario named team would be a marketing bonanza for the new team owners. Maybe they can even get this team as one of their minor league affiliates.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSxzlILmvy5dsE2qyuaxAlD87b6j57MiqZYL67-SbUekaCkYZsC

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At the end of the day Toronto is a major league name and the team will want to pitch themselves as an alternative to the Leafs, not carve out a niche in the margins. Toronto is the centre of the hockey universe (sorry Montreal) and it's unprecedented across sports not to have multiple clubs in the flagship city. When one gets knocked out (like the Leafs always do), you dust off the old Mets hat in the bottom of your closet and root for your city.

As for the name, Toronto Rockets (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_Rocket) (sorry again Montreal)

I will never watch that team if they decide to call it Ontario whatevers. That is incredibly stupid. You can't just magically expand your market size based on what the name is. If that is the case, they might as well call it Canada HC or something so that people from every part of Canada start to support it. The vast majority of revenue will be derived from people who live in a relatively close vicinity. The team needs to be named on that region, hence it has to be Markham/York/Toronto.

York Region is a bigger hockey market than Buffalo, Winnipeg, San Jose, Phoenix, Tampa Bay, Columbus, Nashville, NC, or Miami. Ultimately, you'd want a teams in the following Ontario locales: Toronto, Ottawa, York, Mississauga, and Hamilton. They'd all bring in more revenue than any of the clubs listed above.

No way. No way, Toronto Metro isn't THAT big. It can handle maybe one more team.

Honestly bro u just put yourself out there.

GTA can support 3 teams now, maybe 4 down the road.

T.O.

Hockey. Mecca.

Real. Talk.

Ontario or Toronto will sell more shirts and tickets then york or markham team names will because alot of fans in the usa and around the world will hear "york" and think new york and alot of fans will have no clue where markham is. Sorry guys think you're to close to the puck to see the full story.

But the arena does look great, hope it happens

No way. No way, Toronto Metro isn't THAT big. It can handle maybe one more team.

No way. No way your right In the Golden Horseshoe alone there is 8,759,312 people as of 2011 Census. One-fourth of the population of Canada.

Location of the Golden Horseshoe in Southern Ontario.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Map_of_Ontario_GOLDEN_HORSESHOE.svg/340px-Map_of_Ontario_GOLDEN_HORSESHOE.svg.png

It's amazing that this hasn't happened sooner.

If one forth of the population of Canada (Canada=hockey crazy) is in this area that means there should be AT LEAST 2 hockey teams. And if Hamilton gets one there will be 3.

And the Greater Toronto Area had a population of 6,054,191 in the 2011 Census.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/Greater_toronto_area_map.svg/643px-Greater_toronto_area_map.svg.png

Know your facts before you post comments.

Winning!

^^ Another Durham I never knew about.

Markham looks like an awesome location for an arena.

Wishfull thinking for a lot of people.... Two teams in Toronto = twice the chance to NOT win a Stanley Cup :-)

^^ I don't follow hockey or have an interest in Stanley Cups, but it's undeniable that this part of Canada is shockingly under-served by the NHL. They've had so much US tunnel vision over the last 3 decades that they've allowed other sports to chip away at hockey's dominant position in southern Ontario. Hockey is still #1 by a long shot, but it's about time they started to buttress 'fortress hockey' with a few more teams.

Rule #1 in business: you don't ignore your best customer.

No way. No way your right In the Golden Horseshoe alone there is 8,759,312 people as of 2011 Census. One-fourth of the population of Canada.


Exactly. The Golden Horseshoe has 11 times the population of Winnipeg and 7 times the population of Calgary. It's the corporate, cultural, and media capital of Canada. 1 NHL team here is a colossal joke, 2 is a start, 3 would still leave the area slightly under-served, while 4 would properly develop the pro hockey market.

The Golden Horseshoe is rapidly growing through immigration. The NHL risks permanently losing these newcomers to other sports because it refuses to properly serve this market. We already have an entire generation who've opted for other sports partially because of NHL neglect.

If London can have 5 Premier League soccer teams, and Melbourne 11 Aussie Rules football teams, the Golden Horseshoe could surely support 4 NHL teams.

Toronto
Hamilton
York
Mississauga

Hamilton is closer to 770,000 but its Burlington suburb is lumped with Halton in the table below. It's the same size as Quebec City and Winnipeg! Hamilton is an old established city with a real downtown rather than being merely a suburban out growth of Toronto. Hamilton was a significant industrial city when Mississauga was still just farm land. Hamilton has Halton to one side and Niagara to the other; that's 1,452,964 people altogether.

http://i.imgur.com/fmlwm.png

Ok, honestly I think that Markham has about as much chance of landing an NHL team as Toronto has of winning the Stanley Cup....

First things first. Toronto needs an NHL team to have a chance at winning the cup.

People were saying that about Winnipeg 5 years ago and the case for York Region is a hell of a lot stronger.

Ok, honestly I think that Markham has about as much chance of landing an NHL team as Toronto has of winning the Stanley Cup....

First things first. Toronto needs an NHL team to have a chance at winning the cup.

Why is that even remotely relevant?

It's gonna happen, let's get to talking names. York is a no go for obvious reasons, Ontario sounds too minor league.

I already put Toronto Rockets out there.

Toronto Tornadoes?

Toronto Titans?

Thunder would've been good, but I think OKC immediately now.

It's outrageous that a few hundred citizens can jeopardize the plans of a metropolitan area of 1.2 million people. Can these people be sued?
City wins Lansdowne appeal; Watson urges Friends of Lansdowne not to appeal (http://www.ottawacitizen.com/business/Ottawa/6540729/story.html)
David Reevely, The Ottawa Citizen April 30, 2012

OTTAWA — The Friends of Lansdowne have fought a good fight but should stand down now that the Ontario Court of Appeal has dismissed a legal effort to stop the redevelopment of Lansdowne Park, Mayor Jim Watson said Monday.

In a unanimous ruling delivered Monday, three judges agreed with an earlier ruling that the city legally entered a partnership with the Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group for the project and that the deal doesn’t constitute an illegal subsidy for a private business. They comprehensively rejected the case brought by the Friends of Lansdowne.

“It is not for the courts to second guess or reweigh policy and financial considerations that informed the city’s decision to advance this development,” the ruling says. Whatever the merits of the Lansdowne plans, it says, there’s no proof the city conceived them improperly or did a dirty deal with OSEG to make them happen.

The unanimity means that the Friends of Lansdowne don’t have an automatic right to appeal to the Supreme Court of Canada: a further appeal is still possible, but it would require the Supreme Court’s permission.

Don’t do it, Watson said at a lunch-hour news conference. “Both sides together have spent close to $1.5 million in total and we have two unanimous decisions that allow the work will proceed,” Watson said. “I believe it’s time to accept and respect the court’s validation of city council’s decisions and move forward with this important city-building project.”

The Friends’ opposition is genuine and passionate, Watson said, but enough is enough.

City lawyer Rick O’Connor said if the case continues and the city wins, he’ll follow a recently revised policy that says the city should seek to have its legal bills paid by the other side. He estimated the city’s costs at $25,000 to deal with an application for leave to appeal to the Supreme Court, and a further $50,000 if such an appeal went ahead.

Councillor Tim Tierney clapped his hands and pumped a fist when he heard the judges’ decision was unanimous. “Yes!” he said. “Let’s get going!”

The case, a challenge of the city’s plans to work with a group of private developers and sports businessmen to renovate Frank Clair Stadium, add a park to part of the property and commercial and residential buildings to the rest, was heard in November. Residents and politicians alike impatiently awaited the three-judge panel’s decision ever since.

The Friends of Lansdowne argued that the deal with the Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group amounts to an illegal subsidy of their business, that the agreement was reached in bad faith, and that it violated the city’s own procurement bylaw. After a trial last summer, Justice Charles Hackland ruled comprehensively in the city’s favour, but the Friends appealed on the grounds that Hackland made numerous legal errors in his decision.

He didn’t, says the ruling from the three judges — written by Justice Susan Lang and agreed with by Justice Robert Blair and Chief Justice Warren Winkler — which supports Hackland’s findings in every respect. On the key question of whether a complex public-private partnership breaks the provincial law against municipalities’ subsidizing businesses, the appeal court said the deal has to be considered in its totality, not piecemeal. So even if parts of the Lansdowne plans do appear to give OSEG an unusual advantage, they’re permissible in the context of a larger deal.

Increasingly anxious city staff have been urging the city to move ahead with parts of the Lansdowne project that can be done independently of the partnership with OSEG. A final vote by city council is due in June; the hired-gun lawyer who handled the case for the city, Peter Doody, said that without a live court case over the plans, there’s no legal barrier holding them back.

The whole thing is to be done by summer 2015, but court delays are squeezing that timeline hard. It’s not clear what would happen to the plans if the Friends do try to take the appeal court’s ruling to the Supreme Court of Canada.

The Friends of Lansdowne and OSEG were still due to make public statements Monday afternoon.

It's gonna happen, let's get to talking names. York is a no go for obvious reasons, Ontario sounds too minor league.

I already put Toronto Rockets out there.

Toronto Tornadoes?

Toronto Titans?

Thunder would've been good, but I think OKC immediately now.

No more minor league than British Columbia Lions, Saskatchewan Roughriders, Texas Rangers, Utah Jazz, New Jersey Devils, Carolina Hurricanes, New England Patriots, Tennessee Titans, Arizona Cardinals, Golden State Warriors, Minnesota Wild, Minnesota Timberwolves, Minnesota Vikings, Minnesota Twins, Florida Panthers, Arizona Diamondbacks, Colorado Rockies, New York Islanders, Colorado Avalanche, Carolina Panthers, Indiana Pacers, New Jersey Nets, ..............

A few of those are to appeal to multiple large cities (Golden State, Minnesota) some because the town's name is too cumbersome (Salt Lake City) and some 1990s abortions from an era when New York/New Jersey MetroStars seemed like a good idea.

The trend is very much away from that. Look at the Miami Marlins or soon to be Brooklyn Nets.

And the CFL is as minor league as it gets. Where American uni rejects go to earn a cheque.:lol:

A few of those are to appeal to multiple large cities (Golden State, Minnesota) some because the town's name is too cumbersome (Salt Lake City) and some 1990s abortions from an era when New York/New Jersey MetroStars seemed like a good idea.

The trend is very much away from that. Look at the Miami Marlins or soon to be Brooklyn Nets.

And the CFL is as minor league as it gets. Where American uni rejects go to earn a cheque.:lol:

About 3.4% of American college football players make the NFL, are the other 96.6% complete crap? If so, please go to the states and tell them by and large their college programs suck, preferably someplace like Michigan on game day. Also, please let me know how large your American hospital bill is after they get done with you (or get your family to let me know how much it costs to ship a body back).

I'm really sick of fellow Canadians ragging on the CFL. It's a good league, entertaining, and the only domestic professional league we have. Time to have some pride in something of our own instead of looking south for approval.. If you don't like it, feel free not to pay attention, but there's no reason to bash it every chance you get.

About 3.4% of American college football players make the NFL, are the other 96.6% complete crap? If so, please go to the states and tell them by and large their college programs suck, preferably someplace like Michigan on game day. Also, please let me know how large your American hospital bill is after they get done with you (or get your family to let me know how much it costs to ship a body back).

I'm really sick of fellow Canadians ragging on the CFL. It's a good league, entertaining, and the only domestic professional league we have. Time to have some pride in something of our own instead of looking south for approval.. If you don't like it, feel free not to pay attention, but there's no reason to bash it every chance you get.

Hear, Hear!!!!! I hate posts like that, I don't see those people strapping on the pads......

Apols fellas, I did over egg things somewhat. Nowt wrong w the CFL, it's hardly an argument for provincial names though.

I played football and rugby in school btw. Strapped on a lid many times.:)

Your apology came just in time, I was gonna rip you a new one :) Oddly enough I was watching a doc on Jeff Garcia today and the guru of the NFL, Bill Walsh, was talking about how the CFL can ramp up a players skills.

Council approves Regina Revitalization status update (http://www.leaderpost.com/news/regina/6543008/story.html)
Terrence McEachern Leader-Post April 30, 2012

REGINA — Regina City Council approved a much anticipated status update at Monday night's meeting on the estimated $1 billion inner-city revitalization and new stadium project.

But not without a little drama.

Chad Novak, a mayoral candidate in the upcoming municipal election, raised some concerns with the Regina Revitalization Initiative announced by Mayor Pat Fiacco on April 19, 2011.

Fiacco dissected Novak's presentation, in one instance criticizing Novak for using a $400 million estimate for the dome stadium because it wasn't cited in the status update. Novak responded that he based the estimate on the defunct provincial project.

Fiacco also questioned Novak's notion of "major cost overruns" on other projects besides the City Square Plaza. When pressed, Novak was unable to provide examples of other projects.

He was also unable to provide examples of "closed door meetings" when asked to clarify.

According to the status update from city administration, some of the areas that have been approved by council so far are the implementation of a business unit to oversee the project and the establishment of a vision and guiding principles. The city also conducted a P3 market sounding process and issued for request for proposals to hire consultants.

The project's unfinished business includes purchasing the 33-acre CP Rail yard south of Dewdney Avenue ― the proposed site for a new stadium along with commercial and retail development. The city anticipates purchasing the land sometime in May.

On the remaining 20-acre plot of land where the soon-to-be demolished Mosaic Stadium sits, the plan is to build 700 housing units and more commercial and retail development.

Other aspects of the project still unfinished are the cost and design concept for a new stadium, gaining final approval from council on the proposed P3 funding model for the project, hiring a developer to complete the work and determining a plan for operating the new stadium.

However, an outstanding item, described in the report as "the most significant element that could negatively affect the project" is provincial funding. The report indicates that a formal proposal was sent to the province in April, and the city expects a response to clarify the province's level of support in the upcoming weeks.

Construction on the new stadium is expected to begin in 2013 and completed in three years. The overall revitalization project is expected to take 10-15 years to complete.

The report also highlights another concern ― affordability. The city has about $100 million in debt and a debt limit of $200 million. But the debt limit could increase to $350 million if a recommendation to a committee on May 1 is ultimately approved by council.

Earlier on Monday, Saskatchewan Party Cabinet Minister Ken Cheveldayoff wouldn't say how much funding the city was seeking or how much the province was willing to provide, adding the province needs to review the proposal before it can provide a response.

"It's a proposal that outlines some of their vision and some of their wants as far as the proposal and it itemizes some of the details of the revitalization that they're looking at for downtown . . . In due course there will be more information coming forward," he said.

After the meeting, Fiacco said that funding from the private sector is would be 75 per cent of the overall project. However, without provincial funding, "the project is dead, plain and simple." The new plan would be to redevelop the CP land and "leave it at that."

The previous stadium project fell apart in March 2011 when the provincial government withdrew after the federal government declined to offer funding.

Coun. Michael Fougere (Ward 4) was absent from Monday's meeting.

— With files from Angela Hall

Saskatchewan Roughriders in wait-and-see mode regarding stadium plans (http://www.leaderpost.com/sports/Saskatchewan+Roughriders+wait+mode+regarding+stadium+plans/6543735/story.html)
IAN HAMILTON Leader-Post April 30, 2012

REGINA — The Saskatchewan Roughriders remain in a holding pattern when it comes to a new stadium.

“We’re like everybody else: We’re waiting to see now,” Roughriders president and CEO Jim Hopson said Monday, when a report on the Regina Revitalization Initiative was presented to city council.

“As the city said, the process is on their timelines and they’re feeling good about it and now they’re waiting for the proposals and the costing. Once they get those, they can make a decision on type and location and all those sorts of things.

“They’ve been good (to deal with) and we’re just optimistic that by sometime this summer, hopefully we’ll have a much better indication of what’s going to happen.”

The report presented to council discussed the progress made on the revitalization plan, which involves changes to Regina’s inner city and the potential replacement of Mosaic Stadium — the current home of the CFL’s Roughriders.

The report said negotiations are continuing for the CP rail yards on Dewdney Avenue between Albert and Broad streets, which has long been predicted as the location of a new entertainment facility. However, the report also raised other potential spots, including the grounds of Evraz Place.

The report also discussed various stadium designs, including an open-air facility and a dome.

“They’re definitely throwing some different options out there than where we were a year ago,” said Hopson, who took a “quick glance” at the report before it was presented to council.

“We were involved up to our neck in the last one with the province and the city and that was clearly about building a domed facility, possibly with a retractable roof (a plan that was scrapped in 2011). The city has been more cautious in saying, ‘We’re going to look at what is doable, what’s affordable and more than one option.’ ’’

The city, the province and, potentially, private investors would likely foot much of the bill for the new facility. Hopson said the Roughriders also would probably contribute in some way, but he noted that wouldn’t give the team any say in the final choice of design or location.

“We’re not going to say we can drive the bus because we’re not the main funder,” he said.

The organization has been patiently waiting as the revitalization plan has been examined by the city, but that wasn’t always the case.

Hopson admitted there was some impatience on the Roughriders’ part as the plans to replace Mosaic Stadium bogged down — until the team looked at the magnitude of the project and what it could do for the city.

“What we’re doing right now has really helped us (with that sentiment),” said Hopson, referring to a $14-million facelift at Mosaic Stadium that the Roughriders have undertaken in preparation for playing host to the 2013 Grey Cup.

“We know that a new stadium is at least four years away and we’ve got a plan to get us through Grey Cup and a plan to get us to 2016 — the temporary seats, the suites, the new video boards.

“All of those things have got that sense of urgency (about a new stadium) ratcheted down a bit because now we know we’re fine for Grey Cup next year.”

Through the Grey Cup Legacy Project, the Roughriders are adding about 7,000 individual seats and 27 corporate suites in the end zones and erecting new digital video boards.

The second phase of the project involves the addition of another level of temporary seats that would bring Mosaic Stadium’s seating capacity for the Grey Cup to approximately 50,000. Those seats subsequently will be donated to interested communities in the province.

Hopson said crews have put up the steel beams for the video board in the northeast corner of the stadium and were working Monday on preparing to install the board on the west-side grandstand.

The installation of seats could begin in mid-May.

“Over the next month, there will be a tremendous amount of activity there and it’ll really take shape,” said Hopson, who has been told the seating and video boards will be ready for the Roughriders’ home pre-season game June 22 against the Calgary Stampeders.

And the CFL is as minor league as it gets. Where American uni rejects go to earn a cheque.

Perhaps you should have a little more respect for this country's culture. The CFL is our national football league and the only league of consequence based in Canada. It might not be as glamourous as your country's league, but so what?

Every league on the planet looks minor league compared to the NFL, but to label the CFL 'as minor league as it gets' is way off the mark. It's many notches above the NCAA and arguably more major league than MLS. This is football's 2nd best league. There are about 5-6 soccer leagues better than MLS.

I just saw your apology, but please be a little more respectful. The Argonauts and Tiger Cats are the 2 oldest professional sports franchises in north America and the CFL is a much loved institution in most places in this country.

I'm really sick of fellow Canadians ragging on the CFL.

I just assumed he was American. :(

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delete

The redevelopment of Lansdowne is hinging on a appeals decision that's coming out soon. Does anyone remember the date? I have to say that I find the park a better design that the stadium, but after so many years of no football in Ottawa I'll take it.

Every league on the planet looks minor league compared to the NFL, but to label the CFL 'as minor league as it gets' is way off the mark. It's many notches above the NCAA and arguably more major league than MLS. This is football's 2nd best league. There are about 5-6 soccer leagues better than MLS.
Hell, almost half the league are American-born players who beasted in college, many of which at the I-A/FBS level. Canadians like Andre Durie, Jesse Lumsden and Jamall Lee could've been stars in the NFL if given a fair shake (or, in the case of the former two, weren't injured all the time).

I remember a few years ago when the Argos had two Heisman winners as the second and third string QBs. Yes, there is a massive gap between the NFL and CFL but the gap between CFL and NCAA is much larger.... and understandably so. You can't compare a bunch of kids with full grown adults.

The redevelopment of Lansdowne is hinging on a appeals decision that's coming out soon. Does anyone remember the date? Look up. Waaaaaaaaay up...and I'll call Rusty.

You mean to Jesus?

Hell, almost half the league are American-born players who beasted in college, many of which at the I-A/FBS level. Canadians like Andre Durie, Jesse Lumsden and Jamall Lee could've been stars in the NFL if given a fair shake (or, in the case of the former two, weren't injured all the time).

Quite right. I bet the league is closer to two-thirds US players from the NCAA system. The idea that CFL players aren't very good is crazy. Their rosters are stacked with people who've lead their teams to Bowl wins or Vanier Cups.

You mean to Jesus?No, to post #2423 (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=90949559&postcount=2423)

The definitive article on the CFL re: NCAA
All-American CFL QB busts (http://www.torontosun.com/sports/columnists/bill_lankhof/2010/06/27/14539736.html)

Ahhh, post #2423 got lost on the last page. The Lansdowne news is such a relief; it felt like the squabbling would go on for ever. Summer of 2015 may be a tight time line for the whole project, but surely they could start with the stadium and have Ottawa back in the CFL for 2014?

Btw, good article on US quarterbacks coming to the CFL. I've book marked it for future reference. Thanks for the link.

Btw, good article on US quarterbacks coming to the CFL. I've book marked it for future reference. Thanks for the link.I got into a flame war with some idiot blogging for the Chicago Bears who persisted in denigrating the CFL because he thought it was funny. That was the time of the Andy Fantuz tryout. The article was the coup de grace to make the guy look like a total idiot.

Also interesting was an interview done with Montreal GM Jim Popp (whom the blogging idiot never heard of and called drunk and stupid) He stated something along the lines of the CFL looking for the NFL player going into third year who likely won't qualify for his pension. The NFL however wants a younger player (from the CFL) they can mould.

It was further humiliating to the blog clown when Jim Popp's name surfaced as a candidate for the Indianapolis GMs position after I had said that he would likely end up in the NFL in a few years.

NFL'ers (Canadian and American) tend to be the most condescending sports people I've ever come across. There are some in my league and come across others all the time. 90% of the time, they've never actually been to a CFL game or watched one on television, and are stunned when I tell them that the Grey Cup is 5 decades older than the Super Bowl.

A friend of mine (and sports fanatic) didn't even realize that Canadian football was the standard here nationally. He just assumed it was only the CFL that played 3 down football, and that high schools and universities all played US football. The level of ignorance is astounding.

I book marked the article because I know it will come in handy.

I don't have the link, But the city of Regina today announced they will be chasing a new outdoor stadium to be built at Evarz Place (fairgrounds), instead of a new domed stadium on the edge of the downtown core.

You're from Saskatchewan, right? Is Evarz Place as close to downtown as Mosaic?

I don't have the link, But the city of Regina today announced they will be chasing a new outdoor stadium to be built at Evarz Place (fairgrounds), instead of a new domed stadium on the edge of the downtown core.

What they can do is simple. You build an outdoor stadium that has the provisions to expand (obviously for Grey Cup and other major sporting events), whilst designed as such to allow for a retractable roof to be installed in the future (Perhaps something similar to Parken Stadium in Copenhagen, Denmark).

You're from Saskatchewan, right? Is Evarz Place as close to downtown as Mosaic?

Originally from the province. The new stadium would be a bit further out from the downtown. Right now Taylor Field would be halfway between downtown and the exhibition grounds.

^^ You build the new stadium on the fairgrounds, perhaps a new arena there too (in the future) and have the old stadium site converted to become an extension of whatever fairgrounds is left.

I always thought that their plans for a retractable roof stadium were a bit too ambitious. They should pursue a project that is on par with the new Winnipeg stadium.

Who said anything about too ambitious? You follow my idea of a stadium designed to support such a retractable roof in the future (you have either no roof or conventional roofing instead), then when you can afford it, you propose such a roof to be built in place.

Open air would indicate a scaled down project, but it's a bit too early to be drawing any conclusions. It may end up being on the lines of Investor Field, but likely larger. Investor Field is 33,500 expandable to 40,000. Regina's stadium would likely be 38,000 expandable to 50,000.

^^ Anyone agree to my 2 phase plan? Opened air then converted to retractable roof when you can afford it?

^^ You build the new stadium on the fairgrounds, perhaps a new arena there too (in the future) and have the old stadium site converted to become an extension of whatever fairgrounds is left.

The old stadium site will be turned in to residential. It would be the best fit for the neighbourhood.

As for a new arena, not in the next decade at least. The present arena may be renovated, but as for a new arena, don't hold your breath.

If you have ever been to Regina, you would soon realize expanding the exhibition grounds on to the old site would not be a good move.

I don't see the net benefit in going with a retractable roof at any point in time. Their fans prefer the open air atmosphere. A lot of stadiums talk about the retractable roof giving them the ability to host various big events during the off-season but there has been more and more evidence that those stadiums usually do not host enough events to justify the additional costs. Regina has a fairly big indoor arena as it is that allows them to host most large events ... that should be sufficient. If they have a roof like Winnipeg that provides coverage to most of the seats, that should be fine in my opinion.

I don't see the net benefit in going with a retractable roof at any point in time. Their fans prefer the open air atmosphere. A lot of stadiums talk about the retractable roof giving them the ability to host various big events during the off-season but there has been more and more evidence that those stadiums usually do not host enough events to justify the additional costs. Regina has a fairly big indoor arena as it is that allows them to host most large events ... that should be sufficient. If they have a roof like Winnipeg that provides coverage to most of the seats, that should be fine in my opinion.

Regina's arena currently holds around 7,000 for hockey. Not big by Canadian standards. The city has a large indoor exhibition center attached to the arena for trade shows and such.

As for retractable roof, I would not support my taxes going towards building and maintaining it. I own property in the province and don't want provincial money spent on a roof.

City eyes open-air stadium at Evraz Place (http://www.leaderpost.com/news/regina/City%20of%20Regina%20eyes%20open-air%20stadium%20at%20Evraz%20Place/6566971/story.html)
Terrence McEachern, Leader-Post May 4, 2012

REGINA — Mayor Pat Fiacco’s vision of a new Regina stadium and a revitalizalized inner-city has received a facelift.

On Friday, Brent Sjoberg, deputy city manager of corporate services and chief financial officer, unveiled details of the revised $1-billion Regina Revitalization Initiative that includes an open-air stadium, 700 affordable housing units and retail and commercial development.

Under a funding proposal sent to the provincial government on April 24, the city anticipates the total public contribution would be $348.2 million. This would involve $88.3 million from the city, $230 million from the province and $30 million from the federal government.

“We believe we came up with a financially feasible and responsible plan that supports additional density and investment in the core of the city,” said Sjoberg. “We also believe it will deliver public investments that provide a long-term benefit for the community.”

The 33,000-seat stadium would be built on a city-owned area of land at Evraz Place just west of Elphinstone Street across from the Sportplex. The stadium would be owned by the city and operated by Evraz Place.

The open-air stadium project is expected to cost taxpayers $278.2 million. Construction would cost $250 million with $200 million from the provincial government and $50 million from the city. For environmental and site-related costs, the city would contribute an additional $10.6 million, the province $8.8 million and the federal government $8.8 million.

Earlier in the week, Sjoberg estimated that an open-air stadium would cost between $200-$250 million whereas a domed or closed-roof stadium would cost $350-$380 million and a retractable roof stadium about $450 million.

Besides the $278.2-million stadium project, an additional $45.7 million will be spent developing the CP rail yard south of Dewdney Avenue and another $24.4 million to tear down Mosaic Stadium and redevelop the site.

At the project’s launch on April 19, 2011, a video showed a closed-roof stadium on 33 acres of CP rail land along with 20 acres of land where Mosaic Stadium now sits. Both areas would have had a mixture of residential units with retail and commercial property on the CP land.

Now the plan has the city purchasing only 17.5 acres of the CP land (with an estimated value of $7.3 million) and the stadium relocated to Evraz Place. The city still needs to finalize the CP land purchase deal, said Sjoberg.

The $45.7 million to develop the CP land would comprise of $18.1 million from the city (including the $7.3 million estimated land value), $13.8 million from the province and $13.8 million from the federal government. In addition to the retail, residential and commercial development, a new pedestrian bridge connecting downtown to the Warehouse District would be constructed.

The city anticipates an investment of $550-$650 million from the private sector for the overall project.

Construction on the stadium is expected to begin in the fall of 2013 and completed by 2016. Sjoberg said the private sector would front half the costs under a proposed P3 funding arrangement and be repaid over 30 years. The overall revitalization project is expected to take 10-15 years to complete.

To help with debt repayment, the city suggests that $3.9 million to $6.1 million in annual funding could be raised through an increased amusement tax, facility fee and new hotel tax as well as money saved from maintaining Mosaic Stadium. An annual property tax increase of one per cent for up to four years could be expected.

Sjoberg said the proposal will be sent to the city’s executive committee on Wednesday and then to city council for approval in June. Sjoberg has asked the province to respond to the city’s funding request by May 31.

Glen Davies, city manager, also attended Friday’s unveiling. He told reporters this proposal represents a “generational opportunity to revitalize the heart of Regina” in terms of community benefit, sustainable development and better use of the city’s land and infrastructure.

Gerry Ritz, federal agriculture minister and regional minister for Saskatchewan, reaffirmed the federal government’s position against funding stadiums in a press release on Friday.

“Canadians gave us a mandate to get back to balanced budgets and continue to focus on jobs and the economy. Our most recent election platform stated that we will not fund professional sports facilities. We will continue to apply this policy uniformly across the country.”

Details of the Regina Revitalization Initiative announced May 4, 2012:

* $348.3 million public funding proposal.
* Overall revitalization cost estimate, including private investment: $1 billion.
* $278.2 million, 33,000 seat open-air stadium project at Evraz Place.
* $45.7 million for site development of 17.5-acre CP rail land.
* $24.4 million Mosaic Stadium demolition plus site redevelopment.
* Includes 700 affordable housing units, commercial and retail development

Smaller than I expected. I would have thought around 38,000. Mosaic is expanding to 38,000 this year and 50,000 for 2013 in preparation for the Grey Cup. These next 2 seasons will be a good gauge of fan support as Mosaic at 30,000 was always sold out. If they sell out at 38,000 perhaps they'll build more capacity into the new stadium.

Smaller than I expected. I would have thought around 38,000. Mosaic is expanding to 38,000 this year and 50,000 for 2013 in preparation for the Grey Cup. These next 2 seasons will be a good gauge of fan support as Mosaic at 30,000 was always sold out. If they sell out at 38,000 perhaps they'll build more capacity into the new stadium.

35,000 would be ideal I think. Other than big marquee games, that should be enough. Saying that, certain teams could easily draw 40,000+

I have been to the Labour Game twice and cramming 30,000+ in was always a blast. Maybe some temporary stands nearby could be arranged for games? Time will tell.

In all likelihood, this stadium will be expandable to 50,000/55,000 so if they need more capacity for highly anticipated match ups or playoffs they will be able to do so. I am making the assumption that the design would allow for capacity can be adjusted from day to day.

Saskatchewan is turning into the Nebraska of Canada as far as football goes. 4.6% of Nebraskans turn up at Cornhuskers games. Saskatchewan bringing in 48,000 would represent a similar level of support.

http://www.directoryofhamilton.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/new-ivor-wynne-stadium.jpg

Pan American Stadium for the 2015 Pan American Games.

Ti-Cats will move in on 2014-2015 seasons.

The stadium will seat 22,000 for Canadian football, less than the CFL's stated minimum of 25,000; the league has not commented on the plans.

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The New Quebec City Amphitheatre, also known as the Quebecor Arena, is a new multi-use indoor arena in Quebec City, Quebec that is currently in the planning stages. It will mainly be used for ice hockey, and other indoor sports, as well as music concerts. It is due to open in 2015 (coinciding with the expiration of the New York Islanders' lease on the obsolete Nassau Coliseum, a fact that has not been lost on Quebec hockey fans) and will have a capacity of 18,000 spectators. It is being built with the view of a relocated or expansion NHL franchise is put in Quebec City, though it is being funded regardless if one comes. It is also hoped that the arena can help Quebec City win a future Winter Olympic Games bid. It is expected to be built next to Colisée Pepsi, the current main arena in Quebec City. Current plans call for the Colisée to be maintained as a secondary venue following completion of the new building.

The arena will be similar in style to the Consol Energy Center, the home arena of the Pittsburgh Penguins, and will occupy approximately 64,000 square metres of space, down from the originally proposed 70,000 square metres. A television studio, valued at between C$30 million and C$40 million, will be constructed within the arena.

The arena will cost $400 million, and will be funded 50% by the city and 50% by the province. On March 1, 2011 Quebecor purchased the naming rights and management of the arena. The amount they will pay will depend whether an NHL team moves in, and is expected to be between $33 million and $63 million.

The New Quebec City Amphitheatre, also known as the Quebecor Arena, is a new multi-use indoor arena in Quebec City, Quebec that is currently in the planning stages. It will mainly be used for ice hockey, and other indoor sports, as well as music concerts. It is due to open in 2015 (coinciding with the expiration of the New York Islanders' lease on the obsolete Nassau Coliseum, a fact that has not been lost on Quebec hockey fans) and will have a capacity of 18,000 spectators. It is being built with the view of a relocated or expansion NHL franchise is put in Quebec City, though it is being funded regardless if one comes. It is also hoped that the arena can help Quebec City win a future Winter Olympic Games bid. It is expected to be built next to Colisée Pepsi, the current main arena in Quebec City. Current plans call for the Colisée to be maintained as a secondary venue following completion of the new building.

The arena will be similar in style to the Consol Energy Center, the home arena of the Pittsburgh Penguins, and will occupy approximately 64,000 square metres of space, down from the originally proposed 70,000 square metres. A television studio, valued at between C$30 million and C$40 million, will be constructed within the arena.

The arena will cost $400 million, and will be funded 50% by the city and 50% by the province. On March 1, 2011 Quebecor purchased the naming rights and management of the arena. The amount they will pay will depend whether an NHL team moves in, and is expected to be between $33 million and $63 million.

Good. This way Quebec can have the same venue setup like Vancouver, where Ice Hockey was played at GM Motors Place and the Figure Skating/Short Track played at the Pacific Coliseum.

A demolished Quebec Coliseum would have called for an alternative venue for said sports, as the proposed venue for 2002 (The Youth Pavilion) is deemed to small now and certainly in the proposed 2002 capacity of only 9,000. That venue can easily serve Ice Hockey II at 5,000 or Curling.

Pan American Stadium for the 2015 Pan American Games. The stadium will seat 22,000 for Canadian football, less than the CFL's stated minimum of 25,000; the league has not commented on the plans.First of all, that render was from the Hamilton Commonwealth Games bid and isn't correct. They haven't yet completed the bid process (it was delayed) among the three competing bidders. So we have no idea what the stadium will look like.

Secondly, I wish people would stop spreading this CFL 25000 minimum "rule". Montreal had under 20,000 for years and the league is well aware of what is happening in Hamilton.

So is the Hamilton stadium going to be the Pan Ams Stadium? Or will it be located in Toronto (as it should have been from the start)?

So is the Hamilton stadium going to be the Pan Ams Stadium? Or will it be located in Toronto (as it should have been from the start)?

The Stadium for Hamilton will only be a soccer (or football) stadium for the Pan Am games
Atheltics will be in Toronoto (at York University at a 10K stadium) and the opening ceremonies will be at SkyDome (yes I refuse to call it Rogers Centre)

First of all, that render was from the Hamilton Commonwealth Games bid and isn't correct. They haven't yet completed the bid process (it was delayed) among the three competing bidders. So we have no idea what the stadium will look like.

Secondly, I wish people would stop spreading this CFL 25000 minimum "rule". Montreal had under 20,000 for years and the league is well aware of what is happening in Hamilton.

Montreal is rumoured to have massive sponsorship funds, something I doubt Hamilton has, and average tickets to Montreal are way higher than any other team in te league. Given how hard the recession hit the Hamilton area, how much demand do you think there would be for season tickets costing more than $1000? Using Montreal as an example for other markets is a bit foolish in my opinion.

Unless the next media contract is significantly higher than the current, I think te 25k standard is a pretty accurate one. Hamilton's average attendance last year was around 23k, and from the way Hamilton's owner has been talking, they are still not profitable.

Hamilton's plans for the team's celebration of the final season at Ivor Wynne Stadium are sponsored by Tim Hortons and it doesn't get much bigger than that.

And it's no secret that the next TV contract will be significantly higher than the last (Cohon's looking to double). This would give each team an extra $2 million. It was a win win situation for the CFL and TSN when they hooked up. It's TSN's second most important property next to the NHL.

And again, I refer readers to Scott Mitchell's explanation of Hamilton's financial plans for the smaller stadium (http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=84127721&postcount=2151).

Secondly, I wish people would stop spreading this CFL 25000 minimum "rule". Montreal had under 20,000 for years and the league is well aware of what is happening in Hamilton.

That's true, but 25,000/game is seen as the level needed for a team to be profitable. More television revenue with the new contract might mean profitability for a while, but costs won't remain the same. The Tiger-Cats might find themselves in the negative in a few years as player salaries rise, etc. Without a wealthy owner like Bob Young, Hamilton might have trouble remaining solvent at 22,500. He might not always be there. Hamilton attendance has hovered in the 22,000-24,000 range for quite a while with the Labour Day game typically being a sell out at 30,000.

I understand the need to keep supply slightly lower than demand, but 22,500 might be a little too small over the long term. Turning away 7,500+ fans away for some games is quite a lot for a team like the Tiger-Cats. 22,500 is also 25% smaller than the current stadium capacity. That's a huge difference.

First of all, that render was from the Hamilton Commonwealth Games bid and isn't correct. They haven't yet completed the bid process (it was delayed) among the three competing bidders. So we have no idea what the stadium will look like.

Secondly, I wish people would stop spreading this CFL 25000 minimum "rule". Montreal had under 20,000 for years and the league is well aware of what is happening in Hamilton.

It's the 2015 Pan American games not the Commonwealth games and they already won the bid.

And yes the stadium is proposed the location still is not decided yet but Hamilton will be getting a new stadium and this is the closest render to the new one yet.

It's the 2015 Pan American games not the Commonwealth games and they already won the bid.

And yes the stadium is proposed the location still is not decided yet but Hamilton will be getting a new stadium and this is the closest render to the new one yet.I don't think you are understanding what we are talking about. The bid process is for the contractor who will build the stadium and the design. That render is useless as the design hasn't been decided yet. That drawing was one of those proposed for Hamilton's failed Commonwealth Games bid from years ago.

Not sure why you are saying the location hasn't been decided. They're going to tear down Ivor Wynne turn it 90 degrees and rebuild on the same site. Go back and read some of the posted news stories in this thread.

I understand the need to keep supply slightly lower than demand, but 22,500 might be a little too small over the long term. Turning away 7,500+ fans away for some games is quite a lot for a team like the Tiger-Cats. 22,500 is also 25% smaller than the current stadium capacity. That's a huge difference.I think people are misunderstanding what I mean by objecting to the 25,000 "rule" The confusion seems to be in the difference between stadium size and audience. What I am saying is there has never been a "rule" stating that a stadium has to have 25,000 seats. What others are confusing that with is the notion that you need 25,000 spectators to be profitable.

In years past, 24,000 was seen as the magic number to keep in the black. But because the CFL was and is such a gate driven league, you needed that number.

isaidso you make a good point about rising costs but revenue streams for teams are so much larger now. Does anybody remember the bad old days of the CFN TV contract (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Football_Network)? Revenues from increased sponsorships, TV, private boxes, merchandise, new media are higher than they've ever been.

Speaking of the CFN contract, that Wikipedia article seems to remember things a little differently than I do. It says CFN was critically acclaimed, credited for raising the production quality of CFL telecasts (which were sorely lacking in the mid- to late-1980s) to near NFL levels. I don't remember it that way at all. And this is coming from a former TV production guy.

Also there is nothing written in stone about the 22,500 seat Hamilton stadium. Infrastructure Ontario will deliver a 22.500 seat stadium. There is nothing stopping the City of Hamilton or the Ti-Cats from adding to it. Scott Mitchell has stated this many times.

Revenues from increased sponsorships, TV, private boxes, merchandise, new media are higher than they've ever been.Speaking of which, Winnipeg Blue Bombers are proud to announce the launch of the Winnipeg Blue Bomber Scratch Lottery (http://bluebombers.com/article/winnipeg-blue-bombers-launch-cfls-first-scratch-lottery-program) in partnership with Manitoba Lotteries and in association with Western Canada Lottery Corporation, Pollard Banknote Limited and Splashdot, a provider of online loyalty programs.

Things are a lot different than they were 20 years ago.

I agree that there has never been a 25,000 minimum seat rule. I also agree that the CFL's financial position is getting much stronger and becoming less gate dependent. That said, we don't want to build so small that we're stuck with facilities that might not be economical just 10-15 years from now. Who knows what will happen that far in the future.

Optics are also very important in the CFL where we have big cities like Toronto viewing the Reginas of this world as minor league. The league needs to be sensitive to the delicate balance between looking major league, yet structured so smaller market teams are viable.

It may seem strange considering Toronto has the smallest attendance in the league, but the bigger league these Winnipeg or Regina stadia look, the easier job we'll have in selling the product in the big 3 markets. Hamilton building a stadium that looks too minor league doesn't help market the product in Toronto.

Hamilton may not see that as their problem, but the health of the Argonauts is crucial to the health of the league. It just is.

Just a few comments. I don't have an issue with small stadium size. Look at Fenway Park as an example. There are other revenue sources aside from the gate to make it one of the most profitable franchises in MLB as compared to other teams in larger facilities.

If things get to the point where small stadium capacity becomes an issue then that is a pretty good problem to have. That means there are revenues available for a solution. But why take the chance of empty seats now.

<Toronto rant on>. I think Toronto is bush league not Regina. Fifteen thousand fans in a 50,000 seat stadium, now that's bush league. Toronto just doesn't get it. American wannabees begging for an NFL franchise that some sucker will have to cough up 2 billion for and take 20 years to be able to show a return. They just want to head to the front of the line without earning the right. Toronto thinks it has a divine right to get an NFL franchise even though the Bills experiment was a bust. They want to be gifted the Olympics but they probably won't turn out to support the Pan Ams, as they see it is beneath them.

There is a thirst again in this country to embrace everything Canadian. We all saw what happened at the Vancouver Olympics. People are proud to sing the anthem again, that didn't happen 20 years ago and I don't know if Toronto gets that.

Montreal learned some hard lessons and to embrace what they had. They lost the Expos and seemed to then clue into the fact that maybe they're not such a worldly city as they imagined. When I was growing up they were the primary city in Canada, in less than 30 years they are what... third?

Toronto stands to risk losing a 139 year old franchise with not a care. They don't support our National soccer team very well despite the fact they are gifted most of the games and are rewarded for poor attendance. If they can't sell out a 20,000 seat stadium in a market of 5 million for an occasional NT game, that is a disgrace.

Hamilton has enough money to build a little jewel. Doesn't matter how big it is if it has some character. It becomes iconic like Ivor Wynne before it.

I really don't know how crucial Toronto is to the league. Many people have said that but the team couldn't have a lower profile there than it does now. Demographics from our latest census are showing change. It's "Go west young man" and the west is the heart of the CFL.

Toronto is the media centre but new technologies are making location obsolete. Read Mark Cuban for his thoughts on his franchise's audience and how he measures it. It's not just Dallas, I can just as easily buy a Mavs jersey or view a Mavs game in Anywhere Canada as opposed to Dallas. The dollar sees no borders.<Toronto rant off>

Btw, being worldly doesn't mean you equate your own culture with 2nd rate. Do New Yorkers look down upon baseball because its north American? Do Londoners look down upon soccer because its British? Being worldly means you're confident in your own culture and embrace it. Toronto ditching anything that's Canadian is a sign of insecurity not maturity.



<Toronto rant on>. I think Toronto is bush league not Regina. Fifteen thousand fans in a 50,000 seat stadium, now that's bush league. Toronto just doesn't get it.

I think Toronto is bush league too, but if we're really interested in resuscitating football in Toronto there's little point in pretending that these perceptions don't exist. The only solution is to accept them regardless of how irritating they are, and work to erase that perception.


I really don't know how crucial Toronto is to the league. Many people have said that but the team couldn't have a lower profile there than it does now. Demographics from our latest census are showing change. It's "Go west young man" and the west is the heart of the CFL.


The west is definitely the football heartland, but the west isn't big enough to keep the league viable by itself. The east is necessary. If Toronto goes, so will Hamilton and now you're left with just the Alouettes and Blue Bombers in the Eastern Conference. That's not going to work.

I'd love a situation like exists in Australia where Melbourne is big and strong enough to basically carry the entire AFL. We don't have that luxury in Canada. If the West had 10 teams pulling in 38,000 each that would be a different story, but we don't.

I also think you're selling Quebec and the Maritimes short. Beyond Montreal, this part of the country is a bit of an unknown football quantity. Just because they don't have a CFL team doesn't mean its not fertile football territory. Football is a very big sport from Quebec City to Moncton to Halifax.

Laval pull in over 18,000 fans for college football, some New Brunswick high schools pull in 3,000+/game while Nova Scotia supports 3 college football teams yet has a population smaller than Edmonton. If we're really to build a strong national league that can prosper without Toronto, Quebec City and the Maritimes must enter the league.

Whether of not Toronto is interested in Canadian institutions like football is still up in the air; this is a 52% foreign born city after all. Football, baseball, even hockey are foreign to many of them. The reality is that till the CFL can stand on its own feet without Toronto, Toronto needs to be part of the equation. That's just how it is.

Toronto is the media centre but new technologies are making location obsolete. Read Mark Cuban for his thoughts on his franchise's audience and how he measures it. It's not just Dallas, I can just as easily buy a Mavs jersey or view a Mavs game in Anywhere Canada as opposed to Dallas. The dollar sees no borders.<Toronto rant off>

Nonsense. You can buy all the Mavs gear you want and become their number one forum user or whatever, but nothing replicates being in the market of a team, listening to people talk about them on the radio during the drive to work, talking to your co-workers about them, going out and watching a game with other fans. In a huge market like NY you multiply this factor by ten. There's nothing like the buzz when the Knicks are hot. On a smaller level the Leafs are Canada's version of this.

INVESTORS GROUP FIELD, Winnipeg

http://adams.uploads.s3.amazonaws.com/wpg/images/photo_gallery/2012/05/crop_18361372704.jpg

http://adams.uploads.s3.amazonaws.com/wpg/images/photo_gallery/2012/05/crop_18361292709.jpg

Courtesy of the Winnipeg Blue Bombers Football Club and the Canadian Football League

The west is definitely the football heartland, but the west isn't big enough to keep the league viable by itself. The east is necessary. If Toronto goes, so will Hamilton and now you're left with just the Alouettes and Blue Bombers in the Eastern Conference. That's not going to work.

I also think you're selling Quebec and the Maritimes short. Beyond Montreal, this part of the country is a bit of an unknown football quantity. Just because they don't have a CFL team doesn't mean its not fertile football territory. Football is a very big sport from Quebec City to Moncton to Halifax.

If we're really to build a strong national league that can prosper without Toronto, Quebec City and the Maritimes must enter the league.

Toronto needs to be part of the equation. That's just how it is.I think we're on the same page here, we're just reading different paragraphs. The population is shifting westwards, Toronto will be declining in importance, I see it everyday with workers flying west, and the census is telling us this also. The league could survive without Toronto, albeit weaker without other eastern markets.

I don't see how Toronto and Hamilton are connected if Toronto fails.

I am definitely not selling the East short and didn't suggest that. I live in the east, have lived in both Halifax and Moncton and know the area very well. Moncton and Halifax have done a role reversal in the last ten years or so. Whereas Moncton is very aggressive and progressive now and Halifax seems stagnant, it was the exact opposite in the past.

But knowing Moncton as well as I do I just don't think over the long term it can support a franchise. If it was properly marketed as an Atlantic franchise it might have a chance but historically the one way traffic always went Halifax's way. The market area for Moncton is NB, PEI and possibly northern NS. If they could change attitudes and get people from Halifax to do the 2.5 hour drive, it could work, but I have my doubts.

Also there is no money for a Moncton franchise. Commish Cohon has an advisory council of area business people. None of the big players have any interest, Irvings, McCains et al.

And you also have the problem of even if you were able to get a franchise who would buy it if an original owner gave up. To use Toronto as an example, of the many people who could afford to do it, no one wanted to, until Braley saved the day. In the Moncton situation there aren't that many people with the resources let alone the will.

Nonsense. You can buy all the Mavs gear you want and become their number one forum user or whatever, but nothing replicates being in the market of a team, listening to people talk about them on the radio during the drive to work, talking to your co-workers about them, going out and watching a game with other fans. In a huge market like NY you multiply this factor by ten. There's nothing like the buzz when the Knicks are hot. On a smaller level the Leafs are Canada's version of this.You're looking at this from a fan's point of view not an owner's. An owner could care less about the fans unless it impacts their bottom line. And I am not saying this as an uneducated rant against big business. They are in business to make money. And yes, part of that is to keep the fans engaged.

Mark Cuban measures ratings not in the US or the Dallas market but in all eyeballs that are seeing his team via traditional or new technologies. They could be in Mexico City, Munich, Montreal, or Moscow it doesn't matter where and it doesn't matter how, it's not just about Nielson TV ratings or local markets anymore.

I know the 'electronic footprint' is corporate speak du jour. It's a minor factor that does not trump the realities of minor markets. Major markets are always going to rule for a number of reasons.

And Dallas is one, by the way. DFW is larger and richer than any Canadian metro.

DFW is larger and richer than any Canadian metro.That's the second time you've referenced that. We're very happy for you but I'm still not sure what that means to the discussion.

No, it isn't.

Tks to fuzzx at Big Soccer for headsup

Olympic Stadium The second stage of life (http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2012/03/07/la-2e-vie-du-stade)
Martine Turenne Le Journal de Montreal March 7, 2012
Translated from French

The new leader of the RIO (La Régie des installations olympiques), David Heurtel, is not like his predecessors. Young (40 years), dynamic, and formerly involved with the Just for Laughs Festival, he has big plans to revitalize the Olympic Stadium, deserted in recent years.

"David Heurtel represents a new generation, says the chairman of the Board of Trade of Metropolitan Montreal, Michel Leblanc. He no longer feels connected with the original purpose, no longer lives in the past."

Mr. Heurtel and his new team are under no illusions. "We must do something to revive this place. The past was difficult, (we're) looking ahead," said the CEO, in his office overlooking the Esplanade Sun Life Financial, a private first foray. And not the last: the Tower, the sports center and stadium itself could change its name.

Everything is now on the table.

The roof

David Heurtel first wants to settle the question of the stadium roof, failing this, he said, the stadium is sentenced to be underused.

http://i45.tinypic.com/imoute.jpg

Retractable or fixed, rigid or flexible, (we want) a functional roof, full stop. "We want it to be decided this year," he said. A stadium with a roof would make it usable year round. And no roof? "We discussed this possibility. We already know that experience. It is not profitable." He is not willing to give up on four months of activities per year.

Michel Leblanc either. "Montreal needs an exhibition center of international caliber. Several large fairs can not come here for lack of suitable place for them. The stadium would be one. Fairs, in addition to sporting events and concert tours do not stop long in the stadium. And not just because it is not wintered, Michel Leblanc knows that.

Configuration adapted

That's why David Heurtel has up his sleeve a new card: a suitable configuration. One that's able to reduce the space to 35,000 or 8,000 seats, as required, and thereby lower operating costs of the stadium, which is now prohibitive (up to $65,000 for a weekend). This would allow a multi-functional purpose.

"With a more flexible configuration, we certainly could use the stadium more," said Nick Farkas, vice president, concerts and events.

Big tours in stadiums, he said, are increasingly rare. Artists prefer smaller spaces. Configurations of 35,000 seats would promote better moods. And sound, which some find so terrible at the stadium? "The technology has improved and continues to evolve."

In the mid-2000s, the CEO of RIO participated, as a marketing manager, to revive a deserted park, the Seattle Center, built for World Expo 1962. That park now attracts 12 million visitors annually.

David Heurtel would love to do the same with the Olympic Park. "Everything is now possible," he said.

Olympic Stadium The second stage of life (http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2012/03/07/la-2e-vie-du-stade)
Martine Turenne Le Journal de Montreal March 7, 2012
Translated from French

One roof, four choices

Fixed or retractable, flexible or rigid: These are the four ingredients that will be part of the recipe for the next Olympic Stadium roof. The cost will be between $150 million and $500 million, depending on the materials and options selected.

The current roof is ripped and no longer functional. The retractable roof was obviously popular. "Without the roof, it becomes a warehouse," says Raymond Cyr, a retired engineer of the City of Montreal, employed for years at the stadium. "It is limited to exhibitions, because sporting events prefer open stadiums."

An open roof is even required to accommodate sporting events such as athletics or international soccer matches.

The CEO of the RIO, David Heurtel says FIFA (soccer) will allow a closed roof as Canada hosts the Women's World Cup in 2015 and Montreal is one of the chosen hosts. "The retractable roof is more expensive, but engineer Raymond Cyr ensures that the gap has narrowed.

http://i45.tinypic.com/2wnmq00.jpg

The other problem: technology.

The president of the Association of Architects, André Bourassa, is prudent regarding the retractable roof, "if I showed that today's techniques allow it, OK. But the weights are so large. It would require testing." Raymond Cyr says 37 stadiums have been recently built in the world with retractable roofs. "In the US there are eight. It is no longer a rash option."

And the fifth option: no roof at all?

After all, many European stadiums live without and some are located in cities with cold winters.

But this option is rejected by most stakeholders. First, it would not address the underutilization of the stadium. And equipment would deteriorate at the speed of light, explains engineer Roger Nicolet. "They would be exposed in the winter, which would require large investments."

Infrastructure Quebec will oversee the process of choosing the roof, now mandatory for projects of more than $40 million. "This is a highly controlled procedure, in three stages," said David Heurtel.

There are four aspects to consider, he says: respect for the entire architecture, cost including opportunity costs, the reliability of the facility, and feasibility.

The ultimate decision is up to Quebec.

Olympic Stadium The second stage of life (http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2012/03/07/la-2e-vie-du-stade)
Martine Turenne Le Journal de Montreal March 7, 2012
Translated from French

Shock therapy for the Olympic Park

"At Olympic Park, people do their stuff and then leave," said David Heurtel, the CEO of the RIO

Why would they stay?

Olympic Park is not a park. It is a sad place. It has extraordinary strengths (the Biodome, Insectarium, and Planetarium soon to be called The Living Space) and nearby, the Botanical Garden and Maisonneuve Park and the stadium itself, an architectural landmark. But we go and we quickly leave. No cafes, shopping, or entertainment ...

That's why, for several months, Lise Bissonnette has begun a consultation on the future Olympic Park, whose recommendations should be filed in late 2012.

Speakers from all walks of life, sports, cultural, tourist and economic have addressed this very problem and suggested all kinds of ideas, a massive greening of these places removal of concrete at the Rue Pierre-de- Coubertin in place of restaurants, and terraces.

"Despite the undeniable advantages, including two underground stations and one near the city center, was a chronic inability to put value in this park" says Sylvain Lefebvre, Director of GREF, the Research Group on festive spaces, at the University of Quebec at Montreal (UQAM).

He conducted a study on the development of Olympic Park. He also visited parks in successful conversions, such as Federation Park, Australia and the Parc de la Villette, France. "You have green space, and create business, opening the door to private investors. The park must have a power of attraction and more importantly, retention. The stadium will become an interesting place when what is around becomes interesting."

This conversion will take time. Ms. Bissonnette's recommendations could be spread over 10 or 15 years.

David Heurtel, meanwhile, wants to get things moving now. There will be recreational and cultural activities on the Esplanade Sun Life Financial in the spring.

"By 2016, the 40th anniversary of the Montreal Olympic Games, we want to be a reference in terms of urban parks."

A first step: the revitalization of the Tower (with a budget of $5 million). And in 2013, opening a gourmet restaurant at its base. Three other cafes/restaurants will be added, and other projects under consideration, are a community garden, skating rinks, fountains, etc..

By March, the Tower will be open Friday and Saturday nights, and in June, every night. "It moves," says David Heurtel.

And Dallas is one, by the way. DFW is larger and richer than any Canadian metro.

DFW is bigger than Toronto in area, but not population. You can't compare DFW to the Toronto CMA. The CMA is a tiny catchment area in comparison to what DFW is counting. The Toronto figures are for 2011 not 2010, but even with the smaller catchment areas I've shown, Toronto is still considerably more populous.


Dallas-Ft. Worth MSA: 24,059 km2 and 6,371,773 in 2010
Inner Golden Horseshoe: 10,097 km2 and 7,005,486 in 2011

Dallas-Ft. Worth CSA: 37,890 km2 and 6,731,317 in 2010
Total Golden Horseshoe: 31,561 km2 and 8,759,312 people in 2011



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas–Fort_Worth_metroplex
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Horseshoe

Just a few comments. I don't have an issue with small stadium size. Look at Fenway Park as an example. There are other revenue sources aside from the gate to make it one of the most profitable franchises in MLB as compared to other teams in larger facilities.

If things get to the point where small stadium capacity becomes an issue then that is a pretty good problem to have. That means there are revenues available for a solution. But why take the chance of empty seats now.

<Toronto rant on>. I think Toronto is bush league not Regina. Fifteen thousand fans in a 50,000 seat stadium, now that's bush league. Toronto just doesn't get it. American wannabees begging for an NFL franchise that some sucker will have to cough up 2 billion for and take 20 years to be able to show a return. They just want to head to the front of the line without earning the right. Toronto thinks it has a divine right to get an NFL franchise even though the Bills experiment was a bust. They want to be gifted the Olympics but they probably won't turn out to support the Pan Ams, as they see it is beneath them.

There is a thirst again in this country to embrace everything Canadian. We all saw what happened at the Vancouver Olympics. People are proud to sing the anthem again, that didn't happen 20 years ago and I don't know if Toronto gets that.

Montreal learned some hard lessons and to embrace what they had. They lost the Expos and seemed to then clue into the fact that maybe they're not such a worldly city as they imagined. When I was growing up they were the primary city in Canada, in less than 30 years they are what... third?

Toronto stands to risk losing a 139 year old franchise with not a care. They don't support our National soccer team very well despite the fact they are gifted most of the games and are rewarded for poor attendance. If they can't sell out a 20,000 seat stadium in a market of 5 million for an occasional NT game, that is a disgrace.

Hamilton has enough money to build a little jewel. Doesn't matter how big it is if it has some character. It becomes iconic like Ivor Wynne before it.

I really don't know how crucial Toronto is to the league. Many people have said that but the team couldn't have a lower profile there than it does now. Demographics from our latest census are showing change. It's "Go west young man" and the west is the heart of the CFL.

Toronto is the media centre but new technologies are making location obsolete. Read Mark Cuban for his thoughts on his franchise's audience and how he measures it. It's not just Dallas, I can just as easily buy a Mavs jersey or view a Mavs game in Anywhere Canada as opposed to Dallas. The dollar sees no borders.<Toronto rant off>

Toronto needs their sports teams to perform better first then you will see higher attendances. They have potential. Leafs not making the playoffs in how long... (they still get good attendance btw) the bad play of the raptors over the years besides when they had Vince Carter when he was good. Toronto FC haven't made the playoffs in since inception and their horrible start to this year. The Rock gets good attendance and are defending champions (not a major sport but still noted). The Jays have not been good since the championship wins in 92 and 93. (They used to almost sell out every night when they where really good and are showing good this year) And the Argos, well they are not a major league. They need their major leagues to perform better. Period. Then it will be a ripple effect across the city especially for the Argos.

And the Argos, well they are not a major league.That's true, they fit perfectly with all the other minor league loser franchises Toronto has.

Montreal is rumoured to have massive sponsorship funds, something I doubt Hamilton has, and average tickets to Montreal are way higher than any other team in te league. Using Montreal as an example for other markets is a bit foolish in my opinion. According to Herb Zurkowsky of the Montreal Gazette, (http://www.montrealgazette.com/sports/Lalonde+ultimate+team+eroding+bottom+line/6609241/story.html) Ray Lalonde was pushed out as president of the Alouettes because season-ticket numbers had dropped from 18,000 to just above 14,000 and sponsorship figures had dipped significantly. Seems the model CFL franchise isn’t so much the model these days.

That's true, they fit perfectly with all the other minor league loser franchises Toronto has.Ok, I'm kidding, the moronic CFL minor league post peed me off. For those born after 1980 when the sporting landscape started to change, here's how it was with the Argos (and could be again)

TSN celebrates 100th Grey Cup with documentary series (http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=395049)
TSN.ca staff 5/4/2012

On Friday at the Hot Docs International Film Festival, TSN unveiled the slate of films in its ambitious original documentary series, Engraved On A Nation: Stories of The Grey Cup, The CFL and Canada. Commissioned by Bell Media, Engraved On A Nation celebrates the 100th Grey Cup with eight original documentaries demonstrating how the Grey Cup has become such an intrinsic part of Canadian heritage.

Engraved On A Nation will air on TSN, CTV, and in French on RDS beginning in September.

The individuals involved in Engraved On A Nation are among Canada's most accomplished and respected documentary filmmakers. The filmmakers and the working titles of their documentaries are:
• Manfred Becker – The Photograph: 1942 RCAF Hurricanes
• Christie Callan-Jones – Mavericks: The Story of the 1971 Argos
• Paul Cowan – The Crash of Flight 810
• Barry Greenwald – Western Swagger
• Charles Officer – The Chuck Ealey Story
• Shelley Saywell – The Anthony Calvillo Story
• John Walker – Grey Cup 1969 and the FLQ
• Larry Weinstein – The 13th Man

"Engraved On A Nation is a project unlike anything we have ever tackled at TSN. As long-time partners of the CFL, we felt the 100th Grey Cup was the perfect opportunity to show Canadians how the Grey Cup has transcended sports and left an indelible mark on Canada," said Stewart Johnston, President, TSN. "To tell great stories has always been something that we've taken great pride in doing. This ambitious project is an extension of our storytelling philosophy as we weave tales about family, relationships, legacies, politics and culture around the remarkable role that the Grey Cup has played in shaping our national identity."

"By engaging the Canadian documentary film community, we've had the privilege of working with eight acclaimed filmmakers who, over a short period of time, have become custodians of the compelling stories that reflect our country's history and society through sport over the years," said Shawn Redmond, Vice-President, Programming, TSN. "Their passion and enthusiasm will make these human interest stories truly memorable – not just for football fans, but for all Canadians."

Below are summaries of the original documentaries with working titles that will air this fall on TSN:

Mavericks: The Story of the 1971 Argos
• Synopsis: It was a magical moment in time. Toronto was shedding its "Toronto the Good" image and coming alive both on and off the gridiron. Toronto Argos GM Leo Cahill had built a team of mavericks and renegades who embodied the wild spirit of the times. Leo wasn't just a coach, he was a showman, a director with a team that was just as crazy as he was. They were the team everyone loved to hate, but that just made them better. And, Toronto loved them. They reflected a city coming into its own. From the CN Tower to burgeoning multiculturalism, Toronto was developing confidence and attitude that matched that of its beloved football team. With the adoration of an entire metropolis behind them, the team make it to the Grey Cup – only to watch their championship dream all but fade away on a last-minute fumble.

• Director: Christie Callan-Jones is a multiple award-winning director. Her career highlights include winning a Silver Medal at the New York International Film and Video Festival and a Silver Hugo award at the Chicago Television Awards.

Rest of article including other doc synopses (http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=395049)
Documentary series trailer here (http://watch.tsn.ca/clip672414#clip672414)

CFL, TSN believe Grey Cup documentaries will light a fire (http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/05/05/cfl-tsn-believe-grey-cup-documentaries-will-light-a-fire/)
Scott Stinson May 5, 2012

Brian Williams stood on a riser in one of the many old stone-walled buildings that dot the University of Toronto’s downtown campus and talked a bit about Chuck Ealey.

Ealey was an undefeated U.S. college quarterback — 35-0 at the University of Toledo — but when his college career ended 40 years ago, there were no job offers from the National Football League. Ealey is black. He came to Canada, winning a Grey Cup with the Hamilton Tiger-Cats, striking a blow for civil rights and paving the way for everyone from Warren Moon to Robert Griffin III.

Filmmaker Charles Officer put it this way: “Chuck Ealey had to come to Canada to fulfill the American dream.” And he stayed here.

Williams, the TSN broadcaster, was telling old CFL war-horse stories on an early spring afternoon not just because he likes telling them, though he clearly does, but as part of the launch of an ambitious project by TSN and its parent, BellMedia. As part of the celebrations to mark the 100th Grey Cup game, taking place in Toronto in November, the broadcaster has commissioned eight documentaries, each a story in some way intertwined with the CFL’s title game, which will air beginning in September under the collective title Engraved on a Nation.

“These are the stories of the Grey Cup,” said CFL commissioner Mark Cohon, smiling even more than usual, which is a lot. He pointed to the Cup itself, sitting in front of him. “They are the stories of this holy grail.”

Stewart Johnston, president of TSN, still seemed frankly a bit surprised this idea had been approved. “This is a massive, massive undertaking,” he said. “It’s unlike anything we’ve ever done.”

But it is much something that has been done, and with great success, by TSN’s corporate brethren in the States, ESPN. That network’s 30 for 30 documentary series, a group of films commissioned to note the broadcaster’s 30th anniversary last year, included contributions from filmmakers as diverse as Barry Levinson, Peter Berg and Steve Nash. Many were good and some were fascinating — as compelling as anything on television, no matter the subject.

And so, TSN is taking a crack at emulating that success, thanks to an investment from Bell and a CRTC-mandated fund that has been set aside to develop Canadian programming. As with 30 for 30, the TSN films use sports as a backdrop but tell stories that go beyond the playing field.

There is Ealey’s ground-breaking trip north. There is Anthony Calvillo, leaving the gangland of East L.A. — “to call his family dysfunctional would be a compliment,” Williams said Friday — to become the most prolific passer in league history. There is the 1969 Grey Cup, played in Montreal at the height of the FLQ crisis; director John Walker says the on-call bomb diffuser was one of his interview subjects. And there is the story of the 1942 Grey Cup winners, a team of servicemen called the RCAF Hurricanes. Most went overseas soon after their victory, and half of them died. One of those who stayed in Canada, Jake Gaudaur, became the CFL commissioner.

The preview for Engraved on a Nation makes one thing clear: heartstrings will be tugged.

The filmmakers, not necessarily football people, to a person expressed some degree of wonder at the stories they have been tasked to tell. Given that the assembled documentarists have among them nominations for Emmys, Geminis, Genies, Hugos, Oscars and Palme d’Ors, the films they produce should be appointment viewing. It is a bold play for TSN and for the league. In that sense, it is quite in keeping with the decision to put the 100th Grey Cup in Toronto. This is, CFL officials acknowledge, going to be a huge year for the league, and for the team that plays in its largest market.

Last week, Mr. Cohon visited the offices of National Post along with Chris Rudge, the newly installed president and CEO of the Toronto Argonauts. The commissioner talked up the league’s many successes — hugely increased television ratings thanks in part to the machinery of TSN, and profitable franchises in six of its eight markets. The two stragglers? Hamilton, with possible blue skies ahead as a result of a new stadium, and Toronto, the league’s toughest nut to crack.

Between the trade for star quarterback Ricky Ray in the off-season and the plans for a huge 10-day Grey Cup festival in advance of the game, Rudge says the team is looking at this season as a chance to make major headway in the market.

“It’s not going to be a panacea,” he says, “but we have to seize the opportunity. We can’t blow this chance.” He talks of his last job, heading the Canadian Olympic Committee through the 2010 Games in Vancouver before being brought to Toronto by Argos owner David Braley. He says those Winter Games “caught lightning in a bottle.” He wants to do that, on a smaller scale, with the festivities around the 100th Grey Cup.

It will take more than a party, he admits. More than one good season, too. “It’s about building a dynastic franchise.”

It’s there, plainly, where the opportunity lies. You may have heard something about the major franchises operated by Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment, which are in various stages of stinking. The non-MLSE-owned Blue Jays have a strong pulse, but attendance lags as it always does in the spring. Plus, baseball is a long season, with a lot of games. As Rudge notes, the Argos have only nine home games. How hard should it be to get 40,000 people — out of five million residents — out to nine bloody games? I’m not so good with numbers, but am pretty sure that’s a low percentage.

For a market so desperate for a winner that is has forgotten what winning is, the Argos have been given a couple great seal blocks and have clear path to the end zone. TSN’s film project looks to be in good hands. As for the team that stands to benefit the most if it succeeds in drumming up interest in the sport? It lacks one advantage the filmmakers have: the Argos still have to play the games.

The Argos need a new stadium to change things. Part of the bad image of the argos is the fact every game is played in a cavernous concrete hole that's impossible to fill. The idea of it being not worth watching is self perpetuated by the image people see. You need the artificial scarcity to drive demand and popularity. It makes it something people want to be a part of. If they could somehow get a 22,000 version of the Winnipeg Stadium constructed somewhere downtown I guarantee the Argos relevance would see an upswing

^^ Agree. It's so deflating going to a stadium built for baseball that's only 35% full. I do think 22,000 is too small and we're experiencing the absolute bottom. This is a team that was pulling in 46,000/game when Toronto only had 2.5 million people. The Argonauts need something like what the MLS team has. It would be ideal if it could be built as a 30,000 seat sunken bowl with tons of space left around the stadium so that a second tier could be constructed easily if needed.

And the Argos, well they are not a major league. They need their major leagues to perform better. Period. Then it will be a ripple effect across the city especially for the Argos.

Yes, recently the Argonauts have been an embarrassment to the league. 20,000/game is only a little more than Université Laval pull in. Hopefully, they can turn things around this Grey Cup host year and show that Toronto deserves a team in the CFL. It's shocking how far this once proud franchise has fallen.

^^ Agree. It's so deflating going to a stadium built for baseball that's only 35% full. I do think 22,000 is too small and we're experiencing the absolute bottom. This is a team that was pulling in 46,000/game when Toronto only had 2.5 million people. The Argonauts need something like what the MLS team has. It would be ideal if it could be built as a 30,000 seat sunken bowl with tons of space left around the stadium so that a second tier could be constructed easily if needed.



Yes, recently the Argonauts have been an embarrassment to the league. 20,000/game is only a little more than Université Laval pull in. Hopefully, they can turn things around this Grey Cup host year and show that Toronto deserves a team in the CFL. It's shocking how far this once proud franchise has fallen.

I think it says a lot about the CFL when Toronto's regular season average attendance of around 20,000 per game is considered an embarrassment. Major League Soccer is the up and coming league packed with passionate fans, but the Argos outdraw every team in MLS except Seattle and Los Angeles (Vancouver Whitecaps and Toronto FC draw about the same as the Argos). More football fans go to games in Toronto than soccer fans go to matches in New York, Philadelphia, Chicago........ All the Argos need are some winning seasons they will be just fine. A new stadium at Woodbine wouldn't hurt either.

The wildly fluctuating yearly Argo attendance figures (http://argonauts.ca/page/home-attendance)

I think it says a lot about the CFL when Toronto's regular season average attendance of around 20,000 per game is considered an embarrassment. Major League Soccer is the up and coming league packed with passionate fans, but the Argos outdraw every team in MLS except Seattle and Los Angeles (Vancouver Whitecaps and Toronto FC draw about the same as the Argos). More football fans go to games in Toronto than soccer fans go to matches in New York, Philadelphia, Chicago........ All the Argos need are some winning seasons they will be just fine. A new stadium at Woodbine wouldn't hurt either.

Valid points. 20,000/game is good compared to MLS, but football is a home grown sport that's been around for 140+ years. 20,000 in our biggest city isn't good and ranks dead last in the CFL. That said, the CFL is doing really well of late. Average attendance is on the up swing and television numbers often beat hockey. That's quite a feat in hockey mad Canada.

Investors Group Field construction photos from the week of May 14 to 18 (http://www.bluebombers.com/photo_gallery/gallery/id/6825)

Regina domed stadium idea not quite dead yet

Global Evening News May 15 - Dome stadium ideas (http://www.globalsaskatoon.com/video/dome+stadium+ideas/video.html?v=2235534496#top+stories)

The idea of a domed stadium in Regina is still being debated, as new ideas on potential funding are discussed. Sarah Richter reports.