http://0.tqn.com/d/architecture/1/0/k/h/tower2greenwich212000-hr.jpg

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2 World Trade Center - 200 Greenwich Street

Lord Foster’s Tower 2, with a rooftop of four enormous diamonds steeply inclined toward the memorial below, would be as high as the Empire State Building. Tower 3 by Lord Rogers, framed boldly by an exoskeletal framework of diagonal beams, would reach a pinnacle of 1,255 feet at its corner antennas. Even the smallest and subtlest building among them, Mr. Maki’s Tower 4, would be taller than the Citigroup Center in midtown

By virtue of its size and aesthetic bravura, Lord Foster’s Tower 2 at 200 Greenwich Street, between Vesey and Fulton Streets, may draw the most public attention. The 1,265-foot building is to have 78 floors, 62 for offices, four trading floors and the rest for retail and mechanical space. The uppermost of the rooftop diamonds will be a tripod shaped antenna whose pinnacle is 1,350 feet above street level, just 18 feet shy of the Freedom Tower’s parapet.

Construction of Tower 2 will require the removal of the Vesey Street staircase, also known as the survivors’ stairway, which is the only aboveground remnant of the original trade center that is still in place. It served as an escape route for hundreds of people on 9/11.

The main shaft of Tower 2 is to be divided by notches into quadrants, culminating in diamond forms that are meant to lead the eye down to the memorial plaza. The surface of these structures will be a porous screen on which snow and ice are not expected to accumulate; always a hazard on a steeply pitched roof.

Earthcam: http://www.earthcam.net/users2/interface.php?id=445&projectid=202&clientid=158

Link to the Old Thread: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=471265

Renders:

The 2nd tower from the left:

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/8741/fosterrogersmakiri1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://www.pbase.com/image/77334132.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/66462504/original.jpg

http://i34.tinypic.com/4kbbyg.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/66462508/original.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/66466720/original.jpg

Latest pics from the construction site:

http://www.wtc.com/uploads/images/712x534/14_38_T2-Oct-7-2008.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3019/2919021308_207bfa5670_b.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3128/2919023156_5d5af28a48_b.jpg

Nice new thread, are those pictures new updates?

That's essentially the one building I actually like at the new WTC. It has a kind of elegance with it's top. To be honest, it really just reminds me of a taller SmurfitStone Building with a variation on the top. Looking forward to this being finished.

Nice new thread, are those pictures new updates?

it's time every tower gets his own thread :). pics are from october

ZZ, many many many thx for making thos new threads. Better close the old one.

The first rendering is amazing :cheers:

my favourtie new WTC tower, absolutely

beautiful, sleek and elegant.

It's not 76 fl; it has 79 floors, likely plus the four below grade floors, and it's being preped. If Larry and the PA stop fighting, it will be under construction in December.

From some angles, it has the massing and size and height of one of the old WTC Towers, but from other angles, it's a totally new building.

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/1346/3202tower2renderingpf3.jpg
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/4348/3203tower2renderingws3.jpg
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/4248/3208tower2renderingaw4.jpg
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/5684/3210tower2renderingvp2.jpg

Don't really appreciate the size of this until its actually making its mark on the skyline. Good to see the World Trade Center has its own threads now!

All i can say is :drool:, one of my favorites building in the US after the CS and the FT.

I really hope the blue cladding keeps its depth, unlike some recent buildings in Chicago. The renderings were much more flattering than the end product. It may still be early to judge as many of the floors remain gutted. I'm partial to the shinyyyy refletivitynessss and deep bluey blue of the renders. I seriously hope they come out somewhat simmilar.

thax zz but the infos a lil 2006. What I mean is the height for this building, has been upgrade from 1339 feet to 1350 feet.

I find this one way better looking than WTC1!

the best one from new WTC towers

OMG I never knew that white arch looking thing (or whale's rib) was gonna be that massive. And with a road right under it, it will be the most stunning street in NYC.

I hope they won't exxegerate with the lighting of this buidling. I would like to see the frames of the four diamonds beeing lit and that's it.

Finally, we have threads for these beauties! :D I hope we can get lots of updates.

Nice new thread indeed - any updated pics?

When are they finished with the foundation?

wow could start in December, that's great. I'm so anxious to see NY with its new collection of giant majestic buildings.

^^^ Larry and the PANYNJ are fighting over the site because Larry claims the site isn't ready for him to build on since the PA didn't finish preping the site, but the PA claims that the site is ready and meets his requirements, so hopefully they can do something productive and get the tower going ASAP, but if not, it's going to be a long road; they are like cats and dogs. But I'm sure someone like Bloomberg will step in if the fight gets bad enough to threaten the success of rebuilding. At least Tower 1 and Tower 4 are going places, with Tower 3 right behind them. It's not like the towers will not get built, but Tower 2 may take longer because its behind the rest. However, that just means there will always be something to watch.

^^ Before the EarthCam went down there was a rock driller working on the T2 plot, so I guess they started doing something again. I hope to see more of them when the Cam is back online :)

The HD cam is online right now and has been online for many weeks, but no one has touched the Tower 2 site for three weeks; it's such a waste of time.

sorry but which webcam do you mean? "HD" sounds good..
I only know the earthcam (http://www.earthcam.net/users2/interface.php?i=0&id=445&projectid=202&clientid=158) and this one http://rebuildgroundzero.org/webcam/rgz_000.jpg, but none of them seems like high definition?!

^^ because you zoom into the parts and then the resolution distorts as you zoom in. But the original view of the whole site definitely seems HD.

The HD earthcam has been showing the same pic since 1:30PM so it is down for now.

But it did seem to show a rock driller, as mentioned, so that is good news.

I really like the design in this one, it is going to make a statement in the skyline.

The earthcam is working again, but the rock driller is gone. Apart from a little boom lift the site looks quite desolate again :(

off topic, no where else to ask but when is that white arch between WTC2 and WTC3 gonna be completed?

From SSP. Taken yesterday:

From mikewhyment (http://flickr.com/photos/mikewhyment/).

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3010/3089131837_f98c734a6b_b.jpg


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3195/3089973156_1f3c960b63_b.jpg

off topic, no where else to ask but when is that white arch between WTC2 and WTC3 gonna be completed?

that white arch as you call it is the transit hub. I don't know when it's going to be finish.

New picture from wtc.com (http://www.wtc.com)
The picture was taken on the 5th of December.

http://www.wtc.com/uploads/images/712x534/14_38_T2-Dec-5-2008.jpg

According to wtc.com tower 2 should be rising but it doesn't look like much is happening now.
What's the hold-up?

;32595512']According to wtc.com tower 2 should be rising but it doesn't look like much is happening now.
What's the hold-up?

The Port Authority is still excavating the site. We probably won't see any serious work begin on this one for several more months.

The Port Authority is still excavating the site. We probably won't see any serious work begin on this one for several more months.

seems like $300.000 penalty per day is not enough for them. They holding everything up

any update on the site?

Lowermanhattan.info reports the site is to be turned over to Silverstein Properties on March 31. There information is pretty reliable. Though sometimes when they post approximate dates they are usually off somewhat. I doubt the Port Authority is going to be ready in just 5 days.

If I were to guess, it won't be turned over to Silverstein till late April or maybe even May.

Lowermanhattan.info reports the site is to be turned over to Silverstein Properties on March 31. There information is pretty reliable. Though sometimes when they post approximate dates they are usually off somewhat. I doubt the Port Authority is going to be ready in just 5 days.

If I were to guess, it won't be turned over to Silverstein till late April or maybe even May.

By looking on a cam 2 sites are pretty much ready

I think they'll have this site ready by the 31st.

the 3rd of april that the date I'm giving and I don't work there thats just the date I'm seeing.

Tower Two site at the bottom.

From Flickr: Hendrik Hoefer (http://www.flickr.com/photos/schmoell/3390578165/sizes/l/)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3581/3390578165_6186a0baaf_b.jpg

I like this tower, is really original !

Tower 7 looks damn good, tower 2 looks like a sand castle washed away by the rain. The Pa should be handing the site over soon.

Sorry, can someone fill me in. Which towers have enough funding to start contruction and which towers don't??

Towers One and Four are already funded and under construction. Towers Two, Three and Five don't have all their financing in place. Silverstein has some money from Insurance on the old towers but it isn't nearly enough to cover the total costs of Towers Two and Three which is why he is now asking the PA to act as a sort of glorified co-signer.

Now even if Silverstein doesn't get the funding, which I doubt, the foundation and base of Towers Two and Three will still be built because they are integral to the new WTC PATH hub that is being built.

N/A

Well looks like they are done with tower 2 site since they now started excavating Transportation Hub. Now only thing left is sort out funding for this tower and we are all set.

The sad part is PA supposed to handover site on September 26, 2008

So, the word is out that the PA did hand this over to Silverstein. So the ball is in his court now in regards to construction.

Keep an eye out for them blocking off the sidewalk on Vesey st.

Just a wild guess, but I have a feeling they'll start work on 3WTC before 2WTC.

I think 3 was next to start anyways. 2wtc was always last next to 5wtc. And the long forgetting never planed tower 6

I think 3 was next to start anyways. 2wtc was always last next to 5wtc. And the long forgetting never planed tower 6

Tower 5 as of today is one ugly proposal which I hope will never get build as it is planned today. It needs serious change in design.

Yeah 5 is trash but where the hell is 6. A redesign is need a little height wouldn't kill 5 either.

Tower 3 has already been under construction for some time. However they haven't started on the core area yet because it is being used as a staging area for Tower 4. So they will probably be starting on the core of Tower 2 before they start on the core of Tower 3.

Hmm no I don't think so diggin holes isn't construction.

Tower 3 has already been under construction for some time. However they haven't started on the core area yet because it is being used as a staging area for Tower 4. So they will probably be starting on the core of Tower 2 before they start on the core of Tower 3.

They are still doing excavation work on 3WTC's site right now. There is still some rock blasting work to be done as well. We probably won't see either 2 or 3WTC start for at least a few more months.

*The following information was last updated on April 9, 2009.

* Port Authority turnover to Silverstein completed in early April 2009

it going to look awesome among ancient nyc SSs lol, will be awkard lolol.

Wow!! This is a very sexy tower. I made a cheap copy of it in my sketchup city. Looks nice but not as nice as the original :okay:

it going to look awesome among ancient nyc SSs lol, will be awkard lolol.

We rather the buildings be called classic. Ancient would suggust we have skyscrapers over a 100 years old which we don't. Give it another ten years.

I don't think anybody can dispute that this is certainly the best looking building in the entire complex and certainly one of the best looking in the world. It has clean distinctive lines that are unsurpassed by any building now under construction or proposed.

They are still doing excavation work on 3WTC's site right now. There is still some rock blasting work to be done as well. We probably won't see either 2 or 3WTC start for at least a few more months.

Any excavation happening on the Tower 3 site is being done by Silversteins crew. As for Tower 2, I've seen surveying crews down in the pit for the last few days.

Let's hope they get underway soon.

not good a good news so far :ohno:


As Finance Offices Empty, Developers Rethink Ground Zero


Merrill Lynch, an investment bank now owned by Bank of America, has started moving the first of thousands of employees to Midtown from Lower Manhattan, a departure that will ultimately leave floor after floor of empty office space at the World Financial Center.

Goldman Sachs will leave vacant 1.3 million square feet in four aging buildings in the financial district after it begins moving to its new headquarters in Battery Park City late this year. American International Group, the troubled insurance giant, is also a shrinking presence downtown, real estate brokers say, while Depository Trust is considering a move to New Jersey.

And just as companies are leaving downtown, more commercial space is being built there. Under current plans for the redevelopment of ground zero, the developer Larry A. Silverstein will add three massive skyscrapers with a total of 7.57 million square feet by 2013.

It adds up to hundreds of acres of vacant space in Lower Manhattan at a time of recession and restructuring of the financial industry.

For that reason, Mr. Silverstein and the owner of the 16-acre ground zero site, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, are once again locked in negotiations over how and when the office towers get built. The talks are further complicated by the fact that the utilities and entryways for the nearby $3.2 billion transit center and the Sept. 11 memorial are woven into the base and underground portions of Mr. Silverstein’s three towers.

Given the restructuring of the financial services industry, there is a “need to reconsider the original plan for 10 million square feet of office space at ground zero,” said Mitchell L. Moss, a professor of urban policy and planning at New York University. The two sides are reluctant to discuss the details of negotiations because of confidentiality agreements. But executives who have spoken to both parties outlined their positions.

Mr. Silverstein, who has received more than $150 million in development fees already, wants to push forward with at least two of the towers and reconfigure an agreement with the Port Authority. He has offered a characteristically optimistic view of New York’s rebound, saying there will always be companies willing to pay top dollar for new, modern buildings.

Unable to finance the buildings himself, Mr. Silverstein wants the Port Authority to do it, a move that could cost $3 billion and a sizable portion of its capital budget. At the same time, Mr. Silverstein has pressed the state and the city, which agreed in 2006 to occupy a portion of the first of his towers, to pay a premium rent for space that would otherwise be unoccupied.

Two weeks ago, according to executives on both sides, Port Authority officials offered a counterproposal: it would provide $800 million in financing for only the first tower, a 64-story, 2.3 million-square-foot building on Church Street, between Cortlandt and Liberty Streets. In keeping with the original agreement, the Port Authority would move its headquarters there, but pay a substantially higher rent.

In return, Mr. Silverstein would have to invest his fees in the project, while providing the Port Authority with a financial stake in the building.

Rather than flooding the downtown market with what it believes would be unneeded office space, the Port Authority has proposed delaying construction of the second, even larger tower until 2022 and the third until 2030.

“We have to deal with the economic reality today,” said Christopher O. Ward, the authority’s executive director. “That starts with keeping the memorial and the other public infrastructure on the timeline and budget we’ve committed to.”

Still, the authority says it would build the underground portions and the first few floors of the other two towers, because they contain ventilation systems, entryways and emergency exits for the transit center and the memorial. Mr. Silverstein, however, has argued that the authority’s proposal would leave much of the site unfinished and perhaps unoccupied. He also contends that it would be impractical, if not impossible, to build the first few floors of the second two towers and complete them later.

“In 2006, all of the stakeholders — the city, the state, the Port and Silverstein — agreed that the best interests of both the city and downtown would be served by finishing the entire site simultaneously and as quickly as possible,” said Janno Lieber, who oversees the trade center project for Silverstein Properties. “One building surrounded by three half-finished blocks for the next 20 years does not make good on promises made to New Yorkers.”

The recession and the collapse of the credit markets have taken a toll on the commercial market, as some banks fold or consolidate. Brokers predict that the vacancy rate in downtown office buildings will climb to 16 percent, from 11.7 percent today. JPMorgan Chase has quietly abandoned its plan to build a new headquarters for its investment banking division near ground zero.

“The market doesn’t need seven million square feet of space and it’s not going to need it for a while,” said Barry Gosin, chief executive of Newmark Knight Frank, a real estate brokerage firm.

The Bloomberg administration has remained neutral so far as to whether Mr. Silverstein should build one or two towers in the next couple of years. Mr. Silverstein is not without leverage. He can insist on adhering to the current development agreement. So far, the Port Authority has paid nearly $90 million in penalties for failing to turn over Mr. Silverstein’s construction sites in a timely manner. If the impasse continues, it could jeopardize the authority’s promise to open the memorial in 2011.

“What Larry did is take out all his equity at the beginning, so he really doesn’t have a lot of skin in the game,” Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg said last month. “He has an enormous amount of upside potential, which doesn’t leave the Port Authority with a lot of negotiating ability, because they’re the ones who have to put up the money.”

Mr. Silverstein has about $964 million left from an original $4.5 billion pool of insurance proceeds, paid to cover his losses from the destruction of the two original World Trade Center towers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/15/nyregion/15develop.html?ref=business

So, out of $4.5 billion, Larry has $964 million left and has paid around $600 million in rent. Other than what he's spent on building 4, where did the rest go?

This buildings aren't being built for right now there being built for the future. Businesses are leaving lower manhattan but they'll be back and new businesses will come with them.

www.wtc.com


Talk of delaying 2 WTC towers for years

By Amy Westfeldt | April 16, 2009
Associated Press
The owners of the World Trade Center site, locked in a new round of heated talks with a private developer about how and when to build office towers, have proposed indefinitely putting off two of three planned skyscrapers until the real estate market recovers.

According to officials familiar with the negotiations, an analysis prepared for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey predicts World Trade Center developer Larry Silverstein wouldn't be able to finish building all three towers he plans for decades, with the last tower finished by 2030.

Silverstein and the Port Authority have been talking on and off for months about rewriting a 3-year-old agreement that gives the developer rights to build three out of five towers planned at the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attack site.

In a failing economy where developers have found it impossible to obtain financing for new projects, Silverstein last fall asked the Port to back financing for two of his towers, three officials told The Associated Press, speaking on condition of anonymity because the talks are confidential.

The Port Authority about a week ago agreed to back about $800 million in financing for one tower already under construction, where the Port Authority has agreed to lease space once it's completed.

The other two towers shouldn't be built until there is enough demand for commercial office space downtown, the Port has said.

An analysis of Silverstein's plan by the Cushman & Wakefield real estate brokerage projected that while two of Silverstein's towers could be built by 2013, a third would not be built until 2030 and fully leased until 2036. A second tower that hasn't been built yet wouldn't be fully leased until 2025, the brokerage says.

The agency says it needs clarity on a rebuilding schedule to prevent delays on other interconnecting projects, like the Sept. 11 memorial and a multibillion-dollar transit hub. All the planned projects on the site have been delayed multiple times since they were announced in 2003.

"The Port Authority's obligation is to rebuild the site in the public interest based on the economic reality today," the agency said in a statement. "That starts with keeping the memorial and the other public infrastructure on the timeline and budget we've committed to, and it extends to building the right amount of office space to meet what is now a very different market downtown."

Janno Lieber, who oversees the trade center site for Silverstein, said the developer wants to build all the towers as quickly as possible, "as we all promised the public so that downtown could realize its potential."

Silverstein has not formally rejected the port's proposal. Both sides need a new deal, in which Sept. 11 insurance money was split to pay for the towers. Silverstein has paid about $800 million in rent since 2001 for the undeveloped space and has collected over $100 million in development fees. The Port Authority is paying Silverstein $300,000-a-day late fees for not excavating all the land Silverstein needs to build on. The lease requires Silverstein to build his three towers by 2013 or forfeit rights to them.

Kathryn Wylde, chief executive of the Partnership for New York business group, said the real estate market would likely drive the decision how fast to build back office space.

"If you don't have commercial tenants demanding the space, I don't see it being developed," she said. But she wondered at projections like the 2030 date, saying demand for new office space in lower Manhattan would happen long before that.

"It may take five years, it may take 10 years," she said, "but it's not going to take 21 years."


Both good and bad

Wow this going very well SIGH.... :fiddle:


Square One, Ground Zero: Port Authority must kill $1 billion WTC bailout plan

The terrible economic realities spawned by the financial crisis are playing out disastrously in the long-troubled, long-delayed redevelopment of Ground Zero.

With the demise or shrinkage of Wall Street giants, there are few, if any, tenants to take space in the five huge towers planned for the site. And the banks that used to lend money for construction, well, they're not making loans the way they used to.

No tenants plus no money equals no development. This fact of life is as true at Ground Zero as it is anywhere else - no matter how much the Port Authority, which owns the land, and Larry Silverstein, the builder who holds development rights, might like to defy gravity.

Although he has almost $1 billion in reserve from the insurance payment on the toppling of the World Trade Center, Silverstein isn't close to having the resources to complete the single structure he is building now, called Tower 4, let alone the two others he is obligated to erect.

Nor does Silverstein have anywhere to turn for private financing. Without leases and with a glut of office space on the market, he has nothing to offer lenders except hope for a miraculous economic recovery. He knows better than to ask.

So, paralyzed, Silverstein has turned to the Port Authority to put up billions in public money to guarantee repayment to potential lenders. He would proceed to build Tower 4 and the even larger Tower 2.

Properly, the PA told Silverstein to get lost. But it counteroffered with a proposal to bankroll Silverstein to the tune of $1 billion to build Tower 4.

This is lunacy. This must stop. The PA must withdraw its offer. Govs. Paterson and Jon Corzine, Mayor Bloomberg and the authority must redraw plans for Ground Zero.

The reasons are simple. First, that $1 billion is earmarked for transportation improvements in New York. That is how it must be spent. Second, trying to force development into Ground Zero would be futile and harmful.

The authority is considering a $1 billion investment solely out of a desire to maintain progress on the Trade Center site. But as things now stand, the agency would accomplish only the construction of empty offices.

Worse, the building would compete against the huge skyscraper, formerly known as the Freedom Tower, that the PA is building across site.

For a long time, thanks to the execessively generous terms negotiated by the PA, Silverstein stood to make fabulous sums at Ground Zero while risking none of his own money. That was when times were good. Now they're bad, and he's asking the authority to put more public money at risk so he can stay in the game.

But the game is up.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2009/04/19/2009-04-19_square_one_ground_zero_port_authority_must_kill_1_billion_wtc_bailout_plan.html

to me the whole site is "f***ed" beyond repair

awesome building!

So it turns out the report predicting doom & Gloom was total BS. It was filled with stupid assumptions such as that Silverstein wouldn't start marketing towers 2 & 3 until tower 4 was completely filled and then predicated, strangely, that the towers would fill up three times slower than the Freedom Tower.

I'm thinking that the PA is trying to kill competition.

I don't know what the hell PA is so fucking affreid of?

I don't know what the hell PA is so fucking affreid of?

The PA is afraid of guaranteeing the billions of dollars of loans Silverstein needs to build 2 and 3WTC without any anchor tenants lined up yet. Keep in mind Silverstein isn't asking for money from the PA, only that they will back stop the loans if he can't pay the bills (basically acting like a cosigner). But without any tenants signed on for his towers, the PA is nervous they'll ultimately have to foot the bill in the end.

WTF are they doing on GZ? I mean this is THE project that could transform lower manhattan to something it never was.....it would create street level retail, retail at the underground mall, it would create a new icon for nyc.....it also could be the booster for a new more impressive construction boom that we can now witness in nyc....this has so much potential.....they have the chance to build something that can change lower manhattan and all they have are fears and not the balls and will to risk anything...if this goes on like the way it is now we will never see a finished WTC complex

WTF are they doing on GZ? I mean this is THE project that could transform lower manhattan to something it never was.....it would create street level retail, retail at the underground mall, it would create a new icon for nyc.....it also could be the booster for a new more impressive construction boom that we can now witness in nyc....this has so much potential.....they have the chance to build something that can change lower manhattan and all they have are fears and not the balls and will to risk anything...if this goes on like the way it is now we will never see a finished WTC complex

remember PA doesn't give a f*** about NY and people. They already proven themselves in past 5 years.

WTF are they doing on GZ? I mean this is THE project that could transform lower manhattan to something it never was.....it would create street level retail, retail at the underground mall, it would create a new icon for nyc.....it also could be the booster for a new more impressive construction boom that we can now witness in nyc....this has so much potential.....they have the chance to build something that can change lower manhattan and all they have are fears and not the balls and will to risk anything...if this goes on like the way it is now we will never see a finished WTC complex

Lower manhattan had all that crap before 9/11. I couldn't careless about the potential, What they need to do is rebuild the WTC. Lets stop talking about it and get it gone.

What the PA is doing is trying to create a situation where Silverstein will default on his lease and then the PA gets the whole site back. If they can delay Silverstein's towers long enough this is what will happen. Then Silverstein will be gone and the PA will stand to reap all the profits from the buildings......however it will make everything take a decade longer but they don't care.

He not going to default on anything and that not what their trying to do. You know there such things as laws. He has a 99 year lease, he'll be long died by the time that lease is up. PA just don't know what their doing never did never will.

I think it's reprehensible that the Port Authority would even utter statements "...it will take 30 years for the WTC to be complete..." My god can you imagine if they'd said such statements back in '02 or '03. They'd have been villified by every politician, citizen, and media outlet all over the world. Now their getting away with statements that it'll take the USA and NYC decades to rebuild what a dozen terrorists destroyed.

Unbelievable!

He not going to default on anything and that not what their trying to do. You know there such things as laws. He has a 99 year lease, he'll be long died by the time that lease is up. PA just don't know what their doing never died never will.

He loses that lease if the buildings aren't substantially complete by 2013.

Its not 2013 its 2009 lets get there first

How many buildings in NYC have been approved, begun, topped out, finished, and filled with people since they emptied out the "bathtub" and reconstructed the subway line and PATH station?

I'm betting it's more than the 7 we lost on 9/11.

- A

The PA is afraid of guaranteeing the billions of dollars of loans Silverstein needs to build 2 and 3WTC without any anchor tenants lined up yet. Keep in mind Silverstein isn't asking for money from the PA, only that they will back stop the loans if he can't pay the bills (basically acting like a cosigner). But without any tenants signed on for his towers, the PA is nervous they'll ultimately have to foot the bill in the end.

I would also be afraid to do so. More delays seem inevitable. :(

http://www.nypost.com/seven/05122009...sey_168841.htm

SPEAKING POWER TO JERSEY

POST EDITORIAL
May 12, 2009

Way to go, Shelly Silver.

"Seven years and eight months after the [9/11] attacks," Silver fumed on Friday, "I am fed up with the stalling and exasperated with the current state of the World Trade Center project."

Hear, hear.

The fact that the project has faltered yet again is an infamy.

It is not only New York that is shamed by this; the nation stands humiliated before the world.

A heroic response to Islamic terror? A show of strength and resilience?

Forget that.

The latest?

Developer Larry Silverstein, who holds the lease on the World Trade Center site, is again at swords' points with the Port Authority. He needs the agency's help with financing in a tough credit market.

But the agency -- a tool used expertly by New Jersey to aid that state at New York's expense -- openly admits that it prefers projects like a new cross-Hudson commuter train tunnel to restoring Ground Zero to normalcy.

And with David Paterson having long since evaporated, Silver has stepped up.

For all our disagreements with the Assembly speaker, we'll give Silver this much: He can be tough when it counts.

"There are other things [NJ Gov. Jon] Corzine wants from the Port Authority," Silver says. "We're either going to accommodate each other or stalemate each other."

Now, no one should want a stalemate.

Yet, clearly, the PA has no intention of letting Ground Zero reconstruction go forward on anything but its own terms.

So if it takes Silver shutting down projects that are important to New Jersey, then we say: Shut 'em down.

Sure, talk first. And, happily, Mayor Bloomberg graciously has offered to host negotiations at Gracie Mansion.

Such a conversation might even succeed -- if Silver makes crystal clear that the price of failure would be a stalemated cross-Hudson train tunnel.

Paterson is hopeless.

So, Silver to the rescue.

PA fires the first shot at Silverstein...

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/...yscrapers.html

Port Authority wants to dump three of five proposed skyscrapers for WTC site

BY Douglas Feiden
May 11th 2009

The incredible shrinking World Trade Center will be cut back from five iconic skyscrapers to just two signature towers under a new Port Authority plan, the Daily News has learned.

Bludgeoned by recession and a war with developer Larry Silverstein, the Port Authority is proposing halving the office space it will build at Ground Zero - from 10 million square feet to 5 million, sources familiar with the plan say.

The sources say the agency's new vision for the site calls for scrapping one tower that would have been taller than the Empire State Building and nixing two others that would have dwarfed the nearby Woolworth Building.

In place of two Silverstein behemoths, each designed by a British lord and soaring 79 stories, the PA would erect a pair of short, squat buildings no taller than four or five floors - coined "stumps" - that could be used for retail shops, according to the proposal.

The vastly scaled-back site plan was disclosed to The News hours before Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver on Friday branded budget-busting delays and cost overruns at the 16-acre site an "embarrassment to our city, our state and our nation."

Mayor Bloomberg promptly followed up by inviting all warring parties to a summit meeting this week.

End of master plan

Revamping the sacred spaces where nearly 3,000 people were killed on 9/11 marks a dramatic break from the original 2003 Daniel Libeskind master plan, which called for a row of cascading office towers to replace the 10.4 million square feet of office space destroyed by terrorists.

Although the Freedom Tower will still climb to its symbolic 1,776 feet, and the Memorial will occupy the heart and soul of the site, the showcase buildings designed by world-class architects - on which Silverstein has already spent hundreds of millions of dollars - will be absent.

"It's getting smaller and smaller and smaller," said Enrique Saurez, a dishwasher from Venezuela who worked at Windows on the World, where 73 employees died. "What happened to their so-called master plan?"

What happened was a calamitous credit crisis that dried up bank financing for Silverstein and a fiscal crunch that has led to falling revenues at PA bridges, tunnels and airports - all amid an increase in borrowing costs.

With a squeeze on cash, lenders, Wall Street tenants, the agency and the builder launched a new round of heated talks to determine exactly who will build what - and on what terms it will be financed.

The result is a PA proposal that would:

- Reduce Tower 2, a planned 79-story, 1,270-foot Silverstein building designed by Lord Norman Foster, to a glorified, prettied-up stump.

- Effectively strip control of 71-story, 1,137-foot Tower 3, designed by Lord Richard Rogers, from Silverstein and reduce it to another stumpy building.

- Abandon all plans for Tower 5, slated to go on the toxic Deutsche Bank building site, for the foreseeable future.

- Underwrite about $1 billion in financing costs and rent abatements for Silverstein on 64-story, 975-foot Tower 4, which is the only building he'd get to construct.

- Go full steam ahead on Tower 4 - but force Silverstein to surrender most of his development fees, insurance proceeds and fine revenues in return.

The PA wouldn't comment on its specific proposals.

"We're committed to rebuilding downtown," said Stephen Sigmund, the authority's chief spokesman.

He said limited public resources were being directed toward "keeping the memorial and other public projects moving forward" - and that office and retail space would be built "to meet the market."

Screws put to Silverstein

Silverstein was initially entitled to build five buildings and 10 million square feet on the site, but agreed in 2006, under enormous political pressure, to surrender the Freedom Tower and one other building. He was also ready to give up one more tower - but not two.

"Our compromise proposal - under which we would own two buildings with [up to] 4 million square feet - is fair, especially since the Port Authority has collected more than $2 billion from Silverstein since 9/11," said Janno Lieber, president of Silverstein's World Trade Center Properties.

"Completing two buildings will assure that the WTC site is a finished, attractive and exciting place that helps - rather than hinders - downtown's revival," he added.

Sources familiar with Silverstein's position complained that the PA is acting unfairly both in setting the financial terms and in mothballing two Silverstein buildings.

A hefty chunk of Tower 4, the lone remaining building built solely by Silverstein, would be occupied by the PA, which would pay below-market rent, they point out. The agency is offering to hike its payments as part of the deal.

New delays to the long-stalled project loom, these sources warn: The PA's plan for stumps - to support retail and serve as stand-ins for towers that could one day be built on top of them - could take some two years to redesign and reengineer.

Since stump construction would take place in the same area as below-grade work on the $3.2 billion Transportation Hub, it could push back that project, now slated for completion in mid-2014, even further, these executives predict.

^^ NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO the disaster continous and it's evolving!

Anyways thx for posting this article.

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...REE/905149986#

Silverstein facing uphill struggle downtown

Port Authority digs in its heels; the agency will finance one building at the World Trade Center but wants one of Silverstein's plots on the site in return.

By Theresa Agovino
May 14, 2009


The Port Authority is demanding that developer Larry Silverstein give it one of the plots for his three planned towers at the World Trade Center site in exchange for helping to finance construction of one his buildings, sources say. To win its aid, the agency is also telling Mr. Silverstein to exercise a lease option that would lock New York City into renting 600,000 square feet in the building that it may back or alternatively, to find another tenant.

The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey and Mr. Silverstein have clashed over funding the developer’s towers and their feud threatens to impede building progress on the site. Mr. Silverstein has asked the Port to help fund two of his three towers but the agency has said it will only consider one because aiding more than that would hurt its balance sheet and put public money at risk in a private, speculative real estate development.

Many real estate executives have said there is no need for new office towers downtown at a time when tenant demand is shrinking, rents are falling and vacancies are rising. Mr. Silverstein has insisted there will be tenants for the towers by the time they open, beginning in 2014. He consistently reminds people he was ridiculed for rebuilding 7 World Trade Center after it was destroyed in the Sept. 11 attacks and points out that the vast majority of the building is now occupied.

Last Friday, Mayor Michael Bloomberg called for a summit to be held this week to end the log jam. That meeting now looks likely to happen next Thursday.

Sources say that Mr. Silverstein is resisting exercising his option with the city for what is called Tower 4 because he believes the agreed upon starting rent of $59 a square foot for the 15-year lease will be way below the market when the building finally opens, currently slated for 2014. Downtown rents are currently $44.58 a square foot, down 11% from last year, according to Cushman & Wakefield Inc. The Port signed a 30-year lease at Tower 4 for 600,000 feet.

The Port, sources say, told Mr. Silverstein that if he doesn’t want to enlist the city he should find an alternate tenant because empty buildings are harder to finance and because they drive down neighborhood rents. The problem is that the recession has pushed the most major tenants to the sidelines and those still scouting the market are in no rush to ink a deal.

Accounting and consulting firm Deloitte is seeking between 600,000 and 800,000 square feet and it asked Silverstein Properties to submit a proposal for Tower 4. However, numerous developers received the requests and sources say the firm is in no hurry to make a decision.

Additionally, the Port has told Mr. Silverstein it wants to take control of the site where he would build what is referred to as Tower 3 so that it can build a squat structure that would house retail tenants. It would give Mr. Silverstein the option of building an office tower or hotel over the stump when the market improves.

Sources say the Port also wants Mr. Silverstein to hand over part of his insurance money to help build the common infrastructure for the site. In return, the Port would build Mr. Silverstein’s infrastructure, stop his rent payments and give him the financing he desperately needs—a deal the agency values at $1.2 billion, sources say.

But other sources familiar with the project say the Port is essentially confiscating Mr. Silverstein’s development rights for Tower 3 without compensation. The source notes that the agency would require Mr. Silverstein to surrender all penalties the Port has paid for missing deadlines—about $100 million—and waive the right to any future fines.

These sources add that the Port is only willing to backstop the debt payments on the tower for 10 years, which could make financing very difficult to find. They add building one tower won’t create the critical mass necessary to lure tenants and retailers to the site.

The Port declined comment on the negotiations. In a statement, Janno Lieber, president of World Trade Center Properties said that the company has already made numerous compromises on the site and that the proposal to build two towers is fair, especially since at one point the developer was supposed to construct five. Moreover, the Port has collected more than $2 billion in payments from Mr. Silverstein.

“As well as employing tens of thousands of workers, completing two buildings will assure that the WTC site is a finished, attractive and exciting place that helps, rather than hinders Downtown's revival. That's what New Yorkers have been promised throughout the past eight years,” he said.

^^

Anymore "good" news? :bash::wallbash:

Nope!

This is a humiliating shameful joke. God Bless America, God Bless NYC and God Bless the P.A.

we have the same discussion here

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?p=36791842#post36791842

Silver hints W.T.C. consensus is to build more towers

By Julie Shapiro
June 5 - 11, 2009

The negotiations about the future of the World Trade Center site have been going on behind closed doors, but on Friday, Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver gave the first hint of what is happening.

The consensus among the stakeholders appears to be shifting toward developer Silverstein Properties’ goal of building as many office towers as possible with the Port Authority’s help, Silver said.

“That’s the purpose,” Silver said in an interview with Downtown Express. “Build more, and build more now. That is our purpose.”

Silverstein cannot build his Church St. office towers on his own because he cannot get construction financing. The Port has agreed to help with Tower 4 but refused to backstop the financing for Tower 2, saying Silverstein can build it when the economy improves and the Port should not be expected to take the risk of financing offices on spec for a private developer. In place of Tower 2 and the neighboring Tower 3, the Port wants to build temporary six-story retail podiums.

But Silver said Friday that now is the time to build the office towers, allying himself very closely with Silverstein’s position. Silver added that Gov. Jon Corzine and Gov. David Paterson are both being “cooperative” in the goal of building more towers now, and Mayor Michael Bloomberg has previously expressed support for building despite the economic downturn.

That is not to say that the stakeholders have sided entirely with Silverstein against the Port Authority. Silver and Bloomberg have called on Silverstein to devote more money to the project, and on Friday Silver said an agreement would require all the parties to make further investments.

“They’re trying to work through a conclusion that has everybody put in a little more: the Port Authority, the city, the state, and most important, Larry Silverstein,” Silver said. “And I hope to get there.”

The closed-door meetings began after an impasse between Silverstein and the Port Authority over the tower financing and delivery of key site infrastructure threatened to halt progress at the site. Alarmed by that prospect, Silver called all the site stakeholders together, and they held their first meeting May 21 at Gracie Mansion, at Bloomberg’s invitation. The meeting included Bloomberg, Silver, both governors, Larry Silverstein and Port Authority executive director Chris Ward.

Since then, Silver said there have been three major meetings with top stakeholders including Larry Silverstein. Those three meetings were held quietly and out of the public eye, often at odd times of the day, Silver said. In addition, Deputy Mayor Bob Lieber has been chairing daily meetings of lower-level staff representing all the parties, a source familiar with the discussions said.

The next publicly announced meeting of the principals will be Thurs., June 11, and the stakeholders have said they hope to have at least the broad outlines of an agreement by then.

“We’re not there yet,” Silver said Friday. “It’s a matter of money, it’s a matter of commitment, it’s a matter of saving money, it’s a matter of refocusing so we can get a result.”

Bloomberg’s office and Silverstein Properties declined to comment. Steve Coleman, Port spokesperson, said only, “Our position on the Port Authority putting in any more money or risk has not changed.”

All the parties involved have been reluctant to talk after Bloomberg made it clear he wanted the negotiations to be entirely private.

“We’re all sworn to secrecy,” Silver told Downtown Express, explaining why he could not go into more detail.

But Silver did repeat his position that now is the time to build Towers 2 and 4, even though the economy is down.

“We’ll be in a different business cycle by 2014 or 2015,” Silver said. “And there are some people who think, there is no other development going on in the city, no other office space. If you look at all the studies, everybody will tell you there’s going to be a need for expanded commercial space in New York City.”

Silver listed the other office projects that are falling through, from Hudson Yards to Atlantic Yards, which will make the World Trade Center towers all the more important.

“New York, Downtown Manhattan, ground zero is going to be the place to go,” Silver said.

Silver said the rebuilt World Trade Center could follow the example of the original Twin Towers, which initially filled with government offices because there was little demand for commercial space.

Silver’s first district office was in room 5489 of 2 W.T.C., he recalled, and later he was moved down to the 26th floor as the real estate grew more valuable. Finally, he was moved out of the building altogether.

“Hopefully there will be a market for it,” Silver said of the new office towers at the site, “and we can prepare for it.”

http://www.downtownexpress.com/de_319/silverhints.html

I have heard that Silverstein has private financing for towers 2 and 3. They should build now since materials are much cheaper at the moment. As noted in the article, by the time these towers are completed, demand will exist.

I have heard that Silverstein has private financing for towers 2 and 3. They should build now since materials are much cheaper at the moment. As noted in the article, by the time these towers are completed, demand will exist.

Silverstein does not have the financing for towers 2 and 3. The insurance money he received after 9/11 has long been spent or handed over to the PA. He definetly wants to build towers 2 and 3, but no banks will loan him the money to build the towers since he has no tenants lined up yet.

I have a friend in the industry with inside information. There are sources of money other than banks. Who is financing spec. towers in London, such as the Shard?

By the way, how is someone from Minnesota an authority on private negotiations occurring in NY?

great! i liked the project.

God bless america :)

just don't blame islam guys, anyway. this budling is one of my favortase and its a shame its an app :bash::bash::bash::bash:

inshalah in the future will see it standing high , fuck Osama or who ever caused it !
:)

America is the only western country with a leader that has Muslim roots!

The June 11 deadline has been extended for a few more days. Hopefully Tower 2 may start construction soon if they can set things right.

simple, but a nice design

this is embarassing :(

The June 11 deadline has been extended for a few more days. Hopefully Tower 2 may start construction soon if they can set things right.

any news on the financing?

what do we know gentlemen, regarding 2 and 3 wtc?

According to Wired NY forum, their is a new render up along the WTC site in 2WTC's corner showing this tower now in "stump" form. 3WTC's render has not changed (yet?). Hopefully will have pictures soon to confirm it.

A couple possibilities is that Silverstein has given up on the tower with the credit crisis being what it is and no tenants looking for office space. Or he's trying to get a negative reaction from the public and hopefully get the PA to go all in with him and backstop this tower.

How much money did Americans give after 9/11? I remember the figure in Billions? Where did all that money go? Wasn't there a 'rebuild the WTC' fund? How much government money went to the rebuild?

I found this too:
Federal Government Giving $700 Million Less in 9/11 Aid - Oct 22, 2002
Remember that $21.4 billion in federal aid New York was promised after the Sept. 11 attacks? Well, subtract about $700 million. It was quietly taken off the books by the White House and Congress in recent months.

http://www.gothamgazette.com/rebuilding_nyc/topics/governance/feds.shtml

Interesting to re-read the things that were going on 1 year after the attacks.

Billions for rebuilding were made available in Liberty Bonds. But I'm sure much of it has already been spent on cleanup and restoring the PATH lines. Long before actual work on the towers and memorial began.

as nyguy posted @SSP:

It's not a matter of if the towers would all get built, but when.

any updates from the places where will be constraction???

This was originally posted on the wtc 1 thread by Onn


Liberty Bonds by Christmas?
N.Y. Agency Plans $2.6 Billion Deal
Thursday, December 3, 2009
By Ted Phillips

The Liberty Development Corp. plans to market $2.59 billion of tax-exempt Liberty Bonds before Christmas for development at the World Trade Center site in order to meet a year-end deadline.

The bonds will be sold to partially finance construction of three office towers with 6.2 million square feet of office space that Silverstein Properties Inc. plans to build on the site.

Due to delays and legal wrangling at the site, the bond proceeds will be put into escrow because the proceeds can’t be used right away for construction.

Following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, Congress created the Liberty Bond program, which authorized $8 billion of private-activity bonds to revitalize Lower Manhattan. The program, which was extended once before, expires on Dec. 31. New York City and New York State officials have sought an extension of the program through Congress, but with no guarantee that an extension would happen, the LDC, which is a subsidiary of the Empire State Development Corp., decided to meet the deadline.

The LDC plans to market the bonds the week of either Dec. 14 or Dec. 21. The bonds are still subject to a public hearing and require approval from Gov. David Paterson and Mayor Michael Bloomberg, which is expected.

Goldman, Sachs & Co. is underwriter. Winston & Strawn LLP is bond counsel.

Silverstein, which holds a lease to the site, is in arbitration proceedings with the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, the site’s owner. The developer has sought greater public financial support for the office towers due to the delays at the site and the economic downturn, but the Port Authority and Paterson were unwilling to give Larry Silverstein, the company’s owner, everything he wanted. Closing arguments in the arbitration are scheduled for this month.

The Port Authority was allocated $700 million of Liberty Bonds to be issued by the New York City Industrial Development Agency for the development of the Freedom Tower, but it is unlikely that those bonds will be issued by the end of the year.

Spokesman Steve Coleman said the authority wants to get an extension on the Liberty Bonds and would not comment on the “hypothetical situation” of issuing the bonds before the end of the year.
http://www.bondbuyer.com/issues/118_...1004549-1.html

about damn time let get it built let's get started right now

the building is 1358 feet with 78 floors

1,350 feet 79 floors but there just number. Its about getting it built

Why are they going for bonds to finace the project?
Don't the banks have the confidence to do it?

^^
Yes, but what I don't get is why Silverstein wasn't going for the bonds earlier if he knew he could get a piece of the pie. The bonds seem like the most painless way to get this done, why did he take the Port Authority to court instead of pursing the bonds? Something sounds fishy to me...I hope it's not. But this whole thing has been totally unexpected, we have not heard anything about the Liberty Bonds in years, as far as I can remember.

The bonds haven't just been used for WTC development. They were being used by other developers in lower manhattan. Beekman was funded by them, and also 123 Washington if memory serves.

It does seem fishy. I think the most likely explanation is that their was some quid pro quo. Silverstein gets money from the Liberty Bonds, and the PA doesn't have to give back the billions they received from them.

I can't wait for the arbitration announcement. That should shed more light on things. Could be this week or the following.

I guess all we can do is hope for the best, at the very least we have two towers rising on the site now. It's just without Tower 2 I think the site is going to look all wrong, lopsided. Someone has to put up the money to fund it.

With the bonds, Tower 2, which is the best one in my opinion, is funded. Only Rogers' Tower 3 remains unfunded.

If they had to cut a tower, Tower 3 would be the one simply because of it's location on the site. I would very much like to have all three, but you have to work with the reality of the times. For Tower 3 there is only hope.

I agree. If he loses the arbitration, Silverstein plans to continue now with Towers 1,2 and 4. 1 and 4 are largely pre-leased to city, state and federal entities. A retail podium will be built for T3. However, as I much prefer T2, I'm fine with that.
Silverstein has nothing to do with Tower 1.

this tower simply has to be built, it's my favourite one! :) i think it's even more beautiful than the FT. they should have make 2WTC as the new FT and increase the height, would be more pleasing. 2WTC certainly has a great designe, i hope constrcution starts soon. the old man must win!

He doesn't need to win the arbitration in order to get the money for 2WTC. He has it now with the bonds. He needs to win in order to get the money for 3WTC which I could live without anyway.

i know that, but the WTC complex needs tower 3, it wouldn't look complete without it imo.

EDIT: look at this beauty! tower 3 is also cool. i think tower 4 would be the one i could live without it.

from SSP:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2507/4157884219_7dc02b0620_b.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/119998174/original.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/meh_cd/wtc/NEW%20wtc/3954471641_f9271dae0a_o.jpg

I understand that the funding is now in place, but is there anyone here who knows when foundation work can start? It shouldn't take too long as the design was finalized more than a year ago. Has a contractor been named?

I believe that the foundation is done and is ready for the tower to rise.

If by foundation you mean the area is ready for construction of the basement levels then yes, but there is currently nothing in place at the Tower 2 site.

Tower 2 will be one of the most beautiful supertalls in the world. It's a building that could be built only in Shanghai. The unusual circumstances of 9/11 are the only reason why it's being built in NY.

Wait, huh? What the fuck are you talking about?

well, i think he means that such towers as 2WTC aren't going to be built in NYC for a long time, see 'the battle over tower verre'. only because of the destruction of the old WTC towers, this tower will be built - in short: it's a replacement. and about shanghai: it's the city where futuristic skyscrapers (like 2WTC) are at home.

Tower 2 will be one of the most beautiful supertalls in the world. It's a building that could be built only in Shanghai. The unusual circumstances of 9/11 are the only reason why it's being built in NY.

why doing you have to say dumb shit like that. Its design for New York and nowhere else. Before 9/11 we had 4 supertalls and now we have 4 again.there will be more to come

Tower 2 will be one of the most beautiful supertalls in the world. It's a building that could be built only in Shanghai. The unusual circumstances of 9/11 are the only reason why it's being built in NY.

I agree, it's a special design. And I think Roger's tower is even better. They're a great pair. I wouldn't have expected a project so ambitious usually, it's a shame it had to come about through those circumstances.

And I love the render with the Statue of Liberty in it. A really good 'f*** off' to the terrorists.

what i dont get is why the hell did the first ones collapse in the first place? i thought the only way to melt steel was by a closed firebox used by forgers or by thermite? and how did it come down in such a short amount of time that was the equivelent of just dropping an object in the middle of the air? wouldnt the 75 floors or so below where the plane hit have at least some resistence at all? i know a lot of questions it just doesnt seem like the wtc collapse was even scientifically feasible.

what i dont get is why the hell did the first ones collapse in the first place? i thought the only way to melt steel was by a closed firebox used by forgers or by thermite? and how did it come down in such a short amount of time that was the equivelent of just dropping an object in the middle of the air? wouldnt the 75 floors or so below where the plane hit have at least some resistence at all? i know a lot of questions it just doesnt seem like the wtc collapse was even scientifically feasible.

I'm going to nip this in the bud.

Steel doesn't have to melt to lose its strength.

It didn't drop at free fall speed. Pull up a raw video and record the time for yourself.

Lastly, keep this kind of trash out of this thread.

how is it trash? i was simply asking questions!

in terms of the melted steel, there was a lot of it at the ground level, for even weeks after the disaster. of corse steel can become less stable as it is heated up, but again it did in fact melt. have a look:

http://9eleven.info/moltenstreamthermate.jpg
http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/Graphics-Other/PSCI/WtcSteel.jpg

sure of corse it could have been photoshopped, but really try to explain to me how exactly this thing could have happened!

how is it trash? i was simply asking questions!

in terms of the melted steel, there was a lot of it at the ground level, for even weeks after the disaster. of corse steel can become less stable as it is heated up, but again it did in fact melt. have a look:

sure of corse it could have been photoshopped, but really try to explain to me how exactly this thing could have happened!

Not to be offensive or anything, but guys like you are the center of a good quantity of jokes at my department ( Civil Engineering, specializing in Structural Engineering). You can ask yourself all the questions you want, but if you don't have the knowledge to answer them, you are going to have to believe what the people that have it, tell you. That is, not those pathetic conspiracy theories website, but people a structural engineer, and possibly an advanced BC grad (sometimes also MSE's, but only regarding the dynamics involving the steel and not the entire structure).
The rest is just.... ignorance.


As for the tower: I have to agree with those who are in love with the design: it has been my favorite since the beginning. Truly gorgeous. Hope the rest of the way goes smoothly enough to see this beauty done in a timely manner.

how is it trash? i was simply asking questions!

in terms of the melted steel, there was a lot of it at the ground level, for even weeks after the disaster. of corse steel can become less stable as it is heated up, but again it did in fact melt. have a look:

sure of corse it could have been photoshopped, but really try to explain to me how exactly this thing could have happened!

Your first picture isn't even steel, and it certainly isn't thermite like the filename suggests it is. For years people speculated that it was aluminum from the plane that was streaming out of that corner of Tower 2, but someone recently figured it out. In that exact corner of that floor there was a modification listed for "UPS." People assumed it meant the shipping company UPS, but it turns out that it was an Uninterruptible Power Supply for Fuji Bank. The molten metal dripping down the side of the building is lead.

http://11-settembre.blogspot.com/2007/02/ups-on-81st-floor-of-wtc2.html

Your second picture shows molten metal* some time after the collapse. That has no bearing on what caused the building itself to fall down.

*How do we even know if it is steel? We don't.

I see. Well it cleared up some of it, I guess...

This thread is about the construction of WTC2.

Not "I was simply asking questions". That is no excuse for turning this thread into a debate about why the towers fell. Watch a documentary, then go to a site devoted to that topic. Can it be any more clear?

Please delete, wrong thread sorry

I believe that the foundation is done and is ready for the tower to rise.

That is true, but what interested me was when crews will assemble and start rock-blasting.(There probably isn't an exact answer to this question yet.)

Uh no, there is no foundation at the 2WTC site. There isn't anything. Just dirt.

why did someone ask why the WTC fell. I guest u didnt see it someone took a plane and smash it into it. Learn something know didnt u not really

Tower 2 will be one of the most beautiful supertalls in the world. It's a building that could be built only in Shanghai. The unusual circumstances of 9/11 are the only reason why it's being built in NY.

I couldn't agree with you any more. Very rare that NYC gets something special like 2WTC. It would definitely fit in in Lujiazui.

new renders!! :drool:

NYguy, SSP

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/85146481/original.jpg


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/90034618/large.jpg


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/101045388/large.jpg


http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/104519099/large.jpg

so whats the chances of this tower getting built?

^ 63.4572%



But really you'll find out at the end of the month with the wrap up of the arbitration.

new renders!! :drool:


Not to be harsh, but none of those are new. http://www.wtc.com/media/images/wtc-model-shots

I couldn't agree with you any more. Very rare that NYC gets something special like 2WTC. It would definitely fit in in Lujiazui.

Anywhere in Pudong would be nice!:)

Not to be harsh, but none of those are new. http://www.wtc.com/media/images/wtc-model-shots

they sure aren't I've seen them about two years ago. The spire on tower 1 is different

Not to be harsh, but none of those are new. http://www.wtc.com/media/images/wtc-model-shots

i don't think so, take another look. ;)

They're all from 2008 :weird:

i don't think so, take another look. ;)

I've had them all in my pictures folder for over a year, so I'm not sure what you are getting at.

They're all from 2008 :weird:

:nuts:

NEWS!

NYguy, SSP
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a7Eya8KY_O6Q

World Trade Center Bonds Seeking Year-End Sale Lead Muni Market

By Jeremy R. Cooke
Dec. 21 (Bloomberg)


New York Liberty Development Corp., a state arm created to finance loans for rebuilding in lower Manhattan, seeks to meet a year-end deadline this week to sell tax-exempt bonds for three World Trade Center skyscrapers.

Investors will get to buy $2.58 billion of debt with an initial interest rate lasting 10 to 13 months and top short-term ratings. The proceeds will be held in escrow and invested in U.S. Treasuries. New rates will be set before the money can be loaned to Larry Silverstein, the trade-center leaseholder and developer who plans to construct Towers 2, 3 and 4 at the site of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

The bonds’ initial rate will likely be less than a half- percentage point, comparable to short-term state and local government notes, said Steven Shachat of Alpine Woods Capital Investors LLC.

“They should have no trouble putting this deal away,” said Shachat, who oversees $2.3 billion as manager of the Alpine Ultra Short Tax Optimized Income Fund and the Alpine Municipal Money Market Fund in Purchase, New York. “The remainder of the year looks pretty anemic.”

Municipal issuers plan to sell less than $1 billion in debt this holiday-shortened week, excluding the trade center deal, data compiled by Bloomberg show.

While construction on Silverstein Properties Inc.’s three Greenwich Street office towers has faced delays, the federal program that authorized tax-exempt loans to help for-profit companies revitalizing lower Manhattan expires Dec. 31, necessitating the escrow structure.

Liberty Bonds

Underwriting the debt offering will be Goldman Sachs Group Inc., which also used tax-exempt Liberty Bonds to help fund the investment bank’s new headquarters at 200 West St., northwest of the World Trade Center site.

A Bloomberg yield index for top-rated, one-year municipal notes on Dec. 16 reached 29 basis points, or hundredths of a percentage point, the lowest since at least 1991.

The average seven-day yield on tax-free or municipal money- market funds held at a record low of 3 basis points during the week ended Dec. 15, according to data from iMoneyNet of Westborough, Massachusetts.

The Alpine money fund offered 22 basis points in the firm’s latest weekly survey, the second-highest yield of any in the retail category behind Marshall Tax-Free Money Market Fund.

“I’m getting tired of looking at rates this low,” Shachat said. When it comes to the Federal Reserve raising its target on short-term interest, “the sooner the better,” he said.

World Trade Center

The World Trade Center project bonds will be sold with a final maturity in 2049 and a so-called mandatory tender period from October 2010 through January 2011, allowing them to be bought back and reoffered with different interest. A smaller batch of bonds, totaling $12.5 million and dedicated to cover capitalized interest, will pay a variable weekly rate.

The Silverstein-developed towers, on the east side of the site, would have about 6.2 million square feet (576,000 square meters) of office space under designs by architects Norman Foster,Richard Rogers and Fumihiko Maki unveiled in 2006. The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, owner of the overall site, is building 1 World Trade Center, formerly known as the Freedom Tower, for a late 2013 opening as the tallest building in the U.S.

_______________________________________________________


http://www.bondbuyer.com/issues/118_243/liberty-bonds-on-deadline-1005241-1.html

Liberty Bonds on Deadline
LDC Deals $2.59B For WTC Towers

Monday, December 21, 2009
By Ted Phillips


The New York Liberty Development Corp. plans to begin marketing $2.59 billion of escrow bonds tomorrow to meet a year-end deadline to sell Liberty bonds for redevelopment of the World Trade Center site.

The authorization for the Liberty Bonds expires on Dec. 31, and although it could be extended by Congress, the issuer and developer Silverstein Properties Inc. aren't taking any chances.

"We're doing it this way because we don't want to lose the tax exemption on this deal because it's critically important to the financing of this project," said Frances Walton, treasurer of the LDC. "We didn't want to risk it not being extended."

The developer plans to eventually use the bond proceeds to finance construction of three office towers at the World Trade Center site, but delays, ongoing arbitration, and the economic downturn have made it impossible for the proceeds to be used straight away.

In the interim, the issuer is marketing mandatory tender bonds that all can be called on Oct. 12, 2010, according to the preliminary official statement. This effectively turns the bonds into short-term debt. The tender would allow for the debt to be remarketed as variable or fixed bonds with proceeds used for construction or as new escrow bonds if necessary.

The debt will be the obligations of limited-liability corporations controlled by Silverstein.

The bonds will be marketed to institutional investors in two series. A retail order period is not planned. Goldman, Sachs & Co. is underwriting the bonds and Winston & Strawn LLP is bond counsel......

Congress created the Liberty bond program following the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, to help revitalize lower Manhattan with an $8 billion allocation of private-activity bonds. Except for this offering and $701.6 million allocated to finance a tower on behalf of the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, all the bonds have been issued.

The authority owns the World Trade Center site and plans to use its allocation — to be issued by the New York City Industrial Development Agency — to help finance its $3.1 billion tower, 1 World Trade Center, also known as the Freedom Tower.

The Port Authority has not announced plans to use the allocation before the end of the year and executive director Christopher Ward has said he is hopeful Congress will enact a one-year extension. The House passed an extension earlier this month but the Senate has not acted on the bill. Observers have suggested an extension could be passed retroactively early next year.

Silverstein holds leases to the sites where its three towers are to be built. In 2006, the Port Authority agreed to complete preparation work on the sites for the three towers and turn them over to the developer in 2007 and 2008 or pay $300,000 a day in penalties.

After delays, the authority finally turned the last of the sites over to the developer on Aug. 24, by which time it had incurred $140 million in penalties. Under the agreement, the agency can foreclose on the tower sites if they are not substantially completed in 2012, though there are provisions for extensions to the deadlines.

Citing the delays and the economic downturn, Silverstein said it needed additional public support to finance its towers. The Port Authority made concessions but the developer was not satisfied. Silverstein began arbitration proceedings allowed under the development agreement in August, claiming that the Port Authority was in material breach of the pact.

The developer is seeking a new schedule to complete the towers to reflect the authority's delay and alleged damages caused to the project as well as damages calculated on the amount of rent the developer will have paid to the authority during the time it was unable to develop the site through final completion and the initial rent up period, according to details of the arbitration disclosed in a recent Port Authority official statement. Annual rent for the three sites is approximately $78 million, according to a source familiar with the matter.

If a settlement is not reached, Silverstein plans to commence a second arbitration seeking at least $2.75 billion in damages, claiming that the development agreement was a product of negligent and possibly fraudulent misrepresentation, according to the Port Authority OS. The authority disputes Silverstein's claims.

An individual familiar with the negotiations said the arbitration proceedings were complete and the parties are waiting for a decision.

In an interview, Gov. David Paterson said that while he expected the arbitrators to rule in favor of the bi-state agency, a ruling against the Port Authority wouldn't necessarily be the end of the negotiations. "We might appeal the decision," he said. "We cannot be financing profit right now when we can't finance to keep our state solvent."

Silverstein spokesman Bud Perrone and the Port Authority declined to comment on the arbitration. He said the bond proceeds could come out of escrow pending resolution with the authority on a range of issues, including the schedule of the completion of infrastructure.

In addition to 1 World Trade Center, the agency is investing $3.2 billion in a transportation hub to serve the site with an estimated completion date of mid-2014, as well as $914 million for other capital projects at the site.

When completed, Silverstein's three towers will add 4.4 million square feet of office space and more than 273,000 square feet of retail space to downtown, according to the preliminary official statement.

Whether downtown Manhattan can absorb the office space is another question. The recession has hurt commercial real estate. Manhattan's office vacancy rate in November was 11.3%, a 3.5 percentage point increase compared to 12 months earlier, according to a Cushman & Wakefield report. At the same time asking rents have decreased to $56 per square foot, a 21% drop from $70.87 per square foot a year ago, the report said.

Kathryn Wylde, president and chief executive officer of the Partnership for New York City, a business group, said the new office space would fill a need.

"Much of the downtown office stock is aging and is likely to be converted to residential use over the next 20 years so that new state-of-art office space will in fact be needed," Wylde said. The development at the site is "going to both be necessary and be a real improvement in the Lower Manhattan business district," she said.

Citing the delays and the economic downturn, Silverstein said it needed additional public support to finance its towers.

What arrangements will they make for this to happen? Taxes I bet, but this is a cheesy idea.:colgate:

Well probably not at all, as this could be common for such projects.

they do it to build stadiums. I gladly give some change to this thing finished.

Whats the latest?

When does construction start?

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20091231/FREE/912319998/0/ebcordovahttp://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20091231/FREE/912319998/0/ebcordova

Let the bureucratic hell continue.:bash:

SDomeone on WIred New Yorks Memorial page said that they have seen some new things being delievered behind 200 Greenwich street where there was nothing, so maybe silverstein will start with the bonds he got

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20091231/FREE/912319998/0/ebcordovahttp://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20091231/FREE/912319998/0/ebcordova

Let the bureucratic hell continue.:bash:

That article doesn’t say anything...there hasn't been a ruling in court yet.

That article doesn’t say anything...there hasn't been a ruling in court yet.

Yes, but I would be very surprised if this means the end of the talks. I hope so, this is getting absurd.

Developer Larry Silverstein was slapped down Wednesday in his bid to snag $3.5 billion in penalties from the Port Authority because of building delays at Ground Zero.

An impartial panel of construction experts nixed Silverstein's demand to pocket $788 million in rent relief and shut the door on his bid for $2.7 billion in future damages.

Silverstein had argued the PA's failure to build the Transportation Hub, Vehicular Security Center and other key structures at the World Trade Center site crippled his ability to finance and market three towers along Church St.

Claiming he was entitled to 10 years of free rent - plus a fat payday for damages - Silverstein took the case to arbitration in August, blaming the PA for blowing its obligations under a 2006 Master Development Agreement.

The three-member panel shot him down.

"We are not persuaded by [his] claim that the PA acted in bad faith and thereby breached the agreement," the ruling said.

The panel said Silverstein failed to show the PA's "action or inaction" at Ground Zero delayed construction of his WTC towers.

Gov. Paterson quickly applauded the ruling, calling it "the most responsible approach to rebuilding at the WTC site - to move the project forward in a way that protects the public's resources."

Moving to end the bitter and costly battle over the sacred site, the panel gave the agency and the builder 45 days to develop a new set of schedules to rebuild Ground Zero - or else.

If the feuding parties fail to come to terms, the panel said it would dictate how the 16 acres are rebuilt.

New timetables and funding schemes could also mean new delays at the troubled site and an uncertain fate for some key buildings.

"I'm ready to work with the PA 2-4/7 to hammer out a deal assuring that the World Trade Center is fully rebuilt as quickly as possible," Silverstein said.

"One thing is clear from the ruling," Mayor Bloomberg said in a statement. "There is a deal to be made."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2010/01/28/2010-01-28_wtc_developer_denied_35b_pa_payoff.html

the WTC2 future looks very bleak :ohno:

^^
No its not, the liberty bonds. :)

^^
No its not, the liberty bonds. :)

Silverstein has to be able to sell the bonds to private investers to raise capital. It's going to be very difficult without any tenants lined up.

Silverstein will probably be able to sell the bonds to help pay for 4WTC (thanks to the PA being a tenant) more than 2WTC.

I'm sick of the PA the city should have never giving them control. Time for somebody to step up and do their job.

I am really sorry to hear this project was engulfed in red tape yet again. :ohno: I really wish it can speed up and finish the construction of this great complex. I wish luck to the people who cover and build this project with speedy resolve to the problems and even faster construction pace in the coming days/weeks. Hopefully we can change the status to U/C soon.

I am really sorry to hear this project was engulfed in red tape yet again. :ohno: I really wish it can speed up and finish the construction of this great complex. I wish luck to the people who cover and build this project with speedy resolve to the problems and even faster construction pace in the coming days/weeks. Hopefully we can change the status to U/C soon.

we gonna have to wait another almost 2 month in order to find out if WTC2 will be build, as for WTC3= 99% sure it's not gonna get build in next 10 years.

we gonna have to wait another almost 2 month in order to find out if WTC2 will be build, as for WTC3= 99% sure it's not gonna get build in next 10 years.

well, if there's going to be a decision between the two towers, i really hope 2 WTC makes the run. of course the best solution is to build both towers now! :)

^^ Build a parking lot on the site of WTC 2 and 3, just like the other superpower... :lol:

:ohno:

Parking garage underground would be ok above ground will be ugly unless its like the trump tower where its incorporated into the bottom of the building.

this is will be one of the best high rise ever built in NY...and BTW this tower already appear in on film...oh yeah...BABYLON A.D. starting vince diesel...when they go to New york...oh :omg: is so incredible....I really love this tower...Congrats:applause: to NY you did again jay...:D...now you can brag a lil more...along side with beautiful alicia keys...the concreat jungle...NY ;):)

concrete jungle where dreams are made of, theres nothing you cant do, now youre in new york:)

You can't do what you in New York. And we don't make dreams here we break em. Just ask Silverstein he had a dream, finish his new WTC by 2011. But those dreams were crush by the weight of reality. You wanna make it happen in this city, your going to have to do it the hard way.

You can't do what you in New York. And we don't make dreams here we break em. Just ask Silverstein he had a dream, finish his new WTC by 2011. But those dreams were crush by the weight of reality. You wanna make it happen in this city, your going to have to do it the hard way.

LOL...hard way anh???or perhaps Brooklyn way...home the great rappers..B.I.G., Tupac, lil kim, Fabolous aka loso and of curse....the hahaha Jay :nocrook:

concrete jungle where dreams are made of, theres nothing you cant do, now youre in new york:)

indeed I can wait to go there :D

http://i34.tinypic.com/4kbbyg.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/nyguy/image/66462508/original.jpg

this are the towers givin a NYC nice and beautiful skyline...this NYC plus the towers in 2020 or more :D...is so beautiful...

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/9475/10719344.jpg

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/4471/11622692.jpg

the only city in the world that have capacity to reach this level tokyo and hong kong...

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/8788/24574004.jpg

even the roads have light...I really hope NYC become like this...:)

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/5593/59323963.jpg

If I'm not mistaken, this will be times Square...:omg::uh: simply beautiful...it's cities like this that give # strength for you carrie on

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/1567/62103279.jpg

look at thoses babies my friends...tell me if that ain't beautiful?...like I said this skyline will be the best ever made in NYC

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/8382/44463070.jpg

even the cabs will be different and modern and with technology

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/2703/79702590.jpg

Look at them standing tall in all over NYC...this what I'm talking 'bout...outstanding

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/1645/81003334.jpg

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/885/52978072.jpg

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/272/32774568.jpg

^^ It ain't that great. Build it in Calgary and let Rem Koolhaas have a crack at WTC2.

wow pretty cool!!

the only city in the world that have capacity to reach this level tokyo and hong kong...


you are forgetting shanghai and other chinese megacities. but yeah i have to admit those pics are really cool. gotta watch this movie! :D

You can't do what you in New York. And we don't make dreams here we break em. Just ask Silverstein he had a dream, finish his new WTC by 2011. But those dreams were crush by the weight of reality. You wanna make it happen in this city, your going to have to do it the hard way.
The only thing that happens fast in NYC is baseball and football stadiums, OK with football stadium is actually in New Jersey. Sporting facilities get built quickly without political interference, anything else gets dragged down forever. Somehow even government money for facilities associated with the stadiums seems to be readily available.

LOL...hard way anh???or perhaps Brooklyn way...home the great rappers..B.I.G., Tupac, lil kim, Fabolous aka loso and of curse....the hahaha Jay :nocrook:

Yeah all of that sounds good, Tupac isn't from Brooklyn he from Harlem. That movie is ass backward tower 2 isn't taller then tower 1. Its fair to say PA isn't going to help silverstein finish his towers. We may never see any other towers other then tower 4 built. But thats the way of the world. And to post #169 thats isn't time square it's in Lower Manhattan.

Yeah all of that sounds good, Tupac isn't from Brooklyn he from Harlem. That movie is ass backward tower 2 isn't taller then tower 1. Its fair to say PA isn't going to help silverstein finish his towers. We may never see any other towers other then tower 4 built. But thats the way of the world. And to post #169 thats isn't time square it's in Lower Manhattan.

thanks for correcting me...but I thought that he was from brooklyn..but anyway...the movie may not be so good..but if the new york really become like that...it will simply stunnin...

you are forgetting shanghai and other chinese megacities. but yeah i have to admit those pics are really cool. gotta watch this movie! :D

yeah I thought 'bout shangai...but I'm not really sure if shanghai is up to this...but they 85% of the chances...I do agree that shanghai could also get in this list...but the other chinese megacities...I have my doubts...pequim is way far to be like that...so tokyo,hong kong and yes shanghai...:D...I was disappointed with burj khalifa premiere..I thought that would be like thoses picure above...:(

NY will never look like that. People are living in downtown Manhattan and would be bothered by the intense lighting effects, especially at night. That would never be allowed. Stop dreaming, it is a fantasy.

Cities where residents are not given much power to influene their environment could reach that level of lighting -- perhaps in China (Shanghai or Chonquing has the best chance). I doubt Tokyo will expand its lighting effects outside of its major commercial poles due to resident density. Actually, I doubt any global city will be able to do those lighting effects over the entire city like this movie depicts. However, it will be an Asian city if there are any at all, and most likley an East Asian city. European cities are too used to catering to resident's concerns, same with NA. Latin America, ME, Africa, Australia and India have shown no inclination to adapt such installations. I believe it will be somwhere in East Asia, with NY being the best example of this in the Western world. All signs point to Shanghai, as it is a growing metropolis looking to make a big statement on the global stage, while Japan is mature and ageing.

I really hope they are able to resolve all issues and get this tower built. IMO, it is by far the most attractive of the proposed WTC buildings.

So awesomeee!!! do you know when is thid going to be build?

I could see lower manhattan looking like that. Without the spot lights of course. Plus Lower Manhattan mostly office towers anyway. And with are luck, it will be built in the next ten years just like tower1. But who really knows.

I'm pretty sure WTC 2 will be built. Eventually. Maybe in 10 years.

I don't mind waiting a while (5 or 10 years) for this to be built, but what I don't want is for them to change the design and/or build something smaller.

Editorial from The Villager.

"A Deal to be made"


http://www.thevillager.com/villager_354/editorial.html

"In today’s credit market, clearly, Silverstein can’t put much more in on the front end than he has already offered. But as we have said previously, he could offer the Port Authority a lot more on the back end. Silverstein had offered the agency about 30 percent ownership in Towers 2 and 4 in exchange for backstopping loans. That may not be enough but it is a substantial offer and the Port Authority should embrace the negotiations on this track. There is no feasible way to develop the sites without Silverstein, so the Port Authority should start thinking about a percentage that would provide itself and the public enough of a return to justify the loan guarantees."

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/02/19/2010-02-19_silverstein_nixes_plans_for_tower_2.html :bash:

Why does everyone keep treating this news as meaning that 2WTC is canceled? God people are stupid.

So basically there will be two massive holes in the ground for the next 5 to 10 years. Unbelievable.

So basically there will be two massive holes in the ground for the next 5 to 10 years. Unbelievable.

4 holes actually...

Well I don't really care, as long as they build something! Tower 3 is better than neither of the two towers, however the Port Authority has not committed to this deal yet. Until they do that nothing is going to happen.

Building Tower 3 over Tower 2 is definitely easier, considering foundations for Tower 3 were already started a long time ago and it’s clearly the less costly building. And one of the big problems for the Port Authority was that there were supposed to be utilities for the transportation hub in the towers structures. If the port got rid of Tower 2 that would offer them a larger area to put these utilities, instead of trying to squeeze them into the Tower 3 site. I could see the Port Authority accepting this deal, but their uncooperativeness with the rest of the site up until now greatly concerns me.

LARRY SILVERSTEIN PROPOSES TO DUMP 2 WTC

http://gothamist.com/2010/02/19/silverstein_proposes_to_dump_world.php

For fucks sake people, no one is proposing to "dump" 2WTC. Larry Silverstein proposed putting some money up for getting Tower 3 started now, with 2WTC on the backburner.

For fucks sake people, no one is proposing to "dump" 2WTC. Larry Silverstein proposed putting some money up for getting Tower 3 started now, with 2WTC on the backburner.

It seems highly unlikely Tower 2 is going to get built as is proposed right now, if Larry is putting all his chips into Tower 3. It was Tower 3 which on the chopping board a few months ago, Larry was willing to accept something else there. He's changed his mind, but I don't see how Tower 2 is going to get built if they can barely build Tower 3. And no, there is no deal for Tower 3 right now even. And personally I agree Tower 2 is more important, the site is going to look like an afterthought without it. But I don't see where the money is going to come from if the port is not willing to pay for any of it.

For fucks sake people, no one is proposing to "dump" 2WTC. Larry Silverstein proposed putting some money up for getting Tower 3 started now, with 2WTC on the backburner.

yeah, tower 2 will be on hold for a long time, the term would be indefinitely.i have no problem with that when there is still a chance to get it built, i'm just afraid of the possibility of a change in design and even worse in height.

There is some debate about how far the PATH station can go without 2 WTC getting built at least to street level. So it seems that Silverstein is putting more money up front into getting 3 WTC done so that the Port Authority or someone else will almost be forced to do something at 2 WTC. Larry is ever the poker player...and at his age you'd think he'd stick to Pinochle.

New York's Bloomberg Pulls $5 Billion From Quadrangle

BY PETER LATTMAN
New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg is pulling roughly $5 billion of personal assets from Quadrangle Group's asset-management arm, according to people familiar with the situation.

The move deals a blow to the New York private-equity and investment firm, which is already reeling from the departure of its co-founder Steven Rattner and an investigation by the New York state attorney general into how Quadrangle secured an investment from New York state's pension fund.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704511304575076062580082090.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTWhatsNewsCollection

Come on Bloomberg, stop teasing us! :lol:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704511304575076062580082090.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTWhatsNewsCollection

Come on Bloomberg, stop teasing us! :lol:

why is this here bloomberg shouldn't have to put up billions of his dollars because Silverstein won't. They want to sell tower 1 then selling it to Bloomy and front that money for the rest of the WTC. But I don't see that happening.

From Crains New York

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article/20100223/REAL_ESTATE/100229967#

New York, New York City, Manhattan, Downtown, Financial District, World Trade Center

The Port Authority of New York and New Jersey and Silverstein Properties Inc. representatives are slated to meet Tuesday to discuss the developer’s proposal for ending the feud with the agency over help financing two of Silverstein’s towers at Ground Zero.

The Port is not expected to make a counter offer but instead will drill in for more details about developer Larry Silverstein’s proposal, which it views as largely smoke and mirrors, according to sources familiar with the negotiations.

Two weeks ago, Mr. Silverstein issued an agenda that included putting as much as $250 million of his own funds into the deal—up from an earlier offer of $50 million—and using all of his insurance money on just two towers instead of spreading it out over three. Additionally, in a move that would save about $262 million, Mr. Silverstein proposes building what is referred to in various development plans as Tower 3, instead of his more expensive Tower 2.

Among the details the Port wants to know is how soon Mr. Silverstein could come up with any of the funds he is pledging.

The Port has offered to backstop one tower but said it can’t afford to help with two, adding that it isn’t the job of a public agency to aid in financing private developments.

Conditions are ripe for a tense meeting. Last week, Mayor Michael Bloomberg praised Mr. Silverstein for offering several proposals and criticized the Port for the delays, challenging it to step up the plate and lay out ideas. And on Sunday 60 Minutes ran a segment on the rebuilding of Ground Zero that was very critical of the Port.

However, last month an arbitration panel found that the Port had fulfilled its primary obligations to Mr. Silverstein and gave the two until mid-March to come up with a construction schedule for the developer’s towers.

A spokesman for Mr. Silverstein declined comment and a Port spokesman couldn’t be immediately reached.
Filed Under :


Bugs

This whole thing was screwed ever since the beginning. Too many chiefs involved. Port Authority should have stfu and let the developer get the ball rolling. I can't believe public outcry is but a meer whisper.
Shame on everyone, and I mean everyone involved in this debacle. What an absolute mess this turned out to be. Hope they all wear this until they die.

This whole thing was screwed ever since the beginning. Too many chiefs involved. Port Authority should have stfu and let the developer get the ball rolling. I can't believe public outcry is but a meer whisper.
Shame on everyone, and I mean everyone involved in this debacle. What an absolute mess this turned out to be. Hope they all wear this until they die.

Agreed , why can't NYC stand up like other cities around the world and rebuild quickly, i can understand a year after it, if the families want to still grieve. But they continued to halt the project , even these days ,and its getting ridiculous.

Oh, this is a load of horseshit! Build it or bury it!

More fun games with Developer Larry!

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/05/nyregion/05wtc.html?ref=nyregion

The whole Freedom Tower/ new WTC project has been a big mess from the start.

Instead of insisting that Larry Silverstein stump up $625 million of his own money to help finace WTC2 and 3, they are now asking only $300 million. Far more than Silverstein's initial $50 million personal investment but close enough that Silverstein says he will study the proposal and see if he can meet it. Assuming he can, the Port Authority might be able to swing a note and get the last two towers underway.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704511304575076062580082090.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTWhatsNewsCollection

Come on Bloomberg, stop teasing us! :lol:

Perhaps he's reading this topic too. ;)

It should be similar design as 1 WTC that is currently under construction but without a spire

2WTC will be built in 10 years at this pace !

God, I hope they won't end up getting rid of 2WTC...to me Foster's tower is way prettier than 3WTC, I love its design & I don't want it to get modified or worse, cancelled...NO WAY!!!

I'm not into 3WTC as far as I'm concerned, they should dump it and ask for a new project instead.

The whole WTC development CANNOT do without 2WTC, it's been entirely part of it from day 1 and MUST be built!:)

DEAL NEAR!

http://gothamist.com/2010/03/25/port_authority_silverstein_agree_to.php

^^ Well, sort of... but good to see a resolution. This means the Calatrava hub shouldn't require any redesign either.

From wtcprogress.com, JOINT STATEMENT ON WORLD TRADE CENTER DEVELOPMENT PLAN
Date: Mar 25, 2010


"Tower 2: The Tower 2 site would be built to at least street level under a plan to be jointly developed by the Port Authority and Silverstein Properties. This plan would preserve flexibility for the future development of the office tower driven by market demand."

^^ Well, sort of... but good to see a resolution. This means the Calatrava hub shouldn't require any redesign either.

From wtcprogress.com, JOINT STATEMENT ON WORLD TRADE CENTER DEVELOPMENT PLAN
Date: Mar 25, 2010


"Tower 2: The Tower 2 site would be built to at least street level under a plan to be jointly developed by the Port Authority and Silverstein Properties. This plan would preserve flexibility for the future development of the office tower driven by market demand."

Yeah, I changed my post. It looks like Silverstein may indeed shelve Tower 2 while going forward on WTC3. They might even fill the hole in while they wait for conditions to change. Either way, getting a deal finished with the Port Authority will pave the way for work to proceed as the economy improves instead of being on that calendar of endless bickering.

I don't understand why people keep saying Silverstein will scrap Tower 2. The infrastructure will be built up to street level, and a few years down the line when loans and tenants return, they can finish it.

It's a good sign that the PA and Silverstein Prop have agreed to build the below grade works to the original specs. That lessens the chance of a redesign or abandoning it altogether.

But I'm skeptical of them actually finishing it this decade. Unless the economy really takes off and vacancies tighten up. There is a lot of space available in the other WTC towers to fill before 2WTC is warranted.

so be it. our only hope is that the US- economy will recover sooner than later (yes, a chinese wants that :D, for the sake of skyscrapers!). 2TWC is still my favourite tower, it would be a huge loss for NYC if they don't build it.

Here is an important quote from THE ARCHITECTS NEWSPAPER originally posted by HK999.

Janno Lieber, President of World Trade Center Properties for Silverstein, said he expects the private sector will respond favorably to this support, and the building will be completed by 2015, two years after Fumihiko Maki’s Tower 4 and SOM's Tower 1 (aka the Freedom Tower). “We’re going to let the marketplace decide that, but I think there is demand,” he said.

Should the project not find funding, Silverstein will still be required to complete the tower up through the first few floors, which will house much of the utilities for the PATH station. The timeline for Tower 2 has been pushed back indefinitely, though the developer is now required to at least complete it up through the ground level.

One area that was not on the table during the cost-cutting phases was the architecture. Asked whether Silverstein had considered pairing back the designs to save money, as has happened on projects like the Atlantic Yards arena, Leiber said no. “The Richard Rogers tower for Tower 3 is the building we’re going to execute,” Lieber said. “And when we get to Tower 2, it is are expectation that that will still be the work of Norman Foster.”

Here is the Link:

http://www.archpaper.com/e-board_rev.asp?News_ID=4371

Bugs

Bugs

Everything in NYC is a big mess. Remember when they were building the stadiums? I'd say this will get done in over a decade's time.

since I live here I can tell you it is not and what studiums are you referring to? Don't speak for NYC the progress over the pass 6 years speaks for itself

Everything in NYC is a big mess. Remember when they were building the stadiums? I'd say this will get done in over a decade's time.

You have obviously never been to NYC

so be it. our only hope is that the US- economy will recover sooner than later (yes, a chinese wants that :D, for the sake of skyscrapers!). 2TWC is still my favourite tower, it would be a huge loss for NYC if they don't build it.

Yes I agree it would. Though lower Manhatten is great, there are too many stumpy, fat skyscrapers there. It really needs some tall skinny ones like WTC 2 with some 'soar' factor to balance things out.

Yes I agree it would. Though lower Manhatten is great, there are too many stumpy, fat skyscrapers there. It really needs some tall skinny ones like WTC 2 with some 'soar' factor to balance things out.

Agree, the skyline would look better with a few "spikes" up :)

Here are some encouraging words:

Silverstein's president of World Trade Center properties Janno Lieber adds that there are a number of other reasons why developers are bullish on Downtown. For one, he points out that despite a soured economy, Downtown has the lowest vacancy of any commercial business district in the nation. The national average is 16.3 percent. The vacancy rate in Midtown is currently 10.5 percent.

The neighborhood also benefits from a wide variety of stock. Over 65 percent of Manhattan’s office stock is 50 years old or more. And, since downtown was the principal business district in Manhattan until the years of the Great Depression, its stock of older buildings is disproportionately higher.

And as a result of 9/11, the area lost 14 million square feet of class A office space. The new office space that is being built and the vintage buildings in the area serve different markets. As Leiber says, “Companies that are willing to relocate into a 60- or 70-year-old building are not the same firms that will sign a lease at the new World Trade Center site.”

From:http://www.portfolio.com/business-news/portfolio/2010/04/01/lower-manhattan-real-estate-hits-the-skids

Bugs

Eventually all four towers will be built. Here's a nice video of the site:

http://www.wtc.com/media/videos/Completing%20the%20Vision%20Animation

Well WTC 1 and 4 will be finished long before 2 and 3, sadly, but hey, look at the bright side, WTC1 and 4 will be kind of "Twins" as long as the other towers aren't rising :)

^^ Excellent video. But I don't think that WTC2 should have its best side, from where the diamonds face out, facing towards Liberty Island. Who is going to be able to appreciate it from that angle, except tourists visiting the statue of liberty and the fishes in the sea? It should be facing the other way so that its most flattering side is visible from middle and upper manhatten, or Brooklyn.

Who is going to be able to appreciate it from that angle, except tourists visiting the statue of liberty and the fishes in the sea?

The millions who are expected to visit the memorial?

^^ You won't be able to see much of the diamonds from that close to the tower, it's too tall. The optimal viewing position for it it will be, unfortunately, somewhere in the sea.

The Statue of Liberty, Ellis Island, Liberty State Park and the New Jersey Turnpike Ext. will be perfect viewing points.

Bugs

The entire site plan is somewhat centered around the Statue of Liberty, so that makes sense.

New York lost power in term of high building!!!!!!!!!!!

The millions who are expected to visit the memorial?

let me ask you a question. why would somebody be visiting the memorial from the Statue of Liberty? No that not a question more like a remake to what you said. Cus it didn't make sense

Nothing really new in this article that hasn't been posted before, but...


Planned World Trade Center Tower Is Still Up In the Air
By Matt Dunning
UPDATED Apr. 14

The recent announcement of a new construction agreement between the Port Authority and developer Larry Silverstein brings new hope for construction progress at the World Trade Center site. But one key project in the redevelopment of the site—Silverstein’s shimmering, diamond-crowned Tower 2—remains in construction purgatory.

The 78-story tower has been put off indefinitely, the victim of a lending market slow to recover from its collapse in 2008. And both the Port Authority and Silverstein Properties say it could be months before a decision is made on what to do with the site, now a barren dirt lot at Church and Vesey Streets.

“There have been discussions on what that site might become if there’s a longer-term [wait] for that tower, but it would be premature at this point to say what that would be,” the Port Authority’s executive director, Christopher Ward told a Community Board 1 committee on Monday. Ward appeared together with Janno Lieber, Silverstein’s top executive for World Trade Center projects, for the first time since announcing their long-awaited agreement last month.

During the committee meeting, Ward said the Port Authority would move forward with construction of the tower’s foundation up to street level, largely to facilitate construction and, eventually, access to the underground transportation center and retail complex. Above ground, Ward said the structure would support whatever building goes on top, whether it is British architect Lord Norman Foster’s Tower 2, or a more modest project, depending on the demands of the market.



the rest of the article,
http://www.tribecatrib.com/news/2010/april/576_planned-wtc-tower-is-still-up-in-the-air.html

Any news on this tower?

Apparently it is on hold for quite a while and will be. :(

The millions who are expected to visit the memorial?

Exactly right, and the "diamonds" are referencing or pointing towards the memorial.

http://www.wtc.com/uploads/images/712x534/15_01_Tower2ConceptualDesigns.jpg

Hi-Res 1.77mb (http://www.wtc.com/utils/Download.aspx?file=/uploads/images/hi-res/15_01_Tower2ConceptualDesigns.jpg) (From wtc.com)

^^ cool, i didn't know that. just another argument that 2WTC has to be built. :D.

Funny picture. All the other buildings seem in correct perspective, except 2WTC. It seems to lean over to make someones point. The truth is you probably could not see the diamond shapes from the memorial. Battery park? Yes.

It won't be break neck tall. And nobody cares what the design since so much has change.

can't believe noone posted this amazing news yet!!

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/progress_on_all_wtc_sites_at_last_nW7hCiyDPeiNOIbiZjri9I

'Building' momentum

Progress on all WTC sites - at last.

A major milestone will be reached at Ground Zero next month when every project within the original World Trade Center site will be under construction -- a heartening leap forward for a venture that's been plagued by constant delays.

The push comes as a result of a tentative deal between the Port Authority and developer Larry Silverstein -- bitter enemies throughout most of the construction project, but now acting like team players.

Silverstein is moving forward even before a final pact is signed to start work on Tower 2 and Tower 3, which he plans to build to at least ground level even if he can't finish the structures immediately.

Silverstein's Tower 4 is well above street level, with steel reaching the sixth floor and expectations that the pace will pick up this summer.

Foundation work has already begun on Tower 3, where Silverstein will build its five-story base -- and follow with the complete building once he has leased a minimum amount of space inside.

Work to build Tower 2 up to grade will begin this summer.

All of Silverstein's towers are crucial, since they contain mechanical systems shared with the transit hub and retail concourses.

"There is no question we are seeing real progress and momentum, but now is not the time for celebration. Now is the time to keep our heads down and keep the momentum going," said Port Authority Executive Director Chris Ward.

On the western half of the site, the Freedom Tower, now called 1 WTC, is roughly 25 stories high and will hit 50 stories by the end of the year.

Just to the south, the memorial is nearing completion. Over 99 percent of its steel is in place and the two enormous pools in the footprints of the Twin Towers are now being lined with granite.

The memorial will open on Sept. 11, 2011, complete with its forest of 400 trees.

One of the attractions for visitors to the memorial will be the bird's eye view of construction, said memorial president Joseph Daniels.

"It's good to see the other projects around the site moving ahead," he said.

yeah this one getting work on is the biggest suprise looking forward to this thread moving soon

It will finally start construction, great news !

Wow! I didn't think this one would start until next year at the earliest. Great News. Despite only being built to grade, at least the "hole" will be gone.

Most estimates put the completion of the lower levels (i.e. up to grade) at least 1.5 years from now. There is a very good chance Silverstein will be able to line up some tenants by that time.

^^ "a very good chance" sounds very optimistic for me. He definitely has a good chance to find enough tenants for Tower 3, but it will be very hard to find enough tenants for both tower 3 and tower 2. Keep in mind that there's still a lot of vacant space in tower 1, too.

^^ "a very good chance" sounds very optimistic for me. He definitely has a good chance to find enough tenants for Tower 3, but it will be very hard to find enough tenants for both tower 3 and tower 2. Keep in mind that there's still a lot of vacant space in tower 1, too.

it will take some years before 2 and 3WTC reach the streetlevel. till then everything is possible. the market and the economy in general will improve, so i'm quite optimistic that silverstein will find enough tenants. downtown manhattan is experiencing the beginning of a small boom, f.e. lots of people are moving there as residential towers are popping up.

That's exciting news!!! I was afraid it might never get built... Glad it will be built soon! :)

That's great news indeed, 2 WTC is to me the most beautiful tower of all (but they're all nice though), I really look forward to seeing it take shape :).

1 WTC: 1966–1972
2 WTC: 1966–1973
3 WTC: 1980–1981
4, 5, & 6 WTC: 1975–1979
7 WTC: 1985–1987
I bet eventually the new towers will be built.

the other towers were planed later much later unlike this project

What does being built 'up to grade' mean? Is it up to ground level?

What does being built 'up to grade' mean? Is it up to ground level?

yes, and as Uaarkson explained, this means the completion of the lower levels. after that there are two possibilities:

- silverstein finds enough tenants to move in, i.e. he has to "lease a minimum amount of space", as stated in the article. he has about ~ 2 years to do so. if he succeeds, then 2WTC will be built to its full height.

- silverstein can't find enough tenants - 2WTC becomes a retail stump.

yes, and as Uaarkson explained, this means the completion of the lower levels. after that there are two possibilities:

- silverstein finds enough tenants to move in, i.e. he has to "lease a minimum amount of space", as stated in the article. he has about ~ 2 years to do so. if he succeeds, then 2WTC will be built to its full height.

- silverstein can't find enough tenants - 2WTC becomes a retail stump.

2WTC would be a retail stump for a maximum of five years. Within that time, there will be demand for this tower.

yes, and as Uaarkson explained, this means the completion of the lower levels. after that there are two possibilities:

- silverstein finds enough tenants to move in, i.e. he has to "lease a minimum amount of space", as stated in the article. he has about ~ 2 years to do so. if he succeeds, then 2WTC will be built to its full height.

- silverstein can't find enough tenants - 2WTC becomes a retail stump.

I think you're referring to 3WTC. 2WTC can wait. Silverstein needs to fill up 7, 4, and then 3WTC. Their is no hurry. They'll all be built. They don't have to all finish at once.

When did they say they'd start contructing this tower?