Bulgaria and its neighbouring countries

[JloKyM]

This is the place we can start a new Balkan discussion..You could answer my questions or could write about everything you want related to our neighbours or nearby countries.

1. Which neighbouring country do you like the most?
2. Which neighbouring country in your opinion is our "best friend"?
3. Which neighbouring country you dislike and why?
4. Should we improve the economical and cultural relations with our neighbours?

:)

[Ivanski]

Baaad idea :D

[MystN]

Baaad idea :D

:lol:

[JloKyM]

Baaad idea :D

I\m not so sure. Lets wait and see what will happen here. :cheers:

1. Which neighbouring country do you like the most?
Romania and Greece
2. Which neighbouring country in your opinion is our "best friend"?
Probably Greece
3. Which neighbouring country you dislike and why?
Serbia and Turkey due to historical issues.
4. Should we improve the economical and cultural relations with our neighbours?
Yes, we should improve our relations with Romania, Turkey, Serbia and especially FYROM.

[blago84]

1. Which neighbouring country do you like the most?
I have no favourite. Everyone of them is beautiful and interesting place in its own, unique way.
2. Which neighbouring country in your opinion is our "best friend"?
I'm not sure. But I believe that today we have good friends everywhere around us, excluding south-west
3. Which neighbouring country you dislike and why?
FYROM, they have to stop pretending for things which do not belong to them, stop pretending to be something they are not, and they have to stop look for enemies where good friends may stay. I want a little bit more harsh course towards FYROM. We have been nice to them long enough. I do not mean to start relation of hostility towards them, but they must learn an important lesson - that their unprovoked hostility towards us will not be tolerated
4. Should we improve the economical and cultural relations with our neighbours?
Of course we should - with all our neighbors including FYROM

[MystN]

I'll simply make a list of the countries I like the most.

1. Romania and Greece.
2. Serbia.
3. FYROMacedonia and Turkey.

"Should we improve the economical and cultural relations with our neighbours?"

Of course we should, with all of them when it's possible, with some of them unfortunately it's not possible and it doesn't depend on us.

[paF4uko]

^^ I wish it was really so... :)

[bgrs]

This thread should be closed :)

In political terms - Romania and Greece, well probably Turkey as well.
In terms of which nation is most closely related to us - Macedonia and to a less extend Romania, Serbia and Greece.

In terms of similar rites, language, religion - Serbia and Macedonia.

In terms of similar mentality - Macedonia and Romania.

In terms of similar economic reality - probably Romania.

[paF4uko]

1. Which neighbouring country do you like the most?
Serbia - because of the way they take care of their motorways and the close linguistic relationship. Romania - because I admire how they develop (except motorways, but still)! Greece - because they have preserved their cultural heritage and they develop tourism without ruining the nature.
2. Which neighbouring country in your opinion is our "best friend"?
Romania and Greece - we're all in the EU after all and we have interest to lead common politics on the Balkans. And as you all know 3 > 1 :) For example the politics towards FYROM should be the same on the Greek and the Bulgarian side...Unfortunately this is not the case at the moment.
3. Which neighbouring country you dislike and why?
I am getting over the history and I don't think I dislike any country for what it is. What I dislike are the politics of FYROM and Turkey.
4. Should we improve the economical and cultural relations with our neighbours?
Of course. Especially with Romania and Greece as we have a common market. We also have to enter the FYROM economy and show them that we're not the bad "tatars" as they had been told in school. It would be good if we improve the cultural exchange and help the economy in the "western outlands" in Serbia.

[Ivanski]

we're all one big happy family here on the Balkans :D

[petet]

I won't be kiss ass soo..

1. Which neighbouring country do you like the most?
2. Which neighbouring country in your opinion is our "best friend"?
3. Which neighbouring country you dislike and why?
4. Should we improve the economical and cultural relations with our neighbours?


1.There is no any country.
2.Where,where?!
3.Serbia for their nacionalism and try to "wash brains" but respect them that ther are really united nation.Macedonia for their stupidness.Romania for their drivers ah ah terrfic (sorry Romanian people).Greece for their double-faces.Turkey for their dreams that never became true.
4.Some our "good neighbours" must to stop to stealing our traditions and then we could talk about that!

[Turnovec]

Long live the friendship and cooperation with Romania & Greece!
The other serbo-albo-malbo;crazy ancient bucefals from the south west etc. banal stuff simply does not deserve so much attention ...

And oh yes - this one turned into a crap of a thread :D

[BIK]

I\m not so sure. Lets wait and see what will happen here. :cheers:

3. Which neighbouring country you dislike and why?
Serbia and Turkey due to historical issues.


Sorry for OT but i am really curious as to what is fueling this animosity towards us from the Bulgarian side.
I have seen a lot of Bulgarians bring up history as a reason to dislike us, and i personally have no clue what that history is.
I think we as people are very similar and hold no negative feelings about Bulgaria.
To be honest, when i was living in Serbia we did not know much about Bulgaria so maybe that is why my knowledge of 'bad' history is like ti is.

[zzibit]

don't worry about it. unfortunately it seems that a good amount of people hold grudges (myself included, but no with Serbia). I hope one day we can all look each other in the eye without preconceived judgments.

[blago84]

Sorry for OT but i am really curious as to what is fueling this animosity towards us from the Bulgarian side.
I have seen a lot of Bulgarians bring up history as a reason to dislike us, and i personally have no clue what that history is.
I think we as people are very similar and hold no negative feelings about Bulgaria.
To be honest, when i was living in Serbia we did not know much about Bulgaria so maybe that is why my knowledge of 'bad' history is like ti is.

Well at first - there was no war in which we were not enemies (excluding the first Balkan war)... and we lost them all (excluding the Serbо-Bulgarian war from 1885)
Second - the "Great Serbia" policy of some of your former governments, and many negative for Bulgaria results by it. But actually you are those, paying the harsh price for that.
Third - I believe that at both sides the historians are changing the things a little bit in order "our people" to look as "the good in guys in shiny armors" and the others as "the bad, ugly, smelling idiots"

In short these are the main reasons for hatred between the two nations.
I believe that what's done is done, it cannot be turned back. But we have looked to the past long enough. To the future is where we should look now. And our future is to stay together like friends. Hostilities are not needed, maybe they were at some historical point, but not anymore. So let's just :cheers1:

[3tmk]

I cleaned up the thread

it isn't a bad idea if it gets people to understand each other across boundaries.

It doesn't mean that I won't close the thread if needed.

[radi6404]

I am astounded that many wrote Greece as best friends, you should know that a lot of Greek people talk bad about Bulgaria, I had some friends which called everything shitty and the people dumb, I relaized they were dumb and quit the friendship, when I went to Greece I just saw how "great" everything in Greece is, Greece has very low standart and the infrastructure is as our and worse. I don´t like the fact Macedoninas don´t like us, I somehow want to be frined with them, I´ve heart many Macedonians with Bulgarian friends and they sound very friendly and I am sure there are good people there. And just for you to know, there are enough Bulgarians in southwestern part who claim they are Macedonians and only have a Bulgarian passport, you should hear the silly texts sang in the vloclore music. Many people with 40 and older especially in smaller towns claim they are Macedonians, now how silly is that?

[MystN]

I am astounded that many wrote Greece as best friends, you should know that a lot of Greek people talk bad about Bulgaria, I had some friends which called everything shitty and the people dumb, I relaized they were dumb and quit the friendship, when I went to Greece I just saw how "great" everything in Greece is, Greece has very low standart and the infrastructure is as our and worse. I don´t like the fact Macedoninas don´t like us, I somehow want to be frined with them, I´ve heart many Macedonians with Bulgarian friends and they sound very friendly and I am sure there are good people there. And just for you to know, there are enough Bulgarians in southwestern part who claim they are Macedonians and only have a Bulgarian passport, you should hear the silly texts sang in the vloclore music. Many people with 40 and older especially in smaller towns claim they are Macedonians, now how silly is that?

But, Radi, those friends of yours said exactly what you say all the time, why did you get upset? :lol:

Anyway, I guess everyone had different experiences with different people.

As for those people who claim they are Macedonians, their number is known - 5 071 and they are leftovers from an experiment of the bulgarian communist party. You shouldn't worry about them and besides they are free to be whatever they want as long as they don't break the laws as their party often tries to do.

Anyway, my list is about countries and their politics and relations with Bulgaria and not about the people, because the people... I'm sure they are both good and bad people everywhere, so they cannot be generalized as a single entity.

[radi6404]

I also praise some things in Bulgaria, when they are good, for example the fast improving of Sofia infrastructure or the Struma motorway ofcourse.

[panda80]

I also praise some things in Bulgaria, when they are good, for example the fast improving of Sofia infrastructure or the Struma motorway ofcourse.

ans what's your opinion, radi, upon romania?

[3tmk]

actually... I have an idea.

Radi, if you want, I give you the right to open a thread in the DLM where you will rate european countries, give people your opinion on what you like (or dislike) about them.

[radi6404]

edit

[ВМРО]

I am astounded that many wrote Greece as best friends, you should know that a lot of Greek people talk bad about Bulgaria, I had some friends which called everything shitty and the people dumb, I relaized they were dumb and quit the friendship, when I went to Greece I just saw how "great" everything in Greece is, Greece has very low standart and the infrastructure is as our and worse. I don´t like the fact Macedoninas don´t like us, I somehow want to be frined with them, I´ve heart many Macedonians with Bulgarian friends and they sound very friendly and I am sure there are good people there. And just for you to know, there are enough Bulgarians in southwestern part who claim they are Macedonians and only have a Bulgarian passport, you should hear the silly texts sang in the vloclore music. Many people with 40 and older especially in smaller towns claim they are Macedonians, now how silly is that?
I have decided not to write in this threat because of various reasons, though, this post served as magnet for my fingers.
Not long ago, when you had just returned from Greece, I remember that the only thing you had been writing about was the great infrastructure of Greece, the high living standard and the cultural inheritance.You were so enthusiastic that came up with the idea Gotse Delchev and Sandanski to be renamed into Nevrokop and Sveti Vrach:lol:Now you are saying exactly the contrary.
In respect of the folklore and the self-identification, we have already listened Comintern's theories for separate Macedonian, Moesian and Thracian nations.The fact that in some song there is "мома добруджанка" or "македонско девойче" means nothing.Some people will tell you that during WW1 there was a Macedonian army.Actually, this is not an anti-Bulgarian propaganda but fact, here it is (http://s214.photobucket.com/albums/cc103/ivailotasev/Macedonia-documents/flags%20and%20banners%20of%20VMRO/).The first and biggest collection of Macedonian folklore songs (http://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91%D1%8A%D0%BB%D0%B3%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8_%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BD%D0%B8_%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BD%D0%B8_(%D1%81%D0%B1%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA)), published in 1861 in Zagreb by two brothers, born more than 200km eastwards from the westernmost Bulgarian border.

And why don't you show us some of those numerous Bulgarians in Western Bulgaria who declare Macedonian ethnicity.I'll really appreciate seeing some of them.If you show me some video taken by you with at least 1 of them, I'll apologise for my words.However, I guess that this will be "mission impossible" and we'll have the same case as your polemics with Dulgeroff when you had to present us clips with fat Blagoevgrad girls and cool skinny Western chicks.We're still waiting...

[radi6404]

OK, you annoy me now, I told you that the only reason I don´t record a video with German girls is that I am affraid to look silly holding the camera for half an hour and making a video. I can ofcourse record people saying that they are Macedonian, they wont say that they want a macedonian passport, but they will say Pirinska macedonia is way better and the only good and beautiful people in Bulgaria are from that part and that Pirin is the only beautiful mountain and I am very serious.

The videos, well I must go to a town where noone knows me in Germany and then record the videos, than I can with no problems proove how the situation in a German town size of Blagoevgrad vs Blagoevgrad is.

those people even say I am a Macedonian and that what is on my passport doesn´t count, my aunt says that for example and I find it very silly. They say that the area south of Kucherinovo is Macedonian, I laugh at them and say they are dumb and say that it was history, now it is Bulgarian and I tell them they should go to Macedonia if they want to be Macedonians.

[MystN]

I have decided not to write in this threat because of various reasons, though, this post served as magnet for my fingers.
Not long ago, when you had just returned from Greece, I remember that the only thing you had been writing about was the great infrastructure of Greece, the high living standard and the cultural inheritance.You were so enthusiastic that came up with the idea Gotse Delchev and Sandanski to be renamed into Nevrokop and Sveti Vrach:lol:Now you are saying exactly the contrary.



Wow, great memory, dude! Radi is changing opinions so often and with such ease. Next month he may start claiming that all Blagoevgrad girls are hipboneless and skinny, not that we should pay much attention but sometimes I just can't resist. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[radi6404]

that´s bullshit, why just don´t look up, I said the Greek roads are very bad even then, and what a high living standart, please quote, because I can´t remember to have said that, I only remember that I said the thing with Goze Delchev and that Greek keep the old names, but I don´t remember anything with high standarts. aktually I was very dissapointed about the poor infrastructure and I have said that here. I wont think Bulgarian girls are hipboneless.

[insertnickhere]

After yesterdays massacre and today's pruning, ive no clue who is talking about what in here anymore so ill just address the original post

1. Which neighbouring country do you like the most?
- serbia and romania. just feels close to home in a lot of ways.

2. Which neighbouring country in your opinion is our "best friend"?
- none. there are no friends on the balkans. never have been. lets see if this will ever change

3. Which neighbouring country you dislike and why?
- do you really reall really really want me to answer that? well i wont. :threadlock: :ibtrolls:

4. Should we improve the economical and cultural relations with our neighbours?
- of course, but we also need to protect our own interests. there is little sense and point in importing goods from elsewhere while our own goods rot within our own borders since the market is flooded with imported stuff... agriculture and farming comes to mind. I would really like to see open borders between RO and BG in the future, as well as greece. Create our own shengen pact if you will.

[Le Clerk]

Guys, I thought this is a good place to bring this news (although I dunno if it's really news, depending on whether it's serious or not). I heard some news on TV this morning that Ruse and Giurgiu municipalities are going to build together a telecabin over the Danube to transport people from one city to the other. Any news about this in Bulgaria? I will come back later this evening with some sources for this. Don't have time now. :cheers:

Anyway, if this is true, I think it's a really awesome project....imagine to cross the Danube by telecabin!!! and imagine the level of tourism in the area the project could attract !!!!! :)

[paF4uko]

^^ I heard that too on a Bulgarian radio a few weeks ago. :)

[bgrs]

Yea, hopefully they build that faster than bridges so that I would see that ready in my lifetime..

[marillion]

I'm from a city 10km from bulgarian border..people aways had a great relashoship

[insertnickhere]

they are still trying to abolish the taxes over the existing bridge... good luck on the cable car thing. i dont see it happening, ever.

[bgrs]

Why not :) The bridge taxes are already higher than those for Golden Gate bridge. If we continue feeding some mysterious shady organizations like the infrastructure fund (that does not build any infrastructure, nor even maintain it), probably the cable car thing may become a very practical thing.

The taxes are not going to be abolished until the next elections, the comrades need money for election campaigns.

[paF4uko]

“Глобус”, Македония: България все още всява страх сред македонците
11 ноември 2008 | 07:31 | Агенция "Фокус"
Скопие/София. България все още всява страх сред македонците, пише днес македонското издание ”Глобус”. Стойко Стойков, съпредседател на ОМО “Илинден”-ПИРИН, говори пред изданието за проблемите при регистрирането на партията. На въпрос защо 10 години ОМО “Илинден”-ПИРИН не може да бъде регистрирана Стойков заявява, че заради натиск от Европейския съюз България прилагала същата тактика, ползвана през изминалите години.
“Когато наближаваше възможността за регистриране на ОМО “Илинден”-ПИРИН, България променяше закона за регистриране на политическите партии. Това го направи през 2002 година, когато беше увеличен броят на инициаторите от 50 на 500. Когато се очакваше да реализира присъдата на съда в Страсбург отново смени закона и от 500, станаха 5000 души. И сега, когато преминаваме този праг, има нова инициатива от българския президент Георги Първанов, която цели да елиминира малките регионални партии”, смята Стиойков. По думите му отричането на македонците от страна на България продължило и след присъединяването в ЕС. По думите на Стойков няма шансове в близко бъдеще София да признае македонското малцинство. Стойко Стойков твърди още, че официалният брой на македонците в България 5 000 не бил реален, тъй като на последното преброяване те са имали натиск да се определят като българи.

Pretty good example of attitude between neighbors. I don't think the law changes has something to do with the registration of OMO "Ilinden", because they define themselves as ethnic party, and those are forbidden by the Bulgarian constitution. And I really don't see the common interest of such parties. If those people want to participate in the political life of the state, they can come out with ideas that will be profitable for the whole population of the country and not only for their ethnic. Besides, these people are separatists. They have some sick ideas of appending Pirin Macedonia (Bulgaria) and Aegean Macedonia (Greece) to FYR Macedonia...

[Turnovec]

^^ Абе какво се занимаваш с политически и идеологически маргинали ? Целия електорат на тая партия може да се събере в две каруци ... За какво си говорим ? Тоя Стойко Стойков е на ясла в Скопие и само раздува разни небивалици, само и само да му дават кинти да живее ...

Аз по принцип съм ЗА регистрирането на тая партия ... не за друго ами за да се види колко са и какви са членовете и. Да се свърши със спекулациите и фантасмагориите дето предизвиква от другата страна на границата.

[paF4uko]

^^ Абе какво се занимаваш с политически и идеологически маргинали ? Целия електорат на тая партия може да се събере в две каруци ... За какво си говорим ? Тоя Стойко Стойков е на ясла в Скопие и само раздува разни небивалици, само и само да му дават кинти да живее ...

Аз по принцип съм ЗА регистрирането на тая партия ... не за друго ами за да се види колко са и какви са членовете и. Да се свърши със спекулациите и фантасмагориите дето предизвиква от другата страна на границата.

Наистина май ще е по-добре да ги регистрират и да се свършва с тая истерия.
Иначе в една политическа партия (независимо от кое пространство е) виждам смисъл ако защитава някакви обще интереси на страната, а не на някой етнос, регион или религия.

[Turnovec]

Наистина май ще е по-добре да ги регистрират и да се свършва с тая истерия.
Иначе в една политическа партия (независимо от кое пространство е) виждам смисъл ако защитава някакви обще интереси на страната, а не на някой етнос, регион или религия.

^^ Абе да ги регистрират , ама като не спазват закона няма как да стане ... Аз даже имам чувството, че нарочно го правят - ако ги регистрират няма да има за какво да хленчат, да мърморят и да събират вниманието на онея зомбираните антични буцефали оттатък Осогово ...

[Ivanski]

Тва са последни напъни на глупостта в тва изкуствено нещо бюрм, което май отива към съвсем естественото си приключване като измислена държавица, по-итнересно е в какво ще се трансформира.

[ВМРО]

Pretty good example of attitude between neighbors. I don't think the law changes has something to do with the registration of OMO "Ilinden", because they define themselves as ethnic party, and those are forbidden by the Bulgarian constitution. And I really don't see the common interest of such parties. If those people want to participate in the political life of the state, they can come out with ideas that will be profitable for the whole population of the country and not only for their ethnic. Besides, these people are separatists. They have some sick ideas of appending Pirin Macedonia (Bulgaria) and Aegean Macedonia (Greece) to FYR Macedonia...

I would be happy to see (H)OMO registered if they agree to register RADKO.Actually, they are registered here and took part in almost all elections.What they want is their organisation to receive a status of a political party which could happen only if they had 5000 signatures supporting its creation.

So, their government claims in its report for the Macedonian communities living abroad that there are at least 800.000 ethnic Macedonians living in Bulgaria whose number might be up to 1.3m depending on the level of assimilation and they are unable to collect 5000 signatures for a registration of political party to represent them:weird:

[MystN]

“Глобус”, Македония: България все още всява страх сред македонците
11 ноември 2008 | 07:31 | Агенция "Фокус"
Скопие/София. България все още всява страх сред македонците, пише днес македонското издание ”Глобус”. Стойко Стойков, съпредседател на ОМО “Илинден”-ПИРИН, говори пред изданието за проблемите при регистрирането на партията. На въпрос защо 10 години ОМО “Илинден”-ПИРИН не може да бъде регистрирана Стойков заявява, че заради натиск от Европейския съюз България прилагала същата тактика, ползвана през изминалите години.
“Когато наближаваше възможността за регистриране на ОМО “Илинден”-ПИРИН, България променяше закона за регистриране на политическите партии. Това го направи през 2002 година, когато беше увеличен броят на инициаторите от 50 на 500. Когато се очакваше да реализира присъдата на съда в Страсбург отново смени закона и от 500, станаха 5000 души. И сега, когато преминаваме този праг, има нова инициатива от българския президент Георги Първанов, която цели да елиминира малките регионални партии”, смята Стиойков. По думите му отричането на македонците от страна на България продължило и след присъединяването в ЕС. По думите на Стойков няма шансове в близко бъдеще София да признае македонското малцинство. Стойко Стойков твърди още, че официалният брой на македонците в България 5 000 не бил реален, тъй като на последното преброяване те са имали натиск да се определят като българи.

:crazy2:

Anyone knows whats the difference between OMO "Ilinden", OMO "Ilinden" - PIRIN and OMO PIRIN? :lol: And no, this is not a joke. (http://news.ibox.bg/material/id_1713953301/fpage_0/#clist)

[Turnovec]

^^ Теа мора да са ... :crazy2:

The Macedonians from Hunza are coming back home!.

http://e-vestnik.bg/imgs/mnenia_co/hunzi6544.jpg

G1BsUbnnJoI

[Le Clerk]

Why not :) The bridge taxes are already higher than those for Golden Gate bridge. If we continue feeding some mysterious shady organizations like the infrastructure fund (that does not build any infrastructure, nor even maintain it), probably the cable car thing may become a very practical thing.

The taxes are not going to be abolished until the next elections, the comrades need money for election campaigns.

It seems that there are two projects for a cable car: one for Giurgiu-Ruse and one for Zimnicea-Svistov. Both should be funded through the European Border Programme.

As to the taxes, I read that the Bulgarian and Romanian MEPs will submit an initiative for the 2 governments to lower them significantly. Let's see what will be the result.

[MystN]

^^Turnovec, will you read this for me, please? (The middle text)

http://www.earth-history.com/Egypt/_images/RosettaStone.gif

:lol::lol::rofl:

[Le Clerk]

^^Is this the feasibility study for the BG-RO cable car? :dunno:

[paF4uko]

Малееее.... еба си промитите мозъци...как са се облякли....като за цирк!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Ivanski]

^^ Теа мора да са ... :crazy2:

The Macedonians from Hunza are coming back home!.

http://e-vestnik.bg/imgs/mnenia_co/hunzi6544.jpg




Oh that's the famous ancient Macedonain red Tshirt .

[MystN]

Малееее.... еба си промитите мозъци...как са се облякли....като за цирк!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Пътят до Индия е дълъг. :lol::lol::rofl:

http://forum.all.bg/files/1947406-vistinski.jpg

http://img011.imgshare.eu/i/agler/vlasi_e08d6.jpg

[Le Clerk]

^^Best combination: white socks and black shoes. :lol:

[Ivanski]

The Macewalk

http://thinkersroom.com/blog/images/moonwalk.gif

[petet]

Hahahahaaha those squiralls are making shit with the Greeks :rofl:


the most stupid nation in the Balkans,they must to learn if they want to give a damn with someone,they must to know how to do it in the highest quality :lol:

[bgrs]

http://e-vestnik.bg/imgs/mnenia_co/hunzi6544.jpg

That can't be true...this...seriously....hmmm...I hope government official were not involved into that farce...well that's fucking funny. I mean...come on, even the Greeks would never get into such kind of historical clownade.

[MystN]

http://e-vestnik.bg/imgs/mnenia_co/hunzi6544.jpg

That can't be true...this...seriously....hmmm...I hope government official were not involved into that farce...well that's fucking funny. I mean...come on, even the Greeks would never get into such kind of historical clownade.


http://www.maticanaiselenici.com/images/news/vesti-gruevski%20-%20hunzi.jpg

:clown:

[bgrs]

Christ!

[SeyMan]

It's nice to see that our Bulgarian friends have a good opinion about Romania. We are 2 countries which are extremely similar. The only important difference I can think of is the language, but not much else (religion, mentality, history, degree of prosperity: all these are very close).

[vycanismajoris]

^^I fully agree.
By the way, judging by skyscrapercity, romanians are our best friends. No other nation is interested in Bulgaria as much as they are, these are mine observations so far :)

[panda80]

indeed, i'm very intrested in bulgaria development, i've been there 6 times and visited most parts of ur country.indeed many similarities between we and u.if taxes at giurgiu-ruse bridge weren't so high i would come to bulgaria almost once a month.

[BG_PATRIOT]

So we all agree! :cheers:

Let's revive the Bulgaro-Vlach Empire of the Assens :cheers:

PS: Jesus those FYROMians are on crack or something definitively causing similar effects :bash:

[Viva_Bulgaria]

^^^^ We all know that the term Vlach-Bulgarian Empire is a ridiculous creation of Romanians historians and I am sure that most Romanians don't believe in such stupidities :):):) It was only a Bulgarian Empire.

[BG_PATRIOT]

It's not true, maybe the kings and leaders of the Empire were pretty much all from Bulgarian dynasties and their capital was in Turnovo, the rebellion was made by both people Bulgarians and Vlachs, but anyhow this is not important, what is important that we have to work together for our economic growths. :cheers:

[Ivanski]

Well what's so strange about - empires usually contain more than one ethnic group, anyway such thing as Vlach-Bulgarian empire is not academically correct and it's pretty much b/s term , I guess that's what Viva meant.

[blago84]

According to what I remember, Kaloian's title was "King of Vlachia and Bulgaria", so... probably the empire was really Vlach-Bulgarian.

[Turnovec]

^^ I think that the only place this thing is mentioned is in the correspondence between Tsar Kaloyan and Pope Innocent III :

Innocent III had written to Kaloyan, inviting him to unite his Church with the Roman Catholic Church, as early as 1199. Wanting to bear the title of Emperor and to restore the prestige, wealth and size of the First Bulgarian Kingdom, Kaloyan responded in 1202. In this political maneuver, he requesed that Pope Innocent III bestow on him the imperial crown and sceptre that had been held by Simeon I, Peter I, and Samuel and in exchange he might consider communication with Rome. Kaloyan also wanted the Papacy to recognize the head of the Bulgarian Church as a Patriarch.[1] The pope was not willing to make concessions on that scale, and when his envoy, Cardinal Leo, arrived in Bulgaria, he anointed the Archbishop Vasilij of Tărnovo as Primate of Bulgarians and Vlachs. Kaloyan only received Uniate crown as rex Bulgarorum et Blachorum ("King of Bulgarians and Wallachians") or rex Bulgarie et Blachie ("King of Bulgaria and Wallachia"), not emperor. Blithely Kaloyan wrote to the pope, thanking him for an imperial coronation and for the anointing of his patriarch. He also assured him that he too will follow the Catholic Church rites, as part of the agreement. Meanwhile, in an attempt to foster an alliance with Kaloyan, the Byzantine Emperor Alexios III Angelos recognized his imperial title and promised him patriarchal recognition.

Tsar Kaloyan in a letter to Pope Innocent III states that the Bulgarian Tsars Peter, Samuil and others have received crowns from Rome

1202

In the first place we, as a beloved son, want from our mother, the Roman Church, a Tsar's crown and dignity, as our Emperors of old had them. As we find it recorded in our books, one was Peter, the second Samuil and others who preceded them on the throne.


ЛИБИ, III, p. 310, letter No. 2; р CCXIV, col. 1112 -1113, letter No. 115; I . Duichev, Correspondence of Pope Innocent III with the Bulgarians, ГСУ, ифф PP-22-23; letter No. 2; the original is in Latin


41

Pope Innocent III replies to Tsar Kaloyan's letter

1202

You, however, humbly asked the Roman Church to give you a crown, as it is said in your books that it was granted to Peter, Samuil and your other predecessors of illustrious memory ... We, therefore, gave instructions that our registers be carefully read the better to assure ourselves and we learned clearly that many tsars were crowned in the land subordinated to you.


ЛИБИ, Ш. p. 312, letter No. 3; Pgr CCXIV, col. 1113-1115, letter No. 116; I. Duichev, op. cit, PP- 22-25, letter No. 3; the original is in Latin


42

In a letter to Pope Innocent in Tsar Kaloyan calls the Bulgarian Tsars Simeon, Peter and Samuil his ancestors

1203

After that, last June, our Majesty sent our Archbishop and /head/ of the entire Bulgarian land and of the universal holy and great Church of Turnovo and a great man of my Kingdom, now raised to a Primate and Archbishop of all Bulgaria and Wallachia, named Vassilii, who, on his arrival in Drac was not allowed to proceed to Your Holiness, so that Your Holiness might fulfill the wish of our Majesty in accordance with the custom of my predecessors, the Tsars of the Bulgarians and the Wallachians - Simeon, Peter and Samuil, the ancestors of myself and of all other Tsars of the Bulgarians.

[Turnovec]

And btw ... Bulgaria and Romania might form a joint candidature to host the European Championship of Football in 2020 ...

България и Румъния кандидатстват за Евро 2020

България и Румъния възнамеряват да издигнат обща кандидатура за домакинството на Европейското първенство по футбол през 2020-а година.

Това разкри президентът на БФС Борислав Михайлов по време на посещението на боса на УЕФА Мишел Платини в София днес.

Легендарният футболист на Сент Етиен и Ювентус през 70-те и 80-те години на миналия век заяви, че тази идея тепърва трябва да се обмисля.

"Наистина има кандидатура на Българи и Румъния за Евро 2020. Федерациите на двете страни искат това домакинство. То трябва да е подкрепено и от ръководните органи в страните", призна Платини.

Спорт1 припомня, че преди повече от две години излезе за първи път информацията, че нашата страна и северната ни съседка желаят да са домакини на големия футболен форум.

Тогава президентът на Румънската футболна федерация Мирча Санду разкри за намеренията на двете държави, като целта е това да стане или през 2016-а, или 2020-а година.

[Ivanski]

Yup Michel Platini who's now in Sofia, just said it. It will be awesome , who knows may be we can actually prepare for 10 years, since Poland and Ukraine already won the first EE host of such tournament. :)

[BG_PATRIOT]

:cheers::cheers::cheers::cheers:

I've said it previously and say it again
- Pimp the National Stadium
- Renovated Plovdiv Stadium
- The new Stadium in Varna
- The project for the stadium in Burgas
- Either CSKA or Levski built a new stadium

and we got it :)....but that is still far away

[Ivanski]

It's more about infrastructure and organization that would deal managing such a tournament. Investments of stadiums are just a part of the whole thing.

[paF4uko]

^^ Yup... A good railway and road connectivity between Bulgarian and Romanian cities where the matches will be played is a must...

[BG_PATRIOT]

^^
^^

True we first need to built the Danube bridge 2 and then we could start dreaming :)

By that time prices of airplane tickets will have dropped to pennies

btw, my friend bought his NY-London ticket today from Ryan Air...total price plus all the extra expenses 278 CAD :)

[Turnovec]

I am pessimist about this though i will be very glad to see it happening... I just don't think we'll be ready till 2020 - Romanians could be, but we won't ... Not with Tomov & Batkov presidents of the 2 grands ... not with Bobby Mihailov as president of the Union... :ohno:

[BG_PATRIOT]

speaking of Platini :)

http://paper.standartnews.com/images/leading_pics/leading_2468_bg.jpg

Мишел Платини размаха кирката заедно с Боби Михайлов и проф. Лъчо Димитров за първата копка на националната футболна база в НСА

[Turnovec]

http://e-vestnik.bg/5073

Библейска Македония, сръбски забавления и нещастни българи

Прелет над написаното за един ден в Република Македония

Четенето на македонски вестници може да става и през по-големи времеви интервали – като гледането на латиноамерикански сериал. Темите са в общи линии едни и същи и се редуват, а развитието е оставено за епизод 4321. Особено що се отнася до отношението към съседите България, Гърция и Сърбия.

Ако погледнем македонската преса от произволен ден, да кажем четвъртък, 20 ноември, със сигурност ще разберем, че Македония вече се опитва да съди почти всичко гръцко, което е възможно. Светът изглежда подреден – според челната страница на вестник „Време“, Гърция е в дефанзива и търси начин да се оправдае в Хага, след като Македония я обвини в съда, че е попречила на приемането на страната в НАТО. Македонското правителството пък е в офанзива към бъдещето - „Иднината е засадена и напоена“. Става въпрос за странната инициатива на правителството тип комунистическа бригада - „Ден на дървото“. За втори път половин Македония сади дръвчета, а вестник „Шпиц“ показва известната и у нас певица Каролина, която докато се грижи за бъдещето на Македония, се опитва да спаси обувките си от калта - с найлонови торбички.

Но всякакви жертви си заслужават за Македония, която според юриста Томе Зимбаков, автор във „Време“, е библейска земя. Зимбаков цитира пасаж от Библията, където се споменават древните македонци, дали принос за бедните светии в Йерусалим. Тълкуванието на този текст във „Време“ обаче е интересно: „Истината е, че светът трябва да знае, че Македония е грехът на Гърция, която по отношение на Македония погази божиите заповеди: не убивай, не кради, не богохулствай, не искай чуждо.“ Според Зимбаков „светът трябва и заслужава да узнае истината за Македония – че отоманска Македония е библейска Македония“.

Тази библейска Македония е особено видна от следващата страница на „Време“, където надълго се анализира „Операция Триумф“ - новото балканско музикално шоу, в което обаче участват представители само от бивша Югославия. Предаването е голям хит в Македония и се излъчва директно на сръбски – без превод. Един от македонските участници – младо момче, вече напусна шоуто, защото не разбираше добре сръбски и събра присмеха на всички останали претенденти за победител в „Операция Триумф“.

И ако там поне има македонски участници, следващата страница на „Време“ е отделена за изцяло сръбския Survivor, който обаче се излъчва с голям успех в Македония. Шоуто там е известно като „Преживеан“ и поне има субтитри на македонски. Друга водеща новина е идването в Македония на черногорския певец Боян Марович. Известният с просръбските си чувства изпълнител е за 16-и път в страната, като този път е поканен да сади дръвчета като част от „Деня на дървото“.

Популярната и у нас македонска певица Каролина сади дърветата на бъдещето с торбички на краката. Снимка: в. “Шпиц”

При това положение нищо чудно, че в скорошно телевизионно участие бившият премиер на Македония Любчо Георгиевски обвини правителството на ВМРО-ДПМНЕ в „тотална югословенизация на обществото“. Запитан какво прави, когато вече не се занимава с политика, Георгиевски иронично обясни, как вечер пуска македонската телевизия, гледа „Операция Триумф“, след това сръбския Survivor, а накрая дежурния сръбски филм от времето на Югославия.

Мнението на Георгиевски обаче не тежи много – особено откак стори големия грях да вземе български паспорт. Подобни прегрешения се прощават на много малко фигури от македонската история – като Кръсте Мисирков, да кажем. В страниците си за култура, вестник „Време“ пише, че „идеалите на Мисирков са живи и днес“. 20 ноември е годишнина от раждането на Мисирков, който се смята за основоположник на македонския литературен език и съвременната македонска държава. Същият противоречив Мисирков завършва живота си като учител по български език в Копривщица, а в една от статиите си пише: „Но ето, че се раздават викове на самите македонци: ние сме българи, повече българи от самите българи в България… Вий сте могли да победите България, да й наложите каквито си щете договори, но с това не се изменя нашето убеждение, нашето съзнание, че ний не сме сърби, че ний досега сме се казвали българи, тъй се казваме и днес и така искаме да се казваме и в бъдеще.“

Днес тази статия предпочитано се премълчава, а търсенията в миналото са подчертано избирателни. Както в новата книга на Йордан Йорданов „Македония: корени и аргументи“, откъси от която публикува във всеки брой вестник „Време“. Там съдбата на Егейска Македония се вижда като червена нишка в историята, която и сега обуславя конфликтите между Македония и Гърция. В статията от четвъртък са цитирани стари вестници, които говорят за 200 000 българи в Егейска Македония в началото на 20 в. и 400 000 гърци, както и за български ръководители на македонските въстаници. Авторът Йорданов обаче директно интерпретира българите като македонци…

Като македонец се вижда и намереният 9000-годишен скелет край Щип, който сега отива да бъде изследван в Англия. Скелетът бързо получи името Славе Македонски, макар още да не е ясно дали е бил славянски македонец, античен македонец или от народа на хунзите. Във всеки случай, повод за негово честване ще има. Вестник „Шпиц“ припомня, че през 2009 г. се навършват сто години от раждането на композиторите Трайко Прокопиев, Тодор Скаловски и… поета Никола Вапцаров. От изданието обвиняват Македонската академия за наука и изкуства (МАНУ), че не предлага на Комисията по култура поводи за годишнини. От 166 (!?) предложения до комисията, нито едно не от МАНУ, която „забравя или бойкотира важните юбилеи“.

В Охрид обаче явно няма да празнуват никакви годишнини, защото според прогнозата за времето на „Шпиц“ там ще е 83 градуса по Целзий… Известният с още по-горещата си подкрепа към правителството вестник „Вечер“ пък се радва, че след разрива по случая Косово, Сърбия отново иска македонски посланик. Между другото се споменава, че Македония има посолства, но не и посланици в пет страни – Катар, Израел, Индия, Швейцария и… България.

За сметка на това има силни връзки с братски страни като Япония. „Вечер“ съобщава, че от Япония са връчили специален орден на д-р Коста Балабанов, председател на Сдружението за македоно-японско приятелство и сътрудничество. Впрочем, д-р Балабанов е наследник на известния Александър Балабанов, български литературовед и критик, преподавател в Софийския университет и член на Македонския научен институт (основан от Иван Михайлов). Балабанов е изпълнител на важни мисии, възлагани му от ВМРО, с цел привличане на вниманието на европейските общности към българите в македонските земи. През 1913 г. Александър Балабанов пише, че в България избягвали да споменават за Македония „едва неискаме да създадем закон да не се споменува за наша Македония, както са направили едно време древните атиняни за своя остров Саламин, отнет им от по-силните врагове.” А Саламин е бил островът на героизма и подвига на атиняни, както за българите – Македония. Но едва ли и д-р Коста Балабанов иска да си спомня за подобни неща – би му се развалило щастието от японския орден.

А щастието, за жалост, не достига и в Македония. Но и в това има поводи за радост: „От македонците по-нещастни са само българите“, прави важното уточнение вестник „Вест“ на първа страница. Радостта се засилва от факта, че неудобните на властта на ВМРО-ДПМНЕ театрални режисьори Александър Поповски и Слободан Унковски са в Сърбия и постановките им са гледани и високо оценени от местния елит. В Белград са и представители на „Вест“: „всички, с които разговаряхме, изразяват своето въодушвеление от представленията и особено от двамата режисьори, които поради дългогодишните си ангажименти в сръбската столица, наричат нашите Ацо и Унко.“

Какво ли ще стане, ако в България наречем някой македонец „нашият“…

[Olympios]

http://e-vestnik.bg/imgs/mnenia_co/hunzi6544.jpg

That can't be true...this...seriously....hmmm...I hope government official were not involved into that farce...well that's fucking funny. I mean...come on, even the Greeks would never get into such kind of historical clownade.

How dare you say? :ohno:
G1BsUbnnJoI&feature=related
(pity that you won't understand the ancient Macedonian language)

They will be coming for you...:nuts:

http://www.antickimakedonci.com.mk/images/sliki_images/28.jpg

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/8605/13vu9.jpg

[bgrs]

^^ From that site....

http://www.antickimakedonci.com.mk/images/pristapnica.jpg

Hmmm...errrr....hmmm....well...no, actually I can't comment on that. Does anyone want to become an ancient Macedonian? Yes, just fill in your religion and nationality. LOL :)

And wtf is that crippled version of the cyrillic alphabet, probably this way it looks more like the antickimakedonskiot alphabet or what?!? Never knew "q" is "d" and "b" is "v"...and "i" is "g"....

But then actually it occurred to me that we have a similar organization, called "Warriors of Tangra" (Tangra being a proto-Bulgarian pagan god). But AFAIK even those nazi lunatics don't consider themselves to be ancient proto-Bulgarians. WTF will someone name his organisation after a tribe that exists no more....weird.



http://www.antickimakedonci.com.mk/images/sliki_images/15.jpg

http://www.antickimakedonci.com.mk/images/sliki_images/26.jpg

Konstantin was Roman, Justinian - Byzantine, Cleopatra - Egyptian for Christ's sake. What do they have in common with Macedonians?!?

[Cyberflow]

To put it in short, all neighbours suck. We suck too. The whole Bolkan Peninsula sucks. But Romania earned my eternal respect for not recognizing the criminal state Kosovo, created by the western 'democracies' to run their dirty businesses there. Yup, they deserve respect for that.

[Ivanski]

They were actually more concerned about their own territorial issues , just pretty much like every European state that didn't recognize it. The politics is all about interests.

[bgrs]

Yeah tough guys with hard balls and rock-solid principles should limit their foreign policy expirience to internet forums only. Politics is not about that (and it never was anyway).

[Cyberflow]

Whatever the cause, they did it and we didn't, regardless that we are about to have the same issues...

[paF4uko]

http://www.antickimakedonci.com.mk/images/sliki_images/26.jpg

What did they smoke? - I want the same thing!!!