Some aspects imrpove (not the use of eletrocincs)

[radi6404]

So as we entered the European Union many things began (or not) to imrpove, roads, buildings, railways and so on. There are more investments of private companies then ever before but the use of electronics in Bulgaria doesn´t increase siginficantly and that´s only because people aren´t used to them, it wont increase next time either because anyone who knows how Bulgarian people act, except in big towns like Sofia knows that they don´t care at all.

Bulgarians don´t use computers extensively and many don´t have a clue about computers which is very bad. I am not talking about specialists like bgrs but he´s definatly an exception. That´s the reason why my cousin can´t download their pics from cellphone because all her friends have no cardreader which is standart on the computer market since 2003, the computers their friends have however are bought in 2005/2006. They are not educated at all, reach parents bought some of her friends an AMD Sempron 3000+ computer, singlecored with 1,8 GHz clockspeed and 512 MB Ram altough in 2006 the standart was Athlon 64 X2 4800+ if not the first core2duo were out then, 2006 dualcore cpus were standart wtih clockspedds of 2 GHz reaching to 3 GHz then. They don´t have a clue at all and claim very old graphics cards like the radeon 9800PRo are very fast altough there are 10 times faster graphics cards and ATI is 4 series ahead of the 9xxx Series.

The next thing is, they have no clue about mp3 players, in many countries mp3 players are used extensively and you see lots of people outside with earplugs, Bulgarians don´t use mp3 players, they spend their money on cellphone for example boys to impress girls by getting out a cellphone and playing some Bulgarain rap with the crappiest soundquality possible, then they are so retarted and say (ebat i svuka vadi tozi telefon). Excuse me, a cellphone which is mono has good sound, poor dude, I advice you throw out your 50 leva creative PC speakers and buy some expensive stuff, but I guess they have never heart what´s good soundquality. I am talking about Bulgarian youth. The ironic part is, even Bulgarians working in Hifi stores laugh about those idiots aswell. It´s not laughable, it´s tragic.

They don´t know much about electronics and it will not improve in near future, some still think adding a 256 MB Ram unit is good nowadways where 4 and 8 GB is standart for computers. I am clueless why noone mentioned that lots of Bulgarian people lack electronic knowledge. Unfortunately I know many boys with plan to buy a booming Subwoofer for the car to impress girls with chalga and Bulgarian rap which is silly. I hear chalga everywhere and in Bulgaria it is very popular, this just show how uneducated so many kiddies in Bulgaria are, there are individualists fortunately but too few. CKAT are apsolutely right to eliminate this pervert music, most serious TV channels except commercial BTV shit say chalga is bad for children and teenagers. But how can chalga be avoided when their dumb parents switch to Planeta whenever possible and hear Radio Ultra or similar in their cars blasting over some cheap speakers and the worst thing is, they find it cool when the sound is bad and the speakers rattle and distord the sound, how can people be that dumb?

This thread is not useless, this is fact in many towns in Bulgaria, even bigger towns and 1 big step would be to improve the English education so that Bulgarian kiddies will aktually use it for browsing the internet and get an idea what a compuer is and what a good mp3 player is, then sign in on Enlgish forums and get tought about up-to-date electronics.

[bgrs]

I cannot hold you responsible for hanging out with those subwoofer guys.

OTOH I bought an Athlon64 amx2 CPU just recently because I host a webserver on my home PC and decided to run it into a KVM virtual machine, just lacked the VCPUs.

This thread is really a joke, just go on to Struma, etc where ranting really makes sense.

[radi6404]

The Athlon 64 AM2 cpus are not bad, they are not enough for current games and hungry music and photoediting applications unless they have high clockspeeds of at least 3,2 GHz. The Phenon X3 and X4 processors are better, they have the K10 architecture. The new Intel I7 are almost out on some stores and seem to be very good, the quad and dualcore series of Intel are amazing, they offer great performance at low speeds and can overclock very well. The E8400 for example has a clockspeed of 3 GHz but it can overclock to 4,2 or more on air, on water it can overclock up to 5 GHz which is incredible, but that´s because of the 45 nm production. Some quadcores can overclock very well, they offer extreme performance for the applications which support quadcores.

[Ivanski]

Radi is it possible to focus the forum on some serious issues about Bulgaria's development more, and less about your asphalt, pavement tales and PC fetishism ...

[radi6404]

Ivanski, it´s about the development more than you think. I hope you can think that far as to make the conclusion that it takes more than new asphalt and Sofia metro and airports to be european. It´s also about the mentallity, the education and so on. If people can´t speak and read English, and most Bulgarians can´t speak English well because of the very poor languace education in Bulgaria except on school with languace as focus (they are good), people wont be able to inform about current electronics and will keep buying outdated shit and wont be able to download the pics of their camera or cellphone without wires and driver cds because they don´t even have a clue what a fucking cardreader is. I think I know one famaly who owns computers with cardreaders, altough cardreaers are standart since 2003.

[bgrs]

Well I do not play games, playing mp3s and flacs works OK for me, gimp as an amateur photoediting software works OK as well.

Decoding most audio formats is not so CPU intensive, in fact most of the problems a desktop (and not only) user come from I/O-intensive operations like reading from disks and networks. Excluding the gaming case which I'm not familiar with and I really don't care about.

As for Intel or AMD...Intel tend to get better at SSE instructions (which I really use only when playing videos)...and they have more L2 cache (means more TLB cache, means less pagefaults, means probably better RAM utilization). I prefer AMD though...they consume less power.

Seriously I don't see a point of using bleeding-edge hardware, I really doubt most Bulgarians should use it as well. People use hardware that suits their needs.

[radi6404]

OMG, you talk shit BGRS, I expected you to have better compuer knowledge.

"As for Intel or AMD...Intel tend to get better at SSE instructions (which I really use only when playing videos)...and they have more L2 cache (means more TLB cache, means less pagefaults, means probably better RAM utilization). I prefer AMD though...they consume less power."

That´s just silly, the Intel arcihtecutre is way ahead of the AMD architecture and Intel in fact uses way less power nowadays, I can link you up 10 benchmarks which show that Athlon 64 X2 processors consume way more energy and are way hotter, and you know why, because they are 90 mn, the latest models are 65 mn, I think there are some Phenons with 45 nm but I am not sure about it, but please, before you claim something, inform. you know that processors with bigger nm are hotter and consume more power, and the core2 processors are way faster in anything than AMD, just look for benchmarks.

It´s not about using cutting edge quadcore processors with clockspeeds of 3,8 GHz and graphics and a crossfire system with 2 X 4870 X2 which would consume 600 Watts on load probably. But most kiddies here have singlecore processors with clockspeeds of 1,8 GHz and not even a cardreader and that´s just hilarous.

[bgrs]

Hah, OK so we got an Intel fan. Not bad, not bad.

Anyway...wtf are you talking about? Less nm generally means less power usage but that depends on design. Intel chips are still very bad on TDP. Means thermal energy wasted. Even with 65nm, AMD chips generally waste less watts than the 45nm intel coreduo CPUs.

Besides that, the intel chipset is stupid when running linux on it. I have an intel machine it has lots of problems trying to support the IOAPIC onboard. I used it as a home router/samba server, it fails to balance interrupt affinities right.

And that's the desktop case (which in windows world tends to be heavily leaned towards Intel). Imagine you have a multi-processor server for example with Intel sharing MMUs between CPUs and the same memory bus. Just stop it. As much as I don't give a lot of attention towards CPU wars, that's stupid. Again, sorry, you gamers have a different view on that.

And stop believing each benchmark you see on the net.

[Ivanski]

Radi that thread is full of shit.. you're judging by your personal xp and relatives, and friends which is very stupid.
In fact even during the 90s here, may be 2/3 of my friends were into computers. And it wasn't easy those times I can tell you that, and believe me they were pretty progressive for that time and options for a middle class mid90s dudes in BG. And a big number of them are now working in the IT sphere. In fact one of my neighbors was buying software online (with foreign card) in 1996 using shitty "duplex" btk deal-up connection with 9600k modem. So I guess I should start a thread about how all BG are high-tech maniacs or something :nuts:
In fact many BG developers are working abroad since years.
So do you really have to start a thread about anything you assume it's right or wrong ?

[radi6404]

I own an AMD processor and regret that I didn´t inform well enough to buy Intel. Youare right, the memory bandwith is way better because of the intermal memory controller, but for a homeuser it isn´t very useful, the cores and clockspeed that calculate the sutff are more important. In your case it seems the intermal memory controller is better for you. The new Intel coreI7 have an intermal memory controller and they returned hyperthreaking. Now users wont have any advantage in buying an AMD processor.

[radi6404]

Radi that thread is full of shit.. you're judging by your personal xp and relatives, and friends which is very stupid.
In fact even during the 90s here, may be 2/3 of my friends were into computers. And it wasn't easy those times I can tell you that, and believe me they were pretty progressive for that time and options for a middle class mid90s dudes in BG. And a big number of them are now working in the IT sphere. In fact one of my neighbors was buying software online (with foreign card) in 1996 using shitty "duplex" btk deal-up connection with 9600k modem. So I guess I should start a thread about how all BG are high-tech maniacs or something :nuts:
In fact many BG developers are working abroad since years.
So do you really have to start a thread about anything you assume it's right or wrong ?

OMG, how dumb is that? Are we talking about some exceptions or about the people in general, in general people have no clue and don´t even buy a cardreader, ofcourse there are very well educated computer users in Bulgaria who are way ahead of me, but tell me why in general they still have computers 3 generations behind with no cardreader and don´t use mp3 players, and please don´t mention money, there are a lot of wealthy people in Bulgaria now.

[Ivanski]

And why the heck you think a regular PC user is interesting in this stuff anyway.. I hoped you're smart enough to get that there are people who're working professionally with computers, and other bigger% who don't. So all that specifics usually doesn't matter for a regular PC use, in fact some of the PC measuring doesn't matter at all. Because the people who use computer for work usually are aware with what they should buy to get their work done. The rest it's just marketing b/s. All the new stuff is very users-friendly anyway and if anyone really needs to use it ,won't be a big problem to deal with.

[bgrs]

It depends on how "stuff" is written. But even in the gamers' case with your heavy-duty multi-$$$ video-cards, the bandwidth of the FSB is more important. I mean a great percentage of the graphics calculations are done in the GPU and the GPU communicates with the CPU you run your application on via the FSB.

And yes, I admit I'm not a gamer so I don't know how the things are going in that sphere. Anyway, I'm into servers and I have I think enough desktop experience (means movies, browsing, mp3s, etc). I very rarely see systems with high CPU utilization. Most of the time the CPU is waiting for I/O resources. Say the SATA bus, say the network, but not the CPU time anyway.

As for the performance tests, they all depend on the type of workload, that's why people should not trust them. Real world is different and benchmarks tend to be performed by not-so-independant institutions.

Alright, I am not an AMD advocate. Buy an Intel CPU if you need to, it's up to you.

[radi6404]

I know that FSB speed is important, that´s why I increased the Hypertransport channel speed by 200 MHz, I felt the difference.

Ivanski, I am not a moron, I told you they don´t even have cardreaders which is incredible. They can´t get out the SD card from their camera and put it into the computer but they have to be complicated wtih wires. Do you know how cheap a cardreader is, it´s 20 lv. And tell me why they have no clue about sound and mp3 players, Just admit that they are far behind european standarts when it comes to use of electronics, they don´t use mp3 players, have outdated computers and crappy soundsystem, that is the case in general, in bigger cities it´s better and there are some exceptions who are up to date. For example I know a very reach family, one of the suns has bought an BMW 5 brandnew but 1 year ago he was impressed by the sound of the Nokia N-series and said, just look how great the music sounds, excuse me, how can music sound great comong from a cellphone loudspeaker

[3tmk]

you know, there is a computer thread in the science subsection of the DLM.

[radi6404]

The thread is about Bulgarians and how they use electronics, not about computers.

[bgrs]

So it boils down to: Bulgarians take stupid decisions as far as hardware upgrades are concerned. That's right (and I've made that mistake on a number of occasions - even though I think I know what I am doing - lost some bucks due to that).

Bulgarians don't buy card readers - hmmm dunno. Probably true, probably wrong.

Bulgarians don't use mp3 players - definitely wrong as far as my observations speak of. Actually I don't know someone that does not own one. Really.

Bulgarians do not generally use cutting-edge hardware. True. Thanks God for that. It's a huge loss of electricity and computing power for nothing. And that SETI program is no more since years, what a waiste...

[3tmk]

well what do you expect Radi?

This isn't Japan or Korea.

Besides, I wouldn't consider bulgarians as helpless with computers as you say

[radi6404]

3tmk, do you know how different the situation for example even in Germany is, way different.

BGRS, I don´t know lots of people with mp3 players, sorry to dissapoint you, how many guys do you see with earplugs for example on a long bus journey, I don´t see any or maybe 1 or 2. And that only whent he buses are going to big cities. Here I see lots of people with earplugs when travelling.

[ВМРО]

Radi, I can't understand why you are so obsessed with the latest models computers.1 month ago I bought a good notebook but for the last 5 years I've been using a PC from 2003 with Pentium 4 2.4ghz processors, 512 ram, 128mb 4200 rpm video card and I certainly didn't have a complex from this fact.The only games I used to play were MMORPGs which have comparatively low requirements.The rest was internet and different programmes.And BTW I don't possess a flash memory card or a mp3 player and have absolutely no intentions to buy in the future because my mobile phone makes them utterly unnecessary and useless.So, I had to move to a cave primitive technologies.

Statements like "Bulgarians don't use computers" are complete bullshit.From my ex classmates only one girl didn't have a PC at home because she was from a poor family but that didn't prevent her from being the best student in the school and maybe in the town, no matter whether you believe it or not.

It's almost impossible to find somebody under 30 who doesn't have at least basic knowledge in working with a PC.Those who are problematic are the people above 45-50 who didn't manage to accustom to the new political system in the last 2 decades and it won't be exaggerated if I say that they are literally living in the times of centrally-planned economy.It's not up to money because in their own home their own children use a PC.The problem is in their heads and their unwillingness to change themselves with constantly changing life.

I'm a big pessimist that Bulgaria will have a fully-operational online government because there isn't a politician who has the courage to fire the expendable administration and to change it with free internet services.From what I know the only country from the ex Iron Curtain which has effectively working E-Government is Estonia.

[Ivanski]

damn youtube seems messed up 2day, I wanted to give a shot to Radi with some suitable track :lol:

[bgrs]

Dunno, I don't travel by bus. I drive.

[radi6404]

BMPO, I didn´t say the kiddies don´t have compuers, it´s about what compuers they have and that they don´t upgrade and when they upgrade, they get wrong advices because even the people working in computer stores have no clue. They would recommend a very slow 8600GT altough there is 3870 from ATI a bit more expensive but more then twice as fast, they have no clue, that´s my point, who has said they don´t use computers at all, certainly not me. And I understand that the older generations don´t use computers, that´s not only in Bulgaria like that but that´s not a problem for me. The problem is that kiddies and even pc sellers don´t have a clue about hardware and performance and many users are using shit system that are even overprised. And sorry, a computer that lacks a cardreader nowaday is like a computer without DVd, but don´t worry, many kiddies don´t even have a DVD drive altough they have new computers.

[bgrs]

Shit I have a card reader for years and I used it only 2-3 times when my camera got out of power and the power unit was not here. Why is that card reader so important anyway?

[radi6404]

Because you don´t have to use any wires, since I have a cardreader back when I bought a high end system at the beginning of 2005 with Athlon 64 cpu, (then AMD was the fastest to get) I didn´t use any wire to connect hardware. When I want to download the pics from my camera, I insert the card, no install, nothing, add new files if I want, that´s it. Whne I want to download the pics of my cellphone and add new pics or mp3 files I insert the card, finish it and that´s it. Don´t you get that a cardreader is very important and useful and that it fucking is standart for 5 years now and you don´t have to install camera and cellphone drivers which can be complicated in some cases when the software is poor.

[bgrs]

Actually not. My GPRS traffic is almost free and I can download whatever I want (including files from my home webserver). But OK, I work for a mobile telco. Probably it's a weird case. I rarely upload anything to my cellphone though, hate cellphones really. I use it mostly to talk and rarely send SMS'. As for the SMS and the next generation idiot services (MMS)...it's all the stupid customers' fault. If it depended on me, they would not exist at all.

[radi6404]

BGRS, you are not the most important person in the world (many Bulgarians think they are), because you think it´s not important does it mean it isn´t important. Why the fuck can´t my cousin download her cellphone pics anywhere except on my computer when I am in Bulgaria? BGRS, soory to be harsh, but it can´t be that you only see your situation and don´t just admit a cardreader is very important to easily transfer data between cameera/cellphone and computer.

[insertnickhere]

car readers are not standard and certainly not since 2003. 2006 and later select models, mostly from sony and mostly laptops have them..... get your facts straight for once.

you can buy a usb one though.


intel blew amd out the water over a year ago. amd was a trend, a bad one that had to die. power consumption is absolutely nil issue in desktops and even in laptops today, your GPU will suck way more than ANY cpu you can shove in there.... and cool it that is.

gprs is so slow i doubt you can use more than 10mb a month. so much for free data.. now EVDO is another thing, but guess what, we dont have that. gprs is dead and buried, like isdn

[ВМРО]

BMPO, I didn´t say the kiddies don´t have compuers, it´s about what compuers they have and that they don´t upgrade and when they upgrade, they get wrong advices because even the people working in computer stores have no clue. They would recommend a very slow 8600GT altough there is 3870 from ATI a bit more expensive but more then twice as fast, they have no clue, that´s my point, who has said they don´t use computers at all, certainly not me. And I understand that the older generations don´t use computers, that´s not only in Bulgaria like that but that´s not a problem for me. The problem is that kiddies and even pc sellers don´t have a clue about hardware and performance and many users are using shit system that are even overprised. And sorry, a computer that lacks a cardreader nowaday is like a computer without DVd, but don´t worry, many kiddies don´t even have a DVD drive altough they have new computers.
IMALO.
Now I'm a modern person living in 21st century since I've just discovered that my notebook has a card reader supporting different formats:lol:

[paF4uko]

This thread is so ridiculous! AMD vs Intel - wtf?! What's the point!?
bgrs, I'm running my gentoo linux on intel centrino and I have no probs. It works fine to me and I easily do my job - that's what's important to me. :)
Radi, my machine is old (2,5 years) and doesn't have any special graphics card. It's small and very basic. So I guess after you know this you can say that I'm ignorant user who doesn't know shit about computers...

[Ivanski]

wtf youtube tags don't work anymore...

[Turnovec]

This thread is so ridiculous!

^^ Hah! It is actually rAdiculous :lol: ...

What did you expected ... just see its author(:clown:) and everything is already crystal clear.

[radi6404]

This thread is so ridiculous! AMD vs Intel - wtf?! What's the point!?
bgrs, I'm running my gentoo linux on intel centrino and I have no probs. It works fine to me and I easily do my job - that's what's important to me. :)
Radi, my machine is old (2,5 years) and doesn't have any special graphics card. It's small and very basic. So I guess after you know this you can say that I'm ignorant user who doesn't know shit about computers...

You all talk such a pile of bullshit that I really wonder how well your knowledge of computers aktually is. It is normal that graphics cards nowadays consume a lot of energy when they calculate up to 1200 Gigaflops, a cpu for example can calculate 20 Gigaflops. And the graphics cards don´t consume that much energy, there are still energy efficient graphics cards that even underclock in windows to save even more energy. There are some energy monsters, but they are for the high end enthusiasts, other users who have knowledge would buy some more energy friendly graphics cards. And Intel vs AMD is not silly anymore, there was a time AMD was way faster but Intel improved much and now Intel is way faster and also more energy efficient, if you don´t believe me just look for fucking benchmarks, Intel also has the better overclocking potencial and overclocking is very important nowadays, many people do it to easily win performance.

And in Germany at least, cardreaders where standart since 2003 in most computers except the cheapest, not to talk about 2005 and later, now all computers have cardreader. If you poor dudes don´t know it, even Bios provides flash over cards plugged into the cardreader and you can boot your OS from card directly and that was the standart of 2005. So if anyone is saying cardreader was n´t standart altough even Bios supported it since 3 - years and you could boot your OS since 4 years overa cardreader, I really don´t know what bullshit you are talking here. I remember that even the bad OEM bios of my old computer bought at the beginning of 2005 provided the cardreader as a boot device.

[paF4uko]

^^ Thank you for the illumination, Radi! I can now burn my degree in computer science!

Now, seriously:
1. I bet I booted linux from an usb memory drive long before you knew it was ever possible (same for the card readers).
2. AMD vs Intel is not the subject of this forum, so cut the crap off!
3. I don't play games so I don't need any sophisticated graphics card. An onboard chipset is enough.

[radi6404]

Paf4uko, I am not referring to you, if you think most people in Bulgaria have good computer knowledge and knowledge about up-to-date electronics, then I should make a survey in Blagoevgrad for example asking random people in random age groups (preferring young people) with various questions about computers and electronics, for fuck´s sake, do you think I would meet many people with up-to-date knowledge, please answer me.

[bgrs]

car readers are not standard and certainly not since 2003. 2006 and later select models, mostly from sony and mostly laptops have them..... get your facts straight for once.

There are 3.5'' card reader panels for desktop cases since a lot of time. Just as a proof, that's my ugly desktop PC, bought it in 2004 (with the reader included):

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3045/3011979419_5b6c30dcc4_b.jpg

you can buy a usb one though.

Yes, it connects to the USB ports on the motherboard actually. A PCI card reader would not be very convinient I think.

intel blew amd out the water over a year ago. amd was a trend, a bad one that had to die.

Could you please explain which exactly was a bad one and why did it have to die?

power consumption is absolutely nil issue in desktops and even in laptops today, your GPU will suck way more than ANY cpu you can shove in there.... and cool it that is.

Power consumption is always an issue. Probably not a big one but still an issue.

gprs is so slow i doubt you can use more than 10mb a month. so much for free data.. now EVDO is another thing, but guess what, we dont have that. gprs is dead and buried, like isdn

I use about on the average 10-20 MB mostly because I upload or download some photo or an mp3 from the phone and very rarely use it to browse when out of the town. With the crappy 32MB flash card on it, I really don't need more.

Besides, you mistake GPRS for WAP (CSD) which is really slow, GPRS typically is a little faster than the 56kbit modems. Besides the UMTS coverage is a lot better nowadays and the speeds are usually more than 300kbit/s. It's quite enough for uploading/downloading photos and mp3s to/from the phone. As for EV-DO, it is a CDMA technology, not a GSM one. It is the equivalent of the GSM's HSDPA standarts (which are being deployed as we speak). AFAIK we don't have a CDMA network deployed in Bulgaria (Mobikom was going to introduce one years ago but nothing).

[Ivanski]

Wow it looks like a coffee machine , bgrs :D clean it up a bit man :D

[bgrs]

I kick it from time to time, wonderful how solid that chinese junk appears to be - not a single evidence of that :)

And I have poured cofee and beer a number of times on it. The DVD for example could not open for some time because I needed to cut the sugar from the cofee with a knive. Funny :)

[paF4uko]

What is up-to-date knowledge for some average user? My grandfather's 83 years old and uses linux. :D I don't think users should know things about how hardware or software work. They actually just have to know how to use it.
If you do your inquiry in France, I bet you'll get the same results as in Bulgaria. And if you ask how many computer users know about the existence of different OS than Windows, you'll get a higher percentage in Bulgaria for the simple fact that there you can buy your computer either with Linux or Windows (or nothing!). In France ALL the computers on the market are sold with Windows and you are obliged to pay for the license. Besides, you pay for plenty of other licenses, because they put on the machines all the possible shit that you wouldn't buy otherwise.
Of course there are always some Mac-illuminated people, but I don't take them into account. ;)

[radi6404]

Paf4uko, yet again you talk such a bullshit, that you amaze me. If you think for example you can´t buy in Germany for France computers wtih other OS or no OS from online stores or from some local stores than you are pretty dumb. In Bulgaria most kiddies wouldn´t know what cpu is up-to-date, what gpu is up-to-date, what the standart for RAM is today, whether it is DDR2 or allready DDR3, they wouldn´t know what a hypertransport channel is and so on. Paf4uko, hwo can you be so dumb and aktually think Bulgarians are well educated about computers, is everything ok with you, you could have mentioned a coutry where people use lots of computers in europe but not Bulgaria, I don´t know how it is in France but I know that in Bulgaria most don´t know a thing about computers, even the people who sell them, but I guess you are affraid to admit it because you don´t know much about computers aswell. Even I am a noob, because I havn´t installed a cpu or a motherboard yet, all I have done is installing grpahics card and RAM and HDD but most kiddies don´t dare even to open the case because they think they would loose the varrianty, altough it is against the law to forbid people to upgrade their computers.

[paF4uko]

Radi, what I said is that if you go to some computer store in France and buy an already built configuration you get all the software crap with it! I'm not talking about online stores or particular orders in small shops. Most French people would buy their computer at Auchan or Carrefour!

I am not afraid to admit anything, because obviously you don't know who you are talking with. :lol: Putting the CPU or the memory in the slot does not require any special skills. :lol:

[bgrs]

Radi would you please stop insulting people? You try to imply that all Germans are OK with hardware issues which is plain BS. Why should someone into finance know about hardware? Why would even some web developer know about the latest GPU?!?

[radi6404]

Bgrs, I msut laugh about people who use computers and don´t know their specifications, I am not talking about big hardware knowledge, but I think anyone who operates with a computer has to have basic hardware knowledge, and especially if he plans to buy a new computer he should educate well and buy up-to-date price/value products. Paf4uko, I don´t say all Germans are ok with hardware, surely not, but unfortunately they know way better about computers than Bulgarians. A friend of my mother bought her doughter a Pentium 3 cpu with 1,3 GHz back in 2002 where Pentium for with more than 2 GHz was standart. Now she bought a new computer but I guess it is 3 generations back, too and she works only with computers. That´s what I mean, why can´t you fucking realize it that in Bulgaria people don´t know well aobut hardware and computers excpet a few exceptions. But I have to consider you live in France, so you can´t tell anyway who knows about computers or not, how do you want to know Bulgarians know well or not if you don´t even live in Bulgaria, eh?

And the worst thing is, Bulgarians are too proud of themselves to admit that they are noobs when it comes to computers, only a noob would say (ATI X600 a ebat i tupalkata, brat mi igra igri s nea i e ebat i byrsata videokarta), a guy from Sofia who is a good guy otherwise told me that and I laughed until I got tears, because the X600 was a midrange graphics card in 2004 wtih 4 pipelines, 128 bit interface, low clockspeeds and slow DDR2 memory, that´s what I try to tell you, they don´t have a clue at all.

The funniest thing is, a girl I knew has a new notebook, I asked what notebook it is and she said Sony, it is great. That´s such a rediculous noob sentence for a 22 year old student, if it is Sony it is good or what, except the case of the notebook nothing is from Sony, Sony just picked the parts, and she should know the specifications to know if the notebook is any good or the last shit.

[paF4uko]

Radi, I have a lot of friends in Bulgaria that are not computer engineers, I have family there and I often go there, so I am well aware of what people there know. It is not less than French people and I really don't think one is supposed to know what are the last CPU or GPU etc. on the market. You can't be omniscient!

Tell me which part of the computer is this and I'll admit all the people have to know about hardware :D :
http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/9425/83994746vf9.png

P.S. Sorry about the crappy image, I'm not in the mood for adjusting the lines...

[radi6404]

Paf4uko, it is pointless, they don´t have to know what is the best part ofcourse, but when they buy a new computer they should buy up-to-date price/value producs and not some old overprised crap, don´t you finally get it? Because of their bad knowledge they only buy wrong parts and aren´t able to play games, but Paf4uko why don´t you realize it that they don´t know about good hardware AND think their hardware is great. Back in 2003 a guy from Bansko, a friend bought a new computer and thought the computer is a gaming mashine, he claimed that the graphics card is the latest and fastest avaliable altough it was an ATI Radeon 9200, back in 2003 the 9800Pro was out there with 3 times better performance or more and the 9200 was the worst low end graphics card avaliable, paf4uko, my fucking point is that you realize taht they don´t know what they buy and even computer sellers don´t know and after they bought their shit system they are so ignorant and aktually think they have a high end mashine altough it is low end and I have truly met many people like this in Bulgaria, but you don´t seem to understand.

[paF4uko]

First of all I don't assume the computer as a gaming machine. If you want to play games you'd better buy a XBox or a PlayStation.
All I know is that, I repeat myself, people cannot be omniscient and you have to get it! I don't think what "flops" means and what is its impact on performance is of general knowledge.

Do you know what shit exactly you buy when you go to the store for food? - I guess no...

[radi6404]

OMG, you are so dumb paf4uko, you recommend consoles for gaming altough they have big disadvantages to computers when it comes to gaming, and if you retard say that they don´t have to know what they buy and give food as example, well, intelligent people know very well what they buy and that´s probably a reason why they live healthy and don´t gain weight. The computer is the best platform for games because it has no limitations, when games with better graphics come out you can upgrade, you don´t have the chance to upgrade on consoles, you would have to wait until the new platform comes out. But really, you are a very dumb person Paf4uko, because what you say really makes me laugh and I never expected to hear such shit from a "computer user". To use computers is not only to operate them, but to know what´s inside the computer, the hardware. And you shocked me with your dumb statement that users don´t have to know what are latest standarts when they buy computers, they have to, as well as educated people know what they buy and how to live healthy and not to gain weight.

I am sorry to insult you but why do you talk such stuff man, sign in to a hardware forum and say all that, you will be laughed out.

[paF4uko]

^^ Well if you know so much about hardware tell me where in the computer you find the thing on the image that I posted earlier...
I don't get weight, but I don't pretend being aware of what I exactly eat when I go to a restaurant or even when I buy some ham.
Besides, commercial characteristics are not what you get in reality. But I suppose you're not aware of this! Take for instance the wifi certified wireless adapters. For example on the box of a 802.11b adapter they put 11Mbit/s, but in reality you can't get more than 2,5-3 Mbit/s for numerous reasons that I don't think you would understand.

[RawLee]

http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/9425/83994746vf9.png

The 3 transistors that use "a" and "b" are all different,while those 3 that use "r" and the above mentioned transistors as source are all the same...so I have no idea:)

[paF4uko]

The 3 transistors that use "a" and "b" are all different,while those 3 that use "r" and the above mentioned transistors as source are all the same...so I have no idea:)
Those are logic gates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic_gate), not transistors... :)

[snupix]

Some kind of adder or smthg, I have no time to write a table now and see what it does... :)

[paF4uko]

Some kind of adder or smthg, I have no time to write a table now and see what it does... :)

:okay: :cheers1:

[snupix]

:okay: :cheers1:

I'm often surprised how dumb computers actually are, all they can do is add two small numbers... :lol:

[paF4uko]

I'm often surprised how dumb computers actually are, all it can do is add two small numbers... :lol:

Computer engineers/scientists often say "It's so dumb that it can be done by a computer." :)

[bgrs]

They can translate virtual addresses as well, that's not dumb at all :)

[paF4uko]

Well, as long as there's an algorithm behind it's considered being "dumb". :) Heuristics are something more complex and clever, but you don't get always the best result. ;)

[Turnovec]

Those are logic gates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic_gate), not transistors... :)

^^ Can you imagine a girl, on the exam of "Computer Architectures" subject in TU Varna, answering to the professor with "2", on his question what will come out on the exit if on the entrances there is 1 and 1 .... :lol: The professor than says - Yes! It's "2" ... but in you student's book :lol:

[paF4uko]

:lol: On a logic gate or he was talking about the adder?!
Well in both cases it's 2 in the student's book... :lol:

[JloKyM]

I dont follow your discussion. Nevertheless I must admit that I dont know a person without a computer..Even my grandma has a brand new lap top and she uses skype and internet.:lol::lol:

[radi6404]

I don´t say that Bulgarian people don´t use computers, but use computers and use computers are different stories, most of my Bulgarian friends still have very slow single core computers and they think single core is standart and dualcore is high end altough quad core is pretty much standart nowadays. They think graphics cards from 5 years ago are fast enough for current games and so on. Not many young people use mp3 players, they prefer using their crappy cellphones to play music over the cellphone speaker, which is the worst quality music can be but they think it is good quality. If that´s not retarted I don´t know what is. But you think a world where people have no clue is good and don´t want the educational system to change so that more English is taught in order the young people to be more european and use the internet as an information ressource and buy up-to-date products.

[JloKyM]

I don´t say that Bulgarian people don´t use computers, but use computers and use computers are different stories, most of my Bulgarian friends still have very slow single core computers and they think single core is standart and dualcore is high end altough quad core is pretty much standart nowadays. They think graphics cards from 5 years ago are fast enough for current games and so on. Not many young people use mp3 players, they prefer using their crappy cellphones to play music over the cellphone speaker, which is the worst quality music can be but they think it is good quality. If that´s not retarted I don´t know what is. But you think a world where people have no clue is good and don´t want the educational system to change so that more English is taught in order the young people to be more european and use the internet as an information ressource and buy up-to-date products.


Radi, I know at least 20 people having Ipods, I have Samsung P2, i know people with Iphones etc..I'm sure that the situation is not tthe same all over Bulgaria, but at least in the big cities the level ot technologies is high.

[radi6404]

Ipods are way overrated and overpriced, the soundquality is shit and the earphones are big shit, I use a sony mp3 player with 2 GB and I bought additional Sony earphones because the original were shit, too. But if they have an Ipod it´s very good and for me it is something unusual, because I don´t know any person in Bulgaria who owns an Ipod, I am curious what friends you have but maybe I spend too much time in Blagoevgrad and Simitli.

[kudos]

radi u r a fucking idiot didnt u understand it already? ur bs doesnt even need an answer, it's pointless, tnx god u r washing dishes in germany now and not bothering Bulgaria with ur presence :)

[kudos]

u spend too much time in the forest dumbass

[kudos]

faggot why u give an oppinion abt Bulgaria when u r in Germany now??
i don't use my mp3 player for more than 2 years now for the mere fact that i have a phone with mp3 player and most of my friends r like this, no need to carry too much stuff with u..

[paF4uko]

still have very slow single core computers
My processor is a single core one and I'm happy with it, because it's enough for my work and I don't see the point of buying something more expensive.

You must be mental to judge people on their processors or mp3 players (btw, I don't have and don't need one)! :lol:

Whatever you say, "knowing" about computers and using them has nothing to do with reading hi-tech stores' catalogs.

[Делян]

Какво е заглавието на тази тема?

[RawLee]

Those are logic gates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic_gate), not transistors... :)

Come on,that was unfair! You said it was part of a computer...I assumed it was depicting an IC.:D

[paF4uko]

Come on,that was unfair! You said it was part of a computer...I assumed it was depicting an IC.:D

Well it is a part of a computer and you find it in some IC. And in fact, as you probably read, logic gates are implemented with diodes and transistors. ;)

[insertnickhere]

There are 3.5'' card reader panels for desktop cases since a lot of time. Just as a proof, that's my ugly desktop PC, bought it in 2004 (with the reader included):

[im]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3045/3011979419_5b6c30dcc4_b.jpg[/img]


you need a new computer.

people dont have card readers unless they have cameras with each using a different memory format and even then most use the FREE cable to transfer images.. remember firewire? remember bluetooth? rather useless eh.

im talking about the external one that plug into a usb port and cost 5 bucks in whatever currency.. they are that cheap.

usb drives are the standard for portable storage, not memory cards. those are basically only prominent in photography and video due to high cost. its a specialized device


Yes, it connects to the USB ports on the motherboard actually. A PCI card reader would not be very convinient I think.

no actually it doesnt! internal v external models.


Could you please explain which exactly was a bad one and why did it have to die?

overhyped to infiniti, inferior product, blowing cpus (though the fanboys would always downplay this fact), multitasking ability of a celeron. basically vomit company making vomit products. just like KIA, they tried to undercut the market with price but they got slapped by the true chip maker. heck motorolla makes better chips than amd does.

not to mention deceptive labelling and marketing to make it sound like you are getting something way more than what it really is. need i go on? no, its dead and buried.


Power consumption is always an issue. Probably not a big one but still an issue.


no it's not.. its only an issue when selecting a power supply. when it comes to laptops, you just pick the type you want. whether you cpu draws 90watts or 120 watts is totally nil, including to your power bill. if you are that worried, just buy something slower. bleeding edge will always eat more.


I use about on the average 10-20 MB mostly because I upload or download some photo or an mp3 from the phone and very rarely use it to browse when out of the town. With the crappy 32MB flash card on it, I really don't need more.

You are only saying this because it is slower than 9600 baud in practice. its 2008. you dont transfer an mp3.. you transfer 1000.




Besides, you mistake GPRS for WAP (CSD) which is really slow, GPRS typically is a little faster than the 56kbit modems. Besides the UMTS coverage is a lot better nowadays and the speeds are usually more than 300kbit/s. It's quite enough for uploading/downloading photos and mp3s to/from the phone. As for EV-DO, it is a CDMA technology, not a GSM one. It is the equivalent of the GSM's HSDPA standarts (which are being deployed as we speak). AFAIK we don't have a CDMA network deployed in Bulgaria (Mobikom was going to introduce one years ago but nothing).

Not really.. gprs' technical maximum is somewhere around 114kbps, which is around 12kbs or slightly slower than dual isdn (which was the coolest thing in 1996 btw). but the chance of you getting anywhere near that is nil. then with network congestion and reception issues, you are down to around 33000. add latency and drops, and yep, down and down.

GSM is not EVDO because evdo is purpose wan internet standard. you keep focusing on the phone itself and missing the picture of where technology is going.

And speaking of GSM, look into edge...

The reason we dont have CDMA network capable of either is because people are too stumped into their phones, which utterly suck as internet devices, including the iphone which i got rid of long ago. It just does not work on such a scale.

Meawhile there are 300 mom and pop wireless lan ISPs in every town each with a range of 400meters. are these any better with their packet sniffers and what not

Then people complain why rural areas are dieing. well, what can you do there? cant even get dial up due to century old wiring that drops the signal every second (been there, tried it)

[bgrs]

you need a new computer.

people dont have card readers unless they have cameras with each using a different memory format and even then most use the FREE cable to transfer images.. remember firewire? remember bluetooth? rather useless eh.

im talking about the external one that plug into a usb port and cost 5 bucks in whatever currency.. they are that cheap.

The case and the DVD and that reader are the only things left from that one. In 2004, bluetooth phones were still expensive, there were "external" USB readers, still that one was included so I took it, that's all. As I said up to that moment I used the reader only a few times when I lost the camera's USB cable and once to undelete some photos from the card of a friend he accidently deleted (it's FAT-formatted, so it's easy).

no actually it doesnt! internal v external models.

Mine is connected to the USB ports on the motherboard, but I am not opening the case to take photos this time. Most motherboards have onboard USB ports which are usually connected to front-side USB ones. Alright, since their number is limited, I connected the card reader instead of the front-side USB ports, that's all.

overhyped to infiniti, inferior product, blowing cpus (though the fanboys would always downplay this fact), multitasking ability of a celeron. basically vomit company making vomit products. just like KIA, they tried to undercut the market with price but they got slapped by the true chip maker. heck motorolla makes better chips than amd does.

Blowing CPUs...never seen that. I think that by "multitasking ability" you mean "hyperthreading" which AFAIK was removed from Intel's latest product line, but OK. We can make a discussion about the hyperthreading itself , actually that is a technology that heavily relies on the operating system kernel to schedule processes/threads right, it has security implications (not joking) and it can even turn into a performance problem on SMP machines. Motorola does not make x86 chips so you can't compare apples and oranges by saying that. And also, AMD is not like a Chinese cheap copy-paste company, they actually implement their own ideas, some of them better than Intel's realization. For example SVM which is better than Intel's hardware virtualization cause it allows for virtual machines to have separate DMA address spaces and the delivery of interrupts on a per-VM basis. Which in facts allows for a better security as far as virtualization is concerned. Another good idea (which is not AMD idea, but they use it unlike Intel) - is NUMA. In a SMP machine each AMD CPU has its own MMU and own memory bus unlike Intel ones that share them, this leads to much better performance. But oh, OK, then that's again that the common desktop user don't care about.

not to mention deceptive labelling and marketing to make it sound like you are getting something way more than what it really is. need i go on? no, its dead and buried.

Yes, but they do not produce Intel clones, thus the clock speeds cannot be directly compared. Since it was Intel that invented that "mega/gigahertz fuss" and many people believe that "higher clock speed = higher performance" I think AMD has the right to market its CPUs on a xxxx+ basis.

Not really.. gprs' technical maximum is somewhere around 114kbps, which is around 12kbs or slightly slower than dual isdn (which was the coolest thing in 1996 btw). but the chance of you getting anywhere near that is nil. then with network congestion and reception issues, you are down to around 33000. add latency and drops, and yep, down and down.

Actually the bandwidth is constant (e.g your datachanel can either be 114kbit or 56, depending on the BSC your phone is at). I think you mix up bandwidth, latency and transfer speed. Yes, transfer speed depends on them both and no - you can't be at 33 kbps on GPRS. The latency is relatively the same doesn't matter whether you use GPRS or UMTS and after it leaves the mobile telco network, it depends on the things totally beyond your choice of mobile data technology. Yes, there can be congested routers, yes there can be dropped packets which leads to TCP retransmits, but it's always like that, it's unavoidable. Still, GPRS allows for uploading a ringtone or downloading some photos from the phone - for me that's enough.

GSM is not EVDO because evdo is purpose wan internet standard. you keep focusing on the phone itself and missing the picture of where technology is going.

And speaking of GSM, look into edge...

The reason we dont have CDMA network capable of either is because people are too stumped into their phones, which utterly suck as internet devices, including the iphone which i got rid of long ago. It just does not work on such a scale.


Well CDMA has different signalling mechanism as compared to GSM networks. I told you - the closest equivalent to EVDO in GSM networks is HSDPA HSDPA allows theoretically to as far as I remember something like 10-15 mbit/s which should be enough. It is being deployed now by the three mobile telcos at the moment, the first one was Mtel, they started that in 2006 or the beginning of 2007, somewhere at that time. But unfortunately the coverage is still bad, the largest cities, that's it. It's a hell lot of investment, new BSCs, new IP core network, etc. That's why the prices per MB at Globul, Mtel and Vivatel are absurdly high - one good reason is that their networks will not be able to handle that traffic at the moment (the other good reasons are economical and connected with repaying the investment...ohh ok).

As for why we don't have a CDMA network...I think that's fair. You buy a phone and you can use it with all 3 operators. That's even socialistic in a way :) Your choice of phone is not bundled to a telco. Besides, CDMA never got a warm acceptance in Europe even though it is deployed in a number of countries. It's much more smth like an American standart, widely used in the US.

Meawhile there are 300 mom and pop wireless lan ISPs in every town each with a range of 400meters. are these any better with their packet sniffers and what not

Well why not, probably that's the future. Better speeds (especially after 802.11n), not under the control of big companies, etc. But if only if they can handle the handover right (e.g when you leave the AP range, you will need to connect to another, obtain the same IP address or otherwise all your TCP connections will fail). Mobile IP is a good proposal for that, but requires some centralization (e.g. some database that keeps track of users, something like the HLR in mobile telecoms).

Then people complain why rural areas are dieing. well, what can you do there? cant even get dial up due to century old wiring that drops the signal every second (been there, tried it)

That's a problem...yep.

[insertnickhere]

no i dont mean hypertreading. i said multitasking. it means just that. the ability of the cpu to run multiple applications at once and properly allocate cycles to primary and secondary apps (background) or as defined by priority override.

real life tests fail to show that magical bus derived performance and other amd mumbo jambo i already mentioned that you just repeated as if you were reading slashdot. there was a time when amd edged intel in performance (early to mid p4 generations) vs price but when core2 hit the market, they dropped out of the race. amds blow a lot when clocked above stock speed. they tend to boot up and fry themselves while intel generally just faults and sits there till you reset the bios.

yet cmda is cost effective. i was looking at the packages from bg operators. i think they go to like 50mb per month or something ridiculous. thats not even worth deploying for. at such limits your user base is just not there since it isnt worth it.

i can use my phone on every continent of the world... its a moot point. when you are building a wwan network, you are not building it for the phones. that's my point, hence what does it really matter what the standart is? its mobile internet, not telephone service! your backbone connections are the same as for any other ip connection. its a matter of getting the towers set which are independent of your phone connection anyway. IE, one is not required for the other but can be used by either with the right devices.

Wireless will never replace the reliability and security of wired. Wireless cannot compete with fiber and the N standard is entirely too expensive compared to the old cat5. It is a solution for countries that lack the wired infrastructure (remember duplex?) and its good for portable devices. But based on varied needs, i dont see cables going anywhere soon. Latency alone is a reason enough.

i just looked up some of my old ip addresses circa 2000. interesting ip: 208.158.7.90. i forgot what i used it for though. but ultimately my point is that the technology has been around for a long time, wireless or otherwise and we are still playing catch up. how many people can go back 8 years and look up their old addresses?

just 2-3 years ago, btk had a ds3 line as the backbone outside bg so like most others, they used to chop traffic and speed based on whether it was going within the country or outside of it. and this was going on in 2006!

also dont forget the all these small isps cannot ever hope to gather the capital or ability to run their own backbones which means they will be reliant upon somebody else to provide their link. so whether the monopoly itself provides net service to the end user or not, is a moot point. an overly fragmented markets brings nobody much good. too much competition is the other extreme of no competition

[bgrs]

no i dont mean hypertreading. i said multitasking. it means just that. the ability of the cpu to run multiple applications at once and properly allocate cycles to primary and secondary apps (background) or as defined by priority override.

Sorry to disappoint you but you can only run a single process on a CPU (or a CPU core) at a given time. You can't run several at one. And that is valid for all arhitectures, not only the x86. The operating system (not the CPU) schedules processes on CPUs. The mechanism is called a task scheduler. There are several algorhitms for that but basically the operating system keeps a runqueue of processes deserving CPU time and runs them on the processor for a small period, called timeslice. Most of the processes though are not on the runqueue cause they have met somewhere a blocking operation (e.g wait for disk I/O, network packet or keyboard input). Rescheduling processes is kinda expensive operation, needs saving/restoring register states, flushing the TLB cache (that's the L2 cache on the CPU). Given that, I would expect you to say that intels generally have a larger L2 thus benefit from that and you would be right about that.

there was a time when amd edged intel in performance (early to mid p4 generations) vs price but when core2 hit the market, they dropped out of the race. amds blow a lot when clocked above stock speed. they tend to boot up and fry themselves while intel generally just faults and sits there till you reset the bios.

Overclocking is not the manifacturers' problem. Besides, AMD also have a dual-core solution, both have a quadcore solutions as well. Athlon AMx2 costs as much as an equivalent intel core duo, really. As for performance tests, I always hated that, it all depends on the workloads.

i can use my phone on every continent of the world... its a moot point. when you are building a wwan network, you are not building it for the phones. that's my point, hence what does it really matter what the standart is? its mobile internet, not telephone service! your backbone connections are the same as for any other ip connection. its a matter of getting the towers set which are independent of your phone connection anyway. IE, one is not required for the other but can be used by either with the right devices.

When you setup a WAN connection you usually rely on a carrier. Who said the carrier should be a mobile telecom? Lease the line of BTC or someone else for Christ's sake!

Wireless will never replaced the reliability and security of wired. Wireless cannot compete with fiber and the N standard is entirely too expensive compared to the old cat5. It is a solution for countries that lack the wired infrastructure and its good for portable devices. But based on varied needs, i dont see cables going anywhere soon. Latency alone is a reason enough.

Yes, yes, yes! If we are speaking of mobile access though, the 802.11 standarts offer supreme bandwidth over short distances. It's not what you'll get with WiMax and definitely not what you're going to get with HSDPA. The problem is like I said...the short range. In a city you can deploy many APs but still you'll need to have a mechanism for handover. I think that's a huge problem which hampers the widespread public 802.11 networks existence. Many people deploy their own 802.11 APs. Some deploy a number of then and try to be a small ISP. There are even large networks. But still at least in Bulgaria it's kind of weird.

[insertnickhere]

Sorry to disappoint you but you can only run a single process on a CPU (or a CPU core) at a given time. You can't run several at one. And that is valid for all arhitectures, not only the x86. The operating system (not the CPU) schedules processes on CPUs. The mechanism is called a task scheduler. There are several algorhitms for that but basically the operating system keeps a runqueue of processes deserving CPU time and runs them on the processor for a small period, called timeslice. Most of the processes though are not on the runqueue cause they have met somewhere a blocking operation (e.g wait for disk I/O, network packet or keyboard input). Rescheduling processes is kinda expensive operation, needs saving/restoring register states, flushing the TLB cache (that's the L2 cache on the CPU). Given that, I would expect you to say that intels generally have a larger L2 thus benefit from that and you would be right about that.



Overclocking is not the manifacturers' problem. Besides, AMD also have a dual-core solution, both have a quadcore solutions as well. Athlon AMx2 costs as much as an equivalent intel core duo, really. As for performance tests, I always hated that, it all depends on the workloads.



When you setup a WAN connection you usually rely on a carrier. Who said the carrier should be a mobile telecom? Lease the line of BTC or someone else for Christ's sake!



Yes, yes, yes! If we are speaking of mobile access though, the 802.11 standarts offer supreme bandwidth over short distances. It's not what you'll get with WiMax and definitely not what you're going to get with HSDPA. The problem is like I said...the short range. In a city you can deploy many APs but still you'll need to have a mechanism for handover. I think that's a huge problem which hampers the widespread public 802.11 networks existence. Many people deploy their own 802.11 APs. Some deploy a number of then and try to be a small ISP. There are even large networks. But still at least in Bulgaria it's kind of weird.

Read closely. CPU cycle allocation, which part of that did you miss. I know that a the cpu can only give attention to one thing at a time (and time in cpu terms is well.. short!).

manufacturers overclock all the time.. they just call it stock speed. and yes it is a problem because any enthisiast would do it. intel scales their stock speeds down while amd pushes them up to juice more from a particular model line and architecture.

when you lease the line from btc, it is btc that defines your cost and terms. if there is no alternative, you either comply or go out of business. come on now.....

you know how well 802 travels through concrete walls and steel? right. it doesnt! that's why they mount the radio receivers on the roofs and then run a (gasp) cable to your system.. you can control access via ip and mac address quite well. or even a network login session (a freebie is tomato)

in other news, btk has dsl in all major cities now! :banana:

[petet]

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