Great News!

http://www.propertywire.com/news/company-news/greece-top-place-2009-flight-centre-200811051986.html

...and imagine, next year will be presumably tough on our tourism industry because of the economic crisis. Yet, you get these distinctions which will for sure alleviate the many problems we may face in our economy next year.


...plus it is good to know that our country is getting more popular year after year :)

Great news Leafs, thanks for sharing :)

Good news. The competition among vacation spots keeps getting tougher, so articles like this help Greece a lot.

Two of my German business contacts just got back from vacations in Greece and they both raved about the value for the EURO compared to other spots like Italy. They said they easily got TWICE the portions of food and drink for the same price in Greece!

This is good to hear, because in Greece we have all the private networks (anti-government for 95%) trying to convince us that Greece is hell to live in. At the same time, the sales of Hummer SUVs and the Aston Martins have been increased although the ones of the Ferraris dropped a little... :D.

Although I reckon they obviously didn't have much coffee to drink since a cup of espresso may cost twice in Ymittos Street in Pagrati than in Rome's Via Venetto!!! :lol:

No, seriously, it's good to hear such news.

Believe me guys, due to my job I'm spending some time in Spain (I believe I'm going to be here for a few more weeks), and things are really pricy here compared to Greece.

I mean, back at home I do more things and with 1 Euro than here, in other words, the Euro has more power in Greece than in Spain. (At least this is my personal experience).

Each time I go to the super market, I cannot help but think how much I would like to be in one of our "infernal" (since they're located in the supposed hell known as Greece, according with the p. networks) super markets, where things are cheaper and of (in my humble opinion) higher quality (btw I'm still looking for peas and can't find anywhere :ohno:).

Again, I'm still remember a few months ago when they showed in each channel different comparison charts with prices of goods in Greece and other countries (putting Greece always in the bottom of the list, surprise surprise).

Well, according to my list and the burden experienced by my poor wallet, this place is more expensive than Greece.

Remember guys, the grass is not greener, blah blah, blah....

great news for the tousism!!!!:banana:

as for the value for money ill have to disagree! things might seem cheap in greece especialy for those not in europe, but for others greece is very expensive! then you must also remember that wages in greece are also lower making things very difficult for greeks there - from what i know!
i had the same perception when i went there on how everything seemed cheap but if you take into acount the greek wages, its not a really cheap country at all!:ohno:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1216054195737887035
check this out, they do price comparisons between germany and greece and greece in regards to euro value is way behind!

I wouldn't disagree on the relative value of items offered in Greece. Overall though, we maintain a reasonable standard of living.

Let us everybody here know that in Athens you can buy a "unified" ticket for 80 cents (1 Euro from 1/1/2009) to use it in ALL of Athens mass transport system -tram, buses, the metro and suburban rail-for 1.5 hours!!!

I used to hear that the value of Euro in Greece was relativly high compared to other places including Germany.

I used to hear that the value of Euro in Greece was relativly high compared to other places including Germany.

That's thanks to the media. Look, I can tell you that as of 2008 in Spain the minimum wages are of 600 Euros or U$S intl. 9360 a year while in Greece 680 or U$S intl. 10,608 a year. Still Spain is more expensive and when you go to the super market you can easily realize that.

That's why also Greece has a higher PPP than Spain as of 2008 according to the World Bank; with a PPP of U$S 33,074 in the former and U$S 31,312 in the latter; btw it is also higher than that of Italy which PPP per capita is at U$S 29,934 and slightly below Germany U$S 33,154 and France U$S 33,414.

Finally it is also true what GM mentions, as in Athens you have the unified ticket which allows passengers use all of Athens mass transport system for 1.5 hours. And tha fact becomes recurrent in my mind each time I'm in other country and must take a combination of different means (ie Bus and Metro) (especially in New York hehe).

Of course we have our share of problems but they aren't any more serious than those of other countries.

In Piazza Duomo in Milan a double espresso and a glass of water at Bar Zucca (something like Zonar's in Athens) cost 9,60 euros. A bottle of mineral water (0,5 litre) in Rome costs 1,50 up 2,00 euros. A tickets for the metro costs 1,00 euro but ONLY for one trip. A sandwitch ("panino") in kiosk or places like Everest or Gregorys 4,50. In Rome and Milan the cheapest apartment you can rent (25 mq.) costs 800 up 1000 euros. And average monthly salary is 1.000,00 euros...

Thanks dear mauder. Can somebody please transfer the above mentioned facts to the hysterical Greek TV networks? I mean, there's something called "ethics" that is probably thrown out of the window long ago by the mass media in this county... :(

I was in Greece last week and I was surprised (I don’t know why) to see and hear the blatant lies that Greek television channels are dishing out every single day.

For example, all the channels were talking about the interest rates that are being charged on consumer loans in Greece and that they are much higher in Greece than anywhere else within the Euro zone. Furthermore, Greek banks are the only ones who are raising interest rates where other Euro zone banks are lowering them. I do not know on what planet these alleged journalists are living, but things can not be further from the truth.

In many Euro zone countries interest rates have been increased. For example the interest on my credit card was increased just last week. The interest rates charged on consumer loans vary depending on each borrower’s financial position. So it is easy to just look up the lowest interest rate that you can find but is any journalist looking into the conditions that have to be met prior to such interest rates applying to a loan?

Sensationalist headlines create more viewers/readers, thus more profits.
It's never going to end unless media networks suddenly become non for profit organizations which there isn't even a remote possibility in a parallel universe of happening.
It's just something we are going to have to live with.

I'm Italian and live in Athens last 10 years. I go in Italy about twice a year, this the reason why I can compare prices in Italy and Greece. No doubt that the prices of many goods and services are increased last 10 years in Greece but salaries of Greek people are much better too than 10 years ago and the same I can say for quality of services. And Greece is the 21 richiest country in the world with important economic growth last years so it's natural, I think, prices are higher then in the past. But in Greece you can live in downtown of cities, something that you can't do in any other big european city because rents are very very high, can eat in a restaurant good food without paying too much and so on. On the other side, my parents come in Greece from Milan every year to spend their holidays and they say that year in Greece and in Athens life is about 30% cheaper that in Milan and quality of services are the same (if not better in Athens, they say, and I'm agree: public transortations for example). Other info: in Italy Aspirina or Depon costs 3.50 up 4.00 euros! In Athens 0,60 cents. This is the reason why my mother buys at least 20 packages of Aspirina and Depon when she is here in Athens...

Can I give you the phones of the following channels to tell them all the above by yourself? I.e. Mega Channel, Antenna, Alpha, Alter, to begin with.

Pity :ohno:

Not that things are not bad BUT it's clear that certain networks serve particular political interests. Period.

I'm Italian and live in Athens last 10 years. I go in Italy about twice a year, this the reason why I can compare prices in Italy and Greece. No doubt that the prices of many goods and services are increased last 10 years in Greece but salaries of Greek people are much better too than 10 years ago and the same I can say for quality of services. And Greece is the 21 richiest country in the world with important economic growth last years so it's natural, I think, prices are higher then in the past. But in Greece you can live in downtown of cities, something that you can't do in any other big european city because rents are very very high, can eat in a restaurant good food without paying too much and so on. On the other side, my parents come in Greece from Milan every year to spend their holidays and they say that year in Greece and in Athens life is about 30% cheaper that in Milan and quality of services are the same (if not better in Athens, they say, and I'm agree: public transortations for example). Other info: in Italy Aspirina or Depon costs 3.50 up 4.00 euros! In Athens 0,60 cents. This is the reason why my mother buys at least 20 packages of Aspirina and Depon when she is here in Athens... mauder if your parents leave milan to come to athens for holidays every year then i would sugest them some stronger medicines than aspirin and depon,actually i would send them straight to the psychiatrist... just kiding
anyway milan is a wealthier city than athens and naturaly its more expencive.also naturaly a supermarket in london should be more expensive than a supermarket in athens because london is much wealthier than athens but believe me its not.even mediteranean products they can be cheaper there than in greece.its amazing!!!!!
lets not talk about clothes and shoes because its a very sad story

mauder if your parents leave milan to come to athens for holidays every year then i would sugest them some stronger medicines than aspirin and depon,actually i would send them straight to the psychiatrist... just kiding
anyway milan is a wealthier city than athens and naturaly its more expencive.also naturaly a supermarket in london should be more expensive than a supermarket in athens because london is much wealthier than athens but believe me its not.even mediteranean products they can be cheaper there than in greece.its amazing!!!!!
lets not talk about clothes and shoes because its a very sad story



Lysandros, I was living in Milan 30 years and I know very well what I'm speaking about. Here in Athens many people believe they live in hell. I'm living in Athens last 10 years and I wouldn't return in Milan for no reason in the world. Milan only in the statistics is wealthier than Athens. Average monthly salary in Milan is 1.000 euros, if your salary is 1.500 euros people consider you very rich (do you know "The 1.000 euros generation"? Is an Italian book and it was translated in Greek language from Kastaniotis Editions). An apartment in neighborood like Pangrati coasts 1.000 euros (25 mq) and electricity at least 50 euros for month. Clothes in HM, Zara, Massimo Dutti or Pull and Bear stores are always more expensive than in Athens (you can simply compare prices because very often price tags have prices from all the country), shoes Camper are always more expensive too. Mediterranean products in Milan are more expensive than in Athens or have the same prices but services and goods are more and more expensive and salaries are comparable with Greeks ones (only some IKEA items are more expensive in Greece, I would say the more popular ones, like library BILLY. Less popular items are cheaper in Athens). Official propaganda in Milan in order to control the ungry people says the same you say: you live in a rich city so it's natural Milan is expensive. But it is propaganda. In London I don't know what the situation is but in Berlin I remember people buyed Danish feta and German parmezana that are cheaper than Greek feta and Italian parmigiano but are not original Greek and Italian cheeses. This don't mean in any case that prices must increase in Greece or that we don't have problems here in Greece! But it's wrong to believe foreign people that Greece is more expensive than their countries and give a wrong idea about the real situation here.

Should I mention that rent prices in Madrid are astronomical (for a low quality) In downtown Madrid you won't find a shared room for less than 400 Euros (and I mean horrible rooms), that's why I decided for the short time I'll stay in Spain to rent a house in a little nice town 20kms NW from Madrid (something similar to saying ta Mesogeia). Also downtown Madrid is nice for strolling but not for living, the atmosphere there is by no means as friendly and cozy (yeah cozy) as in Athens, sorry guys my humble opinion (when I have to mention the errors of Athens I do so too, but in this case I cannot lie you, I feel that Athens is more human).

Regarding the cost of living in Spain, here's a good example of what I paid today in a super market of downtown Madrid for the following products:

Rice (1 kg) 1.91 Euros
Tomatoes (500 g) 3.30 Euros
Apples (500 g) 3.15 Euros
Bananas (1.2 kg) 3.57 Euros
Carrots (1kg) 2.94 Euros
Mushrooms (250g) 2.35 Euros
Total Fage yogurt 1.30 Euros (yeah Greek products can be found everywhere but in America there's even more variety of Greek products).

Sorry I'm vegetarian so I can't help you with meat and fish as I don't know the prices.

As for transportation, a ticket for the metro costs 1 Euro for only one trip (well actually as long as you stay within the metro system you can take as many trains as you wish, but as soon as you got outside the ticket loses validity. So there's no combination or such things, also I have to confess that nowhere I feel so comfortable regarding the prices as in the Athens transportation system where with just 0.80 Euros (1 Euro from next year) within a reasonable 1:30 hours period I can take as many buses, metro trains, proastiakos, etc as I wish. So let's get superlatives if I'm in say, Voula and want to go to Nea Erythraia, I can take a bus to Aghios Dimitrios from there the Metro line 2 to Omonoia, then metro line 1 to Kifissia and from there take the bus 560 to Nea Erythaia that's about a 40kms trip for just 0.80.

BTW minimum wages in Spain are 600 Euros.

Perhaps Greece is not the cheapest country but it is by no means the most expensive European country that TV programs like "Kalymera Ellada" and other morning TV programs try to show.

I KNOW ALL THIS THINGS GUYS AND I AGREE WITH YOU BUT I STILL THINK THAT GREECE COULD BE A MUCH CHEAPER COUNTRY IF SIMPLY THE RULES OF MARKET WERE WORKING AND PEOPLE HAD THE CONSUMERS CULTURE.
MAUDER IN GREECE ONLY 2 YEARS AGO NOT EVEN A 10% OF PEOPLE WOULD CHECK THE PRICE OF PETROL IN THE PETROL STATION BEFORE YOU FULL YOUR CAR.

Guys I’ve lived in UK (Cardiff, Leicester and Birmingham) for the last 10 year and while the cost of living in Athens was significantly lower back in late 90s the gap’s getting smaller and smaller every year. The average starting salary for a young professional in UK is about £1,400-1,500 per month after tax and while the Council Tax (£50) and transport (£2 metro return ticket) are more expensive everything else is more or less the same.
The rent for a one bedroom flat is about £400 per month, while if you live with a housemate around £300 is enough to get you a really nice apartment. Clothes more or less the same, clubbing is significantly cheaper, while taxis far more expensive.
I’m not sure how it compares to Italy as I’ve never visited, but life for a young professional it seems less stressful than life in Athens.

p.s London is a whole different story……

^^

Exactly and since Athens is the capital of Greece you should compare prices in Athens to prices in other European capitals.

Amsterdam for exaple is a lot more expensive so is London.

IMO you should compare cities of about the same polulation size, national and interantional significance. Birmingham,Barcelona, Rotterdam and Milan are in the same league with cities like Athens and Madrid so it makes perfect sense to compare prices and the quality of the urban environment.

What mauder said is very interesting. I also believe that Athens can do better, but on the other hand the hysterical Greek media gives the impression that we're living in a shithole, hell etc
I remember once that they said that petrol in Greece was the most expensive in Europe :lol:

£0.95 the unleaded in my local garage today (was £1.30 three months ago) :wallbash::wallbash:

0.85 € here.

At Christmas I'll be in Milan, so I'll do a more complete report about other products and goods' prices (meat, vegetables, yogurt FAGE and so on). I think that a country or city is more or less expensive if services are more or less expensive. I.E. if yogurt FAGE in Athens coasts (for example) 3,00 euros and in Milano (for example, I don't know if real prices for yogurt are these) 1,50, we say that Milano is cheaper that Athens. But if in Athens to rent an apartment (50 mq) in an average central neighborood coasts 400 euros and in Milan the same typology of apartment and neighborood coasts 1500 euros (in this case I'm speaking about real prices) you realize that Milan is more and more expensive than Athens: because I can eat less yogurt but I can't live on the streets. And here in Athens many many "luxury" services are very cheap: if you are worker in Milan (for example), are 7 o'clock in the afternoon, it's raining, you are tired and don't want to take bus or metro to come back home, but you want take taxi, you will not do this because you are worker and you have not 50 euros to spend for taxi (real prices). Here in Athens you can do this because "ti psixi exei ena dekariko?"... So, i repeat: Athens can and must do much better, we can have cheaper prices and politicians must do more controls and fights cartels and trusts but on the other side we must admite that, yes, some things are bad here in Greece, but many others are not so bad and others one are much much better than in rest of Europe and in socalled "advanced" countries. In other words people in Greece must have more selfconfidence and resist to propaganda of MME that for their reasons paint with black colours situation in Greece. And I'm 100 % agree with GrigorisSokratis: atmosphere in Athens downtown is so sweet and cosy... nothing compares to that.

So, i repeat: Athens can and must do much better, we can have cheaper prices and politicians must do more controls and fights cartels and trusts but on the other side we must admite that, yes, some things are bad here in Greece, but many others are not so bad and others one are much much better than in rest of Europe and in socalled "advanced" countries. In other words people in Greece must have more selfconfidence and resist to propaganda of MME that for their reasons paint with black colours situation in Greece.
Couldn't have said it better :applause:
mauder, πρέπει να γράφεις πιο συχνά :cheers:

i had the same perception when i went there on how everything seemed cheap but if you take into acount the greek wages, its not a really cheap country at all!

I try and be tolerant SM, but that was not a very intelligent post. Now, reread your post one more time and you'll see what I mean.

We were comparing the prices for comparable goods in Greece compared to other European nations and commenting on how Greek PRICES were lower. Somehow, you turned it into a discussion of wages and not prices.

I realize that coherent thought is becoming harder and harder to find, but lets TRY and demonstrate it in this forum. We are Greeks, afterall. The folks who developed rational argument.

Couldn't have said it better :applause:
mauder, πρέπει να γράφεις πιο συχνά :cheers:



Olympios, thank you so much. I really believe that Greece and Athens have huge potentialities but often we have lack of selfconfidence. The fact that I was not born in Greece and lived abroad until 30 y.o. helps me, I think. Neither I am Greek of diaspora. On the other hand IMO if people can distinguish what real problems are and what are propaganda or construction of MME and political power, we can to find better solutions for real problems. :)

We were comparing the prices for comparable goods in Greece compared to other European nations and commenting on how Greek PRICES were lower. Somehow, you turned it into a discussion of wages and not prices.

OK and I brought in a video about PRICES! Now if that video is 'propaganda' I apologise since I would not know at first - But what is said in that video also describes a situation many of my family and relatives describe.
I have an aunt in Spain and she tells me that a coffee there costs her up to 2 euros while in Greece she pays up to 4! I have friends studying in london and they also tell me that over there living is much more easier than living in Greece, in regards to prices!
...Now many other posters describe a different situation that is interesting and nice to read!
I grew up in Greece up to grade 6 and only travel to Greece every two years for holidays so my knowledge in this is low, and i try to learn and take in as much as I can.
The thing that gets me though is that when I keep telling people there that I want to move back set a business etc. everyone keeps telling me "ti na kaneis edw! to mono pou iparxei edw einai anergia kai akrivia" i dont believe that though! jobs do exist and how is it that there's 'akrivia' when everyone parties every day of the week -bouzoukia, coffee not to mention home ownership in greece is one of the highest!


I realize that coherent thought is becoming harder and harder to find, but lets TRY and demonstrate it in this forum. We are Greeks, afterall. The folks who developed rational argument.

i dont understand your point - so it is unrational to also discuss wages when we talk about prices???

GLOBAL/WORLD COST OF LIVING RANKINGS 2008/2009
http://www.finfacts.com/costofliving.htm

Athens 25th up from 29th, less expensive than London, Milan, Rome etc, more expensive than Madrid, Stockholm, Melbourne, Munich etc

GLOBAL/WORLD COST OF LIVING RANKINGS 2008/2009
http://www.finfacts.com/costofliving.htm

Athens 25th up from 29th, less expensive than London, Milan, Rome etc, more expensive than Madrid, Stockholm, Melbourne, Munich etc

Actually I don't trust those rankings, as I am in Madrid now, and it seems quite more expensive than Athens. At least when we are talking about transportation and food.

Actually I don't trust those rankings, as I am in Madrid now, and it seems quite more expensive than Athens. At least when we are talking about transportation and food.



I'm agree with you. As always, they don't compare the same things. So, in Rome a cup of coffee may coasts 2,50 euros but in Via Veneto coasts 3,50 up to 4.00 euros. In Athens a simple espresso coasts in average 2,50 euros in Exarchia and not 4,50 as they say. At Zonar's they may be right. But what they compare? Simple coffee bar in Rome with Zonar's in Athens? And what they mean with "luxury apartment"? Apartment that simple is not "worker house" or luxury as we have in Kolonaki or Lycabettus or Ekali in Athens? Or luxury in Piazza di Spagna in Rome? Because if they mean something like "double bedroom apartment" in Piazza di Spagna, 1,600 euro is only for condominium expenses. In the same way, a doubleroom apartment on Lycabettus hill is more expensive that 1,050 euros monthly. Νισάφι πια με τη λογική του "ποιος το έχει μεγαλύτερο ή μικρότερο!".

For some reason the Greek media loves to use the "cup of coffee" as a barometer for Athens' cost of living compared to other major European cities. That's not necessarily a good way to quantify the cost of essentials such as utilities, rent, fuel, food, and public transport. In reality, some things are more expensive in Greece, but other things are cheaper. Practically every week MEGA or ANT1 repeats its infamous cup of coffee statistic, and people gobble it up with mouth gaping open. I don't know why the same information over and over again continues to interest and shock people (including my parents), or what underlying goal the private telelvision networks have, but when you've lived abroad for a considerable amount of time, the sensationalism in the private Greek media -along with the misconceptions about the outside world that the media pushes- become transparent. This is not to say that the cost of living hasn't increased in recent years, and that there are no economic challenges. These are certainly real problems, but the media has a very irresponsible and sensationalist way of reporting on these issues.

I now watch Greek TV with satellite service here in Chicago, and the way they report news from/about the United States is hysterical. A few months after the 11/9/2001 terrorist attacks, I remember a Greek channel (I think I was watching MEGA Sat) was reporting that Americans were going to stores in droves and stocking up on supplies (food, fuel, etc)...which was not true.

Perhaps the funniest example I have of irresponsible sensationalism in the Greek media is the way the private networks were covering the major snow storm Athens had a few years ago. They actually gave air time to private citizens blaming the government for the snow storm, and expecting the government to clear their private lots. Whereas in Chicago, where it snows regularly, the municipality only clears the roads -not even sidewalks- and certainly not people's private driveways and walkways. (And that's the way it should be. Citizens should be responsible for their own lots, and can put on a pair of boots and walk through the snow. The state should only be responsible to clear roads so that automobile traffic can safely pass through). And this is Chicago. If a snowstorm were to happen in Los Angeles, whose climate is much more similar to Athens, the city would be paralyzed; LA isn't prepared for such a thing, because it never happens there. And it normally doesn't happen in Athens either. I remember another private citizen airing his grievances on television, chastising Elefthérios Venizélos Airport for closing down that day. You'd think that citizens would understand the airport's first ever closure since its opening, but this man went on complaining "well how do airports operate in colder places like Britain? Here it only snows once, and we can't handle it". First of all, it hardly snows in Britain. And second: it's precisely because this never happens in Athens, that the city wasn't prepared for it. And even here in Chicago where it does snow regularly throughout the winter, every winter, a major snow storm causes havoc at O'Hare International Airport, and flight cancellations abound.

Of course, the media should play a role in critiquing the goverment. Here in the United States, the media did the exactly the opposite, and complacently went along with everything officials were saying regarding 9/11 and Iraq. However, the media needs to critique the goverment and report the news responsibly and not in a sensationalist manner. Giving air time to every malaka on the street who thinks that British cities are accustomed to snow, or that the government should clear their private lots, is not responsible journalism. It contributes to the mizeria complex that Greeks suffer from.

Oh woe is me!

MAUDER: Thank you for your insight. You should post here more often.

There are bound to be errors in every form of journalism, but I wouldn't exactly call interviewing citizens a journalistic error. Journalism is there to report, not to persuade or judge. Hearing what citizens have to say is a crucial part of remaining objective and unbiased towards the government and situations. Usually when they show street interviews, they show one or two of each opinion. It has its errors, but Greek news often is much more unbiased and citizen-related than what I'm used to here in the US.

As far as the citizens complaining about the government, it's true that it happens MUCH more in Greece than the US at least. But while sometimes citizens' expectations may seem extreme, they also work to improve the system and raise the bar for governmental performance. Lately the government has also been consistently pointing out each citizen's responsibility for Greece, which is also a good thing.

I know it's a sensitive subject, but a good example is the police force. I was discussing the situation with a police officer in the states a few days ago. In the US, if citizens were to attempt to throw a molotov cocktail at police officers at the distance we've seen them thrown in Greece, the US police are trained to respond with several rounds of live ammunition to the chest, regardless of the attacker's age. Risking police getting caught on fire in the US is unheard of, yet in Greece we see it quite frequently. While the riots and citizen opinions of late may be exaggerated, they do keep in check the threat of what many call here a "legalized mafia".

Sure it's over-the-top, but there is some benefit from it.

I don't know. I think that networks' decision to give air time to even the most unreasonable and extreme opinions from people on the street amounts to irresponsible journalism, on par with pushing human consumption of olive tree leaves as a cancer-prevantitive medicine. :nuts: I hope we all remember that fiasco. When the interviewee says "well what do they do in Britain", then I'd at least expect the uneducated journalists at ANT1 to do some fact-checking and see that it doesn't snow there, before the Greek public gets all riled up over one big nothing, due in part to the Greek media pushing misconceptions about the exoteriko on the Greek public. I actually don't think they put any effort into countering wild claims made by random people. :nuts: The US media has a lot of its own problems: you're right that it's heavily biased (and don't forget: manipulated by the government and corporate interests), but the Greek private media practices the other extreme: free for all sensationalism.

[QUOTE=skyduster;30339760]For some reason the Greek media loves to use the "cup of coffee" as a barometer for Athens' cost of living compared to other major European cities. That's not necessarily a good way to quantify the cost of essentials such as utilities, rent, fuel, food, and public transport.


I agree with you. I think it's mych better, for exemple, to compare how much coast a trip by bus or metro in Athens and how much in London, Paris, Madrid and so on. Coffee is a "luxury" item, public transport don't.
Happy new year to all of you and thanks Skyduster for your words.

although what im gonna post is not really relevant with the topic i would like to mention that a radio station here in the uk and easyjet,sending people to Dubrovnik(i dont know how to spell it at the minute and im lazy to search for the right name),Larnaca,another place which i cant remember at the minute and SANTORINI!That means although what happened in Greece with riots and stuff,they still sending people to Greece,even if Santorini is an island.

although what im gonna post is not really relevant with the topic i would like to mention that a radio station here in the uk and easyjet,sending people to Dubrovnik(i dont know how to spell it at the minute and im lazy to search for the right name),Larnaca,another place which i cant remember at the minute and SANTORINI!That means although what happened in Greece with riots and stuff,they still sending people to Greece,even if Santorini is an island.

I honestly think the riots will have zero effect on tourism, a positive effect if any because Greece got a lot of exposure in the media.

What will have a negative effect on tourism is the economy, especially for the english who didnt adopt the euro. Excpect a lot of people to go to Egypt, Bulgaria and Croatia, or just stay at home for a year.

If only Greek bars and cafes would charge less then E100.000 for a beer or a coffee, a lot more people would come (again).

thats what i 've said on an older post gorgos..that the tourism will not be affected from the riots..with my previous post i wanted to show it too!
and i do agree with you,if bars and cafes charge less more people will come.
and i can compare prices here and there for drinks and i see greece is bit more expensive believe it or not(beer mostly)
anyway...im gonna go Greece on saturday even if its expensive lol!yayyyyyyyyy :D :D :D :D

What will have a negative effect on tourism is the economy, especially for the english who didnt adopt the euro. Excpect a lot of people to go to Egypt, Bulgaria and Croatia, or just stay at home for a year.

If only Greek bars and cafes would charge less then E100.000 for a beer or a coffee, a lot more people would come (again).

Problem is, Greece has a higher cost of living than the countries you mentioned. Most businesses that are on the front line of the tourism industry (hotels, cafes and bars in toursty areas, etc) can't afford to reduce their prices. Only the few overpriced places like Mykonos may be able to reduce their prices somewhat. But places like Crete, Corfu, Zakynthos, Kos, Rhodes, Santorini, Halkidiki, Paros, and Skiathos, which are the bread and butter of the Greek tourism industry, are not overpriced. It's not that merchants are greedy; its that they have to cover their own high costs. This is why there's debate in Greece about making the country's tourism industry less reliant on budget travelers. It's also equally important to continue improving our infrastructure (roads, public transport, urban planning, hotels, etc), so that tourists and prospective tourists see a justification for spending more money in Greece. Greece already has more developed infrastructure than Croatia, Bulgaria, and Egypt. We need to continue improving, and to make sure we don't slide. Additionally, we need to market the country as a cultural destination, and not just a sunny/beach destination and/or archaeological one. We've already made strides in that direction; we need to keep it up.

Problem is, Greece has a higher cost of living than the countries you mentioned. Most businesses that are on the front line of the tourism industry (hotels, cafes and bars in toursty areas, etc) can't afford to reduce their prices. Only the few overpriced places like Mykonos may be able to reduce their prices somewhat. But places like Crete, Corfu, Zakynthos, Kos, Rhodes, Santorini, Halkidiki, Paros, and Skiathos, which are the bread and butter of the Greek tourism industry, are not overpriced. It's not that merchants are greedy; its that they have to cover their own high costs. This is why there's debate in Greece about making the country's tourism industry less reliant on budget travelers. It's also equally important to continue improving our infrastructure (roads, public transport, urban planning, hotels, etc), so that tourists and prospective tourists see a justification for spending more money Greece. Greece already has more developed infrastructure than Croatia, Bulgaria, and Egypt. We need to continue improving, and to make sure we don't slide. Additionally, we need to market the country as a cultural destination, and not just a sunny/beach destination and/or archaeological one. We've already made strides in that direction; we need to keep it up.

I agree Greece cant lower the cost of its products to Bulagria levels. What it can do is find a way to maximize profit through lowering prices accompinied with a higher turnover as a result of that.

Asking 5 euros for a beer or a coffee is outrageous and cant be justified when in the most expensive capitals of the world cafes ask half that price. If a bar lowers the price to normal levels (2 - 2.5 euros), people will most probably order more and have more fun. They also wont have the feeling they are being ripped off. As you can notice, I feel ripped off myself when I go out. Its become out of control. :down:

Lately Im sort of active in Messinia. A number of (at least 3) extremely large (1000+ rooms) golf resorts are being built there. Thats something Greece can differentiate with from cheaper destinations. Im also aware of a few marinas that are being built which should attract more affluent people.

Come in Chania and see what is happening. At least 5 new big hotels are built every year.

Lately Im sort of active in Messinia. A number of (at least 3) extremely large (1000+ rooms) golf resorts are being built there. Thats something Greece can differentiate with from cheaper destinations. Im also aware of a few marinas that are being built which should attract more affluent people.


I read about these developments in Messinia.

Another high end development is the investment Minoan Group Plc at Cavo Sidero (now in the news and better known as Moni Toplou).

http://www.minoangroup.com/siteplans.htm#

This investment is attracting several luxury hotels to Crete.

Nέα σύμβαση διαχείρισης η Minoan

Τη δεύτερη σύμβαση ανάθεσης της διαχείρισης και λειτουργίας ξενοδοχείου και spa με διεθνούς φήμης ξενοδοχειακή αλυσίδα υπέγραψε η εισηγμένη στην αγορά ΑΙΜ του Λονδίνου Minoan Group Plc, στο πλαίσιο του προγραμματισμού της για την υλοποίηση επένδυσης με προϋπολογισμό 1,2 δισ. ευρώ στο τουριστικό θέρετρο Κάβο Σίδερο στην Κρήτη.

Η σύμβαση της Minoan υπογράφηκε με την Six Senses Resorts and Spas, η οποία ενισχύει την παρουσία της στη χώρα μας, και το ξενοδοχείο θα φέρει την επωνυμία «Λευκή Αμμος». Εχει προηγηθεί η ανάθεση διαχείρισης πολυτελούς ξενοδοχείου στην ξενοδοχειακή αλυσίδα Κempinski.

Για το έργο Κάβο Σίδερο έχει εγκριθεί η Μελέτη Περιβαλλοντικών Επιπτώσεων διά ειδικής Κοινής Υπουργικής Απόφασης. Το κύρος της έγκρισης περιβαλλοντικών όρων έχει προσβληθεί και εκκρεμεί ενώπιον του Συμβουλίου της Επικρατείας. Αξίζει να σημειωθεί ότι η έναρξη των διαδικασιών από την πλευρά της Minoan Group Plc για την υλοποίηση του έργου έχει ξεκινήσει από το 1995. H Six Senses διαχειρίζεται πολυτελή τουριστικά θέρετρα στις Μαλδίβες, την Ταϊλάνδη, το Βιετνάμ, το Ομάν και τα νησιά Φίτζι, και σύντομα στην Ισπανία και την Ιορδανία. Επίσης, η λειτουργία Six Senses Spas προγραμματίζεται τόσο στο κέντρο του Παρισίου όσο και στο Λονδίνο στις αρχές του 2009.

Οπως δήλωσε ο πρόεδρος και διευθύνων σύμβουλος της Six Senses: «Eίμαστε περήφανοι που το έργο αυτό θα είναι το λανσάρισμα του εξαιρετικού σήματος Six Senses Evolution διεθνώς και μάλιστα σε μία ανάπτυξη τέτοιου κύρους». Το σήμα Six Senses Evolution δίνει ιδιαίτερα έντονη έμφαση στην προστασία του περιβάλλοντος. Οπως δήλωσε ο πρόεδρος της Minoan, κ. Christopher Egleton, «η υπογραφή του μνημονίου συμφωνίας με την Six Senses επισφραγίζει τη δέσμευση της Minoan να φέρει περιβαλλοντικά διαπιστευτήρια στο θέρετρο Κάβο Σίδερο».

Source: www.kathimerini.gr

Lately Im sort of active in Messinia. A number of (at least 3) extremely large (1000+ rooms) golf resorts are being built there.

:eek: Three is a lot for Messenia. Do you know where exactly? My parents live in Messenia, I know it well. Greece's best-kept secret finally discovered by the mass tourism industry.

:eek: Three is a lot for Messenia. Do you know where exactly? My parents live in Messenia, I know it well. Greece's best-kept secret finally discovered by the mass tourism industry.

In Gialova. Google 'Navarino Resorts' , developed by Romanos (they are B I G !).

http://www.starwoodhotels.com/luxury/property/overview/index.html?propertyID=3290

http://www.pylos-voidokilia.com/blog/2008/09/costa-navarino-en.html

You are right. Messinia is one of the most beuaitful undiscovered parts of Greece.