Interesting snippet in the "On The Street" section of Crain's today.

It appears that as with The Northern Quarter, Peters Fields, Millenium Quarter etc etc another area of the city is about to get a rebrand. The near part of Cheetham Hill (the industrial area perched behind the Arena and adjacent to The Green Quarter as opposed to the residential area further up the road) is to be rebranded as either The Warehouse District or City Fringe.

The article is a little vague on who is doing the rebrand and why, but it's an interesting idea. I lived opposite Red Bank for five years and often used to cut through this area to pick up the morning papers and bagels (or for the odd late night dodgy game of snooker - that's not a euphemism) and it always struck me as having a bit of a character and a strange sort of potential to it.

My question to you good people - besides who is doing the rebrand, why and whether we think it's any good - is what could the future hold for this area. It's always going to have the prison at the centre of it, but it is supremely convinient for the city centre and there is plenty of land for redevlopment and a handful of nice old buildings to work with (not least where Saffron restaurant is/was).

I have actually always liked the layout of streets in the area and the open "big city" feel of the main drag, Cheetham Hill Road (with it's great aspect of the CIS and the centre proper it's my favourite approach to town). Other highlights include the Queens pub (if of course it is still any good - it used to be...) and the Jewish Museum, and indeed the multicultural heritage is part of what gives the area a buzz. Proximity to a finished (and hopefully full) Green Quarter plus the planned redevelopment of Boddingtons won't hurt either.

And can I stress this flight of fancy should be considered apart and separate to the current credit crunch/end of the world economy as we know it. It'll be tough enough to finish The Green Quarter, New Islington, First Street and all the other schemes which are already underway without ploughing into these uncharted waters! Maybe we can get the ball rolling now for something to kick off when there is a hopeful upturn in three to five years?

Cheers

Thom

It's interesting (to me) that the subject of this area should come up now; I was there only last week and thought it'd be good to photograph some of the more robust Victorian buildings, amidst the more low-grade 50s/60s light industrial crap.

Strangeways/Cheetham Hill is a bit of a no-man's land, there's no reason to go there unless you happen to work or be incarcerated there, yet the area is approximately the same size as the city centre. I'd like to see it develop more residentially in future, and maybe see the prison blown up, and replaced with a new facility out of sight (next door to Carrington refinery, or whatever it is).

It's interesting (to me) that the subject of this area should come up now; I was there only last week and thought it'd be good to photograph some of the more robust Victorian buildings, amidst the more low-grade 50s/60s light industrial crap.

Strangeways/Cheetham Hill is a bit of a no-man's land, there's no reason to go there unless you happen to work or be incarcerated there, yet the area is approximately the same size as the city centre. I'd like to see it develop more residentially in future, and maybe see the prison blown up, and replaced with a new facility out of sight (next door to Carrington refinery, or whatever it is).

I suspect the heritage lobby may (rightly) have something to say about that.

I helped to do a study of this area a few years ago with the long term aim of getting it designated as a conservation area.
There is a surprising amount of really interesting buildings round there - its just all the other buildings that prevent you from seeing the good stuff. Most of it is C20th.
The UDP has this as an industrial area and the idea of a conservation area was in some way to protect that ie not let house builders loose on it and destroying its character.

how about being honest and rebranding it 'the car theft district'.
i mean they have a box on a lamp post that has a motion sensor which triggers a loud speaker announcement saying something like 'beware! car theives operate in this area'.
however, the future for the area looks rosey, with development encircling the area.

I just liked it, rough as arseholes or not.

I liked the mix of businesses and the bustle and the feeling that it was (without wanting to end up in Private Eye's "Pseuds Corner") of the city whilst also being conversely very much separate and distinct. Obviously it is an intrinsic part of Manchester but it also seemed to have it's own self-contained ecosystem.

The fact it was all industrial but also had real pockets of character dotted about gave it a feel of the garment or meatpacking districts in New York. Well, at least before they got all gentrified and Pastis and Alexander McQueen moved in (plus the slutty one off Sex And The City).

A flagship Alexander McQueen Store in Cheetham Hill. That's possibly one of the most unlikely scenarios I've ever managed to conjure up,

More importantly it contained an excellent greasy spoon, a carwash where they didn't terminally abrade your paintwork or steal your CD's, an absolutely fantastic little Jewish back street bakers (now sadly no more I think) and also the route to the never less than interesting and delicious Titanic (Hyman's) deli.

Cheers

Thom

however, the future for the area looks rosey, with development encircling the area.

You say that as though its a good thing!

More to the point does anyone know who is actually behind the rebranding to which Crains alludes?

Simon Binns like's a good lurk around these forums, maybe he can shed some light on the matter?

I take it that if there was any sort of masterplan or feasibility study or whatever then someone on here would have heard about it long ago?

Ah well, you have to start somewhere I guess. Does the name maketh the neighborhood?

Cheers

Thom

I helped to do a study of this area a few years ago with the long term aim of getting it designated as a conservation area.
There is a surprising amount of really interesting buildings round there - its just all the other buildings that prevent you from seeing the good stuff. Most of it is C20th.
The UDP has this as an industrial area and the idea of a conservation area was in some way to protect that ie not let house builders loose on it and destroying its character.

Derby Street, and the area around the Edwardian Manchester Ice Palace are certainly well worth the effort of conservation. There are a number of good 20s/30s industrial buildings by Joseph Sunlight here too.

Derby Street, and the area around the Edwardian Manchester Ice Palace are certainly well worth the effort of conservation. There are a number of good 20s/30s industrial buildings by Joseph Sunlight here too.

Yep!
Lots of good sturdy Co-op stuff and the former M&S warehouse as well.
Beneath all the grime there are a few crackers. Lots of interesting turn-of-the- century philanthropic Jewish type stuff aswell plus a bit of Georgian thrown in for good measure. Great Festival of Britain-ish electricity sub station aswell!

I helped to do a study of this area a few years ago with the long term aim of getting it designated as a conservation area.
There is a surprising amount of really interesting buildings round there - its just all the other buildings that prevent you from seeing the good stuff. Most of it is C20th.
The UDP has this as an industrial area and the idea of a conservation area was in some way to protect that ie not let house builders loose on it and destroying its character.

Not necessarily talking about house builders, but as ThomH has said, it does have a feel of New York's garment and meatpacking districts, so diversification (and not gentrification!) would be good to see.

You say that as though its a good thing!

oh come on. irish world heritage centre to the north, green quarter to the south, faber street (if they ever get approval) residentials to the west, irk valley to the west.

you think that is a bad thing?

none of that is counter-productive to the desirability of area, unlike the retail park and the traveller camp!

oh come on. irish world heritage centre to the north, green quarter to the south, faber street (if they ever get approval) residentials to the west, irk valley to the west.

you think that is a bad thing?

Yes

none of that is counter-productive to the desirability of area, unlike the retail park and the traveller camp!

yes it is

no- the positives outweight the negatives.

you mistake this crap for 70s crap. people want to live in this crap unlike back then. they actually want to live in it over and above their wants to live in oldham. hence they cost a lot more (~£135k vs ~£90k).

you mistake this crap for 70s crap. people want to live in this crap unlike back then. they actually want to live in it over and above their wants to live in oldham. hence they cost a lot more (~£135k vs ~£90k).

We'll see eh?

We'll see eh?

yes and we'll see if the countryside becomes the slums of tomorrow when nobody can afford to drive to work anymore.

This is what Crain's was referring to...

http://www.manchester.gov.uk/downloads/7_Strangeways_Local_Plan.pdf

This is what Crain's was referring to...

http://www.manchester.gov.uk/downloads/7_Strangeways_Local_Plan.pdf

Nothing in that report about the historic fabric and architecture. :(

It does say this...:

Entitled City Centre North, the area is rich in natural, historic and cultural assets but contains large areas of neglected and underused land, which has an opportunity to be developed

It alludes to the fabric of the place, but it's an economic/employment/skills document only. You can tell by the way it also says....

7. ACTIONS - Creating a vibrant and sustainable employment-led destination

We've all read a million reports like this, and they're often padded out with complete dross!

The area we are talking about is more readily called Strangeways.

Is it me, but these bland, plastic re-branding of city districts are crass on one level and culturally offensive on the other.

And before you start I know these places have acquired different names over the years. I am sure there was a Welsh name for the place, before the Northumbrians turned up.

And yes I know that the Strangeways name came about because of the so called "strange ways" of the Jewish population of the time. Well thats whatt he legend says.

Unlike these bland re namings, at least this name change arose "organically" from what the locals had called it. Thats opposed to what some ad exec dreamt up, whilst bored in a meeting on a wet Wednesday afternoon.


Rant one over.:bash::banana:


Pissing myself at the idea that Strangeways with its prison will be re name Warehouse City.

More lIke Human Warehouse City more like.

Is it me, but these bland, plastic re-branding of city districts are crass on one level and culturally offensive on the other.

No, not just you, although the only one which really offends me is Eastlands. I wasn't too keen on South Central when that term was being casually thrown about, but renaming Strangeways as the City Fringe is complete crap, especially if it's re-branded with a crass logo.

There were some great names in Manchester, no longer heard....Knott Mill and New Cross etc...

:bash:

City fuckin fringe? What's wrong with these stupid idiots.
It's be some 21 year old arsewipe graduate from hertfordshire who's got a job in the town hall and knows fuck all about Manchester.

Pisses me off astronomically.

City fringe? "Maaaan, that Bar Fringe is like, so cool man? seriously"

Warehouse district. hmmmm, let me think. I wonder if the fuckin warehouse project had anything to do with that idea!
Pathetic.

I didn't realise Strangeways got its name via prejudice, and for one I've lost a bit of fondness for it now, but jesus, why change it.

Pardon my french.

Sorry to disappoint but Strangeways gets its name from Lord Strange aka Earl of Derby who owned this part of Manchester around the time of the civil war. Derby Street is also named after him.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story though eh?

This bloke?

James Stanley, 7th Earl of Derby KG (January 31, 1607 – October 15, 1651) was a supporter of the Royalist cause in the English Civil War.

Born at Knowsley, he is sometimes styled the Great Earl of Derby, eldest son of William Stanley, 6th Earl of Derby and Lady Elizabeth de Vere. During his father's life he was known as Lord Strange.

His paternal grandparents were Henry Stanley, 4th Earl of Derby and Lady Margaret Clifford. Margaret was a daughter of Henry Clifford, 2nd Earl of Cumberland and Lady Eleanor Brandon. Eleanor was the third child of Charles Brandon, 1st Duke of Suffolk and Mary Tudor. Mary was the fifth child of Henry VII of England and Elizabeth of York

A royalist aristocrat from Knowsley? WTF?!! That 21 year old arsewipe graduate from Herfordshire has gone up my estimations all of a sudden.

I think Strangeways is a great name, as it has history, it's synonomous with Manchester through the prison and the brewery, it has some colourful myth attached (vital for pub-based arguing) and it just sounds evocative. No way should it be lost for the beyond-bland "City Fringe".

As noted it's sad to see the loss of names like New Cross, Knott Mill, Smithfield etc but that's all part of the evolution of a city I guess. I actually don't mind "Warehouse District" for the relevent area as Cheetham Hill is too broad a district and this very specific area needs defining and, well, it's just a practical description isn't it? I like it's unpretentious, Ronseal like simplicity, it echos The Meatpacking District or the Garment District in New York.

New York is a funny one actually because although for me the patchwork of cleared defined neighbourhoods and the very distinct cultures and streetscape of each is one of my favourite things about the city they've also come up with some of the most shonkily constructed and contrived area names ever.

"SoHo" I'm guessing has some history (maybe echoing London's?) but it still stands for South Of Houston. Tribeca? Triangle Below Canal Street - The name works for me now but if I think of it's derivation I wince a little. Nolita - North of Little Italy; it shouldn't work, but it just sounds so poetic and exotic. Dumbo in Brooklyn - "Down Under Manhattan Bridge Overpass"; ok, I draw the line, that's a bit rich for me...

So personally I think it's a case of sticking with Strangeways for the area around the Brewery and then coming up with a plan for the Warehouse District which enhances the area without destroying it's character or removing it's fundamenal reason d'etre (how often have we heard that set of objectives before...). The rest of the names in that report are just a bit bobbins or pointless really I think.

Cheers

Thom

cheers longy

as i said the legend................

MENonline. There's a map of the proposed plans. I'll scan it later on.

Arresting plans for prison area
Exclusive: Deborah Linton
19/11/2008

STRANGEWAYS prison could soon be at the heart of a thriving business and cultural community under ambitious redevelopment plans.

An area stretching from the edge of Cheetham Hill down to Trinity Way - previously labelled Manchester's 'back door' because of its run-down appearance - could have new life breathed into it by the council-led scheme.

A 15-year masterplan would see a new riverside community on the banks of the Irwell, up-market restaurants and offices along Cheetham Hill Road and investment in the prison as a 'point of historic interest'.

Independent businesses forced out of the city centre by high rents will be given new office space around the site of the former Boddingtons brewery, which has also been earmarked for a new college.

The seven districts would include:

A 'riverside neighbourhood', with 'high-quality' housing and offices and a new waterside walkway along the Irwell.

A 'prison neighbourhood', with HMP Manchester promoted as a historic landmark.

A 'city fringe neighbourhood', to the south of the prison, with new office space and hotels, cafes, bars and restaurants, as well as the college.

'Cheetham Hill Corridor', running along Cheetham Hill Road, which would get new offices and restaurants to replace a number of 'underused and degraded' buildings.

A 'warehouse district', around the Joseph Holt Derby brewery, with buildings for wholesale suppliers and shared space for smaller firms.

A 'workshop village' on either side of Bury New Road, with upgraded office space for the textile, clothing and IT firms clustered there.

'Cheetham Fringe', just south of Elizabeth Street, with 'high-quality' family housing overlooking Cheetham Park.

Council bosses, who will discuss the plans at a meeting of the ruling executive, said the current economic crisis made it more important than ever to 'realise the potential' of under-performing areas.

Sir Richard Leese, leader of Manchester council, said: "The Strangeways area is well placed to become a key employment, cultural and learning destination in Manchester.

"This plan will guide investment and set priorities to ensure it flourishes instead of stagnating.

"The current economic climate reinforces the need for the city to have robust strategies to realise the potential of the city centre and surrounding areas."

Get that college built and maybe the rest of the developments will within time move further into Human Warehouse City.

Maybe I say.

Unless the cafes and erm bars are for the erm trakie bottomed ferals who visit their counterparts in HMP strangeways?

And yeah Longy, still howling at that erm member ship list.:banana::)

For me said list would find "sanctuary" in said "hotel."

As with pretty much all the inner-city, city-centre-fringe areas of the Manchester there is massive potential for linking this thriving city together and expanding the central area. Trouble is there's simply not enough middle class wallets to keep so many cafes, bars, restaurants in business. You can't just turn a community largely employed in warehouses, factories and minimum wage service jobs (not to mention the large number of unemployed) into free-spending, middle-class citizens. This will take decades and decades and more decades. But it will happen...

Here's some details,

http://www.manchester.gov.uk/downloads/7_Strangeways_Local_Plan.pdf

And a map,

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/530/d2jh6.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

as cities go Manchester is young, it sprouted up in the 18th century, flourished in the 19th, declined in the 20th and hopefully become a full blown metroplis in this century but it will take time..... hopefully the economic crisis will not halt this

Where their "city fringe" area is there used to be Strangeway's park, waay back. Knock all that shit down there and replant the park. Destroy the MEN A (!) - leading deansgate to our new park's entrance. Close the prison, knock some of it out, giving a sort of abbey in the park look. And Have the central area as an art center. With cool views down deansgat from the top.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/09/Map_of_Manchester_1801.PNG

^^ that's one fantastic ould map kids...

Love that map.

Spend plenty of time speculating how much of the "Georgian" city could have ben preserved before the explosion of industrialisation turned the city and Salford into a novelle hell.

Where - if we had a Haussmann or Gaudi - how the Victorian rich might have re fashioned the city. As opposed to buying mansions in Bournemouth.

Anyway, that idea of yours - kids - is a nice fantasy.

Sadly unlikely as the cost of buying all the land, which I believe from distant memory is a hotch potch of small pockets of tennants and landlords, would be costly and difficult (as was Ancoats)

Nevertheless a good idea.

as cities go Manchester is young, it sprouted up in the 18th century, flourished in the 19th, declined in the 20th and hopefully become a full blown metroplis in this century but it will take time..... hopefully the economic crisis will not halt this

Manchester may be a small/medium sized city by todays standards, back in the day however it was already a full blown mega metropolis, in 1900 it was the 9th most populous city on the enitre planet.

http://geography.about.com/library/weekly/aa011201f.htm

Manchester may be a small/medium sized city by todays standards, back in the day however it was already a full blown mega metropolis, in 1900 it was the 9th most populous city on the enitre planet.

http://geography.about.com/library/weekly/aa011201f.htm

Interesting that. I wonder if 'Manchester' meant from Hanging Ditch to All Saints or Heaton Park to Ringway,....or Billinge to Longendale.

It's an interesting plan all things considered, and it shows both how the council sees the city centre spreading (as a series of largely commercial driven growths in specific directions rather than throughout mixed use inner suburbs).

I think the development and success of high quality family housing at the north end of the district is dependent on Queens Road being turned into a proper tram stop. Does anyone know if this is actually part of 3a? Planning permission has been granted but it's still displayed on GMPTE materials as a 'possible station'.

Who the fuck renamed Shooters Brow to London Road? Shooters Brow is far cooler and sounds like it had a story behind it.

And look at the width of the River Medlock, east of brook street. That must all still be there, buried under the UMIST campus. I wonder if you could go through it on a raft.:happy:

Who the fuck renamed Shooters Brow to London Road? Shooters Brow is far cooler and sounds like it had a story behind it.

And look at the width of the River Medlock, east of brook street. That must all still be there, buried under the UMIST campus. I wonder if you could go through it on a raft.:happy:

When i was a kid the Medlock dried up to a virtual trickle one summer.
We followed a lot of it through town on a pallette but in some places it was so shallow and full of crap we had to walk it. We got covered in shit and we only had crappy little torches. Thinking back it was fucking madness but we were always doing stupid things when we were kids.
I think it has been gated over at one or both ends now though so i dont know if you can do it although i remember seeing some pics on 28dayslater of some dudes floating through it.